| 00:00.04 | somiaj | seems that since you know it is off topic, you should have just kept it to yourself. I know you are trying to be helpful to others, but still we try to stick to #debian support only here. |
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| 00:03.40 | FleaFart | crohns is the most painful way to live, this really needs to get around; and everyone on facebook knows, it just linux doesn't have a facebook or irc and discord are as close to facebook as it gets. so new topic, what is the linux version of facebook, if there is such a thing, Or maybe I could create a Crohns channel. all good, and sorry for the off topic... |
| 00:04.19 | FleaFart | somiaj, if I could have UNPOSTED, I would have, but I clicked before I thought. |
| 00:04.50 | FleaFart | thinking is hard |
| 00:05.34 | somiaj | FleaFart: its all good, just for future reference, lets try to stick to debian support. |
| 00:06.04 | FleaFart | of course, |
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| 05:40.39 | FleaFart | !fixgrub |
| 05:40.39 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 05:42.04 | FleaFart | Ok, I did alt-f2 and I am at the prompt, but I have no idea about whatever and target |
| 05:42.18 | jm_ | have you tried using rescue mode first? |
| 05:42.23 | FleaFart | I tried fdisk -l |
| 05:42.57 | jm_ | try using rescue mode - it should take care of mounting your root fs |
| 05:43.03 | FleaFart | I am afraid that rescue mode might overwrite my important files on the desktop |
| 05:43.17 | jm_ | it doesn't do that |
| 05:43.25 | FleaFart | promise |
| 05:43.38 | FleaFart | ok, my fingers are crossed |
| 05:43.42 | FleaFart | thanks |
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| 05:52.10 | FleaFart | in the graphical rescue mode : select device to use as root file system... with no tools to figure out which of 9 is the one. I am lost, |
| 05:52.40 | FleaFart | it not a partition issue, it is a grub issue |
| 05:53.09 | FleaFart | so am I in the wrong place? |
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| 05:53.45 | jm_ | ok, if you switch to tty2, is lsblk command available? |
| 05:55.25 | FleaFart | I don't even know what tty2 is or how to get there from here, I have noticed it in /dev or some folder but never understood it. |
| 05:55.40 | jm_ | ctrl-alt-f2 gets you to tty2, ctrl-altr-f1 to go back to installer |
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| 05:57.24 | FleaFart | there, LSBLK lower case, not found |
| 05:57.35 | jm_ | ok then use fdisk -l as you tried before |
| 05:57.52 | FleaFart | yeah that works |
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| 05:58.24 | jm_ | can you figure it out from that output, i.e. based on size and ID? look for ID 83 |
| 05:59.47 | FleaFart | sda8 = swap ; sda1 = EFI ; sda7 = Lenovo boot partition ; and finally sda4 is my Debian partition |
| 06:00.15 | jm_ | so try selecting sda4 on rescue screen |
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| 06:01.59 | FleaFart | got message "(WW) FBDEV(0): please fix the 'FBDEV' driver! |
| 06:02.43 | FleaFart | I |
| 06:02.45 | jm_ | is screen still usable? |
| 06:02.55 | FleaFart | nope, |
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| 06:02.57 | FleaFart | I |
| 06:03.08 | FleaFart | will restart, and use sda4 |
| 06:03.08 | jm_ | then boot in non graphical mode ;) |
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| 06:03.15 | FleaFart | brb |
| 06:03.17 | soul-d | boot a livecd and mount your normal stuff first and backup ? |
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| 06:04.29 | FleaFart | that sounds really scary |
| 06:04.48 | soul-d | nothing is mounted and you can mount readonly |
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| 06:06.49 | FleaFart | it all looks french to me |
| 06:06.59 | FleaFart | ;-) |
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| 06:31.40 | FleaFart | Everything results in an error message |
| 06:31.56 | FuzzyByte | Define 'everything'. |
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| 06:33.53 | FleaFart | Mount failed, an error occurred while mounting the Debian partition ~~~ (/dev/sda4) ~~~~ Check syslog for more information... but no button to get to the syslog |
| 06:34.06 | jm_ | what did you type? |
| 06:34.19 | jm_ | or is that from the installer itself? |
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| 06:34.29 | FleaFart | I have an old hirenCD from 1996 |
| 06:34.43 | FleaFart | this is the installer itself |
| 06:34.51 | FleaFart | in rescue mode |
| 06:35.11 | jm_ | ok then try to mount it yourself on tty2 and see what it says |
| 06:35.14 | FleaFart | on a brand new duel boot laptop |
| 06:38.09 | FleaFart | mount -t ext4 /dev/sda4 /???/ what is the target |
| 06:38.33 | FleaFart | my details are above,,, |
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| 06:39.08 | FleaFart | sda8 = swap ; sda1 = EFI ; sda7 = Lenovo boot partition ; and finally sda4 is my Debian partition |
| 06:39.21 | jm_ | mkdir /tmp/rootfs ; mount -t ext4 /dev/sda4 /tmp/rootfs |
| 06:39.49 | jm_ | in general, on installer /target dir should exist so I think you can literally use /target |
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| 06:40.39 | FleaFart | yes there is a target when typing ls -alh |
| 06:40.41 | jm_ | otherwise you will have to adjust the commands mentioned by dpkg earlier |
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| 06:44.36 | FleaFart | ok, the /tmp/rootfs already exists. |
| 06:44.43 | FleaFart | but when I did |
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| 06:46.24 | FleaFart | mount -t ext4 /dev/sda4 /tmp/rootfs ;;; I get Mount: mounting /dev/sda4 on /tmp/rootfs faild: Invalid argument... so I am not good at following orders I guess, I'll re read |
| 06:46.44 | jm_ | check what kernel said with dmesg command |
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| 06:50.17 | FleaFart | dmesg ::: result in words like raid6: sse2x1 gen() 9474 MB/s and initialised: dm-devel@redhat.com but I can not see kernal and page up isn't working |
| 06:50.59 | FleaFart | I am not an idiot, but I feel like one, this is embarrassing ;-) |
| 06:51.00 | jm_ | there's nothing about mount or sda4 at the end of the output? |
| 06:51.36 | jm_ | you can scroll up/down with shift page-up/down, but in this case the info should be at the bottom anyway |
| 06:52.01 | FleaFart | Nothing, I know what you mean, I know what it should look like on a working debian, it just very strange here |
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| 06:53.43 | FleaFart | lot of words ... like Link not ready... and link is down and raid6 using algorithm avx2x gen() and enp2s0 is down |
| 06:53.54 | jm_ | and /dev/sda4 exists? if you type mount, is anything with type ext4 mounted? |
| 06:53.58 | FleaFart | but no device or partion info |
| 06:54.38 | jm_ | is this a regular setup? with that I mean if no raid or encryption is involved |
| 06:56.56 | FleaFart | ls -alh ::: brw------ 1 root root 8, 4 Dec ~~~~ sda4 |
| 06:58.23 | FleaFart | I did the org install, and it worked ... I did not create a raid6 or encryption when doing the org install. |
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| 06:58.44 | FleaFart | I can check the bios... would it state if it is in there |
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| 06:59.18 | FleaFart | if it is, I will backup, and reinstall win10 and Debian |
| 06:59.35 | FleaFart | I don't like raid, it cause more issues than it solves |
| 06:59.59 | jm_ | no, it's OK, just wanted to confirm we are not wasting time because of that |
| 07:00.33 | FleaFart | I agree |
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| 07:01.59 | jm_ | ok so check the output of mount like I said before, if it' snot mounted, run dmesg, remember the last time stamp it shows (should be the value in [] at the beginning of each line), then try to mount again: mount -t ext4 /dev/sda4 /target - then if it gives an error, run dmesg again and check if anything new showed up after your remembered timestamp |
| 07:02.02 | FleaFart | I am thinking that I should try the hirens CD as it is live, then grab my book that I wrote, then I won't be stressed and sweating into my keyboard. |
| 07:02.06 | FleaFart | what do you think |
| 07:03.13 | jm_ | I wouldn't try to use something from 1996 :) |
| 07:04.11 | FleaFart | I have ubuntu 18,04 live dvd as well, Ihave a stack from floor to ceiling, I still have win95 |
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| 07:04.17 | FleaFart | cds |
| 07:04.26 | FleaFart | ok, brb I'll try above |
| 07:04.33 | jm_ | yeah that ubuntu CD might be a better target |
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| 07:06.38 | FleaFart | what does target mean... I mean in this case |
| 07:06.48 | FleaFart | typing mount |
| 07:06.53 | FleaFart | is interesting |
| 07:07.05 | FleaFart | results in |
| 07:07.27 | jm_ | /target is the mount point |
| 07:08.48 | FleaFart | rootfs on / type rootfs ~~~ rw ~~ then none on /run type tmpfs then none on /proc ~~~ then none on /sys type sysfs then devtmpfs on /dev... I wish I understood it. |
| 07:09.51 | jm_ | but no sda4? |
| 07:10.20 | FleaFart | Ok, I'll get the ubuntu cd and boot live and try to get my book thank so much for your time, but I just have not found a good tutorial about mounting proc etc. I do know that a root user has a !userwithroot attributes just not this stuff |
| 07:10.34 | FleaFart | brb |
| 07:10.40 | FleaFart | I'll try again |
| 07:10.53 | jm_ | all thay is what dpkg told you how to do it: |
| 07:11.05 | jm_ | <PROTECTED> |
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| 07:13.48 | FleaFart | I keep getting invalid argument when # mount -t ext4 /dev/sda4 /target |
| 07:13.55 | FleaFart | is the command right |
| 07:14.26 | jm_ | ok try booting ubuntu live cd, we will have more commands to check things there |
| 07:14.38 | FleaFart | ok, and gparted |
| 07:14.39 | jm_ | heck, you could even paste stuff ... |
| 07:14.48 | FleaFart | to see if the disk is corrupted |
| 07:15.30 | FleaFart | brb, got to dig around a big box of cds covered in dust... LOL |
| 07:17.41 | jim | FleaFart, if you first boot from a live cd, note that /proc is already mounted... you would bind mount it inside the chroot after you've mounted the already-existing / partition (or vol) |
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| 07:20.43 | sphalerite_ | Hi folks. I have a debian installed using debootstrap in /debian and I want to find the "final" destination of the symlink /debian/usr/bin/cc without chrooting in. Is there a tool that can do that for me? |
| 07:20.44 | jim | FleaFart, invalid argument, ultimately, is an ioctl that hasn't been established... often, this is overall caused by a kernel module that's not been inserted (which often register ioctls that perform functions for a specific device or other topic for a driver |
| 07:21.01 | FleaFart | thanks |
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| 07:22.04 | FleaFart | I am trying to check my bios for raid, and if Debian will boot, so if you have to go, I'll understand. I have a feeling this will be a 3 hour event |
| 07:22.33 | FleaFart | I am going to copy all your text, so I can refer to it. thanks so much |
| 07:22.45 | jim | FleaFart, so, some software is missing that would have initialized (in part) by registering ioctls, but since it didn't, those ioctls are missing, so when they are later invoked, ioctl says: invalid argument |
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| 07:23.23 | g0fuhkyrslfy | <PROTECTED> |
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| 07:24.32 | FleaFart | I understood everything except ioctl LOL ;-) |
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| 07:27.05 | FleaFart | I have the live cd, but thought I would check if I could BIOS select win boot, to see if win is working, it doing an update... wtf |
| 07:27.12 | jim | FleaFart, that one's a little harder to explain... but if you understood most of that, all good... often, when a kernel module comes in, it will register some ioctls... so, when somethign forgot that kernel module, those ioctls don't get registered, so when some services of the missing module are invoked, you just get the ioctl message: invalid argument |
| 07:27.24 | FleaFart | but it might fix this bios issue so I did the update |
| 07:27.45 | jim | an ioctl is like a repository for pieces of code |
| 07:28.45 | FleaFart | Understood first init, then ioctls, if issue like mine, it generally an kernal issue. thanks I apreciate it |
| 07:28.46 | jim | you call ioctl like this: ioctl(commandInteger, (more args here)); |
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| 07:29.06 | FleaFart | ok looking if bios has a raid installed |
| 07:29.18 | jim | invalid argument means the commandInteger hasn't been registered |
| 07:29.56 | FleaFart | in bios now |
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| 07:33.35 | FleaFart | boot mode Legacy support; boot priority UEFI first ; USB boot enabled ; PXE disbled ; SATA Controller Mode AHCI ; Intel virtual Technology Enabled ; intel platfor trust technology DISABLED ; on my Lenovo Ideapad 100-15IBD |
| 07:33.54 | FleaFart | should I change anything here |
| 07:34.27 | FleaFart | duel booting win10 and Debian 10 |
| 07:34.31 | FleaFart | or buster |
| 07:34.55 | FleaFart | so I guess legacy is't required |
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| 07:35.41 | FleaFart | I can not find anything about raid... strange |
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| 07:36.51 | FleaFart | I have the intel virtual Technology because I a guessing it will let me make a virtual box in win10 for checking different distros out |
| 07:37.58 | FleaFart | Ok, I changed to UEFI only, and disabled FASTBOOT |
| 07:39.21 | jm_ | FleaFart: no leave all stuff in bios as it was, btw, how did the issue happen? |
| 07:39.41 | jm_ | yeah fastboot should be disabled |
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| 07:42.04 | FleaFart | I used debian last night, then the grub failed the next morning. I closed debian normally, and didn't use win at all |
| 07:42.10 | FleaFart | so I don't know |
| 07:42.51 | FleaFart | this is strange |
| 07:43.41 | FleaFart | Legacy is empty now when I re enable it. and IFI says Ubuntu ; then Win the dvd drive |
| 07:43.44 | jm_ | that's strange |
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| 07:46.16 | FleaFart | I may have installed ubuntu, then didn't like it and then Debian.. loved it. but this is strange, by the way I lost the Devuan in the grub when I installed Debian so ... in short , I have been having a lot of fun over the last 4 months. |
| 07:46.45 | jm_ | maybe os-prober package can help with grub config |
| 07:46.57 | jm_ | (to detect all installations) |
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| 07:47.47 | FleaFart | tried that, it just believes that devuan is a swap partition |
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| 07:50.02 | FleaFart | even stranger,,, when telling the bios to boot dvd, it ignored me, and booted the win in the update screen |
| 07:50.19 | FleaFart | so maybe it a file lock... I am going to let it finish. |
| 07:50.27 | FleaFart | just in case this is the issue |
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| 07:51.59 | dob1 | I don't understand how to escape quote in bash, echo 'test\'' doesn't work |
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| 07:52.43 | FleaFart | \\ |
| 07:52.53 | dob1 | no |
| 07:53.17 | FleaFart | use different quotes "test\'" |
| 07:53.22 | FleaFart | maybe |
| 07:53.34 | FleaFart | I am a noobs so don't trust me.. LOL |
| 07:53.42 | FleaFart | but that my guess |
| 07:54.07 | jm_ | if you only want to output ' then use "test'" |
| 07:54.34 | dob1 | yes "test'" works but "" will evaluate $foobar for example |
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| 07:57.30 | dob1 | I think this is a good way https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/187452/276987 echo 'abc'\''abc' |
| 07:58.13 | jm_ | seems to be the only way |
| 07:58.42 | FleaFart | jm_, yeah, something is really really corrupted, the win update won't... it is an endless loop, ... I'll get my data, and Recover to factory, then win, then debian again. so I think that where we at. what do you think before I commit. |
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| 07:59.29 | jm_ | FleaFart: well the only thing that would explain two OS-s failing is some sort of hardware failure, but in that case I would expect you'd see something in dmesg |
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| 08:00.48 | FleaFart | dmesg DID not look normal, it looked like a bunch of errors messages... but I didn't understand what the words meant |
| 08:01.08 | FleaFart | so something got into a birdsnest. |
| 08:01.16 | jm_ | well try to get ubuntu to boot and you could paste stuff for us to see |
| 08:01.23 | jm_ | ubuntu live that is |
| 08:03.17 | FleaFart | good news; it rebooted into win and did the updates. |
| 08:03.28 | FleaFart | so now onto live dvd |
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| 08:05.11 | FleaFart | I have a logical order to do things... but I have to do it this way, it my debug brain and trying to be careful. I don't mind reinstalling everything, I just want that data on my debian desktop not to turn to smoke. |
| 08:06.58 | FleaFart | what is a good learning tutorial to learn proc mount umount etc and grub fixing |
| 08:07.19 | FleaFart | text or 3 hour video is find |
| 08:08.03 | FleaFart | just so I can wrap my head around the small words that don't make sense to me |
| 08:08.23 | FleaFart | and I don't want to go through this again.. LOL |
| 08:08.48 | FleaFart | ubuntu is loading |
| 08:09.08 | FleaFart | I know it will work, I have loaded it on this machine before |
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| 08:12.22 | jm_ | not sure if there are any tutorials specifically for this, the concept in general is simple, boot, mount, fix, reboot :) |
| 08:13.01 | FleaFart | I have to learn the mount commands |
| 08:13.58 | FleaFart | I even have trouble using a USB it works once, and if I remove the usb ,,, it won't work if re mounted, I am that smart... like a stick |
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| 08:15.21 | FleaFart | I didn't used to be, age and crohns brain fog. I am over 60 years old, but did work on an IBM mainframe for a living. So I used to have a brain. |
| 08:15.22 | jm_ | you need to umount it before removing it |
| 08:15.54 | jm_ | and sometimes USB device name changes after reinserting it, use lsblk or cat /proc/partitions to see which it is |
| 08:16.37 | FleaFart | I need to really really research all these strange words when I get going |
| 08:16.49 | FleaFart | yes, ubuntu is here |
| 08:17.31 | jm_ | ok so same as before, fdisk -l and lsblk |
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| 08:21.48 | jim | FleaFart, first off... you have to unmount before you remove the deviced |
