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| 00:18.36 | Oksana | My /etc/hosts contains 127.0.0.1 localhost \n 127.0.1.1 myhostname.home myhostname . What does it mean? |
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| 00:19.32 | hop | Oksana: that localhost points to 127.0.0.1 and myhostname / myhostname.home point to 127.0.1.1? |
| 00:20.08 | Oksana | hop: What is 127.0.1.1 ? |
| 00:20.25 | hop | Oksana: an ip address? |
| 00:20.30 | hop | ok, ok, for real |
| 00:20.36 | Oksana | Should I just have one line instead such as 127.0.0.1 localhost myhostname |
| 00:20.42 | hop | it's a local loopback address, just like 127.0.0.1 |
| 00:21.01 | hop | you will notice that 127.0.0.1 is not the same as 127.0.1.1 |
| 00:21.14 | hop | so, one line is right out |
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| 00:21.46 | hop | do you have a network on that machine? |
| 00:22.09 | Oksana | I have heard about 127.0.0.1 as local loopback address before. Does it function any different from 127.0.1.1? |
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| 00:22.21 | hop | all roads lead to rome⦠|
| 00:22.29 | hop | do you have network on that machine? |
| 00:22.42 | Oksana | hop: Yes, Ethernet. Does presence or absence of network affect existence of 127.0.1.1? |
| 00:23.16 | hop | Oksana: you should replace that ip with your real ip |
| 00:23.38 | Oksana | hop: What is my real IP, and how it is different from 127.0.0.1? |
| 00:24.06 | hop | i don't know what your real ip is. the ip that your box is reachable under from the network |
| 00:24.41 | hop | it is different from 127.0.0.1 in that the latter is the address of the local loopback device. not very useful for communicating with other machines |
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| 00:25.08 | hop | 127.0.1.1 is just a crutch for when the real ip is not known. some software has issues if it can't resolve the local hostname |
| 00:25.09 | Oksana | What's interesting, ping resolves localhost as ::1, not as 127.0.0.1 |
| 00:25.22 | hop | yeah, well, welcome to the future |
| 00:25.33 | Oksana | IPv6? |
| 00:25.47 | hop | hm? |
| 00:26.01 | hop | i'm good, thanks |
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| 00:26.23 | Oksana | Why ::1, and not ordinary A.B.C.D? |
| 00:26.32 | hop | ::1 is just as ordinary |
| 00:26.37 | hop | yes, it is ipv6 |
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| 00:29.50 | Oksana | I am annoyed because I cannot seem to reproduce yesterday issue with "Cannot connect to Internet, sudo stuck without asking for password, cannot hibernate, cannot even shutdown properly" |
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| 00:30.11 | hop | sounds like more than one issue |
| 00:30.27 | hop | also, be glad, move on? |
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| 00:33.55 | Oksana | hop: Alright, just, wish I knew what is behind it. Because right now, I am still worried that it will strike when I least expect it. |
| 00:34.11 | s7r | where is the best place to seek for a Debian package maintainer? |
| 00:35.02 | Oksana | s7r: 'apt-cache show packagename | grep Maintainer' |
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| 00:35.31 | Oksana | s7r: or https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages#search_packages |
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| 00:35.57 | s7r | Oksana: I know who the maintainer is for the package i'm interested in. except it's not maintained any more and i'd like to sponsor someone to take over |
| 00:36.15 | s7r | Oksana: i mean place to seek new maintainers to take over orphaned packages |
| 00:36.29 | s7r | sorry for not asking clear from the first place |
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| 00:36.48 | Oksana | s7r: Ah, that's... no idea. I have done a little Debian packaging myself, years ago, but it was more once-off packaging, not maintaining for decades. |
| 00:36.49 | Unit193 | Well, usually if it sparks someones interest, they'll look into it. |
| 00:37.33 | s7r | it hasn't so far |
| 00:37.39 | Unit193 | What package? |
| 00:37.44 | s7r | I wanted to somehow incentive that |
| 00:37.55 | s7r | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/electrum |
| 00:38.13 | s7r | the version here is basically useless, it's not working at all. and it has some dependencies that have to pass through NEW |
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| 00:44.26 | Oksana | What kind of excuse is "98 days old (5 needed)"? Introducing new bugs is a valid concern. |
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| 00:48.08 | hop | Oksana: what do you mean? strike who strike what? |
| 00:48.18 | hop | Oksana: have you put your ip into hosts? |
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| 00:49.56 | Oksana | hop: How would I know my IP? Is it static or dynamic? What happens with IP when I switch between Ethernet and WiFi? |
| 00:50.35 | Oksana | doesn't remember where that sort of configuration is; anyway, installation of libnss-myhostname would hopefully resolve all of this |
| 00:50.39 | mason | Oksana: these are all local environmental questions. Typically your wifi and wired NICs will have different MAC addresses and will appear as different systems to your DHCP server. |
| 00:50.51 | mason | Oksana: I may have missed some detail that explains more, of course. |
| 00:51.04 | jak2000 | #apt install sudo E: unable to locate package sudo |
| 00:51.06 | jak2000 | ahi? |
| 00:51.10 | jak2000 | *why? |
| 00:51.13 | s7r | Oksana: don't know. the 3.3.2 is not working anyway in the wild. 3.3.8 is needed but 3.3.8 introduces some new dependencies, some which are not in Debian at all yet, so they need to pass through NEW |
| 00:51.22 | hop | Oksana: is this a laptop? |
| 00:51.36 | hop | Oksana: like _actually_ a machine that will change networks? |
| 00:51.40 | s7r | Unit193: if you have an idea, lemme know by private message any time. gonna get some sleep now, thank you! |
| 00:52.07 | Oksana | hop: Yes, a laptop. |
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| 00:52.28 | Bushmills | jak2000: because of a problem, or a mistake |
| 00:52.43 | Unit193 | s7r: Not really, but if it's an IRC channel then it's on OFTC. I doubt that'd be the most useful though. I remained silent as I didn't exactly have any ideas. Perhaps try to find out if there's a bitcoin team in Debian. |
| 00:52.50 | hop | Oksana: then make sure dns works properly and ignore hosts |
| 00:52.58 | mason | jak2000: apt update first, at a guess |
| 00:53.05 | s7r | oki Unit193 , ack! thank you! |
| 00:53.18 | hop | Oksana: and un-bunch your knickers. what's the worst that could happen? |
| 00:54.34 | jak2000 | mason: https://pasteboard.co/IsqxEz8.png can you see? i cant paste text |
| 00:55.19 | Bushmills | "alow" ... |
| 00:55.39 | Oksana | So, regarding GUI bitcoin client, there are only electrum and bitcoin-qt . And electrum is probably easier to use, but its maintenance is troublesome. |
| 00:55.41 | mason | jak2000: That seems like an awfully short /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 00:56.33 | dvs | jak2000, yeah, you only have the security repo in your sources. |
| 00:56.38 | mason | jak2000: https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList |
| 00:56.47 | mason | jak2000: That has an example Buster sources list set. |
| 00:56.51 | Oksana | hop: Go to do something somewhere else (be it a different Ethernet or a different WiFi), my laptop doesn't connect to network, doesn't even see that a network is there, sudo gets stuck, hibernate and shutdown do not work, I spend hours just trying to shut it down without shattering the file system. |
| 00:57.23 | jak2000 | mason: https://pasteboard.co/IsqyNHC.png |
| 00:57.24 | mason | jak2000: Toss the entries in they give as an example for 10/Buster, apt update, then you should be able to install things. |
| 00:58.15 | mason | jak2000: Yeah, after looking at that, my advice stands. :) |
| 00:58.17 | dvs | jak2000, like I said, you only have the security repo |
| 01:00.24 | jak2000 | can i write 6 lines? |
| 01:00.26 | jak2000 | these: |
| 01:00.49 | mason | jak2000: bpaste.net is good for pasting text |
| 01:00.50 | jak2000 | https://pasteboard.co/IsqAcAK.png |
| 01:01.02 | jak2000 | i installed proxmos.. and cant copy text... |
| 01:01.42 | mason | jak2000: That looks good at a glance. |
| 01:01.56 | jak2000 | this helped me: https://paste.debian.net/1095536/ ? |
| 01:02.05 | hop | Oksana: those problems don't come from a wrong hostname resolution |
| 01:02.36 | Oksana | hop: I have heard that sudo may be stuck before asking for password... because of absence of network? |
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| 01:03.27 | hop | Oksana: hostname resolution via /etc/hosts does not require or in anyway influence the existence or absence of a network |
| 01:04.03 | jak2000 | thanks |
| 01:04.05 | jak2000 | testing |
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| 01:05.40 | Oksana | Going by https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=921688 , it would be nice to remove electrum prior to 3.3 from Debian repositories altogether |
| 01:05.41 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/921688 in electrum (forwarded, upstream, fixed-upstream, security): «Electrum vulnerable to malware»; severity: critical; opened: 2019-02-07; last modified: 2019-07-20. |
| 01:06.10 | mason | Woot, my first upgrade into buster, and it worked unproblematically. |
| 01:06.48 | mason | AppArmor by default! Hadn't realized that was there. |
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| 01:08.26 | Oksana | But then, apparently, somebody else (not the maintainer) has made sure that 3.2.3 in Debian repositories prints out a warning about the bug and then closes promptly. |
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| 01:18.10 | SerajewelKS | is it advisable to use flash drives for swap? are they likely to be faster than an HDD? |
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| 01:19.24 | jak2000 | anyone used virtio drivers? |
| 01:19.33 | jak2000 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 01:21.18 | SerajewelKS | my main concern about using flash drives for swap is that they'll probably fail much sooner than the HDDS |
| 01:21.46 | SerajewelKS | and when that happens the system will basically die -- is mitigating that with raid1 a feasible solution or will the dual writes make the system slower |
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| 01:27.37 | Bushmills | while I have swap on Flash (SSD), I've also brought down swappiness to be easy on the drive |
| 01:27.41 | mason | jak2000: virtio tends to Just Work |
| 01:28.09 | mason | jak2000: If you're talking about a guest, that is. If you're talking about hosting things using ProxMox, I have no experience there. |
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| 01:32.23 | Oksana | Why is it said that SSD is going to be worn down quickly by swap? Why does swap then exist, instead of just storing the same information in RAM instead? |
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| 01:32.48 | Bushmills | I should be more concerned about log files, and should log them to a remote system |
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| 01:33.06 | dvs | Oksana, swap is the overflow for RAM. |
| 01:33.18 | mason | Oksana: Swap is many decades older than SSD. Not all the world is an SSD. Modern enterprise SSD tends to be reliable enough to not be a source of worry. |
| 01:34.16 | mason | Oksana: If you have insufficient RAM and swap often this will naturally be more wear and tear on any device, SSD included. SSDs tend to have a limited number of writes before they pick a failure mode. |
| 01:36.16 | SerajewelKS | TBH i should just get another 4GB RAM for this server |
| 01:36.25 | Oksana | mason: I am glad to see that I currently have 0K Swap. But then, uptime is only 1h 45 min. |
| 01:37.02 | mason | Oksana: You should generally be able to estimate RAM usage for a server. For a laptop, it's probably going to vary wildly, especially if you use a web browser. In general, don't worry about it. |
| 01:37.02 | Oksana | has upgraded the laptop to max RAM - 8GB - when replacing hard drive with SSD, and is glad to hear one more reason as to why it was wise to do so. |
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| 01:37.43 | Oksana | mason: I would rather not have SSD fail suddenly on me. Are there any early warning signs of impeding failure? |
| 01:38.02 | dvs | heh |
| 01:38.08 | SerajewelKS | Oksana: SMART status |
| 01:38.32 | SerajewelKS | on debian, smartmontools will provide a SMART-monitoring daemon, IIRC |
| 01:38.43 | SerajewelKS | also, regular backups are a good idea for any scenario |
| 01:39.22 | mason | Oksana: In addition to smartmontools, a quick search shows smart-notifier. Never used it, but it's there. |
| 01:39.26 | Oksana | dislikes back-ups strongly |
| 01:39.32 | mason | I hate my data too. |
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| 01:40.00 | SerajewelKS | Oksana: if you don't like backups then you're doing them wrong |
| 01:40.10 | Bushmills | who doesn't keep backups has no data worth to keep |
| 01:41.05 | Bushmills | backups happening network wide fully automatic and unattended here |
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| 01:41.20 | SerajewelKS | same, at least on anything that matters |
| 01:41.21 | Oksana | SerajewelKS: If back-ups could be done on-the-fly, then it would be easy. But to me, a back-up sounds like: "Undig this back-up thing from where I have buried it under papers, and leave laptop switched on all night copying this and that (preferably everything) to back-up" |
| 01:41.38 | SerajewelKS | Oksana: if you use a retarded backup tool then sure |
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| 01:42.26 | Bushmills | well, they can :) consider something like a replication server between network hosts and backup system (commonly NAS based) |
| 01:42.29 | SerajewelKS | Oksana: my personal favorite is restic, which can use many different storage backends (AWS S3, B2, local directory, sftp, etc.) and deduplicates (so only what changed gets backed up) |
| 01:42.49 | SerajewelKS | Oksana: i have it automated on both my windows and linux machines. they take backups every night automatically. |
| 01:43.42 | Bushmills | replication server available all the time, for convinience of any system. backup only needs to come on once every so often to incrementally backup the replication server |
| 01:43.47 | Oksana | SerajewelKS: I have a crazy amount of hard drives located in random places around the house. Barely remember which one is which. Doesn't help that there are four personal laptops, aka one per each person in the family - it means that there are at least four hard drives in free motion around the house. |
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| 01:44.32 | Oksana | SerajewelKS: Take back-ups to where? And doesn't back-up thingie get worn out from nightly back-ups? |
| 01:44.54 | Oksana | Probably much less worn out than laptop itself from being used all day long. |
| 01:49.29 | SerajewelKS | Oksana: if you use a cloud storage backend like S3 or B2 then you're just paying monthly per GB of storage |
| 01:50.01 | SerajewelKS | Oksana: i have a tiered approach. i have two 2TB disks that are mirrored (creating one redundant 2TB disk) and things backup to that. then that disk is synced to B2. |
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| 01:51.32 | SerajewelKS | Oksana: the 2TB disks are my first line of defense. they protect me from windows malware, human error, etc. the cloud storage is for a catastrophe, such as a house fire or both backup disks failing at the same time. |
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| 01:58.37 | Oksana | SerajewelKS: SSD inside my laptop is fairly large, even though Linux partition on it is fairly small... 120GB+222GB attempt to rescue from failed hard drive (C: and D: Windows XP partitions, NTFS), 258GB of current Linux partitions, 142GB of old Linux partition from failed hard drive, and 259GB free space (aka would be just enough to back up my current Linux to, if it made any sense to back up from one partition of SSD to another parti |
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| 01:59.01 | Oksana | Aka 1TB SSD total, apparently. |
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| 02:00.17 | SerajewelKS | i mean you can pick and choose what you back up |
| 02:00.27 | SerajewelKS | but experience has taught me that if you don't back up your data, then it has no value |
| 02:00.43 | SerajewelKS | it's like depositing your money in a bank that doesn't have insurance |
| 02:01.36 | Bushmills | or riding motorbike in swimming trunks |
| 02:03.22 | SerajewelKS | yep |
| 02:03.32 | SerajewelKS | with hard disk failure it's when, not if |
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| 02:04.14 | SerajewelKS | Oksana: if these external drives rarely (or never) leave the house then that sounds more like you need a NAS, which would be much easier to consistently back up than a collection of external disks |
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| 03:08.26 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 03:10.45 | SerajewelKS | galaxie: "modprobe ecryptfs" works here on 4.9.0 |
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| 03:12.43 | SerajewelKS | galaxie: are you sure you're using a kernel provided by debian, and not some other distro or a kernel built from source yourself? |
| 03:12.54 | annadane | 4.4 was never a kernel for stretch |
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| 03:13.02 | annadane | it's an LTS branch |
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| 03:15.07 | ZaZaGX | congrats to Debian! it moved up to #5 spot behind Ubuntu on distrowatch |
| 03:16.00 | funny | how about mx linux |
| 03:16.03 | annadane | distrowatch is purely based on page views |
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| 03:16.20 | ninja | annadane: on page views? |
| 03:16.28 | SerajewelKS | you can't accurately measure market share of something that is free and doesn't phone home about usage |
| 03:16.41 | annadane | the distro "ranking" is based on how many hits the page gets on distrowatch |
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| 03:16.47 | ninja | I think only distro maintainers can keep a record how much users they have. |
| 03:17.15 | SerajewelKS | ninja: and even then, only if they put something in the base install that regularly pings them |
| 03:17.35 | SerajewelKS | e.g. popcon on debian, but not everyone opts in to that |
| 03:17.51 | annadane | i just press no... i probably should press yes but *shrug* |
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| 03:17.57 | swamprock | oops |
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| 03:18.46 | annadane | pretty sure debian has a lot fewer bugs than ubuntu so who cares about distrowatch ranking... |
| 03:18.48 | ninja | I mostly deselect all things in installation only ssh server I select and basic utilities. |
