| 00:00.04 | Mathisen | m0rd3cai, do you have any 3.rd party repos added ? |
| 00:00.32 | Bushmills | those deps are supposed to be resolved and installed along with wine |
| 00:00.47 | m0rd3cai | hey #debian, running debian stretch 9.0.8 here. Cant install wine. lots and lots of unmet dependencies. anyone have this issue?winehq-stable : Depends: wine-stable (= 4.0.1~stretch) |
| 00:00.58 | m0rd3cai | Mathisen: yes ive add winehq.com repo |
| 00:01.14 | Mathisen | is that the only one ? or do you have others also |
| 00:01.19 | m0rd3cai | Bushmills: thats what I thought... |
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| 00:01.43 | Bushmills | why don't you use wine as provided by stretch? |
| 00:02.17 | m0rd3cai | Dependency issues. thats why i added winehq repo. |
| 00:03.13 | m0rd3cai | wine32:i386 : Depends: libc6:i386 (>= 2.17) but it is not going |
| 00:03.36 | m0rd3cai | thats what wine32 from stretch gives me. also a libwine:i386 error too |
| 00:04.27 | coruja | why not pasting the complete apt output? |
| 00:04.31 | coruja | !paste |
| 00:04.32 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 00:04.45 | Bushmills | My impression is that there's anoither problem, which only manifests through your attempt to instal wine now |
| 00:06.07 | Bushmills | use of external repos may have amplified the problem, whatever it was |
| 00:06.45 | coruja | i hope the apt output gives hints where to dig deeper afterwards |
| 00:07.05 | m0rd3cai | one second. ill do that |
| 00:07.58 | Bushmills | output of "apt policy" may be helpful too |
| 00:08.06 | m0rd3cai | http://paste.debian.net/1097160/ |
| 00:08.48 | Bushmills | ,v libc6 |
| 00:08.49 | judd | Package: libc6 on amd64 -- jessie: 2.19-18+deb8u10; jessie-security: 2.19-18+deb8u10; stretch-security: 2.24-11+deb9u1; stretch: 2.24-11+deb9u4; bullseye: 2.28-10; buster: 2.28-10; sid: 2.28-10; experimental: 2.29-0experimental0 |
| 00:09.06 | m0rd3cai | heres apt policy. http://paste.debian.net/1097161/ |
| 00:10.09 | Bushmills | stretch libc should be 2.24. why yours seems to be < 2.17 may need to be figured out |
| 00:10.36 | Bushmills | what does dpkg -l libc6 give? |
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| 00:11.25 | Bushmills | mixing ubuntu packages with debian packages is bound to cause problems |
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| 00:13.14 | coruja | m0rd3cai, is your system up-to-date? and is multiarch enabled correctly? |
| 00:13.36 | m0rd3cai | yes. just reinstalled about a week or two ago. i do daily updates |
| 00:13.52 | Bushmills | ,v libwine |
| 00:13.53 | judd | Package: libwine on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6.2-20; stretch: 1.8.7-2; stretch-backports: 4.0-2~bpo9+1; buster: 4.0-2; bullseye: 4.0.1-1; sid: 4.0.1-1 |
| 00:14.30 | coruja | and multiarch? |
| 00:14.42 | Bushmills | also output of dpkg -l libwine |
| 00:15.24 | m0rd3cai | Bushmills: ii libc6:amd64 2.28-10 amd64 GNU C Library: Shared libraries |
| 00:15.27 | coruja | and 'dpkg --print-architecture' |
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| 00:15.52 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 00:15.52 | Bushmills | 2.28 aren'T stretch |
| 00:15.58 | m0rd3cai | im installing as we speak |
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| 00:16.23 | Bushmills | you seem to have a mix of versions which don't belong to stretch |
| 00:16.45 | fructose | Bushmills: Aren't Ubuntu packages all Debian packages? I'd be interested to know why it's bound to cause problems. |
| 00:17.35 | m0rd3cai | i use debian mirror repos and just nextcloud client is received from ppa repo. The reading i did on it stated ppa would work fine on debian |
| 00:17.51 | m0rd3cai | uname -a is Linux unknown 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1+deb9u5 (2019-08-11) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 00:17.59 | Bushmills | fructose: while it's the same package format, the packages differ - and the dependencies too. ubuntu may require different versions than debian |
| 00:18.19 | Bushmills | result can be such a version mix as in this case |
| 00:18.21 | m0rd3cai | should i try to disable nextcloud repo and re-update? |
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| 00:19.06 | m0rd3cai | still getting same dep issues |
| 00:19.29 | fructose | Bushmills: Okay, so just another form of dependency hell, or something else too? |
| 00:19.41 | Bushmills | just commenting out the repos doesn't change the packages installed on your system |
| 00:20.13 | m0rd3cai | trued |
| 00:20.16 | m0rd3cai | true* |
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| 00:20.57 | m0rd3cai | well wine64 will now install but win32 wont. is 32 needed that much for wine64? |
| 00:21.36 | catfuneral | i have a line `userdel foo` in the postrm step of a package. when i remove the package, the userdel appears to silently not work. if i run the postrm script manually, the userdel works fine. what am i doing wrong ? |
| 00:21.38 | Bushmills | fructose: debian has no control over what ubuntu puts intoi their packages, and what other packages they depend on. when installed packages are replaced, such as libs, installed programs may not work well - or not at all - with the different version of libs |
| 00:22.58 | Bushmills | and in no time one has a rather unmaintainable system, in which things just don't play nice with each other any longer. |
| 00:23.50 | Bushmills | one then keeps replacing packages just to get something working, and the system breaks somewhere else then |
| 00:25.28 | m0rd3cai | well poo.... |
| 00:26.46 | fructose | Bushmills: Sure, that sounds like dependency hell to me though. I'd think plenty of Ubuntu packages would work fine though, which is why I asked. |
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| 00:28.14 | Bushmills | as soon as an ubuntu package installs another, because it's a dependency, you'll start messing up your system |
| 00:28.51 | Bushmills | even if it "seems" to "work fine" |
| 00:29.29 | Bushmills | !frankendebian |
| 00:29.29 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 00:32.03 | coruja | are dpkg and judd the only infobots allowed here? |
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| 00:32.19 | fructose | Bushmills: Yeah, though if someone release their little app for Ubuntu and I was running Debian, I'd expect to be able to install it without a chain reaction of Ubuntu packages being installed. I'd think the Debian version would be used. |
| 00:32.58 | fructose | Bushmills: But if that's wrong, that'd be good to know. |
| 00:33.50 | Bushmills | "without a chain reaction" - what if that little app insist on installing another version of a library than the one it finds already installed? |
| 00:34.43 | fructose | Bushmills: I don't know how likely that is. My impression before this discussion would be that it's rare and implies the developer did something crazy. |
| 00:35.38 | Bushmills | it's not rare, and the developer doesn't need to do anything crazy. |
| 00:36.01 | fructose | Bushmills: Alright, good to know, thanks |
| 00:36.09 | Bushmills | the maintainer of that package simply needs to state "this and that lib version is required" |
| 00:36.30 | Bushmills | and if that's a mismatch, shit starts to hit the fan |
| 00:37.43 | Bushmills | (because the rest of the programs depending on that particuliar lib aren't prepared for that)# |
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| 01:00.44 | hays | postgresql-common seems to be stuck on the configuration step |
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| 01:25.06 | mk2b4 | Hello, I'm trying to install debian on my system and I'm getting corrupted graphics during the install(menu is fine, install process for graphical or text is not), the system I'm using has a 2200g with integrated vega graphics(raven ridge), any suggestions on what to do? |
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| 01:31.06 | Bushmills | use text installer, see that graphics can be fixed later, for example with non-free firmware (from non-free repo which isn't enabled during install) |
| 01:35.21 | mk2b4 | neither the text installer or the graphical installer work, both have garbled graphics. I also tried using the non-free firmware install image and that didn't work either. The installer menu displays correctly for some reason though, that's the confusing part |
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| 01:37.23 | Epakai | i have a couple drives on a marvell 9215 controller using zfs that show up as removable to my drive utility (udiskie). how do i mark these as fixed drives or whatever? |
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| 01:38.55 | coruja | mk2b4, maybe you want to try booting a debian live iso to investigate what could go wrong (it features a different installer also) |
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| 01:40.40 | mk2b4 | I think I fixed by using the special boot paramaters by accident, disabling framebuffer seems to have fixed it... |
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| 01:52.46 | agris | hhello |
| 01:52.56 | agris | I am getting conflicting information |
| 01:53.00 | agris | I run # rmadison cgit --architecture amd64 |
| 01:53.00 | agris | cgit | 0.10.2.git2.0.1-3+deb8u1 | oldoldstable | amd64 |
| 01:53.00 | agris | cgit | 1.1+git2.10.2-3+deb9u1 | oldstable | amd64 |
| 01:53.00 | agris | cgit | 1.2.1+git2.18.0-1 | stable | amd64 |
| 01:53.00 | agris | cgit | 1.2.1+git2.18.0-1 | testing | amd64 |
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| 01:56.24 | mk2b4 | Okay, I finished installing and it booted to terminal without issues. Here's the steps to fix the garbled graphics: Install Menu > Help > F8(boot parameters for installer) > Disable Framebuffer |
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| 02:01.52 | agris | Hello, I'm trying to build a backport, but my tools are giving me conflicting information I run # rmadison cgit --architecture amd64 and get the following response http://dpaste.com/2EZ0JY2 However, when I try to download the sources for stable It does NOT download the version rmadison says because the output of rmadison says stable = 1.2.1 i run the following command # apt source -t stable cgit however this does not download 1.2.1 this |
| 02:01.52 | agris | downloads 1.1+git2.10.2-3+deb9u1 based on cgit sources 1.1 |
| 02:01.52 | agris | <PROTECTED> |
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| 02:08.29 | coruja | !devuan |
| 02:08.29 | dpkg | Devuan (https://devuan.org/) is a Debian <derivative>, meant to avoid dependencies on <systemd>. Not supported in #debian, please see #devuan on chat.freenode.net for support. |
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| 02:16.09 | mrvdv | Starting up a free hosting server. Will be hosting dedicated servers/shells if anyone wants one to play with or be serious on, pm me or come to #inter-link |
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| 02:23.26 | kingsley | Does Debian have a package that can translate a PDF file from Japanese to English? If so, what is it called? |
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| 03:39.01 | _Cute_Kitty_ | hi. |
| 03:39.39 | _Cute_Kitty_ | when i close my laptop, the screen blacks obviously, but when i open it i can't turn it on or anything. the power button is still white showing that the laptop is on, but the screen is black and pressing mouse/trackpad,keys doesn't do anything |
| 03:39.44 | _Cute_Kitty_ | what should I do/ |
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| 03:53.56 | _Cute_Kitty_ | anyone |
| 03:56.19 | somiaj | you should be able to hold the power button down to force a hardware stop, then turn it back on. After that check your logs for errors about why it won't suspend correctly |
| 03:56.35 | somiaj | you may also want to check your firmware (many call it bios) settings under acpi and set to non windows os |
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| 04:01.53 | _Cute_Kitty_ | ok, so if i even touch the power button the log screen comes up because it's shutting down |
| 04:02.21 | _Cute_Kitty_ | which i don't want it to do. i want the power button to come off when i shut the laptop and the screen to go black, but all to come back up when i open it. there isn't a setting in debian that i can use to turn this on/off? |
| 04:02.43 | rwp | _Cute_Kitty_, What type of laptop do you have? I would search the web for others using that laptop. Sounds like a firmware problem. |
| 04:03.05 | _Cute_Kitty_ | hp probook 640 |
| 04:04.45 | rwp | Found this: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/HP/ProBook%20640%20G1 and http://www.linlap.com/hp_probook_640_g1 neither of which indicate similar problems. |
| 04:04.45 | annadane | _Cute_Kitty_, what does dmesg | grep -i firmware say, as root? |
| 04:06.41 | _Cute_Kitty_ | here's the output. https://paste.debian.net/1097170/ |
| 04:06.58 | _Cute_Kitty_ | I was also looking at the debian page for the laptop |
| 04:08.04 | _Cute_Kitty_ | oh, also, on the topic of the hp probook 640, I am having issues with the laptop periodically going "staticy" and totally a different color. i can't tell if it's a graphic card failing or if it's a setting in debian? |
| 04:08.09 | annadane | what's your processor? maybe you should install microcode... |
| 04:08.29 | _Cute_Kitty_ | i5 4300m |
| 04:08.59 | _Cute_Kitty_ | https://paste.debian.net/1097171/ |
| 04:09.05 | annadane | i guess maybe install intel-microcode and reboot, that's my preliminary suggestio |
| 04:09.06 | annadane | n |
| 04:09.16 | _Cute_Kitty_ | what is intel microde |
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| 04:10.01 | rwp | ,v intel-microcode |
| 04:10.03 | judd | Package: intel-microcode on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 3.20180425.1~deb8u1; stretch/non-free: 3.20180807a.2~deb9u1; stretch-backports/non-free: 3.20190312.1~bpo9+1; jessie-security/non-free: 3.20190618.1~deb8u1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 3.20190618.1~deb9u1; stretch-security/non-free: 3.20190618.1~deb9u1; bullseye/non-free: 3.20190618.1; buster/non-free: 3.20190618.1; sid/non- |
| 04:10.04 | judd | free: 3.20190618.1 |
| 04:10.37 | _Cute_Kitty_ | ok, anyway |
| 04:11.01 | annadane | microcode is something the manufacturer publishes to fix hardware bugs, essentially... it's a security flaw not to have it installed and your hardware may not perform up to specification |
| 04:11.02 | _Cute_Kitty_ | that's not helpful. here's the output of that command apt install https://paste.debian.net/1097172/ |
| 04:11.04 | _Cute_Kitty_ | i'm getting errors |
| 04:11.08 | rwp | I was just going to ask which graphics you have but that paste shows the Intel graphics. Which I think is a good graphics for linux kernel. |
| 04:11.19 | annadane | well, if you don't want my help then never mind. |
| 04:11.27 | annadane | unless you're responding to rwp |
| 04:11.28 | _Cute_Kitty_ | annadane: i wasn't referring to you : |
| 04:11.31 | _Cute_Kitty_ | sorry |
| 04:11.33 | annadane | but, yes, intel-microcode is a package name |
| 04:11.45 | _Cute_Kitty_ | rwp: so you're saying the graphics card is more likely failing |
| 04:11.47 | _Cute_Kitty_ | than some bug in debian |
| 04:11.53 | _Cute_Kitty_ | since my intel graphics should work fine? |
| 04:12.16 | annadane | those aren't errors |
| 04:12.21 | annadane | they're advisories |
| 04:12.27 | _Cute_Kitty_ | oh ok. so i'm good with intel microde then |
| 04:12.49 | _Cute_Kitty_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:12.50 | agris | Hello, So I was wondering about the PHP support |
| 04:13.00 | *** part/#debian Bjornn (~Bjornn@2604:6000:1503:598:32e1:71ff:fe22:b4e4) |
| 04:13.13 | rwp | I am sorry that the 'bot info about the intel-microcode package was not helpful to you. It was just indicating that it was a package and what versions are available. |
| 04:13.17 | annadane | i'm trying to figure that out |
| 04:13.33 | annadane | xserver-xorg-video-intel perhaps |
| 04:13.40 | agris | I'm running ASCII (Debian 9 compatable) and Debian 9 is still supported |
| 04:13.59 | agris | however Debian 9 comes with PHP 7.0, which is end-of-life from the PHP mainline |
| 04:14.09 | rwp | I think firmware-misc-nonfree should be installed to silence those warnings. |
| 04:14.16 | _Cute_Kitty_ | ok |
| 04:14.19 | agris | Does this mean that I will still get security fixes for Debian9 PHP 7.0? |
| 04:14.27 | _Cute_Kitty_ | well it probably doesn't matter for me |
| 04:14.35 | agris | for as long as Debian 9 is supported |
| 04:14.40 | annadane | if you don't care about FOSS overly much, i'd probably install firmware-misc-nonfree on a laptop |
| 04:14.58 | annadane | you should reboot after installing that (you should reboot after installing intel-microcode regardless) |
| 04:15.04 | _Cute_Kitty_ | what is more concering is this... https://imgur.com/a/4gXVfN |
| 04:15.10 | diogenes_ | Hello guys, is it possible to change the metadata of a picture? for instance, somebody downloaded a picture into my pc yesterday and normally when you look at the properties it would say: Modified: Yesterday, Accessed: Yesterday, now he modifies the metadata, and it would show: Modified and Accessed months ago? |
| 04:15.19 | annadane | link doesn't exist |
| 04:15.26 | _Cute_Kitty_ | https://imgur.com/a/4gXVfN |
| 04:15.31 | _Cute_Kitty_ | hmm sec |
| 04:15.49 | _Cute_Kitty_ | https://imgur.com/a/4gXVfNB |
| 04:15.55 | rwp | agris, I believe the security team will support PHP 7.0 through the stable release lifecycle, yes. |
| 04:16.00 | _Cute_Kitty_ | that's what i'm talking about the display |
| 04:16.22 | _Cute_Kitty_ | i think maybe the best bet is to put something ELSE on, like windows, and just leave it on the windows screen, and see if the problem duplicates |
| 04:16.29 | annadane | rwp, do you want to handle this? i don't mean to step on your toes |
| 04:16.30 | _Cute_Kitty_ | that way I can isolate debian out as a problem |
| 04:16.59 | rwp | agris, Note that there is the Stable release lifecycle and at the end of it then support falls to the LTS team for a restricted set of packages. |
| 04:17.09 | rwp | annadane, You were doing great! Sorry if I was stepping on your toes. |
| 04:17.36 | _Cute_Kitty_ | thanks for all the help so far guys, rwp: annadane: |
| 04:17.37 | annadane | i think what i'd do is just install firmware-misc-nonfree and intel-microcode and reboot and see if that fixes your hibernation issues |
| 04:17.47 | rwp | I thought we were doing well working together with suggestions. But if I am getting in your way I will tone it down. |
| 04:17.52 | annadane | or try windows and see if it's a debian problem too, that's up to you |
| 04:17.55 | annadane | you're not |
| 04:18.11 | somiaj | most like it is teh mobo firmware, and either make sure you ahve the most current firmware, and/or have played with its acpi settings (often possible) |
| 04:18.15 | _Cute_Kitty_ | yeah. it's got to be the graphics card in the laptop i'm thinking. but the thing is, if I reboot usuallly it goes away |
| 04:18.42 | _Cute_Kitty_ | so it's not a constant issue, it just sporadically switches to weirdom, and doesn't go away until shut off /rebooted |
| 04:18.45 | annadane | the entry in dmesg does indicate not up to date firmware |
| 04:18.50 | rwp | diogenes_, I think you are referring to the exif data. Yes. There are several tools for modifying the exif data of jpeg images. |
| 04:18.54 | agris | rwp, ok so Debian 9 still has 1 more year of non-LTS support? |
| 04:19.44 | _Cute_Kitty_ | so, annadane: what firmware was indicated not up to date? where can I see this, and what is the fix |
| 04:19.53 | rwp | agris, Yes. Here is a reference https://wiki.debian.org/LTS |
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| 04:20.08 | annadane | [ 0.033846] [Firmware Bug]: TSC_DEADLINE disabled due to Errata; please update microcode to version: 0x22 (or later) |
| 04:20.18 | annadane | the intel-microcode package will correct that |
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| 04:20.31 | rwp | I don't know what the plans are for PHP for the LTS phase of the lifecycle. |
| 04:20.58 | _Cute_Kitty_ | oh so I already ran sudo apt install intel-microcode |
| 04:21.00 | agris | rwp thank you |
| 04:21.08 | _Cute_Kitty_ | is that what you were referring to? |
| 04:21.09 | diogenes_ | rwp, ok and i suppose you van't figure out that it has been modified, it leaves no trace. |
| 04:21.23 | annadane | somiaj, the thing i couldn't figure out was the "possible missing firmware" messages at the end here: https://paste.debian.net/1097172/ and i'm not sure whether firmware-misc-nonfree or xserver-xorg-video-intel should be preferred (this is a laptop) |
| 04:21.26 | rwp | _Cute_Kitty_, Does suspend and resume work? If it were me when this happens I would try suspending and then resuming as a way of kickstarting it back to usable. |
| 04:21.29 | annadane | not sure if you might know more |
| 04:22.03 | _Cute_Kitty_ | rwp: i'll try |
| 04:22.19 | annadane | it's very likely xserver-xorg-video-intel is already installed |
| 04:22.53 | annadane | _Cute_Kitty_, just for my own curiosity, what does dpkg -l xserver-xorg-video-intel say? if you wouldn't mind |
| 04:23.11 | annadane | if it's "ii" then i'd just install firmware-misc-nonfree and remember to reboot |
| 04:24.21 | annadane | all the other firmware messages in dmesg show they're already present so that's not the issue |
| 04:25.02 | annadane | just wasn't sure how to single out one or the other package |
| 04:25.31 | rwp | agris, Also see: https://wiki.debian.org/PHP |
| 04:25.35 | annadane | it most likely should be firmware-misc-nonfree that's required |
| 04:25.56 | annadane | i think xserver-xorg-video-intel is just the generic intel graphics card component for x and that wouldn't be the issue |
| 04:26.37 | annadane | sorry for rambling and being excessively talkative, just trying to figure this out because i'm not sure how to tell the difference |
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| 04:30.40 | annadane | " The use of this driver is discouraged if your hw is new enough (ca. |
| 04:30.41 | annadane | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:31.03 | annadane | and anyway it's says "firmware" so i doubt it's that |
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| 04:31.37 | rwp | I would definitely install firmware-misc-nonfree and intel-microcode and then reboot and see if that fixes things. |
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| 04:32.50 | annadane | you kind of lose the ability to be a free software enthusiast if you're on a laptop. :P |
| 04:36.39 | rwp | I am one of the outliers that disagrees that firmware blobs are non-free. They are no worse than the hardware they are driving. Who gets schematics with hardware these days? |
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| 04:37.22 | rwp | If non-open hardware is allowed then why not firmware blobs too? The two are the same. But that is a debate for -offtopic probably. |
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| 04:38.02 | annadane | interestingly, i don't have a xserver-xorg-video-nouveau |
| 04:38.47 | rwp | There is a xserver-xorg-video-nouveau package. My nvidia system has it installed. |
| 04:39.02 | annadane | yeah, i'm on nvidia. i don't have it installed |
| 04:39.21 | annadane | i have a xserver-xorg-video-nvidia |
| 04:40.58 | ilikeyou | hi ppl. Hey, anyone notice the clock item for xfce panel is buggy? On two separate installations it will not let me change from 24 to 12hr. If I try, the icon disappears and I have to add it again. |
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| 04:42.48 | annadane | probably depends on the order in which i installed things |
| 04:42.57 | annadane | minimal system install, nvidia-first, xorg second |
| 04:43.09 | warsoul | hello |
| 04:43.13 | annadane | apt probably looked at it and said "you have nvidia already installed" |
| 04:43.25 | warsoul | how do i install the drivers on my video card on debian |
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| 04:45.40 | rwp | annadane, Do you install or avoid Recommends? It might be that too. I usually avoid. (shrug) |
| 04:45.52 | annadane | install |
| 04:45.53 | rwp | warsoul, What video card do you have? |
| 04:46.26 | nvz | warsoul: lspci -nn | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 04:47.14 | warsoul | https://termbin.com/3kf8 |
| 04:49.57 | rwp | warsoul, You have an nvidia graphics card. I use and recommend the nouveau driver. install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau |
| 04:50.37 | annadane | unless you need it for any kind of high performance work, because nouveau is limited |
| 04:51.27 | warsoul | ok |
| 04:52.29 | warsoul | install: missing destination file operand after 'xserver-xorg-video-nouveau' |
| 04:52.29 | warsoul | Try 'install --help' for more information. |
| 04:52.48 | annadane | what did you actually try typing? |
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| 04:53.13 | warsoul | :~$ install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau |
| 04:53.23 | annadane | apt install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau |
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| 04:54.59 | warsoul | https://termbin.com/bib2 |
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| 04:55.55 | vastemptiness | is crunchbang still around? |
| 04:56.29 | annadane | Philip Newborough announced on 6 February 2015 that he had stopped developing CrunchBang and that users would benefit from using vanilla Debian.[4] Some Linux distributions have arisen in its place in an effort to continue its environment. Among the most significant are BunsenLabs and CrunchBang++.[5] |
| 04:56.57 | annadane | warsoul, cool. now consider updating your system to fix those 210 old packages :P |
| 04:57.08 | warsoul | lol |
| 04:57.13 | vastemptiness | too bad, it was so lite |
| 04:57.17 | warsoul | how i do that? |
| 04:57.22 | annadane | apt upgrade |
| 04:57.22 | apt | Upgrading is easy! Go that way, really fast. If something gets in your way, turn. |
| 04:57.47 | annadane | i'd certainly learn basic package management if you're going to use debian |
| 04:57.56 | vastemptiness | now, iirc, its possible to change sources.list to another distro based on debian, to 'upgrade' to that distro, right? |
| 04:58.16 | annadane | not really, no. don't mix distros like that |
| 04:59.21 | ZaZaGX | i thought Crunchbang is from Ubuntu base |
| 04:59.34 | rwp | vastemptiness, https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian |
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| 04:59.56 | vastemptiness | while you're on the topic of apt, there's no search, right? i've always installed aptitude to do a aptitude search package |
| 05:00.14 | nvz | apt-cache search, apt search, aptitude search |
| 05:00.22 | rwp | The new "apt" does search. But I have always used "apt-cache search foo". |
| 05:00.55 | nvz | ,i packagesearch |
| 05:00.56 | judd | Package packagesearch (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: GUI for searching packages and viewing package information. Version: 2.7.10+b1; Size: 326.9k; Installed: 1443k; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/packagesearch |
| 05:01.14 | nvz | ,i debtags |
| 05:01.15 | judd | Package debtags (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Debian Package Tags support tools. Version: 2.1.5; Size: 554.4k; Installed: 673k; Homepage: http://wiki.debian.org/Debtags; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/debtags |
| 05:04.12 | vastemptiness | oh neat, will save me a few steps now |
| 05:04.28 | rwp | Oh, and for search there is also the web form online too. https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages |
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| 05:05.10 | annadane | and if you want to piss off greycat, use synaptic |
| 05:06.02 | warsoul | i download a debian image with cinammon if i want to change the desktop environment i can? |
| 05:06.14 | annadane | if you have internet access, yes |
| 05:06.39 | rwp | I'm not fond of synaptic either but each to their own. ykinmkbykiok |
| 05:07.02 | annadane | ykinmkbykiok? |
| 05:07.10 | ZaZaGX | uses synaptic |
| 05:07.13 | joze | synaptic touch devices? |
| 05:07.21 | rwp | warsoul, If you already have a running Debian installation then you can simply install cinammon and then use it. No need to re-install. |
| 05:07.43 | warsoul | rwp i have cinammon but im thinking on change it |
| 05:07.49 | warsoul | dont like it too much |
| 05:08.00 | rwp | ,i synaptic |
