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| 00:14.07 | un214 | I don't suppose there's any way I can just tell systemd to not wait for hard disk containing / to come up? |
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| 00:16.10 | ratrace | un214: / is already up from initramfs, cannot _not_ be up... |
| 00:16.28 | ratrace | or else you can't boot, that is. |
| 00:16.29 | un214 | ratrace: exactly, but systemd gets stuck waiting for it |
| 00:16.39 | ratrace | waiting for what exactly |
| 00:16.46 | un214 | waiting for / to come up |
| 00:16.50 | ratrace | pastebin pls |
| 00:17.13 | un214 | #947806 |
| 00:17.14 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/947806 in systemd (open, moreinfo): «systemd doesn't like my raid, times out waiting for online partitions to come online, and can't continue boot»; severity: important; opened: 2019-12-31; last modified: 2019-12-31. |
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| 00:18.08 | ratrace | !xy |
| 00:18.08 | dpkg | Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem |
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| 00:19.00 | un214 | ratrace: that makes very little sense at this point |
| 00:19.59 | un214 | systemd is stuck waiting for a notification that's never going to come |
| 00:20.20 | ratrace | can you pastebin the verbiage of that "getting stuck"? |
| 00:21.31 | un214 | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?att=1;bug=947806;filename=systemd1.log;msg=22 |
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| 00:22.17 | un214 | Timed out waiting for device /dev/mapper/isw_cfbejbfeib_Volume14. |
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| 00:22.55 | dD_ | is there any way to check why my ethernet light will turn on during the booting process but will stop working once the OS is running? Even during install? How can I debug this? |
| 00:23.21 | un214 | the ethernet light will turn on on power on and stay on until the first packet is sent |
| 00:23.33 | un214 | once a packet is sent, it turns off whenever no packet is being sent |
| 00:23.37 | petn-randall | un214: Why are you actually bringing it up here when you're already getting helped in the bug report? |
| 00:24.10 | dD_ | un214, so it'll send a packet and if nobody answers it'll be off? |
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| 00:24.21 | un214 | dD_ right: |
| 00:25.13 | un214 | pten-randall: because it's gone in a loop for 10 days and no progress is being made |
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| 00:25.58 | petn-randall | un214: The bug report already said that dmraid is dead, and suggested moving to mdadm. |
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| 00:27.20 | un214 | and I would say rather that dmraid hasn't done anything because it doesn't need to |
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| 00:28.47 | petn-randall | You can always file a RC bug against dmraid, in which case it'll just get removed in the next release. |
| 00:29.00 | un214 | anyway, you can't just swap dmraid for mdadm unless you want to lose fast-recovery from power loss |
| 00:29.39 | dD_ | un214, could this have to do with the OS? |
| 00:29.46 | petn-randall | Well, right now I'd say "unbootable system" outweighs fast-recovery. Which is a moot feature anyway. |
| 00:30.07 | un214 | but the system boots with sysvinit just fine |
| 00:30.17 | petn-randall | Then stick with sysv init? |
| 00:30.44 | petn-randall | Just because the bug doesn't show up with sysv init doesn't mean it's not there. |
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| 00:31.14 | petn-randall | You also have fast recovery if you enable write-intent bitmaps in mdadm, which is the default. |
| 00:31.15 | un214 | it's a very simple bug in systemd: the dmraid devices are already up, so don't wait for them |
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| 00:34.11 | un214 | switching from dmraid to mdadm requires rebuilding the hard disks |
| 00:34.47 | petn-randall | Do it once and be happy. On the plus side you can put those disks into *any* other system and it'll just boot. |
| 00:34.51 | un214 | the descriptors are too different |
| 00:35.15 | un214 | petn-randall: actually I can do that now |
| 00:35.32 | un214 | if I pull these disks and drop them into another system, they will boot just fine |
| 00:35.45 | un214 | I'll just lose the fast-recovery since it's not hardware assisted anymore |
| 00:36.22 | petn-randall | So what exactly does the HW do? |
| 00:36.55 | un214 | it stores the last write address in NVRAM |
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| 00:38.18 | petn-randall | So like the write-intent bitmap? |
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| 00:39.31 | un214 | I don't know how the write-intent bitmap works yet, but it's doing the same job |
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| 00:41.05 | un214 | the other advantage of the HW raid is it's actually available at boot time via BIOS calls |
| 00:41.45 | petn-randall | But it's still in software, and does a weird hand-off to the OS at some point. |
| 00:42.05 | petn-randall | So I don't see any advantage to mdadm, really, unless you're dual-booting Windows. |
| 00:42.33 | ratrace | Ah, so we moved from "how to prevent waiting for /" to "how to fix dmraid. k :) |
| 00:42.34 | joepublic | mdadm requires nothing in the way of hardware other than the storage devices; that could be an advantage |
| 00:42.47 | un214 | you don't have to a seek between every write to the disk |
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| 00:43.33 | petn-randall | I'd be with you if you'd be making a point that HW RAID controllers with BBU and write-back cache are better, but mdraid is just a less tested and less adaptable mdadm. |
| 00:44.23 | petn-randall | un214: How does mdraid have to seek less than mdadm? |
| 00:44.43 | un214 | because the equivalent of the write-intent bitmap is in NVRAM instead of disk |
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| 00:47.32 | petn-randall | In reality those writes make up < 1% of the writes. And you can even configure the size to optimize for write speed or recovery speed! |
| 00:47.54 | petn-randall | Or you could buy a 50$ HW RAID controller and beat any other solution. |
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| 00:50.11 | joepublic | is there one you recommend? |
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| 00:51.29 | Jalapenogamer27 | So which distro of linux is best for low end devices |
| 00:51.36 | un214 | I'm sitting here with a broken systemd, a grafted solution that everybody else wants to blame every other problem on, and in fact seriously considering putting sysvinit back on |
| 00:52.03 | joepublic | I am running debian on my severly underpowered olinuxinos |
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| 00:52.38 | petn-randall | I bought the cheapest LSI megaraid controller I could find that handles disks > 2TB, I paid like 30 euros for it. |
| 00:52.47 | un214 | anyway removing dmraid would be really stupid because than a bunch of people won't be able to boot at all on upgrade |
| 00:52.58 | Jalapenogamer27 | im using puppy linux but i want it to be my distro for this pc plz help me |
| 00:53.08 | petn-randall | un214: It would be put in the release notes and people would know before upgrading. |
| 00:53.10 | un214 | (there's a kernel driver) |
| 00:53.27 | Jalapenogamer27 | theres no install that i can find |
| 00:53.37 | petn-randall | Jalapenogamer27: You're only going to get recommendations for Debian in this channel. |
| 00:53.46 | joepublic | I recommend debian. |
| 00:53.47 | Jalapenogamer27 | ok |
| 00:54.06 | Jalapenogamer27 | how big is debian |
| 00:54.17 | un214 | 200mb by debootstrap |
| 00:54.28 | un214 | but that's not the right question |
| 00:55.03 | karlpinc | Jalapenogamer27: There's also arch linux. But you can do a really minimal debian install and run on small hardware. |
| 00:55.20 | un214 | anyway, next system I build will have solid state drives, then the seeks won't matter |
| 00:55.22 | joepublic | how about this: what device, and how much storage does it have? |
| 00:55.33 | un214 | but that's a few years out |
| 00:56.11 | un214 | in the meantime, it'll take 40 hours to rebuild the disks, and I don't have 40 hours contiguous to do it in |
| 00:56.13 | karlpinc | Jalapenogamer27: And what do you want it to do? Is a full Gnome desktop running multiple monitors playing videos a requirement? |
| 00:56.20 | Jalapenogamer27 | this pc im using is from 2002 (i think) and ran windows vista. its 1 core 2.33 ghz |
| 00:56.36 | Jalapenogamer27 | does that help? |
| 00:56.45 | joepublic | you might want to add a storage device |
| 00:56.49 | karlpinc | Jalapenogamer27: Debian will work fine. Consider the unoffical installer with non-free firmware to make life simple. |
| 00:56.54 | karlpinc | !firmware images |
| 00:56.54 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
| 00:57.24 | un214 | mdadm can't replace dmraid in place. |
| 00:57.41 | petn-randall | un214: What's the raid level, and how large is the logical disk? |
| 00:57.49 | Jalapenogamer27 | how do i install debian? |
| 00:57.59 | petn-randall | !release notes |
| 00:57.59 | dpkg | The release notes for Debian 10 "Buster" are at https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ . See also <stretch->buster>, <buster install guide> |
| 00:58.00 | un214 | currently RAID 1 at 1TB |
| 00:58.11 | karlpinc | Jalapenogamer27: You can work from the command line? Then do a minimal install to get going and add a gui and X on top of that. That way you can see how much your gui choices might use in disk. |
| 00:58.12 | un214 | the last full backup took 20 hours |
| 00:58.16 | petn-randall | un214: Hwo many disks? |
| 00:58.34 | petn-randall | Wait, two. |
| 00:58.39 | karlpinc | Jalapenogamer27: The installation instructions are on the front page of debian.org. |
| 00:59.07 | Jalapenogamer27 | thx for the help everyone. im pretty new to linux so thanks for the help |
| 00:59.10 | petn-randall | un214: That shouldn't take 20 hours to read a full 1 TB, even with 5400 rpm platters. |
| 00:59.18 | un214 | 2, but I can't add more disks to the chassis |
| 00:59.46 | un214 | pten-randall: it could have thoretically been 3 disks |
| 01:00.09 | karlpinc | Jalapenogamer27: You saw the message about firmware? |
| 01:00.31 | petn-randall | un214: You can split the RAID, create a degraded mdadm RAID1 on the one disk, copy all data over, then add the other and let it rebuild. |
| 01:00.33 | Jalapenogamer27 | karlpinc: yes |
| 01:00.44 | petn-randall | un214: Should be done in a couple of hours. |
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| 01:01.29 | un214 | I wonder if my ancient hard disk partitions have gotten fragmented |
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| 01:01.38 | un214 | hint: they're much older than the disks they're on |
| 01:01.47 | petn-randall | heh :) |
| 01:02.07 | un214 | though the actual chokepoint on the dump is the 100mbit network line |
| 01:02.07 | petn-randall | If you started out with ext2 and upgraded them to ext3 then ext4, you might have. |
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| 01:02.16 | un214 | they started ext3 |
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| 01:02.57 | petn-randall | new kernels allow for pre-allocation, so a fresh copy should give you unfragmented data. |
| 01:03.01 | un214 | is there a reason I should not power a disk from one chassis and put its sata port into another chassis |
| 01:04.59 | petn-randall | I've done it before, just make sure both chassis are grounded and you should be fine. |
| 01:06.00 | Jalapenogamer27 | can i create a live usb with puppy linux? |
| 01:06.30 | un214 | that'll get me 3 disks, but I really wish I had a scratch monkey for the degraded raid thing |
| 01:08.48 | un214 | I really don't feel like reloading the OS because I've got software that isn't in the repos anymore |
| 01:09.14 | karlpinc | Jalapenogamer27: You'd have to ask the puppy linux people. |
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| 01:10.12 | petn-randall | Jalapenogamer27: The release notes I've linked you come with instructions on how to prepare the installation disks; they usually apply to any Linux. |
| 01:10.47 | karlpinc | petn-randall: Um, the release notes are instructions for upgrading Debian. |
| 01:11.42 | karlpinc | is annoyed that the release notes are buried away inside debian.org and are hard to find by reading page content. |
| 01:11.51 | petn-randall | Ah, it's installation guide. |
| 01:11.54 | petn-randall | !installation guide |
| 01:11.55 | dpkg | The Installation Guide for Debian 10 "Buster" can be found at https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/installmanual . See also <errata> and <buster release notes>. |
| 01:12.02 | petn-randall | Jalapenogamer27: ^^^ |
| 01:12.24 | Jalapenogamer27 | thx |
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| 01:22.39 | Jalapenogamer27 | so how does debian work? i used to have mx linux so would it be simaliar |
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| 01:23.55 | Jalapenogamer27 | bye |
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| 01:26.13 | Jalapenogamer27 | is mx linux similar to debian or are they different |
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| 01:39.37 | joepublic | mx linux is a "Based on Debian" |
| 01:39.41 | joepublic | dpkg: based on debian |
| 01:39.41 | dpkg | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
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| 02:55.33 | subsume | hi there, getting an error code 100 while trying to apt-get mysql-server 5.7 debian9 stretch |
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| 02:56.27 | subsume | seeing things like Policy-rc.d denied execution of start |
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| 03:13.42 | JackFrost | subsume: What does /usr/sbin/policy-rcd.d say? |
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| 03:18.12 | subsume | thanks for the reply. "No such file or directory" |
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| 03:27.46 | solrize | man, apt-get install cups --install-suggested downloaded 100s of packages (4gb total), installed a lot of seemingly irrelevant stuff like apache and mariadb and samba, and then completely messed up my system to the point where it can't start the x server on boot any more. it was a fairly new install so i'm gonna reinstall from scratch but this is messed up. wonder if i should try to reproduce it and/or open a bug |
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| 03:29.10 | dvs | solrize, why would you install suggested files? |
| 03:30.20 | dac894 | seems I have a issue with installed suggestions as well, on raspbian, rasises eyebrow, very strange |
| 03:30.40 | dvs | !raspbian |
| 03:30.40 | dpkg | Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. https://www.raspbian.org/ |
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| 05:50.10 | hanasaki1 | what would you expect a base min kernel without X running to take in megabytes? |
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| 06:04.12 | ficklepickle | DietPi advertises itself as a minimal debian-based build for rpi, and it starts at 400mb. But that is image size, do you mean memory usage? |
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| 06:07.02 | ficklepickle | debian netinst is 355mb, I think it's a minimal bootable debian build. But I really don't know sh!t. |
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| 06:19.59 | linux_user | Hello all. I am install Debian 10.2 via the Net Install ISO. At one point it gave me a menu of systems to choose to install, one was "GNOME Desktop" another was "Debian Desktop Environment", what is the Debian Desktop Environment, it is a replacement for GNOME or KDE? |
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| 06:21.26 | diogenes_ | linux_user, Debian Desktop Environment = gnome. |
