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| 00:02.16 | hop | these are all failed login attempts. sshd will close the connection after so many attempts, anyway |
| 00:04.26 | hop | aaandâ¦Â it's over :-/ |
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| 00:06.18 | hop | thanks for your patience! |
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| 00:09.56 | petn-randall | lembron: That depends on how your configured it. It can do both. |
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| 00:25.21 | lembron | petn-randall f2b? well he said "all default" and i belive default is just new |
| 00:25.59 | lembron | also, made reboot on the node, seems all well... - gonna try with another one now and run the grubcmd there before the install to see what happens :P |
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| 00:31.04 | lembron | petn-randall hm noe, also after just running the install, apt still yells https://i.imgur.com/IQaOQeU.png |
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| 00:40.58 | timothywcrane | trying to compile a list of languages that are used or included in the packages of a min netinstall server. So far I have come up with C, Python (2&3), Perl and AWK, and bash if you include it as a language... anybody care to drop the names of others? |
| 00:41.48 | timothywcrane | only utilities and ssh teasksel included... nothing web or DE included |
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| 00:50.28 | CyberManifest | I would like to try out Pure Debian on a Raspberry Pi 3 B+, Is this possible? |
| 00:50.57 | quadrathoch2 | CyberManifest yeah I have a 3B without issues |
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| 00:51.13 | quadrathoch2 | I used one of the premade/verified images |
| 00:51.38 | CyberManifest | quadrathoch2: you don't mean Raspbian or Raspberry Pi OS ? |
| 00:51.58 | quadrathoch2 | no oO? |
| 00:52.13 | CyberManifest | quadrathoch2: so can you walk me through the process? |
| 00:52.54 | CyberManifest | quadrathoch2: also is there a net install for the Raspberry Pi 3 B+ ? |
| 00:53.40 | quadrathoch2 | https://raspi.debian.net/ is a good start |
| 00:53.55 | quadrathoch2 | you mostly also just copy over the image to the sd card and boot it up. |
| 00:54.23 | quadrathoch2 | just remember the image is smaller than a minimum install (so for example bash-completion is not by default installed) |
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| 00:56.57 | CyberManifest | quadrathoch2: that's not official debian... the url is debian.net and not debian.org |
| 00:57.32 | quadrathoch2 | ahh so you meant literally official :/ |
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| 00:58.35 | sney | CyberManifest: the images are semi-unofficial but maintained by a debian developer, as you can see in the page footer. this is because installing to a rpi involves debootstrap, which is more difficult. you're still getting a pure debian OS out of the deal. |
| 00:58.57 | quadrathoch2 | yeah wanted to say that |
| 00:59.13 | quadrathoch2 | if you want to do it yourself, maybe also head over to #debian-raspberrypi on OFTC |
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| 00:59.51 | CyberManifest | sney: if it's semi-unofficial the how is it any different than say Raspbian or Raspberry Pi OS ? |
| 01:00.04 | CyberManifest | then* |
| 01:01.01 | sney | CyberManifest: because the *image* may be unofficial but the *contents* are not. raspbian is a separate project with separate developers and repos. this is more like the nonfree firmware installer, it's "unofficial" but you're still installing debian |
| 01:01.01 | CyberManifest | also are these 32 bit images or 64 bit ? |
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| 01:01.11 | quadrathoch2 | 64 |
| 01:01.45 | CyberManifest | alright, I'll give it a shot |
| 01:01.48 | CyberManifest | thanks :) |
| 01:02.37 | CyberManifest | quadrathoch2: and you don't have any issues on your 3 ? |
| 01:02.54 | quadrathoch2 | Nope running for 2 months straight |
| 01:03.00 | CyberManifest | does the image provide an installer or is it just a shell or what? |
| 01:03.29 | sney | the raspi.debian.net page has links that seek to answer that question and more, I recommend reading them |
| 01:03.52 | quadrathoch2 | Mind you. I use for my stuff podman |
| 01:05.01 | CyberManifest | quadrathoch2: so none of the Known Issues mentioned here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=275370 are affecting you ? |
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| 01:06.24 | quadrathoch2 | Eh on the graphical stuff i canât really talk about. As I am using it as a small server. But vlc shouldnât be an issue imho. |
| 01:07.19 | quadrathoch2 | And 4) shouldnât even be at all an issue as Debian doesnât use the raspi kernel |
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| 01:09.10 | CyberManifest | sney: I have a mSATA over USB HAT attached to my Raspberry Pi 3 B+ and I'd like to be able to "Install" debian to that mSATA drive; after reading at raspi.debian.net, it mentions no installer; is there a way I can get a qualified installer to use on that mSATA drive? |
| 01:10.36 | sney | the regular debian armhf/arm64 installer might work. I don't have any personal experience but I imagine they were tested on the rpi due to its popularity |
| 01:10.59 | sney | I would expect some possible issues with configuring the bootloader but I'm sure that information is available |
| 01:11.11 | quadrathoch2 | You would still need an sd card cybermanifest :/ |
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| 01:11.24 | CyberManifest | sney, so once I boot into my environment what steps would I take to obtain and start the installer? |
| 01:11.27 | sney | and https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/arm64/index.en.html |
| 01:12.22 | CyberManifest | quadrathoch2: temporarily, the HAT comes with software that negates the need for an SD card, you can read about it: it's an element14 Pi Desktop |
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| 01:12.52 | quadrathoch2 | How would that work, as the firmware doesnât support it (except you got the beta) |
| 01:13.53 | CyberManifest | quadrathoch2: yes the firmware does support it on the 3 B+ as I've booted from the mSATA on numerous occassion without so much as an SD card in the slot |
| 01:14.07 | CyberManifest | occasion* |
| 01:14.19 | quadrathoch2 | Ahh kk, so at some point I really need to get myself a new pi |
| 01:15.05 | CyberManifest | quadrathoch2: the way it works, is it still checks the SD card if nothing is there then it takes a while and eventually boots over USB |
| 01:16.21 | dvs | quadrathoch2, if you have Raspberry Pi OS, you can update the bootloader on an old Pi so that you can boot off of a USB drive. |
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| 01:16.57 | quadrathoch2 | Yeah thatâs why I was talking about the beta. Or is it already released? Dvs |
| 01:17.06 | quadrathoch2 | https://github.com/tianocore/edk2-platforms/tree/master/Platform/RaspberryPi/RPi4 Hope this takes off |
| 01:17.18 | dvs | quadrathoch2, it was released June 15th. |
| 01:17.30 | quadrathoch2 | Ahh nice thanks for the info |
| 01:17.32 | dvs | Well, it's dated June 15th |
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| 01:33.41 | CyberManifest | what's the default login? |
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| 01:34.45 | CyberManifest | quadrathoch2: I just imaged to my mSATA and booted without an SD card in... what's the default login? |
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| 01:37.05 | quadrathoch2 | https://raspi.debian.net/defaults-and-settings/ |
| 01:37.24 | quadrathoch2 | Cybermanifest ^ |
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| 01:41.24 | CyberManifest | quadrathoch2: thank you! This is great :) |
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| 01:46.09 | CyberManifest | quadrathoch2: already having hardware issues... the key repeat is sensitive, it automatically repeats and once after doing an install package it kept doing a carriage return |
| 01:50.32 | CyberManifest | like I couldn't even open a .sh file in nano, it was scrolling the screen and doing carriage returns, and when I go to exit it wants to know if I wanna save the buffer, because of all those carriage returns |
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| 01:52.10 | CyberManifest | I think it may just be key sensitivity, is there a way to reduce it? |
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| 01:56.12 | CyberManifest | quadrathoch2: where are the sources.list ? it's not in /etc/sources like I'm used to |
| 01:56.26 | sney | it's in /etc/apt as always |
| 01:57.07 | CyberManifest | nvm |
| 01:57.09 | CyberManifest | found it |
| 01:57.13 | CyberManifest | sney: oh, thanks |
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| 02:10.28 | CyberManifest | I want to pull in some raspberry pi tools like rpi-config from Raspbian's sources, but they are 32 bit, is there a way to enable 32 bit support here in 64 bit debian? |
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| 02:12.29 | nvz | CyberManifest: of course |
| 02:13.31 | lembron | petn-randall some more follow up on the grub thing - just noticed munin (or rather icinga rrd check) complains df-_dev_nvme0n1p1-g.rrd : data are too old, 30-Jul-2020 02:55:07 -- nvme0n1p1 itself is and was totaly "there" in fdisk at least - and "looks the same" as on a not-yet-upgraded machine --- and all boot fine so... whatever i guess... |
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| 02:15.32 | lembron | or maybe... could be it fliped nvme1n1p1 vs nvme0n1p1 or so... - but installed "fails" on both so idk |
| 02:16.04 | CyberManifest | nvz: I'm learning :) https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/HOWTO |
| 02:16.44 | nvz | CyberManifest: its pretty simple.. single command to enable i386, and you can also specify in the sources.list [arch=amd64] or such for specific lines |
| 02:17.15 | CyberManifest | nvz: yeah I'm seeing that |
| 02:17.38 | nvz | the specification isnt required or anything, its just an option |
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| 02:18.11 | nvz | CyberManifest: things like wine wouldnt really work without multiarch |
| 02:19.36 | nvz | CyberManifest: its just a bit of a pain cause you need seperate copies of libs and such and when installing you just put :i386 or such after the package name |
| 02:20.19 | CyberManifest | nvz: thanks for the tips ;) |
| 02:20.37 | sney | mixing arm64 with armhf will probably be a slightly different experience than the 32/64 x86 situation, but still good stuff to know |
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| 02:23.23 | CyberManifest | so on that page I'm seeing an example of: deb [arch=armel,armhf] http:// # does it have to be two: armel, armhf; or can I get by with [arch=armhf] http:// ... ? |
| 02:23.46 | nvz | yes everything is more annoying on arm.. that time I fubarred my debian install and was trying to kexec the debian kernel from android I ran into problems and after much digging found some undocumented kexec option that made it work |
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| 02:24.45 | nvz | CyberManifest: you can get by not specifying anything.. the sources list specifications are only if you want to limit what it'll get from that repo.. once you add the architecture, apt will get all archs you added from any repo that doesnt specify |
| 02:24.47 | sney | CyberManifest: I know it's tempting to skip the instructions and go right to the examples, but "It is not normally necessary on Debian" is true. the [arch=] fields are only necessary in some situations |
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| 02:25.35 | sney | add the source as normal and only specify the arch if apt yells about it. and yes, you can put just 1 arch in that field |
| 02:25.45 | nvz | CyberManifest: one case you may specify in sources.list is if the repo in question doesnt have all archs your package manager has.. and you want to avoid errors/warnings on update |
| 02:25.54 | CyberManifest | sney: it did yell at me saying it was 32 bit |
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| 02:30.39 | S3xyL1nux | i need to disable the low battery power mode |
| 02:31.14 | nvz | the what now? |
| 02:31.30 | S3xyL1nux | i tried and couldn't |
| 02:31.38 | sney | probably some gnome thing |
| 02:31.52 | nvz | yeah.. probably something to elaborate on |
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| 02:35.26 | CyberManifest | I don't understand I can't find rpi-config in the repos, I found it on github but I don't know what it's dependency looks like |
| 02:35.55 | sney | ,i bin/rpi-config |
| 02:35.56 | judd | No package named 'bin/rpi-config' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 02:35.59 | sney | er |
| 02:36.02 | sney | ,file bin/rpi-config |
| 02:36.08 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 02:36.15 | sney | ,file bin/rpi-config --arch armhf |
| 02:36.19 | judd | No packages in buster/armhf were found with that file. |
| 02:36.33 | sney | there may be some licensing thing. the raspbian binary will *probably* just run though |
| 02:37.20 | CyberManifest | https://github.com/RPi-Distro/raspi-config |
| 02:38.22 | sney | yeah, so you can apt install devscripts and build-essential, download that source tree, do a 'fakeroot debian/rules binary' and see what happens |
| 02:39.16 | sney | only debhelper in build-depends so that will Just Work probably. won't know until you try though |
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| 02:39.27 | CyberManifest | I just got it off the git, and it's working :) |
| 02:39.53 | sney | oh it's a shell script! forget what I said then |
| 02:40.06 | CyberManifest | lol |
| 02:40.49 | sney | expat license, plenty of people using rpi hardware with pure debian, odd that this hasn't been packaged |
| 02:44.26 | CyberManifest | it's not totally working cause all the little programs it depends on aren't installed. just got an error for wpa-supplicant |
| 02:44.39 | CyberManifest | what package is that in ? |
| 02:45.25 | sney | if you look at https://github.com/RPi-Distro/raspi-config/blob/master/debian/control the bottom section tells you the depends/recs that would be installed if you had installed this through apt |
| 02:45.43 | sney | wpa-supplicant is in wpasupplicant and oddly not listed there. hm. |
| 02:45.52 | CyberManifest | also couldn't change the main user's password |
| 02:46.10 | CyberManifest | sney: awesome, thank you :) |
| 02:46.12 | sney | it probably assumes raspbian defaults which you don't have |
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| 02:47.44 | CyberManifest | I feel like a kid in a candy shop :) |
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| 02:52.29 | CyberManifest | sney: how about the rpi-update package? know if it's in the repos? |
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| 02:54.06 | sney | CyberManifest: watch this |
| 02:54.10 | sney | ,file bin/rpi-update |
| 02:54.14 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 02:54.26 | sney | oh right, architecture |
| 02:54.31 | sney | ,file bin/rpi-update --arch armhf |
| 02:54.35 | judd | No packages in buster/armhf were found with that file. |
| 02:54.53 | CyberManifest | sney, even with the dependancies it gives me errors saying it can't communicate with the wpa-supplicant |
| 02:54.54 | sney | there, now you know as much as I do. (you can also /msg judd, so you don't clog the channel) |
| 02:55.10 | sney | did you install wpasupplicant? |
| 02:55.25 | CyberManifest | sney: said it was already installed and the newest |
| 02:55.49 | sney | it may be looking for some raspbian-specific thing that debian does differently. |
| 02:56.18 | CyberManifest | sney: and I didn't figure rpi-update would be in debian's repos, I meant raspbian's repos; not sure how to check or what the proper name of the package is to check for |
| 02:56.33 | CyberManifest | sney: yeah probably |
| 02:57.13 | sney | if you just want to connect to wifi using wpa, https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#Command_Line has the examples you need |
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| 02:58.24 | sney | if you have raspbian's repo added and you can't see packages that you know should be present (e.g. apt policy rpi-update) then you may need to run apt update again. |
| 02:59.20 | sney | doing something like 'apt list rpi*' would show you available packages that begin with that string, without spamming your screen with 1000 short descriptions |
| 02:59.24 | CyberManifest | sney I did, I'll check that wiki for debians method, honestly I wanted this thing to set my locales like keyboard, language, time-zone etc. |
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| 03:01.03 | CyberManifest | sney, I figure if I change my keboard and locals my keysensativity will stop, as of right now local says POSIX instead of en-UTF8 |
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| 03:02.48 | sney | I'm not sure what you mean by key sensitivity, but anyway: dpkg-reconfigure is your friend. call it with 'locales' and 'keyboard-configuration' for those |
| 03:03.13 | sney | !refcard |
| 03:03.14 | dpkg | A short reference of Debian commands - quite useful for someone new to Debian - can be found at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/refcard/refcard.en.pdf and packaged for Debian as debian-refcard. See also <grounding>, <vim refcard>. |
| 03:03.31 | CyberManifest | sney: like dpkg-reconfigure locales ? |
| 03:03.35 | sney | yes |
| 03:03.46 | CyberManifest | sney: awesome, thank you :) |
| 03:07.56 | CyberManifest | sney: that keyboard-configuration didn't let me pick my keyboard type: 103 key vs 104 key etc. |
| 03:08.47 | sney | what happens instead? |
| 03:08.51 | CyberManifest | sney: and dpkg-reconfigure locales let me pick my locale but didn't change anything... when I run locale it still shows POSIX |
| 03:09.09 | sney | locales is session-dependent so log out and log back in to be sure |
| 03:09.18 | CyberManifest | sney, for the previous question, It only let me pick my keyboard language, that was it |
| 03:10.05 | sney | if you 'apt policy keyboard-configuration' is your installed version from debian? |
| 03:11.49 | CyberManifest | sney: tell me how to install net cat and I can show you the output |
| 03:13.39 | CyberManifest | sney: https://termbin.com/12wdz |
| 03:14.08 | sney | 404 |
| 03:14.21 | sney | refreshes a few times to be sure |
| 03:14.39 | CyberManifest | yeah I see that |
| 03:14.47 | CyberManifest | I typed the URL exactly the same |
| 03:14.56 | sney | no caps? |
| 03:15.04 | CyberManifest | nope |
| 03:15.19 | CyberManifest | https://termbin.com/12wdz |
| 03:15.34 | CyberManifest | let me try terminal again |
| 03:16.42 | CyberManifest | odd, anyways https://termbin.com/toe2 |
| 03:18.12 | CyberManifest | sney ^ |
| 03:18.16 | sney | that's less than illuminating. |
| 03:18.58 | CyberManifest | sney: well you asked about: apt policy keyboard-configuration |
| 03:19.15 | sney | you're kind of getting into frankendebian territory now, just fyi. you may want to look at the docs for apt pinning (don't ask me, I don't use it, look it up on the debian wiki and/or the apt manual) and directly set the raspbian repos to a lower priority |
| 03:20.00 | sney | but anyway, according to this, the keyboard-configuration package *should be* identical between debian and raspbian since they didn't change the version string. |
| 03:20.37 | CyberManifest | sney: actually, I think I'm going to remove the raspbian repos and 32 bit arch, it's not serving me how I thought / intended anyways so I'll just have to adjust to debian ways |
