| 00:01.40 | Gryllida | n-iCe: Open Session and Startup from Menu - > Settings -> Settings Manager. Untick the Automatically save sessions on logout under Logout Settings. |
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| 00:01.52 | Gryllida | jmcnaught: thank you, will give it a try. :) |
| 00:02.04 | n-iCe | Gryllida: it is unticked |
| 00:02.37 | Gryllida | n-iCe: okay. Click on the Session tab and then click on âClear saved sessionsâ to bring up a dialog box. |
| 00:02.47 | n-iCe | Gryllida: I deleted it |
| 00:03.26 | Gryllida | n-iCe: then, it should only start the windows which are specified in "Autostart" section of settings. |
| 00:03.38 | Gryllida | n-iCe: if this is not the case, perhaps ask #xfce too. |
| 00:04.44 | n-iCe | let me try, rebootinh thanks |
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| 00:06.54 | trek00 | Gryllida: may be you can set the cpu scaling governor to powersave: echo powersave | tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu[0-9]*/cpufreq/scaling_governor |
| 00:07.42 | Gryllida | trek00: is this what thermald does? |
| 00:09.00 | Maizum | after install nvidia driver i need to login on tty2 also to have desktop working any idea? |
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| 00:09.10 | Maizum | Xfce4 |
| 00:12.09 | trek00 | Gryllida: may be thermald does more things i don't know |
| 00:12.52 | Maizum | after install nvidia driver i need to loging on tty also to start xfce4 any idea?Xorg conflit? |
| 00:13.12 | trek00 | Maizum: if you don't log in on tty, what happens? |
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| 00:13.32 | Maizum | i can see painel and mouse pointer |
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| 00:13.40 | Maizum | not desktop |
| 00:14.08 | trek00 | Maizum: then after login on a tty, the desktop appears on the X session? |
| 00:14.23 | Maizum | yes verything |
| 00:14.31 | Maizum | works then |
| 00:14.51 | Maizum | everything |
| 00:15.48 | trek00 | Maizum: i really don't know, is there some non-standard configuration? some error messages on screen or inside log files like /var/log/syslog? |
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| 00:17.28 | Maizum | no |
| 00:17.56 | Maizum | It hapens always after nvidia install i did several times |
| 00:18.04 | trek00 | Maizum: it should run fine, then |
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| 00:20.13 | Maizum | im ok ,just feeling stupid to login twice |
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| 00:22.20 | trek00 | Maizum: you need to login or just switch to a tty than switch back to X? |
| 00:22.44 | Maizum | good question,i always login dont know |
| 00:23.19 | Maizum | wait,i did it once ....yes i need to login |
| 00:24.30 | trek00 | Maizum: it's strange and difficult to debug without error messages |
| 00:26.14 | Maizum | ok thanks to try |
| 00:27.45 | trek00 | Maizum: it seems similar to that one https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=13940 |
| 00:28.09 | trek00 | Maizum: are you running stable? |
| 00:28.16 | Maizum | yes |
| 00:28.58 | Maizum | maybe i need Enable the system to boot into GUI after install nvidia |
| 00:29.01 | Maizum | systemctl set-default graphical.target |
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| 00:31.31 | Maizum | looks the same |
| 00:31.34 | Maizum | issue |
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| 00:31.57 | trek00 | Maizum: which version of debian are you running? |
| 00:32.43 | Maizum | Debian 4.19.98-1+deb10u1 |
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| 00:37.53 | trek00 | Maizum: may be remove anti-tearing from nvidia-settings? https://forum.manjaro.org/t/nvidia-390-25-xfce-login-problem-workaround/42070/10 |
| 00:38.08 | Maizum | let me check |
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| 00:42.15 | Maizum | i will try to change that and reboot,thanks |
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| 00:43.32 | Maizum | bye |
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| 01:57.50 | mason | Did something significant change between Debian 9 and 10 re: fail2ban? Trying to spin up a Buster equivalent to a server, and I don't see fail2ban spinning up its iptables entries. |
| 01:58.56 | sponix | think there might be a new one, something not called iptables anymore |
| 01:59.13 | mason | Right, but iptables still exists as a compatibility layer. |
| 01:59.48 | mason | And I don't think fail2ban has learned about nftables |
| 02:00.14 | mason | Oh, it does know about nftables. |
| 02:00.18 | mason | hrm |
| 02:00.37 | sponix | well, hope you are good now |
| 02:00.48 | mason | Well, no. :P |
| 02:00.59 | sponix | I have fail2ban installed, or at least thought I did -- and don't even have nftables installed |
| 02:01.14 | mason | On Buster? |
| 02:01.28 | sponix | Yes |
| 02:01.37 | sponix | Buster base anyway |
| 02:01.51 | mason | It's working unproblematically on Stretch here. I've not yet found what's different. |
| 02:02.40 | sponix | I'm going to check my logs if possible, and see if it is doing "anything" for me lol |
| 02:02.59 | mason | sponix: You should see iptables it set up. |
| 02:03.13 | mason | sponix: You can also say fail2ban-client status to see what's active. |
| 02:03.38 | mason | For me, identical between the two systems, just no iptables, which means it's effectively doing nothing. |
| 02:04.40 | sponix | mason: yeah, that status says it is active on sshd. But my iptables is blank, and my fail2ban.log is also -- so seems it is either purely cosmetic for me, or working some damn good it has no complaints :) |
| 02:05.00 | mason | sponix: That sounds like it's not working. You should see stuff in your iptables list. |
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| 02:05.08 | mason | I wonder if it's just quietly broken on Buster and no one's noticed. |
| 02:05.36 | mason | Busted on Busterâ |
| 02:05.47 | sponix | sney: you about ? |
| 02:06.13 | sney | yeah but I don't actually use netfilter |
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| 02:06.40 | sponix | I don't feel safe anymore |
| 02:06.54 | sponix | quick, everyone hit my rig and see if it does something |
| 02:06.57 | mason | hah |
| 02:07.04 | sponix | sponix.asuscomm.com |
| 02:07.36 | sponix | don't r00t me bro |
| 02:07.57 | sney | I firewall on separate devices, and it's possible your provider does too |
| 02:08.44 | mason | This will seem faithless, but I'm just going to spin up an Ubuntu server to compare. =cough= |
| 02:09.05 | mason | I don't want to upgrade/migrate stuff if it's going to randomly stop working. |
| 02:10.05 | sponix | hmm... I almost have the energy to break out Google for this |
| 02:10.12 | sponix | getting closer anyway |
| 02:10.18 | mason | I'm digging through DuckDuckGo in search. |
| 02:11.57 | mason | Hm, stubbed out iptables and the stub simply isn't being invoked. |
| 02:13.54 | mason | And it's not quietly calling ip6tables instead. |
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| 02:15.53 | sponix | https://serverfault.com/questions/997099/fail2ban-on-debian-buster-the-right-way-to-configure |
| 02:16.46 | mason | sponix: Saw that one earlier. I didn't see anything that mattered there. If you do maybe I missed it. |
| 02:17.04 | mason | sponix: That's saying to use .local files, but I'm using the very traditional jail.d/foo.conf |
| 02:17.13 | mason | and I see the rules being loaded |
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| 02:17.43 | mason | Anyway, I've reverted to pointing at my Stretch box for now. Not going to leave things flapping in the breeze this long. |
| 02:17.59 | sponix | mason: well, the jail.conf recommends you copy it to jail.local and then uncomment the sshd enabled section at min |
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| 02:18.15 | sponix | mason: seems it isn't even truly active unless you do that |
| 02:18.19 | sponix | goes to try it |
| 02:18.41 | mason | sponix: Did you not see it when you said fail2ban-client status ? |
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| 02:21.55 | lol-md5 | my server loses its IPv4 IP about an hour after bot |
| 02:21.56 | lol-md5 | boot* |
| 02:21.59 | lol-md5 | what should i do |
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| 02:28.21 | sponix | mason: after following that guide with fail2ban.local file, "enabled = true" under sshd section, setting my port to 66534 (my port I use for ssh), and a few other things. It is not at least writing to /var/log/fail2ban.log with information that makes it look functional |
| 02:28.46 | sponix | mason: I recommend you give that webpage a 2nd look as it does seem Buster needs a little more fail2ban love to get it going :) |
| 02:28.48 | mason | sponix: Do you see rules? |
| 02:29.00 | sponix | goes to check |
| 02:29.00 | mason | iptables -L, do you see fail2ban tables? |
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| 02:29.24 | saptech | hello all |
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| 02:29.45 | mason | sponix: Even if there are no hits, it ought to set up the tables so they exist and are ready for rules. |
| 02:29.50 | saptech | I recently purchased an Epson WF-3720 AIO printer. Running Debian Linux, I have the printer & scanner working, but I can't use the ADF tray. Any ideas/suggestions on getting it working? |
| 02:29.57 | sponix | mason: nope, still no rules. But from what I read it is only going to add a ban to iptables if it is triggered |
| 02:30.26 | mason | sponix: Easily tested. And in this case since I'm migrating an active server, there were no end of IPs it ought to have banned. |
| 02:30.42 | sponix | mason: try to hit my sponix.asuscomm.com with ssh on port 66534 a few times and see if it does anything ? |
| 02:30.59 | mason | sponix: Argh, kk. I hate doing that even when requested but I'll do it. |
| 02:31.21 | sponix | 2020-05-05 21:26:30,819 fail2ban.server [4716]: INFO Jail sshd is not a JournalFilter instance |
| 02:31.22 | sponix | 2020-05-05 21:26:30,819 fail2ban.filter [4716]: INFO Added logfile: '/var/log/auth.log' (pos = 2604169, hash = b9d0b4db607c04d8ca639426fa94130460c9a08b) |
| 02:32.05 | mason | Wait, that's a trick port. |
| 02:33.13 | sponix | mason: 65534 is valid |
| 02:33.41 | mason | you said 66534 |
| 02:34.00 | mason | sponix: But if you could connect to it that'd be better. I only attack my own stuff. |
| 02:34.31 | sponix | mason: oh, well I meant 65534 -- read my mind ;) |
| 02:35.00 | sponix | mason: well I did connect from my phone, and nothing logged in fail2ban about it, and /var/log/auth.log does show my sshd login as legit |
| 02:35.23 | mason | sponix: You want a failed attempt for fail2ban to nuke you |
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| 02:35.32 | mason | or several, depending on the tolerance oyu set |
| 02:36.51 | sponix | mason: I know.. let me exit from my phone and put in the wrong password, and try that a dozen times or so :) |
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| 02:37.16 | mason | should only be... 3? Server's shut down now as I quickly spin up an Ubuntu test. |
| 02:37.36 | mason | sponix: check your maxretry setting to see how often to hit it |
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| 02:40.59 | sponix | mason: it is like 10 |
| 02:41.10 | mason | ah, that's a lot then, sorry |
| 02:42.54 | sponix | I could always change it.. Just what I did |
| 02:43.25 | sponix | mason: well... Yeah, I need to change my default ban action from iptables-multisomething to just iptables -- but it did just try to run it after the dozen or so failed attempts, so it is working |
| 02:43.26 | mason | don't forget to reload the service |
| 02:43.40 | sponix | I just need to fix that, and it should generate the iptables rule |
| 02:43.53 | mason | sponix: Eh? You needed to move iptables-multiport to iptables for it to work? |
| 02:44.42 | mason | sponix: in Stretch, banaction = iptables-multiport works and generates iptables rules |
| 02:45.07 | mason | Good thought though. I'll try it. |
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| 02:46.51 | sponix | r sponix from 192.168.1.1 port 50582 ssh2 [preauth]\nMay 5 21:42:14 sponix sshd[24976]: Failed password for sponix from 192.168.1.1 port 50606 ssh2', 'ipfailures': 10, 'ipjailfailures': 10})': Error starting action Jail('sshd')/iptables |
| 02:47.14 | sponix | I am still getting a fail |
| 02:47.25 | mason | That sounds like it didn't put in the rule. |
| 02:47.27 | sponix | and not sure why it is saying I am doing port 50582... That isn't my ssh port at all lol |
| 02:47.36 | mason | client port |
| 02:47.42 | sponix | no, it is still failing to generate the actual rule |
| 02:47.51 | mason | right, but that's your client port for that ssh connection |
| 02:48.12 | mason | oh, 50582, not 50606 |
| 02:49.00 | mason | sponix: Changing banaction to iptables did nothing here. |
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| 02:49.24 | sponix | mason: maybe I need the banaction to be iptables-nft or iptables-legacy :) |
| 02:49.38 | mason | hrm |
| 02:50.16 | mason | sponix: No such things. Look in /etc/fail2ban/action.d |
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| 02:52.18 | sponix | 2020-05-05 21:51:47,095 fail2ban.jail [4551]: INFO Jail 'sshd' started |
| 02:52.18 | sponix | 2020-05-05 21:51:47,284 fail2ban.actions [4551]: NOTICE [sshd] Restore Ban 192.168.1.1 |
| 02:52.31 | mason | sponix: And you see rules now? |
| 02:52.32 | sponix | mason: it internally knows I am banned at least, just a matter of it doing something about it now |
| 02:52.37 | mason | heh |
| 02:52.42 | sponix | mason: I just toggled it to ufw -- cause why not LOL |
| 02:52.45 | sponix | gonna try again |
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| 02:54.06 | mason | If fail2ban were less of an awful snarl I'd just trace it. |
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| 02:56.01 | sponix | sponix sshd[23032]: error: maximum authentication attempts exceeded for sponix from 192.168.1.1 port 50582 ssh2 [preauth]\nMay 5 21:42:14 sponix sshd[24976]: Failed password for sponix from 192.168.1.1 port 50606 ssh2', 'ipfailures': 10, 'ipjailfailures': 10})': Error banning 192.168.1.1 |
| 02:56.27 | mason | sponix: And now... you see rules? |
| 02:56.56 | sponix | trying, I don't know how to work ufw lol |
| 02:57.03 | sponix | going to see if they show up in gufw now |
| 02:57.13 | mason | sponix: Here's the thing - even without active bad guys to ban there should be actionstart = <iptables> -N f2b-<name> and others at service start time. |
| 02:57.52 | sponix | it still can't figure out how to ban me |
| 02:57.56 | sponix | still no rules |
| 02:58.02 | mason | This is not encouraging. |
| 02:58.04 | sponix | goes to look at the documentation again |
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| 03:01.09 | sponix | https://askubuntu.com/questions/54771/potential-ufw-and-fail2ban-conflicts |
| 03:01.20 | sponix | yeah, this is just going to take some tinkering |
