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| 06:28.42 | timothywcrane | know where I can get info pages online like https://dyn.manpages.debian.org/ for man? Ducking such a vague term as info has proven futile without sorting through millions of results? |
| 06:29.00 | timothywcrane | even with quotes and focus term formation |
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| 06:36.52 | awal1 | timothywcrane, you mean you wanna manual page for 'man' (the interface to the on-line reference manuals)? |
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| 06:38.58 | timothywcrane | no, info pages... using for extra info not in the man pages for most gnu utils used in netinstall... but wanted it online as I did not want to install info with apt... preparing some docs for a raw min deb vm for students |
| 06:39.45 | awal1 | hm |
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| 06:42.54 | timothywcrane | guess Ill just spin up another vm... just hate to kill all that memory just to read some info pages. Thanks |
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| 06:50.55 | hiya | When I use an app that utilizes gnutls like weechat and I cannot find gnutls on my debian server, what does it mean? |
| 06:51.08 | hiya | Does it mean the gnutls is built-in or what is the case? |
| 06:51.15 | hiya | I want to list the best available cipherlist |
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| 07:03.36 | ksk | hiya: in general it might be staticly linked against gnutls, but I was under the impression debian did not do that. |
| 07:03.56 | hiya | ksk: Ok |
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| 07:04.43 | ksk | hiya: "ldd /path/to/file" will tell you against which libraries its linked. (aka which libs it depends on, so to say) |
| 07:05.00 | hiya | I see |
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| 08:32.02 | hassoon | anyone else having no sound in wine games in debian buster ? |
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| 09:08.11 | ksk | !anyone |
| 09:08.12 | dpkg | Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>. |
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| 09:12.47 | ksk | hassoon: ^ |
| 09:13.08 | ksk | how are you using wine? I found lutris very handy. (third party, not part of the Debian project) |
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| 09:23.26 | rander2 | hello |
| 09:26.17 | rander2 | when I boot my laptop it stop for some minute, and I don't understart what's happen |
| 09:26.19 | rander2 | https://i.paste.pics/9d7c3cb84c616174cfd695d238e98d6d.png |
| 09:26.36 | rander2 | raise interface |
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| 09:28.54 | Shadur | ... Huh. Looks like Sophos firewalls just started explicitly blocking http://legacy.raspbian.org/raspbian/. https still works, as does http to the root, but once you try to go into the repository it throws up a security alert page instead. |
| 09:29.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1137] by debhelper |
| 09:29.38 | ksk | Shadur: cool, but neither Sophos no raspbian.org are part of the Debian Project :) |
| 09:29.50 | joze | maybe this? https://community.chakralinux.org/t/stuck-on-started-network-manager-script-at-boot-after-update/6735 |
| 09:30.00 | joze | i googled it for you |
| 09:30.40 | Shadur | ksk: I'm aware, just figured it'd be a useful head's up for people. |
| 09:32.11 | ratrace | rander2: when it finishes booting, check the logs. journalctl -p err journalctl -u networking.service |
| 09:35.27 | Shadur | More relevant to the channel is that if anyone is considering getting a Radeon RX5600 or newer they absolutely need to upgrade to sid and get the very latest firmware-amd-graphics driver, because earlier ones either don't recognize the card at all or throw a kernel panic the moment they try to make it do anything beyond standard VGA text mode. Even rescue mode wasn't working because rescue mode does upscale |
| 09:35.29 | Shadur | to vesa text mode. |
| 09:35.54 | Shadur | Fixing that was /fun/. |
| 09:36.30 | rander2 | http://paste.debian.net/1158152/ |
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| 09:42.55 | rander2 | ? |
| 09:43.54 | rander2 | paste from bash ? |
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| 09:47.37 | rander2 | eth0:avahi: flags=4099<UP,BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 |
| 09:47.37 | rander2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:47.38 | rander2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:47.59 | rander2 | what is this interface ? I have another normal eth0 |
| 09:48.00 | hassoon | ksk: i just use it in the termina;, wine file.exe |
| 09:48.10 | hassoon | i'm aware of playonlinux, but meh, i just need wine in my case |
| 09:48.39 | rander2 | apt install wine |
| 09:48.56 | hassoon | what ? |
| 09:49.02 | rander2 | I use wine too for simple program as irfan view |
| 09:49.12 | rander2 | or mIRC |
| 09:49.16 | hassoon | rander2: and ? |
| 09:49.20 | Epakai | Somehow I got every key in my libvirtd service duplicated, but daemon-reload and disable/enable doesn't fix this, what gives? |
| 09:49.26 | rander2 | and it go |
| 09:49.38 | ratrace | Epakai: did you pastebin journalctl -u networking.service ? |
| 09:49.48 | ratrace | sorry, rander2 ^^^^ |
| 09:50.28 | rander2 | ratrace, paste from a txt fine without browser ? |
| 09:51.21 | ratrace | rander2: journalctl -u networking.service | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 09:52.04 | rander2 | ratrace, ok, but dpkg bot don't say it |
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| 09:52.21 | ratrace | rander2: what are you talking about? |
| 09:52.33 | rander2 | https://termbin.com/j8j0 |
| 09:52.47 | rander2 | dpkg bot of this channel |
| 09:52.48 | dpkg | rander2: I wish you would RTFM. |
| 09:53.03 | ratrace | rander2: what about the bot? |
| 09:53.48 | Epakai | hrmm, systemctl edit and writing empty didn't actually write an empty override.conf |
| 09:53.50 | rander2 | .dpkg dont tell about | nc termbin.com 999 |
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| 09:54.24 | ratrace | rander2: you have a problem with DHCP on the eth0 side of the network, apparently no dhcp server |
| 09:54.54 | ratrace | rander2: there are many ways to pastebin, yeah, the bot doesn't list them |
| 09:55.19 | rander2 | I have 2 eth0 interfaces, and I haven't ethernet cables |
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| 09:55.45 | ratrace | rander2: then you should disable dhcp on those, if there's no cable, so they're not functioning |
| 09:56.28 | rander2 | https://termbin.com/5ul3 |
| 09:57.15 | rander2 | what is eth0:avahi |
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| 09:58.06 | rander2 | ok, how may I disable dhcp on the boot ? service ... ? |
| 09:58.07 | ratrace | rander2: I'm not too familiar with avahi, but I take it it's assigning the rfc subnet 169.254 since there's no mdsn responder, since there's no physical network beyond eth0 NIC |
| 09:58.22 | ratrace | rander2: avahi is the mdns implmenentation thing on linux |
| 09:59.59 | ratrace | rander2: avahi is probably set up by your desktop environment. my experience with avahi stops at knowing what it is and what it does. you disable eth0 (dhcp) by removing the stanzas from /etc/network/interfaces in this case |
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| 10:02.47 | rander2 | avahi is multicast dns |
| 10:04.15 | ratrace | right, I said mdns |
| 10:06.04 | rander2 | https://termbin.com/96ypw |
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| 10:07.05 | ratrace | rander2: what are you showing here? the file it is now, or aftre you removed it? add some context to your posts please |
| 10:07.16 | ratrace | removed it = removed the stanzas |
| 10:08.13 | rander2 | in the file there isn't eth0 interface |
| 10:08.30 | ratrace | rander2: what about /etc/network/interfaces.d/ directory? any files with eth0 stanzas there? |
| 10:09.30 | rander2 | ok try to reboot |
| 10:09.41 | ratrace | ra1stlin: wa........ |
| 10:09.58 | ratrace | sorry ra1stlin , reboot trigger happy users causing tabfail |
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| 10:12.12 | rander2 | all right now |
| 10:12.33 | ratrace | !next |
| 10:12.33 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 10:12.42 | rander2 | ratrace, thx |
| 10:13.03 | ratrace | rander2: so I take it you had files in /etc/network/interfaces.d/ ? |
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| 10:18.06 | gpeskens | When packaging for debian, is there a way to automatically mark a package as held? |
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| 10:22.54 | Unit193 | gpeskens: What specifically is your goal? |
| 10:24.31 | gpeskens | I have a custom package that I don't want to be upgraded when our tooling runs either apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade, so I want to mark the package as held (or equivalent) to prevent that. Is there an "official" way to do this? I guess I can also just modify my postinstall script and add an apt-mark command |
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| 10:25.10 | H4ndy | look up apt pinning to prevent updates |
| 10:25.37 | H4ndy | it's a simple text file you can deploy that will tell apt what to do with certain package(s) |
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| 10:27.44 | gpeskens | H4ndy, we have a private repo where the package lives that is pinned with a higher prio. However we don't want the package to upgrade automatically even if a newer version of the package lives there |
| 10:28.08 | gpeskens | Or does the config also allow to automatically pin/hold to the installed version? |
| 10:28.25 | H4ndy | you can pin to exact versions as well |
| 10:29.29 | H4ndy | it allows you to pin for example to v2.0.* if you want to allow more versions or to an exact version like v2.0.5 |
| 10:30.43 | Unit193 | Could use d/rules and DEB_VERSION to use the *exact* version too. |
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| 10:35.20 | gpeskens | thx |
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| 11:03.33 | shtrb | [debian testing][already asked in debian-next@oftc] - does anyone remember the package name that is needed to be installed to enable opening msg [CDFV2 Microsoft Outlook Message] files in Kmail/Kontact ? I already checked and have libemail-outlook-message-perl and KMail can open eml files (converted by msgconvert) |
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| 11:05.14 | thiras | what's the equivalent of libgdbm5 at buster? |
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| 11:09.19 | themill | ,names libgdbm* |
| 11:09.22 | judd | Search for libgdbm* in buster/amd64: libgdbm6 1.18.1-4; libgdbm-compat4 1.18.1-4; libgdbm-compat-dev 1.18.1-4; libgdbm-dev 1.18.1-4 |
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| 11:44.44 | Eryn_1983_FL | hey guys how do i turn off the system bell? |
| 11:45.11 | Eryn_1983_FL | i really dont like the constant beebs when i hist the begining of the line or hit tab and nothting comes out |
| 11:45.26 | Eryn_1983_FL | i use urvxt terminal but it happens in others too |
| 11:46.32 | ksk | Eryn_1983_FL: Do you know about internet search engines by chance? |
