| 00:01.26 | *** join/#debian de-facto (~de-facto@gateway/tor-sasl/de-facto) |
| 00:01.37 | Vondex | Good evening everyone. I have a Kingwin USB adapter to connect my SSD to my laptop through the USB port. It has worked in the past through Ubuntu, but not in Debian 10. Is there a package I need to make Debian detect it? |
| 00:02.09 | Vondex | It doesnt show up in dmesg |
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| 00:04.24 | tomreyn | Vondex: so lsusb doesnt list it either? |
| 00:04.37 | Vondex | no, it doesnt |
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| 00:05.12 | tomreyn | Vondex: have you tried a different usb port? which debian version are you on, which kernel (if not default)? |
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| 00:05.37 | tomreyn | and does it have an external power supply you used to use? |
| 00:06.25 | Vondex | I have tried all three ports (USB 3) and it works in none so far. Debian 10 - standard 4.19 kernel (unmodified). No external power supply. |
| 00:06.51 | tomreyn | hmm, and which ubuntu version were you using? |
| 00:07.11 | Gigglebyte | Looks like the only problem with leafpad is that it needs to be updated to the gtk3; other than that it is reall light and quick. It is a shame someone won't pick it up. Liked it better than mousepad. Mousepad is slower. |
| 00:07.19 | tomreyn | Vondex: or which kernel version there if you still remember |
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| 00:10.12 | Vondex | I was using 18.04 and not really sure about the kernel version there. I read that kernel version 5 has better device support. I will try that maybe |
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| 00:10.24 | millaus564578568 | Ciao a tutti :D |
| 00:10.39 | tomreyn | Vondex: you could try the kernel from backports https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/444378 |
| 00:10.53 | Vondex | i will do that. thank you |
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| 00:17.10 | linux_user2 | Yo, yo, yo! Anyone know what this error is and how to fix it? |
| 00:17.11 | linux_user2 | GPG error: http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease: The following signatures were invalid: EXPKEYSIG 04EE7237B7D453EC Debian Archive Automatic Signing Key (9/stretch) <ftpmaster@debian.org> The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 648ACFD622F3D138 |
| 00:18.45 | themill | linux_user2: what release of Debian are you trying to run? what version of debian-archive-keyring do you have installed? |
| 00:18.50 | linux_user2 | debian 10 |
| 00:18.52 | linux_user2 | well 10.1 |
| 00:18.52 | LtL | linux_user2: is debian-archive-keyring and debian-keyring installed? |
| 00:19.03 | linux_user2 | I don't know let me check if either is |
| 00:19.10 | linux_user2 | those are package names, yeah? |
| 00:19.14 | themill | (debian-keyring is not required) |
| 00:19.46 | LtL | they are, yes |
| 00:20.00 | linux_user2 | well I have both! |
| 00:21.06 | linux_user2 | should I reinstall them both? |
| 00:21.21 | themill | what version of debian-archive-keyring do you have? |
| 00:21.31 | linux_user2 | 2019.1 |
| 00:22.30 | themill | Can you pastebin "apt-cache policy debian-archive-keyring; apt-cache policy" for us? |
| 00:23.28 | linux_user2 | one sec |
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| 00:25.38 | linux_user2 | https://pastebin.com/eXTXQVZm |
| 00:27.17 | namll | hello, why would I not be able to all of a sudden not be able to access the canvas website for my school, also the schools website, and the local university? |
| 00:27.25 | namll | I can access all other web pages. |
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| 00:29.48 | tomreyn | linux_user2: why do you have apt sources point to stretch when you run buster? |
| 00:30.04 | linux_user2 | huh? let me check...thats a darn good question! |
| 00:30.40 | tomreyn | and moreover, why dont you have the same apt sources for buster |
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| 00:32.12 | namll | well, now its working. But why wouldnt it have before? It was working from all other IP's but mine. I tested it on my cell phone network. |
| 00:32.48 | tomreyn | namll: some possible explanations: you accidientially switched to a different network connection, such as from wireless to tethered / 4G. you switched to different nameservers. |
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| 00:37.59 | namll | tomreyn: thanks, was just odd with my laptop which was home all day and only had the lid closed. |
| 00:38.44 | tomreyn | you're welcome. |
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| 00:39.35 | linux_user2 | I don't! |
| 00:39.43 | linux_user2 | its pointing to buster |
| 00:39.48 | linux_user2 | let me post the sources.lst |
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| 00:45.27 | tomreyn | linux_user2: then maybe you just forgot to apt update |
| 00:46.06 | themill | linux_user2: are you looking at the same machine? your output of apt-cache policy is not consistent with that statement |
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| 00:47.55 | inna | is there still a need to recompile freetype with a config option set in order to get proper hinting? |
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| 00:48.17 | inna | obviously yes, small font sizes look ugly. |
| 00:48.58 | tomreyn | linux_user2: cat /etc/apt/sources.list{,/*} | nc termbin.com 9999; sudo apt update 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999; apt policy 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999 |
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| 00:51.47 | linux_user2 | back |
| 00:51.56 | linux_user2 | one sec. |
| 00:52.09 | linux_user2 | I did an apt update and that is where the issue showed up |
| 00:52.28 | linux_user2 | themill: I have only one machine |
| 00:53.00 | warsoul | why i cant connect via ssh to a IP but other friend can connect to the same ip |
| 00:53.06 | warsoul | my connection attempt gets time out |
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| 00:53.19 | millaus564578568 | Ciao belli |
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| 00:55.42 | linux_user2 | one sec |
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| 00:55.57 | linux_user2 | let me run that and paste it |
| 00:56.17 | linux_user2 | nc is not on my system |
| 00:56.22 | linux_user2 | let me see if I can install it |
| 00:56.25 | linux_user2 | probably not |
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| 00:56.31 | linux_user2 | but I'll try to install it |
| 00:56.42 | LtL | linux_user2: why not just apt upgrade |
| 00:56.55 | linux_user2 | that didn't work either |
| 00:57.05 | linux_user2 | that did work |
| 00:57.06 | linux_user2 | but |
| 00:57.12 | linux_user2 | something is still broken no? |
| 00:57.37 | tomreyn | probably, unless you fixed it in the meantime |
| 00:57.49 | linux_user2 | themill: I didn't fix anything yet, I am going but what you all tell me |
| 00:58.01 | linux_user2 | I cannot run that command I don't have nc |
| 00:58.04 | linux_user2 | it fails |
| 00:58.44 | tomreyn | okay, i don't know of how to use a pastebin from a tty on a default debian installation unfortunately. |
| 00:59.08 | tomreyn | do you have curl? |
| 00:59.09 | linux_user2 | tomreyn: your idea did not work, I ran apt upgrade, it said nothing to upgrade, then when I ran apt-get update it failed again |
| 00:59.11 | linux_user2 | yes |
| 00:59.27 | linux_user2 | no I have wget |
| 00:59.28 | linux_user2 | not curl |
| 00:59.48 | tomreyn | linux_user2: i did not say you should run "apt upgrade" |
| 00:59.49 | linux_user2 | let me try to apt install curl |
| 01:00.01 | linux_user2 | sure you did |
| 01:00.05 | linux_user2 | you said why not just apt upgrade |
| 01:00.07 | linux_user2 | that is what you said |
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| 01:00.17 | tomreyn | no, *i* did not |
| 01:00.21 | LtL | linux_user2: i said that, try https://packages.debian.org/buster/debian-archive-keyring |
| 01:00.34 | linux_user2 | sorry |
| 01:00.48 | linux_user2 | other in channel chatter and messages it gets confusing |
| 01:01.08 | tomreyn | no problem ;) |
| 01:01.16 | linux_user2 | I am just trying to fix this |
| 01:01.42 | linux_user2 | I am thinking, I am gonna likely have to reinstall the whole machine, I can't believe Debian can get this messed up |
| 01:02.11 | linux_user2 | apt install curl hit some depenancy issue it could not install curl |
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| 01:02.18 | linux_user2 | this system is really broken |
| 01:02.46 | linux_user2 | its my fault as I did an upgrade this time instead of installing from scratch (which is what I normally do for Debian) |
| 01:02.59 | LtL | linux_user2: is anything in, /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ |
| 01:03.04 | themill | There is no need to reinstall anything. |
| 01:03.18 | linux_user2 | hang on let me check ltl |
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| 01:04.44 | linux_user2 | ltl: cat base.list |
| 01:04.44 | linux_user2 | deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main |
| 01:04.45 | linux_user2 | #deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main |
| 01:04.55 | linux_user2 | should I delete that file? |
| 01:05.01 | LtL | linux_user2: get rid of that |
| 01:05.10 | linux_user2 | ok! |
| 01:06.30 | LtL | linux_user2: run update/upgrade after you run this, # apt-get install -f |
| 01:06.44 | linux_user2 | ok |
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| 01:07.18 | linux_user2 | apt-get update still failed but apt-get upgrade says nothing to upgrade |
| 01:07.40 | LtL | same gpg error? |
| 01:08.41 | LtL | linux_user2: try # dpkg --configure -a |
| 01:08.47 | linux_user2 | ok |
| 01:08.59 | linux_user2 | no change |
| 01:09.11 | linux_user2 | it just came back to a pound prompt and apt-get update failed again |
| 01:09.35 | themill | What is actually in your sources.list now? |
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| 01:10.50 | LtL | linux_user2: paste.debian.net |
| 01:11.07 | linux_user2 | huh? |
| 01:11.29 | LtL | paste your /etc/apt/sources.list there |
| 01:11.35 | linux_user2 | ok |
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| 01:14.00 | linux_user2 | https://pastebin.com/7apUiYgW |
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| 01:15.19 | linux_user2 | https://pastebin.com/MCKynyPy |
| 01:15.51 | linux_user2 | that is the most current data from their associative commands as executed and shown in the paste |
| 01:16.31 | linux_user2 | I notices that apt-key list shows stretch keys |
| 01:16.35 | linux_user2 | could that be a problem? |
| 01:17.03 | linux_user2 | https://pastebin.com/FBvjzfPG |
| 01:17.46 | LtL | paste your /etc/apt/sources.list /* not the error output */ |
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| 01:21.04 | linux_user2 | I deleted the stretch keys with apt-key |
| 01:21.16 | themill | yeah, this is not going to go well |
| 01:21.34 | themill | randomly deleting keys was probably how we got here to begin with |
| 01:21.44 | whislock | linux_user2: You REALLY need to learn how to follow instructions. |
| 01:22.00 | linux_user2 | huh? |
| 01:22.17 | linux_user2 | I did |
| 01:22.23 | whislock | You were told to paste your sources.list. Three minutes later, you talked about deleting keys. |
| 01:22.23 | linux_user2 | I paste the apt sources.list it is there |
| 01:22.26 | whislock | No one told you to delete keys. |
| 01:22.27 | themill | linux_user2: do you have /var/lib/cache/apt/archives/debian-archive-keyring*deb |
| 01:22.36 | linux_user2 | let me see |
| 01:22.43 | linux_user2 | lets first deal with the sources.list |
| 01:22.43 | whislock | Thus you're being told to learn how to follow instructions. |
| 01:22.46 | linux_user2 | it was pasted and is there. |
| 01:22.54 | tomreyn | he did indeed post sources.list (if on a different pastebin) https://pastebin.com/raw/MCKynyPy |
| 01:23.03 | whislock | No one told him to delete keys. |
| 01:23.06 | linux_user2 | perhaps whitlock needs to learn how to read |
| 01:23.29 | whislock | I'm not the one mangling my system. Guess my reading skills are adequate. |
| 01:23.43 | themill | let's calm this back down and finish fixing it |
| 01:24.28 | jeddi | 'm getting 'unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages' -- but looking at held (apt-mark showheld, dpkg get selections | grep -v install etc ..) show there are no held packages. |
| 01:24.31 | linux_user2 | themill: there is no /var/lib/cache directory thus none of the subordinate structure |
| 01:24.54 | themill | linux_user2: bah /var/cache/apt/archives/debian-archive-keyring*deb |
| 01:24.59 | LtL | linux_user2: goto https://packages.debian.org/buster/debian-archive-keyring download it and dpkg -i debian-archive-keyring |
| 01:25.10 | linux_user2 | ok |
| 01:25.11 | linux_user2 | one sec |
| 01:25.11 | LtL | not what i asked for... again. |
| 01:25.12 | themill | «wget https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/d/debian-archive-keyring/debian-archive-keyring_2019.1_all.deb» |
| 01:25.29 | linux_user2 | you said do I have it |
| 01:25.35 | linux_user2 | that means are those files there |
| 01:25.43 | linux_user2 | they are not as no such directory exists |
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| 01:26.40 | LtL | themill: i don't think he has wget |
| 01:26.55 | themill | LtL: did earlier |
| 01:27.00 | linux_user2 | actually I do |
| 01:27.16 | LtL | my mistake, use wget then linux_user2 |
| 01:27.40 | linux_user2 | I could not do it as wget said some certificate was expired |
| 01:27.47 | linux_user2 | let me paste bin the whole mess of output |
| 01:27.56 | themill | linux_user2: what's the output of "date" |
| 01:28.03 | tomreyn | jeddi: this error message is a bit misleading. most of the time it means that you requested a change which, with the current cached information on available packages and the current systems' state (installed packages and versions), and most of all in the combination you may have requested, is not satisfiable. |
| 01:28.11 | warsoul | why my connection is getting timed out when try ssh to a ip |
| 01:28.15 | warsoul | was working fine |
| 01:28.28 | linux_user2 | that is very strange! It says it's the year 2037!?! WTF? |
| 01:28.33 | themill | bingo |
| 01:29.11 | LtL | good call themill |
| 01:29.16 | themill | jeddi: what are you trying to upgrade from and to? |
| 01:30.40 | linux_user2 | themill: hang on a sec |
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| 01:30.43 | themill | jeddi: apt's solver calls a package 'held' when it can't upgrade it and it calls it broken when other parts of the same upgrade would break it. It's not always about what you've configured in terms of holds |
| 01:30.59 | linux_user2 | granted there was a lot of residual crap there to be cleaned up too |
| 01:31.16 | linux_user2 | let me see what it does now |
| 01:31.30 | linux_user2 | apt-get update looks very healthy...its still running but no errors yet |
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| 01:35.15 | linux_user2 | themill: the apt-get update is stuck |
| 01:35.27 | linux_user2 | let me make sure nothing on my network is slowing things down. |
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| 01:38.44 | linux_user2 | I must take a break, I have to return an HDMI cable too walmart. |
| 01:38.51 | linux_user2 | I will be back in an hour or so |
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| 01:39.07 | linux_user2 | right now I am going to let apt-get update run and take as long as it needs |
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| 01:40.25 | millaus564578568 | Ciao a Tutto il Canale!!! |
| 01:43.31 | linux_user2 | themill: date was the issue, no one likes a bad date! :) I ran apt-get update, it took a bit, but it worked 100%, disc-upgrade is running now and its upgrading java. Later I will look at why NTP which I always setup to use time.nist.gov is jacked up |
| 01:43.41 | linux_user2 | disc-upgrade = dist-upgrade |
| 01:43.59 | linux_user2 | its loading JRE 11 |
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| 01:44.15 | linux_user2 | be back in a bit |
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| 02:23.19 | millaus564578568 | Hellooooooooooo!!! |
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| 02:24.59 | AndikaSagala | hey.. Saint Vincent College really good... i found something good in their scientific article. |
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| 02:28.45 | bolt | ... |
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| 02:35.07 | jeddi | tomeyn, themill - thanks. i just did a dist-upgrade (via apt-get) from buyllseye to sid - was working okay before, with kde / sddm but after upgrade no session for kde was recognised. tried uninstalling kde-full metapackage and then when i went to install that package again i'm getting a lot of 'REcommends ... but is it not going to be installe |
| 02:35.07 | jeddi | d' with a summary - you have held broken packages. |
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| 02:39.09 | tomreyn | jeddi: you're on sid now, such can happen |
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| 02:40.46 | jeddi | tomreyn yeah ... i've been teetering on sid since the 90's : ) |
| 02:41.27 | tomreyn | maybe you can install apt-forktracer and it can help you sort out the held packages issue. |
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| 02:45.50 | grisher | any idea when ff70 will be in the sid repo? |
| 02:47.06 | dvs | ,v firefox |
| 02:47.07 | judd | Package: firefox on amd64 -- sid: 69.0.2-1 |
| 02:48.39 | jeddi | ooh - forktracer looks interesting tomreyn -- it's reporting a bunch (maybe 60 ) of packages that include some that are definitely off-menu (spotify, postgresql pipeline) that i have installed over the past few months from third party repos. |
| 02:50.32 | jeddi | okay .. removing everything forktracer picked up as potentially uncool (68 packages) |
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| 02:58.35 | jeddi | and ... that didn't help - same error (you have held broken packages' and many 'recommends ... but it is not going to be installed' |
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| 03:10.22 | millaus564578568 | Ciao a Tutti!!! |
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| 03:10.56 | dvs | aloha |
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| 03:53.19 | millaus564578568 | Hellooooooooooo!!! |
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| 04:00.48 | loadmasther | Alo |
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| 04:10.51 | m1kr0n3t | test |
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| 04:14.04 | m1kr0n3t | exit |
| 04:15.34 | berndj | in which package might "lasem" live? apparently something to do with MathML and SVG and a few other things. but nothing in apt-cache search lasem |
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| 04:18.15 | diogenes_ | ,file lasem |
| 04:18.21 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
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| 04:40.24 | millaus564578568 | Ciao a tutti :)) |
