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| 00:02.34 | LtL | HotBeefDip: you're not doing anything wrong, synaptic doesn't work under Xwayland. |
| 00:02.44 | HotBeefDip | hmm |
| 00:04.02 | HotBeefDip | LtL I'm fairly new to Linux but isn't the whole idea of Debian's "stable" branch that all the packages included will work if used on a vanilla (default) system install? Or am I misunderstanding the philosophy behind the stable branch? |
| 00:05.16 | LtL | HotBeefDip: it did until Xwayland came along, hopefully that will be fixed, others apps may not work either. |
| 00:05.20 | HotBeefDip | do I need to configure Buster differently if I want to use certain packages, like Synaptic? |
| 00:05.46 | SerajewelKS | HotBeefDip: no, the idea of debian's stable branch is that it doesn't change after release except to fix _critical_ bugs and security updates |
| 00:05.57 | SerajewelKS | stable == doesn't change. stable != bug-free. |
| 00:06.15 | HotBeefDip | SerajewelKS ahh, gotcha...thx for the clarification |
| 00:06.34 | SerajewelKS | np |
| 00:06.53 | SerajewelKS | in particular, "optional thing A doesn't work with optional thing B" isn't a critical bug :) |
| 00:06.54 | LtL | HotBeefDip: the only work around at the moment is to install/use 'weston' I know nothing about weston, but the wiki mentions it. |
| 00:07.23 | HotBeefDip | I know it's better to use the command line package managers like apt and aptitude...but, since I'm new I thought I'd get my feet wet with Synaptic...I'm starting to think getting Synaptic working will be more trouble than it's worth...is that a fair assumption? |
| 00:08.02 | HotBeefDip | alternatively, would it be worth nuking Buster and installing Stretch instead? |
| 00:08.05 | LtL | HotBeefDip: yes, that's a fair assumption. |
| 00:09.36 | LtL | HotBeefDip: That's up to you, for myself it wouldn't be worth the downgrade but I never use synaptic. |
| 00:09.56 | HotBeefDip | LtL ok, thanks for the advice |
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| 00:10.25 | LtL | HotBeefDip: hopefully it'll be fixed and you're welcome. |
| 00:10.32 | HotBeefDip | also, is it possible to run a more current browser than ESR without ending up with a weird franken-distro? I found this site linked on the Debian wiki, but it doesn't mention how to install the release version of Firefox under Buster... https://mozilla.debian.net/ |
| 00:10.46 | HotBeefDip | *than Firefox ESR I meant |
| 00:11.55 | LtL | HotBeefDip: thats where I installed FF from a couple years ago, i run FF 69, but ESR is still intact. |
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| 00:12.24 | LtL | HotBeefDip: I installed in $HOME by the way. |
| 00:12.56 | HotBeefDip | LtL were you able to install FF 69 without adding unstable to your apt sources? |
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| 00:13.15 | HotBeefDip | if so...how? |
| 00:13.23 | LtL | HotBeefDip: absolutely yes, no unstable source |
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| 00:14.34 | LtL | HotBeefDip: just extract the tarball in $HOME and run it. i put a symlink on my desktop and it launches by default, don't recall how i did that |
| 00:14.50 | HotBeefDip | LtL awesome, thanks so much! |
| 00:14.57 | LtL | HotBeefDip: cheers |
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| 00:18.13 | HotBeefDip | would someone mind having a quick read through this and tell me if there's any potential downsides to this approach? I believe this will make the current release of Firefox the 'default' browser under Buster without getting rid of Firefox ESR...but I'm not entirely sure I understand exactly what these commands do |
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| 00:19.11 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 00:20.05 | LtL | HotBeefDip: you can certainly do it that way |
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| 00:25.34 | LtL | HotBeefDip: Be aware it won't update via apt, you need to click the 'help' menubar and 'about' to update FF. |
| 00:25.50 | HotBeefDip | LtL yeah, I figured as much...thx |
| 00:26.09 | LtL | Atleast I doubt it will update via apt. pretty sure. |
| 00:26.23 | jmaher | grub-install --target=x86_64-efi crashes my machine - is there some easy way to find out why? (the machine boots most of the time, but sometimes just to the grub shell) |
| 00:26.43 | LtL | it just went to version 69 a couple days ago. |
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| 00:28.39 | LtL | jmaher: i'm still MBR booting but wouldn't that command require a /dev/sda block device target? just guessing. |
| 00:29.44 | jmaher | LtL: its got a lot of mmcblk devices - how do i know whuch one to use? Also it's efi |
| 00:30.36 | LtL | jmaher: no idea when it comes to uefi booting, hopefully someone will help you. |
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| 00:31.38 | LtL | jmaher: the lsblk command comes to mind. |
| 00:32.49 | LtL | jmaher: strange that it boots 'sometimes.' |
| 00:34.01 | jmaher | LtL: it nearly always boots to the grub command line and I can load with configfile whatever, but sometimes it just works... |
| 00:35.08 | LtL | jmaher: thats very odd, if you can't find help here possibly ##linux has ideas. |
| 00:35.50 | jmaher | running grub-install -v gets up to: grub-install: info: setting EFI variable Boot0002. |
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| 00:49.14 | LtL | HotBeefDip: I failed to mention, buster is due for a point release on saturday, maybe synaptic fix is included. buster 10.1 |
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| 00:53.20 | SerajewelKS | next time i set up a raid1 i need to do an ata secure-erase on the members so i can use --assume-clean |
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| 00:54.13 | HotBeefDip | LtL thx for that...just follow the steps here, right? https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade |
| 00:54.56 | LtL | HotBeefDip: thanks, i'm no stranger to upgrades :) |
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| 00:55.13 | HotBeefDip | also, the part that says "# For major release upgrades only"...does that mean from 9.0 to 10.0 etc.? |
| 00:55.36 | HotBeefDip | would 10.0 to 10.1 be classified under the "# For regular/minor upgrades"...?? |
| 00:55.56 | cluelessperson | no. |
| 00:56.35 | cluelessperson | HotBeefDip MajorMinor in relation to versioning means, Major.Minor, like 19.04 |
| 00:56.51 | cluelessperson | So major release upgrades would be 18.04 -> 19.04 |
| 00:57.24 | cluelessperson | HotBeefDip Personally, while you can certainly do that, often without much worry, I prefer to just completely reinstall |
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| 00:57.56 | cluelessperson | I prefer to just have nice usable backups of my personal data, and just reinstall "cleanly", but it's really not needed |
| 00:58.06 | HotBeefDip | cluelessperson you do a complete reinstall for point releases? as in, from 10.0 -> 10.1? |
| 00:58.18 | cluelessperson | HotBeefDip no. |
| 00:58.20 | LtL | HotBeefDip: no no oh no |
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| 00:58.27 | HotBeefDip | I'm confused |
| 00:58.44 | cluelessperson | HotBeefDip point releases are minor. Major(.)Minor |
| 00:59.02 | awal1 | like Stretch ---> Buster |
| 00:59.25 | cluelessperson | The only reason I like to "cleanly" reinstall, is because I sometimes install crap without paying attention to versioning/compatibility |
| 00:59.41 | cluelessperson | so by "cleanly" reinstalling, I'm avoiding compatibility issues. |
| 00:59.55 | cluelessperson | and it enforces my backup policies. |
| 01:00.14 | cluelessperson | That I maintain user data redundancy that I can quickly reload on other machines. |
| 01:00.20 | LtL | HotBeefDip: not to worry, it'll be a piece of cake upgrade |
| 01:01.07 | HotBeefDip | cluelessperson so...going from 10.0 to 10.1...what type of upgrade would that be classified as? major? or minor? |
| 01:01.16 | LtL | minor |
| 01:01.18 | cluelessperson | minor |
| 01:01.33 | HotBeefDip | cluelessperson that's what I asked, and you said "no"...lol |
| 01:01.37 | awal1 | not possible to get netflix working on chromium/firefox without installing Chrome or widevine stuff eh? |
| 01:02.23 | cluelessperson | HotBeefDip You asked two questions, I answered the first, not the second. ;) |
| 01:02.36 | cluelessperson | awal1 and why not? |
| 01:02.50 | awal1 | why not? |
| 01:03.02 | cluelessperson | HotBeefDip so slow down, ask one thing at a time. yes. 10.0 -> 10.1 would be minor |
| 01:03.12 | HotBeefDip | cluelessperson so...the first question was "the part that says # For major release upgrades only...does that mean from 9.0 to 10.0 etc.?" |
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| 01:03.51 | cluelessperson | so I misread the question, who cares |
| 01:03.54 | awal1 | so videos won't play bcoz of drm |
| 01:04.02 | cluelessperson | 10.0 -> 10.1 is minor. 10.0 -> 11.0 is major. |
| 01:04.07 | cluelessperson | :P |
| 01:04.22 | awal1 | even if widevine plugin enabled by default on ff |
| 01:04.42 | cluelessperson | awal1 drm is stupid |
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| 01:05.10 | awal1 | play drm also enabled on ff |
| 01:05.43 | awal1 | well, the problem is not about stupidity, it is that you can't play movie :P |
| 01:05.59 | cluelessperson | awal1 sounds like an excellent reason to watch the movie in other ways |
| 01:06.46 | cluelessperson | DRM is basically malware. |
| 01:07.36 | cluelessperson | It's unknown, shady software, injected into things you purchase, without clear consent, directive, purpose. |
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| 01:07.53 | cluelessperson | At best it's questionable, at worst it's a huge security issue. |
| 01:08.27 | HotBeefD_ | I got disconnected...sorry |
| 01:09.40 | HotBeefD_ | just to confirm, going from 9.0 to 10.0 is NOT a "major release upgrade"? |
| 01:09.55 | LtL | that would be yes |
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| 01:10.08 | LtL | thats stretch to buster |
| 01:10.08 | awal1 | dpkg: stable branch |
| 01:10.10 | dpkg | awal1: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
| 01:10.24 | cluelessperson | HotBeefD_ 10.0 -> 10.1 is minor. 10.0 -> 11.0 is major. |
| 01:10.39 | cluelessperson | major(.)minor |
| 01:10.39 | awal1 | HotBeefD_, ^ |
| 01:10.50 | LtL | HotBeefD_: consider a point release as bug fixes, thats all. |
| 01:11.06 | HotBeefD_ | ok, thx...I must have misunderstood your reply from earlier |
| 01:11.15 | HotBeefD_ | I think I got it now |
| 01:11.19 | awal1 | dpkg: debian releases |
| 01:11.19 | dpkg | Named after "Toy Story" characters. Buzz(1.1; 1996-03-14), Rex(1.2; 1996-10-28), Bo(1.3; 1997-05-01), Hamm(2.0; 1998-07-24), Slink(2.1; 1999-03-09), Potato(2.2; 2000-08-15), Woody(3.0; 2002-07-19), Sarge(3.1; 2005-06-06), Etch(4.0; 2007-04-08), Lenny(5.0; 2009-02-14), Squeeze(6.0; 2011-02-06), Wheezy(7; 2013-05-04), Jessie(8; 2015-04-25), Stretch (9; 2017-06-17), Buster (10; 2019-07-06). Next: Bullseye. http://deb.li/it56U |
| 01:12.22 | awal1 | HotBeefD_, ^ major release of debian (stable) |
| 01:12.31 | LtL | /me started with woody iirc. |
| 01:12.50 | cluelessperson | HotBeefD_ I misread your question, so your further confusion was my fault. |
| 01:13.12 | HotBeefD_ | cluelessperson all good...no problem |
| 01:13.29 | awal1 | 10,1 , .2, .3 ... are menor improvements /bug fixes of the same version/release |
| 01:13.51 | awal1 | major is almost every 2 years |
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| 01:15.55 | cluelessperson | HotBeefD_ basically, organizers often plan major software changes with large version changes. |
| 01:16.18 | cluelessperson | HotBeefD_ it's a human pattern to make it easier to identify if something will be incompatible with other things |
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| 01:17.14 | cluelessperson | small changes are just thrown in as point releases |
| 01:17.34 | cluelessperson | big changes that break many other things are avoided |
| 01:17.39 | cluelessperson | unless they're absolutely required |
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| 01:21.04 | HotBeefD_ | can someone tell me if there's a way to use this command without specifying the path to a file? gedit admin:///etc/default/apport |
| 01:21.20 | HotBeefD_ | in other words, can I just use this to open gedit as root without also opening a file? |
| 01:21.33 | HotBeefD_ | apparently gksudo is the way it used to work and that's not in buster...? |
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| 01:22.17 | LtL | HotBeefD_: use a x-terminal-emulator editor |
| 01:24.49 | LtL | HotBeefD_: in other words, a bash shell terminal and nano, vim, vi, or emacs if you like pain. |
| 01:26.03 | HotBeefD_ | is it a bad idea to run graphical apps with admin privileges? or is it just difficult for some reason? |
| 01:26.22 | LtL | HotBeefD_: bad idea in general. |
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| 01:26.38 | LtL | why would you want to? |
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| 01:27.09 | HotBeefD_ | because I'm transitioning from Windows and my command line skills are rudimentary at best |
| 01:27.36 | LtL | HotBeefD_: we all started there dude |
| 01:27.39 | HotBeefD_ | in other words, I'm trying to keep the training wheels on...at least to start with |
| 01:28.05 | mortonmuggsy | bro, just sudo! |
| 01:28.58 | HotBeefD_ | mortonmuggsy sudo gedit doesn't work |
| 01:29.18 | HotBeefD_ | and gksudo doesn't exist anymore |
| 01:29.29 | mortonmuggsy | never run a gui using sudo |
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| 01:29.49 | HotBeefD_ | lol |
| 01:30.19 | SerajewelKS | what exactly is the linux strategy for accelerating writes to HDD RAID1s? the kernel facilities like dm-cache and lvmcache using an SSD RAID1 seem to be implicated in kernel panics and strange storage corruption after unexpected shutdowns |
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| 01:32.51 | SerajewelKS | i don't care much about reads but writes are pretty slow since md has to sync two disks |
| 01:33.47 | LtL | HotBeefD_: learn nano in a terminal, it's pretty easy |
| 01:34.06 | HotBeefD_ | LtL thanks |
| 01:35.23 | LtL | HotBeefD_: by default [i think] nano makes a backup of any file you edit with the same name with a tilde, eg myfile~ |
| 01:36.08 | LtL | HotBeefD_: always make a copy of any important file using 'cp' |
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| 01:40.14 | nvz | HotBeefD_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFnOfpIJL0M |
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| 01:42.09 | nvz | HotBeefD_: pkexec |
| 01:42.50 | nvz | HotBeefD_: is the modern gksu replacement using policykit |
| 01:43.44 | nvz | HotBeefD_: and natuilus/caja have extensions for stuff like that |
| 01:43.48 | nvz | ,nautilus-admin |
| 01:43.54 | nvz | ,i nautilus-admin |
| 01:43.55 | judd | Package nautilus-admin (gnome, optional) in buster/amd64: Extension for Nautilus to do administrative operations. Version: 1.1.9-2; Size: 9.9k; Installed: 66k; Homepage: https://github.com/brunonova/nautilus-admin |
| 01:44.02 | nvz | ,i caja-admin |
| 01:44.03 | judd | Package caja-admin (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: Add administrative actions to Caja's right-click menu. Version: 0.0.1-2; Size: 11.7k; Installed: 80k; Homepage: https://github.com/infirit/caja-admin/ |
| 01:44.29 | nvz | for editing files and such |
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| 01:45.39 | HotBeefD_ | what I'm trying to do seems like it should be fairly easy but I'm having a hell of a time, even when I try to lookup instructions...I need to open the firefox-esr.desktop file from /usr/share/applications, make some changes to it (I want to use it as a template to make a firefox.desktop file for the release version of firefox) and save it under a different name (firefox.desktop)...can I open the file with nano and save it under a |
| 01:45.41 | HotBeefD_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:46.27 | nvz | you should 1) use a menu editor program like menulibre and/or 2) copy the file to your homedir |
| 01:47.04 | jmcnaught | SerajewelKS: I use lvmcache with a single SSD and two HDDs in RAID1 and haven't noticed any problems. Have you tried dm-writecache instead? dm-cache also has a writeback mode that might work for you. I was just reading about them in lvmcache(7). |
| 01:47.36 | nvz | global .desktop files are in /usr/share/applications and they are overridden on a per-user basis by the local ~/.local/share/applications/ files |
| 01:47.38 | SerajewelKS | jmcnaught: right, lvmcache with writeback is what i'm looking at. (BTW writeback is unsafe unless the cache is redundant as well. hope you're using writethrough!) |
| 01:47.59 | nvz | HotBeefD_: global .desktop files are in /usr/share/applications and they are overridden on a per-user basis by the local ~/.local/share/applications/ files. You shouldn't modify the global files |
| 01:48.25 | jmcnaught | SerajewelKS: I'm using writethrough. |
| 01:49.06 | HotBeefD_ | nvz so, can I make a copy of firefox-esr.desktop, save it in ~/.local/share/applications using the name "firefox.desktop" and make changes to it so it works with the release version of Firefox? |
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| 01:50.25 | HotBeefD_ | ...assuming Firefox is installed in /opt/firefox...? |
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| 01:54.00 | nvz | HotBeefD_: any file in a local user dir overrides the same file in a global dir of the same name |
| 01:54.27 | nvz | ,i menulibre |
| 01:54.28 | judd | Package menulibre (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: advanced FreeDesktop.org compliant menu editor. Version: 2.2.0-2; Size: 147.2k; Installed: 1439k; Homepage: https://launchpad.net/menulibre; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/menulibre |
| 01:54.48 | nvz | HotBeefD_: however you can just use a menu editor or something |
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| 01:55.15 | HotBeefD_ | so, if I want to create a NEW desktop file which currently does not exist in either of those folders...can I place it in either folder? |
| 01:55.39 | HotBeefD_ | firefox.desktop does not currently exist and I want to create it |
| 01:55.51 | HotBeefD_ | I just want to use firefox-esr.desktop as a template |
| 01:56.01 | HotBeefD_ | where do I put the file I want to create? |
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| 01:56.48 | nvz | cp /usr/share/applications/firefox-esr.desktop ~/.local/share/applications/firefox.desktop |
| 01:57.05 | HotBeefD_ | nvz thank you |
| 01:57.51 | nvz | I have shortcuts for Netflix (Buster Firefox-esr) and Xfinity Stream (Windows Firefox running in Crossover) both I have custom profiles for that are lanuched by the desktop entries with those profiles which have a custom UserChrome.css which makes the windows appear without scroll/menu/tool bars and such |
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| 02:00.39 | nvz | HotBeefD_: https://i.imgur.com/NPJ7fTE.png |
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| 02:03.26 | SerajewelKS | jmcnaught: thanks for the writecache pointer though, didn't know that existed. looks like it's new in 4.18. and lvmcache supports it. |
| 02:04.44 | SerajewelKS | i'm setting up a KVM VM to fiddle with it |
| 02:05.39 | nvz | the KVM which I suppose is aptly named confuses me cause KVM has meant something else for a long time |
| 02:06.01 | nvz | it was a hardware switch for using a single Keyboard/Video/Mouse on many machines |
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| 02:09.18 | SerajewelKS | yeah i remember using those too |
| 02:09.46 | nvz | yeah well thats the thing.. I've used a KVM switch.. I've never used a Kernel Virtual Machine |
| 02:09.53 | nvz | so when I hear KVM I think of the old meaning |
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| 02:10.11 | SerajewelKS | makes a note to call it qemu-kvm for the sake of nvz's sanity |
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| 02:10.51 | nvz | better than calling it a KVM VM |
| 02:10.52 | nvz | heh |
| 02:10.59 | nvz | thats kinda redundant |
| 02:11.37 | SerajewelKS | it's redundant the same way "fuse filesystem" is redundant |
| 02:12.01 | SerajewelKS | it still makes sense, in that KVM is the noun describing the kernel virtualization layer and a VM is what you run on it |
| 02:12.28 | SerajewelKS | "a KVM VM" sounds less weird to me than "a KVM" |
| 02:12.40 | SerajewelKS | and the former disambiguates it from the physical switch :) |