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| 03:19.02 | SerajewelKS | popcon is a separate question at the end of the install |
| 03:19.15 | SerajewelKS | but yeh, you can opt out. you can even install debian without any of the ISOs. |
| 03:19.16 | ninja | even from a netinstall iso which is minimalistic install in debian |
| 03:19.35 | SerajewelKS | so even ISO download counts aren't accurate. and many people probably download once and then install to many machines. |
| 03:19.36 | Josh` | Upgraded to Debian 10 from Debian 9.9. zabbix-agent is requiring libcurl4, which appears to be a valid package on packages.debian.org, but apt is saying 'libcurl4' has no installation candidate. |
| 03:20.05 | SerajewelKS | !bat |
| 03:20.05 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 03:20.07 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: ^ |
| 03:20.16 | ninja | I just enabled buster from testing and ran update. it says, your system is upgraded already :) |
| 03:20.29 | ninja | Is it normal? |
| 03:20.48 | SerajewelKS | ninja: if you had testing in there then surprise, you went past buster |
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| 03:21.19 | ninja | SerajewelKS: I just wanna check differences. |
| 03:21.25 | ninja | else I'm good at testing. |
| 03:21.33 | SerajewelKS | ninja: you are running bullseye now |
| 03:21.46 | SerajewelKS | ninja: the differences is that you're running newer stuff than in buster, so of course nothing can be upgraded :P |
| 03:21.47 | ninja | yeah bullseye is release name |
| 03:22.26 | ninja | so apt won't downgrade the packages to buster level this way? |
| 03:22.42 | SerajewelKS | downgrading packages is not officially supported |
| 03:22.50 | ninja | Just asking. |
| 03:22.51 | SerajewelKS | so no, apt isn't going to do something that isn't supported unless you force it to |
| 03:23.02 | SerajewelKS | !downgrade |
| 03:23.02 | dpkg | Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>. |
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| 03:23.45 | swamprock | Testing the newest kernel from bullseye/sid myself |
| 03:23.48 | ninja | !mirrors |
| 03:23.48 | dpkg | The best mirror for most users is <deb.debian.org>; other mirrors are listed at http://www.debian.org/mirror/list and ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/README.mirrors.txt and http://deb.li/map ; ask me about <apt-spy>, <netselect-apt>, <httpredir.debian.org>, <debian mirror checker>. To make a mirror, see http://www.debian.org/mirrors/ ; see also <debmirror>, <apt-mirror>, <ftpsync>, <mirror size>. #debian-mirrors on irc.oftc.net. |
| 03:23.51 | Josh` | Required info from dpkg: http://paste.debian.net/1095552/ |
| 03:24.16 | ninja | Is deb.debian.org really faster than other mirrors? |
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| 03:24.41 | ninja | swamprock: which version of kernel you have? |
| 03:25.10 | annadane | deb.debian.org is a redirector |
| 03:25.23 | annadane | so in theory "yes except one which is the one it points to" |
| 03:25.38 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: you aren't running buster |
| 03:25.44 | swamprock | ninja: it's the 5.x series. I'll have to boot my iBook to see what the actual version is (I'm running Debian Ports/sid on PowerPC 32-bit) |
| 03:25.52 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: based on this output you're trying to install the buster zabbix-agent on stretch |
| 03:26.12 | ninja | In bullseyes I have 4.19 yet |
| 03:26.16 | Josh` | SerajewelKS, Shit, you're right. I've apparently not upgraded this host yet. |
| 03:26.36 | swamprock | ninja: I'm booting it now |
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| 03:27.00 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: :) |
| 03:27.23 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: also, using ubuntu PPAs on debian is strongly discouraged |
| 03:27.25 | SerajewelKS | !ppa |
| 03:27.25 | dpkg | [ppa] Personal Package Archive (see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas or <launchpad>). PPAs are either: (a) an easy way to grab packages based on nightly-builds/VCS snapshots or (b) an easy way for any idiot to publish a package of extremely poor quality (remember, you will run the maintainer scripts as root during install!). Choose your repos wisely. No equivalent exists for Debian yet. Ask me about <why not use a ppa>. |
| 03:27.39 | SerajewelKS | !why not use a ppa |
| 03:27.39 | dpkg | PPAs (Ubuntu's Personal Package Archives, see <PPA>) are not built against Debian releases, they are built against Ubuntu releases. This makes using packages from them on a Debian box highly unlikely to work out well. Ask me about <ssb> <package recompile> <bobbitt>. |
| 03:27.50 | ninja | I used 5.x when I was on source base distro. Yesterday I installed a 5.x but came back to stock one. |
| 03:28.20 | swamprock | ninja: 5.2.7-1 (2019-08-07) |
| 03:28.42 | ninja | annadane: deb.debian.org redirects where? |
| 03:28.43 | swamprock | ninja: er... 5.2.0-2 |
| 03:28.57 | swamprock | looked at the wrong line |
| 03:29.02 | ninja | yeah I had it yesterday |
| 03:29.06 | annadane | ninja, to... the fastest mirror, don't know if they do it by ping or physical location |
| 03:29.32 | ZaZaGX | i see two different numbers for the buster kernel. which is which? |
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| 03:29.39 | ninja | annadane: for me its not faster than the one I had commented now. |
| 03:29.56 | ninja | ZaZaGX: apt install linux-image-amd64 |
| 03:30.10 | ZaZaGX | i was doing uname -a |
| 03:30.31 | ninja | do that after you reboot to new kernel. |
| 03:31.18 | Josh` | SerajewelKS, I'd *love* to remove the ppa reference in sources.list, if I could only find a deb src for Deluge that's actively maintained. |
| 03:31.31 | ZaZaGX | Linux debian 4.19.0-5-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.37-5+deb10u2 (2019-08-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
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| 03:32.04 | ZaZaGX | is the kernel 4.19.0-5? or 4.19.37-5? |
| 03:32.04 | SerajewelKS | ,v deluge |
| 03:32.05 | judd | Package: deluge on amd64 -- jessie: 1.3.10-3+deb8u1; jessie-security: 1.3.10-3+deb8u1; stretch: 1.3.13+git20161130.48cedf63-3; bullseye: 1.3.15-2; buster: 1.3.15-2; sid: 1.3.15-2 |
| 03:32.22 | ninja | mine buster is currently sleeping, on this machine I have Linux nix 4.19.0-5-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.37-6 (2019-07-18) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 03:32.45 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: it's literally in debian itself |
| 03:34.35 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: stretch is two patch releases behind and buster is up to date |
| 03:34.35 | ninja | annadane: Can't we use rsync with apt? |
| 03:34.35 | annadane | i have no idea |
| 03:34.35 | annadane | i don't know everything |
| 03:34.35 | annadane | in fact the list of things i do know is vanishingly small |
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| 03:34.35 | Josh` | ahh, I see that. At the time, the ubuntu ppa was the only repo that had 1.3.15, which was needed for pymedusa, IIRC. |
| 03:34.35 | ninja | I think we can. I once tried it on raspbian but they asked me to download some thing which I then tried but wasn't there, both in bullseye and raspbian buster |
| 03:34.35 | Josh` | That will be next, then |
| 03:34.35 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: ah. note that backporting from sid is usually an option |
| 03:34.35 | SerajewelKS | !ssb |
| 03:34.35 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
| 03:34.35 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: ^ |
| 03:34.35 | ninja | !rsync |
| 03:34.35 | dpkg | somebody said rsync was a superior network file synchronization program. Handy for downloading a Linux kernel, e.g. rsync -avz --partial rsync.kernel.org::pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.29.3.tar.bz2 /usr/local/home/peej/src/ Useful for backups as per http://www.mikerubel.org/computers/rsync_snapshots/ , see also <rsnapshot>. http://rsync.samba.org/ #rsync on irc.freenode.net. |
| 03:35.04 | Josh` | I havent quite 'figured out' backports yet. I'm a bit scared to go on my own. |
| 03:35.09 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: basically if all of the sid package's build-depends are satisfied by stable, you can get the source package from sid and build the binary package for stable. this allows you to get stuff from sid without creating frakendebian. |
| 03:35.36 | Josh` | so if that's all it takes, why would the package still be in sid? |
| 03:35.43 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: depending on the complexity of the source package and its dependencies, the experience can range from "wait... that's it? i'm done?" to "fuck, this is never gonna work" |
| 03:36.04 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: because there's a very narrow set of criteria for updating stuff in stable. stable means "doesn't change" not "doesn't crash." |
| 03:36.32 | ninja | https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/07/msg00462.html |
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| 03:36.47 | ninja | very old but lets see if its about apt or not |
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| 03:37.05 | SerajewelKS | basically security updates and critical fixes go into stable and that's it |
| 03:37.06 | Josh` | I do understand that topic - branches are more about version change control rather than code resiliency |
| 03:37.29 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: the idea in debian is that it's hard for a sysadmin to keep on top of his systems when the packages are constantly upgrading |
| 03:37.46 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: a known set of problems is easier to manage than a constantly-changing set of problems |
| 03:38.16 | Josh` | SerajewelKS, which is the exact reason I got away from using Gentoo. Well, that, and compile times. |
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| 03:38.34 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: if your goal is to have the latest toys, you can try backporting from sid. alternatively, a rolling release distro could be what you're after. |
| 03:38.56 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: but if you just need the occasional new thing that's not in stable, then backporting is usually pretty feasible |
| 03:39.09 | SerajewelKS | sometimes even just building from source and installing in /usr/local is the way to go |
| 03:39.20 | SerajewelKS | packages are nice but they're not the only option |
| 03:39.34 | Josh` | Not really interested in latest, but I do get the odd project that has this dependancy that will be alpha 3 months from now. |
| 03:39.52 | ninja | SerajewelKS: There is testing-security |
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| 03:40.12 | SerajewelKS | ninja: i'm not sure how that relates in the slightest to anything i said... |
| 03:41.41 | Josh` | SerajewelKS, Thanks for opening my eyes. I need to upgrade this host, but I'll wait until I am in a better cognitive state. :) Nice to know that all I need to do to get back on debian-vanilla is upgrade to buster. |
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| 03:43.24 | SerajewelKS | Josh`: np, good luck with the upgrade! |
| 03:43.32 | SerajewelKS | something always breaks... the question is how serious |
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| 03:43.53 | alkisg | ,v firefox-esr |
| 03:43.54 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch: 60.6.1esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 60.7.1esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 60.7.2esr-1; jessie-security: 60.8.0esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-security: 60.8.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster-proposed-updates: 60.8.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 60.8.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 60.8.0esr-1; sid: |
| 03:43.55 | judd | 60.8.0esr-1 |
| 03:44.19 | Josh` | Lately, my upgrades have been going smoothly. However, this host is the .. ahem.. "most complicated" setup I have. |
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| 03:44.41 | Resilience | i have this message error: "ssh: connect to host <IP> port 22: Connection refused", this hhappens while I am trying to connect with a SECOND connection, not the first one, is it the configuration of my ssh server? or is it the router of my hosting service? how can I know? |
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| 03:50.34 | _Random_ | needs some help on debian distro, my Nvidia have crashed im in my system via command line at root |
| 03:51.12 | _Random_ | how can I repair the os with nvidia or open source drivers |
| 03:52.45 | ninja | do I need bind9-host ? I use systemd-{networkd,resolvd} for network. |
| 03:53.47 | swamprock | _Random_: cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | less |
| 03:53.57 | swamprock | _Random_: and look for errors |
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| 03:58.23 | _Random_ | failed to start nvidia & UnloadeModule "nvidia" |
| 03:58.44 | fraktor | I'm trying to install Debian, and everything seems to work, but the disk is not bootable after installation. |
| 03:58.57 | _Random_ | unload submodule wfb & fb |
| 03:59.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1517] by debhelper |
| 03:59.12 | swamprock | ninja: systems handles your DNS server and lookup requests, so bind9-host isn't usually needed. I used to run across certain errors with bind9-host, as I had redundant DNS lookup scripts running for some weird reason. That was back when systems launched with Jessie |
| 03:59.20 | _Random_ | none have useable congfig |
| 03:59.36 | fraktor | I'm using the guided option to set up an efi partition and then resizing them to suit my needs. what else can I try? |
| 03:59.53 | swamprock | er... systemd |
| 04:00.27 | swamprock | I need to turn off autocorrect |
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| 04:00.49 | ninja | swamprock: purged |
| 04:00.50 | _Random_ | my gupu card is nvivia quadro k1200 |
| 04:01.16 | ninja | fraktor: You can try manual option there if you wanna resize. |
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| 04:01.29 | ninja | But I think you have to reboot now. |
| 04:01.35 | ninja | to get it working |
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| 04:01.45 | ninja | at least for me it happened. |
| 04:01.54 | fraktor | To clarify, I've done that. I've rebooted several times, and each time my disk has been unbootable. |
| 04:02.06 | ninja | or maybe execute a shell, and umount partitions |
| 04:02.26 | ninja | fraktor: Go with guided partitioning then. |
| 04:02.32 | ninja | You can resize later too. |
| 04:02.42 | fraktor | I did that. still unbootable. |
| 04:02.51 | swamprock | _Random_: Hold for a second. I'm checking something... |
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| 04:04.35 | swamprock | _Random_: apt policy xserver-xorg-video-nouveau and see if that's installed |
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| 04:07.10 | swamprock | _Random_: The nonfree firmware packages for AMD and Nvidia graphics cards have been split since Stretch, and I'm trying to find the Nvidia firmware package |
| 04:08.08 | swamprock | _Random_: I think firmware-linux-nonfree is what you'll need, but you'll have to enable nonfree in apt |
| 04:09.43 | swamprock | _Random_: apt edit-sources, choose your preferred editor (I use nano), then add contrib non-free to the end of your repos. Control X to exit, select yes, then apt update. |
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| 04:13.07 | swamprock | _Random_: Then apt install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau firmware-linux-nonfree then reboot |
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| 04:13.49 | swamprock | _Random_: If that fixes your problem, THEN try the nvidia drivers from the web |
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| 04:16.28 | swamprock | I need to read up on wayland. I know next to nothing about it |
| 04:16.35 | swamprock | I'm still in xorg land |
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| 04:20.55 | fraktor | Ninja: any other ideas? |
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| 04:21.32 | ninja | fraktor: sorry I was away, can I see what's your problem? |
| 04:22.58 | crestfallen | hello in xterm I have my cursor set to Ibeam, but it persists in block while in nvim editor. In my repl environment it is an Ibeam as expected. any clue? thanks |
| 04:23.17 | alkisg | !flash |
| 04:23.18 | dpkg | Flash is frequently used to deliver interactivity, audio and video through a web browser. Ask me about <gnash> and <lightspark> for free implementations, or <adobe flash> and <pepper flash> for non-free implementations. http://wiki.debian.org/Flash, or see nasty bug #841373. See also <flash stretch>. |
| 04:25.15 | fraktor | ninja: no boot disk is found after I reboot from the installation |
| 04:25.39 | ninja | fraktor: Did you install grub? |
| 04:25.57 | fraktor | Yes, I did |
| 04:26.13 | ninja | crestfallen: Try this xresource and see if it works. https://github.com/Awan/cfg.git |
| 04:26.41 | ninja | Don't you see grub screen? |
| 04:26.51 | crestfallen | thanks ninja will do. |
| 04:27.52 | ninja | crestfallen: You have to do like, `xrdb -merge My_Xresource_File` |
| 04:28.19 | fraktor | nope. just a message from my BIOS/UEFI loader. |
| 04:28.39 | ninja | what's that message? |
| 04:28.53 | crestfallen | ninja not sure what to do. can I pick out a set feature from the .vim or .vimrc files there? |
| 04:28.58 | ninja | I think you choose wrong option for grub while installing |
| 04:29.25 | ninja | crestfallen: There is also vimrc in dotfiles I mentioned earlier. |
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| 04:29.40 | fraktor | there were no options for grub; it just did the installation |
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| 04:29.56 | crestfallen | ok ninja the set feature I need will be obvious? |
| 04:30.04 | CaptainDusty | fraktor: The last step of install, asking where you want to install your boot loader...? What did you select? |
| 04:30.13 | ninja | fraktor: I don't use grub or any other boot managers, but I was installing debian in a friend machine a few days ago and I saw it was asking me to install it on a USB drive by default. Maybe you hit that option. |
| 04:30.33 | ninja | CaptainDusty: yeah that's it. |
| 04:30.36 | CaptainDusty | ^^ |
| 04:30.44 | CaptainDusty | As per ninja, the last step is, imho; stupid. |
| 04:30.52 | CaptainDusty | It used to be much clearer in previous versions. |
| 04:31.31 | ninja | yeah like most users are most likely gonna hit enter at that. |
| 04:31.45 | CaptainDusty | But the default option is skip or something. It's really really stupid. |
| 04:31.48 | swamprock | Is that from the graphical install? |
