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| 00:05.04 | nvz | anybudy: the first thing you need to learn about python is that in many ways python 2.x is not compatible with python 3.x and your system is largely programmed in 2.x and removing python 2 will break your system |
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| 00:11.26 | jim | nvz, the python scripts that are being used for system purposes are gradually moving to python3 |
| 00:12.12 | nvz | everyone who isnt stupid or lazy is gradually moving to python3 doesn't change the fact that removing python from a debian system is a BAD idea |
| 00:12.14 | jim | also, it's better for you to start a python project using python3 |
| 00:12.41 | nvz | I didnt say USE python, I said don't remove it |
| 00:13.00 | nvz | I just wrote something in python3 this week, I didnt remove python to do it |
| 00:13.02 | jim | nvz, file bugs against packages containing python2 scripts |
| 00:13.21 | nvz | cause I'd break my entire DE, mplayer, mencoder, etc.. etc.. |
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| 00:14.42 | nvz | no, I think I'll pass I'm fine with having both and I dont care |
| 00:15.18 | jim | why post all that here then? :P |
| 00:15.54 | nvz | you could ask yourself the same thing |
| 00:15.58 | jim | it's apparant you do care, based solely on the fact you posted that stuff :) |
| 00:16.07 | nvz | I'm just in a stable support channel telling someone how to not totally FUBAR their system |
| 00:16.18 | nvz | you're telling me crap I already know and dont care about |
| 00:16.26 | anybudy | @jim @nvz I asked how I could check the packages depend on python2, I got an answer, I tried and I got 5-6 packages, I simulated the removal, I saw it was more than that.. |
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| 00:17.16 | jim | anybudy, yeah, don't remove python2 right now... your system needs it |
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| 00:17.44 | nvz | the python transition has a lot of things held up.. its not going to change anytime soon |
| 00:18.22 | nvz | as far as I'm concerned, I'm coding in python3.. so I'm doing my part :P |
| 00:19.22 | jim | and, many of the comments you're making should go to the debian devs of packages that contain python2 scripts |
| 00:19.43 | nvz | I'm pretty sure they're aware of it or don't care like me |
| 00:20.23 | jim | oh, I see, forgot where I was |
| 00:20.24 | nvz | its like adopting systemd.. there were people for it, against it.. and a whole shit ton who just didnt care |
| 00:20.35 | subcool | blackmajic: you question really made me feel like a complete idiot |
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| 00:28.32 | anybudy | @jim @nvz @annadane @EdePopede thank you all... |
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| 00:31.13 | jim | anybudy, welcome |
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| 00:56.06 | subcool | whats the deal with lib32asound? |
| 00:57.04 | petn-randall | subcool: Do you care to be more specific? |
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| 00:58.14 | subcool | i am trying to install teamviewer, and lib32asound2 seem to not be installablle. i read about it being a thing with busty. |
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| 01:09.02 | B|ack0p | nite |
| 01:09.14 | dvs | o/ |
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| 01:42.06 | terravires | hi all, need some help setting up QoS (tc) for an openvpn (tun0) connection two that would have two buckets (default/one subnet) so that subnet gets priority over the default connections. Anyone able to assist? |
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| 01:58.49 | tukta | xfce power manager has system tab and display tabs , system mentions suspend, display mentions "put to sleep after" x minutes |
| 01:59.55 | tukta | does one override the other? as I have system mode: suspend, inactive "never", but display put to sleep after 30 minutes, which isn't happening |
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| 03:21.04 | sludgelabbe | How come debian installs termcap to /lib/termcap even though that isn't a documented search location for termcap? The full search list is at manpage (5) termcap. |
| 03:21.11 | sludgelabbe | it is supposed to go to /usr/lib/termcap |
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| 03:29.40 | nvz | ,file lib/termcap |
| 03:29.47 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 03:31.04 | nvz | "The termcap database is an obsolete..." |
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| 03:31.28 | nvz | sludgelabbe: I'd revise my statements/questions if I were you :D |
| 03:33.22 | nvz | that quote is the first line of the /usr/share/man/man5/termcap.5.gz btw |
| 03:33.45 | Unit193 | ,v youtube-dl |
| 03:33.46 | judd | Package: youtube-dl on amd64 -- stretch: 2017.05.18.1-1; stretch-backports: 2019.01.17-1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 2019.01.17-1.1; bullseye: 2019.09.28-1; sid: 2019.09.28-1; bullseye-multimedia: 2019.11.28-dmo1; buster-multimedia: 2019.11.28-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 2019.11.28-dmo1 |
| 03:33.59 | nvz | my question would be why we have a manpage for something we don't have :P |
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| 03:36.38 | selim | anyone who can give me a hint which debug flag I need to switch, to see which accessdenied permission triggered the mount deny on client side for NFS? |
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| 03:37.38 | nvz | heh |
| 03:37.49 | nvz | I'm sorry but that question just sounded funny |
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| 03:37.53 | ZaZaGX | no hint |
| 03:38.03 | ZaZaGX | only answers |
| 03:38.26 | nvz | I haven't done nfs in a very long time.. but I seem to recall it being real good about logging |
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| 03:42.16 | sludgelabbe | oh sorry I meant terminfo, not termcap. IT has been a long day of coding. |
| 03:42.26 | sludgelabbe | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:42.32 | sludgelabbe | err |
| 03:42.33 | nvz | the bits that make me unsure how to find an answer if I werent wandering off are the "accessdenied permission" which makes no sense and you mentioning a mount deny client side like the error is occuring client side before it gets to the server.. which is also confounding.. you need to be more specific with what command you ran, and what message you get EXACTLY |
| 03:42.41 | sludgelabbe | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:42.54 | nvz | ,file lib/terminfo |
| 03:42.59 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 03:43.07 | nvz | wanders off |
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| 03:43.15 | sludgelabbe | hmm |
| 03:43.16 | nvz | ,file bin/bash |
| 03:43.21 | judd | Search for bin/bash in buster/amd64: bash: bin/bash |
| 03:43.28 | nvz | just to make sure the bot is working :P |
| 03:43.52 | nvz | (and my syntax was correct) |
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| 03:55.03 | ZaZaGX | if i were to get a new shiny laptop. what would you recommend for debian 10 install? |
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| 03:56.50 | dvs | ZaZaGX, not something within the last year (ie. Core Gen 10, Ryzen 3000 series) |
| 03:57.05 | ZaZaGX | oh no |
| 03:57.08 | ZaZaGX | i was thinking last year too |
| 03:57.11 | nvz | they were just offering a Thinkpad two models newer than mine, the T470 ( I have the T440) for $450 on ebay but that deal is gone.. a better one might be found tomorrow.. who knows |
| 03:57.32 | nvz | they're back to like $1400 right now new on ebay |
| 03:57.42 | ZaZaGX | oh my! |
| 03:57.50 | nvz | well 3 models newer I guess |
| 03:58.34 | ZaZaGX | how about the Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition? |
| 03:58.41 | ZaZaGX | it has Ubuntu 18.04 preinstalled |
| 03:58.56 | nvz | shrugs |
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| 03:59.03 | ZaZaGX | but i don't like Ubuntu 18.04 |
| 03:59.19 | nvz | doubt you'll hear many arguments with that here :P |
| 03:59.44 | ZaZaGX | thats why i use debian 10 now |
| 03:59.49 | dvs | rabble rabble rabble! |
| 04:00.28 | ZaZaGX | eureka? |
| 04:00.45 | nvz | I never owned a dell laptop.. I like thinkpads.. I do know dell tends to offer lots of options but I can't relaly speak for them |
| 04:01.03 | ZaZaGX | i used to have dell netbooks |
| 04:01.20 | nvz | didnt even know they had netbooks :P |
| 04:01.56 | ZaZaGX | i had almost a clone spec of the macbook for the dell netbook |
| 04:02.03 | ZaZaGX | installed Hackingtosh on it |
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| 04:04.16 | ZaZaGX | i always want something better and better. its such a bad addiction |
| 04:05.18 | nvz | well if you do it like I do.. then not really.. I like to get rid of a machine before its no longer of value and use that to buy a new one.. |
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| 04:06.19 | ZaZaGX | mine has some value |
| 04:06.20 | nvz | been wanting to sell this t440.. I'm plenty satisfied with the performance but I think I want a smaller model and wanna get rid of it before batteries arent holding a good charge.. I'm still at like 90Wh of the 96Wh design capacity |
| 04:06.56 | nvz | I got a new 240 m2 ssd in here I havent used yet.. still using the 120 SATA one |
| 04:07.08 | ZaZaGX | whoa thats slow |
| 04:07.12 | nvz | was plannin on prob selling it with the new ssd and sata bay open |
| 04:07.28 | nvz | its lightning fast for anything I ask it to do |
| 04:07.53 | ZaZaGX | i don't want a mac and don't want a chromebook. i used chromebooks since 2011 |
| 04:08.35 | ZaZaGX | chromebooks feel to restricted |
| 04:09.23 | nvz | only hw not supported otb on this is the card reader.. one of those pcie card readers that would prob work if a card was in it at boot. but the part that tells it a card was inserted/removed doesnt work.. is my guess.. I never tried to use it |
| 04:09.41 | ZaZaGX | hmm |
| 04:09.49 | ZaZaGX | maybe i don't need a newer laptop |
| 04:10.01 | nvz | I['m just guessing based on what I seen with other card readers that didnt work in linux |
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| 04:10.59 | ZaZaGX | oh |
| 04:11.01 | nvz | they usually work if the card is already in it.. but dont detect insertion/removal |
| 04:11.23 | ZaZaGX | i'm reading some tech reviews. it says i still have one of the best laptops around. but its 1 year old |
| 04:11.30 | ZaZaGX | oh |
| 04:12.01 | nvz | usb ones almost always work but pci* are hit and miss |
| 04:12.53 | ZaZaGX | i guess its a year and 4 months old upon release |
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| 04:13.07 | ZaZaGX | so its better to plug it in? |
| 04:13.12 | ZaZaGX | before installation? |
| 04:13.44 | nvz | I'm just talking about pci/pcie card readers.. they often have odd means of signaling insertion/removal that linux doesnt understand |
| 04:13.58 | nvz | if a card is present on boot it'll work most of them |
| 04:14.16 | ZaZaGX | oh ic |
| 04:14.23 | nvz | some attache internal card readers to the USB bus others to pcie |
| 04:15.11 | nvz | seems to be more common for built in peripherals to be on pcie than usb |
| 04:15.22 | nvz | probably due to better speed and power management |
| 04:15.25 | ZaZaGX | i guess its not worth getting a 10th gen Intel processor |
| 04:15.42 | nvz | but means of doing so is not really standardized as much |
| 04:15.58 | nvz | makes it problematic for kernel devs |
| 04:17.34 | nvz | when makers dont publish specs and dont conform to a standard.. what can you do. but hope the hw gets into the hands of a motivated developer |
| 04:17.49 | ZaZaGX | oh geez |
| 04:18.14 | ZaZaGX | not sure if i need a 6 core |
| 04:18.56 | nvz | I got tempted many times recently to do such things but I like my battery life a lot.. this thing lasts 16-24hrs on a charge usually |
| 04:19.04 | nvz | and is plenty powerful for my needs |
| 04:20.03 | nvz | typical draw at half or less brightness with wifi and low to moderate cpu load is usually under 5w |
| 04:20.03 | ZaZaGX | oh yeah |
| 04:20.36 | nvz | I can even use my external drive and charge my phone a time or two and still get great battery life |
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| 04:21.12 | nvz | but 96Wh is a lot of power |
| 04:21.24 | nvz | got a 24Wh internal and 72Wh external battery |
| 04:21.35 | ZaZaGX | maybe another year and a half at least |
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| 04:21.48 | ZaZaGX | i need more battery life and i want wifi 6 |
| 04:22.18 | dvs | ac! |
| 04:22.24 | nvz | this is what I like about these thinkpads.. both the X240 I had before this and the T440 both have two batteries.. lots of power |
| 04:22.36 | ZaZaGX | oh nice |
| 04:22.38 | nvz | and two mpcie slots |
| 04:22.49 | nvz | got wifi/bt in one and ssd in the other |
| 04:24.00 | ZaZaGX | i don't like bringing my ac adapter |
| 04:24.06 | nvz | I wanna ideally go back to the smaller X series but keep my dual batteries, dual pcie slots, fingerprint, 3 button touchpad, and fingerprint |
| 04:24.22 | nvz | I been looking at X250 and X260 and having a hard time finding one with all the stuff I want |
| 04:24.42 | nvz | these T440 didnt have the 3 button touchpad and 1080p screen as an option.. this crap was retrofitted |
| 04:25.23 | nvz | don't really wanna pay more than $300 |
| 04:25.32 | ZaZaGX | i only an x390 |
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| 04:26.15 | ZaZaGX | i only see an x390 |
| 04:26.20 | ZaZaGX | on lenovo.com |
| 04:26.35 | nvz | yeah I'm not buying from lenovo.. not looking to pay $1000+ |
| 04:26.44 | nvz | and I'm trying to stay several years behind |
| 04:26.52 | nvz | this one is 5 years old.. 2013 model |
| 04:27.09 | ZaZaGX | omg thats old |
| 04:27.14 | nvz | they're cheaper, better supported, and parts are cheaper when you stay behind the curve |
| 04:27.56 | ZaZaGX | i would only want 2 or 3 years behind |
| 04:28.19 | nvz | well you'll be paying double what I pay or more for that kinda thing :P |
| 04:28.38 | nvz | I generally pay $100-200 for a machine |
| 04:28.49 | nvz | and try recoup most or all of it from my last one |
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| 04:29.14 | ZaZaGX | omg thats cheap |
| 04:29.26 | nvz | yeah well I didnt pay anything for this one :P |
| 04:29.35 | ZaZaGX | i thought older machines aren't supported anymore. like hardware is out dated and old |
| 04:29.39 | dvs | because he stole it! |
| 04:29.52 | nvz | I got like $73 in it now cause I puked on the keyboard and couldnt get the smell out so I replaced it.. and put that new ssd in it |
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| 04:30.20 | nvz | na, I traded a t42p, couple broken t61 for it.. missing screens, hdds, caddies, batteries.. etc |
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| 04:30.45 | nvz | the t42p was in nearly new condition.. small crack on the side of the lid.. |
| 04:31.01 | nvz | but that was an IBM Thinkpad.. Pentium M, 1GB ram.. |
| 04:32.02 | ZaZaGX | thats too old |
| 04:32.11 | nvz | no.. thats ancient :P |
| 04:32.20 | ZaZaGX | thats like ancient dinosaur technology |
| 04:32.27 | nvz | been a long time since lenovo bought IBM's personal computer division |
| 04:32.35 | ZaZaGX | don't you want more better effective energy power? |
| 04:32.59 | nvz | the kid I traded it to was trying to make a collection of restored models |
| 04:33.08 | nvz | he was thrilled.. I felt like I was rippin him off |
| 04:33.43 | ZaZaGX | oh ic |
| 04:33.49 | ZaZaGX | ripping off kids now> |
| 04:33.59 | nvz | these T440 are still selling for like $200 and thats without the 1080p screen and 3 button touchpad and ssds and big batteries he put in it |
