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| 00:33.49 | VlanX | Hello! I am trying to downgrade my openssh version in Debian Buster but I dont know where to start. Could somebody help me out? |
| 00:34.51 | sney | !downgrade |
| 00:34.51 | dpkg | Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>. |
| 00:35.51 | fred`` | VlanX: why do you want to downgrade ? |
| 00:36.35 | VlanX | fred``: because there's a bug which prevents me to scp or rsync large files and I belive it's solvable with a downgrade |
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| 00:38.00 | fred`` | i dont think thats the cause |
| 00:38.25 | VlanX | fred``: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=912569 |
| 00:38.26 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/912569 in openssh-client (open): «openssh-client: openssh 7.8p1-1 and higher fail to connect to any host, "packet_write_wait: Broken pipe"»; severity: normal; opened: 2018-11-01; last modified: 2020-05-17. |
| 00:38.45 | fred`` | hmm |
| 00:38.51 | VlanX | hmm indeed |
| 00:39.01 | fred`` | i'm syncing 'huge files' with buster over ssh/Rsync |
| 00:39.10 | fred`` | no probs so far |
| 00:39.18 | fred`` | how huge are your files ? |
| 00:39.23 | VlanX | what virtualization technology are you using? |
| 00:39.28 | fred`` | none |
| 00:39.40 | VlanX | I am, that is the problem. No problem with bare metal |
| 00:40.19 | VlanX | By large I mean at least few hundred megs |
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| 00:41.02 | fred`` | mine are ~50gb+ |
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| 00:41.39 | fred`` | what cmd-line are you using ? |
| 00:41.50 | fred`` | for the actual sync - the rsync params |
| 00:42.16 | VlanX | I don't remember, I almost only tryed with scp |
| 00:43.49 | somiaj | Have you at least tried the suggested fix in that bug. Though I really think there are two different bugs going on there. broken pipes can occur for various reasons. |
| 00:44.19 | VlanX | also, the problem only happens after TCP spurious retransmissions |
| 00:44.51 | somiaj | so maybe a underlying network issue if you are tcp errors? |
| 00:45.00 | VlanX | somiaj: yes of course I tired and to no avail |
| 00:45.18 | fred`` | perhaps limit bandwith for testing |
| 00:45.25 | VlanX | somiaj: who cares? TCP is DESIGNED to be reliable even if your network sucks |
| 00:45.32 | fred`` | --bwlimit=xxxx |
| 00:45.47 | fred`` | maybe the counterpart has some 'dos protection' |
| 00:45.48 | VlanX | fred``: that didnt help either |
| 00:45.55 | fred`` | ah - ok |
| 00:46.00 | VlanX | no, I own both ends |
| 00:46.30 | VlanX | I'm up to install an old debian on both sides |
| 00:46.32 | fred`` | yeah - had provider which killed tcp after ~10 mins of full-banwith used |
| 00:46.35 | VlanX | let's see how this does |
| 00:46.39 | somiaj | well you can use snaptshot.debian.org to get older packages. |
| 00:46.49 | fred`` | and i also own both root-servers |
| 00:47.11 | VlanX | fred``: what I meant is that I own the hypervisors |
| 00:47.19 | VlanX | I'm not using a cloud provider |
| 00:47.56 | fred`` | thats all happening INSIDE the virtualization ? |
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| 00:50.28 | VlanX | fred``: yes |
| 00:50.54 | VlanX | infact, it works just fine if I do the same thing from hypervisor to hypervisor |
| 00:51.00 | VlanX | and they also run debian |
| 00:51.08 | VlanX | (Proxmox VE) |
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| 02:01.46 | asterismo_l | hi, i installed onlyoffice document server |
| 02:02.15 | asterismo_l | how do i restart the server? |
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| 02:03.37 | VlanX | shutdown -r now |
| 02:03.50 | asterismo_l | VlanX, are you kidding? |
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| 02:04.01 | VlanX | well you said server |
| 02:04.28 | asterismo_l | i meant the document server |
| 02:04.31 | asterismo_l | service |
| 02:05.24 | VlanX | maybe something like systemctl restart onlyoffice-fileconverter.service |
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| 02:06.53 | asterismo_l | Failed to restart onlyoffice-fileconverter.service: Unit onlyoffice-fileconverter.service not found |
| 02:07.42 | asterismo_l | shoud it be in /etc/system/systemd ? |
| 02:08.08 | jmcnaught | asterismo_l: "systemctl | grep -i office" |
| 02:08.27 | asterismo_l | outputs nothing |
| 02:08.46 | jmcnaught | asterismo_l: how did you start the document server? |
| 02:09.08 | asterismo_l | it started when i installed it |
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| 02:11.08 | jmcnaught | asterismo_l: try looking at "dpkg -L <package>" for the package that you installed, look for a .service file or an init script |
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| 02:28.25 | somiaj | asterismo_l: packages put unit files in /lib/systemd, user modifications are in /etc/systemd |
| 02:29.17 | somiaj | I also see no packages that contain that unit file, where did you install this service? |
| 02:29.25 | somiaj | I mean from where did you install this document server |
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| 02:32.55 | asterismo_l | https://helpcenter.onlyoffice.com/fr/server/linux/document/linux-installation.aspx |
| 02:33.05 | asterismo_l | the project has a debian repository |
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| 02:46.16 | somiaj | sounds like you should check their support for that package. |
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| 03:21.25 | Kurogane | Hello, anyone can help what wrong with this config https://bpa.st/raw/O63Q in boot process give me this error "Failed to start Raise network interfaces." yes interface exist. |
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| 03:23.41 | r3 | you mean other than having a duplicate line? |
| 03:23.51 | r3 | oh wait, my bad |
| 03:24.09 | r3 | what does 'ip link' tell you? |
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| 03:28.10 | dvs | Kurogane, you shouldn't have both "auto" and "allow-hotplug" on the same interface. |
| 03:29.22 | somiaj | you shouldn't need both, one or the other |
| 03:29.29 | somiaj | allow-hotplug will come up at boot if it is plugged in |
| 03:30.10 | somiaj | oh wait, that is what you said....I can't read |
| 03:30.53 | dvs | somiaj, ... |
| 03:32.24 | somiaj | Kurogane: you can debug a bit by using 'ifup ens1f0.346' on the command line and see if there are any errors, you many need to ifdown or ifdown --force the interface first. |
| 03:33.23 | Kurogane | So, what happen if cable not connect and later is connect? interface up? that is why i use auto and allow-hotplug |
| 03:33.52 | dvs | Kurogane, that's just allow-hotplug |
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| 03:42.12 | Kurogane | This is what give me with ifx commands https://bpa.st/raw/LAMQ |
| 03:42.44 | Kurogane | As you can see first IP is assign but not additional IPs because that error i think. |
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| 03:50.35 | somiaj | that is why I suggested the ifdown --force (sometimes needed to bring the interface down) |
| 03:54.28 | Kurogane | sorry don't hit me :( |
| 03:54.41 | Kurogane | Anyways, still error RTNETLINK answers: Cannot assign requested address |
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| 04:35.17 | r3 | Kurogane: try 'sudo ip addr flush dev ens1f0.346' before ifup or ifdown |
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| 04:48.44 | r3 | Kurogane: and maybe see if you have the package 'zeroconf' (or similar?) installed - if you can, remove it and then try again. |
| 04:51.20 | Kurogane | I'm still in this issue i advanced a little. I notice something, i think is dad issue this is what i found https://bpa.st/raw/Z65Q |
| 04:51.22 | Kurogane | When i do "ifdown ens1f0.346 --force ; ifup ens1f0.346" work, not sure why on boot can't configure network and why DAD is falling |
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| 04:56.02 | r3 | hmm... I've no experience with DAD - sorry ... I did find [ https://www.the-art-of-web.com/system/ipv6-dad-tentative/ ] |
| 04:57.33 | r3 | says you could try the following: disabling dad, or waiting for a fixed interval, or waiting for the ipv6 state to change |
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| 05:03.26 | Kurogane | but how? :D |
| 05:05.16 | somiaj | Kurogane: have you removed the uneeded auto line and the second entry? |
| 05:05.42 | bomb | I don't have much memories with dad either |
| 05:06.43 | Kurogane | somiaj, yes both, auto and allow-hotplug with combinations and not work |
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| 05:08.33 | r3 | Kurogane: that link I provided shows you how? |
| 05:08.59 | r3 | oh er, that was for apache, I'm sorry |
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| 05:11.15 | r3 | Kurogane: from here [ https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/beware_the_ipv6_dad_race_condition ] I found ... placing in your interface "pre-up echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/ens1f0.346/accept_dad" try that? |
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| 05:13.07 | r3 | at least just to see if it is DAD causing the issue - |
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| 05:31.54 | Kurogane | is work but not work.. at least network is up but services web, db etc fail because network is not ready until about 1min later |
| 05:32.46 | RetroRudie | just out of curiosity - what is "dad"? |
| 05:33.18 | flayer | bomb, ha ha ha ha |
| 05:33.42 | r3 | IPv6's Duplicate Address Detection (DAD) |
| 05:33.57 | RetroRudie | thanks |
| 05:34.56 | r3 | Kurogane: so you can put in a delay in the interface config as well: "post-up sleep 10" or you can watch for the state to change: "post-up while [ $(ip addr show eth0 | grep -c tentative) -ne 0 ]; do echo "IPv6 post-up tentative"; sleep 1; done" |
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| 05:35.39 | somiaj | are ipv6 services not able to listen on a wild card like 0.0.0.0 -- so it doesn't matter if the ip is ready when the service is active or not? |
| 05:35.49 | r3 | that's exactly the issue that first link I sent you covered, his web and services were also failing |
| 05:37.53 | r3 | somiaj: from what I understand : "Duplicate address detection is performed first on a new, link-local IPv6 address before the address is assigned to an interface (the new address remains in a tentative state while duplicate address detection is performed)" |
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| 05:38.18 | r3 | Every IPv6 unicast address (global or link-local) must be verified for uniqueness on the link; however, until the uniqueness of the link-local address is verified, duplicate address detection is not performed on any other IPv6 addresses associated with the link-local address. |
| 05:38.44 | somiaj | I haven't used ipv6, I'm just use to ipv4 where many services listen on 0.0.0.0 and aren't tied to the interface being up. |
| 05:38.58 | r3 | yeah, it is done differently in 6 |
| 05:38.59 | somiaj | So was courious if ipv6 had soemthign similar |
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| 05:39.12 | OS-80291 | #offsec |
| 05:39.14 | r3 | I'm not sure - I kinda doubt it |
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| 05:41.13 | Kurogane | somiaj, not, because i use static IP i not use wild card, but i not understand why not working now, before working without issue i only perfomace a reinstall now this problem :'( |
