| 00:00.00 | deku | @nvz Thank you for the clarification. That makes lots of sense now. That was driving me crazy today when I was trying to figure out which one I should download. |
| 00:00.11 | nvz | but I'm willing to bet my general understanding of it is fairly accurate.. as the docs describe it as being similar to an lxc container |
| 00:00.38 | deku | In the software store it's saying the new version is still alpha... I'm a dummy. lol |
| 00:01.11 | nvz | deku: yes well do us all a favor and don't use social media conventions in IRC, and perhaps consider not using social media :P we don't use @ to highlight people on IRC it predates usertags |
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| 00:02.00 | nvz | had you actually needed to get my attention and I wasn't looking, that would /not/ have done it |
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| 00:02.49 | deku | nvz: Sorry, I'm still pretty new with IRC I still don't know a lot about this. |
| 00:03.21 | nvz | yes well as I understand all sorts of modern things have adopted these conventions.. and all of which I personally loathe.. which is why I'm _here_ |
| 00:03.26 | jo3 | nvz: I see, thanks. Im heading there |
| 00:03.28 | deku | definitely slowly moving away from social media in general. Besides mastodon. |
| 00:03.41 | nvz | deku: you been using that? how do you like it? |
| 00:04.21 | nvz | deku: I looked into many federated social networks and that one seemed like the most likely facebook replacement for most people as it seemed to have apps for mobile and stuff and worked much the same |
| 00:06.15 | deku | nvz: I feel you on that. Most modern social media is just pretty toxic these days in the current enviroment. Mastodon is pretty neat, laid back more personal compared to twitter. In twitter you're just yelling out in the ether, while in Mastodon people actually sometimes respond and there's a whole variety of subjects and servers you can talk about different things on, almost like a IRC but with a fancy GUI in a way. |
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| 00:07.18 | nvz | deku: yeah I dont think I'm for it anytime soon but I been suggesting it to people who are already on social media.. trying to see if I could maybe get your average person to move away from the corporate pseudosocial networking |
| 00:08.49 | b30wulf | whats with that buggy update yesterday of evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-common |
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| 00:09.12 | b30wulf | or associated packages |
| 00:09.23 | deku | nvz: Oh for sure, especially with all the social hacking going going on those platforms being manipulated by algorithms and whatnot creating these weird unorganic echochambers and warzones of sorts. Mastodon feels more like Myspace before Facebook took over. |
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| 00:13.02 | nvz | b30wulf: can you be less specific :D |
| 00:13.45 | nvz | b30wulf: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/evolution-data-server shows TWO days ago it was embargoed, and TODAY it was accepted into proposed updates |
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| 00:15.14 | b30wulf | GMT? |
| 00:15.37 | b30wulf | anyho |
| 00:15.59 | b30wulf | something(s) in it/associated packages (evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-common gir1.2-javascriptcoregtk-4.0 gir1.2-webkit2-4.0 libcamel-1.2-62 libebackend-1.2-10 libebook-1.2-19 libebook-contacts-1.2-2 libecal-1.2-19 libedata-book-1.2-25 libedata-cal-1.2-29 libedataserver-1.2-23 libedataserverui-1.2-2 libjavascriptcoregtk-4.0-18 libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37) sucks |
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| 00:22.47 | nvz | ah, sucks.. why didn't you say so :P |
| 00:23.57 | nvz | might wanna file a bug report on that then.. like 8 packages.. something sucks.. I'm sure that'll be real helpful to the maintainer and upstream developers |
| 00:24.48 | annadane | akshually it's 13 |
| 00:24.56 | annadane | runs |
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| 00:30.53 | ryouma | is mastodon in bitlbee? |
| 00:33.13 | nvz | annadane: you missing toes or something? |
| 00:34.36 | b30wulf | nvz: yeah i just mentioned it in case someone might be forthcoming with them having been aware of the problem already |
| 00:34.57 | nvz | annadane: echo "evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-common gir1.2-javascriptcoregtk-4.0 gir1.2-webkit2-4.0 libcamel-1.2-62 libebackend-1.2-10 libebook-1.2-19 libebook-contacts-1.2-2 libecal-1.2-19 libedata-book-1.2-25 libedata-cal-1.2-29 libedataserver-1.2-23 libedataserverui-1.2-2 libjavascriptcoregtk-4.0-18 libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37" | tr " " "\n" | wc -l |
| 00:36.44 | nvz | b30wulf: I figured as much.. but you're going way out on a limb that someone 1) uses evolution 2) updated recently 3) shares your opinion that it "sucks" and 4) knows something more about it than you do |
| 00:37.08 | nvz | without any detailed information, you are very unlikely to get more than I'd given you, the tracker page.. |
| 00:37.42 | b30wulf | i dont use evolution |
| 00:37.48 | nvz | heh |
| 00:38.52 | b30wulf | it is required by gnome-shell libedata-cal-1.2-29 libecal-1.2-19 evolution-data-server-tests syncevolution-libs-gnome modem-manager-gui gnome-core gnome-todo gnome-online-accounts gnome-phone-manager gnome-panel libecal-1.2-19 gnome-calendar glabels libfolks-eds25 evolution-rss evolution-rss libedata-cal-1.2-29 evolution evolution-data-server-tests evolution bijiben |
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| 00:39.51 | b30wulf | its ok i know more about it than u |
| 00:39.57 | b30wulf | u can stop addressing me |
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| 01:22.09 | maxtim | do programs like dd utilize multi-cores/threads? I'm wondering if there is a benefit to using a more powerful machine for things like disk cloning, or is the bottleneck purely going to be the disk IO speed. (sorry if this is the wrong channel for a discussion like this) |
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| 01:26.39 | sney | maxtim: it's all i/o. |
| 01:27.08 | sney | so a newer sata or usb standard etc might get you some benefit but nothing from cpu speed really |
| 01:27.35 | maxtim | That's what I suspected. Especially with older mechanical hdds |
| 01:28.26 | maxtim | so using a rasp pi with raspbian installed to do cloning tasks would probably make sense |
| 01:29.00 | sney | pis are notoriously i/o bottlenecked except maybe the newest models |
| 01:29.01 | RoyK | it doesn't matter if you have 30 cores if the I/O is slow ;) |
| 01:29.25 | sney | the cheap low power disk cloning option is a dedicated 2-bay disk copier. I've never seen anything do it faster. |
| 01:29.40 | maxtim | probably not with important tasks,though. I've had a lot of issues with stability despite my best efforts |
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| 01:30.19 | maxtim | well look at us with our fancy awesome machines RoyK lol |
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| 01:30.58 | maxtim | believe me, I have been eyeing a nicer machine for a long time, even 12-cores would make me happy right now |
| 01:31.09 | sney | like this thing: https://www.startech.com/ca/HDD/Duplicators/standalone-duplicator-dock~SDOCK2U313R |
| 01:31.46 | maxtim | oh that's pretty cool |
| 01:31.50 | RoyK | pi4 has usb3, though |
| 01:33.00 | RoyK | sney: I've used something like that, a four port - used it to delete disks - works, but somewhat slow. This one may be faster, though |
| 01:33.39 | maxtim | yeah, the pi4 is pretty good. I have a pi3b+ and it's just below acceptable for most things i want to do with it. Pretty neat little device, though |
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| 01:34.41 | RoyK | only issue with the pi4 is heat - it really should have been shipped with a heatsink or even a fan. it works well without either under low load, though |
| 01:36.04 | maxtim | i think my latte panda has the same issue |
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| 01:36.30 | maxtim | with heat. I really like that device, though. expensive compared to the pi |
| 01:36.33 | RoyK | dunno - never tried those |
| 01:36.48 | maxtim | it's finicky to get windows off |
| 01:37.44 | maxtim | which is a terrible idea, btw. windows on a single board like that. stupid os crashed every time you did a safe restart |
| 01:38.09 | sney | I deployed some odroid c2s as digital signage a couple years ago. nice upgrade compared to a pi(at the time) without spending much more. embedded machines are pretty single-purpose though, anything that was going to be "under load" I would have gone x86 |
| 01:38.53 | maxtim | agreed in that these devices are good for single tasks. |
| 01:39.31 | maxtim | that panda is just my torrent server attached to network storage. anything more and it crashes |
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| 03:38.12 | Guest66850 | I made a bash script but seem unable to chmod a+x on it, why might that be |
| 03:39.10 | brachamh | who's the owner of the script? you, or root? |
| 03:39.45 | Guest66850 | user is the owner |
| 03:40.45 | Guest66850 | i'm thinking its because its running on a locked usb drive |
| 03:40.50 | brachamh | are you getting an error? |
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| 03:42.31 | Guest66850 | ya that was it :) |
| 03:43.01 | brachamh | the locked usb drive |
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| 03:57.12 | goodpants | hi i love debian you guys rock! |
| 03:58.37 | goodpants | i have been searching for a centralized logging solution and I'm overwhelmed by the options to use collectd, fluentd, greylog, ELK etc. and fuse it all together. What are you using and what do you recommend to look into? |
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| 04:10.54 | strive | I hear rsyslog is a thing for centralized logging. |
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| 04:11.41 | zxwayland | hey, i accidentally used root to curl download an image. Where is the path of my download file? I can't find it |
| 04:12.12 | strive | Not in /root? |
| 04:12.39 | zxwayland | I am not sure which file it is in |
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| 04:13.16 | strive | If you were the root user then the file should be in /root |
| 04:13.34 | strive | Unless.... |
| 04:13.46 | strive | What directory were you in when you ran curl? |
| 04:13.53 | zxwayland | I don't see it anywhere in my /root |
| 04:15.10 | goodpants | curl $url -o $outputfile |
| 04:15.27 | goodpants | if you didnt give -o option it wont be saved on disk |
| 04:15.44 | strive | Doh. Or that :) |
| 04:16.13 | zxwayland | oh wait |
| 04:16.24 | zxwayland | how do i go back a directory in the terminal? |
| 04:16.36 | strive | Type: cd .. |
| 04:17.10 | goodpants | zxwayland https://dev.to/awwsmm/101-bash-commands-and-tips-for-beginners-to-experts-30je#the-basics |
| 04:18.47 | zxwayland | root@debian:~/android-udev-rules# |
| 04:18.58 | zxwayland | i am not sure how to access this on Dolphin |
| 04:19.35 | goodpants | what are you trying to do and where? |
| 04:19.56 | zxwayland | trying to retrieve my image in that folder |
| 04:20.43 | goodpants | please go to #android |
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| 04:21.58 | zxwayland | great |
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| 06:37.10 | kingsley | Do you happen to know of a command line utility that reports how much memory was used by running the program named in its parameter $1? |
| 06:37.26 | kingsley | For example, it might look something like... |
| 06:37.41 | kingsley | $ how_much_memory_was_used_by "date' |
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| 06:47.23 | ryouma | great idea for a program, idk the answer |
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| 06:51.57 | themill | kingsley: /usr/bin/time -v (this is time(1), not the bash builtin) |
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| 06:54.18 | kingsley | themill: I said it before. I'll say it again! Your suggestion worked. Thanks! |
