| 00:00.00 | Battaglin | thanks debian..this is awesome |
| 00:00.03 | Battaglin | wohoo |
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| 00:01.11 | wgertler | it's a good idea to back my documents up before attempting the upgrade, yeah? |
| 00:01.20 | Battaglin | wgertler: always |
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| 00:01.31 | lembron | no... the good idea is to have backups in place already ;-) |
| 00:01.41 | wgertler | fair enough haha |
| 00:03.09 | jasonwc | It appears the servers are still updating. I only see a handful of the DVD images and it's missing all the main BD Images |
| 00:03.11 | magic_ninja_work | there aren't any updates at the moment, though, right? |
| 00:03.24 | magic_ninja_work | I've been tracking Sid as Buster. |
| 00:04.01 | Battaglin | Id hoped Budgie was among desktop choices .-( |
| 00:04.40 | Sveta | just do not install a desktop, and install budgie package later from the commandline |
| 00:04.52 | Battaglin | yeah |
| 00:04.54 | jasonwc | There should be no surprises since the contents of the testing repo are simply renamed as stable today. Debian has been in a freeze since March |
| 00:04.55 | tabakhase | could someone poke the guy in charge of tagging on docker-hub? - there is a "buster" thats one month old and no "10" tag |
| 00:04.58 | tabakhase | thanks :P |
| 00:05.36 | Battaglin | 1st thing .. apt update :D |
| 00:05.40 | Battaglin | hehe |
| 00:06.15 | magic_ninja_work | I can't help but be in love with Plasma. |
| 00:06.26 | magic_ninja_work | I guess I'm too used to windows for the last few years. It perfectly fits my workflow. |
| 00:07.39 | *** part/#debian manolo (~manolo@125.pool85-55-203.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 00:07.43 | cthonic | Battaglin, Budgie is pretty close package-wise to the default GNOME as well. On a fresh install it seems to add ~8 packages to install budgie-desktop. |
| 00:08.39 | tfg3 | Does debian still ship Qtopia? |
| 00:08.44 | tfg3 | Or Opie |
| 00:08.54 | tfg3 | What do I need to APT-GET |
| 00:09.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1508] by debhelper |
| 00:09.34 | Battaglin | bash: reboot: command not found |
| 00:09.37 | Battaglin | wth |
| 00:09.54 | Battaglin | cthonic: yeah.. I like budgie over gnome a lot though |
| 00:09.55 | jasonwc | So, I think those notifications are just to ensure that you don't accidentally update your system by accident from one stable release to another |
| 00:10.03 | Sveta | Battaglin, run it as sudo ? |
| 00:10.20 | Battaglin | Sveta: dont even work as root |
| 00:10.20 | jasonwc | E: Repository 'http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease' changed its 'Suite' value from 'testing' to 'stable' |
| 00:10.23 | Battaglin | hehe |
| 00:10.31 | Battaglin | weird |
| 00:10.41 | jasonwc | It makes you manually accept each change and then afterwards, you can run apt update without error |
| 00:10.47 | cthonic | Battaglin, seems budgie would bring in a lot of GNOME based on those numbers. But it is true that you'd get the rest of GNOME as well |
| 00:11.01 | Sveta | jasonwc, I'm glad it allows you to proceed, I don't know whether this is intended behaviour |
| 00:11.31 | jasonwc | If you had your sources.list point to stable rather than stretch, the alternative would be updating your entire system without necessarily realizing the choise you are making. This would be particularly problematic if the update was through unattended-updates |
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| 00:12.49 | jasonwc | I think I know why too |
| 00:12.53 | jasonwc | " Previous versions of unattended-upgrades defaulted to installing only upgrades that came from the security suite. In buster it now also automates upgrading to the latest stable point release. For details, see the package's NEWS.Debian file. " |
| 00:12.55 | tfg3 | What happens when stable goes away? |
| 00:13.17 | nohop | You guys aware that the "Debian 10 \"buster\" released" link on debian.org is broken? |
| 00:13.24 | jasonwc | tfg3, It becomes oldstable |
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| 00:14.04 | jasonwc | tfg3, Debian releases are supported by the Debian security team for approximately 3 years, and another 2 years from the LTS team. There is even Extended LTS support for select packages. |
| 00:14.09 | ssgelm | nohop: itâs in the middle of being pushed out |
| 00:14.10 | jasonwc | tfg3, So, you get approximately 5 years of support |
| 00:14.22 | nohop | ssgelm: I'm eager! :) |
| 00:14.32 | Deihmos | Is buster expected this year? |
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| 00:14.36 | Battaglin | ./sbin/reboot |
| 00:14.39 | Battaglin | hah |
| 00:14.45 | nohop | Deihmos: Yeah. Minutes from now, I guess. |
| 00:14.46 | jasonwc | Sveta, I'm pretty sure it's intended behavior to protect unexpected surprises - particularly from the new unattended-updates behavior |
| 00:15.05 | jasonwc | Sveta, It would be quite bad for your system to be automatically updated to a new stable release without your knowledge. |
| 00:15.10 | Sveta | ok |
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| 00:15.35 | jasonwc | Sveta, See 2.2.4 in the Buster release notes |
| 00:16.20 | TimWolla | tabakhase, you can poke the Docker Hub guy in #docker-library ;) |
| 00:16.41 | TimWolla | He's a Debian Developer though, I guess he'll be aware. |
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| 00:17.25 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch | Debian Buster: /msg dpkg buster ; /msg dpkg stretch->buster | Oldstable: Debian Jessie, jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 00:17.48 | tfg3 | So you can pay for support? |
| 00:17.56 | *** join/#debian geoca (ae5e395f@ktnron061lw-grc-02-174-94-57-95.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:17.57 | tfg3 | I thought Debian was free? |
| 00:18.34 | jasonwc | tfg3, It is free. |
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| 00:19.15 | jasonwc | tfg3, The LTS and Extended LTS support is free. Certain organizations that need longer support periods sponsor packages and pay for the time required to prepare security updates. However, the updates are available to everyone. |
| 00:19.30 | jasonwc | tfg3, For most users, 5 years should be plenty. |
| 00:19.35 | tfg3 | Is that for the science? |
| 00:19.49 | tfg3 | 5 years? Is that all? |
| 00:20.31 | phogg | 5 years for free |
| 00:20.39 | jasonwc | If you need 10 years of updates, you're probably going to be running CentOS/RHEL or openSUSE |
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| 00:21.06 | phogg | It's a pretty sweet deal; the only other way I know of to get 5 years for free is to go to prison. |
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| 00:21.28 | tfg3 | Where do I get the debian 4 for HITACHI SH3 |
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| 00:23.11 | geoca | Hi. Why does debian create such a large swap partition when using guided partitioning? |
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| 00:23.22 | Battaglin | https://imgur.com/a/GNZkmi1 |
| 00:23.25 | Battaglin | not bad :-)) |
| 00:23.50 | Battaglin | Sveta: ./sbin/reboot |
| 00:25.51 | dstaring | If you type "apt-check" in your Debian, what does it output? (Possibly have to run /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check ) |
| 00:26.08 | magic_ninja_work | tfg3, i don't see it for the sh3 architecture, just the sh4 |
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| 00:29.08 | cthonic | geoca, Seems to use the old 2x RAM rule of thumb. |
| 00:29.19 | tfg3 | SH4 is Dreamcast, right |
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| 00:29.34 | tfg3 | Debian 3 supports SH4, I think |
| 00:29.39 | tfg3 | where do you see Debian 4? |
| 00:29.58 | jasonwc | I have 128GB Of RAM on my server. That would be pretty silly. |
| 00:30.32 | tfg3 | On ec2? |
| 00:31.18 | tfg3 | It's not just SH4 https://wiki.debian.org/SH4 |
| 00:31.28 | dstaring | Dreamcast had 16 MB. |
| 00:31.37 | dstaring | Anyone seeing my question? |
| 00:31.39 | cthonic | jasonwc, I wonder if there is a cap on the 2x RAM default? Or if you'd get 256GB that would use a few M every so often? |
| 00:32.59 | Deihmos | I just did a New install. I think I should have used buster instead |
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| 00:33.29 | phogg | 2x RAM no longer makes sense for typical amounts of RAM. Go with no more than 1x, or less if you don't care about hibernation. |
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| 00:35.15 | tfg3 | Why isn't the dreamcast mentioned on the Wiki anymore? |
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| 00:40.55 | cthonic | tfg3, how many Dreamcasts are actively being used with Debian? Seems as if developer hardware might be scarce in many markets |
| 00:41.18 | tfg3 | I still have one... |
| 00:41.29 | tfg3 | There are other laptops with SH4 too |
| 00:42.02 | Warcop | #releaseparty yay |
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| 00:44.41 | tfg3 | Microsoft still supports them: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/embedded/ms925513(v=msdn.10) |
| 00:45.07 | tfg3 | Was that hashtag releaseparty? |
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| 00:48.36 | tfg3 | http://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/hpcsh/ |
| 00:48.54 | tfg3 | http://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/hpcsh/hpcsh_support_status/ |
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| 00:52.09 | Battaglin | nice lamp done.. I can go to bed now |
| 00:52.17 | Battaglin | l8r.. and thanks all debian folk |
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| 00:57.43 | jasonwc | cthonic, I'm not sure. I use ZFS as my root file system, so I install with debootstrap and manually partition |
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| 00:58.29 | jasonwc | cthonic, I'm not even using a swap partition |
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| 01:01.06 | tomreyn | Congratulations on turning 10, dear Debian. |
| 01:01.35 | tfgbd_ | Is that all it is? |
| 01:01.56 | tfgbd_ | 'Topic is 'Happy 26th birthday NetBSD! ' |
| 01:02.17 | tomreyn | 10th release, certainly not 10 years ;) |
| 01:02.26 | ectospasm | Debian is older than ten years old. |
| 01:02.27 | tfgbd_ | ohh, whew |
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| 01:02.46 | tfgbd_ | It's on 10 already? |
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| 01:03.28 | tomreyn | 10th release is also wrong, it's just the major release number |
| 01:03.41 | tomreyn | https://www.debian.org/distrib/archive |
| 01:04.09 | jasonwc | The initial release was Sep 1993, so almost 26 years |
| 01:05.15 | annadane | 1993, so we're in year 26 |
| 01:05.26 | annadane | ah |
| 01:05.29 | annadane | i kant reed |
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| 01:09.29 | jasonwc | heh, not bad. I seeded debian-10.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso to a ratio of 6 in an hour |
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| 01:13.56 | dstaring | That's got to be a joke. You support DREAMCAST (as in the 1998 video game console?) but not RPI generation 1? |
| 01:14.00 | dstaring | If you type "apt-check" in your Debian, what does it output? (Possibly have to run /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check ) |
| 01:15.48 | Nic_Wow | aye, to update my OS do I just change all mentions "stretch" to "buster" in '/etc/apt/sources.list' ? |
| 01:15.58 | tfgbd_ | I don't see THE Dreamcast there on their help pages |
| 01:16.07 | Nic_Wow | Should I be worried that it will break my system/apps? |
| 01:17.56 | jasonwc | dstaring, Rasbian is based on Debian, and the newest release for The RPi 4 is based on Buster. The Debian page indicates that it will work on all variants, including the first one (but it will not make the best use of the floating point hardware on the first version) |
| 01:18.01 | jasonwc | dstaring, See https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi |
| 01:18.30 | jasonwc | Rasbian includes non-free software, and I'm assuming, but could be wrong, that this is why support is better on Rasbian |
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| 01:19.34 | jasonwc | dstaring, Also, "The Raspberry Pi 1's processor falls uncomfortably between the processor families that Debian has chosen to target. While Raspbian solves this to some degree an unofficial port will always give less certainty than an official one. (This doesn' stand anymore for the Raspberry Pi 2) " |
| 01:20.35 | jasonwc | dstaring, Yeah, sounds like it does have some binary blobs - "A binary blob used by the GPU must be present on the SD card for the system to boot." + "3D acceleration is not integrated with X or other standard mechanisms and the Raspberry Pi Foundation don't seem to show any interest in doing so. Therefore 3D applications will require Pi specific builds." |
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| 01:22.14 | tfgbd_ | Don't bother with "official" debian. Just use the latest rasbian |
| 01:22.33 | binaryhermit | wait, debian buster runs on the dreamcast? really? |
| 01:22.38 | kwinto | nic_wow: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html |
| 01:22.42 | binaryhermit | or just an ancient debian |
| 01:22.47 | jasonwc | Yeah, there's no point. Rasbian is basically Debian custom-tailored for the Raspberry Pi |
| 01:23.04 | jasonwc | I've used a Rasbery Pi 2, 3, 3+, and will likely get a 4 soon |
| 01:23.44 | jasonwc | All have done what I've needed from them, although the 2 was rather slow. The 4 GB Rasberry Pi 4 seems pretty impressive. |
| 01:24.31 | tfgbd_ | I have the 6GB development board from Asus |
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| 01:27.37 | ZenWalker | welcome debian buster! \o/ |
| 01:27.38 | dstaring | jasonwc and tfgbd_: Here's the situation: I have a RPI generation 1 and have installed Raspbian on it. It runs, but the more I (attempt) to use it, the more I realize how they have changed tons of random stuff around, breaking even the most fundamental things such as being able to check (with a script) if there are new security updates required to manually deal with. Only after wasting countless $time_units did somebody finally tell me about |
| 01:27.38 | dstaring | "apt-check", which does exactly what I've been asking for... but only on "pure" Debian. On Raspbian, they have *deleted it*. Apparently. So Raspbian is worthless to me now. |
| 01:27.50 | rant | jasonwc: you're treading a dangerous line saying that |
| 01:28.21 | rant | jasonwc: armbian is as you described.. raspbian is a seperate distro just like ubuntu or such, its a complete and seperate repository |
| 01:28.52 | rant | armbian however is only an installer and repos with kernels and hw support packages, it actually uses debian repos |
| 01:29.20 | rant | the modification and seperate maint of the packages is what makes the difference |
| 01:29.59 | echeveria | rant: armbian has some goofy changes to bash, doesn't it? |
| 01:29.59 | dstaring | My RPI has spent 5 years in the storage space, only getting to visit the outside room every so often when I attempt to use it for something, only to go back in there soon after... |
| 01:30.13 | rant | echeveria: it can't it doesnt have bash in its repos |
| 01:30.39 | dstaring | Other than the lack of basic security, it also has no support for disk encryption, which also makes things even more annoying... |
| 01:31.12 | echeveria | rant: I swear it had a couple of goofy things changes in the default bashrc |
| 01:31.24 | rant | echeveria: https://apt.armbian.com/pool/main/ |
| 01:31.35 | rant | echeveria: bashrc is not bash, thats site configuration |
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| 01:32.06 | rant | echeveria: they include a couple support packages that do stuff like hardware monitoring, which puts info into the bashrc for displaying stats whne you login |
| 01:32.17 | rant | there isnt even a pool/main/b/ on their repository |
| 01:32.24 | ryouma | is it legit to upgrade to buster from stretch using apt-get instead of apt? |
| 01:32.31 | rant | they have but a handful of packages and they're all specific to the hardware |
| 01:32.34 | ryouma | ae there differences from jessie to stretch? |
| 01:32.59 | rant | ryouma: you should always read the release notes and follow the instructions in the Ch4 on upgrades |
| 01:33.17 | rant | ryouma: apt and apt-get do behave slightly differently.. but for the most part, yes, you could use either |
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| 01:33.48 | ryouma | ravioli: the upgrade part is ambiguous on teh question of whether apt-get is usable /for upgrade/ as opposed to a general note |
| 01:34.05 | ryouma | rant ^ |
| 01:34.09 | rant | two key differences in apt is the auto installation of recommends/suggests and removal of cached packages |
| 01:34.39 | rant | as far as resolution of dependencies however, its the same |
| 01:35.42 | rant | ryouma: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#upgradingpackages there is nothing even slightly ambiguous there.. it shows use of apt |
| 01:36.08 | ryouma | rant doesn't apt-get already install suggests at least? what is the difference? |
| 01:36.17 | rant | you can probably use apt-get with no issues, but the official stance is as it has always been, when upgrading, go to the release notes (chapter 4) on upgrades and follow the instructions |
| 01:37.17 | ryouma | rant the ambiguous part is if you want to use apt-get, the note is not clear if it is saying don't use apt for scripting as opposed to don't use apt-get for upgrading and here are the differences. |
| 01:37.19 | tfgbd_ | can't you just apt-get install apt-check |
| 01:38.09 | rant | ryouma: apt shouldnt be used for scripting based on its OUTPUT because its OUTPUT is not consistent.. same reason they say not to parse output of ls |
| 01:38.19 | ryouma | rant. agreed. however, there are those who have legacy settings for their apt-get upgrades, including for example conffile settings and so on. it is not clear whether you have to translate that over to apt or if youc an just run apt-get without modification. |
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| 01:38.34 | ryouma | rant yes that is what it says |
| 01:39.12 | rant | ryouma: you should be able to both safely use apt-get for the upgrade as well as safely replace apt-get with apt in scripts provided you are not parsing the OUTPUT of it |
| 01:39.44 | ryouma | rant so it is a drop in replacement with all those options and stuff? |
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| 01:40.30 | rant | ryouma: there are some slight differences as apt combines functionality of apt-get apt-cache and such |
| 01:41.08 | tfgbd_ | Not everybody's debian comes with apt |
| 01:41.16 | tfgbd_ | It might be too complicated for ARM |
| 01:41.31 | tfgbd_ | Does s360 get apt? |
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| 01:42.39 | ryouma | rant so yeah, there is nothing i've learned yet about whether i can use my existing apt-get call script |
| 01:43.22 | rant | tfgbd_: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/armel/apt/filelist |
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| 01:44.07 | rant | tfgbd_: its part of the apt package which contains the old utilities.. and s360 is not a supported architecture |
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| 01:44.57 | rant | afaik it never was |
| 01:45.08 | rant | s390 on the other hand was supported from 3-7 |
| 01:45.18 | tfgbd_ | Sorry, get those mixed up |
| 01:45.29 | rant | now only s390x is supported |
| 01:45.33 | tfgbd_ | Last time I checked, s390 was supported |
| 01:45.36 | tfgbd_ | ohh |
| 01:45.36 | rant | !s390 |
| 01:45.36 | dpkg | s390 is a port of Debian, which uses the Linux kernel on IBM System/390 (aka S/390, zSeries) mainframe hardware. It was previously a supported architecture from Debian 3.0 "Woody" until Debian 7 "Wheezy". It has been replaced by the <s390x> port. http://www.debian.org/ports/s390/ |
| 01:45.41 | ryouma | interesting. did not know that processor would affect apt |
| 01:45.41 | tfgbd_ | There is a difference? |
| 01:45.42 | rant | !s390x |
| 01:45.42 | dpkg | s390x is a port of Debian, which uses the Linux kernel and provides a 64-bit userland on IBM System/390 (aka S/390, zSeries) mainframe hardware. The s390x architecture was introduced at Debian 7 "Wheezy". |
| 01:46.02 | ryouma | i wish apt(1) were named so that it were not a confusion with the generic term |
| 01:46.14 | rant | tfgbd_: apparently its the change to a 64bit userland |
| 01:46.33 | *** join/#debian Gruub (~Puckles@208.98.182.92) |
| 01:46.46 | tfgbd_ | Ohh |
| 01:46.53 | tfgbd_ | Can those 50s things afford it? |
| 01:47.49 | *** join/#debian NicWow (~Nic-Wow@gateway/tor-sasl/nicwow/x-45982001) |
| 01:47.51 | ryouma | i'm gue4ssing those blasck and white cold war movies with large tape reels seeking back and forth are not relevant here |
| 01:48.37 | *** join/#debian areyouloco (~areyouloc@195.210.25.34) |
| 01:49.31 | areyouloco | i just got email from the mailing list that debian buster kust got stable. where can I get it? is it already pushed by ftpmasters? |
| 01:49.48 | rant | afaik s/390 is /technically/ a 32bit arch, but does support 64bit registers.. |
| 01:50.26 | rant | its a rare breed of 32bit machine that can run a 64bit userland on what is ultimately a 32bit processor |
| 01:50.51 | ryouma | what does 64 bit mean? address space? registers? what? |
| 01:50.58 | ryouma | instructions? |
| 01:51.12 | *** join/#debian Guest75 (b3db7329@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.179.219.115.41) |
| 01:51.13 | rant | typically in a real 64bit machine everything is 64bits.. the adress space, etc.. |
| 01:52.18 | rant | afaik s/390 are technically 32bit, and s390x are technically 32bit kernels with a 64bit userland.. but I never used any of these machines so I really have nfc |
| 01:52.47 | rant | the successor of the s390 was the zSeries which ARE 64 bit |
| 01:53.58 | *** join/#debian bla (~bla@unaffiliated/bla) |
| 01:54.21 | rant | ryouma: I have no idea what your apt-get call script is, or why you want to use it.. all I can say is what I've already said... the official support on the matter is to follow what the release notes say |
| 01:54.40 | rant | ryouma: if you wanna do it differently, thats up to you.. and you can ask questions if you run into trouble |
| 01:55.07 | ryouma | talking in circles about the note about apt-get int he release notes. thanks for your interest. |
| 01:55.38 | rant | but personally I wouldnt even try it unless I had a pretty damn good reason.. its just stubbornly doing something other than what is recommended without a need for it, is just silly |
| 01:56.36 | whislock | I haven't had the opportunity to mess with an S/390 in about 8 years. |
| 01:57.49 | rant | I seen one in a garage when I was doing some work for someone once.. it was gathering dust |
| 01:57.53 | *** join/#debian carneous (~carneous@telefrag.claustrophobopolis.com) |
| 01:58.17 | whislock | Used to manage a few of them. |
| 01:58.18 | tfgbd_ | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System/360 |
| 01:58.23 | tfgbd_ | Which Debian runs on these? |
| 01:58.25 | whislock | And a few of those. |
| 01:58.38 | rant | afaik S/360 was never supported by debian ever.. |
| 01:59.13 | ryouma | rant: again than youy for your interest. my question stands. |
| 01:59.32 | ryouma | but not to you at this time. but thank you.' |
| 01:59.46 | tfgbd_ | What does run on them? |
| 01:59.52 | tfgbd_ | Was s/350? |
| 02:00.09 | rant | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/24cc9c4466b416e9ae4b00d191f97355.png |
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| 02:02.16 | tfgbd_ | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Windows_CE_Timeline.svg |
| 02:02.28 | rant | the s/360 is some 60 year old relic that looks like the kind of thing you saw in old scifi film with red lights and switches |
| 02:02.42 | rant | its not really a computer in the modern sense :P |
| 02:03.12 | rant | afaik its not even a hardware spec as such |
| 02:03.30 | binaryhermit | ia64 is itanic, right |
| 02:03.36 | binaryhermit | err, itanium |
| 02:03.41 | rant | as we would know it today.. the s/360 spec assumes very little about the hw |
| 02:03.44 | rant | !ia64 |
| 02:03.44 | dpkg | Intel Itanium Architecture (formerly IA-64) is Intel's *other* 64-bit architecture. Itanium processors are primarily found in HP Integrity servers. http://www.debian.org/ports/ia64/ . Debian 8 ("Jessie") drops official support for Intel Itanium Architecture. It is not the same as the AMD64 / Intel 64 / x86-64 chips used in PCs, ask me about <amd64>. See also <qotd279>. |
| 02:05.00 | tfgbd_ | Oh no! |
| 02:05.06 | whislock | My mistake, I was working with S/370 analogues, not the 360. |
| 02:05.12 | tfgbd_ | Don't stop supporting i386 |
| 02:05.45 | themill | meh there's no hardware out there that needs it |
| 02:06.13 | binaryhermit | tfgbd_: *wince* |
| 02:06.26 | binaryhermit | and I doubt that i386 is going anywhere soon |
| 02:06.37 | tfgbd_ | i486 or i686 then |
| 02:07.10 | rant | really dropping ia64 was a bit premature judging by the official info from intel http://qdms.intel.com/dm/i.aspx/F65EEA26-13FB-4580-972B-46B75E0AB322/PCN116733-00.pdf but I suppose it wasnt used much and was a burden to continue supporting |
| 02:07.54 | tfgbd_ | Most of your userbase depends on i486 I think. |
| 02:08.20 | binaryhermit | actually, I think the linux kernel doesn't support 386 anymore |
| 02:08.30 | rant | yeah the i386 is a bit misleading we haven't actually supported a 386 in ages.. its not possible |
| 02:08.47 | binaryhermit | what's debian i386 compiled for |
| 02:08.51 | binaryhermit | guesses 686 |
| 02:09.22 | rant | yes we only support 686 or better as of right now from Stretch onward |
| 02:09.31 | rant | !i386 |
| 02:09.31 | dpkg | Debian's i386 port is for some subset of the 32-bit x86 instruction set as has grown organically over the years. From Debian 6 Squeeze onwards, only 586 machines and newer are supported, while from Debian 9 Stretch, only 686 processors will be supported. See http://deb.li/3yPPV |
| 02:12.36 | tfgbd_ | i386 is i686 to me |
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| 02:15.38 | rant | tfgbd_: are you under 25 years old? |
| 02:15.53 | tfgbd_ | maybe from some perspectives |
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| 02:16.06 | rant | heh.. thats ridiculous |
| 02:16.19 | Highdude | Hi, I'm running debian 10 install was a few months back |
| 02:16.28 | Highdude | i got this message with apt-get update |
| 02:16.30 | Highdude | E: Repository 'http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates InRelease' changed its 'Suite' value from 'testing' to 'stable' |
| 02:16.30 | Highdude | N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details. |
| 02:16.33 | tfgbd_ | I just use RISC machines |
| 02:16.41 | Highdude | how can i fix this |
| 02:16.45 | rant | if you were born in 1995 or later, that may be understandable |
| 02:17.30 | rant | I was manufactured in the early 80s so.. I know what a 8086, 286, 386, 486, 586, etc look and feel like |
| 02:17.32 | tfgbd_ | What if I remember 1992 TV? |
| 02:17.44 | rant | I had all of the above |
| 02:18.02 | tfgbd_ | I just emulate those on WinCE now. |
| 02:18.26 | carneous | Highdude: apt update |
| 02:18.55 | rant | ryouma: looks like you just missed an answer to your question ^^ :P |
| 02:19.03 | rant | it would seem there are other ways apt-get differs |
| 02:19.14 | Highdude | carneous I see, thank you! |
| 02:19.35 | *** join/#debian sebuba (~sebuba@unaffiliated/sebuba) |
| 02:19.40 | Highdude | i assume i obviously select yes instead of no |
| 02:20.03 | ryouma | rant: what Highdude said? maybe that is just the repo? |
| 02:20.54 | themill | Highdude: correct |
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| 02:21.13 | Highdude | awesome guys, i appreciate the help |
| 02:21.35 | rant | ryouma: http://paste.debian.net/1090539/ |
| 02:21.36 | Highdude | first time ive used a testing os that went to full release |
| 02:21.42 | Highdude | so was a little confused |
| 02:21.47 | Highdude | and google wasnt showing much |
| 02:21.54 | rant | ryouma: apt prompts for this, apt-get does not.. it requires some doing and reading to get around the issue |
| 02:22.25 | ryouma | sig checking of release file is an old feature right? or wrong? |
| 02:22.41 | Highdude | and why may i ask that apt-get doesnt prompt? |
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| 02:22.52 | ryouma | rant: huh, so apt-get just assumes yes? |
| 02:23.05 | Highdude | it assumes no, thats why it wont update |
| 02:23.21 | rant | ryouma: no it just errors out and expects you to RTFM and explicitly give it permission |
| 02:24.37 | *** join/#debian a0z (~a0z@80-44-20-215.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 02:24.49 | Highdude | oof |
| 02:24.53 | Highdude | asking people to RTFM |
| 02:25.02 | Highdude | what are you thinking :O |
| 02:25.20 | ryouma | or update, right? |
| 02:25.27 | rant | Highdude: as I told ryouma earlier the policy is the same as always.. you should read the release notes for the suite you're upgrading TO chapter 4 on upgrades, and follow the instructions.. they say to use apt |
| 02:25.31 | ryouma | i mean, if you uypdate it probably would not error or ask right? |
| 02:26.15 | Highdude | well rant, i wasnt quite upgrading |
| 02:26.33 | rant | Highdude: true.. me either I been using buster for months now |
| 02:26.39 | Highdude | i was already running latest stuff, i just decided to install a new package, literally did dist-upgrade yesterday |
| 02:26.55 | Highdude | yea, it gavve me new packages deb 9 didnt |
| 02:27.03 | Highdude | and i liked the new KDE look |
| 02:27.05 | Highdude | so i stuck with it |
| 02:27.17 | Highdude | it was originally for testing only, then i figured i would roll with it |
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| 02:27.37 | rant | Highdude: its one of several more recent security features added to the repositories and package managers is all.. its trying to protect you from breakage or unautorized packages |
| 02:27.50 | Highdude | i appreciate thaT |
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| 02:27.53 | Highdude | lol |
| 02:28.16 | ryouma | not a huge deal but i currently use https://termbin.com/laqgs for dist-upgrades |
| 02:28.35 | *** join/#debian Aussie_matt (~quassel@27-33-187-117.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 02:28.50 | rant | apt is now the newer superset frontend that is shipped in the apt package along with apt-get .. it combines the features of many older commands and adds some new conveniences like sorted formatted output and such |
| 02:29.13 | rant | so using it, will require less understanding of the changes |
| 02:29.23 | ryouma | i thought release file signing was not new. is it? |
| 02:29.56 | rant | not in this release, no.. but there were quite a few changes in our recent history |
| 02:30.00 | *** join/#debian whoami__ (~whoami@136.52.78.62) |
| 02:30.02 | Highdude | so which is better and more informational when upgrading apt or apt-get? |
| 02:30.10 | Highdude | or installing and wotnot |
| 02:30.13 | Highdude | just general all around |
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| 02:30.46 | Highdude | and are commands the same between the two or do they differ and i should pay more attention? |
| 02:30.52 | rant | to me, in Debian terms, our recent history is spanning 5 suites.. currently Jessie, Stretch, Buster, Bookworm, Sid |
| 02:30.54 | ryouma | with apt-get you can do --verbose-versions \ --show-upgraded \ but idk if you can also do in apt. apt-get has scriptable output. otherwise idk. |
| 02:31.14 | rant | and since buster JUST released, it would also arguably include things changed in Wheezy |
| 02:31.56 | ryouma | i thought it was possible that release file signing came in around wheezy or so but that could be wrong |
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| 02:32.10 | rant | ryouma: yes thats my vague recollection as well |
| 02:32.16 | ryouma | do i mean woody? |
| 02:32.28 | rant | we also in recent history changed compression, offered diffs of the updates.. etc |
| 02:32.39 | *** join/#debian Kira (~k_sze@unaffiliated/kira) |
| 02:32.49 | rant | many things have changed regarding how packages are distributed in recent years |
| 02:32.56 | *** join/#debian feelingsreal (~bitch@unaffiliated/feelingsreal) |
| 02:33.14 | tfgbd_ | how do I add a qemu fork to debian's repos? |
| 02:33.14 | tfgbd_ | It's for ARM and x86_64 (I think) |
| 02:33.21 | rant | for some odd reason I dont fully comprehend we are mirroring on the dark web :P |
| 02:33.37 | *** join/#debian jhutchins (~jonathan@136.34.212.57) |
| 02:34.03 | rant | I am beginning to understand a need for paranoia in computing cause there is a vast threat of data mining and privacy concerns.. but I dont see how knowing I use debian and what packages I download are an issue :P |
| 02:34.10 | *** join/#debian Arkaniad (~Arkaniad@24-230-63-25-dynamic.midco.net) |
| 02:34.30 | Highdude | because profiling |
| 02:34.31 | ryouma | i actually used tor+http and regular repos simultaneously because of an obscure vuln regardign rleases file but idr if that was due to it not being singed. common sense suggests it has beens igned forever. |