| 03:01.40 | sponix | mason: when I get it figured out I will publish it to sponix.tk/Downloads/HowToBasic/fail2ban |
| 03:01.52 | mason | sponix: Cool - please ping me if you do, and I'll do the same. |
| 03:01.55 | mason | Reading the package docs now. |
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| 03:12.20 | sponix | 2020-05-05 22:11:52,502 fail2ban.actions [26650]: WARNING [sshd] 192.168.1.1 already banned |
| 03:12.20 | sponix | 2020-05-05 22:11:59,062 fail2ban.filter [26650]: INFO [sshd] Found 192.168.1.1 - 2020-05-05 22:11:58 |
| 03:12.28 | sponix | still isn't writing to ufw though |
| 03:12.38 | mason | sponix: There's something borquen. |
| 03:13.08 | mason | My Ubuntu 18.04 test VM is almost up and ready to test, and that'll help figure out if it's something in the Debian package or not. |
| 03:13.26 | mason | Ubuntu's fixed stuff that's lagged in Debian in the past, so it'll be a useful data point. |
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| 03:21.42 | somiaj | mason: have you compared the two packages, maybe read changelogs? |
| 03:22.09 | somiaj | also sometimes looking through the ubuntu bug reports can help find what they did (if there is a change) |
| 03:22.13 | mason | somiaj: Not as yet. |
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| 03:22.31 | mason | somiaj: As with so many tasks, this wasn't on the menu for the evening. |
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| 03:23.00 | somiaj | I was just trying to think of soemthing that might be simipler than seting up a full vm |
| 03:23.43 | mason | Oh, setting up the VM is easy. No thought, it largely installs itself. |
| 03:24.00 | mason | I don't need to set up services to see if fail2ban sets up tables. |
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| 03:30.04 | sponix | https://codepoets.co.uk/2019/fail2ban-debian-buster-10-and-iptables-vs-nftables/ |
| 03:30.28 | sponix | mason: that might restore function to iptables for fail2ban :) |
| 03:30.50 | mason | sponix: OOh, that looks promising. |
| 03:31.06 | mason | sponix: You win the Internet, sir. |
| 03:31.39 | mason | sponix: And you brought up nftables right at the start. |
| 03:31.46 | mason | So, multiple package bugs. \o/ |
| 03:35.17 | sponix | mason: I did that update-alternatives stuff, and it is running with pretty much stock config now :) |
| 03:35.38 | sponix | wrote the iptables rule like it should |
| 03:36.04 | sponix | connection from my phone now refused |
| 03:36.04 | mason | FWIW, Ubuntu 18.04 seems to suffer similarly. |
| 03:36.06 | mason | nice |
| 03:36.11 | mason | Thank you for finding that. |
| 03:36.32 | sponix | took longer than normal. I always find a solution, just a matter of time :) |
| 03:40.32 | kline | does Alex Wirt ever hang out here? |
| 03:41.30 | kline | I need to contact them directly regarding some infra they run |
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| 03:42.14 | annadane | kline, pretty sure he's a maintainer, did you try his email? |
| 03:43.12 | sponix | mason: Yeah.... It is correctly banning me through iptables now. I will bookmark that. And sleep a little safer at night knowing no Malaysians can brute force my ssh ;) |
| 03:43.22 | annadane | i found the username but i dunno if i should just say it in the chat |
| 03:43.50 | mason | sponix: cool cool |
| 03:44.21 | kline | annadane, i realised theres a -ops so ive left details in there |
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| 03:44.45 | annadane | s/maintainer/developer |
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| 03:45.33 | annadane | oftc is official so devs would tend to hang out there instead and if not in #debian then #debian-devel |
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| 04:17.37 | mason | sponix: Another way to test: sudo fail2ban-client set sshd unbanip IP_ADDRESS |
| 04:17.54 | mason | and it seems it doens't set up tables until it needs them, so one of my initial assumptions was broken |
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| 04:32.44 | sponix | mason: when it is just me in iptables .. I just sudo failt2ban-client unball --all |
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| 04:33.13 | mason | cool |
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| 05:00.15 | sponix | Unit193: you alive ? |
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| 05:18.52 | mason | sponix: So, fail2ban in its newer versions turns off the error logs that I actually cared about. Craziness. |
| 05:19.44 | sponix | mason: I told it to do apache, and it gave me a blank stare ... seems it as a whole needs some love |
| 05:20.03 | mason | I'm thinking of just moving on. I want it for Postfix and similar. |
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| 05:20.40 | mason | Easier to just write my own I think. I've got parsers that comb through logs to find badness, and they're a far sight simpler than what fail2ban has become. |
| 05:21.28 | mason | Also, I noticed that xbl.spamhaus lists most of the sites that'd otherwise be banned, so that might help obviate the issue. |
| 05:22.01 | mason | My random sampling of five hosts that did doorknob jiggling had five positive results from xbl. |
| 05:22.12 | mason | Can't argue with that. |
| 05:22.28 | mason | Anyway, thanks again, and have a good night. o/ |
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| 05:51.08 | pyface | generally speaking, does a Lenovo Thinkpad T series have less hardware issues than a Thinkpad E series? |
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| 05:52.36 | sponix | pyface: Lenova just started doing them pre-installed with Fedora.. you might just want one of those |
| 05:52.46 | sponix | compat wise.. not fedora wise :) |
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| 05:57.22 | pyface | interesting. i see they'll have it optionally preinstalled on the thinkpad P and X series , and possibly other models later on |
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| 06:07.47 | setra | hello I encountered after jessie to buster upgrade the issue that if I start a virtualmachine that in my syslog appears failed to get cgroup backend for 'getCpuacctUsage' and my virtual machine does not start. I tried all I could find and added a Delegate=yes to the Service but nothing really helps. Fact is that no virtual machine can be started anymore |
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| 06:25.10 | lwp | setra, I hope you upgraded jessie->stretch first, and then stretch->buster. |
| 06:25.45 | Unit193 | sponix: Yep. |
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| 06:28.03 | sponix2ipfw | Unit193: saw you are doing a Liquorix kernel mirror. Pretty cool |
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| 06:30.51 | Unit193 | Ah, that's been there a while now. IIRC he now uses a CDN so there's no point not to use that. |
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| 07:08.04 | oxek | this has been bothering me on a new debian xfce installation and I finally found a solution here: https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/8uyoic/unwanted_context_menu_behaviour_after_update_to/ |
| 07:08.27 | oxek | it this issue caused by debian, xfce, or firefox? |
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| 07:08.53 | oxek | I'd like to make a report somewhere that this bug has not been fixed yet despite happening for over a year |
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| 07:34.17 | shtrb | What would be the proper syntax for apparmor to avoid ( audit: type=1400 audit(1588750217.481:104): apparmor="DENIED" operation="file_mmap" profile="/usr/bin/pidgin//sanitized_helper" name="/tmp/.glzUh8qM" pid=9442 comm="x-www-browser" requested_mask="m" denied_mask="m" fsuid=1000 ouid=1000 ) I tried adding " /tmp/.gl* rm," (without quotes ) in /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.pidgin but I still got the alert |
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| 10:03.08 | ratrace | shtrb: the profile is for /usr/bin/pidgin//sanitized_helper and you need owner /tmp/.gl* mrw, |
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| 10:05.54 | shtrb | ratrace, does that mean I need to create a new file usr.bin.pidgin.santized_helper or something else ? I'm absolutely lost here |
| 10:06.28 | ratrace | shtrb: lemme look through the profiles in the packages, I'm not familiar with pidgin |
| 10:06.41 | shtrb | thanks |
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| 10:09.15 | ratrace | shtrb: okay I see. the sanitized helper is in abstractions/ubuntu-helpers and used via abstractions/ubuntu-browsers which is included in the pidgin profile |
| 10:09.58 | ratrace | shtrb: ubuntu is apparmor upstream so that's where the stupid name comes from. anyway, problem is the whole sanitized_helper abstraction does not expect gpu acceleration needing userland file access, like nvidia does. |
| 10:11.40 | ratrace | shtrb: so, one hack would be to add those rules in the /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/ubuntu-helpers, in the "sanitized_helper" profile, you can add it near the end, BUT.... it'll get overwritten with next update unless the package manager will back off seeing the file is under /etc, I don't know |
| 10:11.58 | ratrace | unfortunately the abstraction(s) do not have #includes built in for local user overrides, like main profiles do |
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| 10:12.32 | ratrace | that'd be one reason why I almost never use packaged profiles and build my own, even if I take the packaged profiles as a starting point. |
| 10:14.02 | ratrace | you could also try to file a bug but that requires a report via launchpad.net and in my experience usually falls on deaf eears so I'm not bothering, I just build my own profiles. |
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| 10:14.47 | ratrace | (and even if you did file a bug, it wouldn't reach debian until bullseye) |
| 10:15.17 | ratrace | ((I mean if you filed and they somehow agreed to fix it)) |
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| 10:19.09 | ratrace | shtrb: you'll need these to stfu nvidia: https://bpaste.net/KVRQ |
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| 10:31.00 | shtrb | ratrace, thank you will try soon |
| 10:31.05 | f8e4 | is using pyenv like raping debian? |
| 10:31.11 | f8e4 | it feels non native |
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| 10:37.36 | shtrb | For crying out loud , damn it with apparmor |
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| 11:32.39 | oxek | How do I synchronize time on debian? I know it should do it automatically, but it does not, so I need to do it manually (but not as manually as setting the actual time manually). |
| 11:33.10 | oxek | is there some command to one-off synchronize time on-demand? |
| 11:33.16 | bguebert | time command is ntpdate i think |
| 11:33.39 | oxek | is that supposed to be installed by default? |
| 11:33.48 | bguebert | I don't think so |
| 11:34.12 | oxek | `apt show ntpdate` says "ntpdate is deprecated" |
| 11:34.33 | ksk | oxek: might be related to systemd-timesync-whatdoIknow |
| 11:34.37 | bguebert | my info must be out of date then |
| 11:34.43 | antto | can i guess that it's probably systemd's job ;P~ |
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| 11:34.54 | ksk | deprecated does not mean you cannot use it, btw. ntpdate is fine imho. |
| 11:35.06 | oxek | antto: probably is, but it is not doing a good job, my time is 18s off and it is messing up my TOTP codes |
| 11:35.14 | shtrb | oxek ntpupdate -b ntpserver, you can also you the nntpsec-ntpdate which is not deprcated |
| 11:35.31 | oxek | ksk: to me, deprecated means it can/will be removed in some next version of debian |
| 11:35.37 | ksk | oxek: if your time dilates too much in $timeframe, you will rather need an ntpd and not just a one-time-sync |
| 11:35.41 | antto | oxek you've properly configured your timezone, right? |
| 11:35.45 | shtrb | -b will update no matter what , (even if you have over 0.5 sec difference ) |
| 11:35.52 | ksk | oxek: correct. it will take some time till the next release though :) |
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| 11:36.05 | oxek | antto: yes, timezone is set correctly |
| 11:36.24 | oxek | codes are valid for 30s, so an 18s diff is huge for me |
| 11:37.45 | oxek | shtrb: which package is ntpupdate in? I don't see it when I do `apt search ntpupdate` nor `apt-file search ntpupdate` |
| 11:38.06 | shtrb | oxek, ntpsec-ntpdate |
| 11:38.32 | shtrb | *ntpdate sorry I had a typo |
| 11:38.52 | oxek | ah I see, nntp sounded reasonable to me :) |
| 11:39.04 | shtrb | oxek , ntpdate -b ntpserver (one time command ) |
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| 11:43.00 | IsUp | hello. what is the best way to set system-wide env variables? |
| 11:44.54 | ratrace | IsUp: /etc/environment.d/ see environment.d(5) manpage |
| 11:48.52 | IsUp | ratrace: i need to set env variables for 'freeswitch.service'. right now i am using /etc/default/freeswitch to accomplish this. is this should be avoided? |
| 11:49.55 | IsUp | http://paste.debian.net/hidden/f84bc654/ |
| 11:49.57 | satanist | hi i have alwas problems with copy paste under x, because there are 3 diffrend selection one programm uses primary and an other programm reads out of the clipboard. is there a way to merge these three selections? |
| 11:53.14 | joepublic | The nice thing about clipboard standards is that there are so many to choose from |
| 11:53.43 | bguebert | isn't that a bad thing when you want them to work together? |
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| 11:58.08 | satanist | x11 selection work very well, exept for this three diffrend selection thing |
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| 12:00.42 | ratrace | IsUp: |
| 12:01.11 | ratrace | IsUp: as you can see it has the EnvironmentFile directive, which is okay. /etc/default/ has always been a place to specify env vars for services. |
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| 12:01.26 | ratrace | IsUp: however, that's not "system wide" as you originally asked. |
| 12:02.00 | ratrace | satanist: there's two, not three cliboards under xorg. depending on your DE, there might be extensions that merge them if they aren't already |
| 12:02.26 | annadane | somiaj, just for your information, xset s off && xset -dpms does work in MATE |
| 12:03.14 | bguebert | putting that env var in /etc/profile would work for users logged in, not sure about cron jobs and things like that or if it is the "best" way |
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| 12:06.34 | IsUp | ratrace: got it. i am just testing /etc/environment - is there any way to reload this file after making changes instead of reboot? |
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| 12:12.13 | ratrace | IsUp: you can `systemctl daemon-reload` |
| 12:14.55 | IsUp | ratrace: it didnt reload /etc/environment |
| 12:14.57 | satanist | ratrace: WM is i3, so I doubt there some extention for merging this |
