IRC log for #debian on 20200213

00:01.05terr__I am very tired,  I am going to get some rest.  Maybe even a nap.  thanks for the help guys and I'll take this on later.
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00:02.57ratracebacoder: it's a problem because debian has certain quality and security standards that VBox no longer meets.
00:03.40urxtnwsomiaj, do you happen to know if qemu-tools is able to turn .vdi to .qcow2? I can't seem to find this
00:04.05somiajurxtnw: I don't know.
00:04.31bacoderratrace: from what I see from that link, they do, but Debian can't keep up with all the updates?
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00:04.37bacodercorrect me if I am wrong
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00:04.56sponixurxtnw: just google "how to turn vdi into qcow2 with qemu-tools"
00:05.11somiajurxtnw: a quick google search found a guide that says 'qemu-img convert -f vdi -O qcow2 foo.vdi bar.qcow2'
00:05.24somiajurxtnw: ymmv, so backup of course.
00:05.31sponixsomiaj: I know it was possible, because I've done it before :)
00:05.50urxtnwsomiaj, thank you
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00:06.45sponixbacoder: the way it read to me, was just the Debian life cycle, and vbox major version support cycles do not meet up well enough to support vbox in the main repos
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00:07.14ratracebacoder: no, it's about keeping old releases with only security fixes, that the upstream no longer guarantees. security problems are fixed in new versions which also come with new (often untested) features and that's thus unacceptable to the maintainers.
00:07.23sponixDebian is pretty picky about what makes it in these days. And that can be good or bad depending on your view point
00:08.10somiajbacoder: it is more orcale's corprate policy forbids the vbox devs to help debian backport patches, and debian doesn't have the manpower (and knowledge of the vbox code) to do this themselves, so they cannot support vbox and had to remove it from stable.
00:08.41somiajbacoder: my understanding on this issue is the vbox devs are willing to help (they use to help debian) but oracle's policy is 'only support the current released version'
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00:09.19terr__update-grub and grub-install are present.  I wonder why they weren't found before.  I _think_ I should be installing grub into /dev/sdc (in my case) abut /dev/sdc3 is mounted.  so catch22?
00:09.48somiajin debian stretch, vbox was provided via backport (since backports don't get offical security support and can have new upstream versions added to it) but in buster they decided this is against debian policy, and are currently working out how to deal with vbox (or in other software in the same boat).
00:10.13somiajI kinda hope fasttrack makes some headway and is provided along side backports (at one time backports was just a side project and now it is offical)
00:10.24bacoderI see , personally I don't mind a lot if vbox security bugs
00:10.32bacodera lot with*
00:10.45somiajbacoder: upstream vbox repo isn't that bad, you can just get it from there
00:11.04bacoderI just download a version from their website and stick with it
00:11.04terr__I did the debootstrap into the target HDD.  I can move all this to the boot media.
00:11.11somiajbacoder: yea, but since people maybe running servers with vbox, securty support is essential for it to be offically in debian stable.
00:11.11bacoderworks fine for me
00:11.32somiajyea, that is my suggestion, is just use the upstream package/repo, it is the best bet at this time.
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00:16.03urxtnwsponix, I just conveted vdi to qcow2 and windows 7 is giving me blue screen of death :(
00:16.25sponixurxtnw: isn't that what Windows is supposed to do ?
00:16.36urxtnwhahahahahah
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00:17.10bacoderurxtnw: are you sure you don't want to just download some vbox deb package from oracle?
00:17.22bacoderand just go on with your life?
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00:18.05terr__well - I"m moving the packages from the target HDD to the boot media - and I'll try again.  I think the fog is clearing - this is looking like it makes sense
00:18.19somiajor use vbox to do the conversion for you, maybe make vbox convert .vdi to .img?
00:18.46urxtnwbacoder: this page told me not to do that: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
00:18.59somiajurxtnw: this could be nothing to do with the conversion, but the options you are giving the vm to boot, also note that vbox I think uses different 'virtual hardware' than qemu does (unsure if both use virtrio or not), and windows doesn't like it when its hardware is changed.
00:19.13somiajso it could be the issue is not the conversion, but in making sure qemu provides the same hardware vbox did
00:19.24urxtnwsomiaj, yeah thats the error, it's the hardware
00:19.32somiaj(windows does not like it when you swap out a mobo for instance)
00:19.47urxtnwsomiaj, good point, definitely
00:20.35bacoderurxtnw: well that is general advice, as in general rule of thumb rules, there are particular instances of things however
00:20.36urxtnwsomiaj, I'm better off just installing it again though, than spending hours to trying to fix it
00:20.53bacoderurxtnw: I can tell you that I have been doing that since forever and it has allways worked out for me
00:21.17urxtnwbrb need to switch spots/internet connection
00:21.19bacoderurxtnw: for vbox this is an exception as you have already seen, vbox support in debian is basically non-existent
00:22.29somiaj(though I think the vbox matainers are trying to find a way to get it back into debian in a way that complies with debian's security/support/frozen stable release policy)
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00:22.52somiajbut one would have to wait for at least bullseye for that
00:23.12bacoderdamn that page is so lame
00:23.49bacoderlol why don't they add as well "Dont eat your own shit, and btw don't shoot yourself in the foot, some would claim it hurts and its kinda bad"
00:24.20somiajnot sure what 'page' you're talking about, but it feels off topic.
00:24.32bacoderhttps://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
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00:25.10somiajwell after you see people often breaking things, to a point it cannot be easily fixed, such a page gets created
00:25.45annadaneit's pretty easy to break debian if you don't already know certain things
00:25.57annadaneit's intuitively appealing to mix packages, or add PPA repos, or whatever
00:25.57somiajA lot of people use to the windows delimia don't really understand the difference between static linked libaries, and shared libaries.
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00:26.19somiajwell with windows, you just go find the software you want, download, install, it works.....because of static linked libaries.
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00:27.13bacodersomiaj: wtf are you even talking about... binaries in windows are very often dynamically linked, but are usually also dropped in install dirs
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00:27.44bacoderso it just works
00:28.18somiajbacoder: guess I am over simplifying things, but yea, the binaries usually provide the libaries (guess it shouldn't matter if they are static linked or come with the binary)
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00:28.50bacoderon linux, people tend to re-use libs a lot, but that also comes with a problem that if something is changed on one lib , THE ENTIRE SOFTWARE BASE needs to be compatible with that change as well
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00:29.01bacoderthats one thing I hate about linux
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00:29.19bacoderbut I was forced into using linux because windows 10 is essentially unuseable
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00:29.22somiajits a give take, I like it because software is smaller as a result (less duplication)
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00:29.52bacodersomiaj: yes and as we know nowadays we need to save disk space for those libs (its very important to save disk space!!!)
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00:30.29somiajlinux has tried to do this though, AppImage, snap, flatpak, are the ones that come to mind
00:30.48somiajbacoder: maybe it isn't needed on a desktop, but embeded systems, and virutal machines, space still matters.
00:31.02jaesreswrkkI'm dying.
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00:31.05jaesreswrkkno LXD on Debian
00:31.07jaesreswrkkoof
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00:31.31jaesreswrkkI can't wrap my head around docker. It just feels so horrible, systemd-nspawn doesn't look like it will ever be used in enterprise
00:31.39jaesreswrkkso I don't want to waste my time learning that even though it's neat
00:33.25jaesreswrkkWell not just that
00:33.28jaesreswrkkDocker's future looks bad
00:34.19jaesreswrkkIDK
00:34.21jaesreswrkkany advice?
00:34.30jaesreswrkkwhat container system should I work with
00:34.37somiajMight depend on what software you are using, and your overall goals.
00:34.41somiajWhat is wrong with LXC?
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00:34.47jaesreswrkkI like LXC
00:34.53jaesreswrkkIt's just not as nice to work with as LXD
00:34.54somiaj(LXD is just on top of it, could you get what you want from just using LXC)
00:35.04jaesreswrkkHaving a nice hypervisor is nice
00:35.58somiajas for docker, I haven't used it (though I need to learn, wonder if running docker inside a vm would work), but if the software you need provides docker images, docker is probably the way to go (I have software I'm intersted in using that only provides docker images so I can't use a vm for it)
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00:36.16jaesreswrkkoh god no
00:36.18JackFrostjaesreswrkk: To be fair, the only lxd on Ubuntu is a snap, which could also be installed in Debian.
00:36.34jaesreswrkksomiaj I'm just setting up samba manually
00:36.52jaesreswrkkI want to containerize samba so I can have my NAS more like a pluggable service
00:36.57jaesreswrkkSame with a few game servers and apache
00:37.03jaesreswrkkKinda like chroots, but good
00:37.17somiajAnd you would rather have a container like LXC as opposed to a full vm?
00:37.21jaesreswrkkyea
00:37.35jaesreswrkkThe isolation of a VM is nice but the overhead is not
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00:40.40jaesreswrkkJakeSays aaah
00:40.42jaesreswrkkI'm tryna avoid snaps
00:41.07jaesreswrkkI was thinking of just using systemd-nspawn
00:41.15jaesreswrkkbut I don't know if anyone uses it in production yet
00:41.23jaesreswrkkLXC / LXD / Docker are all in enterprise
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00:43.08JackFrostlxc is actually useful for autopkgtests.  But anyway, you wouldn't be able to install lxd in Ubuntu without using a snap either, soo...
00:43.19jaesreswrkkSad
00:43.24jaesreswrkkBut what should I learn
00:43.37jaesreswrkksystemd-nspawn is so new IDK where it's used
00:44.03jaesreswrkkLXC/LXD has the 100k ton elephant behind it (Canonical) so it's not going anywhere anytime soon
00:44.15cast4dis there any source where i can read about why linux-image-grsec was discontinued on buster? https://wiki.debian.org/grsecurity this page seems to be outdated also
00:44.16jaesreswrkkDocker has Google to rescue them from themselves
00:44.29jaesreswrkkcast4d TL;DR Licensing
00:44.50jaesreswrkkDebian isn't allowed to share the kernel source with gresecurity applied. That doesn't fly with a RYF distro
00:45.15cast4dthank you !
00:45.28jaesreswrkknp. You're better off with things like SeLinux anyways
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00:45.45jaesreswrkkSeLinux has the NSA behind it, so you know it's constantly updated and exploits patched fast
00:45.57JackFrostcast4d: See also: https://grsecurity.net/passing_the_baton_faq
00:45.58jaesreswrkkGrSecurity has dev's that post 0days for other security measures on twitter like candy
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00:46.30JackFrostjaesreswrkk: I believe Debian is leaning more towards apparmor, though.
00:46.42jaesreswrkkIt is and isn't
00:46.47jaesreswrkkit's a bit complex
00:47.02jaesreswrkkalso JackFrost, jasperarcola this is from the GrSecurity page, prepare to laugh
00:47.03jaesreswrkk"Unfortunately, in contrast to Microsoft's post-Windows XP Trustworthy Computing initiative which drastically changed its security trajectory, the Linux community at large has failed to invest adequately in security over the past two decades. Partially due to this, there is no direct alternative to grsecurity or even any option that provides a
00:47.04jaesreswrkksubstantial fraction of grsecurity's features or overall benefits."
00:47.14jaesreswrkk>the Linux community at large has failed to invest adequately in security over the past two decades
00:47.26jaesreswrkkwhat is SeLinux. What is AppArmour, What is the kernel hardening project
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00:47.52jaesreswrkkWhat are cgroups?
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00:48.49jaesreswrkkOverly simplified, strong restrictions that are implemented by the kernel that you can request on a process
00:48.55jaesreswrkkso you can disable a lot of things
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00:50.38cast4d"Today we are handing over future maintenance of grsecurity test patches to the community." this also doesn't make any sense, what exactly they handed to the community?
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00:53.35cast4doh basically they meant they handed over the all old stuff that was publicly released to the community
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01:07.14jaesreswrkk:v
01:07.21jaesreswrkkJackFrost
01:07.36jaesreswrkkI'm thinking of going simpler and just using chrooted systemd services
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01:09.48jaesreswrkkhttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd-nspawn
01:11.23sponixsimple and systemd in the same sentence ?   hmm
01:11.37jaesreswrkksponix what about it?
01:11.46jaesreswrkksystemd simplifies system administration massively
01:12.00sponixsure sure
01:12.18jaesreswrkkIt's also easier to use nspawn than it is to use docker / lxc
01:12.42sponixprobably does for a lot of situations...
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01:13.15sponixBSD or SysV Init has always done just fine for me
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01:13.32jaesreswrkksponix did you have alerts for when the word systemd is said?
01:13.54sponixha
01:14.07jaesreswrkkYou keep making subtle remarks about systemd implying you hate systemd
01:14.17jaesreswrkkthis is #debian not #devuan
01:14.24sponixnope, I'm just always just lurking
01:14.46jaesreswrkkhm
01:15.21bacoderjaesreswrkk: you and your funky secs, linux is a free operating system, security shouldn't even be considered
01:15.52bacoderfreedom is the number one priority, the rest is pretty much "meh"
01:15.53sponixbacoder: who, what ?
01:16.08bacoderxD
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01:16.56jaesreswrkklmao
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01:17.00jaesreswrkkbacoder hey, systemd bad.
01:17.15jaesreswrkkLinux != Unix but it should follow muh unix philosiphy!
01:17.18jaesreswrkk>.>
01:17.46JackFrostjaesreswrkk: That's not helping.