| 02:34.32 | tfgbd_ | Some people can't afford internet |
| 02:34.33 | Sveta | people should be aware of it and it should be opt-in, then it is not an issue |
| 02:34.34 | rant | I dont see publishing my apt/dpkg logs on a global public scale as an issue |
| 02:34.39 | Sveta | it also should be anonymous |
| 02:34.42 | Highdude | enough data and it can be used to piece your whole life together |
| 02:34.52 | Highdude | thne you have people target you and its weird sometimes |
| 02:35.18 | Sveta | if it is not anonymous, someone automatically knows you use debian for photo image processing, and this is probably something not every photographer wants the whole world to know |
| 02:35.32 | rant | you're preaching to the choir on the targetting and the reasons for it.. my life has been railroaded for some time due to such things |
| 02:35.43 | Sveta | what happened? |
| 02:36.01 | rant | not really a #debian kind of discussion |
| 02:36.03 | Highdude | he ended up on freenode |
| 02:36.04 | Highdude | :OO |
| 02:36.06 | rant | hah |
| 02:36.12 | ryouma | (i mean, for a while) |
| 02:36.19 | rant | I been on freenode since 2002-2003ish |
| 02:36.39 | Highdude | man i was still stoming around undernet and some other more private nets at that time |
| 02:37.06 | tfgbd_ | https://www.xnview.com/en/xnviewpocket.php |
| 02:37.09 | Highdude | when i think how long ive been on irc i feel old at times |
| 02:37.11 | Highdude | lol |
| 02:37.13 | Synaptic | buster released? |
| 02:37.30 | Highdude | yes |
| 02:37.33 | lembron | isnt the point of things like the tor mirror to provide better service for inside-tor-already users, rather then an explicit "putting them into tor" - as in, if you switch on tor to apt youre "doing it wrong" kinda deal.. ((how valid that is is another question)) |
| 02:37.37 | tfgbd_ | I've only been on since 2000 :( |
| 02:38.16 | Highdude | i started in about 95-97 when i was a youngster |
| 02:38.22 | Highdude | my dad showed me it and i loved it |
| 02:38.31 | Highdude | talk to people all around the world then, un heard of |
| 02:38.38 | Highdude | for a kid at least |
| 02:38.49 | *** join/#debian thelastjedi_ (~quassel@171.223.93.185) |
| 02:38.55 | rant | well for me, I had been using Win2k around that time, and went to a news site that had embedded video, fairly new stuff around the millenium.. embedding videos everywhere.. quired a WMP update which left me in a reboot loop, it was the last straw and I went to the store and bought RedHat for $24 and that sucked, so within the 2 years from 2000ish to 2002/2003ish when I wound up here I was searching for the |
| 02:39.01 | rant | right fit.. and I came across debian.org from distrowatch and saw the Why Debian? and Social Contract docs and I was sold. |
| 02:39.46 | rant | Debian's priorities, goals, and promises were mind blowing to me as a Windows refugee |
| 02:39.52 | tfgbd_ | I think my cult closed. Ain't no WinCE channels |
| 02:40.04 | Highdude | i played around with linux, speccifically redhat and suse around 2001 or so |
| 02:40.28 | Highdude | but didnt actually switch for desktop until around 2010 |
| 02:40.32 | Highdude | and only sometimes |
| 02:40.47 | Highdude | but then things happened, and times changed for me |
| 02:41.04 | Highdude | and then i found myself dissapointed in windows 7 when i was using it |
| 02:41.07 | Highdude | and started playing with ubuntu |
| 02:41.18 | Highdude | and only kindof turned back when win10 originally released |
| 02:41.24 | *** join/#debian Cabanoss- (~Cabanossi@ppp-88-217-79-127.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 02:41.25 | themill | searches for the Debian user support question |
| 02:41.30 | ryouma | lembron: sorry can you rephrase? |
| 02:41.33 | Highdude | they fixed the windows 7 issues, but it seemed like every update it was getting worse |
| 02:41.38 | Highdude | i got fed up and back to ubuntu |
| 02:41.44 | Highdude | then i learned more and tinkered |
| 02:41.56 | Highdude | and ubuntu wasnt for me, but i liked the base so i tried debian |
| 02:41.59 | Highdude | and now its my goto |
| 02:42.30 | Highdude | even for servers, i used to prefer centos. now i will take debian over anything if i can |
| 02:42.51 | rant | the one I had bought was RH 5.2 which was crap.. and from what RH fans have told me, they all seem to admit 5.2 was one of their worst releases.. I tried corel and it was worse, then I found Mandrake 7.x and stayed with it through 8.x it was nice and simple but I realized there was more to linux than I'd ever learn from such a poorly documented vaguely proprietary system (lot of their fancy gui tools were |
| 02:42.57 | rant | proprietary), so I went looking for the /right/ OS and I fooled a bit with slackware and it felt close to right but required too much time to configure. and then I found Debian and it had it all.. was well documented, fully open, ready to use out of the box, but allowed for the slackware level of config as desired. |
| 02:43.22 | rant | but I digress.. we could b.s. about this in #debian-offtopic :P |
| 02:44.30 | rant | Highdude: debian is nice in this regaurd do to overal sane priorities and WIDHE compliant binary packages ready to use |
| 02:45.37 | Highdude | lol |
| 02:45.39 | rant | though I suppose systemd was one that put the sanity into question.. I'm still not 100% comfortable with that.. |
| 02:45.54 | Highdude | i was just a kid trying to learn, and at the time my dad thought linux was the devil |
| 02:46.10 | Highdude | so it was hard, i had to beg to even let him allow me to get my own hdd and dual boot |
| 02:46.54 | rant | they didn't violate the Social Contract as such.. so I have been trying to make due.. but systemd overstepped its scope and boundaries as a sysvinit replacement and offered up more attack surface for bugs and security concerns.. its not ideal in that regard |
| 02:46.58 | themill | !apt suite changed |
| 02:46.58 | dpkg | If you were already using Debian 10 "Buster" prior to it being released as stable, apt complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change |
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| 02:47.37 | rant | themill: thanks |
| 02:48.25 | Highdude | i dont know much about systemd, but i do know i want my god damn log files back in human readable format! |
| 02:48.27 | Highdude | lol |
| 02:48.42 | tfgbd_ | You mean they aren't just .txt files? |
| 02:48.42 | Tom-_ | i think it's still possible to install sysvinit on Debian 10 |
| 02:49.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1495] by debhelper |
| 02:49.07 | Highdude | Tom-_ does it break other stuff though? |
| 02:49.08 | *** join/#debian de-facto (~de-facto@gateway/tor-sasl/de-facto) |
| 02:49.10 | Tom-_ | i checked on sid weeks ago I guess |
| 02:49.20 | rant | Highdude: only part of that that annoys me is the loss of /var/log/dmesg and the dependency on it would create issues in situations where the journald itself is broken |
| 02:49.25 | Highdude | and how much configuring of packages do you have to do if you do that |
| 02:49.30 | Tom-_ | Highdude, if systemd is still installed, but not running, i think everything still works out of the box |
| 02:49.43 | rant | Highdude: this is what I see as the real problem with systemd is to far reaching and integrated.. |
| 02:49.46 | Tom-_ | except maybe GNOME... I'll check |
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| 02:49.55 | tfgbd_ | Where is that ARM debian version: https://www.xnview.com/en/xnviewmp/ |
| 02:49.56 | Highdude | yea, i noticed that a few weeks back |
| 02:50.01 | Highdude | trying to do something with bind |
| 02:50.05 | *** mode/#debian [+o themill] by ChanServ |
| 02:50.22 | rant | as a sysvinit replacement its not really bad at all.. its just a bad idea to integrate that init replacement with all this other shit to the point it cant be differentiated anymore |
| 02:50.25 | Highdude | and i went the traditional steps i would, editing config files of bind |
| 02:50.34 | *** topic/#debian by themill -> Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 02:50.35 | Highdude | but systemd overrode my settings |
| 02:50.39 | *** mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill |
| 02:50.41 | Highdude | and i was nott too happy |
| 02:50.59 | themill | how about we return to user support now? |
| 02:51.26 | Highdude | thats a pretty awesome bot there |
| 02:52.34 | rant | Highdude: themill is like a bot, but squishier :P |
| 02:52.38 | whislock | Whinging about systemd is so 2014. |
| 02:52.49 | Highdude | lol i was talking about dpkg O.o |
| 02:52.55 | tfgbd_ | I just installed whatever debbootstrap installed |
| 02:53.02 | tfgbd_ | What version am I even on! (lol) |
| 02:53.05 | Highdude | whislock you calling me old? |
| 02:53.21 | themill | tfgbd_: you've got whatever release you told debootstrap to install |
| 02:53.23 | Tom-_ | denouncing systemd is normal and acceptable |
| 02:53.34 | rant | tfgbd_: debootstrap doesnt do anything its not told to do.. you have to specify the mirror and suite |
| 02:53.53 | tfgbd_ | Someone else specified the mirror |
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| 02:55.20 | rant | tfgbd_: that program looks almost EXACTLY like digiKam.. so much so I can't really point out any difference |
| 02:56.17 | *** join/#debian frgo (~frgo@p5B0B74F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:56.19 | whislock | Tom-_: You misspelled "tired and overdone." |
| 02:57.37 | rant | tfgbd_: other than the obvious, digiKam is in debian https://i.imgur.com/pMfQCCK.png |
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| 02:58.52 | rant | I was testing it out yesterday to see if I could get it to recognize the difference between Avril Lavigne, Taylor Swift, Hayley Williams and my father's dog :P |
| 02:59.13 | rant | I was not impressed with its facial recognition/auto tagging abilities |
| 02:59.19 | tfgbd_ | Does digikam do mass batch conversion? |
| 03:01.06 | rant | tfgbd_: among other things https://i.imgur.com/sHcuU0E.png |
| 03:01.42 | rant | tfgbd_: its batch manager can do any number of things, rename, convert, edit, etc.. and the digikam then maintains all modified versions of the same file linked to the original |
| 03:02.11 | rant | its an all around batch manager can do any number of things all in one |
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| 03:02.16 | tfgbd_ | https://www.xnview.com/assets/img/screenshots/xnviewpocket-02.png |
| 03:02.25 | tfgbd_ | https://www.xnview.com/assets/img/screenshots/xnviewpocket-03.png |
| 03:02.33 | tfgbd_ | https://www.xnview.com/assets/img/screenshots/xnviewpocket-04.png |
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| 03:04.29 | rant | however a gui is hardly needed for basic batch operations like conversion |
| 03:04.45 | rant | a simple imagemagic command with a glob will solve that |
| 03:05.15 | tfgbd_ | I don't want the command line on my tiny thing |
| 03:06.05 | tfgbd_ | https://www.xnview.com/en/xnviewpocket.php#downloads |
| 03:06.29 | rant | I had a pocketpc once.. back when it wasn't 2019 and you couldnt get any of a number of old gen devices far more powerful :P |
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| 03:06.56 | tfgbd_ | Does digiKam support ARM and SH3? |
| 03:07.10 | Tom-_ | Highdude, i have to check more, it doesn't seem probable at this point |
| 03:07.11 | tfgbd_ | old gen devices? |
| 03:07.11 | rant | my current handheld is a Galaxy S7 without a sim card.. my only gripe is the stock android rom on it.. ugh.. the hardware is great :D |
| 03:07.33 | tfgbd_ | Is there anything cool like XNView Pocket for Android? |
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| 03:07.41 | mojikun | hey |
| 03:07.51 | rant | tfgbd_: i.e. I'm using a Galaxy S7 as my handheld pc.. and the latest I believe is the S10 |
| 03:07.59 | mojikun | is there an official way to upgrade from debian 9 to 10 yet? |
| 03:08.07 | rant | you can get older gen handhelds cheap and they're plenty capable |
| 03:08.19 | tfgbd_ | I got the HD2 for $30 |
| 03:08.24 | rant | mojikun: there has been an official way to do that for a LONG time now |
| 03:08.45 | rant | mojikun: however its officially released as stable, and all the details are in the channel topic |
| 03:09.30 | tfgbd_ | rant: Do you have debian on your Galaxy S7? |
| 03:09.44 | mojikun | rant, i ask because the stable was released just today. |
| 03:09.54 | mojikun | wouldnt do an upgrade to the unreleased version |
| 03:09.57 | tabakhase | a topic update? nice, now we just need dockerHub :P |
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| 03:10.26 | rant | tfgbd_: buster (testing) (graphics): digital photo management application for KDE 4:5.9.0-1+b1: amd64 arm64 armel armhf i386 mips mips64el mipsel ppc64el s390x |
| 03:10.37 | tabakhase | seems like that guy may be EU tho... so i wont cry until like another 12h... (5am centralEU) |
| 03:10.53 | rant | tfgbd_: I tried it as a guest, but wasn't impressed with that.. guests on such a small device are annoying.. and its not real hacker friendly for changing the native software |
| 03:11.04 | mojikun | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:11.12 | rant | mojikun: no space before the / |
| 03:11.30 | mojikun | yeah i figured |
| 03:11.40 | tabakhase | !apt suite changed |
| 03:11.40 | dpkg | If you were already using Debian 10 "Buster" prior to it being released as stable, apt complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change |
| 03:11.41 | tabakhase | or this |
| 03:12.12 | mojikun | !dpkg stretch |
| 03:12.12 | dpkg | Stretch is the codename for the current <oldstable> release, Debian 9, released 2017-06-17. "Stretch" is the rubber octopus in Toy Story 3, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianStretch . Ask me about <install stretch>, <release notes>, <jessie->stretch>. |
| 03:12.19 | mojikun | !dpkg stretch->buster |
| 03:12.20 | dpkg | Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> http://deb.li/JFKc . TL;DR: In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "stretch" to "buster", remove stable-specific lines like stretch-backports. apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade. 3rd party repos like <dmo> are known to cause problems with the upgrade. |
| 03:12.37 | rant | tfgbd_: idk wth the SH3 is, but the sid version of digikam mentions SH4 |
| 03:12.59 | rant | erm no, thats a debports for sh4 |
| 03:13.03 | rant | !sh3 |
| 03:13.06 | rant | !sh4 |
| 03:13.09 | mojikun | what is dmo? never heard of third party repos. ubuntu has ppas but on debian never heard any |
| 03:13.10 | rant | shrugs |
| 03:13.22 | Tom-_ | !dmo |
| 03:13.22 | dpkg | We recommend against using deb-multimedia.org; these unofficial packages are known to cause many hard to debug problems. They are not in Debian either because the they are poor in quality or for legal reasons. See http://deb-multimedia.org/ or ask me about <dmm stretch>, <dmm buster>. See also <dmm list>, <dmm mirrors>, <dmm pinning>, <why not dmm>, <dmm remove>. |
| 03:13.44 | mojikun | oh. never used that |
| 03:13.50 | rant | mojikun: dmo was put together many years ago when we had lots of issues like dvd encryption, mp3 libs..etc.. that were not available in debian |
| 03:14.00 | rant | its HIGHLY RECOMMENDED AGAINST now |
| 03:14.17 | rant | as it could result in a great deal of breakage and is largely no longer needed |
| 03:14.18 | mojikun | i never needed it. mpv and vlc seem to play all multimedia |
| 03:15.16 | rant | but we have our fair share of lesser official repos, like backports and dmo and such |
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| 03:16.16 | Tom-_ | the installer looks pleasant |
| 03:16.52 | *** join/#debian Kon- (~Leevancle@unaffiliated/leevancleef) |
| 03:17.02 | ryouma | dvd encryption is fixed now io main repos? |
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| 03:17.18 | rant | afaik, I rarely use dvds but I never had any problem with them |
| 03:17.41 | themill | ,i libdvd-pkg |
| 03:17.41 | mojikun | rant, wait are backports not as supported? |
| 03:17.42 | judd | Package libdvd-pkg (contrib/utils, optional) in stretch/amd64: DVD-Video playing library - installer. Version: 1.4.0-1-2; Size: 15.5k; Installed: 77k |
| 03:17.47 | rant | I doubt its in /main/ per-se but its at least available in contrib or non-free if nothing else |
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| 03:18.38 | rant | mojikun: meh.. well backports are /allowed/ to bypass normal policy and pull fixes directly from sid, but its all done on a per-package at the maintainers will basis.. they are of less quality you might say |
| 03:19.35 | rant | mojikun: they do not get security updates by the security team, like a ssb you make yourself, they are required to be seperately maintained by whoever made them |
| 03:19.56 | rant | mojikun: which depending on who that was and their level of interest and such.. may or may not be a bad thing |
| 03:20.19 | rant | it could in theory due to the lax policy, make the package more current, and faster updated/patched/fixed than anything else |
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| 03:22.29 | mojikun | rant, i see. i rarely use that anyway. if i want a newer system usually just switch to testing repos permanently |
| 03:25.19 | kreyren | Any ETA on debian providing mono-complete 5.20+ ? |
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| 03:30.39 | tfgbd_ | https://imgur.com/a/8ywkbJ7 |
| 03:30.47 | tfgbd_ | took a pic for ya ;P |
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| 03:33.16 | tfgbd_ | Isn't DMO a Windows API? |
| 03:33.31 | tfgbd_ | WinCE gets DMO for .mp3 |
| 03:33.55 | kreyren | i have issues getting mono 5.20 on debian buster (https://pastebin.com/raw/jqvMJhvd) Looking for recommendation since debian provides 5.18 only |
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| 03:38.37 | kreyren | is bullseye new testing btw? |
| 03:38.47 | themill | sort of |
| 03:40.28 | kreyren | *grabbing it* |
| 03:42.09 | kreyren | it has same packages as buster lol.. |
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| 03:46.23 | Tom-_ | that's the way it works :) |
| 03:46.53 | Tom-_ | although apparently it changes rapidly |
| 03:46.55 | Tom-_ | dpkg, bullseye |
| 03:46.55 | dpkg | The release following Debian 10 "Buster" is codenamed "Bullseye" (Woody's horse in Toy Story 2) and will be Debian 11. It is the current "testing" release. Remember that straight after a stable release, all sorts of mess suddenly lands in "testing" and it is best avoided if you don't like debugging things. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2016/07/msg00002.html |
| 03:47.54 | kreyren | cool O.o |
| 03:49.21 | Kon- | Congratulations to everyone involved on a great release. There's some exciting stuff happening in Buster! I hope newer users can be made aware of the Calamares installer option |
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| 03:49.33 | rant | mojikun: you can also often use a chroot or backport it yourself fairly easily |
| 03:49.42 | rant | mojikun: /msg dpkg ssb |
| 03:49.53 | annadane | isn't calamares a fish dish? |
| 03:49.55 | dstaring | Can somebody help me out? If you type "apt-check" in your Debian, what does it output? (Possibly have to run /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check ) |
| 03:50.11 | dstaring | I'm trying to verify that: 1. This thing exists by default. 2. Only outputs a number such as "4;6". |
| 03:50.12 | kreyren | > Calamares installer option |
| 03:50.15 | kreyren | ehw |
| 03:50.27 | kreyren | Are you deprecating old installer? |
| 03:50.27 | dstaring | (Two numbers) |
| 03:50.56 | Kon- | No kreyren. The old installer is still default. Calamares is used to install from the live media only |
| 03:51.12 | rant | kreyren: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/mono is where you'd track progress.. the issues are at the top of the center column |
| 03:51.15 | dstaring | .oO(Maybe there's something about that message which makes everyone see it as blank/nonexistent...) |
| 03:51.16 | kreyren | thank god i hate that thing |
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| 03:51.54 | kreyren | rant, i know, but there is no ETA and i need mono 5.20 now.. any recommendations ? |
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| 03:52.05 | kreyren | i tried to use the one from upstream but it fails as seen above |
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| 03:52.13 | kreyren | https://pastebin.com/raw/jqvMJhvd |
| 03:52.42 | rant | this is the first I've ever heard of calameres.. it looks nice though |
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| 03:53.25 | dstaring | SO... Is it entirely meaningless for me to try to install REAL Debian on my RPI v1 (headless)? Since Raspbian is dangerous crippleware lacking even the most basic security? |
| 03:53.29 | Tom-_ | dstaring, apt-check is not on my Debian 9 cloud |
| 03:53.36 | dstaring | Tom-_: Really? Hmm... |
| 03:53.36 | Kon- | annadane: Yes it's a fish but it's also the name of a streamlined GUI installer for distros. Used by a lot of Debian derivatives like KDE Neon and Lubuntu. Manjaro uses it as well |
| 03:53.41 | Tom-_ | or in the base installation of Debian 10, so far |
| 03:53.41 | dstaring | Tom-_: Not even if you use that full path? |
| 03:53.45 | kreyren | meh.. i had to deal with it on few OS and it's pita.. Would be cool if debian provided tarball stage like gentoo/exherbo tho |
| 03:53.55 | Tom-_ | ah i hadn't checked the full path |
| 03:54.12 | Tom-_ | dstaring, bash: /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check: No such file or directory |
| 03:54.36 | dstaring | Tom-_: Hmm! |
| 03:54.46 | Guest91755 | Hello, I'm afraid I had a nasty crash while full-upgrading from 9.9, it looked like this: https://imgur.com/a/so3HqZk |
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| 03:55.22 | dstaring | Tom-_: Maybe that guy lied to me... |
| 03:55.41 | Guest91755 | The suggestion to use - - fix-broken install also does not work: https://imgur.com/a/yPgjAJ8 |
| 03:56.27 | Tom-_ | hang on for a while, Guest91755, i'm two questions behind |
| 03:56.39 | themill | Guest91755: please use paste.debian.org |
| 03:56.45 | themill | Guest91755: err paste.debian.net |
| 03:56.55 | Guest91755 | And I can't execute most of my common programs, like irssi or even man :/ I think I'm stuck on a broken system now |
| 03:57.02 | Guest91755 | Yes, thank you :) |
| 03:57.26 | Guest91755 | I would, but I'm on my phone since my pc is so broken |
| 03:57.29 | Tom-_ | dstaring, I don't see a /apt-check in any directory in the stretch Contents-foo.gz files |
| 03:57.41 | Tom-_ | maybe update-notifier is an Ubuntu package |
| 03:57.47 | Tom-_ | ,v update-notifier |
| 03:57.47 | dstaring | Tom-_: Strange. It's mentioned online as "undocumented"... |
| 03:57.47 | judd | Package: update-notifier on amd64 -- jessie: 3.14.0-1 |
| 03:58.06 | Tom-_ | is your Debian the jessie version, dstaring? |
| 03:58.14 | dstaring | "Undocumented" and "basic security" feel incompatible... |
| 03:58.31 | s8ori | security through obscurity! |
| 03:58.38 | dstaring | Tom-_: I only have Raspbian myself so far. This was advice given to me by a person on freenode. |
| 03:58.49 | rant | kreyren: mono 5.20 will likely only ever be available in sid or bookworm at this point, it has never to my knowledge been backported.. its use is not common installation of a mono runtime is about 10% or less of our user base according to obtainable statistics, its maint has been spotty over its history, and to my knowledge nothing we actually ship requires it |
| 03:58.54 | Tom-_ | dstaring, what advice? |
| 03:58.59 | dstaring | Tom-_: (It doesn't exist on Raspbian.) |
| 03:59.11 | Tom-_ | Guest91755, maybe ping me in like half an hour (say my name) |
| 03:59.20 | dstaring | Tom-_: I'm trying to check if my Raspbian/Debian system needs my attention to install any security updates. |
| 03:59.21 | rant | kreyren: its one of those things where if you really want to see it improve you are going to have to help support it |
| 03:59.25 | *** join/#debian torbo (~user@162.249.163.177) |
| 03:59.32 | Guest91755 | Ok, I will, thanks a lot |
| 03:59.40 | dstaring | Tom-_: In a non-interactive manner. That is, the check is being made through my script. Not typed out as a command manually. |
| 03:59.57 | Tom-_ | i think you should ask in raspbian |
| 03:59.58 | Tom-_ | !raspbian |
| 03:59.59 | dpkg | Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. https://www.raspbian.org/ |
| 04:00.25 | Tom-_ | !unattended-upgrades |
| 04:00.25 | dpkg | well, unattended-upgrades is a package for installing security upgrades automatically, unattended. See https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades |
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| 04:00.26 | dstaring | Tom-_: I've asked, and asked, and asked... they either know nothing or don't want to explain it. |
| 04:00.37 | rant | kreyren: the simplest way to help grow support for such a thing if you lack the time/ability to really help with development type things is to install and use popcon so that your use of the package is recorded and its seen as being used by more people and thus more important, and to provide as much feedback and pushing on the BTS and mailing lists and such as possible |
| 04:01.30 | dstaring | dpkg: It feels rude to say it, but I've seen that URL a number of times over the last X months and every time I load it, I just fall back into my chair from exhausting. For real. Literally. |
| 04:01.30 | dpkg | dstaring: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request |
| 04:01.41 | dstaring | dpkg: Unparseable request? |
| 04:01.42 | dpkg | dstaring: I don't know, could you explain it? |
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| 04:01.49 | rant | dstaring: its a bot |
| 04:01.59 | dstaring | *exhaustion |
| 04:01.59 | rant | dpkg, what are you? |
| 04:01.59 | dpkg | I am an infobot. For more information, ask me about <infobot>. |
| 04:02.14 | themill | dstaring: All I can see you is trolling #raspbian. Not surprised you didn't get an answer. |
| 04:02.50 | dstaring | themill: Just because you have a mental illness where you apparently waste everyone's time all day, doesn't mean this is the case for everyone else. |
| 04:02.54 | dstaring | themill!*@* added to ignore list. |
| 04:02.54 | *** mode/#debian [+o themill] by ChanServ |
| 04:02.56 | *** part/#debian dstaring (~dstaring@209.236.75.174) |
| 04:03.03 | *** mode/#debian [+b *!*@209.236.75.174] by themill |
| 04:03.07 | *** mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill |
| 04:03.25 | rant | dstaring: perhaps webmin might be of interest to you, it is available from their website and provides you with a web interface to know if updates are avaialble and perform upgrades |
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| 04:05.27 | Kon- | Just out of curioisity kreyren, what are you trying to run that requires bleeding edge mono? |
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| 04:07.47 | rant | the only thing I've ever used mono for is opensim, and I have many times considered just rewriting the whole damn program from scratch in something else :P |
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| 04:12.35 | Tom-_ | Guest91755, I don't know what's going on there, some libnfs package had the same file as another libnfs package. i think that's not supposed to happen |
| 04:13.12 | Guest91755 | Yeah, it came out of nowhere |
| 04:13.21 | Tom-_ | Guest91755, you can try running `dpkg --configure -a` or `apt-get -f install` a few times to see if it improves anything, and then maybe another image (don't type the quotes ``) |
| 04:13.30 | Tom-_ | dpkg, paste? |
| 04:13.30 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 04:13.59 | themill | Guest91755, Tom-_: classic deb-multimedia.org packaging :( |
| 04:14.03 | themill | get rid of those packages |
| 04:14.07 | Guest91755 | I'm bl1v btw |
| 04:14.17 | bl1v | I found out I can use chromium for some reason |
| 04:14.58 | Tom-_ | Guest91755, do what themill says if you have deb-multimedia.org and you want to upgrade :) |
| 04:15.29 | bl1v | oh dang, it must be that libdvdcss2 thing |
| 04:15.31 | bl1v | purging it now |
| 04:15.41 | themill | that and a lot of other packages, most likely |
| 04:15.54 | rant | Guest91755: (apt policy libns8 libns12;apt policy)|nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 04:16.10 | bl1v | it's the only deb-multimedia package installed |
| 04:16.59 | rant | Guest91755: (apt policy libnfs8 libnfs12;apt policy)|nc termbin.com 9999 |
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| 04:17.06 | rant | sorry, typos |
| 04:17.39 | rant | this is what happens when you post screenshots instead of pastes.. |
| 04:17.58 | rant | the resolution of the image makes me go blind and I can't see it properly |
| 04:18.34 | bl1v | this is what happened, coming from dpkg --configure -a : http://paste.debian.net/1090544/ |
| 04:18.46 | rant | not to mention we can't easily search the text or view it on our terminals.. you don't do yourself justice using screenshots when you could use pastes |
| 04:19.26 | bl1v | I know, I'm sorry, I thought I wouldn't be able to use anything else |
| 04:19.34 | themill | bl1v: the actual error is before what you pasted |
| 04:20.42 | bl1v | here's the whole thing http://paste.debian.net/1090545/ |
| 04:21.55 | themill | you've got a stack of dmo packages in there |
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| 04:23.02 | bl1v | what does that mean? |
| 04:23.13 | themill | !dmo list |
| 04:23.13 | dpkg | To list all packages you have installed from deb-multimedia.org: aptitude search '?narrow(?version(CURRENT),?origin(Unofficial Multimedia Packages))' --disable-columns -F%p. Note: apt must know about the origin repository for this to work (i.e. you have a 'deb' line for it in sources.list and 'apt-get update' has been run). See also <which repo>. |
| 04:23.35 | themill | (that might still work in the middle of an upgrade) |
| 04:23.57 | mojikun | lets hope wayland seems more support now, and active development since the debian move to wayland as default for gnome |
| 04:24.33 | mojikun | i am waiting for it to be stable so i can ditch x11/i3wm and use wayland/sway |
| 04:26.32 | rant | libcue2 libaom0 libx264-157 libcdio19 libfaac0 x11proto-xf86vidmode-dev libx265-176 libvpx6 libopenh264-5 libcdio-cdda2 libcdio-paranoia2 libjavascriptcoregtk-4.0-18 libgstreamer-plugins-base1.0-0 libgstreamer-plugins-bad1.0-0 gstreamer1.0-plugins-base gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio libass9 gstreamer1.0-plugins-good libgstreamer-gl1.0-0 gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37 |
| 04:26.42 | rant | is the list of dmo packages from that paste fwiw |
| 04:27.03 | rant | if you just got rid of the repo line, update the cache and toss that line into an apt remove... |
| 04:27.48 | bl1v | so first apt update (w/o dmo repo) and then apt remove them? |
| 04:28.29 | rant | http://paste.debian.net/plain/1090546 if you want to copy it without the annoyances of possible client wrapping issues |
| 04:29.12 | rant | thats one way to go about it.. assuming there isnt more, where the line themill/dpkg said comes into play |
| 04:29.37 | rant | I just parsed the output of your paste and had it list the package names all on one line for anything that had a dmo version number |
| 04:29.51 | rant | its less precise but should help none the less |
| 04:30.14 | tfgbd_ | Is there a debian for "Device Emulator" ? |
| 04:30.43 | *** part/#debian Primer (~daniel@ceregatti.org) |
| 04:30.51 | rant | tfgbd_: is there an english for "what you just said"? |
| 04:31.28 | tfgbd_ | Microsoft makes this ARM board I use. |
| 04:31.34 | annadane | QEMU, i guess... |
| 04:31.38 | tfgbd_ | Noo |
| 04:31.38 | Kon- | How does a user end up with all these dmo packages when they never heard of deb-multimedia.org? |
| 04:31.49 | tfgbd_ | This is a different "open source" ARM board. |
| 04:32.30 | tfgbd_ | https://i.imgur.com/k2CqifZ.jpg |
| 04:32.38 | themill | Kon-: read a 5 year old tutorial written by someone with 10 year out of date info who probably didn't know what they were talking about to begin with, and just copied a couple of commands. |
| 04:33.02 | Kon- | lol fair enough, I'm sure that happens every day |
| 04:33.03 | rant | if you are asking if there is a debian installer for some board and whatever idiot made it, called it "Device Emulator" we need more than that.. cause thats HORRENDOUSLY VAGUE |
| 04:33.09 | bl1v | yeah pretty much |
| 04:37.23 | *** join/#debian apt (ibot@c-174-52-60-165.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:37.23 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 04:37.48 | rant | tfgbd_: so you want to know if you can run debian inside this emulator? |
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| 04:38.54 | Tom-_ | bl1v, whare are you at now? |
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| 04:39.03 | tfgbd_ | Yeah |
| 04:39.12 | rant | thats not really a question we can answer other than to say, no.. because we have no idea what kind of hardware that emulates |
| 04:39.23 | tfgbd_ | I'll paste the specs |
| 04:39.27 | rant | all it says is that it emulates arm.. that says nothing |
