| 00:00.14 | *** join/#debian dedz (~dedz@23.188-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 00:00.22 | mbnt | Hi, my mobo has a feature called XMP, where I can switch the RAM speed to what it is capable of instead of the default speed. However, when I boot into my Debian OS, it behaves all wonky. Can Debian support XMP? |
| 00:01.10 | mbnt | So, on auto setting, debian is fine, on XMP, programs freeze/crash/data goes missing |
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| 00:01.35 | sney | that sounds like the xmp feature probably relies on some usermode windows driver |
| 00:02.17 | mbnt | sney, I guess Debian has not acquired their own version of it yet |
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| 00:02.45 | mbnt | I thought if I toggled some setting... |
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| 00:03.22 | sney | it would be upstream linux, since it's a hardware thing. the other possibility is that the "capable of" speed is over-estimated and you're really overclocking the ram past what it can handle |
| 00:03.35 | trek00 | it should work on linux, but it really depends by the hardware configuration (ddr and mobo) |
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| 00:03.54 | mbnt | The mobo is not new and it is DDR3, so not too upstream |
| 00:04.29 | mbnt | trek00, In addition to XMP, what other bio settingw ould I need to tweak? |
| 00:04.36 | trek00 | mbnt: if it's not a voltage issue, try to higher the timings |
| 00:04.39 | mbnt | bios setting, I mean |
| 00:04.56 | mbnt | trek00, What do you mean higher timing? |
| 00:04.57 | sney | "upstream" refers to the developers who worked on stuff before it got to debian, in this case kernel.org |
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| 00:06.19 | trek00 | for example if timings are 9-9-9-24 try with 10-9-9-25 |
| 00:07.40 | mbnt | trek00, This is the RAM stick, http://www.poweredbymushkin.com/Home/index.php/products2/item/60-discontinued-memory/832-997122r what timing would you suggest? |
| 00:08.09 | trek00 | mbnt: i'm searching a good guide |
| 00:08.23 | trek00 | i would try 11-12-12-29 at first |
| 00:08.24 | mbnt | trek00, thanks |
| 00:09.13 | mbnt | I do video editing and cannot buy any more ram for my mobo because it is dated. So I am stuck trying to max out what I got. |
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| 00:12.43 | randompleb | HI, does default-jdk point to the recommended jdk for a debian version? Does it get upgraded when a new jdk gets "stable"? |
| 00:14.05 | sney | yes |
| 00:14.24 | randompleb | Thanks. |
| 00:14.25 | sney | see 'apt show default-jdk' |
| 00:15.11 | sney | it gets upgraded when you upgrade to a new debian release, e.g. 9 to 10. the default-jdk for debian 10 will stay the same except for bugfixes etc |
| 00:15.33 | randompleb | I see. Thanks. |
| 00:17.58 | trek00 | mbnt: https://www.masterslair.com/tightening-your-memory-ram-timings |
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| 00:18.35 | trek00 | mbnt: you need to increase by 1 trcd and tras |
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| 00:19.09 | trek00 | mbnt: if it freeze try to increase by 1 tcl and trp and by 2 tras |
| 00:19.24 | trek00 | mbnt: and go on until it doesn't freeze anymore |
| 00:19.37 | mbnt | trek00, Bookmarked, thanks! |
| 00:19.52 | mbnt | It is a pity I cannot buy another two sticks |
| 00:20.08 | mbnt | I have to buy a whol enew mobo instad. : - ( |
| 00:20.38 | trek00 | mbnt: you could also check the voltage values, may be too high for your mobo (or ddr if they have heating issues) |
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| 00:23.02 | mbnt | trek00, manual says xmp is supported... |
| 00:23.27 | mbnt | trek00, for mobo, i mean |
| 00:24.00 | trek00 | mbnt: yeah, but some ddr-mobo configuration play better than others, so you really need to fine tuning them |
| 00:24.11 | trek00 | mbnt: which mobo model? |
| 00:24.33 | mbnt | trek00, Gigabyte GA-f2A88x-d3h |
| 00:24.55 | sney | newer than mine! heh |
| 00:25.02 | mbnt | "ultra durable", or so it claims. : - b |
| 00:25.37 | mbnt | Well, Blender chokes when I use it, so maybe it will choke less. |
| 00:26.00 | randompleb | Damn I had a LGA 775 board G41M-ES2L still works. My 1155 board (ASUS) battery died so I replaced it with my gigaby te one. I believe they had "dual bios" as advertisement back in 2008.. |
| 00:26.13 | trek00 | mbnt: it should work, but after a bit of tuning on timings |
| 00:26.34 | mbnt | trek00, So I look for timings in the BIOS/ |
| 00:26.37 | mbnt | ? |
| 00:26.53 | trek00 | mbnt: yes |
| 00:27.16 | trek00 | mbnt: don't expect big improvements on the speed however |
| 00:27.19 | mbnt | I'm such a newb |
| 00:27.21 | mbnt | thanks |
| 00:27.34 | trek00 | mbnt: are you using blender via opencl? |
| 00:28.19 | trek00 | (on the internal gpu?) |
| 00:28.21 | mbnt | mbnt, Yeah. I have the amd proprietary drivers installed for Ubuntu and Windows (multiboot) but I also have Debian |
| 00:28.34 | mbnt | I don't think I can install amdgpupro for Debian |
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| 00:28.46 | trek00 | mbnt: the opensource drivers should be faster |
| 00:28.48 | mbnt | I have an RX560 graphics card |
| 00:29.05 | mbnt | No, Blender will not recognize open drivers |
| 00:29.20 | mbnt | Blender needs the proproietary ones |
| 00:29.28 | trek00 | mbnt: well don't expect big speed improvements with XMP if you are using the RX560 to do rendering |
| 00:30.00 | trek00 | your memory should be already fast enough |
| 00:30.24 | mbnt | trek00, Well, I run other programs too...audio editing, graphics work... |
| 00:31.46 | trek00 | mbnt: it could help a little but no more than 10% i guess |
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| 00:33.56 | LtL | I run Blender on open source drivers |
| 00:34.16 | mbnt | LtL, Nvidea or AMD? |
| 00:34.30 | LtL | mbnt: neither, intel |
| 00:34.44 | mbnt | LtL, I boycot intel |
| 00:35.38 | hunter0one | Came back to Debian today =) |
| 00:38.34 | trek00 | mbnt: if you want use opensource drivers with opencl from amdgpu-pro you could, but no guarantees it will work fine https://linuxconfig.org/install-opencl-for-the-amdgpu-open-source-drivers-on-debian-and-ubuntu |
| 00:38.55 | trek00 | hunter0one: feel good? |
| 00:39.12 | hunter0one | trek00: Absolutely |
| 00:39.17 | trek00 | good! :) |
| 00:39.35 | hunter0one | I always come back. Maybe I can end my distro hopping habit. |
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| 00:43.20 | mbnt | trek00, Yeah, AMDGPUPRO gets buggy. It is too bad AMD will not make it more stable, but the $$$ is with Windows, I guess. |
| 00:43.45 | mbnt | I heard that Neuveau drivers for Nvidea are not so good... |
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| 00:44.02 | mbnt | nor are proprietary nvidea ones, is this true? |
| 00:44.40 | sney | nvidia proprietary works very well but when there's a problem you're out of luck, and they don't always keep up with kernel/xorg changes as fast as we'd like. |
| 00:44.57 | sney | nouveau is fine for basic usage and older gpus |
| 00:45.23 | sney | there was a time when amd said they were going to scrap the proprietary (then fglrx) linux driver and just contribute to radeon. I'm not sure what happened to that |
| 00:45.25 | trek00 | mbnt: with amd they are focusing more on opensource drivers on linux, but the opencl part (radeon on compute ROCm) is not yet available on debian/ubuntu |
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| 00:49.13 | mbnt | So AMDGPUPRO it is |
| 00:49.35 | mbnt | Though AMD is the one that sent Stallman to jail |
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| 00:50.00 | mbnt | disgraceful |
| 00:50.06 | hunter0one | I use an RX 580 and the open-source drivers work fine |
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| 00:51.57 | trek00 | mbnt: the open amdgpu should be faster and more stable then amdgpu-pro, it should be better to install only the opencl part from amdgpu-pro |
| 00:53.18 | tomreyn | there's also a fully open opencl stack, but it's not as mature. |
| 00:53.39 | mbnt | trek00, I will look into that link you sent me |
| 00:53.54 | mbnt | It would be awesome to do real video editingon Debian |
| 00:53.56 | trek00 | mbnt: i think Stallman is never gone to jail :) |
| 00:54.20 | mbnt | trek00, He did go, briefly, because he protested against AMD proprietary drivers |
| 00:54.39 | mbnt | I should protest too |
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| 00:54.52 | tomreyn | looks like he succeeded then |
| 00:55.05 | trek00 | interesting :) |
| 00:55.33 | cyveris | I can't find any record whatsoever of Stallman ever being jailed. |
| 00:56.06 | trek00 | Protesting against proprietary software in April 2006, Stallman held a "Don't buy from ATI, enemy of your freedom" placard at a speech by an ATI representative in the building where Stallman worked, resulting in the police being called. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stallman#Activism |
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| 00:56.34 | trek00 | he succeeded anyway :) |
| 00:56.52 | cyveris | Yeah. He wasn't even arrested, let alone jailed. |
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| 00:58.48 | sney | free software doesn't have a lunatic like that anymore, hmm |
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| 01:43.25 | bswartz | Why can't I join the #debian-devel channel? |
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| 01:46.03 | sney | !invite only |
| 01:46.03 | dpkg | Many debian channels are on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you try to join one and you see "Cannot join (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 01:46.44 | bswartz | sney: ty |
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| 01:52.09 | mbnt | trek00, are you there? |
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| 01:58.09 | mbnt | trek00, I ran this : https://linuxconfig.org/install-opencl-for-the-amdgpu-open-source-drivers-on-debian-and-ubuntu as you suggested and now I can no longer launch blender. |
| 01:58.30 | mbnt | trek00, Must I uninstall MESA drivers or reboot? The instructions on thi spage does not say. |
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| 02:34.23 | mbnt | trek00: how do i uninstall that stack you sent me a link to, that opencl |
| 02:34.37 | mbnt | it broke my desktop |
| 02:36.21 | mbnt | No wonder Stallman protested |
| 02:37.27 | mbnt | and AMD sent the fuzz |
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| 02:56.50 | mbnt | Okay, anyone here know how to uninstall the stack here: https://linuxconfig.org/install-opencl-for-the-amdgpu-open-source-drivers-on-debian-and-ubuntu |
| 02:58.59 | RodrigoBR | People doing these documentations don't usually remember that we may want to uninstall... |
| 02:59.21 | mbnt | I did an 'rm -rf' |
| 02:59.31 | mbnt | That is not enough, apparently |
| 03:00.12 | mbnt | I would prefer to avoid reinstalling the whole OS |
| 03:01.25 | mbnt | I have root access via command line so am hoping there is some way I can get my GUI back |
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| 03:02.13 | RodrigoBR | when installing with sudo apt install ./file.deb, it usually says "installing from xxx instead of file.deb" |
| 03:02.38 | RodrigoBR | Then "sudo apt purge xxx" usually works |
| 03:02.54 | RodrigoBR | that's why I avoid using dpkg -i |
| 03:02.56 | RodrigoBR | never tried it |
| 03:04.33 | mbnt | It was a dodgy link that trek00 sent and it was foolish of me to trust it |
| 03:05.42 | mbnt | Is there a counter command to 'dpkg -i' ? |
| 03:06.37 | RodrigoBR | dpkg -P ? |
| 03:06.38 | dpkg | RodrigoBR: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface. |
| 03:06.58 | RodrigoBR | 'dpkg -P' ? |
| 03:07.25 | mbnt | nah |
| 03:09.35 | RodrigoBR | 'dpkg -r' ? |
| 03:09.58 | RodrigoBR | P is for purge, r for remove |
| 03:10.06 | mbnt | RodrigoBR: tried that already |
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| 03:15.31 | mbnt | What's a good distro to install? |
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| 03:19.20 | Unit193 | Well you are in #debian, so likely the answer will be 'Debian'. |
| 03:19.38 | mbnt | bwhahah |
| 03:20.02 | broseph | chuckles |
| 03:20.16 | mbnt | Unit193: Do you know how to unsinstall this crap? |