| 03:21.28 | sney | I think your best bet for informed support is to go to #debian-arm on OFTC. it's a smaller channel and you probably won't get responses as quickly, but they will do less guessing than I'm doing now. |
| 03:22.09 | sney | but yes removing the raspbian repos is a good idea |
| 03:22.13 | CyberManifest | sney: alright, thank you for all your help :) |
| 03:22.18 | sney | np |
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| 03:31.05 | CyberManifest | sney: guess what... after removing the repos and removing 32 bit support, I ran the keyboard-configuration thing again, and now it's working and showing me all my options, lol |
| 03:32.10 | sney | I'd take this opportunity to yell at plugwash for modifying the package without changing the version string, but he isn't in this channel. |
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| 03:33.10 | sney | there's nothing *really* special about the pi outside its weird bootloader so you should be set with pure debian stuff from now on. probably. |
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| 03:36.41 | CyberManifest | sney real quick with that wifi wiki link you sent me, it shows a command and I can't tell if it's literal instruction or an example it says: # ip link set wlp2s0 up #do I do the same or will mine look like: ip link set wlan0 up #? |
| 03:37.33 | sney | again, you have to read the instructions part, not just the example. the 'ip a' and 'iw dev' are there so you can find out what your interface is called before setting it to up |
| 03:38.09 | *** join/#debian citypw (~citypw@gateway/tor-sasl/citypw) |
| 03:38.33 | sney | ... and if you already know your wifi interface name, and your essid, you can go straight to editing /etc/network/interfaces. |
| 03:39.15 | CyberManifest | sney: I did those, but I didn't know if I use the results or what is shown in the command |
| 03:39.30 | nvz | the command is ip, the last argument is up |
| 03:39.36 | nvz | anything before or after that isnt part of it |
| 03:40.08 | nvz | the site specific argument is wlan0 or wlp2s0 |
| 03:40.15 | nvz | thats where your device name goes |
| 03:40.18 | sney | 'iw dev' will show your interface name after the word Interface |
| 03:40.49 | CyberManifest | so mine will be ip link set wlan0 up ? |
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| 03:41.19 | sney | (full disclosure: I wrote this section of the wiki, and maybe I should split the 'find' and 'bring up' steps, but it seems to have done the job just fine for some time now) |
| 03:42.23 | CyberManifest | sney: also do I need to do these steps if I installed wicd ? and I know my SSID and now my interface name ? |
| 03:42.44 | sney | no, if you're using wicd, you can just use wicd. |
| 03:42.47 | nvz | yes well I didnt know of this iw command.. I used iwconfig, iwlist, but if the output is that clean you could make it a oneliner with a subshell even |
| 03:43.01 | nvz | especially if this command has options to even just output only the device like some do.. |
| 03:43.05 | sney | since you were messing with rpi-config and wpasupplicant it sounded like you weren't using a gui. |
| 03:43.07 | nvz | then you dont need to parse the output |
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| 03:44.02 | nvz | ip link set $(iw dev | cut -b ..) up |
| 03:44.05 | nvz | or something like that |
| 03:44.12 | nvz | sed, perl, awk, whatever |
| 03:44.14 | CyberManifest | Ok, nevermind, I just read: "Your wireless interface should not be referenced within Debian's /etc/network/interfaces file. " |
| 03:44.17 | sney | nvz: I try to avoid putting oneliner kludges in documentation, it can be... off-putting to people who don't know what they're looking at. better to give people the tools. |
| 03:44.33 | nvz | sney: yeah I know the feeling. |
| 03:45.11 | sney | I've ripped a few nasty one-liners out of dpkg factoids too. space conservation is one thing, but if you have a sed mess full of punctuation, nobody's learning anything anyway |
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| 03:45.26 | nvz | heh |
| 03:45.40 | CyberManifest | sney: well I'm not presently using a GUI but I intend to, do I need to do something else to get wifi to work on the terminal when I'm not using the GUI ? like when I log out of my X Win session? |
| 03:45.51 | nvz | dpkg -l | egrep ^.i (inb4 shaddup dpkg) |
| 03:45.51 | dpkg | ii | egrep ^.i (inb4 shaddup dpkg) 1.7-2.3 nvz's private stamp collection |
| 03:46.13 | sney | CyberManifest: wicd will only maintain your wifi connection when you're logged in. if you want it up all the time, use /etc/network/interfaces |
| 03:46.34 | sney | (or just stay logged in) |
| 03:46.48 | nvz | or just use network-manager |
| 03:46.54 | sney | I wouldn't on arm |
| 03:46.59 | CyberManifest | sney: if I use /etc/network/interfaces will it interfere with wicd ? |
| 03:47.10 | nvz | oh.. forgot that bit of context |
| 03:47.25 | nvz | wicd is just shit.. I dont want to say that, but its true |
| 03:47.34 | sney | wicd can co-exist with /etc/network/interfaces to some degree. I think you'll still get the applet showing signal strength, but if you try to override settings with wicd things will get weird |
| 03:47.36 | nvz | there is a wicd curses interface though |
| 03:47.45 | nvz | one of the many things I like about it |
| 03:47.53 | nvz | I just wish wicd was reliable codebase |
| 03:47.58 | CyberManifest | sney: alright, thanks for the heads up |
| 03:48.12 | sney | np |
| 03:48.29 | nvz | ,i wicd-cli |
| 03:48.30 | judd | Package wicd-cli (net, optional) in buster/amd64: wired and wireless network manager - scriptable console client. Version: 1.7.4+tb2-6; Size: 27.7k; Installed: 59k; Homepage: https://launchpad.net/wicd |
| 03:48.32 | nvz | ,i wicd-curses |
| 03:48.33 | judd | Package wicd-curses (net, optional) in buster/amd64: wired and wireless network manager - Curses client. Version: 1.7.4+tb2-6; Size: 51.6k; Installed: 175k; Homepage: https://launchpad.net/wicd; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/wicd-curses |
| 03:48.45 | Unit193 | ,i ceni |
| 03:48.46 | judd | Package ceni (net, optional) in buster/amd64: Curses interface to /etc/network/interfaces. Version: 2.33-2; Size: 45.6k; Installed: 130k; Homepage: https://github.com/fullstory/ceni |
| 03:48.49 | sney | I like that it's pronounced "wicked" |
| 03:49.04 | nvz | n-m has a cli built in.. and its fairly friendly... but afaik has no curses interface |
| 03:49.26 | CyberManifest | sney: wait, I'm confused, do I do step 2 in the wicd section or do I fill out /etc/network/interfaces completely ? |
| 03:49.29 | sney | I'm pretty sure there's a n-m curses/terminfo thingie but it's about as user-friendly as dselect :P |
| 03:49.30 | nvz | I think I used ceni a long time ago.. or something like it |
| 03:49.50 | nvz | CyberManifest: you can install the wicd-curses and use that when not in X |
| 03:50.01 | nvz | CyberManifest: it makes a UI just like the graphical one on the console |
| 03:50.02 | sney | CyberManifest: you choose. |
| 03:50.04 | CyberManifest | nvz: perfect! thank you |
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| 03:50.31 | nvz | its user friendly, the problem is just sadly that in my experience wicd itself is just buggy |
| 03:50.35 | nvz | very buggy |
| 03:51.13 | nvz | last I used it was on my orangepi lite.. and I compared n-m, wicd, and /e/n/i and I got fewest disconnects and connection failures with /e/n/i and the most with wicd |
| 03:51.13 | sney | I've never run into an experience-breaking bug with it and the first time I used it was on squeeze. it's definitely a bit clunky though |
| 03:51.22 | nvz | in addition to wicd just crashing of course |
| 03:51.41 | nvz | na the user interface is superb.. |
| 03:51.59 | nvz | its just the stability of the code and ability to deal with any quriks in connectivity that is shit |
| 03:53.27 | nvz | where the stability of n-m has gotten great over the years |
| 03:53.35 | nvz | I hated it early on.. and was using wicd back then |
| 03:53.48 | CyberManifest | sney: not sure I understand this wicd-curses I selected my ESSID and hit enter and it keeps showing Wireless: Obtaining IP address... \(spinning) and at the top ti shows IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not ready |
| 03:53.59 | CyberManifest | er nvs ^ |
| 03:54.04 | nvz | QED :P |
| 03:54.13 | sney | we used to recommend throwing n-m away a lot in these channels but it doesn't cause problems as much as it used to. |
| 03:54.26 | *** join/#debian pingfloyd (~pingfloyd@unaffiliated/pingfloyd) |
| 03:54.43 | sney | CyberManifest: try getting the connection up with the /etc/network/interfaces example, it's easier to debug. if it works fine then we can proceed to troubleshooting wicd. |
| 03:54.45 | nvz | yeah back when n-m was new to debian wicd was fairly new to it as well.. and I loved the look of wicd.. I wanted it to succeed.. |
| 03:54.52 | nvz | but then it got worse and n-m got better |
| 03:55.01 | CyberManifest | sney: alright, thank you |
| 03:55.15 | nvz | the kinda crap he just experienced is EXACTLY what I mean with wicd |
| 03:55.24 | nvz | it /does/ that.. and crashes with python tracebacks and stuff |
| 03:55.33 | nvz | but its so damn elegant looking.. |
| 03:55.40 | nvz | just doesnt work right all the time :P |
| 03:55.42 | sney | and I'm just sitting here like, inb4 wifi firmware |
| 03:56.11 | sney | CyberManifest: actually, what wifi adapter are you using? |
| 03:56.51 | nvz | in my experience on the orangepi lite /e/n/i > n-m > wicd |
| 03:56.59 | nvz | for reliability |
| 03:57.00 | *** join/#debian pingfloyd (~pingfloyd@unaffiliated/pingfloyd) |
| 03:57.11 | nvz | opposite for user interface :P |
| 03:58.12 | nvz | n-m worked more than wicd did but on low ram like the opi lite had (512mb) it was painful |
| 03:58.31 | sney | I rarely use anything but e/n/i or ifupdown unless the machine is going to be portable |
| 03:58.41 | sney | I guess I have n-m on this desktop but that's just... complacency |
| 03:58.55 | sney | (it was already there, you know) |
| 03:59.32 | nvz | my only gripe with n-m these days is if you ever looked into hooking events.. certain up events are in one place, then down events dont follow same convention.. its just weird like two different people worked on sections of code and implemented things differently |
| 03:59.43 | nvz | its not immediately apparent where to put scripts for certain events |
| 04:00.19 | nvz | but other than that, the cli is easy to use, the applet is great.. and its documentation and overall stability and such have became noteworthy |
| 04:00.35 | nvz | its much like pulseaudio which used to be horrifying and is now quite usable |
| 04:00.59 | sney | indeed. still some layers that can ruin your day, but nothing like it was even 2 years ago |
| 04:02.14 | nvz | usually pulse just needs killed if something acts up now.. it'll restart automatically and it'll act right :P |
| 04:02.35 | nvz | network manager on the other hand it works in scenarios I really think would choke it anymore |
| 04:03.03 | CyberManifest | sney: using the wifi chip on the raspberry pi 3 B+ and it's being shown as wlan0 |
| 04:03.12 | nvz | like I was fooling with aircrack to demonstrate something the other day.. and I didnt even bother doing a check kill, and n-m just played it cool as can be while I manipulated the crap out of a device it was controlling |
| 04:03.20 | sney | I've seen pulse pull some dumb stunts, and the fact that "output to both of these devices, please" requires jumping through hoops is still dumb but it normally just works and I guess that's the standard |
| 04:03.45 | sney | CyberManifest: if you do 'dmesg|grep -i firmware' what do you see? you don't need to pastebin it, just look for warnings/errors |
| 04:03.48 | nvz | as soon as I did airmon-ng stop wlp3s0, n-m went right back to working that instant like it never happened |
| 04:03.51 | nvz | not even a hiccup |
| 04:04.40 | nvz | well wlp3s0mon :D |
| 04:05.01 | nvz | when you do it like I said before, your wifi will still be absent from both the left and right click menus of the n-m applet :D |
| 04:05.39 | nvz | point I was making though is n-m seems real solid anymore.. though its still not as solid as /e/n/i |
| 04:05.48 | CyberManifest | sney: no warnings/errors... brcmfmac: ...Firmware BCM4345/6 wl0 |
| 04:06.02 | sney | b43, gross |
| 04:06.11 | nvz | shivers and utters "brrrroadcom" |
| 04:06.12 | sney | oh yeah but it's a rpi I guess that makes sense |
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| 04:08.27 | CyberManifest | nvz: so in wicd-curses it shows my ESSID in green and it shows Connected to Wireless at 100% with an IP so I guess it's working ? |
| 04:08.34 | *** join/#debian awal1 (~awal1@modemcable195.197-226-192.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 04:09.13 | sney | that sounds like a working connection |
| 04:09.14 | *** join/#debian Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) |
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| 04:09.33 | CyberManifest | cool |
| 04:09.38 | sney | try pinging something |
| 04:09.49 | CyberManifest | sney: but my ethernet is attached |
| 04:10.00 | sney | so unplug it and then try pinging something |
| 04:10.06 | CyberManifest | sney: lol |
| 04:10.10 | CyberManifest | alright, just for you |
| 04:10.17 | sney | if you're currently ssh'd in... make your own decisions |
| 04:10.34 | nvz | CyberManifest: yeah even a broken clock is right twice a day :D |
| 04:10.57 | CyberManifest | yeah pinging www.google.com returned results |
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| 04:11.18 | sney | as a friend from Queens used to say, Boom, son. |
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| 04:13.05 | nvz | wicd /will/ work just not super reliable :P |
| 04:13.30 | CyberManifest | sney, ping: www.wikipedia.com: Temporary failure in name resolution... I can't think of an IP to ping test |
| 04:13.45 | nvz | 8.8.4.4 |
| 04:13.52 | nvz | google dns iirc |
| 04:14.31 | sney | right, and stick the same thing in /etc/resolv.conf :P |
| 04:15.10 | nvz | the repetitive numbers for dns thing seems to have caught on.. I've seen it many places |
| 04:15.29 | CyberManifest | nvz: Destination Host Unreachable 100% packet loss |
| 04:15.36 | sney | indeed. with cloudflare and quad9 as well as the goog |
| 04:16.08 | nvz | xfinity usrs 75.75.75.75 and 75.75.76.76 |
| 04:16.15 | genr8_ | dont use those ;p |
| 04:16.26 | CyberManifest | termbin.com: forward host lookup failed: Host name lookup failure: Resource temporarily unavailable |
| 04:17.06 | sney | routing with split domain can be a little weird, if you know that the wifi network is set up properly then you can mostly not worry about this and just reboot |
| 04:17.14 | nvz | CyberManifest: if you changed state of ethernet while on wifi, you may have screwed up your routing table |
| 04:17.31 | CyberManifest | nvz so reboot and try again ? |
| 04:17.49 | nvz | or just clear out the routing table or disconnect everything including wifi and reconned |
| 04:17.56 | nvz | reconnect* |
| 04:18.03 | CyberManifest | nvz too late, rebooting |
| 04:18.11 | *** join/#debian Antioch (~Antioch@h175-177-044-119.catv02.itscom.jp) |
| 04:18.22 | CyberManifest | wanted to test wifi on boot anyways |
| 04:19.01 | CyberManifest | it's taking a while.... |
| 04:19.14 | nvz | rom wasnt built in a day.. |
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| 04:20.06 | nvz | wanders off to pursue other endeavors than sitdown-comedy |
| 04:20.11 | CyberManifest | works |
| 04:21.05 | CyberManifest | https://termbin.com/2wmp |
| 04:21.19 | sney | !next |
| 04:21.19 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 04:21.36 | CyberManifest | :) |
| 04:21.49 | CyberManifest | Thank you sney, nvz :) |
| 04:22.17 | CyberManifest | now to go resize partitions and reset fstab :D |
| 04:23.46 | CyberManifest | Debian ROCKS! |
| 04:24.36 | sney | wouldn't have used it for ~20 years if it didn't. |
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| 04:29.12 | CyberManifest | wait, how do kernels work on raspi ? I noticed there is a firmware partition and root patition, is the kernel in /boot in the root partition ? |
| 04:29.46 | CyberManifest | or is it somehow in the firmware partition ? |
| 04:30.32 | CyberManifest | would it be more advisable to boot raspi from sd and somehow do a proper debian install onto the mSATA? |
| 04:30.55 | sney | on any system, there's a kernel (and initrd usually) in /boot, and then depending on the hardware there are bootloaders and/or firmware that point the cpu to the right spot on disk to boot the system |
| 04:31.34 | sney | the rpi's bootloader has always been a weird animal. you're probably going to have a bit of a tangle no matter how you do it. if it's working now, keep it |
| 04:32.03 | CyberManifest | sney: well I wanted a separate /boot / <swap> /home |
| 04:32.24 | sney | if all of that is on 1 volume: why? |
| 04:33.23 | CyberManifest | sney, to retain /home during updates, /boot for kernel testing and Swap cause I do some fancy VSWAP on the PI to help performance |
| 04:34.27 | CyberManifest | I forgot to even look which kerenl it is |
| 04:34.38 | sney | having separate /boot makes kernel testing harder unless you're *really* prescient about how much space you'll need |
| 04:34.44 | CyberManifest | kernel* |
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| 04:35.05 | sney | there are a lot of logs from this channel of people with separate /boot that was too small and ran out of room generating the initrd, for example |
| 04:35.12 | CyberManifest | sney: yeah I'm prescient |
| 04:35.21 | sney | nice, you should market that |
| 04:35.45 | CyberManifest | sney: I generally devote about 512MB to 1 GB for /boot |
| 04:35.54 | sney | separate /home is trivial from an already-installed system. log in as root, do parted stuff, remount, done |
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| 04:36.31 | CyberManifest | sney: but when things break I want to retain /home intact |
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| 04:36.54 | sney | if it's the same fstype as / then why not just leave it? we're not in the 90s anymore, your hardware doesn't care how big the first partition is. the only reason separate /boot makes sense anymore is for edge cases |
| 04:36.55 | CyberManifest | sney: these used to be typical user conventions |
| 04:37.29 | sney | emphasis on the "used to" |
| 04:37.43 | sney | they were already kind of obsolete when I really started being a linux nerd, in |
| 04:37.44 | sney | hmm |
| 04:37.46 | sney | 2003 |
| 04:37.55 | CyberManifest | sney: they're still suggested in redhat docs and arch docs and such |
| 04:38.26 | sney | docs maintain old stuff to establish better understanding, not so new users can cargo cult old ideas for no rational reason |
| 04:38.49 | CyberManifest | sney: I like how you put that :) |
| 04:39.47 | sney | I should find a better term than "cargo cult" but thanks |
| 04:40.37 | CyberManifest | sney it wouldn't be hard for me to seperate the partitions, aside from /boot... but this still side steps my question of wether or not to put on SD and do a proper install to mSATA (if can) or just keep things as they are on the mSATA |
| 04:41.05 | sney | if it's working and booting predictably now, what would you gain from starting over? |
| 04:41.34 | CyberManifest | sney: well for one, the boot seems very slow esp compared to raspbian |
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| 04:41.58 | sney | once it's booted, is it comparable? |