| 05:08.01 | judd | Package synaptic (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Graphical package manager. Version: 0.84.6; Size: 2033.7k; Installed: 7811k; Homepage: http://www.nongnu.org/synaptic/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/synaptic |
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| 05:08.25 | rwp | ,i xserver-xorg-input-synaptics |
| 05:08.26 | judd | Package xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: Synaptics TouchPad driver for X.Org server. Version: 1.9.1-1; Size: 214.6k; Installed: 324k |
| 05:08.27 | vastemptinesss | what's that window manager called, which has fixed window panes, no draggable windows? |
| 05:08.37 | annadane | uhh |
| 05:08.46 | annadane | there's probably a few |
| 05:09.00 | warsoul | rwp is kde nice? |
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| 05:09.14 | rwp | vastemptiness, Oh, you have it now but want to try something different. Okay. What are you thinking of trying? |
| 05:09.21 | annadane | KDE is fine (i don't personally like it) but don't even think of using it with nouveau |
| 05:09.45 | VadPerevad | vastemptinesss, you mean dinamic? dwm then |
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| 05:09.46 | warsoul | annadane what can i use with nouveau? |
| 05:09.49 | rwp | I suggest XFCE if you are just wanting to try something different and don't know where to go next. |
| 05:10.13 | rwp | Installing task-xfce-desktop should install XFCE and everything it wants. |
| 05:10.13 | warsoul | rwp ok how i change from cinammon to xfce? |
| 05:10.14 | annadane | KDE is more demanding in terms of its display... nouveau is crippled because nvidia won't cooperate with the project |
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| 05:10.36 | ZaZaGX | warsoul, you should use GNOME |
| 05:10.50 | warsoul | installing another desktop environment will uninstall cinammon? |
| 05:10.53 | annadane | no |
| 05:11.01 | warsoul | or i have to choose the desktop environment? |
| 05:11.04 | annadane | and GNOME certainly isn't for everyone. |
| 05:11.19 | ZaZaGX | its the most popular |
| 05:11.28 | annadane | does that mean you "should" use it? |
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| 05:11.30 | rwp | You can have multiple desktop environments installed simultaneously. You can select which one you want at login time. |
| 05:11.59 | VadPerevad | warsoul, but several DEs will made a mess in your system |
| 05:12.22 | VadPerevad | warsoul, several file managers, and so on... |
| 05:12.38 | ZaZaGX | last time i installed GNOME and KDE, and it was just a GNOME look with KDE apps |
| 05:13.05 | annadane | it's fine that you like GNOME but please don't steer users into something unless they ask for recommendations |
| 05:13.35 | rwp | KDE 3 was nice. KDE 4 was a disaster when it first released, has gotten better. I don't prefer it and do not use it. |
| 05:13.38 | rwp | GNOME 2 was nice. GNOME 3 was a disaster when it first released, has gotten better. I don't prefer it and do not use it. |
| 05:13.54 | ZaZaGX | rwp, MATE ues GNOME 2 |
| 05:13.59 | ZaZaGX | uses |
| 05:14.05 | rwp | Right. Mate is okay. |
| 05:14.16 | rwp | And Trinity for KDE 3. |
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| 05:15.22 | annadane | most desktops are essentially infinitely customizable so it's not really set in stone in terms of looks if you use this or that desktop |
| 05:15.24 | rwp | I am actually liking cinnamon quite a bit lately. Seems nice. (However I am using an i3 window manager for my main systems.) |
| 05:15.29 | annadane | see reddit.com/r/unixporn for inspiration |
| 05:15.49 | annadane | is on a very basic XFCE setup |
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| 05:16.55 | annadane | xfce is probably most comfortable to the newcomer... GNOME has no minimize/maximize icons by default, for example |
| 05:17.00 | rwp | I generally install XFCE when setting up random desktops. Mature. Not confusing. Works. |
| 05:17.12 | ZaZaGX | wow, thats some nice unix porn |
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| 05:17.35 | annadane | i've used i3 and such but xfce just fits my workflow perfectly |
| 05:18.16 | rwp | I must mention that I have used fvwm probably the longest of any window manager and still have a huge soft spot for it. :-) |
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| 05:18.35 | ZaZaGX | i like this one. https://i.redd.it/yhnoluaatyh31.png |
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| 05:18.57 | annadane | even on nvidia kde plasma takes about 30 seconds to startup on my computer so... no thanks |
| 05:19.02 | annadane | and i don't even like kde anyhow |
| 05:20.50 | ZaZaGX | dang, i think i have too much RAM memory |
| 05:21.10 | ZaZaGX | most of the time i don't even reach 4BG |
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| 05:21.46 | ZaZaGX | maybe i need a debian that takes more RAM memory |
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| 05:21.56 | rwp | Most of the htop memory hogs there were firefox processes. |
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| 05:26.49 | VadPerevad | my dwm on void linux on ancient laptop starts in 6-8 seconds ;) |
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| 05:27.21 | ZaZaGX | thats pretty fast |
| 05:27.53 | ZaZaGX | impressive. i have a newer 2018 laptop too. it takes about that long to start up |
| 05:28.20 | annadane | dwm on void linux starting in 6-8 seconds is actually massively slow |
| 05:28.22 | rwp | dwm is an interesting window manager. I must try it sometime. No config files. Just compile it as you like it. |
| 05:28.25 | annadane | void is very fast and dwm is very minimalistic |
| 05:29.04 | VadPerevad | annadane, my laptop is very ancient :) |
| 05:29.09 | annadane | duly noted |
| 05:29.12 | NetEcho | When using the netinstall cd Debian desktop environment under Software selection installs gnome even when gnome isn't selected? |
| 05:29.29 | annadane | yep, if you select desktop environment by itself, gnome is installed by default |
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| 05:29.50 | NetEcho | annadane: but if I select KDE Plasma it won't install gnome? |
| 05:30.10 | annadane | it will not. you can have both desktop environment and kde plasma selected, and it will only still kde |
| 05:30.19 | annadane | it's only if you have desktop environment checked with nothing else |
| 05:30.24 | rwp | VadPerevad, What vintage? I am typing this on an x220 which is from 2009. |
| 05:30.29 | NetEcho | oh perfect, I suspected as much but wasn't sure |
| 05:30.31 | annadane | only install kde* |
| 05:30.38 | annadane | forgive me atrocious typing at 1 AM |
| 05:30.40 | annadane | my* |
| 05:30.49 | NetEcho | annadane: no worries it's 1:30 here |
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| 05:30.54 | VadPerevad | rwp, travelmate 2490 :) |
| 05:31.07 | ZaZaGX | its kind of true. if you select desktop envioroment by itself. you don't get all the gnome apps. and no GUI to check to the wifi too |
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| 05:31.33 | NetEcho | ZaZaGX: yea I don't want gnome |
| 05:32.03 | ZaZaGX | i did that, but it just gave me like 5 apps and thats it |
| 05:32.18 | rwp | VadPerevad, Okay! You win the vintage computer contest! :-) |
| 05:32.24 | VadPerevad | rwp, it has serial number sticker on bottom to win xp home ) |
| 05:32.30 | NetEcho | ZaZaGX: you did Desktop Environment + KDE or something? |
| 05:32.43 | ZaZaGX | just Desktop Envioronment |
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| 05:33.03 | ZaZaGX | i forgot to select one upon install |
| 05:33.31 | NetEcho | ZaZaGX: ah makes sense, yea it'd have to install some sort of environment if none was selected |
| 05:33.38 | annadane | all these desktops in the install select a bunch of extraneous stuff people may not anyway which is why now i uncheck everything but standard utilities and build my system up from scratch |
| 05:33.43 | NetEcho | at least it wasn't twm :P |
| 05:33.48 | annadane | i'm using xfce but it doesn't mean i select xfce from the installer |
| 05:34.28 | rwp | NetEcho, uwm! |
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| 05:34.31 | NetEcho | annadane: yea I want to play around with it for a bit and tune it to my laptop, haven't really used linux as a desktop since around 2001 |
| 05:34.43 | annadane | twm is freebsd, right? yeah, really horribly minimalistic |
| 05:34.53 | annadane | twm is freebsd and openbsd is cwm |
| 05:35.05 | annadane | or it might be fvwm by default these days, i don't remember |
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| 05:35.19 | rwp | twm is a window manager that replaced uwm in popularity. It has existed on most X based platforms for almost forever. |
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| 05:35.59 | ZaZaGX | what uses Wayland now? |
| 05:36.07 | annadane | gnome does by default, in debian buster |
| 05:36.11 | NetEcho | yea it's generally what you'll see the first time you test X from a blank install heh |
| 05:36.11 | annadane | not sure about what else |
| 05:37.01 | NetEcho | twm reminds me a bit of Windows 3.1 lol |
| 05:37.33 | ZaZaGX | oh yeah Hanna Montona linux distro has like a alpha version of Wayland installed i think |
| 05:38.11 | rwp | I think Windows 3.1 was probably influenced by twm. But certainly both were influenced by the other earlier windowing systems. |
| 05:38.13 | ZaZaGX | hannah* |
| 05:39.00 | annadane | i kind of wish debian installed less crap by default in tasksel, but oh well |
| 05:39.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1476] by debhelper |
| 05:39.05 | annadane | i'm sure first time users are happy |
| 05:39.25 | rwp | I still use twm in VNC sessions. It is good for avoiding confusing for me to use a different, simpler, window manager in the VNC session than what is on my desktop. And twm is pretty light weight and good for VNC sessions. |
| 05:39.39 | ZaZaGX | crap, i was wrong. its Rebecca Black Linux Distro |
| 05:40.07 | annadane | i've tried using freebsd as a desktop once or twice. it's... very niche |
| 05:40.16 | annadane | it does not scream "desktop" |
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| 05:41.18 | annadane | twm is a very horrid first desktop appearance |
| 05:42.13 | rwp | I am sure that i3 would not appeal to a first time desktop experience either. Yet it has its appeal. |
| 05:44.06 | NetEcho | annadane: yeah that's something I'll be looking at, trimming my debian install but at least Debian generally just works out of the box |
| 05:44.31 | rwp | Like having nano, vim, emacs, other, available. They are all very different from each other. Diversity of choice is good for users. |
| 05:44.42 | annadane | tasksel is proably fine for most people but the distinction between firefox esr and firefox can be confusing |
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| 05:46.10 | NetEcho | yea I'm not overly familiar with ESR but the gist I get from it is; trading off the latest greatest features for enhanced security and stability |
| 05:47.53 | annadane | so, whatever. live and learn, make mistakes, and over time you'll probably have a more and more minimal system |
| 05:47.54 | rwp | NetEcho, Firefox ESR is a reduced thrash release. Changes least often but still updates enough to be usable. |
| 05:48.48 | rwp | For people who value reliability and stability over fluff and glitter. |
| 05:49.22 | NetEcho | rwp: makes sense |
| 05:49.30 | ZaZaGX | Like Ubuntu? |
| 05:49.41 | annadane | pre-quantum it probably would've been quite bad just because firefox 60 introduced so many speed improvements |
| 05:49.43 | NetEcho | sort of the same theory behind using a LTS kernel versus the latest kernel |
| 05:49.59 | annadane | i undersand stability but i just started using mainstream firefox |
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| 05:50.41 | annadane | stability and no new features is great... for some things. some things, people do actually want newer stuff |
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| 05:51.29 | NetEcho | yea depends on the use case of the machine |
| 05:51.57 | NetEcho | my laptop is generally going to be used when I'm travelling around to work on other people's crap so ESR will likely be fine for me |
| 05:53.22 | annadane | also one version means less attack surface |
| 05:53.32 | annadane | so ESR as a matter of principle probably should be preferred |
| 05:53.36 | warsoul | guys and what window manager you recommend me for my video card? |
| 05:53.47 | NetEcho | warsoul: what video card? |
| 05:53.54 | annadane | if you're just on nouveau and don't want the nvidia proprietary driver... xfce is fine |
| 05:54.03 | warsoul | geforce gtx 1060 |
| 05:54.04 | rwp | Due to Firefox not giving me a way to set keybindings but Chromium allowing me to set them I mostly use Chromium. |
| 05:54.07 | rwp | And it saves me from myself of spending too much time web surfing. Due to "Oh snap!" telling me to stop surving. |
| 05:54.10 | annadane | if you don't mind using nvidia then anything is fine, depends on what you want |
| 05:54.18 | NetEcho | warsoul: with that card you can choose whichever window manager you like |
| 05:54.28 | NetEcho | and what annadane said |
| 05:54.32 | annadane | not on nouveau, you can't. |
| 05:55.10 | NetEcho | I'm surprised nouveau isn't there yet |
| 05:55.27 | rwp | It is just KDE's insane animations that don't work well on nouveau. But I haven't run into anything else that has problems. |
| 05:55.28 | annadane | blame nvidia |
| 05:55.48 | warsoul | and what else i can use beside nouveau |
| 05:55.51 | annadane | maybe the situation improved, i don't know. i used to get crashes on kde with nouveau |
| 05:55.53 | NetEcho | to think once upon a time nVidia was the way to go for linux |
| 05:56.02 | rwp | For most people as long as it plays videos then it is fine. Nouveau plays full res videos fine. |
| 05:56.08 | annadane | well, you can install the nvidia proprietary driver if you don't want to use nouveau |
| 05:56.33 | warsoul | and if i install nouveau that doesnt matter? |
| 05:56.49 | annadane | if you play high graphic games you'll want to use nvidia... if you don't use your computer for a whole lot of specialized tasks i'm sure nouveau is fine |
| 05:56.56 | rwp | warsoul, I advise to ignore the various chitchat that is all side channel complaining about the sorry state of free graphics drivers. |
| 05:57.03 | annadane | i advise that as well |
| 05:57.05 | annadane | sorry |
| 05:57.23 | warsoul | ok |
| 05:57.31 | warsoul | what you suggested me to do? |
| 05:57.41 | annadane | https://xkcd.com/309/ |
| 05:57.50 | annadane | well, what desktop do you use now? |
| 05:58.06 | warsoul | cinammon |
| 05:58.13 | annadane | i guess that's fine |
| 05:58.22 | warsoul | ok |
| 05:58.23 | rwp | I suggest you install the nouveau driver and don't worry further until you have an actual performance problem with it. It will be fine for you. |
| 05:58.31 | warsoul | after the installation and upgrade |
| 05:58.33 | warsoul | i should restart? |
| 05:59.02 | annadane | you upgraded the 210 packages? i don't know what you upgraded, but if it's that much the answer is "probably" |
| 05:59.04 | rwp | Because you were so behind I am sure it installed a new Linux kernel. So yes you should reboot in order to run the updated Linux kernel. |
| 05:59.21 | warsoul | ok |
| 05:59.22 | NetEcho | loves that the mirror he uses for apt is only 30km away :P |
| 05:59.49 | NetEcho | my niece actually attends the university it's hosted at |
| 06:00.21 | annadane | i'm in a really chatty mood tonight and i'm probably really being annoying and i apologize |
| 06:00.41 | NetEcho | annadane: no worries, I see you're a fellow Canuck too :P |
| 06:00.45 | rwp | Isn't it like 2am there for you now? It just rolled midnight for me here. |
| 06:00.51 | annadane | yarp |
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| 06:00.58 | NetEcho | Ontario? |
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| 06:01.03 | annadane | QC |
| 06:01.09 | rwp | Colorado |
| 06:01.24 | NetEcho | ON here :D |
| 06:02.04 | annadane | there's a terrible habit people can get into on channels like this with softball questions, you end up in tier 1 help desk support mode and start trying to answer everything |
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| 06:02.12 | rwp | In the old days we would all be listening to the dit-dah-dit-dah and mapping Q-signs. |
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| 06:02.36 | warsoul | looks better now |
| 06:02.38 | warsoul | lol |
| 06:03.42 | rwp | is going to try not to be up all night and bids everyone a Good Night |
| 06:03.51 | warsoul | how do i upgrade my cinammon |
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| 06:04.23 | NetEcho | Good night rwp |
| 06:04.48 | NetEcho | warsoul: have you tried apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade? |
| 06:05.00 | NetEcho | that'll update everything that's out of date |
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| 06:05.56 | NetEcho | gees I'm half way through installing Buster on my laptop and just realized the touchpad isn't working lol... I'm so bloody used to keyboard only installs |
| 06:07.36 | warsoul | guys when i click on menu and on search type terminal i see two types |
| 06:07.46 | warsoul | thai x terminal |
| 06:07.56 | warsoul | multingual terminal |
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| 06:08.37 | annadane | i don't even remember what cinnamon uses |
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| 06:09.02 | NetEcho | I'd think either would work |
| 06:09.27 | warsoul | annadane what environment you use? |
| 06:09.32 | annadane | xfce |
| 06:10.10 | warsoul | if i want to uninstall cinammon and install xfce i can? |
| 06:10.44 | NetEcho | warsoul: you could even install xfce and switch between them |
| 06:11.16 | warsoul | how i install xfce? |
| 06:11.42 | annadane | it uh, depends what you want... you can apt install xfce4 but then you also get yet another file manager |
| 06:11.50 | annadane | which you can just ignore, it's only disk space |
| 06:11.57 | NetEcho | warsoul: https://wiki.debian.org/Xfce#Install_Xfce_in_an_already_installed_system |
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| 06:15.42 | NetEcho | brb smoke break |
| 06:15.49 | ZaZaGX | you smoke? |
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| 06:18.04 | annadane | anyhow... desktops and GUIs are just utilities. you can make them look how you want in many different ways or even mix and match components from several different ones |
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| 06:19.42 | annadane | if you install too many bloated desktop packages you'll end up with weird side effects, however |
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| 06:21.12 | annadane | there's large and small versions of each of them, task-gnome-desktop will install gnome, games, web browser, libreoffice... but you can install smaller packages like gnome-core |
| 06:21.15 | annadane | or even smaller |
| 06:21.37 | ZaZaGX | whoa, i didn't know there is a gnome-core |
| 06:22.23 | annadane | apt show <package> is a good way of looking at what you're about to install, Depends and Recommends get installed by default |
| 06:22.23 | apt | annadane: okay |
| 06:22.28 | annadane | and apt search <package> |
| 06:22.32 | warsoul | annadane im using hexchat i saw on google image that hexchat shows the op in a channel with @ |
| 06:22.42 | warsoul | but mines is with a green dot . |
| 06:22.49 | warsoul | like xchat |
| 06:22.53 | NetEcho | ZaZaGX: unfortunately |
| 06:22.55 | annadane | mine is too, i guess it depends on some configuration |
| 06:23.08 | annadane | !newcomer |
| 06:23.09 | dpkg | Welcome to Debian! Here's some resources to help you on your merry way: The Debian Handbook: https://debian-handbook.info/ Reference manual: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ FAQ: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ - reading https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian is also a very good idea. |
| 06:23.12 | warsoul | i dont like that green dot lol |
| 06:23.15 | annadane | warsoul, ^ you may want to read some of that |
| 06:23.48 | annadane | wonders when the handbook will stop being debian 8... |
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| 06:24.28 | warsoul | annadane how do i know if my cinammon needs a update |
| 06:25.00 | annadane | it's pretty rare cinnamon will get updates until the next stable release but a good way to keep abreast of updates is by subscribing to debian-security-announce |
| 06:25.16 | annadane | or install some kind of package update icon |
| 06:25.24 | annadane | i'm using package-update-indicator on xfce |
| 06:25.33 | annadane | don't know if cinnamon has one natively |
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| 06:25.58 | warsoul | im changing lol |
| 06:26.14 | annadane | i'd probably subscribe to https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/ and https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/ |
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| 06:26.44 | warsoul | annadane i can install xfce and use it and if i like it i can delete cinammon? |
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| 06:26.55 | annadane | but stable in general doesn't get updates very often and i doubt cinnamon ever will until 2 years from now when it's the next stable release |
| 06:27.01 | annadane | yes |
| 06:27.55 | warsoul | annadane how can i do that? |
| 06:28.07 | warsoul | i will like xfce with webbrowser hexchat, etc. |
| 06:28.25 | annadane | if you already have those installed you don't need to do anything to install xfce |
| 06:28.31 | annadane | apt install xfce4 is fine |
| 06:28.31 | apt | okay, annadane |
| 06:29.19 | warsoul | you dont like cinammon? |
| 06:29.34 | annadane | it's... okay, i've just gotten used to xfce4 |
| 06:29.46 | annadane | maybe a little bit bloated for my tastes |
| 06:29.55 | warsoul | themes are not working good on mines |
| 06:29.57 | warsoul | i dont know |
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| 06:31.59 | annadane | you can do a lot with xfce. it appears simple but is actually quite powerful |
| 06:32.24 | annadane | it's really up to the user to experiment and find out what they're comfortable with |
| 06:32.26 | warsoul | annadane done |
| 06:32.32 | warsoul | how i change to xfce? |
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| 06:33.00 | annadane | log out and select it from your login screen. optionally, you may also want xfce4-goodies, you can see the package description with apt show xfce4-goodies. but that's up to you |
| 06:34.11 | warsoul | what come in the goodies |
| 06:34.22 | annadane | like i said, see the package description... |
| 06:34.27 | warsoul | ok |
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| 06:35.44 | annadane | i'd certainly do some reading as i linked earlier with !newcomer, it will help you |
| 06:35.54 | annadane | the reference manual is a little bit dense but it can be helpful as well |
| 06:36.16 | annadane | https://www.togaware.com/linux/survivor/ is also quite nice |
| 06:36.39 | annadane | well, i suppose that's more linux oriented in general as opposed to debian specific |
| 06:37.15 | annadane | but we're here to help too! :) |
| 06:37.24 | annadane | don't be afraid to ask, it's how you learn anything |
| 06:38.51 | warsoul | done annadane |
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| 06:38.59 | warsoul | i think i like this one more lol... |
| 06:39.03 | weedloser | interesting |
| 06:39.07 | weedloser | xfce > |
| 06:48.08 | NetEcho | Apparently I'm missing some firmware at boot time |
| 06:48.29 | NetEcho | radeon, amdgpu and AthrBT_Ox31010000 |
| 06:49.37 | warsoul | NetEcho i have some errors to |
| 06:49.44 | warsoul | but i dont get to see them |
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| 06:49.55 | NetEcho | yeah these ones affect my ability to have X running heh |
| 06:50.05 | annadane | very much depends on the errors warsoul |
| 06:52.24 | NetEcho | annadane: the odd part is I used the nonfree installer to avoid this problem but it would seem that didn't help and the wiki article it points me to only has instructions for fixing the problem during the install process. is there a way to fix this without having to spend another 2 hours installing? |
| 06:53.06 | annadane | well you can just install the firmware now |
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| 06:53.13 | annadane | not sure why it didn't work during the install |
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| 06:53.54 | weedloser | the non-free installer doesn't count microcode i believe |
| 06:53.57 | NetEcho | also the wiki points to several different bin files I.e. amdgpu has probably 3 pages of bin files |
| 06:54.00 | annadane | athrbt is just firmware-atheros, i'm surprised that isn't included/didn't work |
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| 06:54.25 | annadane | well, paste the output of dmesg | grep -i firmware |
| 06:54.33 | annadane | also is it a laptop? |
| 06:54.41 | weedloser | NetEcho: I usually just do a minimal install of debian and do a sudo apt install firmware-amd-graphics intel-microcode |
| 06:54.52 | warsoul | annadane why when i boot to debian it takes a few time to start up |
| 06:54.54 | weedloser | then do the DE |
| 06:55.10 | annadane | warsoul, no idea. highly depends on your hardware |
| 06:55.18 | NetEcho | weedloser: I'm assuming intel-microcode would be pointless for AMD heh |
| 06:55.22 | weedloser | I think the firmware anal'ism is hurting linux and debian more than doing good to be honest. |
| 06:55.27 | weedloser | sure, amd-microcode in that case |
| 06:55.34 | annadane | not really |
| 06:55.43 | NetEcho | any point in installing firmware-linux-nonfree ? |
| 06:55.46 | warsoul | annadane i have a fast pc i think lol |
| 06:55.46 | annadane | debian is 100% free software by default and it's a very important part of policy |
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| 06:56.04 | annadane | warsoul, it's very difficult to diagnose some things when your questions are so general |
| 06:56.08 | annadane | someone else may be able to answer |
| 06:56.14 | weedloser | NetEcho: it's a metapackage that includes firmware-misc-nonfree (intel igpu and other stuff) the amd graphics and both microcodes. |
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| 06:56.41 | weedloser | annadane: I already understand that. |
| 06:56.52 | NetEcho | oh ok so better to do firmware-amd-graphics firmware-atheros and amd-microcode? |
| 06:56.52 | weedloser | I don't agree. |
| 06:56.58 | weedloser | sure |
| 06:57.07 | weedloser | ^ this is what happens |
| 06:57.20 | annadane | i s'pose. |
| 06:57.55 | annadane | i know void gives you all the firmware at the start to be able to install it and then you can remove it all later if you want |
| 06:57.59 | annadane | same for siduction |
| 06:58.16 | NetEcho | does firmware-amd-graphics also have the older radeon stuff? I'm not exactly sure which of the two kernel drivers supports this chipset. It's A8-6410 APU with AMD R4/R5 Series Graphics |
| 06:58.19 | weedloser | erm, 99% of non-kiss distributions do |
| 06:58.29 | weedloser | and it's completely reasonable in my opinion. |
| 06:58.43 | weedloser | firwmare != malicious code, it doesn't run on your cpu. |
| 06:59.10 | weedloser | gnu guix is honestly the only other distribution i can come to think of |
| 06:59.18 | weedloser | and the other purists. |
| 06:59.28 | weedloser | NetEcho: yes. |
| 06:59.39 | NetEcho | weedloser: perfect thank you |
| 06:59.46 | weedloser | the documentation regarding this (everything) should be much much better. |
| 06:59.57 | weedloser | https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages is your friend |
| 07:00.00 | ZaZaGX | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:00.01 | ZaZaGX | 23:59 < weedloser> gnu guix is honestly the only other distribution i can come |
| 07:00.01 | ZaZaGX | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:00.06 | ZaZaGX | ops |
| 07:00.15 | weedloser | lol |
| 07:00.29 | weedloser | NetEcho: https://packages.debian.org/buster/firmware-amd-graphics |
| 07:00.35 | weedloser | here you can see all the binaries |
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| 07:01.35 | NetEcho | perfect thankyou, I see the Mullins/Beema stuff there |
| 07:01.46 | weedloser | great |
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| 07:01.58 | NetEcho | now hopefully I'll have a desktop on reboot |
| 07:02.19 | annadane | at least you can mostly get debian *installed* to install the basic firmware on desktops |
