| 00:00.15 | swift110 | Lady_Aleena, the command line is awesome |
| 00:00.27 | swift110 | install figlet and you'll see |
| 00:00.28 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: those commands will only persist in that shell. In your ~/.bashrc you have those aliases already, you just need to un-comment them. |
| 00:00.42 | Lady_Aleena | swift110, it is also intimidating. |
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| 00:02.07 | Lady_Aleena | LtL, I put alias cp='cp -i', alias mv='mv -i', and alias rm='rm -iv' in .bash_aliases. |
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| 00:02.30 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: that'll work :) |
| 00:03.20 | Lady_Aleena | One of my favorite "aliases" is grepsort () { grep "$@" | sort; } |
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| 00:04.16 | Lady_Aleena | Those are two commands I almost always use together. |
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| 00:08.41 | Lady_Aleena | swift110, figlet looks ridiculous. |
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| 00:21.41 | swift110 | i know Lady_Aleena |
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| 00:22.18 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 00:31.24 | karlpinc | swift110: The netinstall boots, runs, and downloads only what you ask to be installed. Otherwise, to know how to use it I would suggest reading the debian install guide at debian.org. Especially when it comes to how to copy the netinstall image to bootable media. |
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| 00:33.49 | swift110 | oh ok cool karlpinc see I was under the impression that you could just have an internet connection and install directly from there |
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| 00:34.09 | swift110 | this is why it pays to ask questions even if they seem dumb |
| 00:36.11 | nvz | you could install directly from the internet if you have a means to boot the installer from the internet |
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| 00:38.59 | nvz | there used to be a boot.kernel.org but afaik the only ones still doing such a thing is the fedora project |
| 00:39.43 | nvz | only means of booting over the internet really is PXE which requires a wired network card with a PXE bios and a tftp server hosting an installer and a dhcp server that points to it |
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| 00:42.13 | SerajewelKS | apt-secure(8) says: "Since version 1.5 the user must therefore explicitly confirm changes to signal that the user is sufficiently prepared e.g. for the new major release of the distribution shipped in the repository (as e.g. indicated by the codename)." |
| 00:42.21 | SerajewelKS | boy would it be great if the manpage actually told you _how to fucking do that_ |
| 00:43.03 | nvz | it will let you know if its required |
| 00:43.31 | SerajewelKS | yep, it did |
| 00:43.42 | nvz | if you were using buster prior to its release, you'd see a message that says the apt suite has changed.. apt would just ask you a y/n about it apt-get would tell you what to do |
| 00:43.46 | SerajewelKS | told me to look at man apt-secure(8) |
| 00:44.00 | nvz | !apt suite changed |
| 00:44.00 | dpkg | If you were already using Debian 10 "Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use 'testing' in your sources.list, apt-get will complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change |
| 00:44.32 | SerajewelKS | see now that would be really helpful information to include in the output |
| 00:44.38 | nvz | its also the first bit of the topic of the channel |
| 00:44.58 | SerajewelKS | indeed and it's also a different repository, not related to stretch->buster |
| 00:45.07 | saul | nvz: how's it going ? :) |
| 00:45.28 | SerajewelKS | all apt-get update says is "N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details." which let me down the rabbit trail that lacks information about how to accomplish this |
| 00:45.47 | SerajewelKS | "look at this doc that doesn't answer your question" -- bit infuriating, really |
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| 00:46.48 | nvz | if you'd just used apt you wouldnt have that problem |
| 00:47.17 | SerajewelKS | ah right, we must all use the magical new tool to avoid confusing error messages. makes sense. |
| 00:47.44 | nvz | it has super cow powers |
| 00:47.49 | SerajewelKS | the warning message from apt-get should at least tell you what to do |
| 00:48.47 | SerajewelKS | _or_ the manpage it directs you to should give you some idea as well. apt-secure(8) pretty much just tells you that this "feature" exists which isn't much more helpful than the warning from apt-get, so i'm not sure why apt-get tells you to read the manpage. |
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| 00:49.43 | nvz | sees this as a good time to leave a poop |
| 00:50.25 | SerajewelKS | not trying to just bellyache. i'm an RTFM guy. it's just annoying when the FM doesn't actually have the information you're looking for and doesn't tell you where to look for it. |
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| 00:51.24 | SerajewelKS | maybe it's worth filing a doc bug |
| 00:51.52 | nvz | would be a tad more constructive than carrying on about a solved issue in a support channel :D |
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| 00:52.13 | nvz | we don't offer /that/ kinda support here.. we're not qualified |
| 00:58.35 | SerajewelKS | no i get it, not trying to rant at you in particular |
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| 04:44.37 | nvz | idk they're not cheap either if you don't have an m.2 or minipcie slot |
| 04:44.57 | nvz | I tried to find a normal desktop pcie one and they cost big bucks |
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| 05:52.26 | SerajewelKS | nvz: i found some pcie for decent prices but there's still the hotplug concern |
| 05:52.36 | SerajewelKS | i need to be able to swap out a bad disk without downtime |
| 05:53.09 | SerajewelKS | i don't know of many mobos that like it when you yank a pcie card |
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| 05:53.32 | Haohmaru | swap it after the clock falling edge and before the rising edge ;P~ |
| 05:53.44 | nvz | yeah idk.. for this channel asking production server type scenarios that arent normal support questions but more something that'd require experience with specific use cases, you're about 4-6hrs early. :D |
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| 05:54.28 | nvz | and really such things are better for mailing lists and forums as you'll reach a wider audience and get responses even after a question in irc is long out of the scrollback buffer |
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| 05:57.16 | SerajewelKS | if i go the sata route (safer, sata hotplug support is ubiquitous nowadays) then i need a sata card and also have to figure out how to get additional sata power connectors :/ |
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| 05:58.25 | SerajewelKS | i could also just live with the bad write performance :P |
| 05:58.27 | nvz | just getting the connectors is simple, they make Y cables that take one and make it two.. |
| 05:58.34 | nvz | having the wattage is a different story :P |
| 05:58.51 | SerajewelKS | the box already has four HDDs |
| 05:59.09 | SerajewelKS | if it can stand that it can probably stand two additional SSDs that are going to draw a fraction of one HDD |
| 05:59.28 | SerajewelKS | or at least i'd wager it |
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| 06:00.42 | SerajewelKS | PSU is 350 W |
| 06:00.49 | nvz | you could just do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YigN2mkQMPc :D |
| 06:01.52 | nvz | I swear that guy has to be on drugs |
| 06:02.02 | nvz | videos like that are my proof QED |
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| 06:06.40 | tallship | Just installed Debian 10 from netinst w/non-free for the firmware on a six year old hp2000 and installed gnome when the system came up it had hibenation issues and a blank screen. |
| 06:06.43 | SerajewelKS | the HDDs use ~5.3 watts peak so i think two SSDs wouldn't kill a 350 watt PSU |
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| 06:07.16 | jim | well one thing's for sure, a spinning hd will draw lots of current when it first starts, and less when it's running |
| 06:09.25 | jim | what else you got in that box? |
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| 06:11.50 | SerajewelKS | jim: besides motherboard and memory? |
| 06:12.04 | tallship | I tried inserting the UUID of /dev/sda3 into /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume and added that to grub and then updated the initramfs. that didn't work, and finally just did a systemctl mask all of the sleep hibernate, etc. There's nothing else on this laptop. completely fresh install and the only OS |
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| 06:13.24 | tallship | I'm wondering what to try next other than attempt to remove gnome completely and install plasma or Xfce or something. Any suggestions? |
| 06:15.09 | SerajewelKS | nvz: yeah seems like pcie may not be the way to go |
| 06:15.23 | tallship | I found a post to switch to another console and then back, and many people said that fixed it, but no joy. |
| 06:16.38 | tallship | everything including networking is fine it's just that the console with gnome is blank with those hibernation issues. What can I look at next, or do, to get a gui up? |
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| 06:18.59 | tallship | Even after doing a systemctl mask sleep.target suspend.target hibernate.target hybrid-sleep.target followed by systemctl restart systemd-logind.service I still have a blank screen on the gnome desktop. I'm not sure what to try next |
| 06:19.03 | SerajewelKS | nvz: also, don't forget to smash that subscribe button |
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| 06:19.44 | tallship | another reboot resulted in the same blank screen on the console with gnome |
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| 06:20.44 | nvz | SerajewelKS: yeah, I think I'll pass :P |
| 06:21.01 | nvz | isnt much of a subscriber |
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| 06:23.04 | tallship | echo "RESUME=a46b41b2-38c7-47f7-a1117-4da1f88d2dc9" | tee /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume followed by inserting GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet resume=a46b41b2-38c7-47f7-a1117-4da1f88d2dc9" into grub and then update-initramfs -u -k all was what I tried first |
| 06:23.16 | SerajewelKS | nvz: when he gets really excited he sounds like michael scott |
| 06:23.33 | tallship | before I tried to disable all of the hibernation and sleep |
| 06:24.02 | tallship | I'm not sure what to try next. Any ideas? |
| 06:25.23 | jim | SerajewelKS, yeah, what is there besides the drives, the mobo and the ram? |
| 06:26.03 | SerajewelKS | jim: nothing |
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| 06:26.59 | SerajewelKS | jim: it's a server, no fancy GPU or anything like that |
| 06:28.11 | SerajewelKS | i feel like 350W should be plenty to run four HDDs and two SSDs. though there's also three external USB HDDs attached. |
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| 06:46.49 | tallship | I guess no one's got any ideas how to correct the hibernation issue on the fresh install of debian w/gnome? |
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| 07:03.54 | jim | tallship, did it ever boot? |
| 07:03.56 | SerajewelKS | tallship: hibernation issues tend to be very hardware-specific... it's unlikely you'll get an answer especially as most of the USA is asleep right now |
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| 07:04.18 | SerajewelKS | tallship: perhaps the debian-user mailing list would be a better place to ask |
| 07:04.29 | jim | well should be asleep :) |
| 07:05.15 | SerajewelKS | jim: don't judge me! |
| 07:05.38 | SerajewelKS | i was hungry and made the mistake of trying to update my phone to android 10. totally not my fault. |
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| 07:06.24 | tallship | jim: yes it boots up just fine, and I'm hampered by the fact that it's my nephews laptop and my support is remote to him via chat lol. |
| 07:06.55 | tallship | SerajewelKS: Yes I'm finding that this is a real bear to track down. |
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| 07:08.26 | SerajewelKS | FWIW i've been a linux user since ~2001 and sleep/hibernate has _always_ been iffy |
| 07:08.38 | SerajewelKS | at least for me |
| 07:08.42 | tallship | Basically, it boots fine, and I've googled for solutions but the two main solutions that I posted above are not working (the UUID of /dev/sda3 (SWAP) in the resume file and grub), and disabling hybernation, which he doesn't care about anyway. |
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| 07:09.07 | SerajewelKS | i'd just disable hibernation if he doesn't care about it |
| 07:09.12 | SerajewelKS | it's not worth the headache |
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| 07:09.45 | SerajewelKS | it doesn't sound like the problem is the system unable to locate the swap volume |
| 07:09.52 | SerajewelKS | if that were the case you wouldn't even be getting to gnome |
| 07:10.04 | tallship | Yes I hate hibernation and sleep. Waking has it's own problems, time/date, etc., and I'm usually on a cli anyway so most machines of mine don't have even X installed. |
| 07:10.04 | SerajewelKS | the kernel would either boot normally (without resuming) or would panic |
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| 07:11.15 | SerajewelKS | it's more likely that there's some video driver issue |
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| 07:12.31 | SerajewelKS | anyway it's 3am and i should be sleeping |
| 07:12.50 | SerajewelKS | good luck. if turning off hibernation is an option then just do that. |
| 07:13.32 | tallship | I had him do the systemctl mask sleep.target suspend.target hibernate.target hybrid-sleep.target followed by systemctl restart systemd-logind.service but no joy |
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| 07:16.03 | tallship | I'm thinking systemctl isolate multi-user.target to switch to run-level 3 and then either startx (if that still works) or systemctl isolate graphical.target to go back to run-level five. he's on his way home and I'll resume trying to help him in a few. |
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| 07:19.50 | ws2k3 | tarzeau: but then ctrl wont work anymore in terminal |
| 07:20.42 | tallship | There is a plethora of video driver issues when https://www.screencast.com/t/LIwUqXFMP |
| 07:21.02 | tallship | Where could I find the firmware for that amdgpu? |
| 07:21.41 | tallship | You still up SerajewelKS ? |
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| 07:28.38 | pldiem | Hi |
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| 07:29.06 | pldiem | after yesterday's upgrade I can't get into login screen |
| 07:29.15 | pldiem | my system freezes during the boot |
| 07:29.29 | pldiem | usually on Gnome Display Manager |
| 07:29.43 | pldiem | any ideas what might have happened? |
| 07:30.42 | pldiem | I tried setting WaylandEnable=true |
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| 07:43.52 | pldiem | lightdm doesn't want to work either :/ |
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| 08:06.01 | pldiem | here's the failing part |
| 08:06.03 | pldiem | https://pastebin.com/KiQFTB75 |
