| 00:00.36 | OS-57164 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:00.48 | annadane | suggest not using that password |
| 00:00.52 | annadane | now that we've all seen it |
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| 00:01.40 | mishehu | I thought everybody used "password" as the password |
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| 00:03.06 | annadane | i know i do |
| 00:03.59 | Unit193 | That's not a password anyway. |
| 00:04.36 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | So, I finally found the insanity that's causing my problem. |
| 00:05.06 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | Udisks2 is packaged with /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/org.freedesktop.UDisks2.policy which contains this little gem: <allow_any>auth_admin</allow_any> |
| 00:05.39 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | Why that's not restricted to some say... "allow_group_storage" or something, I have no idea. |
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| 00:08.45 | warsoul | im doing a new installation on a new pc? can i backup all my settings and everthing from my old pc? |
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| 00:10.11 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | warsoul: Yes. Copy over your $HOME to a flash-drive or something. |
| 00:11.33 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | warsoul: I'd recommend only copying the directories under $HOME/.config/ and the $HOME/.$myprogram (where $myprogram is a program you care about) rather than the whole thing, as old incompatible config formats and $HOME/.cache content can break a bunch of things. |
| 00:12.15 | warsoul | that will transfer all my settings in desktop, irc, panels etc.? |
| 00:12.39 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | warsoul: Copying the whole $HOME would. But that may lead to breakage of some things that you'll have to debug on your own after. |
| 00:13.49 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | warsoul: Well, assuming you didn't install servers which look for settings in /etc/* |
| 00:14.05 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | You'd know if you had installed those though. |
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| 00:16.02 | *** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.1 point release /msg dpkg 10.1; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.11 ; 9.11 needs dist-upgrade | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 00:17.21 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | Correcting my prior statement regarding <allow_any>, its value should be "no". |
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| 00:22.15 | FunkyBob | so I've just rebooted, and suddently my microphone doesn't work... which is rather a pain for work |
| 00:22.36 | FunkyBob | has anyone any ideas on how I can chase down what the problem is? |
| 00:24.07 | warsoul | can somebody explain a little more thanks |
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| 00:26.46 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | FunkyBob: Have you checked PulseAudio's current settings? |
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| 00:28.16 | FunkyBob | yes |
| 00:28.52 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | FunkyBob: If you run lsusb, is it there? |
| 00:30.34 | FunkyBob | the device shows in pa... |
| 00:30.41 | FunkyBob | it just doesn't get any input |
| 00:30.55 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | Is it muted or not the current default input sink? |
| 00:31.20 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | Alternatively, has the program you're using chosen another isnk. |
| 00:31.22 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | *sink |
| 00:31.28 | FunkyBob | neither are muted, and switching back 'n forth in pavucontrol makes no difference |
| 00:32.34 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | Hm, try running "pulseaudio --kill && pulseaudio" in a terminal. It'll provide output that may indicate errors. |
| 00:32.44 | FunkyBob | k |
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| 00:33.41 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | You'll have to reopen pavucontrol |
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| 00:34.30 | FunkyBob | E: [pulseaudio] bluez5-util.c: GetManagedObjects() failed: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken. |
| 00:34.39 | FunkyBob | that looks bluetooth related, so I'll ignore it |
| 00:35.37 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | That's fair. |
| 00:35.55 | FunkyBob | no other output yet |
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| 00:43.44 | FunkyBob | seems there was a pulseaudio package update a few days ago... |
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| 00:48.33 | ZamenhofGanymede | yes there was adding some support for dolby atmos amoung other things iirc |
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| 00:53.58 | FunkyBob | ok, think I've traced the culprit |
| 00:54.19 | dvs | runs away |
| 00:54.25 | annadane | COME BACK HERE |
| 00:54.30 | dvs | doh! |
| 00:54.58 | FunkyBob | seems recently I removed the amd firmware package, as this is an intel box |
| 00:55.21 | dvs | FunkyBob, firmware for what? |
| 00:55.30 | FunkyBob | the firmware, yes |
| 00:55.38 | dvs | Wifi? microcode? |
| 00:55.42 | FunkyBob | and that seems to have knocked out the firmware misc nonfree |
| 00:55.48 | FunkyBob | microcode |
| 00:56.12 | FunkyBob | firmware-amd-graphics:amd64 and amd64-microcode:amd64 |
| 00:56.27 | FunkyBob | adding back firmware-linux-nonfree:amd64 seems to have fixed my mic [after yet another reboot] |
| 00:56.50 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | Ah. Interesting. |
| 00:57.25 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | So I guess on modern laptops that hardware is tied tightly-enough into the processor to depend on microcode updates. |
| 00:57.26 | FunkyBob | Install: firmware-amd-graphics:amd64 (20190717-2, automatic), amd64-microcode:amd64 (3.20181128.1, automatic), firmware-linux-nonfree:amd64 (20190717-2, automatic), firmware-linux:amd64 (20190717-2) |
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| 00:59.10 | FunkyBob | Aurora_iz_kosmos: which might make sense, if this were an amd system... |
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| 01:00.48 | FunkyBob | ISTM whatever the issue was it was in one of the other packages that were dropped when I removed the amd ones |
| 01:01.59 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | It's probably this: firmware-linux-nonfree:amd64 |
| 01:02.18 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | You could test dropping the microcode package while keeping this one. |
| 01:02.48 | FunkyBob | I might try that later, sure... right now, I need to get back to $DAYJOB |
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| 01:06.40 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | Ah, of course. |
| 01:07.25 | FunkyBob | many thanks to all for helping out |
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| 01:17.34 | ZamenhofGanymede | r.e pulseaudio https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Notes/13.0/ |
| 01:18.03 | ZamenhofGanymede | so not atmos, my bad |
| 01:18.55 | FunkyBob | interesting... I think my meddling may have also fixed the "mic via headphone combo jack" too |
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| 01:44.15 | gunchyo | Hi how do I do dist-upgrade without x11-utils installing? this is a headless server |
| 01:44.20 | gunchyo | do I need to ? |
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| 02:24.25 | warsoul | https://pastebin.com/bbESsRSE |
| 02:24.35 | warsoul | im having this error trying ssh on my vps |
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| 02:30.14 | karlpinc` | warsoul: So what is your question? |
| 02:30.42 | warsoul | i cant connect ssh to my vps |
| 02:30.47 | warsoul | that messages pops out |
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| 02:31.17 | karlpinc` | warsoul: Well, are you worried that the remote end has a new identity? |
| 02:32.55 | SerajewelKS | i can't find any examples of how to hot-remove virtio storage devices from a qemu-kvm VM using the monitor |
| 02:33.33 | warsoul | no i added a new IP to the vps |
| 02:33.41 | warsoul | i dont know if it was because of that? |
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| 02:34.35 | karlpinc | warsoul: You will get that message if you re-used an old IP that you'd previously used. |
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| 02:36.34 | karlpinc | s/previously used/previously ssh-ed to/ |
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| 02:45.30 | warsoul | i have a issue |
| 02:45.41 | warsoul | with any internet browser i use |
| 02:45.53 | warsoul | the colors they dont look good at all |
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| 03:16.10 | skyline | Hello, World! |
| 03:17.26 | dvs | core dump |
| 03:22.03 | skyline | Anybody know about SNORT? And not the kind with a straw... :) |
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| 03:24.33 | skyline | Hello, World! |
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| 03:44.44 | karlpinc | !anybody |
| 03:44.44 | dpkg | Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>. |
| 03:46.57 | skyline | Hello, World! |
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| 04:04.30 | toruvinn | world is rude, clearly. |
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| 04:17.58 | annadane | for future reference, snort is a package in debian |
| 04:18.07 | annadane | not that that helps people who go "hello? hello?? hello???" |
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| 04:51.12 | bigMouthCommie | just installed deb10. how do i enable autologin, and get the system to automatically conncet to a hidden net? running xfce. |
| 04:54.14 | EoflaOE | bigMouthCommie: About the auto login, which display manager are you running? |
| 04:56.05 | EoflaOE | You can check by telling me an output of /etc/X11/default-display-manager |
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| 04:57.21 | bigMouthCommie | EoflaOE: lightdm, i assume but... let me grab that output for u |
| 04:57.40 | bigMouthCommie | ya. lightdm |
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| 04:59.25 | EoflaOE | bigMouthCommie: Are there anything related to autologin in the configuration file? sudo nano /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf |
