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| 01:45.48 | annadane | not strictly a debian question i guess, but sort of yes, half-and-half; anyhow, those running wordpress, do they find it easier to install the debian wordpress package or do everything through their website? just because i notice wordpress pulls in a lot of dependencies |
| 01:46.14 | annadane | mariadb, apache, php |
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| 01:48.44 | jmcnaught | You'll need those things anyways |
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| 01:49.47 | jmcnaught | I have not used it in production but I have tried out the wordpress Debian package. From what I recall it has a multi-site feature that predates wordpress's own implementation. |
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| 01:50.52 | sney | I suspect most using wordpress in production install it from upstream, mainly because step 1 in securing a wordpress installation is making sure you have the latest version from wordpress.org. |
| 01:51.09 | sney | A lot of software claims this as a requirement but I actually believe it in the case of a web cms |
| 01:51.33 | annadane | define production... i was just thinking of using it for a simple blog |
| 01:51.56 | jmcnaught | I've only used it in a VM on my PC. |
| 01:52.21 | sney | annadane: in the case of wordpress, production means it's accessible from the public internet |
| 01:52.31 | sney | if all you want is a simple blog, there are a lot lower impact options |
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| 02:01.04 | annadane | what i should do is self host |
| 02:01.12 | annadane | i forget what you're meant to use for building websites |
| 02:01.20 | annadane | anyway, that's a "i'll do my own research" thing |
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| 09:29.45 | SimonB | Im running bullseye on a laptop, with LXQT DE. Can someone point me in the right direction to permanently setting the keyboard layout to something not en_US? /etc/default/keyboard has correct locale. |
| 09:30.00 | SimonB | I;m having to set it in lxqt settings everytime I boot currently. |
| 09:30.42 | SimonB | I know bullseye is not the stable branch, but im just after the appropiate config files to start looking into it. |
| 09:31.09 | SimonB | there is no layout set in /etc/xdg/lxqt/* |
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| 09:34.06 | ksk | SimonB: https://wiki.debian.org/Keyboard |
| 09:34.20 | ksk | "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configration" |
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| 09:48.29 | SimonB | ksk: thats also set to the correct locale |
| 09:48.40 | SimonB | As is dpkg-reconfigure locales |
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| 10:05.10 | taqu74 | hello |
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| 10:22.37 | cupcake90 | Anyone using thunderbird any solution or alternatives for xul-ext-firetray it is not working now |
| 10:29.10 | miskatonic | xul-ext stuff will never work again due to Mozilla's absurd changes in ff quantum |
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| 10:32.30 | ratrace | %s/absurd changes/effort to replace legacy, hard to secure code with new standards/ |
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| 10:52.22 | lembron | hu, am i blind or is there no direct way to install from usb while creating a mdraid-mirror for it? - how do i go about doing this? - first liveboot, create the md and then install "with skipping the formating" or something like this? |
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| 10:55.18 | simplicius | I'm expiriencing this bug with the program Avogadro https://paste.gnome.org/ponksuuu9 |
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| 11:33.02 | cupcake90 | miskatonic: They should nativly support such feature thanks anyway |
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| 11:34.42 | taqu74 | hello |
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| 11:40.59 | diogenes_ | Hey guys, what's the reason apt apt-utils was upgraded, any new vulnerabilities found? |
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| 11:41.53 | mesaboogie | diogenes_: https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/apt/+changelog |
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| 11:42.29 | mesaboogie | Published in sid-release 7 hours ago |
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| 11:42.52 | diogenes_ | mesaboogie, thank you! |
| 11:43.01 | mesaboogie | diogenes_: yw |
| 11:43.25 | dvs | got from sid to buster in 7 hours? that's fast! |
| 11:44.00 | diogenes_ | dvs, 7 is a magical number. |
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| 11:46.58 | joepublic | it can be made from 4 plus 3 OR 3 plus 4 OR 2 times 3.5, so it's also super-flexible |
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| 11:49.04 | ksk | !7 |
| 11:49.04 | dpkg | somebody said 7 was see sqrt(12345678987654321), or the standard port for ECHO, or this monkey gone to heaven |
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| 11:53.56 | annadane | (or debian wheezy_ |
| 11:53.57 | annadane | ) |
| 11:54.16 | annadane | look at me, ma. i'm programming. now i just need whitespace |
| 11:56.08 | JustASlacker | anybody knows how to setup openldap with SSL? |
| 11:56.19 | annadane | hexchat needs clippy or something spellchecking me, "did you mean to use bracket instead of underscore? i bet you did, you stupid idiot, fix it before hitting enter" |
| 11:56.21 | JustASlacker | wont work for me |
| 11:56.49 | joepublic | so far we have an "anyone" and a "doesn't work", not a very auspicious beginning |
| 11:57.01 | JustASlacker | -_- |
| 11:57.04 | JustASlacker | well, its ldap |
| 11:57.10 | JustASlacker | everything about ldap is bad |
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| 11:57.32 | JustASlacker | especially its error messages |
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| 11:58.10 | JustASlacker | ldap_modify: Other (e.g., implementation specific) error (80) |
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| 12:14.23 | damex | hi, i would like to add a symlink /dtb -> /lib/linux-${kernel_version}-arm64 on kernel update. what would be the correct debian way doing so? |
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| 12:21.30 | JustASlacker | managed to start ldap in debug mode |
| 12:21.35 | JustASlacker | got 'TLS: could not set cipher list DEFAULT.' |
| 12:21.38 | JustASlacker | fixed that |
| 12:21.43 | JustASlacker | going to the next |
| 12:21.52 | JustASlacker | should be raising pigs instead |
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| 12:24.06 | joepublic | if dev null is fast I will use it |
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| 12:30.14 | neoclust | is it planned to have php 7.2 in debian stretch or not at all and never ? |
| 12:30.56 | dvs | neoclust, probably never |
| 12:31.31 | neoclust | dvs: ok :) i will switch to buster then :-) |
| 12:31.34 | neoclust | dvs: thanks |
| 12:31.38 | dvs | np |
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| 12:40.59 | miskatonic | and backports seem to be frowned upon by certain people here |
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| 12:43.49 | dvs | I don't. I'd recommend backports |
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| 13:07.13 | CDuv | Hello, I wonder why old versions of an apt package are removed from official repositories. |
| 13:07.52 | miskatonic | is aptitude affected by the changes of apt? |
| 13:08.13 | CDuv | In a Dockerfile I was installing "git=1:2.20.1-2+deb10u1" just fine, but now, since version 1:2.20.1-2+deb10u3 is out it seems the previous was deleted. |
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| 13:13.17 | BalooRJ | Does anyone know if KMS works with proprietary NVidia drivers in Debian 10 for the purposes of getting Plymouth to work? |
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| 13:41.07 | brutser | i am in middle of installation deb10, now configuring LVM - i need some advise how to do this properly: i have 700G available, i was thinking of / root 30G , swap 16.6G, now i will use this system mainly for qemu-KVM, so i thought creating /kvmpool 300-400G and /home remainder. |
| 13:42.29 | greycat | One of the main reasons to use LVM is to leave a bunch of your disk *unallocated*, so that you can assign it wherever it needs to be used in the future. |
| 13:42.34 | brutser | would that be ok? normally kvm images are stored by default in /var/lib/libvirt/images - so I could also instead of /kvmpool just add /var as seperate LV and assign the 300-400G to /var ? |
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| 13:43.01 | greycat | If you allocate all of your space at installation time, there's really no benefit to having LVM at all. |
| 13:43.41 | brutser | greycat: oh ok, i am not that experienced, so what you advise me to do? i just thought of LVM of easier, so i just create one partition |
