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| 00:00.14 | Toba | I do'nt know that it will help for the jb-weld part |
| 00:00.30 | Toba | it's a thick putty so easy to control where it goes without it |
| 00:00.50 | kreyren | did you heat it up by any chance? or just put it in as is? |
| 00:01.00 | Toba | I guess there is also a very liquidy jb-weld kind, but i recommend the putty you cut a bit off the end of the stick and then squish it together with your fingers |
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| 00:01.07 | Toba | the kind I used was not a liquid |
| 00:01.12 | kreyren | ah i see |
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| 00:01.24 | Toba | and it does get warmed up just by your fingers as you mix it |
| 00:01.29 | kreyren | i should do some experiments for both probably |
| 00:01.33 | Toba | another tip wear gloves for that i didn't and i wish i did |
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| 00:01.43 | kreyren | lol |
| 00:01.46 | Toba | the epoxy cures quick, including in your cuticles |
| 00:02.12 | kreyren | i wanted to take those 30 mins and make a some kind of mold for it |
| 00:02.28 | kreyren | and depressurize it so that it woudn't have air bubbles in |
| 00:02.42 | Toba | if some sanding damage to the part of the case that isn't broken is a feature not a bug for you |
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| 00:02.59 | Toba | I would just stick it in there and if a little sticks out sand it off after it gets hardened |
| 00:03.20 | Toba | I still feel like you're talking about a kind that is a liquid and I'm talking about the kind that is a stiff putty to start with |
| 00:03.28 | Toba | so I'm not really sure what to tell you |
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| 00:04.01 | Toba | I think a liquid when you're patching a computer with circuits inside is a bad idea, at least without knowing the details of what exactly you're patching with what |
| 00:04.21 | kreyren | yep i was talking about liquid, but i'm not sure what to use yet.. i will probably use liquid for the parts for which i can make a mold and putty for these where i miss lots of material alike https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/5Lkfnka0zMGdRTxpxvrB7aHZH_sFy7v860APLtC9bHE/https/i.imgur.com/93Xr01hh.jpg?width=575&height=432 |
| 00:04.27 | Toba | https://www.homedepot.com/p/J-B-Weld-2-oz-SteelStik-Steel-Reinforced-Epoxy-Putty-Stick-Case-of-6-8267H-6/305280481 |
| 00:04.31 | Toba | ^ this worked great |
| 00:04.43 | kreyren | i will take the components out before it not sure if painters tape will hold it tho |
| 00:04.56 | Toba | oh wow you're straight up missing big pieces |
| 00:05.01 | kreyren | > You don't have permission to access.. xD gdpr strikes again |
| 00:05.10 | Toba | I just replaced a corner and patched some small divots and broken off bits |
| 00:05.21 | Toba | lol |
| 00:05.28 | Toba | just google for jb weld steelstik |
| 00:05.32 | kreyren | Toba, yep i was missing like whole left part but i super glue pieces that fit together so that i could jb-weld it later |
| 00:05.45 | Toba | ha yes i know the feeling |
| 00:05.46 | kreyren | and standoffs ware also broken, but superglue should be enough for that |
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| 00:05.53 | Toba | like stitches before the wound is truly healed |
| 00:06.15 | Toba | this is a bold project, good luck - I think your approach is sound |
| 00:06.32 | Toba | "we can rebuild him.. better.. faster.. stronger.." |
| 00:06.35 | kreyren | yep thanks you helped a lot actually i needed sanity check for that approach :D |
| 00:06.48 | Toba | :] |
| 00:07.02 | kreyren | worst case scenario rebuilt yep.. but i need to find boardview for it |
| 00:07.14 | Toba | I don't understand what you mean by boardview |
| 00:07.44 | kreyren | like http://openboardview.org/ so that i see what components are on the board and how they work |
| 00:07.51 | kreyren | without using x-ray |
| 00:07.56 | Toba | oh i see |
| 00:08.08 | kreyren | for that chipped mobo part |
| 00:08.14 | kreyren | in case i can't bridge it |
| 00:08.18 | Toba | so you can guess how bad it might be |
| 00:08.29 | Toba | if anythign important was broken? |
| 00:08.37 | kreyren | like it's non-fatal and i think it's just power line so it should be ok |
| 00:08.39 | Toba | and if it is, how you can route around with patch wire? |
| 00:08.48 | Toba | right and if any shorts were created |
| 00:09.01 | kreyren | you dont usually unless you test it |
| 00:09.12 | kreyren | but some random sacrificial resistor should pick that up |
| 00:09.39 | kreyren | and then you just spray it with a compressed air to see the short or use thermal camera |
| 00:09.41 | Toba | sacrificial resistor as in it releases the magic smoke as a cheap fuse? |
| 00:10.09 | kreyren | yep since it should be arranged in away to fail-safe |
| 00:10.11 | Toba | how would compressed air help? |
| 00:10.46 | kreyren | Toba, https://youtu.be/AOALg_rDIZk?t=98 shorted component gets really hot so you can see where it is |
| 00:10.58 | kreyren | sometimes you can find it by feel too.. i fixed few GPUs that way xD |
| 00:11.10 | Toba | whoa!! |
| 00:11.20 | Toba | well it's time for me to step away... stay frosty |
| 00:11.28 | kreyren | ok u2 :D |
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| 00:16.54 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 00:16.56 | kingsley | Which package, if any, reveals the unicodes of characters in PDF files? |
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| 00:18.19 | SerajewelKS | hmm, why is the default /media/cdrom0 suddenly being mounted noexec after the buster upgrade? the fstab doesn't specify noexec. |
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| 01:08.22 | Beggar | I am starting go get kind of mentally impaired here with this system. O.O |
| 01:09.29 | Beggar | I really do not want to reinstall. But I can not live without microphone. Not being able to record audio is too much to me to bear. |
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| 01:11.47 | GenTooMan | I am mostly confused at this time. |
| 01:12.10 | GenTooMan | beggar you broke your system? :D |
| 01:13.45 | Beggar | I had an working system... then I upgraded to Buster. Then I had some trouble but I could solve msot of it, but then... yesterday morning I was in need to use bluetooth and isntalled blueman and bluez, and they had pulseaudio as dependency. I used the bluetooth adn after using I removed pulseaudio and blueman and bluez. And at this point my microfone stopped working. |
| 01:15.31 | Beggar | I will reisntall the system eventually, I was using it here since squeeze. and I am having trouble with some stuff too that I would like to fix. But I prefer to wait until Buster get more upgrades, then I can reinstall si clean here. |
| 01:17.11 | aaro | maybe just reinstall what you uninstalled |
| 01:18.15 | aaro | or run alsamixer and F6 to select sound card |
| 01:18.20 | Beggar | aaro I tried it already. I even isntalled pulseaudio (I do not use pulseaudio ) |
| 01:18.39 | friendlyGoat | there was a power outage, im running Debian Stretch on another computer and after the power outage i realized the computer no longer could connect to the internet. it uses ethernet if that matters at all. when i try to run sudo apt-get update this is what shows up |
| 01:18.39 | friendlyGoat | https://pastebin.com/cYQXh6BW |
| 01:18.39 | friendlyGoat | i dont know how to fix it, if you need more info i can give it. |
| 01:18.46 | Beggar | All controllers are all right, the correct soundcard is being used adn all |
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| 01:19.41 | aaro | what about the mic volume, sometimes these details are the guilty ones |
| 01:20.07 | Beggar | friendlyGoat, "ip a" returns an ethernet interface as active? |
| 01:20.30 | Beggar | aaro, I checked them all many times. |
| 01:20.42 | Beggar | If I unmute the mic I can hear it. |
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| 01:21.11 | Beggar | but it doe snot work on audacity, jack, etc |
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| 01:21.22 | friendlyGoat | ip a returned this https://pastebin.com/vXVgZkxu |
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| 01:22.04 | Beggar | so you are connected to internet and working correctly, right? |
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| 01:24.47 | Beggar | as per your pasted output, the interface enp1s8 is connected (probably to a router) to the network. |
| 01:25.13 | Beggar | is this connection working to other devices? |
| 01:25.52 | Beggar | I am kind of asleep so ignore my worse than usually broken english.. |
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| 01:28.33 | Beggar | you can try ifdown enp1s8 and then ifup enp1s8 and then dhclient enp1s8. but probably will need an "killall dhclient" and "killall networkmanager" before that. This maybe can give you soem useful info. also, you said it was an poweroutage, maybe the problem is on the network devices not in the computer. That is all I can say about it right now. |
| 01:28.34 | RisingTide | Hey I tried sending mail with exim4 and I get an error |
| 01:28.39 | Beggar | friendlyGoat, |
| 01:28.40 | RisingTide | https://pastebin.com/NpcmEMTp |
| 01:28.58 | RisingTide | what config file is this coming from |
| 01:29.11 | friendlyGoat | pardon didnt see this im gonna read up |
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| 01:29.35 | RisingTide | it should be using taellinglin@gmail.com not taellinglin@risngtide.international |
| 01:29.47 | RisingTide | trying to set it up with gmail smtp |
| 01:30.25 | RisingTide | I did everything here: https://www.vultr.com/docs/setup-exim-to-send-email-using-gmail-in-debian |
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| 01:32.48 | friendlyGoat | didnt work unfortunately |
| 01:34.38 | RisingTide | https://pastebin.com/zf4hR0ph |
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| 01:44.29 | Beggar | I tried dpkg-reconfigure libasound2 but is says libasoudn2 is not installed. |
| 01:44.37 | Beggar | But it SI isntalled |
| 01:44.41 | Beggar | IS* |
| 01:44.57 | somiaj | did you spell the package name corerctly (in your error here you did not) |
| 01:45.46 | Beggar | well if I do apt-get remove libasound2 it states that can be done |
| 01:46.00 | Beggar | Yes, I doublechecked the name |
| 01:46.49 | somiaj | Beggar: did you read the whole error message that was produced |
| 01:47.09 | Beggar | i am trying to recreate the alsa configuration here. I do not know it libasound is the right package. I do not know what package creates /etc/alsa and /usr/alsa |
| 01:47.23 | Beggar | It is trasnalted... but... let me try |
| 01:48.19 | somiaj | anyways, I get a message that also says that the package is valid but it cannot determine the match, this is due to using multiarch here |
| 01:48.24 | somiaj | so dpkg-reconfigure libasound2:amd64 |
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| 01:48.52 | somiaj | but that won't do much, and maybe you have ran into this |
| 01:48.54 | somiaj | !confmiss |
| 01:48.54 | dpkg | You have to especially tell the packaging system to reinstall config files because when they are gone, it is assumed that you want them to stay deleted. "aptitude -o DPkg::Options::='--force-confmiss' reinstall $packagename" will restore them (man dpkg for details). If the package uses <ucf> for config file management, ask me about <ucf confmiss>. |
| 01:49.04 | Beggar | dpkg_query error: --status needs a n valid name for package but "libasound2" is not. ambiguous package name "libasound2" with more than one stanza installed. |
| 01:49.04 | friendlyGoat | oh i rebooted and what you said to do worked! i think its fixed now thank you |
| 01:49.12 | Beggar | libasound2 is not installed. |
| 01:50.06 | Beggar | friendlyGoat, I still think the poweroutage jammed the network, and not the system. |
| 01:51.01 | somiaj | it says more lines than that to me |
| 01:52.04 | Beggar | somiaj, thank you for point it out. I was not awae that using multiarch lib would imply needing to specify arch when dealingk with reconfigure. |
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| 01:53.21 | somiaj | it is because you have gtwo it cn choose from |
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| 02:04.46 | Beggar | I moved /usr/share/alsa to somewhere elase adn tried the reconfigure on libasound and it did not regenerated it. I also tried using the confmiss and nothing... then I checked debian pakckage site and I found out that the correct apckage is libasound2-data |
| 02:04.50 | Beggar | I will try ti now u.u |
| 02:04.54 | Beggar | it* |
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| 02:06.45 | Beggar | yes it regenerated with confmiss |
| 02:06.48 | somiaj | um, /usr/share/alsa is not a config file and won't be treated as such. |
| 02:06.59 | somiaj | but yes if you move/delete config files, you need to reinstall with confmiss option |
| 02:07.02 | Beggar | I will try to reboot the system and chec if it changes anything |
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| 02:12.37 | Beggar | no changes T.T |
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| 02:24.53 | CrazedPanda | Hi. Im using Openvpn client from shell in Buster. Same config files that are working fine on another distro. Keeps timing out for inactivity. Tried keepalive parameters 10 60, and 10 120 which usually works. Neither help. Anything specific to Debian that I should be doing? Ive already installed Openresolv. |
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| 02:30.25 | SerajewelKS | CrazedPanda: does the connection work at all, e.g. can you ping over it before it times out? |
| 02:30.37 | Beggar | I found this https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/473694/pulseaudio-not-recognizing-intel-hda-after-upgrading-to-debian-testing-buster/529281 to be interesting |
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| 02:30.55 | Beggar | So I am not the only one haivng problem with this on buster. |
| 02:31.24 | th_ | tried 10 netinst from multibootusb and i get "incorrect cd-rom detected" |
| 02:31.29 | Beggar | But my case is different. Everything works ok, I mean I can playback stuff, but I can not record. |
| 02:31.58 | CrazedPanda | yes, connection works fine. But if I walk away for a while, it will eventually timout |
| 02:32.04 | Beggar | Now I am unsure if reinstalling will ever solve this issue |
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| 02:32.56 | SerajewelKS | CrazedPanda: it might be worth running a network capture. when you say that it's "working fine on another distro," where is that other distro box? is it on the same network segment, or is it behind a different router? |
| 02:33.11 | somiaj | th_: the debian installer sometimes has trouble with multiboot setups due to its hybrid nature. |
| 02:33.16 | SerajewelKS | differing network conditions could be responsible |
| 02:33.39 | swift110 | sup guys |
| 02:34.26 | SerajewelKS | CrazedPanda: note that keepalive is a _server_ directive; using it on a client will not have any effect |
| 02:34.37 | CrazedPanda | SerajewelKS : Same exact network and access point. Both boxes side by side. |
| 02:34.41 | SerajewelKS | hmm |
| 02:34.56 | SerajewelKS | (side note, i've had much better luck with tinc than openvpn) |
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| 02:35.56 | Beggar | waves to swift110 |
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| 02:36.26 | SerajewelKS | CrazedPanda: my only suggestion at this point is network capture, and try to run openvpn at a higher verbosity level and see if those give you any clues |
| 02:36.46 | SerajewelKS | i've always found openvpn to be a bit annoying in that when it works, it's fine, but when it doesn't, it doesn't really try to help you figure out the problem |
| 02:36.58 | swift110 | how are you beggar |
| 02:38.41 | Beggar | sitting and you? swift110 |
| 02:39.02 | swift110 | Beggar, same actually |
| 02:39.16 | Beggar | haha |
| 02:41.09 | CrazedPanda | SerajewelKS : Yea Ive seen that keepalive is used mostly for servers, but it is exactly what is keeping my other client connection stable. If I remove it, it times out. OK thank you, Ill try a net capture. Ive been wanting to try tinc. I may have to now :) |
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| 02:41.29 | Lady_Aleena | Hello. I would like 2 packages (libgoocanvas3 and python-pygoocanvas) that are in jessie, stretch, and sid but not buster. What would be the best/easiest way to get those packages? |
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| 02:42.00 | SerajewelKS | CrazedPanda: tinc makes a lot of stuff easier, including multi-client servers (you don't need a CA or certs) |
| 02:42.22 | SerajewelKS | however, the server needs to know each client's pubkey in order to authenticate clients |
| 02:42.32 | SerajewelKS | so the CA approach makes sense if you have thousands of clients |
| 02:42.36 | SerajewelKS | which i never do :) |
| 02:42.55 | SerajewelKS | so it always felt like so much infrastructure so i can have three VPN clients |
| 02:43.01 | uRock | Lady_Aleena, https://pkgs.org/download/libgoocanvas3 |
| 02:43.16 | somiaj | ,v gir1.2-goocanvas-2.0 |
| 02:43.18 | judd | Package: gir1.2-goocanvas-2.0 on amd64 -- stretch: 2.0.2-2; bullseye: 2.0.4-1; buster: 2.0.4-1; sid: 2.0.4-1 |
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| 02:43.28 | somiaj | Lady_Aleena: ^^ https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=879053 |
| 02:43.29 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/879053 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: pygoocanvas -- RoQA; unmaintained, obsolete»; severity: normal; opened: 2017-10-18; last modified: 2018-03-13. |
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| 02:43.42 | somiaj | Lady_Aleena: you should use the new gir bindings (not the old ones) |
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| 02:44.15 | Lady_Aleena | somiaj, and that covers both packages I mentioned? |
| 02:44.35 | somiaj | It will probably use the updated lib (not sure on name) |
| 02:45.16 | somiaj | the newer version of the lib is called libgoocanvas-2.0-8 |
| 02:45.18 | somiaj | the newer version of the lib is called libgoocanvas-2.0-9 |
| 02:45.21 | uRock | https://pkgs.org/download/python-pygoocanvas |
| 02:45.32 | uRock | Lady_Aleena, https://pkgs.org/download/python-pygoocanvas |
| 02:45.58 | SerajewelKS | CrazedPanda: no joke, it used to be easier to run three openvpns and bridge them together |
| 02:46.01 | somiaj | Anyways, it appears the api has updated, and I would use the new versions avaialble in buster, which is gir1.2-goocanvas-2.0 -- this means the functions/code that uses it will possibly need updated, but I think it is worth updating. |
| 02:46.09 | SerajewelKS | than fiddle around with the certificate crap |
| 02:46.35 | jmcnaught | uRock: we don't encourage people to download packages from random sources here |
| 02:46.36 | Lady_Aleena | somiaj, I will give it a try and see if it works. |
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| 02:50.11 | CrazedPanda | SerajewelKS : hmm interesting. Ill def give it a try, thanks much. Bcus I refuse to resort to networkmanager-openvpn :) |
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| 02:51.04 | zhangj | Hello everyone, I have a question to ask you. I want to be a DM , but I don't know how to contribute to Debian. |
| 02:52.04 | somiaj | https://www.debian.org/intro/help |
| 02:52.46 | somiaj | also maybe checkout https://mentors.debian.net/ if you want to try to build and matain a package. |
| 02:54.47 | Lady_Aleena | somiaj, that one package worked, thank you. |
| 02:55.37 | zhangj | @somiaj thank you very much |
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| 02:58.12 | Beggar | thank you everyone for the pointings and all the help. I will sleep now and try to solve it tomorrow. I ended up reconfiguring almsot all libasound related stuff by now adn nothing changed. |
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| 02:59.15 | Beggar | give a mug full of golden coins to somiaj and varnishes |
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| 03:14.39 | doubletwist | I guess they'll be very shiny coins. |
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| 03:23.44 | rant | washing then decreases their value |
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| 03:27.05 | uRock | doesn't consider pkgs.org to be "random". Anywho, the package management system should show when a new package subxtitutes another. |
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| 04:11.03 | rant | I've been experiencing scroll event failure in chromium for months now both on stretch and now on buster.. it seems to happen randomly and doesnt seem to matter what site is loaded, it occurs WHILE scrolling suddenly scrolling stops and will no longer work on that tab unless I refresh. I dont have any thoughts as to cause, or how to go about troubleshooting it.. its clearly not hardware as scrolling still |
| 04:11.10 | rant | works in other tabs and apps |
| 04:11.36 | epony | does it happen with PGDN |
| 04:11.46 | epony | ? |
| 04:11.48 | rant | its super annoying but I've avoided reporting it cause I dont know how to reproduce it for it to be of any use |
