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| 06:05.59 | *** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.2 point release /msg dpkg 10.2; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch; /msg dpkg 9.11; 9.11 needs dist-upgrade | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 06:06.35 | jm_ | Guestvpn: like I said, that info already exists, try say «modinfo r8169» or «modinfo radeon» |
| 06:07.06 | Guestvpn | jm_ try to imagine the the work to run so many modinfo |
| 06:08.06 | jm_ | Guestvpn: it's trivial to create a script for it, but anyway, feel free to submit a wishlist bug |
| 06:08.41 | Guestvpn | jm_ yes |
| 06:10.15 | Guestvpn | jm_ it would be great for begginers |
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| 06:11.00 | Guestvpn | jm_ as you said we are developers |
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| 08:21.16 | andre144k | hello all... how to use pigz in combination with tar cvf and pigz compressoptions? |
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| 08:21.22 | andre144k | current command is: tar cvf archive1.tar.gz archive1 --use-compress-program=pigz |
| 08:21.39 | andre144k | i want use "pigz --fast" instead |
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| 08:25.41 | BoyDoy | anyone suggest what application i can use for Document Management System. Thank you |
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| 08:25.53 | jm_ | the simplest way is tar c archive1 | pigz --fast > archive1.tar.gz |
| 08:26.33 | jm_ | or use --use-compress-program='pigz --fast' |
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| 08:31.37 | andre144k | jm_, thx |
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| 08:33.49 | jm_ | no problem |
| 08:33.56 | andre144k | jm_, tar c archive1 | pigz - this works stable with archive-folders > 200GB ? |
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| 08:35.03 | jm_ | andre144k: yeah should be no difference, the difference is that with the other way tar creates a pipe, but with this command shell creates it |
| 08:35.22 | andre144k | great |
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| 08:42.50 | nyov | andre144k: I would advise against using XZ for archiving. It can silently corrupt data |
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| 08:44.11 | nyov | or rather, the archive can become corrupt silently. just fyi. bzip2 archives can at least partially be recovered |
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| 08:46.01 | andre144k | i want multithrading support, cause i have to compress > 500GB |
| 08:46.22 | nyov | pbzip2 can also do multithreading |
| 08:46.54 | jm_ | isn't pigz using the same compression as gzip? |
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| 08:47.22 | andre144k | jm_, seems so - i can uncompress via tar xvzf |
| 08:47.24 | nyov | jm_: oh right. My bad! sorry andre144k |
| 08:47.36 | nyov | though gzip2 is also bad at recovery |
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| 08:47.39 | jm_ | nyov: also, interested to read about XZ and corruption issues, do you have a link for that? |
| 08:48.01 | nyov | jm_: let me look that up again. I hope I can find it swiftly |
| 08:48.22 | jm_ | cause I used pxz in the past and now switched to zstd :) |
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| 08:49.36 | nyov | jm_: https://www.nongnu.org/lzip/xz_inadequate.html |
| 08:50.14 | nyov | specifically, point 2.5 |
| 08:50.47 | jm_ | nyov: thank you |
| 08:51.07 | jm_ | so basically it's an issue with the format |
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| 08:59.08 | andre144k | tar cv archive1 | gzip --fast > archive1.tar.gz - howto output filelist from -v in logfile ? |
| 08:59.19 | andre144k | tar cv archive1 | pigz --fast > archive1.tar.gz - howto output filelist from -v in logf |
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| 09:01.56 | andre144k | like: tar cvf archive1.tar.gz archive1 --use-compress-program=pigz >> mylog.txt |
| 09:03.03 | jm_ | tar cv archive1 2>filelist | ... |
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| 09:04.15 | andre144k | ah ... thx sry for this stupid questions :-( |
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| 09:22.32 | TrueSquad | Hello, does anyone know if a debian package is available somewhere? Or the source code of the firmware to be compiled either? https://support.hpe.com/hpsc/swd/public/detail?swItemId=MTX_d3e267e0291840c9834ace4e99 |
| 09:22.55 | TrueSquad | related bug => https://support.hpe.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-a00092491en_us |
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| 09:25.06 | jm_ | are you seriously expecting to find source code for a commercial SSD product? |
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| 09:27.49 | andre144k | jm_, for information... 19GB src-data via pigz without --fast option: 40min / 10GB compressed archive. - with --fast option: 8min 12GB compressed archive |
| 09:27.52 | andre144k | heavy |
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| 09:53.21 | TrueSquad | jm_ I know it's unlikely |
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| 09:53.23 | Sanderei | Hi. I have some trouble with x11 on a chromebook. When I start an application like kdenlive it starts showing black boxes and green dots |
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| 10:01.49 | Miles8of9 | ook!! i installed buster on my notebook... had to install manually "firmware-linux-nonfree" package but it's ok |
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| 10:02.17 | Miles8of9 | now....! touchpad isn't working! mouse arrow is there but it's not moving! |
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| 10:02.54 | humbot | ook |
| 10:03.09 | Miles8of9 | btw.... installation took less than 1 hour and it emptied my battery! omg lol |
| 10:03.56 | Miles8of9 | btw2... battery is almost new.... Oo |
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| 10:05.44 | Sanderei | can't install firmware-linux-nonfree |
| 10:05.57 | Sanderei | not in the pakagelist |
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| 10:06.38 | Miles8of9 | hehe!! you need to include nonfree repository! |
| 10:07.02 | Miles8of9 | in your /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 10:08.10 | Miles8of9 | you need something like deb <repo http> buster main contrib non-free |
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| 10:09.33 | Miles8of9 | the apt-get update and you should find it |
| 10:09.46 | Haohmaru | he gone |
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| 10:16.29 | vlt | Hello. I created a Debian-live iso using live-build. In the early stages of the project everything runs fine. When I add an /etc/crypttab with a line like "my_target /foo/bar none luks" and a corresponding /etc/fstab I get the passphrase prompt while booting. (https://imgur.com/a/2Lidw6U img1) Ok. But after entering (log https://dpaste.org/Gts8 line 511) I get "[*** ] A Start job is running ..." |
| 10:16.31 | vlt | (img2) and finally after timeout "Cannot open access to console ... press Enter" (img3). |
| 10:16.35 | vlt | Any iea how to fix this? |
| 10:16.40 | vlt | *idea |
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| 10:19.20 | Haohmaru | i thought "eth0" is no longer a thang |
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| 10:22.29 | f8e3 | whats the best staemachine builder? |
| 10:22.37 | f8e3 | a gui frontend for dot.exe? |
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| 10:41.13 | f8e3 | dot foo.dot foo.ps is bollox for quick design |
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| 11:26.30 | andre144k | is there any way/chance that "tar cvzf archive1 arcchive1.tar.gz" is storing insided *tar.gz" files (e.g. archive1/foo/bar/foobar.tar.gz) 1:1 instead compress again inside archive1.tar.gz ? |
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| 11:47.47 | satanist | hi i have strange bug in bash with folowing code: while read -r h ; do ssh "$h" "hostname" ; done < hosts |
| 11:48.01 | satanist | the loop stops after the first sucessfull ssh command |
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| 11:48.48 | ayekat | satanist: that's likely because ssh then proceeds to read from stdin (i.e. all the remaining files in your `hosts` file) |
| 11:49.01 | satanist | ah thanks |
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| 11:49.28 | ayekat | *all the remaining lines - but I think you get what I mean ^^ |
| 11:50.34 | satanist | yes, this was the problem |