| 11:46.36 | beardy | !beep |
| 11:46.36 | dpkg | [beep] printf \\a, or aptitude install beep, or ask me about <bell>, <qotd89>. For the audio player, ask me about <bmp>. For the protocol framework, see http://beepcore.org/ |
| 11:46.39 | beardy | !shell beep |
| 11:46.40 | dpkg | hmm... shell beep is man inputrc ; man readline (i.e. edit ~/.inputrc and set bell-style none) - also man setterm. |
| 11:46.45 | beardy | !bell |
| 11:46.45 | dpkg | To disable the bell: "xset b off" in X, "setterm -blength 0" in console. For some reason, bash beeps excessively when in emacs (default) mode; "set -o vi" puts it in vi editing mode, which doesn't beep on partial completions. In konsole, Settings->Bell->Visible Bell. See also <pcspkr>, <shell beep>, <metacity bell bug>. |
| 11:46.48 | beardy | I meant.. |
| 11:46.53 | Eryn_1983_FL | i do i do i am searching for it as we speak |
| 11:46.56 | Eryn_1983_FL | trying URxvt*urgentOnBell: false |
| 11:47.13 | ksk | see what dpkg wrote, xset is what you are looking for as far as I know. |
| 11:48.15 | Eryn_1983_FL | ok that worked xset b off |
| 11:48.40 | Eryn_1983_FL | ty |
| 11:51.28 | ratrace | Eryn_1983_FL: is that pcspkr beep or normal audio beep? |
| 11:54.50 | Eryn_1983_FL | pc |
| 11:55.32 | Eryn_1983_FL | does not go through my headphone comes from my desktop |
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| 12:00.50 | ratrace | Eryn_1983_FL: blacklist the pcspkr module |
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| 12:03.44 | Eryn_1983_FL | yeah i saw that seemed a bit drastic |
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| 12:04.01 | Eryn_1983_FL | i just put it in my basrc and when i boot up it and login to terminal its gone |
| 12:04.48 | ratrace | there's nothing drastic about blacklisting the pcspkr module. that thing is an abomination. even though there are othre way to block beep, that damned thing must be perma-shushed |
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| 12:06.13 | Eryn_1983_FL | so did milk and cookies go away? |
| 12:06.18 | Eryn_1983_FL | their site does not work anymore |
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| 12:06.29 | Eryn_1983_FL | sorry wrong windows |
| 12:08.25 | ratrace | wonders what the correct channel is for _that_ convo :) |
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| 12:10.49 | GuiltySpark343 | What do you guys think is the most widely used ftp server on debian? |
| 12:11.42 | Ede|Popede | !popcon |
| 12:11.42 | dpkg | well, popcon is the Debian Popularity contest, the basis for what packages appear on the first few CDs/DVDs etc (by rank). Install the popularity-contest package to participate. See the results at http://popcon.debian.org/ -- See the FAQ at http://popcon.debian.org/FAQ . Statistics are also available via IRC, /msg judd popcon $package |
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| 12:11.53 | Ede|Popede | !ftpmustdie |
| 12:11.53 | dpkg | FTP MUST DIE! http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie . For authenticated file transfer, ask me about <sftp>. For unauthenticated download, HTTP: http://daniel.haxx.se/docs/ftp-vs-http.html . Debian ceased offering mirrors via FTP on 2017-11-01 https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20170425 |
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| 12:13.01 | GuiltySpark343 | FTP servers do seem to suck, but I have to learn how to use them regardless |
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| 12:13.45 | ratrace | if you actually need a real-deal FTP server and not just SFTP (FTP over SSH), then vsftpd used to be very popular and recommended in the day. |
| 12:13.54 | Ede|Popede | encryption and using a 2 port system seem to be the arguments. but they are convenient in the shell. |
| 12:14.26 | ratrace | *back in the |
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| 12:18.08 | GuiltySpark343 | Hmm. Thanks for the answers. |
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| 13:25.45 | obiwahn | How do I create a bridge device in stable? |
| 13:26.23 | towo^work | depends |
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| 13:27.14 | obiwahn | » ifup br1 |
| 13:27.15 | obiwahn | ioctl(TUNSETIFF): Device or resource busy |
| 13:27.17 | obiwahn | ifup: failed to bring up br1 |
| 13:27.23 | obiwahn | i have just installed a new server |
| 13:27.33 | obiwahn | and copied the settings from the old interfaces |
| 13:27.40 | towo^work | where and how is br1 configured |
| 13:27.49 | obiwahn | infact it is the same file as the rack was moved in the place of the old one |
| 13:28.39 | obiwahn | now i have installed bridge-utils |
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| 13:46.31 | Strogg | 'lo 'lo |
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| 13:47.16 | Strogg | I'm trying to install synergy on buster and it seems like it's been removed. Is there another package or good substitute to use? |
| 13:48.03 | greycat | judd info synergy --release stretch |
| 13:48.04 | judd | Package synergy (x11, optional) in stretch/amd64: Share mouse, keyboard and clipboard over the network. Version: 1.4.16-2; Size: 714.4k; Installed: 3370k; Homepage: https://symless.com/synergy/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/synergy |
| 13:48.22 | greycat | (for people like me who have no idea what it *is* ... now we know) |
| 13:48.44 | annadane | what's the command to find a process by pid? |
| 13:48.47 | Strogg | greycat: oh.. it's a keyboard and mouse sharing tool for multiple PCs |
| 13:49.16 | greycat | I've used x2x for that in the past. |
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| 13:49.37 | Strogg | greycat: you run it on two computers that are colocated and each have a screen, and you can move the mouse from one screen to another to determine which computer has keyboard/mouse focus |
| 13:49.50 | Strogg | essentially, it's a WM for PCs :) |
| 13:50.19 | greycat | I've used x2x for that in the past. |
| 13:50.34 | Strogg | what was really nice, is you could have a linux box and a windows box on the same desk, and not need two keyboards/mouses |
| 13:51.15 | greycat | Oh, your thing wasn't X-centric? It also worked with MS Windows? That would be a new and different feature, then. |
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| 13:56.40 | annadane | i guess what i mean is, is there a reverse pidof |
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| 13:57.18 | greycat | you... know the PID and you want the name of the process? ps -p "$pid" |
| 13:57.26 | annadane | thanks |
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| 14:01.25 | icypee | Hello |
| 14:01.36 | icypee | My wifi card requires non free firmware |
| 14:01.50 | icypee | How do I install it without internet? |
| 14:02.01 | greycat | sneakernet |
| 14:02.14 | icypee | What's that? |
| 14:02.23 | greycat | Or, in most cases, you perform the Debian install with the unofficial image instead. |
| 14:02.26 | greycat | !sneakernet |
| 14:02.27 | dpkg | sneakernet is probably "never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes", attributed to various people, including Andy Tanenbaum, Dennis Ritchie, and Warren Jackson, or generally file transfer accomplished via physical storage walked from host to host. |
| 14:02.50 | icypee | Ohhhh you mean the non free iso? |
| 14:02.56 | greycat | !firmware images |
| 14:02.56 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
| 14:03.06 | icypee | Thanks |
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| 14:09.09 | cstls | what's the bash command for running and refreshing another command every n number of seconds.. i can't remember. like if i wanted to have dig running every 30 seconds and refreshing itself |
| 14:09.26 | greycat | while sleep 30; do dig blah; done |
| 14:09.32 | cstls | ahh yes |
| 14:09.35 | cstls | thanks so much |
| 14:09.43 | greycat | but you were probably asking for watch(1) because everyone loves that piece of shit for some reason |
| 14:10.06 | cstls | well, i do think watch is what i did, but i should just do a simple script |
| 14:10.13 | cstls | thanks greycat |
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| 14:53.42 | quadrathoch2 | Strogg, because synergy went closed source, there is now a fork called barrier. but don't know if it's in buster |
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| 14:58.36 | greycat | ,v barrier |
| 14:58.37 | judd | Package: barrier on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 2.1.2+dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.1.2+dfsg-1; bullseye: 2.3.2+dfsg-1+b1; sid: 2.3.3+dfsg-1 |
| 14:58.38 | greycat | ,info barrier |
| 14:58.39 | judd | Package barrier (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: Share mouse, keyboard and clipboard over the network. Version: 2.1.2+dfsg-1; Size: 588.4k; Installed: 2583k; Homepage: https://github.com/debauchee/barrier/ |
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| 15:01.14 | Strogg | quadrathoch2: hrmmm coool. I"ll check it out |
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| 15:02.07 | greycat | dpkg, barrier is the open source fork of <synergy>, which switched to a proprietary license. |
| 15:02.07 | dpkg | okay, greycat |
| 15:02.56 | greycat | The URLs in the <synergy> factoid no longer work for me. Plain white page in google-chrome with uBlock origin. Viewing page source shows something about parking. |
| 15:03.55 | greycat | dpkg, synergy is also Went proprietary; see <barrier>. |
| 15:03.56 | dpkg | greycat: okay |
| 15:04.00 | greycat | !synergy |
| 15:04.00 | dpkg | Synergy is a client/server program for sharing a keyboard and mouse between multiple systems (Linux, Mac OS X, Windows). http://synergy-foss.org/wiki/User http://synergy-foss.org/ #synergy on irc.freenode.net. Went proprietary; see <barrier>. |
| 15:04.27 | greycat | the /topic of #synergy is ... interesting |
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| 15:14.14 | nvz | greycat: I need to try remember that "is also" bit rather than using search/replace to merely add things |
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| 15:15.57 | nvz | I used to think synergy was amazing.. back when I had more devices than screens.. and it still has its uses.. but there is nothing like having good screens around. |
| 15:16.21 | greycat | so I'm the only person that's never heard of this things... |
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| 15:16.45 | nvz | oh I used to have a hacked itouch even that I'd set next to my laptop and such and control it with synergy |
| 15:17.21 | nvz | now that I got this laptop with a 1080p screen, dock, and two 23" LTSP 1080p monitors to form a nice 3 headed setup.. its not really all that handy :P |
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| 15:18.45 | nvz | only thing cramping this workstation now is the lack of a good chair and the fact I cant connect up the monitors through software to auto rotate and adjust brighness.. |
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| 15:20.24 | nvz | well I /can/ I just havent found the hardware to do it yet.. pi zero and usb gpio are hard to find it seems.. limited qty available |
| 15:21.56 | nvz | goes to check the bts |
