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| 08:40.02 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 08:40.53 | half-beard | ratrace, I've seen people doing fancy switches to update-initramfs. I normally just do -u. But I've seen people mentioning -k and -v etc |
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| 08:42.26 | ratrace | half-beard: -u suffices ; -k is if you want specific or all kernels' initramfs-es updated |
| 08:42.44 | half-beard | okay |
| 08:42.46 | half-beard | thanks |
| 08:43.09 | half-beard | ratrace, I read this last night, is it necessary? To force the cryptsetup modules to the initramfs image you have to set CRYPTSETUP=y in /etc/cryptsetup-initramfs/conf-hook. |
| 08:43.31 | half-beard | (I've not done that) |
| 08:44.14 | ratrace | half-beard: read that file :) |
| 08:44.46 | ratrace | half-beard: note that in initramfs-tools, hooks are functions exec'd when you construct the initramfs, and scripts are execed when initramfs is run |
| 08:45.15 | ratrace | so hooks are used to build and prepare initramfs, scripts are run to do whatever it takes to mount the rootfs |
| 08:45.48 | half-beard | I see, so that file is only for some more complicated setup than mine? |
| 08:46.12 | ratrace | yeah ; it's autodetected and you don't need to force that variable |
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| 08:46.55 | half-beard | okay, I finished everything. It should in theory be bootable |
| 08:47.16 | half-beard | I saw a command on the interwebs last night, relating to cryptsetup, that will check if my setup looks bootable |
| 08:47.21 | half-beard | Do you know what it is? |
| 08:47.27 | half-beard | (lost the URL) |
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| 08:48.54 | ratrace | sure, what is it |
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| 08:49.14 | half-beard | I lost the URL, was in a private tab on my phone |
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| 08:50.14 | ratrace | oh, well... :) |
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| 08:53.50 | half-beard | hehe, gonna reboot :) |
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| 08:54.42 | ratrace | sacrifice a goat first, just in case |
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| 08:57.08 | half-beard | haha, ratrace: I just remembered to check the UUIDs in /boot/grub/grub.cfg I've got search --fs-uuid blah blah then the UUID of the /boot partition |
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| 08:57.41 | half-beard | and then there's a linux /vmlinuz line that has root= UUID of my ext4 filesystem in my LUKS partititon |
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| 08:58.10 | half-beard | but the UUID of my luks partition is NOT contained in grub.cfg |
| 08:58.12 | half-beard | is that okay? |
| 08:58.30 | ratrace | yes, of the luks container itself? that's only in crypttab, grub doesn't deal with it |
| 08:58.38 | half-beard | okay |
| 08:58.43 | half-beard | Fair enough. Good to confirm |
| 08:58.47 | half-beard | Okay rebooting. |
| 08:58.51 | half-beard | X) |
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| 09:13.23 | half-beard | Sorted, booted with ease :) thanks ratrace! |
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| 09:14.18 | half-beard | I forgot to create a user account and now need to setup networking etc but just connected to IRC from my phone now to say thanks! |
| 09:14.51 | half-beard | When I get back to the PC I'll sort I'll finish the rest of the setup. |
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| 09:15.51 | ratrace | cool |
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| 09:16.31 | half-beard | What's a good way to backup my fresh install once its working nicely? Rsync and exclude dev proc sys mnt and so on? |
| 09:16.53 | half-beard | It's just an ext4 on luks. Decided to keep it simple. |
| 09:17.15 | half-beard | So there's no ZFS or LVM snapshots possible. |
| 09:17.35 | ratrace | take a look at rsnapshot |
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| 09:17.55 | half-beard | Is it an apt package? |
| 09:18.12 | ratrace | !info rsnapshot |
| 09:18.19 | dpkg | rsnapshot: (local and remote filesystem snapshot utility), section utils, is optional. Version: 1.4.2-1 (sid), Packaged size: 127 kB, Installed size: 452 kB |
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| 09:19.01 | finn0 | ayekat: May be we can propose this to developers of `Bash`. |
| 09:19.22 | half-beard | Brilliant. Okay. Will check it out. I'm guessing it's going to be a nicer experience than rsync |
| 09:19.49 | ayekat | finn0: propose what? changing the sequence of sourcing files? |
| 09:20.10 | finn0 | yep. |
| 09:20.11 | ayekat | finn0: I believe there's too many configurations these days that would be broken by that |
| 09:21.07 | centrix | alkisg, Thanks for hints. Samba is working again. |
| 09:21.17 | finn0 | ayekat: I didn't get this "too many configurations these days". Could you rephrase it? |
| 09:21.29 | alkisg | centrix: np; I don't know samba, so I was only able to help with apt :) |
| 09:21.40 | centrix | Fair enough :) |
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| 09:22.50 | ayekat | finn0: well, users expect bash to behave in a certain way (in particular: to source a certain set of configuration files in a certain order) |
| 09:23.30 | ayekat | finn0: if bash suddenly started sourcing different things in a different order, those expectations would no longer be valid |
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| 09:24.05 | finn0 | yeah backward compatibility. |
| 09:24.20 | finn0 | is a issue. |
| 09:24.24 | half-beard | Ratrace, you said you run ZFS for root. Would you do this for your laptop? How do you know the next kernel update won't break ZFS? |
| 09:25.21 | finn0 | Does Debian have support for ZFS filesystem? |
| 09:25.26 | ratrace | half-beard: i used to run zfs on laptop, but it was freebsd ; i wouldn't run Zfs on on linux on a laptop, no |
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| 09:25.46 | ratrace | kernel update breaking zfs, well, you roll back :) |
| 09:25.47 | half-beard | Yeah, I figured it's a bad idea |
| 09:25.55 | ratrace | finn0: yes, but it's buggy |
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| 09:26.38 | half-beard | Haha. But then if you've got urgent work to do you have to plug in your USB boot drive that you hopefully remembered to bring with you on the road. Boot that and then proceed to do unexpected maintenance. |
| 09:26.49 | finn0 | ratrace, ayekat okay thanks. |
| 09:27.44 | ratrace | half-beard: on the servers where we use zfs root, we have scripts in initramfs, due to luks unlocking over ssh, those scripts can easily revert the snapshot if something was broken |
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| 10:12.36 | kreyren | recommends half-beard to grow full-beard |
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| 10:17.50 | ZaZaGX | sounds like a debian program |
| 10:17.57 | half-beard | Ratrace, that's interesting, what kind of scripts? Bash? What's the limit of what can be run in initramfs? What determines the limits? |
| 10:18.21 | half-beard | Ratrace, is it possible to use dropbear unlock with WiFi or Bluetooth? |
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| 10:22.20 | ratrace | half-beard: sure, i don't know if there are wpa_supplicant hooks by default, but one can always write one, it's just shell scripts |
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| 10:24.05 | ratrace | half-beard: there aren't limits more than there are for regular root, except it being a ramfs. |
| 10:25.17 | ratrace | half-beard: initramfs is literally just an "/init" script in the ramfs, that the kernel executes ; that scripts loads others that autodetect environment with the sole purpose to mount the real rootfs and pivots to it |
| 10:25.59 | ratrace | writing your own is a piece of cake too, if you understand how it all works: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Custom_Initramfs/Examples |
| 10:26.35 | ratrace | and with initramfs-tools it's even easier as it provides a framework so you just have to write much simpler hooks and scripts, not the entire logic of it |
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| 10:42.12 | CrazyTux | how can I get the ban on me removed on ##linux? |
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| 10:51.16 | Wulf | CrazyTux: ask sauvin if they're willing to lift it. And apologize for your behaviour :-) |
| 10:51.40 | CrazyTux | sauvin: are you there? |
| 10:52.09 | CrazyTux | sauvin: can you get the ban on me on ##linux lifted? |
| 10:53.03 | jelly | CrazyTux, ask in ##linux-ops, not here. Thanks. |
| 10:53.17 | CrazyTux | ok |
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| 11:29.06 | AinNero | hello, could someone help me reproduce a thing? |
| 11:29.10 | AinNero | download http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/netboot.tar.gz |
| 11:29.24 | AinNero | and then run debian-installer/amd64[0]: qemu-system-x86_64 -kernel linux -initrd initrd.gz |
| 11:30.32 | AinNero | because its ending up in a kernel panic for me and this does seem quite big to be broken |
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| 11:33.25 | AinNero | error behavior is like /init in the initramfs fails on execve, http://w1r3.net/paste/JYyQnf.txt |
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| 11:43.41 | klys | requested init /bin/ash failed (error -2) |
| 11:44.08 | ratrace | same here |
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| 11:44.39 | ratrace | AinNero: if you're gonna run it with qemu-system-x86_64, why just not use the regular iso? also... stretch? |
| 11:44.51 | klys | -ENOENT |
| 11:44.52 | ratrace | regular = netinstall |
| 11:45.05 | AinNero | ratrace: im doing netboot from the netboot.tar.gz files |
| 11:45.14 | klys | which means some library was not found... |
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| 11:45.30 | AinNero | recently all automated installs in my company started failing, both for stretch and for buster |
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| 11:45.35 | AinNero | which we are currently migrating |
| 11:45.36 | ratrace | AinNero: oh, right |
| 11:46.13 | klys | and would you know, /etc/ld.so.conf is missing in the initrd |
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| 11:49.45 | centrix | I update permissions for a directory to a user u:user1:rwx /dir and file like u:user1:rw- /dir/* ; Still he gets "permission denied". The file content gets updated though. :) What is wrong. No haul in journalctl |
| 11:49.51 | centrix | Deb10 |
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| 11:50.23 | centrix | setfacl |
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| 11:52.05 | centrix | The dir and the files are located here : "/dev/mapper/vg_root-v0 / ext4 errors=remount-ro 0 1" |
| 11:52.11 | centrix | fstab |
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| 11:54.52 | centrix | The user is an AD user. He logs in with no problems + default shell. |
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| 11:56.39 | klys | ainnero, http://show.ing.me/paste/stretch-initrd.gz |
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| 11:57.24 | AinNero | klys: is that a fixed one? |
| 11:57.34 | klys | yes |
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| 11:57.55 | afernandez | Hello at this time I am using a debian server, is there a reason or how can i fix why the following command works from command line but not within a script? rm -- *.zip |
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| 11:58.11 | AinNero | klys: getting HTTP 429 there from different IP's |
| 11:58.38 | klys | ainnero, http://45.55.20.239/paste/stretch-initrd.gz well it requires a browser |
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| 12:02.43 | klys | afernandez, what's the first line of your script? |
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| 12:03.18 | afernandez | klys: #!/bin/bash |
| 12:03.38 | klys | not too sure, see #bash |
| 12:04.01 | afernandez | they hate me there they say im a vampire and a dumb fuck. thanks anyway |
| 12:04.32 | half-beard2 | sounds about right for #bash |
| 12:06.07 | klys | have you tried this: rm -f -- *.zip |
| 12:07.10 | afernandez | not with an f |
| 12:07.33 | afernandez | set x gives: |
| 12:07.35 | afernandez | + rm -- '*.zip' |
| 12:07.36 | afernandez | rm: cannot remove '*.zip': No such file or directory |
| 12:07.37 | colo-work | afernandez, how does "not work" manifest, exactly? |
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| 12:07.55 | afernandez | colo-work: ^^^^^ |
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| 12:07.59 | colo-work | yeah well, your wildcard doesn't expand because there are no file names ending in .zip in your CWD |
| 12:08.07 | colo-work | so ut gets passed to the command as a literal |
| 12:08.08 | afernandez | oh yes |
| 12:08.17 | colo-work | and a file named "*.zip" doesn't exist either |
| 12:08.18 | afernandez | there are |
| 12:08.34 | colo-work | your shell thinks otherwise |
| 12:08.59 | klys | pls, use rm -f when operating automagically |
| 12:09.00 | colo-work | did you supply the single quotes around *.zip yourself? |
| 12:09.15 | afernandez | no, set -x |
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| 12:10.06 | colo-work | well, have your script execute an "ls" before your "rm" |
| 12:10.10 | afernandez | colo-work: you are right im cding |
| 12:10.23 | afernandez | to wrong dir where there are no zips thank you all. |
| 12:10.37 | colo-work | np |
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| 12:15.51 | klys | centrix, do you have a uid for your user? perhaps they should run `id' for you. |
| 12:16.50 | AinNero | klys: could you elaborate what you fixed with the initrd? |
| 12:17.26 | centrix | klys, I can get their ID (id user1) as the system is hooked up to AD |