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| 11:51.08 | satanist | thanks searched now 30min for this |
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| 12:34.39 | f8e3 | is there an rss feed for https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/ list? |
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| 12:38.07 | oerheks | there are rss feeds .. https://wiki.debianforum.de/Debian_RSS-Feeds |
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| 12:43.49 | jelly | damn, am I using proxy again, everything is in German |
| 12:44.00 | Haohmaru | oh noes |
| 12:44.03 | avu | ja ja |
| 12:44.05 | Haohmaru | ze h0rr0r |
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| 12:46.01 | oerheks | wass? |
| 12:46.21 | Haohmaru | ja nicht parles ze doych |
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| 12:47.28 | avu | ze releaxen and watschen der blinkenlichten |
| 12:47.44 | Haohmaru | ah, gut, gut |
| 12:47.50 | Haohmaru | O_O |
| 12:48.07 | ratrace | *blink* *blink* *blinky-blink* |
| 12:48.18 | Haohmaru | -_- O_O -_- O_O |
| 12:48.54 | Haohmaru | das ist nicht very vundabah |
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| 12:56.00 | xj | I am trying to install KVM and keep getting a dependency on libpython3.5, but I can't install that. It says there is no installation candidate. I have python 3.7.5 installed. |
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| 12:57.04 | xj | I am on buster. any idea how i might get past this? |
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| 12:57.48 | ratrace | are you abusing third party repos? |
| 12:58.13 | ratrace | or better, start by explaining _exactly_ what you're trying to do, which package you're trying to install, etc... |
| 12:59.25 | xj | I am trying to install vert-manager. |
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| 13:00.25 | ratrace | xj: can you pastebin `apt-cache policy virt-manager` ? |
| 13:02.00 | xj | https://pastebin.com/6VW6ah80 |
| 13:02.53 | dvs | !frankendebian |
| 13:02.53 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 13:03.46 | Haohmaru | Debistein >:) |
| 13:04.29 | ratrace | xj: what dvs and dpkg said |
| 13:04.37 | xj | ah... fair enough. |
| 13:04.48 | jelly | xj: mixing a newer release branch is ill-advised, your installation is probably unsupportable. You can fully upgrade to testing, or reinstall |
| 13:04.59 | jelly | if you choose to go testing, |
| 13:05.02 | jelly | !debian-next |
| 13:05.02 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
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| 13:05.35 | xj | thank you for the assistance. I had forgotten about adding testing |
| 13:05.42 | jelly | (also, don't use "testing" in sources.list, use bullseye to avoid surprises next time testing becomes something other than bullseye) |
| 13:06.13 | jelly | if you did not actually install anything from testing the situation might be salvageable |
| 13:06.22 | xj | bullseye? |
| 13:06.44 | xj | the next release name? |
| 13:08.00 | jelly | yes, what "testing" repo currently points to |
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| 13:08.12 | jelly | !bullseye |
| 13:08.12 | dpkg | The release following Debian 10 "Buster" is codenamed "Bullseye" (Woody's horse in Toy Story 2) and will be Debian 11. It is the current "testing" release. Remember that straight after a stable release, all sorts of mess suddenly lands in "testing" and it is best avoided if you don't like debugging things. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2016/07/msg00002.html |
| 13:08.47 | butts | RIDE LIKE THE WIND, BULLSEYE |
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| 13:13.25 | EdePopede | !wwbr |
| 13:13.25 | dpkg | Debian 10 "Buster" started the <freeze> process on 2019-01-12 and should release on July 6, 2019. See https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/06/msg00003.html. |
| 13:13.43 | EdePopede | would suggest some kind of update, the one or the other way |
| 13:14.42 | xj | went full testing.... |
| 13:15.31 | jelly | dpkg, literal wwbr |
| 13:15.31 | dpkg | "wwbr" is "<reply>Debian 10 "Buster" started the <freeze> process on 2019-01-12 and should release on July 6, 2019. See https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/06/msg00003.html." |
| 13:15.44 | xj | ok, so because I am now on bullseye. when bullseye becomes stable, no more problems. i hope |
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| 13:16.56 | avu | which will be in 1.5 years or so :) |
| 13:17.02 | xj | hahahaha... |
| 13:17.20 | avu | I'm not kidding |
| 13:17.36 | xj | i didn't think you were |
| 13:18.05 | xj | i guess i'll backup up my configs and files and reinstall |
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| 13:32.39 | B1llW1gg0n | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:32.46 | dvs | no! |
| 13:34.35 | jelly | B1llW1gg0n: now do that without any spaces in front of /join |
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| 13:34.44 | B|ack0p | hi jelly :p |
| 13:34.56 | jelly | hi |
| 13:34.58 | B1llW1gg0n | doh! thanks |
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| 13:40.17 | MarioMey | Hi, there. I'm having troubles with unmet dependencies, trying to compile Blender. |
| 13:40.20 | MarioMey | The following packages have unmet dependencies: |
| 13:40.20 | MarioMey | libglewmx-dev : Conflicts: libglew-dev but 2.0.0-3+b1 is to be installed |
| 13:40.20 | MarioMey | E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. |
| 13:40.24 | MarioMey | The problem is, in this system (Debian 9), I can't have libglewmx-dev and libglew-dev installed at the same time. WhY? |
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| 14:07.22 | jelly | ,v libglew-dev |
| 14:07.23 | judd | Package: libglew-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 1.10.0-3; stretch: 2.0.0-3+b1; buster: 2.1.0-4; bullseye: 2.1.0-4+b1; sid: 2.1.0-4+b1 |
| 14:07.30 | jelly | ,v libglewmx-dev |
| 14:07.31 | judd | Package: libglewmx-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 1.10.0-3; stretch: 1.13.0-3; bullseye: 1.13.0-4+b11; buster: 1.13.0-4+b11; sid: 1.13.0-4+b11 |
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| 14:35.18 | zodd | Is it possible to query a .deb file for (unmet) dependecies without installing it with dpkg ? I can think of --dry-run and manually checking dependencies. Obviously I prefer an automated proces. |
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| 14:36.42 | hacktime | zodd: I *think* that apt install --dry-run will do similar while also checking deps. |
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| 14:37.57 | zodd | hacktime, but does that not reference a repo instead of a file? |
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| 15:01.09 | hacktime | It does both. |
| 15:01.20 | hacktime | apt install --dry-run ./file.deb |
| 15:02.19 | Haohmaru | on lxde/lxpanel, i got a calendar, but teh week starts from sunday x_x |
| 15:02.41 | Haohmaru | how do i fix this madness ;P~ |
| 15:02.44 | ratrace | Orage? |
| 15:02.54 | Haohmaru | not sure.. lemme see |
| 15:02.55 | ratrace | neway, that should be configurable |
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| 15:03.17 | hacktime | zodd: See above. |
| 15:03.42 | zodd | thanks |
| 15:04.01 | Haohmaru | ratrace afaict, it's part of the "digital clock" widget |
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| 15:08.10 | EdePopede | Haohmaru: in xfce the context menus for the widgets start with their name. have the same here with its DateTime. irritating, since i'm never sure about week numbers. |
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| 15:09.32 | Haohmaru | at home i think i use akchually xfce4 panel specifically for the fancier clock, but i think there the calendar too starts from sunday x_x |
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| 15:11.31 | ratrace | Haohmaru: it should be configurable anyway, and maybe it's relying on locale |
| 15:11.49 | JordiGH | I want a window with an oscilloscope or any other kind of visualisation of the current audio playing. What's my best bet to do this? |
| 15:11.55 | ratrace | first day of the week is definitely a locale attribute |
| 15:12.32 | Haohmaru | it's awkward cuz in my language tuesday means second-ish, wednesday means middle-ish, thursday means four-ish, and friday is straight five-ish |
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| 15:13.11 | jhutchins_wk | Virtuallbox does not like it when my laptop hibernates. |
| 15:13.16 | JordiGH | Ooh, projectm-pulseaudio, perhaps? |