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| 05:44.24 | somiaj | Kurogane: well, seems you are now having to learn a lot about the inner workings of ipv6. Probabaly annoying now, but might be more useful in the future with what you learn. |
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| 06:51.01 | Haohmaru | halp, my debian froze while updating packages |
| 06:51.36 | nobyk | froze, as in it's powered down now? |
| 06:51.41 | Haohmaru | i'm unable to switch to textmode, i tried REISUB stuff but it doesn't respond to that either |
| 06:51.57 | nobyk | What package was it updating ? |
| 06:52.38 | Haohmaru | last thing i see in synaptic is "unpacking linux-image-4.19.0-8-rt-amd64 ..." |
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| 06:54.03 | nobyk | dang that sounds important, any chance there's backups? |
| 06:54.17 | Haohmaru | backups? |
| 06:54.24 | nobyk | of your system |
| 06:55.03 | Haohmaru | i don't have too critical things on this debian, but i got crapdows as well |
| 06:55.29 | Haohmaru | interestingly, when it froze it seems to have f*cked up the LAN here |
| 06:55.51 | Haohmaru | i had to unplug the cable so the others can have LAN/internetz |
| 06:55.55 | nobyk | the network? Was it applying the update or still downloading it |
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| 06:56.12 | Haohmaru | nah, it obviously had already downloaded them |
| 06:56.27 | Haohmaru | synaptic first downloads the packages, then starts fiddling with them |
| 06:56.47 | Haohmaru | any ideas how i can unfreeze it maybe? |
| 06:59.05 | nobyk | the 'ctrl alt f2' thing doesn't work either? |
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| 07:01.54 | Haohmaru | what's it supposed to do? |
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| 07:02.31 | Haohmaru | oh, you mean switching to text mode? that doesn't work |
| 07:02.32 | nobyk | Start a terminal outside of the DE iirc |
| 07:02.36 | nobyk | yeah that |
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| 07:03.00 | nobyk | Well if it's not responsive to anything at all I don't think there's anything you can do |
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| 07:03.22 | nobyk | Have you tried cursing at it? I see a lot of people do that maybe it works lol |
| 07:03.30 | Haohmaru | so.. fuggly reset then |
| 07:03.34 | leorat | how long has it been frozen? i had similar in the past and it took 25min to unfreeze itself and another time a reboot fixed it |
| 07:03.55 | Haohmaru | 40 minutes |
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| 07:05.42 | Haohmaru | thing is, my nose tells me i'll have a broken debian when i reboot it |
| 07:05.55 | Haohmaru | maybe even broken grub |
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| 07:09.19 | leorat | that was my fear when i had to resort to reboot, i took a break leaving it for for an hour hoping it would come good itself then bit the bullet and rebooted, all good luckily |
| 07:10.56 | Haohmaru | the crapvidia's fan is spinning intensely (altho that happens all the time anyway) |
| 07:11.25 | Haohmaru | okay, imma press teh butten |
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| 07:15.04 | nobyk | dew it |
| 07:16.09 | Haohmaru | playz: The Chemical Brothers - Galvanize |
| 07:16.40 | leorat | i had a couple of errors pop up on the reboot which i didnt catch after that but they disappeared on he next reboot when i tried to catch them, everything worked then |
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| 07:26.10 | Haohmaru | mega fail, i pressed the wrong reset butten /o\ |
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| 07:29.54 | Haohmaru | wow, i reached the login manager |
| 07:30.23 | Haohmaru | i think i better not run the desktop |
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| 07:33.01 | Haohmaru | any ideas what to do? |
| 07:33.12 | Haohmaru | !broken update |
| 07:33.13 | dpkg | broken update is probably check the bug report for a workaround: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=192403 |
| 07:33.29 | Haohmaru | !interrupted update |
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| 07:35.16 | somiaj | Haohmaru: depends on where it was intruppted, if doing the download, there was no harm, start the upgrade again |
| 07:35.31 | somiaj | Haohmaru: if during the configuration stage, dpkg --configure -a, and apt -f install can sometimes fix things. |
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| 07:37.00 | Haohmaru | somiaj, i was in synaptic, it was after the downloading stage, it was unpacking the kernel rt package |
| 07:37.37 | Haohmaru | after i rebooted it, it got up to the login manager fine (but i didn't log in) |
| 07:37.44 | Haohmaru | i switched to text mode and logged in as root\ |
| 07:38.07 | Haohmaru | somiaj, so, your second suggestion maybe? |
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| 07:39.03 | somiaj | it depends on if it intruppted the the download or not, but sure, start with the second one |
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| 07:39.36 | Haohmaru | somiaj, well i doubt cuz synaptic downloads all packages first |
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| 07:40.23 | somiaj | correct, if it was in the download stage, nothing actually happened, but if it was unpacking/configuring what I said can often work. |
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| 07:44.53 | rain1 | hey |
| 07:45.04 | rain1 | how is ruby gem used on debian? by default gem install gives permissions erros |
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| 07:52.08 | nkuttler | rain1: i'd assume it tries to install system-wide by default |
| 07:52.30 | nkuttler | rain1: with python people use virtualenvs to avoid this, you probably want to ask in a ruby channel how they solve this |
| 07:52.59 | nkuttler | rain1: either way, i'd recommend not to install any third party packages system-wide |
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| 07:55.08 | rain1 | ok thanks |
| 07:56.47 | Haohmaru | okay, that (dpkg --configure -a) finished, with lots of "W possible missing firmware <blahblah> for module nouveau" |
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| 08:15.49 | Haohmaru | now in synaptic, when i press Reload, it says: "Could not download all repository indexes" "failed to fetch http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/buster/InRelease temporary failure resolving deb.debian.org"" |
| 08:16.04 | Haohmaru | hm, is this an issue with my internetz maybe? |
| 08:17.03 | Haohmaru | ah i got roughly the same thing if i try to ping deb.debian.org |
| 08:17.26 | Haohmaru | okay, thanks somiaj |
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| 08:36.38 | GLAT-agent340 | Your GNU/Linux copy is not genuine. Purchase a license for $99 now. |
| 08:37.48 | ikonia | yeah, you did that gag already in other channels |
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| 08:41.16 | choice | I have put this into my crontab: 40 */2 * * * /path/to/my/script.sh |
| 08:41.30 | choice | So it should have executed the script a minute ago. But it did not. |
| 08:41.40 | choice | Anybody knows why? Is there a crontab log? |
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| 08:45.00 | choice | Internet broke ... did anybody answer my cron question? |
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| 08:53.01 | choice | Re. Internet broke again. |
| 08:56.22 | choice | Found the error! |
| 08:56.24 | choice | Thanks :) |
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| 09:19.59 | throwthecheese | Is there a way to install the official NVIDIA 304.xx drivers on buster? |
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| 09:20.13 | throwthecheese | Or get them work with some trick? |
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| 09:30.23 | Haohmaru | throwthecheese have you seen this? https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers |
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| 10:17.44 | inch | Cloning a debian installation from disk to another was rather easy when machines used bios: Just copy contents of partitios with tar or cp and finally chroot and run grub-install and update-grub. |
| 10:18.09 | inch | But now with UEFI I seem to run into problems I don't understand. |
| 10:19.09 | inch | I do basically the same, add --target=x86_64-efi to grub-install and the cloned system won't boot. |
| 10:19.39 | inch | What else shoud I do to make a cloned installation to boot with efi? |
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| 10:25.58 | inch | It seems buster has trouble booting even without cloning anything in "qemu-system-x86_64 -bios /usr/share/ovmf/OVMF.fd" |
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| 10:33.09 | inch | I installed buster to a qemu virtual machine with ovmf. It doesn't boot by itself. I need to type commands to efi shell every time: "fs0:", "cd EFI", "cd debian", "grubx64.efi" |
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| 10:40.22 | throwthecheese | Is there a patch that enables buster to use the 304.xx nVidia drivers? |
| 10:40.41 | throwthecheese | Or should I get a 340-compatible GPU instead? |
| 10:42.23 | inch | Now that I finally browsed the menus enough, I found out that ovmf lets you add a boot option and set it to boot as default. |
| 10:45.20 | throwthecheese | I'm eyeing a GT 710 GPU to make up for my deadbeef IGP |
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| 11:41.17 | EvilKittyBoi | how can I figure what is the actual version of a package on debian or something |
| 11:41.30 | EvilKittyBoi | I am trying to install postgis 3.0.0+dfsg-2~exp1.pgdg100+1 but now it's not there anymore |
| 11:41.38 | EvilKittyBoi | and I dont know what has replaced it |
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| 11:49.26 | dvs | EvilKittyBoi, apt-cache policy postgis |
| 11:52.02 | EvilKittyBoi | dvs: how can I pretend to be debian? |
| 11:52.27 | EvilKittyBoi | I am running this on docker that is running linux alpine which uses the debian packages but my actual machine has ubuntu |
| 11:52.27 | dvs | No idea |
| 11:52.39 | EvilKittyBoi | the recommendations I get are from ubuntu archives |
| 11:52.47 | EvilKittyBoi | is there a way to run this online? |
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| 11:59.26 | EdePopede | EvilKittyBoi: so you're running an alpine docker image on an ubuntu host? |
| 12:01.42 | EvilKittyBoi | ye |
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| 12:02.34 | EvilKittyBoi | I am rethinking my choices, maybe bare metal is better than all these stuff |
| 12:03.08 | petn-randall | EvilKittyBoi: We can only give you support for Debian, so if you want to get support in here, you need to install Debian. |
| 12:03.10 | EdePopede | here you can look online for available packages on different debian releases: https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages |
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| 12:04.21 | EdePopede | still may or may not make sense, depending on what alpine is doing |
| 12:05.18 | petn-randall | !alpine |
| 12:05.19 | dpkg | Alpine is a cross-platform e-mail client for the console. It is a rewrite of <Pine>, distributed under the version 2.0 of the Apache License. It currently has no <maildir> support (Debian bug #405762). http://www.washington.edu/alpine/faq/ |
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| 12:05.32 | petn-randall | Hmm, not that alpine |