| 06:21.29 | jm_ | debian desktop will also give you gnome |
| 06:21.39 | linux_user | I am confused |
| 06:21.52 | linux_user | is it gnome or is it multiple desktops? why is GNOME still a choice then? |
| 06:22.26 | jm_ | it is gnome |
| 06:22.37 | linux_user | No, there was a different entry for GNOME on the install |
| 06:22.41 | linux_user | what is the difference then? |
| 06:22.53 | linux_user | why have two entries if they are the same? |
| 06:23.46 | linux_user | I do not understand |
| 06:23.49 | linux_user | can you be more specific? |
| 06:23.55 | jm_ | there is no difference - the point is, if debian changes the default DE the other option will always give you the default ... |
| 06:24.18 | ZaZaGX | you can do muliple choice if you want |
| 06:24.57 | linux_user | huh? |
| 06:25.05 | linux_user | I do not understand what you mean |
| 06:25.15 | ZaZaGX | I installed Gnome and KDE at the sametime before |
| 06:25.30 | linux_user | I do not want or use KDE |
| 06:25.35 | linux_user | I never said anything about KDE |
| 06:25.41 | linux_user | ok, let me rephrase my question |
| 06:26.05 | linux_user | when the installer gets to a certain point it has "Debian Desktop Environment" ticked off, then below it lists KDE, GNOME, etc... |
| 06:26.18 | ZaZaGX | ah huh |
| 06:26.43 | linux_user | so if I choose GNOME and Debian Desktop Environment it loads exactly the same number of packages as if I just picked Debian Desktop environment? |
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| 06:26.48 | linux_user | there is zero difference? |
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| 06:28.10 | ZaZaGX | if you don't choice anything. it just installs no Gnome packages |
| 06:28.31 | ZaZaGX | like you won't have the GUI to connect to the wifi |
| 06:29.17 | linux_user | that I understand but it is not what I asked. |
| 06:29.35 | linux_user | so if I choose GNOME ---> AND <---Debian Desktop Environment it loads exactly the same number of packages as if I just picked Debian Desktop environment? |
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| 06:33.08 | ZaZaGX | yes |
| 06:33.31 | ZaZaGX | if you don't click the check box of the GNOME. you won't install the GNOME |
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| 06:34.12 | ZaZaGX | well, not exactly |
| 06:34.44 | linux_user | but you said Debian Desktop Environment and GNOME are the same? So why is checking both any difference than just checking Debian Desktop Environment? |
| 06:35.03 | linux_user | I do not understand |
| 06:35.08 | ZaZaGX | you choose Desbian Desktop Environment and check box the GNOME. you will install the GNOME |
| 06:35.17 | linux_user | Yes, I get that |
| 06:35.32 | linux_user | what happens when I check just Debian Desktop Environment without checking GNOME? |
| 06:35.37 | ZaZaGX | Debian Desktop Environment only doesn't install any GNOME |
| 06:35.39 | linux_user | you said it is the same right? |
| 06:35.42 | ZaZaGX | No |
| 06:35.51 | ZaZaGX | You don't get all the Gnome apps |
| 06:36.09 | linux_user | So I get some subset of GNOME? |
| 06:36.19 | ZaZaGX | Like you won't get the Graphical User Interface to connect to the wifi and stuff and all the apps |
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| 06:36.28 | ZaZaGX | i'm not sure |
| 06:36.49 | ZaZaGX | not having a DE is not useful. unless you want to use the terminal and command lines all the time |
| 06:36.51 | linux_user | But if you are saying I get no GUI at all, then what is Debian Desktop Environment a Text interface? |
| 06:37.53 | ZaZaGX | I don't rememeber much because i did that once. I didn't liked it because i couldn't do anything on it. it had only a couple of applications preinstalled |
| 06:38.14 | linux_user | again, same question, if Debian Desktop Environment is the same as GNOME, how can checking just just Debian Desktop Environment get me less than GNOME gives me? |
| 06:38.31 | linux_user | what you are saying makes no sense |
| 06:38.40 | linux_user | but I am trying to understand truly |
| 06:38.41 | ZaZaGX | your question makes no sense |
| 06:38.44 | linux_user | not argue with me |
| 06:38.51 | linux_user | ok, let me restate it a 3rd time then: |
| 06:39.01 | ZaZaGX | I just told you |
| 06:39.13 | ZaZaGX | just use logic and use your brain |
| 06:39.43 | ZaZaGX | If you don't click on GNOME. you won't get all the Gnome applications preinstalled on your desktop |
| 06:40.04 | linux_user | then what does Debian Desktop Environment give you if you do not get GNOME without checking GNOME? |
| 06:40.24 | han-solo | whatever that was checked at the time of installation... |
| 06:40.25 | linux_user | It gives you KDE? |
| 06:40.46 | ZaZaGX | none |
| 06:40.48 | linux_user | I mean, if I check Debian Desktop Environment and I do not check KDE or GNOME or anything, is there going to be a GUI? |
| 06:40.56 | han-solo | no |
| 06:40.58 | ZaZaGX | yes, it looks like Gnome |
| 06:41.05 | linux_user | but it is not GNOME? |
| 06:41.06 | ZaZaGX | but its not the same as Gnome |
| 06:41.11 | ZaZaGX | not gnome |
| 06:41.14 | linux_user | ok |
| 06:41.31 | linux_user | it is something Debian developed that is different from GNOME's look and feel then? |
| 06:41.32 | ZaZaGX | if you don't click on anything. you won't download the files |
| 06:41.34 | han-solo | if you don't mark a DE, you get a default DE anyway ? |
| 06:42.08 | ZaZaGX | you just get a file manager and no web browser. |
| 06:42.13 | linux_user | So clicking Debian Desktop Environment gets you a desktop that is not GNOME but one Debian made? |
| 06:43.00 | ZaZaGX | just pick a Desktop Envoironment of your choice |
| 06:43.06 | ZaZaGX | whatever you like |
| 06:43.39 | linux_user | what if all I pick is "Debian Desktop Environment" and nothing else, will I have a GUI? |
| 06:43.51 | ZaZaGX | like if you have an old computer. its best with XFCE, or LXDE |
| 06:43.58 | linux_user | what if all I pick is "Debian Desktop Environment" and nothing else, will I have a GUI? |
| 06:43.59 | ZaZaGX | I just told you |
| 06:44.10 | ZaZaGX | you'll have a like Gnome DE but its not Gnome |
| 06:44.16 | linux_user | ok |
| 06:44.32 | ZaZaGX | but you'll just have a file manager and thats it |
| 06:44.36 | linux_user | It is one Debian has developed that is completely different from GNOME then? |
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| 06:45.28 | ZaZaGX | linux_user, just pick the best desktop choice for which applications you want to use that is preinstalled |
| 06:46.04 | linux_user | I am trying to understand what one of the choices is, that is what I am asking. |
| 06:46.15 | linux_user | I am trying to learn what "Debian Desktop Environment" means and gives you |
| 06:46.23 | linux_user | that is precisely what I am asking here. |
| 06:46.36 | jm_ | for crying out loud, apt-cache show task-desktop task-gnome-desktop |
| 06:46.41 | ZaZaGX | Most people would use GNOME and KDE. If you like the Windows tradational look, go with Cinnamon. if you are a old school Linux user who likes the old Gnome 2 look. pick MATE |
| 06:47.07 | linux_user | and if I just pick Debian Desktop Environment, what do I get with that? |
| 06:47.11 | enyc | linux_user: i think debian desktop enrinovment is just a basic set of depnedencies, to have funcitonal desktop you need one of the options below as wel |
| 06:47.24 | linux_user | oh |
| 06:47.33 | ZaZaGX | you just get a file manager, and maybe a notepad text |
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| 06:47.48 | ZaZaGX | i don't think it comes with a web browser and no libreoffice |
| 06:47.54 | enyc | linux_user: bear in mind you can run the "tasksel" program to re-open and this selection add more etc... |
| 06:48.12 | linux_user | I just want a minimum install |
| 06:48.20 | linux_user | if I can open a terminal I am fine |
| 06:48.23 | linux_user | the rest I do not need |
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| 06:49.40 | jm_ | then unmark debian desktop and install stuff you want by hand |
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| 06:50.19 | linux_user | I mean a GUI Terminal |
| 06:50.21 | linux_user | and that is it |
| 06:50.58 | themill | no, you get gnome if you pick "Desktop Environment" (unless you're using a different installer image) |
| 06:51.16 | linux_user | huh? |
| 06:51.34 | linux_user | so Debian Desktop Environment gives you GNOME? |
| 06:52.48 | ZaZaGX | linux_user, maybe you should just go use Ubuntu |
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| 06:53.02 | ZaZaGX | it gives you Gnome |
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| 06:53.19 | ZaZaGX | and they have an option to pick minimal install |
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| 06:53.21 | jm_ | none of the tasks gives you just a terminal AFAIR |
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| 06:54.32 | ZaZaGX | https://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=2018&image=bionic_minimal_0_med |
| 06:54.49 | ZaZaGX | see Minimal intall option |
| 06:54.54 | ZaZaGX | install* |
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| 06:58.42 | linux_user | I do not want Ubuntu |
| 06:58.55 | linux_user | I am trying to install Debian, sorry if I did not make that clear Zazagx |
| 06:59.05 | ZaZaGX | a lot of tech blogs says Debian install is more tailor to expert linux users. I found out its about 20 or so clicks to install Debian completely. Ubuntu can install as little as 4 clicks away |
| 06:59.38 | linux_user | I do not want Ubuntu, they are not really true to the same philosophy Debian is. |
| 06:59.47 | themill | This is #debian. People can hit enter 12 times to get Debian. |
| 06:59.57 | linux_user | I do not want Ubuntu |
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| 07:00.02 | linux_user | they are bad people that run that company |
| 07:00.13 | linux_user | Debian is far more in alignment with the FSF goals |
| 07:00.17 | linux_user | so I want to use Debian |
| 07:00.24 | enyc | linux_user: yes so you said |
| 07:00.35 | enyc | linux_user: so do it, expcet ot make mistakes ,ryetry ,learn, etc |
| 07:00.48 | enyc | linux_user: don't expect everything to be immediately-obvious and so on |
| 07:01.06 | linux_user | I have no problem with that, but I thought this would be a friendly forum where I could ask questions instead of being berated and told to use a different OS |
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| 07:01.29 | linux_user | I will know for the future this forum is not useful to new users. |
| 07:01.40 | themill | linux_user: that's not really what happened btw |
| 07:02.03 | themill | linux_user: I'm not sure what question you're actually asking though... |
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| 07:02.22 | cousin_luigi | Greetings. |
| 07:02.31 | ZaZaGX | luigi! |
| 07:02.39 | jm_ | even the person suggesting it said "maybe you should use", i.e. not "go use ..." |
| 07:03.00 | linux_user | my initial question was: |
| 07:03.01 | linux_user | Hello all. I am install Debian 10.2 via the Net Install ISO. At one point it gave me a menu of systems to choose to install, one was "GNOME Desktop" another was "Debian Desktop Environment", what is the Debian Desktop Environment, it is a replacement for GNOME or KDE? |
| 07:03.12 | cousin_luigi | has a ~4m gap during the boot that he cannot account for. |
| 07:03.41 | enyc | cousin_luigi: hewso??!? |
| 07:03.44 | themill | linux_user: I answered that already |
| 07:04.00 | themill | linux_user: [17:50] <themill> no, you get gnome if you pick "Desktop Environment" (unless you're using a different installer image) |
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| 07:04.42 | themill | ,recommends task-desktop |
| 07:04.43 | judd | Package task-desktop in buster/amd64 -- recommends: task-gnome-desktop | task-xfce-desktop | task-kde-desktop | task-lxde-desktop | task-cinnamon-desktop | task-mate-desktop | task-lxqt-desktop, xdg-utils, avahi-daemon, libnss-mdns, anacron, eject, iw, alsa-utils, libu2f-udev, sudo, firefox | firefox-esr. |
| 07:04.43 | linux_user | there is no option just "Desktop Environment", there is "Debian Desktop Environment", there is GNOME, there is KDE, there are others. |
| 07:05.01 | jm_ | systemd-analyze blame doesn't tell you where that 4min is spent in? |
| 07:05.03 | linux_user | the option you mentioned is not there! |
| 07:05.07 | linux_user | I just rebooted and looked |
| 07:06.01 | sa-ghosts | by Desktop environment he obviously meant debian desktop environment |
| 07:06.20 | cousin_luigi | enyc: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/2e473606/ what do you think? |
| 07:07.01 | cousin_luigi | Is it waiting for IPv6? |
| 07:07.30 | linux_user | that is not obvious to me |
| 07:07.35 | linux_user | I am trying to understand the menu |
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| 07:09.05 | themill | I sort of hoped that "Desktop Environment" in the context of installing "Debian" might be reasonably understood as "Debian Desktop Environment". But hey. You can always ask for clarification rather than ignoring me and then complaining you didn't get an answer. |
| 07:09.33 | enyc | cousin_luigi: no, the ipv6 autoconf strated because link ready is normal kernel level thing |
| 07:09.51 | cousin_luigi | enyc: Should I increase the loglevel or something? |
| 07:10.08 | cousin_luigi | it's 210 seconds... |
| 07:11.31 | enyc | cousin_luigi: cousin_luigi: crng issues looks more likely but not sure |
| 07:11.48 | enyc | cousin_luigi: NOT same distro but seems to be similar bug https://forum.manjaro.org/t/boot-delay-random-crng-init-done/47182 |
| 07:11.52 | cousin_luigi | enyc: I've just upgraded from oldoldstable |
| 07:12.03 | cousin_luigi | The problem wasn't present on oldstable |
| 07:12.07 | jm_ | old CPU without rdrandr? |
| 07:12.47 | cousin_luigi | it's a SBC with an AMD T40 |
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| 07:13.49 | cousin_luigi | jm_: How do I check it? |
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| 07:15.26 | jm_ | cousin_luigi: grep rdrand /proc/cpuinfo |
| 07:15.38 | cousin_luigi | jm_: no output |
| 07:15.46 | cousin_luigi | should I try installing and enabling haveged? |
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| 07:16.09 | jm_ | worth a try (rng-*tools* would not help) |
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| 07:17.26 | ficklepickle | linux_user: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/445829/debian-desktop-environment-in-installer |
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| 07:18.07 | linux_user | ficklepickle: let me read that. |
| 07:18.49 | ficklepickle | should answer your questions. long story short, debian desktop environment installs the default desktop environment for your arch. Which happens to be gnome for x86/amd64/whatever u wanna call it. |
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| 07:22.27 | cousin_luigi | jm_: no change |
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| 07:23.04 | cousin_luigi | jm_: But then, haveged starts after that. |
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| 07:24.38 | jm_ | cousin_luigi: yeah I just checked and it starts way after that, maybe search for "crng init done" taking a long time, I remember reading about systemd and boot delays, but I don't know if it was exactly the same thing (it was related to randomness) |
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| 07:32.13 | cousin_luigi | jm_: Many with the same problem, but not solution. Will try and ask coreboot people if updating the firmware might help. |
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| 07:32.44 | erikTr | hello all :) |
| 07:33.13 | imba | <PROTECTED> |
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| 07:33.38 | erikTr | can yo help me mx-linux software? I need bussnies card maker sofware. |
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| 07:34.19 | petn-randall | !mxlinux |