| 08:22.10 | jim | s/d$// |
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| 08:22.52 | FleaFart | is the s/d$// ;;; for me? |
| 08:23.03 | jm_ | :) |
| 08:23.12 | FleaFart | I have never seen that before |
| 08:23.16 | jm_ | it's a sed command |
| 08:23.22 | jim | second... the purpose of mounting is to take a storage unit which has a filesystem on it, and join it to an existing directory |
| 08:23.33 | FleaFart | I haven't used sed yet |
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| 08:24.01 | jim | FleaFart, I just meant I made a mistake, said deviced when I meant device |
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| 08:24.12 | FleaFart | I done both commands.. what am I looking for |
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| 08:24.29 | jim | which commands are those? |
| 08:24.33 | FleaFart | all good jim |
| 08:24.50 | FleaFart | fdisk -l and lsblk |
| 08:24.51 | jm_ | does it still list sda4 as ext4 root fs? |
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| 08:26.07 | FleaFart | SWAP |
| 08:26.16 | FleaFart | ouch |
| 08:26.21 | jim | the machine you ran those commands on... what does it say when you run: ping -c 1 -q yahoo.com && echo yes || echo no |
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| 08:27.09 | jm_ | if you tried to mount swap as ext4 before it would explain EINVAL |
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| 08:27.39 | jim | FleaFart, also, what does it say when you run: echo "== $(which nc) ==" |
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| 08:29.45 | FleaFart | Jim I don't know if your serious or if you are trying to help me use the live ubuntu cd to get my data from my Debian Desktop. |
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| 08:30.07 | FleaFart | but your commands do look interesting and I can see your very skilled. |
| 08:30.12 | jm_ | he is trying to establish if you can paste stuff for us to see |
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| 08:30.40 | FleaFart | jm_ here are the sda4 results |
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| 08:30.54 | jim | the questions are: is nc installed? and is networking up? |
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| 08:32.52 | jim | to the debian website people... the termbin.com site has a github repo listed there, I think you can make a termbin-like thing on paste.debian.org if you wanted to |
| 08:33.03 | FleaFart | net no, I haven't attached it to the internet because I can not get all the computers in one place all connected.. it cabling issue |
| 08:33.25 | jim | oh ok |
| 08:33.56 | jim | so then pastebinning something becomes a bit more involved |
| 08:34.32 | FleaFart | lsblk >> results sda4 8:4 122g 0 part [swap] |
| 08:35.06 | jim | 122 gig swap?! |
| 08:35.11 | jm_ | so why does it say swap? is it just marked incorrectly or has a mistake been made and its contents overwritten? |
| 08:35.28 | FleaFart | yes, I have to type what I see on the debian box with the black grub sceen to this other laptop |
| 08:36.01 | FleaFart | it not swap, it is Debian... and currently it is flagged as swap. |
| 08:36.12 | jim | you need a good working way to make backups :) |
| 08:36.15 | FleaFart | i |
| 08:36.26 | FleaFart | i will check gparted.. brb |
| 08:36.55 | jim | FleaFart, that's probably the partition type flag, which you can change |
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| 08:37.37 | FleaFart | it is also a hint, of what has happened. |
| 08:38.00 | jm_ | what does «file -s /dev/sda4» say? |
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| 08:41.17 | FleaFart | jm_, /dev/sda4: Linux/i386 swap file (new style), version 1 (4k pages) size 976639 pages, no label, uuid=~~~~ a normal looking uuid |
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| 08:41.51 | FleaFart | gparted result coming... so it a long post fo 9 sentences |
| 08:42.11 | jm_ | FleaFart: so it is correct, it's a 120G swap file and your contents are most likely gone |
| 08:42.43 | jim | FleaFart, you may wish to put that machine on the net, at least while you're gonna do the pastebins |
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| 08:43.41 | FleaFart | sda2 ms |
| 08:43.52 | FleaFart | sda3 win10 |
| 08:44.12 | jim | then you can install irssi or hexchat or whichever irc client you can use, and do irc from that machine, so you can put pastebin links directly from the web page or from the terminal |
| 08:44.39 | FleaFart | I can do that, just after I show the qparted,,, |
| 08:45.02 | FleaFart | I have crohns, and crohns brain fog... so I am slow.. sorry for that |
| 08:46.56 | FleaFart | test |
| 08:47.33 | FleaFart | omg I started my /dev/ and the / sent my post to no where |
| 08:47.43 | FleaFart | see how hard BRain Fog is |
| 08:47.46 | FleaFart | ok again |
| 08:48.37 | FleaFart | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:48.38 | jm_ | see if "/ /foo ..." works for that |
| 08:49.10 | jm_ | but then " /foo" is efectively cheaper to type |
| 08:49.17 | FleaFart | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:50.04 | yno | hi. after i get openvpn running (client), do i need to do something else in order to access the network? |
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| 08:50.13 | FleaFart | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:50.20 | yno | like connecting to that new weird interface that popped up on $ ip link show ? |
| 08:51.17 | FleaFart | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:51.46 | FleaFart | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:52.11 | FleaFart | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:52.51 | FleaFart | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:53.34 | FleaFart | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:54.06 | FleaFart | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:54.08 | FleaFart | done |
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| 08:54.18 | FleaFart | ok, what next |
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| 08:56.16 | FleaFart | I am going to look for my 128 gb mem stick for copy and paste I guess |
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| 08:56.41 | jm_ | to me this suggests either you or devuan installer made a mistake |
| 08:56.41 | FleaFart | but I don't know how to access or mount the sda9 partition |
| 08:56.58 | FleaFart | I want to copy /home/yin/ everything |
| 08:57.26 | jm_ | mkdir /tmp/myhome && mount -t ext4 /dev/sda9 /tmp/myhome && ls -l /tmp/myhome/*/ |
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| 09:04.19 | FleaFart | no errors; but it would take me 3 days to type out the results... LOOKS GOOD as I would expect |
| 09:04.44 | jm_ | ok so now you know how to mount it and copy stuff from it |
| 09:05.19 | FleaFart | really, |
| 09:06.42 | FleaFart | yes yes yes... |
| 09:06.46 | FleaFart | got my book |
| 09:06.59 | FleaFart | tahhnks so very very frigin much |
| 09:07.04 | FleaFart | LOL me so happy |
| 09:07.11 | jm_ | as for /dev/sda4 - it looks like that one is lost |
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| 09:08.30 | FleaFart | all good, |
| 09:08.36 | FleaFart | just care about the book |
| 09:08.48 | FleaFart | I was writing |
| 09:09.08 | FleaFart | how to mount the USB in ubuntu |
| 09:09.16 | FleaFart | 128 gb sandisk |
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| 09:09.30 | FleaFart | should work |
| 09:09.58 | jm_ | like I told you before, establish its device name and partition layout, again, lsblk or cat /proc/partitions should help |
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| 09:10.42 | FleaFart | brain fog.. and stess over time.. I am almost as smart as a stick |
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| 09:11.10 | FleaFart | I wish I understood that, if I did, I would know. |
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| 09:12.56 | FleaFart | is the usb sdb1 |
| 09:13.02 | jm_ | understand what? the process to mount something is to know the source (in this case device node) and where to mount it (i.e. /target or /tmp/myhome for todays attempts) |
| 09:13.11 | FleaFart | how can I mount something I don't know the name of |
| 09:13.26 | jm_ | does size for sdb and sdb1 match expected size for 128G sandisk? |
| 09:14.41 | hummingbee | aren't they running ubuntu live right now? |
| 09:14.50 | FleaFart | it is 114 G fat32 LBA |
| 09:14.53 | FleaFart | so yes |
| 09:15.05 | FleaFart | hummingbee, YES |
| 09:15.39 | hummingbee | let's hope the book file is not bigger than 4GB |
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| 09:16.53 | jm_ | maybe first check if ubuntu has already mounted it for you, mount | grep sdb |
| 09:16.56 | FleaFart | yes, nope, but I will copy all of my home/as there are all the packages I downloaded ... and etc.. |
| 09:17.26 | FleaFart | not mounted |
| 09:17.34 | FleaFart | is sdb1 |
| 09:17.42 | hummingbee | findmnt is nice |
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| 09:18.54 | FleaFart | I am just exausted now... but am very happy... I am so close. |
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| 09:18.58 | jm_ | so use slightly adjusted commands from before: mkdir /tmp/myusb && mount /dev/sdb1 /tmp/myusb |
| 09:19.18 | jm_ | note that we ommited -t option - it's usually not needed |
| 09:19.55 | FleaFart | that was what was messing me up |
| 09:19.57 | FleaFart | thank |
| 09:19.59 | FleaFart | brb |
| 09:20.14 | jm_ | enjoy |
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| 09:22.35 | FleaFart | your awesome, I am so thankful are you in toronto, I'll buy you lots of beers |
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| 09:23.20 | FleaFart | pm me if you have paypal that book was worth 20 bucks to me |
| 09:23.58 | FleaFart | not joking |
| 09:24.10 | jm_ | naah, it's OK, don't forget to umount /tmp/myusb before unplugging it (or unplug it after shutdown) |
| 09:24.49 | FleaFart | understood |
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| 09:27.46 | FleaFart | so all I have to do is |
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| 09:28.22 | FleaFart | # cp -r /tmp/myhome/home/yin/ /tmp/myusb/ |
| 09:28.25 | FleaFart | is that right |
| 09:28.33 | FleaFart | I just don't want to mess up now |
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| 09:29.25 | jm_ | looks OK |
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| 09:29.49 | FleaFart | thanks |
| 09:30.36 | FleaFart | BTW, the mounting feels not so scary after I have done it |
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| 09:31.27 | FleaFart | it not the process, it is the strange words used in explain the process that makes me so fogged up |
| 09:31.37 | FleaFart | it working, |
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| 09:32.51 | jm_ | yeah it's not really that special or hard |
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| 09:33.16 | FleaFart | lsblk for example has no meaning... what does it stand for.. fdisk is filedisk right |
| 09:33.42 | FleaFart | it still copying |
| 09:34.11 | wasamasa | list block devices |
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| 09:34.30 | wasamasa | it's usually in the manual |
| 09:34.30 | FleaFart | that really helps me |
| 09:34.32 | jm_ | from man page: lsblk - list block devices, |
| 09:34.38 | wasamasa | some things don't have a meaning though, like dd |
| 09:34.48 | wasamasa | so people come up with their own, like disk destroyer |
| 09:34.49 | jm_ | no idea what fdisk stands for |
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| 09:35.10 | FleaFart | dd is what I should have used instead of cp -r ... but I have never used dd yet |
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| 09:35.27 | FleaFart | what is dd |
| 09:36.12 | wasamasa | nobody knows |
| 09:36.23 | jm_ | dd is a more low level tool, don't use it instead of cp, your brain will hurt :) |
| 09:37.10 | jm_ | rsync is something you could use instead of cp |
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| 09:38.25 | annadane | !start a copy command war |
| 09:38.40 | annadane | REAL greybeards use cat |
| 09:38.50 | Kyros | dd if=/dev/zero /dev/annadane |
| 09:38.56 | FleaFart | got some errors: invalid argument... && cp: cannot create symbolic link 'tmp/myusb/yin/.kde/cache-hostname' operation not permitted |
| 09:39.30 | FleaFart | brb checking if the book is there |
| 09:39.46 | Kyros | i didnt even type it right |
| 09:40.08 | FleaFart | yes |
| 09:40.10 | wasamasa | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/170768/what-does-dd-stand-for |
| 09:40.11 | FleaFart | it there |
| 09:40.29 | jm_ | yeah fat32 doesn't support symlinks |
| 09:40.44 | Kyros | wasamasa: definitely #3 |
| 09:40.59 | FleaFart | good to know |
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| 09:41.42 | FleaFart | I won't use them in the /home directory |
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| 09:42.20 | jm_ | don't do that, just use them normally - use some other solution for this problem |
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| 09:47.41 | FleaFart | it the hidden files .something that naturally happen, I just should have copied home/yin/downloads,, then /home/yin/doc's etc... to avoid this |
| 09:47.47 | FleaFart | all good I have the book |
| 09:48.02 | FleaFart | i on the USB and that is all I needed. |
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| 09:48.21 | FleaFart | wasamasa, thanks for the good read about DD |
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| 09:49.36 | FleaFart | 'tmp/myusb/yin/.steam/debian-install/legacy~~~~ the steam program did it |
| 09:49.57 | FleaFart | so happy |
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| 09:51.15 | FleaFart | FINISHED cp |
| 09:51.30 | FleaFart | umounting |
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| 09:54.02 | FleaFart | umount /dev/sdb1 && mount | grep sdb >>> no results.. so it is umounted |
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| 09:54.45 | FleaFart | update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". |
| 09:55.08 | FleaFart | will the above fix the Debian grub |
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| 09:55.44 | FleaFart | where is the best place for the grub anyway. |
| 09:56.32 | jelly | depends on whether the system boots in EFI or legacy, legacy -> /dev/whole-disk-that-boots |
| 09:56.34 | FleaFart | sda1 EFI.. which has the boot, esp flag |
| 09:56.47 | FleaFart | efi |
| 09:56.58 | FleaFart | I assume |
| 09:57.10 | jelly | if it's EFI then it can only be installed in the efi partition anyway |
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| 09:57.52 | FleaFart | nice so /dev/sda1 it is |
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| 09:57.58 | FleaFart | thanks jelly |
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| 09:59.45 | artej | Hey, is there a way to check network logs like wireshark? KVIrc absolutely refuses to connect on my system I wonder wth is going on |
| 10:00.04 | artej | I have already reset config and ran it with LD_DEBUG=libs |
| 10:00.10 | artej | to check if it misses some component |
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| 10:11.13 | FleaFart | actually /dev/sda9 Debian has a KEY then ext4 then mount point /tmp/myhome .... should it be changed to / before I do the !fixgrub |
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| 10:13.04 | FleaFart | I'll do that another day,,, it is 5 am |
| 10:13.15 | FleaFart | good day everyone, I am going to bed |
| 10:13.21 | FleaFart | afk |
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| 10:22.59 | mllie | Hi! If a module is loaded and logs with pr_debug, pr_info etc, where is the messages outputed? |
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| 10:32.20 | ratrace | mllie: kernel module? |
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| 10:33.47 | gregorio2020 | guys, i tried to boot up my debian machine this morning and after i enter the bios pass and when its supposed to load it goes power offf... it does not start at all no matter how many times i try, after i pyr rge pass its not booting. any clue ? |
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| 10:36.56 | ratrace | gregorio2020: hardware issues? |
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| 10:39.17 | gregorio2020 | ratrace: dunno,, last night it worked. now its fked :) |
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| 10:41.59 | ratrace | gregorio2020: do you get to the grub menu at all? |
| 10:43.17 | jim | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:43.37 | ratrace | yeah, never heard if it? it's all the rge these days. |
| 10:43.37 | hummingbee | i guess incorrect password |
| 10:44.51 | jim | when did you install debian on your machine? |
| 10:45.30 | jim | do you have other operating systems that boot on the same machine? |
| 10:45.40 | jim | are you still here? :) |
| 10:46.00 | ratrace | who? |
| 10:46.08 | jim | the OP |
| 10:46.10 | ratrace | then highlight them :) |
| 10:47.17 | jim | I figure that since you highlighted him and he never responded after that, he's not paying attention to anything |
| 10:47.22 | FleaFart | BTW, for all of those that chimed in, I have my book, AND followed !fixgrub and I have the grub with Debian and win just like it was yesterday. so thank you jim, jm_ hummingbee for a job well done. If I didn't have you all, I would have lost a book that I typed, and would have to reinstall win and debian... because I would have really messed it up. and OH, I actually learned something, so thanks from the bottom of my heart |
| 10:48.33 | ratrace | Nothing says thank you like a big fat envelope full of cash. :) |
| 10:48.42 | gregorio2020 | ratrace: no |
| 10:48.50 | FleaFart | I did offer |
| 10:49.12 | FleaFart | a small sum,,, I guess it was too small |
| 10:49.27 | ratrace | gregorio2020: then I'm almost certain it's hardware issues. you'll have to figure out what is failing. PSU, motherboard, RAM, CPU, ... (in that order of probability, according to the symptoms) |
| 10:50.01 | jim | FleaFart, you're welcome, and again, you =really= need a good way to backup your files... consider getting a drive specifically for storing backups and using one of the backup programs available to you, maybe borg backup (I keep mentioning that one, because it seems to work so well for me) |
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| 10:51.18 | FleaFart | jim, I agree, |
| 10:51.20 | FleaFart | thanks |
| 10:51.57 | Haohmaru | hey, who farted? |
| 10:52.01 | ratrace | A flea |
| 10:52.15 | Haohmaru | damn it! |
| 10:53.02 | FleaFart | I am a little stinker |
| 10:53.26 | Haohmaru | little? that's such much polution |
| 10:53.36 | gregorio2020 | ratrace: ok thx |
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| 10:54.15 | Haohmaru | biological weapon sensors activated |
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| 10:58.56 | ratrace | I'm a little stin ker, short and stout... Here is my handle, here is my fart. |