| 02:12.49 | nvz | there isn't really a fuse filesystem.. fuse is a driver framework |
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| 02:14.18 | nvz | oh well I guess there are always confusing things like how on Windows your computer is on your desktop, when the desktop is in the C: in the computer |
| 02:14.30 | nvz | its like some kinda m.c. escher thing |
| 02:14.49 | SerajewelKS | you can refer to sshfs as a "fuse filesystem" |
| 02:14.59 | SerajewelKS | just like i can refer to lvmcache-test as a KVM VM |
| 02:15.16 | SerajewelKS | yeah we use the terms how they make sense |
| 02:15.25 | SerajewelKS | and they make sense in context, and sometimes context is weird |
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| 02:23.06 | SerajewelKS | jmcnaught: "unrecognised segment type writecache" |
| 02:23.12 | SerajewelKS | neat, so the docs on buster lie :/ |
| 02:23.36 | nvz | the docs do that sometimes |
| 02:24.32 | HotBeefD_ | ok, I think I got it working...but the icon isn't showing up...the line for my icon looks like this "Icon=/browser/chrome/icons/default/default128.png" |
| 02:25.03 | HotBeefD_ | I put the path relative to the folder that the binary is in, from the Exec line...is that how I'm supposed to do it? |
| 02:25.44 | nvz | that isn't a relative path |
| 02:25.50 | nvz | any path starting with / is an absolute path |
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| 02:26.01 | HotBeefD_ | oh...pfft...duh...thanks nvz |
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| 02:26.44 | nvz | and afaik there is no way for a relative path to work in a desktop file |
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| 02:27.09 | nvz | unless maybe the paths were relative to the desktop file itself |
| 02:27.14 | HotBeefD_ | so I need to give it the full path to the icon file starting at / ? |
| 02:28.27 | nvz | though icons it may work realitve to normal icon paths |
| 02:28.46 | nvz | but if you're program is in /opt/program/ then yeah, you're gonna need absolute paths |
| 02:29.02 | nvz | cause the icons aren't in /usr/share/pixmaps or /usr/share/icons |
| 02:29.13 | HotBeefD_ | nvz it worked, much thanks! |
| 02:30.18 | nvz | iirc if your icons are in the normal icon path, you don't need a path at all in the desktop file just the icon name |
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| 02:30.57 | HotBeefD_ | I thought maybe the desktop file would automagically relate the path to the icon from the location of the binary specified on the Exec line...now I know |
| 02:30.58 | HotBeefD_ | https://media.giphy.com/media/3og0IMJcSI8p6hYQXS/giphy.gif |
| 02:31.05 | SerajewelKS | this is the second doc bug i've submitted this week :P |
| 02:31.16 | nvz | I don't even bother anymore.. heh |
| 02:31.36 | nvz | One manpage had like over a hundred lines duplicated.. afaik it was never addressed |
| 02:31.45 | SerajewelKS | i feel like i probably shouldn't bitch about them if i don't at least tell the maintainer about the issue |
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| 02:32.03 | nvz | I'd filed a bug many years ago against samba-doc for including Oreilly's Using Samba guide which is a work of fantasy fiction |
| 02:32.53 | nvz | when I talked to the upstream devs they said the only way samba could work as described in there is if it was completely rewritten from scratch |
| 02:34.11 | SerajewelKS | the only thing worse than no docs is wrong docs |
| 02:34.29 | SerajewelKS | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=939535 |
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| 02:34.44 | nvz | #939535 |
| 02:34.51 | nvz | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:34.58 | nvz | or not |
| 02:35.05 | nvz | ,debbugs 939535 |
| 02:35.08 | SerajewelKS | the bot used to trigger on links too |
| 02:35.23 | nvz | judd: put the bong down and get back to work |
| 02:36.11 | nvz | dpkg, yinzersmite judd |
| 02:36.11 | dpkg | runsover judd, wit an ambleelunce gowen a hunnert mallanahr. |
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| 02:39.00 | nvz | dpkg cmd: yinzersmite (.*?) =~ s/mallanahr./mallanahr dahn da bulvard./ |
| 02:39.00 | dpkg | OK, nvz |
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| 02:52.39 | annadane | judd, bug 939535 |
| 02:52.40 | judd | Sorry, the requested bug was not found. |
| 02:52.58 | annadane | because it's new |
| 02:53.20 | annadane | judd, bug 800000 |
| 02:53.21 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/800000 in src:vdr-plugin-prefermenu (closed, sid): «vdr-plugin-prefermenu: FTBFS: Can't open /usr/share/vdr-dev/dependencies.sh»; severity: serious; opened: 2015-09-25; last modified: 2015-11-02. |
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| 04:04.34 | SerajewelKS | i just tested writing 20 64MB files on two volumes, one raid1 and one not redundant, using dd conv=fsync. both tests took about 13 seconds to complete 20 files. |
| 04:04.49 | SerajewelKS | this is a bit surprising to me, i would have expected the raid1 to be quite a bit slower |
| 04:05.12 | SerajewelKS | in these tests it was only 30ms slower per file |
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| 04:05.56 | jelly-home | those files are small, each might fit in a SATA device's cache |
| 04:06.53 | SerajewelKS | hmm |
| 04:07.39 | jelly-home | 1.25GB total is probably large enough to offset that even if a drive lies about having written down first one or two |
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| 04:09.14 | jelly-home | (but also, no reason for two parallel writes of same size to similar devices be significantly slower than a single write to a single device) |
| 04:12.49 | SerajewelKS | FWIW the non-redundant drive is a 1TB WD Red, the array is built out of three drives: RAID1(6TB, RAID0(3TB, 3TB)) |
| 04:12.55 | SerajewelKS | all are also WD Red |
| 04:13.20 | SerajewelKS | my understanding was that fsync() against a software raid1 is generally going to be slower than writes to a bare drive |
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| 04:13.53 | SerajewelKS | i could benefit from an SSD write cache still, but i guess that mdraid isn't really adding as much overhead to writes as i thought |
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| 04:15.02 | SerajewelKS | if you're wondering about the odd raid1 setup, it's because i had RAID1(3TB, 3TB) and needed more space, i thought i could either buy 2x 6TB disks or just buy one, put the two 3TBs in a RAID0 and then make a RAID1 out of it and the 6TB drive |
| 04:15.52 | SerajewelKS | it actually works fairly well. one of the 3TB drives failed about a month later. :) got a new one for free since there was still about six months in the warranty period, popped it back in, had to manually recreate the RAID0 but everything's been fine since then. |
| 04:16.16 | SerajewelKS | my only gripe is that md never automatically kicked the raid0 and i have no idea why, with the kernel log full of read errors |
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| 04:17.03 | SerajewelKS | the rebuild was fine but until i noticed that something was wrong, the server was basically in an I/O death spiral |
| 04:17.19 | SerajewelKS | took me a few minutes to ssh in. as soon as i kicked the raid0 out of the mirror everything started responding again. |
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| 05:43.07 | ratrace | SerajewelKS: read errors loged by md or a layer above it? |
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| 06:00.47 | alphazulu | when I run /usr/share/docker.io/contrib/check-config.sh it shows a bunch of 'missing' with linux-image-5.2.0-2-amd64. docker fails to start |
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| 06:05.25 | at0m | ,v mpd |
| 06:05.27 | judd | Package: mpd on amd64 -- jessie: 0.19.1-1.1; stretch: 0.19.21-1; buster: 0.21.5-3; bullseye: 0.21.13-1; sid: 0.21.13-1; stretch-multimedia: 1:0.19.21-dmo4; buster-multimedia: 1:0.21.11-dmo1; bullseye-multimedia: 1:0.21.14-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 1:0.21.14-dmo1 |
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| 06:10.46 | SerajewelKS | ratrace: cascading iirc. failed from the disk and subsequently the raid0. i suppose the mirror wouldn't kick the raid0 before trying to repair the bad sector |
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| 06:22.57 | Lady_Aleena | How do I stop pulse audio temporarily? Then how do I restart it? |
| 06:24.02 | alphazulu | Lady_Aleena: man pulseaudio has some good info |
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| 06:42.19 | at0m | pulseaudio -k or --kill, and --start |
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| 07:04.36 | ZaZaGX | hi |
| 07:05.06 | EoflaOE | Hello ZaZaGX |
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| 07:24.16 | Starhowl | Hello, ZNC won't start up as a service, I got the error messages. Someone there who could help me out with that? |
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| 07:30.27 | Starhowl | Here's the error message: https://pastebin.com/VfnR5DDK |
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| 07:31.54 | schangg | Hi |
| 07:32.23 | schangg | I got a sudo question. I want all memebers of the sudo group to be able able to run apt-get without being prompted for a password |
| 07:32.30 | schangg | I have added the following to /etc/sudoers |
| 07:32.36 | schangg | %sudo ALL=NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/apt-get |
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| 07:32.57 | schangg | then from a user belonging to group sudo I am still being asked for a password |
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| 07:33.35 | schangg | I've found several examples of people who managed to do it this way so I wonder why it does not work for me |
| 07:33.38 | schangg | any clue ? |
| 07:33.51 | Ticho | try adding a '*' after the command in that sudoers line |
| 07:33.59 | EoflaOE | schangg: Can you pastebin the output of /etc/sudoers? Might be ordering issue. |
| 07:34.08 | Ticho | IIRC your current line as you pasted it only allows calling /usr/bin/apt-get without any arguments |
| 07:34.20 | ratrace | schangg: %sudo ALL=ALL NOPASSWD:/usr/bin/apt-get |
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| 07:34.57 | Ticho | ah, right... disregard what I wrote, ratrace has the answer :) |
| 07:35.19 | schangg | ratrace visudo is not happy with what you propose |
| 07:35.33 | ratrace | schangg: then do (ALL:ALL) instead of the second ALL aftre = |
| 07:35.59 | ratrace | schangg: btw, you already have a %sudo line by default, just copy it it add NOPASSWD:... |
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| 07:36.23 | schangg | works now thanks |
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| 07:49.51 | otyugh | Hey. Naive question : why does services like sshd (openssh-server) or smbd (samba) wait for target multi-user (hanging the boot process) while they could wait for the "network.target" hence gaining a lot of time at bootup ? |
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| 07:50.21 | vilpan | hi all, I've got a gpg upgrade stuck on 9.9 - http://paste.debian.net/hidden/8cc7ce69/ |
| 07:50.21 | vilpan | I've got libreoffice from stretch-backports, so I guess that's why gpg was pulled in from backports. I suppose this could be fixed by manually installing libgpg-error0 from backpors. Just wondering if this should be reported - doesn't look normal for upgrade to break due to a package from backports. |
| 07:50.21 | vilpan | On the other hand, the package from backports being libreoffice I'm surprised it has not been reported already (querybts does not show anything related for either gpg or libgpg-error0), so there might be something else at play I'm not aware of yet. |
| 07:50.21 | vilpan | Any suggestions? |
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| 07:53.58 | ratrace | otyugh: a lot of defaults aren't quite sane for all use cases. you can always override if this bothers you |
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| 07:54.35 | ratrace | otyugh: also, iirc network-online.target would be a more appropriate dependency |
| 07:54.41 | otyugh | ratrace, I will override them, but I'm always curious because sometimes weird choices are sane ones |
| 07:55.08 | otyugh | Also I wonder, is editing directly the .service file the way to go about this ? |
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| 07:55.15 | ratrace | otyugh: there are a lot of things I dislike about how the maintainers have set up service units, and for most of those the answer is to be compatibele with sysv which is _still_ supported |
| 07:55.25 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:55.47 | ratrace | otyugh: no it's not. run systemctl edit <service name> and it'll pre-create the drop-in directories under /etc/systemd/system/ |
| 07:56.15 | ratrace | it'll start the $EDITOR and an empty file where you override directives or add new ones |
| 07:56.21 | otyugh | ratrace did you wrote an article or some documentation about what and how you'd do ? |
| 07:56.30 | otyugh | *or have some link ^^' |
| 07:56.39 | ratrace | I didn't, just ask google "how to override systemd service" |
| 07:57.04 | otyugh | Okay, okay. Just wanted to take a peak, beacause I know I don't know much about systemd x) |
| 07:57.10 | ratrace | otyugh: or "systemd drop-in units" |
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| 07:57.58 | ratrace | otyugh: you can also just copy the entire .service from /lib/systemd/system/ into /etc/systemd/system/ it'll work too. it's just that the drop-in way is the recommended one |
| 07:58.27 | otyugh | ratrace, ideally I'd like a way to automate changes wihout using and editor. Basically I use sed. (I'm playing with custom debian system using live-build) |
| 07:58.50 | otyugh | Nice |
| 07:58.55 | otyugh | I was looking for that ! |
| 07:59.05 | ratrace | otyugh: you don't have to use an editor or systemct edit. it's just a convenience method that pre-creates the dirs. google up "systemd drop-in units" and you'll see how to set it up manually |
| 07:59.26 | otyugh | thanks you very much, it helps. |
| 07:59.31 | alkisg | otyugh: afaik, sshd doesn't need to run "after network-online"; one can e.g. just ssh to localhost |
| 07:59.49 | ratrace | otyugh: the difference is that with drop-in units you only need to write out directives you want to change or remove. by copying the entire .service into /etc/systemd/system, you need to use the entire .service WITH your modificatoin |
| 07:59.53 | alkisg | Also it doesn't need to "be stopped after network.target on shutdown"; it can be stopped before that |
| 07:59.53 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:00.09 | alkisg | So afaik multi-user.target is just fine |
| 08:00.32 | ratrace | alkisg: ssh to localhost is a very remote and edge case which doesn't really mean ssh.service shouldn't y default depend on network |
| 08:01.14 | alkisg | ratrace: this is a good read: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/NetworkTarget/ |
| 08:01.20 | otyugh | I don't ssh myself everyday alright >.> |
| 08:01.22 | alkisg | """If you are a developer, instead of wondering what to do about network.target, please just fix your program to be friendly to dynamically changing network configuration. |
| 08:02.09 | otyugh | My problem with sshd our smbd is that they can delay signifcantly the graphical.target |
| 08:02.14 | alkisg | How so? |
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| 08:02.27 | alkisg | sshd should be able to start before network.target or network-online.target |
| 08:02.28 | ratrace | alkisg: tell that to bind :) errors out with stupid DNSSEC failures if it starts before the network. I ain't gonna change thousands of lines of bind code, but I am gonna make it depend on network ;) |
| 08:02.31 | alkisg | Thus should delay none |
| 08:03.03 | alkisg | ratrace: I'm saying "correct programs like sshd shouldn't depend on network"; you're saying "bind is broken", no arguments there |
| 08:03.07 | Lady_Aleena | I try to fix the volume of my sound and fail and then I broke my keyboard volume control. |
| 08:03.11 | alkisg | My argument is against "correct programs should depend on network" |
| 08:03.16 | ratrace | alkisg: I know, I'm just venting frustration abound Bind ;) |
| 08:03.30 | otyugh | smbd delays up to 15sec and ssd without haveged >1min. When they are set to WantedBy=multi-user |
| 08:03.34 | ratrace | (being that I was just working to deal with this issue minutes ago) |
| 08:03.55 | alkisg | otyugh: sshd doesn't delay here at all; something else is wrong in your setup |
| 08:04.05 | alkisg | Try systemd-analyze blame etc etc |
| 08:04.18 | otyugh | I did spot theses lagg using this |
| 08:04.18 | ratrace | critical-chain I think shows the nice cascade with times |
| 08:04.24 | otyugh | yeah both I used |
| 08:04.34 | otyugh | That's why I can tell the time they took. |
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| 08:04.53 | alkisg | It *is* possible that other packages have bad dependencies that cause the lag; and that you've found a workaround; but the solution would be to fix the other packages, not sshd, imho |
| 08:05.45 | ratrace | I used to have problems with very laggy lightdm. found out it was due to network being hogged down by stupid idiotic avahi mdns which lagged because there's no mdns in my network |
| 08:05.59 | ratrace | none of that was obvious from the systemd-analyze |
| 08:06.13 | otyugh | Multi-user.target means "before the graphical target", systemd-analyze show that both service smdb and sshd are lagging behind, setting them to network.target makes it right. Weeell. If this is not smdb or sshd being slow for some reason, what is ? |
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| 08:06.18 | tarzeau | hah, ratrace |
| 08:06.24 | tarzeau | how did you firgure then? |
| 08:06.38 | ratrace | what put me on correct path to look into network, was DHCP logs stating it took 20+ seconds to get an IP, and after I chased a few red herrings reconfiguring the dhcp server |
| 08:07.19 | ratrace | after halfa day I thought to check if there's somethign else about network and found avahi. Nuked that piece of carp and voila! lightdm pops up immediately on boot. |
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| 08:08.29 | friendlyGoat | i upgraded to buster and now my python scripts no longer work and instead loop an error over and over until my computer vent starts to whirr as loud as it can |
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| 08:09.12 | ratrace | friendlyGoat: what do your python scripts do, and are they throwing any exceptions? |
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| 08:09.49 | friendlyGoat | theyre two shell scripts that run my discord bots |
| 08:09.53 | friendlyGoat | let me check the error again |
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| 08:10.47 | friendlyGoat | https://pastebin.com/2LaKYu4L |
| 08:10.49 | friendlyGoat | heres what it says |
| 08:11.01 | friendlyGoat | this never happened on stretch |
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| 08:13.34 | ratrace | friendlyGoat: stretch had different python3 version. are you sure your scripts are compatible with python 3.7? iirc there was some change wrt async between 3.5 and 3.7 |
| 08:13.34 | friendlyGoat | i feel incredibly stupid sharing this but my upgrade was completely by accident but im not dealing with reinstalling 9. i was gonna install something and the guide had me add some sources to my source list and i didnt realize it said buster and i didnt realize until it was too late that me using dist-upgrade was taking so long cause i was upgrading the whole os. decided forget it im gonna work with what i got i suppose so now im on 10. |
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| 08:14.00 | friendlyGoat | im not exactly sure if theyre compatible with 3.7 tbh |
| 08:14.05 | friendlyGoat | how would i tell that? |
| 08:14.25 | ratrace | friendlyGoat: if you didn't write those scripts, then check their docs, manual, ask their community |
| 08:14.35 | friendlyGoat | alright |
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| 08:15.10 | ratrace | friendlyGoat: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51196568/create-task-asyncio-async-syntaxerror-invalid-syntax |
| 08:15.31 | friendlyGoat | gonna check that link now |
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| 08:21.45 | thanasisk | hello everyone, I am packaging a nodejs application as .deb - postinst works fine BUT when i do apt remove or apt purge, postrm is executed and then postinst is executed again |