| 06:54.37 | themill | :D |
| 06:54.46 | themill | /usr/bin/time -f'%M' (to just get the max RSS) |
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| 07:05.59 | ryouma | rss is the measure you want? is that program and shared libraries and cache and buffers? |
| 07:06.13 | ryouma | are the shared libraries prorated? |
| 07:06.46 | themill | that depends⢠|
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| 07:08.16 | ryouma | kthx |
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| 07:55.08 | Regor | i am trying to compile st terminal (luke smith's build) i am getting error ."Package harfbuzz was not found in the pkg-config search path" how to fix this ? what package do i need now ? |
| 07:55.23 | Regor | https://paste.debian.net/1156900/ |
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| 07:59.32 | Regor | "libharfbuzz-bin" package found in apt search ..so trying it now |
| 08:00.05 | allizom | Regor: I know nothing about what you're building, but you'd presumably take note of its build dependencies and install the needed -dev packages |
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| 08:03.49 | Regor | https://github.com/LukeSmithxyz/st |
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| 09:41.25 | ozfalcon | I had a power failure and on reboot of the file server the external hard drive was corrupted. I'm running fsck on the unmounted drive - But it appears to have hung. Should I just let it go or interrupt the fsck process? |
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| 09:55.55 | moldy | ozfalcon: which options did you start fsck with? |
| 09:58.32 | ozfalcon | sudo fsck /dev/sdb1 |
| 09:59.41 | ratrace | ozfalcon: can you dmesg -Tw in another terminal to see if it's spilling out IO errors? |
| 10:02.42 | moldy | ozfalcon: since you didn't specify -n, i think fsck may write. it's probably still ok to interrupt it though. |
| 10:03.14 | ozfalcon | A lot of errors are showing, But not IO errors. |
| 10:03.50 | ratrace | pastebin an example? |
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| 10:06.14 | ozfalcon | https://pastebin.com/WWAzTF4m |
| 10:08.52 | ratrace | ozfalcon: that's the end of dmesg output? there was no EXT4-fs error entries since "Sat Jul 18 18:12:33 2020"? |
| 10:08.55 | ozfalcon | fsck.exe seems to still be running using 98% cpu. |
| 10:09.10 | ratrace | fsck.exe o.O ? |
| 10:09.33 | ozfalcon | fsxk.ext4 |
| 10:09.38 | ozfalcon | damn keyboard |
| 10:09.43 | ozfalcon | (or fingers) |
| 10:09.49 | ratrace | (or WSL) |
| 10:10.29 | ozfalcon | I haven't used and exe file for about 20 years ;) |
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| 10:11.35 | ratrace | anyway, it's still hanging, half an hour after that last EXT4-fs error entry? |
| 10:11.50 | ozfalcon | no, Thats it. |
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| 10:12.09 | ratrace | so fsck.ext4 returned? |
| 10:12.14 | ozfalcon | no |
| 10:12.21 | ozfalcon | It's stuck. |
| 10:12.24 | ratrace | so it's a "yes, it's still hanging" |
| 10:12.55 | ratrace | vmstat, iostat or iotop showing disc read/write activity? |
| 10:14.59 | yaslam | hi |
| 10:15.48 | ozfalcon | I only seem to have vmstat installed. |
| 10:16.17 | ratrace | ozfalcon: so if you run `vmstat 1` do you see nonzero numbers in "bi" and "bo" columns? |
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| 10:16.49 | ratrace | though ideally you'd install iotop and confirm that fsck.ext4's IO rate |
| 10:17.19 | ozfalcon | bi and io are both displaying 0 |
| 10:17.32 | ratrace | the plot thickens |
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| 10:17.44 | ozfalcon | bi and bo |
| 10:18.04 | ozfalcon | ah bo just displayed 48 |
| 10:18.21 | ratrace | so if you leave it (vmstat) running for a minute or so, it's all zeros? maybe occasional nonzero as the system otherwise touches the disks, but no big nubmers like, hundreds or thousands on each line? |
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| 10:18.36 | ozfalcon | correct |
| 10:19.14 | ozfalcon | So fsck is obviously not doing anything. |
| 10:19.31 | ratrace | it's hung _somewhere_ ... weird situation. I'd interrupt it. |
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| 10:20.02 | ratrace | and then I'd run again with -V and -N |
| 10:20.09 | ratrace | (fsck that is) |
| 10:20.10 | ozfalcon | ctrl-c fails to interrupt it. I'll have to try and kill it. |
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| 10:20.43 | yaslam | hi |
| 10:20.44 | ratrace | killnine that... fscker :) |
| 10:21.46 | ratrace | ozfalcon: btw, don't forget that fs is currently remounted readonly |
| 10:23.07 | ozfalcon | I think those errors were before I unmounted it and run fsck. Checking now it's still unmounted. |
| 10:23.24 | ozfalcon | It's still unmounted. |
| 10:24.26 | ozfalcon | I'll try running fsck.ext4 again. |
| 10:24.52 | ratrace | ozfalcon: with -V and -N |
| 10:24.53 | ozfalcon | Shouldn't be any difference running fsck vs fsck.ext4 should there? |
| 10:25.09 | ratrace | no, fsck.ext4 is run implicitly if that's an ext4 |
| 10:25.20 | jim | hi... I have a intel wireless chipset, pciid [8086:34f0], and I can't seem to find how to support it... any help on this device? |
| 10:25.30 | rudi_s | Does `dmesg` say anything? Hanging fsck looks like a problem with the disk |
| 10:25.42 | ratrace | we're past that now |
| 10:25.43 | rudi_s | (If it's really doing nothing, strace -p $pid helps there.) |
| 10:26.01 | quadrathoch2 | jim, did you install the firmware? |
| 10:26.12 | jim | maybe not |
| 10:26.19 | jim | what's the package name? |
| 10:26.48 | ozfalcon | -V (Version info) or do you mean -v (Verbose) |
| 10:27.20 | quadrathoch2 | jim firmware-iwlwifi |
| 10:28.08 | ozfalcon | and -n (non-interactive readonly mode)? |
| 10:28.09 | ratrace | ozfalcon: verbose, but isn't that -V (capital V)? |
| 10:28.20 | jim | let me try that... meanwhile, try: /msg judd pciid [8086:34f0] |
| 10:28.53 | ozfalcon | verbose is small v. version is capital |
| 10:28.57 | ratrace | oh, fsck.ext4 has lowercase options.... ho kay.... |
| 10:30.34 | ozfalcon | vmstat is chugging numbers on the bi |
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| 10:31.08 | ratrace | right, it's reading from disk |
| 10:31.24 | jim | ok, installed that... now what? as you can see, judd doesn't know which module it is |
| 10:31.48 | ozfalcon | Now it's stopped.... And fsck says: Pass 1B: Rescanning for multiply-claimed blocks |
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| 10:32.42 | quadrathoch2 | jim I guess judd just has outdated information :/ |
| 10:33.44 | jim | I'm running buster with defailt 4.19.0-9 kernel... |
| 10:33.56 | ozfalcon | it's going again. |
| 10:34.00 | jim | do you think I need a later kernel? |
| 10:34.49 | ratrace | ozfalcon: well you don't have to narrate what it does :) wait for it to finish, or see if it reaches the same state: cpu bound but no IO. at that point you could strace it like rudi_s suggested, to see which syscalls it's hanging around |
| 10:36.15 | ratrace | if it doesn't, you could re-run without -n, and with -y or -p optionally; test your backups first |
| 10:36.36 | quadrathoch2 | jim could you post the full name of the wifi? |
| 10:37.17 | ozfalcon | Perhaps it didn't hang in the first place and was just really slow. (It's not the fastest machine). |
| 10:37.56 | ratrace | ozfalcon: fsck is primarily io-bound, there's nothing much for it to calculate in cpu without IO |
| 10:39.30 | jim | isn't it this: |
| 10:40.11 | jim | ,pciid [8086:34f0] |
| 10:40.12 | judd | [8086:34f0] is 'Killer Wi-Fi 6 AX1650i 160MHz Wireless Network Adapter (201NGW)' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'ata-generic' in stretch. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=8086:34f0 |
| 10:40.13 | ozfalcon | Seems to be upto the same file. IO is zero. But I'll just let it go. |
| 10:42.54 | jim | quadrathoch2, see ^^ from judd |
| 10:43.08 | jim | other than that, that's all I know |
| 10:43.17 | quadrathoch2 | jim, I guess you should be able to update-initramfs and reboot. |
| 10:43.38 | jim | ok |
| 10:44.14 | quadrathoch2 | if it does not work, we need to use the backports kernel and firmware |
| 10:44.17 | quadrathoch2 | jim ^ |
| 10:45.11 | jim | ok, did the update-initramfs, rebooting |
| 10:45.35 | ozfalcon | strace doesn't seem to show anything...... strace: Process 1274 attached |
| 10:46.49 | jim | quadrathoch2, nope, didn't work |
| 10:47.20 | jim | (the test: ls /sys/class/net) |
| 10:47.45 | jim | just lo and enp1s0 |
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| 10:48.15 | quadrathoch2 | is the intel wifi driver loaded? lsmod |
| 10:48.20 | ratrace | ozfalcon: try with -f too |
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| 10:51.35 | jim | I think I just loaded it... let's see |
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| 10:52.06 | ratrace | ozfalcon: -f for strace I mean.... sorry :) |
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| 10:52.23 | jim | ls /sys/class/net shows no new interfaces |
| 10:53.27 | ozfalcon | Yes that what i thought you meant. |
| 10:53.29 | jim | still on 4.19 |
| 10:54.31 | quadrathoch2 | jim then I would test out the bpo kernel + firmware as killer says it needs kernel 5.3+ |
| 10:54.43 | ozfalcon | Still seems to have hung at the same file. Even though CPU is as 98% io is zero |
| 10:55.20 | jim | quadrathoch2, where do you see that? link? |
| 10:55.25 | ozfalcon | I might have to shutdown the server and attach the drive to this machine. |
| 10:55.40 | jim | and, installing backport kernel now |
| 10:56.13 | ratrace | ozfalcon: wait, strace -f -p <pid> produces no output? for the pidof fsck.ext4 ? |
| 10:56.27 | ozfalcon | correct |
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| 10:57.01 | ozfalcon | though I ran strace at the point fsck had already stalled. |
| 10:57.37 | ratrace | that's highly unusual..... is the process in D state perhaps? see with ps -axuf | grep fsck |
| 10:57.58 | quadrathoch2 | Jim https://support.killernetworking.com/knowledge-base/killer-ax1650-in-debian-ubuntu-16-04/ |
| 10:59.37 | ozfalcon | ratrace, root 1274 95.8 13.0 135576 133308 pts/0 R+ 20:29 27:21 | \_ fsck.ext4 -v -n /dev/sdb1 |
| 10:59.49 | jim | ok, thanks, really appreciate the help... enabling backports... |
| 11:01.13 | ratrace | ozfalcon: I suppose it hung in some kernel process that won't return to userland so no new syscalls are made for strace to catch.... dunno.... weird like hell. |
| 11:03.05 | ozfalcon | Yeah, I think I'll shutdown the server and attach the drive to this machine. |
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| 11:04.26 | ozfalcon | The server is pretty old as in it's running Jessie. |
| 11:04.36 | quadrathoch2 | Jim it could be that we would need to get the fo |
| 11:04.59 | quadrathoch2 | firmware from somewhere else as Debian has kinda old one |
| 11:04.59 | jim | quadrathoch2, the which? |
| 11:05.08 | jim | oh ok |
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| 11:06.39 | quadrathoch2 | Typing on a tablet right now, so sometimes I fatfinger stuff especially the enter key :/ |
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| 11:07.36 | jim | yeah, it's probably hard not feeling the actual keys |
| 11:08.10 | jim | so there are some 5.4s and some 5.6es |
| 11:09.05 | quadrathoch2 | Jim just install Linux-image-amd64 and firmware-iwlwifi so it pulls the newest always |
| 11:09.38 | jim | and I would need to say -t backports? |
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| 11:09.59 | quadrathoch2 | Yes jim |
| 11:10.07 | quadrathoch2 | Ahh sorry |
| 11:10.27 | quadrathoch2 | -t buster-backborts |
| 11:11.01 | jim | ok, sec |
| 11:13.10 | ozfalcon | Actually it's running Debian stretch. Anyway I have killed fsck and moving the drive to this machine to check/fix |
| 11:13.32 | jim | patpats his handy dandy sources.list.m4 :) |
| 11:16.52 | ratrace | m4?! you monster! |
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| 11:18.43 | jim | I think the card is working now! iwlist scan (with interface up) produces oodles and oodles of output |
