| 00:00.05 | Zathras | read the lines above paragraph title "Generating encrypted passwords" |
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| 00:00.48 | Zathras | I do not have a single manual. The online docs and the docs in /usr/share/doc should be enough |
| 00:01.01 | Zathras | if not, reconsider running your own IMAP server |
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| 00:01.48 | Zathras | maintaining your own mailserver requires a lot of knowledge and maintenance |
| 00:02.29 | Zathras | or use an of the shelve thing packed in docker or something |
| 00:03.05 | Zathras | *off the shelf |
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| 00:03.32 | Zathras | definitely time to call it a night |
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| 00:57.18 | intruder01 | I just dist-upgraded from jessie to buster without a itch |
| 00:57.28 | intruder01 | yay |
| 00:57.40 | dvs | but not throuch stretech? |
| 00:57.50 | intruder01 | no |
| 00:57.57 | intruder01 | i got lazy in the last few years |
| 00:58.02 | intruder01 | and I forgot |
| 00:58.18 | dvs | lucky |
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| 01:07.42 | oxek | I am doing a new installation of debian and noticed in the generated /etc/crypttab that the luks volume is mounted with the discard option which is not default for cryptsetup and is advised against due to security issues |
| 01:07.51 | oxek | why is debian choosing this insecure default? |
| 01:08.07 | oxek | that goes against the recommendations from the cryptsetup developers |
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| 01:11.09 | skyline | @oxek What flavor of Debian are you running? |
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| 01:11.32 | skyline | And are you running a dual boot? |
| 01:11.42 | jcrypt | I think the usage of the term "insecure" is quite a bit overdramatic in this case. |
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| 01:12.44 | oxek | skyline: stable |
| 01:12.50 | oxek | no dual boot |
| 01:12.56 | oxek | completely wiped hdd |
| 01:13.19 | oxek | selected the 'guided encrypted lvm' option in partitioning |
| 01:14.00 | oxek | jcrypt: the cryptsetup developers must have a good reason for calling it insecure |
| 01:14.06 | jcrypt | They didn't call it insecure. |
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| 01:14.42 | skyline | Its been my experience that with a fresh install you can encrypt the whole hdd while you are installing. I think in this process Debian will also allow you to set up LVM at this point to. Had you seen this option when you installed? |
| 01:15.21 | skyline | i see it now |
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| 01:16.34 | jcrypt | oxek: Security solutions, especially cryptographic ones, aren't so simple as "secure" and "insecure." They can exhibit a weakness that, while a weakness in the strictest sense, doesn't actually diminish the effectiveness of the solution in any real way. |
| 01:17.08 | annadane | intruder01, yeah, that's not supported, you need to upgrade releases one at a time, now your machine may or may not work properly |
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| 01:18.10 | jcrypt | In this case, enabling discard can indicate which blocks on the SSD are allocated/used, and which are not. That does nothing for a hypothetical adversary, as there's still the enormous problem of breaking the encryption applied to the data. |
| 01:18.11 | oxek | jcrypt: ok, probably, I am not an expert, point remains that cryptsetup developers advise against the use of discard option and debian uses it by default |
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| 01:19.01 | jcrypt | oxek: This is my area of professional focus. The developers delve into detail here. https://www.saout.de/pipermail/dm-crypt/2012-April/002420.html |
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| 01:19.50 | dvs | Marking every block used on an SSD sounds like a bad idea. |
| 01:20.39 | jcrypt | oxek: Consider whether or not this actually matters to you in a real world sense. It is overwhelmingly likely that it does not. As for why Debian defaults to it? Probably to avoid absolutely slaughtering your SSD's performance and write longevity. |
| 01:21.06 | jcrypt | Which -are- quantifiable real-world impacts. |
| 01:21.45 | jcrypt | oxek: man 5 crypttab |
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| 01:23.05 | oxek | write longevity is not a concern for me because tests show that I will never actually be able to kill the ssd, tests also show that write performance is not affected on modern ssds |
| 01:23.59 | dvs | ???? |
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| 01:24.05 | jcrypt | Maybe you believe that, though I will advise you that, if those are the conclusions drawn, I wouldn't trust those testers to tell me when my toast is finished. |
| 01:25.00 | jcrypt | It is entirely possible to burn out an SSD, even rapidly, depending on what it's doing. As for "performance isn't affected," that conflicts with how SSDs function at all. |
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| 01:28.10 | oxek | https://techreport.com/review/24841/introducing-the-ssd-endurance-experiment/ |
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| 01:30.12 | jcrypt | And? Read the updates the bottom, where they talk about failures. |
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| 01:30.35 | jcrypt | A few hundred TB sounds like a lot. Use a system a lot, and you'll find out that it's less than you think. |
| 01:30.48 | *** join/#debian LordOfChaos (~you_suck@192.145.127.21) |
| 01:30.52 | LordOfChaos | hello |
| 01:31.01 | LordOfChaos | i am immune to all forms of banning. |
| 01:31.07 | LordOfChaos | i am here to crapflood the channel |
| 01:31.07 | oxek | top SSD from 2015 survived 2.4PB, I have a top SSD from 2019... |
| 01:31.16 | LordOfChaos | all hail my hairy butt |
| 01:31.20 | LordOfChaos | long live king hitler |
| 01:31.21 | oxek | I am not gonna reach 2.4PB |
| 01:31.50 | jcrypt | oxek: And? |
| 01:32.02 | jcrypt | oxek: You could buy a new SSD tomorrow and have it fail after 50 TB. |
| 01:32.26 | jcrypt | Anyway, this is venturing off of the original topic. |
| 01:32.28 | LordOfChaos | oxek, jcrypt: are you the satanic jews? |
| 01:32.28 | oxek | pointing out that I don't care about discard option and its effect on longevity of SSDs |
| 01:33.03 | jcrypt | oxek: And that's you. Debian made a default choice balancing things that most people care about and a real-world risk assessment. And in my professional opinion, they made the right decision. |
| 01:33.07 | *** join/#debian Stoot (5a35c996@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.90.53.201.150) |
| 01:33.19 | LordOfChaos | Stoot: welcome to Niggerland |
| 01:33.28 | *** mode/#debian [+o somiaj] by ChanServ |
| 01:33.29 | *** mode/#debian [+b *!*@192.145.127.21] by somiaj |
| 01:33.29 | *** kick/#debian [LordOfChaos!~jaimos@unaffiliated/somiaj] by somiaj (you should know better) |
| 01:33.29 | *** mode/#debian [-o somiaj] by somiaj |
| 01:34.03 | oxek | in my professional opinion there has been more fearmongering than actual evidence regarding SSDs dying from too early from too many writes |
| 01:34.08 | oxek | SSDs last |
| 01:34.25 | Stoot | somiaj yeah that was pretty weird |
| 01:34.41 | oxek | and certainly survive more writes than a spinning HDD |
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| 01:35.13 | jcrypt | oxek: Mechanical hard drives do not have a write cycle limitation at all. |
| 01:35.38 | somiaj | Stoot: It is unforuntally too common in a popular channel like this. |
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| 01:36.14 | somiaj | oxek: it was far more a problem the first generation of SSDs, after about a year, SSDs got better and contained more backup memeory to self correct. |
| 01:36.16 | oxek | jcrypt: during the time required for a HDD to reach 2.4PB of writes it would likely die of mechanical issues |
| 01:36.21 | Stoot | somiaj I can't help that I'm just too sexy for my shirt, it happens me all day long as well ;) |
| 01:36.26 | dvs | oxek, Tell that to Tesla |
| 01:36.47 | Stoot | told Tesla |
| 01:36.58 | jcrypt | oxek: Debian's choice on enabling discard by default aligns quite well with statements from the dm-crypt developers. Just because it's not 'omg maximum security' doesn't make it the wrong decision or insecure. |
| 01:37.28 | jcrypt | oxek: "It would likely" is an assumption on your part. |
| 01:37.58 | jcrypt | oxek: You have the explanation you sought. Have a pleasant weekend. |
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| 01:43.03 | dvs | can't read jcryptfs posts anymore |
| 01:43.21 | jcryptfs | has discard, so you can tell when he's silent at least |
| 01:43.31 | dvs | heh |
| 01:45.51 | *** join/#debian LordOfChaos (~you_suck@142.93.169.136) |
| 01:45.53 | LordOfChaos | hello |
| 01:46.13 | dvs | yo |
| 01:46.32 | LordOfChaos | Ladies and gentlemen (and trannies and jew puppets), allow me to demonstrate the superweapon of disruptive behavior on IRC |
| 01:46.41 | *** join/#debian michaelni (~michael@213-47-68-29.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) |
| 01:46.59 | LordOfChaos | The secret is in how clients keep text files to log messages |
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| 01:47.24 | LordOfChaos | so pasting the standard antivirus test string in the channel makes many antiviruses freak out about said logfile |
| 01:47.26 | LordOfChaos | X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H |
| 01:47.29 | LordOfChaos | like that |
| 01:47.35 | LordOfChaos | its in your logs now |
| 01:47.38 | *** join/#debian jcryptfs (~jcryptfs@dax.jcryptfs.com) |
| 01:47.42 | LordOfChaos | so your logs now function as a fake virus |
| 01:47.45 | LordOfChaos | all hail hitler |
| 01:47.53 | LordOfChaos | chaos is victorious |
| 01:48.05 | annadane | !ops ^ |
| 01:48.05 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: annadane complains about a problem (see above) |
| 01:48.10 | LordOfChaos | !ops |
| 01:48.10 | dpkg | Please invoke 'dpkg: ops $problem' to call the operators to deal with a specific problem. Misuse of this will lead to a ban. Operators can also be contacted in the #debian-ops channel. |
| 01:48.22 | LordOfChaos | !ops annadane is sexually harassing my penis |
| 01:48.23 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: lordofchaos complains about a problem (see above) |
| 01:48.25 | LordOfChaos | !ops annadane is sexually harassing my penis |
| 01:48.26 | *** mode/#debian [+q *!*@142.93.169.136] by ChanServ |
| 01:48.27 | melpy | this is a channel for debian users though |
| 01:49.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1483] by debhelper |
| 01:49.28 | *** mode/#debian [+o somiaj] by ChanServ |
| 01:49.29 | *** mode/#debian [+b *!*@142.93.169.136] by somiaj |
| 01:49.29 | *** kick/#debian [LordOfChaos!~jaimos@unaffiliated/somiaj] by somiaj (you should know better) |
| 01:49.29 | *** mode/#debian [-o somiaj] by somiaj |
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| 01:50.38 | metbsd | is there a way to copy an entire debian to another hard drive/computer |
| 01:50.45 | *** join/#debian telliksemoh (~SomeGuy@cpe-45-50-60-183.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 01:50.49 | metbsd | like ghost copy |
| 01:50.51 | dvs | clonezilla? |
| 01:50.57 | metbsd | yes like that |
| 01:51.05 | metbsd | clonezilla can clone debian? |
| 01:51.10 | dvs | yes |
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| 01:53.11 | somiaj | various ways, depends on what you want to copy, you can just copy the file system with cp -a, then make it bootable |
| 01:53.18 | somiaj | you could also clone the packages, but do a fresh install, copy data |
| 01:53.26 | somiaj | !aptitude clone |
| 01:53.27 | dpkg | To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>. |
| 01:53.38 | *** join/#debian c010r (~mike@ip70-160-164-37.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 01:54.06 | c010r | hey fellas :) |
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| 01:55.38 | c010r | what is the BEST tool on debian, to measure the disk usage of a given direectory and all of its contents? (most ppl seem to say "du" or "df". i tend to agree, but i figured i would get ya'll's input on the matter |
| 01:55.45 | c010r | ) |
| 01:55.56 | somiaj | du for a file tree, df for a full file system |
| 01:56.10 | c010r | wow thx that was fast, somiaj |
| 01:56.41 | annadane | !beer somiaj |
| 01:56.42 | dpkg | pulls out a fine Gulden Drak for somiaj |
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| 01:57.05 | c010r | *gives somiaj an internet* so not to argue or anything, but how does df stac up against, say... GParted or Caja File Browser? |
| 01:57.11 | somiaj | !best |
| 01:57.11 | dpkg | Best for what? Please define what you mean by "best". Gloria Gaynor! Tina Turner! Aretha Franklin! Men without Hats! Women without Hats! Men at Work! Women at Play! Anyone for Tennis! |
| 01:57.55 | somiaj | ^^ also, but most often if there is a core tool, that tool just ends up being used, there maybe other tools for specific use that are better, but I would suggest du or df depending on if it is the full filesystem or not |
| 01:58.02 | c010r | (stack up in terms of precision and/or inclusivity)? |