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| 11:02.50 | mllie | ratrace: Yes, exactly |
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| 11:06.12 | jim | there are some biologicals, that once you smell them, they have already done their damage |
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| 11:06.34 | ratrace | mllie: then perhaps in the kernel ring buffer, visible with `dmesg` or `journalctl -k` |
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| 11:09.10 | mllie | ratrace: Nice, there some info was. But actually not any info or debug messages? |
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| 11:09.27 | ratrace | mllie: I have no idea what your module is and what it's supposed to output :) |
| 11:09.56 | mllie | ratrace: This one: https://github.com/maru-sama/rtsp-linux |
| 11:10.45 | mllie | ratrace: this one for example: https://github.com/maru-sama/rtsp-linux/blob/acb3f8025ba3d518574d05c90e85884db105747f/nf_conntrack_rtsp.c#L189 |
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| 11:14.36 | ratrace | mllie: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/28936199/why-is-pr-debug-of-the-linux-kernel-not-giving-any-output |
| 11:14.56 | jm_ | related https://www.kernel.org/doc/local/pr_debug.txt |
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| 11:22.17 | mllie | Then I have to recompile the module? |
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| 11:31.20 | jm_ | mllie: yes |
| 11:35.37 | mllie | jm_ god damn it.. :) Is there another way to debug that kind of module? It doesn't do what's expected |
| 11:36.07 | jm_ | mllie: adding pr_debug-s is probably the easiest method |
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| 11:37.33 | fling | how to tell /etc/network/interfaces to not update resolv.conf? |
| 11:37.34 | fling | >> iface eth0 inet dhcp |
| 11:37.39 | fling | But I still want dhcp ^ |
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| 11:38.16 | jm_ | fling: dhclient has an option for that |
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| 11:39.06 | jm_ | https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf |
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| 11:42.41 | ayekat | the chattr approach there is a hack and should be visibly noted as such |
| 11:42.42 | fling | thanks |
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| 11:42.51 | jm_ | yeah avoid that one |
| 11:43.03 | fling | chattr: Permission denied while setting flags on /etc/resolv.conf |
| 11:43.05 | fling | is what I first tried |
| 11:43.10 | fling | then joined the channel :P |
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| 12:28.53 | Janni | Hello. A colleague of mine is experiencing a weird phenomenon. I'm hoping you guys might have an explanation for it. |
| 12:29.12 | Haohmaru | Aliens. |
| 12:29.37 | Habbie | probably not aliens. |
| 12:29.47 | Janni | He is running a Postgres server that is doing a lot of work. It slows down his entire system. When he removes the swap everything runs very smoothly. |
| 12:29.52 | Haohmaru | chupa cabra then |
| 12:29.52 | jelly | maybe aliens. |
| 12:30.06 | Janni | Putting back the swap again slows down the system again. |
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| 12:30.24 | Janni | free -m shows that only half of his memory is used. |
| 12:30.29 | jelly | "doctor, it hurts when I do this" |
| 12:30.43 | jelly | Janni: is it a multi-socket physical server? |
| 12:31.22 | jelly | ie. does it have more than one physical cpu |
| 12:31.31 | Janni | jelly: I don't know what that means. It's a normal desktop PC... |
| 12:31.39 | Janni | jelly: I'll ask. |
| 12:32.15 | Janni | jelly: 2x6 |
| 12:32.21 | Janni | 2 CPUs with 6 cores each. |
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| 12:34.20 | ratrace | jelly: what are you suspecting, NUMA? |
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| 12:36.39 | satanist | hi were is a good place to set /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/defrag persistent? |
| 12:37.11 | satanist | for /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/enabled there is a kernel option, but I didn't find something simular for defrag |
| 12:37.51 | jm_ | satanist: sys variables can be set via /etc/sysctl.d |
| 12:37.55 | JyZyXEL | satanist: perhaps /etc/sysctl.d/10-hugepages.conf |
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| 12:38.49 | jelly | ratrace: "half the memory used" might point to numa, yeah |
| 12:39.17 | jelly | Janni: but two _physical_ cpus? |
| 12:39.24 | satanist | jm_ JyZyXEL: but with wich key in sysctl -a i haven't found a corresbonding key |
| 12:42.35 | ratrace | not all /sys vars can be set via sysctl, some are kernel module options, like this one I believe, so grub command line? |
| 12:42.58 | jm_ | vm/transhuge.txt says it can be set with echo |
| 12:43.12 | section1 | maybe is "one time" config...that triggers the defrag when you echo 1 to that file. |
| 12:43.20 | section1 | like rescan or others. |
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| 12:43.39 | section1 | not a config flag |
| 12:44.13 | jm_ | description suggests it's a config flag |
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| 12:44.38 | Haohmaru | so it seems i've installed 32bit debian instead of 64bit... now.. is there a way to change this without reinstalling and loosing configurations/customizations? |
| 12:45.06 | jm_ | Haohmaru: https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading but it can be painful |
| 12:45.09 | Haohmaru | i found some page on wiki.debian.org but it seems very old |
| 12:45.11 | Haohmaru | oh |
| 12:45.49 | ratrace | there's also sysfsutils with which options can be set on boot |
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| 12:45.53 | ratrace | satanist: ^^ |
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| 12:46.29 | jm_ | yeah sysfsutils seems like the best option |
| 12:46.48 | satanist | ratrace: thanks looks like the best option |
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| 12:55.15 | Haohmaru | where'd ya go jm_ |
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| 13:05.28 | jelly | Janni: so on the hunch you're seeing silly NUMA interactions, install "numactl" package, and pastebin the output of "numastat" |
| 13:05.37 | jelly | !paste |
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| 13:05.37 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
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| 13:08.00 | Haohmaru | do i use the script that's in the bottom of the wikipage there? |
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| 13:13.59 | Haohmaru | also, do i run those commands in a terminal, or.. log out of the desktop, switch to ctrl+F1 and run them there |
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| 13:14.06 | Haohmaru | or something moar fancy |
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| 13:16.42 | Wulf | dpkg: wgetpaste? |
| 13:16.42 | dpkg | wgetpaste is a CLI application for sending text to a pastebin, its only dependencies are bash and wget. To install and use: wget http://wgetpaste.zlin.dk/wgetpaste-2.17.tar.bz2 && tar xvjf wgetpaste-2.17.tar.bz2 && cd wgetpaste-2.17 You can then use it as ./wgetpaste; e.g. dmesg | ./wgetpaste It is also safe to copy to /usr/local/bin for easier use. |
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| 13:17.23 | Wulf | that link should be changed to https |
| 13:19.16 | ratrace | weird that wgetpaste is not in packages... |
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| 13:19.43 | ratrace | pastebinit is, and one can always use teh net meow. |
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| 13:23.36 | Janni | jelly: Thanks, I'll ask my colleague to do that. |
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| 13:52.04 | Haohmaru | this page looks recent-ish (it even mentions buster, altho it's written for stretch): https://stbuehler.de/blog/article/2017/06/28/debian_stretch__upgrade_32-bit_to_64-bit.html |
| 13:52.11 | Haohmaru | does it look gud? |
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| 13:52.36 | Haohmaru | altho it says i'm supposed to know what every command on there does or else the procedure is not for me |
| 13:52.37 | Haohmaru | :/ |
| 13:52.38 | greycat | !crossgrade |
| 13:52.38 | dpkg | Converting an i386 installation into an amd64 installation in-place is quite difficult. It's much easier to reinstall the system with the new architecture -- ask me about <install debian>. If you've got good backups, plenty of time and are feeling lucky, you can try https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading but really... good backups... |
| 13:53.04 | Haohmaru | hm.. what can happen? |
| 13:53.30 | greycat | The most obvious thing that could happen is that you screw up libc6 so badly that no dynamically linked programs can run, at all. |
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| 13:54.27 | Haohmaru | how about that script on the wiki page? |
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| 13:59.29 | Devastator | what is the proper way to reload sysctl.conf? sysctl -p? |
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| 14:04.56 | Devastator | hum, sysctl not found.. |
| 14:05.10 | Haohmaru | do you mean systemctl? |
| 14:05.24 | greycat | !buster su |
| 14:05.25 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To use the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 14:05.39 | DammitJim | man, I've always used su - |
| 14:05.47 | greycat | if that works for you, great |
| 14:06.47 | Devastator | hum |
| 14:06.50 | Devastator | let me try |
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| 14:07.07 | DammitJim | man, I was so embarrassed Saturday when I "found out" that I shouldn't be using netstat and should be using ss instead!!! |
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| 14:07.29 | Devastator | greycat thank you! works! |
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| 14:08.15 | Devastator | quick question: how often you guys do apt update/upgrade? |
| 14:08.21 | greycat | once a day |
| 14:08.48 | openface | 1 week |
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| 14:09.09 | Devastator | thank you |
| 14:09.14 | DammitJim | 1 a week |
| 14:10.02 | Haohmaru | when the mouse gets clogged with hair |
| 14:10.09 | Haohmaru | hides |
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| 14:11.13 | Haohmaru | wow, i guess i should thank my cat for my debian being up to date |
| 14:11.17 | jor | whatever the default setting is for unattended-upgrade :/ |
| 14:11.26 | fling | What is the alternative to porticron for debian? |
| 14:11.51 | fling | something which will apt-get update by cron and send a mail with updates and glsa-check ? |
| 14:12.24 | greycat | !unattended-upgrades |
| 14:12.24 | dpkg | unattended-upgrades is, like, a package for installing security upgrades automatically, unattended. See https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades |
| 14:13.02 | fling | but I don't want to install anything automatically |
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| 14:17.57 | Lope | hey guys I've got a debian container and want to run a persistent headless VNC X session inside it that has a VNC server. |
| 14:18.23 | Lope | So I tried this: vncserver :1 -geometry 1920x1080 -depth 16 -dpi 96 |
| 14:18.44 | Lope | But when I login to the VNC I see an error message window saying: Could not sync environment to dbus. |
| 14:19.13 | Lope | When I click OK the VNC session terminates. It also does not start a KDE plasma session, which I'd like to use. |
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| 15:00.01 | unborn | fling: you can write your self bash script and run it via cron as root however unattended upgs could turn very ugy.. just setup your cron with that bash on day when you not working (on production machines) so if anything go tits you can and have time to recover it. - unattended updates are like windows 10 (you never know what is happening and where and to what as it is running on background, don't be out of your mind, just do once a couple of months |
| 15:00.04 | unborn | apt update to check, pin packages you would like to freeze and update rest.. |
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| 15:02.24 | greycat | hold, not pin |
| 15:04.03 | unborn | pin or hold or perhaps lets call it freeze.. sorry greycat , to me it means same.. :) no offence please but you got me in the mind. |
| 15:04.42 | unborn | but you right even synaptic saying hold... so hold is correct |
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| 15:05.28 | JordiGH | Okay, so I found a way to consistently crash Firefox. |
| 15:05.32 | JordiGH | https://crash-stats.mozilla.org/report/index/1e2a91d4-e903-4745-acec-accd30191206 |
| 15:05.53 | JordiGH | I managed to do this even after deleting my ~/.mozilla dir. |
| 15:05.56 | JordiGH | Now what? |
| 15:06.07 | greycat | bug report? |
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| 15:06.32 | JordiGH | To Debian or Mozilla? |
| 15:06.44 | greycat | Debian, if it's Debian's package. |
| 15:06.54 | JordiGH | It is. Now, I wonder if anyone could repro this. |
| 15:07.08 | JordiGH | Like, Firefox is SUUUPPPERRR crashy for me on stable, and I don't get why I seem to be the only one complaining. |
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| 15:07.44 | JordiGH | greycat: Debian firefox bug reports are kind of a black hole, though, the package is too big for Debian maintainership. |
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| 15:08.03 | greycat | ok, then... try to reproduce in a mozilla.com build? |
| 15:08.20 | JordiGH | So anyway, my repro method involves Twitch chat (but any js-heavy page seems like it might work too). |
| 15:08.33 | JordiGH | You go into twitch chat, type a bunch of things, then hit backspace to delete it all. |
| 15:08.45 | fling | unborn: but I don't want to upgrade or install anything!! |
| 15:08.50 | JordiGH | Firefox eats a lot of CPU as you hold down backspace and eventually it crashes. |
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| 15:09.13 | unborn | fling: surely, apt update will just inform you what can be done.. |
| 15:09.14 | JordiGH | Might have to do the random typing + holding down backspace a few times. |
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| 15:09.23 | fling | unborn: exactly |
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| 15:09.47 | fling | unborn: bash: glsa-check: command not found |
| 15:09.51 | fling | is not there such thing? ^ |
| 15:09.52 | JordiGH | And how are none of you experiencing Firefox crashes on stable is what I want to know. |
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| 15:10.16 | Habbie | JordiGH, i've had 2 or 3 firefox crashes since march i think |
| 15:10.21 | Habbie | JordiGH, so nothing interesting |
| 15:10.32 | unborn | fling then just open terminal and type su, enter password and then see output.. if you wold like to run this via cron it its doable.. just tell the bash to put output of the command to txt file.. |
| 15:10.34 | JordiGH | Habbie: Would you mind trying my method? |
| 15:10.44 | JordiGH | Discord seems to work too. |
| 15:10.48 | Habbie | JordiGH, i'd be happy to try that later |
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| 15:12.02 | wasamasa | JordiGH: did you just say discord |
| 15:12.17 | JordiGH | wasamasa: Desperate times. |
| 15:12.23 | fling | try tox |
| 15:12.24 | wasamasa | I feel the same |
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| 15:12.46 | wasamasa | people calling themselves hackers and proudly using discord |
| 15:12.59 | fling | and creating servers |
| 15:13.01 | JordiGH | wasamasa: I had to talk to the Concourse devs and they only use fucking Discord. |
| 15:13.17 | unborn | wasamasa: I use only irc :D |
| 15:13.19 | JordiGH | Wesnoth too. |
| 15:13.25 | wasamasa | it doesn't help that the average discord user appears to be 13 years old |
| 15:13.35 | fling | JordiGH: you could probably wire bitlbee or pidgin to discord |
| 15:13.51 | Habbie | JordiGH, but, i don't have discord or twitch |
| 15:13.56 | JordiGH | Really? That would be sweet. |
| 15:13.57 | wasamasa | fling: it's not that easy |
| 15:14.07 | wasamasa | fling: you can write a bot, but the bot must be invited by the server owner |
| 15:14.10 | fling | I'm just saying, not tried it myself :P |
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| 15:14.27 | JordiGH | Habbie: Hm, it seems to work on any chat service where the thing does a lot of js processing looking for emojis as you type or something. Mastodon? |
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| 15:14.38 | JordiGH | But Mastodon got more efficient recently. |
| 15:14.51 | Habbie | i don't have mastodon |
| 15:15.00 | JordiGH | Well, that one's easier to acquire. |
| 15:15.07 | wasamasa | do it like JWZ and send each other emails every minute |
| 15:15.10 | Habbie | i'm not going to acquire anything |
| 15:15.26 | JordiGH | Do you talk to other people on the internet via some js-based chat anywhere? |
| 15:15.58 | Habbie | slack, rocketchat |
| 15:16.01 | JordiGH | So maybe that explains why I'm the only Debian user experiencing Firefox crashes: no other Debian user uses Firefox to talk to other people but me. |
| 15:16.06 | wasamasa | :D |
| 15:16.13 | Habbie | JordiGH, a likely theory :D |
| 15:16.22 | Habbie | JordiGH, so you say, enter a line of text, then just backspace it away? |
| 15:16.31 | JordiGH | Well, it has to be using a lot of js. |
| 15:16.42 | Habbie | right |
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| 15:16.50 | JordiGH | You have to see a CPU spike as the crappy chat system tries to interpret each and every keystroke to look for stuff to format. |
| 15:17.04 | unborn | JordiGH: I wrote once npm thingy which behaved as support live chat 1 to 1 from website directly to your irc - like an pm but left it.. too much to maintain and too much people around... |
| 15:17.05 | Habbie | ah, that's not something rocketchat does at all |
| 15:17.07 | Habbie | slack does that a bit |
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| 15:17.39 | Habbie | no cpu spikes on slack |
| 15:18.08 | JordiGH | wasamasa: Btw, I've met Twitch streamers who just stream their coding hours. |
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| 15:19.06 | tlatelolco | Hello. I have Debian 9.9 and I never can input ¨i or ^a as one character. It always dissociates them. Wether I am in Swiss French or in Bépo keyboard layout. Where does it come from, please? |
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| 15:20.24 | JordiGH | ¡2 de octubre! |
| 15:21.05 | JordiGH | tlatelolco: Does your keyboard layout use dead keys? |
| 15:21.46 | tlatelolco | Yes |
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| 15:23.20 | tlatelolco | I've just noticed that in a KDE app it works fine but not in Firefox, emacs, etc |
| 15:23.53 | JordiGH | Huh, a funny GTK keybinding theme, perhaps? |
