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| 00:00.48 | dvs | talk with your mouth full? |
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| 00:07.27 | fuxxy | Stranger danger is a myth |
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| 00:08.17 | secretpow | nvz: hmm, interesting. Apparently mpd has some dependencies which end up suggesting fluid-soundfont-gm - I assume that's why it won't remove it? Is there a way to make it "ignore" suggested packages? |
| 00:09.06 | dvs | secretpow, well, you can remove it manually if it is a suggested package. |
| 00:09.29 | dvs | or even if it is a recommended package. |
| 00:10.05 | nvz | secretpow: apt-get has always done this.. its only apt that assumes things like that |
| 00:10.23 | nvz | and yes, its configurable.. I just don't know how offhand |
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| 00:11.42 | nvz | dpkg, apt recommends? |
| 00:11.42 | dpkg | Packages required in all but unusual cases (that is, "breakable" dependencies) are called "recommended" packages. By not installing these packages, you miss the standard functionality they provide. To disable once, "aptitude -R install packagename" or "apt-get --no-install-recommends install packagename". To disable permanently, echo "APT::Install-Recommends no;" > /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/no-recommends. See <why recommends>. |
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| 00:15.56 | somiaj | secretpow: suggested packages are ignored by default, recommended packages are not. |
| 00:17.29 | somiaj | Though there is no clear line (and often disagreements) on what should be recommended vs suggested, in general if a package is recommended it is required for some feature of the software, while a suggeted package is one that enhances or works well with the software. |
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| 00:18.14 | somiaj | so if you ignore all recommended packages, you may find if you install something you don't have all the functionality you would want. |
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| 00:21.00 | secretpow | I meant "ignore" like if there's nothing stronger than a "suggests" relation to a package, then autoremove could remove it |
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| 00:22.03 | secretpow | I mean, as far as I know, suggested packages are not installed by default, so if I actually want a suggested package, I'd have to install it myself, in which case it would be marked as manually installed, and would not be removed by autoremove either |
| 00:26.34 | secretpow | I also found Apt::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant "false" on Google, which appears to do what I want |
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| 00:29.21 | solrize_x | hi i installed debian 10.2 on a laptop and used it for a while, installing various packages (apt-get install and python pip install) along the way. i want to wipe it and reinstall. i can save and restore the user files but is there a convenient way to find out all the apt packages i installed that weren't in the base system? i did the usual thing of installing stuff as needed when it wasn't already there. if i can do the same with pip package |
| 00:29.23 | solrize_x | s that's even better, though i realize that last is not a debian question per se. thanks |
| 00:29.57 | dvs | dpkg --get-selections ? |
| 00:29.59 | dpkg | parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about, dvs |
| 00:30.08 | dvs | !shut up |
| 00:30.08 | dpkg | No, I won't, and you can't make me. :P |
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| 00:30.55 | solrize_x | dvs hnnm that looks promising, thanks |
| 00:31.03 | dvs | np |
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| 00:31.57 | solrize_x | erm that seems to show everything rather than non-base stuff? but if i just install it all, i guess it won't re-install what is already there |
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| 00:32.30 | dvs | yeah, it won't reinstall if it is already installed |
| 00:32.35 | fuxxy | solrize_x, I was researching just that a few months ago. The simplest answer was to spin up a new install, and after the reboot and you're allowed to log in, run a dpkg <unsure of options>, then compare that list to the one from your current system. |
| 00:33.02 | alencc1986 | solrize_x: If you want to list APT's history, you can 'cat /var/log/apt/history.log' and check the packages which were installed. |
