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| 00:01.18 | tramboliko | I know that wifi issues are a dime a dozen but I really don't get how I pulled a week of smooth use to then have a problem that persists through formatting |
| 00:02.32 | tramboliko | Anything I could've done should be wiped out after a clean install correct? |
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| 00:04.36 | coruja | Guest14607, and yes, if you want to upgrade to buster, then substitute stretch by buster as you suggested, then apt update, apt dist-upgrade (and mind reading carefully what apt says before hitting enter, as always) |
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| 00:05.51 | petn-randall | tramboliko: How do the wifi issues show? Might not be software-related at all. |
| 00:06.07 | dvs | coruja, you forgot apt upgrade |
| 00:06.49 | coruja | dvs, is that necessary? as far as i know it isn't (but good practice) |
| 00:07.04 | dvs | coruja, according to the release notes, yes |
| 00:07.18 | coruja | oh, ok |
| 00:07.50 | coruja | Guest14607, then: apt update, apt upgrade, apt dist-upgrade |
| 00:09.20 | tramboliko | petn-randall: The first boot after install it shows as connected yet I couldn't ping google or the router. After disconnecting it is no longer able to connect to the wifi again, on KDE it gets stuck the configuring interface step and then it just stops |
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| 00:10.30 | petn-randall | tramboliko: Have you checked the logs to it, and can you share the output? |
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| 00:13.15 | tramboliko | petn-randall: I had to format the drive but I can do a fresh install, will you be around in half an hour or so? |
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| 00:38.02 | wonderful | hello, people! |
| 00:38.13 | wonderful | one question! |
| 00:38.43 | Thedarkb | Sure, fire away :) |
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| 00:40.30 | wonderful | i have gmplib based programm, i read manual: "Counts of bits of a multi-precision number are represented in the C type mp_bitcnt_t. Currently this is always an unsigned long, but on some systems it will be an unsigned long long in the future. " , but i can set 0xe ffff ffff and it do something! is |
| 00:40.30 | wonderful | it wrong behavior? |
| 00:42.19 | wonderful | i do not know right or wrong it calculates but i'm waiting for result just now) |
| 00:43.07 | wonderful | may be author just forget to throw exception? |
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| 00:46.32 | wonderful | and second question: where to learn algorithms for long arithmetics, i wanna some experiments with calculations:) |
| 00:46.53 | wonderful | ? |
| 00:48.12 | wonderful | Thedarkb, may be fire in ##math? |
| 00:48.36 | Thedarkb | I'm really not sure. |
| 00:48.51 | Thedarkb | ##programming might help you, too. |
| 00:49.12 | wonderful | thanks |
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| 00:49.43 | Thedarkb | I just got a telling off in there for abusing the C pre-processor :) |
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| 00:50.52 | wonderful | how's life? what's up? |
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| 00:52.33 | wonderful | smilling is cool, i see! |
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| 00:52.54 | Thedarkb | Not much. |
| 00:53.01 | Thedarkb | I'm working on a little 2D RPG. |
| 00:54.00 | wonderful | i'm gaming from time to time but was tied off |
| 00:54.35 | Thedarkb | I just split the main source into a few files because it was getting a bit cumbersome. |
| 00:56.16 | wonderful | sorry, my tongue is rude, my english is poor so we'll better silencing a little, bb! |
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| 01:36.56 | tramboliko | Greetings, I'm having a persistent wifi connection issue on my new buster install, I used the nonfree 10.2 live image and it was able to recognize the card and connect during the graphical install |
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| 01:45.49 | tramboliko | My wifi card worked perfectly for like a week, now I can't even ping at all even though it says it's connected |
| 01:48.14 | petn-randall | tramboliko: So ... about those logs? |
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| 01:51.12 | tramboliko | petn-randall: Which logs do want to see? |
| 01:53.04 | petn-randall | tramboliko: /var/log/syslog when the connection fails. You can use https://paste.debian.net to share it. |
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| 02:01.40 | tramboliko | petn-randall: https://paste.debian.net/1125084/ |
| 02:02.49 | tramboliko | petn-randall: currently connected yet it is pretty much all lost packages |
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| 02:07.44 | ross` | I realise this is unsupported but if anyone has worked through this before I'd really appreeciate the help. I have a windows virtualbox host and a debian quest. It would be great if seamless mode would work or resizing from the virtualbox. I followed the instructions here but it's nopt working: https://people.debian.org/~lucas/virtualbox-buster/ |
| 02:08.18 | petn-randall | tramboliko: Did you connect Ethernet after testing it? |
| 02:09.05 | petn-randall | ross`: Which part is not working? Install the virtualbox package? |
| 02:10.25 | tramboliko | petn-randall: I'm using a wired connection that's working fine through usb, only wifi isn't working |
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| 02:11.25 | petn-randall | tramboliko: I'm asking because I can see in the logs that Ethernet is connected, which would take precedence over wifi. |
| 02:12.08 | petn-randall | And timesyncd is only complaining about a timeout *after* Ethernet is connected. |
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| 02:16.41 | tramboliko | petn-randall: I wired it to update and troubleshoot since wifi wasn't working, right now it isn't wired and wifi is apparently connected but I get aping every hundred lost packets |
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| 02:17.25 | petn-randall | tramboliko: Do you have a good connection when you sit next to the AP? |
| 02:18.05 | petn-randall | like ~1m distance without obstacles? |
| 02:19.00 | ross` | petn-randall: the installation worked. |
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| 02:19.04 | ross` | It's just none of the fancy features are working. |
| 02:19.38 | tramboliko | petn-randall: Yes, other devices and os's connect with no issues |
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| 02:25.46 | petn-randall | tramboliko: Hmm, I can't find any firmware for it in any firmware package. You have a TP-Link device, right? |
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| 02:28.58 | tramboliko | petn-randall: It's an atheros network adapter |
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| 02:42.29 | petn-randall | tramboliko: Do you have firmware-atheros installed? |
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| 02:46.14 | qwazx | Hi. How can I check/see that the packages downloaded by 'sudo apt-get install something' are validated by some sort of gpg signature or something? |
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| 02:56.01 | DarwinElf | i'm trying to setup unattended-upgrades & apt-listchanges on Debian servers... I've done it on Debian-based distributions but on the real thing (which I hadn't used much since 1998 - '00) it seems /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades isn't well-documented and there's no webpage explaining clearly what options are (except pages that show an Ubuntu, different, version of that file)... I only want to install security updates and ones that will be |
| 02:56.01 | DarwinElf | stable. I don't understand what codename & archive & suite-based matching is... |
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| 03:02.51 | qwazx | does this mean that stable could get a security update that sid didn't get? "Sid exclusively gets security updates through its package maintainers. The Debian Security Team only maintains security updates for the current "stable" release. " |
| 03:03.11 | qwazx | quote from https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable |
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| 03:08.23 | tramboliko | petn-randall: Yes, the atheros firmware is already installed, it should be using the ath9k package |
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| 03:10.26 | petn-randall | tramboliko: I'm out of ideas then, sorry. :/ |
| 03:11.27 | qwazx | what does this mean? unattended-upgrades? what program does that for me(presumably behind my back) ? "You may also want to disable or remove unattended-upgrades to be in control when package updates take place especially on unstable. " |
| 03:12.02 | tramboliko | petn-randall: Alrighty, thank you anyways! |
| 03:13.16 | petn-randall | qwazx: `apt show unattended-upgrades` |
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| 03:14.30 | qwazx | thanks |
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| 03:30.46 | warsoul | how can i set a firewall to protect my connection |
| 03:30.58 | warsoul | got connected to another network with my home IP |
| 03:31.58 | warsoul | and im getting +20 seconds lag |
| 03:31.58 | warsoul | :x |
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| 03:41.52 | warsoul | getting more than +30s lag |
| 03:41.53 | warsoul | omg |
| 03:43.39 | dvs | warsoul, https://wiki.debian.org//iptables |
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| 03:47.02 | tharkun | warsoul: "how can i set a firewall to protect my connection" is vague, ambiguous and nonsensical. Explain in ubiquitous language what you want. |
| 03:47.48 | warsoul | tharkun i think im getting attacked |
| 03:48.02 | warsoul | because im getting lags more than +30s |
| 03:48.39 | tharkun | No you are not. You might be connected to a lousy network. |
| 03:49.38 | warsoul | on all networks i am is the same thing |
| 03:49.44 | warsoul | different vps |
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| 03:50.50 | tharkun | read about iptables, iptables-save and iptables-restore. your friends might want to live in /etc/network/if-pre-up.d |
| 03:51.57 | tharkun | and /etc/iptables.up.rules are my favourite names for the ipv4 sets and ip6tables.up.rules is for the ipv6 ones. |
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| 03:53.53 | tharkun | IIRC there is a #netfilter channel on freenode.com that have very nice people helping out. And also IIRC iptables is beeing deprecated in favour of some new user space program that seems to do things better. Don't quote me on that one. I am not sure. |
| 03:56.57 | tharkun | warsoul: https://ral-arturo.org/2019/10/14/debian-netfilter.html |
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| 04:02.12 | ross` | Like seamless |
| 04:02.29 | ross` | oops |
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| 04:27.58 | sophy | wekcomr |
| 04:28.08 | sophy | ç森æé |
| 04:28.10 | sophy | 第ä¸æ¹çæ |
| 04:28.16 | sophy | 第ä¸æ¹çé
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¸é
¸é
¸é
¸é
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¸æç´¢ç®æ³ds |
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| 06:57.28 | tangarora_ | so.... what is the reason that debian enables the root account by default instead of insisting on you creating a separate user with sudo privs? |
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| 07:00.24 | rudi_s | tangarora_: I thought the default installer insists on a separate non-root user (and only the advanced installer permits only a root account). |
| 07:01.01 | rudi_s | But often you don't need a non-root user at all. |
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| 07:26.00 | ficklepickle | tangarora_: it's not clear in the installer, but if you don't enter a root password, it will not create the account and instead enable sudo. At least that is what I have heard. |
| 07:27.29 | nyov | where do the binaries in the initramfs come from? (specifically the /bin/mount binary?) |
| 07:28.15 | nyov | are these bins all busybox copies? |
| 07:28.32 | nyov | nevermind... they are |
| 07:28.51 | jm_ | yeah /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/zz-busybox creates that I believe |
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| 07:32.14 | CrazyTux | hi, how long is this kernel supported? |
| 07:32.15 | nyov | why are those all copies, instead of symlinks? 691KB per binary. wut |
| 07:32.18 | CrazyTux | Debian 5.3.9-2~bpo10+1 (2019-11-13) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 07:32.37 | jm_ | they are hard links |
| 07:33.06 | nyov | jm_: cpio supports hardlinks? |
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| 07:33.32 | jm_ | CrazyTux: 5.3 kernel is EOL-ed already |
