| 00:00.16 | somiaj | so for future times, you could just run all your shells with history -a (from .bashrc/profile) to append commands as they are typed |
| 00:00.49 | g0zzy | Any good wheezes for running badblocks over ssh and being able to disconnect and still get a good progress report later? I'm nohup sudo badblocks -sv -n -o /tmp/bb.log /dev/sdb2 and that really doesn't play nicely with nohup.out |
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| 00:01.40 | sney | g0zzy: I don't know what you mean by "wheezes" but a standard way to do that would be with screen or tmux |
| 00:02.01 | sney | you can run a command in one of those, disconnect, and reattach to the same session later |
| 00:02.20 | woenx | My internet connection also goes now through a openvpn server installed in that nas, and it crashes all the time |
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| 00:02.26 | woenx | I can't even load facebook sometimes |
| 00:03.02 | g0zzy | Thanks, but would that play nice with the progress indicator? |
| 00:03.15 | sney | shouldn't affect it at all |
| 00:03.21 | g0zzy | RIght |
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| 00:56.11 | Gigglebyte | I am trying to burn Debian to a USB, but xfburn isn't recognizing a USB as a valid media? Any thoughts on what I can use? Or what I can do? |
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| 00:57.36 | sney | Gigglebyte: the relevant manual page is here https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch04s03.en.html |
| 00:58.00 | sney | you just need that cp command and the following sync. the image is already prepared for usb so there is no need for a complicated utility |
| 01:02.13 | Gigglebyte | sney> Well I followed instructions and ran dmesg, but not sure I accomplished anything. dmesg sees the Patriot Memory stick, and towards the end of the report it suggest the drive is sdb. However, the drive isn't detected by xfburn. Am I correct that Xfburn doesn't recognize USBs? |
| 01:02.48 | dvs | Gigglebyte, you're not supposed to use xfburn |
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| 01:03.02 | dvs | xfburn is for actual CD/DVDs |
| 01:03.06 | Gigglebyte | dvs> What am I supposed to use in order to burn the disk? |
| 01:03.19 | Gigglebyte | that is burn the disk to USB.... |
| 01:03.23 | dvs | Gigglebyte, sney just said cp and sync |
| 01:03.33 | sney | yes it's right there on the page I linked |
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| 01:08.26 | bigfluff | Hello friends! Quick feel-out of the room, how well-regarded (and perhaps well-supported) is the MATE desktop environment under Debian? |
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| 01:09.42 | annadane | as well as anything else |
| 01:09.51 | annadane | desktops aren't inherently more or less supported than any other |
| 01:10.02 | sney | bigfluff: it's been in debian for the last few releases and I haven't personally seen any major complaints. you can check popcon.debian.org for statistics and bugs.debian.org to see what problems have been reported |
| 01:10.06 | Gigglebyte | trying to find the path to the file to cp |
| 01:10.31 | annadane | debian isn't like the ubuntu system where you have kubuntu lubuntu and so on |
| 01:10.55 | sney | Gigglebyte: if you downloaded the iso with your browser it's probably ~/Downloads/debian-someversion-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 01:11.07 | Gigglebyte | yes |
| 01:11.20 | annadane | MATE's also the only desktop i've personally seen that's gotten backports |
| 01:11.42 | annadane | (though really how much do you really need in a desktop...) |
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| 01:15.11 | Gigglebyte | getting a no stat error message indicating no such file or directory |
| 01:16.08 | sney | what command are you running exactly? |
| 01:16.39 | Gigglebyte | cp ~/home/pdq/Downloads/debian-10.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso /dev/sdb |
| 01:17.27 | sney | you don't need the ~ if you are specifying /home/pdq |
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| 01:17.35 | dvs | Gigglebyte, why would you use "~/home"? |
| 01:17.50 | Gigglebyte | dvs> What should I be using? |
| 01:18.18 | dvs | Gigglebyte, no "~" |
| 01:18.40 | Gigglebyte | dvs> I tried it with no ~ and received the same error message. It can't find the path. |
| 01:18.57 | dvs | Gigglebyte, or "~/Downloads/debian-10.4.0-amd64-netinst.sio" |
| 01:19.08 | dvs | Gigglebyte, or "~/Downloads/debian-10.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso" |
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| 01:19.40 | sney | or 'cd Downloads' and then run 'cp debian-10.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso /dev/sdb' |
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| 01:23.13 | incal | hello, how do you install another Unix' man pages? I got the man pages from SunOS 5.10 and put them in /usr/share/man and the dir sunos, and now it works with e.g. 'man -m sunos calendar'. but then I did the same with the man pages from OpenBSD, i.e. /usr/share/man/openbsd but 'man -m openbsd calendar' still shows the system default and not the OpenBSD page despite a /usr/share/man/openbsd/man1/calendar.1 file - ideas? TIA |
| 01:23.14 | shreerama | tmate is displaying ssh key not generated ? how to generate ssh key for tmate & run it successfully |
| 01:23.16 | dvs | even better! |
| 01:24.23 | Gigglebyte | the correct path is Downloads/debian-10.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 01:25.01 | dvs | Gigglebyte, what is your current directory? |
| 01:25.11 | nvz | incal: did you update the database? |
| 01:25.29 | nvz | if you notice when installing packages, they always update the mandb after installing |
| 01:25.32 | Gigglebyte | I am in the home directory. I am at the next step, and trying t copy the firmware to a separate partition. |
| 01:25.47 | Gigglebyte | nvz> I ran sync |
| 01:26.07 | incal | nvz: did 'sudo mandb -c' if that's what you mean? |
| 01:26.11 | dvs | Gigglebyte, it would have been better to use the firmware iso |
| 01:26.35 | Gigglebyte | dvs> location? |
| 01:26.41 | dvs | !firmware iso |
| 01:26.41 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
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| 01:31.27 | incal | ah, it DOES work, I got fooled by the footer, but maybe it is the OpenBSD _man_ that adds that because it ain't in the man page |
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| 01:58.40 | Gigglebyte | I am trying to find the firmware for a Toshia Satellite. Any idea where it is? |
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| 01:59.26 | abrotman | the toshiba website? |
| 01:59.37 | annadane | resists urge to say "in space" |
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| 02:24.31 | foul_owl_ | How do I get pulseaudio to redetect my sound card after it "lost" it ? |
| 02:24.47 | foul_owl_ | Tried restarting with "pulseaudio --kill" but no luck |
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| 02:26.01 | foul_owl_ | Also, is "pulseaudio --kill" supposed to restart pulseaudio? I still see "/usr/bin/pulseaudio" running but the pid has changed |
| 02:27.24 | sney | that would indicate a restart |
| 02:27.36 | Gigglebyte | dvs> I am a bit lost |
| 02:28.06 | sney | foul_owl_: anyway, I know this is debian, but whenever I have odd pulse problems I go here first https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio/Troubleshooting |
| 02:29.19 | foul_owl_ | Thank you |
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| 02:29.52 | foul_owl_ | I realize that a new PID would indicate a restart, but how is pulseaudio stopped then if "kill" == "restart" ? |
| 02:30.15 | foul_owl_ | The docs indicate that a restart is done with both --kill and --start: https://wiki.debian.org/PulseAudio#Restarting_the_Pulseaudio_Daemon |
| 02:30.44 | foul_owl_ | So if something is starting pulseaudio after a --kill, that would indicate to me that something is seriously wrong with my system |
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| 02:31.08 | sney | well, except pulse is managed as a user unit by systemd |
| 02:32.03 | foul_owl_ | Ah so systemd keeps trying to start it then? |
| 02:32.05 | InnovAnon-Inc | systemctl stop pulseaudio? |
| 02:32.24 | dvs | Gigglebyte, I don't know what firmware you're refering to. |
| 02:32.26 | foul_owl_ | Sorry, I was just following the docs: https://wiki.debian.org/PulseAudio#Restarting_the_Pulseaudio_Daemon looks like those docs are wrogn |
| 02:32.31 | sney | that's one of an init service's jobs, yes |
| 02:33.31 | foul_owl_ | Of course. Is Debian 10 configured to start pulseaudio if it sees it die? |
| 02:34.29 | Gigglebyte | dvs> Instructions at https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch04s03.en.html indicate I should install firmware. Laptop is a Toshiba Satellite. The person who I am trying to help has Windows Vista installed on it, and I suggested putting Debian linux. |
| 02:35.14 | foul_owl_ | My main issue is that pavucontrol will randomly show "Establishing connection to PulseAudio. Please wait..." |
| 02:35.32 | foul_owl_ | So it seems to me that something on my system is randomly screwing with pulseaudio |
| 02:35.50 | Gigglebyte | I ran lsblk and it shows sdb is mounted, but not sure if anything was successfully copied into it. |
| 02:37.08 | dvs | Gigglebyte, the firmware.iso already has firmware on it so there's no need to install it separately. |
| 02:37.36 | dvs | Gigglebyte, second /dev/sdb is the entire disk, not a partition. |
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| 02:39.40 | sgo11 | hi, I have different servers named "foo" in different networks. Everything is fine except ssh. Everytime I ssh in to a different foo server, I have to remove the line from .ssh/known_hosts due to different keys. Can I add muliple keys to known_hosts for a single server name somehow? or how to workaround it? Thanks. |
| 02:39.43 | Gigglebyte | dvs> I'm having trouble making the disk bootable. |
| 02:40.10 | dvs | Gigglebyte, the installer or after the install? |
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| 02:42.45 | Gigglebyte | dvs> I cp the installer to the disk, but don't know if it was successful. However, I couldn't make the thing bootable. |
| 02:43.01 | dvs | Gigglebyte, did you run sync afterwards? |
| 02:44.10 | Gigglebyte | yes |
| 02:44.47 | dvs | Gigglebyte, then you should be about to mount /dev/sdb1 and see the install files. |
| 02:44.50 | Gigglebyte | dvs> Shouldn't the following command have worked to make the disk bootable: install-mbr /dev/sdX? |
| 02:45.11 | Gigglebyte | dvs> Its called sdb, and not sdb1 |
| 02:45.21 | dvs | Gigglebyte, the cp command should already make the disk bootable. |
| 02:45.32 | dvs | no need to do anything else. |
| 02:47.14 | Gigglebyte | dvs> Its booting. |
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| 02:50.16 | Gigglebyte | dvs> Its installing |
| 02:50.43 | dvs | good |
| 02:52.39 | Gigglebyte | dvs> I'm trying to figure out if I have a wep or wpa network. |
| 02:53.06 | dvs | You don't know? Who's router is it? |
| 02:54.03 | Gigglebyte | dvs> Charter Communications (Spectrum) |
| 02:54.23 | dvs | Chances are it's wpa. |
| 02:55.14 | foul_owl_ | Anyone know how to stop pavucontrol from "flickering" ? The gui will randomly pop between normal state and "Establishing connection to PulseAudio. Please wait..." up to several times per second |
| 02:56.01 | foul_owl_ | Sometimes it slows down to once every few seconds |
| 02:59.57 | foul_owl_ | 12 years later, pulseaudio is still a POS :( |
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| 03:01.54 | foul_owl_ | Time to remove it once again I think |
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| 03:07.17 | nvz | Gigglebyte: unless your wireless AP device is like 20 years old, you are using wpa |
| 03:07.47 | nvz | wep transmitted the password in plain text, it fell out of fashion a long time ago |
| 03:08.21 | nvz | WPA isn't even used really anymore.. its WPA2 now |
| 03:08.47 | dvs | and even WPA2 has been cracked |
| 03:09.32 | nvz | with aes/tkip? |
| 03:10.40 | dvs | Yes, there's some sort of flaw with the protocol itself. |