| 04:34.13 | nvz | the crap he put in this was probably woth $200 or more |
| 04:35.00 | ZaZaGX | oh my! |
| 04:35.10 | nvz | he gave it to me with the smaller power cord though but I sold that with the x240 and kept the bigger one I had.. the 90W one rather than the 65W |
| 04:35.17 | nvz | cause I planned to get a dock at some point |
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| 04:36.49 | nvz | when I say kid.. he was in college.. I'm just 36.. so 18-24 is pretty young to me.. |
| 04:39.38 | ZaZaGX | lol |
| 04:40.12 | ZaZaGX | what was his reason for wanting your stuff? he just thicker? |
| 04:40.37 | nvz | I said he is looking to build a collection.. thinkpad fanatic.. wants to have one of each model refurbed |
| 04:40.50 | nvz | said he remembered his dad having a t42p.. was thrilled to get his hands on one |
| 04:41.02 | nvz | said he was gonna put an ssd in it and deck it out like he did this one |
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| 04:42.08 | ZaZaGX | ohhh |
| 04:42.16 | ZaZaGX | i didn't know he was a collector |
| 04:42.42 | nvz | I'd listed all the old crap mostly parts other than that machine for sale and he contacted me and asked would I do a trade.. and I had the x240 which is basically same machine and at the time I needed money.. so I didnt really want to but I did it anyhow after making sure he knew the crap wasnt worth what he was giving me.. cause I figured it'd be easier to sell the t440 or x240 than the crap I was trying to |
| 04:42.48 | nvz | sell :P |
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| 04:46.35 | ZaZaGX | oh hic |
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| 04:46.49 | nvz | sold the X240 for $100 to my cousin and kept the t440 he modded out |
| 04:47.15 | ZaZaGX | does it have a security chip of a backdoor? |
| 04:47.20 | nvz | so really this machine even with the $73 I put in it so far was still basically free |
| 04:47.34 | nvz | yeah, it has those tpm and computrace things in it |
| 04:47.37 | ZaZaGX | aka hardware chip backdoor |
| 04:47.49 | nvz | I have em turned off cause I dont use em |
| 04:47.50 | ZaZaGX | oh my |
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| 04:49.06 | ZaZaGX | i have never heard of computrace |
| 04:49.08 | nvz | t series have had those kinds of things for ages.. |
| 04:49.21 | nvz | its designed for recovery of stolen hardware |
| 04:49.24 | ZaZaGX | oh LoJack |
| 04:49.34 | ZaZaGX | does it work? |
| 04:49.42 | nvz | hell if I know, I dont use it |
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| 04:50.32 | ZaZaGX | how can you disable it> |
| 04:50.56 | nvz | there are settings to disable everything.. mic, cam.. you name it.. |
| 04:51.05 | nvz | or you could put custom firmware in |
| 04:51.28 | nvz | the security features have two options.. disable and permanently disable.. |
| 04:51.28 | ZaZaGX | in the BIOS? |
| 04:51.33 | nvz | yeah |
| 04:51.40 | ZaZaGX | ohhh that easy |
| 04:51.47 | ZaZaGX | i thought it was harder |
| 04:52.51 | ZaZaGX | i read back than. you couldn't disable it. and if you flash the bios, it would reinstall the LoJack again |
| 04:53.11 | ZaZaGX | but its design for Windows and Mac |
| 04:53.25 | nvz | idk much about em.. but the bios says if you do the perm disable you can't re-enable it |
| 04:53.39 | nvz | idk if it blows a fuse or sometihng.. never looked into it |
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| 04:54.18 | ZaZaGX | oh its on the Absolute Persistence Technology |
| 04:55.24 | ZaZaGX | i don't know |
| 04:56.41 | nvz | damn circuits are microscopic.. can't really trust anything anymore.. so I dont get to bent outta shape about it |
| 04:57.03 | ZaZaGX | i read you can disable it |
| 04:57.13 | ZaZaGX | or you would have to change the motherboard |
| 04:57.21 | ZaZaGX | which would cost a lot |
| 04:57.33 | ZaZaGX | but LoJack wouldn't confirm anything abou tit |
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| 04:58.26 | nvz | gave up on trust but verify.. goes for just not trusting but dont wear a tin foil hat |
| 04:59.57 | ZaZaGX | i don't know |
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| 05:00.54 | ZaZaGX | good thing i don't have lojack on my laptop |
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| 06:35.58 | ZaZaGX | hi |
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| 07:04.20 | linux_user | I am curious how do I request that the next Debian ISOs provide for greater than a 255MB /boot partition by default? |
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| 07:07.29 | sponix | linux_user: good luck with that |
| 07:07.55 | linux_user | why do you say that? |
| 07:08.09 | linux_user | disk space is cheap why only 255MB by default? seems dumb and anicent |
| 07:08.21 | jm_ | see #886642 |
| 07:08.22 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/886642 in debian-installer (open): «please default to a larger /boot for guided partitioning»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2018-01-08; last modified: 2018-01-08. |
| 07:08.36 | sponix | linux_user: likely because it shouldn't be needed -> /dev/nvme0n1p1 74M 5.1M 69M 7% /boot/efi |
| 07:08.47 | sponix | I'm using under 6MB |
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| 07:09.06 | SwedeMike | sponix: my initrds are 23M each |
| 07:09.07 | linux_user | I am talking about the /boot where the kernel goes |
| 07:09.10 | linux_user | not boot EFI |
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| 07:09.37 | sponix | oh... pretty sure my kernel is just on /root and that I don't have /boot separate |
| 07:09.40 | sponix | goes to check |
| 07:09.53 | linux_user | that is not the way its guided partitioning does it |
| 07:09.57 | jm_ | so you can fit 8 kernels in 255MB - how many do you have installed? |
| 07:10.02 | linux_user | if you want it to do the partition it makes it too small |
| 07:10.33 | sponix | I will admit, I never go with the defaults for partition layout |
| 07:10.44 | linux_user | I am talking about the defaults it uses |
| 07:10.54 | linux_user | obviously one can change it , there is no need to ask them to do that. |
| 07:11.02 | linux_user | we are talking the default partitioning |
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| 07:11.33 | linux_user | anyway, I installed Debian and then installed proxmox and it had very little room left in /boot |
| 07:11.42 | linux_user | it does NOT fit 8 kernels |
| 07:13.22 | ihristov | You can always move the boot into the root partition if you run out of space on /boot |
| 07:13.53 | linux_user | how? my root is encrypted |
| 07:14.03 | ihristov | Baaad :) |
| 07:14.20 | linux_user | bad? why is it bad, encryption is good, I am lost as to why you say that |
| 07:14.24 | linux_user | its an install option Debian offers |
| 07:14.27 | linux_user | I used it |
| 07:14.51 | linux_user | disk space is cheap today, why not just give people a GB of /boot? |
| 07:14.55 | linux_user | what is the issue with that? |
| 07:15.00 | linux_user | why would everyone argue that? |
| 07:15.22 | ihristov | No one is arguing here |
| 07:15.26 | sponix | Seems if Proxmox is your host OS, you should have let it re-partition for its needs. It likely does things differently than stock Debian in that department because it has different goals for its use |
| 07:15.35 | jm_ | so far you seem to be the second person to want it, looks like default is good enough for majority |
| 07:15.35 | ihristov | Like the other guys said, you can always use manual partitioning |
| 07:16.19 | sponix | If you have "special needs" ... Then the defaults may not work.... They are just defaults because they work for 90% of everyone else |
| 07:16.46 | ihristov | Actually you can try the latest ubuntu with the experimental ZFS file system and then you will receive a huge /boot by defaut |
| 07:17.18 | ihristov | * Experimental in the installer |
| 07:17.19 | linux_user | I would never run Ubuntu |
| 07:17.29 | linux_user | they are Constantine changing things |
| 07:17.32 | sponix | I run my swap off of a file instead of a partition, so I can change the size if I want to, have my /home split off to save my user prefs if I reinstall the OS, and other things of that nature -- thus no defaults for me |
| 07:17.34 | linux_user | constantlying |
| 07:17.47 | linux_user | that's fine |
| 07:18.01 | linux_user | I just think that there is no reason not to have a default of 1 GB? |
| 07:18.18 | linux_user | it might mean that more people could use the default |
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| 07:18.23 | linux_user | that makes it better for more people |
| 07:18.26 | grisher | most better have better use for that 1gb |
| 07:18.37 | sponix | I do :) |
| 07:18.48 | linux_user | we have multi TB disks today it is meaningless |
| 07:18.56 | sponix | That could store a 1080p Porno for example lol |
| 07:19.07 | grisher | my laptop has a 128gb ssd |
| 07:19.14 | grisher | every gb is needed |
| 07:19.20 | sponix | My OS drive is only 960GB, and most have 120/250 right now |
| 07:19.45 | grisher | most laptops do not have multi tb |
| 07:20.07 | sponix | 98% of the people would be wishing they had that 1GB for something else, vs the few that don't |
| 07:20.22 | sponix | So, statistically it isn't likely going to happen |
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| 07:26.44 | linux_user | well surely the installer could be smart enough to notice if its a 1TB or greater drive and choose a better default in the case of such. |
| 07:26.53 | linux_user | then people with small HDs don't get impacted |
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| 07:38.25 | linux_user | by the way, whatever person said 8 kernel fit in 248MB is flat wrong and a buffoon. I just installed Debian Buster and the kernel is 88MB, so that would be 2 not 8 kernels. |
| 07:38.32 | linux_user | 8 kernel=8 kernels |
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| 07:40.06 | jm_ | yeah keep asking for help and calling people names |
| 07:40.21 | linux_user | just saying the person who said that was a fool |
| 07:40.28 | linux_user | and has no clue |
| 07:40.30 | jm_ | I said that dickhead |
| 07:40.36 | linux_user | whatever |
| 07:40.47 | linux_user | so now you know it was wrong |
| 07:40.59 | linux_user | and it was a foolish |
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| 07:41.16 | jm_ | yeah keep being clueless |
| 07:41.35 | jm_ | I'll stop wasting everyone's time talking to you |
| 07:41.47 | linux_user | you say what you want, but if you actually tested what I am telling you you'd see you are the person that is wasting peoples time |
| 07:41.50 | linux_user | the default kernel is 88MB |
| 07:41.53 | linux_user | that is 1/3 of 248MB |
| 07:41.56 | linux_user | actually more |
| 07:42.05 | linux_user | thus your comments are just silly and wrong |
| 07:42.20 | linux_user | you are giving people bad advice and now you don't like having it pointed out |
| 07:42.22 | linux_user | may I ask why? |
| 07:42.42 | sponix | linux_user: you could have booted off the Live USB and expanded your /boot 500 times by now -- quit bitching and fix it |
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| 07:42.53 | sponix | linux_user: "gparted" is your friend |
| 07:43.01 | linux_user | I am talking about the default guided install |
| 07:43.07 | jm_ | if you bothered to check the facts you would have noticed that majority of that size does not live in /boot ... my final comment |
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| 07:43.36 | sponix | linux_user: If you want better defaults for n00bz ... Try Linux Mint lol |
| 07:43.50 | linux_user | so Debian is not made for new users |
| 07:43.51 | linux_user | got it |
| 07:44.05 | linux_user | I always had heard it was meant for everyone |
| 07:44.07 | linux_user | clearly not |
| 07:44.17 | han-solo | i am noob, i use debian :) |
| 07:44.46 | linux_user | well all I can say is that when you come somewhere and get given bad information like JM gave out that is not good for new users. |
| 07:44.52 | sponix | Seems not for you, since you can't be bothered to go against the defaults for your non-standard use case. Last I heard it was Proxmox you are having issues with anyway -- Not Debian |
| 07:45.02 | linux_user | why not get rid of the defaults then? |
| 07:45.11 | linux_user | why have them at all? |
| 07:45.11 | linux_user | why not force everyone to partition by hand right? |
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| 07:45.24 | sponix | linux_user: If you want that, try Arch :) |
| 07:45.27 | linux_user | I am not using a non-standard use case |
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| 07:45.41 | linux_user | I installed its default and its used over 1/3 of the partition |
| 07:45.42 | sponix | defaults are "good for the majority" .... Not "everyone" |
| 07:45.45 | linux_user | that is a standard install |
| 07:45.53 | linux_user | that is not non-standard |
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| 07:46.16 | sponix | And how many kernels are you running, past the "default" LTS 4.19 ? |
| 07:46.36 | jm_ | shakes his head ... |
| 07:46.58 | jim | linux_user, if you leave the sources.list file alone for the first few months, and also only install softwqare from apt, debian can work very well (stable, fast, not too breakable) |
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| 07:47.11 | sponix | Luckily he left |
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| 07:48.02 | sponix | Not sure why every user that has an issue wants to blame the OS, instead of how they are using it :P |
| 07:48.11 | sponix | AJ_Z0: you following me again ? |
| 07:49.12 | Der | sponix: isnt that why there are man pages? to learn how to usebthings? |
| 07:49.45 | Der | imean theyre not always perfect... but still useful. |
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| 07:50.40 | sponix | If there was NO Option to do a custom partition layout... Then his argument _might_ have been a bit more valid |
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| 08:01.29 | Haohmaru | i always do custom partitioning, i may use the "partition automatically" first, to see what it does, and then i adjust things a lil |
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| 08:02.31 | Haohmaru | and i try to stick to stuff that come from synaptic and only use backports for one or two programs, no crapware |
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| 08:11.20 | Lope | hey guys I installed debian on a headless server, but now I need to be able to print on a physical printer from KDE plasma. I installed cups but I've got no printer management UI and when I open a print dialogue my HP printer doesn't appear (I have printed with this printer on ubuntu before, so it is supported by linux) |
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| 08:12.42 | Lope | (I changed it from headless to a normal desktop, by installing kde-plama etc) |
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| 08:13.49 | jm_ | Lope: you can manage cups via browser |
| 08:14.04 | Lope | a web browser? |
| 08:14.25 | Lope | I recall there used to be some qt/gtk/whatever printer management GUI thing, what happened to that? |
| 08:14.47 | jm_ | yes, have you tried this first? https://wiki.debian.org/SystemPrinting |
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| 08:15.48 | Lope | After installing the cups package, Now I've got all this installed: cups cups-browsed cups-client cups-common cups-core-drivers cups-daemon cups-filters cups-filters-core-drivers cups-ipp-utils cups-ppdc cups-server-common libcups2:amd64 libcupsfilters1:amd64 libcupsimage2:amd64 |
| 08:15.50 | jm_ | probably try this first if it works https://wiki.debian.org/CUPSDriverlessPrinting |
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| 08:24.06 | Lope | hey jim, thanks. I'm not winning here :/ |
