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| 00:45.03 | SerajewelKS | side note on that topic, i like the idea of btrfs but for redundancy i still don't trust it over dmraid + ext4 because the latter has more mature recovery options |
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| 00:45.25 | SerajewelKS | hopefully that will be changing. i don't know of any reliable "my array is hosed" tools for btrfs. |
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| 00:48.46 | SerajewelKS | i don't have any opinion on zfs yet. i'm comfortable enough with dmraid at this point though. |
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| 00:56.06 | earend1 | is it possible w/ btrfs or sth to have static part, and a dynamic one which consits of a differentiate to the static, so that in principle its possible to revert the state by detaching the dynamic one. kinda like vhd works. i was able to mount vhd as a loop readonly drive only so far. |
| 00:56.33 | phogg | SerajewelKS: I don't like the idea of btrfs or zfs; it seems like a layering violation. If you have to break layering to achieve the result something is wrong. |
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| 00:58.24 | earend1 | or something comparable? or can i use dynamic vhd eventually? and what tooling would i need for that |
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| 00:59.36 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: dmraid is for hardware raid? if the controller dies, you need the exact chipset to access again to your disks? |
| 01:00.16 | SerajewelKS | earend1: it's also possible to do that with LVM snapshots |
| 01:00.33 | SerajewelKS | trek00: dmraid is the "standard" linux software raid |
| 01:00.39 | earend1 | ah. okay. SerajewelKS thanks for the hint |
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| 01:01.16 | SerajewelKS | earend1: i'm not sure how it works in btrfs or zfs, but with LVM (since it has no knowledge of the filesystem) you need free space in the volume group |
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| 01:02.03 | earend1 | a volume group u say. is the snapshot a full backup? |
| 01:02.16 | SerajewelKS | earend1: and you allocate a certain amount of space in the snapshot. the original volume becomes copy-on-write (a write to the source volume that doesn't exist in the snapshot causes that extent to be copied into the snapshot first). |
| 01:02.38 | earend1 | ah great |
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| 01:02.43 | SerajewelKS | earend1: a snapshot is a point-in-time copy-on-write copy of the source volume |
| 01:03.16 | earend1 | that sounds exactly like what i need. can i configure that with the debian install tool? |
| 01:03.19 | SerajewelKS | earend1: if a copy is needed and the snapshot doesn't have any free extents, however, the snapshot fails and all requests to that device cause I/O errors |
| 01:03.24 | SerajewelKS | earend1: yes |
| 01:03.33 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: md is the software raid (double checked now) dmraid seems to works with chipset |
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| 01:04.19 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i've seen dmraid used to describe both at different points in time |
| 01:04.37 | SerajewelKS | i guess i should call it mdadm raid |
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| 01:05.23 | SerajewelKS | earend1: so LVM snapshots are generally expected to be short-lived |
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| 01:05.54 | earend1 | wait. no. you say it writes always to snapshot and source? |
| 01:06.07 | SerajewelKS | earend1: we use them to take backups of production databases that require exclusive locks to safely dump. if we take the backup against the production database server, the web application is inaccessible while the backup is running. |
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| 01:06.33 | SerajewelKS | earend1: so we create an LVM snapshot, mount it, launch a second database server process against the snapshot volume, dump from that, then toss the snapshot |
| 01:06.46 | SerajewelKS | earend1: the result is we can take a consistent dump from the production system without locks |
| 01:06.55 | SerajewelKS | earend1: it can write to both depending on what's going on |
| 01:07.19 | SerajewelKS | earend1: if you write to an extent in the source and the snapshot has not allocated that extent yet, then the source extent is copied to the snapshot, then the source extent is overwritten with the new data. |
| 01:07.29 | earend1 | i basically want to revert all data to safe point. you seem to describe a cluster ther or sth |
