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| 00:00.34 | oxek | I downloaded the .deb for veracrypt, and ran 'sudo apt install ./veracrypt-1.24-Update4-Debian-10-amd64.deb'. It successfully installed but at the end it said: |
| 00:00.50 | oxek | N: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file '/home/user/Downloads/veracrypt-1.24-Update4-Debian-10-amd64.deb' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. - pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permission denied) |
| 00:01.12 | oxek | is that something problematic? |
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| 00:05.12 | mutante | oxek: see the details in especially the 3rd answer (with just 3 votes) on https://askubuntu.com/questions/908800/what-does-this-apt-error-message-download-is-performed-unsandboxed-as-root |
| 00:06.22 | mutante | oxek: TLDR: no, if your programm is installed and works, you can ignore that now |
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| 00:07.42 | oxek | safe to ignore then, thanks |
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| 00:08.43 | rrn | Hello, PTP is not working on Thunar on Xfce4 on 32 b x86 Debian. |
| 00:09.07 | rrn | volume management is enabled in Thunar's settings |
| 00:09.25 | oxek | rrn: install gvfs-fuse and gvfs-backends |
| 00:09.27 | rrn | Thunar's settings indicate that gvfs is apparently not installed, but it is in fact installed |
| 00:09.43 | rrn | I proceeded to install gvfs-backends; still indicating that not installed |
| 00:09.44 | oxek | sudo apt install gvfs-fuse gvfs-backends |
| 00:09.53 | rrn | I proceeded to install gvfs-fuse; still indicating that not installed |
| 00:10.28 | rrn | (yes, I did close all visible GUI instances of Thunar when checking each time) |
| 00:10.29 | oxek | I had the issue you describe, but it was fixed by installing those two packages (and maybe logging out/rebooting) |
| 00:11.02 | rrn | Why is it necessary to log out? |
| 00:11.17 | oxek | because fuse does weird stuff |
| 00:11.24 | rrn | ok, will try now |
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| 00:15.24 | dvs | uses oxek's explanation for all of Windows |
| 00:15.41 | oxek | agrees |
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| 00:21.20 | Trel | seconds the motion |
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| 00:27.06 | oxek | would be nice if rrn came back and let us know if everything works |
| 00:27.48 | oxek | tbf the 'gvfs not installed' in thunar is really annoying because 'gvfs' is installed, just the other packages aren't |
| 00:28.10 | oxek | I don't know if it is unique to the version of thunar (xfce?) in debian |
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| 01:26.23 | rrn | oxek: Yes, it worked after logging out and then in! |
| 01:26.43 | rrn | oxek: thanks |
| 01:27.09 | oxek | nice, thanks for reporting success |
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| 01:40.28 | AAC | hey. How do i change my interface in jessie? |
| 01:40.39 | AAC | like i want it to be like stretch interface |
| 01:41.54 | dvs | I assume by "interface" you mean your GUI |
| 01:41.57 | AAC | yes |
| 01:42.06 | AAC | i couldnt find a config tool..p |
| 01:42.10 | AAC | perhaps a stupid question |
| 01:42.14 | dvs | !detect dm |
| 01:42.14 | dpkg | performs an anal probe on dm and discovers a 10m satellite dish sticking out dm 's arse |
| 01:42.22 | dvs | damn! |
| 01:42.23 | mutante | lol |
| 01:42.51 | mutante | AAC: what is your current GUI called? do you know? |
| 01:42.59 | dvs | AAC, you can change it but you have to find out which one you have for stretch |
| 01:43.05 | sney | 'tasksel' will give you that menu from the installer that lets you pick your desktop environment. But "like stretch interface" is pretty vague so you should first figure out what it is that you want |
| 01:43.20 | dvs | AAC, BTW, jessie is no longer maintained. |
| 01:43.39 | mutante | AAC: i would first upgrade to current version (buster) |
| 01:43.41 | dvs | !jessie |
| 01:43.42 | dpkg | Jessie is the codename for the current <oldoldstable> release, Debian 8, released on 2015-04-25. Security support ended 2018-05-17, repos removed from mirrors around 2019-03-24, except for <jessie-lts>. Jessie is the cowgirl in Toy Story 2. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianJessie and ask me about <install jessie> <jessie release notes> <wheezy->jessie>. Last point release was <8.11>. |
| 01:44.00 | AAC | my window manager in the stretch is xfce, but i dont know the gnome version of it |
| 01:44.21 | AAC | my guess is the stretch distro im using the default gnome |
| 01:44.23 | dvs | xfce is xfce. It is not GNOME |
| 01:44.42 | AAC | i have a problem with disk free space :) |
| 01:44.48 | AAC | so i prefer not update for now |
| 01:45.43 | AAC | since this option is working...i dont want to upgrade |
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| 01:45.57 | AAC | already got one stretch in another HD |
| 01:46.32 | AAC | anyway, i dislike the whole feel and theme (i guess i call it like that)...perhaps i also need another window manager |
| 01:46.33 | AAC | dont know |
| 01:46.48 | AAC | can't see a configuration tool |
| 01:47.41 | dvs | you can remove the old DM first then install the new one |
| 01:47.51 | AAC | is that safe? |
| 01:47.57 | mutante | personally i would start by installing the xfce package... should be apt-get install xfce4 |
| 01:48.31 | AAC | i wonder what wm im using |
| 01:48.41 | dvs | AAC, you'll be without a DM until you install the new one. |
| 01:49.09 | dvs | mutante, AAC said low on disk space. |
| 01:49.17 | dvs | then again, xfce is smaller. |
| 01:49.35 | mutante | do an "apt-get clean" and see how much space that gets you |
| 01:49.43 | mutante | can be quite a bit over time |
| 01:49.46 | mutante | and it won't hurt |
| 01:50.19 | AAC | autoremove and clean 85M |
| 01:51.02 | mutante | hmm, how about finding what is big under /var/log/* and gzip some |
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| 01:53.18 | mutante | i dont know how much space exactly you need. if you are lucky all you have to do is install xfce package and what it pulls in and logout and then there is an option to chose which desktop to use at the login screen |
| 01:53.39 | AAC | ok hold on...let me check my free space |
| 01:54.20 | mutante | AAC: https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-find-largest-file-in-directory-recursively-using-find-du/ |
| 01:54.57 | AAC | 19G free :/ |
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| 01:55.03 | AAC | is that sufficient? |
| 01:55.28 | mutante | i would think so, yea |
| 01:56.04 | AAC | okay...so i need the window manager...how do i know what wm im using now?? on google, the results keep apearing as PACAKGEXXX DEBIAN |
| 01:56.21 | mutante | https://wiki.xfce.org/minimum_requirements |
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| 01:57.03 | mutante | well, disregard that page. that's for entire distro but also shows it is enough :) |
| 01:57.30 | AAC | heehhe ok good :) |
| 01:57.51 | AAC | so should i upgrade jessie?? only with 19G ?? i want later to install some apps |
| 01:58.37 | mutante | i found out about "wmctrl -m" and it shows the wm name |
| 01:58.45 | mutante | but i first had to install wmctrl package to have the command |
| 01:58.56 | mutante | wmctrl -m |
| 01:58.56 | mutante | Name: Metacity (Marco) |
| 01:59.40 | mutante | that's what i get on MATE desktop because it used to be GNOME2's wm |
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| 02:00.56 | AAC | oh let me try |
| 02:01.17 | dvs | AAC, you should upgrade to stretch first. |
| 02:01.54 | AAC | ok that's it..im upgrading to stretch :) lets hope everything is alright |
| 02:02.03 | AAC | by the way my pc i386 |
| 02:02.39 | AAC | Window manager's "showing the desktop" mode: N/A |
| 02:02.44 | AAC | that's what i got |
| 02:03.19 | mutante | I get the same message, seems "normal". but check the "Name:" line |
| 02:03.28 | mutante | the first line of the output |
| 02:04.07 | AAC | well..beleive it or not, GNOME Shell |
| 02:04.27 | AAC | wtf |
| 02:04.36 | mutante | that's unexpected. GNOME2 is Metacity and GNOME3 is Mutter, afaict |
| 02:04.55 | AAC | how can a wm be gnome-shell |
| 02:05.06 | mutante | i dunno. that's weird :) |
| 02:05.28 | mutante | well, at least we know it's "something GNOME related" |