| 08:24.15 | Lope | I installed a few more things. |
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| 08:24.48 | Lope | cups-browsed ippusbxd task-print-server |
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| 08:25.08 | Lope | But still, my physical printer doesn't show up when I try print a PDF |
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| 08:25.40 | Lope | I also installed printer-driver-cups-pdf but the cups printer doesn't show up either |
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| 08:26.02 | Lope | I've also still got no qt/gtk printer management GUI |
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| 08:26.55 | Lope | which is odd. In ubuntu I never did anything to make printing on a USB printer work. I literally just plugged the printer in and pressed print and it showed up, there was a GUI that listed all physical printers etc. |
| 08:27.21 | Lope | So I'm not looking to manually setup conf files etc. Surely automagic printing is available? |
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| 08:27.51 | Lope | I don't want to become an expert on printing, I just want to print a document as soon as possible without any hassles. |
| 08:28.28 | jm_ | that driverless printing thing is new magic |
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| 08:32.01 | no_gravity | Why does OverlayFS need a "work" directory? |
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| 08:33.55 | jm_ | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/324515/linux-filesystem-overlay-what-is-workdir-used-for-overlayfs |
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| 08:36.12 | no_gravity | Hmm.. looks like it is for temporary data. So I guess I can place it in /tmp/ then? |
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| 08:37.42 | jm_ | man page says it needs to be on the same fs as upperdir |
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| 08:39.44 | jim | Lope, hmm? |
| 08:42.28 | no_gravity | Yup, but /tmp/ is on the same fs. |
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| 08:44.04 | Lope | I think what I was looking for was system-config-printer |
| 08:44.13 | no_gravity | Ok, gotta go! Cu! |
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| 08:45.24 | Lope | so my next question, is how do I get my USB printer to show up |
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| 08:46.34 | b30wulf | plug it in |
| 08:47.52 | Derlg | Lope: prettymuch that simple |
| 08:47.53 | Lope | b30wulf, it is plugged in and does show up with lsusb |
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| 08:48.08 | Lope | do I need to reboot, since installing cups etc? |
| 08:48.18 | Lope | I've tried restarting the cups service and cups-browsed etc |
| 08:48.33 | Derlg | not to make printer work |
| 08:49.01 | Lope | I've used this printer before on ubuntu, I just plugged it in and it worked. |
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| 08:49.35 | Lope | so I've got a debian debootstrapped install, I've installed cups which has added a ton of cups things, including printer-driver-hpcups printer-driver-hpijs |
| 08:49.40 | Lope | (my printer is HP USB) |
| 08:50.02 | colo-work | do you have hplip installed? |
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| 08:50.15 | colo-work | you probably need it for recent HP devices |
| 08:50.21 | colo-work | (afaik) |
| 08:50.36 | Lope | Yes, I've got hplip and hplip-data |
| 08:51.38 | b30wulf | do u have printer-driver-hpijs |
| 08:51.43 | Lope | Ok, now I installed hplip-gui I opened it and it says no installed hp-devices found |
| 08:51.56 | Lope | yes I do have that, see my 4th last line above |
| 08:52.12 | b30wulf | ok |
| 08:52.16 | b30wulf | reboot |
| 08:52.34 | colo-work | Lope, did you re-plug the printer? maybe some udev rule got installed but not re-triggered |
| 08:52.46 | Lope | brilliant, the hplip-gui thingy told me to run hpsetup, and it has found the printer! |
| 08:52.58 | colo-work | \o/ |
| 08:52.59 | b30wulf | heh |
| 08:53.01 | Lope | hp-setup sorry |
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| 08:53.21 | Lope | I actually remember doing this at some point years ago. |
| 08:53.21 | b30wulf | good stuff |
| 08:53.28 | b30wulf | what are u going to print now |
| 08:53.39 | Lope | Now it shows up! |
| 08:54.28 | Lope | LOL fuck. I had to close and reopen my PDF viewer for the printer to show up as well |
| 08:54.57 | Lope | but it did appear in the system-config-printer GUI immediately once I finished hp-setup |
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| 08:55.01 | jomofcw | Hello ! |
| 08:55.29 | b30wulf | hi |
| 08:56.24 | jomofcw | I misunderstood something with mv command :s... I would like to move ./directory/* to ./ but when I do it, it want to move it in the same directory... I don't want mv to create the source directory in the target, i just want it to move file from the source to the destination... how can I achieve this, please ? |
| 08:57.26 | jomofcw | Not sure that i'm clear on what I need xD. |
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| 08:58.34 | jm_ | «mv dir/* .» moves all files (and dirs) from dir to . - what exactly do you want to do? |
| 08:58.50 | jm_ | well not all, .* ones are not moved |
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| 09:07.19 | b30wulf | jomofcw: mv ./directory/** ./ |
| 09:07.22 | jomofcw | jm_ my example is confusing, I change it : I want to move /path/to/directory/* to /destination. But when I do "mv /path/to/directory/* /destination" it create a "directory" folder in "/destination". I just want it to move the files/folders that are in "/path/to/directory" not the folder "directory" itself. Clearer ? |
| 09:07.47 | b30wulf | two asterisks |
| 09:07.57 | jomofcw | b30wulf OK thanks ! I give it a try. |
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| 09:08.03 | b30wulf | :) |
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| 09:09.33 | jomofcw | It's OK ! Thanks ^^. |
| 09:09.50 | b30wulf | np |
| 09:09.58 | hummingbee | is this new? one asterisk works for me |
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| 09:11.04 | jm_ | jomofcw: mv doesn't work they way you describe, so you must have directory as "directory/directory" in source location - if you want to collapse tree structure then yeah, some sort of recursive argument generation will be needed (** does that), but I'd use mv -i with that |
| 09:11.38 | hummingbee | oh thanks for clearing it up jm |
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| 09:12.06 | b30wulf | the guy just wanted to move the files quick and simple |
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| 09:12.58 | EdePopede | mc uses 256 color in screen only if a fake $TERM to xterm-256color. doesn't even work with screen.xterm-256color. iirc i had 3 reasons for not using them together: 256 colors, F-Keys, subshell. keys work, subshell does not, colors just with a trick. even `tput colors` reports 256. so.. what's its problem? ms itself or ncurses? where could they get their wrong info from? |
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| 09:16.52 | jm_ | checking mc sources it uses tty_use_256colors() which simply does return (COLORS == 256); - so one would need to check how ncurses sets that |
| 09:18.29 | EdePopede | ah thanks, i'll do this later on my fresh (yeah!) Buster |
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| 09:19.49 | EdePopede | i think i've read some time ago that there's a newer alternative to ncurses for building mc. but forgot its name. |
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| 09:21.03 | EdePopede | newt i think |
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| 09:23.13 | jm_ | it supports ncurses or slang |
| 09:24.07 | jm_ | (newt uses slang) |
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| 09:28.02 | EdePopede | yea, mentioned on alternativeto.net. and been instantly confused by s-lang being described as a scripting language. |
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| 09:28.25 | jm_ | I tried to quickly check how ncurses handles that but haven't figoured it out, yeah slang has two parts, scripting + term stuff |
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| 09:29.50 | jm_ | odd, I have "term screen-256color" in .screenrc and tput colors says 256 with it, yet mc still complains, and of course, it's built with libslang2 in debian :P |
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| 09:31.58 | EdePopede | whiptail seems also related to it. |
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| 09:33.29 | EdePopede | slang starting with buster? tried to build the then latest tarball from their hp, with ncurses iirc, failed because of utf-8. didn't want to put too much effort into it, so i made a note for some time in the future. |
| 09:33.49 | jm_ | not sure if this changed with buster, I would say no |
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| 09:34.27 | EdePopede | did this on... dammit. debian 9 it was. still using it here and can't even remember this single codename -.- |
| 09:34.46 | jm_ | stretch |
| 09:34.58 | EdePopede | correct. thanks. |
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| 09:36.18 | EdePopede | btw, where does the term command come from? doesn't seem to have it and can't remember which bot reports such things and not even sure about the syntax |
| 09:36.34 | EdePopede | s/doesn/don/ |
| 09:36.48 | jm_ | dpkg the bot can do that, or simply install apt-file to find it locally |
| 09:36.48 | dpkg | jm_: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request |
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| 09:37.06 | EdePopede | dpkg that's not true! |
| 09:37.06 | dpkg | EdePopede: I give up, what is it? |
| 09:37.07 | jm_ | can't find bin/term in debian |
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| 09:38.58 | rander2 | hello all |
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| 09:39.58 | EdePopede | i even have apt-file installed. only never use it it seems. and it doesn't find anything :| |
| 09:40.05 | jm_ | apt-file update |
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| 09:41.09 | EdePopede | just did it, still no results. or i may have to reread the manpage |
| 09:41.39 | jm_ | I have alias aptfs='apt-file -x' |
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| 09:43.14 | jm_ | I wrote IRC client using libslang for UI, and it worked with 256 colors in screen AFAIR |
| 09:43.17 | EdePopede | E: Cannot open screen: No such file or directory <-- that's all i get (in this case for screen) |
| 09:43.27 | jm_ | what did you type? |
| 09:43.43 | EdePopede | apt-file -f -x show screen # added -x this time |
| 09:43.54 | jm_ | apt-file -x search screen |
| 09:44.13 | jm_ | or apt-file list screen |
| 09:44.25 | EdePopede | oh. at least it doesn't instantly return |
| 09:44.31 | EdePopede | results! |
| 09:45.58 | rander2 | I'm looking from install falkon browser on strech 32bit, but it don't exist on repository. Trying to install it with snap I obtain: " error: snap "falkon" is not available on stable for this architecture (i386) |
| 09:45.58 | rander2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:46.17 | EdePopede | apt-file search bin/term # did it now. no idea why i added -f after the first tries. at least it didn't give me results for term until right now. yay. |
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| 09:46.54 | rander2 | others light browser as midori, epiphany are outdate |
| 09:47.01 | EdePopede | only still no 'term' command. |
| 09:47.54 | jm_ | yeah that's what I said, I can't find bin/term in debian - what does the command do? |
| 09:47.57 | EdePopede | N: Unable to locate package falkon <-- rander2, and i'm on stretch 64bit here |
| 09:48.43 | rander2 | EdePopede, so falkon don't exist in stretch 64bit too ? |
| 09:48.45 | jm_ | some people use 32bit debian with 64bit kernel and select few 64bit packages, maybe that would work for you |
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| 09:49.16 | rander2 | no, I'm using kernel 32bit too, sorry |
| 09:49.31 | EdePopede | jm_, found a snipplet here: https://aweirdimagination.net/2015/02/21/256-color-terminals/ taken from https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GNU_Screen#Use_256_colors |
| 09:49.57 | jm_ | EdePopede: that's a command for ~/.screenrc not a shell command |
| 09:50.18 | EdePopede | ah. right. didn't touch that file in years i think. |
| 09:51.42 | Regor | while installing debian asked me to give wifi firmware mt760lu.bin file . i copied it from my xubuntu bin folder to debian bootable usb so it may detect it ...but it doesnt ... which folder i should copy mt760lu.bin file into ? |
| 09:51.44 | EdePopede | oh, not true. i need more coffee. actually i have 'term screen-256color' there. |
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| 09:53.35 | jm_ | Regor: manual says To prepare a USB stick (or other medium like a hard drive partition, or floppy disk), the firmware files or packages must be placed in either the root directory or a directory named /firmware of the file system on the medium. |
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| 09:55.37 | jm_ | is it perhaps included on firmware images? |
| 09:55.40 | jm_ | !firmware images |
| 09:55.40 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
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| 09:55.52 | rander2 | EdePopede, are you backports enabled ? |
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| 09:56.05 | EdePopede | ,v falkon |
| 09:56.06 | judd | Package: falkon on amd64 -- buster: 3.0.0-3; bullseye: 3.1.0+dfsg1-6; sid: 3.1.0+dfsg1-6 |
| 09:56.13 | EdePopede | same for i386 |
| 09:56.32 | EdePopede | rander2: nope, and won't happen. this stretch is about to go. |
| 09:57.11 | rander2 | I followed this istruction : https://snapcraft.io/install/falkon/debian # but nothing. So must I updgrade the system to buster ? |
| 09:57.38 | EdePopede | ah. snap. never used them. isn't this that ubuntu thing? |
| 09:58.04 | EdePopede | !backports |
| 09:58.04 | rander2 | no, it's from debian. |
| 09:58.05 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
| 09:58.27 | EdePopede | but it wasn't reported for backports, so... |
| 09:58.58 | Regor | jm_: i used unetbootin/xubuntu to make bootable debian 10 using debian official live iso xfce |
| 09:58.58 | EdePopede | you should if you have no reason to stay with stretch 32bit. buster's out for some time now. |
| 10:00.36 | rander2 | I'm trying to use a old netbook with atom N2600 2Gbyte ram. Firefox aand chrome are slow and hungry of memory |
| 10:01.06 | EdePopede | !snap |
| 10:01.07 | dpkg | [snap] a snap is a tweaker or fiend, someone whose level of addiction to a substance is so intense, they will get it at any cost. If you were looking for snap packages, consider the previous statement and perhaps professional help on your <#dsm> classifyable disorder. |
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| 10:01.26 | EdePopede | i just learned that snap is the package format, but the software is snappy. |
| 10:01.38 | rander2 | others light browser as midori, epiphany , netsurt are outdated |
| 10:01.55 | EdePopede | "Snappy is a software deployment and package management system developed by Canonical" - available to many distros, but still.. a ubuntu baby |
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| 10:02.33 | ratrace | EdePopede: snappy is also a Ubuntu distribution flavor. ConfusingTechTermsFTW(tm) |
| 10:02.38 | EdePopede | rander2: sure, stretch is pretty old now. a new release every few years. and unlike other distros debian isn't a rolling one |
| 10:02.49 | EdePopede | ARGH. |
