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| 00:00.51 | mutante | Scou_moune: avoid adding more custom changes at once when debugging. stick to /var/log/syslog |
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| 00:01.09 | Scou_moune | mutante: ok |
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| 00:01.50 | mutante | Scou_moune: you can add a different command that does definitely NOT work to check if logging works at all |
| 00:03.46 | Scou_moune | mutante: that work |
| 00:04.20 | Scou_moune | mutante: i do that because my irc put lof of line in syslog so i can show great line about cron |
| 00:04.28 | Scou_moune | Jul 16 02:03:01 yorik CRON[2736]: (root) CMD (/usr/local/sbin/back_up22) |
| 00:04.34 | Scou_moune | I'm so happy |
| 00:04.44 | mutante | Scou_moune: ok, so it works. nice! but what was the problem now? |
| 00:05.01 | mutante | rsyslog config wrong? |
| 00:05.16 | Scou_moune | mutante: no all work for that |
| 00:05.28 | mutante | Scou_moune: so it's unknown what the fix was?:) |
| 00:05.43 | Scou_moune | mutante: for other problem i prefer find solution by me first hihi |
| 00:06.07 | Scou_moune | mutante: yeaaa :D so happy thank lol (i don't know why) |
| 00:06.22 | mutante | Scou_moune: hah, ok, let's just accept it works :p |
| 00:06.47 | Scou_moune | mutante: yea that my mind is too complicated i think |
| 00:10.13 | mutante | Scou_moune: maybe just a little unfocused and jumping between separate problems, but it's all good, you got it working |
| 00:11.38 | sc_ | first time I had to upgrade to unstable to fix something :) |
| 00:12.17 | Scou_moune | mutante: yea i think that with the time, i see that run all hours, so that why, me i waiting all 3 min. But yea now i can finish the function, and i drink pastis and show cron do the job :D |
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| 00:16.17 | sc_ | actually, sorry, I went to testing |
| 00:16.59 | mutante | Scou_moune: pastis, haha, enjoy |
| 00:22.02 | Scou_moune | mutante: Yea i think you know, parce que mutante c'est français xD ð¸ï¸ |
| 00:23.17 | mutante | Scou_moune: i am not French but i have been there enough to know that drink and have bad memories about too much of it |
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| 00:24.27 | Scou_moune | mutante: xDD yea that why you a mutante ðï¸ |
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| 01:01.52 | vince | Hey folks, just wondering what if any processes Debian has for security scanning on package builds before they hit the repos? |
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| 01:10.43 | somiaj | vince: Debian has various tools that matainers and developers use to test packages before uploading them to sid. Some might do simple security checks, but what sort of checks are you looking for? |
| 01:11.40 | somiaj | vince: https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleBuilds -- debian packages are also more and more becoming reporucible, so the package the matainer uploads can be identicle to the one that gets built. |
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| 01:33.38 | vince | somiaj: thanks for your response. I'm looking to package a bunch of software from github in debs. I guess the closest example would be SCA/SAST/DAST. Basically scan the github clone / resulting package for potentially volatile behaviour. |
| 01:36.07 | somiaj | vince: I'm not quite familar with those types of scans, I do know debian does use testing (the sid->testing development cycle gives users time to report bugs that get by the scans). But a main tool debian uses to see if packages meet policy is https://wiki.debian.org/Lintian -- but I don't think it focuses on security |
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| 01:41.02 | sney | debian isn't really in the business of auditing potential security bugs in upstream software. there are trackers for when a CVE appears for example, and maintainers are expected to make good decisions about what upstream releases are worthy, but otherwise it's upstream's job. |
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| 01:54.18 | jusss | what's the path of iso image on mirrors? |
| 01:55.33 | sney | path? start at http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ and click through |
| 01:57.02 | jusss | sney: that mirrors website would provide iso download? |
| 01:57.23 | sney | your question is unclear. what are you looking for exactly |
| 01:59.42 | jusss | sney: there're mirrors like https://mirrors.tuna.tsinghua.edu.cn/debian/ or http://mirrors.aliyun.com/debian/ I wonder can I download debian install iso from those mirrors |
| 02:00.06 | themill | the cd mirror network is a completely different (and much smaller) network |
| 02:00.13 | jusss | do they provide debian-10.4.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso |
| 02:00.28 | themill | !cd mirrors |
| 02:00.29 | dpkg | You can download Debian ISO images from the CD image network. See http://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/#mirrors for a list of mirrors that are available. Ask me about <install debian> <various cd1> <netinstall> <install guide>. |
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| 02:01.34 | jusss | ok |
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| 02:46.54 | vince | sney: thanks for your input |
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| 03:12.27 | brachamh | how would i go through my home network and find what's slowing it down? is that even possible? |
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| 03:14.57 | wrycode | brachamh: you mean like monitor bandwidth usage of different devices attached to your router? |
| 03:15.15 | wrycode | or just diagnose general slowness? |
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| 03:17.02 | brachamh | i have a home server (currently running ubuntu server but will be running debian as soon as i can get it set up enough to swap out) and i have emby running in a docker container. streaming locally, just recently it's started to buffer. |
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| 03:18.01 | brachamh | the buffering devices are all wireless (roku units and a laptop), but everything was working smoothly until recently |
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| 03:19.05 | brachamh | the server does have a switch between it and the router, as i have two other devices on my desk sharing the connection. |
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| 04:30.01 | brachamh | is there a way to remove a desktop environment from the command line? |
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| 04:34.05 | nvz | of course.. though its not always simple :P |
| 04:34.31 | nvz | how did you install it? |
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| 04:35.12 | brachamh | install the DE? |
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| 04:35.37 | nvz | uh, yeah, were we talkin about something else? |
| 04:35.54 | brachamh | no, i'm getting tired |
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| 04:36.30 | brachamh | right from initial install. i selected all DE's but now it doesn't seem to want to finish booting |
| 04:36.56 | nvz | and this is the reason you want to remove the DE? |
| 04:37.05 | nvz | cause thats not a very good reason |
| 04:37.13 | brachamh | ok, what should i do then? |
| 04:37.18 | nvz | and a completely different issue :D |
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| 04:37.39 | nvz | seems we were talkin about something else, you just hadn't told me yet :D |
| 04:38.28 | nvz | brachamh: so you got a fresh debian install? and on the first boot its not booting all the way to the graphical display manager login as you expect? |
| 04:38.43 | brachamh | yes |
| 04:38.55 | nvz | what exactly is it doing? just blank screen at some point? |
| 04:39.48 | brachamh | last step is loading gnome display manager (IIRC) and then doing a filesystem check, where it appears to freeze. |
| 04:40.24 | nvz | and THEN doing a filesystem check? |
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| 04:40.38 | brachamh | hang on lemme try it again |
| 04:41.53 | nvz | the only reason a system does a fsck is cause you told it to, or it has a pass option set and when mounting it realizes the system is unclean.. and it does this way before starting the DM |
| 04:43.04 | brachamh | i think it starts the filesystem check earlier, but then...ok this time i added another line before the last line. hang on. |
| 04:43.11 | brachamh | started authorization manager |
| 04:43.17 | brachamh | started gnome display manager |
| 04:43.26 | brachamh | started accounts service |
| 04:43.51 | nvz | but that text remains on the screen and you never see even a text login? |
| 04:44.05 | brachamh | fsckd-cancel-msg:Press Ctrl+C to cancel all filesystem checks in progress |
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| 04:44.30 | brachamh | that's the last line it shows, and Ctrl+C doesn't seem to do anything |
| 04:45.46 | nvz | there are a few things I know here.. one is you shouldnt have a fsck happening on a fresh install that went well.. unless you have a bad disk.. and you're not using debian |
| 04:46.18 | brachamh | this is debian 10, used the same flash drive, same flash, to install it on this laptop |
| 04:46.58 | jmcnaught | Was there a hard reset? That could be why it's running fsck now. |
| 04:47.10 | brachamh | hard drive should be good, unless it was abused recently. it was brand new just a few weeks ago. doesn't seem to be any damage on the laptop case though |
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| 04:47.33 | brachamh | this is straight from initial auto reboot after install |
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| 04:48.12 | jmcnaught | Did you select the SSH server task (on the same screen where you select desktop environments)? |
| 04:50.34 | jmcnaught | If you're getting a blank screen right after installing it could be a missing firmware, or the GPU could be too new for buster's kernel. If you have another computer you can still SSH into it perhaps. |
| 04:50.36 | brachamh | yes i did. oh hey i had to help the wife out for a couple minutes and now i have a couple more lines |
| 04:51.55 | brachamh | rtl8188ee: Pulling FW ready fail!! REG_ ... |
| 04:52.25 | brachamh | rtl8188ee: Firmware is not ready to run! |
| 04:52.36 | brachamh | and it's supposed to be "polling" not pulling |
| 04:53.08 | brachamh | network card error? |
| 04:53.24 | nvz | sounds like it.. |
| 04:54.47 | brachamh | it won't fully load if it can't load the network card firmware? |
| 04:55.35 | jmcnaught | That message probably has nothing to do with why GDM is not starting or displaying. |
| 04:56.02 | brachamh | ok |
| 04:56.05 | nvz | brachamh: what happens when you boot recovery mode? |
| 04:56.22 | brachamh | it boots to the prompt |
| 04:56.46 | nvz | then I'd do that and enter the root password and fsck the filesystem |
| 04:57.15 | nvz | then I'd do a systemctl default and see what happens |
| 04:58.09 | brachamh | ok. ctrl-alt-delete started a proper reboot, i'm now about to enter root password |
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| 05:00.57 | brachamh | can't check mounted disk |
| 05:01.12 | nvz | sure you can.. |
| 05:01.21 | nvz | mount -o remount,ro / |
| 05:02.19 | brachamh | ok i did a read only check |
| 05:02.31 | nvz | was it clean? |
| 05:02.50 | nvz | mount -o remount,rw / |
| 05:02.56 | nvz | systemctl default |
| 05:03.08 | nvz | see what happens |
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| 05:07.54 | brachamh | everything is clean, dirty bit was set on sda2, root partition |