| 05:00.28 | bigMouthCommie | EoflaOE: i tried to follow some directions that were on stackexchange, but 1) they didn't work and 2) i couldn't log in to the gui at all. it would take the passwd and kick me out. logged in with tty and undid all my changes. |
| 05:00.57 | bigMouthCommie | EoflaOE: so... yea. i found a bunch of autologin configs in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf but idk which ones to flick |
| 05:03.04 | EoflaOE | bigMouthCommie: Uncomment the autologin-user and autologin-user-timeout parts, and insert your username after the autologin-user part, so it looks like "autologin-user=<username>" |
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| 05:06.07 | bigMouthCommie | done |
| 05:06.15 | bigMouthCommie | gonna reboot. brb.... |
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| 05:10.11 | bigMouthCommie | issp |
| 05:10.14 | bigMouthCommie | cool |
| 05:10.15 | bigMouthCommie | lol |
| 05:10.26 | bigMouthCommie | oh. that's another thing but can we get the wifi going first? |
| 05:10.30 | bigMouthCommie | i use a hidden network |
| 05:10.50 | bigMouthCommie | how do i get it to connect on boot? (or on login or w/e makes the most sense) |
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| 05:23.49 | EoflaOE | bigMouthCommie: Have you tried "sudo nmcli device set IFNAME autoconnect yes"? You can check for devices using "sudo nmcli device". |
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| 05:52.28 | bigMouthCommie | EoflaOE: no... |
| 05:52.32 | bigMouthCommie | but i will! |
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| 05:53.48 | bigMouthCommie | ok. i set it BUT i am in the middle of a wesnoth scenario |
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| 07:00.25 | harlan | I upgraded to buster and now the machine likes to suspend/hibernate after several minutes. This is a server box. How do I disable this and leave the box running? |
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| 07:02.05 | k_sze | How do I get a list of my HDDs in a tree (I want to know which HDD is connected to which controller) |
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| 07:09.45 | Tuor | Hi, I'm trying to analyse a very old (lenny) Debian system. This system doesn't have tcpdump installed. I found some services on it, which have to be replaced. I would just like to analyse the network trafic, to know if there is other trafic I would not expect. Is there something like a package archive? |
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| 07:17.41 | nkuttler | !tell Tuor about archive |
| 07:17.57 | nkuttler | uh, wait.. |
| 07:17.59 | nkuttler | !snapshot |
| 07:17.59 | dpkg | http://snapshot.debian.org/ is an archive of almost all Debian packages uploaded since 2005, including those removed from the official archives because they were very buggy, unusable, broken, vulnerable or in some way non-free. This service replaces snapshot.debian.net. http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100412 |
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| 07:22.53 | Tuor | nkuttler: thx! |
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| 08:51.52 | mystic | does anyone use the 'parallel space' android app? i wondered if its secure or not |
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| 08:57.14 | Raven737 | Hi, question, I have a small debian system and when i connect it directly to my laptop the NIC blinks and I get a connection but when i then connect it with the same cable to a switch, the NIC led does not blink at all and link states no-carrier |
| 08:57.36 | Raven737 | anything i can do by software to get it to work? I tried ifup/ifdown with force etc |
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| 08:58.17 | ratrace | Raven737: tried another cable? |
| 08:58.46 | ratrace | wait... directly, as in no switch in-between? is that a crossover cable? |
| 08:59.16 | fireba11 | or at least one of the NICs auto-sensing? |
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| 09:01.23 | jelly | mystic: sounds like a question for #android not #debian ? |
| 09:01.33 | Raven737 | ratrace: yes, did not working. I now plugged in another switch and it works... i guess switch but the wired thing is that the same switch port works for another system |
| 09:01.50 | vlt | Raven737: NIC to NIC working but not NIC to switch also to me sounds like a crossover cable used without auto-sensing. |
| 09:01.53 | Raven737 | jelly: it\s a debian linux system, not android |
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| 09:02.04 | vlt | Raven737: The second switch then propably did. |
| 09:02.28 | vlt | Raven737: We'd have to ask mystic. |
| 09:02.30 | Raven737 | vlt: ok yea i guess i try to find a crossover cable ... long time since I had one i think .. |
| 09:02.43 | ratrace | no, you don't need it |
| 09:03.03 | vlt | Raven737: I'd think you actually have one right there. |
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| 09:03.24 | jelly | Raven737: that was for a different user, not you. There are sometimes parallel conversations taking place at the same time |
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| 09:06.43 | mystic | ask me what |
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| 09:07.06 | mystic | yea its an android app.. couldnt find an android room at first.. but they havent answered me anyway lol |
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| 09:13.04 | BCMM | mystic: also, "is it secure" is barely a meaningful question |
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| 09:13.29 | BCMM | work out what specific bad thing you want to use it to prevent, and then ask about that |
| 09:13.57 | BCMM | or what specific bad thing you are worried it might cause, if that's what you meant |
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| 09:20.49 | mystic | I mean, if i send messages via that service would they still be encrypted, or the app might compromse them |
| 09:22.15 | mystic | i want to keep my business contacts seprate from personal. that app allows mutliple accounts of facebook messenger for example on one device. but its useless if the data is compromised by the app. i dont know |
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| 09:25.57 | mystic | hello helloshitty |
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| 09:46.00 | Abdullah | ,polybar |
| 09:47.04 | annadane | you're looking for ,v |
| 09:47.08 | annadane | but no, polybar isn't in debian |
| 09:47.10 | annadane | ,v polybar |
| 09:47.12 | judd | No package named 'polybar' was found in amd64. |
| 09:47.28 | Abdullah | annadane: yeah its in testing. I think |
| 09:48.15 | annadane | no it isn't |
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| 09:48.29 | Abdullah | then I have to compile it :) |
| 09:48.37 | annadane | yep. |
| 09:48.40 | Abdullah | or maybe package it too for debian |
| 09:48.53 | annadane | not sure why no one bothered to package it yet, i think it relies on a ton of dependencies |
| 09:48.59 | annadane | it's fairly popular, odd it isn't in debian |
| 09:49.34 | Abdullah | The only reason for not packaging it for me is that, it wasn't working good with my dwm. so I stopped using it. |
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| 09:50.22 | Abdullah | python-xcbgen libxcb-icccm4-dev libxcb1-dev xcb-proto libxcb-image0-dev libxcb-randr0-dev libalsaplayer-dev wireless-tools libcurlpp-dev libcairo2-dev libjsoncpp-dev libxcb-util0-dev libxcb-xkb-dev libxcb-ewmh-dev cmake are the dependencies |
| 09:50.53 | annadane | that... doesn't sound bad, i guess |
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| 10:49.11 | pigeon123 | I want to go straight into X. So I thought of startx in /etc/rc.local "Only console users are allowed to run the X server" Will rc.local be on a console or not? Consider I have xdm although I don't want it |
| 10:49.28 | Habbie | pigeon123, pick the *dm you want; systemctl enable it; reboot |
| 10:49.40 | pigeon123 | Habbie: I've tried them all. |
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| 10:52.10 | StyXman | pigeon123: it's running as root without a tty, so no, no console then |
| 10:52.14 | StyXman | (I think) |
| 10:52.29 | StyXman | pigeon123: tried them all and what happened? |
| 10:52.31 | pigeon123 | I will have to disable security then. |
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| 10:53.03 | StyXman | pigeon123: I don't think it's security related |
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| 11:32.44 | duude__ | o/ lal |
| 11:32.46 | duude__ | all* |
| 11:33.05 | duude__ | Right now I'm an Ubuntu user and I'm deciding to which distro to move. I'm choosing between Fedora/Debian. What are some pros of Debian over Fedora? |
| 11:34.14 | StyXman | mora pkgs in the distro |
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| 11:36.21 | duude__ | StyXman I was told that Fedora is more bleeding edge than Debian and that Debian sometimes doesn't "update" their packages for a few months |
| 11:36.25 | duude__ | Is this true |
| 11:37.25 | e | bleeding-edge-ness is not a goal for debian; stability is |
| 11:38.23 | duude__ | e, does this really matter for a regular user though? |
| 11:38.32 | duude__ | I don't plan running a server on my distro |
| 11:38.45 | e | it's up to you |
| 11:38.46 | duude__ | So I'm ok with occasional issues |
| 11:38.57 | duude__ | Idk not still sure haha |
| 11:39.27 | nvz | dpkg, why debian |
| 11:39.27 | dpkg | Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also http://www.debian.org/intro/free http://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/talks/why_debian/ http://www.aboutdebian.com/ . As an added bonus, you get to ask questions in #debian. |
| 11:39.42 | nvz | dpkg, social contract |
| 11:39.42 | dpkg | The Debian Social Contract is the document that defines Debian's purpose, see http://www.debian.org/social_contract Summary: Debian is a 100% free software platform suitable for running all software. |
| 11:40.10 | duude__ | I see. |
| 11:40.15 | duude__ | Does fedora care about freedom? |
| 11:40.26 | duude__ | actually I'll just google that |
| 11:40.28 | duude__ | sorry for asking you guys |
| 11:42.04 | StyXman | duude__: I ride debian sid and it's a god balance between 'stable' (works) and new |
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| 11:42.38 | StyXman | I don't know about specific pkgs and versions, but sid/unstable is good enough for me |