| 01:07.41 | SerajewelKS | earend1: if you write to the snapshot, OR you write to the source in an extent that was already copied to the snapshot, then no copy is needed |
| 01:07.52 | GigaFlow | àøòôääí |
| 01:07.56 | GigaFlow | finally |
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| 01:08.09 | SerajewelKS | earend1: another way to think about it is that any time that you would "destroy" old data on the original volume, it is just-in-time copied to the snapshot |
| 01:08.29 | earend1 | ok. than i dont need a snapshot. |
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| 01:08.33 | SerajewelKS | earend1: if this operation is attempted when the snapshot has no free extents then the snapshot becomes invalid |
| 01:08.41 | earend1 | then* |
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| 01:09.05 | SerajewelKS | earend1: you can indeed revert using this mechanism however. you can "merge" a snapshot back into the origin volume, which returns the origin to the state it was in when the snapshot was taken. however, you can do this if the origin is mounted, obviously. |
| 01:09.19 | SerajewelKS | can't do this |
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| 01:09.36 | earend1 | wait wait wait. .. |
| 01:09.41 | SerajewelKS | waits |
| 01:10.13 | earend1 | merge a snapshot back into the origin volume to get the origin?! |
| 01:10.22 | earend1 | is that some xor trick or sth? |
| 01:10.42 | SerajewelKS | earend1: you make a snapshot. then you alter the origin. the original extents are copied in the snapshot to preserve the point-in-time snapshot. |
| 01:10.46 | tds | SerajewelKS: hmm, could you not just take the backup from a read only slave, and avoid the snapshot dance? |
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| 01:11.06 | earend1 | origin = origin ... origin + difference = actual state ..that would make sense. |
| 01:11.07 | SerajewelKS | tds: pff you think we're running replication? |
| 01:11.10 | phogg | if you're replicating, yes |
| 01:11.31 | SerajewelKS | earend1: think of this this way: the snapshot is a layer on top of the origin |
| 01:11.45 | earend1 | so = difference |
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| 01:11.53 | tds | I mean, a slave sounds like a much simpler solution than the snapshots to me :) |
| 01:11.55 | SerajewelKS | earend1: changes to the origin will first cause the origin extent to copy up to the snapshot so when you lay the snapshot on top of the origin, you get the origin _at the time of the snapshot_ |
| 01:12.08 | earend1 | aaah |
| 01:12.12 | earend1 | now i get you. |
| 01:12.31 | earend1 | so it's like what i described with the ability to change the origin. |
| 01:12.33 | earend1 | okay. |
| 01:12.35 | earend1 | but... |
| 01:12.37 | SerajewelKS | earend1: merging the snapshot into the origin is just copying the changed extents that the snapshot has been recorded back to the origin, which restores it to the state at the time of the snapshot |
| 01:12.46 | SerajewelKS | earend1: you can change both the origin and the snapshot :) |
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| 01:13.02 | SerajewelKS | tds: it also requires more money :) |
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| 01:13.13 | earend1 | i want the origin in all cases to be bulletproof. would you recommend sth else in that case? |
| 01:13.31 | SerajewelKS | that depends on your goal |
| 01:13.38 | earend1 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 01:13.50 | earend1 | i just described it. |
| 01:14.03 | tds | SerajewelKS: I think I'm just used to dealing with rather smaller databases where just setting up replication and backups there is easier and cheaper in terms of time than the snapshots + second database daemon stuff :) |
| 01:14.11 | SerajewelKS | snapshots aren't a backup solution if that's what you're asking, but they _can_ help create _consistent_ backups |
| 01:14.14 | tds | (plus we tend to do replication anyway, so meh, it makes sense :) |
| 01:14.18 | earend1 | thats fine. |
| 01:14.31 | SerajewelKS | tds: sure, if you have replication then it makes sense |
| 01:14.33 | earend1 | so what would u use" |
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| 01:14.43 | earend1 | ah |
| 01:14.49 | earend1 | pardon.. other thread. |
| 01:14.59 | SerajewelKS | tds: it depends if it's cheaper to write a script or acquire a second server. in our case i wrote the script in a few hours which is easily 1-2 months of server rent. |
| 01:15.46 | earend1 | thx for the help bru |
| 01:16.05 | SerajewelKS | earend1: snapshots are good for short-lived copies: (1) you want to take a filesystem-view backup but need it to be atomic (you can't tar up a mysql datadir while it's running, for example) -- the snapshot gives you the atomic view |