| 08:22.04 | StyXman | I have a routing problem: https://paste.debian.net/1099166/ clients A and B are in different networks, use the same default gateway which obviously can route to each one, but A can't reach B and viceversa. |
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| 08:24.37 | StyXman | thanasisk: that's weird, are you sure your postrm isn't calling postinst? can you show the output? |
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| 08:26.54 | Lady_Aleena | Does anyone know where I set up my keyboard volume control keys to work universally? |
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| 08:27.29 | wumpalumpa1 | hi people |
| 08:27.35 | wumpalumpa1 | anyone using parrot security? |
| 08:27.43 | wumpalumpa1 | where is the report folder? |
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| 08:29.13 | StyXman | Lady_Aleena: it depends a lot, some programs do it themselves, some DEs do it. which desktop are you using? |
| 08:29.23 | Lady_Aleena | XFCE 4.12.5 |
| 08:29.42 | Gabriel_7 | StyXman: Config looks fine. Not a problem of packet filtering ? (iptables, etc.) |
| 08:29.52 | wumpalumpa1 | I am using mate |
| 08:29.54 | wumpalumpa1 | sorry |
| 08:30.05 | wumpalumpa1 | that answer wasnt for me I see |
| 08:30.14 | ratrace | wumpalumpa1: there is no parrot report folder in debian |
| 08:30.25 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: triggerhappy may help in combination with something like amixer |
| 08:30.36 | nvz | ,i triggerhappy |
| 08:30.38 | judd | Package triggerhappy (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: global hotkey daemon for Linux. Version: 0.5.0-1; Size: 31.2k; Installed: 120k; Homepage: https://github.com/wertarbyte/triggerhappy |
| 08:31.23 | StyXman | Gabriel_7: I turned off the fw for testing: nothing changed |
| 08:31.25 | thanasisk | StyXman: which pastebin should I use? |
| 08:31.40 | wumpalumpa1 | ratrace |
| 08:31.44 | nvz | triggerhappy is as universal as it gets, works in console or anything, and has different profiles and hotkeys can switch between them |
| 08:31.46 | StyXman | Lady_Aleena: maybe you need to figure xfce's mixer app |
| 08:31.48 | wumpalumpa1 | I am using Parrot Security 4.6 distro |
| 08:31.52 | wumpalumpa1 | wich is based on Debian |
| 08:31.55 | wumpalumpa1 | just starting to use |
| 08:31.58 | wumpalumpa1 | never before |
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| 08:32.07 | wumpalumpa1 | I need to read manual I know |
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| 08:32.21 | StyXman | thanasisk: any you like |
| 08:32.53 | at0m | !based on debian |
| 08:32.54 | Lady_Aleena | StyXman, I didn't know XFCE had a mixer app. All I can find is pavucontrol. |
| 08:32.59 | nvz | wumpalumpa1: this channel is for support of Debian stable, we are users of Debian stable, we know nothing about parrots |
| 08:33.00 | StyXman | thanasisk: also paste both scripts |
| 08:33.06 | StyXman | hmmm |
| 08:33.13 | at0m | !parrot |
| 08:33.21 | at0m | ok i'm all off here |
| 08:33.24 | dpkg | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
| 08:33.46 | ayekat | poor dpkg is a bit slow today :-/ |
| 08:33.51 | nvz | dpkg, yinzersmite yourself |
| 08:33.51 | dpkg | pahds yourself fer behavin like an ig'nent yinzer. |
| 08:33.52 | StyXman | Lady_Aleena: maybe xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin? |
| 08:33.57 | at0m | ah seems i'm ok, nvz indeed |
| 08:34.03 | at0m | !parrot |
| 08:34.03 | dpkg | Parrot OS (https://www.parrotsec.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrotsec on Freenode, the community pages https://docs.parrotsec.org/community, or try the mailing lists at http://lists.parrotsec.org/listinfo. Also ask me about <based on debian>. |
| 08:34.27 | Lady_Aleena | Already install StyXman |
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| 08:36.02 | at0m | HH:33:25 <dpkg> You already asked me something 2 seconds ago. <- err |
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| 08:37.50 | StyXman | Lady_Aleena: does it have any kind of UI? |
| 08:38.02 | Lady_Aleena | I don't think so. |
| 08:38.08 | thanasisk | StyXman: here you go https://pastebin.com/bf7YHDGq |
| 08:38.12 | Lady_Aleena | I just asked in #cfce |
| 08:38.20 | Lady_Aleena | #xfce |
| 08:38.23 | nvz | Allowing anything a DE does to control your hotkeys is not "universal" hotkey->keyboard bios->kernel->xorg->DE |
| 08:38.40 | StyXman | thanasisk: sorry, I have to go, kid and park |
| 08:38.46 | nvz | hotkeys in DEs don't even work if something captures focus like you have a menu open or something |
| 08:39.08 | thanasisk | StyXman: no problem thanks |
| 08:39.08 | nvz | if I click on my calendar, right click on my panel, etc.. none of my hotkeys will work |
| 08:39.53 | nvz | universal hotkey control is done at or just above the kernel level not floating over xorg |
| 08:40.03 | nvz | thd (triggerhappy) does this |
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| 08:41.33 | Lady_Aleena | Why do I have a bad feeling that I may have to nuke my system and reinstall Buster? My volume keys worked up until I turned off pulseaudio to test something, and now the keys don't work unless I am in a program like VLC to turn down the volume. |
| 08:42.51 | Starhowl | What's the best service to install for having a terminal access from my Windows-laptop via Putty? |
| 08:43.14 | thanasisk | Starhowl: openssh, if I understand your question properly |
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| 08:43.33 | Starhowl | How can I check if it's installed and running as a service? |
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| 08:45.10 | thanasisk | Starhowl: service sshd status |
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| 08:46.03 | wumpalumpa1 | thanks a lot |
| 08:46.05 | wumpalumpa1 | I go to #parrotsec then |
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| 08:47.05 | annadane | wumpalumpa1, if you just want to use linux in general i'd suggest starting with debian |
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| 08:48.00 | Lady_Aleena | Is it possible to open a program too early after reboot where some things don't work with it? |
| 08:48.04 | ratrace | Lady_Aleena: I do this for i3-wm but I think you can do it with .Xsessionrc for any DE, bind multimedia volume keys to amixer or even pavucontrol |
| 08:49.53 | ratrace | pactl, not pavucontrol |
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| 08:53.19 | Lady_Aleena | ratrace, I think I opened VLC too early after rebooting my computer and getting into XFCE. The volume control keys may not have loaded in the background. I closed and reopened VLC, and the keys now work. |
| 08:53.38 | SASDOE | hey all, since I've upgrade to 5.2.0 I have lost wireless. I have a realtek r8822be whose driver was merged into the new rtw88 and rtwpci. lshw shows the network as unmanaged and lspci shows it's using rtwpci (but not rtw88). I'm at a loss as to what step to take next |
| 08:53.59 | Lady_Aleena | I need my DEs to now allow me to open things until everything is fully loaded in the background. |
| 08:54.08 | Lady_Aleena | s/now/not/; |
| 08:54.14 | Starhowl | thanasisk, Unit sshd.service could not be found. |
| 08:54.24 | nvz | thinks is possible for people to ignore him |
| 08:54.28 | ratrace | Lady_Aleena: not sure I understand your use case there |
| 08:54.45 | ratrace | Starhowl: ssh.service |
| 08:54.49 | nvz | already explained that DE control of hotkeys is so high level it is suceptible to focus stealing |
| 08:54.51 | SASDOE | Lady_Aleena: how are your keys configured? if they are simply sneding keyboard events there is not reason it shouldnt work |
| 08:55.04 | Starhowl | ratrace, command not found |
| 08:55.19 | ratrace | Starhowl: that's not a command lol but service name. not sshd but ssh, no dee |
| 08:55.34 | Lady_Aleena | Guys! They are working now. |
| 08:56.12 | SASDOE | Lady_Aleena: in the same place you told VLC to start at boot, start XEV and test away |
| 08:56.25 | Starhowl | ratrace, what did you recommend me to do then? |
| 08:56.45 | SASDOE | Lady_Aleena: otherwise there's a simple workaround to create it as a script and make it sleep |
| 08:57.03 | nvz | they were always working, everone is just not paying attention to what I've been saying :P |
| 08:57.21 | nvz | you are catching hotkeys after they've already been processed half a dozen times |
| 08:57.22 | ratrace | Starhowl: I was just correcting your usage of sshd, there's no such service, the service name is ssh. and yes, openssh-server (the package) sets it up, and that's the response to your orig question |
| 08:57.55 | nvz | this is the problem with puttin a hotkey daemon as the last in line to get a keystroke |
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| 08:58.23 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, too many people are typing at me at the same time. |
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| 08:58.49 | ratrace | Starhowl: your last question was "How can I check if it's installed and running as a service?", and you were told service sshd status which is wrong, the service name is ssh. no d |
| 08:59.06 | ratrace | also consider using systemctl directly, not the service wrapper |
| 08:59.17 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: the difference between what I said and what anyone else said is, I'm not guessing :P |
| 08:59.27 | humpled | :v |
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| 09:00.51 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: there is some learning curve but should you want universal hotkey control and maximum flexibility, triggerhappy is the solution as I recall it can handle any key events, before X ever sees them, and it can switch modes using various assigned triggers so you can remap the same triggers to different things within different contexts |
| 09:01.09 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, is triggerhappy a terminal application or gui application? |
| 09:01.19 | nvz | triggerhappy like most hotkey things is a daemon |
| 09:01.44 | nvz | it as far as I know unlike most DE settings daemons has no dconf/gsettings or gui config tool |
| 09:01.48 | Lady_Aleena | There is no man for triggerhappy, which is so sad. |
| 09:02.10 | nvz | really? It has some kinda documentation or I'd never have used it :P |
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| 09:02.20 | Starhowl | There is such service ratrace, how can I check which ports to use when connecting? |
| 09:02.27 | ratrace | Lady_Aleena: this might help: https://github.com/wertarbyte/triggerhappy/blob/master/README |
| 09:02.54 | ratrace | Starhowl: look into /etc/ssh/sshd_config and see which ports it binds to. By default 22 |
| 09:02.55 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: na it def has a manpage, man thd |
| 09:03.05 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: thing is the package name is not the program name :P |
| 09:03.14 | ratrace | oof |
| 09:03.21 | Lady_Aleena | growls. |
| 09:03.32 | ratrace | one of those things like `df` lol |
| 09:03.35 | Lady_Aleena | Name the package the same as the command dammit! |
| 09:03.40 | ratrace | sic! |
| 09:04.39 | nvz | as I recall another interesting thing about trigger happy is that since its lower level at where it catches input, it works even when X isn't running of course, but it also provides for catch or passthrough |
| 09:04.46 | Lady_Aleena | What does triggerhappy have that xbindkeys doesn't? |
| 09:04.50 | nvz | that is it can act on a keystroke and still pass it on iirc |
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| 09:05.28 | Starhowl | Thank you, ratrace! |
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| 09:06.07 | Lady_Aleena | Maybe that is why I can't find the pulseaudio-equalizer since I installed it a little bit ago. The app name may be different, and I can't find it. |
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| 09:07.32 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, I think thd has a problem. I use it at the command line and am told command not found, even though I was able to read man thd. |
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| 09:07.52 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: idk much at all about xbindkeys but thd catches input from the kernel input and can act on any input device or combination thereof, anywhere in the system.. tty1, wherever, assign multiple things to same inputs based on modes/contexts and afaik it can also optionally pass on the event while triggering on it |
| 09:07.57 | Lady_Aleena | OH I have to be ROOT to use the damned thing? |
| 09:08.06 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: it runs as a daemon |
| 09:08.11 | Lady_Aleena | head desks. |
| 09:08.39 | Lady_Aleena | I hate having to be root for anything except installing programs. |
| 09:08.41 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: systemctl status triggerhappy |
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| 09:09.07 | nvz | it has to be running already for it to work.. its a lower-level system than the hotkeys most people use |
| 09:09.14 | Lady_Aleena | Having to be root always makes me nervous. |
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| 09:09.45 | nvz | yeah, well thd itself runs as nobody by default afaik |
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| 09:10.45 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: you may be lacking some admin-fu but you seem to be a user who appreciates control or at least configurability.. thd is more flexible than the flimsy stuff at the X level |
| 09:11.20 | nvz | I think it may be worth looking into if you want more control over inputs as it runs at a lower level and is more flexible |
| 09:11.50 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, I don't know. I'm having a bad few days with my system in general. |
| 09:12.04 | Lady_Aleena | s/system/system and some software/; |
| 09:12.40 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: you're seemingly transitioning a lot.. moving to a new release, becoming more of an admin.. you're diving deeper into the system now |
| 09:13.08 | ratrace | pops open a bottle of champagne! |
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| 09:15.07 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, there are times where I just wish I had someone who lived nearby to come over and help me sometimes. There is just so much that I may be doing wrong or have the wrong think for, that I am timid to do anything too deep. |
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| 09:17.31 | Lady_Aleena | Though I get more of a conversation here than I do on the Debian.net forums. |
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| 09:21.08 | Lady_Aleena | Another sound problem I am having is that I can't get my sound to go BELOW 20% (alsamixer won't go below 22%). I don't know why I can't get a lower volume. |
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| 09:23.23 | nvz | one of the things thd would allow you more control over.. you could specify the amixer commands to be whatever you want |
| 09:23.39 | nvz | could increment by 1% if you wanted to |
| 09:23.56 | nvz | could have different modes where it went by 1%, 5%, 10%, etc.. |
| 09:24.39 | EmleyMoor | Is there a USB, PCI or PCI-Express WiFi card I could order online confident that it will work with buster? |
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| 09:25.07 | nvz | EmleyMoor: do you really care if it has non-free firmware or not? |
| 09:25.08 | lag | Good morning |
| 09:25.19 | nvz | EmleyMoor: if it is 2.4 or 5ghz, etc |
| 09:25.20 | lag | What email address can I use to send you guys kernel patches? |
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| 09:25.31 | EmleyMoor | nvz: No, I don't mind on that score. 5GHz desireable |
| 09:25.47 | nvz | EmleyMoor: ah, ok.. well then there are a lot of options out there :P |
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| 09:26.20 | nvz | EmleyMoor: I am very pleased with the one in my T440, it does very well on battery consumption, and it supports 2.4 and 5ghz, but has non-free firmware |
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| 09:26.45 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, when I open alsamixer and try to set the master control to less than 22, the sound mutes. |
| 09:27.02 | EmleyMoor | Ubit WIE7265 any good? |
| 09:28.44 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: odd for me it seems to go at about 3 per keystroke.. 100, 97, 94, etc.. all the way down |
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| 09:29.03 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: amixer however is a command line program that does the same things and allows specific control |
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| 09:29.24 | nvz | there are examples in the thd manpage for amixer commands |
| 09:30.23 | nvz | EmleyMoor: no clue.. even with the pciid no one can say for certain really unless they've used it.. I have two wifi USB dongles here and a pcie in my T440 which all work nicely.. |
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| 09:32.21 | nvz | I could swear when I just switched sessions in lightdm I saw messages on the console window about something being "Dazed and confused" heh |
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| 09:32.53 | nvz | I can only wonder if it had been that way for so long its not true |
| 09:33.06 | nvz | or if it wanted a woman, and never bargained for you |
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| 09:33.13 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, the problem of not being able to go below 22 on alsamixer has NOTHING to do with the keyboard commands. |
| 09:33.52 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: yes I would think it may be something hardware/driver related but to confirm you'd have to try manually setting the value with something like amixer |
| 09:34.10 | SASDOE | EmleyMoor: Don't get anything realtek. I'm in a battle with it right now. they updated their driver but it's nuked my wireless |
| 09:36.52 | nvz | EmleyMoor: 03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Intel Corporation Wireless 7260 [8086:08b2] (rev 83) https://www.newegg.com/p/14U-0046-000H8?item=9SIAE8G62H8631 is what I have, its Wifi 2.4/5ghz a/c/n and bluetooth 4.0, execellent on power consumption, cheap, both functions of it work well in Stretch and Buster I've tested it.. just requires non-free firmware |
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| 09:38.53 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, well, amixer is daunting. |
| 09:39.02 | ratrace | Lady_Aleena: you can also try pactl |
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| 09:39.18 | EmleyMoor | I'd need a mini card adapter for that |
| 09:39.20 | Lady_Aleena | What is pactl? |
| 09:39.30 | ratrace | pulse audio command line ctl thingy |
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| 09:40.31 | centrix | Using top to check my CPU(s) utilization I sometimes get 120%. I suppose it means 1CPU + 20% of the other at a certain time. Correct? |
| 09:40.36 | Lady_Aleena | And man docs need to be written on a non-technical level as if the person reading knows absolutely NOTHING. |
| 09:41.03 | ratrace | centrix: not necessarily |
| 09:42.38 | centrix | retrace: I want to find a boundary where I could say that I need to add CPUs. |
| 09:43.06 | centrix | I could also use sar to compute an average. Not simply a max. |
| 09:43.11 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: aplay -l | nc termbin.com 9999 |
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| 09:43.50 | Lady_Aleena | https://termbin.com/9dur |
| 09:43.59 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: yes there is a difference between alsa and pulse utils.. alsa is interfacing with the hardware.. pulse mixing isn't touching the hw necessarily.. |
| 09:44.12 | EmleyMoor | Are there any "avoid" points when it comes to a Mini PCIe to PCIe converter? |
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| 09:44.41 | ratrace | centrix: cpu% is bad metric for that. you need average load. if that number (which is number of queued processes/threads) is consistently larger than your cpu/core count, you need more of them |
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| 09:44.48 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: that looks like aplay -L output |
| 09:44.58 | ratrace | centrix: however, note that avgload would include processes in iowait so be sure check that too |