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| 03:11.51 | nvz | shrugs |
| 03:12.05 | nvz | I haven't hacked wifi in a long time.. |
| 03:12.29 | nvz | since verizon stopped making it so easy you could do it with a pencil and paper |
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| 03:26.31 | Gigglebyte | nvz> I am trying to configure the partitions, but encountered a problem. 120 GB of the 160 GB is how showing up as unusable . So far I have configured root, home, usr, and var. All were setup as primary partitions. |
| 03:28.21 | Gigglebyte | Any idea on how I can make the unusable 120 GB usable? |
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| 03:44.07 | shreerama | in prometheous , they say it collects real-time metrics |
| 03:44.27 | shreerama | what is 'Metric' here |
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| 04:12.57 | shreerama | help |
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| 04:14.11 | bomb | welcome back shreerama |
| 04:14.20 | sgo11 | how to add a key to .ssh/known_host from a pub key file? |
| 04:14.51 | sgo11 | In the old days, ip/hostnames are not hashed. I can simply copy and paste. In current days, they are all hashed. How to add it properly? Thanks. |
| 04:14.53 | bomb | you copy/paste it |
| 04:15.08 | bomb | wot |
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| 04:16.13 | bomb | that's news to me sgo11 but ssh-keyscan seems to be the tool you need |
| 04:17.28 | sgo11 | bomb: thanks. I will see the manpage. I am checking ssh-keygen manpage. It can add keys by requesting keys from remote server. but don't find a way to do it from a file. |
| 04:26.38 | jim | how would I get the intel_pstate driver? or, do I already have it under a (slightly) different name? |
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| 05:12.01 | sgo11 | What is the advantage of hashing hostnames/IPs in known_hosts? That just casues too much troubles. |
| 05:13.24 | jmcnaught | So there's no roadmap to other systems if your account gets compromised. |
| 05:15.20 | sgo11 | jmcnaught: what do you mean by roadmap? They are just public keys. public keys are public. Everyone can know it. What's so dangerous if anyone know my server's public keys? |
| 05:15.34 | sgo11 | Everyone can know https public keys. That is how it works. |
| 05:15.37 | jmcnaught | ~/.ssh might also contain keys, if known_hosts is hashed it's a little harder to figure out what other systems they now have access to. |
| 05:15.37 | apt | jmcnaught: what are you talking about? |
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| 05:17.07 | sgo11 | ok, I get the ideas. they knew the private keys. but if they don't know the hostnames, they don't know where to access. ok. kinda make sense. |
| 05:17.54 | jmcnaught | sgo11: are you trying to clean up known_hosts? |
| 05:20.03 | sgo11 | If they know my private keys and hacked my OS, I don't think it's so hard for them to know my server hostnames. but it makes sense now. |
| 05:21.32 | sgo11 | jmcnaught: yeah, I am rececking all the known_hosts to have the right keys. Because I am using some kinda VPN service (hosted by third-party) to access the Internet. I just want to make sure those keys are the correct ones from my server to avoid man in the middle attach. I need to use third-party VPN to bypass the GFW (firewall). |
| 05:21.54 | sgo11 | s/attach/attach/ |
| 05:22.00 | sgo11 | s/attach/attack/ |
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| 06:08.26 | mi11k1 | can somebody pls help me find a better hack for this? I have a script just in my home right now that does this "sudo netdiscover -r 10.42.0.0/24 -i wlan0 -PN > /tmp/ips.tmp" |
| 06:08.42 | mi11k1 | i have a line in my conky that cats this file every 60 |
| 06:09.01 | mi11k1 | i tried to make a crontab to run the script every 30 mins |
| 06:09.21 | mi11k1 | i get permission denied when I try and run the cron manually |
| 06:09.42 | ksk | mi11k1: did you setup a crontab for root, or did you inlcude "sudo" in a users crontab? try the first |
| 06:09.53 | mi11k1 | crontab -e |
| 06:09.57 | mi11k1 | so my user |
| 06:10.03 | mi11k1 | but, the sudo |
| 06:10.23 | mi11k1 | I made a edit in sudoers to run netdiscover without having to put pass |
| 06:10.29 | mi11k1 | for sudo |
| 06:10.32 | ksk | If you define a root crontab containing your script, its the exact same result security wise. |
| 06:10.51 | ksk | the environment in crontab is much different from your users shell, thats the problem here. |
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| 06:11.10 | mi11k1 | so, just make it root? i was just trying it. ive never used crontabs before |
| 06:11.20 | ksk | You should be able to make it work if you do it correctly, but creating a root crontab entry in the first place is much easier, and does not come with any (security) drawbacks in that scenario imho |
| 06:11.54 | mi11k1 | ok, will try. |
| 06:12.07 | ksk | you just do "crontab -e" as root, and leave out the sudo in front of y our command - be aware that the "> tmp/ips.tmp" will then be owned by root though. |
| 06:13.06 | ksk | if root does create files with read permissions for others you are fine. if not you either alter umask (to change which rights files have on creation, systemwide), or you do a little "chown/chmod" to the file after you created it. |
| 06:13.32 | mi11k1 | shown/chmod works for me, thx |
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| 06:16.53 | mi11k1 | ksk, worked. thanks |
| 06:16.59 | ksk | !next |
| 06:17.00 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 06:17.13 | mi11k1 | i was happy when i came in. |
| 06:17.20 | ksk | :) |
| 06:17.45 | InnovAnon-Inc | you could just create the file as non-root in the first place: <command-as-root> | sudo -u <non-root> tee tmp/ips.tmp > /dev/null |
| 06:17.46 | mi11k1 | the real problem is me and dns |
| 06:18.09 | ksk | mi11k1: then, maybe, lets start with: What are you trying to do in the first place? |
| 06:18.26 | mi11k1 | thats it. |
| 06:18.31 | ksk | Wardriving? :D |
| 06:18.39 | mi11k1 | i just dont use hostnames on my network |
| 06:18.48 | mi11k1 | and that maybe |
| 06:19.17 | mi11k1 | playin with wifite. wps attacks dont do anything these days |
| 06:20.08 | mi11k1 | i have a bunch of vm's, if i dont touch it for a week, its foreign |
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| 06:24.03 | mi11k1 | ksk, for wardriving its easier to just login to their router and get the dhcp list |
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| 06:25.01 | mi11k1 | maybe upgrade some firmware and a reboot |
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| 06:35.11 | velix | Oh dear... I've got an JAVA application, which needs OpenJDK8. For god's sake, we have NVIDIA: https://packages.debian.org/buster/nvidia-openjdk-8-jre |
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| 07:01.33 | savantgarde | Does anyone know how to force gpg (v2.1.18) in Debian Stretch to read the password from a file, and not ask the user? My options would work under Ubuntu, but no matter what I do, on Stretch it will always prompt the user |
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| 07:02.55 | savantgarde | Since I invoke it via `rpm --addsign`, I've configured it in ~/.rpmmacros: `%_gpg_sign_cmd_extra_args --batch --yes --no-tty --pinentry-mode loopback --passphrase-file /tmp/gpg-pass` |
| 07:02.57 | ksk | savantgarde: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/60213/gpg-asks-for-password-even-with-passphrase -- looks promising |
| 07:03.20 | savantgarde | Thanks ksk - I read the answers yesterday though, and couldn't solve it |
| 07:03.31 | savantgarde | I can take another look, it's driving me up the wall |
| 07:03.43 | ksk | you tried piping the password in combination with "--passphrase-fd"? |
| 07:04.04 | savantgarde | I tried just earlier, let me have another go |
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| 07:07.26 | savantgarde | I tried configuring it with `--passphrase-fd 0` in ~/.rpmmacros, still wants to prompt the user: `cat /tmp/gpg-pass| rpm --addsign -v file.rpm` |
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| 07:09.24 | ksk | I am not aware of the relation beteween .rpmmacros and gpg tbh. |
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| 07:11.43 | savantgarde | Yeah, that's another complication |
| 07:11.58 | savantgarde | RPM isn't the user friendliest software :/ |
| 07:12.09 | savantgarde | I'm going to read up more on ~/.rpmmacros |
| 07:14.17 | ksk | Does this btw mean, that you are building rpms on Debian? I am not that into packaging, but as fas I know you kind of build on $target_system - at least if you need to pull in anything library related (which needs to match the system) |
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| 07:17.54 | gryffus | Is it possible to use pressed even with graphical installer? It works for me only for the ncurses one... |
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| 07:22.56 | savantgarde | ksk: Yes, I am packaging RPMs on Debian as part of a CI pipeline |
| 07:23.12 | savantgarde | The binaries are portable though |
| 07:23.40 | ksk | I only know things like: if you want to build a package for say debian buster, you build it on buster ;) |
| 07:23.44 | savantgarde | It's only GPG that's tripping this up, it used to work on Ubuntu, but trying now to switch to Debian |
| 07:24.03 | ksk | might be that this debian gpg binary is of an older version? |
| 07:24.04 | savantgarde | We use Stretch in order to make the binaries compatible with older Linuxes |
| 07:24.30 | savantgarde | I thought of the same regarding gpg version, but upgrading to the one in stretch-backports didn't help |
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| 07:24.46 | savantgarde | The one in stretch-backports is still slightly old, so I can try building gpg from source |
| 07:25.13 | InnovAnon-Inc | it might be easier to sign the packages with a gpg key that doesn't require a password... unless I missed something |
| 07:25.14 | ksk | could also be related to some system-wide gpg config rather than just the binary version? (wildly guessing here..) |
| 07:25.27 | savantgarde | I'm also wondering about that |
| 07:25.44 | savantgarde | InnovAnon-Inc: Not sure if it's a good idea or not; the key we have requires a password |
| 07:26.08 | savantgarde | ksk: I was also wondering if I might be hit by a system-wide config, since I did make it work on Ubuntu |
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| 08:02.05 | *** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.4 point release /msg dpkg 10.4; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.12 ; 9.12 needs dist-upgrade | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 08:06.06 | savantgarde | Installed the latest gpg from source, same behaviour |
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| 08:17.03 | savantgarde | Wow, I might have got it working |
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| 08:17.27 | rccc | Hello |
| 08:18.28 | rccc | i have one local server, hostname is 'diogene' |
| 08:18.32 | savantgarde | I used `%__gpg_sign_cmd` instead of `%_gpg_sign_cmd_extra_args` in ~/.rpmmacros, since I suspected that `rpm` wasn't applying the extra args |
| 08:19.04 | rccc | from my computer i can use my browser and type 'diogene.local' to get the web app on this server |
| 08:19.23 | rccc | but i want to type 'my.app', not 'diogene.local' |
| 08:20.01 | rccc | so i put 192.168.1.127 my.app oin /etc/hosts on my computer but this does not works... |
| 08:24.03 | gryffus | Please could anyone review and remove redundant lines from my preseed.cfg? https://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/14241239 |
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| 08:25.09 | gryffus | I am not sure what is the difference between partman-auto/automatically_partition and partman-auto/init_automatically_partition, between partman-auto/disk and partman-auto/select_disk and so on... |
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| 08:29.32 | rccc | although i put 192.168.1.127 my.app in /etc/hosts i can reach my local server(in browser) via 192.168.1.127 but not with 'my.app' |
| 08:29.59 | rccc | command 'host my.app' give me 192.168.1.127 ... |