| 12:17.48 | klys | ainnero, I created the file /etc/ld.so.conf |
| 12:17.51 | centrix | it's above 1000. |
| 12:18.43 | AinNero | klys: thanks |
| 12:18.54 | klys | yw |
| 12:19.13 | alkisg | AinNero: it worked fine for me; use kvm -m 512, the default 128 isn't enough |
| 12:19.25 | alkisg | kvm -m 512 -kernel linux -initrd initrd.gz |
| 12:21.11 | alkisg | The threshold where it works/fails is kvm -m 192 |
| 12:21.33 | alkisg | Pitty, debian used to work with 48 last time I benchmarked that :D |
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| 12:22.58 | klys | ainnero, what |
| 12:23.09 | klys | centrix, what's the last... |
| 12:23.14 | klys | sorry ainnero |
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| 12:23.32 | klys | centrix, what's the command you used to change that file mode |
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| 12:24.19 | centrix | klys, setfacl -m u:user1:rw- /dir/file1 |
| 12:25.12 | klys | centrix, is it 664 or 644 ? |
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| 12:26.47 | centrix | klys 664 |
| 12:27.03 | klys | centrix, and user1 is a member of group user1 ? |
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| 12:27.56 | klys | also if you change group memberships you have to logout and log back in |
| 12:28.26 | greycat | and make sure you aren't reattaching to an old tmux or screen session that still runs with the previous privileges |
| 12:28.53 | centrix | klys, no problem from unix. The permission denied pops up using Winscp overwriting the file. |
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| 12:29.24 | klys | can the user touch the file |
| 12:30.01 | centrix | he say the file WAS modified, but he received permission denied anyways. |
| 12:30.43 | greycat | is the file owned by some other user, and possibly winscp is trying to change the permissions on it after writing to it? |
| 12:31.07 | AinNero | alkisg: this is a good explanation |
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| 12:31.18 | centrix | Originally was the file created by root and retains mask of 644. I added myself to the ACL of the file, tested from unx, checked I get the SAME permissions as him ... no problem. |
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| 12:31.48 | alkisg | AinNero: at some point you have kernel + compressed initrd + uncompressed initrd, so it needs quite a bit of ram. Later on only the RAM usage is lower. |
| 12:32.38 | centrix | The filesystem is ext4, the user connects using Winscp and authenticates/authorizes using AD (winbind). He is in the ACL of the file... Let me do another test ... |
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| 12:33.02 | AinNero | alkisg: wew |
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| 12:34.08 | alkisg | AinNero: kvm -m 192 -kernel linux -initrd initrd.gz -append 'rdinit=/bin/sh' ==> free ==> around 90M used after things settle down |
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| 12:37.05 | alkisg | Heh, funny, debian netboot isn't using initramfs-tools :D |
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| 12:38.39 | centrix | greycat, klys Now I got the screen from the user. Yes, Winscp complains about setting permissions or timestamp. |
| 12:38.57 | greycat | Because only the actual owner of the file can change the permissions |
| 12:39.02 | centrix | It says the file was save without problems though |
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| 12:40.28 | centrix | well_laid_lawn, we can live with that. A few people will be allowed to edit the file. It makes no sense to change ownership then |
| 12:40.39 | ws2k3 | so i have a ubuntu 14.04 machine which is on 100 %[working] (apt-get update). and yes i know i should fck off to #ubuntu. but ubuntu sucks. debian ftw. and the first thing the ubuntu guys sad was. ubuntu 14.04 is eol. well. its based on jessie. still supported. anyone an idea what i can/should debug this? proberly its one repo. but the things is. the repo works fine in the browser. |
| 12:41.03 | greycat | Nice autocomplete. |
| 12:41.58 | greycat | ws2k3: *plonk* |
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| 12:45.22 | ooAoo | ws2k3: ubuntu's upstream is debian |
| 12:45.37 | ws2k3 | ooAoo: i know... debian rocks. |
| 12:45.43 | ooAoo | or you can say it is build based on debian |
| 12:45.51 | ooAoo | :) |
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| 12:45.53 | ws2k3 | i know :) |
| 12:45.55 | greycat | !based on debian |
| 12:45.55 | dpkg | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
| 12:46.01 | ooAoo | you got debian 10 buster installed? |
| 12:46.12 | ooAoo | heard it is just release recently |
| 12:46.18 | ws2k3 | nope ubuntu 14.04 is based on jessie |
| 12:46.21 | greycat | about 4 weeks ago |
| 12:46.35 | ooAoo | greycat: any opinion on this new debian? |
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| 12:47.21 | klys | ws2k3, check out the debootstrap utility, it may be just what you need |
| 12:48.12 | greycat | It really depends on which desktop/applications you use. The switch to GNOME/Wayland instead of GNOME/X11 may be a huge shift for some users, but it does not affect me (fvwm/X11). The change to su just seems spiteful. |
| 12:48.22 | NetTerminalGene | guys, gedit launches 0.5 second delay, it is same for you? |
| 12:48.36 | NetTerminalGene | on gnome |
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| 12:49.23 | klys | sry, that gnome machine's fan stopped working. can't help |
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| 12:54.06 | rant | oh no! a program takes 500ms to load? |
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| 12:55.18 | rant | I have mousepad, pluma, and geany and their load speeds are in that order.. mousepad is the quickest |
| 12:55.31 | rant | coincidentally their number of features are also in that order :P |
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| 12:57.12 | Haohmaru | geany uses the scintilla text widget thing |
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| 12:59.03 | kreyren | Looking for recommendations on apt compatible repositories |
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| 13:00.40 | Bushmills | rant, tried featherpad? |
| 13:01.48 | klys | kreyren, https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/Unofficial |
| 13:01.53 | Bushmills | may load in 2 ms less :) |
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| 13:02.34 | humbot | firefox takes over 10s to load for me :þ |
| 13:02.39 | kreyren | klys, i have these already ;-; |
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| 13:04.03 | klys | kreyren, have you been literally trying everything |
| 13:04.18 | kreyren | klys, most of it |
| 13:04.48 | kreyren | rest seems outside of my usecase |
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| 13:05.46 | klys | kreyren, perhaps look around with pip3 and cpan, etc. and on github, sourceforge, etc. are you into programming too? |
| 13:06.16 | kreyren | klys, yep https://i.imgur.com/CxvjviT.png |
| 13:06.27 | kreyren | former full-time programmer |
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| 13:08.24 | klys | kreyren, my bookmarks are at http://show.ing.me/ and I'm into some low-level stuff and some C and C++ and a bit of Python |
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| 13:50.16 | kreyren | klys, ty |
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| 13:51.33 | klys | yw |
| 13:51.34 | CrazyTux | hello, are there packages in Debian that are similar to these useful tools in mx linux? https://mxlinux.org/current-release-features/ |
| 13:52.04 | apollo13 | most likely |
| 13:52.14 | CrazyTux | Particularly these packages in the section " |
| 13:52.15 | CrazyTux | Tools To Make Common Tasks Easier |
| 13:52.15 | CrazyTux | " |
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| 13:53.32 | lubko | hello |
| 13:53.53 | klys | hi |
| 13:53.53 | CrazyTux | btw, is debian less refined compared to newbie friendly distros like Mint, Ubuntu and MX Linux? |
| 13:54.14 | CrazyTux | from the point of view of a newbie, a non technical end user. |
| 13:54.53 | humbot | i think it really depends on your use case and their definition of common tasks |
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| 13:55.42 | humbot | ime wrappers and helper scripts provide you with a set of defaults which you might want, |
| 13:56.15 | humbot | or you might have to learn a whole bunch of parameters or arguments for the tool just as you would with the basic command |
| 13:56.28 | lubko | i'm wondering how frequently are new kernel packages available in unstable, testing and experimental? |
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| 13:56.51 | humbot | only this way you don't learn the common tool and you don't see it's structure |
| 13:56.53 | lubko | newest one seems to be 5.0.2 in experimental, and that's prety old |
| 13:57.09 | greycat | Last I heard, the 5.x kernel packages are waiting for some kind of transition, maybe python 2 removal. |
| 13:57.17 | lubko | ah, i see |
| 13:57.24 | greycat | #debian-next would be the place to ask |
| 13:57.51 | klys | that channel is available to users of irc.oftc.net |
| 13:57.51 | lubko | oddly, git seems to be regularly updated, at 5.2.5 now. but binaries are nowhere to be found |
| 13:57.58 | lubko | greycat: thank you |
| 13:58.48 | klys | lubko, do you want the .deb for git? |
| 13:59.52 | lubko | klys: no. what i meant is that the git with debian/ kernel packaging is being regularly updated: https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/linux/ |
| 14:00.00 | lubko | klys: just the .debs are nowehere to be found |
| 14:00.09 | klys | I see what you mean |
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| 14:01.19 | joshuaBPMan1 | morning debian people! |
| 14:01.22 | karlpinc | CrazyTux: Debian has a _lot_ of software available. This can make it harder for a newbie to pick and choose. Often the newbie might have to learn something, like how to search for the software they want using, say packages.debian.org, or the debtags tool, or the apt-file tool, or.... |
| 14:02.03 | CrazyTux | karlpinc: ok |
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| 14:06.17 | karlpinc | CrazyTux: The synaptic GUI package manager has a lot of features, but I can't tell you what they are. I, like many with more experience, tend to avoid the GUI for lots of reasons people will be happy to go on about. (Probably best discussed in #debian-offtopic.) FWIW, in this channel we find text interfaces way easier to support, although of course we'll help with anything. |
| 14:06.25 | han-solo | or just `aptituide` :) |
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| 14:07.03 | karlpinc | Yah. I like aptitude and it pulls in a lot of the features of the other tools. |
| 14:07.04 | joshuaBPMan1 | so I am having a really hard time creating a complete install DVD or usb stick. I have tried installing debian on my Macbook 7,1. It has failed at least 10 times. I have had debian installed on it before....The last time I tried burning a DVD via the debian 64 netinstall iso, the DVD was spit out about halfway through. |
| 14:07.20 | greycat | It may also be worth mentioning that synaptic doesn't fully work (can't do root-stuff) under Wayland. |
| 14:07.27 | CrazyTux | karlpinc: ok |
| 14:07.40 | joshuaBPMan1 | I have then tried burning a usb stick via "dd if=debian-64-netinstall.iso of=/dev/sdb". |
| 14:07.59 | joshuaBPMan1 | The usb sticks evenutally end up telling me a file is corrupted and it cannot install. What am I doing wrong? |
| 14:08.11 | han-solo | do a sync ? |
| 14:08.13 | karlpinc | greycat: I don't know anything about wayland. Is it because it's stupid to run GUIs as root? |
| 14:08.22 | greycat | that's part of it, yes |
| 14:08.24 | joshuaBPMan1 | han-solo. I am doing that as well. |
| 14:08.59 | han-solo | or `dd bs=4M if=path/to/input.iso of=/dev/sd? conv=fdatasync status=progress` |
| 14:09.03 | han-solo | is what i usually do |
| 14:09.10 | karlpinc | joshuaBPMan1: Is this dd on the mac? I hear tell that MacOS does not reallly do dd, it just has something called dd that does "special things" depending on the data it's moving around. |
| 14:09.13 | greycat | Long-term, the correct fix for synaptic would be to restructure it so the GUI portion runs as *you*, and communicates with an elevated-privilege daemon that does all the actual root-stuff. |
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| 14:11.16 | joshuaBPMan1 | karlpinc: I am currently running a mac 4,1. It is running debian. |
| 14:12.28 | joshuaBPMan1 | karlpinc: I just tried using brasero to burn my DVD. It spit the DVD out. It then told me an "unknown error occured when trying to burn the DVD. |
| 14:12.38 | joshuaBPMan1 | han-solo: Why the 4m? |
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| 14:13.09 | joshuaBPMan1 | han-solo: Also, does running dd multiple times on the same usb stick damage the usb stick? |
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| 14:13.34 | klys | naw |
| 14:14.20 | joshuaBPMan1 | ok. I guess I'll try that again |
| 14:14.24 | tsujp_ | how can I view networking history on debian? |
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| 14:14.31 | tsujp_ | That is, my KBps and in? |
| 14:14.36 | tsujp_ | Is there something logging that by default? |
| 14:14.37 | humbot | i'm sure i zeroed a usb stick once and it just died |
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| 14:15.01 | karlpinc | joshuaBPMan1: You _could_ check the hash of the iso to be sure the download went right. |
| 14:15.34 | joshuaBPMan1 | karlpinc: I probably should do that |
| 14:15.50 | karlpinc | joshuaBPMan1: Unlikely problem, but you have a strange problem so.... |
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| 14:16.42 | CQ | hello, I jsut upgraded my stretch to buster, and now I only get a normal console, not a desktop. I am using xfce ... any suggestions? |