| 10:03.19 | rander2 | It's the first time I use snap, trying to install falkon. It was suggest me on a debian user in lapton debian mailing list. Another user that use a old netbook, but he use sid with backports |
| 10:03.20 | EdePopede | ,b epiphany |
| 10:03.22 | ratrace | though in reality, the snap package manager is "snapd", not snappy. the package is "snapd", and the command is "snap". there's no direct use of "snappy" term when you work with it |
| 10:03.23 | EdePopede | ,v epiphany |
| 10:03.24 | judd | Package: epiphany on amd64 -- jessie: 0.7.0+0-3; stretch: 0.7.0+0-3+b1; buster: 0.7.0+0-5; bullseye: 0.7.0+0-5+b1; sid: 0.7.0+0-5+b1 |
| 10:03.42 | EdePopede | 0.7.0 for all of them? |
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| 10:04.38 | rander2 | epiphany is outdated, I have 3.22.7 installed, but some site isn't visible. |
| 10:05.12 | EdePopede | yea, seen it on wikipedia (the gnome site hides the history it seems) |
| 10:05.47 | EdePopede | ,v midori |
| 10:05.49 | judd | Package: midori on amd64 -- stretch: 0.5.11-ds1-4+b1; buster: 7.0-2; bullseye: 7.0-2+b1; sid: 7.0-2+b1 |
| 10:05.52 | EdePopede | a better one |
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| 10:07.11 | rander2 | midori sometime crash, it's unstable |
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| 10:07.56 | rander2 | 0.5.11 installed from repository |
| 10:08.19 | EdePopede | and after seing midori's website i wouldn't even consider using it |
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| 10:08.33 | EdePopede | mobile first, scripted only |
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| 10:09.31 | EdePopede | rander2: that's why it is 0.x ;) actually a lot of software was kept on linux below 1.0 even if stable. but still so many features to implement until it is considered complete... |
| 10:09.46 | rander2 | EdePopede, this is. Basically midori and ephipany have problems, so I'm looking from another light browser |
| 10:10.33 | EdePopede | rander2: yeah, i was just looking for something like midori's release history in debian. for buster it made a big jump, only i can't find a release history on their page |
| 10:11.11 | rander2 | so must I upgrade the system to buster ? |
| 10:11.30 | EdePopede | especially for browsers it is a good thing to be up-to-date with the OS (or use backports) since there's a lot of work going on there |
| 10:11.46 | EdePopede | rander2: do you have a good reason to stay with stretch? |
| 10:12.11 | EdePopede | and btw, 32bit? is it a 32bit platform? |
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| 10:12.30 | rander2 | I bought the netbook some years ago, it was branded "linux " , and it came with ubuntu 12,.04 preinstalled, but it have problems with video card gma3600 |
| 10:12.52 | rander2 | 32bit, but this cpu support 64bit too |
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| 10:13.18 | EdePopede | rander2: get buster live, see if it works. 64bit i'd say, if it supports it. |
| 10:13.39 | EdePopede | i had skype for some years, 32bit only (of course), just needed some 32bit libs |
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| 10:14.23 | rander2 | EdePopede, I use minimal installation to avoid install not userfull software |
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| 10:15.18 | EdePopede | rander2: just what i did on the Lenovo over the weekend. simply unselected "desktop" "print server" and even "base system" (/me chuckles). now i don't even have `man` there :D |
| 10:16.36 | EdePopede | still 228 packages installed |
| 10:17.02 | rander2 | EdePopede, you may install it after, creating a list of packages |
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| 10:18.14 | EdePopede | i think i'll make a 2nd such basic installation on a *small* partition and keep thins one as primary OS |
| 10:18.27 | EdePopede | but for the moment i'm looking around |
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| 10:19.22 | rander2 | basically this netbook was branded for linux, but have problems with unsupported video card, the pre installed ubuntu had a fat32 partition , I think with some stuff of bloob binary file. It use video without acceleration, using gma500 driver |
| 10:20.09 | EdePopede | at least i had it booting, no matter if i had secure boot on or off, it wasn't found. added an extra entry to the installer grub menu and finally was able to start it. just like the old days when you used a boot disk and a root disk :) |
| 10:20.33 | EdePopede | rander2: put a live image to a stick, see if it boots. |
| 10:22.04 | rander2 | asus made a dirty deeds commercializing it. Sure , I'll do a dd bootable image |
| 10:22.26 | EdePopede | i remember mobile machines being a problem in the past, i have some old notebook here, i only don't use it, the battery is pretty dead. |
| 10:22.45 | rander2 | netinst.iso I mean |
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| 10:24.53 | EdePopede | about graphics acceleration, hum. had to replace the amd card years ago after it broke, really wasn't fun with intel's onboard GPU. don't ask why, i got a nvidia then (well, it was cheap and never meant to be used forever) and only used the FOSS driver. |
| 10:25.25 | EdePopede | my test were the reallyslick screensavers, if they run ok with highend settings, i'm fine :) |
| 10:26.24 | EdePopede | had nividia's blob at some point in the past (i think for an older machine), gave me only 25 lines in the terminal. rly. no. go away! |
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| 10:28.19 | rander2 | it's strange and difficult replace video card in a laptop, not ever it's possible. Unfortunetly I have a unsopported video card, it was supported only by ubuntu 12.04 lts with a bloob binary. I was looking for anywhere, the driver don't exist. Exist the gma500 driver only |
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| 10:30.49 | EdePopede | proprietary design and closed source drivers. the ideal combination :) |
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| 10:32.14 | EdePopede | i remember using univbe.exe for some dos games, was better than the software coming from those building the graphic card. |
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| 10:33.31 | EdePopede | and of course they don't have any interest in supporting their old hardware. selling the new one makes money, not rebuilding drivers for the old ones just to keep up with all the new distros. |
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| 10:33.47 | ratrace | Display Doctor! Now that's a name I haven't heard in decades. |
| 10:34.51 | EdePopede | last update 15.12.1999? :D |
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| 10:35.31 | rander2 | not exactly, the card have license problem... |
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| 10:46.10 | rander2 | how may I view a 7zip archive without extract ? |
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| 10:47.35 | jm_ | rander2: does als work for those? |
| 10:47.58 | rander2 | als ? |
| 10:48.05 | jm_ | !find bin/als |
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| 10:48.31 | ratrace | 7z has the ability to "list" an archive |
| 10:48.45 | rander2 | not found als |
| 10:48.53 | rander2 | ok, let me see man page |
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| 10:49.33 | jm_ | heh dpkg failed to update files, anyway - als is in atool package |
| 10:51.38 | rander2 | als -l file # thx, I'm backup the system before install deb10 |
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| 10:57.58 | rander2 | how fast is a 64bit system compared to a 32bit one? |
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| 10:58.27 | ratrace | rander2: depends on the use case |
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| 10:58.49 | Haohmaru | <depends.exe> |
| 10:58.54 | rander2 | I mean in middle , maybe 20-30% ? |
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| 10:59.21 | ratrace | rander2: programs taking advantage of more registers in a 64-bit cpu will perform much faster. programs dealing with a lot of pointer arithmetic might be actully slower due to bigger pointer size |
| 10:59.52 | brokencycle | nvz: thank you1 |
| 11:00.04 | ratrace | rander2: biggest issue is more ram needed for 64-bit programs due to fatter pointers |
| 11:00.16 | Haohmaru | phattness |
| 11:00.25 | Haohmaru | thicc pointers |
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| 11:01.11 | rander2 | yes, I know 64bit need more ram.. |
| 11:01.38 | gregf | trying to get a preseed.cfg that works without any sort of network for a closed off environment. I put d-i apt-setup/use_mirror boolean false but it still stops to ask me what mirror to use during the install, then fails the install when I pick one because theres no network. Any ideas? |
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| 11:08.33 | rander2 | ratrace, the big problem for a low computer is the modem browser that eat a lot of memory, firefox chromium hungry too much |
| 11:09.05 | rander2 | thunderbird too, and it's only a e-mail and news client |
| 11:10.35 | Haohmaru | they ruined teh www |
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| 11:11.49 | rander2 | yes, too many interest in the www browser , and maybe the moder developer loosed the ability to write good code without include a lot of library |
| 11:12.33 | ratrace | wait until you discover electron and all the apps written in it :) that thing redefines the term "software bloat". |
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| 11:13.41 | rander2 | what is electron ? |
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| 11:14.03 | ratrace | https://electronjs.org/ |
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| 11:14.36 | ratrace | it contains a whole chromium browser core as the "engine" for the javascript based framework |
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| 11:16.10 | rander2 | ok, it is based on nodejs...all scripts, it consume a lot I image |
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| 11:18.20 | Haohmaru | ratrace yeah, i've heard it.. "writing desktop apps is too diffikult, such much OS.. can't we stay coazy liek in webdev" |
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| 11:20.35 | meisteris | desktop apps? Ony dinosaurs know how to do that in 2019 :D |
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| 11:21.21 | rander2 | web 2.0 and more they have become very complex |
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| 11:22.13 | Haohmaru | imma stay in teh dinosaur land then |
| 11:24.01 | ratrace | there's nothing wrong with applying webdev paradigms to "desktop" apps. The problem with electron is embedding whole friggin chromium browser core into each app itself |
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| 11:24.49 | ratrace | at leats mobile solutions like phonegap rely on central "browser" engine already present on devices so apps don't have to embed one |
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| 11:29.12 | EdePopede | ratrace: even where it replaces more than only one "app" it is bloated. once i tried Franz and just added a few of the integrated apps (not even having accounts for them) and every time it needed an impressive additional amount of memory. |
| 11:30.27 | ratrace | poorly written software, but inherently there's nothing wrong with "web" technology being used on desktops |
| 11:31.32 | ratrace | if anything, it's easier to define GUIs with a language like CSS, and the html5/responsive paradigm is really better in the world of myriad devices and screen resolutions |
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| 11:35.08 | rander2 | what device is SD card in debian ? |
| 11:35.50 | rander2 | ok, ever /dev(sdX |
| 11:35.54 | RoyK | rander2: /dev/sdX where X is 'something' |
| 11:35.56 | rander2 | ok, ever /dev/sdX |
| 11:36.03 | rander2 | yes, I seen , thx |
| 11:36.04 | RoyK | rander2: lsblk -d |
| 11:36.19 | rander2 | I'm gooing to write .iso with dd |
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| 11:37.29 | RoyK | rander2: should work - just use bs=1M to speed it up a bit and perhaps status=progress to see how it's going |
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| 11:41.48 | rander2 | ok, to view the progress writing |
| 11:43.57 | _Fremen_ | Hello everyone |
| 11:44.21 | _Fremen_ | I have a Debian KDE on a 1TB HDD with LVM (separate root, home, var, and tmp partitions) and I recently got a 256 GB SDD. I am thinking of using clonezilla to clone my current partitions by resizing them into SDD. Is this the best approach in my case? Should I extend LVM to cover SDD as well, assuming it is possible and recommended? What are my alternatives in this setup? |
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| 11:45.47 | jm_ | surely you won't be able to fit all partitions from 1T disk to a 256GB disk? |
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| 11:47.18 | _Fremen_ | jm_: yeah, as I said, I will resize them to fit, if it is possible |
| 11:47.34 | jm_ | _Fremen_: you mean reduce the size? don't think that'll work for you |
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| 11:47.52 | _Fremen_ | jm_: it is not possible in LVM configuration? |
| 11:48.18 | EdePopede | if they're mostly empty, who not. or you could just partition, copy the files over and reinstall the bootloader |
| 11:49.07 | jm_ | _Fremen_: hmm looks like I am wrong, I was going to bet FS tools won't support shrinking, but at least resize2fs mentions it |
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| 11:49.32 | Habbie | the limitation is that shrinking has to happen while the filesystem is not mounted |
| 11:49.45 | _Fremen_ | EdePopede: yep they are currently below 256 GB :) |
| 11:49.53 | jm_ | in any case, what I do when I buy new disks I create FS and copy on FS level, not on block level |
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| 11:52.26 | rander2 | the sd was full of old photoes..I'm backup |
| 11:52.27 | EdePopede | i for my part try to keep most of data separate from the OS, never sysupgraded, always made clean installs with new partition schemes, and not even use lvm for the data. some top level directories, symlinks to them if needed, and then it isn't relevant anymore on which partition they reside |
| 11:53.35 | EdePopede | and should i have to free some space on one of the partitions and i have a new disk available i move the whole directory onto it and watch a film while the pc does its work :) |
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| 11:55.22 | rander2 | it's a old sd...about 6Mbyte/s |
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| 11:55.54 | ratrace | rander2: btw, drives are not always sdX . nvme ones for example, or bios/fakeraid, are NOT. |
| 11:56.34 | ratrace | sd is just for SATA/SCSI interface. |
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| 11:57.51 | rander2 | I dont know exactly, on another laptop sd isn't /dev/sdX , but I dont remenber exactly |
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| 12:03.14 | rander2 | dd if=debian-10.2.0-amd64-netinst.iso bs=1M status=progress of=/dev/sdb # about 10 Mbyte/sec |
| 12:04.56 | rander2 | ok, try to reboot , thx to all |
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| 12:49.11 | rander2 | hello |
| 12:49.22 | rander2 | system re-installed |
| 12:49.24 | rander2 | cool |
| 12:49.30 | rander2 | I'm from irssi |
| 12:49.34 | rander2 | :D |
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| 12:52.15 | moistmoskito | nice |
| 12:52.28 | moistmoskito | more of a weechat person myself |
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| 12:52.57 | rander2 | hello all |
| 12:53.44 | moistmoskito | how goes rander2 |
| 12:53.51 | rander2 | fine |
| 12:54.08 | rander2 | I'm installing xfce4 |
| 12:54.28 | moistmoskito | neat |