| 01:16.21 | SerajewelKS | (2) you want to experiment with, say, a debian upgrade, but want the ability to roll it back if things go sideways |
| 01:16.52 | earend1 | i once read somewhere brfs or so can do reverts.. but then all manuals were too much.. nothing digestable in short |
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| 01:17.02 | SerajewelKS | (in that case you should also take a full backup, but a snapshot is faster to restore) |
| 01:17.06 | earend1 | kk thx. |
| 01:17.26 | tds | having fancy integration between your bootloader and filesystem can be really handy in the second case, eg if you want to be able to just select a snapshot and have it boot back off that |
| 01:17.28 | SerajewelKS | earend1: btrfs can do that too. it's a bit more flexible in that you don't have to allocate a specific amount of storage to the snapshot. |
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| 01:17.51 | SerajewelKS | earend1: in btrfs a snapshot is just an alternate tree, but the trees can share nodes |
| 01:17.53 | tds | zfs has boot environment stuff for that, though I think grub is still lacking support :( |
| 01:18.27 | SerajewelKS | earend1: LVM works the way it does because it's just a block device layer. it doesn't care about filesystems, so it has to assume that the entire disk surface matters. |
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| 01:19.09 | earend1 | speaking of grub and other loaders.. why is it so hard to code a little tool in which u can browse the fs and launch an iso..an img.. a vhd ..a partition or whatever. |
| 01:19.24 | earend1 | i thought a turing machine can do that in principle/ |
| 01:19.35 | earend1 | fuck uefi useless crap. |
| 01:19.38 | earend1 | ;> |
| 01:19.51 | SerajewelKS | a turing machine can do anything. the trick is someone has to write the program. |
| 01:19.59 | earend1 | yep. |
| 01:20.05 | earend1 | sounds like call. |
| 01:20.07 | earend1 | a |
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| 01:20.20 | earend1 | the world is waiting earend1 |
| 01:20.37 | earend1 | time to make computing sexy again. |
| 01:20.45 | trek00 | :) |
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| 01:21.47 | SerajewelKS | the thing you have to remember about LVM snapshots is that they fail if their COW pool fills up and another COW is triggered. so you have to monitor the COW pool free space. or just make sure you don't keep them around longer than necessary. |
| 01:21.52 | trek00 | earend1: with the grub command line you can do this and even more, but there is no gui for that |
| 01:21.53 | SerajewelKS | a snapshot failing will NOT affect the origin volume |
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| 01:24.07 | jmcnaught | I used to use LVM snapshots for libvirt VMs. I would make a snapshot off of a master volume, use virt-sysprep from libguestfs-tools to change /etc/hostname etc in the snapshot, and have virt-install create the libvirt domain and start it |
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| 01:27.08 | wh0ami | how would i know if /dev/sda1 is readonly |
| 01:27.37 | wh0ami | i tried to remount it earlier as rw but im not sure if i put it back correctly |
| 01:27.45 | karlpinc | wh0ami: findmnt /dev/sda1 |
| 01:27.58 | annadane | i was going to suggest mount | grep sda :P |
| 01:28.03 | annadane | TIL findmnt |
| 01:28.05 | karlpinc | wh0ami: Look for the "rw" in the OPTIONS column |
| 01:28.16 | wh0ami | i was using a live cd |
| 01:28.49 | wh0ami | i think i only did: "mount -o remount" |
| 01:29.04 | wh0ami | it didnt give me an output so i thought i did it right |
| 01:29.27 | wh0ami | mount -o remount /dev/sda1 |
| 01:29.34 | karlpinc | wh0ami: It succeeded. Whether you asked it to do the right things is another question. |
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| 01:30.05 | karlpinc | wh0ami: I don't know offhand whether the current mount options are preserved or remount resets to the defaults. |
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| 01:30.22 | wh0ami | ill give it a check ill be back |
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| 01:31.29 | karlpinc | wh0ami: Thing about remount is that it mounts _over_ what's already mounted. So unmounting will revert to the old mount options (unless you mounted it somewhere else). At least that's my understanding. |
| 01:31.57 | trek00 | mount -o remount does nothing |
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| 01:32.54 | trek00 | karlpinc: remount does not mount over again the same mount point, it simply change the mount options for an already mounted fs |