| 04:31.58 | CaptainDusty | I don't use the graphical installer. |
| 04:31.59 | ninja | yeah from graphical. |
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| 04:32.19 | CaptainDusty | Right. it must be in both, which is logical. |
| 04:32.19 | fraktor | it's a netinst image btw |
| 04:32.20 | swamprock | Capt- yeah same. I use the text installer |
| 04:32.28 | ninja | me too. It confuses me as I don't know many terms in gui :) |
| 04:32.40 | CaptainDusty | fraktor: netinst is the right choice ;) Esp if you have a local proxy setup. |
| 04:32.53 | ninja | same image I use but I use latest one from testing release. |
| 04:32.58 | CaptainDusty | fraktor: There's a step that asks about where you want the boot loader installed. Do you remember which you chose? |
| 04:33.10 | fraktor | it doesn't ask me that |
| 04:33.29 | CaptainDusty | fraktor: Ummmmmmm... hmmm. Are you sure? It's like.. one of the last options? |
| 04:33.32 | swamprock | You have to make sure you set that partition as /boot as well |
| 04:33.55 | ninja | fraktor: reboot to installation media, and go to install grub option. I think it will guide you if some options were necessary to proceed. |
| 04:34.19 | fraktor | I'm doing a reinstallation now |
| 04:34.28 | CaptainDusty | fraktor: niiice :D |
| 04:34.42 | fraktor | which partition must be bootable? the efi one? |
| 04:34.48 | swamprock | I'vemade the mistake of settingup a boot partiton, but not setting it to /boot |
| 04:34.50 | ninja | Like I said way earlier, if you choose guided partitioning, then resized partitions, it is gonna bad things happen. |
| 04:35.32 | ninja | if you choose guided partitioning, you don't need something. |
| 04:35.40 | fraktor | I'm choosing manual now. |
| 04:36.00 | ninja | fraktor: You're not mature enough to deal with it :) |
| 04:36.17 | ninja | At least I'm not with this graphical installer. In command line, I can. |
| 04:36.26 | fraktor | I'll switch to that then |
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| 04:36.47 | CaptainDusty | fraktor: What tweaks are you applying to your partitioning? Honestly; I've never really needed to. |
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| 04:37.15 | CaptainDusty | I find the defaults quite reasonable. Both separate /var/tmp, etc - and all in one partition lol |
| 04:37.24 | fraktor | larger /, smaller /home |
| 04:37.29 | ninja | even I use complete encryption with lvm. but once it did partitioning, I was satisfied. |
| 04:37.48 | ninja | CaptainDusty: same goes with encrypted install. |
| 04:37.59 | CaptainDusty | ninja: ^^ Agreed. |
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| 04:38.04 | CaptainDusty | Encrypted LUKS. |
| 04:38.08 | CaptainDusty | There's no other option! |
| 04:38.12 | CaptainDusty | lol |
| 04:38.19 | swamprock | I usually use guided, but then change the swap partition size to something a little more sane based on the amount of memory the machine has |
| 04:38.35 | ninja | I have only one issue, I don't want another ext2 partition, I use EFISTUB so I deleted it once Installation was complete. |
| 04:38.45 | CaptainDusty | Oh ha. |
| 04:38.48 | CaptainDusty | Fair enough. |
| 04:39.17 | ninja | for me it created encrypted swap same as system memory. |
| 04:39.22 | fraktor | I'll do guided and leave it alone. it's probably fine |
| 04:39.42 | ninja | https://bpaste.net/show/M0cY |
| 04:40.03 | CaptainDusty | fraktor: It's totally fine :P |
| 04:40.24 | CaptainDusty | swap from memory is default, iirc? |
| 04:40.43 | ninja | fraktor: nice but you will be asked to hit finish partitioning. Don't forget that. |
| 04:40.44 | annadane | people still use ext2? |
| 04:41.04 | ninja | annadane: ext2 is created during installation for boot. |
| 04:41.14 | annadane | oh right |
| 04:41.16 | annadane | yes |
| 04:41.52 | ninja | if you have a phone, take a pic and upload it to some pastebin like imgur and paste URL here so someone will guide you. fraktor |
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| 04:42.33 | fraktor | will do when I get there |
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| 04:43.19 | fraktor | ugh slow internet |
| 04:43.50 | CaptainDusty | fraktor: For your next project; apt-cacher-ng |
| 04:45.15 | crestfallen | ninja please see line 38. this didn't change the cursor shape within nvim to IBeam. thanks |
| 04:45.22 | crestfallen | https://paste.ee/p/WuwlO |
| 04:46.51 | ninja | crestfallen: I don't have nvim. lemme install both of them and maybe then I'll be able to help |
| 04:47.51 | ninja | You don't want red cursor right? |
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| 04:49.05 | crestfallen | no red thanks just white (with my black background) ninja thanks |
| 04:49.35 | ninja | in only nvim? for me in xterm, its also red. |
| 04:50.37 | crestfallen | I have a haskell package in nvim . when I upgraded to buster, the cursor changed shape |
| 04:51.31 | ninja | https://i.imgur.com/1OJh3ud.png |
| 04:52.09 | crestfallen | that's the underscore cursor. I'd like the IBeam which is vertical |
| 04:53.05 | crestfallen | there is a setting in init.vim called ' set guicursor= ' . I'm working on that now |
| 04:53.24 | ninja | https://neovim.io/doc/user/term.html#tui-cursor-shape |
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| 05:01.30 | alkisg | On stretch, I'm trying to lock apt so that `apt install` etc will be temporarily disabled. I run `flock /var/lib/dpkg/lock bash`, and yet apt install etc works fine. On the other hand, if I have synaptic open, `apt install` does fail. How can I really lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock? |
| 05:01.51 | crestfallen | weird ninja , in nvim with haskell I got it to work with set ' guicursor= ' (no numeral). but in nvim while editing the .vim config file, its still a block! (until you go into insert mode) |
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| 05:08.22 | themill | alkisg: dpkg doesn't use flock(2) it uses fcntl(2) for locking. (Also, why do you want to do this? It's a very unusual thing to do. This is not a public interface of dpkg's.) |
| 05:09.23 | alkisg | themill: thank you; in ltsp, we want to temporarily lock apt in order to create a squashfs image out of the server's /, so since there's no support for snapshots, lock apt is the best we can do to prevent the user from shooting himself in the foot |
| 05:13.14 | fraktor | finally got photos: https://imgur.com/a/DoZwT6z |
| 05:13.35 | fraktor | ninja CaptainDusty |
| 05:14.38 | ninja | fraktor: I asked for a pic when you are done with partitioning. |
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| 05:19.07 | themill | alkisg: lckdo from moreutils implements fcntl if memory serves me correctly. |
| 05:19.43 | alkisg | themill: thank you, testing; so far I was looking if I could use dpkg itself, maybe with a --pre-hook=bash, so that I stall there until I'm done, and pkill it later |
| 05:21.35 | alkisg | themill: thank you very much; that works fine! (I'll try dpkg for a bit though in case I can avoid the moreutils dependency) |
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| 05:22.26 | themill | I'd suggest interacting with the apt and dpkg developers on this as they are generally responsive to thinking about how they can expose private things through a public API |
| 05:22.49 | fraktor | ninja. oops. what's the information I'm looking for? |
| 05:24.25 | newtodeb | hello, what ftp service are you recommending for a debian newbie? |
| 05:25.01 | newtodeb | or should i use samba? looking for a cheap NAS solution |
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| 05:26.41 | Arahael | Definitely samba. |
| 05:27.12 | Arahael | Unless it's internet facing? |
| 05:27.22 | Arahael | If so, probably sftp. |
| 05:27.31 | Arahael | (Which just requires ssh) |
| 05:28.04 | fraktor | https://imgur.com/a/cifaNRY |
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| 05:29.42 | newtodeb | its not entirley used in my own network, acess should be possible from outside my network |
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| 05:58.39 | diogenes_ | Hello guys, what would be a good way ro remove duplicates from a text file? for instance if in the same file, there's two occurrences of libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0) or more, only one to be left? |
| 05:59.55 | bad_cat | diogenes_: uniq(1p) or uniq(1) |
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| 06:00.28 | diogenes_ | bad_cat, uniq(1p) textfile? |
| 06:00.41 | bad_cat | diogenes_: it's a man page |
| 06:00.52 | bad_cat | foo(1) means "man page for foo in section 1" |
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| 06:01.03 | diogenes_ | oh thanks, gonna have a look. |
| 06:01.15 | alkisg | diogenes_: looking for duplicate lines or duplicate words? you might need to convert words into lines first |
| 06:01.49 | diogenes_ | alkisg, how to do that? |
| 06:02.01 | bad_cat | oh, duplicate words...? |
| 06:02.14 | alkisg | diogenes_: checking for duplicate words is a lot more complex, so it'd best if you pasted specific content |
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| 06:02.33 | alkisg | E.g. is "1.14.0" a word? Do you really want to remove it if found elsewhere? |
| 06:02.46 | diogenes_ | yeah i guess it would be a problem because the entire line to be removed involves a space. |
| 06:03.37 | alkisg | E.g. if it's a list of dependencies, you'd need a small script to convert them into "same" lines first, before using uniq or sort -u later |
| 06:04.25 | bad_cat | diogenes_: how are you generating the output, though? perhaps there is a more script-friendly way to generate a list of packages |
| 06:04.38 | bad_cat | (also, what's the goal here? feels a bit like an XY problem...) |
| 06:04.41 | diogenes_ | alkisg, yes, a list of dependencies for a control file. |
| 06:05.11 | diogenes_ | bad_cat, i'm building a kind of a frankenstein package with lots of dependecies so that's why i need it to remove the duplicates. |
| 06:05.41 | alkisg | diogenes_: in that case, "comma" is your "word separator", so you need a bash command to put each dependency in a separate line first; then just sort -u |
| 06:06.31 | diogenes_ | alkisg, ok thanks, will search how to do that. |
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| 06:07.39 | alkisg | diogenes_: echo $(apt show mate-desktop | grep Depends) | tr ',' '\n' | sort -u |
| 06:07.58 | alkisg | Try that in any package; it should give you a good starting command; it might also fit your content too |
| 06:08.24 | diogenes_ | trying... |
| 06:08.29 | alkisg | I.e. you echo all the lines, to remove extra spaces and enters; then you replace , with enter |
| 06:09.20 | alkisg | text="your depends text, with a lot of lines"; echo $text | tr ',' '\n' | sort -u |
| 06:09.28 | alkisg | I.e. don't put quotes around $text there |
| 06:09.45 | diogenes_ | that's a good one, thanks alkisg |
| 06:09.49 | alkisg | np |
| 06:10.41 | alkisg | To put back commas at the end of the lines, append this: | sed 's/$/,/' |
| 06:11.00 | diogenes_ | copied |
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| 06:44.45 | z8z | during the Debian upgrade to 10 i'm being asked about the MiniSSDP daemon configuration |
| 06:44.59 | z8z | Should the daemon be enabled at boot? |
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| 07:20.14 | ZeroBeholder | #gitea |
| 07:20.51 | ZeroBeholder | Bah, was attempting to join a different channel. False alarm... |
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| 07:23.08 | jelly | z8z: it's possible you don't need minissdpd at all and some other package pulled it in |
| 07:23.36 | jelly | z8z: run "aptitude why minissdpd" after the release upgrade is done |
| 07:24.22 | z8z | jelly: aptitute why does what exactly? |
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| 07:25.23 | jelly | shows a possible reason why a package got installed |
| 07:25.36 | z8z | oh ok |
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| 07:25.50 | z8z | it's actually default in debian 9 |
| 07:26.01 | z8z | i tested from clean debian 9 installation |
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| 07:26.21 | jelly | that seems unlikely. Maybe if you install Gnome? |
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| 07:26.43 | z8z | yes with desktop |
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| 07:27.51 | jelly | Gnome has lots of weird dependencies. |
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| 07:28.25 | z8z | I mean... the default desktop given by debian 9 |
| 07:28.55 | z8z | so should i remove it before the upgrade? |
| 07:29.01 | z8z | or after? |
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| 07:35.35 | jelly | if you're already in the middle of the upgrade "before" is not an option |
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| 07:38.15 | z8z | no i'm checking before starting |
| 07:38.23 | z8z | is it better to remove it? |
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| 07:40.02 | z8z | oh transmission package uses it |
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| 07:42.04 | humpled | yup same here |
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| 07:42.58 | z8z | I uninstalled transmission and his dependences |
| 07:43.04 | z8z | Will upgrade and install it back |
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| 07:45.39 | yokowka | heavenO everysoul! |
| 07:46.34 | yokowka | how to run installed game which not starts up? |
| 07:47.39 | at0m | yokowka: start it from a command line. see what it prints there, that should explain some |
| 07:48.49 | humpled | there's more to this than meets the eye |
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| 07:49.44 | z8z | Ok i go for the upgrade |
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| 07:56.28 | yokowka | at0m, here prints https://imgur.com/a/KRrFj73 |
| 07:58.19 | at0m | yokowka: seems it doesn't find libpng12 |
| 07:58.30 | at0m | ,v libpng12 |
| 07:58.30 | judd | No package named 'libpng12' was found in amd64. |
| 07:58.33 | at0m | ,v libpng16 |
| 07:58.35 | judd | No package named 'libpng16' was found in amd64. |
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| 07:59.34 | at0m | yokowka: you could install one from https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libpng12 |
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| 07:59.49 | yokowka | i look now |
| 08:00.03 | at0m | download then as root, dpkg -i libpng12*.deb |
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| 08:00.56 | at0m | yokowka: then start the game again from command line, and see the next error, if any. |
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| 08:01.16 | at0m | dpkg: tell yokowka about paste |
| 08:01.58 | at0m | yokowka: no need to paste screenshots for text, see what dpkg bot told you |
| 08:02.06 | tdn | I installed Debian 10 on a remote box. When I installed, I opted to install a desktop env. Thus, network seems to be managed by network manager and not /etc/network/interfaces. Now I am remote and I need to change the network config (from DHCP to static IP). How to do this? |
| 08:02.31 | yokowka | at0m, in link no package fo debian buster |
| 08:02.47 | at0m | yokowka: then try from an older debian version |
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| 08:02.56 | yokowka | doing |
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| 08:03.20 | at0m | tdn: i don't use network manager, but from what i understand, network manager skips the interfaces defined in /etc/network/interfaces. |
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| 08:03.55 | tdn | at0m, so I can just enter the interface inside /etc/network/interfaces, and then reboot and it will work? |
| 08:04.15 | tdn | at0m, can't I just somehow change NMs config through editing a text file? |
| 08:05.25 | at0m | tdn: no need to even reboot. hold on cycling the interface until i explained here below. since it's a remote machine, you don't want this to fail |
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| 08:06.03 | yokowka | at0m, one question: there in link three packages install them all? |
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| 08:06.48 | at0m | yokowka: if libpng12 depends on them, yes. if it's just recommendations, you can see how far you get |
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| 08:07.46 | at0m | tdn: are you familiar with screen or tmux? |
| 08:08.23 | tdn | at0m, yes, I use screen already as I am aware that I probably need to do something like DO_SOMETHING && sleep 10 || ABORT_STEPS |
| 08:08.32 | at0m | tdn: you'd want to run the following in either screen or tmux, so the commands can continue to run in the background |
| 08:08.35 | at0m | right |
| 08:08.39 | tdn | at0m, at least that is what I typically do while changing firewall rules via ssh |
| 08:08.42 | at0m | tdn: cp /etc/network/interfaces /etc/network/interfaces.bak then add the interface to /etc/network/interfaces. |
| 08:08.49 | at0m | tdn: great |
| 08:09.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1534] by debhelper |
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| 08:10.06 | at0m | so my general fail-safe method is to apply the changes, set up a sleep indeed that undoes the changes in case they failed. set sleep to 2mins or something confortable. once it worked and you're back in, you can abort the undo |
| 08:11.49 | at0m | tdn: for example ifdown eth0; ifup eth0; sleep 2m; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ifdown eth0 ; ifup eth0 |
| 08:12.23 | at0m | ok ifup and ifdown are probably deprecated by now. ip should be the right way to do it. meh. |
| 08:12.26 | tdn | at0m, appearently the iface is named enp0s31f6. Is this a new naming scheme in debian 10?? |
| 08:12.49 | at0m | tdn: yes then use that iface name |
| 08:13.13 | at0m | https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ |
| 08:13.53 | at0m | (tl;dr, this prevents name changes to ifaces when other ifaces are added or removed) |
| 08:13.53 | tdn | at0m, ifdown enp0s31f6 ; ifup enp0s31f6; sleep 120; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ifdown enp0s31f6 ; ifup enp0s31f6 |
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| 08:14.22 | at0m | tdn: right. at worst, that doesn't work, but at least all will be restored then |
| 08:14.23 | tdn | at0m, do ifup/down still work tough? |
| 08:14.26 | tdn | thoug |
| 08:14.30 | tdn | though even :) |
| 08:14.51 | tdn | "ifdown: interface enp0s31f6 not configured |
| 08:14.52 | tdn | " |
| 08:14.57 | tdn | Then machine stops responding. |
| 08:15.07 | tdn | I will now wait for two minutes. Hopefully it will work. |
| 08:15.36 | at0m | for example i don't know if networkmanager needs restarting between such interfaces edit |
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| 08:16.01 | at0m | but yea the machine should come back |
| 08:16.09 | at0m | you can even try to ssh in already |
| 08:16.39 | tdn | at0m, oh. Appearently I did not lose connection. It is still there. |
| 08:17.15 | tdn | So why does it say it is not configured? |
| 08:17.47 | at0m | once back in, abort that sleep and undo routine |