| 14:16.47 | karlpinc | joshuaBPMan1: It is also remotely possible you have bad ram in your box. memtest86+ is called for to test that. |
| 14:16.48 | winny | you might do well to try with cdrecord directly, it'll tell you error messages that will highlight the problem |
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| 14:17.28 | karlpinc | CQ: First step is to check the logs. The X log in particular. |
| 14:17.43 | joshuaBPMan1 | do you mean my current macbook ? The one i am talking to you right now? |
| 14:18.15 | klys | cq, login to your user account and look for ~/.xsession and see if it says xfce and then type startx |
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| 14:19.34 | CQ | I don't have a .xsession, but I do have a .xsession-errors from 2015 ; ) |
| 14:19.35 | karlpinc | joshuaBPMan1: The box that's doing the burning/dd-ing. |
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| 14:19.46 | joshuaBPMan1 | ok thanks |
| 14:20.03 | klys | cq, for starters you might put xterm in there. chmod +x .xsession; startx |
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| 14:20.23 | CQ | ok, startx seems to give me the xfce4 desktop just fine... is the display manager missing / badly configured? |
| 14:20.44 | greycat | Either that, or you've told systemd to boot into multi-user.target instead of graphical.target |
| 14:20.57 | greycat | what does "systemctl get-default" say? |
| 14:21.48 | CQ | graphical.target |
| 14:22.03 | greycat | Then it sounds like a display manager either isn't installed at all, or is disabled. |
| 14:22.18 | CQ | rebooting again to make sure we're not chasing ghosts... |
| 14:22.27 | joshuaBPMan1 | karlpinc: I guess my main issues started happening when I swapped my memory and hard drives from my macbooks. 7,1 and 4,1. |
| 14:22.30 | humbot | oh weirdly i have graphical.target on this tty only machine |
| 14:22.37 | greycat | humbot: same here. it's fine. |
| 14:22.48 | greycat | if there isn't a display manager installed, it can't run one. |
| 14:22.51 | humbot | sure |
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| 14:23.40 | CQ | greycat how can I check that? maybe it got removed withthe autoremoves ... |
| 14:24.01 | CQ | I think I have ldm on another machine? |
| 14:24.45 | greycat | I guess I'd start with something like "dpkg -l \*dm" |
| 14:25.08 | greycat | although there's also gdm3 because they just HAVE to be difficult |
| 14:25.26 | CQ | gdm3 and lightdm are both listed as "rc" ... which one should I install? Guess they disappeared somehow |
| 14:25.40 | greycat | rc means it was removed but not purged |
| 14:25.53 | CQ | yes, I know. |
| 14:25.55 | greycat | non-GNOME users typically go with lightdm, I think |
| 14:25.58 | CQ | ok, thanks |
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| 14:28.28 | humbot | xfce4 usually has lightdm yes, works pretty well |
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| 14:30.18 | CQ | greycat, problem solved, thanks!! |
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| 14:34.31 | Akuw | hi |
| 14:34.40 | hero44322 | /opt/cmake/bin/cmake -version shows the version of cmake I have since I built from source. How do I add it to bash so I can cmake -version instead for example. |
| 14:34.53 | hero44322 | bash: cmake: command not found |
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| 14:35.10 | hero44322 | I removed the debian package version beforehand |
| 14:35.12 | Akuw | i am trying to mount a Hp Proliant server partition, server has an disk array by hardware |
| 14:35.30 | Akuw | Proliant DL 385 G7 |
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| 14:36.20 | Akuw | i trie with mount /dev/sda1 /media and got unknow filesystem type 'VMFS_volume_member' |
| 14:36.53 | karlpinc | hero44322: You need to add /opt/cmake/bin to your $PATH. |
| 14:37.29 | hero44322 | Ah okay |
| 14:38.01 | hero44322 | /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games |
| 14:38.11 | Bushmills | hero44322: PATH problem. Consider to use an alias, or symlink relevant bins to /usr/local/bin. Alternatively, add /opt/cmake/bin in a wrapper script called for compilation to PATH |
| 14:39.17 | Akuw | this server is using Vmware ESXi |
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| 14:40.11 | karlpinc | hero44322: You might consider asking the bot more regards below: |
| 14:40.13 | karlpinc | !usrlocal |
| 14:40.13 | dpkg | When hand-compiling software, *always* create a new directory under /usr/local, then install into it. For example: mkdir -p /usr/local/mypackage; ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/mypackage. Otherwise, it can overwrite files which should be protected by apt, which can break apt, or apt can break this application's files because it doesn't know about them. See also: <equivs>, <FHS>, </opt>, <checkinstall>, <stow>, <make your own .deb> |
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| 14:41.21 | Bushmills | Akuw, you may need vmfs-tools |
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| 14:45.08 | rant | Bushmills: no, I haven't. I never heard of it.. I am not having any issues I was just commenting on someone saying gedit took half a second to load.. |
| 14:46.13 | Bushmills | rant, I'm aware if it, my reply was also meant as tongue-in-cheek - while the editor is real, the launch saving time may be marginal |
| 14:47.21 | Bushmills | especially on a fast box |
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| 14:48.54 | rant | Bushmills: ah.. well, I always appreciate humor, I just didnt realize it was a joke.. didnt see any ":P" in there |
| 14:49.20 | Bushmills | that'd be giving it away, woudn't it? |
| 14:49.42 | rant | Bushmills: my current machine is a Thinkpad T440, 4th gen Core i5 w/ 8GB ram and a SATA SSD, so I have no issues with speed really |
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| 14:50.53 | Bushmills | rather similar here. i7 2nd gen, other identical |
| 14:50.57 | rant | considering the best machine I had prior to this was probably a T61 Core2Duo with maybe 3GB ram, and for years prior to getting this, I was fooling with first an orangepi lite as my desktop, then an HP T520 thin client.. this seems super fast to me |
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| 14:52.13 | Bushmills | replace orangepi against odroid xu4, and we're on same page again here |
| 14:52.14 | rant | I'm thoroughly impressed with the modern-ish thinkpads.. the battery life and speed blows me away.. I can hardly believe how light weight and cool it is, the fan rarely ever runs, I am rarely over 5W power consumption, I get typically 16hrs or so battery life.. its just hard to imagine |
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| 14:53.00 | rant | idk how the hell they managed to get so much processing power into a device and still keep it cool without the fan running and with such low power consuption |
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| 14:53.29 | Bushmills | maybe by you not demanding all that processing power all the time |
| 14:53.51 | Bushmills | idling can be power efficient :) |
| 14:54.56 | rant | I used to demonstrate to people I was planning to switch to linux the ability of it to juggle.. and I'd just open up every app in the menu.. to show them it doesnt bog it down.. and I've tried that on this machine.. many tabs in the browser with JS hungry websites, opening many large photos in gimp, videos in kdenlive, audio in audacity.. etc.. I can't get it to sweat at all even trying to exxagerate the |
| 14:55.02 | rant | load beyond what I'd ever ask of it |
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| 14:55.51 | Bushmills | I may be able to help you turning on the fan ... |
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| 14:56.22 | rant | yeah the fan will kick on but the ram/cpu usage I never really get at or above 50% of what it has to offer no matter how hard I try |
| 14:56.46 | rant | realistically using the machine, I am usually at 25% or less overall utilization |
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| 14:57.44 | Bushmills | rant, http://snap.scarydevilmonastery.net/1564757839515813199d.png - took 2 seconds to turn on fan after launching |
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| 14:57.56 | rant | that fan thing and the low power consumption baffles me more than the raw processing power of the machine.. I just really dont understand how the entire system is using less than 5W |
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| 14:58.54 | Bushmills | http://snap.scarydevilmonastery.net/1564757906423208388d.png busy a bit. not even on full load yet. single job |
| 14:59.07 | rant | I'm currently on wifi, backlight about 50%, keyboard backlight at about 50%, and I am drawing 4.1W its just amazing |
| 14:59.46 | rant | I am used to even a mobile CPU alone drawing more power than this not even considering the backlight, wifi, etc.. |
| 15:00.12 | rant | my current estimate says 20hrs of battery life |
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| 15:01.22 | rant | I'm just blown away by it.. especially considering I didnt pay a dime for this machine :P |
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| 15:02.00 | Bushmills | meaning of that what keeps machine busy os not for sake of keeping it busy, instead i needed some sort of reference for a specific kind of copro on another device, meant to do largest part of what that machine was just busy with. I just want to see how that copro will fare against a pure software solution |
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| 15:02.43 | Bushmills | if it can make my machine sweat, it can do yours too :) |
| 15:02.45 | rant | I traded some college kid who is a huge thinkpad fan, was trying to get a collection going.. traded him an old t42p and a few broken t61 and t500.. and he decked this machine out.. fitted it with a 1080p screen which wasnt even an option on the T440, put in the 3 button touchpad..etc |
| 15:03.38 | rant | I tried to tell him the T42p was really old and not that impressive a machine but he was thrilled by it.. heh.. I felt like I was rippin him off, but he insisted he was happy |
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| 15:04.56 | rant | gotta love real synergy in life.. where you can do things where everyone is satisfied :D |
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| 15:23.19 | davide | hello |
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| 15:24.11 | davide | I need to install both sid and testing in order to working on Debian ? |
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| 15:24.52 | Logg | No davide, "sid" and "testing" are "release channels". |
| 15:25.18 | Logg | a release channel is made up of a set of packages, and the ones in "testing" and "sid" are less stable than the ones in "stable" |
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| 15:29.36 | jim | davide, "working on debian"? what do you want to do? |
| 15:29.44 | davide | Need I to install both sid and testing in order to do development job on Debian ? I mean helping in find and solve bugs for the next release |
| 15:30.25 | rant | davide: you can use a virtual machine or chroot for these purposes.. install stable |
| 15:30.39 | jim | probably you want testing, and one thing there will be to test, is the debian installer |
| 15:31.10 | rant | it makes more sense to just install stable and do the testing on top of a stable platform |
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| 15:31.58 | rant | unless you have a lot of spare hardware laying around and are going to be doing some kind of testing/development that requires native access |
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| 15:32.25 | rant | in which case, you are in the wrong channel, cause we support stable here, and we're always going to recommend that |
| 15:32.42 | rant | !testing |
| 15:32.42 | dpkg | Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <bullseye>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and ask me about <testing faq> <buster->bullseye> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical! |
| 15:32.49 | jim | davide, maybe you could install more than one: have a stable, and a testing and maybe also an unstable |
| 15:33.07 | jim | if you have lots of disk space laying around |
| 15:33.19 | Psyndrome | Hi |
| 15:33.28 | jim | hi |
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| 15:34.52 | davide | Yes I have an entire SSD I can use for install different branch of the distro |
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| 15:35.51 | rant | davide: do you actually have a question? something you need support with? because I'm not seeing one. |
| 15:36.06 | jim | btw, I don't see how it makes sense to test for bugs in a branch that's already released... if you find bugs there, they're less likely to be fixed unless they're security-oriented, or otherwise serious |
| 15:36.09 | Psyndrome | I installed an HDD formatted it as ext4 then i followed a bunch of commands to make it usable but now every time i relogin to the system it is asking for password again and again |
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| 15:36.29 | Psyndrome | How do i make it do that by itself with no password? |
| 15:37.04 | jim | if you find bugs in testing, you can help debian more by reporting and/or fixing them |
| 15:37.17 | rant | Psyndrome: you need to be more specific about the password.. you included misleading details that one could interpret as disk encryption.. there are many forms of passwords and logins.. console, display manager, ssh, etc.. |
| 15:37.34 | davide | I have already ask my question |
| 15:37.42 | rant | Psyndrome: are you asking how to make the system boot to a GUI desktop without a password? |
| 15:38.07 | davide | I mean I have already wrote my question, thanks for you answers |