| 04:42.32 | CyberManifest | sney: and if I did a proper install I may have more control over the partition scheme and easier method of obtaining the packages I want rather than one by one |
| 04:43.50 | CyberManifest | sney: once it's booted Debian (Raspi) is faster and more attentive by far than Raspbian but I'm still occasionally having issues with the keyboard input being too sensative. |
| 04:44.57 | CyberManifest | it repeats characters at random |
| 04:45.16 | sney | the obsession with boot times is another 90s/00s relic. we don't turn off our computers every day anymore, so who cares? if it's 30s or a minute+ it's downtime that we might worry about twice a month at the *most* |
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| 04:45.25 | CyberManifest | and I'm afraid it's going to carriage return too many times in a config file |
| 04:45.53 | CyberManifest | sney: well I have to turn the Pi off or it can get too hot |
| 04:46.03 | sney | #debian-arm is the place to ask about hardware-specific kb behavior. I've only ever seen that on a cheap laptop. |
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| 04:47.27 | CyberManifest | sney: theoretically if I were to place raspi on an SD card, how would I go about an installer to another location ? I mean is there an installer package I can download? |
| 04:47.33 | sney | it's summer in north america right now, there's some heat, but every qualified opinion I've ever heard about rpi overheating has been "don't worry about it, it's within spec" - a lot of embedded stuff is happy to run hot because that's how it was designed. |
| 04:48.18 | sney | the arm64 installer can be found at https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/arm64/iso-cd/ |
| 04:48.22 | CyberManifest | sney: but I enable overvolting and my VRAM is taxing on the processor |
| 04:48.46 | sney | note that qualified opinion doesn't include randos on reddit |
| 04:49.00 | sney | you shouldn't trust me either, tbh. if it's from rpi.org it's probably legit |
| 04:50.10 | CyberManifest | sney: so I burn that debian-10.4.0-arm64-netinst.iso to SD card and boot and follow allong like typical ? |
| 04:50.45 | sney | that's how it usually works. I haven't tried it on a pi3 so I can't tell you what to expect, but might as well give it a shot |
| 04:50.57 | CyberManifest | doesn't include randos on reddit what's that ? |
| 04:51.56 | CyberManifest | sney: well I tried the aarch64 mini.iso and it didn't work and neither did armhf mini.iso |
| 04:52.23 | CyberManifest | so I'll give this a try and see, if not I know how to get back to where I am, thanks to all your help :) |
| 04:52.31 | sney | the key word is "qualified" - a lot of people on the internet, forums, reddit, have opinions and personal experiences that may or may not be useful. qualified opinions come from actual experts. in the case of the pi, that's raspbian developers and people from the rpi foundation. everyone else is guessing |
| 04:52.53 | sney | if you're running arm64 on your pi3 now, then arm64 is the correct arch, not any of the other ones. (armel might work but you would hate it) |
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| 04:53.31 | CyberManifest | aarch64 is ARM64 isn't it ? |
| 04:53.57 | CyberManifest | and armhf is what Raspbian uses (being 32 bit) |
| 04:54.14 | chung705 | Does anyone have experience with Docker Swarm on Debian ? |
| 04:55.13 | chung705 | I ran into a strange bug with Docker and Debian, not sure if it is caused by Debian or Docker |
| 04:55.16 | chung705 | https://forums.docker.com/t/docker-swarm-networking-port-doesnt-work-on-debian-10/97104 |
| 04:55.47 | sney | CyberManifest: aarch64 is a different name for arm64. if you haven't tried the debian arm64 iso, then try it. debian's armhf doesn't support the original rpi cpu, which is the whole reason raspbian exists. maybe it would work on the pi3? |
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| 04:57.35 | CyberManifest | sney: I'm on the pi3, I'll give that ISO from the link you provided a try, thank you again for all the help and support, you're a standup person :) Kudos |
| 04:57.43 | sney | np, have fun |
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| 05:06.23 | CyberManifest | sney: well so far the net install iso isn't booting... let me try the XFCE image |
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| 05:07.40 | Aurora_v_kosmose | Something went weird with the grub update for anyone else? |
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| 05:08.21 | Aurora_v_kosmose | Half of my VMs on one host got grub_calloc error. |
| 05:10.19 | diogenes_ | Aurora_v_kosmose, it showed an error executing some pearl script /tpm/xyz but it's because my /tmp is mounted with noexec, other than that all seem to work. |
| 05:10.43 | Aurora_v_kosmose | I got "error: symbol `grub_calloc' not found." |
| 05:13.02 | CyberManifest | sney: the XFCE image isn't booting either :( I don't understand... If I was running ARM64 before why wouldn't these images boot too ? |
| 05:13.35 | CyberManifest | sney: I guess it's cause of the non-free boot blobs or something ? |
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| 05:18.57 | Aurora_v_kosmose | It's almost as if grub stopped to ask for interactive dialogue, failed because I was updating via a script, but exited with 0 |
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| 05:19.05 | Aurora_v_kosmose | Because I'm having to run grub-install on all nodes |
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| 05:35.13 | diogenes_ | CyberManifest, try non-free image. |
| 05:35.21 | diogenes_ | !firmware iso |
| 05:35.22 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
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| 05:35.55 | CyberManifest | diogenes_: I don't think you understand my situation |
| 05:37.02 | CyberManifest | diogenes_ that's for AMD64 not ARM64 |
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| 05:39.55 | x2 | hi I installed the security updates on buster and it hangs on grub boot complaining about missing grub_calloc |
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| 05:42.53 | ax562 | hello |
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| 05:59.03 | Ashleee | cyberbanjo, with a bit of luck you can grab kernel and dtb and then debian aarch64 installer netinst tarball and put it on sd card and make it boot and then "reinstall" debian onto the sd card you just booted from (or anywhere really), but I don't know how the boot process on RPi works because it boots via the GPU that loads the IPL etc |
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| 06:20.09 | kasbahh | hi on start of my box, I got error: symbol grub_calloc not found |
| 06:20.29 | kasbahh | after the update yesterday |
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| 06:22.21 | S3xyL1nux | how come i never get an update notification , kasbahh: did you update manually by "sudo apt upgrade" |
| 06:23.04 | kasbahh | S3xyLinux: I think I did it via discover (the gui stuff) |
| 06:23.18 | S3xyL1nux | aha |
| 06:23.46 | kasbahh | S3xyLinux: I already repaired it by booting from another usb with boot-repair |
| 06:24.07 | kasbahh | S3xyLinux: but it seems others have the same problem |
| 06:25.54 | S3xyL1nux | well mate , even windows crashing after update |
| 06:26.28 | kasbahh | S3xyLinux: ok, no problem :) |
| 06:26.55 | S3xyL1nux | no wait its not the answer of your question |
| 06:27.07 | S3xyL1nux | i am just posting a comment |
| 06:27.21 | kasbahh | S3xyLinux: it works now, at least for me |
| 06:27.32 | kasbahh | S3xyLinux: after repair |
| 06:27.42 | S3xyL1nux | great |
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| 06:28.48 | kasbahh | S3xyLinux: it seems grub-update or grub-install has not been called automatically on my machine |
| 06:29.10 | kasbahh | S3xyLinux: after security update related to grub2 |
| 06:29.50 | kasbahh | S3xyLinux: I think this is the same issue: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1263125/how-to-fix-a-grub-boot-error-symbol-grub-calloc-not-found |
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| 06:30.25 | S3xyL1nux | you may try "update-grub" command next time before rebooting |
| 06:30.51 | kasbahh | S3xyLinux: yes, I will do it |
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| 06:44.08 | Ashleee | whoops I pinged the wrong person an hour ago :D cybermanifet is gone already |
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| 07:17.02 | nvz | Ashleee: ping |
| 07:17.10 | nvz | smirks and wanders off |
| 07:17.11 | Ashleee | yes? |
| 07:17.12 | Ashleee | :P |
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| 07:24.58 | Haohmaru | pulls nvz back |
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| 07:40.50 | timothywcrane | looking for the sources for the progs in apt-utils |
| 07:40.50 | timothywcrane | cannot find it on sources.debian.org under apt-utils or the sub programs it contains |
| 07:40.50 | timothywcrane | apt-extracttemplates |
| 07:40.50 | timothywcrane | apt-ftparchive |
| 07:40.50 | timothywcrane | apt-sortpkgs |
| 07:40.50 | timothywcrane | apt/planners/apt |
| 07:40.50 | timothywcrane | apt/solvers/apt |
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| 07:43.39 | timothywcrane | wow, got kicked for that? |
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| 07:45.53 | ratrace | !pastebin |
| 07:45.54 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
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| 07:48.12 | timothywcrane | apt-extracttemplates, apt-ftparchive, apt-sortpkgs, apt/planners/apt, |
| 07:48.12 | timothywcrane | apt/solvers/apt |
| 07:49.07 | timothywcrane | all in apt-utils... anyone know where to locate sources? |
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| 07:56.19 | themill | timothywcrane: where did you look? |
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| 07:57.05 | timothywcrane | searching on sources.debian.org |
| 07:57.13 | themill | that's almost an answer :( |
| 07:57.26 | themill | https://sources.debian.org/src/apt/2.1.7/ |
| 07:58.25 | timothywcrane | the utils package is not seperate? Super. Just thought it was different as it has a different packages page |
| 07:58.34 | themill | ,source apt-utils |
| 07:58.35 | judd | Package apt-utils in buster -- source: apt |
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| 07:59.01 | timothywcrane | thanks... must be getting late ;) |
| 07:59.40 | themill | np |
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| 08:02.15 | timothywcrane | should have known by the listing of exactly the same version number... duh |
| 08:03.27 | timothywcrane | wonder why apt-utils are not mentioned as an included package on apt but listed by themselves |
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| 08:04.59 | timothywcrane | none of them are even in the filelist |
| 08:05.12 | Hund | I have an issue with cron being one hour late. The clock is on time though? |
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| 08:13.51 | themill | timothywcrane: there's a difference between a source package and a binary package. A source package can make a lot of different binary packages. |
| 08:13.57 | themill | ,binaries apt |
| 08:13.58 | judd | Source apt in buster: Binaries: apt, apt-doc, apt-transport-https, apt-utils, libapt-inst2.0, libapt-pkg5.0, libapt-pkg-dev, libapt-pkg-doc |
| 08:14.21 | timothywcrane | only place to find them listed was in the master on salsa, thanks mill, amkes more sense now |
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| 08:14.24 | timothywcrane | makes |
| 08:14.50 | themill | packages.d.o and tracker.d.o give you links between source and binary packages |
| 08:15.12 | themill | (as does apt-cache show $binpackage; apt-cache showsrc $srcpackage) |
| 08:15.35 | judd | Or you ask me! |
| 08:15.46 | timothywcrane | ;) |
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| 08:16.23 | timothywcrane | and here I am slogging through the SLOCs |
| 08:16.57 | judd | points and laughs at timothywcrane |
| 08:17.07 | timothywcrane | didn't even think of the tracker |
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| 08:20.16 | timothywcrane | punch apt-utils into the tracker.d.o and apt pops right up. LOL |
| 08:20.27 | timothywcrane | serch |
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| 08:20.33 | timothywcrane | search |
| 08:22.13 | timothywcrane | yep, past 3Am... hmmm |
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| 08:29.06 | timothywcrane | should have quit when I got kicked for whitespace... you guys have a good night |
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| 08:32.42 | mav | hello :) anyone know if font rendering is broken in bullseye/sid? only getting boxes with hex values in them for non-ttf fonts (pcf/bcf etc), ttf/otf seems to work fine |
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| 08:33.59 | mav | even on a default install with GNOME, many fonts that come installed with the system do not work either |
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| 08:35.09 | ratrace | mav: I think pango dropped support for bitmap fonts |
| 08:35.09 | Haohmaru | mav pics? |
| 08:35.19 | Haohmaru | oh, gnome |
| 08:35.36 | Haohmaru | wtf, bitmap fonts are f*cking important |
| 08:36.06 | Haohmaru | i find it annoying that they are disabled by default >:/ |
| 08:36.21 | ratrace | https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/pango/-/issues/386 |
| 08:36.46 | mav | ratrace: ahh, interesting |
| 08:38.35 | ratrace | and if that wasn't enough, get ready for kerningpocalypse in bullseye: https://github.com/harfbuzz/harfbuzz/issues/2394 |
| 08:39.04 | ratrace | but at least the software is $0.00 and Libre! |
| 08:40.37 | mav | https://mavvert.home.xs4all.nl/fonts.png |
| 08:41.01 | mav | i use bitmaps everywhere, upgraded system, everything breaks :D |
| 08:41.54 | Haohmaru | i need my bitmap font for anything code editting |
| 08:41.59 | Haohmaru | :/ |
| 08:42.00 | mav | ^^ yes, this |
| 08:42.50 | ratrace | awwwww. |
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| 08:46.55 | mav | right, so need to downgrade pango to 1.43 and pin it |
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| 08:54.00 | mav | https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/issues/17595 this explains why its working fine on my voidlinux systems, they decided to downgrade pango until there's a proper solution |
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| 08:57.49 | EdePopede | amirite that geeqie can't even copy the path of an image? |
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| 08:58.10 | EdePopede | it has some "copy path" entry in right click menus, but they look more like "duplicate entry" |
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| 09:09.33 | sfx2496 | hi, how would I unattended configure configuration for UnattendedUpgrades apt-daily.timer? can IO some how pipe towards it |
| 09:09.36 | sfx2496 | '? |
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| 09:10.26 | genr8_ | its all files anyway |
| 09:11.00 | tarzeau | Haohmaru, mav: you might be interested in bitmappifying vectorized monospaced fonts? see https://packages.debian.org/sid/bdf2sfd |
| 09:11.02 | sfx2496 | ea: sudo /bin/sh -c 'echo "" >> /etc/systemd/system/apt-daily.timer.d/.#override.conf6b2da6a2739' |
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| 09:12.25 | Haohmaru | uh, tarzeau well my fav font is not 8:16 (1:2) aspect ratio |
| 09:12.45 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: link/screenshots/names? |
| 09:12.58 | Haohmaru | and aren't vector fonts kinda "slower" to render? |
| 09:12.59 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: bdf2sfd is on github awayting patches :) |
| 09:13.27 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: oh wait, that's vectorizing bitmap fonts, not bitmappifying vector fonts, but there's something for that too |
| 09:13.37 | sfx2496 | the apt-daily.timer.d config file is randomized :/ so update would change it |
| 09:13.42 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: https://github.com/ayoy/fontedit |
| 09:15.18 | Haohmaru | tarzeau https://i.imgur.com/SLhN3q1.png .. this font should be called "fixed 8 Regular" on linux |
| 09:15.25 | Haohmaru | it's eggcelent for code |
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| 09:16.35 | Psy-Q | i've inherited an snmp configuration on jessie (!) that since this night's libnsnmp upgrade seems to reject the extensions configured in snmpd.conf: /etc/snmp/snmpd.conf: line 111: Warning: Unknown token: extend. |
| 09:16.40 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: here's my favourite fonts for (setfont in console/fb): https://github.com/alexmyczko/ree/tree/master/fnt |
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| 09:17.11 | Haohmaru | pics? |
| 09:17.23 | Psy-Q | i realize this is all terribly unsupported but did that token really not exist on snmpd 5.7.2.1? |
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| 09:17.29 | Haohmaru | anyway, i hope bitmap fonts in linux don't get tossed out |
| 09:17.56 | Psy-Q | it seems the same config works on 5.7.3 |
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| 09:19.33 | Psy-Q | oh, there is also "Starting SNMP services::Error: Line 278: Parse error in chip name" |
| 09:19.38 | Psy-Q | this is more borked than anticipated |
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| 09:28.52 | sfx2496 | How can I unattended echo output towards systemctl unit file, without it popping me an temp file in the Nano editor? |
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| 09:42.30 | ratrace | sfx2496: can you be more specific? |
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| 09:43.39 | sfx2496 | I want to write the unit file from bash (just echo the lines needed for config) |
| 09:44.46 | sfx2496 | "sudo systemctl edit apt-daily.timer" is popping me Nemo the file editor |
| 09:45.27 | sfx2496 | with some unique temp file |
| 09:46.01 | mav | tarzeau: interesting, i'll check that out later :) |
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| 09:47.09 | WormholeTraveler | WHOAAAAA |
| 09:47.40 | WormholeTraveler | Hey guys. Is there any real difference between Ubuntu and Debian? |
| 09:47.59 | ratrace | !bad polls |
| 09:48.04 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: http://www.aiei.ch/linux/amiga/ amiga one, there's vector fonts on github |
| 09:48.09 | dpkg | The reasons we hate polls are because: 1) they are a massive waste of IRC and bandwidth and screen real estate when asked in a 700 person channel. Did you want 700 answers? 2) They're often a prelude to isolating one helper and barraging him or her in /msg. BAD! 3) We don't care about Ubuntu, this is #debian. |
| 09:48.27 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: https://www.3eality.com/productions/reality-adlib-tracker the 8x8 font ripped with ree/fontdump |
| 09:48.37 | tarzeau | from the binary, unpacked, uncompressed :) |
| 09:48.41 | ratrace | sfx2496: you can create a systemd unit in any way you want. systemctl edit is a convenience method when using an editor. don't forget to run systemctl daemon-reload after you change a unit file |
| 09:49.04 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: the ocr one is manually drawn ocr-b font for 8x16 vga done by me |
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| 09:49.52 | WormholeTraveler | :| |
| 09:50.05 | Haohmaru | i don't like this one.. i do have a 8x16 font which is hardcoded into a program: http://antonsavov.net/cms/public/img/c0nb0x_101_pe.png |
| 09:50.14 | Haohmaru | but it's too big for code |
| 09:51.09 | Haohmaru | i also like fixedsys |
| 09:51.22 | Haohmaru | it's big, but not too big |
