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| 00:02.35 | themill | FWIW I've been maintaining Python packages in Debian for about a decade and I know what is and isn't possible. I've converted 50-60 packages over to use Python 3 over the last year as part of the work to remove Python 2 from Debian. The fact that it's so much work to make that transition within bullseye where we're allowed to break things might tell you something about how it's not possible to do it within buster where you want things to keep working. |
| 00:03.15 | oxek | I admit I run very simple systems |
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| 00:11.18 | oxek | themill: thanks for all the work you do for debian |
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| 00:12.18 | themill | :) |
| 00:13.03 | dvs | !themillsnack |
| 00:13.28 | jim | !donut |
| 00:13.28 | dpkg | rumour has it, donut is slightly crazy, slightly depressed, slightly paranoid. All pastry. |
| 00:16.24 | phogg | oxek: if you just want to make invoking 'python' run python3 for your user so you don't have to learn to type python3 you can do alias python=python3 |
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| 00:36.26 | xshockfish | update-initramfs generates an initramfs that can't open crypto devices |
| 00:36.36 | xshockfish | I run that update-initramfs from a rescue mode from netinstall |
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| 00:50.02 | xshockfish | how to force debian to create initramfs that actually CAN open encrypted root? |
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| 00:57.12 | nickotheus | I can't seem to find pinta in my repositories, what happened to it ? |
| 00:57.27 | dvs | ,v pinta |
| 00:57.28 | judd | Package: pinta on amd64 -- jessie: 1.3-3; sid: 1.6-2; stretch: 1.6-2 |
| 00:57.52 | dvs | not in buster |
| 00:58.46 | nickotheus | also I'm on ARM64 |
| 00:59.34 | nickotheus | dvs, so could I somehow get a copy from an old version for my arch? |
| 01:00.04 | dvs | i've never tried |
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| 01:03.06 | nickotheus | ,v script |
| 01:03.08 | judd | No package named 'script' was found in amd64. |
| 01:03.20 | nickotheus | dvs, script isn't present either |
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| 01:06.59 | nickotheus | are these packages are just delayed in migration or are they deprecated ? |
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| 01:10.25 | dvs | if the packages are not in sid then they have been dropped |
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| 01:13.00 | nickotheus | dvs is there a way to check packages in sid from here? |
| 01:14.10 | dvs | the ",v" script checks all main repos, including sid. |
| 01:15.02 | nickotheus | dvs is thare any explination why script and pinta have been dropped? |
| 01:15.37 | dvs | probably in bug reports for those packages. |
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| 01:27.08 | nickotheus | I guess buster busted some things |
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| 01:33.09 | nvz | dpkg, why is pinta not in testing? |
| 01:33.09 | dpkg | pinta is not in testing for the reasons listed in https://qa.debian.org/excuses.php?package=pinta |
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| 01:46.32 | nvz | nickotheus: ^ |
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| 03:08.56 | nickotheus | nvz that was on an older kernel than I have, perhaps that makes a difference? |
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| 03:10.06 | ax562 | What is the stock Buster /etc/apt/sources.list supposed to look like? |
| 03:10.15 | dvs | !buster sources.list |
| 03:10.15 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 03:10.39 | ax562 | ty |
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| 03:12.38 | nvz | nickotheus: I have no idea what you're talking about |
| 03:13.03 | nickotheus | nvz, per that pinta bug report |
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| 03:13.46 | nickotheus | nvz, I have a newer kernel, but in fairness my distro isn't pure debian and stock buster kernel is same I believe |
| 03:14.40 | nickotheus | although, screenfetch claims my distro is debian |
| 03:14.41 | nickotheus | :/ |
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| 03:16.16 | nvz | I still dont know what you're talking about :P if you wanna talk about a bug report all you gotta do is metion a number like #950459 then we know what you're talking about |
| 03:16.17 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/950459 in initscripts (open, patch): «initscripts: bootmisc.sh needs to set SE Linux context after file creation»; severity: normal; opened: 2020-02-02; last modified: 2020-02-02. |
| 03:16.24 | nvz | because this will happen ^ |
| 03:16.51 | nickotheus | nvz, that link you gave me |
| 03:17.06 | nvz | I didnt give you any links |
| 03:18.02 | nvz | I'm not even sure what pinta is.. I heard of the name before.. |
| 03:18.35 | nickotheus | [20:33:09] <nvz> dpkg, why is pinta not in testing? |
| 03:18.35 | nickotheus | [20:33:09] <dpkg> pinta is not in testing for the reasons listed in https://qa.debian.org/excuses.php?package=pinta |
| 03:18.54 | nvz | yes, I asked dpkg a question, and it gave a link.. |
| 03:19.09 | ax562 | fresh install |
| 03:19.11 | nvz | since two of you were talking about something the bot could've easily answered |
| 03:19.28 | nvz | I figured neither of you realized the bot would answer that question |
| 03:20.07 | nickotheus | nvz, I thought you referenced the bot because you knew the answer |
| 03:20.30 | nickotheus | any ideas why screenfetch would report the wrong shell? |
| 03:20.42 | nickotheus | I'm using zsh but it's saying bash |
| 03:20.50 | nickotheus | perhaps it's cause it was from a script |
| 03:20.52 | nvz | ax562: typically has a cd source commented out, 3 different deb and deb-src pairs for main, buster-updates and buster/updates and the main repos |
| 03:21.36 | ax562 | nvz I've had intermitent internet during installs |
| 03:22.23 | nvz | ax562: https://termbin.com/naxg |
| 03:22.53 | nvz | ax562: the official images will not have contrib and non-free on every line, only main |
| 03:23.00 | nvz | the firmware images will have those |
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| 03:25.04 | ax562 | nvz ty |
| 03:25.07 | ax562 | I got it now |
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| 03:25.16 | ax562 | 3rd fresh install this week |
| 03:25.28 | ax562 | I'm trying to get my nvidia hardware working |
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| 03:37.49 | ax562 | When should a debian user use "Debian backports"? |
| 03:38.14 | nvz | when they don;t have to ask that question? :P |
| 03:38.41 | CrystalMath | hmm |
| 03:38.44 | CrystalMath | i need help |
| 03:38.50 | CrystalMath | equivs-build is broken |
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| 03:39.05 | ax562 | lol |
| 03:39.11 | CrystalMath | it says "Source-field must be a valid package name, got: "<package name; defaults to equivs-dummy>" |
| 03:41.08 | CrystalMath | wait |
| 03:41.15 | CrystalMath | there is a field called Package: in the file |
| 03:41.19 | CrystalMath | i didn't notice it before |
| 03:41.23 | CrystalMath | nevermind, problem solved |
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| 03:43.46 | CrystalMath | wonders why it isn't automatically filled in.... |
| 03:44.49 | themill | CrystalMath: given that noone knows what you've actually done, there's zero chance you're going to get an answer |
| 03:46.01 | CrystalMath | themill: no no, it's fine |
| 03:46.08 | nvz | I believe this is the self described.. what was it.. retromaniac? |
| 03:46.09 | CrystalMath | themill: i forgot to set the Package: line |
| 03:46.26 | CrystalMath | my vision's a little blurry |
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| 03:47.06 | CrystalMath | i upgraded some other system i have to buster |
| 03:47.25 | CrystalMath | and i needed to get rid of that pesky gsettings-backend dependency |
| 03:47.33 | CrystalMath | so i created an equivs package null-gsettings-backend |
| 03:47.35 | CrystalMath | like the one i have here |
| 03:47.46 | CrystalMath | it's just a blank package that "provides" gsettings-backend |
| 03:47.50 | CrystalMath | to get rid of the stupid dependency |
| 03:48.05 | CrystalMath | this allows me to install firefox without gconf or dconf |
| 03:48.11 | CrystalMath | which are, really, not required |
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| 03:55.31 | ax562 | anyone here get these nvidia drivers working on Buster? |
| 03:57.51 | seanrobert | I have a jar I want to run (Gephi if you are curious), and my default java is jdk 11. But, I get errors: apparently Gephi wants to use jdk8. It looks like I have both the openjdk-8 and openjdk-11 debian packages. How can I run my program with 8? |
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| 04:00.30 | seanrobert | If I do `which java' and follow the simlinks, I find that running java runs /usr/lib/jvm/java-11-openjdk-amd64/bin/java. So basically, I want swith java to /usr/lib/jvm/java-8-openjdk-amd64/bin/java |
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| 04:01.51 | nvz | heh |
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| 04:05.52 | nvz | seanrobert: update-alternatives --config java |
| 04:09.13 | CrystalMath | every time i install buster i have to patch all these bugs |
| 04:09.45 | CrystalMath | the freetype font height rounding bug, the ksh93 posix_spawn() failure, and a segfault in sc when referring to a blank cell |
| 04:10.15 | CrystalMath | so far there's only hope of the second one of the three being fixed upstream |
| 04:10.23 | CrystalMath | sc just has no upstream |
| 04:10.33 | CrystalMath | and Werner Lemberg is being a moron about the freetype bug |
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| 04:10.42 | CrystalMath | insisting that every font in the world is wrong, instead |
| 04:11.10 | CrystalMath | but, at least ksh maintainers are gonna do something about the posix_spawn() crash |
| 04:11.11 | seanrobert | nvz: thank you. That worked! |
| 04:12.04 | CrystalMath | btw, am i the only one who noticed fonts taking up more vertical space after upgrading to buster? |
| 04:12.04 | nvz | seanrobert: which java 8 package did you use? |
| 04:15.44 | seanrobert | openjdk-8-jre:amd64 |
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| 04:16.03 | nvz | yes but thats not available in buster |
| 04:16.20 | nvz | ,v openjdk-8-jre |
| 04:16.21 | judd | Package: openjdk-8-jre on amd64 -- stretch-proposed-updates: 8u242-b08-1~deb9u1; stretch: 8u252-b09-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 8u252-b09-1~deb9u1; sid: 8u252-b09-1 |
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| 04:18.48 | seanrobert | no, I am using Debian 5.7.6 ("Lenny" i guess?) |
| 04:19.18 | nvz | @,@ |
| 04:19.23 | ax562 | wow, that sounds old school |
| 04:19.43 | nvz | yeah.. well.. |
| 04:19.46 | ax562 | so what is debian newest version? |
| 04:19.48 | ax562 | buster? |
| 04:19.58 | nvz | yes Debian 10 Buster |
| 04:20.11 | ax562 | I'm new to the Debian game :P |
| 04:20.14 | nvz | and this fella has nfc whats going on :P |
| 04:20.23 | nvz | dpkg, newb |
| 04:20.23 | dpkg | Don't bother telling us you're a "newb" or a "n00b". We can tell. |
| 04:20.32 | ax562 | bahaha |
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| 04:20.38 | ax562 | what gave me away? |
| 04:20.42 | ax562 | all my questions? |
| 04:20.49 | nvz | idk you installed how many times in a row? |
| 04:20.54 | nvz | :D |
| 04:20.56 | ax562 | 3 |
| 04:21.02 | ax562 | not in a row |
| 04:21.08 | ax562 | seperate sittings |
| 04:21.11 | nvz | heh |
| 04:21.22 | ax562 | third times the charm :P |
| 04:21.37 | ax562 | I'm feeling something |
| 04:21.44 | nvz | yes well I tried freebsd once.. I think it was around 4.4.. and I installed several times in a row |
