| 00:00.03 | greatgatsby | so how do I get * without manually editing /etc/shadow (which feels very wrong) |
| 00:00.06 | dka | My debian prompt password for a different user when I try to install sensitive package |
| 00:00.11 | dka | how can I change it? |
| 00:00.38 | rany | greatgatsby, I understand, I'm not very familiar with Debian |
| 00:00.47 | rany | but FreeBSD uses `pw` which can disable passwords |
| 00:00.52 | greatgatsby | ok - thanks anyway |
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| 00:03.24 | rany | greatgatsby, according to the debian manual they seem to be the same: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch04.en.html#_normal_unix_authentication |
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| 00:03.40 | rany | check table "Table 4.2" |
| 00:05.33 | greatgatsby | hmmmm... ok, that's pretty re-assuring. |
| 00:05.36 | greatgatsby | thanks |
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| 00:52.09 | tom_tomson | hi |
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| 01:14.03 | debuser_ | Hi. anyone here who's familiar w/ hardware enablement issues? |
| 01:14.20 | dvs | !ask |
| 01:14.20 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
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| 01:18.01 | debuser_ | I've got this ASUS Transformer Book T100TAS device, it's a 2-in-1 tablet with BayTrail chipset. Debian mostly supports it, however the backlight adjustment doesn't work properly - while it _does_ work out-of-the-box in Fedora Linux. And yes, I've tries the things that people usually point to when it comes to backlight support - no effect. Now I'm wondering if there's some weird Intel proprietary firmware that Debian |
| 01:18.01 | debuser_ | doesn't ship properly, even in its non-free images, whereas Fedora does. How can I debug this? |
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| 01:21.20 | debuser_ | anyone who has encountered similar devices and/or issues? |
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| 01:47.37 | Guest24409 | Guys, I am running Deb10 and am having issues with my displayport. I have installed the NVIDIA drivers, but no success. I have searched the web for insights, but so far, no luck. The machine is a Lenovo T420. Any ideas? Thanks. |
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| 01:48.31 | sponix | Guest24409: install inxi and run inxi -Gxx | nc termbin.com 9999 give the link it provides |
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| 02:10.53 | phatphillips | supppp |
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| 02:26.51 | rany | is deb.debian.org slow for everyone or is it just me? |
| 02:27.03 | rany | i'm getting 30kb/s now :/ |
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| 02:28.51 | sponix | rany: its just you |
| 02:29.46 | rany | thanks, will see what is wrong on my end |
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| 02:41.08 | Delf | Can anyone confirm that "multi-seat" (Multiple gpu's with gdm3) is broken? Debian Stable |
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| 02:45.29 | rany | after disable iwd and reenabling wpasupplicant, my problem with apt has been solved |
| 02:45.41 | rany | iwd causes weird problems with wifi speed it seems |
| 02:46.15 | rany | still impressive how much faster connecting to a AP is using iwd over wpasupplicant |
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| 03:13.06 | TwistedFate | guys, i'm having problems with locales, how can i fix them? https://paste.debian.net/hidden/220fc0a9/ |
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| 03:35.15 | whislock | TwistedFate: Uncomment sr_RS.UTF-8 in /etc/locale.gen, then try again. |
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| 04:00.50 | annadane | TwistedFate, and if you do that you need to run "locale-gen" |
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| 04:02.12 | annadane | TwistedFate, so the changes take effect |
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| 04:09.26 | Gigglebyte | Awhile back someone recommended that I use APK to backup a cell phone that won't allow apps to be installed. Do I need a USB micro to USB micro cable in order to accomplish this? |
| 04:11.40 | sponix | Gigglebyte: do you have any idea what your talking about ? |
| 04:12.29 | Gigglebyte | sponic> Yes, and No. Yes in the sense someone referred me to this site to backup my phone https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7076240/install-an-apk-file-from-command-prompt And no in the sense that I know what is going on. |
| 04:13.25 | Gigglebyte | sponix> What do I need to do to get all of the data off my phone, and migrate it over to the new phone. No app can be installed on the old phone because the OS is fowled, and became fowled after an update about 6+ months ago. |
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| 04:14.30 | sponix | Gigglebyte: what phone is it that you have ? |
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| 04:15.57 | Gigglebyte | sponix> ZTE, model number Z557BL, and further in the settings area it says Baseband version Z557BLB01 |
| 04:16.22 | Gigglebyte | Phone is a bit primitive, and doesn't offer a method of erasing cache within an ap. |
| 04:17.09 | sponix | Gigglebyte: sounds Android, so your Contacts and everything should be linked to a Google account and stored there if you are smart (some phones default to storing them locally instead) |
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| 04:17.46 | sponix | So what are we retrieving off of this phone ? ... Selfies ? |
| 04:18.12 | Gigglebyte | contacts tool has an export feature that allows data to be saved as cv or spreadsheet. But this isn't the case with notes which is also real important. Additionally I would like to preserve the current programs. |
| 04:18.23 | Gigglebyte | sponix> I want to retrieve everything. |
| 04:19.22 | Gigglebyte | sponix> There is a case to be made for running linux instead of the Android OS. |
| 04:19.49 | sponix | lol .. Not on most "Phones" ;) |
| 04:20.20 | sponix | without even being able to sideload an app... Not sure how much recovery you are gonna be able to do |
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| 04:20.26 | TwistedFate | annadane: that actually worked,, thanks! |
| 04:20.35 | TwistedFate | erm whislock |
| 04:20.53 | TwistedFate | and annadane i guess, i did both |
| 04:21.01 | sponix | I mean, you can pull pics off by just jacking it into your Rig with a USB cable and saying yes to the prompt on the phone to share, most of the time :) |
| 04:22.12 | Gigglebyte | Most pics can be backed up via Google. As mentioned earlier the real issue is notes which doesn't offer an export tool. |
| 04:22.27 | Gigglebyte | Looking back it looks like I need to do more backups. |
| 04:22.36 | Gigglebyte | Also don't allow auto installs. |
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| 04:30.58 | Gigglebyte | Are there any Android recovery tools in the repo? |
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| 04:51.49 | Gigglebyte | According to this page the phone can be backed up using Chroot, but it is fairly involved https://cryptojedi.org/misc/nexuss-debian.shtml |
| 04:53.09 | sponix | you might wanna hit xda forum and see if you have better luck :) |
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| 05:18.05 | user__ | hey |
| 05:18.14 | redandvidya | hello |
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| 05:57.06 | melpy | Welcome to the new world |
| 05:57.09 | ash__ | hey guys |
| 05:57.42 | ash__ | I'm trying to use my canon lide 400 scanner, its supported by libsane 1.0.28, latest on deb is 1.0.27 |
| 05:58.15 | ash__ | what is a clean way to upgrade? do I have options besides installing git version? |
| 05:58.26 | annadane | ,v libsane |
| 05:58.27 | judd | Package: libsane on amd64 -- jessie: 1.0.24-8+deb8u2; stretch: 1.0.25-4.1; buster: 1.0.27-3.2; bullseye: 1.0.27-3.2+b1; sid: 1.0.27-3.2+b1 |
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| 05:59.15 | annadane | well, you can't get it from debian. i guess the git version is your option |
| 05:59.57 | ash__ | alright thanks! |
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| 06:07.10 | annadane | (another reason why sid is not 'a rolling release') |
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| 06:08.44 | annadane | although... meh. not the best argument |
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| 06:08.48 | annadane | shut up, me |
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| 06:11.02 | annadane | you can always volunteer to package libsane for sid :-) |
| 06:12.21 | sponix | sounds like too much work for me |
| 06:12.49 | sponix | can we just email someone else already over-worked and have them do it ? |
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| 07:40.01 | Andria | Hello, I would like to create a xsession who launch "gcompris" until other gdm/xcfe etc. How could i do that ? |
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| 08:09.42 | aaii | How i can upgrade my debian to Debian 10.1 ? (my current version is 10) |
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| 08:10.54 | aaii | i used dist-upgrade but faced ("0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.") |
| 08:11.47 | wskyx | maybe your mirror is out of sync |
| 08:12.20 | rudi_s | aaii: Run apt update first, then apt upgrade, then apt full-upgrade. |
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| 08:12.28 | wskyx | i don't have 10.1 yet as well |
| 08:12.49 | rudi_s | cat /etc/debian_version should list 10.1 after this. |
| 08:12.56 | wskyx | maybe lsb didn't get updated? |
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| 08:12.58 | rudi_s | (It does on all of my Buster systems.) |
| 08:13.04 | rudi_s | lsb_release won't list 10.1. |
| 08:13.29 | aaii | rudi_s, Yup true :) |
| 08:13.31 | wskyx | and it should |
| 08:13.49 | aaii | now it showing me 10.1 |
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| 08:14.23 | aaii | Thanks guys |
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| 08:21.10 | rudi_s | np |
| 08:22.21 | mystic | debian is an anagram 'of in a bed'. explain yourselves |
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| 08:22.46 | Chex | deb+ian |
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| 08:22.59 | mystic | the hot couple in a bed |
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| 08:23.33 | wskyx | ian is no more however, rip |
| 08:23.44 | aaii | :)) |
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| 08:24.40 | fighter_fish | hello |
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| 08:38.19 | gidna | Hello |
| 08:38.46 | gidna | I want setxkbmap -layout it,ru -variant ,phonetic -option grp:shifts_toggle to be permanent so I saved it to .profile |
| 08:38.52 | gidna | but it is not working |
| 08:41.08 | rudi_s | gidna: Try ~/.xsessionrc |
| 08:41.19 | rudi_s | .profile is most likely not loaded when staring an X session |
| 08:42.08 | gidna | rudi_s, I don't have that file in my home dir |
| 08:43.15 | ratrace | yea you need .xsessionrc for that. create it if it's not there |
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| 08:44.05 | gidna | ok let's try if it works |
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| 10:47.31 | B|ack0p | hi |
| 10:47.36 | wskyx | hi |
| 10:47.44 | B|ack0p | what debian uses? x11, wayland, xorg ? |
| 10:48.37 | wskyx | i got wayland running |
| 10:48.43 | klys | gnome uses wayland. debian uses that or xorg (you choose). both are x11 |
| 10:49.14 | B|ack0p | which one is better? wayland or xorg ? |
| 10:49.35 | Mathisen | depends on usecase |
| 10:49.43 | B|ack0p | general use |
| 10:50.32 | Mathisen | i would say it does not mather then |
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| 10:50.53 | wasamasa | if you said something like games, that would have been a clear win for xorg |
| 10:51.16 | diogenes_ | you are not able to use nvidia and remote desktop soft like teamviewer. |
| 10:51.32 | B|ack0p | well since i cant play pc games on linux i dont intend to play games on linux |
| 10:51.48 | Mathisen | sure you can play games on linux |
| 10:52.05 | B|ack0p | with wine |
| 10:52.10 | Mathisen | no native |
| 10:52.16 | B|ack0p | how? |
| 10:52.20 | Mathisen | linux steam is big nowdays |
| 10:52.24 | wasamasa | using ported games |
| 10:52.26 | B|ack0p | ah steam |
| 10:52.29 | diogenes_ | linux is future nr. 1 gaming platform. |
| 10:52.31 | wasamasa | the thing is that all of them assume you're using xorg |
| 10:52.47 | B|ack0p | so for gaming i need xorg? |
| 10:53.24 | wasamasa | for all software assuming wayland is not a thing, yes |
| 10:53.54 | B|ack0p | so can i play all pc games in steam on linux? |
| 10:54.07 | Mathisen | the one that suport it so not all |
| 10:54.11 | B|ack0p | such as age of empire 2 - nfs games .. |
| 10:54.18 | B|ack0p | caesar 3 |
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| 10:54.22 | B|ack0p | diablo 2-3 |
| 10:54.30 | Mathisen | but many have proton/wine suport that makes it posible that way in an easy way a "1 click done" way |
| 10:54.30 | B|ack0p | simcity |
| 10:54.31 | wasamasa | games are a good example of this since they tend to not be free software, don't get updates often and are stuck to legacy technology |
| 10:54.32 | annadane | *general* use? xorg, because not everything works under wayland yet |
| 10:54.35 | B|ack0p | civilization |
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| 10:54.59 | wasamasa | whereas it's way easier to make other software working under wayland |
| 10:55.01 | annadane | wayland will get much better as of debian 11 |
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| 10:56.36 | Mathisen | B|ack0p, this page is a good way to see games that does not suport linux but can easly be played with proton and steam > https://www.protondb.com/ |
| 10:57.50 | annadane | well actually what i said is fairly ignorant |
| 10:57.53 | annadane | i shouldn't presume |
| 10:58.17 | B|ack0p | Mathisen: i have game archieve between late 90s early 2000s i dont think i can play all of them on linux |
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| 10:58.38 | wasamasa | such is life |
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| 10:59.23 | Mathisen | maybe not all but i would think many. it is easyer these days to get em working. and wine-staging is really good in my opinion atleast have had luck with 99% of the ones i tried just the online games that make issues with anti cheat systems and such |
| 10:59.44 | annadane | i use wine stable personally, that's just me |
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| 11:00.30 | B|ack0p | i would love to migrate to linux fully one day.. but for office purposes and games i still need windows as dual boot |
| 11:02.15 | Mathisen | yeah i also dual boot still for program specfic reasons |
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| 11:08.57 | humpled | :v |
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| 11:09.14 | annadane | kicks humpled |
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| 11:09.48 | humpled | you can't kick me i have supercyberpowers |
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| 12:08.21 | wxb | Hi, on a Thinkpad here. I installed Debian 10 on it a few months back via flash drive, but now am unable to boot from a flash drive. I don't know what is going on. Yesterday here people advised that I test the flash drive. It works fine. I just tested a 32 bit iso on a different machine, it worked fine, but on this one I can't select 'flash drive' from the boot menu. I looked in the BIOS and boot from usb is enabled. Any ideas what might be |
| 12:08.21 | wxb | going on? |
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| 12:11.36 | rany | wxb, are you on UEFI or BIOS? |
| 12:11.43 | rany | s/BIOS/CSM Mode/ |
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| 12:11.58 | wxb | rany, BIOS I'm pretty sure. |
| 12:12.20 | rany | are you sure you set 0x80 flag on partition of USB? |
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| 12:12.43 | wxb | rany, www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X61 |