| 15:38.38 | rant | davide: perhaps you think you did.. and I suspect you may not be a native english speaker because while you put a question mark on that, it was not a question, it was a statement |
| 15:38.49 | jim | davide, are you looking at all, at becoming a debian developer? |
| 15:39.38 | rant | I need to... is a statement. one without any context in this case |
| 15:40.47 | Psyndrome | Im asking about how to mount the new installed HDD automatically without asking me for password every time i accessing the content but if you tell me how to access the gui without it will be useful as well |
| 15:40.48 | jim | rant, you're not a parsing algorithm... you have human intelligence you can use to help communicate |
| 15:42.22 | rant | jim: and I'm not being overly anal here.. there is no context.. even if I insert "do" in there to make it a grammatically correct question, its one that can only be speculated at best.. because we don't know if you do need to do something, if we don't know what it is you're trying to DO :P |
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| 15:43.14 | rant | Psyndrome: ah, so the HDD is external then? and you're saying it's asking for a password to do a mount? or is the hdd encrypted? |
| 15:44.30 | rant | Psyndrome: if its a normal unencrypted drive, you need only make an fstab entry for it.. the specifics depend on your providing more specifics about what it is (removable/fixed) and what you want to do with it, i.e. where you want it mounted |
| 15:44.33 | jim | rant, what I do in situations like that, is I -gently- ask for the information that's missing... also, I try to make statements that include as much informatiuon that would otherwise be missing |
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| 15:46.15 | rant | jim: and we were doing that. its not a big deal.. near as I can tell we satisfied the curiousity with assumed advice.. which as I already stated, proves there was no actual question there, no actual issue for support.. they were just looking for general advice on testing and are satisfied with the responses |
| 15:46.53 | Psyndrome | the HDD is normal but i added it after the installation of the system and it is keep asking for password but weather or not is encrypted i dont think so |
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| 15:47.43 | Psyndrome | By default is mounted in media username location and its easy accessible from the places tab from my MATE desktop |
| 15:48.07 | rant | Psyndrome: sounds like you don't really know what you are trying to do.. what is it you want to use this HDD for.. lets start with that? Is it an internal fixed disk, or is it something you will be removing like a USB drive? |
| 15:48.34 | jim | Psyndrome, did the system ask for a password before the drive was installed? |
| 15:48.47 | rant | things are usually only mounted to /media/ if they are removable media |
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| 15:49.48 | rant | Psyndrome: if you are unable to answer these questions than perhaps you can run some commands to provide us with some information. |
| 15:49.51 | Psyndrome | The HDD is normal and im already using it as a stash in some sort but for every reloging need a password to remount itself |
| 15:50.06 | Psyndrome | just by clicking on the device icon |
| 15:50.33 | rant | Psyndrome: (lsblk;cat /etc/fstab)|nc termbin.com 9999 |
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| 15:54.16 | Psyndrome | jim the system ask me for my password for almost everything i install or login or that hdd remounts |
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| 15:54.57 | rant | so you are just generally not wanting to type passwords, this has little to do with the HDD |
| 15:55.00 | jim | Psyndrome, ok, what about before you installed the new drive? |
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| 15:55.54 | rant | sounds more like a polkit/sudo/keyring kinda question |
| 15:56.04 | jim | I wonder if the new drive has encrypted content |
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| 15:56.33 | rant | yes, well that is why I asked repeatedly about the specifics and even asked to see lsblk and fstab so I can figure it out for myself definitively :P |
| 15:58.14 | Psyndrome | i didnt encrypted anything cause i dont know how but if the gparted tool is doing it by itself i dont know |
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| 16:01.32 | rant | if you encrypted it, you'd probably know.. you'd at the very least have had to create a password for the disk |
| 16:02.16 | rant | the fact of the matter is, after all you've said, I dont think your issue has anything at all to do with this hdd.. you are just asking about not having to keep typing the password into polkit dialogs.. for installing packages, etc.. |
| 16:02.58 | rant | and if thats the case, the question is, do you just want to eliminate the need altogether and just allow your user to do these things without a password? |
| 16:03.21 | rant | I've configured my father's machine to just never ask for a password to use the package manager or anything |
| 16:03.51 | rant | on my system I just use my built-in fingerprint scanner for these things |
| 16:05.38 | rant | if you just want to eliminate passwords altogether for admin tasks, my recommendation is to install and configure sudo with NOPASSWD: ALL directive for %sudo and add your user to the sudo group, disable the root account, and then configure polkit to respect sudo |
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| 16:06.50 | jim | rant, what if that wasn't the case? in other words, what if he had a drive that he didn't know had encrypted content? |
| 16:07.59 | Psyndrome | When i insert a flash drive for example its mounted on the same place as the hdd with the only difference when i click on the hdd icon needs a password because its not mounted but just visible from the icon |
| 16:08.05 | rant | disabling the root account is optional but I recommend it because if a user doesnt regularly use the rootpw anymore.. they are unlikely to choose a good pw and update it frequently.. which could introduce a security issue at some point if a service is isntalled that allows root logins.. where if root is disabled, it cannot be accessed remotely via a login.. can only be accessed via sudo which requires a |
| 16:08.11 | rant | login to a sudo user first.. which you'd be maintaing a better pw policy on |
| 16:08.13 | Psyndrome | When i insert the password it is mounted and usable |
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| 16:08.42 | rant | typically that would indicate that the hdd is encrypted.. is there a lock icon on the HDD icon? |
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| 16:10.00 | rant | jim: idk what you're asking specifically but the user also mentioned installing packages and such.. which means their frustration with typing passwords often has to do with polkit in general not specifically this hdd.. |
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| 16:10.59 | Psyndrome | no lock icon |
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| 16:11.42 | rant | aside from the nopasswords solution I proposed, there is also use of a keyring.. which is usually default behavior.. when a polkit dialog comes up it says "forget immediately, remember until logout, remember forever" if you dont read the dialog and select an option, then you're just at a PICNIC |
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| 16:12.53 | rant | the default is usually to forget the password immediately |
| 16:13.02 | rant | unless you read the dialog and select another option |
| 16:13.13 | rant | which then uses your login keyring to store the password |
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| 16:18.37 | seven-eleven | hi |
| 16:18.47 | seven-eleven | how can I run a reproducible package myself in debian? |
| 16:18.51 | jim | rant, so he's getting requests from the system to type in passwords because polkit is misconfigured? |
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| 16:19.36 | rant | its not misconfigured per-se its just default configured.. thats how the system works, you try to do something that requires root permissions, it prompts for a password.. like running synaptic, or mounting a volume |
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| 16:19.52 | rant | if you want different behavior, you have to configure it differently |
| 16:20.02 | jim | seven-eleven, debianized source knows how to do the build -and- produce packages |
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| 16:20.32 | rant | but we're dancing around unknown issues here.. we never got at the specifics of how this HDD is configured, what kind of HDD it is.. or what behavior is desired |
| 16:20.38 | Psyndrome | so how do i recall this configuration tool? |
| 16:20.48 | rant | there is no configuration tool |
| 16:21.00 | Psyndrome | what is it then? |
| 16:21.01 | rant | I can tell you how to do it once you tell me what it is you want |
| 16:21.19 | rant | do you just want to give your user admin/root privs without a password? |
| 16:21.19 | seven-eleven | jim, the package deb contains the precompiled binaries? I'm curious to do the reproducible build locally |
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| 16:22.36 | rant | and really if you're this inexperienced of a user you probably wouldnt benefit from sudo much.. but it doesnt hurt to use sudo cause it not only allows you to use that to issue terminal commands, but some things still use sudo, though most GUI are using polkit now |
| 16:22.50 | rant | but you can certainly just setup sudo and tell polkit to use that |
| 16:23.28 | Psyndrome | the volume mounting with password by default is the issue you listed |
| 16:23.52 | trek00 | seven-eleven: you need to rebuild it https://wiki.debian.org/BuildingTutorial#Rebuild_without_changes |
| 16:25.15 | rant | Psyndrome: if the HDD is the real issue you want to address, I need more information.. which I asked for twice and gave you a command to provide it.. if you want to just eliminate root password prompts altogether its a multi-step process we can go through but it still requires you to listen and do what I'm telling you.. it involves commands and editing files.. stuff you've so far not demonstrated the ability |
| 16:25.21 | rant | to do |
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| 16:26.22 | rant | I am still not clear on if this HDD is removable i.e. USB or is internal i.e. a fixed disk, where you want it mounted, or what sort of disk layout it is.. if there is lvm, encryption, etc |
| 16:27.15 | rant | what I do know is, that in my experience, plugging in a USB hdd that is not encrypted just mounts to /media/ without any clicking or passwords, or in my case like the USB HDD I currently have attached, which is encrypted.. I have to as you say, provide a password to access it |
| 16:28.19 | Psyndrome | It is internal connected with sata cables |
| 16:28.44 | rant | Psyndrome: as a more general advice.. you need to understand this is not like MacOS or Windows or such.. in Debian we have 7 major Desktop Environments, and thousands of other packages you can mix and match.. one Debian system is possibly totally different than another.. so we can't just generically offer advice without details |
| 16:29.35 | rant | Psyndrome: ok, well an internal fixed disk should not be mounting to /media/ the reason it is in this case is likely because you never finished setting it up.. you made no entry in fstab to tell the system where you want it to be.. so thats why you have to click on it and provide a password |
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| 16:30.19 | rant | Psyndrome: fstab is a configuration file that tells the system where filesystems are located and where you want them mounted.. if you tell fstab that this new hdd exists, and where you want it mounted, you can then set it to auto mount |
| 16:30.38 | rant | Psyndrome: sounds to me then like you want this to be a permanent disk that is automaticaly mounted at boot |
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| 16:30.57 | rant | Psyndrome: so then the only remaining question is, WHERE would you like it to be mounted? |
| 16:31.26 | rant | Psyndrome: and I still need to see the output of the lsblk command regardless and preferably your fstab as well.. |
| 16:31.43 | rant | Psyndrome: (lsblk; cat /etc/fstab)|nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 16:31.58 | rant | Psyndrome: type that command above into a terminal window, it will return a URL |
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| 16:32.32 | rant | I would need that information to tell you how to configure the disk properly to automount |
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| 16:34.12 | rant | Psyndrome: is any of this making sense or do you need help with understanding how to open a terminal and issuing commands? |
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| 16:34.35 | Psyndrome | Is it a problem if its mounted on the same place? |
| 16:34.38 | uranium | whoami uranium |
| 16:34.41 | Psyndrome | no problem for me to open a terminal |
| 16:34.46 | Guest37199 | whois uranium |
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| 16:34.58 | rant | Psyndrome: you mean to configure fstab to mount it to where it is mounted NOW? |
| 16:35.15 | Psyndrome | Is that an issue? |
| 16:35.33 | rant | Psyndrome: not really.. but I still need to see the information I've asked for to tell you what to do |
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| 16:35.54 | rant | Psyndrome: mounting it to /media/ has the benefit of that the drive will always appear on your desktop |
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| 16:36.28 | rant | but if thats what you want, you will need to unmount it first and create the mountpoint as a persistent mount point |