| 04:21.56 | ax562 | how was that? |
| 04:22.13 | nvz | their installer never reaches a logical end point and reboots.. it'll just keep goin in cicles till you get deja vu |
| 04:22.22 | ax562 | lol |
| 04:22.43 | ax562 | it happens |
| 04:22.53 | ax562 | they'll figure it out :P |
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| 04:24.35 | nvz | see thing is.. |
| 04:24.38 | nvz | dpkg, what is lenny? |
| 04:24.38 | dpkg | Lenny is the codename for Debian GNU/Linux 5.0, released on February 15th, 2009. Lenny security support ended on 2012-02-06, this release is no longer supported. Lenny users should upgrade to Squeeze, ask me about <lenny->squeeze>. Removed from the mirrors (2012-03-25), ask me about <lenny sources.list>. For old Lenny ISOs, ask me about <lenny iso>. http://wiki.debian.org/DebianLenny http://www.debian.org/News/2012/20120209 |
| 04:25.00 | CrystalMath | seanrobert: you're beating me at my own retro game :( |
| 04:25.21 | CrystalMath | debian lenny! that's older than the first debian i used |
| 04:25.29 | ax562 | nvz do you know if using gnome will cause any other issues for someone on buster trying to get the nvidia drivers working |
| 04:25.56 | ax562 | Who's on Debian 1.0?!? |
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| 04:26.26 | nvz | gnome causes me all kinds of problem. I get indigestion, tourettes.. etc |
| 04:26.35 | ax562 | lol |
| 04:26.43 | CrystalMath | i just use FVWM |
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| 04:26.46 | ax562 | I like the support online |
| 04:26.53 | CrystalMath | ax562: i have Debian 1.0 (buzz) in a VM :) |
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| 04:27.01 | ax562 | Wow! |
| 04:27.08 | CrystalMath | it surprised me with the lack of support for disks bigger than 500 M |
| 04:27.17 | CrystalMath | or was it 2G? |
| 04:27.26 | CrystalMath | 2G |
| 04:27.35 | ax562 | ok, reboot, brb |
| 04:27.42 | nvz | heh |
| 04:27.56 | CrystalMath | 500M is for SVR4 |
| 04:29.09 | seanrobert | By the way, the reason I am using I because I am writing a script to make a .gml (graph modelling language) file which describes the dependencies among install deb packages. Is there already a tool to visualize the dependencies of debian packages? If not, is this something anyone else would be interested in me sharing? |
| 04:30.12 | nvz | not sure what you're looking for exactly we have all sorts of tools that do things |
| 04:30.53 | nvz | judd, why task-mate-desktop dconf |
| 04:30.54 | themill | there are a few yes |
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| 04:31.24 | themill | ,i debtree |
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| 04:31.37 | themill | poor bot, bad nvz |
| 04:31.45 | nvz | :P |
| 04:31.48 | judd | No dependency chain found between packages task-mate-desktop and dconf in buster/amd64. |
| 04:31.49 | judd | Package debtree (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: package dependency graphs on steroids. Version: 1.0.10+nmu1; Size: 19.5k; Installed: 63k; Homepage: http://collab-maint.alioth.debian.org/debtree/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/debtree |
| 04:31.58 | judd | larts nvz |
| 04:32.24 | themill | seanrobert: ^^ |
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| 04:34.57 | seanrobert | Yes, that looks what I was thinking of. (here is a snippet from my version: https://seanrobert.georgetown.domains/gephi.png) |
| 04:36.59 | nvz | and you do realize you're programming this ironically in a way that will not work in debian |
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| 04:38.11 | themill | literate programming, functional programming, object oriented programming, ironic programming. |
| 04:38.26 | seanrobert | You mean because Gephi is not a debian package? |
| 04:38.39 | nvz | and because it depends on outdated jre that is not in debina |
| 04:39.12 | nvz | you appreciate teh irony of making something to check dependencies in debian that its dependencies arent in debian? :P |
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| 04:40.49 | seanrobert | Well my script itself does not require java8, just Gephi does. The script just creates a .gml file. The only reason I wanted to use Gephi to open the .gml files is because I already have experience with Gephi (on Windows). I am sure there are debian programs which can open .gml file - if you know of any, can you point me towards one? |
| 04:41.30 | nvz | heh |
| 04:46.01 | CrystalMath | what's .gml? |
| 04:46.18 | nvz | dpkg, gml? |
| 04:46.19 | dpkg | nvz: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface. |
| 04:46.40 | seanrobert | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_Modelling_Language |
| 04:46.51 | seanrobert | it looks a bit like json |
| 04:47.11 | CrystalMath | graphviz ofc |
| 04:48.01 | CrystalMath | just install graphviz |
| 04:48.03 | CrystalMath | it works with gml |
| 04:49.44 | nvz | you do realize its 2020 right? |
| 04:50.01 | seanrobert | What I like about Gephi is that it is interactive. Doesn't graphviz just generate images? |
| 04:50.10 | CrystalMath | it's a set of command line tools |
| 04:50.12 | CrystalMath | nvz: so? |
| 04:50.20 | CrystalMath | i use sc for spreadsheets, your argument is invalid |
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| 04:51.16 | nvz | so. 20 years ago .gml was that markup made for geospatial crap.. and this is an ascii ( .. yes.. I said ASCII ) thing only implemented by out of date tools.. |
| 04:51.30 | nvz | and I can't even readily find out who made it an when |
| 04:51.40 | CrystalMath | it seems fairly new |
| 04:51.57 | CrystalMath | it has a JSON-like format |
| 04:51.59 | nvz | you've never heard of UTF? |
| 04:52.00 | CrystalMath | that's far future tech |
| 04:52.08 | nvz | heh |
| 04:52.15 | nvz | or YAML.. |
| 04:52.28 | seanrobert | Yes, apparently there is also a "geography markup language", but I am using "graph modelling language" |
| 04:53.16 | nvz | yes.. the geography markup language is modern, supported by many maintained things.. has an actual wikipedia article not just a stub |
| 04:53.17 | ax562 | ok y'all |
| 04:53.22 | ax562 | we have a code 3 |
| 04:53.32 | nvz | its something it may make sense to start coding something around |
| 04:54.09 | CrystalMath | nvz: it appears to be from 2010 |
| 04:54.23 | CrystalMath | like i said, far future technology |
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| 04:56.38 | CrystalMath | nvz: if i start an ezine, it's gonna be ASCII |
| 04:56.51 | CrystalMath | ezines are all the rage these days, they're on all the BBSes |
| 04:59.34 | ax562 | https://pastebin.com/9LuzMTkV |
| 05:00.01 | ax562 | I got it this far but still the intel card is running dolphin-emu |
| 05:01.04 | ax562 | Anyone ever seen this "Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module"" when using Nvidia prime render offload? |
| 05:03.13 | ax562 | dang, it was just a 32 bit driver dependency |
| 05:03.15 | ax562 | urgh |
| 05:03.37 | ax562 | got rid of the canberra-gtk-module |
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| 05:04.04 | nvz | ax562: that can happen running all sorts of things |
| 05:04.04 | ax562 | but still no nvidia working :( |
| 05:04.21 | ax562 | nvz it was part of the nvidia driver install |
| 05:04.33 | nvz | what I'm saying is, its irrelevant |
| 05:04.53 | nvz | I could probably run a bunch of programs on any machine here that doesnt have nvidia and get that error |
| 05:04.54 | ax562 | I'm on a 64bit machine but I also installed the 32 bit packages |
| 05:05.02 | nvz | its not even really an error |
| 05:05.10 | nvz | its more just a fyi :P |
| 05:05.15 | ax562 | yeah, pretty much |
| 05:05.23 | ax562 | it's gone now but still no nvidia |
| 05:07.19 | ax562 | I'm trying to run this gamecube emulator |
| 05:07.33 | ax562 | when it boots it tells me which hw it's using |
| 05:07.42 | ax562 | still on intel gpu |
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| 05:08.01 | nvz | dpkg, optimus? |
| 05:08.01 | dpkg | The Bumblebee project aims to provide support for the Nvidia Optimus GPU switching technology on Linux systems. GeForce 400M (4xxM) and later mobile GPU series are Optimus-enabled; if «lspci -nn | grep '\[030[02]\]'» returns two lines, the laptop likely uses Optimus. Packaged for Debian <jessie> and <stretch> and <buster> and <bullseye>. http://wiki.debian.org/Bumblebee http://bumblebee-project.org/ #bumblebee on irc.freenode.net. |
| 05:08.30 | ax562 | nvz I might be heading back in that direction |
| 05:08.53 | ax562 | https://wiki.debian.org/NVIDIA%20Optimus#Using_NVIDIA_PRIME_Render_Offload |
| 05:09.00 | ax562 | what I'm working off |
| 05:09.02 | nvz | I'd head to get another computer personally |
| 05:09.14 | ax562 | lol |
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| 05:18.28 | towo^work | ax562, you try that in buster? that can't work |
| 05:19.56 | towo^work | ax562, buster does not ship xorg-server 1.20.6, which contains the nessesary patches |
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| 05:21.27 | ax562 | towo^work yes, I was trying that in buster |
| 05:21.41 | towo^work | will not work |
| 05:21.51 | ax562 | https://wiki.debian.org/NVIDIA%20Optimus#Using_NVIDIA_PRIME_Render_Offload |
| 05:21.56 | ax562 | i started with that |
| 05:21.59 | ax562 | then went to this |
| 05:22.09 | towo^work | ax562, and you havn't read it really |
| 05:22.28 | ax562 | https://wiki.debian.org/NVIDIA%20Optimus |
| 05:22.35 | ax562 | yes |
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| 05:22.37 | towo^work | PRIME Render Offload needs xorg-server 1.20.6 as minimum |
| 05:23.52 | ax562 | which version ships with buster |
| 05:25.52 | ax562 | any recomendations? |
| 05:26.13 | nvz | ,v xserver-xorg |
| 05:26.14 | judd | Package: xserver-xorg on amd64 -- jessie: 1:7.7+7; buster: 1:7.7+19; stretch: 1:7.7+19; bullseye: 1:7.7+20; sid: 1:7.7+20 |
| 05:26.43 | nvz | ,v xorg-server |
| 05:26.44 | judd | No package named 'xorg-server' was found in amd64. |
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| 05:27.55 | towo^work | xserver-xorg-core |
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| 05:28.33 | ax562 | will that fix my problem lol |
| 05:28.57 | nvz | ,v xserver-xorg-core |
| 05:28.58 | judd | Package: xserver-xorg-core on amd64 -- jessie: 2:1.16.4-1+deb8u2; jessie-security: 2:1.16.4-1+deb8u2; stretch-security: 2:1.19.2-1+deb9u4; stretch: 2:1.19.2-1+deb9u5; buster: 2:1.20.4-1; bullseye: 2:1.20.8-2; sid: 2:1.20.8-2 |
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| 06:35.20 | Psy-Q | hmm, now the libsnmp/snmpd upgrade seems to have broken all our custom sensors, on buster as well as stretch (it was only on our ancient jessie hosts yesterday) |
| 06:37.28 | Psy-Q | snmpd_5.7.3+dfsg-1.7+deb9u2 and libsnmp30_5.7.3+dfsg-1.7+deb9u2 came via unattended-upgrades and since then there is "/etc/snmp/snmpd.conf: line 95: Warning: Unknown token: extend." and none of the extensions work |
| 06:38.01 | Psy-Q | the only similar issue i could find about this was in an ancient opensuse 11.2 -> 11.3 upgrade from ages ago, but it's probably not related |
| 06:39.02 | Psy-Q | oh, i see the extend macro was removed intentionally. righty-o. gonna remove all those sensors in our monitoring then until we think of something new |
| 06:39.27 | Psy-Q | related bug: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=966544 |
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| 06:49.58 | Psy-Q | it's bizarre that i can't find any mention of this change in the changelog and it seems to break monitoring for a bunch of people |
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| 06:52.40 | themill | https://tracker.debian.org/news/1164014/accepted-net-snmp-573dfsg-17deb9u2-source-all-amd64-into-oldstable/ |
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| 07:02.47 | CyberManifest | since mugshot, pinta, script all aren't in the Buster ARM64 repos can anyone offer me some alternatives for those 3 ? |
