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| 00:04.56 | rj1 | UnloadModule: "libinput" |
| 00:05.02 | rj1 | is that the issue? |
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| 00:11.25 | trek00 | rj1: may be bug #929834? |
| 00:11.26 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/929834 in light-locker (forwarded): «lightdm-gtk-greeter: After locking screen, display is turned off and unlock prompt is not visible.»; severity: important; opened: 2019-06-01; last modified: 2019-07-14. |
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| 00:13.27 | rj1 | trek00: sure sounds like it! thx! |
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| 00:15.17 | trek00 | rj1: may be you can try another greeter (which one I don't know) |
| 00:15.41 | trek00 | rj1: or another display manager |
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| 00:17.49 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 00:22.41 | rj1 | trek00: thank you very much! this workaround provided in the thread has fixed it for me - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=929834#66 |
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| 00:28.03 | trek00 | rj1: good :) |
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| 00:41.24 | astronavt | why are gcc-doc and cpp-doc unavailable? |
| 00:41.43 | astronavt | also is bug #924712 something i need to care about? apt alerted me to it while installing stuff |
| 00:41.44 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/924712 in libc6-dev (open): «crypt() not available _XOPEN_SOURCE is defined»; severity: serious; opened: 2019-03-16; last modified: 2019-03-21. |
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| 00:44.38 | BobBarker | Hello, when I have numlock on my 9 and 3 keys and page up and pagedown, I want to bind these keys to a terminal application but I can't bind them the say way I do 8 3 2 6 |
| 00:44.44 | BobBarker | 8 2 4 6* |
| 00:44.56 | BobBarker | is there way to change this behavior? |
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| 00:50.24 | BobBarker | nevermind, this looks like a functionality issue with suckless-terminal, aterm works fine. |
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| 01:02.33 | qid|ydl | is there a good way to *enable* screen blanking on boot? google finds lots of advice on disabling it but not setting up something to enable it... I'm on buster with no X |
| 01:03.43 | qid|ydl | not sure if there's a best way to configure the consoleblank kernel parameter, or to run setterm at startup, assuming either of those does what I want |
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| 01:06.37 | enri | hello |
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| 01:19.22 | bertbob | qid|ydl: consoleblank can be set in /etc/default/grub or as an append line in lilo.conf. consoleblank=0 disbables the timer, the default |
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| 01:21.09 | bertbob | qid|ydl: I use consoleblank=600, which is 10 minutes. It works well |
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| 01:26.25 | qid|ydl | bertbob: thanks, I'll give that a shot |
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| 01:45.58 | jim | bertbob, is lilo still a thing? |
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| 01:52.42 | abrotman | judd: v lilo |
| 01:52.44 | judd | Package: lilo on amd64 -- jessie: 1:24.1-1; stretch: 1:24.2-2+b1; bullseye: 1:24.2-4; buster: 1:24.2-4; sid: 1:24.2-4 |
| 01:55.30 | dvs | checks what year it is |
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| 02:09.11 | jim | abrotman, ok, lilo is in debian... howbout this: how can I see popcon results? |
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| 02:13.58 | Tom-_ | dpkg, popcon? |
| 02:13.58 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, popcon is the Debian Popularity contest, the basis for what packages appear on the first few CDs/DVDs etc (by rank). Install the popularity-contest package to participate. See the results at http://popcon.debian.org/ -- See the FAQ at http://popcon.debian.org/FAQ . Statistics are also available via IRC, /msg judd popcon $package |
| 02:15.27 | jim | thanks |
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| 02:19.18 | jim | interesting... grub does beat lilo by a fairly large margin... but its installed numbers are kinda low... is there another boot loader? |
| 02:20.29 | Tom-_ | did me asking for nethack-console to be created (although the name was only a suggestion) get it on the Debian woody CD 1? |
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| 02:20.43 | Tom-_ | jim, interesting. well there's extlinux and gummiboot or systemd-boot |
| 02:21.26 | SerajewelKS | jim: ~200k installs is low? |
| 02:21.36 | SerajewelKS | jim: it's the 120th most-installed package in debian |
| 02:22.01 | astronavt | does popcon include installs that were part of an iso though |
| 02:22.08 | jim | systemd-boot might be it... SerajewelKS, oh, didn't see the k |
| 02:22.18 | SerajewelKS | it includes any install that has installed and activated the package |
| 02:22.31 | SerajewelKS | (and has internet connectivity) |
| 02:22.35 | astronavt | how is it not included in nearly every debian install then |
| 02:22.55 | SerajewelKS | astronavt: what do you call 98.35% if not "nearly every install" |
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| 02:23.15 | jim | I figure that since uptodate netinstalls install grub, it should be at least the most installed boot loader, if not the most installed package |
| 02:23.18 | Tom-_ | SerajewelKS, little hlep, where do you see 200 k installs of GRUB? |
| 02:23.23 | astronavt | which stats page should i be looking at |
| 02:23.30 | SerajewelKS | Tom-_: https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=grub2 and look at grub-common |
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| 02:24.29 | astronavt | https://popcon.debian.org/by_inst |
| 02:25.01 | SerajewelKS | astronavt: see the page i linked Tom-_ |
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| 02:25.25 | astronavt | i wonder if the gap between grub and dpkg, apt, etc. has more to do with historical data than anything |
| 02:25.38 | jim | SerajewelKS, thanks... by the way, do you have some time for me? I want to figure out the jack + pulse thing... I can get pulse stopped using systemd --user, but jack doesn't start; I must have the config wrong or something |
| 02:25.39 | SerajewelKS | it could be explained any number of ways |
| 02:25.54 | SerajewelKS | jim: can you pastebin the jack log? |
| 02:26.15 | jim | the one that shows up in qjackctl? |
| 02:26.20 | SerajewelKS | jim: also note that pulseaudio is configured by default to start as soon as something tries to play audio. so it's possible that something starts it right back up as soon as you stop it. |
| 02:26.27 | SerajewelKS | jim: sure |
| 02:26.40 | jim | sec |
| 02:27.04 | Tom-_ | extlinus is surprisingly popular in judd's popcon results, in fact the highest of all the bootloaders i checked |
| 02:27.38 | Tom-_ | etlinux ;) |
| 02:28.00 | Tom-_ | whatever |
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| 02:28.33 | SerajewelKS | TimWolla: i. uh... what? no. |
| 02:28.44 | SerajewelKS | TimWolla: it's barely pushing 5% |
| 02:29.10 | Tom-_ | SerajewelKS, ah i see the ~= 200 k installs in popcon for grub-common now |
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| 02:29.56 | jim | SerajewelKS, jack log from qjackctl: https://termbin.com/wpbw |
| 02:30.35 | SerajewelKS | jim: "ALSA: Cannot open PCM device alsa_pcm for playback." |
| 02:30.43 | SerajewelKS | jim: are you 100% sure that pulse did not start after you stopped it |
| 02:30.58 | jim | no |
| 02:31.04 | SerajewelKS | heh :) |
| 02:31.11 | SerajewelKS | "ps ax | grep pulse" and see if it shows up |
| 02:31.21 | SerajewelKS | if it does you should disable autospawn |
| 02:31.24 | jim | oh wait, that pastebin was made without stopping it, so of course it's running |
| 02:31.32 | SerajewelKS | ah |
| 02:31.42 | Tom-_ | looks like most people are using BIOS boot too |
| 02:32.01 | SerajewelKS | Tom-_: i use bios boot unless there is a compelling reason not to |
| 02:32.25 | Tom-_ | takes a deep breath |
| 02:32.25 | SerajewelKS | EFI is insanely hard to work with in a system with redundant storage, unless you have hardware RAID |
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| 02:32.34 | SerajewelKS | you can't safely mirror the ESP |
| 02:32.43 | Tom-_ | i'm getting mixed ideas on (U)EFI |
| 02:32.57 | SerajewelKS | with software RAID, i mean |
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| 02:33.21 | Tom-_ | yeah, i'd like to use software RAID in the future, but i think it's called MD now |
| 02:33.49 | SerajewelKS | so you either have to do some kind of by-hand or by-script synchronization of the ESP or you have to configure only one boot disk and hope that disk doesn't die ever |
| 02:34.26 | SerajewelKS | you can use 0.9x dmraid as the metadata is stored at the end but then ANYTHING ELSE that MIGHT modify the ESP (your BIOS, another OS) and isn't aware of dmraid will desync the array |
| 02:34.57 | SerajewelKS | it's unfortunate, but UEFI makes it really hard to have redundant boot disks |
| 02:35.07 | SerajewelKS | i guess everyone assumes you'll use hardware RAID |
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| 02:35.28 | SerajewelKS | (which I try to avoid) |
| 02:35.33 | Tom-_ | abou twhich I would prefer software RAID |
| 02:36.09 | SerajewelKS | software RAID doesn't require proprietary tools to tweak on a live system and is very compatible with any linux |
| 02:36.23 | qid|ydl | every time I've tried hardware raid the controller has screwed up at some point and trashed the array, despite the disks being fine |
| 02:36.25 | Tom-_ | yeah i was barely going to default to using BIOS in general |
| 02:36.40 | SerajewelKS | hardware RAID makes redundant boot with UEFI simpler. not worth the trade-off IMO. so i use software RAID with BIOS boot when I can. |
| 02:37.16 | qid|ydl | now I just do backups, seems to be more reliable overall |
| 02:37.27 | SerajewelKS | i do backups as well. in fact, RAID is not a backup solution. |
| 02:37.41 | SerajewelKS | RAID is a high-availability solution. |
| 02:37.59 | qid|ydl | right, it's only useful against hardware failures, not software failures or human error |
| 02:38.08 | SerajewelKS | and not even all hardware failures |
| 02:38.11 | Tom-_ | yeah |
| 02:38.21 | SerajewelKS | it's designed to keep the machine on during disk maintenance, not to protect your data |
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| 02:38.53 | qid|ydl | I'm not doing anything with high availability requirements, just a home server |