| 02:06.14 | mutante | AAC: maybe you should just take some screenshots and do an reverse image search and that would work best :) |
| 02:06.46 | mutante | is there really no "System -> About" menu or something? |
| 02:06.59 | AAC | nope |
| 02:07.03 | AAC | just activities |
| 02:07.35 | jmcnaught | Are you trying to figure out which desktop environment you're currently using? Sounds like GNOME to me. |
| 02:07.37 | mutante | gnome-panel --version |
| 02:07.43 | mutante | try that ^ |
| 02:08.11 | AAC | Unknown option --version |
| 02:08.23 | AAC | jmcgnh, yes a lot :) |
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| 02:08.30 | AAC | that's a bit stupid..but that's what im asking |
| 02:08.31 | mutante | jmcnaught: yea, he wants to know the window manager, to be precise |
| 02:08.42 | mutante | under GNOME2 it is Metacity |
| 02:08.52 | mutante | under GNOME3 Wikipedia says it is called Mutter |
| 02:08.59 | AAC | well , i guess for gnome i can check the help docs..and try the about |
| 02:09.00 | AAC | hold on |
| 02:09.27 | mutante | gnome-about --gnome-version |
| 02:09.45 | mutante | gnome-session --version |
| 02:09.48 | AAC | yep gnome 3 |
| 02:09.50 | AAC | i think |
| 02:09.51 | AAC | not sure |
| 02:09.53 | mutante | i find it funny that none of this works for me either :p |
| 02:10.03 | AAC | ehehhe |
| 02:10.03 | AAC | :) |
| 02:10.05 | mutante | but people say it does |
| 02:10.48 | mutante | well, wmctrl -m works for me. it's just surprising that you get "GNOME Shell" as the name of the WM |
| 02:10.56 | AAC | gnome-session 3.14.0 |
| 02:11.09 | AAC | yeah its pretty wierd |
| 02:11.22 | mutante | AAC: ok, solved. from that you get https://packages.debian.org/jessie/gnome-session |
| 02:11.30 | mutante | it's GNOME 3 |
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| 02:11.50 | AAC | good...thanks! :) |
| 02:12.08 | AAC | ill just upgrade to stretch then |
| 02:12.10 | AAC | :) |
| 02:12.11 | AAC | hold on |
| 02:12.12 | mutante | maybe i expected this package to be called "Mutter" or Wikipedia is wrong or they changed wm or it is Mutter inside that |
| 02:12.20 | mutante | good idea! |
| 02:13.17 | AAC | ok ... :thanks man |
| 02:13.28 | mutante | AAC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutter_(software)#Window_management |
| 02:13.38 | mutante | that's the _actual_ answer to which "wm" it is |
| 02:13.51 | mutante | wm vs de |
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| 02:16.44 | usser | !fixgrub |
| 02:16.45 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
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| 02:31.25 | usser | .. |
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| 02:42.48 | AAC | ok thks ppl |
| 02:42.49 | AAC | later |
| 02:42.54 | dvs | o/ |
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| 04:21.56 | ayew | Hi. I'm trying to boot to kde plasma/sddm (which I installed using tasksel). Sddm seems to start fine at boot according to sddm.service, but all thats coming up on screen is a terminal interface. |
| 04:27.02 | ayew | hmm, seems like Xorg/X inst starting; ps aux | grep X shows nothing |
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| 04:28.30 | ayew | okay, its a driver issue: Failed to initialize the NVIDIA kernel module in Xorg log. Got absolutely no clue how to try and fix this though. |
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| 05:14.41 | usser | so a windows update left my grub wiped out, and i cannot mount any of my drives |
| 05:14.45 | usser | halp |
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| 05:16.57 | diogenes_ | !grub rescue |
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| 05:17.39 | usser | !grubrescue |
| 05:17.42 | usser | !grub rescue |
| 05:17.53 | usser | !grubfix ..that? |
| 05:17.57 | diogenes_ | ech, basically you have to boot a live system and chroot. |
| 05:18.10 | usser | yup, so first step is to mount the filesystem |
| 05:18.20 | diogenes_ | yes |
| 05:18.23 | usser | i cannot seem to find my linux partition |
| 05:19.17 | usser | or .. i read some docs saying it should be a non-ntfs drive.. make ssense but i'm only seeing ntfs drives and a linux swap |
| 05:19.36 | usser | unless im reading fdisk -l incorrectly |
| 05:19.39 | diogenes_ | usser, from windows it's important to reboot, not shutdown. |
| 05:20.31 | usser | im more concerned about my debian partition tbh |
| 05:20.53 | usser | either way, i boot to grub rescue > |
| 05:21.06 | diogenes_ | usser, lsblk |
| 05:21.52 | usser | seems to be similar information as fdisk -l |
| 05:22.07 | usser | wait |
| 05:22.29 | usser | yea |
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| 05:23.04 | diogenes_ | usser, maybe ms decided you no longer need it so they wiped if off. |
| 05:23.21 | usser | this just happened a couple days ago |
| 05:23.44 | usser | so i assume its part of a recent update |
| 05:24.05 | usser | i assume more folks would be reporting on this |
| 05:24.06 | usser | ? |
| 05:26.02 | diogenes_ | that's why i said, ms decides for you what you must and must not run on your PC and yes, you're not the first with this issue. |
| 05:26.37 | annadane | !fixmbr |
| 05:26.37 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 05:26.41 | annadane | is that what you wanted? |
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| 05:27.48 | diogenes_ | yeah but he doesn't see linux partition at all. |
| 05:28.00 | usser | annadane: |
| 05:28.01 | usser | yeah |
| 05:28.06 | usser | what diogenes_ said |
| 05:29.19 | usser | ive got so many partitions on this box i dont recall which was the linux partition |
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| 05:32.32 | usser | alright so after some reading it sounds like common practice for windows 10 updates complely obliterate a linux partition |
| 05:33.07 | usser | gee, thank m$ |
| 05:33.13 | zamnedix | "we <3 linux" - microsoft at every tech conference for the past decade |
| 05:33.38 | usser | "<3" is a relative term i suppose |
| 05:34.03 | zamnedix | usser: easiest way to confirm is to boot a live disc and do the first step dpkg gave you (mount /dev/partition /target) and look inside for each partition |
| 05:34.15 | usser | thats where im at |
| 05:34.17 | zamnedix | mount, ls, unmount, repeat until you find the kernel |
| 05:34.17 | usser | booted in to live cd |
| 05:34.20 | usser | cannot mount any |
| 05:34.26 | zamnedix | yeah sounds like its gone then :( |
| 05:34.36 | usser | fack |
| 05:34.42 | usser | i guess its not that bad |
| 05:34.54 | usser | im more annoyed about the nvidia driver f**kery |
| 05:35.12 | diogenes_ | usser, lsblk -o name,mountpoint,fstype do you see ext4? |
| 05:35.25 | zamnedix | if you know where it was and the free space is still there, windows might not have destroyed the data...you could maybe recreate the partition |
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| 05:37.05 | usser | no dice |
| 05:37.12 | usser | but thanks |
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| 05:38.48 | usser | so ..other than the obvious.. how do i prevent this from happening in the future |
| 05:39.42 | zamnedix | it doesnt sound like you can |
| 05:39.49 | zamnedix | you dont have a lot of control over what a windows update does to your machine |
| 05:40.13 | usser | backing up the parititon to another machine or something |
| 05:40.51 | zamnedix | you could create a second efi system partition on a usb drive for just linux but not all systems support that |
| 05:41.42 | usser | woah |
| 05:42.23 | diogenes_ | usser, best would be to keep them on separate drives. |
| 05:42.41 | usser | interesting, that was goign to be my next question |
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| 05:54.30 | usser | zamnedix: i see a bunch of free space may be the lost partition |
| 05:54.36 | usser | whats this about recreating the parition |
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| 05:56.28 | zamnedix | usser: so in theory you could recreate the partition with something like parted, cfdisk, or fdisk, then mount it and do the fixgrub steps |
| 05:56.46 | zamnedix | but you would need to specify the exact start and end points, which are probably not the exact amount of space remaining |
| 05:56.58 | zamnedix | it would probably take some trial and error |