| 01:58.35 | somiaj | Disk ussage precision is a bit fuzzy with any tool, due to block size. |
| 01:58.47 | c010r | somiaj: well, it IS the full filesystem (at least, all of the FILES AND DIRECTORIES on it, anyway!) |
| 01:58.48 | annadane | i think GUIs can be too much abstraction for simple things sometimes |
| 01:59.29 | annadane | start with the problem you want to solve then find the simplest solution for it and if you prefer something less simple then explore other optons |
| 01:59.45 | somiaj | c010r: still, it counts block size, not actual file size, and copying from one file system to another due to fragments and block size, the same data may take up more or less space. |
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| 02:00.30 | c010r | i understand the differece between filesize and disk usage. what im trying to do: find out the *TRUE* amount of hard drive space that's being used by my "Videos" partition. righ now, du and df BOTH say 5.4 Gigs (gigabits or gigabytes?) |
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| 02:01.15 | c010r | i agree with you annadane, WRT GUIS being for "wimps" |
| 02:01.21 | jcryptfs | disk usage is always reported in bytes. |
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| 02:01.56 | c010r | jcryptfs: by du and df? or do u mean by nearly EVERY disk-space tool? |
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| 02:02.45 | jcryptfs | Every disk space tool is going to report disk usage/capacity in some quantity of bytes, whether kilo, mega, giga, tera, etc. |
| 02:02.55 | somiaj | well df -h will use the 1024 per kilo/mega/giga conversion to make it more readable |
| 02:03.01 | annadane | gparted and caja are ok... but they do 90,000 other things, and pull in dependencies... it's up to you but if you have a simple problem you may want a simple solution |
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| 02:04.45 | *** join/#debian dipshit_ (~dipshit@109.123.74.97) |
| 02:04.55 | dipshit_ | SUCK MY HAIRY DONG |
| 02:05.01 | dipshit_ | LOLOLOL FUCK FUCK FUCK |
| 02:05.06 | *** mode/#debian [+o somiaj] by ChanServ |
| 02:05.06 | *** mode/#debian [+b *!*@109.123.74.97] by somiaj |
| 02:05.06 | *** kick/#debian [dipshit_!~jaimos@unaffiliated/somiaj] by somiaj (you should know better) |
| 02:05.07 | *** mode/#debian [-o somiaj] by somiaj |
| 02:07.11 | c010r | annadane: of COURSE. |
| 02:07.26 | c010r | dipshit: lol. idiot |
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| 02:07.45 | annadane | sorry if you're annoyed with me, i tend to wax philosophic too much |
| 02:08.05 | c010r | annadane: no, im not mad. im agreeing with u. :) |
| 02:08.16 | annadane | oh, okay. tone is hard to gauge over the internet |
| 02:08.28 | c010r | hence the smiley. |
| 02:08.33 | c010r | :) |
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| 02:08.42 | mutante | that's what i thought about dipshit's comment |
| 02:09.53 | c010r | ok thx gaiz. im gonna trust "df". |
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| 02:10.16 | c010r | i just manpaged it and infopaged it. |
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| 02:11.05 | c010r | im learning a new linux command like every few minutes. |
| 02:11.31 | c010r | (25 days of experience with linux and counting...) |
| 02:12.11 | c010r | i just apt-get installed timeshift, in case i screw something up again. i will. :) |
| 02:12.30 | mutante | sudo apt-get install ddate ; while true; do ddate +%. ; sleep 2; done |
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| 02:12.49 | mutante | that's one that always surprises |
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| 02:20.08 | LordOfChaos | fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuc |
| 02:20.11 | LordOfChaos | X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H |
| 02:20.15 | LordOfChaos | fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuc |
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| 02:22.46 | LordOfChaos | the jew tools of freenode keep trying to ban me |
| 02:22.48 | LordOfChaos | lol |
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| 02:46.27 | fr0g | is there something like cp which will delete partially copied files in case of IO errors? pulling some decades old music off of scratched up CDRs that stayed in the car in the late 90s and early 00s. Lol |
| 02:48.52 | somiaj | fr0g: look at rsync, it might have said options |
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| 02:52.13 | fr0g | It looks like rsync --gnore-errors might be it, but the documentaton i'm finding seems to imply it's part of --delete which is undesirable-ish. I can i guess make an incoming folder and work it that way if i must. ;) |
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| 02:59.13 | somiaj | yea, rsync has lots of features, it should be able to do what you want, but I've never used it for that purpose. |
| 02:59.48 | bernyrd | what is the best wayto get updated amdgpu drivers |
| 03:00.42 | somiaj | bernyrd: how updated, and what version of debain do you run? |
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| 03:01.50 | bernyrd | Deb 10, need drivers for Navi 10/RTX 5700 XT |
| 03:02.21 | somiaj | the ones in the debian kernel don't come, have you installed firmware-amd-graphics? |
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| 03:02.45 | somiaj | I mean don't work, the buster kernel is fairly new, it should support most cards (I don't know amd well enough to know how bleeding edge that card is) |
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| 03:03.39 | bernyrd | yeah I have firmware-amd-graphics |
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| 03:04.04 | bernyrd | card shows up in lspci ok, and seems to turn on fans after booting... and doing something internally |
| 03:04.37 | bernyrd | I'm having minor issues with my mobo and NOT using the BMC's 2d framebuffer but the card should still be present, and if the drivers load respond to e.g. glxinfo |
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| 03:05.08 | somiaj | bernyrd: have you checked 'demsg | grep amdgpu' and the Xorg.0.log file? |
| 03:05.11 | abspython_ | I'm having issue installing Debian Buster in my laptop having Radeon graphics card. I tried installing using Debian non free iso. What are the possible solution? I can still install Arch, Linux mint in the laptop. |
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| 03:05.45 | somiaj | abspython_: is the problem with the graphical installer, maybe just use the text based installer. I think the firwmare iamge only contains network firmware, not gpu firmware. |
| 03:06.12 | bernyrd | somiaj: yeah I get "amd kernel modesetting enabled" but I think that is after I modprobed it in |
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| 03:06.49 | abspython_ | somiaj: thanks for the quick response. I will try it tonight. Thanks... |
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| 03:08.02 | somiaj | bernyrd: hmm, a quick google search seems to suggest that the card you have is bleeding edge, it might take a bit of work to get working in debian. |
| 03:08.06 | somiaj | ,kernels |
| 03:08.07 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.3.0-trunk-686-pae (5.3.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.2.0-3-686 (5.2.17-1); bullseye: 5.2.0-3-686 (5.2.17-1); buster-backports: 5.2.0-0.bpo.3-686-pae (5.2.17-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-6-686 (4.19.67-2+deb10u1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.19.67-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-11-686-pae (4.9.189-3+deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 03:08.08 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.11-686-pae (4.9.189-3+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
| 03:08.31 | somiaj | bernyrd: you might find the kernel from buster-backports |
| 03:08.37 | somiaj | ,v firmware-amd-graphics |
| 03:08.38 | judd | Package: firmware-amd-graphics on amd64 -- jessie-security/non-free: 20161130-5~deb8u1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20190717-2~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20190717-2; sid/non-free: 20190717-2 |
| 03:08.48 | somiaj | bernyrd: and the firmware from buster backports could help. |
| 03:08.56 | somiaj | ,v xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu |
| 03:08.57 | judd | Package: xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu on amd64 -- stretch: 1.2.0-1+b1; buster: 18.1.99+git20190207-1; bullseye: 19.0.1-1; sid: 19.0.1-1 |
| 03:09.04 | bernyrd | yeah the 20190717 update I think corresponds to release of this card |
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| 03:09.30 | somiaj | seems the rest of the stack like xorg driver and mesa isn't avaialbe, but often the kernel is enough, so see if the backport kernel + firmware give you any more sucess. |
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| 03:10.39 | skyline | I'm guessing that the subject matter pertains to a Graphics Card? |
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| 03:12.03 | somiaj | skyline: yea, amdgpu drivers for a 5700 XT |
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| 03:13.48 | skyline | Nice! |
| 03:18.07 | bernyrd | somiaj: that was good advice but I'm not sure it was enough |
| 03:18.11 | bernyrd | unsure how to really test |
| 03:18.16 | bernyrd | no dmesg relating to amdgpu |
| 03:18.57 | somiaj | bernyrd: and no module loaded, 'lsmod | grep amdgpu' |
| 03:19.05 | somiaj | did you reboot on the new kernel + firmware? |
| 03:19.10 | bernyrd | got the backports version of amd firmware and the kernel |
| 03:19.10 | bernyrd | yeah |
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| 03:19.14 | bernyrd | from boot, no module loaded |
| 03:19.41 | somiaj | you could try to force, 'modprobe amdgpu' and then might see some errors, but it could be the kernel+firmware isn't new enough in debian yet for that card |
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| 03:20.41 | bernyrd | modprobing it works with no errors but inconclusive results w.r.t. card being working |
| 03:21.38 | bernyrd | complicating things, this is ppc64le machine, and has internal BMC with framebuffer. issues turning it off. but as I said I should be able to enumerate card -- if driver works -- using some kind of opengl command |
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| 03:29.15 | bernyrd | well if anyone can poke anyone please do |
| 03:29.19 | bernyrd | until then I try GPU passthrough |
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| 04:09.25 | HeDidIt | HI there |
| 04:10.05 | HeDidIt | Dr. Xxxxxx mutilated my sexual organs: https://www.bitchute.com/video/Wyw5hoZf8sAP/ |
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| 04:21.33 | bernyrd | I've got an amusing issue with qemu-system |
| 04:21.41 | bernyrd | I have no emulated keyboard device? |
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| 06:07.04 | jvava | filesystem maybe has big bug |
| 06:07.13 | AndroUser | Hi all I need help |
| 06:07.17 | jvava | a file keep lost |
| 06:07.54 | jvava | I download a file then it is lost, so I download again and unzip to a folder, then, it lost again. |
| 06:08.19 | AndroUser | I did installed kali Linux on my asus rog scar 3 but I think maybe because of fn functions maybe because of something I cannot understand the wifi icon is dissapering and coming next second back and this is repeating all the time what to do? |
| 06:08.38 | diogenes_ | jvava, that's impossible. |
| 06:08.49 | jvava | diogenes_, it did |
| 06:09.07 | jvava | about 380M size |
| 06:09.08 | diogenes_ | !kali |
| 06:09.08 | dpkg | Kali Linux (http://www.kali.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on chat.freenode.net or http://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian>, and read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html |
| 06:09.32 | jvava | yesterday I downloaded then go home, this morning it lost |
| 06:09.42 | AndroUser | I know but the app not let me join to kali room it says someone must be invite to the channel |
| 06:09.45 | diogenes_ | jvava, firefox? |
| 06:09.54 | jvava | diogenes_, yes |
| 06:10.20 | diogenes_ | jvava, look in downloads history. |
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| 06:10.55 | jvava | in recycle box, I did delete the same name file because download failed, but at last I download it successfully |
| 06:11.10 | AndroUser | It won't let me join to kali Linux what is the name of that channel maybe I put wrong |
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| 06:11.22 | jvava | downloads history ever display successly, but now it say removed |
| 06:12.02 | diogenes_ | jvava, so it was removed, the question is by who. |
| 06:12.07 | jvava | any idea? I don't know there a application do file remove automatically |
| 06:12.15 | jvava | yes, diogenes_ |
| 06:12.20 | jvava | it is not me |
| 06:12.32 | AndroUser | I did installed kali Linux on my asus rog scar 3 but I think maybe because of fn functions maybe because of something I cannot understand the wifi icon is dissapering and coming next second back and this is repeating all the time what to do? |
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| 06:13.57 | jvava | bleachbit? |
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| 06:14.17 | diogenes_ | jvava, does anybody else can theoretically have access to this pc? |