| 02:39.13 | qid|ydl | these days it's easier to offload that kind of stuff onto azure or aws most of the time |
| 02:39.21 | SerajewelKS | same. i use RAID less for high availability and more so because i don't want to be arsed trying to restore a backup when a disk inevitably fails. |
| 02:39.37 | SerajewelKS | i have backups so that i can restore in the case of a house fire or mobo failure that zaps the disks or something like that |
| 02:39.47 | SerajewelKS | but if a single disk fails (much more likely) it's just easier to have RAID deal with it |
| 02:39.57 | SerajewelKS | in fact i've already had to replace one disk. worked like a charm. |
| 02:40.31 | SerajewelKS | i can justify the cost of the second disk as an insurance policy against my time. it's cheaper to have the extra disk than to take hours of my precious time to get the server running again. :) |
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| 02:42.03 | SerajewelKS | and the "insurance policy" has already paid out in excess of what i spent on the disk, IMO |
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| 02:49.59 | jim | SerajewelKS, ok, now pulse is definitely gone... one sec |
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| 02:53.34 | jim | SerajewelKS, here's another jack log from qjackctl: https://termbin.com/i5wo |
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| 02:56.33 | SerajewelKS | jim: same error. confirm with ps that pulse is not running. |
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| 02:58.20 | jim | 10555 pts/4 D+ 1:59 grep -r systemctl --user stop pulseaudio.socket (\n) 10703 pts/7 S+ 0:00 grep pulse |
| 02:58.31 | jim | pulse is definitely gone |
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| 02:59.13 | jim | do you see in the log what device node it's trying to use? |
| 03:01.13 | jim | can I use fuser or something along those lines to see if there's a process keeping it busy? |
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| 03:02.53 | SerajewelKS | jim: creating alsa driver ... hw:HDMI|-|1024|2|44100|0|2|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit |
| 03:03.04 | SerajewelKS | jim: you could try playing something that directly uses alsa from the command line to see what happens |
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| 03:04.17 | jim | howbout if I start vlc? |
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| 03:08.37 | SerajewelKS | just make sure if you tell it to use alsa that it's not using the pulse driver |
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| 03:14.59 | jim | when I go to vlc's menu audio -> audio device, I get a huge list of outputs |
| 03:15.33 | jim | when I start vlc, it says it can't use the default, gets "connection refused" |
| 03:16.35 | SerajewelKS | that may be pulse |
| 03:17.07 | jim | that it's trying to connect to? |
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| 03:18.39 | jim | !artsshell |
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| 03:19.49 | jim | I think that predates pulse, in any case artsshell is not installed |
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| 03:24.21 | jim | the default/from-the-package config of qjackctl tries to kill off artsshell... perhaps that's a filable bug... I don't see it being harmful to try to run a nonexistant program |
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| 03:28.31 | Tom-_ | i use aplay -l or aplay -L to find devices, and aplay uh |
| 03:29.11 | Tom-_ | i forget, but some options are for finding the devices, and another option is used to specify the device |
| 03:29.18 | Tom-_ | it's faster than reconfiguring and restarting VLC every time |
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| 03:32.13 | jim | but I'm not sure how to use fuser with a device listed in aplay -l |
| 03:33.20 | jim | SerajewelKS, here's a log without any youtubes running (so no browsers): https://termbin.com/ngol |
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| 03:40.40 | SerajewelKS | jim: it's hard to say why it doesn't work. did you select the correct alsa device in the qjackctl config? |
| 03:41.02 | jim | don't know :) |
| 03:42.14 | jim | wait, I just got it started |
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| 03:42.59 | jim | yep, it's running... I picked a different device, the analog one |
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| 03:47.00 | SerajewelKS | ah. does playing using the HDMI device work with other stuff though? |
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| 03:47.20 | SerajewelKS | (maybe the sample rate was wrong, too, and the hardware wanted 48kHz) |
| 03:47.30 | jim | at the moment? I dunno exactly |
| 03:47.41 | jim | I switched to 48k earlier |
| 03:48.51 | jim | it works at 44.1khz earlier |
| 03:49.17 | jim | sorry, I just now switched to 44.1 |
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| 03:51.02 | jim | when I start the jack_metro client, it says "Cannot lock down 82280346 byte memory area (Cannot allocate memory)" |
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| 03:51.37 | jim | 82 mb should be easy |
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| 03:58.58 | SerajewelKS | hmm. i don't use jack_metro so not sure how to help you. |
| 03:59.26 | SerajewelKS | do you get that from jack or from jack_metro |
| 03:59.49 | SerajewelKS | oh right, i recognize that error actually |
| 03:59.53 | SerajewelKS | jim: what is the output of "ulimit -l" |
| 04:00.31 | jim | 65536 |
| 04:00.49 | SerajewelKS | there's the problem |
| 04:00.59 | SerajewelKS | your system is configured to allow 64mb of locked memory |
| 04:01.19 | jim | ok, can I increase that? |
| 04:01.45 | SerajewelKS | yes, in /etc/security (buster) |
| 04:01.59 | SerajewelKS | add a file to the limits.d directory |
| 04:03.02 | SerajewelKS | something like: youruser - memlock infinity |
| 04:03.25 | SerajewelKS | i believe the simplest way to get this change to take effect is to log out and back in |
| 04:03.58 | jim | I have a file, /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf |
| 04:04.04 | jim | I'll pastebin it |
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| 04:04.35 | jim | https://termbin.com/8kg3 |
| 04:05.17 | SerajewelKS | okay so in that case you just need to add your user to the audio group |
| 04:05.34 | SerajewelKS | sudo adduser $USER audio |
| 04:05.39 | SerajewelKS | then log out and back in |
| 04:05.52 | jim | I think it is |
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| 04:06.01 | jim | one sec, let me check for sure |
| 04:06.04 | SerajewelKS | check with "id" |
| 04:06.10 | jim | (I reinstalled) |
| 04:06.14 | SerajewelKS | if it is you shouldn't have any memlock limit :/ |
| 04:06.53 | SerajewelKS | another possible explanation is that you have not logged out and back in since you installed the jackd package (which creates this config file) |
| 04:06.53 | jim | looks like I'm in audio group |
| 04:07.32 | jim | oh, let's try that... in fact, I'll reboot "just because" |
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| 04:13.27 | jim | ok back again... stopped pulse |
| 04:18.05 | SerajewelKS | jim: it's after midnight here so i need to run to bed. i'll try to read the scrollback in the morning. |
| 04:18.26 | jim | now I'm not getting "cannot allocate any more when starting clients, jack does start... |
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| 04:18.46 | jim | SerajewelKS, ahh, east coaster. noted |
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| 04:18.59 | SerajewelKS | cheers |
| 04:19.12 | jim | SerajewelKS, what time of day is best? |
| 04:20.19 | SerajewelKS | depends, i'm at the keys during EST business hours (am a dev/sysadmin) |
| 04:20.33 | SerajewelKS | and i'm on some in the evenings when my family permits |
| 04:20.53 | SerajewelKS | but i don't monitor IRC all of the time either |
| 04:21.11 | jim | ok, good enough. I'll ask when I see you around |
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| 04:21.52 | SerajewelKS | doesn't hurt to ping me either, if i'm paying attention i'll respond |
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| 04:23.59 | alphazulu | is RPC used for anything anymore? is it needed? |
| 04:24.38 | alphazulu | rpcinfo doesn't show anything other than portmapper service |
| 04:25.11 | alphazulu | on another ubuntu system there is no rpcbind even installed |
| 04:25.23 | met | for nfs |
| 04:26.16 | alphazulu | hmm yes i see rpcbind and nfs-common installed for some reason. will remove them |
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| 04:35.56 | Gerowen | How do I ensure that a third party repository (in this case Plex Media Server) is included in the unattended upgrades process so updates get installed automatically? |
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| 04:42.45 | jim | SerajewelKS, ok, good enough... in case you're still here, I went through a lot of the devices in my aplay -L, and (suspiciously) can't find it... I wonder if I'm plugged into the wrong socket? |
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| 04:50.51 | alphazulu | Gerowen: maybe run dpkg-reconfigure unattended-upgrades ? |
| 04:51.17 | alphazulu | Gerowen: man unattended-upgrade |
| 04:51.45 | Wulf | Hello! Is there a list of uninstallable (due to unfulfillable dependencies) packages in unstable? |
| 04:52.53 | jim | Wulf, hi, I've never seen such a list |
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| 04:53.10 | alphazulu | Wulf: you mean every package in the debian unstable repository that has a dependency bug? |
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| 04:53.40 | Wulf | alphazulu: yep |
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| 04:58.47 | Gerowen | alphazulu: The man and --help options for it aren't very, I've found a few walkthroughs on the internet that supposedly explain it, but all I have from Plex is the "site", being the URL for the repo, and when I browse to it in Firefox it just redirects to their regular download web page. |
| 04:59.14 | Gerowen | On top of that, I'm not getting any useful output when I do unattended-upgrade -d that tells me if it succeeded or failed in checking for an update on the repo after adding it to 50unattended-upgrades |
| 05:00.03 | Gerowen | I tried entering a known bad URL like https://yermom just to see if maybe it would give me an error message, so that I'd know if the error went away, the URL was working, but it doesn't give any output about success or failure in the debug output. |
| 05:00.04 | alphazulu | Wulf: you can enter filter params on the BTS web page: https://www.debian.org/Bugs/ |
