| 00:00.01 | tpanarch1st | sure, i use ispconfig, that in turn allows me to switch between php versions and in turn i run systems that run best in different versions of php |
| 00:00.15 | tpanarch1st | but i obviously want to keep as many dependencies going as possible |
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| 00:00.41 | themill | ick. |
| 00:00.47 | themill | So what's in your sources.list? |
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| 00:02.49 | themill | tpanarch1st: the relevant package for php7.1-curl for buster does not have that dependency |
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| 00:04.40 | tpanarch1st | themill: i dont understand |
| 00:04.42 | tpanarch1st | https://pastebin.com/HFziL7g8 |
| 00:05.00 | tpanarch1st | are you saying i cant run buster and have php7.1-curl? |
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| 00:06.41 | themill | tpanarch1st: none of them are sury.org |
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| 00:06.51 | dvs | tpanarch1st, use deb.debian.org instead of ftp.debian.org |
| 00:07.07 | tpanarch1st | oh i was just given that by jim over at linux |
| 00:07.12 | tpanarch1st | i've updated them from 9 |
| 00:07.18 | tpanarch1st | (stretch) |
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| 00:07.39 | tpanarch1st | sure, im none the wiser about how to fix this issue though? |
| 00:07.46 | themill | tpanarch1st: so do you have a sources.list line for sury.org? |
| 00:07.53 | tpanarch1st | interestingly not |
| 00:07.54 | themill | !show sources.list tpanarch1st |
| 00:07.55 | dpkg | tpanarch1st: Please pastebin the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list. The easiest way to do this is to pastebin the output of: head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*} |
| 00:07.56 | tpanarch1st | i did**** |
| 00:08.01 | dvs | tpanarch1st, is your /etc/apt/sources.list.d dir empty? |
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| 00:09.23 | tpanarch1st | dvs: metronome.listphp.list |
| 00:09.32 | dvs | there they are |
| 00:09.35 | tpanarch1st | i've already pasted my distros |
| 00:10.14 | themill | tpanarch1st: could you do what dpkg just asked? |
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| 00:11.02 | tpanarch1st | cat head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*} ? |
| 00:11.56 | themill | without the cat |
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| 00:12.58 | tpanarch1st | dvs: themill https://pastebin.com/R0eYE1EM |
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| 00:13.35 | themill | tpanarch1st: you're still asking for stretch packages in there |
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| 00:13.59 | tpanarch1st | ah right, havent updated that then |
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| 00:15.58 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 00:16.08 | tpanarch1st | themill: thanks for pointing that out - what's the best way of sorting that out please? |
| 00:16.26 | dvs | tpanarch1st, keeping everything in /etc/apt/sources.list ? |
| 00:16.43 | themill | tpanarch1st: replace stretch with buster |
| 00:17.06 | tpanarch1st | oh just simply replace the text where it says "stretch" with "buster"? |
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| 00:21.06 | tpanarch1st | yeah that doesnt work themill https://pastebin.com/6KWrSek5 |
| 00:22.45 | themill | sounds like you've got a typo in that sources.list entry then |
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| 00:23.11 | dvs | tpanarch1st, there's something wrong in the php.list file |
| 00:23.45 | tpanarch1st | dvs: sure, im not sure what or how to do this |
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| 00:24.07 | tpanarch1st | i guess its not as simple as replacing stretch with buster then |
| 00:24.31 | tpanarch1st | as themill had suggeste |
| 00:24.32 | tpanarch1st | d* |
| 00:24.45 | dvs | tpanarch1st, it usually is. |
| 00:25.00 | tpanarch1st | ok, how do i find the correct text |
| 00:25.05 | tpanarch1st | just googled not sure what im looking for |
| 00:25.11 | tpanarch1st | the sury.org website doesnt say much |
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| 00:26.11 | dvs | there is a buster release for packages.sury.org |
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| 00:27.57 | themill | tpanarch1st: what do you actually have in that file now? |
| 00:28.31 | tpanarch1st | in php.list i have deb https://packages.sury.org/php/ debian main |
| 00:28.43 | dvs | debian? |
| 00:28.53 | dvs | not buster? |
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| 00:29.02 | tpanarch1st | ah ok so should that say buster |
| 00:29.04 | tpanarch1st | woops |
| 00:31.31 | tpanarch1st | thanks! |
| 00:31.34 | tpanarch1st | just upgrading them |
| 00:31.46 | dvs | thank themill since he got it right! |
| 00:32.04 | tpanarch1st | indeed themill thanks! |
| 00:32.12 | tpanarch1st | so do you reckon this will fix this curl issue |
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| 00:36.14 | _Cute_Kitty_ | hi i installed wicd and it won't start. typing sudo wicd-client yields this error.... |
| 00:36.16 | _Cute_Kitty_ | ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on :1.63:/org/wicd/daemon/wireless: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Message recipient disconnected from message bus without replying |
| 00:36.17 | _Cute_Kitty_ | warning: ignoring exception org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name :1.63 was not provided by any .service files |
| 00:36.19 | _Cute_Kitty_ | ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on :1.63:/org/wicd/daemon: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Message recipient disconnected from message bus without replying |
| 00:37.42 | _Cute_Kitty_ | this all happened after i deleted .wicd folder in home, and the /etc/wicd folder |
| 00:37.51 | _Cute_Kitty_ | because i was trying to completely reinstall wicd |
| 00:37.54 | _Cute_Kitty_ | and now it's broken |
| 00:38.26 | _Cute_Kitty_ | i also purged and removed network-manager from my system so it's not causing any conflicts |
| 00:38.45 | dvs | apt --reinstall install wicd |
| 00:39.36 | _Cute_Kitty_ | same errors |
| 00:39.38 | _Cute_Kitty_ | just reinstalled it |
| 00:40.15 | _Cute_Kitty_ | except this time it's :1:68 error ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on :1.68:/org/wicd/daemon |
| 00:40.59 | tpanarch1st | dvs: do you reckon that will have sorted out that curl issue? |
| 00:41.06 | dvs | dunno |
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| 00:41.58 | _Cute_Kitty_ | maybe i should try purging, removing, autoremoving wicd from my system |
| 00:42.03 | _Cute_Kitty_ | idk "( |
| 00:43.34 | tpanarch1st | dvs: it allowed me to install them :-p |
| 00:43.43 | tpanarch1st | so god knows if that is the same as a fix? |
| 00:43.45 | _Cute_Kitty_ | dvs: are you a dev |
| 00:44.04 | dvs | _Cute_Kitty_, by trade but not for Debian |
| 00:44.13 | _Cute_Kitty_ | are you a genie? |
| 00:44.22 | dvs | I wish! |
| 00:44.34 | _Cute_Kitty_ | :( |
| 00:46.43 | tpanarch1st | reet people - thanks so much! |
| 00:46.48 | tpanarch1st | it is ALL sorted it would seem :) |
| 00:47.01 | tpanarch1st | save for my unfortunately accident earlier - hope that doesnt come back to bite |
| 00:47.11 | tpanarch1st | my portal user creates too |
| 00:48.57 | _Cute_Kitty_ | so anyone else have any bright ideas about fixing my dbus error for wicd |
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| 00:56.58 | LtL | _Cute_Kitty_: does it have a unit file? restart it. if its dbus a reboot would be needed and may work |
| 00:57.26 | _Cute_Kitty_ | what unit file |
| 00:57.30 | _Cute_Kitty_ | i've rebooted multiple times already |
| 00:58.06 | LtL | systemctl restart wicd[tab][tab] thing |
| 00:58.21 | LtL | oh then nevermind |
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| 00:59.00 | _Cute_Kitty_ | :( |
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| 01:01.04 | LtL | if it's a running service at the moment.. stop it. i just breezed by, i'd have to scroll up |
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| 01:01.55 | _Cute_Kitty_ | nvm i fixed it |
| 01:02.24 | _Cute_Kitty_ | with synaptic, i just marked all the packages that were installed under wicd search for complete removal, then fixed broken packages option within synaptic, then marked wicd for install |
| 01:03.13 | LtL | does it require root? i've never used wicd. this could be a polkit thing disallowing connection to dbus but i'm guessing here |
| 01:04.41 | LtL | gone eh. nevermind. |
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| 01:04.53 | _Cute_Kitty_ | yep definitely got it |
| 01:04.56 | _Cute_Kitty_ | thanksss |
| 01:05.07 | LtL | oh good :) |
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| 01:39.56 | _Cute_Kitty_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:39.58 | _Cute_Kitty_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHGTs1NSB1s |
| 01:42.27 | dvs | ??? |
| 01:42.33 | _Cute_Kitty_ | how was debian hard to install for the guy who created linux |
| 01:42.37 | _Cute_Kitty_ | i'm confused |
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| 02:03.15 | inter-link | how do i allow port 80 on debian? |
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| 02:04.55 | inter-link | all good found out how |
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| 02:51.03 | martigan | Hey looking for some help with buster on a T470s and I'm googled out so I'm coming here, 2 questions: I have a kaby lake i7-7600U and think that I need to disable hyper threading in bios but or update the microcode and can't find either of those two things. Is this still an issue? All the documentation I can find seems to be from 2017 |
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| 02:52.04 | dvs | martigan, microcode is available in the nonfree repo. |
| 02:54.07 | martigan | Q2: I'm getting some errors at boot "CPUn: Core temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled" and "CPUn: Package temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled" and when I check dmesg I continually see them as well. When I run sensors everything is at 38.0C max. |
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| 02:57.36 | magic_ninja | martigan, check temps in bios. their temps could be lower because they are throttled |
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| 03:01.10 | martigan | dvs, thanks for that. Would that be intel-microcode? And thats for all affected intel chips? |
| 03:03.13 | dvs | yes |
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| 03:40.43 | martigan | dvs, thanks a bunch, going to have a look in bios and see what I can find. |
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| 03:48.16 | mns | how would I tell chown to not traverse a network mounted filesystem ? |
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| 05:04.09 | martigan | No luck checking temp in bios, couldn't find the temp settings and from the lenovo forum I don't think you are able to. sensors shows "fan1 0 RPM". I think I may have found one of my issues, I'm getting the temp errors in dmesg still and the fan never kicks on or shows movement in sensors. Looked for a way to test the fan and came accross the fancontrol package. Would this allow me to manually turn the |
| 05:04.15 | martigan | fan on? Or any other trouble shooting advice? |
| 05:04.43 | martigan | about to cool this thing off by running it at the bottom of the pool if I can't figure these warnings out. lol |
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| 05:34.37 | newtodeb | hello guys someone got time to answer a question about a script for a screen session? This script works without problems on root but not on my systemuser where my session is running |
| 05:35.35 | ratrace | newtodeb: what does it do? |
| 05:36.33 | newtodeb | script screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/KEFVaiV.png , error message: https://i.imgur.com/dwAcKN4.png |
| 05:37.53 | newtodeb | the script itself opens up a terminal session with "script /dev/null" so i can attach to the screensession from another user, the best part comes if i change the "paragraphs" in the script i can use it on my systemuser but not on root, both use /bin/bash as default shell |
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| 05:39.30 | newtodeb | its not that i need it to run on my terraria user but im interested as why this is not working on my terraria user, the script itself is used with the shellcommand "terrariad attach" and its just a if function so i dont need to type in the screen commands all the time |
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| 05:40.41 | newtodeb | first i thought it is an permission problem but that cant be because now i copied it to my home directory and "chowned" it to my user's group and the user itself |
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| 05:52.48 | newtodeb | .208.123.6] has quit [Quit: vergissmeinnicht] |
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| 06:28.03 | Haohmaru | there was some software, perhaps like a webbrowser addon that "opens" every banner in such a way as to try to discourage those who put the banners there or some such |
| 06:28.11 | Haohmaru | does anyone know how it was called? |
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| 06:34.52 | Haohmaru | fills a firetruck with coffee and sprays the whole channel |
| 06:35.29 | inter-link | lol |
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| 06:57.45 | Haohmaru | no one knows it? |
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| 07:02.57 | ayekat | Haohmaru: what do you mean with "banner" there? |
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| 07:09.43 | Haohmaru | internet ads and stuff that |
| 07:09.53 | Haohmaru | you know some people use ad blockers to just hide them |
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| 07:16.58 | humpled | ads are great |
| 07:17.00 | ayekat | Haohmaru: and what you do you mean with "opening them to discourage those who put them there"? |
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| 07:20.40 | ayekat | also yeah, ads help people finance their websites - unless you find a better alternative, that's just how things work |
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| 07:23.17 | newtodeb | ratrace: you here? |
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| 07:26.07 | ZaZaGX | donations? |
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| 07:26.30 | ZaZaGX | i donated to ubuntu like 15 bucks once |
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| 07:29.29 | jelly | Haohmaru: AdNauseam ? |
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| 07:30.54 | Haohmaru | bingo, i think (sounds familiar) |
| 07:30.58 | Haohmaru | thanks jellium |
| 07:31.01 | Haohmaru | * jelly |
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| 08:58.25 | randompleb | I installed openvpn but running "openvpn" in terminal says "openvpn not found"? |
| 08:58.58 | alkisg | Try `su -` first |
| 08:59.36 | randompleb | yes i'm already root |
| 08:59.44 | alkisg | With `su` or `su -` ? |
| 08:59.45 | themill | that's not what was suggested |
| 09:00.16 | randompleb | oh wait |
| 09:00.20 | randompleb | it works :D |
| 09:00.32 | randompleb | alkisg, why does 'su -' works when 'su' doesn't? |
| 09:00.34 | alkisg | `su` doesn't source the root path (which includes /sbin) |
| 09:00.39 | randompleb | oh |
| 09:00.51 | randompleb | I'm pretty sure in other distributions it does? |
| 09:00.55 | randompleb | Like in Gentoo? |
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| 09:01.36 | alkisg | Anyone knows the factoid about su, to point him to the documentation? |
| 09:01.44 | alkisg | ,su |
| 09:01.44 | baraquiel | randompleb: I think it used to be the case in older debian versions |
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| 09:01.59 | randompleb | baraquiel, I see... |
| 09:02.15 | themill | You were always supposed to use su - to get a login shell if that's what you wanted; now you have to |
| 09:02.35 | randompleb | Yes, thank you themill, alkisg and baraquiel |
| 09:02.39 | alkisg | np |
| 09:02.42 | baraquiel | np |
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| 09:14.30 | ayekat | one can also `sudo -i` for launching a login shell - and simply `su` may "work" on some distros because some distros have merged sbin and bin |
| 09:14.52 | ayekat | (but since they've left the channel, this is just some random trivia into the void, I guess) |
| 09:15.13 | jelly | !next |
| 09:15.13 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 09:16.02 | alkisg | put a user password in the installer, and lost the ability to `su -`, but the worst side effect was that he lost the ability for "recovery mode" in grub too :/ |
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| 09:28.23 | ZaZaGX | hi |
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| 09:31.23 | inter-link | hi |
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| 09:48.26 | tmm88 | heyho everyone |
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| 09:49.48 | wondiws | On my ultrabook, I get /dev/ttyS0 ~ 3, so 4 /dev/ttyS nodes. Where does this come from? |
| 09:50.32 | inter-link | whats up tmiland |
| 09:50.34 | inter-link | oops tmm88 |
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| 09:52.42 | BCMM | wondiws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COM_(hardware_interface) |
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| 09:53.03 | BCMM | wondiws: the ibm-compatible PC always has four serial ports, basically |
| 09:53.06 | wondiws | BCMM, ofcourse I know what they are, but my notebook doesn't have any of those |
| 09:53.23 | wondiws | BCMM, oh, but this is the first time I get those nodes on a machine that doesn't have them |
| 09:53.28 | BCMM | wondiws: ... please actually look at the link; i'm not trying to tell you what a serial port is... |
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| 09:54.29 | BCMM | you'll tend to see four serial ports even if you only physically have one |
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| 09:56.20 | BCMM | it's a legacy part of the architecture from before plug-and play - there's just four memory addresses that the operating system is expected to know are reserved for serial interfaces (which may or may not actually exist) |
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| 10:13.45 | alkisg | Am I right in thinking that my buster-gnome boots to xorg instead of wayland due to lack of some firmware, and if so, which one? |
| 10:13.45 | alkisg | No "kernel drives in use" there: http://termbin.com/ojm2 |
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| 10:17.06 | alkisg | tests https://packages.debian.org/buster/firmware-amd-graphics ... |
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| 10:18.56 | BCMM | alkisg: iirc it falls back to xorg if accelerated graphics isn't working, and firmware is one reason accelerated graphics might not be working |
| 10:19.14 | BCMM | alkisg: you can check dmesg for that - the graphics driver will make some noise if it doesn't have the firmware it needs |
| 10:21.30 | alkisg | BCMM: I saw firmware messages in dmesg but not for amd; just for the network cards... I tested in an intel-based client and wayland worked though, so that must be it; thank you |
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| 10:23.48 | BCMM | not sure what sense of "client" you mean - a different computer? |
| 10:24.59 | alkisg | BCMM: no, sorry, I'm netbooting images into various computers (developing the "ltsp" package) |
| 10:25.14 | alkisg | *and yes, a different computer but with the same image |
| 10:27.17 | BCMM | alkisg: by the way, your termbin is 404 |
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| 10:28.19 | alkisg | BCMM: hrm; sorry; I ran this from the affected computer and I typed it; I probably typed a letter wrong :/ |
| 10:29.38 | BCMM | one nice thing about the debian pastebin is that you can view recent pastes without the url |
| 10:31.09 | uio | Hi. My computer has had a very rough time with 'Stable' this morning. I just 'upgraded' from 9 yesterday. I plugged in my usb to start my daily backup with deja-dup. The backup hung, Thunar froze and wouldn't open again. I stopped the backup process with the button provided in deja-dup and tried to start it again, but it wouldn't work. During this time I tried to open gnome-disks to see what might be going on with the usb drive. I entered the |
| 10:31.10 | uio | password at prompt, but nothing would come up after. I eventually decided to logout and back in, but this didn't solve any of this. So I shutdown, but the shutdown process had all these 'a stop job is running for Session 11' or for '16' or for 'user manager for UID 1001' with a little time counter behind. Then it said 'Failed unmounting /media/work/usb_backup' and 'Failed to send WATCHDOGs1 notification message: Connection refused.' Then it |
| 10:31.10 | uio | said that 'Reached targe: unmoun All Filesystems' and 'Reached target Poweroff'. It just hung at this last one and I had to do a hard shutdown, usb drive in and all. So, I guess I've mixed a lot in there but my quesions are: what is up with deja-dup? Did I corrupt the usb with hard poweroff? Also, what are all these stop jobs (never used to see them, or not for so long. I got them yesterday too, but at least it shutdown eventually). And the |
| 10:31.15 | uio | real question is: where is the real 'Stable'? |
| 10:31.23 | zamuro | !flood |
| 10:31.24 | dpkg | It's considered impolite to paste many lines of text on IRC. Please don't do it. Pasting one line is fine. Pasting two lines you can usually get away with. Pasting three lines will get you insulted. Pasting four or more lines will get you kicked. If you want to paste, ask me about <paste> |
| 10:31.33 | uio | Not a paste. |
| 10:31.45 | uio | Just so many issues. |
| 10:32.12 | ZaZaGX | too much to read |
| 10:32.13 | BCMM | zamuro: just a really long line, i think. irc has a maximum message length, and clients will break up long lines automatically. |
| 10:32.42 | petn-randall | uio: Sounds like you're either not running a clean Debian, or your hardware is corrupted. |
| 10:32.54 | petn-randall | uio: Or did you try to backup during upgrade? |
| 10:33.24 | uio | petn-randall, All was well in 9. Backed up before upgrade. Upgraded. 10 has all these issues. |
| 10:33.36 | zamuro | Might've just as well be a stackexchange question though. |
| 10:33.59 | uio | zamuro, Sure. |
| 10:34.22 | petn-randall | No need for that |
| 10:34.49 | petn-randall | uio: Can you paste the output of `apt-get dist-upgrade`, and `apt-cache policy`? |
| 10:35.55 | uio | petn-randall, apt-get dist-upgrade gives: numix-gtk-theme |
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| 10:37.18 | petn-randall | !paste |
| 10:37.18 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 10:37.46 | petn-randall | uio: Can you paste the complete output? â http://paste.debian.net |
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| 10:39.00 | uio | petn-randall, https://paste.debian.net/hidden/62ebb50e/ |
| 10:39.19 | uio | petn-randall, The first one just had that one line. |
| 10:39.45 | ZaZaGX | french? |
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| 10:40.24 | petn-randall | uio: I'm 100% sure that's not the complete output. |
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| 10:41.05 | uio | Also, I really don't think it's related, but just in case, 10 broke my sound input and output. I had to follow the bot instructions about removing the daemon for timidity. |
| 10:41.24 | uio | petn-randall, I'll try again, but that is honestly what I thought I got. Let me try. |
| 10:41.52 | uio | petn-randall, It's for sudo apt-cache policy, right? |
| 10:42.05 | petn-randall | uio: No, `apt-get dist-upgrade`. |
| 10:42.16 | petn-randall | It will either output nothing, or more than one package name. |
| 10:42.45 | uio | petn-randall, Oh, okay. Lemme check. |
| 10:43.13 | uio | petn-randall, Yes, sorry, more lines, but just one package. |
| 10:43.49 | uio | petn-randall, https://paste.debian.net/hidden/93e10e50/ |
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| 10:44.51 | petn-randall | uio: What does 'apt-cache policy numix-gtk-theme` output? |
| 10:45.45 | petn-randall | uio: Also, do you still have the kernel output in /var/log/kern.log from when it crashed? |
| 10:46.14 | uio | Also, on reboot, tried backup again and got error : https://paste.debian.net/hidden/1ad7a865/. Then removed usb and tried again and it worked. But I have little confidence in the files being uncorrupted... |
| 10:46.20 | uio | petn-randall, Let me check those. |
| 10:47.25 | uio | petn-randall, The first output: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/2c934960/ |
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| 10:48.01 | petn-randall | uio: What happens if you run `apt-get install numix-gtk-theme`? |
| 10:48.30 | z8z | Where can i find some documentation on how to set up with gnome-remote-desktop introduced in buster? |
| 10:49.02 | uio | petn-randall, Just a quick question about the kernel output: is it sensitive? What information is in it? |
| 10:49.23 | uio | petn-randall, No network info? |
| 10:53.22 | uio | petn-randall, For apt-get install numix-gtk-theme it's saying that some packages will be removed with autoremove and that numix-gtk-theme will be updated. |
| 10:53.34 | uio | petn-randall, Should I go ahead with the installs? |
| 10:54.39 | uio | petn-randall, So I did the autoremove and the update. |
| 10:54.48 | NetTerminalGene | guys, what NTP clock service does debian use? |
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| 10:55.18 | Habbie | NetTerminalGene, by default, [0-3].debian.pool.ntp.org |
| 10:55.30 | NetTerminalGene | Habbie, thanks |
| 10:58.58 | uio | petn-randall, Any thoughts? |
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| 11:01.29 | uio | Does 'Stable' become stable after a year or so? |
| 11:01.46 | uio | 9 was good and I'm wondering when 10 will get to that level. |
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| 11:03.43 | baraquiel | What do you mean uio by becoming stable? |
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| 11:04.13 | uio | baraquiel, Not having all these little (and less little) bugs to deal with. |
| 11:04.46 | baraquiel | Can you tell me what kind of bug? Because debian 'stable' is always meant to be stable |
| 11:05.04 | uio | This is terrifying: 'gnome-disk-utility fails to change LUKS password causing permanent data loss' from https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html |
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| 11:06.01 | uio | baraquiel, Oh, yesterday after upgrade I had no sound, today I couldn't backup or shutdown. That kind of stuff. |
| 11:06.25 | uio | Kind feels like I'm in unstable. |
| 11:07.55 | uio | I'm wondering if this kind of stuff tends to get solved as 'Stable' ages. |
| 11:08.10 | uio | Like, is oldstable more stable than 'Stable'? |
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| 11:09.36 | Bliepo | uio, if stability is really important to you, wait until the first point release: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases/PointReleases |
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| 11:11.25 | Bliepo | And yes, oldstable is more stable than ´stable´, but will only get security updates for about a year |
| 11:11.28 | ayekat | uio: you may want to use 'robust' in that context, to avoid confusion, since 'stable' usually (and especially for debian releases) means something else |
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| 11:12.07 | uio | ayekat, That's the irony of it when 'Stable' no longer really is... |
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| 11:12.31 | uio | Bliepo, That is excellent advice! I didn't know about that! |
| 11:12.39 | ayekat | uio: only if you assume stability == robustness, which is not true |
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| 11:13.41 | uio | ayekat, Come now, word play aside, calling something 'Stable' and then having no sound and not being shutdown makes one ask oneself if words have meaning. |
| 11:13.58 | Bliepo | I should mention it´s not guaranteed that everything will be fixed in the first point release (normally it is though). Always read the release notes to make sure. |
| 11:14.23 | uio | Bliepo, Interesting. I totally should have looked into that. There was just so much hype around 10 that I thought it would be good. |
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| 11:15.24 | uio | Did you guys see the gnome-disks losing LUKS data though? I have no idea how that made it into 'Stable'. |
| 11:15.35 | uio | https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html |
| 11:16.11 | uio | Bliepo, Your link is giving me '<The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.' |
| 11:16.41 | uio | petn-randall, Sorry to bother, just wondering if you were able to find anything. |
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| 11:17.40 | ayekat | uio: words do have meaning, but 'stable release' in this context means something else, so insisting that the word should mean something else is silly IMHO |
| 11:18.15 | uio | ayekat, True. |
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| 11:18.41 | uio | ayekat, Thinking that 10 is stable because it's called 'Stable' is kind of silly. |
| 11:18.52 | ayekat | uio: it *is* stable, though |
| 11:19.17 | ayekat | for the definition of 'stable' that is used for software releases |
| 11:19.43 | uio | ayekat, Sure. I mean if no sound, data loss and shut down issues are stable for you, then yes, 'Stable' is stable. |
| 11:20.02 | ayekat | stability has nothing to do with "everything works" |
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| 11:20.14 | oiaohm | Some of the problem is stable in computer development terms does not mean the same thing. |