| 04:39.49 | rant | nothing about what kind of arm architecture, nothing about the storage, I/O, rtc, etc.. |
| 04:41.16 | tfgbd_ | http://allsoftwaresucks.blogspot.com/2016/10/running-without-arm-and-leg-windows.html |
| 04:41.21 | tfgbd_ | Specs are there somewhere |
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| 04:42.41 | Kon- | tfgbd_: Does the Windows ARM version not have Windows Linux Subsystem? |
| 04:43.00 | tfgbd_ | That's WinCE ARM |
| 04:43.01 | rant | tfgbd_: it says it emulates this http://www.friendlyarm.net/products/mini2440 |
| 04:43.33 | tfgbd_ | How Friendly |
| 04:43.49 | rant | tfgbd_: which means it could run debian, but not in any desktop capacity and not very well |
| 04:43.56 | rant | its a 400mhz arm with 64mb ram |
| 04:43.58 | bl1v | I guess it's not looking good http://paste.debian.net/1090548/ |
| 04:44.02 | bl1v | unmet dependencies |
| 04:44.09 | tfgbd_ | That RAM can increase you know |
| 04:44.15 | rant | and presumably the host hardware is that or less, and has resources already tied up |
| 04:44.23 | tfgbd_ | Oh, it will run the desktop. |
| 04:45.20 | tfgbd_ | I have Ubuntu on my Snapdragons |
| 04:45.54 | bl1v | does that mean gnome depends on some of the packages I tried to remove believing they came from dmo? |
| 04:46.32 | Tom-_ | i think so |
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| 04:46.52 | bl1v | does that even make sense :P |
| 04:47.01 | Tom-_ | bl1v, have you removed dmo from you /etc/apt/sources.list files, and souces.list.d files, and done an apt-get update yet? |
| 04:47.18 | Tom-_ | ty that and maybe an apt-get -f install to see if apt will help out |
| 04:47.30 | bl1v | oh, so I had to remove the repos first |
| 04:47.33 | bl1v | I'm such an eternal noob |
| 04:47.49 | rant | tfgbd_: I've tried to run a super light GUI on my opi lite and it has a quad core 1.2ghz cpu and 512MB ram and it barely managed.. and that was running NATIVELY |
| 04:48.25 | rant | tfgbd_: and this will not be an easy install.. it will require cross compiling, manually building kernel, rootfs, uboot images, etc.. |
| 04:48.43 | rant | all for little real gain other than saying you did it.. it'll serve little practical use |
| 04:49.13 | themill | bl1v: for the moment, removing the dmo version of libnfs* might be enough; remove it with dpkg -r --force-depends |
| 04:49.44 | themill | (libnfs8) |
| 04:51.33 | bl1v | removed the repo, updated, and looks like I got the same error http://paste.debian.net/1090549/ |
| 04:52.45 | bl1v | but I think libnfs8 is not installed on my system, or is it? http://paste.debian.net/1090550/ |
| 04:52.47 | tehnull | why is sudo apt-get dist-upgrade not working for me? I'm on 9.9. Do I need to wait a bit for mirrors to update or something? |
| 04:52.54 | Sveta | someone is asking me why Unattended-upgrades is not a part of non-gui debian by default. is it a part of some 'all nice important server stuff' metapackage, or how to debian server administrators learn of it? |
| 04:53.11 | Sveta | I learned of it on irc. |
| 04:53.17 | rant | tehnull: you do not apt-get dist-upgrade for one thing |
| 04:53.19 | tfgbd_ | Don't use KDE |
| 04:53.26 | tfgbd_ | Use GNOME2 |
| 04:53.39 | rant | tehnull: then you might want to be less vague |
| 04:54.13 | tehnull | It's my understanding that's how I upgrade to buster? |
| 04:54.13 | tfgbd_ | Why are you compiling more ARM debians if the orange pi already comes with one? |
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| 04:54.34 | Tom-_ | Highdude, it does not appear to be possible to install Cinnamon or GNOME and use sysvinit at the same time on Debian 10 without outwitting the package manage or recompiling things |
| 04:54.40 | rant | tehnull: your understanding is incomplete and didnt come from the release notes |
| 04:55.08 | rant | tfgbd_: trust me, if you should get an orange pi, do NOT use any of their images.. they have memory leaks, backdoors, etc.. |
| 04:55.27 | bl1v | status: installed lol |
| 04:55.28 | tfgbd_ | Oh |
| 04:55.33 | tfgbd_ | Can't you get some 3rd party one? |
| 04:55.38 | Tom-_ | which seems unfortunate to me |
| 04:55.40 | tfgbd_ | Does the same apply to the UK based Rasbian? |
| 04:55.41 | rant | tfgbd_: and you're f'n high if you think it'd run any DE.. with only 512MB ram.. I was only running a light wm and a light panel |
| 04:55.48 | tehnull | well clearly the upgrade isn't "automatically being handled" if I'm still on 9.9 |
| 04:56.01 | aljoni | I have just installed Debian 10, how should I install Nvidia drivers? Following the instructions for Debian 9? |
| 04:56.05 | tfgbd_ | The Raspberry Pi Zero worked fine with the desktop to me. |
| 04:56.10 | themill | tehnull: you might need to explain more what you've done |
| 04:56.14 | tfgbd_ | 512mb |
| 04:56.27 | tfgbd_ | The HD2 also worked fine with Gnome |
| 04:56.45 | tehnull | why is this so confusing I've done nothing but try and upgrade to buster like I've already said |
| 04:56.54 | bl1v | alright, I removed libnfs8 with dpkg |
| 04:57.02 | themill | tehnull: that isn't actually telling anyone what you have done |
| 04:57.06 | bl1v | should I try update and then full-upgrade? |
| 04:57.09 | rant | tehnull: upgrading to buster is a MANY STEP process, none of which you seem to understand |
| 04:57.14 | themill | tehnull: can I suggest real commands and real output? |
| 04:57.28 | rant | tehnull: upgrading a debian release is not merely a single dist-upgrade command |
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| 04:58.16 | rant | tehnull: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html |
| 04:58.39 | rant | at the VERY least you must change the sources, update, then dist-upgrade |
| 04:58.41 | tehnull | wow... |
| 04:59.03 | rant | and thats assuming you dont have any other stuff going on that could cause problems |
| 04:59.21 | tehnull | this shit right here is why windows will always be the soup du jour |
| 04:59.45 | rant | yeah, cause a windows upgrade is just a single command.. |
| 04:59.50 | tehnull | it is |
| 04:59.53 | tehnull | lol |
| 04:59.58 | rant | no, its not, and it never was.. ever |
| 05:00.13 | rant | and also has all that fighting with drivers and crap |
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| 05:00.30 | bl1v | I never liked soup anyway :P |
| 05:00.30 | tehnull | obviously you don't remember PC's automatically upgrading themselves to 10 lol |
| 05:00.49 | rant | the most rudimentary upgrade proceedure involves changing your sources from the old release to the new, updating the package cache, then doing a dist-upgrade |
| 05:01.10 | aljoni | I modified my sources, and added "non-free" to the "deb ... buster" line. However I am unable to install the package "nvidia-driver", I get this output: https://paste.debian.net/1090552/ |
| 05:01.18 | rant | however the release notes is more thorough, trying to avoid many possible issues |
| 05:01.24 | bl1v | I thought this time around it's supposed to be apt full-upgrade |
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| 05:02.37 | tehnull | I'm just going to re-install I got a feeling after reading this my upgrade results are going to be less than satisfactory |
| 05:02.50 | m4ch1n3znc | so buster is now stable :3 |
| 05:03.22 | rant | tehnull: well should you go that route and plan to do so in the future.. consider making your /home seperate |
| 05:03.33 | tehnull | it is |
| 05:03.39 | tehnull | it's on it's own disk |
| 05:03.47 | tehnull | well own 2 disks |
| 05:04.06 | rant | tehnull: well thats good.. then you can reinstall without reformatting and backup and global configs to the /home just make sure you tell it to keep existing data on the /home |
| 05:04.21 | rant | s/and/any/ |
| 05:04.27 | bl1v | ok, I removed libnfs8 with dpkg, removed the repo lines from sources, apt-get update'd, and apt-get -f install'd, and it seems fine |
| 05:04.31 | bl1v | got no errors this time |
| 05:04.40 | bl1v | I suppose I should try now full-upgrading? |
| 05:04.49 | magic_ninja_work | aljoni, post up your /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 05:05.06 | rant | bl1v: thats likely because the libnfs8 was the only one that didnt have an upgrade path, the rest just upgraded to the normal official packages |
| 05:05.20 | rant | bl1v: and yes, you should probably be able to proceed now |
| 05:05.44 | aljoni | magic_ninja_work: https://paste.debian.net/1090553/ |
| 05:05.49 | rant | tehnull: this user was having one such issue the release notes would've avoided.. they had a lot of dmo packages installed.. |
| 05:06.31 | rant | if your system is pure debian and no odd things going on, usually an upgrade is a simple fast painless 3 step process of changing sources, updating cache, and upgrading |
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| 05:07.46 | magic_ninja_work | aljoni, you need to add non-free to source as well |
| 05:08.01 | bl1v | I must confess I skimmed through the release notes just to confirm the commands I needed |
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| 05:08.16 | bl1v | I'm a sinner! |
| 05:08.26 | yutayu | cong |
| 05:08.41 | aljoni | magic_ninja_work: Added it, ran "apt update", then "apt install nvidia-driver". Same output as before. |
| 05:08.41 | bl1v | but I have to say I've no idea why this particular package, or this group of packages would cause such an error |
| 05:09.05 | Sveta | https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades "As of Debian 9 (Stretch) both the unattended-upgrades and apt-listchanges packages are installed by default and upgrades are enabled with the GNOME desktop." <-- this is confusing, are these two packages included by default only with the gnome desktop, or with anything including no desktop? |
| 05:09.16 | bl1v | I had them installed since wheezy was around and upgraded to jessie no problems |
| 05:09.56 | rant | anyone with experience in the field knows that real-world mass upgrade scenarios of windows are just as thorough and often very convoluted.. cause one thing you need remember when comparing a windows upgrade to a debian upgrade is that windows is almost nothing compared to debian.. debian is EVERYTHING.. on windows all the other stuff that isnt just the kernel, shell, notepad, paint.. few crappy apps, is not |
| 05:10.02 | rant | part of the upgrade |
| 05:10.58 | tehnull | am I mistaken or is it just silly that I should manually edit my apt internet sources if I'm upgrading from previous stable to current stable? |
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| 05:11.33 | tfgbd_ | Crappy apps like Inkscape and TheGIMP? |
| 05:13.28 | magic_ninja_work | aljoni, use this https://paste.debian.net/1090554/ |
| 05:13.48 | magic_ninja_work | sudo apt update && nvidia-detect and let me know what it shows. |
| 05:13.59 | bl1v | am I being tried or something :P |
| 05:14.14 | bl1v | for my bad taste in apps |
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| 05:14.34 | aljoni | magic_ninja_work: https://paste.debian.net/1090555/ |
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| 05:16.14 | aljoni | magic_ninja_work: Just realised you wanted the output from both, half asleep right now, here is the output of "apt update": https://paste.debian.net/1090556/ |
| 05:16.41 | magic_ninja_work | no you read that right |
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| 05:16.50 | magic_ninja_work | mainly wanting output of nvidia-detect |
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| 05:19.14 | magic_ninja_work | now, you need to do the update |
| 05:19.19 | magic_ninja_work | sudo apt upgrade |
| 05:19.53 | aljoni | magic_ninja_work: https://paste.debian.net/1090557/ |
| 05:20.25 | magic_ninja_work | that is the upgrade? |
| 05:20.44 | aljoni | That's the output from "sudo apt upgrade". |
| 05:21.13 | magic_ninja_work | nvidia-detect |
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| 05:21.35 | aljoni | https://paste.debian.net/1090558/ |
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| 05:22.05 | magic_ninja_work | so now do apt install nvidia-driver |
| 05:22.12 | magic_ninja_work | probably still broken but we have a baseline |
| 05:23.58 | aljoni | Well... it's installing now. |
| 05:24.16 | aljoni | I don't see what changed here. |
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| 05:25.10 | magic_ninja_work | you added non-free and contrib to the other repos. |
| 05:25.41 | aljoni | I tried that initially before coming on IRC. Must have forgotten to "apt update" or something. |
| 05:26.01 | magic_ninja_work | I mean, you didn't do it right |
| 05:26.05 | magic_ninja_work | your sources.list was wrong |
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| 05:26.49 | aljoni | I don't often mess with it (rightly so I imagine), so I was going from memory. :P |
| 05:27.31 | aljoni | Anyway, I need to reboot now to get this to activate. |
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| 05:33.11 | bl1v | it's done now, I'm on buster |
| 05:33.15 | bl1v | thank you SO much :) |
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| 05:34.11 | bl1v | brb |
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| 05:36.15 | tfgbd_ | You mean it needs to boot to back it up? |
| 05:37.59 | finn0 | I'm noticing a weird behavior of chromium browser. My workspace automatically switch from workspace-1 to workspace-2 when I open chromium from workspace-1. |
| 05:38.14 | tfgbd_ | Why not use Chrome? |
| 05:39.07 | finn0 | Is chrome available on Debian official repo? Probably not. |
| 05:39.10 | Sveta | chromium â chrome |
| 05:39.34 | Sveta | chrome is available in an unofficial repository, i think |
| 05:40.16 | finn0 | Sveta: yep, maintian by Google chrome team. |
| 05:40.54 | yutayu | finn0:use firefox |
| 05:41.46 | annadane | (why do you need repositories for browsers if they're downloadable via the upstream site...?) |
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| 05:42.47 | yutayu | . |
| 05:43.17 | finn0 | yutayu: Yeah, I also use Firefox with heavily modified settings and some plugins. But, I would like to have a browser without tweaks. |
| 05:43.35 | finn0 | yutayu: And why not use chromium? |
| 05:44.21 | nkuttler | privacy |
| 05:44.24 | yutayu | firefox lover finn0 |
| 05:44.25 | finn0 | means I need a alternative browser for some personle work. |
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| 05:44.32 | tfgbd_ | Chromium =/= Chrome |
| 05:44.40 | tfgbd_ | Look into Chromium Netflix issues |
| 05:44.46 | yutayu | can install add-on without login |
| 05:44.48 | yutayu | finn0: |
| 05:45.40 | diogenes_ | Falkon is one of the best. |
| 05:45.51 | tfgbd_ | My ARM Windows NT needs debian to run Chromium for my architecture. |
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| 05:47.08 | tfgbd_ | I also get Chrome from Google's "upstream" but it is x86 only. |
| 05:47.10 | finn0 | nkuttler: Debian chromium team heavily patch chromium and they remove some part from google-chromium. |
| 05:47.16 | bliv | sweet |
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| 05:47.51 | tfgbd_ | Raspberry PI also gets this Windows. |
| 05:48.14 | nkuttler | finn0: cool story. i'd rather use something that doesn't have to be mutilated to be usable |
| 05:48.16 | jmd | Anyone know of a minimal cli application to play .ogv files? |
| 05:48.21 | Sveta | ÑздÑнÑк |
| 05:48.22 | Sveta | mplayer |
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| 05:48.33 | nkuttler | jmd: mpv |
| 05:48.41 | jmd | Sveta: "Minimal"!! |
| 05:48.55 | blackflow | mpv then |
| 05:49.12 | finn0 | I rarely use chromium. Use only for purpose of payment/booking etc. which is might be effected by my Firefox tweaks and addons. |
| 05:49.29 | Kon- | Definitely recommend mpv for a CLI video player jmd |
| 05:49.30 | jmd | Isn't mplayer and derivatives patent encumbered? |
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| 05:50.28 | annadane | okay, here we go, buster update! |
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| 05:50.30 | tfgbd_ | VLC. Please just use VLC |
| 05:50.35 | tfgbd_ | it's minimal enough |
| 05:51.06 | tfgbd_ | Firefox supports arm64 Windows but not arm32 yet |
| 05:51.47 | tfgbd_ | I found a VLC for Tegra Windows. |
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| 05:52.11 | Kon- | I've heard many people say this is a bad time to stay on Testing. I looked through the Release documentation but I'm having a hard time understanding why stability of Testing goes down after a new Stable release. Does a bunch of stuff just get dumped in from experimental suddenly? |
| 05:54.01 | nkuttler | Kon-: people have been holding back packages because of the freeze. basically, yes |
| 05:55.43 | Kon- | I suppose that makes sense if people feel a bit more free with the testing/migration cycle |
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| 06:18.13 | Lady_Aleena | Has anyone else skipped the step of burning a CD/DVD during the upgrade from Stretch to Buster? |
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| 06:18.44 | espera_satelita | what? do you really need to burn CD or DVD in order to upgrade your OS? |
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| 06:19.10 | espera_satelita | like backup or installation media |
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| 06:19.44 | Lady_Aleena | I did it last time as a precaution. |
| 06:20.01 | espera_satelita | afaik in order to upgrade debian you have to change repos s/stretch/buster/g and run apt update && apt dist-upgrade |
| 06:20.07 | espera_satelita | it's all |
| 06:20.08 | blackflow | you should keep backups at all times, not just during upgrade |
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| 06:21.28 | blackflow | espera_satelita: maybe not, depends. https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html |
| 06:21.41 | bliv | <PROTECTED> |
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| 06:23.15 | Lady_Aleena | I ran "# dpkg -l | pager", and I take it "ii" is good in front of package names, right? Also, what does "rc" and "ri" mean? Should I be concerned? |
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| 06:24.25 | CrazyTux | hello, is Debian 10 completely ready for installation for an end user? |
| 06:24.55 | themill | Lady_Aleena: the columns are explained in the top 3 lines |
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| 06:25.07 | blackflow | Lady_Aleena: the dpkg-query manpage explains the columns |
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| 06:26.04 | Lady_Aleena | So anything with an "r" should be removed? |
| 06:26.08 | CrazyTux | please provide me a link to any website where the detailed process of installation of Debian is given. I need it for a complete newbie, a non technical end user. |
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| 06:27.27 | Lady_Aleena | CrazyTux, will https://www.debian.org/distrib/ do? |
| 06:27.45 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: thanks a lot. |
| 06:27.49 | CrazyTux | I will check |
| 06:28.02 | Lady_Aleena | CrazyTux, you're welcome. |
| 06:28.21 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: would you recommend Debian for a newbie? |
| 06:28.42 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: how is mx linux as compared to debian? |
| 06:28.46 | Lady_Aleena | Are you talking about a Linux newbie? |
| 06:28.51 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: yes. |
| 06:29.01 | themill | Lady_Aleena: 'r' means "desired state is removed"; that doesn't tell you whether it has already been removed or will be removed. |
| 06:29.04 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: someone who has been using Windows 10 |
| 06:29.22 | Lady_Aleena | CrazyTux, how dependent on the GUI is the person? |
| 06:29.41 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: dependent on GUI only. |
| 06:29.52 | Lady_Aleena | CrazyTux, does this person have any skills on a command line at all? |
| 06:30.06 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: no. |
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| 06:30.36 | Lady_Aleena | CrazyTux, how quick of a study is the person? |
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| 06:31.10 | rant | CrazyTux: do they have any fingers? |
| 06:31.19 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: he doesn't want to learn the technical stuff related to an OS. He just wants to use it for home and office use. |
| 06:31.20 | rant | can they find and press the enter key? |
| 06:31.25 | rant | heh |
| 06:31.35 | rant | cause the debian installer is WIDHE compliant |
| 06:31.42 | rant | When In Doubt Hit Enter |
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| 06:32.01 | CrazyTux | what is WIDHE? |
| 06:32.15 | themill | (Except for the step when you are finishing partitioning) |
| 06:32.22 | Lady_Aleena | CrazyTux, there is always command line use with Linux, even with the most exhaustive desktop environment chosen? |
| 06:32.48 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: ok |
| 06:32.53 | rant | I've had my father on debian for years now.. Jessie then Stretch, and he's barely touched the keyboard much less the terminal |
| 06:33.01 | CrazyTux | rant: ok |
| 06:33.03 | Lady_Aleena | CrazyTux, the person would have to at least learn how to use nano for some things. |
| 06:33.25 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: what is nano? |
| 06:33.32 | rant | Lady_Aleena: not everyone makes their websites in perl :P |
| 06:33.39 | Lady_Aleena | A command line text editor. |
| 06:33.47 | Lady_Aleena | ^ nano |
| 06:34.00 | Lady_Aleena | rant, no?! Really?! |
| 06:34.02 | rant | my father uses mostly firefox and microsoft office, and has never heard of nano |
| 06:34.28 | rant | but then I had set it up for him, he didnt have to set it up himself |
| 06:35.11 | Lady_Aleena | CrazyTux, also, someone who has used Windows may not be comfortable using older versions of software. Debian does not have bleeding edge software versions. |
| 06:35.33 | rant | CrazyTux: whats the scenario here? why are you recommending Debian to them, are they open to it? what is their use case like? |
| 06:35.35 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: but Debian is the most stable OS. |
| 06:36.04 | Wulf | The most stable OS would be the one which never changed. Ever. |
| 06:36.08 | CrazyTux | rant: in fact I want to install Debian on this computer for me also. |
| 06:36.16 | CrazyTux | others also use this computer. |
| 06:36.27 | espera_satelita | even Arch can be stable if you can maintain it |
| 06:36.34 | rant | so you'd be sharing the machine.. like a machine used among flatmates? |
| 06:36.39 | Lady_Aleena | CrazyTux, I agree, but some users (I was, and to some extent stall am) are not happy with versions of software that are years old. |
| 06:37.14 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: ok |
| 06:37.15 | espera_satelita | and also. a computer will work flawlessly if no one would turn it on |
| 06:37.29 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: then which distro would you recommend for such people? |
| 06:37.32 | winny | computers were a mistake. *drops mic* |
| 06:37.48 | rant | really the most common two things my father has bugged me about was the printer acting up, and typically turning the printer off and back on fixes that, and him not finding things he saved from microsoft office he insists on saving to f'n "My Documents" inside the wine bottle instead of to whatever drive the homedir is mapped to.. so I long ago linked the bottle's My Documents to his homedir.. and told him |
| 06:37.54 | rant | this ad nauseum.. |
| 06:38.06 | CrazyTux | Lady_Aleena: how about mx linux? |
| 06:38.09 | Lady_Aleena | CrazyTux, I don't know. I went from Windows XP to Debian Wheezy. I haven't tried any other Linux distributions. |
| 06:38.13 | rant | Lady_Aleena: you're being a negative nancy right now.. heh.. |
| 06:38.17 | blackflow | winny: there's an irc command for *drop mic* tho ::) |
| 06:38.28 | espera_satelita | AFAIK wine's Documents is mapped to ~/Documents or what is it in your locale |
| 06:38.29 | winny | blackflow: this is true :) |
| 06:38.30 | rant | people who are used to something aren't happy with DIFFERENT software they couldnt care less how old or new it is |
| 06:39.11 | Lady_Aleena | rant, Debian can be VERY intense for someone who HAS worked on a Windows command line. I thought I was ready for Linux, and even today, I am still having issues. |
| 06:39.36 | rant | CrazyTux: we obviously recommend Debian or we wouldnt be here.. however some of the lest pure folk here that dont bleed in red debian swirls.. might say you have different things for different reasons.. |
| 06:39.54 | blackflow | I always likened distro (non-)hopping to sex life. You can get married young and stay with that person forever, never tasting another ... . Or you can distro-hop while you're "young" in distros experience, and then settle over the years :) |
| 06:39.55 | Lady_Aleena | So, for someone who hasn't even SEEN a command line, Debian might not be the best Linux distribution for them. |
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| 06:40.06 | rant | Lady_Aleena: yeah.. it can be real orgasmic how much SIMPLER it is :P |
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| 06:40.15 | totesmuhgoats | Hi All |
| 06:40.44 | aljoni | totesmuhgoats: Hey. |
| 06:40.45 | totesmuhgoats | Is anyone aware of a good GUI tool for LVM management that is in the testing repository? |
| 06:40.49 | espera_satelita | one word for "I can't install and configure debian" is "ubuntu" |
| 06:40.58 | Lady_Aleena | rant, simpler my FOOT, I still don't know if all the programs that are listed with an "rc" or "ri" in the dpkg list will cause problems when I upgrade from Stretch to Buster. |
| 06:41.00 | espera_satelita | but debian is really easy to install |
| 06:41.31 | espera_satelita | you can just select your preferred desktop environment while installing and the OS should boot to the UI |
| 06:41.39 | Kon- | CrazyTux: The easiest way to install Debian is with the Live media where you can test the desktop and then install it using the very simple GUI installer. For best results you'll want the the build including non-free firmware. Here are the ISOs for standard amd64 desktops. Choose the ISO for the desktop environment you want https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/10.0.0-live+nonfree/amd64/iso-hybrid/ |
| 06:41.54 | Lady_Aleena | espera_satelita, easy to install, yes; easy to configure, NO! |
| 06:41.54 | *** join/#debian aljoni (~aljoni@242.48-31-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk) |
| 06:42.22 | blackflow | Lady_Aleena: backup and TIAS? ;) |
| 06:42.39 | espera_satelita | even a chicken is able to successfully install debian if you lay some grains on the Enter key |
| 06:43.10 | Lady_Aleena | blackflow, upgrades always scare the bejeezus out of me. |
| 06:43.20 | espera_satelita | Lady_Aleena: easy to configure: YES, if you can google |
| 06:43.26 | Lady_Aleena | I haven't been able to shake it. |
| 06:43.43 | Lady_Aleena | espera_satelita, but there are times when one can't google, then one is stuck. |
| 06:43.57 | tfgbd_ | I found a change when I "installed" newer debian on another "computer" |
| 06:44.14 | blackflow | Lady_Aleena: worst thing, you'll have to re-install from a live env or similar. |
| 06:44.21 | espera_satelita | like when your ethernet adapter doesn't work because of missing firmware in defaults ISOs |
| 06:44.46 | Lady_Aleena | I still haven't figured out which ISO I need to download to burn for my just-in-case disk. |
| 06:45.08 | espera_satelita | Lady_Aleena: SysRescueCD |
| 06:45.15 | espera_satelita | but that's not debian |
| 06:45.18 | blackflow | Lady_Aleena: one of live ones? https://www.debian.org/CD/live/ |
| 06:45.19 | Lady_Aleena | Or do I just use the ISO for a fresh install? |
| 06:45.39 | CrazyTux | Kon-: how about Debian with Cinnamon? |
| 06:45.52 | espera_satelita | any distro livecd. you can reinstall debian using debootstrap from any distro |
| 06:45.53 | CrazyTux | Kon-: have you used mx linux before? |
| 06:46.02 | *** join/#debian nuuuciano (~luuuciano@unaffiliated/luuuciano) |
| 06:46.28 | Kon- | Not a fan of Cinnamon myself, but sure. MX uses a heavily customized XFCE. It can be made to look nice but I think Debian will ship the defaults which look a bit more Windows XP-inspired |
| 06:46.37 | CrazyTux | and how difficult is it to install, completely setup and use debian as compared to other distros like Mint? |
| 06:46.59 | espera_satelita | mint is very-very-very user-friendly |
| 06:47.02 | Kon- | If this is your goal, maybe you should consider Linux Mint Debian Edition |
| 06:47.06 | Lady_Aleena | Do I need to download and burn all three ISO's on https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/ ? |
| 06:47.14 | CrazyTux | ok |
| 06:47.37 | CrazyTux | btw, is mx linux a secure and stable distro? |
| 06:47.39 | espera_satelita | debian is somewhere between user-friendly ubuntu/mint/fedora and geeky distros like gentoo/arch/LFS |
| 06:47.51 | espera_satelita | any distro is secure and stable if you configure it |
| 06:48.00 | icarusfactor | Yeah Buster is released. |
| 06:48.07 | blackflow | Lady_Aleena: it's literally explained in the fourth subtitle section of that page. |
| 06:48.37 | *** join/#debian dtux (~dmtucker@2601:646:c401:5751:1868:4716:1054:b1ef) |
| 06:48.44 | CrazyTux | espera_satelita: do I need to configure mx linux further after setting it up? to make it more secure and stable? |
| 06:48.46 | tfgbd_ | Check out my debian: https://i.imgur.com/G4MAqFn.png |
| 06:49.00 | Kon- | Those fonts could use some work |
| 06:49.09 | tfgbd_ | https://i.imgur.com/hhs5Jbv.png |
| 06:49.18 | blackflow | ugly. |
| 06:49.19 | *** join/#debian bla (~bla@unaffiliated/bla) |
| 06:49.19 | tfgbd_ | What do I need to apt-get |
| 06:49.31 | blackflow | also, is that windows xp installing in the vm? |
| 06:49.31 | tfgbd_ | Its not my primary wks |
| 06:49.46 | rant | CrazyTux: anyone would comment on that crap here is an idiot if they said any less than use debian |
| 06:50.16 | Kon- | CrazyTux: For specifics on how MX configures things out of the box and how it differs from Debian XFCE, you'll need to ask MX users for support |
| 06:50.29 | rant | CrazyTux: all linux distros are the same in most all regards except matters of priorties and communities.. and debians priorities and comunity are far better than most |
| 06:50.30 | CrazyTux | ok |
| 06:50.30 | tfgbd_ | Heres one of my others: http://i.imgur.com/v28ag60.jpg |
| 06:50.36 | Lady_Aleena | is downloading the ISO, will burn it, then upgrade, she thinks. |
| 06:50.41 | tfgbd_ | That ain't no VM |
| 06:50.46 | tehnull | ew |
| 06:50.49 | tfgbd_ | Thats an emulator |
| 06:51.48 | rant | CrazyTux: what made me a debian user almost 20 years ago were two documents https://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian and https://www.debian.org/social_contract what kept me here, was the community and them holding true to those two documents |
| 06:52.04 | tehnull | tfgbd_ http://i.imgur.com/5yEOg9D.png |
| 06:52.27 | tfgbd_ | Lady_Aleena: You need to burn all 6 isos for when debian unstable "comes out" next time |
| 06:52.53 | Lady_Aleena | tfgbd_, I hope not. |
| 06:53.02 | epsilon | where can I find the *subkey* mentioned here? the asc contains only pub key https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/04/msg00008.html |
| 06:54.39 | tfgbd_ | It's a VM on the second screenshot (I think) |
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| 06:55.21 | rant | CrazyTux: mx linux for one has a nearly non-existant support community compared to Debian |
| 06:55.55 | *** join/#debian humpled (~humbag@unaffiliated/humbag) |
| 06:57.42 | CrazyTux | rant: ok |
| 06:58.46 | Kon- | That really is the main difference. Most Debian solutions will probably work for MX Linux, but it gets difficult to offer support with confidence because derivatives like MX do often include their own repositories which can introduce issues not applicable to Debian |
| 06:59.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1499] by debhelper |
| 06:59.28 | rant | CrazyTux: debian has two large support networks for real-time support 24/7 here and on OFTC mx linux has none.. they have forums only last I checked.. we also have forums and a wiki as well as excellent mailing lists and bug tracking system |
| 07:00.02 | rant | more often than not when I ran into real problems with debian I was able to speak directly to the developers and get the problems resolved quickly |
| 07:00.06 | tfgbd_ | I thought the same |
| 07:01.14 | Lady_Aleena | I want to apologize for being so "needy" right now, but my relaxed upgrade weekend just blew up in my face. So, I am a bit stressed by outside forces that is making me question everything. |
| 07:01.40 | *** join/#debian kts (~kts@103.73.237.146) |
| 07:02.12 | CrazyTux | rant: ok. But, once installed, how can I make Debian as easy to use as Mint or MX Linux? |
| 07:03.01 | rant | once installed you wouldnt know the difference |
| 07:03.20 | CrazyTux | rant: ok |
| 07:03.21 | rant | and the installation processes are nearly identical |
| 07:03.26 | tfgbd_ | But didn't you just complain about MX Linux's lack of IRC support? |
| 07:03.27 | CrazyTux | rant: ok |
| 07:03.29 | Kon- | That's a loaded question. I know Mint has developed some of their applications but I think they are probably all available from a Debian Cinnamon installation. I don't think MX Linux does all that much except themeing Debian Xfce. |