01:17.58jaesreswrkkshrugs
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01:19.02jaesreswrkkHey, I'm not the one who has an alert setup for the word systemd to come make snarky remarks under the guise that I'm not trying to instigate while going on about sysv
01:19.08jaesreswrkkJust saying JackFrost
01:19.15bacoderlook : the best security you can have is not to open "free penis enlargement pills" emails and not running get_pills.pdf.sh
01:19.37bacoder(as root)
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01:20.19JackFrostjaesreswrkk: 'just saying' is a poor excuse, and you're putting words in others mouths.  Perhaps you could just accept that others won't like systemd, even if they do use it?  Maybe we can just move on without mocking others? :)
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01:20.24jaesreswrkkbacoder or just drop uneeded privileges
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01:20.46jaesreswrkkJackFrost Hey, don't join a systemd based distro's channel to push sysv
01:21.00jaesreswrkkor wait until systemd is mentioned to go on how "well systemd is nice but sysv
01:21.02jaesreswrkk"
01:21.40jaesreswrkkeh
01:21.50sponixhmm
01:21.59sponixodd, don't recall it going that way
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01:22.35sponixI just said that systemd and the world "simple" in the same sentence was odd IMHO
01:23.10jaesreswrkksponix you know exactly what your goal was
01:23.19sponixand maybe that is just me perspective of it being new and different. But to me anyway, it seems a LOT more complex than the old BSD and SysV init did
01:23.34jaesreswrkkHave you tried working with it or did you just look at it?
01:23.42jaesreswrkkI used to hate systemd.
01:24.02sponixAnd I didn't see a problem with either. So it is kinda like a solution for a problem that didn't really exist -- to me :)
01:24.35sponixguess he needs to dial in again
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01:25.38bacoderbut seriously though windows 10 is a piece of shit, right?
01:25.39jaesreswrkkoof my connection
01:25.52jaesreswrkkI'm back
01:25.58sponixthanks for the warning
01:26.05jaesreswrkkbacoder I used to look at systemd with a sysv mindset
01:26.18jaesreswrkkI hated it. A giant complex beast
01:26.31jaesreswrkkThen I dropped my sysv mindset and read some of the documents to get started with systemd when debian made the full switch
01:26.45bacoderoh?
01:26.51jaesreswrkkI started to learn about features like dropping privileges and how easy it was to drop them in systemd service files
01:27.18jaesreswrkkAnd how standardized the files where. I can almost guarantee the files I wrote for my debian box will work if I switch to fedora and vice versa
01:27.31jaesreswrkksystemd started to get some cool friends like journald
01:27.56sponixand resolvd lol
01:27.59jaesreswrkkJournald would let you vacuum up all your logs and store them with rsyslogd even if your software didn't like rsyslogd
01:28.17sponixcause everyone needs their init to resolve dns
01:28.17jaesreswrkkBut if you didn't like this, you could just tell systemd in your .service files, please don't vacuum my logs
01:28.28jaesreswrkksponix that doesn't run in PID 1
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01:29.03jaesreswrkkIt's also not mandatory
01:29.27jaesreswrkkbacoder But again with systemd things got really simple
01:29.45jaesreswrkkjournald would let me get to my logs without finding them on the disk, it would let me follow them
01:29.58jaesreswrkksystemd let me easily start and stop services and I could request this over dbus
01:30.06jaesreswrkkNo more invoking bash
01:30.17jaesreswrkkWhen people look at systemd they see a big scary beast
01:30.28jaesreswrkkbut once you break it down into it's many components, systemd is actually quite simple
01:31.28jaesreswrkkjournald is an amazing thing that gets a lot of hate
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01:31.41jaesreswrkkpeople scream 'WHAT IF MY MACHINE SHUTS DOWN AND THE BINARY FILES GET DESTROYED!"
01:31.49jaesreswrkkSame issue with text files, they can get corrupted too
01:32.02jaesreswrkkjournald is meant to be a broker for your logs
01:32.04jaesreswrkknot your logging daemon
01:32.34JackFrostjaesreswrkk: Reminder: This is the Debian support channel, it's a channel for support question regarding Debian.  If you don't have a Debian support question, there's #debian-offtopic where you are free to continue.
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01:33.34jaesreswrkkbacoder sponix if you want to hear more about why not to fear but embrace systemd
01:33.38jaesreswrkkjoin me in #debian-offtopic
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01:36.35urxtnwwhat can I use for creating a USB drive in Debian?
01:37.23urxtnwbesides using dd, I was looking for something with a GUI
01:37.42sponixurxtnw: get the tool from etcher.io website, makes in nice and fancy
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01:39.50urxtnwsponix, thanks! anything in the repos?
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01:40.20sponixurxtnw: I'm sure there is, but not that I know off the top of me head like that
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01:41.59urxtnwsponix, btw with the virtualbox thing, I think I have to convert to .raw first before i use qemu
01:42.12urxtnwsponix, I will try it and see if windows 7 still goes blue screen
01:42.37sponixurxtnw: good luck ... I'd just dump Win 7 in the bin and call it a day personally
01:42.43sponixbut whatever does it for ya
01:43.22JackFrostThat might be the recommended course of action soon though, since it's soon to be unsupported.
01:43.47sponixJackFrost: EOL for 7 already happened 14 Jan 2020
01:44.36JackFrostOh.  Right, thanks.
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01:49.39urxtnwsponix, I need to use photoshop/lightroom sometimes so that's why I use the VM
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01:50.42JackFrosturxtnw: If that works for you then there's no problem, but have you looked those up on Wine's DB?
01:50.44sponixurxtnw: umm, download your free Windows 10 ISO from Microsoft, and use that ?
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01:51.12sponixJackFrost: hmm, not a bad idea
01:52.20urxtnwJackFrost, doesn't wine open up vulnerabilities in your system?
01:52.49abrotmanbecause what?
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01:53.22JackFrostI believe the logic goes that one could then run windows viruses.
01:54.19JackFrostTicho: I am sorry for the ping on your join, but I've always wanted to ask what the third flower's color was, to know if I should be worried? :)
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01:56.18abrotmanthat malware would hopefully not be running as root, and be limited to what your own user can destroy
01:56.24abrotmanif that's even a thing ...
01:57.27urxtnwyou're running executables that can see your files if you're using the program in your distro with your files
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02:03.54abrotmanurxtnw: FWIW, you run a browser too ..
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02:04.58thenorihey everyone o/ I want to run Docker on Debian, but I'm running sid. Y'all think I can just set the repository for buster?
02:05.22sponixthenori: Sid doesn't have Docker ?
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02:05.30sponix,v docker
02:05.31juddPackage: docker on amd64 -- jessie: 1.5-1; stretch: 1.5-1+b1; bullseye: 1.5-2; buster: 1.5-2; sid: 1.5-2
02:05.38sponix,v docker.io
02:05.39juddPackage: docker.io on amd64 -- buster: 18.09.1+dfsg1-7.1+deb10u1; buster-security: 18.09.1+dfsg1-7.1+deb10u1; bullseye: 19.03.5+dfsg1-2; sid: 19.03.5+dfsg1-2
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02:05.57thenoriIndex  of download.docker.com/linux/debian/dists says buster, jessie, stretch, & wheezy
02:06.21sponixthenori: lol .. check your package manager bro.. seems like Sid already had docker
02:06.34sponix"has Docker"
02:06.45thenoriI found it in the package manager, it's 'docker' and not 'docker-ce'
02:07.13sponixcould check "docker.io" also -- at times it is called that
02:07.19thenoriThe site said the difference was relevant idk
02:07.24sponixthat is why I dropped the version thing on both
02:08.36thenoriSo I can just remove the docker repository and run docker or docker.io
02:08.41thenoriWhat's the difference?
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02:10.30thorie2docker - System tray for KDE3/GNOME2 docklet applications
02:10.31thenorijust started learning docker, so with step 1 being remove all packages and step 2 being install a package with a different name I uninstalled the package I got off default repo
02:12.43thenorilooks like they're just certified vs debian maintained version of the same stuff
02:12.47thenorisounds good to me
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02:45.09duude__Hello people
02:45.37duude__I'd check this myself, but I don't have a debian install nearby, could someone please run a quick file -h /bin/sh for me? Does it point to bash or dash?
02:46.05sponixduude__: wait one
02:46.17duude__sponix: gotcha, thank you a lot
02:46.32sponixduude__: dash
02:46.38duude__oh great!
02:46.40duude__Thank you so much :)
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02:50.25abrotmanduude__: depends on the system
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03:06.03fuxxyAnyone running Debian on an ESXi VM - ESXI allows you to place the VM swap space on a different dataset. How would I specify that swapspace in debian?
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04:15.32Wulffuxxy: hello. What does "lsblk" output?
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04:34.12afidegnumhello, how do i get php 7.0 for debian 10?
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04:39.32Wulfafidegnum: really 7.0, not 7.3?
04:40.22afidegnumi'm having a compatibility issue with my scripts
04:40.47Wulfafidegnum: fix the scripts or run them in a docker container
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04:41.16Wulfafidegnum: you could of course try to install the stretch packages or recompiling them for buster. But that's always an ugly solution which is likely to break.
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05:11.48fuxxyWulf, http://paste.debian.net/1130404/
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06:00.18Wulffuxxy: so there's only one disk. I really wonder how it should work.
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06:00.49Wulffuxxy: I assumed that you had created two separate disks
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06:23.06pragomerhow can I create a tar file that preserves all mac-timestaps even when I extract it again?   I tried:  tar --atime-preserve -czf myarchive.tar.gz /myfoldertoarchive
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06:23.34pragomerbut when I extract the file in the folder gets atime and ctime of the extraction
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06:30.04RonWhoCaresIs it possible to install python 2.7 and 3.5 on the same system?
06:30.17WulfRonWhoCares: yes.
06:30.30RonWhoCaresI already have 3.5 installed.  How do I get 2.7 to install?
06:30.38dudzuse your package manager
06:30.44dudzapt search python
06:30.47WulfRonWhoCares: why? it's obsolete.  But try apt install python
06:31.22RonWhoCaresI need to run a command that is limited to work with it
06:31.24dudzapt update;apt search;apt install
06:31.38WulfI just removed python2 from my system.  Thanks debian devs for making this possible!
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06:32.49dudzi don't look to see if python is installed or not
06:32.54dudzi'm sure it is though
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06:34.56dudzyep i got the entire lot of it
06:35.29dudzpython2, python2.7, python3, python3.7
06:35.37dudzpython 3.5
06:35.45jm_pragomer: --atime-preserve is an option for extraction, not for creation of the archive
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06:36.57ayewWulf: I pretty much installed python2 and python3 by default on my system, theres so much stuff still using python2
06:37.06ayewinstall*
06:38.15dudzpython2-gtk
06:38.25dudzheaps of other python- packages on my system
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06:39.10dudzi dont even install them but things i install have them as dependencies
06:39.32jm_in buster ptyhon gives you 2.7 and you can install python3.2 or 3.5 alongside
06:39.49dudzi'm on testing atm, that must be why i have 3.7
06:40.41Wulfayew: really? Like what?
06:40.54ayewhmm, its more on my server computer that its needed
06:41.04ayewwhich is where I run debian anyway...
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06:41.44ayewI can't remember explicitly, but I remember some big software using 2.7. I think calibre only switch to 3.x recently for example.
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07:04.54pragomerjm_: Ok ok... for extraction... so I will try this now. Thank you..
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07:21.24mindlessmissgreetings; I have just spent a considerable amount of time browsing through a catergory in Synaptic - found plenty of interesting sounding software and marked a lot of them for installation. When I finally clcik APPLY I get these errors: E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
07:21.24mindlessmissE: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.
07:21.37mindlessmissE: Unable to correct dependencies
07:21.38mindlessmissE: Unable to lock the download directory
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07:22.59mindlessmissI don't want the damn thing to "forget" all the packages I have selected
07:23.38stewmindlessmiss: the normal solution to "held or broken" is to run something like "apt -f install" or "apt-get -f install" (for --fix-missing)
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07:24.10mindlessmissany suggestions how to solve without having to start over - its was a lot of smaller packages mostly totally 700mb or so
07:24.54mindlessmissstew thanks, I assume Synaptic will probably lose track of what I currently have selected?
07:24.59stewpersonally I like aptitide for solving these kind of dependency problems, its much more flexible, but understanding how to navigate that is, uh, nuanced
07:25.10stewmindlessmiss: it shoudn't lose track, no
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07:25.59stewmindlessmiss: and you should be able to check this. if you run "dpkg -l packagename" for one of the packages you should see that the second column is different fro the first column, indicating a disparity between the current and desired state
07:26.15stew(I've not worked with synaptic much, but this is what I suspect)
07:26.28stewabrotman: wha gwan?
07:27.20mindlessmissthanks stew.. fingers crossed lol
07:27.51stewcheck it? show us what you see for some "dpkg -l packagename"?
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07:28.51mindlessmissdpkg -l png2html
07:28.51dpkgNo packages found matching png2html
07:28.52mindlessmissdpkg-query: no packages found matching png2html
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07:33.24stewjudd: versions png2html
07:33.25juddPackage: png2html on amd64 -- jessie: 1.1-5+b1; stretch: 1.1-6; bullseye: 1.1-7; buster: 1.1-7; sid: 1.1-7
07:33.28stewOMG
07:33.43stewjudd: I am your father. I'm so happy you are still alive
07:33.44juddNo package named 'am' was found in buster/amd64.
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07:33.57stewi'm seriously chuffed that judd still exists, who is running that?