| 05:57.17 | zamnedix | and be sure not to do any formatting with mkfs, youre just trying to modify the partition table, not the partition itself |
| 05:57.28 | usser | hm |
| 05:57.50 | zamnedix | if theres no critical data on there youre really probably better off reinstalling, youd be almost done by now |
| 05:58.09 | zamnedix | you could just run into the problem again though in the future |
| 05:58.15 | usser | yeah |
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| 05:58.25 | usser | i think i should start fresh and throw each os on its own drive |
| 05:58.33 | zamnedix | thats a good plan |
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| 06:39.02 | Repox | Hello. I'm currently trying to upgrade my wheezy to jessie and I'm a bit stuck on this message: https://hastebin.com/ahesiliqoq.log - the end purpose is to upgrade the distribution to enable me o install newer PHP versions, so I basically don't care about the php5 packages. How can I move on with my distribution upgrade? |
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| 06:47.59 | usser | Repox: how much of paint is it to install php5-common? |
| 06:48.12 | usser | -t |
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| 06:49.35 | Repox | Probably no pain at all, I just wasn't aware that would be enough to overcome; I'd imagine the apt-get update and upgrade would have followed through with that, since it was initially installed, though. I'll try and install php5-common. |
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| 08:07.18 | Muimi | quick question please |
| 08:07.24 | Muimi | i want to install debian with mate de |
| 08:07.27 | Muimi | https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst |
| 08:07.37 | Muimi | if I download the netinst will it give me a DE choice? |
| 08:08.08 | Muimi | another question is: can I run debian without a DE and just use like Firefox and LibreOffice from the commandline? |
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| 08:14.18 | ksk | Muimi: you need X for that, but you can do without an DE. |
| 08:14.28 | ksk | there are also very minimal desktops around, I like fluxbox ;) |
| 08:14.28 | ratrace | Muimi: the netinst installer will give you a choice of DE, yes. you can run xorg without a DE, but at least some WM is highly recommended. |
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| 08:14.57 | ksk | s/desktop/WMs |
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| 08:16.44 | Muimi | what's a wm |
| 08:17.14 | Muimi | your momma's a wm (woman) hehehehehee |
| 08:17.43 | ratrace | it's a Window Manager. Every DE has one, but a WM can be standalone without all the bells and whistles of a DE |
| 08:18.20 | ksk | A thingy that lets you move windows around, I think. In contrast to "having Icons like the windows" which is more a DE thing. |
| 08:19.23 | diogenes_ | ratrace, what DE do you use? |
| 08:19.27 | ratrace | a WM draws and manages windows. a DE is an integrated solution of a WM and various software components and suites like a file manager, etc... |
| 08:19.28 | ksk | Muimi: see https://wiki.debian.org/DesktopEnvironment for an overview of all the components, and some useful recommendations |
| 08:19.32 | ratrace | diogenes_: none, I use i3-wm |
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| 08:21.09 | diogenes_ | ratrace, nice minimalistic but you have to remember a lot of shortcuts. |
| 08:21.41 | ratrace | well that's not difficult |
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| 08:34.27 | darsie | My system is sluggish. Switching windows takes seconds. kworker/0:1-kacpi_notify has 50+% CPU. What's going on? |
| 08:34.42 | darsie | Swap is unused. |
| 08:35.10 | darsie | The mouse pointer is sluggish, too. |
| 08:35.17 | diogenes_ | darsie, gnome? |
| 08:35.22 | darsie | xkcd |
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| 08:35.47 | diogenes_ | !xkcd |
| 08:35.47 | dpkg | hmm... xkcd is at http://www.xkcd.com |
| 08:35.48 | darsie | i7 3770, 16 GB RAM |
| 08:36.45 | diogenes_ | xkcd says: A webcomic of romance, |
| 08:36.45 | diogenes_ | sarcasm, math, and language. |
| 08:37.02 | darsie | umm |
| 08:37.05 | darsie | xfce :) |
| 08:37.17 | darsie | lol |
| 08:37.36 | diogenes_ | and is it Buster? |
| 08:37.39 | darsie | yes |
| 08:37.59 | darsie | 10.5 |
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| 08:38.38 | darsie | Fresh boot this morning. Resume from hibernate failed again. |
| 08:39.19 | diogenes_ | check if settings > window manager tweaks > compositor is enabled. |
| 08:39.56 | darsie | it is |
| 08:40.57 | diogenes_ | check sudo iotop |
| 08:41.26 | diogenes_ | also| ps aux | grep track |
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| 08:41.32 | darsie | gotta install iotop ... |
| 08:41.56 | darsie | no track |
| 08:43.40 | darsie | iotop doesn't look exciting. |
| 08:46.04 | diogenes_ | hmm i suspect the failed hibernation is to blame and a reboot should fix it. |
| 08:46.39 | darsie | Well, it did a full boot. I had to log into my user account. |
| 08:46.51 | darsie | I can try rebooting. |
| 08:46.59 | darsie | bbl |
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| 08:55.10 | darsie | ok, let's see if that helped. |
| 08:56.01 | ratrace | darsie: kacpi_notify would suggest an irq storm perhaps, which if it happened all of a sudden may indicate a hardware issue |
| 08:56.55 | darsie | kacpi_notify being a process active in iotop? |
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| 08:57.37 | ratrace | yes, the one you mentioned with "kworker/0:1-kacpi_notify has 50+% CPU" |
| 08:57.45 | darsie | ah |
| 08:58.10 | darsie | That's still/again happening. |
| 08:58.23 | ratrace | and it's maybe not IO but something else. you could monitor /proc/irqstats for a while, see which IRQs get large(r) increase rates |
| 08:58.30 | darsie | Haven't noticed that before. |
| 08:59.06 | ratrace | well the irqstats might give you clues which part of HW is complaining |
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| 08:59.58 | darsie | /proc/irqstats doesn't exist |
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| 09:00.52 | ratrace | darsie: eh, sorry, /proc/interrupts |
| 09:01.15 | ratrace | I use munin's irqstats plugin for monitoring those so the name stuck |
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| 09:02.18 | darsie | /proc/interrupts: https://paste.debian.net/1159335/ |
| 09:02.55 | darsie | System is responsive now. |
| 09:03.04 | ratrace | darsie: well that doesn't mean much, the idea is to observe the change over time |
| 09:03.09 | darsie | ic |
| 09:03.28 | darsie | I'll do that if it happens again. |
| 09:03.29 | darsie | thx |
| 09:03.49 | darsie | OTOH, kworker/0:1-kacpi_notify has 50+% CPU is odd. |
| 09:03.51 | darsie | I guess |
| 09:04.02 | ratrace | darsie: but uh, line 6 shows a significantly larger number than others, and this being right after boot, might be indicative of something |
| 09:04.51 | ratrace | and yes, as you can see, that's the acpi thingy |
| 09:05.04 | darsie | mhm |
| 09:05.48 | ratrace | so yeah, interrupt storm. now to track that down, anything peculiar in dmesg? journalctl -b -p err ? |
| 09:05.49 | darsie | I haven't changed my system. Should I replug PCI and RAM? |
| 09:06.15 | darsie | Like, remove and put back cards and RAM? |
| 09:07.16 | ratrace | that's unlikely to be the cause of this. bad connections that need reseating would explicitely fail that specific hardware, and if that were RAM, you'd probably have hard crashes, machine exeptions, kernel panics. but it doesn't hurt, I suppose, to reseat stuff. |
| 09:07.32 | darsie | https://paste.debian.net/1159336/ |
| 09:07.33 | ratrace | better see in the logs if anything is whining loudly. |
| 09:08.03 | darsie | Oh, and when resuming from hibernation I always get something like 'CPU stall detected'. |
| 09:08.19 | darsie | And it takes minutes for the hibernation resume to happen. |
| 09:08.43 | darsie | I can take a screenshot from that. I already have one, would have to find it. |
| 09:08.50 | darsie | Like, wiht a camera. |
| 09:09.34 | ratrace | is this native Debian kernel? you didn't tweak it, instal xanmod, or stuff like that, fiddle with RT? |
| 09:10.09 | darsie | stock debian kernel |
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| 09:10.55 | darsie | hmm, gthumb doesn't show me the content of picture directories ... |