| 07:02.26 | annadane | laptops, you basically should always use the non free image |
| 07:02.34 | weedloser | OS's needing to load firmware for hardware is flawed architectures |
| 07:02.46 | NetEcho | looks like it's trying |
| 07:02.57 | NetEcho | yay login screen :D |
| 07:03.03 | weedloser | https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/tree/ |
| 07:03.07 | weedloser | here's the upstream |
| 07:03.32 | weedloser | NetEcho: nice. |
| 07:03.38 | NetEcho | annadane: weird part is even though I used the nonfree image it still didn't install the firmware heh.. it atleast enabled nonfree in sources.list |
| 07:03.53 | annadane | yeah, i don't know. sorry. A Wizard Did It |
| 07:04.00 | weedloser | the debian installer has an autodetection mechanism for 'missing firmware' |
| 07:04.23 | weedloser | this only goes for wifi cards, but looks like it failed you |
| 07:04.34 | NetEcho | it did detect my atheros wifi card |
| 07:04.38 | weedloser | oh, ok |
| 07:04.40 | Lady_Aleena | Hello. I forgot the proper way to restart apache. Would someone please tell me what I should use? |
| 07:04.46 | NetEcho | I did the entire install over wifi, so at least that was working |
| 07:04.47 | annadane | systemctl restart apache2? |
| 07:04.53 | weedloser | ok, good. |
| 07:04.54 | Lady_Aleena | annadane, thanks. |
| 07:05.12 | weedloser | the firmware policy is also a security risk |
| 07:05.20 | Lady_Aleena | annadane, as root? |
| 07:05.27 | NetEcho | Lady_Aleena: yes |
| 07:05.34 | annadane | yes as root |
| 07:05.34 | weedloser | it's a bit contradicting that the security team recommends you to install intel-microcode to patch the spectre etc issues |
| 07:05.55 | weedloser | linux sucks. |
| 07:06.32 | annadane | no u |
| 07:06.40 | annadane | strokes computer |
| 07:06.51 | EdePopede | sure it does: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/ |
| 07:07.08 | weedloser | I mean, i'm not joking |
| 07:07.12 | weedloser | install openbsd once and come back |
| 07:07.13 | *** join/#debian mase-tech (~mase-tech@2a02:908:1875:c600:44ca:f669:e4ec:7e54) |
| 07:07.30 | weedloser | debian and guixsd are at least copable. |
| 07:07.48 | NetEcho | is openbsd painful to work with? |
| 07:07.53 | weedloser | opposite |
| 07:08.07 | weedloser | i meant that it's better |
| 07:08.21 | ZaZaGX | isn't openbsd had like 2 vulerablities in a whole lifetime? Microsoft wish they had a record like that i heard |
| 07:08.32 | weedloser | remote holes in the default install |
| 07:08.39 | weedloser | yes |
| 07:08.42 | NetEcho | *BSD in general is pretty solid |
| 07:08.45 | weedloser | ^ |
| 07:08.57 | EdePopede | i should finally build up that other computer, change the disks, install stable and give it some more ram. *then* i'll think about bsd and what not in a vm ;) |
| 07:09.19 | ZaZaGX | i wouldn't know where to get BSD help online |
| 07:09.29 | annadane | i've gone through "today, i shall set up a freebsd desktop. now, what first... <95 manual things>" |
| 07:09.31 | weedloser | https://www.openbsd.org/faq/index.html |
| 07:09.41 | annadane | i'm sure it's all lovely (not that i can use openbsd, thank you nvidia) |
| 07:09.43 | weedloser | freebsd is a mess |
| 07:09.45 | NetEcho | I've got a FreeNAS based media server which is based on FreeBSD, that thing has been running great for years |
| 07:09.58 | Lady_Aleena | Now, why aren't there configuration files for apache2 in ~/.config instead of me having to edit its config files as root all the time? |
| 07:10.06 | weedloser | >freebsd is a mess but still better than linux |
| 07:10.12 | NetEcho | lol |
| 07:10.20 | NetEcho | weedloser: a mess how? |
| 07:10.29 | ZaZaGX | is freebsd better? |
| 07:10.43 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: httpds usually run on privileged port 80, thus are a root thing per default |
| 07:10.58 | NetEcho | ok so it turns out I dislike KDE Plasma as much as I dislike gnome 3 lol |
| 07:11.00 | weedloser | well, it's not really suitable as a sane desktop |
| 07:11.02 | annadane | linux may suck but it's what i'm used to and does what i want |
| 07:11.09 | weedloser | freebsd devs mostly run macs, which also are better than linux |
| 07:11.27 | ZaZaGX | weedloser, why does linux sucks? |
| 07:11.32 | EdePopede | macs.. as in Hardware? |
| 07:11.34 | weedloser | it's not really secure by default, you have to struggle a bit to get something good going |
| 07:11.42 | weedloser | EdePopede: sure, you'll need that to run macos |
| 07:11.45 | NetEcho | weedloser: ah that makes sense, I've not heard of many people using it as a desktop os |
| 07:11.48 | Bushmills | runs a slide rule |
| 07:12.05 | EdePopede | weedloser: so you were just comparing a hardware platform to a kernel? |
| 07:12.08 | weedloser | openbsd is extremely sane default, it's much easier than any linux distro you've ever heard of to adminester |
| 07:12.12 | annadane | at least debian is mostly sane, though openssl as a concept scares me |
| 07:12.23 | annadane | void/openbsd actually use libressl |
| 07:12.47 | weedloser | EdePopede: no, i meant to compare macos to linux |
| 07:13.04 | weedloser | but you need macs to run it, so that's why |
| 07:13.11 | weedloser | but it depends how you look at it |
| 07:13.22 | ZaZaGX | i thought mac os is less secure than linux? |
| 07:13.26 | *** join/#debian Zvmdyv (~Zvmdyv@unaffiliated/zvmdyv) |
| 07:13.36 | weedloser | we can't know ;) |
| 07:13.50 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, can't there be a .conf file that is read into the main apache2.conf or something? |
| 07:13.58 | weedloser | but apple does a few things great. |
| 07:14.04 | weedloser | altough they're a dirteh corp. |
| 07:14.10 | weedloser | better than deadrat :tm: |
| 07:14.17 | NetEcho | ZaZaGX: it may be, but it is a BSD derivative so it could be more secure aside from their own spyware :P |
| 07:14.27 | Lady_Aleena | My main reason for wanting a user config for apache2 is I hate using nano. |
| 07:14.30 | ZaZaGX | there is a youtube user named "null byte" he give you instructions to how to hack mac os security and stuff. and other stuff like using Kali linux |
| 07:14.47 | annadane | well, nobody cares about kali linux |
| 07:14.51 | annadane | neeeeeext |
| 07:15.02 | ZaZaGX | why not annadane? |
| 07:15.02 | weedloser | kali linux is an USB debian with some l33t hacking tools preinstalled |
| 07:15.08 | weedloser | there |
| 07:15.10 | weedloser | next |
| 07:15.19 | NetEcho | lol |
| 07:15.41 | annadane | so if freebsd is a mess, and you can't get WINE on openbsd or really play games... and void is... lacking in documentation... WTF do we us |
| 07:15.41 | annadane | e |
| 07:15.50 | annadane | gives up and moves back into the caves |
| 07:15.52 | ZaZaGX | https://objective-see.com/ |
| 07:16.05 | weedloser | annadane: give up games on the computer you use openbsd on |
| 07:16.09 | weedloser | games are harmful anyway :D |
| 07:16.16 | Lady_Aleena | head desks. |
| 07:16.18 | ZaZaGX | that website has a bunch of mac os sample viruses you can try. and it has some free security software |
| 07:16.30 | weedloser | not gonna click that |
| 07:16.32 | weedloser | xd |
| 07:16.41 | ZaZaGX | you have to unzip them first |
| 07:16.51 | weedloser | clicks it |
| 07:16.51 | annadane | i like freebsd as a concept but it really needs a bit more hand holding for first time users |
| 07:17.07 | weedloser | freebsd is good for capitalistic servers |
| 07:17.07 | annadane | it is noooot intuitive, no matter how much the fanboys promote it |
| 07:17.12 | weedloser | ^ |
| 07:17.27 | ZaZaGX | i like that LuLu firewall, you can select which traffic to block out going. mac os doesn't do that by default |
| 07:17.30 | annadane | yes i know, handbook, yes i know, great man pages |
| 07:17.33 | annadane | i stand by what i said |
| 07:17.37 | NetEcho | annadane: very true, I set my server up back in 2014 and it wasn't until last summer that I finally realized a lot of critical mistakes I had made and corrected them |
| 07:17.40 | annadane | fuck setting up freebsd blind |
| 07:17.47 | weedloser | that's what i'm saying. |
| 07:17.56 | weedloser | in openbsd you only need to read man pages |
| 07:18.00 | weedloser | you're covered |
| 07:18.04 | NetEcho | and then FreeNAS finally updated to the iocage jails and I had to re-learn lol |
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| 07:18.14 | annadane | can't even use openbsd; nvidia card |
| 07:18.21 | weedloser | screw that nvidia card |
| 07:18.23 | ZaZaGX | weedloser, let me burrow your mac. let me load the 120 viruses on that website for you |
| 07:18.23 | annadane | so, anyway, debian works fine for me for now |
| 07:18.26 | weedloser | use intel and intel igpu |
| 07:18.28 | weedloser | :D |
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| 07:18.38 | annadane | yes well if i knew about nvidia's attitude before i bought this pc... |
| 07:19.03 | weedloser | nvidia > amd |
| 07:19.08 | weedloser | but property softweer sucks |
| 07:19.11 | weedloser | so just use intel |
| 07:19.11 | *** join/#debian Ingvix (~Ingvix@134.19.189.116) |
| 07:19.25 | NetEcho | see I remember nVidia having the best attitude towards linux back in the day (early GeForce days) |
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| 07:19.44 | weedloser | i mean, their property drivers work really well when they do work |
| 07:19.50 | annadane | yep |
| 07:19.56 | annadane | openbsd just won't touch it because philosophy |
| 07:20.05 | annadane | quite correctly |
| 07:20.10 | weedloser | for a lot of other reasons |
| 07:20.16 | weedloser | it just doesn't make sense to even bother |
| 07:20.21 | ZaZaGX | so openbsd sucks? |
| 07:20.23 | annadane | nope |
| 07:20.29 | weedloser | that's totally what we're saying |
| 07:20.35 | weedloser | just throw out your computer at this point |
| 07:20.42 | weedloser | nothing rocks. |
| 07:21.03 | NetEcho | So to sum up... BSD Sucks Linux Sucks Mac Sucks... I know! Install Windows!!!! |
| 07:21.08 | NetEcho | :P |
| 07:21.14 | weedloser | but unironically :D |
| 07:21.16 | annadane | void is a really cool mix of linux + bsdisms but it doesn't have the biggest community and it's poorly documented |
| 07:21.32 | weedloser | musl isn't actually usable either |
| 07:21.35 | weedloser | but good try |
| 07:21.42 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena, as for nano: since i can't live without a file manager on the shell and mc is open anyway i usually use its internal editor for such tasks. |
| 07:22.14 | weedloser | alpine pulled it off better |
| 07:22.22 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, there is a file manager in the shell? How is that possible? |
| 07:22.25 | weedloser | but unusable |
| 07:22.41 | NetEcho | Lady_Aleena: mc (midnight commander) it's ancient but still great |
| 07:22.53 | weedloser | gets angry at linux userspace again |
| 07:22.54 | ZaZaGX | i can't afford Windows 10. |
| 07:23.01 | annadane | so, anyway, freebsd is disappointing and they'd do well to listen to the idiot linux users |
| 07:23.02 | weedloser | MC is good |
| 07:23.07 | annadane | we may be idiots but we need something that actually works |
| 07:23.11 | NetEcho | ZaZaGX: buy a volume license on amazon for like $8 |
| 07:23.14 | ZaZaGX | Microsoft wants me to pay them 200 bucks for the Pro |
| 07:23.25 | weedloser | just don't use pro? |
| 07:23.25 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena, as for configs: you can Include other files (usually from the conf.d subdirectory using your own) as it already does near the end of the .conf with some files. (i like to keep things clean, so i get one of my own configs included which then does the rest) |
| 07:23.27 | weedloser | home is free |
| 07:23.33 | NetEcho | it's technically legal you just can't get official MS support and can't migrate it to new hardware |
| 07:23.50 | NetEcho | ZaZaGX: what country are you in? |
| 07:23.56 | weedloser | i've heard a lot of good about that long support release w10 |
| 07:24.02 | weedloser | nowhere to actually get it though. |
| 07:24.02 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: remember good old norton commander? well, it's become the grampa of a really big widespread family ;) |
| 07:24.07 | weedloser | tragic |
| 07:24.44 | ZaZaGX | I live in USA, California, not that far from Los Angeles |
| 07:24.53 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, I never used Norton Commander. I usually manage files from the gui. |
| 07:24.57 | weedloser | I'll eventually give up and just install that long support release on a second hard drive to play my harmful gmaes |
| 07:25.07 | weedloser | imagine bothering with gpu passtrough :DDDDDD |
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| 07:25.46 | EdePopede | ZaZaGX: i bought some used computer for something like 100 bucks last year, came with w10home included. had an option for pro, but i didn't feel like giving redmond more money than i had to. |
| 07:25.52 | Lady_Aleena | And I was going to try to get some help getting my apache configs in order on OFTC, but the debian-apache channel there is very sparsely populated. |
| 07:26.45 | weedloser | EdePopede: speaking off, you can get dell laptops (and desktops, maybe?) without an os |
| 07:26.48 | weedloser | you spare a 100 bucks |
| 07:26.49 | ZaZaGX | I got this laptop with Windows 10 home, but i wiped it, and installed Ubuntu and used it for like a year, than wiped it and installed Debian. |
| 07:27.09 | ZaZaGX | my first ever debian is buster |
| 07:27.17 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: there's no real difference besides pixel based vs character cell based. no nifty icons, but who cares. and ways faster. and fully usable with the keyboard, so no endless click orgies. |
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| 07:27.36 | weedloser | my debian desktop lol |
| 07:27.38 | weedloser | https://0x0.st/zWEK.png |
| 07:27.40 | weedloser | share yours! |
| 07:27.50 | annadane | if you look hard enough, essentially everything sucks and has significant flaws |
| 07:27.53 | annadane | even openbsd |
| 07:28.00 | annadane | so, whatever. debian works, for my purposes |
| 07:28.02 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, that's why I learn most of the keyboard shortcuts for gui programs quickly. |
| 07:28.03 | NetEcho | ZaZaGX: can't find it on the US store but this may work for you, the price went up a little but I used it a few months ago and it worked just fine https://www.amazon.ca/W%C3%ADnd%D0%BEws-Professional-Download-Lifetime-Activation/dp/B07M9VX6W8/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=Windows+10+License&qid=1566631611&s=gateway&sr=8-5 |
| 07:28.06 | weedloser | even though that hurt a little, you're right |
| 07:28.43 | weedloser | situation: there are now x +1 softwarez/distros/os's |
| 07:29.17 | Lady_Aleena | I needed this break from writing svg. I am beginning to lose it a bit. So change is good. |
| 07:29.17 | *** join/#debian humpled (~i@unaffiliated/humbag) |
| 07:29.18 | ZaZaGX | how can it be that cheap? |
| 07:29.46 | annadane | i am very highly tempted to buy a new computer purely to scrap nvidia |
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| 07:30.05 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: the main reason for me to use mc is the two panes. never felt like going with one of these windows explorer/mac finder clones. if you remember the days of windows 3.x, there was fileman.exe. it's only purpose had been to get norton out of the market. that should say enough about which model is the superior one ;) |
| 07:30.05 | NetEcho | ZaZaGX: it's meant as an additional key for a volume license so it technically violates Microsofts terms so you lose access to their tech support and you can't migrate it to new hardware after it's been activated |
| 07:30.36 | ZaZaGX | Mircosoft has a tech support? |
| 07:30.45 | NetEcho | ZaZaGX: apparently lol |
| 07:31.00 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, I tend to let myself forget things that I don't use anymore. So I do not remember fileman.exe. |
| 07:31.02 | J_C | I use a Dell XPS 9360 if we're talking about laptops |
| 07:31.14 | EdePopede | you have 3 calls free after registration or so i've read many years ago. never did either xD |
| 07:31.23 | ZaZaGX | I went to the Mircosoft store. And I had a hard time navigating the Windows menu. I didn't know what to click on and i feel overwhelm |
| 07:31.26 | J_C | It is good, but the "Killer" WiFi cards cause problems, even for Windows users. |
| 07:31.28 | zamuro | Well, people that pay licensing are supposed to have support somehow. |
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| 07:31.42 | NetEcho | yeah Windows 10 is a bit counter-intuitive |
| 07:31.49 | annadane | just a bit |
| 07:31.55 | zamuro | But I've never seen a "home" user getting support from microsoft whatsoever. |
| 07:32.03 | NetEcho | J_C: yea I have a Killer NIC and it can be bothersome at times |
| 07:32.29 | NetEcho | zamuro: I believe all they'd support is activation type issues |
| 07:32.50 | zamuro | LOL indeed |
| 07:33.03 | ZaZaGX | I used to have Dell Ubuntu tech support. really bad people from india. they didn't know what Ubuntu is |
| 07:33.15 | ZaZaGX | really bad tech support i mean |
| 07:33.22 | zamuro | Even at enterprise level, unless you're like goldman sachs or some shit like that, you won't get support. |
| 07:33.22 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: sounds familiar ;) that's why i started playing around with wikis years ago, since i don't really like the desktop solutions and the hard linking between program and files (code and data). and for a notebook with enriched linked content i can't imagine any better concept. |
| 07:33.27 | weedloser | J_C: dell xps is great |
| 07:33.28 | NetEcho | which when you pay <$20 for the license at that point you cut your losses and/or pirate the damn thing lol |
| 07:33.43 | weedloser | annadane: don't do it now, just wait for intel 10nm desktops and their dgpus |
| 07:33.48 | weedloser | they're gonna be epic |
| 07:33.51 | NetEcho | Dell is hit or miss |
| 07:34.05 | J_C | NetEcho: Yep. Luckily, the 9360 is the last of the XPS 13 line that allows you to replaced the card, so I just bought an Intel card and replaced it |
| 07:34.06 | weedloser | dell does really great hardware in my experience |
| 07:34.09 | weedloser | thinkpad has gone to crap |
| 07:34.14 | annadane | my goodwill toward intel isn't exactly high |
| 07:34.15 | weedloser | so that's your only choice, i think |
| 07:34.19 | NetEcho | my old Dell laptop was a beast that never died on me. the one my parents bought lasted 24 hours |
| 07:34.21 | ZaZaGX | Vista Black on the pirate bay has a bunch of viruses in it |
| 07:34.28 | annadane | rather support AMD |
| 07:34.33 | weedloser | annadane: why? |
| 07:34.43 | NetEcho | this laptop I'm working on is a Lenovo Flex 2 |
| 07:34.48 | zamuro | Why getting support from a vendor on linux when you have all these merry folks at IRC? LOL |
| 07:34.53 | annadane | the whole spectre stuff doesn't inspire confidence and their corporate toxicity generally |
| 07:34.53 | weedloser | both are businesses, it's silly to pick and choose based on corporate ethics. |
| 07:34.58 | weedloser | they make better products |
| 07:35.14 | weedloser | AMD is no good either |
| 07:35.17 | Lady_Aleena | I would LOVE to get my apache2 configs in order. I KNOW I should not be editing apache2.conf, but I don't know much about the whole sites-available/enabled thing. |
| 07:35.19 | zamuro | You can always make a question about ubuntu here and you'll get a response right away. |
| 07:35.23 | J_C | The ThinkPad X395 looks good though. |
| 07:35.30 | annadane | yeah like "go bother #ubuntu" |
| 07:35.34 | zamuro | Maybe not the one you want, but a resonse nontheless xD |
| 07:35.35 | EdePopede | ah, Lenovo. said other PC is a thinkcentre. learned some weeks ago that it is one of the companies i'd better keep my hands off, thanks to proprietary crap. |
| 07:36.11 | weedloser | think like this: intel contributes large amounts of code back to lunix and other open source stuff |
| 07:36.14 | weedloser | amd doesn't |
| 07:36.14 | zamuro | Lady_Aleena: It's kind of self explanatory: sites-available are the actual config files. |
| 07:36.15 | NetEcho | yeah they've done some shady things lately |
| 07:36.19 | weedloser | corporate ethics aside |
| 07:36.28 | annadane | fair, i guess |
| 07:36.35 | zamuro | Lady_Aleena: whereas sites-enabled are symlinks created by a2ensite |
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| 07:37.05 | NetEcho | zamuro: I will say this, most of the mainstream distro channels have gotten a lot friendlier over the years |
| 07:37.06 | weedloser | intel's firmware is also enourmusly better, with zen we still have buggy firmware to this day |
| 07:37.29 | weedloser | amd fine wine :tm: |
| 07:37.53 | zamuro | NetEcho: Hell yeah!! I mean, ten years ago this conversation wouldn't be poosible without someone crying about "off-topic" |
| 07:37.54 | Lady_Aleena | zamuro, I never really got into getting apache2's sites-available/enabled set up. I just edit apache2.conf because it is easier to remember, I guess. |
| 07:38.00 | annadane | wonder if i could set up a chroot for wine in openbsd and flatpaks generally... |
| 07:38.16 | weedloser | ahahahah |
| 07:38.23 | annadane | i'll take thar as a "no" |
| 07:38.26 | NetEcho | zamuro: or most questions being answered with "RTFM you n00b!" |
| 07:38.28 | weedloser | ;) |
| 07:38.32 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: of course it uses the default config per default. so you have two options: a) change the default config in some way (even if it's just an Include section at its end using your own bunch of config files where you override things); or b) start it with an option to use an alternative config - which could live in the subdirectory or maybe in /usr/local somewhere or so, if you want to throw everything related into this space |
| 07:38.38 | Lady_Aleena | And I think apache2.conf is the only config file where I can set up localhost. |
| 07:38.49 | zamuro | Lady_Aleena: Well, you gotta take into account what's the benefit of that. I mean, if you've got like only one site running, maybe doesn't worth the hassle. |
| 07:38.52 | weedloser | well, most lunix software is in ports, if that's what you want flatpak for |
| 07:39.05 | annadane | nah |
| 07:39.15 | weedloser | ah ok |
| 07:39.31 | J_C | NetEcho: zamuro: I like to think channels like these are friendly because they aren't so cranky from having their distro fail on them all the time :P |
| 07:39.47 | weedloser | J_C: nice one |
| 07:40.18 | zamuro | J_C: And this whole "linux guru" or "distro fundamentalist" thingie have been diluting over the years. |
| 07:40.22 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: there are scripts to enable/disable particular sites and modules. but in the end they do nothing more than creating and removing the symlinks to the files in ./conf-available/ and ./sites-available/, just convenience |
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| 07:40.34 | NetEcho | weedloser: side note I decided to run through the install again just to see if the firmware issue continues and if I go graphical install the resolution is messed up but if I go Expert Graphical install all of a sudden the proper resolution is being used so I'm wondering if this time around it'll install the proper firmware |
| 07:40.46 | Lady_Aleena | I just remember the culture shock of not having a httpd.conf file after using apache on Windows. |
| 07:40.49 | J_C | zamuro: agreed! |
| 07:40.59 | annadane | what does openbsd do with firmware, anyway? does it just get autoloaded for everything that needs it? |
| 07:41.01 | NetEcho | J_C: ROFLMAO |
| 07:41.09 | weedloser | NetEcho: ????? |
| 07:41.13 | weedloser | ahhahaha |
| 07:41.42 | weedloser | annadane: yes https://man.openbsd.org/fw_update |
| 07:41.49 | NetEcho | weedloser: my issue from earlier |
| 07:41.50 | Lady_Aleena | If I remember correctly, Debian broke the apache configs up for some reason. |
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| 07:41.57 | NetEcho | you helped me with the firmware stuff heh |
| 07:42.02 | weedloser | NetEcho: yes, i know |
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| 07:42.12 | weedloser | that's weird xd |
| 07:42.20 | zamuro | On the other hand, It's like the first time in years I see three conversations going on parallel here |
| 07:42.23 | NetEcho | it's looking like expert install is going to have it working first shot |
| 07:42.45 | weedloser | it should be the other way around |
| 07:42.47 | NetEcho | hmm should I enable backports out of the gate or wait until I hit a situation where I need it? |
| 07:42.54 | annadane | latter |
| 07:43.08 | weedloser | buster backports doesn't have anything juicy yet, i think |
| 07:43.20 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: if you wabt to get into it, you could create a new .conf *somewhere* and start apache from a shell telling it to use it. usually it should throw errors first which you could fix one by one. i'd go for /usr/local (as root, port 80 or 88 or whatever) or in $HOME if you'd use 8000 or something. read the error, understand what it means, fix it, give it a new try. iirc in the end you should have a workable basic configuration in the end. |
| 07:43.38 | weedloser | engages shiny new shit :tm: |
| 07:43.53 | NetEcho | fair enough and yea weedloser you'd assume the inverse would be the logical choice heh |
| 07:44.20 | NetEcho | could be a bug on the nonfree version of the netinst ced |
| 07:44.22 | NetEcho | *cd |
| 07:44.32 | weedloser | upstream devs are always mad about debian but yet we're the ones that has a reliable system |
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| 07:44.41 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, I would have to understand ports and stuff, right? Right now I haven't a clue about them. |
| 07:44.42 | weedloser | code monkys should not be trusted. |
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| 07:45.04 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: i can imagine the reason, and i'm fine with it. keep things sorted, keep its flexibility in an easy way. better having an Include line you just could comment out than the need to remove 50 lines. and having a huge config file with everything new thrown in at the end. |
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| 07:47.04 | annadane | this is the most fun day #debian has had in years. :P |
| 07:47.08 | annadane | hooray for 3 am offtopic |
| 07:47.31 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, I sort of keep my stuff in the middle of it. I could show you if you want me to do things right (according to Debian). |
| 07:47.31 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: an service is found at a combination of host and port (actually interface and port, you can have a couple of network cards in your pc). and you only can have ONE server listening to each combination of interface and port. so you could have apache on :80 and nginx on :8080, maybe some selfcontained wiki at :8000. |
| 07:47.41 | ZaZaGX | i think my debian is software store is broken |
| 07:47.51 | J_C | weedloser: when the new packages get rolling in sid and later in testing, we may see some people willing to make the juicier back ports :p |
| 07:48.25 | weedloser | runs testing on this machine |
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| 07:48.37 | NetEcho | weedloser: mad about debian how? |
| 07:48.38 | weedloser | legend says testing is more stable than other distro point releases |
| 07:48.47 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: and privileged, everything up to 1024 is only usable by root. it guarantees that those ports are not used by users. so server:80 is always the official webserver, while server:8000 *may* be from one of the users. |
| 07:48.48 | weedloser | NetEcho: old software hurr durr |
| 07:49.11 | weedloser | remember when the xscreensaver guy had a blog post tantrum? |
| 07:49.11 | NetEcho | weedloser: oh yea makes sense |
| 07:49.18 | ZaZaGX | i always wanted Mac |
| 07:49.20 | ZaZaGX | a* |
| 07:49.24 | weedloser | and a few deadrat gnome people at ubuntu? |
| 07:49.31 | nvz | ZaZaGX: I'm sorry to hear that |
| 07:49.40 | weedloser | _code_monkys_should_not_be_trusted |
| 07:49.44 | ZaZaGX | but i can' t afford 500 more dollars for the brand name |
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| 07:49.56 | J_C | weedloser: i want to see this xscreensaver tantum post |
| 07:50.03 | J_C | tantrum* |
| 07:50.39 | weedloser | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=819703#158 |