| 08:06.23 | pldiem | can I downgrade nvidia or something? |
| 08:06.30 | nvz | !pastebin.com |
| 08:06.30 | dpkg | pastebin.com mangles input, takes forever to load, is full of js, often makes us enter a CAPTCHA to see your paste and fills the screen with ads. Please use a different site, like http://paste.debian.net/ (or give us the raw link like pastebin.com/raw/<identifier>, in other words pastebin.com/foo becomes pastebin.com/raw/foo) |
| 08:07.52 | pldiem | I am on terminal I had to use pastebinit to paste the log somewhere |
| 08:08.11 | nvz | pldiem: (apt policy; dpkg -l xserver* nvidia*;lspci -nn;dmesg)|nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 08:08.13 | pldiem | here I am writing from another computer |
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| 08:08.51 | nvz | afaik pastebinit defaults to paste.debian.net |
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| 08:09.56 | pldiem | you're right, I checked my alias 'pastebinit -b pastebin.com' |
| 08:10.01 | nvz | :P |
| 08:10.08 | pldiem | now I am quite sure that default didn't work for me |
| 08:10.14 | pldiem | back then |
| 08:10.21 | pldiem | maybe it will work now |
| 08:10.28 | pldiem | I will check later |
| 08:10.43 | nvz | yeah well pastebinit isn't required anyhow as I showed in the above command, netcat works just fine.. and is usually installed on most systems already |
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| 08:11.03 | pldiem | do you want me to run that command? |
| 08:11.19 | nvz | well I didnt type all that just for the fun of it :D |
| 08:11.36 | nvz | termbin gives smaller urls too |
| 08:11.47 | nvz | easier if you have to manually type them |
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| 08:13.00 | BCMM | pldiem: the debian pastebin doesn't like very short pastes, so it tends to fail when you test it, but then work when you actually use it |
| 08:13.18 | pldiem | https://paste.debian.net/1098866 |
| 08:13.20 | BCMM | (and pastinit doesn't give a useful message when short pastes are rejected) |
| 08:13.20 | pldiem | worked |
| 08:13.40 | pldiem | ok, got it |
| 08:13.53 | pldiem | can you take a lot at the issue now? |
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| 08:14.20 | nvz | I already looked at it, it was rather useless information which is why I'd asked for useful information |
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| 08:14.35 | nvz | the info on pastebin.com was just for future reference |
| 08:14.48 | nvz | we hate it.. for good reason.. and it shouldn't be used.. ever.. |
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| 08:16.30 | pldiem | https://termbin.com/abq7 |
| 08:16.47 | pldiem | I ran your command |
| 08:17.15 | nvz | well that shows the big picture.. not using debian stable (which is what we support here), tons of 3rd party stuff.. |
| 08:17.18 | pldiem | but some errors appeared on screen as well |
| 08:17.22 | nvz | yeah you probably have a broken upgrade :D |
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| 08:17.43 | nvz | pldiem: yeah I didnt sudo for dmesg for one thing, if you didnt run it as root, the dmesg isnt in there |
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| 08:17.58 | pldiem | yes, I am on testing or was, there changed some policy about it as far as i know |
| 08:18.31 | nvz | the dpkg -l didnt seem to work either and it should have |
| 08:18.39 | nvz | that doesnt require root permissions |
| 08:19.07 | pldiem | there is a message |
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| 08:19.18 | pldiem | no matches found: xserver* |
| 08:19.42 | pldiem | maybe that's why there are no results |
| 08:19.47 | nvz | it also looks like there is possibly optimus on that system |
| 08:19.58 | pldiem | yes, there is |
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| 08:20.27 | pldiem | but it worked until yesterday's upgrade |
| 08:20.50 | nvz | pldiem: https://termbin.com/tqo2 is that dpkg command on my system |
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| 08:21.25 | nvz | that one wasnt real important though unless we were gonna run this way down.. really the first command apt policy puts it beyond the scope of this channel.. |
| 08:21.48 | nvz | the dmesg one though would likely show more of the problem |
| 08:22.00 | nvz | cause I'm sure the kernel had something to say about that |
| 08:22.07 | nvz | !testing |
| 08:22.08 | dpkg | Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <bullseye>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and ask me about <testing faq> <buster->bullseye> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical! |
| 08:22.21 | pldiem | I did run just dpkg -l |
| 08:22.33 | pldiem | and there are xserver entries |
| 08:22.41 | pldiem | dpkg -l xserver |
| 08:22.42 | dpkg | No packages found matching xserver |
| 08:22.45 | pldiem | returns one entry |
| 08:22.54 | pldiem | I have some issue with asterisk |
| 08:23.12 | nvz | pldiem: here we recommend people use stable.. and you obviously if you ran into this issue and can't debug it beyond what you have, this is one reason why.. its also still early after a release and testing is probably still a bit slushy |
| 08:23.20 | pldiem | I can grep |
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| 08:24.05 | jim | you might try dpkg --get-selections | grep xserver |
| 08:24.27 | nvz | testing isn't some place we hide all the cool shiny new toys from the kids.. its intended for use by people who are actually testing the distro and reporting bugs and such |
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| 08:26.00 | pldiem | https://termbin.com/nx1s - probably not useful anymore |
| 08:26.23 | pldiem | hmm... any recommendations what could I do? use stable? |
| 08:27.06 | nvz | if you had it working, that suggests your hardware is supported and you were able to get it working.. if you want it to stay that way, then yeah.. use stable :D |
| 08:27.30 | nvz | if you wanna debug a testing breakage go to irc.oftc.net join #debian-next and compile a useful log the way I showed you |
| 08:28.44 | nvz | the apt policy was to see what kinda weirdness you may have done (you're using testing and a bunch third party repos), the dpkg -l xserver* nvidia* was to see what versions specifically of the related packages to the breakage, the lspci -nn was to see what hardware was releated to the breakage, and the dmesg was to see what they kernel side had said about the issue |
| 08:28.56 | klys | why is oom-kill disabled by default, and the oom-kill function of the magic sysrq key disabled by default? |
| 08:29.10 | pldiem | eh I supposed to be working right now :/ |
| 08:29.34 | nvz | pldiem: you mean this machine is something you use for WORK? |
| 08:29.42 | pldiem | yeap |
| 08:29.47 | nvz | @.@ |
| 08:29.58 | nvz | all the more reason you shouldn't be using testing on it :P |
| 08:30.39 | pldiem | but on stable I had so old packages for example git, that I just had to switch |
| 08:30.53 | pldiem | I was so behind ;) |
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| 08:31.52 | klys | and /bin/login loads, does not show "login: ", and times out after 60 seconds |
| 08:32.30 | nvz | pldiem: there are other ways of dealing with that.. testing isn't the first resort |
| 08:33.00 | nvz | pldiem: you should've come here for support with those kinda issues.. the kind of issue you brought to us just makes us feel sorry for you and tell you to go install stable or go to #debian-next |
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| 08:33.11 | nvz | ,v git |
| 08:33.13 | judd | Package: git on amd64 -- jessie: 1:2.1.4-2.1+deb8u6; jessie-security: 1:2.1.4-2.1+deb8u7; stretch: 1:2.11.0-3+deb9u4; stretch-security: 1:2.11.0-3+deb9u4; stretch-backports: 1:2.20.1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1:2.20.1-2; bullseye: 1:2.23.0~rc1-1; sid: 1:2.23.0-1; experimental: 1:2.23.0+next.20190816-1 |
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| 08:36.26 | nvz | klys: oom killer can unnecessarily kill processes when there isn't a real oom situation |
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| 08:36.52 | nvz | klys: debian follows a sane defaults approach to things and would disable anything that could possibly cause harm by default |
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| 08:37.53 | nvz | klys: "Unfortunately, it is possible that the system is not out memory and simply needs to wait for IO to complete or for pages to be swapped to backing storage. This is unfortunate, not because the system has memory, but because the function is being called unnecessarily opening the possibly of processes being unnecessarily killed." https://www.kernel.org/doc/gorman/html/understand/understand016.html |
| 08:38.15 | klys | well there's this problem with /bin/login when thrashing. |
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| 08:38.38 | nvz | there is usually a problem with everything when its OOMing |
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| 08:39.01 | ksk | agreed with that statement :) |
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| 08:39.36 | ksk | Could you not impose a memory limit on $daemon via systemd unit though nowadays - if you have something in your setup that tends to eat too much memory |
| 08:39.45 | klys | you shouldn't agree with oxymorons and say you're rayional |
| 08:39.49 | ksk | If you cannot tell the app in the first place, of course |
| 08:39.55 | nvz | you're not suppose to OOM, is kinda the point.. if its PEBCAK/PICNIC, replace user and bang head off keyboard to continue.. |
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| 08:42.37 | pldiem | nvz: thanks for your help and explanation |
| 08:42.43 | nvz | this is all just sounding like a MISPWOSO Herring Sandwich experiment |
| 08:43.33 | nvz | pldiem: if you need a newer package.. especially if its some simple tool like git, not like an entire DE or something, getting it is trivial without upgrading your whole system to testing and interrupting your work when it breaks |
| 08:45.12 | nvz | pldiem: you check backports.org, if its not there, then you can try a ssb, if thats not feasible you could do a schroot, some things you can even manually install from another branch without issues, there are many options.. these are only a few.. you come here and say hey.. I need a newer foo for my work.. and we help you figure it out |
| 08:45.42 | pldiem | I understand, how safe would be downgrade to stable right now? |
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| 08:46.02 | nvz | if you needed say a 5.x kernel and newer firmware.. those could be manually fetched from packages.debian.org and safely installed with dpkg -i for example cause they have no depends outside stable |
| 08:46.24 | nvz | pldiem: downgrading isn't and has never been supported |
| 08:46.47 | nvz | there have however been proposals for how to attempt it, but I would just reinstal personally |
| 08:46.52 | Haohmaru | you should've taken the blue pill |
| 08:47.39 | nvz | pldiem: if you wanted to do this later, and just try get the system back up and running by rolling back what b0rked in the upgrade, you really should be going to OFTC and joining #debian-next |
| 08:48.04 | nvz | pldiem: and figuring out what EXACTLY was upgraded (hint: /var/log/apt/history.log) |
| 08:48.09 | pldiem | I am there, but no answer yet |
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| 08:48.32 | nvz | nobody asked anything in #debian-next |
| 08:48.54 | nvz | I know.. because _I_ am there :P |
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| 08:49.08 | Haohmaru | you must be in two parallel realities |
| 08:49.11 | pldiem | hmm... |
| 08:49.30 | klys | /connect irc.oftc.net |
| 08:49.35 | klys | hmm |
| 08:49.47 | pldiem | wompa [~wompa@h-192-176.A400.priv.bahnhof.se] entered the room. |
| 08:49.58 | pldiem | for example I was able to see who entered the room |
| 08:50.09 | pldiem | and that's after my messages |
| 08:50.20 | Haohmaru | pldiem #debian-next is not on freenode but on oftc |
| 08:50.48 | pldiem | (10:34:52 AM) Topic for #debian-next set by pabs!~pabs@pabs.user.oftc.net at 04:54:45 AM on 08/28/2019 |
| 08:51.18 | pldiem | I am pretty sure that's the correct one |
| 08:52.05 | pldiem | nvz: I can see your messages |
| 08:52.24 | Haohmaru | maybe you're banned or quieted or something |
| 08:52.35 | pldiem | probably |
| 08:52.38 | nvz | the last thing said before what I said was like 5 hours ago |
| 08:52.41 | Haohmaru | no idea about oftc's policy |
| 08:52.55 | Haohmaru | or a packet broke ;P~ |
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| 09:37.29 | tallship | SerajewelKS: Hey thanks for that suggestion/hint - I went and got the firmware for the amdgpu and installed that and most (but not all) of the listings of missing firmware items were alleviated, GNOME came right up after a reboot. |
| 09:38.09 | tallship | So tomorrow my nephew will go to class as a new Linux convert. |
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| 09:39.28 | tallship | He already had a bit of experience from me having him run Slackware64 Live, and his friends were all in awe, had never seen anything like Plasma before lolz, but I figured for a real install he should run Buster. |
| 09:39.43 | tallship | Thanks again, hope you get the message :) |
| 09:41.12 | tallship | is afk |
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| 10:12.04 | talin | hello. does debian intend to switch to netplan, like ubuntu? |
| 10:12.25 | tarzeau | no |
| 10:12.43 | tarzeau | it is available though since buster |
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| 10:13.09 | talin | argh, so they deviate and i'll have to deal with both |
| 10:13.20 | tarzeau | no you can just install it |
| 10:13.23 | tarzeau | and use it |
| 10:14.11 | talin | yeah, i just like to use the stuff that debian comes with by default... or what most distros use, rather. but ubuntu at work, and they always roll something that doesn't work on other distros (ufw, netplan...) |
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| 10:14.32 | tarzeau | talin: don't foget, pulseaudio, systemd... |
| 10:15.00 | tarzeau | and snaps! |
| 10:15.20 | dunz0r | Is there a way to "reconfigure" the entire install? I'm creating a template for installs in my vmware-cluster, don't want shared ssh-keys, system-uuids etc |
| 10:15.33 | talin | tarzeau: right! |
| 10:15.41 | dunz0r | I know how to do it all by hand, but is there some sort of way to "redo" the startup configuration? |
| 10:16.01 | dunz0r | As in set the system "uninitialized" so that it reconfigures itself on the next startup |
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| 10:57.31 | dunz0r | cloud-init seems to be able to do the job |
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| 11:31.06 | mystic | sum debian up in a word |
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| 11:32.00 | humpled | supercalifragilisticexpialidocious |
| 11:32.17 | mystic | more complicated than debian itself... i like it |
| 11:32.21 | abdulocracy | works |
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| 11:32.50 | mystic | well. works for people who know how |
| 11:33.39 | mystic | for me the word is: uncharted |
| 11:33.44 | jelly | !why debian |
| 11:33.44 | dpkg | Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also http://www.debian.org/intro/free http://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/talks/why_debian/ http://www.aboutdebian.com/ . As an added bonus, you get to ask questions in #debian. |
| 11:33.49 | jelly | !why not debian |