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| 12:13.29 | wxb | rany, The flash drive boots on a different machine... I formated to FAT, then used sudo dd if=/home/user/Téléchargements/debian-10.0.0-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=4M && sync |
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| 12:14.20 | RoyK | wxb: no reason to "format" it before the dd |
| 12:14.44 | wxb | What I don't get is that it used to boot from flash drive : the proof is that Debian is now on it. But I don't recall changing anything, and I spend a good while looking around in the BIOS menu to figure things out, but boot from USB is enabled. |
| 12:15.30 | wxb | RoyK, Ah, good to know! So if I have a bootable Debian netinstall usb, I don't have to wipe it before rerunning dd to make a bootabled XFCE sub? |
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| 12:16.21 | debuser_ | Hi. anyone here who's familiar w/ hardware enablement issues? |
| 12:16.23 | rany | wxb, you can think of dd as restoring a drive |
| 12:17.05 | rany | dd restores a drive to a state according to an image |
| 12:17.21 | rany | sorry, if i am confusing you... :( |
| 12:18.04 | wxb | rany, I think that makes senses, dd wipes anyway, so, no need to wipe beforehand? |
| 12:18.28 | rany | no, dd wipes everything for you |
| 12:19.08 | ratrace | !tell debuser_ about anyone |
| 12:19.32 | debuser_ | I've got this ASUS Transformer Book T100TAS device, it's a 2-in-1 tablet with BayTrail chipset. Debian mostly supports it, however the backlight adjustment doesn't work properly - while it _does_ work out-of-the-box in Fedora Linux. And yes, I've tried the things that people usually point to when it comes to backlight support - no effect. |
| 12:19.34 | debuser_ | Now I'm wondering if there's some weird Intel proprietary firmware that Debian doesn't ship properly, even in its non-free images, whereas Fedora does. How can I debug this? |
| 12:19.41 | wxb | rany, Cool. So dd is working great, but why would it not be detected on this machine? Is it possible that the usb ports are 'inacive' on boot? and so do'nt detect the flash drive? |
| 12:20.19 | debuser_ | anyone who has encountered similar devices and/or issues? |
| 12:20.21 | wxb | debuser_, What iso did you use? Have you drive the firmware iso? |
| 12:20.46 | wxb | But I guess Fedora doesn't ship with anything non free anyway, so it shouldn't change anything... |
| 12:20.53 | RoyK | wxb: dd will do the necessary wiping, that is, just overwriting |
| 12:20.53 | debuser_ | wxb, the non-free firmware one, I'm quite sure about this because it's needed for Wifi support anyway |
| 12:21.24 | wxb | RoyK, Cool :) Thanks : that'll save me a step! |
| 12:21.24 | debuser_ | wxb, Fedora ships firmware that's non-free per Debian policies |
| 12:21.26 | rany | wxb, fedora ships with non-free blobs by default |
| 12:21.54 | wxb | rany, debuser_ Ah! I had no idea ! I thought they were as strict as Debian... |
| 12:22.12 | wxb | but with firmware iso, it's kinda the same, as Fedora for that, no? |
| 12:22.18 | debuser_ | wxb, and anecdotally, it seems to ship with _way_ more firmware blobs than Debian does |
| 12:22.26 | rany | they have different policy only for drivers and hardware, for software they are just as strict as debian |
| 12:22.43 | wxb | debuser_, Hmmmmm... which makes it work OFB |
| 12:23.15 | wxb | Is there a setting within Debian that could prevent the ThinkPad from detecting the flash drive at boot? |
| 12:23.19 | debuser_ | wxb, what I've figured out is that the Debian firmware-non-free maintainers cherrypick stuff to include, whereas Fedora seems to take a more whholesale approach |
| 12:23.41 | wxb | debuser_, Put it ALL in :) |
| 12:23.53 | wxb | debuser_, That way everything will work. |
| 12:23.56 | debuser_ | wxb, so we would need to figure out what firmware this is relying on, and file a bug asking for it to be included |
| 12:23.58 | rany | wxb, well, what boot options do you have on your screen? |
| 12:24.03 | ratrace | usually there's hint of missing firmware in dmesg |
| 12:24.11 | ratrace | debuser_: ^^^ |
| 12:24.13 | wxb | debuser_, Don't know if it's a bug, persay... |
| 12:24.34 | rany | wxb, can you try choosing CDROM? IIRC my BIOS puts USBs as CDROMs... |
| 12:24.37 | wxb | ratrace, the HDD and the PCI something I believe |
| 12:24.57 | rephlexie | https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96571 |
| 12:25.17 | wxb | rany, I only have two options, tried them both, one is the HDD, one is some install via intel something that didn't give me the flash drive. |
| 12:25.36 | wxb | I tried changing the order in the boot menu to priortise USB anything, to no avail. |
| 12:25.38 | rany | wxb, do you have any option to enable UEFI? |
| 12:25.40 | humpled | my bios puts usbs as an alternative hard drive which don't show up unless they're plugged in |
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| 12:25.52 | rany | or is this just really old ... |
| 12:25.56 | wxb | rany, Thinkpad X61 BIOS is from like 2008 |
| 12:25.58 | wxb | I think |
| 12:26.08 | wxb | rany, www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X61 |
| 12:26.14 | rany | maybe its a buggy BIOS |
| 12:26.27 | wxb | rany, Then I'm stuck.... |
| 12:26.42 | rany | do you have a CDROM drive? |
| 12:26.45 | wxb | Oh dear, because updating a BIOS is super risky, no? |
| 12:26.50 | rany | can you burn the ISO to a CD? |
| 12:26.51 | wxb | rany, External, yes. |
| 12:27.05 | rany | try that ... i used to do that for Windows PE |
| 12:27.07 | debuser_ | wxb, I may well try that next. It's not that easy for me because I'd like to actually use the device, and disk space is tight. What I would like to know is if anyone has encountered similar issues where the backlight didn't work on some hardware - if so, they might want to try Fedora instead |
| 12:27.29 | wxb | rany, But why would this have workred before? |
| 12:27.43 | debuser_ | rephlexie, nice find. |
| 12:28.05 | rany | wxb, can you tell what type of partition your USB reports? |
| 12:28.08 | wxb | rany, Also, in the end, the question is purely theoretical, I just wanted to test out some live isos, but not replace my Debian 10 that is working. |
| 12:28.24 | wxb | rany, Sure, but I don't know what commands to issue... |
| 12:28.31 | rany | wxb, do you have gparted? |
| 12:28.41 | debuser_ | rephlexie, could someone file a bug in the BTS so that Debian fixes this as well? |
| 12:28.55 | wxb | rany, Yep. |
| 12:29.02 | wxb | debuser_, Is this actually a bug? |
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| 12:29.22 | wxb | debuser_, Not having the required firmware isn't a bug necessarily... |
| 12:29.36 | rany | wxb, what is the partitions reported as? |
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| 12:30.12 | rephlexie | debuser_, Not just you yeah, T100* backlight wise has been a no go since June at the earliest, best of luck though, neat device. |
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| 12:30.33 | debuser_ | wxb, it seems to be. it's an initialization-order issue actually |
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| 12:30.43 | rany | if its iso9660, then your image is only for CDs |
| 12:31.04 | wxb | rany, But the same flashdrive booted on a different machine! |
| 12:31.08 | wxb | with same iso |
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| 12:31.40 | wxb | rany, but yes, it is in fact iso9660... |
| 12:31.41 | debuser_ | rephlexie, you're saying you actually have the hardware? If so you can definitely help deal with this. my model works perfectly w/ Fedora so it might be possible |
| 12:32.12 | wxb | rany, But, same issue with firmware iso (and MX, and Mint if that's important...) |
| 12:32.21 | wxb | Should I change the BIOS? |
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| 12:32.38 | rany | wxb, format the usb to fat32 and use unetbootin |
| 12:32.54 | rany | wxb, also wipe the whole partition table to msdos |
| 12:33.22 | rany | bioses can't boot iso9660 images... |
| 12:33.27 | twdwk2 | i need quick and dirty way to recursively move data diferences bewteen folders. folder1 , folder 2, folder3. folder1 i know has more data then folder2, so i want the differences copied to folder3. |
| 12:33.30 | twdwk2 | that possible? |
| 12:33.43 | rany | rsync? |
| 12:33.46 | rany | twdwk2, ^ |
| 12:34.00 | twdwk2 | with 1 command? |
| 12:34.03 | twdwk2 | or a couple? |
| 12:34.09 | rany | a couple |
| 12:34.32 | twdwk2 | a dry run and print differences to folder, then a 2nd command to actually move data differences? |
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| 12:34.39 | twdwk2 | to file* |
| 12:34.42 | hugo_ | Hello everyone, i have a problem with Trash and a mounted mdadm. i can't move a file to trash, but only definitively delete. My fstab option is just "defaults". Could you help me ? thanks for your help. |
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| 12:35.00 | debuser_ | rephlexie, though it seems the Fedora folks pushed some fixes upstream relatively recently. so my next step is to download a teating live iso and test that. (32-bit, because live isos don't support tthe multiboot hack for 32-bit EFI :( ) |
| 12:35.01 | rany | twdwk2, what do you mean differences? |
| 12:35.09 | twdwk2 | the data differences |
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| 12:35.23 | wxb | rany, Should this work if I dd it : firmware-10.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 12:35.32 | rany | wxb, no dd won't work |
| 12:35.37 | rany | wxb, you have to use unetbootin |
| 12:36.03 | rany | its an appimage, you can't find it in repos |
| 12:36.04 | qman__ | debian builds hybrid iso files that you can write directly to USB flash |
| 12:36.09 | twdwk2 | rany: i added 2tb of data to folder1 which now has 8tb, folder 2 has the older 6tb, and i want only the newer 2tb of data added copied to folder3 |
| 12:36.09 | wxb | wxb, What? It's not even in the rebos... |
| 12:36.15 | humpled | there are separate hybrid images and cd only images in debian |
| 12:36.18 | qman__ | but that doesn't mean that normal iso files can be used that way |
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| 12:36.29 | rany | wxb, https://unetbootin.github.io/linux_download.html |
| 12:36.33 | humpled | what that guy said |
| 12:36.35 | wxb | Okay... I'm lost. |
| 12:36.41 | twdwk2 | hence, the differences between the 2 folders moved to the 3rd folder |
| 12:36.54 | ratrace | hugo_: "Trash" is usually a concept dealt with desktop environment file managers. what exactly are you talking about? |
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| 12:37.03 | wxb | So, why did that same flash drive and same iso boot a differnt computer? |
| 12:37.06 | rany | wxb, unetbootin extracts the iso to the fat32 partition and makes it bootable for your bios |
| 12:37.08 | humpled | unetbootin may work or may introduce another whole set of misalignments and confusions |
| 12:37.18 | wxb | Asus EEEpc |
| 12:37.40 | wxb | I was told to avoid unetbootin. |
| 12:37.41 | rany | wxb, but recreate partition table as msdos and create a fat32 partition yourself |
| 12:37.46 | debuser_ | wxb, isn't Asus EEEpc a 32-bit device? you'd need Debian x86 surely? |
| 12:38.35 | twdwk2 | rany: my headache, kinda https://serverfault.com/questions/506005/compare-2-directories-and-copy-differences-in-a-3rd-directory |
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| 12:38.40 | wxb | debuser_, Yep, I tested with a 32 iso on the Asus (32 bit) it worked and the Thinkpad (64) fails with everthing - doesn't even detect it! |
| 12:39.10 | rany | wxb, isn't your machine x86? |
| 12:39.18 | rany | wxb, why are you using the amd64 image? |
| 12:39.58 | debuser_ | wxb, that's relatively normal especially with UEFI. debian does offer a "multiboot" installer that works w/ everything though. |
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| 12:41.23 | wxb | rany, Wait, what should I use for X86? |
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| 12:41.41 | wxb | rany, Is that for SSD? |
| 12:41.58 | hugo_ | ratrace, yes yes are right. I have mounted my mdadm raid1 array on my destop and when i right click on a file in the mount (desktop environment) i have ony the option : "definitively delete" ! |
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| 12:42.10 | hugo_ | * you are right |
| 12:42.30 | debuser_ | wxb, download the i386 iso? |
| 12:42.37 | rany | wxb, your processor should either be x86 or amd64 |
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| 12:43.02 | wxb | rany, But, isn't amd64 for x86?? |
| 12:43.16 | wxb | rany, That's what the site says... https://www.debian.org/distrib/ |
| 12:43.16 | ratrace | hugo_: which file manager is that? |
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| 12:43.18 | rany | wxb, no they are totally different! |
| 12:43.29 | rany | wxb, amd64 means 64bit intel |
| 12:43.41 | rany | x32 means 32bit intel |
| 12:43.43 | debuser_ | wxb, amd64 is a 64-bit variety of x86. _most_ Asus EEEpc models don't support it. |
| 12:43.47 | rany | s/x32/x86/ |
| 12:44.11 | rany | debuser_, he is trying to run this on a thinkpad not eeepc |
| 12:44.13 | wxb | rany, image ISO "netinst" pour PC 64 bits gives: debian-10.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
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| 12:44.25 | hugo_ | ratrace, nautilus |
| 12:45.43 | wxb | rany, https://paste.debian.net/hidden/7f29d304/ |
| 12:45.49 | ratrace | hugo_: which filesystem is on that raid? |
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| 12:46.18 | wxb | Regardless, the 32 bit iso should boot on the Thinkpad! Something is wrong with the machine... But what... |
| 12:46.25 | hugo_ | ratrace, ext4 (/dev/md0p1: UUID="56add018-9eca-475a-95b8-602681895aa2" TYPE="ext4" PARTUUID="eccbd45f-01") |
| 12:46.42 | rany | wxb, you should boot the amd64 image |
| 12:46.42 | debuser_ | wxb, not if the ThinkPad uses UEFI, surely |
| 12:46.46 | Latrina | Guys, anyone know how can I change the fonts size in Polaris irc client? |
| 12:46.57 | wxb | debuser_, Its BIOS, from 2008. |
| 12:47.06 | wxb | rany, I tried that and it didn't work. |
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| 12:47.30 | wxb | rany, Also lscpu says that 32 bit works too : Mode(s) opératoire(s) des processeurs : 32-bit, 64-bit |
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| 12:47.42 | wxb | !anyone |
| 12:47.42 | dpkg | Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>. |
| 12:47.44 | ratrace | hugo_: Nautilus is supposed to create a hidden .Trash-<uid> directory on every filesystem it deletes stuff on, so if it doesn't, check if it can (or if you can delete at all), maybe the fs is read-only? |
| 12:48.01 | ratrace | wxb: they just asked :) |
| 12:48.39 | wxb | ratrace, I just love that command because it's so useless and passive agressive. It was a bad joke. Sorry lol |
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| 12:49.02 | ratrace | it'd be appropriate if the question was "anyone using polaris irc client" :) |
| 12:49.31 | debuser_ | wxb, try using the GNOME disk utility to "restore" your iso image to the USB stick. it's always been flawless in my experience and you avoid careless mistakes. then carefully check your BIOS settings on the thinkpad. you may also want to try replacing your USB media |
| 12:49.41 | wxb | ratrace, True. I just get trigger-happy whenever I read 'anyone' and use it when I shouln't. Sorry Latrina ! Good question :) |
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| 12:50.18 | rany | debuser_, a "restore" is the equivalent to running dd |
| 12:50.40 | hugo_ | ratrace, stat /home/myUser/.local/share/Trash/ |grep ^Acc |
| 12:50.40 | hugo_ | Accès : (0700/drwx------) UID : ( 1000/ myUser) GID : ( 1000/ myUser) |
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| 12:50.44 | wxb | debuser_, Thanks for the idea. Flash drive is new, same flash drive with same iso boot on other machines, so it really shouldn't be the flash drive! I'm at a loss. |
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| 12:51.27 | rany | wxb, in the thinkwiki they mention something regarding SATA and AHCI ... |
| 12:51.31 | ratrace | hugo_: is that the path on the mounted raid1? |