| 03:20.47 | mbnt | Unit193: https://linuxconfig.org/install-opencl-for-the-amdgpu-open-source-drivers-on-debian-and-ubuntu |
| 03:21.20 | mbnt | Unit193: I cannot get into my GUI now because of that |
| 03:21.43 | Unit193 | I believe someone else tried to give you answers, and you didn't seem to like them. |
| 03:21.49 | RodrigoBR | Debian is lighter than Ubuntu, thus it's better. There are many files and solutions common to both. And since Ubuntu is so famous, you'll find lots of answers on Google that serve for Debian as well |
| 03:22.10 | mbnt | Unit193: It was not that I did not like it, rather, it was that it did not work. |
| 03:22.32 | RodrigoBR | video drivers for Linux suck, because they're most proprietary |
| 03:22.41 | mbnt | Unit193: And I did not like that it did not work. |
| 03:22.47 | RodrigoBR | So install the proper video driver is the first thing you should do after installing the system |
| 03:22.52 | Unit193 | mbnt: So other than "didn't work" and "tried that already", do you have some error output or something? |
| 03:23.09 | mbnt | Unit193: Yeah, no GUI |
| 03:23.24 | mbnt | Not even command line unless I get into rescue mode |
| 03:23.36 | RodrigoBR | @mbnt Have you tried unix.stackexchange.com already? |
| 03:24.05 | mbnt | I was hoping a straightforward uninstall of all that crab would bring me to the pre-install state |
| 03:24.09 | Unit193 | mbnt: So when you tried to remove the offending package, what output did you get? |
| 03:24.14 | mbnt | Is that asking too much? |
| 03:24.44 | mbnt | Nothing in the following line, so the assumption was that it worked |
| 03:25.00 | mbnt | Then when I reboot, I got an existential nada |
| 03:25.27 | RodrigoBR | Have you tried unix.stackexchange.com already? |
| 03:25.34 | Unit193 | Anything in /var/log/Xorg.0.log? |
| 03:25.38 | mbnt | Except in rescue mode |
| 03:26.17 | mbnt | Unit193: Ahhh, you mean spend a coupld of days trying to debug versus reinstalling for an hour or two |
| 03:26.37 | Unit193 | No, I do not mean that but if you'd rather re-install, that's fine. :) |
| 03:27.09 | mbnt | Apparently uninstalling is not so straightforward |
| 03:27.35 | Unit193 | If a package is poorly created, it might not. |
| 03:30.10 | mbnt | Unit193: May the entire AMD development and managment get stuffed in Stallman's undergarmants on a hot, muggy day |
| 03:32.23 | RodrigoBR | mbnt, have you tried unix.stackexchange.com already ? |
| 03:33.15 | mbnt | RodrigoBR: I want a simple answer to removing that opencl graphics stack, if this channel does not know, then I am borked |
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| 03:35.49 | RodrigoBR | stackexchange has far more public than here |
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| 03:37.37 | RodrigoBR | here you have 1244 people? There you have 350k |
| 03:38.53 | otis | i came to say that oh-my-szh has absotutely fantastic plugins. i recommend with 5 stars for productivity boost. |
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| 05:04.23 | bolt | I just realized I'm postponing upgrading to buster only because I can't be arsed configuring all of my tiling wm stuff, all the hotkeys and customizations again... My config is getting in the way of me doing stuff O.o |
| 05:05.08 | somiaj | what wm do you use? |
| 05:05.13 | bolt | awesome |
| 05:05.40 | bolt | And, as you do with a tiling wm, I've customized the hell out of it to make everything work brilliantly. |
| 05:06.40 | somiaj | and all of this customization lives nicely in $HOME right? |
| 05:06.51 | somiaj | ,v awesome |
| 05:06.52 | judd | Package: awesome on amd64 -- jessie: 3.4.15-1+b1; stretch: 4.0-1; bullseye: 4.3-4; buster: 4.3-4; sid: 4.3-4 |
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| 05:07.50 | somiaj | anyways you can upgrade in place from stretch->buster, and with most WMs all the configuration should live nicely in $HOME, so provided awsome didn't do any incpmadable changes from 4.0 to 4.3, you shuld be able to upgrade in place and have the exact same setup |
| 05:07.53 | bolt | somiaj: of course it does. I've already tested upgrading however, and things will break. A bunch of programs change their window hints and such so my custom positioning rules break. |
| 05:07.57 | somiaj | (At least as far sa the wm goes) |
| 05:08.40 | somiaj | hmm, I've been running fvwm for 10+ years, and I dno't have to change much of anything, except a few styles here and there, maybe you should be triggering off of diffrent hints |
| 05:09.02 | somiaj | though you could also just being using software that changes its class/resource/name way more often than ti should |
| 05:09.43 | bolt | Time to go window manager hunting and finding something less fancy that I can live with, because this is just stupid. After all, I can survive even on Windows for some of my workflow. I must be able to find a WM that's tolerable with less than an hour of work :) |
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| 05:10.56 | somiaj | do you just use a ton of software, because maybe that is the difference here, i do most my work in xterms, so I have xterm/firefox and maybe a few other gui apps that I rarely use like gvim, and eveince |
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| 05:13.16 | bolt | Yeah, I have to use a lot of different stuff. so much so that I went the route of running many GUI apps in separate docker containers so their packages and dependencies won't clutter up my main system. That worked surprisingly well. |
| 05:13.22 | RodrigoBR | No way you can do a bash script to save all the configuration to a file, and other script to put it back again? That would be useful! |
| 05:13.51 | RodrigoBR | I've never used wm though, so sorry if it's a silly idea |
| 05:14.00 | bolt | The bash script would have to know about all the changes to every single piece of software :) |
| 05:14.23 | RodrigoBR | awesome should have this somewhere? |
| 05:15.14 | bolt | it's not their responsibility |
| 05:15.56 | RodrigoBR | so, where the windows layouts are stored? |
| 05:16.20 | RodrigoBR | what is awesome doing, after all? |
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| 05:20.01 | somiaj | RodrigoBR: problem is lots of gui software is garbage and doens't realize how important ICCCM2/EWMH hints are |
| 05:20.22 | somiaj | so they change things without realize the ramifications to us windowmanager users who use that to control our enviroment |
| 05:21.28 | BazookaTooth | strange form of tech debt |
| 05:21.42 | RodrigoBR | ok, but let me understand: awesome helps you setting a default window position for many different software? It must put these definitions somewhere, in its own dir or in each program dir, right? |
| 05:22.24 | somiaj | RodrigoBR: that is not the issue, a window manager is what xorg uses to control where windows appear, how they are layed out, which window has focus, which window is on top of another and so on. |
| 05:22.43 | RodrigoBR | right |
| 05:23.05 | somiaj | some of the customizations a user might want is to run firefox on desktop 2 maximized |
| 05:23.45 | somiaj | so everytime firefox is run it should be put on desktop 2 and maximized, now the window manager needs to be able to identify what window firefox is so it can put the right window in the right spot per the user's confiragion |
| 05:24.06 | RodrigoBR | what I'm thinking is: if you customized everything, this customization is somewhere, or in the awesome dir, or in each program's dir |
| 05:24.23 | RodrigoBR | in the second case, awesome still has to know which programs are those |
| 05:24.30 | somiaj | well if in one relase firefox identifaction string was 'firefox 52' and in the next release it was 'firefox 62', the confiugration is broken, because the window manager will not be able to identify the window any more, since the program changed its name |
| 05:24.45 | RodrigoBR | oh I see |
| 05:24.51 | somiaj | so bolt would have to go manually reconfigure each and every window that changed its name in the custom config file |
| 05:24.56 | RodrigoBR | so it's not only updating Debian to 10, but every software |
| 05:25.00 | somiaj | for a few windows it might not be a big deal, for tons of apps it will |
| 05:25.47 | RodrigoBR | unless you're able to parse the names to extract just the basename, not the version. I think that's possible in a script, and not overwhelmingly hard |
| 05:25.53 | somiaj | I have the same issue when I upgrade my system, but I run about 10 apps max (90% of my work is in terminals and xterms) so it doesn't bother me to update a few things |
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| 05:26.48 | RodrigoBR | Have you tried adding this suggestion to awesome staff? |
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| 05:26.56 | somiaj | well what if the name changes are more distracstic than my example, but anyways, I'm surprised things change that much, but I don't run quickly evolving software |
| 05:26.58 | RodrigoBR | That's something every user will want |
| 05:29.35 | somiaj | I think the issue is less awseome, but the extreamly specialized setup this user has. https://xkcd.com/1172/ |
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| 05:30.10 | somiaj | and I agree I would avoid upgrading if I had to spend a good amount of time reconfiguring mysetup just to work |
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| 05:32.05 | qman__ | yeah, I was running ubuntu 12.04 well into 2019 for exactly that reason |
| 05:32.36 | RodrigoBR | https://xkcd.com/1172/ kkkkkk |
| 05:32.45 | RodrigoBR | exactly like that! |
| 05:33.27 | qman__ | I also use awesome, the problem there is that they have major breaking changes too frequently |
| 05:33.50 | qman__ | to the point where upgrading required essentially rewriting rc.lua, not even a simple find/replace or patch would do |
| 05:34.44 | qman__ | the documentaiton also leaves a lot to be desired from this specific issue |
| 05:34.45 | RodrigoBR | Well, I use most of my windows maximized, and I'm a big friend of Alt+Tab. That do it to me |
| 05:36.48 | qman__ | the window selection issue is real, too - certain apps just refuse to be managed by the window manager, they pop up on the "active" screen regardless of configuration |
| 05:37.01 | qman__ | it's infuriating |
| 05:38.03 | qman__ | unfortuantely I haven't found a better solution yet |
| 05:38.19 | qman__ | dwm is too elitist to have a configuration file, making it far too annoying to implement |
| 05:38.25 | RodrigoBR | I would like if the Open in terminal of Nautilus opened the terminal in the specified position of the configuration |
| 05:38.43 | RodrigoBR | someone told me I should edit Nautilus code |
| 05:39.07 | BazookaTooth | can't devilspie handle those edge cases that the wm has trouble with? |
| 05:42.37 | somiaj | qman__: I say use fvwm, it works great for me, though it isn't a fully tiling wm, you can configure almost everything and make it almost tile |
| 05:42.38 | qman__ | interesting, but I'm not sure how that could work with tiling window managers |
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| 05:58.49 | shtrb | Good morning ,is "sudo rsync -av -X -P /home /mnt/backup/" incorrect way to copy home folder with ownership preservation (/home/userX and all files have the proper ownership , but /home/userX/.ssh is owned by root ) ? |
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| 05:59.26 | shtrb | copying from ext4 to ext4 locally |
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| 06:01.57 | somiaj | shtrb: why is /home/userX/.ssh owned by root in the first place? |
| 06:02.29 | somiaj | shtrb: or are you saying /mnt/backup/home/userX/.ssh is owned by root but /home/userX/.ssh is not? |
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| 06:03.50 | shtrb | somiaj, no it wasn;t , that is why I'm asking |
| 06:04.21 | somiaj | that should preserve ownership just fine, so I'm unsure why it is not |
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| 06:04.31 | shtrb | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:04.49 | somiaj | is this backup ran as root? |
| 06:04.53 | shtrb | yes |
| 06:04.58 | shtrb | *sudo |
| 06:05.23 | somiaj | if you remove /mnt/backup/home/userX/.ssh and then run it again, the new directory gets owned by root? |
| 06:05.31 | shtrb | yes |
| 06:05.54 | somiaj | anyways, I have never noticed this happening, but I don't use -X or -P on my rsync commands, though I don't see why they would affect this. |