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| 16:36.55 | rant | because the default behavior your are using now, the mountpoints are created on-demand by udev |
| 16:37.10 | rant | for fstab to automount it, you need the mount point to be permanent |
| 16:38.07 | rant | if you don't provide the information I've asked for I can't do much more than generically explain how it works and how its done |
| 16:39.20 | rant | without an fstab entry the system only knows the device exists because of udev daemon finding it.. which makes it show up in your file manager allowing you to click on it ant provide the root password to mount it |
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| 16:40.28 | rant | whereby a mount point is generated on the fly, and its mounted to /media/user/ to make it appear on your desktop |
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| 16:41.04 | rant | via freedesktop.org standards :P |
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| 16:41.43 | rant | jim: are you understanding how the process you seem to suggest I use is a circle jerk? |
| 16:42.06 | rant | we need users to just ask better questions and provide more info. |
| 16:42.17 | greycat | The holy grail of IRC. |
| 16:42.22 | greycat | And tech support in general. |
| 16:42.27 | rant | otherwise we just keep going round and round like I been doing here |
| 16:42.38 | rant | I can explain the processes in detail, but its not getting this issue resolves |
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| 16:42.56 | rant | and I would imagine the explaination isnt making much sense to the user |
| 16:43.32 | Psyndrome | it is make sense im just tired its exactly what you say |
| 16:43.51 | rant | its now apparent to me why the password dialogs are comming up.. if they'd provided the info from lsblk and fstab an hour ago, I'd have known this and solved it already :D |
| 16:44.20 | rant | Psyndrome: so then you /are/ experienced enough to resolve this then, you are just groggy? |
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| 16:45.18 | rant | really all you need is a "/dev/sdc /media/user/foo ext4 defaults 0 0" or such line in /etc/fstab.. but the specifics would be the information from lsblk |
| 16:45.34 | rant | but you also need to unmount the partition first and create the mountpoint with mkdir so its persistent |
| 16:45.41 | seven-eleven | trek00, i assume `debuild` compares the build with the signature provided in the .dsc file, if so how is this reproducible if the package .dsc file is shipped together from the same repository, could both tampered with? |
| 16:46.00 | rant | and since its ext4 you would also need to insure the permissions are correct on the filesystem to be able to access it |
| 16:46.06 | greycat | Using /dev/sdc in fstab is a bad idea in the long run, because /dev/sdc may be /dev/sdd or /dev/sdb next time you boot. |
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| 16:46.20 | rant | yes well I can't be specific without specific information :D |
| 16:46.30 | rant | I'm just generalizing here |
| 16:46.58 | rant | it would be best to take the info from lsblk and plug it into blkid and use the UUID |
| 16:47.28 | jim | rant, yeah, that is true... for that, it's good if the users want to do it, and feel good about doing so... beating em up for not asking a question correctly will leave them with a bad taste in their mouth, which they'll recognize, and the next time it comes, they'll feel bad about asking anything |
| 16:47.31 | rant | but I have nfc what that information is |
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| 16:48.14 | rant | jim: fair enough.. greycat and I both know and have done such.. but you also gotta understand we're busy doing other things.. I spent like an hour pising around with this not doing what I would've been doing otherwise.. |
| 16:48.32 | rant | if a user is taught how to ask better questions and provide better info, then we can just look in and answer without doing all this |
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| 16:49.39 | rant | I know this all too well cause not only have I been here nearly two decades, but I've proposed a project to develop a series of software-based solutions to address this.. its just not getting any traction.. I need programmers to help make it a reality |
| 16:50.00 | rant | https://git.fosscommunity.in/kathryntolsen/diss |
| 16:50.07 | Psyndrome | I did the permissions commands earlier with some sort of chown and chmod commands thats how im using it |
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| 16:50.20 | rant | its a huge and highly ambitious project.. with no support as of yet |
| 16:50.22 | Psyndrome | sorry about your tme |
| 16:50.24 | Psyndrome | time |
| 16:50.43 | rant | Psyndrome: no worries, I got plenty of time.. I'm just trying to make a point here about deficits in our support |
| 16:51.02 | rant | and where the real problem lies.. |
| 16:51.17 | rant | us volunteer supporters being more coddling isn't going to be the solution |
| 16:52.00 | rant | the system is growing rapidly.. we are getting more and more users, more and more pieces to support.. etc.. we need to adjust the tools we use not the way we interact.. |
| 16:52.34 | trek00 | seven-eleven: you can rebuild the package and then compare if they are bit-to-bit comparable |
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| 16:55.30 | jim | rant, isn't that a tautology? :) |
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| 16:55.49 | seven-eleven | trek00, gotcha, thanks |
| 16:56.06 | Psyndrome | You are very helpful ill manage to do it later |
| 16:56.15 | Psyndrome | im just tired didnt eat all day |
| 16:56.52 | Psyndrome | Sorry about that |
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| 16:56.56 | seven-eleven | Psyndrome, oh, when I'm low sugar I'm also grumpy, i hope you have good dinner :-) |
| 16:57.24 | Psyndrome | yes thank you |
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| 16:57.27 | Psyndrome | see you later |
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| 16:58.50 | rant | I have had the vision I outlined in that manifesto of sorts on that project page for nearly a decade.. it would I think solve the problem permanently.. but its going to be a LOT of work.. I vision for the less experienced users, a frontend similar to Windows(tm) Help and Support Center that includes access to manpages, wiki, forums, bts, chat and mailing lists, and remote desktop support options.. and a |
| 16:58.56 | rant | series of backends and such that make that easy to use interface interact with experienced users on their terms without them having to change the way they prefer to do things |
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| 16:59.38 | jhutchins | rant: This is not a philosophy channel. |
| 16:59.43 | rant | fair enough |
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| 17:02.26 | trek00 | rant: what about improving debian wiki? even if I never used archlinux, I always uses their wiki to resolve my issues, is this a sign? :) |
| 17:02.47 | greycat | If you find a Debian wiki page that needs help, help it. |
| 17:03.51 | trek00 | greycat: anyone can sign up to debian wiki? |
| 17:03.57 | rant | trek00: yes |
| 17:04.23 | trek00 | rant: i thought it wasn't possible, good to know |
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| 17:05.07 | rant | I would like to put some effort into the wiki.. but even with our slow pace, the wiki is so far behind it needs nearly rewritten.. I have not been able to figure out a system that suits me to help identify what is outdated and needs to be changed and to change it.. its not as simple as the pruning factoids in the bot which I do as it comes up in here |
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| 17:06.00 | aakko | yeah. lots of pre systemd stuff in the wiki |
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| 17:06.42 | rant | I dont like having to deal with the web interface and mediawiki markup crap.. thats not my preferred way of doing things.. which is why I proposed putting our efforts into designing better tools that adapt to the needs of each kind of user |
| 17:08.06 | trek00 | rant: I think your project is trying to address something that is definitively needed, but it seems to me most of the work is to instructs users how to diagnose and search for answers |
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| 17:09.18 | aakko | gentoo wiki is really nice. works great on mobile too |
| 17:09.25 | rant | trek00: yeah, well its trying to bridge gaps.. is the idea. To allow each user to use whatever method is preferable to them and still have access to the same resources |
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| 17:11.26 | trek00 | rant: from my very personal point of view, i find simpler to fix things instead trying to explain something to inexperienced users, but i lacks of social skills |
| 17:11.38 | rant | I also recently have been noodling an idea about making a new screencasting tool of sorts, that could automate making things like wiki entries.. something that rather than just captures video, it captures events.. and creates more metadata so you can just DO something and record it to a manpage, wiki entry, howto video, pdf, or any format.. so the tool would generate something with more metadata indexing the |
| 17:11.45 | rant | process by what you DO not just what it sees, so you could have a TOC attached to a video or extract screenshots of individual steps, etc.. and would facilitate going back and changing only pieces of it easily where things have changed |
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| 17:12.29 | rant | I am not a very skilled or experienced programmer, more of a dabbler.. and these kinds of things are highly advanced pieces of software.. |
| 17:13.09 | rant | My best idea on getting it happening is to get my stuff together, and perhaps invest in making a nonprofit and raising the funds to pay people to do it |
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| 17:15.20 | rant | but I digress.. can bs about this stuff in an offtopic channel or other places.. I'm always around.. if anyone has ideas or plans of how to make these things happen |
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| 17:17.47 | trek00 | rant: "we don't really want those kinds of users who are inexperienced because they're just going to become a draw on our resources without contributing to our project" what's about a stackexchange-like website for debian? :) |
| 17:19.13 | jken | Hello, I am trying to build a kernel with this driver built in: https://cateee.net/lkddb/web-lkddb/RTL8821AE.html but I can't find the option for it in the configuration curses ui, and if I add it to my config manually it gets removed next time I edit the config with the curses tool. Can anyone help me out? |
| 17:19.29 | rant | trek00: yeah, we should talk about it elsewhere but those sorts of ideas are in there.. having a ratings based system like that |
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| 17:20.07 | trek00 | rant: I see now there are many opensource alternatives to stackexchange https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2267/are-there-any-clones-alternatives-for-running-a-stack-exchange-style-qa-site |
| 17:20.24 | rant | ,pciid 10ec:818b |
| 17:20.25 | judd | [10ec:818b] is 'RTL8192EE PCIe Wireless Network Adapter' from 'Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.' with kernel module 'rtl8192ee' in stretch. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=10ec:818b |
| 17:20.55 | rant | ,pciid 10ec:8812 |
| 17:20.56 | judd | [10ec:8812] is 'RTL8812AE 802.11ac PCIe Wireless Network Adapter' from 'Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.' with kernel module 'rtl8821ae' in stretch. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=10ec:8812 |
| 17:21.18 | rant | jken: my sources suggest this driver is already available in debian |
| 17:21.23 | rant | checks his kernel |
| 17:21.52 | trek00 | jken: it should be already included in standard debian kernel |
| 17:21.58 | jken | I am trying to compile my kernel with that driver as a built in. |
| 17:22.15 | rant | jken: ah, not as a module you mean? |
| 17:22.19 | jken | right. |
| 17:22.34 | rant | jken: does the one in debian work for you? the module? |
| 17:22.49 | rant | jken: cause if so, no need to go upstream, just need to rebuil the debian kernel with different options |
| 17:23.33 | jken | yes it does |
| 17:23.40 | jken | That's exactly what I am trying to do |
| 17:24.25 | jken | I basically booted the stock stretch kernel, grabed the output of lsmod, and then did a localyesconfig |
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| 17:24.42 | trek00 | jken: you said you can't find it in the ncurses configuration, checking theri Kconfig file, you should find it under "Realtek rtlwifi family of devices" |
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| 17:25.32 | rant | jken: is that the ONLY thing you are wanting to change? |
| 17:25.50 | jken | trek00, under "Wireless Lan" I have "Realtek Devices" but it does not seem to set the flags in my config |
| 17:25.57 | rant | cause you don't really need to hunt for it in the ncurses config, you can just change the config directly |
| 17:26.02 | Bushmills | strictly speaking is sid not a "release channel" because sid is no release |
| 17:26.02 | rant | grep makes that much simpler |
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| 17:26.59 | jken | rant, I've also disabled all the modules I don't need for this system |
| 17:27.00 | jken | but yes |
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| 17:27.10 | rant | jken: is this for an embedded system application? |
| 17:27.26 | jken | not technically, its an x86 system. |
| 17:27.29 | annadane | Bushmills, basically you got it right, it just depends the context you're asking in |
| 17:27.42 | jken | basically a nuc type system (but not intel) |