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| 12:15.39 | ratrace | satanist: ah, no there isn't afaik. if you're having trouble with the terminal, the terminal itself might have plugins or configurations, like urxvt does for example |
| 12:15.54 | satanist | also according to /usr/share/doc/xorg-docs/icccm/icccm.html there are three selections ``clients need deal with'' |
| 12:16.04 | ratrace | I use i3-wm too and sometimes it pisses me off, those two separate clipboards |
| 12:16.20 | satanist | why is this i3-wm problem? |
| 12:16.39 | oxek | shtrb: ntpsec-ntpdate installed both `ntpdate` and `ntpdig`, any idea which one is better to use? |
| 12:16.59 | satanist | this is a xorg problem, why are there multible selections for copy paste without an config option to merge them |
| 12:17.03 | ratrace | satanist: there's really two, "primary" and "clipboard". I don't think any application uses "secondary" these days |
| 12:18.21 | ratrace | satanist: it's a complete mess kind of problem. basically it's xorg's main fault and DEs/WMs may or may not merge them into one. i3-wm surely doesn't, as it's just a WM and not a DE so I guess the devs think it's not its job to manage the "clipboards" |
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| 12:19.08 | shtrb | oxek, for one time ntpdate would be enough |
| 12:19.39 | ratrace | IsUp: then I'm sorry, I wouldn't know. daemon-reload _should_ work, as that reloads and reinits the generators, and per systemd.environment-generator(7) manpage, that's exactly what should've happened |
| 12:20.16 | ratrace | IsUp: however, it also says the reload will affect any service started subsequently... |
| 12:20.45 | IsUp | ratrace: thank you so much |
| 12:23.38 | jmd | Does anyone know what the holdup is getting Gettext 0.2 into Debian? |
| 12:24.27 | somiaj | annadane: still surprised there isn't a configuration for that, but I use that for my wm. I almost think you could put options in xorg.conf to make that default, but I have been too lazy to do that, so instead I type that command into my laptop every time I reboot it |
| 12:24.43 | satanist | ratrace: you know how selections work? for a client (even if it's the DE/WM) there is no way to merge them, the only way is to read them out and take ownershipp |
| 12:25.21 | satanist | taking ownershipp is something I don't want, because I use a pwmanager based on selections |
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| 12:25.43 | annadane | somiaj, well i just put it in my mate startup programs |
| 12:26.47 | somiaj | after 10+ years I have yet to do that too. shows how little I have to reboot |
| 12:27.24 | annadane | we'll see if it gets fixed in debian 11's mate |
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| 12:34.33 | ratrace | satanist: well then pick one and use it, eg. the "clipboard" one, so you explicitely need to copy and paste instead of rely on selection |
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| 12:38.59 | satanist | the problem I have is, that some programms use one selection and other a other one, so I can't sometimes direct copy and have some old data in the selection |
| 12:39.31 | satanist | so I want to tell xorg that all three default selections are handled as they would be the same |
| 12:40.17 | ratrace | satanist: most if not all GUI prorgams can use "clipboard" via ctrl-(shift-)c and -v. terminals usually need coercing to do so. urxvt, for example, can do it and there's a config option for that. |
| 12:41.11 | ratrace | using selection is really very annoying. you can't select this text, then copy, then select this text then replace with copied. any selection replaces previous in memory. |
| 12:41.44 | satanist | this would still only be a workaround and only work in programms i (can) config to do so, I want to solve the problem |
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| 12:43.31 | ratrace | satanist: per definition of the problem it's unsolvable. ctrl-c is explicit copy action. merging that with selection would make it obsolete, as you have to select to copy, and selection would already do the copy. |
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| 12:43.52 | ratrace | so ideally you'd want to coerce all programs to use ctrl-(shift-)c and -v |
| 12:43.54 | oxek | shtrb: I suspect `ntpdate` actually calls `ntpdig` because /usr/sbin/ntpdate is a script |
| 12:44.07 | shtrb | shrug |
| 12:44.32 | ratrace | I thought ntpdate was deprecated and no longer used |
| 12:44.48 | oxek | ratrace: yeah, this is ntpdate from the ntpsec-ntpdate package |
| 12:44.53 | oxek | not the original ntpdate |
| 12:44.59 | oxek | which is indeed deprecated |
| 12:44.59 | ratrace | ah |
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| 12:46.00 | pitch | hey there. on debian buster i am missing /etc/sysconfig/ and configs. are they somewhere else or are they not preinstalled? |
| 12:46.56 | ratrace | pitch: I never saw /etc/sysconfig on debian... isnt' that rpm-based distros thing? |
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| 12:47.05 | pitch | possible. |
| 12:47.11 | pitch | first time debian user. |
| 12:47.21 | pitch | since 2007 at least |
| 12:47.28 | pitch | so where is the nfs config? |
| 12:47.37 | satanist | ratrace: I understand this is the default behavior, but this doesn't match my usage, therefore I'm searching for a flag/option to change it |
| 12:48.21 | ratrace | pitch: services are now handled by systemd. env for services is in /etc/default unless they explicitly set env via service unit. network is in /etc/network/interfaces if you're using default ifupdown framework |
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| 12:49.06 | ratrace | satanist: I don't think one exists. |
| 12:49.27 | bguebert | nfs config is in /etc/export |
| 12:49.29 | satanist | thanks all I wanted to know |
| 12:49.48 | pitch | bguebert: i am not talking about the decalration of shares but the config of nfs |
| 12:50.09 | pitch | its in /etc/default |
| 12:50.14 | bguebert | oh, my bad |
| 12:50.15 | pitch | thanks ratrace |
| 12:50.27 | pitch | to control versions and so on |
| 12:50.45 | pitch | (windows hating protocols that are not older than 10 years |
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| 12:53.40 | pitch | what do i need portmap for? in the (very old) wiki its described as mandatory as soon as i use <v4 nfs. but i cant see why.... |
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| 12:54.37 | ratrace | pitch: it's needed for RPC which is needed for NFS |
| 12:54.51 | pitch | ....what? |
| 12:55.14 | pitch | sorry for beeing such a pleb. |
| 12:55.22 | gungomanj | debian is for n00bs l0l install arch |
| 12:55.26 | Maizum__ | hi all |
| 12:55.37 | ratrace | pitch: https://web.mit.edu/rhel-doc/5/RHEL-5-manual/Deployment_Guide-en-US/s2-nfs-methodology-portmap.html |
| 12:55.54 | ratrace | gungomanj: isn't arch deprecated by ubuntu? |
| 12:56.05 | pitch | lol |
| 12:56.07 | pitch | yup |
| 12:57.07 | gungomanj | at least their founder didnt commit suicide |
| 12:57.19 | pitch | who did? |
| 12:57.30 | ratrace | Ian Murdock. |
| 12:57.47 | ratrace | THE "ian" in debIAN |
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| 12:58.10 | bguebert | give Mark some time |
| 12:58.13 | annadane | !ops gungomanj being an obvious troll |
| 12:58.13 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: annadane complains about a problem (see above) |
| 12:58.34 | gungomanj | follow ur founder LOL |
| 12:58.43 | teclo- | The cause of death of Ian Murdock is unknown |
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| 12:59.31 | BazookaToof | annadane: same jackass got banned from #archlinux yesterday. no surprise he's trolling here too |
| 12:59.31 | gungomanj | he committed suicide because the cops that fucked him did not call him after triggering his BPD abandonment |
| 12:59.43 | gungomanj | damn you really remember that you nolifer |
| 12:59.56 | greycat | what the hell did I walk into today |
| 12:59.58 | gungomanj | hahaha |
| 13:00.02 | annadane | do yourself a favor and remove yourself from this planet, it's too nice for people like you |
| 13:00.05 | ratrace | ducks for greycat's BannuHammeru swing |
| 13:00.11 | gungomanj | annadane, flush urself fam |
| 13:00.16 | dvs | greycat, one heck of a troll |
| 13:00.19 | annadane | i'm not the only person who can tell people to kill themselves |
| 13:00.26 | annadane | or, wait, you're not |
| 13:00.26 | teclo- | cause of death unknown |
| 13:00.27 | *** part/#debian gungomanj (~jimmy@88.236.70.4) |
| 13:00.30 | annadane | i can't grammar |
| 13:00.33 | pitch | i always ask myself why trolls these days are just so rude |
| 13:00.43 | greycat | OK, let's all stop with the death threats and related hostility. |
| 13:00.44 | BazookaToof | pitch: no skill |
| 13:00.47 | pitch | they dont accomplish the fine art of trolling |
| 13:00.54 | ratrace | pitch: because their archlinux installations keep breaking and they're frustrated. |
| 13:00.55 | pitch | its just beeing rude |
| 13:01.24 | pitch | i am a follower of eris myself. but a good troll is never exposed... |
| 13:01.33 | ratrace | indeed, and they come in fives ;) |
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| 13:01.42 | pitch | mostly. |
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| 13:01.59 | ratrace | <-- hidden erisian obvs. all hail principia, etc... |
| 13:03.53 | pitch | back to topic: i was looking for a simple approach of getting a network share from linux to include in win10. i thought nfs would be nice, but thats from beeing used to just write a line in /etc/exports and be done. |
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| 13:04.05 | ratrace | pitch: why not samba |
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| 13:04.18 | greycat | If it's a windows client, samba is the go-to choice. |
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| 13:04.35 | pitch | i guess so. |
| 13:04.54 | pitch | i just thought maybe nfs with kernel module would be way more performant |
| 13:05.08 | pitch | ich got <100$ hardware |
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| 13:05.25 | pitch | lol potato exposal |
| 13:05.26 | greycat | Windows can't do NFS without add-ons. |
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| 13:05.44 | pitch | its has NFS-client included. but only V3 |
| 13:05.54 | greycat | oh, that's news to me |
| 13:06.58 | pitch | it was for me too. thats why i was so excited. setup my nfs. checked for funtion with my laptop -> nice. trying with windows: nothing. |
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| 13:07.10 | pitch | then i found out that its v3 only. |
| 13:08.03 | *** join/#debian debsan (~debsan@unaffiliated/debsan) |
| 13:08.08 | pitch | and i got no clue why i need portmap for v3, but not for v4... |
| 13:08.15 | pitch | i am honestly startled |
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| 13:10.23 | ratrace | pitch: did you read that link I posted you? about why portmap is needed for rpc which is needed for nfs? |
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| 13:13.21 | pitch | yeah i just finised... so v<4 didnt implement portmapping by itself.... |
| 13:13.29 | pitch | well that very unix... |
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| 13:18.40 | pitch | i am just a casual linux user for 20+ years, which makes me an advanced computer user i guess, but still... never really haggled with multiOS systems/networks. now i was asked to make this bunch of Win10pro machines backup themselfs to another location. |
| 13:19.46 | pitch | its just frustrating. |
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| 13:23.56 | BadPractice | hi. i am looking for the kernel module ec_sys . Is it available on debian? Do i have to comple my own kernel for it? |
| 13:24.20 | ratrace | pitch: what I'd do, if possible, is install them into VMs. there's a nifty video by Linus Tech Tips, the guy replaced all his computres at home withh a single beefy server running VMs with dedicated CPUs and GPUs, exposed to extra thin clients via firewire-or-whatwasit + usb cables for peripherals. |
| 13:24.44 | ratrace | I'll be doing the same but the host will be linux of course. |
| 13:25.25 | greycat | judd file ec_sys* |
| 13:25.29 | judd | Search for ec_sys* in buster/amd64: libitpp-dev: usr/include/itpp/comm/rec_syst_conv_code.h; golang-go4-dev: usr/share/gocode/src/go4.org/osutil/exec_sysctl.go |
| 13:25.43 | greycat | It does not appear to exist, at least under that name. Perhaps you could tell us what it *is*. |
| 13:27.01 | pitch | ratrace: thats a nice thing for a close quarter situation. this is a private household with a carpentry and a small office combined. |
| 13:27.46 | Maizum__ | ncdu |
| 13:27.48 | pitch | so i would need to run 200+ meters of firewire/usb-c/fiber/whatever |
| 13:27.52 | Maizum__ | ops |
| 13:27.57 | BadPractice | greycat, it is some interface to talk with an embedded controller of my thinkpad (i think). I want to control my red dot as in https://github.com/alex01t/thinkpad-red-dot-led |
| 13:28.16 | ratrace | pitch: sure. just tossing ideas out there ;) virtualized windows = easiest thing to maintain |
| 13:28.23 | pitch | true |
| 13:28.43 | greycat | BadPractice: not very good instructions, apparently... |
| 13:28.56 | greycat | OK, google it is! |
| 13:29.11 | pitch | i would love to have a zfs-pool fed virtualisation for myself and my girlfriend at home. atm its just the hardware lacking. |
| 13:29.42 | pitch | because i love my computer games. but windows is just a PAIN |
| 13:29.43 | greycat | Google gives me https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/acpi/ec_sys.c but I don't know whether that's something you can build via DKMS, or.... |
| 13:30.50 | pitch | ratrace: if you are planning on building this yourself: beware. the more recent nvidia drivers detect PCI-passthrough and send the card into 2D-only |
| 13:31.15 | pitch | throwing error 3xx. |
| 13:31.28 | ratrace | pitch: I know. fixed with cpuid haxx |
| 13:31.35 | pitch | uuuuuh |
| 13:31.39 | pitch | clever |
| 13:31.46 | pitch | never thought about that. |
| 13:32.17 | ratrace | that alone has put nvidia on my sh!t list. I'll be switching to all all AMD+ATI as soon as finances allow. |
| 13:32.35 | ratrace | all *out |
| 13:32.51 | pitch | my solution: feeding my gaming machine with network boot. normally it boots into a headless linux to crunch em numbers. if powered by the buttons it boots windows10 to game. |
| 13:32.55 | ksk | BadPractice: ubuntu seems to ship that module via linux-modules - as far as I can tell debian does not. |
| 13:32.56 | pitch | <3 efi |
| 13:33.43 | Maizum__ | ops/HILIGHT nick |
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| 13:34.00 | pitch | okay. damn. i just stumbled into the next problem. no credential support for nfs. |
| 13:34.07 | pitch | in win10 |
| 13:34.16 | ratrace | pitch: smb ftw :) |
| 13:34.17 | pitch | ill just deinstall nfs and go smb |
| 13:34.28 | pitch | yeah.... |
| 13:34.31 | pitch | be quite |
| 13:34.50 | ksk | either that, or utilize ssh/rsync (Some tools running on windows do support that..) |