| 09:45.22 | centrix | ratrace, I suppose I could simply rely on sar -u s <start> -e <end>, using awk to compute an average |
| 09:45.24 | Lady_Aleena | nvs, that was aplay -l. |
| 09:45.56 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, try https://termbin.com/s06d |
| 09:46.12 | jim | hi... I'm looking how to find support for the rtl thing at pciid [10ec:b822] , judd says it doesn't know which kernel module |
| 09:46.14 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: are you using the soundblaster audigy? |
| 09:46.23 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, yes. |
| 09:46.31 | nvz | ,pciid 10ec:b822 |
| 09:46.32 | judd | [10ec:b822] is 'RTL8822BE 802.11a/b/g/n/ac WiFi adapter' from 'Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.' with no known kernel module in stretch or in sid. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=10ec:b822 |
| 09:46.32 | Lady_Aleena | I can't afford a new sound card. |
| 09:46.59 | centrix | ratrace, It looks like that sar's idlecolumn value minus sum(all of the sane columns) could do so |
| 09:47.00 | ratrace | centrix: cpu of 100% doesn't tell anything about how many processes are actually running |
| 09:47.01 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: well what I mean is you have onboard sound too.. and the audigy, like the onboard has different devices on top of it |
| 09:47.21 | ratrace | centrix: or to be precise 100% * ncpu |
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| 09:47.26 | Greyztar | hello,trying to vnc to my debian box which runs tigervnc server,after login prompt i only get a black screen,no errors in the log either, any tip on where i could start look? heres my xstartup file https://paste.debian.net/1099175/ |
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| 09:47.31 | centrix | ratrace, I actually do not carte about the number of processes |
| 09:47.43 | ratrace | centrix: you should if you're trying to figure out if you need more cores |
| 09:47.46 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, what does that mean? |
| 09:47.48 | jim | nvz, there'd be nothing other than judd's response |
| 09:47.49 | jim | ? |
| 09:47.55 | nvz | jim: yeah that one is gonna be sketchy I think I saw a driver out there for it but it'd need to be built seperately |
| 09:48.04 | nvz | jim: and who knows if it will even work |
| 09:48.24 | nvz | jim: is it a pcie card in a laptop? |
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| 09:48.50 | jim | I think so, not totally sure |
| 09:49.00 | humpled | mine goes down to zero but it's not completely quiet there, alsa only |
| 09:49.07 | jim | it could be on the mobo connected by pci |
| 09:49.12 | centrix | ratrace, why? No matter of number of process, 100% of CPU utilization will NOT provide anything extra and the processes either wait or work. |
| 09:49.16 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: well when I last had a fancy sblive it had the pci card without outputs on the back, front outputs via cables to the card, and then you could have the live drive which fit into a 5.25" bay and had a buncha extra crap.. |
| 09:49.21 | ratrace | centrix: "I want to find a boundary where I could say that I need to add CPUs." -- yeah, you're not gonna do that with cpu%. you need average load. |
| 09:49.37 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: onboard sound often have analog and digital say over hdmi/dp. they are multiple devices on a single card |
| 09:49.48 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: you have to be sure when using cli tools you are controlling the right card and device |
| 09:50.11 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, which is why using cli tools is always scary. |
| 09:50.19 | jim | nvz, I'm trying to find out now |
| 09:50.19 | nvz | jim: what is the computer? |
| 09:50.35 | ratrace | centrix: also, cpu% itself is some weird heuristic, not nearly what most people think when they think "cpu utilization" |
| 09:51.04 | nvz | jim: ah ok, I was just wondering cause someone else just asked about a wifi card and I showed the one I have which has non-free firmware but is a good low power wifi/bluetooth combo that works well in Debian and its under $10 on newegg |
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| 09:51.13 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, why don't you concentrate on helping jim. I can wait. |
| 09:51.25 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: I can also multitask :P |
| 09:51.25 | centrix | ratrace, yes, but I am not performing an exact math. Just an a\overall where some reserve may come on scene. Let's say I could sar -u -s <from> -e <to> } awk ... and compute the average |
| 09:51.34 | jim | I'm paused right now |
| 09:51.39 | ratrace | centrix: no that's just abusing statistics |
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| 09:51.52 | centrix | :) |
| 09:52.10 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: I am just saying that if you wanna get to the bottom of it, you gotta try either directly telling the card/device you want, hey, set Master to 5, and see what it does.. or just ignore it altogether and use higher level mixing |
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| 09:52.39 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: pulse mixes in software and can do so on a per-application basis even, doesnt matter what the hardware does |
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| 09:53.08 | Lady_Aleena | Pulse won't go below 20%. |
| 09:53.15 | nvz | o.O |
| 09:53.41 | centrix | ratrace, I have several "cat /dev/zero > /dev/null" processes running. Top shows CPU utilization perl process (also per cpu) while sar shows 0% idle. Could I rely on sar. For starters? |
| 09:54.03 | centrix | I got 2 cpus now. |
| 09:54.19 | ratrace | centrix: for what exactly. like I said 120% does NOT mean one full core plus 20% of another |
| 09:54.51 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: pactl set-sink-volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ 5 |
| 09:55.17 | Lady_Aleena | No sound |
| 09:55.20 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: that sets my volume to 5 which I can verify by my volume applet |
| 09:55.24 | ratrace | centrix: also don't forget that if you have hyperthreading there, cpu% is lying through its teeth |
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| 09:55.45 | centrix | ratrace, True |
| 09:55.54 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, the sound muted. |
| 09:56.15 | ratrace | centrix: so if you want real advice, rely on average load, not on cpu% |
| 09:56.55 | centrix | ratrace, Yes. That is just about what I thought. Thanks. |
| 09:57.20 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: hmm that may be a bad example.. heh.. does it on mine no matter what value I give it |
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| 09:57.49 | centrix | ratrace, https://pastebin.com/GUFnfLQG |
| 09:57.55 | centrix | sar -u 1 |
| 09:58.13 | centrix | 2 cpus |
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| 09:59.19 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: ah.. apparently its weird.. heh.. |
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| 09:59.33 | ratrace | centrix: assuming no HT and iowait of 0%, that would mean you're using cca 50% of your computational capacity |
| 09:59.49 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: I get 2% volume, barely auditable but working by doing pactl set-sink-volume 0 0x500 |
| 10:00.00 | nvz | I have to put my ear to the speaker to even hear it |
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| 10:00.33 | ratrace | centrix: actually... I'm not sure if sar counts u to 100% or up to ncpu*100% |
| 10:00.39 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: but pactl set-sink-volume 0 0x10000 sets it to 100% and the 0x500 sets it to 2% |
| 10:00.50 | Lady_Aleena | nvz, no matter what I use, I can't get below 22%. |
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| 10:01.09 | centrix | ratrace, several "cat /dev/zero > /dev/null". Nothing else in a run. Just sleeping. |
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| 10:01.32 | EmleyMoor | Is there a practical limit to the achievable WiFi speed on USB2? |
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| 10:02.02 | nvz | EmleyMoor: of course, there is always a limit to speeds on a shared bus |
| 10:02.32 | EmleyMoor | Yes, bus assuming it wasn't, is there a *practical* limit? |
| 10:02.34 | ratrace | centrix: but that's a very synthetic test. it's not even cpu bound but memory bandwidth bound |
| 10:02.54 | ratrace | centrix: if you want actual cpu bound tests, compute sha512 sums in a loop in a few subshells |
| 10:03.08 | EmleyMoor | (is, say, 600Mbps achievable but 1200 would require USB3?) |
| 10:03.25 | nvz | EmleyMoor: another caveat of USB is not only shared bandwidth and max speen, but its also often susceptable to lowering by devices on the bus in that if you have a 3.1 hub and you plug a 2.0 device in, the whole hub slows down to that speed |
| 10:03.59 | EmleyMoor | nvz: The machine in question lacks USB3 altogether |
| 10:04.01 | centrix | ratrace, I could also use stress |
| 10:04.16 | nvz | EmleyMoor: thats not a directly answerable question unless you mean max possible.. the actual speeds depend on a number of issues, the hub, whats on it, the cpu, etc. |
| 10:04.33 | EmleyMoor | Yes, I mean max possible |
| 10:05.18 | nvz | EmleyMoor: max speed of USB2 is like 60MBps |
| 10:05.39 | nvz | EmleyMoor: thats the entire bus speed.. |
| 10:05.58 | EmleyMoor | Like 60? So why are "like 600" adapters being advertised far and wide |
| 10:06.00 | EmleyMoor | ? |
| 10:06.04 | ratrace | centrix: also, what you seek is not unambiguously a single number. average cpu% or in fact even average load are meaningless without sampling periods and a stdev across them |
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| 10:06.22 | nvz | EmleyMoor: idk.. USB3 is slightly more than 10x that speed |
| 10:06.41 | nvz | EmleyMoor: to achieve 600MBps you'd have to be on USB3 |
| 10:06.54 | nvz | with nothing else on the bus, no iowait in the cpu, etc.. |
| 10:07.11 | EmleyMoor | I don't really want USB - I want PCI/Express... but am having trouble finding any "one part" solutions |
| 10:07.34 | ratrace | centrix: or for example, if you had 50% cpu% average for a certain period, it could mean that half of that period cpu% was 0, and half of it was 100%. or that for the entire time it was 50%. the former _might_ require more cpus, the latter definitely doesn't. |
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| 10:07.44 | nvz | EmleyMoor: for desktop or laptop? |
| 10:08.11 | EmleyMoor | Desktop |
| 10:08.24 | EmleyMoor | (hence not saying "Mini") |
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| 10:08.54 | ratrace | centrix: but if you had a number that said you had average load of 6 for that time period, on a 4 core system, that means (assuming no iowait) you need two more cores for that same load if you want no overhead on context switching. more or less. |
| 10:10.06 | nvz | EmleyMoor: ah, ok.. well thats different. I'm not a big fan of wifi on the desktop.. but if I were to do it I'd seek something with a antenna on a cord personally |
| 10:10.47 | nvz | EmleyMoor: when you speak of practical terms, practically 12MBps is often a limit for most things you're connecting TO with wifi |
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| 10:11.26 | nvz | EmleyMoor: and fwiw while 5Ghz is a faster band, its worse at penetration |
| 10:11.53 | nvz | though its also often less congested |
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| 10:12.03 | nvz | lots of pollution out there on the 2.4ghz band |
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| 10:23.04 | centrix | ratrace, Good I'll take that in a count. Generally said if the average is at 75% and there is now iowait the system provides a reserve. 85% with no iowait may indicate that there is a potential necessity to obtain more CPUs. 10% in iowait may indicate that there it is wise to obtain more CPUs. |
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| 10:24.25 | ratrace | centrix: again, no. average of 85% does not say if ONE cpu was tasked with one process that, over time, took 85% of it, OR that four cpus has four processes doing less work over that same time, but cumulatively coming up to 85% |
| 10:25.09 | centrix | ncpu must be taken in account |
| 10:25.11 | ratrace | centrix: which means your threshold shouod be 100% but, again, that doesn't mean whether one process was at 100% or ten processe would be at 1000% but 100% is really max so you don't have the info |
| 10:25.45 | ratrace | centrix: same thing, just the maximum then ain't 100% but 100*cpu. it still means the same. 200% does not mean 2 cpus were working. it could mean 4 cpus were working at 50% |
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| 10:27.09 | centrix | 100% of 1 cpu at the system of 4 cpus does not say that the REAL average load is 25%. |
| 10:27.16 | ratrace | centrix: so in some way you could say that if you had (100*ncpu)% average, then yeah you might need more cores, but how many? average load would tell you. |
| 10:27.33 | ratrace | centrix: yeah precisely. 100% is vague number |
| 10:28.07 | centrix | Thus, I need to clarify if eg. sar takes in account the number of cpus. |
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| 10:28.49 | ratrace | centrix: it would again mean nothing :) only 100% average over certain period would mean you probably needed more cpus, but not how many more. |
| 10:29.39 | ratrace | look... we're going in circles. you're hellbent on using cpu%, go ahead. I'm telling you it's wrong, you should look at several numbers. average load, iowat%, and then inspect most running processes for what kind of load they're contributing to that avg (because it includes iowait). that's all. gotta go back to work. |
| 10:30.17 | centrix | ratrace, "No how many more" Well, yes. We must be ready to add, say four. And have enough finance before asking for this "computing" adventure. |
| 10:30.59 | ratrace | centrix: but average load would tell you EXACTLY how many more |
| 10:31.08 | centrix | ratrace, Not in circles. I have moved. |
| 10:31.20 | ratrace | if you persistently have load 6 on a 4 core cpu, and inspecting shows that mostly being cpu and not iowat, you need...... 2 more :) |
| 10:32.00 | ratrace | and if you had 70 more, mostly being apache, it'd mean you need to change your mpm, NOT add more cpus ;) |
| 10:32.12 | centrix | Good. I am recording our conversation to consult for my task. |
| 10:32.39 | beavis | 8 |
| 10:32.40 | beavis | 7 |
| 10:32.43 | beavis | 8 |
| 10:32.44 | beavis | 9 |
| 10:32.46 | beavis | & |
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| 10:33.00 | centrix | ratrace, No. The server is dedicated for R processes. |
| 10:33.09 | ratrace | R language? |
| 10:33.12 | centrix | Yes |
| 10:33.14 | ratrace | mkay |
| 10:33.55 | ratrace | I don't know R, but I just gave an example where cpu% or even loadavg is meaningless when you consider what is producing that load. Badly configured <process that could be tweaked to perform the same, with less resource consumption> |
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| 10:34.51 | beavis | sry for the flood |
| 10:34.55 | beavis | unintentionalk |
| 10:35.12 | beavis | struggling with cygwin |
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| 10:35.59 | centrix | ratrace, Yes. We have a test machine. In case of a suspicious process (high RAM or CPU consumption) we consult with the author to confirm this behavior. |
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| 10:39.41 | hunter | hi here i want to know how to use dmitry |
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| 11:35.39 | mallxs | Some program kidnapped a file-type to startup the wrong program .. where do i find the bindings ? |
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| 11:36.02 | mallxs | hmmm i'm on Gnome |
| 11:37.09 | incredible_prout | lxqt is the best by far |
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| 11:40.32 | ameliadolly | Hallo |
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| 11:42.37 | mallxs | Hi |
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| 11:48.05 | EmleyMoor | nvz: Indeed, it's because 5GHz is clearer, not because it penetrates better (and knowing it doesn't), I want it |
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| 11:53.00 | ameliadolly | Join and see the video naked I am here for free http://kortlink.no/gYs |
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| 11:53.21 | karlpinc | !ops spam from ameliadolly |
| 11:53.21 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: karlpinc complains about a problem (see above) |
| 11:53.39 | ameliadolly | No spam |
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| 11:54.35 | nvz | EmleyMoor: tplink makes some good cheap pcie cards that will be supported, generally atheros chipsets are well supported |
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| 11:55.25 | abrotman | wonders how that is not spam? |
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| 12:00.23 | nvz | EmleyMoor: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SHPKKBR/ looks decent to me.. its not terribly expensive, its packed with modern features both wifi and bluetooth, has a wired antenna which I'd want for a desktop because it'll improve the signal not having it behind a big aluminum case blocking it.. and it says its an intel chipset supported by the linux kernel |
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| 12:02.52 | cooler | hey |
| 12:03.19 | cooler | can someone help me to install starcraft 2 on debian ? |
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| 12:04.06 | abrotman | isn't there a whole Wine HOWTO for that game? |
| 12:04.14 | fireba11 | haha |
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| 12:04.41 | cooler | i tried but it gives me errors |
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| 12:05.44 | nvz | EmleyMoor: only caution I have is that it seems rather bleeding edge, no verified support by someone I trust |
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| 12:17.17 | beavis | man i', slwwpy after all this clonazepan |
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| 12:24.44 | nvz | beavis: yeah, and you're in #debian :P |
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| 12:51.28 | f8e3 | how to start a process with fixed iP? |
| 12:51.40 | f8e3 | sorry PID, like specifiy on startup to watch it in bash script |
| 12:51.44 | greycat | You don't. |
| 12:52.11 | greycat | If you want to monitor and manage a service/daemon, you write a systemd unit file to run it. |
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| 12:52.55 | f8e3 | dang, im coming from there and its too tough to get thigns figured |
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| 12:53.16 | greycat | The alternatives are ENORMOUSLY more difficult than systemd unit files. |
| 12:53.25 | f8e3 | ok will do that later than, |
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| 12:54.14 | nvz | idk why you'd need a fixed pid to monitor a process via a script anyhow figuring out where it's at is trivial |
| 12:54.20 | nvz | pgrep for example |
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| 12:59.31 | DammitJim | I am trying to determine what is being used by Debian to set up my network when I am plugged in to an ethernet cable |
| 12:59.38 | DammitJim | it seems to update my /etc/resolv.conf |
| 12:59.52 | greycat | what does it WRITE in /etc/resolv.conf? |
| 12:59.52 | DammitJim | but then when I use my WiFi when I get home, the /etc/resolv.conf doesn't update |
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| 13:00.22 | greycat | Does it include comments that say "Hi, I'm NetworkManager, don't edit this, because I'll just brush aside your changes"? |
| 13:00.22 | jezebel | do you have resolvconf installed? networkmanager also potentially updates /etc/resolv.conf |
| 13:00.38 | greycat | !resolv.conf |
| 13:00.38 | dpkg | /etc/resolv.conf is a resolver configuration file that contains your nameserver IPs. It is written by your DHCP client. To use different nameservers than those provided by DHCP, ask me about <override dns>. See also <fixresolvconf>. |
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| 13:00.45 | greycat | ... |
| 13:00.49 | greycat | !override dns |
