| 00:00.11 | disi | mutante: 3301 seems irrelevant because i am not interacting with any windows programs for this (apt is tripping up on something in /usr/lib)... still looking at the other |
| 00:00.14 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, I still get line wrapping in another terminal. |
| 00:00.14 | disi | (ty, btw) |
| 00:00.32 | disi | what should /usr/lib/apt/planners/dump point to tho? |
| 00:01.29 | Tom-_ | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 15 Jan 18 05:42 /usr/lib/apt/planners/dump -> ../solvers/dump |
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| 00:01.35 | disi | ty |
| 00:01.40 | mutante | disi: /usr/lib/apt/planners/dump: symbolic link to ../solvers/dump |
| 00:01.49 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, see http://fantasy.xecu.net/files/images/screenshot_xfce_terminal.png and the line wrapping on a few of the lines. |
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| 00:02.47 | Tom-_ | Lady_Aleena, your xfce looks pretty |
| 00:03.07 | Lady_Aleena | Tom-_, I am TRYING to tweak it. |
| 00:03.16 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: what would you like instead though? that it simply cuts off text? |
| 00:03.34 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, that I could scroll to the RIGHT to read more of the line instead of it wrapping the line. |
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| 00:09.10 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: yeah, that looks nice except i'm a sucker for a black bg |
| 00:09.32 | Lady_Aleena | LtL, I use white backgrounds almost everywhere I can set the background. |
| 00:09.41 | Lady_Aleena | But Redmond changed! |
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| 00:13.01 | disi | aaaaand I'm back from a BSOD. windoze is grayt |
| 00:13.06 | tehnull | ewlol |
| 00:13.23 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: so you are saying it worked in jessie and changed in buster? |
| 00:13.52 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, redmond changed between stretch and buster. |
| 00:13.58 | Chex | I wonder if buster supports my Ryzen 2400G CPU now |
| 00:14.11 | Chex | should try to install on a thumb-drive for s&g's |
| 00:14.12 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: i think i can confirm that.. i tried in buster and indeed no horizontal bar.. but for Jessie it is advertised as a feature |
| 00:14.27 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: eh. i use terminator all day but what's the relation to Redmond? |
| 00:14.33 | tehnull | here's pretty xfce http://i.imgur.com/Z8W5ghp.png |
| 00:15.02 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, I didn't realize you were still talking about the terminal emulator. |
| 00:15.32 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, and you probably use Gnome Terminator and not Jessie's Terminator. |
| 00:15.35 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: yes, and you are right. terminator changed in buster it seems and i want it back too |
| 00:15.54 | disi | aaaaaand now i can't even run clean or update: "E: Unable to parse package file /var/lib/apt/extended_states (1)" |
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| 00:16.39 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 00:18.28 | abrotman | ba55: wrong channel? |
| 00:18.53 | ba55 | nope |
| 00:19.07 | dvs | ??? |
| 00:19.12 | abrotman | ba55: This is #debian, Devuan has its own channel |
| 00:19.24 | ba55 | yes i know that, and im in there as well |
| 00:19.39 | abrotman | so go talk about it there, have a good day |
| 00:19.56 | ba55 | lol i'm not going to let a freenoder bother me |
| 00:20.00 | ba55 | ignored |
| 00:20.41 | ba55 | it's funny when people get triggered |
| 00:20.45 | ba55 | and you ignore them |
| 00:20.45 | *** mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ |
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| 00:20.46 | *** mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman |
| 00:20.47 | dvs | ba55, are you going to let an op bother you? |
| 00:21.09 | abrotman | ba55: This channel is for Debian support, if you want to discuss other distros, use the appropriate channel. Thanks |
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| 00:22.02 | cshzg | i'm still on stretch with no intention to migrate to buster or wayland |
| 00:22.40 | tehnull | you don't have to use wayland |
| 00:22.52 | tehnull | gnome is garbage anyways |
| 00:23.10 | cshzg | i use gnome as backend to openbox |
| 00:23.16 | Lady_Aleena | More command line programs need a human readable option. |
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| 00:23.46 | mutante | i have gnome on buster and Xorg |
| 00:23.48 | Lady_Aleena | fc-list for example made my go cross-eyed. |
| 00:23.54 | abrotman | cshzg: you can still use Xorg if you prefer .. |
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| 00:23.58 | Lady_Aleena | s/my/me/; |
| 00:24.05 | mutante | and i did not even select anything because i just picked MATE desktop |
| 00:24.17 | mutante | and i got Xorg apparently |
| 00:24.31 | disi | debian is amazing... move broken stuff out of the way and let it fix itself... upgrade seems to be going fine now. can't fix the broken, double-pain windoze tho, unfortunately XD |
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| 00:24.55 | dvs | Is wayland the reason why X fonts look different? |
| 00:25.10 | tehnull | too bad updating is still too complicated |
| 00:25.17 | abrotman | cshzg: That being said, I really haven't noticed much of a difference with Wayland (I'm on an Intel GPU if that matters) |
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| 00:25.25 | dvs | tehnull, ??? |
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| 00:25.52 | fr33n0deisg4y | ERP DERP |
| 00:25.56 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, are you interested in seeing the terminal emulator I use on your system? |
| 00:25.59 | fr33n0deisg4y | derp freenode so cool |
| 00:25.59 | tehnull | apt-get gist-upgrade |
| 00:26.00 | fr33n0deisg4y | derp |
| 00:26.04 | fr33n0deisg4y | eeeeeeppppp |
| 00:26.07 | fr33n0deisg4y | DVS |
| 00:26.09 | fr33n0deisg4y | umad? |
| 00:26.10 | *** mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ |
| 00:26.10 | tehnull | *apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 00:26.10 | *** mode/#debian [+q *!*@static.200.25.9.176.clients.your-server.de] by abrotman |
| 00:26.10 | *** mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman |
| 00:26.24 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: yes |
| 00:26.25 | tehnull | should upgrade to buster |
| 00:26.30 | abrotman | tehnull: what's hard about it? |
| 00:26.30 | tehnull | without any further intervention |
| 00:26.48 | tehnull | instead I gotta edit sources and crap |
| 00:26.51 | tehnull | just dumb |
| 00:26.54 | abrotman | oh |
| 00:26.59 | tehnull | way to welcome windows noobs |
| 00:27.13 | abrotman | so, it has nothing to do with the actual upgrade of the packages, but the management of the sources? |
| 00:27.29 | tehnull | I shouldn't have to edit anything |
| 00:27.39 | tehnull | I should be able to enter 1 command and upgrade |
| 00:27.41 | dvs | tehnull, there is a way to do that. |
| 00:27.45 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, go to https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_6aBsmCOabtka5akRjo87v2JP1ST7FIU and look for org.jessies.terminator.<architecture>.deb. |
| 00:27.46 | tehnull | hell there should be a gui to upgrade |
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| 00:27.48 | dvs | But it's not recommended |
| 00:28.11 | tehnull | of course not |
| 00:28.21 | disi | it makes sense now that i understand it, but ya, i agree: you shouldn't really _need_ to understand it |
| 00:28.22 | petn-randall | tehnull: The reason it doesn't exist is that people are even less inclined to read the release notes, and then cry when things go wrong. |
| 00:28.32 | cshzg | abrotman: i see... |
| 00:28.41 | tehnull | things shouldn't go wrong |
| 00:28.42 | Lady_Aleena | tehnull, I too wish for a gui upgrade program. My eyes are still tired of watching lines scrolling in my terminal. |
| 00:28.48 | l337f00l | can't wait for buster on devuan its gonna be soo sweet |
| 00:28.54 | *** mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ |
| 00:28.55 | *** mode/#debian [+q *!*@2601 186:202:1768:3e95:9ff:fedc:2f21] by abrotman |
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| 00:29.03 | abrotman | Didn't see that coming ... |
| 00:29.16 | Lady_Aleena | abrotman, 8) |
| 00:29.22 | mutante | so something like "sed -i stretch/buster/g /etc/apt/sources.list ; apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade" to turn it into a single command and then alias that |
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| 00:29.25 | abrotman | tehnull: there are an infinite number of package and configuration combinations .. that's a lot of testing |
| 00:29.45 | tehnull | well if it's not ready don't release it |
| 00:30.00 | abrotman | *infinite* |
| 00:30.15 | disi | tehnull: actually, tho... isn't dist-upgrade all you need if you track stable? |
| 00:30.18 | petn-randall | abrotman: Can't you test all infinite combinations, for me? |
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| 00:30.26 | tehnull | nope |
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| 00:30.29 | mutante | where does the unlimited number of testers come from? |
| 00:30.37 | abrotman | petn-randall: I sohuld, because then we could release ... |
| 00:30.42 | disi | tehnull: what else? |
| 00:30.43 | themill | tehnull: are you done yet? |
| 00:31.40 | tehnull | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/497baf64/ |
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| 00:31.59 | tehnull | no I'm not upgrading to buster |
| 00:32.20 | abrotman | Okay, thanks |
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| 00:32.33 | tehnull | I would if upgrading wasn't messed up |
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| 00:32.48 | abrotman | tehnull: We'll wait for your patches |
| 00:32.51 | tehnull | I shouldn't have to google how to upgrade after using debian well over a year |
| 00:32.59 | *** mode/#debian [+q *!*@unaffiliated/tehnull] by ChanServ |
| 00:32.59 | disi | tehnull: oh, i'm kinda confused... are you tracking stable or stretch? |
| 00:33.07 | themill | disi: just trolling |
| 00:33.19 | disi | wah wah |
| 00:33.21 | Lady_Aleena | tehnull, I upgraded from stretch to buster today. If I can upgrade with minimal problems, ANYONE can. |
| 00:34.02 | Lady_Aleena | Even nvidia played nice with me today! That is a big thing for me. |
| 00:34.25 | mutante | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_improvement |
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| 00:34.48 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, will you let me know when you download, install, and look at that program? |
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| 00:35.45 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: oh, i appreciate it but i am not comfortable installing a .deb from Google drive on this laptop |
| 00:35.54 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: sorry i missed the link at irst |
| 00:36.17 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: but the search term is still helpful! checking |
| 00:36.29 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, okay. I've used their software since I was on wheezy. |
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| 00:37.07 | *** mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman |
| 00:37.18 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: does "jessie" have any relation to Debian jessie in this context or just the name of the author? |
| 00:37.35 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, I think it was the name of the original author, nothing to do with Debian. |
| 00:38.26 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: gotcha, now it would just have to be in Debian |
| 00:39.01 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, I wouldn't even know where to go to beg the Debian gods to add it to their packages. |
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| 00:39.07 | *** mode/#debian [-q *!*@2601 186:202:1768:3e95:9ff:fedc:2f21] by abrotman |
| 00:39.07 | *** mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman |
| 00:39.19 | themill | !rfp |
| 00:39.19 | dpkg | Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp, the section on that page "Adding new entries with "reportbug"" is a good place to start. Technically, a RFP is a wishlist bug filed against "wnpp" with a title beginning "RFP: ", ask me about <wnpp>. The best way of getting software packaged is to do it yourself: ask me about <nmg>. |
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| 00:42.12 | zer0cool | Devuan is cool and Debian drools .... HACK THE PLANET!!!!! HACK THE PLANET!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO HACK THE PLANET!!!!!!! |
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| 00:43.38 | phogg | Kids still watch Hackers? |
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| 00:46.23 | Lady_Aleena | ACK! I won't add to the list of packages right now. Too many orphans that would probably use attention first. |
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| 00:46.30 | phogg | Lady_Aleena: is this the same thing? https://github.com/software-jessies-org/jessies/wiki/Terminator |
| 00:46.44 | Lady_Aleena | phogg, yes it is. |
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| 00:49.07 | l0rdN1k0n | free my nukka ba55 he didn't do nothing .... HACK THE PLANET!!!!!! HACK THE PLANET!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOO MESS WITH THE BEST DIE LIKE THE REST!!!!! |
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| 00:51.22 | Lady_Aleena | phogg, were you just asking to ask, or do you have thoughts? 8) |
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| 00:55.12 | phogg | Lady_Aleena: it's too bad it uses the name of another existing terminal emulator. Two of them, though I believe one is now dead. |
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| 00:59.18 | Lady_Aleena | phogg, I don't know which came first. |
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| 01:04.55 | mason | Pleasant movie anyway. Makes me want to watch it again. |
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| 01:16.03 | phogg | mason: It is perhaps more so-bad-its-funny than good, now. |
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| 01:23.39 | mason | phogg: It has its place. |
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| 02:06.58 | Resilience | a little bit ooftopic, and I know this is _not_ the right channel for testing, but the right channel seems to be dead or sleeping, what's going with testing version? why can't be updated && dist-upgraded? |
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| 02:07.22 | mason | Resilience: The right channel is #debian-next on OFTC, not on Freenode. |
| 02:07.48 | sleepingforest | congrats on Buster, thank u all for your work |
| 02:07.58 | Resilience | mason, I said it in the first part " I know this is _not_ the right channel for testing, but the right channel seems to be dead or sleeping," |
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| 02:09.11 | mason | Resilience: Ah, common error for people to not realize it wasn't on the same network. |
| 02:09.26 | dvs | !wwbr |
| 02:09.26 | dpkg | Debian 10 "Buster" started the <freeze> process on 2019-01-12 and should release on July 6, 2019. See https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/06/msg00003.html. |
| 02:09.35 | dvs | hmmmmm.... |
| 02:09.41 | nonicknamegivenh | Fresh install of Debian 10, after installing firewalld, I used "firewall-cmd --zone=public --add-service=http --permanent" and called --reload. Firewalld is not completely broken and spits out error regarding iptables. Any suggestions? |
| 02:09.45 | Resilience | mason, I am onth eother network, but everyone seems to be sleeping or disappeared |
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| 02:22.23 | Shmam | How can I debug my system that randomly shuts down? I checked /proc/sys/kernel/panic and it was 0 |
| 02:22.57 | Starz0r | Shmam: That sounds like a hardware issue more than a kernel issue |
| 02:23.08 | binaryhermit | I would guess that testing technically doesn't exist yet, maybe? |
| 02:23.22 | binaryhermit | that nobody's created... bullseye? yet |
| 02:23.50 | annadane | packages in testing get there after they've been in unstable for about 2-10 days so... quite possible |
| 02:23.53 | Shmam | Starz0r: any ideas on places to look to find out what could be failing? |
| 02:24.06 | Starz0r | Shmam: Could literally be anything |
| 02:24.07 | annadane | say 10 days, 2 for security things |
| 02:24.12 | Starz0r | For things that wouldn't be caught |
| 02:24.15 | binaryhermit | that'd be my guess with Resilience's problem |
| 02:24.44 | Starz0r | If I had to guess it would be something with your power supply |
| 02:25.05 | Shmam | oh yeah theres a pretty decent chance that's it |
| 02:25.07 | Shmam | its a POS lmao |
| 02:25.12 | tsujp | I added a user using Ansible and when I su - user it breaks up and down, tab completion |
| 02:25.20 | tsujp | and feels like a screen where you cannot scroll, and what not |
| 02:25.25 | tsujp | Does anyone know what is going on? |
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| 02:25.59 | Resilience | binaryhermit, don't know, it is the first time I get t this, a respository change (security) changed without being listed, a complete freeze ontesting and some extrange messages with apt_get, the craziness of modern times I am afraid |
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| 02:27.45 | laughingtiger | hi, is avahi-daemon useful in debian? I recently disabled it, but found no malfunction of the system. everything seems normal. |
| 02:28.27 | zoredache | it can be useful if your network is shared with Mac (OSX) devices and you want automagical name resolution to work |
| 02:28.40 | zoredache | for file sharing and other resources |
| 02:28.49 | zoredache | probably not as useful for a single computer |
| 02:28.55 | jmcnaught | Shmam: have you checked /var/log/syslog for errors? |
| 02:29.12 | laughingtiger | zoredache, got it, thank you. |
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| 02:33.39 | Resilience | laughingtiger, I have the same issue with you, avah is a uppn server, that allows o annoucnce every service you want by means of upnp, unless you want to do that, you don't need to and debian works the same |
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| 02:37.45 | laughingtiger | Resilience, thank you for that, I've Bing'ed and google'd a lot, but still can't have a clear conception about it, now I understand. |
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| 02:38.48 | Resilience | laughingtiger, it took me 3 years to udenrstand that, upnp announces things (like the rendezvous or wahtever is called i now MacOS service) and by configuring avahim, yo ucana nnounce EVERYTHING (which neither wise nor safe, of course) |
| 02:39.32 | laughingtiger | Resilience, lol, 3years? |
| 02:40.12 | Resilience | laughingtiger, yes, 3 years, until I found a little link that make a configutarion for a VBUS service and I have my a-ha moment |
| 02:40.21 | Resilience | VBUS*DBUS |
| 02:41.12 | laughingtiger | Resilience, I guess the total time accumulated couldn't excess 3 months, you just expanded it into 3 years, is that right? |
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| 02:41.45 | laughingtiger | Resilience, ah, right, vbus dbus, I've no idea what those is. |
| 02:41.48 | Resilience | laughingtiger, it was eally hpurs, but since I started to read since I was able to comprehend it, it passed 3 years |
| 02:42.34 | Resilience | laughingtiger, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Bus |
| 02:43.42 | laughingtiger | Resilience, I'll read it later, read it now gives me headache. |
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| 02:44.22 | awal1 | dpkg: next stable |
| 02:44.22 | dpkg | awal1: I give up, what is it? |
| 02:44.30 | awal1 | dpkg: next stable codename |
| 02:44.30 | dpkg | awal1: have you tried http://www.tldp.org/ ? |
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| 02:44.40 | jmcnaught | awal1: it's bullseye |
| 02:45.00 | awal1 | jmcnaught, ok . thanks |
| 02:45.42 | awal1 | how is Buster going? rock solid? |
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| 02:46.31 | awal1 | ,v fvwm |
| 02:46.32 | judd | Package: fvwm on amd64 -- jessie: 1:2.6.5.ds-3; stretch: 1:2.6.7-3; bullseye: 1:2.6.8-1; buster: 1:2.6.8-1; sid: 1:2.6.8-1 |
| 02:46.51 | awal1 | ,v openbox |
| 02:46.52 | judd | Package: openbox on amd64 -- jessie: 3.5.2-8+deb8u1; stretch: 3.6.1-4; bullseye: 3.6.1-8; buster: 3.6.1-8; sid: 3.6.1-8 |
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| 02:47.36 | annadane | debian 10 buster, debian 11 bullseye, debian 12 bookworm |
| 02:48.17 | awal1 | ok |
| 02:48.30 | dvs | bookworm? |
| 02:48.51 | annadane | !bookworm |
| 02:48.51 | dpkg | The release following Debian 11 "Bullseye" is codenamed "Bookworm" and will be Debian 12. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2018/04/msg00006.html Bookworm is the librarian in Toy Story 3, a big green worm with a flashlight and keeper of the instruction manuals. |
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| 02:49.44 | awal1 | Sid is the nicest codename :P |
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| 02:51.35 | Bjornn | except Sid should be a gangster, not a toy. |
| 02:51.36 | Bjornn | :) |
| 02:51.39 | Resilience | somebody is something is wrong with bullseye or if sources.list must be changed? there are no updates in testing since deb10 release (I know, offtopic, but debian-next is full of dead7selept people) |
| 02:53.50 | jmcnaught | Resilience: have you tried asking in #debian-next? Just because nobody else is talking doesn't mean nobody will see your question. |
| 02:54.35 | Resilience | jmcnaught, yes, I did, I don't meant "nobody is talking" but "nobody asnwered" (sorry for being ambigous) that's why I ask here |
| 02:54.54 | Resilience | jmcnaught, and I know is a "little" off-topic, but... |
| 02:54.58 | jml2 | Resilience, deb10 is like 2 days old.. |
| 02:55.08 | jml2 | Resilience, don't see why you would have testing in your repo settings |
| 02:55.11 | addviking | Resilience, annadane has answered you in this thread. packages have to go thru unstable first. expect 10 days before packages in testing |
| 02:56.30 | Resilience | jml2, because I've been working with testing since 15 yers ago... |
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| 02:57.04 | Resilience | addviking, ok, as I said, it tis the first time it happens to me, and it's been a non-reported change in security reports wtich rasie an error |
| 02:57.18 | Resilience | no matter, thanks to all ofo you |
| 02:59.01 | jml2 | Resilience, I can browse with my webbrowser the security repo -- https://linuxconfig.org/debian-apt-get-bullseye-sources-list |
| 03:00.20 | Resilience | jml2, https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/ca2fvn/debian_testing_fails_to_upgrade_now |
| 03:00.43 | Resilience | jml2, Starting with the next release (bullseye), the security archives were renamed from xxx/updates to xxx-security, but this doesn't seem to be documented yet. There was a short mailing list post, but I figured it out by browsing the archive |
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| 03:01.17 | Resilience | jml2, something NOT documented happened, a new errro happened, etc, that's why I am asking |
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| 03:03.31 | jml2 | Resilience, try it without "debian-security" in the path... |
| 03:04.43 | jml2 | Resilience, here I get a redirect to http://*-cdn (as im in canada) ... |
| 03:04.56 | Resilience | jml2, I configured the paths as is said in that post, and now it raises no erro rnor warn, but there are no updates, and is the first time it happnes to me, that's why I was asking too, but if you said it is normal, well, it will be the new normal, no problem |
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| 03:05.16 | jml2 | Resilience, maybe they're upgrading the way their redirects work.. |
| 03:05.57 | jml2 | Resilience, if you use your webbrowser , it probably would redirect to a closer cdn near you .. maybe the "cdn" actually means content-delivery-network .. |
| 03:06.12 | Resilience | jml2, wahtever, as I said, it just urged me alittle bit to know if there was something new, or if I was making something wriong, seems neither of them, so I can wait |
| 03:07.20 | jml2 | Resilience, where did you read about that particular way of setting the security repo to -> "debian-security" ? |
| 03:07.30 | Resilience | jml2, https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/ca2fvn/debian_testing_fails_to_upgrade_now |
| 03:07.35 | jml2 | Resilience, i'm no dev, just a user |
| 03:07.56 | Resilience | jml2, me too (and I find upsetting nthe new ways of debian, sincerely) |
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| 03:08.27 | jml2 | Resilience, um, i was expecting a mailinglist topic from a dev team.. |
| 03:08.40 | jml2 | Resilience, reddit is reddit |
| 03:08.48 | Resilience | jml2, as I said, in an answer someone says he read ti in a mailinglist |
| 03:09.10 | jml2 | oh |
| 03:09.14 | jml2 | i c |
| 03:09.33 | jml2 | Resilience, but they're using "bullseye-security", not "debian-security" .. i did not bother to look at that |
| 03:09.38 | Resilience | jml2, reddit points to the mailing list, the fact is that with the raditional path raises errors and warnings, and with the reddit path it beahves as a cahrm, so... |
| 03:09.53 | jml2 | or maybe this -> "bullseye-security instead of bullseye/updates" |
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| 03:11.06 | jml2 | Resilience, http://security-cdn.debian.org/dists/bullseye-security/ << i can access this |