| 12:05.39 | EdePopede | !alpine-linux |
| 12:05.41 | EdePopede | no? |
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| 12:06.55 | shibboleth | "alpine" is also a decent reminder that no, apple does not hav a time machine |
| 12:06.57 | shibboleth | have |
| 12:07.37 | shibboleth | "hmm, which super secret root password are we gonna be using on iphoneos?" |
| 12:09.23 | petn-randall | heh |
| 12:11.33 | EvilKittyBoi | EdePopede: I see... |
| 12:11.41 | EvilKittyBoi | I thought alpine was debian |
| 12:11.53 | EdePopede | !codenames |
| 12:11.54 | dpkg | Debian release codenames are buzz (1.1), rex (1.2), bo (1.3), hamm (2.0), slink (2.1), potato (2.2), woody (3.0), sarge (3.1), etch (4.0), lenny (5.0), squeeze (6.0), wheezy (7) jessie (8) stretch (9) buster (10) and sid=Unstable. "lsb_release -sc" (lsb-release package) will display a Debian system's codename. http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-ftparchives#s-codenames |
| 12:11.58 | petn-randall | !based on |
| 12:11.58 | dpkg | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
| 12:12.10 | EdePopede | if it wasn't in Toy Story, it isn't Debian ;) |
| 12:12.21 | EdePopede | !flavors |
| 12:12.24 | EdePopede | !flavours |
| 12:12.24 | dpkg | from memory, flavours is a way to have multiple different kernels with the same version number such that they don't mess with each other modules. a good thing. see /usr/share/doc/kernel-package/Flavours.gz, or It's also a good way to avoid having the default debian kernel installed over top of your hand rolled piece of perfection. See also epoch. |
| 12:12.41 | EdePopede | or what was the name for the specialized versions? |
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| 12:14.32 | EdePopede | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianPureBlends |
| 12:15.20 | Eryn_1983_FL | guys i got some weird shit in my /home |
| 12:15.23 | Eryn_1983_FL | https://paste.debian.net/1147610/ |
| 12:15.25 | Eryn_1983_FL | wtf is it |
| 12:15.29 | Eryn_1983_FL | windowsa tuff? |
| 12:16.19 | Eryn_1983_FL | .net? |
| 12:17.03 | EdePopede | Eryn_1983_FL: did you mount the disk while running windows? |
| 12:17.49 | Eryn_1983_FL | i dont think so |
| 12:17.53 | Eryn_1983_FL | i havent booted windows in months |
| 12:18.56 | EdePopede | who is the owner of the files, especially the wanna-be user directory? |
| 12:19.36 | Eryn_1983_FL | root |
| 12:19.39 | EdePopede | no idea how the roll out their patches, but this looks like an unpacked archived to me. only whodunit and why? |
| 12:19.46 | Eryn_1983_FL | made on jun 28 2019 |
| 12:19.54 | EdePopede | mtime or ctime? |
| 12:20.01 | Eryn_1983_FL | i did a ls -la |
| 12:20.07 | crane | I'm trying to understand the ext4 "root served space" feature. is the space only reserved for /root or are other things like being able to sudo when the disk is "full"? |
| 12:20.29 | EdePopede | Eryn_1983_FL: ctime would tell you when it was thrown into /home |
| 12:21.47 | Eryn_1983_FL | june 28 2019 |
| 12:21.49 | EdePopede | crane: the space is reserved for processes running under root account to keep some space when the system may need it |
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| 12:22.48 | crane | EdePopede: so a "sudo $whatever" would still be possible? But while I am asking I am wondering how non root users can login when disk is full |
| 12:23.50 | EdePopede | Eryn_1983_FL: stat -c '%z' /home/5932ddbcd8d4ee8e88e9 gives you that date? |
| 12:24.53 | EdePopede | crane: i've been playing a bit with that situation. starting mc on a full partition instantly zeroed its config file. open for write and the disk is full... bad idea |
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| 12:25.11 | EdePopede | as long is nothing is written by the user you should be fine |
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| 12:25.45 | EdePopede | mtab and other logging still works |
| 12:25.52 | crane | EdePopede: I'm trying to get rid of the argumentation "we need partitions to have always our service running and can login into the box" |
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| 12:26.42 | EdePopede | you only should take care about .bash_history, better don't log out on a full disk if you want to keep it (though i don't think i tested this one) |
| 12:26.48 | *** part/#debian sgo11 (~song@104.36.66.71) |
| 12:28.00 | EdePopede | oh, and it is not /root (admin's home sweet home). but root processes can still write on the extra few %. |
| 12:28.06 | Eryn_1983_FL | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:28.09 | Eryn_1983_FL | 2019-06-28 16:59:30.000000000 -0400 |
| 12:28.21 | EdePopede | so it is around for nearly a year now? |
| 12:28.30 | Eryn_1983_FL | yeah |
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| 12:29.05 | EdePopede | even with covid you could safely leave your $HOME xD |
| 12:29.49 | Eryn_1983_FL | lolol |
| 12:30.00 | EdePopede | <Eryn_1983_FL> i havent booted windows in months <-- sure it was *that* many months? |
| 12:31.25 | EdePopede | i had some weird entries too while i was booting my ext4 into XP with that driver... RedmondOS creating some of the typical ntfs directories everywhere |
| 12:31.39 | Eryn_1983_FL | ok maybe.. |
| 12:31.55 | EdePopede | but this looks like some unpacking that went wrong while windows running |
| 12:31.57 | Eryn_1983_FL | its been that long |
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| 12:32.13 | EdePopede | you could upload it to some online scanner just to be safe |
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| 12:32.15 | Eryn_1983_FL | i finally gave up on EQ |
| 12:32.23 | Eryn_1983_FL | meh ill just delete it |
| 12:32.31 | EdePopede | or check the md5 or what they use on their download site |
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| 12:32.51 | EdePopede | i don't think so but it COULD (very big COULD) be a problem |
| 12:33.08 | EdePopede | better safe than sorry ya know :) |
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| 12:34.01 | EdePopede | and tons of empty l10n directories, that's just so stupid -.- |
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| 12:48.55 | AlligatorJoe | fuck you fuckin money makin motherfuckers....you god damn bastards owe the 5 of us trillions of dollars in royalties for our model 1 ideas and none of you goddamn money making motherfuckers have paid the royalties you owe us |
| 12:49.11 | Deano59 | Hi! What package does usermod belong to? |
| 12:49.40 | Deano59 | Can't seem to find information on it :( |
| 12:50.01 | dvs | Deano59, passwd: /usr/sbin/usermod |
| 12:50.14 | Deano59 | Nope. |
| 12:50.34 | f8e4 | anyone experiencing chrashes with chromium lately: 80.0.3987.162-1~deb10u1 ?: Received signal 11 SEGV_MAPERR |
| 12:50.39 | Deano59 | I'm trying to do a minimum install dvs |
| 12:50.39 | AlligatorJoe | we are still waiting for our money and we want every fuckin dime of the trillions of dollars you goddamn bastards owe the 5 of us |
| 12:50.47 | dvs | Deano59, dpkg -S usermod |
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| 12:51.53 | AlligatorJoe | we know some of you are multinational corporations making millions of dollars off of our model 1 ideas and none of you have paid the royalties you motherfuckers owe the 5 of us |
| 12:53.23 | Deano59 | dvs reboot command, usermod etc not found. |
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| 12:55.24 | Fox | Deano59: how did you become root ? |
| 12:55.26 | dvs | sees where this is going |
| 12:55.29 | dvs | yup |
| 12:55.44 | Fox | is blind |
| 12:55.53 | dvs | nah, I think you nailed it |
| 12:56.38 | AlligatorJoe | you sons of bitches need to pay a fair share of your profits that you earned off the backs of our pioneering work on the model 1 and none of you bastards have paid the trillions of dollars you fuckin owe the 5 of us |
| 12:57.15 | annadane | !ops AlligatorJoe |
| 12:57.15 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: annadane complains about a problem (see above) |
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| 13:00.44 | AlligatorJoe | we want our money...you goddamn money makin sons of bitches need to pay up |
| 13:01.35 | AlligatorJoe | we know some of you are multinational corporations making millions of dollars off of our ideas and you bastards have not paid what you fuckin owe the 5 of us |
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| 13:03.42 | Deano59 | What... |
| 13:03.47 | annadane | ignore the troll |
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| 13:04.08 | dvs | Deano59, you need to be root to use those commands |
| 13:04.11 | AlligatorJoe | annadane...fuck you bitch...you are probably one of the ones that owe us the most |
| 13:04.57 | AlligatorJoe | annadane...somebody needs to beat the living fuckin shit out of you ....you goddamn pirating motherfucker....you need to pay what you fuckin owe |
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| 13:05.52 | AlligatorJoe | annadane...we want our money ...and it amounts to trillions of dollars and we demand you motherfuckers pay up |
| 13:06.34 | Deano59 | what you on about dvs ? |
| 13:06.54 | Deano59 | bash: reboot: command not found |
| 13:07.22 | annadane | try becoming root with su - instead of su |
| 13:07.24 | annadane | !buster su |
| 13:07.24 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 13:07.31 | dvs | Deano59, yes, you need to be root (or use sudo) to run the reboot command |
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| 13:08.52 | AlligatorJoe | we know some of you are multinational corporations making millions of dollars off of our model 1 ideas and you god damn bastards have no right to have used our ideas without paying us the trillions of dollars you fuckin owe us |
| 13:09.23 | *** join/#debian nobyk (~nobyk@gateway/tor-sasl/nobyk) |
| 13:09.53 | annadane | if you "whereis reboot" you see it's in /usr/sbin/reboot, anything in sbin you need the new su - behavior (remember the dash) or use sudo which overrides all that |
| 13:10.57 | AlligatorJoe | this is serious talk about fuckin ass MONEY...big MONEY owed.....nations kill nations throughout history over a handful of dollars |
| 13:11.50 | AlligatorJoe | we want our goddamn money....every fuckin dime of it that is owed to us |
| 13:12.18 | annadane | so sudo reboot will work |
| 13:12.54 | annadane | as for usermod one can install apt-file and then apt-file search usermod |
| 13:13.25 | annadane | (though do an "apt-file update" first to update the cache...) |
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| 13:15.44 | AlligatorJoe | do you have any idea how many people have been slaughtered throughout history over who is going to get the gold...we want our MONEY. |
| 13:17.45 | joepublic | !ops AlligatorJoe wants a refund |
| 13:17.45 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: joepublic complains about a problem (see above) |
| 13:18.55 | AlligatorJoe | we know some of you bastards are making money off of either our model 1 hardware ideas or else our model 1 software ideas...and you fuckers have not paid what you fuckin ass owe the 5 of us |
| 13:19.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1305] by debhelper |
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| 13:22.45 | Haohmaru | o_O |
| 13:22.50 | Haohmaru | wut's going on here |
| 13:23.32 | ratrace | Haohmaru: no idea whatcha talking about. Expanded my ignore list some time ago :) |