| 07:33.55 | CrazyTux | jm_, oh. is it so. |
| 07:34.07 | nyov | oh indeed. hardlinks. nice |
| 07:34.09 | jm_ | CrazyTux: as far as upstream goes |
| 07:34.22 | CrazyTux | I will switch to some other version of kernel |
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| 07:34.31 | jm_ | nyov: hmm good question, let's see if documentation has an answer |
| 07:34.32 | CrazyTux | Linux mx 5.3.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.3.9-2~bpo10+1 (2019-11-13) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
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| 07:34.54 | CrazyTux | jm_, I'm using mx linux 19, which is based on Debian stable. |
| 07:35.15 | CrazyTux | I installed this kernel from debian backports. |
| 07:35.18 | jm_ | CrazyTux: we only support debian here, not any of derivatives |
| 07:36.01 | CrazyTux | jm_, kernel that is being used now is of this version. 5.3.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 |
| 07:36.17 | CrazyTux | Is this also EOL-ed? |
| 07:37.01 | jm_ | yeah looks like cpio has support for links |
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| 07:37.33 | jm_ | CrazyTux: hmm? I already said it is (5.3.18 is the latest upstream version) |
| 07:38.05 | CrazyTux | jm_, ok. I will switch to some other. |
| 07:38.56 | nyov | okay, now I'm stumped. Why can my XFS rootfs not be mounted by an older kernel initrd, when bin/mount inside is exactly the same as for the current kernel? |
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| 07:40.48 | nyov | this is just weird. initrd contents diff as the same, but older initrd mount fails with "invalid argument". must be the in-kernel xfs module I guess. |
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| 07:41.38 | rudi_s | Yeah, sounds like a kernel issue. |
| 07:42.08 | jm_ | no more details in dmesg output? |
| 07:42.58 | nyov | jm_: I don't think I saw anything. let me doublecheck |
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| 07:44.08 | jm_ | at work we use centos for our virtual appliance and when upgrading from ver 7 to 8 we noticed some incompatible differences (older ver can't mount FS creates with new ver) |
| 07:44.18 | jm_ | created* |
| 07:44.42 | nyov | ah, I booted in recovery mode, now it says. Superblock has unknown incompatible features. dang, I kinda thought that must be it |
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| 07:45.42 | jm_ | yeah that's the same as for us |
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| 08:01.31 | nyov | the actual message is: Superblock has unknown incompatible features (0x2) enabled. |
| 08:01.41 | nyov | now if only I could figure out what the 0x2 refers to |
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| 08:02.32 | nyov | because some of these features can be disabled again |
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| 08:39.51 | DarwinElf | don't use snap |
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| 08:42.34 | dreamer | "just use flatpak" |
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| 08:43.01 | nyov | don't drink and drive |
| 08:43.33 | nyov | obvious, no? :P |
| 08:43.34 | plantroon | with ifenslave bonding setup, is it possible to automatically make the faster adapter active in active-backup configuration? |
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| 08:51.32 | nyov | plantroon: why not? just set active_slave parameter to the faster device |
| 08:52.51 | nyov | at least I think that should work |
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| 08:56.24 | plantroon | oh :D but is there any way to automatically determine the faster one ? :( |
| 08:58.22 | nyov | plantroon: maybe with some mii-tool scripting? mii-tool -v ethX |
| 08:58.39 | plantroon | yeah we have scripts in place already, I wanted to nuke them :D |
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| 09:00.22 | nyov | ... |
| 09:01.07 | nyov | well then your answer is here somewhere: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/drivers/net/bonding |
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| 09:02.21 | DarwinElf | i'm trying to setup unattended-upgrades & apt-listchanges on Debian servers... I've done it on Debian-based distributions but on the real thing (which I hadn't used much since 1998 - '00) it seems /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades isn't well-documented and there's no webpage explaining clearly what options are (except pages that show an Ubuntu, different, version of that file)... I only want to install security updates and ones that will be |
| 09:02.21 | DarwinElf | stable. I don't understand what codename & archive & suite-based matching is... |
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| 09:03.39 | jm_ | /usr/share/doc/unattended-upgrades/README.md.gz is not good enough? |
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| 09:04.24 | jm_ | according to that file what you want is the default |
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| 09:12.24 | Aebian | Greetings, I run debian on all of my servers beause I like it. I want to install Linux on my laptop too (encrypted). Would you recommend going for debian there as well? I'm currently not sure if I should pick another distro |
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| 09:14.41 | tarzeau | Aebian: if the software included is new enough for you, debian is just fine |
| 09:16.06 | DarwinElf | i'm just here because I use it for some servers it was the cheapest oldest option... for desktops/laptops I use stuff even earlier... I don't mean the Devuan fork either, but POSIX-based operating systems (OSes) that never have run systemd and probably never will. Of course I don't think this channel/'room' is really the place to talk about those. Most people won't like what I use because they're not pretty old school who like the Unix/etc. style of |
| 09:16.07 | DarwinElf | doing things, without changes. People can ask me but it's not something I'd recommend unless you grew up with something like MS-DOS rather than Windows |
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| 09:16.56 | DarwinElf | Debian is also better for desktop than almost anything newer. A lot of people prefer derivatives where you get GUI but can still install Debian packages |
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| 09:17.05 | DarwinElf | i mean 'automatic GUI' (eww) |
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| 09:17.43 | han-solo | automatic GUI ? |
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| 09:19.52 | njka- | heh |
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| 09:21.48 | some54ithead | hi there |
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| 09:25.16 | Aebian | tarzeau: yeah should be fine, I mean in special cases I can always build from source if really, I guess I'll stick to debian then |
| 09:25.28 | Aebian | thanks |
| 09:27.14 | strongestAvenger | Hi all - noob question (sorry) If I uninstall virtualbox-dkms since I'm having issues with, will that also break my vm's? or is virtualbox-dkms merely a plugin to virtualbox? Thankssss |
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| 09:29.08 | jm_ | virtualbox-dkms includes out of tree kernel modules needed to run VBox VM-s - if uninstalling it will also remove those modules, ... |
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| 09:35.51 | strongestAvenger | sure, but I can reinstall them? |
| 09:37.18 | jm_ | you can always reinstall the package |
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| 09:44.40 | strongestAvenger | and what happens to the virtual disks? |
| 09:44.43 | strongestAvenger | and vm config file? |
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| 09:45.39 | jm_ | nothing, they are unaffectted, just starting the VM will fail |
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| 09:46.11 | nyov | a package purge might remove them? |
| 09:46.24 | jm_ | also, just removing and reinstalling that package is unlikely to fix your issues |
| 09:47.01 | jm_ | naah, vbox puts VM config and disks in ~ by default |
| 09:47.10 | nyov | ok |
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| 09:47.26 | strongestAvenger | thanks both for your replies, I will go ahead and try to fix this |
| 09:47.44 | nyov | oooh, lookie here what I found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirmwareTestSuite/ |
| 09:48.01 | nyov | RFP: fwts, dangit |
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| 09:48.45 | jm_ | no problem |
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| 09:53.02 | strongestAvenger | so... obviously jm_ you were right, the purge and install of the package didnt solve my issue. It fails and tells me to look into: /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/6.0.14/build/make.log. Which makes no sense to me, I see a whole lot of errors. Any tips? |
| 09:54.27 | jm_ | strongestAvenger: put it on the pastebin (/msg dpkg paste), I will look at it in about 45 minutes if no one else can help until then |
| 09:54.43 | strongestAvenger | thankyou so much |
| 09:54.47 | nyov | ,virtualbox |
| 09:55.01 | nyov | err |
| 09:55.05 | nyov | ,v virtualbox |
| 09:55.06 | judd | Package: virtualbox on amd64 -- jessie/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; jessie-security/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; stretch-backports/contrib: 5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1; sid/contrib: 6.1.0-dfsg-3 |
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| 09:55.31 | nyov | humm. most likely you need a newer kernel? |
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| 09:56.50 | strongestAvenger | http://paste.debian.net/hidden/a836fef7/ |
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| 10:01.55 | nyov | oops :) |
| 10:03.15 | nyov | strongestAvenger: your 5.4 parrot kernel is only supported as of VBox 6.1.0 |
| 10:03.33 | nyov | try a 5.3 kernel, or a newer vbox |
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| 10:22.41 | strongestAvenger | i have no problem with a newer vbox, is there a newer one for parrot? |
| 10:23.09 | towo` | !parrot |
| 10:23.10 | dpkg | Parrot Linux is a distribution based on <testing> for security experts, developers and privacy aware people. It is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Support can be found in #parrotsec on Freenode or the community pages https://docs.parrotlinux.org/community. Ask me about <based on debian> and <parrot-overnight>. If you are new to linux, try using Debian: http://www.debian.org. |
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| 10:24.30 | strongestAvenger | aight ;) thanks |
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| 10:48.21 | jm_ | strongestAvenger: like pointed out above, ask about parrot issues elsewhere, but as far as vbox compile issues with newer kernel (than those available at time of a particular vbox release) go, one can often find a patch to build with given kernel ... |
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| 11:11.00 | AquaL1te | how come freeipa-server isn't in stable yet? https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/freeipa the other packages of freeipa are there, server is still missing |
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| 11:12.44 | nyov | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=dogtag-pki&archive=no&pend-exc=pending-fixed&pend-exc=fixed&pend-exc=done&sev-inc=critical&sev-inc=grave&sev-inc=serious |
| 11:12.51 | nyov | :D |
| 11:14.02 | AquaL1te | nyov: fedora server it is then |
| 11:14.13 | nyov | ":D" because you actually linked to the tracker page which lists this issue |
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| 11:18.02 | nyov | eh. I'd rather just grab the ubuntu package. but sure, why not fedora |
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| 11:55.45 | davorin | good day (o; |
| 11:56.02 | davorin | someone has an idea how to track down a network halt? |
| 11:56.27 | davorin | happened now today and yesterday on a machine with 10.2 and two ethernet interfaces...both are suddenly not reachable anymore... |
| 11:56.41 | davorin | and see nothing in the logs after a reset... |
| 11:57.00 | ksk | davorin: nothing in dmesg? |
| 11:57.15 | davorin | nope...after reset anyway dmesg is gone... |
| 11:57.20 | ksk | what does not reachable man though, do you have remote access? Can you debug the network in the "down" state from server side |
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| 11:57.32 | ksk | mean* |
| 11:57.42 | davorin | just not repsonding to pings anymore..either local LAN nor WAN |
| 11:58.04 | ksk | If you have no remote access, you cannot actually tell if its a network problem, or something else (like the machine halted) |