| 05:08.18 | brachamh | if i read it correctly it said it reset it |
| 05:08.33 | brachamh | started a reboot, see what happens |
| 05:08.41 | nvz | @.@ |
| 05:08.58 | nvz | I don't suppose you caught the part where I said at least twice to systemctl default |
| 05:09.05 | nvz | not to reboot |
| 05:09.46 | brachamh | was being a smartass and ignored it...it stopped at the same place so i'll go back and redo it |
| 05:10.03 | nvz | yeah well might as well fsck again now :P |
| 05:10.08 | nvz | since we've learned nothing |
| 05:10.26 | brachamh | just about there |
| 05:10.35 | nvz | see if it also says the fs is dirty again |
| 05:10.53 | nvz | shouldnt if it shutdown properly.. but it shouldnt have the first time |
| 05:11.26 | brachamh | ok so how do i do this? run that mount command, then fsck, then systemctl default ? |
| 05:11.39 | nvz | mount -o remount,ro / |
| 05:11.44 | nvz | fsck /dev/sda2 |
| 05:11.47 | nvz | mount -o remount,rw / |
| 05:11.52 | nvz | systemctl default |
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| 05:12.32 | brachamh | says it's clean |
| 05:12.33 | nvz | thing is when you boot recovery, the system is all booted properly.. in single user.. systemd has what would you say.. settled.. all is working |
| 05:12.45 | nvz | nothing is screwed up at this point |
| 05:12.53 | nvz | make sure you remount it rw |
| 05:13.21 | padhu | How to show username in top panel on debian 10 |
| 05:13.23 | brachamh | i did the remount |
| 05:13.33 | nvz | then tell ol systemd, to start the default and it will load additional services.. see if it still choaks like it does booting normally |
| 05:14.03 | nvz | padhu: I assume you mean gnome? |
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| 05:14.20 | brachamh | hmm...i now have a blank screen with flashing cursor in upper left |
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| 05:14.41 | nvz | yes.. and after a moment you should have the DM login.. |
| 05:15.10 | brachamh | well this is a long moment |
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| 05:15.27 | nvz | if you don't see it, try a few things.. try toggling the keyboard leds.. |
| 05:15.33 | nvz | try ctrl+alt+f2 |
| 05:15.35 | padhu | nvz: Now i am using budgie |
| 05:16.14 | brachamh | got tty2 up now |
| 05:16.25 | towo^work | fummelbrumm |
| 05:16.27 | nvz | it loaded a login prompt? |
| 05:17.31 | brachamh | just the command line login on tty2, which came up when i pressed ctrl-alt-f2 |
| 05:17.48 | nvz | ok. login as root |
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| 05:18.02 | brachamh | done |
| 05:18.11 | brachamh | now what? |
| 05:18.12 | nvz | you now have a working system that for some reason isnt loading the dm.. |
| 05:18.27 | brachamh | haha |
| 05:18.35 | nvz | systemctl status gdm3 |
| 05:18.50 | nvz | point is.. journalctl has all the info as to why |
| 05:19.04 | brachamh | it's active |
| 05:19.10 | nvz | since its not persistent by default you need it actually screwed up to see whats goin on |
| 05:19.27 | nvz | brachamh: is there any log info at the bottom? |
| 05:20.34 | brachamh | yes about ten lines, several of which state "child process xxx was already dead |
| 05:21.03 | nvz | ah, so its trying to kill dead children.. what a stand up guy |
| 05:21.17 | nvz | systemctl stop gdm3 |
| 05:21.30 | brachamh | also pam_unix session opened then immediately closed |
| 05:21.57 | brachamh | it's now stopped |
| 05:22.33 | nvz | now try xinit or startx |
| 05:23.06 | brachamh | xinit: fatal server error, cannot run in framebuffer mode |
| 05:23.51 | brachamh | startx: server terminated with error (1). |
| 05:24.03 | nvz | well, now check the log |
| 05:24.11 | nvz | less /var/log/Xorg.0.log |
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| 05:24.27 | nvz | go to the bottom.. by pressing end.. see what it says |
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| 05:25.52 | brachamh | hmm...does debian have issues with radeon devices? |
| 05:26.03 | nvz | brachamh: apparently you do :D |
| 05:26.26 | nvz | but no.. I have a thin client with a radeon R2E, works fine with debian 10 |
| 05:27.03 | nvz | brachamh: is this machine networked? |
| 05:27.16 | nvz | I recall you said earlier there was a ethernet firware issue popping up |
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| 05:28.35 | brachamh | it's not on the network at the moment. i can probably hook it up tomorrow and see if the hardwired one will work. it's what i set up during install. |
| 05:29.06 | brachamh | but i'm going to crash...gotta work in the morning. |
| 05:29.29 | nvz | alright.. |
| 05:29.30 | brachamh | nvz, thanks for your help! |
| 05:29.41 | nvz | probably just need to sort out a video card issue |
| 05:30.00 | brachamh | i'm thinking so cuz everything in this log file is video card related |
| 05:30.03 | nvz | the answer is likely somewhere between xorg log and journalctl -k |
| 05:30.19 | nvz | I'd read carefully looking for errors in journalctl -k |
| 05:31.54 | brachamh | i just punched that in so i'll have it in the command history for tomorrow |
| 05:32.08 | brachamh | thanks! i'll probably look for you again tomorrow when i'm back at it |
| 05:32.22 | nvz | o/ |
| 05:32.22 | brachamh | have a good one! |
| 05:32.29 | nvz | I already have a good one |
| 05:32.35 | nvz | now I'm lookin for a longer one.. |
| 05:32.44 | brachamh | now who's being a smart ass? |
| 05:32.46 | brachamh | lol |
| 05:32.47 | brachamh | later |
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| 06:01.00 | jadax | doesn't "startx" work anymore on debian 10? |
| 06:01.19 | nkuttler | do you get an error? |
| 06:01.23 | jadax | I'm getting back to cmd line with Xorg errors, yeah |
| 06:02.27 | jadax | "failed to set IOPL, operation not permitted" |
| 06:02.30 | jadax | I'm executing startx as user |
| 06:06.31 | jadax | maybe I'm not supposed to startx as user? |
| 06:06.37 | jadax | but then if I do it as root, I get root session |
| 06:06.41 | jadax | that's not optimal either |
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| 06:10.00 | jadax | I created ~/.xinitrc file with exe gnome-session in it and now startx works like a charm |
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| 07:05.42 | lembron | uhm, apt is fooling me? i clearly ask it to installl "php-xsl", but it doesnt https://paste.debian.net/1156598/ |
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| 07:11.25 | themill | ,rprovides php-xsl |
| 07:11.27 | judd | Package php-xsl in buster/amd64 is provided by: php7.3-xml. |
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| 07:15.44 | lembron | themill so... i shouldnt dpkg-query for it, but rather php -m | grep xsl as test i guess? -- guess that kinda makes sense ty |
| 07:16.03 | themill | yeah, when you test for things, it's best to test functionality ;) |
| 07:17.13 | themill | note that the php cli and php module/fpm/etc can also have different configuration, including different modules enabled |
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| 07:49.46 | lesless | Hi folks! I have problems with MPD on ARMv7 - sound is breaking up. It just disappears for a brief moment and then comes back when tune is playing. I checked CPU load during playback, it's below 20%, there are no errors in dmesg and running MPD with verbose logging didn't show anything as well. Here are the details https://gist.github.com/lessless/0538b6f7c33bf7fe66eb441c86239b9e. Any tips how to debug this? |
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| 08:32.43 | ratrace | lesless: could it be a hardware issue? |
| 08:33.00 | lesless | ratrace nope, it works fine on a laptop |
| 08:33.53 | ratrace | well..... if mpd works fine on a laptop, but not on an arm (board), with no apparent software errors or logs .... I'll repeat the question: could it be hardware failure of the ARM thingy? :) |
| 08:34.49 | lesless | ratrace , ah I thought about sound card. Soundcard is working fine on the laptop but it's not with MPD on dev board. Although you're right. Changing dev board may solve it |
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| 09:10.15 | dosmanak | Hello. fai-project.org is down. The channel #fai is invite only. Does anybody know something? |
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| 09:24.25 | ratrace | nope. |
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| 09:27.45 | themill | isn't it on irc.oftc.net? |
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| 09:30.07 | Unit193 | There's 7 people there. |
| 09:30.13 | dosmanak | themill: Thanks, I will try. |
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| 09:46.21 | Regor | rxvt-unicode not giving visual/audio bell . is its something missing in default packags? |
| 09:47.11 | Regor | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:48.36 | Regor | i use dunst based on libnotify ...and it works well in all clients... audio/popup both ... |
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| 10:15.05 | nvz | man xset perhaps |
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| 10:17.35 | Scou_moune_ | Hi i have a question, i have make a cron rules, that run my script for back_up, all that work great, but in my code i use the cmd logname, and that strange because that can't find the true value about this cmd |
| 10:18.09 | Scou_moune | I have try to set the PATH, set the SHELL, use /bin/bash back_up_script but nothing |
| 10:18.45 | AndreasLutro | "that can't find the true value about this cmd" what do you mean by this |
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| 10:18.52 | Scou_moune | That replace /bin/logname by $LOGNAME so that show root and no the user |
| 10:19.41 | Scou_moune | AndreasLutro: that replace /bin/logname by $LOGNAME, so that show "root" and no "user" |
| 10:19.51 | AndreasLutro | I still have no idea what you mean |
| 10:19.58 | Scou_moune | If i use logname in root that show the user |
| 10:20.15 | nvz | !buster su |
| 10:20.15 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 10:20.26 | Scou_moune | yea i use su -l |
| 10:21.20 | Scou_moune | Ok i have remove the set ALWAYS_SET_PATH because in past i use su, so i want work like debian recommand |
| 10:21.53 | ratrace | how and where did you set your crontab? |
| 10:22.08 | nvz | hmm id -n doesn't seem to work either |
| 10:22.12 | Scou_moune | by /etc/cron.d/back_up |
| 10:22.48 | ratrace | `whoami` should |
| 10:22.56 | Scou_moune | because i don't want use crontab -e, so i like this method |
| 10:23.43 | ratrace | Scou_moune: and what's the exact crontab line you're using? |
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| 10:23.47 | nvz | yes whoami works |
| 10:23.56 | Scou_moune | ratrace: 2sec i depaste |
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| 10:24.49 | Scou_moune | https://dpaste.org/QxC9 |
| 10:25.11 | Scou_moune | i have add the SHELL and PATH and /bi/bash for resolv my problem |
| 10:25.38 | ratrace | I'm still not sure what your problem is here. |
| 10:25.45 | Scou_moune | That work great without that, but /bin/logname replace $LOGNAME i think |
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| 10:27.51 | Scou_moune | ratrace: by problem is, in the code back_up22, i use /bin/logname for save file, but that show root, and no the user logname |
| 10:28.14 | Scou_moune | That very strange because /bin/hostname -s work |
| 10:28.21 | ratrace | Scou_moune: what user? you're running the crontab as root, there's no other user |
| 10:29.38 | Scou_moune | ratrace: Humm ok but if i'm in root with su -l or su - root, /bin/logname show the user |
| 10:29.56 | Scou_moune | maybe i do use another trick for take the user loging |
