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| 00:02.02 | jadax | do you know some reliable, debian-compatible screen recorder? I need a video |
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| 00:05.10 | aaro | ,v recordmydesktop |
| 00:05.11 | judd | Package: recordmydesktop on amd64 -- jessie: 0.3.8.1+svn602-1+b1; buster: 0.3.8.1+svn602-1+b2; stretch: 0.3.8.1+svn602-1+b2; bullseye: 0.3.8.1+svn602-1.1; sid: 0.3.8.1+svn602-1.1 |
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| 00:14.48 | swift110 | hey all |
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| 01:38.03 | swift110 | When I was installing debian I didnt set up the networking on it so now I have no wifi. How do I fix this |
| 01:38.12 | swift110 | its for an ibm z61m |
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| 01:44.17 | lrvick | Hey does anyone have any ideas for a pattern to create a "lockfile" of all currently installed apt packages/version/hashes then tell apt on another system to install/verify from that list so the second system should be close to an exact clone? |
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| 01:54.13 | cef | lrvick: there's dpkg's --get-selections, --clear-selections and --set-selections options. `man dpkg` and go right to the end for examples. |
| 01:56.11 | cef | lrvick: won't verify them, won't remove anything that was never installed on the other system, but it will install all the stuff on the first system but not on the second. |
| 01:57.11 | lrvick | That should probably be good enough. I am trying to make a docker container that builds with the exact same package versions every time for creating deterministic builds. |
| 01:59.28 | joepublic | out of an abundance of curiosity, I ask whether reproducible versions is an issue anywhere except in environments where you will not be connected to a network and will never be apt upgrading? |
| 02:01.46 | cef | lrvick: you might also be able to combine --set-selections with `apt-get -f --reinstall dselect-upgrade` (you will want to try on something you can definitely throw away - not a live system), as I think that might reinstall every package listed in the selections file |
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| 02:05.52 | lrvick | cef: that is exactly what I want. Generate a file I can mount into a debian docker container at build time that defines all packages I want installed with exact versions. |
| 02:05.59 | lrvick | Will try that approach. thanks |
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| 02:51.21 | nas | hi |
| 02:52.31 | teso | why on debian 10 i dont have fdisk in command line? |
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| 02:57.23 | swift110 | back |
| 02:57.48 | swift110 | how do i add network connectivity to debian |
| 02:57.50 | swift110 | ? |
| 02:58.17 | teso | right corner, network icon |
| 02:58.23 | teso | upside |
| 02:58.39 | teso | top* |
| 02:59.15 | swift110 | teso i am aware of that but the firmware is what i need |
| 02:59.36 | swift110 | tried to install it from another machine but that did nothing |
| 02:59.44 | teso | what firmware you need? |
| 03:00.01 | swift110 | for network |
| 03:00.27 | teso | what hardware you have? |
| 03:00.36 | swift110 | ibm z61m |
| 03:01.33 | teso | its very old hardware |
| 03:01.51 | swift110 | yes it is |
| 03:01.59 | swift110 | but thats not an issue |
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| 03:02.59 | teso | swift110: iwconfig |
| 03:03.46 | swift110 | command not found |
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| 03:04.23 | teso | what network card do you have? wired or wireless? |
| 03:05.12 | tomreyn | both |
| 03:06.26 | teso | where is the problem? |
| 03:07.39 | tomreyn | we'll need a swift response there |
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| 03:08.53 | teso | I have installed fresh debian 10, and ifconfig is missing, fdisk is missing, what happend? |
| 03:08.54 | swift110 | device not ready(firmware missing |
| 03:09.30 | teso | paste your dmesg on pastebin |
| 03:10.41 | swift110 | read kernel buffer failed:operation not permitted |
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| 03:12.09 | teso | try with sudo |
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| 03:21.52 | swift110 | ok now running into another issue in that now its telling me im not in the sudoers file |
| 03:22.45 | teso | try su then root password, and then dmesg |
| 03:23.21 | swift110 | awesome |
| 03:24.20 | swift110 | direct firmware load for iwlwifi-3945-1.ucode |
| 03:24.46 | swift110 | direct firmware load for iwlwifi-3945-2.ucode |
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| 03:29.24 | teso | maybe try apt install firmware-iwlwifi |
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| 03:31.40 | swift110 | apt install firmware-iwlwifi |
| 03:32.20 | OS-51738 | join #offsec |
| 03:33.55 | trek00 | OS-51738: spam? |
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| 03:34.12 | OS-51738 | join #offsec |
| 03:34.46 | OS-51738 | whoami |
| 03:35.09 | teso | OS-51738: who are you? |
| 03:35.43 | trek00 | OS-51738: try putting a slash before the command, /join |
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| 03:38.25 | trek00 | swift110: do you resolved your issue? |
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| 03:46.53 | swift110 | trek00, I haven't recieved anymore instructions so no |
| 03:47.14 | trek00 | swift110: briefly, what was your problem? |
| 03:47.49 | swift110 | device not ready(firmware missing |
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| 03:47.58 | swift110 | direct firmware load for iwlwifi-3945-1.ucode |
| 03:48.04 | swift110 | direct firmware load for iwlwifi-3945-2.ucode |
| 03:48.17 | trek00 | swift110: it seems it is loading the firmware |
| 03:48.55 | swift110 | no it fails to load the firmware because it wasnt installed upon installation of debian |
| 03:48.56 | trek00 | swift110: are you done a reboot after installing firmware? |
| 03:49.39 | swift110 | i dont have internet connection and I tried to install the firmware from debian.com but that process is confusing me as well |
| 03:50.00 | swift110 | i dont have internet connection on the debian laptop is what I am saying |
| 03:50.28 | trek00 | swift110: ok, well you can download it from packages.debian.org, do you have debian buster installed? |
| 03:50.41 | swift110 | yes I do |
| 03:51.22 | trek00 | swift110: you can download from a link here https://packages.debian.org/buster/all/firmware-iwlwifi/download |
| 03:51.31 | swift110 | I copied and saved the firmware package from the site but I haven't rebooted so I will do that |
| 03:51.49 | trek00 | swift110: you must install before the reboot |
| 03:51.59 | swift110 | ok |
| 03:52.04 | swift110 | rebooted machine |
| 03:52.20 | trek00 | swift110: as root, just type: dpkg -i firmware-iwlwifi_20190114-2_all.deb |
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| 03:55.44 | swift110 | ill copy that command to a text file save it to usb and then copy and paste that command in the terminal on the debian laptp |
| 03:58.10 | trek00 | swift110: it should be called from the same directory you have the downloaded firmware package or you should set the full path on the command line eg dpkg -i /mnt/somedirectory/filename.deb |
| 04:00.47 | swift110 | ok I have the downloaded firmware package saved to the downloads folder |
| 04:01.05 | swift110 | I was expecting for it to unpack and to install it and reboot and be done but its not working that way |
| 04:01.55 | trek00 | swift110: it is installed correctly or it shows some errors? |
| 04:02.08 | swift110 | i dont know |
| 04:02.38 | trek00 | swift110: what is the output of dpkg -i? |
| 04:02.54 | swift110 | dpkg:error: 2 expected programs not found in PATH or not executable |
| 04:02.54 | dpkg | swift110: no idea |
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| 04:03.49 | swift110 | invalid option trek |
| 04:04.26 | trek00 | swift110: it seems to me a broken installation if you can't install a package |
| 04:05.10 | ghormoon | can i somehow add vsyscall=enable runtime so i don't have to keep in it kernel options by default and just add it runtime when i need it? |
| 04:05.26 | trek00 | swift110: or may be, try to use "su -" to begin root, it will set the correct PATH |
| 04:05.38 | ghormoon | *sorry vsyscall=emulate |
| 04:05.40 | swift110 | im already in su |
| 04:05.57 | trek00 | swift110: after su - (this is a minus symbol) you can try again dpkg -i filename.deb |
| 04:06.04 | swift110 | ok |
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| 04:07.17 | trek00 | ghormoon: do you mean with grub? |
| 04:07.36 | swift110 | -i is an invalid option |
| 04:07.43 | ghormoon | i mean not to have to do it by grub, but change it runtime once i realise i need it for a while |
| 04:08.01 | swift110 | su: invalid option -- i |
| 04:08.03 | ghormoon | and ideally also turn it off afterwards without reboot |
| 04:08.28 | trek00 | swift110: pay attention: |
| 04:08.28 | trek00 | su - |
| 04:08.28 | trek00 | dpkg -i filename.deb |
| 04:08.29 | dpkg | installs filename.deb into trek00's head with a bone saw and a few screws |