07:34.07stewI own whoever some brown water
07:34.44mindlessmissseems to be working now, thanks
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07:34.54stewmindlessmiss: if dpkg -l doesn't know what it is that synaptic hasn't yet told the rest of the debian package manager things about your desires
07:35.07stewbut ok. happy its working!
07:35.17mindlessmissthank you =)
07:35.57stew!qotd
07:35.57dpkgQuote of the Day.  Ask me about <qotd0> to get a random one.  See <literal qotd0> for which numbers are used already and <qotdx> for which numbers have been voted as "replaceable".  At 300 (2018-03-30).
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07:36.03stew!qotd0
07:36.03dpkg<{Fatalfury}> hi, do u know a way to limit the /proc directory size? now it's over 500MB and i have a very little hd
07:36.30mindlessmisslol
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07:37.31cucohi all, I am running irssi right now, and looking for other alternatives. What do you recommend?
07:38.27jm_maybe weechat
07:39.26cuco@jsm_: nice, will look into it. irsse works, but feel so.. "90"... perl extensions?
07:39.57BazookaToothweechat is an updated spin of irrsi
07:39.58jm_heh if it was for me having perl would be a major plus
07:41.03stewirssi, yes
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07:41.19jm_irssi also supports python, tcl, lua and javascripts
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07:41.58jm_ahh maybe debian's build doesn't?
07:43.54stewand those other ones don't have a $[ variable, so they are less programmer friendly than perl
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08:39.09quarterback_Graphics problem seems to have gone. All windows are fast in Gnome with debian 64 version compared to i386.
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08:39.20quarterback_Video card is also detected correctly.
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08:41.12quarterback_is schedutil CPU governor better than ondemand if I don't require lot of CPU performance and for saving energy?
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09:13.43b1ack0phi
09:14.00b1ack0pwhen i ran update&upgrade command i faced some warnings : http://paste.debian.net/plain/1130420
09:14.07b1ack0pwhat are they about and what can i do?
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09:15.54towo^workb1ack0p, if you have intel graphics, install firmware-misc-nonfree, if not, ignore them
09:16.06b1ack0pi have intel
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09:16.39towo^workmore precise, if you have intel graphics >= skylake
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09:19.57b1ack0pthis is my dmesg : http://paste.debian.net/plain/1130421
09:20.00b1ack0pthere are some errors
09:20.05b1ack0phow can i fix them?
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09:20.24b1ack0p[  551.385645] xfdesktop[5795]: segfault at 1c ip 00007f25ec4639ea sp 00007ffec8479670 error 4 in libglib-2.0.so.0.5800.3[7f25ec413000+7e000]
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09:20.45ZAJDANhi...what type of error will return rsync when remote side has no space on disk?
09:20.51b1ack0p[  327.956495] xfdesktop[5438]: segfault at 1c ip 00007f57188709ea sp 00007ffd101e5880 error 4 in libglib-2.0.so.0.5800.3[7f5718820000+7e000]
09:20.55ZAJDANError in file I/O ?
09:21.06b1ack0p[  310.955846] xfdesktop[1267]: segfault at 1d ip 00007f86a5f1f9ea sp 00007ffd228034e0 error 4 in libglib-2.0.so.0.5800.3[7f86a5ecf000+7e000]
09:22.13jm_b1ack0p: that's an application crash
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09:23.04b1ack0pthese are the errors in dmesg : http://paste.debian.net/plain/1130423
09:23.16b1ack0pjm_: how can i find out which app error is that?
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09:25.13jm_ZAJDAN: «rsync: write failed on "...": No space left on device (28)» for me
09:25.38ZAJDANjm_ thank for the info
09:25.47jm_b1ack0p: it tells you, xfdesktop (twice, with different PID)
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09:26.14ZAJDANjm_ such code number is not here int the list
09:26.19b1ack0pactually 3 times with different pid
09:26.23jm_ZAJDAN: what list?
09:26.31jm_yeah missed that first one
09:26.33ZAJDANhttps://lxadm.com/Rsync_exit_codes
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09:26.48jm_you mean 28?
09:27.16jm_those are rsync exit codes, the 28 is errno -- try «errno 28»
09:27.32ZAJDANjm_ yes the 28
09:27.49b1ack0pbut how can i know which app is that?
09:28.02b1ack0pall 3 same app ?
09:28.47jm_uhm, xfdesktop binary, from the xfdesktop4 package
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09:30.25b1ack0pmaybe it is temporary error
09:30.58jm_found a few crash related bug reports for that package, but with different characteristics
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09:32.04b1ack0pok
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09:33.33jm_so if you don't know how to debug that further try submitting a bug report
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09:37.24PaddyFi think i submitted 5 bug reports in the whole time of using debian. and 3 of them got not feedback at all
09:37.46tarzeauPaddyF: your submitter email address?
09:38.29PaddyFnot sure, 4 of those 5 reports are years old. why would you need my address?
09:38.48PaddyFi could try to find out
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09:40.10tarzeauPaddyF: to look and maybe answer?
09:40.17tarzeauPaddyF: mine are 20 years old :) so what?
09:40.19PaddyFcool
09:40.23PaddyF:D
09:40.31ZAJDANjm_   do you know how to catch the rsync errno 28?  something like: if [ "$?" -eq "28" ]
09:40.53PaddyFtarzeau: the last one was a bit weird, i admit but here we go: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=939161
09:40.54juddBug https://bugs.debian.org/939161 in gdm3 (open): «gdm3: blank screen when booting without firmware-linux-nonfree»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-09-01; last modified: 2019-09-01.
09:41.29jellyZAJDAN: first store $? in a variable, you might want to check for other values in the future
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09:41.42jm_ZAJDAN: no, that won't work, 28 is not in $?
09:42.49tarzeauPaddyF: looked at the three open ones, can't help sorry
09:43.00PaddyFthanks for checking, tarzeau
09:43.56jm_ZAJDAN: I get exit code 11, which matches with your exit codes table from before
09:44.06PaddyFwhen i heard in a talk that quite a few debian developers have hundreds of bug reports to manage for certain packages i was stunned
09:44.33ZAJDANjm_ ok...thank You
09:44.48b1ack0pso they need help :p
09:44.50jellyI wouldn't be surprised if there were packages with a thousand open bug reports
09:44.57b1ack0pthat s why i try to be developer :p
09:44.57PaddyFb1ack0p: yeah :)
09:44.58b1ack0plol
09:45.26PaddyFb1ack0p: are you a maintainer already?
09:45.30b1ack0pwait for me bugs :p
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09:45.34b1ack0pPaddyF: no not at all
09:45.40b1ack0pi am nothing lol
09:45.47PaddyFor everything
09:45.56b1ack0pwell i am just nothing at the moment :p
09:45.58b1ack0pnobody lol
09:46.22PaddyFat the moment i try to help by stopping to cause drama
09:46.28b1ack0pi am not in CS field :p
09:46.37b1ack0pwhat drama?
09:46.49PaddyFno comment :)
09:46.52tarzeaujelly: it's not that bad, i got a bts mirror with stats:
09:47.11PaddyFb1ack0p: hang on, i come back to the offtopic place
09:47.20b1ack0pokkk
09:47.22tarzeaujelly: http://bootes.ethz.ch/bts/ says: only 174493 active/open bugs, archived 834778
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10:04.50ZAJDANis possible with rsync delete all on remote?
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10:06.10ratraceZAJDAN: in what context? rsync can delete files in destination that are missing in source
10:06.25ratrace(see --delete and --delete-excluded flags)
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10:07.19ZAJDANon source I wan to keep 30day(daily backup) and on remote want to keep only last(from today))
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10:07.49ratraceZAJDAN: why aren't you using something like rsnapshot? It's a rsync based tool exactly for that purpose...
10:08.19ZAJDANretrace: the remote is synology NAS
10:08.26ratraceso?
10:08.33ratraceif you can rsync, you can use rsnapshot too
10:08.43ZAJDANIam not sure if such tool have to be also on remote
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10:09.03ZAJDANok..let say...with pure rsync it is not possible
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10:11.23jellysynology has their own ecosystem with packages and updates, you can probably find one of dozen rsync wrappers to install on the NAS
10:11.35jellyor something better like restic or borg
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10:13.46ratraceZAJDAN: if you can rsync, you can use rsnapshot too. rsync requires the remote side to have the rsync tool, you otherwise can't use it.
10:14.07ZAJDANok..thank you gonna look
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11:10.39PaddyFis there a game in the archive similar to theme hospital?
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11:11.27hentiCorsix TH
11:11.33PaddyFi wanna use the network of people not a search tool
11:12.10PaddyFin case there is people at all, of course
11:12.44petn-randallPaddyF: You want to use the network of people for what exactly?
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11:13.23PaddyFi want to use the network of people to find out of there are any games in the debian archive that are similar to the proprietary game theme hospital
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11:16.05hentiHas there been any changes to apt sources lately .. my update broke last night with "E: The repository 'http://mirror.ox.ac.uk/debian stretch Release' does no longer have a Release file."
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11:16.18hentiPaddyF: apt-cache search would be quicker :P
11:16.45PaddyFugh
11:16.58hentiPut still. https://packages.debian.org/stable/corsix-th
11:17.39PaddyFhenti: now i managed to catch it, thanks a bunch
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11:32.08hentiany ideas why update is breaking ?
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11:35.48quarterback_A interesting problem I saw was that my hdd was switching off and on during installation of debian and other distros. The real problem seems to be lack of computer case cooling .When the HDD was taken out of the case and connected to a sata port, linux installed worked fine. When hdd heats up, it switches off and on every few seconds or minutes.
11:36.55petn-randallhenti: Can you paste the full output of `apt update` to https://paste.debian.net?
11:36.57quarterback_Its a seagate 160 GB hdd
11:37.35ratracequarterback_: sounds like a very old drive. checked its S.M.A.R.T attributes?
11:38.05quarterback_ratrace, Smart attributes seem fine without any errors. the only error I got was air_flow intake or something.
11:38.23quarterback_ratrace, It looks like a old drive with 45000 hours on it.
11:38.34quarterback_but I bought it as "new".
11:38.40ratraceyou were duped
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11:38.49quarterback_Seems so.
11:39.02ratracecould be so worn out mechanically that it easily overheats.
11:39.09eypoOMG, 45k hours... it deserves retirement
11:39.34quarterback_How many hours do HDD's last? I'm guessing it can put on another 10000 hours atleast.
11:39.41ratraceit's older than Kirk Douglas (in comparative HDD years), and even HE is RIP.                        (too soon?)
11:39.46quarterback_if proper cooling is provided for it.
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11:40.24eypoI usually replace HDDs when they reach 25k hours or so
11:40.33ratracewhy risk it. you can get 10x bigger disks nowadays for realtively little money
11:40.57quarterback_eypo, Actually, HDD"s are reliable for first 50000 hours or upto 45000 hours. The actual data is 55 TB writes per year.
11:41.13eypoor even get a comparable sized SSD for just a few bucks
11:41.20ratracethough this is a seagate, so it's probability for failure is a bit higher
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11:41.41quarterback_Seagate < western digital although their marketing hype is high.
11:41.54ratrace"just a few bucks" SSDs are probably one of those with faulty firmware. Beware of those. I'd only get well known SSD quality brands.
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11:42.23quarterback_How many hours do SSD's last if you write less than 50 TB/ year?
11:42.40eyporatrace, I mean Kingston or WD Blue, not those unknown chinese drives
11:42.42ratracequarterback_: https://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead/
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11:43.10eypoor even Crucial bx.
11:43.12ratraceeypo: yeah. Kingston, WD, Samsung or Intel (newer ones)
11:43.39quarterback_ratrace, It seems that hard drives ( the normal ones) last longer if you write less than 55 TB/year although not at once. They can go more than 3 years.
11:43.40ratracecheap-o SSDs will kick a bucket at 50TB TLBs written
11:44.07ratracequarterback_: HDD longevity isn't measured with data written
11:44.32quarterback_ratrace, It is with number of terabytes written and hours it is run.
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11:45.12quarterback_ratrace, I am not a expert on HDD's. I just read this somewhere.
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11:45.50ratracedata written has no (significant) impact on HDDs
11:46.18ratraceit _may_ correlate with the head wearing out due to a lot of seeks over time but that would apply to reads as well, not just writes
11:47.01quarterback_HDD's are very sensitive to temperature though. If temperature becomes high due to lack of airflow, it may fail even if that is temporary.
11:47.08quarterback_Then it will start to work again.
11:47.08jm_I wonder if that'll still hold true with new technology drives
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11:47.44quarterback_Newer technology seems to solve these problems.
11:48.03ratracewhat kills drives is:  1) age, so mechanical parts get worn out. 2) imperfections in manufacture where parts lose magnetism related abilities over time so bad sectors start cropping up, 3) age so electronic components get worn out (like condensers primarily)
11:48.20ratraceso age is number one drive killer
11:48.29quarterback_I sort of agree
11:48.51ratraceyes temperature is a factor as well, but due to mechanical forces, so part of 1)
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11:49.33eypoIIRC HDDs wearing is correlated to the load cycle count
11:49.34ratracebut I recall reading some papers where temperature wasn't as significant contributor as one would think. as in, yes it made an impact, but little one
11:50.05eypoAnyone remember those WD green that parked heads after 5 seconds idle?
11:50.06Ede|Popedeeypo, what about 79498 them? ;)
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11:50.30quarterback_I am in a tropical country where the average temperature is like 27 to 33 C throughout the year. So the weather is a big HDD killer here.
