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| 00:06.18 | trek00 | CrystalMath: on buster i have installed linux-image-amd64 |
| 00:06.37 | CrystalMath | trek00: yes but that depends on the signed version |
| 00:06.42 | CrystalMath | i want the unsigned version |
| 00:07.10 | CrystalMath | furthermore, i compiled my own with many security features disabled, but i want to add preempt_rt to it |
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| 00:08.28 | trek00 | CrystalMath: may be linux-image-4.19.0-6-amd64-unsigned |
| 00:08.44 | trek00 | CrystalMath: sorry it was an error |
| 00:09.04 | CrystalMath | yes but that is a specific version |
| 00:09.12 | CrystalMath | will that still auto-upgrade? |
| 00:09.31 | CrystalMath | especially since, it had to *remove* linux-image-amd64 |
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| 00:09.41 | trek00 | CrystalMath: not, i wrote that in error |
| 00:09.53 | CrystalMath | because it conflicts with linux-image-4.19.0-6-amd64 |
| 00:14.08 | trek00 | CrystalMath: about debugging features it blocks, you mean you can't compile and load a modified version of a module? |
| 00:14.26 | CrystalMath | more than that |
| 00:14.42 | CrystalMath | but yeah custom modules and stuff |
| 00:14.56 | CrystalMath | anyway, i have unsigned, but i want them to upgrade automatically |
| 00:15.41 | CrystalMath | i would also personally like it to not waste time on nonsense such as module signing |
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| 00:16.03 | trek00 | CrystalMath: it seems this metapackage is missing |
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| 00:17.48 | CrystalMath | that's really sad |
| 00:18.58 | karlpinc | CrystalMath: Submit a wishlist bug report. Seems easy to satisfy your request. |
| 00:19.11 | CrystalMath | yeah but i won't get it in stable |
| 00:19.43 | SerajewelKS | is there any web-based "user self-service" software for LDAP users, where they could e.g. change their own password? |
| 00:20.02 | karlpinc | CrystalMath: True. But eventually. It could be that somebody backports it (and keeps up with backporting it.) |
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| 00:20.26 | CrystalMath | the backported version will likely depend on backported kernels |
| 00:20.33 | CrystalMath | it's just toast, i have to think of another way |
| 00:20.40 | karlpinc | SerajewelKS: You would think so, but I don't know. RH open sourced some ldap gui admin tool. Maybe there's a component. |
| 00:21.02 | SerajewelKS | karlpinc: it is possible with phpldapadmin but it's so convoluted for an end user |
| 00:21.10 | CrystalMath | maybe a cron job that will email me if it finds a newer kernel |
| 00:21.17 | cinesc | when you just wget it doesn´t require root? |
| 00:21.27 | SerajewelKS | sign in, click your cn=* name below the action icons, find userPassword, make sure hash is set to ssha... |
| 00:21.29 | cinesc | use wget* |
| 00:21.29 | karlpinc | cinesc: Nope, not root. |
| 00:21.46 | cinesc | ok |
| 00:22.42 | karlpinc | CrystalMath: Maybe there's already a package that emails when it finds some newer package of some kind. :-) |
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| 00:22.52 | SerajewelKS | karlpinc: hmm i just found https://github.com/ltb-project/self-service-password |
| 00:23.10 | CrystalMath | karlpinc: do you know any? |
| 00:23.26 | karlpinc | CrystalMath: No. Maybe search with debtags. |
| 00:23.31 | CrystalMath | hmm, maybe unattended upgrades could do it |
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| 00:24.08 | karlpinc | CrystalMath: That sounds plausible. |
| 00:25.21 | CrystalMath | karlpinc: btw what about my other question? |
| 00:25.24 | SerajewelKS | if you uninstalled the kernel metapackage though, there won't be any "updates" |
| 00:25.35 | SerajewelKS | there will just be a new package |
| 00:25.45 | CrystalMath | SerajewelKS: yeah that's why i need to make it look for packages somehow |
| 00:26.05 | CrystalMath | that fit the form "linux-image-4.16.*-amd64-unsigned" |
| 00:26.28 | CrystalMath | karlpinc: my other question was, how do i apply the preempt_rt debian uses for linux-image-rt |
| 00:26.34 | CrystalMath | karlpinc: where is its source? |
| 00:27.03 | SerajewelKS | CrystalMath: apt-cache search 'linux-image-4\.16\..*-amd64-unsigned' | sort > /tmp/kernel-list |
| 00:27.22 | SerajewelKS | CrystalMath: then daily in cron, diff that against the new output and email it to yourself if non-blank |
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| 00:28.21 | SerajewelKS | CrystalMath: should not be too hard to script something like this |
| 00:28.30 | CrystalMath | yeah |
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| 00:31.51 | CrystalMath | thank you SerajewelKS :) |
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| 00:35.35 | SerajewelKS | CrystalMath: you could also just rely on cron to email you output |
| 00:36.23 | CrystalMath | it's pretty easy, even to automatically check if it's installed |
| 00:36.26 | SerajewelKS | CrystalMath: http://paste.debian.net/1111848/ |
| 00:36.26 | CrystalMath | and upgrade |
| 00:37.08 | SerajewelKS | CrystalMath: making that into a script and putting it in your user's crontab should work |
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| 00:41.18 | CrystalMath | well it's also easy to list installed packages |
| 00:41.24 | CrystalMath | and figure out whether an upgrade is needed |
| 00:41.30 | CrystalMath | and even upgrade in that case |
| 00:42.05 | CrystalMath | still wondering about PREEMPT RT though |
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| 00:49.50 | cinesc | Do I need to do something more after wget https://github.com/intel/Intel-Linux-Processor-Microcode-Data-Files to make sure nothing breaks the system? |
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| 01:02.08 | cinesc | how did you open a folder in a file manager window with the terminal? |
| 01:03.01 | tomreyn | nautilus /path/to/folder i would think |
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| 01:03.21 | cinesc | doesn´t seem to work with dolphin |
| 01:04.07 | tomreyn | about your other question, you could try https://github.com/speed47/spectre-meltdown-checker |
| 01:04.52 | cinesc | tried it and found out over half of those are not mitigated and trying to solve it |
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| 01:05.45 | cinesc | all because of the cpu side lacking what was needed |
| 01:06.35 | tomreyn | thats what "bios" upgrades and microcode updates are for, if they exist for your cpu, yes |
| 01:06.58 | cinesc | fortunately I found one |
| 01:07.25 | tomreyn | try this for dolphin: kfmclient exec /path/to/the/directory/ |
| 01:07.42 | cinesc | although I need to open a folder path I seem to have problem using because of the file manager |
| 01:08.21 | tomreyn | i can't parse this statement. |
| 01:09.18 | cinesc | it solved the weird issue I had |
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| 01:10.37 | cinesc | nope the same thing happened |
| 01:10.53 | cinesc | at root trying to access the root folder |
| 01:11.17 | cinesc | got thiswhen attempting |
| 01:11.38 | cinesc | qt.qpa.screen: QXcbConnection: Could not connect to display |
| 01:11.46 | cinesc | Could not connect to any X display. |
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| 01:12.14 | tomreyn | makes sense, don't run X applications as root. |
| 01:12.42 | cinesc | what can i do instead to reach to what I need? |
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| 01:13.34 | cinesc | need to edit grub to match a package I downloaded with the terminal before I restart in case something unexpected happen |
| 01:13.39 | tomreyn | use the terminal if you need to work outside of your home and directories your restricted user has access to |
| 01:14.00 | cinesc | yes trying to do that |
| 01:14.07 | annadane | does anyone know why hexchat constantly ignores me /ignore freenode-connect so i don't get the ctcp version check every time on startup? =/ |
| 01:14.18 | annadane | ignores my* |
| 01:14.33 | annadane | at least the first few times... |
| 01:14.49 | cinesc | going to try with nautilus instead |
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| 01:16.49 | cinesc | nope got worse than dolphin |
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| 01:18.08 | tomreyn | no you're not tryint to work with the temrinal, you're trying to start a graphical file browser as the root user, which can't work since root doesn't run an X server, and then have that graphical file browser access a directory your restricted user has no access to. that's two mistakes at once. |
| 01:18.39 | cinesc | weird thing it worked on another computer |
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| 01:19.01 | Thienma | anyone in here is using a wireless pci adapter? |
| 01:19.02 | cinesc | or I am forgetting one thing |
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| 01:19.48 | tomreyn | Thienma: most certainly, but don't poll, just ask your actual question please. |
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| 01:24.06 | cinesc | how do I open a file like a folder as root? |
| 01:24.37 | cinesc | want to get this procedure completed before I quit |
| 01:25.12 | Thienma | tomreyn, I'm trying to find one that worked best with debian. |
| 01:25.18 | tomreyn | cinesc: why dont you just use the shell? |
| 01:25.56 | cinesc | the terminal? using it right now trying to figure out |
| 01:26.18 | tomreyn | use it to do whatever else you need to do in /root, too |
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| 01:28.41 | tomreyn | Thienma: you'd need to pick a chipset, then base don that hopefully find a brand and model which sells with this chipset. this is maybe a bit outdated https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi#Availability_of_compatible_WiFi_chipsets |
| 01:29.15 | cinesc | how do I open a file within i (not as in open to pop up in a new window like a window) and edit? |
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| 01:29.17 | Thienma | I looked into this already. I'm checking with you to see if you have experience more. |
| 01:29.33 | Thienma | yes, this is outdated. |
| 01:29.54 | Thienma | I want something that stable and fast :) |
| 01:30.20 | Thienma | solid connection |
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| 01:32.12 | tomreyn | Thienma: you probably want a realtek or atheros one, one which supports 802.11ac if your router can do this. |
| 01:32.31 | tomreyn | if you want a "solid connection" then don't use wireless. |
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| 01:33.22 | Thienma | we don't have anything for wireless that like wired? |
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| 01:34.02 | tomreyn | use ethernet wherever possible |
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| 01:34.50 | ahoo_ | why? |
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| 01:37.55 | tomreyn | less latency, less jitter, less packet loss, higher bandwidth, less power consumption, can't be snooped on as easily |
| 01:38.55 | Thienma | i'm interesting in this card Rosewill Rnx-AC1900PCE, 802.11AC |
| 01:39.01 | Thienma | anyone is using it? |
| 01:40.13 | Thienma | my spot is tough to drop a wire that looks good lol |
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| 01:46.34 | tomreyn | Thienma: that's got a broadcom vhipset, don't buy this one. |
| 01:46.42 | tomreyn | *chipset |
| 01:46.45 | Thienma | oh |
| 01:47.13 | Thienma | realtek or atheros only? |
| 01:47.23 | Thienma | what chipsets I should look into tomreyn ? |
| 01:48.38 | tomreyn | here's a list of atheros 802.11ac chipsets (ath10k driver) and matching brands/models https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/ath10k |
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| 01:49.49 | Thienma | thank you for your suggestion. I will look into it. |
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| 01:58.06 | jpikz | clear |
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| 01:58.10 | jpikz | boosh |
| 01:58.31 | annadane | good grief |
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| 02:11.10 | oxek | any recommendation for a wifi-n or wifi-ac USB adapter that works in debian without non-free firmware? |
| 02:12.23 | Ether_Man | Is there something I have to do before I can mount a btrfs fs when booting in rescue mode from install disk? I've mounted the fs before during the install from the same media and all but it won't during rescue? Getting invalid argument error from mount, and syslog says it can't read the system array and open_ctree failed. Multidrive array if that matters |
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| 02:15.35 | oxek | are you mounting it with -t btrfs option? |
| 02:15.40 | Ether_Man | Yes |
| 02:15.42 | oxek | Ether_Man: ^ |
| 02:16.13 | Ether_Man | And I can use the btrfs commands to see the fs and everything so it's very much there and not degraded or anything :/ |
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| 02:16.35 | oxek | what's the error you get? |
| 02:16.46 | oxek | exactly |
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| 02:22.18 | Ether_Man | '~# mount -t btrfs /dev/sda1 /target/' "mount: mounting /dev/sda1 on /target/ failed: Invalid argument" syslog gives 5 lines. "BTRFS info (device sda1): disk space caching is enabled" "BTRFS info (device sda1): has skinny extents" "BTRFS error (device sda1): devid 6 uuid <uuid> is missing" "BTRFS error (device sda1): failed to read the system array: -2" "BTRFS error (device sda1): open_ctree failed" |
| 02:23.06 | Ether_Man | devid 6, corresponds to /dev/sdb1, and 'btrfs fi show' shows it is there |
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| 02:27.10 | Ether_Man | Hmm.. wait... suddenly it works... wtf? |
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| 02:27.42 | Ether_Man | I even used the backlog for the command so I'm 100% sure it was the SAME damn command I used too O_o |
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| 02:33.23 | oxek | Ether_Man: you probably tried mounting it before all the stuff was loaded in the rescue environment |
| 02:33.56 | oxek | sometimes I get a similar problem |
| 02:33.59 | Ether_Man | it loads things in the background even after I launch a shell? |
| 02:34.21 | oxek | maybe. I sometimes get a problem that mount does not work, I wait a few minutes, and the same mount command now works |
| 02:34.45 | Ether_Man | How weird :) |
| 02:35.01 | oxek | stranger things have happened |
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| 02:46.15 | apteryx | karlpinc: that's where I looked at, and in the rules file, couldn't find anything particular done to site-start.el. Just wanted to confirm. |
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| 03:05.03 | karlpinc | apteryx: I suppose it is possible that some other package puts something somewhere that alters emacs' behavior. But then it's not really emacs that is the issue. |
| 03:06.05 | karlpinc | apteryx: Or it could be a debian patch to some other part of emacs. You'd have to look at all the patches descriptions. (I presume there are descriptions.) |
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| 03:20.51 | apteryx | karlpinc: thanks |
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| 03:25.19 | karlpinc | apteryx: Humm. See: zless /usr/share/doc/emacs25-common/README.Debian.gz |
| 03:25.25 | karlpinc | !readme.debian |
| 03:25.26 | dpkg | README.Debian (or README.Debian.gz) is a document found in the /usr/share/doc/$packagename/ which explains any Debian specific details in the package's operation or configuration. |
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| 03:31.13 | karlpinc | apteryx: I don't see anything about package.el. |
| 03:31.41 | apteryx | maybe someone dreamt about it. eh! thanks for the useful pointers :-) |
| 03:32.27 | karlpinc | apteryx: I am running stretch, so you might check buster. |
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| 03:47.31 | Ether_Man | Hm. If I need to make an edit to the post-install script, where are they located? |
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| 03:52.44 | jmcnaught | Ether_Man: /var/lib/dpkg/info/<package>.postinst |
| 03:53.21 | Ether_Man | Cheers :) |
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| 04:03.18 | Ether_Man | Aww ;_; it's in some random subscript that it calls >_< |
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| 04:50.02 | n-iCe | hi guys, how do I know if my wifi card works with Debian. When using the netinstall ( 02:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 7260 (rev 73) |
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| 04:56.49 | wawowe | n-iCe: you will most likely need to get the firmware iwlwifi-7260 https://packages.debian.org/buster/firmware-linux-nonfree |
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| 04:57.08 | n-iCe | wawowe: or use the non-free iso, right? |
| 04:58.10 | wawowe | n-iCe: yes |
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| 04:58.31 | n-iCe | Perfect, is testing that much buggy? or should I do to stable |
| 04:58.45 | n-iCe | go |
| 04:59.33 | wawowe | n-iCe: it's up to you, testing is testing |
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| 05:00.15 | n-iCe | stable then hehe |
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| 05:02.38 | n-iCe | done, gonna install Debian thanks wooden brbr |
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| 05:14.00 | sfplehardy | Hi guys ! Hope you doing well ! So when I start my computer no more grub... It happened just like that, no known reason why... So when I am supposed to see Grub screen, I have a black screen that show only "_" and no way to type anything....... |
| 05:15.22 | sfplehardy | From live-debian I can see boot file with grub in it |
| 05:16.06 | sfplehardy | It's really strange for me, but I have a very basic knowledge |
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| 05:18.07 | wawowe | sfplehardy: Does your bios have uefi enabled? |
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| 05:19.11 | sfplehardy | Wawowe ok I check on it, thanks |
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| 05:21.58 | n-iCe | Done, I'm in Debian! |
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| 05:24.44 | sfplehardy | Yes wawowe, uefi enabled |
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| 05:27.42 | wawowe | sfplehardy: mount /dev/sda1 /boot/efi && grub-install |
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| 05:28.25 | sfplehardy | Ok wawowe I look at it |
| 05:28.29 | n-iCe | wawowe: Sorry, can't find how to enable my touchpad in my laptop for click. |
| 05:30.03 | wawowe | n-iCe: dmesg|grep -i synaptics |
| 05:31.30 | wawowe | n-iCe: if the dmesg shows you stuff then, apt-get install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics |
| 05:31.57 | n-iCe | wawowe: done |
| 05:32.25 | n-iCe | installed |
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| 05:33.40 | wawowe | n-iCe: restart Xorg or reboot |
| 05:33.45 | n-iCe | wawowe: ok! |
| 05:34.00 | sfplehardy | Wawowe -> /boot/efi : mount point does not exist. |
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| 05:35.38 | n-iCe | wawowe: thanks |
| 05:35.40 | n-iCe | working now! |
| 05:37.43 | wawowe | sfplehardy: ls /boot/grub |
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| 05:38.06 | wawowe | sfplehardy: are there files in there? |
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| 05:39.06 | wawowe | sfplehardy: mkdir /boot/efi; mount /dev/sda1 /boot/efi |
| 05:39.41 | sfplehardy | wawowe ... ls: cannot access '/boot/grub' : No such file or directory |
| 05:40.25 | wawowe | sfplehardy: ok, so you have a shell on the livecd? |
| 05:40.37 | sfplehardy | Yes |
| 05:40.53 | wawowe | sfplehardy: fdisk -l /dev/sda |
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| 05:42.19 | sfplehardy | wawowe "command not found" need to install fdisk is it? |
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| 05:43.00 | wawowe | sfplehardy: are you root? |
| 05:43.22 | sfplehardy | Oh sorry yes I wasn't... |
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| 05:44.23 | wawowe | sfplehardy: you should see something like /dev/sda1 EFI System, /dev/sda2 Linux filesystem |
| 05:44.45 | sfplehardy | wawowe yes you are right |
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| 05:46.15 | wawowe | sfplehardy: mkdir /mntpnt; mount /dev/sda2 /mntpnt |
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| 05:46.48 | wawowe | sfplehardy: mount /dev/sda1 /mntpnt/boot/efi |
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| 05:48.22 | wawowe | sfplehardy: mount -o bind /dev /mntpnt/dev; mount -o bind /sys /mntpnt/sys; mount -t proc proc /mntpnt/proc |
| 05:49.18 | wawowe | sfplehardy: chroot /mntpnt |
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| 05:49.32 | sfplehardy | Do you know the live-cd root password wawowe? |
| 05:50.09 | trek00 | sfplehardy: may be you can try: sudo su - |
| 05:50.33 | wawowe | sfplehardy: grub-install |
| 05:51.23 | sfplehardy | I always forget that password |
| 05:52.22 | wawowe | sfplehardy: do what trek00 said |
| 05:52.52 | sfplehardy | Very good ! |
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| 05:53.34 | wawowe | sfplehardy: and after the grub-install,(assuming it's successful), type exit and then reboot |
| 05:54.12 | sfplehardy | Mkdir cannot create directory '/mntpnt': File exists |
| 05:54.59 | sfplehardy | After doing : mkdir /mntpnt; mount /dev/sda2 /mntpnt |
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| 05:56.29 | wawowe | sfplehardy: mount | grep mntpnt |
| 05:56.38 | wawowe | sfplehardy: what does that return? |
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| 05:58.45 | sfplehardy | ... |
| 05:59.05 | sfplehardy | Sorry, |
| 06:00.09 | sfplehardy | It is difficult now, because I am typing from my smartphone so I am going on IRC on my computer, sorry about that |
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| 06:05.08 | sfphlehardy | ok wawowe, much confortable now ! |
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| 06:05.39 | co1or | hey ive been doing a lot of research, and apparently, if I *DO* "downgrade" ("upgrade"?) to Debian from LinuxMint, I will still be able to do all the things I can already do on LinuxMint. (Apparently, there are open source drivers available for most categories hardware, that will be compatible with the vast majority of makes & models. [*THAT'S* what I was concerned about before!]) |
| 06:06.07 | co1or | categories OF hardware* |
| 06:06.08 | sfphlehardy | wawowe -> mount | grep mntpnt/dev/sda2 on /mntpnt type ext4 (rw,relatime) |
| 06:06.30 | klys | co1or, would you mind reinstalling? |
| 06:07.21 | co1or | ((and even if they dont come WITH the default installation, they are probably easily downloaded via "apt-get install" or some such similar method.) |
| 06:07.32 | wawowe | sfphlehardy: ok, go ahead with the next part |
| 06:07.45 | sfphlehardy | ok wawowe |
| 06:08.27 | co1or | klys: i will probably burn a live cd first, to test the waters. then do a seperate partition install, so i can keep my existing OS. |
| 06:08.38 | klys | co1or, if you have room, I suggest starting by getting a simple enough debian system in a chroot, and then swapping out mint |
| 06:08.51 | co1or | dunno what chroot is |
| 06:09.05 | co1or | i can look it up tho |
| 06:09.12 | co1or | looks it up... |
| 06:12.09 | klys | co1or, another tool worth looking up, while you're at it, is debootstrap |
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| 06:13.17 | co1or | ok i just looked up chroot. apparently, it "tricks" a program into thinking that the root directory is somewhere else? correct? (like sandboxing?) |
| 06:13.23 | klys | yes |
| 06:13.44 | co1or | so i would be "tricking" what exactly? the DEbian INSTALLER? |
| 06:13.45 | klys | and you can build a basic system in a chroot with complete commandline functionality. |
| 06:14.17 | klys | and to install, I suggest using the debootstrap tool, pointing it to your new root directory. |
| 06:15.15 | sfplehardy | wawowe you rock !!! |
| 06:15.23 | sfplehardy | Thank you so much |
| 06:15.38 | sfplehardy | But why it happened??? |
| 06:15.54 | co1or | imma look up "debootstrap"... so i would be using chroot to make Debian's installer BELIEVE it's installing to "/", but its actually installing to "/my/arbitrary/folder"??? |
| 06:16.03 | klys | yes |
| 06:16.08 | co1or | klys: ok |
| 06:16.11 | co1or | thx |
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| 06:17.00 | sfplehardy | Me, wife and our 5 kids we thank you wawowe, trek00 as well ! Thanks |
| 06:18.24 | co1or | just to make certain i understand, chroot is only "SIMILAR" to a sandbox. it only protects against accidents, NOT "malice", CORRECT? (afterall, a program that *TRULY* wants to "see" the "real, true" file structure could still do so, if it were coded to do so, right? |
| 06:18.40 | klys | right-o |
| 06:18.52 | co1or | klys'kay thx |
| 06:20.54 | co1or | klys: last question before i do it: what is the *biggest* or *most important* difference between Debian and a Debian-BASED distro? |
| 06:21.17 | co1or | the apps? desktop environment? |
| 06:21.37 | klys | co1or, probably the desktop environment. |
| 06:21.59 | klys | co1or, there are other important differences, though. |
| 06:22.23 | klys | systemd is one |
| 06:23.23 | co1or | ok. LinuxMint ships with Mate by default. Ive been using Linux for about 30 days now. So far, Im in love with Mate. (I HATE Ubuntu's newer "gnome3/Unity/whatever-its-called" desktop.) |
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| 06:25.16 | klys | co1or, let us know when you're ready to step in and install more packages. |
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| 06:25.31 | co1or | ive read about systemd online and asked a few ppl about it as well. im stiil a lil bit confused about what systemd is, tho. |
| 06:25.48 | co1or | is it between the kernel and the shell? |
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| 06:26.01 | co1or | or between the kernel and the GNU progs? |
| 06:26.01 | klys | co1or, I could try and explain it with a history lesson... |
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| 06:26.10 | co1or | ok |
| 06:26.36 | klys | originally, gnu systems booted with scripts via systemd. the /etc/inittab regulated the whole boot process. |
| 06:26.41 | wawowe | sfplehardy: You can edit the /boot/efi line in /etc/fstab to have the options: noauto,umask=0077 to help prevent corruption in the future |
| 06:27.11 | klys | now, systemd has taken over the boot process, largely because we thought it was too slow to run in a single thread. |
| 06:28.23 | klys | systemd is very complex, and if you want to install a boot-time script, you can do so with a "unit file" in /etc/systemd/system/ which contains a few stanzas of info and points to your script. |
| 06:29.00 | klys | most boot-time init scripts are stored in /etc/init.d/ with symlinks to aid sysvinit in /etc/rc?.d/ |
| 06:29.36 | co1or | following you the best i can... |
| 06:29.50 | co1or | listens attentively |
| 06:29.55 | klys | systemd is replacing that, though, and you'll find evidence of it in /etc/systemd, /lib/systemd, and maybe a few other places. |
| 06:30.21 | klys | sysvinit was a very simple program, one that insisted on being started at PID 1 |
| 06:30.38 | klys | systemd replaces /sbin/init and runs as PID 1. |
| 06:30.44 | diogenes_ | klys, you mean originally GNU systems booted with scripts via sysVinit and not systemd? |
| 06:30.57 | klys | diogenes_, yes |
| 06:31.16 | klys | oh I made that typo, I will correct. |
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| 06:31.26 | klys | originally, gnu systems booted with scripts via sysvinit. the /etc/inittab regulated the whole boot process. |
| 06:31.43 | co1or | klys: hmmmm. so is it related in some fashion to SystemV? or are the 2 names only co-incidentally similar? |
| 06:32.06 | klys | co1or, yes, system v unix was the source of many elements of the posix standards. |
| 06:32.12 | co1or | is it meant to REPLACE it? |
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| 06:32.28 | klys | yes, it fully replaces the sysvinit-core package |
| 06:32.58 | co1or | okay... i can feel my understanding increasing... |
| 06:33.04 | klys | and allows you to boot in parallel with several things being started according to a pattern of prerequisites. |
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| 06:33.34 | co1or | so system V is "system five"? as in UNIX version five? |
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| 06:33.41 | klys | co1or, yes. got it? |
| 06:33.53 | co1or | klys: starting to. |
| 06:35.30 | co1or | so do gnu/linux systems use any actual source code or binaries from Unix? (especially UNIX system V?) |
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| 06:36.43 | klys | co1or, the source code for unix was kept back by SCO for some years. GNU grep was a complete replacement of Unix grep, for example. it was later released for viewing a decade ago. well, Unix is now called openindiana, near as I can tell. |
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| 06:39.02 | co1or | so proprietary UNIX is no more? |
| 06:39.12 | klys | co1or, the gnu project, (gnu's not unix) and the free software foundation are excellent reads for this topic. |
| 06:39.44 | klys | it's "open-source" and there are always several proprietary Unices available. |
| 06:40.26 | co1or | ok. i dont wanna ask too much questions at one time. thank you for answering |
| 06:40.28 | klys | if you want to talk about proprietary posix-level systems, you may bo looking at Mac OS X. |
| 06:40.47 | klys | be* |
| 06:40.50 | sfplehardy | Okay wawowe thank you |
| 06:40.58 | co1or | oh no. I DONT wanna use proprietary systems unless forced to |
| 06:41.09 | co1or | at gunpoint |
| 06:41.17 | co1or | lol |
| 06:41.47 | klys | co1or, like I said, read at the fsf.org and gnu.org sites. read the GPL v2 and v3. look at the AGPL and make sure you know the basic differences. |
| 06:42.07 | co1or | alright |
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| 06:42.31 | trek00 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unix_history-simple.svg |
| 06:42.33 | trek00 | :) |
| 06:42.39 | co1or | ive already read a little bit on gnu.org |
| 06:42.43 | co1or | before. |
| 06:42.51 | co1or | but i will further research. |
| 06:42.56 | co1or | researches... |
| 06:43.08 | trek00 | co1or: check the link :) |
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| 06:43.55 | co1or | i already had that diagram. |
| 06:44.07 | co1or | before u posted it. |
| 06:44.24 | co1or | but as a newbie theres a lot im still not completely understanding |
| 06:44.46 | co1or | is reading |
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| 08:04.52 | xyz_ | :quir |
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| 08:37.46 | if_e1se_ | is there any way to let apt install show install packages like list format with each package end a line break ? |
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| 08:39.33 | if_e1se_ | `apt install` default show install packages with line mode. I want to find a way to show install package show like list mode. |
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| 08:41.29 | ratrace | if_e1se_: maybe with -V that includes version |
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| 08:42.09 | humpled | there's apt depends |
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| 08:42.26 | ayew | -V will show you version, but it will not include repo or arch like apt list does |
| 08:42.49 | ratrace | I think they just want more readable output with one package per line |
| 08:42.59 | ratrace | I want that to, so I always use -V |
| 08:43.08 | ratrace | *too |
| 08:43.15 | if_e1se_ | ratrace: thanks, `-V` show it with line list mode with package version. |
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| 08:43.36 | wxb | Hi. Well, I'm still in the process of trying to dual boot Windows (unencrypted) and Debian 10 (LUKS). Having some issues, and worries. I god the firmware iso and even with that the Debian install is telling me that it can't contect to internet... what could be going on? |
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| 08:45.22 | wxb | I think it's a DHCP issue |
| 08:47.15 | wxb | 'Network autoconfiguration failed' |
| 08:47.53 | wxb | 'Your network is probably not using the DHCP protocol. Alternatively, the DHCP server may be slow or some network hardware is not working properly.' |
| 08:48.06 | wxb | Does this mean that I can wave wifi on this machine goodbye? |
| 08:48.51 | RoyK | what sort of computer? |
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| 08:48.54 | wxb | HP |
| 08:49.04 | wxb | I'll try to find the model. |
| 08:49.25 | RoyK | EliteBook 725/745? |
| 08:50.26 | wxb | HP Notebook, product number Y0V00EA#ABF |
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| 08:51.33 | RoyK | wxb: no idea which one that is - they usually don't have that long model names. I just thought about an issue I came across https://wiki.malinux.no/index.php/Roy's_notes#Wifi_with_HP_EliteBook_725.2F745_on_Ubuntu |
| 08:53.18 | Fox | looks like it's HP Notebook 14-am012nf |
| 08:53.39 | wxb | Fox, How'd you find that out? |
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| 08:55.59 | wxb | So it's just some random no name HP?? |
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| 08:57.07 | Fox | wxb: I asked google, does it look like that ? http://media.flixcar.com/f360cdn/HP-1516105543-c05195200.pdf |
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| 08:57.46 | RoyK | wxb: anyway - try intremap=off |
| 08:58.00 | wxb | fox I think so! |
| 08:58.18 | wxb | wxb, Where, in the install process? |
| 08:58.39 | RoyK | kernel boot option |
| 08:58.51 | wxb | RoyK, in the install menu? |
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| 08:59.04 | ratrace | wxb: grub kernel command line |
| 08:59.16 | wxb | I haven't installed it yet... |
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| 08:59.37 | ratrace | wxb: is there no grub menu for the installer iso you're booting from? |
| 08:59.51 | damien_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:59.51 | wxb | GRub menu, advanced options... |
| 09:00.07 | wxb | expert install? |
| 09:00.12 | wxb | (lol expert for me) |
| 09:00.25 | wxb | or just grub command line? |
| 09:00.28 | ratrace | wxb: is there a grub menu for the installer iso you're booting from? |
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| 09:00.37 | wxb | ratrace, Yes. |
| 09:00.42 | wxb | So I hit 'c' |
| 09:00.53 | wxb | now I see grub> |
| 09:01.03 | wxb | I should enter your command RoyK |
| 09:01.04 | wxb | ? |
| 09:01.17 | ratrace | wxb: ok, so when the menu appears, hit 'e', scroll down to the line starting with linux /vmlinuz ... and append to it intremap=off and hit F10 to continue booting |
| 09:01.48 | ratrace | (I don't know if that option will fix it, just telling you where/how to set kernel command line options) |
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| 09:02.05 | wxb | ratrace, Thanks. |
| 09:02.11 | ratrace | wxb: also, patience. give people time to type up a response at least lol |
| 09:02.11 | wxb | RoyK, In grub then? |
| 09:02.21 | wxb | ratrace, oops sorry lol |
| 09:02.26 | RoyK | yes |
| 09:02.31 | wxb | RoyK, thanks |
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| 09:03.30 | wxb | Okay, I typed intremap=off in, hit enter and now I get a new grub> line. So I'll exit back to the install menu? |
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| 09:04.58 | ratrace | wxb: are you capable of following written instructions? I said hit 'e', not 'c' |
| 09:05.26 | wxb | ratrace, apparently not. Let me change that! |
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| 09:07.18 | wxb | Okay.... we're in.... |
| 09:07.25 | wxb | loading... |
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| 09:08.40 | wxb | And... same error message. |
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| 09:08.44 | wxb | Hmmm. |
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| 09:10.35 | wxb | My concern is that if I install this, the wifi won't even work. Even with the firmware image it has issues... |
| 09:12.05 | RoyK | do you have an ethernet port on this? |
| 09:12.18 | RoyK | if so - use wired networking for the install and try to fix wifi later |
| 09:13.12 | wxb | RoyK, There is a ethernet port, but I have no access to ethernet. |
| 09:13.40 | wxb | What kind of solution could exist though? If there is no driver, there is no solution, no? |
| 09:13.41 | ratrace | any electronics store nearby where you could buy one of them cheap wifi usb sticks? |
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| 09:14.09 | wxb | ratrace, this is for a friend, and they wouldn't be fine with that... |
| 09:14.29 | ratrace | wxb: well at least to attempt installation and see if you can fix the built-in wifi later |
| 09:14.39 | wxb | I'm trying to introduce him to linux, so that would be a bad image.... |
| 09:14.41 | ratrace | those things cost a few bucks, no loss even if you can't do anything with it |
| 09:15.37 | wxb | ratrace, RoyK But what would this solution entail? Why is the firmware iso not working? What else can one actually do? |
| 09:15.46 | ratrace | wxb: yea there's a reason "the year of the linux desktop" never happen and never will happen |
| 09:16.03 | wxb | for shit like this lol |
| 09:16.29 | ratrace | wxb: I'm not sure how much freedom you've got in that installer, but maybe you can Alt-Fx (say, F2) to another TTY and try some debugging via dmesg, cryptsetup |
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| 09:17.31 | wrksx | Mornin guys |
| 09:17.32 | Kyros | Do you know the exact chipset of the wifi adapter uses? |
| 09:17.51 | ratrace | dmesg would contain hints |
| 09:17.55 | wxb | Kyros, No, how could I find that out? |
| 09:18.03 | wrksx | I'm tryin to move a user's home but I cannot because a proces uses the user. |
| 09:18.04 | wxb | with dmesg, okay. |
| 09:18.17 | wrksx | usermod: user <username> is currently used by process 29945 |
| 09:18.32 | Kyros | If you can figure out the chipset you might be able to download the needed firmware and install it offline |
| 09:18.33 | wrksx | that process is /lib/systemd/systemd --user |
| 09:19.00 | ratrace | wrksx: is that the user you're currently logged in as? |
| 09:19.02 | wxb | Kyros, Good point. But why is said firmware not in the firmware iso... |
| 09:19.25 | wrksx | ratrace: no it's not, but I've been using it |
| 09:19.32 | wrksx | I logged out |
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| 09:19.52 | Kyros | I dont know exactly. Is all of the stuff from non-free and contrib on that iso? |
| 09:20.35 | ratrace | wrksx: well, I'm not sure what's going on then, if the user is not logged in AS, anywhere. you can always reboot into console mode, log in as root, and reconfigure the system in peace :) |
| 09:20.52 | wxb | nope, not access to tty in the installer |
| 09:21.01 | wrksx | ratrace: is there a way to check for logged in users? |
| 09:21.04 | ratrace | I'm assuming your login/display manager is keeping up a session alive somehow |
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| 09:21.29 | ratrace | wrksx: you can run `who` from a terminal or alternative TTY |
| 09:21.30 | wrksx | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:21.30 | wrksx | 29945 29946 29945 29945 ? -1 S 108 0:00 \_ (sd-pam) |
| 09:22.09 | wrksx | The user is not logged in |
| 09:22.38 | Kyros | You know it's possible that the iso has the firmware but you need to actually install it. |
| 09:23.33 | wrksx | ratrace: actually that's a server, I wouldn't be happy to reboot it |
| 09:23.47 | ratrace | wrksx: I'd reboot and login as root, never touching that user login, I'm guessing maybe a previous user session is keeping something attached to that |