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| 04:10.11 | swift110 | cannot access archive |
| 04:11.22 | swift110 | the deb file is saved to my downloads folder so I am not understanding why it wont install |
| 04:11.30 | swift110 | im in root |
| 04:13.28 | trek00 | swift110: try to go in the download folder |
| 04:13.48 | trek00 | ghormoon: i don't think it's possibile |
| 04:14.32 | swift110 | trek00, how do I do that? |
| 04:14.53 | trek00 | swift110: cd /full/path/name/of/your/download/folder :) |
| 04:15.05 | trek00 | swift110: i don't know where it is located |
| 04:15.13 | ghormoon | damn, i'll need to be rebooting then :( (i'vefound out that my centos6 container that i randomly need fails without that) |
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| 04:15.42 | swift110 | trek00, the needed deb file is in the downloads folder |
| 04:16.15 | swift110 | right click will unpack the deb file but doesnt install it |
| 04:16.20 | trek00 | swift110: what is the full pathname of the download folder? |
| 04:16.55 | trek00 | swift110: sometimes you can open a terminal directly from the filenamaner, try a right click in the download folder |
| 04:17.16 | swift110 | that doesnt work |
| 04:17.53 | trek00 | swift110: well copy the firmware file .deb in your /tmp |
| 04:18.19 | trek00 | swift110: then do: dpkg -i /tmp/firmware-iwlwifi_20190114-2_all.deb |
| 04:19.23 | swift110 | i enabled hidden files to be shown |
| 04:19.31 | swift110 | dont see /tmp |
| 04:20.35 | trek00 | swift110: do you have /root= |
| 04:20.40 | swift110 | yes |
| 04:20.47 | trek00 | copy in your /root directory |
| 04:21.07 | swift110 | trek00, how do I do that? |
| 04:21.16 | trek00 | swift110: with your filemanager |
| 04:21.37 | trek00 | swift110: right click copy, then go in /root and rigth click paste |
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| 04:25.21 | swift110 | unknown option |
| 04:27.35 | trek00 | swift110: may be something in your installation is broken or you are typing wrong commands, may be it will be simpler for you to reinstall it using the "unofficial" debian cd images with firmware included: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
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| 04:30.53 | trek00 | swift110: you find the image at the end of the page |
| 04:31.10 | swift110 | yeah im getting it now |
| 04:31.28 | swift110 | the non free iso |
| 04:31.39 | swift110 | wish I had gotten that one in the first place |
| 04:32.12 | swift110 | or if i tried to set up the networking during installation rather than afterwards |
| 04:34.43 | trek00 | swift110: hope this will help you :) |
| 04:35.45 | swift110 | thanks trek |
| 04:35.50 | trek00 | :) |
| 04:36.08 | swift110 | whats interesting is that I couldn't play media so I got the deb for vlc but that wont install either |
| 04:37.18 | swift110 | ive installed deb files before so thats why this one confused me so much |
| 04:37.41 | swift110 | its supposed to just install and then I can use vlc |
| 04:37.50 | trek00 | swift110: may be something gone wrong with this installation |
| 04:38.53 | swift110 | im not sure what though. the only issue I had initially was the lack of firmware for networking |
| 04:39.19 | swift110 | but what you are saying makes sense given that other deb files wont install either |
| 04:39.48 | trek00 | swift110: sometimes problems are difficult diagnose on linux, but using it you will gain experience for sure |
| 04:40.49 | swift110 | I've been using linux for a long time now but didn't decide to use debian until now |
| 04:41.24 | swift110 | Ive used ubuntu and linux mint and several other distros and never had an issue with networking |
| 04:41.46 | trek00 | swift110: may be other distributions have a different setup, like sudo to begin root or some graphical interface installed by default |
| 04:42.17 | trek00 | swift110: many other distros ships firmware in the official cd image |
| 04:42.38 | swift110 | yes it seems they come with the firmware in the cd image |
| 04:43.33 | trek00 | swift110: the documentation on debian is poor, but the system is robust and really extensive (much more packages than other distributions) |
| 04:43.36 | swift110 | thankfully this isnt a big deal. I do have other machines to use for sure but I hope to get the hang of debian |
| 04:44.23 | swift110 | ive avoided it for years but now i want to really get into it |
| 04:44.51 | trek00 | swift110: i hope you will get a pleasant experience with debian, once all issues are resolved :) |
| 04:45.52 | lrvick | cef: seems this only outputs package names, not versions. |
| 04:46.26 | lrvick | I want a "lock" style list that ensures if I do the apt-get install from the list 6 months from now, I still get the same versions as today (provided any mirrors still have them) |
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| 04:46.50 | lrvick | use case is deterministic builds, so I can't have the version of GCC or anything else in the toolchain changing on me, etc |
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| 04:56.00 | trek00 | lrvick: i think you need a custom shell script to do it |
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| 04:57.45 | swift110 | thanks trek00 |
| 04:58.24 | trek00 | lrvick: something like: dpkg-query -W | sed 's/\t/=/' >/tmp/dpkg-selection.txt; apt install $(cat /tmp/dpkg-selection.txt) |
| 04:59.16 | trek00 | lrvick: but you should double check what is begin installed |
| 04:59.33 | trek00 | swift110: is it running fine now? |
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| 05:03.47 | swift110 | trek00, im gonna install debian again another day but hopefully it will be better next time |
| 05:04.05 | trek00 | swift110: good :) |
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| 05:04.19 | lrvick | for package in $(cat packages.txt); do apt-cache madison $package; done | sed -e 's/| http.*//g' -e 's/\s\+//g' |
| 05:04.32 | lrvick | that gets me all the versions and packages in perhaps the best worst way I can think of. |
| 05:04.43 | lrvick | suggestions for something less horrible very welcome. |
| 05:04.45 | trek00 | lrvick: check dpkg-query |
| 05:05.44 | trek00 | lrvick: dpkg-query -W | tr '\t' '=' |
| 05:06.23 | lrvick | I also want to pin digst hashes of packages so if someone compromises a maintainer signing key and swaps out a package version on me via an HTTP man in the middle... I'll have a defense against it. The version # alone is also not really good enough. |
| 05:06.26 | lrvick | hrm |
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| 05:37.49 | trek00 | lrvick: if the version is not enough, just copy /var/cache/apt/archives over your systems |
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| 05:52.38 | lrvick | That is empty for me. |
| 05:52.50 | lrvick | oh. That is the actual package files. |
| 05:53.00 | lrvick | Yeah that is too heavy to commit to a git repo. |
| 05:53.21 | lrvick | need just enough information to provably re-obtain the correct packages from mirrors at specific hashes. |
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| 05:54.07 | trek00 | lrvick: you can't download packages by hash |
| 05:54.24 | lrvick | no but I can download them by version, then check the hash just before installing |
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| 05:54.49 | lrvick | if I have to fill up apt-cache by hand I can, but what a mess. |
| 05:55.01 | lrvick | Bah. I was really hoping someone already wrote an apt-lock tool. It seems like such a no brainer to have considering the recent focus on reproducible builds. Why not have that for the package manager itself? |
| 05:55.25 | ergonot | Is it possible to pass a usb device through over the network to KVM? I.E. plugging a usb device into a computer running virt-manager, and passing this through to a server running KVM? |
| 05:55.25 | trek00 | lrvick: have you tried the commands i sent you? |
| 05:56.15 | lrvick | trek00: yeah those are -perfect- for the first phase of what I need to do. |
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| 05:56.59 | lrvick | I can use that right away and it is already a major improvement. |
| 05:57.10 | lrvick | thanks :) |
| 05:57.20 | lrvick | I'll keep mulling on how to do hash checking as well... |
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| 05:58.01 | trek00 | lrvick: you can use apt-get install -d to donwload only the packges, sha256sum the /var/cache/apt/archives and check the hashes, then apt-get install without -d |
| 05:58.28 | lrvick | oh! Good call. that should be easy enough to script |
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| 05:59.17 | trek00 | ergonot: may be with nbd? |
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| 06:01.49 | ergonot | I do not want to assign host device usb to the guest. I want to assign a usb device from my work station to the guest running on a seperated host device. |
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| 06:03.39 | trek00 | lrvick: i hope this help you, if not ask for more :) |
| 06:04.25 | trek00 | ergonot: nbd is a block device abstraction over the network |
| 06:04.45 | lrvick | trek00: This seems totally doable. Didn't know you could break apt into two steps like that. |
