| 00:00.19 | Miles8of9 | i think i'll switch to mate or xfce |
| 00:00.46 | aaro | that's what we all do, for me xfce |
| 00:06.32 | Miles8of9 | nyov, a friend told me to buy lenovo for best linux compatibility... but i haven't tried yet |
| 00:08.24 | bigterd | is it safe to reboot a reshaping array with dropped devices? what if they come back athe reshape continues? |
| 00:09.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1437] by debhelper |
| 00:09.10 | nyov | Miles8of9: yeah, that's the one brand people kinda know about, IBM thinkpad legacy. kind of limiting, though |
| 00:09.39 | Sabine | Miles8of9, unity DE |
| 00:09.41 | bigterd | alot of chirps and clicks, and alot of this in dmesg [189687.774162] mvsas 0000:01:00.0: Phy0 : No sig fis |
| 00:09.50 | bigterd | [189694.532547] sas: sas_form_port: phy0 belongs to port4 already(1)! |
| 00:10.09 | Sabine | maybe getting ready for touch sceens |
| 00:10.18 | nyov | bigterd: tried a different expander cable? |
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| 00:13.28 | bigterd | nyov: well, should i let the reshape finished with 2 failed drives? i'ts in the process of mirgrating from raid5> raid6..... |
| 00:13.31 | bigterd | 38% done |
| 00:13.36 | bigterd | started...saturday |
| 00:13.38 | bigterd | ha |
| 00:13.44 | nyov | bigterd: no idea |
| 00:14.45 | bigterd | well fuck. now i'm commited. let this reshape finish. shut down, swap cables, and i have 2 new drives coming tomrrow. add them and cross fingers. should i add both at once? |
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| 00:17.30 | GenTooMan | somiaj well I lucked out it's installing after partitioning. |
| 00:17.55 | bigterd | nyov: any reputable mini sas manufactures? |
| 00:18.11 | bigterd | it looks like all drives puked and grumpyu are on that breakout |
| 00:19.22 | bigterd | sff 8087's |
| 00:19.37 | nyov | it's just a cable. I would just grab any two, to have a backup. |
| 00:20.14 | bigterd | poor HDD's. burn for 7 days. just to do it again, because of a cable. ugh. |
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| 00:26.31 | Miles8of9 | mmm how do i move gnome 3 "dash" from left to bottom..? |
| 00:27.08 | Miles8of9 | needs extension.... omg wtf |
| 00:27.44 | BazookaTooth | just switch to xfce already |
| 00:27.54 | bigterd | ^ |
| 00:28.01 | whislock | Or maybe he wants to use gnome3. |
| 00:28.11 | Miles8of9 | nah... |
| 00:28.20 | Miles8of9 | i was trying to understand |
| 00:28.35 | bigterd | say ok. walk away. |
| 00:28.40 | bigterd | zfce |
| 00:28.41 | bigterd | xfce |
| 00:29.03 | bigterd | simple is good. |
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| 00:30.07 | annadane | Miles8of9, i don't know gnome very well at all but doesn't the dash to dock extension do that? |
| 00:30.56 | Miles8of9 | mmm... in good old times you left X, edited a file and relaunched startx.... |
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| 00:31.31 | annadane | i'm actually kinda considering giving cinnamon a whirl again |
| 00:31.36 | Miles8of9 | now.... |
| 00:31.49 | yey | Halo |
| 00:32.14 | whislock | annadane: That's the one I prefer. |
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| 00:33.03 | annadane | i traditionally have used xfce, currently on mate (no real preference, i think i like xfce more just because launching terminal applications isn't working in mate) |
| 00:36.55 | BazookaTooth | annadane: alacarte lets you edit the menu entries and tick a box for "run in terminal" |
| 00:37.42 | annadane | oh neat |
| 00:37.43 | BazookaTooth | and cinnamon is basically a more polished version of mate, which also has that option for menu entries by default |
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| 00:42.24 | fuxxy | chromium interface is super, super slow since I switched to fluxbox. Should I be looking at DRI/DRM or something else? |
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| 00:45.04 | annadane | i misread chromium as cinnamon and got super confused |
| 00:45.08 | annadane | i'm very tired |
| 00:46.06 | GenTooMan | I've never thought well when exhausted. In fact I make a lot of horrible mistakes like installing GenToo... |
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| 00:48.06 | fuxxy | GenTooMan, I, too, used to be a sadist. |
| 00:48.27 | livebrain | used gentoo also |
| 00:48.37 | livebrain | it took 2 days of compiling to get it to run |
| 00:48.38 | livebrain | lol |
| 00:48.55 | livebrain | we all had our mistakes ;P |
| 00:51.36 | GenTooMan | mine worked but always had this weird error. the version of grub2 had "issues" with nvidia drivers which eventually killed my gentoo install. After a year of "WTH" I just said "wait I can run debian" poof things suddenly worked. |
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| 00:57.44 | nyov | back in the day, at my school someone got permission to setup gentoo on a school computer. It had been running 3 days compiling when my class had the room and a classmate needed a powercord for some reason, so he went and pulled it from that gentoo machine. |
| 00:57.59 | nyov | The teacher was like, oh, uuuhm, weeeeell, he's gonna be pissed, but ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 00:58.29 | nyov | Would have loved to be around when the guy came in to check on it. Hahaha. |
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| 00:59.39 | Miles8of9 | i installed debian buster today... solved every problem except battery that is marked as 0% and not charging... (i suppose it's fully charged) |
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| 01:00.12 | Miles8of9 | but if i unplug AC cable the system goes to sleep |
| 01:00.56 | ahi2 | probably because the battery is dead |
| 01:01.11 | Miles8of9 | yesterday it was alive and healthy |
| 01:01.14 | nyov | probably whatever system service deciding the battery is empty and it needs to go hibernate ASAP |
| 01:01.37 | yey | hey |
| 01:02.02 | GenTooMan | I believe nyov is right, remember they know everything, even if what they know is wrong. :D |
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| 01:02.56 | Miles8of9 | battery has a couple of weeks, it's new... i don't think debian installation killed it! |
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| 01:05.19 | iofq | exit |
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| 01:07.07 | nyov | Miles8of9: I'm not up to date on the tech, but I'd guess there's some missing firmware or driver to read out the battery info |
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| 01:08.44 | Miles8of9 | battery is detected... so the module must be there... but charge is 0% and it's not charging it |
| 01:09.31 | annadane | i feel like basically the default linux experience ought to be debian |
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| 01:09.36 | annadane | and everything else for niche cases |
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| 01:11.17 | livebrain | well... |
| 01:11.30 | livebrain | not trying to bash on debian or start a distro war |
| 01:11.40 | livebrain | but slackware is really nice |
| 01:11.51 | whislock | Then go join #slackware. |
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| 01:12.09 | dvs | !start a distro war |
| 01:12.09 | dpkg | Ubuntu is an ancient African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'. |
| 01:12.13 | livebrain | i hurted your feelings ? |
| 01:12.14 | livebrain | lol |
| 01:12.28 | livebrain | so if i use one distro i cannot use another |
| 01:12.33 | livebrain | got it |
| 01:12.34 | livebrain | lol |
| 01:12.59 | annadane | slackware is fine i'm sure but it's a veeeery different paradigm |
| 01:13.11 | whislock | livebrain: hurt* |
| 01:13.22 | Miles8of9 | slackware has no apt.... sorry, i won't consider it.. :D |
| 01:13.36 | livebrain | whislock: i love you |
| 01:13.53 | whislock | livebrain: And I don't care what distro you use. :P But this IS #debian, and Slackware isn't really the topic. |
| 01:13.54 | dvs | awwwwwww |
| 01:14.09 | annadane | i mean i literally started this conversation |
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| 01:14.15 | annadane | if you want to yell at anyone yell at me |
| 01:14.19 | livebrain | whislock: what is your problem ? |
| 01:14.27 | livebrain | not enough attention from mommy ? |
| 01:14.34 | annadane | mentioning slackware is nice isn't a crime |
| 01:15.10 | Miles8of9 | we have the power of Apt..!! Slackware guys don't..! :D |
| 01:15.39 | whislock | livebrain: I'm observing a pattern, here. Someone says something you don't like, you resort to personal insults, no doubt as an attempt to divert attention from your lack of any reasonable response. |
| 01:15.55 | livebrain | oh i have a fan |
| 01:16.03 | livebrain | now you see patterns in me |
| 01:16.15 | livebrain | is not someone |
| 01:16.18 | whislock | Patterns ARE based on observation. ;) |
| 01:16.23 | annadane | i have no idea how to really use slackware, i never learned how to properly, so to me it's a giant mess, i'm sure once you're versed in it it has advantages |
| 01:16.23 | nyov | slackware was incidentially my very first linux. found a CD. it booted, but I couldn't do anything with it. that's it for my slackware experience |
| 01:16.30 | whislock | livebrain: So... Act better, or you fit the pattern. |
| 01:16.45 | livebrain | whislock: you sound like a kid |
| 01:17.19 | livebrain | because if you like linux you should widen your horizonts |
| 01:17.23 | livebrain | its ok if you love debian |
| 01:17.29 | fuxxy | and there's the aforementioned personal attack |
| 01:17.33 | livebrain | but there are other distros out there |
| 01:17.37 | fuxxy | I think whislock has a point. |
| 01:17.45 | Miles8of9 | my first book about linux was about slackware and had a cd with version 1.3... (or perhaps that was kernel version i don't remember) |
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| 01:17.59 | livebrain | fuxxy: he was the only one with a problem |
| 01:18.06 | annadane | i think you're both wrong, livebrain for personal insults and whislock saying to go elsewhere; livebrain was responding to my comment specifically and it's totally fair |
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| 01:18.26 | annadane | with that being said #debian-offtopic is a great place for all this |
| 01:18.39 | whislock | !give annadane offtopic |
| 01:18.39 | dpkg | gives annadane offtopic |
| 01:18.45 | whislock | That is not how that works. |
| 01:18.46 | livebrain | i only said "slackware is nice" nothing more |
| 01:18.47 | whislock | !offtopic |
| 01:18.48 | dpkg | #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. |
| 01:18.53 | whislock | annadane: ^ |
| 01:19.05 | whislock | So, let's get back to Debian stuff. |
| 01:19.15 | annadane | i know, but the fact is, livebrain't statement about slackware was in reply to my comment about "debian being the default experience" |
| 01:19.19 | annadane | he's not to be blmed |
| 01:19.24 | nyov | dpkg, install debian |
| 01:19.24 | dpkg | There are a myriad of different ways to install Debian. See http://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/debian-installer for a list of images and ask me about <netinst>, <various cd1> and <firmware images>. See also <install guide> and <d-i> for detailed instructions. (If you've never installed Debian before, you should read the install guide.) |
| 01:19.24 | annadane | brain's* |
| 01:19.31 | annadane | blamed* |
| 01:19.41 | livebrain | well i believe if you want to know the strengs of debian, using others distros teaches you that |
| 01:19.47 | livebrain | if you only used debian |
| 01:19.49 | Miles8of9 | btw..... last slackware version release june 30 2016.... looks quite dead |
| 01:19.51 | livebrain | apt is just another tool |
| 01:20.00 | annadane | don't yell at someone for replying to a comment about distros generally |
| 01:20.00 | livebrain | if you used slackware apt is "the tool" |
| 01:20.15 | livebrain | apt takes a new meaning |
| 01:20.29 | whislock | annadane: I'm not here on a fault-finding mission. The whole conversation belongs in #debian-offtopic, you AND livebrain. Stop dragging this out. |
| 01:20.39 | annadane | okay, but stop being so aggressive |
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| 01:22.12 | livebrain | the reason i started using debian it was because it was really fast to deploy and ready to go |
| 01:22.19 | livebrain | vs others distros |
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| 01:22.54 | livebrain | and documentation |
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| 01:25.54 | Guest54864 | how does everyone feel about mint beta |
| 01:27.19 | *** join/#debian Guest54864 (~c@98.11.230.59) |
| 01:27.54 | Guest54864 | how does everyone feel about mint beta |
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| 01:45.53 | Guest75846 | Hello |
| 01:47.33 | annadane | "mint beta" is not debian |
| 01:47.39 | annadane | !mint |
| 01:47.39 | dpkg | Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at http://forums.linuxmint.com/ or join #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org for support. Linux Mint is variously based on <Ubuntu> with a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) also available. See also <based on debian>, <mintppc>. |
| 01:47.49 | annadane | i assume mint beta is related to mint |
| 01:47.53 | annadane | so go ask them about it |
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| 01:48.52 | joepublic | mint is less debian-y than ubuntu, in that they have their own apt command |
| 01:50.55 | annadane | !based on debian |
| 01:50.55 | dpkg | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
| 01:51.01 | annadane | Guest75846, ^ |
| 01:51.16 | *** join/#debian noobB00stin (~OS-64664@ip68-227-2-72.lv.lv.cox.net) |
| 01:53.51 | joepublic | the first article at that url says "This place hasnât seen any activity in over six years" - posted in 2014. |
| 01:54.27 | joepublic | I mean, this past april. |
| 01:54.38 | *** join/#debian forbid (~daniel@unaffiliated/forbid) |
| 01:54.38 | Guest75846 | oh these people ill boot kali my flash drives next to me this is my day to day distro kick me if u want here for a friend |
| 01:55.09 | joepublic | I know someone who ran knoppix day to day for years convinced he was running debian. |
| 01:55.27 | forbid | i love me some debian |
| 01:55.43 | joepublic | frankly me too. |
| 01:56.13 | MrAnonymity | debian for life :) |
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| 01:57.04 | Guest75846 | i like kali and mint |
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| 01:57.24 | Guest75846 | any gnome distro really |
| 01:57.39 | joepublic | I like kali in the way I like cable test devices and laser distance measurers. good tools make a good toolbox. |
| 01:58.01 | joepublic | oh! my strip-n-crimp tool. couldn't do without it. |
| 01:58.09 | Guest75846 | like MAC tools vs husky lol |
| 01:58.27 | Guest75846 | 32bit kali is life |
| 01:58.28 | annadane | !kali overnight |
| 01:58.32 | annadane | !kali-overnight |
| 01:58.32 | dpkg | Installing Parrot or Kali on your computer will not make you into a security expert overnight. If you really want to have those skills, install a general purpose linux distro like Debian (www.debian.org), learn at least one programming language, and learn about networking. Eventually you may have the skills that make a pentesting distro a useful tool. |
| 01:58.50 | Guest75846 | i like istraight deb to |
| 01:58.55 | annadane | !why not pentesting |
| 01:58.58 | joepublic | so a programming language. php? bash? |
| 01:58.59 | annadane | sigh |
| 01:59.03 | Guest75846 | python |
| 01:59.05 | annadane | !whynotpentesting |
| 01:59.05 | dpkg | For some reasons why Kali/Parrot/Other based-on-Debian penetration testing distributions shouldn't be used as a home desktop, see https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/399626/why-is-kali-linux-so-hard-to-set-up-why-wont-people-help-me |
| 01:59.29 | forbid | kali isnt even hard to set up lol |
| 01:59.30 | Guest75846 | anyine know cyberarms |
| 01:59.34 | joepublic | freebasic is pretty nice. |
| 01:59.36 | forbid | i guess it is if it's your first distro |
| 01:59.43 | annadane | debian is not for "cyberarms" |
| 01:59.53 | annadane | #debian, i mean |
| 02:00.07 | Guest75846 | i dont mean to be rude but he writes the books i read |
| 02:00.12 | MrAnonymity | lul |
| 02:00.32 | joepublic | debian is a powerful weapon at the base of many distros of mass pentesting. |
| 02:00.34 | Guest75846 | @cyberarms IG twitter he was in the service |