| 09:24.24 | wrksx | The blocking process is 29945 can I check what it's doin? |
| 09:24.55 | wxb | Kyros, Interesting. Good point. |
| 09:25.18 | wxb | Kyros, That would seem kinda weird though. |
| 09:25.54 | wxb | RoyK, Is that wiki your site. Cool! |
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| 09:26.47 | ratrace | wrksx: lsof -p 29945 will show you open file handles for the process |
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| 09:27.36 | wrksx | ratrace: I made an sshfs that weirdly failed yesterday, maybe that's from that |
| 09:28.06 | wrksx | ratrace: thanks, lsof offers no more clues |
| 09:28.09 | ratrace | wrksx: though that's sd-pam, the systemd-pam integration thingy, from what I read around it's possible it'll remain active even after the user logout |
| 09:28.29 | wrksx | Oh really, that' unconvenient |
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| 09:29.21 | Ede|Popede | wrksx: got 2 of them, htop says "/lib/systemd/systemd (deleted)" -- should be because of update with no reboot (or restart) happening since |
| 09:29.29 | ratrace | wrksx: maybe you can kill it |
| 09:29.44 | wxb | pkill!! |
| 09:30.07 | ratrace | no, I'd use regular kill with -p and snipe that pid only |
| 09:30.26 | Ede|Popede | or have som fun with psdoom ;) |
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| 09:31.43 | Ede|Popede | btw, i found both ibus and systemd --user keeping processes running for me after logout (which i usually don't do) |
| 09:31.54 | wrksx | ratrace: I finally found it, had *another* sshfs mount lying around somewhere... Stupid me. |
| 09:32.03 | ratrace | there you go. |
| 09:32.04 | wrksx | Those things are hard to track |
| 09:32.21 | ratrace | wrksx: yeah, I forgot to mention to try lsof with -u |
| 09:33.47 | wrksx | ratrace: I tried the man, but I didn't really get what -u doas... |
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| 09:35.05 | ratrace | wrksx: shows open file handles that belong to given UID |
| 09:35.43 | wrksx | ratrace: Oh right, as oposed to PID, that's cool to know thanks. |
| 09:38.17 | RoyK | wxb: perhaps swearing in church now, but sometimes Ubuntu comes with newer driver versions than those in Debian. I generally prefer Debian, but on some laptops etc, I still stick to Ubuntu, since it's more focused on the "new and shiny" as opposed to "shiny enough and stable" approach of Debian |
| 09:39.02 | wxb | RoyK, Cool. Thanks for the pragmatic advice! |
| 09:39.21 | ratrace | it's not just that, Ubuntu often does kernel patches and drivers that are not available elsewhere, not even in the latest and greatest, still hot from the oven, just released Debian. |
| 09:39.44 | ratrace | that's also a double edged sword, wrt the said stability. |
| 09:40.30 | wxb | ratrace, Hmmmm. |
| 09:41.14 | ratrace | wxb: might be worth a try with their ISO. I'd recommend LTS at any rate even if it's almost 2 years old now |
| 09:42.36 | wxb | ratrace, I'm actually in the process of testing with Puppy linux just to see if it is a Debian issue. |
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| 09:43.35 | strk | how do I pass Dpkg::Progress=0 to an apt-get install call ? |
| 09:45.38 | ratrace | strk: with -o Dpkg::Progress=0 methinks |
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| 09:48.35 | wxb | ... deeper down the rabbit hole.... |
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| 09:50.18 | wxb | It's rassuring to know that installing Debian is never a smooth process. |
| 09:51.28 | ratrace | used to be |
| 09:51.41 | wxb | what changed? |
| 09:51.58 | ratrace | software in general got bloatier and buggier and of lower quality |
| 09:52.32 | Habbie | i've always felt that d-i was just the price of admission, a huge hurdle to take, to get to a very nice system to run |
| 09:52.39 | Habbie | i also feel it's gotten better over the years |
| 09:52.56 | ratrace | was quite surprised to see that after years of reliable booting Debian, Stretch failed to boot after installation due to nouveau having issues with my (rather old at that point) nvidia |
| 09:53.08 | Habbie | except when there's hardware involved, yes |
| 09:53.17 | wxb | Habbie, I get that feeling. Once it's installed, it's great, but getting there is absolute 'no I have nothing else to do in life' time-hole hell. |
| 09:53.25 | ratrace | and I mean hard boot blocker, not just a hickup. required rebooting to console and installing the proprietary driver |
| 09:53.41 | annadane | people should also stop supporting nvidia |
| 09:54.04 | ratrace | annadane: true and I'm aiming at full upgrade to AMD from intelvidia. |
| 09:54.27 | ratrace | but ironically... for years, nvidia meant stable GPU on Linux, at least with the proprietary driver and what sorry state AMD was before they went full FOSS |
| 09:54.31 | annadane | same i just don't know if what i end up getting is too new for buster |
| 09:54.56 | ratrace | back in 2006, when I weened myself off from windows, a nvidia based laptop with atheros wifi was pretty much the only thing that would work |
| 09:55.04 | annadane | yeah, well, that's typically the case - company x is initially the best thing to use, then they get greedy and subvert their original principles and voila, you have vendor lockin |
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| 09:56.35 | wrksx | I'm tryin to follow your conversation here, but i don't get the issue really. Is it that vendors don't provide drivers at all, that drivers are closed source, or something else? |
| 09:56.39 | ratrace | annadane: well I can safely say that so far I never had issues with the proprietary nvidia driver, exclusing the "does not work with wayland compositors" mega-issue, and ONE time when gnome upgraded on ubuntu and hit a bug with the proprietary driver, years ago |
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| 09:57.13 | ratrace | wrksx: all of the above |
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| 09:58.29 | strk | can Dpkg options be set with an env variable instead of commandline options ? |
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| 09:58.43 | strk | for Dpkg::Progress (I"d have to pass it around to a few commands otherwise) |
| 09:59.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1522] by debhelper |
| 09:59.02 | ratrace | strk: they can be set via /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ files |
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| 09:59.12 | strk | I'd rather not write to disk |
| 09:59.21 | strk | and change other users setups |
| 09:59.28 | ratrace | then I have no idea |
| 09:59.57 | annadane | wrksx, from my limited knowledge the issue isn't just that it's closed source but that nvidia firmware signs their card cryptographically so it's even harder for nouveau to get access... or something |
| 10:00.34 | wxb | I should choose ext4 for the new partition for Debian? |
| 10:00.42 | annadane | my first ever linux experience was using KDE with nouveau and having it constantly freeze... it's fun to think you're the one to blame rather than a graphics company being hostile to open source |
| 10:01.01 | ratrace | strk: alias it or script a custom apt call for yourself |
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| 10:01.25 | ratrace | wxb: it's a good default unless you know you want or need another fs |
| 10:01.30 | wrksx | Okay so sometimes no drivers, when you have a driver it's closed src and on top of that it's as locked as possible with the hardware. |
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| 10:01.50 | ratrace | wrksx: also many drivers are fossy and quite reliable |
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| 10:02.38 | wrksx | ratrace: are you talking about drivers written by the community? |
| 10:02.39 | ratrace | intel, atheros, amd, and in my experience realtek always worked fine. there's firmware for realtek tho |
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| 10:02.59 | ratrace | wrksx: not just community. intel and amd for example are fully open sourcing their drivers |
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| 10:03.26 | wrksx | ratrace: wow that's cool... What about AMD, you mentionned they were going foss? |
| 10:03.35 | wrksx | sorry scratch that |
| 10:03.35 | wrksx | =) |
| 10:03.43 | ratrace | wrksx: the amdgpu driver is theirs, they opened it and it got mainlined |
| 10:04.07 | wrksx | mainlined? sorry I don't now what that means |
| 10:04.11 | if_e1se_ | which config could change `apt install` default confirm prompt from `[Y/n]` to `[y/N]` ? |
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| 10:04.33 | ratrace | wrksx: accepted into the main kernel tree, as opposed to being an "out of tree" module that you then have to rebuild on each kernel update separately |
| 10:05.21 | wrksx | ratrace: so you're sain AMD gpu drivers are embed into the linux kernel, is that right? |
| 10:05.40 | ratrace | if_e1se_: --assume-no ? |
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| 10:05.46 | ratrace | if_e1se_: oh no, wait, that's not what you asked |
| 10:05.53 | ratrace | wrksx: yes |
| 10:06.17 | ratrace | wrksx: part of the main source tree, so always up to date with kernel ABI changes |
| 10:06.23 | if_e1se_ | ratrace: `--assume-no` would exit without any confirm |
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| 10:06.33 | ratrace | primary problem with out of tree modules is ABI compatibility. |
| 10:06.37 | ratrace | if_e1se_: yes, my bad, sorry |
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| 10:07.26 | wrksx | ratrace: That's freakin cool |
| 10:08.05 | ratrace | wrksx: one of two main reasons why I'm switching to full AMD hardware. the other is spectre/meltdown and intel's douche-y behavior around it |
| 10:08.23 | annadane | yep, AMD deserves our dollars |
| 10:08.33 | annadane | though i've had discussions with intel apologists |
| 10:09.01 | wrksx | I just went back to AMD after 10 years off, new build from last month. Awesome |
| 10:09.28 | wxb | annadane, What about with intel apologisers? |
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| 10:11.28 | ratrace | wrksx: it'll be 5 years for me. :) I switched away from Phenom to i5 MONTHS before ryzen was announced. If I only knew they were gonna raise from the ashes like that, I'd never do it. |
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| 10:11.59 | annadane | wxb i can't really be more specific |
| 10:12.12 | annadane | it was just like, oh no intel is good because of this amd is bad because of tha |
| 10:12.12 | annadane | t |
| 10:12.26 | wrksx | ratrace: no luck |
| 10:12.29 | wxb | I see. |
| 10:12.39 | wxb | wrksx, Me neither. Today is cursed. |
| 10:12.57 | wrksx | wxb: you neither what? |
| 10:13.05 | ratrace | wrksx: maybe it's luck in disguise. first edition ryzens had some peculiar bugs. |
| 10:13.11 | wxb | wrksx, luck |
| 10:13.38 | wrksx | ratrace: haha indeed, I didn't switched at the first gen either |
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| 10:13.58 | wrksx | wxb: you mean you bought a brand new nvidia gpu? |
| 10:14.08 | annadane | more than anything else i'm pretty sure my nvidia card stops being supported in 'mainline' and becomes 'legacy' when buster switches to bullseye so... great time to get off nvidia |
| 10:14.19 | ratrace | wrksx: would've bitten me hard, as at that time I was fully a gentooligan and the bug affected gentoo systems (or any cpu heavy workload, like compiling is) |
| 10:14.52 | wrksx | gentooligan lol |
| 10:14.56 | ratrace | :) |
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| 10:15.32 | annadane | time to start my AMD research, i can probably just buy a decently old ryzen now so it's guaranteed supported in bullseye |
| 10:15.33 | wxb | wrksx, Nope. Different problem. Same absence of luck. lol |
| 10:16.21 | ratrace | annadane: I'm waiting for ryzen2 bugs to surface, if any, get fixed, and then it's upgrade time for me! :) |
| 10:17.34 | annadane | which unrelatedly, speaking of companies doing stupid things, the recommendation for linux laptop users has typically been thinkpads, right? thinkpads are owned by lenovo... who were responsible for the superfish thing |
| 10:17.46 | annadane | so um... yeah, not supporting that company with my money, either |
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| 10:18.19 | annadane | s/owned by/made by |
| 10:18.32 | ratrace | annadane: precisely. though methinks thinkpad got hyped when it was just IBM, and the rest is just inertia. I never owned a thinkpad and never had an issue with any laptop I had. |
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| 10:18.55 | ratrace | I mean back then it was really one of the rare JustWorks(tm) platforms, but nowadays it's not |
| 10:19.08 | annadane | linux you mean? |
| 10:19.13 | Kats99 | So I installed Nvidia drivers and it didn't work out...the X server doesn't start so I installed it but when I purge Nvidia it shows a lot of files related to Nvidia saying package Nvidia 390 not installed so not removed. What should I do to remove them? |
| 10:19.17 | ratrace | annadane: yes of course :) |
| 10:19.28 | annadane | great timing, kats :P |
| 10:19.45 | Kats99 | Oh u have the same problem |
| 10:19.53 | annadane | no, we were just cursing out nvidia generally |
| 10:19.58 | Kats99 | Pls help me. I don't want to reinstall Debian |
| 10:20.02 | ratrace | annadane: I've been "Linux only" since 2006, with a brief exception of some short dual booting with win for steam games, but that ended quickly. |
| 10:20.29 | Kats99 | The packages aren't installed but they exist somewhere and I want to remove them |
| 10:20.42 | ratrace | Kats99: "installed nvidia drivers" how? |
| 10:20.49 | towo^work | Kats99, dpkg -l | grep nvidia |
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| 10:21.16 | towo^work | Kats99, and if you have used the installer from the nvidia website, have fun |
| 10:21.29 | Kats99 | I didn't install from the website |
| 10:21.56 | Kats99 | I installed Nvidia legacy 390xx driver from the repo |
| 10:21.58 | Kats99 | Non free |
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| 10:22.15 | wxb | [over three hours in and still no end if sight... gotta love it...] |
| 10:22.24 | ratrace | Kats99: please show the output of that dpkg command towo^work suggested |
| 10:22.28 | ratrace | wrksx: end of what? |
| 10:22.33 | Kats99 | No output |
| 10:22.35 | wrksx | ratrace: I wonder |
| 10:22.46 | wrksx | =) wxb |
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| 10:22.54 | towo^work | Kats99, and where xou gat the message about nvidia? |
| 10:23.03 | ratrace | wrksx: lol :) |
| 10:23.06 | ratrace | wxb: end of what? |
| 10:23.14 | wxb | oh the whole dual-boot thing. |
| 10:23.16 | Kats99 | When I type apt-get purge Nvidia* |
| 10:23.22 | wxb | It all seemed so simple yesterday. |
| 10:23.25 | towo^work | Kats99, and you wonder? |
| 10:23.40 | towo^work | Kats99, you can't purge packages, which are not installed |
| 10:23.40 | Kats99 | What about it? |
| 10:23.41 | wxb | Right now I'm still at partitioning the SSD. |
| 10:23.51 | Kats99 | I even tried remove |
| 10:23.57 | ratrace | Kats99: so wait, what nvidia files are still around? |
| 10:24.01 | wxb | And have little hope for a working wifi. Alas. The price is great to leave windows. |
| 10:24.02 | Kats99 | Yes |
| 10:24.09 | Kats99 | Wait |
| 10:24.22 | wrksx | wxb: you're on a laptop I guess |
| 10:24.39 | Kats99 | There are so many of them but they all are like nvidia-legacy-390xx |
| 10:24.54 | ratrace | wxb: I'd suggest trying the Ubuntu live ISO, no need to install anything. if that works, I'd then hunt down the driver used in ubuntu and check if it's a SAUCE thing (kerlen patches done in Ubuntu exclusively, not yet upstreamed), or if it's a regular driver available in Debian somehow |
| 10:25.19 | wrksx | New screen just arrived, time for some pleasant (I hope!) unboxing |
| 10:25.28 | ratrace | Kats99: wait... what are you talking about? if dpkg -l | grep nvidia shows no output, you don't have any packages installed |
| 10:25.50 | Kats99 | But why does it still show package not installed so not removed |
| 10:26.16 | ratrace | Kats99: what do you mean still.... you said you purged it, so yeah, it's now gone? |
| 10:26.22 | Kats99 | That means it still hasn't opened those packages. They still occupy space |
| 10:26.24 | wrksx | Mint seems to work quite well with recent hardware, I've been told |
| 10:26.39 | wxb | This machine is a few years old I think. |
| 10:26.50 | ratrace | Kats99: oh.... when you do glob for apt like nvidia* it actually does a pattern match against all names in the db, and naturally will tell you that because it found packages that match the pattern but aren't installed |
| 10:27.10 | wrksx | seeu guys later |
| 10:27.11 | ratrace | Kats99: in reality, you should very rarely use * glob for apt |
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| 10:27.29 | Kats99 | Oh... I see...that's what it is |
| 10:27.55 | Kats99 | Could you give me another package I could test this |
| 10:28.03 | Kats99 | With the glob |
| 10:28.16 | Kats99 | So that it shows package not installed so not removed |
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| 10:28.18 | ratrace | Kats99: test what exactly? |
| 10:28.34 | Kats99 | To see it's not related to Nvidia only |
| 10:29.16 | Kats99 | For example apt get purge abc* where I get the output as package abc not installed so not removed |
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| 10:29.25 | ratrace | Kats99: yes I just explained to you why it does that |
| 10:29.49 | Kats99 | Yea I understood..but do u happen to know other packages like that? |
| 10:30.11 | Kats99 | Ok ok I got it |
| 10:30.12 | ratrace | Kats99: I'm sorry you're NOT making any sense at all |
| 10:30.19 | Kats99 | I tested libre* |
| 10:30.36 | Kats99 | Yea..I know |
| 10:30.43 | ratrace | Kats99: so back to square one. dpkg -l | grep nvidia shows no output, meaning no nvidia proprietary driver is installed. You rebooted..... and now you have what symptoms? |
| 10:31.04 | Kats99 | None..the glob was the problem here |
| 10:31.13 | ratrace | with no nvidia proprietary installed, the kernel module nouveau (the FOSS nvidia driver) will be used automatically, unless you manually blacklisted it |
| 10:31.21 | ratrace | Kats99: no you mentioned somethign with xorg |
| 10:31.58 | ratrace | Kats99: unless it all works fine with nouveau and you just had an issue with understanding apt's behavior with globs? |
| 10:32.00 | Kats99 | Yea I typed nvidia-xconfig and restarted |
| 10:32.06 | Kats99 | But then it didn't start at all |
| 10:32.16 | Kats99 | Yes |
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| 10:32.50 | ratrace | Kats99: I'd remove any nvidia configs that xconfig did, and reboot into plain nouveau, no forced config mode, see if that works. In general, a xorg.conf is NOT needed these days unless you need to change a specific defautl behavior |
| 10:33.33 | Kats99 | Yep I did just as u mentioned..no xorg file...and using nouveau |
| 10:33.50 | ratrace | Kats99: and the symptoms now are.... ? |
| 10:34.00 | Kats99 | None as I said |
| 10:34.15 | Kats99 | But I wished to use Nvidia drivers but they aren't working |
| 10:34.32 | ratrace | Kats99: okay. what's the GPU model you have there? |
| 10:34.44 | Kats99 | Geforce 525 |
| 10:36.00 | Kats99 | It asks me to install 390xx drivers |
| 10:36.06 | ratrace | Kats99: which debian you have there? |
| 10:36.11 | Kats99 | 10 |
| 10:37.05 | Kats99 | But when I install the 390 drivers |
| 10:37.13 | Kats99 | It asks me to run xconfig |
| 10:37.17 | Kats99 | And reboot |
| 10:37.28 | Kats99 | But when I restart the screen stats blank |
| 10:37.36 | ratrace | Kats99: so you installed the "nvidia-graphics-drivers-legacy-390xx" package? |
| 10:37.58 | Kats99 | Correct |
| 10:39.12 | Kats99 | I installed and removed them for 5 times..waste of data |
| 10:39.57 | ratrace | Kats99: it'd be very helpful to provide the dmesg dump and /var/log/Xorg.0.log in a pastebin, for the boot session with those drivers, that doesn't start x |
| 10:39.58 | *** join/#debian Lope (~lope@105.246.69.164) |
| 10:41.31 | Kats99 | So I should install Nvidia drivers again? |
| 10:42.41 | Kats99 | I can give you the xorg log |
| 10:42.50 | Kats99 | Whaaaa |
| 10:43.01 | Kats99 | Too many disconnections |
| 10:43.06 | ratrace | Kats99: yes, please pastebin the xorg log for the session with the legacy driver that didn't work |
| 10:43.32 | strk | how to pass options directly to dpkg (Dpkg::Use-Pty=0) ? |
| 10:43.44 | Kats99 | Ok hold on |
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| 10:44.58 | strk | -o is not supported by dpkg |
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| 10:48.09 | Kats99 | ratrace: pastebin.com/J7GYxtq8 |
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| 10:49.57 | towo^work | Kats99, you have not told, that your system is a notebook with hybrid graphics, aka Optimus |
| 10:49.57 | Kats99 | So? |
| 10:50.06 | Kats99 | What??? |
| 10:50.22 | Kats99 | I didn't know about that.. |
| 10:50.44 | Kats99 | Back in Ubuntu.. I didn't install anything that had to do with optimus |
| 10:50.56 | towo^work | ubuntu is not debian |
| 10:51.16 | towo^work | lspci | egrep -i "3d|display|vga" is saying what? |
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| 10:52.35 | Kats99 | Intel corp 2 gen integrated graphics and Nvidia corp GF108 M Geforce GT 525m |
| 10:52.45 | towo^work | OED |
| 10:52.54 | towo^work | QED |
| 10:53.01 | Kats99 | ? |
| 10:53.13 | towo^work | qued erum demonstrantum |
| 10:53.26 | Kats99 | I don't speak Latin |
| 10:53.29 | annadane | be careful to avoid zebra crossings |
| 10:53.36 | towo^work | so it's absolute normal you get a black screen if you install nvidia-driver blob |
| 10:54.08 | Kats99 | Oh |
| 10:54.25 | Kats99 | So how can I install the driver now? |
| 10:54.35 | towo^work | Kats99, now you have 2 choices, leave it, as it is now or read the debian wiki about hybrid graphics |
| 10:54.51 | Kats99 | Is there an absolute necessity to install Nvidia? |
| 10:54.56 | towo^work | no |
| 10:55.11 | Kats99 | Because in Ubuntu it crashed a lot |
| 10:55.19 | Kats99 | I'm a bit scared that's all |
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| 10:55.22 | towo^work | since that ncidia chipset is not really a rocket |
| 10:55.22 | themill | s/erum/erat/ |
| 10:55.40 | annadane | quad erat demonstratum, i think |
| 10:56.05 | towo^work | Kats99, of your bios can decativate the dgpu at all, i would do that |
| 10:56.08 | themill | #debian, focusing on the important things |
| 10:56.21 | wasamasa | quod erat demonstrandum |
| 10:56.24 | Fox | "quod erat demonstrandum" is the right one |
| 10:56.27 | wasamasa | clearly none of you had latin in school |
| 10:56.31 | ratrace | Kats99: it's not necessary to install nvidia at all. You said nouveau was working fine, so just use that then. |
| 10:56.36 | annadane | we all fail. |
| 10:56.44 | towo^work | it does not use nouveau at all |
| 10:56.44 | themill | did which is why he corrected it. |
| 10:56.50 | Fox | I had, but in french we say CQFD, not QED :) |
| 10:56.52 | towo^work | it is using the intel chipset |
| 10:56.53 | ratrace | Or was that intel then, given it's optimus, it could've been intel --- what I mean, revert to having no nvidia driver installed :) |
| 10:57.18 | Kats99 | Idk if my bios would allow that |
| 10:57.28 | ratrace | towo^work: yes I see that now, back then they did not mention a peep about it being hybrid |
| 10:57.47 | ratrace | Kats99: allow what? you said it worked fine....... |
| 10:58.05 | themill | (also â¦dum not â¦tum) |
| 10:58.26 | ratrace | i'm gonna start charging for every minute lost to trying to REparse, multiple times, what suportees are trying to say |
| 10:58.42 | Kats99 | Yes. I said that to them tomowork that if my bios allowed me to deactivate the Nvidia gpu then I wud |
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| 10:59.25 | ratrace | Kats99: again... you said running with no nvidia drivre installer worked? Is that correct (4⬠so far owed) |
| 11:00.06 | Kats99 | Hey!! |
| 11:00.19 | Kats99 | Yes u r right |
| 11:01.19 | dka | I wanted to upgrade from Debian Stretch to Debian Buster, I did in order: sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get upgrade; sudo apt-get full-upgrade; sudo apt-get --purge autoremove; sudo sed -i 's/stretch/buster/g' /etc/apt/sources.list; sudo sed -i 's/stretch/buster/g' /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*; sudo apt update; sudo apt upgrade; I went to sleep and woke up, the sudo apt upgrade commande is stuck. I have Get:1064 http://debian.xtdv.net/debian |
| 11:01.19 | Kats99 | Btw what's the command to increase volume in pulse audio?? |
| 11:01.24 | dka | buster/main amd64 gnome-backgrounds all 3.30.0-1 [27.3 MB]; 76% [1064 gnome-backgrounds 11.9 MB/27.3 MB 44%] 5,018 B/s 16h 45min 50s |
| 11:01.29 | dka | How can I resume ? |
| 11:02.05 | ratrace | Kats99: okay, so the recommendation was leave it at that, or read this about hybrid graphics: https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers/Optimus |
| 11:02.14 | Kats99 | Yeah I'll leave it |
| 11:02.30 | ratrace | Kats99: in other words if you don't need/want to use the nvidia driver, intel should suffice. |
| 11:02.31 | Kats99 | It's just a headache to install the Optimus Prime thingy |
| 11:02.41 | Kats99 | Yep.. |
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| 11:02.51 | Kats99 | Just for coding and watching anime |
| 11:03.35 | ratrace | Kats99: pactl is the command line interface to PA |
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| 11:03.56 | ratrace | otherwise use any of the gui things, pavucontrol for example if you don't have a desktop with the audio control already present |
| 11:04.09 | Kats99 | I wanted to setup a keyboard shortcut |
| 11:04.19 | ratrace | pactl it is then |
| 11:04.57 | Kats99 | Ok |
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| 11:11.26 | dka | Can I reboot in the middle of `apt upgrade` ? |
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| 11:12.26 | Miles8of9 | Oo |
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| 11:12.33 | dka | Can I reboot in the middle of `sudo apt upgrade` ? I wanted to upgrade stretch to buster, I was expecting to finish during a sleep, but now I see the gnome-background download super extra slow , 2,150 B/s |
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| 11:12.44 | dka | the file size is 27.3MB and I have downloader 16.1 MB, I am stuck |
| 11:13.03 | dka | what happen if the internet disconnect ? |
| 11:13.24 | ratrace | dka: it's one of those things we alwyas say "Make sure you have good backups in case you need to reinstall the system" |
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| 11:13.53 | crivrc | Hi, anyone knows how to start openvpn using debian supplied systemd files? I try systemctl start openvpn but nothing happens, it just says Started OpenVPN service, but the daemon is not running and nothing is listening in the udp port defined in /etc/openvpn/server.conf |
| 11:14.09 | ratrace | dka: however, if the upgrade is still at that initial stage of downloading packages and not even ONE has installed, _maybe_ you can indeed cut it short with no ill effects, but I can't 100% guarantee that |
| 11:14.28 | ratrace | dka: I have, in the past, stopped apt upgrade tasks while they were still at the download phase, with no side effects |
| 11:14.43 | dka | How can I know if I am in the download phase ? |
| 11:14.53 | dka | oh |
| 11:14.54 | dka | Get : |
| 11:14.57 | dka | ok I just cut it |
| 11:15.01 | dka | ty |
| 11:15.15 | ratrace | dka: ctrl-c should suffice, no need to reboot |
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| 11:19.26 | nicknamee | hello, how would I go about rebooting a Debian10? all green OKs, reached target reboot and now it's repeating task systemd-shutdown blocked for more than 120 seconds |
| 11:20.19 | Lope | what is that simple command for quickly benchmarking the read speed of a hard drive/SSD? |
| 11:20.55 | Lope | I seem to recall it's hdparm something, but I don't see a relevant benchmark in the man page |
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| 11:21.26 | Lope | it was some program with a short name like 4~7 letters |
| 11:22.37 | crivrc | Lope: hdparm -t or hdparm -T |
| 11:24.13 | Lope | thanks, that must be it. |
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| 11:24.37 | crivrc | oh, I see openvpn.service unit has: ExecStart=/bin/true |
| 11:24.45 | crivrc | so it does nothing! |
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| 11:25.06 | crivrc | why? |
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| 11:25.50 | colo-work | openvpn has been converted to use template units, iirc |
| 11:25.53 | dka | How can I select the appropriate and fastest mirroir for apt ? |
| 11:26.14 | colo-work | crivrc, check systemctl status openvpn\* |
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| 11:27.29 | crivrc | yes colo-work, it says active (exited) but I see that I have a file /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/openvpn.service which aparently does nothing. |
| 11:28.00 | colo-work | crivrc, did you upgrade from an earlier Debian release to buster? |
| 11:28.33 | crivrc | yes, I looked into /lib/systemd/system-generators/openvpn-generator |
| 11:28.54 | crivrc | I modified /etc/default/openvpn |
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| 11:28.57 | colo-work | you'll need to convert/migrate your old configuration (with a single unit for openvpn-server, iirc) to the new style |
| 11:29.21 | crivrc | colo-work: Is there any documentation? I don't see anything about that in /usr/share/doc/openvpn |
| 11:29.26 | han-solo | isn't it `openvpn-client` ? |
| 11:29.36 | crivrc | no, I want to setup a server |
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| 11:29.59 | han-solo | service `openvpn` seems to be simply a systemd target |
| 11:30.18 | han-solo | there's `openvpn-server` too |
| 11:30.59 | ratrace | nicknamee: power cycle it, then enable persistent journal to see what might've gone wrong with previous boot session, though this late in it it's probably not gonna log anything |
| 11:31.56 | colo-work | crivrc, I don't really remember how I did the conversion for our server... but it was fairly straightforward |
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| 11:32.17 | colo-work | (the changelog would probably point into the right direction) |
| 11:32.47 | crivrc | I am not doing any conversion, I just starting from scratch, I copied an example configuration from /usr/share/doc/openvpn/examples and filled in the details |
| 11:33.54 | crivrc | I've setup up previous openvpn before, before systemd. |
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| 11:36.56 | nicknamee | ratrace: is this useful? https://pastebin.com/BMd4QAky |
| 11:38.50 | ratrace | nicknamee: nope, it's not. ideall you need to look up journalctl -b -n 100 for example, to see last 100 entries from previous boot session. nicknamee also, -p err will show syslog "error" severity entries, and if you really need to grep, always use -i |
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| 11:43.24 | crivrc | I tried /lib/systemd/system-generators/openvpn-generator /etc/systemd/system/ |
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| 11:43.55 | crivrc | now it starts up (it fails because of a config error, though) but it starts up when I type: systemctl start openvpn\@server.service |
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| 11:45.54 | dka | Hi |
| 11:46.00 | dka | how can I upgrade linux from 4.19 to linux 5 ? |
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| 11:46.24 | RoyK | dka: obviously, but do you need kernel v5? |
| 11:46.37 | dka | RoyK, https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Ubuntu/ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-7th-Gen-X1C7-mirophone-not-working/td-p/4484156 |
| 11:46.41 | crivrc | dka: In Debian? Is there a package of linux 5? If not you will need to compile it |
| 11:46.46 | dka | With Kernel 4, microphone does not work |
| 11:46.53 | dka | With Kernel 5, sound does not work |
| 11:46.54 | ratrace | ,v linux-image-amd64 |
| 11:46.55 | judd | Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u6; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u9; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u1~bpo9+1; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u1; buster-backports: 5.2+107~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.2+107; sid: 5.3.7-1 |
| 11:47.04 | ratrace | buster-backports haz iz |
| 11:47.06 | ratrace | *it |
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| 11:48.14 | nicknamee | so it seems that the machine was not rebooting because it still had the usb install plugged in. pretty BS reason! |
| 11:48.50 | RoyK | ratrace: it's 5.2, though, and unless the fix has been backported, it probabaly won't work |
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| 11:49.57 | wxb | nicknamee, Maybe the boot priority was usb? |
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| 11:51.31 | nicknamee | wxb: no, as it boots straight into debian WITH the usb plugged in and no boot prompts appear. it just won't reboot with it present |
| 11:51.52 | wxb | nicknamee, I see. Odd. |
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| 11:54.05 | ratrace | nicknamee: was that after the "Please remove the USB installation media and reboot" message? |
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| 11:54.54 | ratrace | nicknamee: it's worth figuring out what service or condition prevented it, and configure system or that service/condition, not to do that |
| 11:54.59 | dka | How can I select the appropriate and fastest mirroir for apt ? |
| 11:55.09 | annadane | use deb.debian.org |
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| 11:56.21 | nicknamee | ratrace: already passed that, finished setting up pihole and was testing some ssh commands |
| 11:57.03 | nicknamee | can always plug it back it and repro the issue |
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| 11:58.44 | dka | annadane, even for security updates ? |
| 11:58.59 | annadane | nah, use the security repo |
| 11:59.13 | annadane | though i'm not sure if people have used d.d.o for that or not |
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| 12:01.15 | annadane | RoyK, the debian backported kernel i believe is on 5.2 |
| 12:01.18 | annadane | ,kernels |
| 12:01.19 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.3.0-trunk-686-pae (5.3.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.3.0-1-686-pae (5.3.7-1); bullseye: 5.2.0-3-686 (5.2.17-1); buster-backports: 5.2.0-0.bpo.3-686-pae (5.2.17-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-6-686 (4.19.67-2+deb10u1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.19.67-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-11-686-pae (4.9.189-3+deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 12:01.20 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.11-686-pae (4.9.189-3+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
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| 12:02.49 | dka | I am upgrading debian and I have a confirm dialog: Configuring minissdpd |
| 12:02.56 | dka | should I start the MiniSSDP daemon automatically Y/n? |
| 12:03.47 | annadane | uh... are you doing a full upgrade to a new release or something? i thought you were just updating the kernel |
| 12:03.57 | dka | I am first upgrade Debian from Stretch To Buster |
| 12:04.00 | annadane | anyway, unless you have a reason not to, you should probably just say yes |
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| 12:04.09 | nicknamee | ratrace: message is usb 2-2: device descriptor read/64, error -110 |
| 12:04.21 | dka | Should I use all interface ? |
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| 12:04.36 | annadane | as for the kernel, update to buster first and then maybe afterwards you can use the kernel from backports |
| 12:04.42 | dka | I have 5 interface for docker container, 1 for docker0, one for ethernet, 2 for vmware |
| 12:04.52 | annadane | that i don't know, someone else will have to answer |
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| 12:05.02 | dka | minissdpd needs to specify the interface for uPnP queries |
| 12:05.03 | nicknamee | internet says error is related to usb power exceeded, which does not make much sense to me, as this error persisted through several power cycles |
| 12:05.28 | debianfan2439 | first it did begin that i did install on my computer this iso image "debian-10.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso" from a website |
| 12:05.45 | debianfan2439 | hello (i do tell you my prodecure how i did it, so maybe it helps to find the problem) |
| 12:06.30 | debianfan2439 | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:07.01 | annadane | ...uh. |
| 12:07.04 | *** join/#debian nirakara (~nurks@105.186.172.213) |
| 12:07.11 | debianfan2439 | and if it is true then my computer is maybe not longer secure, or im i wrong? because i did already install the image on my computer system and, please correct me if i am wrong, the bios seems changed since then... i mean since i did install it on the computer |
| 12:07.25 | annadane | well, the 'a website', i hope, was from debian's website |
| 12:07.31 | annadane | otherwise, who knows |
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| 12:07.55 | debianfan2439 | no it was not the debian.org website it was a strange name i dont remember |
| 12:08.08 | debianfan2439 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 12:08.24 | debianfan2439 | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:08.36 | annadane | ...download debian from the actual debian website, and wipe your computer and install that |
| 12:08.37 | debianfan2439 | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:09.14 | debianfan2439 | annadane but this is also a problem because since i did install the debian on my computer my bios did change |
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| 12:09.42 | debianfan2439 | i can not longer do something on my bios it is like something is encrypted |
| 12:10.05 | debianfan2439 | i can not change settings or choose the boot medium |
| 12:10.19 | annadane | yeah, that's a good point. maybe someone else has an idea |
| 12:11.05 | debianfan2439 | after i did install the anti viruses and black trojan horses software, my debian linux system did restart automatically. i did already note something is wrong, while i was looking on my grub menu. because there was no longer such menu. only the blue colour and black environment, but with no text or something. only the familiar blue colour and black |
| 12:11.05 | debianfan2439 | environment which we get if we dont install a desktop environment on the debian install |
| 12:11.35 | debianfan2439 | and after i did come to my tty console, i was not able to login. because while i did type my password, after 3 seconds or less the tty session did restart and so im not able to type my password, because 3 seconds are not enough ( i have a long password) |
| 12:11.49 | wxb | This is going back a few hours, but Xubuntu Live does not detect the wifi card either. Bad news for this laptop |
| 12:11.51 | debianfan2439 | annadane and now i am helpless and dont know what to do |
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| 12:12.27 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: do you per chance have chat logs or browser history at hand? |
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| 12:12.51 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: assuming you didn't wipe the computer yet |
| 12:13.27 | Ede|Popede | if your system is already compromised it doesn't make much sense to continue with snake oil. if you think you have to, it would be the first step, not the last. |
| 12:13.30 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa no i have no chat logs or something because i can not login in my system like i said |