| 03:11.17 | Resilience | jml2, I am using testing, not bullseye, you will say "they are the same", no they aren'tm bullseye is testing now, two days ago wasn't and some months inthe future won't be, so I _alwys_ point my repositories to testing, and someone roke that and it was not documented, you know, the "new normal" |
| 03:11.39 | Resilience | jml2, I don't care about bullseye and names, I care about stable, testing, etc |
| 03:11.51 | jml2 | Resilience, never claimed correction to that. I am just trying to access the next release security repo. |
| 03:11.54 | Resilience | someone broke that |
| 03:12.02 | themill | !bullseye-security |
| 03:12.02 | dpkg | Security updates in testing are delayed by the normal testing migration *and* may be further delayed by missing dependencies, etc. See https://www.debian.org/security/faq#testing ; «deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main» can be used (but will be empty). |
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| 03:12.36 | themill | (you can s/bullseye/testing/ on that, but you may as well delete the line) |
| 03:13.32 | Resilience | themill, I can as well delete it.. today, but a few weeks, month years down the line I wouldn't delete it :) |
| 03:13.33 | jml2 | (Resilience is the one that has the issue) |
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| 03:13.49 | themill | Resilience: testing-security is not going to be a useful thing |
| 03:14.20 | themill | that repo is only there to make it easy for people to track testing into stable |
| 03:14.36 | Resilience | themill, the old path for security does not work |
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| 03:16.36 | Resilience | themill, -> Err:3 http://security.debian.org testing/updates Release -> 404 Not Found [IP: 151.101.120.204 80] obviously something has happened, something not documented afaik |
| 03:18.13 | jml2 | Resilience, it must be a normal delay, according to the factoid bot |
| 03:18.45 | jml2 | Resilience, it is documented, dpkg told ya :) |
| 03:19.15 | Resilience | jml2, isn't since the past 15 years, this something new, not updates in 48 hours and the security repos non-existent |
| 03:19.17 | jml2 | Resilience, (https://www.debian.org/security/faq#testing) |
| 03:20.17 | Resilience | jml2, man the non-security repos they don't work too either |
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| 03:21.02 | Resilience | but pleae, jml2 stop talking about this, I don't to talk of testing here, just asnwering you about "oh, but it isnormla", no, it is nor moral and never happened |
| 03:21.26 | Resilience | but as I said, I don't want to talk of etsting hee, because peoplep will be upsetted |
| 03:21.33 | jml2 | Resilience, according to what themill who knows more than me.. it appears to be a recurring theme during migration |
| 03:21.56 | jml2 | Resilience, (according to the factoid and official debian.org site) |
| 03:22.08 | Resilience | jml2, hat si blatanly not true, in fact, a day after migration uses to be an avalanche of new updates |
| 03:22.14 | jml2 | Resilience, I don't know if its new.. |
| 03:22.23 | jml2 | Resilience, I'm not contesting anything, just stating what is out there |
| 03:22.26 | Resilience | jml2, how long are you using debian? |
| 03:22.35 | jml2 | Resilience, quite some time |
| 03:22.38 | jml2 | :) |
| 03:23.08 | Resilience | jml2, me too, and this is ithe first time this happnes, as I said, new normal, so it is totaly abonormal |
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| 03:24.17 | jml2 | I just upgraded my debian system since good ol little wheezy :) (I've used debian much earlier than this) |
| 03:24.44 | jml2 | I just upgraded 2 days ago, and the upgrade went pretty well. I was previously on and off with testing as well, but lingered off testing some time ago.. |
| 03:25.12 | jml2 | I keep testing in other places, not this workstation atm |
| 03:27.26 | jml2 | Resilience, its funny, if you've been on linux for that long, I wouldn't consider reddit a valuable resource to look up issues |
| 03:28.02 | Resilience | jml2, but I am NOT upgrading, I am KEEPING ON running testing, do you understand now the difference? I am NOT asking anything about updatign to the new version, I am asking about something BROKEN in te repos for testing SINCE the new version, and as I said, it is a esting question, that I asked here as a last resort try, I don0t really want to talk about this, but you keep on talking and talking and talking wantig to have a reason that you don't have |
| 03:28.02 | Resilience | man |
| 03:28.41 | jml2 | Resilience, I never claimed. You seem to put a lot of goofy words in my mouth. |
| 03:28.47 | jml2 | woman! :) |
| 03:29.15 | Resilience | jml2, are you a woman? |
| 03:29.55 | jml2 | don't give me a "reddit" post on me. that's for children. |
| 03:30.00 | Resilience | jml2, are you a woman? |
| 03:30.08 | mason | Isn't sexism generally in violation of whatever Code of Conduct you'd care to select? |
| 03:30.10 | Kon- | Could any KDE Plasma users on Buster please check to see if Keyboard Navigation options are accessible from System Settings? I've got a report that they're not, but I'm on a newer version of Plasma. |
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| 03:30.46 | Kon- | They should be under the Mouse settings |
| 03:30.51 | jml2 | Resilience, defininitely not. Are you a child? |
| 03:31.04 | jmcnaught | jml2: Resilience: both of you please stop. |
| 03:31.07 | Resilience | jml2, you're an asshole, goodbye |
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| 03:31.18 | jml2 | wow |
| 03:32.37 | jmcnaught | jml2: if you just called that person a woman because they were being annoying then that is pretty misogynist which has no place in this channel. |
| 03:32.40 | mason | Let's see... |
| 03:33.04 | mason | !next |
| 03:33.05 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 03:34.37 | jml2 | jmcnaught, sorry woman. |
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| 03:36.16 | jml2 | jmcnaught, oh yeah, that's true. I should have never said the one word that is ultimately mysogynistic. You are 100% correct... "politically" speaking. You must be a really really wise man and you should be proud of yourself. |
| 03:37.11 | mason | jml2: Stop while you're only a little behind, mmkay? Not acceptable. |
| 03:38.17 | jml2 | mason, that guy Resilience was already having been triggered before I showed up here. He was crying before I can place out the bucket for him... probably has been doing this on other channels as well. Can't help you there buddy mmkay? |
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| 03:48.18 | finn0 | Still, facing same problem despite of many no. of reboots. Couldn't open Chromium in "workspace-1". I'm using GNOME desktop evironment. Here problem description: |
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| 03:50.46 | finn0 | When I'm trying to open Chromium browser from workspace-1 workspace automatically switched to 2 and then Chromium opens (i.e. chromuim opens in workspace-2). |
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| 03:51.58 | dgriffi | does anyone here have a working example of how to get debian up and running in a qemu sparc64 VM? |
| 03:52.04 | dgriffi | WITH networking. |
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| 03:52.12 | dgriffi | nothing I've found is either current or works |
| 03:54.09 | finn0 | Same happens when tried to open any other workspace (3,4...). Chromium always opens in worksapce-2. Is it some kind of bug? |
| 03:54.47 | jmcnaught | finn0: are you using an extension like 'Auto move windows' or something similar? |
| 03:56.33 | jmcnaught | finn0: does Chromium start on the current workspace if you start it from a terminal? |
| 03:59.59 | finn0 | jmcnaught: Yep, I'm using "auto move windows". But, getting same result after disabling this extension. Do I need to restart system/logout after disable the extension to affect the results? |
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| 04:00.58 | finn0 | jmcnaught: And also same results for opening chromium from terminal in current workspace. |
| 04:01.41 | jmcnaught | finn0: disabling the extension should be enough, or deleting its rule for Chromium. Do you have anything else that might be moving windows around? |
| 04:03.32 | finn0 | Let me inspect. |
| 04:06.10 | awal1 | I have made a few changes in / and home config files but i don't remember which ones; nothing complicated, almost config files regarding theming, energy and some kernel, systemd and X login boot stuff. How can i find which files have been modified manually by my single user? |
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| 04:07.59 | awal1 | it is bcoz I want switch to stable, bcoz i have no really time to maintain Sid, and I want a really frech install than modify stuff manually, no a reinstall from a backup |
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| 04:08.27 | awal1 | ...fresh install then... |
| 04:09.17 | finn0 | jmcnaught: no. Getting same result after disabling all of gnome-extension using tweak-tools. |
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| 04:25.51 | dstaring | Debian supports "FreeBSD kernel"? Huh? |
| 04:26.01 | dstaring | I thought it was a Linux distro. |
| 04:26.16 | dstaring | Sounds like a right nightmare to try to get all that crap working on FreeBSD as well. |
| 04:27.16 | awal1 | finn0, I haven't used gnome since a few years, but a few yeas ago, after disabling x extension gnome-shell restart is needed (ctrl-r-restart/r) |
| 04:27.54 | finn0 | One more thing don't understand why I'm facing this issue only with Chromium? not with any other application. |
| 04:28.56 | finn0 | awal1: Okay, I'm going to restart system. |
| 04:29.09 | *** part/#debian finn0 (~finn0@unaffiliated/finn0) |
| 04:30.34 | jml2 | dstaring, yeah the kfreebsd kernel.. i tried it like 2 years ago.. they suspended the project for some time... |
| 04:30.56 | jml2 | dstaring, couple days ago debian released (unofficial) gnu/hurd.. |
| 04:31.03 | dstaring | kfreebsd? Is that a typo or a special version of FreeBSD's kernel? |
| 04:31.07 | jml2 | dstaring, i tried that as well recently in a virtualbox.. |
| 04:31.25 | jml2 | dstaring, yeah a freebsd kernel that's suited to work for debian.. |
| 04:32.31 | jml2 | dstaring, i haven't tried it since that 2 year ago mark |
| 04:32.43 | jml2 | dstaring, after they announce suspending supporting it.. it may be back on track dunno |
| 04:32.59 | dstaring | I'm purely interested because it surprised me. I wouldn't ever want to use it, because I wasted 17 years of my life wrestling with that garbage OS FreeBSD. |
| 04:33.32 | dstaring | Interesting that Hurd apparently is finally "ready for action" in some sense. |
| 04:33.50 | zoredache | I think some people wanted it for ZFS or something |
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| 04:44.06 | finn0 | awal1: Still, getting same result after couple reboots. |
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| 04:45.06 | awal1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:45.07 | finn0 | Is anyone using chromium browser? |
| 04:45.33 | awal1 | i use chromium yes, i haven't that problem |
| 04:45.46 | finn0 | awal1: Thanks for suggest. |
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| 04:46.45 | jim | is debian's policy on any configuration changes made by the person who installs debian or otherwise has admin rights, that the installation would keep that change? |
| 04:46.48 | finn0 | awal1: which version do u use? Mine is "Chromium 73.0.3683.75 built on Debian 9.8, running on Debian 9.9" |
| 04:47.17 | awal1 | Sid version |
| 04:47.22 | awal1 | ,v chromium |
| 04:47.24 | judd | Package: chromium on amd64 -- jessie: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; stretch: 70.0.3538.110-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1; bullseye: 73.0.3683.75-1; buster: 73.0.3683.75-1; sid: 74.0.3729.108-1 |
| 04:47.32 | awal1 | i am not on stable |
| 04:48.17 | finn0 | May be I switched to Buster. |
| 04:49.01 | finn0 | *should |
| 04:49.26 | finn0 | Is upgrading from stretch to Buster work fine? |
| 04:49.50 | jim | yep, it's fine |
| 04:50.24 | jim | I upgraded on the 3rd, then rebooted |
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| 04:50.57 | jml2 | finn0, worked fine for me and I have over 20 gigs of app data intalled |
| 04:51.44 | finn0 | I'm using some third party application and added some third party repos in my source list. Shoud I remove those before upgrading? |
| 04:51.46 | awal1 | finn0, before migration read https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ |
| 04:52.23 | jim | finn0, upgrading to the new dist from the previous stable, is one of the things that would stop a release if there were any problems |
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| 04:53.44 | awal1 | migration from current stable to new stable is only guaranteed almost without breakage for a pure debian system |
| 04:53.46 | jml2 | finn0, should disable imho all non-debian non-official repos and place them in a subdirectory , eg, /etc/apt/sources.list.d/_dis , then do apt-get update -- also be sure to remove anything backports and "stretch" |
| 04:54.01 | jim | finn0, turn those 3rd party repos off during the upgrade |
| 04:54.12 | jml2 | finn0, so don't keep stretch-backports or stretch, disable/comment those lines out.. |
| 04:54.20 | jml2 | finn0, and just buster |
| 04:55.41 | awal1 | https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#unofficial-sources |
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| 05:09.18 | mataniko | I think https://packages.debian.org/buster/python-mysqldb was built without threadsafety, is there a version with it? |
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| 05:22.56 | Lady_Aleena | Okay apt! Not everyone uses a black or dark background, so bright yellow may not be the best choice for messages. |
| 05:23.40 | dgriffi | are there any qemu users in here? |
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| 05:24.49 | kopper | dgriffi: Just ask if you have questions |
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| 05:27.42 | jim | dgriffi, and add lots of informative details |
| 05:28.03 | mataniko | So any python code that calls MySQLdb.thread_safe() is now broken in Buster, should return something but the method doesn't exist. Worked just fine in stretch |
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| 05:28.11 | dead_ | is anybody out there? |
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| 05:29.27 | dead_ | gparted taking for days then freezes.. trying to recover or format a ps3 hardrive thats corrupt.. |
| 05:29.29 | awal1 | Lady_Aleena, start reading https://askubuntu.com/questions/445245/how-do-i-enable-fancy-apt-colours-and-progress-bars |
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| 05:30.03 | jim | mataniko, try making a virtual env, and pip install the mysql stuff into it, then test |
| 05:30.21 | mataniko | I am in a virtualenv |
| 05:30.27 | mataniko | the mysql connector is an apt package tho |
| 05:30.52 | jim | so that's not in the virtual env... what is? |
| 05:31.09 | jpw | virtualenv is disconnected from the OS completely |
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| 05:32.07 | jim | jpw, the software in his venv may be older, and possibly for that reason, is failing to work |
| 05:32.11 | mataniko | in the virtualenv you have mysql-python, which is a wrapper around the python-mysqldb lib |
| 05:32.27 | Lady_Aleena | To use reportbug, they require my real name? |
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| 05:32.45 | mataniko | I've rebuilt my virtualenv (they were all broken after the update) |
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| 05:33.48 | jim | Lady_Aleena, they probably want to know who reported the bug... but, I want a pony too |
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| 05:33.54 | mataniko | calling MySQLdb.thread_safe() in python calls out to whatever lib python-mysqldb installs |
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| 05:34.37 | Nz17 | Hello. Unhappily upgraded to Debian 10. Now sound playback won't work right. Sound plays via USB but not PCI. Tried purging ALSA and PulseAudio packages and messing with configs for the last several hours. alsa-info.txt has been uploaded to https://paste.debian.net/1090872/ |
| 05:34.38 | Lady_Aleena | Damn it! I can't use reportbug. |
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| 05:35.00 | jim | Lady_Aleena, maybe you can make direct contact with the debian maint of the package you're reporting against? |
| 05:36.23 | rwp | Lady_Aleena, Bugs submitted to Debian are simply email. If you can send an email by any method then a bug may be submitted by email. |
| 05:37.03 | dead_ | im probably in the wrong chatroom? |
| 05:37.16 | Lady_Aleena | jim, my minor issue is with apt. |
| 05:37.18 | rwp | Lady_Aleena, For help https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting |
| 05:37.31 | Lady_Aleena | rwp, I'm there now. 8) |
| 05:37.37 | jim | Lady_Aleena, -or-, you could download the software involved from upstream, test to see if the bug exists there, and if so, report the bug upstream... if not, you know the bug is with the debian package |
| 05:38.34 | jim | Lady_Aleena, reportbug sends an email, so they'll get whatever email address it sends in that mail as the sender |
| 05:38.39 | rwp | dead_, You are probably in a reasonable place but your statement about gparted didn't seem to be a question. |
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| 05:44.35 | Lady_Aleena | How do I get my kernel version? |
| 05:45.33 | jim | I have a situation... I'm using okular to print a pdf, and I select the lp printer... then okular says file /usr/bin/lpr not found, but when I ls it, it's there |
| 05:45.33 | Nz17 | LA: uname -a |
| 05:45.50 | jim | Lady_Aleena, or uname -r |
| 05:45.59 | rwp | Lady_Aleena, Traditionally: uname -r |
| 05:46.26 | rwp | Also: cat /proc/version |
| 05:46.54 | rwp | Also: dpkg -l 'linux-image-*' |
| 05:47.12 | Nz17 | jim: What permissions does ls -l show for /usr/bin/lpr ? |
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| 05:47.43 | jim | Nz17, -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 14328 Apr 22 23:33 /usr/bin/lpr |
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| 05:48.36 | laughingtiger | finn0, have you tried move your mouse to the top of the screen and right click it on the chromium browser or whatever the name it is, and choose "move to desktop" option? |
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| 05:48.51 | jim | Nz17, it's from the package cups-bsd |
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| 05:49.43 | Lady_Aleena | Wait, isn't Buster also known as Debian 10? Why am I getting 4.19.0-5-amd64? |
| 05:49.53 | Lady_Aleena | Maybe 11 now. |
| 05:50.28 | jim | Lady_Aleena, yes, buster is debian 10, and that's your running kernel |
| 05:50.49 | dead_ | please forgive me. i have a disk drive from a playstation 3 i corrupted by plugging it into a windows pc. what other format tool other than g-parted is new user friendly |
| 05:51.26 | jim | dead_, what do you want to do with the drive? |
| 05:52.09 | rwp | Plugging a playstation disk into ms-windows system should not be enough to corrupt it. |
| 05:52.18 | jim | dead_, (notice... someone is responding to your question) |
| 05:52.34 | dead_ | format. and update |
| 05:52.51 | eb0t | stretch is debian 4.9.0-9-amd64 |
| 05:53.04 | jim | you want to format the whole drive? |
| 05:53.15 | jim | how large is it? |
| 05:53.16 | dead_ | its corrupt as far as the ps3 says.. |
| 05:53.33 | dead_ | 120 gb |
| 05:53.41 | jim | what do you want to do with it after you format and update it? |
| 05:53.48 | jim | ok |
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| 05:53.50 | dead_ | plug it into ps3 |
| 05:54.04 | jim | ok |
| 05:54.09 | dead_ | format then plug into ps3 then update |
| 05:54.42 | jim | do you care what's already on the drive? or is wiping it clean OK? |
| 05:54.44 | dead_ | it also has a bios password or somthing at startup |
| 05:54.51 | Lady_Aleena | Now, if only Debian had a web based bug reporting system with nice drop down menus and such. |
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| 05:55.30 | dead_ | im not sure ... i dont ps3 runs anything important from the hardrive |
| 05:55.33 | jim | Lady_Aleena, there is the bug tracking system, at bugs.debian.org |
| 05:55.50 | dead_ | know* |
| 05:55.55 | finn0 | laughingtiger: I didn't find any "move to desktop" option. I moved cursor to top bar of chromium browser and right click on it getting these options "Minimize/Restore/New tab/Reopen closed tabs" etc. but not "move to desktop". |
| 05:56.29 | dead_ | lets just say no... nothing important.. |
| 05:56.37 | jim | dead_, ok. you need to make that decision first before you do anything to the drive |
| 05:56.58 | dead_ | ok. just a sec.. |
| 05:57.06 | laughingtiger | finn0, looks like your system is indeed broken. |
| 05:57.35 | laughingtiger | finn0, or you're not using kde? in that case I'm useless to you now. |
| 05:58.00 | finn0 | jim: as you suggest comment out 3rd party repo. Shouldn't I first uninstall those apps? |
| 05:58.21 | jim | dead_, the decision is: do you care what's on the hard drive (could be your saved games), or do you want to blow all of that away, and format the drive new? |
| 05:58.34 | Lady_Aleena | jim, the problem is that bugs filed by email may take days to get filed and show up on the appropriate page. |
| 05:59.14 | jim | finn0, you can take care of that after the upgrade. and, it's possible if the 3rd party packages depend on packages in stretch, it will remove them for you |
| 05:59.14 | dgriffi | I'm trying to get QEMU to emulate a sparc or sparc64 such that networking works. All the guides I find on doing this are either dreadfully out of date or just plain don't work. |
| 05:59.30 | Nz17 | Upgraded to Debian 10 from 9. Now sound playback won't work properly. Sound plays back via USB but not PCI. Tried purging ALSA and PulseAudio packages and messing with configs for the last several hours. alsa-info.txt has been uploaded to https://paste.debian.net/1090872/ How can I get PCI audio playback working again? |
| 05:59.55 | dead_ | format the hardrive! |
| 05:59.55 | finn0 | laughingtiger: I'm using GNOME. |
| 06:00.26 | jim | Lady_Aleena, ok, check the bug tracking system. by the way, when you file a bug that way, the system will send an email to the maintainer |
| 06:00.45 | Lady_Aleena | Well, I hope I formatted it correctly. |
| 06:00.45 | laughingtiger | finn0, I see, I've only used gnome once or twice. you should try to take the upgrade. good luck. |
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| 06:00.48 | jim | it will also do that with reportbug |
| 06:01.33 | jim | it should also send you emails |
| 06:01.40 | finn0 | laughingtiger: Thank you. |
| 06:01.46 | sleepingforest | whats a good firewall solution for a desktop? I know firewalld and the firewall-config exist but im curious about alternatives and what other people use |
| 06:01.57 | dead_ | nothing important on the drive.. i just need to format the whole thing no space fat32 |
| 06:01.58 | sleepingforest | I know on mac os alot of people use LittleSnitch |
| 06:02.07 | Lady_Aleena | And sent it to the correct email address. The only one I could find was submit@bugs.debian.org |
| 06:02.48 | jim | Lady_Aleena, yeah, that's the right address |
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| 06:03.00 | Lady_Aleena | Okay. |
| 06:03.05 | dgriffi | so... no sparc users? |
| 06:03.07 | jim | or you can send it to packagename@bugs.debian.org |
| 06:03.25 | laughingtiger | finn0, no problemo at all. |
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| 06:03.40 | Lady_Aleena | jim, I already sent it to the first address, I don't want to confuse the system. |
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| 06:06.22 | dead_ | jim greatful for info, on program etc.. for fromatting hardrive under linux |
| 06:06.57 | dead_ | that was a question of sorts if not busy |
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| 06:08.11 | finn0 | jim: Isn't it bad idea to mix Buster and Stretch libs and apps? |
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| 06:10.20 | blackflow | finn0: it totally is. |
| 06:10.53 | finn0 | I think, upgradation will probably broke 3rd party app because their dependency (library/package) will be replaced by newer one and may be that app is not compatiable with those libs/packages. |
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| 06:12.10 | Lady_Aleena | Well, it looks like #qt and #xfce are both very very very quiet right now, so I am not going to get much further tonight setting up my de. |
| 06:12.12 | dead_ | i smell sarcasm? |
| 06:12.46 | finn0 | blackflow: Then, what would you suggest? First should I uninstall 3rd party app then upgrade to Buster or reverse (i.e. upgrade to buster then uninstall)? |
| 06:13.51 | finn0 | I think first one is better and safe. |
| 06:13.58 | blackflow | finn0: probably the best thing is to uninstall, upgrade, then reinstall with proper support for bustre (eg. from a repo that's for buster) |
| 06:14.39 | jim | dead_ sec |
| 06:14.43 | blackflow | mixing and matching repos and packages is a yak-shaving infinite rabbit hole even most advanced users can get caught into... |
| 06:14.51 | dead_ | ty |
| 06:15.13 | jim | finn0, yep, that's a bad idea because you could import an incompatible dependency tree |
| 06:15.27 | jim | and that can lead to dependency hell |
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| 06:16.18 | jim | plus, the software you install that way probably won't work |
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| 06:16.38 | finn0 | blackflow: Should I also take proper backup of system first? (means Is there any chance that after upgradation system will not boot?) |
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| 06:16.58 | jim | Lady_Aleena, that should be fine |