| 04:12.00 | rant | no, it only happens with a mouse or other such device |
| 04:12.07 | rant | I typically use my trackpoint to scroll |
| 04:12.23 | rant | however I did plug in a USB mouse to verify it wouldnt scroll with that either when it occurs |
| 04:13.05 | epony | Does it happen in other programs? |
| 04:13.48 | rant | no, and when it occurs, its always while actively scrolling it happens, it affects ALL pointing devices which send scroll events, only the tab on which it occurs, and the scrollbars and arrows or pgup/dn still work |
| 04:14.00 | rant | and a refresh of the page always resolves it |
| 04:14.45 | rant | at first I thought it was a js thing.. but today it happened on wikipedia which it never happened there before so.. |
| 04:15.05 | rant | I'm not really sure its due to any script on the page as it doesnt seem to matter which page is loaded |
| 04:15.58 | epony | Maybe you should report this to chrome(ium) dev support.. |
| 04:16.37 | chalcedony | it would seem good to talk to them about it |
| 04:16.44 | rant | I'm not familiar with their systems.. I only know debians.. and I know without routinely being able to reproduce the issue resolution is unlikely |
| 04:17.45 | chalcedony | rant, it maybe something they already know how to fix, or something that other people said the same thing about, but at least they should know. |
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| 04:18.09 | chalcedony | people shrug and think "it's just me, my old box, overheating, too many windows.." |
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| 04:19.13 | epony | rant@ at least you'll get an idea if the bug is new or others have reported it and if there is a fix or a temp workaround |
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| 04:20.08 | rant | yeah.. well I can workaround it by refreshing the page.. its just annoying |
| 04:20.30 | rant | what I need, if I can get hold of people savvy with this browser, is for someone to tell me how to get more info |
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| 04:21.01 | rant | cause it just happened before I started bitching about it and it just happened again in one of my open tabs.. I can get it to do it.. and I'd like to gather more info while its acting up |
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| 04:21.53 | epony | https://www.google.com/search?q=chrome+bug+mouse+scroll+stops+working+until+reload |
| 04:22.08 | rant | all the troubleshooting I know how to do would/should be irrelevant.. attaching xev to the window wont help, cause I know its getting the events.. it works on all the other open tabs right now |
| 04:22.23 | epony | check result $1 |
| 04:22.30 | chalcedony | <PROTECTED> |
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| 04:24.39 | chalcedony | epony, (or anyone) is there a book or website you'd recommend for someone setting up a new computer to run debian? |
| 04:25.17 | epony | chalcedony, I'd check the old guides on tldp or ~esr guides (outdated both but still useful) |
| 04:26.31 | epony | chalcedony, and of course, the Debian installation guide.. do you need hardware suggestions? |
| 04:27.01 | chalcedony | what i'm getting says it's good for ubuntu. that ought to mean debian too? |
| 04:27.46 | epony | are you on a laptop purchase site? |
| 04:28.11 | chalcedony | getting hardware for a new desktop |
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| 04:28.34 | epony | and do you have a short listed doc on the spec or can you have it on a paste site? |
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| 04:29.01 | chalcedony | i know which processor, hubby got the motherboard. |
| 04:30.05 | chalcedony | https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-Processor-Wraith-Cooler/dp/B07B428V2L/ref=pd_cp_147_1?pd_rd_w=P0DEx&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=MMHE2ZTE4YQGYEV4RWT1&pd_rd_r=12eaa4c2-cd47-4cf6-84e4-1fee5a031149&pd_rd_wg=XArNM&pd_rd_i=B07B428V2L&psc=1&refRID=MMHE2ZTE4YQGYEV4RWT1 |
| 04:30.06 | epony | probably would work with Debian if it works with Ubuntu |
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| 04:32.54 | epony | The problems are sometimes with the newest CPUs that have integrated graphics and some of the newest hottest gaming motherboards and video cards with Windows only drivers.. |
| 04:33.12 | chalcedony | yes |
| 04:33.26 | chalcedony | but this one does say it supports Ubuntu .. so it can't be windows only |
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| 04:35.01 | chalcedony | and yes i'm worried about graphics and won't know till the parts get here |
| 04:36.16 | epony | Let's hear from others in the channel too. |
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| 04:38.10 | epony | Disregard the old guides suggestion, it was for picking your custom hardware part by part (and those are predating the kernel modesetting for graphics and also integrated GPUs in the CPU). |
| 04:38.30 | chalcedony | ahh |
| 04:38.49 | chalcedony | parts were supposed to come friday.. still waiting |
| 04:38.53 | epony | Check specific info on Debian's web site for Ryzen models KMS support. |
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| 04:39.02 | chalcedony | ah |
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| 05:09.33 | aypea[1] | hey. trying to pin iptables to buster-backports but am failing. if I have "Package: iptables" it fails but "Package: *" works. What am I missing here? |
| 05:15.31 | chalcedony | epony i'm not getting anything searching for Ryzen on the debian.org page? |
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| 05:21.58 | epony | chalcedony, well, there are details how to setup amdgpu driver, the firmware etc, but I did not find a list of models "known-to-work" so.. |
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| 05:25.33 | chalcedony | epony you know more than me |
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| 05:29.18 | aypea[1] | anyone able to tell me the error I'm making here? https://pastebin.com/QzYTs7rk try as I might an upgrade is not picking it up. |
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| 05:31.55 | aypea[1] | oh gah. I have to list every dep with it :( |
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| 05:41.00 | ealfonso | hi. my thinkpad x1 carbon fingerprint reader does not appear to be recognized by debian (sudo fprintd-enroll => list_devices failed: No devices available). is there a good way to troubleshoot this, or is this a known problem? |
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| 05:59.20 | Tom-_ | ealfonso, no idea, check the thinkwiki to make sure it's supported :) |
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| 06:18.41 | rotworm | <PROTECTED> |
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| 06:19.28 | rotworm | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:19.53 | Haohmaru | rotworm we all saw that |
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| 06:20.11 | rotworm | yeah, i feel kinda dumb |
| 06:20.25 | rotworm | where r u from |
| 06:20.35 | Haohmaru | next time, write such commands in the "status" window or at least in a query window with yourself or nickserv |
| 06:20.47 | Haohmaru | then accidents like that won't end up seen by others |
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| 06:21.14 | rotworm | thnx |
| 06:21.26 | rudi_s | And a longer password might be nice. |
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| 06:22.26 | Haohmaru | this one was longer than hunter2, so, it's gud IMO |
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| 06:27.10 | rudi_s | ... |
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| 07:35.35 | leni536 | Hi, what's the reason that the version of libglib2.0-0 is behind on some archs? |
| 07:36.11 | leni536 | Not that it's too important, it just kept several packages back on my amd64 Debian sid. |
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| 07:47.56 | at0m | leni536: for sid, #debian-next on OFTC |
| 07:48.12 | leni536 | ok, thanks |
| 07:48.18 | rant | leni536: check tracker.debian.org perhaps |
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| 07:51.27 | Zen-Follower | is the guy around, who stated yesterday, that Picasso GPU's are supported by the amdgpu driver? |
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| 07:53.57 | dionysus69 | hey folks |
| 07:54.21 | rant | dpkg, logs? |
| 07:54.22 | dpkg | Logs are what you should always check when you have a problem, they live in /var/log/ . For #debian logs, ask me about <irclog>. |
| 07:54.30 | rant | dpkg, irclog |
| 07:54.30 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, irclog is #debian on <freenode> is logged at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23debian/ , #debian on <OFTC> is logged at http://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/ |
| 07:54.35 | dionysus69 | ok I think I have asked this before but still dealing with this problem, my system has 32gb ram but with only 10 occupied, I had 4gb of swap used |
| 07:54.43 | rant | Zen-Follower: ^ knock yourself out |
| 07:54.53 | dionysus69 | can I somehow tell system not to use swap if ram is not full? |
| 07:55.32 | Haohmaru | there was some trick about this |
| 07:55.37 | Haohmaru | like a one-time trick |
| 07:55.53 | ayekat | you can set swappiness, but that's more of an indicator, and the kernel may still choose to ignore it, I think |
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| 07:56.05 | rant | dpkg, swappiness |
| 07:56.05 | dpkg | A number of Linux kernel developers debated "swappiness" - exploring when an application should or should not be swapped out, versus reclaiming memory from the cache. http://kerneltrap.org/node/3000 http://kerneltrap.org/node/3202 http://kerneltrap.org/node/3660 |
| 07:56.26 | ayekat | you can also just disable swap, which would be a hard-disable - but then what would be the point of having a swap in the first place |
| 07:56.36 | dionysus69 | yea I know caching is a thing, but I dont get what's the point of swapping if memory is available |
| 07:57.01 | dionysus69 | there are certain applications who do swap on purpose not to waste ram |
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| 07:57.17 | ratrace | dionysus69: it's simple, by moving unused pages to disk, the system has even more ram available for bursty activity |
| 07:57.24 | dionysus69 | but for example, my KDE is lagging allot, this indicates that even the DE components are in swap |
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| 07:57.27 | rant | likely because something has not been used and the kernel has determined that it would gain more performance by swapping that out and allowing for more cache or such |
| 07:57.54 | dionysus69 | ah ok, maybe because I left pc running over the weekend |
| 07:57.57 | dionysus69 | 3 days in fact |
| 07:57.58 | ayekat | I don't think userspace applications get to decide whether they will be swapped out |
| 07:57.58 | Haohmaru | *cough* *cough* kde sux *cough* |
| 07:58.09 | Zen-Follower | if you have a ssd or nvme and enough RAM, you can go without a swap partition |
| 07:58.30 | rant | dionysus69: I think your choice of programs is the issue.. I only have 8GB ram and I never seem to use more than half of it and haven't swapped since I got this machine |
| 07:58.33 | ratrace | wonders how having ssd or nvme counts in this equation |
| 07:58.36 | ayekat | why is ssd/nvme relevant for not having swap |
| 07:58.41 | dionysus69 | I do have swap partition but on HDD, not on SSD, even though I have SSD, didnt think about it when I was partitioning |
| 07:59.00 | Zen-Follower | because it wears them down |
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| 07:59.11 | ratrace | nah that's a myth |
| 07:59.32 | ayekat | Zen-Follower: no, how is having an SSD a condition for being able to remove the swap partition? |
| 07:59.33 | dionysus69 | HDD has to be worn even more then |
| 07:59.46 | ratrace | it used to be true in the very early days with ssd lifetimes being much much shorter anyway |
| 07:59.46 | ayekat | there's a logic knot in there - also yeah, SSD wearout is a thing from the past |
| 08:00.03 | Haohmaru | is it? |
| 08:00.05 | ratrace | these days ssd can happily survive writing of hundreds of TB of data |
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| 08:00.23 | ayekat | it'll more likely die because of something else than having its maximum number of writes reached |
| 08:00.23 | Zen-Follower | the limit of write-operation of HDDs is still much higher |
| 08:00.47 | ratrace | https://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead/ |
| 08:01.01 | ratrace | and the article is 4 years old now, so... |
| 08:02.09 | dionysus69 | and what DE do you use, if KDE 'sux' |
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| 08:02.16 | dionysus69 | just curious ^.^ |
| 08:02.26 | ratrace | doesn't use any de, but i3-wm |
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| 08:02.44 | Haohmaru | lxde |
| 08:02.56 | Haohmaru | with some things from xfce |
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| 08:03.25 | dionysus69 | both sound like a dirty hack :D |
| 08:03.50 | Haohmaru | kde eats like 1GB just after you log into the desktop |
| 08:04.10 | Haohmaru | and it's full of stupid animations and crap, and the menu is aweful |
| 08:04.41 | dionysus69 | you mean start menu? |
| 08:04.44 | ratrace | after it swapstormed just to show the login screen :) j/k haven't used kde since.... 4.x |
| 08:04.46 | Haohmaru | yes |
| 08:04.48 | Zen-Follower | thanks for the insight, ratrace ^^ |
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| 08:05.17 | ratrace | Zen-Follower: welcome |
| 08:05.17 | Haohmaru | maybe if you have a gaming-grade machine, you'd run kde just fine |
| 08:05.18 | dionysus69 | how is aweful, it's just a regular start menu :D |
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| 08:05.24 | dionysus69 | you type it searches |
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| 08:05.33 | Haohmaru | i don't wanna type stuff |
| 08:05.36 | dionysus69 | which is not the case on either lxde or xfce |
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| 08:05.47 | Haohmaru | if i was gonna type stuff i wouldn't be opening the menu |
| 08:05.59 | dionysus69 | it has favorites tab too |
| 08:06.05 | Haohmaru | pls, no |
| 08:06.12 | dionysus69 | :D |
| 08:06.16 | Haohmaru | i can alt+f2 on lxde |
| 08:06.17 | Zen-Follower | haha, the wm-wars have resurfaced :D |
| 08:06.41 | dionysus69 | alt f2 works here too |
| 08:07.19 | dionysus69 | session managment is also handy, to save open apps |
| 08:07.32 | Haohmaru | hell no |
| 08:08.03 | Haohmaru | the default settings of kde disgust me |
| 08:08.17 | leni536 | > the default settings |
| 08:08.23 | dionysus69 | I have configured lots of things |
| 08:08.30 | leni536 | meanwhile you use a hacked together xfce and lxde combo |
| 08:08.36 | Haohmaru | yeah |
| 08:09.02 | leni536 | so I guess the defaults of both lxde and xfce are not good enough |
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| 08:09.25 | Haohmaru | lxde doesn't have dumb animations, the menu is eggcelent |
| 08:09.27 | dionysus69 | kde is great because even a housewife with knowledge of english can configure what anything does |
| 08:10.10 | dionysus69 | I am pretty sure you can turn off all animations on kde, but somehow for some reason, they dont annoy me |
| 08:10.15 | Zen-Follower | I guess in the end it all comes down to choose one wm-library (GTK/QT) and stay clear of the other, which most people fail, 'cos there's at least one program from "the other side" they miss on their own so one ends up installing both libraries and both eat their share of hdd-space and ram |
| 08:10.27 | Haohmaru | i use a panel from xfce, cuz it has fancier clock and cpu/ram meters, i still use the lxde panel for the actual start menu |
| 08:10.51 | Ticho | yes, yes, but which desktop environment can pee the farthest? |
| 08:10.59 | Ticho | isn't it what this argument is all about? |
| 08:11.07 | dionysus69 | hahaha |
| 08:11.21 | Ticho | just pick the environment you like, use it, and shut up about it |
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| 08:12.03 | Zen-Follower | Ticho, nah, not just farthest but while doing so, who does it most gracefully :D |
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| 08:12.39 | rant | dionysus69: fwiw: https://i.imgur.com/m3ENCr2.png thats with Buster running chromium, 5 tabs of js hungry sites, netflix in buster's firefox, vlc playing video, xfinity stream in a windows firefox under crossover, 24 large images open in gimp, kdenlive with a large video clip imported.. and I'm still under 4gb ram usage and no swap |
| 08:13.34 | Zen-Follower | but that's a matter of taste and preference, so it's a neverending pointless debate ppl bring up, just because they like arguing ^^ |
| 08:14.12 | rant | thats using the machine more than I'd ever realistically be using it.. and I'm still not putting a dent in my memory |
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| 08:14.51 | Ticho | no, the root cause is people over-identifying with the labels or brands they use, so they take it as a personal insult if someone says something bad about the label/brand |
| 08:15.13 | Zen-Follower | if you want to bring your system to high ram usage, you need to do some video-editing, I guess |
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| 08:16.07 | rant | which is why I had 3 different browsers, wine/crossover, video and image editors, etc open to demonstrate :P |
| 08:16.13 | Zen-Follower | Ticho, true, it's the same issue you know from religions |
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| 08:16.36 | dionysus69 | rant: I dont use chrome/ium |
| 08:16.37 | rant | I could've loaded audio into audacity, been running ffmpeg trasncoders.. etc and still not have gotten much higher in usage |
| 08:16.57 | ratrace | rant: now do the same in gnome. i dare ya :) |
| 08:17.10 | Zen-Follower | wonders, if he's ever gonna run out of his 14G of RAM |
| 08:17.17 | rant | dionysus69: yes, well as I said your choice of programs are probably the problem.. I had 3 different browsers running in that screenshot |
| 08:17.27 | rant | and that windows browser is ancient.. like FF 45 or something |
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| 08:17.34 | Zen-Follower | oh, there's an easier way... just bring up some VMs ^^ |
| 08:18.03 | rant | not even with VMs have I gotten much over 4GB usage.. I've at times ran 2 and 3 VMs on here |
| 08:18.04 | dionysus69 | nowadays browsers are considered to be OSes by themselves, running more than one of them is considered a sin for me |
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| 08:18.22 | dionysus69 | and I dont see any problem with ram usage on the screenshot :P |
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| 08:19.02 | Zen-Follower | you just have to tell em to reserve a high amount, that way it won't be available to your host system anymore |
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| 08:19.18 | rant | dionysus69: right.. I was illustrating that your issues with ram/swap when you have 4x my hardware is probably due to your choice of programs cause I can ride this machine hard.. its a laptop no less.. and running on battery right now |
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| 08:19.39 | rant | I rarely see a need to give more than 1GB to a VM unless its Win 10 or OSX |
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| 08:19.44 | dionysus69 | rant: well I also run 20 different kinds of daemons, but in the end it |
| 08:19.54 | dionysus69 | s up to kernel how it allocates wap |
| 08:19.59 | Zen-Follower | dionysus69, sure, limit yourself to one, if you don't care about your privacy ^^ |
| 08:20.18 | rant | dionysus69: yes those could be the source of your issue.. |
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| 08:20.55 | rant | dionysus69: closely examine the apps you use and your swappiness params.. |
| 08:21.38 | dionysus69 | ok different problem for my laptop, recently the audio it transmits through speakers and bluetooth connected devices has dropped like 3x, but aux headphone jack produces good old sound |
| 08:22.10 | rant | dionysus69: install pavucontrol and look into the settings |
| 08:22.18 | dionysus69 | I do have it |
| 08:22.32 | dionysus69 | I also looked in alsamixer |
| 08:22.38 | dionysus69 | all settings are on 100% |
| 08:22.43 | dionysus69 | still very low volume |
| 08:22.45 | rant | you can change volume on a per-device and per app basis.. in pa and you can go over 100% |
| 08:23.06 | Zen-Follower | back to my topic... is anyone here running Linux on a 3rd Gen. Ryzen CPU with Vega Graphics? |
| 08:23.08 | dionysus69 | let's say I bump volume to 150%, volume is then less than normal but scratching, meaning they are spoiling speakers |
| 08:23.15 | rant | and at the end of the day its likely w/e bluetooth device you use is just less amplified than your notmal speakers |
| 08:24.02 | dionysus69 | dunno I will come back to this when I am on my laptop then, atm I will just take a break :D |
| 08:24.16 | rant | many bluetooth devices are rather crappy commodity items.. not real quality audio for much other than wireless voice applications |