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| 12:13.48 | debianfan2439 | nor i can wipe my computer because i can not choose the boot medium |
| 12:13.49 | wasamasa | well, you could take the hdd and inspect it from another computer |
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| 12:15.07 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa but i have only one computer |
| 12:15.33 | wasamasa | so you use a usb stick with a live distro |
| 12:15.50 | wasamasa | like knoppix or whatever you prefer |
| 12:15.52 | debianfan2439 | no because i can not change the boot medium in my bios longer |
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| 12:16.10 | wasamasa | oh well, I guess I'll never get my hand on elusive linux malware |
| 12:16.26 | nicknamee | unplug the HDD, it should pick the next boot source |
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| 12:17.46 | Ede|Popede | are all HDDs checked nowadays for boot? if not, plugging it into another slot may prevent it being selected |
| 12:18.19 | debianfan2439 | but i dont know if it will work on my old laptop and nor i know how i should do it |
| 12:18.30 | Ede|Popede | !tias |
| 12:18.31 | dpkg | TIAS is "Try It And See". |
| 12:18.31 | wawowe | Gets Ede|Popede some tias |
| 12:18.32 | wasamasa | I keep running into stories like these and the victims tend to be absolutely clueless |
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| 12:19.38 | Ede|Popede | lack on common sense. you don't give your appartment key and your bank card to that guy in the bus. |
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| 12:20.08 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: what channel was this anyway? |
| 12:20.10 | debianfan2439 | Ede|Popede he said the software is against the well knowed dangerous black trojan horses |
| 12:20.16 | Ede|Popede | but when it comes to software lots of people either don't care or don't even waste one second to potential problems |
| 12:20.23 | debianfan2439 | i think everybody can understand why i didnt think much and install it |
| 12:20.28 | Ede|Popede | "the software", what is it exactly? |
| 12:20.34 | Ede|Popede | its name? |
| 12:20.50 | Ede|Popede | do you have it from a safe source? |
| 12:21.34 | Ede|Popede | "safe source" doesn't include "this website" or "that guy in some chat/forum", see the bus example above |
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| 12:22.20 | dka_ | j ##linux |
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| 12:22.33 | Ede|Popede | i'm even sceptical with things like mozilla.org vs. download.mozilla.net - 2 different TLDs, definitely not the same domain. |
| 12:22.37 | debianfan2439 | he did give me a download link but i dont remember the websites name but i remember the software name it was called "XAntiMalwarePremium" |
| 12:22.39 | dka_ | Hi, I got my computer UI frozen during stretch to buster upgrade |
| 12:22.42 | dka_ | what can I do ? |
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| 12:22.53 | dka_ | It was Updating database of manyak oages |
| 12:23.17 | debianfan2439 | Ede|Popede and then he said i should install it with root privileges so that i can experience the full effect of the software |
| 12:23.32 | dka_ | it got unfrozen but all the fonts onn my scree nchanged |
| 12:23.37 | nicknamee | flashing the bios from HDD doesn't seem so straightforward under linux, and you also need the mobo model, this looks very targeted and it's someone you know; or it's simply user error |
| 12:24.04 | Ede|Popede | uh, cloudbased it seems. https://malwaretips.com/threads/zemana-antimalware-premium-free-license.94287/ |
| 12:24.26 | Ede|Popede | and the avatar of the TO really gives me an absolute safe feeling |
| 12:25.24 | wasamasa | lol |
| 12:25.29 | Ede|Popede | seems to be kaspersky, cracked versions in the wild. and who knows if it really is what it says. |
| 12:25.36 | wxb | Is this in firmware iso? broadcom-sta-dkms |
| 12:25.42 | wasamasa | I like the russian screenshots |
| 12:25.54 | debianfan2439 | no this was not the same software he did send me, on my software it did have an logo with a black horse and bow and arrow in front of the black horse |
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| 12:27.40 | Ede|Popede | you don't know the source, you don't know the software, it could be whatever. |
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| 12:28.52 | Ede|Popede | there's enough software around claiming to clean up your (surprise!: windows) system and then installs a backdoor or drags in ads or what not |
| 12:29.06 | dka | I was in the middle of an upgrade but now I have 96% used of my harddrive |
| 12:29.14 | wxb | How can I find out if X package is in a Debian iso? |
| 12:29.18 | dka | E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/. |
| 12:29.22 | dka | How can I do |
| 12:29.30 | dka | I dont know what I can remove to perform the upgrade |
| 12:29.55 | Ede|Popede | dka: you could remove some of the (older) packages. java, office and firefox may be good candidates (they're huge) |
| 12:30.19 | Ede|Popede | or check if you have something else you could safely remove from there, like temporary files. |
| 12:30.40 | dka | where are tmp files? |
| 12:30.55 | Ede|Popede | btw, since apt* runs with root's access rights, you should have some reserved space (check $size - ( $used + $free )) |
| 12:31.04 | Ede|Popede | /tmp usually |
| 12:31.39 | Ede|Popede | but then, /var is also for non-static content, including caches (as the one for packages) |
| 12:32.22 | dka | I have clean /tmp but still not enough space, I can't remove Firefox-esr because I hav e adependency with cinnamon, I dont have office |
| 12:32.35 | dka | java is installed in /opt a different harddrrive |
| 12:32.37 | dka | anything else? |
| 12:32.39 | Ede|Popede | and it also depends on your partitioning. it /var is on the same partition as /root and you have some big files there for some reasons... or maybe even /home. some users seem to put it also into / |
| 12:32.48 | Ede|Popede | ah right, java. i forgot that one |
| 12:32.51 | dka | My partition are / , /srv, /opt, /home |
| 12:32.57 | dka | I have 2.1GB avaialble on / |
| 12:33.51 | Ede|Popede | so /var is also on / ? what does `df /var/cache/apt/archives` say? |
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| 12:34.19 | dka | Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 12:34.23 | dka | .../dev/md0 45842276 40276172 3207680 93% / |
| 12:35.06 | Ede|Popede | 3G, that should be more than enough |
| 12:35.07 | jelly | dka: du -x / | sort -n | tail -n30 ... and wait |
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| 12:36.06 | wxb | How can I find out if X package is in a Debian iso? |
| 12:36.28 | themill | !cd contents |
| 12:36.28 | dpkg | To find out which CD or DVD image contains a particular package or source file, use the search engine at http://cdimage-search.debian.org/ . To see what a specific image contains, examine the package lists within the list-{cd,dvd} subdirectories for the relevant architecture at http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/ (e.g. http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/list-cd/). |
| 12:36.28 | wawowe | Gets themill some cd contents |
| 12:36.51 | jelly | !cd turingtest |
| 12:36.51 | wawowe | Gets jelly some cd turingtest |
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| 12:39.37 | wxb | themill, Thanks. This the broadcom-sta-dkms package which is non free. I want to see if it is in the firmware iso... |
| 12:41.41 | wxb | So the search tool doesn't work... |
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| 12:45.36 | themill | wxb: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/list-cd/ |
| 12:46.31 | wxb | themill, Thanks. So broadcom-sta-dkms is not there... why would a wifi driver not be in the firmware iso?? |
| 12:46.35 | wxb | Is it too rare? |
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| 12:47.35 | themill | There's no dkms stuff there at all; it might be that dkms isn't going to work in the installer environment; I'm guessing though |
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| 12:51.12 | debianfan2439 | why is this firmware not also avaiable on stretch? https://packages.debian.org/buster/firmware-ath9k-htc |
| 12:51.21 | wxb | themill, Would it work via dpkg and the .deb file? https://packages.debian.org/buster/broadcom-sta-dkms |
| 12:51.29 | greycat | because stretch is oldstable, and was frozen like 5 years ago? |
| 12:51.31 | debianfan2439 | and if i would use it in stretch, how instabile would the system then become |
| 12:51.33 | greycat | !stretch freeze |
| 12:51.34 | dpkg | Stretch is frozen as of 2017-02-05; see https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/02/msg00001.html or <freeze>, <slushy>. |
| 12:51.41 | greycat | oh, only 2 years? that seems wrong |
| 12:52.21 | greycat | ,v firmware-ath9k-htc |
| 12:52.22 | judd | Package: firmware-ath9k-htc on amd64 -- bullseye: 1.4.0-97-g75b3e59+dfsg-3; buster: 1.4.0-97-g75b3e59+dfsg-3; sid: 1.4.0-97-g75b3e59+dfsg-3 |
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| 12:52.42 | greycat | looks like it never existed until buster |
| 12:52.46 | karlpinc | Maybe it has had a name change? |
| 12:53.14 | debianfan2439 | the problem is that my old old other laptop have this debian stretch and i need this firmware for internet connection but i dont want to install the non-free firmware atheros |
| 12:54.00 | debianfan2439 | in a security point of view is it better to install the nonfree firmware atheros or the opensource firmware |
| 12:54.12 | debianfan2439 | but instabile) |
| 12:54.31 | debianfan2439 | but how instabile would it be |
| 12:54.35 | greycat | Nobody knows. |
| 12:54.48 | greycat | It's firmware. It doesn't run on your computer. It runs inside your network interface. |
| 12:55.10 | greycat | It might make your network interface send secret messages to Ukraine. Or it might be totally fine. |
| 12:55.24 | debianfan2439 | you mean the nonfree firmware yes? |
| 12:55.29 | greycat | !firmware |
| 12:55.30 | dpkg | Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. http://wiki.debian.org/Firmware |
| 12:56.00 | debianfan2439 | did you mean the not open firmware i hope or do you mean the open firmware ... the thing with the messages to ukraine |
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| 12:56.34 | debianfan2439 | i can not read the program code from the open firmware because i dont understand |
| 12:56.40 | debianfan2439 | did you read it? |
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| 12:57.21 | debianfan2439 | is on the code a email address or something like this what would turn the alarm clock or like that |
| 12:57.32 | nicknamee | open doesn't mean secure, read on obfuscation |
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| 12:58.15 | debianfan2439 | but everybody could read the code and of course some backdoors can not be detected by the most reader maybe but obviously things like a email adress in code would put the alarm clock on |
| 12:58.21 | debianfan2439 | or not |
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| 12:58.53 | wxb | So I'm trying to dual boot with Debian. It doesn't look possible to use the LUKs option during the install. Can I do that after? |
| 12:59.04 | wasamasa | email addresses are fairly normal in a source code header |
| 12:59.50 | debianfan2439 | i dont mean in the header i mean in the code |
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| 13:01.09 | lupulo | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:01.42 | wasamasa | I'm not sure what point you're trying to make |
| 13:02.04 | wasamasa | absence of evidence is not evidence of absence |
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| 13:02.11 | debianfan2439 | i mean if someone would write a keylogger code in the firmware code, so then somewhere he must send his datas |
| 13:02.15 | debianfan2439 | like to a email address |
| 13:02.22 | debianfan2439 | then it would be obviously or not ? |
| 13:02.23 | karlpinc | wxb: It is possible to do the LUKS durint the install, and not really possible after without erasing everything and restoring. |
| 13:02.25 | wxb | Basically, debianfan2439 Good point. |
| 13:02.29 | greycat | A network interface doesn't have access to your keyboard. |
| 13:02.47 | greycat | A firmware program running inside a network interface can only control the network interface. |
| 13:02.47 | wxb | karlpinc, Even with the 'manual choice' in the install process. |
| 13:02.49 | karlpinc | wxb: Unless you have 2 disks and are using only one -- which basically means the same thing. |
| 13:03.16 | wxb | karlpinc, I watched the link you sent me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP9yLn1dnQE |
| 13:03.24 | karlpinc | wxb: You make a partition, when you do you say it is a LUKS encrypted partition. Then the installer continues. |
| 13:03.27 | greycat | And I have absolutely no idea what I'm supposed to be looking for in this bat_algo.c code. |
| 13:03.27 | wxb | and they don't do LUKS... |
| 13:03.31 | karlpinc | wxb: I didn't send it. |
| 13:03.38 | wxb | karlpinc, Oh. Oops. |
| 13:03.38 | greycat | What part of it did you find to be noteworthy? |
| 13:03.47 | dka_ | I have upgraded to Buster and I cant move the mouse, I can right click |
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| 13:04.10 | debianfan2439 | greycat would it be possible if the firmware is compromised, that the attacker can access my other devices in the same network |
| 13:04.27 | greycat | You're a paranoid person. There is nothing I can say to you. |
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| 13:04.31 | karlpinc | wxb: When you have a LUKS encrypted partition you then partition that partition. (Or, even better, use it as a LVM physical volume.) |
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| 13:04.49 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: you mentioned having another laptop |
| 13:05.00 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: why not use that to figure out the issues with the first one? |
| 13:05.01 | wxb | karlpinc, Ah. Hmmmm. So this a different process than that link. |
| 13:05.06 | karlpinc | wxb: (I swear I recall there is a choice for LUKS + LVM.) |
| 13:05.11 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa i dont have a another lapttop it was a theoretical question |
| 13:05.28 | wxb | karlpinc, Could you take a look at the vid? |
| 13:05.33 | wasamasa | <debianfan2439> the problem is that my old old other laptop have this debian stretch and i need this firmware for internet connection but i dont want to install the non-free firmware atheros |
| 13:05.46 | greycat | why are you QUOTING a person I just ignored? :( |
| 13:05.47 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa it is not my laptop it is from the school |
| 13:06.00 | wxb | karlpinc, Relevant time is at 3:55 |
| 13:06.08 | wasamasa | greycat: whoops, my bad for assuming ops never ignore persons |
| 13:06.42 | debianfan2439 | so i should not use it for personal , but we dont have to tell |
| 13:06.59 | karlpinc | wxb: It always helps to read the screen. |
| 13:07.13 | nicknamee | debianfan2439: so you can't change boot options because of the password? |
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| 13:07.32 | karlpinc | wxb: "If you choose guided partitioning, you may have three options: to create partitions directly on the hard disk (classic method), or to create them using Logical Volume Management (LVM), or to create them using encrypted LVM[10]." https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.en.html#di-partition |
| 13:07.43 | debianfan2439 | nicknamee no not because of the password, there is no password i need to type, but if i try to choose a option on the boot menu then nothing happens |
| 13:07.56 | debianfan2439 | it is like my keyboard is not connected |
| 13:08.18 | thctlo | Hai, im attempting to crossbuild, armhf in and pbuilder i386 environment, but im keep hitting unmet dependencies in combination with python3. is there anything known of this? |
| 13:08.23 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: if the affected machine is from school, then you have bigger issues |
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| 13:08.26 | karlpinc | wxb: I never bothered to configure sound on my box, and video broke on the stretch upgrade and I didn't bother to fix it. Maybe buster will make it work again. |
| 13:08.54 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa not the affected laptop is from the school, this one whhich is compromised is my laptop the other old old one is from the school |
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| 13:09.19 | wasamasa | let's hope they teach you the skills to fix your laptop then :P |
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| 13:09.30 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay. I'll give this a whirl. Good luck to you too :) |
| 13:09.36 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa no they dont know what linux is i think they cannot help me |
| 13:09.43 | debianfan2439 | i thought that someone here can help me |
| 13:09.52 | wasamasa | given how unhelpful you are, nope |
| 13:10.16 | debianfan2439 | how can i be helpful so that you can help me |
| 13:10.23 | debianfan2439 | maybe i oversaw your message |
| 13:10.26 | karlpinc | wxb: Besides, videos suck for most instruction. You can't easily bookmark them and they tend to contain lots and lots of irrelevent fluff. (Like, you need _motion_ to tell people how to type into a box?) |
| 13:10.30 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: for example by following our suggestions, lol |
| 13:10.41 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa sorry which suggestion you mean ? |
| 13:10.41 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: there have been plenty |
| 13:10.42 | *** join/#debian daniel_gc (~daniel_gc@201-223-40-161.baf.movistar.cl) |
| 13:10.47 | wasamasa | read the backlog |
| 13:10.55 | wxb | karlpinc, Lol. |
| 13:11.08 | *** join/#debian dasher00 (~dasher00@host-2-100-207-3.as13285.net) |
| 13:11.21 | wxb | karlpinc, Good point. I tend to avoid them. Someone here (not you :) ) sent me that link yesterday. |
| 13:12.01 | *** join/#debian clemens3 (~clemens@mx.eniso-partners.com) |
| 13:12.03 | debianfan2439 | you mean the thing with reconnect the hdd ? i did already try it and nothing did happen. and the thing with looking the hdd from the other computer is not working because this old laptop from school doesnt allows it (hardware techincal point of view) |
| 13:12.36 | wasamasa | all of them really |
| 13:12.37 | *** join/#debian Hunterkll (~hunterkll@2001:470:8b06:400:215:5dff:fefb:c04) |
| 13:13.06 | wasamasa | I'm sure you'll find someone willing to lend you the necessary hardware to make progress on this |
| 13:13.07 | annadane | remember to like, comment, subscribe my debian instructional videos |
| 13:13.22 | *** join/#debian sixth (~sixth@unaffiliated/demo) |
| 13:14.10 | karlpinc | wxb: Anyhow, I'd do luks + lvm. LVM is "one more thing", but is really handy. You can create 2 logical volumes -- one for swap and one for everything else. And leave a little (lots of?) unused space in the physical volume so you have options when you come close to filling the filesystem or want a separate partition for something else. |
| 13:16.02 | humpled | i just leave a smallish spare partition |
| 13:16.15 | karlpinc | wxb: Or, since it's not your box, just allocate all the space and be done with it. |
| 13:16.54 | debianfan2439 | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:17.03 | debianfan2439 | are you still here then to help me ? |
| 13:17.13 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: the less intruding way would probably be to use an USB adapter to connect the HDD to the other laptop. if you don't have one, someone you know, may, maybe there's even a LUG around the place you live. or if you have some money left you could also buy one. |
| 13:17.31 | *** join/#debian platvoeten (~platvoete@178-85-122-247.dynamic.upc.nl) |
| 13:17.56 | os__ | hi, through it a little irrelevant,but anybody knows what do java developer using in debian as ide? |
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| 13:18.28 | *** join/#debian stoffepojken (stoffe@h-148-185.A328.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 13:18.38 | karlpinc | os__: I'm guessing eclipse. |
| 13:18.45 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: you're on your own then really |
| 13:18.57 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: nobody will look through the hdd for you over the internet |
| 13:19.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1553] by debhelper |
| 13:19.13 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa what do you mean ? you did suggest that i should look to the hdd from another computer |
| 13:19.14 | os__ | karlpinc, thanks |
| 13:19.33 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: we're just suggesting you steps to rely less on other people fixing stuff for you |
| 13:20.04 | debianfan2439 | i will ask him if he have a usb adapter hdd okey |
| 13:20.12 | debianfan2439 | maybe but i dont think that he have one |
| 13:20.37 | wasamasa | hence why it's better to look for a lug, hackerspace or other linux-centric group |
| 13:20.53 | Ede|Popede | ah, ccc may be also around |
| 13:21.09 | wasamasa | maybe I'll get my hands on that elusive linux malware at 36c3 :> |
| 13:21.20 | ratrace | debianfan2439: weren't you here under another nickname the other day asking the same questions? |
| 13:21.33 | wasamasa | the other one had a raspberry pi |
| 13:21.58 | debianfan2439 | ratrace no but i did ask the same on xmpp debian german chat channel because im german |
| 13:22.09 | debianfan2439 | but there i dont get answers |
| 13:22.18 | debianfan2439 | it seems all are robots or something like thtat |
| 13:22.27 | ratrace | That other nick expressed exactly the very same, rather specific, concern: "would it be possible if the firmware is compromised, that the attacker can access my other devices in the same network" |
| 13:22.37 | Ede|Popede | localized channels aren't really active i guess |
| 13:22.40 | ratrace | so I think that's just you under another nick |
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| 13:23.34 | *** join/#debian debianfan2439 (d90838d5@HSI-KBW-217-008-056-213.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 13:24.08 | debianfan2439 | it was today when i asked this |
| 13:24.26 | wasamasa | use that chance to find a hackerspace, there are a bunch in germany |
| 13:24.28 | debianfan2439 | not yesterday, i never was here in this channel until today |
| 13:25.06 | ratrace | that other nick was also very adamant that their computer was compromised wihtout any proof or indication |
| 13:25.16 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa but are hackerspace not full of people like the guy which send me the allegedly antimalware program ? |
| 13:25.21 | wasamasa | ratrace: is that a common thing on #debian? |
| 13:25.25 | ratrace | not at all |
| 13:25.28 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: nope |
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| 13:26.09 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: well, I can't speak for that person, but they tend to be filled with hobbyists interested in programming, hardware, networks and technology in general |
| 13:26.53 | *** join/#debian debsan (~debsan@unaffiliated/debsan) |
| 13:27.39 | debianfan2439 | but the problem did come with debian and i think debian channel is the right place because it is debian related and i dont want to connect to a hackerspace with people that are hacking and maybe my computer too |
| 13:27.53 | annadane | *plonk* |
| 13:27.58 | ratrace | debianfan2439: what IS the problem though? I'm going through the backlog and I don't see you explain what the problem actually is |
| 13:28.03 | ratrace | annadane: +1 |
| 13:28.07 | greycat | ratrace: they're also using the same web-interface IRC client... |
| 13:28.30 | ratrace | greycat: oh so I'm not crazy :) |
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| 13:28.32 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: you'll have to be lucky to find actual hackers there |
| 13:28.53 | debianfan2439 | ratrace the problem is that i did install debian on my computer and now the computer did become useless |
| 13:29.02 | debianfan2439 | i can not change settings on my bios or on my debian system |
| 13:29.09 | annadane | as far as your compromised BIOS is concerned i'd be surprised if there isn't a way to restore stuff to default settings, otherwise, just reinstall debian |
| 13:29.15 | annadane | and stop downloading shit from untrusted websites |
| 13:29.15 | debianfan2439 | on the grub menu there is nothing to choose i see only the desktop environment blue and black |
| 13:29.22 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: if it reassures you, I'm one of those who get paid to legally hack networks and so on |
| 13:29.50 | ratrace | wasamasa: pm me if you're black-hattin' on the side. :) |
| 13:30.01 | Ede|Popede | does the trick with the removed battery still apply? |
| 13:30.26 | ratrace | debianfan2439: being (un)able to change bios has nothing to do with installing debian though. so what about being unable to change settings on your debian system? |
| 13:31.30 | debianfan2439 | ratrace im unable to change settings on my debian system because if i want to login then after 3 seconds while im typing the password the session starts again |
| 13:31.33 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: if you see the grub menu you're already too late to choose the boot device |
| 13:31.37 | debianfan2439 | it is like the time limit did change |
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| 13:32.10 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: start to hack on the key (F12, Del, F2, whatever it may be) as soon as you see the screen flickering while the graphics is reset |
| 13:32.14 | *** join/#debian earnestly (~Earnestly@unaffiliated/earnestly) |
| 13:32.27 | annadane | s/hack/tap |
| 13:32.40 | debianfan2439 | Ede|Popede but when im on the bios menu to choose the boot medium i see my usb stick live debian image but i can not choose it |
| 13:32.50 | debianfan2439 | it is like my keyboard is not connected to the pc |
| 13:32.52 | ratrace | go hulk on the F12 key. "Hulk smash!" |
| 13:33.06 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: you even may have the choice: "go to bios" or "boot menu" with the latter also offering you the bios |
| 13:33.13 | Ede|Popede | annadane: grazie |
| 13:33.35 | annadane | just didn't want him to freak out about 'hack', you know. there's dangerous people on the interwebs |
| 13:33.40 | annadane | we could all be hacking him right now |
| 13:34.02 | Ede|Popede | ah right. was a false friend i guess |
| 13:34.57 | ratrace | debianfan2439: are you still talking about the bios? there's no time limit on logging in on debian -- and I'm assuming that'd be either the console or a login manager for the desktop |
| 13:34.59 | wxb | karlpinc, Sorry, I'm just a bit confused here. So I'm under 'manual config' in the install. Now I'm going to create swap and the else partitions. Where does the LUKS come in? |
| 13:35.17 | wxb | karlpinc, Oh, sorry I see it now! |
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| 13:35.37 | karlpinc | wxb: There's already an option under "guided config", but whatever. |
| 13:35.38 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: if you prefer, call them Erfahrungsaustauschkreise |
| 13:35.50 | wxb | karlpinc, So first I do LVM LUKS, and then I split into two? |
| 13:35.56 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: https://www.ccc.de/en/club/erfas |
| 13:36.14 | karlpinc | wxb: Yes. |
| 13:36.48 | debianfan2439 | ratrace yes i was still talking about bios. in debian there seems to be a time limit not for password typing on the tty console login |
| 13:36.56 | karlpinc | wxb: First thing that happens is LUKS. In there is an lvm pv. Then you setup a lvm volume group using that physical volume. Then you create 2 lvm lvs (logical volumes). |
| 13:36.57 | *** join/#debian trifolio6 (~h@115.pool85-57-72.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 13:36.58 | wxb | karlpinc, Wait, but that option will take the whole disk. |
| 13:37.29 | karlpinc | wxb: Then you say what you want on those 2 volumes, swap and / -- with a ext4 fs (probably). |
| 13:37.36 | debianfan2439 | if i could look on the debian system data system from my neighbours computer , maybe then you can help me |
| 13:37.49 | karlpinc | wxb: You have a partition already that's separate from your MS Windows stuff? |
| 13:37.50 | debianfan2439 | then i could configure the debian system or not |
| 13:37.53 | *** join/#debian nicknamee (~neon@95.76.231.217) |
| 13:38.01 | wxb | karlpinc, Yep |
| 13:38.15 | debianfan2439 | and maybe you can help me so i will ask him now |
| 13:38.15 | wxb | I made it with gparted via a live usb |
| 13:38.19 | karlpinc | Then you say that that partition is an LUKS partition. |
| 13:38.51 | wxb | Is this the 'manual>configure enrypted volumes' option? |
| 13:38.58 | wxb | I get a warning message after |
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| 13:39.09 | ratrace | debianfan2439: there is no time limit on any of the standard login managers, or the console itself, in debian |
| 13:39.35 | karlpinc | wxb: What is the message? |
| 13:39.44 | debianfan2439 | ratrace so the conclusion maybe could be that the software i did install, did change this setting |
| 13:39.54 | ratrace | debianfan2439: there is no such setting to begin with |
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| 13:40.13 | debianfan2439 | ratrace of course you can set a time limit for password typing |
| 13:40.16 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: only if you have a typo in the tty it will pause for a while. can't say how long and how often it will allow you to try tho. |
| 13:40.17 | debianfan2439 | or what did you talk about |
| 13:40.20 | karlpinc | And did you first choose the partition you've set aside for Debian? |
| 13:40.33 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay, just backing up to make sure I'm where I should be: |
| 13:40.48 | ratrace | debianfan2439: there is no such thing, it can't be because it'd be totally pointless as the password prompt is constantly there waiting for input until you log in |
| 13:40.53 | wxb | I'm at the 'Disk partition' step. |
| 13:40.55 | *** join/#debian jaakkos (~jaakkos@unaffiliated/jaakkos) |
| 13:41.05 | karlpinc | You need to set the kind of partition. What type did you make the partition when you created it? |
| 13:41.11 | debianfan2439 | ratrace years ago i was able to do so on ubuntu so i think its working in a way also in debian |
| 13:41.30 | debianfan2439 | but anyways, somehow the software or better, the attacker, did it, however |
| 13:41.38 | wxb | I see 'guided partition' 'RAID' 'LVM 'encrypted' and iSCSI (sorry it's in French, not sure of translation for some things...) |
| 13:41.40 | ratrace | debianfan2439: the only situation where there IS a time limit is sudo, more precisely between two sudo runs |
| 13:42.02 | ratrace | debianfan2439: there is no such thing, I don't know what you're talking about, the password prompt sits there indefinitely until you hit enter |
| 13:42.04 | *** join/#debian Ce1ticFr0st (~Test@71-218-5-52.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 13:42.14 | wxb | karlpinc, ext4 |
| 13:42.29 | jaakkos | What's the easiest way to get types for debconf question values? debconf-show is a bit unhelpful because it shows the values but in Ansible I would need to know the types. |
| 13:42.32 | karlpinc | wxb: Hard to say. I install rarely and poke it with a stick until it is like I like it. Do you know the name of the partition you want to use? |
| 13:42.32 | ratrace | debianfan2439: unless you mean ssh..... yes, ssh will timeout if you don't supply the password fast enough and that is configurable yes, but that's ssh |
| 13:42.34 | debianfan2439 | ratrace /etc/login.defs LOGIN_TIMEOUT , thats what i meant |
| 13:42.39 | debianfan2439 | that must have changed |
| 13:42.46 | debianfan2439 | because normally thera re 60 seconds |
| 13:42.48 | wxb | n°5 |
| 13:43.14 | debianfan2439 | maybe i can change this if i am on my neighbours computer and connect the hdd |
| 13:43.55 | karlpinc | wxb: You need to get to where it gives you a list of your current partitions. |
| 13:43.58 | wxb | Like how can I get LVM LUKS on just that partition of ext4 that I made. |
| 13:44.03 | wxb | karlpinc, I'm there. |
| 13:44.18 | ratrace | debianfan2439: no desktop? I thought you were talking about the desktop |
| 13:44.32 | karlpinc | wxb: So choose the partition and see what type it has. |
| 13:44.40 | wxb | karlpinc, it is ext4 |
| 13:44.48 | karlpinc | wxb: It needs to be LUKS. |
| 13:44.53 | debianfan2439 | no its a laptop |
| 13:45.00 | wxb | karlpinc, How do I do that? |
| 13:45.05 | ratrace | debianfan2439: by "desktop" I mean the desktop environment lol |
| 13:45.09 | debianfan2439 | but i did expand the hdd already |
| 13:45.12 | wxb | karlpinc, Do I select it? |
| 13:45.18 | debianfan2439 | ratrace no desktop environment |
| 13:45.21 | ratrace | debianfan2439: is the console the only thing you have there? |
| 13:45.22 | karlpinc | wxb: Dunno. There's some option for choosing and changing. I'd presume you choose first, then change. |
| 13:45.26 | debianfan2439 | ratrace yes |
| 13:45.39 | debianfan2439 | but this was desired from begin |
| 13:45.42 | wxb | Oh, I selected it and it has no name... |
| 13:45.46 | debianfan2439 | its not only since i installed the malware |
| 13:45.57 | wxb | Can I name it whatever? |
| 13:45.59 | ratrace | debianfan2439: what malware? |
| 13:46.05 | karlpinc | wxb: It does not need a name, but choose something sane. |
| 13:46.17 | debianfan2439 | ratrace i said that i did get malware from a random user and i did install it |
| 13:46.21 | ratrace | debianfan2439: what malware? |
| 13:46.24 | *** join/#debian neon (~neon@95.76.231.217) |
| 13:46.27 | debianfan2439 | i dont know |
| 13:46.41 | ratrace | debianfan2439: you installed it, surely you must know what you thought you were installing? |
| 13:46.58 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay named, now I choose 'use as'... |
| 13:47.00 | debianfan2439 | ratrace he said that its against dangerous super black trojan horses |
| 13:47.11 | debianfan2439 | so i thought it were a anti malware program |
| 13:47.23 | karlpinc | wxb: Right. |
| 13:47.24 | wxb | karlpinc, 'physical volume for encyrption?' |
| 13:47.26 | debianfan2439 | but obviously it seems that he masked it as anti malware program only |
| 13:47.33 | ratrace | debianfan2439: how did you install it? |
| 13:47.37 | karlpinc | wxb: Right. |
| 13:47.51 | debianfan2439 | ratrace it was a shell script so i did with root rights ./program.sh |
| 13:48.07 | annadane | our intrepid hero supposedly installed debian from "some website" from someone he knows and "got infected with malware that changed the BIOS" |
| 13:48.08 | debianfan2439 | and then, like i said, my computer did automatically restart and then all was changed |
| 13:48.12 | annadane | there, i've caught everyone up to speed |
| 13:48.19 | ratrace | debianfan2439: gesundheit. now, "format C:" and reinstall debian |
| 13:48.23 | wxb | karlpinc, Then I don't touch encyprtion = aes, siz = 256, alorirthm = xts-plain64 |
| 13:48.46 | ratrace | annadane: possible, I suppose. |
| 13:48.50 | karlpinc | wxb: Don't mess with it unless you know what you're doing. |
| 13:49.00 | debianfan2439 | ratrace if this is a hint to that i should use windows, no i dont want to use windows thank you |
| 13:49.13 | debianfan2439 | im here because i want to use debia |
| 13:49.18 | ratrace | debianfan2439: it's not. "format C:" in quotes, I joked about format everything, nuke & pave, reinstall |
| 13:49.24 | wxb | karlpinc, So I'll add a passphrase. No point in wiping the data? I mean, I'm keeping the original Windows OS unencrypted, so no point. |
| 13:49.48 | *** join/#debian Ce1ticFr0st (~Test@71-218-5-52.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 13:49.51 | karlpinc | You need a passphrase. Don't lose it. ... |
| 13:49.52 | toruvinn | if i have an external mouse and synaptic touchpad, is there a way to control their sensitivity separately? the touchpad seems a bit slow atm. and i dont want to just change the acceleration. |
| 13:50.06 | wxb | karlpinc, It's not letting me add a passphrase when I select that. |
| 13:50.20 | karlpinc | wxb: You can add up to 7 other passphrases later. |
| 13:50.32 | wxb | karlpinc, So, for now don't touch it? |
| 13:51.06 | wxb | karlpinc, Also, boot indicator, should I add one? |
| 13:51.36 | wxb | When will I add the passphrase? There is no prompt for it! |
| 13:51.41 | debianfan2439 | ratrace maybe i have to do this if the other thing will not work (if i connect now the hdd to my neighbours computer and starting from live usb debian and then looking at the compromised debian system ( on the hdd) like it was suggest here, and then first i will look at the login.defs file if i can just change the timemout so that i can login at |
| 13:51.41 | debianfan2439 | least) and hhope that i get help here what i can do else |
| 13:51.44 | karlpinc | wxb: Wiping the data can be good for security. If you write random data to the whole area then there's no telling what data is random and what data is the data you've written encrypted. But... completely filling a SSD can be ungood, depending on the SSD. |
| 13:52.06 | karlpinc | wxb: You'll probably add a passphrase when you setup the encrypted volume for use. |
| 13:52.41 | wxb | wxb, Re: wiping, the data is available in the Windows side |
| 13:52.43 | ratrace | debianfan2439: there's nothing you can do. if you ARE compromised, you'll need forensic methods to figure out what's infected and replace or clean it somehow. if you aren't and someone played a joke on you, there's no way to be 100% sure that's what happened. |
| 13:52.50 | *** join/#debian rakor_ (~rakor@45.77.54.30) |
| 13:52.59 | karlpinc | wxb: Also, it's boring to wait for random data to be written. |
| 13:53.07 | *** join/#debian Grldfrdom (uid391113@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sdltcxxgyuewlkfg) |
| 13:53.10 | *** join/#debian Colti (Miramar-FL@2a00:c1e0:0:2:0:1:208:ab5e) |
| 13:53.20 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay. So I did the LUKS settings. Now what should I do? |
| 13:53.34 | wxb | Write the changes? |
| 13:53.39 | ratrace | debianfan2439: the former is complicated and expensive, and just reinstalling everything is the cheapest and fastest method. |
| 13:53.40 | debianfan2439 | ratrace okay but maybe i can at least make a back up from my data |
| 13:53.45 | karlpinc | wxb: That the data is elsewhere is not the point. (You can re-read my statement above.) |
| 13:53.52 | ratrace | debianfan2439: sure, but you can't trust that data not to be infected :) |
| 13:53.53 | karlpinc | wxb: Yes. Write and keep going. |
| 13:54.05 | *** join/#debian DIDAVISION (~DINOWILLI@82.102.16.185) |
| 13:54.07 | debianfan2439 | ratrace and if it is a plain text file like my school stuff ? |
| 13:54.08 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay, so will wipe data. |
| 13:54.15 | ratrace | debianfan2439: then it's okay |
| 13:54.22 | *** join/#debian tryte (~tryte@gateway/tor-sasl/tryte) |
| 13:54.30 | debianfan2439 | okay so at least this i can safe |
| 13:54.36 | *** join/#debian neon__ (~neon@109.166.134.231) |
| 13:54.39 | ratrace | debianfan2439: but you can't trust (word) documents, images, movies, PDFs, and especially not executables |
| 13:55.01 | debianfan2439 | ratrace okay so only plain text files i have many from then |
| 13:55.07 | ratrace | any format that's not plain text, or IS but contains code that some interpreter might run (like word files even if in XML format) |