| 11:20.17 | ayekat | sure, there is a correlation between stability and robustness (especially over time), but it's no the same thing |
| 11:20.45 | uio | ayekat, I get that. I just consider sound, data security and being able to shutdown to be fairly basic functions. |
| 11:20.53 | oiaohm | uio: so you did not have a machine that worked perfectly to start off with. Debian stable is that you have a machine that works and they they don't go and break it. |
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| 11:21.05 | ayekat | uio: I agree with that |
| 11:21.16 | oiaohm | sound working is not a requirement of stable unless it already worked. |
| 11:21.31 | oiaohm | Same with shutdown issues and other things. |
| 11:21.32 | BCMM | uio: basically "stable" means debian won't change stuff unless they really have to |
| 11:21.32 | uio | These things weren't issues in 9. |
| 11:21.40 | BCMM | uio: within a release. |
| 11:21.52 | uio | BCMM, So 'frozen' would be more fitting. |
| 11:22.10 | BCMM | uio: well, frozen wouldn't get security updates... |
| 11:22.12 | oiaohm | uio: frozen has another meaning. |
| 11:22.18 | uio | oiaohm, What is a broken machine? |
| 11:22.19 | oiaohm | uio: as in no updates at all. |
| 11:22.22 | BCMM | basically, breakage is inevitable; debian stable just lets that breakage happen at a defined time |
| 11:22.40 | uio | My sound was broken. |
| 11:22.48 | BCMM | uio: on a rolling-release distro, you might have your workflow interrupted by *changes* that aren't actually bugs |
| 11:22.58 | Haohmaru | then you'll get someone complaining "i dropped two debian10s into my vodka, and it's still too warm" |
| 11:23.18 | BCMM | e.g. some server you used changed its options and now you need to manually re-do the config file even though you didn't want to do that today |
| 11:23.21 | oiaohm | uio: basically frozen is what you get when you use a debian snapshot set to an exact day. |
| 11:23.48 | uio | Anyway, if you think 'Stable' is stable enough, wonderful. I'm happy. 10 has just caused me grief and I'm trying to get that solved. |
| 11:23.54 | BCMM | or the menus in your word processor got redesigned in the middle of you trying to finish some urgent work, etc. |
| 11:24.20 | BCMM | the idea is that, once you get it set up, it'll just keep working |
| 11:24.26 | uio | BCMM, Or a Thunar dying half-walf through a backup. |
| 11:24.37 | uio | which happened on 'Stable'. |
| 11:24.47 | ayekat | yeah, "breakage" is not necessarily due to a bug, but can be introduced through changes - the idea of "stable" is to avoid that sort of breakage |
| 11:25.14 | BCMM | uio: it's not guaranteed bug free! if you need that, just... stop using computers, i guess? because that just isn't how it works |
| 11:25.38 | BCMM | it literally just means that they'll try really hard not to introduce new bugs by surprise |
| 11:25.58 | ZaZaGX | but if i stop using computers. my real life problems are bugs |
| 11:26.15 | Haohmaru | squash them |
| 11:26.22 | Haohmaru | poison them |
| 11:26.52 | Haohmaru | rip their legs/wings off |
| 11:26.56 | uio | BCMM, So you would have no issue with having no sound after an upgrade in 'Stable'? That seems normal to you? |
| 11:27.03 | BCMM | upgrading software *always* comes with the possibility of new bugs. debian stable isn't a magic bullet that provides bug-free computing, it just lets you manage when the bugs happen a bit |
| 11:27.27 | BCMM | uio: is there an operating system where that *doesn't* happen? |
| 11:27.43 | ZaZaGX | like Ubuntu |
| 11:27.44 | BCMM | on a major upgrade? |
| 11:28.04 | Haohmaru | you mean crapbuntu |
| 11:28.05 | oiaohm | ZaZaGX: Ubuntu has more of these strangeness on adverage. |
| 11:28.11 | uio | Any thoughts on this whole shutdown issue? |
| 11:28.14 | BCMM | even if you're using the totally supported Windows that came with a computer, upgrading to a newer version often means hunting down driver issues... |
| 11:28.45 | Haohmaru | how bout when M$ decides to erase files on your HDD |
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| 11:28.56 | uio | BCMM, Let's be honest. I like Linux, but it does take more time for the average user. |
| 11:29.06 | Bliepo | Guys, this is getting way off topic. Stable != robust, though the confusion is understandable. Bugs aren´t nice, but a reality of life. Done. Less discussion, more trying to fix things. |
| 11:29.21 | uio | Bliepo, I'm good with that. Let's go! |
| 11:29.24 | tdn | I suddenly get a lot of these messages in syslog: systemd-journald[362]: Forwarding to syslog missed 4 messages. |
| 11:29.26 | BCMM | uio: seriously, on the issue of whether this is "acceptable" behaviour: maybe not, but that's just how computers are. *they are complicated and fragile*. |
| 11:29.28 | tdn | What causes this? |
| 11:29.46 | uio | BCMM, You're totally right. I'm wrong. So this shutdown issue. |
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| 11:30.10 | oiaohm | uio: shutdown issues have many causes. Does it shutdown in the end if you leave it be. |
| 11:30.19 | BCMM | uio: you get to decide whether you want all your breakage to happen at once, instead of a slow trickle of breakage. that's really all Stable can offer. |
| 11:30.20 | oiaohm | uio: if so it likely the systemd timeout thing. |
| 11:30.45 | uio | BCMM, Absolutely. |
| 11:30.52 | uio | BCMM, You're right. |
| 11:31.18 | uio | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:31.18 | uio | drive in and all. |
| 11:31.29 | uio | *oops line break |
| 11:32.18 | uio | I don't know if this helps: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/23efdf3b/ |
| 11:32.38 | uio | I used to get clean shutdowns. |
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| 11:32.48 | Mikjaer | I am building a disk-image for deploying on several machines, and i want to run a growpart and resizefs automaticly doing each bootup, so that it will grow the main partition to fill the entire disk, without any userinteraction. Where should i place / run suck script (from)? |
| 11:33.02 | uio | (aside, but can I down-grade back to 9?) |
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| 11:33.26 | alkisg | Mikjaer: the best place is in initramfs, where the disk isn't mounted |
| 11:33.29 | BCMM | uio: does that log represent multiple insertions of the USB disk, or was it just connected teh whole time? |
| 11:33.46 | uio | BCMM, Whole time I think. |
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| 11:33.59 | uio | BCMM, Wait. Let me check. |
| 11:34.19 | uio | I mean it hung, I forced shutdown, then rebooted and pluged it back in. |
| 11:34.34 | BCMM | uio: this might be a hardware failure that was just awkwardly-timed with your upgrade, then... |
| 11:34.34 | ayekat | uio: theoretically you can downgrade, but it's going to be a major pain, because you'd have to manually reverse all the (irreversible) upgrade script actions |
| 11:34.40 | ayekat | (so short answer: "no") |
| 11:34.52 | uio | ayekat, Alas. |
| 11:34.53 | BCMM | uio: because the log is showing the usb disk disconnecting and reconnecting |
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| 11:36.12 | uio | BCMM, Also, got this error with deja-dup: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/1ad7a865/ |
| 11:36.25 | oiaohm | uio: sysvinit would not get upset if you had unstable USB media appearing in disappearing. Systemd does. So that USB device could have been unstable for quite some time. |
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| 11:37.07 | uio | oiaohm, Is the usb just corrupted? |
| 11:37.34 | uio | oiaohm, Could that have caused all this? |
| 11:37.53 | uio | On the shutdown 'stop jobs' though: I had them yesterday with no usb. |
| 11:38.06 | uio | And having to wait a few minutes to shut down is... a pain. |
| 11:38.14 | uio | On a laptop |
| 11:39.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1535] by debhelper |
| 11:39.28 | alkisg | uio: alt+ctrl+del 7 times make systemd restart immediately; then you can more safely poweroff; or you can configure it to wait at most 10 seconds; but in all cases, reporting/solving the issues would be the best choice |
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| 11:39.50 | BCMM | uio: the filesystem is corrupted, but i believe it's caused by an actual hardware failure |
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| 11:39.59 | uio | BCMM, Okay. |
| 11:40.24 | uio | So: 1. replace usb drive. 2. Why the stop jobs. |
| 11:40.43 | oiaohm | uio: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-system.conf.html systemd default is to wait 90 seconds for any service that does not stop properly DefaultTimeoutStopSec= << this value. |
| 11:40.48 | BCMM | uio: if you look at line 1290 in your paste, the drive disconnects and reconnects two seconds later. this pattern repeats a few times. |
| 11:41.00 | oiaohm | uio: systemd like waiting long than sysvinit does for services to cleanly shut themselves down. |
| 11:41.04 | uio | BCMM, Is that abnormal? |
| 11:41.21 | BCMM | uio: unless you physically unplugged it and plugged it in again really quickly, yes |
| 11:41.36 | BCMM | uio: and these are USB disconnect - below the level of the actual filesystem or data on the drive |
| 11:41.41 | uio | oiaohm, So, the stop jobs today were because of the bad usb drive. I'll replace it. I also got stop jobs yesterday though. |
| 11:41.42 | oiaohm | uio: so basically jobs not stopping quickly with systemd is more sign those jobs are not functional right. |
| 11:42.16 | BCMM | uio: could conceivably be a problem with your usb controller or power supply, but realistically, usb sticks go wrong all the time, so it's probably that |
| 11:42.18 | oiaohm | uio: some of the stop jobs might have been because of the bad usb or they just might be basically problems. |
| 11:42.34 | oiaohm | uio: and systemd now makes those problems visable. |
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| 11:42.37 | uio | BCMM, What is more reliable than usbs? I'm using them for backups... |
| 11:43.16 | uio | oiaohm, Do I sense a Devuan-user? |
| 11:43.16 | BCMM | uio: no storage medium is particularly reliable (that's what backups are for...) |
| 11:43.21 | uio | oiaohm, lol. |
| 11:43.30 | uio | BCMM, True. |
| 11:43.37 | BCMM | uio: the thing is to notice when they fail... |
| 11:43.48 | uio | BCMM, Like this? |
| 11:44.05 | oiaohm | uio: I not a devuan user. I have learnt to live with systemd and found out most of the time it was showing me where database issues and other problems were comming from. |
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| 11:44.39 | oiaohm | uio: yes its annoying to have a stalled shutdown but that is really point at a issue in all cases I have seen it. |
| 11:44.47 | BCMM | uio: in theory the answer would be "a better usb drive", but i don't really know where to find one of those. USB stuff is such a "commodity" now that everybody seems to just be churning out barely-working trash... |
| 11:44.49 | uio | Okay. So I'll replace to usb drive. How can I make my use of 10 more smooth, because I don't have time to spend 3hr per day solving problems. |
| 11:45.03 | uio | BCMM, Gonna get Kingstons. |
| 11:45.14 | BCMM | uio: however, you can get a USB enclosure that just has a standard hard drive inside |
| 11:45.15 | oiaohm | uio: now when you say USB drive. You mean a flash stick I guess. |
| 11:45.19 | uio | oiaohm, Issues that I didn't have in 9.... |
| 11:45.24 | uio | oiaohm, Sorry, yes. |
| 11:45.35 | BCMM | that way, when the enclosure electronics dies, you can just rip out the hdd inside and get a new enclosure or install it internally |
| 11:45.44 | oiaohm | Normally i don't like premade usb drives for backup devices. |
| 11:46.09 | uio | When is first point release? |
| 11:46.10 | oiaohm | Also don't use a 2.5 inch harddrive either. Those are not being made well. |
| 11:46.11 | BCMM | uio: i would consider almost any SATA HDD to be likely to live longer than a USB drive |
| 11:46.42 | oiaohm | I can pull up video on youtube where they show a seagate 2.5 that has used the head to remove the surface of disc. |
| 11:46.44 | uio | BCMM, My strategy is two flash drives for backup. |
| 11:46.58 | jelly | blinks at "don't use a 2.5 inch harddrive" generalization |
| 11:47.00 | oiaohm | No disc surface no data recovery. |
| 11:47.30 | oiaohm | jelly: In the current gernation of drives wd and segagate 2.5 have that defect. |
| 11:47.52 | uio | Is there a tool that tests flash drive health? |
| 11:47.58 | jelly | I'd go with "don't rely on any single device if you value your data" |
| 11:48.29 | uio | jelly, Ie backups? Or backups on different media? |
| 11:48.51 | uio | Have you all had issues with 10? |
| 11:48.53 | jelly | uio: ie. redundancy of some kind. |
| 11:48.58 | BCMM | uio: not really. what happens behind the controller is all very opaque |
| 11:49.09 | BCMM | uio: it's kind of like an SSD but without any expectation of it actually being good... |
| 11:49.16 | jelly | be it backups, or raid or a distributed fs |
| 11:49.36 | oiaohm | uio: https://www.mwave.com.au/product/simplecom-se503-nvme-pcie-m2-ssd-to-usb-31-gen-2-typec-external-ssd-enclosure-ac22783 If I am going flash. I am likely to go a m2 to usb enclocuse of some form for backups. |
| 11:49.40 | BCMM | uio: (although in this particular case, i don't think the actual flash storage is your problem - it seems to be the USB interface) |
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| 11:50.09 | oiaohm | uio: why if the ports on the enclosure get damaged you can pull the m.2 out and put in in another enclosure no major issues. |
| 11:50.27 | uio | BCMM, Didn't have this stop job hang issue in 9. |
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| 11:51.17 | uio | First point release in a few weeks? |
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| 11:51.45 | BCMM | uio: ok, so it's not *completely* impossible that a change to linux is causing this problem. but i don't think it's likely. linux's USB stack has worked just fine for a *long* time now. |
| 11:51.47 | oiaohm | uio: if it harddrives I am normally using something 3.5 based with NAS drivers. Same thing aquired drive and enclosure as two different parts. |
| 11:52.21 | BCMM | uio: and this is *all* happening in the actual USB stack - even the USB storage driver is higher-level than this problem |
| 11:52.33 | uio | BCMM, I'm on old hardware: ThinkPad X61. |
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| 11:52.58 | uio | I'm lost. |
| 11:52.59 | BCMM | uio: i guess that slightly raises the possibility of bad usb port as opposed to a bad stick |
| 11:53.43 | uio | Bascially: how can I back up my data on my flash drives, shutdown properly and not spend 3hr/ day solving shit. |
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| 11:54.08 | uio | I'm seriously considering going back to 9. |
| 11:54.27 | oiaohm | uio: basking up on usb flash drives can run into port durablity problems. |
| 11:54.44 | oiaohm | uio: this still could be form of hardware failure. |
| 11:54.50 | uio | oiaohm, a better idea? |
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| 11:55.41 | oiaohm | uio: I guess you are mobile so backing down to a home nas server by network is not an option. |
| 11:55.52 | uio | oiaohm, nope |
| 11:56.16 | oiaohm | That is to attempt to save on port wear yes network ports are stronger than usb ports by design. |
| 11:56.37 | jelly | uio: does X61 have usb3 at all? |
| 11:56.38 | BCMM | uio: if you decide to go back to 9, please at least check dmesg output for signs of USB issues... just in case you've found a way to mask the failure of your backup drive |
| 11:56.49 | uio | jelly, I don't think so... |
| 11:57.16 | jelly | uio: if it has expresscard, you can buy an usb3 controller to get decent speeds out of usb |
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| 11:57.39 | oiaohm | And with jelly comment have replacable ports. |
| 11:57.53 | BCMM | i still think it's most likely that the flash drive is just dead... |
| 11:57.55 | uio | BCMM, There is a ton of output... |
| 11:57.58 | jelly | I used to have... wait, I still have a card with e-SATA ports, but that's pretty much obsolete now |
| 11:58.14 | uio | BCMM, But that does NOT explain the stop job hangs! |
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| 11:58.25 | uio | from yesterday. |
| 11:59.09 | oiaohm | uio: DefaultTimeoutStopSec= value I point to before could be reduce to a smaller value to copy the behavour of sysvinit. |
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| 11:59.39 | oiaohm | uio: default systemd uses is 90 seconds per problem and that adds up. |
| 12:00.08 | BCMM | oiaohm: debian 9 used systemd too, didn't it? |
| 12:00.23 | uio | Oh 10. Why. |
| 12:00.52 | uio | BCMM, Should I paste the output of dmesg? |
| 12:01.04 | BCMM | uio: is this new dmesg output |
| 12:01.48 | oiaohm | BCMM: on systems that had been upgraded from prior versions I have seen debian 9 still be sysvinit where clean installs were systemd. |
| 12:01.59 | oiaohm | BCMM: 10 kind of changes that. |
| 12:02.04 | BCMM | ah, didn't know that |
| 12:02.15 | uio | BCMM, https://paste.debian.net/hidden/9522869d/ |
| 12:02.33 | uio | Would choosing an older kernel in Grub help? |
| 12:03.35 | BCMM | uio: that's largely the same output you pasted here https://paste.debian.net/hidden/23efdf3b/ |
| 12:03.50 | uio | BCMM, Sorry bout that. |
| 12:03.52 | BCMM | and, as i said, it appears to show an unstable usb connection |
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| 12:04.09 | BCMM | which, as i said, is practically certain to be a hardware issue |
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| 12:04.40 | Haohmaru | i've had "brand new" usb3 flash sticks get super hot and die in random ways after you merely write one ISO onto them |
| 12:04.53 | jelly | hw issue on a 14 year old laptop?!? |
| 12:04.58 | uio | BCMM, Hardware usb, or hardware usb port? |
| 12:05.04 | BCMM | uio: could be either |
| 12:05.28 | uio | hm issues that I didn't get in 9... |
| 12:05.42 | BCMM | i'd usually say usb stick for sure, because they're *horrible*, but if it's really a 14 year old laptop, all bets are off really |
| 12:05.52 | jelly | Haohmaru: sadly I've also seen a 64GB usb3 stick behave in similar ways, heats up and disconnects (from tv, in this case) for hours |
| 12:05.54 | uio | wonders if most people really have time to deal with this kind of stuff. |
| 12:06.18 | uio | BCMM, How can I confirm? |
| 12:06.27 | oiaohm | uio: the answer is mostly no. But most people don't keep machines as old as you either. |
| 12:06.33 | BCMM | uio: try the stick on another computer, or a different stick in the same port. |
| 12:06.35 | jelly | do people designing these know what "heat" and "dissipation" mean in the same sentence |
| 12:06.45 | uio | finds it amusing that the problem is never Debian. |
| 12:06.51 | BCMM | uio: if you do the latter, maybe mount it read-only so you don't corrupt another filesystem. |
| 12:06.54 | Haohmaru | uio i've not had much problems with debian itself, once you configure it |
| 12:06.57 | uio | BCMM, I got it to work after. |
| 12:07.10 | uio | Haohmaru, How many hours? |
| 12:07.12 | Haohmaru | i've had problems with crap hardware tho |
| 12:07.14 | jelly | uio: did you happen to be able to boot 4.9 kernel from stretch, I did not track your issue |
| 12:07.31 | uio | jelly, No, turns out the problem is timidity. |
| 12:07.42 | uio | Or its daemon more specifically. |
| 12:07.46 | Haohmaru | like, super old hardware that doesn't wanna "suspend" properly, or crapvidia cards, etc.. |
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| 12:08.03 | jelly | get rid of timidity unless you really need a sw midi |
| 12:08.05 | oiaohm | uio: I have had the odd kernel problem on really old hardware that no one is testing any more. Also with USB connection isuses they can be nicely intermit ie you just happened to push the usb in x direction now everything is stabily connected. |
| 12:08.28 | oiaohm | uio: so if kernel change fixed anything that is only a maybe. |
| 12:09.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1529] by debhelper |
| 12:09.05 | BCMM | uio: please don't see this as just "defending debian" or whatever. i'm sure you have some problems with debian too, but *i am trying to warn you* that the medium you're using for backups is not stable! |
| 12:09.28 | oiaohm | uio: old hardware make trouble shooting a lot hardware when the person who is doing it is not skilled enough to open up the device and check that none of the connections are bust. |
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| 12:10.10 | alkisg | also notes that old hardware sometimes doesn't work in new kernels, and using older kernels/distros is required |
| 12:10.14 | oiaohm | uio: comes very hard because we have many possibleity that are horrible intermit. |
| 12:10.17 | alkisg | (.e.g sound) |
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| 12:11.09 | BCMM | i continue to think that it's even more likely that the usb stick is worn out as that the usb port is |
| 12:11.52 | Haohmaru | i generally didn't experience anything strange when upgrading from 9 to 10, except the weird "Resuming from hybernation" message that i get on every debian10 so far |
| 12:11.56 | BCMM | those little usb sticks are basically designed for casually sharing a few documents with a colleague or whatever. it's *normal* for them to die quickly if they're used for regular, large writes (like backups) |
| 12:11.59 | oiaohm | BCMM: the USB ports in that laptop are on a subboard as well so the connection between motherboard and subboard with the usb ports on could have got damaged over time. |
| 12:12.06 | uio | Also it's not 14 years old. |
| 12:12.09 | uio | 12 or 13. |
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| 12:12.42 | uio | 11 even. |
| 12:13.28 | oiaohm | uio: I have had a 2 year old laptop with no working stable usb ports on either side because the 2 subboards with the usb ports on had got hit and the connection to main board got cracked. |
| 12:13.37 | uio | jelly, Got rid of the dameon. The bug has been around since 2018, but he maintainer hasn't gotten the chance to address it yet. We'll see. |
| 12:13.51 | uio | oiaohm, Ouch! |
| 12:14.11 | oiaohm | uio: when I say old I don't mean that it has to be insanely old. Old in either time or had a hard life. |
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| 12:14.35 | uio | oiaohm, It was almost mint when I got it in January! |
| 12:14.42 | uio | Zero wear. |
| 12:15.08 | Haohmaru | oh, actually there is one thing, in xfce4-panel, the memory/cpu meters changed their shapes from rectangles to fuggly ellipses |
| 12:15.11 | oiaohm | uio: impacted stick on usb port causing internal cracks leaves no external case marks. |
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| 12:15.30 | oiaohm | uio: so laptop can look perfect mint and not a single port works. |
| 12:15.54 | uio | Conclusion: 1) Avoid new 'Satable'. 2) Replace backup flash drive. 3) Hope that stop jobs don't come back. |
| 12:15.56 | oiaohm | uio: sound that is likely kernel version issue. |
| 12:16.09 | uio | oiaohm, Nope. Timidity. |
| 12:16.22 | uio | Can 3) be addressed? |
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| 12:17.34 | uio | There's a bot on timidity and pulseaudio here. |
| 12:17.42 | uio | I don't know how to call it. |
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| 12:18.38 | uio | Best flash drive brands? |
| 12:18.46 | uio | Kingston? Sandisk? |
| 12:19.21 | oiaohm | uio: with me its a extenal housing with adata or better m.2 inside. |
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| 12:20.00 | oiaohm | uio: again it because I am aware USB ports do crack their solder and I want to have a simple path to get my data back. |
| 12:20.24 | uio | oiaohm, I'll have three copies of the data, so not too worried. |
| 12:21.28 | oiaohm | uio: I do data recovery. I have seen a person successuflly bugger up a 6 copies of data on usbkey by getting hit at the wrong time while trying to access so braking the connection. |
| 12:21.35 | oiaohm | So had to solder the ports back on. |
| 12:21.59 | oiaohm | so I am kind a lot lower trusting. |
| 12:22.36 | oiaohm | uio: that was 6 usb keys all buggered. |
| 12:22.47 | oiaohm | Due to combinations of bad luck. |
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| 12:51.37 | Guest35220 | hello, is this debian help chan? |
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| 12:51.51 | ayekat | yes |
| 12:52.42 | Guest35220 | gr8 :) I just installed, love it, wanna keep it - but how do i add myself to sudoers and add another user? |
| 12:53.36 | ayekat | Guest35220: you can add yourself to the `sudo` group (I believe by default users in that group have permission to use sudo) |
| 12:53.58 | dvs | Guest35220, adduser <user> <group> |
| 12:54.00 | dvs | as root |
| 12:54.35 | Guest35220 | i figured that, but when i open terminal and try to do that i am told im not in sudoers group |
| 12:55.01 | Guest35220 | "is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported." |
| 12:55.14 | dvs | Guest35220, if you just added yourself to a group, you have to logout and login again to have it take effect. |
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| 12:57.57 | tdn | I just got this I/O error in dmesg on one of my mdadm raid-1 arrays. Is this something serious? Or a harmless error? [304300.084270] Buffer I/O error on dev dm-2, logical block 0, async page read |
| 12:58.10 | Freetux_ | hello |
| 12:58.28 | ayekat | Guest35220: note that if you can't run sudo yet, you'll have to use `su` to get a root shell (if it's about adding yourself to the `sudo` group) |
| 12:58.59 | Guest35220 | guys, when i type: sudo adduser ww - im asked for password; i type my password and im told "(me) is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported." |
| 12:59.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1535] by debhelper |
| 12:59.38 | ayekat | Guest35220: yes, you can't use sudo to add yourself to the sudo group - there's a chicken and egg problem - open a root shell and run adduser as root |
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| 13:00.13 | dvs | Guest35220, yes, you have to login as root to add yourself to the sudo group. |
| 13:00.19 | Guest35220 | there are no other users, i just installed, set root password and created my own user with pass, thats all. clearly my own user is not in sudoers group |
| 13:00.36 | ayekat | Guest35220: yes, so log in as root (or use `su` to open a root shell) |
| 13:00.38 | jelly | Guest35220: use "su -" to open a root shell. |
| 13:00.47 | jelly | not just "su" |
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| 13:01.21 | Guest35220 | yes now were talkin :) thanks :) |
| 13:01.30 | Guest35220 | now i'm as root |
| 13:01.52 | ayekat | hmm... if adduser is in an sbin directory, then probably `su -` is better indeed |
| 13:01.54 | jelly | if you want to add yourself to sudo group anyway, "adduser yourusername sudo" but activation of that requires you to log off and log on again |
| 13:02.15 | jelly | ayekat: where else would it be |
| 13:02.28 | jelly | it's something only an admin can do |
| 13:02.54 | Guest35220 | so to add myself to sudoers group i do: usermod -aG sudo (me) ? |
| 13:03.08 | ayekat | that would work, yes |
| 13:03.12 | dvs | Guest35220, adduser <user> sudo |
| 13:03.17 | ayekat | or using adduser |
| 13:03.18 | dvs | we already said this |
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| 13:03.48 | Guest35220 | yes dvs, i knew that, i had problem getting to root acct |
| 13:04.13 | Guest35220 | su didnt work, i didnt knew i had to type "su -" |
| 13:04.29 | ayekat | Guest35220: no, that was for the "how do I add a user to a group" question |
| 13:04.37 | ayekat | not "how do I become root" |
| 13:05.19 | BCMM | Guest35220: that changed in debian 10. it might be worth reading https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster |
| 13:05.24 | Guest35220 | ok sorry, im a noob and my descriptions may not be accurate :/ |
| 13:05.52 | Guest35220 | at lkeast i didn't ask for Administrator acct access, huh? ;) |
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| 13:07.50 | ayekat | Guest35220: to be fair, I gave the misleading instruction to run `su` instead of `su -`, so you can blame me for that |
| 13:08.53 | Guest35220 | now the part i couldnt find in manpages either: i just want to add a 'common' user with no priviledges at all, simply for opening web browser for anyone in the house (this pc will be connected to tv) - i don't want any passwords for this new user, so do i just press enter when asked for new password? |
| 13:10.29 | BCMM | Guest35220: if you do that, i think you'll get a "blank password", not no password (i.e. the display manager will still prompt you to enter a password, and you'll need to press enter) |
| 13:10.37 | Guest35220 | ayekat i'm honestly greatful for the help, no worries |
| 13:11.05 | Guest35220 | BCMM so how do i set it up? make password now and then remove it later? |
| 13:11.09 | BCMM | that is, assuming whatever software you're using to set the password actually lets you do that - there might be a password length requirement |
| 13:11.15 | Bushmills | Guest35220: as default user, logged into automatically maybe? |
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| 13:12.19 | Guest35220 | yes Bushmills, thats exactly what i want - just so anyone can click on the name without any password and log in |
| 13:12.29 | Bushmills | check out nodm |
| 13:12.35 | Bushmills | !nodm |
| 13:12.35 | dpkg | In systemd, "systemctl set-default multi-user.target", or remove the DM package(s) with "aptitude remove gdm3 kdm lightdm lxdm nodm sddm slim wdm xdm". "echo false >/etc/X11/default-display-manager" will also disable the DM, or just hit ctrl-alt-fN to get to a console. nodm is the name of a minimal/automatic display manager (https://github.com/spanezz/nodm). |