| 13:24.23 | AlligatorJoe | wut's going on....its been over 50 years almost since we pioneered many digital ideas in software and hardware on the first microcomputer called the trs80 model 1....and you sons of bitches have still not paid the 5 of us the trillions of dollars of royalties you motherfuckers owe us |
| 13:24.27 | Haohmaru | i do not count "ignore" as a solution |
| 13:24.51 | ratrace | Haohmaru: the ops are RIP, ignore lists are all you can do |
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| 13:24.57 | Haohmaru | AlligatorJoe who, me? |
| 13:25.20 | Haohmaru | i don't have a trs80 model 1, i don't even think i know wut it is |
| 13:25.23 | AlligatorJoe | Haohmaru...we want our fuckin MONEY...every fuckin dime you money making bastards owe us as fair compensation for the profits you earned |
| 13:25.52 | Haohmaru | how bout u relax first |
| 13:26.08 | AlligatorJoe | Haohmaru...you don't have to know what it is....but you can look it up if you want to....you are still using our ideas |
| 13:26.35 | AlligatorJoe | and some of you are making money off of our ideas and we want our fuckin royalty money |
| 13:26.59 | ratrace | Haohmaru: Y U FEED TROLL |
| 13:27.20 | Ticho_ | fetches popcorn |
| 13:27.27 | Haohmaru | AlligatorJoe which idea am i using that is yours? |
| 13:27.38 | Haohmaru | i'll pay ;P~ |
| 13:27.45 | Haohmaru | do you accept paypal? |
| 13:27.54 | *** join/#debian CTF (~ctf@unaffiliated/ctf) |
| 13:28.51 | AlligatorJoe | Hoahmaru...no strictly cash....we want trillions of dollars from all those multinational corporations that have profited off of our ideas for the last nearly 50 years...without paying us...and we are tired of waiting for our money |
| 13:29.20 | Haohmaru | oh |
| 13:29.28 | Haohmaru | well, i don't think they are here on #debian |
| 13:29.57 | Haohmaru | perhaps, say all those things to them, like.. on their email or sumfin |
| 13:30.04 | Haohmaru | or make a Blog post about it |
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| 13:30.22 | Haohmaru | or a pootube rant video |
| 13:30.22 | AlligatorJoe | Haohmaru...we know they are here....debian is one of the few kernels that works....and supports a variety of hardware....so we know they are monitoring |
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| 13:30.50 | Haohmaru | them use /msg <nick> <text> |
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| 13:31.05 | AlligatorJoe | we know goddamn well those money making sons of bitches are here and we want our MONEY |
| 13:31.10 | Haohmaru | also, this channel is for the stable version of debian, so it's mostly users |
| 13:31.26 | Haohmaru | debian developement channels are not even on freenode |
| 13:31.28 | BalooRJ | there's a way to block people on Freenode? |
| 13:32.07 | Haohmaru | AlligatorJoe why don't you sue them? |
| 13:32.14 | ratrace | BalooRJ: /ignore <nick> |
| 13:32.24 | ratrace | also get the +g user flag so nobody can PM you :) |
| 13:32.42 | ratrace | or +R if you want only reged users to PM you |
| 13:32.57 | BalooRJ | ratrace - Thanks! |
| 13:33.06 | AlligatorJoe | Haohmaru...it takes money to hire teams of lawyers that can win a case.....against the world.....and we still dont have the trillions of dollars the bastards owe us....so how can we pay for the lawyers |
| 13:33.30 | Haohmaru | kickstarter? |
| 13:33.35 | Haohmaru | or something like that |
| 13:34.03 | Haohmaru | you definately ain't gonna raise money for paying the lawyers by sitting on #debian and doing what you're doing right now |
| 13:34.04 | jmcnaught | Haohmaru: please stop interacting with the troll. |
| 13:34.14 | Haohmaru | jmcnaught k |
| 13:34.47 | AlligatorJoe | jmcnaught....troll....fuck you you goddamn fuckin thief of our ideas |
| 13:35.23 | Haohmaru | that's not how you raise monies either |
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| 13:45.50 | no_gravity | I have a machine where non-ascii characters are broken when I ssh into it. Do you guys know how to debug this? |
| 13:47.15 | ratrace | no_gravity: I'd start by checking if your client has proper locale and if sshd is accepting client locale and if the locale is enabled and supported |
| 13:47.44 | no_gravity | ratrace: Step 1: Is that by typing "locale"? |
| 13:48.18 | ratrace | no_gravity: yes but more importantly, does your client support non-ascii chars in the terminal |
| 13:49.28 | no_gravity | ratrace: The client? Sure. I have no problems when sshing into any other machine. |
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| 13:51.55 | no_gravity | Can I copy the variables from one machine to the other? For example LC_CTYPE="C.UTF-8" |
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| 13:53.29 | cybercrypto | no_gravity: assuming that every variable is stored 'in a file' from a gnu/linux perspective, I may say that you can copy from each other. |
| 13:54.23 | ratrace | no_gravity: in context of your question, you typically have AcceptEnv LANG LC_* setting in sshd_config , but you need to have that locale also available on the server side. |
| 13:54.41 | ratrace | of your *earlier question |
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| 13:56.06 | no_gravity | ratrace: "AcceptEnv LANG LC_*" is in /etc/ssh/sshd_config |
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| 13:57.20 | no_gravity | Ah no! It is no! |
| 13:57.39 | no_gravity | Ah, it *is* :) |
| 13:57.46 | no_gravity | Second time I looked into ssh_config. |
| 13:57.54 | no_gravity | So it *is* in sshd_config on the server. |
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| 14:02.31 | wwilliam | Hello im on buster and my screen has a black bar on the right hand side, like is not using the whole monitor space. |
| 14:02.44 | wwilliam | product: 82G33/G31 Express Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:29C2] |
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| 14:03.56 | wwilliam | Kernel driver in use: i915 |
| 14:06.02 | wwilliam | nm fixed. |
| 14:06.14 | wwilliam | wrong display configuration. |
| 14:06.22 | no_gravity | Anybody here who knows how to fix broken-chars-over-ssh? |
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| 14:16.28 | n_1-c_k | no_gravity, probably not me but... are you saying "echo '¡hola!'" works locally but renders incorrectly over ssh, on the same terminal emulator? |
| 14:17.15 | no_gravity | n_1-c_k: That command works fine everywhere |
| 14:17.56 | n_1-c_k | er then what is "broken-chars-over-ssh"? |
| 14:17.58 | no_gravity | n_1-c_k: But not typing ü :) |
| 14:18.08 | no_gravity | n_1-c_k: I cannot type ü for example. |
| 14:18.39 | n_1-c_k | Ah, so locally ü shows up, then you ssh and it doesn't? What appears instead? |
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| 14:20.21 | Haohmaru | ratrace instead of /ignore, i usually talk them trollz out of IRC ;P~ |
| 14:20.28 | ratrace | no_gravity: so what does `locale` say when you run it on the server via ssh? |
| 14:20.43 | Haohmaru | ..or make them stfu |
| 14:20.48 | no_gravity | ratrace: https://pastebin.com/raw/pv3TKTwY |
| 14:20.52 | ratrace | Haohmaru: that usually doens't work :) |
| 14:21.04 | Haohmaru | works 99% in my cases |
| 14:21.10 | no_gravity | n_1-c_k: Nothin happens. And many non-ascii chars in text files are borken. |
| 14:21.20 | Haohmaru | no troll has made me give up and reach for /ignore |
| 14:21.26 | ratrace | no_gravity: well, do you see the errors listed on the server? you need to dpkg-reconfigure locale and enable all the locales you want |
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| 14:22.05 | ratrace | locales* `dpkg-reconfigure locales` |
| 14:22.18 | no_gravity | ratrace: I don't want to do it manually. |
| 14:22.37 | no_gravity | ratrace: This might work: sed -i '/en_US.UTF-8/s/^#//' /etc/locale.gen |
| 14:22.43 | no_gravity | ratrace: To enable the locale. |
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| 14:24.18 | n_1-c_k | Does 'echo $TERM' show the same either side? |
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| 14:25.08 | no_gravity | n_1-c_k: Yes: xterm-256color |
| 14:25.26 | ratrace | no_gravity: that's not the only locale in the list you pasted |
| 14:25.52 | ratrace | and that sed command looks wrong |
| 14:26.35 | n_1-c_k | hmm my idea box is nearly empty.. maybe 'ssh -t ...' makes a difference, or another emulator e.g. rxvt-unicode |
| 14:26.41 | no_gravity | How about this? sed -i 's/^#en_US.UTF-8/en_US.UTF-8/g' /etc/locale.gen |
| 14:26.48 | ratrace | anyway, after changing locale.gen you need to re-run locale-gen |
| 14:27.08 | ratrace | no_gravity: if you have some automation there, just echo the locales you want enabled into the file.... |
| 14:27.53 | no_gravity | This worked: sed -i 's/^# en_US.UTF-8/en_US.UTF-8/g' /etc/locale.gen |
| 14:28.10 | no_gravity | Now: /usr/sbin/locale-gen |
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| 14:29.34 | ratrace | no_gravity: and again, that's no the only locale you had in that paste |
| 14:29.38 | ratrace | *not |
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| 14:30.35 | no_gravity | ratrace: I will dig deeper if that does not solve it. |
| 14:31.24 | no_gravity | Hmm... it partly solved the issue. "öäü" now work. But some chars are still broken. |
| 14:31.54 | no_gravity | ratrace: You mean the de_ locales? |
| 14:32.37 | ratrace | yes |
| 14:33.05 | ratrace | what's also important is having UTF-8 compliant font in your terminal, like for example DejaVu |
| 14:33.48 | no_gravity | ratrace: Yes, I see everything fine except when I ssh into that machine (A PI Zero). |
| 14:38.49 | no_gravity | Wow, generating de_DE.UTF-8 solved it all! |
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| 15:21.44 | urxtnw | somiaj, hey, a couple of weeks ago we were talking about an openvpn server and how to start it. I actually got it to work following the debian wiki using these commands |
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| 15:22.05 | urxtnw | for server: openvpn --dev tun1 --ifconfig 10.9.8.1 10.9.8.2 --tls-server --dh /etc/openvpn/easy-rsa/keys/dh2048.pem --ca /etc/openvpn/easy-rsa/keys/ca.crt --cert /etc/openvpn/easy-rsa/keys/server.crt --key /etc/openvpn/easy-rsa/keys/server.key --reneg-sec 60 --verb 5 |
| 15:22.05 | no_gravity | Does crontab use the same time that "date" outputs? |
| 15:22.20 | urxtnw | for client: openvpn --remote SERVER_IP --dev tun1 --ifconfig 10.9.8.2 10.9.8.1 --tls-client --ca /etc/openvpn/easy-rsa/keys/ca.crt --cert /etc/openvpn/easy-rsa/keys/clientname.crt --key /etc/openvpn/easy-rsa/keys/clientname.key --reneg-sec 60 --verb 5 |
| 15:22.35 | urxtnw | the problem is, when I set up the config, I don't see the tun interface |
| 15:22.40 | greycat | crontab uses your system's default local time zone, which may or may not be what "date" prints out, because you might have set the TZ variable in your interactive shell |
| 15:22.49 | urxtnw | following this wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/OpenVPN |
| 15:23.13 | greycat | it should be what (unset TZ; date) prints, though |
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| 15:38.16 | Deano59 | weird problem.. openvpn via NM-APPLET won't show my vpn ip address but it shows my own..... if I "openvpn --config" and connect through bash it works fine. am I missing something? |
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| 15:46.56 | no_gravity | When you do "passwd --lock joe" then joe cannot even log in with his keys anymore? |
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| 16:21.45 | urxtnw | somiaj, nevermind I got it to work :) |