11:50.31jm_yeah luckily WD has a tool to disable that
11:51.02eypoEde|Popede, your disk must be enterprise-grade...
11:51.09quarterback_If you are in a colder country, your hardware could last longer.
11:51.22Ede|PopedeST380011A, must be from the beginning of the 00 years
11:51.30Ede|Popedeor maybe even older
11:52.37eypois saving for new SSDs. Damn data hoarding...
11:54.02ratracequarterback_: probably not. colder climate means higer differences between power-off and power-on states, which translates to more stress and thus less durability
11:54.25hentipetn-randall: https://paste.debian.net/1130442/
11:55.12ratracelike a good old cold boot from 16°C to 40°C working temperature, every morning. stressy stress gets the kick!
11:55.55quarterback_ratrace, I see, but indoors are usually at 18 to 22 C in any home. I lived in colder climates and my room temp was like 68F or about 22 C
11:56.12korhojoai have drives that have over 80k hours. just never power the machines off, or let them cool down, they'll run for a long time
11:56.18quarterback_ratrace, Computers function well at 22 to 24C.
11:57.14ratracethat really depends. you can have offices not heated overnight so you come in to nice cool 15C in the morning. Or a workshop/garage that cooled off to balmy 5C. Or a weather station that cooled down to -10C after powerloss....
11:57.22hentiI've also attemped changing to "deb.debian.org" and "oldstable" with similar results.
11:57.22korhojoawhat were the limits intel/google discovered with their 'outside air' dc's? just a higher failure rate, but still very close to measurement error or something?
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11:57.34eypohenti: edit /etc/apt/sources.list. Replace every occurrence of mirror.ox.ac.uk with ftp.uk.debian.org. Save, run apt update and then apt upgrade
11:58.17Ede|Popedekorhojoa: said disc runs the system, so nearly no shutdowns
11:58.46Ede|Popedebut yeah, too many too extreme temperature changes kill even bulbs
11:59.35quarterback_ratrace, I have heard of people using 10 year old HDD's too.
11:59.44hentieypo: https://paste.debian.net/1130445/
11:59.55ratracekorhojoa: https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/03/23/too-hot-for-humans-but-google-servers-keep-humming
12:00.23ratracequarterback_: well yes, and just as some people live to see 100years, most don't :)
12:00.56quarterback_ratrace, Processors may work 30 years or more. I dont know about HDD's. Seems nearly impossible.
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12:01.06korhojoaratrace: yeah google does this in their finnish dc's as well. people work in t-shirts even in the middle of winter
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12:01.36eypohenti: are you running behind a proxy?
12:01.43ratracequarterback_: https://www.zdnet.com/article/heat-doesnt-kill-hard-drives-heres-what-does/
12:02.36hentieypo: bingo .. thank you .. :)
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12:02.54eypohenti: you're welcome
12:02.56ratracekorhojoa: that's why EPYC will win the datacenters. lower frequencies means lower power rating, but there's a ton of cores per chip to offset that.
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12:04.03korhojoaratrace: i'm hoping for arm64 and riscv
12:04.21korhojoai just want 256 arm64 cores in one server
12:04.50ratracekorhojoa: whatever dethrones Intel, works fine :)
12:05.09korhojoadpkg noooo
12:05.10ratracekorhojoa: heard of Cavium ThunderX?
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12:05.31korhojoaratrace: yeah. wanna send me some compute nodes?
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12:06.09ratracekorhojoa: you can rent them from packet.com :)
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12:08.25korhojoaratrace: it's just not the same unless i can touch it in my rack
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12:10.27ratracekorhojoa: why are you in the aisles touching servers to begin with! o.O
12:10.51korhojoanobody bothers me in the dc
12:11.25korhojoawhat happens in the hot aisle stays in the hot aisle?
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12:15.20ratraceespecially in vegas :)
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13:59.25jelly!qotd0
13:59.25dpkg<tcsetattr> build-essential contains all of the ... um ... essential stuff. For building.
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14:02.57Haohmaru!qotd
14:02.57dpkgQuote of the Day.  Ask me about <qotd0> to get a random one.  See <literal qotd0> for which numbers are used already and <qotdx> for which numbers have been voted as "replaceable".  At 300 (2018-03-30).
14:03.06Haohmaru!qotd0
14:03.06dpkg< runedude> I dont hire any admins. My dad sets up router settings. He has a degree in  computers. now shush. Lol. It's not changing, and thats that.
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14:07.17thenorihey debiants o/ I have a couple questions
14:07.28Haohmarudebi ants?
14:07.37thenoridebian + deviants
14:07.46Haohmaruuh
14:08.06thenoriidk anyways how do I deal with link groups and update-alternatives?
14:08.30thenoriI have firefox-dev installed and I want to use it as my default browser so I can open it with super-w
14:08.55thenoriI know how to make a symbolic link, but idk how to make link groups
14:10.22jelly,v firefox-dev
14:10.23juddNo package named 'firefox-dev' was found in amd64.
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14:12.31thenoriSecondly, is there a way to either list the packages that would be broken as a result of a given upgrade OR a way to list what packages have been manually installed at a specific version?
14:12.54thenorihttps://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/developer/
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14:13.18jellythenori: if you take a look inside /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-esr.postinst, it seems to use --slave option for update-alternatives
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14:16.19iateadonutmy hard drive seemed to be failing, so i copied it over to a new one with pv /dev/sda > /dev/sdc.  i installed the new hard drive and one partition is not working
14:16.20thenorijelly, why is the 'slave' linked to /usr/share/man/man1/firefox-esr.1.gz?
14:16.22tripkinthenori: you should be able to simply bind super+w to the command using your keyboard bindings settings in whatever desktop you are using
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14:16.58thenoriYeah I guess I could do that, another advantage is that it'd open links from other apps in the browser of my choice
14:17.04iateadonuti'm re-copying the one partition with pv /dev/sdc1 > /dev/sda1 - i'm wondering if it's better to use 'dd' or if this is the proper way to do things?
14:17.09jellythenori: so that you can do "man x-www-browser" ?
14:17.35jellyiateadonut: that's just fine
14:17.48thenoriI just don't see where --slave is called with the actual firefox binary rather than the man pages
14:18.11iateadonuti suppose i could also just mount both partitions and do a 'cp -rp'
14:18.18thenoriOh!
14:18.37thenoriupdate-alternatives --install -- "If the master symlink specified exists already
14:18.37thenori<PROTECTED>
14:18.41iateadonutjelly, thanks.  hopefully this works; otherwise i'll try the 'cp' method.  if that doesn't work, it's a mysql partition and i have my db's backed up and will have to redo everything.
14:18.52iateadonutreckon there are any options in this that i'm missing?
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14:19.06jellyyou could have just copied the files
14:19.25thenori@iateadonut, if you're looking for a more optimal solution, rsync works better than cp
14:19.47jellyiateadonut: and /dev/sdc1 is unmounted during the copying, right?
14:20.06thenori@jelly Thanks for the helping me find my way :)
14:20.46iateadonutthat's right.  i'll use rsync instead if it doesn't work.
14:20.57iateadonutthe two partitions are currently unmounted during the retry of 'pv'
14:22.29thenoriY'all don't think I'd encounter any issues with symlinking the .desktop file instead of the binary, do you?
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14:22.37iateadonutyeah, i probably should have just copied the files instead of pv right now.  i used 'pv' the first time to keep the partition table and UUID's.
14:22.58iateadonutanyway, it says 15 minutes left so if it doesn't work, 'rsync' it is.  and if that doesn't work; restore from backup.
14:23.01thenori@iateadonut, if the partition isn't working have you tried fsck?
14:23.11iateadonutyes
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14:23.43iateadonutthat's how i fixed the original drive.  i guess ssomething happened with pointers on the new drive.
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14:25.54iateadonutthis was the mysql error: [ERROR] [FATAL] InnoDB: Tablespace id is 12693 in the data dictionary but in file ./mysql/plugin.ibd it is 12699!
14:26.15iateadonutbut i just realized that has nothing to do with the inode and only to do with the files.
14:26.54iateadonutso re-copying won't work, right?  i should just purge all this and restore from backup
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14:27.52thenoridepends how valuable the data is
14:28.03thenoriSalvage is an option
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14:30.46thenoriThis is what brought me success btw
14:31.01thenori"sudo update-alternatives --install /usr/bin/gnome-www-browser gnome-www-browser /usr/share/applications/firefox-dev.desktop 80"
14:31.19thenorifirefox-esr's priority was 70 fwiw
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14:32.42thenoriSo, my second question -- How would I go about searching for all packages I've installed with apt manually *and specified the version*?
14:33.01jelly"not easily, if at all"
14:34.47thenoriWell then, a different approach -- where are terminal input logs stored?
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14:36.15jellythenori: nowhere.  I run all my apt installs and upgrades under "script -a upgrade.log.$(date -I). or similar
14:36.55thenoriHmm. Could you explain that in more detail? That sounds very useful.
14:36.56jellylogging all terminals all the time by default would be a privacy risk
14:37.14thenoriWell, I can press up and get a whole lot of commands
14:37.20thenoriSo I assume the last day or two is stored somewhere
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14:37.54zykotick9thenori: "history" might be what you are looking for?
14:38.10thenoriI've just found /var/log/apt/history.log
14:38.16quarterbackI changed CPU frequency scaling governor to schedutil and the cpu clock is at its lowest. The machine is mostly idle with CPU utilization of about 5%
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14:39.32jellythenori: your interactive shell keeps some history, that's what you get with the cursor Up key
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14:40.15thenori@Jelly I meant could you explain your apt logging script
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14:43.56jellythenori: "script" is a tool that creates a new tty and shell and logs all output to a file.
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14:46.59thenoriInteresting!
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14:47.52thenoribtw -- since I have a new install and I'm quite curious how far back this goes -- Does your /var/log/apt/history.log file go back to your installation or is it truncated?
14:48.09thenorizgrep 'Commandline: apt' /var/log/apt/history.log /var/log/apt/history.log.*.gz
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14:51.00iateadonutthenori, jelly, thanks.  i figured out that it was a mysql pointer rather than an inode pointer thanks to your rubber ducking.  (also i appreciate your input on the rsync/pv stuff)
14:51.13thenori:D My pleasure
14:53.35iateadonutupgraded to an SSD so this is exciting.  i have 2 hard drive caddies in this laptop.
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14:57.22masoniateadonut: I swapped my T420 into running two SSDs with an encrypted ZFS mirror as root. Very fun stuff, having that kind of redundancy in a laptop.
14:58.19thenoriyayyyyy that's awesome!
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15:03.37thenoriSo yeah finding what packages I've installed manually at a specific version was actually really easy!
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15:06.24thenorizgrep 'Commandline: apt install' /var/log/apt/history.log /var/log/apt/history.log.*.g | grep '='
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15:08.58thenoriThat gave me exactly what I needed :) all I had to do was apt-mark hold everything listed and bing bang boom I can go on chasing full-upgrade
15:09.42terr__help me with a command please:  there should be a command that shows what partitions are mounted where.  This is not in fstab because I am doing manual mounts and I do have notes and besides I can unmount and remount - but I have 11 partitions on 4 drives in this computer and I keep losing track
15:09.50thenorilsblk
15:10.01thenori@terr__,
15:10.16terr__perfect!!!
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15:10.56terr__13 partitions!  13 is my lucky number
15:11.21cgi777I got a .deb file from another group, which I need to install for my python package. I dont want to put it on git. What is the best way to get and install a deb file in a python package installer?
15:12.14thenori@cgi777, don't put it in the python package installer lol, just list it as a dependencyt in the README
15:12.41terr__is there a way in a Konsol terminal that I can change the title so I remind myself what that terminal is doing?
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15:14.49terr__I know one way... kluge - make a file: not whoami,  whereami.  then I can always run /whereami
15:15.05cgi777I need the installer to work automatically - so README does not work
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15:15.21terr__cgi777, I am working on this now
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15:16.06terr__I opened a window for us.
15:16.11terr__meet me there
15:16.25terr__cgi777
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15:17.34jellyterr__: hostname command exists, and most shells have a way to put the hostname in the prompt
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15:17.53jellymost shells also have a way to set terminal window title
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15:18.39jellyin zsh it's %m in PS1 variable
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15:18.50terr__jelly only one host.  All this stuff is running on one host - I am making a rescue disk.  I need to be able to run grub and pick up dangling partitions... run ddrescue etc...
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15:20.10terr__I am goign to start ddrescue to copy a windows partition - before I resize it.  I want that partition copied over to a BIG backup drive and then I'll boot the machine from the backup and once I KNOW its working - then I'll resize... and do a proper Linux install on the interanl HDD
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15:20.55terr__jelly, I know that backup will take time!
15:21.16terr__and I have four (4) machines to do.
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15:22.58ratracebooting into a backup installation sounds like a bad idea unless you have a backup of the backup.
15:23.26terr__the problem I have is that I'm going to FREEZE the windows machines.  they will not even be on the net.  Their purpose is to run some CNC apps and as long as they can go it then fine - let them do their jobs.  Like I wouldn't even use windows if I could avoid it.
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15:24.06terr__so if a drive dies?  Just copy a backup over and replace it - like a hot spare.
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15:29.18twobitspriteanyone know of a way/tool to record the real memory usage of a program throughout it's execution? i.e, not top(1), but something more like strace but for memory usage, if that makes sense
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15:31.46thenorii got lots of results from ?ddg linux memory trace tool
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15:33.32ayekatso I just ran a dist-upgrade, and some package upgrades gave a warning - is there a log file that would contain these warnings?
