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| 01:04.43 | LaurentDumont | @nvz: Those figures seems a bit strange. I wouldnt expect a 5x decrease in performance with a VM. |
| 01:04.47 | LaurentDumont | NAT or bridged. |
| 01:05.06 | LaurentDumont | There is some overhead but it cannot be that bad. Especially for something as "regular" as torrent traffic. |
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| 01:06.04 | sponix | My VM's all perform decent |
| 01:06.29 | sponix | maybe the Host System is very low on resources ? |
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| 01:18.34 | ravenrook | how does one change the dbus launch settings...i seem to run out of them |
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| 01:32.25 | LCRERGO | Hi, is there a way to see debian's compilation options on a package? |
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| 01:33.14 | LCRERGO | And is it possible to compile the package with different options and make it be tracked by dpkg and apt? |
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| 01:34.16 | sponix | LCRERGO: the patches and build file stuff should be on the website |
| 01:35.27 | ksk | !tell LCRERGO about source |
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| 01:35.57 | sponix | lets try this |
| 01:35.59 | sponix | !source |
| 01:35.59 | dpkg | As an overview: to work with Debian source packages, add a <deb-src> line to your sources list; cd to a location with free space; download the source package with <apt-get source>; retrieve dependencies with <apt-get build-dep>; edit <debian/rules> to taste; use <dpkg-buildpackage> to build the new .deb. For more details, also ask me about <package recompile> <backport> <nmg> <policy> <source package> |
| 01:39.09 | LCRERGO | whoa, thanks a lot |
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| 01:43.10 | nyov | also, for how to do it from .dsc files, this helped me recently again: https://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/12/15/howto-to-rebuild-debian-packages/ |
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| 01:48.51 | annadane | can systemd list what services are taking up the most cpu power? |
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| 01:51.18 | mason | annadane: top can do that |
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| 01:53.02 | annadane | i guess |
| 01:53.08 | mason | Or ps with --sort |
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| 01:53.53 | annadane | yeeeeah it's firefox being a hog :/ |
| 01:53.58 | annadane | which i don't understand |
| 01:54.16 | annadane | maybe i need to like, disable hardware acceleration or something |
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| 01:55.57 | mason | ps -Ao pcpu,comm --sort=-pcpu | head |
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| 01:59.42 | nyov | nice one, mason |
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| 02:05.49 | ksk | annadane: are you on a crypto mining website? :P |
| 02:06.06 | annadane | yesmaybeno |
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| 02:17.16 | nyov | it's probably the about:robots doing nasty things with your ressources |
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| 02:18.46 | annadane | what is about:robots? |
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| 02:19.02 | ksk | an easteregg. |
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| 02:46.22 | nvz | I've seen my father's ff using over 20G before and he only had 4G ram at the time |
| 02:46.53 | nvz | I still don't understand how htop was showing usage far in excess of the ram/swap available |
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| 02:47.45 | ksk | there are different types of "ram" for linux, so to say. As far as I know only some are limited by the real value of ram. |
| 02:48.11 | ksk | (what top shows as VIRT, RES and SHR) |
| 02:48.15 | nvz | yes well afaik virtual memory cannot exceed ram+swap |
| 02:48.25 | nvz | and it was resident memory |
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| 02:48.52 | nvz | he tends to leave a bunch of tabs open for hours at a time |
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| 02:50.22 | ksk | https://serverfault.com/questions/138427/what-does-virtual-memory-size-in-top-mean - second answer seems reasonable to me (meaning that VIRT can exceed RES + SWAP nowadays) |
| 02:50.31 | nvz | ,conflicts mypaint-data |
| 02:50.32 | judd | Package mypaint-data in buster/amd64 -- conflicts: None. |
| 02:50.37 | nvz | ,conflicts mypain |
| 02:50.38 | judd | No package named 'mypain' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 02:50.39 | nvz | ,conflicts mypaint |
| 02:50.40 | judd | Package mypaint in buster/amd64 -- conflicts: None. |
| 02:50.43 | nvz | o.O |
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| 02:51.12 | nvz | could someone attempt to install mypaint and tell me if you see what happens.. |
| 02:51.32 | nvz | I just did it on my machine and remotely on my fathers and first it fails sayign mypaint-data will not be installed |
| 02:51.47 | nvz | so then when you say apt install mypaint mypaint-data it installs, but removes gimp |
| 02:51.54 | nvz | and when you install gimp it removes mypaint |
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| 02:52.25 | Kurogane | Hello, how i can solve this error? https://puu.sh/EO8lz/6bc23ec2db.png |
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| 02:53.36 | nvz | Kurogane: there is no error shown there |
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| 02:56.10 | nvz | I can't see any reason gimp and mypaint shouldnt be able to coexist |
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| 02:56.26 | Kurogane | I see two erros, 1. Discard and 2. can't boot because can't mount /home. Not sure if because discard or something else. |
| 02:57.28 | nvz | thats not an error its a notice (1) and (2) I dont see in the photo |
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| 03:09.49 | nvz | Kurogane: either way the problem is rather trivial to solve, you need to remove the discard option from that line in fstab and all should be well |
| 03:10.06 | nvz | Kurogane: you will likely have to use rescue mode or chroot from another media if its not booting |
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| 03:11.24 | nvz | you also need to run fsck it would seem :P |
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| 03:13.04 | Kurogane | fsck is "system quota check" ? |
| 03:13.53 | nvz | no fsck is a filesystem check |
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| 03:14.53 | nvz | the filesystem quota check is it comparing actual disk usage against the recorded usage for the quota you've set |
| 03:15.27 | nvz | but it shows in that image that you need an fsck on /dev/sda something or other.. likely due to an improper shutdown or some other kind of issue |
| 03:15.34 | Kurogane | already 30min and not end.... |
| 03:15.52 | nvz | that doesn't mean its actually doing it |
| 03:16.06 | Kurogane | I not care sda if not md5 |
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| 03:17.21 | nvz | when it says "a start job is running for..." and shows a timer thats basically how long it's been trying to do something |
| 03:17.31 | nvz | if it were actually doing something you'd usually not see that |
| 03:17.41 | nvz | you'd see actual progress/status info |
| 03:17.44 | Kurogane | I just want to know if normal and only need to wait to finish but i don't know if actually doing something and i can't check. |
| 03:18.02 | nvz | no, its trying and failing to do something |
| 03:18.08 | nvz | likely due to the other issues |
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| 03:18.52 | nvz | that message is from systemd.. systemd is just a dispatcher of things in this sense.. its trying to dispatch the quota check and its waiting.. but its not happening |
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| 03:19.21 | nvz | and systemd is asynchronous so it can do more than one thing at a time, but its also dependency based.. and apparently what its trying to do is required for the next things to happen |
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| 03:19.33 | nvz | and if that doesn't happen, it can't proceed.. so it's waiting on it |
| 03:20.10 | nvz | it'll keep waiting until it happens, fails, or times out.. and in this case it probably has no timeout.. cause its required.. and its not happening or failing, so it'll just keep waiting indefinitely more than likely |
| 03:20.26 | Kurogane | I see that error before but set time limit something like 1:30m but this case says "no limit" |
| 03:21.01 | nvz | yes, cause its a required thing.. its not going to just skip it.. its going to wait indefinitely |
| 03:21.12 | nvz | you have a bigger problem somewhere |
| 03:21.30 | nvz | as I said, power failure.. maybe a disk failure.. a corrupt filesystem (the image suggest as much) |
| 03:21.35 | nvz | something happened before all this |
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| 03:21.42 | nvz | you're staring too far down the rabit hole |
| 03:22.21 | nvz | lookin way past the rabbit |
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| 03:27.00 | swift110 | hey nvz |
| 03:27.44 | nvz | seems gimp depends on libmypaint-1.3-0 which depends on libmypaint-common which conflicts with mypaint-data which is depended upon by mypaint |
| 03:27.47 | nvz | wtelf |
| 03:28.01 | nvz | swift110: o/ |
| 03:28.22 | nvz | tries to get this straight in his head to figure out who to bitch at |
| 03:28.39 | dvs | runs away |
| 03:28.56 | nvz | I've never seen something like this in stable |
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| 03:40.09 | nyov | nvz: mypaint upstream was asleep https://github.com/mypaint/mypaint/issues/918 |
| 03:40.13 | nyov | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=894757 |
| 03:40.14 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/894757 in libmypaint-common (closed): «libmypaint-common: file conflict with mypaint-data»; severity: serious; opened: 2018-04-03; last modified: 2018-09-21. |
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| 03:40.45 | annadane | i always mix up your names |
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| 03:42.34 | nyov | I see how that could happen |
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| 05:20.13 | n-iCe | Hi guys, I want to create something really lightweight, will Debian work for me? I'm running only 1GB of ram in my laptop is very old. |
| 05:21.01 | Sabine | mx linux ? |
| 05:21.43 | Unit193 | The biggest problem is going to be any browser you choose to use. |
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| 05:23.01 | nvz | nyov: idk that bugreport seems like one big circle jerk, is marked closed and obviously the problem still exists |
| 05:23.17 | n-iCe | Unit193: oh I see |
| 05:23.18 | nvz | nyov: and it did nothing but aggrivate me and got me no closer to a means to install both programs :P |
| 05:23.22 | n-iCe | but can I use netinstall |
| 05:23.45 | Unit193 | That being said, I have a 1G system that runs unstable and Xfce. |
| 05:24.04 | nvz | nyov: what I was gonna do before I got side tracked was compare the two conflicting packages and figure out what file(s) were the issue and just try rebuild one of them without it |
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| 05:24.18 | n-iCe | Unit193: is not xfce heavy for 1gb ram? |
| 05:24.28 | nvz | nyov: that and go bitch at someone about it :P |
| 05:24.30 | coruja | n-iCe, you may try a light desktop environment (lxde, lxqt, xfce) or just a standalone window manager |
| 05:24.53 | nyov | nvz: you might be able to force-install the package, or rebuild it with the Conflicts: line removed |
| 05:24.55 | n-iCe | I'm using slitaz right now |
| 05:25.14 | coruja | n-iCe, and having swap (for e.g. full-featured web browsers) is more than recommended |
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| 05:25.36 | nvz | nyov: considering I dont give a damn about mypaint, and this would be for my father I need something thats not gonna break when I'm not looking :P |
| 05:25.52 | n-iCe | thing is slitaz is buggy I install some program and they just don't launch, install, etc |
| 05:26.14 | nvz | nyov: he bitches all the time that gimp is too complicated and that it cant do this and that.. when it can he just doesnt know how.. he wanted something simpler for basic photo editing. |
| 05:27.26 | nyov | n-iCe: I could suggest linux mint, debian edition, using mate. But debian should work as well, if you use a lightweitght DM |
| 05:27.32 | Unit193 | n-iCe: I won't deny that openbox would be more lightweight, but Xfce is idling at 300M, and that's with the heavy dropbox daemon running. |
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| 05:28.30 | n-iCe | nyov: I'm thinkg in something more lightweight |
| 05:28.36 | n-iCe | people tell me about puppylinux |
| 05:29.01 | nvz | o.O |
| 05:29.06 | nyov | no clue about puppy |
| 05:29.26 | nvz | looks around confused momentarily about where he is |
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| 05:29.39 | coruja | the more lightweight, the more cli and the less gui, simply said |
| 05:29.46 | n-iCe | or just install netinstall debian, no DE and try any window manager |
| 05:30.03 | nyov | if that works for you, all the better |
| 05:30.21 | nvz | n-iCe: what is your concern, what does lightweight mean to you? disk usage? ram? what is your use case specifically? |
| 05:30.31 | n-iCe | ram processor |
| 05:30.52 | nvz | n-iCe: how constrained are you exactly, what is it you want to be able to do? |
| 05:31.01 | n-iCe | browser irc |
| 05:31.46 | coruja | as Unit193 pointed out, the desktop or window manager is not the problem with 1G but applications (browser, office, gfx/video) |
| 05:31.53 | nvz | I have a site http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/buster/ which shows HDD/ram usage of various options you can choose from tasksel in the installer and the package lists, screenshots, etc |
| 05:32.23 | nyov | I have an old notebook running debian, formerly lmde, that can't handle firefox 45+, but works ok with palemoon now |
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| 05:32.47 | nyov | wish there was something better, but you take what you can get |
| 05:32.57 | nvz | you need at least a Pentium 4 w/ 64MB ram and 500MB hdd to run buster is the short version |
| 05:33.33 | nvz | and thats just the base/standard install no GUI |
| 05:34.27 | Logg | did buster drop support for pentium 2? :\ |
| 05:34.46 | n-iCe | rebooting into debian |
| 05:34.46 | n-iCe | brb |
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| 05:38.35 | mr_ab | This may sound incredibly stupid but it's driving me #*@()ing nuts |
| 05:39.04 | nyov | nvz: the bug I linked is closed, but #906144 is still open |
| 05:39.05 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/906144 in libmypaint-common (open, patch, buster-ignore): «libmypaint-common: drop Conflicts: mypaint-data»; severity: serious; opened: 2018-08-14; last modified: 2019-06-06. |
| 05:39.29 | mr_ab | Does anyone know .. how "stay on top" / window depths work or well, if there is anything I can do about this? ... I use gopass which is a password store, when I use it, it has to decrypt stuff using gnupg .. which then launches the passphrase prompt most of the time |
| 05:39.44 | mr_ab | Problem is my terminal is almost always in "stay on top mode" and then it doesn't get focused |
| 05:39.54 | nyov | I think there are only some .mo files conflicting, so force-installing it at best will break one package when the other is removed |
| 05:40.20 | nvz | mr_ab: so don't keep your terminal in always on top mode :P |
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| 05:40.54 | mr_ab | actually it may not even be in always on top mode |
| 05:40.56 | n-iCe | Installing. |
| 05:40.59 | mr_ab | it may just not be focusing |
| 05:41.02 | mr_ab | let me check |
| 05:41.06 | nvz | mr_ab: my fav wm has become rather obsolete but it had much finer grained control of such things.. it didnt just have only "always on top" it had actual depth layers |
| 05:41.20 | mr_ab | Using xfce4 here |
| 05:41.22 | nvz | it also had fine-grained focus models |
| 05:42.02 | mr_ab | The "terminal" is guake, .. not sure if you're familiar, .. it's suppose to work like a FPS shooter console, so I have it bound to alt+` , and that pops down a terminal over most of my screen (thus 'always on top') |
| 05:42.04 | nvz | and window matching to be able to apply all that and more to specific windows |
| 05:42.24 | mr_ab | and then another tap on alt+` pops it back up |
| 05:42.37 | mr_ab | i spend prob half the day in the terminal so it's pretty useful |
| 05:42.43 | nvz | hmm.. might check that out |
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| 05:43.18 | nvz | I used to when I still used sawfish, and it wasnt totally obsolete, would just keep my terminal without a frame, ignored by task/window lists at the layer just above the desktop |
| 05:43.30 | nvz | so I could use show-desktop feature to see my terminal |
| 05:43.40 | nvz | no matter what else I was doing |
| 05:45.04 | nvz | mr_ab: sounds to me like you're more a power user and need a more powerful wm |
| 05:45.15 | nvz | or at least better control over the one you got |
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| 05:45.24 | mr_ab | I spend at minimum 8-9h/day at this pc |
| 05:45.27 | nvz | ,i wmctrl |
| 05:45.30 | judd | Package wmctrl (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: control an EWMH/NetWM compatible X Window Manager. Version: 1.07-7+b1; Size: 21.0k; Installed: 57k; Homepage: http://tomas.styblo.name/wmctrl/ |
| 05:45.34 | mr_ab | that's a firm possibility.. I'll check it out |
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| 05:46.10 | mr_ab | hmm, .. that link goes to some guys linkedin profile yo =) |
| 05:46.32 | nvz | thats a solution you could use to adjust any netwm/EWMH compatible wm |
| 05:46.55 | nvz | its just a commanline program that can manipulate any wm thats compliant |