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| 10:30.34 | ratrace | Scou_moune: you're not making much sense here. what user do you expect to see, if you run a script from a root crontab? |
| 10:30.58 | ratrace | as for logname.... I don't know how that behaves. use /usr/bin/whoami |
| 10:31.25 | Scou_moune | ratrace: yea i don't know that my first crontab rules, i thinked if that work in root that work in crontab |
| 10:31.54 | ratrace | still making no sense, sorry. |
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| 10:32.59 | Scou_moune | hum ok :=/ |
| 10:33.24 | ratrace | your crontab is running as root, and it should be capable of running everything you do as root explicitly on the command line, assuming correct environment (eg. properly defined PATH, or use absolute paths) |
| 10:34.34 | ratrace | also, btw, is that tab intended to run every minute really? |
| 10:34.48 | Scou_moune | ratrace yea for the test only |
| 10:34.59 | Scou_moune | After that run every hour |
| 10:35.04 | n1ce | Hi, I'm watching https://wiki.debian.org/BackupAndRecoveryWork and my question is what command I have to run to restore this form of backup? $ dd if=/dev/hda1 | lzop > data |
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| 10:37.07 | ratrace | n1ce: check the lzop manpage and see what's the decompression flag, and then probably something along the lines of lzop -c -d <file> | dd of=/dev/hda1 (this is just an example, don't run it literally without understanding all the parts) |
| 10:37.24 | n1ce | aha, right, thank you ratrace |
| 10:37.41 | n1ce | I supossed something similar but never used lzop |
| 10:37.41 | Scou_moune | :ratrace so you think i do use properly path, so how i do that, i have added a line in script with PATH; export PATH |
| 10:37.59 | ratrace | n1ce: me neither, this one was unexpected |
| 10:38.36 | ratrace | Scou_moune: setting the PATH env variable in the crontab shoud suffice. see the crontab(5) manpage for more info |
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| 10:39.47 | Scou_moune | ratrace: but if i do that, that for all script use by crontab right ? |
| 10:40.00 | Scou_moune | ratrace: thank i do read mantad again :D |
| 10:40.14 | martinus__ | why is apt or apt-get doesn't report obsolete packages , when aptitude is ? I mean it could be important for the common user to know there are obsoletes package installed on the system |
| 10:40.44 | ratrace | Scou_moune: if you set PATH in the _crontab_, then yes it is in the environment for all the scripts run in the tab (unless some of the scripts runs su or sudo and scrubs the environment) |
| 10:41.41 | ratrace | martinus__: you mean like running `apt autoremove` ? |
| 10:41.58 | Scou_moune | ratrace: ok you think that can make a problem or no realy if i don't add strange rules ? |
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| 10:42.24 | ratrace | Scou_moune: I can't parse that sentence, sorry. Perhaps try google translate, it's quite good these days. |
| 10:42.54 | Scou_moune | ratrace: yea sorry for my english, but that better day than day :X |
| 10:43.09 | martinus__ | ratrace: not automatically installed package. I'm rather speaking the fact that you may end with a system with many obsoletes packages (see aptitude search ?obsolete), but when using apt you never get such mention |
| 10:43.59 | martinus__ | so in the end, if one doesn't now *how* to look for obsolete packages... they are never purged |
| 10:44.13 | martinus__ | or, they have no chance to be purged one day |
| 10:44.55 | martinus__ | like "warning, there are x obsolete package(s) on this system" |
| 10:45.14 | ratrace | I'm not really sure what "obsolete" packages are here, then. Sorry I don't use aptitude. Otherwise packages are either installed explicitly or automatically. how does a package become "obsolete" then? |
| 10:46.19 | martinus__ | https://raphaelhertzog.com/2011/02/07/debian-cleanup-tip-2-get-rid-of-obsolete-packages/ |
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| 10:48.38 | martinus__ | Well I must say it's documented in the debian handbook |
| 10:48.40 | martinus__ | :) https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.dist-upgrade.html#id-1.9.22.8 |
| 10:49.11 | ratrace | ah, sounds like something caused by sources.list gymnastics. apparently only aptitude can deal with those. |
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| 10:51.00 | RadoS | I have this setup: |
| 10:51.01 | RadoS | ls -lF |
| 10:51.01 | RadoS | lrwxrwxrwx 1 user group 3 Jul 12 20:17 jjj -> kkk/ |
| 10:51.03 | RadoS | drwxrwxrwx 2 user group 40 Jul 12 20:14 kkk/ |
| 10:51.13 | RadoS | Now as "root", when I ... |
| 10:51.26 | RadoS | cd kkk => OK |
| 10:51.28 | RadoS | cd jjj => |
| 10:51.44 | RadoS | 'bash: cd: jjj: Permission denied' |
| 10:51.47 | RadoS | '-ksh: cd: jjj: [Permission denied]' |
| 10:51.59 | RadoS | WTF? How can "root" not work there?! |
| 10:52.20 | Haohmaru | could it be a file? |
| 10:52.55 | ratrace | RadoS: getfacl /path/to/kkk |
| 10:53.11 | ratrace | eh, jjj not kkk |
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| 10:54.30 | ratrace | also, root may not be always omnipotent. mandatory access control, for example, renders it pretty much a regular user. |
| 10:55.04 | RadoS | you see it's a link to the dir, the "user" _can_ cd both with not error. |
| 10:55.53 | RadoS | getfacl: /tmp/jjj: Permission denied |
| 10:57.35 | RadoS | Can you try to reproduce on your system to verify it's not something special on my system? |
| 10:57.44 | nvz | tmpfs iss not a normal fs |
| 10:58.35 | ratrace | RadoS: I can't reproduce. must run getfacl as root |
| 10:58.39 | RadoS | nvz, happens on non-tmpfs, too. |
| 10:58.52 | ratrace | what filesystem is that? a mountpoint? |
| 10:58.52 | RadoS | ratrace, I did, I pasted the result above. |
| 10:59.18 | ratrace | do you run selinux or do you have some weird apparmor profile on your current shell? |
| 10:59.38 | nvz | it doesnt work for me either (in /tmp0 |
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| 11:00.00 | RadoS | On one it's tmpfs, on another it's lvm2/ext4 (/dev/mapper/vgRoot-tmp on /tmp type ext4). |
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| 11:00.42 | RadoS | ratrace, not knowingly, I started out with "minimal" setuo (no tasks/packages selected). |
| 11:00.46 | ratrace | I can cd into a symlinked dir just fine on a tmpfs |
| 11:00.49 | nvz | yes it doesnt work anywhere |
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| 11:00.59 | nvz | on this server |
| 11:01.01 | RadoS | ratrace, as "root"? |
| 11:01.03 | ratrace | RadoS: yes |
| 11:01.10 | ratrace | and regular user also |
| 11:01.24 | nvz | it works as user but not root here |
| 11:01.31 | ratrace | wut |
| 11:01.41 | RadoS | Hmm, how to track _this_ down? |
| 11:01.59 | nvz | I made a symlink to a dir as user, sudo su, cand cd to symlink |
| 11:02.07 | RadoS | nvz, thanks for confirming. |
| 11:02.07 | nvz | i'd strace it |
| 11:02.35 | nvz | gotta run though |
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| 11:03.39 | RadoS | nvz, good suggestion, when symlink is created by "root", then "root" _CAN_ cd into, now even more: WTF??? |
| 11:04.10 | ratrace | ah yes, indeed, I missed to create the dir and symlink as non-root initially.... this is weird |
| 11:04.45 | ratrace | but wait, I think I remember now, there was a vuln that was patched and now this is the behavior |
| 11:04.59 | RadoS | Exactly... now which package is responsible for this? |
| 11:05.21 | RadoS | ratrace, ah really, if you can point me to it... |
| 11:05.35 | ratrace | fs.protected_symlinks sysctl iirc |
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| 11:06.07 | ratrace | https://sysctl-explorer.net/fs/protected_symlinks/ |
| 11:06.51 | ratrace | yup, that's it. set it to 0 and you can cd into non-root symlink dir |
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| 11:08.58 | RadoS | ratrace, thanks for the clue!!! |
| 11:10.27 | RadoS | It makes sense to protect it... wasn't aware it _was_ done, apparently I don't use it like that too often (wchich is good ;-) |
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| 11:12.42 | ratrace | it was added sometime in the 3.x kernel series, very easy to forget about if you don't deal with it every day |
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| 11:21.03 | hipete | what song should i listen to? |
| 11:23.06 | ratrace | This one is nice: https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ |
| 11:23.26 | nvz | !ot |
| 11:23.26 | dpkg | #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. |
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| 11:30.54 | Scou_moune | yes yes yesss |
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| 11:32.03 | dvs | nope |
| 11:32.06 | nvz | dpkg, protected symlinks is to follow a symlink as another user you need to set fs.proteted_symlinks to 0 in sysctl see https://sysctl-explorer.net/fs/protected_symlinks/ |
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| 11:32.07 | dpkg | nvz: okay |
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| 11:32.29 | nvz | will modify that later when not mobile :P |
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| 11:34.06 | Scou_moune | ratrace: I do run one time my script back_up for add the rules, so i have write in my script [ "$myuser"] || myuser=$(logname); printf 'myuser=%s\n' "$myuser" > /etc/cron.d/back_up |
| 11:34.15 | Scou_moune | Now that work :DDD |
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| 11:34.48 | Scou_moune | ratrace: thank for help |
| 11:35.08 | ratrace | Scou_moune: that's.... terrible. what are you trying to achieve? |
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| 11:35.55 | ratrace | users have their own crontabs under /var/spool/cron/crontabs/ |
| 11:36.31 | ratrace | Scou_moune: so if you have a per-user crontab, just drop a file in there (remember, such tabs have no user specification in them then!), don't do what your'e doing. that's just.... very very wrong. |
| 11:36.53 | ratrace | !xy |
| 11:36.53 | dpkg | Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem |
| 11:36.56 | Scou_moune | ratrace: i have make a script for backup file, and i use on other machine, so i don't want manualy write /home/user, that why i needer logname |
| 11:37.36 | Scou_moune | ratrace: yea i think like this that so great and easy to write |
| 11:37.43 | ratrace | Scou_moune: that is very very bad |
| 11:37.53 | Scou_moune | why ? :( |
| 11:38.26 | nvz | because you're abusing priv seperation and acting as root on a users behalf |
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| 11:38.42 | Scou_moune | :'( |
| 11:38.45 | nvz | he's saying to use a USER crontab |
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| 11:39.10 | ratrace | that. and also are making your system needlessly complex. user tabs are a known feature and instead of hacking root crontab, just create a file for them in the appropriate spool directory |
| 11:39.44 | Scou_moune | nvz: yea i read ok ok i just want that work |
| 11:40.12 | ksk | the cron.d syntax has a field for the user executing the cron - but I am not quite sure what the goal is here at all |
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| 11:41.14 | nvz | job security? write code nobody else can understand? :D |
| 11:41.21 | ksk | this can only be setup by root of course, but I found it a little more tidy to have all cronjobs in one place, instead of various users corntab |
| 11:41.58 | Scou_moune | hum so you say i do add USER in spool |
| 11:42.27 | Scou_moune | you sure that correct for my probleme, i do test so |
| 11:42.53 | Scou_moune | want smash cron |