| 07:34.20 | dpkg | MX-18 Linux is based on Debian stretch; MX-19 is based on Debian buster. However, MX Linux is not supported in #debian. Seek help at https://mxlinux.org/. |
| 07:34.34 | petn-randall | erikTr: You can find their support info on the website above. ^^^ |
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| 07:35.24 | erikTr | ok, thanks |
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| 07:36.34 | petn-randall | imba: Can you paste the lines (command + complete output, and the output of `echo $CPATH`) to https://paste.debian.net? |
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| 07:42.26 | imba | petn-randall: output is nothing (empty) |
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| 07:51.00 | imba | petn-randall: output is empty if run it from non-root user with sudo. https://paste.debian.net/1125799/ |
| 07:51.29 | jm_ | you need to run that in the same shell where you wanted to build it |
| 07:51.42 | jm_ | (if you have messed with CPATH at all) |
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| 07:55.39 | strongestAvenger | Hi all, since Homeland Sec emphasised on the firefox update, I'm looking into my current version, I'm running 71.0, however 72.0.1 is available on firefox.com. Just ran a full-update, but firefox isn't updated. My apt cache is engulfed in 71.0.2 packages, so how should I go about this? |
| 07:56.22 | jm_ | you have the option of using whichever version debian provides, or use upstream version in various incarnations |
| 07:56.49 | onpora | hello, I have tried so many things to make it work but after upgrading to debian buster the boot hangs at 'Started Gnome Display Manager' |
| 07:56.51 | jm_ | debian provides esr versions onlyAFAIK |
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| 07:57.04 | onpora | I installed xdm, slim, lightdm, all the same. I added entries to grub linux line, installed non-free firmware, no avail |
| 07:57.23 | jm_ | onpora: tried switching to using X server instead of wayland? |
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| 07:57.50 | strongestAvenger | thanks @jm_ but esr provides 68.4 according to debian.org? |
| 07:58.01 | onpora | jm_ I uncommented 'WaylandEnable=False', is that sufficient? |
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| 07:58.55 | onpora | in daemon.conf |
| 07:59.38 | onpora | kk |
| 07:59.44 | onpora | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:00.49 | imba | jm_ i my non-root user is already in sudo group, but https://paste.debian.net/1125802/ |
| 08:01.28 | jm_ | onpora: yeah sounds OK |
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| 08:02.18 | jm_ | strongestAvenger: yeah right now it's 68.x |
| 08:02.43 | jm_ | imba: export is a shell built-in, you can't run it that way |
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| 08:03.22 | imba | jm_ please, give me example |
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| 08:04.09 | jm_ | imba: you need to export it in the shell which you'll use for building, I owuldn't use root user to build things - build it as user, and then only install it as root |
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| 08:05.11 | imba | jm_ ok, will try |
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| 08:09.09 | onpora | and it is certain that the hardware has no compatibility issue. I tested it by upgrading another originally stretch-installed buster-upgraded disk. there is no issue whatsoever with booting. |
| 08:09.32 | onpora | by running* |
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| 08:09.40 | jm_ | onpora: then try to connect to the problematic system from another one and inspect stuff |
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| 08:10.28 | onpora | jm_ I did already. but I dont know how to make sense of endless lines of logs |
| 08:10.43 | jm_ | onpora: surely they are not endless :) |
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| 08:11.55 | jm_ | onpora: I would check whichever DM you are using and then its logs, have you also installed something else along the DM? |
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| 08:12.31 | jm_ | ahh it's upgrade, so something was installed from before, maybe try if you can start a sessiin with just xterm |
| 08:12.34 | onpora | jm_ I ran the upgrade and installed nothing else by myself. it's been like this since |
| 08:12.34 | jm_ | session* |
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| 08:13.34 | jm_ | onpora: so yeah I would check *dm log and session log if it exists |
| 08:13.59 | od_in | whats upwhats up? |
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| 08:15.37 | petn-randall | imba: As jm_ said, don't use root for building. You also didn't show the build error. |
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| 08:19.21 | onpora | there is no error mention in Xorg.0.log |
| 08:20.10 | onpora | and syslog has 70K lines. still not endless :) |
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| 08:28.59 | onpora | typical cycle: tell the problem-answer 1-2 questions-get advice the check logs-silence |
| 08:30.45 | tangarora_ | Debian in staller is stoping and asking me where to install the boot loader... why? It should just do it. Here is the preseed: https://github.com/vonschutter/Blind_Install/raw/master/custom/preseed.debian.template |
| 08:31.40 | tangarora_ | The same instructions with different mirror work fine with the ubuntu mini iso witch uses the debian installer... |
| 08:31.46 | jm_ | surely you can't expect that everyone will pay 100% attention to you? I also have work to do in between |
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| 08:32.11 | onpora | oh yes |
| 08:32.16 | onpora | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:32.49 | onpora | you -meaning not yourself- understand nothing |
| 08:33.11 | jelly | strongestAvenger: it's 68.4.1esr, and that's up to date |
| 08:33.20 | jelly | ,v firefox-esr |
| 08:33.21 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch: 60.7.1esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 60.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.2.0esr-1~deb10u1; jessie-security: 68.4.0esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-security: 68.4.1esr-1~deb9u1; buster-proposed-updates: 68.4.1esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 68.4.1esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 68.4.1esr-1; |
| 08:33.22 | judd | sid: 68.4.1esr-1 |
| 08:33.34 | petn-randall | onpora: Please respect that we're all volunteers in here, dedicating our free time to help others. That also may mean that we're gone from the keyboard for a while. |
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| 08:33.54 | onpora | petn-randall, this is not about 'for a while' |
| 08:34.22 | onpora | if everyone is busy every time, then it seems debian has a problem running the irc channel |
| 08:34.31 | petn-randall | onpora: Having an attitude of expecting a resolution within a timeframe is something you can have if you actually pay someone to look at your problems. |
| 08:34.41 | tangarora_ | is anyone a preseed expert? |
| 08:35.03 | onpora | or if one gets attention but then the discussion hangs in the air after 1-2 questions then it is a waste of time for both parties |
| 08:35.17 | onpora | this is not conversation |
| 08:35.28 | petn-randall | onpora: Well, you don't know that from either side unless you get there. |
| 08:35.30 | onpora | moreover, it used to be not like this |
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| 08:36.13 | onpora | agreed, we have more search possibilities and more resources than before, but there are places that things come to dead end by own efforts |
| 08:36.40 | onpora | I dont even mention linux channel |
| 08:36.55 | tangarora_ | Well there are more people using linux than before... so you get more regular people conditioned in the consumer/customer vs vendor social structure... that structure does not apply here. |
| 08:37.13 | onpora | what? |
| 08:37.48 | onpora | cant relate your argument to the topic |
| 08:37.52 | strongestAvenger | @jelly yes, I know, but we need 72 :) (to be secure) |
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| 08:38.00 | tangarora_ | Meaning people come with demands as if they has bought something... |
| 08:38.04 | jelly | strongestAvenger: secure against what? |
| 08:38.13 | onpora | (btw, how interesting people gathered around suddenly) |
| 08:38.24 | onpora | no |
| 08:38.33 | onpora | that is your faulty thinking |
| 08:38.41 | onpora | and that's why I said you understood nothinhg |
| 08:38.43 | onpora | nothing |
| 08:39.04 | jelly | strongestAvenger: which specific issue is fixed in 72.0.1 that is not fixed in 68.4.1esr? |
| 08:39.07 | onpora | you think people demand something from you |
| 08:39.07 | Fox | strongestAvenger: 68.4.1esr is up to date with advisory 2020-03 |
| 08:39.13 | tangarora_ | it's all lies, damn lies i tell you! :) |
| 08:39.15 | Fox | https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/mfsa2020-03/ |
| 08:39.24 | onpora | and by thinking that, you yourself is first conditioned in the vendor-customer relationshi |
| 08:39.25 | onpora | p |
| 08:39.39 | jelly | onpora: I understand you're frustrated, but ranting about level of free, volunteer support just adds noise to a topical support channel, and this is a topical tech support channel. |
| 08:39.46 | onpora | ah |
| 08:39.48 | onpora | no |
| 08:39.52 | *** mode/#debian [+o jelly] by ChanServ |
| 08:40.00 | strongestAvenger | oooh @jelly and @Fox thanks, I see what you mean |
| 08:40.01 | tangarora_ | whatabout civility and good behavior? |
| 08:40.03 | onpora | oh you'll silence me? |
| 08:40.15 | onpora | what? |
| 08:40.16 | jelly | onpora: keep this channel for tech questions. You can move this to #debian-offtopic. |
| 08:40.19 | onpora | civility? |
| 08:40.30 | onpora | good behaviour? |
| 08:40.41 | onpora | what is there in my talk that is against these? |
| 08:40.58 | onpora | is that the way you receive criticism? |
| 08:41.01 | jelly | onpora: it's in the wrong place. You have one warning. |
| 08:41.26 | tangarora_ | So on to tech talk now? |
| 08:41.47 | onpora | that was why I came here in the first place. |
| 08:42.30 | onpora | but your reception of criticism tells enough |
| 08:42.34 | tangarora_ | OK so... tech q: installing with preseed... Debian installer is stoping and asking me where to install the boot loader... why? It should just do it. Here is the preseed: https://github.com/vonschutter/Blind_Install/raw/master/custom/preseed.debian.template |
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| 08:42.57 | tangarora_ | Am I missing a statement speciffic to debian? |
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| 08:43.24 | tangarora_ | d-i install where it makes sense? |
| 08:43.26 | tangarora_ | :) |
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| 08:43.49 | jelly | tangarora_: you need to _tell it_ where |
| 08:43.55 | jelly | d-i grub-installer/bootdev string /dev/sda |
| 08:44.02 | jm_ | having never tried preseeding, this looks like lines that you need to set: #BOOTDEV=... #debconf-set grub-installer/bootdev $BOOTDEV |
| 08:44.15 | jm_ | or obviously set it all in one go |
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| 08:44.57 | tangarora_ | jelly: the target will be different often though vda sda hda... depending on if its installing in a vm or in ne/old machine |
| 08:45.34 | tangarora_ | $BOOTDEV? |
| 08:45.41 | jelly | tangarora_: then you need to figure that out, and still tell it |
| 08:45.45 | onpora | the notion that you conceive as vendor-customer mentality is identical to you-didnt-pay-for-this-so-dont-expect-to-get-answered...then why are there a host of people here? |
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| 08:46.24 | Fox | onpora: don't expect to be answered *fast*, yes for sure |
| 08:46.31 | tangarora_ | is $BOOTDEV a variable that debian installer reads? |
| 08:46.43 | jelly | onpora: I asked to move this particular chain of though to #debian-offtopic. You have one hour cooldown. |
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| 08:46.46 | jm_ | tangarora_: no, see the $() command used to set it |
| 08:46.58 | jm_ | I was gonna guide them through at least trying if X with xterm starts, but not now ... |
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| 08:49.16 | jelly | tangarora_: dunno. Our VMs are predictable and always have a single small disk just for /boot and grub and they're always /dev/sda |
| 08:49.57 | jelly | you can use an early_command to figure things out I suppose? |
| 08:50.01 | delYsid | Are there plans to sign kernels for buster-backports, or do I need to ditch SB to get something newer then 4.19? |
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| 08:58.03 | lifebook | hi all! |
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| 09:04.02 | lifebook | according to udd, there are around 200 rc bugs in stretch |
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| 09:04.59 | lifebook | however, the debian rc bugs web page prints 27 rc bugs for oldstable |
| 09:05.14 | lifebook | how could that be? |
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| 09:06.44 | lifebook | where should one file a bug or send a mail? |
| 09:07.28 | petn-randall | lifebook: Can you show us both links? |
| 09:07.42 | tangarora_ | OK tried to make a $BOOTDEV variable... maybe I have missing skills? |
| 09:07.45 | han-solo | i wish, `python3-pip` and `python3-venv` comes with python, they are very basic packages, maybe don't want to bloat the preinstall ? |
| 09:08.00 | tangarora_ | What does error code -2 mean in deb installer? |
| 09:08.03 | tangarora_ | d-i partman/early_command string \ |
| 09:08.03 | tangarora_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:08.04 | tangarora_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:08.04 | tangarora_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:08.04 | tangarora_ | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:08.18 | lifebook | petn-randall: i will try :) |
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| 09:08.51 | petn-randall | han-solo: If you need them you can install them. I don't need either, so I don't want them installed by default. |
| 09:08.57 | tangarora_ | sorry... 4 lines = flooding... |
| 09:09.11 | lifebook | 27 : https://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ |
| 09:09.21 | petn-randall | tangarora_: It says so in the /topic ... |
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| 09:10.18 | tangarora_ | d-i partman/early_command string \ USBDEV=\$(mount | grep hd-media | cut -d" " -f1 | sed "s/\(.*\)./\1/");\ BOOTDEV=\$(list-devices disk | grep -v \$USBDEV | head -1);\ debconf-set partman-auto/disk \$BOOTDEV;\ debconf-set grub-installer/bootdev \$BOOTDEV; |
| 09:10.27 | tangarora_ | there... one line... :O |
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| 09:10.48 | Freekid | hi |
| 09:10.48 | Haohmaru | Q: the stuff you can do with "xinput set-prop" is applied immediately and temporary, right? |
| 09:11.07 | tangarora_ | anyway error code -2 |
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| 09:11.16 | Freekid | I am going to install debian minimal. If the grub doesnt work what to do? |
| 09:11.19 | petn-randall | tangarora_: Or read the /topic and then provide a paste. |
| 09:11.34 | petn-randall | Freekid: What does "doesn't work" mean in this case? |
| 09:11.49 | jm_ | Freekid: you can use debian installer's rescue mode to fix things |
| 09:11.55 | petn-randall | Oh, you're asking for a hypothetical. |
| 09:12.05 | Freekid | Ok I shall update later |
| 09:12.06 | lifebook | 194 : https://udd.debian.org/bugs/?release=stretch&merged=ign&rc=1&flastmod=ign&flastmodval=5&sortby=last_modified&sorto=asc&chints=1&ctags=1&cdeferred=1&crttags=1&cautormtime=1&cmissingbuilds=1&caffected=1&cpopcon=1&cbritney=1& |
| 09:12.07 | petn-randall | What jm_ said. |
| 09:12.22 | Freekid | There is ubuntu already installed I want to trump it |
| 09:12.35 | Freekid | Thats why I am eorried |