| 15:24.28 | unborn | does anyone here use that snap thing? I have just simple question about snap |
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| 15:26.47 | JordiGH | I've used that snap thing. |
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| 15:26.56 | JordiGH | Even built a snap thing. |
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| 15:27.15 | JordiGH | And I guess it's a Debian package so we can talk about the snap thing. |
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| 15:31.22 | unborn | JordiGH: nah we are safe, all to talk about it, all I want to ask, do I am right that part of that snap thingy is closed source or appropriately called closed? the reason is it looks to me very nice and simple to have it running but somehow I do not trust packages from 3th party nor even partly closed sourced program.. its just I have been running stable long years however those snap packages does not explain anything closer to me.. and there is no |
| 15:31.22 | unborn | answer from packages maintainers nor from its own creators - called canonical or whatever they may be called. |
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| 15:32.04 | JordiGH | I think the only iffy thing about snap is that the distribution channel is Canonical-only. |
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| 15:32.09 | JordiGH | The package itself is in main. |
| 15:32.15 | JordiGH | But that's just the "client". |
| 15:32.22 | JordiGH | The server isn't free. |
| 15:32.26 | JordiGH | So you can't create your own snap repos. |
| 15:32.42 | JordiGH | You can only register your packages with Canonical's servers. |
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| 15:33.38 | unborn | JordiGH: understood.. however when you look at the code of the server - if you would have an chance it seems to me to be closed source.. |
| 15:33.58 | JordiGH | I didn't think the server code was distributed at all. |
| 15:34.13 | unborn | and I am asking as i am free from those kind of stuff for many years.. |
| 15:34.31 | JordiGH | So if they don't distribute the code at all, the question whether it's free or not is immaterial. |
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| 15:34.49 | JordiGH | I guess I misspoke when I said "the server isn't free". |
| 15:34.55 | JordiGH | It's simply not distributed at all. |
| 15:35.00 | unborn | ah I see.. JordiGH yes the question was if it was free and open source |
| 15:35.04 | JordiGH | Unless we're talking AGPLv3 distribution. |
| 15:35.12 | Habbie | is the snap server anything more than a webserver then? |
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| 15:35.58 | JordiGH | Habbie: It has a structure of sorts. I think you could reverse engineer the protocol and build your own snap server. |
| 15:36.06 | JordiGH | But I don't think anyone's bothered yet. |
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| 15:36.52 | JordiGH | unborn: I don't find open vs closed source a very meaningful distinction. And people often think it just means whether the code is visible or not. I'd rather talk about free vs non-free software. |
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| 15:38.26 | JordiGH | Like, the source could be visible but restricted. Is that "closed source"? |
| 15:38.47 | greycat | non-free open source |
| 15:39.09 | unborn | Habbie: we are talking about the process of creating the package - that magic - of course snap is or perhaps to my understanding must be closed source or partly closed source as they do not distribute it out now publish it out.. they just say, hey trust us and be happy.. which I had to ask here since this is open source community - since I do some code out and in, its all open source and its readable via git.. I guess its non free source like an open |
| 15:39.10 | unborn | source but not free.. |
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| 15:39.27 | unborn | just like greycat mentioned. |
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| 15:41.13 | unborn | - I wish long life to snaps - not even close to my debian installs - thanks for understanding the snap thingy on linux in depth |
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| 15:44.10 | JordiGH | greycat: Not sure if you're joking (in which case, I'm about to look like an ass), but supposedly restricted but visible source isn't open source, according to Bruce Perens (pbuh) but most people forget that "open source" is supposed to be a synynom for "free software". |
| 15:45.03 | greycat | "open source" means you can read the source code. That's all. It doesn't mean you're free to DO anything with the source code, like modify it, or distribut it. That's where the distinction between "free software" and "open source" comes in. |
| 15:46.41 | JordiGH | omg, really greycat? |
| 15:46.44 | JordiGH | You're not very grey at all. |
| 15:46.47 | JordiGH | Have you forgotten 1998? |
| 15:47.18 | unborn | read and you are free to change and make it better for your self perhaps I am wrong but once you do mention original source or creators you are free to share it out with anyone - perhaps I am wrong.. |
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| 15:47.59 | JordiGH | Like, c'mon, DFSG? Bruce Perens? Mozilla initial release? OSI initiative? The meme hustler? These are news to you, greycat? |
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| 15:48.43 | greycat | I'm not sure what particular beliefs you have that are driving you to say this. |
| 15:49.00 | JordiGH | Beliefs? I'm talking about what *happened*. Do you know what happened in 1998? |
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| 15:49.19 | JordiGH | Christine Peterson? C'mon, that's gotta ring a bell. |
| 15:49.23 | greycat | A bunch of companies started panicking and hiring a bunch of people to make sure they were "Y2K ready". That's one thing. |
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| 15:49.55 | unborn | JordiGH: its partly closed source and I can confirm this: Red Hat employee Adam Williamson, while acknowledging his own bias, has criticized snap for keeping the server side closed source,[20] not having a mechanism for using third party servers, and having to sign a contributor license agreement to contribute to its development. |
| 15:50.14 | JordiGH | unborn: Ah, I didn't realise they did distribute the server code. |
| 15:50.15 | Haohmaru | in 1998 iirc there was soccer world cup in france |
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| 15:50.39 | JordiGH | holy shit, okay, y'all need to do some reading: http://jordi.inversethought.com/blog/5-things-we-have-forgotten-about-open-source/ |
| 15:50.44 | unborn | its on its own wikipedia page.. greycat described very right and I just confirmed my question.. that magic is closed source |
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| 15:52.16 | unborn | basically snappy = trust the vendor and download package from whenever = like download and install .exe files.. man I hope so it will be gone before it will be popular |
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| 15:52.53 | kennoodle | hi evrey one |
| 15:53.04 | greycat | So you're saying that "Open Source"(R) is a trademarked term with a very specific meaning and that I'm using it wrong, because I'm using the meaning that the phrase ACTUALLY HAS among the human population of the Earth, instead of its trademarked legal definition. |
| 15:53.12 | greycat | That's acceptable as a source of confusion. |
| 15:53.15 | unborn | JordiGH: they use its own servers as 3th party which means - you know... |
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| 15:54.16 | EdePopede | i did a new install of 10.1 on the other pc. only really basic things. unchecked the 3 default selections from the installer. 200 something packages. then installed xorg and xterm. 'startx', works. nice. |
| 15:54.17 | JordiGH | greycat: I'm saying you forgot that the term was a marketing term coined in 1998. |
| 15:54.19 | EdePopede | now i was going for a wm. found just a handful on the 3 DVDs, decided to install awesome. did the usual 'apt-get -s install' to know *what* it would fetch. looked good, i did it. ended up with config errors, 3 packages missing: libxcb-xrm0, libxcb-xtest0, libxdg-basedir1. though all of them were in the list in the dry-run. so, what's the best way to fix it and how can this even happen? |
| 15:54.19 | unborn | thanks everyone. finally I can see snappy light years away from my systems |
| 15:54.27 | wasamasa | it is kind of funny to have this discussion in a debian channel |
| 15:54.31 | wasamasa | dfsg anyone? |
| 15:54.37 | JordiGH | greycat: And that they convinced you that the term was your own idea and the natural thing to call it: it's not. |
| 15:54.58 | greycat | I'm just telling you what the phrase means, to me, and I believe, to most other humans. |
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| 15:55.16 | greycat | Ultimately, that's how language works. The common consensus defines what things mean. |
| 15:55.22 | JordiGH | I'm not even sure most other humans believe that open source and visible source are synonyms. This is a frequent flamewar. |
| 15:55.26 | unborn | yah wasamasa LETS GET FOCUSED (sorry I just need to clarify this before any nasty shit installed on my system) |
| 15:55.49 | greycat | Can't be terribly frequent. I haven't heard anything about it in years. |
| 15:56.05 | JordiGH | greycat: And seriously, how old are you? I really thought you lived through 1998. You act like a crotchety old dude. |
| 15:56.12 | JordiGH | You should remember this stuff. |
| 15:56.17 | e | "don't you know what happened? really? <name> <name> <name? you need to read things!" is not a good look |
| 15:56.26 | wasamasa | unfortunately greycat is right, the occasional time I hear someone non-techy mention open source, they're quick on emphasizing that it's great because it doesn't cost them anything |
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| 15:56.37 | unborn | JordiGH I do believe that code is like language, if I not see, not read and not understand, than I am sorry I cannot help.. no one can |
| 15:56.43 | metbsd | how do i know i'm runing 10.2 or 10 |
| 15:56.49 | JordiGH | wasamasa: Yeah, so people think "open source" also means other things besides visible code, such as no price. |
| 15:56.51 | greycat | cat /etc/debian_version |
| 15:57.33 | metbsd | ok thanks |
| 15:57.35 | kennoodle | URGENT ->PLEASE TO MEET U, TELL DEBIAN TEAM TO LISTENING systemd-resolve.service ON ETHERNET/WIFI/DONGLE FROM localhost AND BUSY FROM EXTERN |
| 15:57.58 | unborn | oh flooding again? |
| 15:58.01 | e | pats Sigyn |
| 15:58.32 | JordiGH | e: I'm just surprised about greycat. I thought he was older. |
| 15:58.40 | greycat | I am older. |
| 15:58.46 | JordiGH | It's okay, young people don't know what a rotary phone is either. |
| 15:58.50 | greycat | Maybe I'm old enough not to give a crap about some of this stuff. |
| 15:58.58 | unborn | JordiGH: he is old :) |
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| 15:59.13 | JordiGH | So maybe he wasn't hacking on Linux in 1998. |
| 15:59.32 | JordiGH | Linus himself used a bunch of words to describe Linux before 1998 but never "open source". |
| 15:59.38 | greycat | Maybe you, and you alone, are caught up in this "frequent flamewar" that nobody else seems to see. |
| 15:59.42 | JordiGH | And the marketing thing was huge back then. Tim O'Reilly put a lot of money into it. |
| 15:59.43 | e | JordiGH: people can be old and not think what you think. you're sounding arrogant as heck right now. also, one can be aware of the OSI and their official definition and still not think it's what people normally mean by "open source" |
| 15:59.44 | unborn | and well respected, not just for his computing skills.. trust me greycat is great cat |
| 16:00.08 | JordiGH | e: everyone's been fooled by OSI to use their word without even knowing it. |
| 16:00.18 | JordiGH | And used it to mean something else now. |
| 16:00.19 | EdePopede | JordiGH: most people would consider themselves knowing how computers and internet works. usually that means they know they have to press the blue e (sry for the hl) on the screen to open it on their computer. (that's from an older interrogation, but the results should still be valid) |
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| 16:00.36 | e | well, get used to it; as someone else already mentioned, that's how language works |
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| 16:00.43 | e | terms have a life beyond their inventors |
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| 16:00.59 | JordiGH | And people *do* have this argument. I'm not the only one going around saying, "that's not what open source means". I can show you the arguments. |
| 16:01.04 | EdePopede | JordiGH: so "most people" isn't a base to argue, if you have to, go for "most people with a clue on that particular topic" |
| 16:01.21 | unborn | JordiGH: regards linux and linus.. as you said you should do beeper research about it.. man this is well off topic, lets get focus on debian guys shall we? |
| 16:01.37 | EdePopede | here! support request! |
| 16:01.47 | EdePopede | up there! *pointing up* |
| 16:02.29 | jelly | can be get back to tech support? For semantics and semiotics there's ##English, for arguments #debian-offtopic, and I don't even see the question any more |
| 16:02.31 | unborn | EdePopede: I have no eyes so you have to slap me or poke JordiGH eyes or perhaps some elses ;) |
| 16:03.00 | unborn | EdePopede: shoot it out.. how we can help you |
| 16:03.09 | EdePopede | i did a new install of 10.1 on the other pc. only really basic things. unchecked the 3 default selections from the installer. 200 something packages. then installed xorg and xterm. 'startx', works. nice. |
| 16:03.11 | EdePopede | now i was going for a wm. found just a handful on the 3 DVDs, decided to install awesome. did the usual 'apt-get -s install' to know *what* it would fetch. looked good, i did it. ended up with config errors, 3 packages missing: libxcb-xrm0, libxcb-xtest0, libxdg-basedir1. though all of them were in the list in the dry-run. so, what's the best way to fix it and how can this even happen? |
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| 16:03.53 | greycat | ,v libxcb-xrm0 |
| 16:03.54 | judd | Package: libxcb-xrm0 on amd64 -- stretch: 1.0-2; bullseye: 1.0-3; buster: 1.0-3; sid: 1.0-3 |
| 16:03.56 | EdePopede | maybe i could just go on with installing them manually, but i'd like to get an answer about the why and how, before i change the system state |
| 16:04.01 | greycat | EdePopede: fix your sources.list |
| 16:04.14 | unborn | EdePopede: first of all you can adopt apt install...command but I think you looking for libxcb-xrm0 |
| 16:04.15 | Haohmaru | you know the cat is old when it's grey |
| 16:04.16 | EdePopede | greycat: the 3 DVDs. nothing else. |
| 16:04.18 | jelly | EdePopede: can you pastebin actual output of -s and the failing non -s command? |
| 16:04.28 | unborn | man I am too slow to reply :/ |
| 16:04.33 | moistmoskito | EdePopede: on another note awesome is awesome |
| 16:04.34 | JordiGH | e: Seeing how the history of open source is the DFSG, though... |
| 16:04.54 | EdePopede | jelly: i could, but it would take some time. only have an external disk atm to move it to this pc ;) |
| 16:05.12 | greycat | EdePopede: I don't know or care what's on these physical media. Just add a networked source. |
| 16:05.16 | jelly | EdePopede: screenshots are allowed if it's very hard to get text out |
| 16:05.44 | EdePopede | jelly: hardly possible without a cam ;) |
| 16:06.01 | unborn | screenshot man |
| 16:06.06 | jelly | but yes, if you have internet access the sanest thing to do is add a valid http repo source |
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| 16:07.05 | EdePopede | oh, i just see.. die DVD image is still mounted. installed packages from #1 first, then asked for #3. auto-unmounted #1 before this. i thought this would also happen with this one now that it ... somehow finished |
| 16:07.37 | EdePopede | jelly: here yes, there no. remember the old dos days. a pc. a user. in a room. :) |
| 16:07.51 | greycat | A 1200 baud modem. |
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| 16:08.24 | EdePopede | sometimes i really miss its sound. |
| 16:08.30 | greycat | An integrated terminal emulator / serial port program, a la "minicom". |
| 16:08.48 | unborn | and cigarettes and infinite coffee cup.. what a lovely days.. oh that modem noises - I miss it a bit.. sunny and happy days |
| 16:08.55 | jelly | EdePopede: most users have tiny computers with embedded cameras in their pocketses now |
| 16:09.19 | *** mode/#debian [+o jelly] by ChanServ |
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| 16:10.01 | EdePopede | jelly: not here. all i ever had was an old nokia (iirc) for some years, found out i don't really need it. didn't have a camera anyway, but T9 and MMS!!! |
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| 16:10.42 | EdePopede | that is, i do have a cam somewhere, but hell knows its position right now... should have bought some of these RFID tags years ago |
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| 16:11.15 | *** mode/#debian [-o jelly] by ChanServ |
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| 16:18.12 | EdePopede | uh, what's that now? attached the external HDD in its USB box to this PC and just in that moment i lost the sound in the video playing here. (mplayer, pulseaudio). had to plug out and in again the cable, then it was back. in PA's Output Devices tab i only had something digital left, now it shows Line Out and Headphones again. |
| 16:18.25 | EdePopede | so, now i'll prepare the paste |
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| 16:20.18 | jelly | !bat |
| 16:20.18 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
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| 16:20.35 | Haohmaru | aww teh scary bat |
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| 16:27.56 | JordiGH | Why is that called bat? |
| 16:28.03 | JordiGH | ... a cluebat? |
| 16:28.15 | jelly | dpkg, literal bat |
| 16:28.16 | dpkg | "bat" is "<reply> see basic apt-get troubleshooting" |
| 16:28.16 | greycat | !basic apt troubleshooting |
| 16:28.31 | greycat | 11:28 <-dpkg[~dpkg@unaffiliated/dpkg] You already asked me something 1 seconds ago. |
| 16:28.34 | greycat | I did not :( |
| 16:29.03 | Haohmaru | i was thinking it might mean "in this situation, when they don't cooperate much - hit them with teh bat!" |
| 16:29.29 | unborn | Haohmaru: I do not think so, EdePopede have problem and to best understanding here jelly did some forensics around not to scare the person but to understand better what happen to him as that user was very specific and have quiet know-how.. there is no scary bat in debian, debian is awesome and the door to future |
| 16:29.32 | p8m | "1 seconds ago" <- lazy programmers lol |
| 16:29.34 | JordiGH | lol |
| 16:30.02 | moistmoskito | so 1 seconds ago meaning 1 of ( x seconds ) |