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| 07:07.31 | Psy-Q | themill: ah, thanks |
| 07:07.43 | ksk | CyberManifest: what do these do? screenshots? "apt-cache search screenshot" |
| 07:08.03 | ksk | ,v mugshot |
| 07:08.04 | judd | Package: mugshot on amd64 -- jessie: 0.2.5-1; stretch: 0.3.1-1; bullseye: 0.4.2-1; sid: 0.4.2-1 |
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| 07:08.43 | ksk | a user configuration utilty. Oof, no IDea. |
| 07:08.53 | Psy-Q | i was following the changelog link from packages.debian.org but that link is dead |
| 07:09.13 | Psy-Q | this: https://packages.debian.org/source/oldstable/net-snmp points to this: https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/n/net-snmp/net-snmp_5.7.3+dfsg-1.7+deb9u2_changelog |
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| 07:17.44 | themill | Psy-Q: I'm not sure stretch-lts stuff appears there at all |
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| 07:19.01 | Psy-Q | oh. hmm, i'm a bit confused :| well, this will probably hit stable sooner or later as well and should then pop up somewhere? there's a CVE and everything |
| 07:19.45 | Voidablazer | I am setting up an xmpp server. Can anyone suggest any cloud hosting service? |
| 07:22.58 | themill | Psy-Q: yes, most likely. It's unusual that things get fixed in LTS before stable but it may well be that the breakage is making them think twice https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2020-15862 |
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| 07:29.59 | nickotheus | when I installed blueman and network manager for XFCE it placed an extra network and bluetooth applet in my LXDE session panel, how can I remove them from my lxde but retain the install and packages for XFCE ? |
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| 07:39.36 | Epakai | nickotheus: I think those are controlled by files in /etc/xdg/autostart or ~/.config/autostart I think you just delete the file there unless LXDE has some interface to manage them I don't know about |
| 07:40.06 | nickotheus | Epakai, thanks, I'll check |
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| 07:42.48 | nickotheus | Epakai, but if I remove it from /etc/xdg/autostart, won't that remove it from my XFCE session as well? |
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| 07:44.36 | Epakai | oh, yes. there's no independent control. XFCE has it's "session & startup" in settings, but doesn't look like LXDE has an equivalent |
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| 07:46.22 | Epakai | nickotheus: oh, found it, check out lxsession-edit |
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| 07:47.53 | nickotheus | Epakai, THANK YOU! how on earth did you find that? |
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| 07:53.47 | nickotheus | Epakai, it's weird, they have an entry for blueman but not for NetworkManager other than "Network" which I think is for wicd |
| 07:54.07 | nickotheus | nope |
| 07:54.15 | nickotheus | it was for Network Manger :) |
| 07:54.21 | nickotheus | thanks again Epakai |
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| 07:56.29 | Epakai | apt search lxsession, after searching for lxde's session manager |
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| 09:39.41 | b1nny | Psy-Q: if you want I have a small python script that you can deploy, it essentially 'talks pass to snmp' and does a subprocess.run(). |
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| 09:41.43 | b1nny | https://paste.debian.net/1158417/ |
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| 09:42.28 | b1nny | and you would use it as such: pass .1.3.6.1.4.1.9001.8.1.101.1 /usr/local/bin/pass-exec.py /usr/lib/nagios/plugins/check_apt |
| 09:47.01 | b1nny | credits go here btw, this script ^ is a hacked-up version of this: https://sourceforge.net/p/net-snmp/patches/1328/ |
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| 10:07.28 | jil | hi |
| 10:07.34 | mi11k1 | hey |
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| 10:08.50 | jil | I'm tryin to install ghc 3.8.5 (haskel compiler) but their website only offers the 3.10.1 for deb10. |
| 10:09.29 | jil | 3.8.5 is available for debian 9, but does it has any change to pass , or should I try another root, like compile the compiler ? |
| 10:09.47 | jil | another route |
| 10:10.22 | mi11k1 | jil, you can add debian 10 repo and pin |
| 10:10.33 | mi11k1 | sorry, backwards |
| 10:10.56 | mi11k1 | try and add it to sources |
| 10:11.02 | mi11k1 | stretch |
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| 10:11.27 | mi11k1 | its been awhile, but that shouldnt break anything |
| 10:11.28 | jil | sorry I mean ghc 8.6.5 |
| 10:11.39 | rabbitear_g | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeQM1c-XCDc |
| 10:11.40 | mi11k1 | its from stretch right? |
| 10:12.45 | jil | yes |
| 10:12.50 | mi11k1 | deb http://ftp.cl.debian.org/debian/ stretch ntrib non-free |
| 10:13.02 | mi11k1 | add that to /etc/sources.list |
| 10:13.10 | jil | Thank you |
| 10:13.14 | mi11k1 | typo contrib |
| 10:13.20 | mi11k1 | not ntrib |
| 10:16.33 | jil | mi11k1: but d'ont get it, how does the sytem now where to get packages if I have to version referenced in my sources ? (stretch and buster) |
| 10:16.54 | jil | tow version. |
| 10:17.03 | jil | not better sorry : my english is poor |
| 10:17.23 | mi11k1 | jil, are you using a gui? |
| 10:17.27 | mi11k1 | synaptic? |
| 10:17.51 | mi11k1 | try apt install -t stretch package |
| 10:18.13 | quadrathoch2 | jil, adding another release of debian is not recommended. but apt would differentiate between those two, as apt has a config with "Base release" which should point to buster |
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| 10:31.53 | jil | Finaly I used gchup a tool to handle ghc version, and it installed the deb9 version of ghc. It works like a charm. |
| 10:32.20 | jil | I was afraid of breaking something installing deb9 soft on deb10.. seems ok. |
| 10:32.22 | mi11k1 | jil, ya sorry buddy |
| 10:32.25 | jil | thank you |
| 10:32.49 | mi11k1 | jil, quadrathoch2 is right, but i dont think theres much harm adding an older release |
| 10:32.56 | mi11k1 | thats just my opinion |
| 10:33.15 | mi11k1 | I use VMs though, mistakes dont mean much |
| 10:33.25 | jil | no problem, it's good to learn |
| 10:33.40 | mi11k1 | jil, if you added a newer release |
| 10:33.52 | mi11k1 | it would try and update everything to the new one |
| 10:33.58 | quadrathoch2 | normally when you want to have something off of an older release, look into a vm, container or chroot |
| 10:34.19 | jil | ok |
| 10:34.28 | mi11k1 | quadrathoch2, ya, but thats more than he was looking for |
| 10:34.37 | mi11k1 | youre right though |
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| 10:35.40 | mi11k1 | jil, what are u doing anyways? |
| 10:35.43 | quadrathoch2 | idk i would rather look up, how you do the stuff the right way, than maybe at some point break your install |
| 10:36.04 | mi11k1 | ya, but its unlikly to break for that |
| 10:36.25 | mi11k1 | whats wrong with flicking switches before looking it up? |
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| 10:37.04 | mi11k1 | i look it up when im stumped |
| 10:37.40 | mi11k1 | you learn more from mistakes, not from cut paste some guys blog |
| 10:38.33 | mi11k1 | once youve learned not to f up a windows install, linux is easy |
| 10:39.05 | quadrathoch2 | who was talking about copy paste mindlessly? you should still try to understand what you are doing. so you can replicate it at some point |
| 10:39.18 | mi11k1 | where do you find proper guides? |
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| 10:40.57 | mi11k1 | heres some terrible advice....follow ubuntu guides |
| 10:41.04 | mi11k1 | its pretty much the same |
| 10:41.24 | mi11k1 | *kerplunk |
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| 10:42.12 | quadrathoch2 | ask the right people? look for the debian documentation aka wiki, handbook etc |
| 10:42.33 | mi11k1 | he was asking |
| 10:42.36 | mi11k1 | i told him |
| 10:43.06 | mi11k1 | guy doesnt even speak english.....hes fine |
| 10:45.15 | quadrathoch2 | and seems like you gave him a wrong answer :/ |
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| 10:48.33 | Psy-Q | b1nny: oh, thanks! yes, that could help tide us over until we can do other kinds of monitoring. i always wanted to get rid of SNMP anyhow, this might be a chance |
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| 10:52.52 | b1nny | Psy-Q: hehe :) I don't mind SNMP too much to be honest. It has its issues, but it works pretty well overall, and *every* device supports it, which is really nice |
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| 10:55.07 | Psy-Q | we only use it between our debian machines and a stupid windows-centric german monitoring solution they bought one day |
| 10:55.36 | Psy-Q | i think our network people use SNMP for actual network stuff, i guess that makes more sense and is probably also less frustrating |
| 10:55.41 | Ashleee | monitoring? You mean Prometheus? :) |
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| 11:34.25 | Aavar | I am trying to mount a smb share "sudo mount -t cifs -o user=aavar //192.168.1.157/Volumes/Media/archives /var/cache/apt/archives" Is this command correct? |
| 11:37.09 | quadrathoch2 | Aavar sounds about right |
| 11:40.11 | Antoine| | Hello, I have a debian home server that I use for file sharing with Samba. I have two 2 TB drives formatted in ext4 at the moment. I am thinking about buying a new 4 TB drive and at the same time I'd like to add protection for data corruption / disk failure. |
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| 11:41.21 | Antoine| | Should I switch to either btrfs or zfs and use RAID5/RAIDZ? |
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| 11:42.18 | Antoine| | I have read it would be a waste of space to use btrfs and RAID5 with those 3 different size disks |
| 11:43.01 | Antoine| | I have also read that zfs can use disks of different size with RAID (RAIDZ?) |
| 11:43.13 | quadrathoch2 | Antoine| raid5 on btrfs is not stable right now |
| 11:43.37 | quadrathoch2 | so you would need to go another config or zfs |
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| 11:44.35 | Antoine| | Ok. I saw that zfs is only available on backports. Is it an issue? |
| 11:44.45 | Antoine| | I wouldn't want to lose stability if I use backports |
| 11:45.42 | quadrathoch2 | Antoine| it is also available in the normal stable repository, but seems like most people go with backports, as the newer features are interesting |
| 11:46.29 | quadrathoch2 | https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=zfs-dkms here you see that it is in stable ;) |
| 11:47.29 | Antoine| | quadratohch2: Ah, I was doing `apt search zfsutils-linux` |
| 11:49.11 | quadrathoch2 | as you would need to install both _shrug_ ^^ |
| 11:49.17 | quadrathoch2 | Antoine| ^ |
| 11:49.58 | Antoine| | So is RAIDZ the equivalent of RAID5 for zfs? Can I use it (or something similar) with disks of different size? |
| 11:50.15 | Antoine| | quadrathoch2: So I need the backports then? |
| 11:50.59 | quadrathoch2 | Antoine| you can, but it would only use 2tb of the 4 |
| 11:53.16 | Antoine| | quadrathoch2: Hmm, then would you know what this guys is reffering to? https://superuser.com/questions/380192/can-i-set-up-a-raid-5-with-a-bunch-of-drives-of-different-sizes |
| 11:53.18 | Antoine| | "3) Use a RAID system that allows redundant storage on non-equal volumes. ZFS is a good example of this." |
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| 11:55.49 | quadrathoch2 | Antoine| as said, zfs can use different sizes, but it will only use the smallest amount avail on all disks |