| 11:34.00 | mystic | !why maybe debian |
| 11:34.12 | jelly | there is no maybe. |
| 11:34.27 | humpled | asks for one word, says a word is too complicated, sorry! |
| 11:35.02 | humpled | don't you know the song, it teaches you to not be afraid of things you don't understand yet |
| 11:35.03 | mystic | i said i liked it |
| 11:35.26 | jelly | dpkg: ping |
| 11:35.26 | dpkg | Sorry jelly, you're not online. |
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| 11:35.49 | mystic | who wants to set up debian for me ? |
| 11:36.29 | jelly | mystic: no problem! Is $100/hr acceptable hourly rate for you? |
| 11:36.51 | mystic | if you wish t opay me for learning, sure.. i'll take on board what you are shwoing me |
| 11:37.24 | jelly | usually teaching is what gets paid, not learning |
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| 11:38.05 | mystic | if you want me to learn u better pay me |
| 11:38.46 | jelly | mystic: this channel is more oriented towards specific problems, eg "I tried to install Debian X to system Y and stumbled onto issues Z and Q." |
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| 11:39.25 | mystic | ok.. 'show me how to work debian' not specifuc enough ? |
| 11:39.30 | jelly | no. |
| 11:39.36 | jelly | work what? |
| 11:39.45 | jelly | !handbook |
| 11:39.46 | dpkg | The Debian Administrator's Handbook is at http://debian-handbook.info/ and can be browsed, bought and downloaded. From Debian 7 "Wheezy" onwards, it can also be installed from the debian-handbook package. Also ask me about <books> <docs>. PDF at https://debian-handbook.info/download/stable/debian-handbook.pdf |
| 11:40.05 | mystic | Read the handbook to me :P |
| 11:40.09 | jelly | mystic: read a book, like ^ |
| 11:40.35 | jelly | if you can't read you're in the wrong place and we can't help you |
| 11:40.38 | mystic | its too daunting.. difficukt to use |
| 11:40.55 | jelly | pick a specific task and ask about that. |
| 11:41.17 | jelly | "I can't install, you won't believe what happens: " |
| 11:41.26 | jelly | "I can't mount a usb disk" |
| 11:41.30 | mystic | whats the benefit of debian over ubuntu? can i make it look/run liek ubuntu gui, but it will be more stable? otherwise whats the point? |
| 11:41.47 | Haohmaru | you mean crapbuntu? |
| 11:42.01 | mystic | whys is crap. works wel lfor casual users.. stable enough |
| 11:42.12 | Haohmaru | of course it will work |
| 11:42.13 | mystic | how is that crap? not everyone is a tech whizz, or has tome to be one |
| 11:42.18 | mystic | time* |
| 11:42.50 | Haohmaru | ubuntu is sorta like.. canonical forked debian and rubbed their underwear in it |
| 11:43.07 | Haohmaru | don't quote me on that |
| 11:43.16 | mystic | i like thier style.. looks good.. easier to use. cant see a real problem myself. what is the problem exactly/? |
| 11:43.38 | Haohmaru | if it works for you - none |
| 11:43.47 | mystic | u knwo what i mean |
| 11:43.56 | mystic | why people saty its crap.. just cos is popular? |
| 11:44.11 | Haohmaru | for me it's because of the above ^ |
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| 11:44.30 | mystic | dont understand |
| 11:45.07 | dunz0r | mystic: It does things in weird ways, for no reason other than to be different |
| 11:45.12 | Haohmaru | if i keep going i might get banned |
| 11:45.26 | mystic | try not to be so aloof and cryptic... just asking ewhy people say use debian , its 'better' |
| 11:45.34 | dunz0r | Ubuntu is probably good for desktops, if you don't like fiddling, but I don't like it on servers. |
| 11:45.46 | dunz0r | Unstable ever-changing versions of stuff |
| 11:45.54 | mystic | i dont even understand servers.. i just use laptop |
| 11:46.01 | mystic | seems to work well |
| 11:46.13 | mystic | cant see any issue. and i dont hafe to bury me head in terminal |
| 11:46.19 | mystic | \spyware? i dont know. is there? |
| 11:46.25 | dunz0r | That's not a drawback, about the terminal |
| 11:46.27 | Haohmaru | just a lil bit |
| 11:46.33 | Haohmaru | from time to time |
| 11:46.37 | dunz0r | I more or less live in a terminal, lol. |
| 11:46.51 | humpled | listen to this: https://www.shazam.com/charts/top-200/world then come back and tell us popular things are the best |
| 11:47.07 | mystic | most asual never use terminal.. or never wannt to.. at least ubuntu brings masses over from windows to linux. without it, i bet many would not even try linux. |
| 11:47.12 | dunz0r | But mostly. Debian has stable versions and proper testing. |
| 11:47.34 | Haohmaru | humpled number 5 there ain't too bad |
| 11:47.36 | mystic | thats not alwasy the case humpled/.. some things are popualr cos thry work and most people can use them |
| 11:47.44 | karlpinc | And so debian does not require fussing. Once it works, it works. |
| 11:47.44 | humpled | heheh |
| 11:47.47 | dunz0r | I don't give a flying frick if it brings people over from windows. I'd rather not tbh. Means "useability" is more important than making it good and secure |
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| 11:48.11 | dunz0r | Debian is popular because it's good. Ubuntu is popular because it's easy |
| 11:48.11 | mystic | u need to fuss to use debian in the first place |
| 11:48.20 | dunz0r | And tbh, debian isn't very fussy. |
| 11:48.21 | mystic | ubuntu is godo also.. i think you are being unfair |
| 11:48.32 | mystic | i cant evne use debian for a millisecond without help |
| 11:48.35 | mystic | wont even work |
| 11:48.41 | dunz0r | Install it with the graphic installer and tick the "install graphic desktop enviroment" and you're done. |
| 11:48.42 | karlpinc | mystic: Mostly, you need to use the unoffical installer with the non-free firmware included. Then it either works or does not. |
| 11:48.44 | mystic | im a casual user.. |
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| 11:48.54 | humpled | using a mouse is like going to a foreign country and just pointing at things you want to eat while moving your mouth |
| 11:49.00 | humpled | learn the lingo or go home! |
| 11:49.04 | mystic | whats wrong with that humpled? |
| 11:49.06 | mystic | rubbish |
| 11:49.13 | mystic | some of us dont have time, or the desire too |
| 11:49.15 | humpled | heheh |
| 11:49.25 | dunz0r | mystic: Read the manual and learn stuff instead of relying on the good of others to fix your crap. |
| 11:49.26 | mystic | some of us have other things to do |
| 11:49.37 | mystic | do you know how to build a car/. ? no but you ptobably have one |
| 11:49.56 | Haohmaru | yeah, ubuntu is trying to steal windows users.. sorta.. that's good, sooner or later they figure there are other distributions and toss ubuntu for something else |
| 11:49.59 | Haohmaru | so that's good |
| 11:50.02 | mystic | im often recommended linux dunz... if im told that in the first place i simply would not even bother useing it |
| 11:50.04 | dunz0r | mystic: That's why you buy a car, and not go ask your mechanic friend to do everything for you |
| 11:50.07 | mystic | so that doesnt was hwith me wither |
| 11:50.11 | humpled | it's all good :) |
| 11:50.15 | karlpinc | mystic: Some of us do too. It's not our job to convince you what's best for you. |
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| 11:50.28 | nvz | we have a social channel, its #debian-offtopic |
| 11:50.35 | humpled | aww |
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| 11:51.03 | mystic | ok dunzar.. i bet you do everything urself? live in the wild on berries and rabbits, draw your own water, make your own electric.. otherwise.. stop judging me |
| 11:51.07 | Haohmaru | nvz guess what, i'm still rsync'ing |
| 11:51.10 | mystic | ridiculous |
| 11:51.11 | Haohmaru | :~( |
| 11:51.25 | mystic | linux is damn hard to learn adn most people are not interested or dont have the time |
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| 11:51.41 | dunz0r | mystic: No, I pay people to give me food and water. But I don't go pester people because I'm lazy. |
| 11:51.46 | humpled | how many days now Haohmaru ? |
| 11:51.52 | Haohmaru | 3 |
| 11:51.53 | dunz0r | mystic: Then most people probably shouldn't use it. |
| 11:51.57 | mystic | fuk all to do with being lazy |
| 11:52.04 | nvz | Haohmaru: how much data is it? are you hitting I/O errors? |
| 11:52.12 | mystic | everything to do with it constantly being recommended 'my granny can use it' |
| 11:52.20 | Haohmaru | a few gigabytes |
| 11:52.29 | mystic | She me people like you, with your attitude, and id never even try if in the first place |
| 11:52.35 | nvz | Haohmaru: surely it has to be throwing read errors like crazy |
| 11:52.36 | mystic | show me * |
| 11:52.44 | Haohmaru | yeah.. some files are copied with a few KB/sec |
| 11:52.57 | Haohmaru | i don't see the errors anywhere |
| 11:53.01 | ratrace | mystic: are you going into car mechanics channels and bitch there that you can't build your own car? no? then stop doing the same here. if you have a support question, we'd gladly help. otherwise, debian-offtopic has cookies. |
| 11:53.05 | nvz | Haohmaru: they'd be in dmesg probably |
| 11:53.05 | dunz0r | mystic: I don't want more linux casual linux users :P |
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| 11:53.11 | mystic | fuk off ratrace |
| 11:53.13 | Haohmaru | i'm running rsync from lxterminal from debian10-live-lxde |
| 11:53.16 | mystic | im in a conversatio nabout it |
| 11:53.19 | dunz0r | Idgaf about casual users. I want my OS to be good. |
| 11:53.20 | ratrace | mystic: bend over |
| 11:53.22 | mystic | others are also answering me if u hadnt noticed |
| 11:53.30 | nvz | ratrace: please don't antagonize |
| 11:53.31 | zmoo | I think I broke my build system installing Llvm and Boost |
| 11:53.43 | nvz | mystic: please try to be on topic, we have users needing support here |
| 11:53.55 | zmoo | clang++ now trips catch2 with some strange error |
| 11:54.05 | dunz0r | mystic: You don't want to be a help vampire. http://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/ |
| 11:54.06 | mystic | ok, thats your selfish attitude and you are entitled to it dunz.. jusrt dont judge 99'5 of the populous who dont have tiem to learn that shit |
| 11:54.21 | mystic | go fuj ureself dunzor |
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| 11:54.31 | ratrace | trololo |
| 11:54.35 | mystic | fuking aloof linux fan boy .. what a suprise |
| 11:54.39 | mystic | sack of shit |
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| 11:54.50 | dunz0r | Haha |
| 11:54.52 | dunz0r | Wtf. |
| 11:54.54 | ratrace | roflmao |
| 11:55.14 | Haohmaru | <FUUUUU.jpg> |
| 11:55.17 | zmoo | error here> http://ix.io/1UkJ |
| 11:55.19 | dunz0r | I simply do not care about popularity. I'm a linux user because it's good and you get to do cool stuff if you work with it :D |
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| 11:55.43 | Haohmaru | and i'm trying to escape from crapdows |
| 11:55.58 | ratrace | popularity is irrelevant here. they came bitching here that linux is too hard for them as if it's our fault. welll... ho-kay. then uhhh don't use it? |
| 11:56.01 | Haohmaru | luckily, linux is getting bett0r and bett0r |
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| 11:56.31 | dunz0r | Haohmaru: Yeah, that too. It's hard though. It's bloody everywhere. Even though I'm a "linux specialist" I still have to take care of god damn windows servers :( |
| 11:56.45 | Haohmaru | nonono |
| 11:56.53 | Haohmaru | i'm just a user, don't have no servers |
| 11:56.57 | dunz0r | Windows as a server OS is like using a chop stick to eat soup |
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| 11:57.51 | Haohmaru | i mean, i have a bunch of computer-related hobbies and i've used windows in the past (because.. it came with the computer and i had no idea what i'm doing..) |
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| 11:58.37 | Haohmaru | but as crapdows progressively becomes moar crap, and linux gets richer.. |
| 11:58.49 | dunz0r | I like doing "server-stuff" as a hobby, as well |
| 11:58.51 | Haohmaru | still a few things tie me onto crapdows |
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| 11:59.12 | humpled | that's a horrid portmanteau |
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| 11:59.21 | dunz0r | Linux is still behind on the software front, but nowadays everything I need works, some stuff needs Wine though. |
| 11:59.21 | ratrace | destiny ties ME to windows. |
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| 11:59.33 | humpled | if we're going to be critical, can we at least be tasteful |
| 11:59.34 | dunz0r | FL Studio, mostly |
| 11:59.46 | dunz0r | And Linux doesn't have any useable CAD-programs, yet. |
| 11:59.48 | Haohmaru | dunz0r same.. a DAW |
| 12:00.04 | dunz0r | Haohmaru: FL Studio works really well in Wine. Same performance as on Windows. |
| 12:00.05 | Haohmaru | nah, it has a few.. librecad, kicad |
| 12:00.16 | dunz0r | KiCAD is great, but it's just for PCB-design |
| 12:00.19 | Haohmaru | yeah but.. wut about all muh VSTs |
| 12:00.25 | dunz0r | I've used that myself to do PCBs |
| 12:00.27 | Haohmaru | i don't want to deal with wine |
| 12:00.47 | dunz0r | FreeCAD is the best I've encountered, but it was a bit eeeh last time I tried. |
| 12:00.49 | Haohmaru | dunz0r it's not just for PCB design, it's an EDA |
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| 12:00.57 | Haohmaru | has schematics, ngspice.. |
| 12:01.09 | dunz0r | Haohmaru: Well, schematics and everythig. I know. I've produced PCBs with it a lot of times :) |
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| 12:01.16 | dunz0r | Lot as in ~3-4 |
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| 12:01.41 | Haohmaru | hm, i don't count mine, but they must be tens |
| 12:01.49 | Haohmaru | i mean maybe over 30 |
| 12:02.02 | Haohmaru | wowz |
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| 12:02.08 | dunz0r | KiCAD beats the crap out of Eagle CAD at least :) |
| 12:02.19 | dunz0r | (once you unlearn all the bad habits from Eagle) |
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| 12:02.29 | Haohmaru | yeah, luckily the first EDA i picked was kicad at version 4 |
| 12:02.47 | Haohmaru | before that i knew about eagle and was probably gonna go that route (luckily i didn't) |
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| 12:03.56 | mystic | you fucking peices of shit. I was just asking why debian is considered 'better' than ubuntu then some of ure pussys try ripping into me. thanks for the reasonable responses haohmaru.. pretty much all the rest of you can eat shit til you lear nto be civil. lousy motherfuckers |
| 12:04.29 | dunz0r | mystic: No one is saying it's better. I just don't like Ubuntu. Don't take offence lol. |
| 12:04.44 | dunz0r | mystic: Also NO ONE cares what OS you use. Use what you like, it's your choice. |
| 12:05.01 | mystic | dont pretend you werent being a dick earlier... eat shit |
| 12:05.10 | ratrace | jelly: ? |
| 12:05.13 | dunz0r | mystic: No you! |
| 12:05.15 | Haohmaru | hm? |
| 12:05.16 | mystic | dont need to be conversing with asshats like you |
| 12:05.25 | Haohmaru | mystic calm down first |
| 12:05.30 | dunz0r | mystic: Why are you continuing though? |
| 12:05.38 | dunz0r | FreeCAD might've gotten better though, there's been huge improvements everytime I've tried it. |
| 12:06.04 | Haohmaru | i gotta learn freecad too |
| 12:06.09 | dunz0r | mystic: I'm going to put you on ignore now, just so you now. So I won't be able to see your insults anymore |
| 12:06.12 | mystic | ive no issue with you haohmaru.. shame others cant man up and be civil in here too |
| 12:06.16 | Haohmaru | i launched it a few times, barely made a cube x_x |