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| 06:24.35 | themill | lrvick: btw the maintainer signature is not used by apt at all so a compromised maintainer key is not relevant |
| 06:24.56 | ergonot | trek00 thank you. |
| 06:25.12 | ergonot | I am having issue with limited docmumentation. Care to point me toward anything that may be useful? |
| 06:25.14 | themill | it sounds a bit like you are trying to reimplement apt-offline (which fwiw fails to do some of these things correctl) |
| 06:25.46 | trek00 | ergonot: a simple tutorial https://sweetcode.io/introduction-to-linux-network-block-devices/ |
| 06:26.38 | trek00 | ergonot: note: there is no authentication, you should tunnel it over ssh or other secure channels |
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| 06:31.30 | lrvick | themill: Oh right, you sign the entire list of packages/hashes regardless of who signed them earlier. So then in order to manipulate a package you would actually need both the maintainers key and debians package list signing key, yeah? |
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| 06:41.12 | trek00 | lrvick: i think only the latter, as apt only check for package list signing key |
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| 06:43.24 | lrvick | Sure but as long as debian checks the signatures of the maintainers before they put it in the list, then an attacker still can't succeed in clobbering a tag without compromising both the list maintainer and the package maintainer. Unless I am missing something obvious. |
| 06:44.18 | lrvick | you -could- do a downgrade attack with only the maintainer key though. |
| 06:44.47 | lrvick | actually no, as version number is embedded in the package? |
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| 06:45.24 | lrvick | huh |
| 06:45.48 | trek00 | lrvick: i think that if an attacker compromise the master ftp server and the debian archive signing key, he could put a package, rebuild the list and sign with the compromised key |
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| 06:46.26 | lrvick | oh right. You don't get any of the big benefits here unless apt itself checks both maintainer sigs -and- list sig. |
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| 06:46.48 | trek00 | lrvick: the maintainer's key is not checked by apt at all, only hashes of the packages and the signtature on the packages list, that contains packages hash |
| 06:47.00 | lrvick | Well that is a design flaw of apt then imo that should be easy enough to fix transparently. I wonder if there is already a bug report... |
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| 06:48.48 | trek00 | lrvick: may be i don't explain clearly, there is no design flaw, once the release team are ok with a package, they take its hash and sign it with all the other packages and apt will check both list signature and package hash |
| 06:50.01 | trek00 | lrvick: it's the release team that must check the maintainer signature of the packages before it is uploaded on ftp-master |
| 06:50.23 | lrvick | I mean the design flaw is that by apt not checking the maintainer signatures it puts a single point of failure on the debian release release team key. Compare to Arch which decentralizes the trust out to every maintainer and has all clients pin the maintainer keys. |
| 06:50.32 | themill | (it's not the release team that does any of this, but otherwise yes) |
| 06:50.45 | lrvick | but there is no reason to not do both |
| 06:51.03 | themill | lrvick: no, there is no maintainer signature for apt to check |
| 06:51.22 | trek00 | lrvick: good point, with this Arch method you can have two different sources of trust for each package |
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| 06:51.53 | lrvick | Yeah that is what I am after. that way if debian maintainer key holder became coerced, you -also- have to hit the maintainers. |
| 06:52.14 | lrvick | Arch and debian do it opposite, but you need both imo. |
| 06:52.20 | themill | no |
| 06:52.44 | themill | If someone can do what they like with the ftp-master key, then they could add in a new maintainer key too |
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| 06:53.18 | themill | (also, checking signatures made by expired or revokes keys is not a path you want to go down) |
| 06:53.53 | lrvick | Clients would have to verify against -cached- sets of maintainer keys and follow the chain forward for this to have value, otherwise yes you are correct. |
| 06:54.05 | lrvick | like https key pinning |
| 06:54.16 | lrvick | once you get it once, it can anchor your trust from then forward |
| 06:54.24 | lrvick | (this is also what arch does) |
| 06:54.39 | trek00 | themill: right, but the client can check if a maintainer key is changed (if it needs more security on the trust path) |
| 06:54.41 | themill | Preventing me from fixing bugs in other packages is not a good plan |
| 06:54.59 | lrvick | themill: I am not sure I follow. Can you elaborate? |
| 06:55.06 | trek00 | themill: that is another good point, non maintainer uploads |
| 06:55.19 | themill | trek00: the average user has no way of knowing if they should or should not accept that change in key. It's useless at that point |
| 06:55.45 | trek00 | lrvick: sometimes packages are updated by others maintainers, if the one who own the packages is unreachable at the time |
| 06:56.20 | lrvick | You could till do non-maintainer uploads perhaps if the upload is signed by 2 + current other debian maintainers. So as long as you have a cryptographic proof you had a review, then you could take over when needed. |
| 06:56.32 | trek00 | themill: the average user should not be involved, it should be an "expert" option to be enabled |
| 06:56.43 | lrvick | would be easy to have a policy in apt with threshold signing to override things and avoid any SPOF. |
| 06:56.51 | themill | trek00: then that's even more useless |
| 06:58.12 | lrvick | So the design would be: pin all maintainer keys, but allow m-of-n other maintainers to sign off on designating a new maintainer key for another package. As long as the clients know that rule it is easy to enforce. It also means no maintainer can go cowboy and take over another package without someone else on the debian team sanity checking. |
| 06:58.29 | lrvick | In this way, with no user facing changes, you can eliminate a key compromise SPOF |
| 06:58.35 | lrvick | at every stage |
| 06:59.31 | lrvick | for high security sensitive packages like ssh maybe you make the m-of-n threshhold to allow a key change higher. |
| 06:59.41 | lrvick | maybe 5 people all have to agree to clobber ssh for instance. |
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| 07:00.57 | trek00 | lrvick: it could be a nice idea, but it needs some not so little change to the infrastructure and software |
| 07:01.00 | lrvick | If there is interest, I am happy to research this a bit more and write up a proper proposal for this. It seems like a really attainable win for much stronger supply chain integrity on debian. |
| 07:01.27 | themill | To have credibility, you need to at least understand what is currently done. Just saying. |
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| 07:05.26 | lrvick | naturally, which is why I am high level right now trying to understand what is currently done. What I have heard right away is that some of the checks I assumed apt had, it does not. |
| 07:05.44 | lrvick | which makes me sad, so now I have some motivation to help get that fixed if I can. |
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| 07:06.30 | trek00 | lrvick: may be here is explained with a better english than mine :) https://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt |
| 07:06.40 | themill | There not being anything to check is significant. |
| 07:06.45 | themill | !man apt-secure |
| 07:06.45 | dpkg | man apt-secure is probably at http://manpages.debian.org/apt-secure where you can view many Debian man pages. Ask me about <docs> <dmp> <grounding> <search>. |
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| 07:07.26 | themill | You need to remember that apt does not download anything that the maintainer uploaded. |
| 07:07.55 | lrvick | MVP would be you simply manually upload more than one detached maintainer signature to a given package any time that package is going to change its own maintainer keys to all mirrors. From there a future client could pull maintainer signatures any time they download a package. They could then have logic to check all new package downloads against previously cached maintainer keys. For the client to accept a |
| 07:07.57 | lrvick | change in maintainer keys it will check those extra signatures exist or not. |
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| 07:08.05 | lrvick | That would be a super crude way to do it of course |
| 07:08.15 | themill | Signatures of *what*. |
| 07:08.24 | lrvick | the package sha256 |
| 07:08.49 | themill | the maintainer does not upload anything that apt downloads... |
| 07:09.18 | lrvick | They upload source code do they not? then from there others take over and sign with the release keys yes? |
| 07:09.29 | themill | That is correct. |
| 07:09.40 | lrvick | So as long as builds are deterministic, there is no problem. |