| 06:14.36 | jvava | should no one, diogenes_ |
| 06:15.01 | jvava | how can I verify that |
| 06:16.16 | jvava | I think my box is not interesting to hacker, and it sit in out inner network |
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| 06:17.42 | diogenes_ | is Downloads a shared folder on your network? |
| 06:18.02 | jvava | no, it is my private disk |
| 06:19.12 | jvava | I feel it is a bug |
| 06:19.19 | aaapicaaa | <aaapicaaa>:<deneme> |
| 06:19.36 | aaapicaaa | How to login to this sh** man |
| 06:19.53 | aaapicaaa | I just want to ask one question on kali Linux room |
| 06:20.13 | diogenes_ | as of right now you can try 2 things, redownload the file and also give a local search for the file name. |
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| 06:21.18 | jvava | diogenes_, I download it with vpn connection, that is a free vpn, can anyone come across that connectoin? |
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| 06:22.23 | jvava | it is a big file, take me half hour to download, I believe it will be remove still if I download again |
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| 06:24.09 | Hestben | Hi guys! Anyone else using exim to relay mails using a google account with an app password? I just suddenly got error messages sending mail that way two days ago. |
| 06:24.17 | diogenes_ | vpn is meant for safety and anonimity but it depends on the vpn service. |
| 06:24.26 | jvava | if vpn is culprit, ... , is vpn so horrible? |
| 06:24.55 | jvava | a free vpn, you know, I am behind a great wall |
| 06:26.15 | diogenes_ | jvava, then your internet provider can monitor everything. |
| 06:27.13 | jvava | with vpn, I guess they can see nothing, though they know there is a vpn traffic |
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| 06:33.31 | jvava | the biggest possibility is that recycle bin, say, I move file a into recycle bin, then download a at the same position, then a is removed. |
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| 06:34.38 | jvava | I will have a try |
| 06:35.14 | herzlichweise | wget --continue |
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| 06:52.08 | herzlichweise | ".... powered by Debian" - is that illegal to state under certain circumstanzes? |
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| 06:57.16 | boktan | Hello I did installed kali Linux on my asus rog scar 3 kali but I think maybe because of fn functions maybe because of something I cannot understand the wifi icon is dissapering and coming next second back and this is repeating all the time what to do with it? |
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| 06:59.44 | ratrace | herzlichweise: for example? |
| 07:00.19 | ratrace | !tell boktan about kali |
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| 07:23.06 | hk239 | Hmm trying to get this printer HP laserjet MFP M28a working in debian 10.1 buster again |
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| 07:23.56 | hk239 | it doesn't seem to work with the standard hplip included by default, and the driver bundle found at an unofficial link from HP website, doesn't successfully install because of dependencies which it fails to acquire |
| 07:24.13 | hk239 | is there some alternative approach to installing the printer? Or something like that? |
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| 07:29.24 | hk239 | hmm according to developers.hp.com the min. required hplip version is 3.18.4 which is lower than the version installed with buster by default |
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| 07:31.43 | at0m | ,v hplip |
| 07:31.44 | judd | Package: hplip on amd64 -- jessie: 3.14.6-1+deb8u1; stretch: 3.16.11+repack0-3; stretch-backports: 3.18.12+dfsg0-2~bpo9+1; buster: 3.18.12+dfsg0-2; bullseye: 3.19.8+dfsg0-7; sid: 3.19.8+dfsg0-7+b1; experimental: 3.19.8+dfsg0-7+exp0 |
| 07:35.08 | hk239 | okay I made some progress, and installed the printer using hp toolbox |
| 07:35.29 | hk239 | but upon attempting to print it asks for instalation of 'driver plug-in' |
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| 07:35.49 | hk239 | *installation |
| 07:36.26 | hk239 | however hp website says there is no driver plug-in for this model |
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| 07:42.04 | hk239 | hmm I installed the plug-in using the hp thing, however it failed to confirm some sort of a key, and also required root password to complete |
| 07:42.15 | hk239 | after that the device seems to be listed in hp device manager, |
| 07:42.30 | hk239 | but when printing something, it says job completed, although the printer actually didn't print anything |
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| 07:45.10 | schnho | l |
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| 07:47.54 | hk239 | hmm |
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| 07:52.27 | aicra | herzlichweise - I can think of circumstances you would not say that |
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| 07:53.02 | herzlichweise | aicra: tell me :) |
| 07:53.05 | aicra | herzlichweise: when it's not loaded with Debian |
| 07:53.07 | aicra | lol |
| 07:53.12 | herzlichweise | heh |
| 07:53.14 | aicra | Let me look into it |
| 07:53.24 | aicra | I'm kinda trademark/copyright geek |
| 07:53.44 | herzlichweise | does it have to do with the social contract? |
| 07:53.55 | aicra | Well, what country |
| 07:54.00 | herzlichweise | germany |
| 07:54.07 | aicra | commercial purposes? |
| 07:54.15 | herzlichweise | none, only hobby |
| 07:54.23 | aicra | pshaw |
| 07:54.30 | aicra | Put it on a billboard |
| 07:54.32 | aicra | lol |
| 07:54.37 | herzlichweise | :D |
| 07:54.58 | aicra | write it in letters in a small plane |
| 07:55.00 | ratrace | uhm.... why would commercial purposes matter |
| 07:55.14 | aicra | They have the Debian trademark |
| 07:55.19 | aicra | they have policies |
| 07:55.31 | ratrace | so? you're not violating it by saying your computing devices is powered by Debian. |
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| 07:55.41 | ratrace | you would if you created.... something else and called it Debian |
| 07:55.52 | herzlichweise | thats not planned |
| 07:56.02 | ratrace | the only way "powered by debian" would be illegal is if you're in a jurisdiction where "stating you're powered by debian" is illegal lol |
| 07:56.05 | aicra | You can use Debian trademarks to make true factual statements about Debian or communicate compatibility with your product truthfully. |
| 07:56.36 | aicra | done |
| 07:57.10 | ratrace | so you install centos and state you're powered by debian |
| 07:57.24 | ratrace | and now you have TWO hitmen on your tail :) |
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| 07:57.38 | aicra | but herzlichweise: the device must be consistantly on... "powered" otherwise a lawyer could argue it ;) |
| 07:57.56 | herzlichweise | :D |
| 07:58.00 | ratrace | does spilling redbull on the case count? :) |
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| 07:58.23 | aicra | try 5 hour energy... it has energy i the name |
| 07:58.31 | aicra | s/i/in |
| 07:59.30 | aicra | and I don't think "illegal" so much as pursuable by law |
| 07:59.41 | aicra | Has Debian ever pursued someone though? |
| 07:59.47 | aicra | idk |
| 07:59.52 | herzlichweise | the wording of me was a bit strange, yeah |
| 08:00.11 | aicra | I wonder if Debian would - pursue someone |
| 08:00.32 | aicra | They are rejecting packages |
| 08:00.40 | aicra | not for the reasons they used to hahahaha |
| 08:00.59 | herzlichweise | i am in constant fear that the debian project leader calls me and says i need to switch away from debian |
| 08:01.11 | aicra | So, I am a deb dev |
| 08:01.20 | aicra | and I feel threatened all the time |
| 08:01.26 | herzlichweise | yeah |
| 08:01.31 | aicra | but I don't submit to the repos... so :P |
| 08:01.54 | aicra | why.. so they won't update a package of mine until a bug issue |
| 08:02.07 | herzlichweise | well |
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| 08:02.13 | aicra | I don't do bug driven dev... I keep all my bugs in a row |
| 08:02.23 | herzlichweise | they could include a package in my daily updates that creates the user account "exit" |
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| 08:02.54 | herzlichweise | i would run around in panic because i got hacked |
| 08:03.17 | aicra | hey. I got this zombie... |
| 08:04.47 | aicra | well at least they did put a "more recent version" of xscreensaver ... not after that rude interaction on the mailing list OMFG |
| 08:05.00 | herzlichweise | doh :( |
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| 08:05.44 | aicra | when I compiled Xscreensaver to get the most recent... compiled in C... it had one c++ comment and failed. Guess I have to upgrade to C++ now |
| 08:05.47 | aicra | lol |
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| 08:06.05 | herzlichweise | :D do it |
| 08:06.13 | useretail | hi, is there a tool that lists all deps for a deb file? |
| 08:06.21 | aicra | aptitude? |
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| 08:06.33 | aicra | open the deb and look at the control file |
| 08:07.16 | herzlichweise | useretail: apt-cache depends? |
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| 08:09.50 | aicra | ouch... You cannot use Debian trademarks in a domain name, with or without commercial intent |
| 08:10.01 | aicra | challenge accepted |
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| 08:10.44 | rendar | easy way to update cmake to the latest version? or, a newer version btw? otherwise i CAN'T WORK on debian |
| 08:11.45 | aicra | apt install cmake? |
| 08:11.53 | rendar | it installs cmake 3.7 |
| 08:11.59 | aicra | what do you need |
| 08:11.59 | rendar | which is old |
| 08:12.02 | rendar | 3.13 |
| 08:12.09 | aicra | We need to bitch at the debian ppl |
| 08:12.13 | aicra | that's bs |
| 08:12.15 | rendar | ? |
| 08:12.20 | rendar | can you effectively help me? |
| 08:12.27 | aicra | download the source |
| 08:12.29 | aicra | compile? |
| 08:12.31 | aicra | no I can't |
| 08:12.51 | rendar | download the source & compile in 2019, awesome |
| 08:13.15 | rendar | computers should shrink human labor |
| 08:13.17 | herzlichweise | rendar: maybe with pinning but that can break your system |
| 08:13.31 | rendar | herzlichweise: i don't want to break things, i just want to work |
| 08:13.40 | aicra | people don't download source anymore |
| 08:13.44 | aicra | they wget |
| 08:13.54 | aicra | or git... my bad. I can't help you because I'm old |
| 08:14.02 | aicra | I still use mc |
| 08:14.15 | rendar | herzlichweise: there isn't a way that doesn't break the system? |
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| 08:15.21 | aicra | wget the source. then compile haha |
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| 08:16.45 | rendar | inferior OSes |
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| 08:16.55 | aicra | what |
| 08:17.00 | aicra | excuse me? |
| 08:17.51 | aicra | frustrated much? |
| 08:18.22 | aicra | It can be |
| 08:18.27 | rendar | aicra: if there is on frustrated it's you, you're blabbering since 10 minutes without saying anything useful |
| 08:18.37 | rendar | maybe you, inside, know that debian < * |
| 08:18.42 | rendar | ^__^ |
| 08:19.03 | aicra | nothing useful |
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| 08:19.09 | aicra | like... get the source and compile |
| 08:19.44 | rendar | OR, the system, could give me packets newer than ones from 1997 |
| 08:20.10 | aicra | hey, you come here. You don't know how to update a pkg |
| 08:20.21 | aicra | I tried to help |
| 08:20.41 | DrBunsen | Hey all, I wondered if it was possible to have a remote disk I can mount and encrypt, with all the encryption done locally, so I basically have a mountable disk on a remote system, with everything seen on the remote computer is just encrypted. A remote block device? I tried to google, but couldn't really find an answer. |
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| 08:33.55 | geoff343 | Has anyone on Debian Buster reported that there cursor will randomly move to the top right corner of the screen every once in while? |
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| 08:36.35 | Abdullah | geoff343: no... |
| 08:38.20 | rendar | aicra: that's not help |
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| 08:38.54 | rendar | aicra: that's making sarcastic comments. Even a debian user here, once, agreed with me that debian versioning is frustrating |
| 08:39.04 | rendar | a debian developer |
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| 08:42.09 | littlebit | hi people, I wanted to know if there is someone who knows how to work with ubi files (ubifs), I just want to know how to mount them |
| 08:42.16 | ratrace | eh they're gone... but someone has mentioned this before, yes, mouse randomly going into top corners |
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| 08:44.54 | aicra | rendar: we were just discussing that |
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| 08:45.00 | aicra | we are in agreement |
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| 08:45.50 | aicra | rendar: I'm a dev too. |
| 08:48.16 | aicra | 3.5 in the repos but 3.13 otherwise... not cool. It took about 15 min to wget and compile... make is running smooth now |