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| 05:01.03 | Gerowen | I think what I may do is just remove the changes I made for Plex from unattended-upgrade and toss a little bash script into cron.daily that specifically looks for updates to Plex, and only Plex, and let unattended-upgrades handle the rest of the system since it does automatic reboots and all that jazz. |
| 05:01.13 | alphazulu | Gerowen: are you just trying to add the repository for plex to your sources? |
| 05:01.27 | Gerowen | No it's in the sources already, but it isn't included in the unattended-upgrades process. |
| 05:02.09 | alphazulu | Gerowen: well the man page lists the conf file for it. if that doesn't help i don't know anything else |
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| 05:03.42 | alphazulu | Gerowen: maybe /etc/cron.daily/apt-compat |
| 05:04.34 | Gerowen | alphazulu: Yeah that conf file is where I added the "site" value for Plex, but I can't seem to find any confirmation as to whether or not it likes the value I'm giving it, so I just won't mess with unattended-upgrades for Plex. |
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| 05:08.22 | alphazulu | Gerowen: i mean basically it's trivial to write your own cron script |
| 05:08.35 | Gerowen | I just did, :p |
| 05:09.07 | alphazulu | :-) |
| 05:09.21 | Gerowen | I had "just" noticed Plex wasn't getting updated automatically and got curious as to why, thanks for responding though, :-) |
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| 05:09.59 | alphazulu | according to man page it appears unattended-upgrade only installs security updates |
| 05:12.00 | Gerowen | Yeah I think that's what it's intended for, but I added a few lines and uncommented a few things where it's been doing other updates as well, automatically reboots at 0400 every day if an update requires it (such as a new kernel), automatically removes newly unused dependencies, etc. |
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| 05:17.23 | alphazulu | Wulf: i don't know if package installation is part of CI workflow for all packages or not. if so dependency issue(s) might get picked up that way and tagged |
| 05:19.26 | alphazulu | Wulf: you can see the GET API for Debian CI https://ci.debian.net/api/doc |
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| 05:52.16 | SymbioticFemale | after i apt install docker, I have no 'man docker' and no 'docker' bin file |
| 05:52.44 | AlpacaFace | hi. trying to install irssi script desktop-notify, but its asking me to install glib::object::introspection module. Any idea which one specifically? there are many that seem to fit. tried gobject-introspection, did not work. |
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| 05:58.02 | Wulf | AlpacaFace: perhaps libglib-object-introspection-perl |
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| 06:26.10 | csanyipal | Hi, |
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| 06:28.32 | csanyipal | I upgraded yesterday my Debian Stretch to Buster on my laptop. Since then on my XFCE DE when there is no acitivity the screen goes blank and after that I can't get it back to state so I can't work after that. I must use the Power button of the laptop to power off, then power on my laptop. |
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| 06:29.36 | csanyipal | I try to set up in the Settings how to save Energy. My laptop is always on the power ( not on battery ), battery is full charged. |
| 06:30.11 | csanyipal | I did set up so it not should go into hibernate state. |
| 06:30.20 | csanyipal | How to solve this problem? |
| 06:32.15 | csanyipal | I am installing now the laptop-mode-tools on this laptop. |
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| 06:45.02 | kreyren | i need debian netinstall with non-free sources |
| 06:45.32 | kreyren | assuming that end-user can install netinstall from wifi this way |
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| 06:48.12 | kreyren | btw. description on https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/ is wrong (using debian buster) |
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| 07:20.58 | ZaZaGX | ah, do i need to have all dvds downloaded to install debian-10? or all 3? netinstall doesn't work |
| 07:22.27 | deego | just 1 is good |
| 07:23.59 | ZaZaGX | thanks. i did that before. but i can't update the debian OS. i thought i installed it wrong |
| 07:24.35 | klys | zazagx, what was your network hardware? |
| 07:25.18 | ZaZaGX | Intel Wireless 8265 / 8275 |
| 07:25.21 | kreyren | Looking for .iso with debian testing (end-user doesn't have internet connection and unofficial was unable to autoconfigure) |
| 07:26.07 | ZaZaGX | i downloaded the firmware edition of debian on the offical website. so i got it to work for the wifi |
| 07:26.42 | ZaZaGX | sudo apt-get update doesn't work. |
| 07:26.52 | ZaZaGX | it says i couldn't sudo, and it'll be reported |
| 07:27.17 | klys | you should try `su -' then |
| 07:27.51 | ZaZaGX | i did try su, it didn't work |
| 07:28.02 | klys | did it ask you for a root password? |
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| 07:28.30 | ZaZaGX | yes |
| 07:28.47 | klys | and you were able to oblige it because you set the root password yourself? |
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| 07:29.08 | ZaZaGX | yes |
| 07:29.28 | klys | then you got a # prompt and tried `apt-get update' ? |
| 07:30.40 | ZaZaGX | yeah, it doesn't update |
| 07:30.57 | klys | you will have to elaborate on your error messages next time. |
| 07:31.30 | ZaZaGX | i'm not sure how to update it |
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| 07:32.02 | klys | there are files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ that should contain contents that had been explained to you |
| 07:34.03 | ZaZaGX | ok, well i'm going to try it again |
| 07:34.06 | ZaZaGX | (install it) |
| 07:34.39 | klys | good luck! |
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| 08:13.56 | jelly | kreyren, testing is not for the faint hearted, move the machine somewhere you can get wired internet, then use the usual way of installing it (smallest stable installation, and then switch sources and do a release upgrade) |
| 08:16.02 | jelly | kreyren, this early in the release process it makes little sense for developers to focus on debian-installer media, and automatically generated iso images will often be broken |
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| 09:02.00 | format_c | infinity_: use apt-file search Constant.pm |
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| 09:32.35 | ZaZaGX | omg it works |
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| 10:10.23 | Haohmaru | in a terminal (say, lxterminal) i get fancy colors when i "ls" .. but when i'm root - no |
| 10:10.37 | luna | Location for the Debian Day in Stockholm in August now fixed |
| 10:10.55 | Haohmaru | is this intentional to scare off normal users from accidentally messing things up as root? |
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| 10:11.13 | Haohmaru | "scare" ..sorta |
| 10:11.19 | koollman | Haohmaru: do you get color as root with: ls --color |
| 10:12.12 | Haohmaru | yeah |
| 10:12.23 | Haohmaru | folders are blue |
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| 10:16.10 | koollman | Haohmaru: so, users have alias defined for ls, and root does not. you can probably change that |
| 10:16.34 | Haohmaru | nah, it's not a problem |
| 10:16.51 | Haohmaru | i guess this is maybe intentionally done like that |
| 10:17.27 | Haohmaru | so that when you "ls" as root (without intending it) - you'll notice something doesn't look right |
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| 10:21.12 | jelly | Haohmaru, it's accidental, and likely based on keeping settings for root at their builtin/global defaults to minimize surprises |
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| 10:21.31 | jelly | LS_COLORS are not enabled or present by default. |
| 10:21.52 | klys | nor* |
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| 10:22.20 | jelly | stands corrected |
| 10:22.43 | humpled | heheh |
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| 10:32.54 | Bushmills | "it's accidental" - hm, has been that way for as long as I can remember |
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| 10:35.59 | Habbie | Bushmills, doesn't mean it was on purpose to begin with |
| 10:36.26 | jelly | compiled and global defaults tend not to change that quickly |
| 10:36.27 | Bushmills | But probably on purpose by now |
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| 12:24.05 | lineageosfan | Could anybody please tell me how to do a file system check on a decrypted USB stick? |
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| 12:25.00 | lineageosfan | sudo fsck slash media slash veracryp1 does not work |
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| 12:25.54 | madage | lineageosfan: how do you mount such device? |
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| 12:26.27 | lineageosfan | madage with Veracrypt |
| 12:27.13 | lineageosfan | I encrypted the entire stick. |
| 12:27.15 | madage | veracrypt decrypts and automounts it? |
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| 12:27.24 | lineageosfan | madage: yes |
| 12:27.56 | madage | if you dmesg after it, can you see a new device being created? |
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| 12:28.16 | madage | or if you do a "mount" without options |
| 12:28.27 | lineageosfan | I use the GUI. |
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| 12:29.37 | madage | you will probably need to do it on the cli so you get the unencrypted device to fsck it |
| 12:30.12 | madage | or at least you can open the terminal and do an umount without closing the device |
| 12:30.22 | lineageosfan | I already did but to fsck it looks as an unformated stick and it says bad superblock, as it naturally can not find a fs |
| 12:30.27 | madage | and taking note on the unencrypted device name |
| 12:30.59 | madage | you are doing it to the encrypted device, not the unencrypted one |
| 12:31.10 | lineageosfan | The device name is xvdj |
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| 12:32.02 | lineageosfan | Could it be possible that there is no tutorial on this simple task? I am the first from 7 billion people on the planet who wouldl ike to do this? |
| 12:32.18 | lineageosfan | I could not find anything. |
| 12:32.27 | lineageosfan | I assume this is a trivial task. |
| 12:32.59 | bzed | lineageosfan: well, I guess your problem is that nobody sane uses Veracrypt ;) |
| 12:33.00 | madage | there probably is... but anyhow, what do you see if you issue "mount" after veracrypt automounts it? |
| 12:33.31 | madage | or if you "dmesg | tail -n 30" |