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| 15:17.46 | Haohmaru | if i set locale to BG, will many things turn into bulgarian? like.. the text in UIs, the text in terminals..? |
| 15:17.53 | Haohmaru | coz that is a big "no" for me |
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| 15:20.18 | JordiGH | free(): double free detected in tcache 2 |
| 15:20.18 | JordiGH | Aborted |
| 15:20.27 | JordiGH | Dammit, projectM, you disappoint me so quickly. |
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| 15:26.17 | JordiGH | https://bugs.debian.org/924925 |
| 15:26.18 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/924925 in projectm-pulseaudio (open, patch, fixed-upstream, upstream): «projectm-pulseaudio crashes after a few seconds»; severity: serious; opened: 2019-03-18; last modified: 2019-12-15. |
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| 15:28.12 | EdePopede | the definition of week*end* |
| 15:28.13 | JordiGH | Hm, so do I have to rebuild with the patch? |
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| 15:29.02 | EdePopede | ,v projectm-pulseaudio |
| 15:29.03 | judd | Package: projectm-pulseaudio on amd64 -- jessie: 2.1.0+dfsg-1+b1; stretch: 2.1.0+dfsg-4+b3; buster: 2.1.0+dfsg-4+b4; sid: 2.1.0+dfsg-4+b4 |
| 15:31.58 | JordiGH | Yeah, no patch yet. |
| 15:32.04 | JordiGH | Fine, nbd, I'll patch myself. |
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| 15:32.22 | JordiGH | https://jordi.platinum.edu.pl/piccies/freedom.jpg |
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| 15:33.55 | colo-work | :D |
| 15:33.58 | EdePopede | pdo is irritating |
| 15:34.11 | EdePopede | bdo should really link to the packages there somewhere |
| 15:34.25 | JordiGH | Also, why isn't it already a requirement to have some kind of file that explains why there's a "dfsg" in the version number? |
| 15:34.51 | EdePopede | had to recall a link from the past of another package, but not even buster gave me a hit after replacing the package name in the url bar(!) |
| 15:34.56 | JordiGH | EdePopede: Unless I'm reading this wrong, there's no backport yet, is there? |
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| 15:37.23 | EdePopede | that's all i get https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=names&keywords=projectm-pulseaudio |
| 15:37.39 | JordiGH | Do you still have to use quilt manually to patch deb packages? |
| 15:37.40 | joepublic | JordiGH, the dfsg info is in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright |
| 15:38.37 | EdePopede | !dfsg |
| 15:38.37 | dpkg | DFSG is the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are explained at http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines . For a full list of DFSG-compatible/incompatible software licenses, see http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses |
| 15:38.56 | EdePopede | can't even remember what that cryptic bunch of letters mean |
| 15:39.05 | JordiGH | joepublic: *Sometimes* |
| 15:39.13 | joepublic | point taken. |
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| 15:40.02 | JordiGH | In this case, it seems there were some useless binaries removed from the tarball, but I'm just guessing that was the change. |
| 15:40.16 | JordiGH | It doesn't actually say, "hey, this is why we put dfsg in the version number". |
| 15:40.48 | JordiGH | EdePopede: dfsg is not cryptic, you must be new to Debian. :P |
| 15:40.56 | JordiGH | dfsg is mostly the main reason I still use Debian. |
| 15:41.07 | JordiGH | For the https://jordi.platinum.edu.pl/piccies/freedom.jpg |
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| 15:42.49 | EdePopede | JordiGH: long ago the same thing passed through my head. "why not have a form which has to be filled completely before submit?" inluding selection lists - in suse's kde i once had not only a submenu "mediaplayers" but also "media players" with a single entry, and titles especially for series never seem to follow a clear pattern on TV station sites, not even if it's just one of those mini series with 6 episodes only, you can see exactly when the main |
| 15:42.49 | EdePopede | staff is on holiday. |
| 15:43.11 | EdePopede | people seem to simply be not able to handle such things most of the times. |
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| 15:43.47 | JordiGH | I'm sorry, what? What are we talking about? We do not have the same things passing through our heads. |
| 15:44.00 | EdePopede | JordiGH: for me it reads mostly like "Deutsche [insert something for f and s here] Gesellschaft" |
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| 15:44.20 | EdePopede | > a requirement to have some kind of file that explains why there's a "dfsg" |
| 15:45.16 | EdePopede | people won't do it and neither would be d'accord with an implementation forcing them to do it. especially if they don't do it anyway. |
| 15:46.07 | JordiGH | Oh, that. Debian already has ways to enforce such things. It's called Lintian. |
| 15:47.00 | EdePopede | it can't enforce it too hard if there still are packages without that file ;) |
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| 15:48.26 | JordiGH | Lintian doesn't have a rule specifically for dfsg in the version name, though. |
| 15:48.33 | Iacob | I think Guix is more freedom |
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| 15:48.41 | Iacob | and freedom is not free |
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| 15:52.24 | hacktime | Iacob: Not really relevant in here, is it? |
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| 15:55.35 | Iacob | I means document of many other distributions is not such good |
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| 15:56.52 | hacktime | Iacob: Still not sure of the relevance. |
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| 15:59.47 | JordiGH | Eh, I for one appreciate the Guix plug. |
| 15:59.54 | JordiGH | Power, my GNU/Brethren. |
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| 16:00.22 | joepublic | Iacob, parabola has a file listing why each package not meeting their standard (FSDG) falls short, but debian has no comparable file I don't think |
| 16:00.28 | joepublic | for example |
| 16:00.29 | JordiGH | Nice, applying that patch seems to have fixed the projectm crash. |
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| 16:01.04 | JordiGH | Ooh, I'm excited. I'm going to be streaming a rhythm game later today and I wanted a good visualisation for the music. |
| 16:01.24 | joepublic | for such a list for debian to be automatically generated, there would need to be a standardized file as previously mentioned. |
| 16:01.31 | JordiGH | I can use OBS and mednafen and projectm and some custom Python scripts I wrote, and oh my god, so much free software just to have fun with. |
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| 16:07.47 | hodapp | hides from JordiGH |
| 16:09.30 | Haohmaru | aims a spotlight projector at hodapp |
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| 16:27.39 | GenTooMan | Now to replace windows 10 with something useful... |
| 16:28.20 | dvs | DOS? |
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| 16:31.11 | Iacob | freedos |
| 16:31.46 | Iacob | it should be free |
| 16:32.44 | ratrace | why, with gentoo of course. |
| 16:33.28 | hodapp | I just put FreeDOS onto an old craptop. |
| 16:33.30 | hodapp | not sure why. |
| 16:33.35 | hodapp | alcohol may have played a role. |
| 16:33.38 | johnjay | to run turbo C? |
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| 16:34.27 | GenTooMan | you can run turbo C in DosBox... |
| 16:34.35 | Iacob | and install a emacs |
| 16:35.02 | Iacob | and always keep in mind you can do everything with emacs |
| 16:35.07 | johnjay | even emacs in dos? |
| 16:35.32 | hacktime | except edit text files decently |
| 16:35.49 | GenTooMan | <smirk> |
| 16:36.07 | dvs | !start an editor war |
| 16:36.07 | dpkg | nano users can't think straight! |
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| 16:36.36 | Iacob | I remember that I saw it |
| 16:36.41 | hacktime | My mental issues have nothing to do with text editors, believe me |
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| 16:37.24 | hodapp | GenTooMan: IT'S NOT THE SAME |
| 16:37.33 | hodapp | johnjay: yes, it's still maintained |
| 16:37.36 | hodapp | for some reason |
| 16:38.14 | GenTooMan | they can build a binary and most computers that are still around have at least a 386 in them? |
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| 16:39.15 | hodapp | wow, check your privilege |
| 16:39.54 | hacktime | i have sudo rights, yes |