| 12:06.19 | mystic | fuk off dunz u cunt |
| 12:06.27 | mystic | have that last one on the house |
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| 12:06.57 | ratrace | the idiot is complaing others aren't "civil", yet is running a foul mouth and swearing all over the place. LOL |
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| 12:07.08 | dunz0r | ratrace: That's what ignore is for. |
| 12:07.11 | mystic | just givin it back ratrace u little shit |
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| 12:07.16 | humpled | at least we know what it is now |
| 12:07.16 | Haohmaru | mystic most distributions have "live" images, you burn it onto a USB stick or CD/DVD, and you boot from it, then you can sorta test things around |
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| 12:07.30 | Haohmaru | try for example debian-live-LXDE |
| 12:07.32 | OerHeks | man i got kicked once over posting an ubuntu wiki.. |
| 12:07.39 | mystic | yea haohmaru, i tried it.. debian seems more daunting.. in the set up procedure |
| 12:07.42 | dunz0r | Angry, bed-wetting, weaklings that can't accept that people disagree with them, like mystic, should be ignored. |
| 12:07.43 | OerHeks | do you guys take this piece of crap? |
| 12:07.45 | mystic | put me off a bit |
| 12:07.55 | OerHeks | mystic, stop the flameware, dude |
| 12:08.10 | Haohmaru | then use ubuntu untill it starts bothering you too much (if that ever happens) |
| 12:08.11 | dunz0r | That's how you silence trolls. With silence. :) |
| 12:08.15 | mystic | sure.. when these people stop thowing slurs and insults my way too |
| 12:08.28 | dunz0r | /ignore add mystic for weechat and /ignore mystic for irssi |
| 12:08.31 | mystic | see, he's stil lgoing.. btu thats ok... coz hes a debian fan ! |
| 12:08.50 | ratrace | dunz0r: nah, it's fun |
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| 12:09.55 | mystic | 'weakling' say sthe uy who lives on a terminal. i did 50 knuckles press ups earlier dunz.. enough to smash your idiot mouth to pulp... but of course, i,m not violent |
| 12:10.05 | mystic | sick of these people |
| 12:10.28 | Haohmaru | mystic read what i said ^ and calm down |
| 12:10.32 | mystic | ok |
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| 12:11.43 | dunz0r | Anyone have any ideas on how I could "deconfigure" an installed system on boot without writing a script that does it? Cloud-init doesn't seem to be what I want... Like, reconfigure all the packages, like one does on initial setup |
| 12:11.51 | dunz0r | Must be some dpkg-reconfigure magic I can use... |
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| 12:13.53 | humpled | use a live iso? |
| 12:14.23 | nvz | dunz0r: what is it you're actually trying to accomplish here? Having the kind of first-run an OEM windows install has? |
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| 12:15.30 | dunz0r | humpled: No, then I'd have to install everything. I'm making a template for a Vmware cluster |
| 12:15.55 | dunz0r | nvz: Something like that. Generating new ssh-keys/sysids/whatever |
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| 12:16.10 | nvz | dunz0r: thats all user based.. is that all you're interested in is the user? |
| 12:16.45 | dunz0r | nvz: No... that isn't user-based. The ssh-host-keys used by the sshd of course :) |
| 12:16.59 | nvz | oh, you didnt say host keys :P |
| 12:17.05 | dunz0r | And the id in /var/lib/dbus/machine-id |
| 12:17.09 | dunz0r | nvz: I didn't. Sorry! |
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| 12:17.30 | nvz | I was just thinking this is the kinda thing /etc/skel is for |
| 12:18.02 | dunz0r | Bah. I'm making this more complex than necessary. I'll just write a systemd-unit that runs on boot and then disables itself. |
| 12:18.18 | nvz | idk your issue then seems to be spotty and you'd need a custom script to address the issues |
| 12:18.49 | nvz | I don't offhand know of anything that does this sort of thing |
| 12:18.51 | dunz0r | nvz: Yeah. A script/systemd-unit that launches a script seems to be the most KISS solution. |
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| 12:19.49 | nvz | it does seem like an interesting idea though.. you want to clone machines and individualize them on the first run |
| 12:19.55 | dunz0r | Cloud-init can do it, but then I'd still have to set the hostname and stuff by hand. So a script that gets launched once, asks questions and then disables itself is what I'll use |
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| 12:20.22 | nvz | I do a lot of cloning but I don't run them all at once.. I just clone installs to test things then delete them |
| 12:21.03 | dunz0r | We do clones of templates and then run a few commands to regenerate systemd-id/machine-d/ssh-keys, and I'd like to get rid of those steps |
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| 12:21.48 | dunz0r | Setting hostname involves a few steps, like editing /etc/hosts and so on. |
| 12:21.58 | dunz0r | Not to mention setting IP |
| 12:22.05 | dunz0r | So an interactive script it is then! |
| 12:22.09 | nvz | it looks like cloud-init can do it all |
| 12:22.29 | dunz0r | nvz: It's "hands off". Means I'd have to supply it with a file with all the info in |
| 12:23.10 | dunz0r | Which I can't, for various reasons. |
| 12:23.51 | nvz | yeah well then all you'd need is to write something to provide that file |
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| 12:24.47 | dunz0r | nvz: Oh! Good suggestion. No need to reinvent the wheel. I could just write something that generates the file and then uses cloud-init to do everything :) |
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| 12:25.46 | nvz | yeah, its written in python and if your need is large enough, you may as well build upon it |
| 12:25.55 | nvz | make your life easier going forward |
| 12:26.51 | nvz | I was looking at it and as far as things it can do, it can use chef recipies, run arbitrary commands, write arbitrary files, it can do any and everything the only feature its missing is an interactive mode to supply the information |
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| 12:27.44 | nvz | and really if python isnt your thing, that bit could be written in anything really all cloud-init wants is a config file to read from |
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| 12:28.16 | nvz | it seems to have a provision to run things on first boot.. so just use that bit to run a bit to provide it with further configuration |
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| 12:30.24 | nvz | looks like the configuration is in YAML |
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| 12:32.20 | nvz | dunz0r: looks like you'd want to maybe provide as much of a stock config as you can then use the vendor data to override it as needed |
| 12:32.49 | nvz | dunz0r: and I'm still just glancing it over but I'd imagine you could use its first run command provision to hook something to provide the vendor data |
| 12:34.51 | dunz0r | nvz: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well. Already configure everything that's "shared" between machines with Salt. |
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| 12:35.06 | dunz0r | Users, settings, DNS, installed useful packages etc |
| 12:35.27 | dunz0r | If there's more than one machine with the same setup, it becomes a salt-state :) |
| 12:35.35 | SpeakerToMeat | Hello all. |
| 12:36.36 | nvz | yeah I don't know about the salt stuff.. I hadn't gotten that far into it yet :P |
| 12:37.16 | ratrace | dunz0r: SaltStack rules |
| 12:37.31 | SpeakerToMeat | Question, in case anybody knows, I want to "build" the nvidia 430.40 packages on buster. I pulled the already made package from sid, and all went well (I expected it to... though once I try to install I'll probably find I need to tweak the requirement versions on the packages a little)... the thing is, I wanted to see which versions I have installed on my buster already to install these same packages, but I |
| 12:37.33 | SpeakerToMeat | see I have the amd64 and i386 packages for all of them installed (I'm multiarch).... but the sid package only comes with, and builds, the amd64 version of the driver. |
| 12:37.59 | SpeakerToMeat | Does anybody know if 430.40 exists on i386 at all? if so, any existing/easy way to "build" the i386 packages too? |
| 12:38.16 | dunz0r | ratrace: Has saved me so much time. Now I can ruin everything at once instead of just one machine at a time! |
| 12:38.16 | SpeakerToMeat | Or am I comming to the end days of my multiarch build? |
| 12:38.23 | ratrace | dunz0r: heh |
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| 12:39.00 | SpeakerToMeat | dunz0r: Why SaltStack over puppte/chef/ansible? |
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| 12:40.00 | dunz0r | SpeakerToMeat: Ansible logs in on the machine over ssh instead of talking to a "server" on the other side. Puppet/chef is really complex and bloaty. |
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| 12:40.16 | ratrace | !simple sid backport |
| 12:40.17 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
| 12:40.20 | ratrace | SpeakerToMeat: ^^^ |
| 12:40.33 | dunz0r | SpeakerToMeat: And, at the time I decided on saltstack for the infrastructure here at work, ansible wasn't more than a glorified ssh <host> runcommand :) |
| 12:40.47 | ratrace | Ideally, you'd want to build only minimum packages from sid, using whatever is possible of deps from stable |
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| 12:41.44 | ratrace | My problem with Ansible is that it is dog slow. Like unbearably slow. |
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| 12:42.19 | ratrace | and certain bugs exist that are very annoying, eg. inability to handle multiple blkids with same UUID |
| 12:42.38 | ratrace | (which makes btrfs handling automation rather hard, for example) |
| 12:43.05 | SpeakerToMeat | ratrace: ?? |
| 12:43.36 | dunz0r | ratrace: That too, saltstack isn't super-fast either, but I can just leave the job running on the salt-master and look at the output when it's done |
| 12:43.43 | ratrace | SpeakerToMeat: recommended way to port nvidia from sid? |
| 12:44.01 | SpeakerToMeat | ratrace: So far I don't see i386 package in sid... Thanks but I'm not exactly askign how to backport here (though 'll check that) |
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| 12:44.27 | SpeakerToMeat | dunz0r: Ok, thanks |
| 12:44.29 | nvz | SpeakerToMeat: we just handled a huge breakage this morning in #debian-next related to that version in bullseye |
| 12:44.51 | nvz | SpeakerToMeat: seemed to be centered around libnvidia-glcore |
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| 12:45.16 | nvz | SpeakerToMeat: wasn't a package dependency kinda thing, it was just causing X to not start |
| 12:45.18 | SpeakerToMeat | nvz: Hmmm ouch |
| 12:45.32 | SpeakerToMeat | nvz: So I should be carefull with 430.40.... |
| 12:45.35 | nvz | SpeakerToMeat: https://paste.debian.net/1098866 was the original complaint |
| 12:45.40 | SpeakerToMeat | sigh, the trouble is I kind of need it. |
| 12:45.44 | SpeakerToMeat | nvz: Will check thanks. |
| 12:45.59 | SpeakerToMeat | It seems... seems... from digging on the nvidia site, that yeah, there's no i386 for that package.... |
| 12:46.07 | SpeakerToMeat | this is the end road for my multiarch it seems |
| 12:46.20 | ratrace | SpeakerToMeat: i'm sure it's not that soon |
| 12:46.34 | SpeakerToMeat | ratrace: ? |
| 12:46.40 | ratrace | the end of the road for multiarch |
| 12:46.49 | SpeakerToMeat | Not for multiarch but for MY multiarch |
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| 12:47.07 | SpeakerToMeat | I need 430.40 and it's amd64 only :( |
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| 12:47.12 | nvz | SpeakerToMeat: fwiw that user was on multiarch |
| 12:47.37 | SpeakerToMeat | Yeah this will only limit the i386 opengl requiring packages. |
| 12:47.43 | SpeakerToMeat | those that do not require opengl will still work |
| 12:48.28 | SpeakerToMeat | I wonder if I can do an lxc based install and isolate this.... |
| 12:48.29 | ratrace | hmmm indeed nvidia.com offers no downloads for i386 beyond 390.x |
| 12:48.56 | SpeakerToMeat | I sadly do not have enough hdd/space, to install a second OS which would be my best choice here. |
| 12:49.19 | SpeakerToMeat | nvz: Thanks for the warning |
| 12:49.35 | ratrace | but wait, that doesn't mean anything. debian supports 418 in stable, for which there's obviously multiarch support |
| 12:49.47 | SpeakerToMeat | ratrace: ... you're right |
| 12:50.07 | ratrace | so I'm guessing this is temporary situation? |
| 12:50.24 | ratrace | or try to backport yourslf, but eh... I'm not sure it's straightforward to backport multiarch |
| 12:50.42 | ratrace | at any rate !ssb is recommended over installing prebuilt from sid |
| 12:52.07 | SpeakerToMeat | I'm not installign prebuilt... I'm using dget on the dsc |
| 12:52.35 | SpeakerToMeat | but this is also a special case as there is very little source to build on these packages, afaik |
| 12:54.30 | ratrace | there's the dkms and xorg driver, and somewhere into that goes the big blob from nvidia tarballs |
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| 12:55.33 | nvz | ratrace: http://trulyfallacious.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/then-a-miracle-occurs-logic.jpg |
| 12:55.44 | ratrace | heh |
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| 13:19.14 | jaggz | what's a good linux file browser that also shows source code in a side-panel? |
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| 13:19.44 | nvz | eh? |
| 13:19.57 | nvz | you mean a good editor with a file browser in a side panel? |
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| 13:20.38 | nvz | cause I dont think there is any file browser on any platform that shows source code in a side panel |
| 13:20.52 | Haohmaru | does he mean a proper filebrowser, or he trying to reinvent an IDE with a project tree |
| 13:21.06 | SpeakerToMeat | I think he means a file browser with a text preview pane |
| 13:21.08 | jaggz | nvz, I'm not 100% sure yet. The directory structure is kind of deep and should be displayed nicely, but .. not sure. :) |
| 13:21.12 | RNM | just use chrome and press f12. you will get what you want |
| 13:21.29 | jaggz | I have various projects in different languages, and they all relate to each other. I'm perusing the files and want to view them well |
| 13:21.57 | Haohmaru | wouldn't a tabbed text editor work? |
| 13:22.07 | Haohmaru | or an IDE |
| 13:22.13 | nvz | like geany |
| 13:22.22 | Haohmaru | yeah, geany or code::blocks |
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| 13:22.49 | nvz | I use geany occasionally.. personally I'm not a fan of fancy editors they just do crap that annoys me |
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| 13:23.01 | jaggz | will try geany |
| 13:23.03 | nvz | but sometimes when you're working with a lot of files it helps.. |
| 13:23.10 | jaggz | I normally just work in vim |
| 13:23.14 | nvz | it will also remember the files you had open when you close it |
| 13:23.31 | jaggz | hmm |
| 13:23.41 | Haohmaru | i use geany as a smart text editor that can also syntax highlight codez.. but i do my akchual coding in code::blocks |
| 13:24.12 | jaggz | if dolphin had a file-preview pane it might have sufficed |
| 13:24.30 | nvz | I am fine coding in nano if all I want is some highlighting, if I want search/replace and a few basic things, pluma works |
| 13:24.53 | Haohmaru | i gotta have my "Build" buttenz |