| 13:34.51 | pitch | i want my kernel-suppport network sharing.... |
| 13:35.02 | pitch | ksk: no more tools |
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| 13:35.11 | ksk | pitch: apt-get install * |
| 13:35.26 | pitch | tools are just a synonym for: will break windows contantly. |
| 13:35.36 | f8e4 | where to get a stable/fresh version of nginx for debian? |
| 13:35.37 | ratrace | sshfs is very slowfs |
| 13:35.48 | ratrace | f8e4: from their official repos for debian. |
| 13:35.59 | f8e4 | lol for version from 2018? |
| 13:36.01 | f8e4 | https://nginx.org/en/download.html |
| 13:36.03 | ratrace | f8e4: http://nginx.org/en/linux_packages.html#Debian |
| 13:36.09 | f8e4 | latest is CHANGES-1.14 nginx-1.14.2 |
| 13:36.13 | BadPractice | greycat, ksk so seems like my best bet ist to compile that module myself. thanks for your help |
| 13:36.15 | greycat | !stable |
| 13:36.16 | dpkg | [stable] The status of a Debian release when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is Buster (10.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me about <security backports>). https://wiki.debian.org/DebianStable |
| 13:36.22 | greycat | !buster freeze |
| 13:36.22 | dpkg | Buster started the freeze process on 2019-01-12 see https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2018/04/msg00006.html or ask me about <freeze>, <slushy>. |
| 13:36.58 | ratrace | f8e4: do you need any specific functionality in newer versions or a bug fix that's not available in debian's standard package? |
| 13:37.07 | ksk | f8e4: if the nginx package in debian does not fit your needs, check the "repos for debian from nginx.org" - they are of good quality. |
| 13:37.16 | f8e4 | ratrace scared only: latest == most secure often |
| 13:37.33 | pitch | true but not most stable. |
| 13:37.36 | f8e4 | do i break (again) sth if i install the http://nginx.org/en/linux_packages.html#Debian |
| 13:37.36 | ratrace | f8e4: also latest == new (security) bugs often |
| 13:37.43 | pitch | what the purpose of debian is |
| 13:37.44 | Maizum__ | , /msg alis LIST #freenode* -min 10 |
| 13:37.51 | ksk | f8e4: The Debian team will take care of handling everything security related. It works well most of times.. |
| 13:37.52 | ratrace | Maizum__: pls stop that crap |
| 13:38.06 | Maizum__ | sorry |
| 13:38.24 | ratrace | f8e4: security bugs are backported to debian's nginx. unless you know there's a specific functionality or bug fixed upstream and not backported, I'd recommend stay with debian standard packages. |
| 13:38.33 | annadane | speaking of security and the discussion from earlier, salt did get patched |
| 13:38.36 | *** join/#debian Guest94791 (~Zzzzzzzzz@84-106-62-193.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 13:38.41 | abrotman | dpkg: tracker of doom |
| 13:38.41 | dpkg | The Tracker of Doom is a vulnerability database maintained by the Debian security team, viewable at http://security-tracker.debian.org/ . Ask me about <cve lookup CVE-yyyy-nnnn> to get Debian-specific information on a CVE number. See also http://www.debian.org/security/crossreferences or ask me about <debsecan> http://www.enyo.de/fw/software/debsecan/ |
| 13:38.55 | joepublic | speaking of security, the current mitigation for saltstack problems is apparently to unplug the machines and set them on fire, https://saltexploit.com/ |
| 13:38.55 | ratrace | annadane: and exposed my worst nightmare about running salt on publicly accessible servers |
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| 13:39.59 | pitch | f8e4: if you want recent features go for rolling release distros, like arch (?) or voidlinux. they are fine most of the time, but eentually they will break your whole system with one update. |
| 13:40.36 | ratrace | the bestest rolling release is of course gentoo. there will be no discussion or challenging of this statement. thank you, have a nice day. |
| 13:40.46 | pitch | on the other hand distros like debian often carry years old packages/versions but more or less guarantee you that they wont break anything while updating |
| 13:41.19 | annadane | or run a rolling release... in a VM, where you can have your cake and eat it too (mostly) |
| 13:41.34 | ratrace | pitch: true that, but they'll also carry bugs for years </devils-advocate> in my case, I can't use HTTP2 because it's broken in the current version of nginx. |
| 13:41.38 | joepublic | well, it's a little harder to eat, because it's really only virtual cake |
| 13:41.41 | pitch | ratrace: is gentoot rolling release? it just includes an alias for git pull FOO && make basically |
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| 13:42.27 | ratrace | pitch: it's rolling release yes, but rolling release != what you said. gentoo is way more tested than that, and has a period of stabilization. pop into #gentoo if you're instrested ;) |
| 13:42.47 | DavePage | Any suggestions on how I can raise an issue with the Debian kernel team? Basically our VM hosts are broken in Debian 9 because of https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=952660 and we'd quite like them to fix the regression introduced by the latest point release. |
| 13:42.48 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/952660 in src:linux (open, fixed-upstream, patch, upstream): «src:linux: macvlan multicast/broadcast regression in stretch»; severity: important; opened: 2020-02-26; last modified: 2020-04-22. |
| 13:42.56 | ratrace | arch maybe aliased "pacman upgrade" to git pull.... that's also why every reboot is a russian roulette |
| 13:43.27 | annadane | arch certainly does have the most vocal fanbase |
| 13:43.35 | sudomake | hello everyone, it takes a dozen or more trials until I can login to my computer after resuming from stand by |
| 13:43.49 | ratrace | !bts |
| 13:43.50 | dpkg | Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, http://bugs.debian.org/ or to go directly to the bug page for a particular package/bug, try http://bugs.debian.org/packagename or http://bugs.debian.org/bugnumber . aptitude install reportbug, and check out <querybts> too. Users of unstable and testing are required to check the BTS. See also <apt-listbugs>, <reportbug>. http://wiki.debian.org/HowtoUseBTS |
| 13:43.52 | ratrace | DavePage: ^^^^ |
| 13:44.13 | DavePage | ratrace: Yes, there is a bug already, as I linked |
| 13:44.26 | ratrace | DavePage: so that's how you raise the issue with the devs. post there, ask there. |
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| 13:44.40 | DavePage | OK, so nothing you can do if the bug is ignored |
| 13:44.43 | DavePage | ? |
| 13:44.55 | ratrace | DavePage: you can patch it yourself and build the kernel yourself |
| 13:45.05 | DavePage | ratrace: Done that |
| 13:45.14 | ratrace | I mean if oyu know the patchset you can download and apply, I'm not implying you design and write code |
| 13:45.16 | *** join/#debian mirrorbird (~psutcliff@2a00:801:301:91d2:c0e3:6593:98f1:3e2c) |
| 13:45.17 | sudomake | there is another guy/girl who has the same problem and also using debian 10.3. |
| 13:45.28 | sudomake | we just both reported it on linux channel |
| 13:45.38 | ratrace | DavePage: then I think you did pretty much all you could until it's fixed in Debian |
| 13:45.51 | sudomake | when I heard that he had the same problem I came to this channel |
| 13:45.58 | ratrace | sudomake: can you elaborate? what do you mean trials? what error do you get? |
| 13:46.03 | DavePage | ratrace: Which is my concern, if it's not fixed in Debian next time there's a security release then updating will reintroduce the problem :/ |
| 13:46.13 | cbilt | sudomake, so, you forgot your password? |
| 13:46.14 | pitch | DavePage: you can only fix it yourself and start a PR |
| 13:46.20 | ratrace | DavePage: that's why you use the debsrc kernel and rebuild on each update with your patch |
| 13:46.48 | sudomake | ratrace, login fails when I want to resume session from stand-by (sleep mode with the lid put down) |
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| 13:46.54 | ratrace | actually for the kernel I think there's now a different method, than using the srcdeb, annadane do you remember the factoid perhaps? |
| 13:47.02 | mirrorbird | i also have the problem with login |
| 13:47.03 | ratrace | sudomake: fails how? invalid password? |
| 13:47.05 | mirrorbird | i try to login 20 times |
| 13:47.11 | mirrorbird | i can't remember my password |
| 13:47.26 | ratrace | so... fix your memory? :) |
| 13:47.30 | sudomake | ratrace, the pw is rejected, "Sorry, that didnt work. Please try again" |
| 13:47.35 | sudomake | yes |
| 13:47.45 | cbilt | sudomake, you should contact the people at GNOME |
| 13:47.49 | cbilt | it's not really debian-specific |
| 13:47.59 | cbilt | assuming you use GNOME |
| 13:48.00 | ratrace | sudomake: what if you type it slowly? say one key stroke per second? |
| 13:48.03 | annadane | ratrace, sorry, method for what? |
| 13:48.13 | annadane | hmm |
| 13:48.20 | sudomake | ratrace, I can try that. but it is not about wrong typing, that much is certain |
| 13:48.23 | ratrace | annadane: building (and custom patching) the kernel on debian |
| 13:48.36 | mirrorbird | sudomake, how long is your password? |
| 13:48.37 | annadane | well i think debian has a guide for it, i'll see if i can find it |
| 13:48.55 | ratrace | sudomake: i'm hinting at some class of bugs where keyboard strokes are not registered fast enough |
| 13:48.56 | *** join/#debian Ruint (Ruint@unaffiliated/ruint) |
| 13:49.05 | annadane | there's https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.kernel-compilation.html for instance |
| 13:49.34 | annadane | 8.10.6 also details how to apply a patch |
| 13:49.34 | sudomake | ratrace, I got you, but made no difference |
| 13:49.59 | sudomake | and it began to happen since yesterday |
| 13:50.08 | sudomake | I dont know whether that is the same with mirrorbird, too |
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| 13:51.39 | ratrace | annadane: thanks I think that's the one |
| 13:51.52 | sudomake | this is horrible, it takes you at half an hour trying to login |
| 13:51.59 | ratrace | sudomake: is that gnome? |
| 13:52.05 | annadane | oh i may also be thinking of the |
| 13:52.05 | sudomake | ratrace, yes |
| 13:52.07 | annadane | !kernel handbook |
| 13:52.07 | dpkg | The Debian Linux Kernel Handbook http://kernel-handbook.debian.net/ - packaged as debian-kernel-handbook since Debian 7 "Wheezy" - serves as a single access point to all kernel-related documentation. See chapter 4.2 to rebuild official Debian kernel packages, see chapter 4.5 to build a custom kernel from Debian kernel source. |
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| 13:52.36 | annadane | which doesn't exist, lovely |
| 13:53.21 | ratrace | I found this but I don't know how up to date it is: https://kernel-team.pages.debian.net/kernel-handbook/ch-common-tasks.html#s-common-official |
| 13:54.04 | annadane | debian needs, like, more centralized things |
| 13:54.06 | annadane | anyway |
| 13:54.13 | f8e4 | ok will install nginx-full default |
| 13:56.00 | f8e4 | yet reading: https://nginx.org/en/CHANGES-1.18 i wonder who is putting all those backports in if at all, lots work |
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| 13:56.53 | ratrace | f8e4: only security or major bugs are backported in debian |
| 13:57.01 | f8e4 | eg *) Bugfix: a segmentation fault might occur on start or during |
| 13:57.08 | *** join/#debian sudomake (~sudomake@unaffiliated/sudomake) |
| 13:57.10 | f8e4 | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:57.13 | dob1 | what does it means on htop when virt is in red? |
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| 13:59.19 | ratrace | f8e4: yeah that socket leak is preventing me from using http2 with standard debian packages |
| 13:59.32 | sudomake | is there anyone to help with my problem? |
| 14:00.15 | f8e4 | mmh will use http://nginx.org/en/linux_packages.html#Debian stable |
| 14:01.03 | f8e4 | ratrace if i connect to remote vps1 via ssh, can vps1 got malicious -> do stuff to the connecting user ? |
| 14:01.25 | ratrace | f8e4: yes if there's a vuln in ssh client |
| 14:02.40 | f8e4 | annadane yeah .. |
| 14:02.54 | sudomake | I cant login to my computer trying it for almost an hour and noone cares |
| 14:03.20 | *** join/#debian jla20 (~john@2607:f2c0:952f:e00::425) |
| 14:03.43 | sudomake | debian 10.3. login fails despite correct password |
| 14:04.02 | sudomake | there was a second person here who had the same problem |
| 14:04.05 | *** join/#debian ml| (~ml|@unaffiliated/ml/x-3958674) |
| 14:04.18 | sudomake | been happening within the last one day |
| 14:04.22 | greycat | What kind of login? Console tty? lightdm? ssh? Is your account defined locally in /etc/passwd, or in a network DB? |
| 14:04.38 | f8e4 | sudomake maybe try resetting it: https://askubuntu.com/questions/92556/how-do-i-boot-into-a-root-shell |
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| 14:04.43 | greycat | What did you change before the problem started? |
| 14:04.49 | sudomake | greycat, lightdm, I guess, yes, locally |
| 14:04.55 | *** join/#debian zodd (~Zzzzzzzzz@84-106-62-193.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 14:05.14 | sudomake | f8e4, it is not about the password itself, I had no problem with it until yesterday |
| 14:05.14 | greycat | What is the exact symptom of "login fails"? Is there an error message? What does it say? |
| 14:05.27 | greycat | What did you change yesterday? |
| 14:05.52 | sudomake | greycat,"Sorry, that didnt work. Please try again" |
| 14:05.53 | sudomake | nothin |
| 14:06.26 | greycat | I just googled "lightdm sorry that didn't work", and the first result is for Ubuntu 18.04 |
| 14:06.47 | sudomake | so= |
| 14:06.48 | sudomake | so? |
| 14:06.53 | greycat | Are you on Ubuntu? |
| 14:06.56 | sudomake | no |
| 14:06.57 | sudomake | buster |
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| 14:07.29 | greycat | Do any of the things in https://askubuntu.com/questions/1059458/ubuntu-18-04-on-login-loop-even-with-correct-password apply to you? |
| 14:08.16 | sudomake | greycat, sorry it is gdm3 |
| 14:08.22 | greycat | or, https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=209286 |
| 14:09.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1288] by debhelper |
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| 14:09.36 | greycat | or, https://askubuntu.com/questions/1147735/i-am-not-able-to-login-getting-sorry-that-didnt-work-please-try-again-error |
| 14:09.45 | sudomake | greycat, it is not like a login loop. I remember the login loop from ubuntu, where one is directed to desktop but the screen jumps back to login window |
| 14:10.16 | greycat | stops reading google results and closes the tab and goes back to what he was doing before |
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| 14:11.15 | sudomake | I dont care about google. If you want to help, just help |
| 14:11.21 | sudomake | if not, fine |
| 14:11.22 | greycat | *plonk* |
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| 14:11.29 | sudomake | man |