| 16:40.15 | andre144k | is there a way to call manually nfs-sync ? maybe as cron each 10minutes? |
| 16:40.36 | andre144k | or do i need sync-option in /etc/exports? |
| 16:40.44 | Iacob | 640k memory can't do everything but emacs can |
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| 16:45.43 | GenTooMan | it might take a while however |
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| 16:59.02 | francis_murtagh | Hi, regarding packaging, If I have a debian/control/Build-Depends dependency of libboost-filesystem-dev which is greater than or equal to 1.64, but that system library is not available on older distros, should I just make build the package for the newer distros like buster or unstable and forget about older distros? like some users might be on ubuntu 16.04 |
| 17:01.22 | joepublic | I might not be able to think straight but I am glad that pico-power was made free just the same |
| 17:01.37 | jelly | francis_murtagh: it depends, but usually versioned build-deps on boost are there for a reason, and that reason is functionality actually being used |
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| 17:04.04 | jelly | francis_murtagh: you could a) backport boost as well, which might be painful b) maybe be able to make a static or semi-static build on one platform that links with boost statically and happens to work on an older platform c) see if the code ACTUALLY needs that version |
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| 17:04.54 | jelly | d) not use deb format for distribution but some other package format that alows you to bring the libs along |
| 17:05.58 | ratrace | underhanded flatpak/snapd advertisement ftw. |
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| 17:07.53 | jelly | how is it underhanded |
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| 17:09.47 | jelly | francis_murtagh: picking b) or d) means you now also have to care about (security) issues in all the build deps you ship as well, in addition to the piece of software itself |
| 17:10.12 | jelly | s/build// |
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| 17:16.46 | mason | jelly: Backporting boost shouldn't be too painful, assuming it doesn't jump across a new language standard. |
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| 17:30.15 | jelly | nod. a) also requires having to care about boost as well, not just b) and d) |
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| 17:42.28 | pie3 | have you gone thru machine learning course-andrew ng/i would like to try some octave code online/online octave compiler/interpreter available? |
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| 17:54.19 | spacebug^ | After reading https://wiki.debian.org/SSDOptimization I'm getting that TRIM is not needed or not even recommended anymore? At least not on new SSDs? |
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| 17:56.50 | hacktime | Not true. |
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| 17:57.29 | hacktime | Theres a periodic trim systemd timer that you should enable. Thatll take care of everything. fstrim.timer, I believe. |
| 17:57.32 | hacktime | spacebug^: ^ |
| 17:58.01 | hacktime | Its the fstab 'discard' option thats discouraged. |
| 17:58.42 | spacebug^ | hum ok |
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| 18:00.30 | humbot | hmm |
| 18:00.31 | spacebug^ | thanks hacktime |
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| 18:20.27 | Miles8of9 | debian says battery 0% and not charging! |
| 18:20.40 | Miles8of9 | how do i tell debian to recharge battery? |
| 18:21.10 | Miles8of9 | (btw i think battery is charged but i may be wrong) |
| 18:22.06 | diogenes_ | Miles8of9, one method is to unplug ac and wait a few minutes. |
| 18:22.32 | Miles8of9 | in few seconds the laptop goes to sleep |
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| 18:23.15 | diogenes_ | why? |
| 18:23.37 | Miles8of9 | because he thinks battery is 0% |
| 18:23.50 | Miles8of9 | so to protect the system he goes to sleep |
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| 18:24.58 | diogenes_ | then change power settings to not take any actions on critical battery level. |
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| 18:27.56 | Miles8of9 | how do i change power settings? |
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| 18:28.35 | diogenes_ | it depends on DE. |
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| 18:32.20 | n_1-c_k | Miles8of9, try package 'tlp'. |
| 18:33.34 | Miles8of9 | have no DE... mouse does not work.. i can run gnome etc... but mouse arrow won't move! |
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| 18:36.58 | zerocool | friends my goal is to p2v a dell poweredge that may or may not have hardware that requires nonfree firmware. does anyone know if virt-p2v-make-disk already has this firmware or how i can add it? |
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| 18:58.54 | stockholm | does debian-science have a irc channel? |
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| 18:59.15 | josef_October | could someone please upload this file to wikileaks it is endlessly important!!! Its about safety of the whole human mankind | https://ufile.io/c7dtbmnl |
| 18:59.15 | josef_October | <josef_October> my computer is beeing controled thats why i cannot upload it |
| 18:59.16 | stockholm | i have quesitons about sage |
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| 19:01.17 | annadane | stockholm, yeah #debian-science on OFTC |
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| 19:01.28 | hacktime | !ops josef_October spamming |
| 19:01.28 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: hacktime complains about a problem (see above) |
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| 19:12.24 | somiaj | stockholm: what is your quesiton about ssage, is it about installing it in debian or using it? There is #sagemath |
| 19:14.04 | stockholm | somiaj, it seems to be a version mismatch between the GAP package and sage in debian testing. #sagemath cant help, its an issue with debian |
| 19:14.30 | somiaj | ahh so this is a #debian-next issue, have you filed a bug report (or looked for one)? |
| 19:14.52 | stockholm | #debian-next? what is that? |
| 19:15.01 | somiaj | anyways #debian-next on irc.oftc.net is the channel for debian testing/unstable questions |
| 19:15.16 | somiaj | in this case it sounds like a bug in the package, so look at bug reports or file one (if it is truely a version missmatch) |
| 19:15.29 | stockholm | right |
| 19:16.30 | somiaj | basic advise for this kind if issue is, can you install gap from sid (so there is no longer a missmatch), you can also check out snapshot.debian.org to find older packages, so you can install the packages that won't have a missmatch while you wait for the bug to be resolved (after it is filed) |
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| 19:19.22 | stockholm | ok, i will try the unstable package |
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| 19:35.08 | vlt | Hello. I created a Debian-live iso using live-build. In the early stages of the project everything runs fine. When I add an /etc/crypttab with a line like "my_target /foo/bar none luks" I get the passphrase prompt while booting. (https://imgur.com/a/2Lidw6U img1) Ok ... |
| 19:35.40 | vlt | But adding a corresponding /etc/fstab (log https://dpaste.org/Gts8 line 511) I get "[*** ] A Start job is running ..." (img2) and finally after timeout "Cannot open access to console ... press Enter" (img3). |
| 19:35.54 | vlt | Any idea what might cause this? |
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| 19:40.05 | somiaj | vlt: unsure if #debian-live on irc.oftc.net might be of better help for that question |
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| 19:48.29 | vlt | somiaj: Will try that, though I'm not sure if this is a debian-live problem or just something I forgot to add properly for a normal boot. |
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| 20:04.34 | dn4 | Is arm64 good for the ARM Cortex-A72 |
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| 20:21.14 | Zambezi | I can use cryptsetup before I start Xorg, but not after. Is there any solution than going back to old stable? |
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| 20:23.46 | loquace | hello |
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| 20:25.20 | crapulon | salut les français débianeux ! |
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| 20:25.52 | EdePopede | !fr |