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| 13:26.41 | jaggz | one of the things I want is the instant display of the file contents |
| 13:26.44 | jaggz | without hitting enter on files |
| 13:26.55 | Haohmaru | now now.. much fancy |
| 13:27.26 | jaggz | does that make sense? that's why I was asking about the file browser thing .. in dolphin, even if you just mouse over the file, it'll udate a file-info panel.. but it doesn't seem to have a contents-preview panel |
| 13:27.35 | jaggz | Haohmaru, lol.. it's a lot of stuff to go through |
| 13:27.39 | deadmarshal | hey, my Tor doesn't work. it is running and I put bridges in, I don't know what is the problem. I didn't mess with config files, before it worked just fine, now it doesn't. |
| 13:27.45 | Haohmaru | well, i remember at one time a DE or filebrowser was actually rendering icons for the text files that actually had the contents.. |
| 13:28.16 | SpeakerToMeat | jaggz: Use an ide... right now my favorite for most stuff is Visual Studio Code |
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| 13:29.04 | jaggz | I'll try it.. I recently installed it actually |
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| 13:31.06 | jaggz | SpeakerToMeat, so far so good! shows the files right away, re-using the same tab. an intuitive double-click will open it in a new one |
| 13:31.54 | jaggz | arrowing through the file list doesn't work for that preview. it requires the click for the preview. that would have been a big plus |
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| 13:50.36 | nvz | I just tried every filemanger IN debian and several that werent and the only one that looked like it may have a file preview wont run on debian because it insistes on a glibc and qt5 just every so slightly newer than the one in debian |
| 13:52.04 | jelly | which debian? |
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| 13:52.44 | Haohmaru | which filemanager? |
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| 13:53.00 | Haohmaru | nvz spit the details, boi! don't make us ask you |
| 13:53.16 | nvz | its called shallot.. I tried all three versions of deb packages they had, none of them will work |
| 13:53.32 | nvz | the older two complain about some odd python 3.6 so file I can't find anywhere |
| 13:53.58 | ratrace | ranger ftw. but, alas, terminal thingy... |
| 13:55.09 | jelly | nvz: kde's Dolphin has a literal Preview button in stretch |
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| 13:55.18 | nvz | https://pseudopolis.eu/wiki/pino/projs/shallot/gallery0/screenshot.z.2.png |
| 13:55.29 | nvz | seems to be a preview to me.. idk |
| 13:55.37 | nvz | dont that interested in such a thing |
| 13:56.08 | touki | Is there a way to get a human-readable output of 'sensors'. I can't for sure all the time figure out the names like 'TH0A' |
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| 13:56.46 | jelly | nvz: it also does a preview on the right pane on mouseover. |
| 13:57.10 | jelly | honestly that sounds like a security issue for me, but hey |
| 13:57.14 | jelly | quits the thing |
| 13:57.24 | nvz | jelly: I'm not interested.. it was jaggz looking for such a thing |
| 13:57.44 | nvz | I was just curious if there was such a thing since I said it sounded ridiculous and probably didnt exist |
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| 13:58.07 | jaggz | got the preview in dolphin working.. it's not gonna work though -- need to use an ide it seems. |
| 13:58.33 | jelly | jaggz: ^ preview. Of images at least. What kind of document fails to generate a preview on mouseover? |
| 13:59.02 | nvz | seems he wants to just scroll through source code and see the code in different files |
| 13:59.19 | nvz | which is why I'd suggested geany |
| 13:59.38 | jaggz | yeah.. with the ability to examine the code more in detail quickly too.. I might try geany as well.. right now I'm trying visual studio code |
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| 14:01.12 | nvz | we it me looking for such a ridiculous thing, I'd want it to rather than show a preview, make it understandable :P |
| 14:01.39 | nvz | would help with C, C++, Java, Pascal, Obfusticated Perl.. et |
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| 14:02.44 | nvz | might as well only show code worth looking at too while we're at it |
| 14:03.54 | Haohmaru | turns nvz 180° around |
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| 14:04.12 | nvz | isn't gay |
| 14:05.35 | jaggz | nvz, yeah, that's why the ide is preferable I think |
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| 14:07.49 | Peyam | hi |
| 14:07.56 | jaggz | hi |
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| 14:08.47 | Peyam | I have an laptop and I usually have the it closed. so I see everything on se secondary screen which is bigger then my laptp's screen. |
| 14:08.53 | Peyam | what hapen |
| 14:08.56 | Peyam | I have an laptop and I usually have the it closed. so I see everything on se secondary screen which is bigger then my laptp's screen. |
| 14:09.00 | Peyam | so.. |
| 14:09.14 | jaggz | nvz, does geany let you ctrl mouse or -= to zoom in and out (change font size)? vs code does ctrl -= but it scales the entire UI.. so irritating :) |
| 14:09.41 | Peyam | now I suspend the computer and the screen goes black. When I come back some times later and wake the computer up it still shows black |
| 14:09.56 | Peyam | so I need to do systemctl restart lightdm.service |
| 14:09.59 | jaggz | Peyam, i'm not familiar with multiple displays in linux.. when it's black, is it showing on the 2nd screen? |
| 14:09.59 | Peyam | everytime. |
| 14:10.18 | Peyam | jaggz, both screens go blank |
| 14:11.26 | jaggz | Peyam, how do you run systemctl? ssh in? |
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| 14:11.46 | Peyam | ctrl + alt + f1 |
| 14:11.48 | jaggz | or blindly at a text console? |
| 14:11.57 | jaggz | does the text console show up or is it blank also? |
| 14:12.03 | Peyam | it shoes up yes |
| 14:13.04 | jaggz | Peyam, I'm not yet sure of the solution, but the first thing I'd do, myself, is use screen or tmux within X11. Then I'd attach to that from c-a-F1 |
| 14:13.14 | jaggz | then I'd use xrandr to examine the displays |
| 14:13.23 | jaggz | xrandr --query |
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| 14:13.44 | Peyam | jaggz, I used xrandr to select the output, it said "can not open displat" |
| 14:14.04 | jaggz | Peyam, yeah, that's why I said to use screen or tmux -- so that'll have your display setup in it |
| 14:14.09 | Peyam | the query shows all of them when everything works well but when blank screen sppears then it shows nothing |
| 14:14.18 | jaggz | you might be able to just do DISPLAY=:0 |
| 14:14.21 | Peyam | jaggz, how do I do that? |
| 14:14.24 | jaggz | export DISPLAY=:0 |
| 14:14.29 | Peyam | now? |
| 14:14.38 | Peyam | should I do it now? |
| 14:14.42 | jaggz | sure, try it.. from the text terminal give it a shot |
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| 14:15.00 | jaggz | and run an X program. X sets up some other stuff too though so I'm not sure if just setting DISPLAY will be enough.. but try it |
| 14:15.32 | jaggz | x11 programs look at that variable to know what X server to try to connect to |
| 14:15.46 | Peyam | jaggz, just wrote that in terminal. nothing happened |
| 14:15.51 | jaggz | like: export DISPLAY=192.168.1.100:0 |
| 14:15.56 | greycat | you should almost never need to set the DISPLAY variable by hand; if you're doing that, something weird is afoot |
| 14:15.56 | jaggz | (don't type the above) |
| 14:16.15 | jaggz | greycat, yeah, he's leaving X and running from a terminal outside of X :) |
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| 14:16.28 | jaggz | Peyam, after you type that, now you try xrandr --query |
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| 14:17.14 | jaggz | greycat, eventually he's going to need to find a solution to why his displays are going blank |
| 14:17.32 | Peyam | http://paste.debian.net/1098915/ |
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| 14:19.24 | greycat | OK, so he has a single X session that he has already started, and it flipped out, and he went to tty1 and wants to diagnose/fix it from outside. All right. In that case, which is definitely "something weird afoot", export DISPLAY=:0 would be appropriate. |
| 14:19.54 | jaggz | greycat, thanks :) |
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| 14:20.25 | greycat | If there are multiple X sessions, then :0 might not be the right one, and he would need to know which one to target. |
| 14:20.37 | jaggz | Peyam, so enable two of my displays (I said I wasn't familiar.. but I did do this a few years ago).. |
| 14:20.50 | jaggz | I have some shell scripts like: xrandr-both-displays |
| 14:20.56 | jaggz | xrandr --output DVI-I-1 --same-as HDMI-0 --mode 1280x1024 |
| 14:21.04 | jaggz | (that's cuz that display was only 1280x1024 |
| 14:21.26 | Peyam | jaggz, I had a key shortcut for it it sometimes worked and sometimes not |
| 14:21.38 | rjdp9736 | I am on Debian 10 nginx 1.16, and nginx seems to return partial responses, from curl I am getting: "curl: (92) HTTP/2 stream 1 was not closed cleanly: INTERNAL_ERROR" and in Chrome console I get "net::ERR_SPDY_PROTOCOL_ERROR 200" |
| 14:21.39 | rjdp9736 | few days ago I rebooted the server and issue went away, now its started happening again, seems to issue of temporary memory issue , I am not sure which memory or filesystem location I should cleanup to fix it |
| 14:21.39 | rjdp9736 | In nginx error log I get " [error] 12381#12381: *594597 readv() failed (104: Connection reset by peer) while reading upstream " |
| 14:21.39 | rjdp9736 | if I hit the upstream I dont get this issue, happening only when I am hitting via nginx also this is happening in 50% of requests and generally happens when resp body is big (~ 14 kb) I have gzip on |
| 14:21.49 | jaggz | in your case, it appears you might be able to type: xrandr --output DP-1 --same-as eDP-1 |
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| 14:22.50 | dunz0r | rjdp9736: Is it a physical server? And if it isn't, how does the RAM usage look(free -m)? |
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| 14:24.52 | rjdp9736 | @dunz0r, its EC2 |
| 14:24.52 | rjdp9736 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:24.52 | rjdp9736 | Mem: 16046 11699 730 40 3615 3748 |
| 14:25.01 | tsglove2 | On Debian9, where can I disable/enable the autostart of xfce4? |
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| 14:25.26 | petn-randall | tsglove2: It's usually the DM like gdm or lightdm that does that. |
| 14:25.26 | jaggz | Peyam, khoobeh? |
| 14:25.40 | greycat | tsglove2: are you referring to the graphical login? Or do you still want the graphical login, but you want it to run something other than xfce? |
| 14:25.43 | tsglove2 | petn-randall, thanks... on my way to check out what I have. |
| 14:25.53 | Peyam | jaggz, it hasn't happened yes on this session. I'll try it when it happened |
| 14:25.54 | Peyam | s |
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| 14:26.18 | jaggz | Peyam, k. you should play with it to get used to the commands and set up some scripts for convenience. you can map those to keys too |
| 14:26.27 | rjdp9736 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:26.29 | tsglove2 | greycat, well, it all started because I'm trying to setup VNC on a Debian10 machine. Yet when I connect, I get the old "grey" background with X-cursor. So I setup a new Debian9 machine so I can follow 100% the steps mentioned. |
| 14:26.32 | jaggz | peyam, you use gnome or kde .. ? |
| 14:26.36 | tsglove2 | And... 45 minutes later, here I am. |
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| 14:27.19 | rjdp9736 | @dunz0r, I got disconnected . Incase you replied to me I missed it , when can get logs |
| 14:27.27 | Peyam | jaggz, As I said I have been trying with keybinding and even that script you just show me but it sometimes doesn't happen. however that export thing was new for me. so I will try it . thank you so much |
| 14:27.38 | Peyam | jaggz, I use xfce with the new debian. |
| 14:27.50 | Peyam | i had this problem with stretch too |
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| 14:28.14 | rjdp9736 | output of free -m is : |
| 14:28.16 | rjdp9736 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:28.16 | rjdp9736 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:28.16 | rjdp9736 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:28.24 | jaggz | Peyam, it might be worth it to look at webpages on how to set your default displays in X11. |
| 14:28.38 | Peyam | jaggz, I will do that. thanks :) |
| 14:28.44 | jaggz | I don't know how that stuff is configured. When it resumes, it's just looking at the displays |
| 14:28.53 | jaggz | Peyam, oh, and how to set the display priority or "primary display" |
| 14:28.57 | Peyam | jaggz, are you on xfce or what? |
| 14:29.30 | dunz0r | rjdp9736: Hmm. Not RAM either then. And You're 100% certain that your upstream is behaving like it's supposed to? |
| 14:29.34 | jaggz | Peyam, kde |
| 14:29.37 | jaggz | Peyam, https://superuser.com/questions/546069/setting-primary-monitor-in-ubuntu-without-xrandr |
| 14:29.42 | Peyam | jaggz, the primary choice of screen can be done within the setting. xfce has an option for it and DP-1 is the primary on ein the settings |
| 14:29.59 | jaggz | so, in xorg.conf you'd set that Option "Primary" "true" on the monitor you want |
| 14:30.08 | jaggz | gotcha |
| 14:30.16 | Habbie | how do i prevent gdm from starting on boot on Debian Buster? |
| 14:30.33 | Habbie | i ran systemctl disable gdm3, and i see /etc/rc*.d/K01gdm3, no S01, but it still starts on boot |
| 14:30.48 | rjdp9736 | @dunz0r, upstream beahaves as expected , I tried hiiting 20 request directly to upstream none failed |
| 14:30.53 | tsglove2 | Habbie, systemctl disable gdm ? |
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| 14:31.17 | greycat | Habbie: either remove gdm3, or use systemctl set-default multi-user.target |
| 14:31.27 | rjdp9736 | but when hit via nginx it failed, also I was able to fix this with system reboot 3 days ago |
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| 14:32.21 | rjdp9736 | I have been unable to figure out what filesystem location should I clean to fix this |
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| 14:35.20 | Habbie | greycat, multi-user.target works, thank you! |
| 14:35.41 | greycat | FYI the reverse of that (back to normal) is systemctl set-default graphical.target |
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| 14:38.50 | Habbie | greycat, thanks, i noticed that :) |
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| 14:45.48 | jaggz | Peyam, so.. yeah.. make sure the xfce stuff is setting the defaults well -- and find out where it does it (does it do it in xorg.conf?) and then it's nice to have the shell scripts that do the specific things you want |
| 14:46.04 | Peyam | jaggz, thanks buddy |
| 14:46.09 | jaggz | sometimes flipping primary and secondary. sometimes mirroring (--same-as) .. sometimes extending.. etc |
| 14:46.41 | jaggz | I like setting up my own shortcuts/hotkeys in kde to make my life more convenient. and recently I started adding a lot more commands, aliases, and shell functions, for common things I do |
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| 14:47.27 | jaggz | like: grc () { grep -r --color=always "$@" | less; } # Recursive grep with color |
| 14:47.45 | Peyam | thanks buddy. I will do that. I saved all of these. thanks |