| 13:55.29 | ratrace | you can't trust that, I mean. just pure text with no control codes? sure, have at it. |
| 13:55.34 | karlpinc | ratrace: You're right, but there's a _really_ big difference between the executable catagory and the rest of your list. |
| 13:55.59 | ratrace | karlpinc: and PDFs and I've seen infected word files in action :) |
| 13:56.04 | wxb | karlpinc, So when will I do the swap and else partitions? |
| 13:56.21 | *** join/#debian kfvn_ (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/kh4ydn) |
| 13:56.41 | karlpinc | wxb: Next step is to put LVM on the encrypted partition. Then you can create logical volumes (lvs) for swap and /. |
| 13:56.44 | wxb | Oh. Erroe message. |
| 13:56.49 | wrksx | infected pdf? is that a thing? never thought it could be |
| 13:56.50 | wxb | No root system. |
| 13:56.57 | *** part/#debian neon__ (~neon@109.166.134.231) |
| 13:57.00 | ratrace | karlpinc: even font files and image files, there's a load of "if malicious actor can submit a crafted XY file" CVEs |
| 13:57.00 | *** join/#debian jubo2 (~jubz@wikipedia/jukeboksi) |
| 13:57.42 | wrksx | and images damn |
| 13:57.42 | karlpinc | wxb: That's ok. You need to go back to your list of partitions. Now you will have a new one for your encrypted partition and you need to pick that and work with it. |
| 13:58.15 | ratrace | wrksx: here's a quick, recent, linux-related example: https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2019-1787 |
| 13:58.23 | wxb | karlpinc, But it won't even let me write the changes. |
| 13:58.23 | karlpinc | ratrace: Sure. Even html files (probably) the glory days of MS Windows. |
| 13:58.30 | wrksx | thx ratrace |
| 13:58.56 | ratrace | wrksx: for images, there was this huge GNOME thumbnailer bug that caused quite some mess and made GNOME disable it by default, it also includd the ability to run windows malware (sic!) via wine |
| 13:59.27 | ratrace | karlpinc: yes if they contain javascripts and whatever is opening that HTML goes "Oh, look! Javascripts! Imma go and feed it into this interpreter here...." |
| 13:59.28 | karlpinc | wxb: Like I say, I poke it with a stick until it works. Are you sure that the luks stuff is not setup? |
| 14:00.02 | wxb | karlpinc, Yeah, I just selected the changes to make and now it won't apply them. |
| 14:00.16 | karlpinc | wxb: What happens when you go to the list of partitions? |
| 14:00.35 | karlpinc | wxb: Do you have a luks container? |
| 14:00.48 | wxb | karlpinc, Nothing. It just shows everything including the luks one, but I can't apply changes. |
| 14:01.05 | ratrace | karlpinc: problem with non-executable file infection is exploiting buffer overflows and friends, which cause code execution within the privilege of the user opening the file. you can literally inject cpu opcodes into strings for such vulnerabilities. |
| 14:01.09 | karlpinc | wxb: What happens when you choose the luks one? |
| 14:01.29 | wrksx | ratrace: that's terrifying |
| 14:01.44 | wxb | karlpinc, Then I go back to everything I just did: naming etc |
| 14:01.45 | ratrace | karlpinc: bestest recent example is this huge remote vuln for PHP, you could inject exec code through malformed URL, if the server is running nginx+fpm with PATH_INFO set up in a certain (most common!) way |
| 14:02.13 | ratrace | (thankfully that's not default on debian, but still many PHP apps do that...) |
| 14:02.19 | karlpinc | ratrace: Yes. But all that means is that "software has vulnerabilties". This is not a reason to be afraid of, say, image files. Just a reason to be cautious. |
| 14:02.48 | debianfan2439 | i did connect my hdd to a another computer now. im on a debian live system and try to access my compromised hdd from the debian live system. the hdd is encrypted and i need to enter the passphrase |
| 14:02.58 | ratrace | karlpinc: sure sure, but the context here is that debianfan2439 said they executed this trojan as root. so, all bets are off as it really could be _anything_ and exploiting any of the zero days in any shape or form. |
| 14:02.59 | debianfan2439 | but i did not encrypt my hdd, i did never |
| 14:03.06 | *** join/#debian th3jam3sd3an (~james@75.170.128.245) |
| 14:03.20 | debianfan2439 | so i can not think of the reason why it is now encrypted |
| 14:03.35 | wrksx | it self encrypted overnight (probably) |
| 14:03.36 | ratrace | karlpinc: that's what in infosec we say that the "local attacker" is as good as remote attacker, if there's physical access, and phishing someone to in sudo program.sh your exec is as close as you get to that :) |
| 14:04.04 | debianfan2439 | wrksx this or the malicious software i did install |
| 14:04.04 | karlpinc | ratrace: Yes. And it does make sense to point that out. But at some point, well, you want your word processing document and the computer's really no good without it. If you can't use your data why have a computer? That's my point. |
| 14:04.21 | wrksx | debianfan2439: looks like you can think of a reason |
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| 14:04.47 | ratrace | karlpinc: I agree, I was just saying that they can't trust their non-plain-text files. emphasis on "trust". |
| 14:05.13 | debianfan2439 | so i have to erase my hdd and install debian again ... i think |
| 14:05.22 | wxb | Is there a guide for this? I know I'm a noob, but I feel like this shouldn't be so difficult... thanks for all your help karlpinc |
| 14:05.25 | karlpinc | wxb: Once you choose the LUKS one you can do 2 things: make it an LVM volume or make a partition table and put actual partitons on it. You don't want just "etc" on it. There's a choice for LVM. |
| 14:05.29 | ratrace | once the infection happens and it's known to have happened, everyone will tell you just to reinstall as you can never be sure there's nothing hiding somewhre in some innocent looking file |
| 14:05.52 | ratrace | debianfan2439: that'd be the best course of action, after you've mounted it on a machine and copied off your text files |
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| 14:05.58 | karlpinc | ratrace: Yes. Reinstall is the only sane way forward. |
| 14:06.06 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: with an installer from debian.org this time i hope ;) |
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| 14:06.47 | debianfan2439 | can i do just0 dd of=/dev/sda if=/dev/zero from my live system to erase the encrypted hdd or are there more recommend ways ? |
| 14:07.11 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: if it *is* sda, then YES YOU CAN |
| 14:07.24 | karlpinc | wxb: And yes. I find it a struggle each time I do it. That's why the "guided" has a single menu item for LUKS + LVM. But my guess is that this won't work for you because you're keeping MS Windows, so you need to fuss with the details. |
| 14:07.30 | ratrace | debianfan2439: sure that's one way. I'd also add a larger block size, eg bs=1M |
| 14:07.42 | ratrace | debianfan2439: status=progress to see the progress bar |
| 14:08.04 | debianfan2439 | can i do just0 dd of=/dev/sda if=/dev/zero from my live system to erase the encrypted hdd or are there more recommend ways ? |
| 14:08.05 | karlpinc | debianfan2439: No real reason to wipe the disk. You could just re-install. |
| 14:08.12 | debianfan2439 | sorry |
| 14:08.35 | debianfan2439 | karlpinc what do you mean with re installl? |
| 14:08.48 | wrksx | omg |
| 14:08.52 | wxb | karlpinc, I find it reassuring that I'm not the only one who struggles here! |
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| 14:08.57 | debianfan2439 | ratrace but i do not have to wait the full progress or ? can i not just abort after 2 minutes ? |
| 14:09.01 | bolt | debianfan2439: just use the disk for whatever you want. there's no point erasing your encrypted data before doing so |
| 14:09.03 | karlpinc | debianfan2439: There'd be potentially malicious stuff in the bits on the drive, but the OS would not use them for anything but space to overwrite. |
| 14:09.10 | ratrace | personally, I'd satisfy my OCD and paranoia and I'd wipe that drive out :) |
| 14:09.16 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay. Well, I found the option to encrypt that part. |
| 14:09.19 | karlpinc | debianfan2439: Boot up the install media and go through the installation process. |
| 14:09.34 | wxb | It's writing over with randomness. Then I'll do LVM I guess. |
| 14:09.40 | debianfan2439 | karlpinc so this is the way to install debian, and what did you mean with reinstall debian ? |
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| 14:09.48 | karlpinc | ratrace: That does have a certain feeling of satisfaction. |
| 14:09.53 | Ede|Popede | ratrace: right, it's a psychological thing. still may be of help ;) |
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| 14:10.12 | karlpinc | debianfan2439: You install debian by running the installer. |
| 14:10.20 | karlpinc | !tell debianfan2439 about firmware images |
| 14:10.21 | Ede|Popede | and give the user some time to think about what went wrong and why |
| 14:10.27 | debianfan2439 | karlpinc i know, i did think that you mean with reinstall debian something else |
| 14:10.47 | karlpinc | debianfan2439: Nothing else. |
| 14:10.53 | debianfan2439 | okay then good |
| 14:11.28 | karlpinc | wxb: I suspect it will ask for a passphrase when done writing randomness. |
| 14:11.36 | debianfan2439 | is this a uncompromised offical debian image https://debian.inf.tu-dresden.de/debian-cd/10.1.0/amd64/iso-cd/debian-10.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso ? |
| 14:11.42 | debianfan2439 | i want to do it in a right way now |
| 14:11.54 | wxb | karlpinc, 33% ... okay :) |
| 14:12.08 | wxb | debianfan2439, Look at the sha512 sums. |
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| 14:12.19 | debianfan2439 | okay, only 512 ? |
| 14:12.20 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: should be if this is an offichial repo (and it looks like one) |
| 14:12.22 | debianfan2439 | or should i check all |
| 14:12.43 | Ede|Popede | sha512 only should be fine |
| 14:12.44 | wxb | debianfan2439, I think one is enough, but not sure.... |
| 14:12.50 | karlpinc | debianfan2439: It is probably best to use the unoffical installer that has non-free firmware built-in. That way your hardware is more likely to "just work" without fussing. I had the bot private message you with the url. |
| 14:13.27 | debianfan2439 | karlpinc but i dont want non-free firmware, i did use the normal image and my system worked fine, ffrom a hardware perspective |
| 14:13.32 | debianfan2439 | i didnt need nonfree firmware |
| 14:13.43 | karlpinc | debianfan2439: If you want to be really paranoid, get the sha512 data from a different debian mirror. That way both would have to be compromised (or your network connection completely pwoned.) |
| 14:14.02 | annadane | 512?! fancy fancy |
| 14:14.18 | karlpinc | debianfan2439: Understood. If you don't need it it won't install. It's a safey net. |
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| 14:14.25 | debianfan2439 | karlpinc and if i check the sha512 data, does this mean that the image is 100% not compromised? or do i have to check the signaturre also |
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| 14:15.24 | ratrace | there's also the way of verifying the GPG signature of the checksums file :) (for the extra paranoid) you'd need a working, known not to be compromised, debian installation first :) |
| 14:15.48 | wxb | ratrace, Wooww life sound difficult for such a person! |
| 14:15.49 | karlpinc | debianfan2439: You check your downloaded installer against the sha512 you also download. If they match then they are either both good or both compromised. |
| 14:15.52 | debianfan2439 | ratrace cant i do it from a debian live sytem? |
| 14:16.26 | wxb | karlpinc, Both compromised!! Scary world out there. I didn't know that. Here I've naively check sums for years. |
| 14:16.35 | ratrace | debianfan2439: yes if the debian gpg keys are installed, and I think they are if that's debian |
| 14:16.36 | karlpinc | debianfan2439: Sure you can. (But how do you know that your debian live is not compromised? ;-) |
| 14:16.46 | wxb | On ##windows that said sums weren't needed because there is https. lol |
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| 14:17.29 | Mathisen | wxb, no one ever said that |
| 14:17.46 | debianfan2439 | its debian live standard buster so i hope the gpg keys are installed otherwhise wouldnt they install it if i install debian keyring? |
| 14:17.47 | ratrace | wouldn't surprise me if they did :) hashtag oh-windows :) |
| 14:17.50 | debianfan2439 | or is this a other thing |
| 14:18.17 | debianfan2439 | i mean the packet "debian-keyring" |
| 14:18.23 | karlpinc | wxb: It all depends on what got compromised. If the debian infrastructure somehow got compromised then all the mirrors could contain bad data. This is why phsycial meetup is required to become a debian developer, who is able to then work on the infrastructure. |
| 14:18.25 | *** join/#debian TheCreeper (~TheCreepe@unaffiliated/thecreeper) |
| 14:18.40 | wxb | Mathisen, Yes, I was asking about the sum for the Aomei thing and was told that it was probs fine because there is https. Seems kinda sketchy to me. |
| 14:19.44 | Mathisen | and you was told to go to the software in questions site so see if they posted hashes |
| 14:19.54 | greycat | Physical meet-up is required for exchanging crypto signature keys. So person A can say "I trust that this key was given to me by person B", and sign it. |
| 14:19.55 | karlpinc | wxb: Depends on the threat model. It's a lot easier to give some admin a candy bar for their password than to break https. |
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| 14:20.58 | karlpinc | wxb: Done? |
| 14:21.11 | wxb | karlpinc, Nope, not yet. |
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| 14:22.43 | debianfan2439 | the debian image is downloading very slow (400KB/s) is this normal? |
| 14:22.51 | debianfan2439 | or maybe someone is compromising my image at the moment ?? |
| 14:22.59 | wxb | Mathisen, "go to the website and find out.. or contact them" if one has to contact someone just for the sums on their software there is probs a security oversight. |
| 14:23.00 | wxb | lol |
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| 14:23.07 | debianfan2439 | on of my neighbour i believe that he is sometimes in my wifi network |
| 14:23.13 | debianfan2439 | but i cant proof it |
| 14:23.32 | debianfan2439 | its just a feeling he is always at home and have much computers in his appartment |
| 14:23.41 | wrksx | debianfan2439: you sound so paranoid |
| 14:23.52 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: why would you trust your neighbor with hardware then? |
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| 14:24.02 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa this is another neighbour ... |
| 14:24.03 | debianfan2439 | not the same |
| 14:24.21 | greycat | wrksx: a few of us suspect that debianfan2439 is also cinesc who is also waka-something, who has been pestering this channel with "how do I security" for a week |
| 14:24.31 | debianfan2439 | god i would never ask this one neighbour about hardware.. who knows what he did with this hardware |
| 14:24.40 | ratrace | wrksx: yup what greycat said |
| 14:24.43 | wrksx | greycat: haha |
| 14:24.47 | wasamasa | greycat: now ##security as well, with a greater focus on hardware vulnerabilities |
| 14:24.56 | wasamasa | greycat: quite the obsession with spectre and meltdown |
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| 14:25.38 | karlpinc | Face it, your UEFI could be doing almost anything and you wouldn't know. |
| 14:25.45 | wasamasa | exactly |
| 14:25.55 | wasamasa | paranoia is a helluvadrug |
| 14:26.04 | ratrace | unfortunate reality, and let's not forget there's a whole MINIX stashed away into that IME chip! |
| 14:26.08 | debianfan2439 | the debian iso is downloaded and the both hashes are the same, but it did think what if the program with which i check the checksums hashes are not working properly ? |
| 14:26.18 | debianfan2439 | how can i be sure that the program is working fine |
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| 14:26.36 | debianfan2439 | is there a program for? |
| 14:26.44 | wasamasa | you can't |
| 14:26.46 | karlpinc | debianfan2439: Study up on the math and read the source code and check it. |
| 14:26.49 | wasamasa | that's the great part of paranoia |
| 14:27.02 | ratrace | +1 |
| 14:27.23 | wasamasa | I prefer some applied mathematics to figure out how likely it is that someone would deliberately mess with the copy of sha512sum on a debian image |
| 14:27.29 | debianfan2439 | i think i have to trust the debian worker that they did a good job in programming the program |
| 14:27.42 | debianfan2439 | i did read that debian is one of the most stabile distros so i hope its fine |
| 14:28.03 | wxb | karlpinc, Not yet! |
| 14:28.08 | wxb | karlpinc, 99%... |
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| 14:28.16 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: it's part of coreutils, so you have to trust the GNU developers |
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| 14:28.27 | ratrace | wasamasa: sure, it'd be FAR easier to submit innocent looking cleanup of the OpenSSL code :) :)))) :)))))))))))) |
| 14:28.38 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa okey then i hope they did a good job |
| 14:28.44 | greycat | :-/ |
| 14:28.52 | ratrace | I know it wasn't malicious, but that's irrelevant, given how easy that bug crept in and was affecting live systems |
| 14:28.54 | wasamasa | I wouldn't be so sure, personally |
| 14:29.03 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa do you not use debia also ? |
| 14:29.10 | wrksx | debianfan2439: of course they did. The issue is, do you have the sofware they wrote, or your neighbour's? |
| 14:29.17 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: nearly all linux systems use coreutils |
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| 14:29.36 | annadane | i'm sure openssl has 49589584056849857947598478475 backdoors |
| 14:29.48 | annadane | sorry, forgot to carry the 1 |
| 14:29.49 | greycat | There's libressl if you prefer. |
| 14:29.56 | karlpinc | annadane: Libressl then ;-) |
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| 14:30.17 | ratrace | good luck with libressl though :) |
| 14:30.17 | annadane | i'm mostly joking, i'm sure openssl got cleaned up a lot since heartbleed |
| 14:30.19 | debianfan2439 | wrksx this is a good question i did have the thought already but i dont want to ring on is door to see if he is there at the moment because he have no car so i can not be sure |
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| 14:30.38 | wasamasa | considering how often the GNU developers like breaking their software, I wouldn't be surprised |
| 14:30.43 | debianfan2439 | maybe he have a program that does this process autoomatically |
| 14:30.45 | wrksx | maybe checksum checksum just in case |
| 14:30.46 | wasamasa | fortunately there's plenty alternative implementations of sha512 |
| 14:30.56 | ratrace | BY TEH WAY... I was talking about the OpenSSL bug specific to Debian, when the maintainer thought they were optimizing the code and reduced OpenSSH's key space to merely 65k |
| 14:30.57 | wasamasa | you can just compare their outputs to satisfy that paranoia of yours |
| 14:31.06 | greycat | ratrace: yes, I understood it |
| 14:31.11 | ratrace | oh, okay :) |
| 14:31.20 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay. Done the LUKS part of it. Now I do LVM? |
| 14:31.21 | wasamasa | ratrace: such are security bugs, subtle in their nature |
| 14:31.45 | karlpinc | wxb: Now you should have a new LVM section on the partition page. You choose it an put LVM on. |
| 14:32.05 | ratrace | so if happy accidents happen that easily.... I can only wonder what deliberate mistakes can do |
| 14:32.12 | RoyK | ratrace: which bug was this? |
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| 14:32.25 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa i did change all hashes from md5 to sha512 and all were fine i did use multiple mirrors and not only one and always over https.. i will write the md5 hash on a paper and then later i will check the hash from the new system too so i hope i get a little more security |
| 14:32.41 | greycat | ,v openssh-blacklist |
| 14:32.42 | judd | Package: openssh-blacklist on amd64 -- jessie: 0.4.1+nmu1 |
| 14:32.44 | debianfan2439 | and then i will check it again if my neighbour is at the moemtn not here |
| 14:32.47 | ratrace | RoyK: https://research.swtch.com/openssl |
| 14:32.51 | greycat | ,info openssh-blacklist --release jessie |
| 14:32.53 | judd | Package openssh-blacklist (net, optional) in jessie/amd64: list of default blacklisted OpenSSH RSA and DSA keys. Version: 0.4.1+nmu1; Size: 1791.8k; Installed: 4064k |
| 14:33.06 | greycat | That was done as fallout from the bug.... |
| 14:33.13 | wxb | karlpinc, Is that the 'manage the LVM option just above the LUKS option that I just ran? |
| 14:33.16 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: we can't help you with paranoia, for that I'd recommend visiting a doctor |
| 14:33.16 | ratrace | oh look I was wrong, 32k keysize, not 65k |
| 14:33.23 | ratrace | key space* |
| 14:33.27 | karlpinc | wxb: Probably. |
| 14:34.02 | annadane | it's funny because with the whole openssl thing having 6 trillion lines of code there *actually* is reason for paranoia :P |
| 14:34.11 | ratrace | annadane: heh yeah |
| 14:34.33 | humpled | but paranoia is not reason |
| 14:34.35 | RoyK | ratrace: oh - only 11 years old⦠|
| 14:34.40 | greycat | Yeah, I absolutely understand why the OpenBSD folks started the LibreSSL rewrite. |
| 14:34.40 | annadane | paranoids are excessively paranoid... until they're not |
| 14:34.58 | wrksx | debianfan2439: it doesn't matter if he's home or not |
| 14:35.00 | ratrace | RoyK: doesn't matter, it's a good example how good will and a bit of tinkering can cause huge mess |
| 14:35.16 | ratrace | RoyK: problem being code review, everywhere, not just in this example |
| 14:35.17 | wxb | karlpinc, Do I great a volume groupe?? |
| 14:35.17 | karlpinc | wxb: You'll need to do _something_ to tell it that the LUKS space is to be used for LVM. I don't know if you choose the LUKS section to do this or if you've done that or if the lvm section does that. |
| 14:35.18 | annadane | i'll still use linux but mad respect for the openbsd's of this world |
| 14:35.29 | karlpinc | wxb: Looks like you made progress. |
| 14:35.30 | debianfan2439 | wrksx you have right ... i will turn of the wifi for this purpose and use lan |
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| 14:35.39 | wxb | *create |
| 14:35.40 | karlpinc | wxb: Yes. Once you have a pv you make a vg (volume group). |
| 14:35.46 | karlpinc | wxb: You only need one. |
| 14:35.50 | RoyK | uninstalls ssh and goes back to telnet |
| 14:35.50 | wxb | karlpinc, I name it? |
| 14:36.07 | karlpinc | wxb: Yes. The default name is often good. |
| 14:36.21 | ratrace | RoyK: you can't exploit code that's not there! smart :))) |
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| 14:37.41 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay, so now I apply that change? It's saying that there is 0 free pv; 1 used pv; 1vg, 0 vl |
| 14:38.02 | karlpinc | wxb: (The point of the vg is to be able to move vgs between pvs, so as to be able to swap out or move to different physical disks.) |
| 14:38.13 | karlpinc | wxb: Sounds good. |
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| 14:39.15 | wxb | karlpinc, I added a logical volume, because there wasn't one. Good idea? |
| 14:39.17 | debianfan2439 | i did read that usb sticks can have malicious firmware. if i use a cd-r, are there also concerns ? |
| 14:39.28 | wxb | Now I have 1 pv, 1 vg, 1 logical volume |
| 14:39.31 | karlpinc | wxb: Then 2 lvs -- one for swap and one for /. (the latter for your files.) |
| 14:39.41 | wxb | lvs?? |
| 14:39.51 | wxb | logical volume sysytem? |
| 14:39.52 | karlpinc | logical volumes. |
| 14:39.55 | wxb | oka |
| 14:39.56 | wxb | y |
| 14:40.12 | karlpinc | wxb: How much ram do you have? |
| 14:40.24 | wxb | So I need two vg then too, no? |
| 14:40.28 | wxb | karlpinc, 4G I think |
| 14:40.37 | karlpinc | wxb: No. one vg |
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| 14:41.03 | wxb | But I cannot add a second lvs in it... |
| 14:41.09 | karlpinc | wxb: If you've got enough disk, then 1G of swap might be good. |
| 14:41.11 | *** join/#debian tituksse (~iliaskari@196.64.58.213) |
| 14:41.23 | karlpinc | wxb: Yes you can, unless you used all the space already. |
| 14:41.37 | *** join/#debian holgersson (~quassel@unaffiliated/holgersson) |
| 14:42.19 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay. It think that the lv was too big. So I create first a 1G swap, and then I create the else one? |
| 14:42.42 | *** join/#debian neo219 (~anon@178.254.197.86) |
| 14:42.52 | karlpinc | wxb: Sure. You might want to leave some unallocated space that you can use later if the disk fills. Or not. |
| 14:42.56 | *** join/#debian dvs (~hibbard@cwv.teksavvy.com) |
| 14:43.10 | *** part/#debian earnestly (~Earnestly@unaffiliated/earnestly) |
| 14:43.27 | karlpinc | wxb: The point of lvm is to be able to easily add/remove space from partitions, and therefore from file systems etc. |
| 14:43.43 | greycat | Easily add. Not so easily remove. |
| 14:43.48 | karlpinc | wxb: Or that's _a_ point, and the most commonly used feature. |
| 14:44.27 | wxb | Okay. So 1pv, 1 vg, 2 vg: 1024MB swap 31000 else. Good? |
| 14:44.39 | karlpinc | Right. Adding is easier than removing. Which is why sometimes there's extra space left for the future. |
| 14:45.08 | wxb | karlpinc, I dunno, shouldn't I use all the space seeing as I only hae 30G to work with? |
| 14:45.41 | karlpinc | wxb: Yes.... You can use all the space. |
| 14:45.51 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay, going for finish. |
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| 14:47.21 | *** part/#debian tituksse (~iliaskari@196.64.58.213) |
| 14:47.21 | wxb | karlpinc, Now I have to define swap, no? |
| 14:47.48 | karlpinc | wxb: Now the 2 lvs will show in the list of partitions. |
| 14:47.56 | wxb | karlpinc, Ohhhh. Cool! |
| 14:48.06 | karlpinc | wxb: You tell the system one is for swap and the other is ext4 for /. |
| 14:48.09 | wxb | karlpinc, Use as swap |
| 14:48.38 | *** join/#debian debianfan2439 (d90838d5@HSI-KBW-217-008-056-213.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 14:48.44 | wxb | Is it a problem that the swap one is showing up AFTER the other one? |
| 14:48.52 | karlpinc | wxb: No. |
| 14:49.06 | wxb | mount point = / ? |
| 14:49.20 | karlpinc | wxb: For the data partition, yes. |
| 14:49.20 | wxb | And keep other defaults? |
| 14:49.26 | *** join/#debian jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@corp.cdc.nicusa.com) |
| 14:49.27 | ratrace | wxb: is that a hdd or an ssd? |
| 14:49.29 | *** join/#debian iderik (~weechat@h-162-65.A147.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 14:49.31 | wxb | right for bigger 'other' one. ssd |
| 14:49.42 | karlpinc | is now nervous that there's not a separate boot partition. |
| 14:49.42 | ratrace | no problem then |
| 14:49.54 | wxb | karlpinc, Oh |
| 14:50.06 | wxb | oops |
| 14:50.08 | ratrace | encrypted /boot is supported though |
| 14:50.10 | wxb | Hmmmm. |
| 14:50.20 | wxb | So I need to start over?? |
| 14:50.52 | karlpinc | wxb: No. ratrace says encrypted /boot is supported. Which is good. I _thought_ so, but haven't done it. |
| 14:51.12 | wxb | So I have to add a third lvs? |
| 14:51.19 | karlpinc | wxb: No. All is good. |
| 14:51.27 | wxb | Okay. Sorry. Thanks! |
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| 14:51.44 | ratrace | I did it once, few years ago, took me a while to pin point exact option needed in /etc/defaults/grub. But I don't bother these days, I use separate /boot |
| 14:51.48 | karlpinc | wxb: You'd have to add another regular partition, "next to" the LUKS partition, to have an unencrypted /boot. |
| 14:52.02 | karlpinc | ratrace: What do you recommend? |
| 14:52.14 | wxb | So I have the partition table done. With swap and else LUKsed and so now I continue the install? |
| 14:52.33 | tsglove | I am trying to use inotifywait. My short script is at this link. When I modify a file inside the directory, inotifywait does "raise the flag" that it was modified. Yet the action I placed there never happens. Any idea what could be going on? script --> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Fdd9tM6tBy/ |
| 14:52.56 | ratrace | karlpinc: I use LUKS just to protect data at rest, so I don't care about encrypting /boot. So it's really what the user wants. I'd recommend either way. |
| 14:53.15 | debianfan2439 | why there is no firewall during the debian installation progress with the debian netinst iso image? |
| 14:53.40 | karlpinc | wxb: So to have an unencrypted /boot you'd have to start over and remove the LUKS partition and make 2 instead. A teeny one for boot and another for LUKS. And then redo all the LUKS stuff etc. At this point I'd say try to make it work as-is. You can always reinstall if nobody here can figure it out. |
| 14:53.41 | ratrace | karlpinc: thing is I did encrypted /boot once, and there was no support in the installer for it, I had to manually fix grub config. Dunno if that's the case today, or it JustWorks(tm) |
| 14:54.12 | wxb | Okay... what is the issue? |
| 14:54.15 | ratrace | debianfan2439: what would the firewall change? |
| 14:54.21 | jhutchins_wk | karlpinc: Because on-system firewalls are pointless. |
| 14:54.43 | annadane | i don't think debian even has a firewall set up by default at all |
| 14:54.44 | karlpinc | wxb: My recommendation is to do a minimal install. No "desktop" task to install a gui etc. Once you get it to boot run "tasksel" as root and install your desktop of choice. |
| 14:54.47 | annadane | i could be wrong |
| 14:55.02 | ratrace | annadane: you're right, it doesn't as there can't be a default. |
| 14:55.06 | annadane | it has apparmor, which is a different thing |
| 14:55.16 | wxb | karlpinc, But with what ratrace is saying will I have boot issues? |
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| 14:55.40 | karlpinc | wxb: I say "let's find out". If so, only until you fix them. |
| 14:55.51 | debianfan2439 | is it possible to configure iptables during the installation? |
| 14:55.59 | wxb | karlpinc, Oh. I see that I haven't applied the changes yet... should I cancel them all? |
| 14:56.01 | debianfan2439 | to build a firewall |
| 14:56.04 | karlpinc | wxb: Unless you want to redo. Up to you. |
| 14:56.23 | wxb | Whateves, here goes. |
| 14:56.29 | annadane | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_903744xh8 |
| 14:56.41 | wxb | Installing sytem. |
| 14:56.47 | karlpinc | wxb: Installing a minimal system will take a minimal amount of time. |
| 14:56.54 | wxb | karlpinc, lol |
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| 14:57.04 | debianfan2439 | annadane what is this video about, is this about building a firewall during the installation progress ? |
| 14:57.12 | annadane | no, it's just a stupid anime clip |
| 14:57.13 | ratrace | wxb: if you wanna find out, go ahead and before you finally reboot, see if you can peek into the mounted root's /etc/default/grub and check if it contains GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK=y . Unless I'm mistaken that's the only thing needed to trigger grub to config itself for encrypted /boot. Back when I was trying that, this one-liner was hard to figure out :) |
| 14:57.17 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: configuring a firewall requires a certain level of competency |
| 14:57.32 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa i want to only allow connections to the debian mirror |
| 14:57.37 | debianfan2439 | can you help me with that |
| 14:57.47 | wasamasa | nope |
| 14:57.52 | ratrace | debianfan2439: you don't need a firewall during installation. what do you think that firewall would protect? |
| 14:58.10 | ratrace | debianfan2439: there aren't any services running thus no open ports, so what would you wall off? |
| 14:58.24 | wasamasa | malicious programs trying to talk with shady hackers via smtp |
| 14:58.30 | karlpinc | wxb: You can tell the installer to give you a shell -- or just use a vt -- to check like ratrace recommends. (I'd write down what he wrote, to have for later. That'd be the key to fixing a boot problem.) |
| 14:58.35 | wasamasa | isn't that what we were building up to? |
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| 14:59.07 | karlpinc | wasamasa: I do like default-deny. |
| 14:59.32 | wasamasa | sure, but that requires some competency to be configured correctly for the many things that you need to work |
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| 15:00.29 | ratrace | but again, what would the firewall on the installer ISO, wall off? |
| 15:00.55 | debianfan2439 | ratrace i want that my debian installation becomes not compromised when im connecting to the internet to install software during the installation i mean what if the system that i have during the installation is not up to date and then i connect to the internet with a not up to date system |
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| 15:01.11 | ratrace | debianfan2439: a firewall won't help you with that, bud |
| 15:01.12 | debianfan2439 | would this not maximize the possibility of compromising |
| 15:01.25 | debianfan2439 | minimize |
| 15:01.31 | karlpinc | wasamasa: Agreed. I'm wondering now whether to start allowing outbound QUIC etc. I suppose no reason why not... |
| 15:01.39 | annadane | no. just install the damn thing. |
| 15:01.40 | ratrace | no. a "firewall" is just a packet filter, and it makes sense only to protect open ports. if no ports are open, what's the use of the firewall? |
| 15:01.48 | wasamasa | if your system is not up to date and connecting to the internet kills it, you're fucked anyway |
| 15:01.51 | ectospasm | debianfan2439: iptables -A -d <IP address of mirror> -j ACCEPT |
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| 15:02.05 | ectospasm | debianfan2439: then `iptables -A OUTPUT -j DROP` |
| 15:02.07 | annadane | which you can't do *during the install*... |
| 15:02.08 | wasamasa | I remember some distro-specific bugs in package managers |
| 15:02.20 | ratrace | debianfan2439: also, here's something to inflame your paranoia further. even if you had DENY ALL packet filter in place, a kernel vuln in tcp stack could _still_ open you op for an RCE |
| 15:02.20 | wasamasa | they require of course that you connect to a compromised package archive |
| 15:03.22 | ratrace | ectospasm: and what about the INPUT chain? |
| 15:03.23 | debianfan2439 | ratrace and if i would have another computer with openbsd which is knowed to work good as firewall and then let debian connect through the openbsd firewall to the internet |
| 15:03.25 | ectospasm | Not sure that's the wisest idea, but that's one way to do it. |
| 15:03.29 | debianfan2439 | then it would be not a problem or |
| 15:03.36 | debianfan2439 | just if openbsd would also have bugs |
| 15:03.41 | ratrace | debianfan2439: it wouldn't change anything |
| 15:03.43 | wasamasa | openbsd still requires competency to be used correctly |
| 15:04.04 | wasamasa | out of the box it's not terribly useful either |
| 15:04.06 | debianfan2439 | maybe you are right i can not do this anyways |
| 15:04.14 | ratrace | firewalls don't prevent malware from getting through, they only filter packets and are useful to block off unused ports in case a service, malicious or otherwise, wants to listen on a port |
| 15:04.18 | wasamasa | some people go as far as telling me that it's actively user-hostile in the name of security |
| 15:04.21 | debianfan2439 | i will just install normally and hope nobody does compromise me at this time |
| 15:04.34 | wasamasa | there is no replacement for a well working brain.exe |
| 15:04.38 | wxb | FYI I mentioned some things about Windows's absence of SUMS. I just got muted in their chanel for that! True story. |
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| 15:04.52 | ratrace | that's why a "firewall" is a stupid name. it's a packet filter. now, there's a WAF, "Application FireWall" that's something completely different and more useful in blocking malware.... |
| 15:04.53 | ectospasm | ratrace: I assume the default would be `iptables -A INPUT -m state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT`, but IIRC that should already be in there by default. |
| 15:05.06 | ratrace | ectospasm: there is no default with iptables |
| 15:05.15 | wasamasa | especially not in the form of some malware protection promising you to solve all of your problems |
| 15:05.50 | *** join/#debian ellyjones (~ellyjones@chromium/dev/ellyjones) |
| 15:06.39 | ellyjones | hello debian folks! I am a chromium developer and I am curious if there is something preventing debian upgrading chromium past 76 (https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/chromium) |
| 15:07.00 | karlpinc | wxb: People will ignore you if your antagonistic. And especially if antagonastic about something you don't know much about. E.g. .debs are signed so sums are unnecessary. |
| 15:07.21 | annadane | are they? i tend to validate my images |
| 15:07.23 | debianfan2439 | is it useful to use full disk encryption for my new debian syste |
| 15:07.40 | ectospasm | debianfan2439: depends on your use case. |
| 15:07.44 | ratrace | ellyjones: yes, your mini-operating system lacking a good browser :) |
| 15:07.51 | wxb | karlpinc, I was muted though. Seems kinda surveillance-state extreme. |
| 15:07.53 | karlpinc | annadane: images yes, packages no. |
| 15:07.54 | ratrace | (aka "chromium") |
| 15:08.01 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: i see lots of questions recently. write them down, or whatever comes to your mind. research it later. and for things like the usb firmware you could read, say, the heiseticker (at least scroll through their security department), also there are a lot of blogs from competent people. your situation regarding this won't change as long as you don't have at least a basic understandment what's going on. |
| 15:08.03 | jelly | ellyjones: this is primarily an end-user focused channel. If you want to ask for showstoppers and maybe, dunno, offer help, try #debian-devel on irc.oftc.net (= irc.debian.org) |
| 15:08.04 | debianfan2439 | ectospasm i want to use the system for personall |
| 15:08.15 | ellyjones | jelly: got it - yes, I was hoping to offer help :) |
| 15:09.15 | ectospasm | debianfan2439: that is a very broad use case. full disk encryption(FDE) can be a hassle, and more work than its worth if the value of the system you're protecting isn't that high. |
| 15:09.30 | debianfan2439 | Ede|Popede i can not follow what you mean |
| 15:09.34 | wasamasa | it's useful as theft protection |
| 15:09.45 | *** part/#debian ellyjones (~ellyjones@chromium/dev/ellyjones) |
| 15:09.49 | ectospasm | My use case, for my laptop, is that FDE provides some protection for someone stealing it. |
| 15:09.55 | ratrace | ectospasm: it's literally a click of a checkbox in the installer |
| 15:10.05 | ratrace | assuming the user is fully aware of what FDE does and what it does NOT protect. |
| 15:10.34 | ectospasm | ratrace: I haven't installed Debian with FDE in a while, so I don't remember. |
| 15:10.57 | *** join/#debian c5DEV (~c5DEV@p5093184d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:10.57 | ectospasm | But you have to have a way to unlock it, and I'd be surprised if that's just a checkbox in the installer. |
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| 15:11.13 | ectospasm | Maybe it prompts you for the method, that's probably likely. |