| 17:27.49 | annadane | testing is to test the next stable release, sid is just the first point of entry for packages that'll later migrate to testing |
| 17:27.49 | Bushmills | not a question. I'm just lagging a bit |
| 17:27.58 | rant | jken: cause losing the security of a maintained kernel just to build in a wifi driver seems ridiculously irresponsible |
| 17:28.11 | rant | and a lot of work for no real benefit unless you have contrstaints that warrant it |
| 17:28.23 | jken | lets say I do. |
| 17:28.30 | rant | jken: furthermore building in a wifi driver means you can't rmmod it if there are issues |
| 17:28.55 | rant | jken: I'm willing to concede the point, I'm just trying to make sure you've thought this through and arent doing this to your detriment |
| 17:29.09 | Bushmills | more a belated comment to an earlier comment calling sid such |
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| 17:29.44 | rant | annadane: its the common first point.. there is also experimental |
| 17:30.13 | rant | where things like linux 5 have been residing for awhile now :P |
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| 17:32.06 | jken | rant, basically we build the leanest kernels possible for the devices we support. |
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| 17:32.11 | jhutchins | I take experimental to be "let's see if anybody can get this to work". |
| 17:32.34 | jhutchins | jken: Hey, that's great, that way you get all the latest bugs! |
| 17:32.50 | jhutchins | Kinda like testing parachutes. |
| 17:33.05 | rant | jken: well your issue seems beyond our scope.. as it seems to be you want to know why menuconfig is quashing the config.. which afaik is what its suppose to do.. you would likely server yourself better contacting the kernel maintainers, going to #debian-kernel on OFTC, or pinging lkml |
| 17:33.23 | jken | rant, thanks I'll do that. |
| 17:33.35 | rant | jken: oldconfig target is for people wishing to use an old config, you arent suppose to do menuconfig in those cases |
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| 17:34.17 | jhutchins | rant: Actually, it's certainly expected that you would use both. Copy existing features and configure new. |
| 17:34.23 | rant | jhutchins: heh.. yeah I already touched on the insantiy of the issue :P |
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| 17:36.14 | jhutchins | When I started using Linux it was just after the modular kernel. Every howto began with "recompile the kernel to enable...". |
| 17:36.29 | jhutchins | Kernel compiles were the most common benchmark. |
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| 17:50.08 | flashbck | I'm trying to use debmirror to create a local mirror for my network. I'm trying to keep it as small as possible by using the --exclude-deb-section flag, but packages in excluded sections seem to be fetched regardless. Am I using the command wrong? Here's an example of the command that I'm using: https://pastebin.com/J7Xvfxde and I see the accountsservice package being fetched when it should be a part of the admin deb-section: https://packages.debian.org |
| 17:50.11 | flashbck | /stable/admin/ |
| 17:50.46 | greycat | I wonder why so many people try to do this, instead of just setting up a caching proxy like squid. |
| 17:51.04 | flashbck | It's complicated |
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| 17:53.43 | trek00 | flashbck: I remeber there was an apt proxy server may be it is apt-cacher |
| 17:54.33 | greycat | I'm assuming "it's complicated" means "I can't use HTTP directly from any of the servers, not even through a proxy, so I am sneaker-netting the packages into my local mirror on a secret USB stick". |
| 17:55.10 | greycat | If that's not what it means, perhaps you could tell us what it means, so we can stop guessing. |
| 17:55.25 | flashbck | I've used apt-cacher-ng in the past, but I have requirements that I cannot use that |
| 17:55.29 | OS-54088 | hi |
| 17:55.30 | TigerAcro | Hi! |
| 17:55.36 | TigerAcro | OS-54088 ;) |
| 17:55.47 | trek00 | flashbck: what are your requirements? |
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| 17:56.05 | Bushmills | apt-cacher-ng appeared to function more reliably than apt-cacher |
| 17:56.08 | dvs | uses apt-mirror |
| 17:56.58 | flashbck | My boss told me that I'm not allowed to use a proxy. I tried to convince him that a proxy makes more sense and uses far less bandwidth/storage, but that doesn't seem to matter to him |
| 17:57.22 | flashbck | like I said, it's complicated |
| 17:57.40 | greycat | Doesn't sound *especially* complicated so far. |
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| 17:58.03 | flashbck | ha, well complicated in that I cannot convince the boss to just use a proxy |
| 17:59.06 | trek00 | flashbck: how it is intended to get upgrades? you will manually download them and then copy to the server? |
| 18:00.12 | flashbck | trek00: He wants a cron job that runs periodically that will keep it up to date. |
| 18:00.58 | trek00 | flashbck: may be you can try apt-mirror as dvs said |
| 18:01.03 | flashbck | I'm open to alternatives, I'm not tied to debmirror, but he wants a mirror for reasons that I cannot explain |
| 18:01.11 | Bushmills | rsync ... |
| 18:01.14 | flashbck | okay, is apt-mirror more flexible? |
| 18:01.29 | dvs | flashbck, I don't know how to limit sections from being downloaded though. |
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| 18:01.59 | trek00 | flashbck: sorry I don't know, I was only trying to make your request more clear |
| 18:02.07 | flashbck | ah, okay |
| 18:02.42 | flashbck | yeah, I was investigating debmirror because it appeared to give me the option to exclude sections |
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| 18:04.24 | renner | how can I switch my apt to English so I can google an error message in English? |
| 18:04.53 | greycat | LC_ALL=C apt whatever |
| 18:05.11 | trek00 | flashbck: checking apt-mirror configu files it seems to me it allows only to limit different architectures, releases or sections (main contrib non-free) |
| 18:05.16 | greycat | or if you're a sudo person, sudo env LC_ALL=C apt whatever |
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| 18:07.25 | trek00 | flashbck: may be you can try to type: debmirror -a amd64 --no-source -s main -h ftp.us.debian.org -d buster -r /debian --progress --method=http --exclude-deb-section='.*admin.*' /srv/apt/data/debian |
| 18:08.01 | trek00 | flashbck: or simply --exclude-deb-section='admin' |
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| 18:09.40 | flashbck | I limited the list of exclusions for the sake of brevity, the actually list has more items. I've tried the single item per flag option and had no success (eg: --exclude-deb-section=x11 --exclude-deb-section=gnome etc) |
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| 18:10.07 | flashbck | I'll give the wildcards a shot though |
| 18:11.00 | greycat | Is part of your list of exclusions an executive mandate "no server is allowed to install any X11 packages" by the same boss that said "no proxy"? |
| 18:11.10 | greycat | Just curious. |
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| 18:11.55 | trek00 | flashbck: found on the web --exclude-deb-section='(games|debug|news|gnustep|ocaml|hamradio|gnu-r)' is this working? |
| 18:12.03 | flashbck | greycat: no, that is just an attempt by me to limit the overall size of the mirror. these servers will not need to run x11 so I was trying to exclude those packages |
| 18:12.34 | flashbck | trek00: That looks like the example on the web that I was basing my command on |
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| 18:13.40 | trek00 | flashbck: on this script it uses multiple exclude-deb-section parameters https://github.com/sneak/hacks/blob/master/osxubuntumirror/debmirror.sh |
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| 18:14.41 | flashbck | Yeah, I found that one too. I've tried "--exclude-deb-section=x11 --exclude-deb-section=gnome ..." and "--exclude-deb-section=(x11|gnome|...)" |
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| 18:15.47 | flashbck | I guess I can just give up and not exclude anything... |
| 18:15.59 | flashbck | dvs: how large is your mirror using apt-mirror? |
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| 18:16.40 | flashbck | the full 300+Gb for just amd64? |
| 18:16.44 | dvs | flashbck, I think it's about 80GB |
| 18:17.22 | flashbck | oh, that's not bad at all. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what https://www.debian.org/mirror/size is telling me |
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| 18:17.57 | dvs | Oh, it's 137GB |
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| 18:18.13 | dvs | according to du |
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| 18:18.37 | flashbck | are you limiting to a single architecture? |
| 18:18.44 | dvs | yes |
| 18:19.07 | flashbck | okay, well if I can't get the exclude to work, then I can live with that |
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| 18:25.53 | DammitJim | I need to add more space to a couple of LVs; however my PVs are on a software raid |
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| 18:26.10 | DammitJim | do you guys know how I can achieve this? This is in a vmware environment |
| 18:26.32 | greycat | you're using LVM on top of mdraid on top of VMware on top of ...? |
| 18:26.52 | *** join/#debian k0mmo (~k0mmo@ool-182d2f22.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 18:27.07 | DammitJim | oh and if this is possible while the server is online |
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| 18:27.55 | DammitJim | local drives on a VMware host :D |
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| 18:32.03 | flashbck | Thanks for they help, y'all. I'll update you if I find out anything more |
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| 18:37.27 | roylaprattep | is there a good howto to configure freeradius on debian stretch somewhere? |
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| 18:57.02 | user___ | hello |
| 19:00.27 | annadane | hi user___ |
| 19:01.44 | NetTerminalGene | i want debian to make avx2 optimized build |
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| 19:02.59 | azeem | NetTerminalGene: of what? |
| 19:03.32 | NetTerminalGene | avx2 optimized from source |
| 19:03.47 | user___ | Why don't you build it yourself? |
| 19:03.53 | user___ | With correct flags |
| 19:03.59 | azeem | NetTerminalGene: ok, but which package? and why? |
| 19:04.18 | NetTerminalGene | complete distro. all packages |
| 19:04.20 | azeem | NetTerminalGene: oh, you mean Debian should do it? |
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| 19:04.47 | azeem | Debian isn't interested in doing this, as the binary packages need to run on all supported cpus |
| 19:05.13 | NetTerminalGene | people should dump their old cpus |
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| 19:08.55 | jelly | !nopony NetTerminalGene |
| 19:08.55 | dpkg | NetTerminalGene: http://www.brainfuel.tv/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/nopony.jpg |
| 19:09.45 | irl25519 | NetTerminalGene should dump his cpu |
| 19:11.04 | NetTerminalGene | my cpu beats yours |
| 19:11.33 | cbthree | i installed buster on my samsung chromebook 3 and everything works just fine. The only issue i have is that the microphone does not work, that is: no audio input from built in microphone. Can anyone help me overcome this problem? |
| 19:11.46 | renner | theoretical question: is it possible to tar a directory from within itself, or will that just run until system crash? |
| 19:11.57 | Bushmills | that's possibly what the deb-src lines in source.list are for |
| 19:12.12 | Bushmills | sources, even |
| 19:12.14 | jelly | NetTerminalGene, more seriously, tools that can actually gain substantial amounts of performance usually support various builds of libraries and can pick the best based on runtime checks |
| 19:12.39 | ratrace | i think this is in reference to feh dorah considering going avx2 as the minimum supported hw base |
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| 19:12.52 | trek00 | NetTerminalGene: recompiling all the debian archive will give you little to no performances benefits, only some packages gain something with architecture specific optimizations and only a small fraction of the software has different path for specific architectures: you could rebuild only them to have the same results |
| 19:13.34 | Habbie | trek00, it's not just about paths - it's also about what a compiler can do; but i do share the conclusion, rebuilding just a few should give most of the benefits |
| 19:14.08 | jelly | renner, GNU tar cowardly refuses to include the destination in the archive. Try it. |
| 19:14.10 | *** part/#debian cbthree (~cbthree@144.red-80-28-220.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:14.15 | trek00 | renner: you can do it, but place the tarball on another directory, like: tar cfvz ../filename.tar.gz . |
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| 19:14.24 | NetTerminalGene | intel's optimized clear linux beats all other distros out there |
| 19:14.31 | ratrace | phoronix even did a benchmark for this; little or no gains when you compile for specific amd64 cpu: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=omlx-znver1-linux&num=1 |
| 19:14.34 | Habbie | NetTerminalGene, so why not run that? |
| 19:14.39 | irl25519 | sounds like you should use that distro |
| 19:14.44 | jelly | renner, mkdir a; touch a/touch; cd a; tar cvf a.tar ../a |
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| 19:14.49 | trek00 | Habbie: i mean different code paths, not filesystem path sorry |
| 19:15.01 | Habbie | trek00, i understood that :) |
| 19:15.01 | jelly | NetTerminalGene, do you have a debian tech support issue we can help with? |