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| 13:44.14 | brutser | i guess there is no benefit, but still i can use it i suppose? or would that actually be a bad choice then? |
| 13:44.22 | greycat | If you want to learn LVM, that's great, and I definitely encourage that. Maybe allocate about half of your space, and leave the rest alone. |
| 13:46.40 | brutser | greycat: ok, so the vms and snapshots will take roughly 150G at the start (and will probably grow over time to 200-250G i guess) |
| 13:46.53 | brutser | so with the 700G available, how would you configure the LVM to start with? |
| 13:47.29 | greycat | You never what kind of system this is. Is it a general purpose desktop? A web server? |
| 13:48.43 | greycat | Is it a laptop or a desktop? |
| 13:49.11 | lembron | hu, am i blind or is there no direct way to install from usb while creating a mdraid-mirror for it? - how do i go about doing this? - first liveboot, create the md and then install "with skipping the formating" or something like this? |
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| 13:50.10 | brutser | greycat: it's a laptop with main purpose qemu-kvm and different vm's for developing / testing etc. - the host system is just there to provide the kvm |
| 13:50.51 | greycat | So that huge swap you wanted was to support laptoppy stuff like suspend or hibernate or whatever. |
| 13:51.05 | gp | I am trying to rebuild a source package (libfdk-aac-dev) on buster that doesn't seems to include the .a files to statically link against. I am using the upstream source but I would prefer to use the debian source and build with apt - is there any easy scriptable way to change the configure options? |
| 13:51.13 | brutser | greycat: yes i just followed debian's advise on the sizing for that |
| 13:51.33 | greycat | I don't know much about virtual machines. Are you thinking of allocating a bunch of space to hold VM disk images? |
| 13:51.57 | brutser | greycat: yes they get big in size very quickly |
| 13:52.05 | brutser | with snapshots and test vm's etc. |
| 13:52.08 | brutser | cloning |
| 13:52.30 | brutser | so that is why i thought of assigning roughly 300-400G of the 700G to it |
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| 13:52.36 | greycat | OK, so LVs for root, swap, home, and VM disk images. Figure out a basic starting size for those. |
| 13:54.34 | brutser | root 30G is advised by debian installer, swap 16.6G same, /kvmpool would have at least 200G to start with, /home just some space for downloads, iso's (for installation of vm's) - i suppose 100G is more than enough |
| 13:55.03 | brutser | greycat: but what would be the advantages for me to have the other space unallocated in such a simple setup? |
| 13:55.58 | greycat | You don't know whether you're going to fill up the VM disk image area first, or home first, or need to add a new LV for a big mysql database, or whatever may happen in the future. |
| 13:56.14 | greycat | Having space available gives you options. |
| 13:56.28 | greycat | You can also do snapshotting for backups, if you're into that. |
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| 13:57.09 | brutser | ok |
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| 13:57.23 | brutser | greycat: and what you do if the size available is exactly the size you need to start with? |
| 13:57.28 | brutser | then you never use LVM? |
| 13:57.35 | brutser | you can still add a disk i guess? |
| 13:57.39 | greycat | If you don't want to use LVM, then don't use it. |
| 13:58.10 | brutser | i am ok with using LVM, it looks more logical to me than creating partitions |
| 13:58.25 | jmcnaught | brutser: libvirt can easily use an LVM volume group as a storage pool, so you can use logical volumes for virtual machines instead of image files. Then you can grow each VM's storage as necessary, instead of a whole pool's size. |
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| 14:00.37 | brutser | jmcnaught: oh i never knew that was possible, it sounds a little complicated though for my needs? |
| 14:01.08 | brutser | i have already several qcow2 images that i will need to use to begin with |
| 14:03.13 | jmcnaught | brutser: it's not that complicated, just a different kind of storage pool under libvirt. LVM LVs for VMs should be faster than qcow2 images because there are fewer layers of abstraction before the actual disk is written to or read from. But if you've already got qcow2 images you don't want to convert then maybe not. |
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| 14:04.47 | brutser | jmcnaught: ok, i will google that and see what it is about, but i think the qcow2 images will be needed as such , at least several of them |
| 14:05.20 | brutser | as for the LVM configuration i wrote about, dedicating a logical volume /kvmpool is a good idea? |
| 14:05.39 | brutser | or would you just assign LV to /var and make that size fit the needs? |
| 14:06.06 | jmcnaught | Are you using libvirt? |
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| 14:06.24 | brutser | yes |
| 14:07.17 | jmcnaught | Then if I were using qcow2 images and wanted them on their own LVM LV I would mount it at /var/lib/libvirt/images which is the default place for libvirt to put image files. |
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| 14:09.09 | brutser | ok that makes sense yes |
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| 14:12.17 | Akuw | hi |
| 14:12.36 | Akuw | how can i see all service running started using svc ? |
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| 14:21.13 | *** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.4 point release /msg dpkg 10.4; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.12 ; 9.12 needs dist-upgrade | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 14:23.46 | Haohmaru | ,v kicad |
| 14:23.47 | judd | Package: kicad on amd64 -- jessie: 0.20140622+bzr4027-3; stretch: 4.0.5+dfsg1-4; stretch-backports: 5.0.2+dfsg1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 5.0.2+dfsg1-1; stretch-backports-sloppy: 5.1.5+dfsg1-2~bpo9+1; buster-backports: 5.1.5+dfsg1-2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.1.6~rc1+dfsg1-1+b1; sid: 5.1.6+dfsg1-1 |
| 14:24.26 | somiaj | I don't see why you can't do that with systemd, unit files have a StandardOutput and StandardError setting you can use to output to a logfile of your choice. |
| 14:25.08 | somiaj | https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html#StandardOutput= |
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| 14:25.37 | miskatonic | but are those human-readable? |
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| 14:26.05 | somiaj | they are the stdout and stderr of the command run, and will be text files |
| 14:26.10 | greycat | So your suggestion would be to create a FIFO, have systemd write the process's output to that FIFO, and hook multilog (or whatever) to the reading end of the FIFO? I ... guess that might work? Haven't tried. |
| 14:26.47 | somiaj | though with journalctl you can get all the logs human readable and not need to do this, but it is possible if you prefer to have text files |
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| 14:50.10 | strk | where would be a good place to post questions about debian packaging tools ? |
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| 14:51.15 | bomb | I'd say mailing lists strk |
| 14:51.57 | nkuttler | !mentors |
| 14:51.58 | dpkg | methinks mentors is the system the Debian project uses to train new people to become Debian Developers or Debian Maintainers and get their packages into the Debian archive. Ask me about <nmg>. http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/ http://mentors.debian.net/ #debian-mentors on irc.debian.org (irc.oftc.net). |
| 14:51.58 | greycat | The way the question is phrased makes me leery, because it sounds like they're not actually using Debian. But we'd need to see the actual questions.... |
| 14:53.03 | somiaj | strk: nkuttler: For debian packaging tools one should use #packaging on irc.oftc.net, #debian-mentors is for getting packages into debian. |
| 14:53.49 | somiaj | afiak #packaging is not debian specific, and about the build tools. |
| 14:53.53 | greycat | #debian-mentors is for trying to get a package *into* debian... #packaging is for general queries about building (third-party) .deb files for use by whatever you're using that's not Debian... #debian might be best for "how do I customize this Debian package for my own use" |
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| 14:55.24 | greycat | dpkg, packaging is also See the #packaging channel on <OFTC>. |
| 14:55.35 | greycat | ... |
| 14:56.47 | greycat | dpkg, packaging =~ s/See/Visit/ |
| 14:56.47 | dpkg | greycat: OK |
| 14:56.54 | greycat | dpkg, packaging is also See the #packaging channel on <OFTC>. |
| 14:56.55 | dpkg | okay, greycat |
| 14:57.04 | greycat | *that* was subtle! |