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| 12:55.03 | rander2 | debian 10 use the same driver, gma500 instead gma3600, but I knew was unsupported |
| 12:55.44 | rander2 | another stupid thing was to change interface's names |
| 12:55.51 | moistmoskito | whats that for wifi? |
| 12:56.20 | rander2 | I'm connect with android usb tethering now |
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| 12:57.14 | rander2 | wifi gone in installation |
| 12:57.38 | moistmoskito | did you install the nonfree firmware? |
| 12:58.02 | rander2 | now I could configure from cli, but I'm so expert, so I'm using usb tethering |
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| 12:59.10 | rander2 | I wait to start x-window to see better, however wifi gone before during installation |
| 13:00.29 | rander2 | ok, I go to start gui |
| 13:00.39 | moistmoskito | enjoy |
| 13:00.41 | moistmoskito | ? |
| 13:00.44 | moistmoskito | mt |
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| 13:02.46 | Antioch | Hello. How can I force bash to source the .bashrc in my home directory on login? It doesn't seem to be doing this automatically. |
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| 13:04.15 | moistmoskito | can source it in bash.profile? |
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| 13:06.53 | rander2 | # .profile in home directory ? |
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| 13:10.39 | Antioch | no |
| 13:11.07 | moistmoskito | hmm just was a thought |
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| 13:11.30 | Antioch | I mean, no the home directory is empty. I made a .bashrc there manually |
| 13:11.40 | rander2 | the system is more fast, falkon installed |
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| 13:12.01 | moistmoskito | Antioch: it didnt create a .bashrc? |
| 13:12.08 | rander2 | no swap with gui, hexchat and falkon, cool |
| 13:12.12 | Antioch | no |
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| 13:12.54 | moistmoskito | nice rander2 |
| 13:13.15 | rander2 | now I'm trying falkon |
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| 13:21.10 | rander2 | !wpa_supplicant |
| 13:21.10 | dpkg | Wi-Fi Protected Access (WPA) is a wireless encryption standard. A WPA supplicant for Debian systems is in the wpasupplicant package, read /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.Debian.gz to configure (especially "Troubleshooting" for association to hidden SSIDs). Since Debian 7 "Wheezy", it is possible to install Debian over a WPA-protected network. https://wiki.debian.org/WPA https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#wpasupplicant |
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| 13:26.33 | rander2 | I don't found wifi icon on xfce4 |
| 13:27.06 | moistmoskito | did you install the firmware? |
| 13:27.26 | moistmoskito | and update /etc/apt/sources.list to use nonfree? |
| 13:28.01 | rander2 | I don't know what firmware. No source.list is the default |
| 13:28.25 | moistmoskito | !wiki wifi |
| 13:28.51 | moistmoskito | https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi |
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| 13:31.03 | rander2 | interface exist, its name is wlp2s0 |
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| 13:33.06 | rander2 | Qualcomm Atheros AR9485 Wireless Network Adapter |
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| 13:37.09 | rander2 | deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports main contrib non-free |
| 13:37.57 | dvs | That's it? That's only the backports, not the main repo. |
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| 13:41.15 | rander2 | yes, the main are present by default |
| 13:42.17 | dvs | But that is for the buster-backports repo, not the buster repo. |
| 13:43.36 | rander2 | http://paste.debian.net/1119048/ |
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| 13:46.09 | dvs | rander2, It would be a good idea to add "contrib non-free" to the end of lines 11, 12,15, 16, 19, and 20 |
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| 13:49.05 | rander2 | done, apt update && apt upgrade # it's the same , no new packets |
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| 13:50.26 | dvs | rander2, apt install firmware-atheros |
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| 13:51.47 | rander2 | dvs, ok installed |
| 13:51.58 | dvs | now reboot |
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| 13:54.07 | rander2 | no wifi icon in xfce |
| 13:55.52 | dvs | I haven't worked with xfce so I'm not sure what packages are necessary for xfce. |
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| 13:59.27 | MaxFrames | hi |
| 13:59.58 | MaxFrames | any idea why isc-dhcp-server failed, based on these informations? http://paste.debian.net/1119051/ |
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| 14:00.56 | jelly | MaxFrames: no. Look at dhcpd logs in /var/log/daemon.log |
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| 14:05.47 | MaxFrames | I've redirected dhcpd logs to /var/log/dhcpd.log, and reading that file reveals no errors |
| 14:05.56 | MaxFrames | it actually seems to be running... |
| 14:07.13 | MaxFrames | http://paste.debian.net/1119054/ => after that, just a series of normal DHCPDISCOVERY entries from various hosts |
| 14:07.19 | jelly | and by "redirected" you mean what precisely? |
| 14:08.58 | MaxFrames | one line in /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf with "log-facility local7;" and one line in /etc/rsyslog.conf saying "local7.* /var/log/dhcpd.log" |
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| 14:09.10 | MaxFrames | then I rebooted |
| 14:09.34 | MaxFrames | the /var/log/dhcpd.log is being populated, so I guess the redirection is working |
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| 14:19.02 | moistmoskito | rander2: nm-applett installed n running? |
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| 14:20.36 | MaxFrames | http://paste.debian.net/1119056/ |
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| 14:22.03 | Wulf | hello |
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| 14:22.23 | MaxFrames | I don't understand the first thing of this. why is it failing? no clue anywhere |
| 14:23.38 | Wulf | how do I select my keyboard variant (de-latin1-nodeadkeys) in buster? can't see the option during pxe install |
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| 14:25.56 | TotallyNotKim | MaxFrames: it's refusing to start because of a existing pid / it's already running / unclean exit |
| 14:26.26 | TotallyNotKim | double check that there is no active process, get rid of /var/run/dhcpd.pid afterwards |
| 14:26.31 | rander2 | maybe restart the service |
| 14:26.42 | TotallyNotKim | better so, check the content of /var/run/dhcpd.pid and explicitly look for that one |
| 14:26.46 | TotallyNotKim | rander2: or that |
| 14:26.53 | TotallyNotKim | should take care of it heh |
| 14:27.05 | MaxFrames | indeed, a pid file is still there after I've stopped the service. I'll rm it |
| 14:27.11 | TotallyNotKim | check the pid |
| 14:27.32 | MaxFrames | still failing to start |
| 14:27.34 | rander2 | moistmoskito, failed |
| 14:27.40 | TotallyNotKim | maybe it's stuck for some reason |
| 14:27.44 | hummingbee | ooh a dhcp server |
| 14:27.53 | TotallyNotKim | even says "Found left-over process 449 (dhcpd) in control group while starting" |
| 14:28.09 | TotallyNotKim | check whats up with the process |
| 14:28.16 | hummingbee | that is one which just died 30 seconds earlier |
| 14:28.17 | colo-work | you probably have the wrong KillMode in the service unit |
| 14:28.35 | moistmoskito | rander2: nm-applett failed? |
| 14:28.42 | rander2 | yes |
| 14:29.11 | rander2 | libnotify-WARNING **: 15:27:16.274: Failed to connect to proxy |
| 14:29.16 | moistmoskito | systemctl status NetworkManager.service |
| 14:29.43 | moistmoskito | oh |
| 14:30.01 | n_1-c_k | Wulf, try 'dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration' |
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| 14:30.48 | rander2 | moistmoskito, active, started |
| 14:32.02 | moistmoskito | search the error on web n add debian keyword |
| 14:32.16 | Wulf | n_1-c_k: thanks, will try |
| 14:32.20 | moistmoskito | might be a package u missn |
| 14:32.23 | MaxFrames | solved. I had to explicitly list eth0 in /etc/default/isc-dhcp-server. for some reason, on the old installation I am trying to reproduce, this parameter was not set and everything was perfectly fine |
| 14:33.16 | rander2 | http://paste.debian.net/1119061/ |
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| 14:49.38 | rander2 | ok, all right now. I rstart the netbook |
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| 15:17.01 | HeXiLeD | old system here that i should ssh'ed in. error with dependencies https://bpaste.net/show/H3XK2 (buster) |
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| 15:29.05 | MaxFrames | I give up. It's impossible. Everything is super complicated. I am just trying to make this debian buster vm accessible via vnc. I just get a grey screen and an X cursor. It shouldn't be mount Everest. |
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| 15:29.28 | greycat | !xdmcp |
| 15:29.29 | dpkg | The X Display Manager Control Protocol (XDMCP) provides a uniform mechanism for an autonomous display (e.g. X terminal) to request login service from a remote host. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_display_manager_(program_type)#X_Display_Manager_Control_Protocol |
| 15:30.08 | greycat | but when you get into VNC or RDP or whatever crazy crap Apple/Microsoft come up with this month, I'm not gonna be much help |
| 15:30.48 | MaxFrames | I don't want to use VNC at all costs, but what other way is there these days to access the GUI on a Debian machine remotely? |
| 15:31.41 | greycat | see, that's where the concepts break down for me. "access the GUI" is just foreign babble. |
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| 15:32.06 | MaxFrames | log on to a Gnome deskop session |
| 15:32.13 | MaxFrames | desktop |
| 15:32.29 | notconnected | whats the proper and safest way to raid1 my nas os without doing a fresh install? |
| 15:32.34 | greycat | Tell the remote's Display Manager to turn on XDMCP, and then magic voodoo, and voila. |
| 15:33.07 | greycat | I can't even imagine how bad GNOME will be over a wide area network, but it's your choice. |
| 15:33.16 | MaxFrames | magic voodoo? |
| 15:33.28 | whislock | notconnected: What is your NAS OS? |
| 15:33.55 | notconnected | its omv but its debian based |
| 15:34.15 | notconnected | currently running on a cheapass ssd |
| 15:34.43 | notconnected | my data is separated from the main os, of course |
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| 15:35.25 | MaxFrames | what about install x2go on debian and then x2go client on whatever remote box? |
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| 15:35.37 | whislock | !based on debian |
| 15:35.37 | dpkg | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
| 15:35.39 | MaxFrames | I used to be able to use this against lubuntu |
| 15:35.53 | notconnected | max, was that for me |
| 15:36.06 | whislock | notconnected: The dpkg output was. |
| 15:36.21 | notconnected | whislock, its omv on top of debian |
| 15:36.26 | notconnected | is what i meant |
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| 15:37.11 | MaxFrames | no notconnected |
| 15:37.38 | notconnected | what if i just clone the ssd with the same ssd and just raid via hw raid |
| 15:37.48 | notconnected | not sure if it works like that |
| 15:37.53 | whislock | notconnected: I know what OMV is. It is a Debian derivative and thus not supported. |
| 15:39.31 | notconnected | you know well its not debian specific |
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| 15:40.11 | notconnected | this is general linux, but im on mobile and cant register nick to join ##linux |
| 15:40.20 | jelly | notconnected: volunteers in this channel decided to support Debian users specifically, not any derivative |
| 15:40.39 | jelly | there are social and technical reasons for that. |
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| 15:41.29 | notconnected | i could have lied and said i was running debian, wouldnt make a difference lol |
| 15:41.38 | whislock | notconnected: And then you'd be a shitty person. |
| 15:41.40 | jelly | one of the technical reasons is: something that's an optimal solution for debian might be suboptimal or bad for a derivative |
| 15:42.20 | notconnected | its not even debian specific, this is a general linux question lol |
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| 15:42.33 | jelly | then ask a general channel. |
| 15:43.47 | jelly | going from raw disk to raid1 will have a bit of distro-specific issues, not much but not zero either (placement of mdadm.conf, reducing partitions, fixing fstab and initramfs may differ) |
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| 15:45.03 | jelly | notconnected: if you're dealing with raid, you could ask in #linux-raid, but be prepared to do your homework (read md docs) |
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| 15:49.38 | notconnected | im using btrfs for my data but ext4 for os |
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| 15:50.47 | notconnected | and used btrfs native raid and not mdadm |
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| 15:57.56 | jelly | notconnected: what you use for data is probably not relevant for what you want to do with the OS, and may be different things. #linux-raid people know about mdadm and hw raid stuff, dunno how much they know about btrfs. |
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| 15:59.22 | notconnected | thabks |
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| 16:09.11 | Wulf | n_1-c_k: works in console, but not in gnome |
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| 16:18.23 | Wulf | ah, finslly found the right menu in gnome |
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| 16:33.07 | Kremator | folks, im about to install debian testing on my laptop, i would like contributing to testing but idk how to write bug reports (nor where i should) sooooo.... does deb testing comes with an already telemetry-like crash reporter or something that does automatizes the bug reporting? |
| 16:33.18 | greycat | !bts |
| 16:33.18 | dpkg | Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, http://bugs.debian.org/ or to go directly to the bug page for a particular package/bug, try http://bugs.debian.org/packagename or http://bugs.debian.org/bugnumber . aptitude install reportbug, and check out <querybts> too. Users of unstable and testing are required to check the BTS. See also <apt-listbugs>, <reportbug>. http://wiki.debian.org/HowtoUseBTS |
| 16:33.32 | somiaj | !reportbug |
| 16:33.33 | dpkg | reportbug is used to submit bugs to the Debian <BTS>. Install reportbug, then run reportbug. See http://www.debian.org/Bugs/ http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s04#problem-report for some general information about using reportbug and/or for <debian-installer> bug reporting. Also ask me about <report-bugs>. http://wiki.debian.org/reportbug http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting, or <reportbug MTA> |
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| 16:33.44 | somiaj | Kremator: also debian testing questions should be asked in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net |
| 16:33.50 | Kremator | ty greycat |
| 16:33.58 | greycat | The easiest way is to set up outgoing email on the actual Debian system, so that you can run reportbug and have it send the email for you. |
| 16:34.21 | greycat | If that's not viable, you will have to generate the bug report and send it manually. |