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| 11:44.02 | Scou_moune | look i just pastbin the part of my code for sure that resolv |
| 11:44.08 | nvz | best to grind cron if youre gonna smoke it :P |
| 11:44.15 | Scou_moune | lol |
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| 11:45.50 | ksk | Scou_moune: https://wiki.debian.org/cron |
| 11:46.54 | Scou_moune | https://dpaste.org/JDdR |
| 11:47.27 | Scou_moune | ksk: thank i have read all; man crontab (show 10lines), man cron, wiki and other |
| 11:47.28 | ksk | please no. |
| 11:47.48 | Scou_moune | so now i remove the printf myvar okok |
| 11:47.49 | ksk | eh. Thats like the 10 ways of not doing it combined I am afraid. |
| 11:48.41 | ksk | What are you trying to do here? This is part of a deployment, where you connect as "user_foo" and want to create a cronjob for that user? |
| 11:49.14 | Scou_moune | ksk: my script back_up22 so a backup of lot of file in file_fold |
| 11:49.20 | Scou_moune | So that tar, gzip and other |
| 11:49.31 | Scou_moune | my probleme is juste /bin/logname |
| 11:49.48 | Scou_moune | just that, crontab don't see the normal user |
| 11:50.14 | Scou_moune | if i use su - root -c "logname"; that show the normal user |
| 11:50.19 | Scou_moune | i just want that |
| 11:50.30 | Scou_moune | cry lot of on the cat |
| 11:51.21 | ksk | Please read again the last two statements of mine - I wont help you "fixing" something which is broken by design. |
| 11:51.44 | Scou_moune | ok ok |
| 11:54.24 | spaceone | I have python-all-{dev,dbg} installed but GDB shows: 0x00007ffff7e11db4 in PyObject_Call (func=<function at remote 0x7fffef4b4ed8>, arg=('foo', None), kw=0x0) at ../Objects/abstract.c:2542 |
| 11:54.26 | spaceone | 2542 ../Objects/abstract.c: No such file or directory. |
| 11:54.30 | spaceone | which package is missing? |
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| 11:58.46 | Scou_moune | ksk: I want to run my back_up22 script with cron so that it makes a backup every X times. This script must be run as root because it saves files in etc and the like. My problem is that crontab does not see normal user of / home / user, so the back_up22 script does not save files from / home / user / bin and the like. Everything works great, it just happened that cron finds the normal user |
| 11:59.31 | Scou_moune | have use google translate |
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| 12:01.20 | Scou_moune | so maybe i have to use a different method to find the normal user than "logname", i don't know, but i am blocking on this point. And I repeat everything works |
| 12:02.54 | Scou_moune | an example ouput https://dpaste.org/uK3B |
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| 12:43.58 | nidhoegger | Hi. I got a lenovo p53s and installed debian testing on it (stable is too old to work). Problem I am having is that everything GUI wise seem to randomly deadlock and take minutes to respond to anything. notably thunderbird, mattermost and nm-applet. is that a known issue and/or is there a way to resolve this? dmesg does not show anything that should not be there |
| 12:45.11 | nvz | nidhoegger: you couldve just installed a newer kernel on stable probably |
| 12:45.36 | Haohmaru | !testing |
| 12:45.36 | dpkg | Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <bullseye>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and ask me about <testing faq> <buster->bullseye> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical! |
| 12:45.38 | nidhoegger | how do I do that? I am willing to try out. I have my workflow with debian and do not want to switch to another distro |
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| 12:46.03 | greycat | If the box boots, you can just add buster-backports sources and install a buster-backports kernel. |
| 12:46.04 | Haohmaru | you install stable and enable "backports" |
| 12:46.09 | nvz | nidhoegger: will it even boot with stable at all? does the installer even see the disk? |
| 12:46.20 | nidhoegger | okay, thank you very much |
| 12:46.39 | nidhoegger | does stable have highDPI support? this thing has a 4k dispaly and I was amazed that on testing highDPI works out of the box |
| 12:46.45 | nvz | if its a case where the installer doesnt see the disk due to some odd new nvme type crap its a bit more complicated |
| 12:46.54 | greycat | (From the description, it sounds like the box booted OK, and only had problems in a desktop environment, so you might try booting into console....) |
| 12:47.04 | nidhoegger | nvz that is the case... |
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| 12:47.36 | nidhoegger | greycat, yes, the console just works like charm. at least on testing (i did not try out anything else as normally the wifi will have trouble on stable) |
| 12:47.47 | nvz | nidhoegger: yeah that makes it a lot more complex as for awhile the testing installer in expert mode would ask you whichbranch to install but last I cheked it didnt |
| 12:47.52 | Haohmaru | speaking of this.. on my debian, when i rotate the display to portrait mode temporarily via xrandr (1200x1920), any new app i open loads up with *huge* GUI |
| 12:47.56 | Haohmaru | how do i turn that off? |
| 12:48.00 | nvz | in those cases you need the INSTALLER runing a new kernel |
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| 12:48.45 | nvz | as for hidpi.. thats quite app specific some things do and some things dont.. in my experience |
| 12:49.20 | nidhoegger | nvz i know that the last time I used stable on 4K it was a bloody mess, the only thing worked was the font scaling and everything basically looked like crap |
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| 12:50.04 | nvz | yeah unfortunately you may be right that testing is a better option |
| 12:50.35 | nvz | stable would be doable but complicated and probably less that ideal I suppose |
| 12:50.59 | nidhoegger | i mean i use testing on 5 other machines and it works like a charm (or nothing I cannot fix or workaround) |
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| 12:51.18 | nvz | fair enough.. |
| 12:51.31 | nidhoegger | i am not that unfamiliar with linux to fix some issues that arise, but in this case I have no fricking idea what is happening as neither dmesg, nor the X11 log nor something else produces an error |
| 12:52.03 | nidhoegger | I tried disabling the discrete gpu, tried to set the envvars for the new nvidia offscreen rendering, tried nouveau and nvidia-driver (so I can mostly rule out that its a driver issue with the graphics card) |
| 12:52.19 | Phase | Windows works :P |
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| 12:54.48 | nidhoegger | Phase, yeah, sucks if your job is to develop a linux software :P |
| 12:55.11 | hexnewbie | Is there something on Debian 10 Buster that would delete my /var/cache/apt/archives? I moved them to a separate 40 GB LV so that they don't fill up my root, but now I see it's empty, and all the packages are not there. Packages stay there every time I call apt-get. What's going on? |
| 12:56.04 | ratrace | hexnewbie: sure you actually mounted the LV? |
| 12:56.06 | nidhoegger | rm pretty much would delete them |
| 12:56.18 | hexnewbie | ratrace: Yes. |
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| 12:56.29 | greycat | "apt-get clean" will delete them |
| 12:56.52 | hexnewbie | Well, I mean, like, automatically. I don't run apt-get clean ever. |
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| 12:57.23 | greycat | if unattended-upgrades is installed, you might dig into that to figure out how it works (I have no idea how it works) |
| 12:57.58 | hexnewbie | Yes, I have it installed and enabled. |
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| 13:00.16 | ratrace | apt daily cron would run apt clean if (apt.conf) APT::Periodic::AutoCleanInterval is not 0 |
| 13:00.16 | apt | that's too long, ratrace |
| 13:00.36 | hexnewbie | apt-config dump | fgrep -i clean -- APT::Periodic::AutocleanInterval "0"; |
| 13:01.36 | greycat | what is "apt daily cron" exactly, and how do I know if I have that? I see an /etc/cron.daily/apt-compat file. |
| 13:01.41 | ratrace | look into unattended upgrades' scripts. iirc there's update and upgrade components of it, so maybe something something runs cleans |
| 13:01.50 | ratrace | greycat: that's the one |
| 13:02.03 | ratrace | it runs /usr/lib/apt/apt.systemd.daily |
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| 13:02.41 | hexnewbie | I now remember there was something in the Buster upgrade email (or Stretch upgrade email) that 'apt' (but not 'apt-get') would delete these. I should try finding the email... |
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| 13:03.16 | greycat | So... many... missing... quotes. |
| 13:03.24 | greycat | if [ $UpdateInterval = always ] || |
| 13:04.11 | greycat | And... what the hell, is this thing a string or an integer? [ $AutocleanInterval = always ] || [ $AutocleanInterval -eq 0 ] && |
| 13:04.22 | hexnewbie | If that's the cause I need: Binary::apt::APT::Keep-Downloaded-Packages "true"; |
| 13:04.30 | hexnewbie | I'll try that one and see if the packages stay there |
| 13:06.36 | greycat | hexnewbie: "apt install foo" will download foo.deb (and dependencies), then install them, then delete the .deb files that it just downloaded. "apt-get install food" will skip the deleting. |
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| 13:07.09 | greycat | s/food/foo/ |
| 13:08.01 | hexnewbie | Hmm, I also have this: APT::Archives::MaxAge "30"; |
| 13:08.26 | hexnewbie | I can't find documentation for it, but I'll raise it to several hundred years :) |
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| 13:10.38 | hexnewbie | Thanks for the thoughts. |
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| 13:35.34 | karlpinc | What tools exist for testing for network filtering between endpoints? I can scan with nmap, but that'd require something to be listening on the other end. There must be an eaiser way that cooperates between endpoints. |
| 13:36.26 | ratrace | karlpinc: if there's nothing listening so it can respond, how do you differentiate filtering from ..... packets flowing freely but nothing is listening... |
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| 13:36.49 | karlpinc | ratrace: I own both ends and make sure that the remote end is listening. |
| 13:37.06 | greycat | So perform your tests. |
| 13:37.22 | karlpinc | greycat: What tool will listen on all ports? |
| 13:37.26 | greycat | ... |
| 13:37.38 | greycat | YOU JUST SAID that it is listening!! |
| 13:37.40 | ratrace | karlpinc: so what's your question then really? you can use iperf, or netcat, or just ping around, |
| 13:38.09 | karlpinc | I'm looking for a tool that runs on both ends. On one end listens, on the other probes. |
| 13:38.14 | ratrace | iperf |
| 13:38.16 | greycat | *plonk&* |
| 13:38.27 | greycat | whatever this is, I do not want |
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| 13:39.10 | karlpinc | ratrace: I'll take a look. Thanks. |
| 13:39.11 | ratrace | karlpinc: nmap is actually the tool you want. no tool can differentiate "nothing listening" from "the packet filter just did a REJECT" |
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| 13:40.02 | karlpinc | ratrace: Sure a tool can. If it's talking to the remote end and knows the remote end is listening, and then it probes and the probe fails, the network is filtering. |
| 13:40.15 | greycat | My *guess* is that for some asinine reason, he wants to test the hypothetical scenario "if I had a service listening on port 777, and tried to reach it from workstation A, would some magical firewall stop me", but without actually running a service on port 777, or having a workstation A. |