| 08:24.35 | rant | the ones that are good, are expensive :P |
| 08:24.45 | dionysus69 | I am talking about bose :D they used to work great, then one day the volume went down |
| 08:25.05 | dionysus69 | on my phone they still work great, it means my pc bluetooth thing has same thing wrong with it as with speakers |
| 08:25.17 | rant | shrugs |
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| 08:25.57 | dionysus69 | ok thanks for help guys, back to work :D |
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| 08:52.48 | Junior | Hi again |
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| 08:54.21 | rant | not yet, but we're working on it |
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| 08:55.03 | vlt | Hello. Every couple of days (on average 5 to 15) my Debian server isn't reachable by network anymore. On the serial console I can see a lot of network is down/up messages every few seconds. Of the things I tried (including rmmod/modprobe igb) only rebooting solves the problem. |
| 08:55.22 | vlt | This behaviour didn't change after I updated from Debian 9 to 10 last week. |
| 08:55.45 | vlt | Any idea what could cause this? http://paste.debian.net/1092588/ |
| 08:55.52 | vlt | And how to fix it? |
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| 08:57.15 | alkisg | dionysus69: re: swap: suppose a kde application has a memory leak; and it fills 32gb ram; this then would cause other apps to write to swap; then suppose you close the problematic app and RAM is reclaimed; the swap would still not be released until you run swapoff -a; swapon -a |
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| 08:58.22 | obliviancandy | Hello |
| 08:58.30 | rant | !kernels |
| 08:58.32 | dpkg | Linux kernel versions, stable: 5.2.2, mainline: 5.3-rc1, stable 5.2: 5.2.2, stable 5.1: 5.1.19, longterm 4.19: 4.19.60, longterm 4.14: 4.14.134, longterm 4.9: 4.9.186, longterm 4.4: 4.4.186, longterm 3.16: 3.16.70, linux-next: next-20190722 |
| 08:58.46 | rant | ,kernels |
| 08:58.47 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.0.0-trunk-686-pae (5.0.2-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-5-686-pae (4.19.37-6); buster: 4.19.0-5-686-pae (4.19.37-5); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (4.19.37-4~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-9-686 (4.9.168-1+deb9u4); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.9.168-1+deb9u3~deb8u1); wheezy- |
| 08:58.48 | judd | backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1) |
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| 08:59.45 | rant | vlt: may want to try a newer kernel and if problem persists, forward that upstream to kernel devs, but for now you can file that against the kernel you're using on the debian bts |
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| 09:01.06 | rant | preliminary search showed a lot of issues with that nic up to 2017.. I seen no hits more recent.. |
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| 09:04.19 | vlt | rant: That NIC in that very machine worked flawlessly since 2011 with various Debian versions. Maybe the problems were introduced with Debian 9. Hmmm ... |
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| 09:07.25 | jelly | vlt, maybe it's an actual hardware issue on that 10 year old mainboard model? |
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| 09:14.08 | rant | idk, the issues I saw on google ranged from 2011-2017 on various OS, I personally never seen that hw or driver before |
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| 09:19.18 | vlt | jelly: I can't rule that out. |
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| 09:21.05 | vlt | The next thing I'll try will propably be a kernel from Debian 8. |
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| 09:21.43 | jelly | hunt for bloated caps possibly near the eth chip(s), etc |
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| 09:26.52 | pragomer | hi. general question. meanwhile I have many so called "dotfiles" and configs in my homefolder. I am thinking about registration at e.g. gilab or github so that I can clone these configs to my new installs (i do often fresh installs). is this a recommended way or what whould you say? |
| 09:28.20 | themill | ,i vcsh |
| 09:28.21 | judd | Package vcsh (misc, optional) in buster/amd64: Version Control System for $HOME - multiple Git repositories in $HOME. Version: 1.20151229-1; Size: 18.7k; Installed: 52k; Homepage: https://github.com/RichiH/vcsh/blob/master/README.md |
| 09:28.44 | obliviancandy | Hey, what terminal emulator do you guys use? |
| 09:29.06 | colo-work | rxvt-unicode |
| 09:29.06 | themill | (be careful with putting things on a public git hoster that shouldn't be there) |
| 09:29.54 | rant | pragomer: people do it, I think there is even software for it.. |
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| 09:30.30 | rant | personally I'm perfectly happy keeping my own backups |
| 09:30.34 | pragomer | how would you realize this? i have even a homepage and so my own domain where I could put these files into a subfolder that isnt crawled |
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| 09:32.17 | rant | I would carry the stuff on a thumbdrive, probably encrypted |
| 09:32.33 | rant | but I am not willing to sit here and argue it with you :P |
| 09:33.34 | ratrace | i just rsync ~/ daily to an USB disk w/ btrfs snapshots |
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| 09:34.04 | ratrace | the backup script collects some system settings too, dpkg selections, etc... in case I'll need it. |
| 09:34.21 | pragomer | ok, so I think I will try to use rsync on my own sftp domain. |
| 09:34.36 | colo-work | I have gitolite3 installed on a Debian server in my home for my dotfiles-repo, and use restic to perform backups. |
| 09:34.44 | ayekat | git is practical because you get history |
| 09:35.13 | ayekat | i.e. I can still dig out some old/forgotten/deleted config from 2013ish, and knowing that, I'm not too conservative about keeping stuff around that I don't need |
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| 09:36.48 | ratrace | just beware that some .dotfiles contain passwords and other sensitive data you do not want to put in the "cloud" |
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| 09:37.14 | rant | doesn't want anything from his homedir in any cloud |
| 09:37.21 | ratrace | seconded |
| 09:37.27 | rant | clouds are for rain :P |
| 09:37.37 | ayekat | using git doesn't mean it's public |
| 09:37.42 | pragomer | ok, thanks. but thats clear. these are really just dotfiles like tmux, i3 configs etc... |
| 09:37.48 | pragomer | without personal info |
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| 09:38.01 | ayekat | also, you can generally avoid putting out sensitive information if you just never track autogenerated stuff |
| 09:38.24 | ayekat | (and avoid using software where the configuration files are not meant to be edited manually) |
| 09:39.02 | rant | you can also avoid it by never making it remotely possible.. I've many times removed my camera, recompiled my kernel without any support for such things, and then still put electrical tape over the hole :P |
| 09:39.34 | rant | and I can be pretty damn sure nobody used it for remote surveillance.. I didnt need to make sure I wasnt doing anything compromising |
| 09:39.47 | rant | the rule is don't CYA, do it 3 times |
| 09:39.58 | rant | because the LAW is, anything that can happen, will |
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| 09:40.23 | ayekat | yeah, depends if you care about sharing your configuration with other people, I guess |
| 09:40.30 | ayekat | but again, using git doesn't imply it's public |
| 09:40.59 | rant | I see the utility in the whoe git thing, and I know people do it, I think I've even seen before software specifically for this.. I dont recall what its called offhand.. |
| 09:41.10 | rant | and I imagine you could encrypt it beforehand with similar results |
| 09:41.17 | rant | but I'm still not gonna do it :P |
| 09:42.00 | ayekat | if you don't publish it, why encrypt it? |
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| 09:42.14 | ayekat | (I mean, apart from the general encryption that you'd otherwise do for your data) |
| 09:42.15 | ratrace | because it's on public infrastructure |
| 09:42.28 | ayekat | wat |
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| 09:43.01 | ratrace | "I will try to use rsync on my own sftp domain." that's what pragomer said, which implies a hosted public server |
| 09:43.26 | ratrace | and the question was initially about putting stuff on github or gitlab |
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| 09:44.08 | ratrace | so i think the whole context here is about putting config files in the "cloud" somewhere |
| 09:44.09 | ayekat | ah, I was just talking about using git |
| 09:44.22 | ratrace | oh sure, git per se is just fine |
| 09:44.22 | ayekat | yeah, if you publish it, take precautions |
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| 09:45.40 | ZaZaGX | i installed Debian, but it won't let me do sudo apt-get update |
| 09:46.12 | ayekat | too bad |
| 09:46.30 | Mathisen | ZaZaGX, an error message would help... |
| 09:46.51 | rant | ZaZaGX: I'm sorry to hear that.. you need to be more specific.. sudo isn't installed by default on debian unless you do not choose a root password |
| 09:47.08 | ZaZaGX | can't do sudo, it will be reported |
| 09:47.32 | ayekat | sounds like your user isn't authorised to use sudo - have you configured it appropriately? |
| 09:47.43 | ayekat | (e.g. add to the sudo group, visudo, etc.) |
| 09:48.10 | Mathisen | ZaZaGX, add your self to the sudoers file. nano /etc/sudoers as root |
| 09:48.25 | themill | ITYM: adduser yourusername sudo |
| 09:48.27 | ayekat | nooo, use 'visudo' - editing /etc/sudoers directly isn't recommended |
| 09:48.52 | ratrace | no need, the sudo group is already set up by default; just usermod -a -G sudo yourusername |
| 09:49.02 | leni536 | is sudo installed by default? As I remember I had to install it. |
| 09:49.16 | ayekat | leni536: depends if you set a root password when installing |
| 09:49.16 | ratrace | it seems to be on buster |
| 09:49.44 | ayekat | (or used to depend, at least - it used to be that if you set no root password, it would install sudo and add the first user to the sudo group) |
| 09:50.15 | Mathisen | just add yourself only diffrence with visudo is it the syntax checking |
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| 09:50.52 | ratrace | Mathisen: no need, the sudo group is already set up by sudoers |
| 09:54.54 | humpled | what is sudoers? |
| 09:55.24 | ayekat | man sudoers - file used by sudo to determine who is allowed to do what |
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| 09:56.08 | ayekat | (very simplified) |
| 09:56.37 | humpled | ah, it's a config |
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| 10:56.52 | Zen-Follower | is a specific kernel version needed for AMD Picasso support? |
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| 11:02.28 | FinalX | ,v mysql-server |
| 11:02.29 | judd | Package: mysql-server on amd64 -- jessie: 5.5.60-0+deb8u1; jessie-security: 5.5.62-0+deb8u1; stretch: 5.5.9999+default; sid: 5.7.26-1 |
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| 11:05.21 | themill | ,v mariadb-server |
| 11:05.22 | judd | Package: mariadb-server on amd64 -- jessie: 10.0.32-0+deb8u1; jessie-security: 10.0.38-0+deb8u1; stretch-security: 10.1.26-0+deb9u1; stretch-security: 10.1.37-0+deb9u1; stretch: 10.1.38-0+deb9u1; sid: 1:10.3.13-1; bullseye: 1:10.3.15-1; buster: 1:10.3.15-1; sid: 1:10.3.16-1 |
| 11:05.24 | themill | FinalX: ^^ |
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| 11:06.25 | towo^work | Zen-Follower, 5.1, better 5.2 |
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| 11:07.29 | towo^work | Zen-Follower, but you would eben need a recent mesa and libdrm, afaik official support for picasso is in mesa 19.2 |
| 11:07.29 | afidegnum | hi all, |
| 11:07.38 | afidegnum | where do i configure the current client_max_body_size ? |
| 11:07.47 | afidegnum | this is my current nginx config https://www.hastebin.com/abijixakay.nginx |
| 11:08.31 | kreyren | is debian optimized to run on Linux 5.2.0+ ? |
| 11:08.41 | kreyren | i want to switch it from 4.19 |
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| 11:23.13 | FinalX | themill: that's exactly what I didn't want to get :) |
| 11:23.24 | FinalX | ...in this particular case |
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| 11:24.14 | FinalX | think we might switch these boxes to xenial for the time being instead, and then later it's somebody else's problem to upgrade :p |
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| 11:26.41 | themill | that's the sort of 'switch' that is a 'reinstall' of course |
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| 11:32.38 | mrig | Hello |
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| 11:34.28 | mrig | I seem to be getting a few hundred microseconds delay before a couple of my keyboard keys register being pressed, this is only on a usb keyboard not on the laptop keys. Could the update to Buster and Wayland be causing this? |
| 11:34.58 | mrig | the h key and the arrow up key, curiously. |
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| 11:55.38 | Guifle | hello, I asked here whether debian 10 was really ready, and if it would run smoothly. someone here said, yes. I installed it, and a number of things don't work. |
| 11:55.51 | Guifle | I can't call programs from the command line |
| 11:56.07 | themill | real commands and real output would be sensible |
| 11:56.24 | Guifle | 'unable to init server: Could not connect: Connection refused' |
| 11:56.45 | Guifle | 'cannot open display:0' |
| 11:56.53 | Guifle | 'cannot open display: :0' |
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| 11:56.55 | themill | that doesn't sound very command line |
| 11:56.55 | Guifle | 'cannot open display: :0' |
| 11:56.56 | pyfgcr | command is startx? |
| 11:57.05 | Guifle | 'cannot open display: :99.0' |
| 11:57.06 | AppAraat | hi, is https://paste.debian.net/ down for you as well? |
| 11:57.31 | humpled | down for me |
| 11:57.32 | AppAraat | returning a 503 here |
| 11:57.33 | Guifle | these are the outputs I get when I want to open programs on CL |
| 11:57.56 | themill | Guifle: *real commands* and real output |
| 11:58.11 | jelly | AppAraat, yes, down from here |
| 11:58.19 | AppAraat | so uh, who do I notify about this? Who's behind debian paste? |
| 11:58.29 | themill | AppAraat: already done |
| 11:58.36 | AppAraat | ah cool, thanks |
| 11:58.37 | rant | !paste |
| 11:58.37 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 11:58.48 | Guifle | themill, 'sudo nautilus' or 'gksudo nautilus' and I get 'cannot open display: :0' |
| 11:58.53 | rant | hmm |
| 11:59.03 | Guifle | or else F12 doesn't work. |
| 11:59.09 | rant | I could swear I put termbin.com and 0bin.net on there |
| 11:59.31 | pyfgcr | Guifle: does it only happen with sudo/launching as root? |
| 11:59.40 | themill | Guifle: I'd encourage you not to run things like that as root at all, really. |
| 11:59.46 | jelly | Guifle, you probably shouldn't run GUI file managers as root, what is F12? |
| 11:59.49 | humpled | i think gksudo is gone |
| 12:00.15 | Guifle | pyfpyfgcr, yes, only with sudo/root |
| 12:00.17 | jelly | rant, 0bin requires JavaScript and that makes baby greycat cry |
| 12:00.29 | Guifle | jelly, Guake terminal opens with F12 |
| 12:00.39 | colo-work | Guifle, I think that nw `su` behaviour at the root of this is documented in the Debian 10 release notes |
| 12:01.02 | jelly | paste.ubuntu.com is a-ok |
| 12:01.21 | themill | paste.d.n is back |
| 12:01.38 | rant | jelly: heh.. yeah well I'd but 0bin on there for the paranoid people cause at least it didnt have popups, ads, etc like pastebin.com |
| 12:01.39 | AppAraat | jelly: "Paste expirations (or lack thereof) are approximate and not guaranteed" :( |
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| 12:02.17 | jelly | AppAraat, well doh, I don't have infinite disk space to store thing on my pastebin either. |
| 12:03.15 | pyfgcr | Guifle: I think that wayland doesn't allow you to run GUI stuff as root, but you can try with pkexec |
| 12:03.16 | AppAraat | but it's all text :D |
| 12:03.18 | themill | Guifle: It might be that you need to run an X session rather than a wayland to get these things to run as root... but also, see if there are ways of doing this not as root. It's not a good plan |
| 12:03.40 | Guifle | jelly, how do I switch to the latter? |
| 12:03.41 | AppAraat | then again if I want somewhat of a permanence I should probably web-archive it |
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| 12:04.21 | pyfgcr | Guifle: Anyway it's not a great idea to run nautilus as root, there is a reason why it is not allowed by default |
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| 12:04.45 | Guifle | themill, pyfgcr, I understand, also heard about it, but sometimes it comes handy |
| 12:05.05 | themill | it does? |
| 12:05.24 | Guifle | I guess for X session I need to select it before logging in |
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| 12:08.14 | Guifle | promises to try getting used to not using gui tools as root |
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| 12:09.26 | pyfgcr | I have a key on my keyboard marked with a moon, I often press it by accident and the behaviour is like if 'poweroff' was called |
| 12:09.47 | jelly | the dreaded sleep button |
| 12:09.53 | pyfgcr | trying to get the code with xev is probably not a good idea |
| 12:10.02 | Guifle | it'd be great to be able to use F12 again, though :) |
| 12:10.19 | pyfgcr | jelly: yep, any guess to what to look for? |
| 12:10.26 | epony | Why should it be dreaded? APM/ACPI implementation problems? |
| 12:10.34 | rdz | hey all. is the default policy in Buster to install suggested? |
| 12:10.35 | jelly | pyfgcr, nope, sorry |
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| 12:10.57 | pyfgcr | epony: because I have no guess how to disable it |
| 12:11.20 | epony | in OpenBSD, there is a sysctl (lidaction) |
| 12:11.26 | pyfgcr | and it doesn't sleep, it does poweroff |
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| 12:11.38 | pyfgcr | systemd? |
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| 12:11.51 | epony | OpenBSD does not have systemDesktop. |
| 12:11.58 | epony | :-) |
| 12:12.18 | jelly | rdz, it does not seem to be on a freshly installed buster. apt-config dump|grep -i sugge |
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| 12:13.06 | pyfgcr | epony: I thought I was on #debian, not #openBSD ð |
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| 12:13.39 | rdz | jelly, ah.. that's how I can check.. thanks |
| 12:14.27 | pyfgcr | Guifle: can you remind me the command associated to F12, I pressed the mentioned sleep button just short ago |
| 12:14.48 | epony | pyfgcr, check out the lyrics (and the song) related to this https://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#45 |
| 12:16.36 | Guifle | pyfgcr, Guake terminal, once started, can be shown by pressing F12. that's all I do and know. |
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| 12:17.58 | pyfgcr | ah, I guess the point is HandlePowerKey=poweroff in logind.conf, but I actually only want to disable the keyboard key, not the actual power key, that is too handy |
| 12:18.01 | jelly | Guifle, maybe guake does not work with waylang either? |
| 12:18.09 | jelly | wayland |
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| 12:18.32 | epony | waylay |
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| 12:18.45 | jelly | pyfgcr, but that's not the power key and should not be interpreted as such |
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| 12:19.29 | Guifle | jelly, I just noticed that F12 works when the current window is the web browser, but it doesn't when it is file manager or any other. |
| 12:19.31 | themill | Fun #857228 |
| 12:19.32 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/857228 in guake (open, unreproducible, moreinfo): «Fwd: guake: toggle shorcut (F12 by default) not working in Wayland»; severity: normal; opened: 2017-03-08; last modified: 2019-03-08. |
| 12:19.40 | pyfgcr | jelly: somehow it is... |
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| 12:20.39 | Guifle | interesting |
| 12:21.30 | Guifle | when f12 doesnt work, I can still open the terminal by going to its icon on the sidebar |
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| 12:24.00 | Guifle | thank you for your help, and for reporting the problem |
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| 12:24.58 | epony | on my laptop, there is no physical suspend switch, but the Fn-F1 combo (Zzz) puts the machine to sleep, hybernation works too, and the power button goes for a graceful shutdown, the lid close can be configured to do suspend, hybernate or nothing. No changes required to have this, just good ACPI in #OpenBSD. |
| 12:25.54 | themill | You do realise that's dependent more on your hardware than the OS. |