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| 12:52.42 | wxb | I'm pretty sure I boot the thinkpad with a flash drive that I dd 'ed with Lubuntu on the asus (and then I used the Thinkpad to put Debian on the Asus lol), so maybe the machine is failing? Kinda worried... |
| 12:52.57 | Latrina | wxb: not sure what you meant there :S |
| 12:53.37 | wxb | Latrina, Just ignore me! Someone here will likely be able to help! |
| 12:53.45 | Latrina | thx |
| 12:53.48 | wxb | :) |
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| 12:55.43 | twdwk2 | rsync confusion. |
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| 12:58.07 | twdwk2 | https://paste.debian.net/1113129/ |
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| 12:58.19 | twdwk2 | why is rsync wanting to send all 2Tb? |
| 12:58.26 | twdwk2 | if i issued a diff compare? |
| 12:59.16 | wxb | Okay, thanks for the ideas. I'll try to solve it another time. Got to go. Cheers! |
| 12:59.19 | twdwk2 | unless i'm misuderstanding the output of rsync |
| 12:59.36 | annadane | most people do. :P |
| 12:59.39 | twdwk2 | :/ |
| 13:00.02 | debuser_ | wxb, if you _really_ want to put Debian on that thinkpad, you could take the drive out, put it in a USB enclosure and install onto the resulting USB device w/ a different machine. it should work as long as you're somewhat careful wrt. the bootloader install step |
| 13:00.05 | twdwk2 | i'm using this as reference https://lists.samba.org/archive/rsync/2006-June/015827.html |
| 13:00.45 | debuser_ | wxb, of course image the drive before so you can restore if things don't work properly |
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| 13:03.16 | ratrace | twdwk2: what exactly are you trying to do? your paste doesn't include the rsync command you tried |
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| 13:03.52 | twdwk2 | :/rsync -av --progress --compare-dest=/mnt/cudas/media/movies /pool20/media/movies/ /mnt/shitdrives/rsyncdifference/ |
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| 13:04.28 | hugo_ | ratrace, https://pastebin.com/raw/yfEtMaYb |
| 13:04.33 | twdwk2 | cudas is read only, pool20 has all of cudas, and then some additional, i need the additional differences copied to a 3rd location/ |
| 13:05.03 | twdwk2 | that command, started to copy everything, the first few files it started i know haven't been added recently to pool20 |
| 13:05.08 | hugo_ | ratrace, my trash is my user trash on '/home/hugo/.local/share/Trash' |
| 13:06.17 | ratrace | hugo_: yea but afaik Nautilus creates a .Trash folder ON the mounted filesystems themselves, if you delete anything there. is the mounted filesystem writable to you? in which case can you delete at all |
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| 13:07.59 | twdwk2 | that rsync command started to copy folders that were present on the /cudas and /pool20 paths, to /shitdrives. so. no good. |
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| 13:10.56 | twdwk2 | SO, using https://lists.samba.org/archive/rsync/2006-June/015827.html as reference, that command isn't doing what i want based upon results. |
| 13:11.00 | twdwk2 | i'm stumped. |
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| 13:11.54 | hugo_ | ratrace, No problem to create a new content (folder, files) on my RAID folder, the permission of the new file are good. But when i right click, i can only definitively delete (no simple delete possible) |
| 13:11.56 | twdwk2 | unless i mixed up the ABC, but i'm sure i didn't. /mnt/cudas is my baseline of comparision, and mounted as readonly just to be safe. |
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| 13:12.44 | ratrace | twdwk2: what's the end goal you're trying to achieve? according to the manpage, files found in cudas dir, if identical to pool20 files, will not be transfered (from pool20) to shitdrive |
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| 13:13.41 | ratrace | so the question is, are they identical (timestamp, size, content) and is the relative dir hierarchy the same under those two dirs |
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| 13:14.24 | twdwk2 | i've added additional content to pool20 after it was mirrored from cudas. i need the additional differences copied to shitdrives |
| 13:14.49 | twdwk2 | did i mix up my paths? |
| 13:15.26 | twdwk2 | i need to destroy the pool20 pool, and i don't have enough free space to blindly copy everything |
| 13:16.21 | ratrace | twdwk2: I don't know, read carefully what the manpage says. for each file under --compare-dest directory, if it's found to be the same as the file at the same relative path under SRC, then the file will not be transferred from SRC to DEST |
| 13:17.05 | ratrace | twdwk2: why just not rsync from SRC to DEST? it'll only transfer over files that are different, or don't exist in DEST but do in SRC. What do you have under CMP (--compare-dest)? |
| 13:17.22 | a0z | be aware that trailing slashes affect rsync behaviour, i don't know if it is relevant here |
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| 13:17.38 | twdwk2 | a0z: i was just thinking that too.... |
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| 13:18.38 | twdwk2 | shitdrives is totally empty dir, that's where i want the differences copied too |
| 13:18.39 | ratrace | looks to me the only use case for --compare-dest would be to prevent sending over files NOT present under DEST, according to a list from this --compare-dest |
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| 13:19.16 | twdwk2 | cudas is read only, pool20 is goign to be destroyed, so i want the updated content from pool20 copied to a 3rd location. |
| 13:19.18 | hugo_ | ratrace, thanks a lot for your help. It works now : the solution was --> https://pastebin.com/raw/192NWynv |
| 13:19.29 | ratrace | twdwk2: right so you want to transfer over files that are NOT present in the --compare-dest? |
| 13:19.31 | twdwk2 | pool20 has all of cudas, and then some |
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| 13:20.10 | ratrace | hugo_: yes but that seems hacky. looks like your mounted path does not belong to your user or is not writable to it? is that expected? |
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| 13:20.25 | twdwk2 | no, incorrect. i want the trasfer files over that are present on pool20, but not cudas |
| 13:20.43 | twdwk2 | wait, |
| 13:20.45 | B|ack0p | i am trying to change grub menu to debian colors with white/blue - cyan/blue |
| 13:20.50 | B|ack0p | but it doesnt change |
| 13:21.05 | twdwk2 | i need to copy files from pool20 that are not present on cudas. |
| 13:21.11 | twdwk2 | there we go |
| 13:21.13 | twdwk2 | ^ |
| 13:21.46 | ratrace | twdwk2: okay I think you're missing a traing slash on that cudas path then |
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| 13:22.36 | ratrace | or not, wait, that's the --compare-dest path..... gah you confused me now lol |
| 13:22.37 | twdwk2 | it basically printed everything , old and new |
| 13:22.52 | twdwk2 | i know! i'm sorry! but thanks for the help! |
| 13:23.05 | B|ack0p | i did : sudo chmod -x /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme + sudo update-initramfs -u + sudo update-grub |
| 13:23.21 | B|ack0p | but still it shows white/black - black/light-gray colors |
| 13:23.22 | hugo_ | ratrace, i dont really understand but when i delete content on my RAID, content are also move in my true user Trash directory (/home/hugo/.local/share/Trash)... So content in /home/hugo/RAID/Trash-1000/files/ are also in /home/hugo/.local/share/Trash/... |
| 13:23.32 | hugo_ | but works now |
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| 13:24.02 | twdwk2 | so should pool20 be my compare destiation? old and new content? |
| 13:24.09 | ratrace | hugo_: stat /home/hugo/RAID and pastebin please |
| 13:24.11 | twdwk2 | and not the archived cudas? |
| 13:24.29 | twdwk2 | i'm confused why it's wanting to copy all 11tb, not the 200Gb differences... |
| 13:24.52 | ratrace | twdwk2: not if you're trying to copy FROM pool20 TO shitdrives but ONLY files NOT present UNDER cudas |
| 13:25.27 | ratrace | twdwk2: btw that rsync will eat a megaton of RAM to transfer over 11tb of stuffs, just a heads up |
| 13:25.29 | hugo_ | ratrace, /home/hugo/RAID belongs to "root"... but contents inside belongs to my "hugo" user |
| 13:25.49 | hugo_ | ratrace, --> Accès : (0755/drwxr-xr-x) UID : ( 0/ root) GID : ( 0/ root) |
| 13:26.08 | twdwk2 | rsync -av --progress --dry-run --compare-dest=/mnt/cudas/media/movies/ /pool20/media/movies/ /mnt/shitdrives/rsyncdifference |
| 13:26.14 | ratrace | hugo_: yes that's the problem I was referring to. you can chown that dir, AFTER you've mounted it, if that's what you want. the mounted filesystem "root" -- do you want it owned by your user? |
| 13:26.18 | twdwk2 | it's trying to copy everything. |
| 13:26.40 | twdwk2 | it's printing out paths that are the same on both paths |
| 13:26.45 | twdwk2 | folders* |
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| 13:27.19 | twdwk2 | timestamps, persmissions, etc, is all irrevelant. just the folder's and sizes |
| 13:27.25 | ratrace | twdwk2: question is, are they the SAME? if there's difference in timestamps or uids, rsync will go ahead and transfer the file (using delta so if ONLY those two are different, it'll skip content mostly) |
| 13:27.39 | ratrace | twdwk2: it's not irrelevant, that's how rsync detects changes |
| 13:27.41 | hugo_ | ratrace, RAID folder has to accessible to all user on my machine |
| 13:27.45 | twdwk2 | oh, --size only woudl help? |
| 13:27.46 | twdwk2 | ha |
| 13:27.52 | ratrace | mmmmh-hmm |
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| 13:29.31 | B|ack0p | this is 05_debian_theme i customized: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/g94KxRhVBY/ |
| 13:29.32 | hugo_ | ratrace, do you know some fstab option in order boot time does not wait my RAID mount folder ? I would like my boot be faster |
| 13:29.34 | ratrace | hugo_: problem is then, if another user mounts it and deletes something in a directory accessible to them, then for THEM that .Trash you just chowned to yourself will not work |
| 13:29.56 | ratrace | hugo_: actaully, I'm wrong, sorry, .Trash-<uid> is the path, my bad |
| 13:30.12 | ratrace | hugo_: yes, add "nofail" to the options list |
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| 13:30.39 | ratrace | hugo_: without the quotes, of course. nofail prevents boot failing if the mount is inaccessible during boot |
| 13:31.10 | B|ack0p | i am trying to get this style: http://blog.ataboydesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/debian_install_4.png |
| 13:31.21 | B|ack0p | or similar with blue background |
| 13:31.26 | B|ack0p | now it is black bacground |
| 13:31.30 | B|ack0p | i cant get it changed |
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| 13:32.16 | ratrace | B|ack0p: isn't that the default? which Debian you have there? |
| 13:32.26 | twdwk2 | how many minutes should it take to show something after sending incremental file list? |
| 13:32.29 | twdwk2 | haha |
| 13:32.32 | B|ack0p | ratrace: it suppose to be default but it doesnt get the colors |
| 13:32.37 | B|ack0p | i dont know why |
| 13:32.43 | hugo_ | ratrace, thank you so much ! |
| 13:33.10 | B|ack0p | it still shows black background |
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| 13:34.12 | ratrace | twdwk2: on 11TB? you can go out for lunch :) |
| 13:34.46 | twdwk2 | 11tb to query or to send? i hope it's not sending all 11tb. there's only a few hundred gigs of differences |
| 13:35.07 | ratrace | since your DEST is empty, it has to compare ALL the files between SRC and CMP dirs |
| 13:35.33 | ratrace | twdwk2: question is, do you have fewer huge files, or a megaton of smaller files there? |
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| 13:35.58 | twdwk2 | yeah, i figured that. but i see no cpu usage, or network traffic between the computers |
| 13:36.23 | ratrace | twdwk2: try again with --info=progress2 |
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| 13:36.34 | ratrace | and don't use -v with that. |
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| 13:37.10 | LCRERGO | Hi, Why when I set a variable at .profile it doesn't appear globally: as in export TERMINAL="st"? |
| 13:38.33 | ratrace | LCRERGO: ~/.profile or ~/.bash_profile? or which shell are you using? |
| 13:38.46 | twdwk2 | rsync -ar --info=progress2 --progress --size-only --compare-dest=/ |
| 13:39.15 | ratrace | twdwk2: no need for --progress with --info=progress2 .. the latter will show overall progress, including scanning files for diffs |
| 13:39.20 | ratrace | and that -r is redundant with -a |
| 13:40.30 | twdwk2 | should i kill -a and use just -r? |
| 13:40.48 | ratrace | twdwk2: depends what you want to achieve. -a is shorthand for -rlgptoD |
| 13:41.24 | ratrace | I mean, you don't have to cancel it JUST for that no. doesn't matter if you did -a and -r together |
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| 13:42.53 | ratrace | B|ack0p: see if this helps: https://wiki.debian.org/Grub2#Configure_console_menu_colors |
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| 13:45.09 | twdwk2 | no netwoerk traffic, and host with cudas is reading array around 900mb sec, killing the cpu. so id imagine it's doing a depth scan |
| 13:45.22 | twdwk2 | for diff to send |
| 13:46.23 | ratrace | twdwk2: which of those is mounted remotely? |
| 13:46.36 | twdwk2 | shit drives |
| 13:46.50 | ratrace | ah yes, and that one is empty? |
| 13:46.51 | twdwk2 | and i fucking hate this stupid gnome and alt+tab shit. it groups the terminal windows. |
| 13:46.56 | twdwk2 | yes it's empty |
| 13:46.59 | ratrace | twdwk2: alt ~ |
| 13:47.11 | twdwk2 | oh. thanks. |
| 13:47.34 | LCRERGO | @ratrace in ~/.profile, I'm using zsh, but in my .zprofile I sourced .profile |
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| 13:47.58 | ratrace | LCRERGO: okay and what do you mean by "globally" then? |
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| 13:48.32 | LCRERGO | when I do an echo $variable for example it shows nothing, even tough it is set |
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| 13:48.57 | LCRERGO | or when I program in C and do a getenv(variable) it also shows nothing |
| 13:49.00 | humpled | i hate that app grouping thing too |
| 13:49.23 | ratrace | LCRERGO: any changes to shell rc is effective only for NEW shells. any existing shells you have would have to be quit and re-launched |
| 13:49.40 | B|ack0p | ratrace: let me try |
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| 13:51.33 | LCRERGO | Yes @ratrace, I know, but changes to .profile should be effective when I start my system, shouldn't them? |
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| 13:52.26 | ratrace | LCRERGO: only in shells that source .profile via .zprofile |
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| 13:53.08 | twdwk2 | hmmm. |
| 13:53.28 | twdwk2 | failed to write /path/to/ protcol not supported (93) |
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| 13:53.47 | twdwk2 | error in file IO (code 11) at receiver.c(374) |
| 13:54.05 | ratrace | twdwk2: is that nfs? smb? |
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| 13:54.55 | rander2 | hello |
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| 13:57.17 | LCRERGO | @ratrace thanks think I found my problem |
| 13:58.37 | ratrace | LCRERGO: what was it? |
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| 14:03.22 | LCRERGO | @ratrace I'm launching my WM via a tty, and even tough I'm sourcing it in my .profile the variables get set only in the tty and not in the terminals I launch in my WM |
| 14:05.14 | ratrace | LCRERGO: ah and the terminals launched in the WM are not using zsh (that's then sourcing .zprofile and in turn .profile)? |
| 14:05.55 | LCRERGO | No, actually they are using zsh |
| 14:06.53 | LCRERGO | but I suspect that they are not login shells anymore |
| 14:07.03 | LCRERGO | so they don't source .profile |
| 14:07.31 | ratrace | ah possible |
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| 14:08.43 | LCRERGO | the strange part is that in my head when I export a variable it should go it's "sons"' shells even thought I'm lauching them through a WM |