| 13:40.37 | greycat | Which is just bizarre as fuck. |
| 13:41.07 | ratrace | karlpinc: I don't know of a tool that will simultaneously listen on 64k ports or whatever like that. Why do you need that though, this smells like an XY problem. |
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| 13:41.37 | karlpinc | greycat: The reason is that my ISP is blocking traffic. And I want to know what they're blocking. I can tell them to unblock and they will, but for some asinie reason they will only unblock one port at a time. |
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| 13:42.10 | ratrace | greycat: no such tool exists. one needs something listening on port 777 to complete the tcp handshake because a broken packet filter, for example, could allow syn, but not ack |
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| 13:42.29 | ratrace | karlpinc: so test the ports that you actually need? why test 64k ports.... |
| 13:42.43 | karlpinc | ratrace: It does not have to listen on all ports at once, just test one at a time. |
| 13:42.52 | ratrace | karlpinc: so use netcat |
| 13:43.14 | ratrace | OR... use mtr. with that at least you can see how far the icmp or syn or udp (whichever you test) packets got |
| 13:43.16 | karlpinc | ratrace: Because I don't know what ports I might need. Or I might want to probe on some client's network someday. |
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| 13:43.41 | karlpinc | I'll whack something together. |
| 13:43.47 | neilthereildeil | hey guys. whats the use of hugetlbfs? |
| 13:44.04 | ratrace | karlpinc: I don't understand then. so technically you want to test 64k ports "just in case you need one some day"? |
| 13:44.40 | ratrace | though really it's just 10k iirc, 10k+ is reserved for ephemeral ports |
| 13:45.03 | karlpinc | ratrace: Yes. Exactly. If a client has, say, a netbios port open, I want to be able to probe it and see. But if my ISP is blocking outbound netbios, then I won't be able to. |
| 13:45.18 | ratrace | but anway... I don't see the point. Test the typical ports for typical services. http(s), smtp(s), submission(s), pop3(s), imap(s), ...(s) |
| 13:45.45 | karlpinc | ratrace: The point is, I want to be able to communicate using IP. |
| 13:45.48 | ratrace | karlpinc: then netcat or whip something up in python, should be relatively easy. |
| 13:45.53 | neilthereildeil | is hugetlbfs basically a ramdisk? |
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| 13:46.31 | karlpinc | ratrace: Yeah. Not too hard. (And I know that port 22 is open and can use that to connect the endpoints. :) |
| 13:47.39 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: yes, designed for large page sizes |
| 13:48.12 | neilthereildeil | is it only used for FS operations? or can it be used just to avoid TLB misses in an application? |
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| 13:49.17 | ratrace | it's for specific kind of IPC where large memory pages are beneficial (eg, large data/bulk transfers, etc...) |
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| 13:49.30 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: read this: https://lwn.net/Articles/374424/ |
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| 14:28.53 | AliSh | Hey guys, I hope you're doing well, I am an Ubuntu user who wants migrate to another distro, I am wonder if I can rely on Debian testing (I want recent version of some apps, e.g. ff and chromium, as I'm a dev), do you have any experience on that? |
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| 14:32.45 | mason | AliSh: Testing is for testing. If you're looking to report bugs and make the next release of Debian better, go for it. |
| 14:33.58 | AliSh | I'll be happy to try that and return back favour as I'm using it freely and also learn more about Linux, but I have to keep my environment safe to be able work and get income :D |
| 14:34.39 | mason | AliSh: If you want to learn Linux gizzards, also look at Slackware. |
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| 14:37.25 | AliSh | I've never installed that |
| 14:37.31 | cybercrypto | AliSh: Debian testing (often more stable than many other 'stable' distros) is not going to give you an stable environment. |
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| 14:37.58 | AliSh | mason but distrowatch shows outdated softwares |
| 14:38.16 | cybercrypto | AliSh: I contantly see people trying Debian testing, as it were a 'rolling release'. It is not a rolling release. |
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| 14:38.31 | Poster | outdated and stable are most often one in the same |
| 14:38.45 | gpeskens | What is the best way when packaging for debian to force systemd services to restart on upgrade? |
| 14:38.51 | AliSh | cybercrypto so what's the best option for me? (I have opensuse, fedora, puppy "which is not good for my job :D ") |
| 14:38.53 | mason | AliSh: I use shockingly old software most of the time. It's a source of joy. It can be for you too. |
| 14:38.59 | greycat | I *still* do not understand these people who claim to be "devs" but they feel they need "latest tools". A serious dev wants their build environment to use the *oldest* possible/reasonable toolset, so that the finished product will work on the widest possible range of targets. |
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| 14:39.38 | AliSh | greycat I am a web dev and I need ff and chromium as my customer is using damn Windows with latest of them |
| 14:39.44 | mason | greycat: That's not the devops way, where you *need* features that haven't so much as hit a stable release upstream yet. *Need*. |
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| 14:40.11 | oiaohm | greycat: using the oldest possible toolkit mix can lead you to having a lot of security faults to fix quickly. |
| 14:40.11 | mason | AliSh: That's easy. Use stable software for your own environment, and have a testing environment with the bleeding edge stuff. |
| 14:40.38 | AliSh | mason that sounds great |
| 14:40.40 | cybercrypto | AliSh: the mason's suggest is quite good. To learn and get to understand the core of linux, slackware is my favorite (I use it since 94 =~) |
| 14:40.49 | oiaohm | greycat: some of the reason why flatpak runtimes can be tempting. |
| 14:40.55 | mason | AliSh: Depending on a personal environment for testing is going to be very incomplete. |
| 14:41.25 | AliSh | OK, I can stick with stable, have vbox with testing and unstable env to learn more |
| 14:41.34 | AliSh | good advice guys, thanks a lot |
| 14:41.51 | cybercrypto | AliSh: opensuse offers a rolling-release, it is the mid-term of stable and 'new' software, I guess. Fedora also claim to offer 'edge' software as well. |
| 14:41.53 | mason | AliSh: vbox is okay, but if you're running Debian, libvirt and qemu/kvm is probably better for you. |
| 14:42.16 | AliSh | mason thanks, I'll give them a try |
| 14:42.24 | greycat | Oh. flatpak. Barf. " |
| 14:42.34 | mason | AliSh: https://wiki.debian.org/libvirt |
| 14:42.38 | oiaohm | AliSh: if you are after a handful of fairly new software but want everything else older and more tested. flatpak/appimage/snap of those applications can be a good option. |
| 14:42.39 | AliSh | if it wasn't for snapd, I wouldn't leave Ubuntu, I hate reinstalling everything |
| 14:43.01 | greycat | Oh. flatpak. Barf. "I built this on a pre-alpha release of glibc, and therefore you can't run it on any actual Linux in the wild, but that's OK, I'll just bundle my entire rolled-my-own Linux distribution for you." |
| 14:43.02 | AliSh | oiaohm I don't like snap... |
| 14:43.32 | oiaohm | AliSh: snap is horrible with it loopbacks and the on going performance effects. |
| 14:43.41 | mason | greycat: What, you won't want random black boxes peppering your environment? |
| 14:44.00 | oiaohm | AliSh: I put flatpak and appimage before snap for that reason. |
| 14:44.29 | AliSh | The drawback of snap is that I am a Linux user because of security, everything from official repository, but snap flatpak... I don't wanna anything out of the box |
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| 14:45.25 | cybercrypto | AliSh: Slackware is great, but there is no 'systemd' in there (cutting the obvious and long discussion). If youre work depends on systemd (or) it is targetting distros with systemd, you may consider another one. |
| 14:46.01 | AliSh | cybercrypto I don't have knowledge about that, I have to check |
| 14:46.10 | oiaohm | greycat: flathub standard runtimes don't use pre-alpha glibc. Newer than the oldest possible reasonable toolkit but not newer than a lot of distributions include. |
| 14:46.20 | AliSh | I used NodeJS and Docker, nothing else |
| 14:46.33 | AliSh | *use |
| 14:46.43 | annadane | people keep recommending slackware but to be honest 14.2 was released forever ago and i'm not sure you can't "learn linux" by just using, you know, debian |
| 14:46.55 | greycat | oh. there are actual *rules* and restrictions on the bleeding-edge crap? that's good to hear. |
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| 14:47.04 | AliSh | annadane the same thought pushing me |
| 14:47.23 | AliSh | :D |
| 14:47.27 | AliSh | why left? |
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| 14:48.13 | annadane | a great way to 'learn' is also just reading documentation |
| 14:48.32 | greycat | Not for most people. |
| 14:48.36 | annadane | http://www.linuxcommand.org/tlcl.php/ and https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/ are good starts |
| 14:48.55 | AliSh | you can't learn just by reading |
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| 14:49.31 | AliSh | you have to break some app/package/service to find yourself gaining knowledge by fixing |
| 14:49.53 | AliSh | I learned how to install debian about 13 years ago by erasing my hdd several times |
| 14:50.24 | annadane | to each their own but i just don't think 'use slackware' is necessarily good advice |
| 14:50.42 | cybercrypto | annadane: I agree, it was release long ago, does not receive all the community support as debian (which I firmly believe, debian community is the main reason Linux is strong)... still if you check slackware current, they are very active and releasing updates. |
| 14:51.17 | greycat | I think a lot of the "learn on Slackware" advice comes from anti-systemd people. Not all of it. |
| 14:51.46 | greycat | Some of it may be coming from the "you need shit that doesn't work very well, so you have to fix it" minset. |
| 14:51.49 | greycat | mindset |
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| 14:51.53 | merethan_w | Hi all |
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| 14:52.52 | cybercrypto | I guess, one can read and learn by doing, with 'linuxfromscratch'... this will be even better for understanding the 'distro' work. |
| 14:53.38 | mason | annadane: People can learn with Debian, but it masks a ton of stuff. Especially now that it's been infested with systemd, there's no reason for anyone to go beyond localectl to understand that it's actually driving loadkeys, etc. |
| 14:53.59 | annadane | yeah, well, systemd is mainstream now so they'll have to learn it |
| 14:54.29 | mason | annadane: That doesn't speak to the point I made. systemd drives lower-level things, and you have no reason or opportunity to learn if it's all being done for you. |
| 14:54.30 | annadane | it also makes people's lives easier in many cases |
| 14:54.49 | mason | annadane: Again, that misses the point. We're talking about learning how it all works, very specifically. |