| 09:12.38 | Freekid | * |
| 09:12.41 | Freekid | w |
| 09:12.42 | tangarora_ | petn-randall: I just printed in on one line so is posted correclty and I did not get kicked... thanks fo rthe input. If I have more longer lines I ll privide a URL. |
| 09:13.14 | jm_ | tangarora_: have you checked tty3 and 4 for more clues? |
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| 09:13.36 | tangarora_ | jm_: oooh! good idea! :) |
| 09:13.39 | tangarora_ | just a sec. |
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| 09:17.18 | petn-randall | lifebook: I'm guessing that the first link also removes the bugs marked as "stretch-ignore", and might also check if the version in stretch is affected and remove those, too. |
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| 09:18.44 | tangarora_ | it says syntax error unexpected "("? |
| 09:18.53 | tangarora_ | whats wrong with this: |
| 09:18.57 | tangarora_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:18.58 | tangarora_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:19.32 | tangarora_ | inder d-i partman/early_command string \ ofcourse |
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| 09:20.12 | petn-randall | tangarora_: On which line do you get the error? |
| 09:20.40 | tangarora_ | It does not say, both are listed prior... |
| 09:20.49 | tangarora_ | in the tty that is |
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| 09:22.31 | tangarora_ | is there any difference if i have "d-i partman/early_command string" infront of each of them or above with a "\"? |
| 09:23.14 | lifebook | 192 : https://udd.debian.org/bugs/?release=stretch&confirmed=&patch=&pending=&security=&wontfix=&moreinfo=&upstream=&unreproducible=&help=&d-i=&forwarded=&claimed=&deferred=¬main=¬jessie=¬stretch=ign¬buster=¬bullseye=&base=&standard=&orphaned=&merged=ign&done=&outdatedjessie=&outdatedstretch=ign&outdatedbuster=&outdatedbullseye=&outdatedsid=&needmig=&newerubuntu=&rtjessie-ignore=&rtjessie-will-remove=&rtjessie-can-defer=&r |
| 09:23.14 | lifebook | tjessie-is-blocker=&rtjessie-no-auto-remove=&rtjessie-pu=&rtstretch-ignore=ign&rtstretch-will-remove=ign&rtstretch-can-defer=&rtstretch-is-blocker=&rtstretch-no-auto-remove=&rtstretch-pu=&rtbuster-ignore=&rtbuster-will-remove=&rtbuster-can-defer=&rtbuster-is-blocker=&rtbuster-no-auto-remove=&rtbuster-pu=&rtbullseye-ignore=&rtbullseye-will-remove=&rtbullseye-can-defer=&rtbullseye-is-blocker=&rtbullseye-no-auto-remove=&rtbullseye-pu=&unblo |
| 09:23.14 | lifebook | ck-hint=&keypackages=&pseudopackages=&autoremovals=&closedinftpnew=&fnewer=&fnewerval=7&flastmod=ign&flastmodval=5&rc=1&email1=&email2=&email3=&packages=&ignpackages=&cpopcon=1&chints=1&ctags=1&cdeferred=1&caffected=1&cmissingbuilds=1&crttags=1&cautormtime=1&cbritney=1&sortby=last_modified&sorto=asc&format=html#results |
| 09:23.20 | han-solo | petn-randall: yeah, the thing is there's a `venv` module in python stdlib, `python -m venv <env-dir>` we can create a a virtualenv, and it requires the `python3-venv` package for it to work and it is pretty common way, and some new users trip on that ( i know i did :) ) |
| 09:23.24 | han-solo | anyway |
| 09:25.18 | petn-randall | lifebook: Your link is truncated due to length. |
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| 09:25.34 | tangarora_ | for reference: Here is the preseed: https://github.com/vonschutter/Blind_Install/raw/master/custom/preseed.debian.template |
| 09:25.53 | lifebook | petn-randall: oh ok :( |
| 09:25.57 | Freekid | ok so now I am at the "partion disks" manu I had ubuntu installed so it is already partitioned do I need to do anything else? |
| 09:26.21 | Freekid | or I can select the system partition and go? |
| 09:26.55 | tangarora_ | Freekid; if you are ok with wiping the system select system and go. |
| 09:27.02 | han-solo | maybe because it is not a seperate package in centos and friends, and people are used to that *shrugs* |
| 09:27.04 | Freekid | Thanks |
| 09:27.18 | jm_ | tangarora_: it depends if it supports listing it multiple times or not, it's not very specific about it |
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| 09:27.57 | tangarora_ | jm_: maybe i need to escape the $ twice? |
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| 09:28.42 | tangarora_ | var=$(command) is valid in /bin/sh is it not? |
| 09:29.07 | jm_ | tangarora_: I am also confused by that, sometimes they say \$(), sometimes just $() :) |
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| 09:29.55 | Haohmaru | Q: the stuff you can do with "xinput set-prop" is applied immediately and temporary, right? what would be a simple yet elegant way to make these applied automatically? can it be done with a .conf in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ ? |
| 09:29.59 | han-solo | `var=$(command)` seems to be working in sh |
| 09:30.04 | tangarora_ | jm_: ok -- ill try no escaping at all and see.. |
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| 09:31.20 | Freekid | It says "No root file system is defined" !! |
| 09:31.21 | nlpqda | I've installed via "snap install woe-usb", I can see it with "snap list" but it's not running using terimal "woe-usb" |
| 09:31.27 | nlpqda | any ideas? |
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| 09:32.05 | Freekid | Cant turn the bootable flag on! |
| 09:32.19 | Freekid | on the previous system partition |
| 09:32.24 | jm_ | Haohmaru: looks like some options can be set via xorg.conf at least |
| 09:33.03 | lifebook | 192 : https://udd.debian.org/bugs/?release=stretch¬stretch=ign&merged=ign&outdatedstretch=ign&rtstretch-ignore=ign&rtstretch-will-remove=ign&fnewerval=7&flastmod=ign&flastmodval=5&rc=1&cpopcon=1&chints=1&ctags=1&cdeferred=1&caffected=1&cmissingbuilds=1&crttags=1&cautormtime=1&cbritney=1&sortby=last_modified&sorto=asc&format=html#results |
| 09:33.29 | lifebook | petn-randall: is that better? |
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| 09:35.38 | Freekid | Hi hat should be the Label? none? or something else? |
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| 09:36.11 | Fox | Haohmaru: you could put it in your .profile too |
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| 09:36.43 | Haohmaru | jm_ so that's a "yes" ? |
| 09:37.01 | Haohmaru | i'm interested in calibration matrix |
| 09:38.01 | lifebook | petn-randall: any idea where is the code that makes the rc bugs web page? |
| 09:38.12 | Freekid | Hi do I need a ESP partition? |
| 09:38.22 | Freekid | Someone help me :/ |
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| 09:38.35 | Freekid | Sorry I meant guide me |
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| 09:38.50 | ratrace | Freekid: yes if you wanna boot via EFI |
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| 09:39.18 | Freekid | What is EFI I just want to boot normally |
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| 09:41.16 | ratrace | Freekid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface -- all modern computers have that. Some no longer have BIOS (legacy) boot capabilities. |
| 09:41.47 | ratrace | so depending on what you computer does/wants, you may or may not need it. whether you _want_ it and not need it is separate issue. |
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| 09:42.05 | Freekid | So I think I need that but problem is, I cant turn the bootable flag on of the system partition |
| 09:42.06 | ratrace | personally I just do BIOS (legacy) until I get a machine that can no longer do that and requires EFI |
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| 09:42.45 | Freekid | I press enter bu it is still showing Bootable: OFF |
| 09:42.48 | jm_ | Haohmaru: I have no idea what calibration matrix is |
| 09:42.56 | Freekid | This is the partition where ubuntu was installed |
| 09:42.58 | Freekid | before |
| 09:43.07 | ratrace | Freekid: also this: https://wiki.debian.org/UEFI |
| 09:43.20 | Haohmaru | jm_ for a nasty rubrub (touchscreen) |
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| 09:45.26 | tangarora_ | jm_: ok that worked... no more escaping $! :) |
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| 09:45.54 | ratrace | Freekid: how are you setting the flag? actually the flag is "esp" but some programs will alias "boot" flag to that |
| 09:46.33 | Freekid | I thought hitting enter would change it to on |
| 09:46.54 | ratrace | Freekid: hitting enter where |
| 09:47.03 | Freekid | on that option |
| 09:47.09 | ratrace | what are you talking about |
| 09:47.13 | jm_ | Haohmaru: have you checked which X driver is used for it? |
| 09:47.22 | Haohmaru | libinput |
| 09:47.36 | Freekid | I am at the "Partition disks" option ratrace |
| 09:47.59 | ratrace | Freekid: in debian installer? |
| 09:48.03 | Freekid | yes |
| 09:48.07 | jm_ | so yeah looks like you can do it via xorg.conf according to man 4 libinput |
| 09:48.42 | Freekid | I am figuring how to config the root partition |
| 09:48.53 | Freekid | @ratrace* |
| 09:48.54 | ratrace | Freekid: iirc the installer does that automatically, so I'm not sure what option you need to turn specifically on |
| 09:49.07 | Freekid | ok let me try that first |
| 09:49.23 | Freekid | Do I need to set any mount option? |
| 09:49.34 | Haohmaru | jm_ i guess i meant "transformation matrix" ;P~ |
| 09:49.39 | Freekid | it says : Defaults |
| 09:49.51 | jm_ | Freekid: just go with defaults to start with |
| 09:49.56 | Freekid | ok |
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| 09:50.09 | Freekid | & Bootable flag : Off |
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| 09:50.15 | Freekid | It wont change |
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| 09:50.26 | jm_ | Haohmaru: it doesn't list that one |
| 09:50.56 | Haohmaru | bluh |
| 09:50.58 | Freekid | mount point : / |
| 09:51.02 | Freekid | right? |
| 09:51.10 | Freekid | just "/" |
| 09:51.31 | jm_ | Haohmaru: but to me it would be strange if xinpout allows it but xorg.conf not |
| 09:51.34 | ratrace | Freekid: Under "use as" choose "don't use", then on next screen (filesystems) choose "EFI boot" |
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| 09:51.58 | ratrace | Freekid: no, ESP is a completely separate fat32 thingy, you can't have / on it |
| 09:52.21 | Freekid | not est now I am working on root partition |
| 09:52.34 | Freekid | use as: ext4 |
| 09:52.38 | Freekid | format: yes |
| 09:52.44 | Freekid | mount point: / |
| 09:52.53 | Freekid | rest all defaults |
| 09:52.59 | Freekid | bootable flag : off |
| 09:53.02 | lifebook | petn-randall: anyway, thank you |
| 09:53.17 | *** part/#debian lifebook (~lifebook@37.175.48.70) |
| 09:53.21 | ratrace | !tell Freekid about enter |
| 09:53.44 | Freekid | oh ok sorry |
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| 09:53.58 | ratrace | that sounds sane, for the root (/) partition, yea. |
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| 09:55.34 | Freekid | No installing the base system :) |
| 09:55.51 | Freekid | Lets hope the bootloader works |
| 09:56.22 | Freekid | no = now* |
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| 10:00.24 | Freekid | Can I change the debian mirror later? |
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| 10:01.06 | ratrace | Freekid: yeah you can alter /etc/apt/sources.list(.d) later |
| 10:01.14 | Freekid | cool |
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| 10:04.46 | Freekid | So I will be running it as a server, so I just ill be installing standard system utilities |
| 10:05.13 | Freekid | and SSH server |
| 10:05.29 | ratrace | sounds good for a start |
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| 10:11.17 | Freekid | wow I have successfully Installed debian 10 and logged in |
| 10:11.27 | Freekid | Thank you guys for you help :) |
| 10:11.30 | Freekid | You are great |
| 10:11.41 | Freekid | ratrace <3 |
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| 10:19.08 | Freekid | what is the ls command for debian!! |
| 10:19.11 | Freekid | LS |
| 10:19.49 | Miles8of9 | ?_? |
| 10:20.48 | Freekid | I mean what is vmlinuz.old |
| 10:21.03 | Freekid | and initrd.img.old |
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| 10:25.00 | Freekid | There is nothing in my home directory! where did all my files go! |
| 10:25.15 | Freekid | Which I didnt format |
| 10:25.37 | ratrace | Freekid: you mounted it from the previous installation? |
| 10:25.44 | Freekid | yes |
| 10:25.48 | ratrace | which was ubuntu? |
| 10:25.51 | Freekid | yes |
| 10:26.13 | Freekid | did it not mount or someting? |
| 10:26.26 | ratrace | well, for starters, that's not advised, due to different software versions and high possibility of breaking software with configs in ~/.config and similar |
| 10:26.44 | ratrace | so you better just copy your data over. second, check that the partition is actually mounted |
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| 10:27.49 | Freekid | if it is mounted it will sho /dev/sda1 or sda2 like this right? |
| 10:28.08 | Freekid | Its is showing all the partitions yes |
| 10:29.05 | ratrace | Freekid: check with mount | grep home |
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| 10:29.57 | Freekid | it shows nothing |
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| 10:30.51 | ratrace | Freekid: then it is not mounted. |
| 10:31.16 | Freekid | So I did a mistake when I was installing the os lol |
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| 10:31.28 | ratrace | Freekid: uh.... which partitioning scheme did you choose in the installer? |
| 10:31.43 | Freekid | The one that was before |
| 10:31.53 | Freekid | I didnt touch the home partition |
| 10:31.54 | ratrace | Freekid: I mean, "Guided" or "Manual" |
| 10:31.58 | Freekid | manual |
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| 10:32.34 | ratrace | and you made sure not to format the partition containing your old ~/ ? |
| 10:32.40 | Freekid | yes |
| 10:32.49 | Freekid | Only F the swap and root |
| 10:32.54 | ratrace | which label was it? /dev/sdaX ? what's X? |
| 10:33.08 | Freekid | . /dev/sda3 |
| 10:33.31 | ratrace | k, try this as root: mkdir /mnt/oldhome ; mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/oldhome |
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| 10:34.24 | Freekid | nothing LS shows nothing |
| 10:34.35 | Freekid | in home |
| 10:34.37 | ratrace | `ls -l /mnt/oldhome` shows nothing? |
| 10:35.06 | ratrace | like it only says "total 0" ? |
| 10:35.10 | Freekid | It shows my previous home |
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| 10:35.23 | Freekid | and lost+found |
| 10:35.35 | ratrace | can you pastebin what ls -l /mnt/oldhome outputs exactly |
| 10:35.36 | Freekid | yes it does show it |
| 10:35.41 | Freekid | ok |
| 10:37.14 | Freekid | here https://pastebin.com/kWBxb0x0 |
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| 10:37.38 | ratrace | alrighty. Now, do you have root password enabled? |
| 10:37.42 | Freekid | yes |
| 10:37.49 | ratrace | are you in the console or in a GUI? |
| 10:37.57 | Freekid | putty |
| 10:38.09 | ratrace | logged in as root? |
| 10:38.12 | Freekid | yes |
| 10:38.13 | nyov | is there an apt command like `dpkg --get-selections` that will save and restore manual/auto package states as well? |
| 10:38.37 | ratrace | Freekid: excellent. do this: umount /mnt/oldhome ; mount /dev/sda3 /home |
| 10:38.58 | Freekid | I do it all atonce? "umount /mnt/oldhome ; mount /dev/sda3 /home" |
| 10:39.08 | ratrace | Freekid: as you wish |
| 10:39.16 | Freekid | okay |
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| 10:39.27 | Freekid | done |
| 10:39.53 | Freekid | One thing I am using the same username that I was using before |
| 10:39.56 | ratrace | Freekid: that mounts the home dir. now check that user study has that for its home: grep study /etc/passwd and see that the last field (laste before last : ) is /home/study |
| 10:40.27 | ratrace | Freekid: yes I see that, which is why I wanna check that it's all synced up so you can log in as that user, remotely, with no issues. that's why I asked if you have root pass, in case you bork "study" |