| 12:36.04 | bzed | lineageosfan: well, first hit with google: https://nicktail.com/opening-veracrypt-volumes-without-mounting |
| 12:36.11 | bzed | you could have managed to find that, too |
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| 12:37.41 | lineageosfan | bzed: No I couldn't have. I have installed the GUI version of Veracrypt. I wouldn't have looked/searched for that. If I had an idea how to do it I would have entered different search terms. |
| 12:38.23 | humpled | ,v veracrypt |
| 12:38.24 | lineageosfan | bzed: Anything on the web can be found if you know what you are looking for exactly. |
| 12:38.24 | judd | No package named 'veracrypt' was found in amd64. |
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| 12:38.50 | lineageosfan | judd: Yes, thank you. |
| 12:39.07 | lineageosfan | OK, Thank you. I will go to the Veracrypt channel then. |
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| 12:39.58 | humpled | lineageosfan: if you show the commands you used and the errors which returned, plus other information which may be asked for, people will have a chance to help you... |
| 12:40.07 | humpled | oopss |
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| 12:42.10 | Eryn_1983_FL | hey guys i think i got this bug i keep seeing it in my logs https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=930707 |
| 12:42.11 | somebody | Hello. Is it possible to configure Debian to install security updates immediately after they come out, but the rest of them once per week? |
| 12:42.12 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/930707 in evince (open, patch): «evince: misc apparmor profile updates»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-06-18; last modified: 2019-06-18. |
| 12:42.25 | Eryn_1983_FL | is this relate to thunar? its the onlything i got open that preveiws ... |
| 12:42.41 | Eryn_1983_FL | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:42.43 | Eryn_1983_FL | <PROTECTED> |
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| 13:00.25 | shiftlockboom | Has anyone experience installing debian on libreboot with encrypted /boot? |
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| 13:13.02 | ssarah | hi. is there such a thing as a recommended post install script for debian as a server? |
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| 13:13.18 | ssarah | you know, installing fail2ban, ssh server, ntp. stuff like that |
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| 13:14.03 | Mathisen | ssarah, nope, everyone got diffrent needs |
| 13:14.15 | ssarah | any recommended guides you know of? |
| 13:14.20 | SPiRiT__ | Hey ssarah, I guess every person would like to create his own script... Maybe you can see what people do (google) and build your own. I am now building my own |
| 13:14.36 | SPiRiT__ | for installing gnome extensions, configure keyboard shortcuts, install software etc'... |
| 13:14.59 | Mathisen | ssarah, just think of what usecase your debian machine is gonna have. and then configure it for the job |
| 13:15.00 | ssarah | am trying to find such things, so far no success |
| 13:15.27 | SPiRiT__ | what would you like to customize or change in your system? :) |
| 13:15.46 | SPiRiT__ | if it works perfect for you out of the box then why to run such script? :) |
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| 13:19.40 | ssarah | i'm also trying to find such scripts in order to draw from the experience of others. |
| 13:20.01 | ssarah | it's not just to tune the machine. |
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| 13:20.23 | greycat | ... so I guess ssarah is not talking about package postinstall scripts... |
| 13:20.41 | ssarah | not only that |
| 13:21.16 | greycat | As far as I can tell, it's literally not that *at all*. You're talking about "what steps do you perform to install Debian"? |
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| 13:23.42 | greycat | Whereas the Debian package management system has a thing called a "postinst" (post-install), which is shipped as part of each package, and is executed when the package is installed. These live in /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.postinst and you can read them. |
| 13:24.10 | greycat | Took me a few moments to realize this is *not* what you were talking about. |
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| 13:26.45 | SPiRiT__ | do you mean pkg-reconfigure ? :/ |
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| 13:31.24 | greycat | As far as "what steps do you perform when installing Debian", it's incredibly machine- and organization-specific. E.g. I have my own local NTP servers on my network, so one of the things I do is edit /etc/ntp.conf and replace all the "pool" entries with my local NTP servers. |
| 13:32.24 | greycat | I also have to gather up the new machine's MAC address and DHCP-allocated IP address and send an email to the person/role who manages IP addresses, and request that this DHCP allocation become permanent. Otherwise the damned IP address will change. |
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| 13:33.32 | greycat | Then I have to replace the contents of /etc/resolv.conf with my own nameservers and my own subdomain name, and take steps to prevent DHCP or other daemons from reverting my changes. |
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| 13:34.11 | greycat | Then I have to decide whether I want to let this box run exim4, or rip that out and replace it with a different MTA, which is very strongly dependent on what this box *does*. |
| 13:35.43 | thms | greycat, Do you use ansible for this ? :) |
| 13:35.47 | greycat | no |
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| 13:48.31 | Akuw | if i have debian installed, later i can use LVM? |
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| 13:48.43 | Akuw | to install another hard drive to expand |
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| 13:49.21 | Mathisen | i recommend setting upp LVM during install if you talking about using it on the debian system |
| 13:49.27 | Mathisen | pain to setup post install |
| 13:49.43 | Mathisen | not true if you just want a random new hdd/sdd to use for something and just use LVM for that |
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| 13:50.31 | Akuw | the requeriment is just to increase storage |
| 13:50.36 | Akuw | using lvm |
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| 13:52.22 | Mathisen | is not experienced with raid + lvm.. so cant answer that |
| 13:53.03 | SwedeMike | Akuw: you can use LVM on the new drives, but the original install can't be part of that lvm setup if it wasn't there from the beginning. |
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| 13:53.21 | Akuw | Upss |
| 13:53.25 | SwedeMike | Akuw: so you can move /home to a new drive that uses lvm for instance |
| 13:53.27 | Akuw | bad design |
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| 14:00.11 | nifker | when I try to set environment varibales with .profile using lightdm it seems like it wont set them |
| 14:00.39 | ratrace | nifker: you need ~/.xsessionrc |
| 14:00.46 | greycat | that's because Display Manager logins (e.g. lightdm) do not run a login shell, so there is nothing that reads .profile |
| 14:01.17 | nifker | ratrace: even under wayland? |
| 14:01.19 | greycat | https://wiki.debian.org/EnvironmentVariables |
| 14:01.35 | ratrace | nifker: no idea about wayland |
| 14:01.38 | greycat | I don't know about Wayland. If someone does, please let me know, or just edit the wiki. |
| 14:01.57 | ratrace | which de/wm would you run under lightdm with wayland? |
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| 14:02.03 | nifker | sway |
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| 14:02.20 | nifker | but I need to set the variables before the wm starts |
| 14:03.07 | greycat | well, you could try ~/.xsessionrc and see what happens. |
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| 14:03.30 | ratrace | nifker: then you need something sway specific i think, wayland is just a protocol, "it" itself doesn't do anything, so the compositor does, in this case sway |
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| 14:04.05 | greycat | ratrace: the issue is "what does lightdm do" when it is supposed to run a Wayland session instead of an X session |
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| 14:04.43 | ratrace | that part i don't know ; but i do seem to recall that with wayland, things have moved one level "below", to compositors themselves |
| 14:04.56 | ratrace | i mean, i don't know how lightdm interacts with wayland itself |
| 14:05.08 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:07.00 | ratrace | quick googling suggests there's something called /usr/share/wayland-sessions that's analogous to xsessions |
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| 14:08.17 | choice | One of my VMs suddenly got extremely slow. Even though top says its very much idle. Any ideas what is going on? |
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| 14:08.29 | choice | Could it be that some disk repair is going on? How would I check that? |
| 14:10.07 | ratrace | choice: with ioping for example, you can check (virtual) disk latency and compare to your other VMs ; I assume you don't have access to the host? |
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| 14:10.52 | choice | rotaticus: No access to the host. Can I use vmstat or iotop instead? |
| 14:11.22 | ratrace | choice: yes but you'd need to know some baseline in order to compare to that |
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| 14:12.11 | ratrace | choice: no wait, i read "iotop" as ioping .... ioptop/vmstat don't make much sense if the VM is idle, but you can observe the disk wait % under load ; ioping is a better check |
| 14:12.40 | ratrace | but again, you'll need a baseline |
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| 14:34.19 | ddevault | just set up debian on ppc64el |
| 14:34.32 | ddevault | but attempting to ssh into it gives: ssh_dispatch_run_fatal: Connection to [...]: incorrect signature |
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| 14:37.11 | ausjke | a programming newbie question, I open a uvc video file(e.g. /dev/video0), and start using that device file, how do I detect when that device file is gone reliably(e.g. unplug the uvc camera from usb port) |
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| 14:37.43 | ausjke | kernel probably will send some notification for usb-disconnect, how does the application capture it then release the file handler on /dev/video0 |