| 07:03.49 | CrazyTux | Kon-: ok |
| 07:04.41 | tfgbd_ | Kon-: Are you named after that lion |
| 07:05.16 | Kon- | Honestly, if you go the Cinnamon route, I recommend Linux Mint Debian Edition over pure Debian Cinnamon. The Mint team maintains the Cinammon desktop on their own and you will get better support there. I think Debian Cinnamon users are a very small niche group. |
| 07:05.22 | Kon- | tfgbd_: No |
| 07:05.53 | rant | CrazyTux: yes choosing a good desktop would be the first major choice.. I personally thing MATE is the most mature code base that is most like traditional UI and that Cinnamon and XFCE are attractive alternatives with a slightly more modern feel.. where GNOME or KDE are pushing boundaries of modern design and if that sort of thing isnt super appealing to youm its best you steer clear cause most of us don't |
| 07:05.59 | rant | use those things and arent going to be able to offer as much support on them.. we have however on the OFTC network, specific debian channels for each of them |
| 07:06.12 | Kon- | And CrazyTux do remember that Linux Mint and Linux Mint Debian Edition are different distros. If you try it, make sure you download the correct one |
| 07:06.18 | jmcnaught | I don't think we should be recommending other distros in #debian. |
| 07:06.30 | rant | CrazyTux: I could provide you with some screenshots of what the /default/ of each of the 7 DE look like if you like |
| 07:06.33 | CrazyTux | Kon-: ok |
| 07:06.38 | rant | CrazyTux: their appearances can all be drastically changed |
| 07:06.42 | CrazyTux | rant: please |
| 07:07.21 | tfgbd_ | You know we just want XP back. |
| 07:07.27 | *** join/#debian kts (~kts@103.73.236.124) |
| 07:07.37 | CrazyTux | btw, which one would you recommend on Debian? Mate or Xfce? |
| 07:07.48 | rant | CrazyTux: https://imgur.com/a/TpMlnal |
| 07:07.54 | CrazyTux | I want a stable and bugfree DE also. |
| 07:08.00 | Kon- | I recommend KDE myself. I think Plasma is a very comfortable option for ex-Windows users and exposes the most options through GUI |
| 07:08.03 | jmcnaught | I recommend GNOME |
| 07:08.07 | rant | CrazyTux: I personally like XFCE a lot, but MATE is a more mature code base with less bugs to be honest |
| 07:08.15 | humpled | :\/ |
| 07:08.17 | CrazyTux | ok |
| 07:08.26 | kts | Yeah, KDE. |
| 07:08.28 | rant | CrazyTux: cinnamon is what mint uses and its got a nice clean look to it and is fairly similar to MATE |
| 07:08.41 | CrazyTux | ok |
| 07:08.45 | humpled | mate is horrid tho |
| 07:08.58 | magic_ninja_work | tfgbd_, bring back XP! |
| 07:09.02 | CrazyTux | how much RAM and CPU does KDE use? |
| 07:09.07 | CrazyTux | on Debian. |
| 07:09.09 | rant | only if as I said earlier that you are particularly interested in modern ui designs |
| 07:09.12 | rant | !de usage |
| 07:09.12 | dpkg | de usage is probably The HDD/RAM usages of the 7 Stretch DE on amd64 VirtualBoxes with 1GB RAM / 32GB HDD are as follows as reported with only their terminals running df -Th and free -h: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE 3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M |
| 07:09.14 | magic_ninja_work | CrazyTux, here |
| 07:09.26 | magic_ninja_work | Like 2.5-3 GB ram |
| 07:09.30 | magic_ninja_work | CPU next to none/ |
| 07:09.45 | rant | fwiw, I made that factoid testing all those on virutalbox |
| 07:09.47 | magic_ninja_work | I like KDE, a lot. |
| 07:09.50 | CrazyTux | ok |
| 07:09.52 | *** join/#debian oo_miguel (~miguel@89-72-186-97.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 07:09.54 | Kon- | No DE should be using 2 GB RAM on a freshly logged in desktop |
| 07:10.01 | CrazyTux | thanks a lot for that info. |
| 07:10.02 | *** join/#debian hexyul (~omonk@unaffiliated/omonk) |
| 07:10.14 | *** join/#debian elwisp (~elwisp@178.73.210.32) |
| 07:10.29 | Kon- | Yeah, the figures above are more representative of what you'll see when logged in |
| 07:10.40 | magic_ninja_work | I have other stuff running. |
| 07:10.51 | rant | CrazyTux: you can also install multiple desktops and choose them from the login screen |
| 07:10.58 | CrazyTux | ok |
| 07:11.00 | magic_ninja_work | Primarily firefox |
| 07:11.21 | rant | CrazyTux: by default however many redundant menu entries will be in the menus as each DE has its own text editor, calculator, filemanager, etc.. |
| 07:11.21 | CrazyTux | suppose I want to isntall and run Windows in Virtual Box, which DE would you recommend? |
| 07:11.27 | magic_ninja_work | with a couple basic apps and a web browser you can expect to see 2-3GB usage. |
| 07:11.30 | tfgbd_ | I don't get a login screen because I need CHroots |
| 07:11.30 | Kon- | DE doesn't matter for virtualbox |
| 07:11.47 | CrazyTux | Kon-: DE for the Host OS. |
| 07:11.56 | CrazyTux | with Debian as the Host OS. |
| 07:12.02 | rant | CrazyTux: the DE is irrelevant for a windows guest.. and often using crossover or wine is better than a guest OS for many things |
| 07:12.03 | Kon- | Whatever suits your taste. There's no performance difference |
| 07:12.17 | tfgbd_ | Not for development. |
| 07:12.18 | CrazyTux | ok |
| 07:12.30 | tfgbd_ | Wine doesn't have network drivers for Virtual PC. |
| 07:12.46 | CrazyTux | my computer has only 4 GBs of RAM. Runs on Intel Core i3 cpu. |
| 07:13.11 | rant | tfgbd_: I have used crossover for playing GTA San Andreas Multiplayer online |
| 07:13.12 | Kon- | On 4GB I might avoid GNOME |
| 07:13.15 | magic_ninja_work | CrazyTux, I would stay away from Gnome. |
| 07:13.25 | magic_ninja_work | Do you have an SSD ? |
| 07:13.32 | rant | and I use it also for a windows browser to use xfinity stream |
| 07:13.37 | *** join/#debian bla (~bla@unaffiliated/bla) |
| 07:13.40 | CrazyTux | magic_ninja_work: no. its HDD. |
| 07:14.00 | rant | CrazyTux: which generation i3? |
| 07:14.05 | magic_ninja_work | I would hit up some used parts on ebay if you can spare. |
| 07:14.31 | Kon- | A hardware upgrade is not required to have a good experience on Debian. Certainly better than Windows |
| 07:14.33 | CrazyTux | rant: I think 5th gen |
| 07:14.41 | magic_ninja_work | If around $150 isn't in the budget, than you can make what you have work. LxQt is NICE. |
| 07:14.41 | CrazyTux | rant: 2.0 Ghz |
| 07:15.10 | rant | CrazyTux: yeah, thats plenty for a good desktop experience.. but if you wanna run a windows guest with 1GB or more ram dedicated to it you may want to try get additional ram for better performance |
| 07:15.22 | magic_ninja_work | ^^ |
| 07:15.32 | CrazyTux | ok |
| 07:15.35 | Kon- | Oh yeah, running VMs on 4GB isn't going to be super great |
| 07:15.36 | tfgbd_ | Windows never needs a hardware upgrade. |
| 07:15.36 | magic_ninja_work | And with an older machine like you probably have, you can likely get used ram for cheap on ebay. |
| 07:15.49 | CrazyTux | can we install all the packages in Windows in VBox? |
| 07:15.52 | tfgbd_ | 4GB isn't older anymore. |
| 07:16.02 | tfgbd_ | Some 2016 laptops come with 1GB |
| 07:16.03 | magic_ninja_work | SSD's are now super-cheap too. I just got a 1 TB SSD for like 120, so you could upgrade for sub-100 |
| 07:16.06 | CrazyTux | the same way we can install on Windows when installed on the hdd? |
| 07:16.12 | tfgbd_ | Perfect for Devian, right |
| 07:16.30 | rant | CrazyTux: yes, windows isnt aware its not running on native hardware |
| 07:16.31 | tfgbd_ | I got a 3TB HDD for $30 or so. |
| 07:16.41 | CrazyTux | rant: ok |
| 07:16.50 | *** join/#debian esro (~esro@91.231.45.1) |
| 07:16.57 | rant | CrazyTux: personally I like VirtualBox because its dead simple to use and I also like its seamless mode and ability to easily save and resume state |
| 07:17.04 | CrazyTux | I will consider this option of upgrading the RAM then. |
| 07:17.13 | Kon- | CrazyTux: What is your goal in running a Windows VM? If the answer is not "development work" then maybe there's a better solution |
| 07:17.33 | magic_ninja_work | CrazyTux, can we get a machine manufacturer and model / service tag? |
| 07:17.38 | rant | CrazyTux: yes with your CPU you can probably max out at 16GB and merely doubling to 8GB would be enough to comfortably run a couple guests |
| 07:17.41 | tfgbd_ | What is native hardware |
| 07:17.48 | CrazyTux | Kon-: I want to use some packages on Windows. Those can't be installed on Linux easily. |
| 07:18.03 | CrazyTux | magic_ninja_work: how? |
| 07:18.22 | tfgbd_ | packages on Windows? |
| 07:18.27 | tfgbd_ | Windows calls them installers |
| 07:18.28 | magic_ninja_work | just who made your computer and what model it is. Should be printed somewhere unless it is a franken computer |
| 07:18.44 | CrazyTux | I want to install SAP IDES on Windows. |
| 07:18.44 | tfgbd_ | Or are you running Debian ON TOP OF Windows as a process? |
| 07:18.57 | magic_ninja_work | CrazyTux, it is a perfectly legitimate work flow. I use a windows 10 VM for my design work. |
| 07:19.02 | Kon- | CrazyTux: I highly recommend trying your Windows applications in Wine. I think quite a few IDEs run well in Wine. |
| 07:19.53 | CrazyTux | magic_ninja_work: Asus. CPU: Intel Core i3-5005U 2.0 Ghz. Memory:4 GB. HDD: 1 TB. |
| 07:20.37 | CrazyTux | Kon-: SAP IDE will have to be installed on Windows only. |
| 07:21.02 | rant | Kon-: near as I can tell these "sap ide" arent what you think |
| 07:21.25 | rant | Kon-: its not an integrated development environment, its more a test bed for network analysis near as I can tel |
| 07:21.27 | CrazyTux | sorry. it's SAP IDES. |
| 07:21.39 | Kon- | Ahh, okay |
| 07:21.56 | CrazyTux | this one. https://wiki.scn.sap.com/wiki/display/HOME/IDES |
| 07:22.29 | magic_ninja_work | Now perhaps you can find the model somewhere |
| 07:23.11 | CrazyTux | magic_ninja_work: ok |
| 07:23.11 | rant | magic_ninja_work: what could you possibly gain from the model? |
| 07:23.16 | magic_ninja_work | is that that? |
| 07:23.18 | magic_ninja_work | https://uk.store.asus.com/asus-x540la-xx438t-15-6-laptop-intel-core-i3-5005u-2-0-ghz-processor-4-gb-ram-1-tb-hdd-windows-10.html |
| 07:23.29 | rant | the core architecture has all the hardware on the CPU, down to the video, USB, etc |
| 07:23.47 | rant | there is nothing in any mfg spec you can possibly need to know :P |
| 07:23.51 | rant | other than UEFI specification |
| 07:24.04 | Kon- | I'm kind of amazed they ship Windows 10 on 4GB RAM |
| 07:24.12 | magic_ninja_work | rant, help them out by making usre they know exactly what kind of ram the system has. |
| 07:24.14 | rant | the core arch is practically a SoC |
| 07:24.24 | rant | you know what kinda ram it has by the CPU |
| 07:24.28 | rant | it only supports one type |
| 07:24.30 | CrazyTux | 4 GB RAM not enough for Windows? |
| 07:24.37 | CrazyTux | Windows 10 ? |
| 07:24.43 | magic_ninja_work | CPU doesn't tell you what the board supports. |
| 07:24.48 | rant | only difference could be configuration.. how many slots and max supported.. the board could support less than the chip |
| 07:24.49 | magic_ninja_work | How many slots, etc |
| 07:25.26 | rant | they didnt ask for help on buying ram, anyhow |
| 07:25.27 | winny | CrazyTux: 2GB according to https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4028142/windows-10-system-requirements . I used to run Win7 in a vm with only 1 GiB, just fine for basic visual studio needs |
| 07:25.28 | magic_ninja_work | That is a pretty important detail if someone is to spend some money based on advice recieved in here. |
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| 07:26.16 | CrazyTux | winny: till when Win 7 is going to be supported? |
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| 07:26.19 | magic_ninja_work | <CrazyTux> I will consider this option of upgrading the RAM then. |
| 07:26.25 | magic_ninja_work | based on your advice rant |
| 07:26.29 | rant | magic_ninja_work: I'm not tryin to be an ass here, you just seem to be harping on an issue that isnt really important. |
| 07:26.42 | rant | magic_ninja_work: they said they'd consider it.. they didnt ask for help on the matter :P |
| 07:26.58 | magic_ninja_work | And they have no clue on what paricular ram they need. |
| 07:27.02 | rant | this is a debian support channel, they havent yet installed debian or asked about buying ram.. just sayin |
| 07:27.29 | magic_ninja_work | Yet they are making a consideration of changing over, and have specified that they will need a windows VM in the process. |
| 07:27.34 | *** join/#debian Gyro (~user@x5f74421f.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 07:27.48 | rant | if they asked about ram, I can tell based on the CPU which ram they need, only thing is how many slots they have.. and if they can't figure that out by peekin inside they shouldnt be upgrading the ram in the first place |
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| 07:28.07 | rant | they should call a certified tech like myself to do it in such case :P |
| 07:28.29 | CrazyTux | what I was asking is which DE on Debian 10 would be more comfortable with Windows installed in a VBox? |
| 07:28.30 | rant | in linux you could probe the DMI and find out.. |
| 07:28.40 | rant | CrazyTux: thats totally irrelevant |
| 07:28.50 | rant | CrazyTux: the DE would have no effect on the guest |
| 07:28.53 | magic_ninja_work | I agree with rant on that one. |
| 07:29.01 | CrazyTux | rant: what about the RAM usage? |
| 07:29.07 | magic_ninja_work | heh |
| 07:29.25 | rant | CrazyTux: you want to do some higher end testing in windows, so you dont want to try doing this with only 4gb ram probably regardless |
| 07:29.29 | CrazyTux | wouldn't DEs like Gnome and KDE use more RAM and CPU? |
| 07:29.42 | magic_ninja_work | yes, they do |
| 07:29.47 | rant | CrazyTux: 4gb ram is a fair minimum for a GOOD quality desktop experience on debian.. alone.. without a guest.. |
| 07:29.55 | CrazyTux | ok |
| 07:30.00 | *** join/#debian frgo (~frgo@p5B0B74F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:30.01 | rant | leaving plenty of room for extra tabs in a browser, disk caching, oepning a lot of files.. etc |
| 07:30.25 | CrazyTux | how about dual booting Windows with Debian? |
| 07:30.26 | rant | windows similiarly.. esp win10 doing enterprise type test scenarios will want that much itself |
| 07:30.34 | rant | so you want 8gb minimum I'd say |
| 07:30.43 | rant | so you can give windows 4gb of its own while the VM is running |
| 07:30.49 | Kon- | It's one thing if you were doing these same workloads natively, but just running the VM will reduce your RAM set aside for work by at least half |
| 07:31.03 | magic_ninja_work | Ohhhh, but do they need a 4GB chip or an 8GB chip ?? :) |
| 07:31.10 | tfgbd_ | I ran debian and more Windows with 128mb on my server and was pretty satisfied. |
| 07:31.14 | rant | yes.. I dont understand what the hell this SAP IDES is but it sounds complicated |
| 07:31.17 | tfgbd_ | So I dunno what this 5GB meme is. |
| 07:31.29 | *** join/#debian elios (~gbh@unaffiliated/elios) |
| 07:31.33 | Kon- | Depends on the workload tfgbd_ |
| 07:31.45 | rant | tfgbd_: are you aware of the fact we are in 2019? IDK what year you're communicating to us from |
| 07:31.46 | Kon- | I'm not sure you were running a graphical Windows session on 128 MB of RAM |
| 07:31.57 | tfgbd_ | This was back in 2011 or so. |
| 07:31.59 | CrazyTux | SAP IDES would need 4 GBs of RAM and about 250 GB HDD space. |
| 07:32.02 | rant | Firfox wont even launch on 128MB ram if it had all that to itself |
| 07:32.02 | tfgbd_ | No. |
| 07:32.04 | tfgbd_ | less |
| 07:32.06 | rant | today |
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| 07:32.09 | tfgbd_ | Debian had 128mb |
| 07:32.10 | winny | all i know is 1 GiB is a bit tight for compiling linking a linux kernel with debug symbols, but honestly you can do a lot on the desktop with 1GiB if you don't install heavyweight software choices :) |
| 07:32.16 | tfgbd_ | Because that's all they "sell" for free |
| 07:32.30 | tfgbd_ | I compiled VMware too. |
| 07:32.35 | rant | Firefox with a single tab is gonna be using like 512MB ram all to itself.. with an <html></html> page loaded |
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| 07:32.42 | rant | welcome to 2019.. heh |
| 07:32.48 | tfgbd_ | I had Firefox open with about 20 tabs. |
| 07:32.52 | humpled | somehow i picture tfgbd_ walking round the office waving their hands and literally warbling |
| 07:32.58 | rant | yeah.. well this isnt 2011 anymore |
| 07:33.16 | tfgbd_ | Then why are we still reccomending 4GB and not 40GB |
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| 07:33.22 | tfgbd_ | I had 3GB laptops win 2006 |
| 07:33.24 | rant | shit has drastically changed where desktop requirements are concerned particularly if any modern browser is involved |
| 07:33.36 | Kon- | CrazyTux: Were you running SAP IDES before on this same laptop? |
| 07:33.37 | tfgbd_ | So it's Chromes fault. |
| 07:33.44 | tfgbd_ | Dunno. |
| 07:33.53 | tfgbd_ | It was SATA |
| 07:33.59 | rant | yes, we dont disagree with you that the browsers and the web has gotten ridiculous |
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| 07:34.06 | rant | but c'est la vie as the french say |
| 07:34.18 | tfgbd_ | Some can't buy more RAM. |
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| 07:34.24 | tfgbd_ | Because they are mobile. |
| 07:34.25 | magic_ninja_work | You can download more |
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| 07:34.31 | CrazyTux | Kon-: ok |
| 07:34.38 | tfgbd_ | Does that actually work now? |
| 07:34.39 | BazookaTooth | make dillo great again |
| 07:34.56 | winny | links -g is actually usable on many sites |
| 07:34.56 | rant | CrazyTux: can you peek inside and see how many ram slots you have and how many are occupied/free? |
| 07:35.10 | Kon- | CrazyTux: That was a question from me to you. I was asking if you are currently doing SAP IDES work on this computer? |
| 07:35.35 | CrazyTux | Kon-: no. I am yet to get that software and install it. |
| 07:35.39 | winny | CrazyTux: u can check the output of dmidecode, hwinfo, lshw for memory slot configuration too (ymmv in understanding the results though) |
| 07:35.45 | CrazyTux | rant: how? |
| 07:36.10 | pragomer | hi. I am actually using "devilspie2" to organize specific programs to certain workspaces. this works with two exceptioins: xfce4-terminal and hexchat. I seems that I dont know their exact "Program Name".. does anybody has an advice for me? |
| 07:36.25 | rant | CrazyTux: this is my point.. he was asking about your model and crap to advise on buying ram.. and thats irrelevant if you dont even know enough to look inside.. then you dont know enough to install more ram |
| 07:36.32 | rant | you'd have to consult a technician regardless |
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| 07:37.00 | rant | the 5th Gen Core i3 supports 16GB DDR3 at either 1333 or 1600 I know this already |
| 07:37.10 | rant | I could tell you exactly which ram will work in it.. |
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| 07:37.40 | rant | these are the kinds of things you know when you've taken the CompTIA A+.. its all on the test :P |
| 07:37.42 | CrazyTux | rant: ok |
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| 07:38.18 | Kon- | CrazyTux: do you know which version of IDES you have to use? |
| 07:38.23 | rant | but if you dont know enough to open the case and look and see where the ram is and how many slots you have, then you cant install it, therefore you can't buy it.. someone has to do it for you |
| 07:38.24 | winny | it's funny how many mobos are moody about specific ram products too, e.g. i've had boards that won't run the ram at its max speeds because the mobo firmware didn't know about that product |
| 07:38.24 | tfgbd_ | I didn't think of it for the screenshot. |
| 07:38.32 | tfgbd_ | It's getting heavy. |
| 07:38.47 | rant | winny: yeah its more common in laptops.. for power/heat reasons |
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| 07:39.06 | magic_ninja_work | Oh BS. You can watch a youtube video on how to do a ram upgrade. |
| 07:39.20 | grumble | wooohoo |
| 07:39.25 | CrazyTux | Kon-: may be this one. SAP_ECC_v6.0_SR3_IDES_ |
| 07:39.25 | rant | University of YT :D |
| 07:39.26 | magic_ninja_work | Anyway, have fun. |
| 07:39.40 | magic_ninja_work | https://www.memorystock.com/memory/ASUSX540LA.html |
| 07:39.46 | Putti | Question regarding upgrading to Buster from Stretch: Are the iptables rules converted automatically to nftables syntax and upgraded so that no unwanted packets get through? I just have a simple deny all rule + allow established. |
| 07:39.51 | grumble | 'Debian 10 "buster" released' is an amazing email to see after waking up \o/ |
| 07:40.08 | stefanos82 | greetings everyone. Is everything alright with server syncing? Here's what I get for my testing system "E: Repository 'http://debian.otenet.gr/debian testing InRelease' changed its 'Codename' value from 'buster' to 'bullseye'" |
| 07:40.09 | Putti | grumble, yup :) |
| 07:40.16 | tfgbd_ | What about on Snapdragon 835 |
| 07:40.19 | stefanos82 | I guess it must be a hiccup |
| 07:40.25 | elwisp | grumble: agreed |
| 07:40.41 | rant | stefanos82: no, its a change in apt that is trying to protect you from strange behavior |
| 07:40.44 | grumble | i will boldly go where probably plenty of people have gone in the past 6 hours and attempt to update my irc box |
| 07:40.51 | rant | !apt suite changed |
| 07:40.51 | dpkg | If you were already using Debian 10 "Buster" prior to it being released as stable, apt complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change |
| 07:41.06 | grumble | if i don't make it back here, it was nice knowing you |
| 07:41.06 | rant | stefanos82: this apprently applies to you as well ^^ |
| 07:41.10 | stefanos82 | rant: I have tried the --allow-releaseinfo-change and did not change anything |
| 07:41.14 | stefanos82 | the message remains the same |
| 07:41.14 | rant | grumble: :P |
| 07:41.17 | humpled | pragomer do you know the command xwininfo |
| 07:41.27 | rant | stefanos82: have you tried using apt instead of apt-get? |
| 07:41.39 | stefanos82 | always apt in place of apt-get |
| 07:41.42 | CrazyTux | magic_ninja_work: so this laptop has only one memory slot? |
| 07:42.07 | pragomer | xwininfo did not show me the correct program name, but this helped (the debug config file): |
| 07:42.09 | rant | stefanos82: apt doesnt require that option its only for apt-get |
| 07:42.22 | pragomer | http://i.imgur.com/YWDGpZH.png |
| 07:42.30 | pragomer | so, problem already solved ;-) |
| 07:42.52 | rant | stefanos82: regardless you're in the wrong channel for your issue, you should be in #debian-next on OFTC ( irc.debian.org or irc.oftc.net ) |
| 07:43.04 | stefanos82 | rant: lsb_release -a still displays buster instead of bullseye |
| 07:43.06 | humpled | pragomer: cool |
| 07:43.11 | magic_ninja_work | CrazyTux, most likely, yea. Seems that entire generation did. |
| 07:43.15 | stefanos82 | rant: OK |
| 07:43.26 | rant | stefanos82: afaik lsb is mostly a joke in debian |
| 07:43.49 | CrazyTux | magic_ninja_work: so. the only option would to install an 8 GB memory in that one slot. |
| 07:43.49 | themill | stefanos82: /etc/debian_version won't change until a new version of base-files is uploaded |
| 07:43.51 | CrazyTux | ? |
| 07:43.56 | magic_ninja_work | Yes. |
| 07:43.57 | tfgbd_ | I forgot but I needed to use VMWare headless on debian with 128mb |
| 07:44.01 | tfgbd_ | Not that I needed to. |
| 07:44.04 | stefanos82 | themill: thanks for letting me know |
| 07:44.11 | tfgbd_ | But I needed more ram. |
| 07:44.15 | magic_ninja_work | Do you have a preferred vendor? Ebay, amazon, etc? |
| 07:44.29 | CrazyTux | magic_ninja_work: amazon |
| 07:46.31 | magic_ninja_work | CrazyTux, I'll PM you links to avoid spamming channel |
| 07:46.41 | CrazyTux | ok |
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| 07:51.05 | magic_ninja_work | is this the only debian chat room |
| 07:51.18 | magic_ninja_work | I know a lot of channels are moving to discord, but that is against debian philosophy |
| 07:51.34 | magic_ninja_work | Rather, does debian have plans to move to a more modern platform? |
| 07:52.10 | themill | is yet to see a "more modern" platform that is actually better |
| 07:52.40 | Kon- | KDE recently moved onto Matrix, for example. It's own server, not the Matrix.org host |
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| 07:52.59 | magic_ninja_work | their irc is still pretty active, though |
| 07:53.13 | elwisp | irc just never dies |
| 07:53.14 | Kon- | Of course. There are birdges as well |
| 07:53.15 | magic_ninja_work | Yea, I honestly prefer irc to discord. |
| 07:53.18 | Kon- | bridges, even |
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| 07:54.41 | blackflow | obligatory: https://xkcd.com/1782/ |
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| 08:08.14 | rant | magic_ninja_work: I haven't gotten to work on it yet, cause I'm not a very good programmer and have no experience working on stuff other people will use.. but I've identified some issues and outlined an idea for a series of realted projects I think will be necessary for such adjustment to our support apperatus in the future |
| 08:09.15 | magic_ninja_work | So your plan is to build a solution in-house? |
| 08:10.16 | rant | magic_ninja_work: https://git.fosscommunity.in/kathryntolsen/diss |
| 08:10.25 | rant | magic_ninja_work: my idea is to build around what we already have |
| 08:10.40 | rant | leaving everything as-is with supplemental integration that is opt-in |
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| 08:12.33 | BlackBishop | Hi peeps. Trying to install buster on an dell 1950 (esxi 5.5). I get a "No kernel modules were found." window :| |
| 08:13.03 | BlackBishop | any ideas ? |
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| 08:14.24 | BlackBishop | using the netinst iso from the download page :| |
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| 08:16.06 | magic_ninja_work | That isn't a bad idea at all |
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| 08:17.15 | BlackBishop | magic_ninja_work: ? |
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| 08:17.35 | magic_ninja_work | rant, that is a hell of a task |
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| 08:17.54 | magic_ninja_work | BlackBishop, not sure. Where do you get that message? |
| 08:18.11 | BlackBishop | in the installer |
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| 08:19.00 | NetTerminalGene | new debian names are coming with toy story 4 |
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| 08:20.00 | NetTerminalGene | i read there is calameras installer is coming with new live cd. does it support full disk encryption? |
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| 08:21.08 | BlackBishop | I boot off the iso, select the language, the location, keyboard, detects the network, configures it, I configure the hostname, I choose the mirror (ftp.us.debian.org), skip the proxy, it's downloading stuff off the mirror |
| 08:21.10 | BlackBishop | then this shows up |
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| 08:21.30 | BlackBishop | No kernel modules were found. This probably is due to mismatch between the kernel used by this version of the installer and the kernel version available in the archive. |
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| 08:21.57 | BlackBishop | If you're installing from a mirror, you can work around this problem by choosing to install a different version of Debian. The install will probably fail to work if you continue without kernel modules. |
| 08:22.18 | BlackBishop | and of course it fails to detect a disk after this. |
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| 08:27.38 | rant | magic_ninja_work: yes, it is.. but I see it as necessary at the rate shit is going :P |
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| 08:28.27 | elwisp | got this error upgrading to buster: https://paste.debian.net/1090574/ I simpöy removed libvirt-daemon-system and ran full-upgrade again it kind of just said it was done. Wondering if om still on some of the old packages? |
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| 08:32.44 | themill | elwisp: that output is sort of meaningless on its own |
| 08:33.10 | elwisp | themill: that was all i got though |
| 08:33.44 | elwisp | it stopped the upgrade it seemed |
| 08:33.57 | elwisp | or did it just throw it at the end when it was done. Not 100% sure how apt works |
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| 08:35.14 | themill | it repeats a small part of the error at the end, but rarely has enough details to help |
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| 08:37.14 | elwisp | alright, i rebooted the system now and everything seems fine so i think i am in the clear |
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| 08:46.48 | gour | morning |
| 08:47.54 | rindolf | gour: hi |
| 08:47.58 | gour | i plan new install (possibly switching to sid) and consider whether to use separate /home and/or to reduce / 30G --> 25G to save some space |
| 08:48.04 | gour | rindolf: hiya |
| 08:48.38 | rindolf | gour: a separate /home is a good idea |
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| 08:49.42 | gour | rindolf: ok. i tried yesterday with lvm install, but it looks as grub requires separate /boot...otherwise i'm gertting 'OS not found' on my netbook |
| 08:49.46 | annadane | i've sometimes wondered whether it's generally a good idea, but for security reasons, but off-topic |
| 08:50.26 | rant | yes, a seperate home is great if you arent yet at the point of stability in your understanding/use because it allows you to more easily reinstall without worrying about your data |
| 08:51.12 | annadane | though i suppose most stuff gets dumped in home regardless |
| 08:51.15 | gour | hmm...now i did another non-lvm install and it seems the problem is not due to root under lvm, but due to bios/gpt combo...i used to have such problem in the past...(old lenovo e125 netbook) |
| 08:51.24 | rant | the machine I recently sold my cousin I had installed buster on a 32gb m.2 ssd and he then bought a 1tb sata hdd to go in there and set that as his /home which I think is a nice way to do things.. |
| 08:51.47 | gour | so, either i should do simple bios/mbr or gpt/uefi install |
| 08:52.27 | gour | i bet you'd recommend uefi one? |
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| 08:54.35 | rant | I put my T440 into legacy and used mbr with encrypted lvm on my ssd |
| 08:55.22 | rant | didnt want to fuss with that uefi crap.. but its apprently not real difficult now with buster |
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| 08:56.08 | gour | right. i also consider uefi is crap, but just thinking about the future... |
| 08:56.27 | tfgbd_ | some countries only have UEFI. |
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| 08:56.41 | rant | yeah well doesnt seem to me like the people who concieved UEFI were thinking about the future |
| 08:56.49 | tfgbd_ | Didn't you know what "64-bit only Ubuntu" meant? |
| 08:56.54 | rant | cause seems to me like in terms of this subject they took us back decades |
| 08:57.05 | gour | lol |
| 08:57.06 | *** join/#debian soee_ (~soee@bmk80.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 08:57.15 | rant | back to when you needed a boot flag and small boot partition |
| 08:57.16 | *** join/#debian Haxxa (~Harrison@180-150-30-18.b4961e.mel.nbn.aussiebb.net) |
| 08:57.24 | rant | feels ridiculous to me |
| 08:58.02 | gour | nods |
| 08:58.25 | rant | but then when I was very young.. and they first told me about the 1s, 10s, 100s, 1000s, place in base 10 then said 10,000s, and 100,000s I was quite confused at first |
| 08:58.36 | jan6 | when have you ever NEEDED a boot partition? (lvm and raid and encryption and such special setups excluded) ;P |
| 08:58.40 | rant | how do you go from tens to hundreds and thousands, back to tens and hundreds :P |
| 08:59.02 | annadane | very carefully? |
| 08:59.06 | rant | jan6: we're talking ancient dos sacrificial rites here |
| 08:59.19 | gour | jan6: grub should handle lvm without separate boot these days? |
| 08:59.19 | rant | and thats what this whole efi parition crap feels like |
| 08:59.34 | tfgbd_ | QEMU of course |
| 08:59.53 | tfgbd_ | AARCH64 needs boot files for 'prototyping' |
| 09:00.13 | jan6 | shudders at the thought of systemd-boot becoming the default eventually, since someone'll push for it hard enough |
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| 09:03.11 | *** join/#debian maxcell_ (~denis@unaffiliated/maxcell-/x-2263867) |
| 09:03.32 | maxcell_ | i getting this: E: The repository 'http://security.debian.org/debian-security testing/updates Release' does not have a Release file. |
| 09:04.03 | maxcell_ | what should i use instead of testing? |
| 09:04.51 | jan6 | ...the stable version? |
| 09:05.02 | rant | maxcell_: irc.oftc.net and #debian-next or buster, and track into the new stable release |
| 09:05.35 | rant | in which case you may need to also observe |
| 09:05.40 | rant | !apt suite changed |
| 09:05.40 | dpkg | If you were already using Debian 10 "Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use 'testing' in your sources.list, apt complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change |
| 09:05.45 | maxcell_ | somebody can tell me whats the codename of the testing right now? |