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| 08:33.35 | rccc | maybe the ip server should be static .. |
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| 08:45.28 | Haohmaru | gryffus i had to websearch what preseed is, and within 5 minutes i found this, which might be useful for you perhaps? https://preseed.debian.net/debian-preseed/ |
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| 08:46.13 | Haohmaru | there are big text files containing "options" and brief explanations, ctrl+f the options you want perhaps |
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| 08:48.18 | gryffus | Haohmaru, ### Description: Partitioning method: .... This is listed with both... |
| 08:48.24 | gryffus | Great explanation... |
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| 08:48.59 | mebus | Hi! If I have "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports main contrib" in my sources.list, why doesn't apt install zfs 0.8.4 if I do "apt install -t buster-backports zfs-dkms zfsutils-linux"? |
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| 08:49.20 | Haohmaru | gryffus hm? |
| 08:49.25 | mebus | For some reason I am still on 0.7.12-2+deb10u2 :-( |
| 08:49.45 | gryffus | "If you choose guided partitioning for an entire disk, you will next be asked which disk should be used." .... why would I care what I will be asked next? I need to know what exactly that option does and not what question comes next... |
| 08:50.13 | Haohmaru | oh |
| 08:50.46 | Haohmaru | maybe test it..? ;P~ |
| 08:51.23 | gryffus | Haohmaru, yeah, I will have to test every option... great thanks Debian documentation :) |
| 08:51.44 | Haohmaru | sarcasm? |
| 08:51.50 | ratrace | mebus: did you run apt udpate after enabling buster backports? |
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| 08:54.36 | gryffus | Haohmaru, well, I will have to rebuild an iso, copy to server and boot it for about 30 times because I will have to test many of the options to tell what they actually do. So yeah, the thanks is a sarcasm |
| 08:55.39 | Haohmaru | okay, well.. i can't help you |
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| 08:56.02 | gryffus | Haohmaru, well you already did, thank you :) |
| 08:56.13 | Haohmaru | i did? how? |
| 08:56.43 | gryffus | Haohmaru, that I will have to test it, that there is no documentation for Debian preside system |
| 08:56.48 | mebus | ratrace: yes |
| 08:57.05 | gryffus | s/no/no proper/ |
| 08:57.06 | Haohmaru | hold on, i didn't say there's no documentation, i have no idea whether there is or not |
| 08:57.31 | ratrace | mebus: can you pastebin apt-cache policy zfs-dkms ? because your command WorksForMe(tm) |
| 08:57.34 | gryffus | Well I am already googling it for 2 days and if even here nobody knows, I think it is fairly sure that there isn't any |
| 08:57.35 | Haohmaru | i said i websearched what "preseed" even is a few minutes ago |
| 08:58.10 | Haohmaru | i see you mentioning "preseed" and "pressed" for a bunch of days now and almost nobody responding to you |
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| 08:58.28 | Haohmaru | so i know less about preseed than you |
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| 08:58.51 | gryffus | Yep, I tried also in ubuntu but there it is even worse... Also there is #debian-boot channel, but one person there... |
| 08:59.10 | ratrace | oh zabbix... I confused that with zimbra.... lol.... was thinking wth time series on an email server |
| 08:59.17 | Haohmaru | note that the more "serious" debian channels are not on freenode but on OFTC |
| 08:59.22 | ratrace | oops wrong chan |
| 08:59.30 | Haohmaru | i am not there, no idea if you're gonna get any better help |
| 08:59.35 | Haohmaru | but you could try that |
| 08:59.44 | gryffus | Haohmaru, oh... thanks for that! |
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| 09:00.44 | Haohmaru | at worst you might be instructed to read thru the source codez of the relevant component from the installation |
| 09:00.46 | Haohmaru | aww |
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| 09:01.40 | Haohmaru | gryffus at worst you might be instructed to read thru the source codez of the relevant component from the installation |
| 09:02.08 | Haohmaru | if there really is no document explaining the things and nobody that can explain them to you |
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| 09:07.16 | frontrunnerrr | hello ! I have a specific question about my backup scenario, can I ask it here... ? My laptop came with a pre-installed WIN10 on a PCIe SSD (256GB) - I then installed debian on it, LVM with LUKS, full disk used |
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| 09:07.48 | frontrunnerrr | A week later I added one SATA drive, also 256 GB SSD |
| 09:08.07 | frontrunnerrr | and cloned the PCIe SSD to SATA, which is now boot device |
| 09:08.42 | frontrunnerrr | that allows me to use dd for backup just from a live stick; |
| 09:08.54 | ratrace | frontrunnerrr: Just try to use whole sentences in as few posts as possible, and not raid the enter key :) |
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| 09:09.38 | Haohmaru | but the caret reaches the wall | |
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| 09:10.46 | Haohmaru | ratrace i remember times when kids used the enter key instead of the spacebar, literally |
| 09:10.59 | frontrunnerrr | apt-get dist-upgrade throws errors from time to time. cryptsetup device not found, and it points to /dev/nvme0n1p5 - but everything seems to work fine. I am just trying to understand whats going on, any idea |
| 09:11.26 | ratrace | Haohmaru: I blame PEP8! |
| 09:11.38 | Haohmaru | who dat? |
| 09:12.02 | ratrace | frontrunnerrr: when that happens, look at the end of `dmesg` to see if any hardware issues are reported |
| 09:12.32 | ratrace | you can also check logs since last boot, `journalctl -k -p err` |
| 09:13.56 | frontrunnerrr | okay, good hint, let me check next time with dmesg |
| 09:16.13 | frontrunnerrr | thank you, will check both commands and try to get a better understanding of whats going on; also of the difference between space key and enter key :-) |
| 09:17.41 | DoctorD90 | Hi!Sorry, in cinnamon there is a sort of "dash to dock"? |
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| 09:20.10 | mebus | ratrace: https://gist.github.com/Mebus/ce471939aa379c62677aeae23378f08e |
| 09:20.20 | mebus | ratrace: How can I select the newer version? |
| 09:22.24 | ratrace | well, running apt install -t buster-backports zfs-dkms should work, yes |
| 09:23.27 | ratrace | mebus: please pastebin the output of `apt install -t buster-backports -s zfs-dkms` |
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| 09:24.42 | mebus | ratrace: for some reason it tried to install it now, but the kernel headers are missing, so I am installing them now first |
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| 09:48.55 | dob1 | I don't understand what I am doing wrong echo somestring_base64 |base64 -d gives me the real string but echo the_output |base64 doesn't gives me back the original string |
| 09:49.32 | dob1 | I miss '' around the string |
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| 09:58.48 | cadmio | I want to create a deb package out of my program |
| 09:59.56 | ratrace | cadmio: https://www.debian.org/doc/devel-manuals#packaging-tutorial |
| 10:00.12 | cadmio | I'm reading this: https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging/SourcePackage |
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| 10:02.00 | cadmio | I download the sources with git |
| 10:02.13 | cadmio | now apt-get --build source package_name does not work |
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| 10:04.20 | brutser | i installed minimal debian with some openbox on top, but for some reason zeitgeist is installed, is that with the minimal debian already installed? i don't need this package to collect logs on the device, this is embedded system i am developing for, how to remove this zeitgeist logger? |
| 10:05.02 | brutser | and how can i find out what caused it to be installed? |
| 10:05.32 | nkuttler | brutser: aptitude why zeitgeist |
| 10:06.41 | nkuttler | cadmio: which error do you get? |
| 10:09.27 | cadmio | nkuttler, when I do apt-get --build source package_name, what should I put in the place of "source" ? |
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| 10:10.22 | miskatonic | I certainly have no such thing as zeitgeist installed |
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| 10:12.52 | miskatonic | I do not see many reverse dependencies of zeitgeist, and most of them contain the name zeitgeist |
| 10:13.51 | nkuttler | cadmio: source |
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| 10:14.14 | cadmio | nkuttler, for example my repository? |
| 10:14.16 | nkuttler | cadmio: but that gets sources from a deb-src repository, see man 5 sources.list, i guess you don't have your source in one? |
| 10:14.24 | nkuttler | ah, perfect, yes |
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| 10:14.39 | cadmio | hte program is not in a deb repository |
| 10:14.59 | cadmio | *the |
| 10:15.01 | ratrace | cadmio: did you check the link I posted for you? |
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| 10:16.45 | miskatonic | oh, brutser is long since gone |
| 10:17.09 | ratrace | don't you just love that. |
| 10:17.41 | ratrace | you should charge them for time wasted for no reason. |
| 10:20.10 | cadmio | so I need : 1) The upstream tarball with .tar.gz ending and 2) A description file with .dsc ending. |
| 10:21.20 | miskatonic | a gopher and a lynx enter the pub ... |
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| 10:22.58 | miskatonic | wrong channel ooops |
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| 10:24.45 | ratrace | miskatonic: now I wanna hear it..... |
| 10:25.01 | Haohmaru | deploys an ear |
| 10:25.50 | miskatonic | I don't know yet how to continue it. |
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| 10:28.04 | ratrace | ... and the bartender says "you two! the dead code museum is across the street!" |
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| 10:32.19 | miskatonic | Like the BSD Lady. She sells C shells on the sea shore. |
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| 10:36.57 | cadmio | I'm reading this guide which seems more complete https://people.debian.org/~jaldhar/make_package1.html |
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| 10:44.39 | cadmio | I get E: Unable to locate package dh_make |
| 10:46.03 | towo^work | dh-make |
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| 10:49.14 | cadmio | Are the details correct? [Y/n/q] If I input n I cannot modify the |
| 10:49.16 | cadmio | m |
| 10:49.46 | Dexx1_ | I am trying to download all MP3's linked on a website/URL, but wget doesn't work - it simply says FINISHED without dowloading anything. My command: wget -r -l1 -H -nd -c -A mp3 -e robots=off https://www.audioanarchy.org/letters.html â Any ideas? |
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| 10:50.41 | Dexx1_ | I tried following this as a potential solution: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/464372/how-could-compression-be-missing-from-my-wget â but the 2nd step (apt source wget) doesn't work, I get: Unable to find a source package for wget |
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| 10:57.27 | neox_ | Hey there, do you know what is the amdgpu driver package for wayland ? There is the xorg one, but used with xorg, isn't it ? |
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| 11:01.34 | towo^work | neox_, there is no separate package for wayland needed |
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| 11:04.10 | neox_ | Ok ? I'm wondering... Because I uninstalled xorg-xserver-video-amdgpu and amdgpu is working perfectly. So is the driver included with wayland ? |
| 11:05.07 | neox_ | I verified in lspci -v and lsmod, this is the amdgpu module running |
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| 11:10.54 | velix | *hates* Java. |
| 11:12.21 | towo^work | neox_, xorg-xserver-video-amdgpu is a ddx driver |
| 11:12.36 | towo^work | i's only for x |