| 20:25.52 | dpkg | Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr or #debian-quebec. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr or #debian-quebec. |
| 20:26.05 | EdePopede | ils sont là je crois ;) |
| 20:26.17 | crapulon | ahahaha merci |
| 20:26.19 | EdePopede | et salut, crapulon |
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| 20:26.25 | crapulon | salut EdePopede |
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| 20:28.48 | mason | Zambezi: You should be able to use cryptsetup whenever you like. |
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| 20:30.27 | Zambezi | mason: I can't. bash: cryptsetup: command not found |
| 20:30.36 | greycat | !buster su |
| 20:30.37 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 20:30.57 | greycat | we're going to be seeing this one for a *decade* |
| 20:31.05 | mason | Zambezi: That's got nothing to do with X. |
| 20:31.20 | mason | Ah. |
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| 20:33.19 | somiaj | And at that time they'll change it back |
| 20:33.25 | Zambezi | mason: My theory is that some package interfering with cryptsetup, which is launched after startx. It's really impractical to only be able to use cryptsetup after reboot, before Xorg starts. |
| 20:33.35 | mason | Zambezi: No, read what greycat said. |
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| 20:33.54 | greycat | and more importantly, what dpkg said in response |
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| 20:36.10 | Zambezi | mason: My apologies. Didn't realise it was meant for me. |
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| 20:37.03 | mason | Zambezi: As long as you're good to go, we're happy. |
| 20:37.21 | Zambezi | greycat: Thanks alot. When I reboot my computer, I always log in as root first to start cryptsetup. Then I exit and log in as my regular user. |
| 20:37.35 | somiaj | Zambezi: in the future you should give more than 'doesn't work', you should look at the error that is produced. command found in one context but not found in another should indicate the PATH |
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| 20:39.15 | Zambezi | mason: I certainly am. A great relief. |
| 20:41.20 | Zambezi | somiaj: I did at first, but it was a bit too long so I shortened it to a summary. And if I got help, I would be more specific. Now I got the solution straight away. |
| 20:41.43 | somiaj | it is usually easier to get help being more specific at the start |
| 20:42.24 | greycat | pasting the (single line) error message is typically the fastest way to get to the answer |
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| 20:43.58 | ALowther | I am trying to start nginx.service, it fails. I checked /etc/systemd/system and nginx.service exists, but it is empty. What might this mean? |
| 20:44.28 | greycat | it might mean you, or your predecessor, screwed up |
| 20:44.49 | somiaj | remove /etc/systemd/system/nginx.service if it is empty, and the run systemctl daemon-reload to use the system on in /lib/systemd/system |
| 20:44.56 | greycat | is /etc/systemd/system/nginx.service a regular file, and empty? or is it a symlink to /dev/null? or something else? |
| 20:45.15 | ALowther | greycat: It is a sym to /dev/null |
| 20:45.20 | greycat | then someone masked it. |
| 20:45.22 | somiaj | (oh yea forgot it links to /dev/null if masked?) |
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| 20:45.44 | greycat | someone wanted nginx to be utterly incapable of starting (that's what mask is) |
| 20:46.04 | greycat | so, either remove that symlink, or use "systemctl unmask nginx.service" |
| 20:46.12 | ALowther | greycat: Hmmmm, would it be automasked on `apt remove nginx`? |
| 20:46.20 | somiaj | nope |
| 20:46.22 | ALowther | Only I've had access to this VPS. I definitely didn't mask it. |
| 20:46.25 | greycat | I don't know what purging does with a mask. |
| 20:46.49 | greycat | oh, you didnm' |
| 20:47.02 | greycat | oh, you didn't say "autoUNmasked" as I thought you did |
| 20:47.15 | somiaj | maybe some script you ran to set something up masked it. |
| 20:47.42 | somiaj | either way at this point I would just unmask it and move on |
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| 20:47.49 | greycat | if you have a timestamp on the symlink, that might be a clue to when it happened, but you might never figure out why |
| 20:49.03 | Zambezi | somiaj, greycat: Your feedback is taken in consideration, if I need help again, I promise to be specific from the very first message. |
| 20:49.40 | r4u1 | help |
| 20:49.47 | somiaj | !ask |
| 20:49.47 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
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| 20:54.43 | jhutchins_wk | ALowther: Which release are you runnng? |
| 20:54.58 | ALowther | Debian Buster |
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| 20:57.02 | jhutchins_wk | I just realised that having available targets and symlinking them to the "active" directory, like what we do with Apache sites & modules, is pretty much an extension of how rc.d scripts worked. |
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| 21:02.19 | ksk | sounds 1990 to me ;) /hides |
| 21:02.21 | somiaj | jhutchins_wk: I kinda like that model over the foo.d modle that only reads .conf files, so files you don't want active you have to rename to .conf.something |
| 21:02.58 | somiaj | plus allows more freedom on naming things, though sometimes I wish there was a better way to controll the order than 000-foo, 001-foo, and so on |
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| 21:07.12 | ALowther | jhutchins_wk greycat somiaj: Thank you for your thoughts. |
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| 21:12.41 | busch | What are the minimum hardware requirements for an debian 10 with apache2 for a downloadserver with no more than 5 concurrent connections? Can I possibly go as low as 256 or 128mb of memory? |
| 21:13.08 | somiaj | you are gonna be not liking life with that little memeory |
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| 21:13.27 | greycat | I wouldn't choose apache2 for a purely static web content server with minimal hardware as a core goal. |
| 21:13.46 | somiaj | https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch03s04.en.html |
| 21:14.14 | somiaj | minimum requirement is 256megs (though you can get away with less, it is going to be a pain to run a server without at least 512) |
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| 21:14.55 | busch | Oh, I didn't see the official requirements. Then I will stick with 512MB |
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| 21:15.24 | somiaj | and I would listen to greycat, there are far more light weight web servers than apache2 |
| 21:15.58 | greycat | "all of them" |
| 21:16.33 | busch | somiaj, apache2 is something my collegues and myself are familiar with. They are probably going to hate me if I do anything other than what we already have I our environment |
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| 21:16.58 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: Maybe not iis. |
| 21:17.28 | somiaj | busch: nginx isn't that different, and neither is lighthttpd, espically for a simple static server. |
| 21:18.37 | jhutchins_wk | Especially as you're not going to need all the apache module functionality. |
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| 21:19.07 | busch | somiaj, Then I have to write specific documentation on that server. And I am not intested in writing documentation tomorrow :) |
| 21:20.02 | busch | And: SSL/TLS settings can be very complex. I guess they differ on nginx or other webservers. So I have to maintain a template for that... |
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| 21:21.35 | somiaj | took me about 20 mins to get nginx up with ssl |
| 21:21.51 | somiaj | but either way, it will just help you survive off of less resources |
| 21:22.04 | jaakkos | busch: there are so many people using nginx that you will most likely find 100% valid example configuration from vendors like AWS, Azure, etc... |
| 21:22.33 | greycat | or even #debian |
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| 21:26.07 | greycat | https://news.netcraft.com/archives/category/web-server-survey/ says nginx is the most popular web server now, followed by Apache, then Microsoft, then Google(?) |
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| 21:32.11 | GenTooMan | tell me what some of the problems with AMD radeon graphics are? I noticed that the the graphics are messed up for the install DVD. |