| 02:00.40 | annadane | close to no one who "uses kali" and shows up to #debian actually uses kali properly for its intended purpose (and even if they are, probably shouldn't) |
| 02:01.02 | Guest75846 | can u be my target LOL |
| 02:01.11 | MrAnonymity | omg |
| 02:01.22 | annadane | i don't know whether parrot is *as* dangerous as kali to use for a desktop, but still |
| 02:01.28 | Guest75846 | dont come at ppl u dont kno sideways |
| 02:01.33 | annadane | stop using it as your daily computer |
| 02:01.37 | MrAnonymity | jeez |
| 02:01.39 | Rodon | PulseAudio supports per-application volume control ..but how to enable it on buster ? please link the doc |
| 02:01.48 | annadane | Rodon, pavucontrol |
| 02:01.52 | joepublic | Guest75846, welcome to #debian! comin atcha. |
| 02:02.01 | Guest75846 | olla |
| 02:02.02 | annadane | the pavucontrol package |
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| 02:02.37 | Rodon | ok i check it |
| 02:02.56 | MrAnonymity | This Guest dude is nothing but lulz |
| 02:03.10 | Guest75846 | plus i can install pentest tools right now ? |
| 02:03.29 | joepublic | vows not to feed any more trolls, again |
| 02:04.10 | annadane | this is even *less* useful than the slackware discussion |
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| 02:04.42 | Guest75846 | dont make it cancer and speak logic |
| 02:04.54 | Rodon | annadane: pavucont... already installed . ! |
| 02:04.55 | joepublic | I work at an isp where all the servers were slackware. There was only one guy who could untangle the configs and he got fired for stealing. Hilarity ensued. |
| 02:05.08 | annadane | Rodon, okay, then run it from the terminal or your desktop's application launcher thing |
| 02:05.18 | joepublic | s/work/worked\ many\ years\ ago/g |
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| 02:29.40 | nyov | slackware servers... oooh the pain. |
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| 02:40.29 | joepublic | this was in the late 90s, when "don't update software that is working" was considered better advice than "stay on top of your updates" |
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| 02:45.54 | Rodon | annadane: i checked all . i dont see any specific on volume to enable per application .. https://paste.debian.net/1121334/ |
| 02:46.43 | annadane | Rodon, yeah, it's flat-volumes = no, take off the ; |
| 02:47.49 | annadane | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio see flat-volumes under 'daemon.conf' |
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| 02:48.05 | annadane | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio#daemon.conf |
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| 02:48.55 | Rodon | annadane: thanks.. good doc ! |
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| 02:50.44 | annadane | Rodon, and then after making the chances, restart the daemon |
| 02:50.50 | annadane | pulseaudio -k and pulseaudio --start |
| 02:50.58 | annadane | s/chances/changes |
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| 03:09.01 | A|an | To cut to the chase and simply ask: Can git be used to manage installed package versions on a local (user) machine? |
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| 03:10.46 | rjsalts | A|an: What do you mean? |
| 03:13.06 | A|an | It's not meant for what I was hoping...I'm getting ready to remove a package that I installed from a tar.gz file...and I'm wanting to make sure it's removed completely...for future reference I want to be straight on the tools needed to do that |
| 03:13.51 | A|an | somaiaj recommended make uninstall and stow...and I was wondering what other tools, if any, would be helpful |
| 03:14.16 | A|an | Git doesn't do and isn't intended for what I want to do, I just found |
| 03:14.35 | A|an | sooo...nevermind |
| 03:14.39 | nyov | A|an: to do that, you have to remember at install-time which files are placed where. |
| 03:15.09 | rjsalts | checkinstall might help |
| 03:15.26 | A|an | I have the original source in /opt and, looking through Make, it has uninstall listed |
| 03:15.27 | nyov | was just about to mention that |
| 03:15.33 | A|an | oh, yeah |
| 03:15.40 | A|an | checkinstall, yes |
| 03:15.42 | nyov | A|an: ok, then uninstall should be enough |
| 03:15.59 | A|an | (I do this so infrequently I don't remember the tools of the trade) |
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| 03:16.27 | A|an | I just want every little scrap of the former version gone |
| 03:16.27 | nyov | or you could even build a custom deb package, then dpkg cares about removal |
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| 03:17.20 | A|an | yes, eons back, I think it was somaiaj even, someone described that process to me |
| 03:17.29 | A|an | make a custom deb file |
| 03:17.40 | A|an | I forget what backed me off that concept |
| 03:17.44 | warsoul | dont remember a user passwd is anyway possible to force to change passwd? |
| 03:17.47 | warsoul | as root |
| 03:18.06 | joepublic | you could passwd username |
| 03:18.09 | nyov | warsoul: passwd <username> |
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| 03:19.28 | warsoul | ok thanks |
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| 03:41.56 | wikan | hi. have anybody tried to configure nftables? |
| 03:42.11 | wikan | i am trying to find someone who would explain some things to me |
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| 03:43.49 | rjsalts | wikan: what're you struggling with? |
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| 03:44.01 | wikan | few things |
| 03:44.24 | wikan | rjsalts, for first I don't get what is difference between "meta iifname" and "iifname" :| |
| 03:45.55 | wikan | i am reading about "meta" but it is exactly the same as "without meta" |
| 03:47.59 | wikan | documentation sucks or sills required to understand are too high |
| 03:49.24 | wikan | the same as bind lol - damn it is impossible to configure named as I want - using documentation or impossible at all :D |
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| 03:52.56 | rjsalts | nft(8) says with meta keyword is a qualified meta expression and without is unqualified, but doesn't explain the difference between them |
| 03:53.10 | wikan | exactly :D |
| 03:53.34 | joepublic | maybe meta is an in joke standing for "Messing with Engineers Trying Anything" |
| 03:53.59 | sponix | umm.. I thought the whole point was to be "easier" than iptables -- wasn't it ? |
| 03:54.17 | sponix | or was that part a joke also ? |
| 03:54.38 | wikan | maybe "meta" is a module |
| 03:54.49 | wikan | default module |
| 03:55.10 | sponix | lol.. is ufw an option ? |
| 03:55.10 | rjsalts | it's a filter type |
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| 03:56.31 | wikan | filter type as module |
| 03:56.36 | wikan | the same as iptables has |
| 03:56.58 | wikan | you need special module to filter users in iptables |
| 03:57.04 | wikan | maybe it is the same thing |
| 03:57.15 | wikan | but set as default |
| 03:58.00 | wikan | but no matter what it is - meta or no meta doesn't work :| |
| 03:58.03 | rjsalts | no, as in they're filters about metadata, not about the fib or payload, etc |
| 03:58.46 | rjsalts | https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Why_nftables%3F |
| 03:59.32 | joepublic | I don't think something as complex as a firewalling ninja process can or should be "easier" than pretty much anything |
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| 04:01.56 | plok | hello, does anyone know a good channel to ask about linux networking (network namespaces) |
| 04:02.30 | rjsalts | wikan: I think it might just be a shortcut |
| 04:02.35 | annadane | here or ##networkin |
| 04:02.36 | annadane | g |
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| 04:02.46 | rjsalts | wikan: https://lwn.net/Articles/594698/ |
| 04:02.56 | annadane | death to the early enter key |
| 04:03.48 | wikan | rjsalts thanks, going to read it ;) |
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| 04:03.57 | plok | thx |
| 04:04.14 | annadane | (well, here if it's debian) |
| 04:04.26 | rjsalts | wikan: it's just the nft release notes from version 0.2 and it says "A number of keys of the meta expressions can be used without the meta keyword for simplicity" |
| 04:05.09 | rjsalts | wikan: i.e. there is no difference, but if your scripts had the explicit meta ... they'll still work |
| 04:05.12 | wikan | rjsalts yeap "meta: don't require "meta" keyword for a subset of meta expressions" |
| 04:05.30 | wikan | what there is no any info in docs |
| 04:05.37 | wikan | why ^ |
| 04:06.51 | rjsalts | because the meta was superfluous as the intent to use the keyword as a meta filter was unambiguous in these cases? |
| 04:07.37 | wikan | ok, but it is important to explain "hey! you dont need meta keyword" |
| 04:08.00 | wikan | it is the same as "IN" in named.conf - they wrote it (you don't have to use IN class - it is default) |
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| 04:08.48 | rjsalts | you mean for a zone file, not named.conf |
| 04:09.32 | wikan | right, right |
| 04:10.31 | wikan | but difference between "forward only | first" is not clear to me anyway |
| 04:10.32 | rjsalts | better default than CH |
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| 04:11.03 | rjsalts | wikan: forward only will not consult the normal lookup mechanism if the forwarder doesn't reply |
| 04:11.31 | wikan | abyway - rjsalts maybe you would help me with named |
| 04:11.57 | wikan | it is possible to disable forwarders globally and "type forward" only for one zone? |
| 04:12.11 | wikan | i always learn hard way :D |
| 04:12.26 | rjsalts | wikan: you don't need to forward globally, you can have it only for specific zones |
| 04:12.38 | wikan | not working |
| 04:12.47 | wikan | i can't do it |
| 04:13.10 | wikan | i wanna only debian.org to be resolvable |
| 04:13.11 | rjsalts | wikan: I'm on #bind too, I'll answer there |
| 04:13.41 | rjsalts | oh, you left #bind |
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| 04:14.12 | rjsalts | as in you don't want to be able to resolve anything but a whitelist of domains? |
| 04:14.13 | wikan | rjsalts yeap I triend there |
| 04:14.27 | wikan | exactly |
| 04:15.18 | wikan | i tried this way - no forwarders in options/fake ips for forwarders in options, forwarders for zone debian.org |
| 04:15.40 | rjsalts | wikan: get rid of the zone "." { type hint; ...}; |
| 04:15.43 | wikan | binary result - all workds, nothinkg works |
| 04:16.06 | wikan | yea, I tried to find something about it |
| 04:16.19 | wikan | "named dot zone" is hard to find in google :D |
| 04:16.32 | wikan | I was fighting for 20 minutes |
| 04:16.37 | wikan | and I gave up |
| 04:16.56 | rjsalts | forwarding isn't required, it's a niche use case for caches behind restrictive firewalls |
| 04:17.02 | wikan | is the "." zone has any name? |
| 04:17.14 | rjsalts | wikan: the . is the root zone |
| 04:17.20 | wikan | oooo |
| 04:17.46 | rjsalts | wikan: as in the silent . at the end of com. |
| 04:17.50 | rjsalts | wikan: etc |
| 04:19.00 | wikan | I know why dot is required after domain but I didn't know what the hell is "." zone |
| 04:19.30 | rjsalts | where each subsequent . is a separator in the domain name hierarchy and may be a point of delegation |
| 04:20.11 | wikan | yhym |
| 04:20.20 | wikan | +10 to exp :D |
| 04:20.37 | wikan | but 10029 required to next level :P |
| 04:20.53 | rjsalts | but it gets bootstrapped from the root nameservers which, if you do dig . NS you will see correspond to the ones in your root hints more or less |
| 04:20.54 | wikan | i am newbie :D |
| 04:22.11 | wikan | and "." requires recursion, right? |
| 04:22.33 | nvz | does anyone by chance know how to add something to the session menu in lightdm? I know I can use Default in the DMs and set things in .Xsession, but I'd like to make a custom entry with a custom name |
| 04:22.39 | rjsalts | wikan: descending down from the root to find a target domain requires recursion |
| 04:23.33 | wikan | rjsalts can you explain it like mysql does with "explain keyword" what is happen when I type "dig debian.org" ? |
| 04:23.55 | wikan | .org, ".", "debian.org"? |
| 04:24.11 | wikan | ".org" -> "." -> "debian.org" |
| 04:24.14 | wikan | ? |
| 04:24.20 | rjsalts | dig +trace debian.org |
| 04:24.28 | rjsalts | more or less |
| 04:25.05 | rjsalts | only with more caching, hopefully |
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| 04:25.34 | wikan | rjsalts ohhh |
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| 04:27.01 | wikan | now I don't get it - it is impossible to block everything but not debian.org |
| 04:27.19 | wikan | always .org must be resolved |
| 04:27.38 | rjsalts | wikan: I think you might want rpz |
| 04:28.17 | wikan | rjsalts I am learning by building fortress |
| 04:31.45 | rjsalts | wikan: https://kb.isc.org/docs/aa-01309 |
| 04:33.05 | wikan | rjsalts: reading ;) about rpz too ;) |
| 04:33.38 | rjsalts | wikan: so maybe zone "." { type hint; file "/path/to/empty/file"; }; and then a zone "debian.org" { type forward|stub; ... }; |
| 04:33.47 | wikan | rjsalts, thank you your hits are very helpful |
| 04:35.26 | wikan | rjsalts, hmmm idea is nice, but I have to learn how exactly it works. You know - like a program (what named is doing step by step). Copying and pasting is not a solution ;) But I copied your idea and will try to understand "why". |
| 04:36.34 | wikan | so, time to read your links and that what I found ;) |
| 04:37.40 | wikan | the hardest thing is still output firewall - policy drop is tricky as hell and requires to strace a lot apps. |
| 04:41.05 | wikan | nvz, do you need help still? |
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| 04:52.03 | wikan | my brain... |
| 04:52.11 | wikan | ...so much of information |
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| 05:04.01 | nvz | <PROTECTED> |
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| 05:09.56 | nvz | looks like it just uses a .desktop file in /usr/share/xsessions/ which seems simple enough |
| 05:10.56 | wikan | nvz, exactly |
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| 05:12.10 | wikan | you can always check installed files too |
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| 05:12.35 | nvz | I was just thinking of adding one for retroarch like kodi does.. |
| 05:12.37 | wikan | desktop environments installs .desktop files, so those files are on the list |
| 05:13.44 | nvz | if/when I get around to it.. is a different kinda issue |
| 05:14.37 | wikan | what issue? |
| 05:16.15 | nvz | I gotta procrastinate now, or I'll never get around to it |
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| 05:20.37 | wikan | maybe use desktop swicher after login? |
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| 05:21.30 | nvz | na, you can already run kodi or retroarch from within the DE but kodi installs a session file, I was just gonna do the same for retroarch.. would allow you to login directly to retroarch without the overhead of the DE |
| 05:22.26 | nvz | in case thats what you typically do anyhow, and wanna just use a wireless controller the whole way.. simplifies things |
| 05:22.32 | wikan | but you can login to raw X session, autolaunch suckless web browser with desktop switcher - "MOVIES", "GAMES", "LOGOUT" and then exit to reload app as de |
| 05:22.56 | nvz | ,i choosewm |
| 05:22.58 | judd | Package choosewm (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: fake x-session-manager allowing the user to choose a wm. Version: 0.1.6-3+b2; Size: 17.5k; Installed: 66k; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/choosewm |
| 05:23.15 | nvz | ,i nodm |
| 05:23.17 | judd | Package nodm (misc, optional) in buster/amd64: automatic display manager. Version: 0.13-5; Size: 48.4k; Installed: 130k; Homepage: https://github.com/spanezz/nodm/ |
| 05:23.28 | nvz | there are plenty of things like that already in debian :D |
| 05:24.35 | wikan | but i mean pretty :) |
| 05:24.57 | wikan | good css looks great on TV |
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| 05:26.12 | wikan | while work; do browser; launch_or_exit; done; |
| 05:27.18 | wikan | or just i3 without binding 99% of keys and opening kodi and retro on fullscreen :D |
| 05:27.44 | wikan | i have to fap to this idea :] |
| 05:28.16 | nvz | whatever tickles your pickle |
| 05:28.29 | wikan | relogging is not funny |
| 05:29.03 | wikan | works easy but after 10th time you have enouth |