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| 09:11.25 | ratrace | well, there's a shadow on the radar here, acpi irqstorms, rcu stalls, but nothing specific from that journal paste. perhaps reseat ram and pci things, just in case, and then try running memtest. memtest is run on boot and best be left alone for several hours |
| 09:11.57 | darsie | ok |
| 09:11.59 | ratrace | (you select memtest from the grub menu) |
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| 09:12.10 | darsie | mhm |
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| 09:13.03 | darsie | looks like one directory content upset gthumb. Skipping that helped. |
| 09:13.13 | darsie | nah, again ... |
| 09:13.25 | darsie | reseating stuff ... |
| 09:13.31 | ratrace | darsie: wait |
| 09:13.33 | darsie | ok\ |
| 09:13.38 | ratrace | your system is unresponsive now? |
| 09:13.40 | darsie | -\ |
| 09:13.41 | darsie | no |
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| 09:13.51 | ratrace | ah, k |
| 09:14.01 | darsie | just gthumb not doing. |
| 09:14.06 | ratrace | I wanted to suggest you post a fresh /proc/interrupts, so we can see the diff in numbers |
| 09:14.12 | darsie | mhm |
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| 09:14.33 | darsie | reseating stuff ... |
| 09:14.56 | ratrace | darsie: also SATA cables |
| 09:15.02 | darsie | CPU, too? |
| 09:15.06 | darsie | I have thermal paste. |
| 09:15.31 | ratrace | I doubt there's need for that. though personally I replace thermal paste and clear it all out once a year |
| 09:15.41 | darsie | ok, doing that, too. |
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| 09:15.58 | ratrace | wish I had submersive cooling CPU case. starting price $2000+ uhhh yeah, no kthnxbai. |
| 09:16.05 | Muimi | you guys help me fix my problems in a minute okay? |
| 09:16.07 | darsie | hehe |
| 09:16.32 | ratrace | Muimi: stat your question, someone might help |
| 09:16.35 | ratrace | *state |
| 09:16.37 | Muimi | is fluxbox good? |
| 09:16.48 | Muimi | ratrace just make one |
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| 09:17.45 | ratrace | Muimi: problem with FOSS choice and asking if X is good, is that it's mostly subjective thing, bugs notwithstanding. |
| 09:18.05 | ratrace | eg, I use i3-wm and I find it awesome, and most of linux users wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole. |
| 09:18.22 | ratrace | I, on the other hand, wouldn't touch most of linux users' choice: gnome, with a 10ft pole. |
| 09:18.52 | ratrace | some thing i3-wm is not awesome, so they install awesome and thing awesome is awesome. |
| 09:18.55 | ratrace | *think |
| 09:19.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1101] by debhelper |
| 09:19.11 | Muimi | what part of my pc is broken |
| 09:19.31 | Muimi | i can boot to grub, i can boot to the livecd install screen (first screen) I can boot into bios.... |
| 09:19.34 | Muimi | i can stay in these menus |
| 09:19.56 | ratrace | what are you talking about now |
| 09:19.56 | Muimi | when I try to enter into Ubuntu or "Graphical Installer" or "Install" on the debian install media, the pc turns off immediately |
| 09:20.53 | Muimi | ram? |
| 09:21.23 | ratrace | could be anything.... your pc turns off? like literally off? cpu enters halt state, power is cut? |
| 09:21.36 | Muimi | powero cut |
| 09:21.37 | ratrace | line, not just reboot? |
| 09:21.41 | ratrace | *like |
| 09:21.50 | Muimi | not a reboot |
| 09:21.54 | Muimi | turns off |
| 09:21.59 | ratrace | well that's a weird one. |
| 09:22.12 | Muimi | it's maybe 2006 or 2008 pc |
| 09:22.18 | ratrace | probably BIOS/EFI firware buggy or something like that. checked if your mobo has updates? |
| 09:22.39 | Muimi | i'm sure it does |
| 09:22.51 | Muimi | but i think it's hardware the thing was sitting around forever i already replaced the bios battery |
| 09:22.58 | ratrace | Muimi: is it perchance 32-bit and you're trying 64-bit installation media? though I doubt that'd turn it _off_ |
| 09:23.16 | Muimi | yeah that's possibl |
| 09:23.39 | Muimi | i consulted the manual and it said it can do 64 bit but the media that was intalled by default was 32 it |
| 09:24.13 | ratrace | it was not uncommon to install 32-bit OS on a 64-bit capable CPU back in that day. |
| 09:24.30 | Muimi | yeah because it saved like 5 dollars |
| 09:24.44 | ratrace | infact, some do it even today..... *cough* jellyyy *cough* |
| 09:25.00 | Muimi | well should i just use a 32-bit anyway? |
| 09:25.29 | ratrace | Muimi: no but because RAM was still not in abundance, there was not much use case for 64-bits, and 64-bit consumes more RAM due to fatter pointers. |
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| 09:27.04 | ratrace | Muimi: depends. it's best to run 64-bit kernel because the 32-bit one is kinda neglected these days, and lacks a number of security mitigations. but as I said, some choose 32-bit on 64-bit CPU due to memory constraints. |
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| 09:30.28 | Muimi | I put in 8 gigs of ram.... the chips are a bit older |
| 09:30.39 | Muimi | so i thought maybe if the ram chips (one of them or both are bad) it would cause this problem |
| 09:30.55 | Muimi | on the other hand, i wonder why it doesn't shut down in the installer menuu |
| 09:31.02 | Muimi | not until I click "install" |
| 09:31.16 | Muimi | maybe I need to update the bios so that it knows it can use 64-bit os's |
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| 09:31.38 | hegemoOn | hello there, |
| 09:31.56 | hegemoOn | i got a crontab which apt update/upgrade |
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| 09:32.15 | hegemoOn | which got stuck on hundres of servers because of package grub-pc |
| 09:32.26 | shtrb | ,v iconv |
| 09:32.28 | judd | No package named 'iconv' was found in amd64. |
| 09:32.34 | hegemoOn | seems it asks for which device to install |
| 09:32.46 | hegemoOn | i just killed all dpkg process on servers |
| 09:32.51 | shtrb | what package give us iconv |
| 09:33.02 | Muimi | what the hell i might as well try it |
| 09:33.04 | hegemoOn | but now i cannot do anymore and update |
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| 09:33.39 | hegemoOn | shtrb:libc6 |
| 09:34.08 | hegemoOn | is there a way to clean this dirty state, beside running dpkg reconfigure -a ? |
| 09:34.09 | ratrace | hegemoOn: you ran an update on hundreds of servers without testing the update procedure first? o.O |
| 09:34.11 | hegemoOn | as suggested |
| 09:34.21 | shtrb | facepalm , thanks hegemoOn |
| 09:34.46 | hegemoOn | ratrace: yes. but understand im new joiner in this company, and i just discovered this shitpot :) |
| 09:35.01 | hegemoOn | receiving hundreds of warning stuck process email |
| 09:35.03 | hegemoOn | ... |
| 09:35.25 | hegemoOn | they just hired a real sysadm (aka me) |
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| 09:35.53 | hegemoOn | but i just suffer from a setup i didnt implemented :) |
| 09:35.57 | ratrace | hegemoOn: okay, for starters, all package related automation should be run with DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive environment variable set |
| 09:36.48 | ratrace | second, by all means, use automation software like ansible or SaltStack, or some other, their package management functions already include non-interactive functionality |
| 09:37.05 | hegemoOn | i was hired for ansible |
| 09:37.18 | hegemoOn | im starting to move tons of scripts to ansible |
| 09:37.26 | hegemoOn | but one step a day :) |
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| 09:39.53 | ratrace | as for this particular pickle, if the servers are sitting on the grub device selection menu on the console, not much you can do but kill the processes and re-run installation or upgrade with that DEBIAN_FRONTEND env, or even better, do it through ansible |
| 09:40.57 | ratrace | maybe you can force a distributed DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive apt-get install -f I'm not sure a this point without testing it first on one server or in a test environment where you replicate the failure |
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| 09:41.28 | hegemoOn | yes of course |
| 09:42.42 | hegemoOn | dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run dpkg --configure -a to correct the problem |
| 09:42.42 | dpkg | You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, hegemoOn |