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| 16:34.43 | petn-randall | reportbug by default just uses a smtp client and talks to the Debian mail servers directly. You don't need a local MTA anymore. |
| 16:35.11 | greycat | watches email slowly continue to die |
| 16:35.51 | Kremator | greycat, email is not dying, but rather being outsourced |
| 16:36.06 | whislock | email NEEDS to die. |
| 16:36.20 | somiaj | or at least be replaced with a more modern system. |
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| 16:36.46 | Kremator | exactly why does it *needs* to die |
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| 16:37.06 | Kremator | if anything what needs to die is a lot of enterprise overhead that makes it useless/annoying |
| 16:37.22 | whislock | It's a relic of an age where all participants were trusted to at least some extent. |
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| 16:37.35 | greycat | The primary problems with email are that anyone in the entire world can send you anything at all, and the cost is borne by the receiver, not by the sender. It's like it was custom made for spammers. |
| 16:37.37 | whislock | The overwhelming majority of email these days is spam or malware. |
| 16:38.05 | Kremator | whislock, well, i would agree with you back in 2010 |
| 16:38.07 | whislock | Email was never designed with any kind of security or anti-abuse measures, and what exists now is a huge amount of cruft that can't do anything to mitigate the design issues internally. |
| 16:38.19 | Kremator | but these days i rarely if ever see an spam email, fortunatelly modern spam filters are pretty good |
| 16:38.30 | whislock | Kremator: The plural of anecdote is not data. |
| 16:40.17 | jelly | Kremator: overwhelming majority of mail messages in transit and delivery attempts ARE spam, you just have filters to work around it that work this week |
| 16:40.22 | whislock | See also phishing/whaling, business email compromise, how all of this dovetails into how DNS security also sucks. |
| 16:41.52 | whislock | It's 2019 and we're STILL trying to get businesses large and small to take basic steps to provide basic assurance that their email actually came from them. |
| 16:42.12 | whislock | Email, as a system, as a design, sucks ass in the modern day, and it needs to go the way of the dinosaur. |
| 16:42.45 | avu | and many big businesses use aweful hacks to send "secure" mails because none of the encryption/auth schemes ever really worked out on a global scale |
| 16:43.19 | dvs | whislock, what? like DKIM? |
| 16:43.28 | jelly | Kremator: questions about daily usage of testing are best asked where users of testing and unstable chat, |
| 16:43.32 | jelly | !debian-next |
| 16:43.33 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 16:43.49 | Kremator | jelly, i was already pointed in that direction |
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| 16:44.10 | whislock | dvs: DKIM, DMARC, SPF, et al. |
| 16:45.33 | Kremator | folks, how good does works the mobile tethering functionality these days comapred to for example xubuntu? |
| 16:46.30 | Kremator | back in deb 8 i rmember having to config some extra package for that |
| 16:46.36 | Kremator | while in xubuntu it just works |
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| 16:47.17 | jelly | Kremator: I can only say connecting via wifi to an Android phone with hotspot enabled, works. |
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| 16:47.40 | somiaj | Kremator: Might depend on if you want to use usb or a wifi hotspot, wifi hotspot will be the easiest, but here is this https://wiki.debian.org/Android_Tethering |
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| 16:50.05 | Kremator | jelly, somiaj, thanks, yeah i want to use it trough usb, since using mobile hotspot trough wifi its mroe power demanding for both devices |
| 16:51.41 | jelly | have you measured whether it was actually important? Using the phone screen for 10 minutes will probably eat an hour or two of wifi AP use. |
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| 16:52.34 | Kremator | jelly, yup, im gonna be in a power critical scenarios where every amper is important |
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| 17:07.21 | hlohne | Hello, I'm having trouble connecting to CheckPoint VPN (debian bullseye). It used to work under debian stretch, using snx build 800007075. Some colleagues accomplished to connect via ike, ike-qtgui (shrew soft vpn access manager). However, these packages are deprecated in debian 10. |
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| 17:08.33 | hlohne | Does anyone know what I should use to connect to Checkpoint VPN in debian buster/bullseye, or please help me where to ask elsewhere? I've spent all day googling without much success |
| 17:08.44 | rany | What is Checkpoint VPN? |
| 17:08.48 | *** join/#debian zerocool (~muhGNUdoh@50-39-121-90.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net) |
| 17:08.55 | rany | Is it OpenVPN compatible? |
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| 17:09.21 | hlohne | Unfortunaly, I don't believe it is. |
| 17:09.43 | rany | :( ... i guess its proprietary non-free software |
| 17:09.50 | rany | and according to wikipedia is patented |
| 17:10.02 | rany | it seems like junk, sorry... guess you have no choice :( |
| 17:10.08 | jelly | hlohne: see if either openconnect or vpnc support it |
| 17:10.50 | rany | according to wikipedia it supports RHEL |
| 17:10.54 | rany | so there is hope |
| 17:12.10 | rany | Wait.... does Checkpoint VPN support ipssec vpn? |
| 17:12.14 | rany | hlohne, ^ |
| 17:12.25 | hlohne | Let me check |
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| 17:13.24 | hlohne | According to their website, it supports IPsec VPN for windows, macos, ios and android, but not linux |
| 17:13.28 | rany | i think it does because ike seems to only support IPsec |
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| 17:13.48 | rany | hlohne, do you still have the configs for ike? |
| 17:14.06 | rany | maybe you can use them to connect via IPSEC using another client |
| 17:14.50 | rany | ipsec seems to be the way you were connecting to your client over on ike-qtgui |
| 17:15.09 | rany | https://packages.debian.org/jessie/net/ike-qtgui |
| 17:15.16 | hlohne | No, at my previous work, we used openvpn. I started a new job today, and I can't connect to the VPN. The other guys at the office are using ike-qtgui and ubuntu 18.04 |
| 17:15.42 | rany | but ike according to apt description seems to only support ipsec |
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| 17:16.43 | rany | so perhaps you can get that ipsec config you were using and make it work on strongswan |
| 17:17.02 | jelly | openconnect does not support it. And anything ipsec is a huge PITA |
| 17:17.28 | jelly | ,v ike-qtgui |
| 17:17.29 | judd | Package: ike-qtgui on amd64 -- jessie: 2.2.1+dfsg-3; stretch: 2.2.1+dfsg-6 |
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| 17:17.44 | rany | ike-qtgui is an ipsec client gui thing |
| 17:17.49 | jelly | ouch, I wonder if it's merely not ported to Qt5 |
| 17:18.09 | jelly | rany: and this is an ipsec only firewall it seems |
| 17:18.26 | hlohne | According to my findings, the only way to achive Checkpoint VPN to connect is either via ike-qtgui or firefox48 + java-applet with cli snx, or with cli snx alone. However, the cli snx alone used to work in previous kernels. |
| 17:18.30 | jelly | er, vpn server |
| 17:18.40 | rany | jelly, but he used ike-qtgui before and had success |
| 17:18.53 | rany | he just no longer has ike because upgrading to new release |
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| 17:19.42 | jelly | hlohne: what about the cli authenticator thingy? https://github.com/schlatterbeck/snxvpn |
| 17:20.36 | rany | that seems like a promising find, jelly :) |
| 17:20.53 | jelly | last touched 2 years ago |
| 17:21.20 | hlohne | I read about it. I think i'll try it out next. However, I feel the snx cli is close. However, in the debug-logs, I get an error "Missing environment variable CPDIR". If I export one, I get the error: "Couldn't open registry file $CPDIR/registry/HKLM_registry.data" |
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| 17:21.50 | rany | jelly, i don;t think this is what he is looking for |
| 17:22.17 | rany | jelly, this is for ssl but considering ike-qtgui was working for him, then he is trying to connect to ipsec server |
| 17:22.43 | rany | i think they need something like strongswan-nm |
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| 17:24.54 | jelly | hlohne: which debian is this, buster or bullseye thne? |
| 17:25.03 | hlohne | bullseye |
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| 17:25.10 | SlowJimmy | Sorry for the dumb question, i am runnin a debian/hurd in my virt-manager/qemu and i have a question regarding changing the keyboard to my own language from english? i go to /etc/locale.gen and type "en_UK.UTF-8 UTF-8"? |
| 17:25.36 | jelly | SlowJimmy: locale settings and console settings are almost independent. |
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| 17:25.44 | jelly | !keymap |
| 17:25.44 | dpkg | Run "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" to change both your default console and X keymap; the setxkbmap utility can be used to adjust keymap settings during X operation. For setting up X keymaps, see xkeycaps, xev and ask me about <multimedia keys>. |
| 17:26.13 | jelly | SlowJimmy: see if that is implemented in hurd. It might not work. |
| 17:27.17 | hlohne | I'll try strongswan-nm! Thanks! |
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| 17:34.11 | hlohne | I'm not sure how to configure strongswan-nm. And it is not working: "NetworkManager[683]: <error> [1575307864.2037] vpn-connection[0x55e30c2e26f0,71d344d8-4d34-47b9-b557-03a29ad1c648,"VPN 1",0]: final secrets request failed to provide sufficient secrets" |
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| 17:37.28 | rany | hlohne, you have to provide the server's certificate |
| 17:38.09 | rany | i think you are getting this error because you need to have servercertficate and if you are not using PSK a private key |
| 17:38.09 | whislock | The server provides the server's certificate. |
| 17:38.28 | tharkun | Good $DAY. This is a redundant question in itself. How smooth is the ride on testing as of today? Smooth enough to keep it just running with updates or is it breaking stuff withoug manners? |
| 17:38.34 | rany | whislock, IIRC you need to provide the certificate for verification.... |
| 17:38.41 | whislock | rany: No. That's what a CA is for. |
| 17:39.03 | rany | whislock, i'm not sure but i think in IPSEC they are self-signed |
| 17:39.11 | whislock | rany: You think incorrectly. |
| 17:39.18 | tharkun | Asymetric cryptography, you need the public certificate to encrypt and the private key to decrypt. |
| 17:39.28 | whislock | tharkun: Not very relevant to IPsec. |
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| 17:40.25 | whislock | rany: Technically, yes, you can use a self-signed certificate. The client will never be able to validate it. |
| 17:40.56 | rany | whislock, yes it can... thats what OpenVPN does :P |
| 17:41.09 | whislock | rany: OpenVPN != IPsec. |
| 17:41.25 | whislock | rany: And for certificate auth, you require a CA. |
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| 17:42.23 | rany | whislock, technically on IPSEC encryption is optional |
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| 17:42.55 | whislock | rany: Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, and authentication of the endpoints must still take place. That's either PSK or EAP, and if you're using EAP, you have to have a validatable certificate. |
| 17:43.38 | whislock | No encryption would either be ESP with a NULL cipher, or AH, both of which authenticate the endpoints of the tunnel. |
| 17:43.51 | oiaohm | Yep ipsec for ham random usage is unencrypted because legally they cannot encrypted so for them its a signed message system prevent modification in the middle. |
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| 17:44.08 | whislock | Which would be AH. |
| 17:44.15 | oiaohm | and if you screw up you ipsec config you can get the ham settings. |
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| 17:44.21 | _Fremen_ | hello everyone |
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| 17:45.19 | _Fremen_ | is it possible to make a debian multiboot usb with YUMI or other tools? |
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| 17:47.39 | SlowJimmy | Jelly keymap did come up fine, I am not sure if it worked rebooting to check, thanks so much° |
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| 17:48.48 | hummingbee | it's quite possible _Fremen_, though not much supported here, personally i found it more reliable to just learn about syslinux |
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| 17:49.27 | jelly | and debian images are a bit picky |
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| 17:50.14 | greycat | the #debian-boot channel on OFTC might have more people who specialize in this stuff |
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| 17:54.42 | monsterco | Why does "fdisk -l" freeze? This is an SSD and Proxmox fresh install (debian): https://pastebin.com/YKfeKiw8 |
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| 17:55.22 | whislock | !proxmox |
| 17:55.22 | dpkg | Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial ##proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Get_support |
| 17:55.32 | monsterco | this is a core linux issue |
| 17:55.34 | jelly | monsterco: that's not a Debian kernel, which OS is this? |
| 17:55.37 | monsterco | and SSD problem maybe |
| 17:55.39 | whislock | Proxmox. |
| 17:56.02 | jelly | monsterco: this isn't a core linux channel, we choose to provide support to users of Debian |
| 17:56.08 | monsterco | root@pve:~# cat /etc/debian_version |
| 17:56.12 | EdePopede | did something change from 9 to 10 regarding apt? here it keeps the packages in /var/cache/apt, on that new buster install it is empty. maybe i also changed something here, but who knows... |
| 17:56.40 | jelly | monsterco: if you can reproduce the same issue on actual Debian, before installing a custom kernel and who knows what else, you can ask here |
| 17:56.49 | monsterco | so no ideas? |
| 17:56.52 | greycat | EdePopede: you switched from apt-get to apt. |
| 17:57.17 | EdePopede | now that you say it... i really don't remember for sure what command i used yesterday Oo |
| 17:57.21 | whislock | monsterco: Only the correct idea that Proxmox isn't supported here. |
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| 17:58.01 | greycat | dpkg apt vs. apt-get |
| 17:58.01 | dpkg | apt is promoted over apt-get for interactive use. It uses fancy colors and has output format differences. It removes the .deb files that it downloads during an install or upgrade. It installs new packages during upgrades. apt-get has a stable command-line interface and is promoted for scripting. |
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| 17:58.40 | choki | hi |
| 17:58.43 | choki | help! |
| 17:58.51 | jelly | monsterco: until you can reproduce the issue on Debian, better ask ##proxmox or maybe #linux (and look at your dmesg for driver or hw issues) |
| 17:59.09 | monsterco | https://pastebin.com/Vw3pZrhc |
| 17:59.17 | EdePopede | greycat: just been able to boot it yesterday night. not did too much since then. history shows apt install immediately followed by apt-get install. and i just rebooted, so no scrollback :/ |
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| 17:59.38 | whislock | monsterco: You aren't running Debian. Please stop cluttering this channel with irrelevant stuff. |