| 07:09.46 | themill | builds are not deterministic |
| 07:10.00 | trek00 | themill: but they are almost reproducible |
| 07:10.05 | themill | not really |
| 07:10.29 | themill | Dude, people have been working on this problem for decades. You're not going to solve it with a little brain storming one Sunday afternoon. |
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| 07:10.57 | trek00 | themill: this for sure |
| 07:11.22 | lrvick | Didn't expect to. But every solution starts with an exploration. |
| 07:11.35 | themill | You need to fix gcc before you do anything, then. |
| 07:12.22 | lrvick | I do deterministic builds for lots of thing for a living actually. It is generally attainable on most things. |
| 07:12.42 | themill | Not if you're using gcc. |
| 07:12.51 | lrvick | True. |
| 07:13.18 | lrvick | Android is pretty much all determinsitic but they have a pretty customized compiler chain. |
| 07:13.18 | themill | About 90% of Debian packages are reproducible iff you use a modified gcc. Your scheme requires a non-modified gcc and 100% reproducibility. |
| 07:14.15 | lrvick | So to help people make sure my releases of android are determinstic, I distribute a container, so we all use the same toolchain. Custom patches etc all included so we are on the same page to do verifications. |
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| 07:15.05 | lrvick | Also ships with libfaketime and a fixed /dev/random and a few other things to force determinisim. Works really well except for when generating private keys but those of course you do separate. |
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| 07:15.32 | trek00 | indeed if a maintainer sign the source package, then this package is automatically build on a buildserver and then the binary packages hash is signed with the debian archive key, there is no simple way to check the maintainer signature on the source package |
| 07:16.44 | lrvick | Well to tie trust to deterministic builds you would want the maintainer to submit their hash of the compiled build with their source submission and ensure the server gets the same result. |
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| 07:16.56 | lrvick | then you end up having both signatures meet in the middle to confirm the same thing |
| 07:17.06 | lrvick | both linking the source and the hash. Then it works. |
| 07:17.50 | trek00 | lrvick: yes, but it needs reproducible builds running fine, i didn't know a modified gcc was needed |
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| 07:19.01 | lrvick | well even if gcc behaved always, timestamps and other things cause issues. Better to just have everyone use a container of some kind with identical tooling and some globals to freeze the universe. |
| 07:19.03 | trek00 | lrvick: it needs also the maintainer to compile packages for any supported architecture |
| 07:19.31 | lrvick | Yes, it would. For most packages this is easy. For chromium... not so much. |
| 07:19.48 | lrvick | but in those exceptional cases some donations could perhaps cover the burden. |
| 07:19.51 | cef | not so much "any" as "all" |
| 07:20.07 | trek00 | cef: oops :) |
| 07:21.43 | lrvick | but one could ship a container in the apt signers toolkit that when doing a release prep arg will compile a package in every supported arch in pre-built cross-dev containers and attach all the hashes along with the source submission. |
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| 07:23.02 | lrvick | or, option B. if the maintainer does not want to build, two different debian build servers confirm the same hash and the source maintainer continues just maintaining source. |
| 07:23.05 | cef | lrvick: which 1. would take a while to run, especially on the larger projects. 2. not all arches cross-compile or even have emulation that works 100% the same - there's differences. |
| 07:23.09 | lrvick | more than on way to skin that cat |
| 07:23.13 | themill | timestamps are easy and that's already solved |
| 07:23.14 | trek00 | lrvick: it seems to me technically feasible, but it could add a maintenance burden to maintainers |
| 07:24.57 | cef | things like NMU's and the security team stuff would probably make it even more a problem. |
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| 07:25.41 | lrvick | cef: Yeah crossdev is out for smaller weird architectures. I end up just running docker inside KVM with docker-machine for builds now so I can build any arch on one box transparently. Slow but only one machine. |
| 07:25.56 | lrvick | I forgot how man arches debian supports. |
| 07:26.51 | lrvick | So yeah maybe just having reproducible build clusters maintained by different people and signed by different keys they each control, you can delgate the build responsibility. |
| 07:27.03 | lrvick | then nothing at all changes from what maintainers do today. |
| 07:27.11 | lrvick | and this becomes a backend concern |
| 07:27.35 | themill | Basically, you've just built the existing buildd network |
| 07:27.44 | cef | ;) |
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| 07:27.55 | themill | (but until you fix gcc, this is a moot point) |
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| 07:28.42 | themill | (and the 3000 other source packages that are not reproducibly built for other reasons) |
| 07:28.56 | lrvick | Yeah you probably have that bit already about as good as is reasonable for the stuff that you -can- build deterministic. |
| 07:29.52 | themill | but your scheme requires it to be 100% |
| 07:29.56 | trek00 | themill: just for curiosity, any link about gcc issues on reproducible builds? |
| 07:30.09 | lrvick | themill: only for packages that opt in |
| 07:30.17 | themill | https://reproducible-builds.org/ |
| 07:30.23 | lrvick | the client could know which ones can enforce this and which can not. |
| 07:30.44 | themill | How would the client know this in a non-downgradable, non-spof way? |
| 07:31.23 | lrvick | You have to sign a noop policy at least once I think with the m-of-n. |
| 07:32.10 | lrvick | if m-of-n maintainerrs agree a package is not determinsitic yet, then that policy remains until apt sees otherwise signed by the same or greater number of people. |
| 07:32.29 | lrvick | scratch the or greater |
| 07:32.30 | themill | trek00: https://reproducible-builds.org/docs/build-path/ specifically; you also have to change all uses of __FILE__ within libraries (like Qt's test discovery stuff is utterly broken by this) |
| 07:33.41 | lrvick | Yeah reproducible builds project is what got me into this stuff in the first place as I study supply chain attacks. Trying to see how various implementations play out, but also how at least 2 people are always confirming everything from source all the way client installed binaries. |
| 07:34.10 | trek00 | themill: thank you |
| 07:34.24 | lrvick | getting clients to be able to verify everything would be tricky, but I don't see any hard blockers so far. |
| 07:35.20 | lrvick | clients would have to verify the repo build signatures on the binaries against the downloaded hashes and verify that the source code hashes were signed by the maintainer that is signed by m-of-n other maintainers... I think you could connect the dots. |
| 07:37.44 | trek00 | lrvick: this reproducibility thing should be fixed before investing on others trust measures |
| 07:37.51 | lrvick | basically the end story is ensuring the client can prove every package was verified by two build servers to match the published source code hash which is in turn signed by the current maintainer per a cached key, or m-of-n other maintainiers it already has cached |
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| 07:39.40 | lrvick | Now today this is already possible for a lot of packages. sadly not all and some perhaps never... but why wait on those forever? When you cache the key/maintainer relationships you also cache what policy level that repo enforces by. If maintainer keys are required at all. |
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| 07:40.08 | lrvick | But yeah I mean getting packages that matter reproducible is of course the goal |
| 07:40.29 | trek00 | lrvick: if the package build process could be seen as a compression function, then you could link the source file to the binary package, but only when the build process is deterministic |
| 07:40.57 | lrvick | Exactly. |
| 07:41.19 | lrvick | I think it could be detemrinistic for most packages, but yes... doing that is the most important next step. |
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| 07:42.22 | lrvick | I am spoiled by playing in android the last few months where everything is already like 99.995% determinsitic by forcing everything to use the same toolchain and patching everything to hell as needed. |
| 07:42.33 | trek00 | even with all these complex issues, i think it's an interesting idea |
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| 07:46.04 | lrvick | I guess it comes down to how practical is it go get debian 100% deterministic in the short to medium term. Else it might be worth going ahead with something like this even if you have to mask problematic packages to a "less secure" designation clients can select for. |