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| 11:57.46 | Antoine| | (Ah, my bad, zfs is in contrib and I don't have it turned on) |
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| 11:59.12 | Antoine| | quadrathoch2: Ah ok, that's not how I understood that sentence, my bad |
| 11:59.46 | quadrathoch2 | Antoine| btrfs can do what you want, but raid5 is still not stable :/ so not production ready |
| 12:00.02 | Antoine| | Then when I need to get more storage, how will I do? Do I need to always buy packs of three disks if I want to use raidz? |
| 12:00.31 | quadrathoch2 | at least 3 ;) Antoine| |
| 12:00.54 | quadrathoch2 | zfs is not really consumer friendly as it was always written for enterprise :/ |
| 12:02.31 | Antoine| | When you said btrfs can do what I want, did you mean using something like raid5 (or at least someting with protection for disk failure) on disks of different size? |
| 12:03.05 | quadrathoch2 | Antoine| yes. but as I said. not recommended right now. even upstream tells you not to use it |
| 12:03.52 | Antoine| | Yep yep ok :) |
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| 12:04.25 | quadrathoch2 | Antoine| you can try it, but you _will_ have data loss ^^ |
| 12:04.28 | Antoine| | Is it a matter of a few weeks/months or should I just not wait for it? |
| 12:04.33 | Antoine| | (before stable) |
| 12:04.47 | Antoine| | haha that's what I'm trying to avoid :D |
| 12:05.29 | quadrathoch2 | who knows. afaik, nobody really works on it. as most enterprises use btrfs (for now) on a raid10 or the like |
| 12:07.30 | quadrathoch2 | Antoine| you I guess you would need to look for 3 new disks, or look for another solution :/ |
| 12:08.19 | quadrathoch2 | (honestly probably rather 4 disks, as raid5 is not _that_ recommended) but it depends on how important that data is for you |
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| 12:13.24 | Antoine| | I could always just buy a new 2 Tb disk so I could do RAID5 but I wanted a new disk to get more storage as well.. |
| 12:13.38 | Antoine| | 4 disks so I could do RAID10? |
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| 12:14.14 | Antoine| | oh I didn't raid5 wans't that recommended |
| 12:15.08 | Antoine| | And that data is nice to have but not that important. It's data that can be redownloaded if needed |
| 12:15.25 | Antoine| | I just don't fancy downloading a few terabytes ^^ |
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| 12:21.59 | quadrathoch2 | Antoine| yeah I get you. so 4 disks for 10 or raid6 |
| 12:22.07 | quadrathoch2 | but if you tell me it's not that important go raid5 ;) |
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| 12:22.41 | quadrathoch2 | the issue is, with raid5 you are only 'able' to lose 1 disks before losing data, with raid6 it's 2, so the likelyhood of loosing data is drastically lower |
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| 12:30.35 | NetTerminalGene | ,v firefox-esr |
| 12:30.37 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.7.0esr-1~deb10u1; jessie-security: 68.9.0esr-1~deb8u2; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 68.10.0esr-1; buster-security: |
| 12:30.38 | judd | 68.11.0esr-1~deb10u1; sid: 68.11.0esr-1 |
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| 13:12.23 | Antoine| | quadrathoch2: Ok :). What if I'd like to have more than 4 Tb of storage. Each time I will upgrade, I'll need to buy a pack of three disks, right? |
| 13:14.21 | bendem | whispers in french about LVM |
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| 13:18.22 | Antoine| | Voyons voir :) |
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| 13:20.13 | Fox | last time I tried it didn't work, maybe because I insulted it in french :) |
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| 13:32.13 | Antoine| | bendem: So would I need to create three logical volumes, each of size (2+2+4)/3 Tb then I could do a raid5? |
| 13:32.41 | Antoine| | If I do that and a disk fail, would I be able to recover data? |
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| 13:32.58 | Antoine| | fails* |
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| 13:36.44 | bendem | you would create a volume group that groups all the disks into one |
| 13:37.12 | bendem | and then create logical volumes with the -m flag. that flag tells lvm to store your data on at least N disks |
| 13:37.32 | bendem | so with -m 2, your data is redundantly stored on at least 2 disks |
| 13:38.05 | bendem | adding a new disk is two commands (one to initiate a physical volume on the new disk and one to link it to the existing volume group |
| 13:38.31 | bendem | it's not raid 5, but to be fair, raid 5 was never good, rebuilds fail all the time |
| 13:38.48 | bendem | it's raid 0 (merging disks) and raid 1, duplicating writes |
| 13:39.05 | bendem | you can even add a SSD to your lvm that serves only as cache |
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| 13:54.53 | Antoine| | bendem: Ok, sounds interesting! So if I buy a new 4 Tb disk, I wouldn't get any more space since I already have two disks of 2 Tb |
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| 13:55.06 | Antoine| | But I would get disk failure protection :) |
| 13:55.09 | Antoine| | I'll probably do that :) |
| 13:55.36 | bendem | You could decide |
| 13:55.48 | Antoine| | bendem: Which filesystem should I use with such a setup? |
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| 13:56.22 | bendem | say you have a backup logical volume that you want deplicated, create a volume of 100GB and 2 mirrors, the rest lives in a 3.5TB with 1 mirror |
| 13:56.44 | bendem | or the other way around, small partition for non critical stuff, larger partition mirrored for the rest |
| 13:57.06 | bendem | anything you like, I use ext4 but anything the kernel supports will work fine |
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| 13:59.11 | Antoine| | Do I need to format my drives to create an LVM? I already use ext4 on both my drives |
| 14:00.34 | bendem | you need to run pvcreate on a disk or partition which will wipe that disk or partition |
| 14:01.46 | bendem | since you can extend the logical volume, you can transfer stuff from the existing partition to the volume part at a time, extending as you go |
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| 14:02.02 | bendem | but generally, I'd recommend doing the whole second disk |
| 14:02.20 | bendem | first disk will need to be a partition since /boot and uefi can't live in lvm |
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| 14:12.10 | Antoine| | I think I'll just keep my system partition as is. I'll just create LVM for my storage |
| 14:12.18 | Antoine| | I have a small 80 Gb drive for my system |
| 14:12.30 | bendem | sounds like a plan |
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| 14:14.36 | Antoine| | Then if a disk fails, what will I need to do? Replace it and then, will LVM rebuild it automatically? |
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| 14:16.18 | bendem | You can tell LVM to still start with a missing disk, you'd pull the failed disk out of the volume group, and add another back in, LVM will move the data to another disk to keep the correct amount of mirror |
| 14:16.19 | bendem | https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/logical_volume_manager_administration/mirrorrecover |
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| 14:19.36 | Antoine| | Thanks for the link :) |
| 14:19.59 | Antoine| | I'll need to read more about LVM but that sounds good to me :). Thanks for all the info! |
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| 14:22.41 | quadrathoch2 | Antoine| sorry, got an emergency. but I see you already got some help :) |
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| 15:16.45 | Antoine| | quadrathoch2: No worries :). Yes, I think I'll go with LVM, seems like a good option to me |
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| 15:17.18 | quadrathoch2 | yeah that was another thing I wanted to recommend. but as you started out with zfs/btrfs ;) |
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| 15:27.28 | Pinchiukas | What package contains the kernel image? |
| 15:27.51 | Haohmaru | one that has "image" and "linux in its name |
| 15:28.07 | Pinchiukas | I can't find one in packages.debian.org. Don't have a Debian machine handy. |
| 15:29.00 | nkuttler | Pinchiukas: linux-image-<version> |
| 15:29.54 | Pinchiukas | Ah found it. The search on that page is weird. :/ |
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| 15:30.50 | Pinchiukas | No wait, it seems I'm not finding a linux-image package in buster. |
| 15:31.46 | quadrathoch2 | Pinchiukas i'm not sure why, but for buster it can't fine any packages for that |
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| 15:32.22 | Pinchiukas | Maybe they changed the packaging? |
| 15:32.32 | Haohmaru | i doubt it |
| 15:32.40 | quadrathoch2 | it is still the same :/ |
| 15:32.49 | quadrathoch2 | anything you wanna know? |
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| 15:33.08 | Pinchiukas | I'm writing a script to debootstrap Debian and I need a virtual package name. :) |
| 15:33.39 | quadrathoch2 | Pinchiukas linux-image-amd64 ;) |
| 15:33.48 | quadrathoch2 | which pulls always the latest |
| 15:34.05 | Pinchiukas | I take it there isn't one that somehow figures out the architecture automagically? |
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| 15:34.18 | quadrathoch2 | you would need to script that |
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| 15:34.42 | Haohmaru | what if you just install multiple? |
| 15:34.52 | quadrathoch2 | multiple what? Haohmaru |
| 15:34.56 | Haohmaru | (i guess that's gonna waste lots of space) |
| 15:35.01 | Pinchiukas | The whole idea of mine is to get a minimal install! :) |
| 15:35.09 | karlpinc | Haohmaru: And if it tried to boot the wrong arch.... |
| 15:35.29 | Haohmaru | karlpinc .. would vomit an error? |
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| 15:35.46 | karlpinc | Haohmaru: Or run an i386 kernel on a 64 bit box. |
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| 15:36.05 | Haohmaru | is that toooooo bad? |
| 15:36.36 | karlpinc | Pinchiukas: What are you trying to do? (Why not run the netinstall in expert mode and ask for a minimal install?) |
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| 15:37.00 | Pinchiukas | karlpinc: I'm trying to automate this. Also do 'debootstrap --variant=minbase'. |
| 15:37.46 | karlpinc | Haohmaru: Well, it either wouldn't work with 64 bit user binaries/libraries or you'd wind up with a 32 bit install and wouldn't be able to run a 64 bit kernel. |
| 15:38.06 | Haohmaru | k |
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| 15:38.58 | karlpinc | Pinchiukas: I've not tried. I presume the installation manual would be helpful. (Something, somewhere, explains "preseeding" and how to automate installs.) |
| 15:39.26 | karlpinc | !preseed |
| 15:39.26 | dpkg | [preseed] Preseeding provides a way to set answers to questions asked during the Debian installation process, to allow for a streamlined or completely automated installation. The <install guide> provides an extensive appendix on preseeding with a full example. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Preseed and http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/394 . See also <debconf-set-selections>. |
| 15:39.44 | Pinchiukas | I decided I'll just install linux-image-$(dpkg --print-architecture) since this method doesn't really support cross-arch. |
| 15:39.56 | quadrathoch2 | i don't think preseed helps. as minbase is smaller than minimal install :/ |
| 15:40.03 | Pinchiukas | Maybe at most x86/amd64 at some point. |
| 15:40.05 | quadrathoch2 | sounds good. should be enough |
| 15:40.27 | Pinchiukas | Or am I reinventing the wheel? Maybe someone did this already? :) |