| 15:11.20 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: you had a lot of questions and concerns regarding security. too much to answer it on irc, you definitely have to read on it later if you want useful answers which make sense. so even if you get a short answer NOW, do write it down and get informed on the web when you got your system running. |
| 15:11.22 | debianfan2439 | does fde mean also grub encryption |
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| 15:11.48 | debianfan2439 | Ede|Popede i will note the answers |
| 15:11.51 | ectospasm | debianfan2439: it can, depending on how you set it up. |
| 15:11.57 | ratrace | ectospasm: there's only one method supported, LUKS. yeah, it asks for the passphrase :) |
| 15:12.00 | debianfan2439 | Ede|Popede i mean i will copy the history |
| 15:12.17 | debianfan2439 | ectospasm is it possible to encrypt grup during the installation? |
| 15:12.18 | ectospasm | ratrace: so you can't supply a key file through the installer? Bummer. |
| 15:12.42 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay. So don't need the DE nor XFCE, jus the utils? |
| 15:12.46 | ectospasm | debianfan2439: I'm not familiar enough with Buster installation to be able to answer this question accurately. |
| 15:12.49 | ratrace | ectospasm: yeah I don't think you can |
| 15:13.02 | jhutchins_wk | debianfan2439: What makes you think a system you're installing has a public IP exposed to the internet and exploitable services running during install? |
| 15:13.03 | debianfan2439 | ectospasm is there a different in buster and stretch installtion ? |
| 15:13.05 | karlpinc | The point is, we are not here to provide compsci/security education but to help with specific problems. Plugging up the channel with generic information prevents other from getting the help they need. |
| 15:13.14 | ratrace | I mean it's still doable, if you manually prepare the LUKS container before the partitioning stage |
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| 15:13.23 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: the boot partition containing grub remains unencrypted as it needs to be read by your computer to boot |
| 15:13.32 | debianfan2439 | jhutchins it is just because i have a low knowledge and i didnt know it better |
| 15:13.37 | ectospasm | debianfan2439: again, I haven't used the Debian installer in quite a while. The last time I installed Debian through the installer was in Jessie (or earlier). |
| 15:13.38 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: there are rather involved ways around this |
| 15:13.44 | karlpinc | wxb: Right. Maybe not even the utils, although that's up to you. Depends on what the system is for. |
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| 15:13.58 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: it contains your kernel, too, so someone with physical access to your computer can mess with it |
| 15:14.03 | ratrace | wasamasa: altough /boot can be encrypted and the bios_boot grub stage can work with that |
| 15:14.12 | wxb | karlpinc, I'm doing the minimal install you recommended. |
| 15:14.18 | karlpinc | wxb: Got it. |
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| 15:14.23 | ratrace | *bios_grub |
| 15:14.32 | annadane | i do understand the questions. but do understand that nothing is ever truly secure, most people are fine with general best practices and common sense, unless you have 3 letter agencies after you |
| 15:14.52 | annadane | 'firewall' and 'antivirus' as necessity is really a windows thing |
| 15:14.57 | ectospasm | debianfan2439: I have had a system (I believe it was Arch) with FDE (including /boot partition), but I'm not sure that's possible now with the EFI partition having to be vfat. YMMV. |
| 15:15.03 | karlpinc | wxb: (Remember "tasksel" is the program to use to install huge hunks of debian. It's what the installer uses when it asks you the questions about what to install.) |
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| 15:17.32 | debianfan2439 | what is the first thing i should do on a fresh new installted debian system |
| 15:17.46 | colo-work | Smile upon it. |
| 15:18.02 | karlpinc | wxb: Looking at the tasksel choices, if you have a laptop you may as well install the laptop stuff. I don't know what they do but laptops can be picky and maybe some of that stuff is really really useful. |
| 15:18.14 | *** join/#debian tpo2 (~Tomas@109.70.118.174) |
| 15:18.27 | debianfan2439 | colo-work i mean in a security sense |
| 15:18.29 | karlpinc | debianfan2439: Everyone has s different list. |
| 15:19.07 | annadane | just avoid root when it's not necessary, don't do things you don't understand, avoid breaking debian (wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian) |
| 15:19.44 | annadane | subscribe to debian-announce@lists.debian.org and debian-security-announce@lists.debian.org, i personally use package-update-indicator to physically tell me about updates |
| 15:20.15 | annadane | sacrifice a virgin, and do a ritual dance |
| 15:20.34 | debianfan2439 | i did not know about the program i think it was not there in stretch version |
| 15:20.50 | debianfan2439 | i will install it on my system after i did install the updates |
| 15:20.51 | annadane | it was but it had a different name iirc |
| 15:21.20 | wxb | Oh. no. issues. |
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| 15:21.32 | debianfan2439 | works this also on tty console without desktop environment |
| 15:22.17 | wxb | I tied to go back in the menu to the install step. And now it's asking me to insert the media Debian. But it's still plugged in! |
| 15:22.53 | crivrc | annadane: that's a great page in the debian wiki, thanks! |
| 15:23.10 | annadane | if you know absolutely nothing about debian read that first |
| 15:23.18 | annadane | the rest of it is just adapting over time |
| 15:23.45 | karlpinc | wxb: How far did it get? Worse case, reboot and you can skip over the menu items if you're in "expert" mode and just continue from where you left off. |
| 15:23.47 | wxb | It's stuck now.... |
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| 15:24.30 | karlpinc | wxb: The vts probably have some information. |
| 15:24.40 | debianfan2439 | i think its only for graphical not command line if im right because there is a screenshot with a graphial desktop |
| 15:24.42 | karlpinc | wxb: There's a vt that shows the log. |
| 15:24.57 | wxb | Sigh. I don't get it. It was at the end of installing all the stuff and now it's stuck. |
| 15:25.25 | karlpinc | wxb: It was still installing packages, or it finished and you did stuff in the menu? |
| 15:25.51 | wxb | it was done... I think? I don't remember. But now I can't get past this step. |
| 15:26.34 | karlpinc | wxb: "stuck"? What does it say? |
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| 15:27.42 | wxb | karlpinc, /media/cdrom/: please insert the disk named "debian gnu/linux 10... |
| 15:28.03 | karlpinc | wxb: And the disk is in? Can you say "ok"? and move forward? |
| 15:29.02 | wasamasa | debianfan2439: what tool are you talking about? |
| 15:29.21 | wxb | karlpinc, I used a flashs drive... and it's in. |
| 15:29.59 | karlpinc | wxb: That is interesting, because it is not asking for a flash drive. Are you using the netinstall image? |
| 15:30.06 | Ede|Popede | [package-update-indicator] according to https://debianforum.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=172036 it replaces pk-update-icon in Buster, since that one depended on half of the gnome desktop packages |
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| 15:30.38 | annadane | eww |
| 15:30.39 | *** join/#debian thelastjedi__ (~quassel@222.210.155.71) |
| 15:30.47 | wxb | karlpinc, the full xfce one |
| 15:31.06 | wxb | karlpinc, Well. It's stuck. |
| 15:31.11 | karlpinc | wxb: It's like you told it to install from CD/DVD. Ah, you put the full xfce image onto a flash drive, right? |
| 15:31.22 | Ede|Popede | has 'apt-get update && apt-get upgrade' in the bash history, just a 'C-r & & <ENTER>' away :) |
| 15:31.57 | ratrace | I just "apt upd" and hit arrow up :) |
| 15:32.15 | ratrace | has ~/.inputrc rigged for that |
| 15:32.17 | wxb | karlpinc, Yeah. It's totally block up. |
| 15:32.35 | annadane | i get security emails all the time and i have no idea if i have those packages installed so i tend to just apt update && apt upgrade anyway, you can't dpkg -l this stuff because you might have libraries installed which are part of the update |
| 15:32.47 | karlpinc | wxb: (Better to use just the netinstall image. And.... I guess the cd images are designed to be put on CD.) Humm.... |
| 15:32.58 | jhutchins_wk | There is (or was) an image that was intended to boot the system and run the installer from a CD, for systems that would not boot from a CD. Asking for the CD is also a symptom we frequently see when people use unetbootin to create the boot media. |
| 15:33.01 | Ede|Popede | ratrace: nice one, let me see if i can adapt my automatism ;) |
| 15:33.18 | *** join/#debian dk (~dk@95-28-142-119.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 15:33.26 | wxb | So.... start over.... {tears} |
| 15:33.38 | karlpinc | wxb: What did you use to put the image onto the flash drive? |
| 15:33.43 | wxb | dd |
| 15:33.43 | karlpinc | wxb: No, you won't need to start over. |
| 15:33.52 | wxb | hard shut down? |
| 15:34.04 | karlpinc | wxb: Ok. Go into the vt that gives you a shell prompt. |
| 15:34.12 | debianfan2439 | wasamasa i was talking about the package-update-indicator but Ede|Popede said that its graphical tool so its answered |
| 15:34.12 | *** join/#debian vizius00 (vizius00@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/vizius00) |
| 15:34.29 | *** join/#debian resm (~ramon@213.red-83-56-59.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) |
| 15:34.29 | annadane | that's for desktops that *don't* have their own |
| 15:34.34 | annadane | i'm sure gnome has an update checker |
| 15:34.47 | debianfan2439 | and does tty has one also |
| 15:34.59 | annadane | shrug |
| 15:35.15 | wxb | vt? I cant access those... |
| 15:35.20 | karlpinc | !vt |
| 15:35.20 | dpkg | i heard vt is Virtual Terminal, like the console; change VTs using Alt+Left/Right or Alt+F1, Alt+F2 etc. To get from X to a VT, use Ctrl+Alt+F1 (and Alt+F7 to get back, most likely). You can also use "chvt" to switch VT. VT is also used to mean Intel VT-x or VT-d (virtualization support; the AMD counterpart is called AMD-V or Pacifica), ask me about <xve>. |
| 15:35.23 | annadane | most people can probably check for updates like once a week anyway, you're unlikely to get pwned in that time |
| 15:35.27 | *** join/#debian dk (~dk@95-28-142-119.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 15:35.45 | wasamasa | but what if the most dedicated hacker of all time decides to screw you over |
| 15:36.05 | karlpinc | wxb: Alt+F2 (etc) does not do anything? (or CTL+Alt+F2, etc.?) |
| 15:36.11 | annadane | also CVEs now are at the point of "this could maybe perhaps in theory just a hunch allow an attacker to run malicious code over ssh with port 9 quadrillion open with this specific configuation only when the moon is full" |
| 15:36.12 | greycat | what if you have an extremely exaggerated opinion of your importance |
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| 15:36.49 | debianfan2439 | oh okey annadane is it okey if i use a german mirror to update my system in sources.list or only deb.debian.org is the offical ? |
| 15:37.07 | annadane | hacking people is *hard*. a properly secured system (and debian has *good* defaults anyway) isn't likely to be cracked trivially |
| 15:37.15 | karlpinc | wxb: Still there? |
| 15:37.20 | wxb | karlpinc, nope, no luck |
| 15:37.21 | annadane | !buster sources.list |
| 15:37.21 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 15:37.24 | annadane | just follow that |
| 15:37.53 | karlpinc | wxb: Humm. You tried different F keys? |
| 15:37.58 | debianfan2439 | annadane i mean the mirror website if it is okay if i use debian.inf.tu-dresden.de for example |
| 15:38.05 | annadane | i'm sure it's fine |
| 15:38.07 | debianfan2439 | or is only deb.debian.org website the right website to update from |
| 15:38.11 | debianfan2439 | oh okey |
| 15:38.32 | annadane | hackers are going to be interested in servers and infrastructure, not your cat photos |
| 15:38.35 | wxb | F5 will give me a black screen... |
| 15:38.51 | *** part/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.120.116) |
| 15:38.58 | debianfan2439 | annadane but maybe my bank numbers .... |
| 15:39.07 | karlpinc | wxb: The others should then give you something too, right? |
| 15:39.12 | wxb | karlpinc, nope |
| 15:39.18 | annadane | sure, but i mean, you don't need to take excessive precaution unless you're a whistleblower type or whatever |
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| 15:39.43 | wxb | So hard shutdown? |
| 15:39.53 | debianfan2439 | you mean like edward norton |
| 15:40.15 | debianfan2439 | im not a whistleblowser |
| 15:40.17 | Ede|Popede | or Bild Leserreporter :P |
| 15:40.18 | karlpinc | wxb: Allright. You can hard-reboot. I'm not sure just how far you've gotten but the problem is that your installed (I think) /etc/apt/sources.list say that you're getting packages off of a cd. |
| 15:40.18 | debianfan2439 | blower* |
| 15:41.09 | annadane | ...yes. edward norton. |
| 15:41.16 | *** join/#debian millaus564578568 (~xdccMule@89.42.6.18) |
| 15:41.16 | annadane | also, there's always unattended upgrades |
| 15:41.17 | karlpinc | wxb: You can try to fix that by booting and going into rescue mode and then re-running the menu item after the "install stuff" step. Or... |
| 15:41.17 | millaus564578568 | Ciao a tutti :)) |
| 15:41.19 | millaus564578568 | hi all |
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| 15:41.32 | annadane | which you can set up if you don't want to do it manually |
| 15:41.55 | karlpinc | wxb: You can download the netinstall image and boot from that and just re-install the base system. Your partitions/LUKS/etc will all still be there. |
| 15:41.59 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: the server could be down for some reason. that's why having a generic entry which brings you to a mirror which is fine at that moment isn't a bad idea. |
| 15:42.15 | annadane | (the name you're looking for is 'snowden', not norton) |
| 15:42.24 | karlpinc | !tell wxb about firmware images |
| 15:42.24 | millaus564578568 | i created a webapp that create directory.... how can i set that directory will get write permission fro the group www-data |
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| 15:42.32 | millaus564578568 | i created a webapp that create directory.... how can i set that directory will get write permission fro the group www-data? |
| 15:42.51 | millaus564578568 | i created a webapp that create directory.... how can i set that directory will get write permission for the group www-data? |
| 15:43.02 | karlpinc | wxb: Using the netinstall image will be simpler. (And the download is rather small.) |
| 15:43.04 | debianfan2439 | annadane oh right norton is the actor and snowden is the right name |
| 15:43.06 | annadane | millaus564578568, stop. |
| 15:43.10 | annadane | we heard you the first time |
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| 15:44.27 | karlpinc | millaus564578568: You want to read-up on chmod and chgrp (or chown). See the debian reference manual at debian.org. It has a section on permissions etc. |
| 15:45.05 | karlpinc | millaus564578568: gnu.org also has good material in it's on-line "info" pages. |
| 15:45.11 | trek00 | millaus564578568: chgrp www-data path; chmod g+w path |
| 15:45.38 | wxb | karlpinc, So I can't pick up where it failed?? |
| 15:46.22 | karlpinc | wxb: I suspect you're pretty much installed and all that's left is setting up boot. But re-installing the minimal system from a netinstall images is quick and will fix your sources.list problem. That will pick up from where it failed. |
| 15:46.55 | wxb | karlpinc, I'll have to do all that paritioning again? |
| 15:47.07 | karlpinc | wxb: You can try to manually fix sources.list by booting into rescue mode and using an editor. Then "apt update". But that involves more than button pushing. |
| 15:47.12 | wxb | karlpinc, And should I do the /boot thing different? |
| 15:47.19 | karlpinc | wxb: No. Your partitioning and LUKS stuff is done. |
| 15:47.21 | annadane | debianfan2439, you know this thing that just happened where you downloaded a compromised image and everything went bad? remember that when you run debian. don't randomly install stuff from the internet. don't sudo bash | curl or whatever 'program developers' tell you to do |
| 15:47.50 | karlpinc | wxb: You'd only do the /boot partition if you really wanted to start over and redo. I'd leave it. |
| 15:47.53 | annadane | that probably isn't right, i forget the syntax of the thing you're not meant to do |
| 15:48.21 | wasamasa | curl | sudo bash |
| 15:48.27 | annadane | close enough |
| 15:48.31 | debianfan2439 | annadane it was not a image it was XAntiMalwareHorses against dangerous black super trojan horses ... but he did hose me obviously |
| 15:48.51 | debianfan2439 | i will never install something apart of something from the debian mirrors |
| 15:48.59 | annadane | well, regardless. like the rest of life, use common sense... but don't be afraid to do *anything* |
| 15:49.12 | debianfan2439 | except* |
| 15:49.24 | debianfan2439 | i did mean except not apart |
| 15:49.24 | karlpinc | wxb: The installer will see that you've got partitions (just like it did when you first installed, only those were the partitions you started with) and will let you continue the installation from there. |
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| 15:49.49 | wxb | karlpinc, The LUKS partitions are not showing up when I go through it again... |
| 15:50.09 | debianfan2439 | annadane you said that i dont need antivirus in debian and its a windows thing is this really right |
| 15:50.13 | karlpinc | wxb: So long as you don't mess with your existing partitions they will be there for you. (Although you will probably have to go into the LUKS partition to unlock it.) |
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| 15:50.32 | wxb | karlpinc, I can't see them though... |
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| 15:51.01 | karlpinc | wxb: You should be able to see the partition holding the LUKS stuff. What happens when you choose it? (Don't tell it to "write" anything.) |
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| 15:51.13 | annadane | debianfan2439, pretty much. |
| 15:51.30 | wxb | karlpinc, It is shown as 'do not use' |
| 15:51.34 | debianfan2439 | annadane what if im on a website and firefox does automatically download a virus |
| 15:51.47 | millaus564578568 | trek: i have to change everytyme permission ??? |
| 15:51.54 | millaus564578568 | trek00: i have to change everytyme permission ??? |
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| 15:52.06 | annadane | debianfan2439, there's this lovely thing called an 'adblocker'. |
| 15:52.15 | karlpinc | wxb: Isn't there some sort of button to press to go to a menu of all the installation choices? Or maybe the escape key or something? |
| 15:52.19 | annadane | i know, everyone wants to support content creators, but please don't use the internet without one |
| 15:52.25 | debianfan2439 | i have ublock origin like in tails i hope this is good |
| 15:52.27 | annadane | i recommend ublock origin, and check a bunch of filters |
| 15:52.30 | karlpinc | ... installation steps... |
| 15:53.06 | millaus564578568 | trek00: in vsftpd.conf i set always write with a 755.. is there a php.conf file where i set permission for all directory my web app will create ? |
| 15:53.07 | karlpinc | wxb: In any case you're using your cd installer image right now, right? |
| 15:53.08 | trek00 | millaus564578568: not, it's saved |
| 15:53.15 | *** join/#debian tomha (~tomha@98.142.213.35) |
| 15:53.22 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: depends. as an example, should you use youtube-dl some day you maybe want to get it from upstream. buster has 2019.01.17-1.1, bullseye 2019.09.28-1 as per pdo. but the homepage is mentioned in the package, so it should be fine. you only should be careful if they try to sell you shoes 3 years after the release on such a page ;) |
| 15:53.27 | debianfan2439 | annadane should i also install noscript |
| 15:53.36 | trek00 | millaus564578568: not, you should read about umask under php |
| 15:53.36 | wxb | karlpinc, Yep, but when I go to the install step, it can't find the LUKS volumes... |
| 15:53.53 | wxb | karlpinc, I'm still on the full install. |
| 15:53.59 | wxb | cause wifi ain't working |
| 15:54.11 | karlpinc | wxb: Then do you know how to use an editor to change text in the sources.list file? |
| 15:54.13 | millaus564578568 | trek00: it's saved for chgrp www-data path; chmod g+w path <--- path but for futere path.... |
| 15:54.21 | karlpinc | in general? |
| 15:54.25 | *** part/#debian acebrianjuan (~acebrianj@123.red-83-50-57.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) |
| 15:54.28 | wxb | karlpinc, I think I'm gooing to start over.... |
| 15:54.37 | annadane | some people do install noscript. personally i tend to just install ublock origin, https everywhere, decentraleyes, privacy badger. as far as i understand noscript/umatrix are more advanced and you have to fiddle with things... i probably wouldn't bother with them right off the bat i guess |
| 15:54.38 | wxb | karlpinc, Yes, I can do that. |
| 15:54.55 | karlpinc | wxb: Ok. then get to the vt with the shell prompt |
| 15:54.56 | debianfan2439 | Ede|Popede is youtube-dl also avaiable in debian ? |
| 15:55.13 | ratrace | I just run Firefox AppArmored. |
| 15:55.24 | wxb | no vt |
| 15:55.27 | annadane | debianfan2439, don't use the youtube-dl from the debian repos. it's going to get out of date really quickly |
| 15:55.27 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: that's what i said ;) only it gets updates all the time due to sites changing their APIs permanently. |
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| 15:56.08 | trek00 | millaus564578568: to setup the group on newly created files/directories you need to set the sticky bit on the parent directory; to setup the permission you need to set umask correctly |
| 15:56.09 | karlpinc | That is really wierd. All the installer images should let you get to a vt. |
| 15:56.13 | annadane | i use python3-venv for python packages like that, idk what i'd recommend to a relative newbie which is most pain-free |
| 15:56.28 | wxb | Start over I guess. So this time where do I boot boot? |
| 15:56.49 | debianfan2439 | so if not from the website then from where i should download the program then |
| 15:56.56 | karlpinc | wxb: Start over with the netinstall image (unoffical, with firmware). |
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| 15:57.04 | millaus564578568 | trek00: umask is in php5.conf file ? |
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| 15:57.39 | trek00 | millaus564578568: https://www.php.net/manual/en/function.umask.php |
| 15:57.46 | karlpinc | wxb: But it _should_ unlock the luks partition for you. At least in expert mode. You will need to load the modules for cryptsetup/luks and lvm. |
| 15:57.49 | debianfan2439 | is yt-dl the offical website for debian youtube-dl |
| 15:58.07 | karlpinc | wxb: Did you do expert mode now? |
| 15:58.22 | millaus564578568 | trek00: ok so there is not a general setting |
| 15:58.30 | millaus564578568 | trek00: thk u for help |
| 15:58.47 | karlpinc | wxb: In expert mode it asks about what modules to load. |
| 15:59.47 | trek00 | millaus564578568: i don't know about php, but probably you need to setup inside you code |
| 16:00.41 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: debian packages that piece of software which else has no relationship to it. 'apt show youtube-dl | less' ( i STRONGLY recommend 'less' in this particular case) and look for the 'Homepage:' line. |
| 16:01.07 | greycat | youtube-dl generally doesn't work after a few weeks (youtube changes their site), and you need a new upstream release periodically |
| 16:01.19 | debianfan2439 | it says less package is not installed |
| 16:01.25 | greycat | it's one of the things that you shouldn't even bother trying to use from Debian packages |
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| 16:02.02 | debianfan2439 | greycat why does debian team not care about the currency of this package |
| 16:02.02 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439, then > apt show youtube-dl | head -n 10 |
| 16:02.20 | Ede|Popede | there are 60k or so packages in buster |
| 16:02.32 | *** join/#debian m0u (~m0u@unaffiliated/m0u) |
| 16:02.33 | jelly | ,v youtube-dl |
| 16:02.34 | judd | Package: youtube-dl on amd64 -- stretch: 2017.05.18.1-1; stretch-backports: 2019.01.17-1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 2019.01.17-1.1; bullseye: 2019.09.28-1; sid: 2019.09.28-1; bullseye-multimedia: 2019.10.22-dmo1; buster-multimedia: 2019.10.22-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 2019.10.29-dmo1 |
| 16:03.05 | at0m | debianfan2439: get it from git. cron a youtube-dl -U for, say, weekly updates. |
| 16:03.31 | Ede|Popede | never did it, does it install properly into $HOME when run as user? |
| 16:04.01 | greycat | I only update it when it fails. |
| 16:04.38 | Ede|Popede | ditto. i had a oneliner in the past checking the redirect in the http header (it contains the release date, nice move) |
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| 16:08.01 | debianfan2439 | should i run youtube-dl with root privileges to get more power |
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| 16:08.20 | jelly | debianfan2439: absolutely yes. |
| 16:08.27 | wasamasa | lol |
| 16:08.56 | wasamasa | it's as if all the previous discussion has been for nothing |
| 16:09.19 | jelly | ascii stupid question, get a dumb ansi |
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| 16:09.48 | greycat | eventually you realize when a person is not going to listen to you |
| 16:09.57 | greycat | that's why me /ignore list is so large |
| 16:10.08 | wxb | Okay, I'm in with firmware iso. Experct mode... choose modules from CD? |
| 16:10.16 | karlpinc | youtube-dl is a python program so the latest version can easily be installed in a python virtual environment, and later discarded. |
| 16:10.36 | jelly | (usually we cater to users with all sorts of knowledge levels, but sometimes there's a sarcasm epidemic) |
| 16:10.41 | trek00 | debianfan2439: you should never run a network application as root |
| 16:11.02 | Ede|Popede | debianfan2439: do you use the chainsaw to cut the hair in your nose? |
| 16:12.19 | SerajewelKS | trek00: apt is a network application. checkmate. |
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| 16:12.32 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay. Chose that one to load modules. |
| 16:12.49 | wxb | lost here, now |
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| 16:14.55 | millaus564578568 | trek00: for samba user exist this kind of umask configuration ? |
| 16:14.55 | ratrace | well, pretty much every service daemon that binds to port <1000 has to, at least, start off as root... or you shell out some CAPs :) |
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| 16:15.10 | wxb | Choosing crypto-dm-modules... |
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| 16:18.26 | debianfan243923 | is debian more stabil then red hat |
| 16:18.39 | debianfan243923 | red hat enterprise linux* |
| 16:19.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1551] by debhelper |
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| 16:19.15 | greycat | are you KIDDING ME |
| 16:19.30 | greycat | he's changing the numbers in his stupid nick to dodge ignores |
| 16:19.32 | debianfan243923 | greycat does this mean yes or no |
| 16:19.42 | greycat | It means I have to use a glob in my ignore |
| 16:19.49 | debianfan243923 | oh i do not know how this happened |
| 16:19.52 | debianfan243923 | it was not intended |
| 16:20.16 | trek00 | SerajewelKS: luckily apt don't use root to connect to the network :) |
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| 16:20.59 | wasamasa | greycat: not everything is meant to drive your blood pressure levels up |
| 16:21.37 | greycat | showing up with 4 different nicks in a week is one of those things, though |
| 16:21.44 | SerajewelKS | not everything but pretty sure this guy is a troll looking at his message history |
| 16:21.53 | debianfan243923 | greycat the only name i did have here is debianfan2439 |
| 16:21.58 | wasamasa | I had such people at the hackerspace before |
| 16:22.03 | debianfan243923 | and i do not know how the numbers 23 did come to my name |
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| 16:22.27 | wasamasa | the conversations with them tend to be fruitless |
| 16:22.29 | debianfan243923 | you must confound me |
| 16:22.46 | debianfan243923 | with someone with the same issues or similar issues like i have |
| 16:23.24 | greycat | They're either a troll or a help vampire. |
| 16:23.34 | jelly | greycat, wasamasa: we have a #debian-offtopic for metaconversation and other non-support |
| 16:24.06 | debianfan243923 | is debian currently used in the international space station? |
| 16:24.08 | wxb | karlpinc, Just wondering if you're around / not busy. I think I just might redo the install because I'm kinda lost in expert mode here... |
| 16:24.12 | Ede|Popede | it's another connection now |
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| 16:25.07 | Ede|Popede | oho, used to be kbw, now italy |
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| 16:25.39 | trek00 | debianfan243923: yes! |
| 16:26.01 | debianfan243923 | trek00 how many computers in the iss are using debian? |
| 16:26.21 | trek00 | debianfan243923: 923 |
| 16:26.29 | debianfan243923 | oh sorry but this i can not believe |
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| 16:27.15 | imMute | debianfan243923: more than 0, less than 923. You'd have to ask NASA for an exact number. |
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| 16:30.58 | debianfan243923 | imMute i thought that maybe someone here is from the nasa and can help me with the answer |
| 16:31.15 | annadane | anyway, this is entering #debian-offtopic areas |
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| 16:31.58 | debianfan243923 | annadane okey then i will stop here i thought it is a debian question |
| 16:32.30 | wxb | ratrace, So, I'm starting the whole process again, where should I put the boot think you talked about before? |
| 16:34.26 | karlpinc | wxb: It may "just happen". If not, then you need rescue mode to put it in the grub config. (/etc/default/grub on squeeze, then "update-grub") |
| 16:34.50 | millaus564578568 | is there a umask setting for samba give user create directory 775 ? |
| 16:35.52 | trek00 | millaus564578568: https://askubuntu.com/questions/210808/set-umask-set-permissions-and-set-acl-but-samba-isnt-using-those/512354#512354 |
| 16:36.19 | karlpinc | wxb: Add the line: GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK=y |
| 16:36.56 | greycat | In smb.conf there's "create mask = 0775" |
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| 16:37.03 | greycat | and "directory mask = 0775" |
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| 16:38.41 | millaus564578568 | don't work |
| 16:38.41 | millaus564578568 | don't work |
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| 16:39.38 | trek00 | millaus564578568: do you have reloaded samba? service samba force-reload |
| 16:39.50 | millaus564578568 | trek00: yes |
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| 16:40.00 | millaus564578568 | trek00: /etc/init.d/samba restart |
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| 16:40.11 | greycat | which version of Debian are you using? |
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| 16:40.18 | millaus564578568 | bustere |
| 16:40.22 | millaus564578568 | debian 10 |
| 16:40.24 | revolutionary | hello all. Is there any way to use detached header key in a USB drive on UEFI computer on Debian 10 Buster? Thanks |
| 16:40.36 | millaus564578568 | no sry |
| 16:40.58 | revolutionary | i don't want to disable Secure Boot because as i learned from the internet Debian 10 supports Secure Boot |
| 16:41.46 | millaus564578568 | Linux srv02 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.39-1+deb8u2 (2017-03-07) i686 GNU/Linux |
| 16:42.09 | millaus564578568 | greycat: Linux srv02 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.39-1+deb8u2 (2017-03-07) i686 GNU/Linux |
| 16:42.27 | greycat | millaus564578568: unless you went out of your way to replace systemd with sysvinit, you should get used to one of the non-deprecated ways to manage services. Either "systemctl restart smbd" or something involving the "service" command. |
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| 16:42.55 | greycat | millaus564578568: that's a kernel from Debian 8, by the way. Are you sure you're running Debian 10 with a Debian 8 kernel? |
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| 16:43.24 | millaus564578568 | greycat: Linux srv02 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.39-1+deb8u2 (2017-03-07) i686 GNU/Linux this is im sure |
| 16:43.48 | dvs | millaus564578568, and what does cat /etc/debian_version say ? |
| 16:44.30 | millaus564578568 | dvs: 8.7 |
| 16:44.47 | jelly | millaus564578568: that's Debian 8, jessie, oldoldstable |
| 16:44.52 | greycat | OK, Debian 8 (jessie), but it still uses systemd by default, and you should get used to systemctl. |
| 16:45.31 | greycat | You're also 4 point releases out of date on jessie. |
| 16:45.35 | revolutionary | greycat how can i switch from systemd to systemctl on Debian 10? |
| 16:45.36 | jelly | has partial security support by LTS team and that particular machine seems to have been unpatched for more than 2 years now |
| 16:45.54 | jelly | !jessie-lts |
| 16:45.54 | dpkg | Security support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures will receive additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until around 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total. See https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information |
| 16:46.16 | greycat | revolutionary: systemd is the name of the init system. systemctl is the command you use to do most of the things you do with it. |
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| 16:46.32 | greycat | revolutionary: the point was, don't use /etc/init.d/foo any more |
| 16:46.58 | trek00 | you should use service foo instead, it is compatible with any init system |
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| 16:47.01 | revolutionary | greycat i coulnd't get exactly. |
| 16:47.02 | jelly | revolutionary: the "service" command will work on both sysvinit and systemd installations |
| 16:47.18 | revolutionary | what shouldn't i use anymore? |
| 16:47.28 | jelly | calling an init script directly |
| 16:47.31 | greycat | 12:40 millaus564578568> trek00: /etc/init.d/samba restart |
| 16:47.43 | greycat | That's what you shouldn't use any more. |
| 16:47.53 | revolutionary | i got it now |
| 16:47.55 | jelly | while Debian has provisions to for that to still work, it's really an ugly workaround |
| 16:48.19 | revolutionary | do you have any idea about my LUKS project? |
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| 16:51.39 | jmd | Does anyone know what the issue is getting gettext 0.20 into debian? |
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| 16:52.04 | greycat | jmd: you'd have to ask the maintainer |
| 16:52.53 | greycat | #934738 |
| 16:52.54 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/934738 in gettext (open): «gettext 0.20.1 available»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-08-14; last modified: 2019-10-09. |
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| 16:56.09 | cinesc | hi |
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| 16:58.13 | cinesc | are these commands fully compatible with debian? |
| 16:58.15 | cinesc | https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000029051/processors.html |
| 16:58.58 | trek00 | cinesc: you should install microcode from debian, like intel-microcode or amd64-microcode |
| 16:59.12 | greycat | ,info intel-microcode |
| 16:59.13 | judd | Package intel-microcode (non-free/admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Processor microcode firmware for Intel CPUs. Version: 3.20190618.1; Size: 1892.9k; Installed: 2421k; Homepage: https://github.com/intel/Intel-Linux-Processor-Microcode-Data-Files |
| 16:59.20 | greycat | Note that it's in the non-free section. |
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| 17:01.06 | cinesc | is the free alternative the OS part only? |
| 17:02.35 | trek00 | !non-free |
| 17:02.35 | dpkg | [non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>. |
| 17:02.41 | cinesc | hmm |
| 17:03.10 | cinesc | This suddenly became easier than I thought to find |
| 17:03.29 | cinesc | which one offers more protection? |
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| 17:04.24 | trek00 | cinesc: debian packages will be updated via apt |
| 17:04.36 | trek00 | cinesc: use them if they are here |
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| 17:05.22 | cinesc | ok |
| 17:05.59 | cinesc | this looks like the same page as I looked at yesterday |
| 17:06.18 | cinesc | just install or do I need to reboot after it? |
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| 17:07.50 | trek00 | cinesc: just install and then echo 1 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/microcode/reload |
| 17:07.58 | cinesc | ok |
| 17:08.41 | cinesc | as root or not as root? |
| 17:08.47 | trek00 | cinesc: as root |
| 17:08.51 | cinesc | ok |
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| 17:09.23 | trek00 | cinesc: then verify if it's reloaded: dmesg | grep microcode |
| 17:10.43 | cinesc | [ 0.601037] MDS: Vulnerable: Clear CPU buffers attempted, no microcode |
| 17:10.51 | cinesc | [ 2.267452] microcode: sig=0x306a9, pf=0x10, revision=0x16 |
| 17:11.02 | cinesc | [ 2.267503] microcode: Microcode Update Driver: v2.2. |
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| 17:11.11 | cinesc | [90620.929187] platform microcode: firmware: failed to load intel-ucode/06-3a-09 (-2) |
| 17:11.37 | cinesc | did something go wrong? |
| 17:11.47 | trek00 | cinesc: i don't know, if it is installed correctly, you can try to reboot |
| 17:11.53 | cinesc | ok |
| 17:12.11 | cinesc | should I check with the vulnerability check tool first? |
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| 17:12.43 | trek00 | cinesc: i don't know sorry |
| 17:12.57 | cinesc | is it worth testing? |
| 17:13.38 | cinesc | I will test to see if anything changed already |
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| 17:14.25 | trek00 | cinesc: you could check with cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/* |
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| 17:14.43 | cinesc | something new happened |
| 17:15.10 | cinesc | it shows green on five instead of four |
| 17:15.18 | cinesc | out of thirteen |
| 17:15.45 | cinesc | gonna reboot this machine then |
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| 17:18.31 | cinesc | it did do something I have been looking for |
| 17:18.40 | cinesc | eleven out of ten |
| 17:18.52 | cinesc | eleven out of thirteen* |
| 17:19.08 | trek00 | good :) |
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| 17:19.46 | cinesc | feels good to have achieved something without giving up despite my shortcomings |
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| 17:33.19 | wxb | Okay. So redid the install. |
| 17:33.46 | wxb | Got through the whole thing with the full XFCE DE install. But |
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| 17:34.33 | wxb | Now when I go to reboot, it starts Windows automatically. And if I go to select debian in the menu, it gives me a text grub> line. Does this mean that the boot thing failed? |