| 06:05.56 | shtrb | It's all subfolders for each user are owned by root in such case |
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| 06:07.07 | shtrb | If anything I recently install apparmor-extra-plugins, but I do not see any denied messages yet |
| 06:08.07 | shtrb | Also the users are logged in during the backup |
| 06:08.48 | somiaj | I don't see why -a is not preserving ownwership, though in my test (which did preserve ownership) I found I don't like mixing -v and -P |
| 06:09.29 | shtrb | it's just verbose and progress |
| 06:09.32 | somiaj | oh I guess it doesn't matter, maybe I experced somethign different from -P, but I doublt that is the issue |
| 06:09.50 | somiaj | yea, I was thinking progress would be a refreshing percent, but the verbose kept it scrolling |
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| 07:05.30 | ratrace | shtrb: --info=progress2 will give you overall progress, -P is just per file. -a should totally preserve ownership. Is this a mounted filesystem, perhaps somethign thta doesn't support permissions? fat? smb protocol? |
| 07:05.52 | ratrace | the target I mean. I see it's /mnt |
| 07:06.37 | shtrb | ratrace, it's ext4 (sata external disk connected over usb cable ) |
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| 07:11.21 | ratrace | shtrb: what happens if you just cp -a /home/userX/.ssh /mnt/backup/home/userX/ (after having removed .ssh from /mnt/backup/home/userX) ? |
| 07:11.50 | shtrb | same thing |
| 07:12.00 | shtrb | owned by root |
| 07:12.48 | ratrace | shtrb: that's absolutely impossible unless you're not giving us all info. there must be some protocol involved that doesn't know permissions, in sending files to that mountpoint. |
| 07:13.24 | ratrace | is this a linux system? is there a setuid on /mnt/backup/home/userX ? is THAT owned by root too? |
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| 07:15.07 | shtrb | Oh feces , I got help in a different channel , I was checking few seconds after the rsync and copy , I had been told I should run sync and after that the ownership was correct ! |
| 07:15.37 | shtrb | Thank you ratrace and somiaj , it was just me not knowing I had to wait little bit more and run sync |
| 07:15.50 | ratrace | wait for what? |
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| 07:16.40 | shtrb | I don't know , but waiting several minutes and running sync unblocked my case |
| 07:16.49 | ratrace | again, that doesn't make any sense |
| 07:17.01 | shtrb | it works now , and I'm happy :) |
| 07:17.07 | shtrb | Thank you ! |
| 07:17.23 | ratrace | that's bad though, because you have something there that's messing up things and you don't know what it is |
| 07:18.02 | ratrace | are you 100% sure that /mnt/... is not over nfs, smb or anything like thta, that would munge or remap permissions? are you in a namespce and observing ownership from outside? |
| 07:20.52 | shtrb | ratrace, /dev/mapper/backup on /mnt/backup type ext4 (rw,relatime) (it's over luks ) , I have no idea about namespaces but I had recently installed apparmor-extra (but no denied messages or anything in kern.log for now ) |
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| 07:21.18 | ratrace | apparmor is a MAC policy thing, it doesn't remap or change permissions in any way |
| 07:22.29 | shtrb | Does it matter if user has an active session ? |
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| 07:26.42 | ratrace | shtrb: it doesn't. also, what is exactly your rsync command? is there rsyncd involved perhaps that may change options? |
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| 07:27.01 | ratrace | actually, scratch that last, you cp -a failed too, you say. |
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| 07:27.20 | ratrace | *your |
| 07:27.47 | shtrb | brb |
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| 10:27.35 | Rozha | hallo need hellp |
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| 10:28.01 | Rozha | how to shut down X servis |
| 10:28.27 | trek00 | Rozha: usually CTRL+ALT+backspace closes the X server |
| 10:28.38 | trek00 | and all the applications running on it |
| 10:29.06 | Rozha | trek00 but from console |
| 10:29.33 | Rozha | debian |
| 10:29.58 | trek00 | Rozha: you can try as root this command that should kill any existing X server: killall Xorg |
| 10:30.23 | Rozha | CTRL+ALT+backspace |
| 10:30.31 | Rozha | not work |
| 10:31.20 | Rozha | maby command for close it ? |
| 10:31.37 | trek00 | Rozha: read my last message |
| 10:32.58 | Rozha | doesnot work |
| 10:33.09 | Rozha | maby some command init ? |
| 10:33.10 | trek00 | Rozha: what it prints? |
| 10:33.28 | Rozha | doesnot work ctrl alt |
| 10:33.35 | trek00 | Rozha: you can try as root this command that should kill any existing X server: killall Xorg |
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| 10:34.09 | Rozha | root@fromhell:~# killall Xorg |
| 10:34.09 | Rozha | Xorg: no process found |
| 10:34.28 | trek00 | Rozha: well no X server is running, may be it was a wayland session? |
| 10:34.47 | Rozha | maby |
| 10:35.16 | trek00 | Rozha: you should find the process name with ps or top |
| 10:35.26 | trek00 | Rozha: which desktop environment are you running? |
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| 11:48.15 | f8e4 | ss -l: prints tcp LISTEN 0 128 [::1]:postgresql [::]:* |
| 11:50.08 | f8e4 | can someone please have a look at ss-l output here https://bpaste.net/ZWWA, are all those ports local only or publicly exposed? |
| 11:50.52 | trek00 | f8e4: the ones that listen to 127.0.0.1 and [::1] are local only |
| 11:51.25 | f8e4 | so [::1] is ip6 version of localhost? |
| 11:51.29 | trek00 | yes |
| 11:51.41 | f8e4 | what about all the others eg [::]:41658 |
| 11:51.59 | f8e4 | localhost 127.0.0.0 ? |
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| 11:52.07 | trek00 | they listen to any address |
| 11:52.42 | trek00 | f8e4: 127.0.0.0 is the ipv4 localhost |
| 11:52.43 | f8e4 | so on the 3rd col awaiting from 4th col anyone |
| 11:52.58 | f8e4 | but [::] |
| 11:53.23 | trek00 | 0.0.0.0 and [::] are wildcards, listen to any address |
| 11:53.55 | f8e4 | so i am open in [::]:41658 and [::]:mdns |
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| 11:56.57 | brutser83 | following this example: https://libreboot.org/docs/gnulinux/encrypted_debian.html#booting-your-system < what would be the correct way to configure the cryptdevice for grub.cfg for a permanent boot setup? |
| 11:57.08 | trek00 | f8e4: this should tell you the process name who listen at those ports, you need to run as root: netstat -lpntu |
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| 11:59.00 | brutser83 | the parameter should normally look something like cryptdevice=/dev/sda:luksroot right? |
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| 12:00.46 | f8e4 | trek00 perfect, thank you. |
| 12:01.12 | trek00 | brutser83: may be this guide is better https://cryptsetup-team.pages.debian.net/cryptsetup/encrypted-boot.html |
| 12:01.17 | trek00 | f8e4: :) |
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| 12:03.46 | trek00 | brutser83: anyway you cryptdevice commandline seems correct |
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| 12:07.34 | trek00 | brutser83: if you have already configured using your link, follow it, they can't be mixed properly |
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| 12:09.04 | brutser83 | trek00: yea i just was checking the syntax of the cryptdevice= param |
| 12:09.32 | brutser83 | i think i got it, i don't need to use UUID, i can simply use /dev/sdXY:luksrootname |
| 12:09.42 | brutser83 | as long as that doesn't change |
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| 12:09.56 | trek00 | UUID and /dev/name are interchangeable |
| 12:10.16 | brutser83 | yes just since i encrypt it manually, there is no UUID available |
| 12:10.20 | trek00 | UUID are better when you add another disk |
| 12:10.23 | brutser83 | yea |
| 12:10.28 | brutser83 | but i won't for this system |
| 12:11.08 | brutser83 | just that tutorial i wrote, it was pointing cryptdevice to lvm root, which was weird, it works for some reason though |
| 12:11.26 | brutser83 | i guess debian just finds the root and then is happy |
| 12:12.24 | trek00 | brutser83: i think LVM volumes have an UUID and you can also the PARTUUID if i remember right |
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| 12:13.04 | brutser83 | trek00: yes but why would they put : cryptdevice=/dev/mapper/matrix-rootvol:root ? |
| 12:13.22 | brutser83 | that confused me |
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| 12:15.27 | trek00 | brutser83: i don't know, may be because they decrypt the root partition from grub? |
| 12:15.44 | brutser83 | yes but that is exactly what i am doing as well |
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| 12:17.49 | trek00 | brutser83: probably they decrypt root partition (containing /boot) from grub to read kernel and initrd, then the kernel needs to decrypt again the root partition to boot |
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| 13:22.52 | pileofstraw | 300 crashing machines update: apparently the solution to never have a machine crash is to configure crash logging on that machine |
| 13:23.11 | pileofstraw | i set up kexec/kdump on 10% of them and they are rock solid for days its driving me nuts |
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| 13:26.32 | oiaohm | pileofstraw: I have had something like that trace to a bad batch of ram. By setting up kexec/kdump I had allocated the bad area of ram causing problem to disappear. |
| 13:26.53 | oiaohm | That was 40+ machines with ram from exactly the same batch. |
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| 13:27.31 | pileofstraw | I would dearly love to figure that out |
| 13:27.36 | pileofstraw | IF ONLY ONE OF THEM WOULD CRASH |
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| 13:28.16 | oiaohm | pileofstraw: if it that bad ram and the kexec/dump setup allocated the bad area so nothing uses it the buggers are not going to crash. |
| 13:29.05 | oiaohm | Have you performed a multi pass ram test on any of them. |
| 13:29.26 | pileofstraw | Oh shoot I see what you are saying now. lol. |
| 13:29.56 | pileofstraw | Yes I have. memtest86+ pro, 50 passes for over 24 h |
| 13:30.03 | pileofstraw | on a handful of them that had crashed. |
| 13:30.07 | oiaohm | If it the fault I had it annoying as hell. |
| 13:30.32 | pileofstraw | Honestly that's not the worst, I could set up kexec/kdump on all of them and bypass the issue =) |
| 13:30.53 | pileofstraw | Can you specify the area of ram allocation in kexec? you could run a front-half back-half test. |
| 13:31.10 | oiaohm | I could not answer that one. |
| 13:31.32 | oiaohm | I found it in past by a multi pass memtest on one of the machines. |
| 13:32.21 | oiaohm | The issue I had was bad ram and 3 to 4 months latter a machine I had missed with the same ram from the same batch the complete memory cards gave out. |
| 13:32.58 | oiaohm | So setting up kexec/kdump to hide it may not be a long term move. |
| 13:33.41 | oiaohm | Ok when it ceases to hide the fault the fault should be simple to find. |
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| 13:39.13 | pileofstraw | So far I have no idea if the issue is ram, cpu bug, video bug, any of that. |
| 13:39.21 | pileofstraw | I am badly hoping to at least capture some data so I have a new avenue. |
| 13:39.30 | pileofstraw | and I can stop bugging everyone in this channel every couple of days |
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| 13:46.08 | zodd | pileofstraw, I assume you have a logserver and moniutoring setup and have ipmi/ilo/whatever in place? |
| 13:47.56 | pileofstraw | I do not. I would love to know if that is useful, though, given that no logs are written to the local machine during the crash. |
| 13:48.03 | zodd | indeed without data/measuring/logging/probing it will be hard to diagnose |
| 13:48.29 | pileofstraw | My assumption was that since nothing is written to kern.log, syslog, or X log it wasn't going to send something to my log server. |
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| 13:48.43 | zodd | If you are running that many machines that would be a good investment anyways |
| 13:49.28 | zodd | unless the problem is in disk I/O |