| 17:59.58 | greycat | "apt" removes the current session's .deb files after an install or upgrade or full-upgrade. "apt-get" does not. |
| 18:00.27 | jelly | whislock: no need to repeat that, if they persist an op will just quiet them. |
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| 18:02.18 | tharkun | There used to be a url where bugs and certain bumpiness of testing could be visualized. I seem to have forgotten it. Any ideas? |
| 18:03.05 | jelly | !rc bugs |
| 18:03.06 | jelly | ? |
| 18:03.07 | dpkg | Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release of Debian. See the graph at http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ or the lists at http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/other/all.html http://udd.debian.org/bugs.cgi?release=stretch&patch=ign&pending=ign&merged=ign&done=ign&rc=1 . See also <rc-alert>. |
| 18:03.22 | tharkun | jelly: As allways a gentleman. Thanks |
| 18:03.58 | jelly | that's a bit of stretch, but thanks |
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| 18:09.18 | _Fremen_ | jelly, greycat : thank you very much, I will check it out :) |
| 18:09.49 | EdePopede | greycat: still wondering. /car/log/apt/history.log lists only apt-get, never apt. only did that one manual install last night, and even the packages from the intitial install are listet with an apt-get command line. only they have a lot of options including --no-remove, while my install has none |
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| 18:10.28 | greycat | well, good luck finding a single document that tells you all of the options on all of the apt* commands |
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| 18:12.47 | EdePopede | or even all the package related commands |
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| 18:13.29 | EdePopede | only "apt instead of apt-get" doesn't seem to be *that* clear |
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| 18:14.30 | EdePopede | it removes packages per default, yes. but doesn't seem to be the standard on Buster (apt-get was still used) and apt-get removed the archives after my only install later. |
| 18:14.42 | hlohne | Ok, I got the Checkpoint VPN working by installing the ike and ike-qtgui packages from stretch repository. Not very satisfying, but at least it works. Thanks for your help! :-) |
| 18:15.31 | greycat | there is no such thing as "apt-get was still used" or "the standard on ____". they are command-line tools. you choose one by typing its name. |
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| 18:16.39 | oiaohm | EdePopede: apt-get still have options that are not displayed in the apt command. |
| 18:16.57 | greycat | ALL of them have a shitload of options that are not documented. |
| 18:17.25 | greycat | There's an option to have apt keep the .deb files, and to have apt-get not keep them. Is it documented? No. |
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| 18:18.21 | greycat | Not in man pages, anyway. |
| 18:18.30 | hlohne | Btw, I exported the working config from shrew vpn. It made a vpn file. Which more recent vpn client may I try to load it with? |
| 18:19.25 | EdePopede | i looked into my whole /root here (stretch), no option for any of those. apt-get keeps the archives, apt removes them (learned this after i upgraded some package). on the totally fresh buster apt-get removed the package. just like apt did it here. |
| 18:19.29 | oiaohm | greycat: apt does not have all the repair commands apt-get has. And never will. apt is made as your normal end user command. |
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| 18:20.42 | EdePopede | don't remember why, but when i left aptitude behind me after squeeze i think, i went to apt-* instead of apt. maybe it *was* because of the 'not stable output', 'never will have it all' thing. |
| 18:20.53 | greycat | "apt" did not exist in squeeze |
| 18:20.57 | EdePopede | and neither cal nor gcal are on DVD1? |
| 18:21.04 | EdePopede | "after" |
| 18:21.14 | greycat | wooledg:~$ dpkg -S /usr/bin/cal |
| 18:21.14 | greycat | bsdmainutils: /usr/bin/cal |
| 18:21.22 | EdePopede | oh. right. |
| 18:21.35 | whislock | EdePopede: apt not having stable output doesn't matter. It's only intended to be used interactively. |
| 18:21.38 | tharkun | Two of the packages I need to run on testing so far report critical bugs, containerd and kubernetes. What would be the sensible way to proceed? Look for a solution and submit a patch to the maintainer? And if so where/how the patch can be tested with other hw arquitectures? |
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| 18:23.30 | greycat | apt.conf(5) says /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/configure-index.gz has "all possible options", but I'm skeptical |
| 18:23.43 | EdePopede | whislock: i don't care. i don't want to mess around with 2 different programs doing partly the same yet in contradictory ways. and if apt isn't suited for scripting and not complete, it is the natural decision that it is the one i drop |
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| 18:24.17 | whislock | EdePopede: They don't do things in contradictory ways. apt is meant to be used interactively, and apt-* are for automation. |
| 18:24.38 | whislock | EdePopede: I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp. |
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| 18:25.17 | greycat | http://paste.wooledge.org/516 |
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| 18:25.34 | greycat | There's one option that isn't i the man pages. |
| 18:26.01 | jelly | EdePopede: I use apt-get and apt and aptitude on the same system, should I be worried |
| 18:26.43 | greycat | jelly: you should definitely be worried if you ever edit the same file with both vim and emacs. It might explode!! |
| 18:27.01 | EdePopede | so, trying it now with apt-get. just to be sure. |
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| 18:27.43 | jelly | whislock: eh... it's not like apt-get and apt-cache are designed or dedicated for automation, it's just that they've been the (only, predictable) tools for so long, unrelated software started _using_ them for automation so now we're stuck with that |
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| 18:28.13 | whislock | jelly: Sure. I think the intent, now, is that they be used for things that require a stable output format. |
| 18:28.28 | greycat | less about the output format, more about the command-line arguments |
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| 18:35.19 | EdePopede | so. apt-get definitely removes the packages in its default setting. |
| 18:37.01 | alphazulu | am a kde user. any idea why fonts in firefox and thunderbird would look kind of grainy? |
| 18:37.16 | alphazulu | some obscure gconf setting? |
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| 18:41.42 | alphazulu | ah it looks like i was using a weird font style in userChrome.css |
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| 18:44.10 | EdePopede | also can't find anything in /etc/apt which would explain the changed behaviour |
| 18:44.34 | greycat | *what* changed behavior |
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| 18:45.48 | EdePopede | <EdePopede> so. apt-get definitely removes the packages in its default setting. |
| 18:46.06 | EdePopede | doesn't happen here on err... debian 9 |
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| 18:47.39 | EdePopede | nearly 2GB of packages over the years. on the other one with the fresh buster the cache directory still is empty |
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| 18:48.51 | greycat | apt-get KEEPS the .deb files by default. Always has. |
| 18:48.58 | greycat | if you're seeing something different, it's unique to your setup. |
| 18:49.45 | EdePopede | fresh setup, 1 install last night, 1 install now. no changes at all. because that's why i keep it clean and clear for the moment. |
| 18:50.26 | tharkun | The *"unofficial"* netinst image is unofficial as in sid "If you break it you get to keep the pieces" or is it a more license centric *"unofficial"* |
| 18:50.51 | valdyn | tharkun: what license? |
| 18:51.05 | greycat | The non-free-firmware netinst is unofficial as in will-never-be-linked-on-the-main-web-page. |
| 18:51.08 | EdePopede | or does it behave differently when installing from disc? |
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| 18:51.30 | greycat | EdePopede: whatever you're doing, it's just YOU. Nobody else knows how to reproduce your results. |
| 18:51.32 | EdePopede | since usually it doesn't really make sense to keep the .deb's in the cache |
| 18:51.47 | tharkun | greycat: Thanks, just what I needed to read. |
| 18:52.01 | EdePopede | what you're saying is that debian doesn't behave reproducible |
| 18:52.14 | EdePopede | sometimes it does, sometimes it does not |
| 18:52.32 | tharkun | EdePopede: apt-get clean will get rid of all those files if you need the space. Set up your goals to achieve and look into the steps you need to take to achieve it. |
| 18:52.32 | valdyn | EdePopede: maybe apt behaves different than apt-get |
| 18:52.49 | whislock | valdyn: Covered extensively. |
| 18:52.52 | tharkun | s/it/them/ |
| 18:53.00 | EdePopede | valdyn: both times apt-get. here 9, there 10. here keeps, there removes. |
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| 18:54.34 | EdePopede | so if it would decide depending on the available space it would rather remove them here. the other system can use a nearly empty disc |
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| 18:55.55 | ZaZaGX | What is my IP address? |
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| 18:56.08 | whislock | ZaZaGX: icanhazip.com |
| 18:57.01 | tharkun | ZaZaGX: curl ifconfig.me |
| 18:57.09 | greycat | ZaZaGX: 127.0.0.1 |
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| 18:57.23 | tharkun | That is mine. ;P |
| 18:57.41 | ZaZaGX | it only shows my VPN IP address |
| 18:58.15 | greycat | ZaZaGX: you want your *local* interface addresses? "ip addr" |
| 18:59.04 | ZaZaGX | i'm not sure |
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| 18:59.15 | ZaZaGX | i'm using starbuck's wifi |
| 18:59.40 | greycat | so, what do you want? |
| 19:00.13 | ZaZaGX | not sure if i know starbuck's wifi IP address |
| 19:00.28 | greycat | why does it matter? |
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| 19:01.08 | ZaZaGX | nothing illegal of course |
| 19:01.10 | valdyn | ZaZaGX: as long as the vpn is up you are only showing that ip to that vpn, so look there |
| 19:01.15 | tharkun | ZaZaGX: What do you need? What is your goal? |
| 19:01.57 | ZaZaGX | no, i was just curious if you guys know my IP address with my VPN up |
| 19:02.25 | greycat | if you're IRCing through a VPN, we will only see the VPN endpoint |
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| 19:09.49 | galvanoport | I don't like the bug tracking system on debian. |
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| 19:12.42 | whislock | EdePopede: https://paste.debian.net/1119095/ |
| 19:12.53 | whislock | EdePopede: The behavior between 9 and 10 is the same. |
| 19:13.08 | greycat | http://paste.wooledge.org/517 <- apt-get on Debian 9 |
| 19:15.43 | ZaZaGX | oh |
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| 19:16.39 | galvanoport | debianbts is not working |
| 19:16.46 | galvanoport | on debian 10 |
| 19:17.16 | galvanoport | and debianbts is confuse program for end users |
| 19:17.20 | greycat | "I did ___ and the result was ___" |
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| 19:19.07 | galvanoport | I typed "debianbts" and get "2019-12-02 22:11:14,670 WARNING debianbts Not implemented yet, sorry!" message now. |
| 19:19.38 | greycat | I've literally never heard of this command until now. Use reportbug instead. That's how you're supposed to do it. |
| 19:21.01 | ZaZaGX | sometimes i wanna throw my laptop into the wall |
| 19:22.33 | galvanoport | :D |
| 19:23.10 | galvanoport | okay, reportbug is so confuse program |
| 19:23.20 | galvanoport | I want simple than that |
| 19:23.45 | rander2 | how change default browser in xfce |
| 19:24.01 | whislock | galvanoport: reportbug is what you have. |
| 19:24.23 | etp3626 | hmm, funny. if i run live-build to create a debian 10 live image on debian 9, the resulting image is indeed a debian 10 live system, but without efi secure boot. if i run live-build on debian with the same config, the resulting debian 10 live system *is* efi secure bootable. i thought everything in live-build is independent of the system it runs on, because all steps run in a chroot environment. |
| 19:25.13 | etp3626 | correction: if i run live-build to create a debian 10 live image on debian 9, the resulting image is indeed a debian 10 live system, but without efi secure boot. if i run live-build on debian 10 with the same config, the resulting debian 10 live system *is* efi secure bootable. i thought everything in live-build is independent of the system it runs on, because all steps run in a chroot environment. |
| 19:25.44 | galvanoport | whislock: okay |
| 19:27.03 | ZaZaGX | don't use a chromebook |
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| 19:29.01 | rander2 | ok, it's exo-preferred-applications |
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| 19:49.07 | tharkun | There are some features of postgresql 12.1 that are "very nice to have". Is ssbp or uupdate the way to go? Does newer versions of postgres get ported to |
| 19:49.12 | tharkun | back-ported |
| 19:49.19 | NeoIT | hello, how can i call "apt update && apt dist-uprade" as some kind of dry-run? |
| 19:49.37 | greycat | ,v postgresql |
| 19:49.38 | judd | Package: postgresql on amd64 -- jessie: 9.4+165+deb8u3; jessie-security: 9.4+165+deb8u4; stretch: 9.6+181+deb9u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 9.6+181+deb9u3; stretch-security: 9.6+181+deb9u3; buster: 11+200+deb10u2; buster-proposed-updates: 11+200+deb10u3; buster-security: 11+200+deb10u3; bullseye: 12+210; sid: 12+210 |
| 19:50.08 | KINgGh0sT | I was trying to install mysql-community-server but it failed, now I cannot purge it or try and fix it 'apt-get install -f'. Can anyone help me get rid of this package? |
| 19:50.09 | tharkun | greycat: It is present on bullseye and sid. Therefor the question. |
| 19:50.32 | galvanoport | "reportbug" program is not good for end users |
| 19:51.00 | somiaj | KINgGh0sT: where did you get this package? Debian doesn't provide mysql packages in recent release (it uses mariadb) |
| 19:51.00 | galvanoport | it is so bad and confuse |
| 19:51.12 | greycat | galvanoport: then follow a manual procedure for emailing the bug report. |
| 19:51.32 | galvanoport | no I'll not |
| 19:51.42 | greycat | ,checkbackport postgresql-12 |
| 19:51.43 | somiaj | galvanoport: works just fine here, asks you a series of questions, and has you fill in info about the bug. |
| 19:51.58 | judd | Backporting package postgresql-12 in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: clang-9 [!alpha !hppa !hurd-i386 !ia64 !kfreebsd-amd64 !kfreebsd-i386 !m68k !powerpc !riscv64 !sh4 !sparc64 !x32], llvm-9-dev [!alpha !hppa !hurd-i386 !ia64 !kfreebsd-amd64 !kfreebsd-i386 !m68k !powerpc !riscv64 !sh4 !sparc64 !x32]. |
| 19:52.05 | greycat | Sounds like a no-go. |
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| 19:52.41 | KINgGh0sT | somiaj, through the https://dev.mysql.com repository. I realized after that it moved now |
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| 19:52.58 | somiaj | tharkun: Due to security support, I'd suggest sticking with the version in buster. If you do want 12.1, you'll have to matain your own version (including security support) via a custom backport or local install. |
| 19:52.59 | KINgGh0sT | Here is the pastebin of my attempted removal, https://pastebin.com/hQ0CxSfM |
