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| 05:50.17 | *** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.2 point release /msg dpkg 10.2; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch; /msg dpkg 9.11; 9.11 needs dist-upgrade | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 05:50.44 | ryouma | is there an apt-mark showmanual-oh-and-also-show-stuff-that-was-installed-forever-ago-like-basicallly-core-stuff-oh-and-whatever-changes-occurred-since-then-in-various-dist-upgrades-kthkxbye? |
| 05:51.25 | annadane | ryouma, not really but it should be decently trivial to decide what you want or not |
| 05:52.15 | ryouma | dunno, i have a lot of packages despite having just fluxbox |
| 05:52.17 | tomreyn | https://askubuntu.com/questions/2389/generating-list-of-manually-installed-packages-and-querying-individual-packages |
| 05:52.21 | annadane | i know there's like, deborphan for removal of really old stuff from previous dist-upgrades? |
| 05:53.03 | ryouma | yeah i use that |
| 05:53.47 | ryouma | apt-get -o "Apt::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant=false" purge `aptitude search ~c | db wsv2o` `deborphan ${1:+--guess-all}` |
| 05:54.11 | ryouma | really helps |
| 05:54.58 | ryouma | although right now it is telling me to remove " libasound2-plugins Use 'apt autoremove' to remove it." but apt autoremove does not do so. |
| 05:57.57 | tomreyn | apt --purge autoremove |
| 05:58.10 | tomreyn | oops, sorry, wrong window |
| 05:58.41 | ryouma | i figured out that i have to supply the packatge name |
| 05:58.59 | ryouma | also i found out that apt assumes that youa re not running in emacs shell mode |
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| 06:00.25 | Randolf | tomreyn: Thanks, the "dd" tool was there, fortunately, so I was able to get the drives cleared and get RAID1 configured. The prompts are confusing, but I think I got it all working and with LVM now. Thanks! |
| 06:02.39 | tomreyn | Randolf: you can also manually install some software from the shell prompt of a running debian-installer system, but you'd need to know the path to the package and be able to use it on a command line. parted it available, for example. |
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| 06:03.37 | Randolf | Thanks tomreyn. The problem is that a previous attempted installation occurred with the on-board RAID controller, which I just found out is not a real RAID controller. |
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| 06:10.37 | Randolf | tomreyn: GRUB fails to install with a fatal error. |
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| 06:24.49 | annadane | is links/links2/lynx the same? |
| 06:25.08 | Randolf | annadane: No, they're different programs. |
| 06:28.52 | annadane | oh i see, links2 has "graphical support" that links doesn't |
| 06:29.04 | annadane | and lynx is a "web client" and not "web browser", whatever that means |
| 06:29.45 | Randolf | Lynx is also a web browser. |
| 06:30.22 | Randolf | Lynx works in text mode, just like Links does. No graphics, and each take different approaches to rendering web pages on text-only screens. |
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| 06:35.55 | Randolf | Each has its advantages and disadvantages, so I find it's good to have both available. |
| 06:39.00 | annadane | i've kind of always lazily just used elinks |
| 06:39.10 | ryouma | lynx can do some kind of parsing and grabbing urls for scripts |
| 06:39.17 | ryouma | at least i used it once for that |
| 06:39.27 | Randolf | Cool! |
| 06:39.31 | ryouma | for text i use emacs |
| 06:40.52 | Randolf | Well, GRUB installs successfully when I don't use any RAID at all. It looks like the RAID installation b0rks the GRUB installer, so I'd say it's not ready for production use at this point. |
| 06:41.23 | Randolf | I'm going to just have to use the second drive as a backup copy with rsync maintaining it like a mirror. |
| 06:41.51 | Randolf | It's a shame. This box comes with a RAID option, but it's software RAID that isn't available on Debian. |
| 06:43.18 | ryouma | that is an old problem with linux |
| 06:43.46 | ryouma | i found htat rsync was better than mdraid anyway |
| 06:43.58 | ryouma | it was just annoying dealing with mdraid |
| 06:44.11 | ryouma | (raid 1 though) |