| 05:47.11 | nvz | you can script around it, maybe use a global hotkey daemon like triggerhappy or something |
| 05:47.26 | nvz | but you can also just try other wms |
| 05:47.36 | mr_ab | yeah I got the manpage up. i'll see if this will do. I think you can customize the program that is used to input the passphrase, so perhaps I can write a wrapper to launch whteevr the binary is called, and then call wmctrl to force focus |
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| 05:48.54 | mr_ab | oh wow this is powerful |
| 05:49.01 | mr_ab | this is really neat, period. thanks for the info |
| 05:50.16 | nvz | yeah well just to understand what a wm could do.. you may look into sawfish at some point.. but its long abandoned not EWMH, modern theme, or much anything compliant but was super powerful and had a great config ui.. understanding what a good WM could do from that viewpoint would help you understand how to hack such functionality into a modern wm |
| 05:50.51 | nvz | the modern wm focus more on themability and standards compliance and tend to forsake the configurability |
| 05:51.05 | nvz | the mainstream ones in DEs that is |
| 05:51.47 | nvz | being NETWM/EWMH compliant however means you can use things like wmctrl or such to make a wm do crap it wasn't necessarily designed for |
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| 05:54.10 | Logg | i'm updating my pentium II to sid to prove the haters wrong |
| 05:54.10 | n-iCe | nvz done Debian is installed. |
| 05:55.07 | nyov | Logg: what are haters saying? |
| 05:55.24 | Logg | nvz said you need a pentium 4 with 64 megs of ram |
| 05:55.28 | n-iCe | I don't have internet |
| 05:55.31 | n-iCe | How to connect? |
| 05:55.47 | nvz | heh |
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| 05:56.46 | n-iCe | No iwconfig no ifconfig |
| 05:56.48 | n-iCe | Dammit |
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| 05:57.31 | nvz | Logg: https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/i386/ch02s01.html.en 2.1.2.1 "However, Debian GNU/Linux stretch will not run on 586 (Pentium) or earlier pro" and thats oldstable |
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| 05:58.04 | Logg | yea, 8.0 for 486 & 586; 9.0 removed support for those platforms |
| 05:58.10 | Logg | but the reaper has not yet come for the 686! |
| 05:58.12 | n-iCe | ? |
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| 05:58.23 | nvz | Logg: http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/buster/ as my site shows, the buster base/std use over 50MB ram just booted, running nothing |
| 05:58.40 | Logg | I have a cool screenshot for you, 19 MB of ram on stretch 9.9 :) |
| 05:58.48 | nyov | oh, so I can't upgrade my celeron notebook? dang. we'll see about that! someday... |
| 05:59.46 | nvz | Logg: yes well you can technically run it on as old as Pentium Pro / Pentium M or such.. |
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| 06:00.44 | Logg | nvz: https://i.imgur.com/1YhX4DG.jpg :D |
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| 06:01.19 | nvz | !de usage |
| 06:01.19 | dpkg | methinks de usage is The HDD/RAM of the 7 DE on Stretch: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE 3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M. For Buster usage, package lists, and screenshots of the same see http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/buster |
| 06:02.01 | nvz | if you compare the values I put in that factoid with the ones on the site.. buster is significantly beefier |
| 06:02.44 | Logg | updating to sid now, just takes a long time for P2 to extract the archives... :-) |
| 06:03.14 | nvz | I didn't record base/std for stretch |
| 06:03.23 | nvz | and those are on amd64 too btw |
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| 06:04.17 | nyov | Logg: hahaha, but can you *use* it!? |
| 06:04.31 | Logg | robotfindscat is a great terminal game for it :) |
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| 06:08.11 | Logg | the best use for it honestly is to brag to windows friends how resource efficient linux is |
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| 06:09.53 | nyov | where linux = kernel. not so sure about current gen software on it |
| 06:10.53 | Logg | It pretty much works. Just slower. |
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| 06:18.47 | mr_ab | nvz: by the way, using that, was able to fix this in precisely two lines of bash and 1 line to a conf file. appreciated =) |
| 06:20.05 | nvz | mr_ab: :D I'd like to write a gui version of that.. to mimic the functionality sawfish configurator had that is wm agnostic using EWMH/NETWM |
| 06:20.23 | n-iCe | nvz can you help me? |
| 06:20.30 | nvz | mr_ab: there are many such tools like that.. I scriped a thing or two around xdotool also |
| 06:20.57 | mr_ab | oh, is sawfish the one you said was outdated?! ... i used sawfish for a short period prior to changing to xfce4 about 4yrs ago when i finally went linux native |
| 06:21.06 | mr_ab | wouldn't call it outdated |
| 06:21.20 | Logg | n-iCe, how have you tried to connect to the internet so far? |
| 06:21.34 | n-iCe | Logg I only can wifi |
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| 06:21.42 | n-iCe | I installed nonfree usb |
| 06:21.49 | n-iCe | But iwconfig does not work ifconfig etc |
| 06:21.59 | Logg | n-iCe, "ip" is the program now. "ip a" to show ip addresses |
| 06:22.11 | nvz | mr_ab: oh its def outdated.. it hasn't been developed in like 6 years and its not EWMH compliant nor does it work with modern gtk themes.. and the lack of EWMH compliance causes odd behavior.. like the "drawers" that slide out of mate-panel show up as normal windows instead of pop-outs |
| 06:22.24 | n-iCe | Logg and to connect wifi |
| 06:22.40 | nvz | mr_ab: it also has barely non-existant multi-head support.. believe me, I love the damn thing.. I'd still be using it if it were feasible |
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| 06:22.45 | Logg | n-iCe, do you use NetworkManager, or... |
| 06:22.50 | n-iCe | No desktop |
| 06:22.58 | n-iCe | Just terminal |
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| 06:23.27 | Logg | ok without desktop, it's kind of complicated b/c you have to convert the wifi password to some obfuscated format and put it in a config file somewhere iirc |
| 06:23.37 | nvz | n-iCe: was the network detected and working during the installer? |
| 06:24.11 | n-iCe | Yes it was nvz |
| 06:24.34 | nvz | n-iCe: and what did you select in tasksel? |
| 06:24.44 | n-iCe | What's tasksel |
| 06:24.51 | nvz | the software selection |
| 06:24.58 | Logg | n-iCe, maybe this search engine result will be helpful to you: https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-connect-to-wifi-from-the-cli-on-debian-10-buster |
| 06:25.12 | n-iCe | Just system packages |
| 06:25.19 | n-iCe | Or the last one can't remember the name |
| 06:25.22 | nvz | Debian desktop environment, gnome, xfce, kde, cinnamon, mate, lxde, lxqt, web server, print server, ssh server, standard system utilities |
| 06:25.40 | nvz | so you DID select the standard system utilities then? |
| 06:26.01 | n-iCe | Yes! |
| 06:26.52 | nvz | n-iCe: so then what's the problem? |
| 06:27.04 | n-iCe | How do I connect to my wifi |
| 06:27.29 | n-iCe | After installation finished and reboot, no Internet |
| 06:27.31 | nvz | so the problem is you don't know how to use wpasupplicant and wireless-tools? |
| 06:27.42 | nvz | not that they're not working or something |
| 06:27.52 | n-iCe | I used to use iwconfig iwlist etc |
| 06:28.06 | Logg | n-iCe, try the article i linked above |
| 06:28.12 | nvz | n-iCe: is your AP wpa2 secured? |
| 06:28.24 | n-iCe | Logg thing is the link used iwlist |
| 06:28.29 | n-iCe | Which is not available anymore |
| 06:28.34 | n-iCe | nvz yea |
| 06:28.45 | nvz | n-iCe: then you will need to use wpasupplicant |
| 06:28.58 | n-iCe | BJ |
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| 06:29.22 | Unit193 | ,i ceni |
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| 06:29.24 | judd | Package ceni (net, optional) in buster/amd64: Curses interface to /etc/network/interfaces. Version: 2.33-2; Size: 45.6k; Installed: 130k; Homepage: https://github.com/fullstory/ceni |
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| 06:29.58 | nvz | there is also nmcli, but that doesnt matter, user has said they have standard install and only wifi access |
| 06:30.28 | nvz | and the link provided, while a bit ad-y and not best I've seen, does explain exactly how to do it |
| 06:30.43 | Unit193 | Fair enough. |
| 06:30.55 | Logg | don't need iwlist if you know the ssid. |
| 06:30.57 | n-iCe | Can't use wpasupplicant no such command |
| 06:31.05 | nvz | you need to be root |
| 06:31.11 | nvz | !buster su |
| 06:31.11 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 06:31.20 | n-iCe | I am |
| 06:31.26 | nvz | how did you become root? |
| 06:31.29 | n-iCe | Su |
| 06:31.33 | nvz | thats why |
| 06:31.48 | n-iCe | O.o |
| 06:31.54 | n-iCe | What's going on, everything changed |
| 06:31.58 | Logg | `sudo -i` is the new meta |
| 06:32.28 | n-iCe | Sudo command not found |
| 06:32.37 | nvz | n-iCe: thats stupid advice |
| 06:32.52 | Logg | wow what a hater. |
| 06:32.52 | nvz | sudo is optional, only gets installed on a base/std install if no root password is set |
| 06:32.59 | *** join/#debian andax (~andax@176.250.58.68) |
| 06:33.06 | n-iCe | I'm not understanding |
| 06:33.09 | nvz | we've been over this already.. the user has a std install, only wifi |
| 06:33.15 | nvz | therefor doesnt have sudo |
| 06:33.17 | *** join/#debian guerby (~guerby@april/board/guerby) |
| 06:33.19 | nvz | n-iCe: su - |
| 06:33.35 | nvz | ,i sudo |
| 06:33.36 | judd | Package sudo (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Provide limited super user privileges to specific users. Version: 1.8.27-1+deb10u1; Size: 1215.1k; Installed: 3787k; Homepage: http://www.sudo.ws/ |
| 06:33.37 | *** join/#debian fflori (~fflori@194.230.155.117) |
| 06:33.41 | nvz | admin, optional |
| 06:33.43 | n-iCe | Done, still wpasupplicant command not found |
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| 06:34.04 | nvz | echo $PATH |
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| 06:34.23 | n-iCe | Just back space returned |
| 06:34.29 | n-iCe | Black |
| 06:35.01 | nvz | heh |
| 06:35.24 | jm_ | class |
| 06:35.31 | nvz | did you type su - when you were already root from doing su |
| 06:35.38 | n-iCe | No |
| 06:35.47 | n-iCe | Iwconfig now works! |
| 06:36.08 | nvz | ,file bin/wpa_supplicant |
| 06:36.13 | judd | Search for bin/wpa_supplicant in buster/amd64: wpasupplicant: sbin/wpa_supplicant |
| 06:36.35 | nvz | n-iCe: yes iwlist, iwconfig, wpa_supplicant should all work |
| 06:36.42 | nvz | if your path is correct and you are root |
| 06:37.18 | n-iCe | Ok! Works! |
| 06:37.28 | n-iCe | It is wpa_supplicant |
| 06:37.43 | nvz | yeah, the binary is, the package name is wpasupplicant |
| 06:37.53 | nvz | utter brilliance that one.. |
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| 06:38.27 | n-iCe | Ifconfig does not work and iwconfig says my wifi interface is down |
| 06:38.54 | nvz | ifconfig is deprecated and no longer in base/std install |
| 06:39.01 | nvz | ,i net-tools |
| 06:39.02 | judd | Package net-tools (net, optional) in buster/amd64: NET-3 networking toolkit. Version: 1.60+git20180626.aebd88e-1; Size: 242.5k; Installed: 979k; Homepage: http://sourceforge.net/projects/net-tools/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/net-tools |
| 06:39.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1518] by debhelper |
| 06:39.13 | nvz | ,file bin/ifconfig |
| 06:39.18 | judd | Search for bin/ifconfig in buster/amd64: net-tools: sbin/ifconfig |
| 06:39.26 | nvz | its an optional package |
| 06:39.33 | nvz | it was replaced by the ip command |
| 06:39.40 | nvz | which replaces ifconfig, route, etc.. |
| 06:39.54 | mr_ab | i'm not trying to be funny when asking this: where do I get the memo that such things are deprecated? |
| 06:40.15 | mr_ab | Someone corrected me in my usage of netstat the other day |
| 06:40.24 | mr_ab | apparently 'ss' is the appropriate tool |
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| 06:40.43 | nyov | mr_ab: oh? thanks for the memo |
| 06:40.54 | nvz | mr_ab: you just gotta stay tuned.. heh.. irc, mailing lists, release notes, changelogs, etc |
| 06:41.03 | n-iCe | Can't find ip up or something |
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| 06:41.39 | nvz | n-iCe: dhclient will bring an interface up |
| 06:41.53 | nvz | frankly I'm not hip to the ip command.. I still use ifconfig, netstat, route.. etc.. heh |
| 06:42.10 | nvz | I know `ip a` thats about it |
| 06:42.19 | Logg | that's all i've needed |
| 06:42.31 | n-iCe | But is there no a command or menu just to select my wifi and write my password like in the installation? |
| 06:42.49 | nvz | sure.. but you gotta install it :P |
| 06:43.00 | n-iCe | What package |
| 06:43.08 | nvz | nmcli, wicd, centi, etc.. |
| 06:43.11 | n-iCe | I can move the file with my phone |
| 06:43.21 | n-iCe | All are text gui bases? |
| 06:43.21 | nvz | file? heh |
| 06:43.24 | n-iCe | Based |
| 06:43.32 | nvz | you're gonna need dependencies |
| 06:43.37 | n-iCe | Oh man |
| 06:43.38 | nvz | ,depends centi |
| 06:43.39 | judd | No package named 'centi' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 06:43.41 | n-iCe | This got complicated |
| 06:43.54 | nvz | ,depends ceni |
| 06:43.55 | judd | Package ceni in buster/amd64 -- depends: perl, libcurses-ui-perl, libexpect-perl, libterm-readkey-perl, ifupdown, wpasupplicant. |
| 06:43.56 | n-iCe | I think I'm just going to back to slitaz |
| 06:44.12 | nvz | only perl and wpasupplicant are in std |
| 06:44.18 | Logg | it takes a long time to copy all those deb files but it could be done. What could also be done is to just use the tutorial on how to use wpasupplicant... :D |
| 06:44.28 | n-iCe | Can I use my phone to share internet to my laptop? With installing nothing? |
| 06:44.38 | nvz | or to have installed more than std install |
| 06:45.04 | n-iCe | Thing is I have just 1gb ram old processor just want openbox and a distr |
| 06:45.04 | Logg | or maybe you could like, live cd and chroot into your std install |
| 06:45.09 | n-iCe | Distro |
| 06:45.12 | nvz | you do realize you could've used expert mode install or dropped into a console, chrooted into the install and done apt install whatever the hell you wanted |
| 06:45.20 | *** join/#debian zst (~z@unaffiliated/zst) |
| 06:45.33 | n-iCe | No I don't |
| 06:45.33 | nvz | but you chose to install the bare minimum and are now bitching about it :P |
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| 06:46.24 | nvz | http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/buster/Standard/pkgs.html you have 345 packages |
| 06:47.12 | n-iCe | Used my phone |
| 06:47.15 | n-iCe | Now I have internet |
| 06:47.20 | Logg | neat. |
| 06:48.23 | nvz | you could've installed network-manager, wicd, ceni, something |
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| 06:48.39 | n-iCe | How? If I don't had internet. |
| 06:48.46 | nvz | you had internet during the install |
| 06:48.55 | nvz | when you told it to just give you the bare bones :P |
| 06:48.58 | n-iCe | I'm not an expert. |
| 06:49.03 | n-iCe | Did not know that |
| 06:49.11 | nvz | well, now ya know :D |
| 06:49.43 | nvz | back in the day I recall dselect being available to do individual package selection during install |
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| 06:50.01 | rozie | 1GB may be not enough for web browsing. browsers are heavy now... |
| 06:50.04 | nvz | these days its just tasksel or execute a shell and do it manually |
| 06:50.57 | nvz | 4GB is minimum in my opinion for a minimally comfortable gui browsing experience |
| 06:51.27 | alexanderyanin | how abount w3m? :) |
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| 06:51.29 | nvz | if you wanna use crap like dillo, links2, w3m, luakit, etc.. you can get away with 512M-1G |
| 06:51.55 | nvz | but your browsing experience is gonna be slightly less than comfortable |
| 06:52.12 | nvz | rendering issues, etc.. |
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| 06:53.02 | nvz | a year or so ago before google and others started using all this multi-stage login crap instead of just a form with user/pass/login button, you could even login to sites with things like links2, dillo, etc |
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| 06:53.11 | nvz | now basic crap like that doesnt even work |
| 06:53.13 | n-iCe | Ok I installed openbox menu and write exec openbox-session to xinitrc |
| 06:53.22 | n-iCe | I use starx and says command not found |
| 06:53.30 | n-iCe | I'm using https://wiki.debian.org/es/Openbox |
| 06:53.37 | nvz | startx |
| 06:53.45 | nvz | or xinit |
| 06:53.47 | n-iCe | Yes, did not work |
| 06:54.01 | nvz | you said starx |
| 06:54.01 | n-iCe | Both are not found |
| 06:54.03 | nvz | starx wont work :P |
| 06:54.06 | n-iCe | Startx |
| 06:54.09 | nvz | ,depends openbox |
| 06:54.10 | judd | Package openbox in buster/amd64 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.4), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.35.9), libice6 (>= 1:1.0.0), libobrender32v5 (>= 3.6.0), libobt2v5 (>= 3.6.0), libsm6, libstartup-notification0 (>= 0.7), libx11-6, libxau6, libxcursor1 (>> 1.1.2), libxext6, libxi6 (>= 2:1.2.99.4), libxinerama1, libxrandr2. |
| 06:54.12 | n-iCe | Does not work |
| 06:54.18 | n-iCe | I installed openbox package |
| 06:54.41 | jm_ | you need more than that, i.e. x server |
| 06:54.50 | n-iCe | O.o |
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| 06:55.13 | n-iCe | Site does not say that |
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| 06:55.19 | Logg | you need X to startx lol |
| 06:55.20 | nvz | ,why openbox xserver-xorg-core |
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| 06:55.21 | jm_ | the do-it-easy-install-all is apt install xorg |
| 06:55.32 | judd | No dependency chain found between packages openbox and xserver-xorg-core in buster/amd64. |