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| 10:41.11 | ratrace | Freekid: now check that there's a fstab entry for /home: grep home /etc/fstab and if that gives output, please pastebin it, or paste here if it's one line |
| 10:41.23 | Freekid | study:x:1000:1000:study,,,:/home/study:/bin/bash |
| 10:41.28 | Freekid | output ^ |
| 10:41.33 | ratrace | k, that's settled |
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| 10:42.59 | Freekid | wow cool its now showing all the previous files :D |
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| 10:43.15 | ratrace | Freekid: yeah but you're not done yet, check fstab |
| 10:43.55 | Freekid | grep home /etc/fstab <= this command shows no output |
| 10:44.20 | ratrace | Freekid: right, so you'll have to add it. Something like this, on its own line, in /etc/fstab: |
| 10:44.37 | Freekid | ok |
| 10:44.46 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:45.00 | ratrace | after you add that, test it: |
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| 10:45.40 | ratrace | umount /home ; mount /home and these two must execute with no error given, after which you should have /home/study and all its files under it |
| 10:46.19 | Freekid | yes |
| 10:46.25 | ratrace | if you reboot, it should all be there as exepcted. again WARNING: ubuntu and debian use different software versions, so any program configs under ~/.config and similar might not work properly. but if that's server, there probably aren't any, usually GUI progs put stuff there |
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| 10:47.34 | b1ack0p | how can i see gpu capacity? |
| 10:47.40 | b1ack0p | 1gb 2 gb ? |
| 10:47.59 | petn-randall | b1ack0p: Look at the spec sheet of the device? |
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| 10:48.18 | b1ack0p | cant i see on terminal? |
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| 10:50.30 | towo^work | b1ack0p, cat /sys/class/drm/card0/device/mem_info_vram_total if you don't use blob drivers |
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| 10:52.03 | b1ack0p | towo^work: cat: /sys/class/drm/card0/device/mem_info_vram_total: No such file or directory |
| 10:52.22 | towo^work | b1ack0p, and we all know your graphics card? |
| 10:52.31 | Freekid | It is working as it should after reboot. I guess it means I have successfully mounted the partition to home |
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| 10:52.37 | Freekid | thank you again :) |
| 10:52.45 | Freekid | you are awesome |
| 10:53.43 | ratrace | Freekid: yep, you're good to go. |
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| 11:26.24 | Haohmaru | is there some way to copy the first line of text from a text file into clipboard |
| 11:26.53 | jm_ | yes |
| 11:27.03 | Haohmaru | i mean an easy way |
| 11:27.06 | Haohmaru | ;P~ |
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| 11:27.17 | Haohmaru | don't look at me thru your h4x0r eyez |
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| 11:27.50 | Haohmaru | (i ain't got a mouse) |
| 11:28.04 | Haohmaru | (and i can't use ssh for this) |
| 11:28.16 | jm_ | head is easy to get first line (there are many other ways), to put it to clipboard you can use a tool like xsel or also others |
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| 11:31.18 | jm_ | xsel is some old stuff, something like xclip is probably a better fit |
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| 11:31.58 | jm_ | head -1 ... | xclip -i |
| 11:32.22 | jm_ | (it also supports -selection) |
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| 11:33.46 | Haohmaru | oh i'm so dumb, i could launch mousepad or something |
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| 11:36.17 | ratrace | but launching mousepad ain't h4x0r. xsel/xclip is :) |
| 11:37.27 | Haohmaru | well i'm not a h4x0r |
| 11:37.46 | ratrace | you would've been if you used xclip |
| 11:37.52 | Haohmaru | no |
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| 11:38.00 | Haohmaru | i got too much stuff on muh head already |
| 11:38.49 | hello23786a | hi |
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| 12:34.45 | jim | hi... what terminal setup (especially colors) is recommended for weechat? |
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| 13:17.31 | colo-work | ,v binutils |
| 13:17.32 | judd | Package: binutils on amd64 -- jessie: 2.25-5+deb8u1; stretch: 2.28-5; buster: 2.31.1-16; bullseye: 2.33.1-6; sid: 2.33.50.20200111-1 |
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| 13:56.35 | Haohmaru | where can i see the x y coordinates of this nasty touchscreen, before the damn transformation matrix is applied?! |
| 13:56.38 | Haohmaru | >:( |
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| 15:17.29 | tharkun | I need to swap the escape key and the caps lock key on a machine that does not a GUI. I only found this url on the internet. https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/266817/how-to-reverse-esc-and-caps-lock-on-tty is there a more debian style solution? |
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| 15:21.41 | petn-randall | tharkun: Sounds pretty Debian to me. |
| 15:21.54 | Haohmaru | is there like a web version of "man <something something>" ? |
| 15:22.45 | petn-randall | Haohmaru: I'm sure google will help, but then you'll end up with the man page of some version of <something something>. |
| 15:23.11 | petn-randall | Haohmaru: So I recommend using `man <something something>` as it's the man page to the version you have installed. |
| 15:23.22 | Haohmaru | :/ |
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| 15:24.31 | nevivurn | Haohmaru: https://manpages.debian.org/ |
| 15:24.59 | nevivurn | But I also agree to above, getting used to the manpages on your system will help you learn faster. |
| 15:25.26 | Haohmaru | x_x |
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| 15:28.40 | annadane | there's also 'info' for certain GNU softwar |
| 15:28.41 | annadane | e |
| 15:29.10 | annadane | man pages are really a reference, meant to be skimmed, not 'read the man page and you'll instantly understand how everything works' but in some cases it can be that |
| 15:29.32 | Aebian | I have a full ecnrypted linux disk that is a nvme ssd. I have a second ssd in my laptop (different vendor but also ssd) I want to use as additional drive. Are there any steps I should taken care of? e.g. encryption settings |
| 15:29.39 | annadane | systemd you probably can do that with, but not bash |
| 15:29.58 | Haohmaru | i just wanted to see if there's any clues why xinput_calibration seems to not work with this stupid touchscreen |
| 15:30.15 | annadane | then why not say that? we can maybe help with that |
| 15:30.57 | Haohmaru | the solution was to run some of the debug output values from xinput_calibration into some funky formulas to get coefficients for a transformation matrix |
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| 15:31.35 | Haohmaru | then i slapped that into ../xorg.conf.d/ and now it works, but i'll have to repeat it again because i calibrated it "roughly" |
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| 15:32.57 | Haohmaru | xinput_calibrate spits out what looks like an xorg.conf but it contains some options, not a calibration matrix |
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| 15:40.23 | Freekid | hi how can I change owner so I can access home from windows pc via samba? |
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| 15:41.50 | petn-randall | Freekid: It's not that simple, but you'd have to set up samba for it to work. |
| 15:41.51 | petn-randall | !samba |
| 15:41.51 | dpkg | Samba is a Unix implementation of Windows file/print sharing (the SMB/CIFS protocol). http://samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/ http://samba.org/samba/docs/ http://wiki.samba.org/ #samba on irc.freenode.net. See also <dfs>. |
| 15:43.28 | Freekid | I have set it up but I can only access the ip which shows the samba folder I created when I click on it, It says permission denyed ask your network adminstrator |
| 15:43.55 | Freekid | so I guess its permission problem |
| 15:44.45 | petn-randall | Freekid: samba has windows user permissions which are separate from the unix permissions. |
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| 15:45.13 | Freekid | so what is wrong here can you guess? |
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| 15:46.31 | petn-randall | I'm guessing you didn't set up the samba user/password. |
| 15:47.53 | Freekid | yes |
| 15:47.58 | Freekid | I did not |
| 15:48.09 | Freekid | I tried to do it but I doesnt work :/ |
| 15:48.26 | Freekid | windows keep saying wrong password/user :/ |
| 15:50.33 | tangarora | Freekid; create a samba suser for each user on the linux box using the smbpasswd command. |
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| 15:51.02 | tangarora | then create the share and make suer that is says browneable. |
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| 15:51.44 | tangarora | Then make sure that the permission on the folder do not restrict the user trying to connect. |
| 15:51.59 | tangarora | Finally make sure windows is actually disconnected. |
| 15:52.29 | tharkun | petn-randall: Thanks for the insight. I was expecting something on the line of update-alternatives with some obscure, nearly undocumented parameter. |
| 15:52.59 | tangarora | there is usually someting caller $IPC share that windows uses and if you tried to connect as someone else you have that session still maybe... |
| 15:53.17 | tangarora | do a net use /d * or something... |
| 15:53.24 | tangarora | now connect |
| 15:53.24 | Freekid | have a look https://malzo.com/i/2020/01/13/W7R.png |
| 15:54.01 | Freekid | storage is the setting I made |
| 15:54.10 | Freekid | path is /home |
| 15:54.21 | tangarora | those are likely file share permissions. |
| 15:54.35 | tangarora | did you set valid user on the share or make it public? |
| 15:54.36 | Freekid | so I do 0777? |
| 15:54.47 | Freekid | public |
| 15:54.49 | Freekid | no user |
| 15:54.49 | tangarora | no at the share level |
| 15:55.06 | tangarora | you still need to use a user... |
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| 15:55.29 | tangarora | connect as... public will allow any user defined in samba to connect |
| 15:55.59 | tangarora | if it is a public share you can set the folder to 777 |
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| 15:56.20 | Freekid | Cmod 0777 /home? |
| 15:56.28 | tangarora | and in samba set the directory and file mode to 0777 |
| 15:56.37 | tangarora | no! |
| 15:56.44 | tangarora | nete set home to 777 |
| 15:56.49 | tangarora | never |
| 15:57.06 | Freekid | No problem it is not open in the internet lol |
| 15:57.07 | tangarora | share anoter folder. |
| 15:57.19 | sponix | still a bad practice |
| 15:57.19 | Freekid | No I need to do it |
| 15:57.41 | tangarora | also the home folder is a default share that is defined in the smb.conf file |
| 15:57.49 | tangarora | usershare |
| 15:57.51 | sponix | if you even really think something needs 777, you are likely not using your users and groups properly IMHO |
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| 15:58.19 | Freekid | hmm |
| 15:58.28 | ksk | !777 |
| 15:58.29 | dpkg | 777 is the mode corresponding to -rwxrwxrwx and is NEVER the right answer to your permission "problems". Anyone on your box (whether welcome or not) can do anything they want with those directories and files. It is VERY WRONG... learn how to use the permissions properly instead of leaving a gaping security hole to make something work in a hurry. Ask me about <user private groups>, <permissions>, <ftp must die>. |
| 15:58.34 | tangarora | just create a folder in the /mnt or something... and share that to avoid confusion |
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| 15:58.57 | ksk | there are ACLs of course, but most of the things you want to archive are doable with basic UNIX permissions |
| 15:59.54 | tangarora | each user has access to their own folder. |
| 15:59.54 | Haohmaru | !ftp must die |
| 15:59.54 | dpkg | FTP MUST DIE! http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie . For authenticated file transfer, ask me about <sftp>. For unauthenticated download, HTTP: http://daniel.haxx.se/docs/ftp-vs-http.html . Debian ceased offering mirrors via FTP on 2017-11-01 https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20170425 |
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| 16:00.50 | sponix | !sftp |
| 16:00.51 | dpkg | sftp is a program that provides FTP-like functionality over an ssh2 tunnel and is usually what you should be using instead of ftp://ftp. Linux clients are in the packages openssh-client, filezilla, gftp and many file managers like dolphin, konqueror and nautilus. The server is in the package openssh-server. For Windows clients, ask me about <winscp>, <filezilla>. See also <scp> and <sshfs>. |
| 16:01.06 | sponix | figured I would join in :) |
| 16:01.55 | *** join/#debian twobitsprite (~ifreeman@104.41.130.8) |
| 16:02.04 | tangarora | ;[homes] (uncomment this) |
| 16:02.34 | tangarora | read only = yes should be no |
| 16:02.47 | Freekid | its no |
| 16:02.59 | tangarora | create mask = 0700 |
| 16:03.09 | tangarora | directory mask = 0700 |
| 16:03.20 | tangarora | valid users = %S |
| 16:03.32 | *** join/#debian j7k6 (~j7k6@unaffiliated/j7k6) |
| 16:03.39 | tangarora | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:03.47 | *** join/#debian msb (~msb@unaffiliated/detergnet) |
| 16:03.49 | Freekid | yes checking |
| 16:04.07 | Freekid | "force user = nobody" should i omit it? |
| 16:04.16 | tangarora | dont add a path under the heading [homes] |
| 16:04.26 | tangarora | remove force user |
| 16:04.36 | tangarora | nobody will be denied by default |
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| 16:05.07 | tangarora | the /etc/samba/smb.conf is well documented... |
| 16:05.57 | tangarora | once done restart the machine or do the reload and restart commands for samba (too many ways depending on distro) |
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| 16:06.24 | Freekid | debian |
| 16:06.32 | Freekid | did the systemctl restart |
| 16:06.37 | Freekid | nothing changed |
| 16:06.40 | Freekid | same error |
| 16:06.51 | tangarora | restart the box |
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| 16:07.04 | Freekid | ok |
| 16:07.12 | tangarora | you may have incorrectly done it |
| 16:07.30 | *** part/#debian Sam_Gunn (~Sam_Gunn@198.22.153.34) |
| 16:08.05 | Freekid | now cant even access the storage :P |
| 16:08.21 | tangarora | let it start up |
| 16:08.46 | Freekid | already up |
| 16:08.52 | *** join/#debian kruug (~Viktor@about/windows/regular/kruug) |
| 16:08.58 | tangarora | is it a separate box? |
| 16:08.59 | *** join/#debian HicksD (~q@bernard.stupidbeard.uk) |
| 16:09.05 | Freekid | yes |
| 16:09.10 | tangarora | ssh to it |
| 16:09.22 | Freekid | I am doing that actually |
| 16:09.28 | tangarora | you are in? |
| 16:09.37 | Freekid | yes |
| 16:09.50 | tangarora | as the user that owns the share? |
| 16:10.08 | Freekid | root owns the share! |
| 16:10.14 | Freekid | not me! |
| 16:10.30 | Freekid | should i switch to root? |
| 16:10.30 | tangarora | what? |
| 16:10.36 | tangarora | what are you doing? |
| 16:10.41 | Freekid | the home directory |
| 16:10.45 | Freekid | root owns it |
| 16:10.47 | tangarora | create another user not root! |
| 16:10.55 | Freekid | there is another user |
| 16:11.00 | kruug | Debian 10. mysqld/mariadb will no longer start. Error is /usr/sbin/mysqld: error while loading shared libraries: libpthread.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 16:11.00 | kruug | . When searching, I cannot find reference to that library. How can I get mysqld working again without data loss? |
| 16:11.01 | Freekid | but root owns home |