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| 14:48.03 | jaggz | grcw () { grep -r --color=always "\<$@\>" | less; } # Recursive grep with word-boundaries, and color |
| 14:48.37 | jaggz | alias gcam='git commit -a -m' |
| 14:49.31 | jaggz | if you count how many additional keystrokes you hit.. it adds up! make life easy |
| 14:49.58 | jaggz | some guy in a VIM talk focussed on customizing your .vimrc did some quick calculations.. |
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| 15:10.22 | tsglove2 | VNC is now working properly on the Debian9 machine. Yet when I login via VNC, it goes straight to the desktop. I would like for it to go straight to lightdm (which is what I have installed, Debian9 + xfce4). |
| 15:10.32 | greycat | !xdmcp |
| 15:10.32 | dpkg | The X Display Manager Control Protocol (XDMCP) provides a uniform mechanism for an autonomous display (e.g. X terminal) to request login service from a remote host. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_display_manager_(program_type)#X_Display_Manager_Control_Protocol |
| 15:10.50 | tsglove2 | I'm about to follow this guide... https://www.stuartellis.name/articles/vnc-on-linux/#securing-vnc-access-with-a-password |
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| 15:10.55 | tsglove2 | greycat, ah yes! xfmcp |
| 15:11.07 | tsglove2 | So that's the recommended method? |
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| 15:11.15 | tsglove2 | *xdmcp |
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| 15:11.33 | tsglove2 | not xfmcp... not sure what that is. Maybe a multifunction... multi-copy... printer. Running X. |
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| 15:15.56 | commandline1 | @jelly: hello |
| 15:16.07 | jelly | commandline1: hi |
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| 15:16.43 | commandline1 | I was about to begin the installation now for debain 10 buster, i am Lars_1, previous username |
| 15:16.53 | commandline1 | sorry for bailing out last time |
| 15:17.26 | commandline1 | @jelly: from the iterative debugging pricess |
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| 15:18.48 | commandline1 | So i would be needing help with the Nvidia Geforce mx150 drivers, all previos attempt broke something in the system and had to reinstall the OS all over again. |
| 15:19.11 | commandline1 | @jelly: so if you are present should I begin the process ? |
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| 15:20.51 | commandline1 | @jelly: are you their? |
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| 15:23.05 | luisaoBR | problemas de tela com dois monitores no xfce |
| 15:23.25 | greycat | !pt |
| 15:23.25 | dpkg | Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt ) |
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| 15:58.52 | abspython | Is there a seperate channel for debian packaging related queries? |
| 15:59.01 | greycat | !mentors |
| 15:59.02 | dpkg | i heard mentors is the system the Debian project uses to train new people to become Debian Developers or Debian Maintainers and get their packages into the Debian archive. Ask me about <nmg>. http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/ http://mentors.debian.net/ #debian-mentors on irc.debian.org (irc.oftc.net). |
| 15:59.23 | greycat | there's also #packaging on OFTC, but I think that's more generalized somehow (like, RPM and so on) |
| 15:59.48 | greycat | you're allowed to ask here, but most of us are end users, and may not know the answers |
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| 16:13.37 | jelly | #packaging is about .deb but not specifically targeted for Debian |
| 16:14.30 | jelly | or seems to be, I don't think I've ever seen other formats being discussed |
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| 16:36.57 | Lemming | hi all, I've just installed Buster on a new droplet but for some reason DNS resolution seems to be rather broken |
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| 16:37.09 | Habbie | Lemming, in what way? |
| 16:37.23 | Lemming | every time I try to resolve an address I just get "Temporary failure in name resolution" |
| 16:38.02 | Lemming | I've checked both resolv.conf and networkmanager and both have 8.8.8.8 set as primary dns server |
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| 16:38.20 | Lemming | but considering the speed of return I don't think it's a timeout so much as it's not trying |
| 16:38.32 | greycat | can you ping 8.8.8.8 directly from the VPS? |
| 16:38.36 | Lemming | yes |
| 16:39.02 | Lemming | I can ping anything by IP, but DNS always fails |
| 16:39.04 | greycat | any firewall in place that might be blocking packets to port 53 (either udp or tcp or both)? |
| 16:39.14 | Habbie | a new droplet shouldn't be pointed at 8.8.8.8; but 8.8.8.8 should work |
| 16:39.26 | Lemming | not so far as I am aware greycat |
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| 16:40.07 | Habbie | do you have any of the following installed: dig, tcpdump, strace, host, nslookup, unbound-host, tshark ? |
| 16:40.43 | Lemming | nope |
| 16:40.50 | Habbie | i'm naming them all because i assume you cannot install things right now |
| 16:40.55 | Lemming | yeah |
| 16:41.03 | Habbie | curl? |
| 16:41.15 | Lemming | nope |
| 16:41.18 | Habbie | wget? |
| 16:41.37 | Lemming | yes |
| 16:41.48 | jhutchins_wk | Lemming: So your DNS is failing. What's configuring resolv.conf? Is it set correctly? |
| 16:41.58 | Habbie | does DNS fail in wget too? |
| 16:42.43 | jhutchins_wk | Is port 53 open and being passed by the host? |
| 16:43.27 | Lemming | fails in wget as well Habbie |
| 16:43.42 | jhutchins_wk | Of course it does. DNS is not working. |
| 16:43.45 | Habbie | Lemming, can you wget from things by IP instead of by name? |
| 16:43.57 | Lemming | umm, got something for me to try? |
| 16:44.29 | Habbie | wget http://130.89.149.21/ |
| 16:44.38 | Habbie | thta, incidentally, is a working debian mirror |
| 16:44.40 | Habbie | *that |
| 16:44.49 | Lemming | that worked |
| 16:44.56 | jhutchins_wk | Why not fix DNS? |
| 16:45.21 | Habbie | jhutchins_wk, i'm asking this because fixing DNS may involve debugging tools that Lemming does not have right now |
| 16:45.26 | Habbie | also knowing that http does work is good info |
| 16:45.27 | Lemming | jhutchins_wk if you know how to I'm all ears (or eyes in this case) |
| 16:45.41 | Habbie | Lemming, can you show resolv.conf and nsswitch.conf? |
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| 16:46.40 | Lemming | resolv.conf |
| 16:46.41 | Lemming | nameserver 1.1.1.1 |
| 16:46.41 | Lemming | nameserver 8.8.8.8 |
| 16:46.42 | Lemming | nameserver 8.8.4.4 |
| 16:47.04 | Habbie | please use a pastebin :) |
| 16:47.28 | Lemming | it was 3 lines, that doesn't quite cross the cbf line :-P |
| 16:47.38 | Habbie | i was mostly saying it for any future files |
| 16:47.43 | Habbie | also opinions differ :> |
| 16:47.45 | Lemming | nods |
| 16:48.21 | Lemming | https://pastebin.com/RgnsTiDQ |
| 16:48.34 | Habbie | ok, so no systemd-resolved |
| 16:48.50 | Habbie | any idea who put those 3 IPs in resolv.conf? |
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| 16:49.47 | Lemming | 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 were already there, I added 1.1.1.1 to try and fix |
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| 16:49.51 | Lemming | it didn't help |
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| 16:50.25 | Habbie | Lemming, this is at digitalocean? |
| 16:50.29 | Lemming | yes |
| 16:50.52 | Habbie | i installed debian buster at DO two weeks ago and i got DO IPs in resolv.conf |
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| 16:50.58 | Habbie | but the 3 IPs you have in there also work from my VM |
| 16:51.19 | Habbie | i got 67.207.67.2 and .3 |
| 16:51.24 | Habbie | you could try that just for kicks |
| 16:51.51 | Habbie | otherwise i'm out of ideas besides 'use wget or apt on a non-hostname basis to install debugging tools and take it from there' or the ever popular 'just nuke the droplet and make a new one' |
| 16:53.23 | jhutchins_wk | On the other hand, there's always /etc/hosts |
| 16:53.25 | Lemming | Habbie, weird part is... that's what I just did... |
| 16:54.20 | Habbie | jhutchins_wk, ack |
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| 16:55.48 | johnfg | hi folks |
| 16:56.33 | johnfg | For some reason, my canon printer has stopped printing. I'm still running stretch, latest updates, and have done nothing that should have made the printer stop working. |
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| 16:59.42 | johnfg | fwiw, the printer works fine when I'm booted to win7. |
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| 17:02.43 | n_1-c_k | johnfg, look at /var/log/cups/* ? |
| 17:03.05 | johnfg | This error is showing up in the jobs section of cups: "src = libcanon_pdlwrapper.c, line = 514, err = 0Â¥nDEBUG: Wrote 1 pages..." |
| 17:04.41 | johnfg | Here's the short error_log of /var/log/cups: http://paste.debian.net/1098953/ |
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| 17:06.35 | johnfg | n_1-c_k: Anything there that tells you what happened? I can't figure it out. |
| 17:08.03 | n_1-c_k | Well, I have no idea what that means. You could try stopping cups, backup your config, purge & reinstall cups, set up your printer again. I accept no responsibility for ensuing fires or explosions. |
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| 17:09.39 | johnfg | :-) |
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| 17:11.04 | kreyren | ,v file dotnet |
| 17:11.05 | judd | Package: file on amd64 -- jessie: 1:5.22+15-2+deb8u4; jessie-security: 1:5.22+15-2+deb8u5; stretch-security: 1:5.30-1+deb9u1; stretch: 1:5.30-1+deb9u2; buster: 1:5.35-4; bullseye: 1:5.37-5; sid: 1:5.37-5 |
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| 17:15.00 | NCS_One | hi |
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| 17:17.07 | NCS_One | after upgrading to buster I did a reboot and now I get "... Kernel panic - not syncing : VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown block(0,0)", what can I do to fix it? |
| 17:17.28 | tsglove2 | greycat, I have been reading about xdmcp , and I'm a little bit lost. What I would like is to connect via VNC to a Debian machine, yet have lightdm DisplayManager come up (instead of going straight to the WindowManager xfce). |
| 17:17.34 | tsglove2 | You mentioned xdmcp... |
| 17:18.00 | tsglove2 | Pardon my "lost in the sea", yet what I'm looking for is for VNC's xstartup to start lightdm instead of xfce4? |
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| 17:18.22 | greycat | XDMCP is what you normally use to get an X11 login screen from a remote server to display on your X11 thin client (diskless workstation, whatever). 1980s LAN model. I have no idea how VNC would fit into this. |
| 17:19.25 | tsglove2 | greycat, ok ok. Thanks for the feedback. I'm trying to tie this all together. I'll update soon on what I progress to! |
| 17:19.49 | karlpinc | I use plain old xdm I believe, for remote X login over the lan. |
| 17:21.02 | tsglove2 | karlpinc, interesting. My issue is that the local environment is a mix of Debian and MS. And other team-members will be login from a MS machine. Thus why I thought to use VNC. |
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| 17:21.15 | karlpinc | (I'm thinking that maybe slim also supports this, but maybe I looked at slim and it didn't.) Anyway, XDMCP is the protocol. |
| 17:21.32 | tsglove2 | Yet the way I got it configured, when I put the VNC password, it goes straight to xfce desktop. No login required. |
| 17:22.27 | karlpinc | tsglove2: MS Windows used to have a free X client. I don't know if it still does. |
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| 17:22.58 | tsglove2 | That's an option. I'll see if I can avoid going down that rabbit hole. |
| 17:24.07 | karlpinc | tsglove2: VNC might be eaiser all the way around, if you can get a dm login screen. (Sounds likely, but then I've not really looked. VNC was sorta designed to connect to a "user's screen".) |
| 17:24.50 | tsglove2 | Ohh |
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| 17:26.30 | karlpinc | tsglove2: Then there's the "what are you really trying to do" question. You need a access to a whole desktop? |
| 17:26.50 | Peyam | how do I find the path of Clang-format on my disk? |
| 17:26.53 | dob1 | hi I have exim4 just for local mail, on paniclog I found several 1hmCx0-0003FL-Ai Couldn't chown message log /var/spool/exim4//msglog//1hmCx0-0003FL-Ai: Operation not permitted |
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| 17:27.47 | dob1 | can I empty paniclog of exim? |
| 17:27.58 | dob1 | otherwise I continue to receive mails about it is not empty |
| 17:28.15 | karlpinc | tsglove2: Looks doable. See perhaps: https://developer.ibm.com/tutorials/os-multiuserloginsvnc/ |
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| 17:30.20 | tsglove2 | karlpinc, yeah, I need the whole desktop. Other team-members will need to be able to do whatever on it. |
| 17:30.24 | Primer | I use Xvnc all the time on servers. Just run Xvnc, the run something like openbox on the display it creates, et voilá |
| 17:30.25 | tsglove2 | I'm looking at the IBM link you psoted. |
| 17:30.44 | tsglove2 | Primer, yet do you get the DisplayManager login screen? |
| 17:31.56 | Primer | no, you get an X server |
| 17:32.14 | Primer | But instead of running openbox, you could choose to run...sddm? |
| 17:32.16 | greycat | I think he's already got that. He was complaining "all I have is the plain grey screen". |
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| 17:32.30 | Primer | that's what VNC is... |
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| 17:33.56 | tsglove2 | Yeah, I mean... I just understood what a "DisplayManager - DM" is, versus a "Window Manager - WM". So, please excuse if I'm ... going on basic things! |
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| 17:34.37 | greycat | My disadvantage here is that I do not understand the mindset of Windows users, and I have no familiarity with "whole desktop exporting" things like VNC and RDP. |
| 17:35.29 | tsglove2 | You actually have a blessing, I would judge! |
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| 17:41.51 | NCS_One | solved it. Thanks anyway |
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| 17:43.42 | karlpinc | I don't get the "I need to run a GUI on my server" mindset. But to each their own. |
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| 17:44.31 | greycat | "Other team-members will need to be able to do whatever on it" is too vague for me to even understand the goals. |
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| 17:45.51 | jhutchins_wk | tsglove2: The panic log exists so you can read it and find out why it paniced. Once you've fixed the problem, it should start and run without creating a new entry, and you won't get those messages. |
| 17:46.00 | jhutchins_wk | tsglove2: Oops. |
| 17:46.01 | tsglove2 | there's a python script that fires up FireFox and hooks up with it via Selenium's WebDriver. With that, we scrape some websites for data, then write to a database. So the "looking at what the browswer is doing" is necessary. That's the gist of the needs for VNC. |
| 17:47.02 | velix | Which scheduler is default in Stretch? |
| 17:47.03 | jhutchins_wk | tsglove2: Wouldn't it be more efficient to use wget, curl, or a text-based browser? |
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| 17:47.43 | Primer | tsglove2: I did the exact same thing about 5 years ago, using Firefox, an addon I wrote, and Xvnc |