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| 15:43.41 | karlpinc | quadrathoch2: Most people want more than an absolute minimal install. I forget the package priority levels but usually to have something functional you want at least one step up from the absolute minimum. If you're not planning on any users and just are building an appliance then perhaps you start with the absolute minimum. |
| 15:44.17 | quadrathoch2 | karlpinc I know. but honestly as he looks for minbase, there is probably a reason ;) |
| 15:44.39 | Haohmaru | this package search on debian.org is ... WTF |
| 15:44.58 | karlpinc | Haohmaru: Have you tried packages.debian.org? |
| 15:45.15 | Haohmaru | if you try "linux-image-amd64" it finds it, also finds the -dbg variant.. if you try "linux-image" - nuffin |
| 15:45.50 | karlpinc | Haohmaru: There's some built-in limit on the number of results. Too many and -- no results. |
| 15:45.50 | Haohmaru | karlpinc yes, that one |
| 15:46.22 | karlpinc | Haohmaru: I tend to use "aptitude search". |
| 15:46.44 | karlpinc | Haohmaru: But that only finds packages available for the installed system. |
| 15:46.47 | Haohmaru | the question was from a guy who doesn't have debian at hand |
| 15:46.54 | tomreyn | apt search, apt-file search, rmadison, dak ls |
| 15:46.57 | quadrathoch2 | yeah but even linux-image-4.19 doesn't give you anything (for buster) |
| 15:47.23 | karlpinc | Haohmaru: _Maybe_ sources.debian.org would also be helpful. |
| 15:49.23 | Haohmaru | Pinchiukas perhaps going thru "view all the packages" and then https://packages.debian.org/stable/kernel/ .. plus some ctrl+f on the page |
| 15:50.44 | tw | Is it possible to scan a read-only device for filesystem errors? eg, a read-only loopback file. It's not mounted. Filesystem is ext4. |
| 15:52.05 | karlpinc | Pinchiukas: This is all I see about cross-arch installs: https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/apds03.html.en (There's also a debootstrap page on wiki.debian.org.) |
| 15:52.54 | Pinchiukas | I'll leave cross-arch out for now. |
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| 15:53.19 | dob1 | any idea how to have minicom to echo user input? |
| 15:53.21 | karlpinc | tw: "man fsck.ext4" It says use -c (or just have the fs mounted read-only, seemingly.) |
| 15:53.24 | Pinchiukas | I was asking if maybe there's already something that does this - install a minbase debian/ubuntu without all the manual steps. |
| 15:53.24 | dob1 | while typing |
| 15:53.29 | tomreyn | tw: i don't see why not |
| 15:54.16 | karlpinc | Pinchiukas: Seems like the easy way is by pxebooting and using the installer with a preseed file. But I don't know your requirements. |
| 15:54.45 | tw | karlpinc: error I get with -c https://paste.debian.net/1158457/ |
| 15:55.06 | tw | I get the same error without -c. |
| 15:55.26 | tw | device is RO, even for root. I don't want to change it, I just want to check it. |
| 15:55.53 | Pinchiukas | karlpinc: I'm not pxebooting actually. Sometimes I do this on a cloud VM like GCP and the like. |
| 15:56.01 | Pinchiukas | Also, isn't preseed stuff going away? |
| 15:56.19 | quadrathoch2 | Pinchiukas only for ubuntu |
| 15:57.08 | karlpinc | tw: Maybe also you need -n ? |
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| 16:01.38 | tw | karlpinc: that seems to have worked with -f -n. Thanks for the extra eyes. |
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| 16:15.37 | Pinchiukas | quadrathoch2: I guess that's why I decided not to use it. :| |
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| 16:27.06 | quadrathoch2 | Pinchiukas I mean for now there is still an option for preseed on ubuntu, but with 20.10 I guess that's going away :/ |
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| 17:06.26 | Pinchiukas | quadrathoch2: yeah I was looking for it to last longer. :) |
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| 17:32.39 | binaryhermit | ok, apparently the RedHat bug that prevents systems from booting after the latest GRUB update... is a thing on some Debian systems, maybe |
| 17:33.13 | sney | I suspect that's why my system has upgraded grub twice in the past 24 hours |
| 17:33.24 | binaryhermit | hmm |
| 17:33.34 | binaryhermit | sney: what version of grub do you have |
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| 17:34.12 | binaryhermit | (I could see them upgrading GRUB then releasing the old version of GRUB with a "newer" version number to roll back the breakage) |
| 17:34.27 | sney | I think I saw someone mention a regression fix, yeah |
| 17:34.29 | binaryhermit | if the bug couldn't be fixed quickly enough |
| 17:35.31 | binaryhermit | on this server, apt info grub2 reports (in part) Version: 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u2 |
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| 17:36.35 | binaryhermit | depends on 2 packages that appear to have the same version number (which makes sense given that grub2 is a metapackage) |
| 17:36.52 | sney | yep, and apt changelog for grub-pc 10u2 says "Fix a regression caused by "efi: fix some malformed device path arithmetic errors" |
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| 17:40.13 | binaryhermit | sbingner: that version of grub? |
| 17:40.29 | binaryhermit | err, sorry sbingner, meant to hilight sney there |
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| 17:41.33 | binaryhermit | honestly, I suspect issuing the old version with a version number that would "upgrade" the messed up version would be preferable to the current situation for this sort of breakage |
| 17:41.39 | sney | yes, the +deb10u2 security upload of grub. see 'apt changelog grub-pc' |
| 17:41.49 | binaryhermit | err, I meant, not doing anything |
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| 17:42.34 | binaryhermit | and work as fast as possible to issue a non-broken fixed version |
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| 17:42.52 | binaryhermit | I mean, without the "won't boot" thing and with the security fix |
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| 17:56.38 | ax562 | Morning folks! |
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| 18:00.05 | ax562 | I'm starting to wonder if Buster is for me. What are the advantages of going 11 vs 10? |
| 18:00.17 | kungfukrab | hello, does #debian-next still exist? |
| 18:00.35 | eigenfire | kungfukrab: Yes, but not on freenode. |
| 18:00.40 | kungfukrab | ah ok thanks :) |
| 18:00.45 | eigenfire | oftc |
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| 18:00.52 | kungfukrab | i use buster, quite happy with it |
| 18:00.55 | ax562 | What version are most folks on in here? |
| 18:01.11 | kungfukrab | i use buster |
| 18:01.13 | kungfukrab | 10.4 |
| 18:01.28 | ax562 | I'm really happy too. I'm just having technical difficulties getting my hardware working proper. |
| 18:01.36 | kungfukrab | oh i see :( |
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| 18:02.13 | quadrathoch2 | ax562 I guess with your system maybe bullseye could be a better fit. but with it being not released, there could be dragons :/ |
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| 18:03.01 | binaryhermit | also, testing and unstable don't get security updates per se IIRC |
| 18:03.24 | binaryhermit | and testing updates get held for like 10 days after they hit unstable or something? |
| 18:03.26 | ax562 | I'm not hating at all. I'm just thinking out loud |
| 18:03.40 | binaryhermit | I cringe when people recommend using testing in production because of that |
| 18:03.59 | ax562 | quadrothoch2 Is 11 called Bullseye? |
| 18:04.12 | sney | drivers are in the kernel. kernels from testing are available for stable, via backports. Currently the buster backport kernel is at 5.6 which is a significant upgrade from buster's 4.19, without having to upgrade the whole system. |
| 18:04.29 | binaryhermit | similarly, I cringe when people recommend ubuntu in production because universe doesn't get security updates as well |
| 18:04.30 | sney | !buster-backports |
| 18:04.30 | dpkg | Some packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ . Ask me about <bdo>, <backports>. |
| 18:04.32 | greycat | ax562: we try to discourage polling, because we don't want hundreds of people saying what version of Debian they use. That said, most people here probably run stable, but there's a *large* range of versions in use at any time. |
| 18:05.01 | binaryhermit | and an awful lot of Ubuntu's software is in universe, but I digress |
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| 18:05.41 | ax562 | hmmm |
| 18:05.46 | binaryhermit | honestly, debian stable plus backports plus flatpak or snap can make desktop use less... out of date |
| 18:06.04 | quadrathoch2 | binaryhermit sure then you can tell ax562 how bumblebee works on buster |
| 18:06.20 | binaryhermit | I don't even know what bumblebee is |
| 18:06.28 | ax562 | lol |
| 18:06.44 | sney | consider yourself lucky |
| 18:06.44 | greycat | binaryhermit: thank whatever deities you can find |
| 18:06.51 | ax562 | banaryhermit how's performance? |
| 18:07.26 | binaryhermit | I mean, outside of issues related to only having 4GB of RAM and an old spinning rust disk... |
| 18:07.49 | binaryhermit | basically, if I end up hitting swap, it crawls to a stop |
| 18:08.02 | binaryhermit | (Though Windows 10 is worse since it's constantly swapping here) |
| 18:09.44 | binaryhermit | I've got firefox from flatpak, quasselclient, and korganizer running with 1GB of zram swap... |
| 18:10.24 | ax562 | binaryhermit you ever mess with swapiness? |
| 18:10.29 | binaryhermit | and I've got 587 MB of "available" RAM and 190 MB of free swap according to free -h |
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| 18:10.57 | binaryhermit | it's quite possible some of that swap is either duplicated in RAM or cache, or something |
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| 18:12.13 | binaryhermit | Honestly, if I had a SSD I'd turn swappiness way down due to lifespan concerns |
| 18:12.32 | *** join/#debian programmer8922 (~programme@c-76-113-124-24.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 18:12.42 | binaryhermit | that said I fail to see the point of buying a SSD for a 2009-era laptop |
| 18:13.31 | ax562 | lol |
| 18:13.50 | ax562 | It makes a difference but sounds like you have bottlenecks |
| 18:14.05 | binaryhermit | I know, I know, it'd make it subjectively faster, but throwing money at a laptop with a 2008 CPU and integrated intel graphics of a similar era... |
| 18:14.20 | ax562 | dont' do it |
| 18:14.31 | ax562 | it's better just investing in a new system |
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| 18:14.52 | binaryhermit | Core2Duo P9600 |
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| 18:15.04 | ax562 | cachepressure is another good one you might want to look at |
| 18:15.07 | binaryhermit | so it's presumably not *that* bad for 2008 |
| 18:15.19 | ax562 | what freq? 2.4? |
| 18:15.39 | binaryhermit | 2.66 I think |
| 18:15.40 | ax562 | nah, that sounds like a project :P |
| 18:15.56 | kungfukrab | i only have an AMD A8 at 2.06 Ghz * 4 |
| 18:15.59 | kungfukrab | and 6 GB ram |
| 18:16.00 | ax562 | I used to have a 2.2 2duo back in the day |
| 18:16.14 | kungfukrab | it goes along well with xfce |
| 18:16.28 | binaryhermit | I mean, it has more cores and higher clocks than celeries of the day |
| 18:16.36 | ax562 | I think old hardaware runs very well on linux |
| 18:16.41 | kungfukrab | seems to yes |
| 18:17.04 | ax562 | I'm really surprised how efficient buster is |
| 18:17.06 | ax562 | I really like |
| 18:17.15 | ax562 | just need to get drivers working |
| 18:17.16 | binaryhermit | scratch that,there were dual-core celeries back then too |
| 18:17.42 | kungfukrab | i had a laptop years ago that had an AMD C50, 1ghz *2 |
| 18:17.42 | ax562 | I would recommend window 8.1 over 10 if possible |