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| 14:43.56 | mrquincy | I'd like to host some open source data on my home web server, but only allow access to the files via token. Use case would be, someone fills out a web form, I check forms once a day and grant access with a token. The token should be associated with download limits that I define. Do we know of such a tool? I could put something together myself but I'd rather not. |
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| 15:02.04 | greycat | Well, THIS was fun. http://paste.debian.net/1093726/ |
| 15:02.12 | greycat | Anyone care to guess what the interface's name is now? |
| 15:02.57 | greycat | Yes, that's right! It's eno0! |
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| 15:08.40 | karlpinc | greycat: I recall some discussion of this sort of thing when I sent a patch in to the buster release notes to document that the buster default is to change "old style" interface names to the new naming scheme. Somebody put some magic into the release notes that are _supposed_ to let you be able to tell what the new interface name is going to be. |
| 15:08.47 | ssarah | greycat, no. |
| 15:09.00 | ssarah | i am talking what kind of steps you take after installing debian |
| 15:09.13 | ssarah | https://github.com/fullmooninu/manly_ubuntu/edit/master/server.bash |
| 15:09.27 | greycat | karlpinc: yes, I've been involved in that discussion. This is the first time that the new interface name DID NOT APPEAR anywhere in the output of that udevadm command. |
| 15:09.36 | ssarah | i use puppet and stuff for provisioning, i'm just trying to develop something good |
| 15:09.51 | ssarah | and simple. for friends and stuff |
| 15:10.42 | greycat | karlpinc: (for the record, it *does* appear after rebooting into buster, but by then it's a bit too late, eh) |
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| 15:12.06 | karlpinc | ssarah: Here's mine: http://paste.debian.net/1093727/ Haven't updated it in a while |
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| 15:13.16 | ssarah | ty karlpinc. looks big |
| 15:13.53 | karlpinc | ssarah: Probably has a bunch of stuff for older debian releases at the bottom. (Might want unbound instead of bind9.) |
| 15:16.27 | karlpinc | ssarah: (And, fwiw, I'd recommend turning off password logins in /etc/ssh/sshd_config and using keys instead. Then you don't worry about stuff like fail2ban, which can, possibly, lock out a legitimate user for a time.) |
| 15:16.34 | ratrace | greycat: i prefer ethX naming + a .link file that binds it to the macaddr ; never fails, never surprises, always predictable ;) |
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| 15:16.44 | ssarah | true true |
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| 15:16.57 | ssarah | but some users don't know how to use ssh |
| 15:17.09 | greycat | ratrace: yeah, I'm starting to lean that way myself. These "predictable" names are not predictable, which absolutely defeats the entire purpose. |
| 15:17.10 | ssarah | windows people and such |
| 15:17.18 | karlpinc | ssarah: What would they use instead? |
| 15:17.47 | karlpinc | ssarah: (sftp is ssh, and can use keys just fine.) |
| 15:17.47 | greycat | Windows people use VNC and RDP and they don't understand the concepts that we understand, and we don't understand the concepts that they use. It's maddening. |
| 15:17.53 | ssarah | they use putty to log in to the machines |
| 15:18.02 | ssarah | wiht a password |
| 15:18.07 | ratrace | greycat: btw, i used to use 'udevadm info' for output, inspect it visually, then decided which one it'd likely be, according to the order in the policy |
| 15:18.10 | greycat | ah, not a pure Windows user then |
| 15:18.16 | karlpinc | ssarah: Putty is ssh, it will use a key. |
| 15:18.34 | ssarah | karlpinc, but then i have to teach them how to key-gen |
| 15:18.44 | ssarah | actually i never even tried |
| 15:18.46 | karlpinc | ssarah: Those sorts of people usually need something set up for them anyway, so may as well set them up with a key. |
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| 15:19.02 | ratrace | greycat: eno0 suggests ID_NET_NAME_ONBOARD was used |
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| 15:19.23 | greycat | ratrace: yes, absolutely, so *why didn't that show up in the output* |
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| 15:19.29 | karlpinc | ssarah: Then when they choose a server in putty's connect menu, it just works. |
| 15:19.49 | karlpinc | ssarah: Anyway, not for me to tell you what will work for you. Just saying. |
| 15:19.57 | ssarah | yep yep, i gotcha |
| 15:20.05 | ratrace | greycat: are you sure it didn't in 'udevadm info /sys/class/...' ? i'm not familira with test-builting command of it |
| 15:20.14 | emilsp | What method does a bog-standard debian install use to setup an interface with DHCP? I've not installed literally anything, this is an install without any DEs or anything, I do not have NetworkManager, dhcpcd or anything else. I'm trying to figure out what is overwriting my /etc/resolv.conf |
| 15:20.22 | greycat | ratrace: I ran the thing that's in the release notes, which was shown in the paste. |
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| 15:20.33 | greycat | root@svr4:/# udevadm test-builtin net_id /sys/class/net/eth0 2>/dev/null |
| 15:20.50 | emilsp | I'm assuming that once in a while, some dhcpcd kind of a thing is reasserting it's dominance over my /etc/resolv.conf |
| 15:21.08 | karlpinc | ssarah: (Putty has a different key format and comes with a utilility that converts to openssh format. I forget the details.) |
| 15:21.14 | greycat | emilsp: https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf |
| 15:21.44 | ratrace | greycat: hrm... my eno3 on a server shows up there....: https://dpaste.de/pucD |
| 15:21.50 | greycat | emilsp: the literal answer is "most likely isc-dhcp-client" |
| 15:21.52 | karlpinc | emilsp: It's always networkmanager that breaks my network config. I always un-install. YMMV. |
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| 15:22.05 | emilsp | greycat: thanks, will have a look at dhclient |
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| 15:22.42 | greycat | ratrace: is that on stretch, or buster? |
| 15:22.46 | emilsp | karlpinc: I've not got NetworkManager installed. And it's actually quite easy to manage your DNS with NetworkManager if it's not using systemd-resolved underneath - there's a nice config file or a DBus RPC that sets a global DNS server list. |
| 15:22.53 | ratrace | greycat: buster |
| 15:23.02 | greycat | yeah, my output changed when I ran it again under buster |
| 15:23.13 | ratrace | oh lol |
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| 15:23.44 | greycat | under stretch it did not show the eno0 choice, so I edited /etc/network/interfaces and changed everything from eth0 to enp2s0 and ... |
| 15:23.51 | karlpinc | ssarah: I've given people a usb stick with a .bat file on it. They can click on it, and so long as putty is installed it will use the key on the stick to connect. Kinda-sorta secure against various MS Windows maladies. |
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| 15:24.22 | ratrace | greycat: and udev said "Oh no u won't, hahaha lolz, i win!" |
| 15:28.15 | ratrace | greycat: i think the problem is in capricious bioses and too much choice in the default policy . NamePolicy=keep kernel database onboard slot path yeah... onboard before path, you thought path would be used, it wasn't |
| 15:29.42 | ssarah | karlpinc, i don't treat them like babies. I just go here's your ip and password, for the app and for the server. |
| 15:29.46 | ssarah | use putty to get in |
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| 15:32.47 | karlpinc | ssarah: The usb stick is mostly to keep the key off-line until needed. Thing is, users's should have a single key -- a single identity. So hopefully you give them a key only once. |
| 15:34.24 | karlpinc | (And putty runs on debian, so you can do all the key generation etc. as automated as you like.) |
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| 15:36.08 | ratrace | putty on linux... why would anyone.... next you're gonna tell me someone's using bash on windows.... oh, wait. |
| 15:36.28 | karlpinc | also like assocating keys with specific commands, that do things like backup. Via command= in authorized_keys. |
| 15:36.46 | Habbie | ratrace, i know a bunch of putty-on-linux users, because it has a nice gui, and emulation consistent with what they're used to on windows |
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| 15:40.19 | karlpinc | Habbie: I know a guy who uses mc, because he won't get away from midnight commander after all these years. :) |
| 15:40.44 | Habbie | ack |
| 15:40.46 | Habbie | i'm fine with that :) |
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| 15:41.40 | ratrace | i used to love norton commander on dos ; these days i prefer ranger on linux |
| 15:43.35 | Mathisen | ratrace, may want to check out nnn also > https://github.com/jarun/nnn |
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| 15:45.04 | jhutchins_wk | I've very comfortable with console for ssh connections. Putty lacks history, so you can't connect to an arbitrary host, disconnect, then reconnect to the same host without having to enter the host name again. |
| 15:45.27 | ratrace | jhutchins_wk: does it not have saved profiles? |
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| 15:45.38 | jhutchins_wk | Not sure why that was never added. I've been known to run a Windows cmd shell just so I'll have history. |
| 15:45.41 | ratrace | or what's the terminology, been a while since i touched that on windows |
| 15:45.50 | jhutchins_wk | ratrace: Yes. I have 1500+ servers to manage. |
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| 15:46.24 | ratrace | ouch |
| 15:46.39 | ratrace | console and tab completion wins for that scale |
| 15:47.05 | ratrace | (any scale even ; call me old school but cli > gui for me ; faster, better, more flexible) |
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| 15:47.54 | jhutchins_wk | ratrace: Agreed. |
| 15:48.11 | domovoy | hi |
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| 15:49.50 | Mathisen | any info command for the bot ? to say the info about a package |
| 15:50.09 | greycat | Which info? Version numbers, or one-line description, or something else? |
| 15:50.16 | Mathisen | desciption |
| 15:50.18 | greycat | ,info bash |
| 15:50.19 | judd | Package bash (shells, required) in buster/amd64: GNU Bourne Again SHell. Version: 5.0-4; Size: 1345.3k; Installed: 6439k; Homepage: http://tiswww.case.edu/php/chet/bash/bashtop.html; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/bash |
| 15:50.28 | Mathisen | ,info dsh |
| 15:50.29 | judd | Package dsh (net, optional) in buster/amd64: dancer's shell, or distributed shell. Version: 0.25.10-1.4; Size: 37.0k; Installed: 108k |