| 05:29.15 | dtux | lmk if there's a better place to ask this: i want to set up duplicity backups to an offsite service (preferably via SSH)... i could go check out generic VPSs (tho i really just need storage). is that the best route? open to suggestions |
| 05:30.14 | wikan | dtux, what kind of backups? |
| 05:31.05 | wikan | dtux, why not rsync? |
| 05:31.11 | dtux | wikan: encrypted duplicity backups of personal documents (receipts, statements, records, etc) |
| 05:31.50 | wikan | dtux, definitely rsync |
| 05:31.57 | wikan | rsync via ssh |
| 05:32.09 | dtux | wikan: even if i was using rsync... same question? |
| 05:32.36 | dtux | duplicity uses librsync... |
| 05:33.10 | wikan | i have read duplicated :D |
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| 05:35.14 | dtux | doesn't follow |
| 05:38.28 | jm_ | I also read that as a typo |
| 05:39.35 | jm_ | in general, sure, sounds fine - any backup tool can be used with rsync or anything really to store offline |
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| 05:39.48 | jm_ | or elsewhere rather |
| 05:40.57 | dtux | oh, haha ya, duplicity is a tool: http://duplicity.nongnu.org |
| 05:41.31 | jm_ | yeah realized it after your "duplicity uses librsync..." line |
| 05:41.56 | wikan | the same here |
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| 05:44.49 | dtux | do people just use aws or digital ocean for this kind of thing usually? |
| 05:46.53 | BazookaTooth | dtux: any vps you want really. too bad you didn't ask this around black friday when all the sales pop off. christmas in july/amazon day will be the next big one |
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| 05:47.43 | dtux | gah! i see... gtk, thanks |
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| 06:34.58 | nyov | why'd you want to rent a vps for offsite backups of personal documents |
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| 06:36.35 | nyov | all you need is a ton of kitten images. then every time you need to backup a file, encrypt and steno it into a kitten, and share it on an image host. et voila free backup |
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| 06:37.28 | nyov | uh did I just say this publically? argh. |
| 06:38.00 | nyov | I meant, put them in a git repo and push them for 7bucks a month to github. free replication included |
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| 06:49.32 | zerocool | so, i didn't realize my three dell t410's wouldn't boot from nvme |
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| 06:50.09 | zerocool | they have internal usb, can i just boot to usb but mount the nvme at / |
| 06:50.17 | zerocool | 99.999% yes |
| 06:50.57 | jm_ | should work |
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| 06:51.11 | zerocool | is that something i can do... with the installer? |
| 06:51.14 | zerocool | debian installer |
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| 06:51.48 | jm_ | not 100% on that, but a) I think you will need separate /boot (on USB), and b) tell it to install GRUB on USB |
| 06:55.10 | zerocool | lets see :) |
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| 06:58.21 | ZaZaGX | hi |
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| 06:59.53 | ZaZaGX | yue-lan is chinese |
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| 07:08.46 | nvz | hmm.. I suspect the sftp method in buster's kodi is fubar |
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| 07:10.35 | nvz | the log shows it connecting to sftp://USERNAME@foobar.com/ |
| 07:10.48 | nvz | where USERNAME is literal.. not the actual username I supplied |
| 07:11.10 | nvz | which of course won't work cause there is no user called USERNAME on the server :P |
| 07:11.59 | ZaZaGX | a chinese dark army hacker is on this channel |
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| 07:13.32 | nvz | doubt it.. if you found em, they aren't very covert.. |
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| 07:14.09 | BazookaTooth | can i get just 3 hours away from that goddamn tv show without a reference.. |
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| 07:15.32 | nvz | hmm its writing the right thing to the xml file, just not the log.. so idk.. |
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| 07:15.54 | ZaZaGX | what tv show? |
| 07:16.14 | BazookaTooth | mr soapdish |
| 07:17.01 | ZaZaGX | never heard of it |
| 07:17.27 | nvz | well sheet.. I dont really /need/ this to work.. but I wanted to take some screenshots of kodi with content, and my content is only accessible over sftp |
| 07:17.49 | nvz | copying the line out of kodi's xml file and pasting it into caja connects and shows the files so hell if I know |
| 07:17.53 | BazookaTooth | kinda funny how you hear less reference to mr robot in hacking channels than other random channels |
| 07:18.19 | BazookaTooth | but not really |
| 07:18.21 | nvz | going upstream is probably pointless they'll just grouch about debian's package I'm sure :P |
| 07:18.45 | SwK | It is the way |
| 07:19.55 | somiaj | nvz: does debian come with the sftp addon or do you have to get it from usptream? |
| 07:20.41 | nvz | idk it has sftp in the thing.. just not working with my setup here.. |
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| 07:21.13 | somiaj | strange, I don't use kodi so can't do tests, but maybe file a bug with debian and they'll send it upstream |
| 07:21.16 | nvz | I'm using a subdomain pointing to my servers ip, and a keyfile in ~/.ssh its a fresh buster install of kodi |
| 07:21.34 | nvz | idk that it actually /is/ a bug or not :P |
| 07:22.09 | nvz | I could temporarily enable password logins for debugging, but I don't really want to :P |
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| 07:22.39 | nvz | I'm more inclined to just load a small amount of content off my removable HDD |
| 07:23.26 | nvz | if I actually needed this to work for more than some screenshots, I'd dig more.. but I'm not gonna fubar my whole setup at 2am just for this.. heh |
| 07:23.52 | nvz | I can just open my files in caja and play them in vlc or such if I wanted to play them |
| 07:24.32 | nvz | I dont offhand know of a way to mount sftp that anything on the system would see it.. |
| 07:25.30 | Kyros | You can use sshfs |
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| 07:26.35 | nvz | heard of that, never tried it.. gonna give that a go |
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| 07:29.33 | nvz | Kyros: ty, that works.. and I learned to use that tool finally :P rather breezy |
| 07:29.45 | Kyros | welcome =) |
| 07:30.26 | nvz | it handled all the dirty work, respected my keys, and kodi is none the wiser :P |
| 07:31.09 | nvz | now I just gotta wait for it to scan in all my stuff so I can get better screenshots than kodi with no content :P |
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| 08:18.08 | zerocool | damn the nvme still doesn't detect from grub |
| 08:18.37 | zerocool | i get grub prompt and look around, not there, latest uefi and everything |
| 08:18.38 | jm_ | it's unlikely to work in grub if you can't boot from it |
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| 08:37.23 | BazookaTooth | nvz: sftpman is another one. sshfs is pretty awesome tho |
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| 08:52.09 | nvz | ,file sftpman |
| 08:52.14 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 08:52.43 | Haohmaru | pcmanfm can connect to sftp and stuff |
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| 08:53.00 | nvz | yeah that has absolutely nothing to do with the earlier conversation |
| 08:53.12 | Haohmaru | no, u |
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| 09:00.56 | BazookaTooth | sshfs is better for your use case but https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Sftpman |
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| 09:03.40 | nvz | heh.. I'm perfectly capable of writing such nonsense myself :P |
| 09:04.25 | BazookaTooth | but you didn't know about sshfs and that seems to be working for you? |
| 09:04.42 | nvz | I knew of it.. I just never saw a reason to use it |
| 09:04.56 | Haohmaru | fiy, nvz, transplanting /etc/ from one installation to another turned out to be a bad idea |
| 09:04.58 | nvz | which is why it didnt come to mind at 2am :P |
| 09:04.58 | Haohmaru | >:( |
| 09:05.08 | BazookaTooth | well maybe you'll see reason for sftpman down the road |
| 09:05.14 | nvz | nope.. |
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| 09:06.44 | nvz | I have a script on my laptop here /usr/local/bin/server which among other silly crap checks to see if I'm online, calls me an idiot for running it if I'm not, automatically changes the host depending on if I'm on one of the routers of the LAN which my server is on or not.. and by default with no arguments connects to mosh, but it also can push/pull files and ssh and all that crap |
| 09:06.55 | BazookaTooth | i like when people disregard things right off the bat then say "oh this is neat" like 6 months later |
| 09:07.04 | nvz | yeah its not neat :P |
| 09:07.24 | nvz | its the kinda thing people like me program for ourselves if we see the need for it |
| 09:07.28 | BazookaTooth | long as sshfs is doing what you wanted |
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| 09:07.59 | Haohmaru | programs a better version of nvz |
| 09:08.15 | nvz | its just a cli/gui to remember settings for sshfs which is a dead simple program |
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| 09:08.40 | BazookaTooth | so why right it over a again? |
| 09:08.50 | nvz | if I can't remember sshfs user@home:/path /mountpoint then.. |
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| 09:09.03 | nvz | there was no reason to write it in the first place |
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| 09:09.06 | nvz | heh |
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| 09:09.30 | BazookaTooth | sure. that's why someone did it |
| 09:09.34 | nvz | and I already, as I said, have such a script.. that does things like change the host depending on what network I'm connected to |
| 09:10.03 | nvz | that was why I wrote that.. cause I couldn't just put a simple name in /etc/hosts and make it change based on where I was |
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| 09:10.45 | nvz | there is no reason for that sftpman thing.. if I wanted to not type sshfs user@home:/path /mountpoint I'd just alias it :P |
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| 09:12.33 | nvz | I'd not install some script, that writes some file, that I have to learn to use and type a command longer than the one I am shortening |
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| 09:12.52 | nvz | thats just silly :P |
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| 09:13.40 | Rodon | is there any zathura-mupdf package for debian? |
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| 09:14.05 | BazookaTooth | um sftpman is dead simple. kinda the reason i use it when don't want a constantaly mounted sshfs session |
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| 09:14.49 | nvz | Rodon: whats a mupdf? |
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| 09:15.00 | jm_ | a pdf reader, I use it |
| 09:15.09 | nvz | I only vaguely know what zathura is cause I just uninstalled it recently on a machine |
| 09:15.26 | BazookaTooth | oh wait more things i should rip apart and alias like i mentioned in the arch channel |
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| 09:15.33 | jm_ | there's a RFP bug for it |
| 09:15.39 | jm_ | #833068 |
| 09:15.40 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/833068 in wnpp (open): «RFP: zathura-mupdf -- mupdf backend for zathura»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2016-07-31; last modified: 2016-08-05. |
| 09:16.06 | nvz | ,i zathura-pdf-poppler |
| 09:16.07 | judd | Package zathura-pdf-poppler (text, optional) in buster/amd64: PDF support for zathura. Version: 0.2.9-1; Size: 9.0k; Installed: 38k; Homepage: https://pwmt.org/projects/zathura |
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| 09:16.28 | BazookaTooth | zathura can use either poppler or mupdf |
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| 09:17.29 | nvz | have you μ'd today? |
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| 09:18.03 | Rodon | i dont want poppler backend ... |
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| 09:18.44 | BazookaTooth | you shouldn't. way more cve/bad things than mupdf |
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| 09:18.53 | nvz | doesn't want pdfs |
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| 09:19.03 | BazookaTooth | good luck with that |
| 09:19.58 | nvz | no luck required.. just gotta tell people off until they either use a sane format or dont send you stuff anymore :P |
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| 09:20.54 | nvz | what takes luck is getting people to stop spamming your phone |
| 09:21.23 | BazookaTooth | don't use a smartphone |
| 09:21.55 | nvz | even with block list filters and such they still call you from spoofed numbers, then act like you called them and got their recording.. |
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| 09:22.41 | BazookaTooth | i get one stray call every 2-3 months on a flip phone. go figure |
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| 09:23.50 | BazookaTooth | "but mah push notifications!" blah |
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| 09:26.48 | BazookaTooth | when was the last time anyone in here actually mailed a holiday card to someone btw? |
| 09:27.21 | nvz | idk, couple years ago.. |
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| 10:26.12 | RoyK | hi all. I have this: /usr/bin/ssh -v -o "ServerAliveInterval 20" -o "ServerAliveCountMax 5" -n -N -R 8822:localhost:22 myuser@myhost |
| 10:26.47 | RoyK | to setup an ssh tunnel from a remote machine to a central machine so that I can reach the remote machine when needed, even if it's behind nat and all |
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| 10:27.57 | RoyK | this works, fine, but when I try to add this to systemd, it doesn't work at all if I add -o "something blabla" to the ssh command. I can only guess it's because of bad quoting, but I've tried working it out, and so far I haven't managed |
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| 10:31.07 | colo-work | RoyK, use -o ServerAliveInterval=20 |
| 10:31.26 | colo-work | (etc.) |
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| 10:35.46 | RoyK | colo-work: thanks, but that wasn't issue either. It seems it's a variable expansion issue. http://paste.debian.net/1121356/ |
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| 10:36.30 | RoyK | the former $SSH_CMD $SSH_FLAGS fails. hardcoding the output of "echo $SSH_CMD $SSH_FLAGS" works |
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| 10:41.36 | ratrace | RoyK: how are you "adding this to systemd"? |
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| 10:43.25 | RoyK | ratrace: wrote it in a script and added a systemd service http://paste.debian.net/1121357/ |
| 10:43.57 | RoyK | it all works if the ssh line is hardcoded in the script, but not if it's run with the mentioned variables |
| 10:44.04 | RoyK | it works if I run the script manually |
| 10:44.14 | ratrace | RoyK: that .sh has to be an executable script, with a proper shebang |
| 10:44.15 | RoyK | but not by systemd |
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| 10:45.07 | ratrace | Also note that you're running it as root via systemd, is that what you want? |
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| 10:46.59 | RoyK | ratrace: I'm quote aware of that :þ http://paste.debian.net/1121358/ |
| 10:47.16 | ratrace | RoyK: oh btw.... you're quoting "$SSH_FLAGS" which is essentially one argument and thus invalid |
| 10:50.02 | colo-work | RoyK, have you considered "keeping it simple", and tossing all that variable-expansion-stuff out? ;) |
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| 10:51.23 | ratrace | RoyK: also in addition to what colo-work said, you can make it more in line with what other services do. move that ssh command into the ExecStart, and use EnvironmentFile, typically in /etc/defaults/ to define the vars |
| 10:51.40 | colo-work | I'd consider wrapping all these settings into a proper ssh_config-compatible file, and just specify this as a aprameter to `/usr/bin/ssh -F <configfile>` |