15:34.32ayekat(in particular, GRUB gave a warning about missing the BIOS boot partition, which is indeed troublesome - but I've already done 2 dist-upgrades and reboots of that same machine before, so I'm trying to find out if that warning was already there in the previous upgrades, and is thus not a fatal problem)
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15:35.05thenoriI know the answer to this one!
15:35.14ratraceayekat: there isn't. jelly recently gave everyone great idea to run apt opts inside a script(1) shell.
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15:35.26thenoriNo! Those logs would have to be tracked manually for example in a script shell
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15:35.48ayekathmm... so I can't see warning messages from previous dist-upgrades if I didn't run them in script
15:35.48thenoriThere is a logfile with all of your apt commands, just not the output
15:35.51ratraceayekat: in this case, you need a partition of type "bios_grub" to hold the GPT bootloader code
15:36.00ayekatthenori: yes, I've discovered that - unfortunately, no output :-|
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15:36.16ayekatratrace: yes, I know that - I'm just wondering how this system could boot in the first place ^^
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15:36.51ayekat(wasn't me who set up this system)
15:37.00ratraceayekat: well, if the problem is peristent, re-running `update-grub` should complain again
15:37.03ayekatI'm just doing maintenance work on something someone else has set up years ago
15:37.16ratraceayekat: are you within a chroot perhaps?
15:37.22ayekatratrace: no warnings from update-grub
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15:37.31thenoriLinux can boot without a grub bootloader!
15:38.17thenoriAs long as it finds a boot block and a boot kernel, it persists.
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15:39.17ratraceayekat: oh maybe it's grub-install that complains about those. You can re-try installing grub to the same device
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15:40.09ratracethenori: perhaps you're talking about EFI and ESP containing the kenel, as "boot block" is not really a term?
15:40.23ratrace(and yea, EFI does not require bios_grub partitions, only a FAT32 ESP)
15:40.30ayekatratrace: hmm, let me see how exactly the grub postinst invokes grub-install...
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15:43.05jellythenori: there's is _some_ output in /var/log/apt/term* but I'm not sure how exhaustive it is, and there probably is no output from debconf UIs and similar stuff
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15:44.18ayekatalright, so it's grub-pc, and the postinst (which appears to be already slightly pre-hard-coded) leads me to believe that it runs `grub-install --target=i386-pc --no-floppy --grub-setup=/bin/true "$(grub-probe -t drive /boot/grub)"`
15:44.41ayekatin my book, there is indeed an issue if the BIOS boot partition is missing
15:44.58ayekatyet this machine has already succesfully booted twice now - which is the thing that confuses me most
15:45.17ratraceayekat: via EFI? or isn't GPT at all?
15:45.32ayekatfdisk says: `Disklabel type: gpt`
15:45.57ayekatratrace: oh... but something is even weirder: the root partition is located on a partition that has the `EFI system` type
15:46.00ayekatO_o
15:46.06ratracethewhatnow........
15:46.07ayekatI'm gonna have to complain to someone here
15:46.14ratraceroot!
15:46.25ayekat("here" as in "in my office")
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15:46.57ratracetake the PFY with you and make sure you ridicule well, whomever is responsible.
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16:00.37shivwhen we resize a partition using Gparted why do we move the arrows from left side and not right side since it looks like the right side is empty on the disk presentation?
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16:03.17brunosalim‏becaouse logic MAKE YOU only able to partiotion the rest of the space
16:04.22brunosalim‏you must wipe the left side to repartion the lefet side
16:05.28ws2k3i added a repo but debian still uses he package from the debian repository? how can i install it from thenewly add repo? can i maby use something like apt-cache search to see which repo offer me which version?
16:05.33brunosalim‏i mean when you wipe the left side , will make the whole thing left
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16:07.55brunosalim‏try apt update
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16:09.03brunosalim‏then apt install 'what ever'
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16:10.08ws2k3brunosalim: it looks like apt it not picking up the repo
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16:10.37greycatws2k3: confirm that with apt-cache policy whateverpkg
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16:13.18brunosalim‏cat /etc/apt/sources* | grep 'the repo you looking for'
16:13.41greycatthat won't pick up all of the files
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16:13.50greycatthere can be some in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ also
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16:14.33zerocoolthis has to be easy... how can i convert UTC datetime into another timezone?
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16:15.07greycatlike, a log file with some human-readable timestamps at the start of each line?
16:15.10zerocoolclosest i can get changes the hour by +/-n but the date doesn't change
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16:15.35zerocoolgreycat: yes, for ASA logs
16:15.48greycatprobably something in perl, python, tcl, etc.
16:16.10zerocoolthat's what I'm starting to think, i almost have it with `date` but not quite there
16:16.16ZAJDANhttps://stackoverflow.com/questions/2548235/convert-utc-datetime-to-another-time-zone
16:16.18greycatyou'd need to read each timestamp string, un-format it into some machine-usable form, then re-format it as a new string in the desired timezone
16:16.28shivbrunosalim, does it matter left or right?
16:16.40zerocoolright
16:16.41greycatyou do NOT want to invoke date(1) for every single line of a log file
16:16.56*** join/#debian bashquest (~bash0r@unaffiliated/bashquest)
16:16.58greycatthus, doing this is bash is lunacy
16:17.42jellyI use perl to get human-readable timestamps from unix epoch seconds in a log
16:17.48zerocoolgreycat: its for like 10 - 50 lines at a time
16:17.52zerocoolit's not the entire log
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16:18.21greycatwell, clearly you aren't even succeeding with a single line using date(1), so why not throw that away and get out the real tools?
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16:19.05greycatpick whichever *real* language you know best (not sh or bash)¸and use that
16:19.09jellyzerocool: if you show a couple dozen lines of actual log, someone might take pity on you
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16:20.00zerocooljelly: it's for communicating with outside parties that the issue is not on our end, logs are to demonstrate clean connects/disconnects as seen from the ASA, specific events
16:20.31jellyno need to explain more, show log
16:20.34jelly!paste
16:20.35dpkgDo not paste more than 2 lines to this channel.  Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!  Cannot cut and paste?  Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>.
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16:20.56jellyand... outside parties can be told "timestamps are UTC"
16:21.02jellylet THEM deal with it
16:21.11greycatyeah, if I were receiving the log file I'd want it unmodified
16:21.15jelly^ this
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16:21.40zerocool-_- it's not for showing logs it's for talking about
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16:21.52zerocooli can just send them syslog if that's all that was required
16:23.24zerocoolthe company is saying that the connection is on their end we are potentially losing you know 500k per day because of "connection issues" on our end but everything on our end looks good and I am writing this with the intent to also cc the executives that care about money, i want to explain in a way that is easy for humans to understand and not just shit the logs and be like "not us"
16:24.26zerocoolso i thought i can clean this up really quick with a bash script since i'm using a script to query elasticsearch for the relevent logs anyway, i can just tack on the formatting at the end
16:24.30lord-carlosHi guys. A new version of a packaged landed in buster-backports _today_. I can see it on the package server ( http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/contrib/z/zfs-linux/zfs-dkms_0.8.3-1~bpo10+1_all.deb )
16:24.30lord-carlosBut apt says I have the newest version. How come? I assume I just have to be patient and I will get it in the next 24h hours?
16:24.43jellyzerocool: I'd keep the logs as-is and make a note of the timestamp in the executive summary.
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16:25.10zerocooljelly: they will also get an attached log that isn't touched
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16:25.53zerocoolnevermind i'll do it in python
16:25.55jellyokay.  Use your favorite scripting language to parse and munge logs.
16:26.02jellynods
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16:26.52zerocooli mean i guess i could just quit this job that's a roundabout way of solving the problem too
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16:30.24greycathttp://paste.wooledge.org/1557
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16:43.58jellytcl?
16:44.17jellynow knows two people proficient with tcl
16:44.19greycatIt's the one I've been using the most.  Work stuff.
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16:45.26digdilemblimey, that takes me back. eggdrop in the 90s
16:46.24pingfloydzerocool: sounds like you're overthinking it
16:47.11zerocoolpingfloyd: overthinking what
16:47.27bipultcl is oldest language i believe ? used for networking relation simulations if i'm not mistaken.
16:47.40greycatTcl and perl were both started around the same time.  Python is newer.
16:48.00pingfloydzerocool: the situation
16:48.09bipulHumm... hardly any profitable organization now these days uses it.
16:48.19annadaneolder than cobol or lisp?
16:48.36greycatCOBOL and LISP are much older.  Along with C and Fortran.
16:48.40bipulahaha BASIC , LOGO , PASCAL are the most oldest
16:48.48thenorihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_programming_languages#First_programming_languages
16:48.49greycatTcl and perl are based in part on C and sh.
16:48.54jhutchins_wkRPG
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16:49.02greycatTcl also inherits a bit from LISP.  Perl, not so much.
16:49.09fuxxySo Windows decided it knew what was better for me than I did, so it rebooted my laptop during an rsync process. It was almost finished with ~2TB. I'm attempting to resume with --partial, but it appears to be starting over from the beginning. What should I be doing differently?
16:49.25zerocoolpingfloyd: i just asked if there was an easy way to convert timezones and what i get is people giving me personal advice.
16:49.28thenorihttps://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001621.htm
16:49.39zerocoolabout situations they have no idea about
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16:49.41pingfloydzerocool: you're being to pandering to them
16:50.15greycatzerocool: if you want robotic answers, ask a robot.  We're people.
16:50.27pingfloydI'd just tell them, "I checked the logs and the problem doesn't appear on this side".
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16:50.52zerocoolno im an engineer and I am explaining to other engineers where a problem lies but i also know that i will be cc'ing people who are not engineers.
16:51.34thenori@fuxxy maybe --size-only would work?
16:51.40thenoriThat skips files that match in size.
16:51.44greycatoh wow, LISP is a year older than COBOL... didn't know that
16:52.03dob1I don't understand what I am doing wrong here in this simple bash script. https://bpaste.net/HAEA  it echoes nothing
16:52.18fuxxythenori, I'll give it a shot. I don't want it to transfer *everything*, just check that the file is there and correct, with size matching or checksum would be even better.
16:52.19dob1(intentation is ok in the real file)
16:52.26dob1*indentation
16:52.35fuxxythenori, keep the --size-only ?
16:52.53fuxxyerr, Keep the --inplace , and add --size-only?
16:53.06pingfloydzerocool: why go out of your way to do their work?
16:53.45thenori--inplace doesn't conflict with --partial
16:53.48zerocoolpingfloyd: because they are saying the problem is not on their end
16:53.50zerocoolsince 2014
16:54.01pingfloydso tell them it isn't and leave it at that
16:54.17zerocoolbut then they say it does and our company is losing 500k a day
16:54.19thenori@fuxxy, check out "--compare-dest=DIR"
16:54.19pingfloydyou're playing the situation from losing ground
16:54.20zerocoolbecause of it
16:54.25zerocoolwhat would you do really
16:54.32pingfloydwhy do you have to prove their accusations are false?
16:54.46thenori@fuxxy it might be faster to use -fuzzy
16:54.46fuxxythenori, I'm sorry, I told you wrong initially. I didn't use --partial, but I actually used --inplace on my first resume attempt
16:54.47bipuldob1, What error are you getting?
16:54.47pingfloydit should be them not making accusation without proof to begin with.
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16:54.58dob1bipul, there are no errors, nothing on output
16:55.02zerocoolpingfloyd: if it was your job you'd understand
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16:56.32thenori@fuxxy, --compare-dest checks the full contents. you have to provide the dir as an arg
16:57.12fuxxythenori, that would be acceptable. Both directores are local on the remote system
16:57.22pingfloydzerocool: as soon as you have to prove yourself, and it's to a situation where you're not the one making the claim, you've already lost.
16:57.30dob1the only difference from the one here https://stackoverflow.com/a/43606356 is that I am using a variable for dir, maybe this creates problems
16:57.54thenori@fuxxy 'fuzzy' would go a lot faster, it just checks the time and size.
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16:58.15bipulAre you getting 0 after executing the script?
16:58.18fuxxythenori, I'm running 'rsync --size-only -a -P' now, and it appears to have skipped the vast majority of files. I'll read up on --fuzzy and --compare-dest
16:58.23bipuli.e $0 ?
16:58.41bipuls/$0/$?
16:58.51thenori--size-only is like --fuzzy but it only checks size and not date @fuxxy
16:58.55dob1bipul, echo $? gives me 0
16:59.00fuxxyfor my use case, --fuzzy may be a bit, well, fuzzy.
16:59.01*** mode/#debian [+l 1572] by debhelper
16:59.12thenori--size-only is a subset of --fuzzy
16:59.17terr__apt-get install ddrescue <-- E: Unable to locate package (stretch
16:59.40thenoriyou just made it today, so it makes sense.
16:59.50greycat,info gddrescue
16:59.51jelly,v ddrescue
16:59.51juddPackage gddrescue (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: GNU data recovery tool. Version: 1.23-2; Size: 122.2k; Installed: 404k; Homepage: https://www.gnu.org/software/ddrescue/ddrescue.html
16:59.52juddNo package named 'ddrescue' was found in amd64.
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16:59.58fuxxyso, ahh, --fuzzy does filesize and date, while --size-only only compares size. Again, in this situation, date timestamps arent relevant
16:59.59EdePopede,f bin/ddrescue
17:00.03pingfloydzerocool: when they claim it's on your side, you should be asking, "what drew you to this conclusion?"
17:00.06EdePopede?