| 08:17.53 | at0m | hmm not sure |
| 08:18.05 | tdn | at0m, Im back in and undid it all |
| 08:18.13 | tdn | at0m, then I made the changes to interfaces once again |
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| 08:19.23 | at0m | tdn: maybe wait for someone who's actually familiar with network manager then. idk if it needs to be stopped, for example |
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| 08:19.44 | at0m | but at least you got a method to fiddle and undo in screen using that sleep thing |
| 08:19.45 | tdn | at0m, yeah, that was why I proposed a reboot. But not sure if that is enough. |
| 08:19.55 | tdn | at0m, not sure if I need to "delete" it from NMs config somehow |
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| 08:20.52 | at0m | i have no idea, Network Manager's caps alone scared me plenty to stay away from it |
| 08:21.03 | tdn | at0m, hah me too! |
| 08:21.17 | MySecondNick | Hey guys! Can you tell me what are the differences between amd64, i386 and other architectures? On Windows it is straight forward - I have 32-bit and 64-bit Windows, but I don't know which to download from the website. I want to have 64-bit functionality. I will have Intel i5-8250U mobile processor. Any help in choosing my architecture (if it even is architecture)? |
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| 08:21.29 | tdn | at0m, if I just reboot now with iface added to interfaces file, wont it just either work with the new address; OR work as normally with NM managing the iface? |
| 08:21.41 | at0m | MySecondNick: that's amd64 then. |
| 08:21.47 | tdn | MySecondNick, amd64 is 64 bit, i386 is 32 bit |
| 08:21.59 | MySecondNick | at0m tdn what are the other ones alongside them? |
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| 08:22.09 | MySecondNick | like armel, mips etc? |
| 08:22.20 | kouett | Tdn: I think ifdown says not configured because the interface config is not managed by ifup/idown |
| 08:22.28 | tdn | MySecondNick, other architectures. Google them for more info. If you dont know them, you do not need them :) |
| 08:22.35 | at0m | MySecondNick: https://wiki.debian.org/SupportedArchitectures |
| 08:22.53 | tdn | kouett, how do ifup/ifdown determine that? |
| 08:23.12 | kouett | So maybe using ip addr flush and ip link set down and then ifup with new conf file would work |
| 08:23.18 | MySecondNick | tdn at0m do I need 3 DVD's to install the new Debian 10.0 on my machine? |
| 08:23.55 | at0m | MySecondNick: not at all. if you got network, it will download your selection of packages as needed |
| 08:24.22 | at0m | MySecondNick: one CD should be enough. you can put it on a usb stick, even, see.. (hold on) |
| 08:24.23 | tdn | MySecondNick, if you have network, just download the network install image. It is 2-300 MB IIRC |
| 08:24.24 | MySecondNick | at0m Oh. So I can just download DVD-1 from https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/ ? |
| 08:24.38 | MySecondNick | I have a DVD |
| 08:24.41 | kouett | Tdn: not sure but maybe by checking if there is an entry about the interface in /etc/network/interfaces |
| 08:24.45 | at0m | not even dvd. fwiw, i always go from the netinstall.iso |
| 08:24.46 | MySecondNick | so I can just download the DVD version, no problem |
| 08:24.58 | tdn | kouett, but I just added an entry to there. |
| 08:25.00 | at0m | why waste plastic =) |
| 08:25.09 | MySecondNick | at0m Well I already bought it :) |
| 08:25.17 | MySecondNick | do you guys here develop Debian? |
| 08:25.18 | kouett | Personally I don't use NM, just plain ifup/ifdown |
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| 08:25.52 | at0m | MySecondNick: varies. most would be just users like yourself in a bit |
| 08:26.01 | MySecondNick | at0m I already am an user :) |
| 08:26.05 | MySecondNick | I am on Debian 9 |
| 08:26.16 | MySecondNick | Been using it for a year now |
| 08:26.18 | MySecondNick | I LOVE it |
| 08:26.24 | at0m | MySecondNick: then you don't need to reinstall from dvd |
| 08:26.28 | MySecondNick | it is so stable compared to Ubuntu in terms of the system from crashing |
| 08:26.35 | MySecondNick | at0m I am getting a new PC |
| 08:26.37 | MySecondNick | :) |
| 08:27.27 | at0m | MySecondNick: oh cool. also 64bit? i mean you can transfer a lot or all of your current install to the new machine |
| 08:27.36 | MySecondNick | at0m rather not |
| 08:27.43 | MySecondNick | I want to start from a "clean slate" |
| 08:27.45 | at0m | unlike windows, you can often just put the old disk in the new machine and continue to work |
| 08:27.50 | MySecondNick | will re-install the packages manually |
| 08:27.58 | MySecondNick | and backup my important files |
| 08:27.59 | at0m | (notwithstanding soem specific non-free firmware) |
| 08:28.05 | at0m | *some |
| 08:28.28 | MySecondNick | Debian is honestly IMO so much better than Ubuntu it is crazy |
| 08:28.44 | MySecondNick | it is much more stable in the sense that it works for a year without crashing |
| 08:28.44 | kouett | Tdn: ok so maybe it relies on temp files also, I don't really know. The point is you can't "ifdown" an interface if it was not brought up by ifup, so you have to do it manually (via the "ip" commands) |
| 08:28.47 | MySecondNick | Ubuntu crashes |
| 08:28.49 | MySecondNick | a lot |
| 08:28.51 | at0m | MySecondNick: ok. be sure to get your /home, and probably a copy of /etc and /var/lib/ will help restoring settings and databases |
| 08:29.08 | MySecondNick | at0m OK |
| 08:29.15 | MySecondNick | I intend to read the book on Linux OS |
| 08:29.24 | at0m | you can tarbal those to a usb stick or so |
| 08:29.24 | MySecondNick | What Every Superuser should know |
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| 08:29.44 | tdn | at0m, I just did this: http://paste.yt/p8777.html |
| 08:29.53 | tdn | at0m, it is sleeping at this point. |
| 08:29.57 | MySecondNick | thank you at0m and tdn |
| 08:30.06 | MySecondNick | I will leave now to methodically backup my files |
| 08:30.12 | MySecondNick | but thank you so much |
| 08:30.16 | MySecondNick | have a nice day |
| 08:30.24 | tdn | kouett, how to do that with ip? |
| 08:30.54 | tdn | kouett, I just tried this: http://paste.yt/p8777.html , it is sleeping there. I still have connection to it, so I aborted. |
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| 08:32.17 | kouett | Tdn: with ip you do: ip addr flush dev "int name"; ip link set down dev "int name" |
| 08:32.19 | tdn | If I ping the new static IP address, it DOES reply when I ping it from the machine itself. However, if I ping from another host on the network, this new IP does NOT reply |
| 08:32.53 | kouett | Tdn: is your netmask correct? |
| 08:32.58 | tdn | kouett, so do I just put that in instaed of ifup/ifdown? |
| 08:33.08 | tdn | kouett, I think so? |
| 08:33.37 | tdn | kouett, oh. Actually, first time it did this, I used wrong netmask: 255.255.254.0 instead of 255.255.255.0 |
| 08:33.41 | kouett | Tdn: the "ip" commands are for replacing the "ifdown" part only |
| 08:35.43 | at0m | kouett: anything ifup/ifdown/ifconfig, i think |
| 08:35.53 | tdn | Will this be safe: service network-manager restart ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6; sleep 120; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6 ; sleep 5; service network-manager restart |
| 08:36.02 | tdn | Not sure if the entire command went through? |
| 08:36.11 | tdn | http://paste.yt/p8779.html |
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| 08:36.32 | ayekat | at0m: ifup and ifdown are for interacting with ifupdown - ifconfig is an independent tool (that has been deprecated in favour of ip on linux-based systems) |
| 08:36.58 | at0m | ayekat: ok, thanks. i'm getting old on linux :> |
| 08:37.31 | at0m | yea it did come through. but why restart NM if you can stop it (and start it with the restore routine) |
| 08:37.39 | at0m | tdn: ^ |
| 08:37.52 | tdn | at0m, good point. Will change it |
| 08:38.08 | at0m | tdn: effort is to get rid of NM eventually, right |
| 08:38.18 | tdn | at0m, I restarted just to verify that NM and the static interfaces can indeed co-exist. |
| 08:38.25 | tdn | Otherwise I will have a problem on next reboot |
| 08:38.35 | tdn | service network-manager stop ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6; sleep 120; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6 ; sleep 5; service network-manager start |
| 08:38.40 | tdn | ^ correct? |
| 08:38.58 | at0m | this isn't windows, no need to reboot. unless kernel update.. |
| 08:39.07 | at0m | idk, not familiar with ip like that |
| 08:39.22 | ayekat | wat - does NM even interact with /etc/network/interfaces? Ã_ò |
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| 08:40.16 | at0m | < at0m> tdn: i don't use network manager, but from what i understand, network manager skips the interfaces defined in /etc/network/interfaces. |
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| 08:41.03 | ayekat | /etc/network/interfaces is for ifupdown - NetworkManager AFAIK completely ignores that file |
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| 08:41.21 | at0m | ah |
| 08:41.25 | tdn | ayekat, does 'ip' not use that file? |
| 08:41.33 | at0m | ayekat: tdn is working on a remote machine, no physical access. hence the restore routine in the command line |
| 08:41.50 | ayekat | tdn: ip doesn't use any file - it's a utility for directly manipulating network interfaces |
| 08:42.04 | tdn | ayekat, ok |
| 08:42.46 | tdn | ayekat, ok, so the command above will just end up in no network at all? Because I bring it down with "ip" and then it is never brought up with ifup? |
| 08:43.12 | ayekat | tdn: honestly, I think I'll have to read the backlog to understand what you're trying to do there |
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| 08:43.47 | ayekat | but mixing NM, ifupdown and manual ip commands sounds like a recipe for disaster if you don't know exactly what you're doing - especially on a remote machine |
| 08:44.24 | tdn | ayekat, I don't. But it sounds like you do :) |
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| 08:45.04 | ayekat | tdn: how do you currently manage your network? with NetworkManager? |
| 08:45.52 | ayekat | tdn: the problem is I don't know NetworkManager too well either (I believe that there's a CLI utility, `nm-tui` or `nm-cli` or something), so I can't help very well either |
| 08:46.07 | tdn | ayekat, I just installed debian 10 on a machine and opted for installing a desktop env. Thus, network ended up being managed by NM |
| 08:46.12 | ayekat | but I know that mixing different network management utilities usually doesn't end up well |
| 08:46.30 | tdn | ayekat, now I need to change the network config to a static IP on a different network from currently using NM and DHCP |
| 08:46.56 | ayekat | tdn: OK - so I wouldn't bother touching /etc/network/interfaces (AFAIK only the `lo` part should stay in there) - and I believe there are ways of telling NM to set a static IP address |
| 08:47.40 | tdn | ayekat, how to do that remotely? |
| 08:47.42 | ayekat | use `ip` commands only if you are not using any network management tool (or you want to temporarily bypass NM/ifupdown/networkd/â¦) |
| 08:48.19 | ayekat | tdn: as I said, I don't know - I think there is a tool called `nm-cli` to interact with NetworkManager on the command line |
| 08:48.30 | tdn | ayekat, there is "nmcli" |
| 08:48.34 | ayekat | but someone more familiar with NetworkManager would need to give their insight |
| 08:48.35 | tdn | ayekat, and nmtui |
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| 08:49.56 | tdn | ayekat, so what if I want to effectively go from NM manged network to ifupdown managed network? Can't I do this? |
| 08:50.11 | tdn | ayekat, it is not that I want to "mix" them. I really just want to get rid of NM |
| 08:50.20 | tdn | ayekat, AND change network |
| 08:50.44 | ZaZaGX | !sources non free |
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| 08:51.38 | ZaZaGX | the hell |
| 08:51.41 | ayekat | tdn: yes, you *can* switch |
| 08:52.33 | ayekat | tdn: I guess you can first configure ifupdown (i.e. /etc/network/interfaces), then stop NM and `ifup {interface}` in one line |
| 08:52.55 | ayekat | tdn: but if something goes wrong, you're locked out - have you got any alternative way of accessing that machine? (e.g. serial console, or VNC) |
| 08:53.22 | at0m | ayekat: hence the undo routine in the one-liner |
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| 08:53.36 | at0m | ayekat: running in a screen session with sleep timer |
| 08:54.05 | tdn | ayekat, that is exactly what we are trying to do. |
| 08:54.17 | tdn | ayekat, I have no other way to access the machine. |
| 08:54.25 | tdn | VNC uses network too, right? |
| 08:54.31 | at0m | if it worked, tdn can log in and cancel the undo, if it didn't, changes will be undone |
| 08:54.52 | at0m | tdn: nope it uses neutrino radiation networking /s |
| 08:55.06 | at0m | ok that's network, to |
| 08:55.09 | at0m | too |
| 08:55.12 | tdn | :) |
| 08:55.18 | ayekat | tdn: yes, but I am assuming here that the VNC server is running on dom0 (and your machine there is running in a virtualised environment) |
| 08:55.47 | tdn | at0m, kouett: So I guess we are back to the same approach. The command below will not bring the network back up, right? Due to missing calls to "ifup". Is that correct? |
| 08:55.50 | tdn | service network-manager stop ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6; sleep 120; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6 ; sleep 5; service network-manager start |
| 08:56.08 | tdn | ayekat, this is a physical machine |
| 08:56.32 | ayekat | tdn: the problem is that `ip link set dev ... up` doesn't configure the interface at all - it just sets it to "up", but doesn't set any IP address |
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| 08:57.00 | tdn | ayekat, so I need to add 'ifup' after that then? |
| 08:57.23 | kouett | Tdn: This could work: systemctl stop network-manager && ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 && ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 && ifup enp0s31f6; sleep 2m; ifdown enp0s31f6; cp /etc/network/interfaces.bak /etc/network/interfaces; systemctl start network-manager |
| 08:57.23 | tdn | service network-manager stop ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6; sleep 120; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6 ; ifup enp0s31f6; sleep 120; service network-manager start |
| 08:57.25 | ayekat | tdn: ifup will only work if /etc/network/interfaces is configured correctly - but I assume that is already the case? |
| 08:57.36 | tdn | ayekat, I think so, yes. |
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| 08:57.42 | ayekat | kouett's approach seems more reasonable there |
| 08:58.11 | tdn | ayekat, isn't that the one I am trying in that command? |
| 08:58.36 | ayekat | tdn: no, you've got `ip link set dev ... up`, while it should rather be `ifup ...` |
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| 08:58.47 | kouett | Tdn: just to be sure, your .bak file contains the unmodified file? |
| 08:58.49 | ayekat | (because you want ifupdown to manage that interface) |
| 08:58.56 | tdn | ayekat, yes |
| 08:59.00 | tdn | kouett, yes |
| 08:59.19 | tdn | ayekat, so I change to this: |
| 08:59.20 | tdn | service network-manager stop ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6; sleep 120; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ifup enp0s31f6; sleep 120; service network-manager start |
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| 08:59.36 | ayekat | tdn: what, no - read kouett's command line |
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| 09:00.01 | tdn | Oh. Did not see that one |
| 09:00.20 | ayekat | tdn: the general idea is (1) stop NM, (2) start ifupdown, (3) wait, (4) stop ifupdown, (5) start NM |
| 09:00.57 | ayekat | if you can log during (3), everything went fine, otherwise (4) and (5) will roll back the changes |
| 09:01.04 | ayekat | if (4) and (5) fail, you're out of luck |
| 09:01.24 | tdn | Ok. I am ready to try "systemctl stop network-manager && ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 && ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 && ifup enp0s31f6; sleep 2m; ifdown enp0s31f6; cp /etc/network/interfaces.bak /etc/network/interfaces; systemctl start network-manager" unless any objections? |
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| 09:02.20 | tdn | If I run this, and I can SSH into the machine on the new address. Then I resume the screen and Ctrl+C the command, right? |
| 09:02.29 | tdn | And then completely uninstall networkmanager somehow? |
| 09:02.34 | ayekat | tdn: looks fine - just curious what /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/network/interfaces.bak currently look like |
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| 09:04.20 | tdn | ayekat, http://paste.yt/p8780.html |
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| 09:04.56 | ayekat | looks reasonable |
| 09:05.21 | tdn | OK. Here we go. |
| 09:05.26 | ayekat | (at least the .bak one - I'm not familiar enough with ifupdown to assess the first one) |
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| 09:07.34 | tdn | Well...I lost the connection alright.... SO now I am waiting. Hopefully it will come back up |
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| 09:08.37 | at0m | don't wait, try to log in |
| 09:09.04 | at0m | you don't need to know if the backup routine worked, you need to know if the actual change worked |
| 09:09.11 | at0m | backup/restore |
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| 09:09.30 | ayekat | actually, is `ip link set {up,down} dev ...` even valid syntax? shouldn't the {up,down} go at the end? |
| 09:09.41 | tdn | at0m, it did not. I did not just wait. I pinged the new address in the meantime :) |
| 09:09.45 | tdn | at0m, and it does NOT reply |
| 09:09.59 | tdn | at0m, now the command timed out and I can ssh back in on the old address (phew) |
| 09:10.14 | tdn | No output from the command at all. |
| 09:10.57 | ayekat | ah yes, `ip link set {up,down} dev ...` actually valid |
| 09:11.11 | tdn | ? |
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| 09:11.39 | ayekat | tdn: sorry, was just talking to myself and making sure that there isn't any syntax error in those `ip` commands there |
| 09:11.57 | tdn | ayekat, then I guess it should have complained, right? |
| 09:12.03 | ayekat | tdn: did it print any error messages in screen? |
| 09:12.05 | tdn | It produced zero output from any of the commands |
| 09:12.17 | ayekat | hum... |
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| 09:13.43 | ayekat | tdn: you could try again, but also print `ip addr show` and `ip route show` between the `ifup` and `sleep` (for debugging) |
| 09:14.15 | ayekat | (also maybe reduce the sleep time to a bit less than 2 minutes, given that we know that it doesn't work) |
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| 09:14.45 | tdn | Like this? |