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| 16:11.17 | tangarora | root owns /home yes |
| 16:11.40 | Haohmaru | shall we pay rent? |
| 16:11.41 | tangarora | the use owns /home/user |
| 16:11.53 | tangarora | user |
| 16:12.14 | Freekid | ok yes now it is owned by me |
| 16:12.28 | tangarora | so you own you home folder... |
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| 16:12.31 | tangarora | good |
| 16:12.40 | Freekid | root@debian:/home# ls -l |
| 16:12.46 | Freekid | drwxrwx---+ 8 study study |
| 16:13.12 | tangarora | you have other perms in that folder... |
| 16:13.24 | tangarora | ---+ 8 |
| 16:13.36 | Freekid | yes |
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| 16:13.39 | tangarora | you have accls |
| 16:13.59 | Freekid | damn |
| 16:14.12 | Freekid | so is it good or bad? |
| 16:14.24 | tangarora | it may be resticting you. |
| 16:14.31 | Freekid | I see |
| 16:14.49 | Freekid | so how can I get rid of it |
| 16:15.37 | *** join/#debian Frosty (~Frosty@232.184.broadband9.iol.cz) |
| 16:16.25 | tangarora | setfacl -bn home |
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| 16:16.36 | tangarora | list them with getfacl |
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| 16:17.21 | Freekid | -bash: getfacl: command not found |
| 16:17.59 | jjakob | install acl |
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| 16:18.35 | jjakob | you may need to add the acl mount option and remount as well |
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| 16:20.47 | Freekid | this acl tool is cool! |
| 16:21.32 | Freekid | here jjakob https://pastebin.com/H8RbV5Rc |
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| 16:22.38 | jjakob | doesn't look like any custom acls |
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| 16:23.17 | jjakob | you're missing a dependency |
| 16:23.23 | epitamizer | how come apt-get update completes fine, but when I try to install zsh it says unable to locate package? |
| 16:23.26 | jjakob | apt-get -f install |
| 16:23.48 | ksk | !bat |
| 16:23.48 | dpkg | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 16:24.02 | Freekid | me? jjakob? |
| 16:24.30 | Freekid | I have it already |
| 16:24.46 | jjakob | no sorry, kruug |
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| 16:24.54 | ksk | that faqtoid was spawned for epitamizer - as he seems to have problems using apt ;) |
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| 16:35.58 | epitamizer | that website didn't allow screenshots... https://postimg.cc/w36wqNkr/bbe5eee0 |
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| 16:40.23 | ksk | you seem to have a non-working repository setup, missing the "basic" repo. |
| 16:40.29 | ksk | !buster sources list |
| 16:40.32 | ksk | !buster sources.list |
| 16:40.33 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 16:41.03 | ksk | (you only have buster-updates and security, but not "buster main" ) |
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| 16:43.36 | Freekid | guys |
| 16:45.13 | epitamizer | OK I see what is going on |
| 16:45.18 | epitamizer | now its working |
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| 16:56.33 | jelly | kruug: 64bit installation? What does "ls -ld /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread-2.28.so" say? |
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| 16:57.29 | kruug | jelly, 64 yes. |
| 16:57.30 | kruug | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 146968 May 1 2019 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread-2.28.so |
| 16:57.30 | kruug | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18 May 1 2019 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0 -> libpthread-2.28.so |
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| 16:58.00 | kruug | I have resolved it for me now by using maria's repo, but that doesn't solve it for other Debian users, if it's even an issue. |
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| 16:59.43 | jelly | kruug: it's not a global issue, missing libpthread.so.0 link would break basically every piece of multithreaded software |
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| 17:31.50 | LtL | c |
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| 17:41.25 | McErroneous | Hi, is there a way to tell "apt-get install" to cache packets in directories based on "packet name" ? like store "arduino" in /var/cache/apt/archives/ARDUINO , instead of /var/cache/apt/archives... ? |
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| 17:45.38 | jelly | McErroneous: you need to make a repo from a directory, add it to sources.list, and apt-get update |
| 17:45.40 | jelly | !own repo |
| 17:45.40 | dpkg | To feed your own packages into apt, you need to create a repository with a Packages file that lists the packages. If you only have a few packages and don't have very sophisticated requirements, you can use <dpkg-scanpackages>. If you want to be able add/remove packages using regular Debian tools like dput then try <reprepro> or mini-dinstall. See http://wiki.debian.org/HowToSetupADebianRepository |
| 17:45.49 | jelly | !dpkg-scanpackages |
| 17:45.49 | dpkg | [dpkg-scanpackages] a tool to make your own repository for apt: [1, as root] apt-get install dpkg-dev; [2, as user] mkdir -p ~/public_html/foo; cd ~/public_html/foo; [3] cp /your/packages.deb .; [4] dpkg-scanpackages . /dev/null | gzip > Packages.gz; [5, as root] Add a deb line to your /etc/apt/sources.list: "deb http://localhost/~username/foo ./" or "deb file:///home/username/public_html/foo ./". Alternatively, ask me about <reprepro>. |
| 17:46.48 | *** join/#debian Organism (~irssi@upldz.com) |
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| 17:46.53 | jelly | do not put it anywhere under /var/cache/apt however, pick a separate path |
| 17:46.58 | b1ack0p | i am having problem |
| 17:47.05 | Organism | lol |
| 17:47.08 | Organism | me 2 |
| 17:47.13 | jelly | !ask |
| 17:47.13 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 17:47.14 | Organism | #meetoo |
| 17:47.20 | Organism | im having a problem |
| 17:47.38 | b1ack0p | after i installed synaptics driver i added some configurations to /usr/share/x11/xorg...d/70-synaptics.conf |
| 17:47.44 | b1ack0p | and then after reboot |
| 17:47.48 | b1ack0p | it doesnt get login screen |
| 17:47.53 | Organism | shit |
| 17:47.56 | Organism | lol |
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| 17:48.25 | b1ack0p | it shows ipw2100: fatal interrupt. scheduling firmware restart in tty1 |
| 17:48.35 | b1ack0p | i am typing now from tty2 |
| 17:48.48 | b1ack0p | it connected to wifi |
| 17:49.06 | b1ack0p | there are some other lines too but i cant select and paste here |
| 17:49.11 | jelly | b1ack0p: pastebin your /var/log/Xorg.0.log |
| 17:49.22 | jelly | !pastebinit |
| 17:49.22 | dpkg | A command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "apt-get install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg 2>&1 | pastebinit". For a list of pastebin sites do "pastebinit -l". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>. |
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| 17:49.27 | b1ack0p | mentioning ipv6 and thinkpad acpi evalf..e |
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| 17:50.25 | b1ack0p | jelly: how can i select-copy and paste here? |
| 17:50.33 | jelly | don't. |
| 17:50.34 | b1ack0p | i am on irssi on tty2 now |
| 17:50.40 | Organism | lol |
| 17:50.48 | b1ack0p | i cant type terminal commands in irssi |
| 17:50.57 | jelly | b1ack0p: open a new shell on tty3, install pastebinit and use that |
| 17:51.05 | Organism | lol |
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| 17:51.24 | b1ack0p | Organism: you must be having fun :p |
| 17:51.34 | Organism | id throw debian at jelly now |
| 17:51.41 | Organism | in the face |
| 17:51.48 | b1ack0p | pastebinit | /var/... ? |
| 17:51.55 | jelly | Organism: we have a separate channel for non-support chat, #debian-offtopic -- unless you have a tech question or are helping someone, keep quiet in here. |
| 17:52.08 | b1ack0p | or reverse |
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| 17:52.35 | jelly | b1ack0p: pastebinit < /some/file/path |
| 17:52.42 | inca2 | hi all |
| 17:52.45 | Filystyn | HELLO |
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| 17:53.18 | Filystyn | how is debian doing |
| 17:53.23 | Filystyn | are people still using it ? |
| 17:53.26 | b1ack0p | permision denied |
| 17:53.37 | jelly | b1ack0p: did you install the thing? |
| 17:53.49 | b1ack0p | i installed pastebinit thing yes |
| 17:54.05 | Organism | what |
| 17:54.07 | Filystyn | why not use termbin.com 9999 ? with net cat |
| 17:54.15 | Filystyn | instead polluting system with some silly binaries |
| 17:54.22 | jelly | b1ack0p: hmm. maybe be explicit choosing the pastebin site: pastebin -b http://paste.debian.net < /var/log/Xorg.0.log |
| 17:54.24 | Organism | too late |
| 17:54.46 | jelly | Filystyn: that is also a good idea |
| 17:55.07 | *** join/#debian Thedarkb (~beno@51-171-49-203-dynamic.agg3.kny.prp-wtd.eircom.net) |
| 17:55.09 | b1ack0p | 1125853 |
| 17:55.21 | jelly | b1ack0p: gonna need a whole URL please |
| 17:55.21 | b1ack0p | jelly: this is the number at the end of the link |
| 17:55.34 | b1ack0p | how am i suppose to copy paste here? O.o |
| 17:55.41 | jelly | TYPE IT IN |
| 17:55.48 | b1ack0p | pfffff |
| 17:55.53 | b1ack0p | jelly: ... |
| 17:55.57 | b1ack0p | http:// |
| 17:56.02 | b1ack0p | paste.debian |
| 17:56.07 | Filystyn | b1ack0p niga what is the problem man |
| 17:56.18 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 17:56.27 | greycat | Filystyn: excuse me, WHAT? |
| 17:56.44 | b1ack0p | do you know how difficult to type on QWERTZ swiss-german keyboard? :p |
| 17:57.08 | b1ack0p | jelly: http://paste.debian.net/1125853/ |
| 17:57.22 | Filystyn | greycat I aske ddo people use debian still. How can i make it more simple ? |
| 17:57.32 | jelly | [ 33.482] Parse error on line 70 of section InputClass in file /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/70-synaptics.conf |
| 17:57.32 | jelly | "EndSection" is not a valid keyword in this section. |
| 17:57.39 | *** join/#debian Haudegen (~quassel@178.115.237.87) |
| 17:57.46 | jelly | b1ack0p: you made a syntax error making your config file changes. |
| 17:57.46 | b1ack0p | hmmm |
| 17:57.51 | b1ack0p | which line? |
| 17:57.56 | greycat | Filystyn: at this particular moment I am asking you why you wrote "niga what is the problem man". |
| 17:58.33 | Filystyn | Oh he seemed not to be able copy paste lol |
| 17:58.48 | jelly | greycat: maybe he's a dark skinned kid from Poland and is allowed to use that word |
| 17:59.12 | *** join/#debian atmkblnd (~atmkblnd@96.33.32.49) |
| 17:59.15 | b1ack0p | i corrected |
| 17:59.17 | b1ack0p | let me reboot |
| 17:59.19 | b1ack0p | brb |
| 17:59.47 | Filystyn | you can copypaste with middlemouse or control+shift+c/v in term |
| 17:59.51 | Filystyn | welp he left |
| 18:00.16 | *** join/#debian Feuerwerker (~feuerwerk@unaffiliated/feuerwerker) |
| 18:00.34 | jelly | Filystyn: middle mouse might be a problem when GUI not running at all |
| 18:00.45 | *** join/#debian magic_ninja (~sparkie1@unaffiliated/magic-ninja/x-4708782) |
| 18:00.52 | jelly | which was his current issue to begin with |
| 18:00.54 | *** join/#debian fstd_ (~fstd@unaffiliated/fisted) |
| 18:01.31 | Filystyn | oooh so debian can mislead people now to not even install the DE |
| 18:01.37 | Filystyn | ! |
| 18:01.57 | greycat | That is a choice, not a "mislead". Lots of us don't install a Desktop Environment. |
| 18:02.19 | *** join/#debian b1ack0p (~m@unaffiliated/blackop) |
| 18:02.41 | b1ack0p | jelly: thx :p |
| 18:02.44 | Filystyn | That's a shame |
| 18:03.05 | Filystyn | b1ack0p why not use de ? |
| 18:03.13 | wMw | yeap. we are playing movies from linux terminal |
| 18:03.13 | b1ack0p | what de |
| 18:03.15 | jim | server |
| 18:03.17 | *** join/#debian well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@c114-77-254-225.rochd21.qld.optusnet.com.au) |
| 18:03.17 | jelly | Filystyn: they broke it. |
| 18:03.21 | wMw | 4k |
| 18:03.29 | jelly | now they fixed it. maybe |
| 18:03.30 | b1ack0p | i am using de already - xfce |
| 18:03.38 | b1ack0p | they who? |
| 18:03.40 | jelly | YOU |
| 18:03.45 | Filystyn | oh, they said here you don't run desktop env |
| 18:03.45 | b1ack0p | am i plural? O.o |
| 18:03.59 | jim | Filystyn, fact is, linux does not need any GUI at all |
| 18:04.00 | b1ack0p | Filystyn: i broke it and now fixed :p |
| 18:04.12 | jelly | b1ack0p: I'm using "singular they" because I don't remember whether you're a boy or a girl or what |
| 18:04.19 | jim | and some are fine wiath that |
| 18:04.21 | *** join/#debian jfb4 (~jfb4@host86-170-121-246.range86-170.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:04.22 | jelly | it's a thing English language allows |
| 18:04.29 | Filystyn | I can recommand fvwm I was using it with not a single failure and problem for 3 years now |
| 18:04.34 | greycat | b1ack0p's reported issue is "I used to get a GUI login, and then I installed a synaptics driver, details not shown, and now I no longer get my GUI login". |
| 18:04.49 | Filystyn | Alsso I heard suckless has nice de |
| 18:04.58 | Filystyn | but never used it |
| 18:04.58 | b1ack0p | greycat: thx for clarification :p |
| 18:05.02 | *** join/#debian McE_2 (~Dev@x590fedae.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 18:05.08 | joepublic | I use xfce on my desktop and no DE on servers |
| 18:05.15 | b1ack0p | jelly: do i look like a girl? O.o |
| 18:05.18 | b1ack0p | pffff |
| 18:05.23 | Filystyn | no DE on servers so suprising... |
| 18:05.29 | jelly | b1ack0p: I only remember you thought I was a girl, which was honestly amusing, but that does not say much about yourself, no |
| 18:05.37 | joepublic | some people use server DE via VNC |
| 18:05.57 | jelly | you look like gray words on dark background in hexchat :-D |
| 18:06.02 | b1ack0p | jelly: are not you a girl? :/ |
| 18:06.10 | jelly | heh heh heh. |
| 18:06.21 | Filystyn | joepublic well I had no idea |
| 18:06.24 | b1ack0p | i am a boy with 3 legs :p |
| 18:06.38 | b1ack0p | well bad joke .ok sorrzzz |
| 18:06.40 | b1ack0p | yy |
| 18:06.44 | Filystyn | b1ack0p how long on linux ? |
| 18:06.46 | jim | in place of brain? |
| 18:06.59 | b1ack0p | Filystyn: long my leg? |
| 18:07.00 | b1ack0p | ops |
| 18:07.09 | jelly | b1ack0p: ok, I may actually remember that so good to know |
| 18:07.13 | b1ack0p | well Filystyn i am using it as windows for long time |
| 18:07.22 | b1ack0p | still learning.. |
| 18:07.29 | McE_2 | Hi, how do i enable iptables alias , desired command is : <alias=" iptables -n"> , but it does not work... , how do i make iptables accept the "-n" in the alias.. ? |
| 18:07.34 | b1ack0p | jelly: what? O.O |
| 18:07.37 | Filystyn | You don't need windows programs ? |
| 18:07.43 | b1ack0p | Filystyn: i need |
| 18:07.47 | Filystyn | wine ? |
| 18:07.50 | b1ack0p | i usually dual boot |
| 18:07.56 | b1ack0p | but not this machine.. |
| 18:08.00 | Filystyn | Okie |
| 18:08.03 | b1ack0p | Filystyn: i prefer beer :p |
| 18:08.11 | jelly | McE_2: an alias in shell? |
| 18:08.16 | b1ack0p | or vodka maybe :p |
| 18:08.22 | *** join/#debian husky_ (~husky@77.124.12.175) |
| 18:08.24 | Filystyn | I removed my last windows at home few months ago. |
| 18:08.25 | inca2 | hi all, how to purge software on persistence? |
| 18:08.27 | greycat | McE_2: how do you typically run iptables? Via sudo? Via "sudo -s" and then "iptables"? |
| 18:08.29 | McE_2 | jelly: yes.. |
| 18:08.40 | McE_2 | greycat: yes.. |
| 18:08.46 | greycat | *headdesk* |
| 18:08.47 | b1ack0p | Filystyn: i still need office programs.. |
| 18:08.51 | b1ack0p | and some other things too |
| 18:08.59 | greycat | Stupid, stupid greycat. You should KNOW better. |
| 18:08.59 | b1ack0p | it s like my backup |
| 18:09.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1534] by debhelper |
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| 18:09.13 | Filystyn | i think libre handles nice word powerpoint and excel |