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| 11:43.05 | StyXman | and if you're a dev of those new languages that like to handle the deps themselves, then it's not an issue for you anyways |
| 11:43.17 | jelly | duude__: few years, more than few months |
| 11:44.34 | duude__ | jelly yeah that's a big issue, however I just found out aboud debian sid |
| 11:44.42 | duude__ | It looks really nice, I think I could totally use it |
| 11:45.22 | nvz | debian testing/unstable is not just some newer branch, its for testing not meant for regular use. |
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| 11:45.26 | ayekat | duude__: it's just how stable releases work - look e.g. at (also rpm-based) centos |
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| 11:46.18 | duude__ | nvz, well is there anything between debian stable and unstable? |
| 11:46.26 | duude__ | Like, updates every 1-2 months |
| 11:46.31 | duude__ | So that you're not so far behind |
| 11:46.47 | ayekat | there is testing, but that's (almost) rolling release |
| 11:46.54 | duude__ | I can accept some instability. I just checked Debian sid and it's updated every few hours? That's too much |
| 11:47.23 | ayekat | there is no "updates every 1-2 months" in debian - there is a release every 2 years, and the rest is kind of a pipeline that leads to the next release |
| 11:47.24 | duude__ | ayekat yeah I'd love to skip rolling |
| 11:47.37 | duude__ | That sucks |
| 11:47.55 | duude__ | So with Debian it's either 100% stability or 0% |
| 11:48.04 | duude__ | At least when it comes to desktop environment |
| 11:48.04 | ayekat | again, that's just how releases work - and different distros have different release cycles |
| 11:48.25 | ayekat | with fedora and ubuntu, you get a release every 6 months, centos OTOH is... a couple of years? |
| 11:48.28 | ayekat | checks |
| 11:48.33 | Habbie | yes |
| 11:48.47 | Habbie | 2010, 2014, 2019 |
| 11:49.30 | duude__ | ayekat, yeah that's what I like about Ubuntu LTS at the moment |
| 11:49.37 | duude__ | It's stable and sometimes updated |
| 11:49.40 | duude__ | And not rolling |
| 11:49.42 | ayekat | duude__: the ubuntu LTS releases are every 2 years as well, though |
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| 11:49.57 | duude__ | Indeed, but they get major updates every 6 months |
| 11:50.10 | ayekat | duude__: nope, those are simply the non-LTS releases |
| 11:50.10 | duude__ | 18.04, -||-.01, .02 etc |
| 11:50.21 | ayekat | ah those |
| 11:50.25 | duude__ | Yeah those |
| 11:50.28 | duude__ | Like Ubuntu 18.04.3 LTS :P |
| 11:50.29 | ayekat | but debian gets 10.1, 10.2, 10.3 :-P |
| 11:50.34 | duude__ | Oh it does? |
| 11:50.36 | duude__ | awesome |
| 11:50.36 | nvz | duude__: debian stable updates plenty often.. if you have a specific need for something specific, you install it |
| 11:50.37 | ayekat | duude__: those are bugfix releases |
| 11:50.37 | ratrace | duude__: Ubuntu LTS is updated more or less at the same pace as debian. Debian has point releases which bring updates similar to ubuntu SRU |
| 11:50.49 | duude__ | I thought debian had to bugfix releases |
| 11:50.54 | ayekat | duude__: you don't get the shiny new features that you'd get in a regular release |
| 11:50.56 | duude__ | that it was literally every 2 years haha |
| 11:51.02 | ratrace | Ubuntu non-LTS is not recommended in production, it's testing and as stable as Debian Testing |
| 11:51.20 | duude__ | Alright Debian stable it is then :D |
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| 11:51.31 | nvz | duude__: debian releases normal updates regularly when they are fixed |
| 11:52.04 | nvz | there is no time cycle in debian, everything from updates to stable releases are made when its ready |
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| 11:52.41 | duude__ | nvz: I see :) alright you convinced me! |
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| 11:53.22 | duude__ | I'll only miss ppas, but hopefully that's easy to overcome with proper debs |
| 11:53.25 | nvz | only real time frame is the I believe its 5 days now something has to pass muster in sid before migrating out |
| 11:54.07 | duude__ | I see |
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| 11:54.24 | duude__ | Sorry for asking, I'm just a bit scared of one thing |
| 11:54.30 | duude__ | I'm so used to using and working with PPA's |
| 11:54.39 | duude__ | How is it done in Debian? With deb only? |
| 11:54.51 | whislock | duude__: In terms of quality, you won't miss PPAs once you get used to not using them. |
| 11:55.08 | nvz | duude__: ppa are a damn nightmare |
| 11:55.44 | nvz | duude__: we have backports.org is the closest we come to a PPA |
| 11:55.46 | duude__ | whislock, nvz: I see. Why is that? How do you guys get your packages? |
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| 11:56.08 | nvz | duude__: look at the code that implements it.. its a self-explanitory mess |
| 11:56.16 | ayekat | duude__: it helps to get into the habit of "if it's not in the repos, I probably don't want to run it" :-) |
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| 11:56.19 | whislock | duude__: You have to trust the PPA publisher to test their packages. Good luck. |
| 11:56.22 | duude__ | O, will do that right now |
| 11:56.31 | duude__ | whislock yeah that I don't like about PPAs |
| 11:56.46 | duude__ | you can easily get a virus if the dev decides to be evil for some reason |
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| 11:57.00 | whislock | I run Debian on systems whose stability I care about. PPAs are, in general, anathema to that concept. |
| 11:57.04 | duude__ | nvz: yup they're completely private |
| 11:57.06 | duude__ | it's a risk |
| 11:57.06 | ayekat | also, don't assume malice where incompetence is a sufficient explanation |
| 11:57.11 | ratrace | technically, you can get a "virus" even if a debian maintaine decides to be evil for some reason |
| 11:57.19 | duude__ | I see |
| 11:57.26 | duude__ | sorry for asking such stupid questions |
| 11:57.29 | duude__ | I'm new to this |
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| 11:58.02 | whislock | AFAIK, nothing stops a PPA publisher from publishing a package that would override some core package. |
| 11:58.28 | whislock | "here, have this shiny new libc!" Aaaaaand it's over. |
| 11:59.12 | ratrace | ubuntu is moving away from PPAs. Snaps are supposedly long-term replacement for PPAs |
| 11:59.20 | ratrace | (and a number of regularly packaged apps too) |
| 11:59.29 | whislock | There's also Ubuntu's bizarre habit of forcing half-baked new stuff into LTS releases. netplan is an example. |
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| 12:01.28 | duude__ | alright alright you convinced me :P |
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| 12:07.00 | duude__ | Which desktop environment do you use? |
| 12:07.05 | duude__ | Kde or gnome or something else |
| 12:07.08 | duude__ | or none |
| 12:07.19 | diogenes_ | uses XFCE |
| 12:07.32 | ayekat | but if you are concerned about being up to date in terms of features, debian stable might not be the most satisfying choice, though |
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| 12:08.04 | duude__ | ayekat well I was told it's the same as ubuntu LTS |
| 12:08.08 | diogenes_ | you can always use snaps for more up-to-date software, or appimages or whatever. |
| 12:08.08 | duude__ | and i'm happy with it so far |
| 12:08.21 | duude__ | ayekat do you use xfce too? |
| 12:08.30 | ayekat | duude__: ah well, in that case you'll be happy enough ^^ |
| 12:08.32 | ayekat | duude__: no |
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| 12:09.41 | duude__ | ayekat what do you use then :P |
| 12:10.25 | ayekat | https://gitlab.com/ayekat/karuiwm |
| 12:10.36 | ayekat | duude__: but I would not recommend it to anyone yet |
| 12:10.59 | duude__ | seems like no one uses gnome here |
| 12:11.05 | duude__ | i wanted to use it |
| 12:11.13 | eemilian | i use awesomewm |
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| 12:11.33 | ayekat | duude__: gnome is the default selection when installing a DE in the installer - there is fair chance some in here are using it |
| 12:11.34 | eemilian | previously used ion3/notion and before that kde |
| 12:11.43 | StyXman | nvz: it is not meant for regular use, but it can be use regularly :) |
| 12:12.12 | duude__ | it'll try out xfce |
| 12:12.14 | duude__ | it seems nice enough |
| 12:12.18 | StyXman | my personal suggestion is to install apt-listchanges and apt-listbugs and read them carefully on every update |
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| 12:14.21 | StyXman | just debian stable updates are security/bugs fixes that you anyways get by updatting it regularly |
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| 12:16.40 | StyXman | snaps can be another nightmare, i tried to install nextcloud that way and it came with pg and apache |
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| 12:17.26 | StyXman | duude__: then use gnome |
| 12:18.50 | majestic1 | I am running a C program, each time I do "ps aux | grep progname" I get a different PID |
| 12:18.53 | majestic1 | "majestic 15999 0.0 0.0 11844 888 pts/9 S+ 14:18 0:00 grep --color=auto mish |
| 12:18.59 | majestic1 | whats up with that? |
| 12:19.06 | majestic1 | How do I terminate that process |
| 12:19.07 | Habbie | majestic1, that's the PID of your grep |
| 12:19.15 | Habbie | majestic1, it will have terminated by the time you get your prompt back, every time |
| 12:19.28 | majestic1 | It does not terminate when I close my program |
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| 12:19.44 | StyXman | majestic1: use pgrep |
| 12:19.55 | Habbie | majestic1, every time you type 'ps ... | grep ...' you start a new ps and a new grep; it is -that grep- that you are seeing |
| 12:20.02 | Habbie | majestic1, you are, apparently, not seeing the program you care about in that output |
| 12:20.36 | Mdlpe | hi, yesterday my debian freeze while I'm surfing on the net. Today, I have no more icon, right click on the mouse, screen background on my Xfce desktop. An idea ? |
| 12:20.47 | majestic1 | Where do I find the real PID of my program, I print the PID of my program upon execution so I now the real PID |
| 12:20.52 | majestic1 | but I cannot find it in example "top" etc |
| 12:21.03 | majestic1 | know* |
| 12:21.27 | ratrace | majestic1: does your program remain running when you run top? |
| 12:21.33 | StyXman | majestic1: use pgrep |
| 12:21.35 | ratrace | something tells me it outputs PID and exits |
| 12:21.57 | StyXman | Mdlpe: did you rm -rf anything lately? |
| 12:22.29 | Mdlpe | StyXman: rm -rf ? |