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| 07:48.33 | trek00 | lrvick: the only thing i dislike is to have to trust a consensus of build servers instead to have the client to check maintainer signature, but the only way to check is to build the package and it will be like on gentoo, rebuild all the packages before install |
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| 07:49.37 | lrvick | Or trust a quorum of people all built and get the same hash |
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| 07:50.05 | lrvick | in the case of bitcoind like 20+ volunteers sign every release |
| 07:50.23 | lrvick | that is probably the gold standard in this space. |
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| 07:51.34 | lrvick | as long as enough people with public reputations in different legal jursdictions are responsible for confirming hash/source pairs by building, -and- they all agree on the same thing, then client can still have high confidence. |
| 07:51.52 | trek00 | lrvick: the maintenance burden is another thing that fears me, but it could be enable only on a small selection of core packages |
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| 07:52.55 | lrvick | Yeah like start out with security packages, ssh etc... the bare bones stuff then gradually migrate. This does not need to be an all-or-nothing, but one package at a time. |
| 07:53.17 | lrvick | then clients can configure their own trust comfort. |
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| 07:54.20 | lrvick | I proposed something like this for NixOS last year but their package integrity story is also not ideal. https://github.com/lrvick/rfcs/blob/1f31e80777829455e633923f73acf2bbc8fc8855/rfcs/0034-package-integrity.md |
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| 07:54.55 | lrvick | but they pretty much gave up because maintainrs have never had pgp keys and have never signed before and don't want to learn. |
| 07:55.15 | lrvick | so debian is probably a much better candidate for this sort of approach. |
| 07:56.28 | lrvick | oh... that was 3 years ago. I forgot how time works. |
| 07:56.30 | trek00 | lrvick: even if i dislike the consensus model, may be the only method to achieve the goals |
| 07:57.25 | lrvick | Not ideal, but strictly better than today with SPOF. |
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| 08:01.55 | trek00 | lrvick: in your model, if there are 3 build servers and 1 server build a binary package different from the others, who check the consensus? apt or the debian team? |
| 08:01.57 | lrvick | A lot of very mission critical things at many companies run on debian. I am a paranoid guy and I worry about a centralized key being compromised and a lot of bad packages shipping to mission critical use cases before anyone realizes what happened. Decentralizing it also is a good safety measure for the holders of those central package list keys. If a hostile entity wanted to target that person in a desire to |
| 08:02.00 | lrvick | gain temporary control over debian it is better if there is a public demonstration that harm on them won't allow in remote code execution, but that other verifiers in other countries with must be threatened too in tandem. |
| 08:02.15 | lrvick | So while I prefer 100% decentralization, even partial can have some real safety wins |
| 08:03.58 | lrvick | trek00: If there is a disagreement, then you can't proceed to publishing. it is a hard blocker. |
| 08:04.24 | lrvick | and if that one party is no longer trusted |
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| 08:04.38 | lrvick | m-of-n maintainers of a high threshold could vote to replace it with a new key. |
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| 08:04.52 | lrvick | and apt clients could verify those proofs for build server key changes. |
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| 08:09.49 | lrvick | the edge cases of rotating build-server keys and maintainer keys are the most complex bit of this but that is really not too bad. |
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| 08:10.00 | lrvick | lot of scripting, but not conceptually hard. |
| 08:11.35 | trek00 | lrvick: it's an interesting idea, may be in the future all the bits needed will be done |
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| 08:13.32 | lrvick | Yeah but they would never be built at all without an endgame in mind. Gotta start ramping up signing, turning on enforcement one package at a time, and all the little implementation details. |
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| 08:15.08 | lrvick | You mentioned gentoo earlier, and that is actually still my biggest argument for it, but it is so impractical for many use cases. I have been searching for a while for any -binary- distro that has a s strong of a story for supply chain attack mitigation. |
| 08:15.43 | trek00 | lrvick: i think we should move on #debian-offtopic |
| 08:16.37 | lrvick | Arch does distribute all maintainer keys but they are not stable enough for most production use cases. Tradeoffs everywhere but not any actual incompatibilities |
| 08:16.40 | lrvick | mmkay |
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| 08:29.56 | TomasCZ | Hello, I'm trying to loopback boot into debian iso file. Most other images work but debian based ones aside slax, no dice. what am I missing? Which kernel parameter is used for Debian to tell it where is iso to mount? |
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| 08:35.01 | trek00 | TomasCZ: what you mean with loopback boot? |
| 08:35.02 | BenNZ | TomasCZ: it can depend in which iso you have |
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| 08:38.42 | gidna | Hello |
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| 08:39.12 | gidna | it is possible that on debian.org there is not clearly mentioned what's the current debian version! |
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| 08:39.58 | trek00 | gidna: it's written: The latest stable release of Debian is 10.1. |
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| 08:42.05 | gidna | I've this: 4.19.0-5-amd64 |
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| 08:42.18 | gidna | How can I find out the -v? |
| 08:42.32 | trek00 | gidna: this is the version of the kernel |
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| 08:43.29 | gidna | Is there a command for debian's version? |
| 08:43.47 | trek00 | gidna: cat /etc/debian_version |
| 08:43.48 | Frank_Ray | neofetch |
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| 08:44.35 | gidna | 10.0 |
| 08:44.54 | Frank_Ray | apt update && apt dist-upgrade |
| 08:45.03 | Frank_Ray | :) |
| 08:45.14 | trek00 | apt update is sufficient |
| 08:45.14 | apt | ...but update is already something else... |
| 08:46.06 | gidna | there is a new release every few months.. if compared to other distros |
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| 08:47.07 | trek00 | gidna: it's only an update, not a new release |
| 08:49.20 | gidna | what's the difference? what comes along with a release? |
| 08:53.13 | trek00 | gidna: an update contains only bugfixes, while a new release contains completely new versions of the software |
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| 08:55.18 | gidna | software is too generic of all software packages?? |
| 08:56.06 | trek00 | gidna: yes, software packages |
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| 09:01.29 | ratrace | well for some things the point release updates contain new versions |
| 09:02.16 | gidna | I don't think there there'll be updates for every single package.. |
| 09:02.46 | trek00 | gidna: no, only these packages https://www.debian.org/News/2019/20190907 |
| 09:02.50 | trek00 | plus the security ones |
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| 10:15.15 | TomasCZ | trek00, BenNZ, creating multiboot USB, so I create GPT formatted, add regular and UEFI grub, then how to configure that to be able to boot various distributions including, debian,ubuntu,devuan etc. Which iso, well originally I was using netinstall, but I also have 10.0...live x86_64 and normal 10.0 iso |
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| 10:16.23 | TomasCZ | trek00, BenNZ For other like say arch, cloneZilla, centOs, coreos, fedora, tails, systemrescuecd, etc these at least boot fine. |
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| 10:18.55 | TomasCZ | trek00, but debian is what I'm using though :-/. sad part, I can't get it to work in that configuration. I tried to add to vmlinuz things like: findiso=path_to_file fromiso=path_to_file, but no dice. |
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| 10:20.55 | DerekBum | hello, should I try installing Dropbox by building the source (as explained on the Dropbox page) or adding an Ubuntu repository (this is Debian 10 btw) |
| 10:22.53 | BCMM | DerekBum: what and where is the "Dropbox page"? does dropbox really have source available? |
| 10:23.22 | DerekBum | https://help.dropbox.com/en-us/installs-integrations/desktop/linux-commands |
| 10:23.50 | DerekBum | "How to build the Dropbox installer for Linux from source" |
| 10:23.59 | BCMM | ah right, i thought you meant the dropbox page on the debian wiki |