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| 13:13.40 | Bushmills | that's even without clicking on a name. machine will boot into that user without interaction |
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| 13:14.17 | Guest35220 | im at adding this "ww" user (for web browsing as i said); when i tried just pressing enter at "New password:" im told "No password supplied" |
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| 13:15.03 | uio | How can I find out when 10.1 will come out? |
| 13:15.20 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:15.23 | Guest35220 | Bushmills not exactly what im trying to setup with logins; i do want the users selection page first, so i could chose my own user to read mail or watch pron too ;) |
| 13:15.35 | Bliepo | Try --disabled-password |
| 13:15.44 | Guest35220 | in where? |
| 13:16.07 | Bliepo | adduser ww --disabled-password |
| 13:16.31 | Guest35220 | passwd: password updated successfully |
| 13:16.33 | uio | greycat, ?? |
| 13:16.37 | Bushmills | Guest35220: start a second X session for you, switch between them |
| 13:17.06 | uio | Is there a planned date? |
| 13:17.31 | Guest35220 | hold on, im asked for "Room Number" now - what is this? |
| 13:18.06 | greycat | sorry, uio, I'm at work right now, and there are no chickens nearby that I can ritually sacrifice to perform the divination rituals to foresee the days to come |
| 13:18.18 | Guest35220 | lol |
| 13:18.47 | uio | greycat, I don't get why you're being sarcastic. |
| 13:18.50 | BCMM | uio: i don't think they're actually scheduled |
| 13:18.56 | BCMM | (and yeah, greycat is just like that) |
| 13:18.56 | Bushmills | coffee grounds? tea leaves? work compatible |
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| 13:19.16 | uio | I mean, someone must know when they happen. They don't just come out of nowhere. |
| 13:19.22 | Guest35220 | uio - if i can cut in and quote the classic: "Debian 10.0 should be enough for everyone" :P |
| 13:19.22 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 13:19.46 | greycat | So today is going to be one of those days. |
| 13:19.52 | dvs | yup |
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| 13:19.59 | Bushmills | uio, http://debian.org will tell you |
| 13:20.05 | uio | Guest35220, That's a good one. |
| 13:20.54 | Guest35220 | thx uio ;) guys what is this "Room Number []:" im asked now |
| 13:21.05 | greycat | sounds like part of the GECOS field |
| 13:21.15 | greycat | are you adding a user? |
| 13:21.32 | dvs | Guest35220, that is just info that shows up when asskiing about the user. It's not important. |
| 13:21.51 | jelly | Guest35220: you can just leave it empty |
| 13:21.57 | SPiRiT_ | Guest35220, you need to type your username in the command: usermod -aG sudo <username> --- because it looks like you are creating a new one :) |
| 13:22.00 | BCMM | Guest35220: you can leave that blank. that's just information that other users can look up; it doesn't make a lot of sense unless you've got a traditional unix system with dozens of users all over the department |
| 13:22.03 | Guest35220 | shoot when i copy it with ctrl-c it interpreted it as instruction lol now i got "Room Number []: ^Cadduser: `/bin/chfn ww' exited from signal 2. Exiting." |
| 13:22.23 | BCMM | Guest35220: ctrl-c means something else in the terminal |
| 13:22.23 | greycat | Go back and do it again, and this time just hit Enter instead of Ctrl-C. |
| 13:22.51 | Guest35220 | ok |
| 13:22.52 | BCMM | Guest35220: it ends the current program, basically (it meant that before ctrl-c for copy was a thing) |
| 13:22.58 | greycat | Ah, you thought Ctrl-C was copy. Heh. ;-) |
| 13:23.09 | Guest35220 | years of windoze, man... |
| 13:23.14 | greycat | Ctrl-C in the Unix shell means "Interrupt", or "kill this process". |
| 13:23.15 | Bushmills | "cancel" |
| 13:23.19 | dvs | thank goodness he didn't do undo! |
| 13:23.32 | uio | Going for reboot to see if stop jobs are going to pop up again. |
| 13:23.35 | BCMM | greycat: i would avoid "kill" because that refers specifically to a *different* signal |
| 13:23.36 | Guest35220 | what, ctrl+v is undo? |
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| 13:23.56 | kreyren | dpkg: ping |
| 13:23.57 | dpkg | pong |
| 13:24.02 | greycat | Copy/paste in the X window system is done entirely with the mouse. However, to make life easier for Windows refugees, Shift+Insert works as paste in *some* applications. Not all. |
| 13:24.07 | kreyren | http://ix.io/1SOA any ideas why is my system unable to load nvidia? |
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| 13:24.30 | jelly | kreyren: is your system a debian stable installation? |
| 13:24.30 | BCMM | greycat: ctrl-c/ctrl-v works in almost everything. x has a clipboard as well a primary selection. what are you talking about? |
| 13:25.08 | greycat | Ctrl-v in Unix terminals is "literal next", which means that whatever you press AFTER the Ctrl-v is not interpreted by the terminal driver, but simply passed on as a literal keystroke. So, "Ctrl-V Ctrl-C" would insert the ASCII 0x03 byte as input, instead of doing what Ctrl-C normally does (kill the process). |
| 13:25.14 | BCMM | and it's not a windows keystroke originally, it's a PARC thing (like almost anything shared between mac and windows) |
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| 13:25.51 | kreyren | jelly, sure http://ix.io/1SOE |
| 13:26.29 | kreyren | ~~i hate you *going on #debian-next~~ |
| 13:26.35 | greycat | BCMM: well, virtually every program I use in Debian is terminal-based, not X11-based, so for me, virtually every program uses TERMINAL semantics, where Ctrl-C is interrupt, not copy. |
| 13:26.44 | Bushmills | terminals and Ctrl-C predate graphic user environment. THose have stolen and redefined Ctrl-C |
| 13:26.53 | BCMM | greycat: that is *one single* x11 application. |
| 13:26.55 | Guest35220 | why is "switch user" greyed out? i wanted to test this user without logging out myself to not lose this chat, |
| 13:27.09 | jelly | whistles |
| 13:27.11 | de-facto | does debian use xattrs on its rootfs in default installs? i want to backup the rootfs with tar... |
| 13:27.22 | greycat | BCMM: uhhhh, no, it's outside of the X11 paradigm entirely, and includes non-X11 interactions like the Console. |
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| 13:28.10 | BCMM | ... don't be wrong *deliberately* because you don't like X11... |
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| 13:28.26 | greycat | BCMM: I am being literally and absolutely CORRECT. You are mistaken. |
| 13:28.51 | Guest35220 | ctrl-c / ctrl-v should have been universally used imho... but what do i know :) |
| 13:28.54 | ayekat | BCMM: Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V are implemented on the application level, and X11 doesn't know anything about those shortcuts |
| 13:29.01 | greycat | BCMM: Ctrl-C in a terminal in a BSD-ish universe (including Linux) is mapped to the intr (interrupt) feature. |
| 13:29.19 | BCMM | greycat: same on linux. it's int, not kill |
| 13:29.25 | Guest35220 | i will sure miss those handy key-shortcuts :( |
| 13:29.29 | Bushmills | Guest35220: then one has to ask why graphical environments chose to use them differently |
| 13:29.34 | greycat | BCMM: In a System V-ish universe, the intr key is usually mapped to DEL (^?), but that's not a thing most Linux users would need t know. |
| 13:29.38 | ayekat | Guest35220: most GUI applications implement Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V, don't worry |
| 13:29.50 | BCMM | Guest35220: the thing is, the meanings they have in the terminal pre-date their use for copy and paste |
| 13:30.01 | Guest35220 | ahh thats good |
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| 13:30.40 | Guest35220 | whats the use of windows-logo key then? just curious |
| 13:30.41 | greycat | TL;DR: use Shift+Insert instead. |
| 13:31.20 | Guest35220 | useless? |
| 13:31.26 | BCMM | Guest35220: for practical purposes, the terminal stands as the sole exception to those normal keyboard shortcuts (because the terminal was using them first). depending on your terminal, it probably implements some alternative clipboard shortcuts (or you might be able to right-click) |
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| 13:31.54 | BCMM | Guest35220: the windows key is usually bound to the "Super" key |
| 13:31.57 | ayekat | some (but not all) graphical terminal emulators allow Ctrl-Shift-C and Ctrl-Shift-V for copying and pasting |
| 13:32.01 | jelly | not Meta? |
| 13:32.16 | BCMM | jelly: not normally these days. i don't know why it changed. |
| 13:32.18 | greycat | correct, not Meta |
| 13:32.24 | jelly | shrugs |
| 13:32.39 | Guest35220 | ctrl+shift+v works in this one |
| 13:32.50 | de-facto | Do you guys know if Debian uses xattr's ? |
| 13:32.54 | jelly | my Menu key is Compose, that makes it useful |
| 13:32.56 | *** join/#debian bliv (~bliv@unaffiliated/blivande) |
| 13:33.13 | BCMM | Guest35220: Super can be used in keyboard shortcuts, just like alt and ctrl. it's relatively common to use it for window-manager shortcuts, or to open a launcher just like on windows |
| 13:33.48 | Guest35220 | BCMM i think i lost you? |
| 13:33.56 | jelly | de-facto: they are enabled and available and there are some components that might use them, but none that are mandatory |
| 13:34.03 | Guest35220 | oh you mean the windows-log key |
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| 13:34.36 | no_gravity | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:34.44 | de-facto | jelly, how do i backup a buster rootfs (inside lxc) with tar? do i need --xattrs? |
| 13:34.51 | ayekat | Guest35220: the super key (or "windows key") is typically not used by any unix/linux applications, so the window manager can use it to bind various actions (like window switching etc.) |
| 13:35.05 | ayekat | (without clashing with any of the applications, that is) |
| 13:35.07 | BCMM | Guest35220: yeah. the windows key usually makes the "super" keystroke, which is the name of a key that used to exist on some old keyboards that were rather influential on unix |
| 13:35.36 | Guest35220 | I did something wrong with this password-less user i think; terminal prints only ">" lines now, and when i want to close it im told there is still process running |
| 13:35.36 | BCMM | was gonna say about what ayekat said :) unless you're an emacs user, it has the advantage of being a key that's almost certainly not used by applications, so it's nice to use for your own custom shortcuts |
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| 13:35.49 | greycat | Personally, I map Super (the windows logo key) to Compose. |
| 13:36.09 | BCMM | Guest35220: if the terminal is just showing >, that usually means you opened a quote and haven't closed it |
| 13:36.17 | BCMM | i.e. it's waiting for ' or " |
| 13:36.31 | greycat | or any other continuation of the previous shell command |
| 13:36.38 | greycat | but yes, quotes are very common |
| 13:36.41 | Guest35220 | I remember on slackware or something else ctrl+c/v did work in terminal there, but maybe i had option there to set it up, i dont remember now |
| 13:37.17 | BCMM | Guest35220: not ctrl-shift-c? |
| 13:37.20 | *** join/#debian beaver^ (~beaver@gateway/tor-sasl/beaver) |
| 13:37.22 | BCMM | (that's the default in konsole, i think) |
| 13:37.44 | Guest35220 | so how do i cancel it? I think I pasted something with " when i tried ctrl+shift+c in terminal, but i didnt press enter |
| 13:38.10 | Guest35220 | yeaj i scrolled up and see it |
| 13:38.11 | ayekat | if the something that you pasted contained a newline, that's like pressing enter |
| 13:38.18 | greycat | Ctrl-C to cancel (interrupt) whatever command you're in the middle of typing and get a fresh shell prompt. |
| 13:38.30 | BCMM | Guest35220: try ctrl-d |
| 13:38.33 | greycat | No. |
| 13:38.44 | Guest35220 | did ctrl+c now im at root prompt back |
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| 13:39.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1542] by debhelper |
| 13:39.06 | greycat | Ctrl-D in a terminal context is typically "end of file", but only in very specific circumstances, typically when running a command that reads lines of input in canonical mode. |
| 13:39.24 | Guest35220 | how do i get back to setting up that "ww" user now? he is created i guess? |
| 13:39.31 | greycat | "adduser ww" |
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| 13:39.39 | greycat | without the quotes |
| 13:39.42 | *** join/#debian v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@49.207.49.175) |
| 13:39.43 | Guest35220 | but i added him didnt i? |
| 13:39.57 | greycat | We don't know what you did. Last thing I saw was that you had Ctrl-C'ed out of the previous attempt. |
| 13:40.19 | Guest35220 | Room Number []: ^Cadduser: `/bin/chfn ww' exited from signal 2. Exiting. |
| 13:40.23 | Guest35220 | oops sry |
| 13:40.32 | greycat | Yes, that was you aborting the previous command. |
| 13:40.41 | Guest35220 | that was old ctrl+v havit.. here: adduser: The user `ww' already exists. |
| 13:40.58 | greycat | Signal 2 is SIGINT ("interrupt") which is generated by the intr key in a terminal program, which is typically bound to Ctrl-C. |
| 13:41.34 | greycat | So... you aborted it after it had already performed some of the steps, and now you get to guess which steps were not completed? Lovely. |
| 13:41.39 | greycat | Good job Debian. |
| 13:41.48 | Guest35220 | yes i am going to refrain from using keyboard shortcut for now, right-click copy/paste only - until i remember ;) |
| 13:42.06 | Guest35220 | i think so greycat |
| 13:42.11 | ayekat | keyboard shortcuts are fine - just don't paste random things into your shell |
| 13:42.24 | greycat | If it's *only* the chfn ("change full name") steps that are missing, you can live without that. |
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| 13:42.31 | greycat | The question is what else didn't get done. |
| 13:42.37 | Guest35220 | i think it aborted at that "Room number" question when i tried to ctrl+c (copy) it to this chat |
| 13:42.49 | greycat | Yeah, we got that. |
| 13:43.13 | greycat | Did it create and populate the home directory? |
| 13:44.08 | Guest35220 | here all the lines until booboo: |
| 13:44.12 | Guest35220 | root@DOX-7010-d:~# adduser ww |
| 13:44.12 | Guest35220 | Adding user `ww' ... |
| 13:44.12 | Guest35220 | Adding new group `ww' (1001) ... |
| 13:44.12 | Guest35220 | Adding new user `ww' (1001) with group `ww' ... |
| 13:44.12 | Guest35220 | Creating home directory `/home/ww' ... |
| 13:44.12 | *** kick/#debian [Guest35220!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (flood) |
| 13:44.13 | *** join/#debian churnd (~churnd@unaffiliated/churnd) |
| 13:44.55 | *** join/#debian Zvmdyv (~Zvmdyv@unaffiliated/zvmdyv) |
| 13:45.03 | ayekat | booboo |
| 13:45.26 | *** join/#debian Guest35220 (~aNU@198-91-188-168.cpe.distributel.net) |
| 13:45.53 | *** join/#debian wwilliam (~afernande@12.187.181.32) |
| 13:45.57 | Guest35220 | thx BCMM |
| 13:46.03 | BCMM | !paste |
| 13:46.04 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 13:46.05 | BCMM | Guest35220: ^ |
| 13:46.09 | *** join/#debian w00dsman (~w00dsman@198.89.70.58) |
| 13:46.09 | wwilliam | VERSION="9 (stretch)" |
| 13:46.10 | Guest35220 | ok |
| 13:46.23 | wwilliam | hello im using this command and is deleting the source files why is that ? |
| 13:46.38 | Guest35220 | so did it showed what i pasted or was cut after 2nd line? |
| 13:46.39 | wwilliam | rsync -ahvH "$host":"$dir" "$mntpnt" |
| 13:46.40 | greycat | Guest35220: I duplicated your steps, and as far as I can tell, chfn is the *last* thing adduser does, so all that you're missing on your "ww" user is the GECOS stuff (full name, room number, phone number, etc.). Which is all just cosmetic. |
| 13:46.49 | *** join/#debian gabriel__ (~gabriel@2001:1284:f016:1dc7:b2cb:4466:cf44:a9b9) |
| 13:46.57 | wwilliam | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:47.02 | Guest35220 | so the user is added ok? |
| 13:47.19 | greycat | Guest35220: Probably. If you have any problems, we can address those when they arise. |
| 13:47.38 | Guest35220 | ok, good to know. what is the "chfn" you said |
| 13:47.51 | greycat | "man chfn", but I expanded it for you earlier |
| 13:47.56 | *** join/#debian gabezao (~gabriel@unaffiliated/gabezao) |
| 13:48.05 | greycat | 09:42 greycat> If it's *only* the chfn ("change full name") steps that are missing, you can live without that. |
| 13:48.35 | greycat | Ohh, adduser is a *shell script*. I can read it to see what it does. |
| 13:48.46 | greycat | well, a perl script. not a shell script. |
| 13:49.07 | Guest35220 | perl - language, shell - well... shell ;) got it |
| 13:49.10 | jelly | the best kind of script. |
| 13:49.31 | greycat | "shell script" means it uses a unix shell as the interpreter, either sh or bash or zsh or something along those lines. |
| 13:49.40 | *** join/#debian uio (~uio3@89-158-97-153.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 13:49.49 | *** join/#debian thePiGrepper (~nagato@132.191.3.30) |
| 13:49.55 | Guest35220 | noticed, it was bash in terminal |
| 13:50.10 | *** join/#debian Haudegen (~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at) |
| 13:50.15 | *** join/#debian mtn (~mtn@unaffiliated/mtn) |
| 13:50.23 | greycat | that doesn't affect the interpreter that the script uses |
| 13:50.47 | Guest35220 | so with this user added why is it still greyed out to switch users? |
| 13:51.10 | uio | There seem to be longer stop jobs after a longer session. Like, to shut down after I logged out of irc it took a while, lists of things to do (less in 9). But if I start up and then shut down quickly, the shut down is smooth and fast. |
| 13:51.28 | greycat | sounds like some kind of desktop thing. |
| 13:51.34 | greycat | what are you trying to do? |
| 13:51.38 | BCMM | greycat: useradd is the binary that actually does stuff. adduser is the (originally debian-specific, i think) wrapper |
| 13:51.57 | BCMM | uio: how much RAM do you have? |
| 13:52.08 | uio | BCMM, 2 gigs |
| 13:52.12 | BCMM | uio: maybe when you continue to use the system, things that are necessary for shutdown are getting swapped out |
| 13:52.27 | uio | BCMM, Makes sense. I have another 2 coming. |
| 13:52.34 | *** join/#debian mns (~mns@devuan/community/mns) |
| 13:52.41 | uio | As long as it doesn't take 5 minutes or hang I might be able to live with it. |
| 13:52.55 | greycat | BCMM: I'm aware. I just didn't know it was a (perl) script that I can read to see exactly what happens when you Ctrl-C in the middle of it. |
| 13:52.57 | *** join/#debian Reventlov (~remy@unaffiliated/reventlov) |
| 13:53.03 | *** join/#debian w00dsman_ (~w00dsman@198.89.70.58) |
| 13:53.12 | Reventlov | Hello. What is the metadata version debian uses with mdadm? |
| 13:53.45 | greycat | I've been reading it for a few minutes here, and I think my previous statement was correct -- in this mode (no arguments besides the user name), Ctrl-C'ing during the GECOS entry loop doesn't affect anything but GECOS (chfn). |
| 13:53.55 | Guest35220 | uio i have even less than you in another box :/ |
| 13:54.05 | greycat | It has already created the user, the group, and the home directory. |
| 13:54.11 | Reventlov | I'm trying to setup a lvm over luks over mdadm (raid 1) install, and it seems grub has some problem installing itself. I read that I should probably use --metadata=1.0 for mdadm, and I was wondering if it was already the case for the "assisted" raid configuration of debian |
| 13:54.47 | jelly | Reventlov: do you have two partitions with two separate mdadm raid1s over eachj pair? |
| 13:54.55 | greycat | If quotas are configured, it will have aborted before doing the quotas, but that's it. |
| 13:54.58 | Guest35220 | greycat but i can't switch users, it is greyed out |
| 13:55.07 | greycat | I don't know what you are trying to "switch users" inside of. |
| 13:55.13 | greycat | I don't know Desktop stuff in general. |
| 13:55.33 | uio | Guest35220, What is your DE? |
| 13:55.34 | Reventlov | jelly: well, right now I have nothing anymore since I rebooted to check something. But basically I just want lvm over luks over mdadm (raid 1), and before, I used the debian assistant to configure them |
| 13:55.41 | Reventlov | I only got 2Â disks |
| 13:55.54 | jelly | Reventlov: also does the machine boot in legacy or uefi mode |
| 13:55.59 | Reventlov | uefi |
| 13:56.16 | jelly | oh, I guess you'll need three partitions on each disk then |
| 13:56.24 | Guest35220 | xfce desktop, top right corner when clicking on currently logged-in user (me) you get usual drop down menu with logout/shutdown/etc |
| 13:56.35 | Reventlov | (been reading https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/EFI_system_partition#ESP_on_software_RAID1 ) |
| 13:56.55 | jelly | one for EFI, one for small raid1 for /boot, one for raid1 below luck below lvm |
| 13:56.59 | Guest35220 | i installed mate too, but this looks like sfce |
| 13:57.03 | jelly | s/luck/luks/ |
| 13:57.06 | Guest35220 | xfce sry |
| 13:57.11 | *** join/#debian sebatron (b92ed451@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.185.46.212.81) |
| 13:57.11 | Reventlov | the small one raid1 for /boot using metadata=1.0, right? |
| 13:57.25 | Reventlov | and I'd mirror the EFI (is that the ESPÂ one?) manually |
| 13:57.34 | jelly | Reventlov: right |
| 13:57.45 | jelly | on both accounts |
| 13:57.57 | Reventlov | can't I just have a single big raid partition with metadata=1.0 or is that not advisable? |
| 13:58.03 | uio | Guest35220, Yep greyed out for me too. |
| 13:58.37 | Guest35220 | uio that means something went wrong i guess? |
| 13:58.49 | uio | Guest35220, Probably a bug. |
| 13:58.55 | jelly | Reventlov: you probably can, but then you'll have to use grub's luks and lvm support and will have to enter the passphrase for luks two times, once for grub, once for linux |
| 13:59.00 | uio | It was in 9 too though. |
| 13:59.01 | Reventlov | ok |
| 13:59.32 | jelly | the conservative approach is to keep /boot separate and not encrypted |
| 13:59.42 | *** join/#debian P1ersson (~P1ersson@kenta.kemi.kth.se) |
| 13:59.52 | Reventlov | ok |
| 13:59.57 | Reventlov | looks good for me |
| 14:00.15 | Reventlov | thanks |
| 14:00.19 | Guest35220 | uio one of the distros i tried few days ago (maybe linux mate?) had a very easy users administration program, with gui, but i dont remember what it was now... maybe you know? |
| 14:00.34 | greycat | Mate is a desktop environment, basically a fork of GNOME 2.x. |
| 14:00.41 | greycat | !mate |
| 14:00.41 | dpkg | The MATE Desktop Environment is a fork of GNOME 2, available since Debian 8 "Jessie" (and also in wheezy-backports). To install, ask me about <install mate>. https://wiki.debian.org/Mate http://mate-desktop.org/ #mate on chat.freenode.net. |
| 14:00.41 | jelly | in theory grub could be able to pass the luks key to kernel in-memory, so that user only needs to enter the pass once, but I don't know if anyone implemented that yet |
| 14:00.52 | uio | Guest35220, Mate seems to be a bit easy to use out-of-box. |
| 14:00.55 | uio | Than XFCE. |
| 14:00.56 | *** join/#debian prophile (~prophile@oftn/oswg-member/prophile) |
| 14:01.12 | uio | You tried Mate + Debian? |
| 14:01.12 | Guest35220 | greycat i meant linux mate as distro, i know its ubuntu with mate, which is debian with customizations and so on ;) |
| 14:01.40 | Guest35220 | uio not yet, its actually first boot of mu Debian installation |
| 14:01.40 | uio | Guest35220, Mint? |
| 14:01.42 | greycat | That's why I responded the way I did. Mate is not the name of a distro. It's the name of a desktop environment. |
| 14:01.55 | Guest35220 | uio oooh yes MINT not Mate, i'm so sorry |
| 14:02.41 | uio | Guest35220, Yeah. Go for it. Easy out of box than anything here. But probably has other issues (like being closer to Ubuntu and thus Canonical). |
| 14:03.08 | Guest35220 | as i said, i did tried quite few distros in past week, finally it dawned on me: why try derivatives if you can go for original... started reading installation manuals and stuff on debian.org and decided . so im here now :) |
| 14:03.51 | uio | Guest35220, Cool! That was kinda my approach with Lubuntu. I do prefer Debian, but personally find a major learning curve. |
| 14:04.29 | *** join/#debian Burek (~Burek@unaffiliated/burekzfinezt) |
| 14:04.39 | Guest35220 | uio im prepared for learning curve, no worries. I did try lubuntu, xubuntu, full ubuntu, but none of them appealed to me |
| 14:05.07 | uio | Guest35220, So what DE have you chosen? XFCE? MATE? LXDE? Gnome? |
| 14:05.29 | Guest35220 | installed xfce and mate, but booted with xfce |
| 14:05.53 | Guest35220 | imho its lightest from everything but judging from look i may be wrong |
| 14:05.56 | *** join/#debian lucas_ (~lucas@ipv4-80-68-230-177.net.internetunion.pl) |
| 14:05.57 | uio | Guest35220, Cool! |
| 14:06.18 | *** join/#debian qotta (~qotta@72-50-201-55.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 14:06.19 | uio | Guest35220, I like XFCE too. Light enough, and customisable. A few bugs for sure, but alas. |
| 14:06.23 | *** join/#debian twobitsprite (~isaac@8.42.18.10) |
| 14:07.26 | uio | Guest35220, Lighter than MATE on ressources I think. Or close. |
| 14:07.42 | uio | heavier than LXDE (but Debian + LXDE is a disaster). |
| 14:08.09 | Guest35220 | uio yeah i never liked rainbow jumping icons, beautiful wallpapers changed every 10sec and shit like that... my comp is to be used not to be looked at and praise it's desktop look imho |
| 14:08.12 | *** join/#debian n_1-c_k (~n_1-c_k@2a02:8010:63a6::70) |
| 14:09.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1549] by debhelper |
| 14:09.03 | Guest35220 | but i do understand why so many distros put more effort on beauty looks |
| 14:09.03 | uio | Guest35220, lol |
| 14:09.45 | uio | Guest35220, Right, I mean I think Debian + XFCE could have taken 5 minutes to make the default not look like the late 90's, but hey. |
| 14:10.05 | greycat | Debian's focus is less on aesthetics and more on making sure stuff actually works. Which means lots of testing, which means stuff is *older* than in some other systems. |
| 14:10.15 | jelly | ,v debootstrap |
| 14:10.16 | judd | Package: debootstrap on amd64 -- jessie: 1.0.67+deb8u1; stretch: 1.0.89; stretch-backports: 1.0.110~bpo9+1; buster: 1.0.114; buster-backports: 1.0.115~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1.0.115; sid: 1.0.115 |
| 14:10.21 | greycat | If something is a week old, that means it has been tested for less than a week. |
| 14:10.34 | Guest35220 | uio its fine by me, when i won't have any windows taking the screen means im not using it hence i wont look at the desktop at all ;) |
| 14:10.42 | uio | greycat, Sure, but I mean, it would have literally taken 5 minutes to make XFCE look 10 years newer. |
| 14:11.10 | uio | theme + icon + wallpaper and it looks way better. |
| 14:11.24 | ayekat | but debian's goal is not to make all the DEs look shiny |
| 14:11.52 | *** join/#debian LtL (~ltl@unaffiliated/ltl) |
| 14:11.54 | Guest35220 | and imho that's good - it's all rather easy to customize yourself |
| 14:12.21 | uio | Yeah, I mean if Debian doesn't think that it's worth 5 minutes to make a more modern-looking default than that's fine. |
| 14:12.47 | Guest35220 | my hate to windows started first not because it's crappy, but because i couldn't change almost anything about gui |
| 14:13.03 | ayekat | uio: it's not a matter of how much time you spend - it's a matter of not deviating from default upstream behaviour (apart from what's necessary) |
| 14:13.57 | ayekat | some distributions care more about looks, and they're willing to modify software package to look "prettier" out of the box, but that's not quite debian's goal |
| 14:14.05 | uio | ayekat, And different themes and icons and a decent wallpaper, the first two of which are already in repos would threaten that? |
| 14:14.27 | ayekat | themes and wallpapers can be set by the user |
| 14:15.35 | uio | ayekat, True. All I'm saying is if Debian can make things look way better by using what's already in the repos and taking 5 minutes (okay 10) why not? This doesn't distract from the priorties. It could be done for the major ten or whatever DEs in like under two hours. |
| 14:16.02 | uio | Defaults can be changed, but why not have a good one? |
| 14:16.18 | Guest35220 | from noob's perspective i tell you guys what imho debian is missing same as many other distros: a "Windows" theme to resemble i.e. damn ctrl+c/v shortcuts in terminal ;) |
| 14:16.45 | *** join/#debian thePiGrepper (~nagato@132.191.3.30) |
| 14:16.46 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@2a00:23c5:6e24:b700:99cb:6836:e9e9:23c0) |
| 14:17.00 | Guest35220 | i do remember one of the terminals had this option in it's settings ;) |
| 14:17.02 | ayekat | uio: I don't know about xfce, but the defaults are usually what upstream chooses - so if you want to change the default theme, you may want to ask the upstream xfce developers |
| 14:17.02 | BCMM | Guest35220: windows has ctrl+c/v in the terminal now? |
| 14:17.05 | Guest35220 | so it could be done |
| 14:17.26 | Guest35220 | BCMM yes it always had in cmd prompt |
| 14:17.29 | ayekat | Guest35220: if you map ctrl-c to "copy" in your terminal emulator, how do you pass SIGINT to the application? |
| 14:17.39 | greycat | You could configure your terminal to use different bindings for intr and lnext, but it would be a STEEP deviation from Unix traditions. |
| 14:17.47 | Guest35220 | BCMM at least since windows 2000 iirc |
| 14:17.54 | uio | ayekat, Do you think Debian is perfect? |
| 14:17.55 | BCMM | Guest35220: i thought you had to right-click and select "mark", then highlight, then right-click and choose copy |
| 14:17.59 | ayekat | uio: nope |
| 14:18.08 | *** join/#debian hyskaru (~hyskaru@2a01:cb19:87d7:cd00::14b) |