| 11:58.34 | davorin | well the machine is here at home..so i attached now monitor/keyboard... |
| 11:58.34 | ksk | or, its just turned off, as far as we can tell ;) |
| 11:58.35 | jm_ | anything printed on console? (console blanking often gets in the way) |
| 11:59.07 | ksk | ah okay. then you should start debugging the network on the machine, start with "can I reach my gateway" - and if not, check why (does layer2 work?) |
| 11:59.11 | davorin | well...attached kb/screen after not bein respsonsive...but also didn't react on keystrokes... |
| 11:59.26 | ksk | soo, its not a network problem at all? :> |
| 11:59.33 | davorin | nope (o; |
| 11:59.43 | davorin | is there a copy of the previous dmesg? |
| 11:59.55 | davorin | or is it same as /var/log/messages? |
| 12:00.08 | ksk | in buster journalctl is not persistant I think. configure it, or configure (r)syslogd |
| 12:00.16 | ksk | s/journalctl/journal/ |
| 12:00.52 | jm_ | /var/log/kern.log or persistant journal as mentioned above, but that does not guarantee you will see the very last messages |
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| 12:01.15 | davorin | hmm..how can iturn off blanking? |
| 12:02.07 | jm_ | check /etc/console-tools/config (I would also remove quiet kernel parameter) |
| 12:02.15 | AquaL1te | nyov: freeipa is officially supported for fedora or RHEL and i already have a server running, with the fedora modularity you can have the perfect blend between new and old software. i won't mix distributions or add 3rd party repos, once you have to do that it's time to switch distro imho |
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| 12:08.18 | davorin | hmm...no /etc/console-tools/... |
| 12:08.26 | davorin | added a grub entry consoleblank=0 |
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| 12:10.11 | davorin | let's wait and see if it happens again tomorrow...might be some ubiquiti java deb package causing this... |
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| 12:15.10 | colo-work | davorin, I have had this work for me years ago: https://paste.debian.net/1125129/ |
| 12:18.25 | jelly | AquaL1te: it always makes sense to use the best supported plaform; if you need a long running service that'd be RHEL then. They probably conveniently avoid mentioning CentOS as an option, verify whether that's supported as well. Fedora server does not sound like something with a long life. |
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| 12:18.47 | jelly | judd: file /etc/console-tools |
| 12:18.53 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
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| 12:19.16 | jelly | jm_: which debian release do you see that file in? |
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| 12:20.44 | jm_ | jelly: buster, it's from console-tools - I somehow remember this no longer gets installed by default, but this is an old install |
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| 12:22.05 | jm_ | ahh it's not even available anymore :) |
| 12:22.44 | jelly | ,v console-tools |
| 12:22.45 | judd | No package named 'console-tools' was found in amd64. |
| 12:23.03 | jelly | ,bug rm console-tools |
| 12:23.07 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/671342 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: console-tools -- ROM; No longer maintained upstream»; severity: normal; opened: 2012-05-03; last modified: 2014-01-13. |
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| 12:23.29 | jm_ | haha this stuff is from 2011 |
| 12:23.48 | jm_ | yeah just checked what the latest entry in its changelog file is |
| 12:24.13 | jm_ | at least my memory about it being obsolete matches |
| 12:25.28 | jm_ | to my defense, I first tried to find a similar file in /etc/console-setup but cached_setup_terminal.sh (which probably has the same stuff in it) somehow went past me |
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| 12:26.37 | krumelmonster | Hi. Is there a way to install a single package from testing? It's not a binary package and it's not in backports. |
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| 12:27.16 | krumelmonster | (Of course, there is the obvious downloading the package and installting via dpkg but updates would be good, I guess?) |
| 12:27.37 | ksk | krumelmonster: which package? but no, rather not recommended. |
| 12:27.44 | jm_ | krumelmonster: in general don't do that, but if you want to try it, read about apt pinning, but stop as soon as more than that package gets involved |
| 12:27.51 | krumelmonster | borgmatic (python) |
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| 12:28.25 | ksk | the one in buster does not suite you? |
| 12:28.42 | ksk | ,v borgmatic |
| 12:28.43 | judd | Package: borgmatic on amd64 -- buster: 1.2.11-1; bullseye: 1.4.8-3; sid: 1.4.8-3 |
| 12:28.44 | krumelmonster | no, it's too outdated for my configuration |
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| 12:30.13 | ksk | I see. its dependencys look rather open (only need "some python3) - so could be okay. |
| 12:30.16 | ksk | !apt pinning |
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| 12:30.27 | ksk | !pinning |
| 12:30.27 | dpkg | Pinning is a method to choose which version of a package to install when multiple versions are available from <sources.list>. Bugs are explained at https://web.archive.org/web/20121017070250/http://carlo17.home.xs4all.nl/howto/debian.html#errata . If you use stable, pinning won't help you from messing up the system, ask me about <backports> instead. https://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences |
| 12:31.17 | jelly | krumelmonster: there are various ways, but don't do that. Make a local backport. |
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| 12:32.07 | jelly | jm_: please avoid telling people to mix anything newer into stable, pinning won't save them |
| 12:32.10 | jm_ | ,checkbackport borgmatic |
| 12:32.11 | judd | Backporting package borgmatic in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12). |
| 12:32.35 | jm_ | jelly: the warning at the end should work |
| 12:32.59 | jelly | people ignore warnings |
| 12:33.15 | jelly | just... don't tell them it "might work" |
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| 12:33.44 | ksk | thanks for pointing that out jelly, I will comply ;) |
| 12:33.54 | jelly | because then they come back with a broken installation and we tell them to reinstall and have to laugh at them |
| 12:34.28 | krumelmonster | I manually installed the testing .deb for now. Works great. |
| 12:34.40 | ksk | krumelmonster: then, as building your own backport seems to not work, you might want to get the software "from source"? - there is a repo at github. |
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| 12:34.54 | jelly | ,v debhelper |
| 12:34.55 | judd | Package: debhelper on amd64 -- jessie: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; stretch: 10.2.5; stretch-backports: 12.1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 12.1.1; buster-backports: 12.6.1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 12.7.3; sid: 12.7.3 |
| 12:34.59 | ksk | you would leave the debian supported ecosystem of course. |
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| 12:36.00 | jelly | krumelmonster: that sometimes works for some packages. In general however it's TOO easy to make a mess |
| 12:36.18 | jelly | the sane way is to make a backport build |
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| 12:36.58 | jelly | ,provides debhelper --release buster |
| 12:36.59 | judd | Package debhelper in buster/amd64 provides: debhelper-compat (= 9), debhelper-compat (= 10), debhelper-compat (= 11), debhelper-compat (= 12), dh-sequence-dwz, dh-sequence-installinitramfs, dh-sequence-systemd. |
| 12:37.25 | jelly | that's weird, Provides: debhelper-compat (= 12) but checkbackport does not find it |
| 12:39.06 | jm_ | maybe only backports versions provides =12, but provides bot command doesn't consider that? |
| 12:40.23 | krumelmonster | thanks everyone |
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| 12:45.44 | krumelmonster | p.s.: Would be great to have this package in backports |
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| 13:00.05 | petn-randall | krumelmonster: I'm using borgbackup, but I haven't considered using borgmatic yet. But it looks pretty good. |
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| 13:04.53 | NetTerminalGene | ,v firefox-esr |
| 13:04.54 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch: 60.7.1esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 60.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.2.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 68.2.0esr-1+b1; jessie-security: 68.3.0esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-security: 68.3.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster-proposed-updates: 68.3.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: |
| 13:04.55 | judd | 68.3.0esr-1~deb10u1; sid: 68.4.0esr-1 |
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| 13:30.50 | Chrys0pras3 | Good morning. I was building a package from source, gave it the wrong version number with dch, and now I can't install it. Do I need to compile again, or can I still fix it? |
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| 13:32.23 | petn-randall | Chrys0pras3: I'd just compile again. |
| 13:32.53 | Chrys0pras3 | It'll take 3h though |
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| 13:33.56 | jelly | Chrys0pras3: you can repack the binary .deb and change the control file if you don't care about version number possibly being embedded somewhere in code |
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| 13:35.20 | Chrys0pras3 | jelly: you're right I think it may be embeded on the code, but I'll try thanks |
| 13:35.28 | jelly | Chrys0pras3: dpkg-deb --unpack foo.deb tmpdir; dpkg-deb --control foo.deb tmpdir; $EDITOR tmpdir/DEBIAN/control; dpkg-deb -b tmpdir . |
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| 13:35.53 | jelly | er, sorry, it's --extract not --unpack |
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| 13:36.16 | jelly | welp |
| 13:36.30 | jelly | Chrys0pras3: dpkg-deb --extract foo.deb tmpdir; dpkg-deb --control foo.deb tmpdir/DEBIAN; $EDITOR tmpdir/DEBIAN/control; dpkg-deb -b tmpdir . |
| 13:36.38 | edgars | hello |
| 13:36.39 | jelly | forgot |
| 13:37.08 | jelly | actually has a shell script for that |
| 13:37.11 | AquaL1te | jelly: fedora server has indeed a 6 month release cycle, but as mentioned, the modularity feature in fedora makes it possible to stick to certain packages longer. sort of LTS for packages that are modular in your packaging system, you can choose which release stream you want. i've been using fedora server for a while, it works pretty well. but my first choice was debian though, but that's not possible as |
| 13:37.17 | AquaL1te | it seems. |
| 13:37.39 | edgars | how can i push hostname to linux over pxe install? |
| 13:38.01 | jelly | AquaL1te: modularity is VERY similar to mixing and matching different debian releases, and has similar issues |
| 13:38.21 | elwisp | edgars: fetch it from dns and set it that way during bootstrap script |
| 13:38.23 | jelly | admittedly I've only read about it on lwn :-) |
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| 13:38.29 | elwisp | or however you do config management |
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| 13:39.22 | ksk | edgars: you can also pass on variables via the isolinux commandline |
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| 13:43.10 | edgars | elwisp: toocomplicated |
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| 13:43.19 | edgars | ksk: how? i cant find :/ |
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| 13:51.50 | AquaL1te | jelly: similar, but done better IMHO. it's still managed as one distribution release. i've seen no issues. |
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| 13:52.53 | Chrys0pras3 | jelly: thanks it worked |
| 13:53.59 | ksk | edgars: https://serverfault.com/questions/372609/how-do-i-pass-arguments-from-the-pxe-command-line-to-a-kickstart-pre-post-scr |
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| 13:54.42 | ksk | you just pass them to the kernel commandline, and then parse them as needed. |
| 13:55.44 | ksk | not sure if that is the 2020 approach though, Id recommend: have the server read its serial number, and query an internal service with that for variables you want it to have (like hostname, IP, role) |
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| 13:57.55 | edgars | ohh my, 2020 and so complicated :/ |
| 13:58.14 | edgars | thanks |
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| 13:58.39 | ksk | not really complicated imho. if you want to fully automate it, you will need $stack anyways. and if you are fine with setting it manually, you do that.. |
