| 00:01.18 | somiaj | urxtnw: what do you mean by 'is everything configured'? As with all debian packages, you get the defult configuration, in this case you get a minimial system with the default configuration of the standard packages |
| 00:01.22 | somiaj | !standard |
| 00:01.22 | dpkg | rumour has it, standard task is a "task" that should be installed on all machines during the installer stage. It installs packages that are important, required and standard (i.e. "aptitude install ~pstandard ~prequired ~pimportant"). Packages in the <essential> set are always installed. Also ask me about <tasksel>. |
| 00:02.37 | urxtnw | somiaj, that makes sense, thank you! |
| 00:02.50 | sponix2ipfw | mtcdood: glad you are finding something.. The Debian and Arch wiki's didn't do much for me (find that odd) |
| 00:07.25 | urxtnw | somiaj, what I was kind of referring to, something like Arch Linux, when you install it you have to configure a lot of things manually, even X, so that's why I was asking how much debian configures for you let's say in between Arch Linux and Ubuntu |
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| 00:08.53 | somiaj | debian tries to provide default configuration so if you install something it will just run |
| 00:08.54 | sponix2ipfw | urxtnw: for my cli vm's I tell it just ssh server, and the tools set... works well |
| 00:09.10 | somiaj | but in most cases people do often want to edit the configuration to their own liking. |
| 00:09.15 | urxtnw | that's great! |
| 00:09.16 | urxtnw | thanks guys |
| 00:09.33 | somiaj | urxtnw: debian also uses debconf and will aks you a few questions (depending on your debconf priority settings) during an install on things that it thinks a user needs to input. |
| 00:10.02 | urxtnw | that's awesome. |
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| 00:11.09 | urxtnw | I was curious, what's the best/easiest way to do the following: Make a script or some sort so that the network of a laptop of my choice, connects automatically to a domain (my house) where I have a VPN, so that I can ssh into it |
| 00:12.44 | somiaj | so you want your laptop to go through your houses vpn no matter where it is configured? |
| 00:12.46 | sponix2ipfw | urxtnw: the installer walks you through basic networking setup |
| 00:13.12 | urxtnw | basically how to I automate VPN connection before debian starts |
| 00:13.16 | somiaj | i.e. if you connect to some wifi at a coffee shop, one you connect you then connect to your vpn and use that instead? |
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| 00:13.53 | urxtnw | one second, my connection is giving me a hard time |
| 00:14.59 | somiaj | that is fine. A lot really depends on how you configure your network. I personally manually connect to the a vpn manually. If using network-manager it has tools for this. If using the debian /etc/network/interfaces file, you can run custom post-up scripts, that run after the inteface is up, and the script could connect to your vpn using openvpn or whatnot |
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| 00:20.40 | urxtnw | sorry I kept getting disconnected. I am back now and shouldn't be a problem anymore. What was the last message I wrote? or that someone @ me |
| 00:21.19 | somiaj | that is fine. A lot really depends on how you configure your network. I personally manually connect to the a vpn manually. If using network-manager it has tools for this. If using the debian /etc/network/interfaces file, you can run custom post-up scripts, that run after the inteface is up, and the script could connect to your vpn using openvpn or whatnot |
| 00:21.52 | somiaj | debian provides you lots of tools, use what you like. If you like network-manager use that. If you want to use networkd (disabled by default) use that |
| 00:22.18 | somiaj | If you want to use debians /etc/network/interfaces file (closer to manually configuraing things) use that, but don't use multiple methods, as they can conflict and cause problems. |
| 00:22.40 | somiaj | For wifi I personally use /etc/network/interfaces to launch wpa_supplicant in roam mode, then wpa_supplicant manages the actually wifi connections |
| 00:23.14 | urxtnw | somiaj, I see, that makes sense. if I set something in /etc/network/interfaces, will it automatically connect at system boot? |
| 00:23.27 | somiaj | only if you 'auto interface' to tell it to run at boot |
| 00:23.49 | urxtnw | ah great, you just solved my problem! |
| 00:24.10 | somiaj | (you sometimes have to be a little careful of race conditions) |
| 00:24.13 | urxtnw | will /etc/network/interfaces ever be re-written due to a dist-upgrade or upgrade? |
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| 00:24.49 | somiaj | debian packages will not rewrite their config files in /etc without asking first |
| 00:25.03 | somiaj | in this case I don't think it is even considered a conffile of some package, so never |
| 00:25.59 | urxtnw | I've never made a VPN at home, for my laptop to connect to it, would it be through another interface? |
| 00:26.23 | urxtnw | (I'm just assuming since you mentioned modifying the /etc/network/interfaces |
| 00:26.30 | somiaj | debian is fairly smart with conf files. If you have edited it (or deleted it) debian will not bring it back or overwrite your edits without asking (often times during an upgrade it will say something like 'there is a new default config file avialble, do you want to use it, not use it, and a few more options) |
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| 00:26.51 | somiaj | this sometimes gets people |
| 00:26.52 | somiaj | !confmiss |
| 00:26.52 | dpkg | You have to especially tell the packaging system to reinstall config files because when they are gone, it is assumed that you want them to stay deleted. "aptitude -o DPkg::Options::='--force-confmiss' reinstall $packagename" will restore them (man dpkg for details). If the package uses <ucf> for config file management, ask me about <ucf confmiss>. |
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| 00:27.50 | urxtnw | That's great! |
| 00:27.50 | somiaj | and even then debian will always make a copy (/etc/conffile.old) or if you keep the old one provide the dpkg one (/etc/conffile.dpkg-dist) or something like that, I forget the actual extensions |
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| 00:29.37 | urxtnw | somiaj that's awesome. The reason I am asking all this is because I have a huge problem to deal with: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/ez392h/setting_up_a_remote_linux_deskop_for_disabled/ |
| 00:30.15 | urxtnw | and I chose Debian so far so that it's always stable and I have at least 5 years before I visit my brother and troubleshoot his laptop in real life |
| 00:30.32 | somiaj | for a desktop more like 2-3 years |
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| 00:30.40 | urxtnw | somiaj, in case you have any suggestions for that problem I posted on reddit, they're more than welcome |
| 00:31.21 | somiaj | (LTS support will often stop support desktop software, espically the browser, so waiting 5 years though LTS might not be the best advise on a desktop system) |
| 00:31.43 | somiaj | I suggest you upgrade desktopsystems within a year of the new release, so this means you upgrade about once every 2-3 years |
| 00:33.01 | urxtnw | I see. In terms of strategy is that the best way to do it, though? Is there a simpler way than making a VPN and connecting that computer to my home? |
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| 00:35.50 | somiaj | I guess I don't really follow you here. Is the only reason you want a VPN is to be able to connect to this remote machine? |
| 00:36.33 | urxtnw | yes |
| 00:36.51 | urxtnw | and to connect to my home network as well when I'm traveling |
| 00:36.53 | somiaj | I personally just use ssh, not need for a vpn |
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| 00:37.20 | somiaj | I don't have that much experience with vpn. |
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| 00:37.57 | urxtnw | no worries, what did you mean by " I suggest you upgrade desktopsystems within a year of the new release" So, I should be dist-upgrading every year? |
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| 00:38.25 | urxtnw | oh nvm, I think I understand, I'm running Debian 9 let's say and once Debian 10 arrives I should be upgrading within a year of its release |
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| 00:40.13 | somiaj | no, I mean that when debian makes new release (for intance buster was released in July 2019), once buster was releasted, stretch only gets a year of support from the security team (then another 2-3 years from the LTS team) |
| 00:40.32 | somiaj | so sometime between July 2019 to July 2020 I suggest desktopusers running stretch upgrade to buster |
| 00:40.39 | somiaj | a new release happens about every 2-3 years |
| 00:40.44 | somiaj | so every 2-3 years you have to do this again. |
| 00:41.01 | somiaj | also often to wait a few months (let know bugs get fixed/discovered) |
| 00:41.29 | qorg11 | Is it possible to create a debian lenny system using cdebootstrap? |
| 00:41.53 | somiaj | This is just because the LTS team really only supports server side software and things like webbrowers loose support quick and since they are often the cause of exploits, best to upgrade. |
| 00:42.08 | urxtnw | somiaj, that makes sense. I didn't know that! wow |
| 00:42.13 | somiaj | gordonfish: from archive.debian.org I belive you can. |
| 00:42.38 | somiaj | urxtnw: for instance I think chromium support in stretch is already discontinued |
| 00:43.12 | urxtnw | ooooh wow. So the LTS just supports server side? Is it the same with Ubuntu btw? I don't think Cannonical mentions that in their LTS |
| 00:43.29 | qorg11 | Thanks |
| 00:43.37 | somiaj | well they support what they have funding for. For the most part it is usually just the webbrowser that looses support early. |
| 00:43.47 | somiaj | qorg11: thanks for noticig my bad tab-completion |
| 00:43.51 | urxtnw | oh I see |
| 00:44.32 | somiaj | urxtnw: https://www.debian.org/security/2020/dsa-4606 -- but check that out, Support for chromium ended in jan-20 for stretch. |
| 00:44.34 | JackFrost | An Ubuntu LTS would equate Debian's stable release, not LTS. Ubuntu/Canonical has official support for anything in 'main', 'universe' is supported by 'the community'. |
| 00:45.17 | urxtnw | very interesting |
| 00:45.36 | somiaj | there is also a script that tells you what is no longer supported by LTS |
| 00:45.38 | somiaj | !lts |
| 00:45.38 | dpkg | Debian Long Term Support (LTS) is a project to extend the lifetime of all Debian stable releases to (at least) 5 years. Debian LTS is not handled by the Debian security team, but by a separate group of volunteers and companies. Ask me about <jessie-lts> and see https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information. #debian-lts on irc.oftc.net. |
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| 00:46.36 | somiaj | hmm, can't seem to find it, but there is a package you can install that will let you know what (if any packages you have installed) is no longer supported by LTS |
| 00:47.03 | urxtnw | wow, that's very interesting. I guess it somehow checks the news? |
| 00:47.13 | prometheanfire | I'm looking to compile a module against the running kernel but the kernel headers for the kernel version currently running are not available that I can see (I can't apt install linux-headers-`uname -r`), is there a way to get the old deb and dpkg -I it? |
| 00:47.14 | urxtnw | JackFrost, what is universe? is ' |
| 00:47.25 | urxtnw | JackFrost, is firefox in the universe ? |
| 00:47.32 | somiaj | prometheanfire: snapshot.debian.org |
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| 00:47.48 | somiaj | prometheanfire: though you should probably upgrade your kernel and not run an insecure one. |
| 00:48.08 | somiaj | urxtnw: that is a ubuntu thing, debian supports all packages in its repo |
| 00:48.10 | JackFrost | urxtnw: Firefox is in main and is pretty well supported, actually. You get the latest in an LTS even. |
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| 00:48.42 | JackFrost | somiaj: With some exceptions, as webkit for example wasn't really supported in Debian stable releases. |
| 00:48.50 | somiaj | ubuntu (well the coorpration that owns it) only supports 'main' packages, all others are provided as is (often just taken from debian or built by other members of the community) |
| 00:49.08 | somiaj | JackFrost: actually webkit is being supported in buster (wasn't in stretch) |
| 00:49.35 | somiaj | there was even a recent DSA about it, but yes, support can be limited in cases where manpower isn't enough for things like browser |
| 00:49.46 | prometheanfire | somiaj: well, I agree with upgrading, but I can wish for a unicorn too :P |
| 00:49.51 | urxtnw | is there a way in terminal to tell where the package came from which repos? |
| 00:49.59 | somiaj | prometheanfire: all old packages are on snapshot.debian.org |
| 00:50.12 | prometheanfire | ack, thanks |
| 00:50.20 | somiaj | urxtnw: apt policy packagename (provided the pakcage is in yoru current sources.list -- yes) |
| 00:50.20 | JackFrost | somiaj: Yeah, stretch was where I was talking about with webkit. |
| 00:50.41 | urxtnw | somiaj, thanks, it worked! |
| 00:51.00 | somiaj | and even then debian only fixes CVEs it deems sever enough, some CVEs are considered edge case and not support, but debian is fully open |
| 00:51.28 | somiaj | security-tracker.debian.org will let you know if debian has fixed the CVE or not |
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| 00:51.56 | somiaj | often there is a bug report or reason why they choose to not fix it |
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| 00:53.18 | urxtnw | thank you very much for teaching me all this somiaj |
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| 01:04.55 | gordonfish | somiaj? |
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| 01:26.34 | thenori | Is there a way to associate an icon with a raw binary besides launching the binary with a .desktop file? |
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| 01:47.08 | tinfoil-hat | Hey, I am on a fresh vps install with debian 10 and I want to create a systemd user service file. but I get Failed to connect to bus: No such file or directory I tried to install the dbus usersession via apt and rebooted. But this didn't work. does anyone know how to troubleshoot this? |
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| 01:51.05 | tinfoil-hat | systemd --test gives me: Failed to allocate manager object: No such device or address |
| 01:51.45 | petn-randall | tinfoil-hat: Can you paste the command + complete output to https://paste.debian.net? Also the content of the user service file would be great. |
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| 01:53.59 | tinfoil-hat | I posted the complete output of systemd --test. But I can paste the servicefile if you want |
| 01:55.21 | tinfoil-hat | https://termbin.com/r09o |
| 01:55.29 | tinfoil-hat | petn-randall: @ |
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| 01:59.15 | tinfoil-hat | petn-randall: here's the complete pastebin for you https://pastebin.com/ejZfzsVn |
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| 02:09.14 | terr__ | I am not planning on doing this but I think it will work - comments please: I have debian-10.blah.iso mounted as a loop back. From what I can tell I should be able to boot into it - I believe how it works is the kernel and initrd files will be loaded into ram. From there we get a branch into the new kernel and it takes over and by the time the reboot has finished of course the loop back and so forth will be gone but who cares - we don't need em any more |
| 02:09.15 | terr__ | anyways. IMHO this is superior to burning a CD or copying same to a USB stick. |
| 02:09.59 | OSP10 | thenorili, the commands arent working |
| 02:10.07 | OSP10 | ill try the root terminal |
| 02:10.13 | thenorili | @OSP10, walk me through what's not working |
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| 02:10.35 | thenorili | Every command I listed must be executed as root |
| 02:11.00 | OSP10 | dont think this os will allow that for security reasons |
| 02:11.12 | OSP10 | actually it ownt |
| 02:11.13 | OSP10 | wont |
| 02:11.35 | OSP10 | i mean, make a user root by default |
| 02:11.43 | thenorili | You don't need to be default root |
| 02:11.52 | thenorili | All you need to do is type 'sudo' ten times |
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| 02:12.08 | OSP10 | even as root? |
| 02:12.19 | OSP10 | i am # now |
| 02:12.24 | thenorili | no that works |
| 02:12.27 | OSP10 | ok |
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| 02:13.09 | thenorili | in the future if you wanna do that fast you can just type "su -" but that's not recommended if you're inclined to copying large blocks of text from irc |
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| 02:13.33 | thenorili | & yeah just never copy a block of text like that into your terminal lol |
| 02:14.55 | thenorili | you might need to skip the line with the boot partition like i said, idk you said you have another partition with grub and that sounds like boot partition to me |
| 02:15.26 | OSP10 | cd ~/dev no such file or directory |
| 02:15.31 | thenorili | no |
| 02:15.35 | thenorili | none of this is in user space |
| 02:15.39 | thenorili | not ~/dev, /dev |
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| 02:16.08 | thenorili | ~ is user space, / is root directory |
| 02:16.36 | thenorili | if you mounted anything in user space, the command to unmount is 'umount' |
| 02:16.44 | OSP10 | ok i found it |
| 02:16.50 | thenorili | as in 'umount /dev/sdc10' |
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| 02:18.00 | OSP10 | what does it mean when it has a little bolt or key to the right of /dev/sda1 in gparted? |
| 02:18.31 | thenorili | I think that's the one that means it's currently mounted |
| 02:18.50 | thenorili | What stage are you at? |
| 02:18.57 | terr__ | I have always used su - never use sudo. I keep reading - not a good idea to work as root - but damnit - everything I have been doing the last few days I need root. |
| 02:19.41 | thenorili | not *everything* |
| 02:19.58 | thenorili | and believe me I do a shitton of work as root lol. |
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| 02:20.56 | OSP10 | dev/root |
| 02:21.04 | thenorili | what? |
| 02:22.38 | OSP10 | no root folder in /dev |
| 02:22.43 | OSP10 | checked ls -la too |
| 02:22.44 | *** part/#debian mrlen (~mrlen@pool-72-66-80-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:22.50 | thenorili | mount -o bind /dev /mnt/dev && mount -o bind /sys /mnt/sys |
| 02:22.53 | thenorili | those are the commands |
| 02:23.07 | thenorili | 'root' ========== / |
| 02:24.23 | thenorili | @terr__, the idea is that you should be intentional & aware whenever you're working in kernel space |
| 02:25.31 | OSP10 | mount -o bind /dev /mnt/dev && mount -o bind /sys /mnt/sys |
| 02:25.45 | thenorili | yes, those are the commands |
| 02:25.54 | OSP10 | mount -o bind /dev /mnt/dev && mount -o bind /sys /mnt/sys |
| 02:26.00 | thenorili | you're pasting them into irc man |
| 02:26.16 | OSP10 | mount: /mnt/dev: mount point does not exist. |
| 02:26.23 | OSP10 | i understand that |
| 02:26.43 | thenorili | okay, the mount point would exist if you've already mounted your root directory |
| 02:28.10 | thenorili | this paste is assuming that you do not have a separate partition for your /boot/ directory |
| 02:28.11 | thenorili | https://paste.debian.net/1130116/ |