| 18:17.45 | kungfukrab | that was awful |
| 18:18.03 | kungfukrab | win10 is very bloated |
| 18:18.14 | kungfukrab | i haven't had windows on a machine in 4 years |
| 18:18.42 | binaryhermit | I don't know if Windows 10 is bloated, but it hits swap horrendously |
| 18:18.43 | ax562 | I'[ve never even been on 10 |
| 18:18.49 | ax562 | hopefully never will |
| 18:18.58 | ax562 | it's super bloated! |
| 18:19.02 | kungfukrab | yes |
| 18:19.36 | ax562 | it's basically a portal to your mem space that the g0v owns |
| 18:19.41 | kungfukrab | heh |
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| 18:23.00 | ax562 | I actually might never be on windows again..well scratch that. most best software is on either win or mac |
| 18:23.17 | annadane | not really |
| 18:23.27 | ax562 | yeah, I'm rethinking that |
| 18:23.36 | ax562 | most popular best software |
| 18:23.58 | ax562 | I work on Pro Tools too |
| 18:24.58 | sney | I still have a gaming machine that runs windows. if the government/microsoft/sekr3t illuminati overlords want to waste time spying on my steam usage, they can feel free, lol |
| 18:25.02 | ax562 | anyone recommend any good read on backporting with Debian? |
| 18:25.24 | ax562 | sney that's the point. they got us like , whatever. |
| 18:25.26 | ax562 | not cool |
| 18:26.00 | ax562 | I get it, most don't have anything to hide, point being principles |
| 18:26.22 | kungfukrab | i like how stable and simple debian is |
| 18:26.35 | ax562 | sney my nvidia hw works super dope on windoze |
| 18:26.44 | ax562 | yeah, me too |
| 18:26.44 | sney | imagine that |
| 18:26.49 | kungfukrab | hehe |
| 18:27.09 | ax562 | sney do you backport at all? |
| 18:27.31 | sney | the 2-gpu multiplexed gpu setup was designed *exclusively* for windows. linux support came later and was mostly reverse engineered. you can guess why nobody here wants those laptops |
| 18:27.56 | sney | yes, I backport (and front-port?) packages sometimes |
| 18:28.08 | ax562 | nice |
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| 18:28.25 | ax562 | is there anything to recommend for someone knew to the debian backporting game? |
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| 18:28.55 | kungfukrab | strangely enough my amd radeon drivers work fine |
| 18:29.00 | kungfukrab | i have an APU - cpu / gpu |
| 18:29.07 | ax562 | Yeah, I understand why the hw works better on certain OS. Mac probably has the most stable software/hardware combo |
| 18:29.20 | kungfukrab | mac is BSD based |
| 18:29.22 | kungfukrab | darwin bsd |
| 18:29.37 | sney | read this article, try to understand every individual step, and rebuild packages that you need, trying as much as you can to fix any problems before asking IRC randos to hold your hand. https://wiki.debian.org/SimpleBackportCreation |
| 18:29.40 | ax562 | bsd was what again |
| 18:29.54 | sney | berkeley systems distribution. the west coast unix |
| 18:29.58 | kungfukrab | yes |
| 18:30.04 | ax562 | sney thanks I think :p |
| 18:30.35 | sney | the nmg is also good for understanding the debian packaging toolchain and principles. |
| 18:30.38 | sney | !nmg |
| 18:30.38 | dpkg | The packaging tutorial (https://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (https://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. https://www.debian.org/devel/ |
| 18:31.31 | kungfukrab | i remember slackware 8.1 - i got winmodem drivers to work (linuxant) on linux, i custom compiled a kernel for it - it still did the odd kernel panic though :p |
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| 18:31.47 | kungfukrab | then i got broadband :) |
| 18:32.18 | ax562 | lol |
| 18:32.20 | sney | winmodems were such a mess, that hardware vendors refused to learn their lesson and kept releasing devices that were mostly implemented in software |
| 18:32.23 | ax562 | sney thanks! gold! |
| 18:32.41 | kungfukrab | sney: yes exactly |
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| 18:33.44 | ax562 | I really like this Debian community as well! |
| 18:33.54 | kungfukrab | i remember taking 24-32 hours to download a linux iso on dial-up |
| 18:34.00 | kungfukrab | with a downloader program to save progress |
| 18:34.01 | LuxInterior | wasn't it when Jobs got fired from Apple he created Darwin or so ? |
| 18:34.03 | ax562 | lol |
| 18:34.11 | ax562 | sounds like my network connection now |
| 18:34.12 | kungfukrab | LuxInterior: i'm not sure |
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| 18:34.41 | LuxInterior | or that became Android as i recall |
| 18:34.49 | ax562 | I don't think Jobs ever got fired from Apple. He was apple wasn't he? |
| 18:35.05 | ax562 | oh hell nah. Android and jobs |
| 18:35.08 | kungfukrab | hmmm he took some time away, we'll say |
| 18:35.08 | LuxInterior | famously was fired |
| 18:35.13 | kungfukrab | :) |
| 18:35.25 | sney | then he went to work for NeXT, then came back to apple and a lot of NeXT became OSX |
| 18:36.46 | kungfukrab | i think ID software used the NeXT os to code some of their games on? |
| 18:36.46 | LuxInterior | apple might have gone bankrupt and disappeared but I think MS-Gates invested in it, and agreed to write some MS office for mac |
| 18:36.48 | kungfukrab | googles |
| 18:37.14 | kungfukrab | https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/09/01/why-john-carmack-chose-next-for-developing-doom-and-other-favorites/#4c89d86014d1 |
| 18:37.20 | ax562 | Is Bill Gates the Anti-Christ? |
| 18:37.27 | sney | the 90s were an interesting time for computers. |
| 18:37.33 | kungfukrab | :) |
| 18:37.35 | ax562 | the 90's rocked! |
| 18:37.49 | ax562 | First puter Compaq Presario! |
| 18:38.04 | kungfukrab | i had a packard bell in 1996 |
| 18:38.08 | kungfukrab | it was garbage |
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| 18:38.11 | ax562 | Nice! |
| 18:38.11 | LuxInterior | then we'd all still be on Nokia phones |
| 18:38.13 | ax562 | lol |
| 18:38.51 | ax562 | Shit, I heard Nokia still owns a lot of cellular tech patents, we might still be on Nokial |
| 18:38.52 | diogenes_ | is on Nokia |
| 18:39.09 | ax562 | diogenes_ really? |
| 18:39.25 | diogenes_ | ax562, yes |
| 18:39.45 | ax562 | Is it one with a dope camera? |
| 18:39.54 | LuxInterior | and PDAs |
| 18:40.41 | ax562 | I actually always liked Nokia HW. |
| 18:40.42 | diogenes_ | camera doesn't matter to me. |
| 18:40.58 | ax562 | Motorola FTW! |
| 18:41.28 | ax562 | diogenes_ any particular reason you on Nokia? |
| 18:41.51 | kungfukrab | samsung for me |
| 18:42.36 | ax562 | Samsung rocked in it's early hay days. The are the Apple of the east now. |
| 18:42.43 | kungfukrab | hm |
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| 18:42.49 | diogenes_ | ax562, well i don't see any reason to have a smartphone and my friends make fun of me. |
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| 18:43.20 | ax562 | diogenes_ oh ok. You are one of the smart ones. My uncle is like that too |
| 18:43.33 | diogenes_ | my Nokia doesn't even have internet stack. |
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| 18:43.38 | ax562 | He leaves his digital baggage at home |
| 18:43.56 | ax562 | really, that's the way to go |
| 18:45.40 | diogenes_ | it was only once when i thought i wouldn't manage without a smartphone when i went on a trip alone to a foreign country but, to my surprise, i did well in finding all the locations i needed without any smarphone maps and stuff. |
| 18:46.00 | ax562 | Ibinaryhermit did you really get your nvidia hw working on Buster? |
| 18:46.22 | ax562 | diogenes_ cool |
| 18:46.28 | ax562 | binaryhermit did you really get your nvidia hw working on Buster? |
| 18:46.34 | f8e4 | hey |
| 18:46.40 | f8e4 | what is default bittorent client on debian? |
| 18:46.44 | f8e4 | cant find none |
| 18:46.50 | binaryhermit | ax562: I don't have nvidia hardware |
| 18:46.51 | ax562 | transmission is cool |
| 18:46.54 | f8e4 | bash: transmission: command not found |
| 18:46.57 | ax562 | oh ok |
| 18:47.10 | greycat | !installit |
| 18:47.10 | dpkg | Your box does not come with every application, tool and utility known to debiankind installed already. If you find that the program you've been told to use isn't there, install it. Also ask me about <search>. If someone suggests an application to you, it's highly likely that it's available via apt-get or aptitude. |
| 18:47.13 | quadrathoch2 | f8e4 what debian install do you have? as there is no default |
| 18:47.21 | f8e4 | deb10.2 |
| 18:47.22 | binaryhermit | Last NVidia HW I had, debian tried to use the intel graphics driver on, with predictable results |
| 18:47.34 | ax562 | someone said you got your hardware working using optimus |
| 18:47.46 | binaryhermit | but that was 2005 and probably related to my integrated intel graphics... |
| 18:47.52 | binaryhermit | debian woody, maybe? |
| 18:48.03 | ax562 | oh ok |
| 18:48.47 | quadrathoch2 | f8e4 you should update your system. that's outdated as crazy |
| 18:48.51 | kungfukrab | f8e4: just get deluge |
| 18:48.52 | diogenes_ | binaryhermit, it was during that time that Linus gave Nvidia the famouse finger :) and theat girl actually asked him about optimus technology :) |
| 18:48.52 | LuxInterior | f8e4: i believe you can look for a .deb |
| 18:49.07 | diogenes_ | that* |
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| 18:50.00 | kungfukrab | f8e4: if you want something more basic get transmission |
| 18:50.24 | LuxInterior | f8e4: apt search transmission |
| 18:50.31 | ax562 | ^ that part |
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| 18:51.45 | kungfukrab | transmission-gtk is one |
| 18:52.25 | f8e4 | got it thank you |
| 18:52.59 | f8e4 | anyone running a tor relay / experience with it / advisable? |
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| 18:56.19 | kungfukrab | ax562: did you set up your sudoers file? |
| 18:56.40 | kungfukrab | fair enough |
| 18:57.39 | kungfukrab | welp, off to fill my face with food, chat later |
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| 19:02.59 | mnathani | Using Buster with Gnome, can't seem to figure out how to show desktop icons or create a new one |
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| 19:04.10 | nvz | mnathani: use gnome-tweak-tool check in advanced settings, or y'know just don't use silly things like gnome |
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| 19:06.18 | jmcnaught | mnathani: you need to install the gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons package |
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| 19:10.28 | mnathani | jmcnaught: hmm... I already have that package installed |
| 19:10.48 | mnathani | how would I go about actually adding a shortcut though? |
| 19:11.32 | jmcnaught | mnathani: have you turned the extenion on in Tweaks? |
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| 19:12.26 | mnathani | I had not |
| 19:12.28 | mnathani | Thank you for that |
| 19:12.35 | mnathani | its working now |
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| 19:13.25 | f8e4 | i have a formatted sdcard, how to restore it after livecd image |
| 19:13.27 | yuri0x0 | Hi |
| 19:14.36 | sney | f8e4: restore what? |
| 19:14.47 | f8e4 | partition layouts |
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| 19:15.27 | f8e4 | like car, put back on old tires when done |
| 19:15.33 | sney | g/parted to change partitions, mkfs to "format" aka create filesystems |
| 19:16.31 | frunks | f8e4: 'dd if=/dev/sdb of=sdcard.backup' to backup |
| 19:16.56 | sney | a lot of dd back and forth can shorten the lifespan of flash memory though |
| 19:16.59 | frunks | f8e4: 'dd if=sdcard.backup of=/dev/sdb' to restore |
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| 19:17.13 | sney | not that it's expensive to replace, just fyi |
| 19:17.23 | yuri0x0 | Hi, I'm having a problem with alsa, I want to use an external lavalier microphone on my notebook, but I can't. My notebook has two inputs, one for a microphone and one for a headset |