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| 14:12.49 | ratrace | LCRERGO: no, an export is valid only for that shell; each subshell would have to source the rc that defines it |
| 14:13.25 | ratrace | LCRERGO: actually no, scratch that, I was thinking of something else. wrong. |
| 14:13.31 | Habbie | the point of export |
| 14:13.33 | Habbie | yes :) |
| 14:14.17 | Habbie | LCRERGO, with /proc/<pid>/environment you could find out where your variables get lost |
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| 14:15.16 | Habbie | LCRERGO, also, what do you mean by starting your WM via tty? |
| 14:15.42 | ratrace | yeah I was thinking about WMs launching terminals being entirely separate beasts coming down from the DM/login manager, but then again it all depends on how your'e starting your WM, is it startx? startx breaks the inheritance chain |
| 14:16.15 | LCRERGO | yes I'm doing it with startx |
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| 14:18.34 | ratrace | LCRERGO: you can use the /proc environment trick Habbie mentioned to see where the chain breaks |
| 14:18.59 | ratrace | my bet is it breaks on setuid xorg server that launches your WM as a subprocess that does not inherit your original shell's env |
| 14:19.10 | Habbie | my bet is also on the setuid |
| 14:19.17 | LCRERGO | I'll do it |
| 14:19.18 | LCRERGO | ty |
| 14:19.32 | Habbie | although xorg is not suid on my box |
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| 14:20.38 | ratrace | Habbie: using startx? |
| 14:20.47 | Habbie | well i don't use startx |
| 14:20.51 | ratrace | it's needed for startx / xinit as unpriv user |
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| 14:21.21 | ratrace | well... not *needed* ... something something modesetting.... forgot what it was |
| 14:21.27 | Habbie | modeset |
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| 14:24.45 | B|ack0p | how can i change grub menu theme from default to 05_debian_theme ? |
| 14:24.53 | B|ack0p | it seems system doesnt get 05_debian_theme |
| 14:27.21 | ratrace | B|ack0p: you don't have /etc/grub/05_debian_theme? |
| 14:27.27 | ratrace | which Debian is that? |
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| 14:27.59 | B|ack0p | debian 10 |
| 14:28.11 | ratrace | B|ack0p: tried reinstall grub-common ? |
| 14:28.19 | B|ack0p | i have /etc/debian.d/05_debian_theme |
| 14:28.27 | B|ack0p | i did sudo update-grub |
| 14:28.42 | ratrace | B|ack0p: is that _really_ debian 10 or some derivation? |
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| 14:28.50 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:29.00 | B|ack0p | before that i did : sudo update-initramfs -u |
| 14:30.00 | ratrace | initramfs is irrelevant here. basically you need to set menu_color_* vars for grub.cfg. that's done by /etc/grub/05_debian_theme which is installed by grub-common . |
| 14:30.14 | ratrace | you can always set it manually via some custom file in /etc/grub/ |
| 14:30.24 | B|ack0p | oh i apologize it is not debian it is ubuntu :S wrong channel it seems |
| 14:30.30 | ratrace | but again, you should have the regular files if that's regular Debian 10 and not something entirely different |
| 14:30.39 | ratrace | *plonk* |
| 14:30.58 | B|ack0p | sorry :/ |
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| 14:31.18 | B|ack0p | isnt it same? |
| 14:31.24 | B|ack0p | i mean grub thing |
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| 14:31.26 | ratrace | OBVIOUSLY NOT :) |
| 14:32.00 | B|ack0p | ;/ |
| 14:32.07 | ratrace | ubuntu is not debian, not even based on debian, it's based on some .deb files it sources from sid every few months and then does its own thing. :) |
| 14:32.25 | B|ack0p | ok |
| 14:33.24 | B|ack0p | i cant find my usb-drive |
| 14:33.25 | ratrace | B|ack0p: and don't forget to upgrade-grub. it needs to rebuild /boot/grub/grub.cfg |
| 14:33.28 | B|ack0p | how can i install debian? |
| 14:33.39 | B|ack0p | ratrace: i did but still grub colors dont change |
| 14:34.04 | ratrace | B|ack0p: I mean after you set the menu_color* vars somehow within /etc/grub/... |
| 14:34.36 | B|ack0p | yes |
| 14:34.38 | B|ack0p | i did |
| 14:34.56 | B|ack0p | i better fresh install debian |
| 14:34.56 | ratrace | B|ack0p: and you confirm those settings appear in /boot/grub/grub.cfg ? |
| 14:35.05 | B|ack0p | hmm |
| 14:35.06 | ratrace | B|ack0p: +1 for fresh install debian :) |
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| 14:36.08 | B|ack0p | ratrace: this is /boot/grub/grub.cfg : https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wCKwZhNtgP/ |
| 14:37.06 | humpled | #ubuntu is not even that bad a channel |
| 14:37.07 | ratrace | B|ack0p: there's no menu_color_* vars in that |
| 14:37.25 | B|ack0p | nvm |
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| 14:37.42 | B|ack0p | how can i install debian without flash/cd/dvd/ ..anything? |
| 14:37.50 | ratrace | B|ack0p: but it's moot trying to help you with that, I have no idea what Ubuntu does differently there from Debian. |
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| 14:38.01 | B|ack0p | ratrace: appreciate that |
| 14:38.02 | ratrace | B|ack0p: with debootstrap |
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| 14:38.11 | B|ack0p | how is debootstrap? |
| 14:38.13 | debuser_ | B|ack0p, how did you install Ubuntu in the first place? |
| 14:38.16 | B|ack0p | is it easy for a newbiew? |
| 14:38.30 | B|ack0p | well i am in different place and i dont have my flash drive with me |
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| 14:39.16 | ratrace | B|ack0p: well it's a program that oyu can run on any linux distro that supports running it. you use it to install base debian image into a dir (that dir being your target mounted root fs), and then you chroot into it and set up grub, passwords, network, stuff needed for it to boot standalone. I'd say not easy for newbies. |
| 14:39.41 | debuser_ | B|ack0p, do you have a phone? some phones can serve USB images with a special app. |
| 14:39.52 | B|ack0p | debuser_: i have iphone |
| 14:40.05 | B|ack0p | ratrace: seems complicated... |
| 14:40.19 | B|ack0p | i have sony smart card but my laptop doesnt read it |
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| 14:40.35 | ratrace | B|ack0p: sounds complicated, but once you know what you're doing it's fairly very easy |
| 14:40.39 | humpled | grub can boot from an iso on a hard drive partition |
| 14:40.47 | humpled | boot to |
| 14:40.50 | B|ack0p | i am dual booting with win10 |
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| 14:40.57 | B|ack0p | 2 partitions |
| 14:41.08 | debuser_ | B|ack0p, why not buy a usb flash stick then? it's just a few dollars or so |
| 14:41.11 | ratrace | humpled: ah not bad, unpack iso into a partition then alter grub to boot into that? |
| 14:41.32 | B|ack0p | nvm.. |
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| 14:44.06 | debuser_ | humpled, possibly grub can boot from an iso image directly? it would only need a loopback driver, I would think |
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| 14:46.39 | humpled | https://www.howtogeek.com/196933/how-to-boot-linux-iso-images-directly-from-your-hard-drive |
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| 14:51.59 | debuser_ | okay, so the latest testing weekly image w/ non-free firmware is running kernel 5.2.0, and backlight adjustment does NOT work there (Asus Transformer Book T100TAS, BayTrail device). should I wait for 5.3 or even 5.4 to make it into testing? and if so, what would be the timeframe for that? rephlexie, u still here? |
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| 14:54.12 | debuser_ | and needless to say, I'm seeing no intel* stuff under sys/class/backlight, so that explains it not working |
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| 14:58.05 | Ede|Popede | throws something into the coffee box. that's one of the things i also wanted to do while i have an unused disk. |
| 14:58.52 | debuser_ | anyone willing to look into this? I'm looking for people who are familiar w/ hardware enablement _specifically_, or people who have this sort of baytrail- and the like hardware |
| 15:00.15 | LCRERGO | \quit |
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| 15:02.54 | lowin | Hello. I followd the direction in https://wiki.debian.org/SecureBoot to sign kernel modules but I still get the error "insmod: ERROR: could not insert module vboxdrv.ko: Operation not permitted" |
| 15:03.01 | lowin | Nothing shows up in dmesg either |
| 15:03.16 | lowin | I can see my certificate is loaded by the kernel |
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| 15:25.39 | debuser_ | "Note that if the pwm driver is a module and the i915 driver is loaded by the initrd; then the pwm-driver and all of its dependencies must also be in the initrd. I've patches dracut to get this right a long time ago, I do not know about other initrd generating tools." from https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96571 - does Debian get this right? |
| 15:25.40 | lowin | Anyone? I guess nobody bothers with secureboot |
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| 15:29.05 | fling | What would be the command to check if the network is up? |
| 15:29.30 | integfred1 | Hi, I'm trying to dd a bootloader at the start of a .img file with a rootfs. When I dd the bootloader the .img file changes size. How do I dd to the start of the .img file whilst preserving the existing rootfs in the file? |
| 15:29.53 | blas-fange | ping google.com |
| 15:30.07 | _DeLa_ | On an old TravelMate 6292 with Intel T7100 CPU and X3100 graphics, I have installed Debian 10 which seems to have worked until after logging in with my normal user account through lightdm there are no windows or bars â just the background image and mouse cursor. When logging in as a root though, everything seems to be where it should be....whats wrong? |
| 15:30.29 | fling | integfred1: conv=notrunc ? |
| 15:30.39 | fling | integfred1: test it, I don't remember for sure |
| 15:31.11 | integfred1 | thanks fling, will test now |
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| 15:31.27 | fling | blas-fange: I want to check via init probably |
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| 15:31.54 | fling | blas-fange: as init somehow starts servers relying on networking after the network is up |
| 15:32.00 | fling | services |
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| 15:33.52 | blas-fange | its possible to write a script using ping to check if its online too, but im not sure thats what you want |
| 15:34.36 | fling | maybe something like |
| 15:34.58 | fling | wait-for-network-is-up-and-exit-0 && another-command |
| 15:35.07 | integfred1 | fling: thanks again, looks to have done the job, cheers |
| 15:35.21 | fling | integfred1: use ddrescue next time |
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| 15:38.14 | fling | blas-fange: for example with openrc I could do |
| 15:38.17 | fling | rc-service net.wlan0 status | grep started && echo started |
| 15:38.29 | Habbie | fling, 'systemctl status X' where X might be 'networking' or something similar |
| 15:38.30 | fling | it will only echo if the network is up |
| 15:38.41 | fling | Habbie: something what? I'm a debian noob :D |
| 15:39.09 | jhutchins | Somehow chrome has lost it's widgets in xfce. Other apps have them, but chrome only has the close X. I can right-click on the title bar and Maximize/Minimize/Restore, but no widgets. |
| 15:40.27 | fling | jhutchins: maybe you should try switching to the system/gtk theme? |
| 15:40.43 | blas-fange | sorry sir, I have no knowledge about init scripts |
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| 15:41.27 | fling | so I want a command that will wait for network and exit 0 when the network is up ;> |
| 15:41.30 | fling | or something similar |
| 15:42.00 | fling | or maybe something I could run in a loop and check for the network status |
| 15:42.08 | jhutchins | fling: If I switch on "Use system title bar and borders", the X goes away. That's all. |
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| 15:42.25 | jhutchins | fling: What's wrong with ping? That's what most people use. |
| 15:42.34 | blas-fange | first you do a ping like ping -c1 google.com |
| 15:42.40 | blas-fange | i am not sure about the syntax |
| 15:42.46 | fling | jhutchins: then what would be the exact command? |
| 15:42.46 | blas-fange | then you evaluate |
| 15:42.50 | blas-fange | with an if statement |
| 15:42.51 | fling | oh |
| 15:43.20 | fling | iputils-ping? or another one? |
| 15:43.36 | blas-fange | if $? = 0 it means ping was successful. again , not sure the exact syntax |
| 15:44.01 | blas-fange | I think mine is busybox ping |
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| 15:45.12 | fling | manpage says it is unwise to use ping during normal operation or in automated scripts |
| 15:45.20 | fling | on gentoo I would just script around rc-service |
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| 15:45.43 | blas-fange | ok, I was unwise then |
| 15:45.52 | blas-fange | but, it works for me |
| 15:45.53 | diogenes_ | isn't there a systemd service for that? onlinewaiting.service or something like that. |
| 15:46.26 | fling | diogenes_: yes, I probably want some kind of service |
| 15:47.02 | jhutchins | fling: You asked for a command that showed if the network is up, ping <host> will do that. You did not ask for something to run in a script. What does the script do? |
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| 15:47.41 | fling | jhutchins: script waits for network and runs another command when network is up |
| 15:47.45 | blas-fange | he wants to do it on boot |
| 15:48.02 | fling | blas-fange: not necessarily but yes could do on boot too |
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| 15:49.42 | jhutchins | fling: You can write a systemd file that's conditional on the network being up. It's not terribly reliable yet, but there is a provision for it. |
| 15:50.07 | fling | Is not there one? |
| 15:50.27 | fling | I thought systemd is checking for network somehow before running network relying services. |
| 15:50.37 | jhutchins | fling: Yes. |
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| 15:51.16 | jhutchins | fling: Arch has some good systemd documentation. |
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| 15:57.22 | annadane | (and freedesktop.org) |
| 15:57.25 | fling | this works for openrc, can do in a loop: |
| 15:57.28 | fling | rc-service net.wlan0 status | grep -L started && echo network is up || echo network is down |
| 15:57.38 | fling | can't figure out for systemd |
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| 15:58.23 | jhutchins | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/126009/cause-a-script-to-execute-after-networking-has-started |
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| 15:58.37 | jhutchins | fling: You really should, this is it's job. |
| 16:01.00 | lowin | I don't understand. I can see in dmesg that my certificate is loaded. modinfo shows the module is signed with the same CN as the one loaded by kernel. but insmod still fails |
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| 16:03.10 | hugo_ | hi all, i dont understant why ":" appear when i run : sudo fdisk -l |grep ^Disque |grep -v loop |sort |awk "{print $2}" |
| 16:03.32 | hugo_ | the output is --> |
| 16:03.33 | hugo_ | /dev/md0Â : |
| 16:03.33 | hugo_ | /dev/sda : |
| 16:03.33 | hugo_ | /dev/sdb : |
| 16:03.33 | hugo_ | /dev/sdc : |
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| 16:03.43 | wasamasa | good job |
| 16:03.46 | Habbie | hugo_, please use a pastebin |
| 16:04.04 | Habbie | hugo_, and, try starting with fdisk | grep, then fdisk | grep | sort, etc. so you see what happens |
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| 16:05.08 | fling | jhutchins: this works: |
| 16:05.09 | fling | systemctl status systemd-networkd.service | grep -q running && echo network is up || echo network is down |
| 16:05.17 | hugo_ | https://pastebin.com/raw/ERKHkZgA |
| 16:05.23 | fling | for some reason -L works on gentoo but on debian I need to replace it with -q |
| 16:05.23 | hugo_ | could you help me please |
| 16:05.27 | fling | thansk for help! |