| 09:14.52 | tdn | systemctl stop network-manager && ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 && ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 && ifup enp0s31f6; ip addr show; ip route show; sleep 2m; ifdown enp0s31f6; cp /etc/network/interfaces.bak /etc/network/interfaces; systemctl start network-manager |
| 09:15.37 | ayekat | tdn: yeah (assuming /etc/network/interfaces contains the desired configuration again, given that you previously overwrote it with the .bak file) |
| 09:15.49 | tdn | ayekat, yes |
| 09:16.39 | tdn | Here we go... |
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| 09:20.16 | tdn | ayekat, http://paste.yt/p8781.html |
| 09:20.24 | tdn | ayekat, output this time |
| 09:21.02 | tdn | I think this line indicates that it did configure the IP: inet 172.28.130.50/24 brd 172.28.130.255 scope global enp0s31f6 |
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| 09:21.09 | tdn | But that it did not work. |
| 09:21.10 | ayekat | tdn: seems like expected - but can't connect to 172.28.130.50 during that sleep? |
| 09:21.21 | ayekat | s/but can't/but you can't/ |
| 09:21.21 | tdn | Nope. |
| 09:21.39 | tdn | Maybe it actually works. But there is a problem in the vlan config. |
| 09:21.42 | tdn | Will check up on it. |
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| 09:22.23 | ayekat | hm... NO-CARRIER... DOWN... |
| 09:22.25 | at0m | tdn: yea can insert a ping from the remote box to another IP in that lan, too |
| 09:23.19 | tdn | systemctl stop network-manager && ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 && ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 && ifup enp0s31f6; ip addr show; ip route show; ping -c1 172.28.132.138; sleep 2m; ifdown enp0s31f6; cp /etc/network/interfaces.bak /etc/network/interfaces; systemctl start network-manager |
| 09:23.26 | ayekat | although - maybe ifupdown forks the configuring part to the background and returns immediately - I'd try to insert a `sleep 10` or something right after ifup |
| 09:23.42 | tdn | ayekat, good idea. |
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| 09:23.59 | ayekat | tdn: also, I'd remove the sleep 2m there - seems rather pointless given that we know it doesn't work |
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| 09:28.52 | tdn | The ping results in 100 % packet loss. |
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| 09:29.40 | ayekat | tdn: and the `ip addr` output now? is it still NO-CARRIER and DOWN? |
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| 09:31.15 | tdn | It is a vlan problem. |
| 09:31.22 | tdn | Talking to a network admin now |
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| 09:32.40 | ayekat | oh, vlan is involved O_o |
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| 09:33.16 | ayekat | (would actually be interesting to see the output of `ip addr` and `ip route` with NetworkManager running) |
| 09:33.56 | tdn | ayekat, Ok. So it needed to be on a different vlan in order to actually use that IP address. |
| 09:34.13 | tdn | So I removed everything after the "ifup" and then ran the command. |
| 09:34.20 | tdn | So now it is permanently on the new network config. |
| 09:34.40 | tdn | Now the net admin change the vlan so that it should be able to actually use it. |
| 09:35.15 | tdn | The vlan has been changed and it should be able to use the new address now. However, it does not reply to ping. |
| 09:35.21 | tdn | I think I just lost the server... |
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| 09:35.29 | ayekat | tdn: alright... I think it's still weird that it gives you NO-CARRIER, though |
| 09:35.40 | tdn | ayekat, what does that mean? |
| 09:35.41 | ayekat | NO-CARRIER is essentially "the cable is not plugged in" |
| 09:36.03 | ayekat | (or "not connected to WiFi access point" in case of wireless interfaces) |
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| 09:36.19 | tdn | Strange. |
| 09:36.36 | ayekat | so even if VLAN is involved, I don't think the issue is on that level (but I may be wrong) |
| 09:36.43 | tdn | I just had the net admin bring down link on the switch port and bring it back up in the hope that it would trigger soemthing in the machine to work. But it didnt |
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| 09:37.06 | ayekat | yeah no, I wouldn't have removed the "rollback" part in your command there |
| 09:37.12 | tdn | ayekat, maybe. Well. I dont think I can do anything now. |
| 09:37.13 | ayekat | that was the failsafe |
| 09:37.28 | tdn | ayekat, yeah, I know. But the failsafe would not work when it was on the other vlan anyway. |
| 09:38.21 | tdn | I will have to travel physically to the box and fix it |
| 09:38.28 | ayekat | hmmm... well, I guess "grab a keyboard and a screen, and move your *** to the server room" it is then :-) |
| 09:38.38 | tdn | yeah |
| 09:39.23 | tdn | kouett, ayekat, at0m: thanks a lot for your help! |
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| 09:47.25 | at0m | tdn: another option would have been an autossh on the remote machine, for a reverse tunnel to a machine you do have access to. and hope route and stuff on the remote works |
| 09:47.44 | at0m | autossh is ssh but keeps retrying upon disconnect |
| 09:48.05 | at0m | but yea undo routine ftw |
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| 10:45.32 | bolovanos | hithere, is there a way to measure aggregate traffic (for specific period of time) over net interface on Debian Stretch? Right now I am using Munin for data aggregation... |
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| 10:51.55 | tdn | at0m, problem was solved now. Someone moved a cable to the wrong switch port, so the vlan changes were made on a different port. |
| 10:53.02 | zleap | hi |
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| 10:55.03 | ayekat | tdn: good to know ^^ |
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| 11:02.41 | HeXiLeD | bolovanos: vnstat? |
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| 11:03.57 | jelly | tdn: "cdpr" is a useful tool to figure out which switch/router your server is connected to. The switch need to have LLDP (vendor neutral) or CDP (cisco) enabled on all ports |
| 11:04.21 | tdn | jelly, thanks for the tip :) |
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| 11:05.52 | n_1-c_k | bolovanos: one way is to monitor /sys/class/net/$iface/statistics/rx_bytes, tx_bytes |
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| 11:11.05 | bolovanos | HeXiLeD, n_1-c_k : luckily server have had almost year since last restart than guessing month traffic would be enough. Thank you. |
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| 11:26.54 | murii | hey, when will i3 be updated to the lastest version? |
| 11:26.59 | Habbie | ,v i3 |
| 11:27.00 | judd | Package: i3 on amd64 -- jessie: 4.8-2; stretch: 4.13-1+deb9u1; bullseye: 4.16.1-1; buster: 4.16.1-1; sid: 4.16.1-1 |
| 11:27.08 | murii | latest is v4.17 |
| 11:27.25 | Habbie | then presumably that will hit sid at some point |
| 11:27.27 | Habbie | but not the others |
| 11:27.44 | Habbie | sorry |
| 11:27.45 | Habbie | sid and bullseye |
| 11:28.11 | murii | how do I check what I'm currently on? |
| 11:28.12 | murii | uname? |
| 11:28.30 | Habbie | cat /etc/debian_version |
| 11:28.36 | murii | thank you! |
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| 11:34.13 | jelly | !debian suite |
| 11:34.13 | dpkg | cat /etc/debian_version (or lsb_release -sc). Or check /etc/apt/sources.list. If unsure about the distribution, $ cat /etc/{*version*,*release*,*issue*} should grab almost all distributions. |
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| 11:42.41 | diogenes_ | Hey guys, what is debian-live-10.0.0-amd64-standard? i suppose it's gnome but in the same repo there is already debian-live-10.0.0-amd64-gnome? |
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| 12:01.24 | humpled | well the standard iso is much smaller than any of the desktop versions |
| 12:02.33 | diogenes_ | humpled, that's what i have noticed but what's inside of it? is it text mode or something else? |
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| 12:02.43 | ntz | hello |
| 12:02.49 | ntz | I am little bit confused, with legacy grub I 've been restoring failed drive in server with md raid |
| 12:02.56 | ntz | restored all md mirrors (after doing sfdisk /dev/sda | sfdisk /dev/sdb -) and then I did |
| 12:03.03 | ntz | dd if=/dev/sda bs=446 count=1 > /dev/sdb |
| 12:03.07 | ntz | but shouldn't it be bs=448 ??? |
| 12:03.13 | ntz | thanks |
| 12:03.23 | ntz | on this server there are NOT installed grub binaries so I cannot use grub-install /dev/sdb |
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| 12:03.50 | BCMM | you should use fewer line breaks. you nearly triggered the bot there |
| 12:04.23 | ntz | sure ... sorry, I will not use enter key instead of punctuation |
| 12:06.02 | diogenes_ | ntz, you forgot tacit's rules too quickly :) |
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| 12:12.15 | Bushmills | ntz: 446 is ok. at 447 is already the first partition entry. |
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| 12:13.32 | Bushmills | 446 is. so your last byte is 445 |
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| 12:14.23 | Bushmills | (end of disk signature) |
| 12:14.32 | mimi89999 | Hello |
| 12:15.03 | mimi89999 | After updating to Debian Buster I have an issue mounting NFS shares with kerberos |
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| 12:15.34 | mimi89999 | root@hostname ~# mount -o sec=krb5p server:/home /home |
| 12:15.34 | mimi89999 | mount.nfs: access denied by server while mounting server:/home |
| 12:16.14 | mimi89999 | âroot@hostname ~# mount -o sec=krb5 server:/home /home |
| 12:16.14 | mimi89999 | mount.nfs: an incorrect mount option was specified |
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| 12:26.47 | fraktor | ninja: hey I'm really sorry, but I'm using a trash tier irc client that doesn't have infinite scroll back. could you message me what you said about my partitioning setup? |
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| 12:28.08 | ninja | fraktor: once you're done with partitioning, there is an option which asks you to save partitioning table. that option is in middle, not on the very right bottom. so choose it |
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| 12:28.59 | ninja | I hope you're doing something like hitting right bottom button and ignoring/not watching for that middle buttons. |
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| 12:29.18 | ninja | fraktor: still you haven't installed debian? |
| 12:29.28 | fraktor | I just see "undo changes to partitions" and "finish partitioning and write changes to disk" |
| 12:29.45 | fraktor | I fell asleep, it is now 6am where I am |
| 12:29.45 | ninja | finish partitioning is all you have to click. |
| 12:30.00 | ninja | Are you from India? |
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| 12:33.12 | ayekat | probably rather america - it's 12:30 UTC |
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| 12:36.09 | BCMM | ninja: "am" means morning. it's around 6 in the afternoon in india |
| 12:37.42 | ninja | BCMM: I didn't see am, sorry, yeah its about to 6PM in India. |
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| 12:55.35 | ntz | Bushmills: thanks |
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| 12:55.55 | ntz | the sdb drive is just new and without anything |
| 12:56.14 | ntz | from what I learned there are 446+2+64 (bootloader image, bootloader signature, partition table for bootloader) .. I am just not sure what from these 3 components is needed ... some articles say that 448 (image+sig) some say that's enough 446 and even less say that 512 is needed |
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| 12:56.35 | ntz | diogenes_: hello buddy ... yeah, I've forgot tacit's rule |
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| 13:23.54 | davis | hello |
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| 13:40.19 | Akuw | anybody here know about msmtp |
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| 13:42.30 | Habbie | Akuw, best to ask your actual question |
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| 13:42.55 | Akuw | echo -e "Subject: Action List OK\r\n $val" | msmtp -a default mymail@gmail.com |
| 13:43.06 | Akuw | but i got the content of val in Subject |
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| 13:43.12 | Akuw | not in the body |
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| 13:44.28 | Habbie | you need two newlines |
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| 13:45.20 | Akuw | ?? |
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| 13:45.29 | jelly | and maybe use printf instead of echo -e because it maybe does not do what you want it to? |
| 13:45.45 | istrive | hello friends, It's time to pick the bright minds here for some help! |
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| 13:45.58 | istrive | First things first! |
| 13:45.59 | brutser | hi, i installed a minimal xorg and xfce on top of deb10, but i got some xsession errors, can someone look at them and say me what packages or config that i am missing? https://transfer.sh/I7Ojg/xsession-errors.log |
| 13:46.01 | greycat | Well, unfortunately, you've got us. |
| 13:46.30 | jelly | Akuw: two consecutive \r\n between headers and body (that is, an empty line between) |
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| 13:47.46 | jelly | and you probably don't need \r because a unix MTA usually converts unix line endings to what the protocol dictates (\r\n) |
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| 13:48.17 | istrive | I'm unable to get the desktop after signing in to Plasma (Debian Buster KDE on VM) reporting error with OpenGL 2, and I alredy tried with 2d and 3d acceleration disabled! |
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| 13:49.39 | istrive | if I try the tty2 it is stuck at SysMon login: but doesnt take any input... |
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| 13:52.52 | Akuw | works |
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| 13:54.16 | greycat | Hit enter a few times? Scroll Lock? Ctrl-Q? |
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| 13:54.48 | Akuw | good |
| 13:54.52 | Akuw | working nice |
| 13:55.07 | Akuw | last thing to send to 4 contacts? |
| 13:55.25 | Akuw | echo -e "Subject: Action List OK\r\n $val" | msmtp -a default mymail@gmail.com another@gmail.com and so on ? |
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| 13:55.43 | jelly | if I ever write a MTA the queue control tool will be named ctlqueue |
| 13:55.46 | istrive | crtl-q worked! |
| 13:56.25 | jelly | Akuw: man msmtp ? |
| 13:57.05 | istrive | <greycat> life saver! thanks a lot |
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| 14:02.47 | Akuw | last question |
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| 14:33.21 | tsglove | Hello. I did a fresh Buster install, and I'm getting this error when I run apt-get update --> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/DTChpYPHkD/ |
| 14:33.55 | tsglove | The repository 'https:.....' is not signed. |
| 14:34.08 | tsglove | This is the first time I've seen this, and I'm not sure how to proceed. |
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| 14:37.08 | greycat | why are you using sury.org with buster |
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| 14:38.42 | tsglove | greycat, hello o/ I believe when I installed this machine, I selected a mirror down the list. |
| 14:38.57 | greycat | !buster sources.list |
| 14:38.58 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 14:39.23 | tsglove | greycat, thank you! On my way to check my sources.list |
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| 14:43.38 | tsglove | greycat, in the interest of learning more about debian... I ask: I removed all lines from sources.list and left only the lines above (posted by dpkg). Yet now, when I run apt-get update, I still get a hit on packages.sury.org |
| 14:43.48 | tsglove | Where else could that call be specified? |
| 14:43.54 | greycat | look in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ |
| 14:44.23 | tsglove | Ah wow yes! I have a php.list in there, and it contains the packages.sury.org |
| 14:44.24 | tsglove | =) |
| 14:44.25 | tsglove | Thank you |
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| 14:50.38 | han-solo | when i doubt, just `grep` the hell out |
| 14:51.06 | greycat | grep -r somekeyword /etc can be a good starting point, sometimes |
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| 15:00.18 | Dirkos | Enter passphrase for key '/home/senet/.ssh/id_rsa' |
| 15:00.25 | Dirkos | Is there a way to store this in the keychain for debian? |
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| 15:00.35 | greycat | man ssh-agent, man ssh-add |
| 15:00.50 | Dirkos | greycat yeah well that is not really working im afraid |
| 15:01.04 | greycat | because of GNOME? or what? WHY isn't it working? |
| 15:01.05 | Dirkos | atleast, it stores it for the session but its not in the keychain so next login the same happens |
| 15:01.13 | greycat | well yeah, that's intended. |
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| 15:01.39 | Dirkos | Is there a way to store it in the keychain so that is not needed anymore |
| 15:01.45 | Dirkos | Thats the main question |
| 15:01.47 | greycat | What do you mean when you use this word "keychain"? |
| 15:01.59 | greycat | Do you simply want to REMOVE THE PASSPHRASE FROM THE KEY entirely? |
| 15:02.06 | Dirkos | Well on the web i can find stuff like: AddKeysToAgent yes |
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| 15:02.20 | Dirkos | No i dont want to remove it, i want my agent to remember it for next time |
| 15:02.24 | greycat | Why? |
| 15:02.30 | Dirkos | I got a brand new Ubuntu installation here why never prompts me anymore |
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| 15:02.50 | greycat | What's the difference between an agent that remembers for you even when someone steals your PC, and not having the passphrase on the key in the first place? |
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| 15:03.32 | Dirkos | true that |
| 15:03.48 | Bushmills | keychain is supposed to permanently supply openssh passphrases |
| 15:04.17 | Bushmills | still needs or starts ssh-agent |
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| 15:04.36 | greycat | The ssh AGENT is supposed to remember your unlocked key, once you unlock it with your passphrase, but only so long as the agent remains running. And it's not supposed to be swapped out, so it never writes the key into swap, etc. |
| 15:04.50 | Dirkos | yeah clear |
| 15:04.52 | greycat | I don't know what a "keychain" is. Maybe that's what GNOME or Ubuntu calls their ssh agent. |
| 15:04.56 | Dirkos | i will remove the passphrase then |
| 15:05.03 | book_ | How can I add slitaz linux on the debian 10 grub2? |
| 15:05.07 | Bushmills | ,v keychain |
| 15:05.08 | judd | Package: keychain on amd64 -- jessie: 2.7.1-1; stretch: 2.8.2-0.1; bullseye: 2.8.5-1; buster: 2.8.5-1; sid: 2.8.5-1 |