| 08:48.43 | ratrace | well debian is not about latest software, if you need that, maybe some other distro, debian "based" even, might be a better choice. |
| 08:48.57 | ratrace | !sns |
| 08:48.57 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
| 08:49.00 | aicra | but I offer a debian tool |
| 08:49.14 | ratrace | then you can develop against sid packages? |
| 08:49.29 | aicra | of course |
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| 08:49.38 | aicra | However, I don't like the "treatment" |
| 08:49.48 | ratrace | treatment? |
| 08:49.53 | aicra | enforcement of CoC |
| 08:49.58 | aicra | threats |
| 08:49.59 | ratrace | what? |
| 08:50.00 | aicra | censoring |
| 08:50.12 | aicra | the culture used to be better |
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| 08:50.33 | aicra | removing weboob |
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| 08:51.48 | ratrace | what's wrong with having a polite ecosystem that does not support or endorse childish inanity? |
| 08:52.38 | aicra | We can nudge each other with reminders as in the past |
| 08:52.44 | ratrace | the "culture" actually used to be worse. take a peek at all the racial and other slur in dpkg bot's factoids. it's embarassing. |
| 08:52.46 | aicra | We can be a community |
| 08:53.03 | aicra | When was it ever worse |
| 08:53.05 | aicra | hahaha |
| 08:53.25 | Habbie | !ssb |
| 08:53.25 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
| 08:53.31 | aicra | I'm an asian woman debian dev from back in the day |
| 08:53.42 | aicra | started with potato |
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| 08:55.35 | aicra | it was NEVER worse |
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| 09:00.03 | xormor | I am thinking: is the newest GNOME(3?) sufficient for my needs with the customizations I have made or need I use MATE that is based on GNOME2? |
| 09:01.47 | xormor | Debian is a GNU system that usually uses Linux as its kernel |
| 09:03.02 | ratrace | xormor: only you can answer that question |
| 09:03.19 | xormor | there are 2 different definitions for "operating system", either it is just the kernel (the main program of the computer) or includes system tools, like GNU or whatever. I think the user interface is not a part of the kernel nor the OS, it is added on top of it. |
| 09:03.36 | ratrace | ogawd anothr bot |
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| 09:06.03 | ubuking | hello! how are you ?? :D |
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| 09:43.59 | ov3rmind | nice ugt peopple! |
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| 09:48.52 | mi11k1 | can somebody tell me how much time I wasted with Windows? |
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| 09:51.42 | ratrace | mi11k1: 98% |
| 09:52.03 | mi11k1 | nahh, its ongoing |
| 09:52.23 | ratrace | remaining 1.9% is spent on valuable lessons that triggered switch to linux. 0.1% is because 47.65% of statistics are made up on the spot. |
| 09:52.31 | mi11k1 | was it you helping me with my HD going nuts and freezup problem a few weeks ago? |
| 09:52.43 | ratrace | I don't remember :) |
| 09:52.51 | mi11k1 | netcat to pastebin? |
| 09:52.59 | mi11k1 | check if swappy |
| 09:53.04 | ratrace | sounds familiar |
| 09:53.31 | mi11k1 | ok, well. i thouught it was just buster, went back to MX which is debian 9, same thing |
| 09:53.50 | mi11k1 | same on my lenovo. |
| 09:54.21 | mi11k1 | it seems to be chrome when i have Proxmox UI or Observium. |
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| 09:55.16 | mi11k1 | The second machine only has 4 gig of ram, its understandable, but my laptop is 8 gig and same friggin thing. |
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| 10:03.12 | mi11k1 | ratrace, you guys were talking about Dell T series ? |
| 10:03.22 | mi11k1 | I found a few |
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| 10:04.04 | ratrace | mi11k1: what was the problem, again? |
| 10:04.20 | mi11k1 | HDD goes nuts and locks up |
| 10:04.38 | mi11k1 | 2 machines debian 9 and 10 |
| 10:05.11 | ratrace | could it be power saving spin down and failure to wake up? |
| 10:05.13 | mi11k1 | seems to be chrome when on the proxmox management page or observium |
| 10:05.29 | mi11k1 | when im using it? |
| 10:05.39 | mi11k1 | theyre both SSD |
| 10:05.47 | ratrace | trim enabled? |
| 10:05.53 | mi11k1 | trim? |
| 10:06.01 | ratrace | trim/discard |
| 10:06.13 | mi11k1 | not familiar with that term. |
| 10:06.16 | mi11k1 | ill look it up |
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| 10:08.07 | ratrace | mi11k1: you'll also have to summarize your problem and pastebin relevant log entries, as I don't remember what the details were, and then someone else here might know better. |
| 10:08.33 | ratrace | mi11k1: I asked about TRIM because some models have issues with it and might hog up during real-time trim events |
| 10:08.45 | ratrace | see also https://wiki.debian.org/SSDOptimization#WARNING |
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| 10:09.22 | mi11k1 | ratrace, https://pastebin.com/YrQ4mzx9 |
| 10:09.29 | BCMM | is performance the reason some people advocate fstrim as opposed to discard? |
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| 10:09.58 | BCMM | i've never managed to find a proper explanation as to why so many people advise using fstrim |
| 10:09.59 | ratrace | mi11k1: please use dpaste.de or even paste.debian.net |
| 10:10.24 | ratrace | BCMM: yes, as some SSDs can slow down considerably during trimming |
| 10:10.42 | BCMM | is there any good way to benchmark that? |
| 10:10.44 | mi11k1 | ratrace, that was the problem last time, i couldnt find logs, i watch iotop |
| 10:10.51 | BCMM | i never *noticed* it on my ssd when i used discard |
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| 10:10.56 | ratrace | BCMM: mount with discard and see if you have unexplained slowdowns :) |
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| 10:11.33 | ratrace | BCMM: also on the wiki link above, there's a list of bad behaving SSDs, but the list is in the kernel that then ignores TRIM for them |
| 10:11.45 | BCMM | yeah, i checked that as soon as i got the ssd |
| 10:11.59 | ratrace | mi11k1: I can't see that paste, please use paste.debian.net or dpaste.de |
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| 10:12.02 | BCMM | but that would mean no discard *and* no fstrim |
| 10:12.22 | ratrace | BCMM: yes but you schedule fstrim during the night or something like that |
| 10:12.23 | mi11k1 | ratrace, just out of curiousity, how does using those pastes benefit debian? just asking. |
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| 10:13.00 | BCMM | ratrace: i mean, in many cases ATA_HORKAGE means trim (at any time) will corrupt data, not just slow things down |
| 10:13.07 | ratrace | BCMM: actually, no, wait, I'm not sure the two are the same |
| 10:13.29 | mi11k1 | ratrace, http://paste.debian.net/1108259/ |
| 10:14.20 | BCMM | ratrace: the point of that warning is that it's possible that your SSD is known to require a workaround to use trim safely (or known to be completely unsafe with trim, in a handful of cases), but it isn't on the blacklist included in debian's kernel yet |
| 10:14.36 | ratrace | mi11k1: thta doesn't show any immediately visible issues. is there anything in dmesg/journal when that happens? |
| 10:15.07 | ratrace | BCMM: yeah. |
| 10:15.08 | BCMM | that's why they suggest checking the upstream kernel, in case your device got blacklisted *after* the kernel you're using was released |
| 10:15.15 | mi11k1 | ratrace, i was just reading the debian wiki and itsaid run that, ill keep looking |
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| 10:15.50 | ratrace | mi11k1: SMART attributes are just one aspect of troubleshooting the drive. I'd be primarily interested if the kernel has to say anything via dmesg, when that disk locks up |
| 10:16.41 | mi11k1 | ratrace, I use dmesg often, but not familiar with journalctl, just learning it. |
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| 10:17.05 | mi11k1 | ratrace, I also dont run into many problems :) |
| 10:18.16 | mi11k1 | ratrace, heres a nasty one for you, http://paste.debian.net/1108260/ |
| 10:19.05 | mi11k1 | just spewing out bs this thing |
| 10:19.37 | BCMM | woah, there are still laptops using ps/2 internally? |
| 10:19.45 | mi11k1 | haha yepp. |
| 10:19.54 | mi11k1 | its an i5 |
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| 10:20.29 | mi11k1 | it fell on its head a few times |
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| 10:21.47 | ratrace | mi11k1: that appears to be the whole dmesg, but I'm curious about log entries immediately before and during the disk lockups |
| 10:22.49 | mi11k1 | ratrace, how do i get those? when it locks I cant do anything but hold the power button. So, the dmesg as soon as I start it back up? |
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| 10:23.50 | ratrace | mi11k1: waitaminute, then how do you know it's the SSD that's locking up? |
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| 10:24.21 | mi11k1 | ratrace, I dont. just the HD light is lit solid and the whole machine is locked |
| 10:24.29 | mi11k1 | sorry |
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| 10:24.45 | ratrace | mi11k1: dmesg is kernel's ring buffer, goes away wwhen you reboot, but if disk wasn't the issue during the lockup, it's possible that journald logged it and/or forwarded to syslog that logged it. |
| 10:24.54 | ratrace | mi11k1: eh..... could be anything then |
| 10:25.13 | ratrace | bad bios, acpi, GPU, memory hardware issues, faulty sata cables, .... |
| 10:25.34 | mi11k1 | ratrace, on 2 machines though. |
| 10:25.49 | ratrace | what's the difference between the machines? and what's the same? |
| 10:25.50 | mi11k1 | debian 9 and 10. the other is lenovo |
| 10:25.58 | mi11k1 | i5 is it |
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| 10:26.43 | mi11k1 | lenovo has 4 gig of ram, I brought home wrong ram lastnight for it. |
| 10:27.49 | mi11k1 | ratrace, it might have something to do with viewing zoneminder too, im thinking. |
| 10:28.08 | ratrace | well what's the difference between the machines? bioses? cpus? memory? chipsets? gpu? .... |
| 10:28.50 | mi11k1 | ones a dell latitude laptop and the other lenovo desktop. maybe intel graphics is common. i have to check |
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| 10:29.02 | mi11k1 | ohhhhh, maybeeee... |
| 10:29.13 | mi11k1 | i915 i think they have in common |
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| 10:30.19 | mi11k1 | both i5, latitude is 8gig and lenovo is 4 gig, lenovo has 500gig samsung ssd |
| 10:30.26 | ratrace | mi11k1: also check journals. eg, last 100 entries from previous boot via journalctl -b -1 -n 100 . If the journals are not persistent, make them persistent (man journald, read about Storage= param). Or find previous boots via /var/log/syslog (can't grep for it easily, you'd have to locate where it happens) |
| 10:31.02 | ratrace | if you have multiple machines, ssh from one to the other, tail dmesg with -w and observe what happens when the machine where you're tailing the dmesg, locks up |
| 10:31.02 | mi11k1 | ratrace, ok, that is helpful info, thanks. |
| 10:31.55 | mi11k1 | ratrace, good idea. |
| 10:32.07 | ratrace | without the kernel yelling about what's bothering it, the possibilities are endless |
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| 10:37.58 | mi11k1 | ratrace, ive never done this, but im nc to another machine thats >> file |
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| 10:40.49 | mi11k1 | its not doing it now, its got something to do with chrome and proxmox or that rrd graphing stuff. |
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| 10:45.24 | ratrace | mi11k1: you're nc'ing what? |
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| 11:00.54 | mi11k1 | ratrace, dmesg -w |
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| 11:01.36 | ratrace | mi11k1: ah, k |
| 11:02.30 | mi11k1 | i just realized my lagg has a 10/100 card in it |
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| 11:10.09 | apatheticsheep | howdy all! |
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| 11:16.32 | apatheticsheep | anyone know if I can get the firmware-b43-installer package for stretch 9.9? |
| 11:17.15 | mi11k1 | apatheticsheep, did you add non-free to sources? |
| 11:17.22 | apatheticsheep | hmm |
| 11:17.28 | BCMM | apatheticsheep: in contrib |
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| 11:17.38 | mi11k1 | add contrib and non-free to the end of the lines in sources.list |
| 11:18.05 | mi11k1 | bingo! |
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| 11:19.31 | mi11k1 | ELK stack is sweet, I dont understand any of it. |
| 11:20.46 | apatheticsheep | that'll do it. Thanks! |
| 11:21.01 | mi11k1 | ya mon |
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| 11:24.17 | mi11k1_ | ratrace, ok, lets see if your labour bared any fruits |
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| 11:27.33 | mi11k1_ | ratrace, http://paste.debian.net/1108278/ |
| 11:28.10 | mi11k1_ | ratrace, the usb was just me pluggin and unplugging a usb stick to see if it was working . |
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| 11:30.35 | mi11k1_ | ratrace, and the journal command has no record for that boot journal. |