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| 16:07.00 | wasamasa | hugo_: the fdisk output has a colon and awk splits on spaces by default |
| 16:07.01 | annadane | http://www.bash.org/?7936 |
| 16:07.02 | jhutchins | fling: That page I linked you to shows exactly how to do it. |
| 16:07.49 | hugo_ | wasamasa, great thanks ! So, according to you, what would i run with awk ? |
| 16:08.00 | wasamasa | I'd not use fdisk in the first place |
| 16:08.47 | wasamasa | lsblk is better for that purpose |
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| 16:09.10 | wasamasa | lsblk -l -n -o path |
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| 16:09.39 | wasamasa | perhaps add -S to ignore partitions |
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| 16:10.23 | fling | jhutchins: but the page you linked is about creating a service |
| 16:10.31 | fling | jhutchins: and I already have systemd-networkd.service |
| 16:11.50 | hugo_ | wasamasa, thank you so much |
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| 16:13.25 | jhutchins | Strange, for me the device is the first column. |
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| 16:14.10 | jhutchins | fling: Put whatever thing you want to run when the network is up in a service file. That's what they're for. |
| 16:14.52 | jhutchins | fling: Refer to the systemd documentation for where to put the file. |
| 16:15.10 | fling | sorry, not going to put each command into a file or service |
| 16:15.46 | jhutchins | fling: So call a script then, or you can put multiple commands in a single service file. |
| 16:16.11 | fling | even if I script the on-the-fly adding to a service file |
| 16:16.29 | fling | I will need to remove them too afterwards |
| 16:16.43 | fling | but I don't want them to stay there in even of a crash or something |
| 16:16.57 | jhutchins | fling: This is true no matter which way you do it. |
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| 16:19.05 | fling | nah, the script creating service files to check for network status sounds silly :P |
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| 16:20.56 | jhutchins | fling: Let systemd check for network status, then execute your command(s). |
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| 16:22.34 | fling | also systemctl status systemd-networkd.service returns running even when it is not really running yet |
| 16:22.41 | fling | also returns running for inactive networking |
| 16:22.46 | fling | while it is waiting for a lease |
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| 16:35.27 | wxb | Hello (again). So I've continued looking into the 'Why is my Thinkpad not booting from a bootable flash drive that I made with dd?' question and I found a solution, but not an explanation. That flash drive (Kingston Datatraveler 100 G3 32 GB) successful booted on An Asus eeepc and an HP laptop, but won't on my Thinkpad X61. But a differnt Kingston flash drive does work on the Thinkpad. Also, the boot menu detected my Huawei G4 wifi stick |
| 16:35.27 | wxb | (even though there is no iso on it). Why would this be the case? If this is a more of a #hardware question, send me away, but I'm curious what you people think. Thanks! |
| 16:36.33 | wxb | Also interesting is that the write speeds onto the Kingston that works are much higher! So much faster. But the stick is like 10 years old! What is going on? |
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| 17:12.59 | lowin | I've traced the root of my problem to https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1701096 |
| 17:13.33 | lowin | The problem was cause because I'm using backport kernels and looks like the issue isn't solved in debian testing |
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| 17:16.11 | blas-fange | hi |
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| 17:18.00 | lowin | I'm not very good at finding bugs in debian bugzilla, but looks like it's not reported? |
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| 17:20.50 | jhutchins | wxb: There may be minor flaws in that kingston drive that affect performance and detection. |
| 17:21.04 | jhutchins | wxb: The thinkpad may be more sensitive. |
| 17:21.45 | wxb | jhutchins, Hmmmm. Interesting. I'm happy that it can still boot from flash, but I don't get why it's the case! Some interesting ideas on this in #linux |
| 17:21.49 | jhutchins | You could check the specs for both drives if you can find them. I think dmesg logs what speed it thinks the drive is if you plug it in whle running. |
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| 17:22.29 | jhutchins | wxb: There's a lot of variation in USB implementation, both on the PC and the Device sides. |
| 17:22.29 | wxb | jhutchins, While running dd? |
| 17:23.10 | jhutchins | wxb: I was thinking of looking up specs on the web and seeing what dmesg says when you connect. |
| 17:23.19 | whislock | fling: systemd-networkd-wait-online.service is exactly what that's there for. |
| 17:27.41 | jhutchins | whislock: I don't think he wants to learn how things actually work. He's got this gentoo kludge in his mind and he's going to find a way to do it no matter what. |
| 17:28.04 | whislock | I know, but at least I can say I gave him the right way to do it. |
| 17:28.16 | wxb | jhutchins, flash drives seem more and more spotty to me... I wish there was a better alternative! |
| 17:28.40 | jhutchins | wxb: That's good, it reminds you not to rely on them for long-term storage. |
| 17:28.57 | wxb | jhutchins, External HDD is better? |
| 17:29.30 | wxb | Isn't SSD just as bad as a flash drive though?? |
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| 17:30.28 | fling | whislock: it says online before getting an ip address |
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| 17:32.46 | whislock | How are you managing your network configuration? |
| 17:33.18 | lowin | So I want to submit my first bug to debian |
| 17:33.52 | lowin | What do I fill in as the package version? the version I'm currently running? |
| 17:34.40 | lowin | Like "5.2+107~bpo10+1"? |
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| 17:35.06 | whislock | lowin: It's easiest to use 'reportbug'. |
| 17:35.24 | lowin | but I typed my email and everything |
| 17:35.56 | lowin | OK i'll use reportbug |
| 17:36.14 | whislock | fling: How are you managing your network configuration? |
| 17:37.23 | debuser_ | "Note that if the pwm driver is a module and the i915 driver is loaded by the initrd; then the pwm-driver and all of its dependencies must also be in the initrd. I've patches dracut to get this right a long time ago, I do not know about other initrd generating tools." from https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96571 - does Debian get this right? |
| 17:38.08 | debuser_ | anyone still willing to look into this issue? I'm looking for people who are familiar w/ hardware enablement _specifically_, or people who have this sort of baytrail- and the like hardware |
| 17:38.21 | fling | whislock: /etc/network/interfaces iface eth0 inet dhcp |
| 17:38.51 | whislock | fling: That isn't systemd-networkd, so of course you're not going to get the right responses. |
| 17:39.20 | fling | is a noob |
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| 17:40.08 | whislock | fling: If you want it to work correctly, enable systemd-networkd/systemd-resolved, disable ifupdown.service, configure networkd, and set your systemd service to rely on systemd-networkd-wait-online.service. |
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| 17:41.47 | fling | is not there a way to use /etc/network/interfaces ? |
| 17:42.14 | whislock | I'm not sure if this will work, but it might be worth a try. |
| 17:42.35 | ratrace | whislock: what about network-online.target? |
| 17:42.43 | whislock | There's a config item for /e/n/i called post-up. In that interface stanza, enter 'post-up /path/to/script' |
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| 17:43.34 | whislock | fling: Actually, do what ratrace said. |
| 17:43.49 | whislock | ratrace: I forget that exists. |
| 17:44.21 | ratrace | whislock: no I was asking, which one is preferred :) I was using that one to solve a similar problem and it didn't help me, I had to whip up a custom script that pinged the gateway and waited until pings passed |
| 17:44.23 | OS-59206 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:44.34 | ratrace | OS-59206: fail |
| 17:44.34 | whislock | OS-59206: Welcome to IRC. |
| 17:44.59 | ratrace | OS-59206: first lesson in offensive security: do NOT copypaste irc commands (with leading spaces) |
| 17:45.00 | whislock | ratrace: Honestly, your solution would probably be the best option in this case. |
| 17:45.19 | whislock | fling: Definitely do what ratrace suggested. |
| 17:45.30 | whislock | fling: Let me know if you need help writing a systemd.service unit appropriately. |
| 17:45.30 | ratrace | whislock: right, so make services run After=network-online.target ? |
| 17:45.37 | whislock | After= and Wants=. |
| 17:45.40 | fling | ping manpage says it is bad |
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| 17:45.49 | ratrace | whislock: ah yes, Wants too |
| 17:45.56 | fling | I'm not going to write services from my script :D |
| 17:46.10 | whislock | fling: If you don't want to do things the right way, then don't. That's on you. |
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| 17:46.46 | fling | on gentoo I can check if network is up with rc-service command |
| 17:46.47 | whislock | fling: When your half-baked kludge doesn't work properly, feel free to come back for a well-earned "we told you so." |
| 17:46.56 | whislock | Welcome to #debian, where Debian != Gentoo. |
| 17:47.03 | fling | yeah |
| 17:47.06 | fling | This is why I asked ;D |
| 17:47.15 | whislock | fling: And the answer you're getting is the right way to do things. |
| 17:47.18 | whislock | fling: Take it or leave it. |
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| 17:48.29 | horribleprogram | NOOO |
| 17:48.38 | whislock | OH YEAAAH |
| 17:48.38 | fling | very horrible |
| 17:48.48 | fling | with systemd smell |
| 17:49.11 | whislock | Yes, proper service dependency handling is so horrible. |
| 17:49.17 | horribleprogram | ^ |
| 17:49.40 | horribleprogram | whislock: I don't get how systemd does that tho |
| 17:49.48 | horribleprogram | whislock: like I understand how Gradle handles dependencies |
| 17:49.56 | ratrace | fling: no, on gentoo with openrc there's no facility that says the network is online :) rc-service does only check if the service is up, not the actual network |
| 17:50.03 | jhutchins | network-online service doesn't wait for dhcp to establish communications, it just says "iface is up". |
| 17:50.03 | whislock | horribleprogram: That was one of its fundamental design criteria. |
| 17:50.27 | horribleprogram | whislock: so like when booting up, the ssh.service might have dependencies that need to be booted up first? |
| 17:50.30 | fling | ratrace: when it is not up, rc-service returns inactive for it |
| 17:50.31 | whislock | horribleprogram: Yes. |
| 17:50.34 | horribleprogram | ahhhh |
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| 17:50.56 | debuser_ | any kernel/initrd experts here? |
| 17:50.59 | blas-fange | guys, you are truly advanced. And i cant believe its on the same subject since I left, had lunch and returned |
| 17:51.00 | horribleprogram | yes |
| 17:51.01 | horribleprogram | I amn |
| 17:51.12 | ratrace | fling: it also says that when the service is up but the network is in half-baked or not online at all, state |
| 17:51.12 | whislock | After=network.target sshd-keygen.target |
| 17:51.14 | whislock | Wants=sshd-keygen.target |
| 17:51.16 | whislock | horribleprogram: ^ Example. |
| 17:51.31 | horribleprogram | whislock: yeah, that's beautiful if you ask me |
| 17:52.05 | horribleprogram | the abstraction of things into .service, .mount, .device, etc |
| 17:52.09 | fling | ratrace: omg, I should recheck this, thanks. |
| 17:52.16 | ratrace | fling: burned me a few times, that's how I know ;) |
| 17:52.20 | fling | openrc might be a horribleprogram too. |
| 17:52.42 | horribleprogram | debuser_: I git cloned the entire linux kernel and looking at it, what is it you need? |
| 17:52.56 | fling | ok, I will just grep ip address from lxd and sleep for few seconds after it assuming it will be enough to add routes. |
| 17:53.00 | debuser_ | "Note that if the pwm driver is a module and the i915 driver is loaded by the initrd; then the pwm-driver and all of its dependencies must also be in the initrd. I've patches dracut to get this right a long time ago, I do not know about other initrd generating tools." from https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96571 - does Debian get this right? |
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| 17:53.50 | debuser_ | i.e. does it include pwm modules in the initrd |
| 17:55.20 | jhutchins | The nice thing about doing fling's thing right in systemd is that systemd won't just test once, it will wait for the connection to come up. |
| 17:55.41 | horribleprogram | debuser_: what kernel do you have |
| 17:55.51 | fling | or I can replace proper-working-complex-ifup.sh with sleep 60 |
| 17:56.19 | debuser_ | horribleprogram, I'm looking at an issue that hits both the 4.19 kernel in Buster and the latest testing |
| 17:57.21 | jhutchins | debuser_: Best way to find out is to install the packages and see. |
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| 17:58.24 | debuser_ | jhutchins, how do I see what gets included in the initrd? afaict it's some weird image that gets rebuilt w/ every kernel update |
| 18:00.52 | jhutchins | debuser_: lsinitrd |
| 18:01.24 | horribleprogram | nah |
| 18:01.31 | ratrace | lsinitramfs ? |
| 18:01.49 | horribleprogram | cat /boot/config-x.y.z-a-<arch> |
| 18:01.57 | ratrace | that's for kernel config |
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| 18:03.06 | jhutchins | debuser_: IIRC the process is to load the modules then run dracut/mkinitrd. |
| 18:03.11 | horribleprogram | cat /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf |
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| 18:03.50 | ratrace | wait are we talking about debian here? |
| 18:04.04 | no_gravity | I wonder if there is a way to test how long a browser needs to start and access a url. I am thinking about a clever way combining "nc -l80" and "firefox 127.0.0.1". Any ideas? |
| 18:05.01 | ratrace | no_gravity: for starters, use a port > 1000 or else you'll need sudo for that nc |
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| 18:05.44 | no_gravity | ratrace: True |
| 18:06.00 | no_gravity | So "nc -lp8080" and "firefox 127.0.0.1:8080" |
| 18:06.04 | ratrace | anyway, something like that is what I'd do too, to test that. not sure what other feasible method is there |
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| 18:06.34 | no_gravity | Is there a way to make "nc -lp8080" exit as soon as the request comes in? |
| 18:06.51 | debuser_ | horribleprogram, the Debian box I'm on at this moment seems to be configured to "Try and guess which modules to load", as set @ install. (I'm not on the Asus T100TAS that has this issue, though.) Not sure how helpful that is without knowing how that dependency resolution works, e.g. if i915 is set to depend on the pwm stuff. |
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| 18:07.17 | jhutchins | no_gravity: I gather you're wanting to include the time it takes to load the browser? |
| 18:07.32 | jhutchins | no_gravity: You could time them separately. |
| 18:07.33 | no_gravity | jhutchins: Yes |
| 18:07.52 | no_gravity | jhutchins: How do you mean? |
| 18:08.18 | jhutchins | no_gravity: time the load time of the browser, use something like chrome developer tools to time the page load. |
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| 18:08.44 | ratrace | no_gravity: I think it does that already, exits after initial recv batch |
| 18:08.47 | no_gravity | jhutchins: How would you time the load time of the browser? |
| 18:09.02 | jhutchins | no_gravity: Stopwatch? |
| 18:09.17 | no_gravity | jhutchins: How do you know when it is loaded and ready to send a request? |
