| 00:00.52 | TechSmurf | How likely am I to regret installing jessie libc6 on a wheezy system? |
| 00:01.33 | b1ack0p | i better sleep |
| 00:04.07 | ksk | TechSmurf: dont do that. everything depends on libc, you will break your system. |
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| 00:04.56 | ksk | wheezy is totally end of support btw, why not upgrade (like three releases..) |
| 00:07.00 | TechSmurf | I'm keenly aware |
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| 00:07.44 | TechSmurf | Frankly if I could have kept the offending software which is suddenly demanding glibc 2.14 from auto-upgrading, I would have. |
| 00:08.45 | ksk | If the software did not update you would update your OS? I cannot follow |
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| 00:09.13 | TechSmurf | No, I simply wouldn't have a problem :P |
| 00:09.50 | ksk | can only hope the box is not internet-connected :/ |
| 00:10.13 | TechSmurf | certainly not internet-visible |
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| 00:11.41 | TechSmurf | dist-upgrade will break other parts... guess it's time to start chasing dependency hell. |
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| 00:14.28 | moistmoskito | looking for a package containing glslangvalidator so i can build d9vk |
| 00:14.46 | moistmoskito | google search did not return any hits relevent |
| 00:14.50 | ksk | ,file glslangvalidator |
| 00:14.55 | judd | Search for glslangvalidator in buster/amd64: glslang-tools: usr/bin/glslangValidator |
| 00:15.13 | *** part/#debian TechSmurf (~tech@unaffiliated/techsmurf) |
| 00:15.16 | moistmoskito | oh so i can just ,file and a command and it will feed me the package in futture? |
| 00:15.30 | ksk | seems so ;) |
| 00:15.39 | sponix | ,file ntop |
| 00:15.45 | judd | Search for ntop in buster/amd64: xen-utils-common: usr/sbin/xentop; sntop: usr/bin/sntop; radeontop: usr/sbin/radeontop; gnulib: usr/share/gnulib/modules/inet_ntop; xen-utils-4.11: usr/lib/xen-4.11/bin/xentop |
| 00:16.03 | moistmoskito | thats friggin useful |
| 00:16.07 | moistmoskito | !next |
| 00:16.08 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
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| 00:17.41 | jim | so if he leaves the building without leaving the building, is he really happy? |
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| 00:41.46 | mi11k1 | anybody have experience with kvm/qemu passthrough pci device? |
| 00:43.04 | petn-randall | mi11k1: Probably a few people. That's why it's better to ask your real question. |
| 00:45.21 | Chex | mi11k1: funny, I am about to replace my home VGA Belkin KVM switch with something new, myself |
| 00:45.43 | Chex | trying to decide what is best for my needs |
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| 00:47.22 | glick | hi foks |
| 00:47.25 | glick | folks |
| 00:47.44 | glick | question, since ecryptfs appears to have been deprecated, whats the recommended way to encrypt my home directory now? |
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| 00:49.14 | pitchplease | glick: see man cryptsetup, especially LUKS Extension. |
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| 00:49.34 | skdm | debian is so debian |
| 00:49.55 | skdm | i tried to troubleshoot my system hanging at boot |
| 00:50.10 | skdm | turned out it was missing a package |
| 00:50.30 | petn-randall | ... and what makes that Debian? |
| 00:51.50 | glick | pitchplease: so basically LUKS? |
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| 00:51.55 | glick | which means a reinstall? |
| 00:52.01 | skdm | "fancy" dependencies |
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| 00:54.22 | Thedarkb | Happily running debian |
| 00:54.49 | dvs | so was it the firmware? |
| 00:54.57 | pitchplease | glick: Yes Luks. you can avoid a reinstall: create your new home partition, cryptsetup luksCreate, create whatever FS-partition inside, update /etc/fstab /etc/crypttab accordingly and move your homedirectory on the new partition inside the Luks |
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| 00:56.36 | petn-randall | pitchplease: That requires a lot of unallocated disk space, which is quite unlikely to happen to lie around. |
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| 00:56.41 | skdm | in debian, cryptsetup depends on udev rules which are installed by a package it doesn't depend on |
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| 00:56.58 | petn-randall | skdm: that would be a RC bug. |
| 00:57.18 | petn-randall | skdm: Which package should it depend on? |
| 00:57.26 | skdm | dm-setup |
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| 00:58.33 | petn-randall | skdm: That package doesn't exist. |
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| 00:58.57 | skdm | oh withot hyphen then |
| 00:58.58 | petn-randall | Oh, |
| 00:59.03 | petn-randall | maybe you mean .. yeah |
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| 01:02.56 | petn-randall | skdm: If I try to remove dmsetup, it also remove cryptsetup, so there's a dependency alright. Tested on both stable and testing. |
| 01:03.08 | petn-randall | So your issue must have been more grave. |
| 01:04.27 | skdm | when cryptsetup is installed, it doesn't install dmsetup |
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| 01:06.05 | petn-randall | skdm: As I said cryptsetup -> cryptsetup-run -> dmsetup. The dependency is there. |
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| 01:06.32 | petn-randall | skdm: What Debian release are you running? |
| 01:07.02 | skdm | sid |
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| 01:07.23 | petn-randall | skdm: cryptsetup directly depends on dmsetup in sid. |
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| 01:07.43 | petn-randall | https://packages.debian.org/sid/cryptsetup |
| 01:08.31 | petn-randall | ,depends cryptsetup --release sid |
| 01:08.32 | judd | Package cryptsetup in sid/amd64 -- depends: cryptsetup-bin (>= 2:1.6.0), dmsetup, debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, libc6 (>= 2.15). |
| 01:08.44 | skdm | that's weird |
| 01:08.58 | petn-randall | skdm: Maybe you removed it with `dpkg -P dmsetup`? |
| 01:09.08 | petn-randall | Or have a mix of different releases? |
| 01:09.13 | skdm | gonna check the log |
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| 01:23.09 | skdm | it's weird, the udev rules were created when dmsetup was updated |
| 01:23.41 | skdm | it was installed before but somehow missed them? |
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| 01:46.38 | festerjester | After some research, I managed to get a standard working debootstrap install of buster. Now I am trying to slim it down as much as possible. I cannot get the --variant=minbase option working though. |
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| 01:48.02 | festerjester | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:48.14 | festerjester | Any ideas? |
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| 01:48.38 | petn-randall | festerjester: You need to install an init system if you want to boot from it. |
| 01:49.10 | festerjester | guessing that would be 'apt-get install init' ? |
| 01:49.32 | festerjester | Cause that show as installed |
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| 02:02.12 | karlpinc | festerjester: How did you install? |
| 02:02.29 | karlpinc | (It's pretty hard to install without getting an init system installed.) |
| 02:03.33 | willnotsay | Hola. I run Buster, and when I started my machine today it does not boot "Unable to find volume group X" - I did boot a grml and checked everything is there, but I dont really understand why its not booting, nor can I even make the busybox show me anything lvm related. |
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| 02:05.17 | willnotsay | could you guide me on how to manually check for stuff? I would expect to have something in /dev/mapper/ for example, but apart from a file "control" there is nothing |
| 02:05.19 | karlpinc | willnotsay: Is there any info in the logs? |
| 02:05.25 | festerjester | @petn-randal: Thank you! I realized after a while, I had mounted and chrooted into the wrong installation. |
| 02:06.02 | karlpinc | willnotsay: It booted before and now it won't. Did anything change? |
| 02:06.51 | festerjester | karlpinc: Figured out init was not installed during debootstrap --variant=minbase |
| 02:07.12 | karlpinc | festerjester: Ah. That'd be about the only way to get your problem. |
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| 02:08.00 | petn-randall | festerjester: petn<tab> |
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| 02:08.50 | willnotsay | nothing I can think of unfortunately. also, I dont think there are any logs when you get thrown into the busybox? the bootup looks normal from what I can tell, until the message I posted |
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| 02:09.26 | karlpinc | willnotsay: You have your root fs on lvm? |
| 02:09.27 | petn-randall | willnotsay: Did you rename the volume group? |
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| 02:09.56 | petn-randall | Because that's how I got that issue just three weeks ago. :) |
| 02:09.59 | willnotsay | yes, and no. |
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| 02:10.43 | petn-randall | willnotsay: Did you remove any packages since the last time it worked? Are you also using LUKS? |
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| 02:11.36 | firespeaker | anyone else having random crashes of chromium on unstable? |
| 02:11.54 | willnotsay | I did nothing I can remember, but the machine had quite the uptime before :/ no, not using luks |
| 02:11.58 | willnotsay | !debian-next |
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| 02:13.23 | karlpinc | willnotsay: Do you have the debian-netinstall handy? You can use that to go into a chrooted environment of the installed system. |
| 02:13.31 | karlpinc | (Or any debian install media.) |
| 02:13.53 | petn-randall | firespeaker: It's a known bug, check the BTS. |
| 02:14.03 | karlpinc | !rescue mode |
| 02:14.03 | dpkg | Debian-Installer has a recovery ('rescue') mode, which can be used to reinstall the GRUB or LILO boot loaders. See section 8.7 of the <install guide> ("Recovering a Broken System") for more details: https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/amd64/ch08s07.html.en |
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| 02:14.54 | karlpinc | willnotsay: Can you "vgchange -ay" in busybox? |
| 02:15.10 | willnotsay | As I said I booted a grml (thats what I have lying around) and there I can vgchange -ay and find everything like it should be. |
| 02:15.37 | karlpinc | willnotsay: Sounds like your initramfs is broken. |
| 02:15.41 | willnotsay | yes I can, but as said, only "control" shows up in mapper |
| 02:15.48 | firespeaker | petn-randall: ah, some googling turned up something similar two years ago in ubuntu, but I hadn't seen this |
| 02:15.57 | petn-randall | !bts |
| 02:15.57 | firespeaker | wow, it's been around for over a month |
| 02:15.57 | willnotsay | (totally no offense, appreatiate the help..) |
| 02:15.58 | dpkg | Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, http://bugs.debian.org/ or to go directly to the bug page for a particular package/bug, try http://bugs.debian.org/packagename or http://bugs.debian.org/bugnumber . aptitude install reportbug, and check out <querybts> too. Users of unstable and testing are required to check the BTS. See also <apt-listbugs>, <reportbug>. http://wiki.debian.org/HowtoUseBTS |
| 02:16.02 | petn-randall | firespeaker: ^^^ |
| 02:16.02 | firespeaker | thanks petn-randall |
| 02:16.09 | firespeaker | petn-randall: yeah I'm already reading the comments |
| 02:16.11 | firespeaker | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=945920 |
| 02:16.11 | petn-randall | firespeaker: The bug is from last month, in Debian. |
| 02:16.11 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/945920 in chromium (open, confirmed): «Chromium randomly crashes in the latest version.»; severity: grave; opened: 2019-12-01; last modified: 2020-01-04. |
| 02:16.18 | firespeaker | petn-randall: I just said that :-P |
| 02:16.18 | petn-randall | Yeah, that one. |
| 02:16.26 | un214 | vgchange isn't in busybox in buster |
| 02:16.51 | petn-randall | It should be in the initramfs, though. |
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| 02:17.04 | firespeaker | chrome: // flags "Override software rendering list" change to "enable". |
| 02:17.17 | firespeaker | ah, similar to some of the workarounds for the similar issue on ubuntu |
| 02:17.20 | firespeaker | tries it |
| 02:17.31 | petn-randall | It didn't work for me. :/ |
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| 02:18.05 | karlpinc | willnotsay: When you boot with grml does dmesg report any problems seeing the disks? (or the boot logs) |
| 02:18.53 | un214 | I unpacked my initramfs and it's not in that busybox either |
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| 02:19.12 | willnotsay | mhm not that I recall. I did mount my root partion in grml for testing though - so it should be fine? |
| 02:19.24 | karlpinc | willnotsay: After vgchange -ay and lvchange -ay you should see /dev/VGNAME/LVNAME. |
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| 02:20.27 | willnotsay | mhm, there is no lvchange it seems. |
| 02:20.47 | karlpinc | willnotsay: Once you've mounted your root partition you should be able to chroot into it and then run "update-initramfs -u" to rebuild your initramfs. At that point you should get lvm into the initramfs and hopefully be able to boot. |
| 02:20.57 | un214 | karlpinc: vgchange is not in busybox; it is its own program and will only be in / if you've installed lvm |
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| 02:21.21 | un214 | I don't know what puts it in initrd but I expect it's only in initrd if your / is on lvm |
| 02:21.23 | karlpinc | un214: Sure, but it gets into the initramfs (hopefully) so the system can boot. |
| 02:21.40 | willnotsay | I see, will try that. thanks a lot! |
| 02:21.50 | un214 | probably the problem is he needs to install the package in his debian, correct /etc/fstab, and run updateramfs |
| 02:21.51 | karlpinc | un214: willnotsay said that his rootfs is in lvm. |
| 02:22.26 | firespeaker | oh my a hot fix |
| 02:22.34 | karlpinc | willnotsay: Yes, you should also check that /etc/fstab is right (best to use uuids or a label or something that won't change). |
| 02:22.40 | firespeaker | petn-randall: yeah, it still crashes on opening task manager |
| 02:22.59 | karlpinc | un214: He said his box had been booting, so.... |
| 02:23.53 | un214 | I've seen apt-get do stupider things |