| 14:54.51 | annadane | okay, but you're still learning adequately if you learn the modern tools |
| 14:55.01 | annadane | if the user wants to know more low level things they can |
| 14:55.01 | mason | annadane: You're learning systemd, not Linux. |
| 14:55.09 | annadane | you can learn both |
| 14:55.18 | mason | annadane: And again, that's the point. In the normal course of things using Slackware you see more of the underlying parts. |
| 14:55.20 | annadane | there isn't just one path through this |
| 14:55.31 | annadane | okay, but like, run slackware in a vm or something |
| 14:55.32 | greycat | mason: because they don't work, and you have to fix them |
| 14:55.44 | mason | greycat: loadkeys has never broken for me. localectl has. |
| 14:55.54 | greycat | then why do you know anything about loadkeys? |
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| 14:56.09 | greycat | I don't know what *either* of those things is. |
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| 14:56.25 | mason | annadane: You can learn how a transmission works pretty well regardless of whether you drive an automatic or a stick. Which do you think will do a better job getting you to viscerally understand the transmission's behaviour as it runs? |
| 14:56.42 | mason | greycat: You've proven my point right there. |
| 14:56.56 | annadane | because it depends on the user |
| 14:57.03 | mason | greycat: It's what's doing the actual work of handling keymaps. It's useful sometimes to understand this. |
| 14:57.04 | greycat | That Debian's shit works, and therefore we don't have to learn the mechanics of implementing whatever-the-fuck-you-are-harping-about? |
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| 14:57.09 | annadane | for basic proficiency learning systemd so you can actually do stuff on modern systems is fine |
| 14:57.14 | annadane | if they wish to explore alrernatives they can |
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| 14:57.44 | mason | greycat: That's it. Yes. Of course. Sort of the conservative view. "I don't know it, so clearly no one else would benefit from knowing it. It's not critical." |
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| 14:58.27 | mason | annadane: Might be good to go back to scrollback to see what the fellow actually wanted. If he wanted to learn to get along and have marketable skills, he'd be just fine sticking with Ubuntu. |
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| 14:58.31 | annadane | the fact of the matter is one is unlikely to run slackware as their main distribution unless they're a bit die hard so you may as well start on something like debian |
| 14:58.40 | annadane | where you don't have to build everything from source |
| 14:58.48 | cybercrypto | greycat: I agree. I am pro 'systemd' architecture. Thats why I asked AliSh if his work targets systemd dev or if it is independent. Perhaps targetting his development towards debian-stable would be the best option (Learning is a different question) |
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| 14:59.12 | mason | annadane: You have to build very little from source with Slackware. You're thinking of Gentoo. |
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| 14:59.19 | annadane | still |
| 14:59.56 | mason | Linux From Scratch was suggested and is probably better still for learning. I've not tried it yet. |
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| 15:04.19 | EdePopede | slackware was my first distro. so it can't be *that* hard to get behind how it works. granted, this was more than 20 years ago, bootdisks, startx and manually edited wm configs. |
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| 15:05.01 | cybercrypto | My view and suggestion: LFS=you will learn how to assemble your own distro from zero. Slackware=you get the system up and running easy-to-install as a bonus, but you have to read a lot to use it 'daily basis' I suggest LFS only for hobbie projects, otherwise you will not be able to maintain it yourself, in production 'updated' |
| 15:05.47 | mason | It's worth trying it all over time. Experience is experience. |
| 15:06.29 | cybercrypto | true |
| 15:06.55 | metbsd | it's either arch or debian for home use |
| 15:07.02 | metbsd | commercial use there's rhel/centos |
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| 15:07.48 | metbsd | lfs or gentoo are not worth it |
| 15:07.58 | metbsd | hardware and electricity cost money too |
| 15:08.03 | metbsd | and time consuming |
| 15:09.03 | mason | metbsd: To be fair, Gentoo lets you build once and distribute anywhere with trivial ease. |
| 15:09.28 | mason | So the carbon footprint could be lower than Debian if, for instance, you use any DKMS on Debian. |
| 15:10.00 | matti | The Linux Kernel Report live stream - https://linuxplumbers.lwn.net/b/LPC-kernel-report |
| 15:10.09 | rgwu | mason: What percentage of Gentoo users are using gentoo because it let's them avoid building? |
| 15:10.46 | mason | rgwu: Well, if you look at spin-offs like CoreOS, the majority. Upstream Gentoo, probably fewer. |
| 15:11.47 | moldy | if you build once and distribute binkpgs to a few dozend of machines you still use more cpu time / electricity than if you just install binary packages built once and used by millions of machines |
| 15:13.56 | ratrace | makes sense |
| 15:14.28 | rgwu | The notion that Gentoo has fewer watts per install than any other distro is laughable. There are plenty of things to like about Gentoo, power consumption and time consumption are not among them. |
| 15:14.50 | ratrace | TrueStory(tm) |
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| 15:25.07 | cybercrypto | metbsd: I believe that every root distro is worth trying for learning. lfs,slack,gentoo, even bsd's). But the guy who asked about debian-testing was leaving ubuntu due to 'snapd' and to get 'latest software'. We tried to show him that stable + latest hardly comes in the same sentence. |
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| 15:26.02 | EdePopede | wouldn't this be mostly bleeding edge web browsers for a web dev? |
| 15:27.05 | greycat | "I'm a web dev" vs. "I'm a dev" would indeed explain a lot about the incredible divide in understanding between us. |
| 15:27.36 | EdePopede | sadly web browsers rot faster than fresh tomatoes |
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| 15:27.56 | greycat | "I'm a dev" -> I need to write software that compiles and runs on the widest possible range of target systems. If I release binaries, they must be built on the oldest possible target so that they run on that target or newer. |
| 15:28.05 | greycat | "I'm a web dev" -> I only need to get it to work on ONE machine. |
| 15:28.15 | EdePopede | heh and this |
| 15:28.25 | metbsd | if you are not devellping a distribution i don't see the point to "learn" os |
| 15:28.56 | cybercrypto | Agree. His simple question led to this great discussion. I enjoy this learning a lot :-) |
| 15:29.10 | EdePopede | some people prefer to know how the things they are using an a daily basis actually work. at least to a reasonable point. |
| 15:30.28 | metbsd | if you learn a programming language you can write programs. if you learn linux os what you gonna be? xxx@gentoo.org or xxx@debian.org |
| 15:30.32 | EdePopede | at least a "user" (really classic meaning here) should know how to move a bookmark back into the main bookmark menu after accidentally dragging it into a submenu due to not being able to click properly. |
| 15:30.55 | greycat | metbsd: system administrator |
| 15:31.13 | EdePopede | or how to restore a file from the waste bin. and yes, they exist. |
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| 15:35.14 | EdePopede | i remember when PS/2 found its way into the PC world, into the markets, with its coloured connectors. they had people assemble them in front of the market just to see if it's as easy as advertised. has there *ever* been something similar with debian or some other linux? |
| 15:35.44 | EdePopede | a brand new pc, a set of disks. or a stick, doesn't matter. |
| 15:36.43 | metbsd | too many better things to learn other than those distribution, docker, distributed file system,cluster server, cisco |
| 15:37.07 | metbsd | some of those distributions are not even professional |
| 15:38.23 | metbsd | some distribution just tweak a little kernel, different naming for hier, package management system, and tada, new distribution with new bugs. |
| 15:38.30 | metbsd | they are not worth learning |
| 15:38.38 | metbsd | IMO |
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| 15:41.17 | cybercrypto | metbsd: Agree. Yes, thats why my suggestion: root distros. (non-derivatives) like the ones I said earlier. |
| 15:42.04 | EdePopede | some distros maybe would even better just contribute to the one of the other ones |
| 15:42.57 | moldy | i just install web browsers directly from upstream |
| 15:43.25 | annadane | does gnome-boxes have a more discrete way of setting ram/disk space? the slider thing doesn't seem easy to set it to 'exactly' 50 gb or whatever |
| 15:43.28 | cybercrypto | metbsd: I am curious, please tell me: what is your suggestion to learn Linux OS, if I ask you that question (dont tell me to learn other 'better' thinks to learn) |
| 15:43.51 | cybercrypto | *things |
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| 15:45.39 | EdePopede | annadane: remember the days when there weren't sliders all over the place, instead an editable text area with an integer and 2 arrows on top of each other to change it? |
| 15:46.39 | annadane | i wish regular qemu was a bit more noob friendly then i wouldn't have to install frontends |
| 15:46.44 | annadane | or maybe i'm not trying hard enough |
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| 15:57.17 | merethan_w | gcc-avr is still at 5.4.0 in Debian 10, but the latest is gcc 10. Any particular reason? Or who should I ask for a reason? |
| 15:59.18 | annadane | ,i gcc-avr |
| 15:59.19 | Miles8of9 | you don't change a winning team! |
| 15:59.20 | judd | Package gcc-avr (devel, optional) in buster/amd64: GNU C compiler (cross compiler for avr). Version: 1:5.4.0+Atmel3.6.1-2; Size: 14945.2k; Installed: 70376k |
| 16:00.54 | annadane | gcc in debian 10 is actually gcc 8, i don't know about the relation of gcc-avr to gcc but are you familiar with how debian works? it doesn't have newer versions of software, generally; if there's a problem with not having a latest version of something there's ways to get it |
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| 16:01.20 | annadane | ,v gcc-avr |
| 16:01.22 | judd | Package: gcc-avr on amd64 -- jessie: 1:4.8.1+Atmel3.4.4-2; stretch: 1:4.9.2+Atmel3.5.3-1; buster: 1:5.4.0+Atmel3.6.1-2; bullseye: 1:5.4.0+Atmel3.6.1-2+b1; sid: 1:5.4.0+Atmel3.6.1-2+b1 |
| 16:01.37 | annadane | even in sid it's the same version as in stable |
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| 16:05.12 | annadane | it's actually two distinct questions, 1) you're asking about gcc-avr being version 5 in relation to a different gcc version and 2) you're making the assumption you need gcc 10 in general |
| 16:06.57 | _DeLa_ | On my HP Probook x360 11 G1 EE, I used debian10 expert install to skip installation of grub so I could finish debian installation withouth freezing during grub install. Using the info from https://blog.blupig.net/recover-from-unbootable-linux I was able to then boot into regular desktop environment (root). Installing grub from there via "grub-install /dev/sda" (after apt-get install grub, of course) left me with error-message " |