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| 12:24.09 | ayekat | +1 for "use pgrep" - and maybe that program execs another program, so it's no longer visible under its original name |
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| 12:24.46 | ayekat | ... or it's simply not running ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
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| 12:30.27 | majestic1 | StyXman: ratrace: So I use "pgrep myprog" and get the correct PID. Then I close my program and dont get any output from pgrep, but that "grep --color=auto mish" process is still running it seems like, or what exactly is that? |
| 12:31.02 | majestic1 | I dont want any process from my program to be running when I have closed it |
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| 12:34.13 | ratrace | majestic1: you sure it's not running in another terminal or something? maybe it's orphaned when you force-killed its parents. you can always kill it by PID |
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| 12:37.58 | majestic1 | ratrace: Maybe I try to restart my computer and see what happens after another launch |
| 12:38.01 | majestic1 | brb |
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| 12:41.13 | lowin | I installed latest kernel image from buster-backports but unfortunately it isn't configured with CONFIG_CRYPTO_ADIANTUM :( |
| 12:41.32 | lowin | Any other way to get it besides compiling a full custom kernel? |
| 12:43.07 | lowin | ubuntu's kernel image comes with adiantum module. Is there a way to add ubuntu's repository and install linux-image-amd64 without all hell breaking loose? |
| 12:46.46 | ratrace | lowin: which kernel version are you trying? |
| 12:47.16 | lowin | ratrace, 5.2.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 |
| 12:47.40 | dka | Is there a free and open source google drive client for linux debian ? |
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| 12:48.13 | jelly | dka: that works reliably? If you find one let me know. |
| 12:49.24 | dka | jelly, I've seen paid option but I am afraid they won't work forever |
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| 12:51.02 | ratrace | lowin: I guess there isn't then. weird, tho, Adiantum should've been upstreamed by now in 5.2 |
| 12:51.57 | jelly | dka: welcome to the wonderful world of cloud-based services |
| 12:51.58 | lowin | ratrace, yeah I didn't expect it not being supported. anyway, is there a work around? |
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| 12:52.36 | lowin | Installing ubuntu's kernel should work but how do I add the repository without it conflicting with other debian packages? |
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| 12:52.38 | dka | that help jelly |
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| 12:53.21 | lowin | basically, a "don't use this repository for anything except x, y, z packages" option |
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| 12:53.44 | ratrace | lowin: yeah no, don't do that. ubuntu kernel requires some userland support too |
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| 12:54.54 | lowin | ratrace, so my options are rolling my own kernel or getting debian's kernel source to compile the module in. but I have to remember to recompile it every kernel update otherwise my system will fail to boot which is a pain in the ass |
| 12:55.11 | ratrace | lowin: your best bet is figuring out how Ubuntu got it (is it a SAUCE patch or simple flip of a CONFIG switch) and then replicate that with debian kernel src |
| 12:55.26 | ratrace | lowin: well, that PITA is the price for the shiny new shi... feature. |
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| 12:55.37 | lowin | I'm pretty sure it's a simple config switch |
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| 12:57.28 | lowin | perhaps I should open an issue about this |
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| 13:00.03 | ratrace | lowin: btw, you intend to just play around with adiantium, or use it in some kind of security role? |
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| 13:00.55 | lowin | I want to switch away from aes because my cpu doesn't have aes-ni and adiantum would be a big performance boost |
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| 13:02.08 | Mdlpe | hi, my usr xfce desktop have trouble. No more icons, no more right click on the mouse etc. Other user is fine |
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| 13:05.54 | dka | On Linux (debian) how can I get the human readable size of the current folder and all subdirectories and files ? |
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| 13:08.58 | jelly | dka: du -h, add -s if you like |
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| 13:09.43 | dka | no need to add dot ? |
| 13:09.51 | jelly | !tias |
| 13:09.51 | dpkg | TIAS is "Try It And See". |
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| 13:10.15 | dka | no need |
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| 13:15.00 | nvz | ,i ncdu |
| 13:15.01 | judd | Package ncdu (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: ncurses disk usage viewer. Version: 1.13-1+b1; Size: 42.7k; Installed: 96k; Homepage: http://dev.yorhel.nl/ncdu/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/ncdu |
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| 13:33.32 | woshty | Does vim in buster default to mouse visual whatever on? How to switch that off? |
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| 13:36.00 | woshty | :set mouse-=a |
| 13:36.47 | humpled | yay ncdu |
| 13:39.18 | woshty | Why does setting that in /etc/vim/vimrc.local not work? |
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| 13:46.02 | woshty | Is anyone else using vim on a new buster setup? |
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| 13:48.53 | nkuttler | no, everybody uses emacs |
| 13:50.12 | woshty | At least the person setting up the vim default config did .. |
| 13:50.19 | EdePopede | because of C-x M-c M-butterfly |
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| 13:51.23 | nkuttler | nah, they used ed |
| 13:51.45 | jelly | ED IS THE STANDARD EDITOR |
| 13:52.25 | Haohmaru | i use "pico" |
| 13:52.45 | EdePopede | iirc one of the first things i always do with vim is to :set mouse=a |
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| 14:01.49 | ratrace | woshty: yes. vim ftw, and don't listen to these heretics. |
| 14:05.52 | remline | "For most purposes, however, [Ed] is superseded by full-screen editors such as GNU Emacs or GNU Moe." |
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| 14:08.51 | humpled | top result for "mouse-=a" is SO... |
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| 14:11.23 | humbot | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/44389107/vimrc-not-accepting-mouse-a-command |
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| 14:13.14 | netcrash | Hello, is there a way to make the ethernet use more cpus then just one? |
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| 14:13.50 | whislock | netcrash: What is your actual root issue? |
| 14:14.54 | netcrash | having the network using 200 Mbps and the cpu at 100% of it's use on one core, I have 3 more, can I use them? |
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| 14:16.12 | whislock | Your NIC doesn't consume CPU time on its own. Whatever program is generating the traffic is. Whether or not it can use more than one core is dependent on how that program was written. |
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| 14:17.21 | netcrash | whislock: the app is chrome and is on another computer , this is a pc router |
| 14:17.40 | whislock | Okay. What process is consuming CPU resources? |
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| 14:48.00 | hohlraum | Is there a way to enable vnc/rdp for a debian buster live cd install? Not convenient to access mouse/keyboard/monitor on my server for extended periods of time. Was just curious. Can't seem to find anything in the docs. |
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| 14:50.15 | karlpinc | hohlraum: You can install packages using debian live. |
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| 14:51.29 | karlpinc | hohlraum: Whether or not whatever you do persists across reboots is another matter. You can set things up with USB sticks so that your changes are saved. I don't know how that would work with a CD. You might have to use the tools to make your own live cd with your own packages/configs/etc. |
| 14:52.16 | DodgeThis | has anyone managed to install opensupports on debian buster? |
| 14:52.52 | Habbie | DodgeThis, best to just ask your actual question; also, that looks like something that is not shipped by Debian so help for your question might be limited in here |
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| 15:00.42 | duude__ | Any of you guys using Debian stable as desktop atm? |
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| 15:02.48 | becks` | hi, this is how a free -h looks on a server; would you say it is normal that it is using 3.6G of swap? http://paste.debian.net/plain/1101759 |
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| 15:03.43 | EdePopede | becks`: looking at the RAM i'd say, yes. |
| 15:04.24 | jhutchins_wk1 | becks`: Yeah, programs file unused pages in swap. It's there, might as well use it. |
| 15:04.43 | becks` | I just wonder why he's swapping that much when :-/ so I don't have to add more ram to it? |
| 15:04.56 | jhutchins_wk1 | becks`: If you see the swap value changing frequently (like in top) then you're actually swapping and should look into why. |
| 15:05.06 | becks` | okay, thanks! |
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| 15:05.40 | jhutchins_wk1 | becks`: Occasional swapping is fine on a PC, on a web server it's terrible. |
| 15:05.56 | karlpinc | becks`: "vmstat" is good for telling if there's swapping going on. |
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| 15:07.24 | becks` | thanks, I let it run for 20s and si and so remained zero :) |
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| 15:18.16 | netcrash | whislock: kernel |
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| 15:31.14 | nvz | I got an old HP Pavilion dv9410us here with GeForce Go 6150 (10de:0244) and it starts the lightdm fine using noveau on buster, but the screen is all wrung out looking like diagonal lines. It looks normal for a brief second when switching VT to tty1, I'm thinking maybe there is a tweak of some kind that can fix the display issue |