| 02:24.03 | un214 | hmmm; grub is blacklisted. I know. Let's install grub:i386 |
| 02:24.12 | karlpinc | un214: :) |
| 02:24.33 | petn-randall | un214: That's what you get for using foreign-arch ;) |
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| 02:24.58 | un214 | some things depend on it |
| 02:25.23 | un214 | we don't have i386-libc6 package in 64 bit anymore |
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| 02:27.01 | un214 | incidentally, systemd:i386 works about as good or bad as the native x64 systemd on x64 |
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| 02:36.41 | willnotsay | rebuilding the initramfs fixed it. veery strange. also tried booting an older kernel before, same issues were had.. |
| 02:36.43 | willnotsay | thanks again! |
| 02:36.49 | machua | <PROTECTED> |
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| 02:46.11 | jjakob | I'm trying to install some deb packages, but when I run apt-get -f install, it wants to remove my packages instead of installing the dependencies, why? |
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| 02:46.46 | un214 | :( |
| 02:47.14 | un214 | apt-get -f install tries to pick the smallest number of changes or something like that |
| 02:47.35 | ksk | uh okay, its a bug in update-initramfs I think. I just rebuild it in the running buster, and then its missing again. I might get to report a bug :o |
| 02:47.39 | un214 | is there a reason you can't let them be removed and apt-get install them again |
| 02:47.59 | annadane | !bat |
| 02:48.00 | dpkg | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 02:48.02 | annadane | jjakob, ^ |
| 02:48.46 | exocet | Hello. |
| 02:49.25 | un214 | ksk: man 8 initramfs-tools lists a way to force files into the initramfs if you need a workaround |
| 02:49.39 | exocet | I have an account in a server with debian without root access, how can i check if i have a program to extract rar archives? |
| 02:50.12 | un214 | hmmm either you have unrar or you don't |
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| 02:50.22 | un214 | you can just try running it |
| 02:50.22 | ksk | right now I would be more interested in how it determines if lvchange should be put in there - will check that out.. |
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| 02:51.33 | exocet | I don't have unrar. |
| 02:51.40 | exocet | I checked it. |
| 02:52.47 | ksk | exocet: it might be you can just copy over the unrar binary - not that your admin would like that, but.. (or unrar localy, repack into .tar.gz if size is of matter, and upload again) |
| 02:52.51 | un214 | unrar only depends libstdc++6; it's probably you can unpack it to ~/bin and expect it to work |
| 02:53.13 | exocet | Ahh. |
| 02:53.44 | festerjester | ksk, Thanks again for the debootstrap recommendation. Easier than what I was doing. |
| 02:53.49 | annadane | hang on, /home/user/bin is a thing? |
| 02:53.54 | un214 | I've got more programs in ~ than / |
| 02:54.02 | annadane | TIL... |
| 02:54.04 | firespeaker | lol |
| 02:54.05 | un214 | annadane: it's a convention, it doesn't exist until you make it |
| 02:54.11 | jjakob | is the problem perhaps Depends: x bit it is not installable ? |
| 02:54.34 | un214 | jjakob: yeah that would do it |
| 02:54.55 | un214 | third-party .deb ? |
| 02:54.55 | jjakob | oh I'm probably missing a repo |
| 02:54.59 | firespeaker | I don't always put stuff in ~/bin |
| 02:55.07 | jjakob | yeah self-built |
| 02:55.08 | firespeaker | but when I do, it's usually my own stuff |
| 02:55.42 | exocet | Thank you ksk and un214. |
| 02:56.12 | annadane | so you just include it in your PATH i guess |
| 02:56.24 | annadane | instead of all of home |
| 02:56.30 | annadane | it makes sense |
| 02:56.34 | annadane | i just never thought of that |
| 02:56.56 | un214 | I have a ~/bin and a ~/scripts |
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| 02:58.01 | un214 | I also have a bunch of junk that starts with #!/usr/bin/tcc -run |
| 02:58.21 | exocet | Oh, it worked just using gzip. |
| 02:58.31 | exocet | No. |
| 02:58.46 | exocet | I compressed it in a .gz file lol. |
| 02:58.50 | un214 | lol |
| 02:58.52 | un214 | gunzip man |
| 02:59.33 | un214 | is enjoying chicken tortilla soup |
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| 03:02.32 | ksk | ,v initramfs-tools |
| 03:02.33 | judd | Package: initramfs-tools on amd64 -- jessie: 0.120+deb8u3; stretch: 0.130; buster: 0.133+deb10u1; bullseye: 0.135; sid: 0.135 |
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| 03:07.03 | ksk | mhhm, cannot find any string "lvchange" in any of the hooks. I am confused. Will go on debugging that tomorrow I suppose |
| 03:08.34 | un214 | well if I was willing to rebuild my kernel rather than use the stock package I wouldn't even need initrd |
| 03:08.35 | exocet | So. |
| 03:10.06 | jjakob | I need to remove the broken packages that never installed but their postrm script is failing so I can't even install a new package |
| 03:10.22 | exocet | guzip rarlinux-X.X.X.tar.gz /home/user/bin? |
| 03:10.35 | exocet | Replacing the versions and the user? |
| 03:10.43 | ksk | exocet: protip: always use "tar -xaf" ;) |
| 03:10.45 | jjakob | is it possible to force remove a package even if the postrm script fails? |
| 03:11.17 | exocet | guzip rarlinux-X.X.X.tar.gz /home/user/bin | tar -xaf |
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| 03:11.26 | annadane | dpkg -r |
| 03:11.26 | dpkg | annadane: bugger all, i dunno |
| 03:11.59 | ksk | jjakob: I dont think so. You can debug/remove/fix the postrm script though (for example starting by adding set -x) |
| 03:12.00 | un214 | dpkg -P if you really want it gone forever |
| 03:12.01 | dpkg | un214: wish i knew |
| 03:12.08 | exocet | gunzip |
| 03:12.13 | ksk | (I do _not_ recommend just removing it) |
| 03:12.15 | annadane | though you're probably running testing/unstable, so file a bug report |
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| 03:14.43 | un214 | when I had a really stuck package, I replaced it with a hand-cast empty package, then removed it |
| 03:14.49 | exocet | gzip: rarlinux-x64-5.8.0.tar.gz: No such file or directory |
| 03:14.50 | exocet | tar: This does not look like a tar archive |
| 03:15.40 | un214 | lemme guess: ls rarlinux-x64-5.8.0.tar.gz doesn't work either |
| 03:15.48 | exocet | What command i must use to descompress? just tar -xaf? |
| 03:16.00 | un214 | tar -xf path |
| 03:16.20 | un214 | used to be tar -zxf path but tar autodetects now |
| 03:18.54 | ksk | yap, xaf does "autodetection" |
| 03:19.01 | annadane | ksk, why not? |
| 03:19.25 | ksk | removing the postrm script? because it most likely serves a purpose |
| 03:20.04 | annadane | removing the package, i thought you meant |
| 03:20.07 | annadane | because i suggested dpkg -r |
| 03:21.11 | exocet | It is working. |
| 03:21.16 | exocet | Thank you guys. |
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| 03:45.36 | Thienma | hi people. I had this problem for a while now and I on both stable and testing version. The system freeze up and I couldn't do anything. The keyboard and mouse are light up but It won't interact with the X server. I had to hit restart button get back. If you can look at my system log and give me some ideas. https://pastebin.com/UxUTngA3 . It happened at 22:34:00pm |
| 03:47.11 | ksk | nothing in the logs indicates why, as far as I can tell |
| 03:47.34 | Thienma | ya, I don't know why. I tried almost everything but still happened. |
| 03:47.45 | ksk | Is it rather new hardare, CPU/GPU wise? I hear you need recent kernels (And gpu drivers?) for these. |
| 03:47.47 | Thienma | I didn't try another distro , this is a brand new built computer. |
| 03:48.27 | ksk | I think we had in fact a guy in here yesterday with similar problems, but not sure how he resolved it. |
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| 03:49.13 | Thienma | You think the CPU /gpu problem? |
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| 03:50.21 | Thienma | I have ryzen 5 and [GeForce GTX 1060 3GB] as the graphic card driver. |
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| 03:56.05 | dgriffi | inetutils-ftpd works strangely when the remote user is on TOPS20. Does anyone know what might be the problem here? https://pastebin.com/iRHf0wcH |
| 03:56.41 | Thienma | ksk, do you recall his nick name? |
| 03:57.17 | annadane | how do i blank the scren temporarily until i move the mouse? |
| 03:57.22 | annadane | not, like, suspend |
| 03:57.24 | Thienma | If you could check the log for me would be great. |
| 03:57.42 | ksk | afraid not, and my backlog does not reach that far. I suggest you come here at a more civilized time, others will surely be able to help you out ) |
| 03:57.49 | ksk | its 0500 in EU right now.. |
| 03:57.58 | Thienma | oh |
| 03:58.02 | Thienma | thanks ksk |
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| 03:59.03 | ksk | ,v linux-image-amd64 |
| 03:59.04 | judd | Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u6; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u9; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u1~bpo9+1; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u1; buster-proposed-updates: 4.19+105+deb10u2; buster-backports: 5.3.9-2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.3.15-1; sid: 5.4.8-1 |
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| 03:59.29 | ksk | mhm if you had the problems with bullseye the buster-backports kernel will for sure not help.. |
| 03:59.52 | ksk | which GPU drivers did you install? Did you try getting them upstream (from nvidia)? |
| 04:00.02 | ksk | never tried that myself, but might be an option to checkout |
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| 04:06.39 | Thienma | I made some changes. Let me reboot. bye guys! |
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| 05:48.50 | autopsy | Ok I'm from #Fedora ##linux and #Gentoo can somebody haz halp me yet already? |
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| 05:49.43 | Randolf | Hello. |
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| 05:50.26 | Randolf | I'm trying to install Debian 10.2.0 on a computer with an 8 TB hard drive, but I keep getting fatal errors when trying to install GRUB. |
| 05:51.01 | autopsy | Fatal errors holkd up |
| 05:51.09 | Randolf | The system installer tells me that the failing step is: Install the GRUB boot loader on a hard disk. |
| 05:51.16 | autopsy | Like fatal what the what fatal about software bro? |
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| 05:51.47 | Randolf | autopsy: I don't know why I'm getting this error. I'm hoping someone can help me. |
| 05:52.04 | autopsy | Ok so the installer is not knowing which disk or wosmetihng did you tell it which drive to install grub 2 or what the 2? |
| 05:52.26 | autopsy | You know. |
| 05:52.30 | autopsy | Try Fedora |
| 05:52.31 | jm_ | Randolf: check if there's a file with error message somewhere in /tmp or perhaps /target/tmp |
| 05:52.32 | Randolf | I actually have two disks, but I'm only setting everything up on the first one, which shows up as SCSI 1 if I recall correctly. |
| 05:52.43 | Randolf | jm_: I'll take a look. |
| 05:52.52 | Randolf | autopsy: That's not helpful. |
| 05:53.05 | autopsy | Ok sorry then. |
| 05:53.20 | jm_ | Randolf: perhaps it also shows some details on tty3/4 |
| 05:53.20 | autopsy | I know just as much about install procedures and what is involved as anyone does. |
| 05:53.44 | Randolf | autopsy: I'm focused on Debian here, not Fedora. That's what wasn't helpful -- the suggestion to try Fedora. |
| 05:53.52 | Randolf | jm_: I'm just taking a look now. |
| 05:54.06 | autopsy | Yeah try tty 3 or 4 like he said. |
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| 05:54.34 | autopsy | Like she said whatever. |
| 05:54.54 | diogenes_ | Randolf, UEFI/legacy? |
| 05:55.33 | Randolf | jm_: Nothing. I'm seeing nothing from dmesg either. On tty4 I'm seeing: @WARNING **: Configuring 'grub-installer' failed with error code 1. |
| 05:56.09 | Randolf | diogenes_: This system booted from the USB memory stick in UEFI. I don't know how to tell if it's being installed this way. |
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| 05:56.52 | jm_ | Randolf: check if you see anything in /sys/firmware/efi |
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| 05:57.26 | Randolf | jm_: Yeah, there are some directories and files. |
| 05:57.39 | jm_ | Randolf: so it's UEFI then |
| 05:57.52 | Randolf | Ah, that's helpful. |
| 05:58.00 | diogenes_ | Randolf, if it's booted in UEFI then make sure the drive is GPT and you created a fat32 /boot/efi partition. |
| 05:58.33 | Randolf | diogenes_: I just followed the easy setup routine in the installer (full disk with LVM). Does this not take care of that automatically? |
| 05:59.46 | diogenes_ | Randolf, no clue, i always do partitioning manually. |
| 06:00.06 | jm_ | Randolf: you can inspect things on tty2 where you get a shell |
| 06:00.12 | Randolf | If I type "df" on tty2, I see this: /dev/sda1 523248 9192 514056 2% /target/boot/efi |
| 06:00.31 | jm_ | looks good then, and you told it to install grub on /dev/sda? |
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| 06:00.45 | Randolf | It didn't ask where to install it. |
| 06:01.10 | Randolf | But I haven't done anything with sdb, so sda is the only place it should be doing anything anyway. |
| 06:01.25 | jm_ | I would just try to install it manually |
| 06:01.44 | Randolf | Sure. How can I make that happen? |
| 06:03.09 | jm_ | «chroot /target» and check if everything relevant is mounted there (see /msg dpkg fixmbr) |
| 06:03.11 | diogenes_ | Randolf, afaik with LVM, you need a separate /boot partition too, but i'm not sure. |
| 06:04.44 | Randolf | jm_: I see /, /boot, /boot/efi, /dev, /media/cdrom0, and /run |
| 06:04.50 | Randolf | That looks pretty normal, I think. |
| 06:05.04 | jm_ | Randolf: but not /sys, /proc etc.? |
| 06:05.14 | Randolf | diogenes_: There is a /boot partition as well on /dev/sda2 |
| 06:06.00 | Randolf | jm_: I used "df" to list those. The /sys and /proc directories are present under root, and if I "cat /proc/stat" I see numbers. |
| 06:06.22 | jm_ | Randolf: the easiest way is to check the output of mount command |
| 06:07.06 | Randolf | Okay, I see /proc showing up there. |
| 06:07.08 | Randolf | Also /run |
| 06:07.53 | Randolf | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:08.02 | jm_ | in that case try «/usr/sbin/grub-install /dev/sda» |
| 06:08.44 | Randolf | error: /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc/modinfo.sh doesn't exist |
| 06:08.48 | Randolf | I'm using amd64. |
| 06:08.49 | han-solo | what's the recommended way to get idle/used CPU usage ? |