| 09:51.23 | WormholeTraveler | BTW I have a switch that does VLAN. but my router does not, am I okay? |
| 09:52.02 | sfx2496 | ratrace: would /etc/systemd/system/apt-daily.timer.d/override.conf be the file to edit, or will that be overwritten on reload? |
| 09:53.22 | ratrace | sfx2496: with that form (aka "drop-in units") you can have units that only contain entries that override default. a /etc/systemd/system/apt-daily.timer unit would completely replace the default unit |
| 09:54.00 | ratrace | sfx2496: also, #systemd would be more helpful with systemd specific help, this is not debian specific |
| 09:54.16 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: should be easy to patch? |
| 09:54.25 | sfx2496 | k, ty |
| 09:54.30 | Haohmaru | patch what? |
| 09:54.39 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: i'm waiting for flashrom to support nvidia bios (the fonts are embedded and bios roms) i'd like to patch my video cards |
| 09:54.57 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: the program that hardcodes that bitmap font |
| 09:55.34 | Haohmaru | it's my program, i needed a bitmap font but not from the OS, so i found a good looking one (8x16) and hardcoded it in |
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| 09:56.19 | tarzeau | Haohmaru: heh :) |
| 09:56.21 | Haohmaru | i don't remember where i stole it from, it's hard to find now.. the other 8x16 fonts that come up are ugglier (IMO) |
| 09:56.40 | tarzeau | i hate the vga font in my reolink ip cameras... |
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| 10:01.51 | WormholeTraveler | anybody here used to run ubuntu and now stick w debian? why? |
| 10:02.35 | Haohmaru | me |
| 10:02.58 | tarzeau | WormholeTraveler: pink debian is more beautiful than orange debian? |
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| 10:05.50 | sarthe | ugh. i am drunk and have forgotten... how to check the installation status of a name package? I thought it was `apt-get status <package>` |
| 10:06.02 | sarthe | *named |
| 10:06.09 | Haohmaru | i come from crapdows, and as crapdows becomes more and more crap, i figured i need to get more serious into using linux.. i asked for a recommendation on what to use, given that i am interested in video/audio/music/photo/3D/whatnot, someone recommended ubuntustudio .. some time later i figured that this is just a crapbuntu pre-configured to install a certain bunch of programs, plus customized |
| 10:06.09 | Haohmaru | fancy UI theme and wallpapers.. stuff that you can do by installing a normal crapbuntu and then installing the programs you need |
| 10:06.32 | WormholeTraveler | you didnt like ubuntu? why |
| 10:06.35 | Haohmaru | WormholeTraveler then i heard bad things about crapbuntu, so i went to debian |
| 10:07.00 | ratrace | Haohmaru: very much offtopic here tho |
| 10:07.08 | Haohmaru | i know :/ |
| 10:07.10 | WormholeTraveler | Hows that offtopic :| |
| 10:07.18 | Haohmaru | on-topic: debian ftw |
| 10:07.27 | WormholeTraveler | okay. |
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| 10:07.37 | sarthe | surge@animal:/opt/b/games/nwn-1.5/GOG Games/Neverwinter Nights Enhanced Edition$ apt-get status libstdc++6 |
| 10:07.37 | sarthe | E: Invalid operation status |
| 10:07.44 | ratrace | WormholeTraveler: because it's not debian support issue, it's general chat, there's #debian-offtopic for that |
| 10:07.46 | WormholeTraveler | Thanks tho |
| 10:08.33 | ratrace | sarthe: dpkg -l libstdc++6 or dpkg -l | grep <stuff> |
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| 10:09.00 | WormholeTraveler | does debian 10.4 use wayland? |
| 10:09.15 | sarthe | ratrace, close enough. tx |
| 10:09.35 | ratrace | WormholeTraveler: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#wayland-by-default-on-gnome |
| 10:10.00 | WormholeTraveler | what about cinnamon? |
| 10:11.06 | WormholeTraveler | oh cinnamon doesnt have wayland support yet. |
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| 10:12.28 | ratrace | WormholeTraveler: wayland is a protocol, so the question then becomes about specific compositors supporting the protocol. gnome's mutter is one. kwin another (afaik). sway is i3-wm implementation for wayland. and then some |
| 10:13.10 | WormholeTraveler | does gnome + wayland use less resources? |
| 10:13.56 | Haohmaru | i kinda doubt.. for less resources look into LXDE or xfce4 |
| 10:14.14 | ratrace | if anything it uses more due to CSD and moving the renderer into client's domain. but that's just pure speculation and conjecture, I never ran benchmarks :) |
| 10:14.33 | Haohmaru | those two don't use wayland tho |
| 10:16.17 | WormholeTraveler | thanks. Ill just stick with cinnamon. |
| 10:16.23 | ratrace | I think phoronix ran some benchmarks, but take those numbers with a trainful of salt; as one should always with moronix^W phoronix |
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| 11:11.14 | ElectroXexual | How do I hide (or enable auto hide) the kde panel (kicker) from linux shell? I want to do it so I can Hide/Show it through a global shortcut. |
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| 11:35.58 | password2 | hi there |
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| 11:36.36 | password2 | how do i mount an existing raid array? |
| 11:38.44 | ratrace | password2: assuming linux software raid (md), and mdadm package installed, it should be automatically detected and assembled, so you mount the corresponding /dev/md* device. |
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| 11:41.45 | password2 | is there a way i can check what the raid details is without mdadm , not finind it in the live iamge |
| 11:42.05 | password2 | and my live image is not detecting my lan for some reason |
| 11:42.07 | ratrace | no, mdadm is the tool to query and modify the (md) raid |
| 11:42.33 | ratrace | which live image is that? |
| 11:43.40 | password2 | debian |
| 11:43.56 | password2 | i downlaoded a live image today , to check if this server will be able to access the raid |
| 11:44.35 | password2 | the 'debian-live-10.4.0-amd64-cinnamon' |
| 11:45.43 | ratrace | you sure there's no /sbin/mdadm ? |
| 11:46.09 | ratrace | can you pastebin cat /proc/mdstat ? |
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| 11:46.58 | password2 | pastbin is hard , since i don't have networking working |
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| 11:47.59 | password2 | cat says no such fiel |
| 11:48.01 | password2 | file |
| 11:48.24 | ratrace | you sure there's no /sbin/mdadm ? |
| 11:48.55 | password2 | yes |
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| 11:49.19 | ratrace | I don't know debian's live image too well, but if it's like some other distros' live images, maybe you can apt install mdadm ? |
| 11:49.22 | password2 | i run 'ls /sbin/ | grep md' to check |
| 11:49.46 | password2 | where would i get package? |
| 11:50.06 | password2 | i tried apt0get isntall mdadm |
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| 11:51.10 | ratrace | and? |
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| 11:52.54 | password2 | says theres no installtion candidate |
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| 11:54.50 | ratrace | !sources.list |
| 11:54.50 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 11:55.26 | ratrace | password2: see if these entries at least are present in /etc/apt/sources.list ; my take is it _should_ be able to use apt, even if it maybe isn't set up to do so by default |
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| 11:56.43 | password2 | apt is pointing to a website |
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| 11:58.06 | ratrace | what? |
| 11:58.15 | password2 | i mean to an internet server |
| 11:58.23 | password2 | not to a local resource |
| 11:58.48 | ratrace | password2: those listed in the factoid above? |
| 11:59.13 | password2 | only the first one |
| 11:59.19 | password2 | deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main |
| 11:59.32 | password2 | is ifconfig still a thing? |
| 12:00.01 | ratrace | password2: it's deprecated by iproute's `ip` command, but available for installation iirc if you _really_ want it |
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| 12:00.57 | ratrace | the first sources.list entry should suffice to fetch mdadm |
| 12:01.10 | password2 | yes , networking is not working |
| 12:01.24 | password2 | my ethernet is not showing |
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| 12:02.04 | ratrace | password2: what devices do you get for `ip link` command? |
| 12:03.17 | password2 | ok i found an wifi dongle and that is talking |
| 12:03.28 | password2 | running apt update real quick |
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| 12:06.33 | password2 | ok , mdadm is installed |
| 12:07.10 | password2 | what do i do now? |
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| 12:09.20 | Enissay | Is there a simple trick to replace each line from /etc/hosts to transform for example: 127.0.0.1 localhost loopback to: 127.0.0.x prefix_localhost prefix_loopback x is a digit & prefix is the same for all hosts names (can be 1 to 4 hostnames per line) |
| 12:09.20 | ratrace | check if it assembled, cat /proc/mdstat . see if lists something like md127: active raid... sda... |
| 12:10.08 | password2 | nothign like that |
| 12:10.14 | ratrace | Enissay: you could use sed, but I don't quite understand what you want? |
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| 12:11.07 | ratrace | password2: what about running mdadm --detail --scan as root? |
| 12:11.14 | ratrace | does it lists any ARRAY entries? |
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| 12:13.32 | password2 | can i tell it nada |
| 12:13.38 | password2 | *it says nada |
| 12:14.08 | ratrace | are you sure you have linux software raid array then? |
| 12:14.31 | password2 | not 100% sure its pure linux , but it came from a linux based nas |
| 12:15.04 | quadrathoch2 | password2 wich nas are you talking about? there a lot of ones which use btrfs |
| 12:15.11 | password2 | synology |
| 12:15.25 | ratrace | synology uses mdadm iirc, plus custom patches, under btrfs |
| 12:15.44 | ratrace | not sure regular linux md can access that |
| 12:15.48 | password2 | i used deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main |
| 12:15.57 | password2 | urg sorry , paste failed |
| 12:16.15 | quadrathoch2 | ratrace I thought they use btrfs directly? (with patches) |
| 12:16.19 | password2 | sudo mdadm --examine /dev/sd* |
| 12:16.26 | password2 | and it seems to find something |
| 12:16.40 | ratrace | quadrathoch2: no, they add a layer below btrfs for raid. now I'm not sure of exact details of that |
| 12:16.53 | quadrathoch2 | :( damn kay |
| 12:16.53 | ratrace | password2: you have network now, pastebin :) |
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| 12:18.30 | password2 | i'll try , I'm on a 720 disp |
| 12:18.38 | password2 | what should i paste bin? |
| 12:19.13 | ratrace | according to this, mdadm _should_ work tho: https://www.synology.com/en-global/knowledgebase/DSM/tutorial/Storage/How_can_I_recover_data_from_my_DiskStation_using_a_PC |
| 12:19.17 | ratrace | !pastebin |
| 12:19.17 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 12:20.16 | jrtc27 | Enissay: gawk '{ n = split($0, a, " ", b); if (a[1] == "127.0.0.1") { a[1] = "127.0.0.x"; for (i = 2; i <= n; i++) { a[i] = "prefix_" a[i] } } line = b[0]; for (i = 1; i <= n; i++) { line = line a[i] b[i]; } print line}' |
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| 12:20.28 | ratrace | password2: so you could try mdadm --assemble --scan --force and see if that creates any /dev/md* devices, visible under /proc/mdstat also |
| 12:20.45 | jrtc27 | Enissay: that'll do exactly what you asked for, though we're all a bit confused what you _actually_ are trying to do |
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| 12:21.59 | password2 | oooh --assemble scan said it made an araay with 4 drives |
| 12:22.22 | password2 | hw do i mount it? |
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| 12:22.50 | ratrace | password2: assuming there's no lvm, you can mount /dev/md0 /mnt if that's md0 it created (could be md127 too) |
| 12:23.49 | password2 | unkown filesystem type LVM2_member |
| 12:23.53 | ratrace | password2: but according to teh synology docs I posted above, there's maybe LVM atop of that so you need to activate it with vgchange -ay , then you mount /dev/vgX/lvY /mnt where vgX is the actual volume group and lvY is the actual LV |
| 12:24.13 | password2 | its unde /dev/md/ |
| 12:24.14 | ratrace | password2: you might need to apt install lvm2 first |
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| 12:27.05 | password2 | i installed but same error |
| 12:27.27 | password2 | ah |
| 12:27.33 | password2 | it would help if i read |
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| 12:32.41 | ratrace | password2: under /dev/md/ are "named" arrays, but you'll see they symlink to /dev/mdX where X is a number |
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| 13:00.10 | password2 | ratrace i came right , sorry for going afk |
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| 13:23.45 | jstolarek | so, yesterday's updates to grub broke my dual-boot with Windows :-/ Linux boots fine, but selecting Windows from grub results in blank screen and nothing happening. I can boot Windows though if I select windows bootloader from bios |
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| 13:25.08 | CtrlC | is there any way to tunnel the whole system over a ssh connection? Like how a VPN does but with socks5 basically. |
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| 13:28.28 | amlchief | yes, use redsocks for that |
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| 13:36.05 | jstolarek | Ha, looks like more people have problems after yesterday updates: https://old.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/i0lg5b/cannot_dual_boot_into_windows_anymore_after_last/ |
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| 13:51.13 | g0zzy | I've messed up the perms on /etc/sudoers and sudo refuses to perform. Unfortunately that was before i changed the root password so i can't su. Any ideas without unmounting the root partition and fiddling with the files? |
| 13:52.09 | greycat | !i forgot root's password |
| 13:52.09 | dpkg | For GRUB: 1) press 'e' to edit the kernel setting in the grub command line (add 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of it) 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) 'reboot -d -f' (exec /sbin/init should work); For LILO: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at the LILO boot prompt (hold Shift while booting), steps 2-6 are the same; For yaboot: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at yaboot prompt. |
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| 13:52.44 | g0zzy | Thanks |
| 13:54.14 | g0zzy | It's a headless box to which i ssh so it's probably easier to mess about with the medium |
| 13:55.02 | greycat | Lesson learned, I hope. "I will not exit from my root shell until I have *tested* my change." |
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| 14:16.38 | kittonian | hi all. is anyone here familiar with running davical? |
| 14:16.47 | dvs | !anyone |
| 14:16.47 | dpkg | Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>. |
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| 14:18.50 | g0zzy | :) |
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| 14:25.46 | kittonian | i am looking at alternative to radicale and one that looks promising is davical. All clients are Mac (desktops and mobile devices) and currently with Radicale we are seeing very slow update times between devices. Is this a better solution or is there something else I should be looking at? |
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| 14:50.30 | jstolarek | how do I resume interrupted session of bugreport? |
| 14:50.37 | jstolarek | I wrote a fullbugreport only to get an SMTP error |
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| 14:51.00 | jstolarek | now I have a draft file but can't find a way to submit it |
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| 14:58.08 | CrystalMath | so... suppose i had to run a script during early initialization, where should i add it? |
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| 14:58.55 | CrystalMath | (note: i'm using sysvinit) |
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| 14:59.34 | neilthereildeil | i was looking at the new boot hole vulnerability discovered in grub (CVE-2020-10713). the original blog post said i dont need grub2 in order to be vulnerable. how is that possible, if its a memory corruption in grub2? |
| 14:59.53 | greycat | CrystalMath: too vague. *how* early? what has to run before it? |
| 15:00.28 | CrystalMath | the script creates a static /dev file that is too unpredictable to have statically on the disk |
| 15:00.34 | CrystalMath | the dev file in question is /dev/rtcX |
| 15:00.46 | CrystalMath | it requires only sysfs |
| 15:00.53 | CrystalMath | it is needed to have RTC access |
| 15:01.07 | CrystalMath | by rtcX i mean it will create rtc0, rtc1, etc... |
| 15:01.15 | freenoodle | can someone give me a headsup with apt pinning? I am using Mobian, which is debian for the pinephone, and while some packages exist in both repos, the one from mobian should be preferred, which is what /etc/apt/preferences.d/mobian (or whatever the exact filename is) should ensure. apt policy libhandy-1-0 says: |
| 15:01.17 | freenoodle | libhandy-1-0: |
| 15:01.17 | freenoodle | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:01.17 | freenoodle | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:01.17 | freenoodle | <PROTECTED> |
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| 15:01.58 | greycat | CrystalMath: so, you either insert it (the S* symlink to it) into the rc2.d or rcS.d directory, whichever is appropriate, or you wimp out and use rc.local |
| 15:02.06 | greycat | in either case, you stop using sysvinit ASAP |
| 15:02.13 | greycat | it is a horror show |
| 15:02.25 | CrystalMath | i know, but debian doesn't package BSD init |
| 15:02.33 | CrystalMath | i wish debian had slackware's init system |
| 15:02.45 | CrystalMath | i want things to be even more retro, not more modern : |
| 15:02.49 | CrystalMath | :P |
| 15:02.58 | Nothing4You | is there an easy way to get a summary of how much storage all the volumes in an lvm thin pool can take up? |
| 15:03.20 | CrystalMath | greycat: i got rid of udev, as a part of the retroization process |
| 15:03.24 | CrystalMath | but now, no rtc :( |
| 15:03.52 | CrystalMath | i'll email the kernel folks about bringing back device 10,135 |
| 15:04.02 | neilthereildeil | heres the blog post: https://eclypsium.com/2020/07/29/theres-a-hole-in-the-boot/ |
| 15:04.05 | CrystalMath | this was present before kernel 2.6 |
| 15:04.12 | neilthereildeil | they say theres a vulnerablility in grub that can bypass secure boot |
| 15:04.30 | CrystalMath | i don't have EFI, so i don't have to worry :P |
| 15:04.31 | neilthereildeil | but this is the line i didnt understand "The vulnerability affects systems using Secure Boot, even if they are not using GRUB2." |
| 15:04.58 | neilthereildeil | how can a machine not using grub2 be affected, if the memory corruption is inside grub2? |
| 15:05.12 | neilthereildeil | if grub2 isnt installed, what parser will get corrupted? |
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| 15:07.16 | oxek | neilthereildeil: it's a problem because even if you're not using grub2 right now, an attacker with physical access to the machine (yeah I know) can replace your current bootloader with the previous vulnerable version of grub2 in order to bypass secure boot |