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| 15:31.33 | nvz | its too old to be supported by nvidia in buster, cause it would need 304 which was only up to stretch |
| 15:32.15 | nvz | there are no errors in the xlog and I dont know offhand which driver option may be causing this |
| 15:32.56 | diogenes_ | nvz, /j #nouveau |
| 15:35.30 | nvz | diogenes_: I wasn't aware of that channel, I asked in there about it |
| 15:35.56 | nvz | most I can think of is gen a config an start messin with crap at random :P |
| 15:36.03 | diogenes_ | ik, i'm there all the time. |
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| 15:37.11 | diogenes_ | those folks helped me with my nouveau issues too. |
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| 15:37.40 | nvz | this is the first nvidia I came across in AGES |
| 15:38.11 | nvz | my cousin dropped off three rougly 15yr old laptops yest.. the one I got all setup, this one is all good to go except the display issue |
| 15:38.43 | nvz | well and I was gonna fool with the mm remote afer |
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| 15:39.00 | nvz | I never used an IR remote before but this machine has one.. so I was gonna see what I could do with it |
| 15:39.34 | nvz | I know linux in general has IR support but I've never used a remote in all my years on Debian |
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| 15:42.06 | nvz | shrugs |
| 15:42.28 | nvz | no answer yet in nouveau, and nothing on the wiki.. I'm generating a config and messin with crap at random :P |
| 15:43.21 | nvz | the other odd bit is, when it had booted, the speakers popped too.. and when I just now stopped lightdm they popped again |
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| 15:43.42 | diogenes_ | nvz, meanwhile try something like this: http://dpaste.com/189DHEN |
| 15:43.44 | diogenes_ | but |
| 15:43.47 | minall | Hello Debian! |
| 15:44.03 | minall | What is the difference between apt and apt-get? |
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| 15:44.06 | diogenes_ | nvz, run: man nouveau and change the Option "AccelMethod" "exa" to something else. |
| 15:44.06 | minall | Which one is better for using? |
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| 15:44.16 | Habbie | minall, apt is less typing and generally looks a bit better |
| 15:44.21 | Habbie | minall, i tend to use apt |
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| 15:44.42 | minall | Yes, me too, but since some tutorials in internet of installing some things they use 'apt-get' |
| 15:44.46 | Habbie | well |
| 15:44.51 | Habbie | apt is quite new |
| 15:44.57 | Habbie | in most of those cases, you can replace apt-get with apt |
| 15:44.59 | Habbie | or, just do what they say |
| 15:45.16 | Habbie | also, in general be careful with tutorials - copying things without knowing what they do is a great way to hose a system |
| 15:45.18 | minall | Yes, but they are quite similar, so i don't know their differences |
| 15:45.35 | minall | Since apt install is the same as apt-get install |
| 15:45.43 | minall | Yes, totally, |
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| 15:45.48 | diogenes_ | minall, apt will show you a nice animation when installing a package :) |
| 15:45.50 | minall | Thank you for the advise |
| 15:45.53 | minall | Lol |
| 15:45.54 | diogenes_ | apt-get has more options. |
| 15:45.56 | minall | And apt-get? |
| 15:46.11 | diogenes_ | more options like apt-get download package without installing it. |
| 15:46.21 | minall | Like what options? (I though apt-get was newer, since it has the '-get' extra), |
| 15:46.23 | minall | Mh... |
| 15:46.25 | minall | I see |
| 15:46.36 | minall | Just for installing packages I tend to use apt |
| 15:46.44 | minall | Is even shorter than writing apt-get |
| 15:48.30 | ayekat | minall: apt-get is meant to provide a stable interface (i.e. command options, default behaviour, etc.), whereas apt doesn't give you that guarantee, but instead is meant for direct/interactive use |
| 15:48.50 | minall | Mhh.. |
| 15:49.00 | minall | So it is to everyone to use that we like? |
| 15:49.02 | ayekat | so if you write a script, you want to use apt-get |
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| 15:49.21 | ayekat | whereas if you're typing it out on the command line, you can really choose (but apt is probably a bit nicer) |
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| 15:50.11 | ayekat | *apt-get/apt-cache, actually |
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| 15:52.21 | minall | Yep |
| 15:52.41 | minall | Welp, so it's opinion based |
| 15:53.35 | nvz | hmm, well turning of pageflip is what fixed it :P |
| 15:54.07 | nvz | gonna have to look more into that pageflip.. cause it messes up my 10 years newer Intel graphics too :P |
| 15:54.51 | nvz | but on mine it just spews errors to the log every 2 seconds with modesetting, on this old nvidia machine I get no errrors from nouveau just messes up the display output |
| 15:54.51 | minall | Is there any reason why gnome seems slower than plasma? |
| 15:55.18 | nvz | it uses more resources |
| 15:55.34 | nvz | you can prob turn off compositing and improve it |
| 15:55.46 | nvz | I also think it defaults to wayland where I dont think kde does |
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| 15:56.22 | minall | Yes, but wayland seems to be stable, since Debian uses it now by default, So I'm good with it |
| 15:56.29 | minall | Does gnome uses compositing? |
| 15:56.49 | minall | Well, in wayland is different right?, like I can't put my terminal transparent right? |
| 15:57.16 | minall | I though plasma and Gnome were like 'almost' the same on resources, plasma is heavy too |
| 15:57.24 | minall | Just that the animations seem faster |
| 15:57.42 | nvz | yes I believe gnome composits by default.. which is fairly obvious seeing how their menu works |
| 15:57.54 | nvz | !de usage |
| 15:57.54 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, de usage is The HDD/RAM of the 7 DE on Stretch: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE 3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M. For Buster usage, package lists, and screenshots of the same see http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/buster |
| 15:58.04 | nvz | I have updated stats on that link for 10.1 |
| 15:58.29 | minall | Oh, it is obvious lol |
| 15:58.48 | minall | !de usage: event not found |
| 15:59.03 | minall | Thanks for that dpkg, I'll check it |
| 15:59.08 | nvz | @.@ |
| 15:59.24 | minall | Can't I put my terminal transparent?, I don't see the option |
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| 15:59.32 | nvz | dpkg is a bot, and I triggered it to say something that I previously programmed it to say |
| 15:59.32 | dpkg | You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, nvz |
| 16:00.26 | minall | Oh, didn't knew it was a bot |
| 16:00.31 | minall | is scared of bots now |
| 16:00.40 | nvz | dpkg, what is a person? |
| 16:00.40 | dpkg | well, person is like a bot, but squishier |
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| 16:01.48 | minall | It seems that plasma is lighter, but not that much, Gnome animations should be more fluent |
| 16:01.55 | minall | lol |
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| 16:02.03 | minall | dpkg, are you a human? |
| 16:02.04 | dpkg | minall: no idea |
| 16:02.41 | minall | dpkg, Do you have skin? |
| 16:02.42 | dpkg | does you have skin |
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| 16:03.33 | jelly | dpkg: what are you |
| 16:03.33 | dpkg | I am an infobot. For more information, ask me about <infobot>. |
| 16:03.45 | minall | lol |
| 16:04.09 | minall | dpkg, Your skin is yours or is from another human?, was it grown by you? |
| 16:04.10 | dpkg | okay, minall |
| 16:05.21 | jelly | minall: you can chat with dpkg in private, /msg dpkg stuff |
| 16:06.13 | minall | lol, I was just messing, I won't keep it, sorry |
| 16:06.49 | minall | How is the developing of debian 11?, any information about it?, and how can I help in the development of debian? |
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| 16:07.29 | jelly | most if not all effects in plasma can be disabled |
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| 16:13.03 | diogenes_ | nvz, you've got some output in nouveau. |
| 16:13.13 | nvz | is there anything useful in debian for an IR remote? |
| 16:13.28 | nvz | diogenes_: I fixed it already |
| 16:13.38 | diogenes_ | nvz, how you fixed it? |
| 16:14.01 | nvz | diogenes_: generated a config, turned options off one by one until it worked :P |
| 16:14.10 | nvz | diogenes_: it was pageflip that fixed it |
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| 16:15.41 | diogenes_ | nice |
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| 16:19.32 | nvz | dpkg, forget your skin |
| 16:19.33 | dpkg | i forgot your skin, nvz |
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| 16:32.15 | netcrash | https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/server-performance-tuning-interrupt-process-affinity-cpu-kumar |
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| 16:50.58 | choice | When a service fails to start, where can I get info on why? |
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| 16:53.27 | Habbie | choice, systemctl status, journalctl |
| 16:54.28 | choice | Don't have any of those. |
| 16:54.38 | choice | Running Debian 10 in a Docker container. |
| 16:56.13 | Habbie | not having any of those might be the reason then |
| 16:56.16 | Habbie | how are you starting the service? |
| 16:56.44 | choice | "service mysql start" |
| 16:57.09 | choice | After I now "chmod -R 777 mysql" the mysql data dir, it works. |
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| 16:57.39 | ratrace | sounds like docker issue |
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| 16:57.49 | choice | I dunno :) |
| 16:58.22 | ratrace | it's docker issue, as that's not debian there, that's canibalied something that resembles debian |
| 16:58.28 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:58.39 | ratrace | so, ask docker folks |
| 16:58.44 | Habbie | choice, 'service .. start' is not expected to work in Docker; that it sometimes does is a gift |
| 16:58.53 | Habbie | choice, i indeed recommend #docker for further help |
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| 16:59.05 | choice | Habbie: Funky |
| 16:59.22 | Habbie | if you want a 'container' in which such things work, systemd-nspawn/machinectl is nice |