| 04:41.14 | warsoul | need help |
| 04:41.23 | warsoul | cant connect to an ip via ssh |
| 04:41.39 | warsoul | everything is working fine just got connected on my phone |
| 04:42.17 | han-solo | it the sshd running on the machine you are trying to connect to ? |
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| 04:42.29 | warsoul | yes |
| 04:42.39 | warsoul | just got connected on my phone with an app |
| 04:42.58 | han-solo | and it is saying `connection refused` when you try `ssh <username>@<ip>` > |
| 04:43.01 | warsoul | i tried to connect with my debian machine and laptop macosx connection gets timed out |
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| 04:43.43 | han-solo | is this machine an AWS instance ? |
| 04:43.54 | warsoul | AWS was that? |
| 04:43.59 | han-solo | never mind |
| 04:44.00 | warsoul | sorry |
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| 04:44.37 | warsoul | just got the vps re-installed |
| 04:44.42 | warsoul | and still the same thing |
| 04:46.00 | han-solo | `iptables -L -v` says anything regarding port 22 ? |
| 04:46.34 | warsoul | bash: iptables: command not found |
| 04:46.39 | warsoul | but dont think so |
| 04:46.45 | warsoul | i get connected to others vps |
| 04:46.49 | warsoul | with no issue |
| 04:48.28 | han-solo | Okay |
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| 04:51.49 | han-solo | last one, what does `nc -vz -w 2 <ip> 22` say ? |
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| 04:54.34 | warsoul | han-solo, vps provider changed the ip and is working |
| 04:54.38 | warsoul | :/ |
| 04:54.57 | han-solo | *shrugs* |
| 04:55.24 | warsoul | dont know what cause the issue |
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| 05:23.19 | millaus564578568 | Ciao belli |
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| 06:10.26 | millaus564578568 | Ciao a tutti :P |
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| 06:12.33 | LilD | hello, i fogot my password for irc |
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| 06:12.45 | LilD | anybody know how to retrieve it |
| 06:12.59 | Unit193 | See /msg NickServ help sendpass |
| 06:13.12 | LilD | ty |
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| 06:19.07 | mrig | Hello, my buster instillation of sqlite3 is apparently not complied with readline support, is there perhaps another binary that I could use that is? |
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| 06:24.10 | superlinux | hello. iptables -L is showing my rules, but they are not effective after updating to debian 10. what should I do to get them working? |
| 06:24.18 | somiaj | mrig: what makes you tink that, sqlite3 depends on libreadline7, which to me suggests it was complied with libreadline support |
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| 06:25.24 | somiaj | superlinux: So you can see the rules, but tests say they aren't working? I do know there is a switch from iptables to nftables in buster, but there is compadbility between the two. |
| 06:25.30 | mrig | somiaj: well it is not working, this is my first assumption, could it be that it is missing the libreadline7 binaries? |
| 06:25.57 | superlinux | somiaj, yes exactly. |
| 06:26.13 | superlinux | I have removed nft right now |
| 06:26.23 | superlinux | I will reboot. |
| 06:26.28 | mrig | dpkg is listing libreadline7. |
| 06:26.28 | dpkg | mrig: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
| 06:26.38 | mrig | heh |
| 06:26.42 | somiaj | mrig: libreadline7 is the libaries, it won't have binaries. I don't know what isn't working, but from what I see libreadline7 support is included in sqlite3 |
| 06:27.03 | somiaj | superlinux: what does ls -l /etc/alternatives/iptables point at? |
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| 06:27.24 | mrig | Yes only if it is compiled with the flag --enable-readline=yes |
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| 06:27.44 | mrig | as it is not working I am assuming that it was not set at compile time. |
| 06:27.56 | somiaj | mrig: you could look at the build source to double check this, but I still don't understand what isn't working, could it be some other issue you are running into. |
| 06:28.12 | superlinux | somiaj, I have just read the debian wiki about the alternatives and switched everything to legacy. |
| 06:28.37 | somiaj | superlinux: hmm, wonder if there is some issue with how you did that. I'm not quite sure on this nft change, and any other things one might need to do. |
| 06:28.38 | mrig | somiaj: the tab completion, sorry if I was not being very explicit. |
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| 06:29.13 | somiaj | mrig: so the tab completion in bash? |
| 06:29.23 | mrig | When in the shell and opening a file, the tab completion for the files name does not function. |
| 06:29.26 | somiaj | (I don't use sqlite so not quite sure what you are talking about) |
| 06:29.37 | superlinux | somiaj, there is a bridge I made to create a transparent squid proxy |
| 06:29.51 | mrig | inside its own shell. |
| 06:29.53 | superlinux | I know I have to use ebtables. |
| 06:30.06 | superlinux | but this is a different issue |
| 06:30.13 | somiaj | superlinux: you might need to wait around for someone who understands this more than I do, I was just double checking the issue wasn't related to the nft switch. |
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| 06:31.09 | superlinux | thanks |
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| 06:32.13 | somiaj | mrig: hmm, not sure what the issue is. But it appears that sqlite is compiled with libreadline7 support in debian. Wonder if there is another reason tab completion is not working for you. |
| 06:32.29 | mrig | Yes when running sqlite3 it has its own shell and command prompt, it is here that the tab completion is not present and can be. |
| 06:32.52 | somiaj | I checked debian/rules, and I don't see any mention of libreadline, though I expect the ./configure script detects it, hence the depends on libreadline |
| 06:33.24 | mrig | It could be that there is some other reason that it does not work, no idea though what that might be. |
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| 06:33.48 | somiaj | mrig: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 11), autoconf (>= 2.59), libtool (>= 1.5.2), automake, chrpath, libreadline-dev, tcl8.6-dev -- libreadline-dev is a build depends, so it is building it with libreadline support |
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| 06:34.20 | mrig | Will that set --enable-readline=yes ? |
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| 06:34.57 | mrig | I imagine that it will also require readline for data entry too? |
| 06:35.12 | somiaj | not exactly, but it will ensure the libreadline-dev files are available during build time, and the ./configure script will automatically detect it and enable it. It mostly like doesn't require one use the --enable-readline=yes flag because of htis. |
| 06:35.46 | somiaj | having never built this, I can't say for certain, but everything I see suggests libreadline support is included. |
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| 06:37.31 | somiaj | so my guess is there is something else causing tab completion to not work for you, and not that libreadline support is missing. |
| 06:38.09 | mrig | What might be the cause of this, have you any ideas? |
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| 06:38.43 | mrig | I have not noticed any problem in other programs, just trying to think of one that would also use the same lib? |
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| 06:41.01 | Lope | I've debootstrapped an installation, I've got dev,proc,sys bind mounted and /dev/sda1 mounted at $chroot/boot run `grub-install dev/sda; update-initramfs -u; update-grub`. There were no kernels in /boot so I uninstalled and reinstalled the kernel. That worked. But then it gave the error: cannot find a GRUB drive for /dev/sda1 check your device.map |
| 06:41.11 | Lope | I tried rebooting, but it won't boot. |
| 06:41.24 | Lope | This is a LUKS installation. |
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| 06:41.57 | Lope | I've got /etc/crypttab setup where it specifies the UUID of /dev/sda2 |
| 06:41.59 | Lope | then I've got |
| 06:42.41 | Lope | /etc/fstab specifying for root, the UUID of the opened LUKS volume |
| 06:42.47 | Lope | ratrace, any ideas? |
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| 07:00.58 | Lope | my bad. I had attempted to wipe grub earlier and forgot that I would also wipe out the partition table. (DD'd zeros to the first 1MB) |
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| 07:01.05 | Lope | I re-created the partition table exactly as it was (from memory), re-mounted everything, `grub install /dev/sda; update-initramfs -u; update-grub` |
| 07:01.09 | Lope | Now it booted just fine. |
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| 07:19.55 | MACscr | whats the proper way to disable cron job email alerts only for certain cron jobs and these cronjobs are installed/managed by a package manager, etc? i know how to do it for tasks i setup in crontab or if i create something in /etc/cron.daily or whatever, but there doesnt seem to be a solid way to manage it for third party managed jobs. Does that make any sense? |
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| 07:47.17 | mrig | I have bash-completion installed and active in my shell, is there any other reason that this might not be working? |
| 07:48.13 | mrig | Is there something that needs configuring when launching a shell within a terminal process? |
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| 07:51.47 | Strum | hi |
| 07:53.02 | Strum | how does display position arrangement work with the display properties app? |
| 07:53.18 | Strum | i can't seem to position the screens |
| 07:53.27 | Strum | click and drag doesn't work |
| 07:53.34 | klys | try xrandr? |
| 07:54.49 | Strum | what is that? |
| 07:55.04 | Strum | sounds like some sort of random number generator |
| 07:55.15 | Strum | got it eventually |
| 07:55.35 | klys | strum, xrandr can be used from the commandline and can position monitors --left-of or --right-of for example. |
| 07:57.17 | Strum | can you run multiple monitors without having X running? |
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| 07:59.31 | klys | strum, I have done that with a matrox G450 or G550 using matroxfb_crtc2.ko |
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| 07:59.55 | ratrace | mrig: for bash, it should JustWork(tm). You sure that the completion you're trying is supported? |
| 08:00.25 | klys | strum, for multihead you probably want X + Xephyr. |
| 08:01.06 | mrig | ratrace: not certain of this, I see that it works on a mac system, no idea if it should on linux, I would have thought so. |
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| 08:01.47 | mrig | Says here that it need be set at compile time : https://superuser.com/questions/499634/enable-autocomplete-in-an-sqlite3-interactive-shell#622282 |
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| 08:02.09 | klys | strum, the con2fbmap utility may work with some cards, if you get another /dev/fb? device for your other monitor. |
| 08:02.52 | mrig | I was thinking about trying to compile it myself to see, tried asking in #debian and it was suggested that the flag would have been set to yes automagicaly. |
| 08:03.16 | klys | strum, also modern cards don't work with fbset, it seems. there was an efort some time ago to replace it. more at: https://github.com/dvdhrm/docs/blob/master/drm-howto/modeset.c |
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| 08:04.43 | Strum | thanks |
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| 08:10.12 | mrig | Oh sorry am in debian :| how embarrassing, thought that this was ##linux, I do apologise. |
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| 08:10.28 | millaus564578568 | Ciao a Tutto il Canale!!! |
| 08:11.02 | jelly | millaus564578568: hi, can you disable the script that says hello automatically every time you join the channel? |
| 08:11.29 | colo-work | :D |
| 08:11.59 | jelly | once a day is probably more than enough |
| 08:12.45 | ratrace | oh jelly where's your frisky youthfulness! CIAO RAGAZZI! *giggles and anime sounds* |
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| 08:19.34 | rabbitear_g | 5 + none, |
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| 08:22.27 | shtrb | Is there a way I could get ink levels when I use cups with double filtering (a laptop that has local cups print to a remote cups machine that has a usb printer) ? the ink app is installed on both cups servers and I am using ipp (Debian buster) |
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| 08:34.08 | boktan | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1849276 can anybody help me with this problem please? |
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| 08:38.57 | ratrace | boktan: no, like we told you yesterday, ask in #ubuntu |
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| 08:39.27 | boktan | no one did help in any room so i try everywhere :/ |
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| 08:40.08 | boktan | everybody is talking about linux codes martix click cklack bom but if i ask any question about a driver everybody is silence :D |
| 08:40.10 | ratrace | boktan: well you can't do that, there's a reason there are separate channels on IRC and not one giant room with thousands of users :) |
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| 08:42.24 | ratrace | boktan: there are also ubuntu forums and mailing lists where more technically knowledgeable people gather. |
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| 08:44.55 | klys | boktan, in this channel I might help with debian kernels. you can get one from https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/debian/pool/main/l/linux/linux-image-5.3.0-1-amd64-unsigned_5.3.7-1_amd64.deb with related packages. |
| 08:45.38 | ratrace | shouldn't use debian kernels on ubuntu though. ubuntu userland relies on their SAUCE patches |
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| 08:46.13 | boktan | :/ |
| 08:46.48 | colo-work | that's a nice feature of Debian kernels, by which you are encouraged to use the Debian userland, too :) |
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| 08:47.21 | colo-work | ubuntu themselves have this, though: https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/ |
| 08:47.55 | boktan | i was on kali linux they said me backbox is better but was giving problems then they said me ubuntu is better and i choice ubuntu now they saying me debian is better but no i will stay ubuntu man :D |
| 08:48.25 | ratrace | boktan: so... #ubuntu then :) |
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| 08:48.38 | klys | boktan, alternatively I would be willing to help you compile this kernel, https://cdn.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v5.x/linux-5.3.7.tar.xz --though you may not be able to use it with ubuntu either. |
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| 08:49.20 | colo-work | most USB wifi sticks are crap |
| 08:49.52 | ratrace | colo-work: mine isn't. it only disconnects once per hour or so, and not every few minutes like the crappy ones :)) |
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| 08:50.15 | boktan | colo-work it was working fine on kali linux zero problem but kali linux cannot let my internal wifi work so i change to ubuntu but yeah internal or external wifi one of them must give problem :D |
| 08:50.51 | boktan | older laptops works better with linux i think |
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| 09:09.20 | fireba11 | boktan: haven't had issues with notbook hardware in years. only using lenovo here though :-D |
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| 09:27.41 | at0m | fireba11: sounds like my old mentor when someone asked him for help. he'd go "i use x i never had that problem" |
| 09:28.26 | at0m | (we'd get along very good, and had better discussions than that, fortunately) |
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| 09:41.47 | shtrb | slips fireball https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P-and-W-Series-Mobile/Lenovo-P52-bricked-by-selecting-BIOS-thunderbolt-support-for/td-p/4207538 |
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| 09:42.52 | ratrace | at0m: hence the WorksForMe(tm) FOSS-y meem. |
| 09:43.46 | at0m | ratrace: eh. always found that quite condescending. doesn't fix anyone's problem. |
| 09:44.36 | ratrace | indeed. |
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| 09:49.03 | at0m | in the case of my old mentor, he'd seen and know things that few others had, and many relied on his skills. big dude, ex soviet military. people would shiver as he walked up to them or entered the room. talked english to him, as that was his native tongue. i talked our local language to him (he had lived here for 20y+, so..) and i guess he much appreciated that :) |
| 09:50.07 | at0m | *as if* that was his native tongue |
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| 09:54.36 | seb__ | hi |
| 09:55.03 | seb__ | what is liboost ? |
| 09:56.20 | seb__ | l don't no, optimisation ? |
| 09:56.21 | at0m | libboost? or single b? the latter doesn't show up in apt search here |
| 09:57.09 | shtrb | ,v libboost |
| 09:57.11 | judd | No package named 'libboost' was found in amd64. |
| 09:57.17 | at0m | ,v libboost1.62 |
| 09:57.18 | judd | No package named 'libboost1.62' was found in amd64. |
| 09:57.25 | seb__ | yes l'm |
| 09:57.44 | shtrb | seb__, apt-cache show liboost will give you some info |
| 09:57.55 | at0m | ,v libboost1.62-dev |
| 09:57.56 | judd | Package: libboost1.62-dev on amd64 -- stretch: 1.62.0+dfsg-4; sid: 1.62.0+dfsg-10+b1 |
| 09:58.01 | seb__ | l try |
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| 09:58.53 | at0m | seb__: what version is running? cat /etc/debian_version |
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| 10:03.38 | seb__ | sorry is oldsable |
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| 10:05.24 | seb__ | l'm on amd64 |
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| 10:06.52 | at0m | seb__: no problem. got an oldstable, too. apt references http://www.boost.org/ , boosting c++ libraries from what i can tell |
| 10:07.16 | seb__ | ok , thancks |
| 10:07.19 | at0m | if double 'b', at least |
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| 10:08.16 | seb__ | aptitude is my prefenre |
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| 10:08.40 | plantroon | is there any way to specify luks version in preseed file? :D |
| 10:09.04 | seb__ | soory |
| 10:09.56 | at0m | seb__: whatever works for you. "aptitude search $term" defaults to returning just package name search results, while "apt search $term" returns results from description, too |
| 10:10.31 | at0m | but getting single/double 'b' right is important for both =) |
| 10:10.39 | seb__ | l have the liboost, another soft for opimise my distro |
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| 10:11.14 | at0m | seb__: that's not in debian, afaik |