| 13:00.49 | dpkg | To have dhclient etc not touch /etc/resolv.conf, the best plan is to configure it not to touch that file. See https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf for more details. Note that by ignoring the DHCP-provided DNS servers, you may find that you are unable to use captive portals or surf the web on some network. Beware creating technical debt by doing things like chattr +i |
| 13:00.53 | jezebel | what's in /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 13:00.56 | greycat | See that wiki page for details. Many, many details. |
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| 13:06.27 | velix | Interesting. I've just setup Debian on /dev/sdb on VMware vSphere. It doesn't find Grub on /dev/sda and complains. I've not installed Grub to /dev/sda and it boots /dev/sdb... Seems like VMware is stupid. |
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| 13:14.57 | alemmar | .. |
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| 13:19.09 | velix | I hate grub. |
| 13:19.48 | ayekat | grub hates you, too |
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| 13:22.04 | cooler | my windows hd is not detected on grub. I hate grub |
| 13:23.11 | dvs | ,v os-prober |
| 13:23.12 | judd | Package: os-prober on amd64 -- jessie: 1.65+deb8u1; stretch: 1.76~deb9u1; bullseye: 1.77; buster: 1.77; sid: 1.77 |
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| 13:24.10 | cooler | oh he found it |
| 13:24.22 | cooler | dvs, /dev/sdc3:Ubuntu 18.04.3 LTS (18.04):Ubuntu:linux |
| 13:24.22 | cooler | /dev/sdd1@/EFI/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi:Windows Boot Manager:Windows:efi |
| 13:24.30 | cooler | what do i do now ? |
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| 13:25.24 | dvs | rerun update-grub? |
| 13:26.14 | cooler | great thanks dvs im going to test it |
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| 13:27.13 | vampirefrog | hi y'all, I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to use some sort of hardware key to access an encrypted partition |
| 13:27.37 | vampirefrog | I'm aiming to get a laptop with some sort of hardware inside it that would allow me to lock an encrypted partition to that laptop |
| 13:27.40 | velix | ayekat: Actually, I want to remove /dev/sda from grub, since /dev/sdb is my default :/ |
| 13:28.29 | vampirefrog | and my question is, can I do that with debian? what should I be looking for as far as hardware, I just don't want my data to be readable if someone steals my laptop |
| 13:29.14 | ayekat | velix: so grub was installed into the MBR of /dev/sda? or what exactly is the issue? |
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| 13:31.30 | velix | ayekat: I've set up Debian on VMware vSphere. Since the admin has set the SSD to /dev/sdb, I had to install it here. VMware didn't look for GRUB on /dev/sdb and complained, since it hasn't been on /dev/sda. So I had to install Debian on /dev/sda, too (since the installer doesn't allow to setup the bootloader without a base system). Since VMware finds GRUB on /dev/sda now (which also contains the information about /dev/sdb), my default is /sda now. ARGH ;) |
| 13:32.23 | vampirefrog | you can do grub-install /dev/sda from debian or chroot |
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| 13:33.21 | velix | vampirefrog: Yeah, but I want to have /sdb(1) to be the default. |
| 13:33.45 | ayekat | velix: you can have GRUB on sda boot the system that's on sdb |
| 13:33.46 | vampirefrog | default what |
| 13:34.00 | vampirefrog | yes, grub-install just installs the first sector bootloader |
| 13:34.34 | velix | okay, let me work on it again |
| 13:34.34 | vampirefrog | so if vmware tries to boot from sda, it finds the grub bootloader, and the bootloader looks at sdb for its grub config and should display the menu from that config |
| 13:34.49 | vampirefrog | you can try wiping sda and just grub-install /dev/sda |
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| 13:35.00 | vampirefrog | but you might also try to configure the vmware bios to just boot from sdb |
| 13:35.02 | ayekat | if you want vmware to boot from sdb directly (and completely ignore sda), that's a bit outside the scope of debian/grub |
| 13:35.06 | vampirefrog | or ask your sysadmin to switch them around |
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| 13:38.45 | velix | vampirefrog: Yeah, I'm trying this right now. The sysadmin is @ home. It's friday 15:38 here. |
| 13:38.46 | velix | ;) |
| 13:38.50 | velix | friday = free day |
| 13:38.58 | velix | don't say a word. |
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| 13:39.10 | vampirefrog | no, it's the day of venus |
| 13:39.19 | velix | Love is in the air. |
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| 13:51.01 | zmoo | hello debian channel |
| 13:51.11 | ishanjain28 | helllo |
| 13:51.17 | zmoo | is clangd required generally? |
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| 13:52.01 | zmoo | it was ether clangd or clang-tools |
| 13:53.14 | zmoo | and it wasnt included in the clang-tools ? |
| 13:54.44 | vampirefrog | zmoo, what are you trying to do? |
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| 14:02.12 | djohngo | Is it normal for a service to show up in systemctl after it has been purged? |
| 14:03.25 | greycat | what service, and what exactly does systemctl say about it? |
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| 14:03.56 | djohngo | I suppose I meant "continue to show up". |
| 14:04.39 | djohngo | I still have both icinga.service and icinga2.service after purging. |
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| 14:04.53 | greycat | If it's showing "this service used to run, it's disabled and gone, but here are the logs" then that seems sound. |
| 14:04.55 | djohngo | systemctl says they are both "loaded active exited" |
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| 14:05.58 | bolt_ | Some embedded boxes (custom built) I'm working on fail to reboot about 19/20 times after an upgrade to Buster. They get stuck after shutdown on "Synchronizing SCSI cache". I've tried using hdparm to disable the write cache (-W0), I've done all the usual acpi=off, acpi=force, reboot=bios,force,pci,whatever, and it still just stays there. What's up? Here's a screenshot: http://paste.c-net.org/NosedSomeone |
| 14:06.18 | aypea[3] | since upgrading to buster, my $HOME/.mailcap has stopped being taken into account. does anyone know how to fix this? |
| 14:06.20 | bolt_ | Rebooting worked just fine when running on stretch |
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| 14:08.00 | bolt_ | When they freeze up, the cursor stops blinking and even ctrl+alt+del doesn't work. In fact, ctrl+alt+del will cause the system to lock up if used shortly after grub as well. Under stretch, it'd reboot. Now it just hangs. |
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| 14:08.52 | bolt_ | I also tried downgrading to the stretch kernel, btw. And the buster-backports one. No difference. |
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| 14:14.34 | vsayikiran | Hi I have installed debian buster on 128gb kingston pendrive. I am unable to edit wifi interface settings using network connection GUI app. Does anyone has idea what needs to be done? |
| 14:15.59 | vampirefrog | bolt_, sounds like a driver issue, have you tried unplugging some devices on the boxes themselves? |
| 14:17.09 | bolt_ | vampirefrog: there's nothing connected except my keyboard and an hdmi monitor. everything is soldered on. |
| 14:17.19 | bolt_ | well, and the ssd |
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| 14:17.58 | vampirefrog | why is it remounting read only |
| 14:18.04 | bolt_ | Trying a clean Buster install on one of them now, to see if something went bad in the upgrade. |
| 14:18.14 | karlpinc | bolt_: Does it "systemctl poweroff" reliabily? How about halt? And then come back up after these? |
| 14:18.20 | bolt_ | vampirefrog: isn't that a normal part of the end of the shutdown procedure? |
| 14:18.32 | bolt_ | karlpinc: even halt --force --reboot will freeze them |
| 14:19.18 | zmoo | hello debian, again is there a specific debian build irc channel |
| 14:19.33 | zmoo | Im getting strange clang errors building now. |
| 14:19.46 | zmoo | issues with catch.hpp |
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| 14:19.57 | karlpinc | bolt_: You have jtag? |
| 14:20.51 | karlpinc | forgets what to do with jtag, but seems to recall something like that being useful in such situations |
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| 14:22.16 | karlpinc | vsayikiran: You could use /etc/network/interfaces maybe. "man interfaces" |
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| 14:22.42 | bolt_ | karlpinc: yes, if need be. I don't use it much tbh. I'll try the clean Buster install first, and if that helps I'll analyze the difference |
| 14:24.10 | bolt_ | Also considering just bugging the manufacturer with this, as a rather large order depends on this working. |
| 14:25.50 | zmoo | damn it its the switch -std=c++17 support I broke it when I installed boost |
| 14:26.12 | zmoo | it works for -std=c++11 though... |
| 14:26.34 | zmoo | I guess I should have checked that first |
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| 14:34.31 | Slashman | hey, is there some jq wizard here? |
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| 14:34.59 | greycat | there's a #jq channel, and a few people in #bash know it, but it's not our focus |
| 14:35.43 | Slashman | greycat: oh cool, I'll try in #jq then, thanks! |
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| 14:38.56 | DammitJim | thanks guys and sorry for bolting out after asking a question |
| 14:38.59 | DammitJim | I was called into a meeting |
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| 14:39.08 | DammitJim | let me pastebin the contents of what you requested |
| 14:40.57 | DammitJim | https://paste.debian.net/1099229/ |
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| 14:41.47 | DammitJim | this one has my ip addr output: https://paste.debian.net/1099230/ |
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| 14:46.01 | DammitJim | I don't have network manager installed... I have connman |
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| 15:01.19 | jpcooper | Hello. I am running Debian Stable on a Lenovo T460 laptop. Sometimes my screen is irrecoverably blank when I try to resume from suspend. I have looked this up on Google and have found many possible solutions, some suggesting setting intel_iommu=false in grub. I'd rather not apply random changes without fully understanding what they do. A lot of these suggestions are quite old. Has anyone here managed to solve this problem recently? |
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| 15:07.40 | at0m | jpcooper: last i experienced such issue, i Ctrl-Alt-F1'd then back to X Ctrl-Alt-F7 solved that |
| 15:07.53 | at0m | ot |
| 15:08.00 | at0m | err. other than that, no idea |
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| 15:14.55 | vampirefrog | I have the same problem as jpcooper |
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| 15:15.14 | vampirefrog | and I use at0m's solution |
| 15:15.21 | vampirefrog | which is not really a solution |
| 15:16.23 | dvs | Did you try pressing the Shift key? That's what does it for me. |
| 15:16.26 | velix | Is there a way to remove /usr/bin/parallel from being tracked by dpkg ? |
| 15:17.00 | nvz | velix: to what end? |
| 15:17.44 | velix | nvz: I want to install GNU parallel from the community builds, which don't rename moreutil's parallel to /usr/bin/parallel.moreutils, so I need to do it manually. |
| 15:17.58 | vsayikiran | Hi does anyone how to enable network connections GUI app. Although network manager is able to discover wifi networks, but I am unable to edit connection information |
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| 15:18.37 | nvz | velix: and you still need moreutils for some reason? |
| 15:18.55 | velix | nvz: I don't need parallel from moreutils, but moreutils (f.e. sponge). |
| 15:19.01 | velix | "sponge" is damn useful |
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| 15:20.28 | nvz | velix: well the two debian tools I know of and have used are equivs and alternatives.. equivs wont help if you still want moreutils |
| 15:21.03 | nvz | velix: however alternatives will work.. you just have to install your 3rd party package elsewhere like /opt/ or /usr/local/ and add it to alternatives |
| 15:21.04 | jmcnaught | velix: why not install it to /usr/local/bin? |
| 15:21.40 | velix | nvz & jmcnaught: I'm using the community based debian package... so I don't have control about the target |
| 15:21.44 | velix | over* |
| 15:21.54 | velix | or do I ? |
| 15:22.00 | nvz | nods |
| 15:23.01 | velix | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:23.06 | jmcnaught | velix: have you looked at "man dpkg-divert"? Ideally you shouldn't need to do this. |
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| 15:24.31 | nvz | velix: yes there is the --root thing and as jmcnaught suggests dpkg-divert but I concur that this is a last resort |
| 15:25.13 | velix | What's the pre-last resort? ;) |
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| 15:25.57 | nvz | where is the package at? |
| 15:26.10 | nvz | I'd rather test a solution than shoot in the dark |
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| 15:26.18 | velix | nvz: https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/tange/Debian_Testing/all/parallel_20190822_all.deb |
| 15:27.10 | velix | oh, I could simply unpack it and copy to /usr/local or use stow ;) |
| 15:27.34 | velix | stow might be a good solution |
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| 15:28.57 | hdt551 | Could someone briefly explain why after a fresh install (buster) you can't do an update. |
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| 15:29.10 | cluelessperson | hdt551 why, what's the error? |
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| 15:29.15 | dvs | hdt551, your /etc/apt/sources.list is not complete? |
| 15:29.15 | greycat | because... you installed without a network? |
| 15:29.28 | hdt551 | Without editing the source list. I get the repository 'cdrom:// ...' does not have a release file. |
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| 15:29.40 | dvs | !prize me |
| 15:29.40 | dpkg | gives dvs a My Little Pony. |
| 15:29.50 | greycat | me too! |
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| 15:29.54 | hdt551 | I believe this has been the case for a few versions. |
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| 15:29.55 | dvs | !prize greycat |
| 15:29.55 | dpkg | gives greycat a yogi pin. |
| 15:30.00 | cluelessperson | hdt551 ah, yeah, I feel they should fix that |
| 15:30.07 | cluelessperson | hdt551 it's not really broken though |
| 15:30.12 | greycat | your sources.list is this way because you installed without a network, yes? you just need to replace it with a correct list. |
| 15:30.15 | greycat | !buster sources.list |
| 15:30.15 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 15:30.19 | dvs | hdt551, it's because you are using the DVD-1 iso or something similar to do the install? |
| 15:30.39 | hdt551 | I used the DVD-1 iso yes. |
| 15:31.00 | dvs | hdt551, that's why. Use the netinstall iso instead and you won't get that problem. |
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| 15:31.50 | hdt551 | Well, I'm sure not using the DVD would "fix" the problem. |
| 15:32.09 | cluelessperson | hdt551 to "fix" it, you can alter the sources quite easily |
| 15:32.27 | dvs | hdt551, like described above ^^^ |
| 15:32.39 | cluelessperson | by editting the text files under `/etc/apt/sources.list` |
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| 15:37.40 | greycat | I believe the intent of putting a cdrom:// source in the file is that you will leave the DVD or CD in the drive whenever you run apt-get, and you're relying on it to save as much bandwidth as possible. |
| 15:37.40 | greycat | Because you're on dial-up, etc. |
| 15:37.40 | hdt551 | Yes, I know I can fix it, it seems like a rather long running problem, to have it error as soon as you try to update after an install... |
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| 15:37.41 | dvs | hdt551, the DVD-1 image assumes that you are going to use DVDs to update your system. |
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| 15:37.42 | hdt551 | It gives the same error if the DVD in the drive is left in. |
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| 15:37.42 | greycat | that sounds like a bug of some kind |
| 15:37.42 | velix | Hmm, shouldn't this work? `update-alternatives --set parallel /usr/local/bin/parallel` |
| 15:37.42 | greycat | I haven't done this in *decades* but I think it's supposed to prompt you to mount the disc and press enter, or something? |
| 15:37.46 | velix | ah, instalL! |
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| 15:37.47 | velix | update-alternatives doesn't seem to work with links from stow :D |
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| 15:37.47 | hdt551 | I saw complaints about the DVD-install failure from 2015 went unanswered so I suppose it is a minor issue. |
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| 15:37.57 | hdt551 | Not install failure, but update failure. |
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| 15:38.09 | velix | nvz: Seems like I got it working! |
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| 15:38.44 | nvz | velix: I'd like to have a more elegant solution for other things but for this specific situation, you have the package installed already through debian, and the only significant parts are in /usr/bin/ so you could just dpkg -x the package and copy the contents of its /usr/bin/ to /usr/local/bin manually and then just use alternatives |
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| 15:39.05 | jmcnaught | velix: if you install it to /usr/local/bin/parallel then why do you need to use update-alternatives? /usr/local/bin should be in your PATH before /usr/bin⦠|
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| 15:39.21 | nvz | velix: cause you shouldnt need any of the crap in share you already have the documentation |
| 15:39.26 | velix | nvz: Actually, that's what I've got right now. |
| 15:39.51 | velix | jmcnaught: since a tool might access /usr/bin/parallel |
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| 15:40.00 | velix | hardcoded. you'll never now. |
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| 15:41.09 | nvz | velix: however either this solution or diverting the moreutils and manually dropping in this one.. either is just as rube and has the same issues |
| 15:41.25 | nvz | velix: but if you don't care about that then its up to you whats more sane for you to maintain |
| 15:41.38 | jmcnaught | not having moreutils and parallel packages installed might also be an option? |
| 15:41.52 | velix | jmcnaught: I could rip stuff out of moreutils, of course. |
| 15:41.58 | nvz | I'd already asked about that, they want other things from moreutils |
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| 15:42.16 | nvz | but dpkg-divert I believe can just divert specific parts of the package |
| 15:42.16 | velix | That's my current solution up to now: https://bpaste.net/show/jCfT |
| 15:42.57 | greycat | every once in a while, someone has a question about GNU parallel which requires me to install it and test some crap with it, and every time, that incredibly pompous diatribe about how I need to "cite" them in my "scholarly work" or pay them 10k euros/dollars leads me to uninstall it as quickly as possible |
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| 15:43.26 | nvz | greycat: heh, THAT is why you uninstall it? |
| 15:43.54 | nvz | I glanced at it once and uninstalled it cause it seemed pointless and cumbersome |
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| 15:48.03 | james1138 | Hello from Indiana/USA. General question about Linux and mail clients. Besides Evolution, Claws Mail and Thunderbird - are there any other email clients that have calendar and RSS feed support?? |
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| 15:49.53 | velix | nvz: Fixed one: https://bpaste.net/show/5aAq |
| 15:50.42 | toruvinn | james1138, a bit funny perhaps, but good old opera with m2 had all this. and i loved it. apparently vivaldi is working on a mail client, so they may have it in the future. im not sure about operium (i.e. the new chrompera). |
| 15:52.37 | toruvinn | oh. yes. it's not open source ;-) |