| 00:33.21 | alencc1986 | solrize_x: Then, remove those packages you have installed. |
| 00:35.45 | dvs | fuxxy, that's a round about way of doing it |
| 00:36.17 | fuxxy | dvs, I thought so too. but at the time, that's the best answer I could get, since my machine had been up for YEARS |
| 00:37.10 | fuxxy | I ended up installing fresh, and just banging my head against the keyboard until I got the dependancies I needed all sorted |
| 00:37.36 | dvs | fuxxy, you can capture the output of "dpkg --get-selections" and then, after the new install, pipe that output to "dpkg --set-selections" |
| 00:38.47 | fuxxy | dvs, that sounds familiar. That was probably the solution I found previously |
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| 00:57.26 | fuxxy | So I've changed the username for the service user debian-deluged to 'deluge'. Now when I attempt to su to deluge, I'm presented with "su: Authentication failure". What did I forget? |
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| 01:00.33 | solrize_x | fuxxy, alencc* -- thanks |
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| 01:04.32 | fuxxy | aha, I should have used usermod to change the username, not simply editing /etc/passwd |
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| 01:07.06 | solrize_x | i also notice, when i installed i added a user account for myself and i was automatically able to use sudo even though the account name was not in sudoers (ok fine). later i added another account and that account was NOT able to sudo until i added it. adding it to the root group didn't help. this seems to not match the sudo docs. any idea? |
| 01:07.14 | solrize_x | original user was in the root group |
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| 01:08.54 | dvs | solrize_x, maybe the installer added the initial user to the sudoers group? |
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| 01:11.29 | LtL | if you do not give root a password during install, the first user gets sudo, or else nobody has root access. |
| 01:11.52 | LtL | nobody as in anyone |
| 01:12.14 | solrize_x | yeah the first user was in the group but the 2nd was not, and adding the 2nd didn't help, i had to actually edit the sudoers file |
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| 01:12.43 | solrize_x | LtL, hmm interesting, any idea how that happens? i didn't notice anything about it in the docs |
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| 01:13.35 | LtL | solrize_x: adduser username sudo as root does the same thing without touching /etc/sudoers |
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| 01:14.06 | solrize_x | LtL, ok I'll try to figure out how sudo detects that thanks |
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| 01:18.48 | LtL | solrize_x: if you give a root password during install, no user will have sudo privileges but can be added to the sudo group with adduser. sudo will likely need to be installed manually first. sudoers isn't really needed except for indivual command permission |
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| 01:27.35 | fuxxy | I'm trying to use 'find' to identify empty subdirectories under /path/to/somewhere. I'm using the command 'find /path/to/somewhere/* -type d -empty -delete' . I'm observing that if that runs while /path/to/somewhere/ is already empty, it deletes the folder "somewhere". What gives? And what should I be using to keep it from deleting part of the path I've specified? |
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| 01:30.06 | dvs | fuxxy, use the mindepth option? |
| 01:32.37 | fuxxy | soo... -mindepth=1 ? |
| 01:32.44 | fuxxy | that's what I'm interpreting |
| 01:34.04 | dvs | looks right but I haven't tried it myself |
| 01:34.12 | fuxxy | testing now |
| 01:34.17 | chance | fuxxy, yea, mindepth. The file globbing character * can equal any character or group of characters, or even none. |
| 01:35.05 | chance | fuxxy, and if you directly give it that directory and tell it to delete empty ones, it's your victim. |
| 01:35.35 | fuxxy | chance, what do you mean? |
| 01:36.01 | chance | fuxxy, "find /path/to/somewhere/*" may as well be "find /path/to/somewhere/" |
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| 01:36.47 | fuxxy | so you're saying it's a bonehead attempt? or that eliminating the * is a better way? |
| 01:37.06 | chance | fuxxy, just use mindepth. |
| 01:37.11 | fuxxy | okay |