| 09:05.52 | rant | maxcell_: bookworm |
| 09:05.55 | rant | not supported here |
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| 09:06.35 | rant | maxcell_: I'm sorry its bullseye |
| 09:06.41 | rant | bookworm is the one after that :P |
| 09:06.57 | maxcell_ | ok... |
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| 09:07.00 | maxcell_ | thank you |
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| 09:07.28 | blackflow | three bees in a row. bustre, bullseye, bookworm |
| 09:07.50 | annadane | bullshit |
| 09:07.56 | BlackBishop | and still no idea why my installer fails to find kernel modules :)) |
| 09:08.31 | rant | blackflow: you can switch to devaun, and you wont have that problem :P |
| 09:08.43 | rant | they plan to release a different letter sequentially |
| 09:09.03 | blackflow | who said I had a problem with that :) |
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| 09:09.25 | blackflow | besides, Devuan is not respecting init freedom. I can't install systemd. |
| 09:09.32 | rant | blackflow: b b b b.. |
| 09:09.36 | rant | blackflow: haha.. good point |
| 09:09.36 | jelly | !slap blackflow |
| 09:09.37 | dpkg | strikes a resounding *THWAP* across blackflow's face |
| 09:09.45 | Butt3rfly | chuckles |
| 09:09.45 | maxcell_ | why not debian-next at freenode? |
| 09:09.46 | blackflow | dpkg: behave. |
| 09:09.46 | dpkg | blackflow: i haven't a clue |
| 09:10.01 | blackflow | !botsnack |
| 09:10.01 | dpkg | :), blackflow |
| 09:10.09 | rant | maxcell_: because all debian specific channels are on OFTC now, its the official network |
| 09:10.29 | annadane | consider it punishment for asking debian testing questions in freenode |
| 09:10.31 | rant | maxcell_: here we only have the legacy #debian from when this was the official debian irc network |
| 09:10.35 | jelly | maxcell_, "testing" typically does not have a security repo, and also using names whose contents change under your feet like "stable" or "testing" for repos can bite you in the arse |
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| 09:11.36 | maxcell_ | so bullseye doesn't have a security repo list?/ |
| 09:11.41 | jelly | safer to usecodenames in sources.list |
| 09:11.45 | tfgbd_ | https://i.imgur.com/AUF3U3e.png |
| 09:11.54 | tfgbd_ | Why does it install so much crap? |
| 09:12.07 | jelly | maxcell_, correct |
| 09:12.10 | annadane | why does what install so much crap? |
| 09:12.31 | maxcell_ | jelly, i don't follow, how can it be? |
| 09:12.44 | jelly | maxcell_, how can what be? |
| 09:13.01 | tfgbd_ | picture |
| 09:13.02 | maxcell_ | tfgbd_, its called dependencies |
| 09:13.06 | tfgbd_ | qemu |
| 09:13.16 | tfgbd_ | qemu is only 30mb |
| 09:13.20 | maxcell_ | jelly, testing does not having a security repo |
| 09:13.22 | annadane | dependencies are small... |
| 09:13.25 | rant | I am getting the impression tfgbd is an acronym for something involving "troll for ... debian" |
| 09:13.26 | blackflow | you probably isntalled recommends and it pulled in some GUIs |
| 09:13.29 | blackflow | tfgbd_: ^^^ |
| 09:13.42 | tfgbd_ | It's a GUI FOR QEMU |
| 09:13.45 | blackflow | I like using only qemu-system-x86 |
| 09:13.46 | jelly | maxcell_, only stable and oldstable have security repos |
| 09:13.54 | blackflow | cli qemu ftw |
| 09:14.03 | tfgbd_ | buy exagear |
| 09:14.40 | annadane | actually on buster 'qemu' just installs qemu... i'd thought it had a truckload of deps, unless i have the wrong package |
| 09:14.44 | maxcell_ | jelly, what should we do on testing then? |
| 09:14.45 | jelly | maxcell_, testing contains packages from unstable that haven't been too buggy for 5 days or so since theie creation and upload |
| 09:15.00 | tfgbd_ | I'll try testing new soon |
| 09:15.08 | annadane | never mind, i'm an idiot... |
| 09:15.16 | jelly | maxcell_, use stable is you need security fixes. |
| 09:15.22 | tfgbd_ | What do I type. |
| 09:15.43 | maxcell_ | jelly, so i should use the stable repo for security only to get a little more safe? thats it? |
| 09:16.23 | annadane | depends on your threat model and what your needs are, i suppose |
| 09:16.34 | jelly | maxcell_, no, I meant if you need security promises do not use testing AT ALL |
| 09:16.40 | maxcell_ | tfgbd_, dude you have like 1.000 tabs openned on your browser oO |
| 09:16.51 | blackflow | maxcell_: testing eventually gets the same security fixes that go into stable, just not as quickly. |
| 09:16.58 | jelly | blackflow, that's not true |
| 09:17.01 | blackflow | oh? |
| 09:17.16 | blackflow | wait, aren't all changes trickling down from unstable? |
| 09:17.22 | annadane | testing mostly gets the security fixes from unstable, with a delay |
| 09:17.22 | jelly | nope |
| 09:17.23 | maxcell_ | blackflow, yeah i always used testing repo for security repo but jelly is telling me right now it doesn't exist.. |
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| 09:17.43 | blackflow | pretty sure if there's an OOO patch for stable, it'll eventually get synced in through unstable or else you have split brain problem in debian and a maintenance nightmare |
| 09:17.43 | annadane | but it doesn't have an official security repository, so i mean |
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| 09:18.13 | jelly | maxcell_, "always" would have been 2-3 months tops, since it's _created_ only in the final run of a release cycle, and even then it's mostly empty |
| 09:18.34 | blackflow | maxcell_: jelly is right tho' about that part. |
| 09:18.52 | blackflow | my comment was only about the flow of updates for packages. |
| 09:18.57 | maxcell_ | i really doesn't understand a single thing you guiys are saying |
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| 09:19.14 | maxcell_ | sorry |
| 09:19.20 | maxcell_ | its too confusing |
| 09:19.30 | OerHeks | testing repo = proposed? |
| 09:19.49 | jelly | blackflow, security fixes for stable work are ALWAYS backported separately and uploaded as distinct source+binaries. Packages from unstable NEVER drop directly to stable. |
| 09:20.46 | maxcell_ | i have a problem with an "possible" stable debian machine |
| 09:20.56 | jelly | even if the very same upstream version is a fix, say, for firefox-esr, uploads to unstable and stable are separate builds and separate debian versions |
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| 09:21.20 | tfgbd_ | Reading package lists... Done |
| 09:21.20 | tfgbd_ | Building dependency tree |
| 09:21.20 | tfgbd_ | Reading state information... Done |
| 09:21.20 | tfgbd_ | The following additional packages will be installed: |
| 09:21.20 | tfgbd_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:21.21 | tfgbd_ | Suggested packages: |
| 09:21.21 | tfgbd_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:21.21 | *** kick/#debian [tfgbd_!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (flood) |
| 09:21.23 | blackflow | jelly: yes I know, but codebases get evened out eventually, that's what I meant. |
| 09:21.36 | jelly | blackflow, that's dangerously misleading |
| 09:21.40 | maxcell_ | i only changed it to testing because i needed to install an app called "stremio" (it needed some dependencies that weren't on buster) that was the only thing it installs, so if i come back to buster i will be pretty much OK. |
| 09:21.48 | blackflow | jelly: due to the nature of backporting patches, it's coming from the future version of the package that will end up in unstable and testing anyway, most likely. |
| 09:21.55 | blackflow | jelly: perhaps. |
| 09:22.12 | maxcell_ | in that case, can i install stremio's deps using a backport instead? |
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| 09:23.04 | gigirock | hi all , is the party here ? |
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| 09:23.14 | blackflow | jelly: and on the other hand, sometimes testing get fixes sooner than stable |
| 09:23.19 | jelly | maxcell_, in general you should never add a _newer_ release repo to stable, that's destined to break things |
| 09:23.36 | jelly | blackflow, that's also almost never true for security fixes |
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| 09:23.49 | jelly | other bugs, sure |
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| 09:24.04 | annadane | testing gets security updates the slowest, between sid testing and stable |
| 09:24.10 | jelly | ^ |
| 09:24.42 | maxcell_ | annadane, so what is called the repo for security on testing machines? because i'm getting this error: Err:2 http://security.debian.org/debian-security testing/updates Release |
| 09:24.42 | maxcell_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:24.49 | maxcell_ | as it doesn't exist |
| 09:25.22 | grumble | whoops so i just wanted to upgrade a host from stretch to buster, turns out that was still running jessie |
| 09:25.30 | jelly | maxcell_, THERE ISN'T ONE |
| 09:25.37 | blackflow | jelly: when I scout CVEs I'm pretty sure I've seen testing fixed and stable vulnerable, for some packages. |
| 09:25.54 | blackflow | now I can't give you a specific example OTOH, but I'm sure I've seen it. |
| 09:26.15 | jelly | blackflow, that may be, but is entirely accidental |
| 09:26.16 | blackflow | could be side-effect of testing pulling in a newre versions that has the CVE fixed, and stable is not yet backported. |
| 09:26.23 | maxcell_ | jelly, ok so i use stable there? |
| 09:26.43 | jelly | maxcell_, if you need security fixes, reinstall stable. |
| 09:26.51 | jelly | and use that. |
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| 09:27.16 | maxcell_ | i think i remember, a time i downloaded an testing cd from debian.org |
| 09:27.23 | maxcell_ | it uses stable security repo |
| 09:27.26 | maxcell_ | i'm almost sure |
| 09:27.33 | jelly | that's unlikely |
| 09:27.35 | maxcell_ | better then nothing i gess |
| 09:27.36 | grumble | maxcell_: security fixes for "testing" are usually just put in the normal testing repos. you don't need a separate security repo (and the stable security repo won't help you if you add it) |
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| 09:28.08 | jelly | grumble, there are no intentional security fixes for testing. It's just normal flow of packages. |
| 09:28.10 | grumble | however, thats done on a best-effort basis and you have no guarantee you'll get security fixes at any given time on testin |
| 09:28.12 | blackflow | okay, here's one example. CVE-2018-5740 fixed in buster, and jessie even, but not in stretch. (let's ignore the fact that buster is _now_ stable, this CVE is from last year) |
| 09:28.29 | maxcell_ | ok |
| 09:28.49 | maxcell_ | that's a little sad |
| 09:28.55 | maxcell_ | but |
| 09:29.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1522] by debhelper |
| 09:29.14 | annadane | not as sad as the ending to forrest gump |
| 09:29.15 | maxcell_ | they said i can't use backports on stable so i gess that's the only way |
| 09:29.21 | jelly | blackflow, and there's a note at the bottom explaining it |
| 09:29.24 | annadane | what? yes, you can |
| 09:29.30 | jelly | !cve lookup CVE-2018-5740 |
| 09:29.30 | dpkg | Information about the security advisory CVE-2018-5740 may be found at https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2018-5740 |
| 09:29.37 | maxcell_ | for now |
| 09:29.39 | annadane | for what? backports? that's the point of backports |
| 09:29.44 | annadane | what do you actually need? |
| 09:29.59 | maxcell_ | stremio aren't on flatpak's nor appimage anymore so |
| 09:30.36 | maxcell_ | gotta wait a little |
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| 09:30.43 | annadane | You have searched for packages that names contain stremio in all suites, all sections, and all architectures. Sorry, your search gave no results |
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| 09:31.06 | annadane | it's not even in sid, so why are you using testing? |
| 09:31.12 | jelly | blackflow, bundling fixes for minor security issues is not unusual |
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| 09:32.04 | jelly | blackflow, and this looks to be a DoS depending on a feature upstream says is "rarely used" |
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| 09:33.43 | maxcell_ | well thank's again |
| 09:33.43 | jelly | blackflow, security team prioritizes their work |
| 09:34.00 | maxcell_ | i gotta get to sleep now |
| 09:34.11 | maxcell_ | thanks for the conclusions |
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| 09:34.52 | annadane | in other news i abandoned my dist-upgrade because i ran into a bunch of dependency conflicts and didn't feel like doing dist-upgrade it one go before upgrade so hurrah, fresh install it is |
| 09:35.00 | annadane | in one go* |
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| 09:36.07 | jelly | if you mean a release upgrade, saying that is more clear than calling it the same way as an apt-get command which is NOT used for (just) release upgrades |
| 09:36.25 | annadane | yeah yeah, release upgrade |
| 09:36.34 | jelly | thank you |
| 09:37.15 | annadane | i should tell my 2 year in the future self to not be so lazy and just fix it manually |
| 09:38.05 | maxcell_ | jelly, if i back to stable, nothing changes except i will need to uninstall stremio and it's dependencies |
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| 09:38.35 | tarzeau | when will debian new queue be processed again? |
| 09:38.37 | jelly | maxcell_, you can't "go back to stable" if you installed stuff from testing. |
| 09:38.55 | maxcell_ | i'm thinking in a better way to install it, instead of switching to testing |
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| 09:39.32 | jelly | maxcell_, if you installed any packages, they will be bigger versions than what's in stable forever, and you'll never get security fixes |
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| 09:41.45 | jelly | tarzeau, don't think there's many people in freenode's #debian left to answer that |
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| 09:42.18 | annadane | wake them up by poking them with a stick |
| 09:42.27 | maxcell_ | jelly, funny, i come back to stable and it doesn't uninstall stremio automatically |
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| 09:42.35 | annadane | what is stremio??? |
| 09:42.38 | maxcell_ | after apt update and stuff |
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| 09:42.46 | annadane | i searched packages.debian.org for it in all releases and found nothing |
| 09:42.49 | maxcell_ | i think he isn't aware of whats going on |
| 09:42.59 | tfgbd_ | who? |
| 09:43.15 | jelly | maxcell_, debian never uninstalls stuff automatically you explicitely manually asked to be installed |
| 09:43.34 | tfgbd_ | How do I make export DISPLAY=localhost:0 happen on every start of my app |
| 09:44.06 | rant | put it before the command |
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| 09:44.16 | rant | VAR=VAL COMMAND |
| 09:44.53 | kale | tfgbd_: export DISPLAY=localhost:0 |
| 09:45.51 | maxcell_ | propbably because i use gnome and most dependencies of stremio was Qt5 things |
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| 09:47.18 | annadane | also, "come back to stable"... i guess buster did just release so the fact 'testing' is in the sources.list may not be too bad but... |
| 09:47.46 | tfgbd_ | does dist upgrade (or whatever) still work? |
| 09:47.59 | espera_satelita | yes |
| 09:48.05 | annadane | in general? yes |
| 09:48.16 | tfgbd_ | what debian do I get with that |
| 09:48.28 | espera_satelita | but read carefully what is it going to install and/or uninstall |
| 09:48.53 | *** part/#debian townie (~clem@119.200.147.135) |
| 09:48.58 | annadane | i mean, what does your sources.list say, are you still on stretch wanting to update to buster? |
| 09:49.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1531] by debhelper |
| 09:49.09 | maxcell_ | jelly, i can uninstall just the packages i install from testing, i have it right here |
| 09:50.08 | tfgbd_ | How do I check my debian version from debian? |
| 09:50.13 | maxcell_ | annadane, no i was on buster and i needed some deps like this: libqt5test5 libqt5webengine-data and some more. To install stremio (downloaded from website) |
| 09:50.15 | jelly | !debian suite |
| 09:50.16 | dpkg | cat /etc/debian_version (or lsb_release -sc). Or check /etc/apt/sources.list. If unsure about the distribution, $ cat /etc/{*version*,*release*,*issue*} should grab almost all distributions. |
| 09:50.21 | jelly | tfgbd_, ^ |
| 09:50.23 | kale | tfgbd_: lsb_release -a |
| 09:50.26 | espera_satelita | are you on buster no? |
| 09:50.29 | espera_satelita | now |
| 09:50.41 | espera_satelita | do sudo apt-get upgrade |
| 09:50.47 | maxcell_ | i'm on buster but with those deps installed. |
| 09:50.52 | maxcell_ | nothing changes |
| 09:50.56 | jelly | maxcell_, look at dpkg and apt logs to see all the dependencies it pulled |
| 09:50.56 | espera_satelita | those deps from testing |
| 09:50.59 | espera_satelita | ? |
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| 09:51.18 | jelly | maxcell_, if there are many, the safest thing is to reinstall. |
| 09:51.27 | tfgbd_ | deb http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main |
| 09:51.28 | tfgbd_ | deb http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main |
| 09:51.28 | tfgbd_ | deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ stretch/updates main |
| 09:51.28 | tfgbd_ | deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian stretch-backports main |
| 09:51.31 | espera_satelita | paste the ouptut of sudo apt-get dist-upgrade somewher |
| 09:51.37 | espera_satelita | and send the link here |
| 09:51.50 | tfgbd_ | oops |
| 09:51.50 | jelly | maxcell_, use something like this to find out which packages come from repos that you don't have enabled any more: |
| 09:51.52 | maxcell_ | jelly, https://paste.debian.net/1090585/ |
| 09:51.53 | tfgbd_ | stretch |
| 09:51.54 | jelly | !not available |
| 09:51.55 | dpkg | To get a list of packages you have installed now, that are not available from any repository in your sources.list: aptitude search '?narrow(?not(?archive("^[^n][^o].*$")),?version(CURRENT))' |
| 09:52.08 | espera_satelita | so just replace stretch by buster and do apt update; apt-get upgrade; apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 09:52.12 | maxcell_ | jelly, that were the deps |
| 09:52.22 | espera_satelita | and read carefully everything it shows on the screen |
| 09:52.31 | maxcell_ | espera_satelita, yes from testing https://paste.debian.net/1090585/ |
| 09:52.34 | tfgbd_ | Isn't there anything more permenant that can preserve the version in case someone edits sources.list like you tell people to? |
| 09:52.45 | annadane | apt-mark hold |
| 09:53.05 | espera_satelita | remove stremio, upgrade your OS and install stremio again |
| 09:53.21 | jelly | maxcell_, you HAVE TO check the logs to see if that install also _upgraded_ some existing packages in addition to installing extra ones. |
| 09:53.22 | maxcell_ | espera_satelita, if i tried, it will say it doesn't have those deps to install |
| 09:53.38 | maxcell_ | jelly, how can i do that? |
| 09:53.40 | *** part/#debian ad0ptedBoy (~wuyaxu@117.151.164.70) |
| 09:53.45 | espera_satelita | which deps? purge stremio at all |
| 09:53.55 | jelly | do what, read the logs? less /var/log/dpkg.log |
| 09:54.02 | annadane | less /var/log/apt/history.log | grep libqt5test5 |
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| 09:54.15 | jelly | maxcell_, or just use the aptitude command above |
| 09:54.27 | jelly | annadane, that's not exhaustive. |
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| 09:54.34 | annadane | fair enough; sorry |
| 09:54.34 | jelly | annadane, what if their libc6 got upgraded |
| 09:54.46 | annadane | well, it would show in the same upgrade transaction |
| 09:54.49 | maxcell_ | libc-ares2 got updated.; |
| 09:54.54 | maxcell_ | i will paste |
| 09:55.03 | tfgbd_ | Need to get 17.3 MB of archives. |
| 09:55.10 | tfgbd_ | Is that all the upgrade is? |
| 09:55.11 | jelly | maxcell_, downgrading may or may not work. |
| 09:55.27 | jelly | or it may appear to work. |
| 09:55.40 | maxcell_ | because of libc? |
| 09:55.50 | tfgbd_ | it lists libc |
| 09:55.57 | jelly | that was just an example of a common dependency. |
| 09:56.02 | espera_satelita | tfgbd_, if you have testing already than yes, otherwise no |
| 09:56.09 | tfgbd_ | How do I tell |
| 09:56.22 | tfgbd_ | The following packages will be upgraded: base-files gnupg gnupg-agent gpgv libc-bin libc-l10n libc6 libdns-export162 libisc-export160 libssl1.0.2 libsystemd0 libudev1 locales multiarch-support perl-base systemd systemd-sysv tzdata udev wget |
| 09:56.44 | espera_satelita | it isn't whole system |
| 09:57.02 | espera_satelita | do you have buster already |
| 09:58.02 | maxcell_ | https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/tnje3ThvWoTGiimkb6eT2A jelly annadane |
| 09:58.37 | annadane | yeah, not exhaustive, i'm not thinking clearly |
| 09:59.17 | maxcell_ | that's ok |
| 09:59.28 | tfgbd_ | Why do you end support at all. |
| 09:59.37 | maxcell_ | what you think i should do? |
| 09:59.40 | tfgbd_ | You sound like closed source developers like Apple. |
| 09:59.58 | maxcell_ | maybe back to testing and wherever? |
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| 10:00.23 | maxcell_ | or just uninstall everything on that list? |
| 10:00.52 | annadane | i'm going to let someone else answer this because my mental faculties are going to hell because i'm tired |
| 10:01.02 | maxcell_ | thats ok |
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| 10:01.46 | maxcell_ | i feel you haha |
| 10:01.55 | maxcell_ | my eyes are burning |
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| 10:02.25 | tete_ | hi, why is /sbin not anymore in the path variable after upgrading from debian 9 to 10? |
| 10:02.48 | rant | tete_: because you're not root? |
| 10:03.09 | tete_ | when i do a source /etc/bash.bash_rc as root, it is still not there |
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| 10:03.34 | rant | yeah, thats what I do to check my path too.. |
| 10:03.40 | rant | </sarcasm> |
| 10:04.17 | rant | id && echo ${PATH} |
| 10:04.29 | tete_ | uid=0(root) gid=0(root) Gruppen=0(root) |
| 10:04.37 | tete_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:05.06 | rant | did you type what I said or did you put sudo in front of it? |
| 10:05.23 | tete_ | i do not allow root login, so i login as user with ssh and then i do a "su" - i would have assumed that it does some kind of "source /root/.bashrc" or "source /etc/bash.bash_rc" after that su automaticaly |
| 10:05.34 | tete_ | i did what you wrote |
| 10:05.42 | tete_ | i am root now at that machine |
| 10:06.38 | humpled | how can you do su if you don't have root logins? |
| 10:06.47 | tete_ | root logins over ssh |
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| 10:07.04 | humpled | but you have a root password |
| 10:07.06 | rant | tete_: no, it doesnt, su preserves environment unless you do su - |
| 10:07.14 | rant | tete_: the - tells it to make it a login shell |
| 10:07.17 | tete_ | ok i will try that |
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| 10:07.37 | humpled | i use $ sudo -i , is that bad? |
| 10:07.40 | tete_ | that worked |
| 10:07.44 | tete_ | thanks |
| 10:07.52 | tete_ | just curious because in debian 9 it was working with "su" only |
| 10:08.10 | rant | shouldnt have afaik |
| 10:08.19 | rant | sudo su maybe |
| 10:08.24 | rant | cause then sudo handles the env |
| 10:08.42 | rant | but su only changes the env if its told to make it a login shell |
| 10:08.46 | kale | tete_: sudo is an option to run a single command as root, and also controlling which commands are allowed. if you intend to run more than one command. "su -" is IMHO preferred. |
| 10:09.08 | maxcell_ | jelly, i've separeted everything that was installed during the apt install stremio and put it on a text file |
| 10:09.16 | maxcell_ | now just blows everything and i'm ok? |
| 10:10.25 | tete_ | kale, thanks, i do administration stuff now for a couple of hours and dont want to sudo all the time, thats the reason why i use "su" |
| 10:10.45 | kale | tete_: the "-" is important, use "su -" |
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| 10:12.20 | maxcell_ | what a good work guys |
| 10:12.21 | kale | tete_: i believe ubuntu is responsible for all the "sudo make me a sandwich" stuff. i personally think its abuse. "sudo, sudoedit â execute a command as another user", was its original purpose. |
| 10:12.31 | maxcell_ | everything was removed succesfully |
| 10:12.33 | maxcell_ | :D |
| 10:12.46 | at0m | kale: 36hrs ago, some other channel: < at0m> after tomorrow, i predict a flood of "su doesn't work anymore" in #d :> |
| 10:13.10 | at0m | so yea in buster it takes "su -" with the "-" |
| 10:13.49 | at0m | su also gets all the env right, sudo doesnt. just try to run "env" as user, then "sudo env" |
| 10:14.16 | kale | at0m: but thats on purpose. if you just run "su", then you get the environment of the calling user. which could trick the root user to call the wrong "ls" command. So you need to add "-" to make sure you get the right environment. Thats by design. |
| 10:14.16 | humpled | sudo -i gets the path right |
| 10:14.46 | at0m | kale: right. $PATH would be one of the things affected. |
| 10:15.42 | at0m | !su |
| 10:15.42 | dpkg | su is, like, switch/set user. It is used to change User ID's and/or gain super user access. |
| 10:16.03 | at0m | could use an update |
| 10:16.25 | at0m | wish i remembered how |
| 10:17.57 | gour | <PROTECTED> |
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| 10:18.12 | maxcell_ | hey, when i try to install stremio now it actually find the dependencies needed, that means i just seem to have downgraded but i didn't? |
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| 10:23.27 | Ericounet | update to buster perfect :) no glitches ; thanks for the good work! |
| 10:24.46 | tfgbd_ | How did you do it |
| 10:24.59 | tfgbd_ | and what hw did you use? |
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| 10:29.47 | kale | at0m: which update is that? |
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| 10:30.24 | Ericounet | it's an old laptop, i386 (ACER) |
| 10:30.45 | Ericounet | I modified the sources.list |
| 10:30.56 | Ericounet | and apt update && apt dist-upgrade |
| 10:31.19 | Ericounet | strecth -> buster |
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| 10:31.29 | Ericounet | *stretch |
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| 10:32.10 | Ericounet | more an upgrade than an update ... |
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| 10:34.40 | NetTerminalGene | guys, if you upgrade, it uses X11. you should chose wayland manually |
| 10:35.09 | wxie | Hi, just updated from stretch to buster. Facing one problem: fcitx missing my pinyin input which was ok in stretch. Could anyone help? |
| 10:35.10 | at0m | kale: update of the dpkg bot factoid |
| 10:35.22 | at0m | kale: regarding su |
| 10:36.39 | at0m | NetTerminalGene: not for me, not now. as someone here lately said, when another asked "what features am i going to loose with wayland": "the question is more, which are you going to keep" |
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| 10:37.58 | tarzeau | wxie: is that with x or wayland? |
| 10:38.08 | tfgbd_ | x is the future |
| 10:38.09 | Ericounet | wxie, I use ibus .... pinyin, French, Hanzi, Russian perfect |
| 10:38.17 | at0m | NetTerminalGene: so seems a lot of stuff is missing/not working in wayland. idk, i'm not betting on it just yet |
| 10:38.29 | wxie | tarzeau: It is default - wayland. |
| 10:38.32 | tfgbd_ | https://i.imgur.com/SLb7QzG.png |
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| 10:38.44 | tfgbd_ | Not for me. I need to install it with my apps |
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| 10:39.38 | NetTerminalGene | at0m, the only issue i encounter is i can't drag and drop subtitles with mpv player |
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| 10:40.36 | wxie | tarzeau: Do you install ibus after buster or before buster? |
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| 10:47.04 | jezebel | congratulations on debian 10 :) thanks for all the hard work! |
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| 10:49.14 | NetTerminalGene | guys, i didn't understand what it says https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#calamares-creates-readable-key |
| 10:49.48 | NetTerminalGene | "When installing Debian from live media using the Calamares installer (Section 2.2.13, âNews from Debian Live teamâ) and selecting the full disk encryption feature, the disk's unlock key is stored in the initramfs which is world readable. This allows users with local filesystem access to read the private key and gain access to the filesystem again in the future. " |
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| 10:50.31 | NetTerminalGene | does that mean people can see password in the unlock stage? |
| 10:50.52 | NetTerminalGene | or you have to boot first? |
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| 10:53.31 | Kon- | NetTerminalGene: The encryption key can be exposed before logging into the system |
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| 10:54.19 | NetTerminalGene | Kon-, you mean, in gdm? |
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| 10:54.40 | Kon- | Before that. In Initramfs |
| 10:54.45 | NetTerminalGene | :O |
| 10:55.37 | NetTerminalGene | so, people who physical access to computer can get keys? |
| 10:56.19 | NetTerminalGene | Kon-, ^ |
| 10:56.23 | Kon- | It appears so |
| 10:56.35 | Kon- | If you install from Live USB using Calamares (GUI installer) |
| 10:56.39 | NetTerminalGene | it's not acceptable |
| 10:56.55 | NetTerminalGene | it is release critical bug |
| 10:57.18 | Kon- | If you need full disk encryption, use the standard installer |
| 10:58.11 | NetTerminalGene | there is workaround though |
| 10:58.44 | NetTerminalGene | can't they patch it with that workaround? this is ridiculous |
| 10:59.23 | Kon- | None of the default ISOs use Calamares to install |
| 10:59.27 | Kon- | So it's not release critical |
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| 11:02.19 | Kon- | I believe it will be fixed eventually. Last I heard Calamares was not very popular with Debian contributors and it is being maintained by people who run Debian derivative distros (like Netrunner) |
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| 11:07.28 | NetTerminalGene | that bug means noobs can go to hell! |
| 11:07.43 | NetTerminalGene | not acceptable |
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| 11:09.26 | Brigo | Hi, my hdmi monitor stopped working, i was checking for problems and i couldn't find anything, the montior appears in xrandr as disconnected. Any hints, please? |
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| 11:10.36 | tarzeau | Brigo: reboot monitor? check cables are in properly on both sides? |
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| 11:11.53 | Brigo | tarzeau, i checked with 2 different cables and 2 different monitor all working still thist morning. |
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| 11:12.24 | Brigo | i checked with a 3.6 kernel i already had as backup too. |
| 11:12.32 | tarzeau | Brigo: nvidia video card? |
| 11:12.39 | Brigo | radeon |
| 11:12.52 | Brigo | the drivers' logs looks ok |
| 11:12.55 | tarzeau | different cable connectors? you only have hdmi? |
| 11:13.02 | Brigo | and pc |
| 11:13.32 | Brigo | which is working. |
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| 11:13.46 | N3VR1K | Hello |
| 11:13.53 | N3VR1K | Www.albachat.com Join |
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| 11:14.28 | Haxxa | I just upgraded docker on debian 10 from docker-engine and I no longer have my contaibers showing up but /var/lib/docker is populated? |
| 11:14.35 | Haxxa | *contaibers |
| 11:14.39 | Haxxa | *containers |
| 11:14.53 | Haxxa | any ideas on how to import volumes back into docker? |
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| 11:17.26 | metrix | I get the followng message from systemd-logind-service over and over when I ssh into my new Buster box: "Failed to start login service" where do I start troubleshooting this? |
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| 11:20.27 | scott_tams | I have a Debian testing system which I use occasionally, which until this morning had "buster" in the sources.list file. When I saw that, I thought "that's not right, buster's about to become stable, and I want to track testing!" |
| 11:20.38 | Brigo | metrix, i would check journalctl for more info |
| 11:20.50 | scott_tams | So I changed my sources.list to look like this https://paste.debian.net/1090593/ |
| 11:21.20 | scott_tams | and now I get a 404 for the Release file for the debian-security line |
| 11:22.00 | NetTerminalGene | scott_tams, did it ask you yes or no question after apt update? |
| 11:22.48 | scott_tams | oh, yes, that was what triggered this |
| 11:22.52 | scott_tams | I cancelled that process |
| 11:22.56 | metrix | Brigo: Thank you for the quick reply. journalctl and journalctl -x -e return "no journals found" |
| 11:23.41 | scott_tams | but not before hitting "no" on the security suite. Ok, I can see where I messed it up |