| 10:11.19 | seb__ | thx atom |
| 10:13.04 | seb__ | thx |
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| 10:15.05 | seb__ | whith aptitude, l have liboost in 64 bits |
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| 10:24.03 | seb__ | l'm install maybe soft, for metaexploit l chosse tout install soft, bug tarifaire |
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| 10:25.38 | elm_ | yesterday noon I have started reportbug to report a kernel issue (non-vanilla issue) but the program is still hanging at "gathering additional data, this may take a while ..." |
| 10:25.43 | elm_ | what can I do? |
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| 10:28.08 | seb__ | l don' t no, l'm use the 4.09.11, no rt |
| 10:29.18 | ratrace | elm_: try trace it and see where it's hanging? or ctrl-c/pkill it and start again |
| 10:29.33 | seb__ | what additionnel ? |
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| 10:31.20 | seb__ | what is use trace please |
| 10:32.29 | seb__ | sory for my débutant |
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| 10:33.32 | seb__ | l'm french |
| 10:34.04 | elm_ | https://pastebin.com/k7bs23JX |
| 10:34.16 | ratrace | !fr |
| 10:34.16 | dpkg | Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr or #debian-quebec. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr or #debian-quebec. |
| 10:34.32 | seb__ | <ok |
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| 10:36.46 | wrksx | Is this possible to change a file's "owner group" (not sure what's the correct term for that) from user x if x is the owner of the file? I want to do x@server:~$ chown :www-data "somefolder" |
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| 10:37.12 | ratrace | elm_: I'm not sure what that output means... is that the correct PID? |
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| 10:37.36 | wrksx | Currently the permissions are drwxr-xr-x userx nogroup |
| 10:37.46 | ratrace | wrksx: only root can chown |
| 10:38.25 | elm_ | https://pastebin.com/aHvLgCVU |
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| 10:40.02 | ratrace | elm_: can you add f to ps? I'd like to see the tree there |
| 10:40.31 | seb__ | ps is a good comma,d* |
| 10:42.20 | seb__ | ok bon à savoir |
| 10:42.55 | elm_ | the process does not exist any more |
| 10:43.06 | elm_ | ltrace has terminated the process |
| 10:45.20 | elm_ | now it hangs again at "gathering information" |
| 10:45.38 | elm_ | isn`t there a template to send a report by hand? |
| 10:46.03 | wrksx | Okay, I'm goin to describe my problem a bit better. |
| 10:46.04 | wrksx | I have a deploy script for my website that runs under a user called 'deployer'. Once the file have been copied to the correct location, I need to change the permissions on the app/tmp folder to allow the 'www-data' apache user to write to this directory. the current permissions are the following: drwxr-xr-x 7 deployer nogroup 4096 Oct 22 13:27 tmp |
| 10:46.04 | wrksx | How would you handle such a situation? |
| 10:47.04 | ratrace | wrksx: I'd run the application in its dedicated user:group and then I'd make www-data member of that group so it can read its files |
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| 10:47.46 | ratrace | wrksx: that way makes (s)ftp access to the files compatible with www-data being able to read it, and the application storing uploads with as something (s)ftp can interact with |
| 10:48.03 | ratrace | replace (s)ftp with your deployer script for same effect |
| 10:48.46 | wrksx | my application doesn't really "run", its a php script |
| 10:48.51 | wrksx | it's run by apache |
| 10:49.00 | wrksx | But I think I get the idea |
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| 10:49.02 | ratrace | oh mod-php? that's so 1990s |
| 10:49.07 | wrksx | yeah =) |
| 10:49.31 | ratrace | you can STILL do the same. make www-data member of the GROUP that uploads/deploys those files unprivileged. |
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| 10:50.00 | ratrace | alternatively run the deployer as root (dropping privs for any network access) so it can chown/chmod where appropriate |
| 10:50.20 | wrksx | I'm really unconforatable running anything as root |
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| 10:50.52 | honigkuchen | Is it possible, for Installing Debian, not to boot from the installing medium but run the installer from a running linux =? |
| 10:50.57 | ratrace | at some point you'll have to, so better get that fear in check :) |
| 10:51.34 | ratrace | honigkuchen: you can use debootstrap. not directly what you wanted, but gives you far more control ov the installation process |
| 10:52.16 | seb__ | ratrace tou have the stace protol ? |
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| 10:52.44 | ratrace | the what? |
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| 10:53.06 | seb__ | sry |
| 10:53.10 | wrksx | ratrace: Thx for the help |
| 10:54.36 | ratrace | wrksx: as another option if you want to retain www-data ownership, write a script that does the chown/chmod and that "deployer" can run via passwordless sudo |
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| 11:12.02 | elm_ | reportbug is hanging again |
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| 11:13.22 | ratrace | elm_: file a bug against reportbug? :) |
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| 11:16.05 | elm_ | https://pastebin.com/j9GtPZr8 |
| 11:16.10 | elm_ | what shall I report? |
| 11:16.18 | elm_ | I have no backtrace yet |
| 11:16.29 | elm_ | which process would you trace |
| 11:16.41 | elm_ | the kernel bug is far more important |
| 11:16.58 | elm_ | how can I gain standard system information to attach to the report |
| 11:17.40 | ratrace | elm_: maybe this helps: https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting |
| 11:18.55 | seb__ | help distroy trace, lol |
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| 11:20.18 | elm_ | I don´t see the script to gather system information |
| 11:20.27 | elm_ | what shall I attach for a kernel report |
| 11:20.34 | ratrace | elm_: you were tracing the topmost process, but does it not hang at thte innermost child, the `dd`? |
| 11:20.59 | elm_ | i have marked the processes of reportbug with a star |
| 11:22.13 | themill | it's in /usr/share/bug/linux-image-$(uname -r) |
| 11:22.46 | seb__ | scripttday |
| 11:23.17 | funabashi | Hi all maybe someone can be nice and help me out with my problem with source.lst... https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/F8PdfVJ5Ds/ |
| 11:23.56 | seb__ | source list lol |
| 11:25.04 | themill | funabashi: "stretch/sid" isn't a thing; what release of Debian do you actually want to be running |
| 11:25.37 | seb__ | l don't no |
| 11:25.38 | ratrace | that's ubuntu.... :) |
| 11:26.38 | seb__ | l know |
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| 11:27.29 | seb__ | aptitude maybe |
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| 11:28.02 | jelly | how can you tell it's ubuntu? |
| 11:28.27 | seb__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:28.56 | themill | seb__: I think that's enough, thanks |
| 11:29.31 | seb__ | l don't no, my englâh â medi#debian,#debian-facile,#df-flood,#debianfrcre |
| 11:29.35 | ratrace | jelly: that's the content of debian_version on ubuntu, no? |
| 11:29.43 | themill | ratrace: no |
| 11:30.03 | jelly | "it depends" |
| 11:30.37 | ratrace | it depends on ubuntu version yes. eg. bionic has buster/sid |
| 11:30.58 | ratrace | I think stretch/sid was xenial but don't quote me on that |
| 11:31.04 | seb__ | why unbutu ? |
| 11:31.26 | themill | ratrace: it was also stretch, 3 years ago. |
| 11:31.40 | funabashi | any one know how to make a source.lst which can work ? |
| 11:31.42 | ratrace | themill: hmmm? |
| 11:31.47 | seb__ | ok |
| 11:31.57 | themill | funabashi: what release of Debian do you actually want to be running |
| 11:32.23 | themill | funabashi: you have a machine that you have not looked after for about 3 years |
| 11:32.33 | seb__ | streche |
| 11:32.35 | funabashi | themill: i want to be able to install a program with aptget install |
| 11:32.45 | themill | funabashi: that doesn't answer the question |
| 11:33.02 | funabashi | themill: i dont know what release of Debian im running to be honest |
| 11:33.04 | seb__ | sry |
| 11:33.21 | jelly | funabashi: what does "lsb_release -a" command say? pastebin the whole thing |
| 11:33.26 | themill | funabashi: you can try upgrading that to stretch. That might work. |
| 11:33.53 | funabashi | Description: Ubuntu 17.10 artful |
| 11:33.58 | ratrace | drops mic and leaves the stage with a smug face |
| 11:34.23 | themill | ratrace: do understand that is nothing but luck |
| 11:34.36 | seb__ | pt update && apt install pluma terminator most mlocate locate rar unrar sudo |
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| 11:35.46 | seb__ | not luck, l have a diplome |
| 11:35.59 | funabashi | jelly and next ? :) |
| 11:36.24 | themill | funabashi: it looks like you have a mess of Debian and Ubuntu. Reinstall it. |
| 11:37.01 | funabashi | themill: do you know any other solution else i wait for anyone else who can find one, thanks |
| 11:38.02 | seb__ | gnu/linux is not reinst all |
| 11:38.07 | jelly | funabashi: this may have been an ubuntu installation, or a derivative that mixed both ubuntu and debian, or a custom mix. Was it you or someone else that installed it? Can you find out precisely which distro was there initially? |
| 11:38.27 | seb__ | ok |
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| 11:39.01 | funabashi | jelly: i dont remeber the iso file was few years ago |
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| 11:39.51 | humpled | what is making you prefer to upgrade over reinstall? |
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| 11:40.05 | jelly | funabashi: then the sanest way forward is what theââmill said |
| 11:41.02 | funabashi | :/ |
| 11:41.26 | jelly | funabashi: I can't, in good faith, tell you to do a release upgrade to ubuntu 18.04 lts (xenial), or to debian 9 (stretch), because it might break things that work right now |
| 11:41.54 | jelly | backup home and all the other data, reinstall, restore data |
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| 11:42.47 | funabashi | i wont reboot that server |
| 11:43.31 | funabashi | If i clear the source.lst file and i do apt-get update i still get lots of shit. any idea how can i purge it? |
| 11:44.08 | jelly | I wouldn't touch that kind of setup for less than $200/hour, sorry |
| 11:44.21 | themill | looks suspiciously at jelly's m |
| 11:44.37 | ratrace | dollars? u cheap. I wouldn't touch that for less than 200⬠|
| 11:44.39 | Fox | 200 is not that much |
| 11:45.11 | ratrace | also.... server? in a role that shouldn't be rebooted? All hands to facepalm stations. All hands to facepalm stations. Capt'n picard has insufficient hands of facepalm. Yellow alert! |
| 11:45.13 | funabashi | a linux geek has that kind of 200 per hour? |
| 11:45.26 | funabashi | its more then me :/ |
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| 11:46.25 | ratrace | funabashi: that's per incident, 200⬠/ hr sounds about right. that's not regular sysadmin salary unless maybe you're a fortune 5 company |
| 11:46.31 | funabashi | aha |
| 11:46.35 | funabashi | thats nothing |
| 11:46.52 | funabashi | i do 150 per hour for security guy |
| 11:47.01 | funabashi | euro |
| 11:47.08 | jelly | that's very similar. |
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| 11:49.53 | brokencycle | that they overlap. |
| 11:50.07 | brokencycle | Hi! I am struggling with a 4T disk with a GPT partition. It claims I have two partitions, but saying 'i' or 'p' print only one. The problem is it claims |
| 11:50.10 | brokencycle | that they overlap. |
| 11:50.18 | brokencycle | sorry for the typo. :( |
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| 11:56.49 | tsglove | Is there a directory that is NOT preserved during a reboot? I thought /var/tmp was preserved, yet I was wrong. --- reading this --> https://superuser.com/questions/168125/how-long-are-files-kept-in-var-tmp-and-how-to-use-the-directory/168127 |
| 11:57.23 | funabashi | jelly: cant u please help me |
| 11:58.18 | ratrace | tsglove: traditionally /var/tmp should be and on debian at least, is, by default. |
| 11:58.36 | ratrace | funabashi: they did, recommended the sanest solution: reinstall. |
| 11:59.01 | tsglove | ratrace, so /var/tmp is preserved during a reboot? |
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| 11:59.34 | ratrace | tsglove: should be per hier(7) and I'm not aware of a default mechanism (other than a custom tmpfiles setup) that would clear it out |
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| 12:00.08 | tsglove | ratrace, ok thanks. Just learned that. Which is an error on my side, truthfully. |
| 12:00.13 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:00.35 | tsglove | So something inside /tmp will not survive a reboot? |
| 12:00.55 | ratrace | tsglove: depends on the setup, but per hier(7) /tmp must not be considered persistent. |
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| 12:01.22 | tsglove | hier(7) ??? searching... |
| 12:01.32 | ratrace | `man 7 hier` |
| 12:01.49 | funabashi | anyone know how to delete all from source.lst and secure keys.. etc? |
| 12:02.10 | tsglove | ratrace, cool! Thanks. REading up now. |
| 12:02.18 | ratrace | tsglove: i'm also not aware of a default mechanism on debian that clears out /tmp (note:default) but then I don't install debian from installer, I use debootstrap so my setup could be different in that regard. |
| 12:02.41 | ratrace | (and I mount it as tmpfs) |
| 12:02.57 | CrystalMath | ratrace: RAMTMP=yes |
| 12:03.08 | ratrace | CrystalMath: where? |
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| 12:03.21 | CrystalMath | /etc/default/tmpfs |
| 12:03.38 | ratrace | I don't have that file... lemme see what apt-file says |
| 12:03.45 | CrystalMath | there's also RAMSHM |
| 12:03.52 | ratrace | initscripts? that's before systemd? |
| 12:04.27 | CrystalMath | yeah, i don't run crap |
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| 12:04.28 | ratrace | doesn't look like package installed regularly |
| 12:04.49 | ratrace | right, so for 99.9999% of debian users, that advice is moot :) |
| 12:04.51 | funabashi | https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/m2Vzsh4xNy/ how can i delete /clean those lines? |
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| 12:05.35 | CrystalMath | sysvinit-core pulls in initscripts |
| 12:05.36 | jelly | funabashi: I can help after 17:00UTC, you know my hourly rate. /msg if interested. |
| 12:06.12 | ratrace | CrystalMath: that's not installed by default afaik |
| 12:06.15 | *** part/#debian malm (~nil@mware.se) |
| 12:06.21 | CrystalMath | my modified debian installer stuff installs sysvinit-core by default |
| 12:06.36 | ratrace | so you're not talking about stock Debian? |
| 12:06.42 | CrystalMath | i don't consider it a fork of debian though... it's just a slight difference |
| 12:07.08 | CrystalMath | debian fully supports sysvinit-core... |
| 12:07.16 | ratrace | not for long :) |
| 12:07.52 | funabashi | jelly: $ sudo apt-get update |
| 12:07.52 | funabashi | Reading package lists... Done |
| 12:07.57 | funabashi | ;) |
| 12:08.14 | CrystalMath | i may switch to runit |
| 12:08.20 | CrystalMath | i'm using OpenRC now |
| 12:08.24 | ratrace | funabashi: you know the rates, when that system fails apart in the near future :) |
| 12:08.35 | ratrace | CrystalMath: thats cool. |
| 12:09.12 | CrystalMath | so i don't even use my own set defaults, heh |
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| 12:09.45 | ratrace | CrystalMath: I'd love to use openrc, but it doesn't support the features I need (and systemd provides). |
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| 12:10.30 | CrystalMath | ratrace: what sort of feature? |
| 12:11.26 | ratrace | CrystalMath: kernel security features, filesystem view restrictions, seccomp and caps, all nicely configurable within single unit file, per service. |
| 12:11.41 | CrystalMath | isn |
| 12:11.44 | ratrace | also resource management |
| 12:11.45 | CrystalMath | *isn't that just cgroups stuff? |
| 12:11.49 | ratrace | it's not |
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| 12:12.37 | rsarson | hi! i'm on debian 10 with buster-backports. when i type 'dpkg -l 'gcc-9*' i see lots of 'gcc-9-<arch>-linux-gun' but not 'gcc-9', so i can't install gcc-9. why does dpkg -l show all of these? |
| 12:12.43 | CrystalMath | well okay caps aren't, but, i'm sure that wrapper scripts can be written for that |
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| 12:13.21 | ratrace | CrystalMath: yes they can. I tried. gave up after a week of getting nowhere :) |
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| 12:13.45 | CrystalMath | anyway, systemd also has some harmful features i don't want, specifically logind |
| 12:13.48 | ratrace | systemd is a steaming pile in many ways, but right now it's the most feature complete middleware on the market. nothing comes close to that. |
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| 12:15.02 | CrystalMath | ratrace: i see no logical reason for you to hate the alternatives though |
| 12:15.19 | CrystalMath | i mean, i'm not asking for systemd to be removed.. |
| 12:15.32 | CrystalMath | i'm advocating for the status quo |
| 12:15.36 | ratrace | CrystalMath: I don't hate them. What I hate is Debian's split-mind about it. It should go full systemd and leave alternatives to dedicated efforts like devuan. |
| 12:16.02 | ratrace | because... due to that split mind, by default systemd units in debian are crap, they have to be, in order to support sysv |
| 12:16.04 | CrystalMath | idk, i wouldn't like that at all... i think the init system should be interchangeable |
| 12:16.21 | ratrace | not everything can be interchangeable |
| 12:16.24 | CrystalMath | like, why not make separate packages |
| 12:16.37 | CrystalMath | somepackage-scripts (for sysvinit) |
| 12:16.39 | ratrace | also the reason why I take advantage of full PostgreSQL SQL dialect and don't rely on abstract ORMs |
| 12:16.42 | CrystalMath | somepackage-systemd (for systemd) |
| 12:16.55 | ratrace | CrystalMath: who will do that :) and who will pay them :) |
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| 12:17.16 | jezebel | was systemd even designed for that possibility? |
| 12:17.20 | CrystalMath | well like, they'd be separate add-on packages, where somepackage depends on somepackage-scripts | somepackage-systemd |
| 12:17.32 | CrystalMath | or the other way around |
| 12:17.37 | CrystalMath | to respect the chosen default |
| 12:17.44 | ratrace | abstractions, portability, freedom of choice.... all lukewarm debilitation of software that has full potential if used dedicatedly. |
| 12:18.00 | ratrace | instead, approaches like having dedicated distros for specific purpose, that's the ticket. |
| 12:18.02 | CrystalMath | i don't really see any difficulty in this |
| 12:18.11 | ratrace | that's why I think Devuan is a good thing, it fills the proper niche. |