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| 12:25.59 | pyfgcr | Guifle: https://github.com/Guake/guake/issues/1448 |
| 12:26.08 | pyfgcr | is that your issue? |
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| 12:27.15 | humpled | yup that's how it works on my laptop under xfce, just lucky i guess |
| 12:27.42 | epony | :-) |
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| 12:32.09 | epony | The fun part is that it works just as good on 20-yrs old desktops too. |
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| 12:32.18 | epony | (and newer) |
| 12:32.52 | Guifle | pyfgcr, seems so. but I had it working in stretch and ubuntu. only with buster it didn't work. |
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| 12:37.18 | AppAraat | /part |
| 12:37.23 | AppAraat | oops |
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| 12:37.59 | jmd | What's the holdup getting gettext-0.20 into sid? |
| 12:38.25 | pyfgcr | Guifle: probably only the current buster version is affected by this bug. try downgrading theCorvus package |
| 12:38.26 | greycat | !debian-next |
| 12:38.26 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 12:38.33 | pyfgcr | *the package |
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| 12:40.18 | humpled | but F12 in the browser opens developer tools |
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| 12:42.29 | pyfgcr | epony: interesting; however, on any laptop I had, Fn+<stuff> keys are managed by the driver/firmware directly. And btw, this is a sun type 7 keyboard (usb), not the one on my laptop |
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| 12:45.01 | ryouba | hi! |
| 12:45.18 | epony | pyfgcr, that goes to confirm the opposite of what themill insisted (that it's the hardware more than the OS ensuring these things work), while my opinion is that hardware does have to work, but typically the issues are in the OS / firmware / ACPI / user setup. |
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| 12:45.35 | ryouba | i while back i apt upgrade'd and there was a message instructing me how to move apache to php-fpm 7.3. how can i get that message back? (i'd like to do that now) |
| 12:45.40 | ryouba | a* |
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| 12:47.05 | epony | hence the example given with #OpenBSD setup, where it just behaves correctly and sometimes even better handling of these (power management) in comparison with Windows (that the hardware makers test for nearly always exclusively).. |
| 12:47.25 | epony | ;-) |
| 12:47.36 | epony | pressure point applied |
| 12:47.53 | Guifle | pyfgcr, thank you, I will try it |
| 12:48.40 | ryouba | oh, nevermind. endless scrollback in tmux ftw! |
| 12:48.44 | ryouba | bye! |
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| 12:50.57 | Guifle | thank you for your help, bye! |
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| 12:51.53 | pyfgcr | epony: in this case, it is most probably your keyboard giving the right keycodes; apperently my key is called SunPowerSwitch, and its intended behavior is poweroff, even on sun (now oracle) systems |
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| 12:56.54 | pyfgcr | how can |
| 12:57.08 | pyfgcr | I get a list of the keycodes triggering poweroff? |
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| 13:05.24 | epony | xev / test extension? |
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| 13:07.35 | centrix | On Deb10 I get "GENSEC login failed: NT_STATUS_UNSUCCESSFUL" in squid's cache.log |
| 13:07.36 | humpled | xmodmap -pk ? |
| 13:07.38 | epony | pyfgcr, yes some laptops have better support via acpi-brand firmware |
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| 13:07.54 | centrix | net ads testjoin works |
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| 13:08.19 | centrix | wbinfo -a user%pass says the text plain is OK |
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| 13:08.42 | centrix | smbclient -U ccc //host/share work too. |
| 13:09.04 | centrix | However I get a username/password browser prompt |
| 13:09.09 | epony | one of the reasons people tend to pick IBM's otherwise proprietary, overpriced and not any different in terms of reliability hardware (albeit with a bit better longevity and serviceability, if you can find "that special" part) |
| 13:09.39 | centrix | I also checked "/var/lib/samba" |
| 13:09.41 | centrix | drwxr-x--- 2 root winbindd_priv 4096 Jul 22 14:55 winbindd_privileged |
| 13:10.00 | luna | https://debconf19.debconf.org/schedule/venue/1/ The new DPL is talking |
| 13:10.13 | centrix | So the squid's heper should reach the winbind's pipe file |
| 13:10.18 | centrix | Still no success. |
| 13:10.24 | centrix | Any clues, please? |
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| 13:10.52 | pyfgcr | humpled: thanks |
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| 13:11.58 | pyfgcr | epony: I'm prety sure it is managet by systemd, before it even reaches X/xev |
| 13:12.34 | epony | pyfgcr, most probably.. with desktops and "workstation"^W overpriced desktops, it's much more the software at fault than acpi-firmware |
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| 13:14.12 | jstolarek | I have two encrypted partitions and after upgrade to Buster one of them (/home) is mounted automatically at boot, without asking for password. How do I turn that off? Not asking for a password at boot defeats the purpose of encryption :-/ |
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| 13:17.34 | epony | jstolarek, how does that work? Have you tried to log in with another user and read the contents of that partition? |
| 13:17.48 | NetTerminalGene | jstolarek, dunno but you may want to look at /etc/crypttab |
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| 13:18.08 | karlpinc | jstolarek: What is it encrypted with, LUKS? |
| 13:18.15 | hans_ | what kernel is buster on? (normal kernel, non-hwe) |
| 13:18.28 | greycat | 4.19.x |
| 13:18.37 | hans_ | thanks |
| 13:18.44 | jstolarek | karlpinc: yes, that seems to be LUKS |
| 13:19.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1563] by debhelper |
| 13:19.26 | jstolarek | NetTerminalGene: entries for both partitions look identical in crypttab (modulo UUID) |
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| 13:19.52 | jstolarek | this has to do with something about LUKS keys, but this is unknown territory for me so I want to proceed with caution |
| 13:20.09 | jstolarek | I don't want to completely lose access to my encrypted partition |
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| 13:20.34 | karlpinc | jstolarek: I'm not using buster, but LUKS requires some password to unlock the data. Do you have the same password on both partitions? |
| 13:21.02 | xbow | y0⢠|
| 13:21.08 | jstolarek | karlpinc: yes |
| 13:21.18 | pyfgcr | epony: it's not really a fault of anything, I think it is the intended behavior, I'm just trying to change it |
| 13:22.17 | karlpinc | jstolarek: Then there's probably some magic in the password prompter in the initramfs that's trying the same password and not prompting you if it works. |
| 13:22.52 | NetTerminalGene | jstolarek, did you create a luks key file? |
| 13:23.13 | jelly | hans_, debian doesn't really have hwe stacks anyway |
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| 13:23.24 | jstolarek | NetTerminalGene: no. Up until now (i.e upgrade from Stretch to Buster) I was always prompted for both passwords |
| 13:23.35 | karlpinc | jstolarek: You've got 8 key slots with LUKS, so that gives you 8 passwords. (The point being that the actual key is encrypted using the passwords in the slots.) |
| 13:23.54 | epony | pyfgcr, must have worked as unexpected then (you're gone) |
| 13:24.00 | hans_ | jelly, oh, well Ubuntu does and i always just thought they inherited it from Debian, guess not |
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| 13:24.28 | jstolarek | karlpinc: if I do cryptsetup luksDump on both devices they only show Key Slot 0 as being enabled and the remaining 7 slots are disabled |
| 13:24.36 | karlpinc | jstolarek: You could use another key slot with a different password. If that works (manually, as root) then you can remove the key slot that's got the same password as the other partition. |
| 13:25.13 | karlpinc | jstolarek: Or you could try to figure out what's prompting for the password and read its man page or otherwise see if it is configurable. |
| 13:25.49 | jstolarek | karlpinc: if you're right that there is some magic going on that reuses the same password then I am fine with that - it still requires a password and I can only blame myself that both are identical |
| 13:28.47 | deleuze6 | Hi all, I recently upgraded from stretch to buster. Now I cannot read man pages, which is really frustrating. e.g. 'man apt' -> ' Manual page apt(8) line ?/? (END) (press h for help or q to quit)' with no text and then 'man: command exited with status 1: (cd /usr/share/man && /usr/lib/man-db/zsoelim) | [...]' when I hit 'q' |
| 13:29.10 | deleuze6 | what is happening? It looks like the upgrade broke something about the pager used by man. |
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| 13:29.59 | greycat | deleuze6: is the $PAGER environment variable set to anything? |
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| 13:30.09 | deleuze6 | greycat: no |
| 13:30.17 | deleuze6 | should it be? |
| 13:30.19 | greycat | yeah, didn't really expect it to be that easy... |
| 13:30.25 | greycat | no, it shouldn't |
| 13:30.56 | deleuze6 | I tried man -P less apt; that did nothing |
| 13:31.18 | deleuze6 | by which I mean it did the same thing |
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| 13:32.18 | greycat | seems like whatever's breaking is happening during the decompressing/formatting of the page (hence the "line ?/?" part) |
| 13:32.44 | greycat | are any file systems full, or mounted read-only when they shouldn't be? |
| 13:33.09 | deleuze6 | greycat: al of the relevant filesystems are mounted rw |
| 13:34.51 | deleuze6 | in particular I can read and write to the filesystem containing e.g. /usr/share/man/man8/apt.8.gz |
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| 13:35.14 | deleuze6 | also I get the same thing when I run man as root |
| 13:36.01 | greycat | does it happen with man pages from all packages? I'm wondering if some or all of the .gz files are corrupted |
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| 13:36.34 | greycat | the other alternative being that the chain of programs which decompress and format them is somehow broken |
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| 13:37.49 | deleuze6 | greycat: as far as I can tell, it happens with all packages. I have tried many different types of things with man entries and they all behave this way now. |
| 13:39.23 | greycat | OK, the next thing I would try is reinstalling the man-db package, just because I can't think of anything else to try except strace-ing the entire chain of programs. |
| 13:40.14 | karlpinc | jstolarek: See zless /usr/share/doc/cryptsetup/README.Debian.gz. You can probably look at the changelog there and check for the change in functionality, or wherever "askpass" comes from. (Or maybe it's in the referenced initramfs readme, dunno.) Anyway, the changelog should give you more info. |
| 13:40.18 | greycat | your zsoelim thing from your error message is also in that package |
| 13:40.40 | Fox | deleuze6: does `update-alternatives --display pager` look ok ? |
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| 13:41.17 | greycat | they said they have the same symptoms with "man -P less" so that's probably not it |
| 13:41.23 | greycat | doesn't hurt to check |
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| 13:41.32 | Fox | you're right |
| 13:41.57 | namll | hello, I have a local server that when i reboot it sometimes it connects to the network wired through enp3s0 and sometimes it doesnt. Usually when It doesn't connect i just reboot again and it connects. |
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| 13:43.20 | deleuze6 | greycat: yea, I thought of that. reinstalling man-db has no effect, as does dpkg-reconfigure. |
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| 13:43.44 | deleuze6 | strace does not show anything obvious |
| 13:44.15 | karlpinc | deleuze6: Have you looked for a bug report? Maybe somebody else has your problem. |
| 13:44.18 | deleuze6 | Fox: it does look OK. /bin/less priority 77, /bin/more priority 50, /usr/bin/w3m priority 25, everything is there, all good |
| 13:45.21 | themill | deleuze6: what does "locale" output? Anything funny in $TERM or some $MAN... ($MANOPT for instance) |
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| 13:46.45 | roylaprattep | https://pastebin.com/raaBbBjr |
| 13:46.52 | roylaprattep | can i securely delete all this packages? |
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| 13:46.59 | roylaprattep | these* |
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| 13:47.40 | roylaprattep | except the one i installed manually, like plex, unrar and gnump3d |
| 13:47.53 | deleuze6 | karlpinc: ah, good idea. I had looked ('man broken after buster upgrade' and similar was not so useful so I gave up too easily) |
| 13:48.05 | deleuze6 | I found this: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1009110/man-pages-broken-after-dist-upgrade |
| 13:48.16 | jelly | roylaprattep, refine your search to avoid those three, then replace "search" in the command with "purge" or "remove" |
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| 13:48.44 | xbow | deleuze6: did you try to recreate the mandb? |
| 13:48.46 | deleuze6 | I am not using ubuntu, but the advice worked for me. that said, the solution seems to be about disabling apparmor; not sure this is a good idea? |
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| 13:49.27 | deleuze6 | xbow: how would I do that? (by the way, the 'aa-disable /usr/bin/man' solution worked, although I am not sure about its implications) |
| 13:49.29 | roylaprattep | jelly: how? |
| 13:49.37 | themill | deleuze6: does "MAN_DISABLE_SECCOMP=1 man man" work? |
| 13:49.40 | deleuze6 | themill: (for the record the locales were fine) |
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| 13:49.56 | jelly | roylaprattep, how did you come up with the current search? |
| 13:50.04 | xbow | deleuze6: so it is fixxed now? |
| 13:50.16 | roylaprattep | aptitude search '~i(!~ODebian)' |
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| 13:51.00 | jelly | roylaprattep, do you understand what those ~i and !~ODebian stand for? |
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| 13:51.11 | roylaprattep | jelly: not exactly no, can you explain? |
| 13:51.32 | roylaprattep | installed package that are not~ODebian? |
| 13:51.54 | deleuze6 | themill: no. both 'man man' and 'MAN_DISABLE_SECCOMP=1 man man' break after I 'aa-enforce /usr/bin/man', and both work after I run 'aa-disable /usr/bin/man' |
| 13:52.12 | themill | fun |
| 13:52.18 | jelly | roylaprattep, https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/aptitude/ch02s04s05.en.html#tableSearchTermQuickGuide |
| 13:52.36 | deleuze6 | xbow: yes, it is fixed enough for me to be satisfied, but I worry about running aa-disable on things |
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| 13:52.53 | jelly | roylaprattep, append a search term that says NOT package with name grump3d |
| 13:53.11 | xbow | deleuze6: k |
| 13:53.34 | karlpinc | deleuze6: See: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=889617 It says (at one point) that rebooting fixes the problem (for non-root users). Did you find rebooting makes the problem go away? |
| 13:53.35 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/889617 in man-db (closed, patch): «man-db: all man pages fail to display with "command exited with status 4"»; severity: grave; opened: 2018-02-05; last modified: 2018-03-30. |
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| 13:53.56 | jelly | roylaprattep, off the top of my head, that might be !~ngrump3d |
| 13:54.01 | deleuze6 | I say this after having spent hours yesterday dodging webpages encouraging me to disable security before determining (on this channel) that the right solution was to regenerate dh parameters for my imapd setup, which had begun complaining about short keys |
| 13:54.20 | jelly | and then two more terms for the other two packages the same way |
| 13:54.33 | karlpinc | deleuze6: Maybe a new bug needs to be filed (referencing the old bug). |
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| 13:55.56 | jelly | roylaprattep, I'm also not sure what the () are supposed to do. aptitude search '~i !~ODebian' works here |
| 13:56.45 | deleuze6 | karlpinc: I don't know. Actually I first determined this was a problem after rebooting following the upgrade to buster. |
| 13:57.02 | deleuze6 | (which might suggest that rebooting does not fix the problem, although I have not tested it carefully) |
| 13:57.29 | roylaprattep | jelly: how to i add not to search for gnump3d |
| 13:57.37 | roylaprattep | i am trying but it doesnt work |
| 13:58.35 | jstolarek | karlpinc: thanks. Can't see anything obvious there |
| 13:58.35 | deleuze6 | karlpinc: I also note that Message #37 of that ticket says that the problem (for which rebooting was a candidate solution) was fixed as of man-db 2.8.0-2, whereas I am running 2.8.5-2 |
| 13:58.50 | karlpinc | deleuze6: Sounds worth a bug report.... |
| 13:58.56 | jelly | roylaprattep, just append to the same string does not work? aptitude search '~i(!~ODebian) !~ngnump3d' |
| 13:58.57 | roylaprattep | jelly: first, aptitude search '~i !~ODebian'm what does it ask exactly to the system? |
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| 13:59.32 | greycat | deleuze6: just for the record, you did "apt full-upgrade" or "apt-get dist-upgrade" all the way to buster, and there are no other issues? |
| 13:59.34 | karlpinc | deleuze6: Yah. They closed and archived the bug. But it, or one of its close relations, still seems to be biting you. |
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| 14:00.23 | jelly | roylaprattep, match packages that are ~i installed, AND that are ! NOT ~ODebian available from any repo with Origin set to Debian |
| 14:00.26 | deleuze6 | greycat: I ran 'apt-get dist-upgrade', yes |
| 14:00.38 | deleuze6 | karlpinc: indeed that would seem to be the case. |
| 14:00.51 | jstolarek | karlpinc: but I just made a simple experiment. During boot I misspelled password for my data partition and them I got asked for a password for my /home partition (and then once again for a correct password for data partition) |
| 14:01.03 | roylaprattep | ok nice |
| 14:01.04 | hans_ | what is the debian10 equivalent of debian9's "adduser foo sudo" ? (to add the user named "foo" to the group named "sudo" ) |
| 14:01.08 | roylaprattep | jelly: https://pastebin.com/mphncWwr |
| 14:01.15 | jstolarek | so all seems to be fine, i.e. one still needs to provide a password to access my partitions |
| 14:01.26 | karlpinc | jstolarek: That's where it says that "askpass" is doing the password asking, along with something else it references that's in the initramfs package. (IIRC) So now that you know what's asking, you can look into what changed in the program that's asking. |
| 14:01.29 | greycat | hans_: it hasn't changed. |
| 14:01.32 | greycat | !buster su |
| 14:01.32 | dpkg | The <su> command changed in buster: it no longer overrides the PATH variable. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for workarounds. |
| 14:01.35 | roylaprattep | is it safe to remove these packages, i issued the command "aptitude search '~i(!~ODebian) !~ngnump3d !~nplexmediaserver !~nunrar'" |
| 14:01.39 | jelly | roylaprattep, is gnump3d now absent from the output? |
| 14:01.43 | roylaprattep | yes |
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| 14:02.05 | hans_ | i wonder why the netinst installer did not install adduser, the debian 9 netinst installer did that by default, |
| 14:02.10 | hans_ | anyway, what package do i need for adduser? |
| 14:02.13 | greycat | hans_: are you using "su"? |
| 14:02.17 | hans_ | yes |
| 14:02.18 | greycat | !buster su |
| 14:02.19 | dpkg | The <su> command changed in buster: it no longer overrides the PATH variable. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for workarounds. |
| 14:02.23 | jelly | roylaprattep, then go ahead and try to remove them. Some might be dependencies for other packages, or not, so read carefully what aptitude is saying |
| 14:02.23 | hans_ | ohhh |
| 14:02.24 | hans_ | why |
| 14:02.27 | hans_ | why doesn't it do that? |
| 14:02.32 | greycat | because debian developers are idiots sometimes |
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| 14:02.47 | jelly | greycat, upstream developers IIRC |
| 14:03.03 | greycat | but the DDs chose to follow the marching morons |
| 14:03.06 | roylaprattep | jelly: ok thx! |
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| 14:03.29 | roylaprattep | jelly: if strectch dist-upgrade didnt removed them, probably because i need them |
| 14:03.30 | roylaprattep | tho |
| 14:03.31 | jelly | greycat, eh, this isn't the first or the last time that debian followed upstream |
| 14:03.37 | greycat | "everyone else's systems are broken so we should break ours too, so they match" |