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| 18:09.26 | jhutchins | It accepts input |
| 18:09.38 | no_gravity | jhutchins: Then maybe only the UI is loaded. |
| 18:10.08 | shibboleth | my debian testing is kinda broken. nautilus, evince, etc seem to be in a kind of limbo between 3.32, 3.34-0 and 3.34-1 |
| 18:10.28 | no_gravity | Something along the lines of this should work: time nc -lp8080; firefox 127.0.0.1:8080 |
| 18:10.33 | shibboleth | nautilus and evince are both listed as rc under dpkg -l |
| 18:10.34 | jhutchins | shibboleth: That's probably an issue for #debian-next on oftc.net |
| 18:10.41 | shibboleth | k |
| 18:10.45 | no_gravity | We need some linux pro to come up with the exact syntax! |
| 18:11.17 | ratrace | no_gravity: you can't do ; as nc will wait in the foreground |
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| 18:13.06 | debuser_ | though I'm looking @ the initrd that's in the latest Debian testing live image, and the pwm modules seem NOT to be included, even though e.g. i915 definitely is. This seems like it's enough to file a bug over the issue, right? |
| 18:13.15 | no_gravity | ratrace: This almost works: (firefox 127.0.0.1:8080 &) ; time nc -lp8080; |
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| 18:13.30 | ratrace | no_gravity: almost? |
| 18:13.32 | no_gravity | ratrace: If we get nc to exit on receiving the request, we have it! |
| 18:13.42 | debuser_ | if so, could someone tske care of this, please? I'm not _that_ familiar w/ the BTS |
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| 18:13.55 | ratrace | no_gravity: there are three netcats in the repo; install the one with -k I think that's the openbsd or the -traditional |
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| 18:14.26 | ratrace | no_gravity: however I'm not sure that'll work as firefox will wait with the open connection until a response is received |
| 18:14.56 | jhutchins | debuser_: Check the manpage for that initramfs.conf, it looks like there's an option to specify modules. |
| 18:14.57 | no_gravity | ratrace: Yes, FF will wait. nc would need to exit as soon as it gets the request. |
| 18:15.02 | ratrace | no_gravity: what I'd do alternatively, is nc --options > somefile.txt & and then start FF. the modification timestamp of that file is when it was written ot |
| 18:15.05 | ratrace | no_gravity: *to |
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| 18:15.32 | ratrace | ie. the mod timestamp will tell you when FF sent the request headers |
| 18:15.32 | no_gravity | ratrace: Hmm... outputting the time on the console without writing stuff to disk would be more elegant. |
| 18:16.04 | ratrace | no_gravity: you can try with -k for netcat (either -traditional or -openbsd), but I don't think that'll work as FF won't close connection, waiting for response |
| 18:16.06 | debuser_ | jhutchins, I know, but it's not easy to test this on the hardware I have right now. |
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| 18:16.39 | ratrace | no_gravity: maybe something based on xinet? a script that outputs $(date) when it's being run, though there's the xinetd latency to consider |
| 18:18.19 | no_gravity | ratrace: Not sure what you mean. |
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| 18:19.22 | ratrace | no_gravity: you know what xinetd is? it's a daemon that can listen on port 8080 and then launch a program (a shell script even) when a connectoin comes in |
| 18:19.36 | ratrace | no_gravity: so that script can elegantly echo $(date) |
| 18:19.58 | no_gravity | ratrace: Can you try it? |
| 18:20.15 | ratrace | no sorry, I've got stuff to do |
| 18:21.06 | debuser_ | so, anyone still looking into this? |
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| 18:21.27 | no_gravity | debuser_: We are trying to make nc exit as soon as a request comes in. |
| 18:21.34 | ratrace | no_gravity: I'd just use a file and look at the mod timestamp, that's the simplest way |
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| 18:22.04 | ratrace | no_gravity: nc can't do that, but it CAN exit as soon as the connection ends, which FF won't do as it waits for your nc to reply to the request |
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| 18:22.27 | debuser_ | haha no, I meant my kernel-related issue |
| 18:22.42 | no_gravity | debuser_: We need to figure out the nc thing first. |
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| 18:24.40 | debuser_ | no_gravity, use something to parse the request and exit as soon as it has parsed successfully? that would be enough to end the connection |
| 18:25.28 | no_gravity | debuser_: No parsing needed. All the "something" has to do is to exit as soon as the request comes in. |
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| 18:26.13 | no_gravity | debuser_: Unfortunately nc waits for receiving some "End of request" signal before it exits. |
| 18:26.28 | no_gravity | debuser_: We need something that exites as soon as the request comes in. |
| 18:26.36 | jhutchins | debuser_: What was the hardware you were trying to get working? |
| 18:26.42 | ratrace | no_gravity: `python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080` |
| 18:26.53 | jhutchins | debuser_: Was it npm you were trying to get into initrd? |
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| 18:27.15 | ratrace | no_gravity: just a word of warning, it'll by default send back to FF the dir listing of your current directory |
| 18:27.24 | jhutchins | pwm. |
| 18:27.28 | ratrace | but you'll get the access log output, with timestamp |
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| 18:27.45 | ratrace | no_gravity: so.... python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080 & ; firefox 127.0.0.1:8080 |
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| 18:28.06 | debuser_ | jhutchins, Asus T100TAS, a baytrail device. it seems to need PWM modules in initrd, or backlight adjustment won't work properly |
| 18:28.08 | no_gravity | ratrace: That does not measure the time and outputs it on the screen. |
| 18:28.22 | debuser_ | "Note that if the pwm driver is a module and the i915 driver is loaded by the initrd; then the pwm-driver and all of its dependencies must also be in the initrd. I've patches dracut to get this right a long time ago, I do not know about other initrd generating tools." from https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96571 - reminder |
| 18:28.29 | ratrace | no_gravity: no it outputs the timestamp (at 1 second resolution) of the first request |
| 18:28.34 | ratrace | isn't that what you wanted? |
| 18:28.57 | no_gravity | ratrace: No, I want a command that outputs the time in seconds the browser took to start and send the request. |
| 18:29.21 | ratrace | no_gravity: there's no such thing as you have two asynchrous processes |
| 18:29.29 | debuser_ | and it seems that Debian gets this quite wrong, at least per the latest Debian-Live testing weekly image |
| 18:29.32 | jhutchins | debuser_: What are you tring to get working? |
| 18:29.39 | ratrace | you'll have to do some serious scripting and a custom HTTP server that quits after first request is made |
| 18:30.03 | jhutchins | !pi |
| 18:30.03 | dpkg | The Raspberry Pi is an open hardware design based on a Broadcom system-on-a-chip, requiring <non-free> <firmware>. Debian's <armel> port works fine, but does not use the Pi's hardware floating point unit. Debian's <armhf> port targets a newer revision of the ARM chip than is in the Pi, so armhf will not work on it. http://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ #raspberrypi on irc.freenode.net. |
| 18:30.11 | debuser_ | jhutchins, see above? backlight adjustment on Asus Transformer Book T100TAS, a baytrail device |
| 18:30.14 | no_gravity | ratrace: No, I only need a "thing" that listens on a port and exits as soon as something comes in. |
| 18:31.13 | karlpinc | no_gravity: Use nc or socat. |
| 18:31.32 | ratrace | those won't quit on first byte from FF |
| 18:31.36 | no_gravity | karlpinc: nc waits for the request to finish. Thats the whole problem. |
| 18:31.47 | ratrace | "somethign comes in" I'm assuming first byte comes in -- or are we talking about parsing the request? |
| 18:31.58 | ratrace | not request, but connection, huge distinction |
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| 18:32.20 | no_gravity | So I am trying to write a command on the command line that listens on a port and exits as soon as a packet comes in. Any ideas how to go about that? |
| 18:32.21 | debuser_ | no_gravity, why not just use tshark/wireshark to tap the requests directly? as they arrive? that ought to work, right? |
| 18:32.44 | no_gravity | debuser_: I want to write a simple command that everyone can type on their terminal. Without dependencies. |
| 18:32.45 | jhutchins | debuser_: I'd try to track down the upstream source for the pwm module. |
| 18:32.49 | ratrace | no_gravity: could whip up something socket based in python |
| 18:33.09 | no_gravity | ratrace: Bash would be even better. |
| 18:33.14 | jhutchins | debuser_: Also search for another source that doesn't say "I forget how". |
| 18:33.20 | ratrace | no_gravity: lemme see if I can whip up an oneliner that quits after accept() returns |
| 18:33.28 | no_gravity | ratrace: ok |
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| 18:33.51 | debuser_ | jhutchins, it's in kernel. the whole issue is that it goesn't get placed in the initrd apparently. this is stuff that works out of the box in Fedora, no weird out-of-tree stuff |
| 18:34.32 | jhutchins | debuser_: Have you rebuilt the initramfs with the pwm module loaded? |
| 18:34.44 | seibaby | hi |
| 18:35.02 | Guest42011 | Hello |
| 18:35.27 | ratrace | no_gravity: python3 -c "import socket ; s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM) ; s.bind(('127.0.0.1', 8080)) ; s.listen() ; c,a = s.accept()" |
| 18:35.45 | ratrace | no_gravity: that'll exit as soon as firefox opens a tcp connection (ie. accept() returns) |
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| 18:36.57 | debuser_ | jhutchins, I'm actually just looking at Debian-built images right now. it's _not_ easy for me to test this atm on the actual hardware, although I might try later. |
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| 18:37.18 | no_gravity | ratrace: Hangs for me |
| 18:37.35 | ratrace | no_gravity: yes that hangs until you open the connection to it, then exits |
| 18:37.38 | jhutchins | debuser_: I think you're going to have to test it on the actual hardware. |
| 18:38.14 | no_gravity | ratrace: Not for me. It hangs forever. |
| 18:38.32 | no_gravity | ratrace: Ah, one moment! |
| 18:38.34 | ratrace | no_gravity: even if you instruct firefox to http://127.0.0.1:8080 ? |
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| 18:38.59 | no_gravity | ratrace: Ok, seems to work! |
| 18:39.03 | ratrace | yah. |
| 18:39.06 | no_gravity | ratrace: ( firefox 127.0.0.1:8080 & ); time python3 -c "import socket ; s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM) ; s.bind(('127.0.0.1', 8080)) ; s.listen() ; c,a = s.accept()" |
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| 18:39.27 | no_gravity | ratrace: How long does it take for you? |
| 18:39.43 | ratrace | no_gravity: now, depending on how fast FF is, note there's latency of shell scripting and starting python with a socket listener |
| 18:40.26 | debuser_ | is BayTrail/CherryTrail etc. hardware _that_ uncommon? surely some people must have tried running Debian on these devices |
| 18:40.54 | ratrace | no_gravity: 0.029s |
| 18:41.22 | no_gravity | ratrace: Firefox was not running when you executed the line? |
| 18:41.32 | ratrace | no_gravity: nope |
| 18:41.51 | ratrace | but I just closed it so stuff was in pagecache I guess.... |
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| 18:42.02 | no_gravity | ratrace: Yeah |
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| 18:42.24 | no_gravity | ratrace: For me it's 1.7s |
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| 18:44.32 | ratrace | no_gravity: I'd reverse the order of FF and that python listener to have more correct numbers. you want to start the listener with `&& date` in a subshell and you & the entire subshell, then output date, then start FF. then work the difference between two dates |
| 18:45.29 | ratrace | no_gravity: date +%s.%N will give you unix timestamps decimal with nanoseconds, so you can simply substract one from the other |
| 18:45.39 | jhutchins | debuser_: Got it: "add the name of the module to /etc/initramfs-tools/modules |
| 18:45.51 | jhutchins | debuser_: https://askubuntu.com/questions/676707/how-to-load-a-module-in-initrd |
| 18:46.06 | no_gravity | ratrace: I don't want to do calculations myself. I want the result on screen :) |
| 18:46.26 | ratrace | no_gravity: and I want to go to Mars :) |
| 18:47.07 | ro9u3or1 | im running raspian on an old pi that does not have an ethernet adapter. My question is can the cat5 connector pins still be utilized in a serial to usb setup? |
| 18:47.18 | ratrace | unless someone wrote the whole "Benchmark FF startup time with a local listener" program and you can install it an run it, you'll have to do it yourself |
| 18:48.19 | no_gravity | ratrace: Thats what I'm doing |
| 18:48.35 | ratrace | no_gravity: yes but your program is flawed due to the order of commands |
| 18:49.02 | no_gravity | ratrace: I welcome you to write a better one |
| 18:49.21 | ratrace | no_gravity: sure, 200â¬, lemme know where I can send the paypal request |
| 18:50.24 | no_gravity | Right now I have the feeling /dev/tcp/ could be useful. |
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| 18:50.50 | ratrace | and if you want to do it yourself correctly, start the python listener first and mark the time as it exits, in one subshell, mark the time, start FF in the other |
| 18:52.25 | debuser_ | jhutchins, that's not my issue, I know how to do that. It's just the hassle of either installing Debian again on the device, which now has a working fedora on it...or somehow building a bootable image with that customized initrd |
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| 18:53.15 | no_gravity | ratrace: The python listener is too long for my linking. |
| 18:53.45 | debuser_ | i'm still surprised that people here _don't_ seem to have comparable hardware that they could test themselves, and perhaps get this fixed altogether |
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| 18:56.19 | ratrace | no_gravity: if I were doing it for myself, I'd just write the complete thing in python. start the listnere, then spawn-off FF with the multiprocess module, and that way I'd cut out all of the overhead of shell scripting, `time` and python loading up |
| 18:56.53 | ratrace | no_gravity: you'd have best precision with time.time() command as you spawn off the FF process and measure time when that accept() returns |
| 18:57.12 | no_gravity | ratrace: The idea is to write a short oneliner without dependencies. So everybody can easily test it on their machine. |
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| 18:57.37 | ratrace | no_gravity: I'm pretty sure python is present everywhere these days, especially if FF is installed |
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| 18:58.16 | ratrace | in fact, it'd even work on windows with tha tprogram that you can wrap up a python script and the interpreter into a self-unpacking .exe :) |
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| 19:00.02 | kadiro | hmm |
| 19:01.10 | ratrace | no_gravity: then again there's also strace, it's -t option, and a | grep "http://127.0.0.1" something something |
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| 19:01.57 | no_gravity | ratrace: Not sure what you mean. |
| 19:03.42 | ratrace | no_gravity: nvm, it'd probably not work as I imagined at first |
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| 19:10.21 | no_gravity | ratrace: THERE IS A SOLUTION!! |
| 19:10.31 | no_gravity | firefox http:/localhost:8000 2>/dev/null & time echo x | nc -N -l 8000 |
| 19:10.33 | no_gravity | Yay! |
| 19:11.27 | ratrace | well, sonofagun |
| 19:12.02 | ratrace | you still have the same problem of precision and command order. at time scale like mine (29msec) the error is huge |