| 16:30.23 | Haohmaru | i'm slightly less lazy and type "second(s)" |
| 16:30.24 | Haohmaru | ;P~ |
| 16:30.30 | JordiGH | p8m: It gets even worse in languages where you have duals and other numerical inflections besides singular and plural. |
| 16:30.34 | moistmoskito | could be 2... could be 400billion |
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| 16:30.51 | greycat | Lazy beta testers, criticizing the English grammar instead of the fact that it claimed I had asked something 1 second ago, when I didn't. |
| 16:31.12 | unborn | :D |
| 16:31.15 | moistmoskito | greycat: my statement covers your issue |
| 16:31.22 | EdePopede | uh, the line in history.log is 5090c long, is it really needed? :D |
| 16:31.47 | greycat | *jelly* did, and it maybe reused a generic message meaning "I'm getting too many requests" |
| 16:32.11 | moistmoskito | well... try it again |
| 16:32.16 | greycat | no point now |
| 16:32.20 | unborn | guys back to the topic please, no one wants to see jelly rise up his heavy fingers - again |
| 16:32.50 | greycat | The only topic I saw was JordiGH asking why it's named "bat", and we were answering it. |
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| 16:33.59 | Haohmaru | greycat tbh i kinda wanted to know what bat means but didn't want to ask directly |
| 16:34.00 | Haohmaru | ;P~ |
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| 16:34.20 | Haohmaru | cuz i woz suspecting it might have to do something like "hit dem with da bat" |
| 16:34.36 | unborn | greycat: if I wouldnt know you I would say - its not debian since you are my mentor regards bash and I love you whatever you might say man |
| 16:34.42 | Haohmaru | couldn't come up with anything better |
| 16:34.56 | unborn | but youre always right greycat |
| 16:34.59 | Haohmaru | aww |
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| 16:35.27 | jelly | EdePopede: provide as much as you can of the three points |
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| 16:36.35 | greycat | dpkg basic apt-get troubleshooting =~ s/In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we/[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we/ |
| 16:36.35 | dpkg | greycat: OK |
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| 16:38.25 | EdePopede | so here it is http://paste.debian.net/1119820/ |
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| 16:39.05 | jelly | !localized errors |
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| 16:39.05 | dpkg | To provide command output in English instead of your native language, set your locale to an English one (e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. "LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install". |
| 16:39.08 | EdePopede | bats are fantastic creatures btw, no need to misuse them :P |
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| 16:39.44 | Haohmaru | they ratz with wingz |
| 16:39.48 | jelly | EdePopede: de snipped thingen might be relevant, ja? |
| 16:40.09 | EdePopede | jelly: well, usually i want english as language for root, localized only on the desktop |
| 16:40.41 | Haohmaru | i panic when i see computers localized to my native language |
| 16:41.11 | EdePopede | only i don't get the chance for this setup during install, i want my localized timezone and keyboard |
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| 16:42.09 | jelly | EdePopede: do "LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install" |
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| 16:45.27 | EdePopede | jelly: says it would install those 3 packages. but reports 6 others as not being needed anymore. strange. |
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| 16:48.54 | jelly | the checke for packages that are "not needed any more" are done every time, and do not affect other state. |
| 16:48.58 | jelly | checks* |
| 16:49.04 | EdePopede | jelly: installed the 3, finished setup of awsome. incl. update-alternatives. they were on DVD-2 which i was not even asked to insert when i did the install |
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| 16:49.56 | jelly | I honestly can't say whether you missed a step somewhere or whether the cdrom sources management might be buggy |
| 16:50.22 | jelly | has a local mirror close nearby to get extra packages from |
| 16:51.13 | Haohmaru | u cheat0r |
| 16:51.35 | EdePopede | what step? all i did is 'apt-get install' and inserted (and mounted) the DVDs as it was asking. 1 first, then 3. with the wrong DVD on the mountpoint (asking for #2, i mount #3) i'm pretty sure it would lament. going to test this later, still missing a display manager. |
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| 16:52.27 | greycat | You only scanned *two* of the physical media to be added as apt-sources? And the stuff that it was missing was on the other one, which was not scanned? |
| 16:53.00 | EdePopede | that's the plan for that machine too. want to have a usable environment first, then fire up jigdo here and move them to the other machine. building up an isolated mirror. with what method ever, will have to look for it later |
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| 16:53.36 | EdePopede | i scanned *three* as you can see from cdrom.list and sources.list |
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| 16:53.59 | greycat | 11:51 EdePopede> 1 first, then 3. |
| 16:54.16 | EdePopede | > inserted (and mounted) the DVDs as it was asking. 1 first, then 3. |
| 16:54.28 | EdePopede | i see no reason to insert #2 when it's asking for #3 |
| 16:54.30 | greycat | So you never scanned disk 2? It never ASKED for disk 2? |
| 16:54.49 | EdePopede | > all i did is 'apt-get install' and inserted (and mounted) the DVDs as it was asking. |
| 16:54.54 | greycat | ... |
| 16:55.08 | EdePopede | so if i install something obscure from #10 i have to mount ALL of them from 1 to 10? |
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| 16:55.18 | EdePopede | because that's just what you're suggesting |
| 16:55.22 | greycat | I am trying to find out what HAPPENED. |
| 16:55.31 | greycat | Did it NOT ASK FOR DISK 2? |
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| 16:55.54 | EdePopede | i wrote it here already and have it also at the beginning of my paste |
| 16:56.01 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 16:56.06 | EdePopede | NO IT DID NOT ASK FOR DISK 2 |
| 16:56.15 | EdePopede | no matter how hard you want to believe this |
| 16:56.24 | EdePopede | blopking trolls, love this .... |
| 16:56.34 | EdePopede | plonking actually |
| 16:57.35 | EdePopede | so it seems debian's dvd management is broken |
| 16:58.01 | jelly | I imagine that code does not get exercised too much these days |
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| 16:58.49 | EdePopede | wondering if the order is relevant. would have expected it adds them to sources.list the other way, starting with 1. |
| 17:00.36 | EdePopede | how do i find out from which dvd a package comes from without looking into the lists? the usual method to look for sources? |
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| 17:01.09 | EdePopede | (and i didn't TIAS already, because i can't remember that one right now) |
| 17:01.20 | Habbie | EdePopede, i don't know but my first try would be 'apt-cache policy pkgname' |
| 17:01.32 | EdePopede | Habbie: thanks, that was it :) |
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| 17:02.09 | EdePopede | awesome is on #3, the others as i've just seen, on #2 |
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| 17:03.02 | Habbie | EdePopede, oh cool :) i love lucky guesses |
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| 17:03.27 | EdePopede | Habbie: that's how the world works most of the time *g* |
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| 17:04.24 | Habbie | :) |
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| 17:05.53 | EdePopede | i hate it. F-keys have an offset of 2 in mc on the terminal, in xterm (X in general i guess) i have a US keyboard. |
| 17:07.37 | jhutchins_wk | Maybe it did not ask for disk 2 because there was nothing on 2 it needed. |
| 17:10.51 | EdePopede | jhutchins: nothing but the 3 which were missing at the end and only entered the system after "apt-get -f" |
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| 17:11.40 | EdePopede | looking for something usable on DVD-3 now with dependencies on #2 (or maybe #1, shouldn't make a difference) |
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| 17:12.22 | nvz | EdePopede: is this a fresh install done entirely from offline media? |
| 17:12.29 | EdePopede | is there a special tag for display managers? |
| 17:13.10 | EdePopede | nvz: whiteroom as it can bee. zero'ed disc, everything (but the installer ofc) else removed. |
| 17:13.21 | EdePopede | or was it cleanroom |
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| 17:14.27 | nvz | EdePopede: have you ever pulled anything from this disc 2 since it was installed? |
| 17:14.46 | nvz | or while it was being installed for that matter |
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| 17:15.12 | EdePopede | nvz: nope, was the 1st time now. only had mc, Xorg, xterm so far (including dependencies) |
| 17:15.39 | EdePopede | can't remember if i was asked before for dvd-2, but pretty sure i was not |
| 17:15.39 | kawfee | Any one seen Rahul? |
| 17:15.55 | nvz | kawfee: not in over 15 years, no.. |
| 17:16.01 | kawfee | crap |
| 17:16.07 | kawfee | I've seen him since then. |
| 17:16.14 | nvz | kawfee: unless going by another name.. idk |
| 17:16.16 | kawfee | He's not answering text messages. |
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| 17:16.44 | kawfee | Hard to believe it's been that long. Geez |
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| 17:17.09 | nvz | heh.. idk how long it has been exactly but its been a long time since I recall seeing rahul around here |
| 17:17.09 | EdePopede | 15 years? and i nearly got killed for asking about hamm, which i used maybe only 20 years ago... |
| 17:17.47 | nvz | dpkg, seen rahul? |
| 17:17.47 | dpkg | i haven't seen 'rahul', nvz |
| 17:18.29 | nvz | kawfee: *shrug* nickserv has seen him 8w ago.. |
| 17:18.39 | kawfee | ahhh |
| 17:19.22 | kawfee | It's been more than 10 years for me. This place was bad for my health. |
| 17:19.44 | warsoul | when booting the pc |
| 17:19.47 | warsoul | an error pop |
| 17:19.51 | warsoul | how can i check it? |
| 17:19.55 | kawfee | Pop goes the error. |
| 17:20.01 | nvz | kawfee: I welcome you to #debian-offtopic to b.s. if you like, we still do support here believe it or not.. |
| 17:20.06 | warsoul | it was something with hardware and kernel |
| 17:20.20 | Habbie | warsoul, any chance you can get a photo or a video? |
| 17:20.28 | warsoul | Habbie, no |
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| 17:20.42 | kawfee | nvz, Glad to hear that. |
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| 17:23.29 | pie3 | any python expert? |
| 17:23.38 | nvz | pie3: sure, in #python |
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| 17:24.12 | foxdie99 | :connect irc.hackin.org |
| 17:24.19 | nvz | if its highly debian related, just ask the question, otherwise you should prob ask in #python |
| 17:24.32 | petn-randall | passes a / and a t to foxdie99. |
| 17:25.15 | nvz | petn-randall: whats the t for? :P |
| 17:25.45 | petn-randall | nvz: It's likely irc.hackint.org. |
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| 17:28.46 | nvz | ah, never heard of it |
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| 17:42.17 | pie3 | is it possible to share your debian related knowledge in a single script/program? |
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| 17:44.04 | Stx | You could share it in a single document. |
| 17:44.24 | warsoul | if im logged in as root how can i see all the process on my server? |
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| 17:44.41 | Stx | warsoul: ps aux is a good start |
| 17:44.51 | Stx | warsoul: but "man ps" is even better, to see all the switches it can take. |
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| 17:47.54 | warsoul | Stx, a friend is running some bots on my server |
| 17:47.56 | warsoul | but i dont see them |
| 17:49.23 | FuzzyByte | People with friends like this one don't need enemies. |
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| 17:49.45 | Stx | warsoul: either they are not running, or you got a rootkit installed which changed the "ps" binary, or you simply arent seeing it. Try ps -u <his user> to get some more filtered/specific output |
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| 17:53.03 | warsoul | nothing |
| 17:53.10 | warsoul | Stx, i think he did another user |
| 17:53.17 | warsoul | i gave him root access |
| 17:54.03 | Stx | warsoul: "ps aux" should have revealed it, if you ran the command as root. |
| 17:54.18 | hummingbee | maybe node is running them |
| 17:54.20 | Stx | So its probably not running, or, your "ps"-binary has been changed and made to hide it. |
| 17:54.36 | Stx | Unless its running in some sort of VM/Jail.. |
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| 17:55.12 | warsoul | Stx how can i find out |
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| 17:57.15 | Stx | warsoul: Good question, guess there are plenty of answers.. |
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| 17:58.12 | SerajewelKS | if you gave him root then the best course of action would be to reinstall from scratch |
| 17:58.18 | SerajewelKS | he could have done anything and hidden stuff anywhere |
| 17:58.32 | SerajewelKS | if you know he is running these bots then you effectively have a root-compromised server |
| 17:58.54 | warsoul | yeah |
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| 17:59.28 | Stx | warsoul: I dont know every process name for the VMs, but if you see something about "qemu" or "virt/virtd" or "docker" in the output from "ps aux" there is probably a container/VM running and those processes wouldnt be shown from the "ps aux" |
| 17:59.47 | Stx | Im with SerajewelKS. |
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| 17:59.58 | SerajewelKS | Stx: processes in containers are shown from the host |
| 18:00.08 | Stx | Unless you trust this guy, you should re-install. Noone needs root except the Administrator. |
| 18:00.09 | SerajewelKS | (but not from other containers) |
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| 18:00.58 | warsoul | reinstalling now |
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| 18:01.30 | SerajewelKS | if he "needs root" you could give him a VM on your system where he has root |
| 18:01.44 | SerajewelKS | or (less ideal) a container where he's running as effective root in the container only |
| 18:01.50 | Stx | SerajewelKS: running kvm + installed OS (Windows) doesnt reveal the active processes in the "ps aux" output on the hypervisor.... |
| 18:02.01 | SerajewelKS | Stx: that's not a container, that's a VM |
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| 18:02.17 | SerajewelKS | Stx: containerized processes (docker) are shown on the host |
| 18:02.18 | jhutchins_wk | netstat might show something interesting. |
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| 18:02.25 | Stx | SerajewelKS: I used VM/container. |
| 18:02.49 | SerajewelKS | Stx: right, i was correcting only the container part of that statement: "there is probably a container/VM running and those processes wouldnt be shown from the "ps aux"" |
| 18:02.56 | SerajewelKS | Stx: you were right about VMs but not about containers |
| 18:03.52 | Stx | Thanks for the clarification. |
| 18:03.58 | SerajewelKS | np |
| 18:04.11 | SerajewelKS | i was about to double check but then i remembered our wordpress servers showing dozens of apache processes :) |
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| 18:08.01 | warsoul | done |
| 18:08.03 | warsoul | bots down lol |
| 18:11.11 | cheapie | Huh, I guess I no longer need to get around to troubleshooting the slow boot issues on my laptop, as one of the recent updates fixed it :P |
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| 18:12.30 | cheapie | No idea what the problem actually *was* (aside from that it seems to only happen with 4Kn boot drives and involved that local-block script running like 30 times before it booted), but at any rate, it works properly now. |
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| 18:13.23 | jelly | where do you get a 4Kn model really |
| 18:13.46 | jelly | I thought those would be just for enterprise crap |
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| 18:14.33 | cheapie | jelly: It's a switchable model (can do 512e or 4Kn), figured I'd switch it to 4Kn to see how well it worked. |
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| 18:15.02 | cheapie | I think it's a WD "SN520" SSD or something like that. Came with the laptop. |
| 18:15.06 | warsoul | how do i add a sudo user |
| 18:15.07 | warsoul | > |
| 18:15.08 | warsoul | ? |
| 18:15.33 | greycat | To enable a user to use sudo for *Any* command, put them in the "sudo" group. |
| 18:15.34 | Boohbah | warsoul: visudo as root |
| 18:15.47 | greycat | you don't have to edit sudoers, or run visudo |
| 18:15.49 | jelly | warsoul: on debian the simplese thing to do is add the user to the sudo group, "adduser usernamehere sudo", and they they have to log off and log in again |
| 18:15.55 | greycat | unless you only want them to be able to sudo *some* commands |
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| 18:15.59 | Boohbah | Sorry I am wrong, sudo group already in the config. |
| 18:16.25 | jelly | oh, "sudo" package has to be installed before that |
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| 18:17.11 | cheapie | jelly: FWIW, Debian does seem to handle booting from a 4Kn drive fine, at least now after whatever recent updates landed in testing, everything seems 100% working, and the drive is actually turning out slightly higher performance numbers than the specs claim now. |
| 18:18.04 | cheapie | I mean, not *much* higher - this isn't some magic "this one command doubles your SSD speed!" thing, but it is at least a marginal improvement over 512e mode. |
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| 18:25.47 | Hydr0p0nX | safe to assume someone has seen this ? https://seclists.org/oss-sec/2019/q4/122 |
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| 18:26.51 | jelly | oss-sec is an open mailing list, so yes, someone has seen it |
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| 18:27.42 | annadane | yeah this is fairly well publicized but feel free to tell the debian security team about it |
| 18:27.52 | annadane | i suppose there's a remote chance they aren't aware but i doubt it |
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| 18:28.28 | jelly | there's pretty much zero chance they or the kernel team would not be aware |
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| 18:29.19 | jelly | dpkg: cve lookup CVE-2019-14899 |