| 14:18.11 | BCMM | Guest35220: ctrl-c aborts the running program in cmd.exe, in imitation of unix |
| 14:18.12 | greycat | BCMM: Shift+Insert probably works... |
| 14:18.13 | uio | ayekat, Wouldn't it be better if defaults looked a bit less.... 90s? |
| 14:18.24 | uio | It would take 5 mins! |
| 14:18.27 | greycat | at least for the 'paste' half. not sure how to 'copy'. |
| 14:18.48 | ayekat | uio: if "better defaults" means "deviating from upstream defaults", then the answer is clearly "no" |
| 14:18.59 | Guest35220 | greycat i do understand that, i know almost everything can be configured to my liking or habits - what i meant is to add some as-Windows-alike theme for noobs coming from windozes, that's all |
| 14:18.59 | uio | ayekat, Why? |
| 14:19.22 | ayekat | uio: because I don't like if distributions deviate from upstream behaviour - it makes it more difficult to debug things and finding information in general |
| 14:19.24 | *** join/#debian governor (~governor@154.118.9.145) |
| 14:19.30 | greycat | This wouldn't just be a *theme*. It's deeper stuff. |
| 14:19.46 | uio | ayekat, We're taking about changing a theme and icons! |
| 14:19.53 | uio | ayekat, nothing too complicated! |
| 14:20.02 | uio | ayekat, A wallpaper won't break upstream. |
| 14:20.08 | Guest35220 | BCMM i'm pretty sure i ctrl+c/ctrl+v in cmd prompt :) |
| 14:20.09 | ayekat | uio: yeah, but where do you draw the line for "this is acceptable deviation from upstream"? |
| 14:20.27 | ayekat | uio: it's simpler to just not do it at all |
| 14:20.31 | BCMM | Guest35220: i've not used the w10 terminal much, so i guess it's possible |
| 14:20.39 | uio | ayekat, Is there anything wrong with saying that Debian could have done a better job? It chose ugly defaults. I can live with that. But it did. |
| 14:20.41 | jelly | ayekat: sometimes upstream are idiots. |
| 14:20.53 | BCMM | Guest35220: but circa win2k, ctrl-c was definitely for closing the current program in the terminal |
| 14:21.11 | ayekat | jelly: sure, in some cases proper system integration requires deviating from upstream defaults - but changing a theme doesn't fall into that category IMHO |
| 14:21.12 | uio | ayekat, Could icons cause upstream issues? |
| 14:21.17 | Guest35220 | BCMM i think you're right, it probably wasn't in WIn2K but was added later, maybe at Win-Vista or 7 |
| 14:21.23 | *** join/#debian czart (~czart@acdx132.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 14:21.33 | ayekat | uio: if the icon set has issues and people start complaining to upstream - yes |
| 14:21.42 | *** join/#debian Spr1ng (~Spr1ng@unaffiliated/spr1ng) |
| 14:21.47 | BCMM | huh, turns out it didn't even originate in unix; dos and unix both copied early DEC operating systems on that |
| 14:21.58 | Guest35220 | BCMM because i actually remember pasting with mouse right-clicking too |
| 14:22.02 | BCMM | (well, dos copied cp/m which copied dec, ofc) |
| 14:22.05 | ayekat | uio: debian does a fine job with not deviating from upstream if unnecessary - and changing the default theme falls IMHO into that category |
| 14:22.36 | Guest35220 | DEC? that's like 50 yrs ago... |
| 14:22.38 | *** join/#debian jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@corp.cdc.nicusa.com) |
| 14:23.18 | BCMM | Guest35220: like i said, ctrl-c for "abort current command" is *much* older than copy/paste |
| 14:23.26 | ayekat | uio: and ultimately, it was (probably - again, I don't know about xfce in particular) not debian who "chose" the default, but simply adopted what xfce does by default |
| 14:23.31 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a00:23c5:6e24:b700:99cb:6836:e9e9:23c0) |
| 14:23.45 | Guest35220 | BCMM then it is the default i guess. |
| 14:23.48 | ayekat | uio: (then again, what I see on the xfce.org website suggests that upstream has a different idea of what it should ideally look like) |
| 14:24.17 | greycat | Ctrl-C as intr goes back to the earliest BSD systems, I think. It's definitely one of the BSD points of departure from SysV, which as I said before, used DEL as intr. |
| 14:24.43 | uio | ayekat, Yep.https://xfce.org/about/tour412 Debian just chose ugly. |
| 14:24.45 | *** join/#debian _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@90.162.105.206) |
| 14:24.56 | uio | Or old. |
| 14:24.58 | Guest35220 | so who started ctrl+c as copy instead? msoft? |
| 14:25.00 | greycat | I'm also guessing it has a lot to do with the fact that many terminals send DEL when you press their backspace-ish keys. |
| 14:25.09 | ayekat | uio: ah no, wait - xfce 4.14 was released just 8 days ago (i.e. after the last debian release) |
| 14:25.10 | BCMM | Guest35220: Xerox PARC |
| 14:25.27 | ayekat | uio: and the last release before that was in 2015 - which is probably what debian has packaged |
| 14:25.27 | uio | ayekat, Right, but this is 4.12: https://xfce.org/about/tour412 |
| 14:25.30 | Guest35220 | xerox in their famous firs windows gui? |
| 14:25.30 | BCMM | Guest35220: basically all the common elements of modern GUIs come from there |
| 14:25.32 | *** join/#debian weedloser (~pabu@c-c271235c.045-512-73746f34.bbcust.telenor.se) |
| 14:25.48 | uio | ayekat, Which looks better than Debian XFCE 9 did. |
| 14:26.17 | *** join/#debian toxync12 (~toxync12@223.72.86.192) |
| 14:26.48 | uio | ayekat, Anyway. Always fun debating DEs what do you use? |
| 14:26.48 | ayekat | uio: well, I guess then you've got a point |
| 14:27.04 | Guest35220 | where do i check my version of gui? xfce? |
| 14:27.27 | alkisg | ls /usr/share/xsessions => lists all available sessions |
| 14:27.31 | uio | ayekat, I totally get the fuction over looks thing, but Debian's default XFCE is a blast to the bast. |
| 14:27.35 | uio | *past. |
| 14:27.37 | Guest35220 | xfce 4.12 |
| 14:27.41 | uio | Which can be cool. |
| 14:27.48 | uio | I like GNUstep. |
| 14:28.29 | cybercrypto | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:29.02 | cybercrypto | I like windowmaker |
| 14:29.22 | Guest35220 | so guys should i log out now to see if this password-less users appears? |
| 14:29.54 | Guest35220 | because user switching is greyed out for some reason |
| 14:29.55 | uio | ayekat, Oh, wait, says the screenshots are form OpenBSD! |
| 14:30.04 | ayekat | uio: I guess this https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/desktop/xfce4/blob/debian/master/debian/control#L27 could indeed be changed to something else |
| 14:31.27 | uio | ayekat, What is that environment? |
| 14:32.03 | ayekat | uio: ? |
| 14:33.14 | *** join/#debian nuuuciano (~luuuciano@unaffiliated/luuuciano) |
| 14:33.18 | *** join/#debian sonicdee (~linushec@linus.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) |
| 14:33.35 | uio | ayekat, Salsa? |
| 14:34.12 | ayekat | uio: no idea, but it's where some of the debian devs host their package sources |
| 14:34.22 | uio | ayekat, Cool! |
| 14:34.23 | *** join/#debian pierrot_ (~pi@vmi95795.contabo.host) |
| 14:34.32 | uio | ayekat, Lemme guess, you on i3? |
| 14:34.33 | Guest35220 | im just browsing thru all "user manager" packages in synaptics, and i tell you: all those names mean nothing to me, have to click on each to see what it is, and even then its often meaningless to noob like me: "supports multiple seats and switching between multiple users. The greeter is based on the GNOME libraries and applications, and its look and design are the same as those of a GNOME session. |
| 14:34.53 | BCMM | uio: salsa is a gitlab instance for debian development |
| 14:34.58 | Guest35220 | thats from description of libgdm1 |
| 14:34.59 | ayekat | uio: I'm on a buggy, work-in-progress window manager that I loosely based on the dwm source code |
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| 14:35.30 | BCMM | uio: the source repositories for debian packages don't have to be hosted there, but they *can* be |
| 14:35.33 | uio | ayekat, Cool. |
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| 14:35.46 | uio | BCMM, Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. |
| 14:35.50 | uio | BCMM, Kewl. |
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| 14:41.38 | Guest50310 | < Guest35220 here. The password-less user didnt work, cant login due to wrong password |
| 14:41.57 | greycat | What are you trying to do? |
| 14:42.01 | alkisg | Guest50310: just type this here, and set a name: /nick somename |
| 14:42.20 | *** join/#debian woenx (~quassel@247.91.79.188.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 14:42.30 | alkisg | copycat |
| 14:42.34 | graycat | lol |
| 14:42.44 | uio | There we go. |
| 14:43.14 | Andy999999999 | kinda long but will do ;) |
| 14:43.19 | apostolis | Anyone experiencing crashes when using firefox or chrome, with buster? |
| 14:43.20 | copycat | That is interesting. |
| 14:43.21 | *** join/#debian Sanjiv_Govinda (~Sanjiv@178-175-131-101.static.as43289.net) |
| 14:43.37 | apostolis | The window mananger dwm crashes. |
| 14:43.46 | *** join/#debian emulated (~emulated@host172-179-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:43.52 | apostolis | or it could be something else. |
| 14:43.57 | greycat | *sigh* making me spend time looking up hostmasks and expanding my /ignore is not earning any good will |
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| 14:44.06 | Andy999999999 | fox works fine, been using for few hours with tons of tabs, checked videos on Yt etc - all good so far here |
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| 14:44.29 | apostolis | It works fine until it does not. |
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| 14:44.55 | uio | apostolis, No issues for ff here on xfce & Buster. |
| 14:44.58 | Andy999999999 | though YT playback has some tiny quirks in playback, but i guess its because i havent installed any hardware acceleration drivers yet |
| 14:45.26 | apostolis | I can reproduce the problem in both firefox and chrome, so the problem is not the browsers. |
| 14:46.36 | emulated | Hello, I have iwlwifi firmware installed on my system, and I would like to remove 'non-free' section from sources.list. Is there any side effect in doing so? |
| 14:46.52 | greycat | you won't receive any future updates |
| 14:47.01 | uio | greycat, What are hostmasks? |
| 14:47.11 | Andy999999999 | so do i type just "deluser ww" to remove it? |
| 14:48.19 | uio | ... is this about the graycat /nick joke? |
| 14:48.27 | emulated | greycat: OK, thank you |
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| 14:48.56 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:48.56 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:49.03 | BCMM | emulated: what are you worried about, regarding having non-free enabled? |
| 14:49.11 | *** join/#debian apostolis (~apostolis@5-203-220-98.mobile.nym.cosmote.net) |
| 14:49.21 | Andy999999999 | so guys, any other ideas on setting up a password-less user? |
| 14:49.30 | greycat | Andy999999999: I strongly advise reading "man deluser" to see all the options and stuff. |
| 14:49.36 | BCMM | emulated: if you're concerned about accidentally installing other non-free packages, you could periodically check the list of non-free packages on the system |
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| 14:49.42 | greycat | Andy999999999: what are you trying to do? |
| 14:49.53 | Andy999999999 | greycat i already did ;) user is deleted already |
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| 14:50.21 | uio | greycat, I think they want auto login. |
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| 14:50.31 | Andy999999999 | greycat: : trying to add a password-less user, so anyone in the house can just click on it and get desktop... |
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| 14:50.51 | uio | Andy999999999, This might help? From Jessie though.... https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/302400/auto-login-on-xfce-in-jessie |
| 14:51.01 | Andy999999999 | just to play movies or go to YT |
| 14:51.05 | BCMM | Andy999999999: do you also need a protected user? |
| 14:51.15 | BCMM | Andy999999999: or would it make sense to just enable automatic login? |
| 14:51.28 | emulated | BCMM: I would like to avoid installing packages from non-free; however, I cannot use my wireless card without firmware-iwlwifi. Ideally, I would like have non-free section disabled, and firmware-iwlwifi "whitelisted" so that I can receive updates |
| 14:51.45 | uio | Andy999999999, Also https://steemit.com/software/@kskarthik/how-to-enable-auto-login-in-lightdm |
| 14:51.48 | BCMM | emulated: if you want to avoid installing packages from non-free then, um, just don't install them basically |
| 14:51.48 | Andy999999999 | guys, i don't want this password-less user to automatically log in at every boot |
| 14:51.57 | uio | Fo 9 |
| 14:52.01 | uio | *For 9 |
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| 14:52.06 | apostolis | I just crashed again. Any time I try to open an instagram link, it consistenly crashes in both firefox and chrome. |
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| 14:52.16 | BCMM | emulated: just having non-free enabled isn't going to cause extra non-free packages to be installed |
| 14:52.39 | greycat | Andy999999999: OK, I'm seeing some google results for lightdm passwordless login, and it looks like you might have to tweak the PAM configs. I don't use lightdm myself, though. |
| 14:52.43 | emulated | BCMM: Of course yes, but sometimes you just want to type in apt install and let the system automatically avoid non-free for you, since I don't know licenses of every package in advance |
| 14:52.54 | uio | Andy999999999, Could change autologin-user-timeout=0 to something higher? |
| 14:53.08 | uio | Andy999999999, That way you have time to change to something else. |
| 14:53.23 | greycat | arch wiki has this: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/LightDM#Enabling_interactive_passwordless_login |
| 14:53.24 | apostolis | An instagram link is the one one receives from embedded instagram content on other pages. |
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| 14:54.06 | uio | Andy999999999, also: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/LightDM#Enabling_autologin |
| 14:54.10 | BCMM | emulated: you can probably achieve what you're asking for with apt pinning, but i'm not quite sure how |
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| 14:55.48 | Andy999999999 | greycat i cant find what is lightdm you mentioned |
| 14:56.03 | greycat | lightdm is one of the graphical login programs |
| 14:56.13 | greycat | I can only guess which one you're using, and lightdm is pretty common |
| 14:56.26 | greycat | !dm |
| 14:56.27 | dpkg | DM means Display Manager, the app that brings up a graphical login screen and starts your login session. <lightdm>, <gdm3>, <xdm>, <kdm>, <wdm>, pdm, login.app and <slim> are all examples of display managers. Ask me about <nodm> if you want to disable the DM. Or Debian Maintainer: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMaintainer . For the deb-multimedia repository, ask me about <dmm>. |
| 14:56.38 | Andy999999999 | i have the one that came with installation disc of debian 10.0.0 x64 |
| 14:56.50 | greycat | once you figure out which DM you're using, then you get to figure out how to configure it to allow interactive passwordless logins |
| 14:56.57 | themill | emulated: http://paste.debian.net/1096707/ can work |
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| 14:57.08 | emulated | BCMM: I see. I thought removing 'non-free' from sources.list was enough to automatically avoid installing proprietary software |
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| 14:57.31 | greycat | Andy999999999: the installed packages depend on which choices you make during the installation. It has nothing to do with what's "on" the installer disc. |
| 14:57.32 | BCMM | Andy999999999: which "task" did you choose on this screen? https://i.imgur.com/LoIiGP0.jpg |
| 14:58.00 | greycat | Andy999999999: it would be simpler for you just to run something like 'dpkg -l \*dm\*' to see what is installed. |
| 14:58.06 | Andy999999999 | xfce, mate, and bottom 3 |
| 14:58.11 | emulated | themill: thank you |
| 14:58.27 | apostolis | Actually, it only crashes on a specific intagram link, this one : https://www.instagram.com/p/B1WCcAghhuK/ |
| 14:58.32 | Andy999999999 | oh and Debian desktop environment i think |
| 14:58.44 | greycat | or, dpkg -l \*dm \*dm3 might give a shorter list |
| 14:58.56 | greycat | because of course we have to have one that doesn't end with 'dm' |
| 14:59.00 | apostolis | It also crashes on twitter, but I cannot find the twit to reproduce it. |
| 14:59.30 | Andy999999999 | 23 lines |
| 14:59.42 | BCMM | ok, i actually don't know what dm you get if you just install all the desktops |
| 14:59.48 | Andy999999999 | oh no, more than that |
| 15:00.21 | Andy999999999 | lightdm 1.26.0-4 |
| 15:00.25 | Andy999999999 | is that it? |
| 15:00.35 | greycat | If the line begins with "ii" then it's installed. |
| 15:00.49 | Andy999999999 | yes it starts with ii |
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| 15:01.15 | Andy999999999 | there is also something called dmsetup installed |
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| 15:01.33 | Reventlov | Another question: I just booted my setup, and before having to enter my luks passphrase (lvm over luks over mdadm), I have message about my virtual group not being found |
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| 15:02.03 | Reventlov | Why would the system try to find virtual group before unlocking the encrypted partition containing it? |
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| 15:06.01 | Andy999999999 | every time i want to close terminal window it says there is a process running, is that normal or i did something wrong again? Im at root prompt |
| 15:06.16 | dvs | Andy999999999, there's something wrong. |
| 15:06.19 | greycat | what does 'jobs' say? |
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| 15:06.25 | dvs | buy a mac! |
| 15:06.34 | alkisg | (type ctrl+d or exit to exit the `su` shell) |
| 15:06.35 | SerajewelKS | Andy999999999: you get that message if there is a program running under the shell. if you are at a root prompt, that's probably sudo or su. |
| 15:06.46 | greycat | *sigh* |
| 15:06.49 | SerajewelKS | Andy999999999: (running under the shell that the terminal emulator created) |
| 15:07.01 | Andy999999999 | dvs: lol |
| 15:07.07 | dvs | ;-) |
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| 15:07.59 | jhutchins_wk | Andy999999999: ps will show what tasks are running in that session. |
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| 15:08.06 | Andy999999999 | where are the jobs his running? where do i see it, is there a "task manager" somewhere? |
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| 15:08.39 | greycat | SerajewelKS: ... oh, you think he was clicking the [X] button with a mouse rather than using shell commands to exit? Damn. I am *really* out of touch with the Windows refugee mindset. |
| 15:08.40 | PiOjitOh | I have problems installing readline, zlib sudo apt-get install readline zlib <<<< and does not install someone knows what happened to him =/ |
| 15:09.12 | Andy999999999 | greycat yeah i did click X, but before that i did ctrl+c to kill :P |
| 15:09.30 | greycat | Ctrl-c interrupts a running shell command, but it doesn't exit out of the shell. |
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| 15:09.39 | Alexander-47u | hi all |
| 15:09.42 | Andy999999999 | grey eh... :( |
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| 15:10.16 | greycat | If you launched a terminal, and then ran "su" inside that terminal, now you're inside two different shells. "su" is running inside (as a child of) your regular shell, which is running inside the terminal. You would need to "exit" two times. |
| 15:10.16 | SerajewelKS | greycat: right, and there's a child process of the shell the terminal created so it's barking at him about it |
| 15:10.45 | greycat | The first "exit" takes you out of "su" back to your regular shell. |
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| 15:11.46 | Andy999999999 | got it. i just typed exit - which killed root prompt, took me back to my limited user prompt, now it closed with "X" click without problems |
| 15:12.03 | dvs | Andy999999999, or you can type "exit" again |
| 15:12.20 | Andy999999999 | it would close the window too? |
| 15:12.29 | dvs | It should |
| 15:12.43 | greycat | Ctrl-D also works as a synonym for exit, as long as you haven't already typed anything else at this specific shell prompt. |
| 15:12.46 | Andy999999999 | yes it does, just tried. Thanks |
| 15:13.04 | dvs | Andy999999999, yeah, that's what I do. Just type "exit" until it closes |
| 15:13.25 | jhutchins_wk | Andy999999999: You should not use the GUI interface to close a shell session. Use Ctrl-d or exit |
| 15:13.38 | Andy999999999 | greycat i rather stay away from keuboard shortcuts, i'm too used to windozes shortcuts and will make boo |
| 15:13.43 | greycat | that's fine |
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| 15:14.57 | Andy999999999 | so how about that password-less user, and without auto-login... ;) |
| 15:15.11 | greycat | Configure lightdm to allow it. |
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| 15:15.37 | Andy999999999 | how to configure it? with it's config file ? |
| 15:16.08 | greycat | https://wiki.debian.org/LightDM doesn't have your question, but it's all we've got. You can google. I gave you a google result that led to the Arch wiki a while back. |
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| 15:16.26 | BCMM | Andy999999999: i don't think most display managers actually support that |
| 15:16.40 | greycat | 10:53 greycat> arch wiki has this: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/LightDM#Enabling_interactive_passwordless_login |
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| 15:17.05 | Andy999999999 | greycat yes i have it, it has "Enabling interactive passwordless login" but i don't understand it. OPAM ? |
| 15:17.06 | alkisg | Andy999999999: you can set blank passwords that work anywhere, if you don't care much about security; fortunately they don't work over ssh ;) |
| 15:17.09 | greycat | Autologin is *much* more popular than interactive passwordless login. |
| 15:17.17 | greycat | !pam |
| 15:17.17 | dpkg | pam is, like, the Pluggable Authentication Modules. Check http://web.archive.org/web/20110721105843/http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/libs/pam/ for more information. Linux-PAM System Administrators' Guide: http://web.archive.org/web/20110613030734/http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/libs/pam/Linux-PAM-html/Linux-PAM_SAG.html |
| 15:17.38 | greycat | Yikes. |
| 15:17.55 | greycat | two web.archive.org links? really? |
| 15:18.00 | Andy999999999 | alkisg i care about security, i'm planning tio have this password-less user as limited as possible, but first i have to create it lol |
| 15:18.21 | greycat | You *did* create it, you said. You can test it by logging in on the console. Ctrl-Alt-F2. |
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| 15:18.35 | greycat | Passwordless Console logins shold work out of the box. |
| 15:18.36 | alkisg | Andy999999999: I mean, a blank password works in the terminal too; while the passwordless login is only configured in the display manager |
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| 15:18.50 | Andy999999999 | greycat i already deleted it, when i logout i couldn't login to it without password |
| 15:18.54 | greycat | Passwordless logins do *NOT* work out of the box in ssh, or apparently in lightdm. |
| 15:19.04 | greycat | *sigh* you didn't even test it properly |
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| 15:19.19 | alkisg | passwordless login isn't the same as blank password login. Blank password login works in all pam apps. |
| 15:19.25 | alkisg | (except ssh etc) |
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| 15:20.23 | Andy999999999 | greycat at login window (lightdm i guess) i typed username "ww" and nothing for password; it insisted my password is wrong |
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| 15:20.39 | greycat | Test at the console instead. Ctrl-Alt-F2. |
| 15:20.53 | Reventlov | I got these messages at boot: http://0x0.st/zWuO.txt, are they important? Entering the password decrypt the luks volume and then, everything works fine, it seems |
| 15:21.04 | alkisg | nopasswdlogin isn't managed by pam, so it won't work in vt2 |
| 15:21.19 | Andy999999999 | now i have to create it again, but first i wanted to make sure i know what to do |
| 15:21.22 | alkisg | That's why gdm removed support for it |
| 15:21.26 | greycat | I CANNOT KEEP UP WITH ALL OF THE WRONG ANSWERS |
| 15:21.26 | SerajewelKS | Reventlov: that just means that while probing disks early on, it can't find that volume group (because it's behind encryption) |
| 15:21.28 | greycat | GAAAH |
| 15:21.30 | Fox | Andy999999999: do you have a pam config file for lightdm ? like /etc/pam.d/lightdm |
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| 15:21.57 | SerajewelKS | Reventlov: that is, it's an expected error. entering the encryption passphrase resolves the error, basically. |
| 15:22.05 | augusta | Hey Guys, Check this out http://augusta.cf |
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| 15:22.16 | greycat | I am going to test what alkisg said and if it turns out to be wrong, which I'm 98% certain it will, then I will ponder whether to /ignore him again, or silence him. |
| 15:22.21 | Andy999999999 | Fox yes i found it |
| 15:22.53 | Reventlov | SerajewelKS: yeah, but can I tell it that it's behind encryption to avoid these messages? |
| 15:23.42 | BCMM | augusta: would you be so kind as to give a short description of what the link is about, so people can work out if they can be bothered to click it? |
| 15:24.01 | SerajewelKS | Reventlov: not to my knowledge |
| 15:24.17 | greycat | OK, I have officially completed my test. I did "adduser fooblank", and it wouldn't let me enter an empty password, so I entered a password of foo, AND THEN, I ran "vipw -s" and cleared the password field. Then I logged in on tty2 with my new user account. Successfully. |
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| 15:24.55 | greycat | In an act of kindness toward alkisg but CRUELTY to everyone else in the channel who has to endure his lies and misinformation, I will not silence him at this time. Consider this a WARNING. |
| 15:25.03 | augusta | BCMM, The website is about our Natioal Level Technical Symposium. |
| 15:25.12 | greycat | STOP SPEWING MISINFORMATION INTO THIS CHANNEL. IT WASTES EVERYONE'S TIME. IT MAKES ME ANGRY. |
| 15:25.19 | alkisg | greycat: I'm just now implementing passwordless logins in ltsp and thought I would help. I'll stop replying when you're talking. |
| 15:25.25 | dvs | and you wont like him when he's angry |
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| 15:25.30 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 15:25.35 | _Cute_Kitty_ | whoa |
| 15:25.43 | _Cute_Kitty_ | caps |
| 15:25.47 | alkisg | I don't know why you're so angry, but I really don't want to try to help against that attitude |
| 15:25.55 | _Cute_Kitty_ | what's going on. |
| 15:26.02 | alkisg | So ok, let's split our efforts. I won't help whenever you're talking, np |
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| 15:26.28 | greycat | Standard IRC. Person A asks a question, person B answers the question, and persons C through Q drown out B's answer with wrong answers. |
| 15:26.33 | greycat | You know. |
| 15:26.50 | alkisg | It's really actually what I've spent yesterday and today on. But ok. Problem solved. |
| 15:27.10 | _Cute_Kitty_ | I am usually person c |
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| 15:28.35 | Andy999999999 | this link you gave me: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/LightDM#Enabling_autologin under "Enabling interactive passwordless login" says: LightDM goes through PAM so you must configure the lightdm configuration of PAM:" ... then: "you must then also be part of the nopasswdlogin group..." so i guess i have to create this group first? |
| 15:28.36 | *** join/#debian grobi (~rtng@unaffiliated/grobi) |
| 15:29.16 | greycat | I don't know how much of what the Arch wiki says is necessary or even functional under Debian. You will have to cross-reference it with the PAM documentation and with common sense. |
| 15:29.19 | jelly | Andy999999999: some of those steps on the Arch Linux wiki might be Arch Linux specific. Caveat emptor. |
| 15:29.36 | Andy999999999 | thats great :( |
| 15:29.45 | greycat | You are asking for something highly uncommon. We don't have documentation for it because nobody ever wanted to do it before. |
| 15:29.54 | Andy999999999 | I see |
| 15:29.56 | jelly | however, lightdm almost certainly uses PAM and has it enabled by default |
| 15:29.59 | _Cute_Kitty_ | greycat are you some sort of genius or something? |
| 15:30.01 | Bliepo | Or go for the easy way out and just make the password the same as the username |
| 15:30.27 | jelly | _Cute_Kitty_: probably just an old beard with enough experience |
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| 15:30.33 | BCMM | i've seen a few references to a "guest login" feature in lightdm, which might serve a similar purpose. does anybody know if that's actually part of lightdm, or some ubuntu patch? |
| 15:30.34 | Andy999999999 | Bliepo: I think that's what i will do for now, just easy pass like 55555 or so |
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| 15:31.24 | Bliepo | Add a post-it |
| 15:31.33 | Fox | and paint it on the wall |
| 15:31.47 | Andy999999999 | BCMM: is this "guest login" means same/similar as "guest" in windoze? limited user? |
| 15:31.51 | Bliepo | Better yet, make a neon sign |
| 15:32.09 | BCMM | Andy999999999: i'm really not sure what it is. that's why i'm asking. |
| 15:32.15 | Fox | the pam way is really easy and should work the same on arch or debian |