| 02:28.35 | thenorili | replace /dev/sda69 with your root partition, the one you're calling your persistent partition |
| 02:28.49 | thenorili | the instructions must be done in that order |
| 02:29.12 | OSP10 | mig |
| 02:29.16 | OSP10 | yes i do |
| 02:29.25 | thenorili | what's its mount point? |
| 02:29.45 | thenorili | bc if it's ~/mnt then it won't work |
| 02:30.19 | OSP10 | , /dev/sda3 filesystem fat322 usbboot |
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| 02:30.48 | OSP10 | i have 5 parititions |
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| 02:31.01 | OSP10 | grub2 core.img |
| 02:31.02 | OSP10 | fat32 |
| 02:31.07 | OSP10 | iso9660 |
| 02:31.08 | OSP10 | ext4 |
| 02:31.11 | OSP10 | ntfs |
| 02:31.11 | *** kick/#debian [OSP10!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (flood) |
| 02:31.13 | thenorili | please don't spam lines |
| 02:31.22 | *** join/#debian OSP10 (~user@2601:203:300:8be0:27d2:2c8c:b9a7:d9c1) |
| 02:31.31 | thenorili | so hi, please don't spam |
| 02:31.42 | OSP10 | and ntfs |
| 02:31.43 | terr__ | thenorili, if I go get some beer then I exit root. |
| 02:31.54 | terr__ | otherwise hopefully I am aware. |
| 02:32.22 | thenorili | those aren't explanations of what the partitions are, they're file system types |
| 02:32.35 | thenorili | I have a lot of partitions, let me show you how I communicate their purpose |
| 02:32.41 | OSP10 | ok |
| 02:32.47 | terr__ | thenorili, I did ask a question... I will repost because I am wondering if one can test a liveCD this way. |
| 02:33.05 | terr__ | I am not planning on doing this but I think it will work - comments please: I have debian-10.blah.iso mounted as a loop back. From what I can tell I should be able to boot into it - I believe how it works is the kernel and initrd files will be loaded into ram. From there we get a branch into the new kernel and it takes over and by the time the reboot has finished of course the loop back and so forth will be gone but who cares - we don't need em any more |
| 02:33.05 | OSP10 | . /dev/sda2 is primary grub2 core.img |
| 02:33.05 | terr__ | anyways. IMHO this is superior to burning a CD or copying same to a USB stick. |
| 02:33.09 | thenorili | I saw that and was interested and idk I'd be willing to test it if you planned it out |
| 02:33.34 | OSP10 | , /dev/sda3 is primary fat32 usbboot |
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| 02:34.03 | OSP10 | . /dev/sda4 is primary iso9660 (custom debian os) |
| 02:34.05 | urxtnw | !sudo |
| 02:34.06 | dpkg | [sudo] (Substitute User DO) Not enabled by default on Debian systems; configure /etc/sudoers first, ask me about <visudo>, <sudoers>. sudo can give limited super user privileges to specific users, or allow you to do silly things like run X apps with root permissions, or good in scripts with "username ALL = NOPASSWD: /some/program". See also <sudo path>. http://wiki.debian.org/sudo http://www.aplawrence.com/Basics/sudo.html |
| 02:34.13 | thenorili | @OSP10, /dev/sda6 => /, /dev/sda9 => /dev/sda9 => /home, /dev/sda11 => /usr/local, /dev/sda7 => /var, /dev/sda12 => /tmp |
| 02:34.50 | thenorili | What I've given are the partition names and the mount points they're associated with. |
| 02:35.11 | OSP10 | ok i just did that |
| 02:35.18 | thenorili | ????????? |
| 02:35.22 | urxtnw | Can anyone tell me how Ubuntu sets up the password under the hood? I have a username and a password, correct? I am not root, but Ubuntu puts my username in etc/sudoers ? |
| 02:35.26 | thenorili | stop pasting things into your terminal |
| 02:35.30 | thenorili | jesus |
| 02:35.32 | OSP10 | i didnt paste it |
| 02:35.35 | urxtnw | When I set up debian for the first time, how do I do this to mimmick it? |
| 02:35.38 | OSP10 | i just told you all my partitions |
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| 02:35.42 | OSP10 | before someone pasted a wall of text |
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| 02:35.54 | thenorili | You haven't told me your *mount points* though |
| 02:36.00 | OSP10 | ig |
| 02:36.09 | OSP10 | they dont have mount points |
| 02:36.16 | OSP10 | except /dev/sda1 |
| 02:36.28 | thenorili | @urxtnw, go to 'users' and add yourself as admin |
| 02:36.47 | thenorili | I think I needed to do a trick where I added a new user to get the GUI for making users admin to pop up |
| 02:36.57 | thenorili | alternatively you could just go to /etc/sudoers and put your name there |
| 02:36.58 | OSP10 | except /dev/sda1 ntfs *mount point*=/media/user/usbdata |
| 02:37.01 | urxtnw | thenorili, but what is the safest way? |
| 02:37.06 | terr__ | OSP10, likely that was me. |
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| 02:37.12 | thenorili | either of those are safe ways |
| 02:37.34 | urxtnw | thenorili, so when debian asks me to set a root password, should it be the same as my user password? |
| 02:37.37 | OSP10 | im running this off a laptop with no harddrive |
| 02:37.41 | thenorili | @urxtnw, no |
| 02:38.00 | thenorili | @OSP10, okay so to start out $ umount /dev/sda1 |
| 02:38.00 | OSP10 | just a usb with a debian based os with a persistent partition |
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| 02:38.15 | terr__ | urxtnw, it can be - I have mine set up that way - but I am not interested in security right now. |
| 02:38.36 | thenorili | also umount everything else you've mounted. umount proc, umount /dev, umount /sys |
| 02:38.36 | urxtnw | thenorili, terr__ so how does Ubuntu do it then? does it have no root password? |
| 02:39.17 | thenorili | @urxtnw, Ubuntu has the root account locked by default. |
| 02:39.30 | thenorili | all you have is a user account with admin privs |
| 02:39.43 | terr__ | urxtnw, I tried ubuntu - puked and went back to Debian. I presume the same way - but there are a few different methods. I use good old /etc/passwd. Its encrypted adn stored in there |
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| 02:40.11 | OSP10 | command not found |
| 02:40.20 | urxtnw | thenorili, how is it locked? can't you access it? if they do that by default dont THEY have access to it and can ssh into my machine? |
| 02:40.30 | urxtnw | this is what I am confused about |
| 02:40.36 | OSP10 | dammit |
| 02:40.43 | thenorili | it's locked as in there's not a root account |
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| 02:41.10 | thenorili | it's just a type of account you don't have rn |
| 02:41.12 | terr__ | urxtnw, you should be able to check /etc/passwd for the users. Just reset the superuser password. And I just did it a few days ago and already I forgot how. |
| 02:41.23 | thenorili | you can bring it into existence by making it with admin privileges |
| 02:41.47 | thenorili | @OSP10, check your spelling and try 'umount' again |
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| 02:42.07 | thenorili | you have to do proc, sys, and dev BEFORE /dev/sda1 |
| 02:42.12 | thenorili | then, start over again |
| 02:42.13 | urxtnw | thenorili, and what about debian, when it asks me for root password, what if I leave it blank at installation? |
| 02:42.23 | thenorili | then the password is a null string |
| 02:42.49 | urxtnw | so in debian you are forced to make the root user? |
| 02:42.58 | thenorili | YES JESUS |
| 02:43.16 | thenorili | @OSP10, your first command is now $ mount -t NTFS /dev/sda1 /mnt |
| 02:43.26 | urxtnw | haha, just wondering, this russian dude on youtube said if you leave it blank, you will get sudo like in Ubuntu |
| 02:44.01 | terr__ | urxtnw, just set it to your user password - you can change it later |
| 02:44.27 | terr__ | urxtnw, that is what I would do |
| 02:44.32 | LtL | urxtnw: the russian is correct. |
| 02:44.38 | thenorili | then $ mount -t proc none /mnt/proc && mount -o bind /dev /mnt/dev && mount -o bnind /sys /mnt/sys && cp /etc/resolv.conf /mnt/etc/resolv.conf |
| 02:44.52 | urxtnw | LtL, so what happens actually? the root account is locked like in Ubuntu? |
| 02:45.21 | thenorili | 'locked' is a weird term for 'not in use' |
| 02:45.36 | LtL | urxtnw: it's merely disabled, fix it with 'sudo passwd root' |
| 02:46.04 | urxtnw | great, thank you! |
| 02:47.50 | urxtnw | terr__, may I ask, why did you "puke" |
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| 02:49.42 | terr__ | urxtnw, I am a developer - programmer - and I hate admin. I do it because I have to - and I am not very good at it. Ubuntu came without ANY development tools. Like it was stripped! It didn't even have emacs |
| 02:50.26 | terr__ | none of the gcc tools were there |
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| 02:51.47 | urxtnw | terr__, when did you try it? they are there now (I am not advocating for it) but yeah it makes sense. |
| 02:52.24 | urxtnw | terr__, by admin you mean basically nursing the computer and taking care of it? like Arch Linux/gentoo users do? |
| 02:52.26 | thenorili | I like admin way too much lmao |
| 02:52.46 | thenorili | it feels like my whole life is devops |
| 02:53.22 | thenorili | it's literally too much fun, I need to take more time for development |
| 02:53.27 | terr__ | thenorili, I still have to get debian-10.blah installed. But I'm chatting right now. Its called work avoidance. |
| 02:53.50 | thenorili | I wish I could be your sysadmin ; _ ; |
| 02:54.11 | thenorili | I'd maintain such good workstations |
| 02:54.12 | terr__ | thenorili, we should team up - you do the admin and I'll play with cross compiling into arduino and Raspberry pi. |
| 02:54.15 | epony | There are two types of people, one who understand the hardware operation and the electronics design, and one who do not. This separation between developer and system operator means one thing only, you're neither. |
| 02:54.35 | thenorili | lol don't be silly |
| 02:54.41 | terr__ | thenorili, I have hired sysadmins on the net before. It worked well. |
| 02:54.53 | thenorili | sysadmin is nothing like development |
| 02:55.15 | terr__ | epony, I agree. One foot in each of two canoes. Easy to get wet |
| 02:55.20 | thenorili | like, have you heard of this thing called a 'compiler' |
| 02:55.45 | thenorili | man I'd love to work out some way to remote sysadmin for people |
| 02:55.51 | terr__ | thenorili, and on which of the like 13 different operating systems I have worked on? |
| 02:56.07 | thenorili | lol right |
| 02:56.07 | terr__ | thenorili, well talk to me. |
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| 02:57.45 | epony | yeah, no, the point is, you're wrong to separate development from systems work because they are integral to each other, otherwise you're programming something you don't understand or managing something you can't program |
| 02:58.54 | thenorili | lol that's some real black and white thinking man |
| 02:58.57 | terr__ | thenorili, lets see: IBM 360 - MVS/DOS, 370 VM/CMS, TSO, HP3000, TI 990, Vax 11/70, 11/780, Prime, perkin elmer, sun, pc dos, OS/2, pc, NT, now GCC on OpenBSD and Linux, and soon Raspberry pi and Arduino (which will be cross compilers) |
| 02:59.02 | epony | either way you're wet and sinking without basic understanding of both areas of computing (or more if you so like to distinct fields and microspecialise losing reality and hardware understanding) |
| 02:59.17 | thenorili | the whole point of a compiler is to separate machine code from the programmer |
| 02:59.34 | epony | no, the point is to create reusability |
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| 02:59.43 | thenorili | Nope |
| 02:59.46 | epony | you're absolutely clueless with this separation |
| 03:00.12 | thenorili | I'm telling you, Grace Hopper made a compiler so that people could write programs without needing to understand machine code |
| 03:00.28 | terr__ | thenorili, I have also programmer assembler on 4 of those machines. |
| 03:00.30 | thenorili | A course I'm taking rn, it's a little famous, it's called Structure & Interpretation of Computer Programs, out of MIT |
| 03:00.48 | OSP10 | mount point /media/user/usbdata |
| 03:00.51 | thenorili | In the first course it explains that **black box abstraction** is a core concept of programming |
| 03:00.57 | thenorili | @OSP10, I don't want you to mount it there |
| 03:01.03 | thenorili | I want you to umount it and mount it on /mnt |
| 03:01.05 | OSP10 | its mounted there by default |
| 03:01.06 | thenorili | come back when you do that |
| 03:01.08 | thenorili | umount it then |
| 03:01.12 | thenorili | idc about the default |
| 03:01.12 | OSP10 | why |
| 03:01.14 | terr__ | thenorili, if you want to work with COBOL apparently the GOvernment of Canada has some shit systems. |
| 03:01.17 | thenorili | Because I said so |
| 03:01.24 | OSP10 | lol |
| 03:01.34 | urxtnw | what is COBOL? |
| 03:01.34 | thenorili | and because if you can't do that then you can't fkn mount something properly |
| 03:01.41 | epony | tell someone else, what you call development separated from computer management is crapplication programming without undestanding the system, standards and hardware |
| 03:01.49 | thenorili | please follow the directions then come back |
| 03:01.55 | thenorili | anyways |
| 03:02.01 | epony | also this is not the 80ies, so that preaching is dated and simply inappropriate |
| 03:02.16 | terr__ | Grace Hopper's creation (read mess) |
| 03:02.17 | thenorili | In the first course of SICP, they explain that black box abstraction is a core concept of all programming languages |
| 03:02.22 | epony | programming is systems programming, the rest is wankery |
| 03:02.34 | epony | also known as life in a dumb appication |
| 03:02.45 | epony | which reality is not |
| 03:03.06 | thenorili | like, every programming language has means to take some function and put a box around it so you don't have to understand what's going on inside that box |
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| 03:03.38 | terr__ | thenorili, theory - in practice its a way to get a job done quickly. C for instance is very close to the hardware and now the instruction sets are designed to complement the language |
| 03:03.43 | thenorili | you don't need to understand every opcode and every line of assembly in the linux kernel to install a linux box and make a computer program that says 'hello world' |
| 03:04.03 | thenorili | Yeah C and Rust are 'low level' programming languages sure |
| 03:04.10 | thenorili | but you don't need to know assembly to code in C or Rust |
| 03:04.20 | thenorili | they *abstract* that complexity away to a lower level |
| 03:04.21 | epony | actually you |
| 03:04.50 | terr__ | thenorili, and COBOL has Packed and Zoned decimal - C does not. And I have listened to programmer tell me one does not even need to know the number types. |
| 03:04.54 | epony | do have to know the processor architecture and assembly that way you will be able to understand what you're doing in C and other C like languages |
| 03:05.24 | thenorili | you don't need to know the full nuance of the complexity of it tho |
| 03:05.29 | thenorili | that's *the whole point* |
| 03:05.40 | terr__ | you need to know because if you need to get something done you might actually have to poke some registers or something. |
| 03:05.42 | thenorili | it abstracts that complexity away |
| 03:06.16 | thenorili | that's the beauty of programming |
| 03:06.28 | epony | maybe you can live by without poking into the compiler, but you will suck at any programming language if you do not know how computers work, and you will hate system administration because you're clueless of the system and how to program it, you want your rosy life in a platform niche somewhere and everything to work because other people do the other work for you |
| 03:06.38 | thenorili | if you've tricked yourself into thinking you can understand the full complexity of the machine you're using, you're probably not |
| 03:06.50 | thenorili | err, you're probably a bit deluded rather |
| 03:07.05 | thenorili | there's just too many moving parts in 2020 |
| 03:07.36 | thenorili | Your sweeping statements are ignorant to the core |
| 03:07.41 | epony | until you're put to the job in a company where you have to know everything and you will realise you've been suddenly institutionalised your whole work life and know jack nothing about what's going on under and outside your application |
| 03:07.52 | epony | that will be valid in 2030 and 2050 too |
| 03:07.59 | thenorili | You don't need to know how a gun operates to fire it |
| 03:08.07 | thenorili | you don't need to know how a gun operates to fire it well, even |
| 03:08.47 | thenorili | if you're in a situation where there's someone else to clean and maintain your weapon, you may not ever have to learn the *full nuanced complexity* of the internals of a firearm |
| 03:08.54 | epony | so, you can start quoting years from 1970 by one if you want to make it even more time specific, all the years it's the same principle, clueless people do not understand the system and live in an application, all knowing people like every aspect of it and can do most of what clueless people whine about |
| 03:09.14 | thenorili | over time, it's probably wise to learn a few tricks yakno |
| 03:09.38 | epony | especially quoting analogies that you misquote about canucks and wettity |
| 03:09.39 | petn-randall | tinfoil-hat: That is really peculiar. It might be that support for user services was not fully implemented in buster's systemd. I'd check that first. |
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| 03:11.09 | thenorili | idk man your ranting seems increasingly delusional and it didn't start out great |
| 03:11.24 | terr__ | clearly some ppl need a break sometimes. LOL. If you want a job where you don't need to know anything - work for the Canadian Tax Department - they apparently can't even print out correct cheques |
| 03:11.35 | thenorili | dividing humanity into 'the all knowing' and 'the clueless' is a bit radical lol |
| 03:11.49 | epony | whining about sysadmin work too |
| 03:11.56 | OSP10 | alrighty |
| 03:12.03 | terr__ | 'the clueless' are the great unwashed public |
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| 03:12.40 | thenorili | the black and white thinking falls apart under any scrutiny |
| 03:12.41 | OSP10 | when i ran mount -t NTFS /dev/sda1 /mnt it said /mnt: unknown filesystem type 'NTFS' |
| 03:12.50 | terr__ | epony, sysadmin work is significantly different than programming. |
| 03:12.52 | OSP10 | so i ran it again with NTFS but lowercase |
| 03:13.00 | petn-randall | !ot |
| 03:13.00 | dpkg | #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. |
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| 03:13.19 | OSP10 | then i simply typed mount |
| 03:13.28 | terr__ | OSP10, looks like we are going back to work. :-) |
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| 03:13.30 | OSP10 | and it didnt show up |
| 03:13.32 | thenorili | erm |
| 03:13.42 | epony | actually clueless is anyone whose job title and specification requires understanding they demonstrate to lack and say it like it's a point to be proud of.. while it's some form of admitting helplessness and insisting upon it, those are clueless points and losing people in the long run to more skilled and better knowledgable and skilled folk |
| 03:13.43 | thenorili | you simply typed 'mount'? |
| 03:13.47 | OSP10 | mount |
| 03:13.51 | OSP10 | and pressed the enter key |
| 03:13.52 | petn-randall | Please move general discussion over sysadmin life to #debian-offtopic. Thanks. :) |
| 03:13.54 | OSP10 | which shows everything mounted |
| 03:14.11 | thenorili | The uppercase thing I left in there intentionally lol, I caught it before I sent it. |
| 03:14.14 | epony | terr__, like you have the knowledge to pronounce on that.. by the said previously comments |
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| 03:15.51 | thenorili | you're leaving me on tenterhooks OSP, so you checked what you had mounted |