| 15:07.26 | oxek | hence all the necessary key revocations happening |
| 15:07.33 | neilthereildeil | ahh lol |
| 15:07.42 | JyZyXEL | neilthereildeil: the dbx revocation list is updated for all systems uefi |
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| 15:08.44 | neilthereildeil | JyZyXEL: yea, but whether or not the dbx revocation list is updated in my system, if i am not running grub2, i dont have to worry (as long as someone doesnt install vulnerable grub2) |
| 15:09.09 | JyZyXEL | someone else could run it for you |
| 15:09.25 | oxek | you don't have to worry about this vulnerability if no one malicious has physical access to your machine or root privileges |
| 15:09.56 | CrystalMath | BIOS is safe from the vulnerability :D |
| 15:10.03 | JyZyXEL | protected by not affording a house maid |
| 15:10.13 | CrystalMath | on my machine, you can boot whatever you want off a floppy |
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| 15:11.12 | greycat | after spending about 5 seconds trying to understand what that page is talking about, my understanding is that this "hole" only matters if you were actually TRYING to use Secure Boot as some sort of security mechanism against... something... instead of the Microsoft inflicted impediment to installing Linux that most of us perceive it as |
| 15:11.36 | CrystalMath | greycat: i suppose most people who see it that way disable it |
| 15:12.27 | oxek | at least they fixed a few bugs in grub2, which is nice... but it seems to be breaking systems, which is not so nice |
| 15:12.44 | CrystalMath | i upgraded grub recently |
| 15:12.48 | CrystalMath | hopefully it broke nothing |
| 15:12.59 | CrystalMath | meh, i'll go back to lilo |
| 15:12.59 | oxek | it seems to only break non-EFI systems |
| 15:13.03 | CrystalMath | err |
| 15:13.08 | CrystalMath | mine is a no-EFI |
| 15:13.10 | CrystalMath | :/ |
| 15:13.14 | oxek | did you reboot? |
| 15:13.16 | CrystalMath | no |
| 15:13.19 | oxek | don't reboot then |
| 15:13.33 | CrystalMath | power outages happen |
| 15:14.02 | CrystalMath | if i see GRUB fail to boot, that's it, i'm switching to LILO forever |
| 15:14.13 | CrystalMath | maybe i should install grub-legacy? |
| 15:14.37 | oxek | have a recovery plan ready then. Seems to involve downgrading to a vulnerable version as the only workaround now. |
| 15:14.43 | CrystalMath | i don't need EFI, it literally does not exist on my machines (either because they're old enough, or becuase i use legacy boot and don't acknowledge its existence) |
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| 15:15.07 | oxek | CrystalMath: good that you have a BIOS system that can boot off GPT formatted disks then |
| 15:15.15 | CrystalMath | nope, MBR-only |
| 15:15.18 | klys | oxec, clover-efi |
| 15:15.30 | oxek | CrystalMath: no 4TB drives? |
| 15:15.34 | CrystalMath | nope |
| 15:15.40 | oxek | yeah then you're fine |
| 15:15.41 | CrystalMath | i can't even fill 10% of my 1 TB drive |
| 15:15.46 | CrystalMath | i can't reach 250 GB used |
| 15:16.05 | CrystalMath | i'm way too minimalist |
| 15:16.30 | oxek | no btrfs snapshotting or similar? |
| 15:16.34 | CrystalMath | no |
| 15:16.44 | CrystalMath | i'm very retro |
| 15:17.29 | CrystalMath | so, grub-legacy then |
| 15:17.32 | oxek | looks that way. Still don't try to reboot while the issue is being investigated. |
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| 15:18.52 | oxek | does grub-legacy even play nicely with debian10 anyway? |
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| 15:19.32 | CrystalMath | i installed it :D |
| 15:19.33 | CrystalMath | removed grub2 |
| 15:19.38 | greycat | What do people actually try to *use* Secure Boot for, that they would care if it had a "hole"? |
| 15:20.24 | oxek | greycat: I guess it's a hobby, might be fun to play with. I tried importing my own signing keys, and signing bootloader & kernel. |
| 15:20.31 | klys | greycat, probably for embedded efi devices |
| 15:20.33 | oxek | was a fun exercise, but I gave it up |
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| 15:22.40 | CrystalMath | okay, i did grub-install to make sure |
| 15:22.51 | CrystalMath | i think grub-legacy is now installed on the MBR |
| 15:23.07 | klys | crystalmath, you did grub-install to the mbr? use install-mbr and install grub to a partition. |
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| 15:23.35 | CrystalMath | i did grub-install yes |
| 15:23.57 | CrystalMath | i see nothing called install-mbr |
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| 15:24.38 | klys | a while back (long time), grub2 had a bug where it couldn't be installed to a partition, so folks started using it in the mbr. install-mbr is in teh mbr package. sort of like fdisk /mbr |
| 15:24.50 | CrystalMath | klys: i installed grub 1 |
| 15:24.54 | CrystalMath | aka grub-legacy |
| 15:24.57 | CrystalMath | i'm leaving grub2 |
| 15:25.01 | klys | grystalmath, yes, I'm familiar |
| 15:25.05 | klys | crystalmath, yes, I'm familiar |
| 15:27.10 | CrystalMath | btw, i compile my own kernel, if any change to the kernel is needed that's not a problem at all |
| 15:27.32 | CrystalMath | i'm just not sure if this thing will boot |
| 15:29.05 | CrystalMath | i guess i could dump the bootsector and inspect it myself |
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| 15:29.27 | klys | crystalmath, you can test it with qemu (specify root=/notexist on the kernel command line) |
| 15:30.20 | klys | crystalmath, alternatively you could dump your partition table and menu.lst file and send me a paste |
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| 15:31.35 | CrystalMath | (hd0,1) that should be it |
| 15:31.44 | CrystalMath | the second partition on the first hard disk |
| 15:31.56 | klys | correct. |
| 15:32.44 | CrystalMath | it's using root=UUID=... |
| 15:32.49 | CrystalMath | i'm a little worried about that |
| 15:32.53 | CrystalMath | i have no udev |
| 15:32.53 | greycat | "Secondly, in grub-legacy, the partition number starts at 0, not 1 like in Linux, so subtract 1 from the linux partition number. And in grub2, it starts at 1." |
| 15:32.56 | greycat | Yikes. |
| 15:33.00 | CrystalMath | hopefully that's not a problem |
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| 15:33.15 | klys | that is a problem, crystalmath, I think |
| 15:33.18 | CrystalMath | there's no /dev/.../by-uuid/ |
| 15:33.45 | CrystalMath | then how do i tell debian not to use crappy UUIDs |
| 15:33.54 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 15:33.55 | CrystalMath | and just write /dev/sda2 like a normal person |
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| 15:34.14 | greycat | There's limits to what I can stand. |
| 15:34.37 | CrystalMath | why would the kernel need udev? |
| 15:34.41 | shibboleth | we talking fstab? |
| 15:34.49 | CrystalMath | shibboleth: no, menu.lst |
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| 15:35.06 | greycat | Not only fstab. Also the boot loader has to pass it to the kernel. |
| 15:35.13 | shibboleth | CrystalMath, short story: the same block storage device may not *always* be /dev/sda |
| 15:35.27 | shibboleth | the uuids are there to prevent any ambiguity |
| 15:35.34 | CrystalMath | shibboleth: that's a risk i will have to take, i have a static /dev |
| 15:35.43 | greycat | You either use UUIDs, or Labels. You do not use /dev/sdxy. |
| 15:35.55 | CrystalMath | CONFIG_DEVTMPFS=n |
| 15:35.55 | shibboleth | CrystalMath, sure, but it's not a risk worth taking *by default* |
| 15:35.57 | greycat | Declaring yourself "retro" does not excuse incompetence. |
| 15:35.59 | shibboleth | hence, the *defaults* |
| 15:36.12 | CrystalMath | oh, i get it |
| 15:36.29 | CrystalMath | but on my system it has been /dev/sda for the last 9 years |
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| 15:36.33 | CrystalMath | before that it was hda :D |
| 15:36.36 | oxek | CrystalMath: there really is a reason why grub-legacy is considered... legacy |
| 15:36.48 | CrystalMath | oxek: legacy ain't the problem, the UUID is |
| 15:37.06 | CrystalMath | i have a kernel that will boot with DEVTMPFS support and udev isn't deleted per se |
| 15:37.09 | CrystalMath | so udev will run with that one |
| 15:37.31 | CrystalMath | thus this shouldn't be unbootable, really, but i really ought to fix that |
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| 15:38.53 | shibboleth | CrystalMath, windows up until win8 had terrible track record when it came to it booting under diff configurations |
| 15:39.28 | shibboleth | this wasn't due to the device "name" but due to the mass storage driver windows was set up to use |
| 15:40.04 | shibboleth | for linux/grub, basically, the same block device might be named sda or hda based on whether the bios is set to ide/legacy or ahci/sata |
| 15:40.23 | CrystalMath | okay, i won't use IDE legacy |
| 15:40.23 | shibboleth | and the defaults are there to prevent that being a dealbreaker in terms of booting |
| 15:40.28 | CrystalMath | yes i'm retro but, come on :P |
| 15:41.00 | CrystalMath | why pretend that it's not an AHCI controller, when it is |
| 15:41.05 | shibboleth | and it's basically just a matter of "blkid /dev/foo"? |
| 15:41.09 | shibboleth | use that uuid? |
| 15:41.14 | CrystalMath | shibboleth: okay but i don't have udev |
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| 15:41.19 | CrystalMath | shibboleth: i don't have devtmpfs either |
| 15:41.27 | CrystalMath | shibboleth: /dev is static |
| 15:41.34 | CrystalMath | it has static files in there, corresponding to devices |
| 15:41.38 | RoyK | shibboleth: or just use /dev/disk/by-id/something |
| 15:41.41 | klys | on a related note, I can't tell what sda is on some of my systems. it appears to be 8 GiB on one of them, totally unpartitioned. |
| 15:41.45 | CrystalMath | RoyK: does not work without udev |
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| 15:42.12 | CrystalMath | RoyK: or let's say, without CONFIG_DEVTMPFS in the kernel |
| 15:42.22 | CrystalMath | i'm trying to get rid of CONFIG_DEVTMPFS |
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| 15:42.27 | CrystalMath | on this machine |
| 15:42.46 | CrystalMath | it's been /dev/sda for 9 years in a row, i think it will continue to be that |
| 15:43.01 | CrystalMath | or at least i'll bet my ability to boot on it |
| 15:43.53 | shibboleth | the devil is often found in the details, is this some embedded setup and due to space limitations? |
| 15:44.14 | shibboleth | basically: why are you compiling it/setting it up this way? |
| 15:44.39 | shibboleth | CrystalMath, there is always LILO :P |
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| 15:49.26 | CrystalMath | shibboleth: no, just retrofanatism |
| 15:50.03 | CrystalMath | but retrofanatism has some limits, i guess |
| 15:50.08 | CrystalMath | i use a 64-bit kernel |
| 15:50.16 | CrystalMath | and everything's 64-bit |
| 15:50.40 | klys | so test it with qemu-system-x86_64 |
| 15:51.14 | nvz | heh.. |
| 15:51.36 | CrystalMath | klys: i wonder how nasty that will be, if my filesystem gets mounted in two places |
| 15:51.56 | nvz | uh.. the mounting in two places isnt the issue |
| 15:51.56 | klys | crystalmath, just specify root=none on the kernel command line |
| 15:52.06 | CrystalMath | and if i miss the opportunity |
| 15:52.12 | CrystalMath | and grub starts |
| 15:52.12 | nvz | its the being used simultaenously that is the issue |
| 15:52.24 | CrystalMath | nvz: right, this isn't a bind mount or anything |
| 15:52.32 | CrystalMath | maybe i could use snapshot=true with qemu |
| 15:52.33 | shibboleth | # Uncomment if you don't want GRUB to pass "root=UUID=xxx" parameter to Linux |
| 15:52.33 | shibboleth | GRUB_DISABLE_LINUX_UUID=true |
| 15:52.34 | klys | yeah that could be an issue if you don't test properly |
| 15:52.42 | CrystalMath | shibboleth: doesn't work with grub-legacy i think |
| 15:53.12 | CrystalMath | i booted with the devtmpfs kernel so udev exists now (because of the temporary /dev/rtc setback!) |
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| 15:53.21 | klys | by properly I mean edit the menu.lst file |
| 15:54.00 | klys | well looks like it works anyways |
| 15:54.26 | CrystalMath | you know what, i'm gonna edit update-grub |
| 15:54.30 | CrystalMath | i'll kick the if out |
| 15:54.35 | CrystalMath | and just make it ignore UUIDs |
| 15:54.56 | klys | I'm not positive UUIDs don't work |
| 15:55.13 | klys | grub2 uses them |
| 15:55.19 | CrystalMath | there, now it works |
| 15:55.26 | CrystalMath | on grub2 they were disabled |
| 15:55.36 | CrystalMath | i changed /usr/sbin/update-grub :P |
| 15:55.44 | CrystalMath | now it will never generate UUIDs |
| 15:55.50 | CrystalMath | it's just a temporary hackfix |
| 15:56.04 | CrystalMath | because of another temporary hackfix (using DEVTMPFS because of the goddamn missing device 10,135) |
| 15:56.31 | quadrathoch2 | http://paste.debian.net/1158324 Anybody an idea why /etc and /var are not mounted on buster + bpo kernel? |
| 15:56.34 | CrystalMath | i never even knew linux before 2.6, which did things the proper UNIX way |
| 15:56.53 | klys | grub2 also changes the kernel commandline and says you aren't allowed to do vga= by yourself |
| 15:57.03 | CrystalMath | klys: screw grub2 |
| 15:57.45 | klys | I just feel like it's a rational explanation why to not expect UUID= to work on a "standard" kernel command line |
| 15:57.50 | klys | hence the confusion |
| 15:58.11 | CrystalMath | i could disable UUIDs in the kernel, too |
| 15:58.36 | CrystalMath | i'm on a crusade against anything in the kernel that isn't like BSD |
| 15:59.55 | klys | quadrathoch2, is that /etc/fstab ?!! |
| 16:00.04 | quadrathoch2 | Yes |
| 16:00.11 | klys | okay which partition is it on |
| 16:00.49 | quadrathoch2 | Nvme0n1p3_crypt klys |
| 16:01.07 | quadrathoch2 | as the btrfs partition is additionally encrypted |
| 16:01.21 | klys | is it on subvol=@etc ? |
| 16:02.48 | quadrathoch2 | Yeah |
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| 16:03.14 | klys | quadrathoch2, can you see why I would say that isn't mounted? |
| 16:03.31 | quadrathoch2 | ahh found why maybe /var wasnât mounted, mistyped |
| 16:03.53 | quadrathoch2 | Let me reboot for a sec, it was written but canât remember |
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| 16:05.26 | quadrathoch2 | can only mount read only, missing /etc/machine-id. |
| 16:05.49 | quadrathoch2 | retries to read write which works but machine-id is still empty |
| 16:05.55 | klys | I would say you're probably missing a lot of stuff, and am wondering why it booted |
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| 16:07.55 | quadrathoch2 | Hm interesting, so he canât even really mount any of the subvol except / |
| 16:08.11 | klys | why would it? |
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| 16:08.17 | klys | do you have a script telling it to? |
| 16:08.33 | quadrathoch2 | Why wouldnât it? As it worked till this install |
| 16:08.50 | klys | because all your scripts are supposed to be in /etc which isn't there yet |
| 16:09.11 | quadrathoch2 | so a race condition? |
| 16:09.14 | klys | yes |
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| 16:09.38 | quadrathoch2 | hm weird. As this is not the first btrfs I Stall but still the only one that bugs out |
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| 16:19.12 | CrystalMath | klys: what would happen if i ran qemu on my root disk but with snapshot=on? |
| 16:19.17 | CrystalMath | maybe it would be safe(r) |
| 16:19.37 | klys | crystalmath, I'm not familiart, though there are ways to make it safe. |
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| 16:21.13 | CrystalMath | the bootsector seems fine |
| 16:21.18 | CrystalMath | i looked at it manually |
| 16:21.33 | klys | -snapshot : Write to temporary files instead of disk image files. In this case, the raw disk image you use is not written back. You can however force the write back by pressing C-a s (see disk_005fimages). |
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| 16:44.17 | CrystalMath | klys: i'm gonna write and submit a kernel patch which restores 10,135 if CONFIG_RTC_LEGACY_DEVICE is set (new config option) |
| 16:44.50 | klys | crystalmath, and this is for compatibility with v2.6 ? |
| 16:44.57 | CrystalMath | with pre-2.6 |
| 16:45.06 | CrystalMath | 10,135 was removed in 2.6 |
| 16:47.48 | klys | well I've used v1, v2.0.3x, v2.2, and v2.4 before. I remember framebuffers came out with v2.4, the early debians I used (such as slink) were 2.2 and 2.0, and trying out the original kernel with ldlinux.exe |
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| 16:50.31 | WormholeTraveler | netselect is a great program |
| 16:50.51 | WormholeTraveler | netselect-apt to be precise |
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| 16:53.28 | Regor | why midnight commandar doesnt open more than one file at a time in any tiling window wm... ? any option to fixit ? i checked mc in awesome,bspwm,,, but always the same story. i tried it also in floating mode ..but the same result .. |
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| 17:11.35 | CrystalMath | klys: uh oh, mbchk on vmlinuz says "No multiboot header." |
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| 17:17.25 | CrystalMath | klys: but it boots regardless in qemu (i tried!) |
| 17:17.30 | CrystalMath | so it should be okay |
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| 17:21.59 | CrystalMath | long live grub legacy |
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| 17:35.46 | cybrNaut | if sources.list is "deb tor://...ubuntu.com..", will it be http or https over tor? |
| 17:35.58 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 17:36.09 | greycat | !ubuntu |
| 17:36.09 | dpkg | Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>. |
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| 17:36.52 | cybrNaut | i have 3 systems: Mint, Ubuntu, Stretch. They all have apt-transports-tor |
| 17:36.59 | cybrNaut | greycat: you are in #debian |
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| 17:37.23 | cybrNaut | the question is a debian question |
| 17:40.03 | oxek | what is the proper order of commands to chroot into a root partition of a debian10 system, when booted off some usb stick? |
| 17:40.07 | oxek | I've come up with this https://paste.debian.net/hidden/da4a8ee5/ |
| 17:40.17 | oxek | but would appreciate any input regarding its correctness |
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| 17:40.54 | cybrNaut | i don't care which channel has someone who can answer the question |
| 17:41.05 | greycat | !chroot |
| 17:41.05 | dpkg | To chroot into your Debian system boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2). Mount your root filesystem with "mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target" and make /dev, /proc and /sys usable with "mount --rbind --make-rslave /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys". You can then chroot into the system with "chroot /target". |
| 17:42.33 | oxek | well that's pretty different from what I have, need to study up on it |
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| 17:47.29 | oxek | hmm, that's weird. It mounts fewer things than I do, uses rbind instead of bind, and does not even bind mount some of those dirs |
| 17:47.51 | oxek | plus --make-rslave is not well documented in man mount |
| 17:48.36 | greycat | I don't know anything about that, other than the name of the bot trigger. |