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| 15:00.21 | somiaj | I'd probably explicity state irc.oftc.net, but in releaity that won't do much good for those who don't read. |
| 15:00.40 | ThothCastel | Installed xrdp on deb 10 buster |
| 15:00.55 | ThothCastel | Unable to go paste the login screen |
| 15:01.05 | ThothCastel | Additional packages needed? |
| 15:02.21 | karlpinc | ThothCastel: Probably not. You need log messages, or debug output from starting xrdp from the command line, or some such, to tell what is happening.; |
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| 15:03.38 | sva | hello - debian used to have a "usb formatting tool" where one could eg format USB pendrives or create bootable pendrives eg for live systems etc. |
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| 15:04.28 | somiaj | sva: What is your use case. Debian .iso images do not need such a tool, as they are already bootable, and you can just cp/dd them to the usb drive. As such they aren't supported in debian. |
| 15:04.32 | sva | I cant seem to find it on buster - yes, I could use dd or penty of other command line tools - but I'd prefer to just have that little grafical app again that used to be there. any hints how to get that one? eg who was it named? |
| 15:05.09 | somiaj | the problem with such graphical tools is when they try to make the image bootable, they mangle the debian .iso, so using the tools is not suggested for debian's .isos |
| 15:05.18 | sva | somiaj: another live system distro is the current usecase, but eg also formatting etc from time to time |
| 15:05.23 | somiaj | anyways unetbootin was one that use to be in debian, unsure if any of the others are actually in debian. |
| 15:05.46 | somiaj | formatting just use mkfs, or gparted (a gui tool for manging partitions). I'm unsure if gparted can copy an .iso to a usb drive though. |
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| 15:06.17 | sva | somiaj: ah, unetbootin, thanks! (but there isnt even a package on that anymore?) |
| 15:06.31 | greycat | !unetbootin |
| 15:06.31 | dpkg | UNetbootin (Universal Netboot Installer) allows creation of bootable USB drives for a variety of Linux distributions. http://unetbootin.sf.net/ Not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>. |
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| 15:07.15 | somiaj | no one wants to maintain it, and the fact it breaks debian .iso images, just makes it more a pain to have than to not have. If you really want such a tool, install it third party, though it is useful to just learn to use more accepted tools (instead of ones that mangle the boot information trying to make something bootable) |
| 15:07.16 | miskatonic | ,v unetbootin |
| 15:07.17 | judd | No package named 'unetbootin' was found in amd64. |
| 15:07.35 | sva | okay... |
| 15:07.45 | somiaj | It was removed many releases ago, it was in debian for a few releases, but to many people used it on debian .iso and caused to many bug reports. |
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| 15:08.04 | jmcnaught | sva: GNOME Disks can format USB sticks for you, but it does not copy images to them or create live discs. |
| 15:08.10 | somiaj | anyways, I suggest looking at gparted, you may find that a useful tool for many things |
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| 15:08.39 | somiaj | If some other .iso needs to be made bootable, you may want to ask their support what tool they suggest using. |
| 15:08.52 | b1ack0p | hi |
| 15:08.56 | sva | ack, thanks for all the helpful info! I guess I should get used to the command line tools then. |
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| 15:09.01 | b1ack0p | is Sid still supported? |
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| 15:09.09 | b1ack0p | or older versions? |
| 15:09.09 | greycat | sid has never been "supported" |
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| 15:09.22 | greycat | !sid |
| 15:09.22 | dpkg | rumour has it, sid is the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys. The great thing about running sid is that when it breaks, you get to keep ALL the pieces!! |
| 15:09.41 | diogenes_ | you can use GNOME Disks to write iso to pendrive. |
| 15:09.42 | somiaj | sva: gparted is a gui tool, and jmcnaught mention of gnome disks is another such tool. |
| 15:09.42 | b1ack0p | huh |
| 15:09.54 | greycat | I strongly suspect you're mixing up names, or you're *very* confused about something. |
| 15:09.59 | b1ack0p | greycat: for old machine what can i use? |
| 15:10.05 | b1ack0p | older version of debian? |
| 15:10.08 | greycat | There are several 's' names, like stretch and squeeze. Did you mean one of those? |
| 15:10.08 | sva | somiaj: ack, gparted I know but as you said its not creating bootable sticks afaik |
| 15:10.21 | greycat | b1ack0p: what machine, exactly? |
| 15:10.23 | ThothCastel | karlpinc: thanks - a reboot seems to have resolved |
| 15:10.44 | somiaj | sva: you will probably find that most live .iso images are already bootable, so you don't need to do anything except copy them. But as I said, you might want to ask the support of the .iso in question what tool they suggest. |
| 15:10.58 | sva | ack, thanks! |
| 15:11.04 | b1ack0p | greycat: old ibm thinkpad x40-t40-x31 |
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| 15:11.31 | b1ack0p | i installed 32bit debian10 xfce on them but still struggling |
| 15:11.35 | somiaj | sva: in general I would not default to 'making an .iso bootable' unless the docs for the .iso say use tool X. gparted/gnome-disks are nice tools to manage drives, including usb drives |
| 15:11.42 | b1ack0p | slow booting and getting desktop |
| 15:11.49 | b1ack0p | slow turn on/off |
| 15:11.55 | b1ack0p | slow browsing ofcourse |
| 15:12.09 | greycat | I just googled "thinkpad x40" and it says "Intel Pentium M 758 / 1.5 GHz" ... if that's really a "Pentium" (586 class) CPU, then you'll need one that hasn't dropped support for 586 yet. |
| 15:12.17 | somiaj | b1ack0p: archive.debian.org contains all debian releases back to 2.0, if you want to use an old unsupported release. |
| 15:12.25 | b1ack0p | i just would like a system which is old but fast enough and read something on internet |
| 15:12.37 | b1ack0p | greycat: mine has 1.4ghz |
| 15:12.55 | greycat | Oh, debian 10 actually installed and worked? Hmm, then it must not be a real 586. |
| 15:12.59 | somiaj | b1ack0p: you are in a security nightmare there. You don't want to brose the internet with an inscure browser, and modern browsers are bloated and wn't install on old releases. |
| 15:13.04 | b1ack0p | CPU: Intel Pentium M 1.40GHz (1) @ 1.400GHz |
| 15:13.13 | b1ack0p | GPU: Intel 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device |
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| 15:13.22 | b1ack0p | Memory: 564MiB / 993MiB |
| 15:13.24 | greycat | If you're having video issues, then maybe you just need to figure out whether your video is supported in that version of Debian, and if so *how*, and if not, what your choices are. |
| 15:13.56 | b1ack0p | greycat: no video issues.. i know it is old machine but i would like a bit faster system |
| 15:13.58 | greycat | hmm, wikipedia says "The Pentium M is a family of mobile 32-bit single-core x86 microprocessors (with the modified Intel P6 microarchitecture)" so it sounds like a "Pentium M" is really a 686. |
| 15:14.02 | b1ack0p | like win2k-xp. |
| 15:14.20 | b1ack0p | i am not willing to watch netflix or youtube on this machine |
| 15:14.28 | diogenes_ | <b1ack0p> Memory: 564MiB / 993MiB ??? |
| 15:14.28 | greycat | also says "heavily modified version of the Pentium III Tualatin design" |
| 15:14.39 | b1ack0p | even i can watch low res youtube it is incredibly struggling opened more than 1 tab in ffox |
| 15:14.42 | b1ack0p | diogenes_: yup |
| 15:15.26 | miskatonic | i have no qualms with using an insecure browser |
| 15:15.36 | b1ack0p | this is specs: http://paste.debian.net/plain/1146734 |
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| 15:15.54 | diogenes_ | b1ack0p, in 2020 1 gb of RAM is nothing, it's an atom in the universe. |
| 15:16.06 | b1ack0p | diogenes_: i knoww :p |
| 15:16.27 | b1ack0p | but it is fun seeing this old machine working in 2020 :p |
| 15:16.33 | b1ack0p | and typing now |
| 15:16.43 | b1ack0p | cute little old machine |
| 15:16.52 | diogenes_ | and yoj still wondering why you're having a slow system? |
| 15:17.05 | diogenes_ | you* |
| 15:17.13 | b1ack0p | no i am asking if i can install old version of debian to have a bit faster system |
| 15:17.15 | greycat | someone needs to seriously trout-slap Intel for making their CPU names so damned confusing |
| 15:17.20 | b1ack0p | with support |
| 15:17.21 | somiaj | b1ack0p: memeory is probably the biggest issue, you may find a simple wm better than xfce |
| 15:17.39 | somiaj | b1ack0p: I already answerd that question, archive.debian.org, but you get all teh security holes too |