| 07:50.40 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/819703 in xscreensaver (closed, patch): «xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message»; severity: important; opened: 2016-04-01; last modified: 2017-01-29. |
| 07:50.46 | weedloser | ahahahaha |
| 07:50.48 | NetEcho | Side note, KDE and GNOME run like crap on this laptop and I really don't like either. Gonna definitely install Xfce and LXDE and I'm wondering if MATE would be a good choice since it's Gnome 2 based but not sure if it's fairly heavy |
| 07:51.03 | weedloser | https://www.jwz.org/blog/2016/04/i-would-like-debian-to-stop-shipping-xscreensaver/ |
| 07:51.19 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, um, that just went right over my head. |
| 07:51.34 | weedloser | NetEcho: I use debian stable and mate on a laptop, works great |
| 07:51.38 | weedloser | but would recommend xfce |
| 07:52.00 | weedloser | mate is a little less configurable, but on the other hand is all nice and consistent by default |
| 07:52.08 | annadane | xfce's the swiss army knife of everything, love it |
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| 07:52.28 | weedloser | 4.12 hasn't aged well though |
| 07:52.28 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: keep calm and have a nice cup of tea :) |
| 07:52.35 | annadane | meh. |
| 07:52.41 | NetEcho | weedloser: I plan on installing a few to play with, So avoiding GNOME, KDE Plasma and I'm assuming Cinnamon since it's GNOME 3 based as well |
| 07:52.59 | weedloser | indeed |
| 07:53.26 | NetEcho | never thought I'd miss the old school KDE |
| 07:53.29 | weedloser | the best would be dwm or cwm :D but if the lust for bloat is too strong, xfce or mate i really like |
| 07:53.36 | J_C | NetEcho: I'm using KDE plasma right now. Works great. But if XFCE 4.14 ends up in the backports repo, I'll probably jump to that |
| 07:53.41 | NetEcho | once upon a time it was Damn KDE is too bloated I'll just use gnome lol. |
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| 07:53.51 | weedloser | KDE plasma is actually quite solid, except for being quite bloated |
| 07:53.57 | weedloser | most of it actually works :D |
| 07:54.05 | NetEcho | J_C I don't care for plasma and it runs like a snail on my laptop lol |
| 07:54.08 | weedloser | not suited for laptops though |
| 07:54.15 | NetEcho | ^ |
| 07:54.16 | weedloser | better on workstations |
| 07:54.21 | annadane | i want to set a shortcut in my shiny KDE plasma... global shortcuts... custom shortcuts... standard shortc... HELP |
| 07:54.25 | NetEcho | yea on my desktop it'd probably be fine |
| 07:54.27 | J_C | weedloser: I'm running it on my laptop though! it works great! :( |
| 07:54.36 | annadane | (no, not an actual question. just dramatizing actual scenarios i've gone through) |
| 07:54.43 | NetEcho | J_C what graphics chipset? |
| 07:54.45 | weedloser | wobbly windoooowwwz |
| 07:54.59 | J_C | NetEcho: Intel HD Graphics 620 |
| 07:55.01 | weedloser | J_C: wrong! /s |
| 07:55.07 | annadane | it takes my computer > 30 seconds to start it, so beyond any other reasons... nope, sorry. |
| 07:55.25 | weedloser | ahahahhaha |
| 07:55.27 | NetEcho | J_C I'm guessing that probably beats my 2013/2014 era Radeon R4/R5 chipset |
| 07:55.36 | weedloser | systemd-analyze thinks my system boots in 33 seconds |
| 07:55.43 | weedloser | more like under 10 |
| 07:55.46 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: i once imagined that as a block of office buildings with numbered rooms in them. each host is a building, depending on the desired service you have to enter the proper room. web stuff? please go to room 80, if you need safety, go to 443. alternatively you may go to room 8080, if 80 is busy. |
| 07:55.47 | J_C | NetEcho: okay yeah, now I'd see why ^^" |
| 07:55.53 | weedloser | 22.611s (firmware) |
| 07:55.56 | weedloser | ??? |
| 07:56.16 | NetEcho | J_C yeah this laptop has been sitting in a corner for years so I decided it'd be the perfect thing for me to dick around with linux on |
| 07:56.24 | weedloser | 5 seconds in loader (grub delay) 2 in kernel, 2 usespace |
| 07:56.28 | weedloser | pretty quick goddamn. |
| 07:56.43 | weedloser | debian is supercharged |
| 07:56.50 | annadane | even xfce takes longer than it should, it's possible my hardware is just crap. but i've also abused it a lot |
| 07:56.51 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, right now I would love to have someone look over my apache2.conf and tell me if I should do something different. |
| 07:56.53 | NetEcho | Truth be told I only bought this piece of junk for $200 right before a work trip because I didn't want to bring the bulky ass piece of junk work laptop with me lol |
| 07:57.11 | J_C | NetEcho: in this case, I agree, plasma may not be suited for it. Best stick to the lightweight stuff / stuff that is better suited for the other hardware |
| 07:57.51 | J_C | weedloser: also, that mailing list with the xscreensaver author is... interesting. |
| 07:58.05 | NetEcho | so did xscreensaver ever get updated? lol |
| 07:58.24 | weedloser | hopefully not :D |
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| 07:58.35 | annadane | Package: xscreensaver |
| 07:58.36 | annadane | Version: 5.42+dfsg1-1 |
| 07:58.41 | weedloser | :P |
| 07:58.45 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: what about some Etherpad session? collaborative live editing in the browser :) |
| 07:58.46 | NetEcho | hahaha |
| 07:58.47 | J_C | is it one of those situations where software authors try to take a leaf out of torvalds' book and think that cursing people out makes them seem cool and like they want results? :P |
| 07:59.00 | annadane | 5.43 is upstream |
| 07:59.04 | annadane | so in buster, yes |
| 07:59.06 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, I've never heard of Etherpad before. |
| 07:59.17 | NetEcho | oh 5.43 is current damn |
| 07:59.25 | NetEcho | that'd be a pretty funny troll |
| 07:59.44 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena, one of the few web2 thingies i really like > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etherpad |
| 08:00.35 | annadane | debian does also have NMUs, so y'know... :P |
| 08:00.39 | J_C | every time a patch is backported to xscreensaver, JWZ cries out in frustration |
| 08:01.35 | NetEcho | out of curiosity why backport the patch instead of just updating the application? |
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| 08:02.08 | Lady_Aleena | Eeps, I somehow closed Hexchat by accident. |
| 08:02.20 | EdePopede | [Replay] Lady_Aleena, one of the few web2 thingies i really like > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etherpad |
| 08:02.24 | annadane | you've missed SO MUCH CONVERSATION. |
| 08:02.34 | annadane | i really need to go to bed. |
| 08:02.43 | NetEcho | 3 whole lines of it lol |
| 08:02.52 | Lady_Aleena | annadane, I was just gone a moment. *rolls her eyes* |
| 08:03.03 | NetEcho | night annadane |
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| 08:03.21 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, so Etherpad isn't something that is strictly on the net through a web site, I would have to install something. |
| 08:03.52 | annadane | NOTE: some distros, notably Debian, distribute a version of XScreenSaver that is years out of date. This is bad and they should feel bad. You should use distros that give you the option of keeping your software up to date, and that understand that "stable" and "ancient" are not the same thing. |
| 08:03.52 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: a web browser with javascript, yes ;) |
| 08:03.57 | annadane | from xscreensaver's website |
| 08:04.17 | NetEcho | lol |
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| 08:04.36 | annadane | i mean i understand it both ways. people don't *want* to update software for much the same functionality as before... |
| 08:04.40 | Lady_Aleena | I'm looking at etherpad.org |
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| 08:05.06 | NetEcho | I get not updating Xscreensaver much but why that long? You'd think every major release cycle of Debian would bring it closer to being up to date |
| 08:05.30 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, do you have an etherpad instance? |
| 08:05.32 | annadane | at worst it can surely be backported, lol. not like there's a lot to it |
| 08:05.42 | annadane | we do have backports, you know? it's not all 2 year old software |
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| 08:06.04 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena: you'd just have to download it if you'd want to host it yourself. and no, i don't even have webspace (not even locally atm :D) |
| 08:06.09 | NetEcho | yea it's strange that it got that far out of hand lol |
| 08:06.19 | NetEcho | I understand some apps being a year or two out of date |
| 08:06.19 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, neither do I. |
| 08:07.01 | EdePopede | gah. "502 Bad Gateway". that's what i like most on nginx :/ |
| 08:07.25 | NetEcho | God the other day I was using rsync to offload files from my media server to a qnap that was given to me... even though the last update was only like a month ago to it Rsync on the qnap is 10 years out of date lol. |
| 08:07.59 | annadane | vlc updates in stable when upstream updates |
| 08:08.04 | annadane | one of the few exceptions |
| 08:08.33 | NetEcho | next time my old boss goes to retire his qnap for a newer one I'm going to give him crap and tell him to let me build him a nas box lol |
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| 08:11.06 | EdePopede | Lady_Aleena, there are tons of public instances. how about this one? https://etherpad.net/p/7JpndISOJI (only keep in mind not to post your passwords and the link to your photo gallery ;)) |
| 08:12.09 | Lady_Aleena | EdePopede, I'm getting scattered. |
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| 08:12.56 | ZaZaGX | ahoy |
| 08:13.00 | annadane | https://cfenollosa.com/blog/openbsd-from-a-veteran-linux-user-perspective.html this is cool |
| 08:13.19 | EdePopede | no hectic, there's no deadline :) |
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| 08:20.03 | ZaZaGX | dang |
| 08:20.54 | ZaZaGX | i'm not sure how to get my rasberry pi 3 B to run debian |
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| 08:21.09 | annadane | probably need an ARM image |
| 08:21.17 | annadane | but that's as far as my help goes, i need sleep |
| 08:22.21 | ZaZaGX | i'm downloading it right now |
| 08:22.47 | ZaZaGX | not sure if i need a wifi driver |
| 08:23.17 | NetEcho | annadane: hah the part about having to reboot into windows, look up the solution and try again brings back some fond memories |
| 08:27.24 | ZaZaGX | hmm, which desktop envoirment should i use? |
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| 08:29.15 | NetEcho | ZaZaGX: what kind of hardware? |
| 08:29.39 | at0m | ZaZaGX: if you need to ask, why not just #raspbian and make it easy on yourself |
| 08:29.49 | at0m | tht's all prep'd for rpi |
| 08:29.51 | NetEcho | oh derr |
| 08:29.57 | NetEcho | I missed the pi |
| 08:30.07 | NetEcho | yea raspbian will run best on your pi |
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| 08:30.26 | at0m | on top, it's all debian except for some rpi mods and tools |
| 08:30.30 | ZaZaGX | i'm downloading debian arm64 |
| 08:30.57 | at0m | ZaZaGX: if i were you, i'd do some research. cos that's not gonna work. |
| 08:31.11 | NetEcho | ZaZaGX: like at0m said raspbian is pretty much pure Debian just with all the mods to work on the Pi |
| 08:31.17 | ZaZaGX | oh crap, maybe i need armhf |
| 08:31.48 | at0m | ZaZaGX: still not going to work, not out of the box. rpi has a specific way to boot from gpu which then loads cpu |
| 08:32.00 | at0m | and needs dedi firmware for that etc |
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| 08:32.17 | ZaZaGX | hmmm |
| 08:32.27 | NetEcho | is waiting for a new revision of the rpi 4 so he can do a retropi setup |
| 08:32.39 | at0m | ZaZaGX: maybe in upcoming kernel 5.? there will be support for rpi, but not for now |
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| 08:32.57 | at0m | ZaZaGX: hence, #raspbian |
| 08:33.24 | jerry_ | Yes raspbian |
| 08:33.52 | at0m | you can add debian repo's to that, it'll use armhf indeed |
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| 08:35.43 | jerry_ | Yes ive done that before, but u hv to be careful. Is debian broken in regsrd to ipv4? |
| 08:36.14 | ZaZaGX | geez |
| 08:36.31 | ZaZaGX | i guess i'll use raspbian |
| 08:37.25 | NetEcho | well poop expert mode also didn't install the nonfree firmwares heh well at least it did for the wifi so I can apt-get them |
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| 08:38.19 | ZaZaGX | i am using kali linux on armhf on the raspberry pi |
| 08:38.28 | jerry_ | I need to use amd64, but some sites i use seem to use ipv4 only, including android studio update |
| 08:38.52 | NetEcho | jerry_: what does the cpu architecture have to do with a networking protocol? |
| 08:39.46 | jerry_ | Well according to Android development you need a 64-bit operating system which seems weird to me since it's a Java app but that's what it says |
| 08:40.30 | jerry_ | And I'd like to update my Android Studio and I won't update and also I can't reach certain other sites that seem to be ipv4 |
| 08:40.57 | NetEcho | jerry_: in this day and age most OS's are going to be 64bit unless you're running very old hardware there is no reason to use 32bit |
| 08:40.59 | jerry_ | Which would indicate that not working a sort of broken at least as far as ipv4 goes |
| 08:41.34 | jerry_ | I was just pointing out to my Raspberry Pi which is a 32-bit can connect to both ipv4 and IPv6 and yet I Debian buster doesn't connect to ipv4 |
| 08:41.52 | NetEcho | my buster install is on ipv4 |
| 08:42.15 | NetEcho | you probably have to configure it to use ipv4 |
| 08:42.43 | jerry_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:42.44 | NetEcho | somehow it's also got an ipv6 address even though my modem is set to ipv4 only... weird |
| 08:43.18 | NetEcho | jerry_: do ifconfig and see if it has an ipv4 address assigned |
| 08:43.42 | jerry_ | Be right back |
| 08:44.33 | jerry_ | As I recall it did have ipv4 addresses assigned to active interfaces but I'm booting up right now to check |
| 08:45.00 | ensamvarg | Greet you fine, #Debian channel. |
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| 08:48.54 | jerry_ | Netecho, does have both ipv4 and 6 addresses |
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| 08:50.12 | jerry_ | 2:48 AM <jerry_> NetEcho, does have both ipv4 and 6 addresses |
| 08:50.41 | jelly | jerry_: no, buster is not broken for ipv4. Pastebin the output of "ip a" and "ip r" and "ip -6 r" |
| 08:51.22 | NetEcho | jerry_: jelly is probably going to be more help than I on this |
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| 08:53.14 | jerry_ | Ok I've been IRC on my phone I want to go ahead and bring up the IRC on my laptop and so I am going to disconnect and come right back |
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| 09:05.54 | NetEcho | can someone point me in the right direction to get the function keys I.e. vol up/down and brightness working? |
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| 09:19.28 | diogenes_ | NetEcho, what DE? |
| 09:19.52 | kirk781 | jerry_, welcome back :p |
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| 09:27.50 | agris | How can I blacklist and NOT use the Debian fastly mirrors? |
| 09:27.53 | agris | in apt |
| 09:28.16 | kirk781 | You have to comment them out in the sources file |
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| 09:29.01 | agris | kirk781, I can't, it's done via an HTTP redirect to deb.debian.org |
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| 09:29.35 | agris | and deb.debian.org is a dns-roundrobin with fastly in there |
| 09:30.00 | agris | and fastly.com is severely throttling debian package mirrors |
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| 09:30.14 | agris | down to less than 30 kb/s |
| 09:30.21 | agris | over both IPv4 and IPv6 |
| 09:33.05 | agris | after looking at packet traces I finally found this out |
| 09:33.27 | agris | has anyone else noticed the deb downloads coming from fastly are throttled to dialup speeds? |
| 09:34.58 | agris | I have been waiting to download libmariadb sources for the past hour and a half |
| 09:35.51 | Habbie | agris, you don't have to use deb.debian.org |
| 09:35.57 | Habbie | agris, i have 'ftp.fr.debian.org' in my sources.list, for example |
| 09:36.36 | agris | 22 kB/s |
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| 09:37.14 | agris | Habbie, is there a way to override that? |
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| 09:37.37 | Habbie | agris, yes, editing sources.list |
| 09:37.39 | agris | I'm using Devuan merged repos, which temporary redirect for debian packages to deb.debian.org |
| 09:38.05 | at0m | agris: override to use your own regional mirrors in sources.list like Habbie suggested |
| 09:38.22 | Habbie | agris, oh, that's a different question |
| 09:38.53 | Habbie | perhaps /etc/hosts |
| 09:38.56 | Habbie | or some deeper apt config magic |
| 09:38.57 | Habbie | i dunno |
| 09:39.02 | agris | the only thing I could think of would be to overide deb.debian.org with the host sfile, but is there a cleaner way to do that? |
| 09:42.03 | Habbie | agris, apt has various proxy settings, maybe one of those can do it |
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| 09:45.34 | dak | agris: you do it in your sources.list dude dont go puttin that shit in your /etc/hosts |
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| 09:45.49 | dak | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:46.36 | dak | drowz come on efnet in mc |
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| 09:48.42 | agris | APT does not seem to respect /etc/hosts |
| 09:48.51 | agris | despite ping respecting /etc/hosts as a test |
| 09:49.15 | agris | Habbie, are you saying I would need to setup a squid proxy? |
| 09:49.30 | agris | dak, I don't understand |
| 09:50.41 | Habbie | agris, i'm not saying that, but i expect it would be one valid approach |
| 09:50.44 | dak | agris: to change the hosts that apt uses you need to edit the /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 09:51.08 | Habbie | dak, agris is not running debian, and the reference to deb.debian.org is a redirect in a mirror they are using |
| 09:51.30 | dak | yah deb.debian.org is just a redirect |
| 09:51.54 | dak | what are you using agris |
| 09:51.55 | Habbie | that was not the point |
| 09:52.10 | Habbie | 09:37Z <agris> I'm using Devuan merged repos, which temporary redirect for debian packages to deb.debian.org |
| 09:52.19 | dak | hrm |
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| 09:53.27 | dak | someone has to haev figured this out already, google is better then this place for those kinds of more known issues |
| 09:53.37 | dak | watch ill find it |
| 09:53.39 | dak | 1 sec |
| 09:54.30 | dak | https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list |
| 09:54.45 | dak | is he on 2.0? i havent used devuan in a while |
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| 09:55.11 | dak | you could try pinnin tuff |
| 09:55.53 | Chaekyung | if anyone's bored, pm spam me debian related links. thanks. |
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| 09:56.50 | ZaZaGX | ... that is so random |
| 09:57.11 | coruja | agris, what are you actually trying to achieve? move from devuan to debian? have a mixture of both running? |
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| 09:58.35 | at0m | coruja: seems devuan redirects some to deb.debian.org which then redirects to fastly.com and < agris> down to less than 30 kb/s |
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| 09:59.52 | at0m | i'll try not to suggest #devuan for support on them. |
| 09:59.54 | at0m | too late. |
| 10:00.24 | coruja | at0m, i try to grasp the plan behind |
| 10:01.12 | coruja | if move from devuan to debian, i would suggest a clean install - if have a mixture of both, i would wish good luck |
| 10:01.13 | agris | coruja, download the source of libmariadbclient18 |
| 10:01.16 | at0m | coruja: iiuc, agris intends to remain on devuan, but sources.list there redirects some to deb.debian.org |
| 10:01.30 | agris | at this point I started firewalling all of fasly's ip ranges |
| 10:01.43 | at0m | ..which then redirects to fastly which is slow for them |
| 10:02.16 | coruja | so that's rather a devuan problem i guess, and a network problem on top of it too |
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| 10:02.31 | agris | at this point I'm beginning to think it could be the useragent? |
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| 10:03.21 | agris | it just doesn't make any sense. I can connect to osuosl just fine, but when apt tries to download from the osuosl mirror it takes 9 hours to download 65mb |
| 10:03.45 | agris | and I've got a Gentoo system that downloads from osuosl's gentoo mirror as well |
| 10:03.50 | agris | no problems |
| 10:03.51 | coruja | agris, if it's only for the source of one package, you may download it from the internet (at least just for troubleshooting purposes) |
| 10:04.12 | at0m | packages.debian.org ^ |
| 10:04.16 | agris | coruja, I could just do that, but this is not the first time I've had this issue |
| 10:04.43 | agris | I'm determined to go to the bottom of it |
| 10:04.59 | coruja | agris, so in the end it's a devuan system, so i can't see how we could really help here |
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| 10:05.50 | elm_ | I have installed grub on usb stick |
| 10:05.53 | coruja | maybe someone with devuan experience may step in, else i guess devuan support is the better place to ask |
| 10:06.05 | elm_ | but when I try to boot it complains that it cannot find isolinux.bin |
| 10:06.16 | elm_ | package isolinux has been installed in the host system |
| 10:06.28 | elm_ | but where to move isolinux.bin onto usbstick? |
| 10:06.32 | alkisg | agris: apt has a -o dpkg::show-http-headers option (I typed it wrong, google the exact name), which will tell you all the redirects it does, and the final url where it downloads the .deb from; if you get that final url and try wget, is it still slow? |
| 10:06.40 | elm_ | or how to tell grub about the location of the file |
| 10:07.04 | alkisg | elm_: grub doesn't use isolinux; how did you install grub? |
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| 10:08.13 | agris | wait a second |
| 10:08.29 | agris | this might just be a very exotic network driver issue |
| 10:09.02 | agris | but then again |
| 10:09.24 | agris | ok so i plugged in wired to a router and no longer getting massive TCP retrans |
| 10:09.37 | agris | but at the same time, I've had this issue on hardware servers |
| 10:10.00 | agris | but if i'm using IPv6 my public address changes depending on the NIC I use |
| 10:10.12 | elm_ | grub-install --recheck --root-directory /data /dev/sdh |
| 10:10.25 | elm_ | grub asks for the file as soon as I use chainloader |
| 10:10.35 | agris | I really appreciate your people's help with this |
| 10:10.44 | agris | but I think I need to look into this even more |
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| 10:11.55 | alkisg | elm_: chainloader for what? |
| 10:12.23 | elm_ | chainloader (hd0,1)+1 |
| 10:12.25 | elm_ | boot |
| 10:12.39 | elm_ | grub is installed on (hd0,1) |
| 10:12.49 | elm_ | ahh mean chainloader (hd0,0)+1 |
| 10:12.59 | elm_ | iso is in partition 0 |
| 10:13.06 | elm_ | data + grub is in partition 1 |
| 10:13.24 | alkisg | checks above to see if elm_ has mentioned any isos... |
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| 10:13.45 | alkisg | elm_: are you trying to boot an .iso from grub? |
| 10:14.33 | elm_ | yes |
| 10:14.36 | elm_ | that should work |
| 10:14.44 | alkisg | What kind of .iso? Each one need different commands |
| 10:14.52 | elm_ | otherwise grub would not complain for the missing isolinux.bin |
| 10:15.05 | elm_ | debian live iso |
| 10:15.23 | elm_ | I simply want to chainload it without mounting and kernel references |
| 10:15.34 | elm_ | chainloading is the best way to do that |
| 10:15.44 | elm_ | since the kernel and initrd file may change |
| 10:15.46 | alkisg | This isn't possible; it only would be possible if debian live was using int10 to access the cd, which it doesn't |
| 10:15.50 | alkisg | But |
| 10:16.00 | alkisg | You may use loopback to read the kernel/initrd from inside the .iso |
| 10:16.09 | alkisg | So that you don't have to extract them, grub will do that |
| 10:16.18 | alkisg | *int16, sorry |
| 10:16.21 | elm_ | do not need loopback |
| 10:16.31 | elm_ | the iso was dd-ed into hd(0,0) |
| 10:16.54 | alkisg | To a partition or a disk? |
| 10:17.01 | elm_ | to a partition |
| 10:17.09 | elm_ | it works without grub for the disk |
| 10:17.12 | alkisg | Yup, I don't think that's possible |
| 10:17.18 | elm_ | it is |
| 10:17.43 | alkisg | So you have 2 MBRs, one inside the other? How would BIOS know about that? |
| 10:18.00 | alkisg | Linux and grub can do it, sure; but how would bios do it? |
| 10:18.28 | elm_ | BIOS does it only when it is dd-ed to the whole disk i.e. /dev/sdi |
| 10:18.33 | elm_ | and that works of course |
| 10:18.40 | elm_ | otherwise grub has to do it |
| 10:18.41 | alkisg | Right; and chainloader means use bios |
| 10:20.34 | alkisg | elm_: it's about the same as people coming here and saying "I used dd to write a stick to /dev/sdb1, why doesn't that work?" and we tell them "dd to sdb, not sdb1" |
| 10:20.48 | alkisg | Even if you put grub to sdb1, the stick still won't load |
| 10:20.50 | elm_ | we can look whether it works |
| 10:21.01 | elm_ | but first we need to make grub chainload that partition |
| 10:21.06 | alkisg | Sure; I'm not 100% sure I'm right, but to the best of my knowledge, this won't work |
| 10:21.15 | elm_ | I am not asking for more than make grub chainload a specific partition |
| 10:21.18 | elm_ | so please help |
| 10:21.23 | alkisg | I think it does chainload it |
| 10:21.30 | alkisg | And then isolinux asks bios to fetch a sector |
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| 10:21.37 | alkisg | And it can't; so it can't find isolinux.bin |
| 10:22.03 | alkisg | I.e. you do manage to boot the iso first sector with grub; but then that code can't find the rest of the cd |
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| 10:23.03 | ZaZaGX | elm_, why don't you use a usb flash drive instead? |
| 10:23.19 | elm_ | what is a usb flash drive |
| 10:23.27 | alkisg | It's possible to use a disk, or partition, or file, or whatever, as long as you use loopback in grub, not chainloader |
| 10:23.52 | elm_ | I have found the following: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2011-08/msg00020.html |
| 10:24.04 | elm_ | how to make that if it is a partition rather than a file |
| 10:24.47 | alkisg | Get a console prompt in grub, and type: loopback loop (hd0,0); ls / |
| 10:24.52 | elm_ | if it is possible with a loopback device it should directly be possible with a (hd0,0) device as well; won´t it? |
| 10:24.54 | alkisg | And see what's the exact syntax |
| 10:25.03 | ZaZaGX | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_flash_drive |
| 10:25.23 | alkisg | loopback means that grub reads that file system itself, so it can do anything, partitions, files, fat, ext, ntfs, whatever |
| 10:25.41 | alkisg | But then you need to use linux/initrd/and the correct kernel cmdline |
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| 10:27.33 | elm_ | by the way what is the password to unlock the screen in debian live? |
| 10:28.09 | HyP3r | I recently upgraded my home server to Debian 10. Since then the server goes into standby every day and I don't know why. What could be the reason? |
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| 10:29.27 | HyP3r | In the log it looks like this: https://dpaste.de/qTUw |
| 10:31.10 | pasiz | HyP3r: seems you have power saving configured. I think you have graphical desktop installed on your server |
| 10:31.18 | elm_ | I am getting confused: is the first partition (hd0,1) or (hd0,0)? |
| 10:31.39 | HyP3r | pasiz: yeah I have installed the graphical desktop installed, I needed it for some systems |
| 10:31.51 | pasiz | HyP3r: so configure your suspend off there |
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| 10:33.03 | HyP3r | pasiz: ok. But where? |
| 10:33.12 | ZaZaGX | elm_, its easier just to make a debian iso onto a usb flash drive and install debian on your machine |