| 15:05.12 | Dirkos | thanks greycat |
| 15:05.22 | greycat | ,info keychain |
| 15:05.23 | judd | Package keychain (net, optional) in buster/amd64: key manager for OpenSSH. Version: 2.8.5-1; Size: 38.9k; Installed: 84k; Homepage: https://www.funtoo.org/Keychain |
| 15:05.38 | Habbie | gnome-keyring calls itself Keychain in some dialogs i think |
| 15:05.50 | Piraty | Hi there. How to bootstrap a debian system from source? is there a central repo (like ports maybe) that gets me started? |
| 15:05.54 | Dirkos | "but allows you to easily have one long running ssh-agent process per system, rather than the norm of one ssh-agent per login session."\ |
| 15:05.55 | Dirkos | in general |
| 15:05.58 | greycat | Long description says "When keychain is run, it checks for a running ssh-agent, ..." |
| 15:05.59 | Habbie | Piraty, why do you want this? |
| 15:06.09 | greycat | So it's not an agent. It's yet another layer on top of the agent. Apparently. |
| 15:06.16 | Piraty | Habbie: personal education i guess? |
| 15:06.40 | Piraty | to get to know the packaging process |
| 15:06.54 | greycat | So I guess if you want the Ubuntu behavior, you install this "keychain" package. |
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| 15:08.18 | Piraty | debootstrap kinda acts like a binary bootstrap which requires an already populated package repository. I'm after making my own package repository, building everything from source (given some host tools like compilers etc of course) |
| 15:08.26 | Bushmills | greycat: my mention of package keychain wasn't in response to your question what "a keychain" is, but in response to Dirkos question how to store and supply the passphrase |
| 15:09.01 | Bushmills | I'm sorry if that somehow meddled with conceptual seperation |
| 15:09.09 | greycat | Maybe it's what ubuntu uses and what they're expecting? I never heard of it before. |
| 15:09.48 | greycat | The description of the package seems to match the weird concepts that underlie their question. |
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| 15:10.01 | istrive | I upgraded the vm to Buster from Stretch and now my ip a only shows lo: althouh when I list the usb the ntwork adapter is present, what should I do to get my network connection back? |
| 15:10.45 | Bushmills | istrive: check /etc/network/interfaces |
| 15:11.13 | greycat | istrive: how about "ip link"? |
| 15:11.32 | Bushmills | then look at type of NIC, maybe it needs non-free firmware |
| 15:12.00 | istrive | the interface only shows auto lo / iface lo inet loopbak (/ equals \r) |
| 15:12.04 | greycat | I've never used a USB NIC before, so I don't know the details of how those are handled, but if it's in "ip link" then you should be able to configured it. |
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| 15:12.29 | Habbie | istrive, sidenote: / most likely equals \n |
| 15:12.31 | greycat | wait, they also said "vm" ... why in the hell would a "vm" has a USB NIC? |
| 15:12.54 | Bushmills | well, you missed the "vm", i missed the "usb" :) |
| 15:13.04 | istrive | because I want to give the vm a different WAN connection |
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| 15:13.58 | istrive | dully noted \n ;) !!! |
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| 15:15.15 | Bushmills | lsusb to identify NIC may be good start |
| 15:15.39 | istrive | it worked just fine before upgrading, even during the upgrade process the downloads were successfull! |
| 15:15.48 | istrive | I did and it shows with the driver and all |
| 15:16.09 | Bushmills | does it show with ifconfig -a ? |
| 15:16.10 | istrive | Bus 001 Device 004: ID 13b1:003f Linksys WUSB6300 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wireless Adapter [Realtek RTL8812AU] |
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| 15:16.45 | istrive | nope only lo |
| 15:17.20 | greycat | But this is still all imaginary? You're telling the VM to pretend it has this USB NIC attached to it...? |
| 15:18.06 | istrive | what do you mean pretend? it's is dedicated solely to the vm, the host has it's own connection (independent) |
| 15:18.11 | alkisg | istrive: how did you install 8812au? This isn't available in debian packaging afaik |
| 15:18.21 | greycat | throws hands in the air, walks away |
| 15:18.25 | alkisg | Did you use a github driver? With dkms or not? |
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| 15:19.26 | istrive | nope only loAU |
| 15:19.31 | istrive | sorry |
| 15:19.55 | istrive | RTL8812AU was a driver available in debian |
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| 15:21.32 | Bushmills | firmware-realtek may contain some. rtl8821* comes with kernel |
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| 15:21.58 | Bushmills | but i think latter isn't usb |
| 15:22.03 | alkisg | AFAIK 8812au is only available for ubuntu with dkms, not debian, and even there it's old and not working in current kernels |
| 15:22.28 | alkisg | compare http://packages.ubuntu.com/8812 with http://packages.debian.org/8812 |
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| 15:22.33 | istrive | when I run the usb-devices it shows fine |
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| 15:23.32 | istrive | https://pastebin.com/UzFbWyhK |
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| 15:25.07 | istrive | is there a way to see if the driver was rejected during the boot process? |
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| 15:25.20 | greycat | dmesg, journalctl |
| 15:26.13 | Bushmills | there's an article on debianforum referring to a driver on github which seems to solve it. But it's in German: https://debianforum.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=173929 |
| 15:26.22 | alkisg | istrive: what's the output of this? find /lib/modules -name '*8812*' |
| 15:26.45 | alkisg | Maybe you manually installed it in your older kernel and not know about it |
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| 15:27.39 | istrive | this is what i got //lib/modules/4.9.0-8-amd64/updates/dkms/rtl8812au.ko & lib/modules/4.9.0-9-amd64/updates/dkms/rtl8812au.ko |
| 15:27.52 | alkisg | Right, see, you were using dkms to compile it |
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| 15:28.17 | alkisg | And you were probably using an older version that can't compile against 4.19 |
| 15:28.35 | istrive | what should I do then? |
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| 15:28.59 | alkisg | What's the output of `dpkg -l | grep 8812`, do you have this in a .deb package, or did you download it from github directly? |
| 15:29.21 | Akuw | can i call a expect file just putting file.expec inside a function? |
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| 15:29.46 | istrive | nothing |
| 15:29.56 | alkisg | And the output of `dkms status` ? |
| 15:30.26 | istrive | rtl8812AU_8821AU_linux, 1.0, 4.9.0-8-amd64, x86_64: installed |
| 15:30.26 | istrive | rtl8812AU_8821AU_linux, 1.0, 4.9.0-9-amd64, x86_64: installed |
| 15:30.46 | alkisg | OK, so, you manually downloaded and installed this. Do you remember from where? |
| 15:30.51 | alkisg | Also, what's your `uname -a` now? |
| 15:31.08 | istrive | if I didn't recall manually installing it, you get the idea! ;) lol |
| 15:31.20 | Bushmills | avocados |
| 15:32.02 | istrive | but you are very good, and now I'm heading to the right direction! download and install the driver again manually! You're the man! |
| 15:32.04 | alkisg | I think you might have used https://github.com/abperiasamy/rtl8812AU_8821AU_linux, but that's old, there are newer forks of rtl8812au |
| 15:32.17 | Bushmills | (some of their unsaturated fatty acids are said to improve memory) |
| 15:32.21 | alkisg | So you'd need to uninstall that, and find/install a newer one from github |
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| 15:32.48 | istrive | how to uninstall these old ones? |
| 15:33.07 | alkisg | You need to go to the web page where you installed it from, and follow the uninstall instructions :) |
| 15:33.21 | alkisg | This is outside of debian package management, it's manual instructions |
| 15:33.53 | alkisg | Check that page that I linked above for an example |
| 15:34.00 | istrive | so each package is an independent install/uninstall procedure? |
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| 15:34.09 | alkisg | It's not a package at all |
| 15:34.20 | alkisg | It's a series of installation instructions that you followed from github, |
| 15:34.29 | alkisg | so you need to follow the next paragraph there, for uninstallation |
| 15:34.49 | istrive | linux should have some sort of uninstaller tool... ;) |
| 15:35.00 | alkisg | It does, when you use the installer tool! |
| 15:35.07 | alkisg | If you don't use .deb, then... chaos |
| 15:35.17 | istrive | the linke you provided is 404 on me1 |
| 15:35.37 | alkisg | Maybe you included the , at the end of the page |
| 15:35.45 | alkisg | If so, remove it: https://github.com/abperiasamy/rtl8812AU_8821AU_linux |
| 15:35.50 | istrive | i tooke the extra comma! I'm in now |
| 15:35.56 | Bushmills | ,info cruft |
| 15:35.58 | judd | Package cruft (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: program that finds any cruft built up on your system. Version: 0.9.38; Size: 32.9k; Installed: 137k |
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| 15:38.00 | istrive | is this cruft safe to use? from a regular user point of view? |
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| 15:38.31 | istrive | I like simplicity but sometimes too easy messes up things and make harder! |
| 15:38.37 | Bushmills | it's not removing stuff unasked - you use it to list those files which don't belong to the installation |
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| 15:39.05 | istrive | got it! |
| 15:39.25 | istrive | better safer than sorry! I learned this is linux the hard way... |
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| 15:41.56 | Piraty | Habbie: since you were triggered: do you have any info? (build/bootstrap from source) |
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| 15:42.33 | Haxxa | Can anyone link me to htop for debian wheezy on a mips CPU? can't find in the archive. |
| 15:42.40 | Bushmills | there's also cruft-ng, apparently a rewrite. can't say how much different that one is. My guess would be that it'd be faster |
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| 15:44.42 | Habbie | Piraty, no, not really - i'd suggest looking at things like pbuilder and dpkg-buildpackage |
| 15:45.26 | istrive | I'm glad to get the help of experienced guys here, better the spend countless hours in google and mix info... Thak you all for the input! greatly appreciated! |
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| 15:45.34 | Piraty | those seem to be the tools doing the job, but how does everybody else (read: the distro itself) build everyhing from source ? |
| 15:46.30 | Habbie | Piraty, oh, this is what you want: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBootstrap |
| 15:46.35 | Habbie | not to be confused with 'debootstrap' |
| 15:46.51 | Piraty | yeah i know debootstrap, which does the thing just from installing packages |
| 15:47.07 | Piraty | i'm after building the packages, to understand the full chain |
| 15:47.24 | Habbie | this page is about what debian -wants- the 'start from nothing' procedure to be |
| 15:47.30 | Habbie | but it also tells you a lot about how it's done today |
| 15:47.32 | Piraty | thanks for that links, couldn't find it on my own appearantly |
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| 15:47.45 | Bushmills | will you compile the compiler from source prior to using it to compile components of the system? |
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| 15:48.04 | Piraty | depends on how the system is designed |
| 15:48.40 | Piraty | compiling the compiler using a given host's compiler *should* be straightforward, i least i expect it to be like this in the most known distro in the world |
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| 15:48.42 | Bushmills | then there'll be some chicken-or-egg problem somewhere - you gotta start with something which has already been compiled |
| 15:49.00 | Piraty | of course i won't binary-asm my compiler, but thanks Bushmills |
| 15:49.02 | Bushmills | unless you're entering initial bootstrap with hex keys |
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| 15:49.56 | Piraty | I'm familiar with ports-like trees that make it fairly easy to bootstrap a whole distro |
| 15:50.02 | Piraty | just curious how debian works |
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| 15:51.15 | greycat | Debian is a binary distribution. There is a base install, which is essentially an extracted tarball, and then packages are installed on top of that. BINARY packages. There is no compilation involved in the installation. |
| 15:51.43 | Piraty | i know greycat, but thank you for pointing it out |
| 15:51.48 | greycat | In order to CREATE a package that is written in a compiled language like C, there is a compilation step, but this is ENTIRELY separate from how packages are installed by the end users. |
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| 15:52.44 | Piraty | and this is what i want to know more of |
| 15:53.17 | greycat | !nmg |
| 15:53.17 | dpkg | The packaging tutorial (http://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (http://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. http://www.debian.org/devel/ |
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| 15:54.33 | Piraty | lol. "new maintainer's guide" from 2010 |
| 15:54.47 | alkisg | Not "new guide"; "new debian maintainer" |
| 15:54.47 | greycat | Guide for New Maintainers. |
| 15:54.50 | BCMM | Piraty: in response to your original question: all debian packages have corresponding "source" packages, from which the binary package can be automatically built |
| 15:54.57 | BCMM | so there kind if *is* something like Ports |
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| 15:55.31 | BCMM | (debian doesn't ship binaries that some developer managed to create on their own pc one time; the packages are built automatically from source on debian's servers) |
| 15:55.49 | Piraty | i assumed that |
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| 15:56.24 | Piraty | BCMM: you're talking about https://sources.debian.org/src/<pkg>/<version> ? |
| 15:56.35 | greycat | Also, the NMG actually has a datestamp of 2019-03-04 on the front page, below all those things that say "copyright 2010" and "copyright 1997" and so on, which were older contributions. |
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| 15:57.02 | Piraty | is that just the distfile mirror or is that the "ports" repo i could clone (wouldbe humoungous then)? |
| 15:57.12 | BCMM | Piraty: don't know about the exact url scheme; i just use `apt-get source` to get 'em |
| 15:57.49 | greycat | Piraty: each package is entirely SEPARATE. Each Debian developer (Maintainer) works in isolation. |
| 15:57.59 | greycat | There isn't a single tree of all the source. This isn't OpenBSD. |
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| 15:58.17 | greycat | Each package is built individually, in a clean build environment. |
| 15:58.25 | Piraty | greycat: so how do builds get triggered by the build servers then? this wouldn't be manually, would it |
| 15:58.37 | greycat | Ask the devs. |
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| 15:59.25 | BCMM | Piraty: what does ports contain? is it like gentoo's portage, which just has metadata and patches, with the upstream source ("distfiles") acquired separately? |
| 15:59.25 | Piraty | are there offiial buildservers producing the packages and serving them the mirrors for duplication? |
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| 16:00.21 | Habbie | Piraty, https://wiki.debian.org/BuilddSetup |
| 16:00.37 | Piraty | BCMM: yes. ports like things usually contain metadata + patches + distfile url + version + checksum. upon bootstrap, distfiles are fetched and pile up on the build server (could be put to a mirror for reproducability ofc) |
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| 16:01.25 | BCMM | Piraty: debian distributes distfiles as well, but it *does* keep them kind of separated. there's a .orig.tar and a .debian.tar for each source package. |
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| 16:38.32 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 16:39.00 | BCMM | are you trying to install in UEFI or legacy BIOS mode? |
| 16:39.05 | jelly | fraktor: is there more than one disk device in the machine? Is the system booting in UEFI or legacy mode? |
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| 16:39.17 | jelly | slow |
| 16:39.48 | BCMM | (if you haven't decided if you want uefi or legacy boot, it's eminently probable that you're sort of trying to do both at once) |
| 16:40.32 | BCMM | also, do you have any other operating systems on the machine? are you trying to dual-boot? |
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| 16:43.04 | fraktor | single os, UEFI, single disk |
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| 16:43.26 | istrive | one system is reporting error: failure reading sector 0x802 from 'hd0' Entering rescue mode... grub rescu> |
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| 16:43.42 | Bushmills | just for a laugh i checked for availability of lilo, and to my surprise it still exists in Debian |
| 16:44.02 | Bushmills | ,info lilo |
| 16:44.03 | judd | Package lilo (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: LInux LOader - the classic OS boot loader. Version: 1:24.2-4; Size: 283.3k; Installed: 693k; Homepage: http://lilo.joonet.de/ |
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| 16:45.46 | istrive | this was Debian Stretch, and I have the duplicity backup (encrypted)... Should I buy a new drive, reinstall the Strecth as a clean install and then restore the backup to it? |
| 16:46.02 | istrive | or there are a way arond it? |
| 16:46.15 | istrive | the are ways, |
| 16:47.20 | Bushmills | istrive: have you checked with smartctl about the full extent of the problem, or whether it's an isolated block which can't be read? |
| 16:48.17 | Bushmills | reasonable modern drives remap faulty sectors to a pool of spare ones, this usually before a sector is completely unusable |
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| 16:52.57 | istrive | and the disk was not even 25% used, so you think I could save the data from it? |
| 16:53.13 | Bushmills | (I've btw scheduled a monthly full test on relevant drives, the results are then kept with drive lifetime in drive flash, for quick consulting) |
| 16:53.32 | istrive | probable the laptop restarted without proper shutdown, that's what triggered the issue! |
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| 16:54.25 | istrive | probably, getting tired... |
| 16:54.31 | fraktor | oh sorry, bcmm: single os, single disk, uefi |