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| 18:01.52 | antto | ,v kdenlive |
| 18:01.53 | judd | Package: kdenlive on amd64 -- jessie: 0.9.10-2; stretch: 16.12.2-1; buster: 18.12.3-1; bullseye: 20.04.3-1; sid: 20.04.3-1; stretch-multimedia: 1:17.04.2-dmo1; buster-multimedia: 1:19.04.2-dmo1+deb10u2; bullseye-multimedia: 1:20.04.3-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 1:20.04.3-dmo1 |
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| 18:24.04 | BCMM | cybrNaut: please don't put ubuntu repos on your debian system! |
| 18:26.03 | CrystalMath | no need for the /dev thing if your chroot has a static /dev |
| 18:26.08 | CrystalMath | oops |
| 18:26.11 | CrystalMath | was scrolled way up |
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| 18:28.12 | kittonian | hi all. yesterday I was trying out software that required systemd, and used apt to install. however, as this is old system i got a failure message during install regarding overwrite a man page (known error). As I have no intention of using systemd I would very much like to revert back to where it was previously but apt is throwing errors because it hasn't completed the install. |
| 18:28.17 | kittonian | how do I clear it out |
| 18:29.14 | kittonian | the exact error is trying to overwrite '/usr/share/man/man8/halt.8.gz', which is also in package sysvinit 2.88dsf-41+deb7u1 |
| 18:29.37 | kittonian | which you can see from this stackexchange post https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/532360/attempt-to-upgrade-from-wheezy-results-in-conflict-between-systemd-sysv-and-sysv |
| 18:29.47 | kittonian | and I don't care about systemd |
| 18:30.04 | kittonian | I just want to get the server back to where it was before it tried to install systemd and its dependencies |
| 18:30.11 | CrystalMath | maybe download the source instead and modify it to not require systemd |
| 18:30.14 | kittonian | or at the very least, resolve this apt error |
| 18:30.31 | kittonian | CrystalMath, no, i don't want the software or systemd. just trying to resolve the apt error |
| 18:30.56 | kittonian | can't use apt because it thinks it's in the middle of an installation and I should use --fix-broken install, which of course fails |
| 18:30.56 | CrystalMath | kittonian: reinstall sysvinit maybe |
| 18:31.06 | CrystalMath | with dpkg directly |
| 18:31.11 | kittonian | why? |
| 18:31.14 | kittonian | sysvinit works fine |
| 18:31.21 | kittonian | it's an apt error |
| 18:31.21 | CrystalMath | okay but the man pagae thing |
| 18:31.23 | nvz | restore your backup |
| 18:31.38 | CrystalMath | nvz: meh, i've fixed FAR worse issues without resorting to that |
| 18:31.55 | CrystalMath | i've even fixed one that self-reported as "Ubuntu 8.3 jessie" |
| 18:32.00 | CrystalMath | it was a mint converted to debian |
| 18:32.00 | kittonian | and no, i am not restoring the server, lol |
| 18:32.04 | CrystalMath | i fixed that to pure debian |
| 18:32.08 | jariyah | How do I add a Arabian locale |
| 18:32.16 | jariyah | I got azerty keyboard |
| 18:32.27 | nvz | dpkg-reconfigure locales |
| 18:32.46 | jhutchins | kittonian: You'll probably need to restore the backup. I'd try this on a current version install on a VM. |
| 18:32.55 | kittonian | not happening |
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| 18:33.23 | jhutchins | kittonian: It's not really an apt error, apt is doing what it's supposed to do. |
| 18:33.34 | kittonian | i know |
| 18:33.48 | kittonian | but i need to clear out the idea that it thinks it needs to continue to try and install systemd |
| 18:33.52 | kittonian | that's all |
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| 18:35.39 | nvz | a /wise/ man once said.. not happening |
| 18:35.55 | kittonian | never mind. solved it |
| 18:36.05 | kittonian | jeez. does no one know how to actually admin a server anymore? |
| 18:36.11 | kittonian | reinstall from backup, lol |
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| 18:36.28 | nvz | you should've never done this to begin with |
| 18:36.38 | kittonian | oh, nice one |
| 18:36.45 | nvz | yeah, its the truth |
| 18:36.46 | CrystalMath | kittonian: it is sad |
| 18:36.52 | kittonian | CrystalMath, it's completely sad |
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| 18:37.02 | CrystalMath | kittonian: but don't worry, i personally *never* restored a backup |
| 18:37.07 | kittonian | me either |
| 18:37.08 | CrystalMath | that is because... there are no backups |
| 18:37.13 | nvz | you dont go /testing/ stuff on a production system you are not fully backed up and prepared to restore a backup of |
| 18:37.17 | nvz | you use a f'n VM |
| 18:37.29 | nvz | /thats/ how you administer a server |
| 18:37.37 | nkuttler | doing it on prod is more fun! |
| 18:38.24 | nvz | not really.. I'm still annoyed with having sid on my T440 cause my dumb ass wanted to see the latest MATE and XFCE features I read about upstream |
| 18:38.47 | nvz | now I dont wanna go back to buster cause my SSD is old and I'm afraid to put it through the paces until I can get another one |
| 18:39.15 | greycat | If my Debian 6 system can do "mount -t nfs -o nfsvers=3 a:/foo /bar" just fine, but "mount -t nfs -o nfsvers=3 b:/foo /bar" (different server) always comes back with "mount.nfs: mount system call failed", is this *DEFINIETLY* a misconfiguration on the second server? Or do I need to flip some arcane lever on the client? |
| 18:40.23 | nvz | greycat: what is this server thats failing running? if the one that works is on Debian 6 |
| 18:40.53 | greycat | The server is not Debian, and is not mine. I don't know what it is. It's controlled by a different department. |
| 18:41.23 | nvz | and I find it odd you'd even ask such a question.. cause you're the kinda guy that usually goes to lengths to look into things and doesnt sound like you ever did any debug, logging, or anything yet |
| 18:42.14 | greycat | I have 7 google result tabs open for the first question. |
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| 18:42.27 | nvz | it does sound like it could be anything from incompatible nfs tools, to default mount options.. you name it.. thats not enough information to speculate on really.. other than yeah.. sounds like the 2nd box is the issue |
| 18:43.08 | greycat | I have another 3 open for "linux nfs4" because apparently I can mount it with NFS version 4, but not with version 3, and I do not know nfs 4, and it looks like it will not be a viable option because it requires coordination with the server end, which I DO NOT CONTRGOL. |
| 18:44.05 | nvz | greycat: presumably if you are doing this you have administrative access to the 2nd machine that doesnt work, no? |
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| 18:44.53 | greycat | *sigh* |
| 18:45.04 | greycat | What part of I DO NOT CONTROL (other than the typo) was unclear... |
| 18:45.27 | greycat | I have no access to the NFS server. It's a share that I'm supposed to be able to mount. I have to exchange emails with the person who admins it. |
| 18:45.56 | greycat | If I'm desperate enough to ask this here, you know it's pretty bad. |
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| 18:46.09 | nvz | yeah.. |
| 18:46.27 | greycat | opens another google result, and this one says "the server was firewalled or wasn't running portmap".... |
| 18:46.49 | greycat | so far I've not seen ANY results that say "I solved this by changing xyz on the client" |
| 18:47.02 | greycat | and the error is just fucking USELESS |
| 18:47.58 | nvz | yes well thats what I mean you can't deduce /why/ its not working on this other machine? at least use a -v ffs? :D |
| 18:48.46 | nvz | or strace, rpcdebug.. something |
| 18:49.02 | nvz | wireshark.. idk.. that error is real vague |
| 18:49.36 | nvz | personally I'd be asking myself why this other server I have no control over is suddenly my f'n problem when my machine works.. |
| 18:50.01 | greycat | http://paste.wooledge.org/3316 |
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| 18:51.55 | cybrNaut | BCMM: thanks for the tip, but no worries. I have 3 debian-based systems (stretch, mint, ubuntu) and i asked the same question in #ubuntu and #linuxmint. In my client, i can crosspost just by hitting up arrow, and i didn't bother to edit the hostname. But anyway, i got my answer (and that answer applies to all 3 platforms) |
| 18:52.50 | xshockfish | in debian 10 I upgraded today, grub asked me where to install - replied /dev/sdc1 - after reboot system doesn't boot with: error: symbol grub_calloc not found - entering rescue mode - grub rescue |
| 18:53.32 | xshockfish | that /dev/sdc1 was where normally /boot was mounted (and was mounted at time of this aptitude upgrade). how to enter the system and install grub into maybe /dev/sdc this time? or ? |
| 18:53.46 | sney | /dev/sdc would be more likely, yes |
| 18:53.48 | sney | !fixmbr |
| 18:53.48 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 18:54.06 | xshockfish | how to fix that from within grub rescue? |
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| 18:54.31 | nvz | greycat: I/O error sounds like failing hardware.. did you check dmesg or such? |
| 18:54.32 | xshockfish | I hope booting current system is still possible if I tell grub rescue what to do |
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| 18:55.15 | nvz | greycat: again I/O error is vague but more points toward what may gather information.. and if its an IO error the kernel should certainly know more |
| 18:56.03 | greycat | There does not appear to be anything current in dmesg on the client. Yes, I checked. No, I do not know whether the timestamp in dmesg is current. I am assuming it's not. It's not talking about the correct network interface anyway. |
| 18:56.05 | nvz | greycat: my biggest issues with nfs were always permission type things.. and since you seem to know nothing about this sytem for all you know you could be locked out somehow |
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| 18:57.09 | WormholeTraveler | just installed debian, is there a guide I should be looking at for post install? |
| 18:57.16 | WormholeTraveler | 10.4 |
| 18:58.51 | sney | WormholeTraveler: debian tries to have sane defaults, so no, there's nothing you need to "fix". if you're looking for something specific it might be in the install guide or release notes |
| 18:59.03 | n_1-c_k | WormholeTraveler, there are probably dozens but here's one, https://debian-handbook.info/ |
| 18:59.29 | sney | the handbook is useful too |
| 19:00.05 | WormholeTraveler | im mainly looking for xorg tweaks |
| 19:00.25 | WormholeTraveler | thanks |
| 19:01.15 | sney | also, post-install blog articles about changing stuff in apt or installing random selections of packages for *reasons* are by amateurs and can often make things worse. skip 'em. |
| 19:02.42 | greycat | if you're having actual issues with X, it's usually missing firmware, or you need to switch to a different driver... can you describe the issue you're seeing? |
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| 19:03.11 | nvz | greycat: sources as obscure as mcaffee commenting on windows nfs servers (didnt know that was a thing) says that I/O errors /can/ result from incompatible nfs versions https://kc.mcafee.com/corporate/index?page=content&id=KB89327&locale=en_US |
| 19:03.31 | jhutchins | greycat: You're specifying the nfs version, so it's not trying an incompatible version. It sounds like there might be a problem with portmap on server B. |
| 19:04.53 | nvz | or your UID/GID doesnt line up.. more a million other things |
| 19:04.55 | jhutchins | There was a problem with the NFS client on RHEL6(?) back around 2013 that caused a similar error. |
| 19:05.04 | nvz | cause you dont know what the client or the server has doing on |
| 19:05.52 | jhutchins | greycat: Very difficult to diagnose when you can't see the server logs. |
| 19:05.52 | greycat | I mounted a share from a Debian 10 box just to prove that I could. To rule out something like "the client is missing kernel support for NFS v3 entirely". |
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| 19:07.51 | jhutchins | So not portmap... |
| 19:08.04 | nvz | or having a firewall issue is also ruled out |
| 19:08.19 | jhutchins | greycat: Do any utils like showmount work? |
| 19:08.19 | greycat | I know there isn't a firewall on the *client*. |
| 19:08.23 | greycat | jhutchins: yes. |
| 19:08.46 | greycat | The server person gave me the wrong directory name at first, and I had to use showmount -e on the server to look for the right name. |
| 19:09.02 | jhutchins | greycat: If server B didn't have permissions you should get a more meaningful error. |
| 19:09.10 | greycat | So, you understand that I do not have a lot of faith in the admins of this server. |
| 19:10.56 | greycat | The last thing they told me was "can you try mounting /BK_MEG_Lab_Study/MEG_Lab_Study" and that one gave an access denied error, as one would expect. |
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| 19:14.23 | nvz | so that kinda rules out UID/GID issues as well.. which I was still unclear about given that you say you can mount this on YOUR machine |
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| 19:19.37 | nvz | cause afaik nfs doesnt auth like most things by a user/pass it auths by the actual UID/GID |
| 19:19.47 | nvz | doesnt care what the user is called |
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| 19:23.10 | greycat | Mounting it with nfs4 works, but then the directory is owned by "nobody" because crazy bullshit kerberos wtf nfs4 idmap I have no idea. |
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| 19:29.28 | nvz | greycat: there is also a lot of bug reports out there or rhel, centos, etc about "port exhaustion" which results in an I/O Error on mount.. options rsvport and norsvport may or may not influence that from what I've seen |
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| 19:30.17 | nvz | -o resvport and noresvport even |
| 19:31.06 | greycat | I have no idea what kind of device the server is. Linux box? Windows box? NetApp toaster? I don't know. |
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| 19:33.14 | nvz | heh. yeah for /that/ to work the idmapd has to be running on both ends |
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| 19:33.23 | nvz | otherwise you end up with "nobody" |
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| 19:37.43 | greycat | In a new twist, the server admin opened up the share to all addresses, so I tried mounting with NFS v3 from my Debian 10 workstation. That worked. |
| 19:37.46 | greycat | Fuck my life. |
| 19:38.39 | jhutchins | nmap! |
| 19:38.51 | nkuttler | export it from your workstation. problem solved. very enterprise |
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| 19:43.24 | greycat | the box is running 2.6.26 because hardware compatibility reasons with a device that I suspect is no longer connected to it, and therefore that may no longer be a roadblock |
| 19:43.43 | greycat | there is a 2.6.32 kernel in /boot, so I can try that one first, or I can try upgrading it to wheezy.... |
| 19:44.44 | sney | *indiana jones voice* IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM |
| 19:45.28 | greycat | and *any* kernel work means I have to be there, which I can do tomorrow, but god damn it covid-19 STOP MAKING LIFE SUCK |
| 19:47.02 | greycat | Is there any "Lazy Man's nfs4 Guide" or something that'll just tell me how to make nfs4 mounts work like nfs3 mounts, with UIDs preserved instead of being force-mapped to "nobody"? |
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| 19:51.39 | nvz | greycat: https://www.suse.com/support/kb/doc/?id=000017244 seems to cover all common causes of woe.. but the issue with this is that as I said before idmapd has to be on both ends and whats worse it all has to agree on both ends as this shows |
| 19:51.40 | jhutchins | greycat: I dunno, v4 is pretty rare in actual implementation. It's something that only large institutions seem to use because ordinary admins don't understand it. |
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| 19:52.19 | jhutchins | I must admit that I use samba to avoid UID problems. |
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| 19:53.05 | nvz | yes well uid issues are solvable but they require some sort of server side cooperation :P |
| 19:53.33 | nvz | with v3 anon- options no_root_squash or with v4, requires coordinating idmapd settings |
| 19:54.23 | nvz | when I used nfs last, at home, I just used no_root_squash to avoid headaches |
| 19:54.25 | greycat | "the NFS v4 server must have knowledge of the same user and group accounts as the NFS v4 client is using" ... what the FUCK! |
| 19:54.38 | greycat | See, this is why nobody uses it! |
| 19:54.44 | nvz | yes well v3 has to have the same UID |
| 19:54.50 | greycat | INCORRECT |
| 19:54.58 | greycat | In v3 the server doesn't have to have any user accounts AT ALL. |
| 19:55.26 | greycat | The server does not give a flip what the UID of any file is, unless it's 0 and root_squash is in use, in which case, someone's "nobody" gets used. |
| 19:55.41 | greycat | I'm not even sure whose. |
| 19:56.15 | greycat | If two clients mount the same share in NFS v3 and they have disagreement about the username/UID mapping, then the file will show as the wrong user on the client side, but the server doesn't care. |
| 19:56.30 | nvz | I'm talking about for auth purposes to connect.. it doesnt use usernames it uses UIDs |
| 19:56.39 | greycat | There is no auth. |
| 19:56.45 | greycat | Just IP addresses. |
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| 19:57.57 | greycat | Also, I found the word "NetApp" in the emails, so I believe they're using a NetApp. I don't know how those things handle unix account names for NFS v4. |
| 19:58.55 | sney | like a legacy netapp? those were definitely some flavor of non-linux unix. |
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| 19:59.42 | nvz | shrugs I thought v3 implemented a basic UID auth, and it was the earlier versions that just did IP only |
| 20:00.03 | sney | the googles are telling me that NetApp ONTAP is a BSD flavor |
| 20:01.22 | sney | I wouldn't want to admin it but nfs is probably the upstream standard |
| 20:02.27 | nvz | idk I use sshfs or when I need to involve windows,android,etc.. samba.. nfs always has just been a very niche pain in the ass |
| 20:03.25 | sney | nfs is great if the link between machines is *very* reliable. um, but that's less common in the current era |
| 20:03.30 | nvz | its sole utility seems to be for native permanent filesystem sharing between local *nix hosts |
| 20:04.04 | nvz | once you start trying to use it like other filesharing for over the internet, untrusted networks, casually mounting shares and whatnot.. it goes to shit fast |
| 20:04.19 | sney | and a friend of mine who does ops and automation for a huge datacenter company said they had 2 weeks full of drama hunting down an i/o problem that turned out to be caused by nfs timeouts and a bum switch :D |
| 20:04.24 | nvz | for nfs to be usable you gotta be on your own private network, and have control of clients and servers |
| 20:05.04 | nvz | trying to do more than that with it can end in nothing but tears |
| 20:05.12 | nvz | usually after you've yanked yourself bald |
| 20:05.16 | sney | yep. |
| 20:05.23 | greycat | wonders if the wheezy archive servers even offer https |
| 20:05.58 | sney | don't forget on wheezy apt-transport-https is still separate |
| 20:06.15 | greycat | I'm not even *on* wheezy yet, on that box |
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| 20:06.38 | greycat | so I'd actually need apt-transport-https for squeeze ... |