| 15:17.46 | b1ack0p | somiaj: well i can upgrade max 1.5gb on this machine |
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| 15:17.48 | b1ack0p | currently has 1 |
| 15:17.50 | greycat | The web browser is going to be the biggest issue there, when it comes to RAM. |
| 15:17.55 | miskatonic | ratpoison is infinitely much better than xfcewm |
| 15:18.11 | b1ack0p | somiaj: sooo it is risky using old version? |
| 15:18.16 | b1ack0p | so they are not supported anymore |
| 15:18.37 | b1ack0p | greycat: exactly.. when i click on ffox it opens in 20seconds something |
| 15:18.37 | greycat | stretch is still supported. jessie is still *partially* supported by the LTS team. |
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| 15:18.54 | b1ack0p | so one day this will stop support |
| 15:19.00 | b1ack0p | and maybe no more 32bit? |
| 15:19.02 | somiaj | b1ack0p: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch03s04.en.html 2gig is the recommended ram for a de, most likely you are hitting memeory limits and swapping, which is what is causing it to slow down. |
| 15:19.25 | karlpinc | b1ack0p: RAM usage/shortage is much more critical to performance than software version. If you're _really_ short on RAM you can build your own kernel. But it's usually better to find what's using most of the ram (the gui) and do something to cut down it's usage. |
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| 15:19.34 | greycat | I have not heard of any plans to drop the i386 arch in Debian. |
| 15:20.04 | b1ack0p | if i install BSD how will it be? same slow? |
| 15:20.05 | greycat | building your own kernel is not going to help noticeably with RAM shortage at 1 GB when trying to run a web browser and a desktop env |
| 15:20.26 | karlpinc | b1ack0p: Be sure to configure lots of swap so that unused memory can be set aside. |
| 15:20.29 | karlpinc | greycat: Agreed. |
| 15:20.35 | miskatonic | 9wm is even much smaller .. runs in half of a megabyte |
| 15:20.58 | b1ack0p | so i should forget DE on this little laptop |
| 15:21.02 | somiaj | b1ack0p: but I would ditch xfce and use some tiny window manager, strip down as many services and applications as you can, have enough swap for the idel stuff to live on |
| 15:21.07 | greycat | you could try running the raw web browser *without* a window manager, too |
| 15:21.35 | somiaj | b1ack0p: you might also want to look into light weight browsers, the browser can easily eat up all your ram because websites are built assuming modern hardware. |
| 15:21.39 | greycat | but certainly, this user does not sound sophisticated, so trying a regular, small, traditional WM first would be better |
| 15:22.00 | b1ack0p | what WM? |
| 15:22.11 | somiaj | I think there are some light wegith gtkwebkit browsers that take up less memory than firefox/chromium |
| 15:22.13 | b1ack0p | recommendation? |
| 15:22.29 | greycat | What did you use before GNOME and KDE and so on existed? Just use that. |
| 15:22.31 | somiaj | b1ack0p: i3 I think is one that works fairly quickly with out to much customization. |
| 15:22.40 | miskatonic | surf is a lightweight browser |
| 15:22.46 | greycat | (now they'll tell me "there was no such time, I am a newbie" and I'm like uggggh) |
| 15:22.54 | somiaj | haha gnome/kde have been around for 20+ years, some may not recall such a time they did not exist |
| 15:23.16 | b1ack0p | i cant even use gdm3 on my T41 |
| 15:23.26 | greycat | STAY the HELL away from gnome. |
| 15:23.39 | miskatonic | I remember when it was still fairly new, around 1997 |
| 15:23.45 | nkuttler | t41 sounds kind of underpowered for a "modern" desktop |
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| 15:24.09 | b1ack0p | is xfce fine then? |
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| 15:24.17 | greycat | 8sigh* |
| 15:24.38 | nkuttler | b1ack0p: i use lightdm + i3 on a t42, it's tolerable, but i can't say i turn it on often |
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| 15:24.58 | greycat | I use fvwm, but I'm an old codger. |
| 15:25.00 | nkuttler | maybe i'd need another room where the t42 is the only computer.. |
| 15:25.48 | jjrh | What does debian use for it's text installer menu? Is it just bash 'dialog' or something more fancy? |
| 15:25.50 | miskatonic | does a display manager still use memory when the logging in is complete? |
| 15:25.53 | b1ack0p | nkuttler: i just like old machines.. |
| 15:26.09 | greycat | jjrh: it's either whiptail or dialog |
| 15:26.17 | somiaj | b1ack0p: the browser is probably taking up more memory, but no a wm will be much lighter than xfce |
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| 15:26.34 | miskatonic | definitely whiptail |
| 15:26.38 | somiaj | b1ack0p: lxde is the lightest possible de, and a wm is often lighter than that (note a lot depnds on what software you run) |
| 15:26.56 | b1ack0p | what is wm? |
| 15:27.16 | greycat | A window manager. Like i3-wm, or fvwm, or blackbox, ... |
| 15:27.18 | miskatonic | openbox should be reasonably lightweight for a stacking wm |
| 15:27.48 | b1ack0p | somiaj: yea browser sucks about 300+mb ram |
| 15:28.05 | b1ack0p | current usage 275/993mb ram |
| 15:28.16 | b1ack0p | without browser |
| 15:28.18 | jjrh | Cool never heard of whiptail, thanks for that. I'm trying to see what the options are for doing menus and that sorta thing for bash scripts. :) |
| 15:28.26 | b1ack0p | if i open ffox it jumps more than 500mb |
| 15:28.44 | somiaj | b1ack0p: and that is just one tab, and some pages can easily use twice that |
| 15:28.52 | b1ack0p | yea |
| 15:29.04 | b1ack0p | i dont need javascript flash ..etc |
| 15:29.12 | nkuttler | b1ack0p: dillo isn't bad |
| 15:29.12 | b1ack0p | i just wanna google and read |
| 15:29.19 | b1ack0p | dillo what? |
| 15:29.26 | greycat | ,info dillo |
| 15:29.27 | judd | Package dillo (web, optional) in buster/amd64: Small and fast web browser. Version: 3.0.5-5; Size: 487.1k; Installed: 1540k; Homepage: https://www.dillo.org/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/dillo |
| 15:29.48 | greycat | if you "just wanna google and read", dillo might work well enough |
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| 15:30.24 | b1ack0p | yea i can try it |
| 15:30.41 | miskatonic | if javascript isn't required, w3m works well |
| 15:30.56 | b1ack0p | is it browser also? |
| 15:30.57 | greycat | I'm avoiding recommending any text web browsers to this user. |
| 15:31.00 | diogenes_ | palemoon is lightweight too. |
| 15:31.26 | miskatonic | isn't palemoon excluded for licensing issues? |
| 15:31.27 | greycat | pale moon is third-party, and I'm not sure whether it's Free |
| 15:31.28 | somiaj | diogenes_: uggg, I avoid that one, and it is just firefox, so I wouldn't say that lightweight. |
| 15:31.28 | b1ack0p | greycat: why? |
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| 15:32.13 | greycat | I don't believe you'll be happy using lynx or w3m or any other text-in-a-terminal web browsers. |
| 15:32.48 | somiaj | miskatonic: The browser is just firefox, so free, but the author won't let you use any branding unless you use the current upstream non-modified version, hence a nogo for debian (plus their devs just rubbed some people the wrong way) |
| 15:33.18 | b1ack0p | greycat: i used some terminal based browser and yes i was not happy |
| 15:33.22 | b1ack0p | difficult to use |
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| 15:33.34 | b1ack0p | dillo looks sweet and fast just installed |
| 15:33.43 | greycat | I installed pale moon because there was *one* specific web site where threaded comments only worked in old web browsers, not in modern ones. |
| 15:33.45 | b1ack0p | but xfce also slow |
| 15:34.07 | b1ack0p | i click on a panel item and it delays to open |
| 15:34.23 | b1ack0p | navigation also a bit laggy |
| 15:34.27 | greycat | We keep advising you NOT to use xfce or any other desktop environment. |
| 15:34.29 | jmcnaught | Midori is another lightweight browser in Debian. |
| 15:34.29 | b1ack0p | between menus ..etc |
| 15:34.43 | b1ack0p | i dont know how to use WM |
| 15:35.09 | miskatonic | i use luakit, about 3 MB per tab (plus the shared library stuff). |
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| 15:35.20 | greycat | Pick one, install it, and select it in your display manager's login menu thingy, if you use a display maanger. If you use startx, just do "startx mywm". |
| 15:35.43 | b1ack0p | which one is sweet old school look? |
| 15:36.04 | greycat | And/or configure the alternatives system to use your chosen window manager as x-window-manager. And/or write a ~/.xsession file to exec your chosen wm. |
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| 15:36.04 | miskatonic | opps 30MB ... 3MB would be fantastic |
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| 15:38.25 | greycat | I'm not sure your notion of "old school" would match ours. The original window manager would be twm. I don't know whether you want to go THAT old. |
| 15:38.52 | dvs | shivers |