| 13:50.13 | zodd | besides that: monitoring should give you patterns which can be analyzed |
| 13:50.36 | pileofstraw | I have so-called external monitoring, these are all hooked into nagios |
| 13:50.40 | pileofstraw | I can see when they drop |
| 13:51.03 | pileofstraw | I just can't find any cause, yet. |
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| 13:51.27 | zodd | nagios is somewthing from the stoneage. Not very insightfull next to it stops working or not |
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| 14:00.06 | pileofstraw | zodd: regardless, do you have any reason to think that logs would be output to an external log server but NOT written to any local logging? |
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| 14:04.31 | zodd | no, not given the current insights. But the same is true for the opposite. What I would do: #1 think of differences between servers that have had problems and ones that did not (if any). #2 check ipmi/ILO/DRACS/etc #3 check monitoring services (do resources peak, when, why) #4 isolate one server and create a test environment in which you can enforce the problem. Can you do that consistently? etc |
| 14:05.40 | zodd | given my current view/knowledge of the situation your nick is striking. You are looking for a needle in a haystack. |
| 14:06.24 | zodd | I sincerely hope Nagios can provide some patterns/pointers |
| 14:06.26 | pileofstraw | These are not servers, they are NUC7i5BNK media players |
| 14:06.38 | zodd | aha |
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| 14:07.01 | zodd | temp issues? |
| 14:07.01 | pileofstraw | I cannot reproduce the problem under any circumstances that I have yet found. |
| 14:07.18 | brutser | can someone help me with encryption of the root fs on debian 10? : https://bpaste.net/INXQ |
| 14:07.21 | pileofstraw | Not that I can detect with lm-sensors, plus they're running in outdoor signs in Calgary so high temps are not realyl an issue. |
| 14:07.41 | pileofstraw | Of the 300 deployed machines I see 1-3 crashes per day at random. |
| 14:07.51 | zodd | cachingsize issues (unpacking/buffering streams)? |
| 14:07.53 | pileofstraw | So I believe it is a bug common to the entire platform as we have it implemented. |
| 14:08.08 | pileofstraw | I don't know how to check that, unfortunately. |
| 14:09.06 | zodd | running out of inodes? (should show up in logs) |
| 14:10.27 | zodd | pileofstraw, put a device under high load with a complex encoded large file to play while monitoring diskspace/memory |
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| 14:11.20 | joepublic | pileofstraw, I am curious what your output device form factor, size, and resolution is. (just pure curiosity.) |
| 14:11.34 | pileofstraw | iUse% via df --inodes is MAX 3% |
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| 14:11.47 | pileofstraw | this is during normal operation on a machine that has previously crashed. |
| 14:12.25 | pileofstraw | We don't really use complex encoded files, these are adplayers. They don't undergo massive load, they play jpegs and simple videos for the most part. |
| 14:12.33 | pileofstraw | But I am happy to test that on my bench |
| 14:12.49 | pileofstraw | joepublic: outputting to large format 1920x1080 LCDs |
| 14:12.57 | pileofstraw | ranging from 55" to 86" |
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| 14:14.18 | no_gravity | Good Afternoon |
| 14:14.40 | no_gravity | I wonder if Windows tablets easily can be used to run Debian. |
| 14:14.45 | no_gravity | Did anyone here try that? |
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| 14:19.34 | k-man | in gnome is there some way i can easily upload screenshots to an image pastebin like imgur? |
| 14:21.28 | Mathisen | k-man, you could just install something like xfce4-screenshooter it has option to save localy or imgur |
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| 14:25.38 | k-man | will that work under gnome? |
| 14:26.03 | hunter0one | Yes |
| 14:27.35 | k-man | ok, i installed but it segfaults |
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| 14:34.58 | brutser | if i do a dualboot with debian, how can i prevent debian thinking to use the swap partition of my first install when doing the 2nd installation? also LVM seems to get mixed up when doing dual installation, is that known? |
| 14:35.11 | zodd | no_gravity, depends on hardware and if the bootloader can be hacked. Check if someone reverse engineered your device and if not the answers is: maybe, but it will require a lot of work and knowledge and some luck |
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| 14:36.44 | no_gravity | zodd: I don't have a device. But I would buy one if I could install Linux on it. Unfortunately it seems information on it is very very sparse around the net. |
| 14:37.12 | joepublic | brutser, is there some reason you wouldn't want a swap partition to be used by whatever boots? |
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| 14:42.28 | brutser | joepublic: if you have an encrypted system, it's quite relevant to use the swap of that system (i.e. on the encrypted volume) |
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| 14:45.27 | cybercrypto | brutser: and your concern is about grub not being capable supporting encryption as yet? (like LUKS) |
| 14:46.03 | brutser | cybercrypto: no, grub can handle luks, that is not my concern |
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| 14:48.02 | brutser | cybercrypto: just i have a debian installation on the system and i want to create a 2nd debian system on encrypted volume, including boot - but when installing the 2nd debian system, it starts using the swap of os1 |
| 14:48.28 | brutser | also when i use LVM, i suddenly see swap lv of os1 end up as lv on os2, quite weird |
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| 14:51.04 | cybercrypto | brutser: i see. you want 2 debian systems running on the same hardware-host, full encryption, and each system using its own's swaps partitions |
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| 14:51.54 | cybercrypto | brutser: you name the lvm partitions differently for each OS1 and 2 and you confirmed that OS2 is botting using swap from OS1? |
| 14:52.27 | brutser | the LV's have similar names, but different volume group |
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| 14:57.42 | bt40 | Hi. After system update, suddenly my debian 10 takes long time to boot. 2 minutes. Is something wrong with systmd? Please guide |
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| 15:00.07 | PaddyF | bt40: poke /var/log/syslog for possible problems |
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| 15:00.43 | schreiberstein | Is it reasonable/safe to use "multistrap"? Is it still maintained? Or is there a probability that it will be dropped? |
| 15:02.05 | bt40 | PaddyF, IT IS SAYING FILE IS OF UNKNOWN TYPE. cOUND NOT OPEN WITH gEDIT. |
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| 15:02.42 | PaddyF | bt40: command line interface then :) |
| 15:03.01 | PaddyF | (maybe with sudo) |
| 15:03.10 | bt40 | ok |
| 15:03.30 | schreiberstein | multistrap looks like the best tool for the job. However, it is written in Perl and I do not want to use something that is unmaintained and potentially unfixable for me in the future. |
| 15:03.54 | bt40 | Unable to init server: Could not connect: Connection refused |
| 15:03.54 | bt40 | (gedit:2820): Gtk-WARNING **: 20:33:36.886: cannot open display: :0 |
| 15:04.11 | bt40 | is this problem with Wayland? |
| 15:04.25 | bt40 | I also can not open sudo nautilus in wayland session |
| 15:05.09 | Walex | bt40: "DISPLAY" and ":0" are X11 things. |
| 15:05.39 | bt40 | ok. so what is the problem here. please support |
| 15:06.24 | PaddyF | bt40: you need to find somebody who teaches you the basics of system administration |
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| 15:07.13 | PaddyF | with a bit of patience such a somebody shows up here |
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| 15:07.31 | bt40 | sorry..couldn't get how to get job done. Newbie here. |
| 15:07.55 | wsky | bt40: RTFM |
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| 15:10.22 | ratrace | That's really uncalled for. If you know which FM it is, please instruct by saying where the user can find more info. |
| 15:10.44 | ratrace | bt40: you can look up `systemd-analyze blame` to see where the boot process is hogged. |
| 15:13.10 | diogenes_ | watch out for wsky because here is the last message in #fedora: fedbot has kicked wsky from #fedora |
| 15:13.14 | ratrace | bt40: also, you can't run gnome applications with sudo. gksu is deprecated, so to open files that require root privilege (like /var/log/syslog) you need "admin:///path/to/file" URL given to, say, gedit |
| 15:13.38 | bt40 | ok thanks |
| 15:13.49 | bt40 | need to go go now, something urgent |
| 15:14.01 | ratrace | bt40: that said, you shouldn't open syslog files in a text editor like that. cat, less or grep are your best friend for logfiles |
| 15:14.17 | bt40 | ratrace, thanks PaddyF , wsky thanks |
| 15:16.06 | wsky | diogenes_: yeah, the fedops had experience with me |
| 15:16.42 | wsky | i think i'm still banned from #fedora-social |
| 15:16.49 | wsky | perma |
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| 15:18.04 | PaddyF | sends wsky a friendship request |
| 15:18.05 | ratrace | and you were banned from debian-offtopic too if I recall. you were under different nick tho :) |
| 15:18.26 | wsky | imports the request for further processing |
| 15:18.39 | PaddyF | further processing :) |
| 15:18.57 | wsky | well idk u bub |
| 15:20.05 | PaddyF | i dont know you either. but you have experiences in trouble making and ban taking |
| 15:20.43 | wsky | tbh i'm sometimes impulsive |
| 15:21.15 | wsky | not absolutelly flawless at all |
| 15:21.16 | schreiberstein | If a package is maintained by the Debian QA group (=> orphaned), does this mean it will not be supported anymore if it breaks? |
| 15:21.37 | wsky | wait |
| 15:21.45 | wsky | this is #debian not #fedora |
| 15:21.53 | PaddyF | yup |
| 15:22.05 | wsky | i had no sleep for last 30h pardon me |
| 15:22.10 | wsky | anyways, /topic |
| 15:22.15 | PaddyF | +1 |
| 15:22.36 | schreiberstein | wsky your name suggests intoxication. |
| 15:22.48 | PaddyF | maybe its short for white sky |
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| 15:22.59 | PaddyF | omph, sorry |
| 15:23.03 | wsky | PaddyF: winter* sky |
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| 15:25.55 | ajshell1 | I have a rather exotic issue. Debian (and Ubuntu) have an "apt" user that is a member of group 65534 (aka "nogroup"). |
| 15:26.00 | ajshell1 | However, I have an unprivileged LXC container where I have to do user and group id remapping, which involves remapping"nobody" and "nogroup" |
| 15:26.05 | ajshell1 | (as described here: https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Unprivileged_LXC_containers). |
| 15:26.11 | ajshell1 | This causes apt to no longer work in the LXC container. |
| 15:26.18 | ajshell1 | Can I change the group the apt user is a member of, or should I just use CentOS or Fedora instead? |
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| 15:27.37 | ratrace | ajshell1: id: ‘apt’: no such user |
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| 15:28.02 | ratrace | oh you mean _apt |
| 15:30.30 | ratrace | ajshell1: I suppose you can. Dunno if any paths would need to change ownership to reflect that, but I doubt it. nobody/nogroup shouldn't own any files anyway |
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| 15:32.56 | NetTerminalGene | ,v firefox |
| 15:32.58 | judd | Package: firefox on amd64 -- sid: 76.0-2 |
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| 15:33.04 | NetTerminalGene | ,v firefox-esr |
| 15:33.05 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch: 68.4.1esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.4.1esr-1~deb10u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.7.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster-proposed-updates: 68.7.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 68.7.0esr-1; jessie-security: 68.8.0esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-security: 68.8.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster-security: |
| 15:33.06 | judd | 68.8.0esr-1~deb10u1; sid: 68.8.0esr-1 |