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| 15:24.05 | nvz | is it just me, or do these diff updates take f'n forever? |
| 15:24.30 | nvz | just downloading a f'n single packages file is so much faster than downloading a ton of small diffs |
| 15:24.59 | greycat | that sounds like some sort of #debian-next thing |
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| 15:25.01 | nvz | these pdiffs seem like a bad idea in practice to me |
| 15:25.15 | nvz | yeah, this is only on testing/unstable huh? |
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| 15:25.57 | nvz | if this is to become a new standard thing, I should probably get to bitchin in the right places cause it doesnt seem like a good thing to me :D |
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| 15:27.47 | nvz | I really just want this machine back to buster but I'd gotten this ssd in here in unknown condition with a machine that had windows.. and I've been using it awhile now with encrypted lvm and I really just dont think thrashing it with a reinstall to encrypted lvm is a good idea |
| 15:28.31 | nvz | any advice on that issue? like perhaps how to avoid rewriting all the random data again or such? |
| 15:28.35 | quadrathoch2 | why wouldn't it be a good idea? |
| 15:28.52 | quadrathoch2 | nvz isn't there an option to disable diff updates? |
| 15:28.53 | nvz | idk having the installer thrash it with random data is just gonna wear this ssd even more |
| 15:29.10 | quadrathoch2 | just not write random data? you can cancel it |
| 15:29.12 | nvz | quadrathoch2: or you mean why isnt the pdiff a good idea? |
| 15:29.36 | quadrathoch2 | nah reinstalling |
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| 15:30.39 | nvz | ah.. yeah.. idk I kept tellin myself I was just gonna order a new SSD for this machine and I havent yet.. and dont want it to crap out on me cause I put it through the woe of another install cause my dumb ass went to sid on the main machine I use for reasons I know better than to do |
| 15:31.05 | nvz | I just was reading upstream changelogs and wanted to see what some of the latest DEs looked like and how the features worked.. I should've just done it in a f'n vm :P |
| 15:31.26 | quadrathoch2 | yup lesson learned ^^ |
| 15:31.48 | nvz | I got two other machines here with buster on em.. the one on the desk in the livingroom I rarely even touch.. could've done it on that one even |
| 15:31.59 | nvz | instead I got my 3headed workstaion on f'n sid :-( |
| 15:32.13 | nvz | instead of that crappy single headed core2 usff machine |
| 15:33.26 | nvz | I'm still new to SSD and I'd sold a machine with just a 32GB 42mm m.2 sata disk in it with buster.. and shortly afterward it died.. like totally died.. it wasnt accessible at all anymore |
| 15:34.09 | nvz | and that shit kinda scared me.. cause things like the 2.5in 120GB ssd in this machine.. idk how long or hard it was beaten before I got it.. but I've put it through some paces.. and I worry |
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| 15:34.30 | nvz | I've used HDDs long enough I know what to expect.. with SSD I dont really |
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| 15:36.17 | nvz | I know I want to reinstall buster on here, I just dont know if thats a good idea given the old SSD |
| 15:36.33 | ratrace | nvz: check the smart data for age and TLB written |
| 15:37.27 | nvz | I see LBA written in smartctl -a |
| 15:37.57 | ratrace | right that's sectors written, so mul by sector size, 512 I'm guessin' |
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| 15:39.02 | nvz | I sent to termbin both hdparm -i and smartctl -a https://termbin.com/dw37 |
| 15:39.15 | Miles8of9 | perhaps SSD technology is too new for Linux... |
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| 15:39.25 | nvz | though I guess the hdparm -i is mostly redundant info |
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| 15:39.57 | nvz | idk I got ssd on most things now and its wonderful.. you get like 4x speed increase on most everything |
| 15:40.21 | nvz | the disks perform at actual bus speed |
| 15:40.35 | nvz | with HDD your performace on SATA3 is like SATA1 |
| 15:41.10 | ratrace | nvz: is that an SSD that sat on a shelf unused for long time? |
| 15:41.35 | nvz | ratrace: afaik it was a secondary windows machine that probably yes, sat on a shelf or in a drawer mostly |
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| 15:41.47 | ratrace | so that either is a very little used, but old SSD, or it friggin rolled through 32-bit count of LBA written |
| 15:42.03 | nvz | but since I've had it.. running Debian.. I've had it encrypted and nearly full all the time.. rotating stuff out to my external drive and such.. |
| 15:42.03 | ratrace | anyway, problem with SSDs is that if they sit unused, they deteriorate |
| 15:42.24 | nvz | really? I thought only happened with hard drives |
| 15:42.32 | ratrace | I'm not sure if that means permanent damage to cells, or they just lose memory, but powering it back on and zeroing out the entire drive would fix that |
| 15:42.47 | nvz | as the magnetic fields could weaken over time and the moving parts could rust or corrode |
| 15:43.10 | nvz | I figured SSD technology would shelve just fine |
| 15:43.41 | ratrace | https://www.extremetech.com/computing/205382-ssds-can-lose-data-in-as-little-as-7-days-without-power |
| 15:44.48 | nvz | hmm.. interesting |
| 15:45.01 | ratrace | nvz: you do have 100 reallocated sectors. that alone would make me toss it into the silicon heap and get a new one |
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| 15:46.36 | nvz | yeah my intention was to put an m.2 for the OS in this T440 and then a HDD in the sata bay where the ssd is now for /home or such.. like I have in the x240.. I got a 240G m.2 on / and a 1TB HDD on /home |
| 15:46.56 | nvz | I just haven't really had money to blow lately.. |
| 15:47.21 | nvz | I been putting off reinstalling buster on here thinkin it'd be best to wait until I got a new ssd |
| 15:47.28 | nvz | I just didnt know if my concern was really rational or not |
| 15:47.43 | nvz | I just assume that I'm better off leaving it alone until I can get a fresh ssd |
| 15:48.52 | nvz | this machine the T440 currently just has the 128G SSD in the hdd bay, nothing in the WWAN port where I could put a 42mm m.2 disk, and a 1TB USB3 disk |
| 15:49.14 | nvz | and as we can see.. the SSD in here is old.. and I've been using it roughly as I said :P |
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| 15:50.21 | nvz | I not only have it encrypted with all the system on it including /home and everything else.. but I also have 7 VM for each buster DE on it, and I even go so far as moving stuff off the external onto here while I work on it just to make it snappier :P |
| 15:50.30 | nvz | so I'm by no means treating it well :D |
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| 15:51.25 | nvz | and since its so small I have to keep clearing things out, moving stuff to the external, and making room to keep working.. its always near full |
| 15:52.00 | quadrathoch2 | Available Spare Threshold: 10% <- is this bad or good? oO |
| 15:52.09 | bigMouthCommie | You are in emergency mode. After logging in, type "journalctl -xb" .... i got this after a system restart. i restarted because it told me /home was unwritable. |
| 15:52.09 | nvz | I do however keep my apartment below 30C and I do typically put this machine to sleep when I leave.. I didnt know that could be a potential issue |
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| 15:52.43 | nvz | bigMouthCommie: ok, so did you by chance read what you just said? :D |
| 15:52.56 | nvz | bigMouthCommie: because I'd probably login and check the journal :P |
| 15:53.23 | bigMouthCommie | nvz this is a little above me. i don't know what i'm looking for |
| 15:53.34 | bigMouthCommie | but, of course, i did do that. |
| 15:53.45 | nvz | the reason why it thinks /home is unwritable :P |
| 15:54.04 | bigMouthCommie | nvz, that's actually unhelpful |
| 15:54.06 | nvz | bigMouthCommie: do you know your partition layout? |
| 15:54.20 | bigMouthCommie | uh... windows, boot, root, home, swap |
| 15:54.42 | nvz | ok.. well maybe do an lsblk, see which device is /home.. |
| 15:54.59 | nvz | if its mounted it should show there.. and means its READABLE at least if it mounted |
| 15:55.26 | nvz | then perhaps try fsck that device, or remount it rw.. |
| 15:55.57 | nvz | if it fscks clean, and remounts rw, you can then just hit the default target and get on with your life |
| 15:56.14 | nvz | mount -o remount,rw /home |
| 15:56.21 | nvz | if you dont know how to do that |
| 15:56.33 | nvz | or fsck /dev/sda2 or whatever device it is would probably be a good idea first :P |
| 15:56.57 | bigMouthCommie | sda has /boot/efi, a 16 M part i know nothing about, 100gb for win 10, 4g boot, 100g /, and my 62g /home is NOT ASSIGNED?? |
| 15:57.13 | nvz | is everything on one disk? |
| 15:57.35 | bigMouthCommie | yea. i'm running fsck on sda6 |
| 15:57.47 | bigMouthCommie | already found a corrupted orphan linked list |
| 15:58.24 | nvz | yeah you probably have it set to pass in fstab.. which means on boot it will need to pass a basic fsck or else it will error and mount read-only |
| 15:58.48 | nvz | and I didnt know systemd did that.. but I know that you can't login to a DE when you can't write your /home |
| 15:59.03 | nvz | guess its a good thing systemd detects the issue and drops you into single |
| 15:59.31 | nvz | otherwise users may just be confused why they login and it comes right back to the login screen :P |
| 15:59.39 | bigMouthCommie | thank you for the tip to run fsck. it just said "yes" to all the propmts, rebooted, and it looks like the systems coming up. |
| 16:00.06 | nvz | well all you needed to do was remount it rw and then systemctl default.. but w/e |
| 16:00.13 | nvz | rebooting works too :D |
| 16:00.35 | bigMouthCommie | my first machine was win98 |
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| 16:00.53 | nvz | you must be younger or poorer than me then :P |
| 16:01.01 | bigMouthCommie | probably both |
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| 16:01.23 | nvz | I think the first machine I had was Atari PC though I dont remember it.. earliest I recall is a TI 99/4a and an Apple IIC |
| 16:01.48 | nvz | I still vaguely remember our first 286 and us thinkin.. wow.. 10MB hdd.. how will we ever use all that space? |
| 16:02.02 | nvz | now you take a photo and its larger than that |
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| 16:06.23 | nvz | ratrace: yeah that temp stuff has me concerned now.. sounds to me like you need to not use SSD on laptops you're going to actually go mobile with |
| 16:07.21 | nvz | cause its not uncommon to toss a laptop in a bag, or take it in a car.. and out in summer weather... this article is suggesting that this heat could cause permanent damage |
| 16:08.26 | nvz | contemplates what one could possibly do in a laptop to address such issues |
| 16:08.42 | nvz | anything you'd do to shield it from heat when off would probably make it hotter when in use |
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| 16:11.04 | bigMouthCommie | solar-powered peltier |