| 06:55.32 | nvz | ,i xorg |
| 06:55.33 | judd | Package xorg (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: X.Org X Window System. Version: 1:7.7+19; Size: 37.5k; Installed: 52k; Homepage: http://www.x.org/ |
| 06:55.36 | jm_ | but if you want to trim it down you can do that too |
| 06:55.56 | nvz | ,file bin/xinit |
| 06:56.00 | judd | Search for bin/xinit in buster/amd64: xinit: usr/bin/xinit |
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| 06:56.08 | nvz | ,file bin/startx |
| 06:56.12 | judd | Search for bin/startx in buster/amd64: xinit: usr/bin/startx |
| 06:56.17 | n-iCe | What? |
| 06:56.21 | n-iCe | I don't understand |
| 06:56.23 | nvz | ,why openbox xinit |
| 06:56.28 | judd | No dependency chain found between packages openbox and xinit in buster/amd64. |
| 06:56.41 | n-iCe | What else should I install then |
| 06:56.44 | n-iCe | Xorg? |
| 06:56.50 | nvz | n-iCe: openbox is an X11 client application, a GUI.. it requires an X11 server to run |
| 06:56.57 | n-iCe | Which is xorg? |
| 06:57.03 | nvz | n-iCe: thats one example |
| 06:57.23 | n-iCe | Installing |
| 06:58.19 | nvz | there is also wayland, tigervnc-standalone-server |
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| 07:02.01 | n-iCe | Done |
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| 07:02.39 | nvz | you should probably install a terminal too |
| 07:02.46 | nvz | ,why xorg xterm |
| 07:02.49 | n-iCe | Ok brb |
| 07:02.54 | judd | Packages xorg and xterm in buster/amd64 are linked by 2 chains: xorg ⶠxterm; xorg ⶠxinit ⷠxterm |
| 07:03.07 | nvz | hmm guess xterm is included |
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| 07:03.11 | n-iCe | Done Im here! |
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| 07:05.22 | n-iCe | wicd is good_ |
| 07:05.28 | n-iCe | damn my keyboard is wrong |
| 07:05.48 | nvz | its a nice interface.. but its really crap |
| 07:06.01 | n-iCe | which one do you recommend |
| 07:06.05 | n-iCe | lightweight of course |
| 07:06.22 | nvz | for you, thats probably the simplest approach |
| 07:06.31 | n-iCe | ok good |
| 07:06.49 | n-iCe | any package name to edit my zone time, ketboard layout_ |
| 07:06.52 | n-iCe | ? |
| 07:07.05 | nvz | dpkg-reconfigure tzdata |
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| 07:07.24 | n-iCe | done, was ok. |
| 07:07.33 | n-iCe | and keyboard? |
| 07:07.46 | n-iCe | I selected latin america in installation no idea why it changed |
| 07:08.02 | nvz | um.. idk.. dpkg-reconfigure console-setup |
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| 07:09.02 | nvz | dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration |
| 07:09.08 | alexanderyanin | Wow! Are you sure you're installing Debian? I've never encountered such a question before during the installation. |
| 07:09.29 | nvz | alexanderyanin: ? |
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| 07:10.09 | n-iCe | nvz: it is selected, but keyboard is still wrong |
| 07:10.35 | nvz | n-iCe: did you adjust both console-setup and keyboard-configuration? |
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| 07:10.42 | n-iCe | yes |
| 07:10.43 | alexanderyanin | Simply installing Debian is so easy that even a child can handle it. Or have I missed something and it's some kind of supercomputer? |
| 07:10.47 | Logg | i have to use loadkeys sometimes but it's only temporary |
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| 07:11.26 | nvz | alexanderyanin: if you're referring to n-iCe they chose to install the bare minimum, are inexperienced with debian, and piecing together a custom lightweight system |
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| 07:12.24 | alexanderyanin | nvz: Ð! Okay! Okay! |
| 07:13.09 | n-iCe | Logg: but why is this happening, if it is correctly selected, indeed if I change tty is ok, keyboard is only wrong in openbox |
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| 07:13.35 | alexanderyanin | nvz: Maybe we should have taken another distribution for this purpose. With more flexible installation options... |
| 07:13.42 | nvz | console and X are two totally different things |
| 07:14.01 | n-iCe | yeah, thing is how do I change keyboard layout for X |
| 07:14.03 | n-iCe | hehe |
| 07:14.10 | nvz | alexanderyanin: debian has lots of flexible installation options.. you just have to know what you're doing to know what to use and how to use it |
| 07:14.19 | n-iCe | is there any package file to manage that |
| 07:14.54 | nvz | !x keymap |
| 07:15.01 | nvz | !xkeymap |
| 07:15.01 | alexanderyanin | nvz: well, okay. |
| 07:16.01 | nvz | n-iCe: did you restart X/openbox after doing dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration? |
| 07:16.16 | n-iCe | nvz: not really, let me do it. |
| 07:16.37 | n-iCe | im installing midori browser, found it is pretty lightweight |
| 07:17.04 | nvz | yeah its decent at rendering too, but fugly looking |
| 07:17.53 | n-iCe | brb rebooting |
| 07:18.13 | alexanderyanin | n-iCe: try Pale Moon |
| 07:18.39 | nvz | goes to bang rocks with wpa_supplicant himself since all this support has distracted him to the point he forgot to install the firmware-amd-graphics |
| 07:19.16 | nvz | oh nm.. I actually have nmcli :P |
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| 07:19.21 | Jmabsd | re libvirt (because their channel sleeps): the "virsh --connect" affects the operating environment *how*? because i figure that that connection remains until subsequent virsh calls during the same shell sessions, so somehow there's a latent connection.. not in an OS environment variable. in some temp file?? |
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| 07:19.41 | n-iCe | done! worked! |
| 07:19.46 | n-iCe | keyboard is ok now. |
| 07:21.09 | nvz | I've heard opera is really good too, but not in debian, has to be installed from upstream repo |
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| 07:23.26 | alexanderyanin | On my old netbook with Atom processor and 1 GB RAM, the current version of Firefox feels quite good |
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| 07:35.17 | jm_ | Jmabsd: --connect allows you to connect to qemu:///system instead of the default qemu:///session |
| 07:35.51 | jm_ | see https://libvirt.org/uri.html for more details |
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| 07:41.35 | Jmabsd | jm_: right but what does this "connection" actually consists of? |
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| 07:42.38 | jm_ | Jmabsd: it tells the command which instance to connect to, i.e. you can have system wide VM-s, or per-user VM-s |
| 07:43.01 | Jmabsd | sure but i think after the command complets, you go back to Unix shell, and then do another "virsh" call, |
| 07:43.11 | Jmabsd | that subsequent virsh call will "remember" the connect setting of the last virsh call |
| 07:43.56 | jm_ | naah |
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| 07:58.39 | Jmabsd | jm_: doesn't it? i'm quite sure it does |
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| 08:00.31 | jm_ | Jmabsd: not for me it doesn't: https://paste.debian.net/1120619/ |
| 08:01.38 | Jmabsd | jm_: very interesting!!! hm!! i think on my latest Debian it does, but i can be mistaken |
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| 08:07.09 | Logg | nvz, it only took two hours but the results are in. :-) https://i.imgur.com/N8uyU6N.jpg I'm seeing an incredible 52% idle memory increase!! but I've gained 33MHz so that's nice |
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| 08:09.58 | Logg | yo does anyone know how to get my font back to this font in the tty: https://i.imgur.com/N8uyU6N.jpg it looked nicer before. :D |
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| 08:11.27 | Logg | also curious why I would have gone from 244 MB available to 177 MiB |
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| 08:15.16 | jm_ | Logg: consolechars command can be used to load custom fonts, dpkg-reconfigure console-setup for permanent config |
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| 08:19.59 | Logg | jm_, yeah that did it. https://i.imgur.com/lI0psTi.jpg Too bad about the 50% memory increase, but i'm sure those 10 MB are going to a good cause |
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| 08:21.36 | Logg | (also no one knows why I might have lost 55MiB aka 58MB of RAM from updating?) |
| 08:22.26 | Logg | i blame systemd |
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| 08:23.37 | jm_ | maybe tools like smem can help |
| 08:25.08 | wrksx | Hey there. Is this possible to get insights about upcomming package releases for stable? The current mariadb server version has an annoying 'feature regression' (at least for me) that's apparently been fixed on later releases. |
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| 08:27.28 | wrksx | I can see that testing has the mariadb-server=1:10.3.20-1 |
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| 08:30.28 | wrksx | Can someone help me understand how packages are upgraded on the stable version? |
| 08:31.17 | nvz | Logg: yeah.. buster is way beefier than stretch was.. |
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| 08:34.52 | Logg | smem does seem to confirm systemd as culprit |
| 08:35.04 | ratrace | wrksx: in general, they aren't for the lifecycle of the release. however, point releases may bring in version bumps for some packages, where deemed necessary. |
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| 08:35.16 | ratrace | Logg: in what way? |
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| 08:35.53 | ratrace | wrksx: also, fixes for bugs may be backported. ideally you should file a bug report and see what the maintainers have to say. |
| 08:36.01 | nvz | debian gnu/systemd :P |
| 08:36.12 | ratrace | and which kernel? |
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| 08:36.19 | ratrace | or you meant systemd/linux :) |
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| 08:37.11 | Logg | ratrace, see https://i.imgur.com/N8uyU6N.jpg vs https://i.imgur.com/lI0psTi.jpg |
| 08:37.40 | ratrace | Logg: yeh, but that doesn't say anything. how do you know it's systemd? |
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| 08:37.47 | ratrace | (and by that, do you mean PID 1 or what?) |
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| 08:38.13 | Logg | the system crashed when i ran `lshw -class memory`, I'll show smem when it comes back up lol |
| 08:38.23 | ratrace | neofetch output is hardly a reliable tool for system benchmarking |
| 08:38.40 | Logg | shows the same thing in top |
| 08:39.04 | ratrace | which memory is that? there's several types in Linux |
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| 08:39.46 | Logg | "used" lol. |
| 08:39.55 | wrksx | ratrace: thanks ratrace. The situation is not so clear now regarding if it has been fixed or not, so i'll keep on investingating this with @mariadb first |
| 08:39.57 | ratrace | ideally you should look up the "available" column from `free` as that represents memory that is either free or tied in page cache and available if a process explicitly malloc's it |
| 08:41.11 | Logg | ratrace, https://i.imgur.com/L8nPtSE.jpg |
| 08:41.24 | Logg | all i know is the "used" memory is higher, and the "total" memory is lower |
| 08:41.43 | ratrace | ah "total" being lower puts a blame on the kernel |
| 08:42.01 | Logg | Hmmm |
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| 08:42.30 | ratrace | really, use the `free` tool for measuring that, or look directly into /proc/meminfo |
| 08:43.10 | wrksx | ratrace: regarding the upgrades, what do you mean by point release? I'm not familiar with that term. The package was 10.3.17, upgraded to 10.3.18 recently. |
| 08:43.36 | ratrace | wrksx: Debian point releases, we're currently at 10.2 (second point release) for Debian 10 (Buster) |
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| 08:44.26 | Logg | free output: https://i.imgur.com/EDYOa3k.jpg |
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| 08:45.42 | ratrace | Logg: nice. |
| 08:46.04 | wrksx | ratrace: ok, so if I get this correctly that means that my package might be upgraded when moving to the next point release, probably 10.3, is that right? |
| 08:46.04 | ratrace | that's meminfo btw |
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| 08:46.53 | ratrace | wrksx: might, might not, depends on maintainers intentions and how much new/breaking stuff would new version bring |
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| 08:47.45 | wrksx | ratrace: ok I get that too. Now is there a public roadmap on point versions? like do we have an expected date for the next point release? |
| 08:48.23 | hummingbee | well |
| 08:48.24 | Logg | oh right, i got distracted lol. here's `free` https://i.imgur.com/AGS0fP2.jpg |
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| 08:50.54 | ratrace | wrksx: not quite a roadmap, but there's the proposed-updates repo, which is an indication what's coming up. https://www.debian.org/releases/proposed-updates |
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| 08:51.36 | ratrace | wrksx: I really think you should file a bug report and state what the bug is, which version has it fixed and see what the maintainers will say, whether it's backportable or requires a SRU (stable release update) |
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| 08:52.25 | ratrace | Logg: cool. |
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| 08:53.00 | wrksx | ratrace: will file the bug on the mariadb jira first, to make sure that's considered a bug by the devs, else it's no use bothering the maintainer. |
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| 08:53.26 | wrksx | ratrace: if it's confirmed fixed I'll get in touch. |
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| 08:53.31 | wrksx | ratrace: thanks for the help |
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| 09:14.09 | _BlackDragon42 | Hello. |
| 09:14.37 | diogenes_ | hello |
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| 09:16.32 | rick | hey |
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| 09:35.04 | jelly | ,v netdata |
| 09:35.05 | judd | Package: netdata on amd64 -- buster: 1.12.0-1+deb10u1; bullseye: 1.19.0-1; sid: 1.19.0-2 |
| 09:35.15 | jelly | ,i netdata |
| 09:35.16 | judd | Package netdata (net, optional) in buster/amd64: real-time performance monitoring (metapackage). Version: 1.12.0-1+deb10u1; Size: 34.1k; Installed: 57k; Homepage: https://github.com/netdata/netdata; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/netdata |
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| 09:40.47 | SwedeMike | I'm trying to get whatever virt-manager uses to work together with hugepages (I still don't know if I should call it qemu or libvirt) on debian10. I have hugepages set up and allocated, I have read several articles, I have edited the xml file for the guest, I have checked the hugetlbfs, permissions. There weirdly enough doesn't seem any really good guides on this. Anyone have any pointers? |
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| 09:44.29 | jelly | google-chrome-stable changelog file is hilariously useless |
| 09:44.31 | jelly | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:53.10 | tarzeau | jelly: it's not by debian officially neither |
| 09:54.03 | tarzeau | jelly: the same applies to teamviewer, google-earth-pro, dropbox, microsoft code, cuda... |
| 09:54.40 | tarzeau | be glad debian doesn't enforce snaps (without changelogs? sometimes even without a license information) on its users (like canonical/ubuntu does) |
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| 09:55.52 | jelly | snaps are a good idea but it seems canonical has forgotten you actually need packaging policies regardless of the format |
| 09:56.12 | tarzeau | snaps suck if your computer runs all the time, and the software as well |
| 09:56.32 | tarzeau | linux doesn't handle software/libraries or binaries to be replaced on the filesystem (nor kernel drivers) |
| 09:57.30 | r3m1 | hello |
| 09:57.39 | ratrace | canonical hasn't forgotten, that's the whole idea of snaps, to get rid of policy making, decisions, maintainership. here you go, vendors, a tool you can deliver your software with. kthnxbai. |
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| 09:58.31 | tarzeau | ratrace: it's wrong to advertise outdated snaps software, when there's better maintainer/more up to date, unencombered versions of native packages |
| 09:58.59 | tarzeau | ratrace: the sad thing about it all is, software developers agree with canonical and go for snap (flathub, appimage) |
| 09:59.03 | r3m1 | question about rsyslog. I have a program that is logging tons of messages that kind of pollutes my syslog that I have to check. I follwed this article https://www.golinuxhub.com/2017/12/how-to-redirect-specific-log-messages.html to redirect outputs of this program to a specific file |
| 09:59.16 | tarzeau | which sometimes completely breaks install targets of build systems on github in master branches, and nobody cares |
| 09:59.24 | r3m1 | after following this article, messages of the program are properly redirected, but also still in syslog |
| 09:59.36 | tarzeau | r3m1: can you post an example log entry of that? |
| 10:00.19 | r3m1 | Dec 11 10:49:28 rvieux-QX-250-Series cut-modbus-server[4899]: Modbus loop |
| 10:01.03 | r3m1 | so in my .conf I did if $programname == "cut-modbus-server" |
| 10:01.19 | tarzeau | r3m1: do you stop the loggin before or after 50-default.conf rsyslog.d? |
| 10:01.35 | tarzeau | r3m1: if you do it afterwards it gets sent over network, before not. that's the trick |
| 10:01.38 | r3m1 | then /var/log/modbus-server.log & stop Is the stop supposed to stop loggin to syslog ? |
| 10:01.59 | tarzeau | r3m1: what is your filter file called? sub 50-default.conf or after? or in 50-default.conf? |
| 10:02.02 | r3m1 | tarzeau: I dont know :( how can I know ? |
| 10:02.22 | tarzeau | r3m1: ls -l /etc/rsyslog.d |
| 10:02.37 | r3m1 | it is call modbus-server.conf without prefix |
| 10:02.43 | r3m1 | called* |