| 09:43.08 | ratrace | in case of grub, running noninteractive installation, you can manually re-run grub-install /dev/... to cover all the disks that need it |
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| 09:44.54 | Muimi | superfrustrating guys |
| 09:45.07 | Muimi | the debian installer is trying to scrub my drive even though i never saw any option to skip this step |
| 09:45.08 | ratrace | hegemoOn: iirc you can run dpkg --configure -a with DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive env |
| 09:45.21 | Muimi | destroying all of the metadata it's like 1/10th ffinished and i can't cancel it |
| 09:45.33 | Muimi | rips hair out can i turn this off? lol |
| 09:45.51 | ratrace | Muimi: what do you mean? the installer won't do anything until you select partitioning layout and confirm it in the next step |
| 09:46.20 | Muimi | yeah i did that, but it decided to overwrite my blank OS with random files |
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| 09:46.29 | Muimi | afaik i didn't ask it to do that |
| 09:46.34 | Muimi | can i turn the pc off? |
| 09:46.43 | ratrace | I'm pretty sure it did what it was told to do, so the question is what did you select... auto, guided or manual partitioning? |
| 09:47.02 | ratrace | sure, you can turn it off, or reboot, and restart the installation. |
| 09:49.13 | Muimi | who cares if it did what i told it do to it's burning hot |
| 09:49.34 | Muimi | ok ok ko kokok ty |
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| 09:53.19 | Muimi | okay i'm back at partition selection |
| 09:53.29 | Muimi | can i do guided-user entire disk and set up encrypted lvm without the overwrite? |
| 09:53.51 | ratrace | Muimi: what do you mean without the overwrite? |
| 09:53.55 | Muimi | uhg |
| 09:54.10 | Muimi | the permanent file deletion thing |
| 09:54.25 | ratrace | like in dual-boot settings? |
| 09:54.25 | Muimi | i don't know what it's called |
| 09:54.31 | Muimi | no |
| 09:54.46 | Muimi | the installer was writing random data to the drive |
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| 09:55.29 | ratrace | Muimi: oh you're talking about the WIPING of the disk in case of encrypted installations? Yeah, you can skip that step. |
| 09:56.13 | Muimi | https://cn.bing.com/search?q=debian+installer+writes+random+data&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IESR4A |
| 09:56.24 | Muimi | no i can't because i don't know how |
| 09:56.34 | Muimi | if i don't encrypt my drive will it be skipped? |
| 09:56.47 | Muimi | or acan i encrypt my drive without doing the random overwrites? |
| 09:56.56 | ratrace | there should be a checkbox in the same window where you specify the encryption passphrase |
| 09:57.17 | ratrace | yes, you can choose encrypted installation without it WIPING the entire disk first. there's a checkbox iirc |
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| 09:58.21 | Muimi | as per this installer there is not a box telling it not wo wipe the drive |
| 09:58.26 | Muimi | there is no indication that the drive will be wiped |
| 09:58.34 | Muimi | if i click continue it will begin wiping the drive |
| 09:58.37 | ratrace | yes there is, let me find screenshots of the installer |
| 10:00.07 | ratrace | Muimi: https://youtu.be/etzJAG_H5F8?t=564 okay, it's not a checkbox, it's a full dialog |
| 10:00.30 | ratrace | I forgot bits of it, haven't used the installer in a while but yeah, certainly it has the option to skip wiping the disk |
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| 10:01.33 | ratrace | and as you can see, the next dialog shows progress and even has a cancel button.... you can't really miss that. |
| 10:01.59 | Muimi | the cancel button doesn't work |
| 10:02.19 | Muimi | i can't access youtube, but i can only assume that you're looking at an older installer or a newer one |
| 10:02.31 | Muimi | instead of making that presumption |
| 10:02.45 | Muimi | are you reading the screen that says "Partition Disks" or is there an additional screen after that? |
| 10:03.42 | ratrace | Muimi: it should be part of the partitioning process, after you select encryption. |
| 10:03.58 | Muimi | so if i deselect encrypt i can encrypt later instead and not wipe |
| 10:04.39 | Muimi | okay i hit cancel early and it succeeded to cancel |
| 10:04.43 | ratrace | Muimi: no, you can't encrypt partitions AFTER installation, at least not for LUKS and full disk encryption schemes, you'll have to use per-directory encryption like encryptfs |
| 10:05.14 | ratrace | but the installer WILL give you a choice to NOT start the disk wipe |
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| 10:05.43 | Muimi | i really don't see that option. cancel worked, gldaly, so i don't have to haha |
| 10:06.08 | Muimi | i'm so excited. i've wanted to have a dedicated debin box forever |
| 10:06.45 | ratrace | the dialog box that offers you choice states: "The data on SCSI ... partition .... will be overwritten with random data. And you have Yes and No choices, as well as Go Back |
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| 10:08.17 | devon | Can a MacBookAir boot Debian from an SD Card? |
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| 10:09.02 | hegemoOn | which cron daemon is running by default on buster ? |
| 10:09.21 | hegemoOn | a specific systemd one or a third part ? |
| 10:09.28 | hegemoOn | like vixie or chrony ? |
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| 10:10.34 | hegemoOn | man cron report vixie. |
| 10:10.38 | hegemoOn | so i guess it is |
| 10:10.42 | ratrace | yea it's vixie |
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| 10:17.49 | ratrace | Muimi: I ran the installer in a VM now. you are correct, the guided encrypted LVM does not ask you if you want to wipe or not, it just proceeds and there's the cancel option only. it does ask you for manual partitioning, though. |
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| 10:22.18 | jmd | xdpyinfo is lying about the pixels per inch. Does anyone know how I can get a correct answer? |
| 10:24.52 | Muimi | on the other pc the bios update didn't fix it so now i'll try a 32-bit os |
| 10:25.13 | Muimi | i386 right? |
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| 10:28.58 | darsie | Ok, after reseating and cleaning most everything the kworker is gone from the top and I also see no more cpu stalls during resume from hibernation. |
| 10:29.22 | darsie | Not sure if I want this to be causal or coincidental. |
| 10:30.52 | themill | jmd: xrandr seems to get the dimensions correct (xdpyinfo does not). I recall there is a tool but not what it is... |
| 10:31.09 | darsie | acpi interrupts are down to 1 for cpu 0 and 1, each. |
| 10:31.37 | Muimi | on the system wehre i installed debian, it's booting to ubuntu on the other drive and saying "not a recognized system disk" on the other. |
| 10:32.20 | bauen1 | i'm pretty sure that an error in blk-availability.service (https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=966816) prevented my server from booting, the bug is currently labeled as "important", but wouldn't that justify at least "serious", perhaps even "critical" ? |
| 10:32.21 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/966816 in lvm2 (open): «/lib/systemd/system/blk-availability.service:10: Neither a valid executable name nor an absolute path: ${exec_prefix}/bin/true»; severity: important; opened: 2020-08-02; last modified: 2020-08-06. |
| 10:32.56 | jmd | themill: ok thanks. |
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| 10:33.10 | Muimi | just an update it does seem to restart with some lag between off and on.... |
| 10:33.15 | Muimi | it doesn't just sttay tuerned off |
| 10:33.26 | bauen1 | or at least serious to prevent the version that introduced the bug from migrating from unstable to testing ? |
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| 10:42.26 | Muimi | when i take 4gb of ram out of this pc, it boots into the 64-bit OS |
| 10:43.07 | Muimi | this is true with either of the two ram chips (e.g., both chips are healthy) |
| 10:43.16 | Muimi | but when I put in 8gb of ram, the computer turns itself off on bootup |
| 10:43.27 | Muimi | i'm going to repost at ##hardware |
| 10:45.08 | ratrace | Muimi: it's possible your motherboard doesn't support more than, say, 4GB of RAM. Or perhaps chips are incompatible? Different clocks or types? |