| 16:11.23 | bigMouthCommie | built into case or bag. |
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| 16:12.15 | nvz | and while I dont understand all these values as pertains to SSD the fact that smart shows Perc_Avail_Resrvd_Space 99 sounds like its still reasonably healthy for its age |
| 16:12.35 | nvz | if that means as I think, that 99% of its overprovisioned space to handle failure is still available |
| 16:13.06 | bigMouthCommie | nvz are you a leo? |
| 16:13.15 | nvz | bigMouthCommie: wild guess? |
| 16:13.43 | bigMouthCommie | it's leo season and i have a playlist from a friend. she built it on spotify, i rebuilt it on youtube, and i wanted to share the love |
| 16:13.44 | *** join/#debian noosanon (~user@cust-102-130-215-79.zapfibra.co.ao) |
| 16:13.54 | bigMouthCommie | i was in the middle of ripping it from youtube when i ran into my disc error |
| 16:13.59 | nvz | bigMouthCommie: haha.. |
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| 16:14.22 | nvz | bigMouthCommie: I'm a purebread leo in fact.. just didnt know if you knew that or were making a wild or educated guess :P |
| 16:15.02 | nvz | my mothers birthday is today, my fathers is on monday, and mine is the following monday |
| 16:15.16 | Bushmaster | Hi, I understand, in Linux Filesystem Hierarchy Standard, /media will hold details about mount point, but when I do cd /media and then ls -l I do not see the mount point for my USB Adroid tablet, why is that? |
| 16:16.01 | bigMouthCommie | https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLhpTkuqNW6W6N6_9aWERiIFULOxhCC4VA |
| 16:16.05 | nvz | Bushmaster: because your android tablet is probably not on the VFS |
| 16:16.13 | nvz | Bushmaster: its probably using mtp |
| 16:16.21 | nvz | which is on gvfsd or such |
| 16:17.05 | nvz | Bushmaster: if it were a USB Mass storage device like a thumbdrive, it would be on the normal kernel level VFS |
| 16:17.08 | Bushmaster | nvz, I see, so in order for me to explore the file system of my Adroid tablet right from command line in my Debian desktop, is it possible at all? |
| 16:17.20 | edlou | yes with adb |
| 16:17.21 | nvz | Bushmaster: absolutely |
| 16:17.25 | nvz | thats one way |
| 16:17.36 | nvz | another is to connect gvfsd to the kernel |
| 16:18.09 | nvz | exposing all network, mtp, etc crap that gvfs does in userspace to the kernelspace |
| 16:18.21 | nvz | ,i gvfs-fuse |
| 16:18.23 | judd | Package gvfs-fuse (gnome, optional) in buster/amd64: userspace virtual filesystem - fuse server. Version: 1.38.1-5; Size: 31.2k; Installed: 69k; Homepage: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/gvfs |
| 16:18.31 | Bushmaster | nvz let me pastebin some stuff, I am learning the Linux File System and it is really interesting, freedom of exploring file is enormous |
| 16:18.57 | nvz | Bushmaster: yes when I teach linux stuff I like to start with that.. the everything is a file concept.. |
| 16:19.29 | nvz | helps I think for users of windows and such to understand the key differences of linux to first realize what the VFS is, how it works, and what all it includes and how to manipulate it |
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| 16:20.07 | nvz | from the Graphical Shell POV a lot of the VFS concepts are confusing to say the least.. especially on windows |
| 16:20.29 | nvz | learning the filesystem concepts in linux is I think by far one of the most useful things |
| 16:20.54 | nvz | I praise apps like pianobar which have fifo interfaces to make coding around them a f'n breeze using simple file operations |
| 16:21.13 | nvz | I really think more things should do this kinda stuff |
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| 16:22.10 | Bushmaster | nvz https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZJyPxSV8FG/ |
| 16:22.38 | nvz | Bushmaster: as for the solution to your issue, its a matter of how you wanna work and where you wanna do it.. the adb way will require you to not only install and use adb's interfaces but requires you to enable developer mode on android and enable USB Debugging |
| 16:23.05 | nvz | the gvfs-fuse method however makes it very natural like and doesnt require any changes on the android side |
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| 16:23.24 | nvz | however the default "mount points" for gvfs-fuse are rather atrocious |
| 16:23.24 | Bushmaster | well, what I understood so far is hierarchy is critical, so you start with root (the mother of all children), then bin, then boot, then dev and carried on, I can see total of 24 items in root |
| 16:23.36 | nvz | often helps to use symlinks to sane locations with gvfs-fuse |
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| 16:25.07 | nvz | Bushmaster: yes well you also have to keep in mind that FHS is a freedesktop.org standard.. its not a golden rule or anything.. its just a standard which people adopt and its subject to a lot of site- and distro- specific stuff |
| 16:25.16 | Bushmaster | nvz, in Debian file manager I see this mtp://[usb:007,010]/ which basically is the path for my Phone Storage as showing the main right hand pane in the file manager GUI window but I have never seen the path like this mtp://[usb:007,010]/ before |
| 16:25.28 | nvz | Bushmaster: thats why the FHS is vague in certain areas.. to allow for both standardization as well as customization |
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| 16:26.21 | nvz | Bushmaster: yes the mtp:// smb:// ftp:// all that fancy protocol shit is done in userspace by something like gvfsd to connect stuff the kernel doesnt do natively to your GUI |
| 16:26.31 | nvz | Bushmaster: the shell doesnt see any of that naturally because it's talking to the kernel |
| 16:26.36 | Bushmaster | yes nvz yes I read that on the book I am reading to learn Linux, it says all UNIX like system will have by and large very similar File Standard Hierarchy but not exactly the same |
| 16:26.37 | icypee | Hey I installed the non free version and I still can't connect to the internet |
| 16:27.11 | nvz | Bushmaster: are you in fact using gvfsd? pretty much GNOME, MATE, Cinnamon, XFCE, etc.. do.. |
| 16:27.16 | icypee | Is it supposed to do it automatically or am I supposed to do it manually? |
| 16:27.21 | nvz | KDE uses kio slaves |
| 16:27.49 | nvz | icypee: you mean you used an installer image which included nonfree firmware and you're trying to connect using wifi? |
| 16:28.00 | icypee | Yeah |
| 16:28.03 | nvz | icypee: did the wifi work during the install? |
| 16:28.08 | icypee | Mhm |
| 16:28.22 | nvz | then yes, if it was setup and used during install, it should've been automatic |
| 16:28.46 | icypee | It still won't work post install |
| 16:28.51 | Bushmaster | nvz, I do not know what is gvfsd as I am new to learning the file system hierarchy, the book says navigate the system and go into file systems and explore files, most file sin etc the book said are text ASCII and book wanted me to explore with file and less commands and I am enjoying it |
| 16:29.09 | nvz | icypee: we can of course debug it, but you'll need to explain a bit more.. what DE or network framework you're using.. what you're trying, whats happening.. etc |
| 16:29.24 | icypee | I'm using no de |
| 16:29.30 | icypee | Just tty |
| 16:29.38 | Bushmaster | nvz, now I am getting ambitious cos I plugged up the tablet and wanted to explore my Android file system and got stuck so I thought I come and visit you folks, but it may be too advance for me because whatever you typing above is bit advance |
| 16:30.39 | nvz | Bushmaster: gvfsd is a daemon that runs along with your user session that provides a bunch of high-level support for non-tradional filesystems.. it can connect to samba, webdav, ftp, ssh, mtp, etc.. and expose that to the GUI programs through a messaging bus.. it all happens way above the kernel's purview |
| 16:31.05 | Bushmaster | nvz, the book is just giving me the feelings of freedom of Linux, and I think the book will delve details later chapters |
| 16:31.10 | nvz | Bushmaster: simply installing gvfs-fuse however provides a userspace driver that connects all of gvfs to the kernel so it can be aware of these things |
| 16:31.53 | nvz | Bushmaster: yes, well I'm usually always interested in discussing the basics at length. :P |
| 16:32.15 | nvz | reminds me of simpler times helping people who really wanna learn, with the fundamentals :D |
| 16:32.37 | icypee | When I try to scan it tells me my wifi card doesn't support scanning |
| 16:32.40 | nvz | now I'm wrestling with all the new changes feelin like a damned idiot anymore with ipv6, systemd, etc.. |
| 16:32.54 | Bushmaster | well, I will leave it for now then, cos it sounds too technical and me with little knowledge, it may not help me to learn much, I also noticed, when I am in boot directory and use less command to see the content of linux kernle, i get a screen full with gibberish codes |
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| 16:33.14 | nvz | icypee: you mean doing iwlist wlp3s0 scan or such? |
| 16:33.49 | nvz | icypee: first thing you need to make sure you're using the correct device name and that it actually supports wifi extensions.. you can easily see this by just doing plain ol "iwconfig" |
| 16:34.15 | Bushmaster | nvz, I am sure I can learn a lot from you while read the book from chapter to chapter, I am enjoying reading it for sure |
| 16:34.27 | nvz | icypee: next if you are using the right device name and it shows wireless extensions, you need to make sure its not rfkill blocked in any way, and then make sure its in the proper state |
| 16:34.45 | nvz | sometimes just trying a dhclient or something on the if will knock it into the right state |
| 16:35.06 | nvz | not if somehow it got into monitor mode though :P |
| 16:35.54 | nvz | icypee: also probably wouldnt hurt to look over the journal see whats actually happening when you do it |
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| 16:36.30 | icypee | NVM I got it working |
| 16:36.37 | icypee | Had to follow the wiki |
| 16:36.41 | nvz | :P |
| 16:37.26 | nvz | yeah RTFM is usually a good thing |
| 16:37.33 | nvz | not always though.. |
| 16:37.59 | nvz | grumbles about inclusion of O'Reillys Using Samba in samba-doc |
| 16:39.21 | nvz | I'd been reading that years ago, trying to do some fancy logging.. and lets just say I argued with every and anyone over it.. heh.. the samba devs just flat out said.. this is wrong.. not only is it wrong, its not possible.. samba would have to be entirely rewritten from scratch to work this way.. :P |
| 16:39.45 | nvz | and the maintainer said they werent gonna stop including the document.. blah blah blah :-/ |
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| 16:44.26 | Bushmaster | nvz, can i ask you something, I know the question may sound pretty rudimentary, but I keep hammering this question, you know the computers in officer, people go and log in, by typing their user name and password, I think these computers (100 or more of them) are called work stations, and when they log in its windows OS. My question, is, does Linux server is enabling them to log in, to these windows work station or its windows server working |
| 16:44.26 | Bushmaster | at the backened? |