| 18:09.23 | b1ack0p | Filystyn: not so professional :/ |
| 18:09.24 | Filystyn | recently used gnumeric and it did it job |
| 18:09.46 | b1ack0p | for example other day i need a program or app to convert a pdf document to word |
| 18:09.48 | *** join/#debian husky_ (~husky@77.124.12.175) |
| 18:09.54 | b1ack0p | which contains tables and graphs |
| 18:10.01 | b1ack0p | non of the online things handled it |
| 18:10.10 | Filystyn | Ok i see. Cygwin isntalled ? |
| 18:10.13 | b1ack0p | so i had to install adobe acrobat pro trial version |
| 18:10.21 | b1ack0p | which converted very well |
| 18:10.27 | b1ack0p | and word handled it perfect |
| 18:10.38 | b1ack0p | libre office ruined fonts and graphs actuallz |
| 18:10.43 | b1ack0p | corrupted |
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| 18:10.54 | greycat | McE_2: The reason I have to ask this is because, depending on HOW you invoke iptables, an alias in your shell may or may not DO anything. |
| 18:11.06 | b1ack0p | Filystyn: well i installed Cygwin on win10 just to be able to use irssi on windows |
| 18:11.13 | Filystyn | hehe |
| 18:11.13 | greycat | You can set an alias on "ls", but then if you do "sudo ls", it will NOT use your alias. |
| 18:11.19 | *** join/#debian leopard (~leopard@unaffiliated/leopard) |
| 18:11.21 | b1ack0p | what else does it do? |
| 18:11.30 | b1ack0p | it acts like linux on windows :p |
| 18:11.38 | Filystyn | gives you shell and tons of soft. |
| 18:11.50 | Filystyn | I mostly used thos ssh and rsync |
| 18:11.53 | greycat | Unless you go out of your way to arrange stuff. And there's SO MANY variants here, that we need to know which one we're working around. |
| 18:11.53 | jelly | b1ack0p, Filystyn: sorry to interrupt, but this channel is meant for just tech support, you can chat about other stuff in ##chat or #debian-offtopic |
| 18:12.05 | Filystyn | We are talking about tech |
| 18:12.17 | b1ack0p | jelly: what if i wanna chat with you? :p |
| 18:12.19 | *** join/#debian husky_ (~Mor1or@77.124.12.175) |
| 18:12.25 | b1ack0p | Filystyn :p |
| 18:12.26 | jelly | Filystyn: and this channel is NOT for talk. It's for support. |
| 18:12.32 | *** join/#debian jfb4_ (~jfb4@host86-170-121-246.range86-170.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:12.41 | Filystyn | Anyway I finished. Just wanted to know few things |
| 18:12.45 | jelly | np |
| 18:12.56 | Filystyn | thx for answers b1ack0p |
| 18:13.05 | b1ack0p | jelly: just to clarify are you a girl or not? :/ |
| 18:13.06 | *** join/#debian n_1-c_k (~n_1-c_k@2a02:8010:63a6::70) |
| 18:13.07 | jelly | b1ack0p: I'm usually in #debian-offtopic |
| 18:13.09 | b1ack0p | Filystyn: np |
| 18:13.10 | *** join/#debian butteredpopcorn (~butteredp@c-73-140-160-149.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:13.18 | jelly | b1ack0p: and you're not going to get an answer on that |
| 18:13.22 | *** join/#debian Mor1or (~Mor1or@77.124.12.175) |
| 18:13.27 | b1ack0p | jelly: but why? :/ |
| 18:13.37 | b1ack0p | is flirting forbidden here? :p |
| 18:13.54 | b1ack0p | dont nerds flirt or what? lol |
| 18:13.55 | jelly | is flirting tech support? No, no it's not. |
| 18:14.10 | b1ack0p | well i wonder how nerds find nerd girls.. |
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| 18:14.53 | b1ack0p | diogenes_: hi |
| 18:15.19 | diogenes_ | b1ack0p, hi |
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| 18:16.33 | *** join/#debian KOLANICH (~KOLANICH@unaffiliated/kolanich) |
| 18:16.38 | KOLANICH | Hi |
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| 18:17.29 | b1ack0p | hi u too |
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| 18:17.33 | KOLANICH | I wanna make a package for a Windows app to use it via Wine. What dir should I use for them and what naming policy? |
| 18:18.14 | jelly | I don't think there's ANY policy for windows apps |
| 18:18.29 | *** join/#debian Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) |
| 18:18.44 | KOLANICH | jelly: do we need to create it? |
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| 18:19.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1541] by debhelper |
| 18:19.05 | jelly | KOLANICH: you probably want to have a windows installer and let people just install things from within wine wherever they want to |
| 18:19.28 | KOLANICH | jelly: no, I just want to update them via apt |
| 18:19.29 | leopard | or follow the microsoft guidelines if you're worried about standards |
| 18:20.25 | jelly | KOLANICH: I'm honestly nor sure how that would work, seeing as their emulated C: D: etc can be anywhere |
| 18:21.04 | KOLANICH | jelly: apps can be run from anywhere, not only from wine prefix |
| 18:21.08 | leopard | or look into using something like flatpack |
| 18:21.55 | jelly | shipping your own separate wine and app in a snap/flatpak/appimage might work, yeah |
| 18:22.07 | KOLANICH | leopard: I absolutely hate using flatpack, snap and docker for package management |
| 18:22.15 | jelly | KOLANICH: the "anywhere" needs to be visible from wine. |
| 18:22.43 | KOLANICH | jelly: yes, / is v9sible as Z:\ |
| 18:22.55 | jelly | KOLANICH: that's only default and not always the case |
| 18:23.41 | *** join/#debian earthundead (~earthunde@188.170.72.252) |
| 18:23.50 | jelly | and your app needs to be unusually "portable" to work from any path |
| 18:24.04 | KOLANICH | jelly: so then do we just need some hook to mount bind our dirs to a wine prefix? |
| 18:24.26 | *** join/#debian wwilliam (~wwilliam@unaffiliated/wwilliam) |
| 18:24.44 | KOLANICH | jelly: the app is portable. In fact most of windows apps I use are. |
| 18:25.14 | jelly | KOLANICH: if you're planning to ship to your own users, it might be an option. If you want anyone to use it, I'd probably go with own-wine-and-app in some standalone format |
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| 18:25.55 | jelly | and a wrapper in /usr/bin |
| 18:26.53 | leopard | not to mention most apps work well with specific wine versions that may not be the current wine version in -stable or -unstable |
| 18:26.58 | jelly | KOLANICH: what you hate as a user might differ vastly from what other users might find acceptable |
| 18:28.06 | jelly | if you have the source, maybe you can build the app against libwine and then have a "native" build |
| 18:28.19 | leopard | yeah you need to balance your desire to find a solution with your desire for it to be compatible with your personal technology aesthetics |
| 18:28.33 | *** join/#debian Ericounet (~Eric@2a01:e35:2f6f:d750:16e:3251:81c2:341c) |
| 18:28.35 | KOLANICH | jelly: I don't care about users who like self-sufficient packages. If they like to download a lot each day it is their choice. |
| 18:28.36 | jelly | #winehq people might help with libwine |
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| 18:29.13 | jelly | KOLANICH: but you're packaging binaries, so clearly you care about _some_ users? |
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| 18:30.03 | KOLANICH | jelly: yes, about the ones preferring small and efficient packaging mechanisms |
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| 18:30.33 | jelly | "small and efficient" usually means "native" |
| 18:30.50 | KOLANICH | jelly: isn't apt native? |
| 18:31.00 | jelly | windows PE executables aren't |
| 18:31.23 | KOLANICH | jelly: I am not on windows, for debian apt is native |
| 18:31.42 | jelly | <KOLANICH> I wanna make a package for a Windows app to use it via Wine. What dir should I use for them and what naming policy? |
| 18:31.52 | McE_2 | Hi, how do i tell "ntpdate" which server to use, apart from specifying it on the cli ? Or simply asking: What is the config-file ? (man ntpdate, does not tell ?) |
| 18:31.58 | greycat | !ntpdate |
| 18:31.59 | dpkg | ntpdate is an obsolete and unmaintained program to set a system clock via <NTP>. Just install the ntp package instead. Since Debian 5.0 "Lenny", ntp's default configuration files (NTPD_OPTS='-g' in /etc/default/ntp, 'iburst' option for default servers in /etc/ntp.conf) make ntpdate unnecessary. See also <why not ntpdate>. |
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| 18:32.35 | greycat | I guess they gave up on the alias-for-iptables question. |
| 18:33.14 | McE_2 | okay, i see "ntpdate" is obsolete, but i still want to use it.... |
| 18:33.16 | atmkblnd | indeed, |
| 18:33.22 | KOLANICH | jelly: what's wrong? %he app is not native. But the update mechanism is. |
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| 18:34.48 | KOLANICH | jelly: I'd like if I had this app native, but noone really wants to rewrite it because of that because in wine it works pretty fine with some minor issues. |
| 18:36.07 | jelly | KOLANICH: and the app does not have an update mechanism of its own? |
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| 18:37.35 | KOLANICH | jelly: It has, but using it would mean giving it root rights (I want the app be shared by all the users). |
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| 18:38.09 | KOLANICH | And I don't want every user to have an own copy of the app in its wine prefix |
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| 18:40.34 | jelly | KOLANICH: updating a windows program already installed in a wineprefix does not require root right. |
| 18:41.04 | KOLANICH | jelly: it is not shared between users that way |
| 18:41.27 | McE_2 | # |
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| 18:42.42 | jelly | KOLANICH: you'd have to invent half of nix or crossover bottles, keep a template wineprefix in eg. /opt/kolanich/appname, and have a wrapper that mount a persistency overlay from eg. ~/.config/kolanich/appname and then runs wine |
| 18:43.33 | jelly | KOLANICH: it's technically a lot easier to give up the requirement of "shared between users" |
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| 18:44.15 | KOLANICH | jelly: I mustn't give up ;) |
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| 18:44.35 | jelly | KOLANICH: this is pretty much what snaps do |
| 18:44.56 | jelly | (except for the wine bits) |
| 18:45.37 | jelly | maybe there's a way to make a snap depend on a specific native wine version. |
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| 18:45.48 | jelly | has no idea |
| 18:46.26 | KOLANICH | jelly: why not just to pack an app into a deb and not just use it using system default wine? |
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| 18:47.06 | leopard | what's the app? |
| 18:47.06 | *** join/#debian twobitsprite (~ifreeman@8.42.18.10) |
| 18:47.47 | jelly | KOLANICH: you have not verified it, in fact, works with every wine, and windows apps inside wine are notoriously picky |
| 18:48.06 | jelly | so I assumed you'd need to depend on a known good wine version |
| 18:48.25 | *** join/#debian Hoffe (~Hoffe@81.7.169.243) |
| 18:48.43 | jelly | and that's just a part of it, you still need all the template and overlay bits |
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| 18:50.07 | jelly | KOLANICH: I'd probably just make something like a winetricks recipe and let the users install it inside wine and let the app update itself the usual way |
| 18:50.36 | jelly | just like it does when it runs in windows |
| 18:51.03 | jelly | and give up the single instance goal |
| 18:51.46 | KOLANICH | leopard: in fact I am not yet sure. I gonna start with Notepad++, but eventually I will encounter something larger, so it's better to have a solution before that moment. In fact I am just a mad perfectionist who doesn't like to give up. |
| 18:53.19 | *** join/#debian nerditup (~nerditup@euclid.whatbox.ca) |
| 18:53.40 | jelly | hone your perfectionism on something people are going to actually use, and don't let "best" be the enemy of "good enough" |
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| 18:54.56 | KOLANICH | jelly: BTW I have never had regressions with Wine. |
| 18:55.06 | leopard | the alternative is PlayOnLinux is a large succesful wine launcher application that manages wine environments and can pull different versions, you could start by publishing there |
| 18:55.49 | leopard | you probably haven't played too many windows games on linux. seems like every single one requires a different version of wine |
| 18:56.11 | leopard | though I doubt you would see regressions with something like Notepad++ |
| 18:56.12 | ksk | take a look at lutris |
| 18:56.37 | ksk | really helps you around managing the differnt wine versions and their app specific environments |
| 18:57.06 | KOLANICH | leopard: In fact I have never played windows games in wine at all. |
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| 18:58.31 | leopard | the reason why the PlayOnLinux project exists is basically to help users manage applications that require different wine versions, and not just games |
| 18:58.36 | Thedarkb | What package should I install for Intel Extreme Graphics 2 drivers? |
| 19:00.04 | towo` | Thedarkb, you don't need any special package |
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| 19:00.59 | Thedarkb | Huh, it must actually be this slow. |
| 19:01.21 | greycat | Does it want firmware? |
| 19:01.28 | towo` | that's 17 years old crap |
| 19:01.35 | towo` | greycat, no |
| 19:01.36 | greycat | oh, then probably not |
| 19:02.18 | Thedarkb | It's even bad with 90s games. |
| 19:02.20 | Thedarkb | Hahahahaha |
| 19:02.50 | b1ack0p | Thedarkb: which machine? |
| 19:02.57 | towo` | Thedarkb, it was crap at lounch, what do you expect nowdays? |
| 19:02.58 | Thedarkb | I think you know, b1ack0p |
| 19:03.08 | b1ack0p | x40 or t41? |
| 19:03.09 | Thedarkb | towo`, Crap |
| 19:03.11 | Thedarkb | Oh, X40 |
| 19:03.16 | b1ack0p | nice |
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| 19:03.18 | Thedarkb | T41's been dead for years. |
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| 19:03.46 | b1ack0p | did you install deb10 to x40? |
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| 19:18.03 | McErroneous | !ntp |
| 19:18.03 | dpkg | hmm... ntp is The Network Time Protocol (NTP) is used to synchronize the clocks of computer systems over a network. "aptitude install ntp" is enough to get going and synchronise your clock using the default ntp pool. http://wiki.debian.org/NTP See also <systemd-timesyncd>, <set time>, <pool.ntp> |
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| 19:18.34 | McErroneous | !ntpdate |
| 19:18.35 | dpkg | ntpdate is an obsolete and unmaintained program to set a system clock via <NTP>. Just install the ntp package instead. Since Debian 5.0 "Lenny", ntp's default configuration files (NTPD_OPTS='-g' in /etc/default/ntp, 'iburst' option for default servers in /etc/ntp.conf) make ntpdate unnecessary. See also <why not ntpdate>. |
| 19:19.26 | Guifle | hello, I am wrestling with gnome display manager since yesterday. after buster upgrade boot hangs where gdm is started. I've tried loads of suggestions online, to no avail. Also another buster disk upgraded from stretch runs on the same machine without issues. |
| 19:19.27 | McErroneous | !why not ntpdate |
| 19:19.27 | dpkg | Use a daemon like ntpd, chrony or openntpd instead of <ntpdate> to keep your time synchronised. Rationale at http://www.redhat.com/archives/nahant-list/2005-December/msg00009.html . ntpdate is deprecated upstream (Debian bug #514318). |
| 19:19.43 | Guifle | and yes, I checked logs |
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| 19:20.19 | Guifle | I addressed all the error mentions here; https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/5scvJZmvbg/ |
| 19:20.35 | Guifle | these are excerpts from different logs in /var/log |
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| 19:22.03 | kruug | jelly: I apologize, I got pulled away for actual work. Were you the one that pinged me? My scrollback doesn't go back that far. |
| 19:22.04 | Guifle | I enabled root perm for the error in line 64, added 'nomodset' to grub, uninstalled old intel driver, reinstalled gnome shell etc. |
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| 19:23.36 | jjakob | !sources |