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| 17:35.32 | trek00 | wxb: probably, but what grub said? |
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| 17:36.11 | wxb | GNU GRUB version 2.O2...... Minimal BASH-like ...... grub> |
| 17:36.15 | *** part/#debian muAdmDev (~mu@193.158.65.130) |
| 17:36.37 | trek00 | wxb: it seems grub was left unconfigured |
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| 17:36.51 | wxb | trek00, Oh no. |
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| 17:36.58 | wxb | trek00, How can I fix that? |
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| 17:38.43 | trek00 | wxb: it's the same issue you had before reinstalling? |
| 17:39.06 | wxb | trek00, I don't think so... that was that the installer wouldn't finish. |
| 17:39.14 | wxb | So I restarted it all and did it over. |
| 17:40.18 | trek00 | wxb: did you noticed some error during installation? |
| 17:40.51 | wxb | trek00, Nope.... but I'm pretty shot after a day at this... |
| 17:41.05 | Lope | ratrace, is it possible to execute a wget command when the initramfs has brought up the network? |
| 17:41.30 | wxb | trek00, Could this be the boot issue? |
| 17:42.08 | trek00 | wxb: reinstalling grub is not a really simple process, you can read something about it on https://wiki.debian.org/GrubEFIReinstall |
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| 17:43.05 | wxb | trek00, Oh dear. It never ends... I started this 10 hours ago... |
| 17:43.18 | Latr_work | Guys what happens when you have installed sid packages into stable? |
| 17:43.25 | Habbie | !frankendebian |
| 17:43.25 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 17:43.30 | Habbie | Latr_work, ^ that |
| 17:43.45 | Latr_work | right |
| 17:44.31 | Latr_work | I guess I am gonna have to solve the dependencies manually than |
| 17:44.42 | Habbie | that does not make things better |
| 17:44.44 | wxb | trek00, So this is definately a grub issue and a misplaced boot think during the manual partitioning and install? |
| 17:44.45 | Habbie | what is your goal? |
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| 17:44.59 | Latr_work | buy getting rid of the sid ones and build them from source like for backported pkgs |
| 17:45.21 | Latr_work | Habbie: my goal is to have Mesa 19.X on buster |
| 17:45.28 | Latr_work | which I achieved that using sid packages |
| 17:45.38 | Habbie | why not just run sid then? |
| 17:45.53 | dvs | Habbie, because he's already running sid now? |
| 17:45.55 | Latr_work | but now I have few deps issue and I do not want to reinstall them |
| 17:46.17 | Latr_work | dvs: sid for mesa and a bunch of libs? |
| 17:46.20 | Habbie | dvs, how do you know? |
| 17:46.31 | Latr_work | I could purge them all and wont even lose X... |
| 17:46.37 | Latr_work | how am I running sid? |
| 17:47.03 | dvs | Latr_work, it depends on the "bunch of libs" that the packages installed. |
| 17:47.08 | greycat | If you installed any dynamically linked program from sid, it almost certainly brought in sid's libc6, at which point you are running sid. |
| 17:47.12 | Habbie | right |
| 17:47.13 | dvs | namely libc6 |
| 17:47.39 | jelly | libc6 isn't anything special, it's just a rather common dependency for binary packages |
| 17:47.44 | Latr_work | I will double check that tonight at home |
| 17:47.54 | Lope | I removed my md0, so now my md's start from md1. Is it possible to reset them to start from zero? |
| 17:48.52 | Lope | can I just change the md numbers in /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf |
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| 17:49.14 | jhutchins_wk | Latr_work: If you need sid packages, you can /msg dpkg ssb for instructions on how to build them for buster. Installing them directly usually means doing a clean system reinstall to recover. |
| 17:49.28 | Latr_work | so are you guys saying that resolving the deps to buster if I pulled libc6 from sid wont be possible? |
| 17:49.51 | wxb | How can I isolate the issue between grub and boot? |
| 17:50.07 | Latr_work | jhutchins_wk: I honestly never knew about it |
| 17:50.35 | Latr_work | I mean I never had to mess with sid repos on my server, and is my first ever debian distro |
| 17:52.03 | kadiro | what is the meaning of "Bad substitution" trying to use a script when login, i tried to add #/bin/sh or #/bin/bash but that will not execute the script but only show "Complete" (something like that) |
| 17:52.14 | greycat | Those shebangs are missing the bangs. |
| 17:52.28 | dvs | kadiro, #!/bin/sh |
| 17:52.31 | greycat | Do you know what a shebang without a shebang is? It's a comment. |
| 17:52.32 | wxb | basically I dual-boot installed Debian beside Windows and now it won't boot in Debian, but a get a grubish thing via the boot settings... |
| 17:52.34 | kadiro | I forget to say that the same script work fine in xubuntu session |
| 17:52.52 | kadiro | dvs, yeah both not working |
| 17:52.54 | greycat | When you run a script with a malformed shebang from an interactive shell, the results depend on which shell you're in. |
| 17:53.01 | kadiro | sh and bash i mean |
| 17:53.07 | greycat | Fix. The. Shebangs. |
| 17:53.08 | greycat | NOW. |
| 17:53.30 | kadiro | greycat, it is |
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| 17:54.18 | kadiro | #!/bin/sh or #!/bin/bash ==> both gives "Complete" |
| 17:54.27 | jhutchins_wk | Latr_work: Yes, well, a learning experience then. Experience is proportional to data destroyed. |
| 17:54.36 | greycat | You don't even know which LANGUAGE you wrote them in!? |
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| 17:55.23 | kadiro | greycat, i prefer bash, no idea how sh work |
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| 17:55.27 | jhutchins_wk | kadiro: You might consider pastebining the actual script. What output do you expect? |
| 17:55.36 | greycat | If you wrote it in bash, then use #!/bin/bash |
| 17:56.04 | kadiro | greycat, it gives only that the script Complete nothing rung inside |
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| 17:56.21 | greycat | Make sure the script has +x permissions, and run it by typing its pathname (./myscript if it's in the current working directory), or its basename if it's in a directory in PATH. |
| 17:57.02 | kadiro | jhutchins_wk, it is just a simple script that have: sleep 10s than executing conky |
| 17:57.16 | trek00 | wxb: it seems to me that efi was setup correctly, grub was installed but left unconfigured, but i'm a bit busy now and can't help much |
| 17:57.43 | kadiro | If i remove the shebang thing the script work but it is kind of ignoring the function inside it |
| 17:57.49 | wxb | trek00, Okay. Thanks for the link - I'll try to not break things more! |
| 17:58.16 | greycat | ... |
| 17:58.37 | greycat | I'm going to wait until you actually present some details, or ask a question that a person can answer. |
| 17:59.22 | kadiro | greycat, if i add #!/bin/bash or #!/bin/sh the script show only the word "Complete" |
| 17:59.27 | greycat | First it has "Bad substitution" errors, then it has "Complete" as its only output, and apparently that's not desired. Then it depends on which system you run it on. Then it has only two commands. Then it works. Then it has a function inside it. |
| 17:59.42 | kadiro | without that it work but ignore the line that have the function |
| 18:00.05 | greycat | Every time you say something it's either a repetition of the inane tripe you already typed, or it's an infuriating new reversal. |
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| 18:00.31 | greycat | Show the script, then show yourself running it and its output. |
| 18:01.25 | kadiro | greycat, you said add the shebang, i did tell you what happen when i do: result ==> Complete <<== I don't understand from where that word come |
| 18:01.50 | kadiro | greycat, i will change things inside it and give you the link |
| 18:01.52 | greycat | Here's an example. http://paste.wooledge.org/297 |
| 18:01.56 | humpled | we don't understand where or how you read the script |
| 18:01.59 | humpled | erm, ran |
| 18:02.08 | greycat | Note that I showed the script, and then I showed HOW I RAN IT, and I showed its output. |
| 18:02.13 | trek00 | wxb: this can help you better https://www.debian.wayoflinux.com/installing/post-install/fix-common-issues/reinstall-grub |
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| 18:02.51 | tjt263 | hi, where can i get old, superseded, software packages from the era of squeeze/6.0 ? i can't find anything later than wheezy/7 on debian.org |
| 18:03.06 | greycat | !snapshot |
| 18:03.07 | dpkg | http://snapshot.debian.org/ is an archive of almost all Debian packages uploaded since 2005, including those removed from the official archives because they were very buggy, unusable, broken, vulnerable or in some way non-free. This service replaces snapshot.debian.net. http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100412 |
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| 18:06.26 | tjt263 | ah, excellent. cheers m8 |
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| 18:13.23 | wxb | Okay. Followed those steps trek00 Up to the where to install GRUB part... I'm sure where to put it seeing as I have LUKS ... |
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| 18:13.57 | wxb | Should I just put this on /dev/sda?? |
| 18:14.12 | jhutchins_wk | wxb: Correct |
| 18:14.19 | wxb | My root system is in /dev/vg/other |
| 18:14.27 | kadiro | greycat, https://termbin.com/ecff |
| 18:14.35 | wxb | And I think that Windows in in /dev/sda... |
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| 18:15.27 | wxb | There is /dev/mapper/sda5_crypt... So putting it in sda5 should be safe? |
| 18:15.46 | wxb | How do I avoid writing over either the Windows or the Debian install. |
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| 18:16.01 | wxb | jhutchins_wk, Hmmm. Even though I used LUKS? |
| 18:16.06 | wxb | And am dual-booting? |
| 18:17.40 | greycat | kadiro: How many lies have you told. "The script is just sleep 10s and then conky." LIE. "The script contains a function." LIE. |
| 18:18.05 | kadiro | greycat, it is not like that? |
| 18:18.16 | greycat | The script -- I'm assuming the thing you pasted is the script -- is a disaster. It is basically wrong in every conceivable way. You hit a HUGE number of the bash pitfalls. |
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| 18:18.38 | greycat | Oh, wait, there *is* a function buried in the middle of it. |
| 18:18.52 | kadiro | myf is an function |
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| 18:19.09 | greycat | So, yes, there's a function in it. Very hard to spot because it's not up at the top and surrounded by blank lines and indented. You know, like a normal person would do. |
| 18:19.17 | kadiro | that's were the bad subtition things come |
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| 18:19.37 | wxb | The options are /dev/dm-1 ; /dev/dm-2 ; /dev/mapper/sda5_crypt ; /dev/sda1 ; /dev/sda2 ; /dev/sda3 ; /dev/sda4 ; /dev/sda5 ; /dev/sdb1 ; /dev/sdb2 ; /dev/vg/other ; /dev/vg/swap ; something about RAID ; something about not using root file system. Which is the one? |
| 18:19.40 | greycat | The script is a DISASTER. It is so wrong that I refuse to even critique it. |
| 18:19.42 | Ether_Man | That script has my eyes bleeding >_< |
| 18:19.45 | jelly | dpkg, tell tjt263 about archive.debian.org |
| 18:19.46 | greycat | clears it from his terminal |
| 18:19.53 | greycat | ignores the source of the pain |
| 18:20.05 | kadiro | greycat, ok i see |
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| 18:20.40 | kadiro | greycat, the function itself got it from bash channel |
| 18:21.00 | kadiro | just to make things clear |
| 18:21.23 | humpled | crikey |
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| 18:21.30 | kadiro | the script work in xubuntu but not in debian session, dunno what is the difference |
| 18:22.20 | humpled | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:23.30 | wxb | If you have any other links I can try to follow those too... I'm using this one that was sent to me https://www.debian.wayoflinux.com/installing/post-install/fix-common-issues/reinstall-grub |
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| 18:25.41 | kadiro | I got an idea i will try to source the bashrc as it have the same function and works from terminal |
| 18:27.05 | jhutchins_wk | wonders why you would launch a gui element with a script |
| 18:27.06 | humpled | is this all just to run conky? |
| 18:27.39 | kadiro | no , the conky part is fine but the function have something wrong |
| 18:27.56 | wxb | This makes it look like grub should be on /dev/sda1. But I think Windows in there. What can I do? |
| 18:28.09 | kadiro | jhutchins_wk, it is a startup when i login |
| 18:28.36 | Ether_Man | Hm. Just saying but the reason it doesn't work, could be the indentation errors? There's like 0 indentations here and at least python is super picky about that and it at least calls a python script in there |
| 18:28.41 | kadiro | anyway i will test that idea and tell you if something happen |
| 18:28.55 | greycat | Bash and sh don't care about indentation. |
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| 18:29.07 | kadiro | it could be Ether_Man |
| 18:29.08 | greycat | Bash and sh *programmers* should, though. |
| 18:29.25 | Ether_Man | greycat, right, but if it calls a python script, and the python script is in as poor condition |
| 18:29.26 | kadiro | let me try |
| 18:29.38 | greycat | Fair point. The errors could be coming from that. |
| 18:30.51 | humpled | and what desktop/window manager is running it |
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| 18:31.17 | humpled | there's more than one question here, and the first one is 'Why?' |
| 18:31.25 | greycat | I asked them to show the script, to show them running the script, and to show its output. I got something that might have been the script, possibly, except there was nothing indicating its name or pathname. |
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| 18:31.45 | kadiro | mission failed |
| 18:31.51 | greycat | And, well, I already gave my opinion on the script. I suggest fire, and lots of it. |
| 18:31.54 | kadiro | it say source: not found |
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| 18:32.05 | greycat | I don't think any part of it can be salvaged for any purpose. |
| 18:32.26 | wxb | How can I improve my question here, or where could I look for ressources on how to fix this? |
| 18:32.50 | kadiro | greycat, I have the same function in bashrc and it work without problem, just wondering why outside the terminal it fail |
| 18:33.26 | humpled | i would scrap it too |
| 18:33.36 | humpled | redesign! |
| 18:34.33 | trek00 | wxb: you should find your root partition and install on it |
| 18:35.32 | kadiro | got another idea using crontab but not sure if crontab doesn't understand the bash functions things |
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| 18:35.46 | trek00 | wxb: you are trying to do a complex setup (dual boot + encrypted root): may be you should try at first a simple dual boot (without encryption) and then add encryption |
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| 18:36.45 | wxb | trek00, Ah. I did ask that question a few hours back and was advised to do LUKs during the install... |
| 18:37.08 | wxb | trek00, If I put grub on the root partition, how will it run? |
| 18:37.17 | wxb | seeing as root is encyrpted. |
| 18:37.58 | trek00 | wxb: yes but, i think it would be simpler to understand how to configure it properly and then do again installation with encryption too |
| 18:38.17 | wxb | It's been 11 hours, I need to finish. |
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| 18:38.38 | trek00 | wxb: if you have an encrypted root, grub should reside on a separate /boot partition if i remember correctly |
| 18:39.00 | wxb | trek00, Okay. That is what I was thinking. And what ratrace said earlier. |
| 18:39.03 | wxb | Cool. |
| 18:39.06 | kadiro | I give up, may be i will try another scripting language |
| 18:39.33 | wxb | I just don't know what to choose because I have to avoid the Windows partitions and the encrpted partitions... |
| 18:39.59 | wxb | karlpinc, If you have any ideas here they are more than welcome - I'm at the critical stage :) |
| 18:41.27 | wxb | I'm going insane. |
| 18:41.29 | trek00 | wxb: it's the encrypted root a requirement? |
| 18:41.47 | wxb | wxb, I think so in a regular LUKS set up it sure is. |
| 18:42.42 | trek00 | wxb: but do you actually need encrypted partitions? this complicates your setup |
| 18:43.25 | *** join/#debian ska (~ska@unaffiliated/ska) |
| 18:43.52 | ska | Iv scoured google, but I can't understand why I don't have any virtual consoles. |
| 18:44.00 | ska | I run XDM + icewm |
| 18:45.17 | trek00 | ska: ctrl-alt-F2 does nothing? |
| 18:45.25 | wxb | I tried putting it on /dev/sda5 No luck. |
| 18:45.35 | wxb | Why is this so difficult! |
| 18:45.55 | wxb | I can't be the first person to do a dual install with LUKS. |
| 18:46.10 | trek00 | wxb: do you actually need encrypted partitions? |
| 18:46.13 | wxb | yes |
| 18:46.21 | dvs | wxb, maybe not but it is uncommon |
| 18:46.48 | trek00 | wxb: open a shell from the rescue cd |
| 18:46.56 | trek00 | wxb: and do fdisk -l /dev/sda |
| 18:47.09 | trek00 | wxb: this will describe partition types and sizes |
| 18:47.37 | jhutchins_wk | wxb: grub needs to be installed on the device where your BIOS expects to find the bootloader. |
| 18:47.45 | ska | trek00: Its puts me into a dark screen, but I don't get a login. I verified that getty's are running. |
| 18:48.08 | ska | trek00: i can get back to ctrl-alt-f7 xorg. |
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| 18:49.08 | wxb | bash is assuming my keyboard is US... |
| 18:49.12 | ska | trek00: After a while i get a "no input on ***" message. |
| 18:49.33 | trek00 | ska: in text mode? |
| 18:49.43 | jhutchins_wk | ska: What release are you on? |
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| 18:50.46 | greycat | Under systemd, Ctrl-Alt-F2 should take you to tty2, and this should cause a getty to spawn on tty2 and prompt for login. The getty will NOT have been running until you did this, unless you had previously been on tty2 during this boot. |
| 18:51.47 | greycat | I just verified it now, in fact, under buster: ps -ef | grep getty showed none, until I did C-A-F2, then ran the grep again, and voila. Now there's a getty. |
| 18:51.52 | wxb | trek00, Okay. did that shell command. |
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| 18:51.57 | wxb | trek00, I have output : |
| 18:52.00 | greycat | root 17132 1 0 14:51 tty2 00:00:00 /sbin/agetty -o -p -- \u --noclear tty2 linux |
| 18:52.10 | wxb | sda1 : EFI system |
| 18:52.16 | greycat | This is all the default stuff. I made no changes to it. |
| 18:52.22 | wxb | sda2 Microsoft reserved |
| 18:52.34 | wxb | sda3 Microsoft basic data |
| 18:52.47 | wxb | sda4 Windows recovery environment |
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| 18:52.56 | wxb | sda5 Linux filesystem. |
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| 18:53.23 | wxb | Can give start and end and size if needed. |
| 18:53.27 | trek00 | wxb: it seems you missed to create a separate boot partition |
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| 18:53.38 | wxb | trek00, Oh. Dear. |
| 18:53.43 | wxb | How should I do that. |
| 18:54.04 | wxb | I left 1G of freespace in sda3 |
| 18:54.07 | wxb | could I take that? |
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| 18:54.32 | wxb | Also, I just wrote GRUB to sda5, is that an issue? Did I erase my system? |
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| 18:54.56 | trek00 | wxb: yes you can, but i think it would be simpler to do again the installation at this point |
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| 18:55.31 | wxb | trek So I could, in theory go into sda3, resize out 500mb and stick grub in there? |
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| 18:55.41 | wxb | But sda5 is not damaged? |
| 18:55.57 | trek00 | wxb: and again: encrypted root is a beautiful feature, but it's not that simple to do without a good experience on that |
| 18:56.42 | wxb | I've come this far. If all I need is a boot section, I can try to do that, but not sure how. |
| 18:57.10 | ska | jhutchins_wk: Im 10.1 |
| 18:57.29 | trek00 | wxb: i suggest to do again the installation, with a separate boot partition (500mb is ok) |
| 18:57.45 | ska | trek00: Its the monitor's own report. |
| 18:57.48 | trek00 | wxb: do a minimal installation so you can try again and again without too much time |
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| 18:58.05 | wxb | trek00, Are there more details on that so I don't mess up again? |
| 18:58.09 | trek00 | ska: what graphic card do you have? |
| 18:58.12 | greycat | ska: is there anything special about your system that would cause oddities with the init system, the console, etc.? Is it a virtual machine, have you replaced systemd with an alternative, etc. |
| 18:59.00 | wxb | trek00, But that machine doesn't have working wifi, so I'd rather limit the packages I'll have to put in for now... |
| 18:59.24 | wxb | Well here goes for a third install. Shit. |
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| 18:59.49 | ska | trek00: gforce 8800 |
| 18:59.58 | wxb | Anything else I should know before having to do a fourth one? |
| 19:00.17 | trek00 | wxb: may be this help https://xo.tc/setting-up-full-disk-encryption-on-debian-9-stretch.html |
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| 19:00.27 | wxb | trek00, thx |
| 19:00.28 | ska | greycat: not that I know of... |
| 19:00.49 | ska | greycat: I have 2 monitors, |
| 19:00.51 | jhutchins_wk | !ig |
| 19:00.51 | dpkg | The Installation Guide for Debian 10 "Buster" can be found at https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/installmanual . See also <errata> and <buster release notes>. |
| 19:01.01 | jhutchins_wk | wxb: You might want to read that. |
| 19:01.12 | jhutchins_wk | wxb: No, not sda5, /dev/sda |
| 19:02.29 | cinesc | Is there a cpu frequency tweaker for kde? |
| 19:02.34 | ska | trek00 greycat: http://paste.debian.net/1112063/ |
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| 19:02.59 | ska | Is output of 'ps aux | grep tty' |
| 19:03.04 | trek00 | wxb: as you do not want to do automatic partitioning, check how it partitioned his disk: https://xo.tc/images/debian-stretch-18-partition-disks.png |
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| 19:03.12 | Miles8of9 | is 8gb usb drive enough to burn debian dvd 1 ? |
| 19:03.17 | cinesc | if you want to do an "overclock" on your cpu |
| 19:03.29 | greycat | a DVD is like 4.7 GB, so yes, it should be |
| 19:03.31 | abrotman | a DVD can only be 4.7GB |
| 19:03.33 | wxb | trek00, Yeah, thanks. Should I go in with a gparted live flsh drive? |
| 19:03.38 | Miles8of9 | ok ty |
| 19:03.59 | trek00 | wxb: this is the most important part: you need a not-encrypted /boot and an encrypted volume with inside root partition and swap |
| 19:04.15 | wxb | trek00, Okay. Thanks for hightlighting that. |
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| 19:04.56 | trek00 | wxb: you should do the partitioning with the debian installer |
| 19:05.13 | wxb | trek00, Even the resizing? |
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| 19:05.33 | wxb | I have to resize sda3 to pull some space away from Windows. |
| 19:05.53 | trek00 | wxb: you can make linux partition smaller |
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| 19:06.04 | trek00 | wxb: i don't know how to resize windows partitions well |
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| 19:09.37 | His_Dudeness__ | Hey everybody |
| 19:09.37 | His_Dudeness__ | I am tying to use multiple displays. |
| 19:09.37 | His_Dudeness__ | And it works so far. But it mirrors the displays and it shouldn't! |
| 19:09.37 | His_Dudeness__ | I would like two different displays. |
| 19:09.37 | His_Dudeness__ | I tried xrandr and installed tweaks. But both did't work like it should. |
| 19:09.37 | *** kick/#debian [His_Dudeness__!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (flood) |
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| 19:11.18 | His_Dudeness__ | If i start up displays he seems to ditect only one display. |
| 19:11.18 | His_Dudeness__ | xrandr --listmoitors lists only one display |
| 19:11.18 | His_Dudeness__ | It I start the it with a mint live system the two displays are working in the first place. |
| 19:11.19 | His_Dudeness__ | xrandr --listmoitors lists only two displays |
| 19:11.19 | His_Dudeness__ | I don't get it!!!! |
| 19:11.19 | *** kick/#debian [His_Dudeness__!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (flood) |
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| 19:14.12 | trek00 | ska: when it boots, do you see text messages or it starts in graphical mode? |
| 19:15.16 | karlpinc | wxb, trek00: info -f grub -n 'Simple configuration' |
| 19:15.16 | trek00 | His_Dudeness__: may be different versions of graphics driver? |
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| 19:16.02 | karlpinc | says that GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK can be used to boot from an encrypted disk. So wxb should not need a separate unencrypted /boot. |
| 19:16.44 | karlpinc | So wxb should not have to go through all the re-partitioning, setting up LUKS, etc., because he's done it already. |
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| 19:16.52 | ska | trek00: I recall seeing tty0 briefly before XDM kicks in.. |
| 19:17.08 | ska | trek00: I don't see any ttys1 numbers. |
| 19:17.09 | wxb | karlpinc, You've saved me... I was about to restart install.. |
| 19:17.40 | trek00 | ska: it seems to me drivers can't switch to textmode |
| 19:17.48 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay. Where should I put that? In the black grub menu I get? |
| 19:17.58 | His_Dudeness__ | @ trek00 don't know ... i will check it ... thanks !!!! |
| 19:19.26 | karlpinc | wxb: In /etc/default/grub. The line is GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK="y" (I think you need the quotes. |
| 19:19.35 | karlpinc | wxb: Then you need to run update-grub. |
| 19:19.52 | wxb | karlpinc, How do I access that? I can't even boot? |
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| 19:20.21 | karlpinc | wxb: You can boot the installer in rescue mode and it will give you the choice to have a shell in your installed system. |
| 19:20.32 | somiaj | His_Dudeness__: what graphics card do you have? |
| 19:20.54 | wxb | karlpinc, then use nano? |
| 19:21.04 | karlpinc | wxb: Nano is good. |
| 19:21.26 | jhutchins_wk | !fixgrub |
| 19:21.26 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 19:21.49 | jhutchins_wk | So it's nt a simple "update-grub", but not hard. |
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| 19:22.37 | wxb | jhutchins_wk, Oh. I'm lost now. |
| 19:22.41 | His_Dudeness__ | somiaj, Radeon HD 4550 |
| 19:23.01 | karlpinc | jhutchins_wk: When did rescue mode stop giving shell access? |
| 19:23.18 | karlpinc | wxb: I never had a problem with the method I just mentioned. |
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| 19:23.28 | wxb | karlpinc, Well, I got into a shell |
| 19:23.45 | wxb | karlpinc, I ran nano /etc/default/grub and now have an empty file. |
| 19:23.45 | karlpinc | wxb: You are in shell and chrooted into your new system? |
| 19:23.49 | somiaj | His_Dudeness__: you might just be missing firmawre, try install firmware-amd-graphics from non-free and rebot. |
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| 19:24.01 | karlpinc | wxb: You are not chrooted into your new system. How did you get into shell? |
| 19:24.02 | wxb | No idea how I got into that because at no point did I open the LUKS |
| 19:24.13 | wxb | I went into recovery |
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| 19:24.19 | wxb | and went to the menu |
| 19:24.25 | somiaj | His_Dudeness__: Debian derivatives (like mint) provide non-free firmware by default. Debian ensures that debian main has no non-free software, as such you don't get non-free firmware by default, you have to make the choice to install it. |
| 19:24.26 | wxb | and then opened some shell |
| 19:24.47 | His_Dudeness__ | somiaj, just a sec |
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| 19:25.26 | karlpinc | wxb: findmnt says your disk is mounted? |
| 19:26.00 | karlpinc | wxb: I'd say type "exit" and look at the rescue mode menu again. |
| 19:26.19 | wxb | saved that file. |
| 19:26.25 | wxb | ran update-grub |
| 19:26.29 | *** join/#debian digin4 (~digin4@unaffiliated/digin4) |
| 19:26.34 | wxb | and got update-grub: not found |
| 19:26.49 | karlpinc | wxb: Because your system is not mounted, it was never unlocked. |
| 19:26.54 | wxb | wxb |
| 19:26.57 | wxb | oops |
| 19:26.59 | wxb | Oh |
| 19:27.34 | wxb | So, what should I do now? |
| 19:27.55 | karlpinc | wxb: Type "exit".... see above. |
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| 19:28.20 | wxb | I rebooted and went to rescue mode |
| 19:28.28 | wxb | choosing language... |
| 19:28.38 | karlpinc | wxb: Ok... |
| 19:28.49 | His_Dudeness__ | somiaj, Thanks a lot !!!!! i works !!!! |
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| 19:30.17 | wxb | karlpinc, loading okay then it wants machine name and all that... |
| 19:30.52 | His_Dudeness__ | somiaj, I found so many complicated solutions ... and it was that easy !!! |
| 19:30.52 | His_Dudeness__ | Thanks a lot !!! |
| 19:31.06 | wxb | So I hit escape a bunch of times to get to a long menu of : choose language , access software , confugre keyboard... |
| 19:31.35 | wxb | Should I just go to partition and add in that boot thing outside of LUKS |
| 19:31.40 | somiaj | His_Dudeness__: https://www.debian.org/intro/free -- debian free software guidelines (DFSG) are a set of rules that all software in debian main must meet. |
| 19:31.46 | karlpinc | wxb: You need to get to the LUKS partition and choose it. Normally rescue mode will eventually take you the right place. |
| 19:31.58 | karlpinc | wxb: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch08s06.en.html |
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| 19:32.08 | wxb | karlpinc, I'm at the partition step. |
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| 19:32.51 | karlpinc | wxb: You don't want to partition, but you do want to unlock it. Try choosing it and see what it does. (But don't write anything to disk via the menus.) |
| 19:32.55 | somiaj | His_Dudeness__: as such, debian has a social contract to its users that only the offical software in main must be free. Now due to some hardware this has problems, so debian also provides access to non-free software, for users who want to use it. At some point of view this is just an additional step one needs to use, but to those who care about free software, you can ensure that apt only has access to free |
| 19:33.01 | somiaj | software. |
| 19:33.22 | Akuw | how can i get data from PORT STATE SERVICE |
| 19:33.23 | Akuw | 2111/tcp open kx |
| 19:33.45 | somiaj | His_Dudeness__: or you can clearly see if a piece of software is 'free' or not, by keeping them in seperate repos. |
| 19:33.56 | karlpinc | His_Dudeness__: There are unoffical install images availble with non-free firmware included. Those are easier to use, because your problem is avoided, but not recommended by Debian because it violates the social contract. |
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| 19:34.59 | His_Dudeness__ | somiaj, karlpinc thanks dude !!!! it took me hours .. unbelieveable |
| 19:35.05 | His_Dudeness__ | dudes |
| 19:35.44 | dka | what version of java is in openjdk-11-jdk |
| 19:35.58 | jhutchins_wk | karlpinc: I run the installer maybe once a year. |
| 19:35.58 | wxb | Why is it asking me to name the machine? Already did that in reg install. |
| 19:36.02 | greycat | ... is that a trick question? |
| 19:36.06 | dka | version 11, I tought we were at java 9 |
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| 19:36.32 | somiaj | dka: java is like ersion 13 right now, version 11 was the one avaialble at the time of the freeze |
| 19:36.56 | dka | what version should I install for development ? |
| 19:36.59 | dka | i was using java 8 |
| 19:37.12 | greycat | "should" is a strong word here |
| 19:37.19 | karlpinc | jhutchins_wk: I think the factoid is old. But it still works. I run the installer less than once a year, but frobbed the grub config via rescue mode a few years back. |
| 19:37.19 | dka | should I stick to java 8? |
| 19:37.24 | somiaj | dka: that is a tricky question, and depends on what you are devleoping. |
| 19:37.28 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay, got to the password prompt. |
| 19:37.32 | dka | I was working on Spring Boot 1.8 |
| 19:37.47 | wxb | karlpinc, entered it. Now I have to choose the root... |
| 19:37.55 | somiaj | dka: at some level you might want to realize that oracle only supports the newest version of openjdk, you have to pay for good support for older versions. |
| 19:38.01 | karlpinc | wxb: Right. Now you're in the right place. |
| 19:38.02 | wxb | I think I put that in /other |
| 19:38.21 | wxb | run a shell in /dev/vg/other ? |
| 19:38.30 | somiaj | dka: older versions only get security fixes, rarely bug fixes. If running buster and you don't have a paticular piece of software you need to run, I would use the version that comes with buster, which is 11. |
| 19:38.31 | karlpinc | wxb: yes |
| 19:38.38 | wxb | or run a shell in the contex of the the installer? |
| 19:38.58 | karlpinc | wxb: You want in your installed system, not in the installer. |
| 19:39.08 | wxb | Now I do those command from earlier? |
| 19:39.21 | karlpinc | wxb: Yes. Fix grub. |
| 19:39.51 | wxb | karlpinc, This ? wxb: In /etc/default/grub. The line is GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK="y" (I think you need the quotes.) |
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| 19:40.03 | karlpinc | wxb: Yes. |
| 19:40.13 | karlpinc | wxb: (I'll look at the quote thing....) |
| 19:40.16 | dka | ok |
| 19:40.17 | dka | but then |
| 19:40.21 | dka | I need to install something |
| 19:40.24 | dka | so I can get started |
| 19:40.33 | dka | I will install jdk8 so I have no pain starting up my app right ? |
| 19:40.41 | wxb | So I add this after the last GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="" |
| 19:40.45 | dka | maybe I'll just install java just when I need it then =/ |
| 19:41.08 | karlpinc | wxb: Actually, the quotes for that are optional. So fine either way. Just don't put spaces around the "=" character. |
| 19:41.22 | wxb | Oaky. |
| 19:41.34 | karlpinc | wxb: It does not matter what line it goes on. But you might want to add comments so you know what you did and why. |
| 19:41.57 | karlpinc | wxb: Comments would be on their own line. Beginning with a #. |
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| 19:42.34 | karlpinc | (Quote are probably good form.) |
| 19:42.35 | wxb | Okay. |
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| 19:42.56 | wxb | running update-grub |
| 19:43.19 | wxb | Okay... there is some output... |
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| 19:43.36 | wxb | I'm translating from French as I go, but here is the idea: |
| 19:43.45 | wxb | creating GRUB file |
| 19:43.55 | karlpinc | wxb: (I'd encourage you to learn vi/vim or emacs if you want to do anything techical on Unix.) (I like emacs, but you need to install the emacs25-common-non-dfsg (or equalivent) from the non-free repos to get the docs. The tutorial is especially useful.) |
| 19:44.00 | wxb | found background image: /usr/share..... |
| 19:44.21 | wxb | Image Linux found: /boot/vmlinus.... |
| 19:44.49 | wxb | Initial memory image found: /boot/intrd.... |
| 19:45.01 | karlpinc | wxb: I don't think we really need to know, unless there's an error message. |
| 19:45.15 | wxb | grub-probe: error impossible to find a |
| 19:45.16 | karlpinc | Or if it says something about LUKS or cryptography. |
| 19:45.20 | jhutchins_wk | What's the variable that lets you set a language for a given command? Can't remember the factoid. |
| 19:45.29 | somiaj | nano works just fine. I guess when I started in unix pico (which nano is kinda based from) was a fairly standard editor too. |
| 19:45.31 | wxb | karlpinc, But there is that error with grub |
| 19:45.37 | tangarora | I am running openvpn on a host and telling it to forward everything through the tun0... so now all client pc's that set the ip of the host as default route get vpn internet access... cool? |
| 19:45.42 | tangarora | := |
| 19:45.46 | tangarora | BUT |
| 19:45.57 | wxb | karlpinc, Yes, I did try to learn vim. I'd love to. It seems cool. Emacs too, but I tried out vim more. |
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| 19:46.08 | tangarora | I cant get to the internet from that host that is rinning the vpm and the iptables |
| 19:46.12 | somiaj | wxb: vimtutor is a nice program to start |
| 19:46.14 | karlpinc | Well, what is the error? |
| 19:46.20 | tangarora | so what did I do wring? |
| 19:46.24 | tangarora | wrong |
| 19:46.34 | jhutchins_wk | I'm constantly learning new things in vim, and I've been at this a while. |
| 19:46.43 | tangarora | #--------------------------------------------------------------- |
| 19:46.43 | tangarora | echo "Allow all local connections." |
| 19:46.43 | tangarora | #--------------------------------------------------------------- |
| 19:46.43 | tangarora | iptables -A INPUT -i lo -j ACCEPT |
| 19:46.43 | tangarora | iptables -A OUTPUT -o lo -j ACCEPT |
| 19:46.43 | *** kick/#debian [tangarora!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (flood) |
| 19:46.46 | Zathras | tangarora, enable ip forwarding/masquerade on it |
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| 19:47.20 | wxb | so it's grub-probe : error : impossible to find a périphérique GRUB for /dev/sdb1. Check device.map |
| 19:47.36 | karlpinc | Zathras: He got booted for pasting too much into the channel. He'll probably be back. And yes, that's what's needed. |
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| 19:47.57 | jhutchins_wk | tangarora: You'll want to enable forwarding as well. |
| 19:48.01 | tangarora | oops got kicked... |
| 19:48.11 | wasamasa | no flood plz |
| 19:48.12 | Habbie | tangarora, yes, please use a pastebin for pastes, so you don't get kicked |
| 19:48.13 | wxb | karlpinc, Is that a prob? |
| 19:48.14 | Zathras | tangarora, use a pastebin |
| 19:48.23 | tangarora | ok |
| 19:48.23 | Zathras | tangarora, enable ip forwarding/masquerade on it |
| 19:48.23 | karlpinc | wxb: That might be your windows partition and not a problem at all. |
| 19:48.28 | greycat | e.g. http://paste.debian.net/ |
| 19:48.45 | wxb | Okay... so now I reboot?? |
| 19:48.53 | karlpinc | wxb: or it might be your usb stick. (I think so.) |
| 19:49.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1559] by debhelper |
| 19:49.01 | wxb | it's the usb stick I think. |
| 19:49.04 | tangarora | I have this line: iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE |
| 19:49.07 | Zathras | anyone aware of plans to backport redmine to buster? |
| 19:49.07 | jhutchins_wk | tangarora: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/IP-Masquerade-HOWTO/ |
| 19:49.10 | tangarora | not enough? |
| 19:49.19 | karlpinc | wxb: Yes. you can "exit" there and reboot from the rescue mode. Or probably just reboot as "normal". |
| 19:49.36 | karlpinc | ,v redmine |
| 19:49.37 | judd | Package: redmine on amd64 -- stretch: 3.3.1-4+deb9u2; stretch-security: 3.3.1-4+deb9u2; bullseye: 4.0.4-3; sid: 4.0.4-3 |
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| 19:50.05 | jhutchins_wk | tangarora: echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward |
| 19:50.22 | tangarora | Zathras: I have this line: iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE |
| 19:50.36 | wxb | So it booted into Windows.... |