| 15:52.40 | james1138 | Thanks for the tip toruvinn. I am using Vivaldi now. As for email - I am using Evolution with RSS plugin. The only issue I am having is that when I hit "send & receive" to update email folders and RSS it crashes. |
| 15:53.11 | jmcnaught | james1138: there's also kontact for KDE which has at least email and calendar, not sure about RSS (I use Evolution). |
| 15:53.18 | james1138 | However - if I update just mail folder - all is okay. Google search so far says it is a bug |
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| 15:53.38 | toruvinn | ehh, i have pretty not-the-best experiences with evolution, sadly. mainly that even if you enable downloading all the imap mail for "offline mode", unless you actually go offline it will always reload from the server. which can be slow if you live on the other end of the globe. |
| 15:54.09 | james1138 | I rather not have to install a separate RSS if the browser or email client will do the job. |
| 15:54.19 | velix | nvz: Have to catch my train. Will return in 2 hours |
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| 15:54.52 | nvz | hmm.. flat as a pancake no doubt.. |
| 15:55.10 | nvz | something tells me that train is gonna squish you like a bug if you try and catch it |
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| 15:59.07 | velix | :( |
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| 15:59.21 | velix | That's not nice |
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| 16:01.55 | mrquincy | I'm having some issues with Debian ignoring my interpreter request in the shebang line of scripts executed from a ZSH terminal. |
| 16:02.13 | mrquincy | #!/bin/bash is ignored, and my stuff runs in zsh anyway |
| 16:02.29 | greycat | you might have a typo in the shebang, or the script might have carriage returns |
| 16:02.58 | greycat | or you might be typing "source yourscript" or ". yourscript" |
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| 16:03.35 | greycat | wouldn't hurt to make sure the script has execute permissions, too. I have no idea how zsh behaves if you try to execute a script without +x perms. |
| 16:04.01 | ayekat | zsh: permission denied: ./foobar.sh |
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| 16:04.20 | ayekat | if you explicitly specify the interpreter, however, it will run |
| 16:04.27 | ayekat | but in that case the shebang is likely ignored |
| 16:04.36 | greycat | yes, it should be |
| 16:04.46 | mrquincy | Lord...it was a sheband typo. Sorry all. |
| 16:04.57 | greycat | we see those a lot in #bash |
| 16:05.01 | mrquincy | s/sheband/shebang/ |
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| 16:19.11 | jhutchins_wk | Isn't there supposed to be a space between the ! and the /? |
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| 16:22.11 | nvz | has never used a space |
| 16:22.35 | nvz | other than if using #!/usr/bin/env or such.. then there is a space after that |
| 16:22.42 | SerajewelKS | me either, i've actually never seen a shebang with a space after the ! |
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| 16:25.21 | jhutchins_wk | Interesting. I _think_ I've always seen something like #! /bin/bash rather than #!/bin/bash |
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| 16:29.21 | SerajewelKS | i've never seen that before, in fact until now i didn't know that even worked |
| 16:29.44 | Akuw | what software is there like NetXMS? free software |
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| 16:30.08 | SerajewelKS | Akuw: i don't understand the question |
| 16:30.31 | Akuw | is there any application like NetXMS, another option |
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| 16:30.52 | Akuw | with FS License |
| 16:30.55 | SerajewelKS | depends what parts of it you need |
| 16:31.04 | SerajewelKS | for the server monitoring part, there's options like zabbix for example |
| 16:31.13 | Akuw | monitoring |
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| 16:31.19 | Akuw | Zabbix |
| 16:31.23 | Akuw | anything else? |
| 16:31.40 | SerajewelKS | some people like nagios |
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| 16:32.02 | Akuw | ok |
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| 16:32.35 | Akuw | Zabbix is GNU/GPL nice |
| 16:33.54 | martian67 | exim remote root people, patch your shi |
| 16:33.57 | martian67 | t |
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| 16:35.00 | jhutchins_wk | Ok, every example I just looked at, including ones I've written, has no space. |
| 16:37.01 | SerajewelKS | can the exim remote root exploit even be triggered if exim isn't configured for TLS? |
| 16:37.08 | SerajewelKS | that would rule out every default installation |
| 16:37.08 | sleepingforest | anyone know of a solution to view a systems packages as a graph of dependencies? |
| 16:37.45 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: debtree |
| 16:38.01 | SerajewelKS | though IIRC that runs on a single package |
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| 16:39.25 | sleepingforest | ill look, my end goal is to see what all came from where and who needs what so i can rm packages without breaking shit. could be easier to do a fresh install tho |
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| 16:39.46 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: that's the purpose behind manual/auto package marks |
| 16:40.05 | sleepingforest | SerajewelKS: im unaware of those |
| 16:40.28 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: look through the list of manually-installed packages and mark whatever you don't need as auto. then you can run "apt-get autoremove" and any package marked auto that isn't depended on by something marked manual gets tossed. |
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| 16:40.45 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: "apt-mark showmanual" |
| 16:40.50 | sleepingforest | SerajewelKS: and how do i do that? im looking through dpkg -l now |
| 16:41.10 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: any package that you don't need in that list you can "apt-mark auto $pkg1 $pkg2 ..." |
| 16:41.20 | SerajewelKS | when you're done, run "apt-get autoremove" |
| 16:41.58 | sleepingforest | well, this doesnt seem safe since apt-mark showmanual shows things like systemd, which i didnt manually install. unless im misinterpreting whats manual here |
| 16:42.06 | nvz | sleepingforest: I just decrufted my system recently removed over 700 packages, freed up well over 2GB space.. did it all in synaptic |
| 16:42.47 | sleepingforest | hm yeah i guess synaptic does exist |
| 16:42.51 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: things the installer put on there are often also marked manual |
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| 16:43.12 | zumba_addict | i'm getting command not found on `inotifywait`. What package should I install? |
| 16:43.22 | sleepingforest | SerajewlKS: that seems backwards, like it should have a different mark, manual-dep or soemthing |
| 16:43.46 | greycat | ,file bin/inotifywait |
| 16:43.47 | nvz | sleepingforest: https://i.imgur.com/u5El9Ii.png |
| 16:43.50 | judd | Search for bin/inotifywait in buster/amd64: inotify-tools: usr/bin/inotifywait |
| 16:43.51 | sleepingforest | it would be nice to see all packages i told apt /dpkg to install and those packages have a mark relating them |
| 16:44.06 | zumba_addict | thanks |
| 16:44.13 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: manual and auto just mean whether the package is wanted by the system currently |
| 16:44.27 | SerajewelKS | "manual" means "something explicitly wanted this here" and "auto" means "this came in due to dependency resolution" |
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| 16:44.35 | sleepingforest | ah |
| 16:44.56 | SerajewelKS | so the packages you have installed will also be marked manual. any of their dependencies will probably be marked auto. |
| 16:45.00 | nvz | sleepingforest: I went through the status local/obsolete first, then through the manual (packages that were actually specified to be installed.. removed anything I didnt use in months from those, then went into autoremovable and got rid of those after marking from the other two categories |
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| 16:45.12 | SerajewelKS | "apt-get autoremove" just removes all auto packages that are no longer depended on by anything else |
| 16:45.46 | SerajewelKS | so "apt-mark showmanual" is the place to start. obviously don't mark anything auto that you know the system needs. ignore systemd for example. |
| 16:45.56 | zumba_addict | i wanted to use inotifywait to watch a file. I do see inotify |
| 16:45.57 | nvz | sleepingforest: found it easier to do it in synaptic cause I could more easily browse the list, going between status categories and see the info on the packages easily as I looked through them |
| 16:46.07 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: /var/log/dpkg.log* may also be helpful if you're trying to figure out what you've installed since install |
| 16:46.16 | greycat | zumba_addict: judd just told us, in response to my query |
| 16:46.20 | SerajewelKS | nvz: i use aptitude for the same thing |
| 16:46.25 | sleepingforest | nvz: thx i agree its easier |
| 16:46.37 | sleepingforest | SerajewelKS: thx for the cli way |
| 16:46.40 | zumba_addict | k |
| 16:47.00 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: np. running "aptitude" by itself gives you an in-between. it's a curses UI in the terminal. |
| 16:47.06 | nvz | sleepingforest: that setup I have there you gotta go to Settings > Preferences > Show package properties in main window to get that bottom pane with the extra info |
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| 16:47.13 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: so it's useful on servers where you can't run synaptic without pulling in all of X |
| 16:47.23 | sleepingforest | SerajewelKS: tight |
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| 16:47.48 | nvz | well you can always install a vnc server to avoid pulling in X, but there will still be deps on the app itself |
| 16:47.52 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: be sure to read the aptitude docs if you go that route, it's powerful but there is also a steep learning curve and it's easy to accidentally do the wrong thing when you're mashing keys |
| 16:48.05 | nvz | but a vnc server provides an X11 server, doesn't require an actual xorg or such |
| 16:48.07 | SerajewelKS | nvz: you'll still have to run X, just with VNC as the output |
| 16:48.19 | sleepingforest | yeah i like all options |
| 16:48.23 | SerajewelKS | ?? the "X VNC servers" do use xorg. |
| 16:48.36 | sleepingforest | i have a handful of servers that dont have x |
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| 16:49.06 | nvz | ,why vnc4server xserver-xorg |
| 16:49.14 | SerajewelKS | if you want to go the route without an X server you could forward your local display over ssh and run synaptic that way, but then you still need a ton of X client and gtk/gnome libraries and crap |
| 16:49.15 | judd | No dependency chain found between packages vnc4server and xserver-xorg in buster/amd64. |
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| 16:49.33 | nvz | vnc4server IS an xserver |
| 16:49.38 | nvz | it doesnt require one |
| 16:49.54 | nvz | I know, I've ran it on machines with no X before |
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| 16:50.12 | nvz | ,i tigervnc-standalone-server |
| 16:50.13 | judd | Package tigervnc-standalone-server (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: Standalone virtual network computing server. Version: 1.9.0+dfsg-3; Size: 996.2k; Installed: 2709k; Homepage: http://www.tigervnc.org |
| 16:50.32 | SerajewelKS | right, same. presumably it's sharing a bunch of the same code using libx? |
| 16:50.52 | SerajewelKS | _shrug_ |
| 16:51.01 | SerajewelKS | either way i'd probably just use X forwarding if i really wanted to run synaptic on a server |
| 16:51.45 | sleepingforest | i take synaptic doesnt show who depends on this package? |
| 16:52.11 | nvz | sleepingforest: it does when you mark it for removal.. it'll pop up a dialog showing everything else that will have to be marked |
| 16:52.16 | nvz | sleepingforest: you can mark or cancel |
| 16:52.22 | SerajewelKS | aptitude shows you that on the package summary |
| 16:52.40 | sleepingforest | ah |
| 16:53.04 | sleepingforest | lol this is messy, which is why i usually do a clean install |
| 16:53.09 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: https://imgur.com/HyaBein |
| 16:53.13 | nvz | sleepingforest: nothing actually happens in an interactive package manager like aptitude or synaptic until you hit apply |
| 16:53.35 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: note you can see depends/recommends/suggests |
| 16:53.49 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: there is an additional section near the bottom "packages which depend on ___" |
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| 16:54.34 | SerajewelKS | sleepingforest: if you want in aptitude, you can also filter the view to just manual-marked packages |
| 16:56.00 | SerajewelKS | i'd give yourself a good hour to go over the aptitude docs and make sure you understand what you can do and how to do it, it's worth learning |
| 16:56.12 | sleepingforest | yeah its worth filling in gaps |
| 16:56.16 | SerajewelKS | the search feature alone is very powerful |
| 16:56.25 | sleepingforest | i never sat down and read it in its entirety |
| 16:57.07 | SerajewelKS | after a release upgrade i always open aptitude and go over the "obsolete" section to try to get rid of stuff that was removed in the new release or figure out what i want to do about it |
| 16:57.37 | SerajewelKS | it's how i learned that virtualbox was not in buster and that prompted me to start messing about with qemu-kvm (did i do good nvz?) |
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| 17:02.16 | sleepingforest | https://tech-foo.blogspot.com/2013/01/visualising-ubuntu-package-repository.html |
| 17:02.27 | sleepingforest | this reminded me of that |
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| 17:03.33 | greycat | can we visualize it as "an open-air bazaar full of boxes that have the Debian logo with a crude black X drawn over it in magic marker, and Ubuntu scrawled next to that"? |
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| 17:07.03 | alpha-carinae | Hi |
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| 17:09.02 | alpha-carinae | I'm having this version resolution issue: task-english depends on tasksel (=3.53) but 3.55 is to be installed |
| 17:09.30 | alpha-carinae | How do I fix this? |
| 17:09.32 | greycat | ,v tasksel |
| 17:09.33 | judd | Package: tasksel on amd64 -- jessie: 3.31+deb8u1; stretch: 3.39; bullseye: 3.53; buster: 3.53; sid: 3.54 |
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| 17:09.59 | greycat | where did you get something that asks for taskset 3.55? |
| 17:10.06 | greycat | tasksel* |
| 17:10.13 | alpha-carinae | the current daily sid isi |
| 17:10.15 | alpha-carinae | ISO |
| 17:10.21 | greycat | !debian-next |
| 17:10.21 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 17:10.23 | greycat | !bts |
| 17:10.32 | dpkg | Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, http://bugs.debian.org/ or to go directly to the bug page for a particular package/bug, try http://bugs.debian.org/packagename or http://bugs.debian.org/bugnumber . aptitude install reportbug, and check out <querybts> too. Users of unstable and testing are required to check the BTS. See also <apt-listbugs>, <reportbug>. http://wiki.debian.org/HowtoUseBTS |
| 17:10.46 | greycat | You're using sid to test Debian and report bugs? Great, thanks, now report it. |
| 17:10.50 | alpha-carinae | Ah so that's the channel for unstable |
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| 17:11.15 | alpha-carinae | Aight thanks greycat :) |
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| 17:25.26 | DammitJim | back... |
| 17:25.46 | DammitJim | so, this is my config: https://paste.debian.net/1099230/ |
| 17:26.00 | DammitJim | still trying to figure out what manages my ethernet connection |
| 17:26.07 | DammitJim | I think connman is taking care of the wireless |
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| 17:27.05 | greycat | if your ethernet interface is named enx0050b6b941f3 it's managed by /e/n/i as you showed in your config file |
| 17:27.21 | greycat | continues reading |
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| 17:27.39 | greycat | you have at least two ethernet interfaces, it appears |
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| 17:28.11 | greycat | enp0s31f6 has NO-CARRIER which I believe means "no cable plugged in" |
| 17:28.13 | DammitJim | yes, enx0050b6b941f3 is in my /etc/network/interfaces |
| 17:28.34 | DammitJim | and that seems to be the interface that is getting an IP when I am connected |
| 17:28.34 | greycat | enx0050b6b941f3 is configured to use DHCP |
| 17:29.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1570] by debhelper |
| 17:29.01 | DammitJim | ah OK... I might just need to remove that interface from network/interfaces so that connman can manage it? |
| 17:29.09 | greycat | if that's what you want, yes |
| 17:29.12 | DammitJim | hhmmmm... but not sure about DHCP.. I guess that's a question for connman, right? |
| 17:29.25 | greycat | it's being managed by DHCP right now, because it's configured to be so |
| 17:29.59 | DammitJim | ok, I'm going to remove it and see what happens... I wonder how connman is dealing with DNS since it doesn't seem to be updating it |
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| 17:41.23 | martigan | Hey If I've installed a package and it wont launch, ie: signal-desktop how would I trouble shoot it? It was working before reboot, I have uninstalled it and reinstalled it and still can't get it to launch. |
| 17:42.11 | SerajewelKS | martigan: run it from a terminal and see what the output says |
| 17:42.13 | jelly | ,v signal-desktop |
| 17:42.15 | judd | No package named 'signal-desktop' was found in amd64. |
| 17:42.40 | jelly | martigan: where does that package come from? What happens if you run the command from a terminal? |
| 17:42.50 | SerajewelKS | jelly: it's distributed as a .deb by the developer |
| 17:43.14 | SerajewelKS | it's an electron app. i use it as well. |
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| 17:45.15 | SerajewelKS | oh neat, i didn't realize that d-i actually activates swap volumes during install |
| 17:45.41 | martigan | https://paste.debian.net/1099271/ |
| 17:46.14 | martigan | Ok so if I chmod 4755 /opt/Signal/chrome-sandbox should fix it? |
| 17:46.15 | SerajewelKS | martigan: looks like an issue with the package. consider reporting it upstream. |
| 17:46.37 | SerajewelKS | martigan: possibly. but the package should have installed the binary that way for you. verify the existing permissions on that file first. |
| 17:47.06 | SerajewelKS | i don't know why signal needs to run anything as root though |
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| 17:48.10 | SerajewelKS | martigan: i have this same package and i don't even have that file. something is fucky. |
| 17:49.30 | SerajewelKS | heh, d-i freaks out in low memory mode after locales gets installed and the console font changes. suddenly the line drawing characters don't work correctly and it spews garbage everywhere. |
| 17:49.49 | SerajewelKS | ^L cleans it up a bit but i have to keep hitting it every now and then |
| 17:49.54 | martigan | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 5099032 Sep 5 12:10 /opt/Signal/chrome-sandbox |
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| 17:50.03 | jmcnaught | I had installed Signal via flatpak, but I don't use it very often so it needed an update which I did. Now I also get the SUID sandbox error. Seems like a bug in more than just their .deb package. |
| 17:50.04 | martigan | I think it already is set correctly, |
| 17:50.18 | martigan | Or atleast it is set as 4755 |
| 17:50.23 | SerajewelKS | martigan: no, 4755 includes the setuid bit which isn't set currently |
| 17:50.30 | SerajewelKS | martigan: 4755 is -rwsr-xr-x |
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| 17:50.51 | SerajewelKS | i must have an older version of this package. but setuid for a desktop messaging application makes me super nervous. |
| 17:51.07 | jmcnaught | I just uninstalled it. |