| 14:11.35 | greycat | THIS is why nobody helped you. You are unhelpable. |
| 14:11.47 | sudomake | I thought you resumed your work |
| 14:11.55 | sudomake | (wish you do) |
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| 14:14.06 | ratrace | greycat: indeed. |
| 14:14.16 | sudomake | this was a reaction to someone for whom it was due (I am a long-time user of this channel) |
| 14:14.32 | jla20 | which is better for desktop raid 5 or raid 10? |
| 14:14.34 | sudomake | everyone else can expect a different conversation |
| 14:15.34 | jla20 | I include raid 6 in the raid 5 group |
| 14:15.41 | kline | zfs pools |
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| 14:15.47 | kline | e z |
| 14:15.50 | ratrace | jla20: depends on use case that has nothing to do with "desktop", and mostly has somethign to do with desired fault tolerance |
| 14:15.54 | sudomake | now there is apparently a debian problem with login. |
| 14:16.03 | sudomake | I am not the only one having it |
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| 14:17.52 | jla20 | ratrace, OK, i was under the impression that rain might improve performance + add fault tolerance |
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| 14:18.55 | ratrace | jla20: rain? |
| 14:19.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1298] by debhelper |
| 14:19.16 | sudomake | somebody tell me I am not faced with a herd behaviour |
| 14:19.33 | jla20 | Its raining inside my skull. for rain read raid!! |
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| 14:19.41 | ratrace | jla20: well it does. you were asking between raid5 and raid10, not about raid vs no-raid |
| 14:20.13 | ratrace | I love the smell of XY quetions in the morning. |
| 14:20.22 | *** join/#debian conta (~Thunderbi@82.102.24.187) |
| 14:20.40 | jla20 | ratrace, how about xy & z |
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| 14:21.05 | BazookaToof | sudomake: can you login on a different tty? |
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| 14:21.57 | sudomake | BazookaToof, no, because tty has US keyboard, where I cant type my pw |
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| 14:22.42 | jla20 | let me redo my ?. which provides the greatest benefit no raid, raid 5/6, raid 10? I have been give 4 2TB drives! |
| 14:23.04 | BazookaToof | boot to single user or chroot with a live usb and change your password to something simple |
| 14:23.14 | greycat | How are you measuring "benefit"? |
| 14:23.41 | sudomake | BazookaToof, do you mean this change to solve the actual problem, or to be able to login to tty? |
| 14:23.55 | jla20 | performance & reliability |
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| 14:24.42 | greycat | The choice between "no RAID, if a single disk fails, I lose, but I get to use all 8 TB of storage" and "RAID 5, if a single disk fails I can recover, but I only get to use 6 TB of storage" is not one we can make for you. And I don't know enough about those other choices to say anything. |
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| 14:24.51 | ratrace | jla20: raid10 is better then. raid5 is any-one-disk may fail. raid10 is two-may-fail if they're in different mirror groups |
| 14:24.57 | greycat | (Isn't RAID 6 using *two* redundant disks? That seems excessive for 4 disks.) |
| 14:25.03 | jla20 | Performance then reliability. most drives these days will probrbaly outlast me. |
| 14:25.15 | BazookaToof | the latter but if it fixes the problem entirely then so be it |
| 14:25.23 | ratrace | greycat: raid6 is double parity |
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| 14:25.26 | ratrace | raid5 is single parity |
| 14:25.30 | greycat | If you care about performance and do NOT care about reliability, then RAID 5 is out. |
| 14:25.32 | Moshe` | some one know how i can install this package in debian? Net::Address::IP::Local |
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| 14:25.47 | ratrace | greycat: raid5 is out even for reliability. only 1 disk may fail |
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| 14:25.54 | greycat | ratrace: uh... |
| 14:26.03 | ratrace | raid10 two may fail, if in different mirror groups |
| 14:27.29 | greycat | I have a hard time understanding people who don't care about their data, only how fast it can be read for the brief time that it survives. |
| 14:27.45 | DavePage | Also depends on whether you're using spinning rust or SSD - a RAID10 works better with TRIM than RAID5/6 |
| 14:27.46 | greycat | Must be a millennial thing. |
| 14:28.12 | sudomake | BazookaToof, I turned the computer off. will try a few things including your suggestion |
| 14:28.34 | greycat | Or maybe some Buddhist thing. All data are ephemeral. When the data is gone, it is gone, and I will simply move to a new state, change my name, and start all over. |
| 14:29.02 | DavePage | greycat: For a file server, you're right. For a data processing server, you may care more about throughput than redundancy. |
| 14:29.18 | ratrace | true, depends on use case. |
| 14:29.37 | ratrace | the use case here is "desktop" if i'm not mistaken, and with 4 drives, I'd go for raid10. |
| 14:30.02 | DavePage | (a RAID-1 SSD mirror as a writeback cache on top of RAID 5/6 spinning rust is a reasonable all-round compromise IME) |
| 14:30.30 | ratrace | eewwww no |
| 14:30.35 | greycat | who the hell puts 8 TB across 4 drives in a desktop box |
| 14:30.50 | jla20 | ratrace, yes, desktop, and 4 spinning rust. |
| 14:30.55 | ratrace | someone with alotta steam games they don't wanna redownload? :) |
| 14:31.08 | DavePage | Somebody with an impressive pr0n collection? |
| 14:31.27 | greycat | but we *just* got through learning that they don't care about data longevity in any way, so they *will* be re-downloading all those games ... |
| 14:31.42 | rozie | DavePage: you don't need performance for that one |
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| 14:31.46 | ratrace | that's the setup I have now, but it's two striped mirror zfs vdevs, which is similar to raid10 |
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| 14:32.28 | DavePage | I like the idea of ZFS, but I CBA messing around with the CDDL drama |
| 14:32.46 | rozie | jla20: ragarding your question: it depends. there's no silver bullet |
| 14:32.48 | ratrace | greycat: seems to me they want both performance and reliability, with performance being a bit more important. thus, I'm assuming a 4-wide raid0 is out of the question :) |
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| 14:33.11 | ratrace | DavePage: what CDDL drama do you think you'd be messing with, as a user and not developer of zfs? |
| 14:33.21 | rozie | but as you asked about performance & reliability, not mentioning space, raid10 is obvious solution |
| 14:33.38 | sudomake | BazookaToof, as I suspected, when I restarted computer after shutdown, I was able to login immediately. which makes me think of a problem with stand-by mode, where I also had a VM on. I also would like to add that I had often freezes with this VM lately (CPU perf. at 100%), which did and did not happen at the same time with the login problem. even though the VM problem may not be directly related, the login problem seems related to the |
| 14:33.38 | sudomake | preceding stand-by mode. |
| 14:33.48 | greycat | that uses 2 out of the 4 disks for redundancy? |
| 14:34.08 | jla20 | greycat, I help shutdown a small business, they had installed a server about a year before. The owner gave me the HW, but the server had been physically damaged. |
| 14:34.21 | ratrace | greycat: it's mirrored raid0, or striped raid1, depending on how you set it up |
| 14:34.31 | greycat | so, "yes"? |
| 14:34.34 | sudomake | in order to test it I will shutdown again |
| 14:34.44 | rozie | greycat: performance & reliability! |
| 14:35.00 | greycat | Yes, I suppose that does answer the question. |
| 14:35.02 | ratrace | greycat: I wouldn't phrase it like THAT, but let's say yes |
| 14:36.10 | rozie | I'd also consider raid1 with one hot spare and one stock drive |
| 14:37.21 | ratrace | what for. unused disk is a waste of space |
| 14:37.24 | BazookaToof | sudomake: change your password to use only keys shared with US keyboard layout. this reminds me of something that caused problems for me when using JIS keyboards a few years ago |
| 14:39.25 | greycat | So, when sudomake said they didn't change ANYTHING yesterday, that was a complete fabrication, because they changed their password? |
| 14:40.15 | ratrace | the plot thickens! |
| 14:40.27 | BazookaToof | well there was also some bit about it only breaking after a suspend or something so.. |
| 14:40.37 | sudomake | yes, the second time login works, too |
| 14:40.43 | greycat | Sorry, I have a bad habit of asking passive-aggressive rhetorical questions. We already knew that they changed something, because the problem "started yesterday". |
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| 14:41.03 | greycat | They just wouldn't TELL US what they changed. |
| 14:41.46 | sudomake | BazookaToof, but this is sure not a solution, is it? |
| 14:41.49 | pitch | sudomake: is the bahaviour reproducible on tty? |
| 14:42.06 | *** part/#debian DavePage (~davepage@78.40.148.180) |
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| 14:42.13 | ratrace | problems after standby immediately scream GPU for me, from experience. and gnome being a POS that also requires HW acceleration, my suspicion would be key strokes / input being messed up due to that. it happened before. |
| 14:42.14 | sudomake | if the problem were related to us keys, I should be having problems with login after shutdown-restart |
| 14:42.18 | sudomake | if the problem were related to us keys, I should be having problems with login after shutdown-restart |
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| 14:42.46 | jla20 | ratrace, greycat, rozie thanks for the input, looks like raid10. |
| 14:42.57 | BazookaToof | did you bother to even try it? jfc |
| 14:43.11 | *** part/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.121.224) |
| 14:43.19 | greycat | See "unhelpable". |
| 14:43.28 | BazookaToof | starting to see it |
| 14:43.56 | sudomake | greycat, I wish you were eager to listen and understand people as much as you were to be all that is undesirable |
| 14:44.10 | sudomake | hard to be you |
| 14:44.18 | sudomake | anyway |
| 14:44.52 | sudomake | you might have made an excellent social media troll for some regimes |
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| 14:45.06 | ratrace | sudomake: so there's two questions the volunteers spending their time to support you posed, that you still have to answer. |
| 14:45.22 | sudomake | ratrace |
| 14:45.24 | sudomake | gladly |
| 14:45.31 | sudomake | that is all I wish for being here |
| 14:47.19 | jla20 | sudomake, I must have missed something! what did you change prior to the failure |
| 14:47.49 | sudomake | jla20, I didnt change anything |
| 14:48.05 | sudomake | that is the story made up by others with no clear aim to be here |
| 14:48.21 | ratrace | sudomake: so there's two questions the volunteers spending their time to support you posed, that you still have to answer. |
| 14:48.25 | sudomake | ratrace, two questions? I must have missed among the noise |
| 14:48.31 | sudomake | I was looking for your questions |
| 14:48.32 | ratrace | 1) is the problem reproducible in tty, 2) did you try different keymap |
| 14:49.03 | sudomake | ok, I will change the password to US keys, and try it on tty |
| 14:49.15 | ratrace | your assumption about keymap does not hold. post-standby corruption in the code can cause any number of things that aren't visible after shutdown-restart |
| 14:49.30 | jla20 | sudomake, things don't just happen! something must have changed or you have a hardware failure! |
| 14:50.15 | sudomake | jla20, I swear I had no problem the day before. I put the computer to sleep, and went to sleep myself. and the next morning this happened |
| 14:50.32 | ratrace | my bet is still with the gpu, but that's just me |
| 14:50.54 | ratrace | is that nvidia perchance? that tends to have issues with standby |
| 14:52.39 | sudomake | no, I dont have nvidia |
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| 14:53.06 | jla20 | sudomake, that sounds like a HW problem. I suggest you do a full shutdown and restart. power off, disconnect from PS, reconnect, restart |
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| 14:54.32 | jla20 | sudomake, is your PS filtered, you u use a battery BU. Did you BU before shutdown/sleep |
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| 14:55.42 | jla20 | sudomake, correction - did you backup the system before shutdown/sleep |
| 14:55.57 | sudomake | jla20, I dont even know what battery BU is |
| 14:56.25 | sudomake | jla20, no, I did not |
| 14:58.44 | jla20 | sudomake, I use APC Backup UPS's for my systems/ network equipment ... they filter the Power supply and provide power to the system, should the main s go out |
| 14:59.42 | pileofstraw | why would the "monit" package be in stretch, buster-backports and bullseye? Did it just skip a buster release? |
| 15:00.01 | sudomake | ratrace |
| 15:00.05 | sudomake | I changed the pw |
| 15:00.10 | sudomake | and was able to login to tty |
| 15:00.19 | sudomake | the pw with US chars |
| 15:00.29 | greycat | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/monit |
| 15:00.49 | greycat | [2019-06-28] monit REMOVED from testing (Debian testing watch) |
| 15:00.56 | ratrace | sudomake: after standby? |
| 15:01.20 | sudomake | ratrace, no, I just tried it in the current session, I will test it after stand-by now |
| 15:01.27 | *** join/#debian dvs (~hibbard@cwv.teksavvy.com) |
| 15:01.34 | ratrace | sudomake: but that's useless.. you have to replicate the stand-by situation problem..... |
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| 15:01.44 | *** part/#debian Moshe` (~Moshe@dsl217-132-32-113.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 15:01.44 | sudomake | ratrace, right, sure |
| 15:02.30 | sudomake | I am replicating the exact setting when it last happened |
| 15:03.01 | ratrace | pileofstraw: see bug #930637 |
| 15:03.02 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/930637 in release.debian.org (closed, moreinfo, wontfix, confirmed): «unblock: monit/1:5.25.2-3+deb10u1»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-06-17; last modified: 2019-08-10. |
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| 15:06.22 | ratrace | lol some entitled rusers in that thread |
| 15:06.26 | pileofstraw | I was just reading that, lol |
| 15:06.27 | pileofstraw | hilarious. |
| 15:07.02 | pileofstraw | well that's a pain. before I get it from backports, can anyone suggest a package that will let me monitor a directory and send a slack message when it exceeds a size threshold |
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| 15:09.31 | ratrace | pileofstraw: sure nagios could do somethign liek that, but it sounds rather very specific, so I'm guessing you can use any monitoring service that allows you to whip up a quick custom plugin. I use munin and this would be dead easy with munin |