| 19:15.09 | NetTerminalGene | because it doesn't have important packages |
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| 19:15.21 | ratrace | i wonder why |
| 19:15.35 | NetTerminalGene | jelly, ok |
| 19:16.37 | renner | trek, jelly: the thought started with "how to make a system image on a remote virtual server and back it up".. maybe there is a smarter way, although I suppose one could tar each top directory individually and keep the result in / |
| 19:16.54 | trek00 | NetTerminalGene: rebuilding packages is nearly automated with dpkg-buildpackage, you can try to rebuild some package you like |
| 19:17.05 | Bushmills | wonders how Intel's clear Linux could possibly beat Armbian |
| 19:17.42 | cbthree | i have not found any info on the debian wiki regarding the issue i encountered. |
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| 19:19.15 | trek00 | renner: if you need a system image, you should dd the entire partitions, instead if you need to make incremental backups, via network, rsync/rsnapshot are your friends :) |
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| 19:20.24 | SH2 | Hey:), Does anyone know a German Debian irc channel? |
| 19:20.24 | renner | thanks trek00 |
| 19:20.31 | jelly | !de |
| 19:20.31 | dpkg | Deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in #debian.de (auf irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net oder irc.belwue.de) - German speaking users please go to #debian.de (on irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net or irc.belwue.de). |
| 19:21.09 | SH2 | Thank YOU. |
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| 19:23.07 | cbthree | someone told me that upgrading to kernel 5.2 may solve my problem as 4.9 may not fully support my hardware. The thing is that i can not find the kernel 5.2 deb package for buster |
| 19:23.23 | greycat | There aren't any Debian 5.2 kernel packages at this time. |
| 19:23.34 | greycat | You can build your own. |
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| 19:23.48 | cbthree | greycat, how can i solve my problem with 4.19? |
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| 19:24.23 | tarzeau | cbthree: build your own kernels ? |
| 19:24.43 | greycat | you said 4.9 once, and 4.19 once... not even sure what you're asking at this point |
| 19:24.51 | cbthree | tarzeau, that is something a newbie should not be expected to do, right? |
| 19:25.01 | irl25519 | Is this a good place to ask an iptables question? |
| 19:25.05 | tarzeau | cbthree: but he should be able to do it :) and learn it |
| 19:25.10 | jelly | cbthree, what does "uname -a" really say? |
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| 19:25.53 | cbthree | tarzeau, i installed buster on my samsung chromebook 3 and everything works just fine. The only issue i have is that the microphone does not work, that is: no audio input from built in microphone. |
| 19:25.54 | user___ | lol |
| 19:26.00 | cbthree | tarzeau, Debian 4.19.37-5+deb10u1 (2019-07-19) |
| 19:26.11 | jelly | so it's buster and 4.19 |
| 19:26.11 | tarzeau | eek buster doesn't have kernel-package |
| 19:26.24 | Habbie | ,v kernel-package |
| 19:26.25 | judd | Package: kernel-package on amd64 -- jessie: 13.014+nmu1; stretch-backports: 13.018+nmu1~bpo9+1; sid: 13.018+nmu1 |
| 19:26.25 | jelly | tarzeau, welcome to 2010. |
| 19:26.40 | jelly | we don't build kernels that way any more |
| 19:26.42 | tarzeau | but sid has kernel-package |
| 19:26.52 | jelly | and it's borked |
| 19:26.52 | user___ | okay, so my thread was deleted from debians facebook page few months ago about weboob scandal |
| 19:26.53 | tarzeau | jelly: no? wtf did i miss? |
| 19:27.00 | greycat | upstream kernel sources have some sort of make target that creates a .deb, so you just use that, unless I missed another meeting |
| 19:27.09 | annadane | user___, we're not in charge of debian's facebook page |
| 19:27.16 | jelly | tarzeau, upstream's "make deb-pkg" and whatever kernel-handbook says to do these days |
| 19:27.16 | annadane | i wouldn't drag #debian into this |
| 19:27.29 | user___ | but it is so interesting |
| 19:27.30 | tarzeau | cbthree: luck you, it got so easy |
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| 19:27.55 | humbot | weboob! |
| 19:28.03 | user___ | interesting discussion could be held about ti |
| 19:28.09 | user___ | it* |
| 19:28.13 | annadane | there's #debian-offtopic |
| 19:28.16 | cbthree | tarzeau, the only thing that i need to solve is the no audio input from built in microphone issue |
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| 19:28.21 | user___ | but it is about debian project |
| 19:28.30 | annadane | okay, but this is a support channel for technical questions |
| 19:28.44 | tarzeau | cbthree: and the issue is it's noisy or doesn't work at all? oss? alsa? pulseaudio? something else? |
| 19:28.45 | user___ | ohh ok |
| 19:28.59 | user___ | so debian project is not running debian facebook page? |
| 19:29.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1571] by debhelper |
| 19:29.03 | azeem | if you only see tarzeau talking you wouldn't know I agree |
| 19:29.32 | azeem | user___: no |
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| 19:31.16 | annadane | user___, if you do want to contribute to debian by starting a certain conversation about policy, let us know what it is and we can direct you to the proper channels |
| 19:31.28 | annadane | i'm not really familiar with weboob scandal or whatever |
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| 19:31.50 | greycat | !weboob |
| 19:31.50 | dpkg | It's not just the name. It uses gratuitously sexual icons, and derogatory/inflammatory language in its output. See <https://git.weboob.org/weboob/devel/merge_requests/228> for example. |
| 19:31.56 | tarzeau | annadane: it was possible to apt-get install sex and wine (3 packages), and i think sextractor also still exists (and is useful) |
| 19:32.13 | annadane | oh. that. |
| 19:32.17 | annadane | goes away |
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| 19:33.10 | user___ | okay a little bit better |
| 19:33.19 | cbthree | https://paste.debian.net/1094103/ |
| 19:33.25 | jelly | whatever happened to pornview |
| 19:33.46 | annadane | i'm more surprised polybar isn't packaged yet |
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| 19:34.09 | tarzeau | jelly: driftnet? |
| 19:34.17 | user___ | okay a little bit better |
| 19:34.28 | user___ | but still, why are people so sensitive |
| 19:35.02 | tarzeau | annadane: https://github.com/polybar/polybar if it had been a game, i'd have packaged it |
| 19:35.13 | renner | is there a magical fix for "Could not perform immediate configuration on 'libdevmapper1.02.1'" when upgrading to jessie? |
| 19:35.22 | azeem | to jessie? |
| 19:35.27 | renner | yup |
| 19:35.29 | annadane | i know polybar relies on a metric... lot, of dependencies |
| 19:35.46 | jelly | user___, why are people so insensitive? |
| 19:36.21 | user___ | idk im in balkans and our way of socilising is through nsults |
| 19:36.28 | user___ | insults |
| 19:36.35 | tarzeau | user___: not the whole world is balkans |
| 19:36.43 | tarzeau | user___: other places, different cultures |
| 19:36.52 | jelly | user___, I'm from the same country, and that's not a fucking excuse. |
| 19:36.57 | azeem | annadane: you could package it yourself |
| 19:37.03 | renner | azeem: started at squeeze, marching towards buster |
| 19:37.04 | cbthree | jelly, https://paste.debian.net/1094104/ |
| 19:37.17 | user___ | why isn't whole world balkans |
| 19:37.20 | tarzeau | besides there's 25% liking your jokes, 50% who don't care, 25% how just dislike you |
| 19:37.22 | annadane | yeah i could. i personally have no need for it, i'm just surprised it isn't in debian |
| 19:37.23 | humbot | maybe try the magic channel |
| 19:37.24 | user___ | poor and immature |
| 19:37.28 | humbot | oops |
| 19:37.51 | tarzeau | user___: because stalin failed? |
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| 19:38.03 | afidegnum | how do i find if i have a CUDA capable system ? using debian 9 |
| 19:38.04 | user___ | it was actually Tito |
| 19:38.24 | tarzeau | afidegnum: lspci |grep VGA if you see something with nvidia |
| 19:39.06 | jelly | user___, that particular dictator actually had class and would not use slurs, homophobic or otherwise, in public |
| 19:40.07 | jelly | cbthree, you could ask #alsa, but if it's already known there are fixes in 5.2 kernel, your best bet is to build a 5.2 kernel |
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| 19:41.24 | cbthree | jelly, i've been told the problem might have been fixed in 5.2. Might is not certainty |
| 19:41.32 | jelly | !tias |
| 19:41.32 | dpkg | TIAS is "Try It And See". |
| 19:41.33 | user___ | hmm |
| 19:41.38 | jelly | !immediate configuration |
| 19:41.39 | dpkg | When upgrading from squeeze to wheezy, apt may stop with "E: Could not perform immediate configuration on '$package'." First, try running apt-get upgrade; . If that fails, try running apt-get dist-upgrade -o APT::Immediate-Configure=0; instead. Finally, if that doesn't work, if $package isn't an Essential package, then "dpkg -r $package; apt-get -f install. You should also read <release notes>. |
| 19:41.42 | jelly | renner, ^ ? |
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| 19:41.48 | afidegnum | 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v3 Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 06) |
| 19:41.48 | afidegnum | tarzeau: no luck, right ? |
| 19:41.57 | cbthree | gotta go. |
| 19:42.06 | jelly | renner, you wouldn't be skipping releases and going from squeeze to jessie? |
| 19:42.08 | tarzeau | afidegnum: no i don't think so. what is it you want to do with CUDA? |
| 19:42.16 | renner | no, doing them one by one |
| 19:42.50 | jelly | I guess you can try that anyway |
| 19:42.53 | renner | but on the way from wheezy to jessie, libdevmapper is somehow unhappy and causing dpkg to fail without telling me what it needs |
| 19:43.07 | afidegnum | tarzeau: some machine learning stuff |
| 19:43.30 | jelly | cuda is nvidia-specific to the best of my knowledge |
| 19:43.31 | tarzeau | afidegnum: using tensorflow or pytorch? |
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| 19:43.45 | azeem | renner: do you have some more output? Or maybe just the wohle output of apt-get upgrade? |
| 19:43.49 | renner | jelly: what I'm hoping is the case is that I can configure apt to skip this issue... not sure what the consequences are |
| 19:43.50 | afidegnum | pytorch |
| 19:43.52 | tarzeau | afidegnum: i know tensorflow can work slowly with cpu only just fine (just slower) |
| 19:44.16 | jelly | renner, read what dpkg said above. |
| 19:44.31 | afidegnum | :) |
| 19:44.34 | afidegnum | ok let me give it a try |
| 19:45.02 | renner | azeem: "E: Could not perform immediate configuration on 'libdevmapper1.02.1'. Please see man 5 apt.conf under APT::Immediate-Configure for details. (2)" |
| 19:45.17 | tarzeau | afidegnum: just use pip3, and not pip2 please |
| 19:45.33 | tarzeau | neither of them is packaged for debian (tensorflow is in experimental, but not built with bazel) |
| 19:45.57 | afidegnum | yes, using pip3 |
| 19:45.58 | tarzeau | afidegnum: just being curious "some machine learning", any more details? for image data? |
| 19:46.13 | afidegnum | openAI |
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| 19:48.12 | renner | thanks jelly |
| 19:49.55 | afidegnum | tarzeau: what about with AMD, will it work? |
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| 19:50.44 | tarzeau | afidegnum: i think there's something called opencl, that is not nvidia specific, but it didn't work for a friends amd hw (the memtestcl thing) |
| 19:51.04 | tarzeau | afidegnum: i've only worked with nvidia cuda cards 1080+ti/2080+ti (8/11 gb) |
| 19:51.12 | tarzeau | afidegnum: that works, fast. no idea about non-nvidia |
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| 19:51.28 | tarzeau | i'm also very glad about nvtop, for whoever packaged it. thanks! |
| 19:51.58 | afidegnum | ok |
| 19:52.14 | renner | and what's this about startpar damaging installed software? |
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| 19:52.54 | tarzeau | i know some people use nvcc directly, some do cuda via pytorch(fb)/tensorflow(google). and that just works best with nvidia, since 5+ years |
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| 19:53.20 | tarzeau | it'll take years for non-nvidia to catch up, well maybe apple is the exception with their own ml kit |
| 19:55.01 | tarzeau | intel has some "retarded" deals with microsoft (only ms can think of stuff like , i don't remember the name, but some printer producers created printing hardware that'd only work with windows) |
| 19:55.20 | renner | https://pastebin.com/vkqew2es |
| 19:55.28 | afidegnum | ok, i tested it's ok, let's hope it doesn't slow down along the way |
| 19:55.35 | renner | should I be worried about this, or is it just a procedural warning? |
| 19:55.36 | tarzeau | i've had to throw away some SSD storage that only supported windows |
| 19:55.39 | tarzeau | (intel SSD) |
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| 20:01.06 | trek00 | renner: on buster? |
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| 20:05.44 | renner | trek00: no, I'm still going from wheezy to jessie |
| 20:05.56 | trek00 | renner: if you are upgrading, try to upgrade sysvint at first, then startpar |
| 20:06.09 | trek00 | renner: they have conflicting versions may be |
| 20:06.43 | renner | trek00: doing that pulls in startpar as a dependency |
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| 20:06.59 | renner | same error code |
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| 20:09.14 | Bushmills | "apt depends startpar" says "replaces sysvinit-utils", so the error is justified |
| 20:09.26 | Psyndrome | Hi |
| 20:09.49 | Bushmills | apt show startpar explains "Used by the sysv-rc boot system executor to run init.d scripts in parallel" |