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| 06:09.12 | Randolf | han-solo: Does the "top" command (or "htop" command) work for you? |
| 06:09.19 | jm_ | have you run that inside chroot? |
| 06:09.24 | Randolf | jm_: Yes. |
| 06:09.37 | Randolf | I used: chroot /target |
| 06:09.45 | han-solo | Randolf: programatically, i'd assume `top/htop` is for interactive use ? |
| 06:10.17 | Randolf | han-solo: Yes, those are end-user tools. I don't know how to help you with the programmatic aspect though. |
| 06:10.23 | jm_ | han-solo: you can check files in /proc the way these tools do |
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| 06:12.26 | han-solo | jm_: yeah, i was thinking about going with reading /proc/stat and doing the math |
| 06:12.35 | han-solo | Just wanted to see if any recommended way. Thanks |
| 06:13.23 | jm_ | last time we needed to do something similar at work we checked how procutils tools worked and copied that approach |
| 06:13.36 | Randolf | jm_: I'm seeing in grub-install's "man" pages that there's a --target= option. Should I try --target=x86_64-efi ? |
| 06:15.19 | jm_ | Randolf: I too am on amd64 and /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc/modinfo.sh is there, but this system has UEFI disabled in BIOS |
| 06:15.24 | jm_ | :q |
| 06:15.27 | jm_ | bleh |
| 06:16.13 | jm_ | perhaps check which grub packages are installed |
| 06:16.31 | jm_ | I don't have a system with UEFI to compare with right now |
| 06:16.32 | Randolf | I'm just trying it. |
| 06:16.46 | jm_ | but surely there's someone else in #debian that does |
| 06:16.50 | Randolf | Seeing "Unknown device "/dev/sda1": No such device" and others showing up. |
| 06:17.11 | Randolf | warning: EFI variables are not supported on this system. |
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| 06:17.17 | Randolf | Installation finished. No error reported. |
| 06:17.40 | Randolf | Here's the command I used: /usr/sbin/grub-install --target=x86_64-efi /dev/sda |
| 06:18.15 | jm_ | do you see /sys/firmware/efi/efivars ? |
| 06:18.33 | Randolf | Okay, I just selected "Continue without bootloader" to complete the installation (I'll look for that file first). |
| 06:19.11 | jm_ | should be a dir IIRC |
| 06:19.34 | Randolf | jm_: Outside of the chroot I can see it. It's an empty directory. |
| 06:19.59 | diogenes_ | Randolf, then try to install in legacy mode without UEFI. |
| 06:20.02 | jm_ | Randolf: wait, you don't see it in chroot? have you checked /sys is mounted in chroot |
| 06:20.37 | Randolf | Yeah, /sys is not mounted in chroot. |
| 06:20.49 | jm_ | heh it must be, or grub-install won't work |
| 06:21.18 | Randolf | I'm rebooting. |
| 06:21.52 | jm_ | I doubt it'll boot but who knows |
| 06:21.54 | Randolf | I've got GNU GRUB "Minimal BASH" now. |
| 06:22.15 | jm_ | !fixmbr |
| 06:22.15 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 06:22.21 | jm_ | try that |
| 06:22.37 | Randolf | Okay. |
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| 06:28.25 | Randolf | Hmm, can't even find the device. |
| 06:28.44 | jm_ | which device? |
| 06:28.49 | Randolf | <PROTECTED> |
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| 06:29.02 | Randolf | And that's mounted to /cdrom now. |
| 06:29.37 | jm_ | cdrom shouldn't be sdX, cdrom is srX etc. |
| 06:29.40 | Randolf | df only shows /run/, /dev/, and /cdrom |
| 06:29.49 | Randolf | I'm booting from USB. |
| 06:30.02 | Randolf | CDs are too slow, and tend to develop errors. |
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| 06:30.37 | jm_ | debian installer has rescue mode - have you used that when booting it? |
| 06:30.41 | Randolf | The installer can find the disks. |
| 06:30.55 | Randolf | Rescue mode? I didn't use that. I'll reboot and try to find it. |
| 06:31.36 | Randolf | Got it. |
| 06:31.37 | Randolf | !fixmbr |
| 06:31.38 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 06:32.13 | jm_ | it's unser advanced menu option |
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| 06:33.07 | Randolf | Okay, it's giving me options for devices now. |
| 06:33.13 | Randolf | is in Rescue Mode |
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| 06:33.39 | Randolf | Should I choose /dev/debian-vg/root or /dev/sda1 ? |
| 06:34.10 | jm_ | is that about mounting /? |
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| 06:34.34 | Randolf | I think so. It's asking me which device I wish to use as my root file system. |
| 06:34.47 | jm_ | then it's probably debian-vg/root |
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| 06:35.20 | Randolf | That worked. |
| 06:35.34 | Randolf | I also mounted /boot and /boot/efi (it asked for both of these). |
| 06:35.44 | Randolf | !fixmbr |
| 06:35.45 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 06:36.13 | jm_ | you won't have to do some parts of that since rescue mode did it for you |
| 06:36.35 | Randolf | I'm just running update-grub. |
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| 06:37.09 | Randolf | grub-install /dev/sda1 |
| 06:37.20 | Randolf | it says it's installing for the x86_64-efi platform now. |
| 06:37.24 | jm_ | I would use /dev/sda |
| 06:37.45 | Randolf | Oh crap, did I screw up? |
| 06:38.06 | jm_ | don't think so, just redo it |
| 06:38.09 | Randolf | That failed. I'm trying again with /dev/sda instead now. |
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| 06:38.50 | Randolf | Cannot read EFI Boot* variables. |
| 06:39.04 | Randolf | A few more warnings. |
| 06:39.15 | Randolf | error: failed to register the EFI boot entry: Input/output error. |
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| 06:40.16 | Randolf | Rescue Mode has some options to re-install GRUB so I'm trying those now. |
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| 06:40.56 | Randolf | Failed again. Same error. |
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| 06:41.30 | jm_ | hmm not really sure what that is about, I would just try in legacy mode |
| 06:42.26 | Randolf | You know, I had problems installing a few days ago on another computer. Never had any of these issues with 10.1.0, but 10.2.0 seems to create a lot of grief installing GRUB. The problem from the other day was because the system had a RAID controller that requires software drivers to work, so I had to dd /dev/zero the drives after shutting off |
| 06:42.26 | Randolf | RAID to get it working. |
| 06:42.44 | Randolf | Yeah, I'm giving up. I'll just try legacy mode instead. I'll see if I can disable UEFI in the BIOS. |
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| 06:44.15 | Randolf | Okay, boot mode is set to "Legacy only" now. |
| 06:44.43 | Randolf | ...and now it boots. |
| 06:44.56 | Randolf | What the hell? |
| 06:45.01 | Randolf | Did Rescue Mode actually work? |
| 06:45.11 | jm_ | wait, it booted without you reinstalling grub? |
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| 06:45.35 | Randolf | Apparently. I'm going to reboot again and re-enable UEFI mode in the BIOS and see what happens. |
| 06:45.45 | Randolf | I also got a GUI, which I'm pretty sure I didn't set up. |
| 06:47.02 | jm_ | i think the default is to install a desktop system, you need to unmark it at the end |
| 06:47.17 | Randolf | Yup, that worked. |
| 06:47.36 | Randolf | I think Rescue Mode fixed it even though it reported errors. |
| 06:47.59 | Randolf | You know, I like this blue colour scheme a lot more than the orange one in Ubuntu. It's very business-like. |
| 06:48.13 | Randolf | Orange is more of a home-like kind of colour scheme. |
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| 06:49.10 | Randolf | No wonder it took so bloody long to install. |
| 06:50.29 | Randolf | Can I use the installer to remove the GUI? Or do I have to re-instlal? |
| 06:50.43 | jm_ | you can use apt to uninstall stuff |
| 06:51.21 | Randolf | So, basically just uninstall Gnome. |
| 06:51.57 | jm_ | probably task-foo packages too |
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| 06:52.06 | Randolf | Task-foo? |
| 06:52.17 | jm_ | try dpkg -l|grep task- |
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| 06:52.47 | Randolf | Ah, I see. |
| 06:52.55 | Randolf | I'm using "apt remove task-*" now. |
| 06:54.44 | Randolf | The graphical login still comes up after removing gnome and task-* then rebooting. |
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| 06:55.20 | Randolf | Oh, I need to do "apt autoremove" to get rid of a boatload of gnome and other stuff. |
| 06:55.32 | Randolf | There goes gnome-core and friends. |
| 06:55.41 | jm_ | yeah try apt autoremove |
| 06:56.17 | Randolf | 335 packages are being removed. |
| 06:56.45 | Randolf | By the way, jm_, thanks so much for all your help. |
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| 06:57.54 | jm_ | no problem |
| 06:58.54 | Randolf | Hopefully someone can look into the GRUB installation stuff on UEFI systems before 10.3 comes along. |
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| 07:07.55 | autopsy | Its all dope man. |
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| 07:10.26 | Randolf | Ha! |
| 07:10.34 | Randolf | Except that the GUI still comes up after rebooting. |
| 07:10.36 | autopsy | Ok what is smallbook.bin in GNU chess source codes? |
| 07:11.12 | autopsy | Randolf hey you coulda said something about a GUI but what we said was uhhh goooey. |
| 07:11.37 | diogenes_ | autopsy, i suspect an openings book. |
| 07:11.43 | autopsy | cat in the hat? No free the cat man du. |
| 07:11.51 | jm_ | !uninstall gnome |
| 07:11.52 | dpkg | To remove or purge GNOME 2.x: aptitude remove ~nlibgnome ~nlibbonobo2 ~nliborbit2 ~nlibgnomeui ~nlibgnomevfs2. Use 'purge' instead of 'remove' if that's what you want (ask me about <purge>). |
| 07:11.56 | jm_ | try that |
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| 07:12.25 | jm_ | or if it's just gdm3 left uninstall it |
| 07:12.41 | autopsy | diogenes_ what the half maggot is a openings? |
| 07:12.56 | Randolf | I'll try that next. I just discovered that there's still a lot of gnome stuff installed according to "dpkg -l | grep gnome" |
| 07:13.29 | autopsy | You neeeed SLiM and Fluxbox for your half machines. |
| 07:13.31 | nvz | that factoid is ancient and out of date |
| 07:13.42 | nvz | Randolf: are you replacing GNOME with something? |
| 07:13.44 | jm_ | probably |
| 07:13.48 | diogenes_ | autopsy, hehe why you need a chess program for? |
| 07:13.49 | Randolf | autopsy: Actually, I don't want any GUI on this machine at all. |
| 07:13.57 | Randolf | nvz: No, I'm trying to get rid of it. |
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| 07:14.21 | Randolf | nvz: I must have inadvertently not turned off the GNOME option during the installation. |
| 07:14.31 | nvz | Randolf: http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/buster/ my site has package lists for std, base, and all 7 DE you can probably work something out with those |
| 07:14.31 | autopsy | Randolf well darn it why did you install Xorg X11 X Xwayland Gnome-sessions gnome-binary and GNOME 3? |
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| 07:14.57 | autopsy | Ooop I gotta pee. |
| 07:15.06 | autopsy | brb you need me hold on. |
| 07:15.07 | Randolf | I had problems with GRUB not installing smoothly earlier, but I'm tempted to re-install all over again. |
| 07:15.28 | nvz | I should probably at some point make files without the html formatting for easier use for such things |
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| 07:15.48 | Randolf | Thanks! |
| 07:15.49 | autopsy | No just dd a good MBR bin to the First Sector then today we have they grub2-mkconfig |
| 07:16.20 | Randolf | autopsy: Earlier you suggested I switch to Fedora. I'm so glad you're trying to help now. |
| 07:16.27 | autopsy | Good thing too we can do GPT Uhm MBR EFI whaterver CSM. |
| 07:16.36 | Randolf | laughs |
| 07:17.00 | autopsy | YUeah UEFING RIGHT HA HA |
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| 07:17.15 | Randolf | Ha! That's a very clever pun, actually. Nicely done! |
| 07:17.33 | autopsy | DUde I didn't suggest you switch to Fed/ |
| 07:17.37 | autopsy | I said TRY FEDORA |
| 07:17.56 | autopsy | Don't get me all screwed up bud bro ho mo whatev./ |
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| 07:18.32 | autopsy | Nothing matters to me anyways/ |
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| 07:18.54 | autopsy | I couldn't really do anything without root ssh access to yoiur box so... blechs. |
| 07:19.15 | Randolf | That's as it should be. |
| 07:19.29 | autopsy | Ok cool. |
| 07:19.50 | autopsy | But just try to help yourself buddy when someonme says try somethihng they arent suggestiung you switchs. |
| 07:20.43 | autopsy | Your switch is your own fing thing dude and My fuses is tiny and wadded up at the war head I mean tore heads. |
| 07:20.48 | Randolf | Okay, there's boatloads of X11 and xorg stuff lying around all over the place. I must be missing something, but I'm just going to go for a complete re-install without GNOME this time because I think that will be easier the continuing to chase after this. At least the system doesn't boot into GUI mode anymore, although it does tell me something |
| 07:20.48 | Randolf | about missing firmware after clearing the screen. GRUB still does GUI at start through, which I don't really care about, but this is different behaviour from the other install just the other day. |
| 07:21.33 | jm_ | some firmware warnings can be ignored, or if you want it to shut up, just look up the file it suggests (apt-file is your friend) |
| 07:21.35 | autopsy | DUDE |
| 07:21.50 | jm_ | for grub you can change it in /etc/default/grub |
| 07:21.57 | autopsy | Grub has splash.xpm capabilities. |
| 07:21.59 | Randolf | jm_: Yeah, I will look into this afterwards. |
| 07:22.18 | jm_ | GRUB_TERMINAL=console for text mode |
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| 07:22.46 | autopsy | init 1 && init 3 |
| 07:23.07 | Randolf | Thanks. I'm just doing a re-install because I have no idea how much more I'll have to chase after. |
| 07:23.16 | autopsy | chmod 666 /dev/initctl && just do it. |
| 07:23.24 | autopsy | Nike. |
| 07:23.47 | Randolf | Why? |
| 07:23.50 | autopsy | Its not a dog. |
| 07:24.04 | autopsy | Its a hot dog. |
| 07:24.22 | Randolf | How much have you been drinking? |
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| 07:25.25 | Randolf | (A rough estimate is fine. You don't have to spend a lot of time trying to count the empties.) |
| 07:25.25 | autopsy | I drank some libacetone earlier and almost had a sodium hydroxide on ice. |
| 07:25.42 | autopsy | Well. |
| 07:25.52 | autopsy | 4 8 ounce glass of water too. |
| 07:27.02 | autopsy | Oh and I had some isopropylbenzylamine. |
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| 07:28.08 | dgriffi | what's next after this quit by Dmitry Bogatov? |