| 15:35.08 | hisacro_ | I was setting up a system with netinst iso, I choose only xfce & system essentials after installation it came to ~1400 packages.. does choosing xfce installs debian specific other packages.. |
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| 15:35.48 | NetTerminalGene | hisacro, yes |
| 15:36.02 | ratrace | what are "debian specific other packages"? |
| 15:36.56 | hisacro | I was sure xfce-session doesn't require well not nearly more than 1000 |
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| 15:38.39 | hisacro | also It didn't include non-free drivers.. no wifi, touchpad, bluetooth |
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| 15:47.26 | hisacro | is there a wiki page specific to netinst DE install options? all I could find is https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/ |
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| 16:14.40 | ice9 | load is too high and cpu utilization is 100% however i'm not seeing processes utilizing that much in htop, any idea? |
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| 16:15.36 | zykotick9 | hisacro: FYI debian "main" doesn't have any non-free software, you need to look into the non-free (and possibly contrib) repos. |
| 16:16.01 | ratrace | ice9: ran htop as root? |
| 16:16.09 | ice9 | ratrace, yes it's as root already |
| 16:16.39 | ratrace | ice9: sorting by cpu usage? also, how are you measuring load and cpu utilization? |
| 16:17.57 | ice9 | ratrace, it's sorted by cpu usage; load average is 9 and cpu cores is 1; and the php application isn't responding |
| 16:21.33 | ratrace | ice9: load avg is affected by iowait states too, so check that as well. |
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| 16:23.13 | ice9 | ratrace, top is showing 0.0 wa |
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| 16:26.06 | ratrace | ice9: how are you reading load and cpu utilization? |
| 16:26.25 | ice9 | ratrace, from htop output |
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| 16:27.41 | ratrace | ice9: then htop's cpu% column should sum up . check if you're hiding kernel threads |
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| 16:35.33 | sawgood | Hi Debian pepole: in which release did Debian start using systemd .... (was it 6 or 7) by chance? |
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| 16:36.45 | annadane | 7, as an optional package |
| 16:36.55 | annadane | 8 when it became the default, i believe |
| 16:37.11 | ratrace | 'sright. |
| 16:37.33 | RadoS | What was the reason to switch? Can this be read somewhere? |
| 16:37.58 | sney | the short version is that sysvinit was deprecated and it was time to go to something more modern |
| 16:38.06 | annadane | https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/02/msg00294.html |
| 16:38.17 | sney | there are sheer *novels* worth of details (and flamewars) on lists.debian.org regarding that decision |
| 16:38.33 | annadane | that's... actually not the main mailing list message, there is one that exists, not sure if i can find it |
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| 16:39.36 | ratrace | annadane: the GR itself should contain all the reasoning, can't find the link now, googs is giving me the 2019 GR links lol |
| 16:39.50 | RadoS | annadane, thanks. |
| 16:40.43 | RadoS | annadane, don't stress it, that's enough for me to know. ;-) |
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| 16:41.25 | sawgood | right on, thanks: Debian 8 = start of using systemd |
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| 16:42.14 | RadoS | annadane, though I wonder why this followed up: "I would appreciate it if you could reply to self with signed mail re-stating this." |
| 16:42.27 | RadoS | Was there some deception/ sabotage going on? |
| 16:42.31 | annadane | no clue |
| 16:43.18 | annadane | this was before my time :P |
| 16:44.15 | sney | that whole discussion very quickly became chaotic, but that's still early enough that it's probably just a procedural thing |
| 16:46.50 | sawgood | Hey Debian pros: Since Debian 9 and 10: have no firewall starting by default and since UFW is now the new firewall process: do I have to do anything to install or use iptables other than turing in it on? |
| 16:47.43 | sney | no firewall by default has been a debian standard for a long time, because the user is expected to know if they need a firewall. do you need a firewall? |
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| 16:50.41 | sney | if you do: ufw is a frontend for netfilter. If you would rather use netfilter directly, that is fine. Netfilter upstream recommends that people migrate from the older iptables interface to the new nftables instead. |
| 16:50.42 | sawgood | sney: perfect, and I agree: but is iptables put on during an install of 9 using netinstall.iso |
| 16:51.08 | sney | iptables may or may not be installed depending on what tasks are chosen during the install. |
| 16:53.01 | ratrace | I see no reason to migrate from the iptables interface, since nft is likely to be come replaced by ebpf based firewall. |
| 16:53.22 | ratrace | I wish they'd make up their minds once for all and keep the interface regardless of backend |
| 16:53.31 | ratrace | which is.... what bpf can do, heh :) |
| 16:56.40 | sney | I firewall on separate devices as much as possible so I am mostly outside this conversation anyway, but iptables was 2.4 era tech and I'm honestly surprised it took this long to be supplanted |
| 16:57.18 | sney | I generally only bring up nftables when the person asking clearly doesn't already have a firewall on their machine. if you're starting from 0, might as well use the current thing. |
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| 16:59.28 | ratrace | right. |
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| 17:01.55 | sawgood | in CentOS: you can setup how iptables starts/loads with a file in /etc/sysconfig called iptables-config (does) Debian have that same type of process? |
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| 17:02.32 | ratrace | sawgood: yes, with `iptables-persistent` package (which is plugin to netfilter-persistent framework) |
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| 17:03.52 | sawgood | ratrace: wonderful: can you help me with this question; I have Debian 10 (Buster) running on 2 boxes, and I want to use iptables: they were build using netinstall.ISO (and) type= basic infrustructure server |
| 17:04.09 | sawgood | ratrace: what else should I add to these (2) machines to have a full netfilter / iptables process? |
| 17:04.34 | ratrace | sawgood: install the `iptables` and `iptables-persistent` packages |
| 17:05.29 | sawgood | ratrace: ok, but without installing anything: already don't I have the iptables package on the box? |
| 17:06.06 | sawgood | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:07.04 | ratrace | sawgood: dpkg -l iptables ... if it starts with "ii iptables ..." then it's installed. `which` won't find it unless you're root, because it's in /sbin/ that's not in unpriv user's PATH by default |
| 17:08.12 | sawgood | ratrace: yes: ii iptables 1.8.2-4 amd64 administration tools for packet filtering and NAT |
| 17:08.13 | sawgood | r |
| 17:08.29 | ratrace | so you have it. probably not iptables-persistent |
| 17:08.59 | sawgood | no I don't: adding now with apt-get |
| 17:09.40 | ratrace | sawgood: iptables-persistent works with files under /etc/iptables/ which you can manually use via iptables-restore and iptables-save (and ip6tables-restore, ip6tables-save) |
| 17:10.21 | ratrace | installing iptables-persistent will ask if you wanna save the current state, iirc |
| 17:11.18 | sawgood | ratrace: thanks again! |
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| 17:15.16 | sawgood | ratrace: I added: iptables-persistent package: and now I have a directory /etc/iptables with a file rules.v4 ..... but is there a file for iptables-config (which) show what iptables will do when it starts (not the filter rules) |
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| 17:17.23 | ratrace | sawgood: what do you mean "iptables will do"? it's only job is to manipulate the rules. the iptables-persistent framework makes sure /etc/iptables/rules* is loaded on boot |
| 17:18.44 | sawgood | ratrace: yes; got that part down: thanks: but in CentOS there is an additional file in /etc/sysconfig (called) iptables-config (and) cool things about iptables (and how it will start) (go in here) and you still have another file which store your rules when loading |
| 17:19.04 | sawgood | I'll pastebin the /etc/sysconfig/iptables-config file to show you what I mean |
| 17:20.40 | ratrace | sawgood: what do you mean "how" it will start? what kind of options are thre? otherwise, /etc/sysconfig is the old way for service configuratoin, before systemd. on debian, that's the role of /etc/default/ which are env vars sourced by service units, or used by init.d scripts if they don't have a systemd unit yet |
| 17:20.59 | sawgood | ratrace: can you view this: https://pastebin.com/ivSHd1Gh |
| 17:21.11 | ratrace | keep in mind iptables is NOT a service. that's why iptables-persistent plugin to the netfilter-persistent service is needed |
| 17:21.33 | sawgood | maybe that doesn't apply: since my CentOS box is 6 and using sysV and not systemd |
| 17:22.01 | sawgood | ratrace: thanks: got it: I'll always add: iptables-persistent |
| 17:22.01 | ratrace | sawgood: okay so that's some kind of centos-specific convenience service. if oyu want to specify modules on boot in debian, it's /etc/modules |
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| 17:22.14 | sawgood | ratrace: nice! |
| 17:22.47 | sawgood | For Debian: I'll use: systemctl enable iptables ... |
| 17:23.07 | ratrace | sawgood: it's all conveniecen though. you can always whip up your own systemd unit to do whatever you want with it, modprobing and managing /etc/iptables/rules* or whatever else. iptables per se does not have a service |
| 17:24.38 | ratrace | sawgood: so you probably mean systemctl enable netfilter-persistent.service, but you don't really have to. on debian, almost any package with a service (with some exceptions) will auto-enable and auto-start the service(s) upon installation |
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| 17:30.17 | sawgood | ratrace: cool: but I havn't run yet: systemctl enable iptables ... |
| 17:30.50 | sawgood | ratrace: I should right? If I want iptables.service to be running and loading the rules.v4 file ... at boot |
| 17:31.43 | ratrace | sawgood: no. that's netfilter-persistent.service. there is no iptables.service |
| 17:31.45 | sney | this line was just invisible I guess <ratrace> keep in mind iptables is NOT a service. |
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| 17:33.10 | ratrace | and again, you don't have to enable anything, it's enabled automatically upon installation. unlike centos where you had to. |
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| 17:35.38 | sawgood | ratrace: ok got it: so if one has the iptables package installed by default on Debian (different from UF@) ... then it started during boot: and all you have to do is add iptables-persistent |
| 17:36.29 | sney | you got the opposite of it, actually |
| 17:36.40 | dvs | yeah |
| 17:37.16 | sney | if you have the iptables package installed by default (it's recommended by network-manager so this is common) then you have the iptables utility, which lets you control the running kernel firewall rules. |
| 17:37.34 | sney | if you want something to "started during boot", *that* is what iptables-persistent is for. |
| 17:38.16 | sney | iptables itself is part of the linux kernel. it is not a service and has nothing to do with sysv or systemd. |
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| 17:39.26 | sawgood | sney: thank you ... so just add iptables-persistent and put in my rules then? |
| 17:40.09 | sney | yep! |
| 17:41.13 | sawgood | sney: since this is the case: iptables is part of the kernel: and it is running with no rules: why then: does Debian say by default UFW is the "new" firewall and it is off by default? |
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| 17:42.13 | ratrace | I'd say, since you have no idea how iptables works, you're better off with a higher level firewall like UFW or Shorewall |