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| 20:10.39 | Psyndrome | I managed to fix the drive after re reading the rant chats |
| 20:10.45 | Psyndrome | Thanks a lot |
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| 20:11.17 | trek00 | renner: probably Bushmills is right, it seems startpart was introduced with jessie, to replace standard sysvinit scripts execution with its own |
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| 20:11.52 | renner | Bushmills: yes, that is my understanding, but I don't know why it can't get past that point. replace one with the other, done. instead, it stops the process with no obvious option of how to proceed |
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| 20:12.48 | rain2 | does anyone have an fstab file that mounts stuff like /proc and /sysfs for a chroot? |
| 20:13.46 | Bushmills | because init now depends on systemd-sysv |
| 20:14.01 | Bushmills | rain, you can use mount --bind |
| 20:14.10 | trek00 | renner: it seems the upgrade path was not so well tested |
| 20:14.16 | greycat | ,v startpar |
| 20:14.17 | judd | Package: startpar on amd64 -- jessie: 0.59-3; stretch: 0.59-3.1; buster: 0.61-1; bullseye: 0.63-1; sid: 0.63-1 |
| 20:14.37 | greycat | That's one of those things that people bolted onto sysvinit to try to make it less bad, yeah? |
| 20:14.51 | Bushmills | I'm still not quite comfortable with systemd |
| 20:14.55 | tarzeau | yeah. and there openrc was there |
| 20:15.11 | tarzeau | Bushmills: neither am i, and i keep hating it |
| 20:15.44 | trek00 | greycat: yes and it is very fine, this is only a problem with debian control file |
| 20:15.54 | tarzeau | Bushmills: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#Adoption came across this today. cool what void linux did |
| 20:16.01 | tarzeau | (secretly hoping debian will do it too) |
| 20:16.33 | renner | so consensus is that my current installation is screwed? |
| 20:16.54 | trek00 | renner: if you try to force installation like dpkg --force-something starpar.deb? |
| 20:17.26 | tarzeau | the only installation screwed i ever saw, was the one where i run mkfs.ext2 on the root file system (15 years ago), still got the disk, and still no idea how to recover it |
| 20:17.58 | greycat | that "Adoption" section looks rather political... why even include Devuan there at all, since clearly it will never adopt? |
| 20:18.17 | trek00 | rain2: on fstab you should have something like: proc /chroot/proc proc defaults 0 0 |
| 20:19.00 | rain2 | thanks |
| 20:19.21 | trek00 | greycat: adoption means how much was included at overall, so it's good to list who changed and who not |
| 20:19.21 | Bushmills | rain2, you may also want to mount --bind /dev to chroot |
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| 20:19.52 | greycat | well, it's a battle I am not going to join today |
| 20:19.52 | renner | tarzeau: well, this is remote, so if it doesn't start up again, there are no escapes |
| 20:20.02 | trek00 | rain2: yes /dev /proc and /sys are often required |
| 20:20.56 | tds | rain2: on the subject of systemd, you can also use something like systemd-nspawn -D /chroot rather than chroot /chroot to do all the bind mounting etc for you, more or less :) |
| 20:21.03 | tarzeau | renner: just never reboot? :) |
| 20:21.06 | trek00 | renner: if you already upgraded some packages and still in the middle of upgrade process without finishing it, yes |
| 20:21.17 | rain2 | woah cool |
| 20:21.52 | tarzeau | renner: i've got a savegame of nethack on nethack.alt.org (on the final altar before the planes, saved 10 years ago). if you don't move you can't die. |
| 20:21.56 | renner | tarzeau: it's managed, they will reboot it for me periodically, nothing I can do |
| 20:21.58 | rain2 | nspawn program does not seem to be on my system |
| 20:22.06 | greycat | systemd-nspawn is optional, I think |
| 20:22.21 | tarzeau | renner: remove all reboot binaries |
| 20:22.36 | tds | yeah, it's in the systemd-container package iirc |
| 20:22.46 | greycat | which is ... Priority: optional |
| 20:22.52 | trek00 | renner: there are some packages that got upgraded? |
| 20:23.18 | renner | tarzeau: pretty sure I can't prevent it with software means |
| 20:23.23 | renner | trek00: yes, there are |
| 20:23.40 | trek00 | renner: well try to force startpar installation to continue |
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| 20:24.33 | trek00 | renner: dpkg --force-all startpar.deb |
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| 20:25.04 | renner | trek00 it seems to be completed the installation that way |
| 20:25.14 | renner | *completing |
| 20:25.36 | trek00 | renner: well now install the new sysvinit packages and then resume the upgrade process |
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| 20:27.12 | renner | yeah, I meant, I am at that point... but the real magic will be in the reboot, I guess - question is whether to continue upgrading towards stretch and buster and find out later if the reboot fails, hoping for special healing powers of anything that might have been broken, or find out the truth immediately |
| 20:27.53 | trek00 | renner: you made a backup of the disk before? |
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| 20:28.18 | litb | hello folks |
| 20:28.36 | litb | where can I get the date that I last upgraded my system? |
| 20:28.54 | greycat | /var/log/dpkg.log ? |
| 20:29.18 | greycat | or one of its backups, if it got rotated since then |
| 20:29.25 | greycat | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Aug 1 00:00 /var/log/dpkg.log |
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| 20:29.42 | Ede|Popede | does curl have a safety belt? half of the time i write some binary crap to the terminal. |
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| 20:29.59 | renner | trek00: yeah, I have all the bits I should need to reconstitute if a fresh install is the only option; going back to squeeze and trying again might be adventurous, though because that disk image is probably not available anymore, nor the one for wheezy, I bet |
| 20:30.12 | litb | any idea? |
| 20:30.26 | renner | oh, and I think I have an auto backup facility that I've never used |
| 20:30.29 | trek00 | litb: read greycat answer |
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| 20:30.48 | renner | so there's probably an automatic image hanging in that for the next five days or so, come to think of it |
| 20:30.59 | greycat | apparently they disconnected and re-joined in the middle of receiving answers |
| 20:31.19 | trek00 | renner: normally i would do: create a new instance of the system starting from backups, try to upgrade, if it's all ok, try on the production machine |
| 20:31.36 | trek00 | greycat: oops |
| 20:31.39 | litb | trek00, sorry, I disconnected and missed his answer :/ |
| 20:32.01 | trek00 | litb: check /var/log/dpkg.log or its backups /var/log/dpkg.log.[0-9]* |
| 20:32.09 | litb | it appears that the last update was on Sat, Jun 15 2019 17:45:53 +0200 |
| 20:32.13 | litb | thanks trek00 |
| 20:32.17 | litb | from aptitude log |
| 20:32.38 | greycat | you really shouldn't be going that long between updates |
| 20:32.47 | litb | wonder whether I should upgrade my unstable system now |
| 20:32.55 | litb | hides for having asked about unstable |
| 20:33.13 | trek00 | :) |
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| 20:34.38 | trek00 | litb: who knows, it's unstable :) |
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| 20:47.24 | irl25519 | Can anyone tell me how to forward traffic from wireguard to a docker container on debian? Presumably there's an iptables rule for forwarding from wgnet0 to the ethernet interface of the container? |
| 20:47.32 | irl25519 | Been trying but my iptables-foo is weak |
| 20:51.06 | Wulf | irl25519: that question makes little sense |
| 20:51.15 | Wulf | irl25519: what traffic do you want to forward and why? |
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| 20:52.07 | Bushmills | irl25519: good news - there's not much use in learning iptables any longer |
| 20:52.35 | irl25519 | ok let me rephrase. all wireguard traffic needs to go through a specific docker container (which will basically inspect the traffic) and then the traffic will be forwarded out the container, which will then hit the default gateway to leave the machine |
| 20:52.59 | irl25519 | i seem to be struggling only with the first part |
| 20:53.37 | Wulf | irl25519: search for "lartc" / policy routing |
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| 20:54.23 | irl25519 | is that the same thing as PBR? because i've tried to do some source-based routing using that but damn it's hard to use |
| 20:54.26 | Wulf | irl25519: i.e. create a new routing table and use "ip rule add ... iif wgnet0" |
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| 20:56.32 | irl25519 | ok, i'll go back to trying the ip rule add ... |
| 20:56.45 | irl25519 | with the custom table |
| 20:57.09 | irl25519 | if that's the best way to do things |
| 20:57.14 | Wulf | irl25519: out of interest: How do you "inspect" the traffic and why? |
| 20:58.04 | irl25519 | this is only useful for my personal unencrypted traffic |
| 20:58.37 | irl25519 | content filtering etc |
| 20:58.57 | Wulf | okay. And how? |
| 20:58.59 | trek00 | irl25519: do you logs dropped packages to debug? |
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| 21:00.00 | Wulf | irl25519: I mean I assume there's a process running in your container. How will it get access to the traffic? pcap? nfqueue? transparent proxy? |
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| 21:00.22 | irl25519 | raw sock. packets matching a certain custom filter are dropped, rest are forwarded |
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| 21:00.27 | Akuw | i am confused about install linux on Proliant d385 g7 |
| 21:00.53 | irl25519 | libpcap |
| 21:01.02 | Wulf | irl25519: I didn't know pcap can drop packets |
| 21:01.04 | Akuw | i installed but cant boot, there are 2 disk, 1 array logical and 1 small disk about 4gb |
| 21:02.18 | irl25519 | got transparent proxy solution too |
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| 21:03.38 | trek00 | irl25519: net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 in sysctl? |
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| 21:06.06 | trek00 | irl25519: may be it can help you to review your rules https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-forward-ports-through-a-linux-gateway-with-iptables |
| 21:06.37 | irl25519 | trek00: yes forwarding is enabled |
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| 21:08.03 | irl25519 | been looking at the rules but it seems iptables is not enough for the path i want to make. |
| 21:08.42 | trek00 | irl25519: usually it's straight forward to enable forwarding, so if packets do not go over, you could logs them to debug with a rule like: iptables -A FORWARD -m state --state INVALID -j LOG |
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| 21:09.42 | irl25519 | that sounds extremely useful. because every time i try a forwarding rule that isn't quite correct, the only thing i can see is that packets don't arrive on the destination bridge |
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| 21:10.56 | trek00 | irl25519: sorry I past the wrong command, you should add this at the end: iptables -A FORWARD -j LOG |
| 21:11.22 | trek00 | irl25519: not at start because it logs every packet, but only to the end as it would log packets not intercepted by other rules |
| 21:11.57 | irl25519 | thanks for the correction |
| 21:12.01 | irl25519 | i'm going to try it |
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| 21:12.33 | irl25519 | was just in the middle of trying out wulf's suggestion. got the infamous "nexthop has invalid gateway" error. nice and specific. |
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| 21:15.22 | benj1 | hi all |
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| 21:16.04 | benj1 | is there like a newbies channel? |
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| 21:16.49 | petn-randall | benj1: This is also the newbies channel. :) |
| 21:17.17 | dvs | There's newbies here?!? |
| 21:17.20 | dvs | runs away |
| 21:17.51 | trek00 | :D |
| 21:17.57 | annadane | how do i computer ??? |
| 21:17.58 | benj1 | xD |
| 21:18.03 | dvs | heh |
| 21:18.56 | petn-randall | benj1: Feel free to ask, we'll try our best to help you out. If the question has already been asked very often, we sometimes even have a factoid or documentation written for that case. |
| 21:19.25 | benj1 | Alright, cheers |
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| 21:27.17 | benj1 | am ready to ask now |
| 21:27.24 | dvs | runs away |
| 21:27.51 | irl25519 | :D |
| 21:29.19 | benj1 | what was petn-randall doing, the way he was mentioning me like that? |
| 21:31.43 | hypn0 | he was answering your question - is there like a newbies channel? |
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| 21:46.25 | petn-randall | benj1: Most IRC clients allow you to type the first letters of a nick, and autocomplete it with tab. So I typed "ben<tab>" which turned into "benj1: ". And most IRC clients highlight you then. |
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| 23:14.32 | zhxk | !paste |
| 23:14.33 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
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| 23:21.45 | mrquincy | Wine is very very slow after upgrading from Stretch to Buster. I worry that my Intel GPU is not accelerating 3D graphics. Anyone else run into this? |
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| 23:22.20 | mrquincy | glxinfo says "client glx vendor string: Mesa Project and SGI" |
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| 23:24.56 | mrquincy | aha, perhaps a question for intel-gfx |
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