| 18:29.19 | dpkg | Information about the security advisory CVE-2019-14899 may be found at https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2019-14899 |
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| 18:40.45 | tom_work | What does this have to do with systemd? |
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| 18:41.24 | tom_work | Also, note that OpenBSD modulates it's packet IDs and can even do that to natted traffic |
| 18:41.40 | tom_work | perhaps A similar approach could be taken to fix this here |
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| 18:46.02 | wernstrom | tom_work, I'm not sure what it has to do with systemd other than some change to a kernel configuration value was put in at the time the vuln came about, I suppose the diligent tester would revert that change and see if the problem was still reproducible? |
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| 18:47.23 | tom_work | Can you? systemd forces a lot of kernel parameters a certain way. I know because I build custom kernels a lot and if it's running systemd there's a very special way systemd needs the .config |
| 18:47.31 | Habbie | that is the only thing it has to do with systemd |
| 18:47.37 | Habbie | systemd changed the default for the rp_filter parameter |
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| 18:48.28 | Sleaker | hmm I'm trying to find the java header for jni_md.h in j11 on x64 but there's no jvm/include directory in openjdk-11 anymore? |
| 18:48.46 | Habbie | openjdk-11-jdk-headless: /usr/lib/jvm/java-11-openjdk-amd64/include/linux/jni_md.h |
| 18:48.56 | Habbie | that's for buster |
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| 18:50.10 | Sleaker | oh I'm an idiot, only have the jre installed |
| 18:50.46 | Sleaker | alright back to seeing if I can get jsvc to compile |
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| 18:55.10 | nyov | Whats the status of opendkim in debian? I've seen it said that upstream is dead? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/54609917/opendkim-error-key-retrieval-failed-when-long-dkim-keys-are-used |
| 18:55.44 | nyov | Is the debian package fixing such bugs, or should I look for an alternative? |
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| 18:57.42 | NetTerminalGene | two days passed since last firefox release but there is still no update >.< |
| 18:57.57 | NetTerminalGene | debian dropped quality? |
| 18:58.05 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 18:58.45 | Miles8of9 | i need to write the first debian iso file to an usb pendrive, i'm doing it with Rufus and it asks me if i want to write it in "iso" or in "dd" mode... what should i choose? it's an .iso file so... iso.. ? |
| 18:58.51 | Sleaker | ,firefox-esr |
| 18:58.56 | Habbie | ,v firefox-esr |
| 18:58.57 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch: 60.7.1esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 60.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 68.2.0esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-security: 68.2.0esr-1~deb9u2; buster: 68.2.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 68.2.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 68.2.0esr-1+b1; sid: 68.3.0esr-1 |
| 18:58.59 | nvz | Miles8of9: NO, do NOT use rufus |
| 18:59.13 | Miles8of9 | uhh.. why? |
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| 18:59.30 | nvz | Miles8of9: uhh because the debian documention specifically says not to, and to use w32diskimager |
| 18:59.34 | nvz | !rufus |
| 18:59.34 | dpkg | rufus is a tool that can be used to make bootable USB devices under Windows. It is not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>. |
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| 18:59.53 | sponix | nvz: tool from etcher.io does well :) |
| 19:00.34 | nvz | Miles8of9: our images are not normal cd images, they are hybrid images, they are already ready to be written directly to any media.. so tools like unetbootin and rufus just mangle them up and cause unsupportable issues |
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| 19:01.22 | Sleaker | NetTerminalGene: looks like the latest v is already in sid.. so it's being looked at? |
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| 19:01.55 | NetTerminalGene | Sleaker, they should look at faster |
| 19:03.27 | nvz | Miles8of9: if you're stubborn or have no other choice, the dd mode sounds closer but I have no idea what rufus does and most of us here dont.. all we know is the release notes say specifically not to use it.. so we're not gonna be able to support any issues you have with the installer |
| 19:04.37 | Sleaker | NetTerminalGene: if you need it immediately you can always just go to sid or just install directly from mozilla... |
| 19:04.50 | NetTerminalGene | no |
| 19:04.52 | rainfyre | Miles8of9: it's really straightforward to just use the dd command to make your bootable iso |
| 19:05.19 | Miles8of9 | rainfyre, have no linux machine to use dd |
| 19:05.25 | nvz | rainfyre: no.. first of all only cp is required, secondly if someone is using rufus chances are they're on windows an have no dd command |
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| 19:05.38 | rainfyre | Miles8of9: I'm sorry, didn't put that together |
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| 19:07.02 | jelly | !win32diskimager |
| 19:07.02 | dpkg | win32diskimager is much more reliable than <unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/ . Adjust the file mask from *.img to *.* if it doesn't show Debian .iso images. See <usb install> and <install debian> for further details. |
| 19:07.10 | rainfyre | nvz: interesting, didn't know that cp would work all by itself :) I've always used dd |
| 19:07.11 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: Using the unoffical debian installer with non-free firmware included can save a lot of non-free firmware hassle. |
| 19:07.16 | karlpinc | !firmware images |
| 19:07.17 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
| 19:07.37 | nvz | rainfyre: the images are hybrid images.. nothing special is required anymore.. cp debian.iso /dev/sdc or such works fine |
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| 19:08.02 | rainfyre | that is awesome |
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| 19:08.27 | karlpinc | nvz: One wonders if MS Windows powershell cp would work. Probably not or that would be recommended. |
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| 19:09.12 | jhutchins_wk | karlpinc: Windows approach to hardware is a very different model. |
| 19:09.19 | nvz | karlpinc: does powershell have some means of writing directly to a device? afaik windows never had any sort of block layer or device filesystem or such like linux does |
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| 19:10.11 | karlpinc | nvz: I've not done anything serious with MS Windows since XP was released. |
| 19:10.19 | Miles8of9 | karlpinc, i thought that was a cd full of firmwares for everything and not an entire system :D |
| 19:10.29 | nvz | karlpinc: me either.. thats why I dont support it anymore :P |
| 19:11.17 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: The netinstall contains what you need to download a complete system, plus the unoffical netinstall contains the non-free firmware you might need. The offical installer requires you manually download your own non-free firmware. |
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| 19:11.52 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: By using the netinstall you download only what you need. If you download a DVD image (or whatever) you'll wind up downloading a lot that does not get installed. |
| 19:12.35 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: The installer downloads what it needs as it runs. |
| 19:12.46 | Miles8of9 | non free firmware means drivers for radeon cards, atheros wifi chips etc? |
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| 19:13.31 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: Yes. Or stuff like that. I forget. If you want your hardware to work you often need non-free firmware. |
| 19:13.35 | wernstrom | the powershell question is a "maybe" seems convoluted though: https://winaero.com/blog/powershell-windows-10-bootable-usb/ |
| 19:13.48 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: Not "drivers". "Firmware". |
| 19:13.57 | karlpinc | !firmware |
| 19:13.57 | dpkg | Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. http://wiki.debian.org/Firmware |
| 19:13.57 | Miles8of9 | ok |
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| 19:16.22 | Miles8of9 | firmware as i know it is a piece of software that is written inside eprom chips and ok.. does it mean that linux overwrites that eprom on every boot? Oo |
| 19:16.22 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: The kernel will still need its drivers to run the hardware, some of which may also be in the non-free section, etc. But it is eaiser to install the right driver after the installer finishes than find and install the right firmware. Sometimes you have a choice of drivers. Not true of firmware. |
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| 19:16.56 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: The firmware in the eprom can be old/buggy. |
| 19:18.09 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: These days the os can be responsible for firmware loading, or initialization or I don't know what. I haven't kept up. |
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| 19:19.11 | karlpinc | Executive summary: Hardware vendors suck. |
| 19:19.40 | Miles8of9 | one hard to answer question... video card is radeon hd 7640g + 7470m, processor is amd a8-4500m ... does linux support it? it's a bit old.. 2013 |
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| 19:20.10 | Miles8of9 | i'm looking around in xserver-xorg packages for these video cards |
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| 19:20.41 | Miles8of9 | https://packages.debian.org/it/buster/xserver-xorg-video-radeon |
| 19:20.48 | Miles8of9 | chips is not listed...! :| |
| 19:21.31 | Sleaker | Miles8of9: if you read the firmware wiki it explains how it can work. |
| 19:21.59 | Sleaker | some devices require the system to push firmware to the device for it to function at all. |
| 19:22.00 | jelly | Miles8of9: it's very likely supported. 7450 worked |
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| 19:22.41 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: Old is good. Old gives time to make it work. |
| 19:23.15 | jelly | Miles8of9: make sure firmware-amd-graphics is installed for full functionality |
| 19:23.17 | Miles8of9 | old means old drivers that after some time are discarded from new driver packages.. :| |
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| 19:23.49 | jelly | Miles8of9: sure but that's 1998 old not 2013 old |
| 19:24.08 | greycat | for the record I don't see 7640 in the pkg description of firmware-amd-graphics on buster |
| 19:24.10 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: Old drivers tend to remain supported nearly forever, unlike priprietary drivers where the manufacturer wants you to buy something new. |
| 19:24.31 | Miles8of9 | greycat, right...! that's why i was asking! |
| 19:25.28 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: Easiest is to try it and see. Maybe it works like an older card, only with some special extras that you might not miss. |
| 19:25.59 | greycat | the lack of an actual answer on https://askubuntu.com/questions/1032872/how-to-install-the-amd-graphic-card-driver is not encouraging, but who the hell knows |
| 19:26.07 | karlpinc | :( |
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| 19:26.40 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: Any onboard intel video? That always works for me. |
| 19:26.58 | karlpinc | does not do video really, so.... |
| 19:27.14 | Miles8of9 | it's an amd cpu... you won't find intel things |
| 19:30.26 | jelly | greycat: you won't see 7640G in description, but there 's > Radeon HD IGP 7500/7600 series |
| 19:30.34 | greycat | ok, cool |
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| 19:32.48 | jelly | and dmesg says "[ 2.516874] [drm] Loading ARUBA Microcode |
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| 19:33.19 | jelly | https://launchpadlibrarian.net/162051111/BootDmesg.txt # same APU |
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| 19:36.05 | jelly | (looking at that dmesg and my vague memorise of a HD 7450, I _think_ that one probably ought to boot and get framebuffer and 2d working even without firmware, and needs fw for 3d) |
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| 19:38.03 | brimestone | Hey guys, I'm trying to get smartctl output to broadcast out via SNMP.. is this possible? |
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| 19:38.42 | greycat | far as I know, SNMP doesn't broadcast... it listens for requests, and the client has to request the exact pieces of data that it wants to see |
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| 19:39.33 | wernstrom | that's my recollection as well, made monitoring fun when I was managing BigBrother |
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| 19:40.25 | wernstrom | brimestone, one of the first ddg hits was this: https://wiki.opennms.org/wiki/Smartctl |
| 19:40.35 | wernstrom | looks like it's possible |
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| 19:42.03 | jelly | I don't see anything in smartd or smartd.conf manuals about being able to send snmp traps |
| 19:42.11 | brimestone | Wrapping my head now |
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| 19:45.13 | jelly | brimestone: there are two options of collecting info via SNMP, 1) polling snmpd on remote systems or 2) making remote systems send traps |
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| 19:48.12 | jelly | that page seems to use the former, adding some OIDs to snmpd.conf via "extend" functionality. The way you phrased your questions kind of implies you want snmp traps instead |
| 19:48.15 | brimestone | I have a working monitoring SNMP dump via a server to my Zabbix/Grafana.. but I want to add smartctl data to the output of my server |
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| 19:51.19 | jelly | brimestone: if your monitoring system actually does somthing like a regular snmpwalk or snmpget from the machines you want to monitor, then that's option 1), you can put basically any command to be executed in an extend line in snmpd.conf, as that page says: |
| 19:51.23 | jelly | extend smart_health /bin/bash -c 'sudo /usr/local/bin/check_smart_disk.sh' |
| 19:52.02 | greycat | not sure what the point of the bash -c is, there |
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| 19:52.14 | greycat | looks like it's *already* being parsed by a shell |
| 19:52.26 | brimestone | @jelly thats what I'm trying to figure out.. I see a lot of mibs here /usr/share/snmp/mibs but im not sure which one is active |
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| 19:52.31 | jelly | greycat: it;'s not iirc |
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| 19:52.50 | greycat | so, "extend smart_health sudo /usr/local/bin/check_smart_disk.sh" wouldn't work for some reason? |
| 19:52.52 | jelly | brimestone: the extends are in their own group. You can test it like this: |
| 19:52.54 | jelly | snmpwalk -v2c -c "$community" servername NET-SNMP-EXTEND-MIB::nsExtendOutputFull.'"smart_health"' |
| 19:53.12 | jelly | (those quotes around doublequotes are important) |
| 19:53.48 | brimestone | run that on the server generating the snmp data correct? |
| 19:54.59 | jelly | brimestone: run that from wherever you can connect to snmpd |
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| 19:55.10 | jelly | typically the server already collecting snmp data |
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| 19:55.49 | jelly | if you need numeric OID use snmptranslate. |
| 19:55.53 | jelly | snmptranslate -On NET-SNMP-EXTEND-MIB::nsExtendOutputFull.'"smart_health"' |
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| 19:58.11 | brimestone | so I have to copy this https://raw.githubusercontent.com/opennms-config-modules/smartctl/master/snmp-extend/check_smart_disk.sh to all my server |
| 19:58.36 | WoC | is there some sort of config file for systemd to change the default "runlevel" ? - As with SysV; for graphical start up; 'init 5' and non grahpical startup; 'init 3' |
| 19:58.58 | somiaj | WoC: they are called targets, and you can use systemctl to set the default target. |
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| 19:59.42 | WoC | oh crap... so you cant set it so it stays that way over reboot? |
| 19:59.53 | jelly | brimestone: yes, and verify it works, first, probably |
| 19:59.58 | somiaj | WoC: so something like 'systemctl set-default multi-user.target' sets a non-graphical target |
| 19:59.59 | greycat | You can. set the default target to graphical.target or multi-user.target |
| 20:00.09 | somiaj | WoC: the default target presists over reboots |
| 20:00.21 | jelly | ,file check_smart_disk.sh |
| 20:00.27 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 20:00.36 | WoC | thanks, appreciated |
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| 20:02.45 | jelly | brimestone: and since debian does not run snmpd as root any more, you'll either have to use sudo like that, or generate statistics say from a root cron job, and only put a command like "/bin/cat /path/to/check_smart_disk_output.txt" in snmpd.conf |
| 20:03.21 | jelly | brimestone: if a command collecting stats takes long to run, it's better not to use it directly in snmpd.conf |
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| 20:04.00 | jelly | if your snmp collector is badly written it can delay getting other data from other machines |
| 20:04.12 | brimestone | @jelly im not sure im following all that.... I just finished wrapping my head around check_smart_disk.sh |
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| 20:05.31 | brimestone | Im just going thru https://wiki.opennms.org/wiki/Smartctl |
| 20:05.50 | jelly | brimestone: um, it's helpful if you have an idea of how snmp works. |
| 20:06.43 | brimestone | @jelly im trying to give my self a crash course right now |
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| 20:08.15 | jelly | that script might be problematic. I have a sata disk with 16 bad sectors in this machine and it returns "0" |
| 20:09.20 | jelly | also it runs smartctl on zram device |
| 20:09.22 | jelly | /usr/sbin/smartctl -n idle -H /dev/zram0 |
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| 20:12.02 | jelly | you will probably want to track more than just whether the devices says "health check PASSED" vs "health check FAILED", since you have zabbix, you can track temperature and number of pending and uncorrectable errors and warn when those change |
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| 20:12.14 | jelly | but you'll need to write your own scripts for that |