17:00.29thenoriif you use --inplace and it's interrupted, you might have corrupted files on dest
17:00.35jellyEdePopede: judd file has no shortcut I think
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17:00.52EdePopedei'm sure i've seen this syntax before
17:00.59greycat,file bin/ddrescue
17:01.04juddSearch for bin/ddrescue in buster/amd64: gddrescue: usr/bin/ddrescue
17:01.05EdePopedeah!
17:01.36jehornHi guys, I have a question. I've written a program for viewing Debian bug listings through the console. I want to package it in a DEB package archive, how can I do that?
17:01.55fuxxythenori, I just interrupted the --inplace to attempt --size-only/--fuzzy, Would it be possible to verify after this --size-only completes?
17:02.09thenoriyeah that'd be easy
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17:03.07terr__EdePopede, its not in this system.
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17:03.58thenoriIt'd be resource-intensive, but -c == --checksum
17:04.01fuxxyterr__, in my experience, ddrescue/dd_rescue is never included in distro's defaults
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17:04.19maisonmontbonjour
17:04.37terr__fuxxy, that is fine - It should be a package I can install  -  apt-get does not find it
17:04.41joepublichello.
17:04.45fuxxyterr__, it is
17:04.57terr__fuxxy, whats the name?
17:05.01*** part/#debian jehorn (~lubuntu@2600:1700:8db0:6e40:d9d:b94d:fdb8:9f22)
17:05.31fuxxyterr__, apt install gddrescue
17:06.03terr__I don't think I have apt - I tried apt-get and it should do the same thing
17:06.19*** join/#debian natan77 (~OS-66722@46.174.3.136)
17:06.35terr__apt finds it - apt-get did not!
17:06.48terr__no - apt did NOT find it.
17:06.54bipuldob1, Do you able to figure it out? Which version bash are you using?
17:07.12terr__gddrescue...
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17:07.37fuxxyterr__, I havent read the chat backlog, but if you're trying to recover a failing drive, there's a few steps you should follow in order (eg; (1)copy as much data as quickly as possible, skipping bad data, (2)re-visit the bad data, and try with x attempts, (3)attempt to fill in still-missing data backwards
17:07.58fuxxyterr__, it may be in the testing branch, one moment
17:08.16terr__ai found gddrescue... its installed.
17:08.25dob1bipul, no, 5.0.3
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17:09.01fuxxyterr__, great work, then! - It appears to be in all repos, from jessie all the way to sid
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17:09.20bipultry removing !
17:09.44terr__perfect - is there any reason to use -d?  or -r 3?  I can just let it default I think
17:10.11fuxxyterr__, see the "chat backlog" comment above
17:10.43dob1bipul, if I use dir path instead of the variable in the loop it works...
17:10.46bipulremove negate and string remove from echo
17:11.21bipulstring not*
17:11.21terr__fuxxy, not failing that I know of.  I just want a compressed image and this looks to be a good way to get it.
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17:13.06fuxxyterr__, ahh, I would include both - -d specifies direct access and to ignore the kernel cache (I would use -d); -r 3 attempts to read bad data 3 times before giving up (with a good drive, you shouldnt need it, but I would include anyway)
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17:14.13bipulI think this is the correct format  [ -d "$dir" ] && echo "Directory ${dir}   exists." && echo "Found"
17:14.18fuxxyterr__, in either case, I would ALWAYS run ddrescue with a log file (just in case bad data is encountered)
17:14.37fuxxyterr__, once the drive is successfully copied with no errors, you can delete the logfile
17:14.38terr__fuxxy, its running on defaults.  looks to be okay.  I went into dolphin (damn fish) and unmounted the partitions
17:15.20terr__i used ddrescue /dev/sda1 w7home w7homp-map
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17:16.19ratraceterr__: dolphin ain't a fish tho. they're mammals.
17:16.26terr__its copying to an NTFS partition.
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17:16.38bipuldob1, Please check https://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO-11.html
17:16.44fuxxyterr__, I'm unsure if the disk partition table has to match the partition image, but I don't THINK it would be an issue.
17:17.08terr__raya - I know that.  but the dolphin installed in this machine aint a mammal neither
17:17.25terr__it should not be - not at all.
17:17.28fuxxyeg; an image pullled from a 200GB partition restored to a >200GB partition
17:17.41dob1bipul, the problem was on the for loop
17:17.54terr__fuxxy, that source partition should be almost empty.
17:18.12bipuloh
17:18.51fuxxyterr__, if this is for archival, it would be smart to run a defrag on the partition before creating the image. This way the zeros will all be at the end of the image
17:18.53terr__the damn fish updates file sizes on the fly - that is nice of it.  :-)
17:19.23terr__I don't care where they are actually.  I don't ever intend to use it!
17:19.26bipuldob1, And what was that? because i'm unable to execute this line [ ! -d "$dir" ] && echo "Directory ${dir} not  exists." && exit 1  on my shell
17:19.40terr__its a home edition and I use PRO.
17:19.55terr__I'm just being anal and I test it on a machine I don't care about
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17:20.16lord-carlosAnyone know why this is returning a server error? https://packages.debian.org/source/buster-backports/zfs-linux Same works fine for buster or testing.
17:21.12terr__5% rescued already!  This is faster than I thought.  about 1 MB/s - not bad on USB 2
17:21.37terr__15 MB/s
17:21.50bipulzfs document need to re-reverse and updated.
17:21.50terr__This KB has a sticky 5
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17:22.28dob1bipul, I don't know, it doesn't like  for file in "${dir}*.adoc"; do ...   I have to use  for file in /some/path/*.adoc; do
17:23.00fuxxyUSB2 has a theoretical 60MB/sec transfer rate
17:23.56terr__fuxxy, my next step is I will expand the image into a windows parttion on this HDD and then use grub to pick up the mount point and test it.  issue is Grub and I are not dancing yet.  I have Buster on the drive as well and I _should_ be able to make that partition bootable - but alas - no joy yet.
17:23.57lord-carlosIs document  re-reverse and updateing a manuel process?
17:24.25fuxxyterr__, you'll need to chainload the windows bootloader from grub
17:24.41terr__fuxxy, I know that.
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17:25.45fuxxyterr__, the process is partly black magic, you need to prepare a sacrifice of 1.44MB floppies.
17:26.11terr__each partition _should_ have the equivalent of an MBR (its an MBR machine) and the drive should have the stage 1 MBR with the installed partition and sector address of GRUB.  That is how it has to work.   But I can't find docs on this and I don't yet know how to do it.  Last time was 1997 and I was using CHS addressing.
17:26.43terr__fuxxy, the machine doesn't have a FDD.
17:26.45bipuldob1, Anyway but i did not see anything wrong in your for loop, i.e for file in "${dir}*.adoc";  do .... done
17:27.03greycatfor file in "$dir"*.adoc; do ...; done
17:27.11terr__I have CD's and DVDs... a whole stack of them - only used one!  in about  years.
17:27.13greycat"$dir" must be quoted, * must not
17:27.30terr__Now they have type "M" drives.  I should sell the one I have.
17:27.58bipulgreycat, +1
17:28.07fuxxyterr__, Nope, it MUST be floppies. Microwave 10 floppy disks while chanting "May the Gates always open our Windows"
17:28.09bipulI agree with greycat :)
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17:29.23terr__fuxxy, this microwave is high power and it has a broiler option.
17:29.26fuxxyterr__, and I don't have the proof, but I don't think each windows partition has a bootloader. I've only been able to successfully chainload by installing Windows first, then installing linux on the free unpartitioned space.
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17:30.33terr__fuxxy, then dd if=/dev/sda of=mbr bs=512 should lift the MBR and the addresses are in it.
17:30.42greycatcount=1
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17:31.00fuxxyterr__, correct
17:31.09terr__greycat, yes!  I forgot that.
17:31.38fuxxygreycat, thanks, I always overlook the details
17:31.43dob1greycat, got it, thanks
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17:33.18jhutchins_wkterr__: There is only one MBR per physical device.  It is written outside the standard data sectors.
17:33.41terr__jhutchins_wk, should be sector 0
17:34.06terr__jhutchins_wk, but there HAS TO BE something within each parttion and this should be stage 2
17:34.22greycat...?
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17:35.06greycatNot *every* partition.  Maybe just the ones that are intended to be bootable.
17:35.11fuxxyhow to find out what my current shell is?
17:35.13terr__jhutchins_wk, I have not been able to find docs on this.  there was a very good howto I used in 1995 as I reacall.  maybe 1997.  I know I had servers running in 1997
17:35.14greycatps -p $$
17:35.30terr__greycat, yes - that would be correct.
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17:36.36terr__I designed this back HDD so it would be bootable.
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17:39.18fuxxyterr__, back in 1997, I though I was hot shit by setting up a dialup machine in my parents house so both our computers could be online at the same time.
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17:40.38terr__fuxxy, back then I had dialup with one ISP and DSL with another - dual accounts.  Because the guys with the dial up knew what they were doing
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17:41.34bipul<PROTECTED>
17:41.58terr__back then I was handling over $50k per month in high end SCSI equipment as well!  damn progress.  9 GB @ $4500 deteriorated to 2 TB at $50 bux
17:42.04greycatbipul: no, incorrect.
17:42.11bipulhow ??
17:42.16greycat$SHELL tells you what your login account's shell is, not what your current shell is
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17:42.32bipulok
17:42.56bipul:) thank you for updating me :) greycat
17:43.28terr__this ddrescue is coming along nicely - zero errors.
17:43.36greycatps -p $$    works on BSD or System V flavors of ps, and Bourne or csh flavors of shells.  It's not 100% foolproof but it's the best I've got.
17:43.51fuxxyterr__, as it should, on a drive with no errors
17:44.01terr__some of the programmers I have worked with would use a float to count errors
17:44.20bipulok.
17:45.41terr__how about a for {} with the count being a float?
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17:45.49fuxxyterr__, meanwhile, this SATA3-to-SATA3 copy is only going at 80MB/sec
17:45.56terr__PL/I will let you do that
17:46.19terr__that is a little slow
17:46.27terr__I'm at 15
17:47.44fuxxythe source drive is an IBM SAS drive, I'm thinking it's the destination RAID that's writing slowly
17:48.04dudzwhich kind of RAID?
17:48.11jellyjudd: wnpp shit
17:48.13juddSorry, no wnpp bugs were found.
17:48.21terr__dudz, my question! and is it HW raid
17:48.35jelly(it's a git implementation in (mostly) sh)
17:48.42fuxxydudz, ZFS RAIDz2
17:48.59terr__software?
17:49.06fuxxyterr__, correct
17:49.19terr__I forget raid2.  Stripe?
17:49.24dudzmuch cpu load?
17:49.37fuxxyz2 is dual parity
17:49.38terr__dudz, shouldn't be
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17:49.54jellyraidz2 is "2 disk members worth of redundacy, similar to raid6"
17:50.11fuxxydudz, 1.39 1.54 1.41
17:50.48terr__jelly, so not necessarily striped.  fuxxy how many drives?
17:50.54fuxxyterr__, 10 total
17:51.09terr__okay - striped then.
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17:52.46fuxxyGood news is I'm only using 2.17G of 16GB RAM
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17:54.52terr__fuxxy, you should use windows.  Why let that RAM go to waste?
17:55.11sponixterr__: lol
17:56.33fuxxyterr__, I was running Windows. I ran out of floppies.
17:57.07terr__fuxxy, with the rigth microwave that should not be a problem - they can be reused.
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17:59.03terr__fuxxy, I figured DOS was pretty good.  except I never did figure out how to detach.  OS/2 was okay.
18:00.40terr__As I recall NT4.0 could run some OS/2 executables.  Its been a while.. and guess what?  I have an NT4.0 boot disk.
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18:01.36terr__this poor external HDD - it keeps blinking at me as if to say - why are you feeding me this shit?
18:01.56fuxxyI have access to those as well. Actually, the entire suite back to WFW 3.1
18:01.57terr__big blue eye.  innocent
18:02.49terr__I go back to PC DOS 3 and before on IBM, HP3000 and a bunch of the bunch
18:03.32terr__Burroughs, Univac, NCR, CDC, Honeywell  - and EACH of them came up with a solid OS.  M$ never has.
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18:05.54terr__fuxxy, this thing really slowed down 8 MB/s now
18:06.13fuxxyterr__, read errors?
18:06.32terr__doesn't show any
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18:06.49fuxxyThen no worries. possibly drive cache ran out
18:07.10terr__must be a soft spot in the windows 7 home edition underbelly
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18:07.51terr__home edition doesn't even have an administrator.  Talk about a crock of shit.
18:07.55fuxxyterr__, nah, this is just basic HDD operation. The builtin cache can only saturate the bus so long
18:08.08terr__I paid $50 bux for the system. and I bitch
18:08.30terr__well its close to 40 GB
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18:09.56terr__damn battery on one of my $50 laptops failed.  Its going to cost me like $25 bux for the battery.  I checked and I can open the battery case and replace the batteries.  The replacement batteries cost $36 bux.  Planned obsolescence
18:10.38sponixterr__: just pull the battery and run straight from the wall if it will allow it (most do)
18:10.55terr__sponix, did that - runs fine.
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18:11.23fuxxyMost laptops use 18650 Li-Ion cells. The trick is in the balancing circuit, those need to be reprogrammed to reset the "wear statistics", for lack of a better term
18:12.00terr__18650s?  I think a tesla Model S uses the same ones.