| 17:42.28 | ratrace | firewalld is also available if you come from CentOS 7+ world |
| 17:43.18 | sawgood | ratrace: I do have a solid grasp of iptables (CentOS process), but as much Debian: I know how to make rules: etc ... |
| 17:43.30 | sawgood | no firewalld for me: I want iptables ... |
| 17:43.56 | sawgood | ah: UFW is a front-end for iptables (under Debian) got it ... sorry for bothering you so much about UFW ... |
| 17:44.31 | sawgood | UFW is a simplified firewall mechanism that is implemented on top of iptables. UFW is not as flexible but is easier to configure for common scenarios |
| 17:45.15 | cybercrypto | sawgood: I recommend you to read ipfilter.org (project website) and understand the moving forward architecture evolution. Iptables is not default in debian buster anymore (you can use it still, of course... but it will be replaced eventually). |
| 17:46.00 | cybercrypto | sawgood: UFW is just a 'front-end' to simplify the management of the 'firewall rules' for desktop users. |
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| 17:47.45 | sawgood | cybercrypto: no kiddin: I know iptables: just not how Debian uses it under 8/9/10, but I'm gaining on this very fast ... no need for me to read up on iptables, but thanks for the tip |
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| 17:49.23 | sawgood | I was confused: thinking: and I don't know why: that when CentOS switched to firewalld (and) around that same time Debian started using UFW: that UFW as a new firewall process (not iptables based) ... and that was my mistake |
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| 17:50.05 | hl521 | Hey, I'm tryin to install unifi to adopt a switch and access point, but it seems to be failing since it requires MongoDB <= 3.6.0, is there anyway to force installing mongodb of that version, or will I have to install it via dpkg? |
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| 17:50.22 | sawgood | BTW: you guys here are much nicer than the CentOS room at times ... what a difference! |
| 17:50.35 | cybercrypto | sawgood: UFW is a front-end. if you know iptables/ipfilter commands and sintax you dont need UFW at all. |
| 17:50.52 | sawgood | cybercrypto: right on, sir ... perfect! |
| 17:51.20 | sawgood | back in business Debian 9 / 10 using iptables and iptables-persistent |
| 17:52.44 | cybercrypto | sawgood: if you dont want to learn (dig commands iptables/ipfilter) you can still manage your own 'personal' desktop firewall using UFW with reasonable quality. UFW facilitate that for you. |
| 17:53.31 | cybercrypto | sawgood: I will not comment about firewalld and centOS (I dont have experience on that). |
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| 17:55.30 | sawgood | cybercrypto: going / learning / moving from CentOS 6 to 7 took a lot out of me, and for a while: I was sticking with CentOS 6, but now I have 7 built all day / night, and I'm gaining fast with Debian 9 and 10 skills |
| 17:55.46 | trysten | Do i understand correctly that _older_ versions of grub don't support raid metadata > 1.0? |
| 17:56.03 | trysten | And that newer versions should be able to handle it? Where is this documented? |
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| 17:57.17 | sney | that sounds like changelog material |
| 17:59.13 | cybercrypto | sawgood: visit the main project site, that covers the firewall for linux kernel in general (distro independent) https://www.netfilter.org/projects/nftables/index.html |
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| 18:00.41 | soft_concrete | hi, is it possible to add a static route for an interface that is using DHCP, in /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 18:01.27 | sney | yep, with an up command |
| 18:01.32 | soft_concrete | thanks |
| 18:01.38 | sney | 'man 5 interfaces' should have examples |
| 18:02.47 | cybercrypto | sawgood: you can go to the main page and check history to get a good overview about it. it started with iptables -> netfilter -> nftables. Lots of improvements and new features added. |
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| 18:25.36 | orb | [0m[33;29;5mI'm feeling ANSI.[0m |
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| 18:42.02 | ratrace | sawgood: firewalld is also a front end for ip/nf/tables |
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| 18:54.46 | trek00 | mbnt: you was able to remove those amdgpu-pro packages? |
| 18:55.08 | mbnt | trek00, that was a nasty thing you did |
| 18:55.39 | trek00 | mbnt: it needs to be fixed? |
| 18:55.57 | mbnt | You know exactly what you did |
| 18:56.33 | trek00 | mbnt: i could help you to fix the installation if you give me the error messages |
| 18:57.00 | mbnt | The worst part is it is my fault for trusting you |
| 18:57.16 | mbnt | If I just took a second to look at the comments, I would realize you were trolling |
| 18:57.32 | trek00 | trolling to post a link? |
| 18:58.30 | mbnt | Link that does not help, just the opposite. |
| 18:58.44 | mbnt | But you know all this. |
| 18:58.56 | trek00 | what was the error messages you got? |
| 18:59.05 | trek00 | i can't help without that |
| 19:00.12 | mbnt | I would ban you from this channel if I could. |
| 19:00.37 | trek00 | well.. good for you |
| 19:00.44 | sney | you guys ok? |
| 19:01.17 | trek00 | no issues for me |
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| 19:13.41 | ratrace | mbnt: what link? |
| 19:14.41 | mbnt | ratrace, He posted this: https://linuxconfig.org/install-opencl-for-the-amdgpu-open-source-drivers-on-debian-and-ubuntu |
| 19:15.06 | mbnt | ratrace, Look at the comments section, and the date. I did not. My fault. |
| 19:16.04 | ratrace | mbnt: and what was your question? |
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| 19:17.02 | mbnt | ratrace, It had to to with getting proprietary drivers to work on Debian for video editing/blender. Opencl is needed. You cannot get it in Debian. |
| 19:18.48 | mbnt | ratrace, Because there are proprietary drivers tied in with it, only very specific distros are supported by the developers. Even then, the supported distros have problems. |
| 19:19.08 | tomreyn | how about mesa-opencl-icd |
| 19:19.28 | BazookaTooth | mbnt: don't take your bs out on other people. trek00 is not a troll |
| 19:20.03 | mbnt | BazookaTooth, He is when he posts a bad, dated link with a comments section that also indicates as such. |
| 19:20.25 | mbnt | BazookaTooth, But this is my fault for not verifying first before implementing. |
| 19:20.48 | mbnt | BazookaTooth, Trust but verify, my problem was trust. |
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| 19:21.47 | ratrace | that's kinda contradicting. either you trust, or you don't and need to verify. |
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| 19:22.16 | ratrace | meanwhile, agreed with BazookaTooth, this wasn't trolling, maybe just inexperience. |
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| 19:23.12 | ratrace | this is all volunteer support on best effort basis. sometimes you get an expert, sometimes you get a less experienced answer but still willing to help. |
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| 19:24.41 | mbnt | ratrace, If you post a dated link with comments that indicate the 'solution' does not work, then maybe you should not post that link. |
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| 19:25.24 | mbnt | ratrace, Also, if that has to do with proprietary software. |
| 19:25.56 | tomreyn | it was probably not on purpose. either way, you chose to apply what was suggested on your system. |
| 19:26.55 | mbnt | tomreyn, that's the problem, isn't it? |
| 19:27.03 | mbnt | too much trust. |
| 19:28.21 | BazookaTooth | right... then if your solution would be to ban people that are helping you look for answers, it's probably a good thing you can't. besides this is the internet, where you should be using caution in the first place |
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| 19:29.50 | mbnt | BazookaTooth, channels are generally places where people who know give information. This is a bit more than not knowing, this is a piece of bad information. |
| 19:30.26 | BazookaTooth | why are you assuming everyone in this channel that speaks up is an expert? |
| 19:31.23 | mbnt | BazookaTooth, This is a very specific area of knowledge I would not expect someone to speak about if they knew what they were talking about. |
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| 19:31.52 | greycat | Let's see if the problem will go way on its own... |
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| 19:35.19 | pileofstraw | I've been speaking about stuff I don't know how to do properly for a week now, in here. |
| 19:38.00 | mbnt | pileofstraw, Sort of different from speaking about something you never implement for yourself. |
| 19:38.03 | sney | you can always tell whether I'm speaking from expertise or just trying to help figure something out by how much I use the word "probably" |
| 19:38.30 | sney | some people aren't as readable, but no free support from irc is guaranteed or warrantied in any way |
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| 19:38.49 | *** mode/#debian [-o greycat] by greycat |
| 19:38.56 | b1ack0p | i am on gnome classic. bluetooth icon doesnt show in top bar. how can i bring it? |
| 19:38.58 | pileofstraw | I think as multiple people have patiently explained to you, your expectations here are out of line with reality. |
| 19:39.11 | b1ack0p | as i know it suppose to show bluetooth icon there as wifi icon |
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| 19:40.39 | trek00 | b1ack0p: i guess bluez is running? |
| 19:40.54 | egrain | i'm sure you guys also have a debian splash screen for grub. where can i find it? |
| 19:40.59 | *** join/#debian stnly (~stnly@ns558423.ip-139-99-122.net) |
| 19:42.34 | sney | egrain: the stock one is in desktop-base |
| 19:43.23 | egrain | sney, that doesn't help me. i don't have debian. |
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| 19:43.35 | egrain | i just want the splash screen. i'm sure it's pretty. |
| 19:44.56 | sney | well, debian being a free OS, the files that are in the packages are available to you whether you're running debian or not. that one in particular is here: https://salsa.debian.org/debian-desktop-team/desktop-base |
| 19:45.13 | greycat | I should've told eir to wait more than the default time period on this one. Oh well. |
| 19:45.15 | sney | I believe there is also a page on wiki.debian.org for general artwork. |
| 19:47.11 | egrain | debian 10? no red snail house? |
| 19:47.23 | egrain | i guess i have to copy paste my own then. |
| 19:47.31 | egrain | sney, thanks though. |
| 19:47.48 | BazookaTooth | v, plymouth-themes |
| 19:48.04 | BazookaTooth | ,v plymouth-themes |
| 19:48.05 | judd | Package: plymouth-themes on amd64 -- jessie: 0.9.0-9; stretch: 0.9.2-4; buster: 0.9.4-1.1; bullseye: 0.9.4-3; sid: 0.9.4-3 |
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| 19:51.33 | egrain | wasn't sid the bad guy? |
| 19:51.39 | sney | yep |
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| 19:51.47 | greycat | !sid |
| 19:51.47 | dpkg | from memory, sid is the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys. The great thing about running sid is that when it breaks, you get to keep ALL the pieces!! |
| 19:51.53 | egrain | oh, unstable. |
| 19:52.16 | egrain | i'm sure there is a youtube video somewhere explaining how sid was actually the good guy. |
| 19:52.39 | egrain | oh, right i remember. because he was not hurting living things. how was he supposed to know that the toys were alive? |
| 19:53.02 | greycat | Even wanton destruction of property is not a good guy thing. |
| 19:53.22 | egrain | anyway, how do i find plymouth-themes of this sid character? |
| 19:53.30 | *** join/#debian jerry (~jerry@64.53.11.198) |
| 19:53.34 | greycat | ,depends plymouth-themes --release sid |
| 19:53.35 | judd | Package plymouth-themes in sid/amd64 -- depends: fontconfig, fontconfig-config, fonts-dejavu-core | ttf-dejavu-core, plymouth (= 0.9.4-3), plymouth-label (= 0.9.4-3), libc6 (>= 2.29), libplymouth4 (>= 0.9.2). |
| 19:53.47 | greycat | that does not look safe. |
| 19:53.50 | egrain | greycat, never seen the slowmo guys on youtube? |
| 19:54.16 | sney | there is no sid-specific artwork since sid isn't a release. |