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| 15:39.15 | greycat | I use fvwm, and have been using it for decades. That's pretty old. |
| 15:40.14 | b1ack0p | twm looks old like win3.1 :p |
| 15:40.25 | greycat | It's older. |
| 15:40.38 | greycat | X11 predates Windows 3.x |
| 15:41.55 | greycat | "Started in 1987 by Tom LaStrange, it has been the standard window manager for the X Window System since version X11R4." |
| 15:42.16 | PaddyF | i like the name. could have been one of my nicks |
| 15:42.16 | b1ack0p | what current systems using? x11? |
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| 15:42.32 | greycat | Debian 10 uses either X11 or Wayland. |
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| 15:42.40 | b1ack0p | yea ubuntu too |
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| 15:43.15 | b1ack0p | if i install twm or fvwm can i still use installed apps? |
| 15:43.22 | b1ack0p | libreoffice ..etc |
| 15:43.26 | greycat | "Windows 3.0, released in 1990" |
| 15:43.29 | annadane | why wouldn't you be able to? |
| 15:43.40 | b1ack0p | dont know |
| 15:43.44 | greycat | "Windows 3.1, made generally available on March 1, 1992" |
| 15:43.52 | b1ack0p | maybe they conflict or something each other |
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| 15:44.11 | greycat | b1ack0p: yes, you can use any app with any window manager or desktop environment |
| 15:44.13 | annadane | the package manager would tell you if it did |
| 15:44.15 | b1ack0p | greycat: just look is similar to 3.1 i mean |
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| 15:44.31 | diogenes_ | you can use your apps with plain x session. |
| 15:44.35 | b1ack0p | greycat: even current ffox? |
| 15:44.39 | greycat | Yes. |
| 15:44.48 | b1ack0p | so lets try twm or fvwm |
| 15:45.03 | PaddyF | just libreoffice does not fit into this context |
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| 15:45.17 | WoC | greycat, pre-release beta of Windows 1.0, actually fitted on one floppy ;) |
| 15:45.35 | WoC | (bootable) |
| 15:45.37 | miskatonic | so just running ff maximized with no wm underneath is not an option? |
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| 15:46.04 | greycat | miskatonic: I did suggest that earlier |
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| 15:46.51 | b1ack0p | i dont know how to run ffox without wm |
| 15:47.05 | b1ack0p | can i do that in tty-cli ? |
| 15:47.05 | greycat | The easiest way would be "startx firefox-esr". |
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| 15:48.33 | brutser | jmcnaught: yes ok, but the spice server on a local box, does it need the port and binding to the local address? |
| 15:48.49 | brutser | is that still used for communication between host and guest systems? |
| 15:48.52 | greycat | I wouldn't use that as a long-term solution, but it will give you an indication of how much of your performance trouble is caused by firefox itself, in the absence of ANY other apps. |
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| 15:49.22 | miskatonic | using .xsession has the advantage that Xsession already takes care of logging and other background processes |
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| 15:49.36 | brutser | jmcnaught: i ask that, because you can set Listen type: None - and i wonder what impact that has on the functionality of the spice server |
| 15:50.00 | brutser | in other words, what is the binding of the spice server to localhost used for? |
| 15:50.39 | brutser | i don't mind leaving it as default, but if it's not needed i rather not have it binding to localhost and opening port 5900 (and 5901 for tls) |
| 15:51.11 | jhutchins | Nothing that's not on that system can access that port. |
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| 15:54.05 | brutser | jhutchins: ok, that's at least good for my peace of mind :) but in general words, what is spice server using it for? |
| 15:54.24 | brutser | and would i get downgrade of performance if i set listen type: None? |
| 15:54.55 | brutser | that's a nice english sentence lol ^ |
| 15:55.04 | brutser | i hope you understand what i mean to ask ^ |
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| 15:58.42 | jhutchins | It's a pretty common method of inter-service communication. You'd have to delve into the docs for spice to learn why they chose that as the default. |
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| 15:59.44 | brutser | jhutchins: ok yes |
| 16:00.02 | kasbahh | hi |
| 16:00.13 | kasbahh | I got the following errors in dmesg: nouveau 0000:01:00.0: firmware: failed to load nouveau/nvc1_fuc084 (-2) |
| 16:00.27 | kasbahh | and [ 1048.705276] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: msvld: unable to load firmware data |
| 16:00.32 | greycat | ,file nvc1_fuc084 |
| 16:00.36 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 16:00.49 | somiaj | kasbahh: firmware-misc-nonfree contains nvidia firmware for nouveau (though it seems that firmware isn't included in buster) |
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| 16:00.59 | somiaj | ,v firmware-misc-nonfree |
| 16:01.00 | judd | Package: firmware-misc-nonfree on amd64 -- jessie-security/non-free: 20161130-5~deb8u1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20190717-2~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20190717-2; sid/non-free: 20190717-2 |
| 16:01.03 | greycat | Card too new? |
| 16:01.17 | greycat | ,file nvc1_fuc084 --release bullseye |
| 16:01.18 | judd | No packages in bullseye/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 16:01.21 | kasbahh | sudo apt-get install firmware-misc-nonfree |
| 16:01.50 | kasbahh | @greycat, @judd: already installed |
| 16:02.09 | somiaj | buster-backports has some newer firmware, you could see if it is there. Also sometimes firmware errors don't always mean you are missing firmware, some cards will try to use a chain of firmware files, so sometimes you see failed to load this firmware, but loaded next firmware just fine. |
| 16:02.26 | jhutchins | kasbahh: judd is our database bot |
| 16:02.50 | somiaj | kasbahh: check the dmesg lines under that one, it could be that some other firmware is actually loaded and that error doesn't affect your systems preformance |
| 16:03.11 | somiaj | or as greycat said it is too new a card, and you might be better served with the non-free nvidia blob. |
| 16:03.12 | kasbahh | somiaj: thanks |
| 16:03.26 | kasbahh | greycat: old card |
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| 16:04.01 | kasbahh | greycat: nvidia-detect proposes this one: nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver for GT 630 |
| 16:04.14 | kasbahh | greycat: so, this is old |
| 16:04.17 | greycat | ,file nvc1_fuc084 --release jessie |
| 16:04.20 | judd | No packages in jessie/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 16:04.25 | greycat | *shrug* |
| 16:04.58 | jhutchins | kasbahh: run lspci -nn and post the eight character pciid. |
| 16:05.42 | kasbahh | jhutchins: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation GF108 [GeForce GT 630] [10de:0f00] (rev a1) |
| 16:05.58 | jhutchins | ,pciid 10de:0f00 |
| 16:05.59 | judd | [10de:0f00] is 'GF108 [GeForce GT 630]' from 'NVIDIA Corporation' with kernel modules 'nouveau', 'snd-hda-intel' in stretch. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=10de:0f00 and the out-of-tree 'snd-hda-intel' module. |
| 16:07.21 | kasbahh | judd: latter is out of service .( |
| 16:08.10 | KendyChat | Is there any ircops online? I need help in the room #IRCRelay. Thanks and look forward to your help. |
| 16:08.58 | somiaj | KendyChat: This isn't the place to get the ops for a nother channel. You can see if any staffer's in #freenode want to interveen if you can't get ahold of the ops for that channel. |
| 16:09.29 | bolovanos_ | hithere - 10.1.44-MariaDB-0+deb9u1 Debian 9.11, I have coppied content of /var/lib/mysql to new mariadb installation location, I see databases, I can use database, but I cannot list data "ERROR 1932 (42S02): Table 'weather_checker.weather_list' doesn't exist in engine". Any clue? |
| 16:09.43 | somiaj | KendyChat: many rooms have bots or a -ops room you can use to alert/talk to the ops of the channel. |
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| 16:11.33 | jhutchins | bolovanos_: What you need to do is to dump the databases using mysqldump, then import them, then run mysqlupgrade to update the tables. |
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| 16:16.38 | bolovanos_ | jhutchins, hi - that is something I cannot do. Last version of db collapsed without possibility to revive it. No fresh backup is present.The only data I have are in /var/lib/mysql. So question is how to revive data with what I have. |
| 16:17.19 | bolovanos_ | log says "2020-05-14 17:45:05 139959663822592 [Warning] InnoDB: Cannot open table weather_checker_test/weather_list from the internal data dictionary of InnoDB though the .frm file for the table exists. See http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.6/en/innodb-troubleshooting.html for how you can resolve the problem." |