| 19:23.37 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 19:23.54 | jjakob | cool |
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| 19:26.17 | jjakob | !timesyncd |
| 19:26.49 | jjakob | !systemd-timesyncd |
| 19:26.50 | dpkg | well, systemd-timesyncd is a daemon that has been added for synchronizing the system clock across the network. It implements an SNTP client (no need to have/install NTP anymore). see https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd-timesyncd |
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| 19:27.25 | jjakob | I use that, no need to install an extra package if you already have systemd |
| 19:27.39 | jjakob | and it pulls in ntp servers from dhcp client |
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| 19:27.48 | joepublic | what systemd needs is more features. |
| 19:28.13 | jjakob | joepublic: I sensed sarcasm |
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| 19:28.22 | joepublic | just one of my many free services :) |
| 19:28.53 | jjakob | I think so too, but if it's there, why not use it... |
| 19:29.02 | joepublic | i have a hard time keeping up with all the things systemd can do, and the systemd way to do them. good stuff. |
| 19:29.10 | greycat | "In contrast to NTP implementations such as chrony or the NTP reference server this only implements a client side, and does not bother with the full NTP complexity, focusing only on querying time from one remote server and synchronizing the local clock to it." |
| 19:29.33 | greycat | The tinkertoy version. |
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| 19:29.53 | jjakob | yep. it's minimal |
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| 19:31.18 | jjakob | then again, I use freeipa-client which depends on ntpd, but that doesn't use servers from dhcpc, so I had to write a custom systemd unit override for systemd-timesyncd to start it even if ntp is installed |
| 19:31.47 | jjakob | I could configure static ntp servers but I like the feature of taking them from dhcpc |
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| 19:48.14 | jhutchins_wk | I've always liked the ideas of having a quorum of sources and calculating and compensating for drift. |
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| 19:55.44 | McErroneous | Re: set "StrictHostKeyChecking" to no in /etc/ssh/ssh_config |
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| 19:58.47 | McErroneous | !time |
| 19:58.47 | dpkg | i guess time is found on http://www.time.gov/, or 2020.01.13 19:58:47, or an illusion, and lunchtime doubly so - Ford Prefect said that. of no essence here!, or it's beer o'clock!!, or see http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch09.en.html#_system_and_hardware_time and ask me about <set time>. |
| 19:59.32 | McErroneous | !set time |
| 19:59.32 | dpkg | To set the time on Debian systems, use date --set. The truly enlightened user, however, will install <ntp> to have their clock set automatically on reboot and slewed to match time servers. Also verify the system's UTC setting and set the correct time zone; ask me about <utc>, <timezone>. see systemd-timesyncd instead of installing ntp https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd-timesyncd |
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| 20:02.17 | McErroneous | please would somebody tell me time in germany ? I have two machines , both show different times, both are configured to show /etc/timezone Europe/Berlin |
| 20:03.12 | greycat | https://www.google.com/search?q=time+in+berlin |
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| 20:03.42 | McErroneous | what might be the source of this problem ? |
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| 20:04.10 | ratrace | greycat: no lmgtfy? ;) |
| 20:05.10 | greycat | McErroneous: most commonly, the system clock is set wrong, because NTP (and its alternatives) is not installed, and either the hardware clock is wrong, or the hardware clock is set to UTC/not-UTC and should be set the other way around |
| 20:06.15 | McErroneous | greycat: the time on both machines differ by 1 hour...., which is showing me the right time ? |
| 20:06.41 | greycat | I already answered that one. |
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| 20:07.52 | McErroneous | hmmm..., let me check the hwclock settings... |
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| 20:08.50 | greycat | if the machine only runs Linux, you should set the hardware clock to UTC. if it dual-boots Linux and Windows, or something along those lines, then it's a much harder decision to make |
| 20:09.10 | McErroneous | ohh..., wow... , now i am stupid...., i dont have a hwclock |
| 20:09.25 | McErroneous | no readings... on "hwclock -r" |
| 20:10.06 | greycat | is this a single-board computer, like a Raspberry or something? |
| 20:10.23 | McErroneous | yes...., it is |
| 20:10.47 | greycat | then you'll *really* want to make sure some flavor of NTP is installed on it, and that it has a network connection at boot time |
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| 20:17.30 | McErroneous | "man date" sucks... |
| 20:18.22 | greycat | Here in the 21st century, computers tend to be networked together. We no longer have to set system clocks by hand typing "date" commands and hitting Enter at exactly the right moment while keeping one eye on a wristwatch. |
| 20:19.52 | Slimmy | Greetings. I try to install docx with pip3, but I get /usr/bin/ld cannot find -lz. Any ideas? |
| 20:20.38 | greycat | zlib1g-dev |
| 20:20.50 | cousin_luigi | greycat: My my, sometimes I feel like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BINijYepahA ! |
| 20:21.02 | McErroneous | i dont get the difference of "date -s" and "date -u" |
| 20:21.15 | greycat | date -u reports the current system time, but in UTC |
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| 20:21.34 | greycat | -s is for SETTING the system time, which nobody does this way if they can help it |
| 20:21.38 | cousin_luigi | greycat: https://youtu.be/3uEVDdFLBDw?t=8 this one is better |
| 20:21.38 | JordiGH | Any of you tried a recent X1 Carbon for Debian? |
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| 20:22.03 | JordiGH | I've got a 5th gen X1 Carbo and absolutely love it. I wonder how are things in later X1 Carbons. |
| 20:22.33 | McErroneous | greycat: you like to help a lot lately... |
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| 20:25.11 | Slimmy | greycat: How on earth's name did you know that? |
| 20:25.36 | greycat | It's been called that for decades. |
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| 20:25.54 | greycat | It's one of those things you just learn through experience. |
| 20:25.58 | Slimmy | greycat: How did you know I mean that my command needed a package? |
| 20:26.06 | Slimmy | oh okay. Thank you so much. |
| 20:26.24 | greycat | Because compiling stuff is really super common among people who've been Unix admins for long enough. |
| 20:26.41 | Slimmy | Really astonished of how much some people know about Linux. Thank you! |
| 20:26.45 | McErroneous | dang it, i shot my pi..., i did a cat /etc/localtime...., now i dont even see proper what i am typeing, a reset did not solfe it.. |
| 20:27.10 | greycat | Ctrl-q, then Ctrl-J stty sane Ctrl-J |
| 20:27.29 | greycat | It's almost certainly just this one terminal emulator that's messed up, not the whole OS. |
| 20:27.56 | greycat | If you can't fix it with stty sane and reset, then just close this terminal and open a new one. |
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| 20:30.04 | McErroneous | solved it by detaching screen ...., followed by a reset.., then rejoining the open screen... |
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| 20:38.51 | ndorf | am i the only one seeing firefox-esr take ~5 seconds to start after the recent stable update (68.4.1esr-1~deb10u1)? |
| 20:39.13 | ndorf | the official mozilla binary of the same version doesn't have the issue |
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| 20:40.11 | deebi0n | idk, is that a long time for it to start though? |
| 20:40.17 | ndorf | yes |
| 20:40.22 | deebi0n | How long should it take? |
| 20:40.23 | spacebug^ | starts directly for me |
| 20:40.28 | ndorf | mozilla's binary starts instantaneously |
| 20:40.32 | deebi0n | weir |
| 20:40.34 | deebi0n | weird* |
| 20:40.43 | deebi0n | I should test it on my machine |
| 20:41.02 | ndorf | (also version 68.4.1) |
| 20:41.10 | deebi0n | yeah lol it just opens like instantly |
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| 20:41.28 | deebi0n | I doubt esr would have many bugs in it |
| 20:41.35 | ndorf | interesting, i wonder why it would be behaving differently here |
| 20:41.37 | deebi0n | try reinstalling |
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| 20:43.13 | McErroneous | hmmm..., i constantly freeze my screen session.... somehow..., idk what i am doing wrong.., 6 minutes of even the system time was not showing.., i just typed random keys on the keyboard, and it unfreezed...., |
| 20:43.20 | spacebug^ | try clearing the user file folder (though you will lose all settings). Backup first maybe |
| 20:44.04 | ndorf | i did try renaming ~/.mozilla, with no effect. and the mozilla binary works fine even without doing that |
| 20:44.07 | deebi0n | definitely backup first |
| 20:46.21 | ndorf | aha! fixed, thanks to strace. problem was it wanted /tmp/firefox-esr, which already existed but owned by another user. it retried several times with a delay, and removing it seems to have fixed it |
| 20:46.37 | ndorf | still not sure why only the debian version does that, but whatevs |
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| 20:53.34 | McErroneous | !timesyncd |
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| 20:54.09 | greycat | It hasn't magically changed in the last hour. It's still the kiddie-ride version of NTP meant for end user laptops. |
| 20:55.46 | McErroneous | :) |
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| 20:59.42 | McErroneous | which image results in my mind, if you place a cat in a river hunting for fish ? |
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| 21:12.51 | McErroneous | Hint: it is not a sunset, not is it time for fried fish... |
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| 21:13.10 | McErroneous | nor is it time for fried fish... |
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| 21:16.13 | jhutchins_wk | McErroneous: When is it time for fried fish? |
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| 21:23.19 | McErroneous | Maybe by the time... , when the mountains hit the ground of the oceans.., maybe .... |
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| 21:24.02 | McErroneous | idk.. |
| 21:25.12 | jjakob | !systemd-timesyncd |
| 21:25.13 | dpkg | i heard systemd-timesyncd is a daemon that has been added for synchronizing the system clock across the network. It implements an SNTP client (no need to have/install NTP anymore). see https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd-timesyncd |
| 21:25.16 | jjakob | McErroneous: |
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| 21:26.13 | jjakob | unrelated, why would cryptsetup suggest keyutils? what di they do anyway? |
| 21:26.20 | jjakob | !keyutils |
| 21:26.36 | greycat | ,info keyutils |
| 21:26.37 | judd | Package keyutils (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Linux Key Management Utilities. Version: 1.6-6; Size: 50.4k; Installed: 146k; Homepage: https://people.redhat.com/~dhowells/keyutils/ |
| 21:26.58 | jjakob | nothing useful on the homepage, just packages and sources |
| 21:26.59 | greycat | or use "apt-cache show keyutils" locally for the full description, or see packages.debian.org, etc. |
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| 21:27.24 | jjakob | I did, I wondered if someone has a concrete use case. |
| 21:28.59 | jjakob | as I understand it, the kernel has a keyring and you can put arbitrary keys in it? |
| 21:29.28 | jjakob | supposedly it's more secure than userspace keyrings? |
| 21:30.52 | jjakob | https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.13/security/keys/core.html |
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| 21:44.02 | parsival | Raaayyy: hey its me from the apartments |
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| 22:01.46 | McErroneous | hmmm....., how much time does it take, for an apple to become a tree ? |
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| 22:08.48 | Freekid | my /home drwxrwx---+ 8 user user |
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| 22:09.29 | Freekid | still samba doesnt work |
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| 22:35.09 | yyyaaarrr91 | hey folks |
| 22:35.37 | yyyaaarrr91 | need insight new to this and started learning python about 2-3 months ago |
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| 22:39.32 | lroe | I am trying to install libldap-2.4-2 from buster-backports. I had to install it initially from source. Currently, I have installed "2.4.48+dfsg-1" and I am trying to install "2.4.48+dfsg-1~bpo10+1" when I run apt-get install -t buster-backports libldap-2.4-2, I get "libldap is already the newest version" |
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| 22:43.16 | lroe | when I run: "apt install libldap-2.4-2=2.4.48+dfsg-1~bpo10+1" apt thinks it's being downgraded and tries to remove everything that depends on it |
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| 22:55.26 | parsival | Perceval: hey there!!! |
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| 22:55.54 | parsival | wodencafe: hey now! |
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| 23:03.49 | solrize | dvs, dac894 - install suggests is because most of the time, but apparently not for cups, the suggestions are for stuff i actually want. debian packages are usually too finely split up for my tastes. |
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| 23:06.39 | jjakob | Freekid: ps aufx | grep smb |
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| 23:10.12 | jjakob | Freekid: https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/User_Home_Folders |
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| 23:35.32 | Freekid | It is working now |
| 23:35.55 | Freekid | can you help to to purge the files I have downloaded/installed now> |
| 23:36.17 | sponix | Freekid: like the packages pulled down ? |
| 23:36.28 | Freekid | yes |
| 23:36.33 | Freekid | just no |
| 23:36.35 | Freekid | w |
| 23:36.43 | Freekid | I want to undu it |
| 23:36.50 | Freekid | undo |
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| 23:41.15 | Freekid | sponix |
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| 23:43.34 | sponix | Freekid: I missed whatever happened prior. What exactly are you attempting to "undo" ? |
| 23:43.58 | Freekid | The things I have just installed |
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| 23:44.34 | themill | Try full sentences. |
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| 23:45.30 | Freekid | I have run a bash script |
| 23:45.33 | sponix | Freekid: what "things" |
| 23:45.42 | Freekid | and I want to undo it |
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| 23:46.01 | sponix | pulls out his mind reading cap, and his crystal ball |
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| 23:48.19 | joepublic | :: I'm getting a message... :: but it would be insulting :: |
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| 23:51.20 | yyyaaarrr91 | #flood |
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| 23:55.44 | ZaZaGX | should i buy a mac? |
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| 23:58.29 | Freekid | why? |
| 23:58.36 | sponix | ZaZaGX: if the price is right, and you want to Google about Debian support on Mac -- go for it |
| 23:59.08 | Freekid | xsp is better |
| 23:59.52 | yyyaaarrr91 | im on samsung chromebook any better laptops |