| 21:32.53 | greycat | you probably need firmware. you might also need a newer version of Debian, depending on how bleeding-edge the hardware is. |
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| 21:33.23 | GenTooMan | 10.2 install? |
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| 21:34.00 | GenTooMan | It seems to mess up both graphic install and text install. Rather disappointing. |
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| 21:36.17 | GenTooMan | I'm using pheonix bios with lenovo and updated the bios before starting. |
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| 21:37.20 | somiaj | you can disable modesetting that sometimes helps |
| 21:37.33 | somiaj | use the nomodeset boot parameter |
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| 21:43.02 | GenTooMan | !dpkg nomodeset |
| 21:43.10 | GenTooMan | !nomodeset |
| 21:43.46 | greycat | !modesetting |
| 21:43.46 | dpkg | Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) has graphical modes initialized by the Linux kernel instead of X. It is hardware dependent, introduced in Linux 2.6.29. Enabled via modprobe as of xserver-xorg-video-intel 2:2.9.1-2 and xserver-xorg-video-radeon 1:6.12.192-2. To disable, edit /etc/modprobe.d/{i915,radeon}-kms.conf or boot with the 'nomodeset' kernel command line parameter. http://wiki.debian.org/KernelModesetting |
| 21:43.49 | somiaj | its a kernel boot prameter you have to add to grub during the boot |
| 21:43.59 | towo` | i would use the firmware-installer instead of disabling modesetting |
| 21:44.35 | somiaj | Does the firmware installer contain gpu firmware too? I guess that makes sense but though it was mostly network cards. |
| 21:44.38 | EdePopede | greycat, from apache's dsc (even on stretch): The result has long been the number one web server on the Internet. |
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| 21:44.56 | EdePopede | apache's website still claims leadership :) |
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| 21:45.22 | somiaj | might be a hard thing to quantify, but more and more static sites are switching to nginx |
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| 21:46.06 | towo` | somiaj, it includes all distributable firmware, so even the gpu firmware |
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| 21:46.47 | EdePopede | even more: if you use apache AND nginx in a proxy setup and loadbalancers, how do you count them? |
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| 21:47.43 | somiaj | yea, that might be it, nginx is being used for proxies on vms not be accurate |
| 21:48.33 | nkuttler | i use nginx everywhere, i simply prefer the config syntax over apache httpd |
| 21:48.40 | somiaj | Seems about 2014 apache started loosing to other servers, though wonder what microsfot did between 2014 and 2018 to gain so much percentage. |
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| 21:50.14 | ksk | they gained percentage? :o |
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| 21:50.31 | ksk | I think the point "apache2 might live behind an (nginx) proxy nowadays" is also valid. |
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| 21:52.15 | busch | somiaj, Just a guess: Azure |
| 21:53.51 | EdePopede | IIS on Wine on Linux? :) https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-developer-reveals-linux-is-now-more-used-on-azure-than-windows-server/ |
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| 21:58.41 | GenTooMan | towo` so basically add the firmware to a USB drive and hope the install CD picks it up. Maybe I shouldn't have done the net install DVD bleah. |
| 21:59.15 | somiaj | !firmware images |
| 21:59.15 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
| 21:59.33 | somiaj | no use the unoffical firmware image, which the hope is comes with firmware for your amdgpu |
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| 22:10.30 | GenTooMan | ok... now to see if it ever stops checksum checking (bleah) |
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| 22:12.43 | bigterd | hm. seems i've lost 2 drives during a reshsape from raid5> raid6. it's still reshaping. should i interrupt or let it continue? |
| 22:13.01 | bigterd | kinda worried. the reason of the move was to prevent 2 failed drives!!! |
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| 22:15.48 | noahmg123 | Ok, so I got a new laptop and I want to install Linux on it. But I wanted to test out a few things first. So I took a USB stick and put Debian Live on it. However, it doesn't really work well. I got it to boot once, but when I tried to shut down, I got a error that said "soft lockup - cpu#5 suck for 22s". The error repeated a couple times, until I held down the power button to force it to turn off. |
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| 22:16.37 | GenTooMan | so graphic install and text install does the same thing with a different image. I used this image http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-10.2.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 22:16.58 | somiaj | noahmg123: what cpu is in that laptop? |
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| 22:17.36 | bigterd | https://paste.debian.net/1121310/ |
| 22:17.50 | somiaj | GenTooMan: could still try to use nomodeset as a boot parameter, see if that lets you install with the text installer, from there get a newer kernel and firmware from backports to see if that works on your hardware |
| 22:18.12 | noahmg123 | somiaj: you mean like what processor does it have? It's an Intel Core i7-8565U |
| 22:18.25 | somiaj | noahmg123: and what gpu? |
| 22:18.30 | bigterd | https://paste.debian.net/1121310/ & https://paste.debian.net/1121311/ |
| 22:19.39 | noahmg123 | somiaj: two GPUs, actually. Intel UHD Graphics 620, and an Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050. |
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| 22:21.18 | somiaj | that could be an issue, linux (and debian in particular) has trouble working with optimus technology |
| 22:21.41 | somiaj | https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers/Optimus |
| 22:21.53 | somiaj | in short the easiest solution is to disable one of the gpus (if you can) in the firmware |
| 22:23.21 | noahmg123 | Gross |
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| 22:24.15 | somiaj | Anyways i've seen mixed sucess with getting debian to work with optimus gpus, read through that wiki, I have personally avoided such hardware. |
| 22:24.59 | towo` | even that intel gpu is needing non-free firmware for propper work |
| 22:26.35 | towo` | and kernel 4.19.x could be not the best choice for the cpu |
| 22:26.56 | noahmg123 | Will do. Another question. Are NVMe drives (with Linux installed) plug-and-boot, or is there more to do? I broke my old laptop's LCD screen, and it was falling apart anyway, so I bought my new laptop. But before the screen broke, I had upgraded to an NVMe drive. Could I just stick it in my new laptop and boot into Linux, or would there be more that needs to be done? |
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| 22:27.21 | noahmg123 | towo`: so what do you suggest for me any my situation (with the GPUs)? |
| 22:27.34 | GenTooMan | So the disk I have in the drive is 32bit debian perhaps I can update to debian 10.2 64bit without much durress. It works at the moment. |
| 22:27.42 | towo` | 1st, try a non-free image |
| 22:27.57 | noahmg123 | That's what I started with, actually |
| 22:27.57 | somiaj | GenTooMan: there really isn't a simple way to do an update inplace from 32bit to 64bit |
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| 22:28.15 | somiaj | GenTooMan: there are ways, but I woudln't suggest them. Use debootstrap from a live system that works would eb a more manual way to install debian |
| 22:28.19 | noahmg123 | (and by started with, I mean, that's the one I used) |
| 22:28.28 | towo` | noahmg123, try a linux with a more recent kernel |
| 22:28.32 | somiaj | GenTooMan: also what installer did you use to get the 32bit debian on that machine? |
| 22:29.08 | noahmg123 | towo`: where would I find that? |
| 22:29.36 | GenTooMan | Well I got the system to at least albeit very slowly AND the graphics work. |
| 22:29.46 | towo` | noahmg123, really? there are many distros, which have a recent kernel |
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| 22:30.26 | towo` | noahmg123, sest a actual ubuntu, if it is working then you know, you need a more modern kernel |
| 22:30.33 | towo` | s/sest/test |