| 15:33.42 | Andy999999999 | Bliepo: no need for sarcasm, this is PC is going to be hooked up to tv in living room for everyone to use; i will add other normal users, but for watching YT or videos on TV i thought it is good idea to have easy "common" user without any password, that's all. |
| 15:34.31 | Andy999999999 | no one is going to use it as standard desktop for office or even emails |
| 15:34.42 | Bliepo | I was actually not being sarcastic since I did read that before. |
| 15:35.28 | Bliepo | It´s just fun to say: hey, that thing everybody tells you not to do? DO IT! |
| 15:35.39 | Andy999999999 | ok... anyways, probly except for me no one else will use it as 'normal' PC, think of it as HTPC or something in that design |
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| 15:40.48 | jhutchins_wk | Andy999999999: I think I would just make a system user account and enable auto-login. |
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| 15:42.44 | greycat | If it were my project, I would probably pursue the passwordless (or "blank password" since at least one person seems to think these are conceptually different) login just to see how it's done. |
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| 15:43.39 | alkisg | greycat: if I may speak, nopasswdlogins work with any password; it's ignored. With blank password I meant a hashed '', so a valid shadow entry, not an empty one |
| 15:43.43 | BCMM | greycat: in this context: "passwordless" would mean you just click and it logs in, and "blank password" would mean you click, the password field appears, and you have to press enter with the field empty |
| 15:44.04 | greycat | I don't even use a DM, so these subtle distinctions are lost on me. |
| 15:44.11 | alkisg | You said that "noone has has tested those, we don't have documentation", and I spend a couple of weeks testing all debian and ubuntu versions about them, so I thought I'd help |
| 15:44.25 | greycat | All I know is how it works on the regular console. |
| 15:44.55 | alkisg | The test you did involved an empty shadow entry; this is different to nopasswdlogin and blank hashed passwords |
| 15:45.10 | f8e3_ | are ssh tunnels table to push data from server to client, eg with redis? |
| 15:45.15 | alkisg | With nopasswdlogin, test pass may be asdf, and you can type qwer, and it still logs in, it doesn't care |
| 15:45.16 | BCMM | greycat: in a more common context, "passwordless" means password login is completely disabled, i.e. no valid hash in /etc/shadow. as used for accounts used only by daemons or that should only be logged in to with ssh key pairs. in that context, a blank password is *also* a distinct concept. |
| 15:45.27 | greycat | You can have a forward or a reverse ssh tunnel. |
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| 15:47.09 | Andy999999999 | jhutchins_wk i'm not in rush, i might just do that for now until solution is found |
| 15:47.47 | greycat | In both cases, information (packets) flows in both directions. With a regular tunnel, the client listens for connections, and the server initiates new connections. With a reverse tunnel, the server listens for connections, and the client initiates new connections. |
| 15:48.20 | Andy999999999 | greycat BCMM alkisg - if it is possible in Arch then it should be possible in debian i think? its just as one of you said - i asked for something very uncommon to do |
| 15:48.36 | f8e3_ | what to use to get data feed from server to client embedded device (both linux) |
| 15:49.00 | greycat | I don't know what you mean by "data feed". What are you trying to do? |
| 15:49.19 | f8e3_ | i dunno ssh tunnels, rest api, websockets, i just need very simple 30s log exchange like one sentence similar to old school beepers or rss feed headlines |
| 15:49.56 | greycat | You can set up remote syslog with rsyslogd or whatever. Or you could just set up a listening service on a socket, and use netcat to talk to it. |
| 15:50.17 | greycat | I don't know why you're asking about tunnels if all you want is normal client/server comms. |
| 15:50.27 | f8e3_ | from a virtual server which process it to a embedded device like rasperry pi/zero i will build, android doesnt cut it, so some embedded device with screen and battery and now i wonder what connection that reliably querys the server, i guess on cellular the carrier is instable so no ssh i guess but what |
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| 15:52.02 | alkisg | Andy999999999: sorry, I'm not allowed to help you currently :/ |
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| 15:53.33 | maxismyname | hi, im having issues with rtl8822be. It is listed as *DISABLED in lshw. The driver listed in lspci is r8822be. When I try to ip link set wlan0 up, I get a RNETLINK permission denied (as root). Everything I find online predates 4.17 (i'm on 4.19), when the drivers were added to the linux repo. I'm at a loss regarding where to go from here. rfkill is |
| 15:53.34 | maxismyname | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:53.58 | dvs | I've never seen that driver before |
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| 15:54.35 | maxismyname | I don't recommend it :D |
| 15:55.13 | maxismyname | apparently it's rather new. Still doesn't justify not working though... |
| 15:55.19 | f8e3_ | i currently have redis pub sub on the server but its local only, so the transfer i might use syslog? or a redis consumer to rest api adapter and poll from embedded device? |
| 15:56.13 | dvs | maxismyname, you're in luck though! There's firmware for it in the firmware-realtek package |
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| 15:56.41 | Andy999999999 | maxismyname reminds me of $100 i wasted on new wlan card once... i found working drivers few yrs later when i no longer had the machine i bought it for |
| 15:56.43 | greycat | f8e3_: why can't you just set up a listening service on whatever machine is less wacky-unstable-duct-tape-crap, and use netcat to talk to it from the other one? |
| 15:56.58 | maxismyname | dvs: mad! install, reboot, pray? |
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| 15:59.01 | f8e3_ | greycat i am fully open to soltuions yet unaware of the possibilities, i guess netcat cuts it, and the stable server is an http server then iguess |
| 15:59.23 | maxismyname | This is an error I see relating to it in dmesg btw: r8822be: halmac_init_hal failed |
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| 16:02.43 | maxismyname | Fixed it, dvs. Solution is to disable aspm, whatever the heck that is. |
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| 16:05.36 | avu | f8e3_: you normally wouldn't use netcat to talk to an http server, there are more high level tools for that like wget or curl |
| 16:06.06 | greycat | He keeps moving the goalposts so rapidly that I gave up trying to understand the goal. |
| 16:06.24 | greycat | first he wanted to ask about tunnels, then he talked about logging, then he talked about other stuff... |
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| 16:09.39 | f8e3_ | i read through the netcat man and it looks like a probing tool but not the foo-tool to get a data feed from a server to an embedded device |
| 16:10.01 | f8e3_ | i really am open to any: if logging tool ok, if tunnel ok, if higher level also ok, it just needs simple |
| 16:10.35 | f8e3_ | should i open a nginx server and query via http ? |
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| 16:11.06 | greycat | Start at the beginning. What are you trying to do? |
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| 16:14.50 | f8e3_ | it all began with a smartwatch idea, an embedded device that not lets me pull out phone, but have a tiny screen on my wrist to read text line updates on forex data. now android doesnt cut it argl api screen awake power etc and abandonded to use a 4 inc smartphone on a wristband; so now i look at arduino/raspi + cellular adapter, ok hw in place, but whats the software to pull the datastrings from a redis topic |
| 16:14.52 | f8e3_ | to the wearable, if theres an update ~1min print it to tiny screen on wrist. thats idea but what sw tools |
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| 16:15.59 | greycat | So you want the wearable device to query a server periodically? |
| 16:16.14 | Andy999999999 | does anyone knows the name of the package for the .conf file editor with gui? I have use it in some distro few days ago, but i don't remember the name |
| 16:18.30 | f8e3_ | greycat yes |
| 16:18.33 | jhutchins_wk | Andy999999999: vim |
| 16:18.43 | Andy999999999 | ha ha good one :) |
| 16:19.06 | jhutchins_wk | Andy999999999: vim does have a gui mode |
| 16:19.09 | greycat | Andy999999999: seriously, learn how to use a NON-graphical text editor. Any editor. nano, vim, emacs. |
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| 16:19.33 | greycat | You will not survive without that skill. |
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| 16:21.25 | greycat | f8e3_: OK, then the main design decisions will center around what kind of information the server is providing, and *how* that information is being made available. A web server would work perfectly well. You can curl/wget from the wearable device and display whatever comes back. |
| 16:21.42 | Andy999999999 | greycat i know, in long run it is neccessary, but i can't learn everything at once right away :( to setup this box to my basics tons of conf will have 2b edited, and i don't want to f...k it up |
| 16:22.25 | jhutchins_wk | Andy999999999: There's nothing about a GUI editor that will prevent that. |
| 16:22.32 | greycat | Then use nano. It's the simplest one. |
| 16:22.55 | jhutchins_wk | Andy999999999: Vi, on the other hand, has extensions like vigr or visudo that will error-check your work. |
| 16:23.03 | Andy999999999 | first - i want to edit grub look to different resolution coz its gonna ridiculusly small on tv, and i know its done in conf |
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| 16:25.30 | humpled | grub can hide or even have no delay |
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| 16:26.44 | Andy999999999 | humpled: until i have everything set in debian i want to keep windoze too |
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| 16:29.28 | Andy999999999 | perhaps i will just keep windows for some games - completely disconnected from internet, though most games nowadays require internet so that may be a moot |
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| 16:30.44 | Andy999999999 | even a f...g solitaire wants to report to mothership lol |
| 16:32.42 | humpled | eh i didn't mention windows, anyway don't read any old docs that tell you to edit grub.conf |
| 16:33.10 | humpled | just change /etc/default/grub and run update-grub afterwards to regenerate the confs |
| 16:34.21 | jhutchins_wk | It's interesting how the level of desired customization appears to be inversely proportionate to the knowledge and experience of the user. |
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| 16:36.43 | GNU\colossus | now that was beautifully put, jhutchins_wk :^) |
| 16:36.47 | Andy999999999 | jhutchins_wk yes i have customized everything that was possible in windows, and yes my knowledge of linux is close to zero - otherwise i wouldn't ask. WEre you linux master from the crib? |
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| 16:38.32 | Andy999999999 | and btw i dont think changing resolution of boot screen to more readable is a customization, it should be really easy even for noob like me to do (am not complaining, its just observation) |
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| 16:39.32 | Andy999999999 | like F7 to make fonts larger and so on - that easy |
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| 16:40.27 | humpled | there's a limit to what you can expect grub to do, it's just a boot loader |
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| 16:41.01 | jelly | Andy999999999: the simplest way to make things larger in grub (boot loader) is probably to disable the graphic mode and let it run in 80x25 (720x400) text mode |
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| 16:42.26 | jelly | Andy999999999: if the system is booted in legacy mode not UEFI, this can be done by uncommenting #GRUB_TERMINAL=console line in /etc/default/grub |
| 16:42.39 | jelly | Andy999999999: and running update-grub command as root |
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| 16:43.06 | Andy999999999 | jelly thanks, wgat about changing this line: #GRUB_GFXMODE=640x480 to GRUB_GFXMODE=720x480 ? |
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| 16:43.44 | jelly | no, don't touch that. |
| 16:43.54 | jelly | you don't want ANY "gfx mode" |
| 16:44.08 | Andy999999999 | ok then just uncomment #GRUB_TERMINAL=console ? |
| 16:44.18 | jelly | that is literally what I wrote. |
| 16:44.25 | jelly | yes. |
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| 16:45.29 | jelly | text mode ought to appear rather huge on any modern screen |
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| 16:45.59 | Andy999999999 | ok theres no default editor here to open it with... or is there? |
| 16:46.29 | jelly | use nano if you don't have any preference |
| 16:47.14 | jelly | if you have sudo privileges set up, "sudoedit /etc/default/grub" ought to run your favorite even if it's a GUI editor |
| 16:47.28 | jelly | and if you have a favorite set |
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| 16:48.20 | Andy999999999 | ah right my user is not in "sudoers" group, maybe i should fix that first |
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| 16:49.52 | jelly | that means you don't have sudo privileges set up. To get them, make your normal user member of group sudo. As root, run: adduser username sudo, then log out completely and log back in |
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| 16:50.02 | Marsu | hi folks, i have the problem that my resolution is resettet when debian 10 restarts. How can i make the resolution permanent in wayland? |
| 16:50.06 | jelly | Andy999999999: also, sudo might not be installed at all |
| 16:50.29 | jelly | oh, sorry, it's installed if you got that "not in sudoers" message |
| 16:50.42 | jelly | This incident will be reported!! |
| 16:51.09 | Andy999999999 | jelly: im doing it as root, it opened in terminal itself, i have uncommented that line but not sure how to save it now |
| 16:51.33 | Andy999999999 | ^O or ^0 to "write out" ? |
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| 16:52.47 | humpled | o |
| 16:52.54 | jelly | ^ is shorthand for Control pressed together with some other key |
| 16:53.17 | Andy999999999 | ok, so ctrl+o, right? |
| 16:53.20 | jelly | so control-o, then control-x I suppose |
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| 16:53.53 | jelly | possibly Enter to confirm the file name after control-o |
| 16:54.12 | Andy999999999 | File name to write: /var/temp/grub.XXx6Zenr - it changed the filename? |
| 16:54.21 | jelly | that's okay |
| 16:54.54 | Andy999999999 | ok done, thank you |
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| 16:55.11 | greycat | "vipw" and "visudo" and "vigr" all make a copy of the original file, launch an editor for the copy, and then perform a basic syntax check on the saved results before copying the copy back to the original |
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| 16:55.27 | jelly | many tools use a temporary file when doing changes to an existing file |
| 16:55.43 | Andy999999999 | what happened with filename - it made a temp copy first, thats why it had those extra characters in the name? |
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| 16:55.57 | greycat | yes, you were editing the copy |
| 16:56.05 | Andy999999999 | hah just when i typed u answered guys, thannks |
| 16:56.15 | jelly | in sudoedit's case, this is necessary to separate privileges for running an editor, from privileges to modify a system file |
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| 16:56.31 | Andy999999999 | ok i get it |
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| 16:56.52 | becks` | hi, what's the easiest way to create a vpn-like tunnel from windows to debian, without encryption? |
| 16:57.18 | jelly | becks`: what do you mean by "vpn-like"? |
| 16:57.32 | Andy999999999 | going to test how it looks, thanks again for all help in case i'm not back (if it crashed lol) |
| 16:57.49 | jelly | Andy999999999: don't forget to run update-grub |
| 16:57.59 | Andy999999999 | oh, what is that |
| 16:58.08 | becks` | jelly by that I mean there's a client I can start on windows, connect to the server and use the server's ip address in the internet |
| 16:58.08 | Andy999999999 | thx god i didnt reboot yet lol |
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| 16:58.38 | jhutchins_wk | putty |
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| 16:59.48 | jelly | becks`: an ssh client like putty usually has socks-proxy capability. They call it Dynamic Forwarding |
| 16:59.57 | Andy999999999 | jelly i ran update-grub, but it only showed me that it detected window on other partitions, whicjh it already had before? |
| 17:00.07 | Andy999999999 | i mean Windows |
| 17:00.12 | becks` | thanks guys! |
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| 17:00.46 | greycat | Andy999999999: well, that's good then. |
| 17:00.57 | jelly | Andy999999999: update-grub reads stuff from the file you edited, reads stuff from disk partitions, and generates ACTUAL grub config file |
| 17:01.03 | SerajewelKS | becks`: note that there is encryption -- you said "without encryption" but with an SSH tunnel there will be encryption necessarily as the tunneled stream is encapsulated in the encryption SSH connection. |
| 17:01.13 | Andy999999999 | is there anything else to update- or run before i reboot? |
| 17:01.15 | SerajewelKS | encrypted* SSH connection |
| 17:01.21 | jelly | Andy999999999: that was it |
| 17:01.36 | Andy999999999 | ok (hopefully) brb ;) |
| 17:01.41 | Andy999999999 | thanks |
| 17:01.44 | becks` | true that.. too bad it's not possible with telnet ;D |
| 17:02.02 | SerajewelKS | becks`: i'm not sure why the absence of encryption would be desired, though |
| 17:02.14 | SerajewelKS | becks`: if you told us more about your use case perhaps we could recommend a better tool |
| 17:02.26 | jelly | becks`: using ssh is the simplest way, there are less simple ways to do this without encryption |
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| 17:02.55 | jelly | like installing an actual proxy on the server and using that |
| 17:03.15 | SerajewelKS | or, if it's for a single connection, a systemd TCP proxy |
| 17:03.25 | becks` | since the traffic itself is already encrypted, I would prefer an unencrypted tunnel for performance reasons |
| 17:03.54 | SerajewelKS | becks`: right, so describe your use case. for example how many simultaneous connections, do they all go to the same endpoint from the server, etc. |
| 17:04.01 | jelly | becks`: performance reasons should be considered if you already see a bottleneck. |
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| 17:04.29 | jelly | becks`: is anything slow already, doing an ssh -D (putty equivalent) tunnel? |
| 17:06.20 | jelly | becks`: in putty, Connection -> SSH -> Tunnels -> enter a source port number, like 55555, pick Dynamic, then connect to your server using ssh |
| 17:06.27 | becks` | haven't tried it yet, will do now :) thanks! |
| 17:06.42 | Marsu | hi folks, i have the problem that my resolution is resettet when debian 10 restarts. How can i make the resolution permanent in wayland? |
| 17:06.55 | jelly | after that, configure your tool (eg. a web browser) to use a socks proxy on localhost on the chosen port |
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| 17:07.22 | SerajewelKS | becks`: as an example, if the client doesn't want to do SOCKS, and the final destination is always the same, in theory you can use a systemd proxy on the server. this also assumes that you don't need authentication on the proxy, or can restrict it at the network level. one of the benefits of ssh tunneling is that authentication is built-in. |
| 17:07.44 | SerajewelKS | becks`: you may also want to use a non-dynamic tunnel if the client doesn't do SOCKS and the remote endpoint does not change |
| 17:08.00 | SerajewelKS | basically we don't have enough information to make an informed recommendation |
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| 17:08.36 | jelly | SerajewelKS: which is why I did not consider telling the user who wanted access to "internet" about nc or redir or your systemd tcp forwarder thingy that I did not even know existed |
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| 17:10.05 | jelly | or even configuring the server as a router with nat ;-) |
| 17:11.13 | jelly | which is technically the most correctest way to get to the internet without encryption! |
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| 17:18.03 | aNewUser | nick Andy9 |
| 17:18.11 | greycat | more slashes |
| 17:18.16 | jelly | / |
| 17:18.17 | aNewUser | ha ha yes |
| 17:18.45 | jelly | hello there new user that we've never seen before. |
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| 17:19.17 | Andy9 | it worked great. Though grub looks now like ugliest DOS window |
| 17:19.43 | Andy9 | but its ok, it will be easy to read on tv screen |
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| 17:20.19 | Bushmills | shorten boot delay, then you won't see it for long |
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| 17:20.54 | Andy9 | yeah good idea, i had 3sec only in windows boot loader too |
| 17:21.58 | Bushmills | you may enjoy the console, which look like much prettier DOS |
| 17:22.12 | Andy9 | that i have noticed ;) |
| 17:22.22 | tsujp | Would running `service network restart` drop current connections? |
| 17:22.51 | kreyren | ,v mysql_config |
| 17:22.52 | judd | No package named 'mysql_config' was found in amd64. |
| 17:22.56 | kreyren | ,file mysql_config |
| 17:22.56 | greycat | is there even a service named "network"? |
| 17:23.01 | judd | Search for mysql_config in buster/amd64: libmariadb-dev-compat: usr/bin/mysql_config |
| 17:23.05 | greycat | Unit network.service could not be found. |
| 17:23.09 | kreyren | judd, ty luv ,3 |
| 17:23.14 | Andy9 | i dont mind the look as long as something work, actually u may shrug but i always like minimalist Windows 2000 look lol |
| 17:23.18 | greycat | So, I'm fairly confident that it won't do anything, at least not in buster. |
| 17:23.53 | Andy9 | xfce kind of reminds that Win2000 look |
| 17:24.15 | Bushmills | shell under linux, and unix in general are much much more powerful than anything you could wish of MSDOS command.com |
| 17:24.24 | tsujp | hmm |
| 17:25.07 | greycat | tsujp: you might be looking for "networking" (the service name). I don't know what happens if you restart that on a live system. It might bring all the interfaces down and back up, which might be ... interrupt-y. |
| 17:25.10 | Andy9 | one rather important question: does terminal always launch by itself on logon? |
| 17:25.22 | jelly | kreyren: did you know? judd's also available in: /msg judd file mysql_config |
| 17:25.31 | kreyren | jelly, lazy |
| 17:25.37 | Bushmills | not necessarily |
| 17:25.55 | Bushmills | !dm |
| 17:25.56 | dpkg | DM means Display Manager, the app that brings up a graphical login screen and starts your login session. <lightdm>, <gdm3>, <xdm>, <kdm>, <wdm>, pdm, login.app and <slim> are all examples of display managers. Ask me about <nodm> if you want to disable the DM. Or Debian Maintainer: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMaintainer . For the deb-multimedia repository, ask me about <dmm>. |
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| 17:27.46 | Andy9 | !conky |
| 17:27.46 | Marsu | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:27.46 | dpkg | Conky is a highly configurable system monitor for X based on torsmo. http://conky.sf.net/faq.html http://conky.wikia.com/ http://conky.sf.net/ #conky on irc.freenode.net. |
| 17:27.52 | kreyren | is it sane to use apt-cache file in script assuming that i'm checking if libmariadb-dev-compat is available since script needs mysql_config on debian? |
| 17:28.02 | kreyren | apt always complains about beeing used in a script |
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| 17:28.13 | jelly | what's apt-cache file? |
| 17:28.18 | greycat | dpkg, dm =~ s/<xdm>/<xdm>, sddm/ |
| 17:28.18 | dpkg | greycat: OK |
| 17:28.22 | jelly | do you mean apt-file? |
| 17:28.57 | kreyren | jelly, yep |
| 17:29.14 | Bushmills | factoid can be misunderstood: "ask me ... or debian maintainer..." |
| 17:29.15 | greycat | I shouldn't do this, but I'm going to do it anyway... WHY are you writing a script that queries the "avaialability" of packages? |
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| 17:31.05 | SpeedyG | haha @greycat... those questions where you dont even wanna know the answer :P |
| 17:31.25 | jelly | kreyren: and what is the script going to do if there is more than ONE package providing a file? |
| 17:31.36 | jelly | ,file bin/mysql_client --release stretch |
| 17:31.40 | judd | No packages in stretch/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 17:31.51 | jelly | ,file bin/mysql_config --release stretch |
| 17:31.56 | judd | Search for bin/mysql_config in stretch/amd64: libmariadbclient-dev: usr/bin/mysql_config; libmariadb-dev-compat: usr/bin/mysql_config |
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| 17:32.05 | jelly | oh look. There's two. |
| 17:32.27 | kreyren | jelly, what do you suggest then? it's expected that if KREYREN variable is not blank -> fix itself |
| 17:32.43 | greycat | kreyren: we suggest that you please explain what you are trying to do. |
| 17:32.43 | kreyren | maybe just outputing msg should be enough hinting on apt-file O.o |
| 17:32.48 | jelly | kreyren: perhaps tell us what your goal is. |
| 17:33.04 | jelly | "I'm looking for package providing X because ... ?" |
| 17:33.12 | kreyren | jelly, if `mysql_config` executable is missing -> install it using apt |
| 17:33.27 | kreyren | because it's required for `lets` which is dependency for ripple that i'm working on https://github.com/Uniminin/Ripple-Auto-Installer |
| 17:33.41 | greycat | kreyren: how should it decide which package to install? |
| 17:33.53 | Bushmills | there's a package, installable, doing exactly that. but i forgot its name |
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| 17:34.20 | kreyren | greycat, dunno probably some logic would be required to add for script to decide which package to pull? |
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| 17:34.33 | kreyren | like if package A is pulled -> install package 2 etc.. |
| 17:34.37 | greycat | command-not-found - Suggest installation of packages in interactive bash sessions |
| 17:34.40 | greycat | that one, maybe? |
| 17:34.41 | kreyren | (this is overengineering of script) |
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| 17:35.00 | kreyren | i would like to avoid interactive bash when possible |
| 17:35.12 | greycat | kreyren: by the time you add that, you might as well just say "if x is missing, install y". A nice hard-coded associative array. |
| 17:35.16 | Andy9 | guys need help. After i locked screen it turned black and i couldnt get back, no clicking or any key could get me back, i had to crash it and reboot |
| 17:35.43 | jelly | kreyren: best installers on Debian come in .deb format and are available from an apt repo for each specific distro release. They are not scripts. They Depends: on packages they need. |
| 17:35.54 | greycat | (or nested lists, in languages that have nested lists, which bash is not) |
| 17:36.21 | Andy9 | Also terminal is in some kind of autorun setting, it opened on login again |
| 17:36.54 | jelly | kreyren: I you really have to, keep an associative array with supported releases and a set of packages to install for each. |
| 17:36.57 | kreyren | greycat, jelly i see, will investigate thanks for suggestions |
| 17:37.03 | jelly | if* |
| 17:37.18 | greycat | jelly: oh god, there's a THIRD dimension? Different releases? That can't be done in a single associative array, then. |
| 17:37.32 | Bushmills | greycat: i suppose that's the one |
| 17:37.42 | jelly | stretch? Install foo and bar. xenial? Install fooold and bar12. Etc. |
| 17:37.56 | greycat | jelly: oh, without the probing of files. Removing one of the dimensions. |
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| 17:38.09 | Sora | hi how do I update gcc on debian 9 |
| 17:38.14 | greycat | You dont. |
| 17:38.18 | Sora | ok |
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| 17:38.33 | jelly | unsupported (distro, release)? Bail out and point to documentation and how to file bugs. |
| 17:38.42 | Andy9 | when you lock screen how do you unlock later? |
| 17:38.44 | BazookaTooth | Andy9: xfce settings > terminal is under session/startup and locking screen is under power manager |
| 17:38.54 | Andy9 | ok thx |
| 17:39.33 | greycat | Sora: The current stable release is Debian 10, which has gcc 8.3.0. If you need newer than that, then we can talk about it.... |
| 17:39.44 | jelly | greycat: now it was me who almost asked "why" |
| 17:39.48 | de-facto | Dang i lost all the files matching tar --exclude=data on my system. can i repair with debsums? |
| 17:39.53 | Sora | ok upgrade to 10 |
| 17:40.01 | Sora | why does 9 have like 4.6 that doesnt even know what avx512 is |
| 17:40.06 | greycat | ,v gcc |
| 17:40.07 | judd | Package: gcc on amd64 -- jessie: 4:4.9.2-2; stretch: 4:6.3.0-4; bullseye: 4:8.3.0-1; buster: 4:8.3.0-1; sid: 4:9.2.1-1 |
| 17:40.12 | greycat | Debian 9 has gcc 6.3.0 |
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| 17:40.33 | jelly | ,v gcc-snapshot |
| 17:40.34 | judd | Package: gcc-snapshot on amd64 -- sid: 1:20190719-1 |