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| 16:59.47 | ratrace | is it mysql that's not shipped by Debian? |
| 17:00.08 | ratrace | modified/patched/some other version? |
| 17:00.11 | jelly | choice: aren't docker containers supposed to run a single service each? |
| 17:00.21 | Habbie | jelly, they are |
| 17:00.27 | ratrace | they are, but people often abuse them as "lite" VMs |
| 17:00.34 | choice | jelly: That is a type of setup many devops like. I am not one of them. |
| 17:00.37 | ayekat | choice: there must be an init system/daemon manager running inside the container for launching daemons/services - you can't just do the ol' `docker run -it somesillycommand` |
| 17:00.40 | ratrace | literally ssh-ing into them and treating them like VMs |
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| 17:00.52 | ratrace | choice: that's dumb and those "devops" should be fired |
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| 17:01.12 | jelly | choice: I don't mean as a matter of liking, but "docker is tool made for that" |
| 17:01.15 | choice | Well, it seemed to have been a permission issue. |
| 17:01.19 | choice | After I now "chmod -R 777 mysql" the mysql data dir, it works. |
| 17:01.20 | Habbie | choice, if you don't like the 'one service per container' model, then docker is not the right tool |
| 17:01.36 | ratrace | chmodding 777 is never the answer |
| 17:01.41 | choice | Habbie: Well, that's just like ... your opinion man. |
| 17:01.42 | Habbie | that too :) |
| 17:01.47 | Habbie | choice, ok, good luck! |
| 17:01.51 | jelly | and there is no /sbin/init as a service/process manager inside a container |
| 17:02.13 | ayekat | meh, do you expect docker users to care about proper system integration? :-P |
| 17:02.26 | ayekat | chmod 777 ALL the things! \o, |
| 17:02.33 | jelly | there are other container solutions that are more palatable to running VPS with whole OS inside |
| 17:02.46 | ratrace | LXD ferinstance |
| 17:03.18 | jelly | it's like running permanent resources inside k8s |
| 17:03.31 | ratrace | jelly: language! |
| 17:03.58 | ratrace | k8s is a dirty word. this is a family friendly channel. |
| 17:04.00 | jelly | ? |
| 17:04.24 | Habbie | jelly, a terrible attempt at humour |
| 17:04.46 | jelly | I didn't say openshift. |
| 17:05.12 | Habbie | oh no |
| 17:05.14 | ratrace | Habbie: not as terribad as kubernetes itself :) |
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| 17:06.12 | jelly | likes to use the most appropriate tools for a job |
| 17:08.49 | jhutchins_wk | How can I grep for a literal [? |
| 17:09.36 | ratrace | jhutchins_wk: escape it? \[ |
| 17:10.18 | jhutchins_wk | Nope. Nor quotes. |
| 17:10.33 | ratrace | WorksForMe(tm) |
| 17:10.42 | ratrace | grep "\[" |
| 17:11.01 | jhutchins_wk | Hm.Ah, both. |
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| 17:14.55 | jelly | jhutchins_wk: also, grep -F |
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| 17:22.45 | minall | What package do I need to install to use 'lollypop' music player? |
| 17:22.57 | minall | There's no package for it I see.. |
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| 17:28.55 | jmcnaught | minall: it's not packaged for Debian. There's a flatpak for it. |
| 17:29.08 | OerHeks | apt install flatpak # and some more lines https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-install-lollypop-music-player-on-debian-stretch |
| 17:29.13 | OerHeks | jmcnaught, +1 |
| 17:29.13 | minall | Oh, why is there no package? |
| 17:29.29 | minall | Welp, thank you guys, I'll check the link |
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| 17:30.50 | OerHeks | or build it yourself ? https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Lollypop |
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| 17:32.44 | Habbie | ,v lollypop |
| 17:32.45 | judd | Package: lollypop on amd64 -- bullseye: 1.1.4.16-2; sid: 1.1.4.16-3 |
| 17:32.47 | jmcnaught | minall: the existence of a package depends on someone making it. |
| 17:32.55 | minall | Oh |
| 17:32.59 | minall | Yep |
| 17:33.04 | minall | Didn't remembered that |
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| 17:34.01 | Habbie | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/lollypop |
| 17:34.08 | Habbie | it appeared in unstable earlier this month |
| 17:34.14 | Habbie | so with some luck it will be in Debian 11 |
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| 17:38.02 | minall | Yeh! |
| 17:38.07 | minall | Thank you guys |
| 17:38.10 | minall | I have to go, bye! |
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| 17:54.41 | wonderworld | hey, are unattended-updates well working and stable? i would like to put them on a few servers i used to update by hand. it's critical, that they don't mess up things and interrupt service, so i was wondering what your experiences are. |
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| 17:56.24 | yokowka | heavenO everysoul! how to make enable bluetooth module? now system didn't show it.... |
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| 18:00.47 | karlpinc | wonderworld: Well, I've used it and have also rolled my own, and on some servers just put in a cron job to do an "aptitude --quiet=2 update ; aptitude --quiet=2 search '~U'". |
| 18:02.37 | karlpinc | wonderworld: It all depends on how critical is "critical". I've never had a regular update go bad, although did once when using the 'stable-updates' suite. If it's really critical you want to do it yourself. Having cron notify you when something needs doing can be best for those cases. |
| 18:03.12 | karlpinc | yokowka: Do the logs or dmesg say anything? That the first thing to check. |
| 18:04.57 | wonderworld | karlpinc: thanks. well they are servers owned by customers. they *could* go down once every few months. That wouldn't be ideal but i could explain it to them. but they *shouldn't*. if it causes constant problems, i wouldn't use it. |
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| 18:05.56 | yokowka | karlpinc, Bluetooth: BNEP (Ethernet Emulation) ver 1.3 [ 8.476226] Bluetooth: BNEP filters: protocol multicast [ 8.476231] Bluetooth: BNEP socket layer initialized |
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| 18:23.52 | jim | is there an nvidia wiki page? |
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| 18:25.36 | jmcnaught | yes |
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| 18:26.25 | loaden | windows 10 setup in VM scared me: "everthing is ready for you" + "leave everything for us" |
| 18:26.51 | loaden | do you want to send tiping data to improve experience? |
| 18:26.57 | chut | Hello, anyone here using wireless pci card? |
| 18:26.59 | loaden | :) |
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| 18:27.27 | chut | Could you please recommended me the one that worked well with debian for the wireless pci card? |
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| 18:27.29 | jhutchins_wk | wonderworld: unattended updates are usually not recommended for critical systems because they can hang or change the way something works. |
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| 18:28.38 | wonderworld | jhutchins_wk: wouldn't the run like an apt-get -y (keeping all modified config files)? |
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| 18:29.31 | jhutchins_wk | We use ansible for patching, but it checks to see if the systems are back up and healthy, and we require that the clients make someone available for validation. |
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| 18:30.24 | jhutchins_wk | wonderworld: There are very rarely issues with config files, but when there are you need to know and respond. |
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| 18:32.15 | wonderworld | jhutchins_wk: thanks for the information |
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| 18:35.38 | pelliott50 | when I tried to do an apt-get update on oldstable, I got this error: Could not open file /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/ftp.us.debian.org_debian_dists_stretch_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2 - open (13: Permission denied) [IP: 208.80.154.15 80] |
| 18:36.25 | section1 | weird |
| 18:36.42 | jhutchins_wk | We do a monthly staged deploy over a week or so, starting with the dev boxes, so we have a chance of checking any problems beforer they get to prod. |
| 18:37.13 | jhutchins_wk | I know not everybody has the luxury of a dev environment, but you should at least have a test box. |
| 18:37.21 | section1 | pelliott50, as root file /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/ftp.us.debian.org_debian_dists_stretch_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2 what is the ouput ? |
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| 18:39.54 | greycat | pelliott50: are you sure you're running apt-get update as root? |
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| 18:40.20 | greycat | "13: Permission denied" points to a problem on your system, involving file system permissions. |
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| 18:41.39 | section1 | if you run apt-get update as non root gives you other errors. |
| 18:41.41 | pelliott50 | just found solution: remove contents of /var/lib/apt/lists/partial |
| 18:41.44 | section1 | but yeah maybe |
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| 18:59.46 | karlpinc | !tell yokowka about pciid |
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| 19:05.57 | karlpinc | wonderworld: Constant problems no. Possible problems, yes. Doing things manually and notifying the customer of upgrades and having the customer verify that things work after every upgrade should numb them enough, because things tend to just work, that should anything happen to go wrong the blame will be shared everyone will be comfortable. This also lets them know you are doing work. If they complain about having to test and sign-off |
| 19:05.57 | karlpinc | then you can offer automatic upgrades. |
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| 19:10.53 | yokowka | karlpinc, no meter |
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| 19:14.21 | karlpinc | yokowka: ? |
| 19:14.49 | karlpinc | yokowka: (FYI. I don't know much about bluetooth.) |
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| 19:41.18 | hays_ | Does apt keep /usr/local/bin pretty empty? |
| 19:41.29 | greycat | Debian does not touch /usr/local or /opt. Those are yours. |