| 10:52.05 | colo-work | parameter* |
| 10:52.05 | ratrace | that too |
| 10:52.26 | RoyK | ratrace: quoting ssh_flags there was just a test - it doesn't work... trying to run this as the named user manually, the script, that is, fails with the same issue: command-line: line 0: Bad configuration option: 'serveraliveinterval |
| 10:52.37 | RoyK | colo-work: I know - I just want it this way - it's neater |
| 10:53.06 | colo-work | drop the single quotes around 'ServerAliveInterval=20' |
| 10:53.08 | colo-work | they're wrong |
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| 10:54.38 | RoyK | I kept using 'ServerAliveInterval 20' at first, then moved to =, but kept the quotes. Removing the quotes fixed this. Thanks |
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| 10:55.20 | RoyK | Yes, I know there are even more fancy ways of doing this 'properly', but I really just want to keep a single file with the good stuff to move around and then just change a few variables when needed |
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| 11:27.27 | wikan | nf-tables is soooooo bugged |
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| 11:29.21 | wikan | i am very close to stay with iptables |
| 11:31.35 | wikan | lol, monitor stopped to display rules :| fuck this going walk |
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| 11:32.56 | humbot | bai |
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| 11:46.58 | ratrace | wikan: I'd say nftables is still experimental, and also probably going to be superceded ebpf based packet filter. I'm personally not bothering with nf, iptables works fine. |
| 11:49.09 | wikan | retrace - do I should switch to nftables then? |
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| 11:49.55 | wikan | ratrace, it working now (nftables stopped refreshing rules for few minutes) |
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| 11:58.33 | wikan | btw, why /usr/sbin isn't in $PATH? |
| 11:58.54 | ksk | su behaviour changed with buster, see release notes :P |
| 11:59.10 | ksk | (and/or use su -) |
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| 12:00.17 | wikan | it is annoying if you work on containers |
| 12:00.30 | ksk | the same applies. |
| 12:00.33 | wikan | everytime i have to configure PATH after installation |
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| 12:00.47 | ksk | "lxc-attach -n p1 -- su root -" for example |
| 12:00.48 | ksk | wikan: you are doing it wrong |
| 12:01.01 | ratrace | not sure that's the answer to the question, the answer is sbin has never (?) been in the $PATH for unpriv users. |
| 12:01.06 | ksk | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:01.26 | ratrace | thankfully that's easy to fix :) |
| 12:01.59 | ksk | and btw, if you spawn new containers regularly, config managment is your firend (salt, chef, ansible..) |
| 12:02.54 | wikan | my config management is perl :D |
| 12:03.07 | ksk | sounds 1990 to me :P |
| 12:03.14 | wikan | yeap ;) |
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| 12:03.46 | wikan | old school |
| 12:03.56 | wikan | every app is a security issue ;) |
| 12:04.01 | ratrace | so then you do have config management :) |
| 12:04.16 | ratrace | why are you manually dealing with the $PATH then |
| 12:04.24 | wikan | i have to figure out how can I fuck out python from system :D |
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| 12:04.58 | wikan | because I am moving virtual machines to lxc yet |
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| 12:05.27 | wikan | on lxc i can use scripts ;) |
| 12:05.30 | wikan | easly |
| 12:05.53 | ratrace | so then you don't have config management? |
| 12:06.07 | wikan | on lxc not yet |
| 12:06.17 | wikan | but on other projects - yes |
| 12:06.24 | ratrace | I'd really recommend SaltStack |
| 12:06.39 | shtrb | When does the backlog updates ? ( https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/2019/12/17 ) |
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| 12:07.37 | wikan | saltstack - usless to me ;) |
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| 12:07.57 | wikan | i prefer old school |
| 12:08.50 | wikan | using common tools is very helpful for attackers |
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| 12:09.04 | ratrace | then why are you lamenting about PATH, instead of writing your own config management ;) |
| 12:09.05 | whislock | wikan: That's not how that works at all. |
| 12:09.11 | whislock | Not even slightly. |
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| 12:10.11 | wikan | in my personal opinion, python and perl in standard installation is not acceptable :( |
| 12:10.29 | whislock | The statement "using common tools is very helpful for attackers" violates the fundamental principles of information security as a practice. |
| 12:10.29 | wikan | it is like giving tools for ppl who took control on machine |
| 12:10.34 | ratrace | there's no perl or python in debians I debootstrap.... |
| 12:11.03 | wikan | retrace, how you do it? |
| 12:11.07 | whislock | wikan: There's nothing wrong with them being there. If you feel that way, remove all shells, too. |
| 12:11.37 | ratrace | whislock: the base debootstrap(8) images come like that. |
| 12:11.41 | ratrace | oops, wikan ^^^ |
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| 12:12.24 | ratrace | meanwhile, I agree with whislock, that's just.... misplaced argument. then you should remove the kernel which is THE most vulnerable and most exposed (network stack!) "common tool" there is on a systemd/linux distro :) |
| 12:12.42 | wikan | maybe, i didn't noticed yet, let me explain, ratrace |
| 12:12.53 | whislock | s/a systemd\/linux distro\/any operating system ever/ |
| 12:13.02 | ratrace | yea |
| 12:13.02 | wikan | i use a lot of vm - there is python and perl every where |
| 12:13.02 | shtrb | systemd/linux distro ?! |
| 12:13.24 | wikan | if you even don't have them, you will - almost all apt install {important-tool} installs this shit |
| 12:13.58 | ratrace | that's because a lot of programs are written in perl in python. you yourself said you were old school and used perl instead of proper config management. |
| 12:13.59 | whislock | wikan: Presence or prevalence doesn't equate to a security issue. Get to the point, please. |
| 12:14.05 | wikan | it is not about removing TOTALLY EVERYTHING , but everything you DON'T USE |
| 12:14.15 | guestyle | when that happens by upstream functionality, is fine, when that happens by maintainer scripts... |
| 12:14.33 | whislock | wikan: Not quite. It is about removing unneeded functionality. The system needs that functionality to run. |
| 12:14.33 | ratrace | wikan: I recommend Gentoo. USE flags are designed precisely for that purpose, you tailor your system for _exactly_ the software you want. |
| 12:14.50 | ratrace | but eh... python is in the core of it :) |
| 12:15.18 | wikan | ratrace love Gentoo, but it is imposible to remove everything what you don't want |
| 12:15.41 | wikan | some flags are blocked or without them compilation fails |
| 12:15.55 | ratrace | which means your wants are in conflict with how the software was written |
| 12:16.01 | whislock | wikan: What you want isn't entirely relevant. There is a level of required functionality for the system at a basic level. If you don't 'want' a component of that, well... Too bad. |
| 12:16.02 | ratrace | you can rewrite that software or adjust your wants ;) |
| 12:16.25 | wikan | well it is not that I want it and debian must give it to me |
| 12:16.35 | wikan | I am telling you how I look on administration |
| 12:16.47 | whislock | And how you look at it is wrong, fundamentally. |
| 12:16.54 | wikan | and this is painful to me when I see how many shit I have on the server and I can't remove it |
| 12:17.05 | wikan | no |
| 12:17.18 | wikan | it is the same as node or python repos |
| 12:17.39 | wikan | nobody check anything just pip it, composer it or node-something |
| 12:17.58 | whislock | Okay. And what capability does that give an unprivileged user on the system that they don't already have with bash? |
| 12:18.17 | ratrace | I can agree with that, and that's why I like to debootstrap my installations, so I configure them bottom-up, instead of culling down stuff I don't need. However, I accept minimum requirements for the software I _want_, to exist. |
| 12:18.51 | wikan | i accept it too, because i have to ;) |
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| 12:19.03 | whislock | wikan: You are making all of the typical mistakes that every novice security adminstrator makes. |
| 12:19.25 | whislock | You think that things have to be perfect. The reality is that there is a level of acceptable risk. |
| 12:19.26 | wikan | whislock explain your view please |
| 12:19.49 | wikan | whislock - wrong |
| 12:19.52 | whislock | You feel this compulsion to go through and check every box. To remove every possible perceived weakness, no matter how minor or trivial. |
| 12:19.52 | ratrace | this sounds like that age old myth about having a compiler on a server somehow being a security risk. |
| 12:20.07 | wikan | because I think that things have to vbe perfect it doesn't mean it is wrong |
| 12:20.19 | wikan | do your job as good as you can without excuse |
| 12:20.29 | whislock | wikan: I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but you *are* wrong. |
| 12:21.13 | whislock | wikan: Your entire process, both mentally and administratively, is wrong. |
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| 12:21.26 | whislock | The fact that you think things have to be perfect is proof of that. |
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| 12:21.45 | wikan | what is wrong thin a vision? it is a vistion only |
| 12:22.03 | whislock | Because you're allowing that vision to drive your judgment AND your learning process. |
| 12:22.05 | wikan | i have to deal with inperfection as we all |
| 12:22.11 | wikan | i told you that would be a great |
| 12:22.30 | whislock | You're approaching this conversation as if you already have all of the answers, as if your way is the only right way. |
| 12:22.33 | wikan | whislock - and it is exelect |
| 12:22.37 | wikan | exellent |
| 12:23.08 | whislock | Your vision is wrong. It is malformed and mistaken. You have no concept of risks, threats, or any of the other components that must be considered to drive your choices of what is and is not necessary. |
| 12:23.10 | wikan | because I can use my vision to learn a lot stuff that other admins don't even tried |
| 12:23.22 | wikan | and this is not related with real administration |
| 12:23.24 | whislock | wikan: You're never going to learn anything with that mentality. |
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| 12:23.28 | themill | wikan: let's move on |
| 12:24.36 | wikan | for example - sorry but if you dont turn policy drop on on output firewall filter, you will never learn how your apps communicate and works |
| 12:24.46 | wikan | you are blind administrator |
| 12:24.58 | wikan | you don't know your basic services |
| 12:25.20 | wikan | but nobody tells you to use drop outpit policy on the server |
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| 12:26.07 | whislock | wikan: You were told to move on. |
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| 12:39.51 | shoobie | I'm running Debian stretch and want to upgrade git, in consideration of the security issues. The latest git available through aptitude is 2.11.0. What approach do people recommend be taken to upgrade git with Debian? |
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| 12:40.59 | karlpinc | shoobie: Stretch is still under security support, so don't upgrade. |
| 12:41.29 | karlpinc | shoobie: There should not be security issues. |
| 12:41.49 | shoobie | I'm referring to this announcement: https://github.blog/2019-12-10-multiple-git-vulnerabilities-in-2-24-and-older/ |
| 12:42.21 | themill | https://www.debian.org/security/2019/dsa-4581 |
| 12:42.33 | karlpinc | shoobie: zless /usr/share/doc/git/changelog.Debian.gz |
| 12:44.34 | dka | W: Failed to fetch http://debian.mirrors.ovh.net/debian/dists/jessie-backports/main/source/Sources 404 Not Found |
| 12:44.38 | dka | when I do apt-get update |
| 12:44.43 | dka | W: Failed to fetch http://debian.mirrors.ovh.net/debian/dists/jessie-backports/main/binary-amd64/Packages 404 Not Found |
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| 12:45.12 | karlpinc | dka: Jessie may no longer be on all the mirrors. |
| 12:45.15 | themill | jessie-backports hasn't existed for quite a while |
| 12:45.19 | f476 | maybe mirror down |
| 12:45.43 | shtrb | dka, jessie retired |
| 12:45.52 | dka | ok |
| 12:46.08 | shtrb | time for buster :) |
| 12:46.12 | karlpinc | dka: See: http://www.debian.org/distrib/archive |
| 12:46.16 | dka | It's the host with the docker HTTPS public reverse proxy |
| 12:46.21 | dka | I am afraid to upgrade |
| 12:46.43 | karlpinc | dka: Then it's sure to break, or be broken into, eventually. |
| 12:47.05 | dka | what? |
| 12:47.38 | dvs | dka, as new vulnerabilities are found, it won't be fixed for jessie so you'll be vulnerable |
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| 12:58.53 | jelly | dvs, dka: jessie-backports repo is archived; however, normal jessie repo packages still have some limited security support from the LTS Team. If you already have packages installed from jessie-backports, avoid using them in exposed systems, no security support there. |
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| 13:10.48 | dka | How can I upgrade safely? |
| 13:11.08 | dka | I only use docker and node |
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| 13:13.26 | dka | Hi, i have a script that I run with: `xvfb-run node /home/dka/debian-cron/so_visitor/index.js`, I want to run it with crontab, I have added in crontab a command and I see syslog running it, but it doesn't produce the same result, one seems to fail silently |
| 13:16.45 | ratrace | dka: you can add MAILTO=your@email.address to the crontab, or make sure the user that tab entry is running as, can receive email or aliases it to your@email.address ; alternatively redirect all output to a (log)file, eg. by adding > /some-file 2>&1 at the end of that line |
| 13:16.58 | ratrace | make sure the user that tab entry runs as can write to that path |
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| 13:51.39 | karlpinc | dka: To upgrade safely you follow the instructions found in the Debian Release Notes, which are hard to find on the documentation page at debian.org. |
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| 14:01.13 | ychaouche | hello #debian, how can i troubleshoot a package installing failure ? it says unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. https://imgur.com/a/i6JaZCg |
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| 14:13.12 | ychaouche | apt-mark showhold shows no package :( |
| 14:14.49 | dvs | ychaouche, apt-cache policy emacs25-nox |
| 14:15.27 | shoobie | karlpinc: does debian automatically patch itself? I thought I had to manually run patches. the changelog.Debian.gz you recommended I look at shows the patch. I never manually applied it though.. |
| 14:16.34 | shoobie | themill: what happens, or already happened , with this announcement? https://www.debian.org/security/2019/dsa-4581 |
| 14:16.54 | ychaouche | dvs, https://imgur.com/a/i6JaZCg |
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| 14:17.22 | towo` | ychaouche, why you post pictures for simple text output? |
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| 14:17.44 | dvs | shoobie, "For the stable distribution (buster), these problems have been fixed in version 1:2.20.1-2+deb10u1." |
| 14:18.04 | ychaouche | towo`, it's in vmware client I don't know how to copy/paste... there's not even mouse |
| 14:18.29 | ychaouche | towo`, I will try to upload to clbin.com |
| 14:18.38 | shoobie | dvs: I'm trying to understand whether patches are applied automatically or I need to do something (still on Stretch) |
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| 14:20.12 | dvs | !stretch |
| 14:20.12 | dpkg | Stretch is the codename for the current <oldstable> release, Debian 9, released 2017-06-17. "Stretch" is the rubber octopus in Toy Story 3, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianStretch . Ask me about <install stretch>, <release notes>, <jessie->stretch>. |