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| 12:18.37 | CrystalMath | devuan still isn't a proper fork though, it's just a set of patches really |
| 12:18.39 | ratrace | CrystalMath: the difficulty is in TIME and EFFORT needed. Who is going to do that? build and configure services for different inits? lolno. |
| 12:18.54 | CrystalMath | ratrace: everyone configures things for the init they care about |
| 12:19.29 | ratrace | jezebel: what possibility? |
| 12:19.36 | CrystalMath | let's say, someone maintains "somepackage", and creates "somepackage-systemd" only |
| 12:19.47 | ratrace | CrystalMath: sure, that's why for all the services I use, I write custom systemd units, because defaults stink. |
| 12:19.48 | CrystalMath | then someone says "ah, i want somepackage, but with sysv" |
| 12:19.59 | CrystalMath | so they make "somepackage-sysv" |
| 12:20.01 | ratrace | and you can't change defaults, they have to be like that because the service must be able to run under sysv too.... |
| 12:20.44 | jezebel | ratrace⦠splitting it up, integrating with it without it taking your software over |
| 12:21.14 | CrystalMath | ratrace: if there's a devuan, there can be people writing init script replacements for everything |
| 12:21.19 | ratrace | jezebel: the splitting CrystalMath suggested is not of systemd, but of programs that would run under either of the inits |
| 12:21.31 | jelly | CrystalMath: if you want to help with that, there's an init-diversity team |
| 12:21.45 | CrystalMath | jelly: oh, nice :) |
| 12:21.51 | ratrace | jezebel: systemd itself doesn't care. distro maintainers can configure it to be pure init only, or full shebang with all of its components replacing things like ntp, dnsmasq, ... |
| 12:22.16 | CrystalMath | ratrace: can one disable logind and seat management? |
| 12:22.24 | jelly | CrystalMath: they have a mailing list. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/debian-init-diversity |
| 12:22.29 | CrystalMath | ratrace: that would make me consider systemd |
| 12:22.42 | jezebel | then other tings that integrate with that would break it seems |
| 12:22.45 | jezebel | things* |
| 12:22.46 | ratrace | CrystalMath: you don' thave to run it. but then you'll have problem with programs that are migrating to that api, that's why elogind is now replacing consolekit |
| 12:22.57 | CrystalMath | ratrace: i don't use consolekit |
| 12:23.02 | CrystalMath | consolekit is just as bad |
| 12:23.04 | jezebel | too many tentacles |
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| 12:23.27 | CrystalMath | the way i see it, consolekit never left, it just turned into an init system, and that's horrible |
| 12:23.51 | ratrace | jezebel: systemd isn't taking over anything. systemd THE PROJECT has a lot of components because it wants to be full OS middleware. one can still run just PID 1, "the init" and not care about the otehr components. |
| 12:24.31 | ratrace | that's still the case in debian from what I know. still doesn't use systemd-resolved, systemd-networkd by default for example. |
| 12:24.58 | CrystalMath | oh, networkd is a terrible idea too |
| 12:25.02 | ratrace | CrystalMath: meanwhile the pacakge is dead, and (desktop) applications nowadays expect the logind API to be available. hence elogind. |
| 12:25.03 | CrystalMath | i don't use networkmanager |
| 12:25.15 | jezebel | get ready for homed |
| 12:25.29 | CrystalMath | ratrace: right, but no application i use requires that interface |
| 12:25.32 | ratrace | why? you don't have to use homed |
| 12:25.44 | funabashi | I have now found out it runnning ubuntu xenial |
| 12:26.16 | jezebel | until other things are built assuming homed and then they break if i dont use homed |
| 12:26.59 | ratrace | I think you don't understand homed at all then :) applications can't "assume" homed because homed doesn't do anything but encapsulate a portable, encrypted ~/ (with caveats) |
| 12:27.12 | jezebel | give it time |
| 12:27.15 | ratrace | ~/ itself will not change in any way. |
| 12:27.37 | CrystalMath | meh, i can do that myself with FUSE |
| 12:27.48 | ratrace | CrystalMath: no you can't :) not what homed is trying to achieve. |
| 12:28.13 | ratrace | or maybe you can if you wrote a full daemon that uses FUSE but then you ...... wrote homed-fused :) |
| 12:28.55 | ratrace | jezebel: give what time? there's a nice talk about homed, I can unearth the link if you want, it explains what it wants to achieve. I personally dislike that approach but who cares, it's just a daemon I can completely ignore. |
| 12:29.11 | jezebel | mounted home dirs are nothing new really |
| 12:29.23 | jezebel | why hang it off systemd? |
| 12:29.30 | ratrace | watch the talk and you'll see |
| 12:29.48 | ratrace | meanwhile you're hating something and displaying pure ignorance by hating something you obviously do not understand one bit. |
| 12:29.56 | CrystalMath | anyway, my problem is logind and "seat management" as a concept |
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| 12:30.21 | CrystalMath | i just log into a terminal |
| 12:30.36 | Habbie | ratrace, my debian buster most definitely uses systemd-resolved by default |
| 12:30.36 | CrystalMath | and i believe that getting to root without setuid should be forbidden |
| 12:30.39 | CrystalMath | it makes things simpler |
| 12:30.51 | jezebel | i've forgotten the specifics admittedly but systemd just isnt my thing |
| 12:31.10 | ratrace | Habbie: weird because mine doesn't. installed via installer, no desktop (using i3-wm) |
| 12:31.20 | Habbie | ratrace, i have gnome |
| 12:31.36 | ratrace | Habbie: I think NM then called upon it |
| 12:31.41 | Habbie | ratrace, possible |
| 12:31.43 | Habbie | ratrace, i did not investigate |
| 12:31.58 | ratrace | jezebel: if you're interested: https://cfp.all-systems-go.io/ASG2019/talk/VSQRXA/ |
| 12:32.40 | jezebel | i'll need to watch it again sometime |
| 12:32.48 | ratrace | that's about homed specifically. |
| 12:33.13 | ratrace | I can see why they want to do it, it's not something I'd ever use it but I can imagine corporate and school environments that benefit from those concepts |
| 12:33.27 | ratrace | especially the mechanism that erases encryption key when the laptop goes to sleep |
| 12:34.05 | CrystalMath | right, it sounds useful |
| 12:34.14 | CrystalMath | but as long as it's a part of systemd, it will have a logind dependency |
| 12:34.30 | jezebel | tentacles |
| 12:34.34 | CrystalMath | and depend on a way to get root access without setuid |
| 12:34.37 | ratrace | well yes, the session needs to be managed |
| 12:34.46 | CrystalMath | i strongly oppose any such thing |
| 12:34.47 | ratrace | if it's not logind, then it's consolekit, if you want managed sessions |
| 12:35.03 | CrystalMath | ratrace: i explicitly do not want managed sessions |
| 12:35.11 | CrystalMath | ratrace: you know how i check whether a distro is good or not? |
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| 12:35.20 | ratrace | I really don't care :) |
| 12:35.21 | CrystalMath | ratrace: i try typing "reboot" (without sudo) as a regular user |
| 12:35.32 | CrystalMath | ratrace: if it reboots, it sucks |
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| 12:35.44 | CrystalMath | simple test |
| 12:35.45 | ratrace | CrystalMath: are you confusing suid with (configurable) polkit policies? |
| 12:35.59 | CrystalMath | i support setuid, i oppose polkit |
| 12:35.59 | jezebel | anyways, autofs |
| 12:36.19 | CrystalMath | if /sbin/reboot is a setuid binary, then that's fine |
| 12:36.28 | CrystalMath | but if it's using polkit, the distro is bad |
| 12:36.48 | CrystalMath | there should be zero routes to root outside suid |
| 12:37.14 | ratrace | messaging via dbus is more secure than suid |
| 12:37.28 | CrystalMath | it's too complicated and shouldn't be allowed |
| 12:37.33 | ratrace | with suid, you give temporarily full root privilege to perform an action. |
| 12:37.36 | CrystalMath | besides, if you add anything other than suid, you have to keep suid |
| 12:37.49 | CrystalMath | this is a *nix.. |
| 12:37.50 | ratrace | with messaging you don't give ANY privilege to the user, you just send a message to a daemon that listens for it. |
| 12:38.01 | ratrace | CrystalMath: LINUX = Linux Is Not UniX |
| 12:38.23 | ratrace | so no, this is not unix. unix is unix, you can use BSDs if you want pure unix. stop preventing linux from evolving away from 1980s |
| 12:39.28 | avu | that's so not where the name comes from but I like it nontheless :) |
| 12:39.34 | ratrace | avu: I know :) |
| 12:39.46 | ratrace | the acronym accidentally fits nicely ;) |
| 12:39.47 | CrystalMath | ratrace: the thing is, you can't drop suid compatibility |
| 12:40.02 | ratrace | CrystalMath: what's "suid compatibility"? |
| 12:40.08 | CrystalMath | ratrace: suid has to work |
| 12:40.15 | Habbie | CrystalMath, so? |
| 12:40.15 | Fox | maybe #debian-offtopic would be the right place to talk about that ? :) |
| 12:40.33 | ratrace | CrystalMath: and it does. it's still less secure than messaging over dbus |
| 12:40.42 | CrystalMath | Fox: and to think the conversation started with just tmpfs |
| 12:40.44 | ratrace | %s/dbus/ipc/ |
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| 12:40.54 | Fox | stick to tmpfs then :) |
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| 12:41.31 | CrystalMath | ratrace: anyway, i definitely want to use linux as a typical unix system |
| 12:41.43 | funabashi | jezebel: themill its fixed :) |
| 12:41.43 | ratrace | CrystalMath: you totally have that option. :) |
| 12:42.26 | CrystalMath | ratrace: what i did, was add a critical package that conflicts with dbus |
| 12:42.40 | CrystalMath | it's a variant of "your-sanity" |
| 12:42.51 | ratrace | so basically you're not using any desktop application? |
| 12:43.17 | ratrace | on debian at least, they're built with dbus support where applicable |
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| 12:43.39 | CrystalMath | i am.. |
| 12:43.42 | ratrace | (and as an offtopic side note, I used to run gentoo 100% dbus-free until FF started to hard depend on it being _present_ though not necessarily run, to work) |
| 12:43.52 | CrystalMath | ratrace: libdbus is installed |
| 12:44.16 | CrystalMath | although i've been working on replacing the library with a trojan that will completely avoid doing anything |
| 12:44.26 | ratrace | I think you mean "a shim" :) |
| 12:44.39 | CrystalMath | yeah, i guess |
| 12:44.44 | ratrace | call it elibdbus :) |
| 12:44.58 | CrystalMath | i have a shell script that autogenerates a clone of a library |
| 12:45.06 | CrystalMath | but all the functions just do "return 0;" |
| 12:45.18 | CrystalMath | (the script uses various binutils to generate C code and then gcc) |
| 12:45.34 | ratrace | sounds like a security disaster waiting to happen, esp. with things wanting polkit around |
| 12:46.12 | CrystalMath | why is it a security disaster? they will want root through polkit, and won't get it |
| 12:46.32 | ratrace | CrystalMath: apps don't want "root through polkit" |
| 12:46.48 | ratrace | they ask for specific permissions. polkit is more like RBAC, it doens't give out root at all |
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| 12:47.05 | CrystalMath | ratrace: yeah but they won't get any permissions |
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| 12:47.50 | ratrace | why not just build a LFS, or even gentoo, and set it up grounds up the way you want it? |
| 12:48.03 | ratrace | far easier than trying to bend Debian into that |
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| 12:49.15 | jelly | blinks |
| 12:49.30 | jelly | ratrace: Debian is an excellent plaform. |
| 12:49.46 | CrystalMath | ratrace: debian has a ton of great packages :) |
| 12:49.52 | CrystalMath | ratrace: i don't want to compile stuff |
| 12:49.54 | ratrace | jelly: for a fork? yes, I agree. |
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| 12:50.28 | jezebel | i find that smells a bit 'leave if you dont like it' |
| 12:51.04 | CrystalMath | ratrace: right now, i just don't have dbus installed |
| 12:51.06 | ratrace | jelly: with what I said? not at all, I genuinely think gentoo or LFS are better suited for building such a very custom system. |
| 12:51.10 | CrystalMath | ratrace: everything works |
| 12:51.12 | ratrace | jelly: ^^^ |
| 12:51.17 | ratrace | argh! jezebel ! :) |
| 12:51.40 | CrystalMath | i know which packages require dbus |
| 12:51.59 | CrystalMath | they actually require dbus, rather than just libdbus |
| 12:52.08 | ratrace | yeah the client side |
| 12:52.23 | CrystalMath | so i avoid those of course |
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| 12:52.27 | CrystalMath | but there's nothing i'm missing here |
| 12:52.56 | CrystalMath | i have tons of desktop applications |
| 12:53.06 | CrystalMath | even some gnome stuff (dia) |
| 12:53.37 | ratrace | I think it should be possible to use elogind, so you can reap the benefits of managed sessions |
| 12:53.48 | CrystalMath | i don't want managed sessions |
| 12:54.09 | CrystalMath | i would rather use systemd, but without logind.... |
| 12:54.20 | jelly | ratrace: I genuinely do not want to deal with lfs ever. |
| 12:54.38 | CrystalMath | systemd without logind would not be so bad at all |
| 12:54.49 | CrystalMath | it wouldn't be any different from any unix-respecting init |
| 12:54.52 | ratrace | jelly: indeed it's a pain :) |
| 12:55.20 | ratrace | CrystalMath: why you hate logind so much, what do you think it does and it shouldn't :) |
| 12:55.20 | CrystalMath | also, i don't want to stop you from evolving away from the 80s, but as for me, i want to stay there |
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| 12:55.32 | CrystalMath | ratrace: it shouldn't allow things to get root without suid |
| 12:55.42 | jelly | CrystalMath: you'll want to look at elogind stuff in experimental and see how hard it is to backport it to make things that really really want logind stop complaining |
| 12:55.52 | ratrace | CrystalMath: logind does no such thing |
| 12:56.14 | jelly | but that's out of scope for #debian |
| 12:56.17 | humpled | <PROTECTED> |
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| 12:57.07 | ratrace | elogind, btw, is currently the reason for drama over whether Debian should continue support "init freedom" or go systemd full monty. |
| 12:57.48 | klys | sysvinit to the max: install a basic development kit, which exposes inittab internals to the user. encourage all users to rewrite /sbin/init from scratch! |
| 12:58.02 | CrystalMath | i wrote an 83-byte init |
| 12:58.41 | CrystalMath | oops, sorry, 89-byte |
| 12:58.43 | klys | be stepping through there with gdb right out of the box! |
| 12:58.44 | CrystalMath | but it's 32-bit |
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| 12:59.37 | klys | jelly, thank you for linking the debian-init-diversity ml. I may be reading that today. |
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| 13:00.52 | strk1 | apt-get -qqy --purge remove ... #still prints lots of (Reading database ... 5% ... What switches would stop doing that ? |
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| 13:02.36 | klys | strk1, have you tried setting Dpkg::Progress |
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| 13:04.09 | strk1 | nope, how to do that globally once and for all ? (it is for CI work) |
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| 13:07.47 | klys | zless /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/configure-index.gz |
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| 13:09.19 | jak2000 | hi all, with php how to get server uptime? |
| 13:10.51 | Habbie | jak2000, read /proc/uptime |
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| 13:11.54 | jelly | jak2000: system("uptime"); |
| 13:11.58 | jelly | hides |
| 13:12.20 | jak2000 | i read but not get the correct.... date/time |
| 13:13.09 | strk1 | I did not understand apt-config, am I right it does NOT write any file on disk ? |
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| 13:14.22 | Habbie | jak2000, uptime is a length of time, not a date/time |
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| 13:20.34 | nsa_ | jak2000: 'uptime' shows the local OS's uptime |
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| 13:21.27 | nsa_ | jak2000: 'date' shows the local time |
| 13:21.29 | jelly | jak2000: do you want the answer to the question "when was this system booted" instead? |
| 13:21.46 | jelly | because that one is _not_ easy to find out in general case |
| 13:22.03 | CorvetteZR1 | hello. is chromium-browser 77+ coming to deb mirrors? |
| 13:22.13 | jelly | (uptime does not increase while a system is suspended, for example) |
| 13:22.14 | greycat | It's kind of a difficult thing for the system to keep track of. The clock may not be set correctly at the moment of boot. |
| 13:22.28 | jelly | CorvetteZR1: that's very likely. |
| 13:22.37 | ratrace | sudo journalctl | head -n 1 | awk '{ print $6, $7, $8}' |
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| 13:23.35 | nsa_ | date might show the local time, linux is like a firery red headed companion |
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| 13:24.08 | greycat | date shows the system time, represented in the time zone you asked it to use (unless you use the -u option, in which case it's shown in UTC) |
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| 13:24.36 | nsa_ | yes, precision of indecision |
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| 13:28.16 | MarioMey | Hello there. Yesterday I installed Buster. After installing wifi USB firmware, device finds all available connections, but it doesnt connect to internet. |
| 13:28.32 | MarioMey | Why? And how to fix this? |
| 13:29.02 | klys | mariomey, can you ping your router |
| 13:29.14 | MarioMey | Before yesterday, Stretch connected well. |
| 13:29.22 | MarioMey | Klys no. |
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| 13:29.37 | MarioMey | It doesnt connect to router. |
| 13:29.49 | ratrace | MarioMey: does it get an IP? via DHCP presumably |
| 13:29.52 | klys | mariomey, can you paste the output of iwlist wlan0 scan; or similar? |
| 13:30.42 | MarioMey | Unfortunatly, computer is not connected to internet. Im with phone |
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| 13:31.02 | MarioMey | It's a desktop computer and router is far |
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| 13:31.08 | klys | mariomey, just a screenshot would be okay, or you could try and describe it |
| 13:31.39 | klys | mariomey, are you saying there is no router at your present location? |
| 13:31.40 | MarioMey | Wait |
| 13:33.21 | MarioMey | Klis all availables connections appear |
| 13:33.58 | MarioMey | Isnt any Telegram group for #debian? |
| 13:34.02 | klys | mariomey, does your preferred network have pairwise cipher: CCMP and group cipher: CCMP ? or does it say TKIP? |
| 13:34.08 | MarioMey | I could takw photos |
| 13:34.19 | karlpinc | MarioMey: If necessary you can take a picture with your phone and post it to a paste site. |
| 13:34.21 | karlpinc | !paste |
| 13:34.21 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 13:34.56 | MarioMey | Klis: CCMP |