| 03:16.04 | epony | while you probably meant it's dicomforting for you and you lack integration and system quality of manageability and system operator fluency enhancing tools, which should be your primary goal as a developer which you choose to not even acknowledge but condemn as something to hate and think other people will have to hate it too so you don't laugh at that? |
| 03:16.13 | OSP10 | too many fucking people chatting in here i cant keep up |
| 03:16.26 | thenorili | yeah ignore them |
| 03:16.31 | petn-randall | epony: Please move this general discussion over to #debian-offtopic, thanks. |
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| 03:16.48 | epony | no problem |
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| 03:19.37 | OSP10 | so yea |
| 03:19.50 | OSP10 | after running that command it doesnt show up when i run mount |
| 03:19.52 | OSP10 | to check |
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| 03:20.21 | OSP10 | im not getting help in the channel that was made for this custom version of debian |
| 03:20.21 | petn-randall | OSP10: Did you get any output with `-t ntfs`? |
| 03:20.29 | OSP10 | ugh |
| 03:20.39 | petn-randall | OSP10: Oh, what OS are you running? |
| 03:20.53 | OSP10 | oh |
| 03:21.04 | OSP10 | i see that when i CD to root it works |
| 03:21.20 | thenorili | cool |
| 03:21.27 | OSP10 | Mount is denied because the NTFS volume is already exclusively opened. |
| 03:21.28 | OSP10 | The volume may be already mounted, or another software may use it which |
| 03:21.28 | OSP10 | could be identified for example by the help of the 'fuser' command. |
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| 03:21.38 | OSP10 | but i just unmounted it lol |
| 03:21.44 | OSP10 | lets try that again |
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| 03:21.53 | thenorili | in the future, use 'df -h' to read disks mounted instead of 'mount' |
| 03:21.57 | petn-randall | OSP10: Which OS are you running? |
| 03:22.03 | OSP10 | parrot |
| 03:22.05 | thenorili | or 'fdisk -l' |
| 03:22.07 | petn-randall | !parrot |
| 03:22.07 | dpkg | Parrot Linux is a distribution based on <testing> for security experts, developers and privacy aware people. It is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Support can be found in #parrotsec on Freenode or the community pages https://docs.parrotlinux.org/community. Ask me about <based on debian> and <parrot-overnight>. If you are new to linux, try using Debian: http://www.debian.org. |
| 03:22.36 | thenorili | Anyways, now you know the correct command. Give it another shot, cowboy. |
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| 03:22.46 | thenorili | mount everything up |
| 03:22.54 | petn-randall | OSP10: It seems like your problem was solved. For the future try their support channel. We don't support derivatives in #debian. |
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| 03:23.07 | OSP10 | is that my cue to "go away" petn-randall ? |
| 03:23.18 | thenorili | Their issue has nothing to do with derivatives |
| 03:23.33 | petn-randall | If you can reproduce the issue within Debian, you're welcome to ask for support here. |
| 03:23.41 | thenorili | they've been struggling through executing a chroot for idk three hours |
| 03:23.41 | oerheks | OSP10, parrot has its own issues. |
| 03:23.55 | OSP10 | parrot home not parrotsec |
| 03:24.10 | thenorili | Parrot problems have nothing to do with this, it's still basic troubleshooting |
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| 03:24.28 | petn-randall | It's just that Parrot is usually creeping with bugs that were fixed in testing for a long time, as they lag behind testing somewhat. |
| 03:24.30 | thenorili | fsck, chroot => apt update && apt upgrade && apt --fix-broken |
| 03:24.35 | OSP10 | i have the version without the pentesting tools |
| 03:24.43 | thenorili | yeah, their issue has nothing to do with that |
| 03:24.51 | thenorili | they're just a lil green around the ears |
| 03:24.55 | terr__ | OSP10, have you checked that you have no other users working in the partition? pwd? Pretty easy to miss that - I did |
| 03:25.04 | thenorili | it's a usb drive |
| 03:25.13 | petn-randall | thenorili: That's irrelevant. There's also ##linux for general Linux support. #debian is not such thing. |
| 03:25.47 | thenorili | fair enough, seven of nine |
| 03:26.06 | OSP10 | ran command users, came output was user user |
| 03:26.35 | petn-randall | thenorili: TBF, we don't want to assimilate other derivatives, so this comparison doesn't work. |
| 03:26.39 | thenorili | i think the admin is tired of hearing your voice lol |
| 03:26.43 | thenorili | i'm not insulting you |
| 03:26.49 | OSP10 | i can see that |
| 03:26.50 | thenorili | i respect & admire seven of nine |
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| 03:27.03 | OSP10 | alright |
| 03:27.08 | OSP10 | i guess ill look elsewhere for help |
| 03:27.11 | OSP10 | thank you for your time |
| 03:27.14 | thenorili | Just do the chroot and apt update man |
| 03:27.21 | thenorili | you've been trying to do it for like three hours |
| 03:27.25 | petn-randall | OSP10: ##linux is a good source, if #parrotsec doesn't work. |
| 03:27.36 | OSP10 | that will fix my persistent partition? |
| 03:27.38 | thenorili | you just managed to mount your root partition finally |
| 03:27.43 | thenorili | that's basic troubleshooting |
| 03:27.45 | OSP10 | it was something i installed that broke the desktop |
| 03:27.49 | OSP10 | a theme or something |
| 03:27.59 | petn-randall | #justparrotthings |
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| 03:28.17 | thenorili | idk what is the answer is i'm not a fortune teller |
| 03:28.19 | tails | why does gimp-help-common and -sv recieve updates and not the entire gimp for one apt upgrade cycle? |
| 03:28.37 | Loloka | How to add debian's repos to another debian-based machine? |
| 03:28.42 | thenorili | basic troubleshooting is fsck then chroot apt update apt upgrade apt --fix-broken then reset to backup |
| 03:28.47 | petn-randall | tails: I'm guessing they're different source packages. |
| 03:28.53 | Loloka | all ports except 443 and 80 are blocked |
| 03:28.57 | thenorili | @Loloka, copy your sources.list |
| 03:28.58 | petn-randall | !frankendebian |
| 03:28.58 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 03:29.01 | petn-randall | Loloka: ^^^ |
| 03:29.21 | petn-randall | Loloka: Short answer is you shouldn't. |
| 03:29.22 | Loloka | that machine doesn't know debians keys, so I dunno how to install them |
| 03:29.37 | Loloka | repos from the box suck |
| 03:29.38 | thenorili | google the keys |
| 03:29.45 | Loloka | and? |
| 03:29.52 | thenorili | then add them? |
| 03:29.56 | Loloka | how? |
| 03:30.09 | thenorili | they'll show you when you google them |
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| 03:30.38 | petn-randall | Loloka: You understand that you're likely breaking your system if you do that, right? |
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| 03:31.17 | tails | hmmm you could put in in /etc/apt/sourced.list.d/debian.list |
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| 03:31.38 | tails | make a small script that creates that file with contents In the script |
| 03:31.48 | tails | then installs what you want then delete the file |
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| 03:32.16 | tails | sounds terrible as it suggests you can reuse it to install multiple times it too much |
| 03:32.30 | petn-randall | Eh? That's a horrible solution. |
| 03:32.31 | Loloka50 | so I was kicked or something |
| 03:32.56 | tails | virtual machine of debian. |
| 03:33.20 | petn-randall | Loloka, Loloka50, no, you're connected twice. |
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| 03:35.28 | tails | ok so how do I make a debian kernel image? in my situation I need just one thing from the kernel and that's Intel VT-g in the i915 graphics driver |
| 03:35.39 | tails | Debian doesn't have that flipped on in their kernel |
| 03:35.45 | OSP10 | just curious.. what does it mean when my terminal line changes from [root@parrot]-[/desktop] to [x]-[root@parrot]-[/desktop] |
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| 03:35.51 | tails | i mean a debian package of kernel |
| 03:35.53 | OSP10 | what is the x? |
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| 03:36.11 | OSP10 | execute?? |
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| 03:38.49 | thenorili | stop getting distracted and go do yr chroot |
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| 03:42.11 | tails | tails@tails-pc:~/other/linux-5.4.13$ make bindeb-pkg -j3 |
| 03:42.26 | tails | ok its compiling |
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| 03:46.55 | petn-randall | OSP10: Stop asking in the wrong channel. |
| 03:47.07 | petn-randall | OSP10: No idea, that's a parrot thing. Debian doesn't have that. |
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| 03:49.39 | petn-randall | thenorili, OSP10, feel free to move this discussion to ##linux or #parrotsec. |
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| 03:52.20 | OSP10 | yes my lord |
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| 03:56.44 | timothywcrane | Test |
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| 04:36.46 | terr__ | I am looking at the buster liveCD. Yes _ can burn it to a CD and I can copy it to a USB and boot it. But - I have stretch running and I should be able to do the install onto a new HDD using stretch. Since I am not familiar with what is on the CD - and I am looking in the /install directory - what am I looking for? I have also looked in isolinux. I think all I need are the kernel images which should be vmlinuz-blah |
| 04:37.20 | tarzeau | !debootstrap |
| 04:37.20 | dpkg | debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system, ask me about <install guide>. http://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap https://debian-administration.org/article/426/Installing_new_Debian_systems_with_debootstrap |
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| 04:41.38 | terr__ | tarzeau, I've done that. I now need to make it bootable because debootstrap does not copy any kernels and there is nothing done with grub. I do not have grub on the target drive - I"m getting an error and it might be because there is not kernel. if so - the error message is totally misleading. |
| 04:42.00 | tarzeau | terr__: i've got that to fix grub/kernels: http://www.aiei.ch/gnustep/install.txt |
| 04:42.11 | tarzeau | it might be a bit updated but you'll figure :) |
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| 04:43.55 | terr__ | tarzeau, thanx |
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| 04:44.27 | terr__ | bbl |
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| 04:53.40 | tails | good now Linux can evolve into a roach |
| 04:54.17 | tails | i forgot to feed Linux |
| 04:56.47 | tails | sputnik: get out of the solar system! your baking Linux! |
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| 05:18.20 | quarterback_ | smartctl doesn't work on debian buster even after installing smartmontools. |
| 05:19.00 | quarterback_ | I installed smartmontools according to this - https://www.lisenet.com/2014/using-smartctl-smartd-and-hddtemp-on-debian/ |
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| 05:22.33 | tarzeau | quarterback_: https://bugs.debian.org/smartmontools ? |
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| 05:26.14 | quarterback_ | tarzeau, This command doesn't work - smartctl -a /dev/sda |
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| 05:27.07 | quarterback_ | bash: smartctl: command not found |
| 05:27.22 | jm_ | !command not found |
| 05:27.23 | dpkg | Have you tried running the command as root? If it still is not found, try apt-get install <commandname>. Solves some problems. see 'hdii' |
| 05:27.29 | tarzeau | quarterback_: works for me |
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| 05:27.44 | quarterback_ | Yes, runnning as root |
| 05:27.46 | tarzeau | quarterback_: try with /usr/sbin/smartctl -a /dev/sda ? |
| 05:27.46 | jm_ | do you have smartmontools package installed? |
| 05:27.59 | tarzeau | Smartctl open device: /dev/sda failed: Permission denied |
| 05:28.08 | tarzeau | obviously, i wouldn't let my users read /dev/sda |
| 05:28.19 | quarterback_ | tarzeau, /usr/sbin/smartctl -a /dev/sda command works. |
| 05:28.20 | tarzeau | you could right away hand out your root password |
| 05:28.28 | tarzeau | quarterback_: as root, as user not |
| 05:28.38 | tarzeau | just as it should be. so where's your problem? |
| 05:28.39 | jm_ | are you using su? |
| 05:28.48 | tarzeau | me? |
| 05:28.52 | quarterback_ | tarzeau, if I dont give the path /usr/sbin/.. it doesn't work |
| 05:28.56 | jm_ | sorry, quarterback_ |
| 05:29.22 | quarterback_ | tarzeau, how to detect path of smartctl automatically? |
| 05:29.41 | tarzeau | quarterback_: i don't, i just run stuff as root if it's supposed to be run as root |
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| 05:29.50 | jm_ | quarterback_: how do you execute it as root? |
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| 05:30.17 | quarterback_ | jm_, Just type smartctl instead of /usr/sbin/smartctl ? I think the second is the procedure? |
| 05:30.23 | jm_ | quarterback_: how did you become root? |
| 05:30.43 | quarterback_ | jm_, This is my pc, so I am root. |
| 05:31.17 | jm_ | quarterback_: wait, are you saying you login as root and do all tasks as root? surely you use your regular user for normal tasks |
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| 05:32.17 | tarzeau | didn't learn cutting bread with a plastic knife |
| 05:32.34 | jm_ | the reason I am asking is if you use su to become root, it changed with buster |
| 05:32.47 | quarterback_ | jm_, Yes, the regular user is for normal tasks. I login as root only for installing and removing software. |
| 05:33.08 | quarterback_ | jm_, Yes, I have to type su -l ? |
| 05:33.14 | jm_ | quarterback_: yes |
| 05:33.16 | jm_ | !buster su |
| 05:33.16 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 05:33.19 | jm_ | see above |
| 05:33.32 | quarterback_ | jm_, Thanks |
| 05:33.36 | jm_ | no problem |
| 05:33.44 | quarterback_ | Somebody told this before. I have forgotten. |
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| 05:50.48 | fuxxy | ugh, 176GB over 1GiE sucks. |
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| 05:54.02 | tarzeau | fuxxy: ack! get 10gbit |
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| 05:55.57 | sponix2ipfw | fuxxy: rsync and a night's rest |
| 05:56.51 | tarzeau | fuxxy: the 176 GB are already xz compressed? |
| 05:57.27 | tarzeau | http://bootes.ethz.ch/petitRADTRANS/ |
| 05:57.29 | tarzeau | i've got these 200 GB compressed down to 128 GB with xz: |
| 05:59.15 | jm_ | hopefully with pxz, or better yet, perhaps consider switching to zstd |
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| 06:13.09 | Teljkon | whats the recomended IRC client for Debian? |
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| 06:13.47 | thenorili | @Teljkon, that's not rly how linux software works lol. |
| 06:13.52 | jm_ | just use whatever you prefer, there are too many to single out just one |
| 06:13.56 | JackFrost | You'll likely get different answers from different people. Irssi or weechat if you like the terminal/ncurses, hexchat if you use GTK, then kvirc/quassel/konvi for Qt. |
| 06:14.12 | Teljkon | JackFrost i was counting on that! |
| 06:14.38 | Teljkon | whats GTK |
| 06:15.35 | thenorili | ok google what is gtk |
| 06:15.44 | thenorili | ok google linux irc clients debian |
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| 06:16.26 | thenorili | ok google what is ncurses && ok google what is Qt |
| 06:17.03 | thenorili | this is a technical support channel, not duckduckdebian.com |
| 06:17.29 | Teljkon | Thenorili do we not come here to talk about computers in general though? |
| 06:17.34 | thenorili | we do not |
| 06:17.38 | thenorili | #debian-offtopic |
| 06:18.05 | Teljkon | thenorili so what do you guys hand out support tickets here or something like that? |
| 06:18.56 | thenorili | idk come back with a debian technical issue sometime and maybe you'll find out |
| 06:19.17 | thenorili | in the meantime, maybe try ##linux or #computers |
| 06:20.06 | rudi_s | Teljkon: Don't be discouraged by the "harsh" tone. The goal is to keep the channel focused on technical questions. |
| 06:20.54 | netvixtra | at least someone does actually answer you when you ask for a irc client, but when the going gets tough noone has a answer |
| 06:21.09 | nkuttler | Teljkon: irssi |
| 06:22.01 | Teljkon | Hmm you and I have a different definition of what a technical issue is. |
| 06:22.31 | jm_ | let's not get dragged into that discussion |
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| 06:23.43 | rudi_s | But yeah, I'd consider the question "irc clients in debian?" to be on-topic here. |
| 06:23.56 | Nintenuendo | why be so elitist? what did it get you to frown on a simple irc client question? |
| 06:24.29 | Nintenuendo | you have to get over yourself and calm down |
| 06:24.54 | Nintenuendo | your mindset is askewed |
| 06:25.32 | Teljkon | Nintenuendo right! |
| 06:25.32 | Nintenuendo | in answer to the question, i use hexchat through znc |
| 06:25.51 | dudz | tty weechat through znc here |
| 06:26.10 | Teljkon | thanks for the TIPs guys anyone else want to chime in. |
| 06:26.14 | Teljkon | LoL |
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| 06:27.03 | Nintenuendo | :) |
| 06:27.42 | Teljkon | maybe he is logging for a security firm and is tired of his bot picking up IRC client recommendations! |
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| 06:30.01 | apassi | Hi, i had accident and i messed some of /bin & /usr/bin uid/gid/mode's, can i recreate them with dpkg somehow? |
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| 06:31.23 | jm_ | apassi: well naturally the answer is yes, the question is how to get the rid ones |
| 06:31.43 | Nintenuendo | ouch, this is why i docker everything i can heh |
| 06:32.44 | apassi | Nintenuendo: Yes i do it also, with ansible, but it seems that if you set "correct" variables to ansibles's file module, it starts to change the files from root |
| 06:33.06 | apassi | jm_: what do you mean to get rid ones ? |
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| 06:33.16 | jm_ | apassi: sorry, right ones* |
| 06:33.48 | Nintenuendo | ahh, you linked host image directory? but wouldn't the image need to run under sudo to do that? |
| 06:34.07 | Nintenuendo | you wernt doing that were you? with a -v'd /bin |
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| 06:34.18 | apassi | jm_: i can find the files which has wrong uid's, because the new user/group is my defined user, and find the correct apt packages with file names |
| 06:35.07 | apassi | Nintenuendo: I have physical host with has n-virtuabox, which has n- dockers |
| 06:35.35 | apassi | Nintenuendo: Now the physical host has wrong uids in some programs, because i was configuring backup system with ansible |
| 06:36.01 | apassi | Nintenuendo: there is some programs like sudo which require correct file modes and uid/gid |
| 06:36.20 | apassi | Nintenuendo: it is not a big mess, but i like to fix it. |
| 06:36.37 | jm_ | apassi: yeah, generate a list of packages, then for each one, dpkg-deb -c $pkg.deb will give you ownership and modes |
| 06:36.46 | Jim010 | hi. i need help switch auto login root to normal user please .im using armbian |
| 06:36.48 | apassi | jm_: Thank you |