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| 11:24.25 | NetTerminalGene | scott_tams, where? |
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| 11:25.29 | Brigo | metrix, as root? are you using systemd? |
| 11:26.24 | scott_tams | ah, I just lost my scrollback history! D: When it asked if I wanted to accept the changes of "buster" moving from "testing" to "stable" on the "debian-security" channel. When it asked me the NEXT question, I hit Ctrl+C to just cancel the update. So did me selecting "No" there potentially break my configuration for "testing"? oh I guess maybe not |
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| 11:26.40 | metrix | Brigo: yes as root, and yes I am using systemd |
| 11:27.06 | tete_ | assuming the process aborted of upgrading with an error because my disk ran out of space, can i simply continue with apt-get dist-upgrade or do i have to take some special precautions? |
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| 11:28.03 | Brigo | tete_, try apt-get dist-upgrade, if it works then good for you. |
| 11:28.08 | tete_ | that worked |
| 11:28.16 | tete_ | so a reboot should be fine now? ;) |
| 11:28.21 | NetTerminalGene | scott_tams, but shouldn't you say no for testing? |
| 11:28.36 | NetTerminalGene | if you say yes it switches to buster |
| 11:28.40 | Brigo | metrix, odd, it should be showing you all the system logs. |
| 11:28.51 | Brigo | tete_, yes |
| 11:28.56 | scott_tams | it was set in the sources.list to buster before |
| 11:29.02 | scott_tams | when I did the update |
| 11:29.12 | scott_tams | after the update was when I changed it to testing |
| 11:29.24 | scott_tams | if I change it back to buster it works |
| 11:30.03 | scott_tams | !-2:s/update/cancelled update/ |
| 11:30.51 | NetTerminalGene | mine was buster too. after saying yes it stays as buster |
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| 11:31.27 | metrix | Brigo: this is my testing box, that I update before production,, I just ran a standard upgrade, nothing special.. |
| 11:32.02 | metrix | Brigo: going to restore from backup and try the upgrade again... maybe I made a mistake in the upgrade process |
| 11:32.44 | Brigo | metrix, i don't know what is going on. Have you any other log facility like syslog or rsyslog installed? you can check for their files in /var/log |
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| 11:33.03 | scott_tams | https://paste.debian.net/1090594/ |
| 11:34.15 | NetTerminalGene | scott_tams, ok but, you said no. so it should work |
| 11:34.33 | Mathisen | Hello, anyone mind helping me with a php issue after buster upgrade from stretch ? i need php7-3-curl installed but im getting this error after upgrade > https://paste.debian.net/1090595/ |
| 11:35.05 | scott_tams | If I change sources.list to buster it works https://paste.debian.net/1090596/ |
| 11:36.08 | scott_tams | Mathisen, that looks like a problem with the php7.3-curl package to me... |
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| 11:38.30 | Mathisen | scott_tams well i i used a 3.rd party repo when on stretch for php7 " https://packages.sury.org/php " so i may have messed this upp myself but i have removed the 3.rd party repo now. im not sure if i need to purge all my php7-3-* packages and re-install everyting or if it as simple as problem with the package as you say |
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| 11:39.03 | scott_tams | Yeah, I would purge anything from that repo and reinstall if that is the case |
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| 11:48.09 | scott_tams | like all I'm doing is :%s/buster/testing/g in sources.list, then running apt update. In all my prior experience on debian-like systems, that has worked, unless there was a remote repository issue. Is there a way I can get `apt` to show more details about the network requests as it's making them? |
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| 11:48.41 | rocketmagnet | hi everyone, |
| 11:48.46 | Rust3dCor3 | Hi. Im on debian 9.9, should I update via apt to buster? Is i backup my sources.list can I just swap it after foobar install and do apt-get install --reinstall *packages*? |
| 11:50.30 | scott_tams | Rust3dCor3, make sure you make a backup first, but yes, usually, one can just substitute the version names in the sources.list file, then run apt update and apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 11:51.18 | Rust3dCor3 | scott_tams by backup you mean backup of sources.list file? |
| 11:51.27 | scott_tams | No I mean a full system backup |
| 11:51.31 | rocketmagnet | i have a strange problem - i've installed handbreak and now my fonts are gone, when i try fc-cache -fv i get many errors telling me: "invalid cache file (/home/user/.cache/fontconfig) |
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| 11:51.52 | Rust3dCor3 | scott_tams never did such thing. always i made a clean install. any command to do so? |
| 11:52.32 | Rust3dCor3 | scott_tams will borg be ok for it? |
| 11:52.52 | scott_tams | I mean, yes, a clean install is preferred. If you can back up all your data (or keep it on a separate disk) and just nuke the original system with a new image, that is much more likely to go smoothly |
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| 11:53.36 | Mathisen | Rust3dCor3 Borg will be fine.. asuming you talking about borg backup |
| 11:53.45 | scott_tams | Rust3dCor3, yes, at a glance Borg looks like a good option for doing a full backup |
| 11:53.52 | scott_tams | tons of options for that |
| 11:53.53 | Rust3dCor3 | yes we talk about borgbackup |
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| 11:54.42 | Rust3dCor3 | recently i was looking for a tool that will act as a backup tool. just like in android to do nandroid backups |
| 11:55.07 | Rust3dCor3 | will borg do a backup bit by bit so after recovery all my files/configs will be ok? |
| 11:55.39 | humpled | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:56.22 | scott_tams | Not bit by bit https://borgbackup.readthedocs.io/en/stable/#main-features |
| 11:56.25 | scott_tams | it's deduplicated |
| 11:56.44 | scott_tams | If you want bit-by-bit duplication, you want `dd` but TBH I don't see any downside of using Borg |
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| 11:57.39 | Rust3dCor3 | well. deduplication looks faster by me. I have 1 tera hdd |
| 11:57.52 | scott_tams | it also consumes less space in the backup |
| 11:59.39 | Mathisen | Rust3dCor3 you better of just backup upp personal/needed data then doing a fresh install if you gonna upgrade to buster, and if you looking for somrthing like nandroid variation for debian read upp on Aptik. |
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| 12:00.41 | Mathisen | Rust3dCor3 specaly!! if you been using other repos then the standarnd debian ones in you sources.list. just look @ me i just upgraded from stretch to buster and i have 4 packages total that went crazy on me just for using 1 3..rd party repo. |
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| 12:34.25 | tfgbd_ | What CPU is that? i.imgur.com/tk9ybyv.jpg |
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| 12:36.06 | tarzeau | tfgbd_: open computer take out cpu, i'm sure it is labelled |
| 12:36.21 | tfgbd_ | K |
| 12:36.34 | Mathisen | and that seem like a memory adress not a cpu name |
| 12:36.55 | tfgbd_ | The name just isn't supported yet |
| 12:37.23 | tarzeau | i just saw DLL and EXE |
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| 12:37.37 | tfgbd_ | Did you see what was circled? |
| 12:37.46 | tarzeau | sure |
| 12:38.03 | tarzeau | try with linux, cat /proc/cpuinfo or check dmesg output |
| 12:38.41 | tfgbd_ | file chrome.exe |
| 12:38.41 | tfgbd_ | chrome.exe: PE32 executable (GUI) Intel 80386, for MS Windows |
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| 12:38.50 | epony | the CPU information is typically found during system start up screens, in BIOS setup, with kernel diagnostic output or with a CPU ID utility (or |
| 12:38.57 | tfgbd_ | file explorer.exe |
| 12:38.57 | tfgbd_ | explorer.exe: PE32+ executable (GUI), for MS Windows |
| 12:39.07 | tfgbd_ | No CPU listed in your tool either |
| 12:40.01 | epony | tfgbd_ what tool? |
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| 12:41.37 | tfgbd_ | Heres what compiled with gcc: file /home/ubuntu/xqemu-build-aarch64/xqemu/i386-softmmu/qemu-system-i386 |
| 12:41.38 | tfgbd_ | /home/ubuntu/xqemu-build-aarch64/xqemu/i386-softmmu/qemu-system-i386: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, ARM aarch64, version 1 (GNU/Linux), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-, for GNU/Linux 3.7.0, BuildID[sha1]=a8c45048f508a7cc7eecfed1ba5b94c45b42383e, with debug_info, not stripped |
| 12:44.10 | tfgbd_ | How do I crosscompile this for an older lsb? |
| 12:44.17 | tfgbd_ | like the rpi1 |
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| 12:46.49 | irl25519 | Hi everyone. Is there a one-liner shell command for upgrading from Stretch to Buster? |
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| 12:49.13 | tarzeau | irl25519: sed -i s,stretch,buster,g /etc/apt/sources.list;apt-get update;apt-get upgrade;apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 12:50.39 | irl25519 | someone ought to add that to the distro in the form of "do-release-upgrade" :) many thanks |
| 12:50.50 | jmcnaught | irl25519: it's still worth reading the release notes so you know what you're getting, about gotchas etc. |
| 12:51.00 | petn-randall | irl25519: There are release notes that need to be read before upgrading. |
| 12:51.23 | avu | dpkg: stretch->buster |
| 12:51.23 | dpkg | Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> http://deb.li/JFKc . TL;DR: In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "stretch" to "buster", remove stable-specific lines like stretch-backports. apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade. 3rd party repos like <dmo> are known to cause problems with the upgrade. |
| 12:51.38 | irl25519 | i have read them and have disabled 3rd party repos. thanks. |
| 12:51.41 | Mathisen | ,v phpmyadmin |
| 12:51.42 | judd | Package: phpmyadmin on amd64 -- jessie: 4:4.2.12-2+deb8u2; jessie-security: 4:4.2.12-2+deb8u6; stretch: 4:4.6.6-4; sid: 4:4.6.6-5 |
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| 12:52.05 | Mathisen | hmmm no phpmyadmin for buster... well that was sad news :( |
| 12:52.45 | tfgbd_ | file /bin/ls |
| 12:52.46 | tfgbd_ | /bin/ls: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, ARM aarch64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-, for GNU/Linux 3.7.0, BuildID[sha1]=de05fcef79d88af9cf9a71ed38e73af0b179bfb2, stripped |
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| 12:54.05 | tabakhase | blame https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=916310 Mathisen |
| 12:54.20 | irl25519 | i love aarch64 |
| 12:55.02 | tabakhase | also check out "adminer" if youre open to switch and dont rly need much, - otherwise phpmyadmin is kinda just a wget + setting some secrets i think |
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| 12:56.06 | dvs | When will bullseye release? |
| 12:56.08 | dvs | runs |
| 12:56.11 | dekkard | good day. Tips on updating the debian keyring to go with the new apt sources ? |
| 12:56.28 | Mathisen | i can live without it, just nice to have when when working with some CMS. and i will check out adminer thanks. |
| 12:57.00 | tabakhase | supposedly it will show up in backports one day... maybe... |
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| 13:06.56 | dngray | i'm seeing this error updating my debian testing machine: |
| 13:06.58 | dngray | changed its 'Version' value from '' to '10' |
| 13:07.00 | dngray | changed its 'Suite' value from 'testing' to 'stable' |
| 13:07.19 | dngray | it was installed from buster testing media, now that buster is stable i need to make some changes |
| 13:07.23 | blackflow | Mathisen: it's PHP code. you can always download it / github clone it, and stick it into a dir. |
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| 13:07.41 | jmcnaught | dngray: run 'apt update' and accept the changes |
| 13:07.46 | blackflow | Mathisen: and set up nginx with php-fpm to run it |
| 13:07.48 | dngray | jmcnaught: ah |
| 13:08.37 | dngray | jmcnaught: true because i was using apt-get it didn't give me that option |
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| 13:09.14 | jmcnaught | dngray: it would have with 'apt-get --allow-releaseinfo-change update' |
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| 13:09.22 | dngray | right |
| 13:09.46 | dngray | i might add the backports repo now |
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| 13:12.17 | tfgbd_ | Is that ALL sid or whatever is now? |
| 13:12.49 | tfgbd_ | one command and no reboot? |
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| 13:14.27 | tfgbd_ | 25 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them. |
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| 13:24.26 | tabakhase | !apt suite changed |
| 13:24.26 | dpkg | If you were already using Debian 10 "Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use 'testing' in your sources.list, apt complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change |
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| 13:31.42 | aaro | what's the official recommended package tool for debian, i've been using for many years apt-get apt-cache, some time ago i saw aptitude was recommended, is it now apt recommended? |
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| 13:33.06 | a0z | it is my understanding that apt-get etc are maintained for compatibility, and that apt is now the thing to use |
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| 13:33.38 | jmcnaught | Use whichever one you like really. |
| 13:33.39 | petn-randall | aaro: aptitude and apt both use the same backends, so both work fine. |
| 13:34.12 | petn-randall | aaro: As jmcnaught said, whatever you like. Only thing that's different is if you dist-upgrade, the depedency resolution works slightly different on both tools. |
| 13:34.55 | jmcnaught | It's worth noting that for the stretchâbuster release upgrade the release notes say to use apt. |
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| 13:35.49 | aaro | all right thanks |
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| 13:48.08 | velix | Why do the Buster news says, CUPS is installed by default? I don't need/want it on my server. Can I remove it? |
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| 13:48.13 | velix | say* |
| 13:48.13 | n0a110w | anyone got spotify running on i386 buster? |
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| 13:51.53 | jmcnaught | velix: it should only install if you have the print server task selected in the tasksel stage of the installer. cups should be safe to remove, but as always carefully read the list of packages that apt proposes removing with it. |
| 13:52.01 | un214 | apt-get update is complaining about buster becoming stable with a useless recommendation to see man apt-secure |
| 13:52.50 | un214 | If I apply the listed change in apt-secure it would appear it turns off package signing altogether |
| 13:53.44 | jmcnaught | !apt suite changed |
| 13:53.44 | dpkg | If you were already using Debian 10 "Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use 'testing' in your sources.list, apt complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change |
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| 13:54.15 | dury | hi there channel :-) |
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| 13:54.42 | dury | what about buster? |
| 13:54.49 | un214 | ah there we go; doc search wasn't finding it |
| 13:54.55 | un214 | thanks man |
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| 13:56.04 | sjamaan | Hi all |
| 13:56.29 | dury | is buster more robust and stable than stretch, guys? |
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| 13:56.31 | sjamaan | I've upgraded a Stretch system to Buster, but now nsd refuses to start (the config was fine in the old setup and I didn't change it) |
| 13:56.56 | sjamaan | "error: Cannot open /etc/nsd/var/log/nsd.log for appending (Permission denied)" |
| 13:57.07 | sjamaan | I'm using it with a chroot |
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| 13:57.42 | whislock | dury: buster is now the current stable. As for your question, that depends on your usage |
| 13:57.43 | sjamaan | The nsd user has the right permissions |
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| 13:59.22 | Brigo | dury, they both are so tough that is hard to say which one is tougher |
| 14:00.09 | Brigo | sjamaan, well is a permissions issue, so check it thoroughtfully. Maybe the owner of the file or the directory. |
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| 14:00.41 | un214 | upgrading stretch -> buster reinstalled systemd after I had explicitly reinstalled sysvinit-sysv -- maybe something stupid along those lines messed up sjamaan; chroot boot scripts are hard |
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| 14:01.28 | jmcnaught | un214: is systemd acting as init or just installed? |
| 14:01.31 | sjamaan | Brigo: The systemd script for nsd looks really restricted. Maybe that interferes with the chroot setting |
| 14:02.13 | un214 | jmcnaught: it was acting as init until I blasted it back off again |
| 14:02.27 | un214 | consequence: my machine failed to mount /home with a timeout error |
| 14:02.54 | epony | what did you do wrong? |
| 14:03.00 | velix | jmcnaught: ah okay. So it's selectable. "Default" means something different to me. |
| 14:03.15 | velix | jmcnaught: a shell (dash/bash) comes as default f.e. |
| 14:03.36 | jmcnaught | velix: it's selected on the tasksel screen by default, you have to unselect it |
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| 14:04.43 | velix | jmcnaught: seems like the German buster notes got translated wrong then. They say "installed by default" |
| 14:05.13 | jmcnaught | velix: it says that in the english version too, but if you just press enter all the way through the installer you will end up with CUPS |
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| 14:05.55 | velix | I under stand this, but I don't like the writing. |
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| 14:09.51 | velix | jmcnaught: "wording", not "writing". sorry, I'm not native. |
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| 14:10.11 | un214 | "writing" is fine here |
| 14:10.33 | jmcnaught | yeah, no need to apologize either |
| 14:10.52 | sjamaan | Brigo: Yeah, it's one of those settings in the systemd config that's causing the problem |
| 14:12.04 | un214 | if it weren't for the fact you said chroot jail I'd be wondering if we have our first apparmor problem |
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| 14:12.53 | tfgbd_ | Do chroots even use systemd? |
| 14:12.59 | sjamaan | un214: It's this line: CapabilityBoundingSet=CAP_CHOWN CAP_IPC_LOCK CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE CAP_SETGID CAP_SETUID CAP_SYS_CHROOT |
| 14:13.10 | sjamaan | If I comment it out, it starts |
| 14:13.21 | sjamaan | Interestingly, "systemctl restart nsd" does not give me back my prompt |
| 14:13.23 | sjamaan | I have to ^C it |
| 14:13.27 | sjamaan | The service keeps running though |
| 14:13.34 | un214 | wow that's a weird bug; capabatilities shouldn't take away ability to wrote to one's own files |
| 14:13.51 | SpeedyG | yay, just upgraded all my systems to Buster... was 'almost' painless :) |
| 14:14.20 | dury | whislock, better than stretch? |
| 14:14.27 | un214 | good for you; I took your pain and filed half a dozen bugs a few months ago; almost all of them got fixed |
| 14:14.38 | sjamaan | :) |
| 14:14.46 | petn-randall | dury: "better" is a purely subjective thing. |
| 14:14.57 | petn-randall | dury: If in doubt, go with the newer release. |
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| 14:15.05 | cybercrypto | it is really amazing job, of Debian team, the new release. If that not enough... documentation "wise" is super as well... :-) congrats! |
| 14:15.07 | jmcnaught | sjamaan: if you edit the file in /lib/systemd/system it will just get replaced the next time the package is updated. Instead you want to make a file like /etc/systemd/system/nsd.service.d/capabilities.conf and override that directive there |
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| 14:15.27 | un214 | gaaaak |
| 14:15.28 | sjamaan | jmcnaught: How does that work? |
| 14:15.34 | sjamaan | I don't know much about systemd |
| 14:15.50 | jmcnaught | sjamaan: it's called a drop-in, there are more details in 'man systemd.unit' |
| 14:15.54 | sjamaan | Thanks |
| 14:16.01 | dury | petn-randall, well... more stable and robust than stretch I guess |
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| 14:18.06 | jezebel | is there a list somewhere of the default packages? |
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| 14:18.28 | petn-randall | jezebel: There is no real default, just a set of package you decide to install. |
| 14:18.29 | un214 | yeah, on cd1 |
| 14:18.48 | sjamaan | jmcnaught: How do I do that? I added a two-line config there with "[Service]" on line 1 and "CapabilityBoundingSet=" on line 2, but that doesn't work |
| 14:18.58 | jezebel | just want to make a list of things i'll be uninstalling :) |
| 14:19.01 | jezebel | un214⦠thx |
| 14:19.27 | un214 | jezebel: if you want to start with almost nothing, I recommend debootstrap instead |
| 14:19.31 | jezebel | e.g. iptables |
| 14:19.52 | jmcnaught | sjamaan: if you made a new file you probably need to 'systemctl daemon-reload' to let systemd know about it |
| 14:20.00 | sjamaan | I did that |
| 14:20.06 | sjamaan | But it appears that these sets are merged |
| 14:20.19 | sjamaan | I just want it to be reset to the default |
| 14:20.22 | dury | petn-randall, how was your first install of Buster? |
| 14:21.07 | dury | petn-randall, not problem? |
| 14:21.12 | sjamaan | Ah, "CapabilityBoundingSet=~" does the trick |
| 14:21.56 | petn-randall | dury: I hardly do any fresh installs, it's mostly upgrades for me. |
| 14:22.04 | jezebel | hmmm |
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| 14:22.35 | dury | petn-randall, right I see |
| 14:23.57 | dury | all right channel. I'll be back. cheerss everyone |
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| 14:26.56 | un214 | how do I block a package from ever being installed again? apt-hold won't accept a package that isn't currently installed |
| 14:27.57 | Mathisen | apt-mark hold ? |
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| 14:28.28 | un214 | apt-mark hold says can't select because it's not installed |
| 14:28.34 | dvs | un214, Pin-Priority? |
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| 14:31.19 | un214 | dvs: Doesn't work; I had this already |
| 14:31.22 | un214 | Package: systemd-sysv |
| 14:31.22 | un214 | Pin: release o=Debian |
| 14:31.23 | un214 | Pin-Priority: -1 |
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| 14:31.55 | dvs | heh. That worked for me. |
| 14:31.56 | espera_satelita | why on earth would you mask systemd? |
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| 14:32.06 | un214 | because it doesn't work on my system |
| 14:32.15 | espera_satelita | do you have devuan? |
| 14:32.18 | un214 | nope |
| 14:32.30 | espera_satelita | if not, install it. it's just debian without systemd preinstalled |
| 14:32.32 | dvs | un214, It prevented my system from being upgraded so it worked. |
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| 14:32.46 | whislock | Sounds like you broke your system. |
| 14:32.56 | un214 | maybe dependency resolution is stronger than pin -1 |
| 14:33.21 | un214 | whislock: unlikely; /home wouldn't mount as soon as systemd was installed |
| 14:33.30 | espera_satelita | i think apt is forceed to install some system critical pacakges like dpkg, kernel, systemd and so on |
| 14:33.35 | un214 | it's just a mount -a to mount everything no good reason that broke |
| 14:33.44 | espera_satelita | like without which system would be unbootable at all |
| 14:34.43 | whislock | Sounds like you broke your system. /shrug |
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| 14:37.01 | un214 | well considering the fact that grub doesn't work either I think it just doesn't like my hardware |
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| 14:39.16 | un214 | in any case if systemd-sysv were to install now everything would be broken because I made a fake libsystemd0 package to satisfy kde dependency checks |
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| 14:42.29 | jmcnaught | !systemd paranoia |
| 14:42.30 | dpkg | There is no need to waste your time or ours trying to eliminate the string "systemd" from the output of dpkg -l. Installed libraries that are unused are unused; libsystemd0 takes up a whopping 180kB on disk. Having the "systemd" package installed does not imply booting with systemd (that's the systemd-sysv package). Not all packages with "systemd" in their name are even from the systemd source package (see <systemd-shim>). |
| 14:42.51 | petn-randall | un214: What "doesn't work"? systemd-sysv is one piece of the systemd eco system. |
| 14:43.36 | un214 | I couldn't figure out because the system was too degenerate |
| 14:43.45 | un214 | I think I was still in a readonly / at the login prompt |
| 14:45.32 | petn-randall | un214: That sounds like it's completely unrelated to that package. |
| 14:45.36 | petn-randall | !xy |
| 14:45.36 | dpkg | Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem |
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| 14:46.50 | un214 | apt-get switching sysvinit-sysv to systemd-sysv smashed it good and switching back fixed it; what do you expect |
| 14:47.26 | un214 | jmcnaught: as for systemd paranoia: I needed the fastest path I could find out of apt-get complaining about broken deps |
| 14:48.50 | un214 | correction it's libpam-systemd not libsystemd0 |
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| 14:49.01 | petn-randall | un214: sysvinit-sysv doesn't exist in buster, so I don't know where you got that from. |
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| 14:49.44 | un214 | directly out of the cache |
| 14:50.05 | petn-randall | un214: Is the package really called "sysvinit-sysv"? |
| 14:50.22 | un214 | it was; now it's called something else and apt-get replaced it |
| 14:50.33 | petn-randall | ,v sysvinit-sysv |
| 14:50.35 | judd | No package named 'sysvinit-sysv' was found in amd64. |
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| 14:51.09 | petn-randall | un214: In none of the supported releases did this package ever exist. So you'll need to find out where it came from, and probably bug those people on how to get it working with buster. |
| 14:51.14 | un214 | I was almost certainly running this one for a day or so: https://packages.debian.org/jessie/systemd-sysv |
| 14:52.30 | un214 | I'm currently running this one https://packages.debian.org/buster/sysvinit-core |
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| 14:54.52 | un214 | ok right libpam-systemd directly depends on systemd-sysv so that's why everything went haywire |
| 14:55.50 | pja | That seems fairly reasonable. |
| 14:56.19 | un214 | libpam-systemd is a dependency of kde's core libraries |
| 14:56.42 | un214 | the kde desktop depends systemd but the applications really don't |
| 14:57.05 | dvs | un214, that's what I found out |
| 14:57.08 | petn-randall | un214: Ah, ok. Is your goal to get your system running properly, or is your goal to avoid systemd? Because those two might be conflicting goals. |
| 14:57.31 | un214 | I think systemd doesn't support my hardware |
| 14:57.41 | petn-randall | I highly doubt that. |
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| 14:58.49 | un214 | I don't want to try to track down the breakage again with no web browser and no irc (because #debian blocks irc as root) |
| 14:59.47 | un214 | there's only one KDE app left I haven't found a replacement for |
| 14:59.52 | tfgbd_ | Does Inkscape Or GIMP have CYMK color support yet? |
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| 15:00.23 | petn-randall | tfgbd_: Your best bet is to check with the upstream project, since that's a very specific question. |
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| 15:00.39 | tfgbd_ | Does that mean their IRC channel or forums? |
| 15:01.30 | tfgbd_ | It's not very specific. My dad asked and I had to tell him it required hours of work tracking down scripts. |
| 15:01.40 | petn-randall | tfgbd_: Either way, though I'd first check if their documentation covers this topic already. |
| 15:01.41 | tfgbd_ | It's an industry standard. |
| 15:01.52 | tfgbd_ | I checked 10 years ago. |
| 15:02.02 | tfgbd_ | It's something they have to license to use the name. |
| 15:03.06 | tfgbd_ | Sorry, I mean Pantone(R) |
| 15:03.22 | tfgbd_ | Maybe all of them. |
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| 15:08.54 | Deihmos | When I did apt update it didnât show an update is available |
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| 15:09.46 | tfgbd_ | same here |
| 15:09.55 | tfgbd_ | Does it update automagically now? |
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| 15:12.11 | petn-randall | It never worked that way `apt update` just updates the package list. `apt upgrade` will offer you any upgrades. |
| 15:12.15 | petn-randall | (if available) |
| 15:12.48 | Deihmos | Nothing came up in apt upgrade either |
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| 15:15.52 | NetTerminalGene | Deihmos, have you changed sources.list? |
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| 15:17.15 | Debbiex | Hi |
| 15:19.01 | Debbiex | The links at https://sources.debian.org/doc/api/ have been broken since the release of buster. Is there another web API I can use to check for package versions for a package in multiple debian distributions ? |
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| 15:20.17 | jasonwc | Debbiex, I usually use https://tracker.debian.org/ but it's still showing Stable as Stretch |
| 15:21.12 | N3VR1K | Hi |
| 15:21.14 | Debbiex | jasonwc, is there an APi for that page with a JSON output ? |
| 15:21.16 | N3VR1K | Www.albachat.com Join |
| 15:21.23 | Debbiex | I need to curl and jq it |
| 15:21.42 | Wulf | N3VR1K: why? |
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| 15:22.02 | N3VR1K | Is Chat With So Mutch Sexy Girl |
| 15:22.23 | annadane | !yinzersmite N3VR1K |
| 15:22.23 | dpkg | runsover N3VR1K, wif an ambleelunce gowen a hunnert mallanahr. |
| 15:23.04 | N3VR1K | English Plzzz |
| 15:23.20 | annadane | N3VR1K, go away and leave us alone and stop your advertising |
| 15:23.26 | jmcnaught | !ops N3VR1K spamming |
| 15:23.26 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: jmcnaught complains about a problem (see above) |
| 15:23.36 | N3VR1K | LoL |
| 15:23.50 | N3VR1K | Can Stop Dhe Operator On This Server Guys |
| 15:24.32 | petn-randall | N3VR1K: This is the Debian support channel. Only questions regarding Debian are on-topic here. Congrats on installing Kali/Parrot. |
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| 15:35.03 | Muyfret | after following a hardening guide, mate-screensaver cannot recognize the user I logged in with |
| 15:35.43 | Muyfret | Jul 7 11:25:48 Muyfret mate-screensaver-dialog: pam_unix(mate-screensaver:auth): authentication failure; logname= uid=1000 euid=1000 tty=:0.0 ruser= rhost= user=newps |
| 15:35.43 | Muyfret | Jul 7 11:25:49 newps unix_chkpwd[1973]: check pass; user unknown |
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| 15:39.13 | jmcnaught | Muyfret: what hardening guide? What changes did you make to your system? |
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| 15:39.35 | Muyfret | chown root:root on stuff like /etc/passwd |
| 15:39.48 | Muyfret | also chmod og-rwx on /etc/passwd |
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| 15:40.12 | jasonwc | With regard to Release Notes 5.1.6 that says /lib/modprobe.d/systemd.conf sets " options bonding max_bonds=0" by default, has anyone overrided this setting with a custom config? I am using bonding for my main interface |
| 15:40.23 | jmcnaught | Muyfret: that's wrong, /etc/passwd is already owned by root:root but the file needs to be readable by others |
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| 15:42.27 | Muyfret | so I want og+r ? |
| 15:42.43 | jmcnaught | Muyfret: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2470 Jun 10 04:58 /etc/passwd |
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| 15:43.09 | jmcnaught | Muyfret: /etc/passwd doesn't actually have any passwords in it, the password hashes are in /etc/shadow |
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| 15:43.22 | Muyfret | i also did somethings to shadow |
| 15:43.29 | Muyfret | and ghsadow |
| 15:43.35 | Muyfret | gshadow. same things actually |
| 15:43.39 | jmcnaught | Muyfret: sounds like you followed a bad guide |
| 15:45.02 | Muyfret | shadow actually got chmod 600 rather than chmod 644, i also did something /etc/group |
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| 15:46.00 | Muyfret | i did not do og-rwx on /etc/passwd |