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| 13:36.45 | klys | mariomey, https://paste.debian.net/1109311/ |
| 13:37.26 | klys | mariomey, save this paste and edit it, to something like ~/net/wpa_supplicant.conf |
| 13:37.53 | klys | mariomey, # wpa_supplicant -Dwext -iwlan0 -c ~/net/wpa_supplicant.conf & |
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| 13:38.14 | klys | mariomey, you may have to kill network-manager first |
| 13:39.34 | klys | mariomey, please report if you see a message such as CTRL-EVENT-CONNECTED |
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| 13:40.17 | wrksx | ratrace: I successfuly used your group setup suggestion, thank you for that =) working great |
| 13:40.33 | ratrace | wrksx: you're welcome. |
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| 13:42.22 | MarioMey | Klis: to kill gvfsd-network? |
| 13:42.30 | klys | mariomey, go ahead |
| 13:42.46 | klys | make sure to kill any remaining wpa_supplicant process also. |
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| 13:45.50 | MarioMey | How do i know my drivers name? |
| 13:45.55 | MarioMey | Klis |
| 13:46.02 | MarioMey | Klys |
| 13:46.11 | klys | mariomey, your driver is running because you see the wlan0 or similar interface |
| 13:46.28 | klys | if it was not running that would not work with iwlist either |
| 13:46.56 | klys | mariomey, lsmod > lsmod.txt and look through that when you feel it's time to identify your hardware. |
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| 13:48.12 | OS-58094 | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:48.32 | klys | os-58094 get outta here |
| 13:48.45 | OS-58094 | lmao |
| 13:48.52 | klys | :) |
| 13:48.54 | OS-58094 | major fail right here |
| 13:48.59 | OS-58094 | big yikes |
| 13:51.02 | ratrace | OS-58094: EVERY TIME |
| 13:51.11 | ratrace | you're just doing it on purpose |
| 13:51.44 | greycat | users with names like OS-digits are all taking "how to be evil" classes and are really not welcome here, or anywhere |
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| 13:52.21 | OS-58094 | I mean my bad just passing through really |
| 13:52.25 | ratrace | offsensive security wannabe haxxor fail |
| 13:52.27 | greycat | so yes, it's quite possible that this "slip" was intentional and is a honeypot, or a joe job |
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| 13:52.36 | ratrace | greycat: it happens once or twice a week |
| 13:53.07 | ratrace | always a OS-\d+ user "accidentally" registering a new account... |
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| 13:55.08 | klys | mariomey, do you have a problem with wpa_supplicant (the command I posted above)? |
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| 13:56.30 | MarioMey | Klys: no, i can run it correctly, but wait... |
| 13:57.30 | klys | mariomey, if that connected, you must also do this: # dhclient -d wlan0; or this: # pump -i wlan0 |
| 13:59.12 | MarioMey | Yes, it's connected |
| 13:59.24 | klys | mariomey, then you have access now? |
| 14:00.28 | MarioMey | I mean, CTRL-EVENT-CONNECTED is the last message |
| 14:00.39 | klys | mariomey, go ahead and press return |
| 14:01.09 | klys | if return doesn't give you a prompt then hit ctrl-Z and then type # bg |
| 14:01.56 | klys | then you can run either of the commands I mentioned |
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| 14:02.16 | klys | and if they don't return your prompt when complete, just press ctrl-c |
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| 14:02.37 | MarioMey1 | klys: I'm here, from the computer now |
| 14:02.39 | MarioMey1 | :) |
| 14:02.42 | klys | cool! |
| 14:02.54 | MarioMey1 | I gotta go now. |
| 14:03.00 | klys | okay, save those commands to a script... |
| 14:03.02 | klys | :) |
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| 14:03.25 | MarioMey1 | But I want to know how to connect using network-manager... or I won't can do it? |
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| 14:04.02 | klys | network-manager may or may not work, I'm not sure. you may need to contact #gnome or #freedesktop or /msg alis keyword |
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| 14:09.50 | wild_buffalo | How do I turn off inactive sleep or sleep when closing the lid *when no one is logged in* in the Debian Gnome DE? |
| 14:11.09 | klys | wild_buffalo, /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gsd-power ? |
| 14:11.26 | klys | oh you have a stipulation |
| 14:11.40 | klys | afraid I am not familiar with your stipulation. |
| 14:11.41 | greycat | .oO( if nobody is logged in, then gnome is not running ) |
| 14:13.02 | wild_buffalo | Well, I'm not super familiar how it works but I'm guessing GDM is running? |
| 14:13.20 | wild_buffalo | There's the blue login screen |
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| 14:13.45 | wild_buffalo | On my user I used dconf to deactivate going to sleep due to idleness or closing the lid |
| 14:13.54 | wild_buffalo | But I need to be logged in for it to work |
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| 14:14.24 | dob1 | hi, can I do something like tcpdump host *.google.com ? (this doesn't work) |
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| 14:14.33 | wild_buffalo | I would like to know how can apply that change to whatever default process or user runs before I'm logged in, if anyone has that info |
| 14:15.23 | greycat | it's definitely a display manager (gdm3 or lightdm or sddm or similar) |
| 14:15.32 | wild_buffalo | I tried `sudo -u Debian-gdm dbus-launch gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power sleep-inactive-ac-type 'nothing'` but I get a "No protocol specified" message |
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| 14:15.42 | wild_buffalo | I got the suggestion from here: |
| 14:15.47 | wild_buffalo | https://askubuntu.com/questions/1101043/prevent-sleep-suspend-when-not-logged-in-to-a-specific-account/1131749 |
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| 14:17.14 | jak2000 | command for find/looking this file: shutdown ? |
| 14:17.32 | greycat | !buster su |
| 14:17.33 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To use the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 14:17.34 | greycat | My guess. |
| 14:18.24 | greycat | if my guess is not correct, please restate your question in the form of an English sentence |
| 14:18.58 | wrksx | is /etc/default specifically for systemd? |
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| 14:19.08 | greycat | No. It comes from the sysv-rc days. |
| 14:19.22 | greycat | Any systemd units that use it are doing so for backward compat. |
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| 14:19.35 | wrksx | oky ty. |
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| 14:20.56 | wild_buffalo | Found the solution, I think |
| 14:21.21 | wild_buffalo | For reference: /etc/gdm3/greeter.dconf-defaults has the setting I was looking for |
| 14:21.43 | tkuester | Can someone help me understand why libc6-armhf-cross doesn't have files for /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*, but libc6:armhf does? |
| 14:22.57 | wrksx | Indeed it looks like my package is not systemd orientied |
| 14:23.03 | wrksx | oriented |
| 14:23.19 | wrksx | it starts from /etc/init.d |
| 14:23.29 | tkuester | I'm cross compiling a program, and if I only have libc6-armhf-cross, I need to run "qemu-arm -L /usr/arm-linux-gnueabihf program" instead of just "qemu-arm program" |
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| 14:27.08 | SerajewelKS | tkuester: if you install qemu-user-binfmt, there is magic installed that allows you to just run "program" |
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| 14:27.45 | tkuester | SerajewelKS: I'll look into that, thanks for the tip. (Though I'm still hoping to understand my question!) |
| 14:28.03 | wwilliam | Can anyone recommend an open source change management tool i can install on a debian server please? |
| 14:28.25 | SerajewelKS | wwilliam: what kind of change management? something like etckeeper? |
| 14:28.31 | ratrace | wwilliam: SaltStack, Ansible |
| 14:28.35 | wwilliam | no no |
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| 14:28.50 | SerajewelKS | oh, more like chef |
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| 14:29.16 | wwilliam | lets say i network card is going to be changed open ticket send the approvals get the approvals send emails etc. |
| 14:29.52 | wwilliam | Not just software changes or upgrades everything |
| 14:29.54 | ratrace | oh you want the whole red tape? |
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| 14:30.07 | wwilliam | needs to have a change ticket with all the approvals. |
| 14:30.31 | ratrace | wwilliam: maybe you can integrate gitlab with saltstack |
| 14:30.34 | centrix | I find WebContent eating 100% cpu. Luckily I have 2 CPUS allocated, but still the load is too high. What may be the cause? Debian Buster/XFCE/firefox 60.9.0esr-1~deb10u1. Thank you for a clue. |
| 14:31.02 | greycat | close your bitcoin mining javascript advertisements |
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| 14:31.15 | ratrace | wwilliam: infact... you can integrate any issue/bug management software with saltstack, you'll have to write some hooks, but it's definitely doable. |
| 14:31.34 | wwilliam | I dont think you get me. |
| 14:31.53 | greycat | I suspect he wants a turnkey system, ready to go, no development required. |
| 14:31.57 | ratrace | wwilliam: well maybe explain one full such process example |
| 14:31.59 | wwilliam | Thank you all. |
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| 14:32.58 | wwilliam | ok lets say ok a change on a file a change ticket needs to be open this change ticket must have many fields change owner approvers change to be made back out plan etc. |
| 14:33.03 | wwilliam | like that. |
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| 14:33.12 | wwilliam | is there something like that in Linux? |
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| 14:34.00 | SerajewelKS | there's OTRS, but it will require some configuration and possibly a small amount of Perl development if you need it to integrate with a system that would actually apply a change |
| 14:34.28 | wwilliam | OK Thank you. |
| 14:34.57 | ratrace | we use gitlab. saltstack configs are in a gitlab repo. an issue is opened, staltstack mods applied, a commit closes the issue |
| 14:35.12 | wwilliam | and the approvals? |
| 14:35.16 | wwilliam | and the emails? |
| 14:35.24 | wwilliam | and the backout plans? |
| 14:35.49 | ratrace | we don't do that much detail but you can look into gitlab permissions and see if it's clicky-clicky configurable |
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| 14:36.29 | ratrace | like, group A can open issues, but only group B (the approvers) can close issues, definitely group C is allowed to submit pull requests and you can define who can accept and merge pull requests |
| 14:37.02 | ratrace | then CI hooks can take that to saltstack event reactors and actually perform the change (which we don't do, we require a hooman, me, do the thing) |
| 14:37.41 | wwilliam | hmm yes something like that could work. Thanks ratrace will check. |
| 14:37.48 | wwilliam | thanks for your time. |
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| 14:41.10 | ratrace | wwilliam: yeah now that I think about it, you can definitely pull it off with permissions in gitlab. change request done via pull request on the code/config, and only folks with permission can merge it. CI hooks can trigger on merge and exec optional tests and actual config change. |
| 14:42.05 | ratrace | the only scripting required is interaction between CI / merge-hook and your actual config management tool (salt, ansible, chef, whatever) |
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| 14:44.30 | wwilliam | Thank you ratrace |
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| 14:48.46 | losgb1 | Hi, I am on Debian 10.1 Buster Xfce with Manjaro's Vertex-Maia theme and icons and I have an issue with the systray icon for the power manager utility. The icon doesn't follow the theme and I'd like to fix that. Anybody got any idea on how to fix this ? |
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| 14:59.50 | SerajewelKS | what's the ip/bridge equivalent of "brctl show" to display bridges and their ports? |
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| 15:00.17 | SerajewelKS | "bridge" doesn't seem to actually show bridges, only ports. "ip link" doesn't tell me which ports are added to which bridges. |
| 15:00.48 | MarioMey | Klys, thaks for your help. |
| 15:00.59 | SerajewelKS | the only equivalent i can find is 'bridge link | grep "master $BRNAME "' which seems like an awful hack |
| 15:01.52 | SerajewelKS | i'm hopeful that there actually is a way to ask which ports are added to a bridge in the non-deprecated tools, surely that feature of brctl wouldn't be left out if it's being kicked to the curb? |
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| 15:04.34 | DonKichot | Is it possible to compile lib Angle on Debian Testing or should I use Sid? |
| 15:05.14 | greycat | !debian-next |
| 15:05.14 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
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| 15:14.32 | netcrash | Hello, I'm trying to compile gearman in debian and it uses a lot of network and such, I believe it can be due to testing, what (where) should I look for what's causing this? |
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| 15:18.03 | wwilliam | Hello how can I fix this please? |
| 15:18.05 | wwilliam | http://paste.debian.net/1109327/ |
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| 15:20.21 | trek00 | wwilliam: you have 2 options: compile yourself a newer version of ruby or upgrade you system to debian buster |
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| 15:21.08 | wwilliam | !upgrade |
| 15:21.08 | dpkg | Upgrades keep your box from getting r00ted and reboots let you run new kernels. Stop obsessing about uptime already. It's not 1996. Refresh the lists of available packages "apt update", and then an "apt upgrade". Ask me about <security>. If you upgrade to a new stable version of Debian, read its release notes first. Ask me about <stretch->buster>. |
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| 15:22.15 | wwilliam | msg dpkg stretch->buster |
| 15:22.40 | ratrace | there's no redmine in buster though |
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| 15:23.32 | greycat | https://tracker.debian.org/news/1027921/redmine-removed-from-testing/ |
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| 15:23.37 | wwilliam | im getting it from source |
| 15:24.14 | wwilliam | hmm i will do vm and try buster and redmine and see. |
| 15:24.25 | wwilliam | Thank you. |
| 15:24.29 | ratrace | wwilliam: there's no redmine in buster |
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| 15:24.43 | ratrace | you could try running a sid chroot with redmine |
| 15:24.43 | wwilliam | what about from source? |
| 15:24.51 | wwilliam | I can not install from source? |
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| 15:25.10 | trek00 | wwilliam: yes, it's ok |
| 15:25.28 | ratrace | wwilliam: I think the issue is dependency compatibility |
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| 15:25.33 | wwilliam | Will check will download the buster Iso now |
| 15:26.01 | ratrace | which might mean you'll run into same problems that got redmine removed from buster. TIAS, but again, you can always run a sid chroot for it. |
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| 15:29.02 | jhutchins_wk | redmine isn't really an end-user software product. It's more of a programming framework. |
| 15:29.16 | wwilliam | ah ok ratrace. |
| 15:30.15 | wwilliam | Its for me. |
| 15:30.22 | wwilliam | my personal use. |
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| 15:34.53 | jhutchins_wk | ,checkbackport redmine |
| 15:34.55 | judd | Backporting package redmine in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12). |
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| 15:37.42 | wwilliam | jhutchins_wk: what is that for? |
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| 15:38.25 | gvth | Hi. Short question: Can it intentionally happen that stable contains a newer version of a given package than testing? |
| 15:38.31 | greycat | Checking whether it's possible to build a backport of redmine from sid's source onto a buster target. |
| 15:38.53 | greycat | The result is misleading because apparently Debian decided to change how they package shit. Again. |
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| 15:39.24 | trek00 | gvth: usually not |
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| 15:39.29 | greycat | !debian epoch |
| 15:39.29 | dpkg | The version number of a package has a prepended number called the "epoch". It is only added when the system for upstream version numbers changes. Example: in sarge, X was version 6.8 but in etch it was 1.1 (xfree86->xorg). But 1 < 6, so we add an epoch "2:" to signify that everything with 2: is newer (if there is no : the epoch is assumed to be "0"). See section 5.6.12 of <policy> or ask me about <compare versions> <debian revision>. |
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| 15:40.55 | gvth | greycat: no, there is no number with colon pretended |
| 15:41.07 | gvth | the package I am referring to is firefox-esr |
| 15:41.24 | gvth | greycat: *prepended |
| 15:41.28 | greycat | In that case, the version in testins is probably just stupidly old. |
| 15:41.34 | greycat | ,v firefox-esr |
| 15:41.35 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch: 60.7.1esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 60.8.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 60.8.0esr-1; jessie-security: 60.9.0esr-1~deb8u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 60.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 60.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster-proposed-updates: 60.9.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 60.9.0esr-1~deb10u1; |
| 15:41.36 | judd | sid: 68.2.0esr-1 |
| 15:42.05 | trek00 | gvth: this is because security updates are done for stable before any other release |
| 15:42.12 | greycat | Looks basically the same to me. buster: 60.8.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 60.8.0esr-1; |
| 15:42.33 | trek00 | greycat: buster has 60.9.0esr-1~deb10u1 |
| 15:42.54 | greycat | then the bot's out of date. |
| 15:43.02 | wwilliam | installing buster now. |
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| 15:43.08 | greycat | oh, buster-security. duh. my fault. |
| 15:43.16 | gvth | when I loaded packages.debian.org/firefox-esr about 10 minutes ago, the version for buster is shown as 60.9.0esr-1~deb10u1 |
| 15:43.18 | greycat | yes, buster-security is ahead of bullseye. |
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| 15:47.07 | jak2000 | hi friend. i shared a folder with samba here more details: https://paste.debian.net/1109335/ the user from windows, can access the server, can access the folder, can copy the files that contain the folder /backups but cant cut the files, why? how to fix? |