| 11:13.06 | towo^work | and even xserver would work without xorg-xserver-video-amdgpu installed, since there is modesetting |
| 11:13.38 | towo^work | afaik wayland works on top of KMS |
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| 11:15.28 | cadmio | why bash: debuild: command not found ? |
| 11:16.23 | towo^work | maybe because you haven't devscripts installed? |
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| 11:20.07 | cadmio | dpkg-source: info: building jac using existing ./jac_1.3.orig.tar.gz mean that I have to rm the tarball before doing debuild ? |
| 11:21.09 | jelly | only if you want to rebuild said tarball |
| 11:21.48 | jelly | if you need just the binary deb results you can ignore that |
| 11:22.50 | cadmio | this is what I got https://paste.debian.net/1149524/ |
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| 11:26.17 | cadmio | have I done something wrong? |
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| 11:28.19 | jelly | read the error lines, maybe follow them |
| 11:28.34 | jelly | info lines are not problematic |
| 11:29.49 | cadmio | have I to run debuild with sudo? |
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| 11:34.08 | cadmio | well I've created jac_1.3.orig.tar.gz is that all? |
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| 11:51.19 | brutser | i have a workstation with debian host and qemu-kvm with several debian guest vms (and some other distro's), primarily for development - now for copying text between those vm's i have spice-vdagent that works fine, but when i have some code editor opened, copy text, close the text editor - i lost the copy in memory < that is caused because of the |
| 11:51.19 | brutser | absence of a clipboard manager, right? < now my problem is, if i install the clipboard manager on the host, it seems to interfere with spice-vdagent, at least with diodon < what is a good solution here? |
| 11:52.04 | DoctorD90 | hello! in cinnamon there is any stuff like dash to dock? |
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| 13:27.17 | kodapa | hello, running debian sid. today upgrade removed some kde packages, kde-task-desktop among them. When installing kde-task-desktop again I got this:ibkpimkdav5abi2 : Depends: libkpimkdav-data (= 19.08.3-1) but it is not installable |
| 13:27.22 | kodapa | anyone saw this before? |
| 13:27.43 | karlpinc | !debian-next |
| 13:27.43 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 13:28.06 | kodapa | ah sorry, my bad I'll ask there :) |
| 13:28.09 | kodapa | thanks! |
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| 14:44.50 | ZenWalker | hi all, "dh_make -y" does't work here, "-y" as me always |
| 14:44.58 | ZenWalker | *ask me ... |
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| 14:53.44 | petn-randall | ZenWalker: It would help if you explain what you're trying to do, and what you expect and what it's doing instead. |
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| 14:55.35 | petn-randall | ZenWalker: Sharing the output for example, too. â https://paste.debian.net |
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| 15:02.40 | ThothCastel | how can I restart and force it to load a new session altogether? |
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| 15:06.06 | sney | force what to load a new session? |
| 15:08.30 | petn-randall | !context |
| 15:08.30 | dpkg | Try to give enough context! For example, let us know which command/program you are running, what you expected, and what you got instead. Try to be as specific as possible. If your command produced output, share the complete command (with all parameters!) and its output on https://paste.debian.net. |
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| 16:30.41 | saptech | hi all |
| 16:31.08 | saptech | is there a command to use to see which games are included with gnome-games? I do not want all of them |
| 16:32.02 | somiaj | saptech: apt show gnome-games will list the metapackag's dependencies |
| 16:32.13 | jmcnaught | saptech: also "apt depends gnome-games" |
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| 16:32.54 | jmcnaught | saptech: bonus Debian game meta-packages to browse here: https://blends.debian.org/games/tasks/ :) |
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| 16:34.02 | saptech | jmcnaught, thanks |
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| 16:36.05 | frabbit | what are the entries updates security a.s.o. in sources.list mean? |
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| 16:36.56 | frabbit | or what are they called? |
| 16:37.35 | jmcnaught | Are you asking what your sources.list should look like to get security updates? |
| 16:37.51 | frabbit | are they called suites? |
| 16:37.57 | frabbit | jmcnaught: nah =) |
| 16:38.17 | somiaj | also what is a.s.o? Your question doesn't make sense to me. |
| 16:38.19 | frabbit | im just interested why there are several entries instead of just one |
| 16:38.34 | frabbit | a.s.o. = and so on |
| 16:38.48 | somiaj | !buster sources.list |
| 16:38.48 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
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| 16:39.01 | frabbit | security is only for security updates? |
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| 16:39.52 | somiaj | It is just partly due to how packages migrate into buster, debian-security provides a way for secuirty fixes to migrate into buster (a frozen repo) as security issues are found, and buster-updates provides a way for stuff to be avaialble before point release for grave bug fixes. |
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| 16:40.15 | somiaj | In general buster is a frozen release, and packages in it don't change except at point releases |
| 16:40.35 | frabbit | err... |
| 16:41.19 | frabbit | release? isnt "buster" the release? |
| 16:41.51 | frabbit | or wait |
| 16:42.09 | frabbit | you wrote: debian-security provides a way for secuirty fixes to migrate into buster (a frozen repo) as security issues are found |
| 16:42.57 | frabbit | my question is why isnt there just one entry in sources.list that contains all that stuff (updates, security) |
| 16:43.06 | frabbit | i have to make 2 or 3 |
| 16:43.31 | frabbit | but all have the same url |
| 16:43.53 | frabbit | domain i mean |
| 16:44.31 | somiaj | frabbit: As the bot said, most will want 3, because they are different repos |
| 16:44.48 | jmcnaught | Well, you might not want buster-updates (bug fixes that may change how things work) so those are optional. And sómiaj already explained that security is separate because buster (and all Debian stable releases) are frozen, so a separate repo is needed for security updates. |
| 16:45.40 | jmcnaught | frabbit: https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList has some definitions and example sources.list contents that you can use. |
| 16:46.02 | petn-randall | frabbit: the security repo is only recently also on the deb.debian.org redirector. You might also want one repo but not the other ... for reasons. |
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| 16:47.18 | somiaj | Also there is no method to upload directly to a stable repo, debian packages have to follow a certain flow, and comming through secuiryt is how security fixes get into stable. |
| 16:47.20 | frabbit | hmm.. comlicated structure... |
| 16:47.29 | frabbit | *complicated |
| 16:48.08 | somiaj | Not really, just take some time to learn it, might want to start at the debian development structure, packages get uploaded to sid, migrate to testing, testing freezes, after all the rc-bugs are dealt with, testing is released and becomes frozen. |
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| 16:48.31 | gena2x | out of curiosity trying to understand how gcc is built in dpkg |
| 16:48.43 | gena2x | to build gcc you need gcc |
| 16:48.54 | gena2x | and it is built in chroot |
| 16:49.07 | gena2x | so it sort of depends on itself |
| 16:50.41 | frabbit | hmm.. but thats a lot of work that way. having a system that updates from one entry and fixes security issues and upgrade to new versions as soon as they are available is much easier to maintain isnt it? |
| 16:51.11 | frabbit | i dont say its bad how it s done, only more work |
| 16:51.21 | ravioli | is there a way to run a command and find out the maximum amount of memory consumed by that command? |
| 16:52.10 | gena2x | i do not think there is such tool, but you can record results of ps every second |
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| 16:53.11 | ravioli | it's a python script that deals with a very large text file... it takes a very short amount of time (way less than a second) but I want to see what the memory impacts of a larger version of that text file is. |
| 16:53.30 | ravioli | i'm picturing something like the time command but for memory |
| 16:53.31 | ravioli | that'd be neat |
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| 16:54.42 | jmcnaught | ravioli: I think you want a profiler like valgrind but I'm not experienced with them |
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| 16:56.10 | somiaj | seems python can also report its own memeory ussage |
| 16:56.24 | gena2x | you could do something like http://www.hexco.de/rmdebug/ |
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| 16:57.00 | gena2x | i.e find something which replaces malloc and finds the max |
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| 17:01.06 | gena2x | like this https://github.com/bingmann/malloc_count -> all you need if to create shared lib out of it and LD_PRELOAD it |
| 17:01.43 | somiaj | frabbit: there are advantages to it, having an altnerative method to get packages into stable via a security repo then allows an alternative team access to upload packages, so in some resepcts it is easier to matain since there is more control of how packages get into a frozen relese. |
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| 17:02.36 | somiaj | frabbit: but in general this is just debian's development model and policy. Buster if frozen, and packages dont' ever get uploaded directly to buster, they go through some entry point, and once stable is released, stable-updates and stable-security are the ways to get fixes into stable |
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| 17:03.07 | frabbit | somiaj: i think i just looking for rolling releases =) |
| 17:03.35 | frabbit | and all in once not split into versions and security patches only and so on |
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| 17:03.57 | frabbit | but never mind thx for ur help somiaj jmcnaught and petn-randall |
| 17:04.14 | somiaj | well debian stable is not a rolling release, it is a frozen release |
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| 17:04.19 | frabbit | yeah |
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| 17:04.41 | petn-randall | frabbit: Also rolling releases might have split repositories, there are good reasons to do so. |
| 17:04.42 | somiaj | debian doesn't offer rolling releases, though you can be a part of the development release if you want to test new things out |
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| 17:06.05 | frabbit | so in buster is gpg 2.2.12 while gpg project itself doesnt maintain this version of gpg anymore, menas debian need to maintain that old version to keep it secure |
| 17:06.38 | frabbit | *means |
| 17:06.52 | frabbit | correct? |
| 17:07.25 | gswan | lol |
| 17:07.48 | frabbit | a typo |
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| 17:08.41 | somiaj | frabbit: yes, the debian security team backports fixes to the frozen version. Often times upstream helps with this (Even if they dont' offically support the older version) |
| 17:09.22 | frabbit | and thats the more of work that i ment =) |
| 17:09.46 | somiaj | In cases this is not possible debian has had to make some exceptions. chormium/firefox don't get backports, they get new releases to fix secirty issues. and virtualbox has been removed from debian since oracle policy won't allow their team to help backport fixes (even though the team offered to do so) |