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| 01:33.14 | karlpinc | trek00: Nothing, or remounts on top of what's there with the same mount options? (Nothing would make sense, but....) |
| 01:33.41 | karlpinc | trek00: Am I thinking of a bind mount? |
| 01:33.47 | wh0ami | lol it says: / /dev/sda1 rw,noatime |
| 01:33.50 | trek00 | mount -o remount does nothing, you should specify the options you want change, like mount -o remount,rw |
| 01:33.59 | wh0ami | i messed it up huh |
| 01:34.18 | wh0ami | trek, i want it back read-only |
| 01:34.34 | karlpinc | wh0ami: -o remount,ro |
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| 01:35.25 | wh0ami | whats the risk of having it rw for like a day? |
| 01:35.39 | trek00 | karlpinc: bind mount will duplicate a directory tree to another directory, but if you mount something to mnt and then mount someotherthing to mnt, in this case you are mounting over what's already mounted and when you umount the first time, you'll return to the first mount |
| 01:35.42 | wh0ami | my net is pretty hardened |
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| 01:39.44 | trek00 | wh0ami: it depends by what you need to avoid, but usually mounting read-only will prevents only a small fraction of security threats |
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| 01:41.28 | wh0ami | i did "mount -o remount,rw /dev/sda1" because i locked myself out and i just want it reversed if possible |
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| 01:42.15 | wh0ami | does that give / rw including subfolders? |
| 01:42.34 | wh0ami | i tried reading its man but im new to this stuff |
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| 01:43.39 | trek00 | wh0ami: mounting read-only a partition, you cant write anything, mounting read-write you can write everywhere, but file permissions are always checked |
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| 01:44.19 | karlpinc | wh0ami: The whole filesystem is what's mounted. If you want finer control you use chmod (or chown) or put users in groups or use ACLs or... |
| 01:44.42 | trek00 | wh0ami: if you mount read-only all the system, you will don't get logs and many things will not properly run |
| 01:44.54 | wh0ami | trek, why did someone give me an advice to rw the whole / |
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| 01:44.59 | karlpinc | And you will have less security. |
| 01:45.12 | karlpinc | wh0ami: Becuase you're getting advice from random strangers? |
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| 01:45.31 | karlpinc | wh0ami: The question is, what other filesystems are mounted? |
| 01:45.31 | wh0ami | i asked it here |
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| 01:45.46 | karlpinc | wh0ami: Maybe you have multiple partitions? |
| 01:45.57 | trek00 | wh0ami: if you were locked out, may be it needs to write something before you get allowed to login and if it is read-only it can't write |
| 01:46.27 | wh0ami | i was using a live cd |
| 01:46.46 | trek00 | livecd mounted read-write? |
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| 02:11.49 | TransGression | ah |
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| 02:12.54 | TransGression | https://www.youporn.com/watch/13068591/shemale-selfsucks-and-cums-in-mouth/?t=506 |
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| 02:17.37 | ksk | hola. I am trying to setp an unprivileged lxc container and give it access to certain devices; upon starting I get the following error: "cgroups/cgfsng.c: cg_legacy_set_data: 2191 Failed to setup limits for the "devices" controller. The controller seems to be unused by "cgfsng" cgroup driver or not enabled on the cgroup hierarchy" - any Idea on that? I was not really able to find anything related to the |
| 02:17.43 | ksk | "cgfsng" cgroup controller, really.. |
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| 02:20.26 | TransGression | do you boys like my video? |
| 02:20.38 | ksk | !ops TransGression |
| 02:20.39 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: ksk complains about a problem (see above) |
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| 02:24.57 | trek00 | ksk: do you have the /sys/fs/cgroup tree? |
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| 02:25.49 | ksk | yes, I do. It does work without me trying to share the device (And lxc-checkconfig is very green-ish) |
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| 02:26.44 | trek00 | ksk: do you have cgroup fs or cgroup2? |
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| 02:29.57 | ksk | eh, both? not sure... |
| 02:30.13 | ksk | lxc-checkconfig output is here: http://paste.debian.net/1094300/ |