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| 20:30.11 | rileyd | I can't connect to my debian 10 server over IPv6. It has a link-local IPv6 address, but not a global IPv6 address, as shown by "ip a". I can connect to other servers over IPv6. I have ufw installed, but it is currently disabled while I'm testing this. What should I do? |
| 20:30.55 | rileyd | To test it I am simply using `nc -l -p 8080` on the server and `telnet <ip> 8080` on the client |
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| 20:31.29 | Dagger | you mean `telnet <ip>%<ifname> 8080` I hope, since you need to specify the interface to connect to a link-local address |
| 20:32.05 | rileyd | Dagger: i tried to get a global IP address but dhclient -6 hangs |
| 20:32.22 | rileyd | I know that my VPS provider supports IPv6 addresses |
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| 20:32.50 | Dagger | DHCPv6 isn't the only way to get addresses in v6 |
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| 20:33.21 | Dagger | try `rdisc6` and see if SLAAC is enabled, but a lot of VPSs just expect you to manually configure them (because heaven forbid things just work out of the box...) |
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| 20:33.39 | jhutchins_wk | rileyd: Do you actually have something listening on 8080? |
| 20:33.47 | rileyd | jhutchins_wk: yeah, netcat |
| 20:33.52 | greycat | 15:30 rileyd> To test it I am simply using `nc -l -p 8080` on the server |
| 20:34.31 | jhutchins_wk | I think I condensed that and thought he was using netcat as the client. |
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| 20:35.36 | rileyd | Dagger: `rdisc6 -1` ? |
| 20:35.50 | rileyd | oh, rdisc6 eth0 |
| 20:36.37 | rileyd | timed out :(. should i set up the ipv6 address in /etc/network/interfaces? |
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| 20:36.57 | Dagger | that's what you'll need to do |
| 20:37.03 | rileyd | thank you |
| 20:37.24 | Dagger | if you're not receiving any RAs you'd have to set the default route manually anyway, since that's the only way to automatically set a default route |
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| 20:37.55 | rileyd | how can i tell if i'm receiving router advertisements? is that what rdisc6 timing out means |
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| 20:38.34 | Dagger | rdisc6 would print them out if you were |
| 20:38.43 | rileyd | i see, thank you |
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| 20:45.43 | WoC | Any suggestions on how to set up my own repository ? I strive to populate it with local builds with cpu specific build using the main source repository. Or if there is a tool for that? given there is build farms for a number of cpus |
| 20:46.21 | rileyd | so i put "iface eth0 inet6 static\naddress ...\ngateway ..." in /etc/network/interfaces.d/10-ipv6.cfg, now how do i reload it? do i need to ifdown eth0 and ifup eth0 ? |
| 20:46.28 | WoC | Any suggestions would be very much appreciated |
| 20:46.44 | rileyd | substitute \n for physical \n and ... for values provided by my VPS provider |
| 20:47.23 | rileyd | do i need a netmask line? i wasn't given one |
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| 20:49.18 | tds | you can include that in the address line, eg "address 2001:db8::1/64" |
| 20:50.37 | WoC | he might only have one IPv6 ip if he wasn't provided a suffix/netmask |
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| 20:51.56 | Dagger | even if you have a netmask, you still only have one IP. the mask gives you the size of the networks, not the number of IPs you get from that network |
| 20:52.24 | whislock | All allocated IPv6 addresses will have a prefix length of /64, unless your provider is insane. |
| 20:52.26 | WoC | right, the subnet |
| 20:52.50 | WoC | unless he has a special provider who use /128 |
| 20:53.15 | whislock | That's possible, yeah. |
| 20:53.21 | brimestone | @jelly I've tweaked the script to expose "uncorrected errors". How do I include that output with the SNMP broadcast? |
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| 21:09.37 | rileyd | Dagger: thank you very much for the help. It works now! :D |
| 21:10.02 | nvz | WoC: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/Setup has a list of many different tools and their features |
| 21:13.57 | nvz | WoC: I doubt anyone has made software to both setup a repository and build from source.. those are two different things.. you'd need some sort of CI software to do the building |
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| 21:15.25 | WoC | CI software ? |
| 21:16.24 | nvz | Continuous Integration.. the bit that automatically builds sources and tests them |
| 21:16.37 | WoC | ah, ok |
| 21:16.46 | WoC | ty |
| 21:17.08 | nvz | building packages from source and making a respository are two different things.. open developers typically seperate tasks into different projects.. |
| 21:17.15 | nvz | what you are asking is two different things |
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| 21:17.55 | nvz | you might also consider joining the official network and a developer channel to ask about this sort of thing. |
| 21:19.21 | WoC | i would, if i could find it |
| 21:20.31 | nvz | WoC: irc.debian.org which points to irc.oftc.net either would get you in the right place.. I'm not sure which channel is most appropriate but #debian-mentors on that network would perhaps be a good place to start. |
| 21:20.58 | nvz | WoC: that channel is for "Support for new contributors with questions on packaging and Debian infrastructure projects/services. See also the debian-mentors mailing list." |
| 21:21.05 | nvz | and sounds to me like you |
| 21:21.18 | nvz | would like to better understand how debian packages are built automatically from source |
| 21:21.44 | nvz | I'm sure there is someone in there that could at the very least point you in the right direction on that |
| 21:21.58 | WoC | ok, great, ty |
| 21:22.36 | nvz | WoC: this used to be the official network and this is still the larger support channel for general debian questions but we are mostly just users helping users with general stuff.. the developers would know more about the kinds of things you want to do |
| 21:23.50 | WoC | well, fist, make ppc64 (PPC970/G5) specific builds with all the safe optimizing applied |
| 21:24.20 | WoC | hopefully aarch64 in the future as well |
| 21:25.07 | WoC | just waiting for the 64 bit arm powered workstations to go down in price to reasonable levels |
| 21:26.08 | greycat | dpkg, flw81 is <songbird@anthive.com> there is no issue to be worried about. this isn't a production system facing the wider world. |
| 21:26.10 | dpkg | greycat: okay |
| 21:27.56 | greycat | !flw |
| 21:27.56 | dpkg | < busboy> hello, will it causes any problem to delete root account on the system? |
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| 21:29.43 | annadane | no |
| 21:30.30 | rileyd | !help flw |
| 21:32.06 | ratrace | ?! |
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| 21:43.01 | uso | which va and vdpau driver packages are recommended to install for an intel 620 graphics? |
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| 21:45.35 | FleaFart | Why is time required when installing Debian; or why is internet required during the install, is it to get internet time? If so, does anyone know why time is important to the setup and configuration of Debian ? |
| 21:46.09 | greycat | well, for one thing, it determines whether the Apt package-list signatures are expired |
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| 21:46.51 | greycat | a more applicable response might be, why do YOU believe that you should try to prevent your system from knowing the correct date and time? |
| 21:47.25 | FleaFart | yes, but all the packages on a new dvd are matched with all the rest at the time of creating the dvd. so that doesn't explain why internet is require to install. |
| 21:47.35 | greycat | so yeah, trolling... |
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| 21:47.45 | FleaFart | no not trolling |
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| 21:47.49 | greycat | Joy. Like I needed more of that today. |
| 21:49.33 | FleaFart | if you see every question as a troll then please Don't reply to me. Sadly, my questions are to learn, what is wrong with that? |
| 21:49.45 | greycat | OK. |
| 21:50.53 | FleaFart | for anyone that wants to HELP, I have a system time ERROR saying that I am out of time, I can not remember were I seen the error and I would like to know how to fix. |
| 21:51.21 | FleaFart | NOT greycat |
| 21:51.46 | FleaFart | he is ignored and I wouldn't see he posts. |
| 21:51.58 | nkuttler | FleaFart: we don't need to know who you ignore, please move on |
| 21:52.45 | FleaFart | he just replied OK to ignoring me, I replied in kind. |
| 21:53.11 | annadane | ignores everybody |
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| 21:53.30 | greycat | If more days like today keep happening, I'll be ignoring close to everybody too. |
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| 22:10.15 | Miles8of9 | it looks like radeon hd 7640g is supported and has a working driver but it's for ubuntu 14.04..... https://www.amd.com/en/support/apu/amd-series-processors/amd-a8-series-apu-for-laptops/a8-4500m-radeon-hd-7640g |
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| 22:10.30 | Miles8of9 | should i install ubuntu 14.04 instead of debian? |
| 22:11.41 | nvz | Miles8of9: you still on windows? |
| 22:12.37 | Miles8of9 | yes... i've downloaded firmware iso and i'm ready tu write it to usb pendrive |
| 22:13.19 | nvz | Miles8of9: i'm not sure of modern windows.. but you could always pull up device manager go to properties and on one of the tabs find the pciid of a device listed |
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| 22:14.08 | nvz | Miles8of9: https://www.ccboot.com/upload/nicprop.jpg something like that |
| 22:14.23 | nvz | in that case it shows 8086:100f |
| 22:15.14 | nvz | Miles8of9: do you have some reason to think your video card won't work? ubuntu 14.04 is quite old.. |
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| 22:16.00 | Miles8of9 | i've read the list of supported chips and mine is not listed |
| 22:16.26 | nvz | idk what you've read but the pciid is needed to lookup support |
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| 22:19.06 | nvz | https://termbin.com/bvsp is the devices supported by the stock stretch kernel's radeon driver |
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| 22:19.24 | Miles8of9 | PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9903&SUBSYS_106B1043&REV_00 |
| 22:19.38 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: But why would you use stretch and not buster? |
| 22:19.45 | nvz | Miles8of9: and that one is listed |
| 22:20.10 | nvz | alias: pci:v00001002d00009903sv*sd*bc*sc*i* |
| 22:20.55 | nvz | ,pciid 1002:9903 |
| 22:20.56 | judd | [1002:9903] is 'Trinity [Radeon HD 7640G]' from 'Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'radeon' in stretch. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=1002:9903 and the out-of-tree 'snd-hda-intel' module. |
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| 22:21.30 | Miles8of9 | this one is the other chip: ven_1002&dev_6760 |
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| 22:22.06 | Miles8of9 | ,pciid 1002:6760 |
| 22:22.07 | judd | [1002:6760] is 'Seymour [Radeon HD 6400M/7400M Series]' from 'Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'radeon' in stretch. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=1002:6760 http://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary and the out-of-tree 'fglrx', 'snd-hda-intel' module. |
| 22:22.56 | Miles8of9 | ok! so i need to install stretch, not buster |
| 22:23.02 | nvz | Miles8of9: no.. |
| 22:23.18 | nvz | Miles8of9: judd's pciid lookup is just out of date.. there is no reason it wont work on buster |
| 22:23.30 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: No. The package xserver-xorg-video-radeon is in buster and will probably automatically be installed by the installer. If not, you can install it. |
| 22:24.23 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: (I did says it'd be easiest to just try installing and see if it works. :-) |
| 22:24.26 | nvz | both of those devices are aliased in the buster stock 4.19 kernel's radeon driver |
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| 22:25.01 | nvz | neither are new cards.. probably supported in every version of linux in the last 10 years |
| 22:26.08 | nvz | those are cards from like 2012 |
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| 22:26.24 | Miles8of9 | i need to also enable snd-hda-intel and radeon |
| 22:26.30 | Miles8of9 | kernel modules |
| 22:26.44 | nvz | you dont need to do anything but install debian, it does all that automatically |
| 22:27.02 | h4x0riz3d | * automagically |
| 22:27.10 | nvz | idk where you are getting your ideas of linux from but your understanding seems to be like 15 years out of date |
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| 22:27.50 | h4x0riz3d | maybe he's coming from crapdows |
| 22:27.56 | nvz | he is |
| 22:28.02 | h4x0riz3d | i knew it |
| 22:28.15 | *** join/#debian autofsckk (~autofsckk@187-178-92-72.dynamic.axtel.net) |
| 22:28.36 | nvz | what version I dont know, but I'd guess probably Win7/8 |
| 22:28.37 | Miles8of9 | hehe... i was an old linux user... red hat 4.2.. suse 5.3... debian sarge!!! i used to recompile the kernel with all modules |
| 22:28.58 | nvz | Miles8of9: yeah, well that was a LONG time ago.. |
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| 22:29.21 | nvz | if you had some bleeding edge hardware you may have to install a 5.x kernel from backports or something maybe |
| 22:29.43 | nvz | but your hardware as stated is all older than what I'm on.. and my machine is from 2013 |
| 22:29.55 | ZaZaGX | she wants it recompiled hard |
| 22:30.09 | Miles8of9 | download kernel tgz... apply various patches... make dep.. make prop... make menuconfig |
| 22:30.44 | nvz | Miles8of9: yeah.. modern kernel compiling isnt quite the same either.. making debian packages for the kernel is now mainlined |
| 22:30.45 | Miles8of9 | because make xconfig was based on tcl/tk libraries.. :P |
| 22:31.30 | nvz | Miles8of9: I just built myself a 5.4.1 kernel a couple days ago.. only had to configure with make menuconfig then make deb-pkg then install the deb packages with dpkg -i |
| 22:31.50 | nvz | and it wasnt necessary.. I just haven't built one since 2.6 and wanted to familiarize myself |
| 22:32.32 | Miles8of9 | kernels were 2.0, then 2.4 if i remember.. or 2.2 |
| 22:32.35 | nvz | 5.3.x is in buster-backports if it was required |
| 22:32.57 | nvz | Miles8of9: yes back then the minor versions were even for stable and odd for development |
| 22:33.05 | nvz | Miles8of9: that all changed after 2.6 |
| 22:33.32 | nvz | Miles8of9: seeing what a linux kernel can do today would probably make your head explode |
| 22:33.52 | h4x0riz3d | <eggsplozhan.gif> |
| 22:33.55 | nvz | Miles8of9: they can load a new kernel into memory and jump to it without restarting the machine, they can load patches as modules..etc |
| 22:35.21 | Miles8of9 | i compiled lots of libraries and software by hand.... because at that time there was no packages update... debian released new packages by applying patches to existing sources |
| 22:35.41 | Miles8of9 | red hat and suse.. ZERO new versions of packages |
| 22:35.56 | nvz | not in sarge..cause I first came to debian around 2002-2003ish and it was 2.2 (Potato) which is much older than sarge |
| 22:36.00 | Miles8of9 | buy/download next version! |
| 22:36.20 | h4x0riz3d | huh, sorry for "potato" |
| 22:36.22 | h4x0riz3d | x_x |
| 22:36.45 | nvz | yeah well I'd burned a 3 disc set of 2.2r6 and installed it, and a few days later Woody I think it was released |
| 22:36.49 | nvz | felt stupid :P |
| 22:37.21 | Miles8of9 | debian stable was simply stable because it was not moving at all!! :D |
| 22:37.41 | nvz | it still doesnt really move.. but ever since I been using it there have been security updates |
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| 22:37.55 | nvz | these days we have provisions for volitile packages like web browsers |
| 22:38.03 | Miles8of9 | well of course there were security updates |
| 22:38.08 | nvz | where we can actually get newer version numbers not just security fixes |
| 22:38.14 | nvz | but thats only for select things |
| 22:38.30 | nvz | Debian's priorities haven't changed.. thats why I'm still here |
| 22:39.06 | nvz | I'd come across Debian.org and read two documents that changed my life.. the Why Debian and Social Contract.. and those things haven't changed.. |
| 22:39.10 | nvz | !why debian |
| 22:39.10 | dpkg | Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also http://www.debian.org/intro/free http://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/talks/why_debian/ http://www.aboutdebian.com/ . As an added bonus, you get to ask questions in #debian. |
| 22:39.13 | nvz | !social contract |
| 22:39.13 | dpkg | The Debian Social Contract is the document that defines Debian's purpose, see http://www.debian.org/social_contract Summary: Debian is a 100% free software platform suitable for running all software. |
| 22:39.37 | Miles8of9 | https://packages.debian.org/buster/firefox-esr <-- version 68 in buster.. 71 is latest version :D |
| 22:39.40 | nvz | I recommend anyone considering debian read those.. and if that sounds good to you, then Debian's for you.. if not.. then its not for you :P |
| 22:39.57 | nvz | ,v firefox-esr |
| 22:39.58 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch: 60.7.1esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 60.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 68.2.0esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-security: 68.2.0esr-1~deb9u2; buster: 68.2.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 68.2.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 68.2.0esr-1+b1; sid: 68.3.0esr-1 |
| 22:40.34 | Miles8of9 | sid too |
| 22:41.01 | nvz | yes well, as I said.. those things haven't changed |
| 22:41.16 | nvz | we do update the browsers.. as you can see.. the 68 goes all the way back to jessie |
| 22:41.46 | nvz | but that doesnt mean we go bleeding edge.. we just still do security fixes and when needed, we have newer versions of some things |
| 22:42.13 | annadane | or just download firefox from mozilla's site |
| 22:42.14 | Miles8of9 | firefox 68 release date July 9, 2019 |
| 22:42.30 | nvz | yeah.. like 6mo ago.. |
| 22:42.34 | nvz | !buster |
| 22:42.34 | dpkg | Buster is the codename for the current <stable> release, Debian 10, released 2019-07-06. "Buster" is Andy's pet Dachsund in Toy Story, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianBuster . Ask me about <install buster>, <release notes>, <stretch->buster>. <apt suite changed> |