| 10:03.16 | tarzeau | r3m1: can you call it 25-modbus-server.conf and retry? |
| 10:03.24 | r3m1 | sure |
| 10:04.31 | ratrace | tarzeau: in general, snaps are not outdated, and just like with maintained "native" packages, some can become outdated, yes. |
| 10:04.44 | r3m1 | tarzeau: works like a charm. thanks ! :) |
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| 10:05.33 | tarzeau | r3m1: maybe worth a note in rsyslogd package README.Debian ? |
| 10:05.59 | tarzeau | ratrace: https://snapcraft.io/cloudcompare outdated by two versions |
| 10:06.02 | tarzeau | just one of MANY |
| 10:06.42 | ratrace | tarzeau: how many? |
| 10:06.53 | tarzeau | A LOT, many :) |
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| 10:07.03 | ratrace | tarzeau: name ten :) |
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| 10:08.35 | tarzeau | ratrace: https://snapcraft.io/olive-editor |
| 10:09.12 | tarzeau | the snapcraft.io/store doesn't have a way to list them all? how retarded, i have snap completely removed |
| 10:10.29 | ratrace | but then how do you know that "many" are outdated :) yeah, some are. not unlike the "Universe". Same problems plague all software delivery systems. |
| 10:11.12 | tarzeau | creating new packaging systems (rpm!) is not solving problems |
| 10:11.29 | ratrace | the real problem with snaps is what jelly said, no policy (which IS the goal of snaps, hence it's a design issue). Software vendors are not necessarily good maintainers. |
| 10:11.32 | tarzeau | ratrace: i'm installing retarded snap now to list you more |
| 10:11.52 | tarzeau | ratrace: i know it from the snap advertisements on twitter (checking if deb pkg is newer/availabe or not) |
| 10:11.59 | ratrace | tarzeau: you don't have to, that was just a point I was trying to make |
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| 10:12.47 | ratrace | another problem with snaps is that anyone can sign up and submit ANY package which then appears in your "snap list". like, "fastest-turbo-firefox-totally-not-malware-yeah-pls-install-kthxnbai" |
| 10:13.04 | Haohmaru | why aren't there links to official website of program author on that snap thing? |
| 10:13.06 | Haohmaru | boo |
| 10:13.12 | ratrace | Haohmaru: there are, where available |
| 10:13.21 | ratrace | no enforcement, no policy to enforce. |
| 10:13.25 | Haohmaru | well, this olive-editor certainly has a website |
| 10:13.29 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: because it's retarded |
| 10:13.38 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: i'd recommend using the debian package |
| 10:13.54 | tarzeau | ratrace: they even accept software without telling what license it is |
| 10:13.55 | Haohmaru | i don't like these "store" things |
| 10:13.57 | ratrace | I'd use a snap only if I can't have it any other way. |
| 10:14.01 | Haohmaru | i like synaptic |
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| 10:14.13 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: and gnome-software ? |
| 10:14.18 | vlt | jm_: Hello. Where can I find instructions how to create a customized debian-live image? |
| 10:14.20 | tarzeau | it's a store thing without web store |
| 10:14.22 | Haohmaru | i HATE gnome |
| 10:14.23 | ratrace | tarzeau: "they" don't care, "they" are just a delivery platform, they don't _want_ to care, that's teh whole point of it |
| 10:14.43 | Haohmaru | synaptic only |
| 10:14.44 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: kde has also something like it, forgot its name, all based on some freedesktop.org "standard" |
| 10:14.55 | Haohmaru | don't like kde either |
| 10:15.01 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: my friend :) |
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| 10:16.06 | tarzeau | lovely https://twitter.com/BrucePerens/status/1197919230491942912 |
| 10:16.11 | vlt | jm_: I found https://www.debian.org/CD/live/ but nothing on there about customizing. |
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| 10:17.26 | ratrace | tarzeau: guess what, neither sysv nor openrc are qualified either. back before systemd, I had to use supervisord to actually make software a bit more reliable. |
| 10:17.51 | tarzeau | ratrace: with or without watchdog? |
| 10:18.42 | ratrace | thing is, none of software we use is "qualified for space"... those are special systems with triple or quadruple redundancy and ability to flash everything remotely. bruce is just full of .... yeah I kow "who" he is. doesn't change that fact. |
| 10:18.51 | Haohmaru | my cat supervises my systemd so i'm safe for now |
| 10:19.55 | ratrace | tarzeau: and who watchdogs the watchdog ;) |
| 10:20.15 | Haohmaru | u need a good cat for that |
| 10:20.29 | Haohmaru | redundancy - they say they got 9 lives |
| 10:20.54 | tarzeau | ratrace: ;) the hardware watchdog watches the software watchdog which keeps trying to /usr/bin/repair whatever |
| 10:21.14 | tarzeau | ratrace: linux is not qualified as a reliant system, wiht it's oom problems |
| 10:21.38 | ratrace | tarzeau: eggs actly. |
| 10:21.52 | ratrace | Haohmaru: lol! |
| 10:21.53 | Haohmaru | yeah, shouldn't you like.. write some baremetal if you're sending it to space |
| 10:22.22 | Haohmaru | OS is complex, thus moar places for bugs |
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| 10:22.45 | ratrace | someone should tell bruce that the vast majority of internet these days is powered by systemd, by virtue of vast majority of it being powered by ubuntus, centoses, RHELs and debians. |
| 10:22.53 | ratrace | hasn't collapsed yet. |
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| 10:24.12 | ratrace | and yet he picks out an example that's not a strawman, but a mega straw kaiju mecha! |
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| 10:24.38 | Haohmaru | nano technology straw? |
| 10:27.38 | ratrace | Haohmaru: as long as it's artificial and standing there in the field looking dumb and making birds laugh. :) |
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| 10:40.11 | iant | hiu |
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| 10:44.03 | jm_ | vlt: have you found live manual? |
| 10:44.43 | jm_ | vlt: https://live-team.pages.debian.net/live-manual/ |
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| 10:45.37 | vlt | jm_: Thanks! :) |
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| 10:46.50 | jm_ | vlt: no problem |
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| 12:25.45 | dka | Is someone here able to tell me the difference between https://mesosphere.github.io/marathon/docs/readiness-checks.html and https://mesosphere.github.io/marathon/docs/health-checks.html ? |
| 12:27.10 | Fox | dka: maybe you should ask on #marathon |
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| 12:28.05 | Fox | but anyway: health_check -> check if system is ok, readiness-check -> waits until the system is ok before to notice you |
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| 12:44.17 | dka | thanks |
| 12:46.37 | Regor | i added partition and its working fine..but i dont see trash option.. as i get in all partitions https://paste.debian.net/1120647/ |
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| 12:56.06 | Regor | i added partition and its working fine..but i dont see trash option.. as i get in all partitions https://paste.debian.net/1120647/ |
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| 13:00.50 | a9-airbase | anyone else? |
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| 13:10.50 | a9-airbase | anyone else? |
| 13:11.53 | Haohmaru | a9-airbase hm? |
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| 13:12.35 | a9-airbase | what's going on haohmaru? |
| 13:12.43 | Haohmaru | you tell me |
| 13:13.10 | Haohmaru | that's what i thought |
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| 13:17.53 | dob1 | can I match with iptables source or destination or I need 2 rules? |
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| 13:19.49 | antonioitaliano | iptables -I INPUT -p tcp -s XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX -j ACCEPT |
| 13:19.49 | antonioitaliano | <PROTECTED> |
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| 13:20.15 | dob1 | ok 2 rules |
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| 13:30.46 | dka | How can I check if a port is reachable on "Linux dka 4.19.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.67-2+deb10u2 (2019-11-11) x86_64 Linux" ? |
| 13:31.00 | dka | Without needing dependencies |
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| 13:33.08 | dka | find why. |
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| 13:34.21 | joepublic | if it's your machine, you could port scan. If not, you should ask the system's administrator. |
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| 13:35.39 | ksk | dka: on another host, you could use netcat for example, like "netcat (-v) host port" - legal questions aside. |
| 13:36.03 | dka | I don't get why i can reach my service but traefik can't reverse proxy, gateway timeout |
| 13:36.07 | ksk | or nmap, or.. |
| 13:36.44 | ksk | dka: you can reach the backend on the host traefik runs on? |
| 13:36.57 | dka | yes |
| 13:37.19 | ksk | mhhm, then sounds kinda like you configured your reverse proxy incorrectly ;) |
| 13:37.39 | dka | Well. it's the first time I configure it so I believe that's correct. |
| 13:37.51 | dka | I have tested traefik just before. but with a different provider |
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| 13:38.20 | dka | I was testing locally all the feature I needed with docker provider. and it required a docker network to bypass the gateway issue. ALl service proxied needed to be on that same network. |
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| 13:38.33 | dka | Now I want to test in a production like environment, which use marathon. |
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| 13:39.14 | dka | I have my marathon host with a deployed app, I can see the service in the traefik dashboard, but can't reach it. I have switched my host in network_mode : host, so I have the same network as the guest OS. Normally there should be no gateway |
| 13:39.47 | dka | I have not change anything else since my tests with docker provider so where is the misconfiguration hidding ? Does marathon also require a private docker network ? |
| 13:39.56 | dka | I don't think so. It should just work |
| 13:40.25 | ksk | dka: a 504 Gateway Timeout is in regards to "the backend as gateway for the request that is coming in" not as in "gateway in an IP scenario" |
| 13:40.57 | dka | I know, the service can't be seen |
| 13:41.03 | ksk | plus plus for docker btw (not.) |
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| 13:44.43 | dka | I have this error when using network mode BRIDGE: time="2019-12-11T13:44:20Z" level=debug msg="'504 Gateway Timeout' caused by: dial tcp 212.95.74.75:31400: i/o timeout" |
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| 13:45.17 | dka | the ip is from my ISP, the port is from my marathon host in the LAN |
| 13:45.23 | dka | can't work. |
| 13:45.46 | dka | If I use the network_mode: "HOST", I have then a shared network between guest OS and container OS |
| 13:46.08 | dka | same error: reverse-proxy_1 | time="2019-12-11T13:45:56Z" level=debug msg="'504 Gateway Timeout' caused by: dial tcp 212.95.74.75:31400: i/o timeout" |
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| 13:49.05 | ksk | dka: you seem to be missing basic networking concepts? |
| 13:49.32 | ksk | If that is your external IP, and your container has some sort of internal IP, you will need NAT to make it work. |
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| 13:49.43 | ksk | or some port forwardings. |
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| 13:50.46 | whislock | (which is NAT ;) |
| 13:51.08 | ksk | dka: for example, I use something like "#iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i docker-br0 -p tcp -d x.x.x.x/32 --dport 80 -j DNAT --to 10.0.0.23" |
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| 13:51.57 | nyov | Is there a nice command which lists installed packages grouped by apt source repo? |
| 13:54.27 | nyov | it can also be a bad command. just something |
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| 13:56.14 | humbot | that would be a long list |
| 13:56.47 | humbot | aptitude ncurses lists everything by repo and section |
| 13:56.56 | dka | ksk, I know networking concept |
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| 13:57.13 | dka | the issue here is that it try to dial an ip which is outside of my network. I have never provided that IP |
| 13:57.23 | dka | It's not even my wan IP |
| 13:57.46 | humbot | lawdy |
| 13:57.59 | whislock | wat |
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| 13:59.15 | nyov | humbot: I hoped aptitude had a view like this but couldn't find anything, can you tell me where? |
| 13:59.39 | whislock | nyov: Looking into this, hold on. |
| 14:00.05 | nyov | I found this: grep ^Package /var/lib/apt/lists/repository-name*_Packages | awk '{print $2}' | sort -u |
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| 14:00.25 | JonelethIrenicus | what are some of the biggest differences between debian and ubuntu? |
| 14:01.10 | whislock | JonelethIrenicus: That's sort of a subjective question based on what people want out of either distro. You're not likely to get good answers to that, sadly. |
| 14:01.34 | JonelethIrenicus | whislock, i mean technically though not subjective things. |
| 14:01.57 | JonelethIrenicus | sorry should of specified |
| 14:02.30 | JonelethIrenicus | i already noticed small things in some documentation like using aptitude |
| 14:02.40 | whislock | In many ways they're very similar. Debian has an increased focus on stability over the long-term. |
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| 14:06.53 | ksk | ubuntu has somewhat newer software version. and a somewhat less good security support, me as a debian advocate would say ;) |
| 14:07.15 | ksk | but thats rather subjective, dont really have facts to back that up. |
| 14:08.17 | ksk | also, ubuntu is trying to differentiate itself from debian (And other distros) by inventing something fancy new (upstart, their discontinued desktop, lxd...) |
| 14:08.26 | ksk | which they then drop after not getting a big enough userbase. |
| 14:08.52 | nyov | *cough*ubuntu phone*cough* |
| 14:08.53 | whislock | I wouldn't agree that Ubuntu's security support is somehow lesser. |
| 14:09.05 | whislock | They have both Debian and Canonical's own efforts to draw from. |
| 14:09.06 | jelly | ksk: snap ? |
| 14:09.15 | ksk | jelly: eeeh :D |
| 14:09.34 | jelly | upstart got quite a userbase with RHEL6 / CentOS6 |
| 14:09.36 | whislock | ksk: Like it or not, snap exists. |
| 14:09.46 | whislock | And I was just about to mention upstart, thanks. |
| 14:10.02 | jelly | not that it matters, I 100% agree with the sentiment |
| 14:10.08 | ksk | whislock: that sounds reasonable. It was more in the lines of me remembering something like "Not every package in the main ubuntu repo gets securiy support" in contrast to how debian manages it - but I might totally be mistaken here |
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| 14:10.56 | jelly | ksk: only packages in main repo get security support. that's a 2-3 thousand source packages. Debian tries to security support everything. |
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| 14:11.01 | whislock | ksk: That is also incorrect. |
| 14:11.21 | whislock | ksk: Every package in main and restricted is directly supported by the ubuntu security team for the entire life of the release. |
| 14:11.33 | ksk | whislock: okay, thanks :) |
| 14:11.40 | jelly | but they break things more often than debian |
| 14:11.43 | jelly | even in LTS |
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| 14:12.32 | jelly | (they also fix breakages reasonably quickly, but is still unsafe to apply security patches blindly on prod. systems; that hardly ever happens with debian) |
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| 15:01.40 | ws2k3 | i wanne add this ip 172.30.121.89/20 ip to ens5 interface how would i do that? i think i should use the ip command? |
| 15:02.24 | section1 | yes |
| 15:02.35 | jelly | ws2k3: permatently or temporarily (until next reboot or you remove it)? Temporarily, yes, use ip addr add ... |
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| 15:08.52 | ws2k3 | jelly: ip addr add 172.30.121.89 dev ens5 dont i need to define a subnet? |
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| 15:09.43 | jelly | ws2k3: use cidr format instead of just ip |
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| 15:10.11 | jelly | man ip-address |
| 15:10.41 | greycat | I'm reading ip-address(8) right now. You know what is NOT in this man page, anywhere at all, not even once? The words "netmask", "cidr" or "CIDR". |
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| 15:10.53 | greycat | or even "mask" |
| 15:11.11 | jelly | sighs |
| 15:11.17 | ws2k3 | ah so just: ip addr add 172.30.121.89/20 dev ens5 |
| 15:11.19 | greycat | a forward slash appears in two of the examples, both ipv6, and that's *it* |
| 15:11.32 | greycat | just utterly terrible documentation |
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| 15:11.55 | jelly | welcome to linux, we accept patches maybe? |
| 15:12.07 | greycat | In my experience, no, people do not accept patches to documentation. |
| 15:12.12 | jelly | ws2k3: that looks okay |
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| 15:18.21 | JonelethIrenicus | good information thanks |
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| 15:22.08 | ws2k3 | jelly i added it but it doesnt look the same as ip's that are already on the interface |
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| 15:23.00 | ws2k3 | jelly: on ip's already on the interface i see inet 172.30.119.233/20 brd 172.30.127.255 scope global secondary ens5 |
| 15:23.01 | ws2k3 | but on the ip i added i see inet 172.30.121.89/20 scope global secondary ens5 so im missing the brd not sure what that is |