| 16:44.58 | RadoS | can be both |
| 16:45.04 | greycat | In almost all companies, it's a Windows server controlling the authentication. |
| 16:45.19 | greycat | But you'd have to ask your local IT department. |
| 16:46.16 | Bushmaster | okay thanks, so the next question, when I read Linux servers are most popular, in what aspects Linux servers are popular then? |
| 16:46.39 | greycat | Web servers, mail servers, DNS servers.... |
| 16:46.53 | greycat | In a local context, file servers. |
| 16:48.08 | Bushmaster | web servers as in like web applications, for example online banking, eBay etc? |
| 16:48.44 | greycat | Sure. All of it. |
| 16:49.11 | Bushmaster | thanks greycat |
| 16:50.05 | greycat | https://news.netcraft.com/archives/category/web-server-survey/ |
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| 16:51.15 | nvz | Bushmaster: it all comes down to a preference of the people implementing it.. IBM years ago sold off their personal computer business and embraced linux and issues pamphlets and crap calling IBM the universal business adapter.. and started focusing on how to deploy solutions rather than products.. linux /can/ do all that.. but some people prefer to do things on windows for any number of reasons |
| 16:51.46 | Bushmaster | so what I gathered from this important conversation is, universities and offices workstations where people have username and password and then log in to windows machine to do their work and log out, the server behind it is mostly windows server, on the other hand, web applications for example online banking, dynamic database driven websites, for example e-bay, Amazon, Paypal etc may be Linux based server |
| 16:51.55 | nvz | Bushmaster: I think the large marketshare of linux on servers these days is influenced by things like cost.. windows you gotta pay by the lisc for each machine so.. |
| 16:52.06 | greycat | You said offices, not "universities and offices". |
| 16:52.25 | greycat | At universities, I won't even try to guess how many use Windows backends. |
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| 16:54.15 | Bushmaster | greycat, I am just trying to get the picture, because I am doing course in web application development, Java, Linux, nothing on windows, other than DBMS SQL server 2016 and ADO and ASP . NET framework |
| 16:55.45 | Bushmaster | nvz, so there is good job prospects on Linux based system administration and web applications? I am not learning much on windows hence I worry, do I need to learn WIndows Server at all |
| 16:56.26 | greycat | #debian is not the place to ask that |
| 16:56.50 | nvz | Bushmaster: well if you go the windows server route, you'd probably have to continually update certifications and yeah its becomming less popular. |
| 16:58.05 | Bushmaster | thanks nvz and thanks greycat too, and sorry for off track inquiry |
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| 17:00.38 | Bushmaster | just checked that link greycat very data rich, so Apache is leading and I understood Apache is Linux based Server |
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| 17:01.50 | nvz | meh.. I think most people jumped off the apache bandwagon these days |
| 17:02.11 | nvz | it knocked me for a loop when they started doing split config then everyone was doing conf.d type crap |
| 17:02.34 | nvz | I like lighttpd now, its simpler.. and a lot of folk went to nginx or such |
| 17:03.11 | greycat | I switched from apache to nginx and I'm very glad I did. |
| 17:03.51 | nvz | I havent even tried nginx yet.. I tried lighttpd and I liked the simplicity.. I got 5 sites on 5 different ports all in one config, its just little fuss |
| 17:04.18 | nvz | the config file even having 5 sites in it is very small and clean.. everything in one place |
| 17:05.21 | greycat | I greatly prefer a separate file for each virtual host. |
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| 17:06.15 | Bushmaster | nvz, I just gone into proc and when I do ls -l it runs all the files, is there a way to see the files as in page by page or screen by scree in pause, I think something one can do in MS DOS, i think command is dir *.* / p I wonder something is available in Linux |
| 17:06.32 | nvz | I would if I were doing entirely seperate stuff for more production environment.. but for my simple personal needs I just wanna open one file and have it all in one place so I dont have to think about which thing I am looking for when I want to change something related to how my webserver is working on my network |
| 17:06.39 | greycat | Bushmaster: ls -l | less |
| 17:06.50 | Bushmaster | greycat let me try |
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| 17:09.09 | Bushmaster | greycat, after first screen I see a semi colon, how do I go to next screen? |
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| 17:10.17 | greycat | it's a colon, not a semicolon, and try pressing keys |
| 17:10.37 | greycat | enter, space bar, arrow keys, page up, page down, b, ... |
| 17:10.57 | Bushmaster | sorry its colon, I been doing lot of java coding and my brain just think terminating statements of semi colon all the time |
| 17:12.35 | Bushmaster | excellent Page Up and Page Down do just fine, thanks greycat |
| 17:12.49 | greycat | and q to quit |
| 17:13.12 | Bushmaster | greycat, yes I got that, its same for less command I learnt from that book |
| 17:13.37 | greycat | It's *literally* the same less command. That's what " | less" does. |
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| 17:14.40 | Bushmaster | wow, did not connect that, and I was thinking how to see page by page, but now I see how you meant, Linux is really fun |
| 17:15.12 | Bushmaster | that bar, what you call it? just a bar or it has name? |
| 17:15.16 | greycat | pipe |
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| 17:15.39 | Bushmaster | right okay, thanks, I need to write that down , thanks again greycat |
| 17:16.31 | Bushmaster | oh just one more thing, the book says commands are always in this format COMMAND - OPTIONS ARGUMENT |
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| 17:16.57 | greycat | "always" is too strong a word. |
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| 17:19.30 | Ede|Popede | Bushmaster: press 'h' and see why less is more than more ;) |
| 17:20.17 | Ede|Popede | and what i really like there: they start with q and h, the two things i want to know from the beginning |
| 17:20.33 | Bushmaster | greycat, no i was trying to find out pipe and then less comes under option or argument |
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| 17:21.06 | greycat | Then your undestanding is VERY wrong, and it's good that you asked. A pipeline connects two separate commands. Each command has its own options/arguments. |
| 17:21.25 | greycat | In the case of "ls -l | less", one command is "ls -l" which is the "ls" command with the "-l" option. |
| 17:21.31 | greycat | The "less" command is not given any options or arguments. |
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| 17:22.17 | Bushmaster | Ede|Popede, yes the book mentioned less is more because the more command in the past did not server page by page screen |
| 17:22.45 | Bushmaster | greycat, thanks for clarifying it, so PIPE is way to join two commands, wow, the book did not cover that yet |
| 17:23.22 | Ede|Popede | connect stdout of A to stdin of B, that's the basic idea |
| 17:24.00 | Ede|Popede | small specialized tools for a specific job, but a lot of them |
| 17:24.20 | Bushmaster | thanks folks, its lot to learn, but its not boring, its fun learning Linux commands in my opinion I am learning from the book and I have lot of chapters to read |
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| 17:24.45 | Ede|Popede | 1. all software sucks. 2. everything is a file. 3. ... lemme remember |
| 17:26.11 | Ede|Popede | Bushmaster, tip. i did this long ago, distros were MUCH smaller than these days, also less in the bin directories. these days i'd probably go through the packages like gsdutils, util-linux, coreutils and the like. |
| 17:26.34 | Ede|Popede | just to have a bit of a structure and smaller peaces to digest. |
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| 17:27.05 | Ede|Popede | and it should be bsdutils (if they're still used) |
| 17:27.47 | greycat | bsdutils exists but has only ... 5 programs in it |
| 17:27.57 | Bushmaster | Ede|Popede, the book mentioned bin directory holds binary which I am not sure what it means, but I tried to see the content with less commands from bin directory and will try again but now I need to go |
| 17:28.42 | greycat | In this context, "binary" means a program, usually a compiled ("non-text") one, but that's antiquated; many of the programs in /usr/bin or /bin are actually text files holding scripts. |
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| 17:30.04 | Ede|Popede | and 342 symlinks in /usr/bin right now here Oo |
| 17:30.06 | nvz | Bushmaster: the pipe takes the output of the left command and puts it into the input of the right command |
| 17:30.23 | nvz | is being text-directionist? :P |
| 17:30.39 | Ede|Popede | textist? |
| 17:31.17 | Ede|Popede | the interface wars, episode 1: textists vs iconeers |
| 17:31.53 | Bushmaster | nvz, I like the pipe but when you in pipe, unlike MS DOS, you cant just type CTR+C to get out and freeze the screen right there and type commands, you have to press Q to get out, scroll to find the file you want to view, so it comes with some element of hassle |
| 17:31.56 | nvz | throws a | at Ede|Popede |
| 17:32.28 | nvz | Bushmaster: Ctrl+Z |
| 17:32.44 | Bushmaster | let me try again nvz |
| 17:32.47 | nvz | Bushmaster: puts the current task into the background, returns you to the shell |
| 17:33.09 | nvz | can resume background tasks by bringing them into the foreground with "fg" |
| 17:33.43 | nvz | see also & (background a command), bg, and nohup |
| 17:33.48 | greycat | Bushmaster: you might want to try "ls -l | less -X" and if you like that, consider putting "export LESS=X" in your profile |
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| 17:34.30 | nvz | then there is of course $() subshells and xargs.. and a whole slew of other things :P |
| 17:34.42 | greycat | Do not teach people xargs :( |
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| 17:34.53 | greycat | god, so much horror |
| 17:35.00 | nvz | heh, I havent used it in ages personally |
| 17:35.14 | nvz | dont really see any need for it anymore |
| 17:35.30 | nvz | I still use cut, tr, and a lot of tools I probably dont need anymore |
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| 17:35.52 | greycat | It has uses, legit ones sometimes, but it also comes with a *massive* pitfall/caveat: it's completely fucking broken for arbitrary text input, such as filenames. |
| 17:36.00 | nvz | I'm just too lazy to keep all the lil quriks of BRE vs PCRE and which command uses which and crap |
| 17:36.40 | nvz | you even have issues like how with ssh -p is port, but with scp -P is port.. and how chmod/chown have -r and -R |
| 17:36.42 | Bushmaster | nvz, I like this CTR+Z realy make sense to me, greycat I will try but now I need to go thanks a lot for all the helps |