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| 10:33.49 | pasiz | HyP3r: depends what desktop you run |
| 10:34.34 | pasiz | if gnome, go to control center and power tab |
| 10:34.35 | HyP3r | pasiz: I use X2go as client and gnome as desktop |
| 10:35.15 | HyP3r | Under Settings -> Energy -> I have only "Switch off Screen after... 5 Minutes" |
| 10:35.42 | pasiz | do you have upper right corner small menu? |
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| 10:36.18 | HyP3r | yes I have there network, audio and language settings and my username where I can click to restart, shutdown, ... (and go to settings) |
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| 10:37.03 | coruja | https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/power-autosuspend.html.en |
| 10:37.28 | HyP3r | Look at that: https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1AFYOusfBkWDpjvKqBALYnhgPyXekIVgB |
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| 10:38.29 | pasiz | HyP3r: okay, you are running gnome 2, that doesn't be default on debian 10 |
| 10:38.35 | pasiz | i think you have gnome 3 |
| 10:38.38 | elm_ | no installing debian is no option |
| 10:38.53 | elm_ | I want an exchangeable iso file and a data partition |
| 10:38.53 | HyP3r | pasiz: ok I'll try to start gnome 3 sorry |
| 10:39.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1492] by debhelper |
| 10:40.01 | pasiz | HyP3r: gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power sleep-inactive-ac-timeout 0 |
| 10:40.26 | HyP3r | pasiz: I allready found this way to set the configuraion: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2401396&p=13802159#post13802159 |
| 10:40.37 | HyP3r | And I ran this command this morning, but didn't helped |
| 10:40.42 | HyP3r | I guess I have to restart? |
| 10:41.01 | elm_ | can I define another root device with grub for the kernel? |
| 10:41.11 | elm_ | root (hd0,1) does not work with grub2 |
| 10:41.22 | pasiz | or see is there other mechanisms that put to sleep. I think gdm have also one. |
| 10:41.27 | elm_ | I can simply boot the kernel and initrd from files in (hd0,1) |
| 10:41.44 | elm_ | or perhaps something like append root=/dev/sda1 |
| 10:42.25 | alkisg | elm_: this depends on the initramfs code, in this case the debian live code; I think the correct syntax there is "fromiso=" |
| 10:42.40 | pasiz | HyP3r: $ sudo -u gdm dbus-launch gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power sleep-inactive-ac-type 'nothing' |
| 10:42.51 | alkisg | This tells debian live where to find the iso, mount it, and then search for /live/filesystem.squashfs inside it, and mount THAT as root |
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| 10:43.14 | alkisg | elm_: to see the correct syntax, either google for debian live fromiso, or just boot the iso and cat /proc/cmdline |
| 10:43.24 | elm_ | alkisg: how to set that parameter from the grub command line? |
| 10:43.41 | alkisg | elm_: it goes in: linux vmlinuz params here |
| 10:44.09 | alkisg | elm_: e.g. for Ubuntu I use: linux "(loop)/casper/$kernel" "file=/cdrom/preseed/$uname.seed" boot=casper "iso-scan/filename=$liveusb/ubuntu/$iname" noeject noprompt -- $extra_params; then |
| 10:44.13 | diogenes_ | this is the params i use to boot debian live in multiboot usb: linux (loop)/live/vmlinuz-4.19.0-5-amd64 boot=live findiso=$isofile noprompt noeject noswap config quiet splash |
| 10:44.26 | HyP3r | pasiz: ok I also set this (but I had to use Debian-gdm as suser) and I restarted gdm by "systemctl restart gdm.service" |
| 10:44.31 | HyP3r | pasiz: hopefully it helps |
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| 10:44.55 | pasiz | HyP3r: without furher searching, your only hope is wait and see |
| 10:45.03 | HyP3r | yeah |
| 10:45.16 | HyP3r | I also did 'sudo -u Debian-gdm dbus-launch gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power sleep-inactive-ac-timeout 0' |
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| 11:08.51 | ZaZaGX | hi |
| 11:09.30 | pasiz | hi |
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| 11:12.16 | ZaZaGX | !ping |
| 11:12.16 | dpkg | pong |
| 11:12.16 | toxync12 | [toxync@tox] pong! on #debian |
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| 11:23.11 | agris | I think i've narrowed down the packet loss |
| 11:23.29 | ZaZaGX | oh what is? |
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| 11:24.10 | N0Lif3 | howdy |
| 11:24.16 | ZaZaGX | hi |
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| 11:31.49 | ZaZaGX | whoa |
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| 12:08.38 | elm_ | specifying finiso does not seem to work |
| 12:09.04 | elm_ | I have specified findiso=/dev/sdf1 which is the right drive as found out inside initrd |
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| 12:11.48 | elm_ | alkisg: can you help? |
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| 12:14.02 | no_gravity | How do I bind something to ALT++ (alt plus the plus key)? |
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| 12:23.22 | bigterd | Debian 10, installed the old net tools, but oddly some network commands (depreciated or not) need explicit paths defined... Wtf? |
| 12:23.51 | bigterd | Routef doesn't need path, but route does? Weird? |
| 12:24.21 | BCMM | bigterd: are you just talking about /usr/sbin/ not being in the default $PATH for normal users? |
| 12:24.45 | BCMM | bigterd: or is this perhaps a root shell, and the problem is that su's behaviour has changed in Buster? |
| 12:26.10 | bigterd | Ive been only using su, never straight root login. Fresh install and getting the box setup. Been difficult. My most frustrating headache is setup the networking/routing, as all what I've used is now depreciated! |
| 12:26.41 | bigterd | Its never on the internet, I might just install a classic old version and just call it good. |
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| 12:27.23 | bigterd | If su behavior has changed i suppose that's possible. |
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| 12:28.13 | ayekat | su simply launches a root shell, but doesn't perform all the login procedure (like setting $PATH) - so you'll probably want `su -l` (or `sudo -i`) (or `machinectl ...`) |
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| 12:28.42 | ayekat | (although machinectl is for solving a different issue, and might be a bit overkill) |
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| 12:32.10 | ayekat | bigterd: note that `route` is part of the (rather deprecated) net-tools project, while `routef` is a wrapper around the ip-route(8) commands |
| 12:32.29 | bigterd | OK thanks ayekat |
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| 12:44.15 | twanny796 | Anyone from Falcot? |
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| 12:52.18 | Bushmills | Are you? |
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| 12:52.47 | twanny796 | Bushmills: Yes |
| 12:52.59 | Bushmills | then "yes. you" |
| 12:55.53 | twanny796 | Trying to backup my data files from my laptop to a debian server. |
| 12:56.38 | twanny796 | Then I will need to sync it. Thinking of using WinSCP? |
| 12:57.33 | Bushmills | many understand backup as "incremental" as in "not only a single copy of last state" |
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| 12:57.51 | Bushmills | with just scp, that'd require some trickery |
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| 12:59.38 | twanny796 | First I am going to sync my data files on the laptop with my account on the Debian server, then I will work on the backup from the Debian server. |
| 13:00.18 | twanny796 | As you said sycn with WinSCP is a bit trikery. |
| 13:00.24 | ayekat | you could do it with only scp and a lot of scripting, but you'd eventually just end up reimplementing rsync - poorly |
| 13:00.49 | Bushmills | then you may perhaps want to have a look at rsync, which will avoid re-transmitting unchanged files |
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| 13:02.03 | Bushmills | (though teaching that to do incremental backups needs similar effort - but it's possible) |
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| 13:03.09 | twanny796 | https://winscp.net/eng/docs/task_synchronize . I think this should explain it? |
| 13:03.15 | ayekat | just combines rsync with btrfs snapshots |
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| 13:04.15 | Bushmills | uses rsync with some hardlinks trickery |
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| 13:05.00 | diogenes_ | btrfs is very unreliable. |
| 13:07.40 | ayekat | yeah, I wouldn't go as far as recommending it to others - but for the "incremental backups" thing, it's good enough (TM) for me ^^ |
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| 13:08.12 | ayekat | (as long as there are ext4-based off-site backups, that is) |
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| 13:09.30 | diogenes_ | btrfs is can't handle outages, if the outage happens during some data writing, you can be left with a completely corrupted filesystem (happened to me once). |
| 13:09.46 | alkisg | elm_: what's the full cmdline that you're using? |
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| 13:57.09 | f8e3_ | hey |
| 13:57.50 | f8e3_ | i think my notebook got compromized while i wasnt around, what syslog should is look into, it was in hibernate state |
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| 14:04.45 | Bushmills | f8e3_: if it's compromised, you can't trust any logs |
| 14:05.31 | Bushmills | (Unless remote logging to write-only medium) |
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| 14:13.39 | f8e3_ | good to know, ill throw it away |
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| 14:19.42 | Bushmills | Meaning append-only or write-once |
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| 14:23.43 | Imtng | is anyone here? |
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| 14:24.37 | Bushmills | Are you? |
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| 14:25.15 | Imtng | i thought i was the only one here @@ |
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| 14:49.14 | catman | how can i install banshee or something that can interface with an iphone on debian buster? |
| 14:49.38 | catman | it got removed from the ports or something after stretch |
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| 14:53.38 | catmans20019 | heeeeelp i need my iphone music and such on my debian |
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| 14:58.17 | dvs | catmans20019, ifuse |
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| 14:59.37 | somiaj | also don't iphones also support MTP wich there are many apps and even filemanages that do that |
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| 15:00.23 | djp_ | ok, strange question, but... is it possible to revert back to receiving a prompt for which text editor to use, like when crontab is run for the first time? i gather it writes the chosen text editor to a file some where but i have no idea where. |
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| 15:04.11 | humpled | it could be update-alternatives or dpkg-reconfigure, maybe |
| 15:04.45 | somiaj | or check the $EDITOR variable, most things respect that. |
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| 15:05.47 | somiaj | yea read the crontab manpage, it uses $VISUAL or $EDITOR enviorment variable, and none of those exist, /usr/bin/editor |
| 15:06.24 | somiaj | and /usr/bin/editor -> /etc/alternatives/editor which as humpled pointed out can be modified with update-alternatives |
| 15:06.31 | sunzero | my hard drive crashes /freezes/ ssd intel after reboot it loads slowly and shows capacity 8mb only of 120gb? |
| 15:06.33 | somiaj | but I think setting the EDITOR vairable is the way to go. |
| 15:06.40 | sunzero | how can i check it/fix it |
| 15:07.20 | rwp | /usr/bin/sensible-editor saves the selection in ~/.selected_editor as can be seen by looking at the script. |
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| 15:07.24 | sunzero | fsck or? |
| 15:09.35 | somiaj | I don't think many older tools (such as conrtab) use sensible-editor though |
| 15:09.53 | somiaj | at least the manpage for crontab doesn't mention sensible-editor |
| 15:09.57 | somiaj | (here on stretch) |
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| 15:23.13 | grobi | hello :) does someone have a thinkpad 410 and knows how to install the nvidia-driver? |
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| 15:23.26 | grobi | i'm on buster |
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| 15:26.17 | ayekat | president: what do you want to know? |
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| 15:30.40 | SwaggerArch | looking forward to trying debian testing for rolling release.. Is this version of debian a true rolling release? |
| 15:31.40 | djp_ | rwp, thanks. deleting ~/.selected_editor, does indeed return things to pre-running of crontab -e. appreciated. |
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| 15:35.37 | dvs | SwaggerArch, not really. testing can break at any time. |
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| 15:36.46 | SwaggerArch | dvs Understand! But does it have the tools like Arch Linux to find dependency problems? |
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| 15:37.19 | dvs | SwaggerArch, what? like apt-cache? apt does a pretty good job itself. |
| 15:40.51 | hitest | SwaggerArch, Debian Sid is the leading edge in Debian development. |
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| 15:41.55 | SwaggerArch | hitest thanks still wonder if they use wiki page and forums to communicate package issues? |
| 15:41.58 | *** join/#debian MySecondNick (~MySecondN@93-137-243-11.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 15:42.29 | MySecondNick | Heya guys! I just installed Debian 10 (Buster) on my new notebook and it doesn't recognize my touchpad and my wireless card |
| 15:42.39 | MySecondNick | could someone in here please guide me as to how to enable those? |
| 15:43.41 | dvs | SwaggerArch, the mailing lists would be the best way to find out |
| 15:44.11 | _Cute_Kitty_ | MySecondNick: the best way to fix that is always to google your laptop model, then Debian |
| 15:44.19 | _Cute_Kitty_ | you'll likely find other people with the same problem, solved. |
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| 15:44.30 | wr | MySecondNick, have you done any updates by now? |
| 15:44.33 | _Cute_Kitty_ | other than that you could start by giving us your laptop model so we can do that for you too |
| 15:44.34 | SwaggerArch | dvs thanks.. |
| 15:44.36 | PhotoJim | usually the wireless card issue is that you have to enable non-free firmware. and 802.11ac cards are still a problem in Linux. (I retrofitted an Intel 802.11ac card into my two laptops precisely for better Linux support.) |
| 15:44.37 | hitest | MySecondNick, sounds like you need non-free firmware. |
| 15:45.18 | MySecondNick | _Cute_Kitty_ I Googled a bit but haven't found the answers myself... could I ask you to try to do that for me, if you have the time and the will to do so? I find it hard |
| 15:45.18 | wr | MySecondNick, brand/model? |
| 15:45.40 | MySecondNick | I fixed a problem where it said "<username> is not a part of the sudoers" |
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| 15:45.58 | MySecondNick | wr _Cute_Kitty_ it is Acer A515-51G-52GM |
| 15:46.03 | _Cute_Kitty_ | thanks |
| 15:46.19 | wr | MySecondNick, basically every extra hardware you have needs non free firmware |
| 15:46.29 | MySecondNick | wr ok |
| 15:46.33 | SwaggerArch | _Cute_Kitty_ I generally use VMWare through windows 10 to avoid mouse and wifi issues |
| 15:46.39 | MySecondNick | and non-free firmware is not supplied in the Debian packages |
| 15:46.48 | MySecondNick | so that's why it doesn't recognize it |
| 15:46.59 | dvs | MySecondNick, yes it is but it is not enabled by default. |
| 15:46.59 | MySecondNick | but I haven't found Linux drivers on Acer's website |
| 15:47.10 | MySecondNick | oh |
| 15:47.15 | dvs | !non-free |
| 15:47.16 | dpkg | [non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>. |
| 15:47.41 | MySecondNick | I can post my hwinfo output in my pastebin if that would help |
| 15:47.42 | dvs | !tell MySecondNick about non-free sources |
| 15:47.55 | MySecondNick | a pastebin* |
| 15:48.15 | dvs | MySecondNick, that would help |
| 15:48.30 | wr | MySecondNick, lspci, lsusb, you need to update sources list |
| 15:48.31 | hitest | MySecondNick, I have used the ISOs here. They include non-free firmware. This may help. https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/10.0.0+nonfree/ |
| 15:49.10 | _Cute_Kitty_ | MySecondNick: just type sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list and add contrib non-free to the end of the sources |
| 15:49.16 | SwaggerArch | @wr hwinfo rocks if got installed |
| 15:49.38 | MySecondNick | _Cute_Kitty_ dvs to all of the lines? |
| 15:49.46 | MySecondNick | in that file? |
| 15:50.13 | PhotoJim | any line you see "main" on |
| 15:50.19 | PhotoJim | add " contrib non-free" to the end |
| 15:50.37 | dvs | MySecondNick, which file? |
| 15:50.58 | MySecondNick | dvs sources.list |
| 15:51.21 | dvs | MySecondNick, yes, add "contrib non-free" to the end of each line that end with "main" |
| 15:51.41 | dvs | MySecondNick, a base file should only have three |
| 15:52.05 | MySecondNick | dvs I have 5 ending in main |
| 15:52.09 | wr | MySecondNick, https://paste.debian.net/1097204/ something similar to this |
| 15:52.10 | dvs | MySecondNick, better yet, can you pastebin what you have now? |
| 15:52.12 | MySecondNick | sorry, 3 |
| 15:52.17 | MySecondNick | dvs yes |
| 15:52.19 | MySecondNick | a second |
| 15:53.11 | wr | MySecondNick, https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Repository_URL |
| 15:53.14 | MySecondNick | dvs https://pastebin.com/qGCHEj6q |
| 15:53.28 | MySecondNick | that is how it looks like unedited |
| 15:53.49 | MySecondNick | so I add "contrib non-free" to the first 3 non-comment lines? |
| 15:54.00 | dvs | MySecondNick, add "contrib non-free" to lines 7 & 8 and "non-free" to lines 10, 11, 14, and 15 |
| 15:54.44 | dvs | MySecondNick, and comment out line 5 |
| 15:55.08 | wr | MySecondNick, if you want can delete it all and use the pastebin posted |
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| 15:55.57 | wr | MySecondNick, after edit you apt-get update && apt-get upgrade |
| 15:56.14 | MySecondNick | ok I have done it |
| 15:56.37 | dvs | MySecondNick, do you have an internet connection with that machine? |
| 15:56.41 | MySecondNick | now I'm running "sudo apt-get update" |
| 15:56.43 | MySecondNick | dvs yes |
| 15:56.45 | dvs | ok |
| 15:57.10 | MySecondNick | well sudo apt-get upgrade doesn't install anything new |
| 15:57.22 | dvs | that's ok. |
| 15:57.29 | MySecondNick | (I did run sudo apt-get update prior to it) |
| 15:57.45 | PhotoJim | now there's a package you have to install to add the firmware. but now you can. |
| 15:57.54 | dvs | MySecondNick, what's the output of "lspci -nn" ? |
| 15:57.56 | PhotoJim | firmware-nonfree I think. have to check. |
| 15:58.12 | dvs | PhotoJim, wrong |
| 15:58.13 | PhotoJim | firmware-linux-nonfree |
| 15:58.33 | dvs | PhotoJim, still may not be that one. |
| 15:58.50 | PhotoJim | true. probably the right one. but not necessarily. |
| 15:58.54 | MySecondNick | dvs here is the output: https://pastebin.com/vUxmJZkH |
| 15:58.59 | SwaggerArch | Ran text editor as administrator privileges to make sure the sourcelist kept the following? To do so, open /etc/apt/sources.list with a text editor, and append "contrib non-free" to each source. |
| 15:59.28 | MySecondNick | my network is currently working as I am connected with a cable |
| 16:00.12 | MySecondNick | SwaggerArch yeah I opened it again, the changes are saved |
| 16:00.14 | wr | MySecondNick, https://packages.debian.org/buster/firmware-atheros |
| 16:00.29 | wr | seems your card is Qualcomm Atheros QCA9377 |
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| 16:00.44 | MySecondNick | wr ok so what do I do now? |
| 16:00.59 | wr | apt-get instal firmware-atheros |
| 16:01.05 | wr | *install |
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| 16:01.22 | MySecondNick | wr OK, that is running |
| 16:01.27 | MySecondNick | how can I enable my touchpad? |
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| 16:01.54 | SwaggerArch | laptop model? |
| 16:02.01 | MySecondNick | wait, before the touchpad, how can I know that my wifi is now working? |
| 16:02.12 | MySecondNick | SwaggerArch Acer A515-51G-52GM |
| 16:02.16 | dvs | MySecondNick, I think you need to reboot first. |
| 16:02.22 | MySecondNick | dvs ok |
| 16:02.25 | MySecondNick | but before the reboot |
| 16:02.31 | MySecondNick | can I install my touchpad drivers as well? |
| 16:02.38 | *** part/#debian hitest (~hitest@unaffiliated/hitest) |
| 16:02.42 | MySecondNick | I can pastebin my hwinfo output |
| 16:02.45 | dvs | MySecondNick, I have no clue about those |
| 16:02.54 | LtL | MySecondNick: xserver-xorg-input-synaptics might do it, and libinput which you should have already |
| 16:03.26 | SwaggerArch | MySecondNick been a few months since played with linux let me see this |
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| 16:03.34 | MySecondNick | LtL so I "sudo apt-get install libinput" and do the same thing with the other package? |
| 16:03.50 | MySecondNick | LtL FYI, I do have Synatptics touchpad |
| 16:03.52 | wr | MySecondNick, one way https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/560299/touchpad-with-debian |
| 16:04.26 | LtL | MySecondNick: try apt install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics # that should be enough |
| 16:04.39 | MySecondNick | wr my touchpad is detected |
| 16:04.47 | MySecondNick | and it is enabled if I go to "Settings" in the GUI |
| 16:04.48 | wr | MySecondNick, https://wiki.debian.org/SynapticsTouchpad |
| 16:04.51 | MySecondNick | but it is just not functional |
| 16:05.41 | dvs | LtL, the wiki says NOT the xserver-xorg-input-synaptics package. |
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| 16:05.49 | dvs | at least for stretch |
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| 16:05.51 | MySecondNick | OK now I installed both the WiFi card firmware as well as that package |
| 16:05.59 | MySecondNick | xserver-xorg-input-synaptics |
| 16:06.30 | LtL | dvs: ok, MySecondNick don't do what i said, read the wiki |
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| 16:06.39 | MySecondNick | oh, seems like I installed the wrong package |
| 16:06.40 | MySecondNick | ok |
| 16:06.48 | MySecondNick | then how can I remove that package I just installed |
| 16:06.53 | MySecondNick | purge it from my system |
| 16:07.08 | wr | apt-get remove |
| 16:07.14 | LtL | MySecondNick: apt remove --purge xserver-xorg-input-synaptics |
| 16:07.17 | wr | apt-get autoremove && apt-get autoclean && apt-get purge && apt-get check -y (carefull on this one) |
| 16:07.26 | SwaggerArch | MySecondNick touchpad issue if still around was to change it in the bios from advanvced to basic to get it to work. New laptops are having this issue as well as old laptops |
| 16:07.47 | MySecondNick | SwaggerArch what in BIOS |
| 16:07.51 | integfred | hi, in the libdrm package --enable-etnaviv-experimental is not enabled on most architectures, and this stops some stuff from building (mesa I think) because libdrm_etnaviv.pc is not found. I am using debian bullsye |
| 16:07.57 | MySecondNick | I boot in BIOS and then what? |
| 16:08.10 | MySecondNick | wr so it is just "sudo apt-get remove xserver-xorg-input-synaptics" ? |
| 16:08.27 | wr | MySecondNick, at start yes |
| 16:08.47 | MySecondNick | wr ok I have run that, now what |
| 16:08.54 | MySecondNick | what is the next command? |
| 16:09.05 | wr | if you want can run the other |
| 16:09.16 | MySecondNick | wr why do I have to be careful? |
| 16:09.19 | wr | apt-get autoremove && apt-get autoclean && apt-get purge && apt-get check |
| 16:09.47 | wr | MySecondNick, depending on your configs and packages |
| 16:09.48 | SwaggerArch | MySecondNick https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/223111/acer-aspire-touchpad-not-detectedhttps://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/223111/acer-aspire-touchpad-not-detected |
| 16:10.12 | wr | MySecondNick, apt commands have an order or you can remove thing you don't want |
| 16:10.31 | MySecondNick | wr so I can safely now run "sudo apt-get autoremove && apt-get autoclean && apt-get purge && apt-get check" |
| 16:11.07 | MySecondNick | ? |
| 16:11.13 | wr | MySecondNick, basically you install, remove, and remove unwanted garbage and check stuff |
| 16:11.56 | MySecondNick | wr OK when I execute that command I get: "E: Could not open lock file /var/cache/apt/archives/lock - open (13: Permission denied) |
| 16:11.56 | MySecondNick | " |
| 16:11.58 | wr | MySecondNick, somewhat like said depending on what you have installed and packages, but probably ok |
| 16:12.17 | MySecondNick | I did the command as sudo |
| 16:12.18 | SwaggerArch | sudo |
| 16:13.19 | MySecondNick | I ran "sudo apt-get autoremove && apt-get autoclean && apt-get purge && apt-get check" |
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| 16:13.43 | MySecondNick | should I switch to root and then execute it without sudo? |
| 16:14.21 | wr | Check that you have no other instances of apt running and close all terminals and open just one, if you want can su - |
| 16:14.42 | wr | synaptic off too |
| 16:15.21 | MySecondNick | OK wr I did "su -", became root and ran "apt-get autoremove && apt-get autoclean && apt-get purge && apt-get check" |
| 16:15.39 | MySecondNick | I will now restart my computer, enter BIOS, switch that setting to basic, log back in here and tell you guys if it worked |
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| 16:15.50 | MySecondNick | I should have my Wireless card recognized now, right? |
| 16:15.51 | wr | try iy |
| 16:15.53 | wr | try it |
| 16:16.11 | MySecondNick | thank you all bye |
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| 16:19.38 | MySecondNick | Aloha guys |
| 16:19.44 | MySecondNick | My Wi-Fi card works! Yaaay! |
| 16:19.59 | MySecondNick | Bad news in regard to my touchpad - in BIOS settings it is already in "Basic" mode |
| 16:20.18 | MySecondNick | so I ought to install the 3 packages from the Debian Synaptic wiki entry or? |
| 16:21.02 | wr | MySecondNick, you probably need to run updates and have backports on |
| 16:21.19 | SwaggerArch | read the rest of the link pls... https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/223111/acer-aspire-touchpad-not-detected |
| 16:22.13 | MySecondNick | SwaggerArch so I can first try to install i2c-tools, switch to "Advanced" in BIOS and then see? |
| 16:22.52 | wr | https://packages.debian.org/buster/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics |
| 16:23.22 | MySecondNick | wr well the wiki says that I should not install that (https://wiki.debian.org/SynapticsTouchpad) |
| 16:23.30 | MySecondNick | at least for Debian 9 |
| 16:23.35 | wr | MySecondNick, touchpad probably needs a driver |
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| 16:23.51 | MySecondNick | wr so your suggestion is install that package, reboot and see what happens? |
| 16:24.14 | wr | MySecondNick, first need to know touchpad |
| 16:25.07 | MySecondNick | wr let me first try installing i2c-tools, switch to Advanced in BIOS and then see |
| 16:25.09 | MySecondNick | OK? |
| 16:25.22 | MySecondNick | that's what the second-ranked answer here says: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/223111/acer-aspire-touchpad-not-detected |
| 16:25.52 | MySecondNick | talk soon bye |
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| 16:32.15 | MySecondNick | OK so I installed that ic2-tools package and changed to Advanced in BIOS - my touchpad is still not working. I also switched to Basic - still, not working. |
| 16:32.19 | MySecondNick | any advice now wr? |
| 16:32.42 | MySecondNick | should I remove the package ic2-tools or can I keep it if it won't do me any harm (AFAIK)? |
| 16:32.52 | wr | egrep -i 'synap|alps|etps|elan' /proc/bus/input/devices https://packages.debian.org/buster/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics |
| 16:33.11 | MySecondNick | wr what will that do? |
| 16:33.23 | wr | first you check what touchpad have |
| 16:33.27 | LtL | i thoought he's on Stretch |
| 16:33.32 | wr | then you can try package |
| 16:33.47 | wr | MySecondNick, you on stretch? |