| 15:50.40 | Mathisen | jhutchins_wk, |
| 15:51.03 | Mathisen | well it got loads of more info then that |
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| 15:54.52 | domovoy | i'm setting up kerberos/ldap, i use 'olcAuthzRegexp: "uid=([^/]*),cn=(.*),cn=GSSAPI,cn=auth" "ldap:///ou=people,ou=$2??one?(uid=$1)"' for mapping kerberos principals to ldap dn. Thing is, i can't find a correct olcAccess that would allow auth for these dn ('olcAccess: to * by anonymous auth' works, but what's the use of that? i want to restrict it to 'ldap:///ou=people,ou=$2??one?(uid=$1)'). Any idea how to debug the search done by slapd? |
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| 15:57.34 | greycat | Jul 31 11:57:01 svr4 imapd[2429]: /bin/sh: 1: /usr/bin/mkdir: not found |
| 15:57.38 | greycat | cute. |
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| 16:03.12 | greycat | Aha, already reported by someone else #922200 |
| 16:03.13 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/922200 in courier-imap (open): «courier-imap: /usr/bin/mkdir is invoked directly, failing on non-usrmerge'd systems»; severity: important; opened: 2019-02-13; last modified: 2019-03-09. |
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| 16:05.34 | greycat | edits the two scripts by hand, while waiting for the bug to be fixed... which was filed in ... February ... |
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| 16:06.23 | ratrace | greycat: why courier though, i think that's your first problem there :p |
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| 16:10.06 | greycat | I can't even remember why. It's been there for so long. |
| 16:10.21 | greycat | And since it's been working, the cardinal rules is "don't touch it". |
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| 16:14.19 | greycat | I suspect the predecessor to courier-imap on this system's predessor might have been UW imap, a long-ass time ago, but it's also possible that there wasn't any previous IMAP daemon, just POP3. I don't remember any more. |
| 16:14.48 | greycat | I'm fairly sure dovecot just Wasn't A Thing Yet, whenever the decision was made. |
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| 16:15.46 | ratrace | that's a very long time then :) |
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| 16:18.25 | greycat | My notes for the predecessory system only go back as far as "2009-05-12: Upgraded to Debian 5.0.1", nothing about choosing the IMAP service. |
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| 16:19.53 | GNU\colossus | hehe |
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| 16:29.05 | AlpacaFace | Wulf: Sorry I didnt get a chance to respond last night.. Yes the libglib-object-introspection-perl worked for irssi desktop-notify. Thanks much. Debian wiki advised not to mess with perl structure, so I didnt think wise to tinker too much with it myself. Appreciate it :) |
| 16:30.48 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: Dovecot's been a pain since I first installed it. Incompatible config files, configuration items that do NOT work as documented, etc. |
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| 16:34.40 | indibart | hi there folks. I'm trying to set up my laptop with debian buster. the problem i'm facing is that it will only boot when i change something in the boot parameters... can anybody help me to solf this? |
| 16:35.03 | greycat | put whatever it needs into the boot parameters, permanently |
| 16:35.18 | greycat | (edit /etc/default/grub and run update-grub) |
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| 16:38.56 | Habbie | yes |
| 16:39.03 | Habbie | indibart, what boot parameters are these? |
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| 16:39.39 | indibart | :-) sorry i wasn't clear: I tried the parameter and it worked (booted). So I change the boot parameters permanently just the way you said. But then it didn't work anymore. So I tried something else again in the boot menu. And this also made it boot. I made it permanant. Again it didn't work... |
| 16:39.50 | Habbie | oh |
| 16:39.52 | Habbie | well that's special |
| 16:40.54 | indibart | I tried iommu=soft, then iommu=pt, then tried if it's a problem with acpi, so acpi=off, acpi=Linux... |
| 16:42.16 | Habbie | i run with acpi_osi=Linux |
| 16:42.24 | Habbie | just mentioning that as a random thing you can try |
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| 16:45.35 | indibart | so acutally i always get the same error but sometimes (when i change something) it ignores it and boots anyway. The error ist ACPI BIOS ERROR (bug): Could not resolve [\_SB.PCI0.LPC0.EC0], AE_NOT_FOUND (20180810/dswload2-160) |
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| 16:46.29 | indibart | @Habbie: yes, sorry, I meant acpi_osi=Linux. It worked, once... |
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| 16:46.52 | Habbie | indibart, ah |
| 16:47.02 | Habbie | i have a few AE_NOT_FOUND errors too, i think |
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| 16:53.31 | noodlepie | I am having no joy getting sound to work on Debain 10/Stable - I have an AMD/Intel SB Azalia card which shows up in "aplay -l" but the GNOME sound settings only shows "Dummy Sound Output" |
| 16:53.37 | noodlepie | For some reason the Realtek codec is loaded but no ALC codec? |
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| 16:54.15 | petn-randall | noodlepie: Sounds like something grabbed your audio before pulseaudio could. |
| 16:55.54 | LtL | !timidity pulseaudio |
| 16:55.54 | dpkg | Some users have had <timidity> blocking access to their sound card, resulting in <pulseaudio> only seeing a dummy output. Check if timidity is running with 'systemctl status timidity' and stop/disable with 'systemctl stop timidity ; systemctl disable timidity' and/or remove the timidity-daemon package. |
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| 16:56.04 | noodlepie | https://bpaste.net/show/j9i8 |
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| 17:22.39 | omnio | Hi, this page seems to describe a very simple way of switching from systemd to sysvinit in Stretch: https://wiki.debian.org/Init |
| 17:22.42 | omnio | has anyone tried it? is it safe? |
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| 17:25.14 | greycat | I don't know how many people have tried it in buster, since buster is still so new. |
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| 17:26.30 | ratrace | devuan beowulf is based on buster |
| 17:27.18 | weedloser | probably not gonna release anytime soon though is it? |
| 17:27.42 | omnio | I see, thanks. Anyway, I think it's great you can do that in Debian, in some other distros you just can't |
| 17:28.43 | ratrace | i thought it was a pita to go systemd-less in debian? why else would devuan go the effort... |
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| 17:29.19 | greycat | Replacing systemd as PID 1 in Debian doesn't remove all of the other pieces of systemd. Devuan tries to remove *every* single lingering piece of it, everywhere. |
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| 17:30.21 | ratrace | greycat: ah yes i think i've read about exactly that somewhere |
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| 17:33.16 | Akuw | anybody here knows monit? |
| 17:33.37 | Akuw | is a daemon? because i cant find it using ps -e |
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| 17:34.35 | greycat | ,info monit |
| 17:34.36 | judd | No package named 'monit' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 17:34.52 | greycat | !monir |
| 17:34.53 | greycat | !monit |
| 17:35.03 | dpkg | Monit is a utility for monitoring services on a Unix system, performing actions (e.g. service restart via init script) when issues are detected. http://mmonit.com/wiki/Monit/FAQ http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/269 http://mmonit.com/monit/ See also <nagios>. |
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| 17:41.47 | Akuw | is there any documentation about linux logs structure ? i mean, un understand each line |
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| 17:42.31 | greycat | what "structure"? programs write information they think is worth writing. |
| 17:43.10 | greycat | Usually each line is a self-contained message, but not always. Sometimes a message is too large and will span several lines. |
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| 17:48.11 | Bushmills | generally, first column contains the date. sometimes as epoch. This is about as common to most log files as it gets |
| 17:48.54 | greycat | "There is often a timestamp at the start of each line" is pretty much it, yes. The timestamp formats are wildly inconsistent. |
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| 17:50.23 | zophyx | how can i start X from the 'debian live standard cd' ? |
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| 17:50.32 | Bushmills | try startx |
| 17:50.37 | zophyx | nopd |
| 17:50.41 | zophyx | nope |
| 17:51.05 | greycat | You tried and it said...? |
| 17:51.14 | zophyx | command not found |
| 17:51.21 | greycat | Then it's probably not *there*. |
| 17:51.35 | zophyx | i see X libs are on the cd |
| 17:51.42 | greycat | Is the x server on it? |
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| 17:52.00 | Akuw | look for Xorg |
| 17:52.04 | ratrace | startx requires xinit package installed |
| 17:52.23 | Bushmills | startx is provided by package xinit - i though that came with debian live |
| 17:52.31 | ratrace | i don't think startx is supported any more |
| 17:52.55 | greycat | They said "debian live standard cd". Whatever that is. If it's related to the "Standard" selection in tasksel, there will not be any X server stuff. |
| 17:53.13 | greycat | ratrace: incorrect. I use startx. |
| 17:53.19 | greycat | LOTS of people use startx. |
| 17:53.31 | ratrace | i didn't say it doesn't work, just that it's not supported any more |
| 17:53.48 | ratrace | you probably had to fiddle with /dev permissions for gpu, audio, input, etc... |
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| 17:53.53 | greycat | What evidence do you have to claim that it's not supported? |
| 17:54.14 | Bushmills | well, it's just a script |
| 17:54.25 | Bushmills | not much support needed |
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| 17:55.50 | zophyx | greycat, i see no xserver package, but there is a x11-common package |
| 17:56.06 | ratrace | because startx does not deal with device permissions ; sure you can do it manually but... you can also compile packages from tarball -- is that supported? perhaps i'm using "supported" here to mean "blessed" by distro tooling, config, defaults |