| 22:30.33 | noahmg123 | I know, although a lot don't advertise, at least not clearly, what kernel they're using |
| 22:30.41 | GenTooMan | somiaj Actually I took an older laptops disk from it and stuffed it into this laptop to preserve the current disk. It just so happens to heave stretch 9.8 on it. |
| 22:30.49 | noahmg123 | towo`: this is the image I used https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ |
| 22:31.08 | somiaj | GenTooMan: you could do something similar, pull the disk, use another machine to install, then get a newer kenrel on it and move it to the laptop. |
| 22:31.22 | towo` | noahmg123, debian stable comes with kernel 4.19.x, which was released before your cpu was out |
| 22:31.34 | somiaj | GenTooMan: though if you can get a more modern live system to work, a manual install with debootstrap isn't to bad for one fmailr with linux and the cli |
| 22:31.52 | noahmg123 | towo`: Ok, what about Debian Testing? |
| 22:32.09 | noahmg123 | Or whichever one is one step down from testing? |
| 22:32.10 | somiaj | noahmg123: you can get a newer kernel in debian , 5.3 from buster-backports, but if you require a newer kernel it can be a pain to install for someone with out a decent amount of experience with linux. |
| 22:32.14 | towo` | noahmg123, would be worth a test, but i don't like testing |
| 22:32.26 | somiaj | noahmg123: usually we don't suggest testing, but use a backported kernel |
| 22:32.39 | somiaj | the install can be tricky if you can't get the installer to work like GenTooMan over there |
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| 22:33.08 | noahmg123 | somiaj: backported kernel? |
| 22:33.22 | somiaj | !backports |
| 22:33.22 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
| 22:33.40 | somiaj | debian provides some software backported to stable, the kernel is a big one, to allow more modern hardware on stable. |
| 22:33.47 | towo` | somiaj, but then he has a hen egg problem |
| 22:34.00 | somiaj | Yea, the install can be tricky |
| 22:34.06 | towo` | for using backports, he need to manage an install with the stable kernel |
| 22:34.19 | A|an | Refresh my memory: Will installing (configure, make, install) a tar.gz file cleanly over-write a pre-existing installation, or do you have to track down every pre-existing scrape and delete it by hand? |
| 22:34.25 | somiaj | and might require using a live system with a newer kernel and debootstrap (in general it is going to be difficult unless you know what you are doing) |
| 22:34.55 | somiaj | A|an: it really depends on the source |
| 22:35.06 | A|an | great |
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| 22:35.06 | towo` | noahmg123, you can try to boot your debian with some acpi bootcodes |
| 22:35.18 | joepublic | how could it not? |
| 22:35.24 | somiaj | A|an: from the previous source you could run 'make uninstall' first, because if files change it may leave artifacts around |
| 22:35.28 | noahmg123 | somiaj: could you link to a tutorial of some sort that could help me set that up? |
| 22:35.32 | somiaj | A|an: also tools like gnu stow can help with this too. |
| 22:35.35 | noahmg123 | towo`: hm? what do you mean? |
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| 22:35.40 | A|an | thanks |
| 22:35.49 | somiaj | noahmg123: don't know one off the top of my head, but just look up, 'debootstrap install debian' |
| 22:37.30 | somiaj | but debian is sometimes not the best distro choice for bleeding edge hardware |
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| 22:38.14 | towo` | somiaj, s/sometimes/often fixed that for you ;) |
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| 22:45.17 | ryos_ | debian is gud, ai laiket |
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| 22:48.54 | noahmg123 | somiaj: what distro would you suggest, then? |
| 22:50.27 | somiaj | I don't really know what disto runs well on new hardware, ubuntu comes to mind. You might be able to get debian to work, but it is going to require extra work which may not be in your tool kit |
| 22:51.12 | noahmg123 | I've been using Linux for years now (although I haven't had to deal with hardware issues really) |
| 22:51.42 | somiaj | anyways, you could try the debian installer, maybe it will work better than the live system. |
| 22:52.11 | somiaj | Just install a minimial system (no xorg or desktop). Maybe after that you can install the kernel and firmware from backports and be able to get things to work |
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| 22:52.19 | somiaj | next is figure out xorg and how to deal with your dual gpu setup. |
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| 22:53.07 | noahmg123 | Do I really need to strip it down that much? Debian live works well. It's just that on shutdown, I get that error |
| 22:53.35 | somiaj | maybe you don't then, maybe you just need install the firmware and kernel from backports |
| 22:53.42 | joepublic | iirc, debian live is cool-but-not-supported-nor-recommended and debian installer is all three? |
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| 22:53.43 | somiaj | I always start from a minimial system personally |
| 22:54.28 | noahmg123 | all three what? |
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| 22:54.41 | joepublic | cool, supported, and recommended |
| 22:55.08 | noahmg123 | Ah I see |
| 22:56.15 | noahmg123 | Also, I don't think my earlier question was answered. Can I put an NVMe drive (that has Linux on it) into my laptop and be good to boot? Or should I just pull do a fresh install of Linux onto it? |
| 22:57.00 | ksk | noahmg123: debian install asks about if it should put just specific drivers or more generic ones into your kernel (initrd to be precise ) |
| 22:57.01 | somiaj | for the most part (provided the kernel supports your hardware and you can point your firmware at the drive to boot) yes |
| 22:57.05 | ksk | if you choose the more genreic, it should work |
| 22:58.20 | noahmg123 | somiaj: It's from another computer with different hardware, so would there be drivers and such on there what would just be wasting space installed in the new machine? |
| 22:59.00 | joepublic | if you install a minimal system, add backports repository, and then install a newer kernel, you can run `tasksel` afterwards and select software to have in the full system |
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| 22:59.16 | somiaj | everything is contained in the kernel, so even if it uses different modules (Drivers) it will still work provided the hardware is supported by the kernel and as ksk pointed out, important modules are in the initrd image |
| 22:59.39 | somiaj | noahmg123: so again in many cases it should work, but there are some 'ifs' there that could make it not work |
| 22:59.43 | noahmg123 | I see |
| 23:00.03 | noahmg123 | So, it seems, the best way would be to build up from scratch |
| 23:00.10 | somiaj | or just put your drive in and try |
| 23:00.14 | joepublic | I would sure try the drive first |
| 23:00.19 | noahmg123 | Ok |
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| 23:00.28 | somiaj | I personally like to do fresh installs from minmial systems, but that is just me |
| 23:00.59 | noahmg123 | If it doesn't work with the hardware, it is possible to cause damage to the drive? Or not really? |
| 23:01.11 | somiaj | but you are also talknig to someoen who still runs fvwm, so take what I say with a grain of salt |
| 23:01.26 | somiaj | not really, if it doesn't boot, everything should be fine |
| 23:01.59 | joepublic | if it's not supported by the kernel, it just won't work. it won't eat itself. |
| 23:02.04 | GenTooMan | all that and the live DVD doesn't even boot geesh |
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| 23:02.10 | joepublic | * in 99% of cases |
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| 23:02.17 | noahmg123 | Ok. Because I actually already seem to have killed a bootable USB drive trying to get this to work (or at least as far was Windows is concerned) |
| 23:02.56 | ksk | noahmg123: I dont think that is possible. also, there is no "bootable usb drive" - its just an usb drive with the right amound and order of ones and zeros, that make your computer boot it ;) |
| 23:02.58 | joepublic | hmm i killed a bootable usb earlier today too. installing debian on an ancient dell with a core 2 duo. |
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| 23:03.29 | joepublic | maybe it's death-to-thumb-drive day |
| 23:03.48 | noahmg123 | ksk: Yeah, I know. I think it's just corrupted in a way only Linux can fix. |