| 07:28.30 | autopsy | â Red Phosphorous Hydrogen Iodide Hypophosphorous acid Ephedrine Psuedoephedrine Hydrogen Chloride Sodium Hydroxide Gasoline Methanol -ChanServ- autopsy is not on #methamphetamine. |
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| 07:29.09 | autopsy | See you canot refute the facts. |
| 07:29.34 | Randolf | I'll just stick with consuming dihydrogen monoxide (it's what Chem Trails are really made of). |
| 07:30.01 | autopsy | Dihydrogen Monoxide is H20 water sololorrly. |
| 07:30.31 | autopsy | Yes d rink water water make you pee makes me pee. |
| 07:30.54 | Randolf | I knew you'd get that. |
| 07:30.58 | autopsy | Ok sorry I'l shut of or up or down or go down or go to hell or whatever. |
| 07:31.31 | han-solo | what if i told, you die because you breath oxygen and drink water... |
| 07:31.45 | Randolf | dgriffi: It seems that Dmitry Bogatov knows quite a lot: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2018/05/23/russia-finds-a-new-tor-criminal |
| 07:31.49 | autopsy | Randolf, I am not the smartest piece in the pad but I know when people write on me ok. |
| 07:32.15 | autopsy | And eat carbohydrates carbon compounds yes hansuu_ |
| 07:32.41 | han-solo | Yes, padawan |
| 07:32.51 | autopsy | han-solo |
| 07:33.07 | autopsy | Not young padawan though right pedofool? |
| 07:33.28 | autopsy | Ok hush damn. |
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| 07:33.32 | autopsy | Sorry. |
| 07:33.48 | autopsy | steps out for asmoke |
| 07:33.57 | han-solo | i have to google what "pedofool" means :) |
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| 07:35.15 | Randolf | han-solo: Google Image Search might prove to be a time-saver, but don't do that at work. |
| 07:35.29 | han-solo | alright +1 |
| 07:35.52 | autopsy | Riddle me this.. |
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| 07:36.07 | autopsy | When I'm outside I'm smoking. |
| 07:36.19 | dgriffi | Randolf: I was referring to his ragequit from Debian over how svsinit is being handled |
| 07:36.32 | dgriffi | Randolf: but this is... interesting... |
| 07:36.45 | autopsy | oh god. |
| 07:37.10 | jelly | points out there's a perfectly fine #debian-offtopic channel for non-support chat |
| 07:37.12 | *** mode/#debian [+o jelly] by ChanServ |
| 07:37.19 | Randolf | dgriffi: I haven't even heard of svsinit, but if people are fighting about it then it's probably not a bad thing to learn about. |
| 07:37.24 | autopsy | I run Fedora 31 and I stil use rc.local and init 3 init 5 and service scripts. |
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| 07:37.27 | autopsy | becuse |
| 07:37.34 | autopsy | I am willing to put in the work. |
| 07:37.34 | dgriffi | smoking god... well, you could be smoking soma... which some sources associate with amanita muscaria |
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| 07:37.56 | autopsy | Phenylcycladine actually probably. |
| 07:38.13 | jelly | autopsy / dgriffi etc: please keep this channel for tech support |
| 07:38.20 | autopsy | I had some Psilocybe Cubensis once., |
| 07:38.20 | dgriffi | Randolf: you're not aware of what init is? svsvinit is the System V flavor of init that took over from the BSD style several years ago |
| 07:38.21 | han-solo | svsinit ? is that some alternate for sysVinit ? |
| 07:38.45 | autopsy | sysinit is a typo sory. |
| 07:38.46 | dgriffi | Randolf: systemd is the abomination that muscled its way in to displace sysvinit |
| 07:38.53 | autopsy | I meant Sys V init yes. |
| 07:38.58 | han-solo | ah Okay |
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| 07:39.05 | autopsy | Syustemd is awesomne. |
| 07:39.06 | autopsy | ' |
| 07:39.27 | Randolf | dgriffi: Well, I'm not familiar with the name. I have a fairly strong background in NetBSD as I've been using it for well over a decade. (Lately I'm just starting to move systems on to Debian.) |
| 07:39.38 | autopsy | Systemd outsyses all your inits. |
| 07:39.44 | autopsy | And all your nits. |
| 07:39.48 | autopsy | In your hair. |
| 07:39.51 | Randolf | Ha |
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| 07:40.22 | autopsy | Yes. |
| 07:40.26 | autopsy | Hah ha ha ha |
| 07:40.33 | dgriffi | Randolf: sysvinit is similar to how init works for BSD. my inquiry is about what the state of things for alternatives to systemd is now that Dmitry is gone |
| 07:40.33 | autopsy | Thasbnks you. |
| 07:40.34 | Randolf | I find I really like Debian because it's so basic -- not a whole bunch of clutter with the installations, and it uses ifupdown instead of NetPlan. |
| 07:41.13 | autopsy | ifup ifdown eth0 it is /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ |
| 07:41.27 | jelly | !interfaces |
| 07:41.27 | dpkg | Your network configuration is in the file /etc/network/interfaces ; "man 5 interfaces" for documentation, "zless /usr/share/doc/ifupdown/examples/network-interfaces.gz" for example configurations. Start and stop your networking with ifup -a and ifdown -a respectively. http://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration . See also <dhcp client>, <resolv.conf>, <static route>. |
| 07:41.37 | jelly | autopsy: ^ in debian context |
| 07:41.47 | Randolf | dgriffi: I've been using the rc system on NetBSD. I haven't looked into the current versions though. I really liked NetBSD, but kept running into problems with packages clobbering each other and so I couldn't do regular updates. |
| 07:41.51 | autopsy | I rememeber the static device file directory... now we have udev and ev. |
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| 07:42.22 | Randolf | jelly: Yeah, I quite like the /etc/network/interfaces layout. |
| 07:42.34 | autopsy | Randolf do you PLAN? On being a sytems administrator? |
| 07:43.05 | autopsy | I'm not even god with Vi but something tells me you're pushing the envelopes. |
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| 07:43.38 | jelly | but really. #debian-offtopic is right over there, keep THIS channel for support questions |
| 07:43.48 | dgriffi | ugh... |
| 07:43.48 | Randolf | autopsy: You don't know my background. I've been administering computer systems since the 1980s, and have been running internet sites since the 1990s (started out with Gopher and FTP, and eventually HTTP once it started to get traction). |
| 07:43.55 | autopsy | THIS is for REAL huh? |
| 07:44.02 | at0m | !ot |
| 07:44.02 | dpkg | #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. |
| 07:44.04 | dgriffi | I'm just trying to get some info on Dmitry and why he quit. |
| 07:44.17 | autopsy | Who is Dmitry.?? |
| 07:44.25 | autopsy | Tll me please. |
| 07:44.33 | jelly | dgriffi: and that sadly is not a topic here |
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| 07:44.47 | autopsy | Oooh snap. |
| 07:44.55 | autopsy | Crackle. |
| 07:45.03 | autopsy | Ping pang boom ... |
| 07:45.03 | dgriffi | he was a contributing member of the Debian project until he ragequit a few days ago over mismanagement of systemd and its playing nice with sysvinit and other alternate inits |
| 07:45.06 | autopsy | UHH POP. |
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| 07:45.37 | Randolf | The /etc/network/interfaces layout is great because it gives administrators exacting control over how the network is configured. This is important, and is one of the things I appreciate about Debian. |
| 07:45.39 | autopsy | Screw that shit. |
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| 07:45.45 | autopsy | rage who? |
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| 07:45.51 | autopsy | Rage against he Machine fio. |
| 07:46.06 | autopsy | Ok ok I'lll go aoutsdide |
| 07:46.14 | autopsy | aout to. |
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| 07:46.36 | autopsy | prelink my binaries while you're not busy. |
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| 07:46.55 | autopsy | just leaves |
| 07:47.28 | xsolrize | hi i just installed debian on an old thinkpad and i chose luks disk encryption and it seems to work, except there is a 1 minute delay between entering the password and the boot actually happening. is this a known issue? web search found a several year old thing that looks sort of similar but not sure |
| 07:48.00 | autopsy | 1 second delay? |
| 07:48.10 | jelly | xsolrize: not really, debian 10? |
| 07:48.15 | autopsy | Thats because you're running on Black Hole Time. |
| 07:48.17 | xsolrize | yeah debian 10. 1 minute |
| 07:48.33 | autopsy | 1 minute oh oh oh woop ok. |
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| 07:49.07 | suprothunderbolt | I'm installing a deb that needs something to be scheduled after the group of packages (i.e. all the ones specified at the command line to dpkg -i *.deb ) are done. Is there a hook like postinst for that? |
| 07:49.08 | Randolf | xsolrize: How old is the laptop? What kind of CPU does it have? |
| 07:49.19 | jm_ | does «systemd-analyze blame» show what's taking so long? |
| 07:50.06 | xsolrize | thinkpad x220, i5-something or other sandy bridge, iirc i ran fedora on a very similar machine a while back without this issue. also i run a now-ancient fedora version on an x230 now (ivy bridge but otherwise same machine) |
| 07:50.23 | xsolrize | i5-2520M |
| 07:50.37 | xsolrize | hmm lemme se |
| 07:50.42 | jelly | suprothunderbolt: use package dependencies to make sure its postinst runs after others, and install using apt not dpkg -i *deb |
| 07:51.25 | xsolrize | it explains 15 seconds or so |
| 07:51.26 | suprothunderbolt | will dpkg -i *.deb not order them? Alas that's the only option. |
| 07:51.44 | jelly | tho, a simple Depends ought to make sure about the right order as well yes |
| 07:52.09 | xsolrize | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:52.12 | xsolrize | wonder what that is |
| 07:52.27 | xsolrize | cryptsetup is 4.4 sec |
| 07:52.31 | jelly | that's just a gnome component for networking |
| 07:52.33 | Randolf | That processor should be fine. According to Intel it even has AES support: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/52229/intel-core-i5-2520m-processor-3m-cache-up-to-3-20-ghz.html |
| 07:52.54 | xsolrize | yeah aes is listed in /proc/cpuinfo |
| 07:53.04 | jelly | and lack of AES-NI would just use some more CPU%, not introduce a visible delay |
| 07:53.14 | at0m | what's that systemd tool again to check what's using time on boot |
| 07:53.15 | Randolf | Yeah. |
| 07:53.32 | jelly | at0m: <jm'_> does «systemd-analyze blame» show what's taking so long? |
| 07:53.35 | xsolrize | at0m, sysemd-analyze blame? that's what i just use |
| 07:53.40 | xsolrize | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=792002 looks interesting |
| 07:53.41 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/792002 in lvm2 (closed): «lvm2-monitor service causes long delay at boot (encrypted root/swap)»; severity: grave; opened: 2015-07-09; last modified: 2017-07-30. |
| 07:53.49 | at0m | oh thanks |
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| 07:54.49 | jm_ | xsolrize: NetworkManager-wait-online.service uses nm-online, see man nm-online |
| 07:54.55 | jelly | xsolrize: can you remove the "quiet" kernel boot option and see if additional output provides some clues |
| 07:56.18 | xsolrize | jelly hmm how do i unset that option? grub-something? |
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| 07:56.54 | xsolrize | grubenv is just all ##### |
| 07:57.12 | jm_ | see /etc/default/grub |
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| 07:58.15 | xsolrize | quiet boot does not seem to be set |
| 07:58.17 | xsolrize | looking in dmesg |
| 07:59.31 | jm_ | you can check if it's enabled by looking in /proc/cmdline |
| 07:59.33 | Randolf | Actually, it would be nice if "quiet" was turned off by default. I find that if something gets stuck for longer than 10 seconds and user's can see the screen, they'll panic. Usually it's a wireless network connection attempt that creates delays anyway, but if the user can see that on the screen then that at least eliminates the panicking. |
| 07:59.40 | xsolrize | i don't see that long delay in there |
| 07:59.48 | jelly | xsolrize: I meant do it one-time temporarily by doing [e]dit while in the grub menu |
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| 08:00.14 | xsolrize | it's not in grub default, but i can try rebooting and doing edit? |
| 08:00.23 | jelly | sure |
| 08:01.02 | xsolrize | ok gonna reboot, will be offline for a few minues |
| 08:01.04 | xsolrize | minutes |
| 08:01.41 | jelly | xsolrize: you can also check the linux lines in generated menuentry items in /boot/grub/grub.cfg ... eh |
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| 08:05.49 | xsolrize | delay was a little shorter this time, like 30 sec instead of 1 minute. thing is the delay is BEFORE the grub menu appears. power up box, get prompted for password, enter password, wait wait wait, grub menu |
| 08:06.29 | xsolrize | also in fedora there was a little graphical prompt for the password but debian just has an ugly text mode prompt saying something msdos boot sector, wonder if i misconfigured something |
| 08:06.36 | xsolrize | i used regular installer instead of graphical installer |
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| 08:11.55 | jelly | xsolrize: oh, you have no separate unencrypted /boot? |
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| 08:12.44 | xsolrize | jelly i guess not, i just checked the luks box in the installer |
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| 08:12.47 | jelly | xsolrize: then grub itself has to (ask to) decrypt your / filesystem to find the kernel and initrd |
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| 08:13.15 | xsolrize | so it's reading the whole / filesystem and decrypting it into ram and that's taking a while? hmm |
| 08:13.31 | xsolrize | but, it shouldn't be that large? |
| 08:13.39 | jm_ | hopefully not that way :) |
| 08:14.12 | jelly | no, not the whole thing, that's not how luks works |
| 08:14.12 | xsolrize | also again, i think my fedora install is about the same, and doesn't have this delay |
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| 08:14.30 | xsolrize | this doesn't even have a way to know if i mistyped the password |
| 08:14.54 | xsolrize | what is the prompt supposed to look like? i don't remember the exact wording but something like "attempting to decrypt ..." |
| 08:15.03 | jelly | I have no idea how grub support for luks and lvm work, however. |
| 08:15.09 | xsolrize | ic |
| 08:15.50 | xsolrize | well the thing is at least somewhat usable with the wait, so i can live with it while continuing to research it further i guess. |
| 08:15.51 | jelly | does Linux ask you for the passphrase once more after grub does its thing and loads vmlinux and initrd and boots? |