| 17:40.53 | Andy9 | BazookaTooth: in session/startup i don't have terminal to autorun, unless it is there under some other name? |
| 17:41.04 | Sora | does someone have an upgade guide that isn't terrible |
| 17:41.32 | greycat | https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html |
| 17:41.39 | jelly | Sora: are the official release notes terrible? |
| 17:41.41 | BazookaTooth | Andy9: if you had a terminal open and saved the session on logout, that's usually where it comes from |
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| 17:41.54 | Sora | thx |
| 17:41.56 | *** join/#debian patterson (~patterson@73.96.107.32) |
| 17:41.57 | Sora | no google just doesn't show that |
| 17:42.01 | de-facto | how can i check for lost systemfiles with debsums -ac ? |
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| 17:42.59 | Andy9 | BazookaTooth: ic, thx. Now with lock screen, when you lock it and screen turns black how do you get screen back? |
| 17:43.27 | greycat | did you try pressing some keys? |
| 17:43.42 | jelly | Andy9: it unblanks once you move the mouse or press any key |
| 17:43.54 | greycat | I like to press Shift or Ctrl, and then I get frustrated when that fails to work on Windows. |
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| 17:44.26 | greycat | Whatever they're using on Windows 7 here, it requires a non-modifier key. |
| 17:44.39 | Andy9 | greycat: i tried ALL of them lol, and moving and clicking mouse too ofcoz lol! screen remained black and later powered off itself (as it should after 30sec) that's why i had to crash it |
| 17:45.02 | greycat | driver/firmware issues? |
| 17:45.17 | jelly | Andy9: that's not expected behaviour |
| 17:45.26 | Andy9 | jelly i thought so |
| 17:48.14 | Andy9 | i'm looking at xfce power manager, it has very few options there and nothing is unusual there; where else should i look for this? |
| 17:48.36 | greycat | Missing firmware is the first thing I would check for. |
| 17:48.44 | greycat | dmesg | grep -i firmware |
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| 17:49.07 | Andy9 | also "switch user" is still greyed out even though there are 2 user accts now |
| 17:49.38 | greycat | https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=12039 |
| 17:49.47 | greycat | first or second google result, I know nothing about this |
| 17:49.51 | Andy9 | greycat: dmesg: read kernel buffer failed: Operation not permitted |
| 17:49.56 | greycat | as root. |
| 17:49.59 | Andy9 | guess as root again? |
| 17:50.30 | Andy9 | -bash: dmesg:: command not found |
| 17:51.01 | greycat | too many colons. did you type one? |
| 17:51.09 | Andy9 | nope i pasted it |
| 17:51.19 | greycat | you pasted it from the error that contained "dmesg:" ? |
| 17:51.23 | Andy9 | it has two colons |
| 17:51.29 | Andy9 | yes |
| 17:51.35 | greycat | dmesg | grep -i firmware |
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| 17:52.04 | Andy9 | [ 0.264488] Spectre V2 : Enabling Restricted Speculation for firmware calls |
| 17:52.10 | Andy9 | how come now it works? |
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| 17:54.21 | Andy9 | greycat what is this spectre i have enabled? |
| 17:54.26 | greycat | !spectre |
| 17:54.26 | dpkg | i guess spectre is https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2017-5753 https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2017-5715 |
| 17:54.37 | Andy9 | ah yes use "!" :) |
| 17:54.39 | greycat | codename for some CPU vulnerabilities |
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| 17:55.03 | jelly | that's unrelated to any actual firmware issue, and just a notification about a kernel feature being activated by default |
| 17:55.10 | greycat | I wouldn't worry about that right now -- look for errors like "I tried to load this file and it failed" |
| 17:55.36 | S3xyL1nux | âyou all piece of shit |
| 17:55.42 | S3xyL1nux | âban kick me quick |
| 17:55.44 | greycat | successful firmware loading would look like [ 3.924919] [drm] Finished loading DMC firmware i915/skl_dmc_ver1_27.bin (v1.27) |
| 17:55.47 | *** mode/#debian [+o jelly] by ChanServ |
| 17:55.48 | *** part/#debian S3xyL1nux (~lenard@39.116.65.245) |
| 17:55.48 | *** mode/#debian [+b *!*@39.116.65.245$##arguments] by jelly |
| 17:55.50 | *** mode/#debian [-o jelly] by ChanServ |
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| 17:56.37 | Andy9 | greycat then what is wrong here? |
| 17:56.57 | greycat | does your computer really not load (or try to load) *any* firmware? |
| 17:57.24 | *** mode/#debian [-o jelly] by ChanServ |
| 17:58.06 | Andy9 | greycat i don't know; at this moment i'm not sure do i understand the term "firmware" correctly (which to me is a software loaded to chip on pci card or phone etc) |
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| 17:58.32 | greycat | were there any other lines besides the Spectre one? |
| 17:58.51 | Andy9 | no, only this 1 line i pasted earlier |
| 17:59.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1572] by debhelper |
| 17:59.04 | jelly | Andy9: which brand and model is this machine? |
| 17:59.04 | greycat | Maybe it's a *really* old computer. |
| 17:59.25 | jelly | if branded and not a whitebox |
| 17:59.26 | Andy9 | but if i understand correctly, "firmware" is also i.e. BIOS of this mobo, right? It should be listed? |
| 17:59.46 | greycat | dmesg only shows firmware loaded by the kernel, so it wouldn't cover motherboard firmware |
| 18:00.04 | greycat | we're specifically wondering whether your video chipset is missing some |
| 18:00.08 | Andy9 | its old, yes Dell make, mini or medium desktop, hold on |
| 18:00.22 | Andy9 | OptiPlex 7010 |
| 18:00.31 | Andy9 | roughly 6-7 yrs old |
| 18:01.17 | Andy9 | ah video it has only the one that come with cpu chipset, whatchamacallit - Intel HD Graphics |
| 18:01.54 | jelly | not _that_ old, then, but intel sandybridge gpu might be old enough not to load any firmware by default |
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| 18:02.26 | Andy9 | ok i look it up its ivy bridge, intel hd graphics 2500 |
| 18:02.32 | jelly | and still new enough to be reasonably well supported |
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| 18:02.36 | Andy9 | i5-3550 |
| 18:02.46 | jelly | ivybridge is one gen later |
| 18:03.21 | Andy9 | ok maybe sandy, i looked for 3550's graphics version |
| 18:03.32 | greycat | lspci -nn might be informative |
| 18:03.33 | humpled | both sand and ivy seem like poor things to make a bridge out of |
| 18:03.37 | Andy9 | tiny.cc/core-i5-3550 |
| 18:03.38 | jelly | can confirm my ivybridge workstation at work also shows no "firmware" lines |
| 18:04.02 | Andy9 | Ivy Bridge |
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| 18:04.19 | jelly | other than that one above |
| 18:04.25 | Andy9 | greycat as root againn i guess? |
| 18:04.34 | greycat | doesn't matter this time |
| 18:05.00 | Andy9 | alot of info, cant paste here... |
| 18:05.07 | greycat | http://paste.debian.net/ |
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| 18:06.01 | laidback_01 | hey, if a VLAN is working, eg, the switch is correctly untagging and tagging packets as needed |
| 18:06.22 | laidback_01 | will I be able to install Debian from netinst on said VLAN? |
| 18:06.26 | Andy9 | http://paste.debian.net/1096722/ |
| 18:06.27 | jelly | Andy9: if the system has old BIOS it might have some known bugs with intel gpu that might require some additional boot kernel parameters to work around |
| 18:06.53 | laidback_01 | or to even install, do you need any extra modules to run on a VLAN? |
| 18:06.55 | jelly | laidback_01: I don't remember whether Debian 10 has vlan support in the installer. Debian 9 did not. |
| 18:07.07 | Andy9 | jelly actually i updated BIOS to latest recently when i found there was newer one at Dell site (2018) |
| 18:07.11 | Sora | >File descriptor 13 (/dev/pts/8) leaked on lvs invocation. Parent PID 111796: /bin/sh |
| 18:07.15 | Sora | this while upgrading to 10 |
| 18:07.15 | jelly | 2018, fancy |
| 18:07.18 | Sora | anything to worry about? |
| 18:07.27 | Andy9 | jelly yes, i was surprised |
| 18:07.43 | laidback_01 | jelly, ah, ok, good to know. thanks |
| 18:08.38 | de-facto | how can i check my buster installation for missing files? |
| 18:08.49 | de-facto | i tried debsums -ac |
| 18:08.50 | jelly | laidback_01: can you temporarily put the switch port into access mode (untagged), install debian, then ifdown enwhatever, edit /etc/network/interfaces, replace enwhatever with enwhatever.VLANIDNUMBER |
| 18:09.24 | jelly | laidback_01: ... and reconfigure the port back into trunk with tagged vlan and ifup eno1.42, or reboot |
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| 18:09.44 | laidback_01 | not my switch - at a hospital. I'll figure out something else. heh |
| 18:10.39 | jelly | judd: bug 433568 |
| 18:10.41 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/433568 in netcfg (open, d-i, patch): «add vlan support»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2007-07-17; last modified: 2019-01-12. |
| 18:10.56 | jelly | 2007. open. sorry. |
| 18:11.03 | Andy9 | what was the command to add user to sudoers group? "user -aG [user] sudo" ? |
| 18:11.11 | greycat | adduser username sudo |
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| 18:11.36 | jelly | ^ easier to remember than usermod -aG sudo username |
| 18:11.43 | greycat | that's Debian specific, by the way ... whatever source your -aG answer came from was probably intended for other systems |
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| 18:11.59 | Andy9 | ic, thx |
| 18:12.02 | de-facto | Andy9, i think sudo usermod -aG <group> <user> |
| 18:12.26 | greycat | I'm sure it'll *work*, but I'll never bother to remember it |
| 18:12.26 | de-facto | oh i was too slow typing |
| 18:12.33 | Andy9 | done :) thx |
| 18:12.39 | jelly | de-facto: if sudo works for them they probably don't need to usermod, eh? |
| 18:12.40 | fearnothing | how do I verify if a particular package was installed by apt or from source, or something else? |
| 18:12.42 | greycat | if I want anything more portable than adduser, I'll just edit /etc/group by hand |
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| 18:12.59 | jelly | by hand, like a common peasant?! |
| 18:13.02 | greycat | fearnothing: dpkg -S somefilename |
| 18:13.04 | jelly | at least vigr |
| 18:13.12 | greycat | vigr is still by hand |
| 18:13.25 | de-facto | jelly, well depends on the current login i guess, but i added sudo just to make sure |
| 18:13.42 | fearnothing | greycat - thanks :) |
| 18:13.44 | Andy9 | greycat you do know there is a thing called gui since around 1970's right? :P |
| 18:13.53 | greycat | I'm using a GUI right now. |
| 18:14.00 | Andy9 | 8)) |
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| 18:14.09 | jelly | probably a GUI from the 1990s! |
| 18:14.13 | Andy9 | lol |
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| 18:16.13 | Andy9 | im probably wrong but imho there has to be something missing if locking screen disable kbd and mouse, or makes it not being read |
| 18:16.40 | omarek | Hi, I'm recovering a hard drive with broken GPT. I cloned it with dd onto a 5TiB flash drive. I'm puzzled that system doesn't stop booting at the same spot. Is it to be expected? |
| 18:17.02 | Andy9 | 5TB flash? wow |
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| 18:17.44 | omarek | I'm worried. The drive with damaged backup GPT header was tested with smartctl -t long, and no errors were found whatsover. |
| 18:17.51 | jelly | Andy9: do you have a second machine on the same network, and if so can you ping the debian system when it goes blank? |
| 18:18.14 | jhutchins_wk | omarek: So probably not a hardware problem. |
| 18:18.24 | omarek | Andy9: USB 3.0, still takes hours to make a backup of a 4TiB hard drive. |
| 18:18.25 | jelly | Andy9: and if you can, can you install openssh-server on debian, and log in remotely via ssh when it happens? |
| 18:18.38 | greycat | Andy9: as jelly said, this isn't normal behavior. Could be a hardware/firmware bug of some kind, video driver bug, etc. Personally I would just disable the screen locker/saver until you can figure out the details. |
| 18:18.40 | omarek | jhutchins_wk: but why does the drive and its clone stop booting at different spots? |
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| 18:19.05 | omarek | jhutchins_wk: The original drive stops at "Alert! UUID=blah-blah-blah does not exist. Dropping to a shell!" |
| 18:19.19 | jelly | omarek: only the backup GPT is problematic, the first one is fine? |
| 18:19.28 | omarek | The cloned drive stops booting at [OK] Reached target Network is ONline |
| 18:19.36 | omarek | Then it goes "You are in emergency mode". |
| 18:19.46 | omarek | jelly: gdisk says so. |
| 18:19.56 | Andy9 | jelly: i do, greycat: this is important, as tv is plasma screen and it would get screenburns if i don't set up PC to go to screensaver after 1min of inactivity and go blank after next few min |
| 18:20.06 | jelly | realizes he does not actually know which GPT is primary, the one at the beginning or the one at the end of disk |
| 18:20.11 | omarek | I figured out the original drive has HPA enabled, but I was afraid to disable it without a full backup I have now. |
| 18:20.24 | omarek | Actually the drive I cloned onto also has HPA enabled. |
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| 18:20.50 | omarek | And gdisk complains about "partition larger than the disk", which - as I googled - happens with HPA enabled. |
| 18:21.38 | omarek | My plan is now, to disable HPA on the flash clone of the hard drive, and repair GPT with gdisk. Any better ideas? |
| 18:21.49 | jelly | omarek: are there more clues when you erase the "quiet" kernel boot parameter in grub? |
| 18:22.25 | omarek | jelly: Haven't tried that yet. Should I try no quiet with the original drive, or the flash clone? |
| 18:22.44 | jelly | why not both |
| 18:23.06 | omarek | Also, it's strange that the original drive appears as only a single partition in lsblk and similar tools (due to protective MBR), but the dd clone on flash mounts with no problem... |
| 18:23.12 | jelly | does "HPA" shrink the effective disk size a little? |
| 18:23.20 | omarek | jelly: Yes, it does. |
| 18:23.35 | de-facto | how can i check debian for health? i guess some files could be missing... |
| 18:24.08 | de-facto | systemctl and journalctl look fine, aswell as debsums -ac |
| 18:24.13 | de-facto | anything else i could check? |
| 18:24.27 | omarek | jelly: Okay, I will test both. Then I will try turning off HPA and fixing GPT with gdisk. |
| 18:24.32 | jelly | de-facto: if you have a recent backup of the whole system, compare which files exist? |
| 18:24.48 | omarek | (it wouldn't let me to write fixed GPT with gdisk because of the "partition too big" error) |
| 18:24.59 | de-facto | i dont, i restored from a corrupted backup where glob "data" was left out |
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| 18:25.18 | de-facto | jelly, thats why i have to check for everything that contains "data" pattern |
| 18:25.25 | jelly | omarek: it might be prudent to keep the exact disk size as it is on the original. Is this disk connected to some sort of hw raid array? |
| 18:25.37 | omarek | jelly: I read the GPT at the end of the disk is backup GPT. |
| 18:25.55 | omarek | jelly: No, but I keep getting that question. |
| 18:26.02 | jelly | de-facto: so files and dirs named precisely "data" would be missing? |
| 18:26.42 | de-facto | jelly, i made an error and did tar ... --exclude=data instead of --exclude=/data/ |
| 18:26.48 | de-facto | now thats all i can restore from |
| 18:27.05 | de-facto | so all files matching tar --exclude=data will be missing |
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| 18:27.23 | pasiz | primary gpt is the first partition table at beginning (just after mbr). That's the reason why secondary corrupts on dd to another drive |
| 18:27.23 | jelly | de-facto: do you have a locate database, that is, a backup thereof? |
| 18:27.24 | omarek | jelly: this superuser question is very similar to my problem https://superuser.com/questions/560682/how-to-fix-a-corruptedtoo-big-gpt |
| 18:27.46 | de-facto | jelly, not sure what you mean by that |
| 18:27.56 | omarek | Do you know a tool that can repair GPT and is not confused by GPT? |
| 18:27.58 | jelly | de-facto: do you have "locate" command present? |
| 18:28.03 | omarek | (not confused by HPA!!!) |
| 18:28.18 | de-facto | yes that was installed |
| 18:28.35 | de-facto | but i think i never used it |
| 18:28.40 | jelly | de-facto: oh. Try "locate -E" |
| 18:28.44 | pasiz | omarek: gparted can repair secondary table easily |
| 18:28.54 | omarek | pasiz: The secondary GPT was corrupted in the first place before I cloned it. |
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| 18:29.32 | pasiz | omarek: first is still intact on clone |
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| 18:29.49 | jelly | de-facto: apparently at least some versions of locate (there's at least 2-3 different implementation in each debian release) does what you're asking |
| 18:30.10 | de-facto | jelly, so what does "locate -E data" tell me? the last index state? |
| 18:30.10 | jelly | -E [...] Only print out such names that currently do not exist (instead of such names that existed when the database was created). |
| 18:30.22 | omarek | pasiz: when I launch 'gparted' it pops up "Invalid argument during seek for read on /dev/sda" |
| 18:30.33 | greycat | it tells you "you should read the manual" |
| 18:30.53 | greycat | however, my locate(1) in buster hasn't got a -E |
| 18:31.16 | jelly | de-facto: locate keeps a database of all the file paths that existed at some point, refreshed daily |
| 18:31.42 | de-facto | thats super smart actually :)) |
| 18:32.12 | pasiz | omarek: should say that your backup gpt is corrupted if that's only problem on your disk |
| 18:32.25 | de-facto | so i think that could narrow it down to some /usr/share/icons/hicolor/* paths |
| 18:32.26 | jelly | de-facto: if you can manage to tell it to display the whole database, you can hunt for a) possibly affected paths or if -E option exists, b) it will say which ones are missing right now |
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| 18:32.30 | snooky | hi all |
| 18:32.30 | snooky | How can I listen to an event? So how can I z.b. run a script when a usb is inserted? |
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| 18:33.12 | jelly | de-facto: caveats: some paths are excluded when generating the locatedb |
| 18:33.16 | de-facto | jelly i ran "locate -E" which wanted a pattern so i ran "locate -E data" |
| 18:33.33 | greycat | fees left out |
| 18:33.41 | SerajewelKS | snooky: "udevadm monitor" could be of use, though you're going to have to be more specific about what you're trying to accomplish |
| 18:33.45 | pasiz | omarek: also you could use gdisk and see, if your partitions seem ok (p), if so, then write with (w) |
| 18:33.48 | greycat | how come my locate doesn't have this option and everyone else's does? |
| 18:33.50 | omarek | Hmm I launched gparted but clicked ignore/cancel on proposals to fix GPT. However now when I examine the clone in gdisk it says GPT is 'present', not damaged. Confused. |
| 18:33.54 | omarek | Stuff is changing behind my back. |
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| 18:34.19 | greycat | ,file bin/locate |
| 18:34.19 | jelly | snooky: which language has z.b. for eg. (e.g.)? :-) |
| 18:34.21 | de-facto | jelly so "locate -E data" shows me all missing files that match "data" pattern? |
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| 18:34.24 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 18:34.35 | snooky | SerajewelKS, as with a radio or media receiver or kodi. if you plug in a stick this should be searched for music files and then an advertisement to be started |
| 18:34.41 | snooky | jelly, bash |
| 18:34.44 | jelly | de-facto: I don't know what kind of pattern tar uses. locate uses substrings by default. |
| 18:35.08 | jelly | de-facto: substring match across the full path, to be precise |
| 18:35.10 | SerajewelKS | snooky: doesn't kodi have something to do this already? |
| 18:35.18 | de-facto | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:35.34 | snooky | SerajewelKS, yes.. but i dont use kodi.. that was as example |
| 18:35.39 | snooky | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/65891/how-to-execute-a-shellscript-when-i-plug-in-a-usb-device |
| 18:35.42 | snooky | this the right? |
| 18:35.44 | jelly | de-facto: file _name_? Presumably. |
| 18:36.06 | jelly | de-facto: I've never used -E. |
| 18:36.07 | SerajewelKS | snooky: again, possibly, depending on what you're trying to accomplish |
| 18:36.11 | de-facto | yes of course i meant that |
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| 18:36.16 | pasiz | snooky: udev rules is quite good for that |
| 18:36.22 | SerajewelKS | snooky: you've given us examples of what you _might_ want to do at some point but you haven't actually told us what you're trying to do |
| 18:36.22 | de-facto | jelly thats extremely helpful, i think i found something to fix |
| 18:36.37 | jelly | de-facto: my idea was to ask locate to show all the files, then compare to current state |
| 18:37.02 | jelly | de-facto: also, I don't know how to "ask locate to show all the files" :-) |
| 18:37.24 | jelly | locate '*' ? |
| 18:37.31 | de-facto | yeah but i guess those with "data" in their name should be enough for me already |
| 18:37.34 | greycat | jelly: out of curiosity, what does your /etc/alternatives/locate point to? |
| 18:37.41 | SerajewelKS | snooky: hypothetical questions will yield hypothetical answers |
| 18:37.49 | snooky | a stick is inserted write in file foobar "stick on XXXX connected to XXXX" and that every time a stick is connected. so every time a stick is plugged in "execute script foobar.sh" |
| 18:38.08 | SerajewelKS | ...what? |
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| 18:38.19 | pasiz | snooky: udev rules are best for that |
| 18:38.22 | greycat | That's two completely different things, neither of which sounds SPECIFIC or CONCRETE. |
| 18:38.38 | jelly | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 May 13 2009 /etc/alternatives/locate -> /usr/bin/locate.findutils |
| 18:38.55 | jelly | (on stretch) |
| 18:39.50 | snooky | SerajewelKS, => https://nopaste.linux-dev.org/?1235920 |
| 18:40.01 | de-facto | indeed i had to "dpkg -S /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/stock/data" to find out that i had to "apt install --reinstall hicolor-icon-theme" |
| 18:40.12 | jelly | that wasn't much data |
| 18:40.17 | jelly | hides |
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| 18:40.22 | de-facto | yet it was missing |
| 18:40.27 | *** part/#debian cbthree (~cbthree@144.red-80-28-220.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
| 18:40.29 | de-facto | so it fixed a corruption |
| 18:40.46 | Andy9 | my system has no acpi-support installed; could this be related to problem with lock screen? |
| 18:40.49 | SerajewelKS | snooky: you just want a log of when things are plugged? syslog should already have that logged. |
| 18:41.02 | snooky | SerajewelKS, that was an example |
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| 18:41.13 | SerajewelKS | *plonk* |
| 18:41.16 | snooky | i only want => usb stick plugged in => RUN SCRIPT |
| 18:41.19 | greycat | same. |
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| 18:41.33 | Habbie | snooky, 'udev' comes to mind but i'm not sure it's -exactly- the right term - but it might help your googling |
| 18:41.40 | SerajewelKS | okay then *hypothetically* you use udev rules. that's as specific as i can get with such a vague question. |
| 18:41.51 | Habbie | snooky, oh, that was mentioned already |
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| 18:42.21 | pasiz | snooky: create udev rule that runs your script when that stick is inserted, is it hard to understand? |
| 18:42.21 | de-facto | hmm and locate -E '*' also shows me "/etc/modules-load.d/modules.conf" |
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| 18:44.38 | jelly | de-facto: does that path belong to any package? |
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| 18:45.13 | greycat | systemd: /etc/modules-load.d/modules.conf |
| 18:45.16 | jelly | if it does, you may want to reinstall it |
| 18:45.40 | de-facto | nope its a symlink to /etc/modules file content i guess |
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| 18:46.07 | jelly | de-facto: does the symlink itself exist right now? (not the file it points to) |
| 18:46.16 | de-facto | yes exactly |
| 18:46.26 | de-facto | dangling symlink |
| 18:46.31 | jelly | then you may have found a bug in locate -E, congrats |
| 18:47.07 | de-facto | should i create /etc/modules then? |
| 18:47.16 | de-facto | or is that just a bug and was like that before already? |
| 18:47.26 | de-facto | cant see the relation to "data" pattern here |
| 18:47.30 | jelly | no need to create it. |
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| 18:48.02 | delt | hello everyone |
| 18:48.12 | delt | just a small comment about the package management (dpkg/apt) ... |
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| 18:48.19 | jelly | it was probably like that already. |
| 18:48.23 | delt | what would really be nice when installing/updating tons of packages at once, is when it needs user interaction (ie. keep your old config file, or replace with newer version? Y/N) after a certain delay it would skip that package, install the other ones, and then come back to it/those at the *end* of the install/update |
| 18:48.27 | de-facto | thanks a lot jelly that idea with locate was really smart :)) |
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| 18:49.30 | greycat | delt: it can't safely rearrange the package installation order at that point. It's already been decided according to Pre-Depends: and so on. |
| 18:49.31 | dvs | delt, the problem is that other packages may depend on the package that needs the configuration. |
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| 18:49.50 | de-facto | i think i have it recovered, systemctl and journalclt are happy, debsums -ac is happy, locate -E '*' is fixed, my webroot i could restore from another backup |
| 18:50.10 | de-facto | postgres also works just fine |
| 18:50.15 | delt | ohhhh *duh* scratch that then :) |
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| 18:51.24 | delt | if it just omits the user-interaction-requiring packages after X seconds/minutes inactivity, then other packages might not be possible to install (in a way that works) |
| 18:51.35 | delt | ie. those that depend on said user-inte... |
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| 18:52.34 | pasiz | apt -y install maybe |
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| 18:52.44 | pasiz | to answer all yes |
| 18:52.47 | delt | so, it would need to prune the packages that require user interaction, AND all dependent packages |
| 18:52.49 | omarek | Habbie: gdisk prints a SCARY message when I try to move backup GPT to the end of the disk: "This will overwrite existing partitions" |
| 18:52.59 | pasiz | also --yes works on apt |
| 18:53.04 | omarek | Should I do that? |
| 18:53.26 | nico_ | Po |
| 18:53.29 | delt | still, it would be nice to have an option to do that (14:52:46 < delt> so, it would need to prune the packages that require user interaction, AND all dependent packages) and then report which packages weren't installed at the end |
| 18:54.05 | Habbie | omarek, ouch |
| 18:54.09 | Habbie | omarek, i don't know, sorry |
| 18:54.20 | pasiz | omarek: is your partition table as it should before you write it |
| 18:55.46 | omarek | pasiz: Yes, and it's the clone. |
| 18:55.59 | omarek | Can I just ignore the warning about GPT not being at the end of the disk? |
| 18:56.17 | pasiz | on start? |
| 18:56.25 | pasiz | or in writing |
| 18:56.36 | delt | ok thanks for your time, hope my suggestion gets someone thinking ) |
| 18:56.37 | delt | :) |
| 18:56.55 | Andy9 | thunar don't see other computers on home network - what needs to be st up there? |
| 18:56.56 | pasiz | delt: --yes parameter as said? |
| 18:56.58 | omarek | pasiz: It nags be about the backup GPT not being at the end when I try to write. |
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| 18:57.40 | delt | pasiz: that could potentially clobber config files that i want to keep |
| 18:58.16 | delt | pasiz: i guess another approach would be to keep backups of those, and if using -y --yes just list those that have been clobbered |
| 18:58.32 | delt | with where their backups are |
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| 18:59.07 | pasiz | omarek: in gdisk second menu, if i remember correctly, there is (d) that you can use |
| 18:59.26 | delt | that still doesn't fix the case where user would choose other than the default |
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| 18:59.37 | delt | anyway... thanks for your time guys |
| 18:59.38 | delt | cheers |
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| 18:59.42 | pasiz | delt: for automation, you need to chose beforehand, for hand, you need input. Clear xy problem |
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| 19:00.38 | pasiz | yes, (d) rebuilds secondary GPT from main. |
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| 19:02.11 | omarek | Ok, gdisk lists no more problems aside from the gap fdisk created until 2048. Rebooting to see if the clone is fixed. |
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| 19:03.02 | Andy9 | shoot me, i just realized there is no sound at all lol! there is definitly huge difference, actually another discrepancy between whow debian live disc runs and when you install it with installation disc1. |