| 15:24.02 | jelly | ws2k3: broadcast address will, I believe, default to the last address in range |
| 15:24.15 | whislock | It always will. |
| 15:24.31 | jelly | so 172.30.127.255 |
| 15:24.40 | ws2k3 | jelly: but if i desire can i still add it ? |
| 15:24.40 | whislock | ws2k3: There will only ever be one broadcast address on the interface, because there's only one broadcast address for the connected subnet. |
| 15:25.03 | jelly | ws2k3: you already have an IP adress in the same range and brd is listed there. |
| 15:25.19 | whislock | ws2k3: Making things look "the same" is never a good idea without understanding what you're looking at and what it represents. |
| 15:26.04 | jelly | 172.30.119.233/20 and 172.30.121.89/20 are in the same network/mask |
| 15:26.32 | jelly | ipcalc(1) is your friend :-) |
| 15:27.30 | whislock | 172.30.112.0/20, I think, is the network. |
| 15:27.49 | jelly | you don't have to think, ipcalc is there to tell you |
| 15:27.55 | whislock | ws2k3: So every single address in that network will all have the same broadcast address. That broadcast address is for the interface, not for the IP. |
| 15:28.00 | greycat | wooledg:~$ echo $((119 & 0xf0)) |
| 15:28.01 | greycat | 112 |
| 15:28.03 | jelly | should you choose to install it |
| 15:28.03 | greycat | Yup. |
| 15:28.13 | whislock | jelly: I don't choose to, because I don't need to rely on a crutch. |
| 15:28.22 | whislock | But thanks for telling me how to use apt and all that. |
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| 15:29.04 | jelly | whislock: that was not just for you, even if I commented on your line |
| 15:29.12 | whislock | jelly: That's fair. |
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| 15:31.39 | ws2k3 | whislock: interesting. cause i have like 5 ip's on there and all have the broadcast address set |
| 15:33.12 | greycat | The broadcast address can be calculated from the IP/netmask pair. The only reason ifconfig and other tools have the ability to specify a broadcast address AT ALL is because once upon a time many decades ago, some networks ran backwards, with the broadcast address all-zero instead of all-one. |
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| 15:33.53 | greycat | So, 99.99% of the time, you don't specify it, and don't bother paying attention to it. |
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| 15:36.03 | whislock | ws2k3: I just added 100 IPs to an interface. NONE of them have the broadcast address set except the primary. |
| 15:36.26 | ws2k3 | whislock: hmm odd then im not sure how they added ip's to this in the past ^^ |
| 15:36.27 | whislock | ws2k3: Any IP that says 'secondary' won't have a broadcast address. |
| 15:36.48 | jelly | ws2k3: are they all in the very same network or not? |
| 15:36.57 | ws2k3 | whislock: yes this is what my ip addr show looks like |
| 15:37.04 | Unline | hi there - after upgrading my kali system to the latest version - via full-upgrade - my usb wifi connection gets stuck on connecting and after a few seconds says : activation of network connection failed |
| 15:37.10 | greycat | !kali |
| 15:37.10 | dpkg | Kali Linux (http://www.kali.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on chat.freenode.net or http://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian>, and read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html |
| 15:37.11 | whislock | !kali |
| 15:37.27 | whislock | ws2k3: Are they being added via /e/n/i? |
| 15:37.32 | ws2k3 | whislock: https://paste.debian.net/1120665/ |
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| 15:37.50 | Unline | hi there - after upgrading my system to the latest version - via full-upgrade - my usb wifi connection gets stuck on connecting and after a few seconds says : activation of network connection failed |
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| 15:38.00 | whislock | Unline: Get out. |
| 15:38.07 | jelly | Unline: you're still in #debian, sorry |
| 15:38.12 | jelly | whislock: no need to be rude |
| 15:38.15 | Unline | why ? |
| 15:38.27 | Unline | its not kali |
| 15:38.30 | Unline | its a debian |
| 15:38.31 | whislock | Unline: Because you're trying to resort to intentional deception. |
| 15:38.32 | greycat | I think there is some cause to be rude here. |
| 15:38.32 | Unline | now help me |
| 15:38.38 | greycat | Yeeeeah. |
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| 15:38.55 | ratrace | ducks |
| 15:38.56 | whislock | jelly: Yes, there is entirely a need to be rude. You have a habit of trying to tell me how to speak/act. Stop. |
| 15:39.03 | jelly | oh, duh, sorry, rudeness is allowed in that case |
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| 15:39.24 | whislock | Back to support. |
| 15:39.31 | whislock | ws2k3: Could you show the contents of /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 15:39.42 | whislock | I wonder if the previous config was hard-coding broadcast addresses. |
| 15:39.56 | ws2k3 | whislock: i dont use interfaces i use interfaces.d with in there the interfaces files per interface |
| 15:40.07 | whislock | ws2k3: Same thing, essentially. Paste the relevant file? |
| 15:40.40 | ws2k3 | whislock: all the lines look like this iface ens5 inet static address 172.30.121.89/20 |
| 15:40.50 | ws2k3 | 2 lines for eatch ip |
| 15:40.52 | whislock | ws2k3: No broadcast addresses specified? |
| 15:40.59 | ws2k3 | nope only /20 |
| 15:41.08 | whislock | Okay, lemme dink around with this real quick. |
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| 15:42.46 | whislock | Huh, if you specify them like that, they do add a broadcast address to each one. |
| 15:42.48 | whislock | How weird. |
| 15:44.09 | ws2k3 | whislock: yes. but not if i added them by hand |
| 15:44.15 | ws2k3 | but if i use the interface file then yes |
| 15:44.22 | whislock | ws2k3: Want to see how I do this? It might help. |
| 15:44.31 | ws2k3 | whislock: sure |
| 15:44.36 | whislock | https://paste.debian.net/1120669/ |
| 15:44.47 | whislock | I use up/down instructions to add/remove secondary addresses. |
| 15:45.14 | ws2k3 | i see |
| 15:45.34 | whislock | There's a typo there, hold on. |
| 15:45.53 | whislock | https://paste.debian.net/1120671/ |
| 15:46.10 | whislock | Post-up adds the addresses after the interface is configured with its primary. pre-down removes the secondaries before bringing the interface down. |
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| 15:46.48 | jelly | whislock: [telling you how to speak/act] it was uncalled for this time, and I apologize. It's just part of wearing the op hat, I think some tone moderation is useful. |
| 15:47.31 | whislock | jelly: I sympathize with your plight, trust me. |
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| 15:47.53 | whislock | ws2k3: That method may yield better results. I hope the information helps. |
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| 15:49.43 | xlirate | I am trying to setup my laptop's backlight. xbacklight had no effect. I have found the /sys/class... files that control the backlight and have written a script that manages them. I am having an issue with permissions. Those files are marked read only on boot. I am trying to fix this by having a udev rule run the chmod a+w, but it doesn't seem to be |
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| 15:49.44 | xlirate | running. Can anyone offer some advice? |
| 15:49.49 | Akuw | is there a guide to configure a local repository_? |
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| 15:54.34 | xlirate | Rebooted to try something, but it didn't work |
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| 15:56.45 | jelly | Akuw: /msg dpkg own repo |
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| 17:13.55 | jhutchins_wk | I'm missing something obvious here - input file has three hosts but I only get the first one: while read host;do echo -e "\n$host" >> out;ssh user@$host ps ax >> out;done < t |
| 17:14.15 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: Oh bash master ^ |
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| 17:23.44 | jelly | jhutchins_wk: wfm: printf 'first\nsecond\nthird\n' > t; while read line; do echo got line "$line"; done < t |
| 17:24.06 | jelly | and I had to open bash for that, ew! |
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| 17:25.38 | mason | jelly: What do you normally run? |
| 17:25.52 | mason | Oh, probably dash for this? |
| 17:26.04 | jelly | zsh for interactive use |
| 17:26.50 | mason | jelly: Can you get zsh to take vi-mode and emacs-mode commands on the fly, intermixed? That was one of the things that stopped me from digging in, as I tend to intermix the two. |
| 17:26.51 | jelly | legacy from late 90s |
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| 17:27.02 | mason | bash lets you intermix the two |
| 17:27.11 | jelly | mason: no idea. Also, death to vi bindings. |
| 17:27.47 | jelly | vi bindings are what makes grml.org only ALMOST perfect live cd |
| 17:27.49 | mason | Well, ESC-d-d you! |
| 17:27.55 | mason | heh |
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| 17:28.26 | jelly | have to remember to bindkey -e each and every time |
| 17:29.07 | jelly | I just ^C the whole line if it's a loss :> |
| 17:29.35 | jelly | but dd would be useful doing some multiline thing I'll give you that |
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| 17:29.51 | mason | Arbitrary regions too. "dd`a |
| 17:29.57 | mason | (after ma, of course) |
| 17:30.19 | mason | This is where I fall down during holy wars. I tend to be fond of both sides of most of the questions. |
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| 17:32.07 | jelly | can't possibly comment on the editor he still uses daily |
| 17:32.29 | mason | That... makes me curious. |
| 17:32.40 | jelly | think wordstar |
| 17:33.45 | mason | jelly: JOE? |
| 17:34.13 | jelly | sssh, no yelling |
| 17:36.06 | GenTooMan | I have an interesting problem. When I am running Eclipse (java app) occasionally my X server crashes when I am using Eclipse, could this be a problem with openjdk? |
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| 17:37.36 | jelly | does it mostly crash at night, mostly? More seriously, do you also see memory exhaustion issues at the same time? |
| 17:38.20 | whislock | Okay, Cartman. |
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| 17:42.49 | GenTooMan | jelly well not that I am aware of, little swap memory (120MiB at the time used and 3GiB of available main memory left (7.5GiB of main memory) I happened to a bit before the sudden stop. I was debugging a wxPython application at the time (if that helps). |
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| 17:45.09 | jelly | 8G sounds quite enough for Eclipse |
| 17:45.44 | GenTooMan | I have the Xorg crash log if that is useful |
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| 17:47.34 | annadane | i don't suppose [ 0.257908] ACPI: [Firmware Bug]: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored in dmesg | grep firmware is that important? |
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| 17:48.00 | jelly | annadane: it's not |
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| 17:50.43 | jelly | "OMG this BIOS does not care about Linux enough to set up hw in a nicer way! Well, we tried." |
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| 17:52.09 | jelly | https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/firmware-guide/acpi/osi.html |
| 17:52.17 | jhutchins_wk | got it done with ansible, but thanks jelly |
| 17:52.58 | jelly | > In 2009, Linux removed _OSI(âLinuxâ), and added a cmdline parameter to restore it for legacy systems still needed it. Further a BIOS_BUG warning prints for all BIOSâs that invoke it. |
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| 17:53.22 | jelly | annadane: sounds like the latter |
| 17:53.34 | whislock | At least it doesn't thrown an NMI. |
| 17:53.41 | nvz | I find it a bit annoying that even with "quiet" you still on most machnes see a ton of ACPI/bios related messages that look really bad to the untrained eye |
| 17:54.09 | jelly | I find it annoying "quiet" is default, what can you do |
| 17:54.11 | nvz | you can hide it with "splash" but I haven't found a way to just stop those kind of early-boot messages |
| 17:54.31 | greycat | (you can edit /etc/default/grub) |
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| 17:54.46 | jelly | this is Debian, the compromise is to make everyone equally unhappy with the default |
| 17:54.58 | nvz | this laptop only shows like two lines.. but my thin client shows like a whole screen worth of such messages.. looks like the machine is saying its about to self destruct.. |
| 17:55.33 | nvz | that info is not really constructive.. its the kinda thing that isn't at all of any interest to average user, I think the kernel should just keep it to itself |
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| 17:57.44 | GenTooMan | jello well here is what xorg threw up during the crash nouveau issue doesn't seem to be it either. https://pastebin.com/FJX1tkRE |
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| 17:59.51 | nvz | heh |
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| 18:00.20 | jelly | is there anything above that? I did not have a good experience with nouveau back when I'd use a nvidia card |
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| 18:01.34 | nvz | GenTooMan: please use paste.debian.net or something sane in the future.. |
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| 18:02.14 | nvz | GenTooMan: you can also pipe output to termbin i.e. "command | nc termbin.com 9999" |
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| 18:02.43 | jelly | GenTooMan: for all the flak nvidia's driver takes, it was always a lot more stable for me. I retried nouveau roughly once a year. |
| 18:03.15 | annadane | because nvidia intentionally makes it harder for nouveau... |
| 18:03.52 | diogenes_ | is a happy nouveau user. |
| 18:04.22 | GenTooMan | right so here http://paste.debian.net/hidden/1b30e4ae/ |
| 18:04.40 | jelly | annadane: knowing _why_ something's horribly broken to the point of uselessness does not help making it work |
| 18:04.56 | GenTooMan | full Xorg.0.log.old |
| 18:05.05 | greycat | it can help inform your decision-making process, though |
| 18:05.40 | jelly | [164970.173] (EE) glamor0: GL error: GL_OUT_OF_MEMORY in glTexSubImage |
| 18:05.46 | GenTooMan | Would AMD or Intel be better. |
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| 18:06.42 | jelly | with free drivers and some non-free firmware, I can confirm intel gpu is more stable |
| 18:07.08 | jelly | but avoid having too old intel. Best it be 2-8 years on the market :-) |
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| 18:07.50 | jelly | regressions keep crawling in for old stuff, esp before sandybridge |
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| 18:08.53 | GenTooMan | 3+ hours before the crash? |
| 18:08.58 | jelly | yes |
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| 18:10.10 | GenTooMan | I've no idea what might have caused that as I wasn't using anything needing 3d or opengl. hmmm |
| 18:10.20 | jelly | and them glamor, whatever that is, switched to some sort of a less optimized mode and kept chugging along, until it could not chug any more |
| 18:10.35 | jelly | GenTooMan: which wm or de are you using? |
| 18:10.42 | Iarfen | the difference between lib and lib64 is related to the computer being x86 or x64? |
| 18:11.01 | jelly | Iarfen: not enough context for a meaningful answer |
| 18:11.09 | greycat | Iarfen: the software, not the computer |
| 18:11.30 | greycat | an amd64 computer can run both, and you can have both types installed at the same time |
| 18:11.46 | Luilu | Hi together, i need some help to make an bash-script and crontab can someone help me with it? i was trying to delete files older than 5 Minutes after the creatin of the file but it didn't work with: find /path/to/files -type f -amin +2 -exec rm {} + |
| 18:11.56 | jelly | GenTooMan: kde and gnome and probably some others default to using 3d stuff to show 2d windows and such |
| 18:12.00 | greycat | -amin is atime, not mtime. you want mtime. |
| 18:12.09 | GenTooMan | jello lxdm |
| 18:12.15 | greycat | also, GNU find has a -delete option that's more efficient than -exec rm |
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| 18:12.45 | jelly | GenTooMan: no idea which wm lxde(?) uses or whether it does "compositing" by default, sorry |
| 18:12.56 | greycat | also, 2 is not 5 |
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| 18:13.16 | Luilu | greycat, but mtime is for n*24 like the file is older than x days? |
| 18:13.24 | greycat | -mmin |
| 18:13.36 | Luilu | 2 minutes was for the test sry |
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| 18:13.57 | jelly | Luilu: -mtime argument is days by default |
| 18:14.37 | Luilu | so i modify the -amin to -mmin and remove the -exec to -delete ? |
| 18:15.00 | greycat | I do not have enough spoons for this. |
| 18:15.09 | jelly | there is no spoon |
| 18:15.30 | joepublic | I always wonder how the spoon salesmen feel about that one. |
| 18:15.51 | jelly | they work within the matrix and are just fine with it |
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| 18:16.15 | jelly | if anything, a spoon coming out of being is just more business |
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| 18:16.39 | joepublic | point taken. |
| 18:16.43 | GenTooMan | jelly well to be fair I now know more than I did 60 minutes ago. :D |
| 18:17.49 | Luilu | ok it doesn't work :-( i'll tryed this one now: find /path/to/files -type f -mmin +5 -delete and nothing was deleted but there are files in it older than 15 minutes |
| 18:17.54 | jelly | GenTooMan: I suppose you could ask #xorg or #nouveau if it's possible to detect and/or increase whatever limit you triggered there |
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| 18:18.54 | jelly | or wait patiently if someone who knows something about X and Mesa and the whole stack appears here |