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| 23:04.17 | somiaj | trying to boot should only read from the drive and you will be fine |
| 23:04.27 | somiaj | if you try to make the drive bootable by writing to it, that can mangle things |
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| 23:06.20 | joepublic | i have been known to dd if=/dev/good-working-usb-stick of=/dev/usb-mistake |
| 23:06.45 | ksk | you just do "cat debian.iso > /dev/your/drive" ;) |
| 23:06.53 | ksk | !usb install |
| 23:06.53 | dpkg | You can install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key on x86 systems, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03 and ask me about <install debian> for hybrid CD/DVD images. Use http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/ to write images from Windows. For BIOSes not capable of USB boot, ask me about <plop>. |
| 23:07.11 | joepublic | I mean to turn it back into a data storage medium as opposed to an installer, or a failed attempt at making an installer |
| 23:07.43 | somiaj | I once had my dogs tail knock a usb drive from the table (old spinning one about 15 years ago) and destroy the drive |
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| 23:07.52 | somiaj | those things dind't like to bounce as well as ssds do |
| 23:07.54 | joepublic | I think I have also tried if=/dev/zero and then partitioning the darned thing with gparted |
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| 23:08.34 | joepublic | sophistocated my efforts have not been, I admit |
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| 23:10.07 | joepublic | today I ended up dusting off and installing a cd-rom drive to get the install done :) |
| 23:10.14 | annadane | have you tried whacking it with a baseball bat? |
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| 23:10.32 | joepublic | I have tried whacking certainly, but not with a baseball bat. usually I use the handle of a screwdriver |
| 23:10.50 | annadane | i recommend sulphuric acid |
| 23:11.01 | joepublic | my son describes this process as exploiting the "biomatter-structural integrity interface" |
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| 23:14.39 | noahmg123 | Ok now it's is deciding not to even move the GRUB screen. I'm just starting at the background now after I hit enter. |
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| 23:15.31 | noahmg123 | move past* |
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| 23:17.40 | noahmg123 | Ok I think Secure Boot hates me |
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| 23:19.15 | EdePopede | was scrolling up right now. had (nearly) the same error in the past, then i switched from wheezy to stretch and it disappeared. it was regular overheating, had to use a table fan to cool the bastard a bit, even that didn't help everytime. and as i reported here, even updating bigger packages (java, office) was an issue, i think unpacking the .xz files from the .debs was too much for that poor old CPU |
| 23:19.27 | EdePopede | CPU: Topology Dual Core model AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ bits 64 type MCP L2 cache 2048 KiB |
| 23:19.27 | EdePopede | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:19.46 | EdePopede | only it was CPU#1 and 23s in my case (and the googles were full of it) |
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| 23:21.00 | EdePopede | had to REISUB even more often than youtube-dl releases updates. |
| 23:23.23 | noahmg123 | No it wasn't secure boot |
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| 23:26.58 | GenTooMan | somiaj the LIVE DVD didn't even boot. |
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| 23:27.55 | somiaj | GenTooMan: I missed the original issue, is your hardware very new? |
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| 23:30.10 | GenTooMan | somiaj the issue is / was that the installer would scramble the display when booted. The boot menu came up fine. HW is 2018 slightly older lenovo laptop AMD32000 and Radion Vega. |
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| 23:33.21 | GenTooMan | somiaj luck would have it the live DVD also has the installer in it and it works. |
| 23:34.12 | somiaj | you might still find a backported kernel and non-free firmware helpful for that machine |
| 23:35.25 | GenTooMan | somiaj very likely I just hope it supports enough to fully install. at the moment it's at network configuration .. so it it may "just work" |
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| 23:37.05 | somiaj | sometimes just doing a minimial install and then installing xorg/gnome/whatever after can help with that |
| 23:38.05 | bigterd | https://paste.debian.net/1121310/ & https://paste.debian.net/1121311/ any ideas? |
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| 23:38.56 | noahmg123 | Ok using bootable Debain USBs seems out of the question now. Although... am I maybe just using the wrong program? I'm using UNetbootin. Should I use Rufus instead? Or something else, even? |
| 23:39.13 | ksk | bigterd: eh, look at dmesg, start from the top, the first thing wrong is: "[Mon Dec 16 05:36:22 2019] sd 7:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device" |
| 23:39.20 | ksk | -> drive is ded. get new one |
| 23:39.43 | bigterd | hmm. it was working. |
| 23:39.52 | bigterd | what's all that sas stuff about? |
| 23:39.56 | ksk | okay its not the first error actually |
| 23:39.57 | bigterd | it's a super micro card |
| 23:40.08 | bigterd | and why did the 2nd drive drop out? |
| 23:40.31 | *** join/#debian diniwed (~gavron@ool-182c80a4.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:41.10 | bigterd | i'm kidna mad. i fucking pulled two drives out already. and oddly when the one started to chirp/beep it hung up the other 3 on the same sas-mini cable expander. so wtf? |
| 23:41.25 | ksk | bigterd: might also be your raid controller (if you have one) or the board |
| 23:41.31 | ksk | change components to check which it is. |
| 23:41.35 | bigterd | ksk: fuck man! it's the 3rd card! |
| 23:41.53 | ksk | bigterd: then its maybe not the cards, but the thing where you put them all in? |
| 23:42.15 | bigterd | it's the mini expander cable. just spits off into 4 standard sata plugs |
| 23:42.27 | bigterd | not hot swap stuff high dollar stuff. |
| 23:42.35 | bigterd | 8087? |
| 23:43.21 | bigterd | the last two cards kept getting 1 red LED and would hang up the bios boot. this card has been alright, but as ive been pushing it rebuilding/reshapingg, stuff is randomly dropping out. |
| 23:43.27 | bigterd | it's kinda bullshit now. |
| 23:44.42 | bigterd | i know if i reboot, i can almost gaurantee no smart errors, and the drives always come back. the amount of SAS errors in dmesg is kinda concerning to me, unless i'm misunderstanding them. |
| 23:44.57 | Sabine | bigterd, how about changing your nickname |
| 23:45.09 | bigterd | Sabine: why? doesn't it fit me? |
| 23:45.22 | *** join/#debian diniwed (~gavron@ool-182c80a4.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:45.37 | bigterd | bigterd: channel policy violation? |
| 23:46.05 | *** join/#debian n_1-c_k (~n_1-c_k@2a02:8010:63a6::70) |
| 23:46.09 | bigterd | can i have more then one registered nick per email? |
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| 23:55.20 | Miles8of9 | i just realized that gnome windows have NO minimize and maximize buttons.... omgwtf...!! WHY?? O_O |
| 23:56.34 | somiaj | unsure why gnome does it, but buttons are overrated, use keybindings |
| 23:56.38 | nyov | Miles8of9: it's modern gnome, what do you expect? :D |
| 23:57.26 | somiaj | I think the idea here is it is CSD, and the clients should provie the decor, problem is many clients think the window manager should provide the decor |
| 23:57.43 | somiaj | http://www.codemarvels.com/2017/09/gnome-bring-back-the-maximize-and-minimize-buttons/ -- I did find this |
| 23:58.00 | annadane | there's an extension for it |
| 23:58.01 | Miles8of9 | what if i have 10 windows open??? now pick the third from the bottom!!! |
| 23:58.03 | annadane | that brings it bac |
| 23:58.04 | annadane | k |
| 23:58.20 | annadane | gnome is keyboard focused so they apparently feel you don't need it |
| 23:58.56 | nyov | Where do you go to find solid linux-supported hardware (notebooks) these days, if you don't feel like going shopping with a live-cd or betatesting hardware? |
| 23:58.58 | Miles8of9 | ok thankyou... but there is also NO taskbar... minimize window to what?? how do i get it back? |
| 23:59.17 | annadane | (this is also why i feel gnome maybe shouldn't be the default, it's confusing to new linux users) |