| 14:03.38 | hans_ | does "sudo su" alter $PATH ? |
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| 14:03.42 | roylaprattep | jessie to strecth, more exactly |
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| 14:04.14 | greycat | hans_: just use "sudo -s" if all you want is a root shell with $PATH changed. No need to use both sudo AND su. |
| 14:04.32 | hans_ | that sucks, because on UBUNTU doing "sudo -s" does not alter $PATH, but doing "sudo su" does |
| 14:04.39 | jelly | roylaprattep, that reasoning is not right. The package management system simply won't remove packages that are set to manually installed, no matter where they come from. |
| 14:04.44 | Haohmaru | su su sudo su su SU SUUUUUUUU |
| 14:04.51 | hans_ | and.. i'm changing between ubuntu and debian systems a lot >.> |
| 14:05.02 | greycat | !sing sussudio |
| 14:05.02 | dpkg | sings "Su, su, sudio...Su, su, sussudio" |
| 14:05.03 | roylaprattep | jelly: ok |
| 14:05.06 | alkisg | sudo -i ? :) |
| 14:05.17 | hans_ | alkisg, yeah i think -i is portable between both debian and ubuntu |
| 14:05.28 | greycat | alkisg: ALL of these are on the wiki page that the bot has triggered twice |
| 14:05.29 | roylaprattep | jelly i know that gnump3d and plexmediaserver had no dependencies |
| 14:05.32 | jelly | roylaprattep, doing cleanup afterwards is a normal part of the release upgrade, and is, I believe, documented in the release notes |
| 14:05.43 | alkisg | Sorry wasn't following closely |
| 14:05.49 | roylaprattep | i did the cleanup |
| 14:06.08 | hans_ | > hans is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported. |
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| 14:06.19 | roylaprattep | whats the dpkg command to search for obsolete packages after dist-upgrade? |
| 14:06.36 | hans_ | nvm |
| 14:06.37 | jelly | roylaprattep, dpkg and apt do not know where those came from once they're installed, they also do not know whether you have, say, locally compiled binaries or scripts that depends on old packages. |
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| 14:06.51 | hans_ | roylaprattep, i don't know, but my best guess would be: apt autoremove |
| 14:06.53 | roylaprattep | jelly: ok |
| 14:06.59 | jelly | !obsolete |
| 14:06.59 | dpkg | If you remove a repository from your sources.list (e.g. removing <dmm>), then you should check what packages you have installed from the other repository. Synaptic and aptitude have a "Obsolete and Locally Created Packages" list. Or, "aptitude search ~o". Note this doesn't include packages that exist in the repo at a different version to the one you have installed; see <not available> <list repositories>. |
| 14:07.13 | Haohmaru | roylaprattep synaptic shows them in a section |
| 14:08.14 | roylaprattep | someone gave me the exact same command but for dpkg a few days ago |
| 14:09.12 | greycat | roylaprattep: dpkg does not have the CONCEPT of "obsolete" packages. Aptitude and synaptic do, because they CREATE that concept themselves by comparing the installed packages against the theoretically available packages. |
| 14:09.50 | jelly | roylaprattep, dpkg does not know about repositories, it'd be rather hard to provide an equivalent |
| 14:10.08 | jelly | unless you go back to dselect and /var/lib/dpkg/available |
| 14:10.27 | hans_ | why do i need to re-login to ssh for sudo to notice that "hans" has become a member of the group "sudo" ? if you're not a member of sudo when ssh'ing in, then add yourself to sudo on a different terminal, then try to run sudo again, sudo won't notice that you're a member on the existing terminal, but if you ssh back in, sudo knows, it's kinda weird |
| 14:10.47 | jelly | hans_, because group memberships are applied at login time. |
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| 14:11.22 | colo-work | what do you think are the chances of getting Debian Buster onto one of these (with proper support for all the integrated hardware)? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-PIPO-X8S-X8-Pro-Dual-HD-Graphics-TV-BOX-Windows-10-Intel-Z3735F-Quad-Core/32844931962.html |
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| 14:11.46 | jelly | colo-work, depends on how closed the boot loader is. |
| 14:11.52 | roylaprattep | jelly: ok thx |
| 14:12.00 | roylaprattep | jelly: really appreciated man |
| 14:12.01 | greycat | Users do not have privileges. Processes have privileges. When you login, your login shell or session is infused with privileges based on the passwd/group files, and those are passed down to everything you run within that session. |
| 14:12.14 | colo-work | jelly, are there completely locked down bootloaders even fore x86 platforms? :( |
| 14:12.25 | jelly | colo-work, and I'm only commenting on "getting Debian Buster onto", without "support for all the hardware" |
| 14:12.34 | ohwowlol | colo-work: will work most likely |
| 14:12.47 | ohwowlol | probably using even an non-UEFI bios |
| 14:12.49 | jelly | colo-work, that's not a normal x86 machine. |
| 14:13.24 | ohwowlol | jelly: it is a normal x64 |
| 14:13.29 | jelly | that's a tablet/stb cheap cherry lake, probably uefi, probably secure boot |
| 14:13.31 | colo-work | jelly, I realize its an atom SoC-thing without certain backwards compatibility |
| 14:13.48 | jelly | ohwowlol, I wouldn't bet on that |
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| 14:14.19 | ohwowlol | jelly: its 50/50 indeed. but I highly doubt it wont work. |
| 14:14.35 | ohwowlol | Ive bought my fair share of those SoC types, its most likely running linux even better |
| 14:14.37 | jelly | it certainly won't be an OOTB experience |
| 14:14.52 | ohwowlol | they dont care about Secureboot at all. that was the experience I had with them |
| 14:15.40 | deleuze6 | karlpinc, greycat: thanks for your help. I must add that while I appreciate the security hardening encouraged by Debian buster, it would benefit from some clearer signposting and easier onramps to the better security. |
| 14:15.52 | jelly | ohwowlol, that's good to know |
| 14:15.54 | deleuze6 | (otherwise workarounds will proliferate) |
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| 14:16.14 | colo-work | I'll try to collect more data before I'll have to order one to find out for sure ;) |
| 14:18.06 | jelly | Z3735F is an old SoC, don't pay more than $30-ish for those |
| 14:18.27 | jelly | I'm not sure it even does HDMI-CEC |
| 14:19.21 | jelly | oh it's one of those fatties with a screen. |
| 14:19.25 | colo-work | jelly, I wouldn't intend to use it as a media set-top box kind of thing, but as a kind of controller hub for my (cloud-less) "smart home" |
| 14:19.46 | colo-work | (displaying a browser-based frontend, most of the time) |
| 14:20.07 | jelly | a r.pi 3b or 4 and a screen might be cheaper |
| 14:20.34 | colo-work | but the screens (that I've seen) suck :/ |
| 14:20.39 | jelly | nod |
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| 14:25.21 | roylaprattep | who did the stretch to buster dist-upgrade? went well? |
| 14:25.39 | roylaprattep | i just did the jessie to stretch dist-upgrade haha, dont know if i want to do the buster right now too |
| 14:25.46 | greycat | Thousands of people have upgraded to buster, I would guess. |
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| 14:26.07 | jelly | might as well do it right now instead of getting used to stretch |
| 14:26.18 | roylaprattep | yeah |
| 14:26.21 | roylaprattep | i think so |
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| 14:26.33 | roylaprattep | gonna do a clonezilla image then go with it |
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| 14:27.12 | hans_ | didn't expect debian stable to run the very latest version of php, 7.3 |
| 14:27.38 | roylaprattep | even stretch have php7 |
| 14:27.46 | hans_ | is debian security team still managing the php packages, or are they just mirroring upstream and letting the upstream guys deal with security? |
| 14:28.28 | themill | both |
| 14:28.31 | greycat | stretch has php 7.0, and buster has php 7.3 |
| 14:28.43 | roylaprattep | yes, but at least it have php7 :P |
| 14:28.45 | hans_ | (upstream is no longer maintaining 7.0, it's EOL) |
| 14:28.47 | roylaprattep | and not php5 |
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| 14:29.35 | roylaprattep | i heard that buster doesnt use ethX anymore? |
| 14:29.52 | greycat | Not officially, but if you upgrade to buster it *might* continue to work. |
| 14:30.07 | greycat | New installs of stretch or buster use the new-style interface names. |
| 14:30.18 | roylaprattep | stretch still support it, but i heard buster removes it completely |
| 14:30.31 | greycat | buster didn't "remove" it, but officially declares it to be unsupported |
| 14:30.36 | roylaprattep | ok |
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| 14:31.06 | roylaprattep | is there a guide to switch my if name? |
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| 14:31.26 | greycat | https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#migrate-interface-names |
| 14:31.32 | roylaprattep | thx! |
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| 14:36.09 | roylaprattep | pretty easy to switch |
| 14:36.19 | roylaprattep | delete the persistent file then modify config files |
| 14:36.36 | roylaprattep | delete, reboot, modify |
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| 14:37.45 | hans_ | what the frick does this mean? [ 24.451365] random: 7 urandom warning(s) missed due to ratelimiting |
| 14:37.54 | uRock | Is there a repo for Veracrypt that anyone knows of or is installing from source the only way? |
| 14:38.38 | greycat | hans_: 7 lines were omitted from the log because they were all clustered together and looked really spammy |
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| 14:39.32 | hans_ | seems to me like the limit for urandom was 0 though https://i.imgur.com/2gz2UKN.png |
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| 14:44.10 | pyfgcr | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:44.31 | pyfgcr | I'm now trying to understand how udev handles the keyboard |
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| 14:46.45 | greycat | hans_: Hmm, I just downloaded ubutu 18.04's sudo package and extracted it, and it looks like their /etc/sudoers has the same secure_path= that Debian's does. So I would *expect* sudo -s on Ubuntu to change PATH just like Debian's does, unless the local sysadmin has altered it. |
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| 14:58.07 | uRock | went ahead and installed from Veracrypt from source. |
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| 14:59.27 | hans_ | why is popularity-contest opt-in instead of opt-out ? most people will just take the default setting without caring, and those who actually do care will take the option they want, but the option for those who don't really care should be the option most beneficial to deiban imo |
| 14:59.45 | uRock | for privacy |
| 15:00.26 | uRock | the number of people I've seen crying about ubuntu having the default to share that data.... |
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| 15:01.06 | hans_ | .. doesn't provide any real privacy anyway, debian could easily gather all the download statistics server-sided |
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| 15:01.16 | hans_ | (same for ubuntu) |
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| 15:01.49 | uRock | agreed |
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| 15:01.55 | greycat | hans_: there is still an assumption that LOTS of people install from physical media, not from a network |
| 15:02.10 | themill | and debian does not operate the mirrors |
| 15:02.29 | ayekat | people may also use an intermediary caching archive, and distribute packages from there onto multiple machines |
| 15:03.13 | hans_ | ayekat, yeah, that provides some real privacy, when their own cache just downloads everything anyway |
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| 15:03.47 | ayekat | hans_: I'm not talking about privacy, I'm talking about server-side statistics |
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| 15:04.06 | greycat | the inaccuracy thereof |
| 15:04.13 | ayekat | also, for opt-in, I guess it's just less of a headache - whoever is in wants to be in, and nobody will complain |
| 15:05.48 | ayekat | i.e. fewer non-technical issues that debian maintainers have to deal with :-) |
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| 15:06.24 | hans_ | hrm k |
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| 15:08.57 | ooAoo | hello |
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| 15:09.19 | uRock | its a trap |
| 15:09.50 | ooAoo | anyone here deal with grub2 before? |
| 15:10.02 | ooAoo | enable password protection etc |
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| 15:12.06 | deleuze6 | greycat: I think I might have installed from physical media once, back in the nineties |
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| 15:12.47 | deleuze6 | even then it might have been a 'businesscard' installation; my memory is hazy |
| 15:12.52 | gvth | Hi. When I just tried to remove EXIF-metadata from a pdf document with exiftool, the application printed that edits would be reversible. Do you folks know of a way to ultimately and irreversibly remove metadata from documents like PDFs, JPGs and others? |
| 15:12.53 | greycat | it's more common in certain countries |
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| 15:13.50 | deleuze6 | greycat: that certainly makes sense, although SSL and debian support for SSL have both improved a lot |
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| 15:17.29 | Habbie | gvth, the exiftool docs answer that question at https://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/TagNames/PDF.html |
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| 15:19.24 | gvth | Habbie: thanks |
| 15:19.54 | f-a | I have received this attachment: IMG_9508.HEIC [image/heic, base64, 1.6M] |
| 15:20.13 | f-a | how do I open it on Debian (I still have to update to stable, to be fair) |
| 15:20.28 | AlpacaFace | SerajewelKS : we spoke yesterday about openvpn vs tinc. This is my other box. Figured out a good simple config for the debian openvpn terminal to keep from timing out and to reconnect on network loss. I commented out 'persist-tun' and used 'keepalive 10 120'. Also, with xfce, I have it configured to blank the display when laptop lid is closed (not suspend). This was causing the inactivity timeout for |
| 15:20.30 | f-a | tried sxiv, qupzilla, chromium, gimp... no success |
| 15:20.32 | greycat | save it to a file, run "file" to get a first guess what it is |
| 15:20.34 | AlpacaFace | some reason, and apparently openvpn has problems reconnecting with a persistent tunnel. In case you or someone else wants to know.. |
| 15:20.59 | f-a | greycat: IMG_9508.HEIC: ISO Media |
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| 15:22.47 | greycat | google's giving me some results for "debian heic image", albeit none of them actually say Debian |
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| 15:25.38 | greycat | ,v imagemagick |
| 15:25.39 | judd | Package: imagemagick on amd64 -- jessie: 8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u12; jessie-security: 8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u16; stretch: 8:6.9.7.4+dfsg-11+deb9u6; stretch-proposed-updates: 8:6.9.7.4+dfsg-11+deb9u7; stretch-security: 8:6.9.7.4+dfsg-11+deb9u7; bullseye: 8:6.9.10.23+dfsg-2.1; buster: 8:6.9.10.23+dfsg-2.1; sid: 8:6.9.10.23+dfsg-2.1 |
| 15:26.15 | greycat | if this one random slackware forum thread is to be believed, the buster version of IM may support decoding HEIF/HEIC files, but the stretch version may not |
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| 15:27.36 | f-a | greycat: thanks for the tip, I am pretty amazed/mad when I see solutions like "just upload it to $cloud_service" |
| 15:27.55 | greycat | also #914120 |
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| 15:28.08 | greycat | ... |
| 15:28.11 | greycat | ,bug 914120 |
| 15:28.12 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/914120 in src:imagemagick (closed, patch): «imagemagick: Enable HEIF/HEIC image format support»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2018-11-19; last modified: 2019-02-04. |
| 15:29.44 | f-a | then next question would be "why is Apple pushing this format", but I'll refrain from OT |
| 15:30.23 | greycat | apparently it gives a really high compression ratio, which they need because they want to use 16 quntillion pixels |
| 15:30.27 | greycat | quintillion |
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| 15:31.34 | f-a | I am happy Cartier Bresson died before witnessing the digital frenzy |
| 15:32.05 | f-a | changes sources to buster |
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| 15:33.22 | greycat | So how come judd triggered for 08:19 themill> Fun #857228 but not for me? Does judd just like themill better? |
| 15:33.23 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/857228 in guake (open, unreproducible, moreinfo): «Fwd: guake: toggle shorcut (F12 by default) not working in Wayland»; severity: normal; opened: 2017-03-08; last modified: 2019-03-08. |
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| 15:34.06 | themill | Probably a knob that needs hitting somewhere |
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| 15:39.37 | SuperGamba | f-a I supect H.C.B. would probably love mobile photo... quoting him, "I hate all those enormous reflex photocameras with all those bulky lenses..I prefer smallest possible camera". I suspect his eye could have captured the same emotions with any camera, it' s the eye for the moment not the gear that makes the artist |
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| 15:43.00 | f-a | SuperGamba: indeed. I was referring to MP inflation though, he didn't give much about sharpnessf |
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| 15:49.22 | SerajewelKS | for AWS machines, is it recommended to wait until the buster AMI is ready before upgrading to buster (to let them sort out any critical bugs) or should it be safe to upgrade today? |
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| 15:50.46 | Mathisen | SerajewelKS, well if that is mostly upp to you. if you got your super important service running there.. dont.. if not.. why not feel lucky :) |
| 15:50.49 | themill | greycat: should be fixed now |
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| 15:51.49 | greycat | cool. what was it, [1-8] instead of [1-9] in a regex? |
| 15:51.50 | poosh | HI there fellOS |
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| 15:51.53 | SerajewelKS | one thing in particular that i note is that section 5.1.5 of the release notes must be handled differently on the existing AMI. the interface names are ethN, but none of the usual mechanisms to use the "old" interface names are present. |
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| 15:52.15 | SerajewelKS | e.g. there's no 70-persistent-net.rules or 99-default.link or 50-virtio-kernel-names.link |
| 15:52.20 | SerajewelKS | so i'm not sure what's renaming the interfaces |
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| 15:52.52 | poosh | I blame systemD |
| 15:53.14 | SerajewelKS | the systemd links that would do this aren't active |
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| 15:53.59 | poosh | you cant never be sure with systemD |
| 15:54.21 | SuperGamba | f-a: I feel you :D |
| 15:55.13 | poosh | 1st rule of systemD "if systemD fails. Restart sytem D |
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| 15:56.12 | poosh | enless loop hoy |
| 15:56.16 | poosh | enless loop ahoy |
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| 16:02.03 | centrix | Do I have to fiddle around with ssd to make squid authenticate users using kerberos (Deb10)? |
| 16:02.08 | centrix | sssd |
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| 16:04.47 | jhutchins_wk1 | SerajewelKS: Not sure if this is relevant, but the NIC naming is handled by the kernel now. |
| 16:05.12 | poosh | how is debian kernel moving along? |
| 16:06.47 | jhutchins_wk1 | poosh: It's not a separate development. We use the linux kernel. |
| 16:06.54 | poosh | its time linus be droped out of the equation |
| 16:07.19 | poosh | maybe google will open source fuchia |
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| 16:07.32 | azeem | what, it's BSD |
| 16:08.37 | *** join/#debian immu (~immu@2001:8f8:1821:8cf1:c3d7:d7c:48f8:da48) |
| 16:09.47 | poosh | fuchia + gnome 3 + systemD will make next debian bulleye right on the money :) |
| 16:10.13 | azeem | can you manybe stay on-topic? |
| 16:10.19 | azeem | maybe* |
| 16:10.35 | poosh | i mirght |
| 16:10.42 | azeem | thanks, appreciated |
| 16:11.07 | immu | how easy is to install nvidia drivers on debian |
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| 16:11.51 | poosh | harder then installing AMD drivers |
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| 16:12.06 | immu | in ubuntu you just click and you are done |
| 16:12.15 | immu | but i want to test debain |
| 16:12.23 | azeem | !nvidia |