| 01:37.57 | fuxxy | I've attempted both with and without, and both 'find' executions return the same 3 empty directories. Neither attempt returned the TLD I specified as a match |
| 01:38.00 | fuxxy | ahh |
| 01:38.04 | fuxxy | cause it's not empty.. yet |
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| 01:40.07 | fuxxy | aha, there it is |
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| 01:47.17 | somiaj | if using shell globbing you can also do ?* to ensure at least one character |
| 01:48.14 | somiaj | though you do have to be careful about hidden (.) directories with shell globbing, and should let find do all the work, find /path/to/somewhere/ options |
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| 02:32.26 | de-facto | Noticed sudo is not preinstalled on some systems, what would be the "su..." equivalent to "sudo -u user -g group id"? |
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| 02:35.15 | somiaj | de-facto: su - username is how you become a username with su, I don't think you can control the group though |
| 02:35.21 | somiaj | you might just want to install sudo |
| 02:35.32 | somiaj | (note sudo is only installed if you don't assign root a password during the isntall phase) |
| 02:36.04 | somiaj | oh nevermind, sudo does have a -g group option for primary group |
| 02:36.11 | somiaj | sudo -g group - user |
| 02:36.22 | de-facto | I would need to run a program with user acme and group ssl-cert but user acme has login shell /bin/false |
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| 02:37.01 | de-facto | yeah "sudo -u acme -g ssl-cert id" works yet I could not find a "su ..." equivalent to it |
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| 02:38.05 | de-facto | its a homeless system account without shell |
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| 02:39.58 | somiaj | su -s /bin/bash -g ssl-cert -u acme |
| 02:40.22 | somiaj | man su for all the options, they are all there |
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| 02:46.24 | de-facto | would not be accepted by su |
| 02:47.31 | de-facto | ah this works: su acme -g ssl-cert -s /bin/sh -c id |
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| 02:48.12 | de-facto | thanks |
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| 03:45.55 | Lady_Aleena | Does sql get installed with debian? Does whichever sql program it is come with a graphical interface? |
| 03:46.21 | joepublic | no, and n/a |
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| 03:46.49 | Lady_Aleena | Why is a graphical interface non-applicable? |
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| 03:47.01 | joepublic | because there isn't a default sql installed? |
| 03:47.17 | joepublic | you could install mariadb and then use, say, mysqlworkbench as an interface |
| 03:48.22 | Lady_Aleena | That package does not exist. |
| 03:48.56 | joepublic | which package? |
| 03:49.29 | Lady_Aleena | mariadb |
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| 03:50.08 | joepublic | try apt-cache search mariadb for options. |
| 03:51.01 | joepublic | ,v mariadb-server |
| 03:51.02 | judd | Package: mariadb-server on amd64 -- jessie: 10.0.32-0+deb8u1; jessie-security: 10.0.38-0+deb8u1; stretch-security: 10.1.26-0+deb9u1; stretch-security: 10.1.37-0+deb9u1; stretch: 10.1.44-0+deb9u1; buster: 1:10.3.22-0+deb10u1; bullseye: 1:10.3.22-1; sid: 1:10.3.22-1 |
| 03:51.10 | joepublic | ,v mariadb-client |
| 03:51.11 | judd | Package: mariadb-client on amd64 -- jessie: 10.0.32-0+deb8u1; jessie-security: 10.0.38-0+deb8u1; stretch-security: 10.1.26-0+deb9u1; stretch-security: 10.1.37-0+deb9u1; stretch: 10.1.44-0+deb9u1; buster: 1:10.3.22-0+deb10u1; bullseye: 1:10.3.22-1; sid: 1:10.3.22-1 |
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| 03:51.18 | joepublic | ,v mysql-workbench |
| 03:51.19 | judd | Package: mysql-workbench on amd64 -- jessie: 6.2.3+dfsg-7; stretch: 6.3.8+dfsg-1; sid: 8.0.19+dfsg-1 |
| 03:51.28 | Lady_Aleena | Why does sql have to be such a pita. |
| 03:51.37 | joepublic | hmm, strike out on mysql-workbench |
| 03:51.46 | joepublic | I think that's a feature. |
| 03:52.25 | Lady_Aleena | So SQL is a pita just for fun? |
| 03:52.57 | joepublic | I don't find it all that fun, no :) |
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| 03:54.42 | Lady_Aleena | I store my data in flat text files, currently. It is getting to be a headache, and a lot of programmers that I know hate the way I store data. They keep telling me to use SQL. I just wish that there was a generic flavor of it. |