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| 17:51.26 | martigan | ah, I read it wrong in the document I was reading, your right. |
| 17:51.29 | SerajewelKS | the only justification i can think of for running any of this as root is to keep other processes owned by the same user from snooping on its memory |
| 17:51.35 | jelly | martigan: yes, that chmod ought to fix this particular error. I've had the same issue with skypeforlinux, also an Electron-based vendor app. |
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| 17:52.14 | SerajewelKS | i would be wary of proceeding further without an explanation from the signal/electron devs on why this needs root at all |
| 17:52.25 | martigan | Knowing if this is a good idea to set it like this is over my head. |
| 17:52.36 | SerajewelKS | OTOH if your user has passwordless sudo on the box then it doesn't really matter since anything on the system can get root at any time already |
| 17:52.44 | jelly | the next version of skypeforlinux just set it on its own |
| 17:52.47 | SerajewelKS | anything under your user, i mean |
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| 17:53.33 | SerajewelKS | https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/master/docs/linux_suid_sandbox.md |
| 17:53.35 | hop | martigan: you trust that piece of close source who-knows-what with your most private conversations. might as well trust it with your whole computer⦠|
| 17:53.45 | SerajewelKS | hop: signal is open source |
| 17:54.01 | jelly | SerajewelKS: getting root is really a minor issue when all the really important files are owned by user and in their home |
| 17:54.21 | SerajewelKS | jelly: right. root allows some other nasty things like keystroke/network monitoring, but yeah. |
| 17:54.40 | martigan | I don't know what passwordless sudo is, when I installed I didn't make a root password and was automatically added to the sudoers file. I don't have a root password I don't think. |
| 17:54.56 | jelly | SerajewelKS: you can sniff keyobard and mouse as user, if you're running X |
| 17:55.01 | SerajewelKS | it looks like this "suid sandbox" was "almost completely removed" in 2016. i have no idea why signal would suddenly _start_ using it within the last few months. |
| 17:55.02 | martigan | hop, valid point. |
| 17:55.34 | SerajewelKS | martigan: as i said, signal is open source. i guess the rest of the point about trusting it with your conversations makes sense, but not the closed-source remark. |
| 17:55.38 | jelly | I suspect a change of heart in upstream chromium. |
| 17:56.15 | SerajewelKS | the setuid sandbox is used for "rendering" |
| 17:56.17 | jelly | knowing signal people, they probably also make the build reproducible |
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| 17:56.19 | SerajewelKS | the fuck, why do you need root to render a UI |
| 17:56.30 | martigan | Ya, I was refering to already trusting it with all my conversations. |
| 17:56.56 | jelly | SerajewelKS: you need root for seccomp, to _limit_ the things that can be done inside the sandbox (like file access) |
| 17:57.04 | SerajewelKS | it's also used to chroot apparently |
| 17:57.24 | jelly | possibly. Did not look at code. |
| 17:57.24 | SerajewelKS | jelly: seems like there should be a better way to impose restrictions than that... "you need power to remove power" |
| 17:57.28 | lord_chris | passwordless sudo is when the command sudo does not require a password. you can change this using "visudo" |
| 17:57.40 | SerajewelKS | jelly: i'm reading the documentation on chromium sandboxing |
| 17:58.17 | velix | nvz: I survived it. |
| 17:58.28 | SerajewelKS | martigan: what is the output of "uname -a"? |
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| 17:58.39 | SerajewelKS | from what i'm reading, the setuid sandbox is only required on old kernels |
| 17:58.55 | SerajewelKS | as in prior to 3.8 |
| 17:59.08 | jelly | that probably means "old kernels and new kernels with FOO disabled" |
| 17:59.31 | martigan | setting it to 4755 fixed it. SerajewelKS, 4.19.0-5-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.37-5+deb10u2 (2019-08-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 17:59.41 | SerajewelKS | shrugs |
| 17:59.54 | jelly | (for whatever value of FOO) |
| 18:00.21 | SerajewelKS | jelly: the newer sandbox requires "user namespaces" support in the kernel |
| 18:00.22 | lord_chris | output of "uname -a" is all system information |
| 18:00.25 | hop | *closed-to-you, dammit |
| 18:00.39 | hop | lovely lag |
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| 18:09.20 | martigan | Thank you all! Is this something that should be reported? And any advice on the way to do that? Ive never reported bugs in anything before. |
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| 18:11.24 | lord_chris | martigan: Bugs in debian is reported at https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting |
| 18:11.28 | jelly | SerajewelKS: userns are disabled by default in Debian's kernel, because it's a really rather buggy feature that provides less security than implied |
| 18:12.31 | SerajewelKS | jelly: hmm interesting. i wonder why my system doesn't have that setuid binary then. |
| 18:12.56 | SerajewelKS | martigan: you'd need to report it to signal as the package isn't provided by debian. i don't know how signal handles bug reports. |
| 18:13.15 | SerajewelKS | lord_chris: this isn't a bug in debian :) |
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| 18:14.12 | jelly | SerajewelKS: it's an interaction between electron apps and debian specifically, who you're going to blame is really a matter of opinion |
| 18:14.33 | SerajewelKS | jelly: i mean that their package installs this binary but doesn't make it setuid |
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| 18:15.00 | jelly | it probably checks kernel version but not actual feature being enabled |
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| 18:15.10 | jelly | or doesn't do even that |
| 18:15.35 | jelly | who knows |
| 18:16.31 | jelly | call it a bug in userns detection in chromium or electron probably |
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| 18:18.21 | jelly | FWIW, skypeforlinux has an explicit chmod +4755 in postinst |
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| 18:20.06 | jelly | not u+s, not 4755, not dpkg-statoverride, +4755 |
| 18:20.27 | greycat | what the hell does that do |
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| 18:21.21 | greycat | hmm, man page says that basically does an "OR" with the current bits, so if the file started out 777 then it would become 4777 |
| 18:21.58 | greycat | So once again, some idiot wrote a shell script that is not only broken, but creates security holes. |
| 18:23.22 | hop | could be worse, could be raining |
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| 18:29.31 | jelly | assuming they create packages in a sane way, the executable will be 0755 inside so it's not horribly bad |
| 18:30.07 | greycat | ... I guess. |
| 18:30.22 | greycat | It still betrays a complete lack of understanding. |
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| 18:34.35 | Akuw | greycat: in the places where time zone changes is something admin have to update / install ? |
| 18:35.00 | greycat | dpkg-reconfigure tzdata |
| 18:35.34 | greycat | if you're talking about regular daylight saving time changes, all you need to do is ensure that your system timezone is set to the correct one, and it should be handled |
| 18:35.59 | greycat | if you mean "I'm moving to a different state/country, and I want to change my timezone", then see above |
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| 18:37.22 | Akuw | actually i am in chile, so this weekend the time changes |
| 18:37.49 | Akuw | winter to Summer |
| 18:37.55 | Akuw | time changes |
| 18:38.01 | hop | greycat: you're betraying a complete lack of understading regarding timezones ;) |
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| 18:38.06 | greycat | you can check that everything will work by doing something like date -d '+3 days' |
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| 18:47.03 | jhutchins_wk1 | Akuw: There is a table where the kernel can look up what the time zone is and when it changes to daylight time if it does. |
| 18:47.18 | greycat | surely you mean libc |
| 18:47.32 | hop | ._. |
| 18:47.40 | greycat | the kernel does not care |
| 18:48.51 | jhutchins_wk1 | greycat: Probably. |
| 18:49.00 | greycat | That "table" is the set of time zone definitions that are provided in the tzdata file. And reconfiguring that with dpkg-reconfigure tzdata lets you tell libc, or anyone else who cares to look, which one you intend to use. |
| 18:49.11 | greycat | ... in the tzdata pacakge. |
| 18:49.18 | greycat | pretend I can type |
| 18:49.19 | jhutchins_wk1 | greycat: Thank you for the correction. |
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| 18:49.35 | hop | why is this so hard to understad? |
| 18:49.54 | greycat | what part is confusing you, hop? |
| 18:51.08 | hop | i'm not confused |
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| 18:52.57 | Akuw | Santiago Time Zone is (GMT-4) |
| 18:53.11 | hop | Akuw: depending on the season |
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| 18:53.21 | vampirefrog | man I don't even know what I was doing 4 hours ago |
| 18:53.25 | Akuw | last time cellulars go crazy |
| 18:53.26 | greycat | Akuw: date; date -d "+3 days" |
| 18:53.28 | hop | Akuw: you configure your location, let the lookup tables handle your timezone |
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| 18:53.58 | Akuw | somebody told that they have to update something, but i dont know why |
| 18:54.01 | hop | Akuw: what's in your /etc/timezone and which file does /etc/localtime link to? |
| 18:54.08 | Akuw | all computers using NTP |
| 18:54.20 | hop | Akuw: ntp operates on utc |
| 18:55.03 | Akuw | so what admin have to do when time changes to Summer |
| 18:55.05 | Akuw | ? |
| 18:55.16 | hop | 20:54 < hop> Akuw: what's in your /etc/timezone and which file does /etc/localtime link to? |
| 18:55.19 | Akuw | this saturday time will take efect |
| 18:55.32 | ratrace | Akuw: it'll change automatically |
| 18:55.33 | greycat | 14:53 greycat> Akuw: date; date -d "+3 days" |
| 18:55.42 | hop | i do hope time took effect some 14 billion years ago, even in chile |
| 18:55.45 | Akuw | America/Santiago |
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| 18:56.12 | Akuw | vie sep 6 14:56:03 -04 2019 |
| 18:56.16 | greycat | wooledg:~$ (export TZ=America/Santiago; date; date -d "+3 days") |
| 18:56.17 | greycat | Fri 06 Sep 2019 02:56:13 PM -04 |
| 18:56.17 | greycat | Mon 09 Sep 2019 03:56:13 PM -03 |
| 18:56.19 | Akuw | lun sep 9 15:56:03 -03 2019 |
| 18:56.25 | ratrace | you're good then. if you had timezone name instead of location, you'd probably need to switch |
| 18:56.30 | greycat | Akuw: Looks OK to me. |
| 18:56.54 | ratrace | but those were deprecated few years ago for that very reason |
| 18:57.00 | Akuw | admin was telling they need to update something |
| 18:57.09 | greycat | THEY may have to. YOU do not. |
| 18:57.09 | Akuw | i dont know what? |
| 18:57.13 | hop | Akuw: yeah, well, ask them what that something was |
| 18:57.22 | lord_chris | htop: Gives UTC and adds/subtracts hours based on timezone |
| 18:57.45 | lord_chris | hop: Gives UTC and adds/subtracts hours based on timezone |
| 18:58.06 | hop | lord_chris: come again? |
| 18:58.55 | Akuw | this computer has a correct time |
| 18:59.22 | greycat | Akuw: the date commands that you ran indicate that the local time will change for you as expected. |
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| 19:00.08 | jhutchins_wk | I think MS DOS pre-6 might have requred a manual timezone update for DST. |
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| 19:01.06 | lord_chris | hop: If NTP gives you 13:45 UTC and the timezone is UTC +1, you get 14:45. |
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| 19:01.43 | greycat | looks at his own date output, looks at the stuff he put in ~/.profile, looks at the LACK of said stuff in his environment in this terminal window, looks at the PRESENCE of said stuff in tty2 after a console login... |
| 19:02.00 | greycat | ... is startx stripping parts of my environment? |
| 19:03.51 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: Or maybe xterm isn't reading .profile? |
| 19:04.07 | lord_chris | graycat: Are all of the env variables defined |
| 19:04.13 | lord_chris | ? |
| 19:04.28 | greycat | I did not EXPECT xterm to read it. I expected it to be inherited through the wm, through startx, from the login shell. That's why I am wondering whether startx stripped it out. |
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| 19:05.49 | greycat | According to ps eww, the LOCPATH variable that I added in .profile is not present in the login shell (expected), IS present in startx, IS present in xinit, and is NOT present in fvwm. |
| 19:06.05 | lord_chris | graycat: I know sudo by default strips env variables never heard of startx doing it |
| 19:06.30 | hop | lord_chris: no d'uh. why are you telling me? |
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| 19:10.22 | tuv | how do i use debian-packaged rust libraries (librust-*)? I keep getting `unresolved import` errors |
| 19:11.54 | lord_chris | graycat: Are the env variables missing if you don't start fvwm and use the default twm? |
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| 19:12.29 | tuv | example: apt install librust-rand-dev, then compiling a rust program that has `use rand` results in `unresolved import rand` |
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| 19:14.12 | greycat | lord_chris: if I do "startx xterm -- :1" from tty2, resulting in an X session which is only an xterm and no window manager, the LOCPATH variable *is* retained in that xterm. Interesting... not sure what's going on yet. |
| 19:15.57 | jelly | judd: ping |
| 19:15.58 | judd | pong |
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| 19:17.31 | greycat | if I compare the environments of xinit (1196) and fvwm (1205, direct child of 1196), the only variables removed are LOCPATH and _ |
| 19:17.52 | greycat | several others were added (DBUG_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS, DISPLAY, GPG_AGENT_INFO, etc.) |
| 19:17.58 | greycat | DBUS* |
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| 19:20.51 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: It would make sense that you wouldn't need LOCPATH because you already have your locale from the session that launched xinit. |
| 19:21.16 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: Why they would go to the trouble of removing it is baffling. |
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| 19:25.07 | Psil0Cybin | hey guys silly question what is the offical guidfe to virify the SHA256SUM and SHA256SUM.sign of a Debian ISO |
| 19:25.14 | Psil0Cybin | The website does not really list a step by step guide |
| 19:25.19 | sourcream | Is there a way to see network statistic in debian retrospectively. I think there was some kind of ddos attack |
| 19:25.19 | Psil0Cybin | I was wonmdering if someone could please provide this? |
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| 19:30.13 | Greyztar | Psil0Cybin: for the sum atleast can do sha256sum myisofile and compare sum with that on the download page |
| 19:30.49 | Psil0Cybin | yes but this guide odes not really explain how to check the .SIGN file |
| 19:30.50 | Psil0Cybin | https://www.debian.org/CD/verify |
| 19:30.50 | Psil0Cybin | sorry |
| 19:31.03 | Psil0Cybin | i know i spelled it wrong, but it odes not give a detailed explanation of how to run the commands and verify. |
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| 19:32.01 | SerajewelKS | Psil0Cybin: gpg --verify |
| 19:32.22 | Psil0Cybin | so i download the .sign file, the .iso and just run the gpg verify |
| 19:32.24 | Psil0Cybin | and thats it? |
| 19:32.27 | Psil0Cybin | i am be assured? |
| 19:32.32 | SerajewelKS | pass it the .sign filename, yes |
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| 19:32.39 | SerajewelKS | you need the relevant gpg key imported as well |
| 19:32.43 | Psil0Cybin | okay thanks. |
| 19:32.43 | hop | Psil0Cybin: the signature only applies to the checksum, if that wasn't clear |
| 19:33.02 | Psil0Cybin | so i import the gpg key, i run the gpg key vs the sign file, and the ISO |
| 19:33.05 | Psil0Cybin | and thats it its verified? |
| 19:33.11 | SerajewelKS | not the iso |
| 19:33.36 | hop | Psil0Cybin: you'll also have to verify the keyring |
| 19:33.38 | SerajewelKS | just the .sign file. then you verify the checksum of the iso matches the sums file. the signature verifies the integrity of the sums file. |
| 19:34.40 | Psil0Cybin | does Debian have an offical guide for this? |
| 19:34.49 | Psil0Cybin | So I do not forget exactly what you guys are saying? |
| 19:35.33 | hop | Psil0Cybin: that's pretty much what the page says that you linked to |
| 19:35.57 | hop | really, the first sentence says it |
| 19:35.59 | hop | "Official releases of Debian CDs come with signed checksum files; " |
| 19:36.12 | Psil0Cybin | okay |
| 19:36.18 | greycat | The SHA-256 value is in a file on the web site. You can run the sha256sum command against your .iso image file, get the SHA-256 value, and compare against the one on the web. The GPG stuff is an additional layer AFTER that, which is to try to reassure you that the value on the web site isn't modified. |
| 19:36.20 | Psil0Cybin | i just wanted i guess the commands listed |
| 19:36.24 | Psil0Cybin | but yea ill figure it out |
| 19:36.34 | SerajewelKS | or you can use sha256sum -c so you're not comparing hashes by hand |
| 19:38.27 | Psil0Cybin | okay and last question on the edbian page (debian) sorry |
| 19:38.29 | Psil0Cybin | i see debian-10.0.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso |
| 19:38.37 | Psil0Cybin | is it missing debian-10.0.0-amd64-xfce-CD-2.iso ? |
| 19:38.47 | Psil0Cybin | or is that the only ISO I would need if I just want a xfce4 install offline? |
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| 19:39.17 | Psil0Cybin | the CD-1.iso just confused me the naming convension |
| 19:39.44 | greycat | OK, here's another data point: urxvt (my normal preferred terminal) is setgid utmp, and when I run urxvt, LOCPATH gets stripped, presumably by ld.so or whatever strips LD_LIBRARY_PATH, despite this not being documented in the man page. xterm is NOT setgid, and running an xterm doesn't strip it. However, this still doesn't explain why my WM is missing the var. |
| 19:40.33 | ratrace | greycat: which var which wm? |
| 19:40.35 | greycat | wooledg:~$ strings /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 | grep LOCPATH |
| 19:40.35 | greycat | LOCPATH |
| 19:40.58 | greycat | ratrace: the LOCPATH variable is being stripped out of my X session and I'm still trying to pinpoint *who* is doing it |
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| 19:41.23 | ratrace | greycat: which wm and dm? |
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| 19:41.39 | greycat | No desktop environment. fvwm, launched by typing startx. |
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| 19:42.07 | ratrace | greycat: tried adding it to ~/.Xsessionrc? |
| 19:42.12 | brutser | grub is complaining about not finding volume group vg_root, but i did create that, the menu entry in grub i have is: set root=(lvm/vg_root-root) and then linux /boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-5-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/vg_root-root rw cryptdevice=/dev/sda:vg_root quiet |
| 19:42.17 | brutser | when i do ls from the grub rescue, i see: (lvm/vg_root-root) (lvm/vg_root-swap) |
| 19:42.38 | brutser | maybe something wrong in the grub.cfg in that line or what? |
| 19:43.28 | ratrace | greycat: lowercase x, my typo. There I have to define PATH for LightDM (for my ligthdm+i3wm setup) |
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| 19:44.33 | greycat | ratrace: this just keeps getting WEIRDER. Now I ran "startx fvwm -- :1" from tty2, launched an xterm, and that xterm has the LOCPATH variable. And yet, an xterm launched from fvwm in my CURRENT (tty1) X session is missing that variable. |
| 19:44.35 | Psil0Cybin | guys soryr last question i see (i see debian-10.0.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso on the download page ) do i need to somehow find i see debian-10.0.0-amd64-xfce-CD-2.iso ? |
| 19:44.46 | Psil0Cybin | or is that the only .iso file that i would need for a xfce4 install? |