| 16:12.23 | dpkg | Where possible, Nvidia graphic processing units are supported using the open source <nouveau> driver on Debian systems by default. To install the proprietary "nvidia" driver, see https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers or ask me about <nvidia dkms>, <nvidia legacy>; installing this directly from nvidia.com (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia on irc.freenode.net. |
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| 16:12.34 | poosh | !mad |
| 16:12.34 | dpkg | rumour has it, mad is Rob Leslie's MPEG Audio Decoder, GPL, at http://www.mars.org/home/rob/proj/mpeg/ |
| 16:12.38 | poosh | !amd |
| 16:12.38 | dpkg | Advanced Micro Devices is a semiconductor manufacturer. For support of ATI/AMD graphics hardware, ask me about <ati>. See also <amd64>, <coolnquiet>, <k7>. |
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| 16:13.00 | poosh | !coolnquit |
| 16:13.15 | poosh | !coolnquiet |
| 16:13.15 | dpkg | Cool'n'Quiet is an AMD CPU frequency scaling feature available on server and desktop processors, introduced with the Athlon 64. Supported by the k8-powernow driver since Linux 2.6.18, ask me about <cpufreq>. Cool'n'Quiet may be disabled by default on some systems. See also <speedstep>, <power saving>. |
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| 16:13.52 | jmcnaught | poosh: see the /topic for examples of how to privately message the bot |
| 16:13.53 | poosh | this boot is pit of information |
| 16:14.13 | poosh | yes jermey |
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| 16:17.31 | poosh | gentoo channel is a REAL linux OS channel |
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| 16:18.58 | Akuw | after use "ssh-copy-id user@192.168.1.1" what is the path where keys are copied ? |
| 16:19.43 | jmcnaught | Akuw: ~/.ssh/authorized_keys |
| 16:20.29 | Akuw | but there is not such autorized_keys file |
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| 16:20.42 | jmcnaught | Akuw: are you looking on 192.168.1.1? |
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| 16:21.08 | jmcnaught | ssh-copy-id copies your local SSH public key to the remote server ~/.ssh/authorized_keys |
| 16:21.21 | Akuw | yes |
| 16:21.28 | Akuw | is another server |
| 16:21.32 | Akuw | but there is not such autorized_keys file |
| 16:22.02 | Mathisen | Akuw, just to clearify location is /home/user/.ssh/ |
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| 16:22.10 | Akuw | yes |
| 16:22.24 | jmcnaught | Akuw: is the remote a Debian system running openssh? |
| 16:23.02 | LtL | Akuw: did you run ssh-keygen first? on the local box |
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| 16:23.57 | Akuw | yes, sshd |
| 16:24.22 | Akuw | yes |
| 16:25.26 | Mathisen | atleast for me i have my in keys there.. |
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| 16:25.43 | Mathisen | so you must have done something strange... or looking at wrong place |
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| 16:52.59 | Zesk | Hello, is there anyone willing to share his preseed.cfg with lvm configuration? I'm failing everytime to deploy a vm with lvm, it seems to not take into account d-i partman-auto/expert_recipe string |
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| 17:12.08 | aZz7eCh | hi guys. running debian 9. was there recently an update to libreoffice/calc? out of no where I can not use any of our spreadsheets for work because when i try and insert lines or paste new data in, it breaks all formulas .. any pointers on working out where things have gone wrong? |
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| 17:12.39 | aZz7eCh | or how to roll back calc to previous version that was stable / fine all this time |
| 17:14.01 | ratrace | aZz7eCh: yes there was, a security fix; see apt-get changelog libreoffice |
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| 17:19.06 | aZz7eCh | 18 june ? |
| 17:19.57 | greycat | !snapshot |
| 17:19.57 | dpkg | http://snapshot.debian.org/ is an archive of almost all Debian packages uploaded since 2005, including those removed from the official archives because they were very buggy, unusable, broken, vulnerable or in some way non-free. This service replaces snapshot.debian.net. http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100412 |
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| 17:20.46 | luna | apt 1.9 will be released in October and apt 2.0 in 2020 |
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| 17:21.35 | ratrace | aZz7eCh: yes but it took time until it reached stable on Jul 16th, so the update was available few days ago |
| 17:21.55 | Zesk | Do you know how to read this kind of file (with good formatting) ? https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/installation-guide/blob/master/en/using-d-i/modules/partman.xml |
| 17:22.16 | greycat | There's an #xml channel. |
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| 17:22.58 | Zesk | Thanks, will asj there later. |
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| 17:28.36 | rain1 | https://wiki.debian.org/chroot |
| 17:28.40 | aZz7eCh | is it even possible to roll back the update? |
| 17:28.45 | aZz7eCh | sorry, @ratrace |
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| 17:28.53 | rain1 | can someone help me understand the section Mounting pseudo filesystems |
| 17:28.56 | rain1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:28.57 | greycat | manually download and install the deb files from !snapshot |
| 17:29.04 | greycat | that's why I triggered that factoid |
| 17:29.12 | rain1 | what are these 2 lines and where do they go? proc on /proc type proc (rw), sysfs on /sys sysfs kind (rw) |
| 17:29.20 | aZz7eCh | oh sorry didn't realise that was aimed at me. will follow |
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| 17:29.43 | greycat | !chroot |
| 17:29.43 | dpkg | To chroot into your Debian system boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2). Mount your root filesystem with "mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target" and make /dev, /proc and /sys usable with "mount --rbind --make-rslave /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys". You can then chroot into the system with "chroot /target". |
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| 17:32.01 | n-iCe | is there a complete iso nonfree? or only netinstall |
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| 17:33.15 | greycat | Once upon a time I tried to point the "firmware images" factoid at the appropriate place in the directory tree so that you could get to any release and any size of image by following the right links. |
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| 17:33.45 | greycat | People decided that was too simple and too good, so someone pointed it back and the one specific place three levels down the tree. |
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| 17:34.11 | greycat | So, if you want to get to DIFFERENT images, first you have to go about three levels up, and then you can start to see how it's laid out. |
| 17:34.55 | greycat | Meanwhile, every single release-named firmware images factoid still points to that SAME stupid place even though it's completely dead wrong for older releases. |
| 17:34.59 | posh | im installing bullsese |
| 17:35.09 | posh | bullseye |
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| 17:37.12 | xcorshinex | guys do you feel a bit laggy on deb10? |
| 17:37.31 | EoflaOEViceCity | n-iCe: I think the nonfree ISOs are only netinstalls. |
| 17:37.43 | xcorshinex | I opened 5-6 tasks and sometimes it takes 8secs to operate |
| 17:37.51 | somiaj | posh: unless you are testing the installer, standard way to install testing is to install a minimial stable system and dist-upgrade. |
| 17:37.51 | n-iCe | EoflaOEViceCity yeah |
| 17:38.02 | greycat | xcorshinex: with what I do, and how I do it, there's virtually no difference at all between stretch and buster. But other people's setups and application loads may be dramatically different from mine. |
| 17:38.06 | posh | sparky linux just release new version based on buster |
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| 17:39.10 | EoflaOEViceCity | n-iCe: So you have to download a GUI in the installation stage |
| 17:39.22 | ratrace | xcorshinex: what greycat said, for me too. |
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| 17:40.10 | greycat | EoflaOEViceCity: Your statement is incorrect. As I explained a couple minutes ago, there's ALL KINDS of other image sizes, but the factoid that people want you to read doesn't point you to them. |
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| 17:40.35 | EoflaOEViceCity | greycat: Ok. Haven't checked. |
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| 17:41.26 | greycat | for some reason the iso-bd/ directory has an "edu" image though... not sure what's up with that |
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| 17:43.47 | Efrit | Hello |
| 17:44.48 | Efrit | I was using peacefully my awesome Debian 10 Buster on my desktop that I installed a few days ago. |
| 17:45.27 | somiaj | greycat: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/ -- most likely |
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| 17:45.34 | EmleyMoor | Congratulations Efrit |
| 17:45.47 | Efrit | Ty |
| 17:46.27 | greycat | somiaj: yeah, I've heard of it, but... why is that in the http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/10.0.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-bd/ directory |
| 17:46.46 | Efrit | But today, after I tried to copy a ~46 GiB file on an external HDD, which failed because of an I/O error |
| 17:46.53 | greycat | the sibling directories (iso-cd and iso-dvd) do not have the -edu- image |
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| 17:47.48 | Efrit | I was unable to create a directory on the root of my home directory. It was saying that it was in read-only mode. |
| 17:48.30 | Efrit | So I tried to disconnect and reconnect to my session. |
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| 17:49.10 | Efrit | But after I type my credentials and Enter, I was immediately disconnected. |
| 17:49.19 | EmleyMoor | Efrit: please try to type your problem as one message |
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| 17:49.32 | Efrit | Oh ok |
| 17:49.34 | JordiGH | Does buster really have incompatible versions of npm and nodejs packaged? |
| 17:49.43 | JordiGH | Running npm complains that nodejs is at the wrong version. |
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| 17:50.03 | Efrit | Itâs just that I wanted to explain in which I went to came up to my current issue. |
| 17:50.05 | ratrace | Efrit: sounds like hardware issue; ideally you'd look into logs and check for kernel komplaining about i/o issues |
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| 17:50.35 | Efrit | Thatâs the problem, I rebooted but I have scary error |
| 17:51.22 | Efrit | I canât copy/paste since itâs in a terminal error, is it fine if I post a screenshot of the error I get? |
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| 17:51.33 | EmleyMoor | Try to login as root, umount /home, mount /home, and if successful try as yourself again |
| 17:51.58 | Efrit | Itâs written that the root account is locked |
| 17:52.13 | EoflaOEViceCity | Efrit: Upload it to imgur then post the link to see the exact error. |
| 17:52.50 | EmleyMoor | If you can type the salient point of the error message that may help, or post a screenshot on imgur |
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| 17:53.10 | somiaj | greycat: yea seems strange, though maybe they can fit the whole pureblend on a single bd, and craeted it for a single disk deployment. |
| 17:54.34 | somiaj | seems they only have a firmware image too, probably just some single image they share to schools. |
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| 17:54.41 | Efrit | https://framapic.org/QzQMvf0pgNiy/TbpNqqsIXaGN.jpg |
| 17:55.02 | Efrit | I hope itâs not too hard to read. |
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| 17:55.15 | somiaj | Efrit: did you create a root password when you installed? |
| 17:55.19 | Efrit | No |
| 17:55.35 | somiaj | that is why, the root account is locked if you do that. You can use sudo from the user you created, 'sudo -l' to login as root |
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| 17:55.56 | somiaj | you will have to both create a root password, and unlock password login for root (maybe something you don't want to do) to be able to login as root without sudo. |
| 17:56.01 | somiaj | I would personally just use sudo. |
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| 17:56.07 | jim | EmleyMoor, if he's logged into his personal account, then files in his home dir might be busy, and therefore the /home partition might be busy |
| 17:56.42 | jim | so if /home is separate, you might not be able to unmount it |
| 17:56.54 | greycat | somiaj: you mean sudo -i |
| 17:57.00 | Efrit | But how I can access to a console from here? |
| 17:57.02 | greycat | sudo -l is "list" |
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| 17:57.53 | jim | python question... is there automation set up in debian for packaging python modules? |
| 17:57.54 | somiaj | oh yea, sudo -i (for somereason I was thinking -l for login) |
| 17:57.57 | greycat | Efrit: while you were out, 13:55 somiaj> you will have to both create a root password, and unlock password login for root (maybe something you don't want to do) to be able to login as root without sudo. |
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| 17:58.07 | greycat | ... are you KIDDING ME |
| 17:58.18 | somiaj | ahh -l is --list, while -i is --login |
| 17:58.24 | Efrit | All I seem to be able to do is to press ENTER |
| 17:58.37 | greycat | Efrit: we keep telling you things but you keep BEING GONE at the time |
| 17:58.41 | Efrit | When I try to type any other character, nothing appear |
| 17:58.53 | greycat | I'm done playing peek-a-boo with you. I can't take that. |
| 17:58.57 | Efrit | Yes sorry I have connection issue |
| 17:59.02 | somiaj | jim: packaging python modules into .deb? Maybe check out debian helper (dh) python tools. |
| 17:59.09 | Efrit | My wi-fi isnât stable |
| 17:59.27 | somiaj | jim: dh-python is package name. |
| 17:59.47 | jim | oh ok, and they're plugins for debhelper? |
| 17:59.48 | Efrit | Iâll use my 4G connection |
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| 18:00.00 | Efrit | It will be more stable hopefully |
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| 18:00.24 | somiaj | maybe we have an xy-problem, what is your actual goal. If it is to become root use 'sudo -i' if it is to run a program as root use 'sudo programname' |
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| 18:01.22 | Efrit | somiaj, the issue is that I donât know how to access a console from there |
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| 18:01.34 | Efrit | Where I can enter commands |
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| 18:02.12 | jim | Efrit, maybe it'd be a good thing to get your usual connection to be more stable |
| 18:02.15 | Efrit | When I press ENTER, it displays me the same error over and over again |
| 18:02.29 | jim | what error? |
| 18:02.58 | Efrit | I tried jim, I spent some hours trying to fix it but I was never been able to. |
| 18:03.52 | Efrit | Itâs at the end of the screenshot I posted earlier, starting from "Reloading system" |
| 18:04.18 | jim | Efrit, could you repost the link? |
| 18:04.18 | somiaj | hit enter, it should put you in an emergency console and you can fix your /home filesystem to mount properly. |
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| 18:04.56 | somiaj | ahh, so maybe this is an issue with emergency mode and not having a root account. In this case get a recovery system and fix it from that |
| 18:05.12 | somiaj | you can use the isntaller or a live system to mount, chroot into your install and fix the issue with your /home partition so it mounts correctly. |
| 18:05.17 | jim | yeah I really don't know what your situation really is, and evidently some other folks do |
| 18:07.23 | jim | you might be able to put together a chroot, then add the root user from that (careful though, make sure first you don't have it by looking at /etc/passwd) |
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| 18:08.17 | Efrit | Ok, I just tried to in the recovery mode in the Grub menu after rebooting but I get the same error |
| 18:08.42 | Efrit | Iâll try to use a USB Live image instead |
| 18:08.44 | somiaj | boot into a live system and manually recover this |
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| 18:10.44 | SerajewelKS | jhutchins_wk: the weird thing though is that if i ask udev what it wants to name the interface, it's not eth0 |
| 18:10.47 | somiaj | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=802211 btw |
| 18:10.48 | jhutchins_wk | I'd say it's pretty likely the partition with /home on it is full. |
| 18:10.48 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/802211 in systemd (forwarded, fixed-upstream): «systemd: rescue.service fails if root password is not set, needs sulogin --force»; severity: important; opened: 2015-10-18; last modified: 2019-01-19. |
| 18:11.03 | SerajewelKS | jhutchins_wk: so something somewhere along the line is changing the interface name to eth0 but i can't figure out what |
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| 18:11.45 | greycat | SerajewelKS: you've done the obvious things like grep -r eth0 /etc ? |
| 18:12.22 | SerajewelKS | greycat: yep, only (uncommented) reference is /etc/network/interfaces |
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| 18:12.43 | SerajewelKS | oh hmm it's the kernel parameter |
| 18:12.45 | greycat | SerajewelKS: what does cat /proc/cmdline say? |
| 18:12.52 | SerajewelKS | greycat: literally just checked that |
| 18:13.00 | SerajewelKS | "net.ifnames=0" will do it i suppose |
| 18:13.04 | greycat | yes |
| 18:13.43 | SerajewelKS | as long as that's still supported in buster i guess i don't have much to worry about |
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| 18:14.54 | greycat | it's not officially supported. the release notes say "The net.ifnames=0 kernel commandline option might also work for systems with only one network interface (of a given type)." |
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| 18:15.31 | SerajewelKS | right. the alternative (the "proper" name) includes the MAC address |
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| 18:18.33 | SerajewelKS | is there a supported way to rename specific interfaces? at least so WAN interfaces could have a consistent name across all machines instead of enxNNNNNNNNNNNN? |
| 18:18.50 | rain1 | how do i change the screen lock settings? |
| 18:19.20 | SerajewelKS | rain1: depends on the desktop environment |
| 18:20.05 | greycat | the supported way of naming interfaces in buster is with systemd .link files |
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| 18:21.04 | somiaj | yup, still unsure why they removed using udev, what was it about that option that needed to go? |
| 18:21.09 | SerajewelKS | greycat: got it, thanks |
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| 18:21.39 | SerajewelKS | presumably the udev way is not systemd-enough |
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| 18:26.23 | JordiGH | So guys, what's going on with the npm and nodejs versions on buster? |
| 18:27.07 | somiaj | were they removed? |
| 18:27.09 | somiaj | ,v npm |
| 18:27.10 | judd | Package: npm on amd64 -- jessie: 1.4.21+ds-2; stretch-backports: 5.8.0+ds6-2~bpo9+1; bullseye: 5.8.0+ds6-4; buster: 5.8.0+ds6-4; sid: 5.8.0+ds6-4 |
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| 18:27.23 | JordiGH | No, they're both tehre. |
| 18:27.23 | somiaj | ,v nodejs |
| 18:27.24 | judd | Package: nodejs on amd64 -- jessie: 0.10.29~dfsg-2; stretch: 4.8.2~dfsg-1; stretch-backports: 8.11.1~dfsg-2~bpo9+1; bullseye: 10.15.2~dfsg-2; buster: 10.15.2~dfsg-2; sid: 10.15.2~dfsg-2; experimental: 12.1.0~dfsg-1 |
| 18:27.31 | JordiGH | But npm complains the nodejs version is incompatible. |
| 18:27.38 | JordiGH | wtf? Did Debian package two incompatible versions? |
| 18:28.04 | somiaj | JordiGH: I would double check the versions, does npm -- version and nodejs --version match what judd said? |
| 18:28.18 | somiaj | could you have just mixxed versions installed, maybe check the output of 'apt policy npm' and 'apt policy nodejs' |
| 18:28.34 | somiaj | also run 'which npm' and 'which nodejs' and make sure that you aren't calling some locally installed version vs the buster version. |
| 18:28.42 | Habbie | npm WARN npm npm does not support Node.js v10.15.2 |
| 18:28.43 | SerajewelKS | if you ever updated npm using npm then you have a local version as well |
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| 18:28.48 | greycat | use "type" instead of "which" |
| 18:28.49 | Habbie | this is buster |
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| 18:28.58 | Habbie | with no weird changes |
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| 18:30.01 | JordiGH | http://paste.debian.net/1092648/ |
| 18:30.04 | somiaj | JordiGH: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=904422 |