| 19:54.39 | egrain | all i want is a the debian logo in a 640x480 picture with the correct colors so i can use it in grub... |
| 19:54.58 | greycat | Oh, well then, extract the .deb manually and move the files where you want them. |
| 19:55.05 | greycat | Just don't try to *install* it. |
| 19:55.51 | greycat | Download the .deb from packages.debian.org, and extract it with dpkg -x. |
| 19:55.51 | egrain | where can i find this .deb and is it called plymouth-themes? |
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| 19:56.04 | coruja | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/Artwork/Buster |
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| 19:57.01 | annadane | it took me the longest time to realize that sid takes precedece over stable in a sources.list so even if you install something that doesn't have a bunch of deps (though it's still a bad thing to do in practice regardless for various reasons) then it will start pulling other things from unstable... i think |
| 19:57.06 | annadane | i think that's correct, perhaps not |
| 19:57.18 | BazookaTooth | egrain: or just doanload the source https://packages.debian.org/sid/plymouth-themes |
| 19:57.24 | greycat | sid doesn't take priority over buster. 7 takes priority over 6, because 7 is greater than 6. |
| 19:57.24 | egrain | coruja, no offense, but they are all horrible. is there a debian 1 release logo? |
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| 19:59.11 | coruja | egrain, then maybe you want to take a look at https://www.debian.org/logos/ and try to make one on your own |
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| 20:00.01 | egrain | how kind of you guys, that you supply a version without the word debian. |
| 20:00.13 | egrain | by the way, do you guys sell t-shirts in baby sizes? |
| 20:00.22 | egrain | with the logo and the name on it? |
| 20:01.40 | jhutchins | egrain: We don't sell anything. |
| 20:01.56 | jhutchins | egrain: We are the debian user community, not a corporation. |
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| 20:02.27 | trek00 | Some vendors contribute a portion of sales of Debian merchandise back to Debian: https://www.debian.org/events/merchandise |
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| 20:44.58 | r3 | I am trying to pass either "--foo" or "" (nothing) to another command but " shuf -n1 -e '' '--foo' " has "shuf" complaining that it doesn't like "--foo" ... how do I "escape" that syntactically ? |
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| 20:46.16 | r3 | I even tried something like " shuf -n 1 -e "b" "$(printf '\x2D\x2Dfoo')" " with the same results :\ |
| 20:47.02 | greycat | What are you trying to do? |
| 20:48.30 | r3 | hmm, I think I can instead place those two options into a file, and have shuf read it from there rather than using -e on the command line :) |
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| 20:49.40 | greycat | shuf -e -- '' --foo |
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| 20:50.58 | r3 | thanks, greycat, that works, but I'm not sure I understand why? |
| 20:51.48 | greycat | because the manual shows you the synopsis |
| 20:51.51 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:51.59 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:52.00 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:53.11 | r3 | yes, I've read the man page for it (I wouldn't dream of asking in here if I hadn't first), but am not understanding why your solution works when shuf -e '' '--foo' doesn't |
| 20:53.38 | greycat | because you need -- to terminate the OPTIONs and start on the ARGs |
| 20:54.02 | r3 | OH! ok, that makes sense! |
| 20:54.22 | r3 | I wonder if I've used that in the past and not quite known what it does |
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| 20:54.55 | r3 | thanks a bunch for pointing that out!! |
| 20:54.57 | greycat | !-- |
| 20:54.57 | dpkg | [--] commonly the end of arguments delimiter for GNU or GNU like utilities. It disambiguates between a literal "--" and arguments. Eg, rm -- --help will remove "--help" from the current directory. |
| 20:55.13 | r3 | that makes perfect sense |
| 20:55.21 | r3 | !- |
| 20:55.21 | dpkg | well, - is this something later than 10-10-01 source ? |
| 20:55.50 | greycat | some commands use - to mean "stdin or stdout". cat and tar are two examples. |
| 20:56.25 | r3 | yes, I've done that before but was hoping for a nice explanation as with '--' :) |
| 20:57.51 | r3 | ...ah! which would be why 'su --' is the same as 'su' |
| 20:58.30 | greycat | su is a whole different animal |
| 20:58.45 | r3 | of course it is ;) lol |
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| 20:59.00 | greycat | env and su use "-" to mean something entirely different from "stdin or stdout" |
| 20:59.21 | r3 | I had noticed in the past that when I mistyped two dashes rather than the one, it didn't invoke a login shell after switching |
| 21:02.43 | r3 | problem with being a polymath autodidact is that there are occasional gaps in your knowledge - or it could be that I'm getting old and just didn't remember that tidbit :) In any case, thank you very much greycat :) |
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| 21:04.51 | greycat | one other thing you might need to store in your subconscious: in regular POSIX/Unix commands, the first argument that doesn't start with - will typically act as an implicit end-of-options flag. But GNU likes to "help" you by looking past that for other args that start with - |
| 21:05.27 | greycat | So a command like "ls -l foo -c" will successfully list files named foo and -c on Unix, but not on GNU. |
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| 21:13.42 | r3 | that's good to know, I will file that away :) ... however, I'm such a creature of habit that I never format my commands that way |
| 21:14.33 | greycat | on GNU you'd have to add the explicit -- yourself: ls -l -- foo -c |
| 21:14.53 | greycat | GNU will/may treat -c as an option, even though that violates POSIX |
| 21:14.59 | greycat | that's all I was trying to convey |
| 21:15.40 | r3 | very curious - thanks |
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| 21:35.09 | lowhope | Hi. I'm using the netfilter-persistent service to set iptables rules on startup. However, one rule mentions a nonexistent ipset which fails. What would be a good place to put the ipset command to create the set on startup before netfilter-persistent startup runs? |
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| 21:40.49 | tds | lowhope: look at ipset-persistent :) |
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| 21:43.29 | lowhope | tds: oh! Looks like that's on buster but not stretch? No wonder I didn't see it |
| 21:43.35 | lowhope | tds: thanks! |
| 21:43.49 | tds | ,v ipset-persistent |
| 21:43.51 | judd | Package: ipset-persistent on amd64 -- buster: 1.0.11; buster-backports: 1.0.14~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1.0.14; sid: 1.0.14 |
| 21:43.53 | tds | yeah |
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| 21:57.21 | Descriptioned | how i can fix "your profile can not be used because it is from a newer version of NW.js"? thanks |
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| 21:59.20 | sney | Descriptioned: context? |
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| 22:00.49 | Descriptioned | sney: i reinstalled a different version of a software, and i get this error |
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| 22:01.35 | sney | still pretty vague, but you probably need to delete the settings from the previous version you had installed, which may be in your home directory in either ~/.config or ~/.programname |
| 22:04.18 | Descriptioned | well i installed popcorntime |
| 22:04.36 | Descriptioned | the directory was /opt/popcorntime i already rm -rf the directory |
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| 22:16.17 | Descriptioned | sney: since im new, i cant find the location :/ |
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| 22:18.18 | sney | Descriptioned: ~ refers to your home directory. some files and directories are hidden by putting a . as the first character. open a terminal and do ls -a |
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| 22:36.07 | brutser | debian expert install, execute shell and cryptsetup luksFormat .. --type luks1 /dev/sda2 -> then cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sda2 luksroot and continued install. created LVM on it with only vg1-rootvol and vg1-swap -> no grub install, completed install and rebooted to grub, then tried: cryptomount (ahci0,msdos2) -> set root='lvm/vg1-rootvol' -> linux |
| 22:36.08 | brutser | /vmlinuz cryptdevice=/dev/mapper/vg1-rootvol:root root=/dev/mapper/vg1-rootvol quiet <---- this kernel line is failing i think, decryption works, then it says cryptsetup: luksroot: set up successfully, but then it keeps saying: 'Cannot process volume group vg1' |
| 22:36.23 | brutser | until eventually it shows initramfs prompt |
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| 22:37.51 | trek00 | brutser: may be cryptdevice needs to be = /dev/sda2? |
| 22:39.07 | brutser | trek00: let me try that now |
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| 22:40.03 | trek00 | brutser: or may be cryptdevice=/dev/sda2:rootvol ? |
| 22:40.29 | brutser | rootvol is the logical volume |
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| 22:42.18 | brutser | trek00: if i just remove cryptdevice= then the result is the same |
| 22:42.33 | trek00 | brutser: probably you are inside the initrd filesystem |
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| 22:43.18 | Maizum | clear |
| 22:43.28 | trek00 | brutser: reading https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Encrypting_an_entire_system#Configuring_the_boot_loader_2 it should be cryptdevice=/dev/sda2:vg1-rootvol root=/dev/mapper/vg1-rootvol |
| 22:43.30 | Maizum | list |
| 22:43.44 | brutser | trek00: ok let me try that one! |
| 22:45.18 | brutser | trek00: exact same result |
| 22:45.27 | brutser | Cannot process volume group vg1 |
| 22:45.35 | brutser | Volume group vg1 not found |
| 22:45.47 | brutser | and then eventually (initramfs) prompt |
| 22:45.57 | trek00 | brutser: if you open a shell, what lsblk prints? |
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| 22:46.27 | brutser | how to open a shell if system not boots? |
| 22:46.53 | trek00 | brutser: i thought there was an initramfs prompt |
| 22:47.10 | brutser | btw, it says: ALERT! /dev/mapper/vg1-rootvol does not exist. Dropping to a shell! |
| 22:47.22 | brutser | yes but initramfs not have lsblk |
| 22:48.06 | trek00 | brutser: can you do? ls -l /dev/mapper |
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| 22:48.14 | brutser | yes i was just doing that |
| 22:48.20 | brutser | it only show: control luksroot |
| 22:48.39 | trek00 | well it seems even not decrypted luks |
| 22:49.23 | brutser | but from grub i can ls / and it show the whole rootfs |
| 22:49.56 | brutser | i do " set root='lvm/vg1-rootvol' " |
| 22:50.01 | brutser | and after i do " ls / " |
| 22:50.06 | brutser | and it show rootfs |
| 22:50.25 | trek00 | brutser: grub and the kernel are independent |
| 22:50.30 | tomreyn | wouldn't /dev/mapper/luksroot be the decrypted device? |
| 22:50.40 | tomreyn | it looks like pvscan failed? |
| 22:50.50 | trek00 | brutser: grub decrypt the rootfs to read the the kernel and initrd, then the kernel need to decrypt the rootfs again |
| 22:51.02 | brutser | trek00: yea that's true |
| 22:51.37 | trek00 | tomreyn: may be you're right |
| 22:51.41 | brutser | tomreyn: let me check on that, what i did was debian expert install, then executed shell and encrypted /dev/sda2 with luks1 type - then installed the system on the LVM i created there |
| 22:52.20 | trek00 | well it luksroot should be decrypted, but lvm not loaded |
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| 22:53.22 | tomreyn | run "lvm" to get the interactive lvm console (if lvm is available), then "pvscan" |
| 22:53.44 | tomreyn | or "lvmdiskscan" |
| 22:53.51 | brutser | ok moment |
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| 22:55.10 | tomreyn | current grub2 also supports luks2 btw. but it's not in stable, i'm sure. |
| 22:55.42 | tomreyn | i think they merged it in february |
| 22:55.47 | brutser | tomreyn: yea, but i use some grub patches that don't work yet with v2.0.6 |