| 06:38.03 | jm_ | from what I can see on my system it's all root:root and 755 anyway |
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| 06:39.28 | jm_ | Jim010: we only help with pure debian here, try #armbian |
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| 06:43.09 | netvixtra | hmm, debian stopped offering security updates through ftp? |
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| 06:45.08 | themill | ftp is a mess of a protocol and painful to deal with, so yes, ftp on mirrors run by debian stopped a while back |
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| 06:49.34 | apassi | jm_: looks like dpkg-deb does not fix the file modes? https://pastebin.com/aFd1S80b |
| 06:50.57 | jm_ | apassi: no, it tells you about them only, you can easily script it, alternative would be to reinstall all those packages |
| 06:51.20 | apassi | jm_: ah, i see. Ok thank yoo |
| 06:51.23 | apassi | jm_: ah, i see. Ok thank you |
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| 06:52.07 | jm_ | no problem |
| 06:52.25 | urxtnw | After I've installed debian and configured Gnome DE for my liking, gnome tweaks etc. will I ever have to do this again, even if I upgrade when Debian 11 comes out? |
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| 06:58.21 | netvixtra | themill: cant help watching ubuntu still offering it |
| 06:59.20 | themill | netvixtra: I care little. I'm not sure why they'd bother or why anyone would want to use it. |
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| 07:06.06 | netvixtra | themill: any other established protocols which are messed? :) |
| 07:06.59 | Teljkon | themill I used FTP as recently as 2013 maybe 2014 I didn't find Zftp to be all that bad there now Provide. I guess as long as too many users didn't jump ship its not a necessary thing with Tor and get etc but it didn't seem unwieldy to me at the time. |
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| 07:19.49 | apassi | jm_: problem solved. I found it to easy to run 'find / |grep wronguser', 'apt-file search packagename' and 'apt install --reinstall packagename' so many times that everything was fixed. |
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| 07:19.59 | apassi | now, goodbyt |
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| 08:15.26 | ZAJDAN | hi..is possible mount multiple directories into one point /mnt/attachments ? |
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| 08:17.57 | jm_ | ZAJDAN: yes, with some kind of union FS |
| 08:18.43 | ZAJDAN | jm_ this I hear first time |
| 08:19.04 | at0m | i remember copying stuff to a dir that wasn't mounted. then later it got mounted. got pretty messy. |
| 08:19.26 | at0m | mostly, confusing |
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| 08:20.49 | jm_ | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnionFS |
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| 08:21.17 | ZAJDAN | gonna look....thnx |
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| 08:45.14 | ratrace | ZAJDAN: what's your end goal? |
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| 08:47.36 | ZAJDAN | ratrace: (\\Server1\Attachments, \\Server2\Attachments) would like to mount both into /mnt/attachments |
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| 08:49.40 | ratrace | ZAJDAN: any chance of same fileNAME in both places? |
| 08:50.22 | ZAJDAN | retrace: not...each server has own marking of the files |
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| 08:50.36 | ratrace | 'aight. |
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| 09:00.28 | kambei86 | Hi guys, I have a problem with ufw... anyone can help me? |
| 09:00.49 | jm_ | !ask |
| 09:00.50 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
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| 09:03.25 | kambei86 | From the logs on boot I realized that the service did not start, I also tried to uninstall and reinstall the package and to rehabilitate ufw, but getting these errors (https://imgur.com/a/jfOsNN6) |
| 09:03.35 | kambei86 | The file user.rules is the default that ufw get when I install it: https://pastebin.com/Sdpu5NTa |
| 09:03.42 | countdr | kambei86: I use iptables. What do you mean service? |
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| 09:04.26 | kambei86 | the ufw service doesn't start at boot |
| 09:04.35 | kambei86 | so I tried $ sudo ufw enable |
| 09:04.45 | kambei86 | that enables the service and start it |
| 09:04.49 | kambei86 | but without success |
| 09:05.08 | kambei86 | ufw works with iptables |
| 09:05.23 | BazookaTooth | rehabilitate? |
| 09:05.43 | kambei86 | enable! |
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| 09:08.57 | BazookaTooth | you are not supposed to combine iptables with ufw |
| 09:09.38 | BazookaTooth | that's the entire point of ufw |
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| 09:10.29 | ratrace | BazookaTooth: that's not true, or else ufw wouldn't allow you to specify custom iptables rules. |
| 09:10.54 | kambei86 | ok, I don't know very well ufw and iptables but seems that ufw use iptables roules |
| 09:11.03 | ratrace | ufw is not omnipotent (no generic firewal solution is), thus raw iptables support is welcome in those suites. |
| 09:11.07 | BazookaTooth | yeah well, i'm guessing he did it wrong and now has a jacked up ruleset so have fun |
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| 09:12.58 | kambei86 | anyone that can help me to solve it? |
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| 09:13.28 | countdr | kambei86: Would you like help with iptables? |
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| 09:13.45 | ratrace | kambei86: what rules did you specifically set up? |
| 09:14.03 | kambei86 | I didn't set up any rule |
| 09:15.10 | ratrace | kambei86: which debian is that? |
| 09:15.39 | ZAJDAN | kambei86: Debian or which Linux? |
| 09:15.43 | kambei86 | when I install ufw and trying to enable it, I have these errors (https://imgur.com/a/jfOsNN6) |
| 09:15.49 | kambei86 | debian testing |
| 09:16.43 | kambei86 | but about these errors, the file user.rules (that it downloads and creates when I install the ufw package) is that https://pastebin.com/Sdpu5NTa |
| 09:16.48 | kambei86 | I don't changed anything |
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| 09:17.18 | ratrace | well if it doesn't work out of the box, you should report a bug. Also: |
| 09:17.21 | ratrace | !debian-next |
| 09:17.21 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
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| 09:18.01 | ZAJDAN | There is a /usr/share/ufw/check-requirements script that checks for everything needed for ufw |
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| 09:18.46 | kambei86 | I executed that script and I have passed all requirements |
| 09:19.41 | ZAJDAN | is not better use just pure iptables? |
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| 09:20.26 | ZAJDAN | sudo ufw status |
| 09:20.39 | kambei86 | inactive |
| 09:20.42 | ratrace | kambei86: try running this as root: ufw disable ; /lib/ufw/ufw-init flush-all ; ufw enable |
| 09:21.04 | ratrace | kambei86: one warning though, if you're doing this over ssh, it'll probably lock you out |
| 09:22.23 | kambei86 | no I'm not over ssh |
| 09:22.26 | ZAJDAN | ufw logging on |
| 09:22.45 | kambei86 | tried and when I doing ufw enable it gave me the same errors |
| 09:23.02 | ZAJDAN | maybe problem with ipv6 |
| 09:23.10 | ZAJDAN | https://serverfault.com/questions/957161/error-when-trying-to-enable-ufw-logs-on-ubuntu |
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| 09:23.51 | ZAJDAN | there speaks about same problem and via disabling the ipv6 has been solved |
| 09:23.54 | Dagger | you don't have to blame v6 for everything... |
| 09:24.18 | ratrace | and check-requirements would bark at lack of ipv6 support (which is unlikely anyway) |
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| 09:26.49 | ratrace | sounds like ufw is bugged. it's supposed to work out of the box upon installation and running 'ufw enable', with default rules which are minimal plumbing. if it doesn't, then it's broken and a bug should be filed. |
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| 09:26.58 | tarzeau | someone's got a copy of the dpkg db? http://rzlab.ucr.edu/~dpkg/ see https://wiki.debian.org/IRC/DpkgBot |
| 09:27.02 | kambei86 | ZAJDAN: if I turn off ipv6 I have the same error but only about user.roles and not user6.roles |
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| 09:27.56 | ratrace | kambei86: what's the output of iptables-restore --test /etc/ufw/user.rules ? |
| 09:28.21 | ZAJDAN | also do reboot |
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| 09:28.42 | ratrace | .... why .... |
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| 09:30.49 | kambei86 | ratrace: nothing |
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| 09:31.23 | ratrace | then there's no error in that file. can you pastebin iptables -L -n ? |
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| 09:31.48 | ZAJDAN | https://blog.kylemanna.com/linux/ufw-vps/ |
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| 09:32.23 | kambei86 | ratrace: https://pastebin.com/yEc9pnns |
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| 09:32.58 | ratrace | kambei86: is that an OpenVZ VPS? |
| 09:33.46 | _Arch4ngel | Make sure you meet all requirements, I've ran ufw over v4/v6 out of the box without any issues so far... UFW is written in Python and has Python as a dependency you might me missing a module or something that is causing to bug this way... |
| 09:33.57 | kambei86 | no, I installed minishift using libvirt, that created the other resources |
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| 09:36.48 | ratrace | kambei86: anyway, that user.rules file is a red herring. the problem is somewhere in ufw-init and how it's trying to prep the chains. can't help you more than this as I don't use ufw myself and don't really have time to go digging through its ufw-init script. it definitely sounds like a bug because it's failing upon installation :: assuming its check requirements passed for all entries |
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| 09:37.29 | jm_ | have you checked existing bug reports for ufw? |
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| 09:39.04 | kambei86 | jm_: no! but it worked a day ago. I don't know if I done something wrong in someway |
| 09:40.08 | kambei86 | ratrace: an advice, is better iptables alone or firewalld with a gui interface for a newbie user? |
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| 09:40.46 | ratrace | kambei86: it's better to start with tools like ufw and learn how to use iptables on your own, eventually ditching ufw :) |
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| 09:42.40 | ratrace | kambei86: although personally I'd suggest just go with iptables from the start. it's not complex to learn, there's many tutorials, and you can use the iptables-persistent package (part of netfilter-persisten dependency) to retain the state across reboots. |
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| 09:53.40 | n_1-c_k | Not nftables? Isn't that the cool new thing? |
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| 09:54.14 | ratrace | n_1-c_k: nftables sound like a passing fad since the kernel devs are really pining for bpf based firewall |
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| 09:54.40 | n_1-c_k | what, another one?! I can't keep up. |
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| 09:55.34 | ratrace | n_1-c_k: my point exaclty and why I'm sticking to iptables as long as it's in the kernel and doing its job :) and until they make up their mind |
| 09:55.50 | n_1-c_k | I see! |
| 09:56.35 | ratrace | bpf does make a lot of sense though. specially since pf in bpf stands for packet filtering =) |
| 09:57.32 | kambei86 | ratrace: thanks for the advices |
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| 10:01.04 | ratrace | linux kernel devs are endemic creatures. should be put in a zoo and protected from extinction. taking what's originally a network packet filter (bpf), extending it to ebpf, and implementing it for everything BUT network packet filtering. |
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| 10:03.36 | fredl | howdy |
| 10:04.21 | fredl | quick question on how others do this; HPA tftpd is configured by default to read from /srv/tftp |
| 10:04.39 | fredl | But the debian-installer packages install in /usr/lib/debian-installer |
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| 10:05.36 | fredl | HPA tftpd apparently does not allow symlinks outside its directory. For that reason in the past I have just copied /usr/lib/debian/installer/... to /srv/tftp |
| 10:05.57 | fredl | But... now I want to have both a debian 9 and debian 10 installer in parallel |
| 10:06.02 | fredl | which becomes... awkward |
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| 10:06.19 | fredl | What's an elegant solution for this that others may have used? |
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| 10:07.05 | fredl | coz this is kinda, a bit, clunky :) |
| 10:08.46 | fredl | I've been looking into ipxe, fai... |
| 10:08.46 | ratrace | fredl: you can specify "current" dir for tftpd with -s |
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| 10:09.39 | fredl | ratrace: in manpage it says |
| 10:09.48 | fredl | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:09.48 | fredl | <PROTECTED> |
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| 10:09.52 | fredl | you mean that one? |
| 10:09.56 | ratrace | yes |
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| 10:10.19 | fredl | Ok lemme read |
| 10:10.20 | fredl | tnx |
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| 10:11.20 | fredl | Oh... well that's not quite what I mean though, I mean that's similar to just changing TFTP_DIRECTORY in /etc/default/tftpd-hpa isn't it? |
| 10:11.53 | fredl | The way the debian-installer packages install... isn't really accomodating to that I believe |
| 10:12.41 | fredl | well unless I do something like -s /usr/lib/debian-installe or so |
| 10:12.59 | ratrace | fredl: then you posited your problem wrongly. you implied tftpd by default read files from different directory than the one you wanted |
| 10:13.26 | fredl | yes, as it does |
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| 10:13.59 | ratrace | fredl: I don't know how the installer fetches files, with absolute or relative paths. if it's relative paths, then yes, you need to specify "current" dir for tftpd with -s (or TFTP_DIRECTORY if that env var is used in the same way) |
| 10:14.27 | fredl | although now I wonder, hmm, /etc/default/tftpd-hpa does not belong to any package it seems according to dpkg -S so perhaps I created it myself long ago |
| 10:14.31 | ratrace | unless it already does -s by default via that env, in which case indeed you need to change it |
| 10:14.58 | fredl | 'some tutorial' probably specified /srv/tftpd as example |
| 10:15.23 | fredl | I probably did that decades ago and don't remember anymore :P |
| 10:16.14 | ratrace | /etc/default/... is typically used by init scripts and in some cases as environment for systemd services, but I think tftpd is inetd-launched thingy, thus look into how it interacts with that |
| 10:16.14 | fredl | well the installer.... hmmm it fetches files depending on what you put in the PXE files |
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| 10:16.32 | fredl | nah, not inetd anymore I think |
| 10:16.38 | fredl | tiny server process |
| 10:16.52 | fredl | I think later versions skipped the whole inetd stuff |
| 10:16.53 | ratrace | well it has as dep openbsd-inetd OR inet-superserver |
| 10:17.08 | fredl | Hmm, ok |
| 10:17.09 | ratrace | looking at the version in debian buster, that's supported here |
| 10:17.23 | fredl | Well I might be wrong, think I just read that on the Debian wiki page on PXE |
| 10:17.32 | ratrace | so you didn't even TRY using it? |
| 10:17.42 | fredl | inetd? |
| 10:17.49 | ratrace | tftpd |
| 10:17.57 | fredl | my tftp server works, has been for long time :) |
| 10:18.16 | fredl | Look, I had /srv/tftpd before |
| 10:18.22 | ratrace | oh wait, you're using the tftpd-hpa package, right? |
| 10:18.27 | fredl | yup |
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| 10:18.33 | ratrace | right right, that doesn't pull in inted |
| 10:18.36 | ratrace | *inetd |
| 10:19.06 | fredl | When I had one debian version installing through PXE, I just plain copied the files the debian-installer package holds into /srv/tftpd/debian-installer |
| 10:19.10 | fredl | no problem then :) |
| 10:19.25 | ratrace | right, so look at /etc/init.d/tftpd-hpa and how the env vars from /etc/default/... are used there |
| 10:19.44 | fredl | But when I symlink /srv/tftp/debian-installer to /usr/lib/debian-installer/blabla then it no longer works |
| 10:19.48 | fredl | that's all |
| 10:19.56 | fredl | I understand WHY |
| 10:20.07 | ratrace | fredl: that's why I'm suggesting you look how the vars are used. does it preset a default directory for --secure ? |
| 10:20.10 | fredl | but just looking for elegant solution to work with it |
| 10:20.35 | fredl | ah wait, check this: |
| 10:20.42 | fredl | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:20.54 | fredl | So it already uses -s (well --secure) |
| 10:21.14 | fredl | I'm wondering if I should try get it WITHOUT -s instead :P |
| 10:21.21 | fredl | maybe then it accepts the symlinks |
| 10:21.26 | ratrace | fredl: right. and how is the init script adding that /srv/tftp directory to the service call? |
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| 10:21.55 | fredl | Looks like this way: TFTP_OPTIONS="--secure --verbose" |
| 10:22.04 | fredl | So that's easy to give a try, lessee |
| 10:22.11 | ratrace | is it adding the $TFTP_DIRECTORY that it sourced from /etc/default/tftpd-hpa ? |
| 10:22.44 | fredl | yeah |
| 10:22.54 | ratrace | so change THAT in /etc/default/... |
| 10:23.21 | fredl | haha, I guess my English lacks that nuance, but I'm willing to do that BUT... |
| 10:23.36 | fredl | there's two Debian installer packages now: |
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| 10:23.56 | fredl | debian-installer-10-netboot-amd64 and debian-installer-9-netboot-amd64 |
| 10:24.04 | fredl | I want to be able to install BOTH |
| 10:24.55 | fredl | With ONE TFTPD_DIRECTORY and two debian-installer directories.... see my point now? :) |
| 10:24.59 | ratrace | fredl: then serve /usr/lib/debian/installer/ as top directory, specify WHICH subdir in your PXE config |
| 10:25.15 | fredl | Yeah that's what might be the most logical choice |
| 10:25.45 | fredl | But I'm bit of a puritan, if I do that, then also the PXE *config* files need to be in /usr/lib/debian-installer |
| 10:25.52 | fredl | 'n I don't like that |
| 10:26.03 | ratrace | fredl: alternatively drop --secure and use absolute paths? |
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| 10:26.19 | fredl | Yeah that seems the more elegant solution, gonna try that first |
| 10:26.37 | fredl | I'm kinda weirded out that I couldn't find anything on that subject on google |
| 10:26.50 | fredl | debian-installer folks must've thought about this I'd think |
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| 10:27.27 | ratrace | nah, it's just chrooted by default with --secure |
| 10:27.59 | ratrace | fredl: you can also bind-mount instead of symlinking. iirc that survives chroots |
| 10:28.29 | fredl | oh yeah there's much nice solutions than my old-skool approach, I know |
| 10:28.49 | fredl | in fact, directly booting installer from NFS is probably a lot better |
| 10:29.05 | fredl | I'm just stubborn :P |