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| 17:26.12 | b1ackandwh1te | im sorry to bother, but i need help with keyboard configuration, already did online tutorials but eith no success, i have a minimum installation then all must be trough terminal |
| 17:26.45 | greycat | !keymap |
| 17:26.45 | dpkg | Run "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" to change both your default console and X keymap; the setxkbmap utility can be used to adjust keymap settings during X operation. For setting up X keymaps, see xkeycaps, xev and ask me about <multimedia keys>. |
| 17:27.08 | b1ackandwh1te | greycat, i already did it |
| 17:27.41 | b1ackandwh1te | setxbmap not |
| 17:29.05 | b1ackandwh1te | setxkbmap requires some parameter i guess |
| 17:29.19 | greycat | Did you not just say you AREN'T USING X?! |
| 17:29.27 | greycat | If you are NOT USING X, then ignore all of the X stuff! |
| 17:29.41 | b1ackandwh1te | im under xfce, sorry |
| 17:30.01 | greycat | 13:26 b1ackandwh1te> [...] i have a minimum installation then all must be trough terminal |
| 17:30.06 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 17:30.39 | greycat | whyyyyyyy |
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| 17:30.54 | b1ackandwh1te | i because my xfce is not installed with all utilites of default |
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| 17:32.42 | b1ackandwh1te | first i installed without gui, then i apt installed xfce then it came almost empty |
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| 17:34.15 | b1ackandwh1te | why? because am an idiot i guess |
| 17:34.49 | b1ackandwh1te | but i believe in debian, all is fixable |
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| 17:38.26 | karlpinc | b1ackandwh1te: You need to install X as well as xfce (the xorg package). |
| 17:39.22 | b1ackandwh1te | hum perhaps i expressed myself not well, i have gui now, under xfce now |
| 17:40.11 | b1ackandwh1te | but a lot of utilities are not installed |
| 17:40.32 | b1ackandwh1te | libreoffice for example i dont have |
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| 17:40.38 | b1ackandwh1te | and dont want |
| 17:40.50 | b1ackandwh1te | i wanted something slim |
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| 17:41.57 | karlpinc | b1ackandwh1te: I wasn't really paying attention. |
| 17:42.00 | miskatonic | and that slim thing would be? |
| 17:42.51 | ratrace | b1ackandwh1te: so you have yet to state what actual problem you have. so far you said you needed help with keyboard, and not much else about it. |
| 17:42.53 | b1ackandwh1te | perhaps some screen shots are better, i will post |
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| 17:43.03 | karlpinc | b1ackandwh1te: I installed the "xfce4" package. That included various settings tools etc. |
| 17:43.08 | miskatonic | we are not telepaths |
| 17:43.50 | b1ackandwh1te | miskatonic, yes , wait |
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| 18:18.49 | ThePendulum | hello |
| 18:19.22 | DanteD | is the next stable release anywhere near? I messed up my apt with trying to downgrade from testing and need to update to something sometime soon |
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| 18:20.47 | flayer | it's gonna be a year at least i think |
| 18:20.48 | karlpinc | !guess the release date |
| 18:20.49 | dpkg | Guess the release date is a game you can play! Look at http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ and guess when the green line will reach 0. |
| 18:20.58 | DanteD | I guess when debian says "only do this if you know what you are doing" and making you to type "Yes, I really want to do this", you should listen and NOT do it |
| 18:21.16 | b1ackandwh1te | God be praysed, as told, in debian all is fixable, the keyboard issue is solved :) |
| 18:21.18 | sney | live and learn, lol |
| 18:21.35 | karlpinc | DanteD: The next release is not even (close?) to freeze, so the outstanding bug count won't be going down. |
| 18:21.51 | flayer | freeze is in january next year |
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| 18:22.49 | ThePendulum | transmission-daemon is locking up my debian NAS and I'm trying to work out why whatever issue it has can wipe out the whole machine |
| 18:23.16 | karlpinc | sney: Yeah. I know I'm going to regret not having hourly backups because I'm too lazy to switch from daily. |
| 18:23.32 | ThePendulum | it becomes unreachable via ssh or samba, and journalctl, cron etc. just stop logging without reporting any issues |
| 18:23.34 | b1ackandwh1te | the motive to setup a very minimalistic system is because i am configuring it to do only internet banking you know |
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| 18:24.11 | karlpinc | ThePendulum: |
| 18:24.19 | ThePendulum | hello |
| 18:24.21 | karlpinc | A serial console can be very helpful. |
| 18:24.40 | ThePendulum | where would I plug that in? |
| 18:24.41 | karlpinc | !serial console |
| 18:24.41 | dpkg | A serial console can be used to administrate a system or capture kernel crash/panic information. http://kernel.org/doc/Documentation/serial-console.txt . You will also want your bootloader to use the serial console. See also <netconsole>. |
| 18:25.11 | ThePendulum | 404 on that link btw |
| 18:26.25 | karlpinc | ThePendulum: That depends. Sometimes there's a port on the board that's not attached to anything. I think there's a way to use a usb port, but I forget. And _something_ can be done with a jtag port, which often exists. But I forget the details. |
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| 18:26.47 | cybercrypto | karlpinc: it is moved to here: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/serial/00-INDEX |
| 18:27.01 | b1ackandwh1te | the less binaries installed the less chance to be hacked. not to mention the extras cryptographic measures |
| 18:27.03 | sney | I had some lockups with transmission-daemon that seemed to be related to the strongswan vpn setup on the same machine. It would go unreachable as soon as transmission was only seeding. I fixed it by configuring the vpn on my router instead, but if you're torrenting over a VPN it might be something worth looking into. |
| 18:27.34 | ThePendulum | oh interesting, it does have wireguard and tinc running |
| 18:27.50 | sponix | sney: they might also see if rtorrent/rutorrent or even Deluge is an option |
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| 18:28.22 | ThePendulum | deluge is a steaming ..., if I can figure out how to set up rtorrent that does seem to be a reasonable option, although gui options seem limited |
| 18:29.00 | sney | I suspect if it's happening with one torrent client it will probably happen with any of them, though it's true I didn't test that |
| 18:29.33 | ThePendulum | do you know if you had the peer port open? it was fine for quite a while, the only change I remember making is forwarding that port |
| 18:29.44 | sponix | ThePendulum: if you are on a full real Debian 10. I have an bookmark of the guide I roughly use to setup my rutorrent (it does takes some reading between the lines) |
| 18:30.13 | sney | the peer port was open to the vpn interface, yes |
| 18:30.16 | ThePendulum | hm a web frontend is not ideal, but better than not crashing I suppose |
| 18:30.41 | karlpinc | cybercrypto: The link is actually here: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/admin-guide/serial-console.rst But since it's an RST file one would think that there's a html version somewhere, which would be the correct link. |
| 18:31.03 | cybercrypto | karlpinc: correct. |
| 18:32.50 | ThePendulum | I can see why that might make it go offline, but I don't know why it would crash the whole machine though |
| 18:33.09 | sponix | ThePendulum: Sorry, I lied -- the Guide I normally use isn't available anymore. Guess I will have to make sure I _never_ reinstall my OS _ever_ again :) |
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| 18:59.06 | Deano59 | how come kodi was removed from debian testing? |
| 18:59.49 | greycat | ask the testing channel, or the web tracker |
| 19:00.11 | greycat | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/kodi |
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| 19:04.11 | annadane | !debian next |
| 19:04.15 | annadane | !debian-next |
| 19:04.16 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
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| 19:34.42 | Saeid | for playing games like world of warcraft, is it better to install a linux and have a qemo-kvm to run it? or using wine to run it? or making two separated OS and do works with linux and run games on windows? |
| 19:36.00 | sney | iirc WoW runs pretty well in wine. it generally depends on the game. |
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| 19:36.04 | JPT | It depends on the game. Check the wine project page to see how well a game is supported. |
| 19:36.46 | JPT | Iirc WoW was on the top 10 of supported games, so it should be fairly good i guess. |
| 19:37.23 | Saeid | I saw a video on youtube, a linux could run wow so well with ultra settings, but with 2x times CPU and GPU usage |
| 19:37.48 | Saeid | in comparison with windows |
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| 19:37.56 | sney | I haven't played it in 6 or 7 years but it was perfectly fine back then. |
| 19:37.59 | JPT | Well, you can just try it and see for yourself. |
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| 19:39.49 | Saeid | I'm using a laptop, it just has fans as a cooling system, if games like that get so much CPU and GPU usages I scare a little, I mean we just suppose that it can run it perfectly, but how about health of your laptop? is it really safe? |
| 19:40.00 | pileofstraw | in an attempt to capture logging that is not written to the filesystem during a hard lockup I have signed up for Loggly |
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| 19:40.31 | pileofstraw | wondering if anyone can recommend logs other than syslog to try and capture the reason for a hard crash |
| 19:40.42 | pileofstraw | it's using rsyslogd but I could presumably set up something in addition |
| 19:41.18 | sney | Saeid: the only way you can answer that is by trying it. you won't kill your laptop by testing something, if it gets too hot then close the game and try a different route |
| 19:41.26 | mutantturkey | hello, I have pam configured to se pamloginuid.so, and enabled logging of execve in auditd. This now logs user commands (awseome!), but auid should be the login id, that is, if someone runs sudo, or su, or becmes another user, the auid should still match the original login. fine, now i have this result auid=4294967295 which... well it's not any user of mine. My userid is 8032 |
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| 19:41.47 | mutantturkey | am i reading this wrong "The auid field records the Audit user ID, that is the loginuid. This ID is assigned to a user upon login and is inherited by every process even when the user's identity changes " |
| 19:42.37 | mutantturkey | auid doesn't seem to match any user id |
| 19:46.03 | mutantturkey | which happens to be 2^32-1 |
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| 19:52.06 | r3 | heh, how'd you figure that out - lol - other than deducing it is the 'cousin' to 65535 ;) |
| 19:53.05 | r3 | (2^16-1) |
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| 20:05.17 | HelloShitty | Hello peeps... Is it mandatory to import someone's public key to be able to verify a downloaded file? |
| 20:05.34 | HelloShitty | Can't we verify the downloaded file without importing any keys? |