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| 10:24.42 | DerekBum | the Dropbox page on Debian wiki is from 2016 so I have no idea if that method still applies |
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| 10:25.54 | trek00 | TomasCZ: i remember there was a bootloader inside cdimages |
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| 10:30.59 | trek00 | TomasCZ: may be this could help you https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch04s03.en.html#usb-copy-easy |
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| 10:32.25 | trek00 | DerekBum: try this https://packages.debian.org/buster/nautilus-dropbox |
| 10:32.54 | trek00 | DerekBum: sorry may be it's outdated, |
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| 10:34.11 | trek00 | DerekBum: probably you need to build it form the source |
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| 11:06.03 | [sr] | howdy |
| 11:06.10 | [sr] | i need php7.2-curl 7.2.11-3 version |
| 11:06.25 | [sr] | for x64, cant find ir in archives, where could i get it from? |
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| 11:07.53 | cristian_c | [sr]: question: buster? |
| 11:08.07 | [sr] | yes (i think) |
| 11:08.23 | cristian_c | you could check |
| 11:08.42 | themill | php7.2 isn't anywhere in Debian |
| 11:08.58 | [sr] | etc/issue says bulseye |
| 11:09.04 | cristian_c | :O |
| 11:09.06 | [sr] | bullseye |
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| 11:11.46 | cristian_c | yes |
| 11:11.52 | cristian_c | bullseye 7.3 |
| 11:12.02 | cristian_c | stretch 7.0 |
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| 11:12.45 | [sr] | buster 7.2 right? |
| 11:13.11 | ratrace | no, 7.3 |
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| 11:14.07 | ratrace | ,v php |
| 11:14.09 | judd | Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; bullseye: 2:7.3+69; buster: 2:7.3+69; sid: 2:7.3+69 |
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| 11:14.14 | cristian_c | if you try to install 7.2 on bustrr, you'll have dependecies issues |
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| 11:14.35 | ratrace | so the question is, why do you think you need that specific version of php-curl |
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| 11:17.33 | cristian_c | hi, a question |
| 11:18.30 | cristian_c | I'd like to assign a command (shortcut) to a key on an input device |
| 11:19.04 | cristian_c | I'm using a no-desktop debian version (server) |
| 11:19.26 | [sr] | ratrace: whats the code name for 7.2? |
| 11:19.28 | cristian_c | I don't know how to assign shortcuts from terminal |
| 11:19.52 | cristian_c | Any ideas? |
| 11:20.06 | trek00 | [sr]: there is no code name for 7.2, it seems you installed it during the testing phase |
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| 11:20.21 | cristian_c | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:20.36 | ratrace | php releases don't have codenames btw |
| 11:21.17 | trek00 | cristian_c: it depends by the terminal, but i'm not sure to understand, you would like to print command_name when pressing something like ctrl+k? |
| 11:21.27 | humpled | depends what the device is and what is going to be listening |
| 11:21.46 | cristian_c | trek00: executing a command when pressing such key, exactly |
| 11:22.03 | cristian_c | (shortcut) |
| 11:22.27 | cristian_c | trek00: input device is a remote control, |
| 11:22.28 | trek00 | cristian_c: executing it in a specified terminal or in the background or in a newly opened terminal? |
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| 11:23.18 | trek00 | cristian_c: as humpled said it depend by who is listening for that device |
| 11:23.24 | ratrace | cristian_c: there's the xbindkeys program you can use independently of a DE |
| 11:23.25 | humpled | maybe lircd |
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| 11:23.34 | cristian_c | trek00: command is 'shutdown -h now' |
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| 11:24.18 | cristian_c | ratrace: as I said, I'm using ddbian server (no window managers) |
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| 11:24.35 | cristian_c | it's used as a server |
| 11:24.48 | cristian_c | no need of gui |
| 11:25.36 | cristian_c | humpled: I understand, I know that lirc is not needed anymore since linux 4.15 |
| 11:25.44 | humpled | oh, oops |
| 11:26.11 | cristian_c | indeed, the device keys are properly detected, by event tools |
| 11:26.32 | cristian_c | I remember /dev/input/event* |
| 11:26.43 | humpled | cool, |
| 11:26.51 | cristian_c | I just need to assign keypresses to an action |
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| 11:27.08 | cristian_c | but I don't know how to assign in a terminal environment |
| 11:27.26 | cristian_c | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:27.57 | cristian_c | executing commands, I mean |
| 11:29.16 | cristian_c | any other ideas? |
| 11:29.41 | trek00 | cristian_c: i don't know if it possible, what are you using to configure this device input? |
| 11:30.09 | cristian_c | device input is properly detected, I need to assign commands to whatever input device |
| 11:30.24 | cristian_c | I don't know how to assign commands to keyboard for example |
| 11:30.47 | cristian_c | or whaterver input device, in a server environment (no desktop, no window managers) |
| 11:31.05 | trek00 | cristian_c: there is no binding from keyboard to command execution under the console |
| 11:31.21 | cristian_c | ok |
| 11:31.32 | trek00 | cristian_c: you can only bind ctrl-alt-del and alt-up under sysvinit |
| 11:31.34 | cristian_c | no workaround, I suppose |
| 11:31.50 | cristian_c | I underatand |
| 11:31.57 | trek00 | cristian_c: may be installing some daemon (but i don't know any) |
| 11:32.07 | cristian_c | I understand |
| 11:32.21 | cristian_c | btw, thanks for the answer |
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| 11:32.23 | trek00 | cristian_c: https://github.com/rbarrois/inputexec |
| 11:32.30 | cristian_c | :O |
| 11:32.30 | humpled | this seems like how synaptics mouse driver is not required anymore, we don't know the new way yet :þ |
| 11:33.14 | cristian_c | (just needing to turn off the server using a remote control) |
| 11:33.55 | trek00 | cristian_c: it seems the program you need |
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| 11:34.33 | cristian_c | inputexec appears to be cool, it talks explicitly of an headless system (as in my case) |
| 11:34.51 | cristian_c | trek00: yeah, it does |
| 11:35.49 | cristian_c | (at the moment I use ssh just only to turn off the server, but other tasks are completely automatized) |
| 11:36.27 | cristian_c | I use server as samba and chps server, usually) |
| 11:36.40 | cristian_c | *cups |
| 11:37.25 | cristian_c | trek00: btw, thanks |
| 11:37.33 | trek00 | :) |
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| 11:38.04 | cristian_c | I'll give a reoly/feedback if it will be successful |
| 11:38.11 | cristian_c | *reply |
| 11:38.45 | cristian_c | goes reading github |
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| 11:39.57 | GuiltySpark343 | I'm going to be rebuilding some packages and I want to add some custom flags. How do I go about adding global CFLAGS, CPPFLAGS and DNDEBUG? |
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| 11:40.19 | duude__ | o/ all |
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| 11:41.03 | duude__ | I'm having one issue. Do you guys know what could be the problem? When I connect my wifi adapter to my desktop, it turns on and then off again. Drivers are okay. |
| 11:41.09 | duude__ | Here's what dmesg said: |
| 11:41.20 | duude__ | ath: phy91: Failed to wakeup in 500us |
| 11:41.35 | duude__ | usb 3-3: ath9k_htc: USB layer deinitialized |
| 11:41.44 | duude__ | ath: phy91: Chip reset failed |
| 11:41.57 | duude__ | Seems like the wifi atheros chpi is borked? |
| 11:44.44 | trek00 | dude187: try sudo bash -c "echo none > /sys/class/leds/ath9k_htc-phy*/trigger" |
| 11:44.56 | trek00 | duude__: https://github.com/qca/open-ath9k-htc-firmware/wiki/usb-related-issues |
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| 11:50.46 | trek00 | GuiltySpark343: may be simply from the command line? CFLAGS=something dpkg-buildpackage |
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| 12:01.26 | GuiltySpark343 | trek00: will check |
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| 12:25.16 | __Myst___ | Is there any way to generate a snapshot of all my current packages + their versions so if something goes wrong during an `apt-get update` i can roll-back? |
| 12:26.51 | __Myst___ | upgrade* |
| 12:29.04 | trek00 | __Myst___: dpkg-query -W | tr '\t' '=' >package-list.txt |
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| 13:26.25 | TomasCZ | trek00, thanks, will look into that. |
| 13:26.48 | swift110 | good morning |
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| 14:04.29 | format_c | Hi |
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| 14:05.09 | format_c | Has the GNS3 package been discontinued? I only find it for stretch. |
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| 14:08.02 | LtL | ,v gns3 |