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| 20:11.03 | nvz | http://archive.debian.org/debian/pool/main/a/apt/ shows it going back to lenny |
| 20:11.04 | greycat | OK, looks like I can download http://archive.debian.org/debian/pool/main/a/apt/apt-transport-https_0.8.10.3+squeeze7_i386.deb by hand and then transfer it to the box... |
| 20:11.14 | sney | there's always snapshot, too |
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| 20:12.42 | nvz | smirks at lintain "W: apt-doc: spelling-error-in-doc-base-abstract-field apt-user-guide:5 the the (duplicate word) the |
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| 20:16.18 | greycat | *sigh* why isn't apt-get update *doing* anything |
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| 20:18.39 | greycat | Is there a trick required to make apt-transport-https work in squeeze, beyond changing the lines in sources.list and removing the apt.conf file? |
| 20:20.54 | sney | not that I remember. readme.debian might shed some light if it's not working out of the box? |
| 20:21.28 | Aavar_ | WHen upgrading from debian 8 to 10. Is it ok to just edit the sources.list and run an upgrade? Or is there a more correct way? |
| 20:22.22 | greycat | You have to go 8 > 9 > 10. You can't skip. |
| 20:23.00 | greycat | https://archive.debian.org/debian is giving me an invalid cert error in google-chrome. That can't be a good sign. |
| 20:23.28 | Aavar_ | greycat: ok, but is editin the sources.list the correct way? |
| 20:23.29 | greycat | but apt-get update just does *nothing*. hangs there saying 0% [Working] |
| 20:23.44 | greycat | dpkg, tell Aavar_ about jessie->stretch |
| 20:24.17 | mutante | could it be missing "https_proxy=" env variable? |
| 20:24.19 | BCMM | Aavar_: there's a whole thing in the release notes about upgrading, but it's pretty much that, yeah. |
| 20:24.49 | BCMM | Aavar_: oh, and of course it's "full-upgrade"/"dist-upgrade", not plain "upgrade" |
| 20:24.51 | greycat | oh wait, there's some progress. now it said "Ign https://archive.debian.org squeeze Release.gpg" and it's up to 3% [Working] |
| 20:26.12 | BCMM | Aavar_: this page (or the equivalent for your version and architecture) has all the things you should watch out for. but it's basically "make backups, don't have stupid repos enabled, edit sources.list, do full-upgrade" https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html |
| 20:27.24 | Aavar_ | BCMM, greycat: I'll try. It's not a important machine if it breaks anyway :) Tnx |
| 20:27.44 | Aavar_ | btw. Is debian 9 still supported? |
| 20:28.07 | greycat | It's under LTS support at this time, not full support, but close enough. |
| 20:28.12 | Aavar_ | wait. I see it in the topic :) |
| 20:28.19 | BCMM | Aavar_: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases#Production_Releases LTS only |
| 20:29.36 | BCMM | Aavar_: and note that LTS is kind of special in Debian - not all packages in Debian are supported by LTS, so anyone intending to use LTS should make sure that the packages they use are supported |
| 20:29.53 | BCMM | (i.e. still get security updates!) |
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| 20:32.23 | greycat | Do the "Ign" lines from apt-get update mean that it gave up because it couldn't talk to the server successfully, or...? |
| 20:33.06 | sney | I think that's when the cache is already up to date |
| 20:33.07 | mutante | "Ign means there are no changes in the pdiff index file, it wont bother downloading it again." |
| 20:33.28 | mutante | how does it know there are no changes without downloading it? me hides |
| 20:34.27 | Aavar_ | mutante: Checksums or dates? I'm guessing... |
| 20:34.39 | mutante | Aavar_: makes sense, ack |
| 20:35.12 | Aavar | (Just to make it clear. I'm actually just guessing here ;)) |
| 20:36.03 | jhutchins | greycat: I think when it can't reach a server you get a meaningful error. |
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| 20:36.11 | mutante | |
| 20:36.55 | mutante | just gets the headers and Last-Modified maybe |
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| 20:43.39 | greycat | jhutchins: so after a few hours of these Ign lines coming one by one, it might actually work? And I might in theory be able to install packages, however many weeks that takes at this speed? |
| 20:44.47 | jhutchins | I would expect so. |
| 20:46.58 | jhutchins | If all the lines are "Ign" with no "Get", there is nothing new available. |
| 20:47.32 | greycat | any tips to figure out why it is taking so bloody LONG? |
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| 20:50.15 | tarzeau | package loss? dns? could be anything? netstat -ni and -ns is what i check, then dns, then strace, and also routing |
| 20:50.35 | greycat | DNS seems OK. I can do things like "host archive.debian.org" and get a quick response. |
| 20:50.42 | jhutchins | ,v certbot |
| 20:50.43 | judd | Package: certbot on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 0.28.0-1~bpo9+1; stretch: 0.28.0-1~deb9u2; stretch-updates: 0.28.0-1~deb9u2; buster: 0.31.0-1; bullseye: 1.6.0-3; sid: 1.6.0-3 |
| 20:51.02 | tarzeau | ping without package loss? |
| 20:51.15 | tarzeau | or the netstat command outputs look sane? |
| 20:51.35 | tarzeau | and a traceroute to the destination looks without breakage? |
| 20:51.38 | greycat | I pinged one of 'em. It's a round robin. |
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| 20:52.40 | jhutchins | I think there's a point release this weekend. |
| 20:53.05 | wwilliam | Is there anywhere to see why the system freezes everytime chrome is open? |
| 20:53.17 | greycat | netstat -ant is showing "217.196.149.234:443 LAST_ACK" and a CLOSE_WAIT and another LAST_ACK |
| 20:53.19 | wwilliam | I have to press button and reboot |
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| 20:53.47 | tarzeau | wwilliam: heating/cooling problem? case warm? fan not turning? |
| 20:53.59 | tarzeau | wwilliam: inspect /var/log/syslog and dmesg -T outputs? |
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| 20:54.25 | wwilliam | Thank you checking tarzeau |
| 20:54.28 | tarzeau | wwilliam: i've seen computers with not enough powerful PSUs, PSU change helped, even power rigs that were a problem... |
| 20:54.44 | tarzeau | wwilliam: the "sensors" output can be useful |
| 20:54.54 | jhutchins | greycat: I dunno, v4 is pretty rare in actual implementation. It's something that only large institutions seem to use because ordinary admins don't understand it.ut they postponed it. |
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| 20:55.16 | tarzeau | wwilliam: then there's memtester if you got faulty memory |
| 20:55.29 | wwilliam | !sensors |
| 20:55.29 | dpkg | lm_sensors (Linux-monitoring sensors) is a hardware health monitoring package for CPU temperature, fan speed, etc. Packaged for Debian as lm-sensors. http://www.lm-sensors.org/wiki/FAQ http://www.lm-sensors.org/ #linux-sensors on irc.freenode.net. |
| 20:55.37 | jhutchins | Man, touchpads suck. |
| 20:55.47 | tarzeau | wwilliam: oh wait, you said chrome (the memory hungry thing), out of memory? swapping? check htop of course, activate zram |
| 20:56.02 | jhutchins | They were going to do a point release on the 18th but they postponed it. |
| 20:56.05 | tarzeau | jhutchins: only with wet hands, or gloves |
| 20:56.07 | wwilliam | Yes |
| 20:56.21 | tarzeau | jhutchins: i've found the apple touchpads to not suck, but yeah anything else sucks! |
| 20:57.05 | tarzeau | wwilliam: i also found nohang to do a pretty good job, getting the right process annihilated, unlike the kernel oom killer |
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| 20:57.18 | jhutchins | The bigest problem is using it in my lap, I get all sorts of wild events. |
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| 20:57.29 | tarzeau | jhutchins: connect a real mouse? |
| 20:57.44 | jhutchins | tarzeau: In my lap? |
| 20:57.58 | tarzeau | i've found laptops so unergonomic (too small screen, screen too low), i hardly ever use them anymore |
| 20:58.09 | tarzeau | jhutchins: usb mouse, or wireless mouse? |
| 20:58.15 | ax562 | Hi all. |
| 20:58.26 | tarzeau | ahh not touchpad as in mouse touchpad, but screen touchpad? |
| 20:58.33 | ax562 | Anyone have any success with Nvidia-xrun? |
| 20:58.46 | tarzeau | ax562: never heard of that, looking up |
| 20:58.53 | wwilliam | checking all that tarzeau thank you. |
| 20:59.01 | ax562 | tarzeau thanks |
| 20:59.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1163] by debhelper |
| 20:59.06 | jhutchins | tarzeau: The problem is a surface to run it on. No, trackpad below the keys, so when you're typing you accidentally hit it. |
| 20:59.16 | ax562 | it's a technique to get nvidia hardware working |
| 20:59.31 | tarzeau | ax562: never heard of that, no package or command exists with that name. i use nvidia drivers, cuda drivers, cudnn, nvcc... |
| 20:59.33 | ax562 | https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers/NvidiaXrun |
| 20:59.56 | ax562 | tarzeau you have success utilizing nvidia hardware in buster? |
| 20:59.58 | tarzeau | ax562: oh i just use apt/sources.list.d/cuda.list with this deb http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ubuntu1804/x86_64 / (it just works) |
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| 21:00.15 | jhutchins | The trick with nvidia is you need to follow the official instructions EXACTLY. |
| 21:00.17 | ax562 | hmmm |
| 21:00.31 | ax562 | tarzeau what hardware you rocking? |
| 21:00.49 | ax562 | jhutchins I have, a couple times |
| 21:00.56 | ax562 | assuming I followed correctly |
| 21:01.04 | sney | ax562 did you forget to mention to everyone that you're using optimus? as you learned last time, that makes a difference |
| 21:01.10 | ax562 | 2 different fresh Debian 10 installs |
| 21:01.17 | tarzeau | ax562: oh wait, i only use that with 1080 ti, 2080 ti, and some quadro k* |
| 21:01.26 | tarzeau | ax562: which nvidia hardware? lspci |grep VGA |
| 21:01.37 | tarzeau | ax562: from single to 8-gpu machines |
| 21:01.40 | ax562 | sney well, actually not using optimus at all from my understanding nvidia-xrun is independen t |
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| 21:01.55 | tarzeau | half using tensorflow 1.x/2.x, other half pytorch |
| 21:01.58 | sney | optimus hardware. nvidia + intel mobile |
| 21:02.00 | ax562 | oh ok |
| 21:02.15 | ax562 | I mean I think I have initialized the hardware |
| 21:02.23 | tarzeau | laptops with that dual graphics card stuff? |
| 21:02.30 | ax562 | sney ok |
| 21:02.45 | ax562 | sney you are starting to confuse me :p |
| 21:02.56 | ax562 | too many configurations for the same hardware :P |
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| 21:03.37 | wwilliam | OK installed zram and running it i will do nohang now. |
| 21:03.50 | ax562 | tarzeau https://pastebin.com/BQdzFggS that's my hardware |
| 21:03.51 | tarzeau | ax562: we got linux desktops of age 0 day - 10 years, from two different manufacturers, some heros with custom/consumer stuff, and there's seldom more than 3 identical machines |
| 21:03.55 | tarzeau | about 200 of 'em |
| 21:04.01 | ax562 | i'm running the nvidia-drivers driver |
| 21:04.14 | ax562 | haha |
| 21:04.28 | tarzeau | ax562: yeah should be fine with the 450 driver, i'm just not familiar with the *m stuff (mobile) |
| 21:04.42 | ax562 | tarzeau what would you recommend for my hardware? |
| 21:04.47 | tarzeau | computers with linux are best if they run 24/7, and you got many of them, to fix one another from another one |
| 21:04.52 | ax562 | oh ok but it doesn't work |
| 21:05.08 | wwilliam | OK it just froze again after opening chromium did not have the chance to install nohang..... |
| 21:05.10 | tarzeau | ax562: the cuda.list with that url i gave before, then just apt install cuda-10-0 |
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| 21:05.33 | ax562 | I tried bumblebee but then ended up going to nvidia-xrun rought do to bumblee not being optimal configuration |
| 21:05.37 | tarzeau | wwilliam: strace chromium ? |
| 21:05.51 | tarzeau | ax562: i only heard horror stories of bumblebee |
| 21:06.03 | wwilliam | OK |
| 21:06.16 | *** part/#debian seaef (~seaef@unaffiliated/minimal-life/x-7984400) |
| 21:06.35 | tarzeau | https://github.com/linuxhw/hw-probe is a pretty cool project |
| 21:06.47 | ax562 | tarzeau yes, I was at the door of that horror story just stepping in |
| 21:07.08 | wwilliam | !nohang |
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| 21:08.30 | tarzeau | !nohang is a Sophisticated low memory handler for Linux, unlike the kernel oom killer. |
| 21:08.31 | dpkg | tarzeau: okay |
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| 21:10.50 | ax562 | tarzeau what's the syntax of cuda.list again ? |
| 21:11.14 | ax562 | https://pastebin.com/DTU9G1e6 |
| 21:12.11 | tarzeau | ax562: deb http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ubuntu1804/x86_64 / |
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| 21:12.33 | tarzeau | ax562: just that line, i used to have a telnet some.url > sources.list thing 20 years ago, maybe time to set that up again |
| 21:13.15 | CyberManifest | Is there a quick way online or outside of Linux to verify a Debian's package name for a particular software title? |
| 21:13.19 | ax562 | ty! |
| 21:13.43 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: packages.debian.org ? |
| 21:14.15 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: I find that troubling to use, it feels overwhelmingly incomprehensible to me :( |
| 21:14.37 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: packages.debian.org/searchterm |
| 21:14.55 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: or apt-cache search in a terminal? can't get much easier, can it? |
| 21:15.26 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: are you looking for something specific? |
| 21:15.45 | ax562 | tarzeau "cuda-10-0" does not exist |
| 21:15.54 | tarzeau | ax562: did you apt-get update? |
| 21:16.02 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: I'm trying to find the official debian buster package names for all of these: https://pastebin.com/8YGpKdFv |
| 21:16.04 | ax562 | yes |
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| 21:16.39 | tarzeau | ax562: sure does: http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ubuntu1804/x86_64 |
| 21:17.12 | ax562 | https://pastebin.com/70W7NxHD |
| 21:18.01 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: i pity you :) first make it all lowercase, then cat that file sed away all : and ,, and run all words through apt-cache show && echo $? and you've got half of the work done already |
| 21:18.17 | tarzeau | ax562: ah right you also need to add that pubkey |
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| 21:18.33 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: I find packages.debian.org challenging to navigate, as for one I can't tell software titles from libraries and versions or releases from other versions and releases.... and I'm currently on an Apple Mac and no where near a linux terminal to do an apt-cache check. |
| 21:18.52 | tarzeau | ax562: i've got a cuda.asc file (multi many lines) in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ |
| 21:19.11 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: that's a lot of work, that's why I was asking if anyone knew of an "easy" way. |
| 21:19.20 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: pretty easy: libraries start with lib* (with very little exceptions) |
| 21:19.37 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: besides I don't know sed well enough |
| 21:19.52 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: any macOS has a terminal cmd+space + termin+enter gives you a terminal to ssh into any debian computer with apt |
| 21:20.10 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: that hasn't been my case navigating packages.debian.org |
| 21:20.37 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: that stupid page blocks GET and curl |
| 21:20.59 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: I don't have ssh setup, you're making a lot of assumptions and inferences |
| 21:21.01 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: also links2 -dump and wget -O- |
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| 21:22.07 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: basically the content in a file here: echo `cat here` | sed "s/,//g;s/://g/" | while read a; do apt-cache show $a; done |
| 21:22.17 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: something like that, oh i forgot to make it all lowercase |
| 21:22.31 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: but what you call Task Manager: HTOP -> htop |
| 21:22.40 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: who made that list? and WHY? |
| 21:22.57 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: I did and for my own planning |
| 21:23.47 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: is the file called .plan in your $HOME ? are you over 50 years old? |
| 21:25.22 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: I'm making a setup script for a bare minimum net install and I'm migrating from another distro so I'm not familiar with the package names, I've already ran into one like wpa-supplicant as wpasupplicant or something like that. |
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| 21:25.42 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: I'm 39, and I don't see how that matters. |
| 21:25.54 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: from = rpm or deb based? it doesn't, i was just being curious |
| 21:26.03 | greycat | .plan files are used by the finger service which hasn't been a thing for decades |
| 21:26.11 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: I'm comming from Manjaro |
| 21:26.11 | tarzeau | greycat: i'm still using that |
| 21:26.17 | greycat | unless you're tarzeau |
| 21:26.22 | tarzeau | :) |
| 21:26.44 | tarzeau | greycat: my collegue recently figured, we got a user whos account name got the name "finger"... guess what i did |
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| 21:28.03 | greycat | 42% [Working] |
| 21:28.05 | tarzeau | i also remember, we used to have a 20k lines /etc/hosts file at my work place (10+ years ago), i probably also was the only one using it (and still missing it) |
| 21:28.34 | tarzeau | greycat: you know you can attach strace to running processes? (it's been so helpful to me) |
| 21:28.57 | tarzeau | and i've also used it to get an overview of syscall distribution (by amount) |
| 21:29.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1156] by debhelper |
| 21:30.16 | greycat | well, looks like /usr/lib/apt/methods/https is doing *something* because strace -p blah spews stuff faster than I can read it |
| 21:30.18 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: so there isn't a way at packages.debian.org to filter the results to just the primary software and exclude all libraries and help docs and src files ? |
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| 21:30.48 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: no, but your list is not huge, just do it all manually somehow |
| 21:31.05 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: that list is just a start, I have others in another file |
| 21:31.25 | greycat | time() times() poll() gettimeofday() getrusage() ... |
| 21:31.28 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: just do it! by the time you were here, you could've long been finished |
| 21:31.56 | tarzeau | greycat: not useful, if it doesn't hang anywhere. ltrace? ngrep (oh wait only for http useful) |