| 20:06.21 | greycat | That depends entirely on how you're verifying it. If they just give you an SHA-256 (or whatever hash/digest algorithm) checksum, you don't need to do anything with pubkeys. |
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| 20:06.39 | greycat | If it's signed with a PGP key, then yes, you are doing pubkey stuff. |
| 20:07.16 | HelloShitty | I have a pub key, an .asc file, and a sig file |
| 20:07.48 | HelloShitty | or better, it's not a .sig file |
| 20:07.55 | HelloShitty | it's 2 .asc files |
| 20:08.16 | HelloShitty | but one of them is a signature, I guess |
| 20:08.30 | HelloShitty | I'm not very familiar with supported file extensions for signatures |
| 20:08.43 | HelloShitty | so I'm not sure if an .asc file can be a signature or not |
| 20:09.48 | mutantturkey | r3: i feel like after enough time i have all those numbers that just make me go... hmmm |
| 20:14.18 | HelloShitty | greycat: I think that with 2 .asc files, I think it's manatory to import the key |
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| 20:24.31 | b1ackandwh1te | i know as much of gpg as quantum phisics heh |
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| 20:25.02 | b1ackandwh1te | gnupg pgp |
| 20:26.33 | HelloShitty | :p |
| 20:27.56 | annadane | my favorite is calling something a "quantum leap" |
| 20:28.04 | annadane | so, a very, very, very, very small leap? |
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| 20:28.16 | greycat | It means there' |
| 20:28.25 | greycat | It means there's no in between. You jump from one thing to a different thing. |
| 20:28.37 | annadane | blah. thanks, now i can't make fun of it |
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| 20:33.09 | seekr | I will soon be retiring an old machine which runs Debian 2.6.26-amd64, but I need to use it for one more "last hurrah," which involves putting a bunch of files from another machine onto a new 14TB drive, where they will live temporarily, until I build and configure a new machine. I need to know how big a partition I can put onto that drive and how big a file system (I plan to use ReiserFS, though I'll use ext4 on the new machine (the 2.6 kernel doesn't |
| 20:33.09 | seekr | know about ext4)). |
| 20:34.51 | ratrace | I never understood the appeal of RiserFS over other.... less lethal.... filesystems. :) |
| 20:34.57 | seekr | Can someone direct me to a site that provides information about old kernels? |
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| 20:35.18 | seekr | Yeah, ratrace - I know all about Hans, who I guess is behind bars for life. |
| 20:35.51 | ratrace | seekr: well that was just tongue in cheek, but my question is not a joke. never understood why people want it over other systems |
| 20:35.58 | seekr | But ReiserFS provides journaling, like ext4. I don't have the option of upgrading the kernel. |
| 20:36.39 | ratrace | ext3 is journaled too |
| 20:37.04 | seekr | oh - well maybe I'll use it instead - it's only for temporary purposes anyway. |
| 20:38.13 | seekr | But anyway, I'd like to avoid trial-and-error methods to determine the limitations of the kernel with respect to partition size - and the limitations of whatever file system I use from about 15 years ago in that same respect. |
| 20:38.16 | ratrace | ext3 is just as good as ext4 in that way |
| 20:38.36 | seekr | How large a file system can a 1.5 decade old ext3 handle? |
| 20:38.41 | ratrace | 32TB |
| 20:38.53 | seekr | good enough :) |
| 20:38.59 | ratrace | (I'm referring to ext3 limits) |
| 20:39.17 | seekr | That's a feature that's been present since the introduction of ext3? |
| 20:40.02 | ratrace | seekr: wait, I had to look it up as I wasn't sure... with 4k blocks (default iirc), it's actually 16TB. |
| 20:40.25 | greycat | What, the journal? Yes. |
| 20:40.32 | seekr | That too is good enough, since the drive is only a measly 14TB. |
| 20:40.39 | greycat | That was the entire purpose of ext3 over ext2. |
| 20:41.02 | seekr | How about partition size limitations - can the 2.6 kernel handle 14TB? |
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| 20:54.53 | seekr | ratrace, greycat - I'm fairly naiive in these matters, but willing to do research - just a gentle push in the right direction will suffice. I guess I'll have to use GPT partitioning on this new 14TB drive, which I think will use whatever Micro$oftish scheme is used these days in its out of the box condition. |
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| 20:55.33 | ratrace | seekr: what's that btw, smr or pmr/cmr drive? |
| 20:55.53 | seekr | dunno - haven't taken it out of the box yet :) |
| 20:56.18 | seekr | It's a 14TB Toshiba drive. |
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| 20:56.52 | ratrace | that smells like smr. SMR drives are a whole different ball game, and frankly I don't know how such an old kernel will deal with it. |
| 20:57.21 | ratrace | as for partitioning, gpt is gpt regardless of kernel versions, and so are its limits. you can't use mbr for 14TB, that's clear. |
| 20:58.30 | seekr | I've just realised that maybe I have a plan b that doesn't require using that drive - I have a 500GB partition I might be able to use that would give me enough breathing room to operate until I can build the new system. |
| 20:59.09 | ratrace | I really think you should test things out to be 100% sure. last thing you want is to commit into an unkown situation without proper backups |
| 20:59.12 | seekr | I'd vastly prefer not having to put new wine into old wine skins. :D |
| 20:59.39 | ratrace | besides, breaking in a 14TB drive by zeroing it entirely is not a bad idea. |
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| 21:01.23 | seekr | I reckon that operation would take forever and a day on the old machine (AMD Athlon). I'd best wait to set up the new drive(s) on the new machine, which will use an AMD Ryzen 9 chip, though maybe that operation is more constrained by transfer speeds than by CPU power. |
| 21:01.34 | seekr | ratrace: ^^ |
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| 21:02.44 | ratrace | seekr: cpu is not the bottleneck here |
| 21:03.44 | seekr | Even so, my spidey sense is telling me that putting the new drive into the old machine, even temporarily, would be more trouble than it's worth, especially if there's a way to avoid it. |
| 21:03.52 | seekr | ratrace: ^^ |
| 21:04.32 | ratrace | SATA2 is 3Gbps which translates to ~375MB/s. There are no HDDs yet that can achieve such speeds, and this drive, even if its' the helium PMR model, will not saturate SATA2 |
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| 21:05.40 | ratrace | seekr: dunno what trouble that would be. it's a drive. I don't recall if 2.6.26 kernel can do GPT, I think it could, so you're all set. you can do GPT, and you can do ext3, and in fact if that's 64-bit system, I _think_ you can mount ext3 with "64bit" flag so you're not constrained into 2^32 blocks, thus 32TB is the limit |
| 21:05.54 | seekr | ratrace: I think I'll just sacrifice the 500 GB partition, which has a backup of what's on another partition on a different drive. The mobo on the old machine, circa 2005, is likely SATA2 - or older. |
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| 21:06.24 | ratrace | seekr: just check the spec and confirm it's a PMR helium thigny, and not a SMR disk. lately manufacturers are chating and selling SMR drives even marked as PMR |
| 21:06.41 | seekr | I'll get the specs, ratrace ... |
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| 21:08.34 | Urchin[emacs] | I've upgraded to buster recently on an old computer with just 1GB of RAM, after the upgrade the OS won't use more than about 540 MB of RAM to keep actual program data in mermory, swapping the rest, it seems to try to allocate 400-ish MB to cache |
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| 21:09.04 | Urchin[emacs] | this obviously makes a system that was previously only been marginally usable almost completely unusable |
| 21:09.12 | Urchin[emacs] | is there something I can tweak somewhere to fix this? |
| 21:09.36 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: try lowering the sysctl vm.swappiness to 10 |
| 21:09.58 | greycat | The first thing you need to do is tell us what led you to believe this ridiculous thing, so that we can debunk it. |
| 21:10.08 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: that's where? |
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| 21:10.43 | ratrace | sysctl -w vm.swappiness=10 but uhm... wait, I misread what you wrote, that probably won't help |
| 21:11.04 | Urchin[emacs] | yeah, I have no virtual machines |
| 21:11.15 | ratrace | vm is Virtual Memory here, not Virtual Machine |
| 21:11.22 | ratrace | the VM subystem of the linux kernel |
| 21:11.39 | ratrace | ie. THE memory management subsystem |
| 21:12.24 | greycat | What *specifically* did you run, and what was its output, that led you to think "there is something preventing it from using more than xx MB of RAM for applications". |
| 21:12.54 | dob1 | ,v redis |
| 21:12.55 | judd | Package: redis on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 5:4.0.11-2~bpo9+1; stretch-backports: 5:5.0.3-3~bpo9+2; buster: 5:5.0.3-4+deb10u1; buster-security: 5:5.0.3-4+deb10u1; buster-backports: 5:5.0.7-7~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5:6.0.1-2; sid: 5:6.0.1-2 |
| 21:13.05 | Urchin[emacs] | greycat: simply monitoring memory use with htop while I was trying to browse stuff with firefox |
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| 21:13.19 | Urchin[emacs] | greycat: that was how it looked |
| 21:14.15 | dob1 | how do you read the version? 5:5.0.3-4+deb10u1 that is the 5: ? |
| 21:14.25 | Urchin[emacs] | greycat: it pretty steadily didn't use more than half a gig of RAM at a time, even if it stuck 700MB to swap |
| 21:14.26 | greycat | !listkeys epoch |
| 21:14.27 | dpkg | Factoid search of 'epoch' by key (5): #debian epoch ;; epoch ;; debian epoch ;; version epoch ;; _default epoch. |
| 21:14.31 | greycat | !version epoch |
| 21:14.31 | dpkg | The version number of a package has a prepended number called the "epoch". It is only added when the system for upstream version numbers changes. Example: in sarge, X was version 6.8 but in etch it was 1.1 (xfree86->xorg). But 1 < 6, so we add an epoch "2:" to signify that everything with 2: is newer (if there is no : the epoch is assumed to be "0"). See section 5.6.12 of <policy> or ask me about <compare versions> <debian revision>. |
| 21:14.46 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: well FF is a bit of a memory hungry monster. |
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| 21:15.12 | greycat | trying to run either Firefox or Chrom* on a 1 GB machine is a pretty masochistic thing |
| 21:15.17 | ratrace | open a couple of tabs and poof, whole GB gone |
| 21:15.20 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: should not matter, any other software running did not change the situation of overal RAM use |
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| 21:15.38 | Urchin[emacs] | greycat: now try running it at half GB machine |
| 21:15.39 | greycat | did you confirm htop's output with *regular* tools like free? |
| 21:15.47 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: I think you're misreading numbers here. the linux kernel is swapping out like mad so it only _seems_ as if it's not using more than X amount |
| 21:15.52 | Urchin[emacs] | greycat: yes |