| 10:29.06 | ratrace | sounds cleaner :) |
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| 10:29.16 | fredl | and old-fashioned :P |
| 10:29.50 | fredl | heck, in past I even used RARP instead of DHCP |
| 10:30.00 | fredl | but that's not possible anymore I guess |
| 10:30.25 | ratrace | I meant booting from NFS sounded cleaner :) |
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| 10:30.55 | Haohmaru | NFS sounds faster |
| 10:31.10 | fredl | yeah but the next guy would tell me to boot from Samba instead coz NFS might be 'obsolete' or something :) :) :) |
| 10:31.25 | fredl | I don't always flow with the popular flow |
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| 10:31.56 | fredl | Although I switched from old-school Mysql replication to Galera recently and that was a fucking blessing |
| 10:32.04 | ratrace | fredl: have you seen this? https://wiki.debian.org/PXEBootInstall |
| 10:32.14 | Haohmaru | when you come down here, you'll flowt too! >:) |
| 10:32.18 | fredl | yeah I have |
| 10:32.26 | fredl | (to the wiki) |
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| 10:32.45 | ratrace | so the author is unpacking stuff directly into /srv/tftp |
| 10:32.45 | fredl | NFS faste than Samba or faster than TFTP Haohmaru ? |
| 10:33.00 | Haohmaru | NFS = need for speed |
| 10:33.48 | fredl | ratrace, yeah I think that page must have been written before the debian-installer packages made it into the repos |
| 10:34.07 | fredl | LOL NFS is plenty fast |
| 10:34.35 | fredl | Try NFS 4.1 on some Netapp filers in a cluster |
| 10:34.49 | fredl | Buuuut I don't have Netapp $$$ |
| 10:35.42 | fredl | ratrace, I wondered about that wiki BTW and why the guy wgets the tars for the installer |
| 10:36.08 | fredl | That in itself led me to check if maybe symlinks aren't supported by tftpd in fact |
| 10:36.53 | ratrace | symlinks should be transparent to it, methinks the problem is in the defautl -s chroot |
| 10:36.57 | fredl | Anyhoo, I'm back to play |
| 10:37.08 | ratrace | chroots don't, definitely, support symlinks to/from outside of them |
| 10:37.32 | fredl | Well 'tis not a chroot although that's possible to configure as well |
| 10:38.00 | fredl | I guess it's really just an oldfashioned piece of junk like myself :P |
| 10:38.04 | ratrace | fredl: -s is chrooting |
| 10:38.41 | fredl | Oww! Yeah you're right, geez how'd I misread that |
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| 10:39.54 | fredl | and all this to try 'n play with kubernetes |
| 10:40.20 | fredl | which on earlier attempts looked like it might prove more difficulties than it's worth |
| 10:40.37 | fredl | anybody here running k8s on Debian? |
| 10:40.58 | fredl | I wasn't too thrilled to find out it likes me to turn off swap ffs |
| 10:41.19 | fredl | so that why I'm gonna do it on two VM's instead of my baremetal server |
| 10:41.29 | fredl | well, 3 VM's actually |
| 10:41.45 | ratrace | kates are really useful if you have very large "cloudy" workloads with hundreds of hosts you wanna balance the workload to. |
| 10:41.52 | fredl | But I'm getting a serious impression that k8s is seriously overhyped :( |
| 10:42.00 | ratrace | for 3 VM's, kates are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overkill |
| 10:42.23 | fredl | no no, I understood I need at least 3 machines to run kubernetes |
| 10:42.45 | fredl | And I just need it for learning purposes |
| 10:43.07 | fredl | I'm freelancer and any 'DevOps' job these days asks for Kubernetes |
| 10:43.18 | fredl | Well how am I to learn that if I don't have the experience |
| 10:43.29 | ratrace | right. |
| 10:43.31 | fredl | So that why I try to set it up myself on my own servers |
| 10:43.39 | fredl | Not coz I need it |
| 10:43.52 | fredl | Got enough servers as it is :P |
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| 10:44.21 | ratrace | however, the ADHD'd industry will change concepts, buzzwords, tools and hiring profiles too fast to have that experience worth the time |
| 10:44.58 | fredl | Of course most clients... when they ask for 'kubernetes expert' they really ask for someone who can type in kubeadm or something and from there on everything goes to their XYZ cloud |
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| 10:45.12 | fredl | LOL you're right |
| 10:45.26 | fredl | Docker is another one of those things they always ask for |
| 10:45.30 | ratrace | modern computing/cloud industry is run by CADT |
| 10:45.34 | fredl | Well, WTF is docker anyway |
| 10:45.54 | fredl | Just a POS with a big repository of cut dry thingies behind it |
| 10:46.14 | fredl | like Puppet, same thing |
| 10:46.23 | ratrace | also one badly maintained and thus very insecure and broken |
| 10:46.27 | fredl | Or Ansible Galaxy for that matter |
| 10:46.51 | ratrace | open source doesn't sell, so you have to wrap your "product" into fancy buzzwords and services and convince everyone they need it in the first place |
| 10:47.21 | ratrace | nothing bad with that, if you offer a truly unique and needed service, but majority of them ain't tht |
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| 10:47.29 | fredl | well yeah but go on interview with clubie fucking client and they'll present Puppet repo like best thing since sliced bread |
| 10:47.35 | ratrace | inb4 we're shoved into -offtopic :) |
| 10:47.50 | fredl | oh... yeah you're right, sorry about that :) |
| 10:48.54 | ratrace | I'd sooner shoot myself than having to go seek those places of employment. I work in a company that utilizes perfectly fine my "oldschool" sysadmining and doesn't require me to buzzword their palette of offerings. if that ever happens, I'll quit and go herd sheep on NZ |
| 10:49.17 | fredl | Well... |
| 10:49.33 | fredl | usually it's just getting past the wooly outer layers ya know |
| 10:49.51 | fredl | From recruiter -> HRM -> Manager -> techie, it's a long way |
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| 10:50.05 | ratrace | I did a lot of yak shaving in my day. I know how to deal with wooly outer layers :))) |
| 10:50.19 | fredl | I mean usually the Management is already completely clueless |
| 10:50.34 | fredl | Let alone HRM, and god forbid recruiters |
| 10:50.49 | ratrace | yeah, so good luck with your kates adventures :) |
| 10:50.57 | fredl | But then at the tech level you tend to find people knowing quite well what they're doing |
| 10:51.21 | fredl | Pff, I just need to pick up some buzzwords from the experience |
| 10:51.36 | fredl | Once you're in, it's easy to catch up usually |
| 10:52.06 | fredl | I mean FFS, who really needs a Kubernetes specialist who knows EVERYTHING there is to know about kubernetes? |
| 10:52.16 | fredl | I know NFS that's all I need :P |
| 10:52.30 | fredl | And now I really stop rambling, laterz |
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| 10:55.33 | ZAJDAN | can cifs show me remote folder without need to mount it? |
| 10:56.37 | jm_ | you can use smbclient for that |
| 10:56.54 | ZAJDAN | ok...right now I am doing it :_) |
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| 11:20.23 | yuriii | Hi! What's the best (most official) way of getting PHP >= 7.2 on stretch & jessie? |
| 11:20.43 | colo-work | upgrading to buster |
| 11:21.05 | yuriii | Good point! =) |
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| 11:22.57 | at0m | ,v php |
| 11:22.58 | judd | Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; bullseye: 2:7.3+69; buster: 2:7.3+69; sid: 2:7.3+69 |
| 11:23.22 | at0m | no backports it seems, so yea, buster.. |
| 11:23.47 | fredl | I would not recommend it anyway, maybe not even if backports were available |
| 11:23.48 | at0m | ,v php7.3 |
| 11:23.49 | judd | Package: php7.3 on amd64 -- buster: 7.3.11-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 7.3.11-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 7.3.12-1; sid: 7.3.12-1 |
| 11:23.59 | ratrace | then there's the sury repos.... |
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| 11:24.06 | Fox | yuriii: use sury backports |
| 11:24.11 | fredl | it tends to get very messy |
| 11:24.12 | ratrace | but those aren't official, just.... popular |
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| 11:24.28 | fredl | or I should say it *can* get very messy very easily |
| 11:24.33 | ratrace | indeed |
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| 11:24.52 | yuriii | Yep. I was thinking of sury. |
| 11:25.11 | Fox | ratrace: there's no official way to get php7.2 on stretch/jessie anyway :) |
| 11:25.15 | yuriii | Our users will still complain. =/ |
| 11:25.16 | fredl | if you have strong need for >= 7.2 one could argue you probably have strong need for buster too |
| 11:25.36 | fredl | and it's a fuckload safer |
| 11:25.48 | at0m | fredl: mind your language please |
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| 11:25.52 | ratrace | yuriii: should upgrade debian anyway, oldoldstable are barely maintained |
| 11:25.56 | fredl | oh... |
| 11:26.00 | fredl | LOL, ok |
| 11:26.24 | fredl | isn't at0m a bot? |
| 11:26.30 | at0m | !bots |
| 11:26.30 | dpkg | We have lots of bots around to help out with different things. dpkg (<dpkgbot>) and <judd> are the main two for factoids and package information; dselect (<dselectbot>) fills in for dpkg. There's also debhelper (flooding, moderating), apt, ... Most bots are also in #debian-bots if you can't use /msg to talk to them. Be nice to the bots though; they have feelings, bleed oil and let out the <magic smoke> when angry. |
| 11:27.01 | fredl | hihi sensorbots, those tends to make me look what's allowed and what isn't |
| 11:27.06 | at0m | fredl: no i am not. |
| 11:27.17 | at0m | fredl: network rules, family friendly |
| 11:27.24 | fredl | don't go all sentient on me! |
| 11:27.26 | ratrace | at0m is native intelligence fleshbot :) |
| 11:27.36 | fredl | skynet! |
| 11:27.37 | at0m | hugs ratrace |
| 11:28.03 | at0m | anyways, keep it family friendly here please. |
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| 11:28.18 | fredl | yeah no prob, tends to be just way I talk in RL tbh :P |
| 11:28.33 | yuriii | OK. Thanks, guys! |
| 11:28.36 | fredl | I guess I have non-standard family |
| 11:28.48 | yuriii | Same drill with ubuntu now. =) |
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| 11:28.54 | at0m | fredl: whatever |
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| 11:35.19 | fuxxy | Done with the original copy, recreated my raidz2 zvol, now I get to copy 22TB AGAIN! |
| 11:35.57 | colo-work | "this is my idea of fun" |
| 11:36.28 | SirPaddy | fuxxy: how do you spend the time waiting? |
| 11:36.33 | fuxxy | Host a storage node, they said. It'll be fun, they said. |
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| 11:37.02 | fuxxy | SirPaddy, I'm renovating a spare room into a craft room. |
| 11:37.08 | SirPaddy | heh |
| 11:38.58 | fredl | zvol? |
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| 11:39.28 | fredl | Didn't Linus urge against ZFS recently? ;) |
| 11:39.40 | fredl | haha had to laugh about that |
| 11:40.16 | fredl | Apparently some deap-seated distrust against Mr Ellison, can't imagine why |
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| 11:41.10 | Peasantinus | so you dont know details but you spread an assumption |
| 11:41.16 | fuxxy | I try not to pay attention to politics in technology |
| 11:41.23 | fredl | No, it's not an assumption |
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| 11:41.28 | fredl | He quite literally said so |
| 11:41.37 | fredl | Ok al;most literally |
| 11:42.06 | fredl | got a bit of a backlash too |
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| 11:43.59 | fredl | I've been curious about trying out ZFS on Linux tho |
| 11:44.30 | Peasantinus | ubunu 20.04 offers it |
| 11:44.33 | fredl | is it still in userspace? That was last time when I tried it I think, but that's quite long ago |
| 11:44.50 | Peasantinus | crap, this is not ##linux |
| 11:44.58 | Peasantinus | sorry |
| 11:45.05 | fredl | :D |
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| 11:45.49 | fredl | well there's some ZFS packages in Debian as well |
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| 11:46.04 | fredl | Haven't played with them for the longest time though |
| 11:46.37 | fredl | Oh, zfs-dkms whaddayaknow |
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| 11:52.38 | ratrace | zfs is quite well supported in debian. we use it as rootfs on all our servers. |
| 11:52.58 | ratrace | also, Linus is very much misguided. He apparently didn't know OpenZFS and Oracle ZFS are two different things. |
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| 11:53.59 | fredl | I'm guessing that undermines the most valid reason I was reading, that Oracle might legalbomb it? |
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| 11:54.29 | fredl | OpenZFS is GPL'ed? |
| 11:54.43 | ratrace | his opinions about not mainlining ZFS are somewhat valid, CDDL and GPL aren't compatible in that way. But everything else he said is nonsense. |
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| 11:55.47 | fredl | Or is OpenZFS CDDL? |
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| 11:56.33 | jm_ | note that it's in contrib in debian so ... |
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| 11:56.38 | fredl | ah |
| 11:56.54 | fredl | well like I said, it's been forever since I even gave it a try |
| 11:57.03 | fredl | So dunno |
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| 11:58.07 | ihristov | The licensing is tricky but you better give a try to the latest versions |
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| 11:58.16 | fredl | well, openjvm, openzfs, mariadb... |
| 11:58.27 | ihristov | I'm pretty sure you're going to find interesting features |
| 11:58.37 | fredl | Seems Linus is right about Oracle tho, right? |
| 11:58.44 | ihristov | (y) |
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| 11:59.46 | ratrace | there's nothing tricky about zfs licensing. the only problem about it is mainlinging the code. there are no problems if you build it as dkms, or even, as Canonical lawyers seem to suggest, distribute it as a prebuilt kernel module. |
| 11:59.59 | ratrace | *mainlining |
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| 12:00.11 | fredl | meh maybe I'll give it a try some day |
| 12:00.22 | fredl | Not high on my priority list tbh |
| 12:01.02 | fredl | then again I still use ext4 :D |
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| 12:01.24 | fredl | and tftpd! |
| 12:03.19 | ZAJDAN | I have mounted //server-1/Attachments to /mnt/Attachments ...when some application will want to use //server-1/Attachments ..which module says/forwards the applications into /mnt/Attachments ...? |
| 12:03.36 | ratrace | I'm using zfs even on my workstation. after discovering some data corruption under ext4, I doubt I'd ever again consider a non-checksummed fs. |
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| 12:04.24 | jm_ | ZAJDAN: it does not work that way in linux |
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| 12:04.56 | ZAJDAN | jm_ I would like to know how it works |
| 12:05.01 | ratrace | or in windows even. application using the SMB url directly cannot be "forwarded" to a local mountpoint |
| 12:05.06 | fredl | ZAJDAN, so you have a windows share mounted on a Linux system, right? |
| 12:05.18 | ZAJDAN | yes |
| 12:05.32 | fredl | Most applications running on the Linux system will not refer to //server-1/Attachments |
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| 12:05.56 | fredl | They should refer to /mnt/Attachments instead |
| 12:06.04 | ratrace | depends on the config. if you want to use /mnt/attachments then you have to confiugre that path for whatever application might be using those attachments |
| 12:06.17 | ZAJDAN | and I have in Linux one daemon which call //server-1/Attachments cause he doesn´t know that it is mounted in /mnt/Attachments |
| 12:06.54 | ZAJDAN | and actually the system forward him into /mnt/Attachments |
| 12:06.57 | fredl | ZAJDAN, that sounds a bit odd to me. Which deamon is that if I might ask? |
| 12:07.21 | ZAJDAN | SAP mailer |
| 12:08.00 | fredl | Hmm well I don't know much about SAP |
| 12:08.03 | ZAJDAN | the mailer know path from database...there I see the path as //server-1/Attachments |
| 12:08.09 | ratrace | there's no such thing as forwarding a smb url to a local mountpoint. the application must be configured for the local mountpoint |
| 12:08.11 | fredl | ah ok |
| 12:08.20 | fredl | Gotcha. |
| 12:08.47 | fredl | Maybe there exists a symlink? Is it possible to make a symlink that starts with // ? |
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| 12:09.26 | ratrace | no |
| 12:09.43 | fredl | you tried it to make sure? ;) |
| 12:09.44 | ZAJDAN | something must says to mailer that the //server-1/Attachments is mounted in /mnt/Attachments |
| 12:09.51 | fredl | was trying it, LOL |
| 12:10.01 | jm_ | short of it parsing mount output or /proc/mounts, I don't see how else it would find the right path |
| 12:10.26 | fredl | could not be the automounter right? |
| 12:10.34 | ZAJDAN | jm_ it sound logic against /proc/mounts |
| 12:11.00 | jm_ | ZAJDAN: it's SAP, there's no logic |
| 12:11.32 | fredl | well if it uses /proc/mounts... even though I'd find that raising eyebrows... could it be the SAP mailer itself does that? |
| 12:11.37 | ratrace | fredl: paths starting with // in linux are absolute paths. you can actually supply /////paths/on/linux most apps will coalesce ///// into / |
| 12:11.42 | ZAJDAN | anyway the SAP get the info from system....system(Linux) is the who arrange the translation of the paths |
| 12:12.00 | jm_ | no, like we said before, it does not work that way |
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| 12:12.10 | fredl | ZAJDAN what happens if you type 'ls //srv-1/Attachements' ? |
| 12:12.34 | fredl | if that doesn't work, be sure that it's not Linux or some daemon doing it |
| 12:13.08 | ratrace | it doesn't |
| 12:13.20 | fredl | well not for you or for me |
| 12:13.29 | ratrace | the only way apps would understand that as a smb url is if you prefix it with the proto: ls smb://srb-1/Attachments |
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| 12:13.33 | fredl | but who knows what SAP installs |
| 12:13.42 | ratrace | fredl: for anyone. ls has no idea about smb urls |
| 12:13.59 | ratrace | //paths/... are coalesced into /paths/... |
| 12:14.16 | fredl | root@gamma:~# >//srv-1 |
| 12:14.16 | fredl | root@gamma:~# ls //srv-1 |
| 12:14.16 | fredl | /srv-1 |
| 12:14.17 | fredl | :P |
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| 12:14.26 | ZAJDAN | ok...moment |
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| 12:15.06 | fredl | I wonder how ls swallows what I just spewed |
| 12:15.25 | ratrace | fredl: again, it coalesces multiple consecutive /////////// into one / |
| 12:15.34 | ratrace | and it's not ls doing that, it's glibc |
| 12:15.41 | fredl | yeah ur right, I see |
| 12:16.13 | fredl | So if he would have /srv-1/ |
| 12:16.27 | fredl | And that'd be symlink to /mnt |
| 12:16.48 | ratrace | fredl: //srv-1/Attachments/ is an URL. as such it requires protocol specification. http://srv-1/Attachments is just as valid as smb://srv-1/Attachments but the appllication needs to support those URLs. |
| 12:16.48 | fredl | Then he could access //srv-1/Attachments right? |
| 12:17.06 | fredl | Sure I agree with what you're saying |
| 12:17.07 | ratrace | you can't ls http://www.google.com/ but you CAN wget http://www.google.com because wget understands the http protocol. |
| 12:17.28 | fredl | But read more carefully what I'm saying :) |
| 12:17.37 | ZAJDAN | ls //server-1/Attachments |