| 18:19.20 | joepublic | careful practicing with find -delete btw |
| 18:20.26 | greycat | practice with -print |
| 18:20.41 | greycat | when you're sure it's right, then replace the -print with something more potent |
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| 18:23.30 | rander2 | hello |
| 18:24.18 | Luilu | greycat, i will be carefull yes :-) but i need that script to delete files in case of an bug from samba, it spawns me hundreds of 0 byte files and fills up my whole inodes from the system :-/ i know i can delete them without any problems but after some seconds there are hundret new files and i can't stop it for now so i have to make this workarround with that script to delet it automaticly |
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| 18:25.44 | a9-airbase | hello |
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| 18:27.50 | jelly | GenTooMan: you can install atop (or sysstat) and let it collect statistics about memory and cpu usage, both write logs that can be inspected after the fact |
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| 18:30.09 | rander2 | I have ever the same problem at the start up debian buster, the system start correctly, but when I try to start X , all become locked, virtual tty and X. Now X is started correctly , after I give the command : update-initramfs -u ; update-initramfs -u -k all # as root. But honestly I didn't understand what it mean |
| 18:30.53 | rander2 | Sadly, I tried to start up the system many times, wasting much time. I'm sorry of this |
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| 18:34.51 | jelly | rander2: some drivers need to be loaded before the real linux filesystem is mounted. This is done early during boot in "initramfs". It's possible you installed a critical piece of software, like, gpu firmware that needs to be loaded when the gpu kernel driver is loaded, but it did not manage to get loaded early enough until you rebuilt initramfs and rebooted |
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| 18:36.22 | jelly | those commands rebuild the initramfs image, which is separate from the rest of the system and sometimes needs to be refreshed manually |
| 18:37.59 | rander2 | ok, but I run this command in past, and the problem return every time I reboot |
| 18:38.51 | nvz | I'd setup my thin client with Buster last night, had it hooked to a rather large TV on the DP port.. the resolution was something pretty high.. not quite 4k I dont think, but higher than 1080p by a long shot.. what is a good approach to make the UI visible without a magnifying glass in those situations? Where you can't lower the res without the screen being garbled cause its the native res of the display.. |
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| 18:39.34 | nvz | I just in MATE anyhow go into system>preferences>look and feel>appearance [fonts] [details] and raised the DPI to 256 from 96 but that doesnt seem like its really the right way to go about things |
| 18:39.44 | nvz | and the bigger issue is, I don't know how to do that in anything but MATE |
| 18:41.05 | nvz | I suppose xrandr or xorg.conf could also do such things.. but I'm not altogether sure raising the dpi is the proper way to deal with super high resolutions or is it? |
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| 18:41.50 | somiaj | I think recent changes in xorg make it so you don't change the dpi but set a scale factor, I recall this being an issue on old sytems I use to be able to set the XFT dpi in .Xdefaults |
| 18:42.10 | somiaj | gnome does this nicely, but older wms may not have full support for this. |
| 18:42.20 | jelly | nvz: I fear the right way forward is "don't use X but wayland" |
| 18:42.39 | *** join/#debian ntz (~dpecka@opensuse/member/dpecka) |
| 18:42.41 | ntz | hello |
| 18:42.41 | nvz | somiaj: hmm. thats the kind of thing I worry about.. it being only a fix for some things and not others |
| 18:42.41 | somiaj | but you use to be able to do 'Xft.dpi: 96' in .Xdefaults, but now 96 dpi is fairly hardcoded in xorg. |
| 18:43.01 | nvz | ntz: this can get awkward :P |
| 18:43.02 | jelly | having displays with different DPI in Xorg does not really work |
| 18:43.07 | somiaj | though that would only change font size, not necessaraly change size of other things. |
| 18:43.32 | ntz | quick Q:, I am not very familiar with recent debian distros ... where should I write a LC_TIME=en_GB.UTF-8 to have it properly system-wide ? |
| 18:43.41 | nvz | well from my experience in MATE anyhow, changing that font DPI is enough to make the interface usable on high resolutions |
| 18:43.46 | ntz | I use for all the rest en_US.UTF-8 |
| 18:44.01 | ntz | nvz: yep, it will, likely :D |
| 18:44.07 | nvz | ntz: dpkg-reconfigure console-data |
| 18:44.15 | jelly | ntz: system wide for interactive sessions, /etc/default/locale |
| 18:44.17 | whislock | nvz: An easier way is to use localectl. |
| 18:44.22 | greycat | ntz: you do not enforce YOUR preferences on other users. |
| 18:44.33 | whislock | Ah, that's system wide. |
| 18:44.34 | jelly | wtf is localectl now |
| 18:44.36 | ntz | whislock: I did, localectl domn't touch LC_TIME imho |
| 18:44.41 | whislock | Sure it can. |
| 18:44.41 | somiaj | well dpkg-reconfigure locale, but this sets all locales, if you want to say set LC_TIME differentlay than the default locale that is different. |
| 18:44.52 | whislock | localectl set-locale LC_TIME=en_GB.UTF-8 |
| 18:44.57 | ntz | greycat: I am root and I am enforcing everybody to my defaults |
| 18:44.59 | whislock | jelly: Been there for a while. |
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| 18:45.03 | jelly | (don't answer that, I can tell by the "ctl" where it comes from) |
| 18:45.05 | greycat | ntz: *plonk* |
| 18:45.06 | ntz | they can change it if they won't like it |
| 18:45.09 | greycat | Not ME, you aren't. |
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| 18:45.36 | whislock | ntz: Generally not encouraged. You should probably set it for your user. |
| 18:45.46 | ntz | jelly: thanks ... I was also considering /etc/profile |
| 18:46.08 | whislock | ntz: localectl is your easiest route, if you want to do this system wide. |
| 18:47.08 | jelly | I don't seem to have localed running on stretch or buster, but maybe it autostarts once you set something. |
| 18:47.15 | whislock | It's not a daemon. |
| 18:47.19 | greycat | the (8) page says it starts on demand |
| 18:47.31 | greycat | I... do not know what constitutes a demand. |
| 18:47.33 | ntz | whislock: localectl don't touch LC_TIME imho |
| 18:47.40 | whislock | ntz: Yes. It fucking does. |
| 18:47.52 | ntz | I said it already .. I have set LANG=en_US.UTF-8 and it's fine |
| 18:48.24 | jelly | localectl shows my custom global LC_MESSAGES and LC_CTYPE |
| 18:48.30 | whislock | https://paste.debian.net/1120697/ |
| 18:48.37 | jelly | no reason why it wouldn't LC_TIME as well |
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| 18:48.43 | whislock | ntz: I know you said it already. You were wrong both times. |
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| 18:49.12 | whislock | ntz: That paste has the *exact* command you need. |
| 18:49.35 | jelly | whislock: does it also generate missing locales when needed! |
| 18:49.36 | ntz | whislock: then I missed that paste .. rereading |
| 18:49.46 | whislock | jelly: No. |
| 18:49.55 | whislock | So make sure you've got the right locale generated. |
| 18:50.08 | jelly | uh, so it's a partial replacement for debian's own methodology |
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| 18:50.31 | whislock | Yup. |
| 18:50.50 | jelly | I am not surprised. |
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| 18:52.38 | jelly | debian's dpkg-reconfigure locales to save 100M disk space was silly anyway, but if you change to make locales-all be installed by default all sorts of automated installers will break... |
| 18:54.06 | nvz | well 100M disk space may not matter to many, but it does matter to some.. and buster is really beefy as it is |
| 18:54.28 | jelly | sudo localectl set-locale LC_TIME=en_GB.UTF-8 # whoops, overwrote the whole of my previous /etc/default/locale |
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| 18:54.54 | jelly | which is kind of weird since "localectl" DID read my settings from somewhere |
| 18:54.55 | greycat | so localtectl overwrites /etc/default/locale? |
| 18:55.09 | jelly | greycat: absolutely yes, at least on stretch |
| 18:55.19 | JyZyXEL | jelly: kinda like doing "crontab -r" instead of "crontab -e" |
| 18:55.23 | whislock | That's a debianism, I believe. |
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| 18:55.44 | jelly | this is #debian |
| 18:55.48 | whislock | I know. |
| 18:55.48 | greycat | Maybe Debian patched it to touch that file, but didn't patch the man page to SAY it touches that file. The man page talks about "files such as /etc/locale.conf and /etc/vconsole.conf". |
| 18:56.03 | greycat | I do not have an /etc/locale.conf (on buster). |
| 18:56.03 | whislock | Just saying that Debian is the only distro where it clobbers that file. |
| 18:56.26 | annadane | this is #debian?! i thought i was in kali linux support. |
| 18:56.39 | greycat | feeds annadane to a parrot |
| 18:56.39 | whislock | annadane: shame *ding* shame *ding* |
| 18:56.49 | jelly | greycat: systemd integration with existing infra is haphazard and crappy? news at 11 |
| 18:57.00 | whislock | polly wanna hacker, braaawk |
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| 18:58.27 | jelly | I kind of want to file a Severity: deletes files from different package bug, but that's just trolling at this point |
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| 18:58.56 | whislock | I don't think that that would be unreasonable. |
| 18:59.23 | jelly | maybe after the GR :-) |
| 18:59.43 | whislock | Good point. |
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| 18:59.52 | jelly | Restoring 107 /etc/default/locale [Done] |
| 19:00.10 | greycat | #905564 |
| 19:00.12 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/905564 in util-linux (open): «login: shows error about "ALWAYS_SET_PATH" which is supported by "su" from "util-linux"»; severity: minor; opened: 2018-08-06; last modified: 2019-11-11. |
| 19:00.28 | greycat | Precedent for two packages trying to share a conf file and mucking each other up. |
| 19:00.31 | whislock | I suddenly have this bizarre idea to write a script that generates a random set of locale variables based on what locales are generated... |
| 19:00.56 | jelly | !ddate |
| 19:00.56 | dpkg | ddate is, like, a small program displaying the discordian date, see man ddate |
| 19:01.08 | jelly | meh! |
| 19:01.19 | jelly | sh: 1: ddate: not found |
| 19:01.28 | jelly | gives up |
| 19:01.34 | greycat | ,v ddate |
| 19:01.35 | judd | Package: ddate on amd64 -- jessie: 0.2.2-1; bullseye: 0.2.2-1+b1; buster: 0.2.2-1+b1; sid: 0.2.2-1+b1; stretch: 0.2.2-1+b1 |
| 19:01.44 | NetTerminalGene | youtube-dl doesn't work anymore |
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| 19:01.56 | jelly | NetTerminalGene: thats happens every couple months, yeah |
| 19:01.57 | somiaj | NetTerminalGene: that is common, use the upstream script to keep it up to date |
| 19:01.59 | annadane | don't use youtube-dl from debian repositories, it's going to get out of date |
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| 19:02.05 | jelly | ,v youtube-dl |
| 19:02.06 | judd | Package: youtube-dl on amd64 -- stretch: 2017.05.18.1-1; stretch-backports: 2019.01.17-1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 2019.01.17-1.1; bullseye: 2019.09.28-1; sid: 2019.09.28-1; bullseye-multimedia: 2019.11.28-dmo1; buster-multimedia: 2019.11.28-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 2019.11.28-dmo1 |
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| 19:03.17 | NetTerminalGene | maybe i should install it from sid? since it is a simple software, right? |
| 19:03.39 | jelly | NetTerminalGene: and what if 2019.09.28-1 is too old as well? |
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| 19:04.09 | whislock | NetTerminalGene: Why can't you use buster-multimedia? |
| 19:04.12 | *** join/#debian Arkaniad (~Arkaniad@184-169-123-193-dynamic.midco.net) |
| 19:04.31 | NetTerminalGene | because it's not ıfficial |
| 19:04.40 | NetTerminalGene | official |
| 19:04.42 | jelly | dmo repos have other problems |
| 19:04.44 | greycat | Ewwww. Better to use upstream. |
| 19:04.49 | whislock | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:04.58 | jelly | use upstream zip-bundled-python |
| 19:05.07 | jelly | and then you can "youtube-dl --update" |
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| 19:05.33 | ruffni | i get "open pipe file /run/rpc_pipefs/nfs/blocklayout failed: No such file or directory" in /var/log/user.log. is this a problem? how do i get rid of it? |
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| 19:06.12 | *** join/#debian graphicsv (sid340368@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yqdvrraclgopbiet) |
| 19:06.19 | jelly | ruffni: sounds like something nfs v4 related. Ignore it if you use nfs v4 and everything still works? |
| 19:06.25 | graphicsv | Is it possible to run Debian with some minimal UI on a 64 MB computer? |
| 19:07.02 | *** join/#debian polman (~ananevtem@ip-067-019-101-092.pools.atnet.ru) |
| 19:07.03 | jelly | graphicsv: current dpkg and apt will not work well without at least 256MB. |
| 19:07.08 | greycat | graphicsv: Only older releases. I think wheezy is the last one to support running on 64 MB. |
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| 19:07.59 | jelly | try a distro with a more lean kernel and libc |
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| 19:09.47 | jelly | graphicsv: is this an x86 32bit system? Maybe ask Alpine if their distro works? |
| 19:10.48 | jelly | wheezy, debian 7, is technically getting some support by ELTS people but their 32bit builds are incomplete so sometimes you'll miss security fixes |
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| 19:11.07 | graphicsv | jelly: Just wonderingm actually. I used to have an Intel 486 that used to run Windows 98 and it was blazing fast |
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| 19:11.44 | jelly | graphicsv: my wifi access point has 128MB RAM now. :-| |
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| 19:12.28 | jelly | but I'm not sure how usable OpenWRT is for daily interactive use |
| 19:12.41 | Muflone | Hi, I've a question about the mbrola package. I cannot find the origin of the source archive 3.02b, the github source URL has no tags or releases. Where does it comes from? |
| 19:13.08 | greycat | The "copyright" file is supposed to say where the source came from. |
| 19:13.14 | ruffni | ok :) it just looks kinda nasty in my log. like the JackClinet::AcquireSelfRealTime error. i try to start jack + pulseaudio on `startx` -> it crashes at every login. when i restart it (pulsaudio --kill; sleep 1; pulseaudio -D) it works just fine. any ideas where i should start looking? i have adjusted /etc/limits.conf (for @audio) and followed general instructions found on the interwebs |
| 19:13.24 | greycat | https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//contrib/m/mbrola/mbrola_3.02b+dfsg-4_copyright |
| 19:13.54 | graphicsv | Is it possible to tweak Debian kernel and enable only what I want to improve performance? |
| 19:14.14 | whislock | graphicsv: It won't. |
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| 19:14.34 | Muflone | greycat: I cannot find where does it comes from. Is a Debian tarball built from VCS? |
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| 19:14.52 | graphicsv | whislock: Why? |
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| 19:15.19 | whislock | graphicsv: Because that's not how things work. That's not how they've ever worked. Just because code is there doesn't mean it runs, unless something on your system is using it. |
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| 19:16.23 | graphicsv | So you'd say source-based distros like Gentoo has no performance advantage over a more 'default kernel'? |
| 19:16.25 | jelly | graphicsv: it's possible to use a custom kernel with debian userspace, sure, whether performance is going to be different depends on what you do. In case of a, basically embedded system with 64MB RAM, you don't want to optimize for performance, you want to optimize for size |
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| 19:16.39 | greycat | graphicsv: at best, stripping pieces out of the kernel might reduce memory consumption, and therefore might speed up things by reducing pressure on swap |
| 19:16.45 | whislock | graphicsv: Correct. Gentoo is a PhD thesis in the placebo effect. |
| 19:17.06 | jelly | graphicsv: if this question is unrelated to the previous one, then "it depends" |
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| 19:17.29 | towo` | Muflone, the upstream version is defined in the Makefile |
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| 19:19.05 | graphicsv | greycat: I see. Why exactly the kernel would use more memory for things that are just 'activated' there? |
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| 19:19.15 | whislock | Because the code exists. |
| 19:19.27 | Muflone | towo`: the makefile is contained into the source archive. I cannot find the source of the source (mbrola-version.orig.tar.gz) archive |
| 19:19.29 | whislock | Code existing increases memory resident size. Code RUNNING consumes CPU time. |
| 19:19.33 | greycat | The kernel can't be swapped out. It resides in memory. All of it. The only pieces that don't permanently reside in memory are the modules. |
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| 19:19.59 | greycat | So, building things as modules will reduce RAM use, as will disabling things altogether. If they can be built as modules. If they can be disabled. |
| 19:20.17 | towo` | Muflone, meybe because the surce is tared from git repo? |