| 19:18.35 | yuri0x0 | I'm using debian 9, n has the file alsa-base.conf in modprobe.d |
| 19:19.07 | sney | yuri0x0: do you see the device in 'arecord -l'? |
| 19:20.40 | yuri0x0 | Without the external microphone plugged in, I have the following output |
| 19:21.00 | sney | !paste |
| 19:21.00 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 19:21.23 | yuri0x0 | https://pastebin.com/6AywwhqR |
| 19:22.04 | yuri0x0 | Can you visualize? |
| 19:22.49 | sney | looks normal, if you plug in the microphone can you record a wav with arecord? |
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| 19:24.23 | yuri0x0 | It simply doesnât capture audio, Iâve moved everything everywhere, I used HdAjackRetask, to configure the pins, I donât know if I messed up too |
| 19:25.09 | sney | that's testing it with arecord, not some other program? |
| 19:27.32 | greycat | When work gave me a USB microphone to use for web meetings and stuff, I started using Pulse audio. Trying to figure out how to tell ALSA that device X should be used for output and device Y for in put is *completely* beyond me, and beyond sanity. Pulse just does it, automatically. |
| 19:28.25 | nkuttler | pulse has improved over the years, yeah |
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| 19:46.45 | float | Greetings, sweet homies. |
| 19:47.23 | float | I have a system that lacks some .la files. How do I get an automake project to build using only .so files instead of .la files? |
| 19:49.11 | ksk | I dont know what you are asking for, and I assume you do not know either :P |
| 19:49.24 | nvz | well do you have the .do .re .mi .fa files? |
| 19:49.53 | ksk | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1238035/what-are-libtools-la-file-for seems to have a decent explaination, but I cannot say anything about its quality. |
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| 19:50.19 | ksk | (which then comes down to: You don't) |
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| 19:50.45 | float | Apparently, la files are a new thing. |
| 19:50.50 | ksk | ah, you would need to create the .la file for your foo? |
| 19:50.56 | float | I remember everything used to build with .so files alone. |
| 19:51.17 | float | I guess I can always try that again. |
| 19:51.53 | float | puts a bucket over gelignite |
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| 20:11.15 | float | I read somewhere that deleting all the .la files fixes the problem because then they aren't used anymore. |
| 20:11.26 | float | You wind up with problems if you have partial .la files, apparently. |
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| 20:13.55 | float | How do you get into #linux? |
| 20:14.05 | float | I have certified l33tnes credentials. |
| 20:14.06 | greycat | try ##linux instead |
| 20:14.09 | float | Ah. |
| 20:14.17 | float | Thanks. |
| 20:14.36 | float | I forget, what's the difference between # and ## on this network? |
| 20:14.56 | sney | official/unofficial |
| 20:15.00 | float | Ahhhh. |
| 20:15.07 | float | Many thank yous. |
| 20:15.13 | greycat | For a time, freenode tried to force everyone to change their channel names to ## if they were not "official", which as near as I can tell meant "if the developer of the project was not in the channel". |
| 20:15.18 | greycat | Some changed, some did not. |
| 20:15.35 | yuri0x0 | The microphone I'm using is a p2 connector |
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| 20:16.25 | yuri0x0 | greycat |
| 20:16.54 | yuri0x0 | What can I do to make my external microphone work ? |
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| 20:20.01 | greycat | Plug it in. Make sure it shows up in dmesg output and/or lsusb. If not, try a different USB port. Start pulseaudio, if it's not already started. Use pavucontrol to verify it's working. If pavucontrol hangs, kill and restart pulseaudio until it works. |
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| 20:21.24 | yuri0x0 | My microphone is not a usb, but a p2 input |
| 20:21.34 | greycat | I don't even know what that *is*. |
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| 20:23.23 | yuri0x0 | https://http2.mlstatic.com/microfone-p2-de-lapela-p-gravar-videos-etcotimo-youtube-D_NQ_NP_690001-MLB31184453820_062019-F.jpg |
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| 20:24.37 | yuri0x0 | View ? |
| 20:25.32 | greycat | «P2 (P2 is a short form for "Professional Plug-In") is a professional digital recording solid-state memory[disambiguation needed] storage media format introduced by Panasonic in 2004» ... that? |
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| 20:26.28 | yuri0x0 | See the image I sent, my microphone is like that, look at the connector |
| 20:26.38 | greycat | jesus fucking christ |
| 20:26.41 | sney | that's a 2.5mm TRS plug. I'm not sure what "P2" is supposed to mean |
| 20:27.19 | greycat | Yeah, looks like a regular old analog headphone jack to me. |
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| 20:28.35 | greycat | If this goes into the audio card's "line in" or "microphone" hole, then your input device is the audio card. |
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| 20:29.42 | yuri0x0 | I understand, here in the region, we call it p2, now I know it's wrong, but anyway, how can I make this work |
| 20:30.09 | greycat | Run pulseaudio and make sure it works. Or figure out how to make ALSA work, which is significantly harder. |
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| 20:34.31 | DammitJim | we've used apt-get for many years, but someone in my team asked me if we should change to apt... there is no need to change to apt, right? |
| 20:34.43 | greycat | No need. |
| 20:35.05 | greycat | dpkg apt vs. apt-get |
| 20:35.05 | dpkg | apt is promoted over apt-get for interactive use. It uses fancy colors and has output format differences. It removes the .deb files that it downloads during an install or upgrade. It installs new packages during upgrades. apt-get has a stable command-line interface and is promoted for scripting. |
| 20:35.30 | yuri0x0 | E: [pulseaudio] main.c: pa_pid_file_create() falhou. |
| 20:35.30 | yuri0x0 | When running pulseaudio this error dae |
| 20:35.48 | sney | apt is also recommended for release upgrades because it can automatically handle the name change. |
| 20:35.48 | karlpinc | DammitJim: The only time the choice of "apt tool" really matters is during major release upgrade, when you follow the upgrade instructions. |
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| 20:36.37 | greycat | yuri0x0: before that, did it say something like "Daemon already running"? Because that's what the second google hit shows me.... |
| 20:37.03 | greycat | Oh, the first hit also. |
| 20:37.10 | DammitJim | oh ok, so apt is nice because it has some enhancements, but apt-get is still a viable option |
| 20:37.10 | DammitJim | thanks! |
| 20:37.24 | DammitJim | the person who asked me just said that it looks much prettier *sigh* |
| 20:37.34 | sney | lol. shiny and new |
| 20:37.50 | greycat | I find it unusable, because it wants to write in yellow text. Which is practically invisible on a white background. |
| 20:37.56 | sney | fewer keystrokes is why I switched |
| 20:38.04 | greycat | And there's *nothing* in the man page about how to turn off or change the colors. |
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| 20:38.41 | DammitJim | oh, so not so pretty for greatgatsby |
| 20:38.43 | DammitJim | greycat, |
| 20:41.16 | yuri0x0 | I changed the pins on HdAjackRetask, as I set the pin to connect the external microphone |
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| 20:45.10 | yuri0x0 | https://imgur.com/a/gMIHCMS |
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| 20:45.35 | greycat | So you're running the program named "jack"? |
| 20:45.41 | yuri0x0 | My HdAjackRetask configuration, do I need to change anything? |
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| 20:46.09 | yuri0x0 | Yes |
| 20:46.09 | greycat | !jack |
| 20:46.10 | dpkg | [jack] a colloquialism for a person who doesn't care about anything, or a CD ripping front-end (packaged as jack, http://www.home.unix-ag.org/arne/jack/), or the JACK Audio Connection Kit: a low-latency sound server, allowing multiple applications to connect to one audio device; install the jackd package to provide the current default JACK implementation. http://jackaudio.org/ #jack on irc.freenode.net. |
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| 20:47.02 | greycat | I think you'll find that very few people here still try to use ALSA or JACK. |
| 20:47.12 | yuri0x0 | To make my external microphone work, would I necessarily have to touch the pins? |
| 20:47.14 | greycat | Or if they use ALSA, it's for audio output only. |
| 20:47.21 | greycat | Ask #jack. |
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| 20:48.14 | yuri0x0 | I don't care if it is also, jack, or pulseaudio, I just want to make it work, what will come up? |
| 20:48.51 | greycat | You don't care, and yet you ignored what we advised and went with this other thing instead. |
| 20:49.18 | sney | stop pulse/jack, try to get it working with *just* recording a simple wav file with arecord. if that works, start adding other components. if that doesn't work, look at hardware. |
| 20:49.32 | sney | if you skip that test then you're just guessing and people in irc have limited patience for helping you guess. |
| 20:50.08 | greycat | in my experience, the *entire* problem is telling the software which device to use for audio input, and I have literally no idea how to do that in ALSA |
| 20:50.18 | greycat | but sure, there could be hardware issues as well |
| 20:52.01 | f8e4 | frunks nice |
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| 20:53.13 | quadrathoch2 | https://paste.debian.net/1158500/ is this enough to get wifi connection going? trying to connect to wifi on a minimal install (with wpasupplicant installed) |
| 20:53.29 | sney | quadrathoch2: yep |
| 20:53.47 | quadrathoch2 | sney weird, my interface doesn't come up and get a valid ip :/ |
| 20:54.07 | sney | what happens instead? |
| 20:55.00 | quadrathoch2 | sney interface is down has an ip of 168.254.8.221/16 which is not correct. and even if I set it up with ip link it doesn't come up |
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| 20:55.12 | quadrathoch2 | firmware is not needed ;) |
| 20:55.40 | sney | ifup gives output, what happens when you run 'ifup wls1'? |
| 20:56.16 | quadrathoch2 | already configured |
| 20:56.52 | sney | ifdown it, then ifup it again. we want to see it trying to get an address |
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| 20:58.27 | quadrathoch2 | no dhcpoffers sney |
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| 20:59.21 | yuri0x0 | I ran pulseaudio, but it just doesn't open any screens |
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| 21:00.00 | sney | quadrathoch2: ok. if you look at 'iw dev' under Interface, do you see your ssid and channel information? |
| 21:00.51 | quadrathoch2 | sney nope. I was asking myself right now if I would need to escape a ! in the name of the wifi |
| 21:01.29 | sney | the quotes should handle any special characters you have in the essid |
| 21:01.48 | quadrathoch2 | hm, kay as I thought. |
| 21:02.01 | quadrathoch2 | and I am sitting like 1m away from a repeater :/ |
| 21:02.05 | yuri0x0 | @greycat |
| 21:02.45 | sney | if 'iw dev' is only showing you 0.00 dBm and no ssid information, then you aren't associated to the network, and that's the problem you need to focus on. try using iw to associate manually, or maybe try double quotes in your interfaces file |
| 21:03.33 | sney | yuri0x0: don't use @ on irc, many clients ignore that kind of highlight. and again, if you don't have the results of the arecord test that I'm now mentioning for the 3rd time, you're just guessing randomly and you might as well do that by yourself |