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| 16:56.21 | Bushmills | not too likely that a restart causes this. result of such an event is likely to just cause "soft" errors which are commonly ironed out by file system check during boot |
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| 16:57.25 | jhutchins_wk | Bushmills: lilo is very useful on non i386 architectures. I prefer it on my systems, but I got tired of fighting grub. |
| 16:57.41 | Bushmills | such errors occur often when the bearings start to wear out, resulting in head positioning getting inaccurate. but then, often more than just a single sector are affected |
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| 16:59.24 | Bushmills | jhutchins_wk: actually, not "still exists" as the webpage says "was restarted in June 2010" |
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| 17:00.02 | Bushmills | possibly one of the oldest packages in Debian |
| 17:01.53 | jhutchins_wk | Bushmills: Some of the Gnu stuff predates linux. |
| 17:02.27 | Bushmills | true |
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| 17:06.19 | alkisg | fraktor: boot from a live cd, and upload the output of parted -l or fdisk -l etc |
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| 17:06.49 | istrive | ok, trying that now |
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| 17:11.28 | fraktor | alkisg: will do one the download finishes |
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| 17:13.19 | Zarou | Hello |
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| 17:14.04 | spider_ | Hi, Zarau |
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| 17:14.22 | Zarou | :D |
| 17:14.59 | istrive | where do I go to download the liveCD from Debian Stretch, it's only showing Buster now! |
| 17:15.38 | greycat | !archive |
| 17:15.38 | dpkg | rumour has it, archive is a collection of files. 'tar', 'ar', 'cpio' are all archiving tools. This is *not* the same as compression, which is a separate operation. Debian Archives is the repository for old Debian releases, see http://www.debian.org/distrib/archive . For the package archive, ask me about <snapshot>. Old Debian <ISO> files are archived at http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/ |
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| 17:19.04 | istrive | that was supper! Thanks a lot. |
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| 17:29.18 | BCMM | fraktor: sorry, i was afk. did you definitely boot the *installer* in UEFI mode? did you see if the installer tried to install grub-efi or grub-pc? |
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| 17:33.39 | fraktor | I don't know. let me run the net installer again |
| 17:34.24 | fraktor | actually I do remember, I booted it in uefi mode |
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| 17:39.52 | rocketmagnet | hi everyone, i now had several different card readers, but with none of them linux worked for all cards, only 1 or 2 card types at max - how can i find a card-creader /sd/mini-sd/mico-sd/etc. that is compatible with linux 100% ?? |
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| 17:43.36 | krobzaur | Anyone know how to take a directory of firmware files and package it up into a simple .udeb file? Trying to modify an Ubuntu iso to include wireless drivers I need during the install process. Unpacked the original .udeb and added my .ucode files, now I just cant figure out how to package it back up |
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| 17:44.14 | TheDcoder | I am having a trivial issue, "apt-get install libgtk-3-dev" is not able to find the package :-/ |
| 17:44.26 | greycat | ,v libgtk-3-dev |
| 17:44.28 | judd | Package: libgtk-3-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 3.14.5-1+deb8u1; stretch: 3.22.11-1; buster: 3.24.5-1; bullseye: 3.24.10-1; sid: 3.24.10-1 |
| 17:44.38 | TheDcoder | I am new to debian, am I supposed to enable a repository to get the package? |
| 17:44.44 | TheDcoder | I am on Buster |
| 17:44.50 | Bushmills | try apt update |
| 17:44.55 | Bushmills | then try install again |
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| 17:45.07 | greycat | It's in the standard repositories. The question is, what did you already *do* to your sources.list that is making it not see the standard repositories? |
| 17:45.42 | TheDcoder | I did not make any modifications to the standard install |
| 17:46.19 | greycat | If networking was unavailable during the install, there's no telling what you end up with in sources.list. |
| 17:46.26 | greycat | !buster sources.list |
| 17:46.26 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 17:46.55 | TheDcoder | actually you guys are right, I did enable the other standard repositories through synaptic |
| 17:47.01 | TheDcoder | let me check sources.list |
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| 17:47.58 | TheDcoder | the sources.list file looks good, I have the standard repositories enabled |
| 17:48.05 | TheDcoder | but still cannot find the package :( |
| 17:48.19 | greycat | did you run "apt update"? |
| 17:48.27 | TheDcoder | I did |
| 17:48.42 | Bushmills | any strange messages resulting from that? |
| 17:49.00 | TheDcoder | 36 packages can be updates |
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| 17:49.13 | TheDcoder | not much more interesting than that |
| 17:49.21 | Bushmills | that's not one i'd call "strange" |
| 17:49.39 | Bushmills | ehm .... buster? that many updates? |
| 17:49.45 | TheDcoder | yes... so no "strange" messages |
| 17:49.51 | Bushmills | that's a tad ... unusual |
| 17:50.03 | TheDcoder | Bushmills: I installed offline from the DVD and haven't really updated anything |
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| 17:50.42 | greycat | so you *were* offline during the install... hence the broken sources.list |
| 17:50.48 | Bushmills | apt show libgtk-3-dev |
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| 17:51.19 | TheDcoder | greycat: I did re-enable those repositories through synaptic later, and I just manually checked sources.list as well |
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| 17:51.41 | greycat | put your sources.list on http://paste.debian.net/ |
| 17:52.12 | TheDcoder | State: not a real package (virtual) |
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| 17:54.18 | TheDcoder | greycat: https://paste.debian.net/1095656/ |
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| 17:54.57 | greycat | You only have TWO of the three lines. You're missing the main one. |
| 17:55.06 | greycat | you've got security and buster-update, but not buster |
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| 17:55.08 | Bushmills | bleh |
| 17:55.14 | TheDcoder | ...oops |
| 17:55.22 | BCMM | krobzaur: ubuntu isn't the same thing as debian. also, drivers aren't the same thing as firmware. |
| 17:55.53 | TheDcoder | greycat: any chance you can fork the paste and add the missing line? hard to find it in IRC... |
| 17:56.01 | Bushmills | contrib without non-free is pretty pointless. |
| 17:56.11 | greycat | deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main |
| 17:56.16 | TheDcoder | thanks |
| 17:56.20 | Bushmills | (those are packages with depend on some non-free packages) |
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| 17:56.37 | greycat | Bushmills: not always. some of them are installers for non-free stuff. |
| 17:57.02 | Bushmills | ah, as downloaded from internet, rather than non-free packages |
| 17:57.07 | Bushmills | yes, you're right |
| 17:57.11 | greycat | e.g. ttf-mscorefonts-installer |
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| 17:57.20 | BCMM | why is gcc-doc in contrib, by the way? |
| 17:57.30 | greycat | !gfdl |
| 17:57.30 | dpkg | [gfdl] The GNU "Free" Documentation License, considered <non-free> by Debian in some cases. Read the discussion at http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/debian-legal-200309/msg00169.html and http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/debian-legal-200304/msg00246.html . See the position statement at http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.html and resolution at http://www.debian.org/vote/2006/vote_001 |
| 17:57.44 | BCMM | somebody was asking about it the other week, and i couldn't work out why it wouldn't be in main (if it's dsfg) or non-free (if it isn't) |
| 17:58.01 | BCMM | greycat: so why is it contrib as opposed to non-free? |
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| 17:58.25 | karlpinc | BCMM: Probably the same reason the GFDL stuff is in non-free, but maybe it contains executable code that tweaks the docs to what's installed so needs to be in contrib? |
| 17:58.37 | karlpinc | (Random guess.) |
| 17:59.04 | TheDcoder | thanks greycat, it is working now |
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| 17:59.22 | *** part/#debian filmorevki1 (~ossie@softbank060131159161.bbtec.net) |
| 17:59.24 | BCMM | (also, iirc it doesn't have invariant sections, so i don't see how it isn't dfsg-compliant anyway, but that's not the point) |
| 17:59.32 | TheDcoder | strange to see how not being connected to the internet at the time of installation effects the default repositories |
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| 18:00.08 | no_gravity | Hello! When I press "CTRL+a f" in screen, it display "+flow". What is that? |
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| 18:00.39 | greycat | if only there were some sort of handbook, or manual |
| 18:01.20 | Bushmills | seems just a meta package in contrib |
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| 18:01.34 | Bushmills | depending on packages in non-free |
| 18:02.11 | annadane | screen man page: turns flow-control on, off, or "automatic switching mode" |
| 18:02.11 | Bushmills | as it says "This documentation is available from non-free part of Debian archive." |
| 18:02.16 | BCMM | no_gravity: https://www.gnu.org/software/screen/manual/html_node/Flow-Control-Summary.html#Flow-Control-Summary |
| 18:02.27 | krobzaur | BCMM: Right, but they pacakge things up similarly |
| 18:03.13 | no_gravity | BCMM: Read that, but no clue what it means :) |
| 18:03.37 | greycat | no_gravity: then ask #screen |
| 18:04.10 | BCMM | no_gravity: did you understand the words "flow control"? |
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| 18:04.39 | no_gravity | BCMM: Nope. It seems to handle "XON and XOFF chars". But I have no idea what those are. |
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| 18:04.51 | greycat | Ctrl-Q and Ctrl-S |
| 18:04.54 | BCMM | no_gravity: you know when you press ctrl-s by accident and your terminal stops working? |
| 18:05.12 | BCMM | that's XOFF |
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| 18:05.35 | no_gravity | BCMM: CTRL+s has no effect here. |
| 18:05.43 | greycat | Wow, dpkg doesn't seem to know ANYTHING about terminals. |
| 18:06.36 | *** part/#debian TheDcoder (~TheDcoder@unaffiliated/thedcoder) |
| 18:06.45 | BCMM | no_gravity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_flow_control |
| 18:07.20 | no_gravity | BCMM: Well, I give up on it. Thanks anyhow! |
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| 18:07.48 | greycat | how the hell does someone use linux for as many years as no_gravity has, and never encounter ctrl-s / ctrl-q |
| 18:07.51 | BCMM | no_gravity: basically there is an ascii character that allows the terminal to say "help, you're sending stuff too fast, stop for a bit while i process stuff" |
| 18:08.09 | BCMM | no_gravity: and in most terminal emulators, you can use a keyboard shortcut to send that character |
| 18:08.24 | BCMM | but *usually* you don't want to do that, so you get get screen to stop you from doing that if you want |
| 18:08.25 | no_gravity | greycat: Neither CTRL+s nor CTRL+q have an effect in any of my terminals. |
| 18:08.43 | BCMM | ^so you can get |
| 18:09.00 | BCMM | by the way, if you're just learning screen now, don't. use tmux. |
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| 18:09.03 | greycat | I opened an xterm right now, and ctrl-s pauses a command with infinite output. Out of the box. |
| 18:09.04 | Somebody293 | Hello |
| 18:09.11 | BCMM | screen is basically just for people who already know screen at this point |
| 18:09.15 | greycat | I used this to test it: while sleep 0.01s; do echo "$RANDOM"; done |
| 18:09.17 | Somebody293 | Bye |
| 18:09.18 | no_gravity | BCMM: I have used screen for years and years. |
| 18:09.21 | Somebody293 | Hello |
| 18:09.23 | Somebody293 | Bye |
| 18:09.26 | Somebody293 | Hello |
| 18:09.28 | Somebody293 | Bye |
| 18:09.30 | Somebody293 | Hello |
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| 18:09.31 | Bushmills | !xon |
| 18:09.34 | BCMM | no_gravity: heh, then carry on using screen i guess :) |
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| 18:09.40 | greycat | Bushmills: I know, right?!? |
| 18:09.40 | Bushmills | !xoff |
| 18:09.45 | Somebody293 | Hello |
| 18:09.46 | greycat | Bushmills: I did all of this in /msg |
| 18:09.48 | Somebody293 | Bye |
| 18:09.51 | Somebody293 | Hello |
| 18:09.52 | Somebody293 | Bye |
| 18:10.02 | Somebody293 | Hello |
| 18:10.04 | Somebody293 | Bye |
| 18:10.07 | Somebody293 | Hello |
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| 18:10.09 | BCMM | Somebody293: are you testing if we can read what you're typing? |
| 18:10.12 | no_gravity | greycat: True, CTRL+s seems to pause that loop |
| 18:10.13 | BCMM | or just tryign to get kicked? |
| 18:10.14 | *** mode/#debian [+q *!*@5.2.67.77] by greycat |
| 18:10.23 | *** mode/#debian [-o greycat] by greycat |
| 18:10.36 | greycat | no_gravity: You have just witnessed XON/XOFF flow control. |
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| 18:11.00 | greycat | ctrl-q is the other one (XON) |
| 18:11.07 | no_gravity | greycat: Interesting. Does the program actually get paused or just the display of its output? |
| 18:11.22 | no_gravity | greycat: Any key de-pauses the loop here. |
| 18:11.49 | greycat | the program will continue running and writing until it fills up whatever buffer the kernel is providing it, at which point it will receive a signal to pause it |
| 18:12.34 | greycat | no_gravity: well, that's abnormal. Maybe that's your screen setting. |
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| 18:13.29 | no_gravity | greycat: I see. I actually wrote an article about threads being paused because of full buffers and some side effects that became quite popular some time ago. |
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| 18:15.36 | no_gravity | Ok, so all is clear now. |
| 18:15.38 | no_gravity | Thanks a lot! |
| 18:15.39 | no_gravity | Cu! |
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| 18:31.50 | OS-50590 | hello |
| 18:32.02 | petn-randall | Hi OS-50590 |
| 18:32.25 | OS-50590 | gcc -o 39166 39166.c |
| 18:32.25 | OS-50590 | gcc: error trying to exec 'cc1': execvp: No such file or directory |
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| 18:32.35 | OS-50590 | help me on above error |
| 18:32.41 | greycat | OS-50590: apt-get install build-essential |
| 18:32.53 | petn-randall | OS-50590: Are you running Kali or Parrot? |
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| 18:34.30 | OS-50590 | i was tring on target machine |
| 18:35.07 | petn-randall | OS-50590: And what is the target machine running? |
| 18:35.53 | OS-50590 | linux 3.13.0 |
| 18:36.17 | greycat | Should I kick-ban him? Sounds like he's attempting to do malicious stuff to a system that is not his. |
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| 18:37.03 | greycat | The second google result for 39166.c is https://github.com/offensive-security/exploitdb/blob/master/exploits/linux/local/39166.c |
| 18:37.15 | greycat | That's enough evidence for me. |
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| 18:38.18 | brutser | anyone replied to my question? i got d/c |
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| 18:39.28 | im_saeed1 | hi |
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| 18:41.43 | pasiz | hi |
| 18:41.55 | petn-randall | greycat: Most nicks with OS-* are Kali users from their training seminars, they don't necessarily do anything illegal, though they just might be clueless showing up in the wrong channel. |
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| 18:44.39 | brutser | can i install the latest mesa drivers for amd from the backports? how would i do that? |
| 18:44.44 | im_saeed1 | how are you |
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| 18:49.00 | johnfg | hi folks |
| 18:49.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1563] by debhelper |
| 18:49.22 | petn-randall | hi johnfg |
| 18:49.31 | johnfg | Anyone know where apache2-ssl-certificate is? I.e., what pkg it's a part of? |
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| 18:49.51 | petn-randall | johnfg: What is that supposed to be? |
| 18:50.15 | johnfg | I have a cert for my hostname here, churchdebian.spirit.org, but need to generate one for www.spirit.org. |
| 18:50.42 | brutser | well if anyone can help me, i am trying to avoid using firmware-amd-graphics proprietary binary blobs and trying to find an alternative opensource, can i install Mesa in debian 10 and how can i make my amd work fine (i don't need gaming quality) |
| 18:51.01 | pasiz | johnfg: letsencrypt maybe? |
| 18:51.11 | johnfg | Generating an SSL certificate for Apache2 may be accomplished using the apache2-ssl-certificate script. This will ask you questions interactively then generate the certificate file appropriately. |
| 18:51.25 | pasiz | johnfg: then install apache2 package |
| 18:51.29 | petn-randall | johnfg: I don't think it's packaged for Debian. |
| 18:51.38 | pasiz | and get the script |
| 18:51.50 | petn-randall | johnfg: TBH, I'd just run those 3 commands yourself, instead of relying on a script. |
| 18:51.53 | joepublic | brutser, without proprietary packages, 99% of Radeons (100% of modern Radeons) are not usable except as framebuffer or vesa (i.e., no 3d acceleration, etc) |
| 18:52.00 | johnfg | it's actually referred to on a debian-administration page. |
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| 18:52.28 | pasiz | johnfg: do you need cert for public use |
| 18:52.53 | johnfg | For the backend of my typo3 cms site. |
| 18:53.03 | joepublic | the fastest full-featured video card for debian main (no proprietary packages) is, I believe, the Nvidia GTX 780 ti using nouveau driver |
| 18:53.06 | pasiz | johnfg: why not letsencrypt? |
| 18:53.26 | johnfg | pasiz: I'll check that out, thanks! |
| 18:53.28 | pasiz | automatic refreshing and no cost. |
| 18:53.48 | pasiz | integrates nicely with apache2 |
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| 18:55.31 | brutser | joepublic: so if someone told me that he know someone who is gaming with a similar radeon and Mesa + opensource drivers, he is just not telling truth? |
| 18:55.43 | brutser | based on that i was started to search for a solution |