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| 16:07.28 | sleepingforest | So ive installed a select number of packages from buster-backports. if i understand correctly, buster-backports is stable compatible ports from testing. so there should be no problem. Now i want to install a single package from sid, and I've added sid repo and configured pinning preferences similar to http://jaqque.sbih.org/kplug/apt-pinning.html. I should be fine to install or pin one package from sid |
| 16:07.30 | sleepingforest | this way, right? |
| 16:07.37 | _DeLa_ | Any help will be greatly appreciated ... |
| 16:07.48 | annadane | sleepingforest, which package |
| 16:07.55 | sleepingforest | annadane: keepassxc |
| 16:08.03 | annadane | ,v keepassxc |
| 16:08.04 | judd | Package: keepassxc on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 2.3.4+dfsg.1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.3.4+dfsg.1-1; buster-backports: 2.5.4+dfsg.1-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2.5.4+dfsg.1-1; sid: 2.6.0+dfsg.1-1 |
| 16:08.09 | annadane | well, it's already in backports |
| 16:08.13 | annadane | does that suffice? |
| 16:08.58 | sleepingforest | annadane: keepassxc devs end up breaking compatability with older versions when the web extension is used. so Id prefer to run the latest version |
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| 16:09.11 | annadane | ,checkbackport keepassxc |
| 16:09.12 | judd | Backporting package keepassxc in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12). |
| 16:09.27 | annadane | afaik debhelper-compat can be ignored so you can self backport |
| 16:09.27 | sleepingforest | wow this bot |
| 16:09.32 | annadane | !tell sleepingforest about ssb |
| 16:09.40 | sleepingforest | annadane: appreciated! |
| 16:09.58 | annadane | i don't know too much about sid pinning but it's not as a general rule, recommended, so i would try that instead |
| 16:10.36 | sleepingforest | yeah, i'm afraid ill end up breaking my system through incompatible deps |
| 16:10.38 | annadane | sleepingforest, comment out the sid repo and add the sid repo under deb-src instead |
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| 16:12.01 | annadane | pinning is one of those solutions that (like a lot of bad debian advice) gets recommended a lot but it depends on the specific situation |
| 16:13.44 | sleepingforest | i dont feel confident enough understanding the implications of using it just based on the wiki alone. theres not terribly much info there |
| 16:14.09 | annadane | and 'pin this package' tends to lead to 'just pin everything from sid' which tends to lead to 'i have a bunch of broken dependencies' |
| 16:14.23 | sleepingforest | yeah exactly what i feel like would happen |
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| 16:16.59 | sleepingforest | do you think i should delete the apt prefs i installed setting priorities for stable=700, buster-backports=650 testing=400 unstable=300? I dont use testing or sid. and I have other apt repos. iirc they were all 500 by default, maybe bpo was lower |
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| 16:19.58 | annadane | i'll leave that up to others but my guess is yes, probably |
| 16:20.17 | annadane | afaik you don't need to explicitly set priorities for backports |
| 16:21.14 | annadane | (one of those, 'if you need to ask, then no', likely) |
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| 16:52.29 | annadane | what's the main spellcheck thing for libreoffice? hunspell? |
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| 17:02.04 | annadane | ah apparently it's already installed/enabled by default |
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| 17:34.24 | Regor | what default emoji picker comes with debian that opens emojis table with ctrl+: ? |
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| 17:35.13 | Regor | it came with xfce debian |
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| 17:35.55 | annadane | i don't know of any by default but take a look at apt show task-xfce-desktop and see if you can find it in the list of depends/recommends |
| 17:36.26 | Regor | thanks |
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| 17:36.55 | annadane | i know it's definitely not in the xfce4 package |
| 17:37.23 | greycat | "it came with xfce" seems to imply that they already *have* it and just want to know what it's called...? |
| 17:37.54 | Regor | exactly ... my friend used xubuntu it was there too... |
| 17:38.06 | greycat | so, open it and then find it in the process lsit? |
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| 17:38.18 | Regor | i had to install only noto emoji colors fonts.. and it started working ..without any tinkering .. |
| 17:38.26 | Regor | checking |
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| 17:40.08 | annadane | (the world would be better with less emojis) |
| 17:41.30 | Regor | ys..but i see blocks thats ugly .. |
| 17:41.56 | annadane | wait, do you mean "how do i see emojis in hexchat"? |
| 17:42.15 | annadane | or some other program... as opposed to "i'm trying to find the emoji picker program" |
| 17:42.42 | annadane | because those are two separate questions |
| 17:43.14 | Regor | noooo |
| 17:43.31 | Regor | i use weechat ... |
| 17:43.41 | annadane | apt show fonts- <tab tab> will show a bunch of them |
| 17:43.53 | annadane | okay, so your real question is "how can i see emojis in weechat" |
| 17:44.07 | annadane | you may want to ask #weechat |
| 17:44.22 | Regor | noooooooo |
| 17:44.53 | greycat | Then please write an actual question. |
| 17:44.53 | Regor | how to view and put emojis in debian... |
| 17:45.22 | mason | metbsd: Sheer curiosity and love of the stuff is enough reason to learn. And yeah, that can turn into involvement with one or more of the OSes. |
| 17:45.23 | greycat | One way is to configure X to use a Compose key, and type a few mnemonic keys. |
| 17:45.35 | mason | Oh, I was buried in scrollback. |
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| 17:45.53 | greycat | instructions for configuring the keyboard based way are at https://wiki.debian.org/XCompose |
| 17:45.53 | Regor | what default emoji picker comes with debian that opens emojis table with ctrl+: |
| 17:46.30 | greycat | Apparently nobody knows. But YOU seem to have one, so open it up, and then find out what it is by examining the process list, or using programs that identify the origin of an X window, etc. |
| 17:46.58 | annadane | also have you tested that this emoji picker even works in weechat? |
| 17:47.06 | diogenes_ | Regor, it probably comes with ibus. |
| 17:47.37 | diogenes_ | look in ibus settings. |
| 17:47.41 | Regor | ahh.. sounds familiar ... ibus table ...something ?? |
| 17:47.52 | Regor | yeah.. now i get it ...hahah |
| 17:47.55 | mason | Wow, never heard of %L in .XCompose before. Nifty. |
| 17:47.58 | greycat | I've never seen xfce, let alone used it, and I have no idea how a GUI "emoji picker" would work. Does it just copy the chosen character into the X clipboard? |
| 17:48.30 | mason | I always just include a file directly. |
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| 17:48.42 | annadane | i used xfce for a while and never heard of an emoji picker (though i didn't look very thoroughly into some of the apps the tasksel installs because i usually always use other things like feh mpv etc) |
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| 17:48.55 | _DeLa_ | I just want to boot into my debian 10 desktop â do I need to install grub at all or is there a way to automate the few lines from https://blog.blupig.net/recover-from-unbootable-linux into automation somehow? |
| 17:49.08 | mason | ah, man 5 xcompose has even more expansion |
| 17:49.09 | mason | s |
| 17:50.50 | annadane | https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=13946 this is from april 2020 and it's a feature request so debian stable probably definitely doesn't have an xfce emoji picker |
| 17:51.02 | annadane | debian in general quite possibly does have one so you can just apt search for that and install one |
| 17:51.44 | annadane | or look more into this ibus thing |
| 17:51.58 | Regor | diogenes_: thanks.. its done ! ðï¸ |
| 17:52.00 | greycat | I'm *so* confused. He keeps saying he has one and it opens up when he presses a certain key combo. But then he acts like he doesn't have it. |
| 17:52.33 | annadane | !next |
| 17:52.33 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 17:52.36 | diogenes_ | Regor, you're welcome. |
| 17:52.40 | Regor | hahah |
| 17:53.51 | annadane | (or check the debian wiki which has a bunch of obscure fringe entries) |
| 17:54.09 | annadane | the Fonts page may have something |
| 17:54.23 | annadane | actually now *i'm* confusing things, so never mind |
| 17:54.40 | Regor | hehe..its ok |
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| 17:55.22 | annadane | emoji picker =/= package to view fonts in weechat |
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| 18:06.48 | sponix | !ssb |
| 18:06.48 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
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| 19:03.06 | nkuttler | ,v watchman |
| 19:03.07 | judd | Package: watchman on amd64 -- bullseye: 4.9.0-4; sid: 4.9.0-4 |
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| 19:25.27 | Orcs53 | Hi everybody, I have a question, if anybody could assist. How do I add a self-signed CA certificate to the CA certificates on Debian. I have tried moving the certificate to "/etc/ssl/certs" and "/etc/ssl/newcerts" and then running update-ca-certificates but I get the output "0 added, 0 removed; done.". Can anyone offer any suggestions? |
| 19:27.31 | dvs | Orcs53, I put the .pem file in /etc/ssl/certs and the key file in /etc/ssl/private and that seems to work |
| 19:29.11 | Orcs53 | I would also like to add that this is a client machine, a service on another machine is encrypted, to which this machine is a client. Thus, preferably the private key would not be on this machine. |
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| 19:38.24 | mutante | Orcs53: what service is using the certs? i would think it just depends which path to the CA file you put in its config |
| 19:38.33 | karlpinc | Orcs53: You could tell us more about how you know it does not work. |
| 19:39.02 | mutante | also there is /etc/ssl/localcerts for the ones made ..eh..locally |
| 19:40.04 | dvs | mutante, I don't have a /etc/ssl/localcerts directory |
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| 19:40.57 | mutante | dvs: oh my bad, it might actually be our local config that changes the path and not default in Debian |
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| 19:45.14 | kittonian | hi all. i had to redo my network addressing and went from a single /8 to multiple /24 subnets |
| 19:45.22 | kittonian | now I cannot get dhcp to start |
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| 19:46.00 | kittonian | I have edited the dhcp.conf file and modified the subnet, etc. but when it tries to start, it still thinks it should use the old information and it fails |
| 19:46.08 | kittonian | not sure how to resolve |
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| 19:52.56 | kittonian | anyone? |
| 19:52.56 | Orcs53 | karlpinc I have znc IRC bouncer running in a container, I have it server over SSL. In another container I have thelounge IRC web client, these are connected by a bridge network. I have copied the self-signed certificated and attempted to install them following the instructions here |