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| 14:02.27 | ksk | syslinux itself is rather 1990 than 2020 of course ;) |
| 14:02.51 | edgars | well, but its more or less simple and usable :) |
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| 14:18.35 | CCTRIP | hi all |
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| 14:44.42 | openbsdtai123 | how to to "screen -d -m startx " with tmux3 |
| 14:44.53 | openbsdtai123 | tmux |
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| 14:53.03 | krumelmonster | petn-randall: I run it nightly with a systemd timer and I find it to be *very* convenient but I haven't ever tried making automated backups with borg only so I'm not sure if there are great advantages really. Note that many borgmatic features documented online aren't available with the version in buster. |
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| 14:54.17 | krumelmonster | and the stable package, unlike testing, comes without a manpage. |
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| 14:56.38 | uso | Should a Debian 10 armhf image be installable on a beaglebone black? When I try it the installation aborts immediately after start and reboots me into the start screen. |
| 14:57.38 | EdePopede | openbsdtai123: why not asking in #tmux how $something works in their software? |
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| 15:03.02 | borrougagnou | Hello, I have a question, I looking for in Debian Buster how can I change my default FileManager by another ? |
| 15:03.28 | borrougagnou | *another one |
| 15:04.49 | EdePopede | borrougagnou: that's a desktop related thing, probably it is managed by xdg |
| 15:05.08 | borrougagnou | xdg ? okay I check that ! |
| 15:06.44 | EdePopede | i just used the menu and it runs > /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/xfce4/exo-1/exo-helper-1 --launch TerminalEmulator |
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| 15:07.40 | EdePopede | its --help has a list of helpers it manages: mail, browser, terminal, filemanager |
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| 15:08.06 | borrougagnou | --help with xdg-mime ? |
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| 15:08.18 | Sanderei | Hi, i have some trouble with x11 flickering |
| 15:08.56 | EdePopede | no, that exo thing. it is xfce's tool which in turn uses xdg. had to hunt some weird behaviour in mc some day. |
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| 15:09.10 | borrougagnou | ha |
| 15:09.17 | EdePopede | borrougagnou: your DE should have a dialog to change the default applications |
| 15:09.34 | borrougagnou | ha ! I see |
| 15:10.40 | EdePopede | gah... preferred applications in xfce. found it on the 3rd try. |
| 15:11.01 | borrougagnou | its weird because in XFCE manager I see "thunar" by default... |
| 15:11.26 | EdePopede | same here, replaced it by double commander |
| 15:11.37 | borrougagnou | so I try to do that, maybe it change something: `xdg-mime default thunar.desktop inode/directory` |
| 15:11.39 | EdePopede | not that i'd really use it... xterm+mc is still the best |
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| 15:12.36 | EdePopede | btw, that's something that really surprised me: /usr/bin/xdg-mime: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable |
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| 15:14.17 | borrougagnou | xdg-mime apparently use "mimeapps.list" but I don't have this file in "~/.local/share/applications" directory |
| 15:14.36 | eho | echo |
| 15:15.02 | borrougagnou | but I found another one in "~/.config/mimeapps.list" |
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| 15:16.48 | EdePopede | i only have some entries for qpdfview in it |
| 15:16.56 | openbsdtai123 | I usually use rox-filer, which is faster and with much less dependencies. |
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| 15:17.22 | EdePopede | which are doubled in the one in .config which is much bigger |
| 15:17.26 | karlpinc | Is there any hope of (eventually) seeing a libreoffice bug fixed if I file something in the debian bug tracking system or should I look into reporting upstream? |
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| 15:18.21 | annadane | where do people store their private keys, i assume not in home |
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| 15:18.41 | greycat | If it's ssh keys, they're in ~/.ssh/ typically. |
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| 15:19.33 | karlpinc | annadane: Yeah. I store them in ~/.ssh |
| 15:19.40 | annadane | just wondered what people's philosophy is as home can be compromised |
| 15:19.54 | greycat | If you mean GNUPG keys, then I don't know any more. I stopped paying attention to PGP/GPG a while ago. |
| 15:20.10 | greycat | What makes you say "home can be compromised"? |
| 15:20.26 | annadane | unprivileged users being able to write to home |
| 15:20.36 | borrougagnou | EdePopede > okay I found something, you check your default file manager just use: `exo-open --launch FileManager` to launch your default file manager |
| 15:20.36 | greycat | to their *own* home, only |
| 15:20.45 | greycat | if you trash your own home, you get what you deserve |
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| 15:21.11 | karlpinc | annadane: Note that you should not have more than one (really) key. (although you might have a rsa key for reaching older systems and a ecdsa key for reaching newer ones, etc.) Sometimes there's a special key you might use just for a particular purpose (triggering a command= in a remote system's ~/.ssh/authorized_keys file). But mostly you want one identity. |
| 15:21.51 | annadane | okay, so not as dire as i imagined it |
| 15:22.33 | borrougagnou | now I go because I really need to reboot my computer and continu my work |
| 15:22.36 | karlpinc | annadane: I do keep a backup on a couple of flash drives kept at remote locations. |
| 15:22.47 | borrougagnou | thank you EdePopede |
| 15:22.48 | tachikomas | avoid backup on flashdrive |
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| 15:23.26 | karlpinc | tachikomas: You have to plug flash drives in every now and again or they forget. Otherwise, why not? |
| 15:24.13 | karlpinc | (In an emergency flash drives microwave just as well as cds/dvds. :-) |
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| 15:31.52 | Sanderei | can someone help me with x11? |
| 15:31.56 | Sanderei | it flickers |
| 15:32.27 | Logg | try setting the monitor to a different resolution -- maybe you are using an unsupported mode Sanderei |
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| 15:33.06 | Sanderei | can't do that because it's on a chromebook |
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| 15:33.29 | Logg | if you are using X on debian, then you can "apt install xrandr" and set the mode with that tool |
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| 15:33.41 | Logg | or use the tools included with your desktop environment |
| 15:33.50 | Sanderei | ok wait |
| 15:34.00 | Sanderei | idk what my desktop environment is |
| 15:34.09 | Logg | good luck to you. :-) |
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| 15:34.36 | Sanderei | it has no candidate |
| 15:34.49 | Logg | apt update && apt install xrandr |
| 15:34.57 | Akuw | if i copy passwd and shadow file to another machine can i login? |
| 15:35.02 | Habbie | it's in x11-xserver-utils |
| 15:35.21 | karlpinc | Sanderei: You've done the "install linux on a chromebook" thing and are running chrome with linux userspace? |
| 15:35.35 | Sanderei | Habbie that's what I get |
| 15:36.23 | Sanderei | x11-server-utils is manually installed |
| 15:36.32 | Sanderei | and what next |
| 15:36.41 | karlpinc | Akuw: All you really need is to copy the password hash into one of the user lines on the other system's passwd and shadow file. |
| 15:37.26 | Sanderei | karlpinc yeah in the settings of chrome os |
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| 15:37.51 | Sanderei | karlpinc ?? |
| 15:37.53 | karlpinc | Sanderei: Neat. I did that, but it just seemed to work. |
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| 15:38.37 | Sanderei | yeah, but some packages like the android developer tool and kdenlive flicker really much |
| 15:38.39 | karlpinc | Akuw: If you copy the whole files and not the group and gshadow files I don't know what happens if your user has a group that does not exist. |
| 15:38.44 | Sanderei | firefox a bit |
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| 15:39.13 | karlpinc | Sanderei: I've only really used the xterm. |
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| 15:39.41 | Sanderei | Do you have a chromebook right there up and running? |
| 15:39.50 | Akuw | done |
| 15:40.03 | Akuw | i copied the password line in shadow |
| 15:40.06 | karlpinc | Sanderei: It's shut down now. It's around somewhere. |
| 15:40.11 | Akuw | can login using ssh |
| 15:40.19 | Sanderei | karlpinc install kdenlive and see what happens |
| 15:40.29 | Sanderei | maybe you can see what the problem is |
| 15:40.44 | karlpinc | Sanderei: Can't. I've got other fish to fry. |
| 15:41.01 | Sanderei | and that is?? |
| 15:41.12 | Sanderei | other fish?? |
| 15:41.22 | Sanderei | to fry?? |
| 15:41.37 | Sanderei | on a chromebook while youtube is playing?? |
| 15:41.50 | joepublic | I love me some fried fish. |
| 15:42.24 | joepublic | I love kdenlive too, for that matter |
| 15:43.23 | karlpinc | Sanderei: It's an idiom meaning "I've other things to do." |
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| 15:44.09 | joepublic | That person appears to no longer be here |
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| 15:44.26 | Sanderei | sorry had internet problems |
| 15:44.42 | Sanderei | but what can I do against flickering? |
| 15:44.45 | greycat | stop frying seafood on your router |
| 15:44.56 | dvs | heh |
| 15:45.30 | joepublic | it's wasted heat otherwise |
| 15:45.40 | Sanderei | I fried 7 cats and 3 dogs above my router and it worked pretty well. why stopping if it works fine? :p |
| 15:46.13 | Logg | uhhh |
| 15:46.22 | chexier | My router is hotter than boiling water. |
| 15:46.28 | joepublic | yeah my cat used to sleep on my router and overheat it, and she would actually push the power cord out and kill Internet; had to relocate the router |
| 15:46.35 | Sanderei | karlpinc what can I do against flickering on linux on chromebook? (debian 9) |
| 15:46.51 | karlpinc | Looks like the libreoffice maintainers really want bugs reported upstream.... |
| 15:46.53 | Sanderei | joepublic noice |
| 15:47.16 | joepublic | Trying to ssh in and failing almost always meant "cat problems" |
| 15:47.18 | Sanderei | Libreoffice works almost fine |
| 15:47.29 | karlpinc | Sanderei: Other folks gave you some suggestions, try following those. |
| 15:48.03 | Sanderei | I don't really fry of course |
| 15:48.14 | joepublic | just provide cozy heat. I get it. |
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| 15:48.39 | Sanderei | karlpinc I was gone for a bit cause of bad connection so what did they say of that |
| 15:48.42 | Logg | Sanderei, do something cool with xrandr. add a supported mode, try 800x600 |
| 15:49.28 | Sanderei | Oh wait, there is a function for low graphics if I start an application |
| 15:49.44 | Logg | there are probably many functions in the program, yes. |
| 15:50.15 | Sanderei | I tried, but it doesn't work |
| 15:51.35 | karlpinc | Gurr. What's the recommended way to install libreoffice from upstream so I can report a bug. (Without breaking my stock debian install.) flatpack? Or a debootstrap chroot enviornment? I don't know anything about flatpack. |
| 15:51.56 | Logg | I think you're going to want to compile from source, karlpinc |
| 15:52.07 | Sanderei | just install it with sudo apt install libreoffice |
| 15:52.17 | Logg | that is not upstream, Sanderei |
| 15:52.19 | greycat | upstream means "NOT the debian package" |
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| 15:52.37 | Sanderei | download it from the site |
| 15:52.58 | Sanderei | cd to the directory where you downloaded it |
| 15:53.28 | karlpinc | Logg: Why do you say that? (They've a dev version available in flatpak....) |
| 15:53.44 | Sanderei | do sudo dpkg-install <package name> or maybe sudo apt install <package name> |
| 15:54.29 | greycat | Sanderei: he does NOT want to use a Debian package of it. He wants to use the upstream NON-PACKAGED version because apparently the Debian support team has rejected his bug report and he wants to bypass them. |
| 15:54.50 | Sanderei | idk what to do then |
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| 15:55.03 | Sanderei | is it an appimage? |