| 22:43.02 | nvz | buster was released 2 days earlier |
| 22:43.20 | annadane | firefox is basically the one thing i want the latest version of |
| 22:43.30 | Habbie | if anybody can edit that dpkg thing |
| 22:43.36 | Habbie | it's dachshund |
| 22:44.16 | nvz | dpkg, buster =~ s/Dachsund/Dachshund/ |
| 22:44.16 | dpkg | OK, nvz |
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| 22:45.38 | nvz | Habbie: literally anyone can.. |
| 22:46.06 | Habbie | nvz, cool :) |
| 22:46.15 | Habbie | thank you for fixing it |
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| 22:46.27 | nvz | dpkg, habbie is a a user that knows how to spell |
| 22:46.27 | dpkg | nvz: okay |
| 22:46.32 | nvz | !habbie |
| 22:46.32 | dpkg | habbie is probably a a user that knows how to spell |
| 22:46.35 | dvs | changes it to Rotweiller |
| 22:46.44 | nvz | dpkg, forget habbie |
| 22:46.46 | dpkg | i forgot habbie, nvz |
| 22:47.04 | annadane | !botsnack |
| 22:47.05 | dpkg | annadane: thanks |
| 22:48.09 | Habbie | !botcake |
| 22:48.09 | dpkg | Mmmmmm. Cake.... droool |
| 22:48.40 | nvz | Habbie: the bots also hang in #debian-bots and can be used in /msg as long as you are in a channel with them |
| 22:49.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1548] by debhelper |
| 22:49.03 | Habbie | i am aware of some of that but this information is only useful if it is easy to find :) |
| 22:49.23 | nvz | Habbie: the factoids are also available online via a web search engine |
| 22:50.09 | annadane | is /msg only if you're in the same channel? i thought it was same server |
| 22:50.28 | nvz | annadane: no, they won't respond to someone they don't know.. they have to see you in a channel |
| 22:50.53 | Habbie | annadane, /msg is networkwide, but whether a bot responds may depend on other factors, as nvz said |
| 22:51.35 | annadane | right, i'm conflating two separate things |
| 22:52.34 | nvz | for people who arent very savvy I often install pidgin and setup freenode/oftc and put the bots and channels in their buddy list and explain to them they have to join #debian to use the bots in a private message |
| 22:53.21 | jim | annadane, you mean for the bots? |
| 22:53.32 | nvz | pidgin is a rather crappy irc client, but I like to use it on machines I install for people who dont know much.. cause its easier for them to grok and can also work with other messaging protocols they may want to use |
| 22:53.48 | jim | it's actually, if you're on any channel the bot is also on |
| 22:54.07 | jim | and not all the bots have that restriction |
| 22:54.18 | nvz | yes, thats what I said.. I just dont often put #debian-bots or such in peoples buddy list :P |
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| 22:54.33 | nvz | and no, not all bots operate that way |
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| 22:55.59 | jim | (freenode has made it so that if you're not on a channel someone else is on, things like /who #channel won't list them |
| 22:56.04 | jim | ) |
| 22:56.10 | nvz | I usually put NickServ, ChanServ, Dpkg, Judd, Alis, on the buddy list and show them how to use them |
| 22:57.02 | nvz | though its usually a waste of time cause nobody I've ever installed Debian for seems to make use of the free irc support |
| 22:57.04 | jim | probably a good thing |
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| 22:57.17 | nvz | but they cant say I didnt make them aware of it :P |
| 22:57.46 | Miles8of9 | how can you "jump" into the new kernel without rebooting??? Oo |
| 22:58.09 | somiaj | Miles8of9: not easially |
| 22:58.45 | Miles8of9 | it's just safer to reboot :D |
| 22:59.02 | nvz | Miles8of9: you use a program called kexec one command loads the kernel and optionally initrd and commandline, the other issues a kexec() jump call.. its effect is essentially that of a reboot.. but the machine itself doesnt reboot |
| 22:59.18 | nvz | Miles8of9: just saying, a LOT has changed over the years |
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| 22:59.54 | Miles8of9 | you all do such thing instead of just reboot? |
| 23:00.00 | nvz | I once used kexec when all I had was an orange pi lite and I fubarred my debian setup and all I had was an android working.. I managed to kexec jump into my debian install and fix it without another machine |
| 23:00.21 | somiaj | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kexec there is that, but I don't think that is reloading the current kernel, but it is helpful if doing kernel development |
| 23:00.57 | nvz | thats the only time I used kexec for something I couldnt have done otherwise... to jump into debian from android |
| 23:01.36 | nvz | if I had a regular computer I could've had other options |
| 23:02.07 | nvz | it wasn't easy.. wasnt your typical friendly use of kexec |
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| 23:03.16 | nvz | but as somiaj points out.. if you were a developer looking to try out various commandline options a kexec call may be easier than rebooting, going through bios, grub, etc.. you could just change commandline parameters with kexec and jump into a new instance |
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| 23:03.53 | Miles8of9 | firefox browser from site ships in tar.bz2 format... no deb |
| 23:04.02 | nvz | Miles8of9: the magic sysrq call would also probably be new to you |
| 23:04.12 | somiaj | Miles8of9: it is a static linked binary, you can extract it to $HOME or /otp and just run the binary |
| 23:04.15 | nvz | wonders if he still has his dufus script |
| 23:04.16 | karlpinc | nvz: (Aside from the DFSG and Why Debian, debian users need to come to terms with the <stable> factoid.) |
| 23:04.32 | Miles8of9 | sysrq... never heard about |
| 23:04.41 | somiaj | and don't break debian, I think they think they can install any .deb they want. |
| 23:05.23 | karlpinc | Miles8of9: If you want the latest software, run arch. Just saying. |
| 23:05.24 | Miles8of9 | of course not... .deb s have dependencies... |
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| 23:05.34 | Miles8of9 | arch? |
| 23:05.58 | somiaj | testing and unstable are used by many, but understand what you loose as an side affect. |
| 23:06.03 | karlpinc | !arch linux |
| 23:06.04 | dpkg | Arch Linux is an a x86-64 optimized linux distribution which claims to be minimalistic and fast, has binary and source based package management. http://www.archlinux.org/ #archlinux on irc.freenode.net. |
| 23:06.12 | Miles8of9 | ahhh arch linux.... |
| 23:06.28 | nvz | Miles8of9: sysrq is a means of communicating with the kernel directly from the keyboard using the magic sysrq key.. can do things like flush disk caches, kill processes, unmount filesystems, etc.. |
| 23:06.55 | nvz | Miles8of9: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key |
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| 23:07.42 | nvz | Miles8of9: that bit IS something you might want to learn a bit about.. its a real life saver to get a machine back under control when the airborne fecal matter begins to impact the air circulation devices' propeller |
| 23:07.58 | nvz | Miles8of9: but as I said, a LOT has changed since the times you talk about :P |
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| 23:09.40 | nvz | Miles8of9: like if your system is on the verge of OOMing or something.. ram is full, swapping like crazy.. a SAK (Sysrq+alt+k) can get things under control.. usually in a desktop system will result in killing your X session and putting you back at the display manager login.. but you wont have to reboot or let the system keep spiraling out of control |
| 23:10.24 | nvz | sysrq commands work even when things are far too out of control to do much else |
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| 23:10.42 | Miles8of9 | ahhahha |
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| 23:11.48 | nvz | Miles8of9: its typically the PrnScr button on most systems.. |
| 23:12.29 | somiaj | isn't it disabled by default on debian systems though? |
| 23:12.38 | somiaj | I thought you had to enable it (Due to security issues) |
| 23:12.40 | nvz | not in my experience.. I use it a lot |
| 23:12.52 | nvz | and I've never explicitly enabled it |
| 23:12.55 | somiaj | hmm, maybe I'm thinking about some xorg things like ctrl-alt-backspace is now disabled. |
| 23:13.02 | Miles8of9 | what do you use as irc client? BitchX / ircII-epic? |
| 23:13.03 | nvz | yeah that is now disabled |
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| 23:13.31 | somiaj | bitchx is kinda considerd not that good these days, it had a small time it was popular, but irssi seems to be the more standard console client |
| 23:13.34 | nvz | Miles8of9: I dont think bitchx is even around anymore or ircii. I use irssi.. weechat is also popular for text-based.. hexchat is a popular gui |
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| 23:13.48 | somiaj | weechat or hexchat seems to be the more standard gui client. |
| 23:14.01 | somiaj | oh weechat is console I thought it was gui |
| 23:14.13 | nvz | na, weechat is similar to irssi |
| 23:14.18 | nvz | ,depends weechat |
| 23:14.19 | judd | Package weechat in buster/amd64 -- depends: weechat-curses (>= 2.3-1) | weechat-headless (>= 2.3-1). |
| 23:14.31 | nvz | ,i weechat |
| 23:14.32 | judd | Package weechat (net, optional) in buster/amd64: Fast, light and extensible chat client (metapackage). Version: 2.3-1; Size: 60.3k; Installed: 71k; Homepage: https://weechat.org/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/weechat |
| 23:15.47 | Miles8of9 | https://packages.debian.org/buster/net/epic5 epic is still around... ircII too |
| 23:16.10 | *** join/#debian cowpacity (~kevin@c-73-240-158-227.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 23:16.22 | Miles8of9 | bitchx had license issues... not free.. if i remember |
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| 23:24.20 | cowpacity | anyone have a nice terminal that they always have to install, or otherwise just feel empty without it? |
| 23:24.22 | Miles8of9 | i used that win32diskimager and it seemed to work... but now the contents of the pendrive are not similar to those i can see if i open the iso file |
| 23:25.13 | annadane | cowpacity, uhh. my go-to is typically xfce4-terminal. people do use xterm, with something like tmux/screen, i'm just not at that level yet |
| 23:26.57 | annadane | once i learn tmux though, perhaps |
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| 23:28.22 | cowpacity | oh nice i'm checking out the xfce4-terminal now, looks nice, nice preferences page |
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| 23:29.43 | Miles8of9 | hmm the pendrive looks like it contains a couple of files.... image verification fails btw |
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| 23:31.20 | annadane | that's probably a good sign of someone's age, do you use a terminal with native tabs or xterm with tmux/screen |
| 23:31.27 | annadane | and/or unix experience |
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| 23:33.31 | moistmoskito | cowpacity: rxvt-unicode |
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| 23:33.57 | annadane | oh interesting |
| 23:33.59 | annadane | an xterm replacement |
| 23:35.04 | moistmoskito | ive just used it since i switched to tilers ... no sense altering my .Xdefaults, or learning new bits of xterm when im familiar with urxvt |
| 23:35.20 | cowpacity | i never have used tmux, installing rxvt-unicode now |
| 23:36.10 | annadane | important to note tmux is a terminal *multiplexer*, not a terminal |
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| 23:37.24 | moistmoskito | https://pastebin.com/yzcBdjdG you will eventually want something similar cowpacity if you use urxvt or xterm |
| 23:37.34 | moistmoskito | this just sets my preferences for hte term |
| 23:38.16 | moistmoskito | in my case i save it as .Xdefaults in my ~/ |
| 23:38.32 | moistmoskito | though there are convos on deprecation of .Xdefaults |
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| 23:40.12 | annadane | tmux does seem really nice. i'll have to try it out a bit |
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| 23:40.21 | moistmoskito | tmux i like over gnuscreen |
| 23:40.26 | annadane | most do |
| 23:40.28 | moistmoskito | but i rarely need a mutliplexer |
| 23:40.32 | karlpinc | annadane: And there's always plain old job control. I tend to use that. |
| 23:40.35 | moistmoskito | unless im doing a gentoo install |
| 23:41.14 | annadane | hah yeah open elinks in one pane and then install your complicated OS in the other |
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| 23:41.19 | moistmoskito | honestly in a wm i prefer to have mutliple terms ... if im not in X i consider tmix |
| 23:41.39 | moistmoskito | tmux... yea annadane exactly |
| 23:42.12 | annadane | as opposed to debian which i can have it and all my configs installed in about half an hour |
| 23:42.13 | cowpacity | oh cool that pastebin was a nice help |
| 23:42.18 | somiaj | I mostly use tmux for the applications I want to be able to access remotely (like irssi) once I head home for the day. |
| 23:42.43 | somiaj | but provided I don't need to access the work remotely I prefer muptiple xterms |
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| 23:42.52 | cowpacity | right, tmux and the like seem like a great idea if you're not running x at all |
| 23:43.20 | somiaj | or if you have something you are working on you want to access from multiple locations without having to shut down the process and rerun it. |
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| 23:44.00 | annadane | there's so much unix history/knowledge i just skipped |
| 23:44.06 | annadane | i'm sure i do a million things non optimially |
| 23:44.44 | andrewzah | tmux is good, particularly if your terminal doesn't have scrollback |
| 23:44.48 | somiaj | though lots of times some of the old stuff leaves cruft around too, I do like a lot of the older stuff, but at some level it is full of cruft. |
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| 23:46.59 | annadane | i should go full openbox/xterm/tmux and see how far i can get before giving up screaming |
| 23:47.13 | somiaj | or just fvwm |
| 23:47.24 | annadane | i'm not THAT crazy |
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| 23:48.14 | andrewzah | i tried fvwm since openbsd installs it by default, but wasn't really a fan |
| 23:48.42 | Miles8of9 | fvwm... :D |
| 23:48.49 | annadane | i still haven't really found the de/wm i like, except xfce |
| 23:48.50 | somiaj | that doesn't give fvwm a fair shake, since openbsd defaults to a very old version (due to a license change)..but this is mostly offtopic now |
| 23:48.55 | Miles8of9 | i used fvwm95 for a lot of time!! :D |
| 23:49.36 | somiaj | I think a testimate to the quality of fvwm is fvwm0.96 still compiles and runs on modern linux systems just fine. Though I've been using fvwm for 15+ years now, and my desktop hasn't changed in 10+ |
| 23:50.13 | andrewzah | i just am used to i3 |
| 23:50.20 | annadane | i've tried i3 - not a fan |
| 23:50.25 | Miles8of9 | http://fvwm95.sourceforge.net/ <-- there it is!! :D :D |
| 23:50.26 | annadane | i want to like it and just can't |
| 23:50.27 | moistmoskito | xfce is kinda nice annadane |
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| 23:50.51 | andrewzah | maybe I can give fvwm another try if I ever install openbsd again |
| 23:50.52 | moistmoskito | for a de it combines some of the luxeries of a de while remaining faily light |
| 23:51.02 | somiaj | andrewzah: make sure to install 2.6.9 from ports |
| 23:51.05 | moistmoskito | ,fvwm |
| 23:51.12 | andrewzah | cool, thanks |
| 23:51.13 | moistmoskito | im not super familiar with that one... |
| 23:51.17 | FuzzyByte | lxde is neat, too. It's fairly lightweight and is nice to look at. |
| 23:51.19 | somiaj | ,i fvwm |
| 23:51.21 | judd | Package fvwm (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: F(?) Virtual Window Manager. Version: 1:2.6.8-1; Size: 2490.7k; Installed: 6527k; Homepage: http://www.fvwm.org/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/fvwm |
| 23:51.22 | andrewzah | it's just hard to leave debian |
| 23:51.43 | andrewzah | and linux since I work with docker a lot |
| 23:51.44 | annadane | i've dabbled in bsd and linux just... has niceities i'd rather not live without |
| 23:51.49 | somiaj | moistmoskito: its one of the older wms, hasn't seen much update in about 5+ years, but is quite stable and gets bug fixes here and there. |
| 23:51.54 | moistmoskito | andrewzah: ive been on arch for 10 years but health and age lead to decline and cant maintain an arch system... i have found i really like debian |
| 23:52.11 | andrewzah | yep I used ot be on arch as well, until rolling updates broke my system |
| 23:52.19 | moistmoskito | arch is a work of art in itself |
| 23:52.21 | andrewzah | debian is just nice, no fuss |
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| 23:52.38 | moistmoskito | yea i havent had any updates since install... i like the package stability |
| 23:52.57 | cowpacity | I've been enjoying the look/feel of kde plasma for a while now. i have a soft spot for the default mx linux look though |
| 23:52.58 | moistmoskito | i also like debians sane configs that are all aligned |
| 23:53.01 | andrewzah | now with steam proton I don't even need to dualboot windows or have ntfs formatted drives anymore :D |
| 23:53.03 | moistmoskito | vs arch where i do it all myself |
| 23:53.10 | somiaj | moistmoskito: not even security updates? |
| 23:53.20 | moistmoskito | its only been like a week |
| 23:53.22 | moistmoskito | <PROTECTED> |
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| 23:53.32 | somiaj | well I had libnss update just today. |
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| 23:55.04 | moistmoskito | well what do you know... my packagemanagement widget isnt working as desired |
| 23:55.17 | moistmoskito | ty somiaj for bringing that to attention |
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| 23:56.13 | somiaj | moistmoskito: debian gets a hand full of security fixes a week, though they don't always hit packages one is using. unattneded-upgrades can help with this if you don't want to keep up to date (or subscribe to the dsa mailing list) |
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| 23:56.48 | somiaj | moistmoskito: it could be that the applet only run's update once a day or every so often, so it won't see the upgrade until apt update is ran again. |
| 23:57.19 | moistmoskito | somiaj: it should check few times daily .... had to --fix-broken install since libc++ was being fussy some reason |
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| 23:57.32 | moistmoskito | which probably threw off the widget ... something to keep an eye on |
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| 23:58.17 | moistmoskito | a few packages where not in offical repos and i did have to build qt in order to get qtwebflix working |
| 23:58.20 | moistmoskito | so whoops on my end |