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| 17:36.54 | nvz | these lil inconsistancies making shit a pita to remember |
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| 17:37.06 | greycat | ctrl-Z suspends a process. It's still there, waiting to continue running. |
| 17:37.32 | greycat | If you go down the Job Control route (ctrl-Z, fg, bg) you need to learn how to manage all of that. |
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| 17:37.39 | nvz | at least until it terminates or recieves a hup from the terminal |
| 17:38.43 | Ede|Popede | a pitfall coming for dos was their ^D against ^Z iirc |
| 17:38.57 | diogenes_ | Hello guys, does anyone have a clue why my 3g network refuse to autoconnect when ipv6 is set to automativ but it will autoconnect when ipv6 is set to ignore? |
| 17:39.09 | greycat | Fortunately, almost nobody knows MS-DOS these days, so we don't have to un-teach DOS habits. |
| 17:39.45 | diogenes_ | automatic* |
| 17:40.42 | ndegruchy | hmm, any particular reason why grub (et al) would be held back by dpkg/apt? |
| 17:41.11 | nvz | there are lots of particular reasons, and I'm sure the package manager is aware of them |
| 17:41.14 | greycat | In almost every case, it's because you added some third party or future-release packages. |
| 17:41.28 | ndegruchy | I have no external repositories |
| 17:41.32 | ndegruchy | just buster and security |
| 17:41.32 | greycat | !bat |
| 17:41.33 | dpkg | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 17:41.36 | nvz | specifically an apt policy type command |
| 17:41.41 | ndegruchy | okay |
| 17:42.11 | nvz | I'd attempted to replace the apt-cache with apt in that factoid but its age locked, and got no response from don on the matter :P |
| 17:43.02 | greycat | nobody likes apt |
| 17:44.07 | nvz | oh, cmon now greycat .. don't tell me there isn't something about "WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts. |
| 17:44.14 | nvz | that just warms your heart to it :D |
| 17:46.06 | ndegruchy | https://paste.debian.net/1158207/ |
| 17:46.10 | ndegruchy | There we go |
| 17:46.29 | nvz | I've mostly only adopted it because the new tool unifies several old ones and the syntax is simpler.. and I think it'd be beneficial to change documentation with older commands cause it confuses people why its different commands.. and idk if at some point the old tools may become deprecated and unmaintained |
| 17:46.46 | nvz | I still use net-tools though cause ip still confounds me a bit :D |
| 17:47.05 | nvz | but the apt transition is a fairly smooth one for most things |
| 17:49.21 | nvz | ndegruchy: try a full-upgrade and/or specifying a package like grub-efi-amd64 which I imagine will automatically select and pull in the others |
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| 17:49.43 | nvz | cause there is no actual errors in what you just pasted |
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| 17:50.25 | ndegruchy | Hmm, seems like the full-upgrade wants to remove the grub-*-signed package... |
| 17:50.38 | nvz | yeah guess thats why then |
| 17:51.06 | nvz | things like dist-upgrade and full-upgrade loosen up the policy apt follows allowing it to do more things.. like remove things as needed and such |
| 17:51.32 | nvz | so just a normal upgrade is keeping them back because the operation would result in removal of something |
| 17:51.34 | greycat | I don't know why it wants to remove the -signed package, though. |
| 17:52.04 | greycat | The following packages will be upgraded: |
| 17:52.04 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:52.04 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:52.52 | mutante | greycat: security issue :/ |
| 17:52.53 | greycat | There's definitely something different about *your* system that would cause that to behave differently. I just don't know what it is. |
| 17:53.20 | ndegruchy | well, lemme back up and reboot to see if grub is still working |
| 17:53.30 | greycat | mutante: ndegruchy is complaining that on their system, "apt upgrade" wants to remove one of those instead of upgrading it |
| 17:53.41 | nvz | yeah I'm not in the mood to try figure it out.. if they wanna post more output from a system having the issue.. including the apt policy output of the -signed packages in question, and a full-upgrade or manual specification of packages for upgrade/install output.. we can look at it |
| 17:54.08 | mutante | greycat: oh, sorry. unrelated |
| 17:54.21 | nvz | but I dont really feel like running shit down on the tracker and UDD and crap to figure out whats going on when I can't reproduce the issue |
| 17:57.10 | nvz | I seem to be using just grub-pc not grub efi on all my machines |
| 17:57.30 | greycat | *nod* that's not uncommon, still |
| 17:57.38 | greycat | mine are a mix |
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| 17:58.22 | nvz | I havent seen any reasons that compel me enough to move to efi stuff more than necessary and introduce new possible problems I gotta learn to troubleshoot |
| 17:58.53 | greycat | In my case, it's "the machine came with windows and UEFI and I need to keep windows available for dual-booting". |
| 17:59.04 | ndegruchy | Well, the world failed to end when I rebooted. Grub displayed like it always does and I was able to decrypt my root volume, so all is good |
| 17:59.30 | nvz | ndegruchy: heh. you live on the edge |
| 17:59.55 | ndegruchy | I'm used to it from Arch :D |
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| 18:00.50 | ndegruchy | Also, I'm far from helpless when a system fails to boot. I don't like fixing it, but I have self-inflicted experience to work off of :D |
| 18:01.24 | nvz | my machines give me the option to legacy boot so I do.. as I havent touched windows in a VERY long time |
| 18:03.30 | nvz | yeah grub still confounds me for the most part.. I really liked the simplicity of lilo |
| 18:04.01 | nvz | I had a good handle on lilo, but it just became simpler to just use grub |
| 18:04.52 | nvz | I can rescue grub from a chroot most of the time, but as for much customization or using the grub prompt, I havent a clue |
| 18:06.41 | greycat | I can add boot parameters, but when it comes to the actual setup and the device naming and stuff... *shudder*. |
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| 18:09.12 | nvz | yeah I grasped lilo and syslinux type things.. was actually considering setting up pxelinux boot menu on my router again.. since I got 3 docks for my thinkpads layin around.. its handy to have various live and installer things available on teh network for booting |
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| 18:10.27 | nvz | I so don't understand modern bootloaders, when I had android and debian on my orangepi lite and debian crapped out.. I did some really wild kexec crap to boot back into debian from android. |
| 18:10.42 | nvz | uboot just scares the shit outta me |
| 18:10.45 | nvz | :P |
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| 18:14.57 | nvz | at one point years ago after I'd built a Socket 775 P4 system with a 2tb drive all my laptops had broken hdd and I was too broke to fix em so I was just clickin them into a dock to pxe boot to ram and use a network drive.. was a bit convenient actually.. less heat, longer battery life, and when I wanted to change something I only needed to change the image on the boot server and reboot any machine for changes |
| 18:15.03 | nvz | to take effect |
| 18:16.48 | nvz | now hdds are so cheap you can get 8-10TB for under US$200 and 1-4TB for like $50 or less |
| 18:17.06 | netvixtra | but they are painfully slow |
| 18:18.06 | nvz | yeah.. I'm still learning the SSD stuff.. that article we just talked about earlier with potential temps and offline times effecting SSD data retention really suprised me |
| 18:18.48 | nvz | I had no idea how sensitive they can potentially be.. I knew they were more disposable convenience items.. |
| 18:19.02 | nvz | which is why I dont own any really large ones cause its not worth the money |
| 18:19.12 | nvz | for something I'm gonna have to throw out and replace more often |
| 18:19.14 | netvixtra | they have solved the temperatur problems, they just throttle performance |
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| 18:19.21 | netvixtra | They need cooling |
| 18:19.55 | nvz | well its not that... this article suggests that even storing them offline in most conditions will ruin them |
| 18:20.21 | nvz | suggests that you basically need to keep em between 30-40C at all times, when running or not running |
| 18:20.23 | edlou | nvz whats worse is these "aftermarket heatsinks" |
| 18:20.37 | edlou | where it is lowering the temperature of the ram instead of just the controller |
| 18:20.58 | nvz | and in a laptop.. in summertime.. or hell even in my apt with the AC on and the computer off.. |
| 18:21.04 | edlou | and then there is the enthusiast/elite community which is watercooling their flash which is just the most cringe thing to do |
| 18:21.21 | nvz | trying to keep an SSD between 30-40C all the time even when not using it.. thats no simple task |
| 18:21.34 | netvixtra | Watercooling super fast M.2 NVME's are the only way |
| 18:21.47 | nvz | idk I see no need to cool any of the ones I got |
| 18:21.56 | nvz | their temps are perfect with no heatsinks or cooling |
| 18:22.03 | edlou | netvixtra: it's trivial, the controller at lower temp will perform better, the flash cells at lower temperatures wont |
| 18:22.20 | netvixtra | You buy a 970 Pro and expect 3500 MB/s read |
| 18:22.26 | nvz | last I checked this 2.5in 128G sata ssd in this machine it was 31C which seems to be perfect temp for them |
| 18:22.28 | netvixtra | but you only get 1000-1200 MB/s |
| 18:22.35 | netvixtra | because you don't have proper cooling |
| 18:22.48 | edlou | minimal aircooling keeps it within temperature range of optimal operation |
| 18:23.07 | nvz | these laptops I got they dont get hot at all really.. I can use em all day and the fans never even turn on at all |
| 18:24.55 | nvz | my cpu internal core temp is 40C, my SSD 30C right now, fan 0rpm.. got three screens going, wifi, bt, external hdd, encryption all the way around.. browser open..etc.. and its not sweating one bit |
| 18:25.22 | nvz | typically even on battery with all this, I'm only drawing like 5w |
| 18:26.03 | nvz | though I cant power the video switch in this dock on battery, the extra displays gotta be plugged into the laptop |
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| 18:39.39 | Azrael_- | hi |
| 18:40.56 | Azrael_- | i've got 1k log files and want to delete all files older than 30 days. how can i select those files best? can't find any matching options in find. |
| 18:41.08 | greycat | find . -type f -mtime +30 -print |
| 18:41.14 | greycat | change -print to -delete if you like the result |
| 18:41.18 | Azrael_- | thx |
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| 18:56.03 | mutantturkey | hello, i have set UsePAM Yes" in my sshd config, i have rebooted sshd, and my pam config (/etc/pam.d/sshd)includes "session required pam_loginuid.so" |
| 18:56.26 | mutantturkey | However, when i cat /proc/self/uid_map, the 3rd field (auid) it's set to -1 |
| 18:56.31 | mutantturkey | so it doesn't seem like sshd is using pam |