| 15:46.13 | humpled | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:46.41 | Muyfret | alright i'll try 640 |
| 15:47.14 | jelly | Muyfret, /etc/shadow is root:shadow 0640 |
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| 15:47.44 | Muyfret | chown root:shadow /etc/shadow ? |
| 15:48.33 | Deihmos | i have to change the source to buster to update? that seems strange |
| 15:48.48 | Muyfret | also does same go for gshadow? |
| 15:49.11 | humpled | yup |
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| 15:50.34 | Muyfret | would gshadow use root:gshadow? |
| 15:50.47 | jelly | Deihmos, if you want to do a release upgrade, don't just change stuff in sources.list. First read the release notes. |
| 15:51.00 | jelly | Muyfret, no, it's the same as shadow |
| 15:51.11 | Muyfret | alright rebooting |
| 15:51.32 | jelly | !buster release notes |
| 15:51.32 | dpkg | The release notes for Debian 10 "Buster" are at https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ . See also <stretch->buster>, <buster install guide> |
| 15:52.12 | Deihmos | i plan to do a clean install. i am just curious how does one know there is a release update if they don't follow debian website. i thought apt update would show it |
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| 15:53.14 | jan6 | mail list and filter that? but fair enough |
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| 15:54.59 | Muyfret | it worked |
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| 15:55.18 | Muyfret | I guess this shows some differences between desktop and server setups |
| 15:55.50 | jmcnaught | Muyfret: one would not change those files on servers either |
| 15:56.22 | LtL | I ran into this today, explaied here, https://micronews.debian.org/ |
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| 15:59.08 | Muyfret | https://www.pluralsight.com/blog/it-ops/linux-hardening-secure-server-checklist I think i got it from here. In the section "14. Permissions and verifications" |
| 15:59.09 | crimson_king | How to resend bugreport mail after it is saved at /tmp/ ? |
| 15:59.15 | crimson_king | reportbug* |
| 16:01.09 | J2KSo2 | hi guys. i'm not able to install my wlan usb adapter... can someone help me? i have a clean debian 9.9 installation... and i'm connected over wire. i can't find any settings for my wlan usb :( |
| 16:02.32 | LtL | crimson_king: if /etc/reportbug.conf isn't configured it probably won't send, copy/paste into a MUA and send it |
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| 16:02.45 | Mathisen | J2KSo2, does it show when runnning lsusb ? and what is the name of the adadpter |
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| 16:05.01 | LtL | crimson_king: fyi- it needs to be formatted properly, read https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting |
| 16:05.29 | J2KSo2 | Mathisen: I think the output of lsusb doesn't contain information about the usb adapter (see https://pastebin.com/Pp0c8fgk). SoataSoa USB Wifi Adapter AC 1200. |
| 16:06.23 | crimson_king | LtL, thanks, will try |
| 16:07.27 | Mathisen | J2KSo2, https://github.com/cilynx/rtl88x2BU_WiFi_linux_v5.2.4.4_26334.20180126_COEX20171012-5044 |
| 16:07.32 | dvs | ,v firmware-realtek |
| 16:07.33 | judd | Package: firmware-realtek on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 0.43; jessie-security/non-free: 20161130-5~deb8u1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-1~bpo9+2; bullseye/non-free: 20190114-1; buster/non-free: 20190114-1; sid/non-free: 20190502-1 |
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| 16:09.56 | jelly | Muyfret, at least some of those settings are a) already default for Debian or b) actively harmful |
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| 16:12.17 | jmcnaught | Lots of bad advice on the internet. |
| 16:12.22 | jelly | Muyfret, or just out of date for a decade or two, like separate /usr partition |
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| 16:14.23 | jan6 | separate /home, and MAYBE /boot, and all's nice and dandy ;] |
| 16:14.24 | jelly | given any specific "hardening" advice, you should try to understand what it's protecting from ("attack surface") and why it's a good idea to protect from that instead of leaving it be ("risk management") |
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| 16:14.57 | dvs | jan6, agrees |
| 16:15.06 | Muyfret | my system has trouble unmounting /var |
| 16:15.11 | magic_ninja_work | Yea, but debian's installer will do: efi, /boot, / and /home which is a good shceme |
| 16:15.42 | jelly | Muyfret, at shutdown/reboot time? That's usually not a big problem. |
| 16:15.51 | Muyfret | yes shutdown |
| 16:16.20 | J2KSo2 | Mathisen: I'm getting: modprobe: FATAL: Module 88x2bu not found in directory /lib/modules/4.9.0-9-686-pae |
| 16:16.35 | jan6 | magic_ninja_work: that's also basically what I described, separate EFI is required for UEFI boot |
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| 16:17.55 | magic_ninja_work | yea |
| 16:18.07 | magic_ninja_work | Never hurts to have a parrot. Squawk! |
| 16:18.29 | magic_ninja_work | The point being, though, that the debian installer does a nice job of setting that up, especially with lvm |
| 16:19.08 | jelly | Muyfret, sshd_config settings there are another bit that's so old the values (for Ciphers in particular) are actively harmful and can prevent you from connecting from a modern ssh client |
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| 16:20.37 | jelly | magic_ninja_work, debian-installer up until debian 9 has done a horrid job of picking separate partitions and their size, I'm VERY glad that' apparently fixed |
| 16:21.49 | Muyfret | since i don't know my root password i will disable root login |
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| 16:24.15 | magic_ninja_work | jelly, well, an issue I ran into is that the /boot partition is too small. |
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| 16:25.21 | magic_ninja_work | just something to be aware of. I had debian on my laptop but the battery life was atrocious. when switching to another distro, but keeping the partition scheme the /boot partition gave me some headaches and I had to shuffle stuff. |
| 16:25.26 | J2KSo2 | Mathisen: still there? |
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| 16:26.14 | Muyfret | seems i don't even have a /etc/ssh/sshd_config file |
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| 16:28.10 | ansyeb | hello. where is the actual data stored in glusterFS on debian? |
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| 16:32.49 | jelly | ansyeb, wherever you configured the bricks to be |
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| 16:39.35 | Marz | doesn't unattended updates notify you when there is a release update? |
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| 16:48.32 | karlpinc | Marz: It notifes you of updates, but AFIK does not remind you when a major OS version is released. |
| 16:48.32 | rrttyy | Is there a way to ascertain the fastest mirror for packages? |
| 16:48.59 | rrttyy | netselect-apt does not work |
| 16:49.13 | rrttyy | apt-spy is outdated |
| 16:49.17 | karlpinc | rrttyy: In theory, deb.debian.org. |
| 16:49.37 | rrttyy | Okay, I'll try that. |
| 16:49.41 | karlpinc | rrttyy: It's supposed to be a CDN, so gets you closest, fastest. |
| 16:50.06 | rrttyy | Okay, cool |
| 16:52.09 | rrttyy | karlpinc: thanks, that works really well. |
| 16:52.18 | *** join/#debian Abdullah (~ak@unaffiliated/abdullah) |
| 16:52.27 | rrttyy | I was switching mirrors and trying to find something that worked decently fast |
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| 16:54.39 | LtL | rrttyy: back in day, I would choose a mirror in a country where they were asleep. I'm in the US, .de mirrors were wicked fast. |
| 16:55.28 | LtL | but who knows what exactly made them 'fast.' |
| 16:55.44 | rrttyy | LtL: Thanks for the tip, I'll keep that in mind. |
| 16:55.59 | rrttyy | I looked up average internet speeds in different countries and chose the highest |
| 16:56.08 | Abdullah | LtL: for me http://mirror.netcologne.de/debian/ is the best |
| 16:56.12 | rrttyy | And the countries with "gaming" servers and other things |
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| 16:56.58 | Abdullah | so which one you found the fastest rrttyy ? |
| 16:57.04 | rrttyy | Abdullah: For me in India, nothing was really fast |
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| 16:57.15 | rrttyy | I'm using deb.debian.org and that works well now |
| 16:57.16 | LtL | rrttyy: now i just do deb.debian.org, as karlpinc suggests. |
| 16:57.22 | rrttyy | same |
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| 17:02.22 | Muyfret | how to i reconfigure dpkg to use a different directory than /tmp |
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| 17:04.45 | Muyfret | i wonder if it's as simple as dpkg --reconfigure-dpkg |
| 17:05.28 | NetTerminalGene | wayland is very smooth |
| 17:05.38 | jelly | Muyfret, short answer is you can't. https://bugs.debian.org/223683 |
| 17:05.40 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/223683 in debconf (open, confirmed): «useless noexec option broken further by debconf»; severity: normal; opened: 2003-12-11; last modified: 2018-01-14. |
| 17:07.24 | jmcnaught | Muyfret: are you doing these hardening changes in a virtual machine? If not then you should consider using VMs so you can break stuff without breaking your computer. Test first. |
| 17:07.48 | Muyfret | i probably should |
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| 17:08.10 | Muyfret | in fact i must. guess it's a good time to grab 10.0 |
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| 17:09.15 | annadane | buster is reeeeally smooth, so far |
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| 17:09.29 | jelly | Muyfret, go set up some free web hosting with php, then you'll quickly see what kinds of exploits are actually getting around and what kinds of mitigations are actually useful |
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| 17:09.59 | jelly | a noexec /tmp is pretty much useless on a private system |
| 17:10.42 | jelly | you want hardening? DON'T implement things without understanding what they're good for |
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| 17:10.55 | GNU\colossus | on buster, will I still need to have bridge-utils installed to have interfaces(5) set up an ethernet bridge for me? (I'm asking since `ip` can do that, too.) |
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| 17:11.15 | SpeedyG | hey, after upgrading to buster, my audio device seems to be inactive and it only plays through hdmi now... how can I get my audio back again? |
| 17:11.39 | jelly | GNU\colossus, I think stretch release notes already said bridges can se set up by ifupdown without them |
| 17:11.55 | epony | well, WHY don't the developers ship a reliable and secure system without the user needing to manually perform complex and error prone steps to make it so |
| 17:12.02 | GNU\colossus | jelly, ah, neat. must have missed that somehow :) |
| 17:12.14 | jelly | epony, because it's a lot of work. |
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| 17:12.39 | SpeedyG | my lspci output is this: http://paste.debian.net/1090627/ < I suspect the 00:1f.3 (Intel audio device, line 12) to be the one I need |
| 17:12.56 | epony | better apply work at competence level, than lots of incompetent work everywhere |
| 17:12.57 | jelly | GNU\colossus, don't trust me on that |
| 17:13.11 | jelly | epony, precisely |
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| 17:14.03 | zleap | hello |
| 17:14.32 | jmcnaught | SpeedyG: have you tried using pavucontrol? Maybe pulseaudio is just using the wrong output device? |
| 17:14.36 | jelly | epony, Debian packages and integration is a work of volunteers for the most part. If you feel some aspects are missing, contribute. |
| 17:15.45 | SpeedyG | jmcnaught: pavu only shows hdmi outputs... |
| 17:15.46 | zleap | hi i have just tried to update my netbook (stretch to buster) I think I hada power failure part way though, as my netbook was off, turning back on it boots so far and then now I have a blank screen with the scren flashing |
| 17:16.05 | zleap | i cna see the mouse cursor but don't seem to be able to switch to a console with ctrl-alt-f1 etc |
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| 17:16.20 | SpeedyG | jmcnaught: althouh aplay does show the device: http://paste.debian.net/1090628/ |
| 17:16.20 | aadam | hey what was that command to check log, then plug in hdd and see changes in log |
| 17:16.26 | zleap | dmesg |
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| 17:16.38 | aadam | not dmesg |
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| 17:16.51 | jelly | zleap, if openssh-server is installed, log in from remote |
| 17:17.03 | zleap | jelly: good idea, then what do I do |
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| 17:18.12 | jmcnaught | SpeedyG: does 'pacmd list-sinks' show the device? |
| 17:18.17 | jelly | zleap, (recommended but options: start screen or tmux, be root, and inside it) run "dpkg --configure -a", then run "apt-get -f install", then redo the last command you were doing |
| 17:18.24 | jelly | optional* |
| 17:18.29 | zleap | ok |
| 17:18.36 | zleap | well i can't login via ssh |
| 17:18.46 | zleap | should i reboot and then try and select something from the boot menu |
| 17:19.14 | jelly | zleap, see if you can reboot with old kernel and get a usable console |
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| 17:19.16 | SpeedyG | jmcnaught: nope, only the HDMI one |
| 17:19.29 | jmcnaught | SpeedyG: do you have timidity installed? |
| 17:19.35 | dtux | is there a CLI for determining where i should store app-specific configs (e.g. appdirs, but without needing a python package)? |
| 17:20.11 | SpeedyG | jmcnaught: looks like it, yeah |
| 17:20.19 | zleap | on the boot menu there is advanced options |
| 17:20.44 | SpeedyG | jmcnaught: this is the output of pacmd: http://paste.debian.net/1090629/ |
| 17:20.51 | jmcnaught | SpeedyG: there's a pretty good chance that timidity is hogging the card, if you don't need it try removing the package, or simply stop it with 'systemctl stop timidity' |
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| 17:20.57 | jelly | SpeedyG, fluidsynth hash rather better sound than timidity |
| 17:21.11 | jelly | but it also eats like 5-30x more cpu |
| 17:21.16 | zleap | 4.0.0.9 and 4.9.0.8 |
| 17:21.38 | zleap | jelly: thanks i will see if that works |
| 17:21.46 | SpeedyG | awesome, stopping timidity works :D |
| 17:21.52 | jelly | zleap, those are both from debian 9 |
| 17:22.03 | jelly | (ie "old") |
| 17:22.11 | zleap | ah ok so maybe deb 10 wasn't fully updated |
| 17:22.31 | zleap | ok still doing the same - flashing screen |
| 17:22.42 | jelly | !nomodeset |
| 17:22.43 | SpeedyG | thanks jmcnaught (and jelly :) ) |
| 17:22.51 | jelly | hmm |
| 17:23.05 | jelly | zleap, do you happen to know which graphic card is in there? |
| 17:23.16 | zleap | intel i think |
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| 17:23.32 | zleap | hp mini netbook |
| 17:23.38 | jelly | zleap, boot with added i915.modeset=0 boot parameter then |
| 17:24.18 | zleap | i have a seperate home partition so should be able to re-install and not lose data on my /home partition |
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| 17:24.35 | zleap | but i will try other stuff first |
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| 17:26.26 | zleap | i can get to a command like grub: if I press c on the boot menu |
| 17:26.28 | zleap | does that help |
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| 17:27.19 | zleap | hang on i will try recovery mode from the boot menu |
| 17:27.35 | zleap | something may be right as console text is a bit bigger |
| 17:28.42 | jelly | zleap, press e instead to edit grub's commands for booting, append the boot parameter to the line starting with "linux" |
| 17:29.37 | jelly | the actuall command line for the linux kernel may be so long that grub shows it wrapping over to second line |
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| 17:29.59 | zleap | i am in recovery mode |
| 17:30.15 | jelly | that is also fine if you know the root password and get a shell. |
| 17:30.38 | zleap | just ran dpkg --configure -a seems to be doing something update related |
| 17:30.53 | jelly | did you start screen or script to log the output? |
| 17:30.55 | zleap | setting up <packagename> |
| 17:30.59 | Error451 | Q. gonna do a fresh Debian install , first time on a physical machine , installed/ran in VMs so that shouldn't be a problem, but never had multiple disks, I could use pointers on making the 2nd storage usable |
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| 17:31.34 | friendofafriend | Error451: Does it already contain data? |
| 17:31.58 | Error451 | no, the second storage is a hardware RAID and fresh |
| 17:32.14 | friendofafriend | Just figure out a mountpoint, and format it. :) |
| 17:32.27 | jelly | Error451, which hw raid controller? |
| 17:32.41 | zleap | jelly: oops, however this seems to be doing something more useful now, |
| 17:32.47 | Error451 | old, it's 2g i7 |
| 17:33.20 | jelly | has no idea what "2g i7" means in terms of hw raid |
| 17:33.39 | Error451 | I mean 2nd generation Intel i7 |
| 17:33.39 | zleap | i am hoping thunderbird is a lot more stable in buster on here |
| 17:34.00 | Error451 | the PC is >8yo, most stuff should be supported I guess |
| 17:34.04 | zleap | jelly: this is now just carrying on from where it left off |
| 17:34.17 | jelly | zleap, that's the idea. |
| 17:34.37 | zleap | thanks |
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| 17:35.06 | zleap | if I re-install can i select weather the installer should format /home |
| 17:35.23 | friendofafriend | zleap: Yes. |
| 17:35.45 | zleap | ok cool so it will pick up the /home partition |
| 17:35.58 | jmcnaught | Error451: are you using a RAID feature built into your motherboard? That RAID array might only ever be usable on that brand/model of motherboard, using Linux software RAID (mdadm) is probably better, and the Debian installer can help you get it set up. |
| 17:36.26 | friendofafriend | You'll see the label, if you labelled it. Otherwise, just note the partition number. You'll need to use the advanced parititoner. |
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| 17:37.04 | jelly | Error451, if you have a discrete hw raid card with battery-backed or flash-backed backup you're probably fine. |
| 17:37.18 | jelly | (except if the card dies, of course) |
| 17:37.29 | Error451 | jmcnaught, I know it installs to the boot disk, I'll check if I can find the RAID in the installer |
| 17:37.43 | Error451 | if it shows up, I should be on easy street |
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| 17:38.03 | jelly | Error451, if it's motherboard based, disable all that crap, put the controller into AHCI mode, and use linux md raid. |
| 17:38.06 | zleap | note to self - install a ssh server for emergency access |
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| 17:38.43 | friendofafriend | Oh gosh, always have SSH. Who needs a head on Linux? ;) |
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| 17:38.59 | Error451 | jelly , the disks in the RAID have crippled firmware , so they won't boot |
| 17:40.13 | jelly | Error451, I can't comment on that until you say which controller you're dealing with |
| 17:40.33 | Error451 | and I am not looking for anything fance at the moment, I just want to revive my PC to store stuuf so I can rebuild my NAS |
| 17:40.44 | Error451 | so I just want a dirty solution |
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| 17:41.15 | jelly | goes for a walk instead |
| 17:43.09 | epsilon | Error451: what's the output of: cat /proc/mdstat, lspci, fdisk -l |
| 17:43.33 | Error451 | I'm sorry jelly, it's my fault, I should specify my question better : can anybody recomend a GUI partition tool for Debian ? |
| 17:44.39 | epsilon | gparted |
| 17:45.11 | Muyfret | https://pastebin.com/D1yD7BRw does this sources.list file seem right? |
| 17:46.47 | Muyfret | all i'm expecting is security updates |
| 17:47.20 | epsilon | Muyfret: cut line 17, 18 is only if you know what you are doing |
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| 17:48.21 | Error451 | ty epsilon |
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| 17:53.19 | ardya | is there a limitation in debian 10 graphical installer regarding lvm? my disk doesn't show in the list of disks to create a volume group |
| 17:53.51 | zleap | is buster 4.19 kernel |
| 17:54.16 | J_C | zleap: yes, buster has the 4.19 kernel |
| 17:54.23 | ardya | trying to do a manual partitioning scheeme using lvm, but theres no disk listed |
| 17:54.29 | zleap | thanks |
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| 17:54.39 | zleap | I think this update is working then |
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| 17:54.46 | J_C | zleap: np. can i ask why you want to know? |
| 17:55.28 | zleap | i had a power fail while updating earlier, was suggested i get to a console and use dpkg --configure -a which I am running now, so out put of that other than setting up packages refered to 4.19 kernel |
| 17:55.46 | zleap | so hopefully i am updating to buster |
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| 17:56.38 | J_C | I see, good luck |
| 17:56.44 | zleap | it is working so far |
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| 17:58.13 | zleap | so that was running at upgrade do I still need to run apt dist-upgrade ? |
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| 17:58.37 | cmptr | How many repos should be in the Sources.list? Should there just be two? Buster and Security? Or should there be three? Buster, Security and Buster-Updates? |
| 17:59.05 | jelly | !buster sources.list |
| 17:59.06 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 17:59.25 | cmptr | Thank you jelly |
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| 18:00.37 | zleap | a good reason to have a fresh install tbe sources.list file can end up a real mess sometimes |
| 18:00.47 | zleap | esp adding extra repositories from 3rd parties |
| 18:00.55 | cmptr | I never do that in the first place. |
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| 18:01.34 | zleap | i added one for weechat so I had a later version, but buster now has that same version |
| 18:01.41 | zleap | so i don't need that in there |
| 18:01.45 | void5f | I had a quick question regarding installing debian. I have to use a non-free image to install debian for my wireless card to work. But does installing from a non-free image, automatically add non-free repos after a fresh install? or how does it work? |
| 18:02.19 | zleap | i think so yes, as far as I can tell the main difference is the lines have non-free in them |
| 18:02.40 | zleap | which you can do manually as far as I understand |
| 18:04.10 | void5f | a friend of mine just recently installed debian from a non-free image and his wireless card works after the install but he doesnt have any non free repos enabled by default. was just curious if that should be the default? |
| 18:04.25 | jelly | void5f, it does not, you still have to add contrib and non-free manually to sources |
| 18:04.45 | zleap | ah thanks |
| 18:04.46 | jelly | because you want upgrades/patches for that firmware |
| 18:04.57 | jelly | should it happen |
| 18:05.14 | zleap | so i add contrib and non free to all 3 line |
| 18:05.19 | jelly | right |
| 18:05.44 | void5f | ah i see. |
| 18:05.51 | zleap | I will see how tb behaves on this netbook and may just re-install it seemed very unstable before |
| 18:05.55 | jelly | and things like intel-microcode for CPU-related security bugs |
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| 18:06.58 | cmptr | This url doens't look the same as what you had shown my jelly http://security.debian.org/debian-security , is it still accurate however? This is what was previously used for the security repo? Or is it not valid because security updates are only for Stable? |
| 18:09.19 | zleap | jelly: so far so good with this recovery mode update to buster |
| 18:09.41 | zleap | i really need a 2nd external back up drive |
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| 18:11.06 | cmptr | I guess what I'm saying is, Is there a difference from deb http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main non-free contrib (I changed the mirror that is used from deb to ftp.ca), and deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free? |
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| 18:13.29 | Deihmos | accessibility installer is a nice addition |
| 18:13.42 | cmptr | I changed the security-debian.org to ftp.ca.debian.org for the debian-security repo, hopfully that doesn't cause any issues. I tested it out, and it seems okay. |
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| 18:15.55 | jhutchins | http://eriberto.pro.br/blog/2019/07/07/debian-repository-changed-its-suite-value-from-testing-to-stable/ |
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| 18:30.40 | nkuttler | so what's the standard method to add parameters to a service with a systemd service file? if i edit it that gets messy with updates. should they support /etc/default/ ? |
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| 18:32.13 | thm | will buster run on a vserver (virtuozzo) container, using a 3.16.0 kernel? |
| 18:32.52 | jmcnaught | nkuttler: you can make a drop-in file like /etc/systemd/system/foo.service.d/myoverride.conf that overrides ExecStart=. Make sure to include a blank ExecStart= before your actual override ExecStart=foo --param because it accepts multiple lines, a blank clears it out |
| 18:33.02 | tabakhase | nkuttler /etc/systemd/system/${SERVICE}.service.d/ ? |
| 18:33.02 | jmcnaught | nkuttler: more about drop-ins in the systemd.unit man page |
| 18:33.24 | nkuttler | jmcnaught: cool, thanks |
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| 18:35.51 | Wulf | thm: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#glibc-and-linux |
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| 18:38.45 | jmcnaught | nkuttler: I forgot to mention that ExecStart= will need to be under a [Service] heading, here's an example of what I mean: http://paste.debian.net/1090631/ |
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| 18:40.52 | Deihmos | i wonder why debian still creates such a large swap space |
| 18:41.47 | Error451 | the installer saw the hw raid, thx for the help |
| 18:43.16 | nkuttler | jmcnaught: ty |
| 18:43.22 | thm | Wulf: thanks. so this answer likely is yes. Do you know whether the preinst check mentioned there can be seen somewhere? |
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| 18:46.33 | Wulf | thm: might be in libc6's preinst script |
| 18:47.11 | thm | https://sources.debian.org/src/glibc/ gives me a 404 |
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| 18:51.34 | jelly | thm, isn't virtuozzo OpenVZ based, not vserver? vserver container are pretty dead |
| 18:52.45 | thm | afaik yes, virtuozzo is openvz based. I am not aware of a product/project named 'vserver', but I think that's the category |
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| 18:58.36 | mashi_tatoes | hi |
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| 19:13.42 | un214 | what's a good recommendation for a replacement for kolourpaint |
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| 19:16.09 | ZenWalker | when we will see buster as stable into official repositories? |
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| 19:16.53 | Sveta | ZenWalker, is it not now? |
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| 19:18.56 | annadane | it is now but please use 'buster' and not 'stable' in your sources list unless you want nasty surprises in 2 years |
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| 19:22.10 | Marz | after installing debian 10 commands like fdisk stopped working. Anyone know how to fix it |
| 19:22.36 | blackflow | Marz: stopped working with what error? |
| 19:22.49 | Marz | command not found |
| 19:23.08 | jmcnaught | Marz: you need to use 'su -l' instead of just 'su' now to get the environment you expect |
| 19:24.36 | un214 | alternate solution: add /sbin and /usr/sbin to your own user's path |
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| 19:25.11 | jhutchins | un214: It's better to learn to work with the system. |
| 19:25.39 | jhutchins | Marz: You can just use "su -" |
| 19:25.43 | duskmourn | if I run a dist-upgrade on Sid now will it stop showing up as Buster? |
| 19:26.14 | jmcnaught | duskmourn: not until a new version of base-files package is uploaded |
| 19:26.20 | duskmourn | oh alright |
| 19:27.10 | jmcnaught | duskmourn: also this is the Debian stable support channel, sid/unstable support is on irc.oftc.net in #debian-next |
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| 19:27.54 | Marz | jmcnaughtok thanks. |
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| 19:28.25 | duskmourn | oh didn't realize they were seperate |
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| 19:29.22 | un214 | su - changes directory as well; back when I still used su that was not always desirable |
| 19:30.08 | Deihmos | i guess everyone use sudo |
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| 19:32.22 | jhutchins | Deihmos: No, some of us use root logins or su - |
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| 19:33.14 | Deihmos | I see |
| 19:33.27 | discovered | I was been running debian buster testing. In source list i have: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free,deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main. I just did apt-get update and apt-get full-upgrade . Am i Okay? |
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| 19:33.46 | un214 | I dropped both after the UAC fallout. sudo immediately and su about a year thereafter. Now I use Ctrl-Alt-F1 exclusively |
| 19:33.47 | jelly | discovered, yes. |
| 19:33.48 | jhutchins | Deihmos: sudo is common in professional environments so there's accountability for who logs in and makes changes. |
| 19:34.00 | jelly | discovered, cat /etc/debian_version |
| 19:34.21 | discovered | jelly, 10.0 |
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| 19:34.41 | jelly | discovered, you're now on stable. |
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| 19:36.19 | discovered | In last few years, i always did the fresh install :) . This time i did the difference heh... I am on now fresh debian buster stable :) |
| 19:37.08 | annadane | i was going to release upgrade but i didn't feel like yelling at WINE dependencies so fresh install it is... |
| 19:37.36 | annadane | should've just installed from backports to satisfy them |
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| 19:39.15 | un214 | yeah wine is a huge dependency headache |
| 19:39.55 | un214 | getting debian to take the latest stable wine in late testing never happens even though it should, because of all the depends |
| 19:40.41 | jelly | I've done a fresh install... around 2001. |
| 19:41.06 | un214 | lol |
| 19:41.47 | un214 | my home debian install was debootstrapped using kubuntu as a source around 2008; however my /home dates from 2004 |
| 19:42.44 | un214 | I've got a bunch of installed software that shows up in dpkg that apt can't find anymore |
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| 19:44.12 | Marz | anyone use sabnzbdplus on debian? |
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| 19:46.08 | discovered | jelly, really? I never broke your system? |
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| 19:47.14 | jelly | you never did. |
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| 19:47.49 | epony | I do frequent re-installs in place, typically at least weekly or sometimes daily, with every new snapshot.. for years. Obviously the process is very efficient and the system keeps up clean and consistent. Never had upgrade problems like that. Obviously a different approach that actually works consistently and is reproducible. |
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| 19:48.12 | jelly | discovered, there's nothing in dpkg/apt package management that can't be fixed to require a full reinstall. Also I have backups. |
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| 19:48.44 | annadane | i wonder if i'd have had less issues than if i'd just used the wine repositories in stretch |
| 19:48.46 | un214 | apt-get remove dpkg will be hard to recover from though |
| 19:48.59 | jelly | epony, Debian or some other distro? |
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| 19:51.24 | ZenWalker | annadane: in packages.debian.org I see buster as testing |
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| 19:51.46 | jelly | ZenWalker, bits and pieces of web ui may take some time |
| 19:51.54 | epony | yes, not Debian or a distro, a different OS.. it's OpenBSD :-) Previously was using a compile and rebuild process with FreeBSD weekly, same result (in place re-install). |
| 19:52.12 | discovered | jelly, So it is usually waste of time doing full reinstall for upgrade...? What debian team recommend? |
| 19:52.15 | jelly | that makes sense. |