| 08:16.04 | xsolrize | no grub asks |
| 08:16.15 | xsolrize | then i eventually get to normal linux login |
| 08:16.43 | jelly | so there's a way to pass the passphrase or luks key from grub to linux |
| 08:17.03 | jelly | no idea how that works or where it might hang, sorry |
| 08:17.06 | xsolrize | i see a bunch of binary crap on the command line and wondered if that was the key ;P |
| 08:17.16 | jelly | maybe ask in #grub |
| 08:17.19 | xsolrize | i mean when the kernel launches |
| 08:17.20 | xsolrize | ok thanks |
| 08:17.46 | xsolrize | it's odd that this didn't happen in fedora which also uses grub, but that was a way old version so maybe something changed |
| 08:19.09 | jelly | it's possible this is less tested in debian |
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| 08:19.41 | jelly | or it's possible fedora's installer sets up a separate (unencrypted) /boot |
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| 08:27.03 | xsolrize | hmm this install is pretty straightforward. per your suggestion i'll ask on #grub, haven't gone there yet b/c other stuff here |
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| 08:27.10 | xsolrize | might put it off til tomorrow |
| 08:27.17 | xsolrize | but it seems like a good approach |
| 08:27.48 | xsolrize | doesn't look like there's an active luks or dmcrypt channel |
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| 09:08.27 | jjakob | I installed some deb packages that need dependencies and didn't configure, now apt-get -f install wants to remove them... how do I tell it to install them? |
| 09:09.38 | jjakob | all dependencies are installable (none show "Package ... is not installable.") |
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| 09:10.29 | jjakob | I assume it's cause apt wants to select the smaller set of changes, how do I tell it to select the bigger set of changes |
| 09:11.00 | jjakob | aside from relling it to install all dependencies manually |
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| 09:12.19 | jm_ | if they are installed, but not configured, why not use dpkg --pending --configutr |
| 09:12.27 | jm_ | *re |
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| 09:19.23 | jjakob | no, the debs I installed have a lot of depends, so they failed at configure, now I want to use apt to dl and install those |
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| 09:22.24 | jm_ | so they were installed using dpkg? |
| 09:22.37 | jjakob | the debs were, yes |
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| 09:24.22 | jjakob | maybe I should try apt install x.deb instead of dpkg -i |
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| 09:27.01 | jjakob | oh duh, I missed one not installable dependency... sorry for the noise |
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| 09:29.14 | jjakob | apt install ./x.deb showed it "not installable" but apt-get -f install showed it "not installed", that's why I didn't see it. odd? |
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| 09:41.51 | nlpqda | I put my debian in suspend "systemctl suspend" mode, but then I came back to find it turned off!!!! can anyone explain why/how/what happened? |
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| 09:42.12 | nlpqda | the laptop model is dell latitude e6230 |
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| 09:45.04 | slimefoot | battery ran out of power...? |
| 09:45.27 | jjakob | so I installed the not installable dependency (I missed a deb) but apt install ./x.deb still didn't want to proceed, but there were no not installable packages now. So I tried apt -f install and it finally wants to install dependencies instead of removing my packages! |
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| 09:49.18 | elhelh | #ajcsmile |
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| 09:54.07 | nlpqda | slimefoot: it could be, actually the battery is faulty. but I tought it won't be consuming any battery juice while suspended |
| 09:54.58 | slimefoot | suspend still consumes power - the memory unit remains active |
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| 09:55.08 | toruvinn | nlpqda, suspend != hibernation. suspend still keeps some parts powered on (for instance, it has to keep memory on so that, well, you dont lose the memory content) |
| 09:55.13 | slimefoot | if you want it not to use any power, you want to suspend to disk ("hibernate") |
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| 09:56.08 | nlpqda | alrighty, Now I know why it shut off |
| 09:56.36 | nlpqda | on a different topic ... xrandr --output XWAYLAND0 --brightness 0.1 doesn't change brightness |
| 09:57.00 | nlpqda | tried to change many values ... no error returned from the command but doesn't change the screen |
| 09:57.04 | nlpqda | any ideas? |
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| 10:14.23 | autopsy | So of course pulseaudio is a sound daemon it can be exploited, and you know..... this is just stupid so..... it has provisions to only run or welll it can run as root but with --system but it is SUPPOSED to run as an unprivileged daemon in user space. |
| 10:14.31 | autopsy | So pulseaudio isn't devilware |
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| 10:34.07 | marianna | hi! do you know any open source image bank? |
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| 10:44.06 | Haohmaru | bank? |
| 10:44.32 | Fox | marianna: https://unsplash.com/ |
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| 10:45.00 | marianna | thanks! |
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| 10:45.21 | Fox | yaw (took me 15s to find on google :/) |
| 10:45.56 | Fox | https://unsplash.com/license |
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| 10:47.37 | marianna | lucky you :-P |
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| 10:48.31 | rephlexie | cant you still search google images specifying license type? |
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| 10:56.52 | Fox | rephlexie: yes you can, at the bottom of that page https://www.google.com/advanced_image_search |
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| 11:07.08 | marianna | Thanks!! |
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| 11:15.03 | ficklepickle | pixabay.com |
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| 11:29.44 | kiwi_20 | hey guys, why does ssh hang when i try to access my server across my home network? |
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| 11:31.01 | Haohmaru | how exactly does it hang? |
| 11:31.06 | Haohmaru | and when |
| 11:31.08 | jm_ | try ssh -vvv and see where it's spending time |
| 11:31.44 | kiwi_20 | i did, it shows "debug1: identity file /home/myuser/.ssh/id_rsa type -1" many times |
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| 11:32.01 | kiwi_20 | and the last debug message is "debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_8.1" |
| 11:32.06 | kiwi_20 | and then it just hangs |
| 11:32.46 | jm_ | at that point it should get something from remote, so maybe remote side is doing reverse lookup? |
| 11:33.11 | autopsy | kiwi_20 not on a LAN network. |
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| 11:33.30 | autopsy | Unless you are running bind or another DNS servicer. |
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| 11:34.04 | autopsy | Your /etc/hosts file might need a specific entry for your ssh server and you might be screwed screweing with /etc/hostname |
| 11:35.48 | kiwi_20 | i'm using a mobile router, connected from one machine wirelessly and connected by ethernet cable with the server |
| 11:35.52 | kiwi_20 | not sure if that makes a difference |
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| 11:36.15 | kiwi_20 | autopsy^ |
| 11:36.29 | kiwi_20 | but i can see the service using nmap |
| 11:36.32 | kiwi_20 | *server |
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| 11:38.09 | kiwi_20 | also getting this in journalctl "Server returned error NXDOMAIN, mitigating potential DNS violation DVE-2018-0001, retry..." |
| 11:38.13 | kiwi_20 | not sure if related |
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| 11:41.09 | kiwi_20 | dont think its related actually |
| 11:41.13 | kiwi_20 | logs are from an hour ago |
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| 12:00.51 | ksk | hola |
| 12:01.57 | ksk | I am on buster, with my root partition on LVM. For that to work I need the binary "lvchange" in initrd - however, update-initramfs does not put it there, rendering me unable to start debian. |
| 12:02.18 | ksk | I suspect it might be a bug, and digged a little bit, however, I cant even find the string lvchange in any of the hooks - am I doing it wrong? |
| 12:02.42 | jm_ | why do you think you need lvchange? |
| 12:02.53 | jm_ | to activate it or what? |
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| 12:05.00 | ksk | mhm so I was told in here yesterday. I did boot a grml which found my volume-groups, chrooted and in there called update-initramfs - then checked and lvchange was put in initrd. |
| 12:05.28 | ksk | rebooted, and it worked. then back in running debian again update-initramfs - and then its missing again. I did not reboot again, but I strongly suspect it to fail again |
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| 12:06.08 | ksk | it might be something else is also different, did not do a diff of the initrd contents yet. |
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| 12:06.30 | jm_ | I would just run update-initramfswith sh -x to see why it behaves that way with grml |
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| 12:06.59 | ksk | okay, thats a good Idea, thanks. |
| 12:07.02 | jm_ | maybe its verbose mode also show something |
| 12:07.58 | jm_ | I think the bulk of the work is actually performed by mkinitramfs, so once you find out how it runs that, you might need to run that via sh -x |
| 12:09.01 | ksk | there is for example a hook "/usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/lvm2" which copies lvm2 and dmsetup binaries to the initrd, but no mention of lvchange. |
| 12:09.20 | ksk | also tried searching for the string on salsa, but did not find anything. |
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| 12:10.21 | jm_ | right, scripts-local-block/lvm2 contains lvm lvchange |
| 12:10.40 | jm_ | and it's indeed to activate it |
| 12:11.36 | jm_ | so lvchange is just a symlink to lvm, maybe that's why you don't find it? |
| 12:12.52 | jm_ | the other option is to specify debug for initramfs tools, see man initramfs-tools |
| 12:13.03 | jm_ | and compare working vs. non-working outputs |
| 12:13.04 | ksk | ah yeah I remember seeing that ln command in there. but! lvm has no command "lvchange" - maybe thats what changed? |
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| 12:14.19 | ksk | mhm but last lvm2 update was mid 2019 - and I was able to boot a while after that. |
| 12:14.31 | ksk | anyways, got something to debug now, thanks again. |
| 12:14.43 | jm_ | what do you mean has no command lvchange? |
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| 12:15.50 | jm_ | lvm lvchange --help should list options it uses, i.e. --sysinit --ignoreskippedcluster |
| 12:16.14 | ksk | http://paste.debian.net/hidden/7635c4f0/ |
| 12:16.48 | ksk | the scripts/local-block/lvm2 script indicates there should be "lvm lvchange" - but there is not.. |
| 12:17.03 | jm_ | yes, that means it should include command lvm, does it? |
| 12:17.38 | jm_ | if you look now, ls -l /usr/sbin/lvchange - see what I mean? |
| 12:17.39 | ksk | yes, it is. but for lvm command to work at all you need to have called "lvchange -aay" beforehand |
| 12:18.01 | jm_ | no, lvm is the command, lvchange -aay ... are parameters for it |
| 12:18.15 | ksk | but it is in fact not a valid argument to lvm :> |
| 12:18.40 | ksk | oh nevermind, it is. mhhm |
| 12:19.07 | ksk | eeh, Im running in circles here. gonna reboot when I find the time and see what happens. thanks for your time ;) |
| 12:19.13 | jm_ | so I only have centos 8 to try it on now and it works just fine, don't see why it wouldn't with debian havng exactly the same setup |
| 12:19.19 | jm_ | no problem, hope it helps |
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| 13:23.47 | onnik | Hi all, can anyone help me with my methodology to learning new things (KVM, LVM, etc.). I feel like I just work off cheatsheets and random howto articles. Is that really the best way to learn things? |
| 13:24.23 | Haohmaru | i'd say the best way to learn is via normal usage ;P~ |
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| 13:24.58 | colo-work | the best way is to learn is to actually do. in the end, it's a matter of creating an environment that doesn't punish you (too hard) if/when you mess up. |
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| 13:25.58 | onnik | Is it a dilemma of USER vs. DEV. I see all these forum replies from people who see to know the guts of something. But from my perspective as a Sysadmin/User I'm only ever really going to need to know a fix set of options? |
| 13:26.15 | onnik | fixed* |
| 13:26.39 | Haohmaru | i don't know neither KVM nor LVM |
| 13:27.51 | onnik | that makes 2 of us :) |
| 13:28.44 | Haohmaru | do you need them? |
| 13:29.41 | Haohmaru | afaik LVM is something about partitions.. KVM is maybe some h4x0rish thing for keyboardz/mice |
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| 13:30.17 | ksk | lol. everyone should use LVM, for starters |
| 13:30.26 | onnik | KVM -> Virtualization |
| 13:30.26 | dvs | bah |
| 13:30.35 | ksk | and KVM (in here..) is rather the kernel based virtual machine ;) |
| 13:30.35 | Haohmaru | why? |
| 13:30.44 | Haohmaru | oh |
| 13:30.48 | Haohmaru | hm |
| 13:30.56 | ksk | because I had to do a presentation about that, when I started my job, back in the day :D |
| 13:30.58 | onnik | Haohmaru: because it adds a layer of abstraction to your underlying disks which allows for flexbility |
| 13:31.14 | ksk | nah, it adds flexebility to the "oh no, my /home partition is too small" dilemma. |
| 13:31.26 | Haohmaru | right |
| 13:31.32 | Haohmaru | don't need that for now |
| 13:31.33 | ksk | granted, most people do have lots of space nowadays, still comes in handy (like, if you need bigger root partition for example) |
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| 13:31.47 | Haohmaru | i haven't filled my old hard disk yet |
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| 13:32.10 | dvs | Haohmaru, that's the thing. You can't do it once it's full |
| 13:32.21 | ksk | and I agree to the answer that its learning by doing. If you want to learn KVM, setup some virtual machines, and actually use them for something, build them into your own private stack |