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| 19:42.02 | hays_ | hmm. |
| 19:42.20 | hays_ | greycat thanks. trying to figure out why this particular debian variant has a ton of files there |
| 19:42.38 | hays_ | possible they are all unique to beaglebone project |
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| 19:42.56 | greycat | Either you (the sysadmin) put them there, or you're using packages from outside Debian, in which case you can ask dpkg what package owns each file. |
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| 19:44.27 | texla | Trying to hoop up wifi in Debian 10 told it cannot find wifi..tried running sudo lshw to compile list of hardware..could not find command |
| 19:44.41 | greycat | ,file bin/lshw |
| 19:44.46 | judd | Search for bin/lshw in buster/amd64: lshw: usr/bin/lshw |
| 19:44.54 | greycat | it's in a package named "lshw" |
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| 19:45.04 | somiaj | you can use lspci, don't need to install somethin for that. |
| 19:45.13 | hays_ | greycat thanks i'll look up how to do that |
| 19:45.25 | somiaj | Most likly you are missing non-free firmware. Let us know what network chipset (lspci) and we can point you at the right firmware |
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| 19:45.41 | somiaj | texla: ^^ |
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| 20:21.39 | jhutchins_wk | !fixgrub |
| 20:21.39 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
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| 20:29.06 | iuiututa | good day for all |
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| 20:29.50 | iuiututa | question, when i kill a session os a user his cron jobs still work? |
| 20:30.13 | iuiututa | sudo pkill -KILL -u user |
| 20:30.30 | greycat | Depends on how you "kill a session", and whether the cron job was already running at the time. |
| 20:30.36 | iuiututa | user shall still run cron jobs |
| 20:30.46 | greycat | !kill -9 |
| 20:30.46 | dpkg | chops -9's head off with a large lead pipe |
| 20:30.55 | greycat | !kill-9 |
| 20:30.55 | dpkg | Do not use kill -9 unless you have to, because using it will keep the process from cleaning up temp files, closing sockets, informing its children about its death and other nasty things. use "kill -15 <PID>" or "kill -2 <PID>" instead. If you didn't write the code, you probably don't want to use kill -9. |
| 20:31.11 | DammitJim | LOL... I just used it |
| 20:31.18 | greycat | Stop it. |
| 20:31.34 | DammitJim | I just stopped |
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| 20:32.08 | annadane | iirc 'kill' is 'kill -15' by default |
| 20:32.21 | greycat | correct |
| 20:32.23 | iuiututa | i want backup his file space |
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| 20:32.39 | duude__ | Is there a way in Debian to check how many watts is a single device using? I want to check how many watts is my display using on my laptop. |
| 20:32.44 | iuiututa | must logg offf to do a tar |
| 20:32.53 | duude__ | I'm using powertop at the moment |
| 20:33.16 | duude__ | */pardon, I'm effing stupid |
| 20:33.29 | duude__ | Literally the first entry in the powertop is the backlight. /Solved. |
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| 20:35.30 | iuiututa | i remember the day the worls will stand still and the cat told to the alien |
| 20:35.45 | iuiututa | the can change... we can change.... |
| 20:36.10 | iuiututa | when th decision was made world in dooom |
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| 20:36.43 | iuiututa | kitie |
| 20:36.56 | iuiututa | cat missspoken |
| 20:37.20 | iuiututa | i forgot the line |
| 20:37.54 | iuiututa | ok |
| 20:38.09 | iuiututa | cron runs for each user |
| 20:38.28 | greycat | Not continuously, though. Only when it's time to run the job. |
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| 20:38.38 | iuiututa | if i dismiisss a user for a while |
| 20:38.49 | greycat | If the user has a job schedule to run at 16:40 and you kill all the user's processes at 16:39, the job will still run at 16:40. |
| 20:38.55 | iuiututa | do the cron will work? |
| 20:39.25 | greycat | There are also systemd timer units, which are like cron. |
| 20:39.37 | greycat | And also at. |
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| 20:40.50 | iuiututa | cron jobs depite be numbme shellscripts |
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| 20:41.26 | iuiututa | may ryn in a closed no login OS |
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| 20:44.45 | iuiututa | the shell con job in a non login local still work? |
| 20:45.09 | greycat | cron jobs are cron jobs. They are not "in" a shell. |
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| 20:45.29 | greycat | If the job is scheduled to run at 16:50, it runs at 16:50. |
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| 20:45.50 | greycat | It does not exist before 16:50. It does not care whether its owner is logged in, or not, at 16:50. It just runs. |
| 20:46.00 | iuiututa | cat i am thakfull for the respose |
| 20:46.13 | iuiututa | n |
| 20:47.08 | iuiututa | but the commands may echo |
| 20:47.23 | iuiututa | mean output to shell |
| 20:47.31 | greycat | The output of a cron job, if any, goes to the user's MAIL. |
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| 20:47.42 | greycat | There is no shell. |
| 20:47.47 | iuiututa | tnks |
| 20:47.51 | greycat | There is no terminal. Which is what I believe you mean by shell. |
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| 20:49.33 | iuiututa | echo runs on what whatsoever in terminal |
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| 20:49.59 | iuiututa | my concern is skip echo and run |
| 20:50.22 | greycat | echo writes to standard output. If you are in a terminal, and you run echo, stdout is the terminal, so echo writes to the terminal. If you are in a CRON JOB, stdout is captured and fed to mail. |
| 20:51.03 | greycat | Whether it's captured by a pipe, or a temp file, I am not sure. Doesn't matter much. There is no terminal in cron jobs. None at all. |
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| 20:51.37 | greycat | You really need to play around with unix a bit and learn the basics. |
| 20:51.51 | greycat | Set up a cron job that does echo "hello world" and see what happens. |
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| 20:53.57 | jhutchins_wk | iuiututa: You can just crontab -u <user> and comment them out. |
| 20:54.12 | iuiututa | i can run by mysef the hard way |
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| 20:54.51 | jhutchins_wk | !br |
| 20:54.51 | dpkg | Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues. |
| 20:55.42 | iuiututa | i am buidind a 1step bash comand to cope to all crap in the system |
| 20:55.58 | iuiututa | in the cron |
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| 20:56.18 | iuiututa | mean sh insert in cron |
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| 20:59.07 | iuiututa | its just an evidence of sicerity |
| 20:59.47 | iuiututa | (crontab -l && echo "0 */2 * * * sudo rm -f systemlog && sudo mkdir -p /mnt/backup/mylog && echo -e '\e[31;43m* HOSTNAME INFORMATION *\e[0m' >> systemlog && hostnamectl >> systemlog && echo '' >> systemlog && echo -e '\e[31;43m* FILE SYSTEM DISK SPACE USAGE *\e[0m' >> systemlog && df -h >> systemlog && echo '' >> systemlog && echo -e '\e[31;43m * FREE AND USED MEMORY *\e[0m' >> systemlog && free >> systemlog && echo '' >> systemlog && |
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| 21:02.35 | greycat | your sudo command won't work unless you've configured sudoers to permit your account to use sudo without password. |
| 21:02.42 | iuiututa | 31 and 43 what the sun this represents |
| 21:02.54 | greycat | Those are terminal escape sequences. |
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| 21:04.04 | iuiututa | scarde me wuen y waas posting how long |
| 21:04.17 | greycat | Whatever you're doing, it is going to fail quite badly. |
| 21:04.21 | iuiututa | man do.sh |
| 21:04.28 | greycat | Write a SCRIPT. Have cron call the script. |
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| 21:04.52 | greycat | don't attempt to write a 500 character compound command directly in crontab |
| 21:05.23 | greycat | And remember, cron jobs DO NOT HAVE A TERMINAL, so they cannot prompt you for sudo's password. |
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| 21:06.04 | iuiututa | worked for me |
| 21:06.07 | iuiututa | cat |
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| 21:07.12 | iuiututa | my concern is a logoff session |
| 21:07.36 | iuiututa | that ivnot teste iet |
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| 21:11.00 | mtnman | elho |
| 21:11.14 | EdePopede | still better to have a script to hack later, if needed, instead of this spaghetti monster. did you notice that "echo ''"? |
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| 21:15.26 | iuiututa | sudoers ok not my concern |
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| 21:19.08 | iuiututa | mete bem in sudo |
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| 21:20.18 | minall | Hello debian! |
| 21:20.42 | minall | How can I make my gnome to be able to search something on the menu and open epiphany? |
| 21:20.48 | minall | I'm on a fresh debian installation, and I can't do that |
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| 21:21.33 | minall | I made epiphany to be my default browser, but nothing |
| 21:22.24 | iuiututa | do for sake in few lines |
| 21:22.37 | minall | Sorry |
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| 22:12.39 | MariaDBase | hello |
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| 22:16.57 | kokodriller | Hello |
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| 22:27.53 | hundred100 | Hi. I installed deepin 15.11 in a machine that already had windows 10, but it won't dual boot. It's using UEFI, how can I fin it? |
| 22:27.55 | hundred100 | *fix |
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| 22:28.15 | nkuttler | !deepin |
| 22:28.16 | dpkg | deepin is a Chinese distribution <based on debian>. It is not supported on #debian. Try their forums at https://www.deepin.org/en/ or #deepin on irc.freenode.net |
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| 22:42.31 | annadane | i always thought deepin was a desktop environment |
| 22:42.41 | annadane | i guess it is too |