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18:13.42terr__I am setting everything up on a big UPS system anyways.  I need to drive steppers.  these are dormant in my case most of the time.  Cheapest way is deep cycle batteries and a rather large buck converter.
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18:14.14terr__so I may as well retire the wall warts before I even start
18:14.39terr__I can get a 2 amp buck for like $25 bux
18:14.52terr__25 amp
18:16.03terr__couple of batteries can handle 100 amps at 27 volts no issue and they can hold like 60 amp hours
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18:17.15terr__what is this "non-trimmed"  36964 B
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18:18.55terr__Size of the part of the rescue domain pending to be trimmed. This is the sum of the sizes of all the non-trimmed blocks
18:19.12terr__Does this mean its starting to run into unused sectors?
18:19.18jellycontext?
18:19.51terr__jelly - it just gave me a non-zero count for non-trimmed
18:19.56jellywhat did?
18:20.15joepublicyou know, it.
18:20.22jellyah. it.  Of course.
18:20.23jelly!ask
18:20.23dpkgIf you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
18:20.27terr__ddrescue
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18:24.10jellyinfo ddrescue seems to have an explananation of the steps, and "trimming" seems to be used as "figuring out precisely where bad blocks end and begin"
18:24.40jellyso it "trims" the good parts around those carefully
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18:25.28jelly(completely unrelated to SATA TRIM, SSDs, fstrim or anything)
18:27.14jellyterr__: info ddrescue Algorithm
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18:27.42jellyseems to remember there having been a similar non-GNU tool called dd_rescue
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18:29.24jellythat other one can still be found at: deb http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/garloff:/storage/Debian_9.0/ ./
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19:16.57Lingo07linux@schizophrenia:~/Desktop/multitor-master$ ./setup.sh install
19:16.57Lingo07Create symbolic link to /usr/local/bin
19:16.57Lingo07Create man page to /usr/local/man/man8
19:16.57Lingo07<PROTECTED>
19:17.12greycatsolve what?
19:17.27greycatit's telling you what it did
19:17.56Lingo07greycat: i need to open multi tor browser simultanously
19:18.09greycatthen do that
19:18.48Lingo07greycat i do script from github but not working and im new to linux
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19:19.05greycatfollow the directions?
19:19.25Lingo07i felow instructions actually
19:19.54greycatThen maybe you could tell us what *problem* you have.
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19:20.54jhutchins_wkLingo07: You also haven't told us what random project you're pulling from github, which is NOT recommended even for experienced linux users, and certainly not for beginners.
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19:28.19openbsdtai123hello
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19:28.36openbsdtai123is there a polish-english dictionary for debian on rpi3b?
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19:28.51openbsdtai123ydpdict is not packaged.
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19:37.18frotz47hello.
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20:14.50terr_ddrescue has completed.  I probably should have used --sparse since now my target is 100 GB and I know that drive is almost empty.  1) how can I compress it?  2) is compressing now better or worse than --sparse 3) I have errsize  4096 B  That field is not in the documentation which I have here:  https://www.gnu.org/software/ddrescue/manual/ddrescue_manual.html   Can anyone advise?  My plan?  reverse the operation into an unused bootable windows partition and
20:14.50terr_test that it worked and to get there I need to get grub working properly.
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20:19.49jellyterr_: 4096B is one bad sector on a 4KiB sector sized disk
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20:21.23terr_jelly - the source is a 250 GB drive.  formatted by ASUS
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20:21.41terr_or whoever made the drive.
20:22.10terr_I suspect 1 bad sector.  I would like to try to recover it just so I know how.
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20:23.04jellyyou can't.
20:23.17jellythe data is gone.  That's what "bad sector" means.
20:23.30greycat"But in hollywood, you can always recover the data, and you can always zoom in on the license plate, and, and..."
20:23.37sbug:)
20:23.43jellythe tool you used tried to read it several times
20:24.14jellyyou can, however, hope no important data or metadata was stored there
20:24.55jellyand since gnu ddrescue keeps some sort of logs, you can probably figure out which, if any, file is affected
20:25.41terr_jelly I really dodn't care.  Its a test machine.  I intend to blow the contents of that partition sky high anyways and house mate does have a blasting license.  (no kidding).  No gun permit - but if we want a ton of Anflo there is no issue at all.
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20:25.43jellyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHwjceFcF2Q (enhance, from Blade Runner)
20:26.02jellyterr_: um, then why did you copy it?
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20:26.22terr_jelly, there is 151 bytes in the mapfile.  I have not looked in it yet.
20:26.54urxtnwDoes anyone know, back in 2011 when Gnome 2 was replaced by Gnome 3 and you were running Gnome 2, what happen with Debian installations that didn't support Gnome 3 until 2015?
20:27.05terr_jelly - to find out how things work.  I'm not going to do this on a production system.  I have hot spares for testing.
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20:28.03terr_jelly, I honestly have probably quite a learning curve ahead.
20:28.24jellyurxtnw: debian does not always ship latest upstream software version
20:29.04jelly!release history
20:29.04dpkgNamed after "Toy Story" characters. Buzz(1.1; 1996-03-14), Rex(1.2; 1996-10-28), Bo(1.3; 1997-05-01), Hamm(2.0; 1998-07-24), Slink(2.1; 1999-03-09), Potato(2.2; 2000-08-15), Woody(3.0; 2002-07-19), Sarge(3.1; 2005-06-06), Etch(4.0; 2007-04-08), Lenny(5.0; 2009-02-14), Squeeze(6.0; 2011-02-06), Wheezy(7; 2013-05-04), Jessie(8; 2015-04-25), Stretch (9; 2017-06-17), Buster (10; 2019-07-06). Next: Bullseye. http://deb.li/it56U
20:29.11urxtnwurxtnw, I understand that, but what would've happend with your installation?
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20:29.26greycatYou would continue running whatever you have.
20:29.35terr_map file is human readable.  But then I can read hex.
20:29.36jellyurxtnw: you'd keep using the Gnome version that's installed
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20:29.47urxtnwgreycat, so gnome 2 was supported with security updates until 2015?
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20:30.02terr_greycat, do I just start it over with the exact same command?
20:30.04greycatIf it was in the current Debian release at the time, sure.
20:30.18terr_it finished about 55 minutes ago.
20:30.22terr_it finished about 5 minutes ago.
20:30.47urxtnwgreycat, jelly my question is, you are running software X, and new release decides to not support it anymore, when you upgrade what happens?
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20:31.40greycatIn the theoretical case where you're running Desktop Environment Z in buster, and bullseye (buster+1) no longer offers Desktop Environment Z, you will be sitting there with an unsupported, but presumably still functional, Desktop Environment, and you get to choose how to deal with it.
20:32.07somiajurxtnw: that question is a bit to vague, you mean debian decides not to support software and removes it from debian? The package becomes obslete and you have to manually remove it
20:32.31jellyurxtnw: it depends.  Usually you're left using packages that are obsolete and do not exist in current release any more.  But sometimes the release upgrade process removes them and installs something else that is percieved as a successor.
20:32.40urxtnwThat makes sense. Would someone tell you (apt), or do you have to research it yourself?
20:32.47somiajIt is often suggested you run 'aptitude search ~o' after a dist-upgrade to identify any obslete packages.
20:33.09urxtnwsomiaj, isn't that what happened? It was gnome 2, then debian switched to XFCE until 2015 when gnome 3 was introduced back
20:33.15jellyurxtnw: you would a) read the release notes for the release you're upgrading to, and loss of a whole DE would certainly be mentioned there
20:33.27somiajurxtnw: gnome was never removed from debian.
20:33.31greycatDebian doesn't "switch to Desktop Environment Q".  It offers many DEs.
20:33.38jellyurxtnw: b) you'd read apt output and notice stuff was being removed
20:33.45oerhekscheck-support-status
20:34.05urxtnwsomiaj, damn, I shouldn't believe what wikipedia says " For example, Debian, a Linux distribution that had historically used GNOME 2, switched to Xfce when GNOME 3 was released but readopted GNOME 3 in time for the release of Debian 8 "Jessie"."
20:34.18greycatdon't believe everything you read on the internet
20:34.25jellysomiaj: kde3 was removed, gnome2 was removed, neither had an upgrade process worth a damn
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20:35.01somiajjelly: ahh, must have overlooked that, I thought there was a transition with transitional packages for that (don't actually use either so never noticed)
20:35.24jellyurxtnw: wikipedia does not seem to recognize that installer defaults are different from what's actually available in debian
20:35.29greycatand "Debian removed x" means "x was no longer available for download in release y", not "x will be removed from your system if you upgrade to release y".
20:35.39somiajurxtnw: I think many people put to much stock in debian's default desktop. Debian has provided multiple desktops and/or window managers for users to choose from.
20:35.46greycatwhatever is already installed, tends to stay installed, almost always
20:35.52urxtnwjelly somiaj , that's definitely the case
20:36.12jellyurxtnw: it is not that Debian " switched to Xfce ", it's just that default choice of DE in the installer was changed.
20:36.31urxtnwsomiaj, you helped me with some questions earlier this week about debian, I finally switched completely yesterday and I did it with a minimal install.
20:36.36somiajoutside of the standard (and higher priority packages) everything else is optional in debian for users to use what they need.
20:36.42jellynever switched TO Gnome
20:36.46masonjelly: Wikipedia editors clearly are befuddled by "spins" of the various distros.
20:36.48urxtnwyeah that makes sense
20:37.00greycatI briefly experimented with GNOME in the pre-2.0 days.  Didn't see the point.
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20:37.14masonGnome 2.0 was pleasant enough, if heavy.
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20:37.38enycOoooho i remember the /opt/gnome-1.4/lib .. /opt/gnu/bin/bash  blah balh  on a solaris system with gnome 1.4 ;p
20:37.39somiajwas xfce ever default in an actual release, or was this just something in testing that never got released (my fuzzy memeory seems to think gnome has been the default gui for a long time)
20:37.58masonsomiaj: Isn't it the default today?
20:38.09urxtnwit is
20:38.09greycatgnome3 is basically the default today
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20:38.17urxtnwIs Empathy a good video program/replacement for something like skype? What about Jitsi? What would you guys recommend.
20:38.18greycatinsofar as *anything* is
20:38.23somiajmason: gnome is the default and has been for most of my memeory, I don't install that often, but my recolection is gnome is the default if you choose nothing
20:38.52somiajurxtnw: a lot depends on what the people you chat with use. It is often easier to use what they use than to try to get them to use what you want.
20:38.52greycatgnome3 is the default if you install using "netinst" or "dvd1" or "netinst with nonfree firmware".
20:39.05greycatif you install with "live-crazy-bullshit-thing" then all bets are off.
20:39.06masonAlright. I'm not a good source of these things. All my installs start off as minimal.
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20:39.24urxtnwsomiaj, if you'd be able to get them to use what they want, what is your opinion on a reliable video conferencing program?
20:39.40somiajmason: well outside of the minimial install (and maybe a few standard packages it might miss), everything else is considered optional.
20:39.42masonIn fact, most of my installs start off with debootstrap nowadays, so somewhat less than minimal.
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20:40.21somiajurxtnw: I use whatever others use. If it was my choice it would be none.
20:41.13urxtnwsomiaj, you said you don't install often, when was the last time you did a clean install?
20:42.16somiajI got a new work laptop with the release of buster, so for that. I usually do a new install with a new machine (though my home desktop hasn't had a new install since I switched to efi how ever many years ago)
20:42.43somiajbut since I just select the minimial tools and go through it quickly, I don't pay to much attention to the installer or defaults.
20:43.05urxtnwdo you install a DE?
20:44.41somiajnope
20:45.44urxtnwsomiaj, what do you use? what kind of configuration? window manager?
20:46.21somiajI use fvwm, just a window manager.
20:46.42jellybut is it fvwm 1.24r or fvwm2?
20:46.43urxtnwsomiaj, what about file manager?
20:47.27greycatI use fvwm too, and no "file manager".  Unless you count a terminal window with a shell as a file manager.
20:47.28somiajfvwm2, though it is nice that fvwm 1.24r still runs on modern systems.
20:47.33jelly... so I said, "Heathen!" and tossed him off the bridge
20:47.52joepublicfvwm95 maybe?
20:47.56somiajno file manager here, really the main thing I use xorg for is a browser and multiple xterms
20:48.08somiajjoepublic: that was just fvwm2 + configs
20:48.11masonsomiaj: Do you use the stub loader? I love nothing bothering with GRUB any more.
20:48.17urxtnwsomiaj, no browsing pictures, or videos, etc.?
20:48.34somiajurxtnw: feh shows pictures just fine
20:48.35terr_people in offtopic are getting randy.  I have to go back.
20:49.27somiajmason: I just have been to lazy to switch to one, and then the one I wanted got swalloed up by systemd. But yea with efi there isn't that much of a need for grub anymore (except backup kernels -- never did figure out a nice way to do that without grub)
20:49.52urxtnwsomiaj, what's bad about systemd?
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20:50.04davishello. I got a new usb wifi dongle today. I upgraded my kernel to 4.9.0-12 via dist-upgrade. I installed firmware-realtek via apt.  I have modprobe rtl8812.  lsmod shows it loaded. No errors in dmesg.  However sudo iwconfig only shows my laptops built-in wifi adapter and the new usb adapter.  What else do I need to do?
20:50.17jellyurxtnw: we do not ask that question in polite company
20:50.31masonsomiaj: There's a pretty decent way. I keep a main entry and then an entry that launches vmlinuz.old with initrd.old. That way I always have main and fallback.