| 11:19.58 | jim | ratrace, yeah, I learned a little of m4 (enough to do the job, pretty easy) and I got a good result |
| 11:20.04 | quadrathoch2 | Jim nice :) |
| 11:21.19 | jim | (and, forgot to mention, /sys/class/net has a third directory :) |
| 11:22.21 | nvz | just cause it scans doesnt mean it works |
| 11:23.37 | jim | nvz, ok, well I'll install the rest of the system, and put nm on there, and then see |
| 11:25.23 | jim | installing kde (having an apt-cacher-ng on a gigabit eth is so nice :) |
| 11:25.43 | nvz | #933967 |
| 11:25.44 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/933967 in systemd (closed, moreinfo): «Predictable interface names results in forced deauth of certain usb wifi adapters»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-08-05; last modified: 2019-12-07. |
| 11:26.01 | nvz | if you have further issues, I'd look into that bug :P |
| 11:26.11 | jim | ok |
| 11:26.45 | nvz | its one case where they'll scan and appear to work but wont actually conect unless you disable predictable ifnames |
| 11:27.47 | nvz | I never followed through with running it down cause I couldnt get if renaming to work and then lost track of an adapter that was effected |
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| 11:28.49 | jim | thanks a lot for the info... I have the page open, I'll check that stuff out |
| 11:33.04 | ozfalcon | ratrace, Interesting. Did the same thing when attached to my machine. But after about 5min it continued on. Now it's stalled on the next file. I think it's just taking a long time to process. |
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| 11:39.11 | ozfalcon | Finally it finished fsck! |
| 11:39.30 | ozfalcon | device is now clean |
| 11:39.50 | ozfalcon | Doing a forced check just to be sure. |
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| 12:15.44 | ratrace | ozfalcon: but strace should show output, and/or dmesg should show io errors that cause command timeout or similar. |
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| 12:28.41 | ozfalcon | ratrace, I don't think it did timeout. It was just running & processing. I should have run strace when I moved it to this machine. |
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| 12:30.49 | ozfalcon | ratrace, I do have another drive I could test it on.... But it's busy re-copying the files that were screwed up (5 hrs to copy over the (slow) 100Mbit network). |
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| 13:05.06 | no_gravity | Hello! I have a strange boot problem. The system hangs at "started light manager" or similar. But when I hit "CTRL+ALT+F1" and run "startx" I go straight to Gnome and all seems fine. Any ideas how to go about this? |
| 13:06.04 | genr8_ | systemd-analyze --blame |
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| 13:06.21 | genr8_ | figure out which unit is the fail and disable it |
| 13:06.42 | no_gravity | genr8_: systemd-analyze: unrecognized option '--blame' |
| 13:06.57 | genr8_ | maybe its just blame with no dashes. i forgot |
| 13:07.18 | no_gravity | That outputs something, yes. |
| 13:07.31 | genr8_ | should give you a printout of the times it took to load |
| 13:08.02 | no_gravity | The longest is this one: 5.891s NetworkManager-wait-online.service |
| 13:08.34 | genr8_ | thats about normal though. for the network |
| 13:08.55 | genr8_ | i think its something else then |
| 13:09.04 | no_gravity | Hmm... |
| 13:09.18 | ratrace | no_gravity: you mean "started Light Display Manager"? LightDM? |
| 13:09.40 | genr8_ | ah lol |
| 13:09.43 | no_gravity | ratrace: That could be. |
| 13:09.52 | ratrace | could be wrong, but I don't think you can use lightdm with gnome, you need gdm |
| 13:10.12 | no_gravity | The machine has been running for ages and I dont think I updated anythin recently. |
| 13:10.36 | genr8_ | what about changing monitor ports |
| 13:10.37 | ratrace | no_gravity: can you pastebin the output of journalctl -u lightdm.service ? |
| 13:11.41 | no_gravity | ratrace: My momma told me to nether pastebin system internals to the wild wild web. |
| 13:12.05 | ratrace | ask momma how're you gonna ask folks to troublshoot problems for you, then :) |
| 13:12.20 | ratrace | maybe she's got sum of 'em crystal balls for us to peek into yer troubles. |
| 13:12.51 | no_gravity | Another interesting effect is that my fn key does not work anymore. |
| 13:13.05 | ratrace | pastebi..... ah. well, good luck :) |
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| 13:13.56 | no_gravity | Oh, it does work. I can still switch the keyboard light on. But I cannot change the display brightness anymore. |
| 13:14.10 | genr8_ | so its a laptop |
| 13:14.44 | no_gravity | Yes |
| 13:15.24 | genr8_ | you know theres a function button to switch display output between internal and external? Maybe the laptop is outputting to the external |
| 13:15.25 | ratrace | greycat would've loved this |
| 13:15.25 | no_gravity | At first I thought the hardware is dead. Because I took it on a pretty wild scooter ride today. |
| 13:15.54 | no_gravity | genr8_: Maybe ... I could try that on next boot. |
| 13:16.03 | ratrace | maybe you accidentally Fn-<something> and changed display output, genr8_ had a clue there |
| 13:16.57 | no_gravity | Well, right now I am using it with the internal display. |
| 13:17.06 | no_gravity | After manually doing "startx" it kinda works now. |
| 13:17.23 | genr8_ | check your processes. are there two X's ? |
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| 13:17.49 | ratrace | probably not, because there's one socket |
| 13:18.05 | genr8_ | you can see the TTY its on |
| 13:18.06 | no_gravity | genr8_: Via psaux? |
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| 13:18.27 | genr8_ | yes. ps aux | grep tty and read whats on tty1 or tty7 |
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| 13:18.55 | genr8_ | or 8 actually |
| 13:19.37 | no_gravity | genr8_: There is a ton of stuff on tty1 |
| 13:20.04 | ratrace | or save us all time and trouble and pastebin the damned logs. lightdm.service and maybe even Xorg.0.log |
| 13:20.12 | genr8_ | i think thats cause youve manually ran startx from tty1 |
| 13:20.20 | no_gravity | Maybe |
| 13:20.21 | genr8_ | but whats on 7 |
| 13:20.28 | no_gravity | Nothing |
| 13:20.32 | ratrace | what's on second, who's on first. |
| 13:20.35 | genr8_ | :) |
| 13:20.51 | no_gravity | Only tty in ps aux is tty1 |
| 13:21.05 | ratrace | ps axu | grep -i xorg |
| 13:21.32 | no_gravity | ratrace: tty1 |
| 13:21.47 | genr8_ | i guess its fine then. you're just operating on TTY1 now. which is cause you did Ctrl+Alt+F1 and ran startx from it. Xorg should be running with lightdm on tty7 |
| 13:22.11 | genr8_ | if its not, lightdm or Xorg got messed up somehow |
| 13:22.20 | ratrace | there aren't two xorgs running here. there's only one (lockable) socket |
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| 13:23.33 | ratrace | so.... back to 10 minutes ago..... ligthdm logs. Xorg.0.log too. (from /var/log, assuming that's the "main" xorg log, your unprivileged startx is probably logging into ~/.local/) |
| 13:24.11 | genr8_ | ratrace, its possible for two Xorgs to be running. |
| 13:24.22 | ratrace | I know, but one must specify different sockets |
| 13:24.28 | ratrace | ie. can't accidentally via `startx` |
| 13:24.32 | genr8_ | nope |
| 13:24.42 | genr8_ | ill pastebin mine after just trying it |
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| 13:25.09 | genr8_ | https://pastebin.com/6km9Xe1H |
| 13:25.31 | genr8_ | the tty7 runs on startup with lightdm normally. the tty1 i ran from ... TTY1. with startx manually. |
| 13:25.35 | ratrace | genr8_: what's in /tmp/.X11-unix/ ? |
| 13:26.06 | genr8_ | X0 X1 |
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| 13:26.22 | ratrace | ah wait.... :1 specified on command line |
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| 13:26.52 | ratrace | right, so like I said, sockets specified explicitly. neway... back to this problem. |
| 13:26.59 | genr8_ | i just ran startx though |
| 13:27.03 | genr8_ | it handled that internally |
| 13:27.09 | ratrace | that's possible |
| 13:27.18 | genr8_ | anyway he said he didnt have two |
| 13:27.22 | ratrace | wasn't like that before |
| 13:28.39 | genr8_ | so for whatever reason his lightdm one didnt work but the startx one did... |
| 13:28.47 | no_gravity | By the way, I added "nomodeset" to the bootup thing in grub. |
| 13:28.54 | no_gravity | That didnt get the machine to boot though. |
| 13:29.09 | ratrace | genr8_: we'll never know without them logs |
| 13:29.11 | no_gravity | So i hit CTRL+ALT+F1 and ran startx |
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| 13:29.36 | ratrace | so I'm gonna stop wasting time, this was fun so far tho. Logs or good luck. |
| 13:29.48 | no_gravity | Thanks |
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| 13:31.32 | genr8_ | Theres a chance something did actually upgrade, if you had UnattendedUpgrades still on |
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| 13:33.11 | no_gravity | genr8_: I don't. But it could be I upgraded manually in the morning and forgot about it. |
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| 13:35.24 | genr8_ | well still, idk how that messed it up. lightdm is pretty resilient. theres not even anything useful in the config file by default |
| 13:36.32 | no_gravity | Im curious if it will happen again on next boot. |
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| 13:39.21 | no_gravity | Strange, there is also a directory on my Desktop missing. |
| 13:39.39 | no_gravity | How on earth can that be. |
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| 13:40.22 | genr8_ | idk but it could be a clue |
| 13:40.34 | no_gravity | Its a dir I created long ago. |
| 13:40.38 | no_gravity | And use regularely. |
| 13:41.16 | no_gravity | Maybe the desktop *was* started but not displayed. And me frantically hitting keys deleted it. |
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| 13:41.49 | genr8_ | possible. |
| 13:41.57 | genr8_ | check the filesystem |
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| 13:46.28 | genr8_ | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:39.03 | S3xyL1nux | debian stand for a developer representation that occurring twice a year |
| 14:39.20 | S3xyL1nux | i just made this up , is it right |
| 14:40.11 | S3xyL1nux | or i am just a silly bastard |
| 14:40.34 | Eryn_1983_FL | hey guys |
| 14:40.51 | Eryn_1983_FL | so im wanting to diversify the servers in my resolv.conf and for my gw |
| 14:40.56 | Eryn_1983_FL | dns^ |
| 14:41.10 | Eryn_1983_FL | are there any recommendations? |
| 14:45.37 | pasiz | Eryn_1983_FL: could you explain what you mean diversify servers and gw on resolv.conf? |
| 14:46.08 | pasiz | do you have dns on your network? |
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| 14:49.33 | ratrace | Eryn_1983_FL: 1) local, 2) hosting provider's, 3) google, 4) there is no 4th as glibc can only parse 3 |
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| 15:14.28 | brutser | i have a ryzen 2400g system with 16G ram, i wonder, do I need to set a SWAP partition and if so, what would be the desired size? i don't need hibernation or sleep functionality |
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| 15:15.30 | PaulePanter | Hi. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtbase-opensource-src/+bug/1887959/comments/6 claims that apt cannot figure out an upgrade path, is by design. |
| 15:16.13 | PaulePanter | Replaces: libqtcore4 (<< 4:4.8.7+dfsg-20~) |
| 15:16.21 | PaulePanter | Same for Breaks. |
| 15:16.28 | PaulePanter | That surprised me, that itâs not possible. |
| 15:16.35 | PaulePanter | brutser: Depends on what you want to do. |
| 15:17.02 | PaulePanter | If itâs unlikely, that you ever need more than 16 GB physical RAM, I wouldnât set up a swap partition. |
| 15:17.26 | PaulePanter | brutser: Otherwise, swap might be a good idea. https://chrisdown.name/2018/01/02/in-defence-of-swap.html |
| 15:17.32 | LtL | brutser: the old school rule for swap is 'physical memory x 1.5 = swap size' |
| 15:17.57 | PaulePanter | brutser: If you want to know more about swap, the article is worth your time. |