| 10:46.08 | darsie | ratrace: My system is good, atm. See above. |
| 10:46.10 | darsie | thx |
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| 10:49.33 | ratrace | !next |
| 10:49.33 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 10:49.43 | darsie | :) |
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| 10:51.08 | Mrbuck | I am using debian, My screen turned black and I lost data in a file I opened. After restart desktop runing asusual, is it something to worry? |
| 10:52.28 | Mrbuck | I also find these logs TRACE[xfsm-manager.c:1295] xfsm_manager_save_yourself_done(): entering |
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| 11:01.35 | ratrace | Mrbuck: that log entry doesn't mean much. Use journalctl -b -p err to list logs at severity "error" or greater, although not all errors (*cough* gnome *cough*) are listed at that level, so you might wanna check `-p warning` too. what you previously described IS something to worry about. sudden data loss and screens going black are indicative of hardware issues, so there may be further data loss. |
| 11:01.42 | ratrace | ensure proper backups. |
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| 11:02.17 | Mrbuck | ratrace: it got nothing to worry about me being hacked or security related issues? |
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| 11:02.54 | ratrace | Mrbuck: impossible to tell from those symptoms, but it probably isn't related to anything like that |
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| 11:04.24 | Mrbuck | ratrace: I am using xfce |
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| 11:12.50 | Mrbuck | ratrace: ###!!! [Child][MessageChannel] Error: (msgtype=0x53000D,name=PHttpChannel::Msg_RemoveCorsPreflightCacheEntry) Closed channel: cannot send/recv any idea what this error might be? On search I find jenkin related issues but I never installed jenkins on my machine |
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| 11:16.03 | ratrace | Mrbuck: I don't know. quick googling suggests it might be Firefox |
| 11:17.08 | Mrbuck | ratrace: My search results very different I will search more |
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| 11:17.18 | Mrbuck | I will ignore them if they arnot security related |
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| 11:21.45 | ratrace | Mrbuck: if you're THAT worried about security issues, use proper tools for audit and intrusion detection |
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| 11:35.06 | Mrbuck | ratrace: Ok thank you, I will learn about them later. As you mentioned above it should be a hardware issue as it is very old |
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| 11:48.41 | Slashman | hello, is there a way to know which file is affected by a bad hard drive sector? I'm seeing the error with dmesg "print_req_error: I/O error, dev vdc, sector 1028568104", The only file system on vdc is xfs, but I don't know how to translate the physical block to xfs and how to proceed after that |
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| 11:51.36 | rabbitear_g | defcon safe mode |
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| 12:52.05 | f8e4 | how to do this on windows: cat /dev/zero > foo.txt ? |
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| 12:52.24 | greycat | ... seriously? |
| 12:52.52 | f8e4 | asked on windows, but they dont understand Q |
| 12:53.27 | greycat | Then tell them what you are trying to do ("fill the hard disk with a single gigantic file contaning only NUL bytes"). They will rightfully tell you that you're a freaking lunatic. |
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| 12:53.44 | f8e4 | i love it, but no answer |
| 12:54.00 | greycat | *plonk* (again) |
| 12:54.16 | greycat | This guy's getting damned close to either a permanent /ignore or a ban. |
| 12:55.14 | EdePopede | heh. if i get their insane device file design right, the file should exist EVERYWHERE. if creating ZERO.txt fails, cat ZERO > foo.txt should work in no matter what folder, or not :D |
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| 12:59.40 | devon | MacBookAir7,2 Alt-Boot fails to see debian SD Card, any tips? |
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| 13:08.15 | ws2k3 | i would like to execute shell command. how do ineed to call that exaclt? /bin/sh commandhere? |
| 13:08.32 | ws2k3 | when i just run my command it works. but when i do /bin/sh mycommand it does not |
| 13:08.58 | greycat | So do the thing that works. |
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| 13:09.36 | ws2k3 | greycat: but that only works when im logged in. im trying to let php execute this. thats why i need the /bin/sh |
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| 13:09.58 | greycat | Then ask ##php how to run external commands from PHP. |
| 13:10.07 | greycat | It probably involves "system". |
| 13:11.32 | Fox | ws2k3: using shell_exec() ? |
| 13:12.15 | ws2k3 | maby php was a bad example. how if i would like to configure a cron with the full path? then i also need the /bin/sh |
| 13:12.47 | abff | ws2k3: are you using the full path to your program? |
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| 13:13.42 | ws2k3 | abff: no cause i dont know how to |
| 13:14.03 | ws2k3 | echo test work. but i would like to run /bin/sh echo test |
| 13:14.12 | abff | whua |
| 13:14.59 | bauen1 | devon: i have a macbook air 6,2 and it sees the sd card just fine, are you trying to boot from the sd card / install debian from it ? |
| 13:15.03 | ratrace | ws2k3: SHELL=/bin/sh \n * * * * * user echo test |
| 13:15.43 | ratrace | (or use a user crontab, without that "user" in it, which'd be the actual username) |
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| 13:16.27 | greycat | ws2k3: Do the thing that works instead of making up some random stupid thing that does not work. Or tell us WHY you think you need to modify the working command. |
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| 13:16.53 | ws2k3 | greycat: im trying to use a prestop ook in kubernetes. to run a command in my container |
| 13:17.06 | ws2k3 | and im getting a command not found currently cause /bin/sh is not specified |
| 13:17.07 | greycat | So "php" was a complete lie? |
| 13:17.26 | ws2k3 | greycat: yes |
| 13:17.33 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:17.47 | greycat | Oops. That was a typo. But yeah, you are now on permanent ignore. |
| 13:17.57 | ws2k3 | lol.. |
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| 13:18.37 | FuzzyByte | Imagine /ignore ing someone for lying about their purposes. |
| 13:18.46 | abff | why do you need /bin/sh anyway |
| 13:18.50 | jmd | It seems that buster's install disks don't work with the keyboard of most laptops. |
| 13:18.55 | greycat | Not just once. This guy has been on temporary ignore MANY times. |
| 13:18.56 | abff | and why aren't you asking the kubernetes people |
| 13:19.00 | jmd | One has to plug in an external keyboard. |
| 13:19.19 | ws2k3 | greycat: i thought it was a good similar example... |
| 13:19.27 | FuzzyByte | jmd: worked for me. |
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| 13:20.36 | abff | ws2k3: just ask what you want to ask don't make it harder for people to help you |
| 13:20.38 | hegemoOn | is it possible to forbid any upgrade of a package ? |
| 13:20.43 | abff | I highly suggest you ask in a kubernetes channel |
| 13:20.46 | greycat | !hold |
| 13:20.46 | dpkg | hold is a status flag that tells the package manager to not automatically upgrade a package. To hold a package 'echo $package hold|dpkg --set-selections' or 'aptitude hold $package'. Note that prior to <stretch> "aptitude hold" is ignored by other package managers and aptitude won't necessarily use holds set with dpkg; see Debian bug #137771. See also <hold list>, <unhold>. |
| 13:20.55 | ws2k3 | greycat: ...hmm i cant recall recall you ever had an issue with me or you stating you put me on temp ignore? |
| 13:21.44 | hegemoOn | thanks greycat |
| 13:21.56 | hegemoOn | i remember you from #bash :) |
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| 13:24.06 | hegemoOn | what about 01autoremove adding package into Never-MarkAuto-Section ? |
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| 13:24.30 | greycat | That's for controlling autoremove, not for preventing upgrades. |