| 16:34.10 | MySecondNick | wr no, on Debian 10 (Buster) |
| 16:34.16 | MySecondNick | here is the output of that command wr |
| 16:34.18 | wr | ok |
| 16:34.19 | MySecondNick | grep: https://packages.debian.org/buster/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics: No such file or directory |
| 16:34.43 | wr | MySecondNick, sorry, it's one command and one link to a package |
| 16:35.04 | wr | egrep -i 'synap|alps|etps|elan' /proc/bus/input/devices |
| 16:35.09 | MySecondNick | wr oh it is N: Name="SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad" |
| 16:35.10 | wr | https://packages.debian.org/buster/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics |
| 16:35.29 | wr | MySecondNick, so that's the one you have and have to install |
| 16:35.33 | MySecondNick | wr should I remove the ic2-tools or no? |
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| 16:35.45 | wr | MySecondNick, would say yes |
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| 16:36.05 | MySecondNick | wr so it is "sudo apt-get remove ic2-tools" and then it is... I forgot |
| 16:36.19 | wr | yes |
| 16:36.50 | wr | apt-get install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics |
| 16:37.05 | MySecondNick | wr no I mean the purge etc |
| 16:37.15 | MySecondNick | do I need to do that or is removing it just OK? |
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| 16:37.38 | LtL | MySecondNick: just remove should be fine |
| 16:37.43 | MySecondNick | ok |
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| 16:38.19 | MySecondNick | and after this xserver-xorg-input-synaptics installs I reboot, right? |
| 16:38.32 | wr | MySecondNick, you can remove previous command too if want |
| 16:38.58 | MySecondNick | ok xserver-xorg-input-synaptics installed |
| 16:39.03 | MySecondNick | so now I reboot and see, right? |
| 16:39.07 | MySecondNick | what if it doesn't work again? |
| 16:39.07 | wr | MySecondNick, check if it works without reboot if not do one |
| 16:39.50 | wr | let's see |
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| 16:42.13 | MySecondNick | wr after the restart it still doesn't work |
| 16:42.34 | MySecondNick | it is recognized if I go to "System -> Devices" and it is enabled, but it doesn't function |
| 16:42.40 | wr | MySecondNick, on your sources list can you show lines have there |
| 16:42.50 | MySecondNick | wr yes |
| 16:42.53 | MySecondNick | one second |
| 16:43.13 | nkuttler | ,v ssmtp |
| 16:43.14 | judd | Package: ssmtp on amd64 -- jessie: 2.64-8; stretch: 2.64-8+b2; bullseye: 2.64-8.1+b1; sid: 2.64-8.1+b1 |
| 16:43.23 | nkuttler | pff |
| 16:43.44 | MySecondNick | wr what is the full path to sources.list again? |
| 16:43.56 | nkuttler | MySecondNick: man 5 sources.list |
| 16:44.21 | LtL | /etc/apt/sources.list MySecondNick |
| 16:44.30 | wr | nano /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 16:44.43 | MySecondNick | wr https://pastebin.com/5mhxQ1DW |
| 16:44.49 | MySecondNick | that is my sources.list contents |
| 16:44.55 | wr | MySecondNick, all commands you do are on history so is arrow key up down or a search |
| 16:45.24 | wr | hmm seems you did not alter sources list |
| 16:45.35 | MySecondNick | wr I have |
| 16:45.45 | MySecondNick | they all have contrib non-free in the end |
| 16:45.50 | MySecondNick | and I commented out line 5 |
| 16:46.13 | MySecondNick | line 11 also has non-free at the end, it is just long so it is not shown in my "nano" in Terminal |
| 16:46.15 | wr | MySecondNick, not all |
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| 16:46.54 | wr | deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-$ |
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| 16:47.03 | MySecondNick | wr just another paste, to make your soul content: https://pastebin.com/m3kiMtG7 |
| 16:47.12 | MySecondNick | that is my content |
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| 16:47.21 | MySecondNick | the $ was because the Terminal wasn't expanded |
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| 16:48.09 | wr | MySecondNick, https://paste.debian.net/1097204/ like this |
| 16:48.43 | MySecondNick | wr should I replace my contents with those? |
| 16:48.50 | wr | yes |
| 16:49.07 | wr | won't need extra lines |
| 16:49.29 | MySecondNick | ok |
| 16:49.34 | MySecondNick | and now I apt-get update |
| 16:49.39 | MySecondNick | and apt-get upgrade? |
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| 16:50.27 | LtL | MySecondNick: can't hurt, good idea. |
| 16:50.35 | wr | MySecondNick, https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Distribution yes you update |
| 16:51.31 | MySecondNick | ok |
| 16:51.35 | MySecondNick | I also rand upgrade |
| 16:51.50 | MySecondNick | it just said that there are some packages which I could uninstall, but no newly installed packages |
| 16:51.56 | MySecondNick | what do I do now? |
| 16:52.22 | wr | MySecondNick, you can remove them if they are not needed |
| 16:52.35 | MySecondNick | ok |
| 16:52.37 | MySecondNick | I did that |
| 16:52.40 | MySecondNick | sudo apt autoremove |
| 16:52.46 | MySecondNick | but how do I enable my touchpad? |
| 16:52.50 | MySecondNick | I tried the BIOS thing |
| 16:52.54 | MySecondNick | I tried with the xorg drivers |
| 16:52.57 | MySecondNick | it didn't work |
| 16:53.01 | LtL | MySecondNick: does $ dpkg -l xserver-xorg-input-libinput # show installed? |
| 16:53.01 | MySecondNick | I am losing patience |
| 16:53.38 | MySecondNick | LtL, yes it shows some Name, Version etc. |
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| 16:54.18 | MySecondNick | I can try the last answer here: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/223111/acer-aspire-touchpad-not-detected |
| 16:54.39 | LtL | MySecondNick: how abou as root or sudo, 'dmesg |grep -i firmware' any output? |
| 16:55.00 | wr | MySecondNick, do a apt-get -f install and then read this https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/223111/acer-aspire-touchpad-not-detected on final posts |
| 16:55.27 | MySecondNick | wr you mean the final post? |
| 16:55.46 | wr | last ones |
| 16:56.19 | wr | show /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics.conf |
| 16:57.10 | MySecondNick | ok will try |
| 16:57.15 | MySecondNick | wr am following that |
| 16:57.17 | MySecondNick | will reboot |
| 16:57.19 | MySecondNick | I added the lines |
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| 17:00.24 | SwaggerArch | wr this is the steps we had to get the touvchpad to work for acer laptop on manjaro ... |
| 17:02.44 | SwaggerArch | @wr https://forum.manjaro.org/t/solved-touchpad-stopped-working-since-4-19-14/72735/7 |
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| 17:04.01 | SwaggerArch | @wr we had to set the xinput for the drivers to correct buttons because they were mapped to button 2 or so on for incorrect mapping not sure if this works with debian to remap input or output of buttons on touchpad |
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| 17:04.34 | wr | SwaggerArch, on wiki says "In most cases, make sure you have xserver-xorg-input-libinput xserver-xorg-input-evdev xserver-xorg-input-mouse installed, and not the xserver-xorg-input-synaptics package." |
| 17:04.47 | wr | on stretch |
| 17:06.06 | SwaggerArch | @wr that is 100% correct yet in some advanced and basic touchpads the bios has buttons set to different keys.. |
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| 17:06.53 | MySecondNick | Hello, I tried the 2nd from the bottom answer, didn't work |
| 17:07.08 | MySecondNick | wr, do you think that I should try to combine the answers or test them out separately? |
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| 17:07.48 | i_am_k-lined_LOL | i am evading network bans |
| 17:07.52 | i_am_k-lined_LOL | lol |
| 17:07.56 | wr | MySecondNick, your bios you did some changes on it? could you have it load default values? just while you try this? |
| 17:08.22 | MySecondNick | wr I tried with both Basic and Advanced - didn't work |
| 17:08.34 | MySecondNick | my default in BIOS was Basic |
| 17:08.37 | MySecondNick | it is Basic now |
| 17:08.42 | MySecondNick | btw. I can try the last answer |
| 17:08.54 | MySecondNick | when I run "cd /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/ ; ls -la" I get |
| 17:09.05 | wr | MySecondNick, my guess on this would be for you to try things but by order but any change you make and don't need it you have to reverse it like for example if you install or edit files you need to put them back on wiki also says this "In most cases, make sure you have xserver-xorg-input-libinput xserver-xorg-input-evdev xserver-xorg-input-mouse installed, and not the xserver-xorg-input-synaptics package." |
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| 17:09.59 | MySecondNick | wr well the last answer includes deleting stuff |
| 17:10.28 | MySecondNick | I would have to delete everything except libinput in here: https://pastebin.com/rnX7AV6k |
| 17:10.31 | MySecondNick | that sounds dangerous |
| 17:10.35 | wr | MySecondNick, also, you need to have all updates made till no more |
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| 17:11.42 | MySecondNick | wr let me ask you two questions: 1) Do you agree with me that deleting the stuff as suggested in the last answer in https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/223111/acer-aspire-touchpad-not-detected is not a good idea? |
| 17:11.48 | wr | MySecondNick, on that link configs need some edits, but also to test |
| 17:12.14 | MySecondNick | wr I did not get your last message |
| 17:12.16 | MySecondNick | what were you saying? |
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| 17:13.52 | SwaggerArch | MySecondNick you have installed driver just nothing works have you installed just xev and test the buttons to see the output on screen to see if it reconginizes the buttons in the small window? |
| 17:14.45 | MySecondNick | SwaggerArch what is xev? HOw can I test the buttons? |
| 17:15.12 | wr | MySecondNick, do not remove anything just edit accordingly if it suits your setup besides packages, i cannot say much on that because all depends, normally for things to work you install firmware and also edit some files |
| 17:15.50 | wr | but these setups can be tricky when have no clue on what are doing and then is try/test |
| 17:16.04 | MySecondNick | well I can try the last answer |
| 17:16.06 | MySecondNick | in the link |
| 17:16.08 | MySecondNick | why not? |
| 17:16.23 | MySecondNick | or, maybe even better is |
| 17:16.29 | MySecondNick | what are the keyboard shortcuts? |
| 17:16.35 | MySecondNick | I can use the mouse 95% of the time |
| 17:16.38 | SwaggerArch | xbindingkeys will get link hold on from ubuntu |
| 17:16.41 | MySecondNick | and in the 5% I don't |
| 17:16.43 | wr | MySecondNick, i would just say this leave bios on defaults and only if needed after edits change a setting |
| 17:16.54 | MySecondNick | ok |
| 17:16.58 | MySecondNick | but let's be practical here |
| 17:17.04 | SwaggerArch | https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2248956 |
| 17:17.11 | wr | MySecondNick, maybe someone had done this config and can give more helps |
| 17:17.19 | MySecondNick | I can follow the bottom answer with 0 upvotes here and possibly fuck my system up: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/223111/acer-aspire-touchpad-not-detected |
| 17:17.30 | MySecondNick | I can spend X amount of time configuring this |
| 17:17.39 | MySecondNick | or, I can learn a few simple keyboard shortcuts |
| 17:17.49 | MySecondNick | so I can do my usual stuff just with a keyboard |
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| 17:18.09 | SwaggerArch | MySecondNick feel playing with this is bad idea I can leave it alone.. |
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| 17:18.11 | wr | MySecondNick, linux is all by hand so if you have no clue i would not touch it unless you wanna try and get lucky |
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| 17:18.33 | MySecondNick | my usual stuff include: Launching Firefox, opening Files (in GUI), searching for files (in GUI) |
| 17:18.42 | MySecondNick | navigating to the desired file (in the GUI) |
| 17:18.46 | MySecondNick | so when my laptop starts |
| 17:18.50 | MySecondNick | I have no touchpad |
| 17:18.58 | MySecondNick | and I have to access "Activites" on the top left |
| 17:19.03 | MySecondNick | so I can access FIrefox etc. |
| 17:19.08 | MySecondNick | what do I press on the keyboard? |
| 17:19.10 | wr | MySecondNick, just do a backup on a file when edit and then can try |
| 17:19.21 | MySecondNick | wr screw the touchpad, OK? |
| 17:19.31 | MySecondNick | I really truly don't want to fuck with it anymore |
| 17:19.52 | MySecondNick | I just want to know how can I access "Activities" with my keyboard |
| 17:19.55 | MySecondNick | without a mouse |
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| 17:20.24 | MySecondNick | because from there I can (hopefully) use the up/down arrow to select firefox and files and other things and I can navigate my entire computer with my keyboard alone |
| 17:20.27 | MySecondNick | no touchpad needed |
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| 17:20.37 | wr | MySecondNick, do you have xserver-xorg-input-libinput xserver-xorg-input-evdev xserver-xorg-input-mouse installed ? |
| 17:20.42 | MySecondNick | it is not the most elegant solution but it is a solution |
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| 17:21.44 | MySecondNick | wr evdev and mouse were not installed |
| 17:22.05 | MySecondNick | and I ought to remove that xserver-xorg-input-synaptics |
| 17:22.12 | MySecondNick | or no? |
| 17:22.17 | MySecondNick | the wiki says I should |
| 17:22.31 | MySecondNick | is "sudo apt-get remove xserver-xorg-input-synaptics" going to do it, or do I need to run the purge stuff? |
| 17:23.15 | wr | MySecondNick, if you wanna try with those packages will be quick, remove one and try others, but go along with wiki logic |
| 17:23.32 | wr | https://wiki.debian.org/SynapticsTouchpad#libinput |
| 17:23.34 | MySecondNick | wr by the wiki logic I have to remove |
| 17:23.35 | MySecondNick | xserver-xorg-input-synaptics |
| 17:23.45 | MySecondNick | is apt-get remove going to be enough or do I have to purge? |
| 17:23.48 | wr | try it and let's see |
| 17:24.45 | MySecondNick | wr how will I possibly know if it was enough? |
| 17:25.34 | SwaggerArch | This is why I use VmWare. |
| 17:25.52 | MySecondNick | ok I ran apt-get remove xserver-xorg-input-synaptics and will now restart |
| 17:26.00 | MySecondNick | but please, when I come back next time |
| 17:26.03 | MySecondNick | will someone just tell me |
| 17:26.07 | MySecondNick | how to acces Activities |
| 17:26.11 | MySecondNick | with just a keyboard |
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| 17:26.22 | MySecondNick | that will be 250% better than wasting time on enabling my touchpad |
| 17:26.30 | SwaggerArch | activities? |
| 17:26.33 | MySecondNick | 250000% better* |
| 17:26.34 | d3c0 | hi! |
| 17:26.41 | MySecondNick | SwaggerArch yes, the top left cornet |
| 17:26.43 | MySecondNick | corner* |
| 17:26.54 | SwaggerArch | start menu |
| 17:27.06 | wr | MySecondNick, alt+f2 or f1 i guess |
| 17:27.29 | d3c0 | i just installed Buster, where is the init command? |
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| 17:28.31 | LtL | d3c0: /sbin/init -> /lib/systemd/systemd |
| 17:28.42 | SwaggerArch | @wr that is the terminal for that command. |
| 17:28.53 | wr | https://wiki.debian.org/systemd |
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| 17:29.11 | LtL | d3c0: /sbin/init is a symlink |
| 17:29.21 | SwaggerArch | https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.html.en |
| 17:29.27 | SwaggerArch | I really don |
| 17:29.48 | SwaggerArch | don't know if this is kde or gnome I hope its gnome |
| 17:29.51 | wr | SwaggerArch, have that link too here |
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| 17:31.14 | MySecondNick | OK so the wiki solution does not work either |
| 17:31.14 | d3c0 | the command init 0, or init 6, I did it in the # root, How can I do with this new Buster? |
| 17:31.34 | MySecondNick | I am not following the last answer here: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/223111/acer-aspire-touchpad-not-detected as it includes deleting stuff |
| 17:31.34 | d3c0 | LtL: let me see |
| 17:31.38 | LtL | d3c0: systemctl |
| 17:31.52 | MySecondNick | so can someone tell me how to access the top left "Activities" with solely my keyboard |
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| 17:32.14 | LtL | d3c0: what do you want to do? |
| 17:32.24 | Guest8497 | my solution to similar problems was apt-get remove systemd |
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| 17:32.55 | SwaggerArch | MySecondNick had multiple touchpad drivers installed and needed to remove all drivers |
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| 17:33.25 | wr | MySecondNick, yes, by the way, you need one driver for one touchpad |
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| 17:33.41 | MySecondNick | so maybe the last answer is good |
| 17:33.43 | d3c0 | Ltl: simple, with root -- > # init 6, init 0, reboot , shutdown , I only receive this "command not found" |
| 17:33.52 | wr | MySecondNick, https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.html.en alt+f1 |
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| 17:34.48 | SwaggerArch | After 3 years of trying to fix this issue i finally found a solution. The problem is that there are too many touchpad drivers installed. |
| 17:34.49 | wr | MySecondNick, your on Gnome right? |
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| 17:35.05 | LtL | d3c0: to reboot, shutdown -r now -or- reboot the latter i've never used. |
| 17:35.07 | MySecondNick | wr yes |
| 17:35.15 | MySecondNick | but the command cd /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/ ; ls -la |
| 17:35.15 | wr | MySecondNick, https://youtu.be/bsjY58ax0PQ |
| 17:36.05 | d3c0 | LtL: ok only init 6 or init 0 It's enough for me, Tell me, has this changed in Buster? |
| 17:37.10 | wr | MySecondNick, basically on that vid installs one driver and does one edit on stretch, on your hardware would be more or less the same, just need to know right one, maybe someone can confirm which one is |
| 17:37.18 | LtL | d3c0: i believe init will work but it's more a sysVinit method. |
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| 17:37.28 | SwaggerArch | MySecondNick Long format list (permissions, ownership, size and modification date) of all files:ls -la |
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| 17:38.23 | LtL | d3c0: i can't say, sorry. |
| 17:38.45 | MySecondNick | finds SwaggerArch I am following the last answer on the https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/223111/acer-aspire-touchpad-not-detected |
| 17:38.48 | SwaggerArch | MySecondNick installed multiple touchpad drivers wanted to see if why his sudo wouldn't unistall the files and who had permissions to the drivers in order to delete the files |
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| 17:39.19 | MySecondNick | but on the last command "sudo cp /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/*libinput* /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/" it gives me: "cp: cannot create regular file '/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/': Not a directory" |
| 17:39.30 | d3c0 | LtL: don't worry, thanks, I really just thought that my installation was wrong |
| 17:39.59 | wr | MySecondNick, on a cp cannot do files directories |
| 17:40.00 | MySecondNick | do I remove the trailing "/" to "fix" the cp command above? |
| 17:40.38 | MySecondNick | ok so what is the right command |
| 17:40.38 | wr | MySecondNick, first see that you cannot do copy a file to a diretory |
| 17:41.07 | MySecondNick | wr what? |
| 17:41.16 | SwaggerArch | MySecondNick I see wanted to put back the vinilla file by doing a delete file and copy the orginal source file back to its location which wr was saying not ... |
| 17:41.44 | MySecondNick | I don't understand your messages |
| 17:41.56 | MySecondNick | quite literally |
| 17:42.01 | wr | MySecondNick, linux logic is that you have to understand what your are doing not just paste, or you get confused |
| 17:42.03 | MySecondNick | I can't interpet them |
| 17:42.10 | MySecondNick | wr ok |
| 17:42.12 | MySecondNick | I understand that |
| 17:42.14 | troulouliou_div2 | hi is it possible with symbols to setup GDB to have access to source code of libc ? |
| 17:42.14 | MySecondNick | however |
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| 17:42.42 | MySecondNick | what did the author mean to say when he said "sudo cp /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/*libinput* /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/" here: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/223111/acer-aspire-touchpad-not-detected |
| 17:42.53 | MySecondNick | and what is the right command to do the job in that context? |
| 17:43.09 | wr | MySecondNick, if you go by try/paste and works, you will have lots troubles eventually... unless someone always send you commands |
| 17:43.11 | MySecondNick | I know this is "feed-me-the-solution" type of question, but I just want to get my touchpad enabled |
| 17:43.46 | MySecondNick | I've got no problem reading on command line and other things when I have free time and when all of my hardware actually works |
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| 17:44.43 | wr | MySecondNick, everything on that directory that has that name to go to diretoty path |
| 17:45.01 | SwaggerArch | MySecondNick I don't see a solution. I am following wr advice and not messing with the touchpad before we break the system.. |
| 17:45.37 | SwaggerArch | MySecondNick 1487 users someone might have better answer |
| 17:45.51 | MySecondNick | ok I found out what the problem is |
| 17:46.02 | MySecondNick | there is no xorg.conf.d in X11 directory |
| 17:46.10 | SwaggerArch | hmmm??? |
| 17:46.25 | MySecondNick | there is /etc/X11/, but no /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ |
| 17:46.32 | MySecondNick | it doesn't exist on my system |
| 17:46.35 | MySecondNick | that folder |
| 17:46.39 | MySecondNick | maybe I should first mkdir |
| 17:46.44 | MySecondNick | then paste it or what? |
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| 17:47.25 | wr | MySecondNick, a conf.d is a diretory conf file, can have several lines |
| 17:47.41 | MySecondNick | oh wait |
| 17:47.45 | SwaggerArch | MySecondNick not going that route Debian system versus Ubuntu... Not a good idea |
| 17:47.55 | MySecondNick | wr what is that thing doing? |
| 17:48.00 | MySecondNick | that command cp |
| 17:48.06 | MySecondNick | is it copying the file to /etc/X11 |
| 17:48.12 | SwaggerArch | copy |
| 17:48.17 | MySecondNick | and renaming it to xorg.conf.d? |
| 17:48.27 | wr | cp is copy file to diretory |
| 17:48.37 | MySecondNick | but then it doesn't make sense |
| 17:48.41 | MySecondNick | the entire cp command |
| 17:48.50 | MySecondNick | because xorg.conf.d is a file |
| 17:48.54 | MySecondNick | right? |
| 17:49.12 | MySecondNick | and cp has the syntax cp <src> <dest> |
| 17:49.25 | MySecondNick | I just need that last step so I can test this solution |
| 17:49.40 | MySecondNick | so I am copying from /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/ |
| 17:49.44 | MySecondNick | to where? |
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| 17:50.38 | SwaggerArch | xserver-xorg-input-libinput Â6Ã0 trunk. The X.Org libinput driver is a thin wrapper around libinput and allows for libinput to be used for input devices in X. This driver can be used as as drop-in replacement for evdev and synaptics. |
| 17:50.41 | MySecondNick | OK so here is what I did |
| 17:50.48 | wr | MySecondNick, one example on a cp /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/*libinput* can throw all lines on that path file that have "x" to another directory, a tiny difference is another game |
| 17:50.50 | MySecondNick | I went to /etc/X11 |
| 17:51.05 | MySecondNick | and "sudo mkdir xorg.conf.d" |
| 17:51.11 | MySecondNick | now I will copy that file |
| 17:51.12 | MySecondNick | and that is it |
| 17:51.29 | SwaggerArch | There you go copied file from input to the config file input of the x driver... |
| 17:51.37 | MySecondNick | there |
| 17:51.42 | MySecondNick | will reboot now and see what happens |
| 17:51.45 | MySecondNick | if that doesn't fix it |
| 17:51.50 | MySecondNick | ... |
| 17:51.51 | MySecondNick | well |
| 17:51.58 | MySecondNick | I understand (kind of) |
| 17:52.02 | MySecondNick | but am getting impatient |
| 17:52.04 | MySecondNick | as you may imagine |
| 17:52.11 | MySecondNick | talk soon will restart to see what happens |
| 17:52.11 | SwaggerArch | OMG.... this is crazy... |
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| 17:53.15 | SwaggerArch | never used xev to test the input of the touchpad in the box to see if the key input was the wrong buttons... |
| 17:53.37 | SwaggerArch | I should never have posted that google search. |
| 17:53.38 | SwaggerArch | ' |
| 17:54.32 | SwaggerArch | this is going to blow up in my face... smh |
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| 17:56.28 | MySecondNick | hey guys |
| 17:56.36 | MySecondNick | it turns out that that didn't help as well |
| 17:56.45 | MySecondNick | ... |
| 17:57.13 | MySecondNick | guess I can't have my touchpad on my new laptop |
| 17:57.25 | MySecondNick | I tried installing Ubuntu, it doesn't work on Ubuntu installer as well |
| 17:57.41 | MySecondNick | so it is a pretty good indicator it won't work in the actual Ubuntu |
| 17:57.53 | znull | hey guys, after my last update im on debian 10.0 every time i try to open Software Center or libreoffce they just close after 1 second, im not sure how to debug this |
| 17:59.14 | diogenes_ | znull, open them in terminal and see what is the error they exit with. |
| 17:59.18 | MySecondNick | wr and SwaggerArch thank you for trying to help me |
| 17:59.21 | MySecondNick | for real |
| 17:59.36 | MySecondNick | I will not use the touchpad and that's it |
| 18:00.04 | MySecondNick | will re-install DEbian |
| 18:00.09 | MySecondNick | because I deleted those packages |
| 18:00.36 | diogenes_ | MySecondNick, has it even worked under linux? does it work in bios? (if the bios supports it) |
| 18:00.40 | wr | MySecondNick, on here says https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Touchpad_Synaptics If you want to configure touchpad via GNOME control center, you need to use the libinput driver. |
| 18:01.03 | MySecondNick | wr now I have only the libinut driver |
| 18:01.20 | MySecondNick | maybe I should try using another distro? |
| 18:01.41 | wr | MySecondNick, first i would read all wiki's good before any try, maybe later someone good on this can give you more input |
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| 18:02.02 | MySecondNick | and I will reinstall my Debian |
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| 18:02.07 | MySecondNick | For the 3rd time today |
| 18:02.17 | MySecondNick | God I hate my soul when I do sysadmin work |
| 18:02.22 | znull | diogenes_, ok, well i've removed yesterday libreoffice and when trying to reinstall it .. something is weird to many packages apt wants to install https://paste.debian.net/plain/1097227 |
| 18:03.38 | diogenes_ | znull, wow, i have never seen so many packages to be installed, that one of the reasons i always prefer a clear install over upgrades. |
| 18:03.51 | diogenes_ | takes less time, less headache. |
| 18:03.54 | MySecondNick | ok so I will do a reinstall wr |
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| 18:03.59 | MySecondNick | install my wifi drivers |
| 18:04.02 | MySecondNick | and use the mouse |
| 18:04.06 | MySecondNick | sounds good to me |
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| 18:05.21 | MySecondNick | what do you think wr? |
| 18:05.27 | znull | diogenes_, well something is broken or apt gone crazy 6gb for libreoffce its to much lol |
| 18:05.31 | MySecondNick | SwaggerArch? |
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| 18:09.37 | SwaggerArch | MySecondNick yes |
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| 18:14.19 | nvz | for the love of bob, will you people stop pressing enter so damn much.. I am sleeping over here and thats driving me nuts. Check this out.. I'm putting more than 4-6 words on a line, and using various punctuation marks. How cool is that? |
| 18:14.56 | nvz | its virtually impossible to follow what you're saying when its spead out across all those lines |