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| 17:10.04 | frabbit | petn-randall: i more think of a system, where i can get always the newest version direct from the devs of that program |
| 17:10.41 | somiaj | frabbit: It is way more work if adding a new version breaks everyones servers, frozen releases have their place and many do not want new features to fix a secirty bug. |
| 17:10.50 | somiaj | frabbit: then debian is not for you |
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| 17:11.07 | frabbit | somiaj: i undertsand that idea behind the debian structure |
| 17:11.16 | frabbit | *understand |
| 17:11.26 | greycat | If that's what you want, use upstream's code instead of Debian packages for this specific application. |
| 17:11.41 | frabbit | greycat: i think gentoo is like this? |
| 17:12.13 | frabbit | wrong tabbed |
| 17:12.26 | frabbit | greycat: what means upstream? the devs of a program? |
| 17:12.36 | greycat | If you're trying to say "Debian should be like Gentoo", just go away. |
| 17:12.42 | greycat | !upstream |
| 17:12.42 | dpkg | from memory, upstream is where Debian developers download software from. https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch03.en.html#upstream-coordination |
| 17:13.22 | frabbit | greycat: wtf?! i didnt say anything like that, i jst try to understand why distributions handles versions so differently =/ |
| 17:13.44 | frabbit | ah thats how that bot works |
| 17:13.57 | greycat | !stable |
| 17:13.57 | dpkg | [stable] The status of a Debian release when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is Buster (10.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me about <security backports>). https://wiki.debian.org/DebianStable |
| 17:14.02 | frabbit | is that irc specific? |
| 17:14.08 | somiaj | because there are different use cases, and each distro has decided on its own policies of what a release is and how it will be supported |
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| 17:14.29 | frabbit | somiaj: i see |
| 17:15.54 | petn-randall | frabbit: You're probably look for "Linux from scratch"? |
| 17:16.03 | somiaj | debian provides a well tested frozen release with 60,000+ packages, which works great in lots of use cases, and many just need a few select pieces of new software and still use debian and install the few needs from upstream. |
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| 17:16.23 | petn-randall | frabbit: Be prepared to spend weeks to get a working system, and repeat that process every time a security update comes out. |
| 17:16.26 | frabbit | and is there some statistic somewhere that shows wich structure has to do more security fixes? or debian specific: will there be (in summary) as much security fixes in a stable debian lifetime as in the same on a rolling release distro? |
| 17:17.41 | frabbit | petn-randall: with lfs? =) im sure it would be like this xD |
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| 17:20.08 | petn-randall | frabbit: There are many good reasons that no distro packages the latest and greatest from upstream. Stability being mostly the issue. |
| 17:20.53 | frabbit | petn-randall: ok. and about the security statistics? |
| 17:21.19 | greycat | Distros that shovel the latest bleeding edge crap out the door ASAP probably don't bother fixing security bugs. They just rely on upstream to fix them. |
| 17:21.27 | gena2x | living on unstable here for last i do not know 15 years, it is in fact way more stable than let's say windows... |
| 17:21.58 | gena2x | just do not update daily and there would not be much to fix. |
| 17:22.06 | ratrace | greycat: well pretty much all distros, debian included, do that. patches are ported from upstreams githubs and whatnot, unless the upstream is dead or unresponsive which is rare |
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| 17:22.38 | ratrace | perhaps you meant those distros (you mentioned) don't bother (back)porting cherry picked paches, but rely on upstream version bumps |
| 17:22.47 | greycat | yes, that's what I mean |
| 17:23.21 | frabbit | greycat: im more interessted in getting the software directly from the devs and they will probably fix security issues first arent they? |
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| 17:23.35 | greycat | ... then use something other than Debian. |
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| 17:23.42 | gena2x | gentoo |
| 17:23.49 | frabbit | gena2x: so gentoo =) |
| 17:23.51 | ratrace | frabbit: note that some (many?) will also add new (untested) features as well |
| 17:24.01 | frabbit | ratrace: sure |
| 17:24.44 | ratrace | frabbit: there's slackware if you want pristine upstream packages, and archlinux if you want most bleeding edge churn |
| 17:25.05 | petn-randall | frabbit: distros have certain policies for quality control, and act upon upstream software to ensure that this quality is ensured. So Debian for examples patches out problematic tracking out of chromium, or straight out refuses to package certain software due to lack of quality. |
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| 17:25.22 | petn-randall | frabbit: If you fetch straight from upstream you'll have to do all that triaging yourself. |
| 17:25.24 | ratrace | gentoo is not bleeding edge, it's a rolling release that has a stable branch (default). some pacakges are older in gentoo than they're in debian for example |
| 17:26.03 | greycat | ##linux is the best place to get an unbiased review of various Linux distributions |
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| 17:27.52 | frabbit | petn-randall: i see. but "fetching ou problematic tracking" is a bad way to handle shitty google software ;) better policy would be to avoid software that comes wich such "features" then fixing them... |
| 17:28.07 | frabbit | ratrace: interessting |
| 17:28.16 | frabbit | greycat: i see thx |
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| 17:30.00 | petn-randall | frabbit: Sure, but then you would have to remove 95% of all software in Debian. |
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| 17:30.37 | frabbit | petn-randall: yeah thats a good thing, cause then you can concentrate on the good software =) |
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| 17:31.05 | frabbit | i avoid shitty software as good as i can |
| 17:31.31 | frabbit | petn-randall: but ur really sure 95% |
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| 17:32.14 | frabbit | i mean that would mean the most upstream stuff is crap and need to get fixed or qualify by debian maintainers... |
| 17:32.55 | ratrace | and that's about correct state of things :) |
| 17:33.51 | frabbit | ratrace: ah.. sorry cant translate that. can u rephrase it for me please? |
| 17:34.01 | ratrace | all software sucks. some just sucks more. |
| 17:34.02 | petn-randall | frabbit: Yes. upstream can't cater the needs of *everyone*. That's why distros patch software to adapt to their needs and policies. |
| 17:34.12 | frabbit | ratrace: lol |
| 17:34.19 | petn-randall | frabbit: And that's also the advantage of free software. :) |
| 17:34.47 | petn-randall | frabbit: If you're be that idalistic, no browser would be packaged in Debian. Firefox also had their issues in the past. |
| 17:35.24 | frabbit | i hate ff... |
| 17:35.36 | ratrace | and new ones are on their way... .like disposition: attachment for PDF files that's gonna be removed.... |
| 17:35.37 | frabbit | atm im trying to get rid of it |
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| 17:35.56 | greycat | All of the major browsers have issues. You just have to make your own decisions about them. |
| 17:35.58 | EdePopede | your alternative? |
| 17:36.03 | ratrace | oh I like FF. lesser of all evils. |
| 17:36.09 | frabbit | EdePopede: atm im testing surf |
| 17:36.15 | EdePopede | there's not much else you can do to avoid google |
| 17:36.15 | frabbit | luakit is also interessting |
| 17:36.18 | EdePopede | netsurf? |
| 17:36.27 | frabbit | no surf2 from suckless |
| 17:36.39 | frabbit | https://surf.suckless.org/ |
| 17:36.41 | EdePopede | ah. i wanted to set up a system with their stuff already |
| 17:36.59 | frabbit | EdePopede: i use a lot from them. love it! => |
| 17:37.23 | Gigglebyte | I am wondering if someone can assist with recovering a lost username and password. So far I have followed the instructions found here for the username https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+recover+lost+username+in+Debian+Linux&oq=how+to+recover+lost+username+in+Debian+Linux&aqs=chrome..69i57.9972j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 and the instructions found here for the lost password https://www.google.com/search?q=How+to+boot+into+rec |
| 17:37.23 | Gigglebyte | overy+mode+with+Debian+Linux%3F&oq=How+to+boot+into+recovery+mode+with+Debian+Linux%3F&aqs=chrome..69i57.8232j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 and I still get an error message indicating incorrect password. I just installed Deiban Linux on a friend's computer which came with Windows Visa on an older legacy Toshiba Satellite. |
| 17:37.24 | ratrace | keep in mind that there's now only two or three browser engines out there. gecko (FF), blink (Chrome, chromium, Edge) aaand.... webkit methinks? |
| 17:37.47 | frabbit | ratrace: yes webkit |
| 17:37.49 | EdePopede | the problem with browsers is mostly the modern web. vivaldi or what i tried some time ago, couldn't even display 2-D lists (like youtube's video pages in channels) |
| 17:37.59 | ratrace | and consider that "alternative" browsers that don't use the above engines, are quite likely lacking features and security mitigations... |
| 17:38.05 | frabbit | EdePopede: yeah the web is broken |
| 17:38.13 | frabbit | broken by design |
| 17:38.37 | EdePopede | they want you to use their apps if they have one. |
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| 17:39.11 | EdePopede | so you'll end up with a dozen installed instances of chromium as basis for some electron crap |
| 17:39.30 | ratrace | and then those apps are written in HTML5+javascript, wrapped in phonegap and cross-platformed to all devices, so the circle is COMPLETE, everything leads back to HTML5 :) |
| 17:39.48 | frabbit | i dont use such sites... |
| 17:40.04 | EdePopede | i like html5 apps, but they shouldn't use this for pages. |
| 17:40.46 | frabbit | i block a lot, but i avoid websites that wnat to force me to use anything else then html, css (except some shops that need js) |
| 17:41.02 | EdePopede | or to say i like the idea that it is perfectly possible to have just a naked html container and let JS do all the rest. but that SHOULD stay restricted to apps. |
| 17:41.13 | ratrace | I don't care about that. I'm enjoying the internet in its fullest potential :) |
| 17:41.27 | frabbit | "potential"... |
| 17:41.27 | EdePopede | i can't even use the recent youtube ;) |
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| 17:41.38 | ratrace | awww. :) |
| 17:41.40 | EdePopede | or even twitter makes firefox go mad |
| 17:41.56 | EdePopede | K6-2 with 2GB, bios dates back to late 2007 |
| 17:42.03 | ratrace | ouch |
| 17:42.03 | frabbit | EdePopede: invidio.us is a good frontend but they have server capacity problems atm |
| 17:42.14 | EdePopede | maybe i should give the new raspi a chance, it has 8GB at least :> |
| 17:42.21 | EdePopede | frabbit: youtube-dl |
| 17:42.23 | frabbit | EdePopede: use mastdon instead of twitter |
| 17:42.51 | frabbit | sure i browse youtube with lynx and watch it with mpv + ytdl |
| 17:42.58 | EdePopede | i don't have an accoung on either of them, but everyone seems to post shit to twitter and others have to tell the world about it *shrug* |
| 17:43.03 | ratrace | no wonder y'all hate the internet. y'all can't see it right! :) |
| 17:43.26 | frabbit | ratrace: dude... |
| 17:43.35 | EdePopede | i just don't like the corporated internet. and i like simple things to be simple. |
| 17:43.36 | ratrace | dude! |
| 17:43.43 | EdePopede | dudettes! |
| 17:43.46 | frabbit | please dont be provocative... =( |
| 17:43.55 | karlpinc | EdePopede: The touble with the rasppies is that the've always required non-free software to work because they had broadcomm chips. Haven't looked lately. |
| 17:44.04 | frabbit | the internet was sold long time ago... |