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| 14:21.11 | karlpinc | shoobie: When you do an "apt upgrade" (or equalivent) you get the latest patched software from debian. Assuming your sources.list file is correct. The security policy is described in the following factoid: |
| 14:21.14 | karlpinc | !stable |
| 14:21.14 | dpkg | [stable] The status of a Debian release when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is Buster (10.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me about <security backports>). https://wiki.debian.org/DebianStable |
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| 14:22.09 | shoobie | karlpinc: I see. thanks for clarifying that! |
| 14:22.41 | ychaouche | package curl has no installation candidate |
| 14:22.50 | ychaouche | there's something wrong with this sytem |
| 14:22.53 | karlpinc | shoobie: Stretch is under LTS support, which is limited and does not cover every package. I don't know how to find out what packages _are_ covered. (My guess is "the important ones".) |
| 14:23.38 | karlpinc | !tell ychaouche about bat |
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| 14:26.02 | ychaouche | karlpinc, https://imgur.com/a/i6JaZCg |
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| 14:33.25 | nyov | ychaouche: looks like you totally don't have the main repo there. hehehe |
| 14:33.36 | nyov | living on updates only? |
| 14:33.55 | dvs | nyov, I tried to determine that but the same initial link is getting posted over and over again. |
| 14:34.01 | whislock | !sources |
| 14:34.02 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
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| 14:38.47 | mason | !sns |
| 14:38.48 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
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| 14:43.33 | Kats99 | Hey guys something really unexpected has occured. I installed git-all and some packages popped up to be autoremoved and I did. But now when I rebooted everything has reset completely. Systemd looked different. Everything takes a lot of time to load and so on. I can't even use my computer properly |
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| 14:44.38 | mason | Kats99: I'm going to take a wild guess and say something's mucked up your resolv.conf. |
| 14:45.14 | mason | Not sure about the "systemd looks different" but if your name resolution is hosed up, lots of things will be slow starting, or might time-out altogether. |
| 14:45.46 | Kats99 | There is nothing in etc resolv.conf |
| 14:45.48 | nyov | uh oh. "some packages ... autoremoved" ouchy? |
| 14:46.24 | Kats99 | Yes..I'm gonna take a screenshot of the packages removed and upload |
| 14:46.40 | nyov | can you clarify those some packages? I suppose not --- or you can? that'd be helpful |
| 14:46.49 | mason | Kats99: If there's nothing in resolv.conf, then you've found your problem. |
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| 14:49.07 | Kats99 | nyov: I cat the history log of apt and I'm gonna upload it on Imgur. It's uploading slowly on my phone. I cannot even connect to a network from my computer. But I can say some of the packages removed like speech dispatcher zenith and whole other lib* |
| 14:49.19 | ychaouche | mason, ahhh, much better now :) thanks |
| 14:49.26 | nyov | possibly mason has the better crystal ball there, mine doesn't see clearly with systemd |
| 14:49.49 | Kats99 | mason: What should I do?? Ive got a lot of softwares installed. I'm panicking rn |
| 14:49.52 | nyov | but if resolv.conf is empty then there must be a reason for the emptiness, maybe broken net config |
| 14:50.17 | zodd_ | Some packages have a hardcoded main versionnumber in their name. For instance openjdk or libavcodec-extra-58. How can one handle dependencies on that (requires version x or newer)? |
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| 14:50.43 | ychaouche | mason, why aren't they put by default though ? |
| 14:51.05 | mason | Kats99: I don't know how your network is (supposed to be) configured. But the answer is there. How do you (want to) configure it? |
| 14:51.29 | Kats99 | Network manager.. that's how it was before |
| 14:51.30 | mason | ychaouche: He probably removed resolvconf or something. |
| 14:51.42 | mason | Kats99: is /etc/resolv.conf a symlink? If so, to what? |
| 14:51.43 | whislock | networkmanager doesn't rely on resolvconf. |
| 14:51.56 | whislock | And if NM is handling that, it won't be a symlink, either. |
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| 14:52.05 | whislock | Kats99: Static or dynamic (DHCP) IP? |
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| 14:52.31 | shtrb | whislock, since when ? |
| 14:52.41 | whislock | shtrb: Since when what? |
| 14:52.43 | mason | whislock: With no data about what happened, it's worth covering the bases. |
| 14:53.02 | shtrb | Since when network-manager does not rely on resolv.conf , you can disable it but by default it was taking it |
| 14:53.06 | whislock | shtrb: NM has never relied on resolvconf. It's always written to resolv.conf directly. |
| 14:53.12 | Kats99 | Symlink to run/resolv.conf |
| 14:53.13 | Kats99 | whislock: not sure |
| 14:53.14 | whislock | Note: resolvconf is the package, resolv.conf is the file. |
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| 14:53.29 | whislock | Don't blame me, I didn't name it. |
| 14:53.36 | mason | whislock: You're probably new to Debian, but you might see different packages claiming resolv.conf at different points. Read the man page for dpkg-divert sometime, for an example of this general variety of action happening. |
| 14:53.44 | whislock | mason: Excuse you? |
| 14:54.07 | mason | whislock: That's not correct grammar. You'd say "excuse me?" |
| 14:54.15 | whislock | mason: I know precisely what I said. |
| 14:54.21 | Kats99 | I didn't remove any package myself. It just asked me to remove them as they were no longer needed. But when I did the computer acted strangely so I rebooted and got into this mess |
| 14:54.23 | mason | whislock: But we should move language lessons to -offtopic. |
| 14:54.26 | whislock | mason: If i were you, I would keep your colossally inaccurate assumptions to yourself. |
| 14:54.49 | mason | whislock: Now, I know you like being abusive, and we can explore why that is sometime, but keep that to -offtopic too please. |
| 14:55.09 | mason | Kats99: Is /etc/resolv.conf a symlink or a plain file? |
| 14:55.12 | whislock | mason: Normally, I try to be polite. In this case, you warrant no such courtesy. Go fuck your incompetent self. |
| 14:55.26 | Kats99 | Symlink |
| 14:55.55 | mason | whislock: I think the logs show that normally you don't try to be polite; you seem to revel in ad-hominem attacks and being abusive. But this might be better kept to -offtopic. |
| 14:56.01 | nyov | let's keep it civil |
| 14:56.06 | mason | Kats99: What's it a symlink to? |
| 14:56.37 | Kats99 | Etc resolv.conf run resolve.conf |
| 14:56.44 | whislock | Kats99: Does it have a header warning that NM is managing the file and that changes will be lost? |
| 14:57.27 | mason | Kats99: So, your package changes that you noted installed resolvconf, at a guess, and this is causing problems. |
| 14:57.49 | Kats99 | File generated by resolvconf |
| 14:57.56 | Kats99 | Dynamic resolv.conf for glibc resolver |
| 14:58.05 | mason | Kats99: That said, whislock is eager to help you, so since we know what the problem is now, I'll leave him to it. |
| 14:58.35 | Kats99 | Anybody will do.. please.. |
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| 15:00.36 | mason | Kats99: If it were me, and with the notion that I don't know precisely what you did to bring this about, I'd 1) verify that NM is still installed and knows about your configs, 2) purge resolvconf, 3) remove the /etc/resolv.conf symlink, and maybe touch /etc/resolv.conf so you have an empty one, and 4) nmcli con down =connection= ; nmcli con up =connection= or similar to see if it regenerates resolv.conf. |
| 15:00.58 | nyov | let's figure out that bad upgrade-path maybe |
| 15:01.00 | nyov | I think the root cause might be in the packages that got removed |
| 15:01.21 | mason | Kats99: What nyov says as well, since you don't want to find yourself back at this point once you're running again. |
| 15:02.21 | zodd_ | Do people that have ops rights here also have ops rights in debian-<lang> channels? I see something disturbing in a topic, but obviously cannot change it without ops. |
| 15:02.45 | mason | zodd_: You could ask in the ops channel. Or query Freenode to see who has ops in the channel in question. |
| 15:03.02 | nyov | or summon !ops |
| 15:03.20 | mason | zodd_: /msg chanserv access #somechannel list |
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| 15:05.04 | zodd_ | thanks. Lol. last time someone with ops was active was 4y+ ago |
| 15:05.23 | mason | zodd_: Sometimes the folks in #freenode can help too, if there are no channel ops handy. |
| 15:06.35 | jelly | zodd_: which channel in particular are you dealing with? You can ask in #debian-ops if it's sensitive. |
| 15:06.58 | nyov | etckeeper should possibly become standard. does systemd have facilities to log un/installed packages? |
| 15:07.44 | mason | nyov: There's /var/log/apt |
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| 15:08.19 | zodd_ | jelly, #debian-nl : weird URLs in the topic as well as stating Wheezy is the current stable release... |
| 15:08.22 | nyov | mason: right. that's something I forgot |
| 15:08.24 | zodd_ | slightly outdated.... |
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| 15:18.06 | jelly | zodd_: set 2013, I daresay that's a dead channel! |
| 15:18.46 | jelly | zodd_: see if there's a #debian-nl channel on OFTC (irc.oftc.net = irc.debian.org) with a larger number of Dutchies |
| 15:19.12 | annadane | wheezy isn't current stable?! |
| 15:19.15 | jelly | zodd_: yeah, 24 people on oftc |
| 15:19.33 | mason | annadane: It's arguably the last stable release. =cough= |
| 15:19.37 | nyov | REALLY? it was just released, wasn't it? |
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| 15:21.21 | nyov | time flies. or this is wrong reality. again. |
| 15:21.57 | zodd_ | jelly, I never config Debian to use something else but English. So I see no need, but thanks. It just caught my attention when looking for a channel about debian packaging |
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| 15:27.54 | zodd_ | I was looking for a channel about packaging to ask: Some packages have a hardcoded main versionnumber in their name. For instance openjdk or libavcodec-extra-58. How can one handle dependencies on that (requires version x or newer)? |
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| 15:31.25 | nyov | zodd_: if you're trying to do deb packaging, you can try #debian-mentors |
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| 15:31.35 | mason | (on OFTC) |
| 15:31.42 | nyov | right |
| 15:31.50 | nyov | but knowing the basics would help |
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| 15:35.02 | Akuw | how can i read a .tx file ? |
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| 15:35.37 | greycat | use the "file" program to get a first-order guess as to the contents, and then apply your knowledge and go from there |
| 15:36.03 | greycat | if file says it's "ASCII text" then it was probably intended to be a .txt program and someone mangled the filename slightly |
| 15:36.18 | greycat | s/txt program/txt file/ |
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| 15:38.18 | Syngentrall | msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER Syngentrall yrvygxniefws |
| 15:38.38 | whislock | Syngentrall: / |
| 15:38.45 | whislock | Kats99: Glad you're back up and running. |
| 15:38.46 | greycat | also, choose a different password now |
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| 15:39.02 | whislock | I don't think the verify part uses your password. |
| 15:39.06 | whislock | So at least there's that. |
| 15:39.12 | Akuw | is ASCII test, with very long lines |
| 15:39.20 | Akuw | wait |
| 15:40.46 | Akuw | wrong file |
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| 15:40.59 | Akuw | the output says Data |
| 15:41.23 | ksk | Akuw: then I suggest asking whoever gave you the file. |
| 15:42.35 | ksk | google suggest its "textcontrol" wich looks rather proprietary to me |
| 15:42.36 | nyov | just 'less' it |
| 15:43.00 | greycat | I'm still going with the "filename extension is not correct" guess for now. |
| 15:43.00 | nyov | could also be a transifex translation, i think they use that ext |
| 15:43.16 | EdePopede | or 'hd' its beginning (just to keep the terminal clean) |
| 15:43.30 | Akuw | is a .tx file |
| 15:43.38 | greycat | It would be useful if they would tell us the ACTUAL filename, and the ACTUAL output of file(1), not just a transcription with changed capitalization and missing information. |
| 15:43.38 | nyov | rolleyes |
| 15:43.42 | Akuw | greycat: i am right |
| 15:43.54 | nyov | and i think typo3 also used that ext. |
| 15:44.06 | EdePopede | Akuw: it has a .tx file extension. whatever the real content may be. text file with long lines you said. |
| 15:44.16 | greycat | EdePopede: and then they CHANGED THEIR ANSWER |
| 15:44.20 | Akuw | when try to open with vi you only see crazy chars |
| 15:44.26 | greycat | because gods forbid they paste the ACTUAL OUTPUT |
| 15:45.59 | EdePopede | greycat: i think that's about those crappy browsers talking about "text file" and "image file" all the time. and windows (with som exceptions) not knowing the difference between envelope (.ext) and content (MIME). this poisoned the thinking of users for decades now. |
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| 15:46.09 | jelly | zodd_: numeric values at the end of a library package name are increased when there's an ABI / SONAME change. This makes it possible for older, incompatible builds of the same binary library to be installed at the same time. If you're building packages from _source_ you use debhelper, more precisely, dh_shlibs , to figure out dependencies automatically |
| 15:46.34 | greycat | EdePopede: they literally said "wait" and "wrong file" and "the output says Data" |
| 15:46.44 | EdePopede | some are shy, others post even their passwords to the channel ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 15:46.49 | jelly | zodd_: sorry, dh_shlibdeps |
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| 15:47.39 | greycat | You know what else they haven't told us? Any kind of backstory. "I downloaded this file from the deep web." "My boss sent me this file as an email attachment." Nothing. |
| 15:47.50 | EdePopede | <Akuw> when try to open with vi you only see crazy chars <-- AKA non-alphanumeric characters. content you really can expect in a file that's not text |
| 15:47.51 | zodd_ | jelly, I am currently analyzing and commenting on a troublesome third party .deb |
| 15:48.02 | zodd_ | so not actually building one myself |
| 15:48.20 | Akuw | yes |
| 15:48.23 | diogenes_ | Hey guys, how comes that out of the earliest popular distros of the 90s, only Debian survived and is enjoying great success, whereas slackware is almost a dead horse, mandriva is long time RIP, Debian is blooming? |
| 15:48.29 | mason | whislock: I'm not sure why you feel it's appropriate to private message me, but don't. Not reading it. |
| 15:48.29 | Akuw | Edepopede: i just test |
| 15:48.30 | greycat | All we have are three characters that are allegedly part of the filename, and two different, contradictory, mangled file(1) output fragments. |
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| 15:49.18 | ksk | diogenes_: I can only guess, and also I have never used the distris you mentioned - but afaik you needed to be some kind of wizard to just install slackware, no? ;) |
| 15:49.44 | greycat | Slackware's installer was nothing terribly difficult, as far as I know. |
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| 15:50.05 | whislock | It tended to install way more packages than needed, unless you went through each package group list one package at a time. |
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| 15:50.17 | whislock | Not sure if that's changed, I haven't touched it in ages. |
| 15:50.21 | EdePopede | Akuw: run the beginning of the file (use `dd` to get it) through `hd` (a link to hexdump). but if not even `file` knows about it then it *may* be something proprietary from some obscure enterprise tool or such. no magic numbers even maybe |
| 15:50.59 | nyov | if it's a binary of significant size, you could binwalk it |
| 15:51.11 | nyov | might have some guesses as to the filetype |