| 03:55.48 | joepublic | flat files -> sql is pretty straightforward as these things go |
| 03:58.36 | Lady_Aleena | Do I want both the server and client? |
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| 03:58.55 | joepublic | yes. |
| 03:59.23 | Lady_Aleena | Okeydokey, got them both. |
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| 04:01.24 | terr_ | Lady_Aleena, of course you want a server. Champagne please? |
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| 04:03.32 | Lady_Aleena | terr_, I know nearly nothing about SQL, but what the h***, I'll install something for it. |
| 04:05.32 | terr_ | you have many choices. I have PostgreSQL, MySQL, Oracle... |
| 04:05.54 | terr_ | none (thankfully) working right now. |
| 04:06.35 | Lady_Aleena | With so many programmers telling me to use SQL, I will eventually have to buckle. |
| 04:07.09 | Lady_Aleena | Just like one day I will have to figure out version control (more than likely git). |
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| 04:08.07 | terr_ | It depends what you want to do. grep works for many things |
| 04:08.19 | Lady_Aleena | grep works for what? |
| 04:08.25 | joepublic | ^^ |
| 04:08.58 | Lady_Aleena | I didn't think that grep had anything to do with data storage or version control. |
| 04:09.23 | terr_ | nope - it jsut lets you find things and that is basically all SQL does |
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| 04:09.57 | joepublic | sql does a little more than find things. |
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| 04:10.26 | Lady_Aleena | I write perl scripts that are currently use my flat data files (like csv, but with pipes). |
| 04:10.44 | Lady_Aleena | s/that are currently/that currently/; |
| 04:10.45 | terr_ | with SQL you need to load everything into tables. THese arae records in old style files. You can index these records via fields... and the issue is the data basically is in a columar format - and some here may disagree |
| 04:11.06 | joepublic | well, there's a reason for that... |
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| 04:12.03 | terr_ | joepublic, well enlighten us please |
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| 04:12.36 | joepublic | sql enables relational data storage, which is more robust and complex than simply isolated fields. |
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| 04:15.29 | Lady_Aleena | So, after installing mariadb-server and -client, is there a gui for it? |
| 04:15.37 | terr_ | joepublic, oh yes - of course. But Lady_Aleena is coming from flat files... I did not want to get sophisticated |
| 04:15.58 | joepublic | I would agree that grepping text files is pretty unsophisticated :) |
| 04:16.07 | terr_ | Lady_Aleena, I have never used maria |
| 04:16.39 | terr_ | I am pretty unsophistcated. until I get into 50,000 lines of code |
| 04:17.11 | Lady_Aleena | And now the song "Maria" from the Sound of Music is in my head. |
| 04:18.01 | terr_ | Julie Christie singing? |
| 04:18.12 | terr_ | I was listening to Fleetwood Mac |
| 04:18.42 | joepublic | Lady_Aleena, gmysqlcc shows up in an apt search. never tried it, but, that seems to be what's in stretch |
| 04:18.44 | joepublic | er buster |
| 04:18.55 | Lady_Aleena | So, I need a mariadb gui, but there isn't one? |
| 04:19.16 | joepublic | mariadb provides "mysql" for which there are a plethora of guis |
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| 04:19.42 | terr_ | Lady_Aleena, ANY SQL DBMS is going to be sophisticated... what do you need to do? |
| 04:20.14 | Lady_Aleena | Put some data into a form most programmers would use. |
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| 04:23.57 | Lady_Aleena | I may start working with someone on a project where the data I have collected into my flat text files might be put into use, however, if the person is more savvy than I am, he might prefer the data in a "better" format. |
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| 04:25.13 | terr_ | Lady_Aleena, I would prefer flat files. How big? |
| 04:25.28 | terr_ | if you can manage the flat file in an editor then its not big |
| 04:26.20 | Lady_Aleena | I have data on over 2,000 fictional characters across about 12 text files. |
| 04:26.23 | terr_ | I am actually not feeling well - I just dropped in for a few minutes. |
| 04:26.30 | terr_ | how many lines? |