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| 17:56.22 | zophyx | all sorts of X packages |
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| 17:56.41 | greycat | "all sorts" of x libraries only? as dependencies? |
| 17:56.57 | greycat | No X server, no window manager, no basic X utilities, no X terminals, ...? |
| 17:57.56 | greycat | As I said before, based on the *NAME* of this thing alone, never having heard of it before, I would guess it means "it has only the packages you would get if you chose Standard during the installation". |
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| 17:58.09 | greycat | Which would not include X. |
| 17:58.24 | greycat | It may include X *libraries* as dependencies of things in Standard, but that's very different. |
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| 18:01.02 | weedloser | i know it's just wishful thinking but i really hope there would be a more centralised effort on making debian truly universal, make it compatible with different init systems |
| 18:01.04 | Bushmills | also, "starting X" implies needing an X server, while it can make perfect sense to not have one, even though some X clients are installed |
| 18:01.41 | greycat | weedloser: Please feel free to test different init systems and see how it goes. |
| 18:01.47 | Bushmills | though a bit unusual for a minimal installation |
| 18:01.54 | greycat | Probably not on important production servers. |
| 18:02.32 | ratrace | weedloser: no. i'm already complaining that due to debian's policy to support sysv, systemd units for services are NOT utilizing all they possibly could :: too many cooks spoil the broth |
| 18:02.37 | greycat | Bushmills: it requires an X server, various drivers both in the kernel and in X11-userspace, fonts, and a basic set of client programs (window manager, etc.). |
| 18:03.00 | greycat | And very likely firmware. |
| 18:03.14 | weedloser | it's sad it has to be that way |
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| 18:03.28 | Bushmills | yes, to "start X" in the most common sense. But X server isn't a dependency of X clients |
| 18:03.44 | weedloser | but aside from possibly gentoo this is one of the only 'modular' and portable distros out there, i love it |
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| 18:03.52 | greycat | Bushmills: I'm talking reality here. A "live cd". If you want to start X, that means you need all the stuff I mentioned. |
| 18:03.54 | weedloser | certainly on the binary side |
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| 18:04.36 | greycat | MOST LIKELY this "debian live standard" thing does not have X. Or X fonts. Or X drivers. Or X window managers. Or X terminals. Or the scripts to start the X server. |
| 18:04.52 | twobitsprite | Just curious, why are /bin/bash and /usr/bin/bash copies of each other, instead of links? |
| 18:05.00 | greycat | twobitsprite: `ls -ld /bin /usr/bin |
| 18:05.21 | twobitsprite | greycat: oh yeah, derp :P thanks |
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| 18:12.56 | uxfi | Hi Anyoen here can provide help I am on Debian 10 and have issues with Dovecot https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=233452 |
| 18:12.58 | uxfi | this issue |
| 18:13.02 | eb0t_ | hey twobitsprite /bin contains programs needed in single user mode and to bring hte ssystem up or repair it ... /usr/bin is like a general directory for executables |
| 18:13.17 | greycat | eb0t_: except, that's not true any more in a new buster installation. |
| 18:13.28 | uxfi | it keeps giving me a issue.. with I have dovecot |
| 18:13.30 | uxfi | says fialed SSL... |
| 18:13.35 | eb0t_ | ah ok |
| 18:13.49 | uxfi | I hada another issue which I fixed as I restored a previosu backu pof debian 9 /etc file I had |
| 18:13.54 | uxfi | but now I face this SSL issue... :/ |
| 18:13.57 | uxfi | what do I do? |
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| 18:15.25 | Habbie | uxfi, what did you set ssl_dh to? |
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| 18:15.55 | uxfi | is that a conf file? |
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| 18:16.34 | dvs | uxfi, it's in the conf file |
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| 18:17.14 | uxfi | uhhh |
| 18:17.18 | uxfi | elt me see |
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| 18:17.55 | uxfi | Habbie; this db file is in et/c/dovecot? |
| 18:18.13 | Habbie | uxfi, it's in one of your config files |
| 18:18.34 | uxfi | Habbie; you mean in /etc/ssl or what? |
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| 18:18.56 | Habbie | uxfi, it's in one of your dovecot config files |
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| 18:19.18 | uxfi | oh |
| 18:19.23 | Habbie | uxfi, also, can you show us the -full- error message? |
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| 18:20.09 | uxfi | uh |
| 18:20.09 | uxfi | sure |
| 18:20.11 | uxfi | hwo do I do that? |
| 18:20.19 | uxfi | sorry I really have a basic doevecotpostfix setup |
| 18:20.33 | Habbie | you say it says 'failed ssl' |
| 18:20.34 | uxfi | I beleive when I ugpraded to debian 10 I hit "use package maitnaierns version" my msitake |
| 18:20.35 | Habbie | i bet it says more than that |
| 18:20.44 | uxfi | ok |
| 18:20.47 | uxfi | Hwo do I get it to say more? |
| 18:20.49 | uxfi | er show more? |
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| 18:20.54 | Habbie | it should already do that |
| 18:20.59 | uxfi | ok |
| 18:21.01 | Habbie | can you show the full screen you see it on perhaps? |
| 18:21.26 | uxfi | one minute |
| 18:21.26 | uxfi | yes |
| 18:21.35 | uxfi | Thank you by the way |
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| 18:21.43 | uxfi | I really try to keep my mail server setup simple |
| 18:21.50 | uxfi | first time Iv'e ran itno any issues as im nw to it |
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| 18:23.36 | uxfi | oops |
| 18:23.45 | uxfi | Habbie; https://pastebin.com/MixxDWvv |
| 18:23.47 | uxfi | here you go |
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| 18:24.57 | uxfi | I hoep that helps |
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| 18:27.18 | Habbie | ok |
| 18:27.24 | Habbie | that's not the same issue as in that forum post |
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| 18:27.30 | Habbie | i also agree it's not a very useful error |
| 18:27.48 | Habbie | i suggest /join #dovecot |
| 18:27.52 | Habbie | they'll know better what that error might mean |
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| 18:29.45 | Habbie | uxfi, btw, what happened to your hostname in that log? |
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| 18:30.14 | uxfi | Habbie; privacy ... |
| 18:30.36 | Habbie | uxfi, ok - editing things may make it harder to help, just to be clear |
| 18:31.06 | uxfi | sure |
| 18:31.09 | uxfi | eh its a publci site |
| 18:31.13 | uxfi | I guss I cna keep it in heh |
| 18:31.48 | uxfi | Habbie; Like i said I think when i was doing the Buster ugprade I selected use pakcage mainters version did that screw it up/ |
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| 18:31.57 | uxfi | Do you think if I restored to my Stretch Backup then it'll be fine/ |
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| 18:32.48 | Habbie | uxfi, i don't know - you asked in #dovecot, let's not confuse the matter by trying things from two channels |
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| 18:33.30 | uxfi | ok |
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| 18:43.40 | pumba | hi |
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| 19:15.13 | jebediah_scrooge | Hey guys! Thanks for providing a #debian channel :-* I've just one question. I'm scratching my head about the command /bin/echo p@ssw0rd | /usr/bin/sshfs -o password_stdin,reconnect,ServerAliveInterval=15,ServerAliveCountMax=3,allow_other,idmap=user user@ssh-server:/tmp /media/sshfs/ is working properly when I use it normally in terminal but not when I try to use it as a ExecStart command in Systed Service nor as a |
| 19:15.13 | jebediah_scrooge | command in /etc/rc.local I cannot use fstab just because key auth is not enabled on the respective SSH server :( Due to this circumstance I have to find another way to mount the SSHFS on another way. Is there anything fundamental wrong with the statement? I would appreciate any helping hand!! |
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| 19:22.57 | farisMA | hi, i need help installing lm_sensors on debian buster bu i dont find it in the repository |
| 19:23.31 | Habbie | ,v lm-sensors |
| 19:23.32 | judd | Package: lm-sensors on amd64 -- jessie: 1:3.3.5-2; stretch: 1:3.4.0-4; bullseye: 1:3.5.0-3; buster: 1:3.5.0-3; sid: 1:3.5.0-3 |
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| 19:23.53 | greycat | package names may not contain _ characters, so the pkg name uses - instead |
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| 19:24.17 | farisMA | yaay its working thx :) |
| 19:24.20 | Habbie | yay |
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| 19:39.16 | karlpinc | jebediah_scrooge: Probably having to do with whether or not a tty exists, or something. It is bad practice to try to feed ssh a password like that. Better is to use public/private keys. |
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| 19:40.44 | greycat | Who are these idiots who disable key auth on their ssh servers.... |
| 19:40.44 | karlpinc | jebediah_scrooge: There might even be code in ssh itself that prevents such usage when not in an interactive shell. Dunno. |
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| 19:41.28 | Habbie | programs like ssh and sudo tend to open the console explicitly to get passwords |
| 19:41.37 | Habbie | which means tools like 'expect' fake a pty to be able to put passwords in anyway |
| 19:41.59 | Habbie | i'm surprised jebediah_scrooge's echo works in a terminal |
| 19:42.13 | greycat | Yes. In the absolute WORST possible case, where your ssh server is managed by an idiot, or is so hideously ancient that it lacks any kind of security, you write an expect script to hack around it. |
| 19:42.13 | Habbie | ah |
| 19:42.16 | Habbie | -o password_stdin |
| 19:42.26 | Habbie | greycat, indeed |
| 19:42.36 | jebediah_scrooge | @karlpinc, Thanks for your reply! I know that but pub/priv key auth is unfortunately not possible. Running the command in terminal works fine and as expected. So I'm assuming the issue is not related to the SSH daemon itself. |
| 19:42.49 | Habbie | why is key auth not possible? |
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| 19:43.14 | greycat | You saying things like "not possible" without saying "because it's Acme router OS version 1.3 and it only has password auth" leaves me doubtful. |