| 06:17.23 | blackflow | finn0: you should always keep proper backups of your data and config, yes, not just for upgrades. and if things go wrong for some reason you can always reinstall. |
| 06:17.38 | jim | dead_, you might want to check the drive for bad blocks |
| 06:18.01 | finn0 | blackflow, jim: thanks. |
| 06:18.18 | deego | Lady_Aleena: did you say xfce? I used xfce, and haven't upgraded to buster yet. Is it broken or something in buster? |
| 06:18.21 | dead_ | ok! |
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| 06:18.25 | jim | Lady_Aleena, and, you should be able to check bugs.debian.org to see if your bug report made it there |
| 06:20.34 | jim | finn0, so dependency hell and plain not working could be the result of installing a BINARY package that comes from a dist or branch you don't run... HOWEVER, you could build the package from -source- from the same place, and it usually works fine |
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| 06:21.03 | jim | binary package files end in .deb |
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| 06:21.38 | Lady_Aleena | deego, one of the themes in appearance appears broken, but other than that, everything seems okay. My problem is setting up the Applications Menu to have many levels of sub-menus. |
| 06:21.55 | deego | ic |
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| 06:22.33 | Lady_Aleena | So my issues with XFCE are cosmetic. |
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| 06:23.53 | jim | Lady_Aleena, wait, did you file the bug against apt? or against xfce or a package within that? |
| 06:24.11 | Jck_true | During the Debian Buster upgrade yesterday I must have clicked the wrong option during the GRUB update dialog....My server now refuses to boot from my SSD. I swapped in a drive with Debian 9 on it and ran grub-install and gave it the path to the drive with Debian 10 |
| 06:24.16 | Haohmaru | i like the lxpanel menu |
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| 06:24.21 | Lady_Aleena | jim, with apt about APT. |
| 06:24.43 | Lady_Aleena | jim, I have more than one "ball in the air" right now. |
| 06:25.00 | jim | Lady_Aleena, ok, what was the issue about apt? |
| 06:25.16 | deego | Jck_true: did it work? |
| 06:25.22 | jim | you -juggle- too?! |
| 06:25.25 | Jck_true | Any advice on how to make the drive bootable again? Need the buster installation medium or? |
| 06:25.41 | dead_ | ty |
| 06:25.58 | Lady_Aleena | jim, they use bright yellow for warnings. http://fantasy.xecu.net/files/images/screenshot_apt_yellow.png |
| 06:26.18 | Jck_true | deego: No my bios simply report it as a non bootable drive... (Sadly it's an HP microserver and the BIOS is not very user friendly) |
| 06:26.20 | Lady_Aleena | jim, bright yellow on a white background doesn't work well. |
| 06:26.33 | jim | yeah you can't see those |
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| 06:26.52 | Jck_true | deego: So it's hard for me to know if the BIOS did some sort of fallback.... |
| 06:27.27 | deego | Jck_true: i see. might want to try your luck in #grub |
| 06:27.41 | jim | Lady_Aleena, I wonder if there's a way to adjust that |
| 06:28.03 | jim | Lady_Aleena, what title did you give to the apt bug? |
| 06:28.17 | Lady_Aleena | jim, the apt issue is something that can only be fixed by the maintainers, so I filed a bug. I have questions pending in #xfce and another in #qt for my other two issues. |
| 06:28.42 | Jck_true | deego; Thanks :) |
| 06:28.49 | Lady_Aleena | jim, "apt uses yellow for warnings" |
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| 06:29.19 | Lady_Aleena | jim, it's up at https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=931670 |
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| 06:35.54 | Lady_Aleena | jim, it might take a major overhaul of apt to allow user set their own colors, though it would be a nice feature. However, how many people would really set up a config for say apt-colors? |
| 06:37.53 | Lady_Aleena | I am in a very small minority (though sometimes I feel so alone) that use a white background in terminal emulators and elsewhere. Dark backgrounds with bright text seems to be more prevalent. |
| 06:39.09 | Haohmaru | it's gotta look like teh matrix |
| 06:39.10 | deego | dark bg is better on my eyes, but whenever I switch to dark bg, I always have to increase the font size, and make most fonts bold |
| 06:40.15 | Lady_Aleena | I have a white background in my text editor, IRC client, and terminal emulator. Some might go blind if they looked at my monitor. 8) |
| 06:40.22 | deego | I end up giving every app a fullscreen window, and instead of alt-tabbing, i use 70 workspaces |
| 06:41.23 | deego | heh, yes. white bg seems blinding once you get used to dark |
| 06:41.36 | Lady_Aleena | I haven't gotten into using workspaces. |
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| 06:42.18 | jim | so I couldn't find -anything- on color output from apt |
| 06:43.00 | Lady_Aleena | jim, it is probably in a deep dark place only the apt-sorcerers dare to look. 8) |
| 06:43.04 | jim | not setting the colors, not storing the settings |
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| 06:43.36 | jim | Lady_Aleena, pretty much, I watched those sorcerers make apt |
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| 06:44.09 | Lady_Aleena | That is another switch I am going to have to make soon, migrating from apt-get to apt. |
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| 06:44.30 | jim | took a fairly long time... and they -did- work on configurable user interface |
| 06:44.54 | jim | but I don't see any evidence of that now |
| 06:45.15 | Lady_Aleena | Well, they may have dropped it for something a little more important. |
| 06:45.28 | jim | possible |
| 06:45.45 | Lady_Aleena | Get it working, THEN make it pretty. |
| 06:46.33 | jim | they did the opposite |
| 06:46.44 | Lady_Aleena | I don't care how pretty something is; if it doesn't work, it is worthless. |
| 06:46.45 | jim | they started on user interface |
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| 06:47.46 | Lady_Aleena | So, my computer works, so now I can try to make it pretty (to me anyway). |
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| 06:52.22 | jim | Lady_Aleena, I find myself constantly changing the terminal display from black-on-white to white-on-black, and back |
| 06:52.41 | jim | for various different reasons |
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| 06:53.41 | Lady_Aleena | jim, I wonder if one could make that a cron job to make it time sensitive? |
| 06:53.52 | srged | there's like a border on the left of my screen i don't know how it appeared. how to remove it ? |
| 06:54.09 | kts | Buster Chromium don't let me log in. |
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| 06:54.20 | jim | a cron job? you mean to adjust the terminal's appearance? |
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| 06:54.48 | Lady_Aleena | jim, yeah, adjust the color of a terminal (and maybe several other programs) by the time of day. |
| 06:55.33 | jim | interesting concept, me, I have to have plenty of backlight, or my eyes strain to see stuff |
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| 06:56.09 | Lady_Aleena | jim, my phone adjusts the display by the time of day, why can't desktop environments? |
| 06:56.23 | jim | as long as I have that backlight, I don't have to change much about appearance |
| 06:57.18 | Jck_true | Most monitors have a light sensor? |
| 06:57.30 | Lady_Aleena | And I am now going down a rabbit hole in my head. |
| 06:57.41 | Lady_Aleena | Jck_true, not my ancient one. |
| 06:58.13 | Jck_true | It's actually a little annoying in my case. Since it only measures in one spot, if there's a shadow right on the sensor the whole display dims dramatically |
| 06:58.21 | jim | Lady_Aleena, many desktop environments are themable, maybe you could design themes for different times of the day, and work out how to change the theme in a cron job |
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| 06:59.31 | Lady_Aleena | I would have to set up GTK2, GTK3, QT4, and QT5. That would be a pain, plus my terminal emulator has its own themes. |
| 06:59.53 | zoredache | maybe you are looking for Redshift? https://wiki.debian.org/Redshift |
| 06:59.54 | Lady_Aleena | I can't get qt5 set up right now. |
| 07:00.19 | jim | doesn't buster use qt5? |
| 07:00.21 | Lady_Aleena | zoredache, I am just playing right now. |
| 07:00.34 | jim | I guess that's kde, right? |
| 07:01.07 | Lady_Aleena | jim, my qt5 is broken, I think, hence my currently unanswered question in #qt. |
| 07:01.19 | Lady_Aleena | jim, nope, XFCE. |
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| 07:01.43 | jim | hmm... anyway, back in a bit |
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| 07:02.02 | Lady_Aleena | See you later jim, nice chatting with you! |
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| 07:06.33 | srged | there is a thick margin on the left of my screen. now do i get rid of it ? |
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| 07:06.52 | Lady_Aleena | srged, do you have a screenshot? |
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| 07:07.59 | jim | Lady_Aleena, same here :) and I'm back for a minute :) |
| 07:08.15 | Lady_Aleena | srged, people in here need a lot more information to be able to help you effectively. |
| 07:08.21 | srged | Lady_Aleena: https://i.paste.pics/43f624cefb9ce9105c11cb067ac8bb19.png |
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| 07:09.28 | Lady_Aleena | jim, I may go take a shower in a few minutes. |
| 07:10.11 | jim | ok, enjoy |
| 07:10.12 | Lady_Aleena | srged, now include that link in a general message with things like which version of Debian and what desktop environment you are using. |
| 07:10.31 | Lady_Aleena | jim, not yet, but soonish. |
| 07:10.54 | srged | Lady_Aleena: debian 9 lxde |
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| 07:12.03 | Lady_Aleena | srged, I hope you get help. I don't have a clue about what could be causing that. |
| 07:12.50 | srged | ok |
| 07:13.41 | Lady_Aleena | srged, just remember, the more you include in your messages about the problem, the more helpful those who are very knowledgeable about Debian can be. |
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| 07:17.20 | elwisp | i get super heavy lag after the buster update when applications are sending notifications: org.kde.knotifications: WaitForName: Service was not registered within timeout |
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| 07:25.32 | factor | elwisp, What kernel do you have? |
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| 07:25.51 | Haohmaru | okay, so i have a few packages in my debian stretch that come from backports.. i *will* have issues with those when upgrading to debian10? |
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| 07:27.42 | elwisp | factor: 4.19.0-5-amd64 |
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| 07:28.13 | elwisp | i do have KDE installed but i mainly use i3wm |
| 07:28.28 | factor | elwisp, ok , just checking, I had some lag issues due to still using my 4.18 kernel. 4.19 enabled the fix. |
| 07:28.55 | elwisp | factor: aah |
| 07:29.02 | factor | Whiule I upgraded I had kept my old kernel. |
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| 07:43.00 | pragomer | hi, I am actually creating a script that does all of my linux setup for me - everything. part of it is creating my fstab and there are username and password for cifs mounts. Is there a way to kind of "hash" these passwords, so that they work, but are not "visible" ? |
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| 07:45.19 | jml2 | pragomer, like a realm/domain? |
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| 07:46.07 | BCMM | pragomer: not really. and if there was, it wouldn't be useful, since it would be a "password equivalent". i.e., mount.cifs has to use *something* which is adequate to allow authentication with the server, which is just as bad as a password, if stolen |
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| 07:46.28 | BCMM | pragomer: however, you can put the credentials in a separate file, and give it stronger permissions than fstab |
| 07:46.33 | pragomer | all solutions I read are about creating a credentials file with strict permissions |
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| 07:47.31 | pragomer | thought it would be cool if this would be possible the other way. its because I am creating a setup-script for my linux-setup. I WOULD be ok if the passphrase stands in the fstab later, as my systems always |
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| 07:47.48 | grady | pretty funny, i trying figuring out why my 9.5 dosnt upgraded to latest stable.. until i remember to really look the sources list. and yes, it uses codename by default, not "stable" |
| 07:47.51 | grady | why is that :/ |
| 07:48.10 | pragomer | are encrypted.. but I was looking for a solution that lets me "hash" the value in my setupscript (that echoes fstab's content to fstab) |
| 07:48.15 | jml2 | grady, cuz names are cool |
| 07:48.45 | BCMM | grady: basically, the idea with debian stable is that breaking changes happen once every two years (whereas in a rolling-release distro, they could happen at any time) |
| 07:48.56 | jml2 | pragomer, dunno why you're trying to reinvent the wheel -- there's defnitely unattended-tools for debian/distro setups |
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| 07:49.28 | Eryn_1983_FL | so my new buster version of mpd is not liking my extended m3u playlists.. |
| 07:49.29 | BCMM | grady: oldstable->stable is a major upgrade, there are often questions to be answered, and things might break. most people want to trigger that manually |
| 07:49.34 | Eryn_1983_FL | and #mpd is a ghost town. |
| 07:49.47 | jml2 | Eryn_1983_FL, boo |
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| 07:50.23 | Eryn_1983_FL | lol |
| 07:50.45 | grady | sure |
| 07:51.08 | grady | sure it is safer to set that like it is now |
| 07:51.28 | Eryn_1983_FL | not me BCMM , i like to do auto with puppet and screw up my system for a week... |
| 07:51.43 | grady | but perhaps debian can offer something what ubuntu have, "do-release-upgrade" tool |
| 07:52.12 | Haohmaru | so is "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free" enough to have in sources.list ? |
| 07:52.49 | BCMM | Haohmaru: you should probably have the security repo |
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| 07:53.01 | Haohmaru | is there an example sources.list? |
| 07:53.26 | BCMM | sort of. https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Example_sources.list |
| 07:53.42 | BCMM | it's out of date but trivial to modify (stretch->buster) |
| 07:54.09 | Haohmaru | but my own sources.list looks like that, it's for stretch :/ |
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| 07:54.20 | BCMM | i do think debian should probably have an official "default" sources.list on the web site somewhere, especially now that users are not encouraged to manually choose a mirror... |
| 07:54.20 | Haohmaru | okay, bluh, so i need to improvise on it |
| 07:54.45 | BCMM | Haohmaru: do you have `deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ something/updates main` ? |
| 07:54.59 | Haohmaru | i normally don't even touch apt or sources.list.. i've been using synaptic |
| 07:55.21 | Haohmaru | yes |
| 07:55.26 | BCMM | Haohmaru: are you upgrading from stretch to buster? there's a guide for that... |
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| 07:55.39 | Haohmaru | stretch/updates main |
| 07:55.44 | Haohmaru | yes |
| 07:55.49 | Haohmaru | and i'm reading the guide |
| 07:55.50 | acagastya | Hello. I updated my OS to Debian 10 last night. But after the update, locate-pointer is not functioning. |
| 07:56.15 | Haohmaru | assuming this is the guide: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#backup |
| 07:56.35 | BCMM | yup |
| 07:56.50 | Haohmaru | but it still gives me much confooz |
| 07:56.55 | acagastya | Is this a bug, or is it working for others? |
| 07:56.58 | grady | btw, update servers working great |
| 07:57.04 | BCMM | acagastya: what's locate-pointer? is that a package, or a feature in some program or other? |
| 07:57.29 | jim | Haohmaru, maybe you could show us your sources.list... cat /etc/apt/sources.list | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 07:57.58 | acagastya | BCMM it is a gnome settings daemon. It gives a ripple effect near the cursor pointer when one presses Ctrl. |
| 07:58.10 | Haohmaru | jim, i'm connected to irc on another machine, not the one i'm trying to upgrade |
| 07:58.18 | Haohmaru | is that a problem? |
| 07:58.25 | Haohmaru | i can just pastebin the sources.list |
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| 07:58.43 | jim | well... are you actually running an upgrade now? |
| 07:58.57 | Haohmaru | no |
| 07:59.09 | jim | Haohmaru, ok, I'd like to see it |
| 07:59.20 | acagastya | I did not change the GNOME shell, from Debian 9 to Debian 10. I was wondering if it broke for someone else as well. |
| 07:59.30 | jim | sounds from what you've said it's pretty standard |
| 07:59.38 | Haohmaru | i got 2 debian9 machines here, one of them doesn't have exotic packages (from backports) so i'm trying to upgrade that one first |
| 07:59.47 | Haohmaru | i'm IRCing from the other one |
| 08:00.14 | jim | is the one you're going to upgrade connected to the net? |
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| 08:01.06 | jim | can you ssh to it from the machine you're ircing from? (easier to cut n paste that way) |
| 08:01.25 | Haohmaru | http://paste.debian.net/hidden/146791db/ |
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| 08:02.14 | Haohmaru | so i commented out all those old lines, and added the new line from the "guide" |
| 08:02.52 | jim | usually the first step of this kind of upgrade, is you run an upgrade of the earlier dist (in other words, without changing the sources.list) |
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| 08:03.15 | Haohmaru | yes, i've updated all packages earlier today |
| 08:03.31 | Haohmaru | via synaptic (reload, then mark all upgrades, apply) |
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| 08:03.50 | jim | this is done in order to bring it uptodate before actually upgrading |
| 08:03.53 | Haohmaru | and removed the packages in sections "obsolete" and "auto removable" |
| 08:04.05 | jim | can you do me a quick favor... |
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| 08:04.42 | jim | can you run (as root): apt update, then run apt dist-upgrade |
| 08:04.50 | jim | to see if it wants to do anything |
| 08:05.10 | Haohmaru | will that start upgrading? |
| 08:05.15 | Haohmaru | ..to 10 |
| 08:05.45 | Haohmaru | note: in a terminal i have "pico sources.list" modified and hanging |
| 08:06.05 | Haohmaru | i mean, i haven't yet finished changing my sources |
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| 08:06.17 | jim | dpm |
| 08:06.19 | jim | err |
| 08:06.20 | Haohmaru | the thing i pasted was backed up sources.list |
| 08:06.30 | jim | don't change your sources yet |
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| 08:06.39 | Haohmaru | okay |
| 08:06.53 | jim | leave the pico file unsaved for now, run those two commands |
| 08:07.06 | Haohmaru | will that attempt to do the actual upgrade? |
| 08:07.07 | jim | maybe, it won't do anything :) |
| 08:07.13 | jim | no |
| 08:07.16 | Haohmaru | sounds scary |
| 08:07.26 | jim | but it will bring your stretch uptodate |
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| 08:08.28 | Haohmaru | okay, it said "0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove, 0 not upgraded" |
| 08:09.09 | jml2 | Haohmaru, you forgot to do the apt-get update :) |
| 08:09.11 | jim | Haohmaru, so, your -stretch- is now completely uptodate (and it was before)... so you're all set |
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| 08:09.38 | deego | Haohmaru: where is the upgrade guide you are reading? is that same as the release notes? |
| 08:10.24 | Haohmaru | jml2, uhm, i used synaptic earlier today and pressed the "reload" button which afaik is equivalent to apt-get update, isn't it? |
| 08:10.47 | Haohmaru | deego, i'm reading this thing: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#backup |
| 08:10.58 | Haohmaru | well, ignore the #backup |
| 08:11.07 | jim | Haohmaru, we can see if anything happened since then... by running: apt update |
| 08:11.25 | deego | Haohmaru: thanxs |
| 08:11.50 | jim | likely, it hasn't yet |
| 08:11.51 | Haohmaru | jim, again, it says "all packages are up to date" *shrug* |
| 08:12.13 | jim | Haohmaru, when you did apt update? |
| 08:12.45 | Haohmaru | two times seconds ago as you told me to |
| 08:12.56 | jim | perfect... |
| 08:13.02 | Haohmaru | and used synaptic earlier today |
| 08:13.04 | jim | then you're all set |
| 08:13.11 | Haohmaru | yes, i thought so too |
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| 08:13.32 | Haohmaru | except, i don't know what to put in sources.list besides the single line that's mentioned in the guide |
| 08:13.42 | Haohmaru | i added "non-free" on it |
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| 08:14.06 | Haohmaru | because i used some silly old nvidia and their nasty driver |
| 08:14.08 | jim | read the rest of the release notes, make sure they don't say anything else to do... |
| 08:14.32 | Haohmaru | okay, so that one line is enough? |
| 08:14.58 | Haohmaru | deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free |
| 08:15.20 | jim | you could start with just that line |
| 08:15.46 | jim | but there's a security updates line too, you can deal with that before or after |
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| 08:16.43 | BCMM | Haohmaru: no, that line is not really sufficient on its own |
| 08:16.53 | Haohmaru | crap |
| 08:17.19 | BCMM | Haohmaru: because you should have the security repo! |
| 08:17.26 | jim | just a sec |
| 08:17.30 | BCMM | https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Example_sources.list |
| 08:17.55 | Haohmaru | ah, thank you muchos grande |
| 08:18.04 | BCMM | Haohmaru: by the way, it looks like somebody just updated that link in the past few minutes |
| 08:18.27 | Haohmaru | the debian gods |
| 08:18.34 | BCMM | so you don't have to change it now; it already says "buster" |
| 08:18.56 | Haohmaru | imma just copy paste these new things from the example |
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| 08:20.18 | jim | Haohmaru, https://termbin.com/uu1q |
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| 08:21.39 | Haohmaru | but afaiu, the main server now has some fancyness that will decide which mirror to redirect you to, so you don't have to explicitly choose one, right? |
| 08:22.43 | jim | you don't have to, but you can... for example, the one I use is on a major university site about 15 mins away from me... and it's -fast- |
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| 08:25.31 | jim | you can use the forwarder thing, or not |
| 08:26.24 | Haohmaru | okayokay, so now, the next step is to upgrade the packages, and use some script thing to record the process in case something bad happens |
| 08:26.31 | Haohmaru | do i gotta log out of the desktop? |
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| 08:26.32 | BCMM | Haohmaru: yeah, if you just use deb.debian.org, it should direct you to a mirror automatically |
| 08:27.07 | BCMM | which is nice, because apart from anything else, it means that if your usual mirror goes down, you'll just transparently get another mirror instead |
| 08:27.09 | jim | Haohmaru, you can run: apt dist-upgrade |
| 08:27.23 | Haohmaru | btw, crap my root partition is not very big |
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| 08:27.51 | themill | you should 'upgrade' prior to doing the 'dist-upgrade' |
| 08:27.54 | jim | ok, let;s deal with your disk sized |
| 08:28.06 | Haohmaru | 14.9GiB with 10.91GiB used |
| 08:28.34 | jim | Haohmaru, could you run: df -h | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 08:29.21 | jim | that will return a url |
| 08:29.37 | Haohmaru | https://termbin.com/kvn1 |
| 08:29.44 | jim | thanks |
| 08:30.18 | Haohmaru | there's space on the /home partition that i could use to resize the root partition |
| 08:30.32 | jim | yeah, you're right... you need more disk space |
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| 08:31.43 | Haohmaru | time to find a usb flash stick with debian live on it |
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| 08:32.05 | jim | Haohmaru, could you run: fdisk -l | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 08:32.21 | at0m | ,v irssi |
| 08:32.22 | judd | Package: irssi on amd64 -- jessie: 0.8.17-1+deb8u5; jessie-security: 0.8.17-1+deb8u5; stretch: 1.0.7-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 1.0.7-1~deb9u1; stretch-backports: 1.2.0-2~bpo9+1; bullseye: 1.2.0-2; buster: 1.2.0-2; sid: 1.2.0-2 |
| 08:32.49 | jim | what's a bullseye?! |
| 08:33.05 | at0m | jim: codename for debian testing since buster became stable |
| 08:33.09 | at0m | !bullseye |
| 08:33.09 | dpkg | The release following Debian 10 "Buster" is codenamed "Bullseye" (Woody's horse in Toy Story 2) and will be Debian 11. It is the current "testing" release. Remember that straight after a stable release, all sorts of mess suddenly lands in "testing" and it is best avoided if you don't like debugging things. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2016/07/msg00002.html |
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| 08:33.19 | jim | ohh, they did that already |
| 08:33.27 | at0m | yea last weekend |
| 08:33.38 | at0m | see /topic :p |
| 08:34.07 | Haohmaru | i'm not getting a url, imma pastebin it |
| 08:34.23 | jim | ok |
| 08:34.40 | Haohmaru | or maybe fdisk isn't returning anything |
| 08:34.55 | jim | try it... fdisk -l |
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| 08:35.23 | at0m | Haohmaru: i wouldn't pastebin any command 'blind' on irc without trying its output locally either |