| 02:30.21 | trek00 | ksk: quick check: it exist /sys/fs/cgroup/devices? |
| 02:30.36 | trek00 | ksk: yes it exist |
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| 02:30.40 | ksk | yes, it exists. |
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| 02:36.19 | trek00 | ksk: may be this can help you? https://github.com/lxc/lxc/issues/2268 |
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| 02:38.20 | ksk | I did check that beforehand, it seems not^ |
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| 02:38.49 | ksk | I am running an unpriviledged container in contrast to the guy in the issue |
| 02:39.43 | pennTeller | Hi guys, I installed a minimal debian on a laptop. How would one go about turning such system into a "full" desktop distro? |
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| 02:41.31 | ksk | ah, I think I am getting it a little bit now. many thanks for your time trek00! |
| 02:41.41 | trek00 | ksk: the fourth comment is not so nice https://discuss.linuxcontainers.org/t/lxc-cannot-start-mx-linux/4681 |
| 02:41.47 | ksk | pennTeller: "apt install $desktop-of-choice" |
| 02:42.16 | trek00 | ksk: what it was? |
| 02:42.37 | ksk | I did not fix it (yet), but I think I do understand what brauner says in the linked issue.. |
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| 02:42.52 | trek00 | good :) |
| 02:44.09 | ksk | mhhm, nevermind, I have already loaded the devices cgroup to my best knowledge.. |
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| 02:46.18 | ksk | I asked over at #lxcontainers, maybe they have an Idea |
| 02:46.28 | ksk | not too active that channel though.. |
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| 02:46.29 | trek00 | ksk: may be the other solution fit better? empty setting lxc.cgroup.devices.deny |
| 02:46.42 | pennTeller | ksk thanks lol |
| 02:47.15 | jmcnaught | pennTeller: you can run tasksel as root to get the same menu for desktop environments that is used in the installer |
| 02:47.53 | trek00 | ksk: in fact you need to access devices, but lxc reset cgroup device to prevents exactly this |
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| 02:51.25 | ksk | trek00: the container starts if I just set the empty deny - I then can still not use glxinfo though.. |
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| 03:24.01 | kreyren | how do i update alternatives for init? |
| 03:24.16 | kreyren | expecting /sbin/init which is not present and i'm not sure if making symlink is good idea |
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| 03:26.10 | trek00 | kreyren: there is no update-alternatives for init, you should just install the init you like more |
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| 03:26.35 | kreyren | trek00: did that already, but it doesn't make /sbin/init and boot fails due to that |
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| 03:27.17 | trek00 | kreyren: what init you installed? |
| 03:27.22 | kreyren | Openrc |
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| 03:27.52 | kreyren | + devuan sources for dependencies to work around instability issue |
| 03:28.03 | kreyren | with sanitized pinning |
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| 03:29.23 | trek00 | kreyren: i don't know openrc, but it seems to me odd to manually make a symlink, anyway openrc suggest installing sysvint-core, may be it is the intended way to start it on debian? |
| 03:29.42 | kreyren | checking |
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| 03:31.24 | trek00 | kreyren: anyway with sysvinit i haven't made anything of special to make it running |
| 03:31.48 | kreyren | sysvinit is missing on my system that's probably it |
| 03:32.22 | kreyren | yep it made /sbin/init Thanks!! |
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| 03:32.39 | kreyren | rebooting |
| 03:32.40 | trek00 | kreyren: hope this will start openrc |
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| 04:01.15 | ryouma | https://termbin.com/i4c8 |
| 04:01.29 | ryouma | why is my kernel /more advanced/ than the latest available? |
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| 04:02.22 | ryouma | the above is apt-cache policy; apt-forktracer also pegs it |
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| 04:13.51 | Belua | Hello |
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| 04:15.12 | klys | hi |
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| 04:37.24 | trek00 | ryouma: package name (linux-image-4.9.0-8-amd64) don't get renamed even if it contains linux 4.9.144 |
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| 04:38.08 | ryouma | trek00: thanks for your answer, but i don't understand |