| 15:18.21 | PaulePanter | brutser: I have not used swap on *desktop* systems for ages, as RAM was more than plenty for my use cases. |
| 15:19.25 | LtL | PaulePanter: same here, not needed for most cases |
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| 15:26.22 | brutser | PaulePanter: i don't think i used swap before, but i was doing a re-installation and then wondered, do i need a swap partition or not, i always do manual partitioning, so yea |
| 15:26.34 | brutser | the system is a desktop system mainly doing qemu-kvm |
| 15:26.41 | brutser | nothing else really |
| 15:27.15 | Eryn_1983_FL | ok ratrace |
| 15:27.24 | brutser | i always prevent to allocate memory to the vm's to go over 80% of total memory available |
| 15:27.25 | Eryn_1983_FL | really |
| 15:27.31 | Eryn_1983_FL | what about systemd resolve? |
| 15:28.14 | brutser | to prevent using too much memory which would force the system to try and swap right? |
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| 15:31.20 | Eryn_1983_FL | pasiz: yes i do have dns on my network, |
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| 15:36.01 | ratrace | Eryn_1983_FL: I'm steering clear from it still due to some serious bugs, especially with DNSSEC |
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| 15:37.20 | Eryn_1983_FL | lol |
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| 15:37.41 | Eryn_1983_FL | its local dns not opened to the public, |
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| 16:04.05 | brutser | what packages do i need to install to support my asrock b450m pro4 + 2400g system? any firmware i need to install i mean? |
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| 16:07.31 | annadane | sudo dmesg | grep -i firmware will generally tell you if you're missing anything |
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| 16:08.44 | brutser | ok |
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| 16:15.30 | karlpinc | PaulePanter: Having some swap is always good. Unless you are certain you have more RAM than you will ever use. This is never the case because RAM can always be used for file system buffering. There's always very rarely used pages in any application that can be swapped out to free RAM for something useful. |
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| 16:17.03 | ratrace | %s/never/very rarely/ |
| 16:17.07 | karlpinc | brutser: It's always simplest to install from the unoffical install images which contain non-free firmware. Then your hardware gets the firmware it needs upon install and you don't have to worry about it. |
| 16:17.18 | karlpinc | ratrace: Fair enough. Never is a long time. |
| 16:17.24 | karlpinc | !firmware images |
| 16:17.24 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
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| 16:19.44 | annadane | yeah if you mean an entire system then listen to karlpinc |
| 16:19.52 | annadane | i assumed "device" but... |
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| 16:28.56 | karlpinc | Well, after install you don't have much choice but to figure out what needs what and install manually. |
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| 16:30.30 | tinga | Hi. How do I find out what the backing store is for a device like e.g. /dev/dm-6 ? I want to know if it's encrypted and on which disk. |
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| 16:33.49 | tomreyn | sudo dmsetup info /dev/dm-6 |
| 16:33.56 | tinga | So, the first part can be answered via `dmsetup ls |grep -F "($MAJOR:$MINOR)"` then taking the first column and `dmsetup info $val` |
| 16:34.02 | tinga | yep |
| 16:34.18 | tinga | Now it's encrypted, how do I find out what the backing store is? |
| 16:35.14 | tinga | If there's a graphical tool that simply shows me a graph with, or UI to click through, the connections, that would be perfect. |
| 16:35.43 | tinga | (Command line is fine, too, though.) |
| 16:36.13 | tomreyn | sudo dmsetup ls --tree |
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| 16:38.48 | tinga | That's cool. But it doesn't go back upwards to show what backs the $val I already found. |
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| 16:42.40 | tomreyn | i'm not aware of better tools. you got the major + minor, can work with this, or with /dev/disk/by-* |
| 16:43.46 | tinga | Yes, I can make a program myself to make it nice; but so far I haven't figured out any way to figure out the backing store at all. |
| 16:45.24 | tomreyn | maybe lsblk is what you'r elooking for |
| 16:46.00 | tinga | Wow that does it all, yep! |
| 16:46.07 | tinga | Thanks tomreyn |
| 16:46.46 | tomreyn | you're welcome |
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| 17:26.02 | sn00p | How do I find my ipv6 gateway in debian? |
| 17:26.50 | rudi_s | sn00p: ip -6 r | grep default |
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| 18:07.55 | Han | There is a new release for nicotine-plus-2.0.1. Is there a packager in here who might be interested into bringing the current (10 year old) package up to date? |
| 18:08.23 | Han | The source dir already contains a working /debian dir so it shouldn't be too hard. |
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| 18:09.45 | ratrace | Han: see !bug 955514 |
| 18:09.54 | ratrace | !bug 955514 |
| 18:10.08 | ratrace | kicks dpkg |
| 18:10.21 | ratrace | bug #955514 |
| 18:10.22 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/955514 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: nicotine -- RoQA; Depends on pygtk2, unmaintained»; severity: normal; opened: 2020-04-01; last modified: 2020-05-01. |
| 18:10.26 | ratrace | oh it's judd |
| 18:11.33 | Han | ratrace, the new version depends on python3 and gtk3 |
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| 18:13.26 | brutser | got some boot errors when installing debian on system with Asrock b450m pro4 / AMD 2400G + Asux GTX 960. is there any expert around that have time to take a look at the boot errors? |
| 18:14.10 | brutser | i use debian for 6 months now, so not really an expert when it comes to technical stuff like this ^ |
| 18:14.29 | ratrace | brutser: pastebin and someone might know |
| 18:14.49 | ratrace | Han: you could ping the bug or open a wishlist to reintroduce the package |
| 18:14.56 | brutser | ratrace: ok, do i just pastebin the messages in red? or a complete journalctl -k output? |
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| 18:15.21 | ratrace | brutser: do it all |
| 18:15.50 | brutser | ratrace: ok, journalctl -k is the correct format to get all boot messages? or anything else i need to grab that is relevant? |
| 18:16.17 | ratrace | -k will list kernel messages which is also given by dmesg |
| 18:16.25 | ratrace | I don't know what problems you have there, but start with that |
| 18:16.32 | brutser | ok |
| 18:21.26 | Han | ratrace, "Bug is archived. No further changes may be made." how serious is that. |
| 18:21.39 | brutser | complete journal -k log >> https://termbin.com/ajvb - items that were shown in RED color >> https://bpa.st/NVEQ |
| 18:22.56 | ratrace | Han: that's just for the bug report, not the package itself. see in the first post the requester ack'd future resurrection for pygtk3 |
| 18:23.04 | brutser | system with Asrock b450m pro4 / AMD 2400G + Asux GTX 960 ^^ |
| 18:23.50 | ratrace | brutser: btw, you can get the "red colored" items with journalctl -p err |
| 18:24.04 | brutser | ratrace: ok |
| 18:24.12 | brutser | ^^ i enabled IOMMU in BIOS because i would like to setup qemu-kvm and passthrough the additional gpu in the system for a Windows VM |
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| 18:24.40 | ratrace | neway, looks like acpi problems. and waitaminute.... both amdgpu and nouveau? what is that thing |
| 18:25.22 | brutser | ratrace: https://termbin.com/1pye |
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| 18:26.06 | brutser | so system has igpu with the 2400g apu and also an asus gtx960 that i would like to use for passthrough as explained above |
| 18:27.35 | brutser | i just started the setup/config, so i just installed debian minimal and openbox, also installed firmware-nonfree and firmware-realtek or whatever they are exact called - so firmware-nonfree contains the amd stuff right? and xserver-xorg-video-ati i installed for openbox |
| 18:27.38 | brutser | that's about it |
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| 18:29.19 | brutser | just to be complete: i had one additional boot error: sp5100-tco sp5100-tco: Watchdog hardware is disabled << but i 'solved' this by blacklist sp5100_tco << as the motherboard is not IPMI compliant anyway, so i don't need this module to load and create this boot error.. not 100% sure if I am right on this, but at least the boot error disappeared |
| 18:29.40 | Han | okies. Let's see what happens. |
| 18:30.47 | brutser | ratrace: i hope you or any other expert here can confirm this and also understand what the other boot errors mean and how to fix, i googled hours, but could not find a suitable solution yet - the IOMMU error, most solutions suggest to disable IOMMU with a kernel parameter, but i will need IOMMU later on if i want gpu passthrough right? |
| 18:31.42 | ratrace | brutser: I can't tell if those ACPI errors are critical or just something you can safely ignore. I ahve a few on some on my systems I can safely ignore, for example. |
| 18:32.07 | brutser | those ACPI problems are most likely not critical, i always hate them to show up when booting, but i got laptops too where they show, i believe the only way to get rid of those is the motherboard manufacture to update BIOS right? |
| 18:32.12 | brutser | yes i was just writing that ^ |
| 18:32.26 | ratrace | brutser: equally I can't tell if that MMIO thing for nouveau is boot critical or not. I do know that my main desktop doesn't boot with debian 10 due to nouveau blocking boot, I have to go text mode and install nvidia, before I can boot into normal gui |
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| 18:33.24 | ratrace | brutser: those amdgpu traces look serious though |
| 18:33.43 | brutser | yes they seem like they are some error in the code or something, no? |
| 18:34.05 | brutser | i did find some posts on it, some say it's safe to ignore though |
| 18:35.15 | brutser | ratrace: here some archlinux post about it >> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=234253 |
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| 18:36.40 | ratrace | brutser: that's stretch, btw? if you buy new hardware it's very much recommended to try run latest kernel possible |
| 18:36.53 | ratrace | oh no, wait, 4.19, buster |
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| 18:37.06 | brutser | running buster latest yes |
| 18:37.20 | ratrace | I didn't catch before, does that machine actually boot and run? |
| 18:37.29 | brutser | yes i am talking to you from it |
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| 18:38.29 | ratrace | using nvidia gpu? |
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| 18:38.51 | brutser | no, i have the igpu set as main display now |
| 18:38.57 | brutser | so that's vega something |
| 18:39.12 | ratrace | okay, so amdgpu is working despite the kernel traces for some modules? |
| 18:39.33 | brutser | yes, of course i don't know if it works optimal |
| 18:39.42 | Kurogane | Hello, how i can install libc6 >= 2.25 on stretch? |
| 18:39.43 | brutser | but it displays the screen yes |
| 18:40.44 | ratrace | brutser: this is new hardware, right? |
| 18:42.01 | jmcnaught | Kurogane: you upgrade to buster, libc6 is a very central library that cannot be upgraded without upgrading everything else. |
| 18:42.26 | brutser | not newest, but quite new yes |
| 18:42.55 | ratrace | brutser: I'd recommend you try the backported (newer) kernel. iirc vega had some fixes and improvements in post-4.19 kernels. |
| 18:43.11 | ratrace | Kurogane: if that's just for one application, consider running a buster chroot or container on stretch |
| 18:43.27 | brutser | ratrace: ok, easy to install that kernel? |