| 19:50.40 | Zathras | tangarora, what jhutchins_wk says |
| 19:50.46 | karlpinc | Zathras: It is sad redmine is not in buster. There's surely a bug report that says why. You could ask the judd bot to "checkbackport" (IIRC) and see if you can self-backport it. |
| 19:50.55 | tangarora | ok ok |
| 19:51.13 | Zathras | karlpinc, it had to do with dependencies, but these seem to be resolved now |
| 19:51.13 | karlpinc | wxb: That's good. You didn't break Windows. You have the option to boot into debian? |
| 19:51.30 | wxb | And I did the same thing via bios as before and I just get the black grub thing |
| 19:51.33 | wxb | like before. |
| 19:52.08 | karlpinc | wxb: Let me look up and see what "the black grub thing" is. |
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| 19:52.30 | wxb | karlpinc, Sorry. Not specific. |
| 19:53.02 | jhutchins_wk | karlpinc: Last I checked redmine was more of a framework than a functional system. |
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| 19:53.44 | Zathras | redmine is a functional system, but has many plugins which can make ik break easily |
| 19:53.46 | wxb | karlpinc, GNU GRUB version 2.02.. at the top, centered |
| 19:53.47 | Zathras | *it |
| 19:54.12 | karlpinc | wxb: You just get the grub prompt, right? |
| 19:54.18 | wxb | karlpinc, Then Minimal BASH-like line editing is supported. For the first word, TAB |
| 19:54.21 | wxb | karlpinc, No, |
| 19:54.32 | wxb | It's not a regular GRUB. No splash. |
| 19:54.32 | karlpinc | wxb: You can't type anything? |
| 19:54.33 | jhutchins_wk | Zathras: I got the strong feeling it required a php coder to set it up. |
| 19:54.34 | wxb | No otpions. |
| 19:54.37 | wxb | Yes. |
| 19:54.43 | wxb | There is the grub> prompt |
| 19:54.51 | jhutchins_wk | wxb: Blinking cursor? |
| 19:54.52 | Zathras | kind of depends how fancy you want it to be and if you are comfortable installing plugins out of the .deb ecosystem or not as many are not packaged |
| 19:55.06 | Zathras | jhutchins_wk, it is ruby |
| 19:55.06 | wxb | jhutchins_wk, No, but there is _ |
| 19:55.19 | wxb | I can type whatever there. |
| 19:55.23 | karlpinc | wxb: You probably need to tell grub your LUKS password (and maybe the disk). |
| 19:55.31 | wxb | wxb |
| 19:55.33 | wxb | oops |
| 19:55.34 | wxb | Okay. |
| 19:55.38 | Zathras | it requires messing with rails. Indeed not easy to get going |
| 19:55.45 | wxb | So... just enter the password there?? |
| 19:55.48 | jhutchins_wk | wxb: That's the cursor. That implies that grub did not find stage 2 on the disk. |
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| 19:55.56 | wxb | jhutchins_wk, Ah |
| 19:55.58 | wxb | Oh dear. |
| 19:56.01 | karlpinc | wxb: No. Something's not right, but you can poke about. |
| 19:56.28 | wxb | karlpinc, jhutchins_wk I've really been trying... |
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| 19:57.22 | Zathras | could it be that wxb installed grub on a partition instead of the mbr? |
| 19:57.23 | karlpinc | wxb: This looks like how to fix it: https://outflux.net/blog/archives/2017/08/30/grub-and-luks/ |
| 19:57.59 | karlpinc | wxb: You got a grub menu to choose Windows or Debian, right? |
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| 19:58.21 | wxb | karlpinc, Nope |
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| 19:58.35 | karlpinc | wxb: Then how did you choose Windows or Debian? |
| 19:59.03 | wxb | Windows starts automatically. |
| 19:59.17 | karlpinc | wxb: So, to "un-automatic"? |
| 19:59.23 | wxb | this weird grub land is accessible via F9 choose boot |
| 19:59.33 | jhutchins_wk | So the BIOS starts Windows unless you use the boot menu. |
| 19:59.35 | wxb | in BIOS |
| 19:59.44 | wxb | jhutchins_wk, Exactly! |
| 19:59.47 | karlpinc | wxb: Ok. Not crazy. |
| 19:59.56 | wxb | so I should follow that link? |
| 20:00.09 | karlpinc | wxb: And in the boot menu you choose what for linux? |
| 20:00.10 | wxb | can I change keyboard? I have a Fr one? |
| 20:00.23 | wxb | wxb, Debian I think. |
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| 20:00.34 | wxb | karlpinc, Would the full words be helpful? |
| 20:00.42 | jhutchins_wk | Have fun guys. |
| 20:00.46 | Zathras | not sure, but maybe refind can fix that. Worth a try with a live boot menu on sub stick |
| 20:01.14 | wxb | OS boot manager (UEFI) - debian (SAMSSUNG MZNL.......... |
| 20:01.14 | karlpinc | wxb: Let me look at that link I sent. Should be able to work the way you have it.... |
| 20:01.48 | karlpinc | wxb: Does it say what partition on the samsung? |
| 20:02.28 | wxb | karlpinc, No, same as for windows. |
| 20:02.38 | wxb | I think it's just the drive ID? |
| 20:03.01 | wxb | Can I change keyboad layout? |
| 20:04.18 | kadiro | good question |
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| 20:05.39 | wxb | karlpinc, I tried following those instructions, but not getting the password prompt... |
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| 20:08.37 | wxb | karlpinc, Should I just add a boot partition outside of LUKS? |
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| 20:08.48 | deavmi | Anyone running Debian Hurd here? |
| 20:09.40 | wxb | deavmi, Never hurd of it. lol. |
| 20:09.43 | wxb | sorry. |
| 20:09.49 | karlpinc | wxb: That might be easiest. You'd have to start entirely over. |
| 20:09.56 | karlpinc | wxb: There is good news. |
| 20:09.59 | deavmi | wxb: Good one |
| 20:10.25 | karlpinc | wxb: (I think we could follow the web page and make it work as-is, but I don't have tons of time.) |
| 20:10.31 | wxb | karlpinc, Alas. |
| 20:10.50 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay. Well thank you so so much for all your time already! |
| 20:10.56 | karlpinc | wxb: You can use the installer to destroy your LUKS partition and make it into 2, one for /boot and one for LUKS. |
| 20:10.57 | wxb | Okay. Here goes... |
| 20:10.58 | nkuttler | fwiw, there is #hurd. used to be somewhat active last time i checked.. a decade ago |
| 20:11.33 | wxb | karlpinc, But go through all the step leading up to that? |
| 20:11.41 | nkuttler | i wonder if they've made much progress since then.. |
| 20:11.42 | karlpinc | wxb: That's the good news, no other re-partition tool necessary. |
| 20:11.58 | karlpinc | wxb: It'd be an entirely new install, unless you want to try the web page. |
| 20:12.10 | wxb | New install here we go! |
| 20:12.13 | karlpinc | wxb: You've already written random numbers, won't need to redo-that. |
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| 20:12.40 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay. I'm a bit shakey on the splitting in two part. dimensions and all, but I'll try. |
| 20:12.40 | karlpinc | wxb: Use the unofficial netinstall installer this time! |
| 20:12.45 | wxb | Yep. doing that. |
| 20:12.52 | wxb | It's ready and running. |
| 20:12.58 | *** join/#debian trifolio6 (~h@115.pool85-57-72.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 20:13.11 | wxb | Maybe I'll get there before you leave! |
| 20:13.31 | *** join/#debian dtux (~dmtucker@2600:1700:22f0:37b0:8851:2377:f40a:f6e6) |
| 20:13.48 | karlpinc | wxb: I'd say 400MB for /boot is plenty. The rest to LUKS. |
| 20:14.20 | wxb | Okay. I'm at partitioning now. |
| 20:14.22 | wxb | Manual |
| 20:14.50 | wxb | So I selected that partition. |
| 20:15.21 | somiaj | 400Megs should hold about 6 or so kernels, so more than enough for most use cases |
| 20:15.43 | wxb | But can't split it in two... |
| 20:16.30 | wxb | somiaj, Cool. Thanks! |
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| 20:16.51 | humbot | damn kernels keep getting bigger |
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| 20:17.02 | karlpinc | wxb: You have to delete it and re-create 2 new ones. |
| 20:17.52 | wxb | Should I put the 400 at start or end? |
| 20:17.56 | wxb | start no? |
| 20:18.16 | karlpinc | wxb: Shouldn't matter really. Start is fine. |
| 20:18.30 | wxb | name? |
| 20:18.53 | karlpinc | wxb: bootpartition ? |
| 20:19.00 | wxb | use as ext2? like here: https://xo.tc/images/debian-stretch-18-partition-disks.png |
| 20:19.07 | wxb | karlpinc, Yes, still on that one. |
| 20:19.25 | somiaj | wxb: on modern systems it doesn't mattter, mostly just needs to be outside of LUKES, if using UEFI, ake sure you also have an efi partition. |
| 20:19.26 | karlpinc | wxb: ext2 is fine. Nothing seriously wrong with ext4 either. |
| 20:19.45 | wxb | mount is /boot |
| 20:19.51 | wxb | No label? |
| 20:20.03 | karlpinc | wxb: I like to label it: boot |
| 20:20.17 | karlpinc | wxb: (And label the / partition: root) |
| 20:20.38 | wxb | karlpinc, What you don't like 'other' as a label. lol |
| 20:21.14 | wxb | root, ext4, / good? |
| 20:21.21 | karlpinc | wxb: (Just naming your vg, "vg", can get kind of confusing too. Likewise with other stuff.) |
| 20:21.34 | wxb | karlpinc, lol |
| 20:21.37 | karlpinc | wxb: No. You want use as LUKS. |
| 20:21.50 | *** join/#debian tdn (~tdn@x50d248d8.cust.hiper.dk) |
| 20:21.50 | wxb | karlpinc, oops yes, of course! |
| 20:22.01 | wxb | So, no name... |
| 20:22.14 | karlpinc | wxb: You could call it: lukspartition |
| 20:22.54 | *** join/#debian dvs (~gilford@cwv.teksavvy.com) |
| 20:22.58 | karlpinc | (Once you start with "boot" as a partition name, and as a filesystem label, and.... confusion sets in fast.) |
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| 20:23.36 | wxb | So, now I configure the LUKS one with swap and root? |
| 20:23.53 | karlpinc | wxb: Now you configure the LUKS one as LVM. |
| 20:24.05 | wxb | karlpinc, Like before? |
| 20:24.10 | karlpinc | wxb: Like before. |
| 20:24.50 | Miles8of9 | https://packages.debian.org/stretch/xserver-xorg-video-nvidia-legacy-304xx --> dep: xserver-xorg-core (<< 2:1.19.99) ---> buster has xserver-xorg-core 2:1.20.4-1 while stretch had 2:1.19.2-1+deb9u5 |
| 20:24.53 | karlpinc | wxb: You could put a plain-old partition table on there, with 2 partitions. But if there ever might be a 2nd hard drive enter the picture LVM is really useful. |
| 20:24.53 | wxb | Adding the passphrase. |
| 20:25.12 | Miles8of9 | mistery solved.... my video card is no longer supported on linux -_- |
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| 20:25.36 | wxb | what should I call the lvm.... lvm? |
| 20:26.01 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: Usually when that happens the functionality is taken over by another driver. |
| 20:26.20 | karlpinc | wxb: I don't think it has a name, does it? |
| 20:26.33 | wxb | it can it's for the group. |
| 20:26.56 | Miles8of9 | karlpinc, nvidia 340 driver has no support for my card -_- |
| 20:27.10 | karlpinc | wxb: Ah, the volume group. vg_SYSTEMNAME_00 is sort of traditional. |
| 20:27.28 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: Is that the driver from nvidia? |
| 20:27.33 | *** join/#debian n-iCe (~nice@189.232.47.86) |
| 20:27.34 | *** join/#debian n-iCe (~nice@Aircrack-NG/User/n-iCe) |
| 20:27.54 | wxb | Oh, no there are no free physical volumes... |
| 20:27.57 | n-iCe | guys, how do I stop restoring apps when I shutdown/Reboot |
| 20:27.59 | somiaj | Miles8of9: what was the last nvidia version that supported the card? |
| 20:28.05 | karlpinc | wxb: That way when you move drives from system to system (when something breaks) you know which is what. |
| 20:28.10 | somiaj | Miles8of9: or better yet, what card do you have? |
| 20:28.13 | Miles8of9 | card is from nvidia so i think driver is by nvidia |
| 20:28.27 | Miles8of9 | it's a notebook, geforce go 6600 |
| 20:28.34 | somiaj | Miles8of9: note nouveau will probably support your card, so go with that unless you want to use a legacy non-free driver. |
| 20:28.50 | wxb | Oh dear. What did I do wrong... |
| 20:28.50 | karlpinc | wxb: You need to go to the (new) LUKS space and mark it LVM. |
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| 20:29.23 | Miles8of9 | somiaj, i would go with non free legacy but it's no longer developed by debian |
| 20:29.33 | wxb | I can't it says it's occupied by sda6_crypt |
| 20:29.40 | somiaj | Miles8of9: debian has never develpped these non-free drivers. |
| 20:29.41 | Miles8of9 | https://alioth-lists.debian.net/pipermail/pkg-nvidia-devel/2019-April/017078.html |
| 20:29.52 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: "nouvaeu" is a free software driver. |
| 20:29.59 | somiaj | Miles8of9: the reason the 304xx is no longer in buster is because nvidia will not make it compile against new xorg and new kernels |
| 20:30.06 | somiaj | Miles8of9: you will have to use nouveau in this case. |
| 20:30.15 | Lope | ratrace, is it possible to execute a wget command when the initramfs has brought up the network? |
| 20:30.47 | karlpinc | wxb: sda6_crypt needs to be marked as a LVM volume. |
| 20:30.54 | *** join/#debian kw21 (~kw21@217-120-232-48.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 20:30.55 | karlpinc | Er, physical volume. |
| 20:30.56 | wxb | karlpinc, My bad. |
| 20:31.14 | Lope | ratrace, I'd like my server to let me know (via a HTTP request) that it's at the initramfs stage |
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| 20:32.57 | wxb | Okay. Done LVM. Do I need to do something with the ext2 boot /boot one? |
| 20:33.16 | Miles8of9 | 340 drivers etc etc have no problems compiling with newer xorg, so i think it's the software around that driver that could be updated but the maintainers won't do it |
| 20:33.23 | wxb | It has no bootflag... should I turn it on? |
| 20:33.33 | wxb | Oh. I can't. |
| 20:33.36 | karlpinc | Lope: Hack the initramfs. There's hooks for that sort of stuff. Have it run curl (or something). There's readmes in /usr/share/doc/initramfs.... (Or somewhere). You may need to put curl (or something) into the initramfs. But the real problem might be setting up the networking. It will be a project. |
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| 20:33.48 | trek00 | wxb: boot flag was for old bios mbr |
| 20:33.57 | wxb | trek00, Okay. thnx |
| 20:34.05 | karlpinc | wxb: You can turn on the boot flag in your /boot partition. I don't know if UEFI or grub or anything really cares. |
| 20:34.07 | Lope | karlpinc, I've already got the networking working |
| 20:34.25 | ratrace | Lope: yeah you just need to write an initramfs-tools script and put it in the appropriate stage at /etc/initramfs-tools/scripts/... |
| 20:34.34 | wxb | So... I just apply changes to partitions and continue install and GRUB will find the /boot partition this time? |
| 20:34.41 | karlpinc | Lope: And then rebuild the initramfs. |
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| 20:34.49 | karlpinc | wxb: Yes. |
| 20:34.56 | ratrace | Lope: right, and then update-initramfs -u |
| 20:35.02 | Lope | ratrace, basically an sh script? but the environment is busybox, not bash, right? |
| 20:35.11 | karlpinc | wxb: It had better. I want to see it boot. (and have nothing else go sideways) |
| 20:35.11 | ratrace | Lope: right |
| 20:35.25 | Lope | ratrace, can I just copy the wget binary into somewhere? what about dependencies? |
| 20:35.31 | ratrace | Lope: man initramfs-tools for details and look up scripts under /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/ for examples |
| 20:35.35 | wxb | karlpinc, lol. I'm exhausted, but am hoping... |
| 20:35.44 | ratrace | Lope: ah yes, for that you'll need a "hook" |
| 20:35.46 | wxb | just double checking here... |
| 20:36.02 | Lope | ratrace, do you do any such thing (http request) ? |
| 20:36.20 | ratrace | Lope: not yet but the plan is to have the root LUKS unlocking by fetching a key over https from our key server |
| 20:36.33 | ratrace | haven't yet gotten to writing the keyserver part |
| 20:36.39 | Lope | ratrace, so basically, I'll be ahead of you soon :p |
| 20:36.48 | wxb | I forgot all the root and swap stuff. Doing that now. |
| 20:36.52 | ratrace | Lope: mayhaps :) |
| 20:36.52 | karlpinc | Lope: You may need libraries in addition to whatever else. (nc sounds like the simplest way to make a http request, with fewest requirements) |
| 20:36.53 | Lope | the student surpasses the master muahahaha j/k. |
| 20:37.25 | Lope | karlpinc, it's actually an httpS request, so nc won't work. |
| 20:37.36 | karlpinc | Lope: stunnel then. |
| 20:37.50 | *** part/#debian MarioMey (~mario@186.123.198.233) |
| 20:37.53 | Lope | that sounds way more complicated than just a wget one liner. |
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| 20:38.06 | karlpinc | Lope: And to be serious you'll need certs in the initramfs too. |
| 20:38.11 | wxb | installing base system... |
| 20:38.13 | ratrace | Lope: oh for that don't forget to include libssl (and essentially any lib ldd'd from wget) and certs |
| 20:38.26 | Lope | ratrace, fun times |
| 20:38.27 | ratrace | Lope: for that I plan not to use ca-certficates at all, but a custom CA |
| 20:38.53 | Lope | ratrace, what's wrong with ca-certificates? |
| 20:39.23 | karlpinc | Lope: Depends on whether it's harder to keep up with all of wget-s library requirements or harder to script using something simpler. |
| 20:39.52 | Lope | hmm. okay, thanks guys, I'll scratch around. |
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| 20:39.55 | n-iCe | guys, how do I stop restoring apps when I shutdown/Reboot |
| 20:40.02 | karlpinc | Lope: After a while, adding stuff (lots-o-certs) can bloat your initramfs. |
| 20:40.11 | ratrace | Lope: I prefer self signed certs wherever possible. Using public CAs is becoming less and less secure as governments ramp up for cyberwarfare and CA become more vulnerable to their.... requests. |
| 20:40.19 | Lope | if the initramfs is a few mb bigger it's not an issue |
| 20:40.27 | *** part/#debian apteryx (~maxim@dsl-151-45.b2b2c.ca) |
| 20:40.34 | wxb | ......requests lol |
| 20:40.36 | ratrace | while I'd not be a target of a government, my concern is with the corruptible human factor in all this and selling stuff to black markets. |
| 20:40.52 | ratrace | put a human in the equation and the whole house of cards comes down |
| 20:41.03 | karlpinc | aspires to be the target of a government |
| 20:41.05 | wxb | With a name like ratrace I think you blend in well with. lol |
| 20:41.06 | Lope | ratrace, for sure. however for my use case it's not really security sensitive. |
| 20:41.07 | wxb | karlpinc, lol |
| 20:41.21 | Lope | I'll just be sending myself a msg from my server to let me know that it's booting. |
| 20:41.30 | ratrace | wxb: what do you mean? It's R. Atrace |
| 20:41.48 | *** join/#debian jankocan (~jankocan@p57A57F8F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:41.48 | wxb | wxb, lol rat race |
| 20:41.55 | ratrace | Lope: then y'all don't need them certs do ya :) |
| 20:42.13 | Lope | if you're not a target of the government you're not expressing yourself fully. |
| 20:42.19 | ratrace | wxb: maybe it's RA trace.... or maybe it's maybelline |
| 20:42.26 | wxb | ratrace, lol |
| 20:42.36 | Lope | give a honest free-thinking opinion and you'll be on a watch list. |
| 20:42.55 | Lope | only way to stay off those is to say "yes sir. no sir, 3 bags full sir." |
| 20:43.05 | ratrace | Lope: with all the people working there, you don't need a government to be the bad boy |
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| 20:43.25 | Lope | yep, true. |
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| 20:44.10 | ratrace | That's my biggest concern really with any of the corporate or government entities holding and dealing with our data. |
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| 20:44.46 | *** part/#debian jankocan (~jankocan@p57A57F8F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:44.48 | wxb | So I know I'll need https://packages.debian.org/buster/broadcom-sta-dkms |
| 20:45.00 | ratrace | People say, if you have nothing to hide, what do you care? Well I care because databases get hacked, and leaked and before you know it, the bad guys have all the info they need to hack ME or my bank account, steal identity, and do worse stuff.... |
| 20:45.07 | wxb | How can get that on the laptop without wifi, seeing as there dependences and all... |
| 20:45.11 | trek00 | it's not bad to give your data to someone if you want, but it's really bad to not have the choice to give or not |
| 20:45.21 | wxb | trek00, Well said. |
| 20:45.24 | Miles8of9 | mmm Xorg is refusing to start because nvidia driver is still in its config /etc/X11/xorg.conf do i simply remove the "nvidia" line and replace it with "nouveau"? |
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| 20:45.51 | wxb | Oh. Oh! It's trying to install GRUB... |
| 20:45.56 | wskyx | /.7 |
| 20:45.59 | wxb | lookinf for other OSs |
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| 20:46.21 | wxb | Do I have to manually do all the downloading of the .deb files? |
| 20:46.41 | mutante | ratrace: are you a Linux admin? |
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| 20:46.56 | karlpinc | wxb: The easy way is to use rescue mode like you did before. Get a root shell in the installed system and do an: apt-get install ... |
| 20:47.23 | wxb | karlpinc, Can't I just go into regular install? |
| 20:47.24 | karlpinc | wxb: Also pay attention to the package requirements. Install them first. |
| 20:47.34 | wxb | Moment of truth. Install compeleted... reboot.... |
| 20:47.37 | wxb | I might pass out |
| 20:48.00 | wxb | here goes... |
| 20:48.06 | karlpinc | wxb: I presume that your installer is on the internet? |
| 20:48.16 | wxb | oh windows booted by default. Not good. |
| 20:48.32 | wxb | Sigh. |
| 20:48.42 | karlpinc | wxb: Is it supposed to? |
| 20:48.50 | wxb | karlpinc, I don't think so. |
| 20:49.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1552] by debhelper |
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| 20:49.39 | karlpinc | wxb: You might have to get help from somebody else regards default boot OS and UEFI. |
| 20:49.43 | Lope | ratrace, okay now I've tried adding more luks volumes UUID's to my crypttab |
| 20:49.47 | karlpinc | wxb: So the installer can't get to the internet? |
| 20:49.59 | Lope | and it's saying Source mismatch when I try update the initramfs. |
| 20:50.14 | Lope | Do I need to open all the LUKS before I update initramfs? |
| 20:50.24 | SerajewelKS | Lope: no you don't |
| 20:50.35 | wxb | IT'S BOOTING! |
| 20:50.41 | wxb | WE'RE IN! |
| 20:50.45 | Lope | SerajewelKS, what could "Source mismatch" mean? |
| 20:50.49 | karlpinc | !next |
| 20:50.50 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 20:50.52 | SerajewelKS | Lope: it sounds like possibly some of the info in the crypttab doesn't match open crypto containers? |
| 20:50.55 | wxb | No gui or anytthing... but |
| 20:51.02 | wxb | karlpinc, No, wait? I'm not done!! |
| 20:51.03 | wxb | lol |
| 20:51.07 | karlpinc | wxb: Let's get the network working. |
| 20:51.11 | wxb | Still have to get Wifi. |
| 20:51.14 | wxb | karlpinc, Yes! |
| 20:51.17 | wxb | Let's go. |
| 20:51.20 | wxb | Okay. Read. |
| 20:51.23 | wxb | *ready |
| 20:51.24 | karlpinc | wxb: So, my question above.... |
| 20:51.25 | Lope | SerajewelKS, I've only got 1 luks volume mounted at the moment. |
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| 20:51.35 | wxb | This machine can. |
| 20:51.38 | wxb | That one can't. |
| 20:51.48 | karlpinc | wxb: Not even when you ran the installer? |
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| 20:52.02 | karlpinc | wxb: It didn't download any security updates or anything? |
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| 20:52.06 | wxb | I have broadcom-sta-dkms |
| 20:52.07 | Lope | SerajewelKS, all the names of the /dev/mapper/foo LUKS volumes that I've added are made up. |
| 20:52.18 | Lope | wxb, enter is not punctuation, you're flooding. |
| 20:52.18 | wxb | karlpinc, No... the wifi card needs this broadcom-sta-dkms |
| 20:52.31 | SerajewelKS | Lope: can you pastebin your crypttab and the output of lsblk? |
| 20:52.32 | karlpinc | wxb: One easy way is to plug in with a wire, then get the packages. |
| 20:52.43 | wxb | Lope, Sorry. I'll try to stop that. |
| 20:53.05 | wxb | karlpinc, I've no ethernet. |
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| 20:54.36 | karlpinc | wxb: sad face. Ok. Download all the buster .deb packages you need onto a usb stick and install them with dpkg. If you do them all at once (except for maybe the broadcomm package) on one command line then you don't have to worry about what needs what. (I think.) |
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| 20:55.34 | wxb | karlpinc, So I have to look at all the deps for that broadcom one? |
| 20:55.38 | Lope | wxb, cool |
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| 20:56.26 | karlpinc | wxb: Unless there's some other network access somewhere. |
| 20:56.33 | Lope | SerajewelKS, you seem to be mistaken. I've just opened 2 of the luks volumes (that were not open) with the same names as I've put in crypttab, and now update-initramfs is not complaining about those ones, only the remaining closed luks volumes. |
| 20:57.09 | SerajewelKS | Lope: it's possible. i don't recall having this issue with closed luks volumes before. |
| 20:57.18 | karlpinc | wxb: Like, you could wire an ethernet crossover cable between the box you're using for irc and the new box, and then setup networking. But that'd be more trouble than downloading the .debs you need. |
| 20:58.06 | SerajewelKS | crossover may not be required, most NICs these days can auto sense when a regular patch cable is used |
| 20:58.29 | karlpinc | wxb: I'd use your irc box to download: apt-get download pkg .... |
| 20:58.50 | Lope | SerajewelKS, I mounted them all now and ran update-initramfs -u and it completed now without errors. |
| 20:58.52 | karlpinc | wxb: Assuming you're running buster on the irc box that's an easy way to get the latest package. |
| 20:59.09 | SerajewelKS | Lope: was it actually an error or just a warning? |
| 21:00.05 | karlpinc | wxb: After you get networking working be sure to "apt-get update; apt-get upgrade". (Actually, I'm an aptitude user myself, but use what works for you.) |
| 21:00.17 | Lope | SerajewelKS, errors and warnings |
| 21:00.24 | trek00 | karlpinc: wxb: if running buster, this can help with dependencies https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13756800/how-to-download-all-dependencies-and-packages-to-directory/45489718#45489718 |
| 21:00.56 | *** join/#debian nunllk (edium@gateway/shell/suchznc/x-ctneshoctgqxgozq) |
| 21:01.08 | Lope | can I add swap to my fstab and then `mount -a` to add it to a running system? |
| 21:01.19 | SerajewelKS | Lope: swapon -a |
| 21:01.31 | wxb | karlpinc, How do I know how far to follow the deps? |
| 21:01.39 | Lope | SerajewelKS, will swapon look at the fstab? |
| 21:01.55 | SerajewelKS | Lope: no i mean you run 'swapon -a' after adding it to the fstab |
| 21:01.59 | karlpinc | wxb: I like trek00's solution above. The 2nd answer that uses apt-get. |
| 21:02.16 | SerajewelKS | Lope: a swap entry would look like: /path/to/dev/or/file/or/uuid none swap sw 0 0 |
| 21:02.22 | wxb | I trek00 Sorry didn't see that. |
| 21:02.44 | Lope | SerajewelKS, yes, that implies that. okay thanks for the example, are you sure it's right? i don't want to brick my remote server. |
| 21:03.03 | SerajewelKS | Lope: if it's wrong you'll just get some error |
| 21:03.14 | Lope | so the server will still boot? |
| 21:03.19 | karlpinc | wxb: But note also that you need the build-essential package and linux-headers-amd64 package in addition to the broadcomm package. |
| 21:03.33 | SerajewelKS | Lope: to my knowledge activating swap won't panic the init system |
| 21:03.39 | SerajewelKS | or failure to do so, i mean |
| 21:05.00 | *** join/#debian oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) |
| 21:05.01 | karlpinc | wxb: Or maybe the 3rd answer is really the best.... |
| 21:05.50 | karlpinc | wxb: If you still have that cd image on a usb stick it will have some packages already downloaded. (In the end, it is probably too much bother to use it because you'll need some from the net anyway.) |
| 21:06.31 | karlpinc | wxb: And apparently the wireless-tools package too. |
| 21:07.15 | karlpinc | Lope: FWIW, I've had swap fail to start in the initramfs and it wasn't a problem. But my experience was years ago. |
| 21:07.48 | wxb | wxb, Okay. I'm struggling with that script in the link. |
| 21:09.25 | wxb | https://paste.debian.net/1112105/ |
| 21:09.42 | karlpinc | wxb: The 3rd answer is best. I think. It comes from here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22008193/how-to-list-download-the-recursive-dependencies-of-a-debian-package |
| 21:09.47 | Lope | ratrace, SerajewelKS: damn. broke my server. |
| 21:09.55 | SerajewelKS | Lope: ? |
| 21:10.04 | Lope | was I supposed to format the swap in some special way? |
| 21:10.12 | SerajewelKS | Lope: mkswap |
| 21:10.18 | Lope | I didn't do that |
| 21:10.30 | Lope | I just made a md mirror and said go. |
| 21:10.30 | *** join/#debian oo_miguel (~miguel@89-67-252-80.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 21:10.32 | SerajewelKS | Lope: even still it shouldn't have failed to boot, it should have booted without that swap area activated |
| 21:10.36 | trek00 | wxb: you need to do: PACKAGES="broadcom-sta-dkms" and then the apt-get command unmodified |
| 21:11.31 | wxb | trek00, In terminal? |
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| 21:11.37 | karlpinc | wxb: No packages depend on that package. But you also need the 3 other packages I mentioned above. |
| 21:11.40 | Lope | fuck. this isn't going to be an easy fix. my luks password is from hell. typing it in over the DC's piece of shit console is gonna be death. |
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| 21:12.07 | trek00 | wxb: yes |
| 21:12.29 | SerajewelKS | Lope: what did boot fail on? |
| 21:12.31 | karlpinc | wxb: Ah, I didn't see. ${broadcom-sta-dkms} is wrong. |
| 21:12.34 | Lope | I've got no idea. |
| 21:12.55 | Lope | I'm guessing it must be the swap |
| 21:13.04 | SerajewelKS | is it just waiting for you to unlock volumes? |
| 21:13.14 | wxb | karlpinc, trek00 Okay. I see the error. Running it now. Where will this go to? |
| 21:13.16 | Lope | no, can't be. because dropbear has ended. |
| 21:13.31 | SerajewelKS | hmm |
| 21:13.37 | trek00 | wxb: in the current working directory |
| 21:13.46 | SerajewelKS | i would be very surprised if failing to activate swap is what caused boot to fail |
| 21:14.02 | karlpinc | wxb: You want to list all 4 packages, and omit the ${}. |
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| 21:14.29 | karlpinc | wxb: Yes, make a new directory and cd into it before downloading. |
| 21:15.03 | wxb | I got a ton of packages... And sorry, I'm looking now for the other three that you are telling me about. |
| 21:15.32 | karlpinc | wxb: There will be a ton. |
| 21:16.22 | SerajewelKS | Lope: note that if the swap area is a proper device (physical, md, dm, whatever) as opposed to a file, you can specify it by the UUID mkswap reports instead of by the device path |
| 21:16.40 | karlpinc | wxb: The good news is that many are base packages and will already be installed, but you don't know which ones. |
| 21:16.50 | SerajewelKS | Lope: UUID=___ none swap sw 0 0 |
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| 21:18.28 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay. So I got the broadcom, the wireless-tools and now I'm getting... |
| 21:18.38 | karlpinc | wxb: If we really cared, we could filter out those that are in a minimal install. But it is not worth it. |
| 21:18.53 | wxb | karlpinc, These: build-essential package and linux-headers-amd64? |
| 21:19.01 | karlpinc | wxb: (You could get them all at once, by listing all the packages.) |
| 21:19.03 | karlpinc | wxb: yes |
| 21:19.10 | Lope | SerajewelKS, I specified the swap like this: /dev/mapper/my-encrypted-swap none swap sw 0 0 |
| 21:19.10 | trek00 | build-essential is huge |
| 21:19.26 | trek00 | may be dkms could be built on the internet machine? |
| 21:19.35 | SerajewelKS | Lope: oh hmm, what is the crypttab entry? |
| 21:19.54 | Lope | it's my-encrypted-swap with the uuid of the underlying md |
| 21:20.05 | SerajewelKS | right but the options? |
| 21:20.18 | karlpinc | trek00: It is probably not worth it. Next time there's an update the broadcomm package will need to be compiled on the target machine anyway. |
| 21:20.23 | SerajewelKS | there's special support for encrypted swap where it creates a random key at boot and runs mkswap for you |
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| 21:20.55 | trek00 | karlpinc: true |
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| 21:21.14 | wxb | karlpinc, trek00 Okay! I've got them all on a flash drive. What should I do now? |
| 21:21.34 | wxb | Flash drive is in new box now. |
| 21:21.53 | karlpinc | wxb: mount the flash drive, you know how? |
| 21:22.04 | wxb | karlpinc, What a noob. Nope. Sorry. |
| 21:22.10 | wxb | mount? |
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| 21:22.19 | Lope | SerajewelKS, the options for my-encrypted-swap in crypttab are none luks,initramfs |
| 21:22.20 | karlpinc | mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt |
| 21:22.41 | karlpinc | wxb: (probably) That's likely the name of the flash drive's partition. |
| 21:22.50 | SerajewelKS | Lope: okay. you can also forgo luks to use a randomly-generated key, which has a few advantages assuming you never intend to hibernate the system. |
| 21:23.02 | SerajewelKS | Lope: i have a swap volume configured like: swap_crypt |
| 21:23.08 | SerajewelKS | erm good job paste, one sec |
| 21:23.21 | kadiro | i got this from dmesg [drm:intel_pipe_update_end [i915]] *ERROR* Atomic update failure on pipe A (start=633808 end=633809) time 173 us, min 763, max 767, scanline start 761, end 769 |
| 21:23.28 | karlpinc | wxb: You can do an lsblk if that mount does not work and find the right device name. |
| 21:23.33 | Lope | oh, well, yeah that would work for me. |
| 21:23.52 | wxb | karlpinc, "mount: /mnt: special device /dev/sdb1 does not exist |
| 21:23.53 | SerajewelKS | Lope: swap_crypt UUID=... /dev/urandom swap,cipher=aes-xts-plain64,size=256 |
| 21:24.19 | SerajewelKS | Lope: then fstab has: /dev/mapper/swap_crypt none swap sw 0 0 |
| 21:24.19 | karlpinc | wxb: Ok. "dmesg | tail" will tell you whether the flash drive is sdb or what. |
| 21:24.20 | kadiro | forget to say that error is repeated at least 3 times |
| 21:24.22 | Lope | SerajewelKS, is the size the bits? |
| 21:24.25 | karlpinc | lsblk will give you details. |
| 21:24.33 | wxb | sdb worked |
| 21:24.44 | SerajewelKS | Lope: of the encryption key, yes |
| 21:25.05 | karlpinc | wxb: cd into /mnt and whatever other dirs you put in there to get to where the .deb files are. |
| 21:25.21 | Lope | SerajewelKS, I notice you have the option swap... is that important? |
| 21:25.28 | SerajewelKS | Lope: one of the advantages of doing it this way is that the contents of swap are irrecoverable after shutdown / power loss because the random key is discarded |
| 21:25.41 | Lope | I used the option luks |
| 21:25.50 | SerajewelKS | Lope: that's what makes the crypto setup scripts run mkswap for you |
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| 21:25.58 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay, I'm in the dir with all the debs. |
| 21:26.00 | SerajewelKS | Lope: luks and swap are effectively mutually exclusive |
| 21:26.03 | Lope | oh, that's nice. |
| 21:26.09 | karlpinc | wxb: dpkg -i *.deb |
| 21:26.37 | SerajewelKS | Lope: "swap" means that after opening the crypto device with a random key, mkswap is run (because whatever was there will be garbage when interpreted with a random key) |
| 21:26.51 | Lope | SerajewelKS, so "swap_crypt UUID=... /dev/urandom swap,cipher=aes-xts-plain64,size=256" is your crypttab entry? |
| 21:26.56 | kadiro | i got this from dmesg [drm:intel_pipe_update_end [i915]] *ERROR* Atomic update failure on pipe A (start=633808 end=633809) time 173 us, min 763, max 767, scanline start 761, end 769, two times or so |
| 21:27.15 | Lope | SerajewelKS, looks great, thanks bud. will give it a go. |
| 21:27.20 | SerajewelKS | Lope: it also runs mkswap on the underlying device (the md device in your case) after closing the crypto device, to leave behind an unencrypted swap device. this is done so you can share the swap device with another OS. |
| 21:27.21 | wxb | karlpinc, dpkg warkning: Idconfig not found in the path variable or is not executable |
| 21:27.27 | SerajewelKS | Lope: yes, that is my crypttab entry |
| 21:27.41 | SerajewelKS | Lope: and fstab: /dev/mapper/swap_crypt none swap sw 0 0 |
| 21:27.45 | Lope | If I reboot my server I'll get busybox access at the initramfs stage... |
| 21:27.45 | karlpinc | kadiro: We heard the first time. A) what is your question. B) If it were me I'd google the whole thing, with " quotes around it, and see what comes up. |
| 21:27.53 | karlpinc | wxb: ldconfig? |
| 21:28.01 | Lope | is there anything I can do at that stage to fix the boot? |
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| 21:28.10 | SerajewelKS | Lope: depends on the error, i suppose |
| 21:28.12 | wxb | dpkg warning start-stop-dameon not found in the variable path or not exectuable |
| 21:28.12 | dpkg | wxb: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request |
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| 21:28.31 | kadiro | karlpinc, from that error it show it is related to graphic card but wondering what is the problem |
| 21:28.37 | SerajewelKS | Lope: hypothetically you could, yes |
| 21:28.49 | wxb | dpkg error 2 expected programs not found in the variable path or not executable |
| 21:28.49 | dpkg | wxb: You are person #2 to send an unparseable request |
| 21:28.56 | Lope | SerajewelKS, would I be able to mount the root filesystem and then edit fstab for example? |
| 21:29.13 | SerajewelKS | Lope: again, maybe |
| 21:29.27 | Lope | SerajewelKS, why maybe? |
| 21:29.29 | SerajewelKS | it's hard to say until the failure has happened |
| 21:29.33 | karlpinc | wxb: is libc-bin in your .deb files? |
| 21:29.37 | wxb | Note: the variable PATH of superuser should normally contain /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and /sbin |
| 21:29.44 | Lope | my initramfs busybox environment works. |
| 21:29.47 | SerajewelKS | Lope: for example if the initrd is missing a kernel module, then you're SOL at that point |
| 21:30.03 | Lope | the system booted fine before I added all the additional luks to the mix. |
| 21:30.13 | Lope | when it was only the rootfs luks it was fine. |
| 21:30.34 | Lope | no, that wouldn't be the case. |
| 21:30.40 | SerajewelKS | right so hopefully the initrd has the appropriate kernel modules to open luks volumes. though if you unlocked from dropbear then it must have. |
| 21:30.41 | wxb | karlpinc, No, but libc-dev-bin is. |
| 21:30.49 | kadiro | karlpinc, google give some result about a bug |
| 21:30.57 | SerajewelKS | i'm just speculating. but my point stands: i can't guarantee that you could fix any boot error from busybox. |
| 21:31.12 | karlpinc | kadiro: I don't know. Could be there's just a bug and you get error messages. If nothing stops working then you might be able to ignore it. |
| 21:31.18 | SerajewelKS | it's all hypothetical until we're looking at an actual error message |
| 21:31.23 | Lope | SerajewelKS, problem is I don't know how to function in the busybox environment. There is no `fdisk -l` for example |
| 21:31.29 | Lope | so I'm a bit lost there. |
| 21:31.37 | SerajewelKS | same. but we can stumble through together maybe. |
| 21:31.54 | karlpinc | wxb: I think you need libc-bin and its dependencies. So you'll need to cd out of /mnt and "umount /mnt" and remove the stick and get more debs. |
| 21:32.00 | kadiro | karlpinc, ah that make sense, but when that error come it affect the network to shutdown and restart |
| 21:33.03 | karlpinc | kadiro: Not good. Again, option B. Ask google and see if somebody has an answer. Or wait for somebody here to suggest something. |
| 21:33.39 | kadiro | karlpinc, ok i'm waiting as google gives only bugs without a fix |
| 21:33.48 | wxb | karlpinc, I did the same process for libc-bin, but it didn't download into the folder... |