| 08:35.24 | jim | I'm actually looking to see the partition table of /dev/sda |
| 08:35.41 | Haohmaru | http://paste.debian.net/hidden/1aaeca75/ |
| 08:36.00 | Haohmaru | at0m, yeah, but i knew what fdisk -l spits out usually |
| 08:36.08 | at0m | oki =) |
| 08:37.18 | Haohmaru | i got crapdows7 on that machine, the debian has not been used too much, hence why i decided to try the upgrade on this machine first |
| 08:37.35 | themill | Haohmaru: have you run "apt-get clean" recently? |
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| 08:37.44 | jim | is that the only drive you have in that machine? |
| 08:37.52 | Haohmaru | themill, no, i mostly use synaptic |
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| 08:38.02 | Haohmaru | jim, yup |
| 08:38.23 | themill | Haohmaru: I don't recall whether synaptic cleans the apt cache on its own; perhaps try running that and then see if you've got more free disk space |
| 08:38.25 | Haohmaru | themill, the upgrade guide didn't say anything about apt-get clean |
| 08:38.48 | jim | (I thought earlier that you were all set to upgrade, but now that we see that there's not as much disk space, we should not go further yet) |
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| 08:38.59 | Haohmaru | themill, but i alread have modified (and saved) the new sources.list |
| 08:39.10 | themill | Haohmaru: that's fine for running apt-get clean |
| 08:39.14 | Haohmaru | k |
| 08:39.23 | jim | Haohmaru, could you tell us what this says: |
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| 08:39.55 | jim | du -s /var/cache/apt/archives |
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| 08:40.28 | Haohmaru | 96 |
| 08:40.39 | Haohmaru | but i already ran apt-get clean |
| 08:40.44 | jim | that's all it says? |
| 08:41.04 | Haohmaru | no, it says "96 /var/cache/apt/archives/ |
| 08:41.13 | Haohmaru | with a bunch of spaces in the middle |
| 08:41.49 | jim | Haohmaru, ok, when you do: ls /var/cache/apt/archives/, do you just get two directories? |
| 08:41.51 | themill | Haohmaru: has that freed some space ('df -h /') |
| 08:42.38 | Haohmaru | themill, yes, 6.5G avail now |
| 08:42.59 | jim | ok |
| 08:43.05 | Haohmaru | jim, "lock partial" |
| 08:43.07 | themill | that should be enough to complete the upgrade; you'll get most of that back at the end |
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| 08:43.24 | jim | Haohmaru, right, so it's clean now |
| 08:43.33 | Haohmaru | does the upgrade like.. download and install the new versions, and then delete the old versions? |
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| 08:44.04 | Haohmaru | because one of the programs i got includes a potentially big library (kicad) |
| 08:44.07 | jim | Haohmaru, it replaces each package |
| 08:44.17 | themill | Haohmaru: most packages will get replaced so the disk space change is minimal; some packages you end up with the new and old version both installed until you remove the old one |
| 08:44.20 | Haohmaru | okay, i'd better resize / |
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| 08:44.59 | jim | you're advised to back up first before you resize |
| 08:45.06 | Haohmaru | 30GB for / should be better IMO |
| 08:45.20 | themill | kicad isn't that big |
| 08:45.20 | jim | yeah, a little better |
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| 08:45.31 | Haohmaru | nah, i don't have anything critically important on this debian |
| 08:45.41 | Haohmaru | themill, the libraries are |
| 08:45.59 | Haohmaru | and they're growing |
| 08:46.06 | themill | it's under 300MB |
| 08:46.08 | jim | Haohmaru, what's your intent with the windows installation on that machine? you have almost 400 mb in windows |
| 08:46.30 | jim | sorry, 400gb |
| 08:46.30 | Haohmaru | themill, i know what i'm talking about ;] |
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| 08:46.53 | themill | Haohmaru: the packages are small compared to the space you have available |
| 08:46.56 | Haohmaru | jim, i mostly use crapdows, sadly |
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| 08:47.20 | jim | Haohmaru, and you want to keep using the windows? |
| 08:47.47 | Haohmaru | yeah, these are comput0rs at the job, it has to have crapdows due to a few programs |
| 08:47.59 | jim | ohh |
| 08:48.06 | jim | what about your own machine? |
| 08:48.07 | Haohmaru | for everything else i use debian, kicad on the other machine, librecad, etc.. |
| 08:48.20 | Haohmaru | i haven't upgraded my debian at home yet |
| 08:48.41 | jim | ok, are you at work right now? |
| 08:49.03 | Haohmaru | but it is in a similar situation as the 2nd debian here (it has some exotic packages, from backports, and even some games which were installed in a fancy way (quake3)) |
| 08:49.07 | Haohmaru | yes |
| 08:49.11 | jim | ok |
| 08:49.22 | Haohmaru | so i'm not in a hurry to upgrade those |
| 08:49.37 | Haohmaru | i wanna upgrade the less exotic debian that i don't often use first |
| 08:49.39 | jim | let me ask you this... |
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| 08:50.15 | jim | what is the possibility of slapping a new, larger drive? or even two drives (one for backup)? |
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| 08:50.30 | Haohmaru | can't happen now |
| 08:50.37 | jim | ok |
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| 08:50.53 | Haohmaru | my /home partition has enough free space, i can just push the wall a bit ;P~ |
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| 08:51.11 | Haohmaru | 30GB should be enough for that debian |
| 08:51.40 | jim | I guess you don't have a whole lot of stuff installed there |
| 08:51.51 | Haohmaru | the kicad on it - i haven't even used it, because i use kicad on the 2nd debian, and that machine has no other OSes |
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| 08:52.18 | Lady_Aleena | Hello again. |
| 08:52.23 | jim | hi |
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| 08:52.29 | Haohmaru | yeah, it's just debian with lxde, some xfce stuff, hexchat, CodeBlocks, kicad (not sure why) |
| 08:53.04 | jim | that one you could convert to lvm if you wanted to |
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| 08:53.22 | Haohmaru | you mean the 2nd debian? |
| 08:53.43 | Haohmaru | i don't know about this lvm thing |
| 08:53.47 | Junior | Does anyone use VNC? (tightvncserver) |
| 08:53.48 | jim | yeah, I guess that one is the one you're ircing from |
| 08:54.07 | jim | Haohmaru, want to hear a short blerb on lvm? |
| 08:54.24 | Haohmaru | i'm IRCing from the 2nd debian (the one that has important and exotic things) |
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| 08:54.38 | jim | ok |
| 08:55.00 | Haohmaru | so i don't loose connection if something breaks with the upgrade |
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| 08:55.20 | jim | Haohmaru, what do they do at your job about backing up these machines? |
| 08:55.33 | Haohmaru | aww, don't ask :/ |
| 08:55.43 | Haohmaru | i forbid this question |
| 08:56.15 | Haohmaru | we copy/paste stuff onto a samba server |
| 08:56.25 | Lady_Aleena | When a question is forbidden, freedom is lost. |
| 08:56.33 | jim | Haohmaru, that's too bad, because you're taking a risk with all the stuff you're doing |
| 08:56.41 | Haohmaru | i know |
| 08:56.55 | Haohmaru | but the important stuffz are on the /home partition |
| 08:57.04 | jim | and you're taking that risk -yourself-, it's all on you |
| 08:57.39 | Haohmaru | i know |
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| 08:58.15 | jim | ok, as long as you know that... still, we'll tell you what the risky operations are |
| 08:58.40 | jim | one of those is resizing a filesystem (should back up the entire filesystem first) |
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| 08:59.25 | Haohmaru | that's on the 1st debian machine, which has crapdows too, and the debian on it is not super important |
| 08:59.28 | jim | another is the upgrade itself... we think it's rock solid, but still, things can happen |
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| 09:00.04 | jim | so is the windows fully backed up? |
| 09:00.47 | jim | (that's big... at least 300g) |
| 09:01.20 | Haohmaru | no, but the windows partitions are in the beginning |
| 09:01.44 | jim | with resizing a filesystem, you only risk the filesystem itself... but then, when you resize the partition it's in, you risk EVERYTHING ON THE DRIVE |
| 09:02.03 | Haohmaru | imma only push the "wall" between the two ext4 partitions (/ and /home) to the left ;P~ |
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| 09:02.28 | jim | in gparted? |
| 09:02.39 | Haohmaru | yeah |
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| 09:02.50 | jim | well |
| 09:03.02 | jim | the thing is, you're altering the partition table |
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| 09:03.04 | Haohmaru | from a debian9live usbstick |
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| 09:03.19 | jim | and anytine you do that, you risk the entire drive |
| 09:03.37 | jim | just so you know :) |
| 09:03.57 | jim | anytiMe that is |
| 09:04.23 | Haohmaru | i know, that machine was originally with a 39GB hard disk, i've already moved the crapdows and the linux onto a new HDD, resized them, they survived |
| 09:04.48 | Haohmaru | i even broke the linux first |
| 09:04.57 | Haohmaru | it was a kubuntu, so i'm glad it broke |
| 09:05.02 | jim | you mean the booting of it? |
| 09:05.09 | Haohmaru | i don't remember |
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| 09:05.14 | jim | ok |
| 09:05.20 | Haohmaru | i did bad things in the kubuntu |
| 09:05.27 | jim | heh |
| 09:05.33 | Haohmaru | or was it a lubuntu.. i don't remember |
| 09:05.41 | Haohmaru | some crapbuntu |
| 09:05.53 | jim | anyway... I will be back in a bit |
| 09:06.09 | Haohmaru | yeah, imma be gparting ;P~ |
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| 09:07.15 | Haohmaru | my 2nd debian was also on a smol HDD, and i had trouble with running out of space, then i moved it to a bigger HDD, now there's space on it |
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| 09:23.14 | Haohmaru | resized.. crapdows appears to be unaware that anything happened, the debian seems to boot too |
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| 09:25.32 | Haohmaru | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:26.45 | Haohmaru | so in the upgrade guide, there's this step telling me to mount stuff - do i need this?! |
| 09:27.10 | Haohmaru | i've not done fancy things in fstab |
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| 09:28.52 | Lady_Aleena | jim, are you still interested in the bug I reported? |
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| 09:29.02 | Haohmaru | he went away for a bit |
| 09:29.08 | Haohmaru | he'll be back |
| 09:29.09 | Lady_Aleena | Ah. |
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| 09:33.53 | emyd | ,llvm |
| 09:33.55 | grady | where xorg.conf is now days⦠i have older radeon on my test server and i get "out of range" |
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| 09:34.32 | emyd | my quest for today is to add the amdgpu firmware files to the initramfs |
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| 09:35.16 | emyd | found this one and wonder if it's up to date https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-install-amdgpu-drivers-on-debian-9-stretch-linux |
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| 09:36.41 | emyd | if that's all correct i only need to install firmware-linux and am done |
| 09:38.02 | emyd | wow |
| 09:38.27 | emyd | i have a display even after restart now. that was easy |
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| 09:55.22 | Haohmaru | emyd, <magic.gif> |
| 09:55.58 | emyd | :) |
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| 10:00.25 | Lady_Aleena | Is there a way to compare files between Debian versions? In GTK, I was using the Redmond theme in Stretch, however, it appears it is not even working in Buster. |
| 10:00.48 | Lady_Aleena | Several GTK themes appear broken. |
| 10:01.01 | petn-randall | Lady_Aleena: Probably a lot of things switched from GTK2 to GTK3, and the theme is only providing for GTK2. |
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| 10:01.34 | Lady_Aleena | How do I know what XFCE is using? |
| 10:01.41 | Lady_Aleena | s/know/find out/; |
| 10:01.48 | petn-randall | Though I'd expect them to not ship in that case. Are the themes still available in buster, or are those orphaned packages? |
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| 10:02.35 | Lady_Aleena | petn-randall, I don't know if the packages are orphaned, but I still have them on my system. |
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| 10:04.26 | petn-randall | Lady_Aleena: I'm also using xfce. Which menu setting are you looking at? Appearance -> Style? |
| 10:04.43 | Lady_Aleena | petn-randall, yes. |
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| 10:05.40 | Lady_Aleena | Industrial, Raleigh, and Redmond appear broken. There may be more, but those are the ones I remember from my last pass through them all. |
| 10:06.09 | Lady_Aleena | And Xfce-redmondxp is NOT the same as Redmond. |
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| 10:09.24 | ca1ek | anyone here use debian in WSL and upgraded to buster? |
| 10:09.27 | ca1ek | does it work? |
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| 10:11.10 | Lady_Aleena | petn-randall, did I bore you? |
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| 10:12.55 | petn-randall | Lady_Aleena: No, I'm just working, too. |
| 10:13.27 | Lady_Aleena | petn-randall, sorry, I didn't know you were at work. I will wander away now. |
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| 10:13.46 | petn-randall | Lady_Aleena: redmond looks fine to me. It's quite a bright theme for my taste. |
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| 10:14.31 | Lady_Aleena | Can I see a screen shot? |
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| 10:15.03 | petn-randall | Sure, one sec. |
| 10:16.56 | petn-randall | Lady_Aleena: https://i.imgur.com/MHS9zfq.png |
| 10:17.42 | Lady_Aleena | Damn! It works for you and not for me? You're on Buster right? |
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| 10:20.42 | Lady_Aleena | petn-randall, I fixed it! |
| 10:21.04 | Lady_Aleena | does a happy dance! |
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| 10:23.01 | Lady_Aleena | petn-randall, I had to get rid of .gtkrc-2.0 in my $HOME. |
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| 10:26.52 | petn-randall | Lady_Aleena: Ah nice! Congrats! |
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| 10:30.12 | petn-randall | Lady_Aleena: How did it look like on your screen, btw? |
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| 10:31.30 | Lady_Aleena | petn-randall, here is how it currently looks: http://fantasy.xecu.net/files/images/screenshot_redmond.png |
| 10:32.34 | Lady_Aleena | I think that it WAS defaulting to Breeze or something. |
| 10:32.56 | petn-randall | And it looked more broken before deleting .gtkrc-2.0? |
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| 10:34.15 | Lady_Aleena | Yes. It was hard to look at. While I use white backgrounds on everything, Redmond is just dark enough around the edges to relieve my eyeballs from strain. |
| 10:35.15 | Lady_Aleena | Plus for those programs that use GTK, I have actual scrollbars. |
| 10:35.18 | mureena | Breeze-Dark is bliss on Hexchat |
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| 10:36.24 | no_gravity | Would it be possible to add my own key handler to bash, so that pressing ctrl+, will expand to the last file in the current dir? |
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| 10:42.40 | Lady_Aleena | no_gravity, while I don't know how to help with the ctrl+ question, how do you define the last file in directory? |
| 10:44.25 | no_gravity | Lady_Aleena: That's the easy part. The last one when sorted alphabetically. |
| 10:44.31 | no_gravity | Lady_Aleena: I can easily write a function for that. |
| 10:44.39 | no_gravity | But how do I attach it to CTRL+,? |
| 10:45.36 | Lady_Aleena | no_gravity, I wish I could help with that. |
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| 10:46.30 | Jubei | howdy :) I have a bunch of /dev/loop* interfaces listed when I run the "du" command and I'm curious what they all are. https://pastebin.com/AjRMKp40 |
| 10:46.37 | Jubei | any ideas? |
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| 10:47.42 | Jubei | oh turns out they are snaps, created by snapd |
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| 10:49.39 | themill | no_gravity: I had no idea how flexible it is, but readline does have macro support and you can define things in .inputrc |
| 10:50.04 | no_gravity | themill: Wow, let me read into this... |
| 10:51.08 | themill | see the Readline section in bash(1) |
| 10:52.06 | no_gravity | Can you write the functions directly into .inputrc? |
| 10:52.25 | themill | print-last-kbd-macro makes me think so |
| 10:55.05 | no_gravity | Hmmm... i tried like this: |
| 10:55.08 | no_gravity | test() { echo 123 } |
| 10:55.08 | no_gravity | Control-q: test |
| 10:55.21 | no_gravity | But nothing happens when I hit CTRL+q |
| 10:55.37 | HarmtH | no_gravity: ctrl+, just generates a ',', at least in my terminal, so you cannot map it |
| 10:55.41 | HarmtH | no_gravity: but you could try alt+, |
| 10:55.49 | no_gravity | HarmtH: Ok, but how? |
| 10:56.06 | HarmtH | no_gravity: c-q is also a special one, usually reserved for flow control by your terminal |
| 10:56.16 | HarmtH | no_gravity: if you didn't disable that |
| 10:56.21 | no_gravity | Ok, what could I map? |
| 10:56.57 | no_gravity | "Control-e: test" does nothing either |
| 10:57.04 | no_gravity | When I press CTRL+e |
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| 10:57.25 | HarmtH | you are using bash? |
| 10:57.28 | no_gravity | yup |
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| 10:58.20 | no_gravity | One thing is strange. As soon as I put this into my .inputrc: "test() { echo 123}" I cannot press t anymore |
| 10:58.45 | HarmtH | I'm not that familiar with .inputrc syntax, but it seems that you mapped t |
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| 10:59.23 | no_gravity | Yeah.. when I add "a() { echo 123 }" I cannot press a anymore. |
| 10:59.45 | HarmtH | no_gravity: If you just want the mappings in bash and not in other programs that use the readline library, you can just as well use 'bind' |
| 10:59.56 | no_gravity | HarmtH: How would that work? |
| 11:00.23 | Lady_Aleena | sighs, happy dancing is over. |
| 11:00.39 | Lady_Aleena | I can't find the Helvetica font anywhere in Debian packages. |
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| 11:01.47 | pja | Lady_Aleena: Helvetica is a commercial font. |
| 11:01.55 | no_gravity | Funny, adding this to .inputrc makes CTRL+o output "hello": Control-o: "hello" |
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| 11:02.42 | no_gravity | But how can one assign code? |
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| 11:03.11 | pja | Lady_Aleena: You can get something /close/ to Helvetica by installing fonts-freefont-ttf, or you can get hold of a copy of helvetica that you have a legal right to use & install it yourself. |
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| 11:04.18 | Mathisen | ¤join #archlinux |
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| 11:06.04 | HarmtH | no_gravity: the syntax for bash key bindings is: bind '"\C-e":function' |
| 11:06.13 | Lady_Aleena | pja, if it isn't name Helvetica it doesn't count. |
| 11:06.16 | HarmtH | no_gravity: or bind -x '"\C-e":command' |
| 11:06.22 | Lady_Aleena | s/name/named/; |
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| 11:06.57 | no_gravity | HarmtH: Awesome! |
| 11:07.00 | no_gravity | fun() { echo "123"; } |
| 11:07.02 | no_gravity | bind -x '"\C-o": fun' |
| 11:07.04 | no_gravity | Now CTRL+o prints 123 \o/ |
| 11:08.20 | themill | Lady_Aleena: what are you trying to achieve? |
| 11:08.39 | no_gravity | Oh, but that is does not work as I want... |
| 11:08.48 | Lady_Aleena | themill, I am trying to get my website to look like it should, and the font should be Helvetica. |
| 11:09.01 | no_gravity | When I type "vim CTRL+o" it just writes 123 below the current line. |
| 11:09.06 | no_gravity | Not as a command argument to vim |
| 11:09.21 | themill | Lady_Aleena: you are free to pay someone for Helvetica or to use one of the several free clones that have the same metrics and are not called Helvetica. |
| 11:09.25 | Lady_Aleena | themill, now I don't know how long I've been without it. I swear I had it in jessie. |
| 11:10.12 | themill | Considering no visitor to your website is likelt to have a font actually called Helvetica either, I'm not sure where you're going with this |
| 11:11.15 | pja | themill: You can use a webfont these days - most browsers will download them alongside the website. |
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| 11:11.30 | Lady_Aleena | themill, I think I know what is sending the look of my site out of whack. Firefox no longer as an actual scrollbar. It has a little teeny tiny line that wants to be a scrollbar. |
| 11:11.37 | pja | or, if you refer to a standard repo, might evem have them cached. |
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| 11:11.54 | Lady_Aleena | s/longer as an/long has an/; |
| 11:11.56 | themill | pja: sure, but installing a local copy of the font is still not relevant to that |
| 11:12.06 | pja | themill: That |
| 11:12.09 | pja | âs true. |
| 11:12.37 | Lady_Aleena | Oh forget it! It is past 7am in the morning and I am too tired to care over much about grammar and spelling. |
| 11:12.50 | pja | Lady_Aleena: If youâre relying on having a local commercial font to get your website to look right, then nobody else will see it the way you do. |
| 11:13.32 | Lady_Aleena | pja, it isn't the font that is sending my site's look out of whack for me. It is the lack of a real vertical scrollbar. |
| 11:13.39 | themill | «font-family: Helvetica, arial, sans-serif;» looks sensible enough |
| 11:13.49 | diogenes_ | Lady_Aleena, and your eyes are too tired :) |
| 11:14.00 | no_gravity | THIS WORKS! fun() { READLINE_LINE+=`nls | tail -n 1`; } |
| 11:14.06 | no_gravity | Where nls is my "nice ls" which outputs only filenames. |
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| 11:14.18 | pja | themill: Sure, but if your layout relies on the Helvetica letter spacing then itâs not going to work on most peopleâs browsers. |
| 11:14.28 | pja | (this is why you donât do that of course) |
| 11:14.31 | Lady_Aleena | pja, that was from MY site. |
| 11:15.21 | themill | The metrics for helvetica and arial are close enough to be indistinguishable unless you're working really hard, and they probably are widely enough supported |
| 11:15.37 | Lady_Aleena | I will stop for now. I had a really good early morning with setting up Debian and XFCE. I will put off trying to get a real scrollbar in Firefox after I have slept. |
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| 11:17.04 | Lady_Aleena | themill and pja, thank you for bearing with me as I figured out why my site was looking a bit wonky. |
| 11:18.01 | themill | np have fun |
| 11:18.02 | HarmtH | no_gravity: Nice find |
| 11:18.18 | HarmtH | no_gravity: maybe update READLINE_POINT as well |
| 11:18.32 | no_gravity | HarmtH: Will see. Maybe its nice as it is. |
| 11:18.46 | Lady_Aleena | Have a great day everyone! |
| 11:18.56 | debuser_ | Hi. I've just upgraded from Stretch to Buster, and I've noticed that Linux is powercycling the disk when entering S3/standby state, as opposed to just spinning it down. This doesn't happen with the Stretch kernel, and I'm a bit worried since it's showing up in the SMART disk wear stats. |
| 11:19.17 | themill | no_gravity: interesting set of hieroglyphs in the end :) |
| 11:19.39 | no_gravity | I tend to use this now, without nls: |
| 11:19.44 | no_gravity | printLastFileInDir() { READLINE_LINE+=`ls -1 | sort | tail -n 1`; } |
| 11:19.51 | debuser_ | Hi. I've just upgraded from Stretch to Buster, and I've noticed that Linux is powercycling the disk when entering S3/standby state, as opposed to just spinning it down. This doesn't happen with the Stretch kernel, and I'm a bit worried since it's showing up in the SMART disk wear stats. Is this intended? what about reverting to the previous behavior? |
| 11:21.22 | HarmtH | no_gravity: With this one you go to the end of the line as well: bind -x '"\C-e":"READLINE_LINE+=$(ls | tail -1); READLINE_POINT=${#READLINE_LINE}"' |
| 11:21.40 | HarmtH | no_gravity: all on one line |
| 11:23.18 | no_gravity | HarmtH: Yeah, but I'm not sure that is what I want. |
| 11:23.29 | HarmtH | no_gravity: I don't think you have to sort ls output, it it sorted by default |
| 11:24.56 | no_gravity | Ah yes, let me remove that! |
| 11:25.07 | no_gravity | I would prefer to map it to ALT+, instead but not sure how. |
| 11:27.23 | HarmtH | no_gravity: If you're terminal is 'correctly' configured, it's as easy as mapping "\e," instead of "\C-e" |
| 11:27.35 | no_gravity | HarmtH: Nice, let me try ... |
| 11:29.08 | no_gravity | HarmtH: YAY! Awesome! |
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| 11:29.43 | HarmtH | no_gravity: Nice :-) |
| 11:30.26 | no_gravity | Next step: Make ALT+, *toggle* through the files instead of just displaying the last one. |
| 11:30.29 | no_gravity | But not today :) |
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| 11:35.50 | jim | Lady_Aleena, hi... about the bug you reported, any action? |
| 11:36.54 | no_gravity | I wonder if I could put it all into the bind command so I don't need a function. |
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| 11:39.09 | HarmtH | no_gravity: already gave you that, just remove the READLINE_POINT=${#READLINE_LINE}" part if you don't like it |
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| 11:40.02 | no_gravity | HarmtH: Oh, I see! Let me try ... |