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| 18:56.36 | joepublic | if he is saying that he does not have amd proprietary firmware and is doing that, he is mistaken. They won't work without it and amd is committed to opensource drivers--but not opensource firmware. |
| 18:56.39 | omarek | Hi I need help with a damaged GPT table after my power supply died in a suspended computer. |
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| 18:56.55 | omarek | gdisk session transcript here: https://dpaste.de/anHE |
| 18:57.14 | omarek | I've also created a backup with dd and gdisk's 'b' before I made any changes. |
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| 18:57.27 | joepublic | to "game" without proprietary firmware, you need a GTX 660, 680, 760, or 780 |
| 18:57.37 | omarek | Long story short is doing 'w' in gdisk brought me down from 5 problems to 3 problems. |
| 18:57.44 | omarek | Habbie: Are you here ? |
| 18:58.41 | pasiz | omarek: have you tried testdisk |
| 18:59.04 | brutser | joepublic: i have this laptop with coreboot'ed and also flashed the keyboard input chip, the coreboot is build with Discrete GPU support and AMD GPU AtomBIOS blobs - now i am installing any linux distro and it's asking for firmware-amd-graphics, which is totally against what i am trying to achieve |
| 18:59.13 | brutser | by the way, i don't need gaming < it's a virtualization system |
| 18:59.20 | brutser | but i need graphical interfaces |
| 18:59.21 | omarek | pasiz: not yet. Should I abandon the gdisk session without further changes? |
| 18:59.47 | pasiz | omarek: never work on only copy. Take copy with dd and work on that |
| 18:59.48 | joepublic | brutser, without proprietary firmware, a radeon is only a vesa or framebuffer device. |
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| 19:00.53 | brutser | joepublic: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/open-source-amd-graphics-now-awesome-heres-get/ < so i am mistaken the firmware and the drivers, |
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| 19:01.22 | pasiz | but with gdisk i think you are creating other problems. Testdisk could rescue your partition tables |
| 19:01.40 | pasiz | or may rescue, if you havent written new ones to disk |
| 19:01.40 | joepublic | brutser, the open source drivers do not work without the proprietary firmware. |
| 19:01.59 | omarek | pasiz: How do I work on "other copy" ? Restore the dd image to another device? |
| 19:01.59 | brutser | joepublic: so firmware-amd-graphics < is always needed? |
| 19:02.08 | brutser | or firmware-linux-nonfree |
| 19:02.09 | pasiz | omarek: exactly |
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| 19:02.17 | pasiz | did you dd whole disk |
| 19:02.36 | omarek | pasiz: Yes! turned out to only be 520GiB. |
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| 19:02.46 | joepublic | the nonfree firmware is a hard dependency of the opensource radeon and amdgpu drivers. |
| 19:03.35 | omarek | pasiz: gzipped on the fly. |
| 19:03.54 | omarek | The disk is 4TiG. |
| 19:04.08 | joepublic | if you are feeling really, really frustrated or exasperated, it means you are on the cusp of grasping the situation. |
| 19:04.25 | brutser | joepublic: :) |
| 19:05.05 | johnfg | pasiz: In order to install certbot, I need to enable backports. Would you recommend a backports.list in sources.list.d? |
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| 19:05.15 | brutser | joepublic: without the firmware and just using vesa drivers or something similar, what would be my user experience? |
| 19:05.34 | brutser | as i mentioned before, it's a qemu-kvm virtualization box |
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| 19:06.30 | joepublic | brutser, no 3d acceleration and perhaps fewer resolution choices. I have a thinkpad with a radeon/vesa driver and it only works 1027x768 meaning the icons look stretched |
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| 19:09.45 | joepublic | *1024x |
| 19:10.16 | omarek | What program do you recommend for testing a hard drive after a power supply failure? |
| 19:10.30 | petn-randall | omarek: Testing in what sense? |
| 19:10.44 | omarek | petn-randall: for damage? Data loss? |
| 19:11.06 | petn-randall | Data loss should be taken care automatically by fsck on boot, since the fs is marked as dirty. |
| 19:11.27 | omarek | I just tried fsck /dev/sdb1 and fsck /dev/sdb2 but it might not be foolproof. |
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| 19:11.31 | brutser | joepublic: i did not install the firmware on my lenovo laptop and installed the xorg-xserver-video-radeon (and also tested with -ati) < after few minutes the display goes 'coloury' like gray turns pink and whatever |
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| 19:12.13 | omarek | I'm working from a live debian booted from USB. My system hard drive got hit. |
| 19:12.22 | petn-randall | omarek: You can use `smartctl -t long /dev/sdb` from the smartmontools package to run a long selftest, and then check attributes with `smartctl -A /dev/sdb`. |
| 19:12.39 | petn-randall | omarek: Does that mean it doesn't boot cleanly anymore? |
| 19:12.58 | omarek | petn-randall: thank you, so far I've only done a quick stat display with smartctl |
| 19:13.38 | omarek | petn-randall: Yes, it prints a message along the lines "gave up restoring from suspend". My mobo died too. |
| 19:13.45 | omarek | motherboard. |
| 19:14.13 | omarek | I have the full message on paper and could type it in if useful. |
| 19:14.59 | pasiz | omarek: i think that's not relevant |
| 19:15.17 | petn-randall | omarek: "gave up restoring from suspend" doesn't sound like the relevant part of the error, it should skip over that and continue booting. |
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| 19:16.52 | joepublic | brutser, if you have inxi instaled, then `inxi -G` will tell you what driver(s) your video card is actually using. |
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| 19:17.24 | brutser | joepublic: will check that |
| 19:18.08 | joepublic | that's also one way to see whether you have 3d accelleration. (if it just says "MESA", you don't) |
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| 19:18.25 | omarek | petn-randall: it's followed by "gave up waiting for root file system device" |
| 19:18.51 | omarek | and "ALERT! UUID=blah-blah-blah does not exist. Dropping to a shell! |
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| 19:20.23 | omarek | pasiz: my only available device that can fit the whole image is a 5TiB USB HDD (and no SMART support, which the two HGST ones have) |
| 19:20.37 | omarek | pasiz: won't that be too different? I have honestly no idea. |
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| 19:22.20 | petn-randall | omarek: Is the root filesystem somehow set up, e.g. with RAID and/or LVM? |
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| 19:26.08 | se7en | I had a question about the calendar program |
| 19:26.14 | omarek | petn-randall: RAID deffinitely not, but I *might* have tried LVM a few years ago to try it out, with default settings by Debian installer. |
| 19:26.15 | se7en | On tomorrow's date it has this entry |
| 19:26.24 | se7en | Aug 14 First Unix-based mallet created, 1954 |
| 19:26.28 | se7en | What does that mean? |
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| 19:29.04 | johnfg | pasiz: Thanks for the suggestion. letsencrypt/certbot installed quickly, and I've got the cert installed, passed the tests, and functioning properly. thanks for the suggestion/help! |
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| 19:30.34 | crn | se7en, unix wasn't around in 1954. |
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| 19:31.06 | omarek | petn-randall: The test told me in advance it will be running for 107 minutes. I'm impressed. |
| 19:31.28 | se7en | crn: I know |
| 19:31.41 | se7en | That is why I am incredibly confused that the debian calendar says this |
| 19:32.12 | pasiz | johnm: u'r welcome, and now it's also something considered safe, in comparison with that self signed cert |
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| 19:32.15 | lf94 | Can you have a debian chroot with sid, and run X from it and stuff? |
| 19:32.18 | petn-randall | omarek: So you might want to test mounting your root filesystem in the live OS, and see why it fails. That's probably gonna be the same reason why it doesn't boot. |
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| 19:32.32 | lf94 | i.e. live inside a chroot for everything, and have your "top most" OS be debian stable |
| 19:32.45 | lf94 | Sounds like a really nice thing to do |
| 19:32.49 | crn | se7en, right. |
| 19:33.11 | petn-randall | lf94: To a certain extent maybe, though the level of isolation will be quite limited. |
| 19:33.35 | lf94 | petn-randall: the main concern would be deps not stepping on each others toes :) |
| 19:33.36 | omarek | petn-randall: I'm running it on my secondary, non-root hard drive now. I reckon it's safe to run on the broken drive as well? |
| 19:33.51 | lf94 | petn-randall: process isolation is not a concern. |
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| 19:43.15 | brutser | inxi -G show: Device-1: AMD Richland [Radeon HD8650G] driver: N/A >> Device 2: AMD SunPro [Radeon HD 8570A/8570M] driver: N/A >> Display: server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: ati,vesa >> unloaded: fbdev, modesetting,radeon resolution: 1368x768 >> OpenGL: renderer: llvmpipe (LLVM 7.0 128 bits) v: 3.3 Mesa 18.3.6 |
| 19:43.33 | brutser | joepublic ^^ |
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| 19:44.29 | petn-randall | omarek: Run what exactly? SMART long selftest? That's non-destructive, yes. |
| 19:44.35 | joepublic | llvmpipe is software-emulated 3d acceleration |
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| 19:45.28 | joepublic | "unloaded: radeon" is probably the result of no firmware |
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| 19:49.55 | omarek | gdisk doesn't let me exit without 'w'riting, but 'w' doesn't pass because it complains about errors. What to do? |
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| 19:57.05 | Bushmills | If I were you, I'd read what those errors are |
| 19:58.04 | jawa78 | Do I have super cow powers? |
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| 20:00.23 | Bushmills | depends on whether you have mooed today |
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| 20:03.29 | jawa78 | Bushmills: Thanks I was doing a demo of irssi for a friend. |
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| 20:10.08 | zbychuk | Hi, how to monitor openvpn server using monit. What is a working example? |
| 20:10.37 | zbychuk | I tried google, but can't find anything |
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| 20:11.09 | brutser | joepublic: after installing firmware-linux-nonfree > Device1.... driver: radeon v: kernel >>OpenGL: renderer: AMD ARUBA (DRM 2.50.0 / 4.19.0-5-amd64 LLVM 7.0.1) v 4.3. Mesa 18.3.6 |
| 20:11.12 | jhutchins_wk | zbychuk: What do you want to monitor? |
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| 20:12.01 | joepublic | driver radeon is now not unloaded, your renderer is now AMD ARUBA hardware. |
| 20:12.20 | zbychuk | jhutchins_wk: status of openvpn systemd service |
| 20:12.53 | brutser | joepublic: yea, so no way around that really, if i don't install it, i get really crappy display quality, even not good for running simple desktop ui in a virtual machine |
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| 20:13.23 | brutser | i guess we have to trust amd then with their firmwares ^^^ |
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| 20:13.51 | joepublic | My decision was to shrug and pick a different machine to do VMs on. |
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| 20:14.38 | brutser | joepublic: yea, but the rest of the machine is coreboot'ed and all the hardware is 95% opensource |
| 20:15.11 | joepublic | I respect that. It's rare for someone to go to all that trouble for a laptop with radeon. |
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| 20:16.54 | brutser | joepublic: maybe i can somehow make it to a point that it's acceptable, i mean , just vesa with some clever config should be workable? maybe? :) |
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| 20:17.19 | brutser | again, it's not that i will game on it, far from, only some linux distro's with a desktop running in vm's |
| 20:17.31 | brutser | and most of the vm's are servers anyway without desktop, but ok, i still need that |
| 20:17.37 | joepublic | it's possible that you could convince xrandr to pretend there is a different geometry. |
| 20:18.35 | jhutchins_wk | zbychuk: Network Manager can sort-of monitor it. nagios would probably be overkill. |
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| 20:19.16 | Bushmills | zbychuk: you want to keep it running in case it stops? |
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| 20:20.13 | Bushmills | testing for presence of pid file ought to be sufficient |
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| 20:21.34 | Bushmills | something like this: http://snap.scarydevilmonastery.net/kckf/ |
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| 20:22.02 | Bushmills | (name of pid file set in configuration accordingly, naturally) |
| 20:23.28 | greycat | For the record, even though nobody will listen to me, PID files are an abomination of a hack, and using them is fundamentally flawed. If you want to restart a process whenever it dies, either set it up as a respawning service, or just have some shell run it in an infinite loop. |
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| 20:23.45 | debish | Hi guys, this is not 100% related to Debian itself but I wanted to ask if any of you is using sway (window manager) from experimental by apt pinnning. If so, do you find it usable as a daily driver? Thanks! |
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| 20:24.25 | annadane | anything from experimental is basically never going to be usable as a daily driver |
| 20:24.38 | annadane | sway itself may be, perhaps one can compile from source, but experimental is use at your own risk |
| 20:25.24 | Bushmills | greycat: monit is a program do so such restarting. |
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| 20:25.39 | greycat | so is systemd, so are runit and daemontools, etc. |
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| 20:25.49 | Bushmills | it does need a clue when a service has stopped. it can probe ports, check presence of process and so on |
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| 20:26.10 | greycat | no, "checking for a process" means you are doing itw rong. |
| 20:26.12 | Bushmills | checking pid file is an option too |
| 20:26.18 | greycat | checking PID files means you are doing it wrong |
| 20:26.36 | greycat | checking ANYTHING AT ALL means you are doing it wrong |
| 20:26.37 | humpled | -* |
| 20:26.42 | humpled | oops |
| 20:26.44 | greycat | the parent knows when it died because the parent is already waiting for it |
| 20:27.09 | greycat | while true; do ./mygameserver --foreground; done |
| 20:27.12 | greycat | Blam, done. |
| 20:27.14 | debish | annadane, yep, I understand what experimental means, I'm basically asking if someone has tried that specific sway version from debian repos |
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| 20:28.38 | Bushmills | greycat, that's one way, but this disallows controlling the process with a program like monit, which is what zbychuk is using and asking about |
| 20:28.50 | greycat | See, I knew nobody would listen to me. |
| 20:28.54 | greycat | Oh well. I tride. |
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| 20:29.17 | humpled | i listened |
| 20:29.36 | Bushmills | appreciated. but you may want to convince zbychuk to cease using monit |
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| 20:30.01 | greycat | ,info monit |
| 20:30.02 | judd | No package named 'monit' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 20:30.07 | greycat | No idea what that is. |
| 20:30.22 | Bushmills | ,v monit |
| 20:30.23 | judd | Package: monit on amd64 -- jessie: 1:5.9-1+deb8u1; jessie-security: 1:5.9-1+deb8u2; stretch: 1:5.20.0-6; buster-backports: 1:5.26.0-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1:5.26.0-1; sid: 1:5.26.0-1 |
| 20:31.00 | greycat | oh, this should be hilarious... |
| 20:31.12 | greycat | https://tracker.debian.org/news/1041792/monit-removed-from-testing/ |
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| 20:31.37 | greycat | Bug #930637 |
| 20:31.38 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/930637 in release.debian.org (closed, moreinfo, wontfix, confirmed): «unblock: monit/1:5.25.2-3+deb10u1»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-06-17; last modified: 2019-08-10. |
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| 20:35.11 | greycat | I'm ... really confused by this bug report. It seems to assume some substantial background information that I do not possess. |
| 20:35.32 | Bushmills | sounds like a procedural, not a technical matter to me |
| 20:35.37 | annadane | i've heard of monit before and always thought it was some kind of bitcoin thing |
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| 20:36.39 | Bushmills | it's mostly a kind of service web switch panel |
| 20:37.17 | Bushmills | allowing to automate control with a script like language |
| 20:37.18 | greycat | well, no wonder it's full of security bugs and not being maintained. |
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| 20:39.34 | Bushmills | and it still made it into oldstable and before ... |
| 20:39.49 | Bushmills | what does that day about Debian quality management :) |
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| 20:55.10 | zerocool | ever since upgrading from debian 9 to 10, powershell does not work properly. for upgraded systems it mostly still works except when related to SSL (invoke-restmethod fails). At the bottom of this page: https://github.com/JustArchiNET/ArchiSteamFarm/wiki/compatibility#debian-buster-upgrade |
| 20:55.37 | zerocool | it says set the environment variable to use libssl 1.1, i have tried and this does not seem to work |
| 20:56.06 | zerocool | via /etc/environment, and also via systemd unit "Environment" directive |
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| 20:56.56 | zerocool | anyone have any ideas as to how to test this or set this? |
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| 21:10.34 | mns | 25 |
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| 21:19.38 | lavalike | hello, what does it mean if apt list --upgradable shows wget/oldstable,oldstable and wget/now ? |
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| 21:28.55 | Bushmills | I could have mentioned that probing ports allows reacting to a "stuck" process, one which still runs, but doesn't respond to port activity. That's a case where just restarting the process in an endless loop will fail. |
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| 21:40.02 | crn | locate libssl |
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