| 14:08.03 | judd | Package: gns3 on amd64 -- jessie/contrib: 0.8.7-2; stretch/contrib: 0.8.7-2 |
| 14:08.19 | LtL | format_c: I guess not. |
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| 14:09.15 | LtL | format_c: or rather it's not in buster, as for discontinued, don't know. |
| 14:09.49 | dvs | format_c, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=784871 |
| 14:09.50 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/784871 in gns3 (closed, sid, buster, bullseye): «gns3 version too old to be usable»; severity: serious; opened: 2015-05-09; last modified: 2019-08-30. |
| 14:10.09 | BCMM | anybody know why tracker.d.o is down? |
| 14:11.03 | format_c | Oh I just relize I've to upgrade Debian. |
| 14:11.07 | format_c | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:11.31 | format_c | But you see its not in buster. |
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| 14:12.45 | BCMM | format_c: stretch is still supported for a few months, so it's not like stuff is already vulnerable. but yeah, it's definitely a good idea to upgrade if you can. |
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| 14:27.58 | Guest32 | hello chk my nudes profile http://sexradar.ml/samanta94 |
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| 14:44.06 | lowin | Hello. can someone help me setup my network? Right now the networking service fails with "RTNETLINK answers: File exists", this my interfaces file: http://paste.debian.net/plain/1102008 can't seem to find the problem |
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| 14:44.34 | zamuro | !anyone |
| 14:44.34 | dpkg | Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>. |
| 14:45.09 | lowin | It used to work fine with ubuntu but I installed debian buster and copied over interfaces file but it doesn't work |
| 14:45.31 | lowin | zamuro, I did ask the real question btw.... |
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| 14:46.13 | trek00 | lowin: it works if you comment out the post-up script? |
| 14:46.16 | sleepingforest | what can i play with to adjust the sharpness of a font? |
| 14:46.59 | lowin | trek00, yeah |
| 14:47.45 | trek00 | sleepingforest: may be reconfiguring fontconfig with the correct hinting/filter and subpixel order |
| 14:48.27 | lowin | It also works with the post-up script if I manually set eth0 link down and flush addresses then restart networking service |
| 14:49.14 | trek00 | lowin: how do you flush addresses? |
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| 14:49.26 | lowin | trek00, ip addr flush eth0 |
| 14:49.43 | trek00 | lowin: ok, you can add this to pre-down script |
| 14:49.54 | lowin | I'll give it a try |
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| 14:51.27 | lowin | Well it doesn't work because ifdown thinks eth0 wasn't configured and doesn't do anything |
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| 14:52.14 | trek00 | lowin: well do it in the post-down :) |
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| 14:56.46 | lowin | can't seem to make it work. I think I have to restart the system since the interface is in unknown state as far as networking service is concerned |
| 14:56.46 | lowin | one question though, I need a separate post-up script for ipv6 configuration of same interface, right? |
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| 14:58.06 | trek00 | lowin: it seems to me not, but you should really test it |
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| 14:59.40 | lowin | I used to do everything in the same script when I was running ubuntu but on debian the ipv6 portion failed, I assume because the script was running before ipv6 was configured so it couldn't add the routes |
| 15:00.32 | lowin | perhaps I should just move the script to a cronjob or something |
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| 15:01.43 | trek00 | lowin: please don't, a cron job is not what you want |
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| 15:02.16 | lowin | Well I tried to do it the right way but it's becoming a headache |
| 15:02.21 | trek00 | lowin: try to move the post-up at the end of ipv6 part |
| 15:02.50 | trek00 | lowin: to reset the interface manually, use ifconfig eth0 down and flush ip |
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| 15:03.21 | lowin | Alright, I'll do it for the next time I rebooted my system. For now I just configured everything manually |
| 15:03.26 | lowin | thanks for your help |
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| 15:03.50 | trek00 | lowin: :) |
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| 15:33.02 | dos1 | something's wrong with http://debug.mirrors.debian.org/debian-debug/? is it some infra problem, or should one use http://deb.debian.org/debian-debug/ instead? |
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| 15:34.22 | trek00 | dos1: i get 404 even with http://deb.debian.org/debian-debug/ |
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| 15:36.16 | dos1 | hah, still works for me (redirects to https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian-debug/) |
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| 15:37.01 | trek00 | dos1: it should be a temporary issue |
| 15:37.09 | dos1 | but that doesn't help, as I'd have to change the url in CI and don't really want to do that unless it's necessary ;) |
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| 15:39.06 | trek00 | dos1: i think http://deb.debian.org/debian-debug/ is the correct url: https://wiki.debian.org/AutomaticDebugPackages |
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| 16:25.19 | titou | he |
| 16:25.39 | titou | on Raspbian 10 (based on debian) I'm trying to mount an NFS partition during boot but it tries to mount it whereas the network is not already configured.... |
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| 16:25.56 | titou | I know that it's a debian channel but maybe someone can tell me what could I do in order to get NFS mounting executed after network has been configured ? |
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| 16:46.19 | SpeedyG | layout save |
| 16:47.03 | SpeedyG | hm, buffer removed a / too many ^_^ sorry for that :) |
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| 17:04.13 | trek00 | titou: it seems a systemd issue, https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=136229 |
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| 17:14.36 | anglin | I am here today to warn you all of the true danger that faces our civilized society today |
| 17:14.40 | anglin | I am not talking about a few extremists and rogue psychopaths like iran and north korea. they are insignificant on the global stage, a mere distraction |
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| 17:14.47 | anglin | I am talking about a well-organized conspiracy that already controls most of the strongest nations on earth. |
| 17:14.54 | anglin | ever since the supposed occurence of the so-called holocaust was staged over 70 years ago, the jews have been largely unopposed by the western world even as they continue to build a shadow empire of world domination |
| 17:15.08 | anglin | Everyone is terrified of being labeled an anti-semite |
| 17:15.15 | ayekat | !ops |
| 17:15.15 | dpkg | Please invoke 'dpkg: ops $problem' to call the operators to deal with a specific problem. Misuse of this will lead to a ban. Operators can also be contacted in the #debian-ops channel. |
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| 17:29.04 | BCMM | this channel doesn't seem to post rules, so it's a bit hard to know when it's warranted... |
| 17:29.31 | BCMM | misuse will lead to a ban, and we've gotta just guess? |
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| 17:33.11 | humpled | are you confused about what is on topic in the debian channel? |
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| 18:26.06 | titou | trek00: thank you for your link. It seems it's not the same problem.. In my case the error is when mount is executed: network unreachable... I found a solution to mount NFS after network.online finished... but it's the same |
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| 18:26.34 | titou | in fact network-online.service stopped after network configuration but *before* DHCP client did its job... that's the trick! |
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| 18:28.24 | titou | I tried to customize the /etc/default/networking file (like adding: WAIT_ONLINE_METHOD=route) but it changes nothing.. |
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| 18:33.06 | trek00 | titou: may be the tip in the link to add a sleep could do the trick |
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| 18:33.54 | titou | maybe but it's ugly.. |
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| 18:34.41 | titou | the thing is that I don't understand how network configuration is performed... when i try to manually ifup/ifdown an interface I've got an error: "unknown interface wlan0" |
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| 18:38.04 | trek00 | titou: may be it is managed by systemd with other commands? |
| 18:40.08 | Batone | Hi everyone! Can someone help me, I do a table dump by "sfdisk -d" but when i restore it to another drive, the new drive gets the same disk identifier |