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| 19:44.54 | greycat | Also, for the love of glob, DO NOT ever utter the word /bin/echo in any script. |
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| 19:45.02 | greycat | Use "echo". |
| 19:45.15 | greycat | BETTER STILL, use printf. |
| 19:45.32 | greycat | You can't be sure echo won't mangle the various punctuation characters in your password. |
| 19:45.42 | jebediah_scrooge | @Habbie, When I created priv/pub keys and stored it (pub) into the authorized_keys file on the server (~/.ssh) the server is expecting a password furthermore |
| 19:45.46 | uRock | ronnie@Number-Zero:~$ echo printf |
| 19:45.46 | uRock | printf |
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| 19:46.32 | greycat | So it's not a router. It's some kind of unix. |
| 19:46.33 | uRock | Doesn't work the other way around, though |
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| 19:49.43 | greycat | Given that it's some kind of unix, you can investigate it. You can find out what OS it is. What version of ssh it's running. You may be able to read the configuration file. You may even have root, in which case you can do things like running sshd in debug mode for additional information about why it's rejecting your key auth attempts. |
| 19:50.02 | greycat | Or even reading the existing logs for additional info. |
| 19:50.52 | greycat | It's worth putting some time into this, because if you can get key auth working, all your current problems just go away. You create a keypair with no passphrase, and you can use that in your scripts. |
| 19:51.34 | Habbie | jebediah_scrooge, then the server is misconfigured |
| 19:51.41 | annadane | i swear to fscking god i don't understand virt-manager. sometimes it works when you don't add your user to the libvirt group (it just prompts for root password, then it works), sometimes it doesn't... on openbox i got a message about being unable to use it due to missing polkit or something and now that i launched it again it will just stubbornly say "not connected"... |
| 19:52.04 | jebediah_scrooge | @greycat, Not I can't ... I've got no permissions like that. No shell access, just file transfer |
| 19:52.10 | greycat | Habbie: or he's made a mistake in the permissions... |
| 19:52.16 | Habbie | yes |
| 19:52.25 | Habbie | that also counts as misconfiguration, but on another level |
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| 19:53.25 | jebediah_scrooge | I can run the command in terminal and everything is mounted as expected. But bringing up the "device" at startup doesn't work. I don't know why |
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| 19:54.24 | greycat | Well, you either go down the "figure out why key auth isn't working" road, which involves checking permissions and everything as far as you can, and then possibly asking the admin... or you throw away what you have and write it in expect the way you should have in the first place. |
| 19:54.48 | greycat | There is no proper solution that involves "echo password | ssh" in a shell script. |
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| 19:55.56 | annadane | actually never mind, i'm just being stupid |
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| 20:09.42 | xxStarAngelxx | Hello. Come and watch my Live Show (Username: xxStarAngelxx) and let's have fun together ----> https://3no.ro/XXXCams ⥠|
| 20:09.50 | alkisg | jebediah_scrooge: echo passwd | sshfs works fine for me when I run it via pam, so it should work fine from rc.local as well: https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/blob/master/ltsp/client/login/pamltsp#L142 |
| 20:10.14 | greycat | dies a little more inside |
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| 20:10.45 | alkisg | greycat, if you endorse "expect", it really is the wrong way to go... |
| 20:11.14 | alkisg | ssh_askpass for ssh, and passwd_stdin are the recommended ways; screen scraping is the workaround |
| 20:12.17 | alkisg | jebediah_scrooge: note though that sshfs needs access to ~/.ssh; e.g. make sure that HOME exists and stuff like that |
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| 20:17.06 | jhutchins_wk | Has anyone mentioned using the verbose option to diagnose the failure? |
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| 20:18.03 | greycat | That almost never works from the client, but the fact that he never even *offered* the -v output for someone to read for him tells me a lot. |
| 20:18.47 | greycat | Even my not-very-subtle hints about getting info about the remote system went totally unanswered. |
| 20:19.21 | greycat | We're just supposed to take on faith that he must use password authentication. No proof given. |
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| 20:19.52 | jhutchins_wk | I wonder if ssh_copy_id works if the system's locked down to sftp? |
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| 20:20.31 | greycat | I very much doubt it. |
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| 20:23.23 | greycat | "OK, I saw your concerns about permissions, so I sshfs mounted the thing, and here's a paste of ls -ld / /home /home/me /home/me/.ssh /home/me/.ssh/authorized_keys, and as you can see, none of the permissions look wrong". |
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| 20:23.38 | greycat | Did we get anything like that? No. |
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| 20:24.27 | greycat | "It's not a router. It's running AIX 6.4 with OpenSSH 4.1 (yeah I know, ancient as Rome) and when I asked the admin, he said he can't upgrade it, and it's rejecting all the modern key types because it doesn't know about them." |
| 20:24.31 | greycat | Did we get that? Nope. |
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| 20:44.35 | alkisg | Whoops, /me only read the question above, not the whole chat :) |
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| 20:50.05 | lope | ratrace, I think it was you who was telling me recently, that /etc/crypttab hints to grub or luks or whatever what to ask you for the password for, to try mount |
| 20:50.35 | lope | Does /etc/crypttab get read at the time when grub is being installed? |
| 20:50.56 | karlpinc | lope: It'd be in the initramfs. |
| 20:51.22 | lope | and the initramfs gets setup according to /etc/crypttab? |
| 20:51.27 | karlpinc | lope: Maybe: zless /usr/share/doc/cryptsetup/README.Debian.gz |
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| 20:52.15 | [sr] | howdy |
| 20:52.19 | [sr] | just an info, |
| 20:52.34 | [sr] | any idea or who can i ask, when mysql8 will be available in sid? |
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| 20:52.45 | Habbie | [sr], probably the debian mysql maintainers |
| 20:52.50 | Habbie | ,v mysql-server |
| 20:52.51 | judd | Package: mysql-server on amd64 -- jessie: 5.5.60-0+deb8u1; jessie-security: 5.5.62-0+deb8u1; stretch: 5.5.9999+default; sid: 5.7.26-1 |
| 20:53.12 | [sr] | thanks Habbie |
| 20:53.23 | [sr] | that feature for the bot is cool :P |
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| 20:54.19 | [sr] | ,v php |
| 20:54.20 | judd | Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; bullseye: 2:7.3+69; buster: 2:7.3+69; sid: 2:7.3+69 |
| 20:54.21 | lope | karlpinc, thanks |
| 20:54.49 | greycat | Am I the only one wishing it would show buster before bullseye? |
| 20:55.16 | karlpinc | sr: The name of the bot is judd, you can: /msg judd v php |
| 20:55.31 | karlpinc | sr: This avoids splatting stuff into the channel. |
| 20:55.31 | greycat | (if it's sorting by version strings and then alphabetically by release name to break ties, that's fine, it'll diverge eventually) |
| 20:56.02 | Habbie | greycat, no :) |
| 20:56.26 | [sr] | karlpinc: cool thanks, i'll! |
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| 21:18.55 | krackhead | Tru. Sign up for mint mobile, sir. http://fbuy.me/m4BqI That link gets you $30 off. Cheapest and best service around. $60 for 6 months 8gb data per month unlimited calls and texts. Then $30 off your renewal after that. When you renew 3gb is $15 per month and 8gb is $20. Its a steal. http://fbuy.me/m4BqI |
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| 21:20.17 | ratrace | lope: yeah, crypttab is used by initramfs-tools scripts |
| 21:21.03 | Habbie | hmm |
| 21:21.31 | Habbie | does that mean that whatever i put into crypttab is copied into initramfs? |
| 21:21.37 | Habbie | unsecured? |
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| 21:32.02 | lope | ratrace, thanks bud |
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| 21:43.18 | ratrace | lol wth is wrong with load in buster, or is it kernel 4.19 .... single python process writing to btrfs atop of two dm-crypt devices (in raid1), and load is 22, all from kworker threads in D state. one process, load 22..... |
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| 21:46.00 | Habbie | is the python process threaded? |
| 21:46.09 | ratrace | no |
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| 22:08.42 | mrjpaxton | Question: How would I report an out of date Debian package? (I'm also asking for Unstable in #debian-next, but haven't gotten a response back yet.) |
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| 22:09.59 | Bushmills | "out of date" in buster? |
| 22:10.39 | saptech | mrjpaxton, just a thought. mailing list, email the maintainer etc |
| 22:10.46 | dvs | mrjpaxton, raise a ticket for that package? |
| 22:10.57 | saptech | yea, bugzilla |
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| 22:13.47 | mrjpaxton | Okay. Yeah, it's for telegram-desktop. There's quite a bit of features that are unsupported. Thing is, I've tried out the Flatpak version of it, but the problem is that it freezes when opening a file, so I've filed a bug on Github for that one, too. |
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| 22:15.53 | saptech | check bugzilla, maybe a ticket has already been done with ideas |
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| 22:17.01 | Bushmills | buster to sid all have same version of telegram-desktop |
| 22:18.12 | Bushmills | there's 1.7 which has been uploaded to experimental - but don't hold your breath until that trickles down |
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| 22:18.49 | Bushmills | (if it ever will) |
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| 22:19.57 | Bushmills | (means: not much use reporting that) |
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| 22:23.25 | mrjpaxton | Okay... Well I sent an E-mail to the maintainer asking about it, anyway. |
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| 22:44.32 | rebellion47 | test |
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