| 12:17.37 | ZAJDAN | ls: cannot access '//server-1/Attachments': No such file or directory |
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| 12:17.53 | jm_ | fredl: yes, but that only works if it's mounted |
| 12:17.57 | fredl | Right so it's not Linux nor any daemon then doing it ZAJDAN |
| 12:18.05 | ratrace | fredl: again NO. applications resolving //urls will NOT work as you expect if you symlink /url to /mnt/somewhere |
| 12:18.07 | ZAJDAN | is mounted |
| 12:18.10 | fredl | So SAP mailer probably does it internally |
| 12:18.17 | ratrace | it probably does, yes. |
| 12:18.39 | fredl | And it should probably be killed for it but that's another subject |
| 12:18.49 | fredl | I think that's nasty tbh |
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| 12:19.13 | ZAJDAN | somehow the SAP mailer must gets information that the path is mounted in /mnt |
| 12:19.25 | ratrace | not necessarily. it could be configured for multiple mail storage paths and failing one (the smb: url) it tries another (the local mountpoint) if it is configured that way. pure speculation here. |
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| 12:19.58 | fredl | indeed, it is in any case no generic Linux nor Debian 'thing' |
| 12:19.58 | ratrace | ZAJDAN: what makes you think it does anything with /mnt/ at all? |
| 12:20.35 | fredl | Maybe SAP mailer simply speaks SMB |
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| 12:20.47 | fredl | That's more likely actually |
| 12:20.51 | ratrace | indeed |
| 12:20.54 | ZAJDAN | retrace: cause when the remote path is not mounted the mailer doesn´t see the attachments and doesn´t work |
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| 12:21.05 | ZAJDAN | when is mounted all works properly |
| 12:21.15 | fredl | Oh... |
| 12:21.18 | jm_ | class |
| 12:21.32 | ratrace | ZAJDAN: and did you check if that thing is actaully configured to try /mnt/ ? |
| 12:21.36 | fredl | Well I'm tempted to say that SAP is pretty dirty anyway |
| 12:22.02 | fredl | That's why I know very little about it, try and stay very far away from it |
| 12:22.10 | ZAJDAN | file:///C:/Users/zchladek/Downloads/pdfslide.net_sap-business-one-administrators-guide-version-for-sap-hana-ssl-encryption-.pdf (page 106) |
| 12:22.18 | fredl | Had to admin it once and wasn't impressed |
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| 12:22.25 | ZAJDAN | sorry |
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| 12:23.23 | fredl | it has a fuxxyload of backward compatibility and stuff to make it work on as many different platforms as possible |
| 12:23.25 | ZAJDAN | http://www.abbasoft.com/Docs/administration-guide-8-2-hana.pdf |
| 12:23.31 | ZAJDAN | page 106 |
| 12:23.34 | ratrace | it's proprietary software not really supported in #debian, so not sure we can do anything beyond what's already said. |
| 12:24.05 | fredl | indeed, sounds more like a question to ask the vendor |
| 12:24.16 | fredl | That why you pay expensive licenses :P |
| 12:24.27 | ZAJDAN | I just want to show You there is the information the the remote path is mounted in /mnt |
| 12:24.59 | ratrace | ZAJDAN: if there is, it's specific to SAP and its configuration |
| 12:25.10 | ZAJDAN | and the mailer has not information about /mnt/... he know just path from database //server-1/... |
| 12:25.42 | fredl | ZAJDAN - I think everybody talking understand your point and it seems remotely valid |
| 12:25.52 | ZAJDAN | so somehow via OS the mailer is forwarded into /mnt |
| 12:26.05 | ZAJDAN | ok ok |
| 12:26.20 | ratrace | another possiblity is that it still is using smb, and not touching /mnt/ at all, but the remote smb server is authorizing that access because the mount :: from your local IP :: is somehow authorized |
| 12:26.28 | fredl | Keep in mind though, apps can use very strange ways sometimes to 'make it work' |
| 12:26.47 | fredl | that's a stretch ratrace |
| 12:26.54 | fredl | but yeah |
| 12:27.03 | fredl | It's a lot of guessing what-if |
| 12:27.19 | ratrace | not at all. not unusual for servers to do IP based authorization and once you log in, they accept all requests from that IP |
| 12:27.20 | fredl | Why not ask your vendor ZAJDAN ? |
| 12:27.29 | ratrace | but indeed, this is beyond #debian |
| 12:27.34 | ZAJDAN | for me sound logic that the mailer looks into /proc/mounts |
| 12:27.51 | ZAJDAN | vendor? ask SAP is story for one year :_)))) |
| 12:27.59 | fredl | yeah don't try removing it to check the theory :P |
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| 12:28.54 | ZAJDAN | so in debian is nothing like"resolver" for paths ? |
| 12:29.10 | fredl | Well there's no real need |
| 12:29.21 | bogdan_ | Hey, so I did an upgrade and I got this: W: Possible missing firmware /lib/firmware/i915/bxt_dmc_ver1_07.bin for module i915. |
| 12:29.21 | fredl | As you typically can mount wherever you want to mount |
| 12:29.22 | ratrace | ZAJDAN: no |
| 12:29.25 | bogdan_ | Should I be worried? |
| 12:29.41 | ratrace | bogdan_: identify which it is and install it |
| 12:29.48 | ZAJDAN | something that when app call //remote/somedir system look if such path is mounted somewhere |
| 12:30.06 | jelly | ZAJDAN: what do you mean by resolver for paths? |
| 12:30.20 | fredl | I already answered that I think and so did ratrace |
| 12:30.31 | ZAJDAN | remote(smb, cifs, etc) |
| 12:30.36 | ratrace | ZAJDAN: that'd be technically impossible unless that "resolver" also did DNS resolving so the client attempting smb://srv-1/ is redirected to smb://localhost/ where a smb daemon would passtrhough to /mnt/ |
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| 12:30.56 | ratrace | ZAJDAN: the _actual_ URL there is smb://srv-1/Attachments |
| 12:31.05 | jm_ | bogdan_: install firmware-misc-nonfree |
| 12:31.06 | ratrace | (even if all you see is part after smb:) |
| 12:31.17 | fredl | ZAJDAN - on Linux a remote filesystem is often mounted to look like it's local. You can mount remote storage anywhere you want |
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| 12:31.34 | fredl | Just not on something that starts with // or stuff like that |
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| 12:31.41 | ZAJDAN | ok..thnx for all the info |
| 12:32.02 | fredl | although, hmm, maybe I could mkdir smb:// in my root directory |
| 12:32.08 | fredl | that'd be funny |
| 12:32.16 | fredl | and slightly misleading |
| 12:32.31 | fredl | But equally offtopic |
| 12:32.35 | ratrace | fredl: again, no. "remote filsystems is often mounted to look like it's local" is false. |
| 12:32.42 | bogdan_ | @jm_ thank you so much |
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| 12:32.58 | ratrace | again, these are URLs. URLs require protocol specification. The *actual* URL used here is smb://srv-1/Attachments |
| 12:32.59 | fredl | ratrace - English is not my first language :P |
| 12:33.29 | fredl | yes, yes, I know! |
| 12:33.52 | fredl | And I once made a file called '-i' |
| 12:34.00 | ratrace | //srv-1/Attachments in its actual URL form is file:///srv-1/Attachments |
| 12:34.04 | fredl | It gave rm -rf * unexpected results |
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| 12:34.20 | fredl | Well, not unexpected in retrospect |
| 12:34.29 | jelly | fredl: maybe don't ever do rm -rf * |
| 12:34.48 | fredl | jelly - of course. |
| 12:34.57 | jelly | maybe go up the directory and wipe the directory by name |
| 12:35.04 | fredl | But touch -i prevents havoc |
| 12:35.25 | jelly | each jr. sysadmin will only make that mistake once |
| 12:35.39 | fredl | yes I did, maybe 35 years ago now |
| 12:35.58 | fredl | accidentally typed /* instead of * too |
| 12:36.03 | fredl | not good |
| 12:36.05 | ratrace | oof |
| 12:36.13 | jelly | that's fun |
| 12:36.15 | fredl | Well I wasn't even sysadmin then! |
| 12:36.27 | jelly | "why is this command taking so long" |
| 12:36.28 | fredl | Just an intern |
| 12:36.34 | nyuszika7h | is there a way to let systemd user services keep running after logout without having to do `loginctl enable-linger USERNAME` for each user? |
| 12:36.42 | fuxxy | I read somewhere that it's a good habit to use rm * -rf instead of rm -rf * |
| 12:36.44 | fredl | Well yeah, and pressing control-C quickly... not a lot of help |
| 12:37.24 | fredl | I wouldn't know why fuxxy |
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| 12:38.42 | fredl | Hmm which makes me wonder.... touch -rf |
| 12:38.48 | fredl | oooh that's a neat one |
| 12:38.50 | nyuszika7h | zsh prompts when you try to do anything like `rm *` |
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| 12:38.52 | ratrace | nyuszika7h: probably not as that's the whole point of it |
| 12:39.02 | han-solo | it's `rm -rf *` vs `rm -fr *`, i think fuxxy |
| 12:39.33 | fredl | Why would it prompt if there's no -i or something? |
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| 12:39.50 | nyuszika7h | zsh itself prompts if it sees * used with rm |
| 12:40.00 | nyuszika7h | % rm * |
| 12:40.01 | nyuszika7h | zsh: sure you want to delete all 2 files in /home/nyuszika7h/tmp [yn]? |
| 12:40.07 | fredl | pfff |
| 12:40.13 | fredl | that's pedantic :) |
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| 12:40.53 | fredl | are you sure that isn't some alias by chance? |
| 12:41.06 | fredl | alias rm |
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| 12:41.35 | jm_ | no, it;s not an alias |
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| 12:42.46 | jm_ | https://sources.debian.org/src/zsh/5.7.1-1/Src/utils.c/?hl=2834#L2834 |
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| 12:43.53 | jm_ | there are options to control it |
| 12:44.05 | fredl | wow |
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| 12:44.40 | fredl | well to each their own |
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| 12:45.41 | fredl | ratrace, that whole tftp/pxe shit ain't fun BTW |
| 12:45.50 | ratrace | I can imagine |
| 12:46.07 | fredl | I use it without -s now but that means EVERY transfer needs absolute paths |
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| 12:46.44 | colo-work | `type <word>` will tell you what kind of beast a given command is, on a bourne-stlye shell |
| 12:46.50 | fredl | and I can't even specify /srv/tftp coz it says then that it's anything not under /srv/tftp is an illegal path |
| 12:47.11 | fredl | So I might end up having to redo all the paths in my pxe config files anyway :P |
| 12:48.22 | fredl | Well, as well as the filename's in dhcpd.conf actually |
| 12:48.31 | fredl | so it's one big hairy mess |
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| 12:48.53 | fredl | serves me right for wanting to do something as COMPLEX pfff |
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| 12:50.11 | fredl | I guess somebody waaaay in the past must've though 'I should have pxelinux.cfg do all this intelligent stuff!' |
| 12:50.19 | fredl | which is ipxe in essence |
| 12:50.26 | fredl | ehr pxelinux.0 |
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| 12:54.25 | ZAJDAN | cifs -o user= ..it asked me remote user(on windows) ? |
| 12:54.54 | ZAJDAN | or linux(local user) |
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| 12:55.08 | ratrace | ZAJDAN: remote |
| 12:55.54 | ratrace | ZAJDAN: that's mount.cifs there, yes? |
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| 12:56.21 | ZAJDAN | yes... mount -t cifs |
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| 12:57.06 | ratrace | ZAJDAN: right. remote user then |
| 12:58.26 | fuxxy | This topic is making me question why I work a labor job in a chemical plant. |
| 12:58.37 | qorg11 | Is it possible to install grub2 in a usb drive (so you can delete /boot in the computer drive) having the hard drive 100% encrypted? |
| 12:59.13 | fuxxy | qorg11, I don't see why not. The real question is whether the bios/UEFI will boot from the USB device. |
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| 12:59.46 | qorg11 | Just change the boot order i guess |
| 12:59.47 | fuxxy | qorg11, that being said, there are hardware encryption devices that use a keyfob presence for decryption |
| 12:59.49 | ratrace | qorg11: yes, and you can then use keyfile, no passphrase needed. plug it in for boot, then unplug. BUT... make sure you have good backups of the luks header and the key |
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| 13:00.58 | qorg11 | That's interesting, gotta try it in a non-librebooted machine lol |
| 13:01.24 | fuxxy | qorg11, https://www.addonics.com/products/cc2dt.php |
| 13:02.23 | qorg11 | But it's also possible to use FDE with libreboot |
| 13:02.47 | qorg11 | Never got it to work, but it's possble |
| 13:03.29 | fuxxy | Sure, just less configuration time with the drawback of being stuck with one encryption algo |
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| 13:10.30 | ws2k3 | so i got a kinda weird networking issue. i have an secondary interface with multiple ip's. i added a new ip. but the new ip is not working. also the ip looks different in ip addr show other ips look like this inet 172.30.51.113/20 brd 172.30.63.255 scope global secondary ens6 but my new added ip looks like this inet 172.30.60.174/20 scope global secondary ens6 i used 172.30.60.174/20 dev ens6 could i be missing something here? |
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| 13:12.09 | fuxxy | multiple IP's on the same interface? Have you configured vLANs? |
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| 13:14.23 | abrotman | you'll likely have to paste your whole interfaces file |
| 13:14.49 | ratrace | ws2k3: describe "not working". having single brd entry is I think fine, that's for the whole NIC. also vLANs are not required for multiple IPs per NIC |
| 13:15.29 | ws2k3 | ratrace: i cant connect to the internet using that ip. also the box is not reachable on that ip |
| 13:15.55 | ws2k3 | ratrace: while on other ip's on the same interface i can connect to the internet just fine |
| 13:17.12 | ratrace | ws2k3: yeah please post the whole interfaces file as abrotman suggest, as well as outputs of `ip a` and `ip route` |
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| 13:18.52 | ws2k3 | i havent added the ip to the interfaces file yet |
| 13:19.28 | bogdan_ | Hey, so I am using snap on debian, I installed some old wms/des to test them out and now I can't run snap packages directly anynmore. But only with: /snap/bin/./slack |
| 13:19.43 | bogdan_ | it used to be just "slack" |
| 13:19.46 | fuxxy | ratrace, Have a link to multiple interfaces on a nic without vLANs? Aside from some bridging, I didnt realize that was possible |
| 13:19.53 | bogdan_ | anyway I can fix this? |
| 13:20.04 | ratrace | ws2k3: then you're missing the route, if you only ran `ip addr add` |
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| 13:20.27 | ratrace | bogdan_: add /snap/bin/ to your PATH |
| 13:20.29 | ws2k3 | ratrace: https://pastebin.com/3uiLxePc |
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| 13:22.32 | ratrace | ws2k3: why you have three routing entries for the same IP range, on different nics? |
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| 13:24.09 | ratrace | fuxxy: I don't specifically, no. |
| 13:24.25 | ws2k3 | ratrace: cause this are local ip's not WAN ip's. this is on AWS when you requiest an IP at aws you get a random private ip |
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| 13:27.08 | NetTerminalGene | is xfce using wayland by default? |
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| 13:27.21 | ws2k3 | ratrace: the only IP that is not working is inet 172.30.60.174/20 scope global secondary ens6 |
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| 13:31.01 | ratrace | ws2k3: that setup you have there is totally unreasonable. and other than the four IPs you're routing for with src hints, I wonder if anything else works. |
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| 13:37.47 | quarterback | installing debian, then centos, then ubuntu and now I'm back into debian. ubuntu has lot of bugs. |
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| 13:38.13 | Akuw_ | i installed a new disk and Debian and got same error for eth1 "Detected Hardware Unit Hang" |
| 13:38.34 | quarterback | Debian seems stable. the only problem is graphics which seem kinda slow on a intel q35 express graphics chipset. |
| 13:40.10 | fuxxy | Akuw_, this https://superuser.com/questions/1270723/how-to-fix-eth0-detected-hardware-unit-hang-in-debian-9/1270796 seems to suggest it's a hardware bug |
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| 13:41.09 | fuxxy | Akuw_, you *may* be able to install an older device driver for your nic |
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| 13:42.55 | ratrace | Akuw_: any firmware missing? dmesg | grep -i firmware |
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| 13:58.38 | Akuw_ | retrace: let me check |
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| 14:02.45 | joepublic | intel graphics slow? as in, benchmarked slower than in some other operating system? |
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| 14:02.57 | Akuw_ | retrace: i got "ACPI: BUOS _OSI query ignored" |
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| 14:03.18 | Akuw_ | HEST: Enabling Firmware First mode for corrected error |
| 14:03.51 | Akuw_ | mce: [Firmware Bug] : Ignoring request to disable invalid MCA back 10 |
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| 14:04.03 | ratrace | Akuw_: no, missing firmware would specifically complain about missing files it wanted to load |
| 14:04.49 | Akuw_ | hummm |
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| 14:05.55 | ws2k3 | ratrace: jup everything works fine. except that ip :P |
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| 14:06.10 | ratrace | ws2k3: then you didn't post whole output of ip route |
| 14:06.56 | ws2k3 | ratrace: https://pastebin.com/UaBShNbL |
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| 14:07.31 | ratrace | ws2k3: ideally use the interfaces(5) framework: https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration#Multiple_IP_addresses_on_one_Interface |
| 14:07.40 | Akuw_ | ok, this error "Reset Adapter unexpected" when i connect ethernet cable |
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| 14:08.41 | ratrace | Akuw_: what's your network interface name? eth0? enp3s0? something else? |
| 14:08.51 | ws2k3 | ratrace: im not sure what you mean. cause i see 2 ways. the iproute2 and the legacy method. so what is ur point exacly? |
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| 14:09.26 | ratrace | ws2k3: my point is set up the ips via /etc/network/interfaces and restart the networking.service |
| 14:09.42 | Akuw_ | eth1 |
| 14:09.48 | ratrace | ws2k3: the iproute2 way (so no eg eth0:0 aliasing) |
| 14:10.05 | ratrace | Akuw_: can you pastebin the output of dmesg | grep -i eth1 ? |
| 14:10.24 | Akuw_ | wait please |
| 14:10.25 | ratrace | Akuw_: don't type it. if you don't have network on that machine, make a screenshot/snapshot and upload to imgur, for example |
| 14:10.47 | ws2k3 | ratrace: well ip addr add feels a bit more safe since its a production machine with no backup. but thats a compleetly different story :P |
| 14:11.42 | ratrace | ws2k3: another thing to consider: AWS didn't set up that IP properly for you, or isn't routing it at all. |
| 14:12.02 | ratrace | ws2k3: but I really have to ask, why on earth so many different IPs in different subnets on the same nic. |
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| 14:13.20 | ws2k3 | ratrace: it already was like this :( |
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| 14:25.23 | nifker | How do I get this package for bullseye? https://packages.debian.org/jessie/libwayland-cursor0-dbg |