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| 15:10.01 | ratrace | I mean nagios is a huge pile of code that I'd really want to stay away from. |
| 15:10.41 | pileofstraw | we run a massive nagios instance and since this is super temporary I'd rather not graft my testing onto it. |
| 15:10.46 | pileofstraw | lemme check out munin |
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| 15:11.14 | ratrace | pileofstraw: in which case I'd just whip up a cron check |
| 15:13.56 | jla20 | A long time ago I used to use "sbackup" as my desktop backup program. Does anybody know of a replacement |
| 15:14.39 | ratrace | pileofstraw: SIZE=$(du -sb /path/to/dir | cut -f1); if [ $SIZE -ge $THRESHOLD ]; then curl ...slack_api_call_here ; fi # hardly calls for installing whole monitoring suites just for this, if you're using nagios already |
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| 15:17.13 | pileofstraw | That is excellent, thanks! |
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| 15:20.58 | greycat | Avoid using all-caps variable names, because they may conflict with environment variables and internal shell variables. Quotes are important. |
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| 15:24.54 | sudomake | ratrace, I replicated the session, and went into stand-by. after that I could login with the new password |
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| 15:28.47 | BazookaToof | told ya |
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| 15:31.35 | sudomake | BazookaToof, but it cant be lying in the password characters, obviously. something to do with stand-by? since after shutdown-restart the former password was accepted, too. |
| 15:32.36 | BazookaToof | dunno. don't care. just know it fixed my problems with JIS keyboards |
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| 15:33.10 | DammitJim | is there a way to do controlled patches? |
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| 15:33.41 | DammitJim | in the past, we have always just run: apt-get update && apt-get -y upgrade && apt-get -y dist-upgrade && apt-get -y autoremove |
| 15:34.03 | DammitJim | but from what I'm gathering, that's not very safe because you don't know what you are installing beforehand.. |
| 15:34.22 | DammitJim | do any of you use special mechanisms to know what you are updating? |
| 15:34.28 | dvs | ,v unattended-upgrades |
| 15:34.29 | judd | Package: unattended-upgrades on amd64 -- jessie: 0.83.3.2+deb8u1; jessie-security: 0.83.3.2+deb8u1; stretch: 0.93.1+nmu1; buster: 1.11.2; bullseye: 2.3; sid: 2.3 |
| 15:34.32 | DammitJim | in advance? and do testing and stuff? |
| 15:34.57 | DammitJim | you know, go through a full controlled process |
| 15:35.06 | sudomake | I keep getting disconnected due to another current problem. sorry if I missed any reply in the last minute or two |
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| 15:41.45 | sudomake | I just changed my pw back to the former one, and didnt have login problem after stand-by. perhaps it is not a problem that happens every time. ratrace mentioned above some kind of corruption. what do you think the reason can be? |
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| 15:42.38 | sudomake | or perhaps it is a problem that happens after frequent stand-bys. maybe I should shutdown regularly. is that kind of thing familiar? |
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| 15:43.39 | ksk | If it was there would be a bugreport, and a fix for it available :) |
| 15:44.04 | pitch | sudomake: i got runtimes (depending on kernel updates) ranging from 1-3 months |
| 15:44.12 | pitch | no issues with login |
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| 15:46.43 | sudomake | I dont know if youve been following the conversations with other people on the topic, but I wasnt able to login to resume session after stand-by. I shutdown and restarted, now I can login. dont know if it is now solved, or if I have to shutdown every time I have such problems. |
| 15:47.38 | sudomake | which however still doesnt solve the original problem. |
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| 15:53.12 | BCMM | DammitJim: i'm probably missing something here. why not just leave off the -y? |
| 15:53.51 | BCMM | i mean, if you're running apt manually from the command line anyway, it has a built-in feature where it tells you what it's about to do by default |
| 15:53.53 | dvs | BCMM, I think they are running this as an automatic script |
| 15:54.17 | greycat | which is a bad and dangerous thing |
| 15:54.23 | dvs | yup |
| 15:54.28 | BCMM | dvs: it seems likely, but i hope that's not what they're doing |
| 15:54.44 | BCMM | well, seems possible anyway |
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| 16:01.06 | DammitJim | no, not as an automatic script, but those are the commands that have been used in the past |
| 16:01.11 | DammitJim | so, we are trying to do it the right way |
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| 16:01.37 | DammitJim | so, if I need to be able to test the upgrade first, how do I ensure that the same packages get upgraded once we do this on the production systems? |
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| 16:28.58 | imMute | DammitJim: make a note of which packages were updated and to what version during testing and check that those are the packages/versions available whne you do the upgrade for real. |
| 16:29.49 | imMute | DammitJim: alternately, use the snapshot.debian.org infrastructure to "lock" your view of the apt repo to a specific point in time. |
| 16:30.12 | DammitJim | imMute, snapshot sounds like a great way of doing this |
| 16:30.21 | DammitJim | not sure I can do the former... that's just way too much work |
| 16:31.07 | imMute | DammitJim: for the former, run 'apt list --upgradable' and save it to a text file. do that during the real upgrade too and if the diff between the files is empty, nothing new has snuck in |
| 16:31.42 | DammitJim | imMute, I have to do this for hundreds of servers |
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| 16:32.40 | Kobaz | DammitJim: automate it... plenty of tools out there |
| 16:32.57 | imMute | Yeah, at that scale you need system automation. |
| 16:33.01 | DammitJim | but that doesn't automate the work you'd need to do to only install what you need |
| 16:33.09 | DammitJim | or what you tested for |
| 16:33.24 | DammitJim | they are options.. just not ideal and it sounds like snapshots might work better |
| 16:33.27 | imMute | DammitJim: pretty sure they do. |
| 16:33.49 | Kobaz | Chef, Puppet, Saltstack, Ansible...etc etc etc |
| 16:34.33 | Kobaz | once saltstack debian packages are fixed with the new security issue, then that'll be safe |
| 16:34.35 | DammitJim | I use saltstack and they don't provide a way to only upgrade the packages you tested for to the proper version in an automated way |
| 16:35.02 | Kobaz | DammitJim: there's always perl/python/bash/yadayada |
| 16:36.02 | DammitJim | snapshot.debian.org looks very promising |
| 16:36.09 | Kobaz | snapshot is cool |
| 16:36.20 | Kobaz | i've used it for repeatible installations |
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| 16:39.37 | annadane | Kobaz, salt did get fixed |
| 16:39.42 | Kobaz | oh cool |
| 16:39.49 | annadane | though i don't know if salt and saltstack are two different things |
| 16:39.52 | annadane | :P |
| 16:39.57 | annadane | but yeah i got the email |
| 16:40.24 | annadane | i also don't know what "fixed" means, whether that's completely fixed or "this is still super messed up, unplug your machines anyway" |
| 16:40.50 | DammitJim | what salt problem are you guys referring to? |
| 16:40.55 | greycat | !salt |
| 16:40.56 | dpkg | Salt is a tool used for remote mass system management. A vulnerability has recently become public (March to May 2020) and is being actively exploited. See <https://saltexploit.com/> or ask the #salt-store-miner-public or #salt channels on Freenode. For alternatives to salt, ask me about <ansible> or <puppet> |
| 16:41.00 | DammitJim | I had to patch my master late last week due to a security vulnerability |
| 16:41.17 | DammitJim | ah ok, that's the one |
| 16:41.35 | DammitJim | we ended up updating all the minions to stay on the same version |
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| 16:45.24 | annadane | (i know what stack refers to i just didn't know if saltstack had a specific meaning within salt) |
| 16:45.31 | annadane | anyway |
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| 17:28.24 | metbsd | how do i list all files in a package in installed in "apt install" |
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| 17:30.36 | sney | !refcard |
| 17:30.36 | dpkg | A short reference of Debian commands - quite useful for someone new to Debian - can be found at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/refcard/refcard.en.pdf and packaged for Debian as debian-refcard. See also <grounding>, <vim refcard>. |
| 17:30.53 | sney | metbsd: ^ there are a couple ways to do it, both listed here, along with a lot of other good fundamentals |
| 17:31.39 | antto | metbsd you can see a list of the files in synaptic btw |
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| 17:36.33 | sangy | it's that time of the year I need to install docker but I end up installing docker |
| 17:36.43 | sangy | what's the name of the docker.io package in debian stretch? |
| 17:37.02 | sangy | (this is for a test, I'm not using stretch for any particular resaon) |
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| 17:37.14 | greycat | ,v docker.io |
| 17:37.15 | judd | Package: docker.io on amd64 -- buster: 18.09.1+dfsg1-7.1+deb10u1; buster-security: 18.09.1+dfsg1-7.1+deb10u1; bullseye: 19.03.7+dfsg1-2; sid: 19.03.7+dfsg1-2 |
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| 17:38.02 | sangy | greycat: its not on main right? |
| 17:39.06 | greycat | it's not in *stretch* |
| 17:39.39 | sangy | lol thanks |
| 17:39.47 | sangy | I guess I'll have to move this from oldstable to stable |
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| 18:22.55 | pileofstraw | alright in my continuing saga to diagnose random reboots in a cohort of 300 identical machines at a rate of 1-3 per day |
| 18:23.37 | pileofstraw | I am taking 10% of that grouping and setting up kexec/kdump/crash, then running a cronjob to execute a script that checks the size of /var/crash and if it exceeds a threshold it CURLs to a slack app called Dumpy The A**hole Kernel |
| 18:23.44 | pileofstraw | who then messages me with the hostname of the crashed system |
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| 18:26.49 | petn-randall | pileofstraw: I haven't followed closely. Was it the case that it reboots occasionally on buster, but not on stretch? |
| 18:27.38 | greycat | At the moment I'm assuming it's the infamous "intel driver crashing" bug that only some people seem to run into. |
| 18:27.50 | pileofstraw | It's a two pronged issue and both prongs are possibly unrelated |
| 18:28.16 | pileofstraw | 300+ intel NUC7i5BNK machines running debian stretch went through this issue: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/566141/intermittent-lockup-right-as-kernel-loads-on-debian-hours-to-reproduce |
| 18:28.25 | pileofstraw | Without finding cause I field upgraded them all to Buster. |
| 18:28.49 | pileofstraw | Then I started seeing hard lockups during regular operation, with X frozen on whatever it was showing during the lock. No logging is generated. |
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| 18:29.10 | pileofstraw | Since then I've been bugging everyone in here for many days on what to try. I cannot reproduce the lockup but the volume of machines in the field means I see about 1-3 per day. |
| 18:29.22 | pileofstraw | I am trying to capture a kernel dump |
| 18:29.58 | pileofstraw | in trying to mitigate it I also discovered the iTCO_wdt watchdog on the NUC7i5BNK is 100% broken, lol |
| 18:30.08 | pileofstraw | talking to intel support about that |
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| 18:31.52 | petn-randall | pileofstraw: Are you sure it's not a HW issue? |
| 18:32.09 | pileofstraw | I am not sure of anything. |
| 18:32.15 | pileofstraw | I have no idea what it is. |
| 18:32.38 | pileofstraw | But I think I've ruled out RAM and unless there was a bad run of NUCs I am hoping it's a bug and not chronically broken hardware. |
| 18:33.29 | petn-randall | pileofstraw: I'd try a different OS on those machines to see if you have hard lockups there, too. If you have, you can at least say with some certainty that it's a hw issue. |
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| 18:33.52 | greycat | Have you tried variants on: have some of them on-and-running but not in X/Wayland, or have some of them on-and-running-in-plain-fvwm-no-we-browser? To rule out things like "it's the 3d acceleration". |
| 18:34.12 | petn-randall | That, too. |
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| 18:34.55 | pileofstraw | So I have approximately 15 machines in my shop that I can kill X on. At best, if X is the problem, I wont have a definitive answer. |
| 18:35.03 | pileofstraw | It'll either be "X was the problem" or "the crash just hasn't happened yet" |
| 18:35.16 | pileofstraw | I can't kill any of the in-field X instances because these are revenue generating adplayers. |
| 18:35.26 | pileofstraw | same answer for the web browser. |
| 18:35.40 | greycat | I'm not saying it's X. I'm saying it's probably some specific part of the graphics chipset being exercised in a vigorous way by apps that use 3D acceleration, such as GNOME. |
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| 18:39.03 | pileofstraw | Well at the very least we do not run a desktop environment |
| 18:39.26 | greycat | That's good. |
| 18:39.46 | pileofstraw | we run chromium which I don't think is accelerated and mpv is probably video accelerated |
| 18:39.55 | pileofstraw | but we don't use any 3d graphics features |
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| 18:40.26 | greycat | you can visit chrome://gpu within Chrome (and I assume Chromium) |
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| 18:40.48 | joepublic | but still more than visa or framebuffer can handle in the absense of the intel drivers? |
| 18:40.54 | joepublic | *vesa |
| 18:41.00 | lpancescu | i also had MATE+compiz hanging on an intel chipset (work laptop) just by switching windows with alt+tab a few times. don't even get me started on nouveau hanging the system with gnome jsut by changing backgrounds... |
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| 18:41.48 | pileofstraw | joepublic: what do you mean in the absence of intel drivers? |
| 18:42.21 | a90c | what do you suggest about installing old graphic card's drivers on new distros? whats the best way to do it? |