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| 19:53.04 | tharkun | greycat: Thanks. I will evaluate setting up the build && test process for our architectures. |
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| 19:53.37 | NeoIT | !queue |
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| 19:54.00 | tharkun | somiaj: Thanks. Writteng on the appropiate manuals now. |
| 19:54.13 | galvanoport1 | why there is not bugzilla website for debian users? |
| 19:54.13 | somiaj | KINgGh0sT: looks like you'll have to manually fix the script that is failing in /var/lib/dpkg/info/packagename.postrm |
| 19:54.32 | NeoIT | nobody free at the moment or was my question not smart enough? |
| 19:54.38 | somiaj | oh wait it is the prerm script, not post, but either way, you have to do manual work since these packages are not built for debian. |
| 19:54.53 | greycat | galvanoport: because what you are describing is not a useful bug report. It is not worth anyone's time. There is a bare minimum competence level required to file a bug report, so that the bug report will actually be USEFUL. |
| 19:55.11 | somiaj | galvanoport: bugs.debian.org works just fine, it just does everything as a maling list which works. |
| 19:55.29 | KINgGh0sT | somiaj, any clue how to go about that? |
| 19:56.06 | greycat | NeoIT: apt-get --dry-run dist-upgrade |
| 19:56.12 | galvanoport1 | reportbug is a meaningless program |
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| 19:56.17 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 19:56.22 | somiaj | NeoIT: the update probably dosen't need the be a dry run, but apt-get (and maybe apt) has --dry-run, -s, --simulate options. Check man apt-get for the options |
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| 19:56.28 | galvanoport1 | it is ask stupid mail questions |
| 19:56.30 | NeoIT | no kidding, that command exists. what have i been looking at then |
| 19:56.30 | somiaj | NeoIT: unsure which of the options apt honors though. |
| 19:56.40 | greycat | SERIOUSLY |
| 19:56.50 | NeoIT | yeah. so sorry! |
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| 19:57.27 | somiaj | NeoIT: now this will only check what packages will be installed, it won't check if the install scripts run correctly. |
| 19:58.14 | somiaj | galvanoport: reportbug needs to send an email so it will of course want this to be configured, though I think newer report bug uses debian servers by default which is making it sligltly easier for novice users. |
| 19:58.36 | NeoIT | the thing is this: i plan to write a little script that checks if critical packages like the kernel or grub get an update. if not then install the updates |
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| 19:59.53 | somiaj | NeoIT: you might just want to look at unattended-upgrades, also I would still install kernel/grub updates, but send an email to let you know they have been done so you can schedule a reboot to test things. |
| 20:00.29 | NeoIT | that seems like a good idea, thanks |
| 20:01.15 | KINgGh0sT | somiaj, or at the very least is there a way for apt to ignore that package so it's not prompted anytime apt is used |
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| 20:01.32 | greycat | !hold |
| 20:01.33 | dpkg | hold is a status flag that tells the package manager to not automatically upgrade a package. To hold a package 'echo $package hold|dpkg --set-selections' or 'aptitude hold $package'. Note that prior to <stretch> "aptitude hold" is ignored by other package managers and aptitude won't necessarily use holds set with dpkg; see Debian bug #137771. See also <hold list>, <unhold>. |
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| 20:08.57 | somiaj | KINgGh0sT: I would fix the problem, which requires some edits on the scripts that are failing. |
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| 20:10.19 | KINgGh0sT | hmm, okay |
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| 20:15.25 | oxek | how can I have different firewall rules based on wifi network name? This is a laptop with NetworkManager installed. |
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| 20:19.21 | lszyba1 | Hello, |
| 20:19.21 | lszyba1 | I just upgraded from 9.x to 10.2 |
| 20:19.21 | lszyba1 | apache gives me a SSL routines:SSL_CTX_use_certificate:ee key too small... |
| 20:19.21 | lszyba1 | Would anybody know how to fix that? What is the command to increase the key or redo the keys? the correct way |
| 20:21.25 | greycat | bug #907888 seems related |
| 20:21.26 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/907888 in openssl (closed): «opopenssl: Breaks wpa_supplicant (and NetworkManager) which fail with error "ee key too small"»; severity: important; opened: 2018-09-03; last modified: 2018-12-26. |
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| 21:00.40 | saaaito | Hi |
| 21:01.13 | saaaito | Does freenode keeps a logging for a chats? |
| 21:01.25 | greycat | No. But there are logs of this channel. |
| 21:01.33 | greycat | !irc logs |
| 21:01.33 | dpkg | from memory, irclog is #debian on <freenode> is logged at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23debian/ , #debian on <OFTC> is logged at http://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/ |
| 21:02.15 | saaaito | Thanks ;) |
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| 21:46.59 | Wulf | oxek: create separate chains for each network. In some connect script you can add a rule to jump to the right chain. |
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| 21:52.40 | NixZiZ | Hey all, I grabbed 10.2.0 DVD1 today, trying to use an archive mirror during install, but every mirror I try reports (tty4) "mirror does not support the specified release (buster)" |
| 21:53.18 | greycat | buster is not archived |
| 21:53.48 | NixZiZ | Got it, will install without one. Thanks! Just checking I'm not crazy :p |
| 21:54.53 | greycat | You should just be using a regular mirror. I don't even know what an "archive mirror" is supposed to mean. |
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| 21:55.48 | NixZiZ | I might be using a normal one. Forgot where I read archive. I should have taken a pic... Too late now |
| 21:56.10 | greycat | maybe your *networking* is not working. is this a laptop? |
| 21:56.21 | NixZiZ | No, this is a server. The network definitely works |
| 21:56.46 | greycat | corporate firewall screwing you over? |
| 21:57.39 | NixZiZ | Shouldn't be. We've got no rules to block outbound tcp on pretty much anything |
| 21:58.08 | greycat | well, get it installed, and then it'll be easier to diagnose the network afterward |
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| 21:59.14 | NixZiZ | Yep, that's what I'm doing now :) |
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| 22:25.39 | mason | Can someone familiar with Debian GR processes tell me if there's enough data to suggest when https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002 might come to vote? |
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| 22:33.37 | B|ack0p | sup |
| 22:34.08 | gry | hi B|ack0p; may i help you? |
| 22:34.22 | gry | mason was asking when https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002 will be open for voting |
| 22:34.31 | gry | apart from that, there is no ongoing discussions right now |
| 22:34.38 | B|ack0p | just greeting |
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| 22:35.41 | mason | gry: In channel? I didn't see anything over the last couple days on the debian-devel archives. Just curious. I guess it'll happen when it happens. |
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| 22:36.00 | gry | you asked it in here so i forwarded |
| 22:36.03 | B|ack0p | actually i have a problem now. |
| 22:36.10 | B|ack0p | on xfce sound doesnt work at all |
| 22:36.56 | gry | only in xfce? |
| 22:37.06 | B|ack0p | it started working now.. |
| 22:37.13 | B|ack0p | having weird issues with xfce :S |
| 22:37.42 | B|ack0p | sound is lower than normal even at 100% |
| 22:37.55 | B|ack0p | is there setting to apply over amplify as in gnome? |
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| 22:38.43 | somiaj | mason: that is standard debian policy, when it is ready. By the dates in the page, I would say within the next month, but just a wild guess from me. |
| 22:38.56 | mason | somiaj: Fair enough. |
| 22:39.28 | mason | B|ack0p: You can always use alsamixer or pactl or similar to look at levels behind the pretty interface. |
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| 22:40.14 | B|ack0p | which one is better? |
| 22:40.19 | B|ack0p | is it a xfce plugin? |
| 22:40.19 | somiaj | pavucontrol is a decent desktop indepedent tool for pulseaudio |
| 22:40.37 | humbot | xfce4 has no panel applet for sound by default right? |
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| 22:40.48 | mason | B|ack0p: I'm not sure what XFCE runs. I'd guess PA, in which case 'pactl list sinks' will give you a lot of data. I think it's in pulseaudio-utils or something along those lines. |
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| 22:41.00 | B|ack0p | it has pulseaudio but sound is lower than normal |
| 22:41.03 | B|ack0p | i dont know why |
| 22:41.16 | mason | ,v pulseaudio-utils |
| 22:41.17 | judd | Package: pulseaudio-utils on amd64 -- jessie: 5.0-13; stretch: 10.0-1+deb9u1; buster: 12.2-4+deb10u1; bullseye: 13.0-3; sid: 13.0-3 |
| 22:41.34 | somiaj | check a mixer, pavucontroll is the de independent one I know off |
| 22:42.06 | B|ack0p | pulseaudio-utils already installed |
| 22:42.39 | B|ack0p | pavucontrol is already the newest version (3.0-4). |
| 22:43.02 | somiaj | then just run pavucontrol and check the mixer levels |
| 22:43.33 | B|ack0p | oh sorry |
| 22:43.37 | B|ack0p | pavucontrol was 50% |
| 22:43.46 | B|ack0p | now sound is loader |
| 22:43.52 | gry | good |
| 22:43.54 | B|ack0p | thx a lot |
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| 23:11.06 | humbot | loader |
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| 23:17.18 | Alice2003 | Hayo! Anyone can help me? How I can make the wifi on my laptop works? I have a anatel pci network card, but the system see it as the BCM4313. What I need to do? |
| 23:18.38 | gry | did it work before? |
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| 23:19.02 | Alice2003 | Only in monitor mode. |
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| 23:20.15 | linuxguy2020 | I really like installing plymouth boot themer and using that but I never could get it to work with Nvidia non-free driver. I'm wondering if that has changed? |
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| 23:25.41 | Alice2003 | Maybe its because of brcmsmac driver? What driver works with anatel |
| 23:25.44 | Alice2003 | ? |
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| 23:26.05 | somiaj | I think it is now the nvidia driver works with the standard kvm drivers and framebuffers for plymouth |
| 23:27.02 | linuxguy2020 | somiaj: Ok so just install and give it a whirl? Hopefully I dont have to jump through a bunch of hoops. |
| 23:27.03 | somiaj | do you know if plymoth is using framebuffers or kms for its graphics. |
| 23:27.11 | linuxguy2020 | somiaj: No idea |
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| 23:28.16 | somiaj | hmm, yea I think you won't have much luck, not finding anything promising on it working with newer kernels, think the problem is non-free nvidia drivers. |
| 23:28.23 | somiaj | would the nouveau drivers work for you? |
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| 23:30.52 | somiaj | I'm only finding lots of out dated info, I think the newer nvidia drivers support kms, and if they do, plymouth should work |
| 23:31.51 | somiaj | I see one place that says you might need to nvidia-drm.modeset=1 to force kms mode |
| 23:32.55 | somiaj | also if you using efi, it might be able to work with the efi framebuffer directly and not need to worry about the nvidia drivers |
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| 23:34.30 | somiaj | well seems nvidia does support kms, but it might need to be manually enabled, and doesn't support all features. |
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| 23:39.27 | lszyba1 | Would anybody know how to increase apache ssl cert size...as of 10.2 upgrade from 9 its too short...and I guess the upgrade process didn't regenerate them |
| 23:39.38 | nvz | Alice2003: we need the pciid not the name to lookup support |
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| 23:41.29 | whislock | lszyba1: This is covered in Apache httpd documentation. https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/ssl/ssl_faq.html#aboutcerts |
| 23:43.05 | somiaj | lszyba1: are these self-signed certs, or one from some CA? |
| 23:43.32 | *** join/#debian VlanX (~sysadmin@5.61.222.115) |
| 23:44.04 | VlanX | Hello... I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that changing the DNS on debian is hard |
| 23:44.13 | VlanX | apparently editing /etc/resolv.conf |
| 23:44.16 | VlanX | is not wnough |
| 23:44.19 | VlanX | *enough |
| 23:44.25 | VlanX | what sohuld I be doing' |
| 23:44.26 | nvz | dpkg, be changing the dns on debian barbie |
| 23:44.26 | dpkg | But changing the dns on debian is soooooo hard! :`( Ken, call me a waaaaahbulance *cry* |
| 23:45.26 | somiaj | lszyba1: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=907888 -- did you check that out, seems there are client side things you can do to lower the 2048 bit requirement on certs, but it isn't recommended. It is recommended to upgrade your certs, sot he question is, where did you get your certs in the first place. |
| 23:45.27 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/907888 in openssl (closed): «opopenssl: Breaks wpa_supplicant (and NetworkManager) which fail with error "ee key too small"»; severity: important; opened: 2018-09-03; last modified: 2018-12-26. |
| 23:45.45 | VlanX | nvz: what you suggest, genius? |
| 23:46.39 | somiaj | VlanX: It depends on how you manage your network. Problem is there could be various software (like NetworkManager, dhclient, etc) that write the name servers to that file, and so this boils down to making sure you understand how your network is managed. |
| 23:47.04 | somiaj | VlanX: if you configure it correctly, it won't overwrite /etc/resolv.conf or you can even configure what it writes in there. |
| 23:47.31 | somiaj | VlanX: there is also resolvconf or openresolv which are packages that help manage /etc/resolv.conf and give you a bit more control if multiple tools are overwriting things. |
| 23:47.58 | VlanX | somiaj: the point is that my /etc/resolv.conf is what I'm expecting it to be, the problem is that it seems to be using still the old DNS |
| 23:48.03 | VlanX | I even rebooted the VM |
| 23:48.19 | somiaj | what is it? |
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| 23:48.41 | somiaj | as in what command is using that dns service, what command are you running? |
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| 23:50.55 | VlanX | somiaj: ping / dig |
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| 23:51.04 | VlanX | the older DNS is the default gateway |
| 23:51.49 | somiaj | do you this domain that isn't working as expected in /etc/hosts |
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| 23:52.13 | somiaj | also dig I think dones't always honor /etc/resolv.conf, and uses the dns you tell it to. |
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| 23:52.59 | somiaj | ahh guess it will use /etc/resolv.conf, but does dig work correctly if you point it directly at the dns server you want it to use? |
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| 23:59.34 | VlanX | somiaj: sorry I was being an idiot... I tought the server was debian but it was actually ubuntu shit... |