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| 16:44.11 | no_gravity | Is it possible to play a video without starting X? |
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| 16:44.47 | Urchin | no_gravity: afaik, there are some libraries that can do that |
| 16:45.19 | no_gravity | Urchin: Libraries. Hmm.. I was hoping for some command like "playvideo some.mpg" :) |
| 16:45.51 | Urchin | vlc may be able to do it |
| 16:45.55 | miskatonic | mplayer has a framebuffer backend, i think |
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| 16:46.32 | no_gravity | Wow, pretty cool. |
| 16:46.34 | no_gravity | I will try that. |
| 16:46.35 | Urchin | not sure |
| 16:46.35 | Urchin | I only half-remember stuff from years ago |
| 16:46.46 | flayer | what's some light-weight VPN servers available in debian? |
| 16:47.21 | flayer | preferably with IKEv2 support |
| 16:47.39 | cyveris | strongswan |
| 16:48.14 | fred`` | flayer: https://www.wireguard.com/ |
| 16:48.24 | cyveris | That's not IKEv2. |
| 16:48.36 | fred`` | 'preferably' |
| 16:48.56 | cyveris | Which is why I said strongswan. It meets the preference. |
| 16:49.18 | fred`` | my reason was on his 'light-weight' |
| 16:49.45 | flayer | thanks both of you |
| 16:49.47 | cyveris | strongswan isn't exactly a hoss. :P |
| 16:49.51 | fred`` | ok - maybe he need interop |
| 16:50.01 | cyveris | But yeah. Wireguard is great if you don't need IKEv2. |
| 16:50.10 | cyveris | I honestly prefer wireguard if that's not a requirement. |
| 16:50.28 | fred`` | had probs the first time configuring wireguard, because it was so easy :D |
| 16:50.30 | cyveris | If you DO need IPsec, strongswan is the way to go. |
| 16:50.38 | cyveris | fred``: Same. |
| 16:50.41 | fred`` | hrhrr |
| 16:50.55 | fred`` | openwrt/freeswan for ages . .. and then came wireguard |
| 16:51.01 | fred`` | eh |
| 16:51.04 | fred`` | *openvpn |
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| 17:09.12 | jayspeer | hello #debian, I have a problem with python3-distutils. apt says it has no installation candidate, which in turn makes it impossible to install some packages. How to go about this? |
| 17:09.37 | jayspeer | I'm on unstable if that helps |
| 17:11.37 | flayer | that definitely doesn't help |
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| 17:12.17 | flayer | apt is literally just telling you about the current status of your configuration |
| 17:12.24 | flayer | which is the result of being on unstable... |
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| 17:12.44 | jayspeer | so... it's impossible to install python3-pip on unstable now? |
| 17:12.57 | flayer | apparently |
| 17:13.18 | jayspeer | well, this sucks |
| 17:13.24 | annadane | !debian-next |
| 17:13.24 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 17:13.29 | annadane | jayspeer, ^ |
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| 17:13.46 | jayspeer | thanks! |
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| 17:21.09 | miskatonic | it is unstable for a reason |
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| 17:22.12 | jayspeer | I did not expect unstable to mean "sorry, package required for other package is gone :)" |
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| 17:24.17 | annadane | the nice part is stuff gets fixed quickly |
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| 17:28.19 | somiaj | most stuff |
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| 18:02.52 | brokencycle | Hi! I would like to configure a computer much like a kiosk system for a mentally handicapped person, but don't have much of an idea where to start. |
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| 18:03.08 | ksk | !kiosk |
| 18:03.08 | dpkg | kiosk is, like, /bin/su -c "/usr/bin/X11/startx" - kiosk (/usr/sbin/kiosk); kk:2345:respawn:/usr/sbin/kiosk (/etc/inittab); telinit q, or http://www.linuks.mine.nu/webkiosk/ |
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| 18:04.37 | miskatonic | that mentally handicapped person is Bill Gates, right? |
| 18:04.46 | brokencycle | no |
| 18:05.15 | greycat | That factoid has some issues. |
| 18:05.28 | brokencycle | It's a friend who fell (seriously) ill. |
| 18:05.30 | sney | that factoid looks about 10 years old, maybe more. |
| 18:05.41 | greycat | It definitely assumes sysvinit. |
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| 18:06.05 | greycat | It also has a deprecated path to startx, and that invocation of su is just horrible, and it should at least be referencing autologin .... |
| 18:06.08 | sney | I think the rpi people have good resources for stuff like this. Interfaces for kids (clumsy fingers, etc) can translate pretty well to the adult disabled |
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| 18:07.46 | brokencycle | sney: thanks - i'll try to figure that one out. |
| 18:09.24 | mwalle | hey, regarding the arm64 netboot image and device trees: is it up to the user how to get the device tree file onto a boot medium choosen by the bootloader? |
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| 19:02.42 | annadane | are there any security risks to giving virt-manager my host's internet connection as opposed to its internal network thing? |
| 19:02.47 | annadane | (very specific question, i know) |
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| 19:03.48 | tds | what do you mean by giving it the host's internet connection? bridging your VMs back to the LAN? |
| 19:04.16 | dvs | I assumed it was the private vs. public IP address |
| 19:04.44 | annadane | i have virtual network 'default': NAT (inactive) and host device enp2s0, which, yes, it's marked as bridge |
| 19:05.19 | tds | you should consider it as much of a risk as connecting anything directly to your LAN |
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| 19:36.54 | brieweb | sponix, I think it was I talked to about Xen? I got the server working. openvswitch is working, etc. |
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| 19:45.37 | f8e4 | how to find a folder called aaa ? |
| 19:45.46 | greycat | find . -type d -name aaa |
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| 19:46.10 | greycat | "d" for directory, which is what we call the things that contain files and subdirectories |
| 19:46.23 | f8e4 | thank you, i tested it. |
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| 19:51.13 | kristijonas | Wanna test out PGP on my Thunderbird (Debian Stretch), when I try to install the plugin, getting: enigmail : Depends: thunderbird (>= 1:52.0) but it is not going to be installed or icedove (>= 1:52.0) E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. |
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| 19:58.57 | tomreyn | kristijonas: you may need to install it from enigmail.org instead. |
| 19:59.48 | tomreyn | btw. GPG is not PGP (and the protocol is OpenPGP) |
| 20:05.37 | kristijonas | tomreyn, alright, managed to install it directly on Thunderbird through its extensions |
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| 20:09.06 | tomreyn | kristijonas: actually which version of thunderbird do you have there? |
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| 20:10.56 | tomreyn | all the thunderbird packages in stretch are at least version 52.9.1, so would have met these requirements. |
| 20:11.34 | tomreyn | maybe you have something else wrong in terms of package dependencies. use apt-forktracer (package and command) to identify foreign packages. |
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| 20:14.49 | kristijonas | tomreyn, thunderbird is already the newest version (1:68.8.0-1~deb9u1). |
| 20:17.41 | tomreyn | kristijonas: right,t hat's the latest. and should match enigmail's dependency on "thunderbird (>= 1:52.0) " |
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| 20:19.05 | dacencora | Hey guys, I am running Debian 10.4, and I want a newer Wine version than the one in the official repos, but in following the steps over at WineHQ, I run into an issue |
| 20:19.32 | dacencora | It says this when I try to install 'winehq-stable': |
| 20:19.32 | dacencora | The following packages have unmet dependencies: winehq-stable : Depends: wine-stable (= 5.0.0~buster) |
| 20:19.36 | dacencora | E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. |
| 20:19.44 | kristijonas | tomreyn, how do I use apt-forktracer? // bash: apt-forktrace: command not found |
| 20:20.08 | tomreyn | add a trailing R |
| 20:20.39 | annadane | dacencora, debian has a package missing that you need called libfaudio, let me find the link |
| 20:20.54 | annadane | https://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32192 |
| 20:21.07 | annadane | https://wiki.winehq.org/Debian for general info |
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| 20:23.21 | dacencora | annadane: cool that solved it, thanks! |