| 18:30.05 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/904422 in npm (open): «npm: complains about too-new nodejs»; severity: important; opened: 2018-07-24; last modified: 2019-02-12. |
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| 18:30.44 | somiaj | the report basically says this is just a warning and didn't constitute an rc bug, but I do not see any resolution. |
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| 18:31.54 | JordiGH | So the node developers are lying about how this is an incompatibility? |
| 18:32.06 | JordiGH | I mean, I wouldn't put it past them. |
| 18:32.13 | JordiGH | js dev is clownshoes. |
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| 18:32.56 | somiaj | well I thought nodejs was removed from stretch due to 'changing to quickly to provide security support for a frozen system', so I was surprised to see it in buster. |
| 18:33.07 | greycat | npm is a completely separate project from node.js, isn't it? |
| 18:33.13 | somiaj | I don't use this, so no clue what is going on, but it sounds like this is just a warning and you should be able to use npm just fine. |
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| 18:33.52 | somiaj | might have to wait/see if they put newer versions (in this case npm 6) in buster-backports |
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| 18:36.00 | SerajewelKS | npm can self-update as well, unless the debian package removes this |
| 18:36.30 | SerajewelKS | and there's the official nodesource debian repo, which is of course not official debian, but i've used it with success |
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| 18:37.54 | somiaj | yea, my undestanding was nodejs is still changing so quickly that the frozen version in debian wasn't viable, though maybe it is slowing down and just needs to have a bit more attention |
| 18:38.17 | somiaj | in the debian packages that is, but anyways, seems what JordiGH found is a known bug, and wasn't deemed an rc-bug by the matainers-developers |
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| 18:41.24 | JordiGH | SerajewelKS: Yeah, I knew about that, but when I saw that Debian 10 had not-mesozoic node packages I figured maybe something got better. |
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| 18:41.58 | SerajewelKS | JordiGH: yeah but they'll be out of date in two months anyway |
| 18:42.22 | SerajewelKS | not debian's fault, node just moves pretty fast. it seems more reasonable to use node's own packages. |
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| 18:49.32 | centrix | I have installed Deb 10 + samba 4. wbinfo -P or -p works. wbinfo -i userXYZ works. smbclient using my domain credentials works. Squid 4, using winbind does not. Any clues, please? Thank you. |
| 18:50.07 | centrix | net ads join|testjoin works. |
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| 18:52.26 | somiaj | centrix: a samba specific channel maybe able to give more help if no one responds here. |
| 18:52.29 | Efrit | I am currently reading about chroot while downloading and copying the Live Debian Image |
| 18:53.03 | Efrit | jim, I didnât see your message earlier about the screeshot URL, so here it is: |
| 18:53.06 | Efrit | https://framapic.org/QzQMvf0pgNiy/TbpNqqsIXaGN.jpg |
| 18:53.11 | somiaj | Efrit: in this case you can probably just mount your root file system, then edit /etc/fstab to get past the error |
| 18:53.26 | dan_kelly | There are a whole bunch of packages that exist in stretch and SID are just missing from the Buster's repos. About one third of my debian system is downloded .DEB package. |
| 18:53.32 | somiaj | do you know why the error is happeneing, did you copy down the uuid wrong. |
| 18:53.39 | JordiGH | SerajewelKS: Well, I use Debian because I liked outdated software. |
| 18:53.57 | Efrit | I think it happened because the file was too big |
| 18:54.02 | Efrit | But I am not sure |
| 18:54.04 | somiaj | dan_kelly: there is often a reason a package is removed from buster, and you should look into that as opposed to installing packages for stretch (safer) or sid (can be very unsafe) in buster. |
| 18:54.05 | JordiGH | Updating every two years is already starting to feel too fast for my poor, old aching bones. |
| 18:54.17 | Efrit | It was ~45 GiB |
| 18:54.45 | somiaj | JordiGH: could be worth waiting until the end of oldstable support (this gives 3 years) and by the time you upgrade, there maybe more stuff in backports then upgading near the release date. |
| 18:55.03 | somiaj | (also note due to LTS you could use a debian release for 5 years reasonablly, though some stuff on desktops do have secuirty support dropped) |
| 18:55.14 | somiaj | Efrit: what file was that big? |
| 18:55.24 | Efrit | A video |
| 18:55.38 | centrix | somiaj, Good, I'll give it a try. |
| 18:55.40 | somiaj | still don't see why that would stop /home from mounting |
| 18:56.08 | somiaj | centrix: #samba on freenode |
| 18:56.27 | Efrit | Well thatâs the only weird behaviour that happened before the error |
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| 18:56.55 | jhutchins_wk | somiaj: "File system contains errors, remounting read only"? |
| 18:58.03 | dan_kelly | @somiaj The Busher repos are thin even with newer packages. |
| 18:58.17 | centrix | somiaj, #squid too, but no answers for a long time. #samba too. But thanks. |
| 18:58.24 | JordiGH | somiaj: Hell yeah, 5-year-buster, maybe I'll do this. |
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| 19:00.04 | centrix | somiaj, I think of krb5 + squid as a better choice. I'll see. |
| 19:00.21 | centrix | Deb10 as a better choice too :) |
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| 19:07.19 | Efrit | I downloaded the ISO from this URL: https://www.debian.org/CD/live/ |
| 19:08.03 | Efrit | But when I boot on it and choose to try Debian, I come in an ash console |
| 19:08.21 | Efrit | The prompt is: (initramf) |
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| 19:09.26 | Efrit | Is it normal? Shouldât I get to a graphical environment (GNOME in my case)? |
| 19:10.06 | Efrit | I used the DD mode of Rufus in Windows 7 to copy the ISO on my USB key |
| 19:10.45 | Battaglin | server or desktop? |
| 19:10.55 | Efrit | Desktop |
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| 19:11.29 | Ede|Popede | !rufus |
| 19:11.30 | dpkg | rufus is a tool that can be used to make bootable USB devices under Windows. It is not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>. |
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| 19:11.46 | Ede|Popede | no idea if rufus does more than simply throw the iso to the disk |
| 19:11.46 | Efrit | Oh |
| 19:12.02 | Efrit | Ok Iâll retry |
| 19:12.21 | Ede|Popede | but i remember "diskcopy"... |
| 19:12.28 | diogenes_ | Efrit, try etcher. |
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| 19:12.42 | jmcnaught | !win32diskimager |
| 19:12.42 | dpkg | win32diskimager is much more reliable than <unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/ . Adjust the file mask from *.img to *.* if it doesn't show Debian .iso images. See <usb install> and <install debian> for further details. |
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| 19:14.55 | alkisg | rufus has a dd mode, doesn't it? |
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| 19:16.02 | foul_owl | Where does ProxyCommand run for ssh? Is it on the ProxyServer or "my laptop" ? |
| 19:16.39 | SerajewelKS | foul_owl: it runs locally |
| 19:17.28 | rappscallion | hi there, i just upgraded from stretch to buster, and now my mouse is super fast when i use my trackpoint (its okay if i use the touchpad). i am using xorg with just a window manger. could somebody give me a hint how i can adjust this? i tried xset -m and lxinput, both dont seem to have any effect. |
| 19:17.34 | SerajewelKS | foul_owl: note if you want to jump through another ssh server then you want -J instead |
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| 19:20.35 | rappscallion | *xset m |
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| 19:22.06 | foul_owl | Thank you! |
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| 19:30.19 | a-l-e | hi. i have a debian system with xfce. is there a way to get synamptic to ask for sudo rights instead of su? |
| 19:30.51 | a-l-e | ... when starting from the terminal, of course : - ) |
| 19:31.00 | a-l-e | ... without starting from the terminal, of course : - ) |
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| 19:33.13 | Klaus_Dieter | just run it with sudo synaptic? |
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| 19:33.32 | a-l-e | Klaus_Dieter, how do i do that from the main menu? |
| 19:33.42 | greycat | *headdesk* |
| 19:33.50 | greycat | GUI people. Oy. |
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| 19:35.14 | Klaus_Dieter | it has been 10 years since I last used xfce - sorry I cannot tell you how you define a menu entry. However that is what you would do: create a custom menu entry that runs your command. Your command would be spawning a terminal, then in there run sudo synaptic. Maybe you could look up how the existing menu entry does this and just alter the small changes. |
| 19:35.31 | Klaus_Dieter | However the whole use case makes me think that you *might* be going about this the hard way. |
| 19:35.34 | greycat | Most likely one does it by creating a *.desktop file. |
| 19:35.48 | greycat | that seems to be the common arrangement in the last few years |
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| 19:36.31 | Klaus_Dieter | usually synaptic is used to set settings that you'd always want active. I run synaptic from my session startup files such that I won't have to execute them manually on login. Maybe something that is worth considering for you as well? |
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| 19:40.08 | a-l-e | i need synaptic to let somebody else install software. |
| 19:40.38 | greycat | why in the hell would you let other people install software on your system |
| 19:40.56 | a-l-e | ... because it's not my system? |
| 19:41.02 | jhutchins_wk | a-l-e: That sounds like a very bad idea. |
| 19:41.34 | jhutchins_wk | If someone doesn't know how to run synaptic, they shouldn't be installing software. |
| 19:42.02 | greycat | I don't know how to run synaptic. Literally never even wanted to try. |
| 19:42.08 | a-l-e | if you have better ideas, i'm open... but she will leave tomorrow for 1 1/2 weeks and will take with her a small laptop setup for the holidays... and if she misses a program she should be able to install it. |
| 19:42.20 | a-l-e | greycat, we're two... |
| 19:42.38 | a-l-e | i'm asking beceaus i don't know (exactly) how synaptic works. |
| 19:42.54 | greycat | The main thing is: it doesn't. |
| 19:42.59 | a-l-e | but it looks like the best way to manage software on debian with a GUI. |
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| 19:43.21 | greycat | It needs to run the GUI as root, which is a complete no-go under Wayland, and is only possible under X with various hacks to allow root to communicate with not-root's X server. |
| 19:43.45 | petn-randall | synaptic is completely fine for end user consumption, and also asking to let someone who owns the machine to install software without hassle is also a reasonable request. |
| 19:43.52 | a-l-e | well, i'm pretty sure that ubuntu launches things as sudo from the gui. |
| 19:44.06 | jhutchins_wk | a-l-e: ... so the best way is to open a terminal and use apt. |
| 19:44.15 | petn-randall | greycat: Didn't that bug get fixed? |
| 19:44.42 | greycat | Which bug? The one that caused it to be removed entirely? That was fixed by generating an error message under Wayland, and doing glob-knows-what under X. |
| 19:45.11 | a-l-e | yes, jhutchins_wk, if it's too complex to setup the gui, it will be "sudo apt install blah blah". |
| 19:45.21 | greycat | ,bug 818366 |
| 19:45.23 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/818366 in synaptic (closed): «synaptic: fails to start under Wayland»; severity: serious; opened: 2016-03-16; last modified: 2019-04-23. |
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| 19:46.06 | greycat | Ah, it starts in read-only mode if you're non-root in Wayland, apparently. |
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| 19:47.35 | coruja | a-l-e, you could define small bash aliases for apt commands and configure sudo to run apt commands without authentification (but mind security implications too) |
| 19:47.37 | a-l-e | ok, having raead a bit about gksu and pkexec i'll give up. |
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| 19:50.54 | carp_ | Hello, Ive just upgraded to Buster! First of all, thankyou so much guys for all your hard work. My computer is now sporting the soothing blue colour palette. |
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| 19:51.37 | EoflaOEViceCity | carp_ Congrats |
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| 19:53.14 | carp_ | I noticed that it was recommended to handle the upgrade using apt, and not apt-get like last time. While on Stretch, I would daily run "apt-get update" and "apt-get upgrade". Is this recommended for Buster as well? Or should I be using just "apt" now? |
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| 19:54.02 | greycat | carp_: you only need to do "apt update" one time, to get the prompt and answer it "yes", if you previously ran buster-as-testing. Otherwise, it doesn't matter. |
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| 19:55.00 | carp_ | I mean for general maintenance of my home computer in the upcoming months/years. |
| 19:55.44 | dob1 | hi, what does this partition of an usb stick means ? https://pastebin.com/RH1JtbbL I don't find any of these sdb* in /dev/ |
| 19:55.46 | greycat | carp_: use whichever you like. |
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| 19:56.10 | dob1 | how can I mount it? |
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| 19:57.47 | carp_ | greycat ok thanks for the tip. I am a nooby user as you might have guessed. I dont really understand the nuances between aptitude, apt, apt-get and stuff haha, but I guess I will continue using apt-get as before (this is what I used while on jessie and stretch). |
| 19:57.48 | dob1 | it's this Bus 001 Device 006: ID 10d6:1101 Actions Semiconductor Co., Ltd D-Wave 2GB MP4 Player / AK1025 MP3/MP4 Player |
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| 19:58.26 | dob1 | ah it's just sdb... |
| 19:58.46 | greycat | my little Sandisk music player doesn't have partitions either |
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| 19:59.10 | dob1 | I am mounting sdb, not sdb1 or 2 or whatever... it's strange |
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| 20:00.11 | cmihai | Debian 10: "vmware-workstation-15.bundle --console" errors with "User interface initialization failed. Exiting.". I'd expect ncurses-compat libs missing, tried installing libncurses5 |
| 20:01.17 | EoflaOEViceCity | What happened when you tried to install libncurses5 cmihai? |
| 20:01.30 | theluckymike | hi, im running debian stable with xorg and i3 installed, but without any full DE and somehow it turns off my monitor after some idle time. What service is doing it? |
| 20:01.59 | cmihai | EoflaOEViceCity: nothing. Nothing in logs or strace either. |
| 20:02.06 | cmihai | Normally that 'fixes it' on CentOS 7 |
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| 20:02.41 | a0z | theluckymike: look into xset |
| 20:03.36 | EoflaOEViceCity | cmihai: Did you get an error message saying that it didn't exist? Or does it say nothing when you tried "sudo apt install libncurses5"? |
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| 20:04.22 | annadane | it's something like "xset dpms off" or something, i found https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Display_Power_Management_Signaling and i wonder if permanently disabling it in debian is the same way as arch |
| 20:04.29 | theluckymike | a0z: I don't see in its man anything about power management, could you give a hint bit closer please ? |
| 20:04.38 | annadane | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Display_Power_Management_Signaling#Disabling_DPMS relevant section |
| 20:05.02 | cmihai | EoflaOEViceCity: nope, installed everything ncurses related, vmware installer still won't run. |
| 20:05.07 | theluckymike | aha, dpms section, ok will look in to it. ty |
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| 20:05.15 | rappscallion | xset -dpms turns it off |
| 20:05.22 | rappscallion | xset +dpms turns it on |
| 20:05.23 | theluckymike | ty |
| 20:05.23 | rawtaz | hi. quick questions about https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-upgrade-debian-9-stretch-to-debian-10-buster#h7-upgrade-to-debian-buster : 1) why run apt-get upgrade before apt-get dist-upgrade? i thought the latter did all of the former. 2) why apt-get instead of apt, when apt is used for most of the other things until that point? |
| 20:05.35 | annadane | but that's a temporary measure and resets, no? |
| 20:05.36 | a0z | theluckymike: just run "xset" on it's own to see options. I think you're looking for the Energy Star DPMS feature of Xorg |
| 20:06.40 | rappscallion | hi there, i just upgraded from stretch to buster, and now my mouse is super fast when i use my trackpoint (its okay if i use the touchpad). i am using xorg with just a window manger. could somebody give me a hint how i can adjust this? i tried xset -m and lxinput, both dont seem to have any effect. |
| 20:06.50 | rawtaz | ok, after doing /msg dpkg stretch->buster i see that the recommended path is apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade . i guess i shouldnt bother with the article :) |
| 20:07.05 | annadane | rawtaz, well, you should still read the release notes |
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| 20:07.24 | theluckymike | thanks annadane and a0z, quick fix found :) cheers |
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| 20:08.15 | cmihai | EoflaOEViceCity: aaand there it is. libncursesw5 is the right package. I hate bundles I can't ldd :-) |
| 20:09.26 | EoflaOEViceCity | cmihai: Can you install it then try to run VMware installer? |
| 20:10.07 | cmihai | Yup, it works now. I dug into the equivalent centos 7 and rhel8 packages (ncurses-compat-libs). Right package for Deiban is libncursesw5 not libncurses5 ;-) |
| 20:11.19 | annadane | curses! |
| 20:11.33 | Akuw | i created a public key and every time i need to login i use public key |
| 20:11.50 | Akuw | but what happen if another user want to connect without use public key |
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| 20:19.10 | rawtaz | annadane: yeah. i am/did. right *above* https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#upgrading-full there's usage of apt-get instead of apt. why? |
| 20:19.31 | rawtaz | (apt-get upgrade followed by apt full-upgrade) |
| 20:19.31 | jhutchins_wk | Akuw: If you have it configured to allow password authentication they can use that. |
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| 20:20.48 | jhutchins_wk | rawtaz: Not sure apt-get has full-upgrade. Look at the usage, is it mentioned? If not, try dist-upgrade, or use apt or aptitude (not installed by default). |
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| 20:21.24 | rawtaz | jhutchins_wk: it's more a question of why they use apt-get upgrade instead of apt upgrade :) |
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| 20:22.28 | jhutchins_wk | rawtaz: There have been releases where aptitude got stuck trying to resolve all of the depenencies, so apt-get was recommended. I believe for buster they recommend apt. |
| 20:22.34 | rawtaz | jhutchins_wk: seems like things are moving to `apt`, and it's used most of the time in that article |
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| 20:23.01 | jhutchins_wk | rawtaz: Sometimes things get rewritten for the new release and they migh miss an instance or two. |
| 20:23.01 | greycat | apt vs. apt-get makes very little difference |
| 20:23.33 | rawtaz | jhutchins_wk: yeah that might be it |
| 20:23.35 | greycat | The main difference is apt will install new dependencies on "upgrade" and apt-get will not. |
| 20:23.50 | jhutchins_wk | rawtaz: Notice that that is NOT the Debian upgrade article. |
| 20:24.02 | jhutchins_wk | !stretch -> buster |
| 20:24.08 | carp_ | rawtaz this is exactly the question i was asking just a few moments before you came into the channel. I too am wondering if it is now recommended to use "apt" instead of "apt-get" as I have been for jessie and stretch for regular maintenance. |
| 20:24.13 | jhutchins_wk | dpkg stretch->buster |
| 20:24.14 | dpkg | Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> http://deb.li/JFKc . TL;DR: In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "stretch" to "buster", remove stable-specific lines like stretch-backports. apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade. 3rd party repos like <dmo> are known to cause problems with the upgrade. |
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| 20:24.44 | greycat | carp_: as long as you know how to deal with new dependencies, it doesn't matter. They're 95% the same. |