20:50.32urxtnwjelly, I'm going to look it up then
20:50.47somiajurxtnw: I like systemd just fine, I just never got around to figuring out how to use it with systemd.
20:50.50joepublic"it's inexplicably unpopular.  See:  have to learn new things"
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20:51.16somiajmason: yea, I just use grub because all of that is already nicely scripted
20:51.24jellyjoepublic: now that's just trolling!
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20:52.15somiajdavis: don't quite get your question, "iwconfig shows the wifi adapter and the new usb adapter", though it sounds like you don't actually see the adapter.
20:52.19joepublicjust an honest assesment, really.  people seem to not want to learn a different way to do the same thing, even if the new way has significant improvements.
20:52.25masonsomiaj: GRUB ends up being more work for things like FDE with ZFS inside, but if you're not using that, yeah, it covers the usual bases.
20:52.33somiajdavis: you should be able to see what interface name (if any) was assigned to that device in demsg, check out dmesg for more info.
20:52.44davissomiaj: my apologies. iwconfig only shows the builtin adapter. not the usb adapter
20:52.58A731Does anyone know a fancy command to repair linker /usr/bin/ld/? I managed to corrupt it
20:53.00somiajmason: I juse use ext4, no need for anything different.
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20:53.21somiajA731: you can reinstall th epackage that contains that binary.
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20:53.25oft_gegongis there a reason installing debian on a USB would be a bad idea?
20:53.42masonoft_gegong: The only issues would be performance and longevity of the media.
20:53.54somiajoft_gegong: often times usb write/read speeds are slow (usb3 is much better) compared to a physical disk, so that is often why not many do it.
20:54.07jellyA731: is /usr/bin/ld a symlink or a file right now?
20:54.10A731USB wouldnt be that fast, and its not made for continous transmission for long periods
20:54.17davissomiaj: i removed the usb dongle, reinserted it. did dmesg.  It says new high speed USB device.  it gives additional usb messages .
20:54.20A731Its a file jelly
20:54.28somiajoft_gegong: That is what a live system is for, it allows an install on a usb drive that does things in memeory so the read/write speeds of the usb drive don't slow the system down as much.
20:54.35davissomiaj: it does not say anything relative to adapter.
20:54.44jellyA731: rm it, and reinstall the package that brings ld
20:54.49somiajdavis: you can share the output at paste.debian.net, but usually it says what interface name was assigned (if any)
20:54.52jellyjudd: file bin/ld
20:54.57juddSearch for bin/ld in buster/amd64: [truncated] binutils: usr/bin/ld; binutils-mips64-linux-gnuabi64: usr/mips64-linux-gnuabi64/bin/ld; binutils-m68hc1x: usr/m68hc11/bin/ld; binutils-mips-linux-gnu: usr/mips-linux-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-alpha-linux-gnu: usr/alpha-linux-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-arm-linux-gnueabihf: usr/arm-linux-gnueabihf/bin/ld; binutils-ia64-linux-gnu: usr/ia64-linux-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-arm-
20:54.58juddlinux-gnueabi: usr/arm-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld; binutils-i686-linux-gnu: usr/i686-linux-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-aarch64-linux-gnu: usr/aarch64-linux-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-i686-kfreebsd-gnu: usr/i686-kfreebsd-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-hppa64-linux-gnu: usr/hppa64-linux-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-h8300-hms: usr/h8300-hitachi-coff/bin/ld; binutils-mingw-w64-i686: usr/i686-w64-mingw32/bin/ld; binutils-i686-gnu: (1 more message)
20:54.58A731Alright
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20:55.02davissomiaj: one sec i will paste
20:55.08jellyA731: binutils
20:55.56urxtnwsomiaj, if it's not too personal, what type of work do you do with "many xterms open"?
20:56.33davissomiaj: http://paste.debian.net/1130511/
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20:57.05somiajurxtnw: I mostly write stuff in tex or markdown for webpages.
20:57.15davissomiaj: i also checked my lsmod output. the driver is still loaded. I did not remove the driver though.
20:57.26A731Tysm jelly
20:57.55somiajdavis: is that all? It appears that no module is claiming that device, maybe the usbid isn't being reconiginzed.
20:58.14davissomiaj: that is the end of dmesg output
20:58.21somiajdavis: did you load the driver? You should see info about the driver taking control of the device, none of that info is there.
20:58.53davisthe driver is loaded  already
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20:58.59somiajdavis: for some reason the usb id (combination of the idVendor and idProduct on line 3) is not being reconginzed by your kernel and no module is actually taking control.
20:59.03davisi can rmmod driver and modprobe it
20:59.11davisone second and I will do that
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20:59.29somiajdavis: but the module doesn't appear to recongize that device as one it should take control of.
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21:00.03somiaj(I once had a usb dongle I had to echo its usb id into /proc/something maybe /sys/something to force the kernel to take control of it, because it didn't regonize it
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21:01.00davissomiaj: http://paste.debian.net/1130512/  that is the result of doing rmmod 8812au and modprobe 8812au
21:01.40davissomiaj: iwconfig output just shows the existing wifi adapter builtin to laptop
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21:02.04somiajdavis: the module is not recongizing your dongle. Could be that you need a newer kernel (what kernel are you using)?
21:02.25davissomiaj: that is a good question.  Here is what happened with kernel.
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21:04.13davissomiaj: I had not done a apt-get dist-upgrade in a while.  I think i was on 4.9.0.8 or something.  the driver was not in this kernel.  I found a driver from github.  It used dkms to build.  I already had dkms, but when I tried to build it said, you need to install your kernel headers.  I went to apt-cache search my headers and it was not present. an older and newer version existed.
21:04.37somiajdavis: what version of debian are you running?
21:04.58somiajdavis: and what is the output of 'uname -a'
21:05.05davissomiaj: I did some more reading and I found that a newer kernel was available for debian stable. I did the dist-upgrade and now my kernel is 4.9.0-12-amd64
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21:05.19davismy cat /etc/debian_version did not seem to change though.
21:05.30somiaj(That is still basiclaly the 4.9 kernel -- which means you are running stretch?)
21:05.30davisit shows 9.12
21:05.35greycatyou're not on debian stable, by the way.
21:05.43daviswhat am i on?
21:05.48greycatoldstable, stretch, Debian 9
21:05.48dvsoldstable
21:06.12davisahh. the guide i read for doing an upgrade must me out of date.
21:06.35dvs!release notes
21:06.35dpkgThe release notes for Debian 10 "Buster" are at https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ . See also <stretch->buster>, <buster install guide>
21:06.37greycatthe stretch 9.12 point release, including new kernel ABI version, came out last weekend, same time as the buster 10.3 point release, also with a kernel ABI bump
21:06.39davisgreycat: hello friend. you have helped me a lot. /tip of hat to you
21:06.39somiajyea, that is stretch, okay that is no oldstable. Anyways you have two basic options to get a newer kernel, the first is to grab the 4.19 kernel from stretch-backports (this newer kernel may just recongize your dongle and life can go on). The other option (which you may want to consider in the next 6 months before stretch looses security support) is to dist-upgrade from stretch to buster
21:06.45somiaj!stretch->buster
21:07.26davisyes, dist-upgrade sounds like the thing to do. i did that already.
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21:07.38davisdo i need to adjust my apt-sources file?
21:07.43dvsyes
21:07.51somiajdavis: sounds like you didn't update your sources.list, but unsure why dpkg didn't give us that factoid.
21:07.56somiajanyways, read the release notes first
21:08.00somiaj!stretch->buster
21:08.11davissomiaj: I am a dummy.
21:08.20davisi don't try to hide it.
21:08.32davisyes, it says stretch in the sources.list file
21:08.37somiajhmm, are you ignoring me dpkg? anyways read the release notes, there is a whole chapter on upgrading from stretch.
21:08.59greycatdpkg, stretch->buster
21:08.59dpkgRead (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> http://deb.li/JFKc . TL;DR: In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "stretch" to "buster", remove lines like stretch-backports, debian-multimedia <dmo>, and other 3rd party repos as they are known to cause issues then do: apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade
21:09.02davisgoogle debian release notes buster?
21:09.05davisahh, that link
21:09.07greycatI think dpkg still has that bug with ! and ->
21:09.07davismany thanks
21:09.24dvsdoesn't like C?
21:09.43jellya dummy?  Sure sound like a real boy
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21:10.30davisjelly:  lol, i had a flashback of the commerical. you have potential. you have potential
21:12.37davisso change all stretch to buster. apt-get update. apt-get dist-upgrade. apt-get full-update?
21:12.49dvsnope
21:12.53somiajdavis: no read the release notes, then do what they tell you to
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21:13.22somiaj(the apt-get full-update is not a valid command and not needed)
21:13.43davisit looks like it says use buster. in section 4.3.2
21:13.46somiajbut the release notes give some other advise about third party repos/software, and issues to be aware of before just doing that
21:14.36davisyes i see the bit about making a log
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21:49.02davisthanks a bunch folks
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22:15.11mtcdoodis there a headless IRC client or bot I can run that will log raw IRC messages to file and rotate them daily?
22:15.25mtcdoodI used to have one that worked and years later I can't remember what it was
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22:18.27masonmtcdood: I'm not aware of one, but you could write one easily enough, or run irssi inside screen or somesuch.
22:20.01mtcdoodyeah I know of a few clients that will do raw logging, but only to a single file
22:20.09mtcdooddon't know if they'd behave with logrotate or not
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22:23.19masonirssi will do per-channel and per-query logging. It seems to keep filehandles open, so I'm not sure how happy it would be about logrotate.
22:24.14masonmtcdood: Ah: " You can make irssi automatically rotate the logs by adding date/time formats to the file name."  But any more than this and #irssi would be a better place to check.
22:24.25masonthat's from https://irssi.org/documentation/startup/ anyway
22:24.38mtcdoodirssi doesn't log raw messages to file that way
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22:25.00masonMaybe you mean something by "raw" I'm not catching.
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22:25.30mtcdoodit's the technical term
22:25.31masonIf you don't want rendered messages, write a bot that logs in and dumps the raw IRC traffic.
22:25.39mason"technical"
22:25.54mtcdoodyou can Google it if you really care, you clearly don't.
22:26.18masonThat must be it. Have a lovely evening.
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22:54.14tomboy64i need some help with sources.list.d
22:54.35tomboy64i have a custom repository in there, deb-src https://weechat.org/debian buster main
22:54.54tomboy64oh scrap
22:55.56tomboy64nvm
22:56.12tomboy64src works without suitable arch
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23:35.44nvzdoes anyone know if I can connect multiple bluetooth devices, like two input devices or an input device and an audio device? I have Debian 10, Intel 7260 Wifi/BT card
23:36.31nvzI've so far only tried it with one thing at a time.. just wondering as I plan to order some more stuff
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23:40.59KadiganHey. So, I borked my boot. :D Moved to a new motherboard, wanted AHCI - found online that I need to add ahci/libahci and do the whole update-initramfs song-and-dance, so I did... only it still didn't boot in AHCI, but now it also doesn't boot in IDE (no devices listed... were found). I figure I could probably find a live USB and try to fix it that way, but there's a small complication in that I have mdraid on the disks -- does that have any gotchas
23:40.59KadiganI need to look out for here? Maybe I should use a different bootloader altogether? (I *think* I'm on grub, possibly grub2?)
23:41.57nvzo.O
23:42.09KadiganAlso, if there's anything I can do via the provided BusyBox shell, we can skip that - my keyboard doesn't work with it, so I can only hard-reset from that shell.
23:43.30joepublicI have one headset, zero anything else connected by bluetooth, sorry
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23:50.29adikthow do i get firefox to stop autostarting when i reboot?  i feel like this is a dumb question.  there is no option in firefox.  i do not have firefox in my startup applications (i have steam, torguard, other stuff).  i've googled lots and can only find tutorials telling me to disable in windows msconfig
23:50.51adiktdoes it have something to do with the ESR version automatically installed with debian 10?
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23:53.00joepublicsounds like your desktop environment is perhaps trying to "restore the desktop", the cure for which is desktop environment-specific
23:54.05nvzKadigan: you have absolutely no relevant info in there to suggest anything other than you have no idea what you're doing, followed instructions from someone else who had no idea what they're doing, and your machine is broken. Relevant info here is what OS you're running and what hardware you're using. I have been using AHCI, from boot.. for over a decade, by.. having AHCI hardware, I've done nothing else
23:54.23nvzchances are your bios settings are what your real issue were if you're not getting ahci
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23:56.52adiktjoepublic, that kind of makes sense..  i am migrating over from linux mint to debian 10, but also using kde instead of gnome...
23:56.56adiktand i found the option!
23:57.08adiktthank you!
23:57.33nvzadikt: yes desktop environments all typically have session managers that among other things control startup apps and can remeber and restore running apps
23:58.04adikti was struggling to figure out why hexchat was spawning two instances on load..  it's because it was loading the last instance plus the startup
23:58.05Kadigannvz: Debian 9, mobo Asus M5A97 Pro. Installed in IDE compatibility mode, originally.
23:58.21adiktand it's probably the only program that allows multiple instances.. as steam does not
23:58.27Kadigan(disks are 2x 1TB HDD)
23:58.29adiktmakes sense gonna try it now
23:58.48nvzKadigan: are you using some kinda software raid? and your kernel version? uname -r
23:59.35KadiganI can't tell you the kernel version, can't boot into it. And I'm using the software RAID I got with Debian. I thought "why not" when I set it up, and I'm -not- using the motherboard 'BIOS RAID'.
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