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| 11:32.37 | deadmarshal | how can I install nvidia graphics driver on debian 10? |
| 11:34.13 | BCMM | deadmarshal: the proprietary one? |
| 11:34.35 | deadmarshal | I don't know |
| 11:35.30 | BCMM | there's an official proprietary driver from nvidia, and a community-maintained open-source driver called nouveau |
| 11:36.09 | deadmarshal | the first one |
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| 11:36.34 | BCMM | deadmarshal: this wiki page hasn't been updated for buster, but it mostly applies https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers |
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| 11:37.18 | BCMM | enable non-free, install and run nvidia-detect, and it will tell you what driver is appropriate for your card |
| 11:37.41 | BCMM | (nvidia sometimes drops supports for older cards, so some people need to run old versions of the driver) |
| 11:37.42 | deadmarshal | thanks |
| 11:38.32 | BCMM | in addition to whatever package nvidia-detect recommends, make sure you have headers for your current kernel |
| 11:39.44 | deadmarshal | ok |
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| 12:05.03 | ratrace | mi11k1__: what's that last paste of exactly? |
| 12:05.55 | mi11k1__ | ratrace, from when i said i did nc to another machine until the crash. |
| 12:06.16 | mi11k1__ | ratrace, 10 mins before the last line i inserted and removed a usb stick |
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| 12:06.45 | mi11k1__ | ratrace, it doesnt look to revealing |
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| 12:31.07 | netcrash | Hello, Is there anything like rd.break to place in front of the grub boot kernel option to make the machine go to initramfs and from there chroot to sysroot and change the password ?? |
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| 13:04.52 | ratrace | netcrash: set init=/bin/bash as kernel command line for example? |
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| 13:06.10 | user549 | Hi, would anyone be able to explain to me the state of play regarding phpmyadmin in Debian 10? I've recently upgraded from 9 and it seems that phpmyadmin is no longer available in Buster. I have discovered a bug discussion at https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=916310, but it doesn't say when it might be available. What is one to do |
| 13:06.11 | user549 | in this situation where I actively use phpmyadmin, but now am no longer able to install from repo? Many thanks |
| 13:06.11 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/916310 in phpmyadmin (open): «4.6 should not be shipped in a stable release»; severity: serious; opened: 2018-12-12; last modified: 2019-06-20. |
| 13:08.46 | ratrace | user549: multiple bugs for that: https://tracker.debian.org/news/1021625/phpmyadmin-removed-from-testing/ |
| 13:09.47 | ratrace | user549: sorry, wrong link, here's the excuses: https://qa.debian.org/excuses.php?package=phpmyadmin |
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| 13:11.56 | user549 | Thanks ratrace. So in a nutshell, what is the deal with it, I don't see an ETA for Buster. Is it best to remove and not use, or try and install from tar.gz from their website direct? |
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| 13:17.40 | boktan | is there anyone can help me about kali Linux installation? |
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| 13:19.18 | boktan | i have some wifi problems before and after installing kali Linux on my hard drive |
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| 13:39.17 | ratrace | user549: there is no ETA for bustre. once removed it ain't coming in until bullseye, if the conditions are met. |
| 13:39.51 | ratrace | or... I phrased that wrongly... it _might_ come back into testing which will then one day become Stable. but right now it ain't coming into Stable aka Buster. |
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| 13:58.50 | jelly | user549: either use upstream and track that, or maybe use version from jessie-security (jessie-lts). https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/phpmyadmin -- in any case it's probably a good idea to restrict access to usage over VPN or private networks only instead of letting it be on public internet |
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| 14:00.12 | user549 | Thanks @jelll |
| 14:01.32 | user549 | Thanks jelly. I'm only accessing it locally, but good advice! What's upstream? |
| 14:03.23 | jelly | "upstream" means original authors, ie. "tarball from their web site" |
| 14:03.25 | jelly | !upstream |
| 14:03.25 | dpkg | upstream is, like, where Debian developers download software from. https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch03.en.html#upstream-coordination |
| 14:03.56 | user549 | jelly so can I clarify please? So PMA has been deemed too buggy for inclusion in Buster, but is still available in previous debian versions? So does that mean all versions of PMA, even up to date ones are still susceptible to attack etc? |
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| 14:05.01 | jelly | there's a separate team managing security issues for Debian 8, the LTS team, and they fixed some but not all the security issues in the old version for Debian 8 |
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| 14:06.05 | jelly | the security tracker link tells you which versions available in debian are susceptible to which set of issues |
| 14:06.06 | xormor | can this be ignored in the boot and dmesg? --> "MODSIGN: Couldn't get UEFI db list" |
| 14:06.28 | user549 | I'm reviewing all links you've sent thank you. |
| 14:06.53 | xormor | I Googled it, and it has to do with the fact that I have secure boot "disabled" (in the menu it says "Other OS", the other option is "Windows UEFI", they are the only options there). |
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| 14:07.53 | xormor | apparently the kernel or another part of the system is looking for a secure boot signature, that cannot be found since the secure boot is disabled (shown as "Other OS" in the UEFI system boot menu). |
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| 14:08.30 | xormor | this means the object was not found: "Couldn't get size: 0x800000000000000e" according to Google. |
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| 14:09.51 | xormor | I am using kernel 5.3.7, compiled it myself. I got the error message with the kernel 5.3.6 and it I noticed it after removing another kernel version with the rm command from /boot/, so I suspected it was looking for something from the other kernel virtual machine file, "vmlinuz" or "*image*". |
| 14:11.55 | user549 | ratrace Thanks for the info about conditions being met (just scrolled back to see your comment) |
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| 14:14.13 | xormor | I think I will just ignore the error, since it is a kernel issue that does not affect my computing too much. I have not noticed any performance issues with my computer. |
| 14:14.15 | user549 | If I understand correctly, so the advise for a new install of Debian 10, needing to use PMA would be to manually download the package from the website and re-download when new versions are available? I.e. upstream? |
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| 14:16.15 | ratrace | user549: frankly I never use PHP apps from packages, they're nicely confined to their own dir and I manage them directly from upstream, while keeping the rest of the system nice and stable |
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| 14:17.13 | ratrace | user549: that way I can also react faster and upgrade in case of vulns, and not wait for the package to go through the red tape |
| 14:18.21 | ratrace | I also do that for python via virtualenvs |
| 14:19.06 | user549 | Ok thanks, I've only used apps like PMA from packages for the simplicity of installation and manageability/stability of updates though apt-get. Again, to confirm when you mean 'directly from upstream' you are just meaning, 'i download directly from the devs website, and extract to install (etc)' |
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| 14:20.51 | ratrace | user549: yes. I don't use PMA, but I use Roundcube. Roundcube has the concept of stable branches and any updates to it are exclusively bug fixes and security fixes. |
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| 14:21.29 | ratrace | if I wanted to bother I could package up my own .deb from that, but I'm just too lazy. unpacking a tarball into a dir and running the upgrade script is all I need for Roundcube |
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| 14:21.50 | user549 | +1 to that :) |
| 14:22.36 | user549 | Every time I come here I learn something new. Thanks for the info and bearing with me! |
| 14:24.01 | user549 | I do have another question, if you wouldn't mind? It is about package removal? |
| 14:24.21 | jelly | !ask |
| 14:24.21 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 14:24.42 | Eryn_1983_FL | hey guys how do i find this key in my apt https://pkg.jenkins.io/debian/jenkins.io.key |
| 14:24.47 | Eryn_1983_FL | i want to remove it to test some salt stuff |
| 14:25.17 | jelly | Eryn_1983_FL: apt-key list ... will tell you which file each key comes from |
| 14:26.20 | jelly | Eryn_1983_FL: and if it's in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg, use apt-key del keyidhere |
| 14:26.58 | Eryn_1983_FL | nothing in there says jenkins |
| 14:27.00 | Eryn_1983_FL | at all |
| 14:27.07 | Eryn_1983_FL | in list |
| 14:27.28 | Eryn_1983_FL | and /etc/apt/trusted.gpg is binary |
| 14:28.13 | Eryn_1983_FL | im getting it off of here for jenkins https://pkg.jenkins.io/debian/ |
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| 14:28.44 | Eryn_1983_FL | maybe finger? |
| 14:28.47 | Eryn_1983_FL | i see paths now |
| 14:29.20 | Eryn_1983_FL | atleast some of them |
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| 14:32.34 | perris92 | Guys, when I, as root, create a new user with 'useradd' and afterwards switch to that account with 'su' that new user starts out under '/' and not the respective $HOME. I need to 'cd' before that user can do anything. Is it possible to configure the directory where a new user starts from? |
| 14:34.43 | Eryn_1983_FL | sigh frustrating |
| 14:34.52 | user549 | After apt-get remove phpmyadmin, it is no longer installable on Buster (ok fine). But apt-get purge phpmyadmin, shows it will remove the package? I thought I just removed it? |
| 14:35.33 | perris92 | You didn't remove the config files, user549 |
| 14:35.47 | perris92 | apt purge will do that, apt remove won't. |
| 14:36.20 | user549 | perris92 I assume that is a design feature so if in future, it is reinstalled, the config is preserved? |
| 14:36.48 | perris92 | If you use apt remove, then the answer is yes. |
| 14:37.09 | user549 | After running dpkg -l phpmyadmin, it shows a status of rc. what is rc? |
| 14:38.17 | user549 | The reason I ask, is that on my system after an upgrade from Stretch to Buster, dpkg -l | grep ^[rc] shows a lot of packages still hanging around. Should I purge them too? |
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| 14:38.58 | Lope | so ratrace told me that putting ZFS on LVM is the antichrist. |
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| 14:39.47 | Lope | So I tried to format a mounted LUKS volume, but the partitions will not add to the system, so even though `fdisk -l` shows the partition paths, they don't exist in /dev/ |
| 14:40.46 | LtL | user549: rc means package is removed but config files still exist |
| 14:41.10 | Lope | which means my remaining options are to either put ZFS in LVM, or have 3 separate luks volumes to store my 3 things. |
| 14:41.15 | user549 | Can I paste bin an output for verification? |
| 14:41.26 | xormor | I am running Debian Buster 10 stable, I think it is upgraded to 10.1 now. |
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| 14:46.44 | user549 | LtL so I should then to fully get rid of any trace of old packages, run: apt-get purge $(dpkg -l|grep ^[rc] | awk '{ print $2}') |
| 14:47.42 | ratrace | perris92: you need to use -l for su, for full login |
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| 14:48.21 | perris92 | ratrace: Thanks a lot! |
| 14:48.31 | ratrace | Lope: I did :) what do you mean "format a mounted volume" that doesn't sound right |
| 14:49.07 | ratrace | Lope: also please give the full context of what you're doing, we all forgot what it was :) |
| 14:50.28 | user549 | What does a package status of deinstall ok config-files mean? |
| 14:50.32 | LtL | user549: i would not worry about them. if your line won't work this will. # dpkg --list |grep "^rc" | cut -d " " -f 3 | xargs dpkg --purge |
| 14:52.07 | ratrace | Lope: nvm, cont'd in #zfsonlinux |
| 14:52.09 | user549 | LtL Thanks. To be fair, this is my first ventue into this, I've always just apt-get remove <package> and then got on with life. Only today, I'm learning more about package status, and seeing now that there are left over config not 100% removed. Seeing what is best, that's all. |
| 14:52.59 | LtL | user549: i would just ignore those files unless they cause a problem. |