| 18:42.23 | pileofstraw | like instead of installing the driver stack from 01 and instead using the i915 kernel module with nonfree firmware? |
| 18:42.30 | ham5urg | I would like to build a ldap based login-server so to be used by windows-clients, linux-clients and a samba-server for /home (win and linux) as well as for /some_work_space. |
| 18:42.39 | pileofstraw | greycat: yeah once I figure out how to do that in terminal over ssh |
| 18:42.42 | joepublic | i mean were you to blacklist the i915 module on a test system |
| 18:42.51 | ham5urg | Is there some wiki out there? |
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| 18:43.58 | pileofstraw | joepublic: with this frequency i might not see a crash on an affected system for months? a year? |
| 18:44.10 | pileofstraw | whatever I test with, without being able to reproduce this, I need to do on dozens of machines. it sucks |
| 18:44.53 | joepublic | suckage acknowledged. I didn't really mean test for the crash so much as a test system to see if everything would be fast/capable enough if i915 is blacklisted. |
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| 18:45.41 | pileofstraw | Totally understand. I am confident it would work fine, we're not doing anything insane |
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| 18:45.58 | pileofstraw | I would dearly like to KNOW where this problem is coming from before I nerf all my machines as a fix though |
| 18:46.19 | pileofstraw | I am hoping I can catch a kernel trace. |
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| 18:48.06 | pileofstraw | i was really hoping intel-microcode would have fixed it too |
| 18:50.46 | FUtz | hey guys, when i use ssh -X or ssh -Y and i run gedit (for example) gedit will open grafically in my local host and remote host? or just in my localhost? |
| 18:52.03 | greycat | just in what you consider local |
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| 18:52.31 | lpancescu | FUtz: gedit runs on the remote host, but it will display n the localhost |
| 18:52.35 | metbsd | i need some help. i can never get tftpd to work |
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| 18:53.29 | FUtz | thanks lpancescu |
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| 19:04.26 | metbsd | i accidently delete /etc/init.d/tftpd-hpa |
| 19:04.32 | metbsd | is there a way to restore it? |
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| 19:05.59 | somiaj | solve( l^2 + 4*l + 13 = 0, l ); |
| 19:06.13 | somiaj | opps wrong window. |
| 19:06.15 | metbsd | is there a way to restore init.d files? |
| 19:06.24 | somiaj | !confmiss |
| 19:06.24 | dpkg | You have to especially tell the packaging system to reinstall config files because when they are gone, it is assumed that you want them to stay deleted. "aptitude -o DPkg::Options::='--force-confmiss' reinstall $packagename" will restore them (man dpkg for details). If the package uses <ucf> for config file management, ask me about <ucf confmiss>. |
| 19:06.35 | somiaj | metbsd: assuming they are beging treated as a conffile ^^ |
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| 19:08.15 | n_1-c_k | etckeeper is also a good way to recover from config screwups... don't ask me how I know |
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| 19:08.33 | metbsd | i don't have aptitude |
| 19:08.52 | greycat | That is a fixable problem. |
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| 19:09.25 | somiaj | apt should also support the -o option |
| 19:09.38 | somiaj | could be that factoid was before that feature was added or the author just liked aptitude |
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| 19:13.38 | metbsd | ok i restored it |
| 19:13.51 | metbsd | still can't get tftpd-hpa to work |
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| 19:14.24 | somiaj | are you using systemd, if so you may need to use the systemd unit file. |
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| 19:16.19 | exceptionz | i switched from testing to sid some time ago. is there any way to filter out the packages uploaded/updated in the last x days for package updates over apt? if not, is there a cli-way to get the information "uploaded/updated" per package? |
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| 19:17.03 | exceptionz | the resolution does not even have to be transitive, it is enough for me to be able to filter the main packets concerned. |
| 19:17.18 | exceptionz | packets -> packages |
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| 19:17.42 | annadane | that confmiss factoid is a bit confusing, i'd replace $packagename with <name of package> or something |
| 19:17.44 | somiaj | exceptionz: sid questions should be on #debian-next on irc.oftc.net, and if running sid you should really stay current with the package versions. |
| 19:17.54 | annadane | i know it isn't _that_ confusing but still |
| 19:18.16 | annadane | unless you specifically need the $ |
| 19:18.28 | somiaj | It could be a learning expereience, $foo is often a varaible. |
| 19:18.44 | greycat | At some point you have to cut your losses and realize that if you have to dumb down a factoid TOO much, your target audience isn't even Debian users any longer. It's Windows users or something. |
| 19:19.01 | somiaj | what about do I need <>, I don't see how your suggestion changes the are special characters needed or not. |
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| 19:19.16 | greycat | Plus, if you're dealing with someone THIS dumb, the redirection angle brackets are even more dangerous than the expansion dollar sign. |
| 19:19.21 | somiaj | apt install <fvwm> would fail for the same reason as apt install $fvwm |
| 19:19.41 | exceptionz | somiaj: thanks for the information. i will try to post it on oftc. in fact, i just plan to filter out the packages that have been updated in the last 3-5 days. x should not be that big :D. |
| 19:19.45 | somiaj | well actually not, $fvwm might be a variable in the shell, while <> tries redriects. |
| 19:19.58 | annadane | yeah, all good points |
| 19:20.07 | somiaj | exceptionz: it could be, really if you want to filter 5 days, run testing |
| 19:20.19 | somiaj | testing is said filter |
| 19:21.11 | exceptionz | somiaj: yeah, that's right, that's what i've been doing all along. only it bugs me during freeze. |
| 19:21.22 | somiaj | !slushy |
| 19:21.22 | dpkg | When a <testing> release becomes frozen, <unstable> tends to partially freeze as well. This is because developers are reluctant to upload radically new software to unstable, in case the frozen software in testing needs minor updates and to fix release critical bugs which keep testing from becoming <stable>. |
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| 19:24.35 | somiaj | exceptionz: also realize that sid/testing is often more buggy than normal (if that is a thing) right after a release, so maybe it is worth stablizing with testing, then waiting a bit before upgrading to testing again. |
| 19:25.50 | somiaj | exceptionz: there are also acceptable ways to install stuff from sid in testing, but in general, if you want a filter to catch bugs, run testing. |
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| 19:32.36 | exceptionz | somiaj: my usage information was not quite accurate anyway. i didn't use pure testing but a mixture of testing and sid with some pinnings. i just thought that i should switch to sid completely at some point. however, except for freeze time, it feels unnecessary, and with the additional hints you provided (especially about developer tendencies during freeze), i will reconsider it. my main concern with that filter was to encounter bugs |
| 19:32.36 | exceptionz | for which it is more likely that a corresponding issue has already been created. |
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| 20:15.13 | boeg | What version of debian would one want to use for a personal laptop with up-to-date software ? |
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| 20:16.09 | nkuttler | boeg: if you have to ask, stable |
| 20:16.22 | greycat | also, if you don't have to ask, stable |
| 20:18.25 | boeg | well, i tried stable a while back, but i found a lot of software not available in newer versions i needed, so it didn't work for me, so I just ended up installing arch, but I thought to see about trying debian again, but maybe with either testing or unstable to have a bit newer versions available, although not sure which of the two to go with. My intuition says testing |
| 20:19.01 | greycat | What specific "software" do you "need" to be still raw and bleeding? |
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| 20:19.24 | boeg | ah, sorry, i don't remember. I just remember that it ended up being a problem so i installed arch |
| 20:19.28 | greycat | Sometimes you can use -backports for it, or just ignore Debian's packages of it and do upstream. |
| 20:19.44 | greycat | If you can't even REMEMBER, then you have SNS, and Debian is not for you. |
| 20:19.57 | boeg | alright |
| 20:19.57 | annadane | yep, what greycat said, backports or just realize that debian is a framework and you don't have to use all debian packages |
| 20:20.08 | annadane | just don't mix stable with testing/unstable |
| 20:20.24 | annadane | also, flatpaks/appimages can be useful |
| 20:20.52 | phogg | or build it from source as god intended |
| 20:20.59 | boeg | alright, thanks, i think i'll just give stable a shot and see how far it goes |
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| 20:29.54 | f8e4 | how to chmod & chown & touch newfile at a dir ? |
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| 20:30.51 | greycat | Either: (1) Touch first. Then chown and chmod. Or (2) setpriv to the correct user, set umask as desired, then touch. |
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| 20:32.42 | f8e4 | greycat ok thank you, so 3 cmds not only one avail. |
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| 20:37.00 | zodd | Is there in Debian an alternative for etherpad? |
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| 20:40.06 | BCMM | zodd: what do you mean by that? do you mean something that's a native application rather than a web thing? |
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| 20:40.49 | zodd | Nope. Web is fine. It is just that there is no etherpad package, either provided by Debian or by etherpad.org |
| 20:41.07 | zodd | the whole idea behind etherpad is that is webbased afaik |
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| 20:44.32 | sney | zodd: it looks like some people have tried to get etherpad into debian but effort stalled a couple times. it doesn't look like there are any license issues. why not use etherpad, then, and be the one who gets it into debian |
| 20:46.20 | zodd | etherpad used to have their own apt repo in the past so it seems. No idea why that was abandoned |
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| 20:47.41 | sney | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=576998 last update was Feb 2019 |
| 20:47.43 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/576998 in wnpp (open): «RFP: etherpad-lite -- collaborative real-time editor»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2010-04-08; last modified: 2019-02-22. |
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| 20:58.45 | sawgood | ah: had to systemctl mask/disable/stop dhcpcd .... |
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| 20:59.04 | sawgood | greycat: thank again for your help yesterday |
| 20:59.37 | greycat | so you're not on Debian |
| 20:59.42 | greycat | 16:58 sawgood> ah: had to systemctl mask/disable/stop dhcpcd .... |
| 20:59.49 | greycat | Raspbian? |
| 21:00.25 | sawgood | greycat: RockPro64 .... 4GB RAM and eMMC |
| 21:00.50 | phogg | Yes or No would be more clear. |
| 21:01.04 | sawgood | greycat: it is a Debian 9 image (pre-built) and flashed to eMMC chip |
| 21:01.13 | greycat | So, it's not Debian. Got it. |
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| 21:01.51 | sawgood | greycat: I too like saying its not full Debian: its an image, but others around me say I'm wrong and that this is full Debian 9, so I let it go |
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| 21:02.30 | greycat | The relevant part here is that you had to do something to work around the non-Debian piece of the "image". Debian does not install dhcpcd by default. Raspbian does, I believe. |
| 21:02.40 | greycat | So your OS is probably closer to Raspbian than Debian. |
| 21:02.44 | sawgood | greycat: when I install Debin 9 or 10 from netinstall.ISO I do not face that concern |
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| 21:03.31 | sney | if a hardware OEM rolls an image with all packages from debian sources, it is still debian, it's what debian itself refers to as "blends." a lot of those arm board vendors include a proprietary repo for extra packages though |
| 21:03.41 | sawgood | greycat: are you guys seeing lots of Rasberry/Debian usage boggles here? |
| 21:04.06 | greycat | We are constantly harassed by "based on Debian" people. |
| 21:04.06 | sney | but just using a different dhcp client than the standard debian task(s) isn't enough to consider something a derivative IMO |
| 21:04.21 | sney | ,v dhcpcd5 |
| 21:04.22 | judd | Package: dhcpcd5 on amd64 -- jessie: 6.0.5-2; jessie-security: 6.0.5-2+deb8u1; stretch: 6.10.1-1; buster: 7.1.0-2; bullseye: 7.1.0-2+b1; sid: 7.1.0-2+b1 |
| 21:04.30 | greycat | sney: maybe, maybe not. We don't know what else was changed. We don't even have a *name*. |
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| 21:05.00 | sney | I mean at that point we may as well disregard all of the slightly-oddball VPS images too |
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| 21:05.33 | phogg | If it's not bug-for-bug like Debian it's hard to support if all you can check against is real Debian. |
| 21:06.21 | sney | digital ocean rolled their own kernel but otherwise it's 100% buster? oops, too bad |
| 21:06.46 | phogg | If it's Debian repos + some additional vendor repos and packages it's probably close enough that you can support it, up until the vendor packages become involved. If it's a custom rolled install image it's hard to be sure that it's *just* a different package selection. |
| 21:06.53 | sawgood | I really like using small form factor PCs with multiple NICs for full Debian from .ISO installs: this is my 1st time using Rasberry/Debian ... I had them sitting on a shelf not in use: so I thought why not try to make them work |
| 21:07.15 | phogg | from experience it's usually not just Debian + a package selection, it's that AND random config changes by people who don't necessarily know what they're breaking |
| 21:08.02 | phogg | sawgood: a good impulse, but be sure to be up front about that for support purposes |
| 21:08.15 | sney | yeah and we can still support that because it's no different from a user breaking their own system, in practice |
| 21:08.31 | zodd | hmm. The dependency list of etherpad is quite impressive.... |