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| 19:05.57 | Andy9 | how do i enable sound - and why it didn't detect my sound card/chip during installation same as live disc did? |
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| 19:09.26 | uniqdom | Hello, I wonder if there is an app to make a phone call. There are apps in Android to have Debian and other GNU/Linux operating systems. I have installed UserLAnd and now I have Debian stable. I wonder if I can make a phone call from that Debian running inside Android. |
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| 19:12.11 | pasiz | uniqdom: you found the first |
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| 19:12.47 | Andy9 | apologies, false alarm - found pulse audio in multimedia instead of system, its just speaker icon wasnt added to taskbar |
| 19:14.13 | uniqdom | pasiz: Sorry, I can't understand you. What do you mean? |
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| 19:18.17 | Andy9 | i added acpi-support package and it's dependencies for "It is able to: ... Suspend, hibernate and resume the computer, with workarounds for hardware that needs it." But i still can't find screensaver settings/options/chooser anywhere. |
| 19:18.28 | cbthree | Has anyone here who owns a Samsung Chromebook 3 (CELES) managed to get its microsd slot working? If you insert a card *before* boot, that card shows up (automounted) and works kind of ok. If you unmount the card and reinsert it, its not automounted, you have to mount it using the command line. Moreover, if you insert the card *after* you boot it is neither recognized nor automounted and - what is even worse - cannot be mounte |
| 19:18.29 | cbthree | d using the command line |
| 19:18.37 | pasiz | uniqdom: you found the first app. After searching second and spend your precious time, you understand that there isn't. But if you install some HFP server you could make your android call from debian, by emulating hands free... That is not answer your question... |
| 19:20.32 | uniqdom | pasiz: I see, thanks for your time. |
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| 19:22.36 | pasiz | as return, i insist to know why in all options you need to make phonecall from debian inside android (that itself is linux)... |
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| 19:23.08 | Andy9 | i knoiw you guys are tired of what looks like stupid questions to you, but i can't find damn screensaver at all. And I did install it |
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| 19:27.30 | rocketmagnet | hi everyone |
| 19:27.38 | rocketmagnet | where is the package python-appindicator gone in buster ? |
| 19:28.02 | Habbie | ,v python-appindicator |
| 19:28.03 | judd | Package: python-appindicator on amd64 -- jessie: 0.4.92-3.1; stretch: 0.4.92-4 |
| 19:28.20 | Habbie | (i don't know) |
| 19:28.21 | greycat | the fact that it's not in sid is indicative... |
| 19:28.40 | uniqdom | Andy9: don't you have a screensasver app in preferences menu? |
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| 19:29.42 | Andy9 | preferences < where is it? i found only Prefred Applications in Settings |
| 19:29.57 | greycat | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818019 |
| 19:29.58 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/818019 in wnpp (open): «O: libappindicator -- allow applications to export a menu into the panel»; severity: normal; opened: 2016-03-12; last modified: 2016-03-12. |
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| 19:31.54 | greycat | the tracker took me to the source package "libappindicator" which does not have python-* listed under the binaries |
| 19:32.00 | uniqdom | Andy9: are you using Gnome? Cinnamon? lxde? Xfce? another one? |
| 19:32.29 | Andy9 | or preferences of what? display? not there, not in graphics, not ianywhjere else i have looked, the only mention of screensaver is in xfce power manager under security (to |
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| 19:32.48 | Andy9 | uniqdom: XFCE |
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| 19:34.26 | uniqdom | Ok, I'm using Cinnamon, so it should be different. Can you run "tasksel" as root, and see if "xfce" is selected? |
| 19:35.34 | Andy9 | yes it is; also Debian desktop env. and Mate |
| 19:35.55 | uniqdom | are you using a laptop? |
| 19:36.00 | Andy9 | no |
| 19:36.03 | uniqdom | ok |
| 19:36.12 | f8e3_ | greycat are your here? |
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| 19:36.32 | greycat | uniqdom: from previous discussion, Andy9 installed with both xfce and mate selected, and is using lightdm to run an xfce session currently. his lspci -nn is at http://paste.debian.net/1096722/ |
| 19:37.20 | greycat | Older intel chipset, integrated video without firmware. |
| 19:37.49 | Andy9 | i know, junk to most but it works fine |
| 19:38.05 | f8e3_ | to extend on the earlier: how do i build a api for http requests i guess to exchange unstructured data, should i write my own process or use a databaseserver with restful api and expose it (i never wrote apis, so security wise very unsafe :D) |
| 19:38.24 | BazookaTooth | ,v xfce4 |
| 19:38.25 | judd | Package: xfce4 on amd64 -- jessie: 4.10.1; stretch: 4.12.3; bullseye: 4.12.5; buster: 4.12.5; sid: 4.12.5 |
| 19:38.49 | BazookaTooth | https://docs.xfce.org/4.12/start |
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| 19:41.10 | uniqdom | f8e3_: If you know python, maybe you should try with flask: https://palletsprojects.com/p/flask/ |
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| 19:42.23 | greycat | f8e3_: where does this data come from? how does it get to wherever it is now? what does it look like? |
| 19:43.13 | uniqdom | Andy9: did you try with xfce4-settings-manager? |
| 19:43.23 | Andy9 | where is it? |
| 19:43.30 | Andy9 | or u mean in terminal? |
| 19:43.39 | uniqdom | terminal |
| 19:43.53 | uniqdom | ... if it is not in the menu. |
| 19:44.09 | uniqdom | Andy9: https://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/change-the-screensaver-on-xfce/ |
| 19:44.22 | Andy9 | it is somewhere in the menu too, i recognize it. but there is nothing about screensaver |
| 19:44.54 | f8e3_ | auniqdom interesting will look into it |
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| 19:45.15 | jhutchins_wk | Andy9: In xfce, screensaver is a separate applet. You should probably look carefully at the power management settings. |
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| 19:47.47 | filpAM | Is there a way to check how much space is occupying each package? |
| 19:48.27 | jhutchins_wk | filpAM: What's your goal? |
| 19:48.44 | filpAM | So I can know which unused packages I should remove first |
| 19:48.53 | Andy9 | jhutchins_wk power management settings is the only place where i found any mention of screensaver, but it is under last tab "security" as option for locking screen after x time when screensaver is activated; nowhere there is any option to actually set up screensaver |
| 19:49.04 | jhutchins_wk | filpAM: Are you low on disk space? |
| 19:49.22 | uniqdom | f8e3_: Sorry, I think that I was confused about Flask. Maybe it is not good for your purpuse. |
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| 19:49.45 | filpAM | No(yet), but I want my hard disk clean |
| 19:49.56 | filpAM | (No unnecessary packages) |
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| 19:50.19 | jhutchins_wk | filpAM: Disk space is cheap these days. It's better to understand what each package is for and why it was installed than to randomly rip things out. |
| 19:50.39 | jhutchins_wk | filpAM: That said, there are some graphical utilities that will show you what's using how much space. |
| 19:50.45 | Andy9 | and this link https://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/change-the-screensaver-on-xfce/ has everything about how to disable and eremove screensaver, but NOTHING about turning on :( |
| 19:51.00 | filpAM | I would rather go with command line utilities |
| 19:51.11 | jhutchins_wk | filpAM: du then. |
| 19:51.41 | uniqdom | Andy9: sorry, it was just to show you were the screensaver was in xfce4-settings-manager |
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| 19:51.47 | uniqdom | where* |
| 19:53.01 | uniqdom | Could it be that there was an interruption during the installation of your xfce packages? |
| 19:53.28 | filpAM | Yeah, that is why I want to know if there is such utility which reports packages disk usage and if they don't depend on anything and are safe to remove |
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| 19:53.38 | Andy9 | uniqdom i did set some cool fireworks screensaver when i tested debian before installation (from live disc) and it worked for sure; that's why i said earlier that what is on live disc (or what is auto-installed there) is not the same as actual installation from installdisc1 |
| 19:53.53 | BazookaTooth | Andy9: that's xscreensaver |
| 19:54.31 | Andy9 | BazookaTooth - i did install xscreensaver from synaptic mgr |
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| 19:54.48 | uniqdom | maybe you can launch it from terminal |
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| 19:54.52 | BazookaTooth | ^ |
| 19:54.53 | Andy9 | maybe the problem is that im using xfce now, while live disc used some other DE? |
| 19:55.12 | greycat | ... synaptic? |
| 19:55.23 | greycat | oh, right, you're using xfce, not gnome, so not wayland |
| 19:55.29 | Andy9 | is it "Debian desktop environment" that is used by default on live disc? |
| 19:55.57 | filpAM | jhutchins_wk: Do know you know such graphical utility which reports packages disk usage? (If there aren't command line alternatives..) |
| 19:55.58 | Andy9 | because for sure it wasnt xfce |
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| 19:56.09 | greycat | Andy9: that phrase doesn't mean much. If you are foolish enough to select "debian desktop" but NOT choose one underneath that, it just chooses one for you, and the one it chooses is usually GNOME. |
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| 19:56.22 | Andy9 | ah lol |
| 19:56.28 | greycat | Andy9: since you selected TWO, it wouldn't have to pick one |
| 19:56.34 | lope | what are the options for running >=4.21 kernel on Debian Buster? |
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| 19:56.43 | greycat | ,kernels |
| 19:56.44 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.0.0-trunk-686-pae (5.0.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.2.0-2-686 (5.2.9-1); buster: 4.19.0-5-686-pae (4.19.37-5); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (4.19.37-4~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-9-686 (4.9.168-1+deb9u5); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.9.168-1+deb9u5~deb8u1) |
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| 19:57.29 | Andy9 | greycat then which DE is selected by live disc as default? (i hope it doesnt do randoms lol) |
| 19:57.33 | lope | greycat, I don't see any >4.21 kernels there named backport etc |
| 19:57.35 | greycat | Hmm, not officially backported yet, but your best bet is to do something involving the sid kernel package. Specifically *what* you do with it, I have NFI. |
| 19:57.58 | lope | greycat, I see. |
| 19:58.04 | lope | greycat, thanks. |
| 19:58.08 | greycat | Andy9: each live image-thing has one chosen and embedded in the name of said live thing. |
| 19:58.19 | lope | greycat, what is the experimental stuff, is it available for buster? |
| 19:58.26 | greycat | Do not use that experimental thing. |
| 19:58.35 | greycat | The sid package is NEWER and SAFER. |
| 19:58.47 | lope | greycat, okay |
| 19:58.53 | filpAM | sid is next? |
| 19:58.56 | greycat | !sid |
| 19:58.56 | dpkg | i guess sid is the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys. The great thing about running sid is that when it breaks, you get to keep ALL the pieces!! |
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| 19:59.11 | greycat | bullseye is "next" |
| 19:59.36 | lope | greycat, are there any plans for buster to move to >=4.21 ? |
| 19:59.38 | filpAM | what if we run out of toy story names |
| 19:59.44 | greycat | lope: HELL no. |
| 19:59.45 | uniqdom | filpAM: dpkg-query -Wf '${Installed-Size}\t${Package}\n' | sort -n |
| 19:59.52 | greycat | lope: this is not how stable WORKS. |
| 20:00.02 | lope | greycat, so buster is stuck on 4.19 forever? |
| 20:00.02 | filpAM | uniqdom: thanks |
| 20:00.07 | greycat | Yes. It is stable. |
| 20:00.09 | greycat | !stable |
| 20:00.09 | dpkg | [stable] The status of a Debian release when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is Buster (10.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me about <security backports>). https://wiki.debian.org/DebianStable |
| 20:00.19 | Andy9 | greycat i cant tell now which one live disc it was, all i remember it was amd64 (i already overburnt it on dvd-rw with installation disc 1). I do have .img file on another machine, buth Thunar doesn't see my home network... :( |
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| 20:00.26 | BazookaTooth | Andy9: just run xscreensaver from terminal. i'm on xfce 4.14 which actually has its own screensaver and can't recall where the screensaver shortcut is on 4.12 |
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| 20:01.01 | greycat | BazookaTooth: unless I missed something, Andy9's goal is not to RUN the screen saver, but to PREVENT it from ever BEING run, because it's causing his display to go pear-shaped. |
| 20:01.24 | Andy9 | BazookaTooth: need root or sudo or just "xscreensaver" ? |
| 20:01.41 | BazookaTooth | just run as user |
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| 20:02.14 | Andy9 | greycat: no no :) i need screensaver or blank screen asap exactly BECAUSE my plsama screen would bend and melt 10 min later ;) |
| 20:02.16 | indomitable | debian has a screen saver? |
| 20:02.24 | indomitable | plasma IS pretty hot, so it tends to melt |
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| 20:03.12 | Andy9 | indomitable it has somewhere... and plasma gets hot only when it displays all white pixels at 5000000000000 lumens lol |
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| 20:03.36 | LtL | Andy9: can you find xfce4-settings-manager ? maybe this has been suggested, but it's in there. |
| 20:03.52 | indomitable | why can't you all run headless debian like I do |
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| 20:04.16 | indomitable | would make linux devs' lives a lot easier |
| 20:04.49 | Andy9 | BazookaTooth: bash: xscreensaver: command not found |
| 20:05.00 | BazookaTooth | Andy9: -_- |
| 20:05.15 | humpled | don't you have to add -demo |
| 20:05.30 | BazookaTooth | wtf. this should not be that much trouble.. use tab completion |
| 20:06.10 | Andy9 | Perhaps you meant to run the `xscreensaver-demo' program instead? |
| 20:06.19 | humpled | he probably doesn't have it, it would be in the settings menu |
| 20:06.22 | Andy9 | oh ic, i added gap there |
| 20:06.25 | LtL | Andy9: do that, yes |
| 20:06.37 | humpled | normal screen blanking is in the power settings |
| 20:07.30 | Andy9 | humpled yes but when i click "lock screen" i couldnt get back, no key or click worked |
| 20:08.02 | humpled | well do you need to lock the screen? |
| 20:08.24 | Andy9 | Bazooka "daemon isn't running" i click OK, i see screensaver preferences now |
| 20:08.27 | humpled | it doesn't come back from lock or it doesn't come back from being blank/slept/powered down? |
| 20:08.33 | BazookaTooth | that's normal |
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| 20:09.08 | Andy9 | humpled it didn't come back from lock, screen was blank until it powered itself off, |
| 20:09.13 | humpled | screensaver can be started in the session and startup part of settings |
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| 20:10.24 | humpled | it's a desktop right? maybe the screen doesn't get powered back on, did you try to log in blind? |
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| 20:11.50 | Andy9 | Now that is very misleading setting-naming there: "Blank After:" - i know from previous tries it means "ACtivate selected screensaver after:" - someone should really fix that |
| 20:12.02 | Andy9 | humpled yes desktop, oldish |
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| 20:12.40 | humpled | one does not merely fix xscreensaver |
| 20:12.56 | Andy9 | :) |
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| 20:14.03 | Andy9 | ok so now i have it set to "blank after" (activate after) 1 min, lets see if it gonna fire up :) |
| 20:14.04 | humpled | jwz.org |
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| 20:15.15 | Andy9 | yay success :) |
| 20:15.47 | humpled | great :) |
| 20:16.11 | humpled | the original and best |
| 20:16.38 | Andy9 | guess what: screensaver appears in settings now too |
| 20:16.44 | BazookaTooth | yup |
| 20:16.57 | BazookaTooth | it should go to autostart too |
| 20:17.14 | Andy9 | where do i check if it will? |
| 20:17.20 | BazookaTooth | check under sessions/startup and should be listed now |
| 20:17.56 | Andy9 | actually there 2 now? |
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| 20:18.23 | Andy9 | umm sorry, one is Screenlocker and 2nd is Screensaver |
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| 20:19.05 | Andy9 | i just unchecked screenLOCKER just in case it would do really lock me out again |
| 20:19.51 | Marsu | marsu |
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| 20:21.35 | Andy9 | nThank you guys. Screensaver is set and working :) now to next question: automount the data hdd which is ntfs? i mean mount it automatically on boot for all users |
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| 20:23.04 | greycat | Andy9: read-only? |
| 20:23.40 | Andy9 | greycat: no, read and write since i'm going to use debian mostly (eventually only) |
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| 20:23.52 | greycat | *cough* |
| 20:23.56 | Andy9 | ? |
| 20:24.05 | Andy9 | what i said? :) |
| 20:24.14 | greycat | yeah, I ... don't see that happening. Full read-write access by ALL local unix UIDs to an NTFS volume? no. |
| 20:25.09 | Andy9 | why not? the drive in windows has no permission restrictions or anything (it is a dump for files) |
| 20:25.25 | Andy9 | or is it ntfs problem? |
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| 20:27.27 | Andy9 | well, i can't format it with ext4 because it has almost 4TB of stuff and i have no other large drive to move it all for now, so it has to stay as ntfs until i buy another hdd |
| 20:27.45 | BazookaTooth | thunar should see it with gvfs |
| 20:29.01 | Andy9 | thunar see it, i already tested few files, videos and music, it has no problems. BUT i have to mount it (click on it on desktop) every time i login |
| 20:29.21 | *** join/#debian pipeep (~pipeep@2605:6400:10:a15d:ca7:ea75:b12d:dead) |
| 20:29.36 | EoflaOE | You can edit /etc/fstab for this. Does it help? https://superuser.com/questions/617777/how-do-i-auto-mount-a-usb-drive-that-all-users-can-write-to |
| 20:30.24 | *** part/#debian omnio (~quassel@86.121.165.221) |
| 20:30.28 | nico_ | good night. |
| 20:30.32 | Andy9 | wtf |
| 20:30.46 | Andy9 | i tried to type ur name lol |
| 20:30.49 | Bushmills | Andy9: that's your only copy of that data on that drive? |
| 20:31.15 | Andy9 | Bushmills yes |
| 20:32.19 | Andy9 | i know what u thinking - to wipe it and format in ext4 but can't do it before i can offload those files (i dont care about tv series or such, but there are a lot of our own videos and photos too) |
| 20:32.26 | Bushmills | common experience dictates that in this case the data is worthless, and the drive can be used to create a different file system on it. |
| 20:32.34 | BazookaTooth | Andy9: you should read about ntfs on linux systems before screwing around with that drive too much |
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| 20:33.42 | Andy9 | like it may get corrupted or something? that wouldn't be good |
| 20:34.49 | Bushmills | as the saying goes "who doesn't have backups has no data worth to keep" |
| 20:35.20 | *** part/#debian alkisg (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) |
| 20:36.27 | BazookaTooth | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NTFS-3G#Linux_compatible_permissions |
| 20:38.02 | Andy9 | Bushmills thats true and i do have raid1 on w2k machine that is just home "storage" box and does nothing else but unfortunately on this machine everyone dumped photos n vids because it was conveniently there just by the tv ;) |
| 20:38.56 | Bushmills | then "everyone" has backups of the stuff they dumped on the disk :D |
| 20:39.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1562] by debhelper |
| 20:39.25 | Andy9 | you bet they deleted it 5sec after copying to that box ha ha |
| 20:39.30 | Bushmills | means, it's not your problem, hehe |
| 20:40.24 | Andy9 | i rather dont go there, but god forbid some stupid photo would disappear ... lol |
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| 20:41.19 | Andy9 | so for now i should mount ntfs as read only for safety? |
| 20:41.57 | Bushmills | as far as you can use "ntfs" and "safety" in one sentence |
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| 20:43.33 | BazookaTooth | i use an ntfs partition to pass stuff between various systems but unconcerned about the reliablity of it so... ^ |
| 20:43.34 | greycat | I don't even know how ntfs stores ownerships. If you can write to it, then you can make new files, and how is the new file's owner identified? |
| 20:44.21 | Andy9 | by permissions; if u dont have access granted by admin (root) all u can do is just see it listed, can't access |
| 20:44.42 | Andy9 | each owner has unique UID like linux |
| 20:45.48 | greycat | With VFAT at least I understand things. There *isn't* an owner in VFAT. That field simply does not exist. So when you mount a VFAT under Linux, you ask mount to make all the files APPEAR to be owned by fred, or root, or whatever, but it's just an illusion. If you make a new file, the new file has no owner, because it's VFAT, so it doesn't matter who should have owned it. |
| 20:45.53 | BazookaTooth | forced uuid and guid options in fstab works fine |
| 20:45.57 | greycat | But with NTFS? No clue. |
| 20:46.43 | BazookaTooth | but i wouldn't automount it and let people use it without understanding the risk |
| 20:47.29 | Andy9 | greycat i don't know linux, so i can't tell (i had some horrible experience with ext2 when i tried linux for first time) but it looks to me ntfs is very similiar to ext3 /4 has journaling etc too |
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| 20:48.09 | BazookaTooth | never had an issue with ntfs-3g aside from dirty file system warnings |
| 20:48.11 | greycat | I am not talking about journaling, or anything like that. I am talking about who owns a file. |
| 20:48.33 | greycat | !ntfsrw |
| 20:48.34 | dpkg | NTFS-3G is a userspace driver providing NTFS read and write support. "aptitude install ntfs-3g". Usage examples: http://www.tuxera.com/community/ntfs-3g-download/#usage . Also ask me about <user accessible ntfs>. |
| 20:48.39 | greycat | !user accessible ntfs |
| 20:48.39 | dpkg | To get an NTFS or VFAT file system accessible by users and groups on the local machine, man mount; man 5 fstab; and read about the umask, fmask, dmask, uid, and gid options. You'll end up sticking something like conv=auto,uid=<user>,gid=<group>,dmask=0002,fmask=0003 into your fstab's mount option field. |
| 20:48.45 | BCMM | greycat: ntfs *can* sort of support posix permissions, but they're not enabled by default |
| 20:49.02 | Andy9 | vfat / or msof fat/fat32 had no owners but that ended with NT4 or maybe NT3 i dont remember; I have always used ntfs (except flash drives) and never had problems with it, honestly |
| 20:49.19 | BCMM | ordinarily, when it's mounted with linux, it's just like vfat - one set of permissions for the whole volume |
| 20:49.35 | Andy9 | posix was in all NT-line until Win2000 |
| 20:49.37 | greycat | that's... what I've seen... |
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| 20:50.13 | Andy9 | BCMM wait a second - mounting ntfs in linux removes all permissions? |
| 20:50.27 | greycat | Finally he's starting to understand! |
| 20:50.27 | BCMM | Andy9: no, but permissions aren't seen or applied by linux |
| 20:50.38 | Bushmills | not MPOSIX? The Microsoft interpretation if it? |
| 20:50.55 | BazookaTooth | this is why you have to force the uuid/guuid at mount |
| 20:51.01 | Andy9 | oh ok, you scared the shit out of me (i already saw Win7 rendered unusable lol) |
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| 20:51.15 | greycat | you're SUPPOSED to be scared |
| 20:51.43 | greycat | is this NTFS volume a bootable C: drive, or is it "just" a data drive with movies and photos and crap on it? |
| 20:51.50 | Andy9 | Bushmills you know, if one would look deeper i bet it would turn out to be (c)microsoft plastered everywhere lol |
| 20:52.39 | Andy9 | greycat i wanted to automount second hdd, not the one with windoze on it (but i already ditched that idea ;) ) |
| 20:53.18 | greycat | ok, if it's "just" data, then it might be acceptable that all ownerships/groups/permissions or WHATEVER the hell microsoft uses in place of those things, is demolished |
| 20:55.01 | Andy9 | i have 3 drives on this box: 1st is small SSD with 3 primary ntfs partitions (1-win boot loader 2-win7 3-windoze users files and now 4-5-6-7-8-9 logical partitions with debian partitions) |
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| 20:56.01 | Bushmills | wow, each directory an own partition :) |
| 20:56.16 | darsie | Is there an aztec code scanner in debian? zbar-tools didn't work. |
| 20:56.20 | Andy9 | 2nd is old small HDD used as windoze's swap and some junk (logs etc), and 3rd is the data large 4TB with single partition shared on home network too (hence the "dump") |
| 20:57.23 | darsie | I'd like to scan a train ticket aztec code, so I don't want to upload it to a website. |
| 20:57.25 | BazookaTooth | don't mount the 2nd one with rw |
| 20:57.44 | darsie | qr-droid didn't scan it, either. |
| 20:58.53 | Andy9 | Bushmills what u mean? linux is partitions-hungry always lol |
| 20:59.08 | greycat | No. |
| 20:59.32 | snooky | I start my system and everything is great. the console is perfect. after the login I execute a "startx". my x window has no fullscreen but only about a quarter. So it's smaller and the rest is black. anyone have an idea what that can be? |
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| 20:59.51 | BazookaTooth | Andy9: must be reading old material |
| 21:00.14 | Andy9 | well yeaj i could make 1 partition like android but as i said i'm planning to keep debian on it for as long as this box lives, so of coz i separate /home /var /tmp etc |
| 21:01.09 | BazookaTooth | you don't even have to use swap partitions these days. just a root / with a swap file o_O |
| 21:01.30 | Andy9 | anyways its my habit to always keep "home" and data away from OS; i wasted enuf time on reinstalling windozes in the past until i learned how to be prepared and ready to restore just OS in 5min lol |
| 21:01.33 | Bushmills | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:02.59 | Bushmills | convention is to put only smallish stuff into /tmp, and larger temp files into /var/tmp |
| 21:03.12 | Andy9 | so /tmp and /swap are unneeded now? |
| 21:03.33 | indomitable | Bushmills, you're a cheap, drinkable whisky, what do you know |
| 21:03.36 | greycat | separate /tmp has never been important |
| 21:03.52 | indomitable | greycat, well, it is if you're running an arm system... |
| 21:03.54 | Andy9 | and now you're telling me that?! :P |
| 21:03.57 | indomitable | (with an sd card) |
| 21:04.04 | indomitable | Andy9, swap is needed |
| 21:04.06 | indomitable | do not fuck with swap |
| 21:04.10 | indomitable | swap is the life blood of linux |
| 21:04.34 | greycat | the most likely cases where you'd want a separate partition on a home/desktop system are /home (because user data is portable across systems/installations), and /boot (because under some paranoid setups you may do encryption on everything else, but /boot has to be outside that) |
| 21:05.09 | Andy9 | indomitable i thought so too; windoze supposedly dont need its "swap" either when u got gazillions of RAM but i have seen it halt on boot when there was no swap |
| 21:05.22 | indomitable | Andy9, just... don't mess with swap |
| 21:05.28 | indomitable | it's like pushing a bear |
| 21:05.29 | Andy9 | i won't ;) |
| 21:05.31 | indomitable | it might be fine |
| 21:05.38 | indomitable | if it's not it's gonna be bad |
| 21:05.44 | Bushmills | systems with many concurrent users benefit from seperate homes (multiple homes for groups of users) on different disks |
| 21:05.56 | indomitable | no one even uses linux for "concurrent users" anymore |
| 21:05.56 | indomitable | :P |
| 21:06.04 | indomitable | they prefer wintendo + hackable AD |
| 21:06.08 | indomitable | because it has excel support |
| 21:06.25 | greycat | the days of "many concurrent users on one host" are pretty much historical footnotes now |
| 21:06.36 | indomitable | indeed |
| 21:06.39 | greycat | everyone's got their own host, or many hosts (phones, tablets, ...) |
| 21:06.42 | indomitable | unless it's windows remote desktop |
| 21:06.44 | indomitable | fml |
| 21:06.48 | Bushmills | on single to few users system, the gains of seperating /home are virtually negligable |
| 21:06.54 | greycat | well, windows has always been 20 years behind |
| 21:07.02 | Andy9 | swhat are "concurrent" users? u mean simultaneously logged-on? |
| 21:07.07 | greycat | Andy9: yes |
| 21:07.10 | indomitable | I wish they were 20 years behind, it wouldn't be too late to fix it |
| 21:07.11 | indomitable | :P |
| 21:07.28 | Bushmills | yes. and active. reading and writing to their resp. homes |
| 21:08.06 | greycat | I suspect Andy9 is not old enough to remember this. |
| 21:08.25 | greycat | MOST of this channel has probably never seen a setup like this. |