| 15:55.06 | karlpinc | greycat: If you try to report a libreoffice bug it gives you a page + of instructions, some of which say "see if the problem is in upstream". |
| 15:55.17 | Logg | I don't know much about flatpak, but source code will the latest release & you will know the origin (i.e... not outdated by a month in flatpak). When testing upstream software for bugs, you'd want to use the bleeding edge of development so that you know that the bug hasn't been fixed yet. |
| 15:55.26 | Sanderei | karlpinc is it an appimage |
| 15:56.22 | nyov | I didn't recall rebuilding the debian kernel package requires 160 build-deps. wut |
| 15:56.29 | karlpinc | Logg: I get it about the bleeding edge. But compiling's a pain. I think I'm going to go take this up with #libreoffice (or the like) and see what they say. |
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| 15:56.48 | mmillet | hello |
| 15:56.48 | Logg | OK good luck karlpinc |
| 15:56.56 | karlpinc | Sanderei: apt show flatpak |
| 15:57.28 | mmillet | I have some trouble with authentication agent or something like that |
| 15:58.10 | mmillet | here's the case: I have a ssh key that I use to connect to a gitlab repository, and I'd like it to be forwarded when I ssh into another host (using ssh -A) |
| 15:58.35 | Sanderei | demo of flatpak with spotify: sudo flatpak install flathub com.spotify.Client |
| 15:58.55 | Sanderei | karlpinc |
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| 15:58.57 | mmillet | I think this works when done in Gnome (debian Buster), but seems broken when I use XFCE as a DE |
| 15:58.59 | greycat | mmillet: there's a thing called "agent forwarding" but I've been told that it's a security risk if the intermediate host isn't fully trusted |
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| 15:59.35 | mmillet | greycat, this is all in a corporate environment, so that's not the issue here |
| 15:59.47 | Sanderei | karlpinc demo of spotify and apply this with libreoffice: sudo flatpak install flathub com.spotify.Client |
| 16:00.27 | Sanderei | can someone help me with setting xrandr to the right settings?? |
| 16:00.36 | mmillet | (also I had to setup a specific .ssh/config file to attach the key to the gitlab host, which was not needed in Gnome) |
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| 16:00.41 | greycat | mmillet: ok, then look into agent forwarding; #openssh might be more help here |
| 16:01.01 | mmillet | well I think the trouble is that I lack the agent |
| 16:01.13 | Sanderei | my current settings for xrandr: Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 8192 x 8192XWAYLAND0 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 508mm x 285mm 1920x1080 59.96*+ |
| 16:02.01 | barbossa | Hi! I want to write a post-image.sh script for change the config.txt file. I have modified the board/raspberrypi3/post-image.sh but after make I obtain a Permission denied... An idea ? |
| 16:02.15 | greycat | yes, you must use an ssh-agent before you can set up agent forwarding |
| 16:03.04 | Logg | Sanderei, you are using Wayland, you are not using X. |
| 16:03.10 | mmillet | greycat, like GNOME Keyring SSH agent ? |
| 16:03.26 | mmillet | I just realised it was not started automatically, that might be the issue... |
| 16:03.48 | greycat | I don't know much about GNOME. |
| 16:04.11 | Habbie | mmillet, yes, on my debian gnome desktop, there's an ssh-agent running from the keyring |
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| 16:04.30 | barbossa | is it the same agent when we generate ssh key from shell ? |
| 16:04.45 | mmillet | hmm I'll try to restart my session with the program autostarting |
| 16:04.47 | greycat | keys are separate from agents |
| 16:04.55 | Sanderei | karlpinc did it work or do you have the answer already? |
| 16:04.58 | mmillet | thanks Habbie and greycat |
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| 16:05.24 | barbossa | Sorry i don t understand why I should use ssh agent for doing make |
| 16:06.03 | barbossa | I don t use ssh connection when i generate the image from BR |
| 16:06.23 | greycat | the discussion of ssh agents was for millet's question |
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| 16:06.38 | barbossa | Oh sorry ^^ |
| 16:06.58 | Sanderei | karlpinc did it work? (sorry bad internet) |
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| 16:07.51 | Sanderei | can someone help me with set xrandr? |
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| 16:12.34 | joepublic | what do you want to set |
| 16:12.50 | greycat | they vanished right after asking |
| 16:12.55 | mmillet | OK I solved my problem: I had to execute "ssh-add ~/.ssh/mykey", then everything went ok |
| 16:13.34 | greycat | if your key has a nonstandard name like "mykey", you may have to re-add that every time you restart the agent, which may be every time you reboot, or every time you login |
| 16:14.02 | greycat | (and if the key has a passphrase, which it *SHOULD* have, then you'd need to re-add it by re-typing the passphrase each time, anyway) |
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| 16:16.01 | mmillet | oh ok |
| 16:16.13 | mmillet | well I don't have a passphrase |
| 16:16.34 | greycat | in that case, simply scripting your ssh-add command as part of your login may be sufficient |
| 16:16.52 | greycat | but you said it's a GNOME login, so ... I might not be able to advise you on that, much |
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| 16:18.41 | Guest95571 | Cc |
| 16:19.11 | nyov | How can I fix this build-error on the debian kernel source? https://paste.debian.net/1125167/ |
| 16:19.11 | mmillet | thank you greycat, i'll just add the command to my shell |
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| 16:22.19 | tomreyn | bug 931890 |
| 16:22.32 | tomreyn | nyov: ^ https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=931890 |
| 16:22.33 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/931890 in debian-handbook (open): «debian-handbook: in section 8.10.4 (Compiling the Kernel / Compiling and Building the Package)»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-07-11; last modified: 2019-07-17. |
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| 16:25.42 | nyov | tomreyn: ah okay. so I need to set CONFIG_SYSTEM_TRUSTED_KEYS = "" |
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| 16:26.26 | tomreyn | nyov: looks like. |
| 16:26.37 | nyov | only I don't know where that option is hiding... hehe. yet. |
| 16:26.58 | tomreyn | kernel config |
| 16:27.18 | nyov | yeah, I mean in the menuconfig |
| 16:27.34 | greycat | you could always exit from menuconfig, edit the config file by hand, then go back into menuconfig...? |
| 16:27.38 | nyov | oh well, editing files never hurt anyone |
| 16:27.44 | nyov | greycat: done :p |
| 16:32.00 | greycat | I haven't built a kernel in a LONG time, but I think most people these days gave up on the interactive config choices, and just use "make oldconfig" with a hand-edited config file |
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| 16:35.04 | ctcx | From ntpd or chrony, is there a generally preferred one to use for time sync in Debian? |
| 16:36.38 | tomreyn | i'd go with chrony or systemd-timesync (but you didn't mention this one, possibly on purpose). |
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| 16:38.19 | ctcx | Because I didn't know about it until now |
| 16:38.33 | ctcx | In your case, why chrony over ntpd? |
| 16:39.05 | greycat | there are at least four choices currently: ntp, chrony, openntpd, and systemd-timesyncd |
| 16:39.11 | jelly | chrony has historically dealt better with machines that are not online 24/7/365 |
| 16:39.30 | tomreyn | chrony is the smaller and younger codebase with similar functionality. |
| 16:39.33 | barbossa | I want add a post-build script but I have the error: impossible to open the temporary file /etc/ssh/sed1H9pLe: Permission denied |
| 16:39.43 | barbossa | I don't understand this error |
| 16:40.13 | jelly | barbossa: what's a "post-build" script and where/how exactly do you start it? |
| 16:40.19 | tomreyn | (and better code, from what i read) |
| 16:41.00 | jelly | tomreyn: oh right, timesyncd is a NIH written by people who don't usually write ntp code, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole |
| 16:41.23 | jelly | might be a-okay for workstations or laptops and such |
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| 16:42.25 | greycat | for most people, the "systemd-" part of the name should be sufficient warning |
| 16:42.42 | jelly | some components named like that are fine, others, not so much |
| 16:43.04 | jelly | udev was basically just imported into systemd, it's still the same thing and not magically ruined |
| 16:43.52 | jelly | but their resolver? *shudder* |
| 16:44.35 | greycat | yeah, I would *never* use systemd's timesyncd or resolved |
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| 16:45.33 | jelly | and hostnamectl / nss_myhostname is a good idea, but the implementation and custom nss module... just why |
| 16:46.31 | jelly | (I know why, because someone wants to have systems with read-only static /etc and / that still work) |
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| 17:02.09 | b1ack0p | hi |
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| 17:17.49 | HoloIRCUser | Hello. |
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| 17:18.52 | HoloIRCUser | I pulled my hdd out of my system, & the OS switched to gnome 2. I put my hdd back in my other system & it's still gnome 2. |
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| 17:19.34 | Sanderei | hi, can someone help me with x11 flickering> |
| 17:19.36 | Sanderei | ? |
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| 17:20.50 | greycat | I'd be more concerned with Internet flickering, if I were you. |
| 17:21.08 | NetEcho | hey folks I'm doing an install in a VM of debian buster and every debian mirror I pick is coming up as "Bad archive mirror" |
| 17:21.11 | Sanderei | . |
| 17:21.41 | diogenes_ | greycat, what is internet flickering? |
| 17:22.02 | greycat | 11:06 Sanderei> karlpinc did it work? (sorry bad internet) |
| 17:22.07 | greycat | 11:07 Sanderei> can someone help me with set xrandr? |
| 17:22.09 | greycat | 11:08 = Sanderei [5353fab2@83-83-250-178.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] quit |
| 17:22.14 | NetEcho | https://i.imgur.com/iHMvkwd.png <-- even the debian mirror |
| 17:22.17 | diogenes_ | lol that's true |
| 17:23.20 | Sanderei | greycat In the netherlands we have 2 great internet providers and they are actually bad |
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| 17:24.22 | spacebug^ | so... not so great then? :) |
| 17:25.14 | Sanderei | greycat I have 2 routers and around 10 devices connected per router |
| 17:25.33 | Sanderei | spacebug^ yes |
| 17:25.45 | Sanderei | anyone Dutch here |
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| 17:25.55 | Sanderei | or belgian |
| 17:26.07 | NetEcho | hmm apparently it was a dns issue |
| 17:26.20 | Sanderei | from me? |
| 17:26.30 | Sanderei | my chromebook sucks |
| 17:26.46 | Sanderei | but other devices work correctly |
| 17:27.10 | Sanderei | But I have 5 Wi-Fi channels for myself |
| 17:28.31 | Sanderei | greycat |
| 17:28.52 | jhutchins_wk | HoloIRCUser: 1) Gnome is a Desktop Environment, not an OS. 2) What DE were you using before it "switched to gnome"? |
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| 17:29.07 | greycat | 11:12 joepublic> what do you want to set |
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| 17:29.09 | greycat | 11:12 greycat> they vanished right after asking |
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| 17:29.45 | joepublic | involving xrandr as I recall |
| 17:29.54 | Sanderei | @greycat do you now solves for wayland x11 |
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| 17:30.13 | greycat | Sanderei: the question was, what do you want to do with xrandr? |
| 17:30.22 | joepublic | I am pretty sure all chromebooks suck as opposed to a more full-featured computer. It's one of the design requirements to keep costs low. |
| 17:32.22 | Sanderei | greycat just solve the bad x11 problems, like if you start kdenlive the blocks start blinking |
| 17:33.00 | Sanderei | joepublic this chromebook costs around 800 euros |
| 17:33.12 | joepublic | oh. pardon my error. |
| 17:33.19 | greycat | so your question isn't really "how do I perform specific thing abc with xrandr" so much as "heeeelpppp meeeee" |
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| 17:33.47 | Sanderei | I know how to set resolutions |
| 17:33.57 | Sanderei | but that's everything |
| 17:34.08 | joepublic | Sanderei, could you perhaps pastebin the output of xrandr |
| 17:35.07 | Sanderei | greycat if you can solve that i can launch x11 problems correctly, so that I can see what's on my screen |