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| 20:27.59 | tomreyn | kristijonas: did it work with the R then? |
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| 20:30.49 | kristijonas | tomreyn, not really familiar with what trailling R is though |
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| 20:32.50 | tomreyn | kristijonas: the package you installed is "apt-forktracer", with an "r" character at the end. the command you then ran is "apt-forktrace", without an "r" character to the end. and this command does not exist, there only is "apt-forktracer" |
| 20:36.29 | kristijonas | tomreyn, the output: https://paste.debian.net/1146809/ |
| 20:38.06 | tomreyn | kristijonas: hehe, this looks pretty terrible. all those packages without [square brackets] on their line are leftovers, or were manually installed from an unknown source, get no updates ever. |
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| 20:39.58 | tomreyn | and those with a version number in (parantheses) which does not match any of the verison numbers in [square brackets] are foreign package versions, which also get no (security nor bugfix) updates and are from a forign source. |
| 20:40.18 | tomreyn | altogether, you got yourself into a nice dependency hell there. |
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| 20:41.13 | tomreyn | you should be uninstalling most of the packages without square brackets, and downgrading those with different version numbers |
| 20:42.39 | kristijonas | tomreyn, aha, alright, looks like something I should. As for next couple of days I planned to refresh my knowledge how Debian packaging system works. |
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| 20:45.56 | fuxxy | Is there a new 'pastebinit' package for debian that works? My version (1.5) only returns "failed to contact the server" |
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| 20:47.11 | greycat | pastebinit() { nc pastebin.com 9999; } |
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| 20:51.40 | tomreyn | greycat: did you mean termbin.com 9999 ? |
| 20:53.40 | kristijonas | tomreyn, trying to get what u wrote before, and how I'd delete those packages. Could you giive me an example? |
| 20:54.31 | greycat | yes |
| 20:54.44 | greycat | pastebinit() { nc termbin.com 9999; } |
| 20:58.25 | tomreyn | kristijonas: "fern-wifi-cracker" on line 14 is installed in version 2.2. there are no versions in square brackets on this line. this means you have no apt source configured which provides this package. so unless you know this package is compatible with your debian release (i.e. it BOTH works on it, and it doesn't depend on other packages which are not available, putting apt's dependency resolver into chaos) you should 'apt purge' it |
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| 21:00.08 | tomreyn | kristijonas: most of those leftover packages are probably remainders from a release upgrade. for example, you have several php5 packages still installed, but those are not in stretch. |
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| 21:02.23 | kristijonas | The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: |
| 21:02.23 | kristijonas | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:03.03 | dvs | kristijonas, delete all the packages first then run autoremove at the end |
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| 21:19.44 | annadane | if there's malware on a system, how easily can it access a plugged in external hd? |
| 21:21.58 | greycat | as easily as you can |
| 21:22.13 | annadane | that's what i suspected, just wondered if i missed anything obvious |
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| 21:24.48 | somiaj | there are some (though poor) protections. Such as browsers sandbox themselves and shouldn't be able to access files, but this may not count as on your system. |
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| 21:25.26 | somiaj | though I think the main proctection linux users have is being a small group that they aren't often targeted |
| 21:26.21 | sney | or at least, that the only thing targeted would be the browser itself |
| 21:26.42 | specing | no, there are 2 protections: |
| 21:26.46 | specing | 1) common sense AV |
| 21:26.54 | specing | 2) installs through package manager |
| 21:27.28 | somiaj | I was just mostly pointing out your system is fairly safe from scripts running in browsers due to sandboxing. |
| 21:27.42 | somiaj | though downloading/running them on your system would be diffrent |
| 21:27.44 | specing | annadane: for making backups, have a relatively isolated machine that pulls from all other computers. Most often this is done with rsync over ssh |
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| 21:34.42 | kristijonas | and what the main purpose of puring those packages that no versions in [square brackets] listed in the output of apt-forktracer? |
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| 21:37.50 | mi11k1 | is systemd bad? |
| 21:38.44 | mi11k1 | I don't know enough yet. i see lots of hate |
| 21:39.23 | dvs | oh boy! batten down the hatches! |
| 21:39.30 | mi11k1 | my system boots both, i have issues with different things either way. |
| 21:39.36 | sney | it's an init system that is significantly different from the 70s technology that debian used previously. |
| 21:39.49 | digdilem | no. but good or bad, it's what debian uses by default, so it's best to use it |
| 21:40.11 | sney | there are legitimate criticisms, but it generally works very well, and most of the criticisms that people *do* bring up are stupid conspiracy FUD |
| 21:40.30 | mi11k1 | ok. sounds good . update grub to boot it than, and iron it out |
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| 21:40.37 | sney | regardless it's an industry standard now so we might as well learn to stop worrying, etc. |
| 21:40.46 | mi11k1 | that's what i gather |
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| 21:42.44 | mi11k1 | i like red hat logo. that's about it though. articles say debian is highly advanced and difficult. even with a few years experience now on debian, i can't pick up red hat. |
| 21:43.54 | sney | debian is functionally indistinguishable from ubuntu for most day-to-day tasks, and articles say ubuntu is the "easy" one, so take that as you will |
| 21:43.57 | annadane | the "highly advanced and difficult" is probably people complaining their non-free wifi doesn't work |
| 21:44.00 | mi11k1 | that's where systemd originated i think, and has been adopted . i read a lot about arch, but never come across it |
| 21:44.08 | cyveris | Most Linux distros have 99% commonality. |
| 21:44.16 | annadane | the reputation of ubuntu breaking a lot doesn't sell me on ubuntu being "easy", either |
| 21:44.17 | cyveris | Very few true differences. |
| 21:44.35 | mi11k1 | ubuntu comes broken |
| 21:44.56 | mi11k1 | well, since the last few times i bothered |
| 21:45.11 | mi11k1 | their repos are messed and complicated . |
| 21:45.15 | cyveris | Given its prevalence, one would venture to say that that is not an experience shared by all. |
| 21:45.37 | cyveris | Their repos are almost identical in structure to Debian. |
| 21:46.11 | mi11k1 | the sources file has a bunch more |
| 21:46.33 | cyveris | Only because they feel the need to split out lines that could be combined. |
| 21:46.40 | mi11k1 | ohh |
| 21:46.54 | sney | ubuntu's main problem is bad user documentation and a lot of morons writing articles on the internet that give people bad advice |
| 21:47.06 | mi11k1 | yeees! |
| 21:47.12 | cyveris | sney: Facts. |
| 21:47.15 | mi11k1 | that's where to not look |
| 21:47.35 | sney | the system is fine, there are a lot of debian developers who are also ubuntu developers, and someone experienced in using one can use the other with little to no difficulty. |
| 21:47.41 | mi11k1 | sometimes i dip in and see what it sais |
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| 21:48.08 | mi11k1 | exactly, they are like of the same |
| 21:48.15 | mi11k1 | but more purple |
| 21:48.26 | cyveris | Ubuntu is a Debian derivative. That shouldn't be surprising. |
| 21:48.39 | mi11k1 | too some it is |
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| 21:49.20 | mi11k1 | i helped start an isp. we did it with debian |
| 21:49.42 | mi11k1 | edgerouter, proxmox |
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| 21:50.05 | mi11k1 | and lots of $$$ |
| 21:51.06 | ratrace | politely coughs and looks at the /topic |
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| 22:00.22 | wwilliam | what is this mean please doing scp? |
| 22:00.24 | wwilliam | stty: 'standard input': Inappropriate ioctl for device |
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| 22:01.29 | cyveris | What command are you entering exactly? |
| 22:01.52 | wwilliam | for x in 702588_NY_STMT_#10_002.PS.done;do scp PrismaDC:/u/CCDev/nypass/"$x" testtemp/"$x".tmp && cd testtemp/ && mv -v -- "$x".tmp "${x%.tmp}";done |