| 14:54.04 | user549 | LtL Sure. I might just do. Just trying to make every day a school day :D |
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| 14:54.22 | user549 | Thanks for your help. Much appreciated |
| 14:54.45 | LtL | user549: you're welcome to ask here. |
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| 15:11.40 | xormor | what is Compton used for? |
| 15:13.26 | Lope | thanks ra |
| 15:13.30 | Lope | ratrace, |
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| 15:24.04 | Lope | What's a good amount of swap to have on SSD, for a server with 64G RAM? I'm thinking 32G would be ideal, but my SSD is only 240G and I need space for lots of other stuff. So I'm thinking 10G? |
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| 15:25.00 | Lope | I could probably be 100% fine with no swap whatsoever, considering that my old server is 24G and is handling fine. (though I plan to run more stuff on it) |
| 15:26.08 | oiaohm | Lope: no swap at all does cause some issues new methods of defragging memory normally use swap as a stratch place. |
| 15:26.12 | nkuttler | don't you know how much ram you'll need for the services you run? i don't want servers to swap and just don't give any |
| 15:26.49 | oiaohm | Lope: so a ram base swap of like 128 meg to keep everything happy can be a good move. |
| 15:27.32 | Lope | oiaohm, I find it strange that the kernel can't defrag ram without swap? |
| 15:27.39 | Lope | but that's a bit off-topic. |
| 15:28.25 | Lope | nkuttler, the thing is the kernel is clever. It knows swap is slow. RAM can be better used to cache stuff vs hold memory that's seldom accessed. |
| 15:28.27 | oiaohm | Lope: its new methods of memory defrag they use swap at a means to auto roll back if there is something locked right and a access happens mid move. |
| 15:28.50 | Lope | Like if you're running a VM where the guy only logs in a few times a month, most of the month that RAM just rots. Might as well swap it. |
| 15:28.52 | oiaohm | Lope: opps something not locked right and access happens mid move. |
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| 15:29.55 | Lope | oiaohm, yes, I understand the need to reserve scratch space during defrag. However why not just reserve a portion of RAM as scratch space to defrag RAM? It would be faster and not wear out SSD's. |
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| 15:30.26 | oiaohm | Lope: that would mean duplicating up code. Yes it a evil hack to use the swap. |
| 15:30.47 | Lope | I could understand that being done on a 256MB RAM RbPi. But a server with 64G RAM, 128M is nothing for scratch space. |
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| 15:31.38 | Lope | anyway, what do you reckon about 10G for swap? |
| 15:31.47 | Lope | Also what about storing swap on linux MD raid? |
| 15:32.00 | Lope | RAID 1 of SSD's? |
| 15:32.13 | Lope | incase one SSD dies, it doesn't cause the server to die. |
| 15:32.30 | oiaohm | It depends on what the server will be running. |
| 15:32.44 | oiaohm | and how many cores the server has. |
| 15:33.12 | oiaohm | Most people don't divide the ram by cores/threads to see how many ram there is per running process. |
| 15:34.00 | oiaohm | 64G ram would not be much on a 64core 128 thread cpu. as that would be 512 megs of memory per active core. |
| 15:34.37 | Lope | My server is only 4 core with HT |
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| 15:36.29 | Lope | I don't divide up cores etc. |
| 15:36.39 | Lope | I just set priorities on stuff. |
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| 15:47.58 | oiaohm | Lope: 8 threads max 64G on that is for lots of things up in overkill at 8G per thread this is decent at that size depending on workload no disc based swap might be a valid option. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Swap zram is in memory swap option. Defaults of zram at 1/4 of existing ram if it only there mostly to allow memory defrag methods to all work would be overkill. |
| 15:48.42 | oiaohm | Lope: so there are workload questions for how much ram and what time. Lot try to disable swap on ssd to reduce ssd writes. |
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| 15:52.49 | JordiGH | I'm in a debian chroot and when I try to run `update-initramfs -u` as root in the chroot, I get, `ldconfig: Can't create temporary cache file /etc/ld.so.cache~: No such file or directory |
| 15:52.49 | JordiGH | ` |
| 15:52.52 | JordiGH | Eh? |
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| 15:53.10 | JordiGH | What file or directory are you unable to create? |
| 15:53.42 | Lope | oiaohm, this is a rented server, so I'm not too worried about reducing writes on the SSD. |
| 15:53.57 | Lope | Of course I wouldn't be reckless, but using swap on SSD is considered normal. |
| 15:54.34 | Lope | BBL |
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| 16:00.56 | JordiGH | Wait, or is it impossible/dumb to update-initramfs in a chroot? |
| 16:01.08 | JordiGH | Since the chroot isn't actually running the right linux? |
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| 16:11.36 | lupine | depends on how the chroot is set up |
| 16:11.45 | lupine | if you're mounted /boot into it, it can make perfect sense |
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| 16:15.05 | jelly | JordiGH: it's possible. It's also a usual step fixing a broken boot process |
| 16:15.13 | jelly | s/usual/common/ |
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| 16:18.35 | SerajewelKS | JordiGH: the running kernel doesn't matter that much. note that you can use -k to build for a specific installed debian kernel which implies that even booted into the same system, you can build an initrd for a different kernel than the running one. |
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| 16:19.49 | SerajewelKS | if this weren't true then you'd never be able to upgrade kernels :) |
| 16:19.53 | JordiGH | Okay, then no idea why update-initramfs is complaining with such an obscure error message. |
| 16:21.00 | SerajewelKS | JordiGH: that makes it sound like /etc doesn't exist O_o |
| 16:21.26 | JordiGH | No, it does. |
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| 16:21.40 | SerajewelKS | what is the output of: ls -l /etc/ld.so.cache~ |
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| 16:22.07 | SerajewelKS | i don't suppose it's a symlink? |
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| 16:23.23 | JordiGH | No symlinks. |
| 16:23.24 | Doxin | so I've got a raspberry pi where the sd-card takes a leasurely 7 seconds to get mounted, does anyone here have a clue what's going on there? I've tried asking in #raspbian but no one there seems to know... |
| 16:23.26 | JordiGH | root@stickworld:/etc# ls -l ld.so.cache |
| 16:23.26 | JordiGH | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 54898 Oct 19 15:41 ld.so.cache |
| 16:23.26 | JordiGH | root@stickworld:/etc# ls -l ld.so.cache~ |
| 16:23.26 | JordiGH | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Oct 19 15:41 ld.so.cache~ |
| 16:23.50 | SerajewelKS | JordiGH: if you run "ldconfig" do you get the same error? |
| 16:24.13 | JordiGH | No, plain "ldconfig" finishes normally. |
| 16:24.30 | SerajewelKS | Doxin: check the output of dmesg from around the time you mounted it |
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| 16:24.57 | Doxin | SerajewelKS: it gets mounted first thing on boot, I am looking through the logs |
| 16:25.03 | SerajewelKS | JordiGH: that's really odd, i've never seen this before |
| 16:25.21 | SerajewelKS | Doxin: how do you know that's what is taking 7 seconds then? |
| 16:25.31 | Doxin | SerajewelKS: that's what systemd-analyze tells me |
| 16:25.44 | Doxin | SerajewelKS: something has got to be taking up all that time during boot in any case |
| 16:26.01 | SerajewelKS | if there is a mount unit for that volume you could check its status output |
| 16:26.09 | Doxin | good idea |
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| 16:27.04 | Doxin | well that's irksome |
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| 16:27.08 | jelly | Doxin: there's also #raspberrypi, but unless you have actual Debian installed and not Raspbian, this is the wrong OS channel to ask for help |
| 16:27.14 | Doxin | SerajewelKS: the log has rotated out since I booted so its not showing me something |
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| 16:27.55 | Doxin | jelly: raspbian is simply debian recompiled for a different architecture, I'm aware that this is technically the wrong channel but it's the one most likely to be helpful at all in my experience |
| 16:28.49 | SerajewelKS | JordiGH: i can't find any reference to "no such file or directory" in combination with creating the ldconfig cache, which makes it even more mysterious |
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| 16:29.25 | JordiGH | How does update-initramfs work? It sets up a tempdir, right? |
| 16:29.29 | JordiGH | Chrooted somewhere? |
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| 16:29.41 | SerajewelKS | i don't actually know |
| 16:30.05 | SerajewelKS | JordiGH: have you tried running it with -v? |
| 16:30.52 | Doxin | SerajewelKS: anyways, status on dev-mmcblk0p2.device only tells me that it's active since 8 months and 3 days (which seems unlikely after a fresh boot, but who am I to doubt it) |
| 16:30.58 | jelly | !they don't know |
| 16:30.58 | dpkg | We're sorry your distro's channel isn't being helpful, but that doesn't make it appropriate to use #debian for non-Debian questions. Please go back to your channel and wait patiently for better help, or install Debian and party with us. |
| 16:31.11 | JordiGH | Let's see... |
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| 16:31.32 | JordiGH | btw: is raspbian a different distro? |
| 16:31.39 | Doxin | I really dont think so |
| 16:31.42 | Doxin | it has the same packages |
| 16:31.46 | rander2 | Hello all |
| 16:31.52 | Doxin | but if I'm being told to get out I dont need to be told twice |
| 16:31.56 | jelly | Doxin: if SerajewelKS wants to help, they can join #raspbian and help. Otherwise, please respect our volunteers choice of providing help to debian users. |
| 16:32.07 | JordiGH | Doxin: Is your /etc/apt/sources.list pointing at non-Debian servers? |
| 16:32.23 | JordiGH | If it is, it's not Debian. |
| 16:32.28 | Doxin | JordiGH: yeah, but it's for a large part a mirror, I need the debian keys to get them working |
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| 16:33.12 | Doxin | JordiGH: it's literally the same packages recompiled, software-wise it's all compatible. |
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| 16:34.01 | JordiGH | So why isn't it called "Debian"? |
| 16:34.20 | Doxin | JordiGH: not part of the debian organisation I guess? no clue |
| 16:34.22 | SerajewelKS | i don't know enough about early-boot systemd to really know where it might log regarding mounting / -- in particular because the log files can't be written to / before it is done mounting |
| 16:34.51 | Doxin | SerajewelKS: afaik it just saves up logs and stores em later, there's other pre-filesystem stuff in /var/log/syslog |
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| 16:35.08 | Doxin | SerajewelKS: but I feel like jelly is gonna get mighty upset if we keep talking about the forbidden distro |
| 16:35.22 | JordiGH | Doxin: "Raspbian is a Debian-based computer operating system for Raspberry Pi." |
| 16:35.25 | JordiGH | It's not Debian. |
| 16:35.32 | becks` | hi, if I have a device like eth0.2099, does this mean it is doing vlan tagging? or how can I find out? |
| 16:35.41 | Doxin | JordiGH: I really beg to differ |
| 16:35.41 | JordiGH | Ubuntu is also Debian-based and has a lot of the same packages. But it's not Debian. |
| 16:35.52 | JordiGH | There's nothing to beg here. If it's not Debian, it's not Debian. |
| 16:35.57 | jelly | everyone willing to help with Raspbian, please join #raspbian and avoid doing support for it in here |
| 16:36.06 | Doxin | jelly: yes because that's a realistic request. |
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| 16:36.26 | SerajewelKS | becks`: "ip link show dev eth0.2099" might tell you |
| 16:36.32 | becks` | thanks SerajewelKS! |
| 16:36.36 | jelly | it absolutely is, all irc clients support multiple channels |
| 16:36.53 | SerajewelKS | i don't know if tag settings are shown in link or some other subcommand |
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| 16:38.40 | SerajewelKS | becks`: yeah it would have "type vlan" with an id |
| 16:39.09 | becks` | it has, thanks a lot =) |
| 16:39.15 | rander2 | I wait a lot of time in time boot, dmesg give me some error, http://paste.debian.net/1108359/ |
| 16:39.29 | SerajewelKS | np |
| 16:39.59 | rander2 | ACPI Warning: SystemIO range 0x0000000000000500-0x000000000000052F conflicts with OpRegion 0x0000000000000500-0x000000000000057F (\_SB.PCI0.LPCB.GPBX) (20160831/utaddress-247) |
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| 16:41.32 | rander2 | I'm using debian 9.5 on a I5 8Gbyte ram |
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| 16:43.52 | oiaohm | rander2: that would be your acpi tables are screwed up. |
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| 16:46.01 | rander2 | oiaohm, what ? acpi is configurable from bios |