| 17:35.29 | Sanderei | joepublic but then I have no screen |
| 17:35.42 | greycat | what |
| 17:35.48 | joepublic | I don't quite understand that. |
| 17:36.09 | greycat | Maybe you should go back to the beginning and describe the problem. |
| 17:36.20 | Sanderei | Can I send pictures to you greycat |
| 17:36.32 | joepublic | I am asking you to, while kdenlive is flickering away, to open a terminal window and pastebin what xrandr says (no options, just xrandr | pastebinit ) |
| 17:36.33 | greycat | How would "flickering" show up in a static photo? |
| 17:37.27 | Sanderei | joepublic if I pastebin my output, how do I have a normal x11 screen then |
| 17:37.45 | joepublic | using the process that I described above. |
| 17:37.50 | greycat | The objective is for joepublic (or someone, anyone) to READ your pasted output and look for problems. |
| 17:37.51 | Sanderei | greycat because it's almost black |
| 17:37.51 | HoloIRCUser | jhutchins_wk, I'm not sure what a DE is, though I plugged my hdd into an older system, & when I plugged the hdd back to my newer system, the OS booted with gnome2 instead of gnome3 settings |
| 17:38.12 | greycat | HoloIRCUser: Desktop Environment |
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| 17:38.51 | joepublic | using a program such as [xterm rxterm mate-terminal gnome-terminal konsole lxterminal etc.] |
| 17:39.34 | Sanderei | I think I did something wrong because I can't startx anymore |
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| 17:40.30 | joepublic | So, the problem at this point goes deeper than 'kdenlive flickers' i guess |
| 17:41.00 | Sanderei | I did something wrong, now I'm reinstalling linux |
| 17:41.16 | joepublic | makes sense. |
| 17:41.36 | Sanderei | But even if I reinstall linux it stays |
| 17:42.11 | Sanderei | one moment, reinstalled linux |
| 17:42.56 | Sanderei | I understanded pastebin wrong joepublic sorry |
| 17:43.05 | joepublic | no problem. |
| 17:43.20 | Sanderei | Cause i thought of the trashbin |
| 17:43.27 | HoloIRCUser | The System Settings > Details still shows Gnome 3.4.2, though it looks like Gnome 2 Settings, with drop down menus, etc. |
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| 17:44.36 | Sanderei | started the terminal |
| 17:44.56 | greycat | xrandr 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 17:45.19 | greycat | or your preferred pasting alternative, if you don't like, or can't access, that one |
| 17:45.21 | spacebug^ | HoloIRCUser: when loggin in, did you by chance choose "GNOME Classic" instead oj just "GNOME" ? |
| 17:45.21 | Sanderei | But still can't startx |
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| 17:45.25 | greycat | ... |
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| 17:46.18 | HoloIRCUser | space bug, I didn't choose it, though the other system said it couldn't utilize gnome3 settings. |
| 17:47.06 | greycat | Ahhh, so the other system MODIFIED something on your hard disk. |
| 17:47.21 | HoloIRCUser | Grey cat, yes |
| 17:47.28 | spacebug^ | they it might have default to "GNOME Classic". Logout from GNOME, then when logging in, click the gear icon and chose "GNOME" not "GNOME Classic" |
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| 17:47.48 | Sanderei | It's getting late, i'm gonna watch TV and go to bed. bye |
| 17:48.02 | joepublic | peace. good luck. |
| 17:48.08 | Sanderei | thank you |
| 17:48.17 | Sanderei | maybe I'll come back |
| 17:48.19 | Sanderei | bye |
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| 17:49.13 | HoloIRCUser | Yeah, it's still the same. |
| 17:50.54 | HoloIRCUser | Gnome & Gnome Classic look the same. |
| 17:52.27 | spacebug^ | they should not. Unless you have somehow managed to uninstall or disabled gnome shell |
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| 17:58.03 | spacebug^ | HoloIRCUser: if you create another user on your system and that user logs in using "GNOME" not "GNOME classic", what does that user get? (just to see if you have managed to do something for your normal user or system wide) |
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| 17:59.00 | greycat | another way to perform a similar test might be to temporarily rename ~/.gnome and ~/.gconf and possibly other config directories... but creating a new user might be quicker |
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| 18:06.26 | HoloIRCUser | The new user got a notification: Gnome 3 failed to start properly & started in fallback mode. |
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| 18:07.02 | greycat | missing some pieces of gnome, or some firmware or drivers? |
| 18:07.12 | HoloIRCUser | I'm sure that the specs on this system can handle Gnome 3. |
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| 18:07.57 | HoloIRCUser | This started in the older system during a single test, & now it won't load gnome 3. |
| 18:08.19 | greycat | your goal at this moment should be discovering precisely WHY it "failed to start" |
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| 18:08.41 | greycat | perhaps there's a log file somewhere in the new user's home directory. it should be relatively clean in there, not too many hiding places for log files |
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| 18:18.44 | HoloIRCUser | I found: it's because I need 3d acceleration graphics drivers. |
| 18:18.56 | greycat | as I said... |
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| 18:19.37 | HoloIRCUser | My mouse in my kvm isn't working with gnome 2. |
| 18:19.44 | greycat | apparently there's been some improvement now, if you get a readable error and a fallback to sane settings, rather than just a black screen or a crashed DE and a return to the login, as others have reported before |
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| 18:19.51 | HoloIRCUser | Any workaround with that? |
| 18:21.22 | spacebug^ | HoloIRCUser: do you do "redirect USB" and choose the mouse and you get no pointer? |
| 18:26.27 | spacebug^ | HoloIRCUser: nevermind. I started my text VM and had the same problem. Closing virt-manager and start it again solved that missing pointer for me. |
| 18:26.34 | spacebug^ | s/text/test |
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| 18:45.08 | HoloIRCUser | spacebug, closing virt-manager? |
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| 18:47.08 | joepublic | I am curious whether you have the hardware and drivers to perform 3d acceleration. |
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| 18:48.14 | HoloIRCUser | I have amd radeon HD 4200 graphics card. |
| 18:48.39 | spacebug^ | HoloIRCUser: with kvm didn't you mean KVM (Kernel Virtual Machine) ? |
| 18:48.44 | HoloIRCUser | I had to install my hdd in a new system. That's why the fuss. |
| 18:49.45 | HoloIRCUser | Spacebug, I meant keyboard/video/mouse switch for 2 systems, 1 set of auxiliaries. |
| 18:50.14 | spacebug^ | HoloIRCUser: oh I see. Then forget what I talked about :) |
| 18:50.42 | HoloIRCUser | I have to plugin a separate mouse for any mouse functionality within gnome classic. |
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| 18:52.01 | spacebug^ | HoloIRCUser: with "GNOME" you are running wayland which takes cares of input devices etc. In "GNOME Classic" I'm not sure if that uses wayland, I think only Xorg. |
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| 18:55.03 | HoloIRCUser | spacebug^, yeah, I'm with hopes that the video driver fixes it all. |
| 18:55.49 | spacebug^ | (though xorg nowadays should be pretty good at auto-find mouse/keyboard etc) |
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| 18:56.21 | HoloIRCUser | My machine is not conveniently located, so I have to get up & bend my back to see the screen & operate the separate mouse. Ugh. |
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| 19:04.58 | johnyginthehouse | hey are you guys experienced with the debian operating system? |
| 19:05.32 | towo` | no |
| 19:05.40 | spacebug^ | !ask |
| 19:05.40 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 19:05.45 | towo` | the name of that channel was choosen randomly |
| 19:06.18 | johnyginthehouse | I'm sort of new to this linux thing, but there's this directory on my new install of Debian called "/usr/bin". It was all messed up when I first went in there. None of the files had descriptive names, and it took me like an hour to figure out they were executables, since none of them had .exe on the end of them. Furthermore, whenever I double click them, they just pop up command prompt for a few seconds then go away. |
| 19:06.38 | johnyginthehouse | i just want to check if i'm ok to remove this, not sure if it's malware related |
| 19:07.19 | greycat | Troll. *plonk* |
| 19:07.23 | towo` | your kidding, do you? |
| 19:07.35 | greycat | No possible way that's a serious question. |
| 19:07.40 | towo` | of not, yes it's safe to remove all content |
| 19:07.44 | johnyginthehouse | this is my first linux on a laptop |
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| 19:08.13 | johnyginthehouse | I have used vanilla mint on my desktop before |
| 19:08.17 | johnyginthehouse | thanks towo` |
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| 19:08.40 | towo` | so, and mint has not /usr/bin? |
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| 19:09.19 | johnyginthehouse | I didn't check but i wasn't really into kernel stuff and figuring it all out at the time |
| 19:09.47 | towo` | and in mint all executables have .exe as extention? |
| 19:09.49 | johnyginthehouse | either way nothing broke just a warning that kinda scared me when i first tried |
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| 19:10.03 | johnyginthehouse | no that's actually a windows thing i figured out towo` |
| 19:10.11 | towo` | aha |
| 19:11.08 | johnyginthehouse | I'm thinking it probably was a malware kind of issue at this point i'll see if there's a linux mcafee to get it sorted |
| 19:12.22 | madage | you could try to reverse those executables |
| 19:12.41 | johnyginthehouse | you mean hack them madage? |
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| 19:12.48 | HoloIRCUser | Is there some way to auto configure XORG? |
| 19:12.57 | madage | yeah, and then publish the source |
| 19:13.13 | greycat | X is normally used without a config file, since many years ago. |
| 19:13.19 | towo` | HoloIRCUser, xorg does autoconfig since ages |
| 19:13.20 | madage | holy grail of hackerdom |
| 19:13.27 | greycat | You only need a config file for it in uncommon situations. Weird hardware, etc. |
| 19:13.40 | HoloIRCUser | I installed all the AMD Video drivers. I want to configure xorg before I purge nvidia & restart. |
| 19:14.02 | johnyginthehouse | i've actually never hacked an executable before madage, don't even know how to be honest |
| 19:14.02 | towo` | remove all kind of xorg.conf files |
| 19:14.03 | greycat | Though, given your previous questions, I suspect what you're actually asking is, "Is there a way to automatically install all the firmware I need in Debian?" |
| 19:14.06 | greycat | !firmware image |
| 19:14.06 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
| 19:14.09 | greycat | That. |
| 19:15.35 | HoloIRCUser | Uhh, this hdd was within a different system before. Now it's in an amd system. I installed the amd video drivers. Instructions suggest to purge nvidia & restart. |
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| 19:16.21 | HoloIRCUser | I want graphics when I actually restart. |
| 19:16.52 | towo` | then make sure, there is no xorg.conf file anywhere in /etc |
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| 19:17.08 | towo` | and also make sure fimware-amd-graphics is installed |
| 19:17.17 | towo` | *firmware-amd-graphics |
| 19:17.31 | karlpinc | !tell johnyginthehouse about fhs |
| 19:17.45 | HoloIRCUser | towo`, I thought it was weird xorg.conf was missing. |
| 19:18.00 | towo` | what? |
| 19:18.16 | HoloIRCUser | What's the total name of that package? |
| 19:18.24 | towo` | you don't need any kind of x-config for amd graphics |
| 19:18.48 | towo` | which package? |
| 19:19.07 | HoloIRCUser | firmware-amd-graphics |
| 19:19.26 | towo` | that is the name |
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| 19:20.03 | HoloIRCUser | That package wasn't listed. Wait, I'll paste instructions page I followed. |
| 19:20.25 | HoloIRCUser | https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo |
| 19:20.28 | johnyginthehouse | thanks karlpinc ! |
| 19:20.57 | towo` | HoloIRCUser, learn to read |
| 19:20.58 | johnyginthehouse | think this has spread as stuff is failing to open and I might need to reboot, i'll read that though |
| 19:21.02 | towo` | HoloIRCUser, Firmware |
| 19:21.03 | towo` | Proprietary, binary-only firmware (aka microcode) was removed from the Debian kernel's radeon DRM driver in linux-2.6 2.6.29-1, to resolve Debian bug 494009. The firmware can be provided by installing the firmware-amd-graphics or firmware-linux-nonfree package. |