| 11:41.17 | no_gravity | HarmtH: Pretty awesome! Thanks! |
| 11:42.15 | no_gravity | Not that I think about it ... considering I want to implement the toggle through all files functionality .. I might better keep it as a function. |
| 11:42.23 | no_gravity | s/Not/Now |
| 11:43.58 | jim | Lady_Aleena, I see that you got a reply |
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| 11:46.32 | pja | debuser_: What else would you expect it to do? S3 is supposed to be power only to RAM to maintain state - everything else is supposed to be turned off. |
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| 11:48.42 | a0z | jim, Lady_Aleena is afk (said so in #debian-offtopic) |
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| 11:50.56 | debuser_ | pja, well perhaps, but this is new behavior, I'm quite sure it doesn't happen w/ the stretch kernel. I'm wondering if there's a way of going back to the old behavior where the disk is only spun down. |
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| 11:52.01 | pja | debuser_: Guessing here, but I would suspect that previously the kernel wasnât managing to get into S3 but only to S1 before, whereas the new kernel maybe has fixed an ACPI corner case or something & is getting to full sleep. |
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| 11:52.43 | pja | Presumably the drive was spinning down before? Itâs spin-up/down cycles that matter, not power cycles so much anyway, so the only difference youâre seeing is in the smart stats IMO. |
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| 11:53.20 | pja | Beside, you have up to date backups, right? :^) |
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| 12:03.37 | humpled | does #offsec even exist |
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| 12:06.32 | Mathisen | yes it does, but it is for students |
| 12:06.44 | herring88 | `gpg --list-keys` doesn't list any keys |
| 12:06.57 | Guest50 | Hello everyone, do you know when will AMIs be released for buster? |
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| 12:07.51 | herring88 | seahorse can't list them either |
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| 12:11.37 | Jubei | I'm trying to follow a guide to transition my filesystem to lvm and one command fails https://www.thegeekdiary.com/centos-rhel-converting-an-existing-root-filesystem-to-lvm-partition/ |
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| 12:11.47 | Jubei | it's the "tar -cvpf - --one-file-system --acls --xattrs --selinux / | tar -C /mnt/NEW_ROOT_PARTITION -xf" command |
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| 12:12.13 | Jubei | can somebody tell me what this command is supposed to be doing? |
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| 12:18.55 | EdePopede | Jubei: puts the root fs into a tar and directly unpacks it into the mounted new fs |
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| 12:19.46 | Jubei | EdePopede thank you for the reply. If that's the case then why does the guide have a "cp -aux /dev /mnt/NEW_ROOT_PARTITION" following that command? |
| 12:20.01 | EdePopede | i don't think i ever piped it like this, but look at the SYNOPSIS in its manpage, it has some entries with > tar -c [-f ARCHIVE] |
| 12:20.16 | Jubei | I get tar: option requires an argument -- 'f' |
| 12:20.29 | EdePopede | looks like it's missing the source from which it has to unpack |
| 12:20.36 | Jubei | ah I see |
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| 12:21.20 | EdePopede | - would be stdin i guess, and --show-defaults or the end of --help seem to have the defaults used when -f is ommited completel |
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| 12:21.21 | EdePopede | y |
| 12:21.53 | Jubei | any idea on how to change the command so that it functions?:) |
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| 12:22.29 | EdePopede | says -f- here, looks so i'd say STDIN |
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| 12:23.14 | EdePopede | '-f -' (or maybe -f- but i always use the extra space) or probably without the f option at all would use stdin |
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| 12:24.44 | EdePopede | i think i'll never get the chance to run tar with a real tape |
| 12:24.56 | koollman | you never know |
| 12:25.59 | Jubei | EdePopede ok. I'm trying without the -f at the end and it's doing something. let's see. Thank you very much! ^_^ |
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| 12:26.35 | EdePopede | yw |
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| 12:27.03 | smsimeon | huh |
| 12:27.09 | EdePopede | koollman: actually i have a commodore datasette around. an idea if it could work at least in theory? |
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| 12:27.19 | smsimeon | Just decided to try out Buster, but it hangs for me on boot |
| 12:27.27 | Jubei | the problem with this tar command is that it's probably creating some tar archive before copying. But the reason I'm copying the root filesystem to another disk is because I don't have space ^_^ |
| 12:27.34 | smsimeon | this is the live image I'm trying |
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| 12:28.10 | Jubei | so it says no space left on device. Hmm... I wonder if there's another safe way to copy the root filesystem to another disk |
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| 12:28.38 | EdePopede | Jubei: does it create the complete archive first? |
| 12:29.27 | EdePopede | Jubei: maybe rsync or cp with backup options, tar also uses some here. |
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| 12:31.00 | EdePopede | Jubei: but just for safety i'd start with a test directory tree including extended attributes and the like to see if the options used fit. |
| 12:31.17 | colo-work | ,pbuilder |
| 12:31.20 | colo-work | hmm |
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| 12:31.26 | Oksanaa | Power Management configuration module could not be loaded. And no, I do not see it under "Startup and Shutdown". How do I return to this computer ability to go into Suspend/Hibernate? |
| 12:31.44 | colo-work | isn't there a recommended alternative for easy rebuilds (of existing packages on another release) available? |
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| 12:32.11 | Oksanaa | Debian 4.9.144-3 (2019-02-02) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 12:32.30 | HarmtH | tar is streaming |
| 12:32.34 | HarmtH | doesn't create the archive first |
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| 12:35.40 | volter | Are people still using pbuilder or is there something easier to use? |
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| 12:36.26 | volter | Oh, nevermind my question, it's up the same alley as colo-work's. |
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| 12:38.46 | EdePopede | !pbuilder |
| 12:38.46 | dpkg | pbuilder is, like, "personal package builder", a package which creates a chroot for building packages which are optionally targetted at releases other than the currently installed release. It is useful for checking that a package has the correct build-dependencies as well. apt-get install pbuilder && pager /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/README.Debian. Many pbuilder users end up wishing they had used <sbuild> all along |
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| 12:39.37 | Oksanaa | !sbuilder |
| 12:39.48 | Oksanaa | !sbuild |
| 12:39.48 | dpkg | The 'sbuild' package provides a way to build Debian packages within <chroot> environments that are managed using the <schroot> utility. Building within sbuild saves installing the build-dependencies on your machine and also compiles in a clean environment; sbuild is used on the Debian <buildd> network. See https://wiki.debian.org/sbuild |
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| 12:45.12 | Oksanaa | This laptop is louder than a refrigerator. |
| 12:45.44 | Oksanaa | So, what should I do to got suspend/hibernate working? Debian, KDE |
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| 12:52.40 | dvs | So the Power Management setting in the System Settings app is not enough? |
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| 13:08.58 | han-solo | hello, the last link in `https://wiki.debian.org/SoftwarePackaging` no longer valid right ? |
| 13:09.27 | tarzeau | han-solo: nope |
| 13:09.38 | tarzeau | if you mean this last link: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/03/31/packaging.html |
| 13:09.50 | han-solo | Yep |
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| 13:10.16 | han-solo | wondering where can i get that :) |
| 13:11.59 | touki | Hi there. I have an issue with sleeping / hibernating mode in Debian. The observation is that: the computer does never sleeps a second time (I can put it to sleep once, but than, when I reopen it, it does not go to sleep). The issue that seems to cause that is that the SWAP is full -- as a matter of fact, the SWAP is about the size of the RAM. Any idea how to address that? |
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| 13:34.22 | Jubei | EdePopede it looks like it creates the full archive first. |
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| 13:34.47 | Jubei | i'll try with a small dir tree first. THanks. |
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| 13:49.18 | roylaprattep | i have a question |
| 13:49.42 | roylaprattep | since stretch dist-upgrade, my logwatch is very minimal compared to when i was on jessie... |
| 13:49.57 | roylaprattep | i have many section that aren't there anymore, like mdadm for example... |
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| 14:10.20 | NetTerminalGene | does kde plasma use wayland by deault like gnome on buster? |
| 14:10.46 | riezaizu | What program manages logs in /var/log on a new Buster install? |
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| 14:11.05 | smsimeon | NetTerminalGene: I think no |
| 14:11.23 | greycat | riezaizu: any program that has permissions to write there, but the big one is rsyslog |
| 14:11.34 | riezaizu | Is rsyslog installed by default? |
| 14:11.43 | smsimeon | and probably logrotate |
| 14:11.54 | riezaizu | Does systemd not have it's own logger? |
| 14:12.04 | greycat | systemd's logging is done in memory only, by default |
| 14:12.13 | greycat | if you want systemd's logs written to disk, you have to create a directory manually |
| 14:12.33 | riezaizu | So systemd doesn't replace rsyslog then? |
| 14:12.55 | greycat | no |
| 14:12.57 | themill | (see /usr/share/doc/systemd/README.Debian for details on persistent logging) |
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| 14:14.11 | mason | Hm. Does the Buster installer know how to deal with ESP on MD-RAID1 by chance? |
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| 14:14.59 | Resilience | greets the channel |
| 14:15.40 | Resilience | the intel atom x7 has free graphic drivers or hasn't? |
| 14:16.22 | greycat | The main question will be whether you need some firmware. Check "dmesg | grep -i firmware" and look for errors. |
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| 14:36.12 | JyZyXEL | mason i was pondering the same thing just yesterday and decided against raiding the ESP or boot |
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| 14:36.13 | roylaprattep | greycat: you have any idea about my question? |
| 14:36.45 | mason | JyZyXEL: I might have a look. It's easy enough to set it up after the fact with metadata=1.0 but it'd be nice if the installer did it. |
| 14:37.20 | mason | JyZyXEL: For setting it up after the fact, I start with the first half as a straight ESP and the second disk's equivalent being a degraded raid out of the box. |
| 14:37.27 | mason | Then once it's booted you can convert. |
| 14:37.32 | JyZyXEL | mason: yeah metadata 1.0 for sure, but will it work with grub-install / update-grub |
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| 14:37.53 | mason | JyZyXEL: it will |
| 14:39.15 | mason | JyZyXEL: The thing to examine is if it'll do the right thing with efibootmgr, but you can turn that off with dpkg-reconfigure |
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| 14:43.02 | JyZyXEL | mason: someone suggested to use --removable with grub-install to prevent efibootmgr from trying to use the raid array as the location for esp |
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| 14:43.34 | mason | JyZyXEL: Hm, I'm unfamiliar with that, but you can definitely have it not update boot variables with dpkg-reconfigure. |
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| 14:43.54 | mason | JyZyXEL: Which I imagine will be safe, as why would the binary names change? |
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| 14:44.27 | JyZyXEL | this is why i didn't bother even trying. too much uncertainty :P |
| 14:44.31 | riezaizu | Has nftables replaced iptables such that iptables should not ever be used? |
| 14:44.50 | greycat | https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#nftables |
| 14:45.08 | JyZyXEL | i just manually dd'd my esp and /boot partitions to another SSD |
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| 14:46.22 | JyZyXEL | though now that i think about that, it creates two filesystem UUID collisions |
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| 14:53.16 | astronavt | does anyone know why https://packages.debian.org/stretch/libraw15 was removed in buster? |
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| 14:54.24 | greycat | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libraw |
| 14:54.47 | greycat | ,v libraw19 |
| 14:54.48 | judd | Package: libraw19 on amd64 -- bullseye: 0.19.2-2; buster: 0.19.2-2; sid: 0.19.2-2 |
| 14:54.52 | astronavt | ah thanks. is there a link to that page from the usual package page? |
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| 14:55.03 | astronavt | i have a program here that explicitly depends on libraw15 x_x |
| 14:55.23 | greycat | Then install the stretch library package, or change the source code so it can link with version 19. |
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| 14:55.51 | astronavt | i only have a .deb, ill have to get it from stretch |
| 14:55.51 | astronavt | thanks |
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| 15:05.19 | markuman | I try to set /etc/timezone to Europe/Berlin. after running `sudo dpkg-reconfigure -f noninteractive tzdata`, it is set back to Etc/UTC. any ideas? (debian buster) |
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| 15:06.36 | greycat | /etc/timezone is just a one-line text file. Can you just edit it instead of running dpkg-reconfigure? Or even echo '...' > file? |
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| 15:06.47 | mason | markuman: You're asking for something that wants input and then not letting it interact... Let it be interactive? |
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| 15:07.15 | greycat | Or just *don't* run the dpkg-reconfigure at all. Why are you even doing that? |
| 15:07.40 | themill | You also need to set /etc/localtime |
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| 15:08.15 | mason | Or... timedatectl |
| 15:08.33 | mason | markuman: In the new world order, do this stuff with timedatectl. |
| 15:09.02 | markuman | mason: ah yeah, just in time I've found this too. that works for me. thx |
| 15:09.48 | greycat | Oh, it *is* a symlink, not a text file. Damn it. |
| 15:10.21 | mason | greycat: localtime's a symlink, as it should be, but we were talking about timezone, which is as you noted a text file |
| 15:10.46 | greycat | Argh. |
| 15:10.54 | mason | Unless it's a symlink in Buster, which I just realized I don't actually know. |
| 15:11.04 | greycat | Why... why are there TWO of these things... |
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| 15:11.25 | mason | greycat: That's why we *need* things like localectl and timedatectl and hostnamectl. *Need*. |
| 15:11.39 | greycat | Or, we just need to NOT HAVE TWO OF THESE THINGS. |
| 15:12.04 | greycat | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 36 Apr 1 08:58 /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York |
| 15:12.07 | greycat | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 17 Apr 1 08:58 /etc/timezone |
| 15:12.09 | mason | greycat: You have to accept the future, where it's all stored in XML and JSON and we use compiled tools to set values. |
| 15:12.23 | jhutchins_wk | Oh come on, linux always has at leat three ways to do any given task. |
| 15:12.29 | tarzeau | mason: no thans! |
| 15:12.30 | jhutchins_wk | least |
| 15:12.42 | tarzeau | jhutchins_wk: the unix way, windows ini file, and? |
| 15:12.43 | mason | jhutchins_wk: We should centralize it all in... in some kind of... registry... |
| 15:12.49 | jhutchins_wk | mason: Registry! |
| 15:13.00 | tarzeau | that's what gconf/dconf (GNOME people did) |
| 15:13.09 | greycat | "two ways to do x" is totally different from "two conflicting, parallel means of implementing x, each of which is used by half the programs on the system" |
| 15:13.12 | mason | Then we could centralize on *one* tool, and call that tool regedit! |
| 15:13.12 | tarzeau | and it broke even worse than microsoft registry |
| 15:13.33 | tarzeau | mason: regedit wasn't as bad as gconf/dconf |
| 15:13.51 | tarzeau | likes defaults best, with GNUstep |
| 15:14.05 | mason | greycat: To be honest, I'm not sure why /etc/timezone exists or when it came about. I suspect most things ignore it, but who knows? |
| 15:14.12 | tarzeau | existed since 1989 (NeXTSTEP), no idea why all suffered by NIH |
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| 15:14.55 | mason | hrm |
| 15:15.11 | tarzeau | mason: you'd wonder! see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnustep-base/+bug/1312709 |
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| 15:16.20 | mason | Interesting. Thank you. |
| 15:16.30 | tarzeau | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=tzdata;dist=unstable |
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| 15:17.20 | lsjet | Gnome seems to want to become Windows, repeating all the same mistakes and bad design decisions. |
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| 15:18.03 | tarzeau | lsjet: it already has been so, since 10+ years |
| 15:18.13 | tarzeau | lsjet: since they started their own register. gconf, gconf2, dconf |
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| 15:18.18 | greycat | I see a localtime(5) man page but no timezone(5). Is /etc/timezone documented anywhere? |
| 15:18.25 | themill | lots of things use /etc/timezone, including cron, glib, firefox, ... |
| 15:18.35 | n1md4 | hi. installed unattended upgrades on debian. what what i can tell it applies upgrades twice daily at 600 and 1800, with a 12h randomiser. what I don't understand is how it also appeared to run when booted just now (i.e. not at the scheduled time) |
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| 15:18.53 | annadane | there's a timezone(3)... |
| 15:19.16 | annadane | which seems to be a link to tzset |
| 15:19.23 | greycat | (3) is library calls |
| 15:19.29 | ayekat | it seems like /etc/timezone is debian-specific |
| 15:19.45 | mason | ayekat: Look at tarzeau's links, above. |
| 15:20.28 | dvs | n1md4, is anacron installed? |
| 15:21.28 | ayekat | mason: alright then... debian-specific *as in it hasn't been a thing for many years |
| 15:21.45 | n1md4 | @dvs yes |
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| 15:21.56 | greycat | /etc/init.d/cron: TZ=`cat /etc/timezone` |
| 15:22.02 | jmcnaught | n1md4: it's because of Persistent=true in apt-daily.timer. That directive is documented in 'man systemd.timer' |
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| 15:22.59 | tarzeau | https://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=%2Fetc%2Ftimezone |
| 15:23.09 | mason | ayekat: I do wonder if it's a thing in MacOS still. Don't have a Mac handy to look. |
| 15:23.18 | n1md4 | jmcnaught: thanks. |
| 15:23.24 | greycat | but I don't see anything analogous in the systemd cron.service |
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| 15:32.08 | luna_ | Firefox 68 is now out and starts rolling out to everyone in 29 minutes |
| 15:32.25 | greycat | wut |
| 15:32.58 | diogenes_ | Hey guys, is there any "official" debian desktop environment that is more polished or supported than others? like for instance Fedora has gnome as official and all others are respins, ubuntu had unity (now it's gnome too) and all others are flavors and so on. |
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| 15:33.23 | ayekat | nope, there isn't |
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| 15:33.29 | greycat | ESR 68 will be *created* today, but it won't hit Debian until ESR 60 expires, in October. |
| 15:33.34 | annadane | gnome is what you get if you install desktop environment with no other options |
| 15:33.46 | annadane | whether it's *more* polished... i don't know, probably not |
| 15:33.54 | diogenes_ | so it's gnome, ok thanks. |
| 15:33.55 | dvs | diogenes_, well, Gnome is the default if that's what you mean. |
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| 15:34.19 | ayekat | diogenes_: gnome is the default, but it's not in any way more "official" than the other DEs |
| 15:34.33 | greycat | Debian supports choice. Many of us use a different DE, or no DE at all. |
| 15:35.22 | diogenes_ | ayekat, the reason i asked is because gnome is a new verio as well as kde is a new version too and other DEs (e.g. xdce) is still the older version. |
| 15:35.29 | diogenes_ | version* |
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| 15:35.39 | diogenes_ | xfce* |
| 15:35.53 | annadane | xfce is notoriously slow, and debian just missed the window for xfce 4.14 |
| 15:36.12 | annadane | slow in development, i mean |
| 15:36.16 | diogenes_ | i see |
| 15:36.24 | greycat | "Debian again ships with several desktop applications and environments. Among others it now includes the desktop environments GNOME 3.30, KDE Plasma 5.14, LXDE 10, LXQt 0.14, MATE 1.20, and Xfce 4.12." |
| 15:36.28 | annadane | debian can only do so much concerning upstream |
| 15:36.30 | greycat | From the buster release notes. |
| 15:36.39 | annadane | well stretch had xfce 4.12.3 and buster has 4.12.4 *shrug* |
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| 15:37.54 | diogenes_ | one excellent fact about buster non-free, unlike stretch non-free, buster sees my wireless card out of the box. |
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| 15:38.40 | humpled | so nice how xfce stays the same |
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| 15:39.54 | Akuw | 0 0 *** root test -x /scripts/run.sh && /scripts/run.sh what means && |
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| 15:40.07 | Akuw | and why 2 user name root and test |
| 15:40.22 | petn-randall | ... |
| 15:40.35 | petn-randall | Akuw: test is the program being run. |
| 15:40.53 | ayekat | is that a crontab entry...? |
| 15:40.55 | greycat | (the first program) |
| 15:40.58 | Akuw | yes |
| 15:41.07 | greycat | If it's supposed to be a crontab entry, you need spaces between those *s. |
| 15:41.13 | petn-randall | Akuw: "&&" means "run the right side of the operator if the left side exited cleanly. |
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| 15:41.38 | petn-randall | Akuw: But that's only valid in shell, so I don't think that works in cron. |
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| 15:41.55 | greycat | Yes, it works in crontab lines which are parsed by /bin/sh. |
| 15:41.55 | Akuw | but same script? |
| 15:41.59 | annadane | doesn't it? it's worked for me in cron... |
| 15:42.12 | greycat | The only special thing about crontab lines that you have to beware of is the % character. |
| 15:42.37 | greycat | But you MUST fix that *** error. It needs to be * * * instead. |
| 15:42.44 | petn-randall | And that it's a non-interactive shell that doesn't have $PATH set, amongst other things. |
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| 15:43.42 | Akuw | dont worry i just write witout spaces here |
| 15:43.50 | Akuw | but are ok in crontab |
| 15:44.00 | greycat | Akuw: DO NOT DO THAT |
| 15:44.02 | humpled | grrr |
| 15:44.21 | dvs | ??? |
| 15:44.26 | greycat | PASTE your actual errors and file contents and commands and so on. NEVER retype them, and ESPECIALLY never retype them WRONG. |
| 15:44.50 | dvs | oh |
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| 15:45.23 | Akuw | k |
| 15:45.32 | ayekat | petn-randall: cron is launched as a systemd service, which should have PATH set to some sane value (not sure what part sets that, though) |
| 15:45.52 | greycat | yeah, I was just looking for that, and it's not immediately obvious |
| 15:45.54 | ctcx | If wanting to backup USB stick or hard drive with dd, I can do it either for entire disk or partition, right? |
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| 15:46.44 | greycat | The /usr/sbin/cron process on my buster is running with PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin according to ps. |
| 15:47.21 | greycat | This appears to match the default $PATH setting shown in systemd.exec(5), which is good. |
| 15:48.07 | greycat | So, systemd sets cron's default $PATH as documented, cron keeps it, and (if the man pages are not lying), crontab jobs inherit it from cron. |
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| 15:48.36 | greycat | You could also test it by launching a crontab job that dumps the env. |
| 15:48.39 | ctcx | Also, I noticed, if from image to USB, USB must be unmounted, but if the other way around like right now, USB must be mounted? |
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| 15:50.05 | petn-randall | Oh wow, that's new. For the longest time cron failed over such things. |
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| 15:52.46 | ctcx | ? |
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| 15:57.12 | ctcx | greycat: hello |
| 15:58.14 | greycat | ,bug 822733 |