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| 16:46.14 | oiaohm | rander2: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/DSDT there are reasons why Linux supports loading your own. You are looking at technically a fault in bios/firmware the vendor provided apci tables are broken to specification. |
| 16:46.27 | Bushmaster | hi, seeking some help here, i am running fsck to fix one of my external hard drive and it comes with this message in my debian root of course https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zct72d5kVK/ |
| 16:47.26 | oiaohm | rander2: this is something that is either patch own table into the initramfs or have vendor provide fixed firmware to write. |
| 16:48.21 | oiaohm | rander2: there are a lot of devices with screwed up acpi tables even under windows you find this stuff being recorded in the eventlog of windows every boot as well. |
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| 16:50.53 | rander2 | oiaohm, acpi is a bios setting to save energy, I don't know wehere debian save own setting |
| 16:51.16 | oiaohm | rander2: I am not talking about the bios setting. |
| 16:51.22 | oiaohm | rander2: I am talking about the acpi table. |
| 16:51.56 | rander2 | oiaohm, debian have a own acpi setting that override the bios ? |
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| 16:55.37 | oiaohm | rander2: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/DSDT the linux kernel has the option to load it own dsdt basically the acpi table if your kernel was built with ACPI_TABLE_UPGRADE=y what debian stock kernels do. |
| 16:55.45 | oiaohm | rander2: because broken acpi tables are common. |
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| 16:56.16 | oiaohm | rander2: acpi tables tells OS important things like don't use X area of memory because something else has already claimed it. |
| 16:56.57 | oiaohm | rander2: and that what those errors you are seeing are about two things in the acpi table have claimed the exact same areas of memory. |
| 16:58.03 | rander2 | oiaohm, ok. I imaged it. But is difficult to solve, I never encounter this problem before |
| 16:58.43 | oiaohm | rander2: normally errors like this cause no other issues other than printing errors because the tables are wrong every boot. |
| 16:58.58 | oiaohm | rander2: because the zones are marked out so the Os does not use them. |
| 16:59.40 | oiaohm | rander2: or at least does not use those areas different to what they acpi table says. |
| 17:00.21 | oiaohm | rander2: I looked again you in fact have 4 different defined things overlapping. Great move motherboard vendor. |
| 17:00.41 | rander2 | oiaohm, ok, but in the boot time I must wait 1 minute and 30 seconds |
| 17:01.09 | rander2 | I's frustrating |
| 17:01.25 | oiaohm | rander2: those messages normally would not be cause of stall. |
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| 17:03.08 | oiaohm | rander2: 1min 30 seconds sounds like a supermicro motherboard that spends ages validating the hardware before 1 bootting 2 unlocking the clock speed from the slowest possible clock. |
| 17:03.39 | oiaohm | rander2: that is the cpu clockspeed. |
| 17:03.55 | rander2 | oiaohm, this pc do boot strap in 10-12 second |
| 17:04.38 | oiaohm | rander2: I have had a supermicro board new take 12 mins to get to bootloader. |
| 17:04.59 | oiaohm | Then take a second to boot the complete system. |
| 17:05.02 | oiaohm | from there. |
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| 17:05.26 | oiaohm | Basically some boards are worse than others. |
| 17:05.41 | rander2 | oiaohm, the problem star when I installed kali in dual-boot on the same disk ( I'd never done it ) , to avoid VM for test wifi |
| 17:06.24 | rander2 | oiaohm, this is a pc not a microboard, this is a intel I5 |
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| 17:08.07 | oiaohm | rander2: https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Core/ that brand I refered it s only example but they make full sizes as well. Not always with their brand on it. |
| 17:08.37 | oiaohm | rander2: motherboard vendor bios/uefi build can really ruin your day. |
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| 17:09.35 | oiaohm | rander2: also if it on board wifi due to hardware abuse kali does it can throw hardware settings out so make firmware system validation slower. |
| 17:09.51 | oiaohm | rander2: on board as on motherboard wifi. |
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| 17:11.12 | rander2 | oiaohm, I try to reinstall grub from debian, I'm using grub from kali, and kali isn't reliable |
| 17:11.49 | oiaohm | rander2: kali has kernel patches that allowed it to drive wifi devices in ways makers of those devices don't approve of. |
| 17:12.12 | oiaohm | rander2: if that hit something it should not you can have ruined the system booting performance basically for good. |
| 17:12.58 | oiaohm | Kali is not something you should just play with it can bite badly on incompadible hardware. |
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| 17:13.59 | rander2 | oiaohm, I know the patches on kali kernel, I know that after reboot all could be return to the default, but maybe the kali grub have some special setting, I don't know |
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| 17:15.04 | rander2 | oiaohm, https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Core/ , this pc is a more old, it's a 4th intel I5 generation |
| 17:15.35 | rander2 | 4th generation intel cpu and mainboard |
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| 17:18.56 | rander2 | oiaohm, however it's strange that after kali dual-boot was born this problem |
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| 17:31.10 | rander2 | oiaohm, nothig to do, the problem remain the same |
| 17:32.03 | christian46 | hi all, has anyone tested fdroidserver in Debian buster ? it doesn't work for me .... tase anyone a hint ? |
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| 17:33.32 | rander2 | christian46, fdroid isn't a free open source repository for android ? |
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| 17:36.00 | christian46 | you can make an android reprosity its totally free |
| 17:36.09 | christian46 | and open source |
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| 17:41.02 | rander2 | christian46, yes I know, but the real problem of android are the drivers, they aren't free source, so it's impossible make a full open device |
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| 17:43.25 | otyugh | do you know if you can use calamares instead of the usual "debian installer" from live-build ? |
| 17:43.46 | otyugh | (without booting a live-session) |
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| 17:55.18 | amazaki | test |
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| 17:55.37 | amazaki | hello |
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| 17:56.12 | amazaki | so fun to chat via terminal |
| 17:56.48 | amazaki | rip |
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| 17:57.19 | oxek | I did a default installation of debian stable, selected guided partitioning using encrypted lvm. When I boot, I get the errors "Volume group "vg00" not found Cannot process volume group vg00". After these errors, the correct luks passphrase prompt shows up. |
| 17:57.25 | oxek | how do I remove these errors? |
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| 17:57.45 | oxek | afaik they show on every debian installation out there that uses lvm inside luks |
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| 17:58.43 | oxek | possibly related https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/204371/debian-error-message-unable-to-find-lvm-volume-but-then-boots-successfully |
| 17:58.51 | oxek | but that post is from many years ago |
| 17:58.56 | oxek | for older version of debian |
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| 19:06.20 | ubuking | helllo |
| 19:06.21 | ubuking | please jelp |
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| 19:09.23 | Ede|Popede | !ask |
| 19:09.23 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 19:09.44 | ubuking | i have new pc |
| 19:09.45 | ubuking | amd ryzen 3900 |
| 19:09.47 | ubuking | 3900x |
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| 19:10.06 | ubuking | helpppppp |
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| 19:11.56 | Ede|Popede | flooding without a line of text? or did i miss something? oO |
| 19:12.11 | Xalys | I'm getting used to my new debian desktop... |
| 19:12.23 | Xalys | Pasting an entire kmod config by accident doesn't help :) |
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| 19:12.55 | Ede|Popede | didn't see anything but the kick. strange. |
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| 19:13.21 | ubuking | I have new Pc AMD RYZEN 3900x. WHich Linux is best for it? |
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| 19:13.29 | Xalys | The answer is 'yes' |
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| 19:14.04 | julius | hi |
| 19:14.07 | Ede|Popede | ubuking: in #debian the obvious answer is "debian stable". |
| 19:14.19 | ubuking | ok whic DE?? |
| 19:14.22 | ubuking | which DE ? |
| 19:14.29 | Ede|Popede | which one you prefer |
| 19:15.15 | humbot | is that a brand new machine tho? |
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| 19:16.12 | ubuking | yess 2019 |
| 19:16.21 | Ede|Popede | if you have enough diskspace and time you could just install as many of them you like and have a look at all of them. with a test user for each one they won't even interfere with their user configurations |
| 19:16.42 | oxek | Ede|Popede: debian stable will not work on that machine |
| 19:16.55 | Ede|Popede | too new? |
| 19:16.58 | ubuking | oh noooo |
| 19:16.59 | ubuking | testing? |
| 19:17.04 | oxek | Ede|Popede: yeah, would need newer kernel |
| 19:17.21 | Ede|Popede | i think i've seen something about ryzen these days, but it just flew by. |
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| 19:29.32 | Lope | partprobe, command not found |
| 19:31.16 | Lope | hmm, I see it's part of the parted package. |
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| 19:40.34 | sponix | anyone happen to know of a file manager that has a preview pane -- one that especially works for PDF files ? |
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| 19:51.14 | cccv | :) |
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| 19:59.40 | jelly | sponix: Dolphin from KDE seems to, but sometimes it takes a very long time for the preview to appear |
| 20:00.10 | sponix | jelly: damn... good to know |
| 20:00.13 | sponix | thanks |
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| 20:30.24 | Lope | I've got a remote server where my first and 2nd GPT partitions are grub and mirror MD raid with root on it, and it's booted up as such. |
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| 20:30.52 | Lope | (on SSD's) I've also got 2 mechanical HDDs |
| 20:30.59 | Lope | I want to wipe the SSD's and totally reinstall. |
| 20:32.11 | Lope | I'm thinking a decent way to do that would be to somehow copy the installation onto one of the mechanical HDDs then setup grub and then wipe the SSD it's currently booted from. |
| 20:32.50 | Lope | I mean I can't erase the root filesystem while the system is running, without a problem, right? |
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| 20:33.38 | Lope | What if I copy the current filesystem to one of the mechanical disks, and then chroot into that, then wipe the SSD's. That should work? |
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| 20:34.20 | tds | it's a little more complex than just chrooting, but possible |
| 20:34.41 | Lope | do you mean the bind mounts before the chroot? or more than that? |
| 20:35.00 | JPT | Do you want to keep any of the data on those SSDs? If not, just boot a live system from usb/cdrom/... and wipe those SSDs. |
| 20:35.10 | Lope | JPT it's a remote server |
| 20:35.24 | tds | you need to completely pivot into the new rootfs and blat everything running with fds open on the old rootfs so you can unmount it |
| 20:35.31 | Lope | the recovery environment isn't great. |
| 20:35.40 | JPT | Ah - no rescue system available, no ipmi-remote control or kvm available to make this easier? |
| 20:35.49 | Lope | tds, is that easy to do? |
| 20:36.04 | Lope | the KVM is only upon request, and it sucks. |
| 20:36.14 | tds | i'm sure there's a handy wrapper script for all this somewhere |
| 20:36.50 | tds | ah https://github.com/marcan/takeover.sh |
| 20:37.09 | tds | is the recovery environment not good enough to at least let you mount + chroot in? |
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| 20:37.23 | JPT | In any case, be sure that all important data on that machine is backed up. There is always a risk of accidentally killing your data. |
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| 20:42.26 | Lope | tds, ah, it would be good enough for that. But I'd rather just avoid using it. |
| 20:42.48 | tds | that's honestly going to be a whole lot easier than trying to pivot from a live system ;) |
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| 20:46.01 | Lope | really, I thought the pivot might be easier because, you know. Linux. |
| 20:48.18 | Lope | wow the takeover thing is hardcore. |