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| 06:45.56 | Randolf | What happened to the "ifconfig" command? |
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| 06:47.04 | nvz | Randolf: its deprecated, but you can install it if you like |
| 06:47.18 | nvz | ,file bin/ifconfig |
| 06:47.25 | judd | Search for bin/ifconfig in buster/amd64: net-tools: sbin/ifconfig |
| 06:47.37 | Randolf | nvz: Which package is it in? When I use "apt search ifconfig" I get a list of about a dozen packages. |
| 06:47.48 | Randolf | Oh, net-tools is there. |
| 06:48.01 | Randolf | There we go, that fixed it. Thanks! |
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| 06:48.32 | nvz | I'd lecture you about learning to use ip, but I don't know how to use it either :P |
| 06:48.39 | ryouma | nor i |
| 06:48.48 | ryouma | and i use cron |
| 06:48.56 | nvz | I know 'ip a' thats about it |
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| 06:53.59 | Randolf | I'm eventually going to be converting all my Ubuntu Server installations to Debian because I hate NetPlan. |
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| 06:55.13 | Randolf | For regular end-user workstations, Ubuntu Desktop is fine. Although, I do find the Debian colour scheme in the GUI to be a lot more to my liking (plus it looks more suitable for a corporate environment). |
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| 06:56.17 | nvz | doesn't know what NetPlan is, but ubuntu sucks :P |
| 06:57.26 | Randolf | NetPlan is the abomination that replaces ifupdown, and it's forced on all Ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu Server users nowadays. It holds all the configuration settings in a YAML file, and it has some problems with IPv6 support. |
| 06:58.01 | Randolf | I have a set of instructions that I follow to install ifupdown on Ubuntu and then remove NetPlan. This makes life a lot easier for system administration. |
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| 06:59.19 | nvz | well I /do/ like yaml :P |
| 06:59.55 | Randolf | Oh yeah, I have no complaints about YAML. I just don't like it for configuring network interfaces, bridging, VPNs, routing, and all that good stuff. |
| 07:00.31 | Randolf | Of course, it could have been worse -- they could have used XML. |
| 07:02.09 | Randolf | One of the things I really love about Unix and Linux is that simple text files, which are nearly all stored under the /etc/ directory, are used to configure everything. No central Windows Registry that is a complete and utter mess to deal with that sometimes changes mysteriously. It just works, and it works consistently and reliably, which is how computers should be. |
| 07:02.33 | nvz | Randolf: so in other words, you're new? |
| 07:02.36 | Randolf | Heck, even WINE stores all the Windows Registry stuff in plain ASCII text files. This makes it extremely easy to edit. |
| 07:03.57 | nvz | Randolf: apparently you never heard of things like gconf, dconf, gsettings.. |
| 07:04.09 | Randolf | nvz: I'm new to Debian. I've been using Ubuntu for about a year or so after Windows 10 repeatedly b0rked itself into blue screens (my only regret was not switching to Ubuntu earlier because everything works so much faster, including Adobe Photoshop that loads in under 10 seconds in Linux vs. ~5 minutes in Windows, and web browsers with hundreds of tabs re-opening at start that takes less than 1 second in Linux vs. 2-3 minutes in Windows). |
| 07:04.26 | nvz | looks very much like the windows registry, just more organized and easy to understand |
| 07:04.46 | Randolf | nvz: Before Linux, I've been using NetBSD for somewhere in the ballpark of 15-20 years. Before that, it was Novell NetWare. |
| 07:04.59 | Randolf | I've actually heard of those tools, but I haven't used them. |
| 07:05.56 | Randolf | I prefer FAR Manager / Midnight Commander, which make it so easy for me to manage configuration files, administer the file system, and so much more. Command-line stuff is good for me too as I type ~140 WPM. |
| 07:06.01 | nvz | they store their settings in a large binary file and the tools look an aweful lot like regedit |
| 07:06.44 | Randolf | On servers I've not encountered that, but the servers I set up (NetBSD, Ubuntu Server, Debian) don't have any GUI -- it's all text-only because a GUI simply isn't needed. |