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| 18:16.48 | martigan | Hey all, is there a way to manually set the CPU throttleing temp? I have been trying to figure out a "Package temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled" errors for a week now and I think its getting throttled to early? I'm at around 40c when I get the errors. The fan kicked on when I was able to get it to 45c one time but it never comes on before getting seeing the error in dmesg. Sensors never |
| 18:16.54 | martigan | shows the temp above 45c. |
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| 18:20.28 | nvz | martigan: thats not typical usage of frequency scaling, its more often used for power management based on demand.. but there is a userspace govenor that you can configure manually |
| 18:21.05 | martigan | If I use cat /dev/zero > /dev/null I can get the temp to jump up and kick the fan on so I know the fan is working. |
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| 18:21.51 | martigan | I dont' know the next steps to trouble shoot this thing. I'm lost then. lol |
| 18:22.19 | martigan | And i'm entry level so just figured id reach out in here for help. |
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| 18:23.06 | nvz | martigan: depends on whether or not you are trying to arbitrarily make a temp based freq govenor (this isn't how it works) or figure out what is as you feel, throttling your cpu unecessarily |
| 18:23.50 | nvz | cpus these days /do/ have thresholds for temp and scale back.. particularly in mobiles.. but this isnt normal kernel based scaling and the thresholds are more than double 40-45C |
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| 18:25.03 | nvz | my fans don't even turn on until my cpu gets over that temp |
| 18:28.04 | martigan | I want to figure out what is throttleing it and fix it the correct way. Not just make a temp based freq govenor. Someone said I may need to repaste but I feel thats not correct as the temp is at a steady 40c and the fan kicks on at around 60c which seems normal to me? |
| 18:29.04 | martigan | How do I find what is throttling it? |
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| 18:33.02 | martigan | https://imgur.com/YUsaNM7 |
| 18:33.04 | diogenes_ | martigan, start with: sudo powertop and go to devices section. |
| 18:33.12 | nvz | there are 3 possible ways a cpu is throttled with varying degrees of control.. the kernel/userland (software), and you can fully control that.. the bios/uefi/efi (firmware) and you can /maybe/ control that at boot time.. and on the die itself in microcode or such, and you have absolutely no control over that |
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| 18:33.51 | nvz | I was going to suggest a simple dmesg | grep gov |
| 18:34.13 | nvz | or dmesg -T | grep gov would prob be better |
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| 18:37.45 | martigan | Sat Aug 24 09:18:58 2019] cpuidle: using governor ladder |
| 18:37.46 | martigan | [Sat Aug 24 09:18:58 2019] cpuidle: using governor menu |
| 18:38.17 | humpled | i have that too |
| 18:38.18 | nvz | same as mine ladder to menu within seconds |
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| 18:39.00 | martigan | I also had to install intel microcode from non free. |
| 18:39.23 | martigan | I have a kaby lake processor. Idk if that makes a difference in trying to figure this out. |
| 18:39.46 | nvz | martigan: how about what is giving these messages you seen and what they are specifically? |
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| 18:40.58 | nvz | looks that up :P |
| 18:41.23 | nvz | back when I'd gotten certified knowing all the cpu models, cache sizes, etc was required.. but that was a long time ago.. heh |
| 18:41.56 | nvz | seems thats the 7th gen.. I have the 4th gen Haswell |
| 18:42.40 | humpled | the nexus 7 you say, could be trouble... |
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| 18:43.11 | nvz | careful now.. using nexus if meaning that literally is dangerous.. thats now a brand :P |
| 18:43.46 | nvz | we're talking about intel cpus not about google hardware |
| 18:44.17 | martigan | nexus 6 > all just fyi, if were hijacking debain support rn |
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| 18:46.56 | nardev | guys, i have one very simple question. What is the difference between nvidia-driver package in the non-free repos and linux drivers from nvidia page ? |
| 18:47.25 | humpled | oh sorry, my ancient film references have been overwritten by brand recognition :| |
| 18:47.38 | nvz | nardev: one is managed by the package manager and patched for Debian and the other isn't. |
| 18:47.47 | nvz | nardev: one is suported here, the other isnt |
| 18:48.14 | nardev | nvz, but in essence i should get same quality driver in both cases? |
| 18:48.21 | annadane | https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Don.27t_use_GPU_manufacturer_install_scripts |
| 18:48.27 | nvz | nardev: you /should/ yes |
| 18:48.33 | nardev | nvz |
| 18:48.35 | nardev | thnx |
| 18:49.22 | martigan | diogenes: Thanks for that, I didn't know about powertop https://imgur.com/RtPivQs |
| 18:49.23 | nardev | nvz, if i install nvidia-driver it doesn't fetch linux headers, because it's prebuilt driver? |
| 18:50.51 | nvz | martigan: do you have any MCE events in dmesg, possibly around the same time these messages are showing up? |
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| 18:51.28 | nvz | nardev: idk, I haven't used nvidia in a long time, but I'd imagine that it pulls in dkms which should pull in headers |
| 18:51.39 | nvz | ,depends nvidia-driver |
| 18:51.40 | judd | Package nvidia-driver in buster/amd64 -- depends: nvidia-driver-libs (= 418.74-1) | nvidia-driver-libs-nonglvnd (= 418.74-1), nvidia-driver-bin (= 418.74-1), xserver-xorg-video-nvidia (= 418.74-1), nvidia-vdpau-driver (= 418.74-1), nvidia-alternative (= 418.74-1), nvidia-kernel-dkms (= 418.74-1) | nvidia-kernel-418.74, nvidia-support,nvidia-installer-cleanup, nvidia-legacy-check (>= 343). |
| 18:52.05 | nvz | ,depends nvidia-kernel-dkms |
| 18:52.06 | judd | Package nvidia-kernel-dkms in buster/amd64 -- depends: dkms (>= 2.1.0.0), nvidia-kernel-support--v1,nvidia-installer-cleanup. |
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| 18:52.22 | nvz | ,depends dkms |
| 18:52.23 | judd | Package dkms in buster/amd64 -- depends: kmod | kldutils, gcc, dpkg-dev, make | build-essential, coreutils (>= 7.4), patch. |
| 18:52.29 | nvz | interesting |
| 18:53.05 | nvz | ,why nvidia-driver linux-headers-amd64 |
| 18:53.31 | judd | Packages nvidia-driver and linux-headers-amd64 in buster/amd64 are linked by 1 chains: nvidia-driver ⶠxserver-xorg-video-nvidia ⷠnvidia-vdpau-driver ⷠnvidia-kernel-dkms ⶠdkms ⷠlinux-headers-amd64 |
| 18:54.19 | martigan | nvz: "what is giving these messages you seen and what they are specifically?" what do you mean? |
| 18:54.41 | martigan | looks up MCE events |
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| 18:54.52 | nvz | martigan: I mean we need more context of the errors themselves.. my best guess is its the kernel's MCE driver |
| 18:55.31 | nvz | martigan: dmesg -T | grep -A 4 -B 4 mce | nc termbin.com 9999 |
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| 18:56.18 | nardev | Also, one issue i have, i don't know if it is related to my mouse, gtk3 or graphics card/drivers. I have logitech MX mouse and there is a noticeable 'glitch' when i move it. Also, at the same time, i started using bit 4K monitor so i don't know if that is one of the reasons because the mouse resolution is not that big so it becomes noticeable. |
| 18:56.45 | nvz | martigan: which since you say the temps seem to be in a 40-45C range, which is normal, barely significant range for even turning on a fan.. it could be an unhandled MCE due to some kinda bug with your specific hardware |
| 18:57.39 | nvz | nardev: that could very well be a gfx issue depending on how its handling the cursor.. most gfx cards have hardware cursor options |
| 18:58.47 | nvz | nardev: is there any significant cpu/gpu usage during these glitches, is it persistent or intermittant? |
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| 19:00.55 | nardev | nvz, it's constant, the system is minimal gnome, fresh install, nothing running in bg. |
| 19:01.42 | nvz | nardev: if its constant than its not likely do to IO bound processing hanging up the interrupts, but just due to the method of drawing the cursor |
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| 19:03.24 | nvz | nardev: grep -i cursor /var/log/Xorg.0.log | nc termbin.com 9999 |
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| 19:04.55 | nvz | mine is an Intel 4400HD using hwcursor on a 1080p screen.. and I notice jittering when I move the mouse |
| 19:05.37 | martigan | nvz: https://termbin.com/l2ve |
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| 19:07.41 | nvz | martigan: ok, so no mce events.. what about searching around the errors.. |
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| 19:08.31 | nvz | martigan: dmesg | grep -A4 -B4 -i throttle | nc termbin.com 9999 |
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| 19:09.47 | nvz | the -A4 -B4 options tell grep to show 4 lines before and after any matching line the -i is to ignore case |
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| 19:12.24 | tdn | What tool can I use to batch convert a lot of FLAC albums to MP3? |
| 19:12.34 | tdn | While keeping metadata intact |
| 19:12.49 | nvz | tdn: winff could perhaps do it with a gui, ffmpeg on the command line |
| 19:13.30 | nvz | though if you want it to respect metadata you may want a fancier music app |
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| 19:14.54 | tdn | nvz, I am using winff right now. And it is fine except for the following: 1) when adding files, I seem to have to add one file at a time. Now whole folders or folder trees. 2) it does not convert in parallell. Even when I configure it to do that it takes one file at a time and use only one core for ffmpeg. 3) It does not allow output to a similar folder pattern. Either all files go in same folder no matter |
| 19:15.00 | tdn | where they came from or all files go to the exact same file as they were read on. (not good if they all come from read only network mount, etc.) |
| 19:15.10 | tdn | nvz, metadata is essential |
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| 19:16.31 | martigan | nvz: There isn't any other errors on either side of it. Just the same repeating clock throttled then speed normal over and over. |
| 19:16.34 | martigan | termbin.com/v7aj |
| 19:17.36 | nvz | tdn: soundconverter seems to suggest it can preserve metadata |
| 19:17.41 | martigan | BTW, thanks for termbin.com. Thats going in te quiver for sure. |
| 19:17.44 | nvz | ,i soundconverter |
| 19:17.45 | judd | Package soundconverter (gnome, optional) in buster/amd64: GNOME application to convert audio files into other formats. Version: 3.0.1-2; Size: 107.3k; Installed: 808k; Homepage: http://soundconverter.org/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/soundconverter |
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| 19:19.01 | nvz | martigan: I use it a lot in here cause things like pastebinit are optional but netcat is typically installed on most debian installs |
| 19:19.48 | tdn | nvz, thanks for the tip. Trying it |
| 19:20.23 | martigan | and you can just curl the results. It's legit. Good for people like me that need help from people like you. lol :p |
| 19:21.07 | nvz | martigan: those errors are contradictory.. the only messages around the ones saying the threshold was exceeded are ones saing the temp/speed is normal within 1sec of saying the threshold was exceeded |
| 19:21.53 | nvz | [Sat Aug 24 09:39:43 2019] CPU1: Package temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled (total events = 1) [Sat Aug 24 09:39:43 2019] CPU1: Core temperature/speed normal |
| 19:21.58 | nvz | that doesn't make any sense |
| 19:22.02 | martigan | Youre telling me. lol. |
| 19:22.21 | nvz | I'm willing to bet if you'd done it without the -T it'd show that was a instantaneous thing.. |
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| 19:22.35 | nvz | normally it shows thousandths of a second |
| 19:22.41 | martigan | Is there a better way to actually tell if it is being throttled? |
| 19:23.19 | nvz | martigan: well, we already checked for messages about the gov, thats not being changed.. and we checked for throttling messages, and these are the only ones.. |
| 19:23.59 | martigan | https://termbin.com/73r4 |
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| 19:27.11 | nvz | idk if there is a tool for this already but I can throw one together real quick.. hold on.. |
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| 19:32.44 | martigan | You're making me feel guilty for taking your time man. lol I always feel guilty like I haven't looked hard enough for the fix yet but I have been looking for a week now and the only solutions I remember seeing were how to make the errors stop showing up but not find the actual issue. |
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| 19:37.55 | nvz | martigan: this is a little well.. whatever.. heh.. it works http://paste.debian.net/1097248/ |
| 19:38.35 | nvz | martigan: you could save that set it chmod +x and then run it with the watch command to continuously output the settings live from the kernel across all cores |
| 19:39.04 | nvz | martigan: in effect giving you monitoring of the change in cpu scaling options |
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| 19:40.23 | nvz | martigan: this is an example of me doing watch ./cpufreqmon on my system http://paste.debian.net/1097249/ |
| 19:40.57 | nvz | its updating the values every 2 seconds.. you can change the interval with watch -n 1 for 1sec for example |
| 19:41.06 | martigan | checking |
| 19:42.05 | nvz | martigan: if you have more or less than 4 cores, just change the cpus=4 variable |
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| 19:43.11 | nvz | I kept it simple enough that the same script could be used to monitor just about anything with other settings easily added |
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| 19:48.38 | martigan | https://paste.debian.net/1097250/ |
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| 19:50.11 | nvz | martigan: http://paste.debian.net/1097251/ that mod makes it show in mhz |
| 19:51.46 | nvz | but you can use that in a terminal to see if the gov or max freq is changing.. the current freq should change anyhow based on load typically unless you are using a scheduler that keeps it balls to the wall |
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| 19:52.57 | nvz | kinda cool, I'm happy with it for a quick hack :P |
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| 19:54.00 | nvz | I will probably keep playing with it at some point and improve it to show other info |
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| 19:56.56 | martigan | Thanks so much. So now I will just monitor with this and see if they drop when I see the error in dmesg? And if not then I'll go from there. |
| 19:57.09 | martigan | Its working for me perfectly. |
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| 19:59.07 | nvz | martigan: you should be able to just simply cat /proc/kmsg to monitor for the error |
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| 20:02.35 | nvz | or use watch "dmesg|tail -n 10" |
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| 20:04.17 | nardev | hey guys, what is the "most official" #debian irc channel? where is the most ppl around? |
| 20:04.33 | Habbie | nardev, i'm pretty sure it's this one |
| 20:04.47 | nvz | nardev: the official channel is on irc.debian.org which points to irc.oftc.net but this is the larger and much older channel |
| 20:04.50 | Habbie | nvz, or dmesg -w |
| 20:05.10 | *** join/#debian paulgrmn (~paulgrmn@c-68-34-113-42.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 20:05.11 | nvz | nardev: I've been here since 2002 and Debian had switched to OFTC officially since then |
| 20:05.14 | Habbie | ah, thanks, did not know that there was a #debian on both sides |
| 20:05.24 | nardev | nvz, thnx. is there something like "connect" same channel name across several different servers? |
| 20:05.32 | nardev | does that exist in irc world? |
| 20:05.33 | *** join/#debian slon (~slon@ip-86-49-28-90.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 20:05.44 | nvz | nardev: you can connect to multiple servers I'm on both right now |
| 20:05.51 | nardev | nvz, : ) |
| 20:05.53 | nardev | thnx |
| 20:05.54 | Habbie | channel bridges exist but this channel does not have one |
| 20:05.57 | nvz | nardev: you will need seperate registration for OFTC |
| 20:06.00 | nardev | so the most dd's are there? |
| 20:06.24 | nardev | dd=debian developers |
| 20:06.26 | nvz | nardev: the DDs and all official channels listed on https://wiki.debian.org/IRC/ are on OFTC |
| 20:06.42 | nvz | nardev: but we here who remain on freenode are the original supporters and this is a larger channel |
| 20:07.02 | nardev | ah sorry, nvz, i forgot, debian is pretty well docuented. i guess we often forget that.. |
| 20:07.06 | *** join/#debian hamersaw (~hamersaw@c-73-181-53-196.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 20:07.10 | nardev | *documented |
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| 20:07.37 | nvz | nardev: places like #debian-mentors you see a high volume of DD and DM for example |
| 20:07.50 | nvz | but that and all official channels on the wiki are on OFTC |
| 20:08.49 | nardev | nvz, when you have some voting and similar things, it all happen on the official server/chan? |
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| 20:09.22 | nvz | nardev: they don't do project business on IRC afaik, they do all that either in person or via mailing lists |
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| 20:10.04 | nardev | nvz, thnx |
| 20:10.10 | ZaZaGX | i thought you meant DD command |
| 20:10.17 | nvz | there is no DD command |
| 20:10.20 | nardev | ZaZaGX, |
| 20:10.23 | nardev | :D |
| 20:10.35 | nvz | /bin/sh: 1: DD: not found |
| 20:10.39 | ZaZaGX | dd |
| 20:10.49 | nvz | linux is case sensitive |
| 20:10.58 | ZaZaGX | yeah |
| 20:11.04 | nvz | DD is Debian Devloper, DM is Debian Maintainer |
| 20:11.13 | ZaZaGX | i typed in a capital R to install something, it didn't find it |
| 20:11.14 | *** join/#debian ezcape (~ezcape@185.21.217.74) |
| 20:11.42 | ezcape | hi. suprised that my KDE install didn't have a display manager. The XFCE has. |
| 20:11.59 | ezcape | startx works fine though |
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| 20:12.33 | ZaZaGX | i thought DM is a Duegon Master |
| 20:12.34 | nardev | Is Haifa definitely the 2020 Dbconf? |
| 20:12.37 | *** join/#debian swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) |
| 20:12.39 | nardev | DebConf? |
| 20:13.02 | ZaZaGX | sorry Dungeon Master |
| 20:13.19 | nvz | ,i kdm |
| 20:13.20 | judd | No package named 'kdm' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 20:13.26 | nvz | hmm |
| 20:13.29 | *** join/#debian governor (~governor@41.190.2.106) |
| 20:13.29 | nvz | !kdm |
| 20:13.29 | dpkg | hmm... kdm is the KDE Display Manager - an even swankier version of xdm, for the K Desktop user. |
| 20:13.37 | nvz | ,v kdm |
| 20:13.38 | judd | Package: kdm on amd64 -- jessie: 4:4.11.13-2 |
| 20:13.49 | nvz | I didn't know they stopped developing KDM |
| 20:13.53 | ezcape | dpkg: boots into console |
| 20:13.53 | dpkg | ezcape: are you using Windows? |
| 20:14.04 | ezcape | dpkg: :p |
| 20:14.04 | dpkg | hmm... p is 1. piano (musical direction) 2. proton |
| 20:14.05 | karlpinc | nvz: It's probably in another package. |
| 20:14.17 | nvz | ,file bin/kdm |
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| 20:14.23 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 20:15.05 | ezcape | ls: cannot access '/bin/kdm': No such file or directory |
| 20:15.10 | nvz | says they use SDDM now |
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| 20:15.37 | nvz | ,why task-kde-desktop sddm |
| 20:15.53 | ezcape | I think I might file a bug report |
| 20:16.00 | nvz | ezcape: for what? |
| 20:16.14 | nvz | ,depends task-kde-desktop |
| 20:16.18 | martigan | nvz: thanks for everything, I'm currently monitoring. |
| 20:16.19 | judd | Packages task-kde-desktop and sddm in buster/amd64 are linked by 2 chains: task-kde-desktop ⶠsddm; task-kde-desktop ⶠkde-standard ⶠkde-plasma-desktop ⷠsddm |
| 20:16.20 | judd | Package task-kde-desktop in buster/amd64 -- depends: tasksel (= 3.53), task-desktop, kde-standard, sddm. |
| 20:17.00 | nvz | martigan: *shrugs* it seems like there is a bug there somewhere to me.. it shouldnt be saying its over and its fine in the same "breath" |
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| 20:17.25 | martigan | Ya, I didn't really think about it like that until you said that. |
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| 20:17.37 | nvz | ezcape: you did something wrong if you didnt get a display manager, the task-kde-desktop depends on sddm |
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| 20:18.24 | martigan | It hasn't given the warning in 30 minutes now either. Normally it's every 10 so who knows. I would like to find something that is fixable. lol As opposed to just bein like *meh* ignore those. |
| 20:18.35 | ezcape | nvz: No I didnt. Selected KDE. |
| 20:18.46 | nvz | ezcape: during the install? |
| 20:18.58 | ezcape | nvz: kde install hasnt got a display manager |
| 20:19.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1499] by debhelper |
| 20:19.04 | nvz | it does.. |
| 20:19.08 | nvz | I just proved it |
| 20:19.14 | ezcape | my netinstall didnt |
| 20:19.35 | nvz | did you actually have network available during install? |
| 20:19.37 | nvz | did it actually install KDE? |
| 20:19.45 | ezcape | can install Gentoo, so I should be able to install Debian :p |
| 20:19.48 | nvz | the netinst contains a base system and can't get the rest without network |
| 20:19.53 | ezcape | yeah |
| 20:20.21 | ezcape | wifi entered the pw |
| 20:20.50 | nvz | somewhere you did something wrong.. the installer would've gotten task-kde-desktop which depends directly on sddm, and kde-standard which depends on kde-plasma-desktop which recommends sddm |
| 20:20.56 | nvz | so you had sddm by two chains |
| 20:21.41 | nvz | if you didn't get it you did something wrong or there was an error you overlooked |
| 20:21.47 | ezcape | the install is very simple. no way I did something wrong, unless I had to tick off for installing a DM |
| 20:22.09 | nvz | no, the tasksel selecting KDE would've pulled task-kde-desktop |
| 20:22.23 | nvz | the other possibility is you have a graphics issue that prevented it from starting |
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| 20:22.26 | nvz | dpkg -l sddm |
| 20:22.26 | dpkg | ii sddm 1.3-1 nvz's private warez collection |
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| 20:22.35 | nvz | dpkg: shaddup |
| 20:22.35 | dpkg | No, I won't, you shaddup, you |
| 20:23.05 | kevinnn | hi everyone, I just upgraded to buster from stretch and a package I need to do my programming is missing |
| 20:23.17 | kevinnn | libwtdbomysql-dev |
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| 20:23.24 | kevinnn | specifically this one |
| 20:23.30 | kevinnn | how can I get this installed? |
| 20:23.31 | nvz | ,v libwtdbomysql-dev |
| 20:23.33 | ezcape | did a simple install with lvm2. Didnt uncheck other than "print server". |
| 20:23.33 | judd | Package: libwtdbomysql-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 3.3.3+dfsg-4.1; stretch: 3.3.6+dfsg-1.1 |
| 20:23.59 | nvz | dpkg, why isn't libwtdbomysql-dev in testing? |
| 20:23.59 | dpkg | libwtdbomysql-dev is not in testing for the reasons listed in https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libwtdbomysql-dev |
| 20:24.00 | kevinnn | right... so how can I get this installed on buster? |
| 20:24.13 | nvz | karlpinc: mysql was dropped for mariadb could be the issue |
| 20:24.22 | nvz | kevinnn: rather |
| 20:24.46 | kevinnn | nvz: okay, well is there a mariadb alternative? |
| 20:24.49 | nvz | kevinnn: in any case, a -dev package is just headers, you could install it from stretch or even build a chroot for your development |
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| 20:25.04 | nvz | kevinnn: idk first I gotta figure out what that package WAS |
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| 20:25.36 | nvz | ,i libwtdbomysql --suite stretch |
| 20:25.38 | judd | (info <packagename> [--arch <amd64>] [--release <stable>]) -- Show the short description and some other brief details about a package in the specified release and architecture. By default, the current stable release and amd64 are used. |
| 20:25.45 | nvz | ,i libwtdbomysql --release stretch |
| 20:25.46 | judd | No package named 'libwtdbomysql' was found in stretch/amd64. |
| 20:25.54 | nvz | ,i libwtdbomysql-dev --release stretch |
| 20:25.55 | judd | Package libwtdbomysql-dev (libdevel, extra) in stretch/amd64: MySQL/MariaDB backend for Wt::Dbo [development]. Version: 3.3.6+dfsg-1.1; Size: 84.2k; Installed: 277k; Homepage: http://www.webtoolkit.eu/ |
| 20:26.22 | nvz | ,i witty |
| 20:26.23 | judd | No package named 'witty' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 20:26.26 | nvz | ,i witty-dev |
| 20:26.27 | judd | No package named 'witty-dev' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 20:28.24 | nvz | kevinnn: it was unmaintained and dropped over a year ago according to 924770 |
| 20:28.26 | ezcape | nvz: it isnt possible to deselect installing a DM you know |
| 20:28.38 | nvz | #924770 |
| 20:28.39 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/924770 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: witty -- RoQA; unmaintained, RC-buggy, dropped from testing since 1.5 years, RC-buggy»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-03-17; last modified: 2019-04-16. |
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| 20:28.46 | martigan | nvz: is there a list of commands in this channel youre using? |
| 20:28.53 | nvz | ezcape: anything is possible |
| 20:29.03 | nvz | ezcape: what does dpkg -l sddm say? |
| 20:29.14 | kevinnn | okay well... maybe I should just download the .deb file and install? |
| 20:29.31 | ezcape | nvz: not by using the graphical installer! |
| 20:29.40 | karlpinc | martigan: The wiki.debian.org site has a dpkgbot page. There's also a judd page (but I forget it's name). |
| 20:30.27 | ezcape | Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold |
| 20:30.30 | ezcape | | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend |
| 20:30.30 | BCMM | you can also /msg dpkg help |
| 20:30.32 | ezcape | |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) |
| 20:30.34 | ezcape | ||/ Name Version Architecture Description |
| 20:30.36 | nvz | martigan: there are 4 main types of bot in this channel debhelper, an eggdrop bot for channel maint, it doesn't talk to you.. piggy which is logging for pisg which only talks to you if sussudio feels like being a smart ass.. then there is judd the Ultimate Debian Database bot which is powered by supybot, and the dpkg, apt, dselect which are in that order backups of our factoid bots powered by infobot |
| 20:30.36 | ezcape | +++-==============-============-============-================================= |
| 20:30.38 | ezcape | ii sddm 0.18.0-1 amd64 modern display manager for X11 |
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| 20:30.53 | nvz | ezcape: you have sddm, like I said, it probably just isnt starting due to an issue on your system |
| 20:31.01 | BCMM | !paste |
| 20:31.01 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 20:31.18 | ezcape | nvz: then there is a bug in the graphical installer |
| 20:31.28 | nvz | no, there isnt |
| 20:31.36 | ezcape | lol |
| 20:32.04 | ezcape | have you used that? it's difficult to do something wrong |
| 20:32.23 | nvz | the graphical installer is not responsible for whether or not your system has supported hardware.. it comes without warranty as permitted by applicable law |
| 20:32.38 | nvz | I've used it more times than I can count in almost 18 years |
| 20:32.46 | ezcape | I did the exatcly same install with XFCE and got a DM! |
| 20:32.50 | nvz | though it hasn't been around that long.. the graphical installer |
| 20:33.04 | nvz | YOU HAVE A DM! I've PROVED THAT multiple times |
| 20:33.10 | nvz | you have sddm installed |
| 20:33.14 | ezcape | nvz: buster and KDE? |
| 20:33.29 | ezcape | nvz: ok! BUT IT DOESNT START :p |