| 21:04.21 | quadrathoch2 | sney, always use double quotes. that's what I always tell me |
| 21:04.25 | quadrathoch2 | but I never do |
| 21:04.49 | sney | heh |
| 21:06.11 | yuri0x0 | https://imgur.com/a/fQ3zsf4 |
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| 21:06.36 | sney | why go on irc at all if you're just going to ignore everyone's suggestions? |
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| 21:07.34 | greycat | "Plug it in. Make sure it shows up in dmesg output and/or lsusb. If not, try a different USB port. Start pulseaudio, if it's not already started. Use pavucontrol to verify it's working. If pavucontrol hangs, kill and restart pulseaudio until it works." |
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| 21:08.09 | yuri0x0 | Which are ? My main language is not English, and sometimes I get confused, I may have missed the suggestions, I executed the following commands |
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| 21:10.01 | yuri0x0 | Ok greycat |
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| 21:10.03 | yuri0x0 | a moment |
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| 21:10.53 | ax562 | I got it! |
| 21:10.59 | yuri0x0 | I ran the following dmesg | grep hda |
| 21:11.14 | yuri0x0 | https://pastebin.com/JJPyshWr |
| 21:11.28 | yuri0x0 | Command output is in pastebin |
| 21:11.59 | ax562 | Finally got my Nvidia hw running using "nvidia-xrun" . The nvidia-xrun.conf file needs to be modified to allow empty initial session |
| 21:12.35 | ax562 | Option "AllowEmptyInitialConfiguration" "Yes" |
| 21:12.40 | ax562 | needs to be uncommented |
| 21:13.13 | yuri0x0 | Did you observe the exit? |
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| 21:13.55 | greycat | Since your microphone is ANALOG and is being plugged INTO THE VIDEO CARD'S MIC HOLE, there will not be anything in dmesg for it. It's not a separate device. |
| 21:14.12 | greycat | Make sure pavucontrol sees it correctly. That is all. |
| 21:14.25 | greycat | s/VIDEO/AUDIO/ |
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| 21:16.34 | yuri0x0 | It simply does not capture the external audio, I think the pin configurations are not configured for the external microphone. |
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| 21:16.55 | greycat | So you're using JACK again. Go to #jack. They can help you with that. |
| 21:17.00 | yuri0x0 | https://imgur.com/a/fQ3zsf4 |
| 21:17.03 | greycat | Nothing else uses "pins". |
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| 21:18.18 | yuri0x0 | I'm insisting on this about the pins, and because the last change I made on the jack affected the pavucontrol, did the entry options change? understood ? |
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| 21:20.49 | EdePopede | i can't umount a partition because busy (it says). fuser and lsof both don't show anything, sync didn't help. what would be next? |
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| 21:22.03 | sney | you may have a shell open in a mounted directory |
| 21:23.55 | f8e4 | how to add a user to sudo if i have NO sudo user? |
| 21:24.03 | f8e4 | # sudo usermod aint cuttn |
| 21:24.12 | EdePopede | sney, that was it, thanks. totally forgot about it. |
| 21:24.36 | sney | f8e4: log in as root using your root password, then run usermod as usual |
| 21:24.54 | f8e4 | it says incident reported, but gorups shows sudo for 'user' |
| 21:25.28 | quadrathoch2 | f8e4 if you added the sudo group later, you would need to relogin |
| 21:25.42 | *** join/#debian Nefertiti (~Nefertiti@unaffiliated/nefertiti) |
| 21:25.47 | sney | or run 'newgrp' for the current session |
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| 21:28.10 | karlpinc | sney: I didn't know that newgrp did that. Thanks. |
| 21:28.31 | sney | np, it's kind of an odd one. I don't remember how I found out |
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| 21:29.26 | karlpinc | sney: Funny thing is, it could have worked that way since 1974, or it could have been something introduced in the last release. :) It's hard to keep up.... |
| 21:30.06 | sney | I'm guessing old but I don't know either |
| 21:30.30 | sney | apt says it's from shadow-utils, confirmed for old |
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| 21:52.02 | oxek | ,checkbackport vim-fugitive |
| 21:52.03 | judd | Backporting package vim-fugitive in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12). |
| 21:52.24 | oxek | is vim-fugitive the de-facto git plugin for vim? Or am I missing out on some better tool? |
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| 21:56.10 | quadrathoch2 | ,v debhelper-compat |
| 21:56.11 | judd | No package named 'debhelper-compat' was found in amd64. |
| 21:56.45 | sney | the package is debhelper, and that message from judd is an artifact anyway |
| 21:57.07 | quadrathoch2 | yeah, I was sure that debhelper was at 12 |
| 21:57.09 | quadrathoch2 | in buster |
| 21:58.25 | oxek | I already have debhelper from backports anyway |
| 21:58.48 | oxek | and I backport simple stuff like this for myself |
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| 22:01.10 | quadrathoch2 | weird question. I added a repository on my install which is amd64, but apt search pulls arm64 results oO. and yes the repo has amd64 stuff in it https://paste.debian.net/1158508/ |
| 22:01.22 | quadrathoch2 | even arch=amd64 doesn't help |
| 22:03.01 | sney | that's not arm64, that's arm32. pastebin your sources.list and the output of 'apt policy' |
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| 22:03.25 | quadrathoch2 | sney yeah but some results are armhf, some arm64 |
| 22:04.13 | quadrathoch2 | https://paste.debian.net/1158510/ sney |
| 22:05.59 | sney | and... |
| 22:06.08 | quadrathoch2 | arg sorry xD |
| 22:06.20 | sney | at first blush it does seem to be caused by this suse repo though |
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| 22:06.57 | quadrathoch2 | https://paste.debian.net/1158513/ |
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| 22:07.54 | sney | yeah, all of your debian stuff is normal, but opensuse has multiple binary arches listed in that repo's Packages file, so apt just shows them to you |
| 22:08.35 | quadrathoch2 | sney k thanks :) will contact the guys over at podman. but weird, that's the first time I am seeing this. as my other systems don't have that issue :( |
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| 22:09.05 | Antoine| | bendem: Did I misunderstand you earlier? I believe you said to use -m 2 to have my files in two different disks. Isn't it -m1? That's one mirror so that's already two copies, right? |
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| 23:14.48 | longears | Hmm. All the google results I find, for keeping the `iso` on a flash drive, are all about using `dd`. If it's possible to install `grub` and keep an `iso` file on it? It should be possible, that's how my live images work. But installation DVD for some reason fails. |
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| 23:15.45 | longears | I'm pretty sure I miss a couple of `grub` options and it should be something easy and obvious. Just can't figure out what's the problem. If you can please point me towards an article about it, that would help. |
| 23:15.53 | sney | I think there are methods to have the installer image on a partition and chainload isolinux with grub |
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| 23:16.16 | sney | I don't know about articles, but "chainload isolinux with grub" would probably be a decent starting point for search terms |
| 23:19.20 | jrtc27 | I did it once, it does work |
| 23:19.28 | ectospasm | longears: I just sent a PR/merge request that does exactly that: https://github.com/tblancher/glim |
| 23:19.33 | jrtc27 | (primarily because I was lazy) |
| 23:20.04 | ectospasm | I haven't tested it in Debian, not sure if the exfat-utils are up to snuff (need kernel 5.4+ for exFAT anyhow). |
| 23:20.12 | jrtc27 | although I think I just did it with the netboot installer |
| 23:20.19 | jrtc27 | so just needed to point it at a vmlinux and initrd |
| 23:20.26 | jrtc27 | so not quite what you want |
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| 23:21.45 | ectospasm | longears: glim.sh is designed to wipe and load a USB thumb drive, and it's intended for Linux live ISOs (just copy them to /mnt/boot/iso when the script finishes). THe script is in Bash so it should be straightforward to read. |
| 23:22.17 | ectospasm | The GRUB2 menu has submenus for all the different distros it finds in /boot/iso/<distro>/ |
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| 23:23.02 | ectospasm | The maintainer of the top-level GLIM project hasn't been responsive lately, not sure what the deal is. |
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| 23:32.26 | longears | Thanks guys. :) I'll look into it today. Looks like that's what I needed. |
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| 23:33.39 | longears | My `grub` is pointing to `loop /boot/iso/blah.iso` and has `linux` and `initrd` options after it. So the ISO boots up, I can set charset in it, etc. Then it gets to "mount the CD" and that's where it gets lost. |
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| 23:38.10 | ectospasm | longears: you may need the image device path as a GRUB variable. It really depends on the ISO. The GLIM project has a bunch of distro-related GRUB configs to see how some of them do it. |
| 23:38.37 | longears | Thanks. Will look into this weekend. |
| 23:42.17 | dfacto | what's the recommended way to install a single package from testing or unstable instead of stable by default? |
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| 23:42.42 | ectospasm | dfacto: I'd go with backports, myself. |
| 23:43.09 | ectospasm | The version you want might already be in the backports repository. |
| 23:43.38 | dfacto | in this case i wanted to try this out with nano, which is v3.2-3 and unstable is at 4.9.3-1 |
| 23:43.46 | ectospasm | dpkg: backports |
| 23:43.46 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
| 23:44.15 | ectospasm | dfacto: ^ |
| 23:44.26 | dfacto | ectospasm, thanks :) |
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| 23:45.11 | sney | ,v nano |
| 23:45.12 | judd | Package: nano on amd64 -- jessie: 2.2.6-3; stretch: 2.7.4-1; buster: 3.2-3; bullseye: 4.9.3-1; sid: 4.9.3-1 |
| 23:45.23 | sney | looks like it'd be a ssb in this case |
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| 23:47.32 | dfacto | just tested, pulling nano from backports brings in 3.2-3 |
| 23:47.47 | ectospasm | Then the ssb is the way to go. |
| 23:48.01 | sney | there isn't nano in backports so you just got the buster one. |
| 23:48.02 | sney | !ssb |
| 23:48.02 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
| 23:49.15 | dfacto | thanks |
| 23:54.07 | sney | some people on the internet will tell you that you can use pinning to install sid/testing packages on stable. this is technically true, but almost always a bad idea. I know rebuilding it seems like a nuisance but it's the way you need to go, if you want your system to be sane, and upgradable in the future. |
| 23:54.52 | dfacto | i've always stuck with stable (99% of the time) so I haven't messed around with building from sid yet. this is a good test for me to learn I guess |
| 23:55.38 | sney | yeah, with an editor you're unlikely to run into any problems |
| 23:56.15 | dfacto | right, just noticed nano was released to version 5, so figured I'd try the latest available in the debian repo |
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| 23:57.21 | dfacto | which actually makes me wonder, a package like nano being so "far behind", is there a reason for that? |
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