| 07:06.54 | Randolf | Perhaps those are GUI-specific tools? |
| 07:07.20 | nvz | they are used by gui stuffs.. |
| 07:08.29 | Randolf | Ah, okay. Yeah, I do very little with the GUI. Where I use the GUI most is on my laptop, but mostly use FAR Manager for everything. GNOME's File Manager is awful. |
| 07:08.58 | Randolf | Well, it's not awful, it's just too simple. |
| 07:09.25 | nvz | s/'s File Manager// |
| 07:09.28 | Randolf | The "Explorer" on Windows is awful, and too complicated. |
| 07:09.35 | Randolf | Ha! |
| 07:09.46 | Randolf | You've got a Perl RegEx background too, eh? |
| 07:09.53 | nvz | nope |
| 07:10.04 | Randolf | Well, RegEx at least then. |
| 07:10.53 | nvz | I've been using and supporting Debian for nearly 20 years, got the CompTIA Linux+ twice, cause someone else was payin.. |
| 07:11.14 | nvz | PCRE, BRE, etc are just tools of the trade |
| 07:11.18 | Randolf | Nice! |
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| 07:11.40 | Randolf | Do the CompTIA certs expire? |
| 07:12.09 | nvz | idk.. new ones come out.. I dont pay any attention, those sorts of things are just paper to me |
| 07:12.24 | Randolf | Yeah, that's why it's best to only go for it if others pay for it. |
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| 07:12.36 | nvz | I got it in 2008 and then CompTIA contacted me to help them with the new 2009 cert they were drafting, and I got that one for free too |
| 07:13.03 | nvz | theirs is based on SLES which I've never used |
| 07:13.30 | nvz | I'm not even sure what it stands for :P |
| 07:13.36 | nvz | dpkg, SLES? |
| 07:13.37 | dpkg | wish i knew, nvz |
| 07:13.43 | nvz | yeah, that makes one of us |
| 07:13.57 | nvz | Suse Linux Enterprise Server would be my guess |
| 07:14.05 | BazookaTooth | comptia certs expire every 3 years. you have to either get a higher cert or do cpe courses. waste of money |
| 07:14.06 | Randolf | I have a CNA which is a Certified NetWare Administrator certificate. I was tested on NetWare 3.11. It didn't expire, but then Novell tried to retroactively change that so that it does expire (they started doing that after Microsoft started retroactively expiring their certs), so I told their legal department that I reject their retroactive change. After some back-and-forth they decided to not do the retroactive expiries. |
| 07:14.14 | auscompgeek | nvz: that sounds about right |
| 07:15.15 | Randolf | What would happen if a Ph.D. was to expire? Those who worked hard to earn their degrees would scream bloody murder. I feel that computer technicians were stupid not to scream bloody murder when certs were starting to expire -- to me, they're not worth anything if they expire. |
| 07:15.48 | Randolf | Add the year to the post-nomials if you have to, but if they're going to expire then they're not worth even 1/10 of what they're selling them for. |
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| 07:45.44 | inerkick | Hi. I want to change my icons in the desktop as well as browser. Somehow I tried typecatcher as well as https://wiki.debian.org/Fonts but it's not working. Kindly hlep |
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| 08:12.49 | LACampbell | I have an issue where sound plays for a second or two then switches off. all the alsamixer levels remain stable. alsamixer reports a soundcard is there. any ideas at all? |
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| 08:15.01 | RandolfR | LACampbell: Do you have multiple speakers? Check your "Sound" settings to make sure that you're set to use the correct Output device. |
| 08:16.13 | LACampbell | RandolfR: all output devices are unmuted. and the sound does play for a second, then sometimes pipes up again |
| 08:16.21 | LACampbell | though it looks like a deep kernel issue |
| 08:16.29 | LACampbell | https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/0bea4cc8383519f78f3f74caca7bdebdfb346d3b |
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| 08:26.28 | RandolfR | LACampbell: Well, at least the basics are covered. Hopefully the issue will be fixed soon. |
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| 08:46.52 | LACampbell | https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/0bea4cc8383519f78f3f74caca7bdebdfb346d3b |
| 08:46.59 | LACampbell | whoops sorry wrong window |
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