| 17:44.24 | frabbit | karlpinc: yeah and thats sad =( |
| 17:44.35 | EdePopede | karlpinc: the thing is i think i paid 10 times the price of the new one for this pc here 12 years ago :) |
| 17:44.37 | ratrace | provocative? haha, no. you mean opinion balanced against luddism. |
| 17:44.50 | frabbit | ratrace: ... |
| 17:45.29 | EdePopede | and it's a midi tower. the nvidia i used to replaced the broken amd (yes, blame me for having confused them) was about the price of that whole raspi. |
| 17:45.51 | ratrace | the internet and internet technologies are putting food on my table. good things. yummy things. I <3 them. |
| 17:45.54 | frabbit | ratrace: The Luddites hate machine, i do not. |
| 17:46.04 | EdePopede | frabbit: you didn't read them yet in #debian-offtopic ;) |
| 17:46.05 | frabbit | because i like them i hate the "modern" web |
| 17:46.27 | frabbit | EdePopede: them? |
| 17:46.59 | EdePopede | frabbit: Luddites? i thought it was the Bene Tleilax. and yes, "them". seems to be the gender neutral designation these days ;) |
| 17:46.59 | frabbit | is ratrace more then one person? =D |
| 17:47.11 | ratrace | we are |
| 17:47.11 | frabbit | err.. ok |
| 17:47.20 | frabbit | we are legion? xD |
| 17:47.29 | EdePopede | we debian users? yes. |
| 17:47.37 | ratrace | EdePopede: I like the machines from Ix. Better than those on Richesse. |
| 17:47.38 | frabbit | but then legion changed the sites xD |
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| 17:48.26 | frabbit | ratrace: a gift 4 u: https://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ |
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| 17:48.53 | frabbit | ;) |
| 17:49.04 | frabbit | its not ment evil =) |
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| 17:49.22 | frabbit | (and thats not correct english xD) |
| 17:49.56 | EdePopede | talking about books, does debian have some kind of doc server that could be put on top of some httpd? ideally something that could deliver manpages, info, package docs, and just stuff to read from somewhere on the disk. |
| 17:50.53 | ratrace | I'm not aware of such an all-in-one solution |
| 17:50.59 | greycat | ,info man2html |
| 17:51.00 | judd | Package man2html (doc, optional) in buster/amd64: browse man pages in your web browser. Version: 1.6g-11; Size: 29.2k; Installed: 141k; Homepage: http://users.actrix.gen.nz/michael/vhman2html.html |
| 17:51.10 | ratrace | other than pure httpd and let your client launch proper app by mimetype |
| 17:51.34 | EdePopede | thanks, i'll look for it. if it's a scripted solution it may be a starting point to also implement pandoc or whatever. |
| 17:52.19 | EdePopede | i just was remembering the docserver task (or what they call it) suse had years ago, probably still has. |
| 17:53.22 | EdePopede | the url seems to be really old. package not maintained anymore and the linked .nl server is gone :( |
| 17:53.43 | frabbit | ratrace: btw. Luddites werent fighting against machine because they dont like them, they were fighting against the authorities that using machines to get the people into slavery |
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| 17:54.06 | frabbit | ok bye debian people. have a nice day =) <3 |
| 17:54.08 | somiaj | frabbit: try to stick a bit more on topic which is debian support. |
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| 17:55.08 | EdePopede | ,info dwww |
| 17:55.09 | judd | Package dwww (doc, optional) in buster/amd64: Read all on-line documentation with a WWW browser. Version: 1.13.4+nmu3; Size: 123.1k; Installed: 426k |
| 17:55.45 | somiaj | Do you awnt your own local server for this? There are some out there already (Though I guess they have different versions of the man pages) |
| 17:56.01 | somiaj | https://manpages.debian.org/ |
| 17:56.44 | somiaj | https://manpages.debian.org/about.html might contain info about the software they use |
| 17:57.00 | skyroveRR | Hey guys, slackware uses a script called "package.SlackBuild" that has all the configure/make/make install/makepkg statements for preparing packages from source. Is there a similar method debian uses to build packages? I'm looking for that particular file per package that debian uses for building packages from source. Which file is it? And where can I find it? Like for example, I'm looking for the options |
| 17:57.02 | skyroveRR | used in the build file debian used for compiling gcc? |
| 17:57.10 | somiaj | ,i debiman |
| 17:57.11 | karlpinc | EdePopede: Sounds like something you have to configure yourself. You could also look at gnu.org and see what components they use, since they put man and info pages on the web. |
| 17:57.12 | judd | Package debiman (devel, optional) in buster/amd64: generate a static manpage HTML repository out of a Debian archive. Version: 0.0~git20180905.9955035-1+b11; Size: 8255.4k; Installed: 31891k; Homepage: https://github.com/Debian/debiman |
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| 17:58.30 | EdePopede | karlpinc: i thought already of looking into suse to see what they did. but it was some collection of scripts (perl iirc) and html templates. would be nice to transfer it to python and use pandoc somehow. |
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| 17:59.06 | EdePopede | ah, debiman. static is always good if the content isn't meant to be edited. |
| 17:59.19 | karlpinc | EdePopede: Is there a particular use-case? |
| 17:59.49 | EdePopede | no, i just like to have things in one place or i tend to forget about some parts after letting them rotten long enough. |
| 18:00.20 | EdePopede | and i strongly prefer a good layout over just text cells. and linked, structured content. |
| 18:00.34 | karlpinc | EdePopede: In that case there's also /usr/share/doc/<packagename>/* which can also have useful "stuff" that's not anywhere else. |
| 18:01.00 | EdePopede | especially some manpages are insanely big, i really have problems getting through those similar to mpv and ffmpeg |
| 18:01.43 | EdePopede | karlpinc: yep. only i've seen so many packages with just the upstream and debian changelog and the gpl. frustrating :( |
| 18:02.07 | skyroveRR | Anyone? |
| 18:02.43 | somiaj | !nmg |
| 18:02.43 | dpkg | The packaging tutorial (https://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (https://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. https://www.debian.org/devel/ |
| 18:02.44 | greycat | Debian's packages are created by Debian developers. Using labor. |
| 18:02.59 | greycat | You would NOT want an automatically created package. It would be shit. |
| 18:03.24 | petn-randall | skyroveRR: There's no single script that does the packaging if that's what you're asking for. The nmg is probably a good starting point to read up on it. ^^^ |
| 18:03.47 | somiaj | If the source is fairly standard, debian helper can automate a lot for a local package, but it woudln't be the quality needed to get into debian, it is just a starting point. |
| 18:03.51 | karlpinc | skyroveRR: See, e.g.: https://sources.debian.org/src/gcc-8/8.3.0-6/debian/rules/ |
| 18:06.46 | skyroveRR | petn-randall: ok. |
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| 18:07.04 | skyroveRR | karlpinc: that's an interesting link. |
| 18:08.04 | karlpinc | skyroveRR: An example... |
| 18:08.32 | greycat | Most packages are probably *much* simpler than gcc. |
| 18:08.53 | somiaj | skyroveRR: what is your goal/usecase? |
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| 18:12.16 | skyroveRR | somiaj: I'd like to compare debian's package build methods with slackware's. Slackware has a single package build file, a slack-desc which is a package description file, and doinst.sh, which is a post-install script invoked by the slackware package manager. The package.SlackBuild file has everything, every single sentence from extracting the tarball to configure, make, make install, and the final package |
| 18:12.18 | skyroveRR | making command in it. I'm curious how debian does that. But looking at https://sources.debian.org/src/gcc-8/8.3.0-6/debian/ , it's a completely different world. |
| 18:13.05 | InnovAnon-Inc | most packages are going to have 'quirks' that'll get in the way of your magic script. I use a magic one-size-fits-all script to debianize my autotools projects, but I can make a lot of assumptions about them, and they're all pretty much the "same." ahh.. you may be able to script that. |
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| 18:13.18 | greycat | Where does slackware put the *patches* that it makes, the changes that it makes, to the upstream software? |
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| 18:14.39 | skyroveRR | greycat: something like this: http://slackware.uk/slackware/slackware-14.2/patches/source/bash/ |
| 18:15.12 | greycat | so it's *not* just one gigantic "how2build" file? |
| 18:15.23 | somiaj | skyroveRR: start with the new matainer guide, but debian provides a lot of (often needed) customizing to patches that are all contained in a debian/, in general debian ships both the unmodified upstream source, and the debian/ which contains build info (including patches) |
| 18:15.49 | skyroveRR | greycat: well no. But the slackbuild file has at least the autoconf options used to create that package. |
| 18:16.01 | greycat | Not every upstream package *uses* autoconf. |
| 18:16.29 | skyroveRR | greycat: I know. There's cmake, scons too. But even those things go into the package.SlackBuild. |
| 18:16.48 | skyroveRR | Like this one: http://slackware.uk/slackware/slackware-14.2/source/l/libical/libical.SlackBuild |
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| 18:17.35 | greycat | The debian/rules file is a Makefile that tells the basic steps for building the source. But that is only one piece of creating a Debian package. There's also the changelog which contains vital information (including the package version number -- this *forces* the devs to write a changelog!), and license management. |
| 18:17.53 | skyroveRR | Ah! |
| 18:18.25 | InnovAnon-Inc | Q: how to do I magically build any package, even if it uses autoconf or cmake or pure make or whatever... A: what a nightmare. https://github.com/InnovAnon-Inc/CIS |
| 18:18.31 | skyroveRR | greycat: yup! Now that's the kind of the file I was looking for. |
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| 18:19.18 | greycat | !nmg |
| 18:19.18 | dpkg | The packaging tutorial (https://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (https://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. https://www.debian.org/devel/ |
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| 18:21.03 | skyroveRR | Time to take a look at that tutorial. |
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| 18:41.08 | skyroveRR | somiaj: karlpinc: greycat: thanks a lot for your inputs. I'm gonna take my time reading through the material you provided in your links. |
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| 19:17.14 | scarface | hi all |
| 19:17.19 | scarface | i have a question |
| 19:17.33 | scarface | i get some strange arror when i try to install sbnc-1.3.9 |
| 19:18.02 | scarface | does anybody know what i missing or what's wrong |
| 19:18.03 | greycat | ,v sbnc |
| 19:18.04 | judd | Package: sbnc on amd64 -- jessie: 1.3.9-3 |
| 19:18.13 | scarface | make[2]: *** [Makefile:426: IRCConnection.o] Error 1 |
| 19:18.13 | scarface | make[2]: Leaving directory '/home/dennis/sbnc-1.3.9/src' |
| 19:18.13 | scarface | make[1]: *** [Makefile:340: all-recursive] Error 1 |
| 19:18.13 | scarface | make[1]: Leaving directory '/home/dennis/sbnc-1.3.9' |
| 19:18.28 | greycat | that doesn't sound like installing... that sounds like compiling |
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| 19:18.46 | scarface | when i do make |
| 19:18.50 | scarface | i get this reply |
| 19:18.54 | greycat | definitely compiling. but we already knew that. |
| 19:18.57 | jelly | scarface, when you are building programs from source, it is the first error that happens that is most important, not the last |
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| 19:19.40 | scarface | with ./configure |
| 19:19.45 | scarface | i dont get error's |
| 19:19.47 | greycat | *sigh* |
| 19:20.00 | greycat | I'm not sure he's listening to either of us. |