| 21:16.16 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: so if you try the swappiness thing, you'll notice it'll swap out less and thus it'll _appear_ as if more memory (RSS) is used |
| 21:16.26 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: no, measurements show it's not using more than about 55% of RAM |
| 21:16.43 | seekr | ratrace: sorry for the delay - had problems on this old laptop I'm using (will be replaced by new system) - see https://termbin.com/1tnb for specs of 14TB drive - direct link to product page at https://www.newegg.com/toshiba-mg07aca14te-14tb/p/1B0-0011-000E0?Item=1B0-0011-000E0 - but I don't know whether that URL would work for you |
| 21:17.06 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: because the VM heuristics is swapping out |
| 21:17.08 | dob1 | why on buster backports it finds version 5 and not 6 of redis? are results of ,v package from cache? |
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| 21:18.43 | jhutchins | ,v redis6 |
| 21:18.44 | judd | No package named 'redis6' was found in amd64. |
| 21:19.16 | ratrace | seekr: right so it's a PMR thingy which is okay (unless they're lying). but uhh.... how much data are we talking about here, if you keep mentioning a 500GB would suffice? |
| 21:21.01 | seekr | 500GB is enough for now - the situation is that I'm going to clone the system I'm now running on this laptop, but need to clear away enough space on an external drive to save some thing, including the clone image - so 500GB would be quite sufficient on the old machine (just need to transfer some files from an external drive to it via the network) |
| 21:21.09 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: ok, what messed with VM heuristics between versions? |
| 21:21.18 | seekr | ratrace: ^^ |
| 21:21.50 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: nothing. it's not messed, you're just seeing it at work for that particular case |
| 21:21.57 | seekr | ratrace: What's PMR? guess I can look it up :) |
| 21:22.19 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: given that it's making the computer pretty much unusable, I'd say it's messed |
| 21:22.49 | ratrace | seekr: yeah look it up. it's the way magnetic fields are used physically to store bits. |
| 21:22.53 | greycat | I can't help noticing you *still* have not shown us any output from any tool that backs up your claim. |
| 21:23.07 | seekr | ratrace: ah - okay |
| 21:24.08 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: maybe you could pastebin some numbers, like free -m and ps axu --sort rss |
| 21:25.17 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: hold on, I've tried tweaking swappiness and started the GUI again |
| 21:25.24 | ratrace | seekr: SMR is overlapping sectors so that writing them needs to re-read and re-write a whole zone which is in order of tens of MB |
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| 21:26.06 | ratrace | seekr: S in SMR is "shingled" as it overlaps them like roof shingles |
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| 21:26.37 | seekr | ratrace: hmmm - which increases transfer times? |
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| 21:27.17 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: thanks, swappiness worked |
| 21:27.27 | ratrace | seekr: which nukes random write access, even in read-write profiles. read (sequential or random) is okay as it can read individual sectors |
| 21:27.52 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: "worked" ... it merely deferred paging out. it didn't change anything but optics |
| 21:28.40 | greycat | hooray for placebos |
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| 21:30.17 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: more like did not page out aggressively stuff that shouldn't be |
| 21:30.42 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: system was not practically usable previously |
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| 21:32.15 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: usable in what way? swappiness didn't magically increase available memory, it merely changed the threshold at which the kernel will page out what it thinks are unused memory pages |
| 21:32.56 | ratrace | so lower swappiness reduces disk IO over time but increases chance of sudden swap storms |
| 21:33.40 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: yeah, but it swapped out at half a GB before, this increased effectively usable memory by hundreds of megabytes |
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| 21:34.09 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: it did not such thing |
| 21:34.13 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: I'm kind of used to swap storms, however, running firefox almost entirely from swap is pretty much entirely unusable |
| 21:34.25 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: it very much did |
| 21:34.46 | ratrace | again, swappiness does not create memory out of thin air. in fact it retained UNUSED pages in memory LONGER |
| 21:35.18 | ratrace | that's why I misread your original question, I thought you had constant swapping activity, so lowering swappiness helps in those cases |
| 21:35.36 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: again, memory existed, but half of it wasn't used |
| 21:35.54 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: this was a sudden change due to something related to an upgrade from stretch |
| 21:36.14 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: I did have constant swapping activity |
| 21:36.16 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: are you ircing from emacs btw? :)) |
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| 21:37.17 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: look, linux uses 100% of memory ( https://www.linuxatemyram.com/ ) . so you have active memory used by applications (RSS) and pagecache (and other metadata, buffers, slab cache, ...). |
| 21:37.35 | ratrace | swappiness only changes the ratio between page cache and rss, roughly speaking. |
| 21:38.02 | somiaj | maybe it is a kernel or something, but from the debian release notes, minimum requriements have changed (basically doubled). Stretch with desktop: min 256 / recommended 1gig, buster: min 512 / recommended 2gig |
| 21:38.16 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: yes, I'm IRC-ing from Emacs, and I'm connecting to a different system (this one was *that* unusable) |
| 21:38.26 | ratrace | lower swappiness will keep memory pages in RAM longer, thus reducing space for page cache. higher swappiness will more aggressively swap out, thus leaving more for pagecache. and it's not as clear cut as I just exaplained it, because under memory pressure situations, page cache might not even get a chance |
| 21:38.40 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: well, my problem was that RSS was too low |
| 21:39.20 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: it's possible that the current defaults are meant for much higher spec systems |
| 21:40.02 | greycat | good luck with this one, ratrace. you are so much more patient than I am. |
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| 21:40.16 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: for a system with 1GB RAM RSS has to be pretty maxed out to make it usable |
| 21:40.39 | seekr | ratrace: hmmm - I found an article at https://community.wd.com/t/pmr-and-smr-question/249745 that says "It is highly recommended not to mix SMR and PMR drives in one RAID type." - which I find troubling, since I'd thought I could create a couple 20TB volumes using LVM to join each of a pair of the 14TB Toshiba drives with a pair of 6TB HGST drives, and then use RAID to mirror the two volumes between one another. |
| 21:40.44 | ratrace | I still dont' know what you mean by "usable". did you have swapstorms so disk contantion lagged the system to hell and back? |
| 21:40.50 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: ^ |
| 21:41.08 | r3 | I know, throw an SSD in it!! ;) |
| 21:41.10 | seekr | ratrace: I'm assuming the HGST drives are SMR. |
| 21:41.19 | ratrace | seekr: depends on the model. |
| 21:41.26 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: I had programs running pretty much entirely from swap |
| 21:41.35 | seekr | ratrace: I'll see if I can find out... |
| 21:41.37 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: so the system was glacial |
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| 21:42.03 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: okay, so lowering swappiness it improved by deferring paging OUT, pages that shor time later are re-activated again, so you avoided a swapstorm |
| 21:42.13 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: this got complicated further by firefox engaging it's denial of service prevention stuff |
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| 21:42.22 | ratrace | that was my initial read of your problem, so I suggested lower swappiness. guess I read it correctly then. |
| 21:42.33 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: ok, thanks |
| 21:42.39 | ratrace | FF will eat gobs of RAM. if you really wanna use FF on that machine, throw in at least 4GB in there |
| 21:42.54 | ratrace | (any browser, that is) |
| 21:42.55 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: plan is to scrap the system in near future |
| 21:43.47 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: I'm pretty well aware of how bad FF is RAM-wise, however, it tended to keep just enough stuff out of swap to be usable |
| 21:43.59 | ratrace | Urchin[emacs]: oh yeah, you can make that sysctl permanent by writing vm.swappiness=10 into /etc/sysctl.conf |
| 21:44.01 | Urchin[emacs] | (I'm pretty used to low specs and low performance) |
| 21:44.07 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: already done |
| 21:44.11 | ratrace | good. |
| 21:44.18 | Urchin[emacs] | ratrace: anyway, thanks |
| 21:44.23 | ratrace | !next |
| 21:44.24 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 21:44.55 | r3 | is swappiness a fixed default value or is it something computed during install? |
| 21:45.05 | ratrace | default is 60 iirc |
| 21:45.22 | ratrace | (like, fixed value 60) |
| 21:45.27 | r3 | nods |
| 21:45.34 | r3 | thanks, I'll have a read |
| 21:46.40 | Casper26 | Anyone help with sambashares not listing issue? i can list shares from terminal but not file manager. |
| 21:46.55 | r3 | yeah it's 60 on my SOC-type system and 1 on my Raspbian Pi 2 - but 60 on the Pi 3 |
| 21:47.40 | ratrace | r3: that 1 is either manually set or Raspbian does something Debian does not, during installation |
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| 21:54.44 | seekr | ratrace: "Refurbished: HGST HUS726060ALA640 Ultrastar He6 (Helium Platform) 6TB 7200RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5inch Internal Enterprise Hard Drive" - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA5AD8P41718 |
| 21:57.21 | r3 | ratrace: aye, I might have actually set the Pi 2 to never swap (??) as it runs off an SD card |
| 21:58.08 | r3 | but that belongs over in #raspbian and not here :) Good to know - good reading conversation and solution - well done |
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| 22:01.21 | seekr | ratrace: https://termbin.com/tue9 |
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| 22:07.28 | ratrace | seekr: those are probably PMR |