| 04:39.12 | ryouma | you're saying package contents changed but package name did not and therefore all of the apt tools get misled and tell me the package is installed and more recent than what is available?\ |
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| 04:44.38 | trek00 | ryouma: not sorry, i was confused |
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| 04:46.49 | trek00 | ryouma: latest available should be linux-image-4.9.0-9-amd64 |
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| 04:49.25 | wh0ami | whats the permission of unmodified /etc/shadow? |
| 04:49.37 | wh0ami | and /etc/passwd? |
| 04:49.42 | klys | 600 |
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| 04:50.31 | wh0ami | its the same for passwd? |
| 04:50.41 | klys | actually 640 and 644 for passwd |
| 04:51.00 | klys | the owners are root:shadow |
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| 04:51.40 | klys | and root:root for passwd |
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| 04:52.23 | wh0ami | so -rw-r---- for shadow and -rw-r---- for passwd? |
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| 04:52.46 | klys | passwd: rw-r--r-- root:root |
| 04:53.03 | wh0ami | -rw-r--r-- * |
| 04:53.12 | klys | yes |
| 04:53.45 | wh0ami | how about / if you dont mind me asking? |
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| 04:54.36 | klys | drwxr-xr-x root:root / |
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| 04:56.04 | wh0ami | i performed a "mount -o remount,rw /" to edit shadow because i got locked out, thats what i was told earlier |
| 04:56.15 | wh0ami | but i want to reverse it |
| 04:56.22 | klys | were you root |
| 04:56.29 | klys | oh |
| 04:56.43 | klys | mount -o remount,ro / |
| 04:57.10 | wh0ami | i disabled root and normal user passwords because i enabled keys authentication |
| 04:57.25 | wh0ami | is that safe to do? |
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| 04:57.46 | wh0ami | one guy was telling me that it might cause errors if its read only |
| 04:57.48 | klys | make sure to sync before rebooting. i don't know |
| 04:58.06 | wh0ami | i didnt check the permission before |
| 04:58.23 | trek00 | ryouma: it contains linux 4.9.168, more recent than what it is installed (4.9.144) |
| 04:58.39 | wh0ami | what do you mean sync? |
| 04:58.54 | klys | /bin/sync |
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| 05:00.52 | wh0ami | after changing from from ro to rw or rw to ro? |
| 05:01.15 | trek00 | klys: why to remount read only? |
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| 05:02.59 | klys | trek00, that finalizes changes to the partition. he may reboot without scripts. |
| 05:03.41 | klys | wh0ami, sync simply writes back the cache to disk. |
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| 05:04.06 | wh0ami | ah i see |
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| 05:06.33 | wh0ami | ill brb |
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| 05:12.35 | ryouma | trek00: i am using stretch |
| 05:13.39 | ryouma | i don't understqand the apt-cache policy output |
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| 05:19.12 | trek00 | ryouma: it's for stretch https://packages.debian.org/stretch/linux-image-4.9.0-9-amd64 |
| 05:21.41 | trek00 | ryouma: apt-cache policy says: for the package named linux-image-4.9.0-8-amd64 you have installed version 4.9.144-3.1, which is the best candidate for that package |
| 05:22.22 | trek00 | ryouma: 4.9.144 comes from stretch-updates, 4.9.110 from security |
| 05:22.52 | trek00 | ryouma: but if you install package named linux-image-4.9.0-9-amd64, you will get installed 4.9.168 |
| 05:23.22 | trek00 | ryouma: hope this clarified more |
| 05:24.58 | ryouma | a little. but why would stretch-updates update the kernel? i thought it was for time zone information or whatever? also i do not have .168. and it says 144 is not from any repo. |
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| 05:28.55 | trek00 | ryouma: be aware of the package name change from linux-image-4.9.0-8-amd64 to linux-image-4.9.0-9-amd64 |
| 05:29.56 | trek00 | ryouma: stretch-updates will install the any update proposed before the next point release |
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| 05:31.45 | trek00 | ryouma: must go now, bye! |
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| 05:31.53 | ryouma | thank you |
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| 05:32.28 | ryouma | i don't really get it but i think i found an anomaly which is that i was looking at an older package. and forktracer found that. |
| 05:32.37 | ryouma | which might be ther eaosn for this |
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