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| 19:06.06 | mutantturkey | though clearly lsof shows libpam is loaded in sshd |
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| 19:26.00 | annadane | under what circumstances is it a good idea to chmod your /home to something else? |
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| 19:26.29 | greycat | when you're paranoid |
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| 19:27.19 | frunks | to prevent users from viewing each others stuff |
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| 19:28.02 | frunks | or allow something like apache public_html |
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| 19:28.33 | greycat | "i dont want them to steal my aliaseses!!!: |
| 19:31.40 | annadane | i guess the real reason i'm asking is a) i'm not on a multi user machine so i'm not worried about other users b) i'm just wondering if putting ssh keys in /home with default permissions of /home is a good idea or not |
| 19:31.59 | greycat | It's fine. The private key is created with 600 permissions. |
| 19:32.13 | Kyros | yeah ssh wont even run without proper permissions |
| 19:32.25 | mutante | annadane: its /home vs /home/.ssh the latter should not be open |
| 19:32.41 | Kyros | well you cant use keys without proper permissions |
| 19:32.45 | greycat | .ssh at 755 is fine too. |
| 19:33.14 | greycat | sshd only enforces permission strictness when considering whether to trust the public keys listed in your .ssh/authorized_keys file |
| 19:36.54 | RoyK | $HOME/.ssh/id_rsa (or similar for other ciphers) really shouldn't be 644, though ;) |
| 19:37.07 | greycat | Correct. And it's created with 600 as I said before. |
| 19:37.48 | tarzeau | if i have an rtsp that i want to share with others, it'll kill my bandwith, is there a trick? i could setup a proxy rtsp proxy but i couldn't find anthing packaged... |
| 19:38.34 | greycat | I have no idea what an rtsp is, but I'll assume it's a large file. Host it on your web server, which presumably has lots of outgoing bandwidth. Then you only have to upload it one time. |
| 19:39.08 | tarzeau | video streaming (ip cameras use that) |
| 19:39.14 | RoyK | realtime streaming protocol |
| 19:39.18 | tarzeau | squid is only http, but i found something crtmpserver-apps |
| 19:40.01 | RoyK | usually the media stream(s) are sent over rtp, though |
| 19:40.14 | RoyK | with rtcp controlling it |
| 19:40.44 | tarzeau | RoyK: aha, but then mplayer/vlc and the like (homebridge.io) are wrong calling it rtsp://ip/stream |
| 19:41.12 | RoyK | tarzeau: no, rtsp has all the data describing how to use the other protocols |
| 19:41.15 | tarzeau | RoyK: and a grep on /etc/services doesn't show up rtp, only rtsp for me 554/tcp+udp |
| 19:41.25 | tarzeau | aha, then i have no idea :) |
| 19:41.59 | RoyK | tarzeau: you can start out here ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Time_Streaming_Protocol |
| 19:42.18 | tarzeau | RoyK: thanks, but no thanks :) |
| 19:44.33 | annadane | if i haven't added anything specific to .ssh, does any system component use it? |
| 19:44.39 | annadane | in other words can it be removed safely |
| 19:44.59 | greycat | Is this a trick question? It's used by ssh and by sshd. |
| 19:45.14 | greycat | Why would you WANT to remove it? |
| 19:45.49 | RoyK | because it's unknown and thus scary? ;) |
| 19:46.34 | sney | ~/.ssh contents are generated on the fly by ssh, so if you remove it, you'll probably just get a new one the next time you run ssh. |
| 19:46.34 | apt | sney: okay |
| 19:46.53 | annadane | ignore me, i'm being particularly stupid today |
| 19:46.57 | greycat | You'll have to re-affirm the host keys for every site again. |
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| 20:06.22 | abff | where in the debian system does power management of the ethernet NIC happen? I just calibrated powertop and discovered my ethernet nic is using more power than my backlight, and it's never been plugged in this entire time! |
| 20:06.53 | sney | usually that's at the driver level, or acpi |
| 20:07.20 | sney | it's probably a negligible amount of power, but if you don't ever use the wired nic, you can likely disable it in the bios. |
| 20:07.25 | abff | well lets assume the driver works... how does one control acpi |
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| 20:07.31 | abff | sney: it was the top of the list |
| 20:07.46 | abff | I even had firefox idle in the background |
| 20:07.49 | abff | with 5 tabs open |
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| 20:09.00 | abff | sney: I just echo 1 >> sysfs/yada/nic/remove and the power consumption dropped by a third |
| 20:09.42 | abff | but I'd still like to be able to turn it on without having to reboot and change a bios setting |
| 20:09.45 | sney | if you look at the output for /sbin/modinfo for your ethernet driver, there may be an option you can enable for lower power usage. but again, if you aren't using it, disabling the device entirely is the best option |
| 20:10.46 | abff | sney: I'd like to power it down and power it back on, manually, if acpi and the driver are too dumb to keep it quiet |
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| 20:20.35 | jhutchins | I've disabled a couple of sites from my Apache server, and now certbot is failing on one of the sites that is no longer registered, but is not in sites-enabled. |
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| 20:28.51 | sney | jhutchins: you may need to disable it from /etc/letsencrypt as well |
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| 20:33.21 | jhutchins | sney: Yeah, how do I do that? |
| 20:33.43 | jhutchins | sney: The DNS entry for the site that's getting the error is expired. |
| 20:34.20 | sney | I don't remember but iirc it's pretty clear if you poke around in those dirs |
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| 20:39.07 | tarzeau | if i wanted all linux kernel messaged during boot time be processed by lolcat, how would i go about that? |
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| 21:01.56 | tarzeau | am i the only one to use: $SHELL | lolcat ? (how dangerous is it?) |
| 21:02.16 | tarzeau | and why, if there's a c and cc implementation of lolcat, only the slowest one is in debian? https://github.com/n-ham/lolcat-cc |
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| 21:02.23 | Bushmaster | nvz, `Hi just realized that CTR+Z does not really freeze the screen where file is located |
| 21:05.13 | greycat | ctrl-z sends the suspend signal to the shell's foreground job. This suspends that job. You have to use fg or bg to un-suspend it. |
| 21:05.53 | greycat | It does *not* do the equivalent of "terminate my pager and leave the contents on the screen and let me type shell commands again". |
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| 21:06.32 | jaggz | how do you tell apt "ok, go ahead with those.. yeah.." Depends: libmbedtls12 (= 2.16.0-1) but 2.16.0-dmo1~bpo9+1 is to be installed |
| 21:06.54 | greycat | !remove dmm |
| 21:06.54 | dpkg | If you want to remove the packages from deb-multimedia.org and reinstall the packages from Debian repositories, one could do this: dpkg --remove --force-depends $(aptitude search '?narrow(?version(CURRENT),?origin(Unofficial Multimedia Packages))' --disable-columns -F%p); remove the dmm repository from sources.list; apt-get update; apt-get install -f; install the still missing packages which were removed in the former process ... |
| 21:07.30 | jaggz | oh is that this problem? I think I can't escape the need for mm |
| 21:07.35 | jaggz | thanks greycat |
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| 21:08.33 | jaggz | can I tell it I approve those to-be-installed versions? |
| 21:08.46 | greycat | It's not asking for your PERMISSION. It's saying "I cannot". |
| 21:09.10 | jaggz | hmm |
| 21:10.49 | Bushmaster | greycat, thanks so there is no easy way to do it, I am not sure at this stage of learning I can do fg or bg |
| 21:11.38 | greycat | As I told you hours ago, use the -X option to less to make it STOP removing the information from the screen when it exits. |
| 21:11.50 | greycat | Then you can just 'q' out of it, and it'll leave the information you want to see visible on the screen. |
| 21:12.44 | Bushmaster | greycat I tried but did not see it worked, but let me try again, i just gone to /usr/bin and there I see half a million files, very intimidating |
| 21:16.36 | Bushmaster | greycat, OHHHHHHHH YES, you are beautiful man, it worked, that is very useful command with -X, I went to /usr/bin and then Page Down to where crontab file is and pressed Q and it worked, back to command prompt and I can see that screen where crontab I located ... |
| 21:17.37 | tarzeau | Bushmaster: using ctrl-z also asks to learn about jobs, besides fg/bg, and disown |
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| 21:18.42 | tarzeau | $SHELL | lolcat is even irssi compatbile, hah |
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| 21:19.32 | Bushmaster | tarzeau, I am learning, very early stage of learning the Linux file systems and its really enjoyable, so much freedom, simply amazing, all open and no issues |
| 21:21.01 | tarzeau | the funny thing with linux file systems is, there aren't that many of them, but linux supports a lot of file systems |
| 21:21.21 | tarzeau | Bushmaster: yah, 20+ years ago i also though, oh cool debian, zero bugs |
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| 21:24.00 | joze | the murderer that made reiser FS? |
| 21:24.06 | n4dir | not sure if it might be an idea to tell Bushmaster about wooledge.org , which might avoid the most common bad habits one may find in books and online. |
| 21:24.39 | n4dir | sure won't hurt to use it in addition to the book |
| 21:25.10 | joze | reiser FS is imntegrated in rext4 now isn't it? |
| 21:25.15 | Bushmaster | I am enjoying learning Linux for sure tarzeau the filesystem is artwork, its amazing, because I can see the hierarchy from root and then bin is second which basically holds the programs for OS to boot and run and then boot which presents how to boot and then /dev and it goes on in a order, it helps learning how OS works |
| 21:25.18 | joze | *ext4 |
| 21:25.56 | tarzeau | i've only ever used xfs and btrfs, and well now finally exfatprogs |
| 21:26.23 | tarzeau | Bushmaster: pity you missed /etc/inittab |
| 21:26.31 | n4dir | thought the same ... |
| 21:26.42 | tarzeau | Bushmaster: it's simplicity was a delight of excellence with a cherry on top |
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| 21:27.03 | Bushmaster | and there is bin under usr which is not the same bin, it make sense, first bin boot and run the OS, /usr/bin run programs that usr installed or came with Linux |
| 21:27.18 | tarzeau | Bushmaster: let me guess you use ip, and not ifconfig, and also not netstat but ss |
| 21:27.30 | tarzeau | Bushmaster: the best bin is /usr/games/ |
| 21:27.53 | tarzeau | Bushmaster: with linux no bin came, but with the gnu userland |
| 21:28.10 | n4dir | isn't /usr/bin just a link for /bin ? |
| 21:28.24 | Bushmaster | tarzeau, I am learning from the book, conceptions and foundations, I am only in chapter 4, the book has more than 20 chapters |