| 15:58.15 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/822733 in tzdata (open): «tzdata: Drop /etc/timezone»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2016-04-26; last modified: 2016-04-27. |
| 15:58.30 | greycat | I guess that's as good as I could hope for at this point. |
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| 15:59.21 | jmcnaught | ctcx: I'm not sure I understand your question, but you do not want the filesystem mounted if you are copying the underlying block device whether it is a partition or the entire drive. |
| 16:00.06 | greycat | (mounted read-only may be OK) |
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| 16:02.47 | ctcx | greycat, jmcnaught: when trying to backup my USB with dd to an iso image, I first unmounted USB, and did "dd if=/dev/sdb of=/my/folder/image.iso", and dd threw error |
| 16:02.57 | ctcx | "No data found", or something like that |
| 16:03.11 | ctcx | Had to mount USB to get it to work for both partition and entire USB... |
| 16:03.32 | jmcnaught | ctcx: what was the exact error? How did you unmount? |
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| 16:04.44 | techie28 | Hi.. I tried to upgrade to Buster from Stretch which seem to have completed successfully as I can see version 10.0 on doing "cat /etc/debian_version" |
| 16:05.31 | techie28 | afterwards I again tried to run apt update && apt upgrade but it shows something like "gnupg-l10n was installed automatically & no longer required" |
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| 16:05.58 | dvs | techie28, so apt-get autoremove |
| 16:06.02 | dvs | ? |
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| 16:06.15 | techie28 | apt upgrade seems to do nothing. |
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| 16:06.28 | jmcnaught | techie28: do you still have gnupg installed? |
| 16:06.51 | petn-randall | techie28: What do you expect it to do at this point after upgrading? |
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| 16:08.16 | techie28 | instead of "apt-get autoremove" I used "apt autoremove" which showed the progress bar completing too but on further doing apt update it shows the same long list of packages & apt upgrade doesnt seem to do anything.. I expected it to inform that system is up to date. |
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| 16:08.42 | techie28 | output of apt update & apt upgrade https://paste.debian.net/1090947/ |
| 16:09.01 | dvs | techie28, but no apt full-upgrade? |
| 16:09.26 | techie28 | dvs: no I did not do it that way |
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| 16:10.44 | jmcnaught | techie28: did you follow the upgrade instructions in the buster release notes? 'apt full-upgrade' is a required step. |
| 16:12.04 | techie28 | jmcnaught, I used the sed command to update the sources.list & then did apt update && apt upgrade |
| 16:12.21 | dvs | techie28, you're missing that step |
| 16:13.05 | jmcnaught | techie28: you may also want to check the release notes for things to be aware of and other steps you might have missed: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/releasenotes |
| 16:13.44 | techie28 | apt update && apt upgrade seems to reinstalling the "gnupg-l10n" while still showing me the long list of packages. |
| 16:14.10 | techie28 | jmcnaught, dvs : so I will run the full-upgrade now I hope it wont break the system? |
| 16:14.38 | dvs | techie28, this is a step on upgrading to buster |
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| 16:16.09 | Akuw | how can i know what screen Xorg is running |
| 16:16.14 | techie28 | "sed -i 's/stretch/buster/g' /etc/apt/sources.list" I used this & ran an update |
| 16:16.34 | jmcnaught | techie28: reading the instructions takes a lot of the mystery out of it |
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| 16:17.20 | techie28 | jmcnaught, yes sorry I thought it would work fine this way too. |
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| 16:18.01 | techie28 | I m running the apt full-upgrade |
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| 16:21.59 | velix | Is Bullseye out? When will Bullseye be released? |
| 16:22.06 | velix | SCNR :D |
| 16:22.18 | dvs | I did that yesterday |
| 16:22.24 | velix | dvs: And I did it today :-) |
| 16:22.24 | dvs | !wwbr |
| 16:22.25 | dpkg | Debian 10 "Buster" started the <freeze> process on 2019-01-12 and should release on July 6, 2019. See https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/06/msg00003.html. |
| 16:22.31 | velix | meeeh :-) |
| 16:22.35 | dvs | They're still hung up on buster |
| 16:22.43 | velix | Buster is sooo yesterday. |
| 16:23.05 | annadane | bullseye????? wait 2 years |
| 16:23.09 | annadane | unless you want to use testing... |
| 16:23.19 | velix | annadane: Sure, in a container I will. |
| 16:23.27 | velix | btw, I stepped into Linux world on Woody. |
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| 16:32.58 | J_C | Hi. I'm on Debian 10 currently. I currently have Secure Boot disabled. To enable it, do I simply install the 'shim' package (and the signed fwupd and fwupdate packages as I use those too) and then go to by BIOS and enable secure boot? Or is the process a bit more complex? |
| 16:33.17 | greycat | https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#secure-boot |
| 16:34.03 | J_C | Ouch, curse my poor reading skills. Thanks. |
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| 16:41.28 | ctcx | jmcnaught: 1) plug USB, gets automounted, right click -> unmount in file explorer, gets unmounted and /dev only shows sdb. Plug USB, gets automounted, unmount it with umount command as root (as normal user I get "operation not permitted"), gets unmounted, but sdb1 is still visible in /dev |
| 16:41.36 | ctcx | WTH? This is confusion |
| 16:41.57 | ctcx | But, if unmounting with the first method, when doing dd I get "no medium found" |
| 16:42.04 | ctcx | With second method dd works. |
| 16:42.09 | ctcx | WTH? This is confusion |
| 16:42.10 | greycat | You're saying the file system is on a partition, but the partition device intermittently vanishes from /dev? |
| 16:42.16 | jhutchins_wk | J_C since the intent of secure boot is to prevent you from installing Linux, you might just leave it off. |
| 16:42.26 | ctcx | NO |
| 16:42.39 | ctcx | I tried 2 methods of unmounting my USB |
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| 16:43.52 | lsjet | ctcx, unmounting the filesystem on a usb device will not make the /dev node for the device or partitions go away |
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| 16:44.41 | greycat | (if it *does*, there is something very bad going on) |
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| 16:45.05 | lsjet | ctcx, also, do not dd to or from a device node if it has mounted partitions. The filesystems will be in a dirty state. |
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| 16:47.07 | ctcx | Well, as I said, I tried those 2 ways of unmounting. By using "umount /mount/point" it unmounted and the node at /dev still there. |
| 16:47.45 | ctcx | But, if unmounting via the GUI file manager, with right click device -> expel, node goes away from /dev |
| 16:48.33 | greycat | Earlier you said you clicked "unmount", but now it's "expel"? |
| 16:49.02 | lsjet | ctcx, the file manager is doing more than unmounting. |
| 16:49.04 | jhutchins_wk | Sounds like the GUI uses the eject command. |
| 16:49.07 | lsjet | yes |
| 16:49.18 | makayabou | I'm using a pxe server with Debian 10. It contains debian repos as local mirror (done with apt-mirror). When I try to install on a client, I get an error about packages seahorse, modemmanager and spice-client-glib-usb-acl-helper having inconsistent sizes. However server and mirror are up to date. Is there something special about those packages that my preseed didn't specificly asked for..? |
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| 16:50.37 | greycat | jhutchins_wk: yeah, I wonder if he's translating the actual words into English on the fly, and has mistranslated something as "expel" when the intent is "eject". Because it definitely sounds like an eject to me also. |
| 16:51.17 | ctcx | greycat: I'm sorry sir, I'm in the middle of a predicament right now and I'm unable to think clearly. I know this is no pretext. |
| 16:51.28 | ctcx | greycat: I meant file manager does "eject" |
| 16:51.37 | ctcx | Sorry all |
| 16:51.57 | ctcx | (Now I even cut my finger!) |
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| 16:52.31 | lsjet | ctcx, when the injuries start, it's time to relax and take a deep breath |
| 16:52.54 | ctcx | ok |
| 16:53.10 | ctcx | So actually "eject" does more than "unmount" normally? |
| 16:53.15 | greycat | Yeah. |
| 16:53.16 | lsjet | yes |
| 16:53.53 | greycat | If you're old enough to remember floppies or CDs, the actual media gets physically shoved out of the slot. |
| 16:53.53 | lsjet | It unmounts the file system, but also "ejects" the device making it invisible to the OS until reinserted |
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| 16:54.25 | lsjet | greycat, quit making us feel old |
| 16:54.26 | greycat | USB thumbdrives don't have the physical mechanisms in place to spring out, so the software tries to do the next best thing. |
| 16:54.32 | lsjet | ;) |
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| 16:57.02 | ctcx | Oooooohhhhhhhhhh |
| 16:57.08 | ctcx | Makes sense at last! |
| 16:57.32 | ikus060 | I just installed debian buster from a fresh install. Was running stretch before. I have a strange behaviours with the sound. When I plug a headphone, the laptop's speaker are making noise. My audio device is Audio device: Intel Corporation Cannon Lake PCH cAVS. Not sure where to start to fix this |
| 16:58.01 | greycat | lsjet: if you're old enough to actually remember why the mount operation is called "mount", you have my respect. I only know it from reading. |
| 16:59.19 | ctcx | greycat, lsjet: I started with Linux at a relatively late age; I do remember CDs of course, but floppies, barely: I was just able to use brain memory when they already began to be shadowed by CDs... |
| 16:59.28 | ctcx | (meaning I must have been very very young.....) |
| 16:59.47 | greycat | then you've probably a CD ejected from the drive |
| 16:59.50 | greycat | seen* |
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| 17:03.40 | lsjet | I still have programs on floppy, and audio cassette! |
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| 17:05.17 | lsjet | I have 5-1/4 and 3-1/2 disks. Never worked with the larger ones though. |
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| 17:06.49 | ctcx | So, when "ejecting" USB I can safely pull it physically; and when "unmounting" it I can also pull it safely? |
| 17:06.56 | lsjet | My only experience with 8 inch floppys was the movie wargames. |
| 17:07.30 | lsjet | ctcx, yes |
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| 17:08.17 | humpled | what about sync tho |
| 17:08.30 | greycat | I never used 8" floppies. I did use a tape-on-a-reel once, but it wasn't with the stand-up cabinet sized tape drives you see in the movies. It was a weird desktop enclosure thing, and the tape reel went in lying flat. |
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| 17:08.43 | greycat | So it wasn't real mounting. |
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| 17:10.27 | ctcx | lsjet: so, what's the difference between "umount" and "eject", aside the later unmounting all partitions and seemingly deleting all nodes in /dev? |
| 17:10.56 | greycat | Your DE's eject apparently tries to mimic removal of the device to such an extent that the kernel no longer sees the partition table. |
| 17:11.02 | stryker | Hello, guys! How r u? I'd like to know one thing: using Synaptic, you can see the option "Section" which shows you all the packages that belong to "Debug", "Email", "Languages" etc. How can I list sections using "APT" or "APT-GET"? Thank you for your attention. |
| 17:11.22 | greycat | Your guess is better than mine how/why it does that. It's your DE. (You never even said which one it is. You just said "GUI".) |
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| 17:11.56 | greycat | stryker: sounds like you're looking for aptitude instead |
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| 17:12.14 | stryker | greycat: Oh, thanks. I'll try it. |
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| 17:12.32 | asafniv | Hi, where can I get powerpc (32 bit) debian images? The mirrors i've tried gave me a 404 |
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| 17:12.41 | asafniv | thanks |
| 17:13.08 | ctcx | greycat: KDE |
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| 17:14.33 | greycat | asafniv: that's no longer a supported architecture, but you might be able to find older releases for it: /msg dpkg archive |
| 17:15.07 | greycat | also: /msg dpkg ppc |
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| 17:19.39 | lsjet | ctcx, is there a problem, or are you just trying to understand unmounting? |
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| 17:20.56 | ctcx | lsjet: only trying to understand |
| 17:21.44 | lsjet | ah |
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| 17:33.31 | raidensnake | I'm having issues trying to install lightdm on buster armhf |
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| 17:34.26 | raidensnake | it won't install properly on the pi 4./ |
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| 17:35.35 | naptastic | ok, I've got a weird situation. Apt is running in a TTY, and for some unknown reason, I can't switch to that terminal anymore. |
| 17:35.52 | naptastic | From `ps auxfwwww` I can see that it's waiting for me to give it permission to restart services without asking. |
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| 17:36.17 | greycat | By TTY, you mean a Linux console? Ctrl-Alt-Fsomething? If so, which one, and how did you verify this, and how are you trying to switch to it, and what happens when you try? |
| 17:36.18 | naptastic | Is there a way to tell it "please go ahead"? Is there a signal I can send, or something I can echo into STDIN or something? |
| 17:36.59 | naptastic | greycat, I'm using alt+Fx and it confirms that I'm on TTY2 (because I've got stuff going there), 3, 5, and 6. |
| 17:37.14 | greycat | What does your ps command show? |
| 17:37.21 | naptastic | If I request 1, 4, 7, or 8, nothing happens. |
| 17:37.37 | naptastic | I'm trimming this for brevity |
| 17:37.54 | asafniv | greycat thanks |
| 17:37.59 | naptastic | whiptail --backtitle Package configuration --title Configuring libssl1.1:amd64 --output-fd 11 --defaultno --yesno -- There are services installed on your system which need to be restarted when certain libraries, such as libpam, libc, and libssl, are upgraded. Since these restarts may cause interruptions of service for the system, you will normally be prompted on each upgrade for the list of services you wish to restart. |
| 17:37.59 | naptastic | You can choose this option to avoid being prompted; instead, all necessary restarts will be done for you automatically so [...] |
| 17:38.19 | asafniv | looks like i'll have to find another distro, i want to run something updated on my wii |
| 17:38.19 | greycat | Not the command part. The terminal part. It should tell you which terminal (tty or pts) the process is on. |
| 17:38.23 | naptastic | greycat, that's the process as it's listed, minus the stuff on the left. |
| 17:38.40 | naptastic | greycat, OH! How do I tell that? |
| 17:38.42 | greycat | Since you used "u" format, the tty should be the... 7th field. |
| 17:38.48 | naptastic | tty1 |
| 17:38.52 | naptastic | it's right there in front of me |
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| 17:39.08 | greycat | Do you have an X session running on tty1 as well? |
| 17:39.23 | naptastic | Nope. This system is headless. |
| 17:39.59 | naptastic | (What controls what the TTYs do, anyway? Their behavior is mysterious to me.) |
| 17:40.02 | greycat | So you're using ... what, some sort of virtualized console ... magic ... thing? |
| 17:40.12 | naptastic | greycat, I'm SSH' |
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| 17:40.24 | greycat | You don't have access to the virtual consoles over an ssh session. |
| 17:40.27 | naptastic | damnable enter key being right next to apostrophe |
| 17:40.49 | naptastic | greycat, yeah, I foolishly started `apt upgrade` in a local TTY without using screen. |
| 17:41.26 | naptastic | It's one of those lessons... I've been doing this for 14 years and I still forget that long-running commands should be in screen/tmux. It is one of my most consistent failures as a sysadmin. :'( |
| 17:41.33 | greycat | So there *was* a monitor/keyboard attached, and you logged in on that, and started apt-get, and then disconnected them? |
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| 17:42.06 | naptastic | greycat, they're still connected in the next room. I can still switch TTYs locally; just 1, 4, 5, and... crap, now I don't remember. |
| 17:42.28 | naptastic | but when I ctrl+alt+Fx for x=[1,4,5,?] nothing happens. |
| 17:42.51 | naptastic | Switching TTYs is functional for x=[2, 3, 6] |
| 17:42.55 | naptastic | I hope this is making sense |
| 17:43.36 | naptastic | (so, IRC and an SSH session are running at the terminal where I am now; the server with the problem is in the next room, and has a console hooked up as well.) |
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| 17:43.53 | naptastic | greycat, sorry for the info dump, but is it the right info? Can you help me? :) |
| 17:44.04 | greycat | Walk over to it, answer the question or Ctrl-C the whole show and start over in a screen session. |
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| 17:45.37 | naptastic | greycat, since I can't get to the TTY where the process is running, am I likely to cause irreparable damage if I start sending SIGTERM to things until the Apt lock gets freed? |
| 17:46.11 | greycat | I would keep going until there's nothing left on tty1, don't just stop when a lock message goes away. |
| 17:46.30 | naptastic | greycat, solid advice. I will proceed immediately. Thanks for the help! |
| 17:46.39 | greycat | ps -ft tty1 |
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| 17:48.51 | Rovanion | Does anyone have any ideas on scripting GUI interaction? What I want to do is print a bunch of web pages, essentially. |
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| 17:49.15 | naptastic | greycat, `ps -ft tty1 | awk '/tty1/{print$2}' | xargs kill -15` did the trick! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. |
| 17:49.29 | greycat | I would've gone slower, but that's just me. |
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| 17:50.20 | humpled | ..takes ahold of teh wand...closes eyes tightly... |
| 17:50.30 | raidensnake | lightdm just black screens whenever I try to start it. |
| 17:50.36 | naptastic | Rovanion, I'm pretty sure Selenium or phantom.js (which uses Selenium under the hood) will do what you need. Be warned though, they're heavy. |
| 17:51.24 | Rovanion | naptastic: The thing is though: These can't drive the native GUI widgets that appear when I press C-p, can they? |
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| 17:52.08 | naptastic | Rovanion, Nope. I, uh... I have no ideas. glhf :( |
| 17:52.26 | Rovanion | No worries :D |
| 17:53.25 | Rovanion | Ah, I think I've heard this name before: xdotool! |
| 17:54.09 | raidensnake | I don't get it. on stretch lighdm works just fine but buster it bugs out. |
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| 17:59.43 | raidensnake | I keep getting these errors with lightdm |
| 17:59.46 | raidensnake | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:59.55 | raidensnake | Could not enumerate user data directory /var/lib/lightdm/data: Error opening directory '/var/lib/lightdm/data': No such file or directory |
| 18:00.32 | raidensnake | this is on a clean install of buster armhf |
| 18:00.56 | raidensnake | I also get this |
| 18:00.59 | raidensnake | Error opening audit socket: Protocol not supported |
| 18:01.15 | miskatonic | why does luakit not count as www-browser? |
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| 18:05.10 | jasonwc | Since upgrading to Buster, my syslog has been flooded with these messages: "ebian-desktop tracker-miner-f[26163]: (../../src/libtracker-miner/tracker-monitor.c:765):monitor_event_cb: code should not be reached" |
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| 18:06.05 | jasonwc | Any idea what's causing this? htop doesn't show unusually CPU activity associated with it. Not sure if it matters but I'm using ZFS as my root filesystem |
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| 18:06.25 | lsjet | Rovanion, I've never used it, but have you looked at autokey? |
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| 18:10.44 | gvth | I would like to calculate 16.777.216 ^ 1.024.000 . Which calculator could do that? I just need an approximate result. |
| 18:11.00 | greycat | bc |
| 18:11.00 | gvth | And amount of decimal places would be interesting |
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| 18:11.25 | Resilience | gvth inside of bc scale=number of decimal digits |
| 18:12.30 | greycat | looks like bc is going to churn a LOT of cpu to calculate this |
| 18:12.56 | Resilience | greycat, me doing it too xD |
| 18:12.57 | lembron | wolfram-alpha API? 1.4908639104806613905731757729970118775908120631115... Ã 10^7398113 |
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| 18:14.05 | gvth | If I have done no mistake that's the amount of different images my computer monitor can display when the resolution is 1280x800, right? |
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| 18:15.47 | naptastic | gvth, most video cards prefer 32-bit color modes to 24-bit, since it's easier to move 4 bytes around and keep them aligned than 3 bytes. The last byte will be used for transparency or ignored. |
| 18:16.30 | naptastic | So the size of one buffer = (1200 * 800 * 4) bytes |
| 18:16.48 | naptastic | divide your available video RAM by that number. |
| 18:18.25 | Resilience | gvth, if I don't remeber wrong 16777216^1024000= res -> ln(6777216^1024000)=ln(res) -> 1024000*ln(6777216) = ln(res) -> e^[ 024000*ln(6777216) ] = e^[ ln(res) ] -> res = e^[ 024000*ln(6777216) ], maybe this has shorter computing time than the rpreviosus one |
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| 18:19.55 | greycat | Resilience: even that one was taking too long in bc, so I killed it |
| 18:20.08 | DammitJim | if I have a directory with permissions 775, but then do a mount as root, why do the permissions change to 755? |
| 18:20.30 | DammitJim | what do I need to do to always make sure the proper owner and permissions are set correctly when performing the mount? |
| 18:20.41 | greycat | the permissions of the mounted file system overlay the mount point totally |
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| 18:20.59 | greycat | chmod after mounting |
| 18:21.03 | DammitJim | so, if the mount was specified in fstab, I need to add parameters for the owner/permissions there? |
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| 18:21.21 | greycat | is it an NTFS or VFAT? |
| 18:21.31 | DammitJim | ext4 |
| 18:21.35 | greycat | the permissions of the mounted file system overlay the mount point totally |
| 18:21.36 | greycat | chmod after mounting |
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| 18:21.54 | gvth | naptastic: but the amount of colors a pixel can display is 2^24 nonetheless, isn't it? |
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| 18:24.06 | ikus060 | After some trial and error, figure my issue with sound it causes by laptop-mode-tools that was installed. As of today, doesn't is worth it ? I mean doesn installing laptop-mode-tools make a different in term of power usage with recent kernel ? |
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| 18:24.39 | jadax | that might be shooting in the dark, but after upgrading from debian 9 to debian 10 - my chrome web browser takes up much more CPU doing same tasks it did before |
| 18:24.43 | gvth | Generally, the amount of images an arbitrary monitor can display is (amount of colors a pixel can display) ^ (resolution). Isn't it? |
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| 18:24.50 | jadax | I use few browsers in parallel, chromium, chrome, firefox |
| 18:24.56 | jadax | with both, regular + private mode |
| 18:25.16 | jadax | but it really seems much worse in terms of CPU usage now comparing to what it was on debian 9 |
| 18:25.21 | jadax | would you have any insights into it? |
| 18:25.37 | gvth | Resilience: I don't understand your calculations since I am not that studied... |
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| 18:25.53 | Resilience | gvth, logarithms |
| 18:26.23 | gvth | Resilience: I only understand the basic logarithms |
| 18:27.44 | teclo- | jadax: are you sure it's the same version of Chromium you are running ? |
| 18:27.55 | Resilience | gvth, these are basic logarithms |
| 18:27.56 | jadax | I'm not, no |
| 18:28.02 | jadax | I don't remember what was previous version |
| 18:28.22 | jadax | I'm simply observing something different now and trying to figure out what happened / how I can fix that |
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| 18:36.59 | miskatonic | logarithms are always basic |
| 18:38.21 | jadax | what's the difference between using buster main contrib vs buster main contrib non-free ? |
| 18:38.29 | greycat | !non-free |
| 18:38.29 | dpkg | [non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>. |
| 18:38.55 | greycat | "contrib" is the weird one -- technically free, but it depends on non-free stuff in a fundamental way |
| 18:39.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1571] by debhelper |
| 18:39.07 | jadax | why would I care about having vs not having non-free? |
| 18:39.15 | jadax | is it for big corps & some licensing issues? |
| 18:39.17 | dvs | jadax, some people really do |
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| 18:39.21 | greycat | one example of a "contrib" would be a mini-package that downloads and installs a proprietary program |