| 21:08.51 | phogg | sney: at least in those cases there's some hope the user will be able to *tell you what he changed* |
| 21:08.59 | sney | hahaha sure maybe |
| 21:09.06 | sney | "I don't know I was on stackexchange" |
| 21:09.38 | phogg | I'm certainly more confident in telling him how to reset to the baseline and then move forward. |
| 21:11.14 | sney | "I did chmod 777 is that ok" |
| 21:11.45 | sney | "I followed this howto for installing $thing (links blog page from 2009)" |
| 21:12.05 | sney | and those are the ones who tell you. |
| 21:12.54 | phogg | Which is why it's good that I know what it *should* look like. |
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| 21:20.07 | otyugh | misc question : can I from commandline and without browsing, know if I'm using stable/testing ? |
| 21:20.24 | otyugh | (the idea would be to trigger something when the codename goes to oldstable for instance) |
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| 21:22.25 | n_1-c_k | otyugh, try /etc/os-release or /etc/debian_version |
| 21:22.25 | diogenes_ | otyugh, maybe: cat /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 21:22.53 | f8e4 | dob1 | what does it means on htop when virt is in red? |
| 21:22.56 | f8e4 | did you find out ? |
| 21:23.12 | dob1 | f8e4, no |
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| 21:23.30 | oxek | this is the first month that I am using debian and I am wondering how security updates work with respect to firefox-esr. Firefox 68.8.0esr is out and contains security fixes, but debian contains 68.7.0esr. |
| 21:23.47 | oxek | Does debian not update firefox for the lifetime of a release, and only backport very specific patches |
| 21:23.50 | otyugh | n_1-c_k, diogenes_ : this gives the codename, not the "freshness" of it (oldstable/stable/testing...) :( |
| 21:24.06 | oxek | or has debian determined that none of the security issues in 68.8.0esr affect the version in debian? |
| 21:24.14 | oxek | or am I being impatient? |
| 21:24.27 | tomreyn | oxek: you can check this here https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/ |
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| 21:25.00 | tomreyn | oxek: you're correctly assuming that there will be some delay required for packaging the updated release |
| 21:25.20 | LtL | oxek: 68.8.0esr-1~deb10u1 is available as of today. |
| 21:25.22 | tomreyn | but it's usually 'not much'. |
| 21:25.41 | dvs | ,v firefox-esr |
| 21:25.42 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch: 68.4.1esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.4.1esr-1~deb10u1; jessie-security: 68.7.0esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.7.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.7.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster-proposed-updates: 68.7.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 68.7.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 68.7.0esr-1; |
| 21:25.43 | judd | sid: 68.8.0esr-1 |
| 21:25.51 | greycat | The following packages will be upgraded: |
| 21:25.51 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:26.08 | greycat | Yup. Ironig, that they're asking this on the day when a firefox-esr update is released. |
| 21:26.11 | greycat | Ironic* |
| 21:26.22 | diogenes_ | otyugh, apt-cache policy |
| 21:27.04 | oxek | this is so weird, I did `apt update` just before asking this question and no updates were found, I did it again now and it sees the firefox-esr update... Sorry for the noise. |
| 21:27.31 | tomreyn | https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/firefox-esr |
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| 21:43.47 | pileofstraw | oxek: i've seen that happen, its odd |
| 21:43.50 | pileofstraw | its like apt has to catch up |
| 21:44.24 | oxek | pileofstraw: but my understanding is that `apt update` hits the security repo, which is the same for everyone because it is not a mirror |
| 21:44.36 | oxek | so it's really weird |
| 21:44.53 | sney | the mirrors are distributed and don't all sync immediately. security.debian.org is a round robin dns I believe, not a single host |
| 21:45.10 | greycat | deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free |
| 21:45.15 | greycat | Is part of the mirror network. |
| 21:45.23 | oxek | oh |
| 21:45.43 | greycat | And even if you're using the older security.debian.org URLs, it's still a (small) round robin DNS. |
| 21:46.04 | greycat | Oh, actually much bigger today than when I last checked. |
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| 21:46.17 | greycat | "host security.debian.org" is informative. |
| 21:46.22 | oxek | I have this line in my sources.list "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free" should I be changing it to something else? |
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| 21:50.17 | LtL | oxek: no |
| 21:51.12 | LtL | oxek: subscribe to the mailing list and you'll be notified of all security announcements before they hit the repo's. |
| 21:51.27 | oxek | LtL: I was wondering because greycat wrote "And even if you're using the older security.debian.org URLs" so I thought there was something newer. Like using deb.debian.org for the security updates as well. |
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| 21:54.03 | LtL | oxek: i use, deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free, i believe dpkg will tell you the same. |
| 21:54.54 | imMute | greycat: does that mean is it possible to mirror the security repo using the rsync script now?? |
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| 21:56.34 | LtL | oxek: okay, i was wrong. |
| 21:56.50 | LtL | !buster sources.list |
| 21:56.50 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 21:57.07 | imMute | https://deb.debian.org/ has some really good info about how the deb.debian.org stuff works. |
| 21:57.53 | oxek | I guess if I use deb.debian.org for security, then I can use the https version, which is nice |
| 21:58.39 | oxek | good to know, thanks everyone |
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| 22:42.21 | Logg | Anyone know when nano started saving when you hit ctrl+s instead of notifying the user "[ XOFF mumble mumble ]" |
| 22:42.31 | Logg | I was very surprised |
| 22:43.12 | karlpinc | Logg: There's the changelog in /usr/share/doc/.... |
| 22:43.20 | Logg | karlpinc, thank you. |
| 22:44.48 | karlpinc | Logg: I never know, but it's always possible that xoff is intercepted and acted on by another layer before it even gets to nano. Certainly if you've got a physical modem it can grab characters right from under your feet. ;-) |
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| 22:45.26 | karlpinc | Logg: 2 changelogs actually. One for debian patches and another for upstream. |
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| 22:45.58 | Logg | not using my physical modem today, just the regular old terminal emulator. But yeah, I did not know about changelog location, so that is actually very useful |
| 22:46.51 | karlpinc | Logg: The "hidden gem" Debian docs are in the readme.debian, found in the same place. |
| 22:46.55 | karlpinc | !readme.debian |
| 22:46.55 | dpkg | README.Debian (or README.Debian.gz) is a document found in the /usr/share/doc/$packagename/ which explains any Debian specific details in the package's operation or configuration. |
| 22:47.55 | karlpinc | oxek: You also might be interested in the above. ^^ |
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| 22:50.56 | drs | how can i see what flags were passed to ./configure for a certain package? |
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| 22:51.46 | drs | package I'm interested in: https://packages.debian.org/sid/dosbox-debug |
| 22:53.32 | sney | drs: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/dosbox has links for all of the developer and build information, including to browse the git repo for the debian package |
| 22:54.39 | sney | debian package build information will be in the debian/rules file(s) |
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| 22:55.25 | karlpinc | drs: sources.debian.org has browsable source. You can read the rules file there. |
| 22:55.56 | sney | this is true as well though I find sources to be slower than the other options |
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| 22:56.39 | sney | oh, it's pretty quick now. I wonder when that changed |
| 22:56.43 | karlpinc | sney: I was going to ask. Anything else you like about your link other than speed? |
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| 22:57.34 | sney | tracker is a good single point of information, easy to reference changelogs, d/control, project homepage, available versions, upload dates, relevant bugs, etc all on one page |
| 22:57.48 | drs | perfect, thanks friends. |
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| 23:00.43 | cmptr | I'm trying to install Debian Buster on my Dell XPS 9300 but it isn't identifying my NVMe. I have removed the one that came with the laptop and installed a Samsung 970 EVO Plus. I do have SecureBoot enabled and surprisingly I wasn't given any troubles trying to boot off the usb. I also chose to do the install with BUllsEye because I thought it would have support for my Killer Adapter (Which it |
| 23:00.46 | cmptr | doens't right off the bat). Is there maybe a driver that I need to include for the Samsung 970 EVO Plus? |
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| 23:02.03 | karlpinc | cmptr: Do you think it needs non-free firmware? (Did you install with the unoffical installer which includes non-free firmware and installs same?) |
| 23:02.24 | karlpinc | !firmware images |
| 23:02.24 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
| 23:02.59 | karlpinc | cmptr: You can use a vt to check the installer's console and maybe get into some logs. The installer has at least 3 vts. |
| 23:03.00 | karlpinc | !vt |
| 23:03.00 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, vt is Virtual Terminal, like the console; change VTs using Alt+Left/Right or Alt+F1, Alt+F2 etc. To get from X to a VT, use Ctrl+Alt+F1 (and Alt+F7 to get back, most likely). You can also use "chvt" to switch VT. VT is also used to mean Intel VT-x or VT-d (virtualization support; the AMD counterpart is called AMD-V or Pacifica), ask me about <xve>. |
| 23:03.33 | karlpinc | cmptr: (You are having trouble during the install, right?) |
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| 23:07.37 | cmptr | I actually did use the unnoficial installed that inluded the non-free firmware hoping that it would include the Killer adapter to of which it did not. I will try to see some logs with VT whcih I have not done yet. It also asked me if I wanted to force intall with UEFI which I chose no because I didn't want to lose my Windows install. I will be afk for a bit, but I do appriciate any help. Thank |
| 23:07.39 | cmptr | you in advance. I will report when I am back. |
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| 23:16.06 | karlpinc | cmptr: You might also be interested in: https://manpages.debian.org/buster/lvm2/lvmcache.7.en.html For sticking a ssd in front of a spinning disk. |
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| 23:41.12 | f8e4 | i try to grasp debian exposed to internet |
| 23:41.16 | f8e4 | what is avail by default? |
| 23:41.28 | f8e4 | how can someone enter/break into debian? |
| 23:42.01 | sney | linux systems in general are pretty closed off by default. it's not like windows where it's constantly sticking its fingers into the rest of the network |
| 23:42.04 | f8e4 | how to review all available routes? every protocol has ports and uses a network interface is that all ? |
| 23:42.42 | sney | you can look at e.g. 'ss -l' to see what's listening. but on a default buster install an attacker would pretty much need local hardware access to get in |
| 23:42.48 | f8e4 | eg i can ping a debian machine by default |
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| 23:43.23 | f8e4 | thats bad, it should be silent |
| 23:43.30 | sney | ping is not a security hole |
| 23:43.48 | f8e4 | leaking info is bad |
| 23:43.50 | sney | morons spreading that particular bit of bullshit have caused more networking problems than I can count |
| 23:44.16 | sney | go read the ICMP standard and tell me what "info" is "leaking" |
| 23:44.51 | annadane | you do need specific practices if you run, like, apache, wordpress, certain other applications to do with servers, but if you're doing that you're probably going to read up about the process anyway and understand the risks involved |
| 23:45.17 | annadane | but just stock debian without specific considerations, no you don't necessarily need to go around setting up firewalls and closing off ports etc |
| 23:45.31 | annadane | there's a hardening debian guide somewhere but i think it's several years ago |
| 23:45.32 | sney | all ports are closed unless they're open for a specific reason |
| 23:45.34 | annadane | years old* |
| 23:45.55 | f8e4 | is ports everything i need to look for? |
| 23:46.25 | f8e4 | mmh will look https://wiki.debian.org/Hardening tooo |
| 23:46.42 | sney | security is meaningless if you don't understand what you are securing |
| 23:46.49 | annadane | ^ pretty much |
| 23:47.28 | f8e4 | 1. against these morons: sshd[5336]: Disconnected from invalid user root 167.86.78.157 port 59674 [preauth] |
| 23:47.34 | annadane | just avoid the root account unless not necessary |
| 23:47.35 | sney | and debian has sane defaults that will protect you from "hackers" in most cases. |
| 23:47.47 | annadane | unless necessary* i can't type |
| 23:48.14 | sney | that's a botnet. there are lots of botnets that will try to ssh into your system. sshd defaults in debian will protect you from those with no modification. |
| 23:48.21 | sney | you can do more to reduce the network load. but it's minimal anyway. |
| 23:49.14 | f8e4 | ss -l is pretty short, seems to be not much going on, |
| 23:49.52 | f8e4 | some udp, tcp and thats it, mmh, nginx will change that |
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| 23:50.28 | f8e4 | my worry: my client isp is dynamic ip and i cant firewall off others by default |
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| 23:50.41 | f8e4 | or bind eg postgres to allow only one external |
| 23:51.26 | sney | don't run sql over an open network if you can help it. vpns or tunnels are nice if you need remote sql, otherwise just bind it to localhost |
| 23:51.47 | f8e4 | sney i hvae to open to use remote dbcs to connect to it |
| 23:52.02 | f8e4 | tunnels are unstable ssh -L or spiped ugh |
| 23:52.58 | f8e4 | will go read some stuff |
| 23:53.11 | sney | postgres is pretty smart about login control too. you can do all sorts of stuff to limit who even gets to *try* to log in |
| 23:53.38 | f8e4 | yup listen_address if i had a static ip :D |
| 23:53.52 | f8e4 | currently = '*' everyone invited |
| 23:54.11 | f8e4 | put i think pg got their stuff figured. |
| 23:54.35 | sney | more than listen_address. pg_hba.conf gives you lots of control |
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