| 19:52.35 | jelly | discovered, in-place release upgrades are fully supported. |
| 19:52.41 | un214 | apt-get is deterministic |
| 19:53.02 | jelly | un214, it is, but not all bugs get fixed. |
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| 19:54.28 | ZenWalker | jelly: thanks, and congratulations for this new release :) |
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| 19:56.11 | discovered | Is python2 still in debian 10? |
| 19:56.14 | jelly | epony, if you're talkiing about a workflow that does not actually apply to Debian, it might be worth mentioning that explicitely so other people don't get confused |
| 19:56.21 | jelly | discovered, yes. |
| 19:56.45 | jelly | ,v python2 |
| 19:56.46 | judd | Package: python2 on amd64 -- bullseye: 2.7.16-1; buster: 2.7.16-1; sid: 2.7.16-1 |
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| 19:58.39 | Muyfret | i installed the debian. got my snapshots prepared |
| 19:58.43 | Muyfret | now i'm burn out |
| 19:59.08 | annadane | i think bullseye is actually supposed to drop python 2 |
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| 20:01.01 | jelly | upstream is supposed to drop python2 support around 2020. It remains to be seen what distros are going to do |
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| 20:01.44 | rant | there is still a lot of feet dragging on converting existing code |
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| 20:05.24 | epony | good point, I was also interested in the workflow that applies to Debian and your experience with not needing a fresh install |
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| 20:06.07 | un214 | Al_ is stubborn |
| 20:06.09 | epony | as basically the effect is the same |
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| 20:17.16 | blastwave | would anyone know how to install whatever is needed for NVidia nppGetLibVersion() to work ? |
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| 20:18.11 | blastwave | probably the wrong chan here |
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| 20:18.43 | discovered | If i do apt update i get some error: https://paste.debian.net/1090641/ . |
| 20:18.54 | discovered | Is it normal? |
| 20:18.59 | tabakhase | !apt suite changed |
| 20:18.59 | dpkg | If you were already using Debian 10 "Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use 'testing' in your sources.list, apt complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change |
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| 20:20.20 | jelly | epony, there's always some cruft left but it's manageable. Possibly the worst part of upgrades is Desktop Environment software that does not deal well with old settings. |
| 20:20.59 | plouj | hi, how does db_fset work? Neither https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/debconf-doc/debconf-devel.7.en.html nor http://www.fifi.org/doc/debconf-doc/tutorial.html explain it to me |
| 20:21.10 | jelly | I probably nuked configs for xfce and kde 2-3 times each |
| 20:21.37 | rant | plouj: you may be better served to head over to OFTC ( irc.debian.org or irc.oftc.net ) and ask someone in perhaps #debian-mentors or such |
| 20:21.41 | jelly | plouj, maybe ask in #packaging over on irc.oftc.net |
| 20:22.08 | epony | jelly yes, understandable, I'm using a window manager only (no DE), so the config file changes are hand manageable for that part |
| 20:22.26 | discovered | oh now the errors disappear! tabakhase |
| 20:23.08 | jelly | Debian manages a decent percentange of changes to global configs in /etc on its own for release upgrades; the less changes you make, the better |
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| 20:24.38 | jelly | when there are incompatible changes, you usually get a warning at release upgrade time to force new defaults, or it's documented in release notes |
| 20:24.43 | un214 | yeah that's ... problematic |
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| 20:25.21 | jelly | (those warnings are dependent on apt-listchanges being installed and configured to show NEWS.Debian) |
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| 20:28.54 | discovered | as my system booted fine, there should not be any incompatible issue.... right? There is no any other issue though |
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| 20:31.18 | un214 | smb.conf was a historical victim of this |
| 20:31.43 | un214 | discovered ^^ |
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| 20:33.20 | discovered | un214, what kind of issue? |
| 20:33.46 | un214 | upgrade; reset a bunch of files in /etc; have broken stuff |
| 20:34.24 | jelly | un214, depends on upstream changes and on debian maintainers. |
| 20:34.52 | jelly | clamav has _excellent_ upgrades of global config settings |
| 20:35.10 | discovered | I don't use samba that much in my Desktop computer. I would like to test how it is doing. |
| 20:35.13 | epony | In the BSDs (OpenBSD in particular) there is a sysmerge tool that does a diff (review changes) and merge on the fly, so if you know the config files it's quite handy. |
| 20:35.31 | un214 | apt-get has one too, but it needs some work |
| 20:35.45 | epony | good |
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| 20:35.51 | jelly | that's what dpkg does by default. A simple 3-way merge is often not good enough |
| 20:36.06 | epony | yep |
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| 20:36.34 | jelly | This is one of the reasons packages tend to use /etc/foo.d/ directories with lots of snippets |
| 20:36.44 | un214 | I found the 3-way merge tool to be almost unusable. doing it the way git does would have been nice ... |
| 20:37.03 | un214 | yeah foo.d helps |
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| 20:37.42 | jelly | ... when possible. Makes local changes contained in separate files |
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| 20:48.58 | kingsley_ | waits for new and buggy code to land in unstable. |
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| 20:49.39 | jhutchins | ppc64: I don't remember if Debian repackages them or if the package is just a script that downloads them.blebee |
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| 21:01.38 | dengzel | busted |
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| 21:11.05 | Marz | does debian 10 install mate desktop by default? |
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| 21:11.34 | rant | Marz: no, if you simply choose desktop system without specifying, you get GNOME |
| 21:12.08 | Marz | i unchecked desktop and mate was checked by default |
| 21:13.34 | rant | ,recommends task-desktop |
| 21:13.35 | judd | Package task-desktop in buster/amd64 -- recommends: task-gnome-desktop | task-xfce-desktop | task-kde-desktop | task-lxde-desktop | task-cinnamon-desktop | task-mate-desktop | task-lxqt-desktop, xdg-utils, avahi-daemon, libnss-mdns, anacron, eject, iw, alsa-utils, libu2f-udev, sudo, firefox | firefox-esr. |
| 21:13.42 | jhutchins | !mate |
| 21:13.42 | dpkg | The MATE Desktop Environment is a fork of GNOME 2, available since Debian 8 "Jessie" (and also in wheezy-backports). To install, ask me about <install mate>. https://wiki.debian.org/Mate http://mate-desktop.org/ #mate on chat.freenode.net. |
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| 21:13.54 | rant | ,recommends desktop-base |
| 21:13.55 | judd | Package desktop-base in buster/amd64 -- recommends: plymouth-label. |
| 21:14.03 | rant | ,suggests desktop-base |
| 21:14.04 | judd | Package desktop-base in buster/amd64 -- suggests: gnome | kde-standard | xfce4 | wmaker. |
| 21:14.14 | rant | as you notice, gnome is listed first in these lists |
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| 21:15.23 | jose23 | Love Debian |
| 21:15.29 | Muyfret | how to make all daemons and logging utils not write to disk? |
| 21:15.31 | rant | and afaik, its by way of this first order recommendation, that any DE at all gets installed without specifically selecting one |
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| 21:16.37 | jelly | Muyfret, a) configure them not to do so or b) make /var/log a tmpfs mountpoint and recreate directories owned by packages at every boot |
| 21:16.54 | jhutchins | Muyfret: Why? What's your actual goal |
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| 21:18.25 | Muyfret | @jhutchins to prevent this flash-disk thingy from burning out so fast |
| 21:18.46 | jhutchins | jelly: I would think in the (r)syslog config you could point all levels for all programs to /dev/nul |
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| 21:19.10 | jmcnaught | or just remove the rsyslog package |
| 21:19.35 | jhutchins | jmcnaught: Or possibly just kill the daemon. |
| 21:19.38 | rant | or mount another media such as tmpfs or nfs or such on /var/log |
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| 21:22.17 | jelly | jmcnaught, that falls under solution a), but only for software that logs with syslog. |
| 21:22.33 | jelly | er, jhutchins* |
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| 21:23.56 | un214 | what's a good replacement for kolourpaint that doesn't depend on kde |
| 21:24.07 | jelly | what does it do? |
| 21:24.16 | jelly | ,i kolourpaint |
| 21:24.18 | judd | Package kolourpaint (graphics, optional) in buster/amd64: simple image editor and drawing application. Version: 4:18.04.0-1; Size: 5553.4k; Installed: 9546k; Homepage: http://www.kde.org/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/kolourpaint |
| 21:24.48 | un214 | simple line drawing and image copy/paste/clip tool that has support for tranparent and gaussian scale |
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| 21:25.12 | jelly | is https://jspaint.app/ simple enough? |
| 21:25.34 | Bitchin_Camaro | !buster sources.list |
| 21:25.34 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 21:25.42 | un214 | unable to evaluate -- runs in browser |
| 21:26.01 | rant | un214: gnome-paint gpaint junior-art kolourpaint mtpaint rgbpaint tuxpaint tuxpaint-data tuxpaint-dev tuxpaint-plugins-default tuxpaint-stamps-default xpaint xpaint-dev |
| 21:26.23 | rant | apt search simple paint | grep stable | sed -e 's/\/.*//' | tr "\n" " " |
| 21:26.41 | un214 | nice |
| 21:26.49 | un214 | ok I start testing |
| 21:27.06 | kreyren | i'm running `qemu-system-x86_64 -kernel ... -enable-kvm` and i'm getting `Could not access KVM kernel module: No such file or directory` -> How do i get kvm module on debian bullseye ? |
| 21:27.22 | jhutchins | un214: I usually use gimp. |
| 21:27.40 | jelly | !debian-next |
| 21:27.40 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 21:27.41 | jhutchins | !kvm |
| 21:27.43 | jelly | kreyren, ^ |
| 21:27.54 | un214 | I use gimp from time to time; I find it's layering too much |
| 21:28.18 | kreyren | jelly, well stable is now buster and buster is mirror of bullseye xD but whatever |
| 21:28.27 | jelly | kreyren, bullseye is going to be a rough ride for the next couple of weeks, good luck |
| 21:28.51 | jelly | kreyren, if you can reproduce the issue on actual buster, ask here. |
| 21:29.19 | kreyren | jelly, it has bullseye repositories but it didn't update anything yet (still shows buster in neofetch etc..) |
| 21:29.29 | jelly | yeah, not buying it |
| 21:29.45 | jelly | kreyren, what does "uname -a" say? |
| 21:30.23 | kreyren | jelly, https://i.imgur.com/YTkhxi8.png http://ix.io/1NY5 http://ix.io/1NY8 http://ix.io/1NYb |
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| 21:30.27 | kreyren | jelly, help now :p |
| 21:30.49 | un214 | well xpaint has everything but the transparency |
| 21:30.50 | kreyren | `aptli | grep bullseye` -> blank |
| 21:30.59 | jhutchins | !kvm |
| 21:30.59 | dpkg | Kernel-based Virtual Machine (KVM) is a full <virtualization> solution for Linux hosts on x86 hardware with x86 guests. Packaged as qemu-kvm since Debian 6.0 "Squeeze". See http://wiki.debian.org/KVM for installation instructions, also ask me about <xve>. http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/FAQ http://www.linux-kvm.org/ #kvm on irc.freenode.net. |
| 21:31.22 | kreyren | jhutchins, qemu-kvm/testing,now 1:3.1+dfsg-8~deb10u1 amd64 [installed] |
| 21:31.34 | tfgbd_ | I'll just admit it. I only used debian to compile qemu arm65 so I could VM more ARM65 Windows |
| 21:31.44 | jelly | ,v qemu-system-x86 |
| 21:31.45 | judd | Package: qemu-system-x86 on amd64 -- jessie: 1:2.1+dfsg-12+deb8u6; jessie-security: 1:2.1+dfsg-12+deb8u11; stretch: 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u5; stretch-proposed-updates: 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7; stretch-security: 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7; bullseye: 1:3.1+dfsg-8~deb10u1; buster: 1:3.1+dfsg-8~deb10u1; sid: 1:3.1+dfsg-8 |
| 21:31.52 | tfgbd_ | No KVM on Microsoft Linux, is there? |
| 21:32.02 | tfgbd_ | Do I just need the .so? |
| 21:32.05 | kreyren | > Microsoft Linux |
| 21:32.17 | kreyren | triggered |
| 21:32.22 | epony | tfgbd_ admit more |
| 21:32.32 | jelly | kreyren, keep your comments in here to tech, please |
| 21:32.39 | kreyren | jelly, yep yep |
| 21:32.52 | tfgbd_ | ARM64* |
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| 21:33.58 | kreyren | lsmod = http://ix.io/1NYd |
| 21:34.07 | tfgbd_ | kreyren, do you want a screenshot? |
| 21:34.13 | kreyren | notice: kvm 724992 0 |
| 21:34.41 | kreyren | tfgbd_, of what? Microsoft Linux? Is that how it's called on windows running as WSL or? |
| 21:34.49 | tfgbd_ | Yes. |
| 21:35.00 | kreyren | ehw |
| 21:35.06 | jelly | kreyren, wfm, do you have an intel or amd cpu? |
| 21:35.12 | kreyren | jelly, intel |
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| 21:35.28 | tfgbd_ | Linux ARM64_LAPROP 4.4.0-17134-Microsoft #706-Microsoft Mon Apr 01 18:13:00 PST 2019 aarch64 GNU/Linux |
| 21:35.31 | jelly | kreyren, make sure kvm_intel kernel module is loaded |
| 21:35.41 | kreyren | jelly, Intel i7-4700HQ (8) @ 3.400GHz |
| 21:35.48 | jelly | tfgbd_, what's a "laprop" :-) |
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| 21:35.57 | tfgbd_ | Just a fun name. |
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| 21:36.12 | kreyren | jelly, http://ix.io/1NYh |
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| 21:36.40 | qwebirc95665 | hi , how can i kill a process that doesnt get killed with sudo kill 7973? |
| 21:37.04 | epony | qwebirc95665 add -9 after kill |
| 21:37.20 | jelly | kreyren, grep -E 'model name|flags' /proc/cpuinfo|sort -u |
| 21:37.20 | kreyren | qwebirc95665, try root i guess? |
| 21:37.35 | qwebirc95665 | thx .9 did the job |
| 21:37.38 | kreyren | jelly, http://ix.io/1NYi |
| 21:37.45 | epony | qwebirc95665 any day :-) |
| 21:38.21 | jelly | kreyren, vmx is there. Pastebin your whole dmesg. |
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| 21:38.42 | kreyren | jelly, http://ix.io/1NYk |
| 21:39.19 | jelly | kreyren, can you see it? |
| 21:39.31 | jmcnaught | kreyren: [ 4.798002] kvm: disabled by bios |
| 21:39.37 | kreyren | ahh |
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| 21:39.39 | jelly | jmcnaught, shush! |
| 21:39.49 | kreyren | jelly, jmcnaught thanks! |
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| 21:42.42 | jelly | kreyren, get rid of virtualbox and its kernel drivers if you can, first. |
| 21:43.02 | jelly | they introduce instability. |
| 21:43.32 | jelly | and I do not know if they stop kvm drivers from working or not |
| 21:44.00 | tfgbd_ | Some people need all 3. |
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| 21:44.20 | jelly | tfgbd_, what are you talking about? |
| 21:44.31 | un214 | why the blank is apt-get remove propagating through recommends |
| 21:44.34 | jelly | kreyren, iirc you can't have two hypervisors running at the same time |
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| 21:45.08 | jmcnaught | un214: got a paste? |
| 21:45.17 | kreyren | jelly, i have that sandboxed in /opt/virtualbox isn't that sane? |
| 21:45.25 | kreyren | using that .run script from upstream |
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| 21:46.50 | un214 | https://pastebin.com/Kx6tMqL5 libpam-systemd-apt-holepunch is a blank package that claims to provide libpam-systemd |
| 21:47.08 | jelly | kreyren, at the very least disable its services and reboot |
| 21:47.28 | jelly | you can't "sandbox" a kernel component |
| 21:47.41 | kreyren | jelly, ah i see.. nuking it then |
| 21:47.50 | un214 | should not be removing lxsession |
| 21:48.23 | jelly | kreyren, I suspect it tells kvm VT-x is disabled to keep it from interfering |
| 21:48.52 | jelly | ,v libpam-systemd-apt-holepunch |
| 21:48.54 | judd | No package named 'libpam-systemd-apt-holepunch' was found in amd64. |
| 21:49.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1543] by debhelper |
| 21:49.04 | tfgbd_ | Are there any cool jail apps for ARM? |
| 21:49.22 | un214 | judd pay attention libpam-systemd-apt-holepunch is a dummy for libpam-systemd |
| 21:49.50 | kreyren | jelly, sanity: http://ix.io/1NYt result of systemctl list-unit-files | grep enabled |
| 21:50.02 | jelly | un214, except that package does not exist in debian |
| 21:50.14 | un214 | but libpam-systemd does |
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| 21:50.35 | areyouloco | what happened to the tray in buster? |
| 21:51.06 | jelly | kreyren, I do not know what was not enabled before, but okay |
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| 21:52.00 | epony | tfgbd_ FreeBSD terminology has jails but Deban is Linux |
| 21:52.15 | jelly | un214, what was the actual command you ran? |
| 21:52.23 | kreyren | jelly, vboxautostart-service.service enabled |
| 21:52.23 | kreyren | vboxballoonctrl-service.service enabled |
| 21:52.23 | kreyren | vboxdrv.service enabled |
| 21:52.23 | kreyren | vboxweb-service.service |
| 21:52.26 | kreyren | ah sorry |
| 21:52.26 | *** kick/#debian [kreyren!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (flood) |
| 21:52.29 | un214 | apt-get remove libpam-system-apt-holepunch |
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| 21:52.44 | kreyren | it always copy pastes the new line without me noticing it ;-; |
| 21:52.55 | jelly | un214, and what did you expect removing a dependency would do? |
| 21:52.55 | un214 | but that package is literally 2 lines: provides libpam-systemd ; conflicts libpam-systemd |
| 21:53.14 | un214 | I can't find the actual dependency |
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| 21:53.18 | jelly | un214, "aptitude why libpam-systemd" |
| 21:53.55 | un214 | *sigh* that returns a kde library I'm gonna remove anyway |
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| 21:56.57 | jelly | un214, eh, then ask it something like, aptitude search '~i ?depends(libpam-systemd)' |
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| 22:11.25 | un214 | ok the real offender is policykit-1 |
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| 22:19.16 | un214 | One of these dependencies is wrong: lxsession -> lxpolkit -> policykit-1 -> libpam-systemd |
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| 22:22.30 | [rg] | is there a grml channel? |
| 22:23.00 | rant | [rg]: /msg alis help list |
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| 22:30.27 | un214 | Ah; https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=923207 never got merged to buster |
| 22:33.20 | jhutchins | ,v lxsession |
| 22:33.21 | judd | Package: lxsession on amd64 -- jessie: 0.5.1-2; stretch: 0.5.3-2; bullseye: 0.5.4-1; buster: 0.5.4-1; sid: 0.5.4-1 |
| 22:34.24 | jhutchins | un214: AYBBBBBes it did. 0.5.4-1 |
| 22:34.47 | jhutchins | That's interesting corruption... |
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| 22:37.13 | un214 | in which case I've got a stumper for apt-get |
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| 22:45.24 | roylaprattep | syslogin_perform_logout: logout() returned an error : 2 time(s) |
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| 22:45.51 | roylaprattep | someone can explain me why i have this error? fail2ban log |
| 22:46.23 | roylaprattep | have this error since jessie to stretch dist-upgrade |
| 22:48.27 | jmcnaught | roylaprattep: when does it happen? Are there more details in /var/log/auth.log or 'journalctl -u ssh' (if it's ssh)? |
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| 22:54.59 | roylaprattep | jmcnaught: its everytime i logout putty, for example |
| 22:55.13 | roylaprattep | when ending ssh session, i have this error |
| 22:55.34 | roylaprattep | Jul 4 23:40:02 debian-prlsvr sshd[32691]: pam_unix(sshd:session): session closed for user roylaprattep |
| 22:55.37 | roylaprattep | Jul 4 23:40:02 debian-prlsvr sshd[32691]: syslogin_perform_logout: logout() returned an error |
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| 22:59.15 | jmcnaught | roylaprattep: sshd might give more information if you increase its LogLevel in /etc/ssh/sshd_config. See "man sshd_config" for details but you could start with LogLevel VERBOSE and then go to DEBUG if it still doesn't have enough information |
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| 23:00.16 | jmcnaught | roylaprattep: make sure to 'systemctl reload ssh' after editing sshd_config |
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| 23:01.45 | roylaprattep | ok thx |
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| 23:09.00 | Tom-_ | Yes, I am trying to get a DE running on Debian 10 without systemd |
| 23:10.52 | tfgbd_ | What does systemd matter? |
| 23:11.04 | tfgbd_ | JWM works. |
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| 23:20.14 | nohop | Poor systemd. So much hate. |
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| 23:21.41 | annadane | !start an init war |
| 23:22.03 | nohop | echo do all the things > /etc/rc.local |
| 23:22.12 | nohop | And THAT'S IT! |
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| 23:23.17 | agris | Hello, I saw in the new release of Debian, it switches to java 11? |
| 23:23.24 | annadane | yes |
| 23:23.35 | agris | Wasn't there some severe licensing issues with java 10/11? |
| 23:24.09 | annadane | well, i don't know about that, but it's important to understand debian uses a free implementation of java |
| 23:24.10 | nohop | Oh, about new things in deb 10. I also read that wayland is now the default. |
| 23:24.14 | nohop | ... Aren't you guys scared?! :) |
| 23:24.16 | annadane | for GNOME |
| 23:24.47 | agris | So it's completely isolated from Oracle licensing yes? |
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| 23:24.55 | annadane | i'm pretty happy with buster, it feels a bit quicker and snappier |
| 23:25.03 | nohop | I guess the export DISPLAY=otherbox:0 days are officially coming to an end huh? It makes me slightly sad... |
| 23:25.07 | annadane | yeah i mean, i'm not well versed in the intricacies of java but i imagine so |
| 23:25.17 | agris | ok |
| 23:25.28 | agris | and I saw Wayland is the new display server |
| 23:25.42 | agris | Are you sure it's "ready" yet? |
| 23:25.44 | cybercrypto | Yes, indeed |
| 23:25.56 | agris | I remember when Ubuntu did that |
| 23:26.02 | agris | way too early |
| 23:26.02 | jmcnaught | Wayland is only the default for GNOME, and GNOME on Xorg is still available. I've been using GNOME on Wayland since stretch was released with no problems. |
| 23:26.17 | annadane | nvidia still doesn't support wayland, i think? |
| 23:26.29 | annadane | may be wrong |
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| 23:26.33 | agris | How does this effect the ability to do ssh -X somebox.lan ? |
| 23:26.39 | nohop | annadane: Yeah, that's what I read as well. |
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| 23:27.03 | agris | also, how does this effect the ability to run gtk2 applications? |
| 23:27.08 | nohop | agris: That's an X11 thing. I don't think you can do that with Wayland. |
| 23:27.26 | nohop | The 'network-transparancy' thing, that is. |
| 23:27.29 | agris | nohop, is there a wayland alternative that offers similar functionality? |
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| 23:27.49 | nohop | ... not that Xorg was still really network transparant anymore... with all it's extensions... |
| 23:28.07 | kreyren | i'm getting `fatal error: curses.h: No such file or directory` what package on debian has it? libncurses-dev ? |
| 23:28.08 | nohop | agris: I don't know. I have personally never used it yet. |
| 23:28.13 | agris | It is, I use ssh -X daily |
| 23:28.14 | jmcnaught | Has anyone tried X11 forwarding with Wayland or is this all speculation? There's still XWayland running an X server |
| 23:29.02 | agris | Also, parden me for asking this may be a stupid question but I still don't know. Why are we starting from scratch instead of working on X12? |
| 23:29.35 | nohop | X12? :) It's been X11 for decades! Can't change it now! *grin* |
| 23:29.45 | annadane | i'll get a new pc relatively soon so i don't have to deal with nvidia, which also means i can run openbsd on it... /offtopic |
| 23:30.13 | agris | sure, before X11 we had X10 |
| 23:30.27 | nohop | agris: I kinda get it though. X11 is really not build for how we're using modern window managers/hardware... |
| 23:30.40 | nohop | It's kind of a double-edges sword, if you ask me. |
| 23:30.52 | agris | nohop, what do you mean by modern windows manager/hardware? |
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| 23:30.57 | nohop | It's nice to do things right... But it sucks to use the old things we're used to. |
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| 23:31.19 | epsilon | X11 is from the 80th actually |
| 23:31.32 | annadane | the last i heard of wayland redshift didn't work on it, though that was months ago, but that'd be a dealbreaker for me |
| 23:31.34 | nohop | agris: The numerous queries between client/server that X11 does... |
| 23:31.53 | nohop | Not that I really know how Wayland works, but I think that's one of the things that it addresses and makes it faster/more responsive. |
| 23:32.16 | agris | yeah, but at the cost of so much flexibility |
| 23:32.30 | epony | epsilon x86 is from the 80ies |
| 23:32.40 | bustero | i have just installed buster on my laptop which has a 256GB SSD. What steps do i have to take to keep my SSD healthy now that i am running buster? |
| 23:32.48 | annadane | let's go back to xfree86! |
| 23:33.04 | agris | don't get me wrong, I can totally see wayland as a good option for say a game console or maybe a kiosk, but for a workstation I don't see the cost/benefit ratio in favor |
| 23:33.28 | epony | X11 is from the 90ies |
| 23:33.36 | jmcnaught | kreyren: libncurses-dev has that file, did it work? |
| 23:33.40 | nohop | Ah, nice. I just installed Debian 10 (xfce) on an HP T610, with a Radeon 6320, and the X server doesn't come up at all :) |
| 23:34.10 | epony | epsilon slight correction by about 10 years both directions |
| 23:34.13 | nohop | That's Xorg though. |
| 23:34.21 | jmcnaught | bustero: you probably don't need to do anything if it's a recent SSD, but there's this wiki page you can check out: https://wiki.debian.org/SSDOptimization |
| 23:35.08 | kreyren | jmcnaught, checking |
| 23:35.11 | epony | bustero don't fill it up 101% (done) |
| 23:35.50 | kreyren | jmcnaught, yes thanks! |
| 23:37.29 | bustero | https://wiki.debian.org/SSDOptimization is not a newbie friendly guide and was written for jessie and stretch. i am running buster |
| 23:37.49 | annadane | yeah, well, welcome to the debian wiki |
| 23:39.01 | bustero | are you trying to say the debian wiki is outdated when it comes to SSD? |
| 23:39.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1528] by debhelper |
| 23:39.06 | annadane | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_state_drive is for arch but many people use the arch wiki for multiple distributions if you read in between the lines and change a few things |
| 23:39.14 | annadane | the debian wiki can be outdated in general |
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| 23:39.22 | annadane | consider also buster *just* came out |
| 23:39.47 | jmcnaught | And there is probably no difference |
| 23:40.21 | bustero | *probably* is not a very reassuring word |
| 23:40.27 | epony | it is |
| 23:40.34 | bustero | no it is not |
| 23:40.35 | epony | in your case it is the word most probably |
| 23:40.51 | epony | and about as close to absolutely no difference |
| 23:41.20 | whislock | Debian handles SSDs COMPLETELY differently than $everyOtherDistro, didn't you know. |
| 23:41.32 | epony | :-D |
| 23:42.13 | jmcnaught | If there was some new major change re: handling of SSDs it would be in the buster release notes |
| 23:42.29 | jmcnaught | (hopefully, another reassuring word ;) |
| 23:42.43 | whislock | For the record, I was being entirely sarcastic. |
| 23:43.00 | annadane | were you?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
| 23:43.12 | epony | probably |
| 23:43.13 | whislock | Was I??????????????????! |
| 23:43.18 | whislock | Hopefully. ;) |
| 23:43.29 | *** join/#debian dpelletier (~dpelletie@207.164.123.238) |
| 23:43.35 | roflbot | bustero: if there were some important issue or change, somebody would *probably* have taken the time to update the wiki page :) |
| 23:44.21 | epony | bustero so when your SSD zaps, write up on the wiki what you should not have done |
| 23:45.54 | *** join/#debian frgo (~frgo@p5B0B74F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:47.05 | nohop | Ok. Xorg Does come up after installing the firmware-linux-nonfree package, but without it, Xorg won't start at all. I assume you guys would probably want a Xorg log, so I pasted it here: |
| 23:47.09 | nohop | https://pastebin.com/kbUsb9WH |
| 23:47.15 | cthonic | bustero, were you stretcho before yesterday? |
| 23:47.24 | bustero | no |
| 23:47.52 | *** join/#debian barnaby (~barnaby@c-73-71-20-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:48.12 | *** join/#debian brianherman (45f5fe2f@c-69-245-254-47.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:48.31 | brianherman | was there release party for 10 yesterday |
| 23:48.37 | *** join/#debian shingouz (~not@80-186-3-202.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 23:48.46 | annadane | i'm already anticipating debian 12 puns... "read the documentation, be a bookworm" |
| 23:48.51 | brianherman | hahaha |
| 23:48.52 | annadane | yeah there were a few |
| 23:49.00 | *** join/#debian Nach__ (~nach0z@c-67-191-226-178.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 23:49.14 | nohop | You guys hung out on the party-line? |
| 23:50.02 | bustero | weekly trim (not needed on buster) |
| 23:50.13 | brianherman | debian 10 comes out on saturday amd releases new chips/gpus on sunday and in another week nvidia releases new gpus |
| 23:50.21 | brianherman | very exiciting july |
| 23:51.18 | epony | s/amd/and/ |
| 23:51.57 | epsilon | + learning nftables |
| 23:52.30 | brianherman | whats nftables |
| 23:52.44 | annadane | i want to get amd for my next pc, i just don't know if too new of a computer will even run buster |
| 23:52.53 | nohop | brianherman: Not iptables anymore :) |
| 23:52.56 | annadane | nftables is the successor to iptables, it's essentially a firewall |
| 23:52.57 | brianherman | oh lol |
| 23:53.01 | jmcnaught | bustero: that "not needed on buster" just means that the fstrim.timer unit is already enabled |
| 23:53.03 | brianherman | i just use ufw |
| 23:53.05 | brianherman | its so simp;le |
| 23:53.35 | brianherman | annadane: systemd doesnt like the 3000 series processors fyi |
| 23:54.00 | brianherman | https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ryzen-3700x-3900x-linux&num=1 |
| 23:54.00 | nohop | Makes me feel old that this is the third generation of packet filter subsystem :) |
| 23:54.00 | epony | annadane a packet filter rather? |
| 23:54.22 | annadane | shhh |
| 23:54.22 | nohop | ipchains, iptables, nftables, death-due-to-old-age. In that order. |
| 23:54.44 | epony | s/shhh/ssh/ |
| 23:55.05 | brianherman | whats your guys favorite filesystem on linux |
| 23:55.18 | whislock | The one that works for the task at hand. |
| 23:55.26 | epony | (or shortly modem data sounds) |
| 23:55.39 | annadane | zbtrfjext5 |
| 23:56.03 | nohop | Whichever one the installer defautls to. :) |
| 23:56.29 | bustero | i installed buster on my laptop' s 256GB SSD and did not create a swap partition. I have 8 GB RAM and do not edit video on my i5 laptop. The thing is that my laptop crawled when I was transfering 30 GB of date from my USB flash drive onto my SDD. The laptop became almost non responsive. Do i need to create a swap partition or a swap file? |
| 23:56.37 | epony | may fayvourite fail saystem is youknicks fail saystem |
| 23:57.08 | *** join/#debian inquisitiv3 (~inquisiti@localhost.olf.sgsnet.se) |
| 23:57.12 | brianherman | @bustero yeah you should create a swap |
| 23:57.13 | epsilon | bustero: what did free say? |
| 23:58.42 | Tom-_ | i actually don't really hate systemd, it's kind of just software. but yeah, if there was a #debiain-talk or -debate or so, i could talk about systemd there if you want to leave this channel for help support |
| 23:59.02 | Tom-_ | at least wmaker and xorg install w/o systemd |
| 23:59.23 | epony | tom see #devuan |
| 23:59.37 | epony | Tom-_ ^ |
| 23:59.43 | themill | /dev/null is a good place for systemd discussions |
| 23:59.57 | Tom-_ | thanks, epony. i know about devuan, but i'm still using debian |