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| 18:39.38 | jadax | ok, I'm running workspace at home and I think I don't care at all, I would like to have non-free enabled |
| 18:39.47 | jadax | is there anything I might want to think of before enabling it? |
| 18:39.48 | dvs | jadax, then do it!!! |
| 18:40.13 | greycat | most desktop users, and virtually ALL laptop users, will need to have non-free enabled to get firmware, microcode, etc. |
| 18:40.24 | jadax | yes, I think I need some firmware |
| 18:40.27 | jadax | for IRIS 6100 GPU |
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| 18:40.41 | dvs | what maker? |
| 18:40.55 | jadax | I have Intel NUC with Iris 6100 GPU, it's Intel's GPU |
| 18:40.57 | jadax | built-in |
| 18:41.03 | jadax | or integrated, whatever is the language |
| 18:41.18 | dvs | jadax, yeah, Intel has a firmware package in non-free |
| 18:41.58 | Chunkyz | can anyone help me get ipsec running? |
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| 18:42.30 | gvth | greycat: I am a laptop user and I don't need contrib and non-free. Even my wifi-chipset driver is included in the Linux kernel |
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| 18:43.04 | greycat | that's rare :) |
| 18:43.05 | dvs | gvth, just because the driver is in the kernel doesn't mean it doesn't need firmware package. |
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| 18:43.56 | gvth | dvs: what should I say... It works! :) |
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| 18:45.35 | miskatonic | no, I do noty use non-free firmware |
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| 18:46.36 | lsjet | for many people, non-free software is a security risk. Closed = untrustworthy |
| 18:47.27 | greycat | lsjet: That's not completely true. Most of the stuff in non-free is open source, just under a license that doesn't allow free modification and distribution. |
| 18:47.33 | jadax | what about hearbleed |
| 18:47.48 | jadax | that wasn't in non-free as I remember |
| 18:48.09 | cybercrypto | greycat: I agree. |
| 18:48.11 | dvs | jadax, why would that fix be in non-free? Isn't that a kernel fix? |
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| 18:48.29 | jadax | I was refering to non-free being security risk |
| 18:48.30 | greycat | Heartbleed was the name of a security bug/exploit, not a piece of software. |
| 18:48.47 | Chunkyz | can anyone help me get ipsec running? |
| 18:49.06 | jadax | I'm just pointing out that security risks (potentially even bigger ones) can be in not non-free |
| 18:49.13 | lsjet | jadax, it isn't that open-source = perfect. It's that closed source = unverifiable. Closed source can do any malicious thing its owner (not you, the xddeveloper) wants it to |
| 18:49.36 | greycat | SOME of the stuff in non-free may indeed be closed source. |
| 18:49.36 | Chunkyz | it asks for my password, I type it and it doesn't connect? |
| 18:50.17 | lsjet | I won't run anything that won't let me modify it. |
| 18:50.34 | lsjet | Either you control the software or it controls you |
| 18:51.00 | Chunkyz | anyone? :/ |
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| 18:51.14 | lsjet | greycat, yes I know not everything in non-free is "closed". Doesn't matter to me though |
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| 18:52.15 | lsjet | Chunkyz, sorry I haven't used ipsec in forever |
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| 18:53.39 | jadax | I have two displays - DisplayPort one and HDMI one. Previously (before debian 9->10 upgrade) they were called HDMI-0 and DP-1; now they are called XWAYLAND0 and XWAYLAND1 |
| 18:53.44 | jadax | would you know why? |
| 18:54.00 | jadax | I'm having trouble changing display's resolution from 1920x1200 to 2560x1600 |
| 18:54.05 | jadax | the HDMI one |
| 18:54.06 | dvs | jadax, Debian 10 uses Wayland, not Xorg. |
| 18:54.23 | greycat | Debian 10's GNOME uses Wayland by default, with the option to select an X session instead, at login time. |
| 18:54.36 | greycat | The rest of Debian 10 doesn't use Wayland by default. |
| 18:54.38 | jadax | oh, so wayland is alternative X server? |
| 18:54.52 | dvs | yes |
| 18:55.05 | jadax | so xrandr doesn't work with wayland? |
| 18:55.06 | mathisen | some even would say the future... lol |
| 18:55.17 | gvth | I am considering to buy a Purism Librem. What do you guys think about this laptop? |
| 18:55.20 | Chunkyz | can anyone help me get ipsec running? it asks for my password, I type it and it doesn't connect |
| 18:55.25 | lsjet | wayland is an alternative gui system to X... completely different, with completely different applications |
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| 18:55.38 | jadax | oh, ok |
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| 18:55.47 | jadax | do I want wayland? or I should just switch to X alltogether then? |
| 18:56.03 | greycat | Try both and see what you can and can't live with. |
| 18:56.13 | jadax | fair play, that's good idea |
| 18:56.21 | jadax | ok, it's good I know what's going on now |
| 18:56.31 | jadax | because I've been stuck with xrandr *not working* for me all that time |
| 18:56.42 | miskatonic | I do not want Wayland and never will |
| 18:56.52 | jadax | why not? would you share? |
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| 18:57.04 | greycat | Never is a long time. |
| 18:57.36 | mathisen | nothing wrong with wayland, just maybe to early for some use cases. i personaly still waits for sway to be a bit better still until switching from i3 |
| 18:57.41 | miskatonic | wayland does not allow for window managers such as ratpoison |
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| 18:59.02 | miskatonic | so wayland can only be used by mouse-lovers |
| 18:59.28 | mathisen | i wold say sway is an example against that miskatonic |
| 18:59.40 | mathisen | so not 100% truth there |
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| 19:00.07 | lsjet | miskatonic, couldn't a wayland alternative be developed? I know there's a project to create a wayland-based alternative to awesomewm written in Rust. |
| 19:00.18 | jadax | so I can switch between Xorg and Wayland on log-in screen? |
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| 19:00.26 | lsjet | awesomewm, is pretty awesome. |
| 19:00.30 | miskatonic | i3 does not provide a way feigning mouseclicks programmatically |
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| 19:02.49 | shtrb | Is httpredir deprecated infavor of deb.debian.org ? I was able to upgrade to buster over deb but was failing with httpredir |
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| 19:05.25 | Habbie | ,v libyaml |
| 19:05.26 | judd | No package named 'libyaml' was found in amd64. |
| 19:05.28 | Habbie | ,v libyaml-cpp |
| 19:05.29 | judd | No package named 'libyaml-cpp' was found in amd64. |
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| 19:06.41 | miskatonic | the thing in rust is called "waycooler" |
| 19:06.50 | shtrb | httpredir |
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| 19:06.58 | shtrb | !httpredir |
| 19:06.58 | dpkg | The httpredir.debian.org redirector (based on HTTP 302s) was shutdown on 2017-02-13 and replaced by <deb.debian.org>. Existing entries in sources.list will keep working as the DNS entries for httpredir.debian.org have been pointed to deb.debian.org. |
| 19:07.17 | gvth | lembron: I calculated with bc. The most significant digits in my result are the same to yours (14908639104806613...) but the file to which I piped the bc output has 7.615.705 characters which doesn't go in line with what you posted (...Ã10^7398113) |
| 19:07.31 | shtrb | Welp answered to myself then, httpredir is dead long live deb |
| 19:07.53 | miskatonic | awesomewm can be configured in lua for mouseless usage, but the default configuaration of the debian package is heavily mouse-dependant. |
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| 19:08.32 | lembron | gvth sounds about right, wolfram says "full result: 7398114 decimal digits" |
| 19:08.39 | miskatonic | at least in stretch it is ... I don't knoe whether it is still the same in buster |
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| 19:09.29 | lembron | endng in ...0260069376 |
| 19:09.43 | gvth | lembron: any idea why there is such a divergence? |
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| 19:10.32 | lsjet | miskatonic, I mostly use the keyboard in awesome |
| 19:10.40 | gvth | lembron: the ending in my output file is the same |
| 19:11.56 | lsjet | One thing I haven't found a good solution for though is handling the mod key in a qemm vm when both the host and guest run awesome. I don't want to reconfigure either OS to use a different key, but finding a VNC client that will pass the mod key to the guest without reuiring fullscreen mode has been elusive |
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| 19:12.13 | lsjet | s/qemm/qemu |
| 19:13.10 | Scrutinizer | Loved qemm. :) |
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| 19:14.35 | lsjet | Ack, you've made me remember expanded memory. |
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| 19:15.53 | jadax | I have Dell U3011 display (2560x1600 native resoultion) that I'm connecting over HDMI port to Iris 6100 GPU. I have another display connected over DisplayPort. The DisplayPort one works great, displays native resolution. The HDMI one displays 1920x1200 only. On debian 9 I used to use xrandr to --newmode, --addmode, then --output and force 2560x1600 |
| 19:15.53 | jadax | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:16.04 | miskatonic | xdotool is another paramount thing that has no equivalent on wayland |
| 19:16.04 | jadax | I'm using Xorg on debian 10 |
| 19:16.08 | jadax | any suggestions? |
| 19:16.09 | gvth | lembron: are you using wolfram as a desktop application or an online service? |
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| 19:17.05 | lembron | gvth API, free tier |
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| 19:17.23 | gvth | lembron: ?? |
| 19:17.38 | lembron | https://products.wolframalpha.com/api/ 2000req/month |
| 19:17.48 | gvth | lembron: thanks |
| 19:18.16 | lembron | also this https://pypi.org/project/wolframalpha/ |
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| 19:22.03 | brwoods | So, after 9 -> 10, NIS is broken, I generally have to run ypbind after boot to get it working. |
| 19:22.46 | Chunkyz | can anyone help me get ipsec running? it asks for my password, I type it and it doesn't connect |
| 19:22.48 | greycat | brwoods: see my two entries about NIS on https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster |
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| 19:23.09 | greycat | one of them is also mentioned in the release notes (I think they basically copied what I had put on the wiki) |
| 19:23.14 | Chunkyz | I thought this was a help channel? lol |
| 19:23.36 | brwoods | well, that would explain a lot |
| 19:23.40 | brwoods | I'll test that out |
| 19:24.24 | greycat | Those two issues were the only ones that I happened to hit, so there could be more. |
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| 19:25.34 | lsjet | Chunkyz, Sorry not everybody runs every piece of software. Your mileage may vary. In my experience ipsec is not used nearly as often as openvpn, if a vpn is even what you are using it for. |
| 19:26.07 | jadax | well, I was happy camper with debian 9 and HDMI display @ 2560x1600 resolution, now I'm stuck with debian 10 and HDMI @1920x1200 |
| 19:26.25 | jadax | one more time I'm being reminded if it ain't broken don't fix it |
| 19:27.01 | Chunkyz | lsjet, lol openvpn sucks on the pi. |
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| 19:28.36 | jadax | ok I just got it to work, this is such a puzzler |
| 19:28.46 | jadax | xrandr --output HDMI1 --mode "2560x1600_30.00" --primary -v |
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| 19:28.57 | jadax | so it's working on 30Hz instead of 60Hz but that's good enough |
| 19:29.53 | HarmtH | Yeah HDMI 1.4 doesn't have enough bandwidth for that |
| 19:29.59 | lsjet | jadax, this is on a pi? did you back up the sd card before upgrading? |
| 19:30.10 | jadax | lsjet it's on Intel NUC (Iris 6100 GPU) |
| 19:30.17 | Guest23449 | Hello. Can someone tell me, where binaries for buster are located? I have to download one library, traversed whole repo, but couldn't find the folder with *deb pkgs. |
| 19:30.52 | jadax | lsjet and I'm running mini-HDMI cable from NUC to DVI connector on the display |
| 19:30.58 | jadax | but it works now on 30Hz resolution |
| 19:31.04 | jadax | and it worked on <60Hz on debian 9 too |
| 19:31.09 | jadax | so I'm happy |
| 19:31.20 | jadax | 30Hz 2560x1600 resolution* |
| 19:31.57 | jadax | mini HDMI to HDMI doesn't work at all, I tested that configuration extensively |
| 19:32.12 | jadax | that display has many inputs |
| 19:32.26 | jadax | but only DVI can push 2560x1600@30Hz in that configuration |
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| 19:33.33 | brwoods | greycat: that fixed it, thanks |
| 19:34.26 | noln | Guest23449, .deb packages are in /var/cache/apt/archives, binaries are in /usr/bin /usr/lib |
| 19:34.28 | greycat | Cool. Always nice to know I'm not the last NIS user. |
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| 19:35.06 | brwoods | I find it useful for VMs were you can easily have a NIS/NFS sideband network, but YMMV |
| 19:35.09 | noln | Guest23449, maybe describe the big picture of the problem |
| 19:35.10 | Guest23449 | noln: no, i've meant in online repo's |
| 19:35.26 | noln | packages.debian.org/package_name |
| 19:36.22 | Guest23449 | ah yeah.. tried via ftp, but couldn't find it.. ok got the links, thanks :) |
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| 19:41.26 | galeido | hey folks, has anybody got nvidia-390 drivers to work with buster yet? |
| 19:42.34 | Mathisen | ,v nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver |
| 19:42.35 | judd | Package: nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver on amd64 -- stretch-backports/non-free: 390.116-1~bpo9+1; bullseye/non-free: 390.116-1; buster/non-free: 390.116-1; sid/non-free: 390.116-1 |
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| 19:44.29 | galeido | ah, need to add contrib to get it work |
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| 19:44.52 | _fubu_ | has anyone successfully upgraded from stretch to buster on a raspi 2? |
| 19:46.41 | Guest23449 | \quit |
| 19:47.04 | Akuw | i am new in ncurses but have problems to run first sample https://paste.debian.net/1090982/ |
| 19:47.18 | lsjet | here's something which has bugged me forever, but never enough to find a solution: How can you change Debian's networking config (not using network manager) to pass arguments to dhclient so that it doesn' |
| 19:47.41 | lsjet | ...doesn't hang when starting a laptop on a wireless network and that network is unavailable? |
| 19:47.59 | greycat | that's the main difference between "allow-hotplug enfoo" and "auto enfoo" |
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| 19:49.00 | lsjet | hmm, I thought I tried both |
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| 19:51.30 | lsjet | greycat, I was looking for a way to pass -nw to the daemon. |
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| 19:53.04 | tsglove | I just installed debian10. I wanted to install usermod, yet the package is not found. Inside sources.list I do have the buster lines buster main. What am I missing? |
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| 19:54.13 | jmcnaught | tsglove: the usermod command is in the passwd package |
| 19:54.17 | greycat | usermod is a command, not a separate pacakage |
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| 19:54.54 | tsglove | Pardon my ignorance, yet... if I then type #usermod it tells me usermod: command not found |
| 19:55.13 | greycat | !su |
| 19:55.13 | dpkg | su is probably switch/set user. It is used to change User ID's and/or gain super user access. |
| 19:55.13 | jmcnaught | tsglove: did you use 'su' instead of 'su -' or 'su -l'? |
| 19:55.23 | greycat | oh for glob's sake |
| 19:55.38 | greycat | tsglove: try "sudo -s" or "su -" |
| 19:55.44 | peterandre | hi, when i try to install curl with apt install curl it asks me to remove virtualbox |
| 19:55.53 | peterandre | how can this happen ? |
| 19:56.12 | tsglove | jmcnaught, yes I did 'su' . jmcnaught and greycat I think I see now where I went wrong. |
| 19:56.42 | peterandre | like so: The following packages will be REMOVED: |
| 19:56.42 | peterandre | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:56.43 | tsglove | Ok, so on a fresh 10buster install, my user is not in the sudoers file. So that's why I wanted usermod in order to modify it. |
| 19:56.57 | peterandre | i want to keep virtualbox |
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| 19:57.09 | greycat | tsglove: "su" changed its behavior in buster, in a major way. It works like Red Hat now, instead of like Debian always has before. |
| 19:57.16 | tsglove | Oh yeah, I just did $su -l and with the new root login, usermod works. |
| 19:57.18 | greycat | tsglove: "sudo -s" is the closest approximation now |
| 19:57.43 | tsglove | huh... interesting |
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| 19:58.02 | jmcnaught | dpkg: tell peterandre about bat |
| 19:58.09 | tsglove | Yeah, if on a fresh install I do "sudo -s" it tells me I'm not in the sudoers file. Yet if I do "su -l" then I can get in. |
| 19:58.29 | jmcnaught | peterandre: dpkg (a bot) just sent you a private message with info that can help us troubleshoot this with you |
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| 19:58.49 | peterandre | ok |
| 19:58.52 | noln | Akuw, compilation succeeds (*.o exists), linking does not (ld) => add -lncurses to gcc cmdline. Related channel: ##C |
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| 19:59.15 | greycat | https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes |
| 20:00.29 | tsglove | Ah nice... going to check that link now |
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| 20:03.21 | roflbot | hi guys, on a proliant g7 DL380 with a Smart Array P410i, how to change replaced disk without shutting down the whole thing? Not sure what tools are needed that are available on debian |
| 20:03.37 | roflbot | eh, s/replaced/faulty/ |
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| 20:04.25 | roflbot | cciss_vol_status gives me info, but cannot see how to manage disks in the array from the OS |
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| 20:14.21 | peterandre | jmcnaught, i found a solution httpie |
| 20:14.25 | peterandre | alternative to curl |
| 20:14.27 | disi | serious question: why is debian package-based instead of having one gigantic debian repo? |
| 20:14.32 | peterandre | thanks anyways |
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| 20:15.52 | mutante | disi: you can't install all packages at once.. a lot of them will conflict with each other / are alternatives to other ones doing the same thing |
| 20:16.07 | mutante | disi: also.. people don't want to install stuff they dont use |
| 20:16.52 | disi | mutante: ok, but that's more about deployment, right? there could still be one giant repo that everything gets built from (but not necessarily deployed) |
| 20:18.02 | mutante | disi: cloning a gigantic repo and downloading it all just to then only use a fraction of it just seems inefficient |
| 20:18.25 | mutante | disi: wouldn't you still want some kind of logical separation between software and what belongs to what |
| 20:18.57 | disi | mutante: absolutely (i am very anti-monolith repos, but i'm having to defend my position) |
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| 20:19.01 | disi | approaching this from a dev perspective |
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| 20:20.34 | disi | a big point for me is avoiding implicit deps. everything in a single source repo can depend on anything else in that repo implicitly whereas that's harder with smaller subprojects |
| 20:20.48 | jhutchins_wk | disi: There are almost no conditions when you want every package available - over 50,000 of them. |
| 20:20.54 | mutante | disi: i'm sure there are plenty more reasons.. like permissions. would you want the same people to have merge rights on the single global repo.. or rather have the option to give maintainers right to some software but not all |
| 20:21.42 | humpled | this is refreshing, how old is apt btw? |
| 20:22.06 | jhutchins_wk | disi: the repositories are main, which is regular DFS packages, contrib, which is packages that may require non-free dependencies, and non-free, packages that don't meet the DFSG. The latter includes things like firmware binaries. |
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| 20:22.15 | disi | jhutchins_wk: devil's advocate: when something goes wrong, i may need access to any of those packages tho |
| 20:22.19 | greycat | apt(8) was present in wheezy |
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| 20:22.49 | jhutchins_wk | disi: you might want to /msg dpkg nmg for the New Maintainers Guide for how the system works. |
| 20:22.57 | greycat | err... no, sorry, that's apparently just a man page, and not a command |
| 20:23.10 | disi | jhutchins_wk: ah, ok cool |
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| 20:23.32 | greycat | apt(8) BEING A COMMAND apparently starts in jessie |
| 20:23.41 | humpled | the APT system in general seems pretty well worked out |
| 20:23.49 | flipxyz | is debian sid comparable to arch linux in terms of updated softwares? |
| 20:23.54 | disi | mutante: at the end of the day, there are maintainers that evetually decide what pacakges get included in debian tho, right? so those are kind ultra-perms on what goes into debian? (maybe i need to read the nmg before going further) |
| 20:24.02 | greycat | flipxyz: no. |
| 20:24.07 | tarzeau | why not? |
| 20:24.12 | tarzeau | maybe sid+experimental? |
| 20:24.13 | flipxyz | greycat: whats the difference ? |
| 20:24.16 | jhutchins_wk | flipxyz: No, sid is the repository where new packages land before being promoted to testing. |
| 20:24.21 | tarzeau | repology.org has features to compare |
| 20:24.42 | tarzeau | in terms of updated software i think it's comparable |
| 20:24.45 | greycat | Arch is a shrine to the Goddess SNS. Sid is where Debian developers upload what they want to put into the next stable Debian release, eventually. |
| 20:25.06 | jhutchins_wk | disi: Actually, it's more a matter of somebody doing the work to package from upstream and maintain it that gets a package included. |
| 20:25.19 | flipxyz | greycat: makes sense |
| 20:25.22 | greycat | If your entire identity is the sum of the version numbers of your installed packages, Debian is not for you. |
| 20:25.58 | jhutchins_wk | Version Number Envy |
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| 20:26.12 | greycat | If you have ever spurned a piece of software that's less than a year old because it was "too old", Debian is not for you. I'm looking primarily at Node.JS, PHP, Python, et al. developers here. |
| 20:27.22 | flipxyz | greycat: no, its just because I really like to have, for example, the lastest version of Firefox and some other softwares. For me its cool, but recently I started to study debian packaging in a virtual machine and was thinking about doing a migration or something |
| 20:27.29 | greycat | !sns |
| 20:27.29 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
| 20:27.48 | tsglove | Wow... and... did anything special happen to ssh on Buster? |
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| 20:28.05 | greycat | tsglove: what symptoms are you seeing? |
| 20:28.05 | jhutchins_wk | tsglove: I dunno, what do the release notes say? |
| 20:28.09 | tarzeau | tsglove: which ssh? open? drop? gnu? l? |
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| 20:28.36 | tsglove | I'm trying to ssh into a fresh server... yet can't. I uncommented /etc/ssh/sshd_config PasswordAuthentication yes and then restarted ssh via systemctl restart |
| 20:28.37 | greycat | could be connectivity with older systems issue, could be entropy starvation issue, could be anything |
| 20:28.47 | tsglove | Ok, let me try with verbose |
| 20:29.01 | greycat | define what "can't" means |
| 20:29.16 | jhutchins_wk | tsglove: Did you install from a live disk? |
| 20:29.24 | jhutchins_wk | s/disk/iso |
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| 20:29.42 | tsglove | jhutchins_wk, from DVD1... the 3.xGB first dvd |
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| 20:29.57 | tsglove | Ok, sorry. I tried to connect from another machine and it worked fine. |
| 20:30.04 | tsglove | Something must be up with my first-try machine |
| 20:31.21 | greycat | each openssh release deprecates some older ciphers and stuff, so if your first-try machine is running an older release or older config... |
| 20:31.39 | tsglove | Ahh.... that... might be it. I'm still checking... |
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| 20:33.01 | greycat | https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#idm1256 |
| 20:33.20 | mason | ssh -v for the win |
| 20:33.23 | mason | or ssh -vvv |
| 20:33.35 | tsglove | had to do ssh -V |
| 20:33.41 | tsglove | err sorry |
| 20:33.43 | tsglove | for the version |
| 20:34.12 | tarzeau | that's why i run all kinds of ssh implementations on all kinds of ports, heh |
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| 20:35.26 | mason | tsglove: No, -vvv to show you why it won't connect. |
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| 20:36.18 | tsglove | mason, yeah, I know. Brain-fart on my side. I was checking for the openssh version when they mentioned the verbose flags. I crossed-them. =) |
| 20:36.32 | tsglove | er, when you mason mentioned it |
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| 20:37.04 | mason | No worries. :) |
| 20:37.09 | brwoods | I've had it where ~/.ssh/'s permissions were off or something like that too. |