| 17:47.53 | jhutchins_wk | velix: cron. |
| 17:48.02 | velix | jhutchins_wk: Sorry, I/O scheduler :D |
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| 17:48.23 | Primer | tsglove2: I'd ssh to the machine, run Xvnc, it ran a script that just ran firefox, and firefox just waited for work |
| 17:48.47 | greycat | A remote web browser sounds like a special kind of hell. |
| 17:49.02 | Primer | screen was involved too |
| 17:49.41 | Primer | meh, you just need X, and Xvnc provides it. It's really simple. |
| 17:49.46 | Primer | no hell involved |
| 17:49.53 | tsglove2 | Yeah... the pages we visit are... interesting. One of them does not have some data in the html-tables UNTIL the browser's size itself is wide (I don't know if 1200 pixels or what). At that point, I guess the javascript recognizes the DOM's size, and inserts the extra-data columns. |
| 17:49.53 | greycat | scrolls up farther |
| 17:49.56 | tsglove2 | hell-ish |
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| 17:50.20 | greycat | A remote web browser session BEING SCRAPED FOR CONTENT sounds like an extra special kind of hell. |
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| 17:50.31 | Primer | tsglove2: that part surely is, but the Xvnc part...cake |
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| 17:51.03 | tsglove2 | Oh heck yes. Especially when I *know* they have a as/400 on the backend. Yet they load up 4-5 MB of data for each request... serve up a webpage... so I can scrape it... and ask for another page. |
| 17:51.06 | kreyren | ,v file mysql.h |
| 17:51.07 | judd | Package: file on amd64 -- jessie: 1:5.22+15-2+deb8u4; jessie-security: 1:5.22+15-2+deb8u5; stretch-security: 1:5.30-1+deb9u1; stretch: 1:5.30-1+deb9u2; buster: 1:5.35-4; bullseye: 1:5.37-5; sid: 1:5.37-5 |
| 17:51.13 | tsglove2 | Primer, Xvnc? |
| 17:51.14 | Primer | I can give you the source of my addon if you want :) all it did was scrape URLs from a running firefox. It opens a socket and just waits for URLs, and returns base64 encoded pngs of the page |
| 17:51.15 | tsglove2 | checking |
| 17:51.26 | greycat | kreyren: ,file is a separate command from ,v |
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| 17:51.41 | karlpinc | greycat: The whole point of Selenium seems to be to screen scrape. (Nominally, granted, to do regression tests.) Nuts. |
| 17:51.56 | kreyren | ,file mysql.h |
| 17:52.01 | judd | Search for mysql.h in buster/amd64: tcl8.6-tdbc-mysql: usr/include/fakemysql.h; lua-sql-mysql-dev: usr/include/lua5.1/lua-sql-mysql.h, usr/include/lua5.2/lua-sql-mysql.h, usr/include/lua5.3/lua-sql-mysql.h; libodb-api-dev: usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/mysql.h; libmariadb-dev: usr/include/mariadb/mysql.h, usr/include/mariadb/server/mysql.h, usr/include/mariadb/server/private/probes_mysql.h; |
| 17:52.02 | judd | lua-dbi-mysql-dev: usr/include/lua5.1/lua-dbi-mysql.h, usr/include/lua5.2/lua-dbi-mysql.h, usr/include/lua5.3/lua-dbi-mysql.h; libqt4-dev: usr/include/qt4/Qt/qsql_mysql.h, usr/include/qt4/QtSql/qsql_mysql.h; libsoci-dev: usr/include/soci/mysql/soci-mysql.h; libvtk7-dev: usr/include/vtk-7.1/vtkxdmf2/XdmfValuesMySQL.h; paraview-dev: usr/include/paraview/vtkxdmf2/XdmfValuesMySQL.h; (1 more message) |
| 17:52.06 | kreyren | greycat, thanks |
| 17:52.30 | marmarek | hi |
| 17:52.37 | jhutchins_wk | I thought the whole point of selenium was to test web pages against browsers. |
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| 17:52.51 | karlpinc | kreyren: It'd be nice if next time you /msg judd file ... instead. We don't need to see that. |
| 17:52.52 | marmarek | can somebody explain/point at docs how debian-security repos works for bullseye? |
| 17:52.53 | greycat | I thought it was some kind of metallic element. |
| 17:52.59 | marmarek | I see http://security-cdn.debian.org/debian-security/dists/ |
| 17:53.00 | kreyren | karlpinc, i try |
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| 17:53.12 | greycat | marmarek: "they don't" |
| 17:53.12 | marmarek | there is bullseye-security, which is different than for previous releases |
| 17:53.15 | karlpinc | jhutchins_wk: Yes, but it does it by screen scraping. |
| 17:53.30 | marmarek | I just want to avoid 404 on apt update... |
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| 17:53.47 | greycat | marmarek: there is a plan to rename foobar/updates to foobar-security because the existing name is easily confused with foobar-updates (/ vs. -) |
| 17:54.04 | greycat | marmarek: but there ARE NOT testing security updates, so there won't be anything IN it until bullseye is actually released |
| 17:54.19 | karlpinc | jhutchins_wk: The only thing I've seen it used for is regression testing php web pages to make sure they produce the right output. Which is a crazy way to regression test. |
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| 17:54.45 | marmarek | greycat: is the change already set, or will it change before release? |
| 17:54.47 | greycat | karlpinc: that admittedly sounds MUCH less horrifying than what tsglove2 was describing |
| 17:54.59 | greycat | !debian-next |
| 17:54.59 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
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| 17:55.55 | marmarek | thanks |
| 17:55.57 | jhutchins_wk | karlpinc: That and performance testing. |
| 17:56.26 | jhutchins_wk | marmarek: Buster already released. |
| 17:57.18 | jhutchins_wk | Oh, bullseye. |
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| 18:10.26 | domovoy_ | hi |
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| 18:14.15 | domovoy_ | i have a problem with a motherboard (asustek p5kpl/1600). First i couldn't boot on usb, after a bios update this was fixed, still, after booting, the only recognised usb device is the flashdrive i used to boot (mouse is not here, neither is my external hard drive when i plug it in), when plugging a usb device, nothing appears in syslog, and lsusb doesn't list it. Same thing if i boot from a cd. I'd like to make sure this issue can be fixed before |
| 18:14.15 | domovoy_ | installing. |
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| 18:17.15 | tsglove2 | domovoy_, you using Debian server? |
| 18:17.31 | domovoy_ | tsglove2> no, why? |
| 18:17.41 | tsglove2 | What are you using on your flashdrive to boot? |
| 18:18.24 | domovoy_ | debian |
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| 18:18.46 | domovoy_ | plain and simple image copied to the flashdrive using dd |
| 18:19.00 | humpled | but which one? |
| 18:19.45 | domovoy_ | https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/bt-cd/debian-10.0.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso.torrent |
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| 18:21.08 | j5 | xfce is good |
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| 18:23.29 | j5 | Anyone using Budgie on current Stable? |
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| 18:28.23 | jelly | ,i budgie |
| 18:28.24 | judd | No package named 'budgie' was found in buster/amd64. |
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| 18:31.37 | karlpinc | domovoy_: You might want to use the unoffical images with non-free firmware. |
| 18:31.44 | karlpinc | !tell domovoy_ about firmware images |
| 18:32.41 | domovoy_ | karlpinc> tried that, i also just booted the installed windows vista to see if it works, doesn't. I guess this mobo is fried :/ |
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| 18:35.32 | iwkse | hi, do know you where I can find python3.6 packages? |
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| 18:36.00 | greycat | you can't use python3.7 which comes with Debian? |
| 18:36.23 | iwkse | greycat: the app I need to install works with python3.6 (taiga) |
| 18:36.36 | greycat | does it *fail* with python 3.7? |
| 18:36.40 | iwkse | yes already tried |
| 18:36.48 | greycat | ,v python3.6 |
| 18:36.49 | judd | No package named 'python3.6' was found in amd64. |
| 18:37.01 | avu | iwkse: it's very strange to have an app that works with 3.6 but not with 3.7, what's the error? are the devs aware of the problem? |
| 18:37.06 | greycat | sounds like you need to install python 3.6 locally |
| 18:37.21 | greycat | (or fix the bug in the application, as avu hints) |
| 18:37.35 | jhutchins_wk | domovoy_: If you leterally copied the .torrent file to the drive it won't boot. |
| 18:37.36 | iwkse | avu: check this: https://github.com/taigaio/taiga-back/issues/1328 |
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| 18:37.58 | domovoy_ | jhutchins_wk> lol, yeah, i know that :) |
| 18:38.11 | jhutchins_wk | Ok, some people don't, and it's an easy error to make. |
| 18:38.12 | avu | iwkse: if you really need another python version, I'd suggest having a look at pyenv |
| 18:38.41 | jhutchins_wk | domovoy_: I can't relly be sure from what you've said, but it does sound like one of the USB channels is dead. |
| 18:38.53 | jhutchins_wk | domovoy_: If it's a desktop you could check the cables. |
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| 18:39.05 | iwkse | avu: cool, you mean this right? https://github.com/pyenv/pyenv |
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| 18:39.22 | avu | iwkse: should be a relatively trivial fix in kombu though |
| 18:39.35 | avu | iwkse: yes |
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| 18:39.43 | iwkse | avu: so I'm going to take a look |
| 18:39.45 | domovoy_ | jhutchins_wk> that would be _all_ the usb ports, tried them all, even the additional connectors for front panel usb on the board |
| 18:40.23 | domovoy_ | also, network doesn't work on linux, but does on windows |
| 18:40.32 | avu | iwkse: ah, there even is a version of kombu released already which has the fix |
| 18:40.41 | avu | since Feb 5 :/ |
| 18:40.51 | iwkse | avu: oh..cool |
| 18:40.58 | iwkse | they should update |
| 18:41.08 | iwkse | I will report that on github |
| 18:41.26 | avu | oh, no, May 2018 even |
| 18:41.31 | iwkse | damn |
| 18:41.40 | jhutchins_wk | domovoy_: Checking the cables is cheap and easy. You might also look for suspicious options in the BIOS. |
| 18:41.47 | jhutchins_wk | domovoy_: Networking we can fix. |
| 18:41.48 | Xu95 | domovoy_, for your networking did you try non-free drivers in Debian? |
| 18:41.51 | avu | iwkse: see https://github.com/celery/kombu/issues/841 |
| 18:42.24 | iwkse | avu: yeah, thankx |
| 18:42.40 | jhutchins_wk | domovoy_: Have you checked dmesg and the syslog to see what your system thinks is going on? Does lspci show USB hub(s)? |
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| 19:02.40 | SerajewelKS | what does it mean if i hotplug a SATA disk, i see "ata2: SATA link up 6.0 Gbps (SStatus 133 SControl 300)" in the kernel log, but there's no new block devices? |
| 19:03.09 | SerajewelKS | i've never had a linux system not present a new sdX node when a SATA disk is hotplugged |
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| 19:12.20 | jelly | SerajewelKS: dunno, but can you ask the controllers to reevaluate what's connected to them? echo '- - -'|sudo tee -a /sys/class/scsi_host/host*/scan |
| 19:12.39 | nulleip | in a sequence after detach a previous disk in the same sata channel? |
| 19:12.49 | jelly | (you know what the sudo stands for, there) |
| 19:16.53 | SerajewelKS | jelly: nothing... strange |
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| 19:22.35 | jelly | and null'eip's idea? |
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| 19:23.09 | jelly | was there something on ata2 previously not unplugged properly by echo 1 > /sys/block/sdX/device/delete ? |
| 19:23.30 | SerajewelKS | no, there was nothing in that port when the system booted last |
| 19:23.47 | jelly | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 19:24.01 | SerajewelKS | i had to rearrange the sata power cables and the only drive in that section of disks that was there when i was booted hosts an optional LV and is part of two mirrors |
| 19:24.16 | jelly | I see a reboot in your future. |
| 19:24.18 | SerajewelKS | so i unmounted it and kicked it from the mirrors, unplugged it. it disappeared from lsblk. |
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| 19:24.28 | SerajewelKS | then i replugged it and the LV automatically mounted |
| 19:24.42 | SerajewelKS | so maybe the mobo just doesn't like hotplug if the port was initially empty |
| 19:24.51 | SerajewelKS | it's weird though that the kernel knows something was hotplugged |
| 19:24.59 | SerajewelKS | i just plugged two new drives and neither shows up in lsblk |
| 19:25.12 | SerajewelKS | but the disk i unplugged and replugged disappeared and reappeared as i expected |
| 19:30.34 | SerajewelKS | i rebooted and both new drives show up |
| 19:30.37 | jhutchins_wk | SerajewelKS: dmesg should show what node the device is. |
| 19:30.53 | SerajewelKS | jhutchins_wk: there was no node for the new device. not in dmesg, not in lsblk. not until i rebooted. |
| 19:31.22 | SerajewelKS | but the kernel knew there was a new ata device. that's really weird to me. it's worked on other linux boxes. i'm just going to blame the motherboard. |
| 19:31.32 | jhutchins_wk | SerajewelKS: Hot plug was not well implemented last I looked, I had a bay that worked for a while, then ALL of the connectors stopped working with it. |
| 19:31.33 | SerajewelKS | i don't know what else would be the problem |
| 19:31.45 | SerajewelKS | weird, i thought sata hotplug was pretty ubiquitous at this point |
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| 19:31.54 | jhutchins_wk | SerajewelKS: Definitely blame the motherboard. |
| 19:31.59 | SerajewelKS | at least it's worked well on every box i've used (until now) |
| 19:32.11 | SerajewelKS | the part i can't understand is the kernel noticing the new device |
| 19:32.27 | SerajewelKS | i'm not sure how it would notice the device but not give me an sd node. *shrug* |
| 19:32.45 | karlpinc | SerajewelKS: BIOS (etc.) update needed? |
| 19:32.57 | jhutchins_wk | The one I had wouldn't recognise the drive until I ran the BIOS with it plugged in. Don't remember if I had to set anything, or just run it. ~10 yr old Dell. |
| 19:33.08 | SerajewelKS | possibly. it's also a system76 box. i'd expect them to use decent motherboards with good linux support. |
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| 19:33.35 | karlpinc | SerajewelKS: Complain to hardware support? |
| 19:33.46 | SerajewelKS | jhutchins_wk: that sounds similar to this case. i unplugged and replugged a drive (to rearrange SATA power cables, and obviously after unmounting everything) and when i replugged it the system picked it up fine. |
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| 19:33.50 | SerajewelKS | systemd even mounted it for me |
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| 19:34.19 | SerajewelKS | i also had to manually remove/add it to some md-raid mirrors, but i expected to have to do that |
| 19:34.33 | SerajewelKS | handwaves... "hardware!" |
| 19:34.42 | jhutchins_wk | Go VM! |
| 19:34.54 | SerajewelKS | well yes |
| 19:35.05 | SerajewelKS | but to add storage to the VM you have to be able to add it to the hypervisor, preferably without rebooting ;) |
| 19:35.11 | SerajewelKS | assuming you don't have spare storage |
| 19:35.40 | jhutchins_wk | Capacity planning. |
| 19:36.16 | SerajewelKS | oooo look at you and your fancy procedures |
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| 19:37.49 | jhutchins_wk | I'm not sure what the storage architecture is, but they can add/remove/upgrade whole blades. I guess they just vmotion all the servers off one and *poof*. |