| 15:47.11 | wwilliam | what is the stable version of Debian? |
| 15:47.38 | jhutchins_wk | wwilliam: 10.1 buster |
| 15:47.40 | greycat | buster, debian 10 |
| 15:47.48 | wwilliam | Thank you. |
| 15:48.08 | jhutchins_wk | wwilliam: See also channel topic /topic |
| 15:48.41 | wwilliam | ok Thank you. |
| 15:48.48 | wwilliam | sorry. |
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| 15:54.38 | trek00 | jak2000: what do you mean with cut the files? delete or truncate? |
| 15:55.46 | jak2000 | delete |
| 15:56.36 | trek00 | jak2000: i guess he can't create files too |
| 15:57.11 | jak2000 | read only = yes |
| 15:57.12 | jak2000 | removed |
| 15:57.44 | trek00 | jak2000: it's ok now? |
| 15:57.52 | jak2000 | but now ask me a suer and password... how to remove this |
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| 15:58.30 | humpled | put read only = no and restart the service? |
| 15:58.40 | jak2000 | ask me a suer and pass |
| 15:59.08 | whislock | Should it not ask for authentication? |
| 15:59.49 | jak2000 | not auth |
| 15:59.56 | humpled | have a look in man smb.conf |
| 16:00.05 | jak2000 | and contiunue say permission denied, creating new paste |
| 16:01.02 | jak2000 | https://paste.debian.net/1109340/ |
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| 16:01.25 | trek00 | jak2000: be careful that with no authentication, even viruses can write on that share, but you can add "security = share" to remove auth |
| 16:02.15 | jak2000 | changed to share and then service samba reload |
| 16:02.25 | jak2000 | continue ask user pasword |
| 16:02.28 | jak2000 | and cant remove files |
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| 16:03.30 | jak2000 | note: i only want cut files, not write.... |
| 16:03.33 | jak2000 | is possible? |
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| 16:03.56 | whislock | Deleting is writing. And it's 'delete,' not 'cut.' |
| 16:04.21 | SerajewelKS | to my knowledge, neither linux nor samba have a mechanism to permit deleting files but forbid creating them |
| 16:04.35 | greycat | it's kind of the *opposite* of what most people would want |
| 16:04.50 | trek00 | jak2000: you could setup some mandatory access control on the linux server, but it's not that simple |
| 16:04.53 | jak2000 | i want share a folder (here created backups of mysqldb) |
| 16:05.11 | jak2000 | ok then delete and write how to? any advice? |
| 16:05.11 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i don't even think extended ACLs can do this |
| 16:05.18 | whislock | Sharing backups without authentication. Love it. |
| 16:05.45 | greycat | jak2000: what are you actually trying to do? |
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| 16:06.24 | jak2000 | actually i shared a folder.. can access (with user/password) and can copy files, but cant delete... |
| 16:06.34 | jak2000 | here my config https://paste.debian.net/1109340/ |
| 16:06.51 | SerajewelKS | jak2000: greycat is asking what the _purpose_ of sharing the folder is |
| 16:07.17 | SerajewelKS | because there is a good chance that what you're trying to accomplish can be done in a better way |
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| 16:10.40 | jak2000 | cant delete, need do a chmod 777 to folder? |
| 16:10.49 | whislock | This gets better and better. |
| 16:11.30 | trek00 | jak2000: you need to set force user to the owner of the files |
| 16:12.22 | SerajewelKS | what the heck... is there a way i can ask open-iscsi what portal it is using for a volume? |
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| 16:12.50 | SerajewelKS | because somehow i got a lun automatically connected and available even though the interface to the storage network is not configured with an IP |
| 16:12.58 | SerajewelKS | so somehow by magic it connected to the volume without a local IP |
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| 16:15.04 | SerajewelKS | hmm nevermind, i see what happened |
| 16:15.52 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: in reply about acl, you can do this with selinux |
| 16:16.15 | SerajewelKS | ah right, i like to pretend that selinux doesn't exist |
| 16:16.32 | trek00 | :) |
| 16:17.06 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: instead, the apparmour feature to do this is in development |
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| 16:17.24 | _Fremen_ | hello everyone |
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| 16:19.34 | _Fremen_ | I just installed a debian machine with printer server configuration to share it over network with other computers. Linux and Mac devices are working fine with it without further configuration. However windows devices does not work correctly. I read online that I need to configure samba and etc. to make it visible to Windows computer. Is it possible for me to configure windows machines to enable them to see this printer, rather than configuring the Debian |
| 16:19.34 | _Fremen_ | machine? |
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| 16:20.40 | trek00 | _Fremen_: probably windows needs some drivers to work with a printer server |
| 16:22.21 | trek00 | _Fremen_: this is a bit outdated but may be it can help you http://books.gigatux.nl/mirror/linuxcookbook/0596006403/linuxckbk-CHP-14-SECT-5.html |
| 16:22.51 | jhutchins_wk | Has anyone gotten cups printing to connect over ipv6? |
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| 16:24.28 | _Fremen_ | trek00: that seems very good :) I will try it. Thank you very much :) |
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| 16:25.05 | trek00 | _Fremen_: :) |
| 16:28.53 | trek00 | jhutchins_wk: may be this can help you? https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/235483/printing-to-linux-cups-printer-from-mac-el-capitan-fills-error-log-and-doesnt/250250#250250 |
| 16:31.24 | mzs114 | Hi, on debian 10(running on a VPS) is there a way to change the bright colors on terminal? |
| 16:31.56 | trek00 | mzs114: yes, but the configuration depend by the terminal program you are using |
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| 16:32.15 | jhutchins_wk | Not exactly the problem. Our mac prints to it just fine, but my wife's desktop has not been able to connect in quite a while. It detects and adds the printer using the ipv6 address, but then says it can't connect when I try to send a job. There's no restriction on the network sharing on the server, but I'll check for ipv6 settings and try an "Allow" statement. |
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| 16:32.38 | mzs114 | I use xfce4-terminal on my PC, on a freebsd server(VPS) it shows sober colors |
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| 16:33.12 | SerajewelKS | why would mdadm --re-add be "not possible?" |
| 16:33.27 | mzs114 | this is on fbsd => https://i.paste.pics/09510ae07540937409fdacbf2d688d3d.png |
| 16:33.27 | mzs114 | this is on debian => https://i.paste.pics/182b2688e4c94f971e65a1a1c7c2f1db.png |
| 16:33.28 | jhutchins_wk | trek00: It does, however, imply that at least some versions/configurations of cups can talk over ipv6. |
| 16:33.33 | SerajewelKS | the events only differ by 30 |
| 16:33.33 | trek00 | mzs114: check this https://askubuntu.com/questions/676428/change-color-scheme-for-xfce4-terminal-manually |
| 16:33.40 | SerajewelKS | surely that's within the threshold for re-adding? |
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| 16:34.31 | jhutchins_wk | mzs114: Most terminal emulators have color settings, and you can adjust bash colors as well. |
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| 16:35.06 | SerajewelKS | are there some other constraints for --re-add? |
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| 16:36.03 | mzs114 | thanks trek00 and jhutchins_wk, but I don't understand same client different servers, why is the color rendered differently, like I did spend sometime and setting everything to xterm-256, but this did not solve it. |
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| 16:43.48 | trek00 | mzs114: may be the servers have different termcap installed? |
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| 16:44.26 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: may be they failed to resync and then it needs manual confirmation with --force |
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| 16:44.46 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i think i figured it out... debian-installer created the mirror with no bitmap |
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| 16:45.58 | SerajewelKS | trek00: yep that was it. "mdadm --grow /dev/md0 --bitmap=internal" and i can now re-add |
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| 16:46.35 | SerajewelKS | this all seems very fragile. using raid1 on iscsi devices that hold / has lots of weird problems. |
| 16:46.44 | SerajewelKS | for example, when the system reboots, only one side of the mirror is active |
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| 16:47.37 | SerajewelKS | "mdadm /dev/md0 --re-add missing" fixes it |
| 16:47.42 | mzs114 | trek00: idk, on debian vps ncurses is installed, on freebsd there is none, or perhaps something different, |
| 16:47.47 | SerajewelKS | but it seems odd that md-raid doesn't see the iscsi device and put it in the array itself |
| 16:48.04 | SerajewelKS | oh, hmm... looks like a shutdown problem |
| 16:48.29 | SerajewelKS | during shutdown iscsi is stopped and so the mirror device fails the remote disk. which is why it's not re-added on boot. |
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| 16:48.46 | Gigglebyte | how do I add a network mirror to my recent Debian Buster Installation? I can't do updates and upgrades. |
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| 16:49.02 | SerajewelKS | i wonder if there's a way to get that not to happen on shutdown |
| 16:49.05 | mzs114 | I am using tmux on both |
| 16:49.11 | greycat | !buster sources.list |
| 16:49.11 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 16:49.23 | SerajewelKS | i bet it's when the network is deconfigured actually |
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| 16:49.40 | SerajewelKS | i wonder how people usually set this kind of thing up |
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| 16:50.05 | trek00 | mzs114: the termcap definitions are installed on each server and can differ sometimes, try setting TERM=xterm |
| 16:50.42 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: i think iscsi should be stopped after mdadm |
| 16:51.09 | SerajewelKS | i don't think iscsi is actually being stopped. i think the network is being deconfigured and so iscsi loses connection to the volume. |
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| 16:51.29 | mzs114 | I have set this as xterm-256, after reading the stackoverflow answers.. will it help if I try setting it back to xterm? |
| 16:51.31 | jhutchins_wk | I think the color settings for the shells are different as well. |
| 16:51.35 | SerajewelKS | is there an ifupdown stanza that will ask the shutdown scripts to leave an interface up? |
| 16:52.03 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: a workaround is to have a script that stop mdadm arrays on iscsi before the network is deconfigured |
| 16:52.10 | Gigglebyte | My mistake. It looks like the upgrade feature is working afterall. |
| 16:52.13 | SerajewelKS | trek00: but the array contains / |
| 16:52.20 | jhutchins_wk | mzs114: It depends on the termcap file on the server. This is not something that's constant across different OSs. |
| 16:52.32 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: root on iscsi? |
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| 16:52.49 | mzs114 | yeah, so how do I determine termcap? I am new to this, never heard about this .. |
| 16:52.53 | SerajewelKS | trek00: yes. this has been a supported config for awhile, but i'm guessing there's some changes you have to make to the network config to make everything clean. |
| 16:53.06 | SerajewelKS | trek00: hell the debian-installer even sets up iscsi in the initramfs for you |
| 16:53.13 | greycat | termcap is no longer used in any modern version of Linux. everything moved to terminfo a long time ago. |
| 16:53.33 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i have an idea... |
| 16:53.59 | trek00 | mzs114: xterm-256 it's not always defined/installed |
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| 16:54.36 | SerajewelKS | trek00: it may not be shutdown that's the problem after all. it could be during boot, ifupdown re-takes control of the interface after the kernel did DHCP during boot. drops the interface and runs DHCP on it again. |
| 16:54.45 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: All I have is a vague notion that it's a file somewhere that defines what features are available for what terminal id, and that bash may have it's own set of color definitions. |
| 16:55.02 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i think removing the interface from /etc/network/interfaces completely will do the trick |
| 16:55.14 | greycat | /etc/termcap was a single monolithic file. That is no longer used. Terminfo is a database, one file per terminal type, compiled into a bytecode form. |
| 16:55.20 | SerajewelKS | trek00: then ifupdown will leave it configured at boot, and not deconfigure it during shutdown |
| 16:55.24 | jhutchins_wk | That's the kind of thing that wants a lot of digging to figure out for a very small return, and then has to be done all over if you change systems. |
| 16:55.46 | greycat | You can see your current terminal's terminfo entry (in non-compiled form) with "infocmp". Or a given terminal with "infocmp termtype". |
| 16:55.48 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: Makes sens. |
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| 16:56.24 | SerajewelKS | trek00: well i'll be fucked, debian-installer was one step ahead there too |
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| 16:56.33 | SerajewelKS | trek00: it's set to "inet manual" |
| 16:56.35 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: yes this can be an useful workaround, or tweak the initialization system to not have to stop networking |
| 16:57.10 | mzs114 | greycat: on debian => infocmp: couldn't open terminfo file /usr/share/terminfo/t/termtype. |
| 16:57.33 | greycat | *sigh* |
| 16:57.38 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i removed the interface from the file completely, let's see what that does |
| 16:57.52 | greycat | mzs114: do you know what the English word "placeholder" means? |
| 16:58.23 | mzs114 | nope |
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| 16:58.34 | trek00 | mzs114: try infocmp without arguments and infocmp xterm or infocmp xterm-256 on both servers |
| 16:58.44 | SerajewelKS | trek00: hmm that didn't help at all |
| 16:58.54 | jhutchins_wk | On mine its xterm-256color |
| 16:59.11 | mzs114 | ah |
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| 17:01.00 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: I had the same problem in the past (not with root fs, but others mount point) and it was resolved with workarounds, as iscsi + mdadm was uncommon configuration |
| 17:01.26 | SerajewelKS | trek00: what did you wind up doing? what was the issue for you? |
| 17:02.19 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: sadly i don't remember exactly, but it was something about the shutdown order (may be iscsi was stopped before mdadm) |
| 17:02.31 | mzs114 | ok, on freebsd the command is not available, searching around, 'termname' outputs => xterm-256color |
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| 17:02.38 | mzs114 | on debian I see a page size output |
| 17:03.06 | mzs114 | xterm|xterm-debian|X11 terminal emulator, the second line |
| 17:03.20 | mzs114 | so can I deduce that xterm-256 is not available on debian? |
| 17:03.45 | trek00 | mzs114: well try setting your TERM to xterm and then connect to the server, something like: TERM=xterm ssh yourusername@yourserver |
| 17:04.03 | trek00 | mzs114: what version of debian do you have? cat /etc/debian_version |
| 17:04.11 | greycat | https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?terminfo |
| 17:04.19 | greycat | https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?infocmp |
| 17:04.25 | mzs114 | amd64 10, wait, I ran one more command and it listed this => xterm-256color|xterm with 256 colors, |
| 17:04.46 | mzs114 | Debian GNU/Linux 10 \n \l |
| 17:06.05 | trek00 | mzs114: it's important that the TERM environment variable is set to a valid termcap (xterm should be safe) and be the same on the client and on the server you are connecting to |
| 17:07.36 | mzs114 | ok, I connected by setting the TERM variable, once with xterm and once with xterm-256color, both produce the same result. |
| 17:07.49 | mzs114 | produce same colors. |
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| 17:08.18 | SerajewelKS | trek00: aha here we go |
| 17:08.37 | SerajewelKS | trek00: in /etc/default/open-iscsi: ISCSI_ROOT_KEEP_ALL_SESSIONS_AT_SHUTDOWN=0 |
| 17:08.41 | SerajewelKS | trek00: let's change that to 1 and see what happens |
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| 17:10.43 | SerajewelKS | trek00: bingo, that was it |
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| 17:11.18 | SerajewelKS | trek00: there's scripts that run to determine what sessions are safe to stop. it tries to avoid stopping / by looking through multiple layers, including LVM and crypto. but md-raid is not something it considers. |
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| 17:12.54 | trek00 | mzs114: just to be sure: are you using the same instance of xfce-terminal (same window) to connect both servers via ssh and the colors are different? or are you connecting to a graphical session and then starting xfce-terminal on each server? |
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| 17:13.17 | wwilliam | Hello i install buster with both kde and gnome is booting straight to gnome how do i switch please? |
| 17:13.24 | mzs114 | yes trek00 |
| 17:13.41 | mzs114 | wwilliam: from the login screen, there will be an option to change the DE |
| 17:13.42 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: you are the lucky winner of a new bug! :) |
| 17:13.52 | wwilliam | There is not |
| 17:14.08 | SerajewelKS | trek00: maybe, i'd call it a feature request |
| 17:14.17 | mzs114 | what is the login manager wwilliam? |
| 17:14.21 | SerajewelKS | trek00: at any rate i have a workaround and it's simple. *takes notes for blog post* |
| 17:15.00 | oerheks | wwilliam, logout, click username, then the option to change DE |
| 17:15.36 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: if they manage lvm and crypto but not mdraid it should be simple to add another check, so please to fill a bug report (with your workaround) |
| 17:15.53 | wwilliam | Thank you I see the little sucker now. |
| 17:16.52 | trek00 | mzs114: sorry i don't know how to help you with this issue, the same xfce-terminal with same termcap definitions on both servers should results in same colors |