| 20:37.22 | brwoods | ssh is rather picky about some things |
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| 20:41.38 | tsglove | yeah. I was super pumped the other day because I finally *actually* created an ssh tunnel from my local machine to a remote server. |
| 20:41.44 | *** join/#debian uniqdom (~uniqdom@45.232.92.231) |
| 20:41.47 | tsglove | Had read about it for years, yet never did it... "no need". |
| 20:41.54 | tsglove | Yet the other day... done! =) |
| 20:42.04 | mason | Tunnels can be hugely useful. |
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| 20:42.13 | brwoods | Tunnels are pretty neato. |
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| 20:45.06 | BCMM | tarzeau: hang on, there's a gnu ssh? |
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| 20:45.42 | tarzeau | BCMM: sure :) |
| 20:46.34 | tarzeau | BCMM: https://www.lysator.liu.se/~nisse/lsh/ :) |
| 20:46.56 | BCMM | oh, you listed l and gnu like they were separate |
| 20:47.35 | tarzeau | i was wrong, never sure on that ones |
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| 20:48.41 | jhutchins_wk | Would software compiled for Solaris10 run on Linux? |
| 20:48.49 | tarzeau | jhutchins_wk: no, unless cross compiled |
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| 20:49.02 | tarzeau | have fun setting that up. sola10 on usparc or amd64? |
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| 20:49.27 | jhutchins_wk | tarzeau: I think amd64 |
| 20:49.30 | tarzeau | jhutchins_wk: why should it? SUN.COM software?? you know what they cared about JAVA! |
| 20:49.36 | tarzeau | jhutchins_wk: forget it, NO |
| 20:49.54 | jhutchins_wk | tarzeau: I'm trying to figure out if this was done in the past, not trying to do it now. |
| 20:50.22 | tarzeau | that's what i think of that tards: http://www.aiei.ch/gnustep/sun/ |
| 20:50.28 | tarzeau | jhutchins_wk: no, never. |
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| 20:50.34 | jhutchins_wk | tarzeau: Services were transfered from Solaris to Linux with very little change, I don't know if they copied the DB binaries or just the databases. |
| 20:50.37 | tarzeau | jhutchins_wk: unless it was java software :) |
| 20:50.48 | tarzeau | ROFLS LOLS i die |
| 20:51.03 | tarzeau | jhutchins_wk: well written source code, is portable |
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| 20:51.09 | tarzeau | it's called, re-compile |
| 20:51.40 | jhutchins_wk | tarzeau: I think you're missing the point. |
| 20:51.47 | tarzeau | no i'm not |
| 20:52.00 | tarzeau | you can't run any solaris binaries on linux |
| 20:52.05 | BCMM | jhutchins_wk: solaris had a compatibility layer for linux binaries. is it possible that they were using a database compiled for Linux on Solaris, before the migration? |
| 20:52.08 | tarzeau | nor the other way around |
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| 20:52.32 | tarzeau | BCMM: like the freebsd linux support? |
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| 20:54.33 | jhutchins_wk | BCMM: MySQL, I think there was a Solaris verion, I'm not sure. |
| 20:55.00 | mason | So, greycat showed me how to find firmware images here, but how does someone looking at the web site know how to find the firmware ISOs? |
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| 20:56.24 | mason | I'm almost thinking they simply don't. |
| 20:56.31 | BCMM | jhutchins_wk: it was a sun product, so was a solaris version for sure |
| 20:56.39 | BCMM | ^there was |
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| 21:00.31 | jhutchins_wk | So they probably installed the linux package and copied the DB files over. |
| 21:02.07 | noln | mason, https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/index.en.html#nonfree |
| 21:02.11 | noln | mason, https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware#Firmware_during_the_installation |
| 21:02.15 | jmcnaught | mason: the download page links to the non-free ISOs, so does the installer manual |
| 21:02.37 | mason | ah, hadn't thought to look at the manual, and I missed it in the faq but clearly there it is. |
| 21:02.40 | mason | Thank you both. |
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| 21:03.29 | mason | Oh, the FAQ doesn't help. |
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| 21:05.17 | Lady_Aleena | I was so happy this morning, I thought I had all my display issues settled. Then I opened Geany 1.33 in XFCE 4.12.5, and it my display settings didn't take for that program. apt says it depends on libgtk-3-0, but Geany appears not to be honoring my settings for it. That is if XFCE's appearance settings are GTK 3 and not 2. |
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| 21:05.59 | mason | I might be missing it, but the links in the manual are also dodgy. :/ |
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| 21:06.42 | Lady_Aleena | s/and it my/and my/; |
| 21:07.03 | mason | https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware#Firmware_during_the_installation is the most useful thus far. I first hit this because my T420 needs iwl firmware to get wifi during install. |
| 21:07.38 | jmcnaught | mason: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s04.en.html#idm2826 |
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| 21:08.09 | mason | jmcnaught: Right, but if you follow the link there, https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/firmware/, it doesn't get you to ISOs. |
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| 21:08.39 | jmcnaught | mason: the link is in the paragraph, not the <li> below it |
| 21:08.49 | noln | free firmware is already in the isos, so when you say firmware image, you mean image with non-free firmware, free being defined as freedom to modify the firmware etc. not just being gratis |
| 21:08.49 | jmcnaught | third sentence |
| 21:09.00 | mason | jmcnaught: I am clearly blind. Sigh. |
| 21:09.26 | jmcnaught | mason: most people don't read the install manual anyways ;) |
| 21:09.39 | *** join/#debian Krennic (~Krennic@unaffiliated/krennic) |
| 21:09.45 | mason | That said, I know it's a political hotbed, but it's not super easy to find. I wish it were a bit more obvious, as that'd encourage folks to run free software regardless of what hardware they've got. |
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| 21:10.49 | Lady_Aleena | So, is that a debian issue, #xfce issue, or a #geany issue? |
| 21:10.50 | mason | Which is to say, encourage people to become zealots, don't force them to zealously choose hardware that is fully supported by free software in advance. :) |
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| 21:12.11 | Lady_Aleena | I don't want to have to go "shopping" for another text editor because the interface of #geany is so awful now. |
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| 21:14.41 | dstaring | Never heard of "#geany". |
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| 21:14.51 | brandsti_ | Hi! I am writing maintainer scripts for a two project A and B. A depends on B. the install order is B and then A. but the remove/purge order is A and B. How I can reverse the remove order? |
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| 21:15.04 | dstaring | But given that I've never found a single non-garbage text editor for any OS, I don't doubt that it sucks. |
| 21:15.13 | Lady_Aleena | dstaring, it is a text editor, and I thought it was well known. |
| 21:15.52 | brandsti_ | The one and only editor is vim :) |
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| 21:17.17 | Lady_Aleena | I can't stand programs like that on the command line. I get frustrated when I have to use nano to edit config files because it is the only editor I can use as root. |
| 21:17.32 | tsglove | You can´t use vi as root? |
| 21:17.36 | noln | you want to remove the leaf before the root. Think about running services, or a crash in the middle of the removal |
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| 21:18.10 | Lady_Aleena | tagomago, I totally forgot about vi since I've never used it. |
| 21:18.38 | tsglove | lol that guy is going to be going "whaaa?? Somebody pinged me?" |
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| 21:18.55 | tsglove | Lady_Aleena, well, I like vi/vim a lot. Much more than nano. Give it a try! |
| 21:19.17 | tarzeau | likes mcedit |
| 21:19.24 | tarzeau | just to freak out my boss who's vi fan |
| 21:19.28 | annadane | i enjoy nano for simple edits |
| 21:19.33 | annadane | gets the job done |
| 21:19.34 | noln | mason, maybe it's a good thing nobody can put or remove ethics or passion into someone else's brain |
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| 21:21.32 | Lady_Aleena | ACK! vi looks scary without anything to tell me how to do anything. |
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| 21:21.45 | Lady_Aleena | I couldn't even figure out how to get out of it. |
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| 21:22.28 | binaryhermit | I'm a noob, I use nano, but I don't really need a powerful text editor enough to deal with the learning curve |
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| 21:22.32 | binaryhermit | so kill me |
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| 21:23.02 | Monodroid | the easier it is, the better it is. why doing complicated? on the most servers today nano is installed. i know how to use vi, but i switched to nano |
| 21:23.52 | binaryhermit | I find I quite frequently need to install it, but I have superuser rights on all the computers I use nano on |
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| 21:24.43 | binaryhermit | and I'd think almost all sysadmins who have users without superuser rights without it would be willing to install it because those users tend to be kinda noob-y |
| 21:24.57 | binaryhermit | not that there's anything wrong with that |
| 21:25.39 | jmcnaught | nano and vim-tiny are both Priority: important which means they would normally be installed unless "standard utilities" is not selected in the tasksel stage of the debian installer |
| 21:25.40 | kawaii | fwiw I've been doing this job for 5 years, and nano is amazing |
| 21:25.58 | Lady_Aleena | So, does my Geany appearance in XFCE problem stay here, or should I go to #xfce or #geany? |
| 21:26.12 | Monodroid | no beacause the time goes forward and the it is changing alle time. we can use the time to learn oder do other interesting things |
| 21:26.24 | Monodroid | you are right :) |
| 21:27.03 | Monodroid | nothing wrong with nano. the more userfriendly linux are, the better |
| 21:27.08 | Lady_Aleena | is about to scream because she thought she had all the appearance problems solves. |
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| 21:27.42 | binaryhermit | the debian stretch container crostini (linux apps on Chrome OS) uses doesn't have nano, I think |
| 21:27.48 | Monodroid | userfriendly doesnt mean that you have not your cli at your disposition :) |
| 21:27.51 | binaryhermit | but it's ridiculously stripped down |
| 21:28.18 | Monodroid | ChromeOS.. google, right? |
| 21:29.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1574] by debhelper |
| 21:29.13 | Monodroid | my advice : never use software from the enemy :) |
| 21:29.23 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: try reinstalling or make sure all the depends are in order is where i'd start, also strace it. |
| 21:30.52 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: anything is fixable, it's just a matter of time and effort, imo |
| 21:31.13 | binaryhermit | yeah, chrome os is google |
| 21:31.42 | binaryhermit | I've been willingly using it since 2014 with various things offloaded to linux "servers" |
| 21:32.32 | Monodroid | google is like cancer |
| 21:32.45 | binaryhermit | I'm going to try to partially migrate my desktop use to raspbian if my pi4 ever arrives and meets my needs |
| 21:33.26 | mutante | Monodroid: the most recent one that made me think that is when the "Gallery" app insisted on getting my location and contacts or it would not show me my own photo i made 2 minutes earlier |
| 21:33.46 | Monodroid | horrible |
| 21:33.53 | mutante | Monodroid: and then i could work around it by sharing the image to telegram and see it anyways :p |
| 21:34.27 | Monodroid | there are some real evil ppl out there |
| 21:35.09 | Monodroid | what they do is to enslave humanity and this is their goal. and not only google |
| 21:35.16 | mutante | yea, still want to root the S5 and install LineageOS.. (sorry for offtopic, stopping now) |
| 21:35.22 | Lady_Aleena | LtL, I wouldn't know where to start on interpreting strace. |
| 21:35.52 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: you won't know until you try |
| 21:35.58 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: is the problem with Geany that it is not using the theme you want it to, or is it using the them you want but pooly somehow? |
| 21:36.09 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: at the very bottom |
| 21:36.40 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, it is NOT using the theme I want it to use. |
| 21:37.12 | Monodroid | we are really blessed that we have software like debian. without free software we had not a chance to feel free in the it world |
| 21:37.19 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: generally if you keep scrolling past all the noise.. at the bottom you can often find the real issue.. like f.e. a permission issue when trying to open a file or what file it is opening before the issue |
| 21:37.50 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, when it comes to Geany (on the command line) there is no bottom until I use Ctrl-C to stop it. |
| 21:38.00 | sunzero | is away: (automatically dead ) [BX-MsgLog Off] |
| 21:38.00 | sunzero | is idle, automatically dead [bX(l/on p/off)] |
| 21:38.02 | mutante | Monodroid: i assume the "droid" in your nick is not for Android then ?:) |
| 21:38.10 | Monodroid | no :) |
| 21:38.12 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: i meant strace |
| 21:38.35 | Monodroid | handys has no possibility to enforce freedom |
| 21:38.43 | Monodroid | i dont use phones |
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| 21:38.52 | Lady_Aleena | mutante, "strace geany" does not end until I use Ctrl-C to end it, which closes Geany. |
| 21:38.57 | mutante | ah, you are German Monodroid |
| 21:39.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1565] by debhelper |
| 21:39.10 | Monodroid | why? |
| 21:39.20 | mutante | Monodroid: the word "handy" for phone only exists in German |
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| 21:39.46 | Monodroid | ah ok :) english is not my mother language, yes |
| 21:40.02 | Monodroid | im bad in english but i give my best :) |
| 21:40.17 | mutante | Monodroid: oh, it's fine. just profiling you like Google.. just kidding |
| 21:40.31 | Monodroid | hehe |
| 21:40.37 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, Geany depends on libgtk-3-0. I assumed XFCE -> Appearance was GTK3, but I could be wrong. It could be GTK2. I am getting lost in all of these widgets. |
| 21:40.40 | Monodroid | you have not the infrastrucutre of google, its ok :) |
| 21:41.04 | dstaring | Monodroid: "the more userfriendly linux are, the better" <-- That is the exact opposite philosophy from how Linux people think. |
| 21:41.07 | Monodroid | the disaster begins when you combine the infos |
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| 21:41.30 | Monodroid | easy in usability, deep in the possibilities |
| 21:41.35 | tarzeau | Monodroid: one can collect a lot of data and combine them. being not as big as google. not much of infrastructure is needed for that |
| 21:41.39 | noln | Lady_Aleena, try a theme that covers both gtk2 and gtk3, e.g. clearlooks-phenix |
| 21:41.55 | *** join/#debian ewew (~ewew@unaffiliated/ewew) |
| 21:42.04 | Monodroid | its beacause linux is getting easier that more and more ppl use linux for daily works |
| 21:42.18 | Monodroid | even gamers are going on linux |
| 21:42.25 | ewew | Hi. Did someone experience random segfaults on debian buster on amd hw ? |
| 21:42.37 | ewew | It segfaults without taking something down. |
| 21:42.37 | Lady_Aleena | noln, I am using am older theme called Redmond. |
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| 21:42.48 | Monodroid | and this is good. linux should conquer the desktop market |
| 21:42.55 | tarzeau | Monodroid: dream on! |
| 21:43.01 | dvs | heh |
| 21:43.07 | Monodroid | you forget one point |
| 21:43.11 | Monodroid | the human |
| 21:43.11 | dvs | oh this deserves it |
| 21:43.15 | dvs | !pal Monodroid |
| 21:43.15 | dpkg | points at Monodroid and laughs uproariously |
| 21:43.19 | tarzeau | it's not stable enough, and the user interfaces not compatible/consistent with anything else are a nightmare |
| 21:43.25 | Monodroid | the tyranny will go faster and faster in future |
| 21:43.29 | Monodroid | and this wakes ppl up |
| 21:43.32 | tarzeau | maybe replace it with a microkernel, then profit |
| 21:43.44 | tarzeau | it's popular on HPC, but other than that, not much |
| 21:43.51 | koollman | tarzeau: it's ok. now other OS have embraced unstable interfaces too ;) |
| 21:44.03 | tarzeau | koollman: :) true dat |
| 21:44.06 | EdePopede | humans have the talent to ignore threats |
| 21:44.15 | Monodroid | a lot of ppl have changed from windows10 to linux beacause the telemetry and the connection to nsa |
| 21:44.35 | tarzeau | Monodroid: and now they use google chrome with google.com. GREAT! |
| 21:44.39 | *** join/#debian toxync12- (~toxync12@223.72.96.111) |
| 21:44.46 | EdePopede | and then they leave irc and go to facebook |
| 21:44.49 | noln | Lady_Aleena, then your best bet is asking xfce upstream. Ask for a gtk3 redmond update, or find a gtk3 theme similar enough |
| 21:45.08 | Monodroid | i dont think that ppl use chrome os when they are aware of the threats |
| 21:45.21 | tarzeau | Monodroid: i'm talking about the web browser. not the os |
| 21:45.33 | tarzeau | Monodroid: got systemd? people use 8.8.8.8 for their dns |
| 21:45.38 | EdePopede | and after their office now also their chat clients can't go on without cloud |
| 21:45.42 | Monodroid | yeah i know.. but this guys also use windows10 at first place |
| 21:45.44 | tarzeau | how worse can it get? |
| 21:45.56 | tarzeau | and ubuntu is full with spyware (look at the motd thing) |
| 21:46.02 | Lady_Aleena | noln, I am beginning to suspect it is a Geany problem. |
| 21:46.12 | Monodroid | i know tarzeau |
| 21:46.27 | Monodroid | ubuntu is loosing ppl |
| 21:46.45 | Monodroid | beacause of the ads.. |
| 21:46.58 | Monodroid | for me debian is the best linux distro |
| 21:47.06 | naptastic | I know Kung Fu. # cue dramatically choreographed fight scene |
| 21:47.06 | EdePopede | how worse? rely on cloud providers, use foss clients, don't care about server side. trust them if they tell you that their infrastructure is safe and has no backdoor. |
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| 21:47.11 | noln | Lady_Aleena, let the devs sort it out |
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| 21:47.31 | tarzeau | Monodroid: ubuntu has like 25x more users than debian (that are popcon registered) |
| 21:47.53 | naptastic | I'm trying to build my own cloud so I get all the benefits--elasticity and offsite backups mainly--and it's hard. |
| 21:47.58 | Lady_Aleena | The reason I am thinking is might be a Geany problem is because Geany's title bar is taking on the the appearance, but nothing else. |
| 21:48.01 | Monodroid | https://www.distrowatch.com/ |
| 21:48.16 | *** part/#debian lszyba1 (~lszybalsk@12-231-200-67.producersnational.com) |
| 21:48.21 | Monodroid | ;) |
| 21:48.28 | naptastic | (full disclosure: I'm actually an Ubuntu user. But I know where to go for help when dpkg poops itself.) |
| 21:48.33 | *** join/#debian dArK_IcE (~lawl@a79-169-92-77.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 21:48.57 | naptastic | also, somebody @'d me, and it's already gone past the end of the scrollback buffer.... |
| 21:49.06 | Monodroid | the guys at the top are psychopaths |
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| 21:49.33 | Monodroid | dont forget how ian murdock was killed |
| 21:49.37 | noln | Lady_Aleena, the title bar is traditionally rendered by the window manager xfwm4, not by the program |
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| 21:50.15 | Monodroid | we are alle brainwashed |
| 21:50.18 | *** join/#debian vdehors (~vdehors@91-162-62-2.subs.proxad.net) |
| 21:50.24 | Monodroid | we think we live in a democracy :) |
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| 21:51.45 | Monodroid | what the linux devs can do is to develop the best, userfriendly software. and then is the choice of each of them if they want to use and remain free or loosing control over pc |
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| 21:53.57 | tarzeau | Monodroid: we? which country? |
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| 21:54.14 | tarzeau | Monodroid: there's many which are not democracy, but kingdom, or communist |
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| 22:03.32 | Tom-_ | argh, Debian buster doesn't support my very old Nvidia video card |
| 22:03.45 | Tom-_ | downgrading now... |
| 22:03.47 | tarzeau | Tom-_: with the nouveau driver? |
| 22:03.56 | tarzeau | what says lspci|grep VGA? |
| 22:04.00 | Tom-_ | hmmm i didn't try the nouveau driver |
| 22:04.10 | Tom-_ | i'll come on from that computer and tell you in a minute |
| 22:04.19 | Tom-_ | nvidia-detect said nvidia-legacy-304 wasn't supported anymore |
| 22:04.27 | tarzeau | yuck |
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| 22:07.14 | Scriptonaut | hey all, I have a qemu server that keeps on starting back up after I shut it down. I can't figure out what's starting it. There is an entry for it in /etc/init.d/.depend.boot, but other than that, I can't find anything. How do I determine which program is spawning the qemu server? |
| 22:07.19 | Scriptonaut | I know the pid |
| 22:07.42 | abrotman | did you look in /var/log/messages for a hint? |
| 22:08.25 | Scriptonaut | there's stuff in there like: device vnet0 entered promiscuous mode |
| 22:08.53 | abrotman | did you look for the PPID? |
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| 22:09.33 | Scriptonaut | no how do I find ppid? |
| 22:09.50 | abrotman | ps -ef should have it |
| 22:11.29 | Scriptonaut | oh I found the PPID |
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| 22:12.24 | Scriptonaut | hmm, it just says -bash |
| 22:13.03 | abrotman | you did it! |
| 22:13.23 | Scriptonaut | I didn't start the qemu vm with bash though |
| 22:13.27 | Scriptonaut | I keep killing it and it keeps coming back |
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| 22:14.51 | Tom-_ | er i must have joined the wrong network |
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| 22:15.17 | abrotman | Scriptonaut: nothing in the cron logs, or messeages or anything like that? |
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| 22:17.03 | Scriptonaut | abrotman: no, other than that thing about the device entering promiscuous mode |
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| 22:25.12 | sunzero | there is no tomcat in deb10 |
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| 22:26.08 | abrotman | judd: v tomcat9 |
| 22:26.09 | judd | Package: tomcat9 on amd64 -- sid: 9.0.16-3; stretch-backports: 9.0.16-4~bpo9+1; bullseye: 9.0.16-4; buster: 9.0.16-4 |
| 22:26.15 | abrotman | sunzero: is that not sufficient? |
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| 22:27.43 | tagomago | Lady_Aleena: Wut |
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| 22:30.58 | Lady_Aleena | tagomago, Are you asking about my forgetfulness of vi? |
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| 22:38.58 | tagomago | yes, vi vi vi the number of the beast |
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| 22:40.19 | Lady_Aleena | tagomago, I don't use the command line for much more than installing software, the occasional grep, and fixing things that can only be fixed on the commnad line. |
| 22:41.33 | Lady_Aleena | Everything else is through the DE. |
| 22:41.59 | nyaomi | is it safe to upgrade straight from 8.x to 10.0.0? |
| 22:42.03 | annadane | no |
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| 22:42.48 | nyaomi | aw |
| 22:42.50 | nyaomi | thanks |
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| 22:46.21 | jhutchins | nyaomi: The upgrade scripts can only acomodate the previous version. |
| 22:47.21 | nyaomi | yeah, that makes sense |
| 22:47.25 | nyaomi | upgrading to 9 at the moment |
| 22:47.27 | nyaomi | thanks |
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| 23:27.22 | jml2 | nyaomi, that's a bummer when you wait for upgrading.. |
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| 23:28.04 | nyaomi | yeah, it's not a very important system so i've just been letting it sit on oldstable, but i heard 10 was out so i figured it was time to get on with it |
| 23:28.24 | dvs | not a direct upgrade I hope |
| 23:28.31 | dvs | 8 -> 10 |
| 23:28.33 | abrotman | he's already been warned |
| 23:28.45 | dvs | oh? It is? Pity. |
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| 23:29.14 | abrotman | is tempted to spin up a VM to try it |
| 23:30.12 | jml2 | i would consult what someone else consulted, better to do so in stages, 8->9->10 ... it may be possible/safe within 2 versions though |
| 23:30.43 | abrotman | yes, I agree, but what's life without a little adventure :) |
| 23:30.54 | dvs | mine! |
| 23:32.07 | jml2 | a test in VM is a good safety guard for double checking.. |
| 23:32.28 | jml2 | i'd say do that too, nothing beats testing in a VM in a good fashion setup. |
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| 23:59.44 | JerryS | I'm having an environment problem. Just upgraded a VM to Buster. Now my environment has over 1300 lines of shell code like the code was ust copied in instead of being interpreted. |