| 19:52.57 | Orcs53 | https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/ca-certificates/update-ca-certificates.8.en.html. If connecting over SSL but without verifying the certificate everything works, however, if I check to verify the certificate, I get this error "*** Connection closed unexpectedly: Error: self signed certificate". The container the deploys thelounge IRC web client |
| 19:52.57 | Orcs53 | is running Debian 9 (stretch), and this is where I must configure the self-signed certificates. Any help would be appreciated! |
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| 19:53.35 | Orcs53 | I hope this makes the problems I am facing clearer. |
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| 20:00.48 | dvs | Orcs53, it sounds like the program you're trying to connect to will not accept a self-signed certificate, *ANY* self signed certificate. |
| 20:01.16 | eigenfire | Self-signed certificates will never, ever pass verification. Ever. |
| 20:01.47 | eigenfire | At least not without doing things that are very ill-advised. |
| 20:02.17 | Orcs53 | Oh, alright. I thought if they where installed on the client machine it would consider that a verified certificate. |
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| 20:39.33 | jhutchins | why would you need ssl for a connection within the same computer? |
| 20:41.20 | cyberbanjo | jhutchins maybe If your running a development server locally? Idk |
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| 20:41.58 | jhutchins | Proof of concept I guess. |
| 20:44.01 | jhutchins | Orcs53: I'm afraid that's a rather specialized setup, and software not many people out of this group use. |
| 20:44.25 | jhutchins | Orcs53: I would suggest that you might have better luck with znc support. |
| 20:44.29 | jhutchins | !znc |
| 20:45.04 | jhutchins | Orcs53: znc is also the name of more than one other project than an irc bouncer. |
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| 20:53.30 | Orcs53 | I have tried asking in the #thelounge channel, they maintain the of the Docker container, I have had some help there. But, the container runs Debian 9. So, I am also asking here because configuring the operating system to trust a self-signed certificate authority, which has self-signed server certificates, seems like a very common task one might |
| 20:53.30 | Orcs53 | need to do. If I may rephrase the question. I have a self-signed certificate authority (CA), which I have used to self-sign a SSL server certificate, all of which is on a different machine. On the client machine there is a client application which I would like to be able to connect to the server securely. How do I install and trust this self-signed |
| 20:53.30 | Orcs53 | CA so that the self-signed server certificate verifies and is also trusted. |
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| 20:54.14 | greycat | Your question has nothing to do with operating systems, and everything to do with the software that's *using* (or refusing) your certificate. |
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| 20:58.36 | Orcs53 | The client application is a nodejs app, which uses the CA certificates installed onto the operating system. So, I disagree, the question is related to the OS. I am keen to know more about how to add and trust a self-signed CA certificate, like what detailed in the manual page seen here: |
| 20:58.36 | Orcs53 | https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/ca-certificates/update-ca-certificates.8.en.html |
| 21:00.34 | greycat | I googled and got https://wiki.znc.in/Signed_SSL_certificate |
| 21:00.37 | greycat | it took a few seconds |
| 21:01.08 | greycat | but sure, you go on telling yourself that you know better than all the people helping you, and better than the people who wrote the ZNC wiki |
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| 21:02.41 | greycat | here's another google result from the same query: https://wiki.debian.org/ZNC_IRC_bouncer |
| 21:02.56 | greycat | that one talks about self-signed certificates, so maybe you should read it, or maybe it's out of date, who the hell knows |
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| 21:07.32 | Orcs53 | Thank you for searching for that documentation. However, I have actually already done this. What I am actually asking is, how do I get Debian which is running in another container to trust the self-signed CA I generated, so that openssl then trusts and will verify the self-signed server certificate. And thus, the client app can connect securely to |
| 21:07.32 | Orcs53 | the server. |
| 21:10.06 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 21:10.17 | annadane | lol |
| 21:10.40 | annadane | !tea greycat |
| 21:10.40 | dpkg | hands greycat a nice frosty mug of mint tea. |
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| 21:12.41 | annadane | Orcs53, i know absolutely nothing about this but have you tried grepping the openssl man page for "trust" or something, maybe there's an option to override stuff |
| 21:12.48 | annadane | (unless that's a terrible idea for security but yeah) |
| 21:13.30 | annadane | you can also ask the debian mailing lists if people here don't get around to answering |
| 21:14.23 | nkuttler | um, just add the ca to the others and run update-ca-certificates ? |
| 21:15.07 | greycat | my understanding is, they *did* that, and their application said "Error: self-signed certificate". and they're like "YOU ARE WITHHOLDING A SECRET WHY WON'T YOU TELL ME" |
| 21:15.24 | nkuttler | oh my.. yeah.. some languages will do that |
| 21:15.28 | nkuttler | looks at java |
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| 21:16.26 | Orcs53 | annadane Thank you for your response, this is essentially what I am trying to do. But, I suspect that if it is possible to add and trust a self-signed CA, it is actually done using the tools in the ca-certificates package, see the manual page I posted earlier. |
| 21:16.46 | annadane | right |
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| 21:18.15 | greycat | the only thing that doesn't line up is the Debian wiki page that says ZNC ships with a self-signed certificate, but they didn't want to read the Debian wiki page |
| 21:19.07 | Orcs53 | @greycat I think that although the client app is nodejs, the error output is actually a result of openssl refusing to verify the service certificate against the certificate authorities which a installed with the ca-certificates package. |
| 21:19.27 | annadane | i think the user is on stretch though judging from the link to the man page, maybe it's different between buster and stretch, i'm just spitballing, no clue |
| 21:20.26 | Orcs53 | service -> server* |
| 21:20.33 | nkuttler | Orcs53: you installed the cert in the container that runs the app, right? |
| 21:20.38 | nkuttler | er, the ca |
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| 21:25.40 | Orcs53 | nkuttler, I have tried this. I placed the self-signed CA in "/usr/share/ca-certificates/self-signed/example-ca.crt", then ran "dpkg-reconfigure ca-certificates". This tool was slightly difficult to get working, but, the CA did show up in "/etc/ca-certificates.conf". After all that openssl still cannot verify the self-signed server certificate. |
| 21:27.19 | nkuttler | Orcs53: can you paste the openssl command you used and the output? |
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| 21:33.14 | Orcs53 | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/41e589dc/ |
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| 21:43.01 | ws2k3 | i have a process that is called bash its consuming 100 % cpu. is it possible to see which script this is? or which command? ps aux only shows bash |
| 21:44.41 | nvz | ws2k3: if it were a script it should probably say because it'd have been part of the cmdline.. |
| 21:44.56 | nvz | ws2k3: what is the pid? |
| 21:45.09 | ws2k3 | nvz: 4692 |
| 21:45.47 | nvz | then have a look in /proc/4692 |
| 21:45.59 | mutante | ws2k3: strace -p 4692 maybe |
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| 21:47.25 | nvz | ws2k3: ls -l /proc/4692/fd |
| 21:47.35 | nvz | cat /proc/4962/cmdline |
| 21:47.38 | nvz | etc.. |
| 21:48.14 | ws2k3 | nvz:it shows -bash |
| 21:48.51 | nvz | the fd/ should typically have 0,1,2,255 pointing to the controlling term |
| 21:49.18 | ws2k3 | yeah i see 0 1 2 255 |
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| 21:51.59 | ws2k3 | nvz: what can i do with that information? |
| 21:52.39 | nvz | idk how many ways can you possibly identify a bash process.. if you can't tell what it is by its controlling term or its cmdline.. or what files it has open.. idk what else to tell ya |
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| 21:53.31 | mutante | ws2k3: kill it and see who complains (tm) |
| 21:53.39 | nvz | everything there is to be known about that process is in that directory there |
| 21:54.10 | EdePopede | thread view in htop is also handy. eliminate (as in sherlock, not as in 007) the other known entries until you know which one is the one |
| 21:55.08 | mutante | ws2k3: echo "users, behave! stop using 100% CPU!!!" | wall & sleep 5 & kill 4962 |
| 21:56.22 | EdePopede | weird. i have a SCREEN -R there where i should see plain bash Oo |
| 21:56.24 | ws2k3 | nvz: no i mean i see indeed the 0 1 2 255 |
| 21:56.51 | ws2k3 | wierd the bash process it not shows in htop |
| 21:57.09 | EdePopede | look for the PID (search by just typing it) |
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| 21:58.25 | EdePopede | in my case /proc/$PID/exec points to bash and cmdlines also says bash. sometimes htop is a bit of a joker |
| 22:00.30 | nvz | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:01.18 | EdePopede | or 'e' for the environment |
| 22:01.48 | nvz | nobody /cares/ about the _environment_ :P |
| 22:02.11 | nvz | global warming is fake news :D |
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| 22:02.33 | EdePopede | yes, and covid is just a little flu :P |
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| 22:06.26 | EdePopede | actually i want to be able to do different things depending on $WINDOW while in screen |
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| 22:12.50 | NCS_One | hi |
| 22:13.22 | DracoSentien | NCS_One: Greetings Earthling |
| 22:13.43 | NCS_One | how can I check a package version on the latest Debian release? I haven't updated it yet |
| 22:14.24 | DracoSentien | man dpkg or man apt maybe ? |
| 22:14.38 | DracoSentien | NCS_One: man page is good for you |
| 22:15.22 | NCS_One | DracoSentien: without updating the apt know the packages version of the new release? |
| 22:15.22 | DracoSentien | NCS_One: I guess man grep too maybe |
| 22:16.31 | DracoSentien | NCS_One: I dunno I run openbsd because linux is for mentally retarded bitches I just came here to troll |
| 22:16.34 | DracoSentien | As an operating system GNU/Linux has become a mess because of the fragmented nature of the project, the bloatware in the kernel, and because of the jerking around by commercial interests. |
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| 22:17.16 | NCS_One | I used to use openbsd |
| 22:17.25 | NCS_One | a long time ago |
| 22:19.03 | NCS_One | with fvwm |
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| 22:23.12 | snooky | hi all |
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| 22:34.19 | LtL | DracoSentinel copied that from this article word for word. https://www.unixsheikh.com/articles/why-you-should-migrate-everything-from-linux-to-bsd.html |
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| 23:20.55 | nvz | LtL: what I could stand to read of that seemed as idiotic as I had expected |
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| 23:47.37 | snooky | jh |
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