| 04:27.08 | Lady_Aleena | The main character file has 2,200 lines. |
| 04:27.17 | terr_ | that is not large |
| 04:27.26 | terr_ | I have source files bigger |
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| 04:27.39 | terr_ | what editor do you use? |
| 04:27.44 | Lady_Aleena | Geany |
| 04:27.55 | terr_ | Oh - never heard of that one. |
| 04:28.03 | joepublic | I also use geany |
| 04:28.07 | Lady_Aleena | What text editor do you use terr_? |
| 04:28.57 | terr_ | I use vim and emacs. Now Kate is starting to grow on me a bit - but no lap dancing yet. My favorite is Brief - which is from the 1980s. the Good Ol 1980s |
| 04:29.03 | Lady_Aleena | And terr_, if you need to go lie down to feel better, I won't keep you from your bed. |
| 04:29.24 | terr_ | I'm okay. I might just need to get a drink |
| 04:29.58 | Lady_Aleena | I need to go to the kitchen for about 5 minutes to put together another pitcher of tea. |
| 04:30.17 | terr_ | Iced tea? |
| 04:30.18 | Lady_Aleena | terr_, drink water. |
| 04:30.23 | Lady_Aleena | Yes, iced tea. |
| 04:30.24 | oiaohm | Lady_Aleena: for writing how you do your char layout is personal choice. Some writers like a file per char others prefer to group relegated chars into a single file. |
| 04:30.45 | Lady_Aleena | Each character gets one line. |
| 04:31.12 | Lady_Aleena | ...in the main file. There are many other files with additional data on characters if applicable. |
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| 04:32.49 | Lady_Aleena | http://fantasy.xecu.net/files/data/Fandom/Xanth/characters.txt is the current version of the main character file. |
| 04:34.39 | oiaohm | Lady_Aleena: for a play I did I used DIA a long time ago. Please note any diagram program would work to graphically do up char interrelation ship as a poster I could get print up and put on wall as reference. |
| 04:35.42 | oiaohm | That did turn out useful when I had to write a complete char out of the script because we were going to be a person short. |
| 04:36.33 | oiaohm | Lady_Aleena: all I can say is try different things and keep what works for you. |
| 04:37.55 | terr_ | oiaohm, I am conserned that pretty much ANY real SQL database is going to be huge overkill. |
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| 04:38.40 | terr_ | I need help with IP. I can do this: ip a show wlp2s0 and it does show the interface. it shows it as up. I want to down it. |
| 04:39.02 | terr_ | BRB |
| 04:39.57 | Lady_Aleena | oiaohm, dia sucks when it renders to svg. |
| 04:42.13 | terr_ | I am not eating cornflakes for Breakfast no more! I have something better |
| 04:43.29 | Lady_Aleena | Mix corn flakes with frosted flakes (50%/50%), and it is good. |
| 04:43.36 | terr_ | Lady_Aleena, you said 2200 lines. How long are they - and are they formated in a columnar style? |
| 04:43.50 | Lady_Aleena | terr_, see http://fantasy.xecu.net/files/data/Fandom/Xanth/characters.txt |
| 04:43.53 | terr_ | Lady_Aleena, fattening and too much sugar |
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| 04:45.06 | Lady_Aleena | SOB! Firefox wrapped the lines. |
| 04:46.02 | Lady_Aleena | The longest line is 1,724 characters. |
| 04:46.45 | terr_ | Aaron (WTC.1) <-- a character? |
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| 04:48.31 | Lady_Aleena | Yes. |
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| 04:50.18 | Lady_Aleena | By the way, I keep the headings in the code. |
| 04:50.29 | Lady_Aleena | s/code/perl code/; |
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| 04:53.10 | Lady_Aleena | And is this still on-topic? |
| 04:53.18 | terr_ | so you have a character followed by attributes followed by text |
| 04:53.25 | Lady_Aleena | Yes. |
| 04:53.30 | terr_ | we can go to offtopic. |
| 04:53.50 | Lady_Aleena | Yeah, I think we drifted off topic. 8) |
| 04:54.18 | terr_ | can someone help me with iwconfig? I want to down WiFI |
| 04:55.23 | Lady_Aleena | terr_, have you tried to get help in ##linux? |
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| 04:58.01 | oiaohm | Lady_Aleena: please note I said a long time ago. |
| 04:58.22 | oiaohm | Lady_Aleena: back then rendering svg was not exactly important. |
| 04:58.47 | Lady_Aleena | Ah, I tried dia several months ago, and I was horrified by the svg output. |
| 05:00.08 | Lady_Aleena | However, while inkscape may be the premier gui svg program, even it writes svg bloated. |
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