| 18:44.14 | brutser | do i add backports to my repository or something and then just upgrade? |
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| 18:44.49 | rudi_s | !bpo |
| 18:44.50 | dpkg | backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <buster backports>) and oldstable (<stretch backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/. See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo xorg> <bdo NEW>. |
| 18:44.57 | ratrace | brutser: you add/enable backports, but don't run whole system upgrade. just install the kernel with -t buster-backports |
| 18:45.06 | Kurogane | ratrace, how i do that? |
| 18:45.29 | ratrace | Kurogane: what do you need exactly, to begin with? |
| 18:46.20 | Kurogane | that what you say, i need only run one app to run libc6 2.25 |
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| 18:48.53 | brutser | ratrace: 5.6 is the latest kernel? |
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| 18:49.48 | ratrace | brutser: yes currently in backports for buster |
| 18:49.56 | dcarr | hey guys networking question here |
| 18:50.03 | RoyK | 5.7 is the latest one from kernel.org. 5.6 is already labelled EOL |
| 18:50.12 | brutser | how would i make sure i only install the kernel and nothing else? |
| 18:50.23 | brutser | RoyK: i don't see 5.7 in backports |
| 18:50.43 | ratrace | brutser: apt install -t buster-backports linux-image-amd64 |
| 18:51.12 | brutser | ratrace: ok that will need me to reboot most likely, so see you in a bit |
| 18:51.15 | dcarr | i just installed debian 10 and i have no idea what it is using for networking |
| 18:51.25 | RoyK | ratrace: I haven't read the whole backlog. Why do you need a new kernel? |
| 18:51.54 | ratrace | RoyK: I recommended it to brutser due to certain amdgpu kernel traces and problems with 4.19, and they got a newer-ish hardware |
| 18:51.56 | brutser | RoyK: i got several boot erros |
| 18:52.05 | ratrace | RoyK: https://termbin.com/ajvb |
| 18:52.10 | dcarr | i am used to just setting up netctl, but sadly that wont work in this case... /etc has config files for programs not installed, and all the guides i have found point to using legacy software that isnt even on my system anyways |
| 18:52.27 | sney | !interfaces |
| 18:52.27 | dpkg | Your network configuration is in the file /etc/network/interfaces ; "man 5 interfaces" for documentation, "zless /usr/share/doc/ifupdown/examples/network-interfaces.gz" for example configurations. Start and stop your networking with ifup -a and ifdown -a respectively. http://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration . See also <dhcp client>, <resolv.conf>, <static route>. |
| 18:52.27 | ratrace | dcarr: /etc/network/interfaces is the default, using ifupdown framework |
| 18:52.47 | brutser | ratrace: i need to re-install firmware after i installed the new kernel? |
| 18:52.49 | ratrace | dcarr: however, on GUI installations, the NetworkManager might overtake that, depending on its config |
| 18:52.55 | brutser | should i also install that from backports? |
| 18:53.21 | ratrace | brutser: I don't see any relevant firmware packages in backports |
| 18:53.43 | ratrace | you don't have to reinstall, firmware files are not bound to kernel version afaik |
| 18:53.48 | dcarr | i stripped it of the gui it came with since i didnt want that installed in the first place and put i3 on it instead, but it will mainly be just cli |
| 18:53.55 | brutser | ratrace: https://bpa.st/V6GA |
| 18:54.05 | brutser | it complains about possible missing realtek firmware |
| 18:54.20 | ratrace | brutser: you need non-free firmware for rtl |
| 18:54.32 | brutser | i already installed that before |
| 18:54.46 | brutser | i think i installed firmware-nonfree and firmware-realtek or whatever they are called exact |
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| 18:55.22 | RoyK | brutser: amd related, it seems |
| 18:55.37 | brutser | RoyK: yes |
| 18:56.27 | dcarr | doesnt deb10 have a clean slate install option like arch installs? |
| 18:56.49 | brutser | let me first reboot after installing the new kernel 5.6 |
| 18:56.55 | ratrace | brutser: it's possible that firmware is not even/yet packaged on debian. maybe you won't even need it |
| 18:56.55 | brutser | and then see what boot errors i have left |
| 18:57.05 | brutser | yes ok, brb |
| 18:57.23 | annadane | dcarr, just don't select a desktop in the installer |
| 18:57.28 | dcarr | i didnt |
| 18:57.38 | dcarr | but it put gnome on it anyways |
| 18:57.45 | ratrace | dcarr: clean slate is wipe and reinstall |
| 18:57.52 | dcarr | and support for devices that i dont even have |
| 18:58.07 | dcarr | fine let me reword it |
| 18:58.10 | ratrace | wait, I have i3-wm setup here, and it didn't install gnome when I deselected desktop task |
| 18:58.20 | dcarr | can i install deb10 like i install arch |
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| 18:58.26 | brutser | is back |
| 18:58.27 | ratrace | I went for GUI-less installation then built it up with lightdm and i3 |
| 18:58.31 | quadrathoch2 | dcarr yes, just use debootstrap |
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| 18:58.38 | ratrace | dcarr: not quite |
| 18:59.21 | ratrace | dcarr: you can start with debootstrap'd installation but that's pretty much what oyu get with regular installation and selecting NO tasks or software to install |
| 18:59.36 | ratrace | unlike arch, you can't really mix and match components. debian is a whole |
| 18:59.46 | dcarr | thats what i want, only base system and install only what i want |
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| 19:00.03 | ratrace | so you need regular installation with no tasks/software selected for installation |
| 19:00.19 | brutser | ratrace, RoyK: these are the errors I am left with now, after kernel update >> https://termbin.com/ajg5 |
| 19:00.32 | dcarr | i must have missed thhat somewhere in the installation then cause i thought that is what i had selected |
| 19:00.36 | brutser | if need other output, please say me .. really like to get this fixed |
| 19:02.16 | ratrace | brutser: you can ignore that nouveau probem if you intend to pass it through to the VM. acpi errors are something I wouldn't know where to start, it's usually a loud mess (sometimes harmless). as for that amdgpu firmware missing, well... seems like that's not packaged |
| 19:02.24 | dcarr | okay i think i can make debbootstrap work for me.. i can put it on a simple 28g jumpdrive right? |
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| 19:02.37 | RoyK | brutser: I guess this is a hint Jul 18 20:57:40 home kernel: firmware_class: See https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware for information about missing firmware |
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| 19:02.56 | dcarr | and use that to bootstrap it to whatever system i choose |
| 19:03.52 | ratrace | dcarr: debootstrap is a package. it's available on other distros too. you can use it to install minimal debian installation into a directory. |
| 19:04.01 | dcarr | cause after using arch for so long, this graphical install is so complex |
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| 19:04.17 | ratrace | dcarr: keep in mind, that "minimal" here means it installs no kernel, no grub, doesn't set up root pass, nor ssh server, nor networking. |
| 19:04.29 | dcarr | similar to arch |
| 19:04.36 | ratrace | dcarr: use the ncurses installer and just hit enter. it's not that more complex at all |
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| 19:04.49 | ratrace | i'm willing to bet you don't need debootstrap here |
| 19:05.06 | dcarr | i'm going from choice to not even knowing what packages are being installed |
| 19:05.09 | ratrace | I use debootstrap for root-on-zfs-on-luks and similar obscure setups that the installer can't do |
| 19:05.16 | jhutchins | dcarr: debootstrap is intended to be run on a working installation. |
| 19:05.35 | ratrace | jhutchins: actually it's not, it's available for other distros |
| 19:05.39 | dcarr | yes so i put a standard working instilation on a flash drive |
| 19:05.44 | brutser | ratrace: here they seem to fixed it >> https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1089150-start-0.html how would i do this for debian? |
| 19:05.47 | ratrace | unless you mean... it needs to be run from a working linux distr, yes |
| 19:05.51 | brutser | do i need to compile the firmware or something? |
| 19:06.09 | dcarr | because that would make me much more comfortable |
| 19:06.50 | jhutchins | ratrace: Yes, doesn't have to be a debian system, but it's not like the installer, doesn't run by itself. |
| 19:07.01 | ratrace | right, it's a command line tool |
| 19:07.16 | jhutchins | dcarr: you'd need a live image to run it from. |
| 19:07.19 | ratrace | I thought you meant working _debian_ installation, nvm. |
| 19:07.23 | dcarr | and thats what i am looking for |
| 19:08.15 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f5771e39006a36de8c8b2bbdea.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:08.17 | ratrace | brutser: frankly I don't know. maybe you don't even need that firmware, and maybe it can be found in newer (not yet backported) packages for bullseye or sid |
| 19:09.03 | ratrace | brutser: right, for example the amdgpu/raven_ta.bin thingy is available in sid's firmware-amd-graphics package |
| 19:09.19 | brutser | ok |
| 19:09.24 | brutser | i will try install that separately |
| 19:09.42 | ratrace | the package has no dependencies, so you _might_ be able to pull off a heresy and install ONLY that one from sid. or do a backport yourself. |
| 19:09.48 | ratrace | !ssb |
| 19:09.49 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
| 19:09.53 | dcarr | okay so last question for now, how do i make systemd auto start my network profiles |
| 19:10.16 | brutser | that sounds complicated ^ |
| 19:10.22 | ratrace | dcarr: "network profiles"? |
| 19:10.34 | ratrace | brutser: after tenth time you'll laugh how simple it is :) |
| 19:10.37 | dcarr | um my ethernet cards |
| 19:10.39 | sney | firmware packages just copy a bunch of binary files to /lib/firmware, there is no compilation involved |
| 19:10.49 | dcarr | i use static ip addrs |
| 19:11.06 | sney | tarballs with newer firmware than what's in debian can be downloaded from kernel.org as well. https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git |
| 19:11.11 | ratrace | brutser: but in this case, recommendations AGAINST notwithstanding, perhaps you can just pull that one from sid, just like you did the kernel from backports |
| 19:11.29 | RoyK | sney: that's the funny thing about it. firmware is the sneaky way to import closed source into an otherwise open-source system |
| 19:11.38 | *** join/#debian shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth) |
| 19:11.49 | sney | indeed, hence the existence of linux-libre |
| 19:12.11 | dcarr | why cant i put a dash in my user name? |
| 19:12.18 | shibboleth | is it possible to determine the max/supported mtu sizes for an interface? |
| 19:12.46 | ratrace | dcarr: typically you set up network via /etc/network/interfaces, which is used by networking.service, but nothing prevents you from using systemd-networkd, if you're familiar with that from arch |
| 19:13.10 | dcarr | actuly i used netctl |
| 19:13.35 | ratrace | that's some Archlinux NIH? like netplan is for Ubuntu? |
| 19:13.41 | dcarr | but as long as the profile file i put in etc/network/interfaces does the job |
| 19:14.14 | dcarr | i just need it to start on boot, so i dont have to loginto the system directly |
| 19:14.28 | *** join/#debian njka- (~njka-@unaffiliated/njka) |
| 19:14.30 | ratrace | I see debian has netctl in bullseye and sid. shiny. |
| 19:14.49 | brutser | RoyK: yes i agree, but how to get your system working without it.. |
| 19:14.59 | dcarr | ratrace: idk what ubuntu and other debian spin offs use, i dont use them normaly |
| 19:15.02 | ratrace | dcarr: https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration#Configuring_the_interface_manually |
| 19:15.03 | brutser | you will have to select your hardware for that purpose if you want to live without firmware |
| 19:15.39 | ratrace | that's something even Purism Librem can't do fully :) |