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| 13:26.07 | mason | Is there canonical documentation for how to build the media Debian ships - the various installer images, live media, firmware media, etc? |
| 13:27.00 | jmd | mason: The media have to be produced in a factory. |
| 13:27.13 | mason | That's fine - I have a factory! |
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| 13:29.08 | mason | Oh, hm. https://packages.debian.org/buster/debian-cd maybe, if that does the live images too. |
| 13:29.47 | greycat | OFTC has channels for debian-installer and debian-live |
| 13:29.50 | greycat | !d-i |
| 13:29.51 | dpkg | Information about the development of the debian-installer is at the developers page http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ . If you want to make custom install CDs, start with d-i. IRC: #debian-boot on irc.oftc.net. See also <errata>, <g-i>. |
| 13:30.10 | hegemoOn | of FAI :) |
| 13:30.10 | mason | greycat: Ah, cool. Thank you. |
| 13:30.13 | greycat | so, #debian-boot and #debian-live channels |
| 13:30.51 | hegemoOn | mason: did you have a look to FAI ? |
| 13:31.55 | mason | hegemoOn: I looked it ages ago and it didn't grab me at the time. I can look again. My goal here is to get a custom set of packages (some local) cooked into a live ISO, so I want to learn how they're built and give it a try. |
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| 14:00.06 | hegemoOn | i see |
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| 14:03.49 | darsie | Which package do I need for the dvorak keymap for 'loadkeys dvorak'? |
| 14:04.59 | darsie | libaspell15:amd64: /usr/lib/aspell/dvorak.kbd? |
| 14:05.48 | greycat | I really doubt libaspell* is related to loadkeys. |
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| 14:06.57 | darsie | nope |
| 14:07.07 | darsie | That wasn't it. |
| 14:07.16 | darsie | or de Keymap for that matter. |
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| 14:15.00 | mason | Oh, and: https://packages.debian.org/buster/live-build |
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| 14:16.43 | darsie | console-data didn't work. Couldn't install console-common along with it due to dependency issues. |
| 14:17.21 | greycat | !keymap |
| 14:17.21 | dpkg | Run "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" to change both your default console and X keymap; the setxkbmap utility can be used to adjust keymap settings during X operation. For setting up X keymaps, see xkeycaps, xev and ask me about <multimedia keys>. |
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| 14:18.44 | darsie | Thanks. Loading a keymap from a script is handy, though. Like the script asdf switches to dvorak, while aoeu switches to de. |
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| 14:18.52 | greycat | the pkg descr for keyboard-configuration points to /etc/default/keyboard which points to keyboard(5) |
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| 14:20.00 | darsie | Is it ok to remove plymouth(-label) so I can install console-common? |
| 14:20.42 | greycat | keyboard(5) points to /usr/share/keymaps/ and /usr/share/syscons/keymaps/ neither of which exists for me |
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| 14:21.54 | mason | greycat: You don't have console-data installed then. |
| 14:22.51 | mason | Not seeing the syscons directory. |
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| 14:25.40 | darsie | I selected dvorak from dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration, but it didn't change to dvorak. It's still asdf. |
| 14:26.05 | darsie | In the console. Not x. |
| 14:26.23 | mason | darsie: Rebooting would work, or ... re-run keyboard-setup.sh from init.d |
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| 14:27.06 | greycat | keyboard(5) tells you about some udevadm command you need to run if you don't plan to reboot |
| 14:27.34 | darsie | How bad is removing plymouth(-label)? |
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| 14:29.11 | darsie | didn't help. |
| 14:30.01 | darsie | I'd like to have a working loadkeys. |
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| 14:32.10 | mason | darsie: Does it not load keymaps for you? localectl tries to assert itself in this area, but it shouldn't immediately overwrite what you do with loadkeys |
| 14:33.12 | darsie | /etc/init.d/keyboard-setup.sh reload/restart didn't do it. |
| 14:33.40 | darsie | mason: loadkeys says 'file dvorak not found' or so. |
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| 14:34.24 | mason | darsie: Do you have console-data installed so that you have the keymap? |
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| 14:34.42 | darsie | Yes. Actually that message was without console-data. |
| 14:34.52 | mason | darsie: apt-file search /usr/share/keymaps/ | grep dvor shows a number of options |
| 14:35.39 | mason | darsie: You should be able to point loadkeys right at the file you want, although it ought to search directories it knows about if you don't give it a full path. |
| 14:36.32 | darsie | With console-data I get https://paste.debian.net/1159372/ |
| 14:36.35 | mason | darsie: For my part, I tend to like a modified keymap that swaps around a number of keys for me, and just stuffing it in there is enough to get loadkeys to find it. localectl will find it as well. |
| 14:36.55 | mason | darsie: Try it as root, or with sudo. |
| 14:37.44 | darsie | root works |
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| 14:38.20 | mason | darsie: In this brave new world of NIH and SNS, you probably want to do what you're trying to do with localectl. |
| 14:40.07 | mason | ...because it makes sense to layer megabytes of code on top to run loadkeys *for* you. =cough= |
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| 14:42.12 | gryffus | How do I login to local root user on a machine that is member of active directory? It seems to be trying domain "root" account |
| 14:42.31 | mason | greycat: Correct your nsswitch.conf |
| 14:42.38 | mason | sorry, gryffus ^ |
| 14:42.51 | darsie | bernhard@b:~$ localectl list-keymaps |
| 14:42.51 | darsie | Failed to read list of keymaps: No such file or directory |
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| 14:45.46 | gryffus | mason, everything is set to "combat" |
| 14:45.59 | gryffus | s/combat/compat/ |
| 14:46.05 | mason | Ah, I was wondering. |
| 14:47.25 | mason | darsie: Hm, no clue what it's referring to. Initial glance through strace, I still get that message but I see it pulling through all of /usr/share/keymaps. Looking closer. |
| 14:47.52 | greycat | I'm guessing "localectl" is a thing that's installed because it's part of systemd, but is not actually used. |
| 14:49.36 | gryffus | I had user != root in /etc/pam.d/gdm3 |
| 14:49.42 | mason | greycat: That may be the case. Raspbian ships it but doesn't use it, which confused me at first. I though for sure Debian used it, since it's there, but I'm probably wrong. |
| 14:50.34 | darsie | localectl set-keymap dvorak/de works as root, even though list doesn't work. As normal user it asks me to authenticate as fg or so. |
| 14:50.35 | mason | darsie: With this in mind, ignore my suggestion to use localectl. That said, you shouldn't strictly have to invoke loadkeys yourself, although I've done so out of rc.local in the past on various systems. |
| 14:50.58 | mason | darsie: It probably works simply *because* it drives the lower-level tools. |
| 14:50.59 | greycat | I don't really know how it works... I only know a few of the bot triggers, and I'm trusting that if the !keymap factoid becomes totally out of date, eventually someone will correct it. |
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| 14:52.36 | mason | will work on drinking more coffee, as coffee intake is inversely proportional to my spewing confusion on IRC. |
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| 14:53.35 | darsie | mason: Imagine a system with multiple users. One would just have to type the first 4 keys (aoeu or asdf) to invoke a script changing the keyboard layout to something one is used to. Right now it's just me, but before I didn't know how to switch so someone else could use the computer. |
| 14:54.13 | darsie | rn I know how to switch, I guess, so it'll work for me now. |