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| 22:05.48 | mi11k1 | lol |
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| 22:07.03 | cyveris | Not even going to touch that. That's a mess. |
| 22:07.26 | jhutchins | cyveris: He's gone anyway. |
| 22:07.43 | bomb | and probably took his town with it |
| 22:07.53 | bomb | *him |
| 22:08.03 | cyveris | jhutchins: Shows him still in the channel. |
| 22:08.24 | jhutchins | cyveris: So it does, two w's. |
| 22:09.00 | jhutchins | wwilliam: Try unquoting your variable. It means it's getting bad input. |
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| 22:09.40 | Meteorhead | hey people, I've setup debian but have some trouble with LUKS, thus, not mounting home, I didn't touch anything so everything is the default ones; fstab is the same UUID in crypttab |
| 22:09.43 | Meteorhead | https://imgur.com/a/JusVqrx |
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| 22:10.07 | Meteorhead | here's the error, sorry I don't even have GUI in my system |
| 22:10.20 | jhutchins | !luks |
| 22:10.20 | dpkg | Linux Unified Key Setup (LUKS) is a disk encryption specification with a platform-independent format. http://code.google.com/p/cryptsetup/ . To access on Microsoft Windows systems, see http://sf.net/projects/freeotfe.mirror/ and <ext2read>. |
| 22:11.42 | Meteorhead | jhutchins, thanks, wish the error messages were clearer though, it would help finding the right spots in the docs |
| 22:13.19 | wwilliam | jhutchins: Thank you the actual thing is *.PDF but at this time just wanted to test the for loop. |
| 22:14.02 | sney | Meteorhead: "failed to open key file" seems to be the important one. the rest are just the results of that |
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| 22:19.18 | Meteorhead | sney, thanks for confirming this, I'll follow this lead :D |
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| 22:24.40 | oxek | When I try to attach an .iso to virt-manager, I get the warning "The emulator may not have search permissions for the path '/path/to/iso'." |
| 22:24.44 | oxek | and indeed it does not |
| 22:24.47 | oxek | how do I fix this? |
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| 22:25.58 | sney | stick the iso in a world-readable but read-only directory, maybe? isos are ro anyway |
| 22:26.17 | oxek | the iso is in my home directory |
| 22:27.40 | oxek | I also want to store the virtual machine in my home directory |
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| 22:50.20 | jmcnaught | oxek: you can add a new storage pool in libvirt that points to a directory in your home, but the images you create in virt-manager are going to be owned by root and -rw------- |
| 22:50.54 | jmcnaught | oxek: I just put image files (including .iso) in /var/lib/libvirt/images |
| 22:52.02 | oxek | jmcnaught: my / is a very small partition :( |
| 22:52.31 | oxek | and /var is on / |
| 22:54.16 | mi11k1 | jmcnaught: proxmox |
| 22:55.10 | jmcnaught | mi11k1: ? |
| 22:55.16 | oxek | that was for me |
| 22:55.19 | mi11k1 | lib burt has a steep learning curve |
| 22:55.27 | mi11k1 | sorry autocorrect |
| 22:55.37 | mi11k1 | yah, sorry |
| 22:55.55 | mi11k1 | if you have barebetal checkout proxmox |
| 22:56.22 | mi11k1 | or just use virtual box |
| 22:56.40 | oxek | virtualbox is not in debian by default and I am told it is a pain in debian |
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| 22:56.49 | jmcnaught | libvirt's not that hard. |
| 22:56.50 | oxek | hence I went with qemu/kvm |
| 22:56.51 | mi11k1 | just go to site and do |
| 22:57.12 | mi11k1 | it's harder than virtual box |
| 22:57.36 | mi11k1 | proxmox is army/kvm and it's solid |
| 22:58.16 | mi11k1 | i've been using it for 2 years . if you can flick stuff in debian than you can run proxmox |
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| 23:11.44 | oxek | ok I think I got it working but I probably made a mistake |
| 23:11.59 | oxek | now all the folders/files in my home dir are world readable |
| 23:12.05 | oxek | probably not what I want |
| 23:12.07 | mi11k1 | Did you install dnsmask |
| 23:12.30 | mi11k1 | and add yer self to libvirt group? |
| 23:12.40 | mi11k1 | sorry on a phone. |
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| 23:12.48 | dvs | oxek, one chmod command can change that. |
| 23:13.00 | mi11k1 | chmod? |
| 23:13.14 | mi11k1 | adduser user libvirt |
| 23:13.17 | mi11k1 | i think |
| 23:13.28 | mi11k1 | in the simplist |
| 23:13.48 | oxek | I already was in the libvirt group |
| 23:13.50 | mi11k1 | virt-manager |
| 23:14.02 | oxek | as per the debian guide (which might be outdated) |
| 23:14.03 | mi11k1 | and virt-viewer for spice |
| 23:14.12 | mi11k1 | guides are good |
| 23:14.19 | mi11k1 | is it for stretch? |
| 23:14.25 | mi11k1 | the guide? |
| 23:14.31 | dvs | mi11k1, chmod -R o-rw $HOME |
| 23:14.37 | oxek | whatever is the version on debian wiki |
| 23:14.44 | mi11k1 | uhhh |
| 23:15.02 | mi11k1 | i don't know if that's something good or bad |
| 23:15.34 | mi11k1 | are you accessing with ssh and virt-manager? |
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| 23:16.02 | mi11k1 | do ssh-copy-id libvirthost |
| 23:16.14 | mi11k1 | or install askpass |
| 23:16.37 | mi11k1 | or enable allow ssh by root |
| 23:16.51 | mi11k1 | if it's safe to |
| 23:18.12 | mi11k1 | you'll probably lock yer self out too |
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| 23:18.42 | oxek | thanks for trying to help, I need to retrace my steps and see what I might have done wrong |
| 23:18.44 | mi11k1 | i always do if down interface.....oh shit.. |
| 23:18.46 | oxek | will take me a while |
| 23:19.40 | mi11k1 | do you know what lvm is? |
| 23:19.50 | oxek | yes |
| 23:20.01 | mi11k1 | what r u using for storage? |
| 23:20.19 | oxek | not sure what you mean |
| 23:20.58 | mi11k1 | Where do you plan on storing your VM data? |
| 23:20.59 | oxek | encrypted lvm running with mdadm on two SSDs |
| 23:21.11 | mi11k1 | are they mounted? |
| 23:21.17 | oxek | yes |
| 23:21.47 | mi11k1 | is there a file system on it? |
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| 23:22.01 | mi11k1 | where did you mount it? |
| 23:22.16 | oxek | it's what my home dir is on |
| 23:22.31 | mi11k1 | in the virtual-manager gui u can add it |
| 23:22.48 | mi11k1 | so it's yer homefolder? |
| 23:23.14 | mi11k1 | so make a folder somewhere on /home for the data |
| 23:23.24 | mi11k1 | if that's the plan |
| 23:23.38 | mi11k1 | i use zigs |
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| 23:23.55 | mi11k1 | zfs, on mechanical drives |
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| 23:24.31 | mi11k1 | you're going to want a thin pool |
| 23:24.37 | oxek | zfs is still not a first-class citizen on debian |
| 23:24.47 | oxek | so I am using ext4+raid |
| 23:24.54 | mi11k1 | doesn't matter. whatever floats yer boat |
| 23:25.02 | mi11k1 | i run it on bsd |
| 23:25.22 | mi11k1 | how much capacity 500? |
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| 23:25.42 | mi11k1 | oh, i guess u don't need thin with a cow |
| 23:25.58 | mi11k1 | qcow |
| 23:25.58 | joepublic | *on linux |
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| 23:27.45 | oxek | 4TB drives |
| 23:28.16 | mi11k1 | How much are those running now? |
| 23:28.24 | mi11k1 | ssd? |
| 23:28.31 | oxek | I got it for around 1kUSD each |
| 23:28.47 | mi11k1 | i want |
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| 23:29.11 | dvs | 1k? Holy crap! |
| 23:29.19 | mi11k1 | right? |
| 23:29.22 | oxek | not sure how much they are now, maybe more expensive due to corona? |
| 23:29.27 | oxek | it's samsung 860 pro |
| 23:29.31 | Meteorhead | sney, just came back, I actually solved the luks problem by removing the key file from the crypttab, now it works, thank you very much :) |
| 23:29.40 | dvs | I got a WD Black for just over $200 |
| 23:29.42 | sney | np |
| 23:29.50 | oxek | unfortunately it is SATA3 and not the nvme stuff |
| 23:31.24 | mi11k1 | i got a few 250s and 500 |
| 23:31.40 | mi11k1 | ones got errors |
| 23:31.46 | mi11k1 | brand new |
| 23:32.45 | mi11k1 | i use for dvr, so those aren't the best for my applications |
| 23:33.12 | sponix | brieweb: that is great. I actually have NO Xen experience. Was just trying to help anyway :P |
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| 23:42.36 | R0b0t1` | hi, am looking for some light debian dev help, is here ok? I wish to sbuild say, the base install packages and the top most popular 100 or so, and check their reproducibility for a variety of architectures |
| 23:43.10 | mi11k1 | umm, next guy |
| 23:43.22 | mi11k1 | i Have no idea what that is for |
| 23:43.34 | sney | R0b0t1`: #packaging on oftc might be more appropriate |
| 23:44.15 | R0b0t1` | FINE |
| 23:46.21 | R0b0t1` | thanks for pointer |
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| 23:48.01 | allorder | -+ |
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