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| 19:20.13 | jelly | scarface, those are two separate and different steps and you need both |
| 19:20.45 | greycat | .info sbnc |
| 19:20.48 | greycat | ,info sbnc |
| 19:20.50 | judd | No package named 'sbnc' was found in buster/amd64. |
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| 19:20.55 | greycat | ,info sbnc --release jessie |
| 19:20.56 | judd | Package sbnc (net, optional) in jessie/amd64: IRC proxy for multiple users. Version: 1.3.9-3; Size: 129.2k; Installed: 417k; Homepage: http://www.shroudbnc.info/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/sbnc |
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| 19:21.06 | greycat | yeah, thought so... the "bnc" is usually a good indicator |
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| 19:21.37 | jelly | scarface, if you want someone to even begin guessing what went wrong, show the full output of the failed command. Or at least the lines where the errors START |
| 19:21.40 | jelly | !paste |
| 19:21.40 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 19:21.58 | greycat | in any case, this "sbnc" thing was apparently removed from Debian after version 8, and yet you're not even trying to install the Debian 8 package, but rather, trying to compile what I can only assume is upstream's source code... |
| 19:22.21 | jelly | I set up multiple users and each user runs their own znc. But that is me. |
| 19:22.40 | greycat | Perhaps what's needed is a different "bouncer" that hasn't been abandoned and discarded. |
| 19:23.06 | jelly | only knows of znc as still having a nondead upstream |
| 19:23.48 | scarface | Yeah i hate sbnc and use znc myself , but some newbie rather use sbnc instaid :((( and he is not wanna use znc : |
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| 19:24.54 | scarface | ok jelly , hold on |
| 19:25.20 | greycat | if you're going to build upstream sources, you need to learn how to read error messages. |
| 19:25.42 | greycat | Jelly gave you the most important hint already: you start at the TOP and find the FIRST error. |
| 19:26.46 | scarface | understood greycat , i'll gonna look where the error started |
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| 19:26.50 | greycat | It also helps to have a basic understanding of the toolchain. "make" reads a Makefile for instructions, compared timestamps on files, and runs compilers and linkers and stuff to build the software. If the compiler (or whatever) spits out an error, you'll see that error, and then make will catch the error status, and also write its *own* errors. |
| 19:27.06 | greycat | You don't really care about make's follow-on errors. You only care about the original compiler/linker error. |
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| 20:32.48 | dob1 | parallel --env $SOMETHING -a commands.sh will use $SOMETHING in commands.sh ,right? |
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| 20:50.28 | kale | hi i am looking for some project management tool. which is task oriented. i need to set up a template for a task, which then has several subtasks with dependencies. do you guys know of something like that in debian repository? |
| 20:54.44 | IanJ | kale: I never used it but: https://www.openproject.org/download-and-installation/ |
| 20:58.05 | kale | IanJ: i'll try it out and see if it has what i need, thanks |
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| 21:28.56 | efloid | is that needrestart that lists the programs which need to be restarted due to updated binaries after apt upgrade? |
| 21:29.37 | sney | yes |
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| 21:29.42 | efloid | huh. i guess it is. 'sudo needrestart' |
| 21:31.58 | efloid | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:34.14 | efloid | for my desktop i definitely want 'l' |
| 21:34.38 | efloid | actually no. "i" is better because some binaries can be safely restarted |
| 21:35.26 | petn-randall | efloid: It's a config file, feel free to edit it to your needs. |
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| 21:40.06 | efloid | "Verify mapped files in filesystem" ? |
| 21:41.20 | annadane | needrestart or checkrestart but i think needrestart is the only one that hooks into apt and it's a fork of checkrestart which implies improvements |
| 21:41.26 | annadane | (checkrestart being part of the debian-goodies package) |
| 21:42.00 | annadane | wonders if anyone doesn't use things like that and just tracks everything manually |
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| 21:48.33 | efloid | makes me want to study Perl. the code looks so nice. |
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| 21:49.41 | dvs | ??? Perl??? |
| 21:50.15 | efloid | needrestart is written in Perl |
| 21:51.20 | efloid | maybe this is an area where Perl really shines: administrative system scripts |
| 21:52.03 | IanJ | efloid: that's probably testament to the coder who wrote it rather than the language itself. I've seen some god awful perl in my time :P |
| 21:52.23 | Deano59 | can anyone explain why NM-APPLET under Debian buster fails to detect/give me an IP when a Openvpn config is set? |
| 21:52.38 | Deano59 | if I run via bash it works just fine. |
| 21:53.30 | greycat | I suppose it's *possible* to write perl code that "looks nice", but it's not the norm. |
| 21:54.02 | greycat | That said, perl is a fine language for certain kinds of tasks, and if you want to learn it, by all means go for it. |
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| 21:55.06 | dvs | nice for text processing but that's about it for me. |
| 21:55.15 | miskatonic | who coded needrestart? Larry Wall? |
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| 21:55.56 | greycat | Homepage: https://github.com/liske/needrestart |
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| 21:56.02 | greycat | from apt-cache show needrestart |
| 21:56.59 | miskatonic | these days I use perl only for rxvt-unicode extension configuration |
| 21:57.23 | IanJ | efloid: there's not much you can't do with perl. All the kool kids seem to be going for python these days though. |
| 21:58.14 | Deano59 | from 2014 but it's still an issue today and someone reported it in 2016 too; https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=767549 |
| 21:58.15 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/767549 in network-manager-openvpn (open): «network-manager-openvpn: no internet access with nm-openvpn, console openvpn works»; severity: important; opened: 2014-11-01; last modified: 2016-01-08. |
| 21:59.04 | Deano59 | what can I do to fix it? |
| 21:59.04 | miskatonic | I have heard of something called perlwm, but it is excluded from debian; and I am not sure that it holds a candle to ratpoison |
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| 22:00.17 | petn-randall | Deano59: This sounds more like a catch-all bug report; network-manager-openvpn works fine for me and correctly set routes. |
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| 22:01.05 | Deano59 | it doesn't here and idk why petn-randall |
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| 22:02.06 | Deano59 | brb |
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| 22:02.31 | annadane | perl is probably *not* a good first language |
| 22:02.40 | annadane | but yes, worthy of study in general |
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| 22:03.30 | efloid | IanJ: I thought Julia was the new cool thing ;-) |
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| 22:04.42 | efloid | just read this: https://www.infoworld.com/article/3241107/julia-vs-python-which-is-best-for-data-science.html |
| 22:06.40 | miskatonic | Julia is great for scientific computing but not for system administration script or the configuration/ extension of most kinds of apps |
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| 22:07.04 | IanJ | efloid: never heard of her :P |
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| 22:08.06 | IanJ | Perl was my first programming language and to be honest there's none that I've struggled to get to grips with as many of the constructs are shared between a lot of languages. |
| 22:08.11 | miskatonic | that's the family name of a mathematician of a century or so ago, not a woman. There is the infamous Julia set in fractal theory. |
| 22:09.31 | petn-randall | IanJ: The problem with Perl as your first language is that Perl is quite ... special in many things. Which might make learning other languages make you wonder sometimes. |
| 22:09.36 | petn-randall | has started off with Perl. |
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| 22:11.24 | Deano59 | petn-randall: removed and re-installed and still doesn't add the correct route(s). tcp and udp. bash openvpn --config works. |
| 22:12.03 | Deano59 | I also couldn't set anything until I installed openvpn-gnome too. |
| 22:12.10 | Deano59 | what am I doing wrong? XD |
| 22:12.22 | petn-randall | Deano59: How did you configure it in nm-openvpn? Most likely there's a difference in config. |
| 22:12.34 | Deano59 | config is the same. |
| 22:12.40 | IanJ | petn-randall: it has it's quirks but so does everything. :) |
| 22:12.45 | petn-randall | Deano59: How are you ensuring they are the same? |
| 22:12.54 | Deano59 | same config I use bro. |
| 22:13.22 | Deano59 | import > import saved openvpn config. it's the same config I run from bash. |
| 22:13.32 | Deano59 | bash works, nm does NOT. |
| 22:13.47 | petn-randall | Deano59: It's quite possible it doesn't set it all. Verify the settings by hand. |
| 22:13.54 | Deano59 | I did... lol |
| 22:14.43 | Deano59 | settings are EXACTLY the same. |
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| 22:14.44 | petn-randall | Deano59: What happens when you enable your config with nm? You can see the output in /var/log/syslog. |
| 22:15.10 | Deano59 | it doesn't output the vpn IP with "curl icanhazip.com" it outputs my isp IP. |
| 22:15.33 | petn-randall | Well, check the logs. It's likely it didn't even connect. |
| 22:15.48 | Deano59 | it states it connects fine. |
| 22:15.50 | petn-randall | Deano59: Also, on what Os release is this? |
| 22:15.55 | Deano59 | 0s? |
| 22:15.57 | petn-randall | *OS |
| 22:16.02 | Deano59 | buster 10.4 |
| 22:16.15 | petn-randall | You can share the logs on https://paste.debian.net |
| 22:17.38 | Deano59 | 413 Request Entity Too Large lmao |
| 22:18.04 | petn-randall | Deano59: Wait, it's /var/log/daemon.log. |
| 22:18.18 | petn-randall | Deano59: Yeah, don't just post your complete logs, just those after you connect. |
| 22:20.23 | Deano59 | May 29 21:23:49 Ryzen-MS-7C52 nm-openvpn[704]: chroot to '/var/lib/openvpn/chroot' and cd to '/' succeeded |
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| 22:21.23 | Deano59 | says this too petn-randall May 29 23:05:46 Ryzen-MS-7C52 NetworkManager[1688]: Too few arguments. |
| 22:21.41 | petn-randall | Deano59: I don't quite understand why you're posting single lines into the chat. |
| 22:21.55 | Deano59 | because I don't see errors? |
| 22:22.13 | Deano59 | see above. |
| 22:22.15 | petn-randall | Can you share the complete logs from nm with us? That'll help us debug the issue better. |
| 22:22.33 | Deano59 | petn-randall: where to find nm logs? |
| 22:22.45 | petn-randall | Deano59: Again, /var/log/daemon.log. |
| 22:22.58 | Deano59 | sigh, it's too bit |
| 22:23.01 | Deano59 | big* |
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| 22:24.04 | Deano59 | https://paste.debian.net/1149649/ there you go, from nm. |
| 22:24.14 | Deano59 | sudo journalctl -u NetworkManager |
| 22:25.01 | petn-randall | Deano59: I don't see any logs of you connecting via openvpn. |
| 22:26.19 | petn-randall | Deano59: If you want to use journalctl, fine by me. I'd run `journalctl -u NetworkManager -f`, hit enter a few times to create some space, then enable the openvpn config to generate logs. Copy all lines between the space and the end. |
| 22:26.23 | *** join/#debian Deano59ONE (~Deano59@unaffiliated/deano59) |
| 22:26.46 | Deano59 | I'm connected now |
| 22:27.51 | Deano59 | petn-randall: https://paste.debian.net/1149653/ |