| 22:08.11 | ratrace | seekr: SMR are usually very much labeled as such because their application is limited to cold storage or profiles with very little or no random write access |
| 22:08.39 | seekr | ratrace: good - guess I'll have to contact WD, which I think owns HGST, to be sure |
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| 22:12.23 | ryouma | i thought almost everythign was smr these days :( for consumers |
| 22:12.37 | r3 | Urchin[emacs]: I wonder if mounting your filesystem with the 'noatime' option would help your machine? True, it wouldn't have the last access time of files, but ? might help |
| 22:12.56 | ryouma | would you call rsync random write? |
| 22:13.21 | ryouma | is that much better htan relatime? |
| 22:13.36 | ryouma | relatime is default in debian i think |
| 22:13.37 | r3 | ryouma: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3769263/are-rsync-operations-atomic-at-file-level |
| 22:13.53 | Urchin | r3: completely irrelevant |
| 22:14.05 | r3 | ok then, just a thought. |
| 22:14.06 | ratrace | r3: probably not, relatime is default and that basically writes an atime timestamp once per 24 hours |
| 22:14.15 | seekr | ryouma: afaik, rsync runs at a different level than what's involved in doing actual writes |
| 22:14.43 | ryouma | not sure that answer my q? |
| 22:14.53 | ryouma | or at least i am not getting it |
| 22:14.55 | Urchin | r3: I'm using XFS, BTW |
| 22:15.12 | ratrace | ryouma: gods no, SMR would be very very very slow on random IO with even a bit written |
| 22:15.17 | seekr | ryouma: rsync is only involved in getting stuff from here to there - whether random reads and/or writes are required has to do with the devices involved |
| 22:15.25 | ratrace | thing is, modern drives are so fast that WD is now selling some SMR ones as PMR |
| 22:15.52 | r3 | was just a passing thought from some dusty memory, cheers |
| 22:16.07 | ryouma | sure has introduced confusion |
| 22:16.10 | ryouma | (smr) |
| 22:16.20 | ratrace | they're of course very slow drives, but for typical consumer use case that's probably unnoticeable. dunno what they're thinking. https://www.techpowerup.com/265841/some-western-digital-wd-red-hdds-allegedly-use-smr-a-big-nono-for-nas-and-raid |
| 22:17.06 | ratrace | it's simple really. with SMR sectors are overlapped in a "zone". A zone can be 128MB. so if you write a single page of 4k in there, the drive has to re-read and re-write the whole zone. |
| 22:17.16 | ryouma | i'd like to use portable drives as boot and root and home drives, not merely as "write and then restore", but i think they are mostly or all smr |
| 22:17.32 | ratrace | reading however is different, as it's capable of reading "narrow", that is individual tracks, in the overlapped shingle |
| 22:17.57 | ryouma | also, i'd like to be able to unplug right after writing, which would be inhibited by smr reshuffling in prinicple |
| 22:18.33 | ratrace | not only that but filesystems have metadata so even what you think is sequential write (eg. rsync writing stuff) is actually random IO, especially in a SMR zone of such size |
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| 22:19.04 | ryouma | that was what i was getting at |
| 22:19.14 | ryouma | in my q |
| 22:19.40 | seekr | ratrace, ryouma - yeah - gotta grab blocks from the free list and update inodes |
| 22:19.47 | ratrace | ideally the kernel needs to be aware of the zone and reschedule IO before it sends out to disk to minimize zone rewrites |
| 22:20.22 | ryouma | can debian mark this necessity so the kernel can do it? i suppose debian stable kernels might not ahve that capability. |
| 22:20.27 | seekr | methinks the only non-random reading or writing involves devices like tape drives |
| 22:22.04 | ratrace | https://events.static.linuxfound.org/sites/events/files/slides/lemoal-Linux-SMR-vault-2017.pdf |
| 22:25.51 | ratrace | also worth mentioning: https://medium.com/linux-gossip/zonefs-yet-another-open-source-linux-filesystem-a876f81b31b6 |
| 22:26.59 | seekr | ratrace: Thanks for all the good info! Now I have to add another item to my to-do list to learn enough to be able to understand it all. :) |
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| 22:45.58 | fred1807 | is Debian ready for the Y2K38 ? |
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| 22:47.25 | ryouma | fred1807: if you mean the kernel, you could try it using the date command |
| 22:47.33 | ragouel | fred1807: Ask again in 18 years. |
| 22:47.52 | ratrace | current debian versions are unlikely to be supported by then. and it's really the question of whether the kernel is Y2K38 ready, and .... it isn't |
| 22:47.55 | ryouma | if you mean every language including awk and bash/dash and so on, seems unlikely |
| 22:48.26 | ryouma | every script in every languyage |
| 22:49.25 | ratrace | actually, I take that back. as of 5.6, time_t is 64-bit even on 32-bit systems, so yeah, it's ready. I wonder who will run 32-bit in 2038 tho |
| 22:50.27 | fred1807 | arm boards (raspberry pis, etc) running today's debian, may break if not updated? |
| 22:51.18 | ratrace | whoever runs 18 year old rpi with unsupported old debian, will have much bigger problems than time_t expiring |
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| 22:51.59 | otyugh | hey |
| 22:52.07 | ryouma | i was concerned about airplanes and y2k. turned out to be nothing. |
| 22:52.18 | annadane | the world ended in 2012, everything since is a simulation |
| 22:52.18 | ryouma | altohuhg, my hp200lx had a minor glitch |
| 22:52.34 | annadane | well, it was nothing because they did a lot of work to mitigate the issues |
| 22:52.51 | ryouma | right, presumably |
| 22:53.20 | ryouma | it was a deeply personal decision i had to make about whether to allow somebody to fly |
| 22:53.36 | otyugh | to change language I tried to use "dpkg-reconfigure locales", then chose fr_FR.UTF8 ; then chose fr_FR as first. Then reboot. LANG and a few other are set correctly, but why is LC_TIME still with en_US.UTF-8 ? |
| 22:53.37 | fred1807 | ratrace: So you think a little robot *should* break in 18 years? |
| 22:54.08 | ratrace | do YOU have any 18 yr old computers still running, around? |
| 22:54.25 | fred1807 | ratrace: If I was building sattelites , I would not hire you |
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| 22:55.49 | ratrace | that's okay, NASA would :) https://spacenews.com/how-long-should-a-satellite-last/ |
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| 22:57.10 | ryouma | space station uses old processors |
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| 22:57.42 | ratrace | space station is constantly maintained and parts overhauled. |
| 22:57.47 | ratrace | *THE space station, ISS. |
| 22:57.51 | ryouma | nuclear power plants allegedly use old processors, to the point of core memory instead of regular ram |
| 22:57.55 | binaryhermit | there were some other minor glitches regarding y2k |
| 22:58.13 | binaryhermit | but they fixed as many "important" things as they could |
| 22:58.32 | binaryhermit | IIRC a lot of dates accidentally got the year formatted as 20100 |
| 22:58.37 | binaryhermit | or was it 19100? |
| 22:58.56 | ryouma | yes pdp-11 in nuclear power plants |
| 22:59.08 | fred1807 | ratrace: You are out of the business for space probes then |
| 22:59.24 | ratrace | probably not as I wouldn't put a 32-bit system into one |
| 22:59.28 | ryouma | that rings a bell on my hp200lx. i think it was dos dir command or something. |
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| 23:01.34 | ratrace | fred1807: you're using highly specialized, very expensive and, I'll repeat, highly specialized equipment to drive a point for consumer grade, orders of orders of orders of magnitude cheper home computers. that just doesn't work. |
| 23:03.35 | binaryhermit | and fwiw, 64 bit time pushes it into the range of 4 billion years from now |
| 23:03.48 | fred1807 | ratrace: You are missing the point. I said if I was a contractor, I would not hire you after you said in the interview nobody should be using a 18 years old computer. I don't like this mind set. I believe we should do our best to build things to last. You are not making into our space team Ratrace, better chance next time. |
| 23:03.57 | binaryhermit | which... is fair to say "not our problem", humanity likely won't exist then |
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| 23:05.04 | ratrace | fred1807: 18 years is a LOT of time for technology. not because it wouldn't last that long, but because it evolves so fast that 18 years is ancient history for tech |
| 23:05.27 | ratrace | if it didn't evolve, I'm sure that rpi could probably operate for many more years, assuming the components wouldn't break |
| 23:05.45 | ryouma | my current box is 12+yo |
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| 23:08.21 | ratrace | well I have a 30 year old ATARI ST that still works... what can I do with it though. |
| 23:09.12 | binaryhermit | ratrace: paperweight? projectile? |
| 23:09.21 | binaryhermit | retro games? |
| 23:10.12 | fred1807 | ratrace: You could play the games it was designed for? |
| 23:10.14 | ratrace | binaryhermit: problem is, floppies are dead : |
| 23:10.27 | binaryhermit | I... |
| 23:10.30 | binaryhermit | not going there |
| 23:10.40 | fred1807 | I have an original floppy version of Star Control I |
| 23:11.02 | fred1807 | Wonder if there is magnet data on it? |
| 23:11.07 | ratrace | I have orig floppies too. I actually tried to boot some last year, didn't work |
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| 23:11.48 | fred1807 | 50 years old vinyl music, still works fine, that is some clever designed tech |
| 23:12.08 | ratrace | even CDs from 15 years ago won't work for me. the home burned CDs, not the industry pressed ones |
| 23:12.50 | fred1807 | https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/timeline/#event-voyager-1-launches |
| 23:13.02 | ratrace | last year I tried to see what's on a backup CD I had from 15 years ago, and the silver layer in it crumbled to dust. literally. |
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| 23:49.41 | kristijonas | hi! sorry if my question might sound too basic and trivial, but what does 'dependency' actually means (dependent, but how?) ? i'm not a programmer. But does it normally mean that package x has a binary and needs a shared (dynamic) library that comes from another package? |
| 23:50.11 | sney | that's not a bad summary, at least at the basic level |
| 23:50.17 | sney | !policy |
| 23:50.17 | dpkg | policy is the document that defines how Debian packages should (and must!) interact with each other and with the user to make sure we have a high-quality, stable distribution. You can find it at http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ or in the debian-policy package. Those who fail to understand Debian Policy are doomed to reimplement it, poorly. See also <best practices> <nmg> <mentors>. |
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| 23:53.48 | kristijonas | sney: "Every package must specify the dependency information about other packages that are required for the first to work correctly. For example, a dependency entry must be provided for any shared libraries required by a dynamically-linked executable binary in a package." (3.5). Alright, pretty much what I said. Okay... |
| 23:55.40 | sney | you also see it with splitting binary and text files from one piece of software. for instance foo-bin (/usr/bin/foo, compiled for amd64) could depend on foo-common (/etc/foo, arch:all) |
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