| 21:08.29 | Andy9 | don't worry, msoft will kill itself sooner than you think; no one who used windows before 10 wants that shit anymore, you will see flood of new debian users and other distros once msoft will kill win7 support for good |
| 21:08.34 | indomitable | Bushmills, I'm going to pour you in a glass and put ice cubes in you |
| 21:08.36 | indomitable | >:( |
| 21:08.59 | indomitable | Andy9, no |
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| 21:09.02 | indomitable | but nice drea |
| 21:09.03 | indomitable | m |
| 21:09.03 | indomitable | lol |
| 21:10.05 | Andy9 | indomitable look at me, 20yrs of using windows (and i do know it well) down the drain :) some of my friends switched to linux long before me |
| 21:10.47 | humpled | just been to a large government office, they seem to be using xp or vista by the blocky window headers |
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| 21:11.06 | indomitable | humpled, a doctor left me alone in an examination room with an unlocked windows xp pc |
| 21:11.19 | indomitable | now I have blackmail material for three hundred and fifty four people |
| 21:11.22 | Andy9 | lol |
| 21:11.29 | indomitable | it has internet |
| 21:11.39 | indomitable | uunbelievable |
| 21:11.41 | indomitable | :| |
| 21:11.47 | ratrace | smile, you're on security camera |
| 21:12.00 | Andy9 | windows machine should never been connected to web |
| 21:12.51 | Bushmills | some might say "windows machines should never be connected to *power*" :) |
| 21:13.01 | Andy9 | lol you're mean |
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| 21:15.10 | indomitable | Bushmills, you're cheap whisky, what do you know |
| 21:17.14 | Andy9 | there is great utility for windows called SnapShot. I use it for ages, probably since around 2000. It copies partition exactly bit for bit and save it as image file. When I had WinXP box i often let scriptkiddies hack it, watch them setting up nest being gay-happy lol then i just restored partition with Snapshot to the state it was an hr ago and watch them meticulusly redoing what was undone lol |
| 21:17.34 | greycat | dd |
| 21:17.38 | Bushmills | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:17.38 | dpkg | it has been said that dd is an abbreviation for Debian Developer, or a utility for the low-level copying and conversion of raw data: man dd, dd if=/foo/vmlinuz of=/dev/fd0 to produce a bootable floppy, dd if=/dev/hdc of=image.iso to make an image of a CD/DVD. See also <win32 dd>, <ddrescue>, <gddrescue>. <pv> |
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| 21:17.57 | greycat | Floppy! |
| 21:20.14 | greycat | !ddrescue |
| 21:20.14 | dpkg | dd_rescue (packaged for Debian as ddrescue) is a tool to help you to save data from crashed partition. Unlike dd, dd_rescue will keep going on despite errors. It can also continue interrupted copying process and copy backwards. http://www.garloff.de/kurt/linux/ddrescue/ See also <gddrescue>. |
| 21:20.37 | greycat | for whenever the simple dd won't suffice |
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| 21:20.41 | Andy9 | !Windows |
| 21:20.41 | dpkg | "PCs are like air conditioners, if you open Windows(R) they don't work." Support for Microsoft Windows operating systems is available in ##windows on irc.freenode.net. |
| 21:20.48 | Andy9 | lol |
| 21:21.08 | Andy9 | I knew something like that *must* be set up here ;) |
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| 21:23.08 | Andy9 | ok guys, now to remove some packages from this box do i use synaptic manager? |
| 21:23.26 | greycat | if it actually works for you, sure, why not |
| 21:23.40 | greycat | you can also use aptitude, apt, or dpkg |
| 21:24.10 | Andy9 | well its not fully working yet, but i do know what will NOT be used (i.e. office) |
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| 21:25.16 | Andy9 | i like my machines slim lean debloated etc ;) (i know you laugh seeing it coming from windoze guy ain'tya) |
| 21:26.18 | Andy9 | sudo dpkg -[program name] or else? |
| 21:26.21 | Bushmills | that statement somehow doesn't quite match your use of synaptic |
| 21:27.09 | greycat | Andy9: dpkg --remove pkgname, or dpkg --purge pkgname. Read "man dpkg" to see the difference. |
| 21:27.10 | Bushmills | apt may be the tool of choice of many |
| 21:27.15 | Bushmills | just guessing |
| 21:27.20 | Bushmills | !apt |
| 21:27.20 | dpkg | Advanced Packaging Tool (APT) is a package management system used by Debian and its derivatives. APT is a C++ library of functions that are used by several command line programs for dealing with packages, notably apt-get, apt-cache, and aptitude and, from Debian 8 "Jessie" onwards, apt. See also <aptitude> <apt-get>, <apt-cache>, <apt myths>. |
| 21:27.32 | Andy9 | ok |
| 21:28.13 | Bushmills | though aptitude has also an interactive mode, and can offer solutions how to deal with conflicts |
| 21:28.40 | humpled | i browsed aptitude ncurses quite a bit when i was not used to debian |
| 21:29.45 | Bushmills | a consideration may be: don't depend on a package management tool which requires X |
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| 21:30.18 | greycat | don't depend on any system administration tool that requires a GUI |
| 21:30.24 | humpled | apt is best for quick queries like search, policy and show |
| 21:30.30 | Bushmills | while you can use console tools ("text mode") in X too, the reverse isn't true |
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| 21:40.31 | starsnet | hi guys |
| 21:40.52 | dvs | only the guys??? ;-P |
| 21:40.53 | starsnet | i need help from you) |
| 21:40.59 | Grefoley | Hi i plan to make a personnal mailserver, do you recommend me to do it with docker or directly on my server. I am not sure about the architecture i want to build |
| 21:41.23 | starsnet | where i can find MIPS repo's on Jessy (debian 8) ? |
| 21:41.37 | starsnet | debian 8 |
| 21:41.51 | dvs | !jessie sources.list |
| 21:41.51 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 8 "Jessie" has two lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ jessie main" "deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main". Be sure to run «aptitude update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <jessie/updates> <jessie-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
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| 21:42.59 | starsnet | i doit it. but installer can't fint apps (example mc) |
| 21:43.09 | starsnet | this repo's old ? |
| 21:43.13 | starsnet | or deprecated |
| 21:43.30 | greycat | You probably screwed up. Check your sources.list file again. Make sure it actually has the lines it should have. |
| 21:43.50 | starsnet | may be archive.debian.. |
| 21:43.55 | greycat | No, not for jessie. |
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| 21:45.01 | starsnet | root@ci20:~# cat /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 21:45.02 | starsnet | bian/ jessie-updates main |
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| 21:45.28 | dvs | !paste |
| 21:45.28 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 21:45.37 | starsnet | sorry) |
| 21:45.44 | greycat | well whatever you've done, that is not the output you should see. |
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| 21:46.31 | starsnet | https://pastebin.com/QwZmVxrd |
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| 21:46.37 | greycat | Even assuming that you somehow lost half the line while pasting here, if your sources.list is just ONE line instead of two, it means you didn't read the factoid. |
| 21:47.12 | dvs | starsnet, there is no more jessie-updates |
| 21:47.38 | greycat | the random security lines ("let's just throw every combination of security and updates together and see what works") is not amusing |
| 21:47.47 | starsnet | dvs: i know. but where i can find old binaries ? |
| 21:47.51 | greycat | !jessie sources.list |
| 21:47.51 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 8 "Jessie" has two lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ jessie main" "deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main". Be sure to run «aptitude update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <jessie/updates> <jessie-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
| 21:48.05 | greycat | THERE. You find them THERE. That is where they ARE. |
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| 21:48.25 | dvs | starsnet, ^^ those are the only valid jessie repos now |
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| 21:49.58 | Andy9 | i saw some kind of themes in xfce somewhere, can't find it now (want to change some of its looks), its not under display nor preferred nor windows manager tweaks |
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| 21:51.04 | starsnet | dpkg: see you my mesages on pastebin ? i have your lines in my sources.list |
| 21:51.04 | dpkg | starsnet: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request |
| 21:51.25 | dvs | starsnet, those are the ONLY valid repos |
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| 21:51.26 | greycat | starsnet: remove all the OTHER lines. I counted 5 deb lines and some additional deb-src lines. |
| 21:51.28 | starsnet | sorry for my english) |
| 21:52.03 | Sora | hi, nvidia-driver is extremely broken in debian 10, help please? https://pastebin.com/HVVzGmk5 |
| 21:52.09 | Andy9 | scratch my last question, found it |
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| 21:53.46 | starsnet | dvs: i want MIPS repo's ) |
| 21:54.13 | greycat | if your architecture is supported in jessie, and is on the jessie mirrors, then it should work. |
| 21:54.27 | starsnet | if.. |
| 21:54.36 | greycat | Well, you would know better than we. |
| 21:54.41 | Andy9 | !jessie |
| 21:54.41 | dpkg | Jessie is the codename for the current <oldoldstable> release, Debian 8, released on 2015-04-25. Security support ended 2018-05-17, repos removed from mirrors around 2019-03-24, except for <jessie-lts>. Jessie is the cowgirl in Toy Story 2. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianJessie and ask me about <install jessie> <jessie release notes> <wheezy->jessie>. Last point release was <8.11>. |
| 21:55.13 | greycat | !jessie-lts |
| 21:55.14 | dpkg | Security support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures will receive additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until around 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total. See https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information |
| 21:55.43 | Andy9 | whats the codename of 10.0 ? |
| 21:55.46 | greycat | buster |
| 21:55.51 | Andy9 | ah right thx |
| 21:56.02 | Andy9 | !buster-lts |
| 21:56.02 | dpkg | buster-lts is <reply>It is expected that extended security support for Debian 10 "Buster" will be offered by the <LTS> project after the Debian Security Team ceases supporting stretch in mid 2022. See https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information. |
| 21:56.39 | Andy9 | okie dokie, i wouldnt want distro that ends next year lol |
| 21:56.56 | greycat | buster was just released about 6 weeks ago |
| 21:56.58 | starsnet | earlier packages for version 8 were available. |
| 21:57.02 | Bushmills | one can always upgrade to next stable |
| 21:57.30 | Andy9 | oh rly - its spankin fresh then :) i jumped on it at very right moment ha ha |
| 21:57.55 | starsnet | does anyone speak russian?) |
| 21:57.59 | greycat | !ru |
| 21:57.59 | dpkg | ÐÑо английÑкоговоÑÑÑий канал, пожалÑйÑÑа, говоÑиÑе по-английÑки или поÑеÑиÑе #debian-russian (irc.oftc.net) (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian) |
| 21:58.01 | Bushmills | do you? |
| 21:58.36 | starsnet | dpkg: thx за #debian-russia ) |
| 21:58.36 | dpkg | starsnet: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
| 21:58.46 | Andy9 | Bushmills once i like something and it works i see no reason to change/upg just because there is newer version :) |
| 21:59.04 | Andy9 | unless it has something i need ofcoz |
| 21:59.25 | starsnet | dpkg: i have mips ci20. and latest debian image - 8.4) |
| 21:59.25 | Bushmills | such as, continued support |
| 21:59.26 | dpkg | starsnet: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about |
| 21:59.42 | *** part/#debian darsie (~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) |
| 21:59.44 | Andy9 | starsnet what u need, past here i do speak russian a bit lol |
| 22:00.06 | Andy9 | but i cant write, dont have ru fonts |
| 22:00.10 | Bushmills | there must be a reason why people tend to upgrade, rather than continuing using their currently installed version |
| 22:00.50 | starsnet | Andy9: where i can find binary soft for debain 8 for MIPS le ) |
| 22:00.51 | Andy9 | Bushmills yes, thats why i just check to make sure buster won't go bust next year ;) |
| 22:01.15 | Bushmills | it's stable now. even if it was just for 3 months more. |
| 22:01.41 | Andy9 | starsnet that i cant help you with, i offered to translate ru-eng because you ask if anyone speak russian |
| 22:01.42 | Bushmills | upgrade is usually unproblematic |
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| 22:02.30 | starsnet | Andy9: ÑпаÑибо за помоÑÑ) пÑидеÑÑÑ Ð¸ÑкаÑÑ ÑамомÑ) |
| 22:02.35 | greycat | starsnet: the jessie-lts factoid says that only some arches are supported in LTS. So *maybe* the MIPS arch packages are somewhere else, but if that's the case, I don't know where that would be. You could extrapolate from wheezy or something. |
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| 22:03.02 | Andy9 | pozhalsta starsnet ;) |
| 22:03.50 | starsnet | greycat: thx. may be i can find deb-packages from FTP ? |
| 22:04.12 | starsnet | Andy9: :) |
| 22:04.38 | Bushmills | !archive |
| 22:04.38 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, archive is a collection of files. 'tar', 'ar', 'cpio' are all archiving tools. This is *not* the same as compression, which is a separate operation. Debian Archives is the repository for old Debian releases, see http://www.debian.org/distrib/archive . For the package archive, ask me about <snapshot>. Old Debian <ISO> files are archived at http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/ |
| 22:04.41 | Andy9 | starsnet (sry - no ru fonts here to write 'proper' cyrillic lol) |
| 22:05.01 | Bushmills | !snapshot |
| 22:05.01 | dpkg | http://snapshot.debian.org/ is an archive of almost all Debian packages uploaded since 2005, including those removed from the official archives because they were very buggy, unusable, broken, vulnerable or in some way non-free. This service replaces snapshot.debian.net. http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100412 |
| 22:05.04 | starsnet | http://archive.debian.org/debian-archive/debian/dists/jessie/main/binary-mipsel/ |
| 22:05.30 | starsnet | no( |
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| 22:09.29 | Andy9 | last problem to solve for today: Thunar really don't see other machines on network - why, where to look for solution? |
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| 22:10.41 | Andy9 | or do i / should i / use something else to access files on other machines on lan? |
| 22:15.43 | somiaj | 'see other machines' is a bit vague, should they be seeing a windows share network (Samba/cifs), are they looking for nfs servers, or do you just have access to the machines via ssh. |
| 22:15.43 | Andy9 | in Thunar when i go to 'Browse network' it shows smb:/// < with 3 slashes? is that normal? |
| 22:16.09 | Andy9 | somiaj yes i mean windows machines on 'windows network' |
| 22:16.13 | somiaj | anyways, it sounds like this is a samba (smb:///) issue, and maybe you have to configure your samba server to know the default windows domain to look through |
| 22:16.34 | Andy9 | there is no domain |
| 22:16.36 | somiaj | I perosnally don't use this, so unsure of any details (I connect to the machines i want directly via samba and not just 'browse' what is out there) |
| 22:16.41 | somiaj | then there is a workgroup |
| 22:16.51 | Andy9 | yes workgroup |
| 22:17.51 | somiaj | are any of these machines windows 7 (or older) or are they all windows 10? |
| 22:18.29 | Andy9 | no win10 here, only w2k and win7 and android |
| 22:18.39 | somiaj | https://askubuntu.com/questions/1053927/thunar-not-browsing-local-network |
| 22:18.55 | humpled | heheh was just reading that |
| 22:19.03 | somiaj | unsure if that is an issue, but the solution there has an option you need to add to samba to set the protocol for older networks |
| 22:19.18 | somiaj | again this is not something I use, so I'm only 'guessing' |
| 22:20.09 | humpled | i've always had intermittent trouble with thunar and samba, but i know almost nothing about windows, what even is a workgroup? |
| 22:20.16 | BazookaTooth | Andy9: thunar uses gvfs for all that stuff. you have to configure samba |
| 22:20.29 | Andy9 | when i search for samb application it doesnt appear; what was that list / lst command to find app in terminal you guys gave me earlier? |
| 22:20.31 | somiaj | humpled: a workgroup is what windows uses to group home networks |
| 22:20.50 | humpled | smbclient has been more reliable, but i guess it doesn't suit everyone |
| 22:20.58 | somiaj | this isn't as complicated of a setup as a windows domain or what they call active-directories now (afiak) |
| 22:21.13 | somiaj | yea, I just use smbclient, cifs directly myself. |
| 22:21.26 | Andy9 | somiaj my home workgroup is old-school, same as on win-nt/2000 none of that garbage introduced with vista |
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| 22:22.09 | somiaj | maybe that link can help, might just be you need to tell samba to use the older protocols to browse correctly |
| 22:22.47 | Andy9 | application finder cant find samba |
| 22:22.58 | Andy9 | so i guess thats the reason |
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| 22:26.21 | Andy9 | when i check in synaptics mgr i have only samba-libs installed, all other samb pkgs are not installed; so should i install samba? |
| 22:26.44 | Andy9 | there's quite many of them |
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| 22:27.49 | Mathisen | samba-client should be enough |
| 22:27.58 | somiaj | You probably don't need all of them, in this case you probably only need the clients, which might be included in the samba-libs and cifs files |
| 22:28.20 | somiaj | might also need samba-common or something like that |
| 22:29.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1542] by debhelper |
| 22:29.34 | Bushmills | executing "smbtree" may give some clues (that's from package smbclient) |
| 22:29.56 | somiaj | yea smbclient may help debug things, but probably isn't required for thunar |
| 22:30.14 | Andy9 | somiaj yeah i thought i need client since im not setting it up (not yet) to be server , but the problem with every package i have noticed today is that they are not really described in a meaningful way |
| 22:31.04 | Andy9 | im sure to those who know what is what it's good enough, but to a noob like me most of the descriptions are meaningless :( |
| 22:31.51 | humpled | yay smbtree works for me, didn't know about that before |
| 22:32.13 | Andy9 | it didnt here :) |
| 22:32.30 | Bushmills | try smbtree -b |
| 22:32.33 | Andy9 | bash: smbtree: command not found |
| 22:32.49 | Andy9 | same |
| 22:32.50 | humpled | didn't even need my password |
| 22:32.52 | BazookaTooth | Andy9: you have gvfs-smb? |
| 22:32.53 | Bushmills | "that's from package smbclient)" |
| 22:33.22 | Andy9 | bash: gvfs-smb: command not found |
| 22:33.23 | humpled | ,v gvfs-smb |
| 22:33.24 | judd | No package named 'gvfs-smb' was found in amd64. |
| 22:33.53 | Andy9 | im installing everything that was selected after i chose "samba" in synaptic mgr, its still installing |
| 22:33.53 | BazookaTooth | arch package name... no idea what it is on debain then |
| 22:34.23 | Bushmills | gvfs and gvfs-backends |
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| 22:36.16 | Andy9 | BazookaTooth thats exactly what is another problematic thing to me and most likely any other noob to linux: the names are different on different distros, which adds to confusion specially when u read about something and u think its not here but it actually is - just under diff name because help was written for another distro |
| 22:36.33 | BazookaTooth | get used to it |
| 22:36.43 | Andy9 | yeah |
| 22:37.57 | humpled | did you try the protocol fixing thing? |
| 22:37.58 | Bushmills | there are tools to help findng your way through the different names. dlocate is one of them |
| 22:38.04 | Andy9 | now before i try to do anything according to any instructions on web - i do first check for what distro or from which distro's forum it is lol |
| 22:38.29 | Bushmills | knwing the name of a file, you can ask it what package it is in. that package doesn't need to be installed locally |
| 22:38.30 | humpled | whatever you do on the web, you need to learn which sources to trust |
| 22:39.10 | Andy9 | samba is still installing, thats long - is it normal |
| 22:39.21 | humpled | what |
| 22:39.30 | somiaj | sounds like you are installing the full server, depending on download speed it can take a little bit |
| 22:39.32 | Andy9 | humpled yes, thats true |
| 22:39.41 | humpled | samba is the server |
| 22:39.46 | somiaj | (the samba package will pull in the server and client) |
| 22:40.26 | Andy9 | somiaj it is dnlded but it is at 'preparing packages' for very long time |
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| 22:40.59 | Andy9 | well i guess i will bug you guys later how to remove the server part of samba ;) |
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| 22:41.55 | Bushmills | samba *is* the server |
| 22:42.34 | Andy9 | also i have disabled IPv6 at very begining - could this cause a problem for thunar not seeing anyting on lan? |
| 22:42.44 | Bushmills | (plus some tools, docs, libs, configs) |
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| 22:43.31 | Bushmills | shouldn't be a problem if rest of your net is ipv4 capable |
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| 22:44.05 | Andy9 | all my boxes have only IPv4, I always had problem with IPv6 |
| 22:45.33 | Andy9 | some sites use IPv6 to restrict you in i.e. limit of files viewed for free ;) no such problems with IPv4 |
| 22:46.33 | Bushmills | unusual |
| 22:46.43 | Bushmills | I don't know of such sites |
| 22:47.00 | Andy9 | quite few actually :) |
| 22:47.25 | Bushmills | then i never happened to come across any of those |
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| 22:49.30 | Andy9 | even YT is sometimes problematic to some if u use IPv6, it all depends |
| 22:50.22 | Andy9 | perhaps its windows-only related? it is possible |
| 22:50.49 | Andy9 | after all i wouldnt be surprised if msoft managed to twist IPv6 somehow too |
| 22:52.25 | Bushmills | I can't confirm that - while about all my machine talk to youtube through ipv6 |
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| 22:52.56 | Andy9 | but no i just googled IPv6 and i see android connectivity problems solved with disabling IPv6 from 2015, and very recent solution to stuttering youtube solved with disabling IPv6 on router in 2018 |
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| 22:54.44 | Andy9 | samba really takes that long to install? |
| 22:55.02 | Andy9 | its still at preparing packages |
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| 22:55.21 | humpled | there's certainly a lot of it |
| 22:55.26 | Andy9 | ok |
| 22:55.26 | Bushmills | not on a reasonably recent machine (say, not older than 20 years) |
| 22:56.46 | Andy9 | my machine was a speed demon 10yrs ago :P |
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| 22:57.34 | Bushmills | i just checked, when not asked otherwise will my gateway use ipv6 with youtube: http://snap.scarydevilmonastery.net/se1y/ |
| 22:58.12 | Andy9 | ping it with ipv4 |
| 22:58.24 | Andy9 | maybe u get 6ms :) |
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| 22:59.03 | Bushmills | same. +-0.02 secs |
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| 23:00.18 | Andy9 | when i played WoT ages ago someone suggested disabling ipv6 to me (coz having fast cable i always had very high ping) and it did work, my ping dropped from ~100ms to 20-25 |
| 23:00.44 | Andy9 | thats how i started to look at it and have it disabled on my boxes |
| 23:02.05 | Andy9 | btw i love how debian keeps memory management :) |
| 23:02.39 | Bushmills | mem management is more a matter of Linux kernel, not specifically Debian |
| 23:02.48 | Andy9 | ic |
| 23:03.21 | Bushmills | kernel config has some influence, which is distribution specific |
| 23:04.27 | Andy9 | about kernel - is there any kernel with baked-in hardware acceleration for my type of graphic "card" ? |
| 23:05.10 | Andy9 | coz no separate linux drivers available anywhere for Intel HD Graphics, i already checked that |
| 23:05.27 | *** join/#debian FuZi0N (~FuZi0N@unaffiliated/fuzi0n) |
| 23:06.02 | FuZi0N | How can I check if debian OS is installed on my NVMe or HDD? |
| 23:06.11 | FuZi0N | https://pastebin.com/LUfuEtfa |
| 23:06.23 | dvs | boot it? |
| 23:06.41 | FuZi0N | It's booted |
| 23:08.44 | dvs | lsblk? |
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| 23:10.21 | FuZi0N | thanks |
| 23:10.34 | Andy9 | dvs when i did lsblk i found i have partition of 1K size, how it could be? |
| 23:10.52 | dvs | dunno |
| 23:11.01 | Andy9 | ââsda4 8:4 0 1K 0 part |
| 23:11.36 | Andy9 | thats why i have 9 partitions (i thought i should have had 8) |
| 23:11.49 | Bushmills | extended partion, probably. the primary one holding your extended partitions |
| 23:12.08 | Andy9 | ah yes you're right, forgot all are logical |
| 23:12.23 | Bushmills | there's only space for 4 partitions in old style partition table |
| 23:12.28 | Andy9 | getting tired and dumb if i cant remember the obvious lol |
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| 23:12.59 | Andy9 | also windoze habits again (all primary partition) |
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| 23:13.47 | iStrive | hello fellas! |
| 23:13.54 | Andy9 | hello fello :P |
| 23:13.56 | J_C | i was about to make an angry jab at windows, but i held myself back |
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| 23:14.19 | Andy9 | J_C why? sudden burst of love for old bill? |
| 23:14.30 | iStrive | My fstab is returning -101 error, it's debian and I need the share mounted for backup... What should I do to fix this? |
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| 23:15.34 | J_C | Andy9: sudden burst of hatred for bill for putting "FarmVille 2: Country Escape" shortcuts on my computer without me telling him to. :( |
| 23:15.53 | iStrive | this is the line from fstab //10.0.5.5/DrvImg /mnt/wdnas/DriveImg cifs credentials=/opt/.naslogin,vers=2.1,uid=1000,gid=1000,rw,nounix,iocharset=utf8,file_mode=0755,dir_mode=0755 0 0 |
| 23:16.05 | Andy9 | J_C don't say! noooo, he would never do such heinous thing? |
| 23:16.37 | iStrive | then dmesg | grep -E "error|fail|warn" |
| 23:16.58 | iStrive | retuns this : CIFS VFS: cifs_mount failed w/return code = -101 |
| 23:17.02 | iStrive | any ideas? |
| 23:17.07 | Andy9 | J_C win10 it must be, as yoda would have said |
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| 23:20.57 | Andy9 | ok it takes too long; whats the right way to stop synaptic while it is 'preparing packages'? |
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| 23:21.36 | dvs | how long is too long? |
| 23:21.44 | Andy9 | lemme scroll up |
| 23:22.15 | Andy9 | 1hr+ already |
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| 23:22.22 | iStrive | anybody familiar with fsab in buster? |
| 23:22.42 | iStrive | fstab |
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| 23:24.56 | Andy9 | ooooh FFS !!! that is a typical windows behaviour arrrrgh!!!! |
| 23:25.15 | *** part/#debian windham (~shurwood@59.9.80.248) |
| 23:25.35 | Andy9 | synaptic stuck on fk...g yes/no , which was hidden until i expanded it god damn |
| 23:26.06 | Andy9 | "Modify smb.conf to use WINS settings from DHCP? [yes/no]" ffs |
| 23:26.33 | Andy9 | and what do i answer here? my guess would be yes, but i rather ask you guys |
| 23:26.52 | dvs | well, if you use DHCP for your network. |
| 23:27.39 | Andy9 | ofcoz i do, though all my non-portable machines have static IPs anyway |
| 23:28.31 | Andy9 | but rly that was so windows-alike behaviour, i didn't expect such thing from linux :) |
| 23:28.49 | Andy9 | apologies for cussing |
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| 23:29.13 | Andy9 | samba installed in like 15sec after that |
| 23:30.45 | Andy9 | ok now how to configure samba to see network machines |
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| 23:31.11 | Andy9 | oh wait lol, no need - Thunar already displayed them all ha |
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| 23:33.20 | Andy9 | well, thanks for all the help guys! Without you I probably would have gave up |
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| 23:33.32 | Andy9 | have a good night (day) |
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| 23:40.07 | BazookaTooth | :) |
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| 23:51.55 | toka | Hello |
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| 23:52.41 | toka | can anyone provide assistance with nvidia driver config. on buster? |
| 23:55.00 | annadane | toka, yes, just ask |
| 23:55.30 | toka | awesome...ok |
| 23:56.24 | toka | so i tried this: sudo apt install nvidia-detect |
| 23:56.35 | toka | then: nivida-detect |
| 23:57.11 | toka | the recommended driver was: nvidia-driver |
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| 23:58.29 | toka | which i installed and then did a system reboot. however, i can't launch nvidia-settings for some reason and prime-select was not installed. |
| 23:59.04 | toka | Am i missing something or is there a better method for config.? |
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