| 14:26.14 | dvs | ,v libwayland-cursor0-dbg |
| 14:26.15 | judd | Package: libwayland-cursor0-dbg on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6.0-2 |
| 14:26.50 | nkuttler | first guess would be, rebuild libwayland-cursor0 with debug symbols? |
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| 14:31.57 | dka | I did apt-get update and I have `N: Repository 'http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease' changed its 'Version' value from '10.2' to '10.3'` |
| 14:32.06 | dka | what does that mean and how the hell do I fix this ? |
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| 14:34.59 | dvs | ??? |
| 14:36.00 | dvs | It means exactly what it says: buster has been upgraded to 10.3. There's nothing wrong, it's just a note (hence the "N:" at the beginning) |
| 14:36.06 | colo-work | dka, there is nothing to fix. Debian changed its version number from 10.2 to 10.3. |
| 14:36.27 | LtL | dka: try, apt-get --allow-releaseinfo-change update |
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| 14:37.36 | dka | ok |
| 14:38.26 | rafalcpp_ | @petn-randall why it takes so long (enigmail thunderbird) to move into stable, it has a grave bug now (unusable) in old version. I suppose there's nothing I can do to make it happen quicker? |
| 14:38.37 | jelly | dpkg, tell nifker about dbgsym |
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| 14:41.25 | wwilliam | Hello If I have this crontab http://paste.debian.net/hidden/d8eb495f/ why would espassprocon_prod run at 13:20? |
| 14:42.09 | freewebserver | Hy everyone! Any want to free webserver? (NO ADS, SOME LIMIT'S AND TEST ENVIROMENT) |
| 14:42.32 | joepublic | what a great way to get ddos'd |
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| 14:43.05 | joepublic | also, take an English class |
| 14:43.30 | freewebserver | :D |
| 14:43.37 | freewebserver | thanks |
| 14:43.42 | joepublic | np. 'luck. |
| 14:44.14 | freewebserver | thanks :) |
| 14:44.36 | joepublic | !ops freewebserver weak spam |
| 14:44.36 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: joepublic complains about a problem (see above) |
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| 14:45.58 | freewebserver | I am not spammer :D |
| 14:46.18 | joepublic | sorry, "freewebserver weak spam and in denial" |
| 14:46.44 | LtL | dka: the command i gave does no harm, it's for the 'suite change' error which you do not have. dvs and others are correct, nothing wrong, sorry. |
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| 14:48.12 | warbaque | I have a problem with lenovo x250 laptop and external 4k display. Sometimes display flickers to black every few seconds (signal turning on and off), and sometimes it works for hours without issues. |
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| 14:48.45 | joepublic | sounds like standard hdmi |
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| 14:50.02 | joepublic | for my 4k monitor I had to (1) not go through any adapter but plug straight into an hdmi port, and (2) use the shortest hdmi cable that would reach. it was super-sensitive to interference, a defect in hdmi design in my opinion |
| 14:50.31 | joepublic | this was not on a laptop and may or may not apply to your problem, but perhaps good info to know |
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| 14:52.22 | warbaque | laptop (mini-dp) <-> display (dp) |
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| 14:53.37 | joepublic | well, that means my info is unrelated and I am just rambling. |
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| 14:53.45 | joepublic | apologies. |
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| 15:49.29 | tachikomas | Hi debian community :D I am having weird bugs with systemd tmpfiles.d that for some reason, are not created one every x reboots. is there an open bug at this subject ? |
| 15:49.37 | tachikomas | debian 10 stable latest |
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| 16:01.45 | no_gravity | How do you find files that are in a/ (including subdirs) but not in b/? |
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| 16:22.00 | mklvr | no_gravity, I might be misunderstanding your request but something like: 'find a/ -type f' should work. |
| 16:22.58 | no_gravity | mklvr: That finds files in a/ but does not check if they exist in b/ |
| 16:23.07 | no_gravity | This is what I used now: |
| 16:23.11 | no_gravity | comm -2 -3 <(cd a; find . | sort) <(cd b; find . | sort) |
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| 16:26.09 | greycat | rsync --dry-run is your friend |
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| 16:27.22 | no_gravity | greycat: AFAIK there is no "exists in source but not in dest" parem in rsync. |
| 16:28.02 | greycat | it's not enough for you to see that rsync *would* copy the file if you dropped the --dry-run option? |
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| 16:28.34 | no_gravity | No, because I want the files that exist in a/ but not in b/. |
| 16:28.45 | greycat | ... ok, whatever. |
| 16:28.50 | no_gravity | It is completely unrelated to what rsync would do when I would sync the dirs. |
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| 16:38.01 | n_1-c_k | no_gravity, '"exists in source but not in dest" parem' - doesn't --ignore-existing do that? |
| 16:38.13 | no_gravity | n_1-c_k: Let me check ... |
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| 16:40.00 | no_gravity | n_1-c_k: First test and --ingore-existing did ignore existing files. |
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| 16:40.04 | no_gravity | Let me read the docs ... |
| 16:40.25 | no_gravity | "skip updating files that exist on receiver" ... hmm... |
| 16:40.38 | no_gravity | If only it would do that :) |
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| 16:43.06 | no_gravity | When I tried to build a minimal use case, it it does... |
| 16:43.07 | jhutchins_wk | no_gravity: Generate the lists and diff them. |
| 16:43.28 | no_gravity | jhutchins_wk: One moment, thinking hard about rsync --ignore-existing ... |
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| 16:48.18 | no_gravity | Maybe it works! |
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| 16:50.20 | no_gravity | That ouputs some noise though |
| 16:50.29 | no_gravity | For example names of subdirs |
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| 16:51.03 | greycat | What are you actually trying to do? |
| 16:51.22 | no_gravity | Find all files that exist in a/ but not in b/. |
| 16:51.26 | greycat | Why? |
| 16:51.47 | no_gravity | Lets stick to the technical part. |
| 16:51.52 | greycat | *plonk* |
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| 16:52.58 | no_gravity | So far the "only" problem I find with "rsync -avn --ignore-existing" is that it outputs subdirs even though they exist in both, a/ and b/. |
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| 16:53.26 | needle | hello I have a question regarding systemd. Howto add a HTTPD service to default startup? |
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| 16:54.29 | needle | This is a headless server w/o destkop |
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| 16:54.49 | no_gravity | Well, the "comm" solution seems to work and is already in my history now. |
| 16:54.58 | greycat | If you're installing a Debian http server, it should come with a systemd unit of its own, ready to go. If you're installing an http server from outside Debian, then see https://wiki.debian.org/systemd/Services |
| 16:54.59 | no_gravity | So I will not further fix the rsync solution. |
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| 16:55.01 | needle | systemctl enable httpd ? default? |
| 16:55.10 | no_gravity | Thanks everyone! |
| 16:56.30 | greycat | Which web server did you install, and was it from Debian, or from somewhere else? |
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| 16:56.45 | needle | greycat: this is great but I the https://wiki.debian.org/systemd/Services lacks on howto add to default startup |
| 16:56.55 | greycat | Incorrect. It's all in there. |
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| 16:57.13 | greycat | https://wiki.debian.org/systemd/Services#Making_it_go |
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| 16:58.35 | needle | greycat: Thanks you for the help |
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| 17:02.12 | needle | systemctl enable httpd.service was the solution |
| 17:02.14 | needle | ty |
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| 17:39.55 | jelly | !qotd0 |
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| 17:39.55 | dpkg | <maligor> they even attempted to turn me into emacs at the univ <AimHere> Do you mean 'onto' emacs, or does RMS have some sort of secret undergrounds basement where nerds go in, and emacs comes out? <AimHere> Emacs 22.6 ... is ... people! |
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| 17:49.25 | PaddyF | !qotd2 |
| 17:49.25 | dpkg | <mrvn> Broadcast message from root (Sat Aug 7 05:48:42 2004): <mrvn> The system is going down for system halt NOW! <mrvn> What the fuck is dselect/dpkg doing a reboot for? <trave11er> mrvn: for changes to take effect? ;-) <StevenK> mrvn: You *had* to move the mouse, didn't you? <mrvn> StevenK: damn, yes. I accidentally pushed it. |
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| 17:55.13 | jelly | 0 does a random qotd pick, 2 does not |
| 17:55.50 | PaddyF | yeah |
| 17:55.51 | greycat | !literal qotd0 |
| 17:55.51 | dpkg | "qotd0" is "<reply> see qotd(|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|10|11|12|13|14|15|16|17|18|19|20|21|22|23|24|25|26|27|28|29)(0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9)" |
| 17:55.58 | PaddyF | so many, cool |
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| 17:56.33 | greycat | goes up to 304, but 300-304 aren't in the randomizing thing yet (it works in groups of 10) |
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| 18:00.04 | PaddyF | !cowbot |
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| 18:06.26 | sbug | someone should probably change the topic to show 10.3 instead of 10.2 |
| 18:07.20 | greycat | and stretch too... |
| 18:07.22 | *** mode/#debian [+o greycat] by ChanServ |
| 18:08.06 | *** topic/#debian by greycat -> Current Debian release is buster, 10.3 point release (needs dist-upgrade) /msg dpkg 10.3; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch; /msg dpkg 9.12 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 18:10.30 | *** topic/#debian by greycat -> Current Debian release is buster, 10.3 point release (needs dist-upgrade) /msg dpkg 10.3; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch; /msg dpkg 9.12 (needs dist-upgrade) | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 18:10.40 | greycat | (9.12 also needs dist-upgrade) |
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| 18:17.38 | fingers | debian got no /etc/locale.conf? |
| 18:18.07 | greycat | you're looking for dpkg-reconfigure locales |
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| 18:20.32 | fingers | I'm what now sir? |
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| 18:23.06 | issiah | S3xyL1nux |
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| 18:47.20 | nemo | So... after not an enormous amount of success attempting a manual compile of the CylanceProtect kernel "driver" (deep kernel hooks for their rootkit^Wantivirus), I thought perhaps I'd just attempt to load the ubuntu .ko files they bundle. this was not successful, probably just due to different kernel feature flags enabled |
| 18:47.37 | nemo | So, I had a new idea. Just use the ubuntu 18.04 kernel instead of the debian stable one |
| 18:47.53 | nemo | is this something people have done before, and, is it a reasonably safe/easy thing to do? |
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| 18:48.34 | jelly | nemo: things ought to work, but if they break don't call us :-) |
| 18:48.38 | nemo | hehe |
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| 18:48.53 | nemo | jelly: what's the most maintainable way to do that? can I specify it in /etc/apt sanely? |
| 18:49.00 | nemo | (just the kernel and its deps, nothing else) |
| 18:49.26 | greycat | I'd rather just download the kernel .deb file by hand and install it, rather than pollute apt. |
| 18:49.42 | nemo | greycat: mm. was concerned about missing out on critical security updates |
| 18:50.02 | greycat | ... yeaaah, sure. |
| 18:50.05 | jelly | nemo: not really. You probably could wing something with pinning, but I wouldn't keep it enabled the whole time |
| 18:50.13 | nemo | greycat: that was a serious concern |
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| 18:50.26 | jelly | greycat: ubuntu has a new kernel with a new kernel abi like every week or two |
| 18:50.33 | greycat | and you think these ubuntu folks are going to be right on top of it? |
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| 18:50.53 | nemo | greycat: no, but it's better than my memory no? |
| 18:50.55 | jelly | so it's going to be a pain managing it manually |
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| 18:51.10 | nemo | jelly: surely they aren't as cavalier with the LTS |
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| 18:51.30 | jelly | nemo: I'm basing this off my 16.04 laptop installation. |
| 18:51.35 | nemo | oh :/ |
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| 18:52.17 | jelly | they're at like 150 ABIs in 4 years |
| 18:52.20 | nemo | jelly: hm. well. 'nother question then. is there a good channel for people who enjoy figuring out stuff like this? https://m8y.org/tmp/cylance-errors.txt |
| 18:52.50 | nemo | would be ideal if I could just get this !@#$ thing to build |
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| 18:53.17 | jelly | nemo: #kernelnewbies on oftc? ##kernel? |
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| 18:53.45 | nemo | jelly: heh. only dude who took an interest in ##kernel recommended -w disabling all the errors. I was preeeeety sure coercing UINT32 to a structure pointer was a bad idea |
| 18:53.58 | nemo | no matter how uninterested I was in the proper function of the rootkit |
| 18:54.01 | jelly | ask the cylance people to forward port their stuff to 4.19? |
| 18:54.25 | annadane | can someone also change oftc's #debian channel topic? |
| 18:54.38 | nemo | I'm still not sure it is a 4.19 issue. although it may well be (they only bundle 4.13) but when I contacted them, they were explicit in only supporting ubuntu |
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| 18:54.46 | jelly | nemo: you can't just "make it build", you need to identify and track changes in structures and function calls |
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| 18:55.28 | nemo | jelly: yeah, I was kinda sorta hoping it wasn't significant changes in function calls but possibly something silly. like I got it building for 4.9 due to their attempt to use a feature that only ubuntu had enabled. but this time I'm more confused |
| 18:55.47 | nemo | jelly: for one thing, the cred struct there seems to have been added a long time ago. so yeah, I'm wondering if one of their preprocessor checks is fail |
| 18:56.26 | jelly | you could keep using 4.9 from stretch and its security updates with an otherwise buster userspace |
| 18:56.32 | nemo | hmmm |
| 18:56.37 | nemo | jelly: that did not occur to me! |
| 18:56.42 | nemo | jelly: is *that* less break-y? |
| 18:56.51 | nemo | (than using ubuntu's kernel) |
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| 18:57.06 | nemo | and how would I set that up in apt? |
| 18:57.19 | greycat | add a buster source, apt-get update |
| 18:57.24 | nemo | there's nothing in the new kernel I need. the only machine which needs a flag I was waiting on does not require this rootkit |
| 18:57.26 | jelly | mixing an older release of debian into a newer one is _almost_ guaranteed not to have newer versions of packages |
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| 18:58.17 | jelly | sadly, I say _almost_ because it's happened that oldstable under LTS team got patches for stuff faster than stable, at times |
| 18:58.46 | nemo | jelly: oh... I just need to switch my kernel to oldstable? |
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| 18:58.55 | nemo | jelly: and it'll stay on it, including patches, probably? |
| 18:59.05 | greycat | it should, yes |
| 18:59.09 | nemo | sweet |
| 18:59.14 | jelly | nemo: you will need to set up some pinning to stretch |
| 18:59.30 | jelly | or ping buster kernels to -1 |
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| 18:59.34 | jelly | pin* |
| 18:59.43 | nemo | jelly: yeah, this is probably getting beyond my level of familiarity. would you mind terribly giving me a sample? |
| 18:59.49 | nemo | do not want to break everything |
| 19:00.04 | jelly | no, I always have to look it up each time |
| 19:00.10 | nemo | kk |
| 19:00.16 | jelly | !apt_pinning |
| 19:00.22 | jelly | erm. |
| 19:00.39 | jelly | !apt-pinning |
| 19:00.39 | dpkg | Pinning is a method to choose which version of a package to install when multiple versions are available from <sources.list>. Bugs are explained at https://web.archive.org/web/20121017070250/http://carlo17.home.xs4all.nl/howto/debian.html#errata . If you use stable, pinning won't help you from messing up the system, ask me about <backports> instead. https://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences |
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| 19:01.20 | nemo | Force a package downgrade (not recommended) â heh |
| 19:01.27 | jelly | okay that factoid is out of date, at least some bugs have been fixed and pinning works in a more sane manner in buster |
| 19:01.48 | jelly | got nothing |
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| 19:03.11 | nemo | jelly: ok. so Package: linux-image Pin: release a=oldstable ? |
| 19:03.22 | nemo | â noob w/ apt config |
| 19:03.58 | jelly | nemo: no, but I don't want to read man apt_preferences instead of you :-) |
| 19:04.18 | urxtnw | After I've installed Debian and configured Gnome DE for my liking, gnome tweaks etc. will I ever have to do this again, even if I upgrade when Debian 11 comes out? |
| 19:04.20 | nemo | ah. I was trying to adapt their example for claws-mail |
| 19:04.24 | nemo | thought I was reading it correctly |
| 19:04.34 | nemo | their pin was Pin: release a=stretch-backports |
| 19:04.52 | nemo | let's see if the wiki has something on oldstable |
| 19:04.55 | greycat | urxtnw: that would be up to the GNOME people, and how well they handle upgrades with old configurations |
| 19:05.13 | nemo | oh.. it's literally just "stretch" lol |
| 19:05.23 | urxtnw | greycat, I see, makes sense |
| 19:05.35 | nemo | so the pin would be same as their claws-mail. now I just need the right meta package I suppose |
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| 19:05.53 | greycat | one would *expect* them to handle an upgrade pretty well, but I don't have much GNOME experience so I don't know for sure |
| 19:06.13 | jelly | nemo: you'll probably want to pin linux-image-amd64 from n=stretch or something. "apt-cache policy" will tell you more about configured repo sources |
| 19:07.14 | jelly | !stretch sources.list |
| 19:07.14 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main" "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
| 19:08.43 | nemo | jelly: oh. I see. so I need both sets of sources on update from now on, so that apt update knows to check for new stretch backports as well |
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| 19:09.02 | greycat | it wouldn't be backports, but yes |
| 19:09.35 | nemo | greycat: oh... stretch-security ? |