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| 20:58.57 | jhutchins | Lope: You want to reboot before you wipe the SSD. If you're in a chroot, your original session is still running from the ssd. Disable grub, boot to the new disk, then continue. You don't really need to erase the disk, just re-format it. |
| 20:59.40 | Lope | yeah, I'll just copy the installation to one of the mechanical HDDs, and then setup grub on that, then wipe grub from the SSD, then reboot. |
| 20:59.53 | Lope | jhutchins, ^ |
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| 21:00.14 | jhutchins | Sounds solid. |
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| 21:02.18 | _DeLa_ | If I install PyCharm on Debian buster via the following guide https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-install-the-pycharm-python-ide-in-linux-4091033 (no, not the snap installation! the one above), how will updates be handled? Are they initiated automatically? |
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| 21:02.28 | Lope | cool |
| 21:02.43 | Lope | can I copy the installation with cp -a or do I need to rsync it? |
| 21:03.08 | Lope | I suppose rsync for all the necessary excludes. |
| 21:03.32 | jhutchins | I'd just do a fresh minimal install. Copying a running system is not recommended. |
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| 21:04.25 | jhutchins | Copy stuff once you're booted to the new install. |
| 21:05.12 | Lope | it just has to work well enough to boot, quicker than setting up a new system from scratch then configuring ssh, etc. |
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| 21:05.26 | somiaj | _DeLa_: you are doing a local install of the software in /opt, you will have to manually do the upgrades most likely (some software upgrades itself in place, unsure about pycharm) |
| 21:05.38 | somiaj | _DeLa_: but unless pycharm upgrades itself in place, you'll have ot manually upgrade. |
| 21:05.57 | _DeLa_ | somiaj: that means just copying and overwriting the old files with the new ones? |
| 21:07.18 | Lope | jhutchins, tds, I've got another idea. What if I remove one of the SSD's from the mirror, while the system is running |
| 21:07.21 | somiaj | _DeLa_: most likely, I would see what people how use pycharm actually do. I think using the snap would be more automatic using snap's tools. |
| 21:07.33 | Lope | then I just setup the SSD that I removed. |
| 21:07.59 | Lope | that way I skip the need to do an intermediate installation. |
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| 21:08.05 | _DeLa_ | somiaj: I don't have much space left on my HD so I was trying to avoid snaps / flatpaks |
| 21:08.32 | _DeLa_ | somiaj: thanks for getting back! |
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| 21:10.26 | somiaj | _DeLa_: do you have another partition that has space, you don't have to isntall this in /opt, you could say install it in $HOME (if your home partition has way more space) |
| 21:10.54 | _DeLa_ | somiaj: micro SD card? |
| 21:10.58 | somiaj | _DeLa_: basically with local installs, you just don't want to use /usr, /usr/local is common for sofware that splits itself into common unix directories lib/ bin/ share/ etc |
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| 21:11.25 | somiaj | _DeLa_: /opt is a common place for software that is all contained in a single file tree. |
| 21:11.40 | somiaj | _DeLa_: you could put the software on another filesystem such as an sd card. |
| 21:11.50 | somiaj | there is nothign special about /opt, outside of it is standard. |
| 21:12.24 | _DeLa_ | somiaj: ok, thanks! |
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| 21:14.12 | nicolas | Hey |
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| 21:14.46 | nicolas | Is it recommended to upgrade from debian wheezy to 9 ? |
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| 21:20.32 | somiaj | nicolas: wheezy has not had full support for sometime |
| 21:20.34 | dvs | nicolas, it's recommended to upgrade to buster around here. |
| 21:20.37 | somiaj | !wheezy lts |
| 21:20.37 | dpkg | Security support for Debian 7 "Wheezy" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2016-04-25. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures receive additional long term support (LTS) via <wheezy/updates> until 2018-05-31. See http://deb.li/2aC for excluded packages. No changes to /etc/apt/sources.list are needed for wheezy-lts. limited commercial support extending further on exists in form of <elts> |
| 21:21.10 | somiaj | nicolas: so you have been without offical support since 2016, lts covers some packages. But what version you run depends on usecase, if using desktop, upgrade to buster (go through stretch) |
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| 21:21.21 | somiaj | if running a server, you may have other needs which LTS can help |
| 21:22.53 | Lope | jhutchins, tds: it worked. I just failed and hot removed one of the disks from the md array. |
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| 21:38.50 | Lope | night night |
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| 21:55.21 | nicolas | somiaj, i use it as a server |
| 21:56.24 | nicolas | somiaj, IS it better to upgrade from 7 yo 8 and 8 to 9 |
| 21:56.52 | nicolas | somiaj, then 7 to 9 |
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| 21:56.58 | nicolas | somiaj, than 7 to 9 |
| 21:57.40 | LtL | nicolas: 7 to 8 to 9 to 10 is highly recommended |
| 21:57.56 | nicolas | LtL, ok |
| 21:58.13 | LtL | nicolas: or save your stuff and frsh install 10 |
| 21:58.19 | nicolas | !jessie lts |
| 21:58.20 | LtL | *fresh |
| 21:59.48 | somiaj | nicolas: you may want to check out what versions of software is in buster, before going all the way. If what you are running on your server isnt' compadabile, you may not want to upgrade. |
| 22:00.37 | somiaj | nicolas: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS -- Wheezy LTS support has ended, jessie is only supported until next june, Stretch until 2022. |
| 22:00.48 | BCMM | nicolas: is this server internet-facing at all? |
| 22:01.14 | somiaj | the newer version you can use, the longer lifetime you have with LTS support. But as mentioned, it depends what the server actually needs to do. |
| 22:02.18 | Ankman | may be it would help to use "stable", "testing" or whatever to keep up with upgrades |
| 22:02.55 | BCMM | Ankman: usually a bad idea because some sort of breakage is somewhat expected when you upgrade between releases |
| 22:03.20 | BCMM | e.g. the server you use might make incompatible changes to its config files or something |
| 22:03.27 | Ankman | i use "testing" (might be a bad idea for some users though) and had little problems over the past years |
| 22:03.36 | somiaj | Ankman: also it is considered best practice to upgrade when you have time, not automatically upgrade when debian changes the links. |
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| 22:04.38 | somiaj | it is considered bad advise for most users, and those who want to use it should really consider the ramifications. Though testing (#debian-next on irc.oftc.net) has a bit different philosophy, since it is a development version, not an offical release. |
| 22:04.47 | nicolas | BCMM, yes |
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| 22:05.07 | Ankman | then choose |
| 22:05.09 | nicolas | I am dumping my database |
| 22:05.11 | BCMM | nicolas: depending on what software it runs, i would seriously worry about it being compromised |
| 22:05.23 | Ankman | "stable" |
| 22:06.17 | somiaj | nicolas: I would look at if your needs can be met with buster, and upgrade to that if possible. If not (due to needing older versions of software) you may find stretch LTS suitible for your needs (I wouldn't use jessie since it will loose support in a year) |
| 22:07.04 | somiaj | Ankman: nicolas using "stable" would break his system in lots of ways. And it is always best to use the codename "buster" over the link "stable" |
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| 22:09.59 | Ankman | somiaj: using "testing" instead of a codename like "buster" served me well since years/decades |
| 22:10.36 | somiaj | Ankman: it is still bad advise, and the debian development branch doesn't have the same conscerns as the stable branch. |
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| 22:10.48 | Ankman | okay |
| 22:10.53 | somiaj | It is always best to upgrade stable releases at a time of the admins choosing, not when debian switches the link. |
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| 22:11.47 | somiaj | I also suggest people use "bullseye" instead of testing, this gives them the option to stablize with the release, and if they choose to go back to the testing branch, do so at the time of their choosing (the first few weeks of a new testing can often be a bumpy ride, and some may want to wait for a few transitions in testing before moving back to it) |
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| 22:15.27 | Ankman | somiaj: then use "stable" instead of "testing". "testing" is what i use but might not serve others |
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| 22:17.20 | somiaj | Ankman: no, use codenames, 'buster', 'bullseye', over links 'stable', 'testing' |
| 22:17.53 | somiaj | I am not syaing don't use testing, I'm saying using 'bullseye' in your sources.list vs 'testing' is prefered for lots of reasons. The main one is if you choose to move on to the next testing branch, you do so at a time of your choosing. |
| 22:18.30 | somiaj | I wouldn't suggest running testing on an exposed server (no security support), but that is a different story. |
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| 23:07.54 | tantrum | Hi, does anybody in here have experience installing deb on zynq-7000 devices? I can get the installer to run, but mounting the iso fails |
| 23:09.10 | tantrum | just looking through buildroot, I could not see any obvious option I am missing - but I haven't done this before |
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| 23:10.57 | somiaj | tantrum: how did you copy the .iso file to your install medium? |
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| 23:11.25 | tantrum | somiaj: I created an ext4 partition on the sd card and just used cp |
| 23:11.33 | tantrum | image mounts fine on my host |
| 23:11.46 | tantrum | and the partition mounts fine on target, I can see the file |
| 23:11.57 | tantrum | and /var/logs/ tells me it's found |
| 23:12.13 | tantrum | nevertheless, I can't manually mount it on the target and neither can the installer |
| 23:12.21 | somiaj | yea, that is probably your problem, the debian .iso needs to be copied onto the install device. |
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| 23:12.36 | tantrum | I am installing from mmc |
| 23:12.41 | somiaj | You may want debootstrap for a manuall install |
| 23:13.06 | tantrum | ah - can I do that without qemu? not sure since it's cross platform |
| 23:13.11 | somiaj | hmm, I don't know what mmc is, but the debian .iso is fairly finiky |
| 23:13.14 | tantrum | x86 host with armhf target |
| 23:13.31 | dvs | somiaj, SDXC card |
| 23:13.56 | tantrum | dvs: thanks, that's what I should have said - SD card |
| 23:14.46 | tantrum | I am using my own (mainline) kernel, but the supplied deb rootfs for the installation - is that correct? |
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| 23:16.48 | tantrum | @somiaj: Does using debootstrap on the host machine usually work better than getting the installer to go on the target? |
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| 23:18.06 | tantrum | In general, I think not being able to mount it from shell is a problem, too - but I'm having trouble finding information about what might be missing |
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| 23:18.16 | somiaj | I think it depends on the setup, debootstrap is more verstile. Getting the installer to boot and find the install files can be tricky on some hardware. I don't have experience with arm boards, so unsure in this case. |
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| 23:18.47 | somiaj | there is #debian-arm on irc.oftc.net, maybe more there have experience with working with said board. |
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| 23:19.08 | tantrum | ah, thanks for the hint! I'll check it out |
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| 23:32.00 | tantrum | tantrum: is that debian-arm channel the main support channel for this? |
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| 23:36.17 | foul_owl_ | Is there a safe mode for xorg? I upgraded my 9 system to 10 but now xorg is stuck in a loop where it shows lightdm for about 1 second, then changes back to terminal, over and over, no error messages in xorg log file, I can't copy the log file over because I don't have iwconfig installed |
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| 23:48.42 | somiaj | tantrum: unsure, but they may have people more familar with arm devices, I mostly know pc hardware. |
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| 23:49.16 | somiaj | foul_owl_: You can disable the display manager, and just try to start xorg from a tty using startx, that can often help debug thigns |
| 23:50.27 | tantrum | somiaj: Thanks for the help again, I asked my question there, too - hopefully this is a known issue |
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