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| 19:13.00 | ratrace | and that relies on FF closing connection when it receives "x" instead of proper HTTP response |
| 19:13.13 | no_gravity | ratrace: It works |
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| 19:14.33 | ratrace | no_gravity: yes but it doesn't measure what you think it measures, depending on the scale :) |
| 19:14.49 | no_gravity | ratrace: It does. |
| 19:15.38 | ratrace | no it doesn't. let's say FF takes 500 msec to do what you want. let's say that `time` + echo + opening a pipe + launching nc takes 400 msec. you'll get the output of 100msec which is NOT how much it took FF to start. |
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| 19:16.01 | no_gravity | I doubt time+echo+nc take 400ms. |
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| 19:16.22 | ratrace | I just gave arbitrary numbers out |
| 19:16.42 | ratrace | as an example of why the measure is not what you think it is, depending on the scale. |
| 19:17.01 | jpw | what's the question? it sounds interesing and i just joined. |
| 19:17.13 | no_gravity | jpw: Measuring how fast a browser starts up. |
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| 19:17.25 | no_gravity | jpw: firefox localhost:8000 2>/dev/null & time echo x | nc -N -l 8000 |
| 19:17.32 | kadiro | that depend on the machine i would say |
| 19:17.37 | no_gravity | jpw: 1.7s for me. |
| 19:17.49 | kadiro | wow that's fast |
| 19:17.52 | jpw | i think there's a developer page that shows those stats |
| 19:18.04 | ratrace | no_gravity: invalid option -N for nc |
| 19:18.19 | ratrace | which of the three netcats are you using? |
| 19:18.27 | no_gravity | jpw: Does it work for you? |
| 19:18.49 | jpw | i'm on windows right now so... |
| 19:19.12 | ratrace | heresy.... |
| 19:19.18 | kadiro | lol |
| 19:19.45 | ratrace | no_gravity: what's that -N supposed to do? I have netcat-traditional installed |
| 19:20.13 | no_gravity | ratrace: "shutdown(2) the network socket after EOF on the input." |
| 19:20.52 | ratrace | I don't have that. I can't remember if I installed -traditional deliberately or it came in as default |
| 19:21.26 | kadiro | I believe it is called netcal-openbsd or something similar |
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| 19:21.48 | ratrace | yea that's the other one, installing that one instead |
| 19:22.13 | ratrace | 0.085s |
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| 19:22.23 | ratrace | FF closed, pagecache nuked |
| 19:22.58 | no_gravity | So Firefox vs Chrome: |
| 19:23.00 | no_gravity | firefox 127.0.0.1:8000 2>/dev/null & time echo x | nc -N -l 8000 |
| 19:23.06 | no_gravity | chromium-browser 127.0.0.1:8000 2>/dev/null & time echo x | nc -N -l 8000 |
| 19:23.12 | no_gravity | Chromium is 3x faster for me. |
| 19:23.21 | kadiro | of course |
| 19:23.36 | kadiro | at least for me too i mean |
| 19:24.11 | kadiro | in memory side it could be that chrome/chromium is more hungry |
| 19:24.29 | no_gravity | kadiro: How are the times for you? |
| 19:24.37 | no_gravity | For me it is 1.7s vs 0.5s |
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| 19:24.50 | ratrace | chromium is way bigger than FF so this sounds rather contrary to what I'd expect |
| 19:25.03 | ratrace | no_gravity: killed pagecache between runs? |
| 19:25.07 | no_gravity | ratrace: The whole reason I wrote this is that I am so annoyed FF starts so slow. |
| 19:25.12 | kadiro | i'm currently using firefox, not decided to use chrome or another browser |
| 19:25.21 | no_gravity | ratrace: And I want to document the actual times. |
| 19:25.31 | no_gravity | ratrace: How do I de-pagecache? |
| 19:25.48 | kadiro | 0m2,539s |
| 19:25.58 | kadiro | firefox |
| 19:26.51 | ratrace | chromium took 430msec for me, vs 89msec FF. also, it's just "chromium" and I had to add http:// to that localhost, or else it doesn't do what it should |
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| 19:27.19 | no_gravity | ratrace: 127.0.0.1 works without http:// |
| 19:27.26 | ratrace | no_gravity: echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches |
| 19:28.18 | no_gravity | ratrace: With de-pagecache, it is 1.7s vs 1.3s |
| 19:28.48 | no_gravity | So not a big difference. |
| 19:28.49 | jpw | wouldn't dropping the caches skew the results? you'd be timing your HDD + FF instead of just FF |
| 19:29.07 | no_gravity | jpw: Well, the real time is what matters for the user. |
| 19:29.15 | kadiro | interesting question |
| 19:29.25 | no_gravity | I wonder why Chromium gains more from the pagecache. |
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| 19:30.15 | *** join/#debian live1 (~live@78.134.246.130) |
| 19:30.36 | live1 | Hello! I have a question. |
| 19:30.43 | ratrace | no, dropping the cache is imporant because FF and chromium share some libs |
| 19:31.00 | no_gravity | ratrace: Aha .. interesting! |
| 19:31.18 | ratrace | also it's a systemic skew and irrelevant for comparison as you don't care about absolute numbers, you care about relative numbers |
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| 19:31.32 | no_gravity | ratrace: So none of the browsers should run while the other one is tested. |
| 19:32.02 | no_gravity | 1.6s vs 1.3s for me. |
| 19:32.06 | no_gravity | So almost no difference. |
| 19:32.10 | no_gravity | Interesting. |
| 19:32.15 | kadiro | live1, ok let me read your mind first :) |
| 19:32.15 | no_gravity | So FF is *not* slower. |
| 19:32.33 | live1 | kadiro: Focus...focus... |
| 19:32.41 | kadiro | haha |
| 19:32.51 | ratrace | no_gravity: shouldn't be. chromium is a megabeast in size. I'd say it takes time to load up all that stuff from disk just to get it running |
| 19:33.05 | *** join/#debian estrom (estrom@gateway/vpn/mullvad/estrom) |
| 19:33.27 | ratrace | no_gravity: on gentoo, building firefox bs building chromium is a factor of 10x -ish |
| 19:33.32 | ratrace | *vs |
| 19:33.38 | live1 | I've just read netcat source code. It's full of swear words, full of XXX's and stuff like that. How come that gets added to the software repository? I get scared... |
| 19:33.46 | no_gravity | ratrace: Are there more chaches that can be flushed? I have the feeling that FF sometimes needs way longer then 1.7s. |
| 19:34.11 | ratrace | no_gravity: no, 3 includes all of them, pagecache, inode cache AND slab cache |
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| 19:34.28 | no_gravity | ratrace: So after a reboot it should also be just 1.7s? |
| 19:34.32 | ratrace | yup |
| 19:34.37 | no_gravity | reboots ... |
| 19:34.45 | no_gravity | See you in a minute ... |
| 19:35.35 | ratrace | live1: which netcat there's openbsd and traditional |
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| 19:36.56 | no_gravity | ratrace: After the reboot, FF took 6.5s |
| 19:37.30 | live1 | ratrace: This one is 1.10-41 version |
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| 19:38.38 | ratrace | no_gravity: and again after echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches (as root) ? |
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| 19:39.06 | ratrace | live1: so, netcat-traditional |
| 19:39.14 | no_gravity | ratrace: 1.7s |
| 19:39.21 | ratrace | wth |
| 19:39.28 | ratrace | that's not caches, that's something else in play here |
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| 19:39.37 | no_gravity | I will reboot and try chromium after a reboot ... |
| 19:39.41 | ratrace | no_gravity: which DE or WM? |
| 19:39.43 | no_gravity | See you in a minute ... |
| 19:39.49 | no_gravity | ratrace: Mate |
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| 19:41.29 | live1 | cat netcat.c | grep -c -i "fu**" |
| 19:41.31 | live1 | 5 |
| 19:41.39 | live1 | cat netcat.c | grep -c -i "poop" |
| 19:41.41 | live1 | 66 |
| 19:41.47 | live1 | cat netcat.c | grep -c -i "XXX" |
| 19:41.50 | live1 | 8 |
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| 19:42.12 | no_gravity | ratrace: Chromium took 1.6s after the reboot. |
| 19:42.14 | live1 | cat netcat.c | grep -c -i "pr00gie" |
| 19:42.17 | live1 | 14 |
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| 19:42.47 | live1 | Isn't that what hacker is not? |
| 19:42.49 | no_gravity | ratrace: Firefox (after the chromium test) 6.5s again. |
| 19:43.46 | ratrace | live1: please don't abuse cats. grep -c i "fu**" netcat.c works fine :) |
| 19:43.53 | ratrace | -c -i |
| 19:44.15 | live1 | ratrace: Haha. Ok. Thanks. |
| 19:44.38 | Guest42011 | Compared to Windows some things do load/respond more slowly, but the overall bloat is still far less. OS wide, and even within modules of individual programs. |
| 19:45.06 | sponix | Guest42011: what Desktop Environment are you using ? |
| 19:45.10 | *** join/#debian amphiprions (~amphiprio@82-64-46-151.subs.proxad.net) |
| 19:45.13 | Guest42011 | XFCE |
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| 19:47.02 | live1 | Okay, I have to go now. |
| 19:47.05 | ratrace | no_gravity: I suppose there's some other caching going on here, maybe something ld related that's not kernel |
| 19:47.17 | Guest42011 | I respect all desktop choices, but unless you're going with a tiling window manager, or something exotic, I personally don't see any reason to recommend or install anything other than XFCE |
| 19:47.32 | no_gravity | ratrace: ld? |
| 19:47.40 | Guest42011 | LXDE for computers that are old as s*it |
| 19:47.51 | no_gravity | ratrace: Can you try after a reboot? |
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| 19:48.03 | ratrace | no_gravity: ldconfig, the shared lib thingy... sorry, I can't reboot now |
| 19:50.19 | *** join/#debian crestfallen (~John@157-131-109-217.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 19:50.27 | crestfallen | hi with a fresh buster install, the startup hangs with a flashing cursor at the bottom, with a gnome message being the last entry. I've read that this is a known bug. the machine is not in front of me. I was trying to get into the barebones vi editor to change the sources.list file. how do I get into that file with vi or basic editor. |
| 19:50.51 | crestfallen | ? |
| 19:51.11 | crestfallen | to modify non-Free entries |
| 19:51.32 | Guest42011 | You should boot from a live environment and open a terminal to nano, then chroot in to your install and run package updates |
| 19:52.18 | ratrace | crestfallen: how are you accessing it, if it's not in front of you? ssh? |
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| 19:53.08 | crestfallen | Guest42011, thanks. ratrace I'm not accessing it I'm just hoping to write down the instructions I get here. |
| 19:53.23 | Guest42011 | If he is trying to remotely get in, he may want to boot directly to bash and enable dhcp and ssh and then ssh in to edit the sources.list and update packages, but he would need hands on it to prep the session from the remote end |
| 19:54.05 | crestfallen | so I'm not sure about the above suggestion. no nothing remote, this is a computer someone gave me at work |
| 19:54.14 | ratrace | crestfallen: not sure what you're asking, since you mention vi, i'm guessing you know your way around it and how to open a file for editing? |
| 19:54.26 | crestfallen | barely ratrace ... |
| 19:54.43 | ratrace | then don't use vi :) what do you want, enable the non-free repo? |
| 19:55.06 | Guest42011 | yes then you should boot from a live environment, use nano from the command line, I would not recommend vi unless you really know the vi application. Then, use chroot to update packages on the non-functional install. |
| 19:56.04 | kadiro | may be you can just switch between ttyX and fix the source.list? |
| 19:56.15 | ratrace | good point |
| 19:56.24 | *** join/#debian crestfallen (~John@157-131-109-217.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 19:56.41 | Guest42011 | If he can drop down to TTY and do the edit and update that would save a lot of work |
| 19:56.43 | crestfallen | sorry I have a weak connection on top of my worries here |
| 19:56.47 | ratrace | though what's the end goal here, install nvidia proprietary driver? the bug is with nouveau? |
| 19:57.17 | *** join/#debian wifi (~wifi@89-23-254-218.ip4.fiberby.net) |
| 19:57.42 | crestfallen | so what do you mean a live environment? |
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| 19:58.26 | Guest42011 | A USB or CD loaded with the Debian ISO |
| 19:58.34 | crestfallen | I loaded a new os from a usb drive. it seemed fine. then on startup it hangs. that's really all I know |
| 19:58.41 | Guest42011 | (Bootable) |
| 19:59.09 | ratrace | crestfallen: and what do you want to do? |
| 19:59.10 | Guest42011 | Yes, from the same USB you installed there should be an option to boot to a live desktop instead of the install |
| 19:59.34 | ratrace | not if that's netinst ISO |
| 19:59.53 | crestfallen | it is a netinst.iso |
| 20:00.03 | ratrace | crestfallen: and what do you want to do? |
| 20:00.14 | Guest42011 | Ah, well then. If it's a minimal installer then you would need to modify your boot options to boot directly to bash, or to get a different ISO |
| 20:00.21 | crestfallen | the thing's hanging it wont open the desktop |
| 20:00.42 | *** join/#debian leighton (~leighton@c-73-170-255-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:00.44 | kadiro | try from console |
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| 20:01.02 | crestfallen | boot directly to bash? please explain how to do that |
| 20:01.07 | ratrace | crestfallen: and? what do you want to achieve? you came in with a specific question of how to edit source files.... what are you trying to do? install nvidia proprietary? |
| 20:01.52 | crestfallen | to edit source files was a suggestion in a blog for a general OP question that seemed quite similar to my issue |
| 20:02.14 | ratrace | AND DO WHAT WITH THE SOURCE FILE |
| 20:02.18 | ratrace | ffs how many times do I fucking need to ask |
| 20:02.30 | ratrace | flips table, goes away |
| 20:02.53 | kadiro | crestfallen, when it hang can you use alt+ctrl+Fx ( F1 ..F6 ) |
| 20:04.03 | kadiro | and as ratrace say what is your goal by modifying the source.list |
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| 20:08.14 | crestfallen | the blog suggested to add 'http://deb.debian.org/ buster main contrib non-free deb-src' and same line minus 'deb-src'. this was the suggestion for an issue I read about yesterday that seemed close to mine, as a fix. I thought I explained it sorry ratrace for frustrating you |
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| 20:09.45 | crestfallen | kadiro, ^ |
| 20:10.16 | kadiro | i was disconnected |
| 20:10.28 | kadiro | crestfallen, did you try it |
| 20:11.18 | *** join/#debian estrom (estrom@gateway/vpn/mullvad/estrom) |
| 20:11.34 | crestfallen | kadiro, I was asking also how to get into the file to edit it, if its possible |
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| 20:12.25 | crestfallen | the machine is 2 km from here. I just need suggestions and then ride my bike to the machine to see if I can get it to load |
| 20:12.33 | kadiro | crestfallen, use any editor for that, nano or vim or the one that you can use |
| 20:12.46 | *** join/#debian estrom (estrom@gateway/vpn/mullvad/estrom) |
| 20:12.55 | kadiro | ok |
| 20:14.20 | kadiro | crestfallen, in that case you have some possibilities: 1- use the ttyx as i said and use one of the editors to access and modify that file, 2- use a live environment + chroot + fix/update ... |
| 20:14.24 | crestfallen | but it's a new os, I don't have vim. how to open the editor in this case? |
| 20:14.48 | kadiro | you have nano |
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| 20:15.04 | kadiro | or vi if you have experience about it |
| 20:15.35 | crestfallen | ok HOW to open vi ? |
| 20:15.52 | crestfallen | or nano |
| 20:15.54 | mutante | type "vi" |
| 20:15.55 | sponix | crestfallen: if you have to ask that -- you aren't ready for vi |
| 20:15.58 | mutante | or "vim" that is |
| 20:16.16 | Guest42011 | nano /etc/sources.list.d/sources.list |
| 20:16.20 | kadiro | crestfallen, just type vi , but myself i don't know how to use vi, i use nan as it is easier for me |
| 20:16.32 | kadiro | nano* |