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| 19:39.06 | jelly | the mention of "vmotion" however implies $$$ for hypervisor licensing on the order of $$$ for hardware |
| 19:39.28 | jhutchins_wk | Cash flow here is absolutely terrifying. |
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| 20:18.15 | cooler | hi, i want to add windows sda1 to grub config menu. i searched but i think i need a little bit of help... |
| 20:19.04 | greycat | make sure os-prober (it's a package) is installed. then run update-grub as root. |
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| 20:20.25 | cooler | greycat, it doesnt detect the windows os |
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| 20:20.28 | cooler | win10 |
| 20:25.55 | SerajewelKS | ls -l |
| 20:25.59 | SerajewelKS | *plonk* |
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| 20:29.24 | humpled | :) |
| 20:29.45 | jhutchins_wk | cooler: update grub should find it. |
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| 21:04.31 | teclo- | hmmm... weird, I've got an external 2 TB drive that had a gpt partition table, I switched to the dos partition table, created and formatted a brand new ext4 filesystem... while formatting I already had [ 9249.464689] Buffer I/O error on device sdd1... |
| 21:05.06 | teclo- | now it took 2h to format, and now it won't mount, even when typing mount manually |
| 21:05.16 | teclo- | this is weird... perhaps did I do something wrong... |
| 21:06.51 | teclo- | is scratching his head |
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| 21:07.03 | gmturner | spinning rust, teclo- ? |
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| 21:08.10 | teclo- | gmturner: well I don't think so I bought this external hard drive on march 3, 2019 |
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| 21:10.12 | gmturner | put your ear against it and listen while accessing the drive. you'll know which it is. IF there's no safe place to touch it, you can use a wooden chopstick to transmit sound from the drive to your ear-holes :) |
| 21:11.13 | gmturner | spinning rust external drives can pretty easily wind up with physical defects due to getting bumped around over the years (or months as the case would be here) |
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| 21:12.24 | gmturner | A surprisingly high percentage of USB external drive enclosures have a spinning rust SATA drive inside them. |
| 21:14.40 | koollman | how is it surprising ? |
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| 21:15.32 | teclo- | yeah external drives are basically internal drives in an enclosure |
| 21:16.08 | gmturner | once spinning rust gets damaged, it tends to get real slow like that, as the drive keeps trying and trying to read/write as requested before it eventually gives up on a sector (? ... whatever it gives up on) and remaps it.... unless it's an "enterprise" drive which it probably isn't if you didn't but that specifically |
| 21:16.25 | gmturner | s/but/buy/ |
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| 21:18.35 | gmturner | Sometimes you can resuscitate them by some procedure like dd if=/dev/random of=${disk} ... ; dd if=/dev/zero of=${disk} ...; For a 2TB external disk it will take a hell of a long time though. |
| 21:19.24 | teclo- | gmturner: well I just did that |
| 21:19.33 | teclo- | not for the whole disk though |
| 21:19.58 | gmturner | Just the partitions? |
| 21:20.00 | teclo- | I did dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdd |
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| 21:20.12 | teclo- | then after like 1 minute Ctrl-C |
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| 21:23.46 | gmturner | There might be faster ways. But often not without learning curves, and maybe being forced to pirate some ancient abandon-ware or something like that. The dd will probably ultimately get you there faster and you can go on with your life and get a result in a day or three. |
| 21:24.11 | gmturner | not faster in absolute time but in man-hours i mean |
| 21:25.17 | Zathras | hi. after upgrading to buster my python 2.7 (I know...) VENVs are broken. Is this normal? And fixable or migrateble to v3? |
| 21:25.31 | teclo- | actually I'm thinking of formatting it with mkfs.ext4 -c ... so that it checks for bad blocks |
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| 21:26.00 | cooler | hey can you play starcraft on vmware ? |
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| 21:28.01 | gmturner | like format the whole drive without partitioning? The problem with the whole "bad blocks" approach is a lot of time the drive is smarter than the format utility. So the format utility times out waiting for the drive to say "that's a bad block" and marks it as bad. Then the drive eventually says "I give up, I've ramapped the storage, here's your result, everything is 'fine'"... |
| 21:28.59 | gmturner | bleh, my client is wigging out, not sure if I typed all that. tldr: your format might mark the wrong blocks as bad the first time but give you the right result the second time. |
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| 21:31.14 | gmturner | I think dd once, then format. Or if you need it all to be done yesterday, purchase a new drive or try to figure out how to tell your drive to low-level format itself but be prepared for a frustrating time figuring that out. |
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| 21:43.53 | gmturner | koollman, I find it surprising that we are still spinning platters in external drives because they so often wind up in situations like telco's. If you'd asked me five years ago, I'd have predicted all new external disks would be solid-state by now. |
| 21:45.20 | koollman | gmturner: imagine a vendor has a choice between cheap and fast options. what will they pick first ? no surprise :) |
| 21:45.27 | annadane | cooler, uhh, ask ##linux |
| 21:45.35 | gmturner | yeah that part is not surprising, agreed :) |
| 21:45.53 | cooler | annadane, hey, good idea thanks |
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| 21:50.40 | gmturner | I think I heard recently that at least one of the big vendors was finally going to start releasing slow, cheap, bulk consumer-targeted ssds. So maybe in another five years we can stop worrying about C/H/S, and trade whirring noises for coil whine. |
| 21:53.56 | SerajewelKS | ugh... i want to add some small raid1 ssds to my server to use as an lvmcache for a 6TB raid1 of hdds |
| 21:54.20 | SerajewelKS | but i only have one spare sata port, and getting a sata controller card kind of ruins the goal of doing that cheaply |
| 21:54.56 | SerajewelKS | i don't suppose anyone makes decently fast ~64GB USB3 storage... |
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| 21:56.29 | SerajewelKS | i like the idea of using pcie ssds for that but then i can't hotswap a failed stick |
| 21:57.19 | SerajewelKS | i was also wondering, is there any existing software that will monitor an md-raid array and delete an lvmcache if it becomes degraded? |
| 21:57.56 | SerajewelKS | so that if one of the ssds fails, the cache is totally disabled as it is unsafe |
| 21:58.25 | SerajewelKS | i could probably whip up a simple script that uses mdadm --monitor and make a systemd service out of it, just wondered if this was an already-solved problem |
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| 21:59.03 | commandline1 | i need help with lightdm !! |
| 21:59.50 | commandline1 | says "Failed to start Light display Manager" |
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| 22:00.09 | SerajewelKS | check the X logs, you may be missing a required X and/or kernel video driver |
| 22:00.21 | commandline1 | was installing nvidia drivers on debian 9 using the official site |
| 22:00.34 | SerajewelKS | i was just about to bring up proprietary drivers |
| 22:00.36 | SerajewelKS | !nvidia |
| 22:00.36 | dpkg | Where possible, Nvidia graphic processing units are supported using the open source <nouveau> driver on Debian systems by default. To install the proprietary "nvidia" driver, see https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers or ask me about <nvidia dkms>, <nvidia legacy>; installing this directly from nvidia.com (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia on irc.freenode.net. |
| 22:00.58 | SerajewelKS | don't use nvidia's installer if you want support here |
| 22:01.00 | commandline1 | alright |
| 22:01.09 | SerajewelKS | nvidia dkms |
| 22:01.10 | SerajewelKS | !nvidia dkms |
| 22:01.11 | dpkg | For Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later. Ask me about <contrib> and <non-free sources>. «aptitude -r install linux-headers-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'` nvidia-kernel-dkms && mkdir -p /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d && echo -e 'Section "Device"ntIdentifier "My GPU"ntDriver "nvidia"nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf». Reboot to enable the <nouveau> blacklist. |
| 22:01.38 | SerajewelKS | that echo line doesn't look like it would work |
| 22:01.42 | gmturner | SerajewelKS, you have any experience with lvmcache? My understanding is it's a bit of a minefield and maybe not all the bugs are fixed. But I have no personal experience. |
| 22:01.44 | SerajewelKS | i think the escapes got gobbled up |
| 22:01.59 | commandline1 | this would be very helpful if u could just tell me on how should i get out of this lightdm issue first? |
| 22:02.59 | commandline1 | Nouveau was also blacklisted |
| 22:03.28 | SerajewelKS | you get out of that issue by removing all the crap nvidia-installer added |
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| 22:04.29 | commandline1 | ok |
| 22:07.34 | SerajewelKS | gmturner: doing some research it looks like a pretty nasty bug was fixed in the kernel 4.12 and buster is 4.19, so maybe it's fine in buster |
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| 22:09.44 | gmturner | could be. like I said I've got no expeience... more of a vague impression that maybe I'm better off not using it if I don't want problems. |
| 22:10.06 | magic_ninja | So debian just completely crapped out on me. |
| 22:10.20 | magic_ninja | Well, it booted into a terminal. |
| 22:10.38 | magic_ninja | Purged nvidia and got it to boot in noveau drivers |
| 22:11.38 | teclo- | hm, weird... that external disk with issues in Debian GNU/Linux ... I just formatted it in MacOSX and now it works flawlessly |
| 22:12.27 | SerajewelKS | gmturner: hmm. i wonder what write caching mechanisms are available... |
| 22:12.29 | magic_ninja | ima try a reinstall and reboot |
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| 22:13.46 | gmturner | unfortunately, SerajewelKS, I believe lvmcache uses dm-cache under the hood and they have the same pitfalls. I do vaguely recall that there was another in-tree framework, and some out-of-tree alternatives as well, but that could all be wrong. |
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| 22:14.42 | magic_ninja | back in action. That was scary |
| 22:14.58 | SerajewelKS | gmturner: seems strange that linux wouldn't have a stable writeback caching mechanism by now :/ |
| 22:15.00 | magic_ninja | I thought I was going to have to reinstall DOS |
| 22:16.07 | gmturner | Yeah, kind-of unfortunate if that's really so SerajewelKS. If you're determined to have your cake and eat it too, my advice would just be to do lots of testing to make sure you do, indeed, actually have your cake. |
| 22:16.31 | SerajewelKS | gmturner: i do have nightly backups though rebuilding the system would be a pita |
| 22:17.45 | magic_ninja | what can do I about pavuctrl not saving my settings |
| 22:18.07 | SerajewelKS | i've heard that using an ssd to hold the ext4 journal can offer pretty big performance improvements as well, as sync/fsync flushes to the ssd only |
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| 22:19.37 | gmturner | that might indeed get you some moarfastering without as much risk SerajewelKS |
| 22:19.42 | magic_ninja | under configuration-->built in audio I have to keep changing to to "duplex stero" and I don't know how to save it |
| 22:20.16 | SerajewelKS | gmturner: i wonder if using some USB flash sticks would work in that capacity, since the amount of data isn't that great. we wouldn't be looking at throughput, we'd be looking at fsync latency... |
| 22:20.30 | SerajewelKS | strokes his beard |
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| 22:22.40 | gmturner | Possible but you'd need the right stick SerajewelKS; recent corsair "GTX" sticks are basically sata-ssd's on a USB 3.1 interface for example, and can probably beat spinning rust. but of course they probably have way more latency than, i.e., native sata ssds |
| 22:23.11 | gmturner | "native" being a relative term of course :) |
| 22:23.21 | SerajewelKS | i have a few junk sticks laying around that i could raid1 and run some performance tests on. it's theoretically possible that fsync latency is better. |
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| 22:23.45 | gmturner | junk sticks are insufferably slow. your spinning rust will smoke them completely. |
| 22:24.12 | SerajewelKS | maybe? remember throughput is not the concern. |
| 22:24.38 | gmturner | well give it a try. I admit my impressions are quite subjective. |
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| 22:25.17 | SerajewelKS | i know that throughput isn't even close |
| 22:25.35 | SerajewelKS | ~100-150MB/s write on my HDD RAID1 vs like 20MB/s on a junk flash drive |
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| 22:27.38 | gmturner | right although I suspect they are way behind in both dimensions. You might try leaving some of your sticks unpartitioned since those sticks get all wierd and slow as you approach capcity limits |
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| 22:29.53 | gmturner | my tendency to fill those little sticks up could be a reason I might think they're slower than they could be |
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| 22:53.29 | SCIENTIST | hey |
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| 23:03.04 | jh001_ | SCIENTIST: you may proceed |
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| 23:06.26 | gjvc | updates sid |
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| 23:27.40 | dmar198 | I'm trying to ssh into my server via tor from outside my local lan, but I keep getting the error "ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host." I've checked my auth.log and it does not show any point where my server closed a connection on me when I tried to ssh into it. What should I do? |
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| 23:34.21 | nolan_ | dmar198: have you tried connecting with the -v flag? |
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| 23:35.17 | dmar198 | no, I'll try that, thanks |
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| 23:37.20 | dmar198 | I see a lot of errors about not finding rsa_certs, dsa_certs, and ecdsa_certs, then the message "Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0," then "Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_7.4p1 Debian-10+deb9u6," then "ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host" |
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| 23:47.03 | HotBeefDip | can someone explain why Synaptic is included with Buster if it, apparently, isn't working? or...maybe I'm doing something wrong when I try to use it? |
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