| 13:32.23 | Haohmaru | ehm |
| 13:32.37 | Haohmaru | so LVM adds additional space out of nowhere? |
| 13:32.38 | Haohmaru | ;P~ |
| 13:32.40 | onnik | ksk: so essentially you need a goal? |
| 13:32.40 | ksk | there might be no need to have like webserver and whatnot in seperate VMs, but it helps a lot to understand things |
| 13:32.51 | onnik | or atleast an objective |
| 13:33.02 | dvs | Haohmaru, LVM allows you to change the existing partition sizes dynamically |
| 13:33.06 | ksk | Haohmaru: no, it adds a layer in between physical devices and partitions. |
| 13:33.23 | Haohmaru | yeah, and maybe.. i don't need it for now |
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| 13:34.03 | onnik | I think it comes more in handy for certain scenarios like Servers and shared hosting |
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| 13:34.35 | ksk | totally, yes. |
| 13:34.36 | Haohmaru | i'm merely using debian for CAD'ing and browsing and sh*t |
| 13:34.39 | dvs | Haohmaru, if the partitions are already made without LVM, it's already too late. |
| 13:34.53 | onnik | Normally for a home PC it's not a big deal to throw a new disk in and move some stuff to it |
| 13:35.13 | onnik | But for a server that's always up, it makes more sense to have the flexiblity because disk ain't always cheap |
| 13:35.23 | Haohmaru | i think the disk at home is 500GB or something |
| 13:35.29 | Haohmaru | i won't fill that up any time soon |
| 13:35.38 | Haohmaru | i've even left probably half of it unallocated |
| 13:36.30 | onnik | ksk: thanks for that, I might come up with a few services and requirements. That will give me objectives to try complete |
| 13:37.27 | Haohmaru | objective1: pimp up the debian so it visually looks like win98SE |
| 13:37.29 | onnik | I find that when I need to know some of these things, it's too late and I'm scrambling. But more or less for learning things in general |
| 13:37.45 | onnik | Haohmaru: or use KVM to install Win98SE :) |
| 13:37.52 | Haohmaru | no |
| 13:38.01 | Haohmaru | i got win98SE on another machine |
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| 13:39.02 | Haohmaru | back when crapdows wasn't such a big pile of crap ;P~ |
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| 13:39.07 | b1ack0p | hi |
| 13:39.11 | b1ack0p | bash: rfkill: command not found |
| 13:39.23 | b1ack0p | doesnt debian have rfkill? |
| 13:39.23 | ksk | ,file rfkill |
| 13:39.28 | judd | Search for rfkill in buster/amd64: systemd: lib/systemd/systemd-rfkill; rfkill: usr/sbin/rfkill, usr/share/bash-completion/completions/rfkill; gnome-settings-daemon: usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gsd-rfkill; bash-completion: usr/share/bash-completion/completions/_rfkill |
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| 13:39.41 | b1ack0p | what? |
| 13:40.02 | b1ack0p | i am using 32bit |
| 13:40.07 | Haohmaru | you probably either don't have it installed or you are supposed to be root to run it |
| 13:40.09 | ksk | b1ack0p: it shows you packages containing rfkill, you are looking for a package called "rfkill" (surpise!) |
| 13:40.09 | Haohmaru | or sumfin |
| 13:40.23 | ksk | and yes, you need to be root. also keep in mind su behaviour changed with buster |
| 13:40.25 | ksk | !buster su |
| 13:40.25 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 13:40.43 | b1ack0p | ksk: english please |
| 13:40.50 | b1ack0p | i am not that expert |
| 13:41.06 | b1ack0p | i tried with sudo but it didnt work also |
| 13:41.10 | Haohmaru | i think you should be doing "su -" |
| 13:41.25 | ksk | b1ack0p: soo, did you install the rfkill package already, or not? |
| 13:41.29 | Haohmaru | and don't forget to "exit" out of root when you're done |
| 13:41.49 | b1ack0p | ksk: it seems not |
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| 14:35.44 | Akuw | hi guys |
| 14:36.29 | Rafaga2k | Hi! I'm having some problems with wheezy box |
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| 14:37.23 | Rafaga2k | I'm trying to configure Ethernet interfaces but the config is not persisting between reboots |
| 14:37.40 | Rafaga2k | any idea how to make permanent the changes ? |
| 14:37.46 | Haohmaru | what if i told u that woz fixed in newer debianz? |
| 14:38.06 | ksk | Rafaga2k: how are you configuring? I suppose e/n/i is kind of the way to go without systemd ;) |
| 14:38.10 | tomreyn | Rafaga2k: are you araware that wheezy is EOL? |
| 14:38.11 | avu | Rafaga2k: depends on what exactly you mean, but probably you want /etc/network/interfaces |
| 14:38.17 | ksk | wheezy is totally end of support btw, you shuld upgrade |
| 14:38.20 | jelly | !interfaces |
| 14:38.21 | dpkg | Your network configuration is in the file /etc/network/interfaces ; "man 5 interfaces" for documentation, "zless /usr/share/doc/ifupdown/examples/network-interfaces.gz" for example configurations. Start and stop your networking with ifup -a and ifdown -a respectively. http://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration . See also <dhcp client>, <resolv.conf>, <static route>. |
| 14:38.28 | Rafaga2k | I know wheezy is EOL |
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| 14:38.44 | Akuw | use nmtui |
| 14:38.53 | jelly | wheezy has ELTS, just for amd64 and i386, until... uh, May 2020 or so |
| 14:38.58 | Rafaga2k | I'm configuring the interfaces with ifconfig directly |
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| 14:39.26 | nvz | heh |
| 14:39.29 | ksk | nope, wheezy ELTS ended ~2019-12-31 - or thats what the wiki says |
| 14:39.41 | nvz | !elts |
| 14:39.41 | dpkg | Limited commercial support for wheezy exists in form of Extended LTS, see https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended and https://deb.freexian.com/extended-lts/ |
| 14:40.00 | ksk | Rafaga2k: that is not persistant. you have to use e/n/i. |
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| 14:40.14 | Rafaga2k | e/n/i ? |
| 14:40.21 | ksk | !e/n/i |
| 14:40.25 | joepublic | etc. network. interfaces. |
| 14:40.28 | ksk | eh. etc/network/interfaces |
| 14:40.34 | Rafaga2k | sorry I don't understand I'm not so familiar with Debian distros |
| 14:40.43 | nvz | ksk: https://deb.freexian.com/extended-lts/updates/ela-205-1-git/ |
| 14:40.48 | ksk | its the same across many (all?) linux distros.. |
| 14:41.34 | nvz | considering that update for weezy was just made today, I wouldnt say ELTS has ended |
| 14:41.45 | ksk | I see. |
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| 14:42.45 | ksk | Rafaga2k: see the links from dpkg |
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| 14:45.01 | Akuw | ksk: yesterday i just created Package file using dpkg-scanpackages |
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| 14:45.41 | Akuw | but now when try to install one of the new packages i got E: Failed to fetch file:/srv/local-apt-repository/local-apt-repository/dialog_1.2-20140911-1_amd64.deb File not found |
| 14:46.06 | ksk | that is interesting, but you definitely used up your contingent of free support hours from me. |
| 14:46.08 | Akuw | but in Packages file i hve Filename: local-apt-repository/dialog_1.2-20140911-1_amd64.deb |
| 14:47.01 | ksk | and until you state "I want to install X" - which for some reason you seem not be willing to share - I would advise anyone else to also ignore you. |
| 14:47.39 | Akuw | to install dialog package |
| 14:47.51 | Akuw | but first i am explaining scenario |
| 14:48.18 | joepublic | the way to explain scenario is to start with important part first. |
| 14:48.25 | DrJ | is there any difference between the commands "apt install <package>" and "apt-get install <package>"? |
| 14:48.26 | joepublic | you are not doing that. just helpful information for you. |
| 14:48.44 | joepublic | Drj, not really |
| 14:48.45 | ksk | DrJ: apt is for endusers nowadays, so use that (it has fancy colors!) |
| 14:49.08 | DrJ | that's what I thought |
| 14:49.15 | nvz | DrJ: yes, there are a lot of differences.. apt by default installs recommended and such |
| 14:49.16 | Rafaga2k | ksk: dpkg Thanks |
| 14:49.22 | ksk | nothing wrong with useing apt-get as far as I know. |
| 14:49.32 | DrJ | I've used "apt" for a while now since I'm lazy but have wondered |
| 14:49.47 | DrJ | I mean, those 4 extra keystrokes are nice to avoid |
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| 14:53.07 | joepublic | I don't "apt search" because often I pipe the results to less, and apt complains -- apt-cache search doesn't complain |
| 14:53.41 | michel-433 | problem to connect from my debian to my raspberrypi3 b+, any advice please ? |
| 14:53.51 | michel-433 | using ssh |
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| 14:54.07 | DrJ | michael_mbp: raspberrypi has ssh disabled by default nowadays |
| 14:54.35 | DrJ | https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/remote-access/ssh/ <-- see point 3 |
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| 15:05.26 | michel-433 | Hi DrJ thank you for your comment about ssh, do you have any useful link for me ? Thanks ! michel |
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| 15:09.22 | Akuw | when you run dpkg-scanpackages could be Packages does not have all packages in the list? |
| 15:09.45 | Akuw | because i check the resulting Packages file and has a diferent number of packages |
| 15:10.26 | Akuw | for example li do ls -l *.deb and cat Packages | grep Filename |
| 15:10.34 | Akuw | and got diferent number of packages |
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| 15:13.29 | Akuw | ls -l *.deb | nl --> 495 Lines |
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| 15:14.15 | Akuw | cat Packages | awk -F"/" '/Filename/{print $2}' | nl --> 485 Lines |
| 15:14.24 | Akuw | so there is a diference |
| 15:15.11 | Akuw | so the question is, the number of packages should be the same right? |
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| 15:37.03 | jimmy_ | hello guys |
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| 15:42.24 | jelly | Akuw: a typical repo can only have the latest version of a package. If you have foo_1.0_amd64.deb and foo_1.1_amd64.deb in the same directory, dpkg-scanpackages will only include 1.1 in the Packages list. It will also complain about multiple packages with same name during the creation IIRC. |
| 15:42.53 | Akuw | jelly: thanks |
| 15:43.38 | jelly | Akuw: did dpkg-scanpackages, in fact, make some output when you were creating the Packages list? |
| 15:46.57 | Akuw | yes |
| 15:48.36 | Akuw | dpkg-scanpackages: warning: package mqge (filename local-apt-repository/mqge_1.2.2_amd64.deb) is repeat; ignored that one and using data from local-apt-repository/mqge-2.1.0.deb! |
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| 15:50.35 | michel-433 | hello, have a problem with using gpio rasbberry3 b+, gpio read 0 LED ON, gpio read 1 LED OFF, anyone to help me please ? Thanks ! |
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| 16:18.12 | b1ack0p | hi there |
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| 16:38.06 | volter | I just upgraded a Jessie host to Buster that is running a single LXC guest. |
| 16:38.18 | volter | I did the automatic config file upgrade. |
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| 16:39.30 | komunista | hi all |
| 16:39.33 | volter | However, the guest won't start. |
| 16:39.52 | jelly | volter: hopefully you did it in two steps, first 8->9 then 9->10 ? |
| 16:40.06 | volter | Yes |
| 16:40.12 | volter | No such file or directory - Failed to set AppArmor label "lxc-container-default-cgns" |
| 16:40.24 | volter | This is what I get when I run it in foreground. |
| 16:40.53 | volter | I'm not sure what exactly I'm missing here. |
| 16:42.56 | volter | I've got the hunch that his might be a subsequent fault. |
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| 16:48.00 | jelly | I'm clueless about both lxc and apparmor, but it sounds like something apparmory is either missing, not active, or misconfigured |
| 16:48.43 | jelly | and googling that error yields #918842 |
| 16:48.44 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/918842 in lxc (closed): «AppArmor profile lxc-containers not loaded on installation, leading to operation="change_profile" info="label not found"»; severity: important; opened: 2019-01-09; last modified: 2019-02-13. |
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| 16:52.20 | greycat | lsb-release suggests "lsb" which... doesn't exist and has nothing providing it? Am I reading this correctly? |
| 16:52.48 | jelly | yes, lsb is gone |
| 16:52.53 | petn-randall | michel-433: This is a Debian support channel, you might have more luck asking in the raspberry pi or raspbian channel. |
| 16:52.57 | petn-randall | !raspberry |
| 16:52.57 | dpkg | The Raspberry Pi is an open hardware design based on a Broadcom system-on-a-chip, requiring <non-free> <firmware>. Debian's <armel> port works fine, but does not use the Pi's hardware floating point unit. Debian's <armhf> port targets a newer revision of the ARM chip than is in the Pi, so armhf will not work on it. http://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ #raspberrypi on irc.freenode.net. |
| 16:53.18 | petn-randall | michel-433: ^^^ the channel is #raspberrypi |
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| 16:54.23 | Randolf | !fixmbr |
| 16:54.23 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 16:54.57 | p8m | dpkg: I think everything after the Raspberry pi 2 works with armhf |
| 16:54.58 | dpkg | p8m: bugger all, i dunno |
| 16:55.01 | jelly | Akuw: so dpkg-scanpackages told you it would ignore local-apt-repository/mqge_1.2.2_amd64.deb, that meant it would not put 1.2.2 in the resulting Packages file for the repo. Hence the difference. |
| 16:56.00 | Randolf | Damn, shutting off UEFI in the BIOS doesn't result in Debian installing without EFI. I'm glad this !fixmbr resource is here to help from Rescue Mode. |
| 16:56.36 | petn-randall | Randolf: It would if you'd do it. Or you have bugs in your BIOS. |
| 16:57.06 | volter | jelly: Meh, thank you for finding this, I only saw Ubuntu stuff. Actually, I'm not sure if this issue is actually resolved. apparmor_parser was not installed on this host. However, installing "apparmor apparmor-utils" immediately made it go away. |
| 16:57.21 | volter | It probably has a post-inst hook. |
| 16:57.40 | Randolf | petn-randall: I just went through all this last night too. I think the 10.2.0 installer is buggered up with installing GRUB because I didn't experience this problem at all when installing 10.1.0. |
| 16:57.41 | volter | (I ran no other command) |
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| 16:58.12 | jelly | volter: I just did a literal search for the more interesting part of the error message. https://google.com/search?q=Failed+to+set+AppArmor+label+"lxc-container-default-cgns" |