| 21:32.13 | greycat | I fucking wish I could use http. |
| 21:32.14 | CyberManifest | and that list is filenames from another distro's repo so they're already in package name but the package names are different and sometimes appear completely foreign in a debian search |
| 21:32.14 | tarzeau | is probably also the only one without login on his webpage, and all be http:// only |
| 21:32.20 | tarzeau | greycat: i just do it! |
| 21:32.43 | greycat | Not on my web site. In apt-get. |
| 21:33.06 | greycat | Corporate firewall intercepts it and demands a login or some such bullshit. |
| 21:33.18 | tarzeau | on any port? |
| 21:33.27 | greycat | Using https gets around that, but squeeze apparently doesn't have a GOOD apt-transport-https. |
| 21:33.43 | tarzeau | ahh that's broken, but you know that |
| 21:34.18 | tarzeau | our network guys get pissed off when people plug loops in the network |
| 21:34.46 | tarzeau | (~20k public ip addresses, imagine how large it is) |
| 21:35.08 | tarzeau | had someone in the lab doing it 4 times in 3 days... |
| 21:35.17 | greycat | Err https://archive.debian.org squeeze/main i386 Packages |
| 21:35.17 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:35.26 | greycat | that's... bad... right? |
| 21:35.31 | CyberManifest | I guess since there isn't an easy solution, I might have to make one later... a website that returns the results of an apt-cache search from a standard input... user types FireFox, they get a return of firefox |
| 21:35.47 | tarzeau | yes that's really bad |
| 21:35.55 | mutante | yea, i think the ciphers used by squeeze will not be accepted anymore |
| 21:36.09 | greycat | So I am simply FUCKED. |
| 21:36.38 | ax562 | tarzeau https://pastebin.com/axBWpGsY |
| 21:36.42 | AndreasLutro | must be some debian mirror that supports https |
| 21:36.46 | ax562 | is there a certain order to install? |
| 21:37.14 | mutante | so the TLS handshake does not succeed because client and server can't agree on acceptable ciphers. it's a guess but there have been many security issues with older TLS versions and ciphers |
| 21:37.15 | ax562 | I already had nvida-drivers installed. conflict? |
| 21:37.19 | tarzeau | ax562: you have to install their pubkey, and it'll just work |
| 21:37.29 | ax562 | tarzeau already did |
| 21:37.47 | ax562 | sudo apt-key adv --keyserver hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net:80 --recv-keys F60F4B3D7FA2AF80 |
| 21:37.55 | tarzeau | ax562: then apt update again? and apt install cuda-10-0 |
| 21:38.11 | ax562 | yes, then kicked that error |
| 21:38.26 | tarzeau | ax562: you have held broken packages? dpkg -l |grep -v ^ii |
| 21:38.37 | tarzeau | you did manually apt-mark hold stuff? |
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| 21:38.40 | ax562 | remember I have tried nvidia-drivers pkg , bumblebee, nvidia-xrun |
| 21:39.02 | tarzeau | ax562: yeah i know, that what our users with self-managed laptops always try, all and then come whining can you please help |
| 21:39.24 | ax562 | hahah |
| 21:39.52 | ax562 | https://pastebin.com/BzUDii31 |
| 21:39.56 | ax562 | doesn't look like |
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| 21:40.20 | tarzeau | ax562: apt upgrade? apt dist-upgrade ? i don't get it |
| 21:40.24 | ax562 | I did manually sudo apt-fast install libxnvctrl0 |
| 21:40.30 | tarzeau | ax562: you're on stable? or something else? |
| 21:40.38 | ax562 | yes |
| 21:40.48 | tarzeau | apt-fast is some proxy thing or what? can you just use plain old apt-get? |
| 21:40.54 | ax562 | lol |
| 21:40.57 | ax562 | same thing |
| 21:41.02 | ax562 | it's a script |
| 21:42.00 | tarzeau | ax562: know lolcat? post the output of apt-get install cuda-10-0 or apt install cuda-10-0 (not that apt-fast script) |
| 21:42.04 | mutante | all scripts are the same |
| 21:42.20 | tarzeau | mutante: hardly! |
| 21:42.27 | ax562 | https://pastebin.com/7NYBrAcE |
| 21:42.30 | ax562 | you're right |
| 21:42.36 | ax562 | apt-fast left out some info |
| 21:42.47 | tarzeau | mutante: most don't handle memory allocation, out of diskspace, permissions, and sig handling is also rare |
| 21:42.53 | tarzeau | mutante: so most scripts just suck |
| 21:43.12 | tarzeau | and so many could use some "timeout" at some places |
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| 21:43.34 | ax562 | tarzeau should I try manual install of those packages? |
| 21:43.45 | tarzeau | ax562: no, try to install cuda-10-1 |
| 21:43.49 | tarzeau | then cuda-10-2 |
| 21:43.58 | tarzeau | of course i don't have software from yesterday (stable) |
| 21:44.12 | ax562 | see pastebin gives me dependencie errors |
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| 21:44.55 | tarzeau | ax562: i see them, but i don't get them, the repo has that all |
| 21:45.10 | ax562 | should I try manual install? |
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| 21:45.38 | tarzeau | ax562: i can clearly see it here http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ubuntu1804/x86_64/ |
| 21:45.55 | tarzeau | ax562: no. this is not redhat, where you download single rpm files, then rpm -i the stuff |
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| 21:46.13 | tarzeau | ax562: that'll lead to frankendebian. tried with cuda-10-1 instead? |
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| 21:46.26 | ax562 | let me try |
| 21:46.46 | ax562 | same this but with -1 |
| 21:46.51 | tarzeau | ax562: and you do have dkms installed? |
| 21:47.02 | tarzeau | ax562: cuda-10-2 ? |
| 21:47.20 | ax562 | samething -2 error |
| 21:47.25 | ax562 | let me check |
| 21:47.27 | tarzeau | ax562: then, since debian stable is so old, maybe try with http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ubuntu1604/x86_64/ instead of ubuntu1804 repo? |
| 21:47.40 | tarzeau | in your cuda.list file, then apt-get update again |
| 21:47.42 | greycat | Well, the apt-get update finally failed. |
| 21:47.43 | *** part/#debian mutante (foobar@wikimedia/mutante) |
| 21:47.55 | greycat | Now I get to sit in the corner and cry. |
| 21:47.56 | tarzeau | they meanwhile also got 2004 but that's for cuda-11, which i doubt you would have success at with stable |
| 21:48.28 | tarzeau | graytron: Wave your arms in the air, scream and shout and run in circles? |
| 21:48.44 | tarzeau | graytron: sorry that was for greycat |
| 21:49.14 | ax562 | k |
| 21:49.54 | tarzeau | ax562: it's really bad they don't support non ubuntu/redhat: https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-installation-guide-linux/index.html |
| 21:50.07 | tarzeau | ax562: but i got some friends who DO use that stuff |
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| 21:50.20 | ax562 | tarzeau cool |
| 21:50.22 | ax562 | ty |
| 21:50.26 | tarzeau | ax562: uname -a ? which kernel you got? |
| 21:50.30 | tarzeau | that table might be helpful |
| 21:50.38 | tarzeau | ax562: and gcc --version |
| 21:50.50 | ax562 | Linux deb 4.19.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.118-2+deb10u1 (2020-06-07) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 21:51.28 | ax562 | gcc --versiongcc (Debian 8.3.0-6) 8.3.0 |
| 21:51.30 | tarzeau | i don't get why you wouldn't be able to install it, sorry |
| 21:51.35 | ax562 | dang, that sounds old |
| 21:51.49 | tarzeau | that's why i use sid+experimental+bunchmyownpackages |
| 21:51.57 | ax562 | tarzeau remember I flung nvidia-xrun all over my system lol |
| 21:52.07 | tarzeau | never heard of that |
| 21:52.32 | tarzeau | https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers/NvidiaXrun |
| 21:52.45 | tarzeau | ax562: why don't you take pink/orange debian? (sorry) |
| 21:53.04 | ax562 | ? |
| 21:53.12 | ax562 | This is my first Debian OS install |
| 21:53.14 | tarzeau | ax562: ubuntu |
| 21:53.23 | ax562 | I already have 20.04 lts :p |
| 21:53.29 | tarzeau | ax562: and it's not working? |
| 21:53.34 | ax562 | trying to see what debian is all about |
| 21:53.41 | ax562 | it works in ubuntu |
| 21:53.49 | tarzeau | ax562: it's where the newest and latest software gets in first, before ubuntu copies |
| 21:53.52 | tarzeau | +it |
| 21:53.56 | ax562 | they have their own proprietry drivers |
| 21:54.09 | tarzeau | ax562: but debian stable, of course is even slower getting that newest stuff from unstable/sid |
| 21:54.13 | ax562 | that's why I'm trying |
| 21:54.26 | tarzeau | ax562: who they? ubuntu? they use outdated nvidia drivers |
| 21:54.28 | ax562 | what's the newest of the new |
| 21:54.34 | tarzeau | and nvidia provides directly the latest stuff |
| 21:54.42 | tarzeau | ax562: debian sid+experimental |
| 21:54.47 | ax562 | well, ubuntu-driver-440 works out the box |
| 21:54.54 | tarzeau | ax562: it's old! i use 450 |
| 21:55.19 | tarzeau | ax562: and if you want to do gpu computing, you want nvidia.com drivers, since libcudnn (you need to make an account and download) |
| 21:55.26 | ax562 | lol, Im taking this in as fast as I can, remember I'm still noobish |
| 21:55.56 | ax562 | yeah, same thing still |
| 21:56.05 | ax562 | The following packages have unmet dependencies: cuda-10-0 : Depends: cuda-runtime-10-0 (>= 10.0.130) but it is not going to be installed Depends: cuda-demo-suite-10-0 (>= 10.0.130) but it is not going to be installed |
| 21:56.22 | tarzeau | ax562: if you say: aptitude install cuda-10-0 ? |
| 21:56.22 | ax562 | after install cuda-10-0 |
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| 21:57.14 | ax562 | let me try, didn't have aptitude |
| 21:57.19 | tarzeau | ax562: but did you try: apt-get update | lolcat yet? |
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| 21:57.26 | ax562 | no |
| 21:57.28 | tarzeau | ax562: you must! |
| 21:58.07 | ax562 | k |
| 21:58.12 | tarzeau | or stuff like: bash | lolcat (or with -i to lolcat added) can make people freak out |
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| 21:59.06 | ax562 | apt-get update | logcat error |
| 21:59.15 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: see like... --no-install-recommends xserver-xorg what's the equivalent in debian cause I'm not seeing that package at: https://packages.debian.org/stable/x11/ |
| 21:59.50 | tarzeau | CyberManifest: https://packages.debian.org/stable/x11/xserver-xorg it's there? |
| 22:00.32 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: sorry, overlooked it |
| 22:01.34 | tramplefoot | Hi, I'm trying to change my keyboard layout for TTY sessions, but changing vconsole.conf or etc/default/keyboard doesn't seem to work, my system language is English but I want to use the German layout, 'loadkeys de' seems to work |
| 22:02.15 | CyberManifest | tarzeau: but see that's what I mean how do I know if I want/need xserver-xorg or x11-common ? |
| 22:02.44 | ax562 | tarzeau what's best command to logcat "apt-get update" ? |
| 22:03.08 | CyberManifest | ax562: scripts is useful |
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| 22:04.40 | CyberManifest | ax562: sorry, script command |
| 22:04.59 | CyberManifest | https://linoxide.com/linux-command/script-command-recorder/ |
| 22:06.51 | ax562 | CyberManifest ty |
| 22:07.16 | ax562 | I'm actually trying to output "apt-get update" to a text file |
| 22:07.34 | ax562 | | log somefile.txt |
| 22:07.53 | ax562 | sudo apt-get update | log somefile.txt |
| 22:08.07 | dvs | >, not | |
| 22:08.32 | dvs | there is no "log" command |
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| 22:09.20 | CyberManifest | ax562: https://askubuntu.com/questions/420981/how-do-i-save-terminal-output-to-a-file |
| 22:09.49 | CyberManifest | sudo apt-get update > logfile.txt |
| 22:10.07 | ax562 | yes! |
| 22:10.14 | ax562 | CyberManifest TY! |
| 22:10.47 | CyberManifest | ax562: you're welcome :) |
| 22:11.05 | ax562 | https://pastebin.com/DvxWhzZc |
| 22:11.13 | ax562 | don't see anything |
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| 22:12.16 | oxek | what do you get if you run 'apt list git-gui'? I get 'git-gui/stable,stable,stable,stable 1:2.20.1-2+deb10u3 all'. I guess it's *really* stable? |
| 22:12.19 | CyberManifest | sudo apt-get update 2>&1 | tee logfile.txt |
| 22:12.21 | ax562 | tarzeau ^ |
| 22:12.25 | oxek | why does it say stable 4 times? |
| 22:15.11 | CyberManifest | #actually# sudo apt-get update | tee logfile.txt 2>&1 |
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| 22:21.33 | ax562 | I'm going to try an uninstall of nvidia-drivers and reboot |
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| 22:34.53 | tramplefoot | the "VC Keymap" variable is the keyboard layout that is supposed to be used in TTY sessions, right? |
| 22:35.06 | tramplefoot | ^^ the "VC Keymap" variable in localectl** |
| 22:35.30 | nvz | probably .. virtual consoles are what they're called |
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| 22:36.42 | tramplefoot | well this is very weird. localectl status says that I'm currently using the de layout, but pressing y types z |
| 22:37.13 | tramplefoot | is there another file that overrides etc/keyboard/default? |
| 22:37.25 | tramplefoot | etc/default/keyboard** |
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| 22:40.05 | nvz | idk about all that stuff anytime I tried fooling with that crap manually it was always a headache.. the way we typically say to do these things here is using dpkg-reconfigure on any or all of the following: locales, console-setup, keyboard-configuration |
| 22:40.25 | nvz | those are the main 3 packages whose config scripts handle this kinda stuff |
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| 22:41.35 | ax562 | hi again |
| 22:41.40 | tramplefoot | which file does console-setup change? i used it to change my font, and it worked perfectly, but the font parameter doesn't seem to appear in vconsole.conf, so i'm guessing that console-setup uses a separate file |
| 22:41.53 | tramplefoot | i guess ill just man console-setup and see myself |
| 22:42.14 | ax562 | tarzeau still theer? |
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| 22:42.24 | ax562 | I'm back to square one |
| 22:42.24 | nvz | well dpkg-reconfigure typically just runs the scripts that came with the package.. |
| 22:42.31 | nvz | dpkg, dpkg-reconfigure |
| 22:42.31 | dpkg | [dpkg-reconfigure] a tool used to reconfigure packages |
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| 22:42.42 | nvz | yeah, no crap genius :D |
| 22:46.22 | ax562 | has anyone had success getting nvidia hardware running optimally in Debian Buster? |
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| 22:52.14 | nvz | nvidia or nvidia optimus? :P |
| 22:52.41 | nvz | I guess that user trampled off :P |
| 22:53.11 | ax562 | nvz optimus as fas as I understand |
| 22:53.16 | ax562 | lo |
| 22:53.18 | ax562 | lol |
| 22:53.19 | ax562 | still here |
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| 22:53.54 | ax562 | nvz my hardware is not in the "Optimus" list but supposedly it is optimus |
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| 22:54.40 | ax562 | https://pastebin.com/GJwxtpHt |
| 22:56.42 | ax562 | and according to "lspci -nn | egrep -i "3d|display|vga"" ...optimus since 2 gpu exist |
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| 23:25.03 | WormholeTraveler | Does anyone sell debian posters? |
| 23:26.33 | ax562 | yes bitcoin only :P |
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| 23:28.07 | tramplefoot | x seems to recognize the keyboard layout now, but VCs seem to not care |
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| 23:29.03 | tramplefoot | am i supposed to run update-initramfs after changing the etc/defaults/keyboard file? grub does have a hook to the systemd console-setup service, right? |
| 23:29.13 | jmcnaught | WormholeTraveler: https://www.debian.org/events/merchandise |
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| 23:33.21 | oxek | on debian10, what's the most appropriate way of making 'python' run 'python3' by default instead of python2? |
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| 23:35.37 | jmcnaught | oxek: you don't. |
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| 23:37.23 | WormholeTraveler | virt-manager replaces virtualbox ?? |
| 23:38.07 | jmcnaught | virt-manager is a user interface to libvirt, which is normally used with qemu/KVM but can also manage virtualbox. |
| 23:38.38 | WormholeTraveler | coolcool |
| 23:40.23 | jmcnaught | oxek: to give you more of an answer, if you change it so 'python' runs python3 then software expecting python2.7 is not going to run properly. |
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| 23:43.24 | oxek | jmcnaught: python2 is deprecated anyway, so all software that requires python2 will be removed in debian11 |
| 23:43.39 | themill | oxek: that doesn't mean that you can make that change in Debian 10 |
| 23:44.34 | oxek | I can live with it if I can't change python into python3, just wondered if there's a simple way |
| 23:44.49 | themill | There is no way, let alone a simple way |
| 23:45.30 | oxek | well I guess if I remove python2, then python will point to python3 |
| 23:46.35 | themill | It's highly unlikely you can remove all python-using packages from your system in Debian 10 on any non-trivial installation |
| 23:47.16 | themill | What problem are you trying to solve here? |
| 23:47.21 | oxek | if I remembered the apt depends/rdepends syntax I'd be able to check |
| 23:47.51 | oxek | themill: what problem - that I often run 'python file.py' and it fails because it thinks it's python2 but I need python3 |
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| 23:48.23 | themill | it *is* python2. |
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| 23:48.37 | annadane | i keep getting a popup periodically that's prompting me for a password to 'update the repositories' or something, can i find out what it's for? i suspect package-update-indicator but idk |
| 23:48.48 | themill | oxek: see PEP394 |
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| 23:50.36 | themill | (also, read the 2nd line of prose in "python -m this") |
| 23:51.20 | oxek | themill: the PEP does not mandate behavior of 'python' |
| 23:51.33 | oxek | it's left up to the distro, unless in a venv |
| 23:51.57 | themill | and debian is the distro |
| 23:52.23 | themill | (it also used to have stronger wording with an exception for arch linux who decided that breaking the world was the best thing to do) |
| 23:53.42 | Devastator | how safe it is to update grub2 to mitigate boothole? |
| 23:53.53 | Kobaz | sooooo. i get these .log files in my working directory when using odbc... despite having set TraceFile/DebugFile/LogPath/ErrorMessagesPath options in odbc.ini... they still write to my app's CWD... any ideas? |
| 23:54.06 | Devastator | I've heard stories of boot failure after the update |
| 23:54.12 | oxek | Devastator: reports online say some systems don't boot and need to revert to previous 'vulnerable' version |
| 23:54.36 | Devastator | yeah, so I may just wait.. |
| 23:54.45 | oxek | so have a recovery plan in case you're affected by it if you upgrade |
| 23:55.19 | Devastator | my recovery plan is to go on site, which I don't want during pandemic.. |
| 23:56.10 | oxek | themill: quick check, minimal debian installation in vm does not even include python2. Installing DE does not install python2. Installing python3 manually makes 'python' run 'python3' by default. |
| 23:56.42 | oxek | so debian10 is pretty much ready to work without python2 |
| 23:57.08 | themill | oxek: umm no, python3 in Debian does not install /usr/bin/python |
| 23:57.29 | themill | and just because a minimal installation doesn't include python doesn't mean any non-trivial installation will not |
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