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| 15:51.49 | diogenes_ | so the key to success of Debian is that it offers an easier way to do stuff? |
| 15:51.51 | ratrace | diogenes_: don't forget Red Hat and SuSE |
| 15:52.04 | EdePopede | i remember i also have such a file somewhere. pretty sure i created it with one of those encrypting tools which all sound similar. also Data only from file(1) and i recognized it only by its filename. |
| 15:52.08 | jelly | zodd_: ah. in that case all bets are off, but the easiest way to fix it is probably by repacking (dpkg --extract foo.deb tmpdir; dpkg --control foo.deb tmpdir/DEBIAN; vim tmpdir/DEBIAN/control; dpkg -b tmpdir .) |
| 15:52.37 | jelly | diogenes_: easier for both developers and users, yes |
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| 15:52.57 | elhem | bonjour |
| 15:53.10 | diogenes_ | very good! |
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| 15:54.15 | whislock | Is there an up to date guide for building an official backport package? The existing docs have a "these are very out of date" warning. |
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| 15:54.34 | greycat | !ssb |
| 15:54.34 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
| 15:54.46 | EdePopede | diogenes_: debian was always fine for servers, no? and it is pretty usable on the desktop. i only switched to S.u.S.E. years ago because of the (T-)ISDN crap, couldn't get Debian to handle it. after being really satisfied with it. was by far easier to handle than slackware :D |
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| 15:54.54 | whislock | greycat: The SSB process is the same? |
| 15:55.08 | greycat | *shrug* try it and see |
| 15:55.17 | whislock | Fair enough. |
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| 15:57.27 | JordiGH | Life with Firefox is pain: https://jordi.platinum.edu.pl/piccies/Screenshot.png |
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| 15:57.51 | nyov | jelly? I veto that. debian is *hard* |
| 15:58.08 | nyov | for developers |
| 15:58.56 | JordiGH | Which developers? |
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| 15:59.05 | jelly | nyov: its success wasn't done today, but 20 years back :-) |
| 15:59.12 | nyov | sure it wasn't always that, but policy now |
| 15:59.15 | nyov | right |
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| 15:59.51 | nyov | should have tried becoming DD in the days of binary package uploads. hehe |
| 15:59.55 | JordiGH | Oh, DDs? Those developers? |
| 16:00.08 | JordiGH | Waitaminute, you don't upload binary packages anymore? |
| 16:00.13 | JordiGH | Since when? |
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| 16:00.29 | JordiGH | I guess since we got lots of powerful autobuilders? |
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| 16:01.37 | nyov | well, i don't rightly remember. when did source packages appear? |
| 16:03.31 | nyov | anyway, bfs, and reproduceable, and obey ZE POLICY :) |
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| 16:04.48 | greycat | one might argue that the stricter policy and the more difficult packaging requirements (if indeed this is true) have led to a more reliable product |
| 16:05.13 | greycat | then again, it's also a more *stable* product in the worst sense of that word, with lots of packages being semi-abandoned |
| 16:05.33 | nyov | greycat, definitely. and also the package format. I remember my days on SuSE, trying to get to install random RPMs off the internet... lol |
| 16:05.46 | nyov | turns out they were all redhat pkgs |
| 16:06.07 | nyov | mucked up real good |
| 16:06.38 | greycat | That still happens today, with people installing random Ubuntu or third-party pkgs on Debian and breaking it. |
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| 16:07.05 | nyov | well, back then there was no ubuntu. so if you found a deb, chances were good it would fit |
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| 16:16.19 | Kobaz | is there like a #debian dev channel |
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| 16:16.33 | abrotman | for what purpose? |
| 16:16.34 | greycat | a million of them, all on OFTC |
| 16:17.00 | Kobaz | abrotman: for help with dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc |
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| 16:18.15 | jelly | Kobaz: if you plan to build for inclusion in Debian, #debian-mentors; if you don't, there's #packaging ... it's quite okay to ask here first as well |
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| 16:18.52 | Kobaz | my issue is, trying to debug a package that's crashing, so i need to rebuild it without stipped symbols... i cannot find a way to disable strip when using dpkg-buildpackage |
| 16:19.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1400] by debhelper |
| 16:19.03 | Kobaz | *stripped |
| 16:19.11 | apathor | hi. on package removal is there an option or something i can set to stop and disable associated services? |
| 16:19.16 | nyov | Kobaz, couldn't you just install debug symbols? |
| 16:19.24 | abrotman | Kobaz: /win 62 |
| 16:19.26 | abrotman | nope |
| 16:19.46 | nyov | (tha't a local symlink I think) |
| 16:19.47 | Kobaz | nyov: i could if tsomeone built that package (remina) but there are no debug versions available |
| 16:20.34 | jelly | Kobaz: is it a version of remmina that's built in debian for your release? |
| 16:20.40 | Kobaz | yes |
| 16:20.48 | Kobaz | the vnc plugin keeps crashing |
| 16:20.52 | jelly | which package version is it |
| 16:21.17 | jelly | there were backports for remmina fixing some stuff |
| 16:21.20 | jelly | ,v remmina |
| 16:21.21 | judd | Package: remmina on amd64 -- jessie: 1.1.1-2; stretch-backports: 1.3.3+dfsg-2~bpo9+1; buster: 1.3.3+dfsg-2; buster-backports: 1.3.6+dfsg-2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1.3.6+dfsg-2; sid: 1.3.6+dfsg-2 |
| 16:21.32 | Kobaz | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:21.59 | Kobaz | same crash issue has been following me around since jessie |
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| 16:30.22 | Kobaz | i suppose i could just download the regular source package and start from there |
| 16:30.30 | Kobaz | but i really would like to it it the debian-way |
| 16:30.41 | Kobaz | because then it's not including all the local patches from the maintainers and all that |
| 16:32.22 | nyov | Kobaz: https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Debug_Symbol_Packages |
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| 16:33.53 | Kobaz | oooh |
| 16:33.56 | Kobaz | a whole repo |
| 16:34.07 | Kobaz | i thought there had to be a -dbg package |
| 16:34.29 | JordiGH | I think debug packges are standard now instead of being optional like they once were? |
| 16:34.50 | JordiGH | At least each time I run dpkg-buildpackage it produces a -dbg package. |
| 16:35.31 | Kobaz | oh |
| 16:36.39 | Kobaz | so uhh... i run dpkg-buildpackage as per the guide (https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/build.en.html) and it does not build any .deb's |
| 16:37.02 | JordiGH | What does it do instead? |
| 16:37.17 | Kobaz | builds the source, binaries built |
| 16:37.46 | Kobaz | dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc |
| 16:37.49 | Kobaz | that's what i'm using |
| 16:38.42 | nyov | did it finish successfully? |
| 16:38.48 | Kobaz | Err:19 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian-debug buster-backports Release |
| 16:38.48 | Kobaz | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:38.48 | nyov | the package will land outside the source tree/build-dir, look in ../ |
| 16:38.49 | JordiGH | Oh, I just run plain dpkg-buildpackage, but what do you mean "builds the binaries", if not .deb packages? |
| 16:38.49 | Kobaz | yes it did |
| 16:39.07 | Kobaz | oooh, i see ../ |
| 16:39.28 | Kobaz | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 431K Dec 14 13:21 debian/remmina/usr/bin/remmina <-- defition of "builds the binaries: |
| 16:39.42 | Kobaz | can't type today... definition |
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| 16:40.02 | Kobaz | oh okay i had no idea where it put the .debs... okay this is making more sense |
| 16:40.11 | JordiGH | In this context, "binaries" is shorthand for "binary packages". And yes, they go one directory above, so as to not pollute the source tree. |
| 16:40.11 | halfbit | is there an interactive tool to setup the debian directory that I'm just not searching correctly for |
| 16:40.33 | annadane | "setup the debian directory"? |
| 16:40.48 | nyov | anyway, there is a remmina-dbgsym in the 'deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-debug/ buster-debug main' |
| 16:41.03 | halfbit | yeah for packaging |
| 16:41.04 | nyov | and also remmina-dbg |
| 16:41.09 | halfbit | there's the large set of dh_XXX scripts |
| 16:41.20 | halfbit | was hoping there might be one to setup the initial files in debian/ |
| 16:41.30 | Kobaz | oh look at that |
| 16:41.46 | jelly | but that's not buster-backports |
| 16:41.50 | Kobaz | ah right |
| 16:42.00 | Kobaz | why does remmina-dbg not show up for: apt-cache search remmina |
| 16:42.03 | JordiGH | Did Joey Hess ever get around to finishing his life work of rewriting debhelper in Haskell? |
| 16:42.09 | nyov | jelly: ah f. right. my bad again |
| 16:42.44 | jelly | deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-debug/ buster-backports-debug main # works as well! |
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| 16:43.25 | jelly | JordiGH: no but he has a rather nice chef/puppet/ansible thing in haskell! |
| 16:43.46 | Kobaz | what about std debg |
| 16:43.53 | Kobaz | Err:14 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian-debug buster-debug Release 404 Not Found [IP: 128.61.240.89 80] |
| 16:44.24 | jelly | not all repos carry dbgsym, it's a LOT extra disk space |
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| 16:46.05 | halfbit | what do you do if the package doesn't actually have versions |
| 16:46.07 | halfbit | just git commits |
| 16:46.57 | halfbit | f it, date based I guess |
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| 16:47.35 | JordiGH | Date + hash is traditional, yes. |
| 16:48.09 | JordiGH | Also, what is this, ffmpeg? |
| 16:48.20 | JordiGH | What kind of clowny software are you looking at that can't be bothered to create releases? |
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| 16:50.12 | jelly | halfbit: there's a dozen different variations of versions using date together with git short hash, all ugly |
| 16:51.22 | greycat | for a good time, call dpkg -l | grep 'git[[:xdigit:]]\{7\}' |
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| 16:52.01 | jelly | rc libtxc-dxtn-s2tc0:amd64 0~git20131104-1.1 # literally less than zero |
| 16:52.43 | Kobaz | haha |
| 16:52.50 | Kobaz | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:55.33 | jelly | variations on 1.0.0+git-20190125.36a4c85-1 seem to be most prevalent |
| 16:58.09 | nyov | quite the weird stuff. having subminor version numbers but not being bothered to actually use them |
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| 17:01.36 | WS-C246-PRO | where should I go for help about gpu support on a pretty bleeding edge motherboard? I'm having issues getting the onboard GPU working, it's intel UHD Graphics 610 / 630 / P630 |
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| 17:02.25 | WS-C246-PRO | i've been doing this a long time and it seems to me like there might just not be support in the stock kernels and probably the firmware blob specific to the device is not present either |
| 17:02.48 | WS-C246-PRO | it's an Asus WS-C246 PRO |
| 17:08.22 | diogenes_ | WS-C246-PRO, try clear linux. |
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| 17:12.53 | jhutchins_wk | WS-C246-PRO: If it's a firmware issue, there should be something in dmesg that says "firmware". |
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| 17:13.04 | WS-C246-PRO | yah, no such luck |
| 17:13.09 | WS-C246-PRO | it doesn't even attempt to load firmware |
| 17:13.19 | WS-C246-PRO | so i'm assuming it's *at least* a kernel issue |
| 17:13.31 | jhutchins_wk | WS-C246-PRO: If it's an issue of wheterh the chipset is supported, post the pciid from lspci -nn |
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| 17:13.34 | WS-C246-PRO | and possibly an intel Xorg driver issue on top of that (though I guess cross that bridge when it comes) |
| 17:13.48 | WS-C246-PRO | k, one moment |
| 17:14.34 | WS-C246-PRO | would be nice if all i need to do is add the pci id to the kernel driver src and rebuild |
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| 17:14.49 | WS-C246-PRO | though unrelated, any idea where make-kpkg went in debian 10.2? |
| 17:15.23 | WS-C246-PRO | kernel-package no longer exists, apt-file couldn't find anything |
| 17:15.52 | joepublic | WS-C246-PRO, I think make-kpkg is deprecated, the kernel make scripts can instead make you deb files |
| 17:15.54 | WS-C246-PRO | 0x3e98 is the pci id |
| 17:16.25 | WS-C246-PRO | ah ok.. i knew that had debian stuff in there but make-kpkg always worked so nicely.. i will just use their make targets |
| 17:16.44 | joepublic | use make deb-pkg |
| 17:16.55 | WS-C246-PRO | so lspci just gives me generic "Intel Corporation Device 3e98 (rev 02)" |
| 17:16.55 | jhutchins_wk | WS-C246-PRO: Uh, no, pciid is [8086:xxxx] |
| 17:17.09 | WS-C246-PRO | hmm? |
| 17:17.23 | WS-C246-PRO | oh am i talking about the wrong id? |
| 17:17.26 | joepublic | four digits for vendor id, four digits for product id |
| 17:17.27 | greycat | use "lspci -nn" to get the PCI ID |
| 17:17.31 | WS-C246-PRO | k |
| 17:17.32 | jhutchins_wk | Yeah, that's not a pci id. |
| 17:17.52 | WS-C246-PRO | ah, sorry, 8086:3e98 |
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| 17:18.23 | greycat | to be fair, I guessed that would be the case from "Intel Corporation Device 3e98" |
| 17:18.50 | WS-C246-PRO | heh, well whatever, you're helping so no worries |
| 17:19.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1383] by debhelper |
| 17:19.25 | jhutchins_wk | ,pciid 8086:3e98 |
| 17:19.26 | judd | [8086:3e98] is 'UHD Graphics 630 (Desktop 9 Series)' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'ata-generic' in stretch. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=8086:3e98 |
| 17:19.49 | jelly | ,pciid 8086:3e98 --release buster |
| 17:19.50 | judd | [8086:3e98] is 'UHD Graphics 630 (Desktop 9 Series)' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'ata-generic' in buster. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=8086:3e98 |
| 17:19.51 | WS-C246-PRO | yah, the sound drivers loaded fine |
| 17:19.58 | greycat | here's an Arch Linux user with that chipset, but I don't understand their "solution" yet: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=242465 |
| 17:20.07 | jelly | ,pciid 8086:3e98 --release sid |
| 17:20.08 | judd | [8086:3e98] is 'UHD Graphics 630 (Desktop 9 Series)' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'i915', 'snd-hda-intel', 'ata-generic' in sid. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=8086:3e98 |
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| 17:20.37 | WS-C246-PRO | derp, i didn't search the pci id |
| 17:20.38 | WS-C246-PRO | my bad |
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| 17:20.44 | greycat | I strongly suspect it's "buster can't handle this device". |
| 17:20.45 | jelly | WS-C246-PRO: if you're on Debian 10, try installing and booting into the kernel from buster-backports |
| 17:20.53 | jelly | !bpo kernel |
| 17:20.54 | dpkg | Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are available from the <buster-backports> repository. After modifying your sources.list, run «apt update». To install the current backported kernel: «apt -t buster-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`». To list available backported kernel image packages: «aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'». |
| 17:21.00 | WS-C246-PRO | ok, will try that |
| 17:21.18 | greycat | ,file kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin |
| 17:21.24 | judd | Search for kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin in buster/amd64: firmware-misc-nonfree: lib/firmware/i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin |
| 17:21.29 | greycat | ok, that's a good sign |
| 17:21.52 | greycat | (if you don't already have firmware-misc-nonfree installed, you may need it) (the good sign is that buster's version of that firmware might be good enough) |