| 19:15.41 | dcarr | then why didnt those come up when i searched for alternitives |
| 19:15.54 | dcarr | oh well thats why im here, thanks man |
| 19:15.55 | nvz | you can't live without firmware.. you can live without nonfree firmware.. |
| 19:16.21 | ratrace | depends |
| 19:16.35 | brutser | i once had a laptop with coreboot flashed onto the bios chip, but then after doing that, realized i need firmware for amd graphics - so then i am back to closed source blobs |
| 19:16.40 | jhutchins | Firmware usually implemeents government mandated controls, that's why it's not open. |
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| 19:18.01 | nvz | graphics is one of those cases where firmware isn't strictly required.. its only required for certain FEATURES of the device |
| 19:18.10 | nvz | wifi or something, its just not gonna work without it |
| 19:18.32 | brutser | nvz: how i get ati/amd igpu to work without amd firmware? |
| 19:18.45 | nvz | if you've booted and see a message that you need firmware, that means it works without it or you wouldnt be seeing it :P |
| 19:18.55 | sney | sometimes the "certain feature" in question is something like modesetting, though |
| 19:19.27 | brutser | sometimes the certain feature is viewing my desktop instead of text mode only |
| 19:19.30 | nvz | I have a thin client here with Radeon R2E the features it lacks without the firmware are things like multihead, audio over DP.. |
| 19:20.07 | brutser | nvz: hm ok, i have openbox installed on top of debian, but i couldn't get any x started with amd firmware tbh |
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| 19:20.13 | jmcnaught | If the firmware wasn't loadable it would just be baked into the hardware, but still present. |
| 19:20.15 | brutser | but i am no expert by far |
| 19:20.39 | *** join/#debian wildlander (~wildlande@unaffiliated/wildlander) |
| 19:20.49 | brutser | anyway, i am going off topic, i still have my boot errors to worry about :) |
| 19:21.13 | Boodie | Hi, [buster]. I am trying to setup the cloud service on BT, anybody here familiar? |
| 19:22.02 | ratrace | !ask |
| 19:22.02 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 19:22.23 | nvz | Bittorrent? Bluetooth? British Telecom? |
| 19:22.42 | nvz | rolls eyes at two letter acronyms |
| 19:23.08 | *** join/#debian blb4393 (~chatzilla@x59cc82ca.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 19:23.08 | Boodie | British Telecom |
| 19:23.19 | nvz | wow, I actually got it in 3 guesses? :P |
| 19:23.23 | brutser | yes! |
| 19:23.25 | brutser | congrats |
| 19:23.52 | ratrace | !congratulations nvz |
| 19:23.52 | dpkg | Nice one nvz, you did it! |
| 19:23.53 | dcarr | isnt it funny how once your used to doing something fully manualy, its hard to do it automaticly |
| 19:23.56 | annadane | and the question still remains unanswerabl |
| 19:23.59 | annadane | e |
| 19:24.13 | brutser | write your name and address, together with your paypal address, so we can send your price! |
| 19:24.31 | Boodie | Now, they offer an app to sync files for win, mac ... guess what, not for linux |
| 19:24.51 | dcarr | brutser: careful some unwitting newcommer might actuly do just that ;) |
| 19:24.57 | nvz | Boodie: so use something else? |
| 19:25.03 | brutser | syncthing ^ |
| 19:25.05 | Boodie | Is there a way to work it out, e.g. using rsync? |
| 19:25.15 | annadane | now *that* is a *question*. |
| 19:25.37 | sney | Boodie: that depends on what your isp's "cloud" service actually is. the word "cloud" is too vague on its own |
| 19:25.37 | dcarr | hey thats funny, i am trying to learn syncthing too |
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| 19:27.12 | nvz | well one thing is for sure, they don't use slavery.. which is apparent from their website :D |
| 19:27.40 | Boodie | I managed to upload my files, drag&dropping a directory on their "portal", but the apps sync the files "incrementally" ... the threads of discussion seem to confirm that BT does not offer this service for Linux |
| 19:27.44 | nvz | so I guess you can't use the slavery protocol *shrugs* |
| 19:28.01 | Boodie | Slavery? |
| 19:28.19 | Boodie | I thought it was illegal nowadays :) |
| 19:28.20 | ratrace | like slavery, just abolish BT too. plenty of linux friendly services ousside. |
| 19:28.27 | dcarr | boy that came out of left feild |
| 19:28.51 | Boodie | Yeah, problem is I have 1TB free |
| 19:29.05 | Boodie | So it's a pity not to use it |
| 19:29.10 | nvz | or y'know ask the telecom company.. cause we don't support their stuff here |
| 19:29.25 | nvz | all we can do is suggest Debian-friendly alteratives |
| 19:29.29 | ratrace | that sounds like a winnable scenario |
| 19:29.44 | ratrace | or if all fails, run windoze in a VM as a relay to BT cloud |
| 19:29.44 | Boodie | Nah, of course but maybe wget or rsync could be used, I suppose |
| 19:29.56 | nvz | looks to me like bt's cloud has a web interface that should work on anything |
| 19:29.59 | dcarr | say guys serious question here, will deb ever stop supporting tulip cards like centos did? |
| 19:30.07 | ratrace | Boodie: rsync requires a rsync binary on the other end, so if they don't explicitly allow THAT, it'll fail |
| 19:30.19 | abrotman | dcarr: are they supported in the kernel? |
| 19:30.24 | Boodie | OK, interesting |
| 19:30.26 | dcarr | so far |
| 19:30.30 | ratrace | the other end probably being over ssh, as rsync proto itself is not encrypted, so I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole |
| 19:30.35 | abrotman | Then I'd expect Debian will as well |
| 19:30.43 | nvz | dcarr: /lib/modules/4.19.0-9-amd64/kernel/drivers/net/ethernet/dec/tulip/tulip.ko |
| 19:30.56 | dcarr | i mean it still recoginzing both my cards while centos refused to register it |
| 19:31.25 | ratrace | wanders off to ransack a fridge |
| 19:31.29 | dcarr | so i was just thinking of the future |
| 19:31.59 | nvz | dcarr: that sort of thing is dependant on the kernel.. as long as linux supports it I can't see any reason debian wont |
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| 19:33.01 | dcarr | thats good, i was just wondering since every distro is different in what hardware they decide to have support for |
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| 19:34.14 | nvz | linux distros have little say in what they have support for.. unless its something like a disk controller or such that is required for installation.. and even then you can still just boot from a compatible kernel and install and use a kernel from elsewhere |
| 19:34.53 | dcarr | well i agree, but i have found that rpm based systems dont like supporting legacy hardware |
| 19:34.54 | nevyn | dcarr: ubuntu dropping it is ithr they've dropped it from their kernel build (which would be wierd) if it's still in current upstream kernels. |
| 19:36.46 | dcarr | well i have never liked ubuntu and if i use debian, it will be og debian like 10 as is the current version |
| 19:36.52 | abrotman | dcarr: mind you, centos is really just RHEL repackaged .. so ultimately, that was a RH decision |
| 19:37.35 | dcarr | and so is fedora |
| 19:38.01 | dcarr | my point is that it is 'their' decision, therefore what is 'debian's decison |
| 19:38.45 | abrotman | it's supported now, and that's what we can say |
| 19:38.56 | dcarr | okay thanks |
| 19:38.57 | abrotman | Aren't tulip cards still 100Mb? |
| 19:39.01 | abrotman | 10Mb? |
| 19:39.04 | abrotman | they're so old :) |
| 19:39.17 | dcarr | yes, but until we can afford newer hw this is what we are using |
| 19:39.21 | genr8_ | i dont even know what a tulip card is |
| 19:39.53 | abrotman | genr8_: you can look for the driver in the kernel code .. you'll see companies that disappeared long ago |
| 19:39.55 | dcarr | an olde intel pci eth card |
| 19:40.02 | dcarr | or at least mine is |
| 19:40.04 | genr8_ | also, centos drops stuff because redhat is forced to maintain customer support for them. if debian drops support you can choose to install the old version yourself |
| 19:40.10 | *** part/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.123.48) |
| 19:40.33 | abrotman | https://cateee.net/lkddb/web-lkddb/TULIP.html |
| 19:40.41 | dcarr | ah thats why |
| 19:40.45 | abrotman | dcarr: intel? or DEC? |
| 19:41.00 | dcarr | well web research says intel drivers |
| 19:41.14 | dcarr | so that is my assumption |
| 19:41.26 | genr8_ | i wouldnt worry about that. |
| 19:41.29 | abrotman | anyway, I don't think there's been a new tulip card in 15 years? |
| 19:41.55 | nvz | DEC is defunct since 1998 when it was acquired by compaq, which was later acquired by HP |
| 19:42.01 | dcarr | well it didnt bother me until it mattered |
| 19:42.19 | sney | I probably have a 3c59x nic in a drawer somewhere but I don't think I've ever seen a tulip board irl |
| 19:42.22 | genr8_ | as long as the kernel has code for it, debian can too |
| 19:42.33 | nvz | and HP acquired Compaq more than 15 years ago :P |
| 19:42.38 | abrotman | tulip cards generally worked pretty well |
| 19:42.56 | dcarr | oh yes it still works |
| 19:43.01 | dcarr | when the os picks it up |
| 19:44.06 | dcarr | say would 200mb be good for a debian boot part |
| 19:44.24 | nevyn | the dec silicon went to intel. |
| 19:44.40 | nevyn | who basically dropped it in favor of their own nic chipsets |
| 19:44.50 | nvz | dcarr: it'd get you by.. but if you want room to fool with kernels, no. |
| 19:45.04 | sney | the automatic partitioner makes /boot about 250MB when encrypted lvm is selected |
| 19:45.13 | nvz | dcarr: its enough to have a debian kernel and an old debian kernel, sure.. |
| 19:45.22 | dcarr | this is going to be a simple deb on a stick |
| 19:45.47 | nvz | should you want room for debian kernel, backports kernel, custom kernel and old/new versions of all three.. no |
| 19:46.23 | dcarr | i have been using rolling realeases for so long,,, so say about 600mb then? |
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| 19:46.47 | dcarr | its going to be a simple bios boot, no uefi |
| 19:47.03 | nvz | as of right now to have a kernen and room to build the initrd you're lookin at about 50-75MB per kernel |
| 19:47.29 | dcarr | aside from updates, i plan to only have the stock kernel |
| 19:47.32 | dcarr | nothing fancy |
| 19:47.36 | nvz | so if you plan to not keep more than 2-4 kernels, 250-300MB is fine |
| 19:47.38 | dcarr | just a rescue stick |
| 19:47.45 | abrotman | 200MB should be fine |
| 19:47.52 | dcarr | awsome thx |
| 19:47.59 | abrotman | average kernel is about 50MB in /boot |
| 19:48.09 | abrotman | so .. if you want three kernels .. that's probably fine |
| 19:48.29 | abrotman | my current /boot/ wiht 2 kernels is 150MB |
| 19:48.37 | abrotman | (grub is under /boot/) |
| 19:48.57 | abrotman | as is efi/ |
| 19:49.25 | abrotman | dcarr: also, if you can, use LVM, and leave some space |
| 19:49.29 | dcarr | my main one duel boots 10 and arch, so it has uefi, and ends up being 256mb |
| 19:49.36 | petn-randall | I usually make /boot 512MB, as I sometimes test several kernels for bisecting bugs. |
| 19:49.50 | petn-randall | But that's just me, most people get along with less. |
| 19:50.04 | dcarr | well i dont like using lvm's if i can avoid it |
| 19:50.08 | abrotman | you guys probably have 100GB HDDs or something huge! |
| 19:50.22 | dcarr | actily ~1tb |
| 19:50.32 | abrotman | dcarr: do you need to have /boot on its own partition at all? |
| 19:50.36 | dcarr | but its an old win8 laptop |
| 19:51.07 | nvz | yes I had used the defaul of about 250 with auto-partitioning for encrypted lvm and on my T440 I have debian stock, backports, and custom and I have encountered errors on updates with building initrd due to running out of space.. but on systems I use only a debian kernel, 100MB is usually what it is to have the old and updated kernels |
| 19:51.09 | genr8_ | it helps for stuff like encrypted LVM or whatever |
| 19:51.10 | dcarr | i dont *have* to but i have been doing it that way for as long as i have been using linux |
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| 19:55.10 | dcarr | yeah my usual setup is 2MB bios (if applicable) 256MB /boot 25G / * /home |