| 16:58.42 | volter | I went through startpage. Maybe that gave different results or I'm simply blind. |
| 16:58.46 | Randolf | petn-randall: Yup, and now it boots after getting nothing but fatal errors while attempt to force-install GRUB from Rescue Mode. |
| 16:58.46 | petn-randall | Randolf: If you boot in legacy mode your will technically prevent the booted system from accessing any UEFI functions, so even if the installer were buggy, it couldn't change any UEFI settings. |
| 16:58.58 | petn-randall | *your BIOS |
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| 16:59.42 | petn-randall | Randolf: I'm guessing your might have missed the less descriptive settings in your BIOS which still enable UEFI, e.g. CSM mode. |
| 17:00.08 | Randolf | petn-randall: I'm getting consistent problematic behaviour on a system that's 5 years old, and a new system with an Intel server motherboard that's 1 month old. |
| 17:00.53 | Randolf | petn-randall: CSM mode? I only have an option in this BIOS for affecting UEFI mode -- the options are: UEFI, Legacy, Both, and None. |
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| 17:01.37 | Randolf | (I'm working with the 5-year-old system right now.) |
| 17:02.15 | tomreyn | CSM is any value you set that that includes "Legacy" |
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| 17:02.37 | petn-randall | Randolf: I'm guessing the older one will have CSM support, it was quite typical for mobo's of that time. I've seen new one's that don't have it anymore. |
| 17:02.40 | tomreyn | i.e. "Legacy" or "Both" |
| 17:02.55 | petn-randall | tomreyn: Not necessarily, it's usually a separate setting. |
| 17:02.57 | Randolf | tomreyn: Ah, okay. The BIOS mentions Legacy but not CSM at all anywhere. |
| 17:03.10 | Randolf | is looking through the BIOS settings right now. |
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| 17:03.57 | petn-randall | Randolf: You might need to check the BIOS manual, manufacturers have very creative ways of naming that setting. It's separate from the one you mentioned. |
| 17:05.43 | Randolf | petn-randall: I actually don't think this is the problem. Ubuntu and NetBSD both install on these systems without any such troubles (I'm assuming NetBSD is not using UEFI though). I also didn't encounter these issues with Debian 10.1.0. Only 10.2.0's installer has these problems. |
| 17:06.51 | petn-randall | Randolf: What problem do you have exactly? You haven't described it yet. |
| 17:08.11 | Randolf | petn-randall: When I install Debian 10.2.0, the installer always fails when attempting to install GRUB. After rebooting, the GNU GRUB BASH command line appears instead of booting into Debian. So, I run the installer's Rescue Mode, go to a shell and run "grub-update && grub-install /dev/sda" which also fails. Then I reboot and Debian boots |
| 17:08.12 | Randolf | properly. |
| 17:08.37 | Randolf | This problem does not occur with Debian 10.1.0's installer. |
| 17:09.12 | Randolf | I'm getting the same experience on Intel (1 month old) and Gigabyte (5 years old) motherboards so far. |
| 17:09.34 | Randolf | (BIOS is up-to-date to current on both motherboards -- I always do this prior to installing any OS.) |
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| 17:09.56 | petn-randall | Randolf: If this issue is reproducible, I'm sure the debian-installer team will like to hear from this. I'd file a bug report to it, and offer to test a few things if needed. |
| 17:10.14 | Randolf | I'd be happy to. |
| 17:10.22 | Randolf | Where is the best place to file my report? |
| 17:10.33 | petn-randall | Randolf: If you need to get it running now, you can still use the old installer and just update, which will give you the same system state. |
| 17:10.57 | Randolf | It's working with 10.2.0's installer as long as I ignore the fatal errors in Rescue Mode. |
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| 17:11.29 | petn-randall | Randolf: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller |
| 17:11.47 | Randolf | Thanks! |
| 17:11.58 | petn-randall | There's a IRC channel, and also a mailing list. I'd poke them there to collect data, and then file a bug report when they ask you to. |
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| 17:13.59 | Randolf | Wow, there's a lot to read there. This is going to take a lot of time by the looks of it. |
| 17:14.28 | Randolf | I also don't see a form for submitting a simple bug report. |
| 17:14.45 | Randolf | Which IRC channel should I use for this? |
| 17:15.05 | Randolf | (I don't want to join any more eMail lists as I get way too much eMail as it is.) |
| 17:16.14 | petn-randall | Umm, you don't have to read all of it. Contact info is at the top. The mailinglist is open. |
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| 17:18.08 | petn-randall | You can also just use `reportbug` to file a bug against the "installation-reports" pseudo-package. |
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| 17:19.16 | Randolf | Okay, I see. Thanks! I'll try the "reportbug" command then. |
| 17:19.40 | Randolf | (Novice mode it is...) |
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| 17:21.34 | dae92 | hi i am running debian 10 and can't figure out how to get debian to recognize/browse my kindle tablet. it's a pretty old one too and people say it should just work, but it doesn't show up in my file manager. i installed gmtp and that can't detect it either |
| 17:23.21 | petn-randall | dae92: I think you need to use something like calibre to access it. |
| 17:23.33 | petn-randall | I don't think you get raw filesystem access to it for various reasons. |
| 17:24.41 | dae92 | petn-randall: oh ok, it runs a amazon branded version of android so i thought i could just plug in and browse it like i would be able to a phone |
| 17:25.03 | dae92 | nothing i read online mentions needing calibre |
| 17:25.51 | petn-randall | It does? I thought Amazon built their own firmware. |
| 17:26.35 | petn-randall | Even if it doesn't, it'll make life a lot easier. |
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| 17:28.44 | dae92 | yes it's android, at least on the fire tablet |
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| 17:29.07 | dae92 | would calibre let me add non-book files though, like video? |
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| 17:30.06 | petn-randall | dae92: It converts any format to the format the device understands. So if it can play videos, it will convert it. |
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| 17:32.59 | dae92 | petn-randall: cool |
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| 17:34.54 | dae92 | thanks petn-randall. if anyone else has success seeing a kindle's filesystem withotu calibre let me know, but in the meantime i will install that |
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| 17:43.31 | petn-randall | dae92: You probably have to do some black magic on the device itself to offer some kind of interface to your computer. |
| 17:46.03 | jhutchins_wk | dae92: Kindle's storage is in two different formats. The "books" are more like the way itunes stores music, it's not distinct ebook files that you could copy to another device and read them. Part of that is for DRM. |
| 17:46.50 | jhutchins_wk | dae92: You can put regular files, mobi ebook format, on the filesystem and the reader will present them as documents, sometimes with fewer features than regular file.s |
| 17:47.38 | jhutchins_wk | dae92: I tend to send non-drm files to my kindle with Amazon's email feature. |
| 17:48.00 | Randolf | petn-randall: I've been put into an editor after selecting "Yes" for sharing LVM information. Am I supposed to add my report here? |
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| 17:50.24 | Randolf | I think I'll assume "yes" and add my report to this file. |
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| 17:52.03 | petn-randall | Randolf: It should come with a template, so yes. |
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| 17:53.20 | dae92 | jhutchins_wk: because this is a rebranded android OS, i was able to install the fdroid app store on the device and install a seperate open source ebook reader, so i was planning on avoiding amazon's proprietary stuff |
| 17:55.05 | dae92 | jhutchins_wk: how do you copy files to the filesystem though? i can do the email method too but it would be cool to just drag and drop directly from a computer |
| 17:56.00 | dae92 | i suspect this might be an MTP issue. even though i have libmtp9. but when i go into the device's settings, i can see it presents itself to whatever OS you connect it to through MTP |
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| 18:04.50 | Randolf | petn-randall: Thanks. I just sent the bug report (along with a note of appreciation to everyone who's contributed to Debian Linux). |
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| 18:06.28 | petn-randall | Randolf: There's a good chance they'll need more info, but you should get those replies via mail. |
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| 18:08.46 | Randolf | I'll be glad to help where I can. |
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| 18:16.23 | riezaizu | Will the next release of Debian support 32-bit computers? |
| 18:17.02 | greycat | I'd bet a large amount of money on it. |
| 18:17.41 | greycat | It's hard to imagine all 32-bit platforms (especially i386) becoming unsupported any time soon. |
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| 18:18.03 | riezaizu | Thanks, I was talking about i386 btw |
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| 18:19.07 | jhutchins_wk | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:19.29 | greycat | how the hell would I know.. |
| 18:19.33 | riezaizu | jhutchins_wk, I don't think for 20-04 |
| 18:20.11 | ratrace | they long dropped 32-bit installers, and 20.04 will only support a limited multilib set (like for steam, wine and similar "strategic" programs) |
| 18:20.17 | ratrace | no 32bit kernel iirc tho |
| 18:20.26 | greycat | Hilarious. |
| 18:20.30 | petn-randall | Ubuntu planned on dropping it, but rolled back on the decision as steam said they'd drop Ubuntu support if they did. |
| 18:21.07 | ratrace | as for support in debian... maybe debian won't drop installers and packages but... consider the exponentially disappearing developer/testing support, especially for the kernel |
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| 18:22.10 | bzed | I know that ubuntu won't support ceph on i386... I've got a weird patch, it will build, but after those 1-2h no binary will be generated |
| 18:23.21 | annadane | reasons #12 i don't recommend ubuntu to new users |
| 18:23.28 | annadane | reaosn* |
| 18:23.31 | annadane | forget it |
| 18:23.39 | greycat | https://popcon.debian.org/ shows 174570 amd64 and 20277 i386. I'm not sure what those numbers are counting, exactly, but there they are. |
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| 18:23.58 | ratrace | they're counting pings received, for those packages, from computers that installed popcon |
| 18:24.17 | greycat | No package name is shown there. |
| 18:25.35 | ratrace | because it's arch summary. eg. 20277 i386 package installations were pinged via popcon |
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| 18:26.52 | jelly | most of my i386 installations run amd64 kernels now |
| 18:27.19 | ratrace | personally I think dropping i386 is only a bonus. the tech is ancient (first consumer 64-bit cpus were widely available 10+ years ago), and receives very little testing and x86_32 specific development (like the kernel) |
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| 18:27.36 | greycat | "10 years old" is not ancient enough to drop support |
| 18:27.52 | greycat | maybe for "ooh shiny" toy distros like Ubuntu |
| 18:27.53 | jelly | some "tech" has been running for 40-50 years now |
| 18:28.01 | ratrace | greycat: in FOSS? totally is. who's gonna pay for that |
| 18:28.22 | ratrace | infra and effort required to build all that crap for what.... 5% of users? |
| 18:28.58 | greycat | 20277/(20277+174570) is just over 10% |
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| 18:29.19 | ratrace | assuming popcon statistics is reliable |
| 18:29.29 | greycat | Sure, of course. |
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| 18:30.15 | joepublic | popcon stats are what they are, and perfectly reliable as such |
| 18:30.27 | greycat | we don't have any *better* data sources AFAIK |
| 18:30.54 | ratrace | meanwhile, with bullseye still supporting x86_32, that means 2021 + LTS, slowly bordering ** 20 ** years.... I'd really love if bullseye+1 would drop x86_32 |
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| 18:31.17 | ratrace | joepublic: they're unreliable because nobody knows how representative the sample is |
| 18:31.28 | ratrace | eg. I'm not installing popcon on any of the 200+ machines under my control |
| 18:31.39 | joepublic | they are perfectly reliable because they are "a survey of popcon users" and nothing more. |
| 18:31.41 | greycat | I install it on my home machine, but not the work machiens. |
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| 18:31.46 | ratrace | "unreliable" in terms of statistical analysis |
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| 18:32.24 | joepublic | statistical analysis is impossible with something that doesn't phone home. that's a feature, not a bug. |
| 18:32.38 | ratrace | irrelevant to the fact that popcon has no inferential value :) |
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| 18:33.18 | ratrace | last night, 50% population of village X died. genocide? natural disaster? no.... pop=2, one died. |
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| 18:33.41 | greycat | I don't think you can use the word village there. |
| 18:33.52 | ratrace | therefore without N, a lot of statistical analysis has zero value. like, average is useless without std, which requries N |
| 18:33.57 | petn-randall | ratrace: But 2 << 20277 |
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| 18:34.02 | joepublic | if something gets a hit in popcon, then it is 100% for sure being used by someone. If something doesn't get a hit, then there is simply no data about it. |
| 18:34.21 | greycat | "A village is a clustered human settlement or community, larger than a hamlet but smaller than a town, with a population ranging from a few hundred to a few thousand. " |
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| 18:34.54 | joepublic | extrapolation from popcon stats has historically been useful. |
| 18:35.07 | joepublic | That's all anyone should ask of popcon. |