| 22:29.08 | Deano59 | it's connected, internet loading is taking forever and curl icanhazip.com shows my isp IP. |
| 22:29.20 | Deano59 | petn-randall: ^ |
| 22:29.55 | petn-randall | Deano59: Are you sure that's your full output? "Activation: successful, device activated." is what I get in the end, after ~50 lines of output. |
| 22:30.31 | Deano59 | that's the output from your commmand.. |
| 22:31.33 | petn-randall | Deano59: Just to make sure: You ran the command, and then *started* the openvpn config from network-manager, right? |
| 22:31.53 | Deano59 | yes. |
| 22:32.04 | Deano59 | should I disconnect and do it again? |
| 22:32.10 | petn-randall | yes please |
| 22:32.21 | Deano59 | disconnected now. let me re-run it. |
| 22:32.28 | Deano59 | wait... |
| 22:32.39 | Deano59 | connect NOW *then* re-run the command? |
| 22:33.02 | Deano59 | petn-randall: ^ |
| 22:33.09 | Deano59 | idk if you're getting these |
| 22:33.20 | petn-randall | No, run the command, *then* connect. |
| 22:33.37 | petn-randall | Otherwise you'll only get the last ~10 lines of the logs. |
| 22:33.52 | Deano59 | run journalctl -u NetworkManager -f? |
| 22:33.58 | petn-randall | yes |
| 22:34.21 | petn-randall | Run that, hit a few times enter, then connect via network-manager. |
| 22:34.21 | Deano59 | gotcha. sec. |
| 22:34.45 | petn-randall | So you know which lines are new (you'll see the gap in the lines). |
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| 22:34.51 | Deano59 | https://paste.debian.net/1149655/ |
| 22:35.12 | petn-randall | Deano59: Nice! That's much better. We're getting closer to the problem. |
| 22:35.12 | Deano59 | that's it ^ petn-randall |
| 22:36.15 | Deano59 | what does that log tell you? it means nothing to me... xD |
| 22:36.57 | petn-randall | Deano59: Can you share the output of `ip route` while you're still connected? |
| 22:37.28 | Deano59 | https://paste.debian.net/1149656/ |
| 22:39.03 | Deano59 | any idea what's going on petn-randall ? |
| 22:39.28 | petn-randall | Deano59: just a sec |
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| 22:41.02 | Deano59 | okay... |
| 22:41.41 | petn-randall | Deano59: What does `ping 172.21.24.1` output? |
| 22:42.00 | petn-randall | Deano59: I suspect the default route is not being set properly, I'm trying to verify this. |
| 22:42.01 | Deano59 | pings fine. |
| 22:42.50 | Deano59 | 2 packets transmitted, 2 received, 0% packet loss, time 2ms |
| 22:42.57 | Deano59 | yeah ping is fine. |
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| 22:43.31 | petn-randall | Deano59: Ok, then the openvpn connection at least works. |
| 22:43.43 | Deano59 | yeah just no proper route |
| 22:43.52 | Deano59 | bash works though. xD |
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| 22:45.11 | petn-randall | Deano59: Ok, we might be able to check my theory. "ip route del default via 192.168.1.1" will delete the default route via your Ethernet interface, forcing everything through the openvpn. If you're cut off from the internet, simply unplug and replug the Ethernet to get back on. |
| 22:45.39 | petn-randall | Deano59: Let me know if your curl command shows the vpn ip address after running said command. |
| 22:45.46 | Deano59 | sec |
| 22:46.33 | Deano59 | nope still shows my isp ip |
| 22:46.40 | Deano59 | internet is working |
| 22:47.44 | Deano59 | petn-randall: doesn't do anything my dude. |
| 22:48.33 | petn-randall | Deano59: Run `ip route del default via 192.168.1.1` again and share `ip route` with me again. There are two routes that match that IP. |
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| 22:49.40 | Deano59 | petn-randall: https://paste.debian.net/1149659/ |
| 22:51.24 | petn-randall | Deano59: Did you get an error of any kind? Those deleted routes are there again. |
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| 22:51.34 | Deano59 | nope no error(s) |
| 22:51.51 | Deano59 | I'm running as root if that matters? |
| 22:52.06 | petn-randall | Yeah, that only works as root. |
| 22:52.11 | Deano59 | RTNETLINK answers: Operation not permitted |
| 22:52.34 | Deano59 | firewall problem? |
| 22:52.40 | petn-randall | Deano59: When do you get that? |
| 22:52.52 | nvz | when running it as a normal user |
| 22:52.57 | Deano59 | when running as a normal user, the command above. |
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| 22:53.59 | Deano59 | bash: route: command not found |
| 22:54.04 | Deano59 | via normal user. ?? |
| 22:54.14 | abrotman | try /sbin/route |
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| 22:54.46 | Deano59 | oh |
| 22:54.47 | Deano59 | :P |
| 22:55.05 | Deano59 | yeah idk what's going on |
| 22:55.05 | nvz | Deano59: how are you becomming root? |
| 22:55.08 | Deano59 | sudo -i |
| 22:55.50 | Deano59 | su - does the same too |
| 22:55.56 | nvz | and /sbin/ isn't in your PATH? |
| 22:56.03 | petn-randall | Note that the command is "ip", not "route". "route" is one of the parameters. |
| 22:56.12 | Deano59 | it IS but not as normal user nvz |
| 22:56.21 | nvz | right, its not suppose to be |
| 22:56.45 | petn-randall | We're sidetracking here, Deano59 should be running it as root, anyway. |
| 22:56.48 | Deano59 | petn-randall: ip route del default via 192.168.1.1 is what I ran. |
| 22:57.16 | Deano59 | AND still shows isp ip |
| 22:57.43 | Deano59 | the del command doesnt do anything? |
| 22:58.16 | nvz | when I do it, it disconnects me because I no longer have a default route to anywhere |
| 22:58.31 | Deano59 | not here it doesn't xD |
| 22:58.33 | nvz | apparently yours is not removing the route |
| 22:59.08 | nvz | unless you use DHCP and your least time is REALLY short |
| 22:59.10 | Deano59 | I removed libreoffice, firefox etc apps I'm not using; could that be iit? |
| 22:59.11 | nvz | and its putting it back |
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| 22:59.44 | nvz | personally I'd consider checking the log to see whats going on |
| 23:00.12 | Deano59 | I did and can't see anything |
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| 23:01.19 | nvz | that sort of stuff would likely be in /var/log/messages or /var/log/daemon.log |
| 23:01.30 | Deano59 | ... |
| 23:01.33 | Deano59 | I looked... |
| 23:02.05 | Deano59 | be back later, this is doing my head in. |
| 23:03.32 | nvz | heh |
| 23:03.48 | nvz | if you're doing it all with network-manager there should be output from that in the daemon.log |
| 23:04.24 | nvz | and anything else that could be running that could be putting the route back |
| 23:05.11 | petn-randall | nvz: I'm guessing they're quite new to Linux in general, they had issues sharing the correct logs. |
| 23:05.18 | petn-randall | (it took a few attempts) |
| 23:07.04 | nvz | yeah idk.. I havent done openvpn in a long time but it seems odd to me there are double entries in that route table for the ethernet interface like its bonding two ips or something |
| 23:07.37 | nvz | which I thought when you do crap like that it shows them as two seperate IFs |
| 23:07.54 | nvz | but it shows the SAME if with two different IPv4 addresses |
| 23:07.58 | nvz | and two default routes |
| 23:07.59 | expon | does debian still ship rsyslog or similar by default? |
| 23:08.06 | expon | i ask because journalctl would be the 'modern'ish way to grab logs |
| 23:08.52 | nvz | expon: http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/buster if I remember the link to my site correctly.. the field with the number of packages has a link to a list of packages |
| 23:09.01 | expon | anyhow it sounds like redirect-gateway def1 might have been what hte user wanted |
| 23:09.05 | expon | but i'll see if they're back later :) |
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| 23:09.22 | petn-randall | expon: Yes, rsyslog is still there on a default installation, journald is not persistent. |
| 23:09.40 | expon | petn-randall: roger, been a while since i did anything but debootstrap |
| 23:09.46 | expon | and, nvz that's very useful, thanks |
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| 23:12.01 | nvz | I still haven't really learned journald and still use the log files for most things.. except we no longer have /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh running and creating /var/log/dmesg so you gotta journalctl -k for that |
| 23:12.37 | expon | personally i can't get enough of it, trawling through logfiles was never fun at the best of times, and i'm old now so it's 0 fun anymore! |
| 23:12.38 | rjcarr | Iâm trying to do a recursive rsync with specific permissions on the destination and it will work for the directory in the root but not apply to any of the created files and directories that are recursively created. Is this expected? My options are: -zrltvh --perms --chmod=D2775,F664 |
| 23:12.45 | nvz | those binary logs might be better in some ways but I find for my day to day needs the old fashioned way is much simpler :P |
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| 23:13.18 | expon | nvz: honestly once you learn a couple of invocations it becomes second nature i think |
| 23:13.58 | nvz | hey you kids, RTFM :D |
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| 23:15.14 | nvz | only real tricks I learned was -k for the boot messages that used to be in /var/log/dmesg and it tells you at times to -xe which idk what /exactly/ it does but it seems to spot the obvious errors :P |
| 23:15.21 | expon | rjcarr: that does look to be correct, but it might not do exactly what you expect |
| 23:15.28 | expon | rjcarr: when you say "doesn't apply", what happens? |
| 23:15.42 | expon | (it uses the chmod you define as acceptance mask for the source file permissions) |
| 23:15.52 | nvz | and without arguments you just get a log that is ridiculously large and has everything all mixed in together |
| 23:16.00 | expon | yeah nvz use -e whenever you can, ie 'end' |
| 23:16.09 | expon | and -u for a specific unit |
| 23:16.22 | rjcarr | expon: Thanks, for example, for directories it should be 775 and it comes out 700. |
| 23:16.22 | oxek | my fault for using buster-backports: |
| 23:16.25 | oxek | ,bug #961501 |
| 23:16.27 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/961501 in remmina (open): «remmina is calling home for update notifications»; severity: grave; opened: 2020-05-25; last modified: 2020-05-27. |
| 23:16.32 | expon | so `journalctl -aef` 'tail all logs starting somewhere near the end' |
| 23:16.33 | nvz | ah, ok, the -e I think I should alias that.. cause I pretty much always wanna start at the end :P |
| 23:16.34 | oxek | though I am still surprised it slipped past maintainers |
| 23:16.35 | rjcarr | But the first directory it writes is correct. |
| 23:16.58 | expon | rjcarr: directories will be sourcemask & 775, so if the source is 0700 it'll come out as 0700 i believe |
| 23:17.40 | expon | if you just want to chmod everything to those values i think you'd get rid of --perms, but don't quote me on that (do a dry run!) |
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| 23:18.52 | nvz | just seeking to the end in the pager on my system takes a long beat |
| 23:19.11 | rjcarr | expn: Iâve tried both, and I recall them being very slightly different, but both wrong. Thanks for the help, though! |
| 23:19.20 | expon | hah, yeah reading the docs it's slightly ambiguous |
| 23:19.26 | nvz | seems my uptime on this t440 laptop is 51 days.. so even without persistence I have big logs :P |
| 23:19.29 | expon | on whether it's overwriting the source file's permissions, or masking it |
| 23:20.19 | nvz | oh wait, thats the server that has been up 51 days, this has only been up 16 days :P |
| 23:20.21 | rjcarr | expon: OK, thanks. |
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| 23:20.57 | nvz | I need to go back to color coding terminals obviously :D |
| 23:22.11 | expon | tmux-powerline is cute but the second i change a vim mode it won't go back to normal, so i can't use that for my colour coding |
| 23:22.23 | expon | so instead i have black and unstyled green horror |
| 23:23.07 | nvz | I dont even remember how I used to do it.. but I used to have the whole termnal change color.. but perhaps just a color coded prompt would be sufficient |
| 23:23.15 | nvz | cause I obviously dont read it.. heh |
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