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| 19:58.25 | genr8_ | im worried my / will fill up |
| 19:58.47 | *** join/#debian Sia- (~sia@unaffiliated/desian) |
| 19:58.57 | dcarr | my main system has about 12G free |
| 19:58.59 | dcarr | on / |
| 19:59.12 | genr8_ | yeah im already using like half of the 25GB too |
| 19:59.20 | dcarr | thats more than enough |
| 19:59.22 | Sia- | hi, even all installed as in debian wiki with cups, but 192.168.1.214:631 not working |
| 19:59.38 | dcarr | since i have pretty much everything i want on it |
| 19:59.48 | brachamh | Sia-, to bring up the admin page? |
| 20:00.09 | brachamh | <ip>:631/admin |
| 20:01.01 | dcarr | but my reasoning is if i need to do a wipe, i dont touch any of my other important folders |
| 20:01.01 | Sia- | brachamh, both |
| 20:01.04 | Sia- | https://paste.debian.net/1156966/ |
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| 20:01.59 | genr8_ | do you have any scripts for saving config files and re-installign debian? |
| 20:02.24 | dcarr | me? |
| 20:02.34 | genr8_ | yes. you seem like you know what you're doing |
| 20:02.46 | jmcnaught | Sia-: cups only listens on localhost by default, look at /etc/cups/cupsd.conf |
| 20:02.48 | dcarr | oh no, tbh i am a hardcore arch user |
| 20:02.59 | genr8_ | ah |
| 20:03.06 | dcarr | i am using deb because pi-hole isnt really supported on ach sadly :(( |
| 20:03.08 | brachamh | oh that's right, you have to set it to listen on the network |
| 20:03.34 | genr8_ | 2 networks 1 cups |
| 20:04.13 | dcarr | but to answer your question, yes and no, i have started scripts but my dad pointed out that they take the fun out of manual install so i never actuly finished them |
| 20:04.15 | Sia- | jmcnaught, i've installed on debian server |
| 20:04.24 | Sia- | not on my own computer |
| 20:05.13 | brachamh | Sia-, so you have to remote into the server and change the settings in the config file jmcnaught mentioned |
| 20:05.53 | brachamh | i set it all up on my ubuntu server a while ago...took a while to find all the settings, but it works great now! going to have to redo it sometime here as i'm setting up the replacement debian server. |
| 20:07.15 | genr8_ | I think the next time I do a manual install I will have to keep a nice list of everything i changed |
| 20:07.25 | genr8_ | then I will know what to save for the next re-install |
| 20:07.33 | Sia- | brachamh, now added listen my server with "Listen 192.168.1.213:631" now the browser "forbidden" |
| 20:07.35 | dcarr | that is true |
| 20:07.53 | dcarr | but i pretty much memorized what i need/want for my system |
| 20:07.53 | brachamh | did you add /admin as i showed earlier? |
| 20:08.23 | dcarr | my installs are generaly pretty uniform |
| 20:08.37 | Sia- | earlier no connection at all, now forbidden |
| 20:08.55 | *** join/#debian runlevel7 (~runlevel7@unaffiliated/runlevel7) |
| 20:08.56 | *** join/#debian deb (~deb@201.164.196.244) |
| 20:09.13 | Sia- | http://192.168.1.213:631/admin is "forbidden" |
| 20:09.29 | dcarr | but if i do need a bruh up, their wiki is exceedingly helpful |
| 20:10.11 | genr8_ | the arch wikis are so helpful they help for other distros incidentally :p |
| 20:10.20 | dcarr | genr8_: most of what i save are in /etc |
| 20:10.34 | dcarr | beuty of linux |
| 20:10.57 | dcarr | however debian and esp gentoo are in most cases a different monster completely |
| 20:11.03 | dcarr | hence my presence here |
| 20:11.08 | genr8_ | i was hoping for some magic way to figure out what was changed and what wasnt. i havent found anyone doing it like that yet |
| 20:11.42 | dcarr | well their are realise notes |
| 20:12.08 | dcarr | and for files you can always use diff to check differences |
| 20:12.30 | brachamh | Sia-, you showed 214:613 earlier, now you're showing 213:613 |
| 20:13.10 | dcarr | sry i meant more like patch notes |
| 20:13.50 | jhutchins | brachamh: Yeah, release notes. |
| 20:14.08 | genr8_ | i was hoping for some kind of script that runs a checksum on the new install, or runs a diff of your old configs, and does the thing Apt does where it says "Yes/No/Keep/Delete/Manual" |
| 20:14.16 | brachamh | Sia-, sorry, i got the port wrong this time |
| 20:14.22 | brachamh | jhutchins, what? |
| 20:14.45 | jhutchins | brachamh: Wrong tag, sorry. |
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| 20:15.56 | genr8_ | im not sure how it would work. it seems vaguely possible but ive never heard of anyone doing it like that |
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| 20:16.10 | brachamh | jhutchins, no worries you just confused me! |
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| 20:16.39 | genr8_ | Im very excited to watch this podcast now https://youtu.be/O9upVbGSBFo |
| 20:16.47 | genr8_ | Brian Kernighan: UNIX, C, AWK, AMPL, and Go Programming | AI Podcast #109 with Lex Fridman |
| 20:16.53 | genr8_ | just released today |
| 20:17.19 | genr8_ | literal computing genius legend and hes still alive and theres someone to pick his brain |
| 20:17.36 | genr8_ | sharp too |
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| 20:18.13 | Sia- | after restart i changed to 213 |
| 20:18.29 | brachamh | ok |
| 20:18.52 | jhutchins | genr8_: Let's keep to the topic here, Debian support questions. |
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| 20:19.00 | brachamh | Sia-, that's going to be a pain in the butt, if your IP keeps changing. is it not? |
| 20:19.14 | aguitel | how install woeusb in debian ? |
| 20:19.26 | genr8_ | ok lets not learn things |
| 20:19.42 | dcarr | tbf this is a dedicated room for deb |
| 20:19.55 | dcarr | they do have a social room where ppl just talk |
| 20:19.58 | brachamh | genr8_, #debian-offtopic |
| 20:20.05 | genr8_ | k |
| 20:20.08 | dcarr | yeah there its |
| 20:22.00 | ryouma | what i would do to install things not in debian is check backports then if not there or trustworthy looking then try to install from upstream into home dir or /opt using upstream instructions. this is not CORRECT in debian but i ahve tried creating my own backports and ... ugh. |
| 20:22.15 | brachamh | Sia-, https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/service-cups is ubuntu, but should be the same as debian. it's updated from when i used it before, and looks pretty good from what i can see! |
| 20:22.17 | ryouma | but what i REALLY do is not install anything in debian at all that isn't debian |
| 20:23.01 | dcarr | generaly a good rule of thumb for most distros |
| 20:23.29 | dcarr | easy way to break them otherwise if your not careful |
| 20:23.59 | brachamh | i gotta get some stuff done though so gotta run. |
| 20:24.20 | dcarr | gl hf |
| 20:24.22 | jhutchins | It depends on what the packages are. For PHP stuff like WordPress I use upstream. |
| 20:24.26 | dcarr | stay safe |
| 20:25.21 | jhutchins | Sometimes I install it from the distro, see where it puts things, uninstall and replace with upstream. |
| 20:25.54 | dcarr | nice idea |
| 20:26.48 | dcarr | kinda how i find config files if i dont know where they are placed by what program |
| 20:27.18 | dcarr | although i tend to use tree |
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| 20:28.54 | ryouma | jhutchins: wow i can't believe you do that. i treat debian dirs as sacrosanct and figure /opt won't cause harm. |
| 20:29.32 | dcarr | well sometimes desprate times call for desprate measures |
| 20:29.43 | ryouma | although of course it could splatter files all over if upstream is not careful |
| 20:29.54 | ryouma | mmm i could see that |
| 20:30.12 | ryouma | or if i am fogged when trying to set the makefile |
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| 20:30.27 | ryouma | but i just go without whatever program instead |
| 20:30.59 | dcarr | worse case senario you switch to the distro that nativly supports it if all else fails |
| 20:31.37 | dcarr | or make a vm and mess with that until you get it right and translate over |
| 20:32.56 | ryouma | what really annoys me a great deal is shadowfox (i think that is what it is called) which is the only firefox darkener that is supposed to actually work, but has a binary blob to install it. depriving myelf o that is a problem for accessibility reasons. would be great as a debian package. |
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| 20:33.58 | ryouma | (isn't erally a binary blob as much as a go program that seems completely unnecessary to just install static files) |
| 20:34.24 | ryouma | (and i don't want to vet go) |
| 20:34.26 | genr8_ | my /opt is filled with electron programs that are just duplicating their electron layer out of lazyness and wasting 100MB of space |
| 20:35.12 | dcarr | well guys im going to go on a short walk so bye for now |
| 20:37.04 | Sia- | all pages are forbidden on <IP>:631 |
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| 20:37.37 | jhutchins | Sia-: Look at your logs, see what they think is happening. |
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| 20:38.11 | jhutchins | Sia-: This is not how the software works, so something is not configured correctly. |
| 20:39.25 | Sia- | jhutchins, on ubuntu was nothing needed after cups install, why all this in debian even for local access |
| 20:39.46 | genr8_ | security |
| 20:42.16 | genr8_ | if you cant handle it, or dont' get it, you might wanna go back to ubuntu |
| 20:42.29 | Sia- | jhutchins, https://paste.debian.net/plain/1156973 |
| 20:43.04 | genr8_ | A) theres errors in the config file . B) looks like its trying to use HTTPS |
| 20:43.31 | genr8_ | have you tried with typing the "s" in after http? |
| 20:44.21 | Sia- | genr8_, |
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| 20:45.01 | genr8_ | Sia-, |
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| 20:46.10 | Sia- | genr8_, be nice we are here to help each other not so rude like you does |
| 20:46.35 | genr8_ | it took you so long to type that rather than fix the problem |
| 20:46.45 | ratrace | hands a facepalm to genr8_ |
| 20:47.11 | genr8_ | Sorry did i melt his snowflake? |
| 20:47.29 | Sia- | genr8_, i can't fix it thats why i'm here, stop trolling and change the topic |
| 20:47.50 | jhutchins | Sia-: Debian expects you to learn abut how the system works. |
| 20:47.53 | genr8_ | i gave 2 valid solutions, you changed to taking offense to factual statements. |
| 20:48.04 | jhutchins | !cups |
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| 20:48.05 | dpkg | CUPS (formerly Common Unix Printing System) provides a portable printing layer for Unix-based operating systems and supports the Internet Printing Protocol. To install, ask me about <cups setup>. See also <debug cups>. http://cups.org/faq.php http://www.cups.org/ ##cups on irc.freenode.net. |
| 20:49.24 | genr8_ | look a cups channel |
| 20:50.21 | Sia- | genr8_, you didnøt without searching in google and throw it here. any way thanks even was pointless all you chat |
| 20:50.48 | genr8_ | idk what that even means |
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| 20:51.14 | Sia- | genr8_, ignored |
| 20:51.20 | genr8_ | the language barrier gets worse when you get mad |
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| 20:52.11 | Sia- | jhutchins, i did, but the logs give the same error with location changed or the default |
| 20:52.22 | jhutchins | whois sia |
| 20:53.25 | ratrace | the singer? |
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| 20:57.00 | jhutchins | Sia-: Try /msg dpkg cups setup and see if you missed something. |
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| 20:57.51 | genr8_ | his config file has <Location errors. and its trying to use TLS encryption (HTTPS), and hes typing urls with http |
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| 20:58.24 | genr8_ | its probably 1 typo away from working |
| 20:58.28 | jaysbnc | hi guys, i suffer from unreliable ssh connection on one of my debian 10 host |
| 20:58.49 | genr8_ | are you on wifi ? |
| 20:59.17 | jaysbnc | when i had this issues in the past on a host i ran spinner and all was fine. but that host giving me a hard time, everythin else is good |
| 20:59.17 | Sia- | jhutchins, i did as debian wiki 100% |