| 22:56.05 | tomreyn | i see |
| 22:57.10 | brutser | tomreyn: PV /dev/sda1 VG vg0 lvm2 |
| 22:57.13 | brutser | that's the only one it finds |
| 22:57.32 | tomreyn | and is it the right one? |
| 22:57.34 | brutser | no |
| 22:57.45 | tomreyn | what about lvmdiskscan? |
| 22:57.53 | brutser | that show: |
| 22:58.14 | brutser | -- /dev/sda1 <7.45GB] LVM physical volume |
| 22:58.25 | brutser | -- /dev/sda2 <7.55GB] |
| 22:58.28 | brutser | 1 partition |
| 22:58.32 | brutser | 1 LVM physical volume |
| 22:58.44 | brutser | it doesn't see the LVM i created on the encrypted /dev/sda2 |
| 22:59.02 | tomreyn | did you create /etc/crypttab before creating the initrd? |
| 22:59.12 | trek00 | try pvscan /dev/mapper/luksroot |
| 22:59.49 | brutser | trek00: command deos not accept argument: /dev/mapper/luksroot |
| 23:00.08 | trek00 | tomreyn: is there a way to scan a specified device? |
| 23:00.17 | tomreyn | pvdata |
| 23:00.46 | tomreyn | actually not, sorry |
| 23:00.55 | brutser | tomreyn: pvs show only /dev/sda1 vg0 |
| 23:01.09 | trek00 | pvscan --cache /dev/mapper/luksroot ? |
| 23:01.10 | tomreyn | pvck /dev/mapper/luksroot |
| 23:01.33 | trek00 | good! |
| 23:01.53 | brutser | crypttab i put: luksroot /dev/sda2 /etc/luksboot/key.bin luks,keyscript=decrypt_luks |
| 23:02.41 | tomreyn | brutser: what about the pvck? |
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| 23:02.58 | brutser | Device /dev/mapper/luksroot excluded by a filter |
| 23:03.23 | brutser | maybe i should explain (write down) on a pastebin, exact what i have done, it's not much, it's probably 1 minute read/write |
| 23:03.42 | tomreyn | hmm, does it only accept /dev/mapper/devicename_crypt there? |
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| 23:04.46 | tomreyn | maybe this could help, yes. although ti seems quite clear that the issue is with lvm not detecting the PV. |
| 23:05.10 | tomreyn | crypttab was a red herring, i think |
| 23:05.28 | tomreyn | because the decrypted device is there |
| 23:05.39 | trek00 | may be lvm.conf has some filter? |
| 23:05.53 | tomreyn | yes, that's possible |
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| 23:06.06 | brutser | sec guys, i just write down, it's 1-2 min |
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| 23:07.54 | tomreyn | file -s /dev/mapper/luksroot and stat /dev/mapper/luksroot may also help |
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| 23:10.59 | brutser | trek00, tomreyn: https://bpaste.net/SA7A |
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| 23:13.18 | brutser | stat /dev/mapper/luksroot -> File: /dev/mapper/luksroot -> '../dm-0' |
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| 23:13.39 | brutser | further relevant into: Access: (0777/lrwxrwxrwx) |
| 23:13.52 | trek00 | brutser: and file -s? |
| 23:14.05 | brutser | file: not found |
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| 23:15.28 | brutser | it's gonna be a dot or a comma i feel, like it always is |
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| 23:16.56 | trek00 | brutser: may be: cryptdevice=/dev/sda2:vg1 root=/dev/mapper/vg1-rootvol |
| 23:17.03 | brutser | why does " set root='lvm/vg1-rootvol' " work? this can only be when the volume group and thus lvm is accessible |
| 23:17.27 | brutser | trek00: ok let me reboot and try |
| 23:18.49 | brutser | ok interesting |
| 23:18.53 | brutser | when i rebooted |
| 23:19.02 | brutser | i do cryptomount from the grub console |
| 23:19.07 | brutser | then i just do "ls" |
| 23:19.13 | brutser | i find: |
| 23:19.38 | brutser | (lvm/vg1-swap) (lvm/vg1-rootvol) |
| 23:19.55 | brutser | that are the 2 logical volumes on the encrypted partition |
| 23:20.22 | trek00 | grub works, so the setup is ok, it's only the kernel commandline and/or initrd to be fixed |
| 23:20.23 | brutser | so that is also why set root='lvm/vg1-rootvol' works |
| 23:20.35 | brutser | trek00: yes sorry i got confused |
| 23:22.24 | brutser | trek00: your last suggestion, same issue still |
| 23:22.31 | tomreyn | are you ins the initrd again? |
| 23:22.36 | brutser | tomreyn: yes |
| 23:22.47 | tomreyn | do you have the blkid command there? |
| 23:22.56 | brutser | yes |
| 23:23.06 | tomreyn | if so, run it against /dev/mapper/luksroot |
| 23:23.37 | brutser | -- /dev/mapper/luksroot: PTUUID="xxxx" PTTYPE="dos" |
| 23:24.05 | tomreyn | thats an msdos partition table |
| 23:25.08 | tomreyn | so not an lvm pv |
| 23:25.13 | brutser | that should be it yes... |
| 23:25.34 | brutser | how could that be? |
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| 23:25.51 | tomreyn | or maybe it's an lvm pv which is not being detected with an msdos partition signature at the start |
| 23:26.07 | brutser | strange |
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| 23:26.33 | brutser | at what part of the instalation could this have gone wrong? |
| 23:26.41 | brutser | so then i will re-do all and pay extra attention |
| 23:26.50 | brutser | paritioning i guess |
| 23:27.08 | brutser | scripts i use do not much with that |
| 23:27.14 | brutser | oh wait.. |
| 23:27.28 | trek00 | brutser: debian installer can't do an encrypted root? |
| 23:27.49 | brutser | cryptsetup luksOpen ${luksdevice} luksrootmkfs.ext4 -m 1 -L root /dev/mapper/luksroot |
| 23:27.56 | brutser | i seem to format it before i create the lvm on it |
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| 23:28.01 | brutser | could that have created this issues? |
| 23:28.15 | brutser | trek00: encrypted root yes, but not with boot files in it |
| 23:28.22 | trek00 | ok |
| 23:28.39 | brutser | that format could that have created the msdos partition table? |
| 23:29.33 | tomreyn | formatting with ext4 wouldn't create an msdos partition table |
| 23:29.56 | tomreyn | but it could have been there previously, and maybe not overwritten |
| 23:30.02 | brutser | do i need a partition table on it? like it maybe is created automatic? |
| 23:30.11 | tomreyn | you should clean the superblock when creating a pv |
| 23:30.17 | brutser | ok |
| 23:30.27 | brutser | i am off to the start line |
| 23:30.30 | tomreyn | you don't need a partition table on a pv |
| 23:30.32 | brutser | this should be the reason 99% |
| 23:30.51 | brutser | thanks tomreyn and trek00 for finding this, if you still ehre in 30 minutes, i will confirm it |
| 23:30.52 | brutser | :) |
| 23:31.17 | brutser | is busy fixxxxing things... |
| 23:32.03 | tomreyn | pvcreate --zero (but it should normally happen automatically, see man page) |
| 23:32.24 | kryo_ | does anyone know of a list of debian-specific kernel options like this one? https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.10/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html |
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| 23:36.42 | trek00 | brutser: are you reinstalling? |
| 23:36.53 | brutser | trek00: yes restarted |
| 23:37.04 | trek00 | brutser: wait a bit |
| 23:37.21 | trek00 | brutser: if you create the root partition with then installer and then tweak only the grub config? |
| 23:37.41 | tomreyn | kryo_: there are some which are initrd specific, i think. i also think those are documented on the debian wiki |
| 23:38.11 | trek00 | brutser: it should be simpler (you just need to add cryptomount -p (ahci0,msdos2) and set root='lvm/vg1-rootvol') |
| 23:38.51 | trek00 | brutser: i mean create the encrypted partitions and volumes directly from the installer |
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| 23:39.11 | tomreyn | kryo_: see kernel-command-line(7) |
| 23:40.03 | tomreyn | maybe also bootparam(7) |
| 23:40.04 | brutser | trek00: yes i understand that part, but as you said, initramfs also must decrypt the rootfs |
| 23:40.22 | brutser | so just having grub decrypt it and set the root, that'll not be enough |
| 23:40.37 | trek00 | brutser: it could be only the kernel |
| 23:41.00 | brutser | trek00: what do you mean? |
| 23:41.02 | trek00 | brutser: well yeah, to don't ask two times the password sorry |
| 23:41.31 | brutser | yes this setup works for full encryption of root and boot files |
| 23:41.32 | kryo_ | ty ill look into it |
| 23:41.44 | jerojasro | I use debian bullseye, and I want to install emacs; but I see that it has rather ... massive dependencies: http://paste.debian.net/1145778/ |
| 23:41.48 | brutser | there was just some strange thing with the msdos partitioning of luksroot |
| 23:41.56 | jerojasro | any hints on how to trim those down? |
| 23:42.19 | sney | jerojasro: emacs is arguably an OS in its own right. it's normal for it to seem big on disk |
| 23:42.24 | trek00 | brutser: you should take a note about uuids of partitions, lvm and filesystemd |
| 23:42.45 | jerojasro | sney: it depends on mariadb/mysql stuff; I find that fishy, to say the least |
| 23:43.15 | jerojasro | and some tokyo cabinet thingy as well... |
| 23:43.19 | tomreyn | brutser: it's indeed interesting that the initrd got loaded fine rpreviously, since the initrd must be stored within the lvm from what i understand reading https://bpaste.net/SA7A |
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| 23:43.42 | joepublic | My day-to-day text editor does not depend on any version/fork of mysql, but then, it isn't emacs at the moment |
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| 23:43.51 | tomreyn | so grub succeeded in accessing it, but the initrd itself then fails to access the root file system due to not being able to identify the LBM PV |
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| 23:44.00 | tomreyn | *LVM PV |
| 23:44.10 | brutser | tomreyn: yea exactly |
| 23:44.59 | tomreyn | brutser: if that's an option for you i'd also suggest you name the decrypted device sda2_crypt |
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| 23:45.08 | jerojasro | joepublic: ahem. I just want to install it to install a vi-emulation layer to it, and install/use org mode there. Nothing else, for real ;) |
| 23:45.21 | sney | jerojasro: -common packages sometimes get pulled in as recommends. if you disable recommends, you might shave those off and the 14 or so KB that they take up. but there's no mysql server or client there |
| 23:45.22 | brutser | tomreyn: yes that's np |
| 23:45.22 | trek00 | jerojasro: may be you can try to install with --no-install-recommends |
| 23:45.33 | tomreyn | brutser: so that it will end up as /dev/mapper/sda2_crypt - just to make sure it's not some silly hardcoded pattern getting in xyour way |
| 23:46.08 | Deihmos | i set a program to nice -n 19 but i don't notice any difference |
| 23:46.14 | sney | jerojasro: you can always 'apt show packagename' to see what something is if you don't recognize it |
| 23:46.29 | jerojasro | trek00: thanks! the dependencies requested are much more sane now |
| 23:46.34 | Deihmos | i have been searching but can't figure out how to check to process priority on linux |
| 23:46.42 | trek00 | Deihmos: you should notice only when other processes are using the cpu (check with top) |
| 23:46.52 | Deihmos | ahhh |
| 23:47.03 | trek00 | jerojasro: :) |
| 23:47.08 | Deihmos | so it doesn't change level like it does on windows |
| 23:47.31 | trek00 | Deihmos: yes, but if no other processes are using the cpu, it will consume all what it needs |
| 23:47.32 | jerojasro | and actually, they add up to Eighteen Megabytes (to download), And not Constantly Swapping! |
| 23:47.35 | Deihmos | on windows if i set the priority to below normal the process uses a lot less cpu. |
| 23:48.25 | trek00 | Deihmos: if you set nice on linux, it will consume all the cpu if no other process are using that |
| 23:49.52 | trek00 | Deihmos: here a better explanation https://scoutapm.com/blog/restricting-process-cpu-usage-using-nice-cpulimit-and-cgroups |
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| 23:53.09 | brutser | tomreyn: do i create pv on /dev/sda2 or on /dev/mapper/sda2_crypt ? |
| 23:53.15 | Deihmos | it is interesting. |
| 23:53.40 | tomreyn | brutser: the latter, sda2 contains the crypto container/header |
| 23:54.36 | tomreyn | brutser: if it worked out it should look roughly like this: http://paste.debian.net/1145779/ |
| 23:55.43 | brutser | tomreyn: yes looks exactly like that |
| 23:57.32 | tomreyn | brutser: so that's different now |
| 23:58.51 | tomreyn | i.e. not "Device /dev/mapper/luksroot excluded by a filter". so this improved. |
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