| 20:33.47 | nvz | I don't wear my underwear on my head, so no.. I haven't installed KDE |
| 20:33.55 | ezcape | lol |
| 20:33.57 | nvz | heh |
| 20:33.57 | ezcape | ok :p |
| 20:34.13 | ZaZaGX | nvz, is a debian maintainer? |
| 20:34.13 | nvz | do you actually want to look into why sddm isn't working for you? |
| 20:34.24 | nvz | ZaZaGX: no, I am just a user like the rest of you. |
| 20:34.30 | ZaZaGX | ohhh |
| 20:34.58 | nvz | ezcape: because personally if like you say, the lightdm works fine on the same hardware when you install XFCE and sddm doesn't that IS a problem.. |
| 20:35.19 | nvz | ezcape: but if you wanna look into this we gotta get past the whole bugs with the installer and you don't have a DM thing.. |
| 20:36.07 | nvz | if X starts at all, either directly with something like xinit or via another DM then its not a hardware issue |
| 20:36.23 | nvz | its more likely whatever the problem is, is in either SDDM itself or perhaps systemd |
| 20:36.59 | nvz | ezcape: systemctl status sddm | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 20:37.27 | ezcape | nvz: I fine with startx. |
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| 20:37.45 | nvz | well if startx works without errors then its not the kernel or xorg causing the problem |
| 20:39.08 | ezcape | I will reinstall with XFCE anyway |
| 20:39.10 | nvz | but I am willing to bet dollars to pesos that if I were to fire up virtualbox right now and run the netinstall and choose KDE it'll work fine |
| 20:39.24 | nvz | so if you're not interested in looking into this, neither am I |
| 20:39.55 | Habbie | can anybody recommend a GarageBand-like app for debian? something that can take input from a MIDI keyboard and has a bunch of instruments, etc. |
| 20:41.01 | nvz | Habbie: https://wiki.debian.org/Multimedia |
| 20:41.14 | ZaZaGX | i can only think of LMMS and Audacity |
| 20:41.41 | nvz | there are better tools out there for music production.. hydrogen, rosegarden, cheesetracker.. etc |
| 20:41.43 | Habbie | nvz, oh yes, nice |
| 20:41.59 | Habbie | i have Hydrogen and Rosegarden on my list already indeed |
| 20:42.18 | ezcape | nvz: thank you. But should really file a bug report. |
| 20:42.26 | Habbie | ,v cheesetracker |
| 20:42.27 | judd | No package named 'cheesetracker' was found in amd64. |
| 20:42.27 | ZaZaGX | Habbie, how would those two i mention? |
| 20:42.52 | Habbie | ZaZaGX, i will check out LMMS, i did not think audacity did MIDI but i will verify that |
| 20:42.53 | Habbie | ZaZaGX, thanks! |
| 20:43.09 | nvz | I guess cheesetracker development stalled ages ago :P |
| 20:43.27 | nvz | it was similar to audacity but more advanced for multi-layer track finalizing |
| 20:43.33 | Habbie | nvz, all i can find is a 2006 DSA :D |
| 20:43.48 | nvz | I personally used to fool with TerminatorX a lot.. I built many of digital turntables |
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| 20:44.19 | nvz | idk what'd replace cheesetracker as audacity isn't the same at all |
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| 20:45.04 | nvz | audacity is just a multi-track audio editor.. its not a finilization tool that can layer instruments easily and produce a track |
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| 20:46.07 | nvz | apparently cheesetracker is so old and long abandoned not even google can suggest an alternative :P |
| 20:46.56 | kevinnn | okay so now I am having a really odd issue. I spun up a VM running stretch and am trying to use the following package: libwt-dev |
| 20:47.07 | kevinnn | but I also need to use libssh-dev too |
| 20:47.17 | kevinnn | for some reason installing one will remove the other |
| 20:47.23 | kevinnn | this didn't happen before |
| 20:47.30 | nvz | kevinnn: a vm is overkill for development a chroot is usually sufficient |
| 20:47.48 | kevinnn | maybe I shouldn't have reverted to buster |
| 20:47.49 | nvz | kevinnn: however if you are running into issues like this you should seriously consider a plan for updating your codebase |
| 20:48.14 | nvz | cause sounds to me like you're depending on things that arent going to be used in the future |
| 20:48.18 | kevinnn | I know I should, but in the mean time there's got to be a way for me to have these both installed |
| 20:48.51 | nvz | kevinnn: a chroot is simplest, debootstrap can get you up and running in no time.. but when a project has this issue you either change the code or you pickup and maintain the dependencies |
| 20:49.15 | kevinnn | but this was working just fine prior to my upgrade to buster |
| 20:49.22 | kevinnn | I must have done something... |
| 20:49.37 | nvz | kevinnn: I talked recently with some guys working on a new browser called nomad, they are real GNU people who like guile and guix.. they had to pickup development of emacsy, a dependency of their project cause the development was stalled |
| 20:50.29 | nvz | kevinnn: you did, you failed to realistically code on something that is maintained.. and now you have the dilemma of either also develop/maintian the dependencies or use an old chroot and build software nobody will be able to use in the future |
| 20:51.02 | Habbie | kevinnn, libwt-dev and libssh-dev depend on different openssl versions; you cannot have -dev for different openssl versions installed at the same time (on debian) |
| 20:51.11 | Habbie | kevinnn, debian stretch shipping a mix of openssl version is a big pain |
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| 20:51.20 | Habbie | kevinnn, buster fixed that |
| 20:51.45 | nvz | witty has been stagnant, and was dropped if you really wanna keep using it, you need to head on over to OFTC and talk to folk in #debian-mentors about sponsoring you maintaining it |
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| 20:53.17 | kevinnn | guys is there really no way on stretch to have both packages installed at once? |
| 20:53.27 | Habbie | kevinnn, there is not |
| 20:53.30 | kevinnn | that just can't be right |
| 20:53.31 | steeee | can anyone help me find lazarUS |
| 20:53.37 | Habbie | kevinnn, as i said, it's a pain |
| 20:53.48 | kevinnn | why would debian have two packages on its repo that are totally incompatible |
| 20:53.57 | Habbie | that's not a useful question |
| 20:54.01 | Habbie | as no answer will help you fix your problem |
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| 20:55.46 | nvz | steeee: maybe jesus.. |
| 20:55.46 | *** join/#debian ZaZaGX (kenny@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/zazagx) |
| 20:55.59 | nvz | steeee: lazurus is online now, you can /msg them |
| 20:56.00 | ZaZaGX | wow, i was on the oftc, it has 600 ish nicks |
| 20:56.44 | martigan | nvz: Man I think it is a bug, put the cpu under a load after getting tired of waiting for the error and immediatly was able to produce the same results, throttling error and then all clear message in the same second. |
| 20:57.20 | steeee | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:57.49 | martigan | Have had the CPU under a load now for about 10 minutes temp is at 75c and using your script I'm not seeing any throttling. |
| 20:58.56 | nvz | martigan: yeah well I assumed as soon as you mentioned it that it was a bug even before seeing the errors cause I been using my machine for like 4hrs now and it was running all night while I slept before that.. and I haven't seen my CPU rise above 40C or the fan above 0RPM all day |
| 20:59.21 | nvz | martigan: and I'm on a 4th gen Core i5 |
| 21:00.10 | ZaZaGX | wow, thats pretty HOT in fahrenheit |
| 21:00.56 | martigan | nvz: Ok great, problem solved? I mean, well kinda. I would like to figure out how to report/fix/patch idk? |
| 21:02.06 | nvz | ZaZaGX: cpu specs usually consider hot around 75-95C and max spec around 95-115C |
| 21:02.18 | nvz | in computer terms 35-45C is cool |
| 21:02.20 | *** join/#debian deadmarshal (~deadmarsh@static.55.237.63.178.clients.your-server.de) |
| 21:02.53 | martigan | and its only at 75c due to running cat /dev/zero > /dev/null |
| 21:03.05 | martigan | The way I found on the googles to load the cpu. |
| 21:03.16 | deadmarshal | hi. is there a way to copy a small file from a read only mounted iso? how should I copy something from it? |
| 21:03.18 | martigan | I'm sure theres a better way, if someone wants to correct me. |
| 21:03.28 | nvz | heat affects both performance and longevity so staying cool is important for anything in a computer |
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| 21:03.50 | nvz | deadmarshal: using the cp command, or a file manager |
| 21:04.25 | nvz | deadmarshal: mount -o loop foo.iso /mnt; cp /mnt/smallfile /home/user/ |
| 21:05.04 | deadmarshal | thanks |
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| 21:05.52 | nvz | martigan: thats as good as any I suppose.. I typically do something like load JS hungry websites like maps.google.com and such |
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| 21:07.37 | martigan | https://paste.debian.net/1097267/ Now dmesg just keeps reporting all clear. How do I report a bug? If you don't feel like explaining I get it. I'll go looking. Is this even something that I should try to find the fix for? |
| 21:09.45 | nvz | martigan: well I would guess you'd want to file a bug against the kernel and you'd need to get sufficient information on the issue |
| 21:10.58 | nvz | martigan: however for me, I like to try narrow the bug down before reporting a kernel issue.. were it me, I'd try stretch's 4.9.0 and sid's 5.2.0 kernel and see if I can reproduce the issue in either of those |
| 21:11.18 | nvz | martigan: you can manually fetch the kernels from packages.debian.org and install them with dpkg or gdebi |
| 21:12.02 | deadmarshal | nvz: it doesn't copy instead shows a > sign in terminal |
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| 21:12.42 | martigan | Ok, so try those two kernels, try to reproduce the issue to see if it specific to the kernel I'm running. |
| 21:12.46 | nvz | martigan: http://packages.debian.org/linux-image-amd64 choose a branch like stretch or sid, then you'll see the actual package in the dependencies like dep: linux-image-4.9.0-5-amd64 click that, then click the download link at the bottom of the page and choose a mirror |
| 21:13.07 | nvz | martigan: yes, see if it was a bug introduced in buster or if it was fixed in sid.. |
| 21:13.24 | nvz | martigan: and if its fixed in sid, you can just keep using the 5.2 kernel I suppose |
| 21:13.35 | nvz | that should be backported eventually I would think |
| 21:14.13 | nvz | deadmarshal: the > is bash's way of telling you that the command isnt complete.. show the exact command you typed |
| 21:14.43 | martigan | I can switch kernels without reinstalling with dpkg gdebi your saying right? About to go learn how. |
| 21:14.49 | nvz | deadmarshal: like if I were to tell bash: for i in 1 2 3 4; do echo $1 it'll say > cause it's expecting a done to close the do.. |
| 21:15.19 | nvz | martigan: yes just dpkg -i foo.deb or gdebi foo.deb |
| 21:15.35 | nvz | martigan: gdebi is nice cause it'll resolve dependencies like apt and has a gui or command line operation |
| 21:16.10 | nvz | martigan: point here is you dont want to have a stretch/sid sources.list line to screw up your system.. you should be able to manually install either kernel without messing up your system if you fetch it manually |
| 21:16.51 | nvz | martigan: and they won't conflict so you'll still have your buster 4.19 kernel avaliable in grub.. though it may put it in a submenu I think is the default behavior now |
| 21:16.59 | martigan | and I dont need to edit sources.list when switching if I fetch it manually? |
| 21:17.25 | nvz | martigan: yes, do NOT touch your sources.list just fetch the package manually from packages.debian.org in your browser |
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| 21:18.09 | martigan | got it. About to give it a go. |
| 21:18.43 | coruja | apt install foo.deb will work too |
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| 21:19.40 | nvz | martigan: https://imgur.com/a/q30Hx8h |
| 21:20.14 | deadmarshal | nvz: it had problem with directory names actually, I changed the directory name and it worked. thanks |
| 21:20.56 | nvz | deadmarshal: once its mounted you can just use a GUI filemanger if you're having issues with the command line |
| 21:21.38 | deadmarshal | nvz: how can I make my gui root so I can copy something? |
| 21:22.16 | nvz | deadmarshal: you don't need to be root to copy something, and avoid running GUI as root |
| 21:22.44 | nvz | deadmarshal: first of all, the mount should be readable by you, and all that then matters is that the destination is writable |
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| 21:23.25 | martigan | I have done it before with sudo nautilus, I didn't know it was a bad idea though. lol |
| 21:23.28 | nvz | deadmarshal: however if not just use with -o loop use -o loop,uid=1000,gid=1000 that will make the mount owned by user 1000 which is typically the first user on a system |
| 21:23.50 | nvz | martigan: its dangerous.. and nautilus/caja have special tools for this, but its still not a good idea |
| 21:23.59 | deadmarshal | nvz: nice I'll do that |
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| 21:25.03 | nvz | martigan: caja-admin nautilus-admin adds context menus to open directories or files as root |
| 21:25.29 | nvz | but its not a good idea to fool around as root in the GUI |
| 21:25.48 | martigan | plays devils advocate |
| 21:25.50 | martigan | why? |
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| 21:26.10 | Habbie | hmm, now i have alsa, pulseaudio AND jack |
| 21:26.22 | Habbie | i'm not sure this is good |
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| 21:29.11 | useretail | when i try to execute vlc from kde menu, something shows for a second in the taskbar and then disappears. vlc from command line works, how to debug? |
| 21:29.39 | dak | maybe see how the command is being called from kde and start there/ |
| 21:29.40 | nvz | martigan: because mom said so |
| 21:30.22 | useretail | dak, i checked, it's /usr/bin/vlc, but running this from console works. anything else? |
| 21:30.55 | nvz | useretail: try see if you can either kill the panel and start that in a terminal to see if it gives output or attach and strace to it |
| 21:31.10 | nvz | useretail: also stop saying console if you mean terminal |
| 21:31.27 | nvz | the fact that kde calls the terminal emulator konsole doesn't help :P |
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| 21:31.34 | dak | no flags/ |
| 21:31.56 | nvz | console implies a virtual console, which is a kernel thing.. its outside X.. terminal implies x-terminal-emulator |
| 21:31.59 | dak | im not a kde user so |
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| 21:32.26 | useretail | nvz, that's what i tried, but in *terminal* i don't see any errors |
| 21:32.52 | dak | yah console = no x |
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| 21:33.00 | dak | the way all new users should learn |
| 21:33.39 | nvz | I'd spent a year or so running sid console only.. it didnt seem to affect my use very much, and I learned some things |
| 21:33.56 | dak | i spent 95-01 console only |
| 21:34.01 | dak | no windows no nothin no x |
| 21:34.02 | useretail | realizes he's a noob |
| 21:34.09 | dak | best thing ever |
| 21:34.16 | dak | s3 virg card would never work right |
| 21:34.19 | dak | blessing |
| 21:34.35 | nvz | sometimes I'd watch videos with -vo aa just for the fun of it |
| 21:34.41 | dak | yea |
| 21:34.49 | nvz | even though -vo vesa or -vo fb was doable |
| 21:35.02 | dak | i kept a 13' ctr just incase, used to use it for a syslog box but dunno grew up i guess |
| 21:35.29 | nvz | at a distance or if you squint, aalib looks pretty much the same |
| 21:35.44 | dak | useretail: just make sure you use linux/bsd 100% of the time no windows and youll learn |
| 21:36.16 | dak | and no vm shit |
| 21:36.56 | useretail | dak, sure bro, i use debian more than 7 years i guess |
| 21:37.03 | dak | good |
| 21:37.07 | dak | dont use ubuntu |
| 21:37.10 | dak | fuck them |
| 21:37.13 | useretail | lol |
| 21:38.13 | dak | for linux i tend to use debian or arch depending on he situation, learn bsd tho if you are into servers |
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| 21:41.28 | useretail | dak, debian covers 100% of my needs |
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| 21:41.47 | useretail | as desktop and as a server os |
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| 21:42.21 | dak | just becareful if its a multi user evn |
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| 21:43.11 | dak | and never let some irc yahoo on |
| 21:43.22 | dak | well... it can be interesting... but dont |
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| 21:47.10 | useretail | dak, better tell me how to debug the issue with vlc |
| 21:50.23 | dak | have it launch a terminal when you click the icon/ assuming kde has that and toss the verbose flag on vlc... |
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| 21:50.57 | dak | also might want to see if its running in the background? i mean that shoulda been first |
| 21:51.43 | dak | are you sure its calling the same binary? |
| 21:51.50 | dak | i think you should just add me to your box... |
| 21:51.58 | dak | thats a joke. |
| 21:52.15 | useretail | dam, zombie vlc process was the issue |
| 21:52.26 | useretail | thx |
| 21:52.33 | useretail | i was going nuts |
| 21:52.41 | dak | jfc 7 years and you dont check for that first/ |
| 21:52.59 | dak | im busting balls but now you know |
| 21:53.13 | *** join/#debian FuZi0N (~FuZi0N@unaffiliated/fuzi0n) |
| 21:53.23 | FuZi0N | anyone have issues with their hetzner nvme's? |
| 21:53.23 | FuZi0N | or nvme's in general |
| 21:53.23 | FuZi0N | Aug 24 02:24:37 feeder kernel: EXT4-fs error (device sda2): ext4_iget:4786: inode #27662460: comm python3: checksum invalid |
| 21:53.23 | FuZi0N | i keep getting these messages spamming in my ubuntu kvm shell |
| 21:53.24 | FuZi0N | and data is corrupted |
| 21:53.24 | *** kick/#debian [FuZi0N!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (flood) |
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| 21:53.49 | dak | your shis on its way out prob |
| 21:53.56 | FuZi0N | i opened a ticket with hetzner and they checked the hardware but didn't find any issues |
| 21:53.58 | FuZi0N | so now im stuck :/ |
| 21:54.44 | dak | back your data up |
| 21:54.52 | dak | rma that thing |
| 21:55.20 | FuZi0N | got it all backed up |
| 21:55.38 | FuZi0N | but they said the hardware tests and SMART tests aren't showing anything bad with the hardware |
| 21:56.04 | FuZi0N | nvme_core.default_ps_max_latency_us=5500 |
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| 21:56.15 | FuZi0N | i even tried adding this parameter to the kernel |
| 21:56.17 | FuZi0N | but no luck |
| 21:56.28 | dak | did you try to reformat the drive? |
| 21:56.49 | dak | try to do it in gpt not bios... i dunno just an idea |
| 21:57.04 | FuZi0N | i tried running fsck but didnt find any issues |
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| 21:57.51 | dak | ive had that error on ssd's that are about to die |
| 21:58.10 | dak | havent had a nvme die yet |
| 21:58.23 | FuZi0N | but SMART didn't reveal anything? |
| 21:58.25 | gjvc | interesting |
| 21:58.29 | dak | are you sure smart doesnt show any bad blocks/ |
| 21:58.39 | FuZi0N | not according to proxmox |
| 21:58.40 | dak | you saw this your self? |
| 21:59.08 | FuZi0N | i didn't see their hardware tests but i see the SMART reading in proxmox webui |
| 22:00.14 | dak | uhm k |
| 22:00.22 | dak | you should check smarttools out |
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| 22:00.34 | Bliepo | Do a long self test |
| 22:01.14 | FuZi0N | how? |
| 22:01.29 | dak | install it? |
| 22:01.35 | dak | www.smartmontools.org |
| 22:01.36 | FuZi0N | and how do smarttools differ from the reading built into proxmox webui? |
| 22:01.52 | dak | you dont need webui :) |
| 22:01.57 | Bliepo | Install smartmontools (sudo apt install smartmontools) then do a self test (sudo smartctl -t long /dev/sd<X>) |
| 22:02.11 | dak | i have never ued that proxmox crap |
| 22:02.24 | FuZi0N | lol why is proxmox crap? |
| 22:02.26 | dak | gui is for managers and bosses |
| 22:02.48 | dak | i dunno why not just use the tool that can tell you everything? some webui junk isnt going to have everything odds are |
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| 22:03.19 | tds | proxmox just runs smartctl for you and attempts to parse some of the output and display it in a pretty web ui |
| 22:03.38 | Bliepo | GUI´s can be nice, but don´t always give the same level of control, in addition to taking system resources and being potential security exploits |
| 22:03.45 | dak | ^ |
| 22:04.41 | useretail | Bliepo, +1 |
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| 22:06.29 | dak | didnt cockpit jut have some rce? |
| 22:06.40 | dak | and webadmin |
| 22:06.44 | dak | with the backdoor |
| 22:08.14 | FuZi0N | Bliepo how do i check the status? |
| 22:08.38 | Bliepo | sudo smartctl -a /dev/sd<X> |
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| 22:10.48 | FuZi0N | how do i know once it's finished? |
| 22:13.05 | Bliepo | It should report a percentage in the output - once it is done it will be listed in a list of completed self test |
| 22:14.14 | FuZi0N | I don't see the %... where is the list of completed self tests? |
| 22:14.24 | Bliepo | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/202400/smartmontools-how-can-i-know-if-there-is-any-smartctl-test-running-on-my-hard-d |
| 22:16.28 | useretail | FuZi0N, plz report here, i'm curious what's going on |
| 22:17.57 | dak | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/S.M.A.R.T. is a good write up |
| 22:18.11 | dak | the debian wiki has been down for me i dunno if im blocked |
| 22:19.12 | dak | https://github.com/papylhomme/diskmonitor for kde |
| 22:19.35 | Bliepo | Few days back it was down for me as well, haven´t checked since |
| 22:19.39 | FuZi0N | root@prox6node01 ~ # smartctl -a /dev/nvme0n1 | grep status |
| 22:19.39 | FuZi0N | root@prox6node01 ~ # |
| 22:19.47 | FuZi0N | didn't find anything... |
| 22:20.05 | Bliepo | ls /dev | grep nvme |
| 22:20.09 | dak | type df and see what your devices are |
| 22:20.11 | dak | or mount |
| 22:20.13 | dak | s |
| 22:20.16 | dak | cuz that isnt right |
| 22:20.23 | nvz | o.O |
| 22:20.26 | dak | it should be sd* |
| 22:20.40 | nvz | Bliepo: not ls /dev/nvme* |
| 22:20.43 | FuZi0N | root@prox6node01 ~ # ls /dev | grep nvme |
| 22:20.43 | FuZi0N | nvme0 |
| 22:20.43 | FuZi0N | nvme0n1 |
| 22:20.43 | FuZi0N | nvme0n1p1 |
| 22:20.43 | FuZi0N | nvme0n1p2 |
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| 22:20.51 | dak | wtf |
| 22:20.57 | FuZi0N | nvme0n1p3 |
| 22:21.03 | Bliepo | nvz, that woud have worked as well |
| 22:21.04 | coruja | !paste |
| 22:21.04 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 22:21.10 | FuZi0N | sorry |
| 22:21.16 | dak | do nvme0 i guess |
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| 22:21.31 | Bliepo | Also nvme drives will be listed as nvme<m>p<n> in /dev |
| 22:21.43 | dak | dunno on my arch laptop its sd* |
| 22:22.13 | dak | maybe this is a m2 not a nvme i dont even remember |
| 22:22.44 | Bliepo | Could also be a distro/version difference |
| 22:22.51 | FuZi0N | still can't find anything when i grep for status |
| 22:23.13 | Bliepo | And if you do smartctl -a /dev/nvme0n1 | less |
| 22:23.27 | FuZi0N | same |
| 22:23.45 | Bliepo | Can you do a paste? |
| 22:23.48 | Bliepo | Of the output? |
| 22:23.55 | dak | pastebin it |
| 22:23.58 | Bliepo | goes to check smartctl on his own nvme |
| 22:24.07 | dak | and dont grep anything |
| 22:24.18 | tds | you probably want nvme0 rather than nvme0n1? |
| 22:24.30 | FuZi0N | i tried both |
| 22:24.31 | tds | iirc nvme0 will be the drive, nvme0n1 is just a namespace |
| 22:24.48 | dak | and dont do -a do --all |
| 22:25.13 | dak | tds thats what i thought |
| 22:25.31 | Bliepo | Interesting, it does indeed not show the status of self test |
| 22:25.32 | dak | he will figure it out :) |
| 22:25.33 | FuZi0N | https://pastebin.com/RQGXnWWx |
| 22:26.19 | dak | FuZi0N: how old is this? |
| 22:26.21 | dak | Power On Hours: 5,234 |
| 22:26.37 | FuZi0N | server is less than a week old lol |
| 22:26.43 | dak | wtf |
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| 22:27.11 | dak | 19 power cycles tho |
| 22:27.22 | FuZi0N | what it means? |
| 22:27.25 | dak | it shoulda show you a lot more |
| 22:27.34 | dak | does doing --all intead of -a show more? |
| 22:27.59 | dak | smartctl --test=long /dev/nvme0 |
| 22:28.00 | tds | those should be the same, but -x / -xall might get you some more |
| 22:28.09 | tds | --xall even |
| 22:28.39 | dak | ya |
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| 22:29.17 | FuZi0N | same |
| 22:29.24 | Bliepo | From what I´m reading, self test using smartctl are not yet supported for nvme |
| 22:29.48 | Bliepo | Instead, the nvme program form nvme-cli should be used |
| 22:30.01 | dak | rma |
| 22:30.15 | Bliepo | Some devices support nvme smart-log-add /dev/cnme0 |
| 22:30.34 | tds | I missed a lot of the previous discussion here, but if you can take this drive out of active use, I'd be tempted to do a badblocks run on it |
| 22:30.40 | dak | if it new and its giving you problems already... return it. |
| 22:31.03 | FuZi0N | im asking hetzner to replace it |
| 22:31.20 | dak | goodluck they are fun to deal with from what i have heard |
| 22:31.20 | FuZi0N | but they said their "extensive" 14 hours hardware test didnt report any issues |
| 22:31.40 | Bliepo | Is that the only drive in the system? |
| 22:32.27 | Bliepo | If not, you could try filling it with data that you checksummed before, then checksumming again to check for mismatches |
| 22:32.32 | FuZi0N | i also have 2x4TB HDDs |
| 22:32.49 | tds | ^^ badblocks is a great tool for doing that |
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| 22:33.26 | Bliepo | tds, didn´t know there was a tool for that! |
| 22:33.46 | FuZi0N | i've used badblocks in the bast |
| 22:33.48 | FuZi0N | *past |
| 22:33.57 | FuZi0N | takes a very long time for HDDs |
| 22:34.02 | FuZi0N | never used it on a nvme though |
| 22:34.41 | Bliepo | Should be quite fast I´d think |
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| 22:36.37 | tds | poor estimation, say the drive can do 1GB/s read or write, badblocks should write then read back 4 times normally, so that's only around 2 hours (though does require wiping the drive in the process) |
| 22:37.44 | Bliepo | So it´s quite fast, just as I said |
| 22:37.50 | Bliepo | Takes days with a big HDD |
| 22:38.14 | tds | yeah |
| 22:38.32 | dak | ive done it on ssd's it isnt that long |
| 22:38.45 | tds | and that's pretty much assuming worst case, i'd expect nvmes to read/write a lot faster than that anyway :) |
| 22:39.13 | dak | hetzner is not the best and i doubt they will change it without some pushing |
| 22:39.40 | dak | is thi a seedbox? |
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| 22:44.05 | Lady_Aleena | Hello. How do I find out how many sessions I am running? I rebooted my computer and I got a message saying a stop job for session 2 was running, and I didn't even know I had 2 sessions running. |
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| 23:07.51 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: hey, it's 'loginctl list-sessions', and the loginctl has a bunch of other related commands |
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| 23:09.08 | Lady_Aleena | Like what? |
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| 23:10.31 | jmcnaught | 'loginctl sessions-status' for instance, try 'loginctl<TAB><TAB>' to get a sense of what it can do. |
| 23:10.47 | Lady_Aleena | Also, when I rebooted, I was told my computer was resuming from hibernation. |
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| 23:11.24 | jmcnaught | that message about hibernation is just a harmless bug |
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| 23:11.56 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, I rarely use more than 1 session. The last time I used it was when my gui froze and I wanted to restart my computer. |
| 23:12.23 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: I only have one session and it is also number 2, I wouldn't worry too much about it. |
| 23:12.46 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: on stretch loginctl used to list gdm3 as its own session, but not in buster. |
| 23:12.56 | Lady_Aleena | Okay. |
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