| 20:16.35 | mutante | crestfallen: in general you type commands into the terminal to run programs |
| 20:17.31 | crestfallen | mutante there's no ui. so I need the skeletal cli. I did it once a few years ago. how to get to it when my ui won't load? |
| 20:17.35 | mutante | kadiro: nan is also nice, with garlic at the Indian restaurant |
| 20:18.08 | mutante | crestfallen: you don't need a UI, you just type it into the console |
| 20:18.37 | mutante | crestfallen: login: type user name ..type password .. then type "vi" |
| 20:18.48 | wifi | i'm having issues with modprobe on my PC based installations of debian (PC based, meaning non-ARM). i have an arcade joystick controller board that supports two players through one USB cord. The issue is that most (all?) linux distributions only recognize one controller instead of two - an issue that is widely known and documented many places around the web. There's also a known fix, involving ading a .conf file to the modprobe.d directory (or |
| 20:18.48 | wifi | /boot/cmdline.txt in raspbian) |
| 20:19.00 | mutante | actually i would recommend "vim" if it works. that is VI improved and the usable version |
| 20:19.04 | kadiro | mutante, I don't even know what is it :) |
| 20:19.14 | mutante | kadiro: it's a type of Indian flat bread |
| 20:19.26 | crestfallen | thanks I think I can get into (what I call for lack of a better name) the skeletal cli |
| 20:19.32 | kadiro | ah hm sound interesting |
| 20:20.11 | crestfallen | garlic nan bread to be precise |
| 20:20.16 | *** join/#debian estrom (estrom@gateway/vpn/mullvad/estrom) |
| 20:20.23 | mutante | crestfallen: if you dont even see a login yet.. then try CTRL + ALT + numbers 1 through 7 |
| 20:21.03 | crestfallen | thanks all sorry for the poorly framed questions. numbers or F1 etc? mutante |
| 20:21.33 | mutante | crestfallen: eh, F1 etc.. or try both |
| 20:22.35 | crestfallen | thanks I wonder if that dude actually overturned his table. |
| 20:22.56 | wifi | i know the controller works, because it works flawlessly on the raspbian installation, on raspberry pi hardware - but when i try to do the 'same' thing on any debian distro i have tried so far, then it seems to have no effect - even though i am certain that i am adding the correct information to the right files in the right places. (the ARM installation does the quirk through the cmdline.txt file, whereas debian in genereal seems to do it |
| 20:22.56 | wifi | through the modprobe files.) |
| 20:23.32 | kadiro | crestfallen, don't say that, folks here trying to help you |
| 20:23.48 | wifi | my question is - how do i troubleshoot the modprobe.d files? is there somewhere to go through the errors if any? |
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| 20:24.42 | crestfallen | I really appreciate it, but sometimes its hard to pose a question, esp when the machine is not loading the os kadiro. I always try to be polite and ask as best as I can |
| 20:24.55 | wifi | or is there some things i need to take into account, in order to make sure that modprobe conf files are read correctly? |
| 20:26.15 | kadiro | ok |
| 20:26.51 | kadiro | wifi, are you sure that joystick is working I mean both controllers? |
| 20:27.44 | kadiro | oh you already said that |
| 20:27.49 | kadiro | my bad |
| 20:27.50 | wifi | yes, positive - confirmed with raspbian (which applies the quirk correctly, but through an alternative method i think is unique to raspbian, and also ona windows PC |
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| 20:28.52 | kadiro | wifi, in your place i would compare the config file for both to see why it is working on pi and not on pc |
| 20:29.56 | wifi | agreed, but the raspbian and ubuntu way of applying the same quirk is different |
| 20:30.19 | wifi | different files in different locations, and different commands in those files |
| 20:30.43 | kadiro | that's the point, may be the systemd is the one to focus in this situation ( just guessing ) |
| 20:31.18 | *** join/#debian cinesc (~peter@c80-216-44-44.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 20:31.23 | wifi | im fairly new in troubleshooting anything linux, so your guess is very appreciated |
| 20:31.56 | mutante | crestfallen: try adding more details. for example "the OS is not loading" can be many things and nobody will be able to say much. but if you give people an actual error message that's a different story |
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| 20:34.15 | wifi | kadiro, alright i read about systemd now, and it looks exactly like the sort of thing i need to look into, to troubleshoot the issue - is there a nice way of shifting through the systemd list? |
| 20:34.50 | crestfallen | thanks I was doing it by memory. There actually wasn't an error message, just a blinking cursor mutante. I got pm'd here so hopefully I can follow the directions of that member. really appreciate it. |
| 20:35.07 | crestfallen | mutante, ^ |
| 20:35.47 | mutante | crestfallen: if all else fails you can boot from a USB flash drive |
| 20:35.59 | kadiro | wifi, to see the actual status of the your service systemctl status your_service , to start it use systemctl start your_service, same for stop/restart ... |
| 20:36.36 | kadiro | wifi, sometime you need to tweek in the service itself |
| 20:36.50 | crestfallen | you mean as a permanent solution? mutante |
| 20:37.03 | wifi | the quirk im adding is: "options usbhid quirks=0x0314:0x0328:0x040" |
| 20:37.11 | wifi | is usbhid the service then? |
| 20:37.16 | mutante | crestfallen: no, more like a solution to save all the data from it and then reinstall afterwards |
| 20:37.42 | kadiro | wifi, not sure, see what systemctl say about that |
| 20:37.55 | mutante | crestfallen: or to apply a fix where you have to change something on the hard disk to make it boot again |
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| 20:38.50 | cinesc | hi |
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| 20:39.07 | crestfallen | interesting mutante, so what hard disk issues should I be looking for? |
| 20:39.36 | cinesc | is sudo pip install capstone required to use after sudo apt-get install libcapstone3 libcapstone-dev ? |
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| 20:40.34 | Mathisen | cinesc, never run pip with sudo. you will mess thing upp belive me. been there done that |
| 20:41.02 | mutante | crestfallen: you got me wrong. i just meant "assume you find out what the fix is, for example 'change this line in this config file" but then you say "but i can't boot, how would i apply the fix" then the answer woudl be to boot from something else.. be able to write to the disk from there.. apply the fix.. and then be able to boot normally again. |
| 20:41.06 | cinesc | forgot to copy the only relevant part of it |
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| 20:41.42 | cinesc | apt-get install libcapstone3 libcapstone-dev |
| 20:41.49 | cinesc | pip install capstone |
| 20:41.49 | mutante | crestfallen: it does not mean i can tell what the issue is.. but broken harddisk is also possible. to find out more first try to get to one of those text login screens |
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| 20:42.15 | cinesc | do you only need to use one of these or both? |
| 20:42.34 | crestfallen | ok I'll give it a shot THANKS KINDLY |
| 20:42.46 | mutante | cinesc: only one. always prefer apt-get first if it works and avoid pip |
| 20:42.51 | debusr | in curl how can i streaming request to a server which use sreaming api to handle request sent from a client? |
| 20:42.56 | cinesc | ok |
| 20:43.15 | debusr | I try curl -T "http://localhost:8888/streaming_test" \ --http1.0 \ -H "Connection:Keep-Alive" \ -H "Content-Type:application/json" \ --data-binary "@/path/to/data.json" |
| 20:43.22 | mutante | cinesc: my experience with pip is kind of bad.. it doesnt always clean up after itself if you remove stuff and then you have mixed versions from apt-get and from pip and they can interfere and you are unsure which is used and so on |
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| 20:43.35 | cinesc | ouch |
| 20:43.43 | mutante | cinesc: that is why i say i would always prefer to just stick to apt-get ..if there is a package |
| 20:44.07 | debusr | Sorry it should be ` curl "http://localhost:8888/streaming_test" \ --http1.0 \ -H "Connection:Keep-Alive" \ -H "Content-Type:application/json" \ --data-binary "@/path/to/data.json"` (w/t -T) |
| 20:44.09 | cinesc | I suppose I should definitely avoid the pip command then |
| 20:44.17 | mutante | sometimes you might not be able to find a package and you are forced to use pip..but make it second choice |
| 20:44.26 | cinesc | ok |
| 20:44.42 | cinesc | https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/sandsifter/blob/master/README.md |
| 20:44.55 | cinesc | attempting to use this tool |
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| 20:45.52 | debusr | but it returns `curl: (18) transfer closed with outstanding read data remaining` |
| 20:46.01 | cinesc | but it first requires a few command only related packages to run |
| 20:46.03 | mutante | cinesc: ah, i see. so in this case it's a bit different. they suggest to install the libraries from APT and then the tool from pip |
| 20:46.42 | cinesc | should I still use it despite the risks of being a mess to deal with? |
| 20:46.58 | mutante | cinesc: i would try "apt-get install libcapstone3 libcapstone-dev capstone-tool" and see if it works. the capstone-tool package would replace the one installed from pip |
| 20:47.13 | mutante | it says capstone-tool is the command line tool |
| 20:47.28 | cinesc | going to try it once you said about the pip command being risky |
| 20:47.50 | mutante | well.. more like messy. messy to mix different package managers to install software |
| 20:48.54 | cinesc | how do you start sandsifter? |
| 20:49.03 | cinesc | is it just stifter? |
| 20:49.09 | cinesc | sifter* |
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| 20:49.26 | mutante | cinesc: apparently with that "sudo ./sifter.py ..." commandline |
| 20:49.40 | mutante | there is an example on the page you linked to |
| 20:49.53 | cinesc | sudo ./sifter.py --unk --dis --len --sync --tick -- -P1 -t |
| 20:49.56 | cinesc | this one? |
| 20:50.04 | mutante | yea.. if you did the step before it |
| 20:50.24 | mutante | it says you have to compile that yourself |
| 20:50.28 | cinesc | make doesn´t work |
| 20:51.00 | cinesc | completed the apt-get install part |
| 20:51.18 | mutante | cinesc: make can only work after you installed the library packages. so try again now |
| 20:52.00 | cinesc | tried that and it didn´t work at the first attempt |
| 20:52.32 | mutante | i would be shocked if it would. it's kind of normal that you have to keep trying .. see what is missing.. install the next dependency until it finally works |
| 20:52.38 | mutante | if you never compiled stuff before on this machine |
| 20:53.08 | mutante | try to see what is missing from the error message |
| 20:53.43 | wasamasa | such is developer life |
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| 21:26.44 | debuser_ | anyone here with baytrail mobile hardware or the like? It'm trying to debug backlight issues, and I _might_ have hit on something, but I need people to test it. |
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| 22:11.39 | prompt32 | i upgrade debian from 9->10 by change the repositories , its 2-3 days know |
| 22:12.25 | prompt32 | i make it, and to 8->9, but then was quiet smooth |
| 22:13.10 | prompt32 | now, all the core system upgraded normal amd complete, .... |
| 22:15.08 | prompt32 | but packages with name, not existed in buster, is mention as not install but when dependencies resolving, its there, and maybe produce problem,.... |
| 22:15.29 | prompt32 | if you remove and install, all is ok |
| 22:15.37 | debuser_ | prompt32, install aptitude and look at your "Obsolete" packages |
| 22:16.11 | debuser_ | anyone here with baytrail mobile hardware or the like? It'm trying to debug backlight issues, and I _might_ have hit on something, but I need people to test it. |
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| 22:18.28 | PinkySwear | Hi |
| 22:18.57 | PinkySwear | Sexually Mutilated at Birth: The Norm for Males in America - CCrippled |
| 22:19.00 | PinkySwear | https://www.bitchute.com/video/wx1qtOO7SNO6/ |
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| 22:19.26 | kadiro | what is that |
| 22:19.31 | debuser_ | that was quick |
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| 22:22.30 | Orbstheorem | How would i go to package a haskell project in debian? |
| 22:22.35 | Orbstheorem | s/i/I |
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| 22:52.58 | theozfalcon | is directfb dead? |
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| 22:55.31 | blas-fange | well, not sure, I still use it |
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| 22:56.01 | theozfalcon | What do you use it for? |
| 22:56.25 | theozfalcon | I have noticed libdirectfb packages on debian |
| 22:56.27 | blas-fange | for the programs: links2 and directvnc |
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| 22:57.05 | theozfalcon | However http://www.directfb.org/ seems to have been subverted |
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| 22:57.36 | blas-fange | you mean, no updates anymore? or what |
| 22:58.23 | theozfalcon | I have noticed that there ARE libdirectfb packages available. |
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| 23:15.14 | notconnected | quick question, can a dumb switch connected to a managed switch be vlan'ed? like all devices connected to that dumb switch? |
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| 23:15.25 | notconnected | its really a router on AP mode with devices connected to its switch |
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| 23:30.10 | RoyK | notconnected: not sure what you mean - just use a separate vlan for that switch? |
| 23:30.59 | notconnected | royk, thats what im doing, just isolating the dumb switch and every devices connected to it |
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| 23:35.08 | logan__ | notconnected: if you plug a dumb switch into an access port with VLAN #, then all switchports on the dumb switch are part of that VLAN |
| 23:35.30 | logan__ | dumb switches do not understand or use trunk ports |
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| 23:36.59 | cinesc | hi |
| 23:37.15 | logan__ | A better way to phrase it, is that a dumb switch isn't really a "switch" it is a bridge, or a splitter. It is an upgrade in efficiency from a hub, wherein all ports are operating in parallel continuously, but nothing more. |
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| 23:40.10 | RoyK | Nothing4You: just allocate a separate port on the managed switch to that VLAN, don't tag it, and you'll be ok |
| 23:40.38 | logan__ | Good point Roy, dumb switches don't understand tagging either |
| 23:40.57 | RoyK | logan__: if the dumb switch allows large frames, it'll forward the tagging, meaning whoever's connected can listen |
| 23:41.32 | logan__ | What would they hear from the tag? |
| 23:41.50 | RoyK | logan__: the switch will just forward the packages with the tag |
| 23:42.08 | logan__ | Oh I see, flooding the frames like a hub |
| 23:42.34 | RoyK | logan__: and a "dumb switch" is really a switch. a bridge is store-and-forward, a switch uses cut-through. a hub forwards everything to all ports |
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| 23:43.31 | logan__ | I'd also recommend doing a final check with something like Wireshark before signing off on your project whenever configuring layer 2 network |
| 23:43.48 | RoyK | a switch has a mac address table, which works well unless you spam it with more mac addresses than it supports, at which point it starts working as a hub |
| 23:45.10 | logan__ | Yes very advisable to check and see what there is to be seen before assuming that your switches are working correctly |
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| 23:47.44 | cinesc | is this reliable to trust If you need to update the microcode? |
| 23:47.46 | cinesc | https://itsfoss.com/debian-bug-intel-processor/ |
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