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| 20:24.57 | jhutchins_wk | rawtaz: Two stages are recommended because full-upgrade does more critical files, and you have a chance to fix problems before going to the new kernel. |
| 20:25.22 | rawtaz | jhutchins_wk: it's those release notes im reading. i was wondering why in https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#minimal-upgrade they use apt-get instead of apt which is used in the rest of the article. but they probably just missed removing -get in that part of the article |
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| 20:26.32 | jhutchins_wk | rawtaz: Probably. Not much changes in the process from release to release. |
| 20:26.57 | rawtaz | good :) |
| 20:26.57 | jhutchins_wk | Ah, I saw your linuxconfig link. |
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| 20:29.02 | rawtaz | jhutchins_wk: i should have read the release notes before pasting an irrelevant article, my bad. |
| 20:29.28 | rawtaz | debian works too well, thats why i dont read it (and if this machine would break it's no biggie) |
| 20:29.51 | rawtaz | but now i know the release notes is the best place to get the upgrade instructions |
| 20:29.59 | Akuw | i need to send some mail from one server, using sendmail and gmail as SMTP, is that secure? |
| 20:31.27 | rawtaz | annadane: i'd use postfix but im pretty sure sendmail is secure enough for your needs, if you use the sendmail that's maintained as part of debian |
| 20:32.28 | rawtaz | annadane: sorry that wasnt meant for you |
| 20:32.30 | rawtaz | Akuw: ^ |
| 20:32.51 | Akuw | ok |
| 20:33.21 | Akuw | i am getting this when try to install sendmail " sendmail : Depende: sendmail-bin pero no va a instalarse" |
| 20:33.33 | jmcnaught | Akuw: if you plan on using gmail for delivery then you might want to check out something a lot simpler than sendmail, like msmtp-mta |
| 20:33.51 | rawtaz | good point |
| 20:33.53 | jmcnaught | Akuw: sendmail is big and complex, its config language is turing complete |
| 20:34.05 | Akuw | let me check that |
| 20:35.04 | greycat | and about as pretty as an actual turing machine implementation |
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| 20:42.01 | Efrit | Ok so after redownloading the iso file then copying on the USB key with the cp command as written in the manual, I still get to the ash shell |
| 20:42.43 | Efrit | When booting from the USB key and selecting the Live menu to try Debian 10 |
| 20:43.24 | ghormoon | hi, any ideas what to do if i can print a6 on my printer from a pdf, but only page-per-page? if i try to feed it both pages at once, the printer complains it needs a5 paper, not a6. i was hoping for duplex on one (but even getting it on two a6 sheets would be progress). I'm failing both through okular and through lpr |
| 20:47.10 | rawtaz | hm. im trying to figure out how to trigger the running of certbot manually. there's a timer and a service for it. what's the most proper way to just have it run once (as if the trigger time was reached)? |
| 20:47.30 | Akuw | jmcnaught: installed and tested, is nice |
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| 20:48.27 | rawtaz | i guess ill just start the service |
| 20:48.50 | Akuw | jmcnaught: what about atachments? |
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| 20:49.48 | luna | Debconf is done for tonight more tommorow afternoon 2:50pm Swedish time |
| 20:51.22 | rawtaz | luna: there's debconf in sweden now? |
| 20:51.34 | jhutchins_wk | rawtaz: I believe it has a man page, and the documentation at letsencrypt is pretty thorough. |
| 20:51.35 | luna | rawtaz: nope Brazil but i have converted the time for all days :P |
| 20:51.42 | rawtaz | luna: very good :) |
| 20:51.59 | luna | rawtaz: there is a bid for having it in Umeå 2021,2022 or 2023 however |
| 20:52.04 | luna | https://www.acc.umu.se/~maswan/debian/20190722-DebconfBidACC.pdf |
| 20:52.07 | rawtaz | jhutchins_wk: yeah, im trying to figure out why its not renewing anything |
| 20:52.27 | rawtaz | luna: that would be a good reason to visit the lovely city of Umeå! |
| 20:52.29 | luna | and there will be Debian Birthday pizza/burgers in Stockholm 16-17th August: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDay/2019#DebianDay.2F2019.2FSweden.2FStockholm.Sweden:_Stockholm |
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| 20:52.49 | luna | rawtaz: yeah signed up to maybe help its in 2-4 years however if it happends, its decided on Sunday evening |
| 20:53.56 | rawtaz | cool. lets hope it happens |
| 20:55.27 | rawtaz | luna: i can recommend the ghosty hotel, if you go there : |
| 20:55.28 | rawtaz | P |
| 20:55.45 | luna | rawtaz: to Kista or Umeå? |
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| 20:55.59 | rawtaz | umeå |
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| 20:56.46 | luna | rawtaz: good to know there is in minimum two years however, so plenty of time to plan if it happens |
| 20:56.53 | luna | Debconf this year is in Brazil and next year Israel |
| 20:57.12 | rawtaz | yeah thats good |
| 20:57.15 | luna | so only following it via vlc, gobby and irc but might go if it ends up being in Sweden |
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| 20:57.34 | luna | anyways i am off to bed |
| 20:58.09 | rawtaz | bye |
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| 20:59.06 | Efrit | Bye |
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| 21:05.22 | yokowka | паÑни пÑивеÑÑ!! вопÑоÑÑ Ð½Ðµ по линÑкÑÑ, но можеÑÑ Ð·Ð½Ð°ÐµÑе - доÑка обÑÑвлений ÑÑа и канадÑ? |
| 21:05.50 | a0z | !ru |
| 21:05.50 | dpkg | ÐÑо английÑкоговоÑÑÑий канал, пожалÑйÑÑа, говоÑиÑе по-английÑки или поÑеÑиÑе #debian-russian (irc.oftc.net) (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian) |
| 21:07.03 | saptech | english please |
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| 21:17.51 | carp_ | Ive just been reading about apt, apt-get and aptitude. I have just installed Buster, so this seems like a good time to switch to a different package manager if I am going to. Which do you use? |
| 21:18.19 | ksk | carp_: eeeeh ;) |
| 21:18.46 | ksk | apt-get and aptitude first of all, are two different things, coming to slightly different solutions to problems. |
| 21:19.01 | ksk | apt then is just a frontend to apt-get if I recall correctly |
| 21:19.01 | apt | ...but then is already something else... |
| 21:20.12 | ksk | while debian aimed to replace apt-get with aptitude, this did never happen. aptitude may sometimes be smarter about resolving problems that can occour (but should not if you only use debian stable). |
| 21:21.02 | ksk | also, aptitude has the option to "aptitude why $pkg" -telling you why pkg got installed (as a dependencie) - though there might be other ways to get that info, not sure. |
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| 21:21.12 | ksk | if you like colours etc, give apt a try ;) |
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| 21:21.26 | carp_ | thanks |
| 21:21.49 | ksk | Id say if you would call yourself an "end user", you can go for apt. |
| 21:21.50 | learjet60xr | guys |
| 21:21.52 | learjet60xr | which version of Debian is compatible with freenas vm? |
| 21:22.28 | ksk | learjet60xr: as "freenas vm" is not part of debian (is it?), we do not really know. |
| 21:22.51 | learjet60xr | ksk ok thanx |
| 21:23.29 | ksk | if this is some pre-packaged VM check which formates they offer - and go for the latest stable release. You can get for example VirtualBox or so via its upstream. |
| 21:24.22 | learjet60xr | ksk thanx |
| 21:24.45 | magic_ninja | hmm, I need to figure something out for google drive |
| 21:24.51 | magic_ninja | overGrive is very flakey |
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| 21:30.39 | cmihai | Any tips for installing podman / skopeo / buildah on Debian 10? |
| 21:32.12 | Akuw | i am sending mail using msmtp but need to insert a linea break and some html style |
| 21:34.46 | petn-randall | eww, HTML mails. |
| 21:35.10 | joze | analogue? |
| 21:37.54 | rawtaz | it's pretty crazy that there's apt-get, aptitude and apt in debian. seriosuly, consolidate! |
| 21:38.04 | rawtaz | it's always caused a lot of confusion, for no good reason |
| 21:38.39 | petn-randall | rawtaz: Those are different tools. |
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| 21:39.05 | rawtaz | tell that to the average user ;) |
| 21:39.29 | rawtaz | petn-randall: why not just have one apt tool, instead of three? |
| 21:39.34 | petn-randall | it's pretty crazy that there's chrome, firefox and internet explorer. seriosuly, consolidate! |
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| 21:40.18 | petn-randall | rawtaz: aptitude is a GUI, so that won't go away. And "apt" is the effort to consolidate things, so yes, just use that. |
| 21:40.19 | ratrace | someone's confusing dpkg with various frontends and higher level UIs to the one and only dpkg |
| 21:40.21 | rawtaz | petn-randall: well, those are not in such a restricted context as <the package manager for the operating system>, so thats not really the same thing |
| 21:40.38 | petn-randall | rawtaz: The package manager is dpkg. |
| 21:40.39 | ratrace | the package manager is actually dpkg, one and only. |
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| 21:40.57 | rawtaz | fair enough. i hope apt wins this time, so we can get rid of the others |
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| 21:41.00 | ratrace | dpkg: right? there can be only one? |
| 21:41.02 | dpkg | ratrace: I wish you would RTFM. |
| 21:41.07 | ratrace | I wish that too. |
| 21:41.38 | petn-randall | rawtaz: Why get rid of the others? Other people might be happy with their selection of tools. |
| 21:42.14 | rawtaz | petn-randall: because as i said, these have been confusing to the average user or at least the average newcomer for very very long. and most basic things can be done with all of them, fueling that confusion |
| 21:42.43 | rawtaz | e.g. apt-get install and aptitude install |
| 21:42.57 | petn-randall | But ... they do different things? |
| 21:43.01 | rawtaz | (im talking about aptitude in CLI mode, not the UI) |
| 21:43.07 | ratrace | bash: aptitude: command not found |
| 21:43.09 | rawtaz | is installing a package not the same thing? |
| 21:43.13 | ratrace | so not sure what's confusing about that |
| 21:43.22 | petn-randall | Dependency resolution is different between the two. |
| 21:43.23 | rawtaz | ratrace: hehe |
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| 21:43.42 | ratrace | no really. there is no aptitude unless you deliberately install it, so i don't get the confusion for "new users" here |
| 21:43.50 | rawtaz | petn-randall: that might be so, but thats not something non-advanced users have any clue about or even care about in most cases |
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| 21:44.26 | somiaj | rawtaz: apt-get is part of apt, and apt is the main one. The main difference between apt and apt-get is apt-get is now meant for scripts, and apt for end user. |
| 21:44.28 | rawtaz | ratrace: are you sure aptitude isnt installed by default? |
| 21:44.29 | petn-randall | Right. So then just don't install it? I don't see where the confusion comes from. Unless you just decide to install it and not understand what those tools do. |
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| 21:44.33 | carp_ | petn-randall Do you personally use "apt"? Do you use "apt-get" or aptitude much? |
| 21:44.35 | ratrace | rawtaz: pretty much |
| 21:44.49 | ratrace | sudo: aptitude: command not found yup. |
| 21:44.50 | somiaj | rawtaz: aptitude isn't installed by default any more (since jessie I think) |
| 21:44.54 | petn-randall | carp_: I use both apt and aptitude. |
| 21:45.21 | dvs | mentions discover just to confuse everyone |
| 21:45.26 | rawtaz | petn-randall: well you dont seem to have any understanding of what im talking about. perhaps you should go duck "apt-get vs aptitude" or similar to see what inm talking about |
| 21:45.35 | somiaj | yea, having to install aptitude to use its additional features is now needed, but the whole idea of the single binar apt, is to provide a simple tool for endusers. |
| 21:45.36 | ratrace | waits for someone to mention synaptic too |
| 21:45.39 | rawtaz | petn-randall: im not trying to persuade you or anything. if you dont agree, fine. |
| 21:45.51 | rawtaz | somiaj: ok cool |
| 21:46.37 | ratrace | rawtaz: sounds like you're complaining there's a choice of tools, and would like to impose OneTrueWay based on your personal preference. |
| 21:46.42 | petn-randall | rawtaz: I get your angle, but you don't seem to understand that different users have different preferences, and all you're asking for is to get rid of all but one alternative for the sake of not confusing users, which is a pretty weak argument. |
| 21:46.50 | somiaj | but apt is meant to be the end user tool, apt-get is isntalled because many thigns will use it. In general a user can use apt/apt-get interchangable. |
| 21:47.01 | rawtaz | somiaj: whats the main usability difference between apt and apt-get? i mena, why cant users use apt-get like before? |
| 21:47.22 | somiaj | you also forgot about a lot of other ones, the gui ones like synamptic or softwaremanager (both in debian), and deselect is still around, though I think this one is close to not being used by anyone. |
| 21:47.42 | rawtaz | petn-randall: im more like put them in one tool instead of in three. and why does there have to be different dependency resolutions? pick the best one and go with that? |
| 21:47.52 | petn-randall | !best |
| 21:47.52 | dpkg | Best for what? Please define what you mean by "best". Gloria Gaynor! Tina Turner! Aretha Franklin! Men without Hats! Women without Hats! Men at Work! Women at Play! Anyone for Tennis! |
| 21:47.57 | ratrace | throws a confusion grenade in the pot by mentioning flatpak and snaps |
| 21:47.59 | somiaj | rawtaz: apt-get had a few problems, it is overly complicated to end users. It started to be used in scripts, so this makes it so its api cannot be changed, its output needs to be consistant, and this isn't that useful for a end user tool. |
| 21:48.27 | rawtaz | petn-randall: the one that screws things up the least, and if you need more control than that, then let that one tool have that flexibility. you dont need two different tools to provide flexibility |
| 21:48.30 | petn-randall | TBH those tools should be using libapt, though. |
| 21:48.36 | somiaj | rawtaz: so apt was introduced to be end user, it only documents the most basic tools an end user needs, and it gives fancy colored/progress bar output, and it can evolve and change to match users needs |
| 21:48.47 | petn-randall | rawtaz: Why *two*? There are far more tools than that. |
| 21:48.49 | rawtaz | petn-randall: anyway, there's zero point spending time discussing this, because i understand you have a different opinion, which is fine. |
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| 21:49.07 | rawtaz | petn-randall: talking about apt-get and aptitude, which you mentioned before have different dep resolutions |
| 21:49.21 | rawtaz | somiaj: okay, noted |
| 21:49.24 | somiaj | rawtaz: so apt-get is basically frozen, can be scripted, and is meant to be a tool for advanced users, while apt is the tool for end users. But they do most the same things (in the end apt calls apt-get, apt-cache to do its actual work or as petn-randall pointed out libapt) |
| 21:49.40 | rawtaz | that ^ |
| 21:49.52 | rawtaz | read it and think about what that means to the newcomer or basic users. |
| 21:50.00 | rawtaz | thats all im saying |
| 21:50.21 | rawtaz | anyway, thanks for your time, i wont take more of it on this topic |
| 21:50.38 | somiaj | a new user can use apt or apt-get, and due to the archive of the internet filled with (often outdated or bad advise) you'll see it suggest both, it is only now that apt is started to be suggested by pages. |
| 21:50.42 | petn-randall | Sure. But you could argue that having 10 DEs is also confusing to the end user, and as such all but gnome need to be removed. |
| 21:51.09 | petn-randall | Or different library versions in the same release, or many other things. |
| 21:51.12 | somiaj | and in most things replacing apt with apt-get (or vis aversa) will just work without the user knowing why |
| 21:51.41 | somiaj | also apt was meant to consildate tools, so no longer apt-get, apt-cache, apt-foo, just one command apt, that contains the basic tools of all of them. |
| 21:51.49 | somiaj | ,v dselsect |
| 21:51.50 | judd | No package named 'dselsect' was found in amd64. |
| 21:52.01 | somiaj | ,v dselect |
| 21:52.02 | judd | Package: dselect on amd64 -- jessie-security: 1.17.26; jessie: 1.17.27; stretch: 1.18.25; bullseye: 1.19.7; buster: 1.19.7; sid: 1.19.7 |
| 21:52.21 | somiaj | That is the one that I'm surprised is still around (and used) |
| 21:53.33 | somiaj | rawtaz: to me, the biggest issue I see with new users and debian is lots of sources of information is out dated, this even includes the debian wiki, which some pages still have pre jessie info on it. |
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| 21:54.24 | somiaj | so it is less that there are multiple tools, it is that there isn't really a nicely currated single location of information, but more information is spread in lots of different places. I still think the debian adminstaros guide is one of the better guides/books, bit it is a bit long for most begining users to read. |
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| 21:55.46 | rawtaz | somiaj: yeah hopefully in a few years or sooner, apt will be whats referenced by default |
| 21:56.22 | somiaj | due to all the old out dated pages people will still find with high google hits, it won't any time soon. |
| 21:56.47 | somiaj | I personally think an overhaul on the wiki could help out, but the man power isn't there. |
| 21:57.24 | karlpinc | And then there's people like me, who don't like apt because it's too verbose and don't see a reason to switch. |
| 21:57.50 | somiaj | or get annoyed each time you try to pipe the output |
| 21:58.10 | somiaj | the main reason I have forced myself to switch to apt, is so when I help people here, my fingers type apt vs apt-get by default. |
| 21:58.51 | somiaj | though it would be nice if apt worked more like git, so apt policy and apt-policy are both the same thing. |
| 21:59.11 | rawtaz | what's the general opinion on NixOS in the debian community, if i may ask? |
| 21:59.22 | rawtaz | is it frowned upon or welcomed or what? |
| 22:00.02 | somiaj | is nixos another debian based distro? |
| 22:00.09 | somiaj | !nixos |
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| 22:00.38 | rawtaz | nope, i think it's not at all debian based |
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| 22:01.21 | somiaj | ahh, I doubt it is something debian would be intersted in, we already have a good package manager that does upgrades well |
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| 22:01.50 | somiaj | the 'roll backs' and 'side-by-side installation of multiple versions' seem nice, but with debians large number of packages, this would nto be easily implemented |
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| 22:02.16 | rawtaz | yeah youre talking about Nix, the package manager. NixOS is a distro built around that |
| 22:02.21 | rawtaz | but yeah, same thing basically :> |
| 22:03.02 | somiaj | wonder if nix is taking advantage of all the snaps/flatpacks/appimages out there, where softare bundles are comming statically linked with all needed libaries, but this isn't how debian is designed. |
| 22:03.12 | somiaj | debian is designed around a shared libary model, and I highly doubt this is gonna change |
| 22:03.45 | rawtaz | yeh debian wont change its package model |
| 22:04.21 | somiaj | hmm, seems google search says some are using nix in debian, but they are using it like one would use snap or flatpack |
| 22:04.33 | somiaj | they are using it to install stuff on top of a debian stable system that is not included in debian. |
| 22:05.56 | rawtaz | yeah |
| 22:06.21 | rawtaz | its its own ecosystem. the declarations are written in the Nix language (which is fricken great), so they cant just reuse other ones |
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| 22:08.04 | somiaj | yea, I think more and more (with hd space being so cheap and people wanting things to be more windows like) different solutions with staticlly linked binaries are being developed. Maybe one day one will be come the standard across distros. There are advantages and disavantages to this package/app manager approach. |
| 22:08.40 | rawtaz | indeed |
| 22:08.47 | rawtaz | everything (almost) has pros and cons :> |
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| 22:09.09 | somiaj | but I think the source code, shared libaries, and distro specific packages actually help development in the linux world, because of bug reports and fixes by all the different skilled users working with the source code (not just the package) |
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| 22:15.10 | roylaprattep | hi somiaj |
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| 22:31.15 | rawtaz | god darnit. screw certbot >_< |
| 22:31.30 | rawtaz | heads off to get lego and make a custom systemd unit |
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