| 19:20.44 | jelly | openwrt does a decent thing of building the bare minimum kernel for a platform and then putting each extra module in their own opkg installable packae |
| 19:20.55 | Muflone | towo` that's what I think. So it seems grabbed from the VCS source, with no release/tag |
| 19:20.57 | subcool | Ok, i know this is a - stupid q. but- Wth doesnt LInux have the abilty to run chk disk like windows? |
| 19:21.09 | whislock | subcool: It's called fsck? |
| 19:21.14 | towo` | Muflone, and? what's the problem? |
| 19:21.24 | jelly | subcool: yes, for (most) native linux filesystems |
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| 19:21.40 | subcool | jelly: what? |
| 19:21.51 | whislock | subcool: fsck - file system check |
| 19:21.53 | jelly | subcool: there is a fsck for ext4 and xfs, there isn't a working checking tool for ntfs |
| 19:21.54 | subcool | sorry, i mean what the hell |
| 19:22.30 | subcool | whislock: yeah, ive used it- it was useless. i just had an all day batthe with VBox to run a win sessions to run chkdisk |
| 19:22.34 | subcool | this should be fuxed by now |
| 19:22.44 | whislock | subcool: So you're talking about NTFS, then? |
| 19:22.47 | subcool | LInux hasnt been alble to properly chkdsk ntfs -- in forever. |
| 19:22.50 | subcool | yep |
| 19:22.56 | ahi2 | what about ntfsfix for win partitions? |
| 19:23.00 | jelly | subcool: if you have a NTFS to check, do it in windows |
| 19:23.06 | whislock | subcool: Yeah, go yell at MS for that. They're famous for implementing things not QUITE in line with their own published spec. |
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| 19:23.11 | subcool | jelly: i am. |
| 19:23.13 | jelly | ahi2: it does not do much at all |
| 19:23.21 | subcool | lol |
| 19:23.28 | greycat | If Linux ever gets a 100% working fsck.ntfs, Microsoft will just change the file system again. |
| 19:23.31 | ahi2 | it fixed my win not booting once |
| 19:23.44 | subcool | you had a minimal error |
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| 19:24.01 | subcool | i use my two externals for storage- but keep them ntfs so i can move them easily. |
| 19:24.07 | JPT | No need to change NTFS, didn't they invent ReFS recently? |
| 19:24.16 | whislock | greycat: They'd sit there like the cable company guys from south park rubbing their nipples while saying they're sorry. |
| 19:24.24 | subcool | i HAVE to run chkdisk every 3 months because of the freaking lost filesetc |
| 19:24.33 | jelly | ntfs has had a couple generations, and features added over time. ntfsfix knows none of that basically. IT can only deal with a few specific simple things. |
| 19:24.40 | greycat | subcool: you don't HAVE to use an ntfs file system |
| 19:24.41 | subcool | i havent run it in a while.. and im paying for it. |
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| 19:25.19 | subcool | greycat: i know- but... its really ehlpful when things to go to hell. |
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| 19:25.59 | jelly | subcool: maybe the people in ##windows have a live cd to run a native tool from, when you need it |
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| 19:26.17 | subcool | do they have something like that working yet? |
| 19:26.32 | jelly | I don't know, ask them |
| 19:26.32 | subcool | i trid to do one of those win over USB things. lol . what a mess |
| 19:27.08 | subcool | lol - nah. unless is a real live cd and not... an OS on usb or whatever they did last time. im not trying again |
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| 19:27.46 | Muflone | towo` there's not any problems, source archives often come from upstream tag/releases, not from master branch. Is a master branch HEAD commit a valid source archive for a new release? |
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| 19:28.03 | jelly | subcool: ok, you don't have to ask them, but I'll ask you not to ask us, either |
| 19:29.15 | somiaj | Muflone: there are examples of debian packages that use git master with a specific commit as their upstream version. |
| 19:29.32 | somiaj | Muflone: in general it is preferable to use actual upstream releases, but this isn't always the case. |
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| 19:29.56 | greycat | ,v xsel |
| 19:29.57 | judd | Package: xsel on amd64 -- jessie: 1.2.0-2; stretch: 1.2.0-2+b1; buster: 1.2.0+git9bfc13d.20180109-1; bullseye: 1.2.0+git9bfc13d.20180109-3; sid: 1.2.0+git9bfc13d.20180109-3 |
| 19:30.34 | greycat | good old 9bfc13d |
| 19:30.39 | Muflone | somiaj: this is what I was trying to get. Shouldn't then the package be marked with a +gitCOMMITid ? |
| 19:30.52 | graphicsv | whislock: Then I might as well just go back to Debian, not sure. |
| 19:30.54 | greycat | that's up to the individual maintainer |
| 19:31.04 | Muflone | *groan* |
| 19:31.06 | somiaj | correct the upstream version should be taged approprtialy, but I don't think there is any strict policy about this. |
| 19:31.44 | greycat | ,v net-tools |
| 19:31.45 | judd | Package: net-tools on amd64 -- jessie: 1.60-26+b1; stretch: 1.60+git20161116.90da8a0-1; bullseye: 1.60+git20180626.aebd88e-1; buster: 1.60+git20180626.aebd88e-1; sid: 1.60+git20180626.aebd88e-1 |
| 19:32.04 | greycat | as you can see, they don't even agree on the FORM of the version string |
| 19:32.23 | somiaj | Muflone: are you trying to make a package, or are you thinking a package should have a git commit in its upstream version? |
| 19:32.28 | Muflone | somiaj: oh ok, I wasn't able to find anything in policy manual. A source archive could be made from a git HEAD then |
| 19:33.09 | somiaj | Yea, I think it is preferable to use the upstream master if you need fixes from the latest release in debian and not just cherry pick them. |
| 19:33.21 | somiaj | but again a lot depends on the actual package/matainer |
| 19:33.50 | Muflone | somiaj: in the past I was a debian maintainer and I knew every source archive MUST have a release tag. Now I'm an Arch Linux maintainer and our policy has a similar point about the source tags/releases |
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| 19:34.26 | Muflone | But Debian package is newer than ours :-D |
| 19:34.38 | jelly | *disbelief* |
| 19:35.27 | Muflone | Am I missing a source URL where to get the source or the policy allows to use the VCS allows to get the HEAD tip? |
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| 19:36.10 | Muflone | It seems allowed, then |
| 19:36.50 | greycat | https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-docs.html#s-copyrightfile "In addition, the copyright file must say where the upstream sources (if any) were obtained, and should include a name or contact address for the upstream authors." |
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| 19:37.55 | greycat | https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#version-control-system-vcs-fields also might be relevant |
| 19:38.56 | Muflone | The VCS weren't used for source archives (some years ago) |
| 19:39.01 | Muflone | *VCS tags* |
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| 19:40.29 | Muflone | There's not a real issue, there's not a source archive that I cannot find, while Debian maintainers have. I could use the VCS master or debian .orig archive as AL source archive |
| 19:41.06 | jelly | but then you rely on debian as upstream |
| 19:41.06 | Muflone | Thank you greycat, towo`, somiaj |
| 19:41.17 | Muflone | and jelly :-) |
| 19:41.36 | jelly | don't thank me, I'm useless after 7PM UTC |
| 19:41.55 | Muflone | I thought Debian was developing the mbrola source privately somewhere. I came at salsa.debian.org |
| 19:42.24 | greycat | No, the copyright file that I linked to earlier clearly points to a github URL. |
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| 19:44.01 | Muflone | greycat: sure it tell where the source COULD be found, not where THAT specific source comes from. There isn't a commit id, or archive URL, or something similar. |
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| 19:45.36 | Muflone | I have not a single issue with that. It just seemed weird to me there wasn't even a watch file to get the source. BTW nevermind |
| 19:46.23 | Muflone | There watch file contains only https://github.com/numediart/MBROLA/releases /numediart/MBROLA/archive/releases/@ANY_VERSION@@ARCHIVE_EXT@ |
| 19:46.42 | Muflone | or maybe the upstream removed the tag after the release |
| 19:47.01 | Muflone | s/There/The/ |
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| 19:50.23 | jelly | ,i mbrola |
| 19:50.24 | judd | Package mbrola (contrib/sound, optional) in buster/amd64: Multilingual software speech synthesizer. Version: 3.02b+dfsg-4; Size: 169.6k; Installed: 325k; Homepage: http://tcts.fpms.ac.be/synthesis/ |
| 19:50.54 | jelly | huh, where's the Maintainer field |
| 19:51.27 | jelly | ,maintainer mbrola |
| 19:51.29 | judd | Package mbrola version 3.01h-6 was uploaded by Samuel Thibault on 2010-09-16, last changed by Samuel Thibault and maintained by Samuel Thibault. |
| 19:51.44 | greycat | two thousand TEN?! |
| 19:51.52 | jelly | ah, found another piece of judd code that needs updating |
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| 19:52.03 | greycat | or is that the oldest date rather than the youngest date... |
| 19:52.14 | jelly | ,maintainer mbrola --release buster |
| 19:52.15 | judd | (maint <packagename> [<version>]) -- Return the names of the person who uploaded the source package, the person who changed the package prior to upload and the maintainer of the specified source package. If version is omitted, the most recent upload is used. Imperfect binary-to-source package mapping will be attempted. |
| 19:52.31 | somiaj | seems the source has moved, and the version info wasn't updated on github. |
| 19:52.33 | jelly | *cough* most recent *cough* |
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| 19:52.45 | annadane | alioth -> salsa? |
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| 19:53.45 | jelly | Muflone: dfsg in package name strongly implies debian (had to) create a new source tarball for debian to use |
| 19:54.05 | somiaj | https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/m/mbrola/changelog-3.02bdfsg-5 -- the changelog gives some info |
| 19:54.25 | somiaj | seems the last release, 3.02b was before the source was moved to github, and non of the release info was transfered. |
| 19:54.28 | somiaj | (like a few weeks before) |
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| 19:54.55 | somiaj | also seems 3.02b is free except for non-free voices, which the dsfg means debian has removed the non-free componenets from the upstream source. |
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| 19:56.09 | Muflone | somiaj: the version before moving to github was 3.01h. AFAIK there wasn't a public 3.02* release |
| 19:56.20 | jelly | but the copyright file for the new -5 version still doesn't say anything better than just github |
| 19:57.00 | Muflone | the old website with the 3.01h went down after many years and the source was then moved to github |
| 19:59.38 | Muflone | for what it's worth I opened a new upstream bug for making a release: https://github.com/numediart/MBROLA/issues/16 |
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| 20:00.13 | jelly | you could ask the debian maintainerdirectly where they got the source from |
| 20:00.36 | somiaj | Muflone: you may have to contact the matainer for specifics, but it appears they uploaded a 3.02b release right before the move to github which lost all release info |
| 20:00.55 | Muflone | that was my plan B |
| 20:01.00 | greycat | or the "b" means "beta" and it wasn't actually a release |
| 20:01.06 | jelly | or ask in OFFICIAL #debian over on irc.oftc.net (= irc.debian.org) where more DDs may hang |
| 20:01.07 | somiaj | if that release actually existed or not might be best answered by upstream |
| 20:01.34 | somiaj | I would say #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net would be better if going that route. |
| 20:01.35 | jelly | greycat: what did 3.01h mean then, hardly a release? |
| 20:02.00 | Muflone | jelly: my bad, I totally forgot about oftc.net, I passed many years there |
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| 20:02.46 | Muflone | I should have somewhere the maintainers' channel secret key :-P |
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| 20:04.15 | somiaj | Muflone: anyways, contacting upstream or maybe the debian matainer directly is probably the only person who can say where the 3.02b release came from since the old site is down. You might be able to check the way-back machine but unsure if it got a recent snapshot or not. |
| 20:04.50 | somiaj | but it appears that release was right before the move to github, so it might be the master branch on github is basically the same thing (plus the nonfree stuff) |
| 20:05.07 | Muflone | somiaj: sure, I'll do that. AFAIK the old website was never updated in the last 5 years. |
| 20:05.13 | Muflone | thank you anyone helped |
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| 20:06.29 | davanger | Any network experts around? |
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| 20:06.45 | whislock | davanger: Probably better to just ask your question, and if someone's here that can answer, they will. |
| 20:07.22 | somiaj | There is also ##networking, but if you have a quest specific to #debian this is more appropriate. |
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| 20:07.42 | davanger | I have a device with 2 interfaces and I can't get the routing to work right |
| 20:08.13 | somiaj | you need to give us more info, are the two interfaces hooked up to two different network, do you want to forward info from one network to another? etc. |
| 20:08.48 | davanger | It has a wlan0 and rmnet_data dev. I add routing for both and setup rmnet_data as default getaway. I then loose connection with wlan0 |
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| 20:12.36 | whislock | "you add routing for both" |
| 20:12.38 | whislock | What does that mean? |
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| 20:17.49 | jhutchins_wk | Is the init system vote open or is it restricted to members of a certain mailing list or something? |
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| 20:18.16 | greycat | ... |
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| 20:19.24 | jhutchins_wk | n'mind, I found the announcement. |
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| 20:21.16 | annadane | Joe the Janitor thinks Debian should switch to OpenRC |
| 20:22.23 | whislock | annadane: If I wanted to suffer brain damage, I'd take a head-first leap off of the Burj Khalifa. |
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| 20:25.16 | mason | Not seeing any relevance there. |
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| 20:34.32 | davanger | <whislock> I create a route entry for each of their network |
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| 20:35.04 | davanger | 100.68.15.220/30 dev rmnet_data1 proto static scope link |
| 20:35.11 | davanger | 192.168.3.0/24 dev wlan0 proto static scope link |
| 20:35.16 | jelly | !paste |
| 20:35.16 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
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| 20:37.26 | jelly | davanger: pastebin your current "ip a" and "ip r" output and your network config file, preferably all in a single pastebin entry, then explain how you'd like things to work. oh btw, normally you can only have one default route (one "gateway" line anywhere in /etc/network/interfaces) |
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| 20:43.33 | Akuw | if i have a iso image of debian and want to copy all file to create local repository what is the rocedure |
| 20:43.36 | Akuw | i am not clear |
| 20:43.47 | jhutchins_wk | !local repo |
| 20:44.28 | jhutchins_wk | !local repository |
| 20:44.28 | dpkg | <jelly> dirty local repo: put all *.deb in a separate directory, say, /mnt/repo. cd /mnt/repo && dpkg-scanpackages . /dev/null | gzip -9c > Packages.gz, then add "deb file:/mnt/repo ./" to sources.list, run apt-get update |
| 20:44.52 | jelly | Akuw has been pointed at !own repo at least two times in the last two days |
| 20:45.21 | jhutchins_wk | jelly: Are we supposed to read it aloud for him? |
| 20:45.33 | jelly | unsigned repos like that ^ won't be liked by any recent apt |
| 20:45.51 | jelly | dpkg, factinfo local repository |
| 20:45.52 | dpkg | local repository -- created by greycat <~wooledg@remote.wooledge.org> at Thu Oct 20 19:28:10 2016 (1147 days); it has been requested 3 times, last by jhutchins_wk, 1m 23s ago. |
| 20:46.11 | jhutchins_wk | jelly: So "own repo" is preferred? |
| 20:46.31 | jelly | well... "own repo" is shorter to type |
| 20:46.36 | jelly | and remember |
| 20:46.40 | greycat | !literal local repositry |
| 20:46.49 | greycat | !literal local repository |
| 20:46.49 | dpkg | "local repository" is "<reply><jelly> dirty local repo: put all *.deb in a separate directory, say, /mnt/repo. cd /mnt/repo && dpkg-scanpackages . /dev/null | gzip -9c > Packages.gz, then add "deb file:/mnt/repo ./" to sources.list, run apt-get update" |
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| 20:47.08 | davanger | paste.debian.net/1120707 |
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| 20:47.21 | greycat | !literal own repo |
| 20:47.21 | dpkg | "own repo" is "<reply>To feed your own packages into apt, you need to create a repository with a Packages file that lists the packages. If you only have a few packages and don't have very sophisticated requirements, you can use <dpkg-scanpackages>. If you want to be able add/remove packages using regular Debian tools like dput then try <reprepro> or mini-dinstall. See http://wiki.debian.org/HowToSetupADebianRepository" |
| 20:47.24 | annadane | why do people run their own repositories? just a faster download speed? |
| 20:47.45 | jelly | annadane: internet access is a privilege |
| 20:47.46 | greycat | I don't know why anyone does anything any more. It seems to be a race to build the biggest, most awful mess. |