| 17:18.21 | mzs114 | trek00, I usually solve my problems by searching around, but sometimes like this, it confused me too, :) |
| 17:19.08 | greycat | mzs114: the other piece of the puzzle is; what are you actually doing on the server side to produce the "colors"? |
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| 17:19.21 | greycat | mzs114: some application, or some shell script with tput commands, or ...? |
| 17:21.47 | mzs114 | I am using Salt to run commands on agents/targets, this produces colors, that differentiates the pass/fail/nochange. |
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| 17:22.03 | mzs114 | Ansible, terraform too produce this.. |
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| 17:22.48 | greycat | Well, ultimately, the question is what this application is *doing* to produce the colors. It must be sending some sort of escape sequence, which the terminal interprets. In a *sensible* universe, each application would consult the terminfo database to see "what sequence do I send for color 1 (red)" and send that. |
| 17:23.14 | greycat | But in reality, people take shortcuts, and they hardwire escape sequences into their applications, so they can get "pumpkin spice latte orange" or some other crazy bullshit. |
| 17:23.24 | SerajewelKS | trek00: yeah i could make a report |
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| 17:23.45 | greycat | So, one or more of your applications are probably sending different escape sequences for their own special-snowflake colors. |
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| 17:24.56 | mzs114 | hmm, makes sense.. cuz I did not make any changes on client side(xfce4-term), but whereas on the server side, debian is a running a older release of salt, fbsd is on a newer version |
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| 17:25.56 | mzs114 | maybe that could be the reason. |
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| 17:27.08 | greycat | Terminfo isn't even *designed* with the concept of supporting more than the regular 8 colors that *most* terminals offer. |
| 17:27.27 | greycat | all this "256 color" stuff is just kiddie crap |
| 17:27.49 | greycat | (16 colors if you include "bright" variants of the basic 8) |
| 17:28.20 | trek00 | mzs114: to help diagnose further, you can try running top on both servers and the press 'z' key to enable colors and see if they are different |
| 17:28.46 | greycat | or capture the actual data sent by app1 and app2 and compare the escape sequences |
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| 17:28.51 | mzs114 | https://imgur.com/a/SYA9mls https://imgur.com/a/4707iLp |
| 17:29.08 | mzs114 | the unreadble one is debian, just sharing to illustrate the pain |
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| 17:30.49 | mzs114 | the 'z' key does not work on bsd top |
| 17:31.01 | mzs114 | on debian it shows shades of red/orange. |
| 17:31.34 | SerajewelKS | trek00: hmm, i don't think this is a problem specific to / |
| 17:31.51 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i think if an iscsi device is added to _any_ md-raid device, you'd have this issue with that raid device |
| 17:31.56 | trek00 | mzs114: may be setting a black background could help readability (may be there is a check "inverted colors" in xfce-terminal preferences) |
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| 17:32.59 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: yes, it seems not yet supported https://salsa.debian.org/linux-blocks-team/open-iscsi/raw/master/debian/extra/umountiscsi.sh |
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| 17:33.39 | mzs114 | yeah there is, it comes black by default trek00, but I my eyes start to see lines once I move away from the screen. :) |
| 17:33.54 | mzs114 | eyeburn? |
| 17:34.01 | mzs114 | like screen burn. |
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| 17:38.02 | SerajewelKS | trek00: another thing i found is that iscsi support in the debian installer doesn't let you specify an initiator name, which can be required in certain configurations |
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| 17:38.56 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i bet you can switch to VT2 and edit /etc/iscsi/initiatorname.iscsi by hand, but it would make sense to me for the installer to ask for it |
| 17:39.29 | mzs114 | thanks trek00 and greycat, I will have to manage with --no-color for sometime before I find out why this happens and fix it. |
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| 17:40.58 | trek00 | mzs114: you could change the termcap definition for debian, but i still searching for a simple method to do it |
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| 17:41.09 | SerajewelKS | trek00: filed this: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=943347 |
| 17:41.30 | greycat | I really doubt it's using terminfo (or termcap) to issue the color sequences. |
| 17:41.34 | trek00 | mzs114: the issue of bright yellow was already sent to debian, but i can't find by now |
| 17:41.38 | greycat | It's probably hard-coding its own special color handling. |
| 17:42.18 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: good job :) |
| 17:42.45 | greycat | As an example, although it's not directly relevant here, terminfo does not encode a sequence for "red". Or even "color 1". It only has a sequence for "set foreground color" (setaf), and this sequence takes an argument. So, "tput setaf 1" sets the foreground color to 1 (red). |
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| 17:42.54 | greycat | But this API only works for the traditional 8 colors. |
| 17:43.35 | greycat | 256-color crap is kiddie bullshit, and applications that do it tend to roll their own escape sequence generators. |
| 17:43.45 | mzs114 | sent to debian? trek00 |
| 17:43.56 | trek00 | greycat: it seems to me yellow (color 3) is too bright (255,255,0) it could be (255,127,0) |
| 17:43.57 | greycat | I hope he's talking about "apt upgrade". |
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| 17:44.22 | greycat | trek00: you can control that at the terminal level, FYI. "rxvt -color3 brown" or something. |
| 17:44.28 | trek00 | mzs114: i don't remember if it was a bug report/forum/chat |
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| 17:45.18 | greycat | But seriously, "apt upgrade" using yellow as a foreground color with no configuration knobs can go die in a fire. |
| 17:47.24 | mzs114 | greycat it is not from apt upgrade, it renders in nice shade of green, this is from salt stack. |
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| 17:47.41 | greycat | different question, same conceptual issue, I think |
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| 17:49.23 | mzs114 | https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/chx2fVXXVj/ |
| 17:49.31 | mzs114 | this is the debian script capture. |
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| 17:50.00 | SerajewelKS | trek00: in all of this experience, i don't suppose you've figured out how to configure two interfaces during early boot? |
| 17:50.02 | mzs114 | I mean capture while I connected and ran the command to produce the ugly fruits colors |
| 17:50.17 | SerajewelKS | trek00: in my case, i run dropbear-initramfs on the public interface to unlock luks volumes remotely |
| 17:50.33 | SerajewelKS | trek00: however, adding iscsi devices on the second NIC presents a new issue |
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| 17:50.52 | SerajewelKS | trek00: both interfaces must be up before the root pivots.... i'm not sure how to accomplish that in the initrd |
| 17:51.13 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: iscsi could manage interfaces if i remember right? |
| 17:51.14 | Ede|Popede | yellow on white is as bad as blue on black. the problem with 8 colors only is you're stuck to 3 primary, 3 secondary, black, white. done. and you don't want to use primary colors as background. |
| 17:51.28 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i'm not sure what that means |
| 17:52.00 | SerajewelKS | IMO yellow on white is worse than blue on black |
| 17:52.09 | SerajewelKS | the latter is at least somewhat readable without squinting |
| 17:52.11 | trek00 | mzs114: as greycat said, you could force some colors (like yellow) to another palette (brown) |
| 17:52.28 | greycat | that won't work if it's not using the standard color set, though |
| 17:52.55 | greycat | or at least, I'm not aware of any way to tell rxvt "whenever they ask for color number 176, use #aabbcc". only colors 1 through 7. |
| 17:52.59 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: check this file https://salsa.debian.org/linux-blocks-team/open-iscsi/raw/master/etc/iface.example |
| 17:53.36 | greycat | maybe you could work around your problem by only using terminals with 8 colors :) |
| 17:53.48 | SerajewelKS | trek00: hmm interesting |
| 17:54.03 | mzs114 | greycat: how? using just xterm ? |
| 17:54.55 | greycat | you can try it. can't hurt. |
| 17:56.07 | trek00 | mzs114: try with rxvt |
| 17:56.57 | mzs114 | installed on the remote node? |
| 17:57.30 | trek00 | mzs114: installed where you launch xfceterminal |
| 17:57.51 | greycat | *sigh* |
| 17:58.04 | SerajewelKS | trek00: it just seems odd to me that there's very little documentation on configuring multiple network interfaces in the initrd environment |
| 17:58.10 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i wouldn't think this would be a very unique setup |
| 17:58.10 | mzs114 | ok |
| 17:58.32 | greycat | When you said "using just xterm", I thought you meant "launching an XTerm window on my PC". But now I think *you* might have meant "something something TERM=xterm". |
| 17:58.59 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: i don't know, but i always install the root partition on local disks |
| 17:59.03 | Ede|Popede | SerajewelKS: i'm on xfce with adwaita dark. also some dark theme for hexchat. had to brighten up half of the dark colors, and then also the bright ones a bit to keep them brighter than the dark ones. some are still rather unreadable, like darkmagenta on black. and i also have problems reading the normal blue on a black terminal. given, i use a smaller font than i maybe should (59 lines on a 22" monitor), but if white is readable, the other fg |
| 17:59.03 | Ede|Popede | colors should also. i'm simply not an artist ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 17:59.34 | greycat | blue on black is *terrible*. leads to many deaths in nethack. |
| 18:00.00 | greycat | I haven't played nethack in a long time, but when I do, I override the blue color to make it actually visible on the -rv (black background) terminal. |
| 18:00.49 | SerajewelKS | why that's as bad as wall-hacking! |
| 18:00.50 | Ede|Popede | blue is good for a night light (think of the panel in a car) to not be too disturbing. but the difference to black is simply too small |
| 18:01.19 | mzs114 | greycat: :) |
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| 18:01.53 | berndj | is *anyone* able to run gchem3d and do File > Save As Image and then make, say, ammonia.png without the program crashing? go to Tools > Import molecule and enter "InChI=1S/H3N/h1H3" (without quotes) to make something show up |
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| 18:02.08 | thePiGrepper | hi, quick question. I tried installing eclipse-cdt in buster, however there isnt a package for it. there is one for previous releases, and for sid though |
| 18:02.13 | thePiGrepper | why is that? |
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| 18:03.55 | greycat | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/eclipse-cdt |
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| 18:04.10 | greycat | it says "removed from unstable" too |
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| 18:05.38 | jhutchins_wk | Does wayland accept X forwarding? |
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| 18:06.36 | greycat | Oh hey, let's see if anyone answered my basic questions at https://wiki.debian.org/Wayland#FAQ |
| 18:07.11 | trek00 | Ede|Popede: it seems some colors are not configured fine with white or black backgrounds |
| 18:07.54 | greycat | *crickets* |
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| 18:11.08 | Ede|Popede | trek00: to be fair, there's a GPU and then a monitor between the terminfo and the eyes. still have this old Eizo here, my old LCD is pretty dead unluckily, the LED is what i'm using, and then there's a TV which should target other scenarios than text on a static background. |
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| 18:11.44 | humpled | hmm |
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| 18:12.37 | Ede|Popede | i think they tried to make black being as black as possible on the LED, was a revelation compared to the LCD. but that maybe also means that the colors may be darker than they maybe should. |
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| 18:25.49 | wwilliam | that redmine never installed :( |
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| 18:27.47 | tangarora | so idiot here deleted a 4 TB file by mistake on a WD EX4100 ... it uses a busybox env, and ext2. How can I undelete the file? Recover it somehow... |
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| 18:28.25 | greycat | !undelete |
| 18:28.25 | dpkg | Linux doesn't generally support 'undeleting' files. For ext3/ext4, ask me about <ext4magic>, <ext3grep>. For ext2 *only*, use mc (Midnight Commander), umount the filesystem, and select "Undelete files" from menu. With reiserfs, jfs, xfs, you're SooL. Some desktops (GNOME/KDE) offer a trash bin. See also <photorec>, <fatback>. |
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| 18:46.15 | SerajewelKS | trek00: it looks like that iface iscsi config is only read from firmware, not any config files |
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| 19:03.37 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i think i figured it out |
| 19:04.12 | tangarora | greycat, thank you. The WD NAS only runs debian+busy box though. no mc. |
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| 19:06.36 | SerajewelKS | trek00: an initramfs premount script that just directly invokes ipconfig does the trick |
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| 19:07.07 | SerajewelKS | trek00: http://paste.debian.net/1109396/ |
| 19:07.09 | greycat | If it "runs debian", just install mc on it. |
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| 19:12.59 | no_gravity | Funky: When you "apt install npm" on Debian 10 and then run npm it complains that the javascript version is too old. Really? The JS version shipped with the latest Debian release? |
| 19:13.00 | ctrlrisc | apt install mc |
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| 19:19.54 | somiaj | node.js stuff still is evolving too quickly to be fully supplied in a frozen release. |
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| 19:20.44 | no_gravity | somiaj: Is Selenium in a better state? |
| 19:21.46 | ctrlrisc | so, I can't install both 64-bit and 32-bit versions of libllvm9 on sid? |
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| 19:22.03 | somiaj | no_gravity: I don't use node.js, but I think it is probably best to install it third-party |
| 19:22.25 | greycat | for any rapidly evolving tool, I think that's wise |
| 19:23.33 | no_gravity | *shudders* |
| 19:23.37 | somiaj | ,v npm |
| 19:23.38 | judd | Package: npm on amd64 -- jessie: 1.4.21+ds-2; stretch-backports: 5.8.0+ds6-2~bpo9+1; bullseye: 5.8.0+ds6-4; buster: 5.8.0+ds6-4; sid: 5.8.0+ds6-4 |
| 19:23.53 | somiaj | hmm, nope isn't being provided via backports yet either. |
| 19:24.21 | greycat | stretch-backports through sid are all basically the same version |
| 19:25.12 | somiaj | Yea, and the first link I found suggests using an ppa....don't do that, but it also suggests using nvm (this is node.js version of virtual enviroment), so probably setup nvm, which as a newer node.js install locally in $HOME or something like that |
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| 19:25.45 | sklv1 | does debian automatically print dmesg to the serial port? |
| 19:26.36 | somiaj | no_gravity: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-node-js-on-debian-10#installing-using-nvm -- I would suggest using nvm and install it locally in $HOME or /opt |
| 19:26.56 | no_gravity | somiaj: I just did "apt install npm" and so far it works. |
| 19:27.02 | greycat | I'm kinda unimpressed by programming environments that realize they are so flaky and dangerous that they recommend using themselves in an isolated sandbox. |
| 19:27.24 | somiaj | yea, it will mostly warn you that your version is outdated, but if you start tying to install packages with npm, you could run into issues, so I would just use upstream for node.js |
| 19:27.27 | sklv1 | and ones that reimplement the package manager on a whim because windows doesn't |
| 19:27.43 | tds | sklv1: no, you'll want to put something like console=ttyS0,115200 on your kernel cmdline |
| 19:27.45 | somiaj | what I would worry about by using npm on the machine. |
| 19:27.47 | no_gravity | greycat: That is the new way. Every piece of software is a steaming piece of junk that has to be kept in a container. |
| 19:28.07 | no_gravity | greycat: I don't think there is a way back to green fields and blue skyes. |
| 19:28.12 | sklv1 | tds: thanks |
| 19:28.19 | tds | on modern debian systems, that will also cause systemd to start a getty on that port, fyi |
| 19:28.43 | SerajewelKS | no_gravity: there is a debian repository provided by node.js. you could also use a container. |
| 19:29.17 | no_gravity | SerajewelKS: I *do* use a container. In the container, there runs Debian 10. And in that Debian 10 I installed npm via "apt install npm". It works. |
| 19:30.19 | SerajewelKS | no_gravity: if you use docker or something that uses compatible images, consider using the node:12-buster image |
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| 19:31.55 | SerajewelKS | the version in stretch is 10 which is out of LTS one year sooner than 12 (the current LTS, which was released monday) |
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| 19:34.06 | no_gravity | SerajewelKS: I only use official Debian images. |
| 19:34.29 | SerajewelKS | then it would be advisable to use the nodesource repository for packages, or avoid node altogether |
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| 19:35.07 | somiaj | hmm so the nodesorce packages are designed for debian 10 (I was just a bit worried when the page I found called them a PPA) |
| 19:36.29 | SerajewelKS | i believe so. or the packages are at least compatible between debian and other debian-based distros. |
| 19:37.14 | SerajewelKS | yeah there is a separate repo for debian vs ubuntu |
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| 19:40.18 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: is that premount script based on ifaces config of iscsi? |
| 19:40.27 | SerajewelKS | trek00: no |
| 19:40.38 | SerajewelKS | trek00: it's based on me reading the ipconfig documentation :) |