| 17:21.56 | jelly | WS-C246-PRO: and if you use a kernel from bpo also upgrade the firmware packages to versions from bpo |
| 17:22.05 | jelly | justin case |
| 17:22.06 | greycat | (or maybe jelly disagrees) |
| 17:22.36 | WS-C246-PRO | yep, doing that now |
| 17:22.46 | jelly | that's a rule in general, for other drivers esp. wifi where newer driver may require a newer fw version |
| 17:23.00 | jelly | dunno if i915 does the same thing |
| 17:23.07 | whislock | Jesus. What all can judd reference? |
| 17:23.24 | WS-C246-PRO | so should i go with the 5.x kernel from backports? |
| 17:23.33 | greycat | WS-C246-PRO: it's worth a shot |
| 17:23.42 | jelly | udd, kernel packages, bts, pci.ids, not all of it works correctly |
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| 17:24.30 | WS-C246-PRO | aight, let's see how it goes |
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| 17:25.06 | jelly | WS-C246-PRO: upgrading just the kernel might not be enough; sometimes to make intel gpu fully work, one also needs to upgrade mesa, libdrm and xorg parts of the driver. Right now we're hoping those other bits are maybe good enough in buster. |
| 17:26.42 | jelly | if you have any (other) firmware packages installed, the safest thing is upgrading those to versions from buster-backports and only then reboot |
| 17:27.12 | WS-C246-PRO | yah, i will worry about userspace stuff later.. if i can get it to try to load the card in the i915 module i will be pretty thrilled.. |
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| 17:28.16 | WS-C246-PRO | oh lucky me, not sure if either are the relevant firmwares, but when it updates the grub/initramfs, i get "possible missing firmware for i915:" for icl_dmc_ver1_07.bin and bxt_huc_ver01_8_2893.bin |
| 17:28.25 | WS-C246-PRO | though perhaps i can just find those blobs on the innernerds |
| 17:28.59 | WS-C246-PRO | (i reinstalled ALL of the relevant firmware packages from buster-backports) |
| 17:29.16 | jelly | whislock: oh. telling someone GFY is unacceptable and crosses the line. Curb your language and keep it to technical issues, even if you feel provoked, if something like that happens again you get a 7 days cool down period. |
| 17:29.44 | whislock | jelly: Fair enough. Please also handle mason's inflammatory behavior. |
| 17:29.59 | jelly | whislock: you will not tell me what to do, either. |
| 17:29.59 | WS-C246-PRO | oooooo 5.x is booting with a 4k console |
| 17:30.03 | WS-C246-PRO | that's gotta be a good sign |
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| 17:31.03 | greycat | ,file icl_dmc_ver1_07.bin --release buster-backports |
| 17:31.06 | judd | No packages in buster-backports/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 17:31.13 | greycat | ,file icl_dmc_ver1_07.bin --release sid |
| 17:31.15 | WS-C246-PRO | jackpot |
| 17:31.18 | judd | No packages in sid/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 17:31.19 | WS-C246-PRO | thx guys |
| 17:31.23 | whislock | jelly: If you're going to be an op this channel, at least pretend to be an impartial one. Handle mason's behavior. End of story. |
| 17:31.27 | WS-C246-PRO | i should have figured that out myself, but oh well |
| 17:31.28 | *** part/#debian whislock (~whislock@dax.xsecure.io) |
| 17:31.30 | WS-C246-PRO | much appreciated |
| 17:32.28 | mason | grabs popcorn. |
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| 17:37.35 | WS-C246-PRO | only other thing i needed was to explicitly specify the xorg intel module in xorg.conf and use the buster-backports xorg intel driver for good measure |
| 17:37.45 | WS-C246-PRO | Section "Device" |
| 17:37.46 | WS-C246-PRO | Identifier "Intel Graphics" |
| 17:37.46 | WS-C246-PRO | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:37.46 | WS-C246-PRO | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:37.46 | WS-C246-PRO | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:37.46 | WS-C246-PRO | EndSection |
| 17:37.47 | WS-C246-PRO | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:39.47 | no_gravity | Hello! When I managed to set the right resolutioin via xrandr by adding a new modeline, how do I make that permanenent for when the laptop is connected to the external monitor? |
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| 17:52.07 | jelly | slaps mason on the wrist, they know what they did |
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| 17:52.22 | nyov | I just recently heard of autorandr |
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| 17:53.12 | nyov | ,i autorandr |
| 17:53.14 | judd | Package autorandr (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: Automatically select a display configuration for connected devices. Version: 1.7-1; Size: 20.0k; Installed: 97k; Homepage: https://github.com/phillipberndt/autorandr |
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| 17:55.55 | jelly | thought video-intel was deprecated and video-modesetting (comes by default in xserver-xorg-core) was preferred |
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| 18:04.25 | joepublic | autorandr looks like it could save me some work maintaining these clunky xrandr scripts for my four monitors and the various configurations |
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| 18:05.29 | no_gravity | Wrote down autorandr. Might look into it ... |
| 18:05.31 | no_gravity | is rebooting ... |
| 18:06.16 | EdePopede | i'm about to outsource some directories to a stick (exFAT), but to keep them in their natural habitat i don't tar them but put them into ext4 images of fitting sizes and label them immediately. so creating the fs on the image ends with `-L $label $imagefile`. |
| 18:06.16 | EdePopede | the label can be up to 16 characters as per manpage, the one i just made reaches this limit EXACTLY, before writing it i checked it and the "volume name" has '/mnt' added. at least in the output of file(1). e2label(1) reports the correct label. maybe a string running away? |
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| 18:07.25 | joepublic | aaaand that's a no on autorandr, it leaves my displays misaligned |
| 18:07.42 | sillyslux__ | planet.debian.org search seems broken, i only get results up to 2017 https://planet-search.debian.org/cgi-bin/search.cgi?terms=debian |
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| 18:09.44 | jelly | judd: bug #925882 |
| 18:09.44 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/925882 in www.debian.org (open): «planet.debian.org: search only shows result until 2017, no newer results»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-03-27; last modified: 2019-03-27. |
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| 18:10.52 | sillyslux__ | oic ty |
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| 18:12.35 | jelly | poked #debian-www on oftc anyway |
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| 18:14.15 | B|ack0p | hi |
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| 18:17.14 | oiaohm | jelly: the horribe part is the old intel driver is techically deprecated but modesetting does not support all the older version. |
| 18:17.27 | oiaohm | jelly: so rock and hard place problem. |
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| 18:17.57 | jelly | oiaohm: okay, but 630 is not old, that's what comes with 8th or 9th gen Core i |
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| 18:18.45 | oiaohm | jelly: when mode-setting works with intel graphics in most casts its faster. When it does absolutely no graphical. |
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| 18:19.04 | EdePopede | seems that file(1) looks for a \0 terminated string, while the label appears to be *char[16] at 0x478 followed by '/mnt' (which is odd, since both dd and mkfs were running without the file being mounted) |
| 18:19.17 | oiaohm | jelly: basically it does not go splat in a nice way either. |
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| 18:22.43 | oiaohm | jelly: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Intel_graphics Its also as what is noted here Gen 4 and newer techically supports modesetting. But some programs also have glitches when using modesetting driver as well. |
| 18:23.19 | oiaohm | jelly: yes the old intel driver is techically deprecated but the modesetting driver is not always 100 percent readly for prime time either. |
| 18:23.46 | oiaohm | jelly: rock and hard place problem. No matter what one you choose you are in some form of trouble. |
| 18:23.51 | jelly | I honestly could not say what "faster" was, with intel gpu, happy when it worked |
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| 18:24.35 | oiaohm | Way less tearing with the modesetting driver of intel as well. |
| 18:24.43 | oiaohm | So it does look better most of the time. |
| 18:24.48 | oiaohm | when it works. |
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| 18:25.34 | oiaohm | jelly: I am looking forwards to the day modesetting driver is read and you can say for gen 4 and newer don't bother about the deprecated intel driver just we are not quite there yet. |
| 18:25.51 | oiaohm | jelly: read/ready |
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| 18:26.57 | jelly | hey now let's not be hasty, I have 2nd gen laptop and 3rd gen at work. 4th gen only at home for desktop |
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| 18:32.50 | annadane | yeah, but you're weird |
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| 18:33.30 | B|ack0p | jelly: i have dinosaurus laptop :p |
| 18:34.11 | jelly | B|ack0p: yes ok, not everyone can afford 2012 equipment, sorry |
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| 18:34.34 | B|ack0p | 2007 :p |
| 18:34.54 | B|ack0p | also that s not my oldest one :p |
| 18:34.59 | jelly | but if you want intel gpu that works witthout a lot of trouble, sandybridge is probably minimum |
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| 18:35.23 | nyov | don't feel bad, at least you're more environmentally friendly, using the hardware as long as possible like that |
| 18:35.33 | B|ack0p | well.. |
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| 18:35.52 | B|ack0p | i dont know my what gpu X601s has :p |
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| 18:38.12 | jelly | c2d mobile? probably passable 2D, don't try to use 3D too much, and no idea how old Debian best supported it |
| 18:38.23 | B|ack0p | c2d l7500 |
| 18:38.52 | joepublic | i ran yes|sensors-detect and it made a snarky comment about it |
| 18:39.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1391] by debhelper |
| 18:39.07 | B|ack0p | mobile intel 965 express |
| 18:39.19 | B|ack0p | chipset family |
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| 18:39.26 | oiaohm | jelly: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Intel intel opengl and vulkan support is layed out here. |
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| 18:39.39 | oiaohm | B|ack0p: 965 covers a huge area. |
| 18:40.06 | B|ack0p | it is display adapter what writes in device manager |
| 18:41.25 | jelly | they have a thinkpad X61s motherboard inside the X60 chassis, that's something called "X3100" for graphics apparently, and I stand by "everything older than 2nd gen Core i has so buggy linux drivers you have to be REALLY careful which sw versions and which functionality to use" |
| 18:41.43 | B|ack0p | they or i? :p |
| 18:41.57 | B|ack0p | ah right |
| 18:41.59 | jelly | B|ack0p: by "they" I meant you. |
| 18:42.03 | B|ack0p | intel x1300 or 3100 |
| 18:42.13 | oiaohm | B|ack0p: that driver information is next to useless information because 965 driver is used for gen 4 to current. |
| 18:43.38 | B|ack0p | hmm |
| 18:44.08 | oiaohm | B|ack0p: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_graphics_processing_units#Gen4 you are needing chipset or Processor number |
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| 18:44.27 | B|ack0p | i cant open wikipedia.. |
| 18:44.41 | greycat | you'll want to fix that issue, then |
| 18:44.46 | B|ack0p | http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X61s |
| 18:45.00 | jelly | oiaohm: that's actual i965M, not anything later, they said they had a core2duo L7500, and that tickbox in the OpenGL column doesn't really show how badly it worked |
| 18:45.05 | B|ack0p | Intel Core 2 Duo CPU L7500 @ 1.60 GHz |
| 18:45.13 | B|ack0p | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:46.05 | oiaohm | B|ack0p: that is a gen4 |
| 18:46.11 | B|ack0p | that s my laptop :p |
| 18:46.31 | jelly | had a c2d workstation at work for a while, around debian 7-8 or so, and used a cheap nvidia for compositing instead |
| 18:46.58 | B|ack0p | jelly: do you miss it? :p |
| 18:47.58 | oiaohm | B|ack0p: that opengl 2.0 with opengl es 2.1 and nothing else. Can be quite limiting at times. |
| 18:48.09 | B|ack0p | 2.1 |
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| 18:48.13 | jelly | it was useful for a long time, 8GB DDR2 in it I think, but the cpu became too slow with software bloat |
| 18:48.25 | B|ack0p | yea this one also has 8gb ddr2 |
| 18:48.42 | B|ack0p | i use it as my daily machine now :p |
| 18:48.46 | oiaohm | B|ack0p: sorry I typed the opengl and es number around the wrong way. opengl 2.1 and opengl es 2.0 |
| 18:48.49 | B|ack0p | i also have x40 and x31 |
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| 18:49.29 | B|ack0p | x40 is beautiful machine i love it |
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| 18:50.25 | jelly | yeah okay, that kind of talk is okay for #debian-offtopic or ##ibmthinkpad but you're going to get a "fuckin upgrade" in here |
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| 18:50.58 | B|ack0p | huh |
| 18:51.01 | B|ack0p | O.o |
| 18:51.13 | B|ack0p | not nice a lady talking with f.. words :/ |
| 18:51.17 | oiaohm | and laptops are not like the desktop machines where they get old as long as they are not too old you just drop the cheapest new graphics card in they are good. |
| 18:52.20 | mason | So far even my oldest machines keep up with the demands of urxvt. |
| 18:53.09 | jelly | is not nice |
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| 18:53.22 | B|ack0p | -_- |
| 18:53.50 | oiaohm | mason: depends what version of urxvt there is one with a nice huge memory leak. |
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| 18:54.33 | oiaohm | At some point there need to be a focus on making software that does not leak memory. |
| 18:55.44 | jelly | cries |
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| 18:56.17 | hyarr | hello world |
| 18:56.48 | B|ack0p | hello hiyar |
| 18:56.51 | serverman | hi friend |
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| 18:59.30 | mason | oiaohm: Oh, hrm, I don't remember the leak. I woner if it was before I started using it. I'm probably as memory-hungry as it gets now, with smoothed fonts and a background image. |
| 18:59.35 | mason | wonder* |
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| 19:19.17 | B|ack0p | sleeping? |
| 19:19.54 | annadane | zzzzzzzz |
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| 19:21.31 | B|ack0p | Nikopoulos: hey neighbour |
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| 19:30.46 | JordiGH | wtf man why is my Firefox the only super-crashy Debian firefox |
| 19:31.13 | JordiGH | Look at this: https://crash-stats.mozilla.org/report/index/e8b9919f-6d5f-4a49-8921-d38dc0191217 |
| 19:31.13 | ksk | JordiGH: I have no problems with the firefox in buster |
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| 19:31.26 | JordiGH | Yeah, why do *I* though? |
| 19:31.27 | dvs | Me neither |
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| 19:32.24 | JordiGH | Look at this, six crashes today: https://jordi.platinum.edu.pl/piccies/Screenshot.png |
| 19:32.56 | greycat | I don't *use* firefox very much, but it never crashes for me. Not in recent memory. |
| 19:33.03 | sponix | JordiGH: close ff then: mv .mozilla .mozilla.broken .. re-open ff |
| 19:33.10 | nvz | way I see it, if its the same code, it can only be either user profile/settings, hardware, or what sites you're accessing |
| 19:33.16 | JordiGH | sponix: Still crashes. |
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| 19:33.32 | H2Q | hello, how can I change port when the port is in use? |
| 19:33.53 | greycat | kill whatever process is using it |
| 19:34.01 | H2Q | thing is, I can't |
| 19:34.05 | sponix | nvz: I have this odd thing.. regular ff maxes 1 cpu core 24/7 after its first few hours of use.. FF-esr doesn't do that for me. Same sites, plugins, etc |