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| 21:00.29 | jaysbnc | genr8_: allready checkd that |
| 21:00.31 | jaysbnc | no |
| 21:01.04 | genr8_ | google 'SSH timeout' |
| 21:01.13 | jaysbnc | i am running âLinux debian10 4.19.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.118-2+deb10u1â |
| 21:02.06 | mutante | jaysbnc: tried replacing the ethernet cable on that host? |
| 21:02.09 | genr8_ | There should already be occasional keep-alive packets sent. probably something else is dropping the connection. |
| 21:02.34 | n_1-c_k | jaysbnc, try 'autossh', I've found it works well to mitigate a sometimes intermittent connection. |
| 21:02.43 | jaysbnc | genr8_: i am using âspinnerâ to avoid any timeout issues |
| 21:03.08 | jaysbnc | mutante: its a virtual host. all other services work fine |
| 21:03.18 | mutante | if it's just one of 10 hosts and they are in the same data center then it seems unlikely it has to do with the general network though |
| 21:03.30 | mutante | more like what could be different about that 1 host |
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| 21:04.16 | jaysbnc | n_1-c_k: i dont need a permanet connection |
| 21:04.16 | genr8_ | you know there were major internet outages yesterday right ? with cloudflare |
| 21:04.26 | jaysbnc | this connection drops within seconds |
| 21:04.54 | genr8_ | ok, sounds like a resource limit. are you out of memory on that host ? have you checked the logs for what errors show ? |
| 21:05.22 | jaysbnc | mutante: that host is only available via an wireguard tunnel |
| 21:05.51 | jaysbnc | but even opening ssh on the firewall results in fast ssh connection drops |
| 21:06.12 | jaysbnc | i can start a few commands, but when its a lot of text, it breaks down |
| 21:06.14 | genr8_ | if you see any error messages like "Resource Temporarily Unavailable" its gonna be a resource limit issue. |
| 21:06.30 | jaysbnc | genr8_: |
| 21:07.27 | jaysbnc | genr8_: memory is nearly not used. its just an vpn gateway to my home network. running iperf3 sometime. but that works totally fine |
| 21:08.28 | genr8_ | are you using a pfsense firewall? |
| 21:10.04 | jaysbnc | genr8_: my local openwrt is connected to that gateway |
| 21:10.28 | genr8_ | I would consider that suspect |
| 21:10.42 | jaysbnc | but thats not the issue. pings are totally perferct. even when i ssh directly into the machine its stalling. |
| 21:10.53 | genr8_ | either the cable, or the port, or the software on the openwrt is set to reset states, or a hardware reset in the unit itself |
| 21:11.35 | genr8_ | if theres nothing in logs, its some kind of network hardware error |
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| 21:13.09 | jaysbnc | genr8_: changed the openwrt device 2 days ago :-D |
| 21:14.39 | genr8_ | <jaysbnc> mutante: its a virtual host. |
| 21:14.49 | genr8_ | is it a virtual host? or is it a physical hardware? |
| 21:15.14 | jaysbnc | genr8_: i wonder why it keeps crashing |
| 21:15.26 | jaysbnc | maybe it has to do with qemu |
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| 21:17.46 | genr8_ | have you done some kind of hardware NIC passthrough ? |
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| 21:19.23 | jaysbnc | genr8_: only ipforwarding |
| 21:19.30 | jaysbnc | iam using OpenSSH_7.9p1 Debian-10+deb10u2, OpenSSL 1.1.1d 10 Sep 2019 |
| 21:20.05 | genr8_ | I dont know then |
| 21:20.42 | genr8_ | sounds like a physical error to me. but you say its virtual. so its not adding up. |
| 21:21.52 | genr8_ | check QEMU logs then |
| 21:23.19 | genr8_ | is the VM image coming from across the network ? |
| 21:24.05 | genr8_ | there could be some kind of network access error between QEMU and the VM image itself |
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| 21:26.48 | jaysbnc | âJul 18 22:59:28 debian10 qemu-ga: info: guest-ping calledâ |
| 21:27.20 | genr8_ | that is normal |
| 21:27.21 | jaysbnc | it must be qemu |
| 21:27.35 | genr8_ | yeah. look into qemu |
| 21:27.41 | jaysbnc | its the only host thats on qemu |
| 21:28.03 | jaysbnc | i have no access to qemu :-D its a vhost |
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| 21:29.14 | genr8_ | complain |
| 21:29.49 | jaysbnc | genr8_: :-D |
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| 21:31.07 | genr8_ | it could be some kind of "virtio" issue |
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| 21:34.27 | genr8_ | either way, the vhost should know why their own QEMU doesnt work. its too complex to just be guessing 20 questions |
| 21:34.56 | jaysbnc | genr8_: guess so |
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| 21:36.26 | jaysbnc | just did âapt-get upgradeâ |
| 21:36.48 | jaysbnc | wireguard module got updated, sind 2 minutes i am connected stable :-D |
| 21:37.29 | genr8_ | ohhh |
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| 21:39.44 | mutante | hah, nice. so wireguard had to be the difference |
| 21:39.50 | dym | Hey! Im running Debian 10 with Gnome Classic. Is there any way to show the frequencies of stored/past wlan connections? |
| 21:42.55 | genr8_ | well the frequencies are determined by Wifi Channels. thats determined inside the wireless card. but the OS should know what channels its on. |
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| 21:43.32 | dym | genr8_: Im looking for the frequency of a network i was connected roughly 7 days ago. Will there be evidence in a log? |
| 21:43.59 | genr8_ | no, look for Channels |
| 21:44.26 | genr8_ | the networks are determined by SSID and channel number |
| 21:44.57 | dym | I am not connected to the network right now. |
| 21:45.05 | kedar_apte | are you maintaining the syslogs somewhere? |
| 21:45.24 | kedar_apte | I thing the wpa supplicant log will show you the frequesncy number |
| 21:45.34 | kedar_apte | wpa supplicant log will b ein /var/log/ |
| 21:46.54 | dym | kedar_apte: unfortunately there is no such log. I found some bits in syslog and messages, but just references to network manager files, lacking the content im seeking. |
| 21:47.13 | kedar_apte | hmm ok |
| 21:47.36 | jaysbnc | thanks guys |
| 21:47.43 | jaysbnc | my connection is now rock solid |
| 21:48.06 | genr8_ | nice |
| 21:50.19 | genr8_ | yea it looks like wpa_supplicant does know what frequencies they are |
| 21:50.27 | jaysbnc | next topic: which notebook do you recommend? i was thinking about a huawei matebook 13 with amd ryzen 7 4500h. any expirience on that? |
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| 21:50.57 | dym | boom! hidden in daemon.log! |
| 21:50.58 | dym | daemon.log.1:Jul 7 13:25:41 hyperion wpa_supplicant[715]: wlp3s0: Trying to associate with 7a:8a:20:b8:cb:c2 (SSID='Harlesiel' freq=5220 MHz) |
| 21:51.05 | dym | thanks guys! |
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| 21:53.06 | genr8_ | interesting |
| 21:54.55 | genr8_ | laptops have gotten to stupid levels of proprietary these days. and huawei is now a security risk |
| 21:55.58 | genr8_ | Ryzen 4500's are good, but they can usually only put them in alternative model laptops cause Intel has vendor deal lockins on the primary models |
| 21:59.43 | genr8_ | and AMD did not even follow through with their promise for open firmware. its still closed. and then it leads to linux support issues |
| 22:01.31 | genr8_ | at least with Intel you have them committed to coding their own patches in so all the little quirks work properly |
| 22:02.56 | genr8_ | so I avoid laptops entirely. its a terrible landscape and if you throw a dart at a dartboard based on what your eyes think on first glance, it will richochet and end up hitting you in the butt once you actually go to use it in linux |
| 22:05.02 | genr8_ | you want to buy specific models with known history of being supported, not the newest toy on the market |
| 22:05.22 | genr8_ | theres probably a linux laptop development tracker to find out what specific models are good, but idk it. |
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| 22:10.17 | jaysbnc | genr8_: are you sure about the security? |
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| 22:10.53 | genr8_ | are you |
| 22:11.43 | jaysbnc | genr8_: i wan to get rid of my macbook. i switched from opensuse to mac in 2006. since steve jobs passed away, apple somehow got worse. i am willing for a change :-D |
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| 22:12.14 | nvz | I'm happy with my 8 or so year old Lenovo Thinkpads.. it all works well in Debian.. I just dont bother thinking about the proprietary backdoors :P |
| 22:12.15 | genr8_ | everytime i open the lid, i would look at the brand name huawei and think "There could be any kind of bug in these chips." one may be counterfeit and have unreleased 0-days waiting to pwn at a moments notice |
| 22:12.45 | genr8_ | well I commend you for not buying a new macbook |
| 22:12.47 | jaysbnc | genr8_: i think if there is a real risk, it would be in the media very fast. |
| 22:13.02 | nvz | has never seen a huawei anything but thats to be expected in this time/place |
| 22:13.47 | genr8_ | so you wanna wait for the media to find it when the government already banned it in advance |
| 22:15.08 | mutante | you don't see the huawei hardware in the phone towers |
| 22:15.21 | jaysbnc | genr8_: i think they stick to intel or amds board design. the backdoor is allready there by design from intel/amd |
| 22:15.38 | jaysbnc | remember that cisco stuff snowden told us :-D |
| 22:16.04 | genr8_ | yeah. or they added their own cause they have full access to do so and just as many places to hide it |
| 22:16.37 | jaysbnc | as far as i remember it is really tuff to get rid of intels vpro chip features on many intel laptops |
| 22:16.50 | genr8_ | yes |
| 22:16.52 | jhutchins | genr8_: None of this is about Debian support, could you take it elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic? |
| 22:17.11 | genr8_ | i tried. |
| 22:19.13 | jhutchins | jaysbnc: Hardware is difficult to track, because the components change rapidlly and the manufacturers don't always change the model designation. |
| 22:20.07 | genr8_ | why would you tell me to take it elsewhere and then continue the discussion |
| 22:20.11 | jhutchins | jaysbnc: I know that Dell often offers Linux, but not sure which distros they use. There are laptops that come with linux pre-installed, although they're often priced higher than their specs. |
| 22:20.25 | jhutchins | genr8_: Because you were off topic. |
| 22:20.36 | genr8_ | so drop it |
| 22:20.40 | jaysbnc | jhutchins: your right⦠we got carried away :-D |
| 22:20.59 | jhutchins | jaysbnc: Happens to all of us. |
| 22:21.20 | jaysbnc | jhutchins: i will try a cheapo amd huwei for time beingâ¦. hope i donât run into serious issues |
| 22:21.29 | annadane | i would buy lenovo but for that superfish thing, i don't want them to get more money if they were doing stuff like that |
| 22:21.33 | nvz | afaik dell sells with ubuntu, and usually any linux pcs either have ubuntu or some very libre type os.. often custom |
| 22:21.37 | annadane | then again what company is truly 100% ethical |
| 22:21.45 | jhutchins | jaysbnc: There are hardware compatibility databases, but they rely on users to report, and people don't usually bother unless they have a problem. |
| 22:22.17 | jhutchins | I'm on a Dell 6430u and everything works (haven't checked the ssd slot). |
| 22:22.53 | jhutchins | jaysbnc: Thinkpads are usually pretty compatible. |
| 22:24.32 | jaysbnc | anyone is using a zenbook? |
| 22:24.54 | nvz | really I wouldnt mind discussing the topic of linux on computers a bit more in #debian-offtopic if anyone cares to :P |
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| 22:54.53 | FightingFalcon | Can you use use inotifywait -e moved_to delete (i mean can you watch two events at the same time? |
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| 22:59.45 | ratrace | FightingFalcon: checked the manpage for -e option? |
| 23:00.23 | FightingFalcon | um no |
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| 23:00.31 | ratrace | FightingFalcon: perhaps you should :) |
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| 23:08.56 | FightingFalcon | ok |
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