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| 19:22.27 | jhutchins_wk | johnyginthehouse: There is a utility called file that will tell you what a file is. *nix doesn't care about extensions, there is a "magic word" at the beginning of a file to tell the system what to do with it. |
| 19:23.03 | jhutchins_wk | It's not clear what you're seeing, there should be a lot of filels in /usr/bin, that's where the binary programs are. |
| 19:23.22 | greycat | you're all treating this as a serious question. wow. |
| 19:23.22 | jhutchins_wk | johnyginthehouse: System file names may not be intuitive to you yet. |
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| 19:27.32 | jhutchins_wk | I show I show 1465 files in /usr/bin |
| 19:28.22 | greycat | The number will vary based on how much stuff is installed, and whether the system has been usr-merged or not. |
| 19:28.50 | jhutchins_wk | Of course. |
| 19:29.45 | johnyginthehouse | yeha jhutchins_wk i can use that from the command line? |
| 19:30.03 | johnyginthehouse | my shell isn't opening anymore but i have looked it up online |
| 19:30.11 | johnyginthehouse | think I broke something on this pc |
| 19:30.21 | johnyginthehouse | thanks bro |
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| 19:32.00 | karlpinc | greycat: Thought I'd give it the benefit of doubt. There's no limit to ignorance. |
| 19:32.42 | greycat | There's "ignorance", which is lack of knowledge. "What does the directory name /usr/bin mean? What are all these files in it? How can I learn more?" |
| 19:33.10 | greycat | And there's willful self-destruction or trolling. "These files in /usr/bin are useless because they don't have .exe in their names. So I can just remove them all, right?" |
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| 19:36.41 | johnyginthehouse | i am going to re-install debian on this laptop sucks i got stuff all comfortable |
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| 19:36.57 | johnyginthehouse | how is random executables self destruction ?? |
| 19:37.01 | johnyginthehouse | I do that in windows all the time |
| 19:38.01 | johnyginthehouse | there is no reason to mock me and call self destruction |
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| 19:40.09 | oiaohm | johnyginthehouse: Longest I kept a single debian install going without doing a clean install was 2 decades had to update for UEFI. |
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| 19:40.41 | oiaohm | johnyginthehouse: so Linux does not have to be treated the same as you use to treat windows. |
| 19:41.04 | oiaohm | Lot of cases when you have failing Linux installs you have failing hardware. |
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| 19:42.36 | oiaohm | and if you reinstall on failing hardware its going to fail again. |
| 19:42.43 | MadCamel | Linux used to have a lot less complexity and moving parts. Also less features. I feel it's becoming more windows-like as more features are added and this is starting to impact reliability. |
| 19:42.54 | towo` | or he has really removed all the wired stuff in /usr/bin because of fering malware |
| 19:43.18 | oiaohm | MadCamel: really even with the increased moving parts. |
| 19:43.37 | oiaohm | MadCamel: I have not seen the reliablity impacted a lot. |
| 19:43.40 | johnyginthehouse | i think i did delete some needed stuff which greycat calls self destruction i have no clue how I am going to find out what is not malicious on a new install though |
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| 19:44.18 | johnyginthehouse | probably just mcafee scan the iso and then just leave it in there |
| 19:44.20 | towo` | on a new install, nothing is malicious |
| 19:44.30 | towo` | you are really a troll |
| 19:44.32 | oiaohm | johnyginthehouse: Normally you only remove stuff from debian install from core directories by apt/dpkg to make sure you don't delete something you should not. |
| 19:44.48 | johnyginthehouse | ah ok i will look that up oiaohm |
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| 19:45.15 | oiaohm | johnyginthehouse: if you randomally deleted something from core directories you shot yourself. |
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| 19:45.26 | MadCamel | correctly verify the signature of the install media and nothing should be malicious. Or at least you'll be in good company if some malware/backdoor worked it's way into the packages.. |
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| 19:46.38 | johnyginthehouse | i don't even have a core folder oiaohm, just some stuff from /usr/bin and only after asking |
| 19:47.06 | oiaohm | johnyginthehouse: everything under /usr is in the core of the system folders. |
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| 19:47.21 | oiaohm | johnyginthehouse: so that not where you should be playing. |
| 19:47.37 | oiaohm | https://blog.sleeplessbeastie.eu/2015/03/02/how-to-verify-installed-packages/ Mind you there is way to repair a system from this. |
| 19:47.42 | johnyginthehouse | windows user folders is usually where malware is |
| 19:48.09 | oiaohm | <PROTECTED> |
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| 19:48.27 | towo` | i think, he is trolling |
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| 19:49.10 | oiaohm | johnyginthehouse: usr actually means Unix System Resources. |
| 19:49.35 | oiaohm | The missing e makes it a complete different word. |
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| 19:49.57 | oiaohm | If you debsum you system you will find what packages have missing files. |
| 19:50.03 | ratrace | *user* system resources |
| 19:50.16 | greycat | oiaohm: that sounds incorrect. It's not an acronym. It originally meant "user", because it's where the user home directories were. Then things got moved around because of hardware limitations and so on. |
| 19:50.32 | oiaohm | greycat: someone dug back into history. |
| 19:50.33 | ratrace | traditionally unix put ~/ under /usr/home, and /usr stood for "user[ system resources]" |
| 19:51.03 | oiaohm | It has 3 different defines by 3 different early developers of unix. |
| 19:51.21 | ratrace | infact, the only reason it exists, is because "someone" ran out of disk space so they needed to mount another drive. and thus, a whole dogma of where what should go, based on someone running out of disk space :) |
| 19:51.46 | ratrace | like in a Monty Python sketch |
| 19:51.47 | greycat | being out of disk space was extremely common for decades |
| 19:51.49 | mrig | Hello, i have a sony ereader, PRS-T2 and am using debian 10, I used to be able to read and write to the device via usb without any trouble but now am am told that it is a read only file system. Is there any way around this? |
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| 19:52.16 | jhutchins_wk | johnyginthehouse: mcaffee is not going to find malicious linux code. |
| 19:52.24 | johnyginthehouse | so it's /home/USERNAME now instead of /usr/username |
| 19:52.27 | ratrace | greycat: yes yes, but I mean, some people today go to war over hier(7) and /usr/local (*cough* FreeBSDtards *cough*), oblivious to why that dir exists at all :) |
| 19:52.41 | jhutchins_wk | johnyginthehouse: The correct way to validate the iso is to verify the checksum and signature. |
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| 19:53.40 | ratrace | johnyginthehouse: /usr/home/USERNAME |
| 19:54.12 | greycat | Debian puts user home directories in /home by default. So all this talk of /usr/home is either historical curiosity, or troll-feeding. |
| 19:54.40 | ratrace | it's historical. I mentioned in context of usr being "user" and not "unix" |
| 19:55.06 | jhutchins_wk | It's amusing to see people reverse-engineer acronyms. Things that once stood for one thing are asserted to stand for something completely different. |
| 19:55.29 | greycat | I find it less amusing and more aggravating, but that might be just me. |
| 19:55.52 | jhutchins_wk | ratrace: Can you site any reference for that? |
| 19:56.40 | greycat | Wikipedia references https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/notes.html which says, "In particular, in our own version of the system, there is a directory "/usr" which contains all user's directories, and which is stored on a relatively large, but slow moving head disk, while the othe files are on the fast but small fixed-head disk." |
| 19:56.42 | ratrace | jhutchins_wk: you can ask googs, I just remember how we called it 30+ years ago |
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| 19:57.08 | ratrace | meanwhile, history has it that /usr was born out of disk space needs, and BSDs symlink /home to /usr/home |
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| 19:59.35 | oiaohm | ratrace: 3 different developers. You have the BSD, IBM and SUN. Depends on who documentation you are using depends on what USR means. |
| 20:00.05 | oiaohm | But its safer to think IBM these days. |
| 20:00.05 | greycat | I still contend it's nothing more than a shortening of the word "user". |
| 20:00.07 | spacebug^ | ..and also what did Linus mean with /usr when he made Linux? |
| 20:00.24 | greycat | He simply adopted decades-old Unix traditions. |
| 20:00.39 | greycat | Decade and a half, anyway. |
| 20:00.42 | oiaohm | greycat: what you stated is sun. |
| 20:00.55 | greycat | What I just stated is also Dennis Richie. |
| 20:01.21 | MadCamel | Great example of how old standards never die, even if nobody can remember where they came from. |
| 20:01.35 | oiaohm | user system resources is what bsd starts using |
| 20:01.56 | oiaohm | Because the directory was user stuff and system resources. |
| 20:02.23 | johnyginthehouse | what does linus torvalds have to say ? he invented linux |
| 20:02.33 | annadane | "shut up idiot" probably |
| 20:02.41 | ratrace | oiaohm: the reference goes to the very first UNIX, back in 1960s and PDP stuff, and Thomson & Ritchie running out of disk space and thus /usr was born. That's the original story. Later reintrepretatoins and renamings of /usr are less important :) |
| 20:03.09 | edi_ | annadane, +1 |
| 20:03.16 | oiaohm | johnyginthehouse: on this topic Linus has no interesting other than /usr directory name was need for application compadiblity. |
| 20:03.39 | oiaohm | johnyginthehouse: please note Linux is the kernel not the userspace from Linus point of view. |
| 20:04.00 | oiaohm | So /usr is not Linus problem |
| 20:04.24 | ratrace | true that. it's GNU's, or more likely systemd's these days :) |
| 20:05.09 | oiaohm | The largest number of Linux kernels installed on earth are in Android devices. |
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| 20:05.35 | ratrace | which also makes arm the most used arch |
| 20:08.10 | oiaohm | ratrace: just barely its about 51 percent arm vs everything else. Server and desktop combind use to be more than mobile. |
| 20:08.27 | johnyginthehouse | I didn't know android was linux I have never seen a usr folder in file explorer with mine connected |
| 20:08.37 | johnyginthehouse | must be completely different in the setup |
| 20:08.56 | oiaohm | Item with a Linux kernel don't have to have a Unix style layout. |
| 20:08.59 | towo` | root your device and you will see that structure |
| 20:09.07 | greycat | these numbers are surely in flux, with the mobile share increasing |
| 20:10.28 | ratrace | johnyginthehouse: google up GoboLinux for some interesting ideas. Linux is a kernel that couldn't care less what the dir naming and layout is, btw. |
| 20:10.53 | greycat | I think it cares only about /sbin/init |
| 20:11.06 | oiaohm | greycat: that 51% was from dec 2019 numbers. |
| 20:11.24 | ratrace | greycat: not even that, as the path can be anything, either compiled or via init= command line arg |
| 20:11.35 | greycat | but it *is* compiled in... |
| 20:11.47 | oiaohm | greycat: but now that arm has the lead I don't see that changing back anytime soon. |
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| 20:12.23 | greycat | cat /proc/cmdline => no mention of /sbin/init so it had to come from the kernel itself |
| 20:12.57 | johnyginthehouse | yea tho i was poorly trolling from a debian copypasta |
| 20:13.21 | ratrace | greycat: yes but the context matters. talking about the kernel and its use in whatever case that not necesssarily a "linux based distro", then "compiled in" is whatever those who compile it, want. |
| 20:13.31 | johnyginthehouse | greycat is confirmed both based & undeniably patrician |
| 20:13.33 | ratrace | GoboLinux is one such interesting use case. |
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| 20:15.09 | oiaohm | https://nixos.wiki/wiki/NixOS is another fun one no /usr directory there. |
| 20:15.16 | oiaohm | Yet it is a Linux. |