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| 18:35.26 | ratrace | it's indication at best. without N, the data is statistically irrelevant. |
| 18:35.46 | joepublic | statistical analysis is impossible with something that doesn't phone home. that's a feature, not a bug. |
| 18:36.38 | ratrace | precisely, thus statistically value of popcon is zero. |
| 18:36.41 | joepublic | I hear that Windows 10, for example, phones home a report of every program and document opened. You can get great stats out of that. |
| 18:36.55 | lupine | kill it |
| 18:37.11 | joepublic | Ah, but the value of popcon is nonzero despite its not being a source of rigorous statistics. |
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| 18:37.37 | annadane | popcon is useful. |
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| 18:37.56 | lupine | popcon is how all metrics should be done |
| 18:37.59 | annadane | i don't know how to do it in a way which is better statistically but also more invasive |
| 18:37.59 | lupine | polite, opt-in, anonymous |
| 18:38.06 | ratrace | it's as useful as the netcraft freebsd trollpost that calculated number of users based on percentages of mailing list submissions. |
| 18:38.17 | annadane | no. |
| 18:38.32 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 18:38.39 | ratrace | it's virtually the SAME thing. no N of sample size, no estimate of population, just numbers from those that use mailinglist^W popcon |
| 18:38.43 | greycat | Clearly he's just trolling us, so I'm not going to respond any more. |
| 18:38.50 | joepublic | I know this might be hard for some to believe, but it's possible to voluntarily show support for the packages you use by running popcon. |
| 18:38.56 | greycat | A *large* number of Debian users are still on i386. |
| 18:38.58 | ratrace | I'm not trolling, I just understand the math |
| 18:39.15 | joepublic | you seem to understand the math of something not related to popcon. |
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| 18:40.31 | ratrace | *shrug* |
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| 19:34.19 | eclips0 | Have anyone tried running Proxmox on a Debian buster server. Got a server for Christmas and was wondering if anyone has experience with Proxmox on Debian |
| 19:34.39 | eclips0 | ? |
| 19:36.05 | ksk | !proxmox |
| 19:36.05 | dpkg | Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial ##proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Get_support |
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| 19:39.32 | tds | pve 6 is based on buster and works nicely, ask in ##proxmox if you have any questions etc :) |
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| 20:10.03 | robogoat | Anybody know what happened to the debian nightlies last night? |
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| 20:56.08 | Aelu | Xeon CPU master race prove me wrong |
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| 21:15.59 | akira893 | xeon is nice |
| 21:16.05 | akira893 | i have a 8 core xeon right now |
| 21:16.07 | akira893 | pretty sick |
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| 21:25.55 | wikan | hi, anyone uses xbindkeys? I am trying to bind keys but I wanna to use keysyms not keycodes |
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| 21:26.23 | wikan | i am trying to setup second keyboard with different leyout |
| 21:26.40 | wikan | but xbindkeys seems to be layout independent |
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| 21:59.19 | rander2 | hello |
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| 21:59.35 | joepublic | h'lo |
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| 22:01.52 | b1ack0p | sup |
| 22:02.30 | rander2 | how use different route for 2 different program ? |
| 22:03.43 | rander2 | If I have 2 different route, how may I use one route for a program, and other for another |
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| 22:05.19 | joepublic | more detail? |
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| 22:09.57 | rander2 | I have 2 IP, one eth0 and ppp0 , how may I use one for ssh client for example ? Is it possible set up application level routing ? |
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| 22:12.19 | greycat | it might be easier to set up routing rules based on what UID is making the connection |
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| 22:15.24 | dmzpub | you can mark packets by a lot of different criteria... by uid, by proto and port and any of the dozens of netfilter options |
| 22:15.36 | dmzpub | then you need to route those marked packets as dessired |
| 22:15.46 | dmzpub | like in: https://lartc.org/howto/lartc.netfilter.html |
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| 22:20.17 | rander2 | so I must use iptables to do this |
| 22:22.49 | dmzpub | mmm for permanent things, maybe better |
| 22:23.02 | dmzpub | you can also use network namespaces |
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| 22:38.21 | rander2 | thx |
| 22:38.26 | rander2 | good nighbt |
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| 22:38.29 | rander2 | night |
| 22:38.43 | dmzpub | have a good night |
| 22:38.53 | rander2 | u too |
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| 22:40.31 | dmzpub | i'm trying alternatives to fluxbox, but... I don't know, maybe too many years using the same... always come back to it |
| 22:40.47 | dmzpub | the only contender until now, is kde |
| 22:41.13 | dmzpub | was my first desktop in the 90's... and wow, it has improved a lot |
| 22:41.43 | dmzpub | is there something to generate dynamic contextual menus in kde ? |
| 22:42.11 | dmzpub | I had a few crontabs, etc generating menus for my fluxbox, and I just miss that in kde |
| 22:42.31 | Miles8of9 | end '90s.. my first wm..... fvwm95!!! |
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| 22:43.43 | dmzpub | no internet at home in that years... a suse CD... gnome was hugly, kde was nice :) |
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| 22:44.02 | Miles8of9 | kde was heavy and buggy!! |
| 22:44.23 | dmzpub | yes ! everything was buggy in the 9x's hehe |
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| 22:45.10 | dmzpub | so.. is there some window manager or DE, where it's easy to generate your own menus ? |
| 22:45.15 | Miles8of9 | then someone migrated from libc5 which was quite stable and reliable to glibc6.... BOOOMM..!! |
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| 22:46.04 | dmzpub | like SSH/IPMI/foobar shortcuts to all my servers/IPMI/switches/PDUs in structured menus |
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| 22:46.22 | dmzpub | I miss that when I go out of fluxbox |
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| 22:47.03 | dmzpub | menus that are text-editable, can use includes and have hot-reload when cron updates them |
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| 22:47.45 | Miles8of9 | i use gnome now... there are no menus, no icons on desktop... no shortcuts.. no nothing!! desktop is totally empty! :D |
| 22:48.32 | dmzpub | for example... "fetch the jira issues assigned to me, an place an entry in this submenu" and thins like that |
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| 22:49.26 | dmzpub | I suppose those heavy DE, may need some GU dev to do things like this |
| 22:49.37 | dmzpub | *GUI |
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| 22:50.35 | dmzpub | fluxbox is totally empty too by default |
| 22:50.46 | rtra | Miles8of9: I'm staring at my stumpwm and contemplating the meaning of emptiness. |
| 22:51.19 | dmzpub | gnome started removing basic settings, and now is like a heavy window manager |
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| 22:53.55 | dmzpub | fluxbox is funkky... you can do whatever you want with the main menu, but default debian menus got broken at some point |
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| 23:02.35 | ksk | yeay, fluxbox! the default debian menus do work over here ;) |
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| 23:12.41 | dmzpub | mmm looks like to add custom menus to things like kde, one could need to add stuff under ~/.local/share/applications/foobar.desktop |
| 23:13.22 | dmzpub | looks harder to automate and more vebose than fluxbox custom menus, but this could work |
| 23:14.00 | dmzpub | *verbose |
| 23:15.04 | dmzpub | still not sure howto structure this, asside of "categories".... no nested menus I think |
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| 23:20.35 | Guest3683 | Hello i have a question regarding kernel upgrade, or guideline how to build custom kernel for NAS hardware QNAP TS-109 |
| 23:20.58 | Guest3683 | i stumbled upon this github page and was immidieatly replyed to ask here. |
| 23:21.09 | Guest3683 | https://github.com/ev3dev/flash-kernel |
| 23:21.19 | Guest3683 | https://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2019/07/msg00098.html |
| 23:22.09 | Guest14607 | https://pastebin.com/raw/zJsUGHUy |
| 23:22.48 | Guest14607 | Output from device currently running armel arch Debian 9.11 stretch. Please if anyone know's how i could compile custom kernel or upgrade it's kernel to a newer version i would be so thankful |
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| 23:28.22 | Guest14607 | David Lechner who forked this project kernel-flash https://github.com/ev3dev/flash-kernel |
| 23:28.59 | Guest14607 | told me to ask you guys how i could compile kernel for QNAP TS-109 or how i could proceed downloading newer kernel armel architecture packages, and install it through that way.? |
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| 23:35.53 | petn-randall | Guest14607: Does running the stock kernel from Debian work for you? |
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| 23:38.54 | tramboliko | Hello everyone, I would like to get some advice on a very strange issue I'm getting with buster |
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| 23:39.09 | Guest14607 | petn-randall: it does work yes, but i want to be assure that it can do release upgrade, and upgrades of package mirrors |
| 23:39.39 | Guest14607 | petn-randall: i would actually like to experiment and develop a custom kernel for this machine, is that possible with the pre-requirements i attached to it? |
| 23:40.02 | Guest14607 | i want it to perform as a minimal footprint fileserver, i guess NFS would be best performance wise, and ofc cifs shares. |
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| 23:41.12 | Guest14607 | petn-randall: thank you for reply me, i was adviced by David Lechner |
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| 23:41.23 | Guest14607 | petn-randall: https://pastebin.com/WXQXcmY1 output from the machine the contents |
| 23:41.43 | petn-randall | Guest14607: Then I don't see a reason to compile your own kernel. You can do a release upgrade, and boot into the new kernel. If that fails, just select the old one upon booting. |
| 23:42.46 | Guest14607 | petn-randall: thank you so much. I will try a release upgrade right away. Should i do it by executing do-release upgrade -d ? |
| 23:43.30 | petn-randall | Guest14607: That isn't a Debian command, so I can't say anything about it. |
| 23:43.40 | petn-randall | Guest14607: What OS are you running? |
| 23:44.13 | Guest14607 | petn-randall: istributor ID: Debian |
| 23:44.13 | Guest14607 | Description: Debian GNU/Linux 9.11 (stretch) |
| 23:44.13 | Guest14607 | Release: 9.11 |
| 23:44.13 | Guest14607 | Codename: stretch |
| 23:44.41 | Guest14607 | petn-randall: i found this on Google, i guess it's the way to do it.? https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#newkernel |
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| 23:44.54 | Guest14607 | but this is written amd64 architecture |
| 23:44.59 | petn-randall | Guest14607: Where does the command 'do-release' come from, then? |
| 23:45.14 | Guest14607 | probably i don't want any AMD64 packages installed from apt package sources package mirrors. |
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| 23:46.09 | petn-randall | Yeah, because those are the release notes for amd64 (it says so in the URL). You'll have to read the release notes for your architecture. |
| 23:46.19 | tramboliko | So I installed buster a week ago and it ran perfectly until yesterday when WiFi stopped working, I have since reinstalled and have not been able to get wifi working again. The graphical installer connects to the internet without problems but when I reboot it does not work |
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| 23:46.43 | petn-randall | tramboliko: Do you have the firmware installed for the wifi device? |
| 23:47.26 | Guest14607 | petn-randall: do-release upgrade comes from the binary update-core in ubuntu but in Debian im not sure to be true. |
| 23:47.28 | tramboliko | I used the non-free live image to install |
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| 23:49.12 | petn-randall | tramboliko: Then it should install the firmware, too. But you might want to verify to be sure. |
| 23:49.13 | Guest14607 | petn-randall: i will try apt-get -y update ; apt-get -y upgrade ; apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 23:49.35 | petn-randall | Guest14607: I think those are the instructions, but you should read the release notes and verify. |
| 23:50.07 | coruja | Guest14607, for further reading (if i got you right above): https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/armel/index.en.html |
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| 23:51.38 | tramboliko | I seem to have the drivers yet it doesn't connect, it shows available connections though but it gets stuck on the interface setup step |
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| 23:53.58 | tramboliko | Also I disabled mac randomization since it seemed to help other users but the issue remains |
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| 23:55.44 | Guest14607 | coruja: thank you, and i must politely ask |
| 23:56.10 | Guest14607 | coruja: do you recommend me to replace stretch to buster within the file /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 23:56.36 | Guest14607 | coruja: in other words ( # sed -i 's/stretch/buster/g' /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 23:57.10 | coruja | Guest14607, as long as there are no strong reasons against, it's always recommended to run the current stable release |
| 23:57.50 | Guest14607 | coruja: thank you so much for your reply |
| 23:58.09 | Guest14607 | coruja: i want to make this QNAP TS-109 more efficient, to work more properly with the contents it is of. |
| 23:58.19 | coruja | Guest14607, but the stretch (=oldstable) release will be supported for still a while too |
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