| 19:09.54 | nemo | would like to have the bare minimum in there |
| 19:10.22 | greycat | OK, then you can omit the stretch-updates line. |
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| 19:10.36 | deepfreez | Hi :) is a way to get in timestamp the data if I use "iotop -botqqqk" to retrive iops? right now is "13:19:01" if I use -t |
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| 19:10.53 | nemo | greycat: oh. unless updates would improve the situation with this mix I guess |
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| 19:11.14 | nemo | wonder if this will screw up virtualbox. hopefully not |
| 19:11.23 | jelly | nemo: I didn't say anything about stretch-backports |
| 19:11.51 | nemo | jelly: I was just using wrong terminology |
| 19:12.14 | nemo | jelly: "changes to stretch kernel post-release for security/stability reasons that I still want to receiv in my new patchwork machine" |
| 19:12.34 | nemo | welp here goes... |
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| 19:15.37 | urxtnw | Does anyone know why gnome-tweaks doesn't have the "Desktop" option? (to enable desktop items?) |
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| 19:16.46 | sbug | you mean desktop icons? GNOME does not support icons on the desktop anymore |
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| 19:18.04 | urxtnw | sbug, since what release? |
| 19:18.14 | sbug | not really sure |
| 19:18.41 | urxtnw | sbug, https://news.softpedia.com/news/gnome-3-30-brings-back-desktop-icons-with-nautilus-integration-wayland-support-522369.shtml |
| 19:18.46 | urxtnw | I am confused |
| 19:18.51 | greycat | https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/01/gnome-desktop-icons-removed-3-28 |
| 19:19.13 | greycat | *shrug* |
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| 19:19.41 | greycat | Next obvious question is, "what version of gnome is in Debian version x, and how do we find out". |
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| 19:19.56 | greycat | Near as I can tell, there is no simple way to find that out. |
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| 19:20.57 | urxtnw | greycat, apt policy gnome-shell |
| 19:21.05 | denken | greycat: packages.debian.org wont tell you? |
| 19:21.24 | nkuttler | hm, i want scp/rsync files from the source to the target and delete them from the source after copying. how do i avoid race conditions when deleting? |
| 19:21.25 | guzzlefry | I could be misremembering, but doesn't Debian support a .php_version file to specify which version of PHP to use on the command line? |
| 19:21.46 | greycat | so the version of "gnome-shell" is the version of GNOME? |
| 19:21.52 | nkuttler | i guess i could explicitly delete files that exist on the target |
| 19:22.13 | jelly | guzzlefry: that does not sound like something php*-cli packages would implement |
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| 19:22.17 | urxtnw | sbug, in that news article it actually says it will be enabled in an extension, it's called gnome-shell-desktop-icons and it appears now in tweaks |
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| 19:22.42 | jelly | guzzlefry: mostly because there's usually only one version of php supported in a given release |
| 19:23.12 | jelly | ,v php-cli |
| 19:23.13 | judd | Package: php-cli on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; bullseye: 2:7.3+69; buster: 2:7.3+69; sid: 2:7.3+69 |
| 19:23.21 | jelly | ,v php5-cli |
| 19:23.22 | judd | Package: php5-cli on amd64 -- jessie: 5.6.33+dfsg-0+deb8u1; jessie-security: 5.6.40+dfsg-0+deb8u8 |
| 19:23.36 | sbug | urxtnw: oh I see |
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| 19:24.05 | urxtnw | sbug, but with this finding, now I can completely switch to Debian from Ubuntu |
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| 19:24.18 | urxtnw | sbug, it was the last thing that bothered me |
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| 20:20.34 | ws2k3 | what could be wrong with this interfaces file? https://pastebin.com/MGWaYCaY |
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| 20:23.39 | greycat | It would help if you said what problem you're actually seeing. The first thing I notice is you're using "allow-hotplug eth0", which means daemons might come up before the network does. That may or may not be an issue for you. |
| 20:24.07 | ws2k3 | greycat: ip does not appear after boot. also ifup: failed to bring up eth0:1 |
| 20:24.18 | sbug | and for address you have a network? |
| 20:24.42 | ws2k3 | sbug: hmm what do you mean exacly? |
| 20:24.53 | ws2k3 | yes that network is available on my eth0 |
| 20:24.55 | greycat | Also you have TWO gateway lines. There should be only one. |
| 20:25.14 | greycat | Also you have TWO "dns-nameservers" lines. I'm not sure what that does. It sounds questionable. |
| 20:25.21 | sbug | ws2k3: address should be only an IP. If you add /24 you get a network |
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| 20:25.52 | ws2k3 | sbug: not entirely this way you dont have to do netmask 255.255.255.0 |
| 20:26.18 | sbug | ok my bad |
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| 20:27.09 | ws2k3 | sbug: np thx for responding anyway. and you dont see this very often. so its understandable you didnt knew |
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| 20:39.07 | sbug | ws2k3: https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/setting-up-an-network-interfaces-file/ they do 'auto eth0 eth0:1' before setting them up. I also have auto in my interfaces. Not sure if that matters though |
| 20:39.35 | ws2k3 | sbug: true. auto instead of allow-hotplug fixed it for me. thx again for ur reply |
| 20:39.41 | greycat | "allow-hotplug eth0" means services will not wait for this interface to come up. "auto eth0" means some services *will* wait, if they're configured to do so. |
| 20:39.42 | sbug | cool :) |
| 20:40.00 | Akuw_ | how can i see data that goes to port 53000 |
| 20:40.34 | PaddyF | Akuw_: tcpdump, wireshark |
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| 20:41.44 | PaddyF | !proton |
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| 20:48.33 | PaddyF | proton is massive data. and the install doc is not really encouraging. it requires valgrind and virtualization like qemu or virtualbox. and when you managed to go past all this the game does not run properly. hah! |
| 20:50.45 | seablab | you need steam |
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| 20:51.27 | seablab | steam=trojan |
| 20:51.57 | PaddyF | on windows i didnt need steam, why on linux? |
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| 20:52.39 | jhutchins_wk | !steam |
| 20:52.39 | dpkg | Steam is a proprietary content delivery and management application for PC software with Linux support. Packaged in <non-free>; amd64 users are required to enable <multiarch> and install the steam:i386 package. For help with upstream issues, ask #steamlug on irc.freenode.net. http://wiki.debian.org/Steam |
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| 20:54.58 | PaddyF | nah, thats too much hazzle. i give up before i started with this proton beast |
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| 20:55.16 | PaddyF | i setup dualboot again |
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| 20:57.30 | N9NU | can anyone help me install the required pkgs for using my onboard Intel gpu and my discreet NVIDIA 2060 |
| 20:57.59 | N9NU | is it the bumblebee pkg(s)? |
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| 20:58.46 | PaddyF | !nvidia |
| 20:58.46 | dpkg | Where possible, Nvidia graphic processing units are supported using the open source <nouveau> driver on Debian systems by default. To install the proprietary "nvidia" driver, see https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers or ask me about <nvidia dkms>, <nvidia legacy>; installing this directly from nvidia.com (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia on irc.freenode.net. |
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| 20:59.30 | PaddyF | !intel gpu |
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| 20:59.43 | ws2k3 | i added a second interface into my /etc/network/interface. its for lan access but it seems there is no route created for this network is this normal behavior? |
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| 21:04.37 | thenori | lmao there's a password on the debian live disk apparently |
| 21:04.49 | greycat | !live user |
| 21:04.50 | dpkg | The debian-live images have a user account configured for you to use. username: user ; password: live |
| 21:04.59 | thenori | it suspended bc i ignored it for 5 minutes and i couldn't log back in |
| 21:05.04 | thenori | thank you :laughingcrying: |
| 21:05.22 | thenori | i was like -- ''? 'password'? 'admin'? |
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| 21:06.00 | thenori | as penance I have to type in my wifi password again lol. |
| 21:06.20 | jhutchins_wk | ws2k3: I believe it is. |
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| 21:07.38 | ws2k3 | jhutchins_wk: i know how to add a route. but how to make it persistent? |
| 21:08.15 | greycat | you add an "up route add ..." command to the stanza in /e/n/i I believe |
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| 21:24.29 | jhutchins_wk | ws2k3: I've been doing it on RPM systems, not sure what the Debian orthodoxy is. |
| 21:24.58 | ws2k3 | jhutchins_wk: i added the route in /etc/systemd/network/50-public works fine. thx for ur respondse |
| 21:25.19 | jhutchins_wk | Great! |
| 21:27.52 | msaficko | hi! |
| 21:28.05 | msaficko | Can somebody help me? |
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| 21:28.23 | msaficko | HP C7000 chassis and 6125XLG modul: how many modules are allowed in one chassis? |
| 21:28.30 | msaficko | Couldn't find any reference :( |
| 21:28.48 | nemo | greycat, jelly - everything is working beautifully now. thanks for your suggestion |
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| 21:29.04 | nemo | I mean at some point gotta figure out how to get their stupid thing working on later kernels, but no rush right now |
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| 21:39.02 | kittonian | hi all. is anyone here really good with spamassassin? I have tried repeatedly asking in the #spamassassin freenode channel but no one is ever around and I have two major issues happening. |
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| 21:52.57 | marmathe | hello debian |
| 21:53.04 | marmathe | whats problem with this os |
| 21:53.27 | marmathe | on debian high fan |
| 21:53.29 | greycat | https://bugs.debian.org/ |
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| 21:55.53 | greycat | If "on debian high fan" means "my fan is too fast/loud because my CPU never goes into power-saving mode", then we'll need more details. What version of Debian, what kind of hardware it is. |
| 21:56.14 | greycat | https://bugs.debian.org/ was a response to "whats problem with this os" |
| 21:56.36 | teclo- | or perhaps is he a great fan of Debian GNU/Linux ? |
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| 22:00.04 | anonymous16526 | this is what happens when you create a user-friendly installer |
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| 22:02.36 | twobitsprite | I knew that was a bad idea :P |
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| 22:07.44 | *** join/#debian TESTED123 (~abc@bl8-158-27.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 22:08.00 | TESTED123 | hey. what is a good vulnerability scanner for debian? |
| 22:08.20 | fuxxy | I have a PowerEdge 2950v3. My fans are super loud. I blame Debian. /s |
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| 22:13.05 | twobitsprite | TESTED123: you mean, for scanning for a server for external vulnerabilities? |
| 22:13.26 | twobitsprite | TESTED123: pretty sure those aren't going to be distro-specific |
| 22:13.30 | TESTED123 | scannign my own machine for internal or external vulnearilitesi |
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| 22:14.20 | twobitsprite | TESTED123: nessus is pretty popular |
| 22:14.31 | TESTED123 | it isnt free |
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| 22:15.18 | twobitsprite | they have free individual version |
| 22:15.35 | twobitsprite | unless you mean free as in FOSS |
| 22:16.21 | twobitsprite | a quick google search comes up with Nikto as an open source scanner |
| 22:16.32 | TESTED123 | already got nikto but it is only for web i think |
| 22:17.24 | twobitsprite | well... what else are you running on your system that you want scanned? do you have public ssh access or something? |
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| 22:18.00 | TESTED123 | im runing ssh,httd,prcmap |
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| 22:18.35 | twobitsprite | what is prcmap? |
| 22:18.47 | TESTED123 | rcpmap sorry |
| 22:18.55 | anonymous16526 | what is httd |
| 22:18.58 | TESTED123 | httpd apache |
| 22:19.18 | twobitsprite | you mean rpcmap? |
| 22:19.24 | TESTED123 | yes yes |
| 22:19.25 | TESTED123 | :) |
| 22:19.36 | twobitsprite | why? |
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| 22:20.08 | TESTED123 | dont know default installation :) |
| 22:20.14 | TESTED123 | nmaped it |
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| 22:21.08 | twobitsprite | did you select "file server" or something in the installer? |
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| 22:21.52 | martopoulos | Hi! I'm attempting to do a netboot PXE install of Debian buster, but I get the following error "no packages matching running kernel 5.30-2-amd64 in archive". I'm using the files from 20191129. Is something in the process of being updated and I just got unlucky...? |
| 22:21.56 | twobitsprite | what exactly did nmap say? |
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| 22:22.32 | martopoulos | when I ignore the kernel modules error and move forward in the installer, it gets much further but eventually fails with a mirror error - some missing package |
| 22:23.27 | anonymous16526 | martopoulos: sounds like you are using the wrong files for something |
| 22:23.27 | greg_logan | I'm running a repo for an OSS project which depends on ElasticSearch. We need/want to host a specific version of ES so that the version is fixed. I'm hoping to just rehost their Apache2 binaries, so I won't be building anything. This means mini-dinstall doesn't pick up on the package, since there's not .changes. Anyone have a hint on the next s |
| 22:23.28 | greg_logan | tep? Or a better place to ask? |
| 22:23.38 | anonymous16526 | well, the kernel |
| 22:24.32 | martopoulos | anonymous16526: that's what I thought, but I just freshly downloaded the 20191129 files from a mirror |
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| 22:24.50 | martopoulos | because I've run into mismatches like this in the past and usually it just requires an updated installer |
| 22:25.02 | TESTED123 | filtered ssh,httpd and rpcmap (i used iptables) |
| 22:25.23 | martopoulos | also bizarrely the anna package keeps logging a cryptic error: "stack smashing detected" |
| 22:25.26 | anonymous16526 | possibly but that sounds a little *too* updated |
| 22:25.35 | anonymous16526 | buster's standard kernel is 4.19.0-6 |
| 22:25.39 | anonymous16526 | that includes the installer |
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| 22:26.26 | martopoulos | anonymous16526: yeah that struck me as odd, as well |
| 22:27.50 | martopoulos | oh bleh, the first google result for Debian installer is actually the testing version |
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| 22:28.54 | anonymous16526 | try http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/buster/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ |
| 22:29.00 | martopoulos | thanks |
| 22:29.16 | anonymous16526 | the netboot.tar.gz file there has all the right files |
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| 22:32.24 | nyuszika7h | how do I stop systemd from randomly remounting /run/user/* with smaller size without my consent? |
| 22:32.51 | nyuszika7h | I did `sudo mount -o remount,size=16G /run/user/1011`, and some days later systemd randomly remounted it as 3 GB again |
| 22:33.07 | nyuszika7h | I know I can edit the loginctl config to control the size, I've done that, but didn't reboot the server yet |
| 22:33.19 | nyuszika7h | *logind |
| 22:34.01 | anonymous16526 | maybe you need to `systemctl daemon-reload`? |
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| 22:39.31 | taserface | Also I would like to know what you are putting in there to need more than 3G |
| 22:39.42 | taserface | that's the wrong place to put your porn |
| 22:40.23 | nyuszika7h | lol |
| 22:40.46 | nyuszika7h | my server has 32 GB RAM, so I put temporary files for processing media (before the final step) in tmpfs because why not |
| 22:41.11 | taserface | might I suggest setting up a separate tmpfs mount for that |
| 22:41.31 | taserface | they only take up as much memory as the files are using, so it's basically free |
| 22:41.54 | nemo | hell, if he wants to be sure it's in ram, there's ramfs too I guess |
| 22:42.10 | nemo | not totally sure how tmpfs tunes that decision, but ramfs does not |
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| 22:43.03 | kevinnn | hi everyone! Can anyone tell me where I can get more indepth logs about dpkg? |
| 22:43.05 | taserface | you know, I don't know the difference between tmpfs and ramfs |
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| 22:43.16 | nemo | taserface: tmpfs falls back to swap |
| 22:43.26 | kevinnn | I am trying to install a .deb file and it is failing with this error "package pre-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 1" |
| 22:43.30 | nemo | taserface: ramfs just eventually runs out of ram ⺠|
| 22:43.43 | kevinnn | where are the logs so I can check why it failed |
| 22:44.07 | nemo | taserface: this can be nice if something temporarily spikes your ram so that your tmpfs files don't swap out |
| 22:44.16 | nemo | taserface: aaaand it can be bad if you really really needed that ram ð |
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| 22:44.34 | nemo | "ramfs - guaranteed volatile" |
| 22:44.47 | taserface | So ramfs is not swappable? |
| 22:44.50 | nemo | yes |
| 22:44.53 | taserface | didn't know that |
| 22:44.55 | taserface | I have too much ram |
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| 22:45.30 | taserface | swap files are for common peasants |
| 22:45.38 | nemo | taserface: one thing I like to do on boot is find /path/to/minecraft/worlds -type f -exec cat '{}' > /dev/null \; |
| 22:45.49 | kevinnn | I feel like you guys are ignoring me! |
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| 22:46.09 | nemo | kevinnn: sorry, I didn't know how to answer your question |
| 22:46.14 | nemo | but |
| 22:46.19 | nemo | kevinnn: I do know what the error means |
| 22:46.40 | nemo | kevinnn: you could probably unpack the .deb to toss a bit more debugging in there |
| 22:46.44 | nemo | then repack it |
| 22:46.48 | nemo | I've certainly done that before |
| 22:46.49 | kevinnn | nemo: unpack? |
| 22:46.54 | nemo | sure |
| 22:47.18 | nemo | dpkg-deb |
| 22:47.56 | kevinnn | ah cool, unpacking now... |
| 22:49.34 | nemo | taserface: that sort of deliberate preload into ram can be helpful for anything else you want to be snappy(er) |
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| 23:10.56 | taserface | back |
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| 23:11.14 | taserface | my machine ran of of ram and killed the vm |
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