| 19:34.07 | greycat | because you're not root? |
| 19:34.11 | H2Q | no I am |
| 19:34.11 | nvz | H2Q: maybe you should provide some context |
| 19:34.22 | greycat | then what leads you to believe you can't kill that process? |
| 19:35.04 | H2Q | nvz, I installed a package on local server, and assigned a port that is different from the current one. |
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| 19:35.26 | nvz | well, thanks for clearing that up :P |
| 19:35.27 | greycat | What package is it, and what do you mean by "assigned a port"? |
| 19:35.37 | H2Q | the installation failed due to this: https://paste.debian.net/plainh/72bcc4c5 |
| 19:35.52 | nvz | I'll come back in an hour when you've got around to some kinda useful information |
| 19:35.59 | sponix | JordiGH: try turning off the hardware optimizations option in ff, see if that helps |
| 19:36.03 | H2Q | I tried kill, netstat, ps commands to kill, but it persists |
| 19:36.10 | JordiGH | So everyone else is super-happy with firefox-esr in Debian? |
| 19:36.11 | greycat | use "lsof -i :4222" or "ss -ant | grep 4222" to see what's using the port, and kill it |
| 19:36.15 | JordiGH | sponix: how do I do that? |
| 19:36.32 | sponix | JordiGH: let me check, but pretty sure it is in the normal preferences |
| 19:36.37 | H2Q | I used lsof as well |
| 19:37.06 | greycat | oops, that needs to be "ss -antp | grep :4222" and it needs to be done as root (just as lsof does) |
| 19:37.11 | JordiGH | Okay, so in performance, I see. |
| 19:37.18 | JordiGH | sponix: Alright, disabled, let me try to trigger a crash... |
| 19:37.18 | sponix | JordiGH: Yeah, in General just look for "Performance" and uncheck "use recommended performance settings for your hardware" |
| 19:37.31 | sponix | JordiGH: you will need to restart ff itself for that to take effect |
| 19:37.50 | JordiGH | Oh, restarting Firefox: I'm a pro at this. |
| 19:38.01 | greycat | H2Q: ss or lsof doesn't kill anything; it just tells you what's listening (bound) on that port, so that you can take action by hand |
| 19:38.50 | H2Q | yes, I mean that, too. I viewed the ports and then tried to kill, but didnt work. didn't try with 'ss' though |
| 19:39.52 | nevivurn | H2Q: What is it that you're trying to run, and what is already running on that port? |
| 19:40.12 | dvs | nevivurn, we're still trying to determine that. |
| 19:40.14 | nevivurn | lsof and ss just check which process is bound to certain ports, so it won't make a difference there. |
| 19:40.29 | H2Q | ok, so how can I kill it? |
| 19:40.43 | greycat | once you know the process ID, you kill that PID |
| 19:40.46 | H2Q | the package that I try to install is shown as running on that port |
| 19:41.08 | greycat | But most importantly, you THINK. What program is using this port? Why is it using that port? Why am I installing a thing that tries to use a port that someone else is using? |
| 19:41.19 | H2Q | yes, 'kill <pid>' |
| 19:41.33 | JordiGH | sponix: Huh, disabling hardware accel and I can't repro with my usual repro. |
| 19:41.36 | JordiGH | Maybe this "fixed" it? |
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| 19:42.12 | H2Q | that someone is shown as the very package that I try to install |
| 19:42.39 | H2Q | how can I change port? I mean, which file should I locate and edit? |
| 19:42.49 | nevivurn | Depends on the software. Tell us what you're trying to run / install. |
| 19:42.51 | greycat | Is it already installed, and you're trying to upgrade it? Is there an upstream version of it installed in /opt or /usr/local? |
| 19:43.07 | greycat | H2Q: that would depend on the program. Every one is unique. |
| 19:43.20 | sponix | JordiGH: of course it did ;) |
| 19:44.00 | H2Q | no, the package is in neither of these folders. I unpacked it and placed it under /var/www/html |
| 19:44.21 | H2Q | and then ran the install command, which returned the above error |
| 19:45.00 | seere_ | H2Q: kill <PID> just sends a SIGTERM, which can be ignored by the process. The hard way would be "kill -9 <pid>" to send SIGKILL |
| 19:45.32 | H2Q | kill -9 is not recommended, as I just read? |
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| 19:45.49 | seere | H2Q: depends. |
| 19:46.34 | H2Q | ok, kill -9 just removed the busy ports from the list. |
| 19:46.49 | H2Q | now the installation started properly |
| 19:46.55 | H2Q | thank you seere |
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| 19:49.21 | JordiGH | sponix: I wonder how much "slower" firefox is going to be now. |
| 19:49.59 | sponix | JordiGH: sure it performs better than not at all |
| 19:50.41 | sponix | JordiGH: penalty is a little more load on your CPU vs GPU I would suspect. So, as long as you are good in that department, shouldn't be too terrible of an experience |
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| 19:50.47 | greycat | H2Q: oh, so this wasn't a Debian package *at all*. That explains the unusual error message format. |
| 19:50.57 | JordiGH | >_> |
| 19:51.04 | JordiGH | We'll see if this works. |
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| 19:51.08 | sponix | JordiGH: Go try some 4K YouTube playback or something (Linus Tech Tips has high res stuff) |
| 19:51.08 | H2Q | the installation completed, however I keep getting this error, even though I edited the respective file; https://paste.debian.net/plainh/c9e8b0bf |
| 19:51.10 | JordiGH | I've been having a bad time: https://jordi.platinum.edu.pl/tmp/crash-ids.html |
| 19:51.52 | H2Q | I edited /etc/security/limits.conf and added two lines with a higher limit |
| 19:51.57 | nvz | H2Q: thats not an error, its a warning, and it has the proposed solution in the message |
| 19:52.20 | H2Q | but why did I still get it after altering the file? |
| 19:52.28 | JordiGH | sponix: I guess it does peg my CPU. |
| 19:52.36 | JordiGH | But I can't remember if it always did that. |
| 19:52.41 | greycat | probably because /etc/security/limits.conf has no effect at all on daemons/services. |
| 19:52.47 | nvz | there are essentially 3 types of messages a program gives.. notice, warning, error.. people tend to get them confused.. but they are not the same |
| 19:52.58 | H2Q | that was the file referred to |
| 19:53.07 | sponix | JordiGH: when in doubt, toss more hardware at your software problems ! |
| 19:53.08 | H2Q | in online posts |
| 19:53.08 | greycat | nor does it have any effect on already-running processes like your shell, unless you log out and back in |
| 19:53.38 | sponix | JordiGH: My 10 core Xeon with 32GB of ram -- Runs Firefox-esr just fine - lol |
| 19:53.56 | H2Q | can the fact that the browser gave this error have to do with the above limit warning; https://paste.debian.net/plainh/c9e8b0bf ? |
| 19:54.48 | nvz | H2Q: thats the same link you just posted, with a warning, not an error |
| 19:54.59 | H2Q | ah sorry |
| 19:55.17 | nvz | and as I said before, that warning tells you EXACTLY what to do to fix it |
| 19:55.19 | H2Q | this one; https://paste.debian.net/plainh/1121437 |
| 19:55.44 | H2Q | nvz, yes, I tried it maybe three four times, didnt help |
| 19:55.44 | nvz | https://paste.debian.net/plain/1121437 |
| 19:56.00 | H2Q | ah yes, thanks |
| 19:56.30 | nvz | H2Q: change the url to http:// from https:// you are attempting to make a secure connection to a site without a valid SSL certificate |
| 19:57.00 | H2Q | nvz, the installation asked me about it, and I chose one of the cert options |
| 19:57.16 | nvz | yes well you apparently don't know much about certificates and browsers.. |
| 19:57.16 | H2Q | and I tried http, too |
| 19:57.36 | H2Q | otherwise I wouldn't be asking, right? |
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| 19:57.43 | nvz | a certificate that most modern browsers will accept, isnt just something you just select the option to have |
| 19:58.13 | nvz | you have to have the cert signed and verified for most browsers to be happy and for this you need a fully qualified domain name that a 3rd party can verify |
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| 19:58.32 | nvz | or you need to just learn how to tell your browser to STFU and ignore it |
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| 19:58.54 | H2Q | the installation had me select localhost and then offered let's encrypt |
| 19:59.21 | nvz | yeah well that could at most only be a self-signed cert |
| 19:59.32 | jhutchins_wk | H2Q: What is it you're trying to install? |
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| 20:00.06 | H2Q | nvz, as someone who saw I didn't know, you can imagine I don't know what STFU is |
| 20:00.15 | nvz | we're so far down some kinda hole here.. we're not gonna know what kinda hole it is unless something bites us |
| 20:00.25 | nvz | dpkg, stfu? |
| 20:00.25 | dpkg | hmm... stfu is Shut The Fuck Up |
| 20:01.07 | nvz | all I know at this point is, you're trying to get us to support something not in debian and have given us absolutely no inforamtion of use |
| 20:01.45 | nvz | I suggest backing all the way up to before you had the idea to install whatever this is, and tell us what you're trying to do |
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| 20:02.09 | H2Q | this is supposed to be a local installation, and all options were available for it. |
| 20:02.17 | nvz | or go get support from whoever made this thing.. |
| 20:02.20 | H2Q | local, without a web domain name, that is |
| 20:02.56 | nvz | yeah well unless you got some serious issues on your system, you don't need SSL for something you connect to via your loopback |
| 20:03.17 | H2Q | ok, so maybe I should select http during the install? |
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| 20:03.38 | nvz | thats what I'd do if I were only accessing it from the machine its running on via a loopback interface |
| 20:04.02 | nvz | cause you're not gonna get a valid, signed, verfied cert for your loopback interface |
| 20:04.14 | H2Q | how about when I want to access it from another device in the same network? |
| 20:04.14 | nvz | that any browser is going to happily accept |
| 20:04.35 | nvz | if you're talking a home network you trust, I say the same thing |
| 20:04.47 | H2Q | right |
| 20:04.55 | karlpinc | H2Q: On a home network, just use http. |
| 20:05.03 | nvz | unless there is some actual risk to someone on the network intercepting sensitive data, then there is no point in bothering with ssl |
| 20:05.59 | nvz | but you still have told us absolutely nothing about what you're doing so our advice is going to be as vague and ill informed as we are |
| 20:07.09 | H2Q | I am asked to choose a TLS activation mode, and one option is to disable TLS, with the warning 'staging environments only, never recommended!'...should I choose this one still? |
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| 20:07.59 | ksk | what was said applys. no real downsides by having ssl of course - apart from additional cpu requirements and work getting it setup.. |
| 20:08.07 | ksk | applies. |
| 20:08.10 | nvz | H2Q: if I had the ability I'd kick you out of here right now.. cause you just keep on asking questions without providing any useful information.. and you've already been given all the vague advice we can give |
| 20:08.34 | H2Q | nvz, this is no reason to kick someone out. |
| 20:09.00 | karlpinc | H2Q: Probably not. But it is a reason for people to ignore you. |
| 20:09.02 | nvz | sure it is.. we have a topic, a scope, and we're all volunteers.. users.. of debian.. here to support debian issues. |
| 20:09.14 | H2Q | if you're pissed, feel free to withdraw or ignore, as he said |
| 20:09.16 | H2Q | or she |
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| 20:10.55 | H2Q | besides, I gave you all the info that was relevant. what would it help you to know whether I am installing some exotic software from provider x or y? |
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| 20:11.04 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 20:11.29 | dvs | ...and the help stops |
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| 20:12.32 | H2Q | proof: with all the info I gave, problem solved. using http solved it. FYI |
| 20:12.54 | H2Q | keep gripping your rough edges tight, some of you here |
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| 20:13.38 | nvz | the point was we told you that already.. and you're still rambling on about what, I have no idea |
| 20:14.31 | nvz | if you'd just happily took the advice not to use SSL and went about your business, there was no harm.. but continuing to engage and want more detailed support.. thats harmful to this community.. cause we have no idea what we are supporting or what the intended use case even is |
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| 21:23.15 | hesco | . |
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| 21:23.36 | B|ack0p | .. |
| 21:24.32 | hesco | I seem unable to /join #netfilter. where is it I can get support for an iptables issue? |
| 21:26.27 | greycat | Perhaps that channel requires you to register with nickserv. |
| 21:26.55 | annadane | hesco, um, here? if you're using debian |
| 21:27.20 | hesco | I am. My issue is outlined here: https://gist.github.com/hesco/99be0bd618940d93ffffc518d4f3343b |
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| 21:39.27 | muhaha | how can I get pci device of eth interface? |
| 21:40.03 | greycat | lspci might be a good start |
| 21:40.25 | greycat | to be honest, though, I don't understand what you're actually looking for |
| 21:42.51 | muhaha | I have multiple NICs and I dont know which one is which |
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| 22:00.38 | somiaj | dmesg should say what interface name is assigned to what physical device, this is easier if they use different modules |
| 22:01.05 | somiaj | though if you use the systemd naming, it should tell you what slot the device is in |
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| 22:01.47 | JordiGH | sponix: Firefox crashed again. |
| 22:02.17 | JordiGH | Same stack trace: https://crash-stats.mozilla.org/report/index/771fea10-5991-4d4b-bc31-f39300191217 |
| 22:02.25 | JordiGH | Sooooo, disabling hardware accel did nothing. |
| 22:02.32 | JordiGH | I'll put it back on. |
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| 22:03.30 | JordiGH | Sigh, I guess I'll try whining in the Debian bugtracker, but since apparently I'm the only person this is happening to, I don't think it'll do any good. |
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| 22:25.54 | nvz | I'd debug my profile/settings try with a clean profile |
| 22:26.21 | nvz | and keep in mind what kind of sites I'm visiting when it happens to see if there is any commonality there |
| 22:26.45 | nvz | I use chromium day to day, I only use firefox-esr for netflix |
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| 22:35.04 | somiaj | I belive they have done most of that, seems to be something strange on their system. |
| 22:35.36 | war9407 | I'm running Debian testing and over the past 3-4 weeks, I'm seeing very large PID numbers - 2187917 - was there some sort of change that would cause this? |
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| 22:36.48 | mutantturkey | i am using reprepro to distribute custom packages to a few of our servers. Hoewver, I am running into a "signatures are invalid" when doing apt-get update on those boxes. Is there a way to manually verify the signatures to figure out what step i am doing things wrong? |
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| 22:37.15 | mutantturkey | I did add the key that I am using |
| 22:38.41 | somiaj | !debian-next |
| 22:38.41 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 22:38.44 | somiaj | war9407: ^^ |
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| 22:39.14 | war9407 | thx |
| 22:41.03 | somiaj | mutantturkey: google gave me this, unsure if it is your problem or not https://askubuntu.com/questions/1039810/private-repo-the-following-signatures-were-invalid |
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| 22:59.48 | mutantturkey | tracking it down towards |
| 22:59.59 | mutantturkey | newer debian supports newer keys |
| 23:00.06 | mutantturkey | so i think i just need to upgrade my keys i am using to sign the repo |
| 23:01.19 | somiaj | also there is a lot of push to not accept older weak keys |
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| 23:23.44 | mutantturkey | yes |
| 23:23.46 | mutantturkey | this solves the problem. |
| 23:23.48 | mutantturkey | thanks all |
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