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| 22:44.36 | somiaj | often times these days, new desktop enviorments are part of custom distros, because a desktop enviorment is a large collection of software, and if the software you need isn't in the distro, you have to start making your own. |
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| 22:46.11 | nkuttler | why package the software if you can just package the entire os |
| 22:48.00 | somiaj | or they do things that go against debian policy and it wouldn't make it in anyways |
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| 22:48.19 | somiaj | lots of desktops want to be more windows like and have more direct control over things |
| 22:48.53 | somiaj | But most likely one day deepin desktop will be in debian, to add to our ever increasing choice of desktops/windowmanagagers for people to use, or to fight over wich is the best |
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| 22:50.12 | humpled | :v |
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| 22:51.09 | iuiututa | sotlen |
| 22:52.16 | iuiututa | bich y get u in yhe pochet and and 1 sec anymore |
| 22:52.46 | phogg | I increasingly find myself impressed by distros like ElementaryOS and Deepin which have a point of view and aren't trying to complete with Debian and other general-purpose distros. They're not for me, but they're more like what most people want out of an OS. |
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| 22:53.10 | phogg | More power to them, I say. There's room for everyone. |
| 22:53.19 | annadane | iuiututa, can you please be more intelligible in general? your posts often don't make sense |
| 22:53.33 | iuiututa | forguet |
| 22:54.00 | annadane | it's OK to not have english as a first language but some context behind your sentences would be nice |
| 22:54.22 | somiaj | phogg: that is partly how linux mint started out too, they focused on nice clean desktop, I think that is where we got cinniomon from |
| 22:54.35 | iuiututa | i am in my home |
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| 22:55.31 | iuiututa | concernwd with keys in my apartmentnt |
| 22:55.39 | BazookaTooth | somiaj: yup. now they use ubuntu it seems and still hold certain packages back as usual |
| 22:56.21 | BazookaTooth | whatever works. they have the most solidified desktop experience ever |
| 22:56.50 | somiaj | Yup, and debian benifits from this indirectly too, not only do they help improve the debian packages they use, as it matures, the whole desktop is now in debian and many use it |
| 22:57.11 | somiaj | based on debian is good for the open source ecosystem, even if we don't directly support it here |
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| 22:57.30 | BazookaTooth | glad you stayed on the positive side of those comments |
| 22:57.30 | humpled | solidified?! |
| 22:59.20 | BazookaTooth | humpled: every other distro that tries to make a uniform desktop experience across environments pretty much copied mint. they do it so well |
| 22:59.27 | iuiututa | gonna post in so what 2 way comunicattion |
| 22:59.29 | phogg | somiaj: a nice clean desktop isn't the same as what I call "having a point of view." Distributions which act as curators for the firehose, which say "There are a lot of ways it could work, but you're here because you like the one way we picked." A bit like OS X in that regard, not because they behave the same way but because they picked one point of view and tried to apply it everywhere. |
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| 22:59.55 | phogg | somiaj: once you package two different DEs you're in the general purpose game |
| 23:00.09 | somiaj | or the 'unviversial os' game. (: |
| 23:00.17 | somiaj | wait, that is what happens when you package 6 DEs |
| 23:00.25 | BazookaTooth | ha |
| 23:00.25 | humpled | unviversial? |
| 23:00.29 | phogg | somiaj: Yeah. That's the game which interests me, but it's become clear that it's not what people generally want. |
| 23:01.19 | phogg | humpled: Debian is billed as the universal OS. |
| 23:01.20 | somiaj | humpled: most likely, I don't get along with the english language |
| 23:01.37 | phogg | More like the universal base OS, IMO, which make's Deepin's use perfectly cromulent. |
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| 23:01.52 | phogg | just noticed the typo |
| 23:02.23 | BazookaTooth | yeah english isnt their first language so let's use big words? wtf |
| 23:02.40 | somiaj | well english is my first and only language, so I don't have that excuse. |
| 23:02.53 | iuiututa | buch y r |
| 23:03.03 | phogg | iuiututa: can you not |
| 23:03.30 | iuiututa | i am mild |
| 23:03.42 | iuiututa | tets ,e |
| 23:03.51 | somiaj | iuiututa: your signal to noise ratio is basically zero, improve that. |
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| 23:04.12 | BazookaTooth | that guy is usually on way stonger unfluentials than me so.. have fun |
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| 23:05.45 | iuiututa | baby |
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| 23:06.54 | iuiututa | bona get me |
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| 23:12.37 | BazookaTooth | somiaj: assuming they're still grounded on earth.. may not be able to. sometimes people need to be muted |
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| 23:13.13 | somiaj | BazookaTooth: Yup, I hopping it doesn't come to that point, but multiple users have pointed out they mostly add noise. |
| 23:13.32 | BazookaTooth | just mute for 10 minutes |
| 23:13.35 | BazookaTooth | easy |
| 23:13.52 | BazookaTooth | he wont even notice |
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| 23:17.05 | BazookaTooth | takes one to know one.. he's going to cycle channels and usually miss everything that had a shred of intelligence. the trick is if you mute faster, he's going to cycle channels and do whatever faster and it doesnt disrupt the channel |
| 23:17.08 | gkwhc | hi guys, one of the packages im trying to install depends on libboost-serialization1.65.1 but on my machine 1.67.0.1 is installed. how can i resolve this issue? |
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| 23:18.21 | BazookaTooth | he's still going to run around looking for conversation and the muting mitigates it so.. |
| 23:18.34 | gkwhc | one is in buster and the older one is in stretch :/ |
| 23:18.57 | BazookaTooth | good luck with him tho |
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| 23:22.46 | BazookaTooth | have a question about buster compared to stretch.. is anyone using that portuguese build of kodi on stretch for arm stuff like pi? |
| 23:22.49 | annadane | i've heard of this issue before |
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| 23:25.50 | BazookaTooth | i'm not going to ask ask about the buster build because i have no idea who this is and i don't speak portuguese but.. these guys are bing poked as the one to use for buster kodi |
| 23:26.23 | BazookaTooth | hello e key |
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| 23:28.01 | BazookaTooth | we just moved a bunch of clients to buster.. and as usual debian didn't do its homework |
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| 23:28.58 | BazookaTooth | none of the digital signage works because you broke the hell out of kodi |
| 23:29.51 | BazookaTooth | there is that portuguese one.. but i am not going to drop that on clients |
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| 23:30.40 | BazookaTooth | <PROTECTED> |
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| 23:32.06 | BazookaTooth | annadane: say nothing |
| 23:32.24 | annadane | ? |
| 23:32.38 | annadane | was responing to gkwhc |
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| 23:33.19 | BazookaTooth | just didnt want immediate comments unless you looked, since you responded |
| 23:34.02 | BazookaTooth | it's ugly and easy to rectify but.. |
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| 23:35.20 | BazookaTooth | yup sorry |
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| 23:35.35 | annadane | i've seen conflicting boost dependencies before, that's what i meant |
| 23:35.39 | annadane | not sure what you're talking about |
| 23:35.42 | somiaj | BazookaTooth: have you checked the change log or bug reports on Kodi. It could be no one ran into this issue during testing and thus it was overlooked. |
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| 23:36.08 | somiaj | BazookaTooth: also if you could provide us some info like the output of the commands that give you these conflicts, this can help. |
| 23:36.55 | BazookaTooth | somiaj: i use kodi in production digital signage work so yes |
| 23:37.09 | BazookaTooth | when it breaks.. bad things |
| 23:37.18 | BazookaTooth | buster borkee as hell |
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| 23:37.59 | BazookaTooth | we have these emergency flash things.. >:| |
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| 23:41.58 | somiaj | you should track down what is broken and submit a bug if there isn't one. |
| 23:42.18 | BazookaTooth | :) look at your deployment configs and make sure they match |
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| 23:42.20 | somiaj | If it is deemed bad enough (sounds like it) and fixable, it might make it into a point release if there is a bug. |
| 23:42.47 | somiaj | I don't know enough about your issue (since I don't use kodi), but report a bug is the first step |
| 23:42.52 | somiaj | (if you can't find one already) |
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| 23:43.08 | BazookaTooth | it's fixxie-ish but someonee may have followed my example whcih is another problem |
| 23:43.44 | somiaj | well best of luck, sorry to hear it broke things so badly, but I'm heading home from the office for the day |
| 23:43.47 | BazookaTooth | yopu know how y ou walk into a wendy's and see all the video panels? |
| 23:44.08 | BazookaTooth | that's kinda what i do |
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| 23:44.26 | BazookaTooth | i we get an exp once but sshh |
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| 23:45.12 | BazookaTooth | problems with small groups of poeple.. need to reach out |
| 23:45.48 | BazookaTooth | typing fast and waiting so the bot doesnt kick me |
| 23:46.24 | BazookaTooth | debian works like 80% of the time |
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| 23:56.40 | BazookaTooth | best suggestion someone whispered me.. use a powerpoint |
| 23:57.22 | BazookaTooth | not really any reason for video for this crap anyway |
| 23:57.46 | BazookaTooth | happy thanks.. |
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