| 19:41.12 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: ok, this is a workaround you made yourself, not included in iscsi package |
| 19:41.26 | SerajewelKS | trek00: right. there doesn't seem to be a universal way to configure multiple interfaces. |
| 19:41.40 | SerajewelKS | trek00: this seems to work well, and ipconfig keeps state on what is configured in /run in the initrd environment |
| 19:41.45 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: good to know |
| 19:42.02 | SerajewelKS | trek00: and the other scripts seem to also use ipconfig, so they won't stomp on each other. the first script to run ipconfig for an interface "wins" for its config. |
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| 19:50.12 | jhutchins_wk | SerajewelKS: ipconfig's windows, linux has ifconfig. |
| 19:50.24 | greycat | (had) |
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| 19:51.08 | todi | A wonderful good evening |
| 19:53.07 | todi | No one is awake anymore |
| 19:54.18 | jhutchins_wk | todi: We don't tend to respond to casual chat but wait until there's a question we can answer. |
| 19:54.49 | jhutchins_wk | Most of the U.S. is awake and still working, so they may only drop in once in a while. |
| 19:55.25 | jhutchins_wk | Getting late in the evening in Europe, those folks are starting to drop off. |
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| 19:55.39 | Habbie | judging from the host, todi is in my timezone, where it's 21:55 |
| 19:55.51 | greycat | they also said "evening" |
| 19:55.58 | Habbie | yes :) |
| 19:56.59 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: buster still has ifconfig (has to be manually installed); did they pull it from bullseye/ |
| 19:57.02 | jhutchins_wk | ? |
| 19:57.05 | trek00 | jhutchins_wk: ipconfig comes from klibc |
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| 19:57.38 | Habbie | jhutchins_wk, net-tools provides ifconfig on bullseye |
| 19:57.39 | greycat | ,v net-tools |
| 19:57.40 | judd | Package: net-tools on amd64 -- jessie: 1.60-26+b1; stretch: 1.60+git20161116.90da8a0-1; bullseye: 1.60+git20180626.aebd88e-1; buster: 1.60+git20180626.aebd88e-1; sid: 1.60+git20180626.aebd88e-1 |
| 19:57.41 | Habbie | jhutchins_wk, just like on buster |
| 19:57.47 | greycat | still there, for now |
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| 19:58.38 | SerajewelKS | jhutchins_wk: actually no :) ipconfig is in the initrd |
| 19:58.41 | jhutchins_wk | Habbie: Yup, got a nice shiney copy on my systems for when I reflexively use it instead of working to learn the new tools. |
| 19:58.59 | SerajewelKS | jhutchins_wk: however, ipconfig being the windows tool makes finding documentation rather difficult, but i found it |
| 19:59.16 | sklv1 | literally 5th time trying to make it past the debian grub screen without it rando freezing. never have i seen such an overly complicated grub config |
| 19:59.22 | SerajewelKS | jhutchins_wk: zless /usr/share/doc/klibc-utils/README.ipconfig.gz |
| 19:59.30 | todi | I'm from Germany I do not understand English very well but I take Google |
| 19:59.41 | todi | translator |
| 19:59.47 | trek00 | sklv1: graphics problems? |
| 20:00.05 | Habbie | todi, don't worry, we're patient with non-english speakers |
| 20:00.32 | trek00 | todi: guten nacht :) |
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| 20:00.52 | sklv1 | ... if i leave it on the 1st entry it reliably boots evreytime. my issue is i need to select the 2nd entry. i don't have any problems with graphics, but i'd say a grub config that has pretty pictures but poor stability, does have graphics problems |
| 20:00.56 | Habbie | trek00, abend, it's too early for nacht :) |
| 20:01.15 | somiaj | sklv1: have you tried the text based installer (not grahical)? Also random freezes, could your memeory just be bad? |
| 20:01.26 | trek00 | Habbie: :) |
| 20:01.37 | Habbie | trek00, (also Abend and Nacht because German capitalises nouns) |
| 20:01.49 | sklv1 | it's not random, it's extremely predictable. it happens only when i try to enter input into the grub menu |
| 20:02.20 | trek00 | sklv1: then it freeze? |
| 20:02.23 | sklv1 | i have already completed the installer, i have created a custom menu entry for the thing i'm trying to work with, and finding it literally impossible to select it and then press enter |
| 20:02.40 | sklv1 | well, about 75%-95% of the time, yes |
| 20:02.43 | todi | I'm going to go in tomorrow gonna go to bed now I'm tired of all a good night until tomorrow |
| 20:04.30 | trek00 | sklv1: you can try to disable graphical menu, uncommenting GRUB_TERMINAL=console in /etc/default/grub and then run update-grub |
| 20:04.36 | SerajewelKS | trek00: for reference, here is my write-up: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/10/msg00845.html |
| 20:04.50 | sklv1 | thanks, i will try that |
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| 20:06.52 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: just a tip about partitions: i would create a boot partition on both disks, so if one fails you can boot with the other :) |
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| 20:10.54 | SerajewelKS | trek00: normally i do that |
| 20:11.23 | sklv1 | i changed the default selection to 1 to avoid regenerating /boot/grub/grub.cfg |
| 20:11.23 | SerajewelKS | trek00: but /boot on an iSCSI volume isn't going to help :) |
| 20:11.57 | sklv1 | trying to make bioses, bootloaders and other similar components pretty is fundamentally misguided and pointless and can only result in low quality software and issues like this |
| 20:12.41 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: right |
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| 20:13.41 | trek00 | sklv1: i agree, but many users care more about graphical design than stability |
| 20:13.42 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i do need to figure out one thing though... open-iscsi will not continue boot until it has established a session |
| 20:14.00 | SerajewelKS | trek00: if the remote volume has failed then boot will stall, even though there is a locally-present side of the mirror as well |
| 20:14.12 | SerajewelKS | i need to figure out how to get the scripts to eventually give up and try booting |
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| 20:15.34 | jhutchins_wk | SerajewelKS: Isn't your os on the iscsi? |
| 20:16.10 | SerajewelKS | jhutchins_wk: / on LVM on md-raid raid1. one side of the mirror is local SATA, the other is remote iSCSI. |
| 20:16.31 | SerajewelKS | even with two remote iSCSI devices in a mirror, it would be nice to be able to boot if one of them is not available |
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| 20:21.28 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: may be the login_timeout option in iscsid.conf? |
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| 20:22.14 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i can try but i think that just controls the timeout for each attempt |
| 20:22.27 | SerajewelKS | trek00: i think the initrd scripts loop until the connection works |
| 20:22.58 | SerajewelKS | but i can check the scripts and see if there is some setting i can change to affect its behavior |
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| 20:32.49 | Morg0th | Hello, do you know why I'm getting that bunch of text http://paste.debian.net/1109423 in all my terminals when I close/open the lid of my laptop? I don't know what I can do about this |
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| 20:34.11 | trek00 | Morg0th: they are hardware problems, see https://www.advancedclustering.com/act_kb/what-are-machine-check-exceptions-or-mce/ |
| 20:36.56 | cilkay | Hello. I'm doing a Buster preseed install where I don't have a DHCP server. I'm looking at https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/example-preseed.txt and it still references eth1. Modern Debian uses different network device names depending on the hardware. First, how would I specify the device name without knowing it in advance and second, how do I force the installer to use a static IP? My preseed file does exactly what is in that example and it still |
| 20:36.56 | cilkay | attempts DHCP. |
| 20:37.01 | trek00 | Morg0th: when you close the lid, may be it hibernates? |
| 20:37.29 | Morg0th | trek00: thanks, i'll have a look. no it doesn't hibernate, the screen just goes black |
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| 20:38.17 | ctrlrisc | this isn't the channel for discussing issues with sid, is it? |
| 20:38.39 | nkuttler | !debian-next |
| 20:38.39 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 20:39.01 | cilkay | Just to get the preseed install working with a static IP configuration, I got rid of the second network interface specification but the installer is still attempting DHCP, timing out, and prompting me for what to do, which defeats the purpose of a preseed install. |
| 20:39.02 | ctrlrisc | thank you |
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| 20:40.05 | trek00 | cilkay: have you tried the Static network configuration part commented in the preseed file? |
| 20:40.19 | cilkay | I also tried using "d-i netcfg/dhcp_options select Continue" and then "d-i netcfg/dhcp_options select Configure network manually" but that didn't make any difference. |
| 20:40.37 | cilkay | @trek00, Yes, I did. The Internet is full of reports of this failing, btw. |
| 20:40.39 | trek00 | ctrlrisc: i think it is #debian-next on oftc.net but you can try to ask here |
| 20:41.46 | cilkay | I also tried "d-i preseed/early_command string kill-all-dhcp; netcfg" based on one report of it working. Didn't work. |
| 20:41.47 | Morg0th | trek00: any idea how i can get rid of those error messages? the link doesn't provide much information |
| 20:42.09 | trek00 | cilkay: to disable the predictable interface names you can boot with net.ifnames=0 biosdevname=0 |
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| 20:42.50 | cilkay | trek00, I do that after it has been installed. Is it possible to do during the preseed install, too? |
| 20:43.09 | cilkay | I have many scripts that depend upon eth0 and eth1 naming. |
| 20:43.32 | trek00 | Morg0th: may be some cable on your laptop make a shortcircuit when opening it |
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| 20:44.02 | trek00 | cilkay: yes, it's a boot parameter you can set on installer too |
| 20:44.39 | cilkay | trek00, Oh that's cool! How do you set boot parameters when I'm booting from the ISO? Do I have to remaster the ISO? |
| 20:45.09 | cilkay | That's also how people are setting static IP, btw, as a boot parameter. |
| 20:45.24 | cilkay | For that, you need to specify the interface name. |
| 20:45.57 | cilkay | recalls reading something about a limit of 256(?) characters for boot parameters. |
| 20:46.05 | trek00 | cilkay: i think you can specify it when you select the installation mode (expert, graphical, etc) |
| 20:46.09 | jhutchins_wk | Morg0th: Other than the messages, are there any signs of actual problems once you are up again? |
| 20:47.54 | cilkay | trek00, I'm using Packer to build this VM on a VMware ESXi host. The relevant bit seems to be this: "boot_command": ["<down><esc><wait>auto url=http://myhost/esxi-fw-preseed.cfg <enter>"] |
| 20:48.02 | sklv1 | Morg0th: i'd hazard a guess that it's to do with your CPU changing power states. I also suspect they're harmless. If they weren't causing me a concrete problem i wouldn't bother spending time fixing them |
| 20:48.12 | Morg0th | jhutchins_wk: no, everything seems fine, I don't notice any issues... it's just those damned messages that mess up all my terminals |
| 20:48.25 | cilkay | That's like an expect script where I can see it typing one character at a time. Ugly, but it works. |
| 20:49.03 | Morg0th | sklv1: yes that's very possible. but the problem is that these messages appear in all my terminals and mess up what was previously displayed in them. I'd just want to hide them. |
| 20:49.07 | sklv1 | Morg0th: yea I don't work in tty0 for this reason :) if they're appearing outside tty0 you should definitely be able to do something about that |
| 20:49.37 | cilkay | trek00, thanks for the tip. I'll research how I can pass boot parameters to Packer's "boot_command". |
| 20:49.52 | Morg0th | sklv1: i'm in my xmonad desktop environment, using irssi. tty0 is the full terminal mode (before running startx), right? |
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| 20:50.26 | jhutchins_wk | Morg0th: On a linux system yes. |
| 20:50.34 | sklv1 | Morg0th: right, your issue is not the mce, your issue is that syslogd is sending it to your terminals. google "disable message from syslog" and that covers how to stop syslog doing that |
| 20:50.45 | jhutchins_wk | Does wayland accept X forwarding? |
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| 20:52.36 | Morg0th | sklv1: that makes total sense, thanks! checking it now |
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| 20:53.33 | zapatista | I observed a similar behavior when I was using wayland and now I am using gnome classic and that problem is gone. |
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| 21:18.07 | Morg0th | About my problem with error messages that appear in the terminals, I just rebooted after having adapted /etc/rsyslog.conf but now my whole system freezes for like 20 seconds when i close/open the lid. I guess it's not related to my rsyslog.conf changes, but this is clearly worse than having messages in terminals :/ |
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| 21:24.32 | Abdullah | which vim has +clipboard in debian? |
| 21:24.45 | Abdullah | I have vim.nox but no clipbaord |
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| 21:26.10 | somiaj | maybe you just need to turn it on via some set foo |
| 21:27.17 | somiaj | hmm google seems to suggest set clipboard=unamedplus (thinking that is the + clipboard) |
| 21:28.23 | somiaj | Abdullah: in vim run :echo has('clipboard') and see if it outputs a 1 |
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| 21:28.45 | somiaj | or from the shell, vim --version | grep clipboard and look for +clipboard |
| 21:29.00 | somiaj | I have vim-gtk, so unsure if vim.nox has different compile flags or not |
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| 21:29.02 | Abdullah | somiaj: I came here after checking it. btw thanks |
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| 21:29.37 | Abdullah | and I have to install vim-gtk. yeah. I thought vim.nox has everything included. |
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| 21:30.04 | somiaj | yea, I dont have vim-nox installed, so not something I can check here. |
| 21:31.08 | somiaj | just checked in a vm, vim-nox doesn't have +clipboard, might be the matainer assumes you don't need this if you aren't using X (to keep from pulling in xlib depends) |
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| 21:31.55 | Abdullah | somiaj: here is https://bpaste.net/show/QRHUY my vimrc |
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| 21:33.13 | somiaj | It appears in this case vim.nox is compiled -clipboard, so you don't have access to it if using vim-nox. |
| 21:33.13 | Abdullah | I think maintainer should compile it with clipboard support. else we have to compile it ourselves. |
| 21:33.24 | somiaj | why not just install vim-gtk or some other vim variatn. |
| 21:33.55 | Abdullah | somiaj: installed vim-gtk but I don't need gui for vim. |
| 21:34.25 | somiaj | that is fine, vim still runs in a terminal, gvim runs in a gui |
| 21:34.41 | somiaj | vim.gtk isn't a gui, gvim.gtk is |
| 21:35.02 | somiaj | I think the idea of vim-nox is to not have any X dependencies, which probably is why -clipboard is used (my guess) |
| 21:35.21 | somiaj | well I guess gvim is just vim with :gui ran |
| 21:36.16 | Abdullah | somiaj: I have got gvim binary |
| 21:36.22 | Abdullah | with vim-gtk |
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| 21:37.10 | Abdullah | and I sometimes edit too files in different instances of urxvtc without using vimdiff so I need clipboard |
| 21:37.43 | Abdullah | lemme try it in ttys |
| 21:37.58 | somiaj | well without running X, you won't have access to the X clipboard. |
| 21:37.58 | Abdullah | oh but there we have tmux clipboard ;-) |
| 21:38.12 | somiaj | so that is why vim-nox doesn't include it. |
| 21:38.18 | somiaj | and yea, tmux has a nice clipboard you can use. |
| 21:38.19 | Abdullah | hmm |
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| 21:38.47 | somiaj | I don't think tty's by default have a clipboard, and so unless you are running multiple filies in the same vim instance, you can't use vim's internal clipboard. |
| 21:38.57 | trek00 | Abdullah: vimdiff is awesome, thank you mentioned it! |
| 21:38.59 | Abdullah | yeah I use that. here is tmux.conf https://bpaste.net/show/M26ZG |
| 21:41.01 | Abdullah | somiaj: I have something in .zprofile which on login checks if I'm not on tty1, it opens/attachs new/existing tmux session |
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| 22:04.31 | Jmabsd | Shittux is depreciating sysctl(2), wtf?? https://linux.die.net/man/2/sysctl |
| 22:04.33 | Jmabsd | what's the thought? |
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| 22:19.13 | trek00 | Jmabsd: check this https://lwn.net/Articles/247243/ |
| 22:19.18 | m0rd3cai | Hey ive got a weird question. linux years ago when it would load, it would display all the loading information. Is there a way to show that information again? a setting I can change? ive googled but i'm not hitting the right keywords. |
| 22:19.43 | Jmabsd | ah i see now. |
| 22:21.27 | trek00 | m0rd3cai: probably you have GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT with quiet in /etc/default/grub |
| 22:23.35 | m0rd3cai | thanks trek00 that at least gives me a direction to go from here! |
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| 22:24.08 | trek00 | m0rd3cai: you should remove quiet from the kernel command line |
| 22:24.25 | m0rd3cai | your right. Should I remove the whole line or just quiet and leave "" |
| 22:24.41 | somiaj | m0rd3cai: second, just leave "" |
| 22:25.06 | somiaj | m0rd3cai: that way if you need to add thinsg to that in the future, it is already in place. Also you must run 'update-grub' after you make changes there for the changes to take affect. |
| 22:25.08 | m0rd3cai | cool man, lets see what happens |
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| 22:28.56 | Jmabsd | for me clarified, leaving. |
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| 23:28.33 | kreyren | Where should i point `PKG_CONFIG_PATH` on debian? |
| 23:30.22 | dvs | kreyren, it depends who's gonna need it. |
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| 23:32.52 | kreyren | dvs, apparently wine for WoW64 |
| 23:32.59 | kreyren | https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2016-January/111245.html |
| 23:33.21 | dvs | so everyone's gonna use wine? |
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| 23:38.12 | Gigglebyte | Is there a plugin tool that would allow me to search the file manager? |
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