| 19:44.47 | frogwine | Hello all, i installed recently Debian 10 with KDE. Probably the hibernation enabled by default, i tried to instructions on Debian Wiki and also i edited the file resume.conf as RESUME=none under /etc/initramfs-tools, but it keeps hibernating anyway. Could you help me? |
| 19:44.51 | greycat | ratrace: ... something in the Debian X session, maybe? |
| 19:44.51 | Psil0Cybin | sorry just confyused withhow they name the ISO files |
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| 19:45.19 | ratrace | greycat: that's why I suggested you try defining it in ~/.xsessionrc |
| 19:45.31 | frogwine | I run update-initramfs and update-grub by the way. |
| 19:47.02 | Psil0Cybin | mv, i think i answered my own question "nitially, you will only need to download and use the first image of a set (labelled as debian-something-1 to be able to start the Debian installer and set up Debian on your computer. If there are more images available here (labelled debian-something-2, debian-something-3, etc.), they contain the extra packages that can be installed on a Debian system (as mentioned previously). |
| 19:47.02 | Psil0Cybin | They will not be bootable and are entirely optiona" |
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| 19:51.57 | SerajewelKS | Psil0Cybin: if you will have network connectivity during the install you can also use the netinstall image |
| 19:52.20 | Psil0Cybin | SerajewelKS, that true I just wanted to fully understand berfore I burned the wrong ISO files. |
| 19:52.32 | DammitJim | thanks guys! |
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| 19:52.37 | DammitJim | mystery solved with my DNS problem |
| 19:52.48 | DammitJim | removed the interface from /etc/network/interfaces |
| 19:52.58 | DammitJim | then set nameserver 127.0.0.1 in /etc/resolv.conf |
| 19:53.03 | DammitJim | connman is now taking care of things! |
| 19:53.51 | GenTooMan | Greets what is the most straight forward way to backup and restore my X configuration if a driver install breaks things? I would like to archive config files for example then restore them. I am using Debian buster/10 |
| 19:54.01 | oblivian | conman is a serial console manager thing? |
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| 19:54.24 | greycat | connman is something like Network-Manager, I believe |
| 19:54.32 | greycat | ,info connman |
| 19:54.33 | judd | Package connman (net, optional) in buster/amd64: Intel Connection Manager daemon. Version: 1.36-2; Size: 396.9k; Installed: 1190k; Homepage: https://01.org/connman |
| 19:54.55 | oblivian | ah |
| 19:55.08 | oblivian | I don't really understand how dns works on debian that well |
| 19:55.11 | hop | Psil0Cybin: like, literally "burn"? |
| 19:55.25 | hop | Psil0Cybin: you can use usb sticks as well, nowadays |
| 19:55.29 | greycat | oblivian: any number of possible ways, depending on what's installed |
| 19:55.34 | oblivian | sometimes I edit my /etc/resolv.conf file, but something randomly overwrites it sometimes |
| 19:55.41 | greycat | !override dns |
| 19:55.41 | dpkg | To have dhclient etc not touch /etc/resolv.conf, the best plan is to configure it not to touch that file. See https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf for more details. Note that by ignoring the DHCP-provided DNS servers, you may find that you are unable to use captive portals or surf the web on some network. Beware creating technical debt by doing things like chattr +i |
| 19:55.48 | oblivian | I'm not sure what tbh |
| 19:56.00 | greycat | usually it's a DHCP client daemon |
| 19:56.06 | Psil0Cybin | hop, that is true, but i am using an old machine, so its just easier for me but yes you are correct. |
| 19:56.14 | hop | Psil0Cybin: ok, just checking |
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| 19:57.20 | lord_chris | greycat: When you start X on display 1, are you running X on dispaly 0 with the same user? |
| 19:57.45 | greycat | Yes, my current session on :0 launched from tty1 is ongoing, and I haven't stopped it and I really really do not want to. |
| 19:58.33 | lord_chris | graycat: Are the variables missing on display 0? |
| 19:59.02 | greycat | The LOCPATH variable is missing from the initial environment of fvwm on :0 as verified by ps eww -p 1205 |
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| 20:00.50 | greycat | The LOCPATH variable is present in the initial environment of fvwm on :1 as verified by ps and also by launching xterms and running date in them. |
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| 20:01.29 | greycat | The difference is on :0 I used "startx" with no arguments, and on :1 I used "startx fvwm -- :1" which bypasses the Debian X session stuff, my .xsession file, etc. |
| 20:01.44 | brutser | grub is complaining about not finding volume group vg_root, but i did create that, the menu entry in grub i have is: set root=(lvm/vg_root-root) and then linux /boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-5-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/vg_root-root rw cryptdevice=/dev/sda:vg_root quiet |
| 20:01.48 | brutser | when i do ls from the grub rescue, i see: (lvm/vg_root-root) (lvm/vg_root-swap) |
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| 20:14.22 | greycat | Well, I'm giving up trying to hunt it down for now. Maybe some day in the distant future it'll turn up serendipitously. |
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| 20:27.18 | jhutchins_wk | hop: People often use "burn" to generically applying an iso to a bootable device. |
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| 20:28.23 | Akuw | is this correct sudo apt-get update tzdata? |
| 20:28.35 | greycat | No. |
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| 20:29.03 | jhutchins_wk | brutser: I've never done LVM on a root volume, shouldn't it be the hard device instead of the lv? Like /dev/sda? |
| 20:29.18 | jhutchins_wk | brutser: You don't usually install grub to the filesystem. |
| 20:29.20 | greycat | Why do you believe that your tzdata package is out of date and needs to be upgraded? In any case, if that is true, it would be "apt-get upgrade" or "apt-get install tzdata". But there is NOTHING you have said so far that points out a need to do that. |
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| 20:29.49 | greycat | You ran the date commands and they showed that your local clock will change automatically in 3 days. |
| 20:30.45 | greycat | You could run more and pinpoint precisely when the clock will change, but I leave that to you. |
| 20:30.51 | Akuw | i mean, apt-get update doesnt take any argument |
| 20:30.56 | Akuw | right? |
| 20:30.56 | greycat | Correct. |
| 20:31.41 | Greyztar | hello, when a command fails usually get exit code 1 and if success its 0 ,but then if say i do a ping and 2 packets fail while 3 packets succeed would that still be 1 or a 3 or something since some of the ping were ok? I had some page bookmarked with those codes but cant find it anymore though if any links would be nice =) |
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| 20:32.12 | Habbie | Greyztar, 'man ping' answers that on my system |
| 20:32.23 | jhutchins_wk | Greyztar: It depends on how the binary is built to report exit status. |
| 20:32.23 | Akuw | to upgrade only specific package? |
| 20:32.29 | greycat | every command's exit status choices are its own |
| 20:32.35 | greycat | Akuw: "apt-get install pkgname" |
| 20:32.45 | Greyztar | Habbie: i forgot ill read through it |
| 20:32.48 | jhutchins_wk | Greyztar: Some have multiple options that will tell you different outcomes. |
| 20:33.17 | Greyztar | jhutchins_wk: thanks for answer,ill dig in the man pages abit see what i can come up with :) |
| 20:33.18 | jhutchins_wk | Greyztar: I can't think of an intermediate result for ping though. Either it did or it didn't. Packet loss? Different question. |
| 20:33.38 | Habbie | jhutchins_wk, the man page actually covers an intermediate case, based on 'count' and 'deadline' command line parameters |
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| 20:34.12 | jhutchins_wk | Habbie: Wouldn't be hard to scrape the percent loss either. |
| 20:34.17 | Habbie | correct |
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| 20:35.27 | jmaher | i have two keyboards, usb and bluetooth - the wired one doesn't beep, the bluetooth connection keeps on resetting and then it beeps - how do i stop this? |
| 20:37.07 | jhutchins_wk | jmaher: Consult the manufacturer's instructions and support. |
| 20:38.07 | jmaher | jhutchins_wk: sorry - i meant it makes the terminals beep, it doesn't physically beep itself |
| 20:39.06 | jhutchins_wk | I think you can disable the beep. Does it beep every keystroke, or only on errors? |
| 20:39.43 | jmaher | I'm running the terminals with +vb and .bashrc has xset b off in it |
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| 20:40.26 | jmaher | jhutchins_wk: only on errors - I want to turn this off, but the setting get reset when ever the blutooth kb reconnects |
| 20:40.46 | jhutchins_wk | Which, being blutooth, it will. |
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| 20:44.31 | jhutchins_wk | jmaher: Maybe a different terminal would handle that better or allow you to disable the bell. |
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| 20:45.58 | jmaher | jhutchins_wk: urxvt +vb is meant to turn off the bell - this works for the usb keyboard, so it never beeps, but the bt one starts beeping on reconnect |
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| 20:50.35 | humpled | did you try putting the setting in /etc/bash.bashrc or /etc/profile instead? |
| 20:51.05 | humpled | for some reason i have setterm -blength 0 just to be sure |
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| 20:58.41 | jmaher | I've tried putting set prefer-visible-bell on in .inputrc - we'll see if this works... |
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| 21:08.48 | humpled | eek |
| 21:09.06 | humpled | are you sure? that flashes the whole terminal iirc |
| 21:09.18 | greycat | that's what a visual bell (vb) is |
| 21:09.48 | humpled | more of a cymbal than a bell |
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| 21:22.10 | jhutchins_wk | remembers when there were actual bells |
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| 21:25.40 | Akuw | has Debian GNU/Linux 8 support? |
| 21:25.52 | lupine | no. upgrade. |
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| 21:28.21 | SerajewelKS | 8 has LTS support |
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| 21:28.30 | SerajewelKS | i guess that's redundant. LTS |
| 21:29.09 | SerajewelKS | Akuw: 8 is under LTS until 2020-06-30 |
| 21:31.32 | annadane | and LTS is only certain packages |
| 21:31.33 | brutser | grub is complaining about not finding volume group vg_root, but i did create that, the menu entry in grub i have is: set root=(lvm/vg_root-root) and then linux /boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-5-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/vg_root-root rw cryptdevice=/dev/sda:vg_root quiet |
| 21:31.35 | brutser | anyone can say me what's wrong? |
| 21:31.39 | annadane | unless you really really need to use 8, upgrade |
| 21:31.47 | annadane | but if you want debian 10, you have to go through 9 first |
| 21:32.09 | SerajewelKS | brutser: did you just create the VG? |
| 21:32.32 | brutser | SerajewelKS: when installing i named -> pv: luks_root vg: vg_root lv: vg_root-root and vg_root-swap |
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| 21:32.44 | brutser | i did expert install and encrypted rootfs |
| 21:33.00 | SerajewelKS | ah. btw you don't need expert install to do that. |
| 21:33.18 | brutser | SerajewelKS: yes i know, but i needed detached header and other settings |
| 21:33.22 | SerajewelKS | ah |
| 21:33.33 | brutser | now i manually try to configure grub.cfg |
| 21:33.37 | brutser | but it's not working |
| 21:33.37 | SerajewelKS | not sure then, i've not used detached header so it might be part of what's confusing the kernel |
| 21:33.54 | brutser | decrypting is done, it's not about that |
| 21:34.09 | brutser | it's about lvm really and grub.cfg not correctly configured |
| 21:34.09 | SerajewelKS | someone else might know. i use lvm on md-raid on luks and don't have issues but all the metadata for all layers is in the volume |
| 21:36.03 | Akuw | LTS? |
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| 21:36.27 | dvs | long term support |
| 21:36.39 | dvs | so not full support |
| 21:36.51 | SerajewelKS | basically security stuff will likely get fixed as well as serious bugs that break the system |
| 21:37.20 | SerajewelKS | so if you're not having problems you will probably be okay but you must upgrade before 2020-06-30 because at that date there will be no updates, period |
| 21:37.30 | SerajewelKS | so you should plan to upgrade soon |
| 21:37.48 | SerajewelKS | but it's not like your system will fall apart in a week if you don't upgrade |
| 21:38.02 | SerajewelKS | just make sure that the upgrade is on your radar for the near future |
| 21:38.26 | terrible | wc/ |
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| 21:44.11 | HotBeefDip | is there a way to know what updates will definitely be in 10.1? I found this but I don't think these are necessarily scheduled for a particular release... https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Configuring_Apt_Sources |
| 21:44.17 | HotBeefDip | whoops, wrong link |
| 21:44.27 | HotBeefDip | https://release.debian.org/proposed-updates/stable.html |
| 21:44.27 | HotBeefDip | there |
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| 22:15.16 | otyugh | hey. Using debian XFCE I get a strange behaviour. Just after lightdm, I get a weird black screen for 20-30sec, then the X environement pops and everything is fine. But there is no trace of this big waiting time in systemd-analyze. What could it be ? Using xfce (lightdm+xfce4-session) |
| 22:16.03 | jhutchins | otyugh: Once you're in the GUI, you're no longer at system level, so systemd isn't part of it. |
| 22:16.16 | jhutchins | (Yet.)(Thankfully.) |
| 22:17.06 | otyugh | Any clue how I could trace the thing that is crippling GUI's start ? |
| 22:17.07 | jhutchins | otyugh: It sounds like it's just blackframe while lightdm hands off to xfce. You could look at Xorg.0.log, but xfce itself doesn't really log anywhere. |
| 22:18.23 | jhutchins | otyugh: Too many variables. What features and plugins and applets do you have active? What startup apps? What hardware? What CPU & RAM? What are the chances that one of us has had the exact same combination of all that and maybe seen this happen? |
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| 22:18.43 | otyugh | there is logs from 21" to 120" whhich would make a leap of almost 2 minute. Could be that. |
| 22:19.11 | jhutchins | otyugh: You could try a different DM, you could try a different Desktop, you could try creating a different user. |
| 22:19.38 | otyugh | I know I used the exact same system in a virtualbox and didn't get this behaviour. Guess it's a driver thingy, then. |
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| 22:20.56 | jhutchins | otyugh: Something reacting to the physical hardware. |
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| 22:26.45 | annadane | systemd-as-a-service.service |
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| 22:32.41 | otyugh | jhutchins I found the problem. Around 120s the gui was starting fine. Same time as in dmesg I could see "crng init done". Which is about making random numbers. Installing haveged trims down my boot time from 120sec to 18sec now o/ |
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| 22:36.13 | ryouma | i vaguely remember that. wiggling mouse might do it too. maybe. |
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| 22:40.51 | otyugh | ryouma, wigglig mouse is a lot of work every time :D |
| 22:41.10 | otyugh | But it would be fun if it was part of a normal boot on every computer ^^ |
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| 23:24.39 | nvz | ryouma: if you wiggle it more than twice, you're just playing with it.. |
| 23:25.20 | ZaZaGX | wiggle wiggle |
| 23:30.35 | ZaZaGX | when is the exact time and during which time zone will the debian 10.1 happen? |
| 23:30.43 | ZaZaGX | update |
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| 23:32.23 | nvz | ZaZaGX: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases/PointReleases see the Announcement of point releases section |
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| 23:34.06 | ZaZaGX | i only see about it updates every 2 months |
| 23:34.23 | brutser | guys, i do expert install and then go to shell and perform these commands: https://pastebin.com/ehbnaC0H < why would that not work? when i reboot it just says it cannot find volume group vg_group and never ask for passphrase |
| 23:34.32 | brutser | what am i forgetting here? |
| 23:34.45 | nvz | ZaZaGX: 10.1 is scheduled for tomorrow |
| 23:35.09 | dvs | raises lots of bug reports |
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| 23:35.41 | nvz | https://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2019/07/msg00032.html why this guy announced that on debian-live mailing list I have nfc |
| 23:35.52 | nvz | seems like its the wrong place to say that |
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| 23:36.23 | ZaZaGX | yeah i just found that same website |
| 23:36.30 | nvz | updates the wiki cause it seems to not include the most obvious place to look |
| 23:37.07 | ZaZaGX | you think it'll happened at midnight Pacific Standard Time? |
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| 23:48.55 | astra | anyone having issues installing modprobe on buster? |
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| 23:51.48 | LtL | astra: looks like it's in the kmod package |
| 23:51.55 | nvz | ,i kmod |
| 23:51.56 | judd | Package kmod (admin, important) in buster/amd64: tools for managing Linux kernel modules. Version: 26-1; Size: 88.1k; Installed: 237k; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/kmod |
| 23:52.17 | nvz | ,file sbin/modprobe |
| 23:52.22 | judd | Search for sbin/modprobe in buster/amd64: kmod: sbin/modprobe |
| 23:52.38 | nvz | dpkg point release =~ s#by referencing a Debian <mirror> in /etc/apt/sources.list, then#with#;s# http://#https://release.debian.org/ for a schedule, see also: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases/PointReleases# |
| 23:52.39 | brutser | guys, i do expert debian install and then go to shell and perform these commands: https://pastebin.com/ehbnaC0H < why would that not work? when i reboot it just says it cannot find volume group vg_group and never ask for passphrase |
| 23:53.06 | astra | thank you, dear ones |
| 23:53.20 | nvz | hmm apparently it can't do multiple edits in same line or my syntax is wrong :P |
| 23:53.20 | astra | i'll read those carefully :) |
| 23:53.21 | brutser | is there some extra config i need to do for fde + lvm? i do this from expert install shell, not from debian installer direct, so perhaps i am missing something? |
| 23:56.08 | nvz | brutser: 1) don't EVER use pastebin.com, use paste.debian.net or something sane 2) install cryptsetup-initramfs |
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| 23:56.19 | nvz | !pastebin.com |
| 23:56.20 | dpkg | pastebin.com mangles input, takes forever to load, is full of js, often makes us enter a CAPTCHA to see your paste and fills the screen with ads. Please use a different site, like http://paste.debian.net/ (or give us the raw link like pastebin.com/raw/<identifier>, in other words pastebin.com/foo becomes pastebin.com/raw/foo) |
| 23:56.58 | brutser | nvz: ok I did not know! |
| 23:57.56 | nvz | brutser: now you know ;) and to get the prompt at boot to unlock LUKS you need cryptsetup in initramfs |
| 23:58.32 | nvz | brutser: if you don't see it updating initramfs when installing that, you may have to do it manually.. idk.. I never done it, I normally just let the installer put it in there |
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| 23:58.51 | brutser | nvz: ok, i was wondering what was the debian installer doing different than me, i guess that's it |
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| 23:59.07 | nvz | but since you claimed to be an expert and didn't tell the installer to install it.. heh.. you apparently didnt do this |
| 23:59.07 | brutser | nvz: do i need /etc/crypttab? |
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| 23:59.31 | nvz | brutser: uh yeah.. |