| 20:48.56 | greycat | If all you want is to save bandwidth when you have multiple Debian systems on your network, just set up a squid proxy and use that for apt. |
| 20:49.43 | davanger | Jelly: http://paste.debian.net/1120707 |
| 20:49.48 | greycat | But most of the people here that ask for this seem to have a VERY different goal. They want to download all, or a huge fraction of, the ENTIRE archive. Many, many gigabytes of crap they will never use. Why? Who the hell knows. |
| 20:50.15 | jelly | if I was in Akuw's place I'd ftpsync just jessie to a local disk, bring that disk to the offsite machines, and use that as a (valid, signed, reasonably up-to-date) mirror |
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| 20:50.51 | jelly | not even jessie/updates, just normal repo, it's bound to be newer than anything they've got installed |
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| 20:51.24 | jelly | greycat: it's simpler to just grab everything than pick and choose |
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| 20:52.42 | B|ack0p | hi |
| 20:52.52 | jelly | davanger: I'll wait until you also put up "ip a" and explain things. |
| 20:53.04 | wonderworld | hey, i defined post-up commands for a nic in /etc/network/interfaces to setup additional stuff (routing, fw). if one of the post-up commands fails, the rest of them is being skipped. is there any way to change this behaviour or to see what went wrong in a logfile? |
| 20:53.38 | jelly | davanger: you seem to have shown the same paste URL with just "ip r", two times |
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| 20:54.12 | nifker | Is it possible to modprobe a usb driver(I dont know the driver name, but the device ID)? |
| 20:54.43 | jelly | wonderworld: your post-up command may look like "ip wotsit foo" or it may look like "ip wotsit foo || true" |
| 20:55.05 | davanger | http://paste.debian.net/1120710 |
| 20:55.35 | voldial | I have a 32bit arm9 eabi toolchain, and a 64bit install, can someone point me to the best way to execute 32bit code on a 64bit system (not qemu, natively)? |
| 20:56.07 | somiaj | I think arm64 supports multiarch |
| 20:56.09 | somiaj | !multiarch |
| 20:56.09 | dpkg | Multiarch allows you to install foreign architecture packages. For example, to allow i386 packages to be installed on an amd64 system: «dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update». See http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch and <multiarch howto>, <multiarch failures>. For the unrelated installer that can install i386 or amd64, see <multi-arch installer>. |
| 20:56.11 | davanger | rmnet_data1 ip has changed... |
| 20:56.30 | davanger | I restarted the device |
| 20:56.45 | somiaj | voldial: so provided the arm64 can run arm32 binaries, you then just need the required libaries. |
| 20:56.52 | wonderworld | jelly: thanks, thats a nice idea. still wondering on how to debug it. i have to set many routes for different interfaces on a box and i would like to know which one failed. couldn't find anythin in messages.... |
| 20:56.58 | somiaj | voldial: arg, arm64 kernel can run |
| 20:57.22 | jelly | wonderworld: sorry, no idea about debugging |
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| 20:57.57 | somiaj | wonderworld: could you just look at the state after the interface was up and see what routes were missing? |
| 20:58.50 | somiaj | or improve the error checking of the different scripts, ip wotsit foo || echo "blah failed" |
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| 20:59.12 | wonderworld | somiaj: problem is i am bringing up 3 interfaces which come up at different times |
| 20:59.23 | jim | wonderworld, when testing something like this, I'll stop my networking (/etc/init.d/networking stop), then collect a listing of all the files in /var/log (so, need to do this as root), ls -l /var/log > ~/A then start networking, and right after that's done, collect again: ls -l /var/log > ~/B |
| 20:59.27 | jelly | somiaj: and where does that echo go? |
| 20:59.29 | wonderworld | i can fiddle it out but i would prefer to find a way to see what is happening |
| 20:59.55 | somiaj | jelly: if ran by systemd, journalctl should take it, if run in a console then there. |
| 21:00.42 | jelly | maybe journal can take stderr from ip commands, too |
| 21:00.47 | jim | wonderworld, then I will run: diff -Naur ~/A ~/B # to see what logs have changed, and then take a look at the changes |
| 21:01.16 | somiaj | journald should have all the output from running the networking service or ifup for all auto interfaces. |
| 21:01.25 | wonderworld | jim: thanks, i will try |
| 21:02.08 | somiaj | wonderworld: systemd should have output from the scripts, maybe 'systemctl status networking' will give you any output (including errors) |
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| 21:02.44 | jelly | davanger: and you cannot reach 192.168.3.21/24 from a different machine in 192.168.3.x/24 over wifi after that default route is set? |
| 21:03.03 | jhutchins_wk | annadane: We run our own repos mostly so that our systems can be firewalled from the internet. |
| 21:03.30 | jelly | see, privilege not a right |
| 21:04.09 | davanger | thats right |
| 21:04.26 | annadane | that's left |
| 21:04.30 | jelly | that _is_ weird |
| 21:04.35 | davanger | I know... |
| 21:05.03 | jelly | davanger: any iptables rules in place? I fear to ask, but which debian release is this? |
| 21:05.19 | davanger | Its an android phone ;D |
| 21:05.31 | jelly | that doesn't answer the question |
| 21:05.46 | davanger | It has a bunch of rules |
| 21:05.59 | davanger | It has an ip table per device |
| 21:06.17 | davanger | So when I activate wlan0 it uses ip table "wlan0" |
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| 21:06.29 | davanger | that is where I was making the edits |
| 21:06.44 | jelly | if the device is not running just debian, and firewall is managed by some non-debian service, then all bets are off |
| 21:07.14 | davanger | its linux... |
| 21:07.18 | jelly | maybe ask in #android or ##networking |
| 21:07.28 | davanger | I was in android |
| 21:07.30 | jelly | davanger: it's not debian however |
| 21:07.35 | davanger | No one had a clue... |
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| 21:07.51 | jhutchins_wk | davanger: There are a lot of variations in different distributions of linux, android is even further from average. |
| 21:07.53 | davanger | Their answer was "why do you need that" |
| 21:07.57 | jelly | let me be blunt |
| 21:08.00 | jelly | !they don't know |
| 21:08.00 | dpkg | We're sorry your distro's channel isn't being helpful, but that doesn't make it appropriate to use #debian for non-Debian questions. Please go back to your channel and wait patiently for better help, or install Debian and party with us. |
| 21:08.51 | davanger | So your help is to tell ppl to gtfo... aha |
| 21:08.53 | davanger | great |
| 21:08.57 | davanger | Lovely |
| 21:09.14 | jhutchins_wk | davanger: We have several clues. Which ones apply to you depend on what you're trying to do, and in this case they don't apply because it's not Debian. |
| 21:09.55 | jhutchins_wk | davanger: What fixes something in Debian can very well break something in Android. |
| 21:09.58 | jelly | davanger: it's just a matter of topic separation. If I want and know how to help people on Android I can join that channel and help there. |
| 21:10.18 | davanger | Ok ill leave |
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| 21:10.33 | Boohbah | davanger: Sorry you chose a distribution with bad support. That is one of my primary criteria when choosing a distro. |
| 21:10.38 | jelly | good luck. |
| 21:10.48 | davanger | Good luck with your human interaction skills.... In life you'll need them |
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| 21:10.56 | davanger | Thanks you and good bye |
| 21:11.32 | annadane | yeah you too. =| |
| 21:11.48 | jelly | and that's why I should have asked that the second I saw p2p0 instead of giving them false hope |
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| 21:16.13 | *** join/#debian KOLANICH (~KOLANICH@unaffiliated/kolanich) |
| 21:16.21 | KOLANICH | Hi. |
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| 21:17.13 | KOLANICH | Are custom metabuild systems acceptable for creation of official packages? |
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| 21:20.10 | jhutchins_wk | !nmg |
| 21:20.11 | dpkg | The packaging tutorial (http://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (http://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. http://www.debian.org/devel/ |
| 21:20.30 | jelly | KOLANICH: it probably depends on how much frameworky you're talking about, if you plan on packaging for Debian inclusion you can ask in #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net (= irc.debian.org) but you'll probably want to be more specific |
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| 21:22.28 | KOLANICH | jelly, jhutchins_wk: Thanks. |
| 21:23.05 | jelly | I guess anything that is stored in a VCS like git and generates a proper .orig.tar.gz and .debian.tar.gz (that in turn are used to generate binary debs) would be acceptable |
| 21:23.15 | somiaj | One thing to consider is the package must be built using tools in debian, so depends on what is needed to build said package. |
| 21:24.00 | jelly | and that in turn means it must be free software |
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| 21:26.15 | KOLANICH | jelly: it is, just not yet very mature and breaking changes are introduced every day. |
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| 21:28.43 | jelly | the requirement to bootstrap debian from debian creates interesting problems in packaging software with fast-moving build dependencies |
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| 21:29.39 | jelly | eg. sometimes debian lags with security updates for 50% of the supported web browsers for a week because of that |
| 21:30.22 | dka | traefik is redirecting me to wrong IP. this IP can only be known after a DNS resolution. How can I see/configure traefik DNS resolution ? |
| 21:30.37 | jelly | ,v traefik |
| 21:30.39 | judd | No package named 'traefik' was found in amd64. |
| 21:31.02 | jelly | dka: are you sure you're in the right channel for that question? |
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| 21:31.43 | greycat | is traefik a web site, or a program you're running, or...? |
| 21:31.57 | dka | traefik is like nginx, except it is designed for containerization and letsencrypt |
| 21:32.07 | dka | it does reverse proxying |
| 21:32.11 | jelly | it's a reverse proxy thing iirc |
| 21:32.22 | jelly | not in debian, apparently |
| 21:32.23 | dka | yeah, it's quite new, I bet people use it here too. |
| 21:32.51 | jelly | are there's an æ in the name |
| 21:32.57 | jelly | and* |
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| 21:33.28 | dka | traefik run by default on debian |
| 21:33.42 | dka | it's there choice for the OS : https://hub.docker.com/_/traefik |
| 21:33.52 | dka | Linux dka 4.19.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.67-2+deb10u2 (2019-11-11) x86_64 Linux |
| 21:34.16 | jelly | debian is a great platform to build useful things on, but this channel sadly cannot support every piece of software that works on top of Debian |
| 21:34.25 | dka | I have created a route but that route get stop by some dumb DNS resolution |
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| 21:34.44 | dka | fair enough.:) |
| 21:34.47 | jelly | fix your dumb dns resolution, maybe |
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| 21:34.57 | dka | Yeah. I'll try that |
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| 21:38.48 | jelly | if you can debug and reproduce the issue down to eg.: dumb DNS resolution does not work for me, "getent hosts backend420.example.org" returns X when it should return Y, then maybe you might get some help on that in here |
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| 21:39.31 | Harm133 | Hi guys, I have a machine where I want to connect to, clean debian install, iptables all cleared. If if do a nc -l and tcpdump on the same host while connecting to it I do so the traffic hitting the machine but not showing in nc output. Any ideas? |
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| 21:40.22 | jelly | Harm133: Linux kernel shortcuts traffic coming from a local IP to a (same or different) local IP, it never appears on the wire |
| 21:40.41 | Harm133 | Its from another machine |
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| 21:42.10 | jelly | Harm133: okay, how do you generate the traffic? is it TCP traffic? Does the client successfully connect()? |
| 21:42.23 | Harm133 | I'm connecting from the other host with nc as well |
| 21:42.28 | Harm133 | It is TCP traffic |
| 21:42.59 | jelly | Harm133: how exactly are you calling the listener netcat? |
| 21:43.08 | Harm133 | 'nc -l 1111' |
| 21:43.30 | jelly | Harm133: and what does dpkg -S $(readlink -f /usr/bin/nc) say? |
| 21:43.54 | jelly | with nc-traditional you want "nc -lp 1111" |
| 21:44.12 | Harm133 | pkg-query: no path found matching pattern /usr/bin/nc.traditional |
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| 21:44.49 | Harm133 | It is debian version 10.2, installed lik 10 minutes ago. |
| 21:44.50 | jelly | that answered the question even if the command was incorrect :-) |
| 21:45.21 | greycat | it's /bin/nc if you upgraded from stretch instead of installing buster |
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| 21:46.36 | jelly | Harm133: you forgot -p, that is important with the flavor of nc you're using |
| 21:46.38 | Harm133 | Its a fresh install |
| 21:46.44 | Harm133 | OH wow alright :) |
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| 21:46.57 | jelly | it's not the same as in, say, nc on RHEL or CentOS or Fedora |
| 21:47.33 | Harm133 | That explains a lot, wow. Thx |
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| 21:48.18 | jelly | judd: whatprovides netcat |
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| 21:48.28 | judd | Package netcat in buster/amd64 is provided by: netcat-openbsd, netcat-traditional. netcat is also a real package. |
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| 21:48.45 | jelly | and then there's socat, and probably other cats |
| 21:48.47 | greycat | a "real" dummy package |
| 21:49.12 | jelly | traditional or TRANSITIONAL |
| 21:49.20 | jelly | hides |
| 21:49.27 | greycat | This is a "dummy" package that depends on lenny's default version of netcat, to ease upgrades. It may be safely removed. |
| 21:49.46 | jelly | ii netcat 1.10-41.1 all TCP/IP swiss army knife -- transitional package |
| 21:49.52 | jelly | well that explains things |
| 21:50.11 | jelly | it's been in transit for a long while |
| 21:50.38 | somiaj | yea, there is really no automatic way to remove those packages after multiple upgrades |
| 21:51.07 | jelly | somiaj: but the nonautomatic way is well described in the release notes |
| 21:51.09 | somiaj | I think I did dpkg -l | grep -i transitional to remove a bunch from the last few releases in one of my last upgrades |
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| 21:51.50 | somiaj | be nice if aptitude could spot transitional ones, though aptitude search ~o is probably not the best place to put them (for the release they are in) |
| 21:52.38 | jelly | yeah but LENNY |
| 21:53.19 | annadane | tell me about the rabbits |
| 21:54.17 | Harm133 | So, this is expected since buster? Or am I misunderstanding |
| 21:54.39 | greycat | what is? having netcat-traditional? |
| 21:55.39 | jelly | I... don't know why I have only /bin/nc.traditional on this buster system but Harm133 has /usr/bin/nc.traditional |
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| 21:55.55 | greycat | upgrade vs. fresh install |
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| 21:55.59 | greycat | !usrmerge |
| 21:55.59 | dpkg | /usr merge is the combining of /bin and /usr/bin, /sbin and /usr/sbin on fresh installs of Debian 10 Buster. On machines upgraded from Stretch, this is optional, and can be accomplished if desired via the usrmerge package |
| 21:56.26 | jelly | oh, that completely needless intrusive change. |
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| 21:57.04 | jelly | ,v usrmerge |
| 21:57.05 | judd | Package: usrmerge on amd64 -- buster: 21; bullseye: 23; sid: 23 |
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| 21:57.50 | Harm133 | Well that explains my troubles then, I used the 'nc -l 1111' on another machine and that worked fine |
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| 21:58.01 | Harm133 | But that one was upgraded from Stretch |
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| 21:58.15 | Harm133 | Cool. Thanks again for the help :) |
| 21:58.30 | greycat | upgrade vs. fresh only explains the /usr/bin vs. /bin part. |
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| 21:58.45 | greycat | there are multiple IMPLEMENTATIONS of netcat, and your other machine is perhaps using the -openbsd one. |
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| 22:01.22 | jelly | yeah, nc.openbsd does bind() even without -p ... nc.traditional does not |
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| 22:02.04 | jelly | that might actually be a 20+ year old bug in that nc |
| 22:03.10 | jelly | it does socket(), no bind(), it does listen() and accept() |
| 22:03.16 | jelly | what use is that |
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| 22:06.29 | jelly | oh, that results in it listening on a random port |
| 22:06.41 | jelly | nc.tradit 32656 jelly 3u IPv4 4054696 0t0 TCP *:37235 (LISTEN) |
| 22:07.33 | Harm133 | Sane behaviour.. |
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| 22:11.36 | Harm133 | well, fun times |
| 22:11.39 | Harm133 | have a good one :) |
| 22:12.20 | jelly | !next |
| 22:12.20 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
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| 22:13.50 | M6HZ | . |
| 22:14.31 | whislock | ! |
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