| 20:15.42 | ratrace | you mean it's a GNU/Linux distro, yes. RMS has a point here, and it's not necessarily political at all. :) |
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| 20:16.18 | ratrace | the distinction is even more important with the fact that Linux (the kernel) is used massively in non-GNU applications |
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| 20:18.19 | MadCamel | It's harder to type though. So excuse me if I just say linux :) |
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| 20:18.55 | jhutchins_wk | A standard practice of abbreviation at IBM was to drop all of the vowels. |
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| 20:24.16 | coyotesays | gnu/linux forever! or until balmer extend-extinguishes it |
| 20:24.34 | coyotesays | linux is kernel not osð |
| 20:24.56 | oiaohm | coyotesays: really more of the Microsoft income is coming dependant that Linux operating systems work. |
| 20:25.38 | asymptotically | why stop at gnu/linux? why not xfce/x11/gnu/linux? |
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| 20:25.55 | coyotesays | we clearly have a different definition of when something works. no offenseðð |
| 20:26.42 | oiaohm | coyotesays: switches in Azure cloud services are running debian. If they stopped so would Azure. |
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| 20:26.51 | misterred | error: cannot list snaps: cannot communicate with server: Get http://localhost/v2/find?q=Telegram&scope=wide: dial unix /run/snapd.socket: connect: no such file or directory |
| 20:27.06 | coyotesays | debian actual or a fork? |
| 20:27.31 | misterred | debian stable 10 |
| 20:27.39 | misterred | oh not |
| 20:27.43 | misterred | it's mx linux |
| 20:27.49 | misterred | on my virtual box |
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| 20:29.13 | oiaohm | coyotesays: its a debian fork called sonic to be correct. |
| 20:29.27 | coyotesays | thought so |
| 20:29.29 | oiaohm | coyotesays: ie they had to add the switch switch. |
| 20:29.38 | ratrace | oiaohm: wait, I thought that was "MS Linux", some specific distro variant MS uses internally |
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| 20:30.51 | coyotesays | do they keep gpl on it? they are legally required to.. |
| 20:31.22 | misterred | some help with snap? |
| 20:31.24 | oiaohm | coyotesays: all the parts of sonic are open source and most of it is gpl. |
| 20:32.03 | coyotesays | hmm most? is that legal? |
| 20:32.13 | oiaohm | coyotesays: its all legal. |
| 20:33.01 | coyotesays | i thought the software can't be used as part of nonfree software (gpl) |
| 20:33.04 | coyotesays | ? |
| 20:33.13 | ratrace | they can "violate" GPL all they want internally. the licensing is applicable when you distribute software |
| 20:33.27 | greycat | The license operates at the program level. A program is either licensed under the GPL, or not. |
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| 20:33.42 | greycat | It doesn't apply to an entire operating system. |
| 20:34.17 | coyotesays | wat greycat. wat. ?? |
| 20:34.30 | oiaohm | coyotesays: who said sonic had any non freesoftware. https://github.com/Azure/sonic-buildimage/blob/master/LICENSE |
| 20:34.35 | greycat | There are programs in Debian that are licensed under the GPL, and programs that are not. |
| 20:34.53 | coyotesays | u did i thought, oiaohm |
| 20:35.09 | coyotesays | 'most of it is gpl' |
| 20:35.33 | greycat | There are other free licenses besides the GPL, like various BSD-based licenses, the Apache license, etc. |
| 20:35.47 | greycat | !dfsg |
| 20:35.47 | dpkg | DFSG is the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are explained at http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines . For a full list of DFSG-compatible/incompatible software licenses, see http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses |
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| 20:37.32 | oiaohm | coyotesays: https://github.com/Azure/sonic-buildimage/blob/master/ThirdPartyLicenses.txt sorry wrong link. Most of it gpl is correct. What is not gpl is a little bit of apache license stuff. |
| 20:39.15 | greycat | For Debian, also remember that each individual package is required to contain its license in the file /usr/share/doc/whatever/copyright. A package *usually* only has one license... not quite sure how it works if a single package has software under two or more different licenses. |
| 20:39.49 | oiaohm | coyotesays: it catches some people how dependant on Linux to work Microsoft is coming. |
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| 20:40.33 | oiaohm | greycat: multi license packages you will normally see the copyright file get more complex like that thirdpartylicenses file. Stating X is Y license and so on. |
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| 20:41.03 | oiaohm | greycat: its still one file just more mess of 1 file. |
| 20:41.45 | ratrace | I always found it amusig when there's multiple licenses. "Choose one", really. How stupid is that. |
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| 20:52.40 | karlpinc | ratrace: Sometimes you can't help having multiple licenses because you wind up borrowing code from another project. |
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| 20:56.20 | physiology | Hi all. If I unplug a monitor and plug it back in, it is not recognized on my debian system (but is on a like system with a different linux installed). Is there a setting on Debian to recognize a monitor when plugged in after boot? |
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| 21:02.40 | OerHeks | physiology, machine = laptop ? |
| 21:03.14 | *** join/#debian cdown (~cdown@89.32.122.5) |
| 21:03.14 | OerHeks | you might have a FN key for monitor internal/external/both |
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| 21:03.36 | physiology | OerHeks: A ProtectLI, actually. |
| 21:03.39 | physiology | In both cases. |
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| 21:05.48 | physiology | I've noticed that my IP and bridge settings do persist after a reboot either. |
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| 21:39.33 | plantroon | I grew up with Windows and am a hardcore Linux user :D I used to run Archlinux but now I'm on Debian so that I can leave autoupdates on and not care about it |
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| 21:40.21 | plantroon | lol, I was scrolled way up :D was reacting to some msg :D :D |
| 21:41.19 | annadane | yeah, debian has a lot going for it. you can get newer software but it's what *you* want and not *everything* |
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| 21:44.07 | ryouma | am i going to have success getting sound towork now that i have tried (usually outdated) debian-oriented sites, by going to arch sites (for my debian stretch)? |
| 21:44.51 | plantroon | arch docs are awesome and may help a lot. But sound usually works OOTB just by installing alsa, pulseaudio and some full desktop environment ... |
| 21:44.58 | festerjester | Anyone know which package I need to install to minimal network support? |
| 21:45.04 | greycat | If it's stretch, it's not the timidity thing. Probably. It could be the general horribleness of pulseaudio. That's pretty common. |
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| 21:46.03 | ryouma | plantroon: i am using an installation that worked on a prvious box. so i am changing hardware. but it is the same stretch. but sound is not working. and debian-oriented wikis and stuff don't seem to be helping. |
| 21:46.19 | ryouma | (and i do not use a de) |
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| 21:46.56 | plantroon | ryouma: open alsamixer and see what sound cards it lists |
| 21:47.05 | greycat | If you don't use a DE, you can probably use the greycat solution: don't use pulseaudio.\ |
| 21:47.15 | plantroon | or pavucontrol .. are you using pulse? |
| 21:47.20 | greycat | Just use regular ALSA. |
| 21:48.42 | ryouma | plantroon: realtec alc662 hda intel mid |
| 21:48.51 | plantroon | is it unmuted? |
| 21:49.12 | ryouma | plantroon: no, i had sound problems long ago on the old computer and purging pulse fixed that completely. no problems after that |
| 21:49.17 | ryouma | it is unmuted |
| 21:49.51 | greycat | Speakers or headphones in the correct jack? Speakers powered on? Speaker volume knob not at zero? Playing audio in a program that supports ALSA output? |
| 21:51.01 | ryouma | yes to all |
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| 21:51.49 | plantroon | maybe for a quick test, try booting a live debian with gnome or something, or ubuntu live, to see if it works on Linux ... |
| 21:52.45 | greycat | I'm not familiar with Realtec here... any chance it might need firmware? Does dmesg | grep -i firmware show any errors? |
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| 21:54.55 | ryouma | no errors |
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| 21:59.11 | greycat | Well, the only things I can think of that would cause silent audio playback are hardware, or volume/mute settings. |
| 22:00.20 | greycat | (loose plug, plug in the wrong hole, etc. are things that you shouldn't overlook) |
| 22:00.40 | ryouma | same color as on previous box. tried other jack also. |
| 22:00.48 | ryouma | not loose. |
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| 22:01.01 | ryouma | i have a plug in sound card. it did not work either. |
| 22:01.19 | ryouma | but idk if i was as careful when i tried it. but nothing is muted. |
| 22:01.20 | greycat | if the machine has TWO audio device, then that's a whole 'nother can of worms |
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| 22:01.31 | ryouma | it is ont plugged in |
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| 22:01.37 | greycat | getting ALSA to play through the correct audio device when it has a CHOICE of devices is a black art |
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| 22:02.34 | T61Shark | How can I get rid of zombie processors? It's terrible |
| 22:02.39 | greycat | !zombie |
| 22:02.39 | dpkg | A zombie process is one which has issued an exit(), but whose parent has not yet issued wait() (or one of its variants) to retrieve the exit code. This usually means the parent process is buggy. You can't kill a zombie, because it's already dead; you have to kill the parent, or just ignore the zombie. |
| 22:02.51 | T61Shark | I have two apps under Debian which are doing that: VLC and youtube-dl |
| 22:02.57 | joepublic | I have seen some zombie processors on ebay |
| 22:03.06 | T61Shark | Why the fuck does kill -9 work? How buggy is the crappy Linux kernel. |
| 22:03.15 | T61Shark | Oops, why doesn't it work. |
| 22:03.23 | greycat | kill does nothing to a zombie. not even kill -9. the zombie is already killed. |
| 22:03.29 | joepublic | because it's already dead? |
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| 22:04.17 | greycat | maybe he read the bot's factoid and quit because he had learned everything needed |
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| 22:04.44 | greycat | (hahahaha, yeah, I know, silly cat) |
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| 22:06.48 | annadane | "why i switched to freebsd" |
| 22:06.58 | annadane | "stupid kill -9 stupid linux" |
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| 22:33.56 | ratrace | annadane: I think you killed the cat |
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| 22:34.22 | ratrace | /bin/kill'ed I mean |
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| 22:37.44 | ryouma | aren't a lot of zombies owned by 1? |
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| 22:50.24 | ksk | pid 1 is kind of the father of all processes? ;) |
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| 23:04.13 | misterred | hi |
| 23:04.58 | ryouma | the horse talks |
| 23:05.17 | dvs | heh |
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| 23:06.41 | misterred | oh hey |
| 23:06.49 | misterred | how are you? |
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| 23:42.44 | bulbasauurr | Hello world !!! |
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| 23:44.05 | bulbasauurr | Does anyone over here maybe knows how to get gnuradio working in parrotsec or kali ? |
| 23:44.17 | bulbasauurr | ubuntu gnuradio just works fine |
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| 23:45.41 | festerjester | More info is needed. Errors, problems, etc |
| 23:46.05 | festerjester | One can Google how to install gnuradio. |
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| 23:47.42 | festerjester | Guess that was not the answer bulbasauurr was looking for. |
| 23:54.11 | dvs | festerjester, you scared him! ;-P |
| 23:57.18 | sponix | festerjester: the RTFM answer ? |
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