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| 18:40.22 | Batone | Is it normal? |
| 18:40.41 | Batone | I just new in linux |
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| 18:42.00 | karlpinc | titou: I don't really know systemd. Maybe a Requires= or After= or some such in the config will make it wait until after networking? |
| 18:42.42 | trek00 | Batone: yes, you actually duplicate the gpt with its unique identifier |
| 18:42.54 | karlpinc | Batone: Sounds normal to me. Like a backup and then a restore, you want the identifiers copied. |
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| 18:44.45 | titou | I dunno :( thanks for your answers |
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| 18:52.23 | Batone | Oh ok, then will this somehow affect my storage, should I change this disk identifier on the new disk? |
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| 18:53.18 | Batone | Will the system get confused when accessing these 2 disks with the same identifier? |
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| 18:57.43 | jhutchins | Batone: I would think it would 15:41 < kunningd> and you dont need the print in the end |
| 18:57.47 | jhutchins | 15:41 < kunningd> -name '*.pdf' |
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| 18:58.14 | jhutchins | Where did that come fro?m |
| 18:58.45 | jhutchins | Batone: What are you actually trying to do? |
| 18:58.47 | treeshateorcs | the kvmgt module doesn't seem to exist anywhere in debian |
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| 19:01.40 | Batone | 1 |
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| 19:04.41 | mtnman | helo |
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| 19:12.25 | Batone | jhutchins, I just practice creating a lot of the same discs, making RAID and scripts for it |
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| 19:13.17 | jhutchins | Where does one find the "Aptitude reference guide"? My searches keep returning tons of irrelevant results. |
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| 19:15.44 | Batone | jhutchins, And what did you mean "and you dont need the print in the end" ? I didn't understand |
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| 19:17.02 | trek00 | Batone: i think you could omit the uuid and label part by editing the dump file or using the -o option |
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| 19:20.14 | jhutchins | Batone: Something weird in the paste buffer, no idea. |
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| 19:21.53 | loren_1 | hello |
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| 19:33.00 | Batone | trek00, Oh thank you, it works! I deleted the identifier line, and when I restoring from the dump file, the system generated a new disk identifier |
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| 19:36.02 | trek00 | Batone: :) |
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| 19:54.14 | jhutchins | Batone: Ah, I was talking about the syntax for the "find" command. Long ago you needed to use the -print option to specify that find should list the output, these days that's the default. |
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| 20:09.56 | EdePopede | is there a tool which can tell my the bandwith i have AT THE MOMENT? |
| 20:10.22 | joepublic | the bandwidth between what and what? |
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| 20:11.45 | EdePopede | between some network item and an other in the end. in this case between my computer and the internet of course |
| 20:12.18 | VinAlencc404 | EdePopede: the only thing I can think is SpeedTest |
| 20:12.19 | EdePopede | the only way i know so far is to download a blob with random data offered by some sites |
| 20:12.46 | VinAlencc404 | You can type: $ pip install speedtest-cli |
| 20:12.48 | EdePopede | but that would mean blocking the connection for that time |
| 20:13.15 | EdePopede | i'm on debian, apt/apt-get/aptitude are the tools to install software |
| 20:13.56 | VinAlencc404 | Did you install PIP in your computer? |
| 20:14.13 | joepublic | you mean between your network interface and a specific remote interface, right? |
| 20:14.25 | EdePopede | lol, speedtest.net. some webcrap which traditionally needed flash |
| 20:14.40 | nkuttler | you can apt-get speedtest-cli.. |
| 20:14.55 | joepublic | you can apt-get pip for that matter. |
| 20:15.03 | EdePopede | joepublic: between this computer and i guess my provider's computer |
| 20:15.10 | nkuttler | there's no need for pip |
| 20:15.50 | EdePopede | i can't even get one single tv stream atm, which is riduculous. tested up to 6 streams in parallel, usually no problem |
| 20:16.11 | VinAlencc404 | You can try this link https://github.com/sivel/speedtest-cli |
| 20:16.16 | EdePopede | it would be nice to have something showing up if the connection decides to go on holiday |
| 20:16.18 | VinAlencc404 | to get SpeedTest |
| 20:16.55 | joepublic | that speedtest is really good, and tells you more than just bandwidth. it doesn't test to your isp (maybe your isp has a speed test tool?), but it tests to fast serverfarms and CDNs. |
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| 20:17.32 | EdePopede | VinAlencc404: speedtest sucks, it is the same bloated crap than all the other webservices. they don't do anything else than downloading some files, which is better done with wget/curl from some ftp server. less load and much more reliable. |
| 20:17.47 | velix | Does anything like Alpine's virtual packages exist for apt? |
| 20:17.54 | velix | It's a really nice feature. |
| 20:18.00 | joepublic | on that note, wget and curl do a pretty good job of telling you your speed. |
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| 20:19.07 | EdePopede | i also wouldn't trust the ISP's tool, some of them have been found out to cheat. technically they *are* better (don't depend on routing into other networks), but you never know how trustworthy they are |
| 20:19.36 | joepublic | well, if your connection to them is great but their connection to the next hop sucks, they could conceal a problem |
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| 20:19.49 | CombatVet | is there a checkinstall alternative? |
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| 20:20.28 | EdePopede | iirc an IT student was wondering about bad download rates, started a test in parallel and suddenly everything was fine. so he set up a server and did some tests. result: if you do something that looks like a speedtest, they give you more bandwith. |
| 20:20.31 | joepublic | I have heard you can apt download sources and build packages with them. That's pretty similar. |
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| 21:43.11 | shibboleth | say you've got another distro on a diff partition. anyone have a setup that lets them run that install virtualized from within the primary os? |
| 21:43.27 | shibboleth | kinda like how vmware fusion lets you run the boot camp windows install from inside macos? |
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| 22:23.08 | deego | https://pastebin.com/fPkYgtHE - my apt policy nano and preferences file. I am on stretch. Added buster to sources. Yet, apt install nano says: "nano is already the newest version (2.7.4-1)." Isn't buster "stable" and thus, nano should upgrade? |
| 22:24.17 | deego | (removing preferences allows all upgrades) |
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| 22:38.06 | dvs | deego, but you have both buster and stretch in your sources.list |
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| 22:39.35 | deego | dvs: bremner solved my problem. i was trying to pin it to 1500, not 150, and missed a 0. |
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| 22:47.45 | teclo- | hello, what's again the meta-package for KDE, the one you get by selecting KDE in tasksel ? kde-desktop ? |
| 22:49.18 | dvs | ,v kde-standard |
| 22:49.19 | judd | Package: kde-standard on amd64 -- jessie: 5:84; stretch: 5:92; buster: 5:102; bullseye: 5:104; sid: 5:104 |
| 22:49.56 | dvs | teclo-, task-kde-desktop |
| 22:50.14 | teclo- | dvs: thanks alot |
| 22:50.22 | dvs | np |
| 22:51.10 | teclo- | but... amarok isn't in there ? |
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| 23:01.14 | LtL | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=921194 |
| 23:01.15 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/921194 in amarok (closed, patch): «amarok: Amarok depends on libmariadbd18, which doesn't exist any longer»; severity: serious; opened: 2019-02-02; last modified: 2019-09-04. |
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| 23:14.17 | hairybutt | i has a HAIRY BUTT |
| 23:14.19 | hairybutt | <PROTECTED> |
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| 23:58.42 | brutser | hi all! i need to install a small debian setup on an SD card, any recommendations from you experts? i know read and especially write is not very fast to SD, i will make sure to only install packages that are needed of course, but any recommendations? |
| 23:59.20 | brutser | zswap or zram, any other utility that would be good? |
| 23:59.28 | brutser | any configurations? |