| 21:28.27 | tarzeau | n4dir: they screwed it all up! i'm sticking to my /Applications |
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| 21:28.47 | tarzeau | Bushmaster: never heard of that book, who wrote it? and what year? |
| 21:29.23 | tarzeau | sorry for being ignorant, but i'd probably burn it when it's cold in the fireplace |
| 21:30.07 | Bushmaster | tarzeau, It is open source book THE LINUX COMMAND LINE. Copyright © 2012 by William E. Shotts, Jr. Its old book but I think it is helping me to learn |
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| 21:33.36 | n4dir | as said, Bushmaster, though i don't know that book i'd say it won't hurt to read wooledge.org in addition. |
| 21:34.24 | n4dir | but i should give the correct link. ups: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/ |
| 21:34.46 | Bushmaster | n4dir, let me check, thanks |
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| 21:38.48 | Bushmaster | n4dir, very rich, lot of information and well structured, I sure will read from there too, it appears greycat is leading authority so I am honored |
| 21:38.54 | tarzeau | don't forget the best bash documentation is not at bash.org |
| 21:39.20 | Bushmaster | so the emulator I am using in my Debian is bash? |
| 21:39.32 | tarzeau | Bushmaster: it's a $SHELL |
| 21:39.42 | tarzeau | !emulator |
| 21:39.42 | dpkg | emulator is, like, hardware or software which performs emulation. For related software, ask me about <bochs>, <dosbox>, <dosemu>, <nintendo>, <virtualization>. |
| 21:40.15 | Bushmaster | I get confuse, shell is a program that transfer my commands to BASH? |
| 21:40.47 | tarzeau | bash is short for bourne again shell |
| 21:41.18 | tarzeau | Bushmaster: it's a program taking input, and doing what you ask it to (shell as in the real shell, try dict shell) |
| 21:42.08 | tarzeau | Bushmaster: once you use strace and ltrace, you see what happens when you run stuff |
| 21:43.09 | Bushmaster | okay thanks |
| 21:45.40 | greycat | n4dir: /bin is a symlink to /usr/bin on new Debian 10 installs (*not* upgrades unless you explicitly take steps to do the UsrMerge yourself) |
| 21:46.15 | n4dir | greycat: it is that new? i thought it wa slike that for longer |
| 21:46.16 | greycat | Bushmaster: bash is a shell. It runs inside a terminal. |
| 21:46.27 | greycat | !usrmerge |
| 21:46.27 | dpkg | /usr merge is the combining of /bin and /usr/bin, /sbin and /usr/sbin on fresh installs of Debian 10 Buster. On machines upgraded from Stretch, this is optional, and can be accomplished if desired via the usrmerge package |
| 21:46.47 | n4dir | you learn a new thing everyday. thanks for clarifying |
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| 21:50.24 | jhutchins | !FHS |
| 21:50.24 | dpkg | Debian follows the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. The filesystem is categorized by purpose, not application. This allows, for example, the easy and efficient deployment of a read-only /usr area across a number of thin clients. See http://www.pathname.com/fhs/ or install the 'debian-policy' package (/usr/share/doc/debian-policy/fhs/*), or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard, or "man hier". |
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| 22:15.42 | jhutchins | I've disabled a couple of sites I used to host, and now certbot renewal fails becuse it tries to validate the sites. How can I get around this? |
| 22:16.30 | jhutchins | If I need to just remove the existing certificates and files from letsencrypt and generate a new cert, which files do I remove and which do I retain? Can I just purge certbot and reinstall it? |
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| 22:27.27 | jmcnaught | jhutchins: certbot has a delete command but I haven't had to use it before. |
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| 22:32.41 | jhutchins | jmcnaught: It checks the DNS for the site, then tries to use a file installed in the site to validate ownership. |
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| 22:33.36 | jhutchins | I can get around the DNS problem with a hosts entry, but I guess I need to restore the site so the validation works. |
| 22:34.02 | jhutchins | One of the problems is that the CN it used for the cert is a site I've already taken down and want to remove. |
| 22:34.32 | jhutchins | I really need to just delete the old cert and generate a new one for the site I need. |
| 22:34.59 | jhutchins | Maybe the answer is to generate individual certs for the remaining sites and tweak the configuration. |
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| 22:37.44 | karlpinc | jhutchins: I'd say that individual certs per-site is the way to go. |
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| 22:57.14 | lembron | hi, grub-update today/yesterday has me confused... i just updated a kernel like a week ago if even - everything was alright, but now with "only grub in upgrade" it aborts and yells about beeing unable to write boot - to any of my disks (nvme0, nvme1, (and obvs.) md2) - so.... whats up there? "grub-install: warning: this GPT partition label contains no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be |
| 22:57.15 | lembron | possible." |
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| 22:58.52 | lembron | if i just tell it to ignore it moves on... softlocked now? ;D https://paste.debian.net/1158243/ |
| 23:03.28 | petn-randall | lembron: Do you have a BIOS boot partition? |
| 23:03.43 | petn-randall | lembron: The output of `fdisk -l` might help here. |
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| 23:05.56 | lembron | petn-randall im not 1000% what this means, but i belive not... -- output (mdstat/fdisk) here: https://paste.debian.net/1158246/ |
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| 23:07.56 | petn-randall | lembron: Oh, you have a EFI system partition. This might mean that you're not booted in EFI mode, which might confuse grub. |
| 23:08.08 | lembron | also mounts has: "/dev/nvme0n1p1 /boot/efi vfat" |
| 23:09.01 | petn-randall | lembron: To clarify, you *should* be booted in EFI mode, as you apparently installed the system in EFI mode. Which I assume from the fact that you have an EFI system partition. |
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| 23:10.29 | lembron | isnt it? quick google says "/sys/firmware/efi exists means system uses UEFI" - and that does exist here |
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| 23:22.41 | jhutchins | petn-randall: I don't have that folder, so I guess I'm booted in bios mode, but when I start, I get a message "invalid partition table". If I hit any key, the boot continues normally. |
| 23:23.12 | jhutchins | petn-randall: Any idea what I need to do to fix that? (This is on stretch). |
| 23:24.31 | petn-randall | jhutchins: Invalid partition table sounds like an error from the BIOS? Not sure what that means. |
| 23:25.52 | petn-randall | lembron: If you run `grub-install /dev/nvme0n1`, what does that give you? You might also want to use -v and/or --recheck. |
| 23:26.50 | jhutchins | fdisk doesn't show an efi partition. I think I might have started an efi build, but it failed for some reason and I went back to bios. |
| 23:27.14 | jhutchins | I should look in the bios when I'm ready to upgrade to buster, see what it thinks it's doing. |
| 23:27.25 | lembron | petn-randall https://paste.debian.net/1158250/ |
| 23:27.33 | petn-randall | jhutchins: If you install and boot via legacy mode, that's completely fine. In that case you don't have a EFI system partition on your GPT, but rather a BIOS boot partition. |
| 23:28.28 | jhutchins | D'Oh, I do have an efi partition. |
| 23:29.15 | petn-randall | lembron: Now I'd try running the same apt command as before to see if the issue is gone. Might be that you had an outdated device map, or had grub configured to install to some other device. |
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| 23:29.40 | petn-randall | I've had grub issues so seldomly that I've never bothered to dig to the root cause. |
| 23:31.17 | lembron | petn-randall well i think ive basically skipped past apt by telling it "ignore" so i dont know what exact command was run there.. a) should i run that for nvme1n1 too then? b) i should have another identical server with the grub update pending, i may try to run it there before apting? (both disk again id presume) |
| 23:32.05 | lembron | i guess i gonna reboot this patient too before to see if he comes back or dies :P |
| 23:32.45 | jhutchins | I keep hoping I'll run into someone who's had this problem and fixed it. |
| 23:33.12 | jhutchins | Oh well, no progress on certbot either. I think it's time to quit. |
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| 23:34.59 | hop | how can i find out why fail2ban will log "Found" dozens of times for an ip address but never bans it? |
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| 23:37.17 | sney | look at your actions for that log, there may be a syntax error or so |
| 23:38.01 | hop | i have not changed the config in any way |
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| 23:39.45 | sney | in fail2ban, the filter scans the logs and reports matches. the action is what happens as a result. it's possible for one to work without the other. if you haven't looked at your config, you should do that now, because there may be something missing or needing you to make a choice |
| 23:39.57 | lembron | hop depending on what it works on there might be lag, or the rule it sets is ineffective (wrong ports / broken order), see iptables-save |
| 23:40.27 | hop | most ips are banned, just some are not. and as i said, this is the debian standard config |
| 23:41.53 | hop | besides, if i were able to identify a problem with the config files, i wouldn't have come here. i've tried. |
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| 23:45.29 | sney | are the successes and failures from the same daemon? or are you succeeding in banning e.g. ssh logins and not pop3 |
| 23:46.56 | hop | i believe only ssh is enabled in a fresh installation |
| 23:47.45 | aaro | hop: how frequent are the logs for those addresses? doesn't fail2ban has a time frame to apply a ban?, like ie 3 attempts in less than five minutes |
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| 23:48.28 | hop | aaro: we are talking dozens a minute, hundreds in the 600s configured by default |
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| 23:49.07 | hop | hm. i'm running out of test cases. it seems the storm is passing :-/ |
| 23:50.52 | hop | it also seems the baddies got wise to the default configuration. most ips keep well away from the 5 in 600s of the default installation |
| 23:52.17 | hop | is it conceivable that f2b just can't cope above a certain level? because now that the attempts have gone down, i can't see the problem anymore |
| 23:54.52 | aaro | hop: if you're suffering from distributed brute-force attack fail2ban won't help |
| 23:56.13 | hop | aaro: i can ban all of china at any time. i'm not suffering, i'm trying to find out why fail2ban is failing |
| 23:59.12 | lembron | also note it blocks new connections, wont close open ones |