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| 21:34.04 | karlpinc | kadiro: You could, possibly, try a backported newer kernel from backports. |
| 21:34.19 | karlpinc | wxb: did you cd there first? |
| 21:34.21 | kadiro | karlpinc, how |
| 21:34.40 | *** join/#debian Newami (~Newami@ip174-68-64-138.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 21:34.42 | karlpinc | !backports |
| 21:34.42 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
| 21:34.47 | wxb | karlpinc, I unmounted the flash drive, and am back on this machine. |
| 21:34.49 | karlpinc | ,v kernels |
| 21:34.50 | judd | No package named 'kernels' was found in amd64. |
| 21:34.57 | SerajewelKS | Lope: FWIW i have a bit of experience with this stuff. i recently performed a multi-stage storage migration on my server and part of that involved moving an existing md-raid device into LUKS while the system was still on. but i also didn't have boot issues, so i don't have as much experience there. |
| 21:35.21 | Lope | SerajewelKS, thanks bud. okay I soft rebooted and I'm logged into the busybox. |
| 21:35.27 | wxb | karlpinc, And yes, I cd'd there. |
| 21:35.39 | karlpinc | wxb: But it did not download? |
| 21:36.00 | Lope | SerajewelKS, at least I've got some busybox skills. I just did `cat /proc/partitions` |
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| 21:36.09 | SerajewelKS | Lope: did it give you some error? |
| 21:36.19 | karlpinc | wxb: (Makes me wonder if the 4 other packages are on your flash drive, or only dependences.) |
| 21:36.34 | SerajewelKS | Lope: or is it waiting for the crypt password? |
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| 21:36.55 | Lope | SerajewelKS, the error occurs after I enter the password (which gets applied to 7 luks volumes) and the system starts booting forreal |
| 21:37.22 | Lope | SerajewelKS, they haven't connected the KVM for me yet so I don't know what the error is. |
| 21:37.34 | Justin683 | Got a question Iâm trying to sideload parrotOS on my laptop and when I have the bios set to legacy mode it grub fails to see I have a windows partition and wants to overwrite my mbr which I get thatâs fine I just donât feel like reinstalling windows again because grub doesnât see that partition. However if I boot in uefi grub2 sees the partition why is it in legacy mode it doesnât??? I rather have legacy |
| 21:37.34 | SerajewelKS | Lope: hrm that makes things very difficult |
| 21:37.34 | Justin683 | mode set in bios because I have windows 10 and XP partitions |
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| 21:37.54 | SerajewelKS | Lope: we need to know what went wrong to be able to fix it |
| 21:38.00 | Lope | I'm logged in to busybox. That's correct. It's waiting for a password. I've tried running `cryptsetup` but got "command not found" |
| 21:38.29 | Lope | SerajewelKS, not necessarily. if I can mount the root fs then I can comment out the swap line, my bet is that's the problem. |
| 21:39.08 | wxb | karlpinc, My bad, I was looking in the flash drive folder. |
| 21:39.11 | wxb | It's there. |
| 21:39.18 | wxb | So Do the same as before? |
| 21:39.29 | SerajewelKS | Lope: i really doubt swap is the issue. if cryptsetup is missing then the initrd can't open the luks volumes... |
| 21:39.31 | *** join/#debian winy (~vince@gre92-13-83-156-229-210.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:39.39 | karlpinc | wxb: Yup, repeat. mount and all. don't forget to umount when you're done. |
| 21:39.46 | SerajewelKS | Lope: i don't know why cryptsetup would be missing, but... |
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| 21:39.53 | karlpinc | wxb: (When it comes to configuring wifi I won't be able to help.) |
| 21:40.41 | Lope | SerajewelKS, cryptsetup is there, but maybe I have to find it's exact path. |
| 21:41.08 | kadiro | ah i got something, i have stresh debian, may be i need to use buster |
| 21:41.23 | karlpinc | Lope: I agree with SerajewelKS, I don't think the problem is swap. But I'm not so up-to-date so take that with a grain of salt. |
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| 21:41.53 | karlpinc | kadiro: Yes. A newer system will help. Be sure to follow the instructions in the release notes for upgrading buster. |
| 21:41.55 | wxb | karlpinc, Same errors. |
| 21:42.06 | SerajewelKS | "copy_exec /sbin/cryptsetup" |
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| 21:42.16 | karlpinc | kadiro: Appendix A has the "quick version". |
| 21:42.22 | SerajewelKS | Lope: cryptsetup should be in your path. if not then i'm fairly certain that's the problem. |
| 21:42.25 | kadiro | karlpinc, it seems it is stable i mean the buster release? |
| 21:42.30 | kadiro | ok |
| 21:42.36 | Lope | SerajewelKS, cool, I found /bin/cryptroot-unlock |
| 21:42.38 | wxb | Maybe it's cause I'm is su? |
| 21:42.48 | *** join/#debian vizius00 (vizius00@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/vizius00) |
| 21:42.53 | SerajewelKS | Lope: that just gives the password to the script that's waiting for the passphrase |
| 21:42.58 | karlpinc | wxb: You should "su -" not "su". |
| 21:42.59 | SerajewelKS | Lope: does /sbin/cryptsetup exist? |
| 21:43.20 | Lope | but when I ran that and entered the key it said blah set up successfully. Then dropbear ended, meaning the boot process continued. |
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| 21:43.45 | SerajewelKS | i don't know how to explain that |
| 21:43.47 | wxb | karlpinc, Should I add user to sudoers and try again? |
| 21:44.00 | karlpinc | wxb: su - is fine |
| 21:44.08 | Lope | SerajewelKS, it's normal for dropbear to end once the password is successfully entered. |
| 21:44.15 | SerajewelKS | yes, i know, i also use it |
| 21:44.31 | SerajewelKS | and yet... cryptsetup isn't present where the initramfs hooks would put it |
| 21:44.33 | Lope | SerajewelKS, the weird thing is I want to enter the password to unlock the root fs, but I want to prevent the system from booting further. |
| 21:44.35 | karlpinc | wxb: Check $PATH and see that it has /sbin and /usr/sbin/ and so forth. |
| 21:44.42 | karlpinc | wxb: echo $PATH |
| 21:44.45 | wxb | karlpinc, It's working :)! |
| 21:45.08 | wxb | with su - instead of su |
| 21:45.11 | SerajewelKS | Lope: what does 'ls /sbin/cryptsetup' say? |
| 21:45.20 | Lope | SerajewelKS, brilliant. it's at /sbin/cryptsetup, as you said. |
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| 21:45.27 | SerajewelKS | aha so that's good |
| 21:45.32 | karlpinc | !tell wxb about su |
| 21:45.32 | Lope | so I'll try mount the root |
| 21:45.38 | SerajewelKS | weird that /sbin isn't in PATH though |
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| 21:45.56 | wxb | karlpinc, cool |
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| 21:46.16 | karlpinc | wxb: Because it's a kernel module it won't hurt to reboot once it is installed to activate it. (I don't do dkms, so don't know if a reboot is really required or not.) |
| 21:46.33 | wxb | karlpinc, So, all that installed |
| 21:46.40 | karlpinc | wxb: (and if you reboot you won't have to umount. :) |
| 21:46.46 | wxb | Going for the reboot |
| 21:47.26 | *** join/#debian Clarth (~Clarth@2a01:4f8:c2c:114e::1) |
| 21:47.44 | karlpinc | SerajewelKS: You're talking about the "su"? See the <su> factoid. |
| 21:47.55 | SerajewelKS | karlpinc: no |
| 21:47.56 | Lope | SerajewelKS, okay I successfully opened the luks of the rootfs. But now how can I mount it? the usual linux mount didn't work. |
| 21:48.11 | Lope | `mount /dev/mapper/foo /tmp/rootfs` |
| 21:48.14 | SerajewelKS | karlpinc: not unless dropbear in initrd has the same caveat |
| 21:48.31 | SerajewelKS | Lope: what does "didn't work" mean? |
| 21:48.32 | karlpinc | SerajewelKS: :) |
| 21:48.34 | *** join/#debian uniqdom (~uniqdom@ip-254-236-219-201.nextelmovil.cl) |
| 21:48.55 | Lope | SerajewelKS, oh I probably have to run mount via an absolute path to the mount program? |
| 21:49.09 | SerajewelKS | maybe, i don't know what error you got because you didn't say :) |
| 21:49.09 | Lope | mount: mounting /dev/mapper/md3 on /tmp/rootfs/ failed: Invalid argument |
| 21:49.29 | SerajewelKS | you might have to use -t to name the filesystem |
| 21:49.37 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay. I'm in. Now I'll see if I can install a DE |
| 21:49.38 | SerajewelKS | i don't know how much of the automagic is in the initrd |
| 21:49.40 | karlpinc | Lope: /tmp/rootfs exists? |
| 21:49.41 | kadiro | it looks everything is good, the upgrade part have to download about 550 M, it will take may be about an hour or so |
| 21:49.45 | wxb | karlpinc, Thanks for all your help. |
| 21:49.46 | Lope | hehe, i can't remember, it's either xfs or ext4. |
| 21:49.51 | karlpinc | wxb: First check network. Then update security. |
| 21:49.53 | Lope | I'll try xfs |
| 21:50.02 | karlpinc | wxb: Then do tasksel to install a de. |
| 21:50.08 | Lope | lol, xfs it is! |
| 21:50.32 | Lope | brilliant, i mounted it' |
| 21:50.36 | Lope | But there's no nano! |
| 21:50.50 | Lope | how can I comment out the swap line? |
| 21:50.55 | karlpinc | wxb: network works? |
| 21:51.06 | Lope | vi I suppose? I don't know how to use vi. |
| 21:51.13 | karlpinc | Lope: Er, I think there's a vi. |
| 21:51.14 | SerajewelKS | Lope: does the initrd have sed? |
| 21:51.16 | wxb | karlpinc, I don't know how to find out... |
| 21:51.25 | karlpinc | wxb: ping -n 8.8.8.8 |
| 21:51.43 | wxb | network is not accessible |
| 21:51.44 | karlpinc | wxb: Then Ctrl-c to exit. It should start telling you right away if it pings. |
| 21:51.52 | Lope | okay I opened it with vi. I went to insert mode, inserted a hash. How can I save the file now? |
| 21:52.07 | karlpinc | Lope: Esc to exit insert mode. |
| 21:52.17 | Lope | and to save? |
| 21:52.20 | karlpinc | Lope: ":w" (I think) |
| 21:52.26 | Lope | What is : ? |
| 21:52.33 | SerajewelKS | enters command mode |
| 21:52.36 | SerajewelKS | (when not in insert mode) |
| 21:52.38 | karlpinc | :q to exit |
| 21:52.39 | *** join/#debian bipolar (~bipolar@24.229.42.138) |
| 21:52.41 | SerajewelKS | :wq to save and quit at once |
| 21:52.52 | Lope | what is : |
| 21:53.01 | SerajewelKS | i just told you? |
| 21:53.08 | kadiro | i forget to same some services, i fear they will be overriden |
| 21:53.09 | Lope | i must literally type a colon? |
| 21:53.12 | SerajewelKS | yes |
| 21:53.14 | karlpinc | wxb: Let's see if the network is up. |
| 21:53.16 | Lope | alrighty then |
| 21:53.43 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay! |
| 21:53.54 | Lope | SerajewelKS, karlpinc thanks. :wq did the trick. |
| 21:53.59 | karlpinc | wxb: "ip link" will tell you what interfaces exist. The wifi should be listed, somewher. |
| 21:54.00 | SerajewelKS | cool |
| 21:54.20 | Lope | Will try reboot now. |
| 21:54.28 | wxb | karlpinc, lo and enp3SO |
| 21:54.30 | Lope | or just unlock actually. |
| 21:54.30 | karlpinc | wxb: The other thing to do is to look at the boot logs in /var/log/messages |
| 21:54.47 | SerajewelKS | if you are going to unlock, unmount and close first |
| 21:54.59 | SerajewelKS | i don't know what the cryptroot scripts will do if it's already open and mounted |
| 21:55.09 | karlpinc | wxb: So it does not look like the broadcomm interface is there. I'm not the best person to deal with wireless problems. |
| 21:55.11 | Lope | I did unmount first :) thanks. this is not my first rodeo :P |
| 21:55.26 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay. Thanks! |
| 21:55.45 | wxb | How can I solve these problems? Any wireless experts out there? |
| 21:56.09 | *** join/#debian bipolar (~bipolar@24.229.42.138) |
| 21:56.25 | Lope | that's weird. it wouldn't accept my password now when I tried to run cryptroot-unlock |
| 21:56.25 | *** join/#debian preview (~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b75:8712:cc92:2cdd:eba6) |
| 21:56.32 | Lope | I tried 3x then it kicked me out lol. |
| 21:56.33 | karlpinc | wxb: Better start with a summary: You've got wireless internet and "ip link" does not show a wireless interface. |
| 21:56.41 | SerajewelKS | Lope: did you close the luks volume too? |
| 21:56.49 | wxb | karlpinc, Okay, that's better |
| 21:56.55 | Lope | SerajewelKS, ah damn! |
| 21:57.00 | Lope | I forgot to close the luks! |
| 21:57.17 | Lope | at least I unmounted the fs, so it would have finished writing to the disk |
| 21:57.31 | karlpinc | wxb: Meanwhile, poke around the dmesg output (dmesg|less) and the log and see if anything leaps out as broken. |
| 21:57.48 | *** join/#debian bipolar (~bipolar@24.229.42.138) |
| 21:57.52 | karlpinc | wxb: Check to make sure your broadcomm package really is installed. |
| 21:57.54 | wxb | I've got a wirless card which I think broadcom-sta-dkms deals with. I installed it and all dependencies via flash drive and dpkg. Now when I run ip link, no wifi is detected... Any thoughts? thanks! |
| 21:58.29 | Lope | okay, moment of truth |
| 21:58.58 | Lope | YES! |
| 21:58.59 | Lope | booted |
| 21:59.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1541] by debhelper |
| 21:59.08 | Lope | with the swap line commented out. |
| 21:59.09 | SerajewelKS | man that makes no sense to me |
| 21:59.17 | SerajewelKS | what happens if you uncomment the line and run swapon -a |
| 21:59.18 | *** join/#debian peterS (~peter@ip68-103-156-72.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 21:59.24 | Lope | SerajewelKS, karlpinc thanks for the help guys *G* |
| 21:59.30 | *** join/#debian Garbanzo (~Garbanzo@2602:304:6eac:dc10::46) |
| 21:59.31 | SerajewelKS | i've never seen a system fail to boot because swap couldn't activate :/ |
| 21:59.31 | wxb | karlpinc, Yep, it's installed. Did the sudo -s check |
| 21:59.39 | Lope | SerajewelKS, do you want me to get a kernel panic? hahaha |
| 21:59.46 | SerajewelKS | Lope: it's not going to panic |
| 22:00.06 | Lope | Ok will try for your interest. |
| 22:00.33 | *** join/#debian vizius00 (vizius00@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/vizius00) |
| 22:00.41 | Lope | swapon: /dev/mapper/encrypted-swap: read swap header failed |
| 22:00.52 | Lope | nothing much. |
| 22:00.59 | SerajewelKS | Lope: 'mkswap /dev/mapper/encrypted-swap' then try again |
| 22:01.00 | Lope | But I guess it was enough to stop the system from booting. |
| 22:01.11 | Lope | SerajewelKS, what about your random encrypted swap idea? |
| 22:01.15 | SerajewelKS | yeah that should not have been a hard fail |
| 22:01.32 | Lope | but you know SerajewelKS I think my original plan with luks is better. |
| 22:01.35 | SerajewelKS | Lope: they both use the same fstab line, only the crypttab line changes |
| 22:01.37 | Lope | The system should boot faster. |
| 22:01.37 | *** join/#debian K4r4k (~K4r4k@5072873B.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 22:01.45 | Lope | I want to minimize downtime when I reboot. |
| 22:01.57 | SerajewelKS | maybe but not much, the amount of data read from urandom isn't that much |
| 22:02.10 | *** join/#debian PwnKitteh (~PwnKitteh@dhcp-v016-210.mobile.uci.edu) |
| 22:02.13 | Lope | if it has to bugger around making a new encryption story and making swap etc that's slower than just using one that's already made. |
| 22:02.30 | wxb | I did dmesg|less and it is panicic just a string of vertical ~ down the side with (END) at the bottom. |
| 22:02.33 | SerajewelKS | sure. by a second or two. |
| 22:02.41 | *** join/#debian ponyofdeath (~vladi@2600:1700:89c0:a210::49) |
| 22:02.45 | SerajewelKS | anyway, run mkswap and try swapon again |
| 22:02.47 | Lope | I'll just leave it as is. Okay I'll mkswap now. |
| 22:03.43 | Lope | cool it worked. cat /proc/swaps shows it there. |
| 22:04.20 | SerajewelKS | could try rebooting now to see what happens |
| 22:04.30 | Lope | yeah will reboot now |
| 22:05.38 | SerajewelKS | still seems really odd to me that boot would fail because swap couldn't activate. that's the perfect example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. |
| 22:06.37 | Lope | SerajewelKS, I normally echo the password into /lib/cryptsetup/passfifo |
| 22:06.48 | wxb | I see nothing about wifi in dmesg|less output |
| 22:06.59 | *** join/#debian dvs (~hibbard@cwv.teksavvy.com) |
| 22:07.17 | Lope | but that other binary /bin/cryptroot-unlock is nice, because it says success (which is nice to see) then it blocks until dropbear gets terminated. |
| 22:07.28 | Lope | so I'm interested to see if I can echo the password into that instead. |
| 22:07.30 | *** join/#debian thePiGrepper (~nagato@190.236.207.147) |
| 22:07.46 | Lope | SerajewelKS, the server booted flawlessly :) |
| 22:08.03 | SerajewelKS | if swap did cause that i'd call a bug on it in some package. systemd maybe. |
| 22:08.07 | wxb | I'm stuck in dmesg|less |
| 22:08.13 | cinesc | is there an equivalent of freon for kde? |
| 22:08.50 | Lope | SerajewelKS, seems stupid as hell to prevent a server booting, when it has 64GiB of RAM and it can't get the swap to activate. |
| 22:09.08 | SerajewelKS | Lope: exactly, IMO that shouldn't happen and i've never had it happen on any of my systems |
| 22:09.25 | SerajewelKS | Lope: and my setup is almost surely more complex that your setup :) |
| 22:09.25 | Lope | well have you ever tried to boot with unmade swap? |
| 22:09.38 | Lope | haha I think I'll give your setup a run for it's money. |
| 22:09.41 | SerajewelKS | not unmade, but other errors (device not existing) |
| 22:10.04 | Lope | SerajewelKS, I've got 7 luks in my system's crypttab hahaa |
| 22:10.30 | SerajewelKS | i have / in LVM in LUKS in md-raid1 and i have a secondary volume in LUKS in md-raid5 where one of the members is an iscsi target |
| 22:10.42 | SerajewelKS | Lope: hmm sounds like you really want LVM... |
| 22:11.12 | Lope | SerajewelKS, nah, I'm using ZFS |
| 22:11.21 | *** join/#debian chalcedony (~chalcedon@unaffiliated/chalcedony) |
| 22:11.22 | SerajewelKS | so is that 7 physical disks? |
| 22:11.35 | cinesc | is there a kde specific forum here at freenode? |
| 22:11.35 | SerajewelKS | well, physical from your server's perspective anyway |
| 22:12.50 | Lope | no, it's 2 SSDs with 4 raid arrays and 2 other LUKS partitions on each SSD. Then there's hard disks. Oh so when I add the hard disks it'll be 9 LUKS. |
| 22:13.05 | *** join/#debian thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) |
| 22:13.05 | wxb | So, any thoughts on getting this wifi going? |
| 22:13.25 | Lope | I would have preferred 1 luks per disk, but the ZFS people get very upset if you mention the idea of putting ZFS in LVM. |
| 22:13.37 | Lope | (even though I've done it once before. don't tell them) |
| 22:13.39 | *** join/#debian ToAsTeR` (~toaster@72.53.118.162) |
| 22:13.44 | wskyx | /6/ |
| 22:14.12 | SerajewelKS | Lope: you can partition md-raid devices, i would not be surprised if you could partition luks devices as well |
| 22:14.15 | *** join/#debian ezrezrezr (~ezrezrezr@2a01:e35:8a1d:3f40:c02d:df5f:67e7:7006) |
| 22:14.32 | Lope | SerajewelKS, you cannot partition luks devices. I tried. |
| 22:15.02 | SerajewelKS | you could make a one-device raid1 from the luks device then partition that.... heh |
| 22:15.25 | Lope | partitioning md devices wouldn't have solved my problem unless I did that haha. But that's also more complexity. |
| 22:15.30 | Lope | I'm happy with a ton of LUKS |
| 22:15.33 | Lope | good luks |
| 22:15.47 | SerajewelKS | yeah it wasn't a serious suggestion |
| 22:15.51 | Lope | at least the ZFS zealots won't be upset with me. |
| 22:15.52 | SerajewelKS | you want LUKS inside of md-raid anyway |
| 22:16.05 | Lope | SerajewelKS, I've got that yeah. |
| 22:16.09 | Lope | for the ones that are md. |
| 22:16.24 | SerajewelKS | i was just saying that technically md-raid on LUKS on md-raid would give you a topmost layer you could partition |
| 22:16.27 | Lope | zfs likes do do some stuff with raw disks |
| 22:16.35 | Lope | for other stuff it likes md |
| 22:16.50 | SerajewelKS | but i can't say why ZFS would do better on LUKS than on LVM |
| 22:17.05 | graphicsv | How exactly are the Debian packages changelog generated? |
| 22:17.07 | wxb | Si ip link is not giving me any wifi card output. I just tried installing the non-free driver, but it still won't detect. What can I do to solve this? |
| 22:17.08 | SerajewelKS | if it makes that much of a difference then ZFS must be some buggy shit |
| 22:17.11 | graphicsv | How exactly are the Debian packages changelog generated? |
| 22:17.25 | Lope | SerajewelKS, their criticism is actually of using LVM |
| 22:17.46 | Lope | They hate the idea of ZFS going thru LVM to get to the disk. |
| 22:17.58 | Lope | it makes them lose their shit. |
| 22:18.00 | *** join/#debian zeden (~user@unaffiliated/zeden) |
| 22:18.03 | *** join/#debian n-iCe (~nice@Aircrack-NG/User/n-iCe) |
| 22:18.04 | SerajewelKS | i know, i'm saying they're silly |
| 22:18.13 | SerajewelKS | it already has to go through LUKS and md-raid |
| 22:18.34 | Lope | haha especially on an SSD, but whatever. I make them happy so they can (hopefully not need to) help me if I ever need it :P |
| 22:19.16 | SerajewelKS | i'd guess their point is to use ZFS features to manage storage instead of LVM with multiple ZFS PVs |
| 22:19.24 | *** join/#debian tyranny12 (~blarg@unaffiliated/tyranny12) |
| 22:20.31 | SerajewelKS | pats his ext4 volumes |
| 22:20.43 | *** join/#debian h0n3ycl0ud (~h0n3ycl0u@unaffiliated/h0n3ycl0ud) |
| 22:21.01 | Lope | I must say linux is simply amazing. |
| 22:21.17 | SerajewelKS | yes it is |
| 22:21.22 | Lope | The fact that you can take a running system and swap the disks out from under it while it's running feels amazing to me. |
| 22:22.05 | SerajewelKS | i did some math and found that adding more SATA ports to an existing system is more work/cost than a NAS |
| 22:22.16 | SerajewelKS | and cheaper than a NAS per bay is an odroid-hc2 |
| 22:22.28 | SerajewelKS | so i got a few of those and put a disk in them, set them up as iscsi targets |
| 22:22.36 | SerajewelKS | my server uses them like they're physically attached |
| 22:22.52 | Lope | SerajewelKS, nbd? |
| 22:23.02 | SerajewelKS | hmm? |
| 22:23.04 | *** join/#debian inonzur (~inonzur@c-67-174-98-247.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 22:23.08 | Lope | network block devices? |
| 22:23.24 | Lope | I'm not familiar with iscsi |
| 22:23.26 | SerajewelKS | NBD is a different protocol than iSCSI but they accomplish much the same thing |
| 22:23.33 | Lope | alrighty |
| 22:23.43 | *** join/#debian zeden (~user@unaffiliated/zeden) |
| 22:23.46 | SerajewelKS | with both you can export an entire disk over the network |
| 22:23.52 | Lope | NBD is very unforgiving of a lan cable being unplugged or a system being hibernated etc. |
| 22:24.08 | SerajewelKS | so i'm using my previously-unused NIC on the server as a storage network device basically |
| 22:24.11 | SerajewelKS | it's pretty sweet |
| 22:24.13 | Lope | better to run nfs or sshfs where possible I reckon. |
| 22:24.26 | SerajewelKS | depends on your goal |
| 22:24.26 | Lope | Unless stuff won't get unplugged or slept. |
| 22:24.29 | *** join/#debian Immanuel (~Manu@dynamic-adsl-94-34-5-62.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 22:24.44 | SerajewelKS | nfs/sshfs can't give me a disk i can add to a raid5 |
| 22:24.58 | Lope | fair enough. |
| 22:25.00 | SerajewelKS | unless you put a big file on there and use lo devices and that's a terrible idea |
| 22:25.20 | *** join/#debian deavmiHurdLaptop (~deavmi@41.164.24.82) |
| 22:25.21 | SerajewelKS | you do not want raw storage access going through userspace |
| 22:25.36 | SerajewelKS | if you ever put swap on there you can run into a situation where you loop infinitely trying to page stuff out |
| 22:25.51 | Lope | The thing I was using nbd for once was that I had a HDD with unused space in a windows machine. and i didn't want to trust the windows machine. So I had vmware share a partition via nbd |
| 22:25.58 | SerajewelKS | sshfs asks for more memory, kernel tries to swap out, triggers a write to sshfs, loop starts over |
| 22:25.59 | Lope | worked well. |
| 22:26.23 | Lope | then I put luks on the NBD, mounted remotely of course. |
| 22:26.43 | SerajewelKS | i did some research into nbd vs iscsi. the opinions were that iscsi is more mature and stable and has dramatically fewer issues. |
| 22:26.53 | Lope | ok |
| 22:26.57 | Lope | never tried iscsi |
| 22:27.07 | SerajewelKS | nbd is theoretically faster, i think. but in my case the bottleneck is the disk anyway, so the network speed doesn't much matter. |
| 22:27.50 | SerajewelKS | if you have no knowledge of iscsi it's a pain in the ass to set up because there is a lot of domain specific knowledge and terminology. i'm comfortable with it now after tinkering for about two months. |
| 22:27.51 | *** join/#debian HelloShitty (~narayan@bl15-210-186.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 22:28.09 | Lope | <SerajewelKS> you do not want raw storage access going through userspace << yeah of course I would only use filesharing in a situation where you trust all devices and are just storing files. Anything special like raid and so on of course you've gotta have block access. |
| 22:28.28 | SerajewelKS | right. i don't necessarily mean for security though, but for guarantees. |
| 22:28.41 | *** join/#debian rebrec (~rebrec@82-64-53-213.subs.proxad.net) |
| 22:28.43 | Lope | SerajewelKS, I'm quite interested in the new orange pi lite2's |
| 22:28.53 | SerajewelKS | if you put swap on a device that exists in a path through userspace you can accidentally swap-death your machine |
| 22:28.59 | SerajewelKS | ask me how i know that |
| 22:29.01 | Lope | they've got USB3 and 802.11ac for $25 |
| 22:29.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1548] by debhelper |
| 22:29.31 | Lope | unfortunately no GbE. But that should be coming soon. |
| 22:29.35 | SerajewelKS | Lope: nice. check out odroid-hc2 as well. |
| 22:30.02 | SerajewelKS | Lope: hc2 has true GbE (i tested with iperf and got ~970Mbps) and built-in SATA over USB3 |
| 22:30.03 | Lope | odroid have really nice stuff, but costs quite a bit more than the orange pi things. |
| 22:30.27 | SerajewelKS | yeah. but still cheaper than any NAS i found by a factor of 2. |
| 22:30.27 | Lope | Still pretty cheap though. |
| 22:30.41 | Lope | And who wants to run some shitty NAS, no thanks. |
| 22:30.51 | SerajewelKS | price of NAS divided by bay count, nothing came close to the HC2's |
| 22:30.52 | *** join/#debian fstd (~fstd@unaffiliated/fisted) |
| 22:30.54 | SerajewelKS | i have two right now, they work great |
| 22:31.05 | Lope | The other nice thing about the H6 is in theory it should have AES acceleration. because the H5 has. |
| 22:31.06 | SerajewelKS | i had to buy a fan and point it at them though, heh |
| 22:31.18 | Lope | does the HC2 have AES? |
| 22:31.23 | SerajewelKS | no idea |
| 22:31.34 | Lope | cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep aes |
| 22:31.38 | SerajewelKS | i do LUKS on the initiator end of iscsi though |
| 22:31.56 | Lope | oh, that's very nice. |
| 22:32.07 | SerajewelKS | half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpv4 idiva idivt vfpd32 lpae |
| 22:32.18 | SerajewelKS | it's an 8-core cortex-A7 |
| 22:32.22 | Lope | looks like no AES |
| 22:32.39 | *** join/#debian bashquest (~bash0r@94.242.220.173) |
| 22:32.40 | *** join/#debian bashquest (~bash0r@unaffiliated/bashquest) |
| 22:32.52 | Lope | there are H5 boards cheap as chips also. But no USB3 |
| 22:33.13 | SerajewelKS | but yeah these boxes just export the storage over the network. the iscsi initiator (client) puts a luks layer on it, so the HC2 doesn't have to do encryption. neither can it read the device contents. |
| 22:33.28 | SerajewelKS | the CPU and RAM honestly are a bit of a waste, heh |
| 22:33.42 | SerajewelKS | it was designed to be able to be a cheap one-disk NAS running stuff like owncloud |
| 22:34.09 | SerajewelKS | i'm just using it as a storage interface. the CPU pretty much always 0%. |
| 22:34.22 | Lope | what some people do with the H2+ H3 and H5 etc because they've got 4 real USB2 ports is they connect 4 USB drives to them, to make a 4 drive NAS. You could do more of course with hubs, but couldn't access all drives at the full USB2 speed of course. |
| 22:34.47 | SerajewelKS | yeah |
| 22:34.52 | *** join/#debian chalcedony (~chalcedon@unaffiliated/chalcedony) |
| 22:35.26 | Lope | but yeah, i had a NanoPi Neo2 as a router. With gigabit eth and a HDD connected to a USB2 port. And although the diff between gigabit eth and USB2 isn't mind blowing, I did feel the pain of USB2 from time to time. |
| 22:35.27 | SerajewelKS | the HC2's ethernet port is USB as well. but it's all USB3. |
| 22:35.35 | Lope | yeah. |
| 22:35.42 | SerajewelKS | so it can use the full gigabit throughput |
| 22:36.15 | SerajewelKS | i did performance tests on the HC2 itself and on the iscsi client, the numbers were pretty much identical |
| 22:36.18 | Lope | yeah, it's nice when SBC's have GbE but I've realized all you really need is USB3. |
| 22:36.28 | SerajewelKS | which means the USB3 controller can handle the network traffic and disk I/O without becoming the bottleneck |
| 22:36.31 | Lope | I really like the USB3 hubs that have 3 USB3 ports and 1 GbE |
| 22:37.05 | SerajewelKS | the HC2's also have a USB3 port so you can have two disks, one SATA and one USB |
| 22:37.17 | SerajewelKS | i would have preferred an additional USB port but oh well |
| 22:37.33 | Lope | Yeah, it's good to remember that USB3.0 is 5 gigabit. So you could in theory run 5 gigabit eth ports at full speed off a single USB3 port. |
| 22:37.36 | cinesc | how do I update an individual package in the terminal? |
| 22:37.55 | Lope | SerajewelKS, just add a USB3 hub. |
| 22:37.57 | SerajewelKS | cinesc: 'apt-get install packagename' should install a newer version |
| 22:38.03 | cinesc | ok |
| 22:38.26 | SerajewelKS | Lope: i'll have to look into that. right now it's an academic discussion because i don't have extra USB disks to use with them |
| 22:38.27 | Lope | SerajewelKS, it's funny that all these SBC's are basically smartphone SoC's |
| 22:38.43 | Lope | but it's also quite funny that some of them have Fast Ethernet built into the SoC. |
| 22:39.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1542] by debhelper |
| 22:39.06 | Lope | Then to think there are millions of smartphones with FastEthernet capabilities unused hehe. |
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| 22:39.27 | cinesc | thanks |
| 22:39.32 | SerajewelKS | np |
| 22:40.11 | cinesc | although I wish the package I wanted to update would get a newer version than what I installed |
| 22:40.25 | SerajewelKS | cinesc: did you run apt-get update first? |
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| 22:40.36 | cinesc | no |
| 22:40.42 | SerajewelKS | do that |
| 22:40.49 | Lope | The H2+ and H3 (and I think H5 and H6) have fast ethernet built in... the ones that have GbE have a full, discreet Gigabit eth chip on the board. |
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| 22:41.35 | cinesc | the commando worked but the result was the same in the end |
| 22:41.43 | SerajewelKS | i wonder how long before we start seeing SOC's with SFP |
| 22:41.43 | Lope | These SoC's have some very fast I/O pins that are not USB. It's preferable if they are used. |
| 22:41.58 | SerajewelKS | cinesc: then there isn't an update available for that package |
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| 22:42.35 | Lope | SerajewelKS, I'm really excited about the Udoo bolt or whatever it's called. That AMD thingy. But my god it's overpriced. It's like $500 for the full version. |
| 22:43.07 | cinesc | kind of disappointed that the rest that package did feels a little incomplete even if it´s by far better than before |
| 22:43.10 | Lope | I'm hoping AMD gets properly into the SBC market. I'd love me some x64 SBC's. |
| 22:44.07 | cinesc | I wonder, are ryzen 3rd gen even better at security than previous generations though? |
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| 22:44.44 | Lope | cinesc, I'm sure 3rd gen will be even better at security yes. They'll have spectre fixes in silicon. |
| 22:44.53 | cinesc | cool |
| 22:45.06 | Lope | The Epyc encrypt VM's RAM which is pretty awesome. |
| 22:45.10 | Lope | Intel is dead to me. |
| 22:45.10 | cinesc | Now I want to get a few of those ryzens even more |
| 22:45.22 | cinesc | same |
| 22:45.28 | cinesc | @Lope |
| 22:45.45 | Lope | Listing the intel security vulnerabilities is like an essay. |
| 22:45.49 | godane | ok so i noticed something odd with testing (bullseye) repo |
| 22:45.57 | SerajewelKS | i used to use AMD then switched to intel. been thinking seriously of switching back. |
| 22:45.58 | cinesc | they messed up the security part and I have experienced the effects in person |
| 22:46.12 | somiaj | godane: #debian-next on irc.oftc.net for testing/unstable support. |
| 22:46.17 | Lope | and my intel server kept powering off with the one recent microcode update. |
| 22:46.28 | Lope | the customers were really happy about it. |
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| 22:46.58 | cinesc | Wonder what is a good amd laptop though? |
| 22:47.03 | tsunamy | hi |
| 22:47.09 | cinesc | hi you too |
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| 22:48.31 | cinesc | my laptop seems fine after that microcode update |
| 22:48.55 | wasamasa | you mean it's not off worse? |
| 22:49.16 | blakkheim | if a package in sid is very outdated and the maintainer doesn't reply to emails, what's the most-likely-to-work method of getting it updated? |
| 22:49.19 | cinesc | so far maybe slower than before but I have only tested spore |
| 22:49.45 | SerajewelKS | blakkheim: request the package be orphaned, become a debian developer, and adopt it |
| 22:49.57 | Lope | cinesc, there aren't a huge amount of ryzen choices for laptops last time I checked. but no doubt they're coming. Microsoft's new top of the line surface will be using AMD. Their budget options will use intel. |
| 22:50.06 | blakkheim | SerajewelKS: i could probably do that. is there a page to read on the actual process? |
| 22:50.19 | SerajewelKS | blakkheim: which part? |
| 22:50.21 | cinesc | is there any that doesn´t ape a macbook? |
| 22:50.28 | blakkheim | requesting it to be orphaned |
| 22:51.10 | SerajewelKS | blakkheim: hmm actually i don't think you can orphan a package unless you are the maintainer |
| 22:51.19 | SerajewelKS | blakkheim: you'd have to request to adopt the package yourself |
| 22:51.28 | SerajewelKS | blakkheim: or find a current debian developer willing to adopt it |
| 22:51.44 | Lope | SerajewelKS, I've rebooted with my last 2 LUKS devices added. So got 9 now. Beat that. |
| 22:51.59 | SerajewelKS | Lope: no thanks |
| 22:52.07 | blakkheim | SerajewelKS: got it. basically, who should i contact if the current maintainer is unresponsive? |
| 22:52.40 | SerajewelKS | Lope: i have 11 raid PVs though, with LUKS on top of two of them |
| 22:52.46 | SerajewelKS | two of the arrays, i mean |
| 22:52.56 | SerajewelKS | 5 PVs to make those two arrays |
| 22:53.14 | SerajewelKS | blakkheim: unless you want to take the package over yourself, there isn't really anyone to contact |
| 22:53.36 | cinesc | wonder if there is a new laptop that still has a charger port at the back? |
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| 22:54.01 | cinesc | among other ports to connect acbles into |
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| 22:54.17 | SerajewelKS | blakkheim: if you do want to adopt it yourself, after becoming a debian developer you'd file a bug against the wnpp package |
| 22:55.23 | blakkheim | alright |
| 22:56.47 | cinesc | is there any good cpu that uses or can use drr3 ram that isn´t intel? |
| 22:56.58 | cinesc | ddr3l* |
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| 23:01.14 | Lope | SerajewelKS, cool. goodnight |
| 23:01.20 | SerajewelKS | Lope: night |
| 23:01.38 | Lope | ratrace, SerajewelKS. finished my setup 100% and I'm super stoked! Huge upgrade for me. |
| 23:01.48 | SerajewelKS | Lope: congrats and enjoy! |
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| 23:02.51 | Lope | My old server was 16G RAM on dual 1TB rust, no encryption. This new server is 64G RAM, 2x240G SSDs 2x4T HDDs, encryption cache, zil. Etc. So looking forward to using it. |
| 23:03.26 | Lope | out |
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| 23:29.29 | kadiro | wow after upgrading to buster my script magically works cool |
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| 23:31.36 | kadiro | karlpinc, thank you very much |
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| 23:39.44 | kadiro | what the meaning of: "The following packages have been kept back:" when doing an apt-get upgrade |
| 23:40.09 | wxb | Okay. So ##linux helped be to get the broadcom detected, but I still can't see wifi networks and much less connect to them. |
| 23:40.27 | wxb | nmcli device wifi list is empty |
| 23:40.27 | dvs | kadiro, it means that there are packages that need to install new packages. |
| 23:40.42 | wxb | nmcli radio shows all enabled. |
| 23:40.50 | wxb | Any thoughts? |
| 23:40.59 | kadiro | dvs, how do i force install them |
| 23:41.20 | dvs | kadiro, apt-get full-upgrade |
| 23:41.22 | somiaj | kadiro: pay attention to upgrade vs dist-upgrade (some packages require removing old packages to upgrade, and apt won't let this) |
| 23:41.32 | kadiro | in the end of that list it show this: 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 878 not upgraded. |
| 23:41.44 | somiaj | kadiro: this shouldn't happen in stable, but if you are running testing/unstable happens way more often (what versino of debian are you running)? |
| 23:41.48 | kadiro | ah |
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| 23:42.19 | kadiro | I just replaced stretch to buster in the source.list and upgraded |
| 23:42.44 | kadiro | I'm in buster |
| 23:42.52 | cinesc | is that how you correctly update the debian version? |
| 23:42.57 | dvs | not yet, but soon |
| 23:43.20 | cinesc | how do you usually upgrade to a new version? |
| 23:43.25 | dvs | cinesc, there are release notes for each major release which outlines what needs to be done. |
| 23:43.31 | cinesc | ok |
| 23:43.46 | kadiro | cinesc, apt-get update then apt-get upgrade |
| 23:44.10 | cinesc | to get from debian 9 to debian 10? |
| 23:44.29 | kadiro | that what i did, not sure if i'm correct |
| 23:44.43 | cinesc | Don´t think it works that way |
| 23:44.44 | jmcnaught | https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html you missed a step or two |
| 23:45.16 | aaro | kadiro: you're not, read docs first |
| 23:45.19 | cinesc | It´s rather how you update to the latest possible of what version you use |
| 23:45.46 | cinesc | Highest I can think of being possible would be debian 9.9 or something like that |
| 23:46.31 | kadiro | i think i need to fresh install |
| 23:46.51 | cinesc | been thinking about that too |
| 23:47.11 | cinesc | might give one computer a reinstall twice |
| 23:47.57 | wxb | I think the issue is at wlp2s0. nmcli device wifi list says: wlp20 wifi disconnected -- |
| 23:48.04 | kadiro | jmcnaught, which section exactly i need to follow from that link |
| 23:48.24 | jmcnaught | kadiro: read the whole release notes is my advice |
| 23:48.30 | wxb | tried to follow this too https://nullr0ute.com/2016/09/connect-to-a-wireless-network-using-command-line-nmcli/ |
| 23:48.31 | kadiro | oh |
| 23:49.10 | kadiro | I don't think with my little english i can understand the whole thing, thank you anyway |
| 23:49.41 | jmcnaught | kadiro: it's available in other languages: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/releasenotes |
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| 23:51.21 | cinesc | apt-get install was functionally similar when you upgrade after using the update variation of the command? |
| 23:51.34 | cinesc | to when* |
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| 23:58.34 | cinesc | is pcsuggest a reliable source? |
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