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| 14:54.29 | darsie | even though I have to type that command with two fingers. |
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| 14:54.39 | mason | darsie: If people are using console and X in equal measure that might be a trick. I feel like you'll have an easier time asserting custom keymaps for folks running X. |
| 14:55.33 | mason | darsie: For X, depending on what kind of sessions people run, maybe you can make use of per-user setxkbmap. |
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| 15:06.27 | darsie | mason: It was an issue during setup of a console only machine by two people not proficient with each others keyboard layout. |
| 15:07.06 | mason | darsie: maybe a sudo-based command could set the console appropriately as each logs in |
| 15:07.24 | mason | from .profile or similar |
| 15:07.29 | darsie | It's bypassed now, as we both access the machine wiht ssh, now. |
| 15:08.09 | darsie | I just installed my ssh key on the machine. |
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| 15:09.53 | abff | does anyone present fuck with libvirt |
| 15:10.25 | mason | abff: Not when it's presented that way, no. |
| 15:10.36 | abff | rolls eyes |
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| 15:10.53 | mason | critical miss |
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| 15:12.08 | abff | It says in libvirt-doc that the virsh function to convert a qemu-argv to xml format to be used by libvirt is deprecated. Do you know if it's been replaced |
| 15:12.11 | abff | ? |
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| 15:16.21 | abff | I'll give some context, I've opted to use virt-manager to load up my vms, and I'd like to be able to have qemu utilise unix sockets for the spice console. I've been able to successfully determine the argument I need to be passed to the qemu binary, however I have no idea how to form the xml doc libvirt reads when preparing that exec, maybe I have been reading all the wrong manuals. Any ideas? |
| 15:16.44 | mason | Why not simply use that tool? |
| 15:16.58 | mason | Doesn't look deprecated to me. |
| 15:17.38 | abff | sooo the libvirt-doc package gives you a neat webpage that insists the function of virsh is gone as of version 5.5 file:///usr/share/doc/libvirt-doc/html/drvqemu.html#xmlimport |
| 15:17.51 | abff | and when I try to run it I get an error as they described |
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| 15:18.27 | abff | I can pastebin it if you'd rather not clutter up your docs |
| 15:18.30 | mason | Oh, thought you were talking about domxml-from-native - looking at xmlimport |
| 15:19.00 | abff | domxml-from-native is the function I was trying to use |
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| 15:19.59 | abff | libvirt is at version 6.5 on this system. |
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| 15:21.02 | mason | What version of what OS are you on? Not seeing that doc file on Buster. |
| 15:21.07 | abff | testing |
| 15:21.16 | mason | Ah, that'd be #debian-next on OFTC. |
| 15:21.42 | Eduard_Munteanu | Hi. My AltGr no longer works since last week, any idea why? I can't see the keypress in xev or showkey at all. |
| 15:21.54 | abff | I'll give it a go, do you happen to know any esoteric resources for libvirt that isn't listed on the debian wiki? |
| 15:22.23 | mason | abff: I'd tend to go with upstream or the Red Hat docs if you need more, and neither of those indicate that it's a deprecated function. |
| 15:22.37 | mason | https://www.libvirt.org/manpages/virsh.html#id82 for instance |
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| 15:23.34 | abff | the red hat user docs are surprisingly sparse and scrambled, again I could just be looking in all the wrong places |
| 15:23.44 | mason | Oh, your page comes from https://libvirt.org/drvqemu.html#xmlimport, and that does seem to indicate it doesn't exist any more. odd. |
| 15:24.03 | abff | indeed |
| 15:24.21 | mason | That doesn't seem like a useful deletion. |
| 15:24.30 | abff | tell me about it! |
| 15:24.43 | abff | I just want to fix all the screen tearing and put this little gpu to work |
| 15:25.07 | mason | abff: If you can hang on a sec, I can ask about this. |
| 15:25.31 | abff | I'm really considering just copying the command from ps and removing virt-manager |
| 15:26.14 | mason | virt-manager is convenient for getting quick/easy consoles. |
| 15:26.42 | mason | I've just asked upstream folks what's replaced domxml-to-native, if anything. |
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| 15:26.48 | abff | neato |
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| 15:27.05 | mason | No way to know when they'll be awake/see the question, but I'll pass it along once I have an answer. |
| 15:27.11 | abff | thanks, and thanks for overlooking my stuffy attitude B) |
| 15:27.18 | abff | I'll be around |
| 15:27.35 | mason | No worries. It gave me an opportunity to affect a high dudgeon. Hard to pass that up. |
| 15:27.55 | abff | if I quit my internet is just acting up, you can hit my bouncer abff_ |
| 15:28.03 | mason | kk |
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| 15:43.22 | mason | abff: So, there is no replacement. I didn't ask for a rationalle as that never ends well. Best bet is to just examine the arguments one by one, as nothing should be too obscure. You can ask here even. |
| 15:43.56 | abff | mason: okay I'll just start messing with it |
| 15:44.25 | abff | I was going to try it but then I went into a rabbit hole about unix sockets and the virt-admin command and I just made myself more confused |
| 15:44.40 | abff | I'll just take the uncautious approach |
| 15:44.51 | mason | abff: What produced the invocation originally? If it was virt-manager, that stores the XML form all by itself, so you wouldn't have to translate. |
| 15:45.42 | abff | yeah it was auto generate, the xml is present but it defaults to tcp and there's no easy-mode dropdown options to use a socket instead |
| 15:45.58 | mason | ah |
| 15:46.22 | abff | so I know which xml tags I need but not the variable names |
| 15:46.31 | abff | whatever those are called in xml |
| 15:47.23 | mason | abff: https://libvirt.org/formatdomain.html#unix-domain-socket-client-server ? |
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| 15:47.41 | mason | I'm probably missing some context. |
| 15:48.57 | mason | I tend to use a combination of virt-manager and virtinst to fire up VMs. virt-manager initially, but then I capture the minimal requirements for the VM and stuff them away (as zvol dataset properties FWIW) for invoking virtinstall, for when I want to migrate the VM. |
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| 15:49.39 | abff | yes |
| 15:49.40 | abff | OH |
| 15:50.01 | abff | .e. using listen types 'socket' or 'none' |
| 15:50.06 | abff | the option was there all along |
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| 15:50.12 | mason | Oh, cool. |
| 15:50.18 | abff | I just assumed none meant no spice server |
| 15:50.22 | abff | but none means use a socket |
| 15:50.23 | abff | wtf |
| 15:51.25 | abff | god I feel like such a schmuck |
| 15:51.39 | abff | I spent like 2 hours over 2 days |
| 15:51.43 | mason | Eh, it's all confusing and documentation is never amazing. |
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| 15:52.09 | abff | I had to write a technical document once |
| 15:52.18 | abff | I feel their pain |
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| 16:03.23 | abff | mason: so I didn't have to invent a socket for spice like I thought, I made listen type="socket" and when I ran it virt-manager invented one for me. it's still running poorly though, maybe even worse than when it was running over the network stack :\ |
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| 16:04.32 | abff | sigh ain't it the life |
| 16:05.14 | mason | abff: I struggle with spice sometimes. Have you tried VNC? It's less painful for me most of the time. |
| 16:05.26 | mutantturkey | i have a automated script that's running into a config issue where it's asking me the typical "Replace/Keep/Diff/Examine" on a config file managed by apt, but changed by me. I want to keep my version. Is there a flag like -y to keep my configs? |
| 16:05.36 | mason | virt-manager, it's the "Display" setting. |
| 16:06.02 | abff | mason: I've never had a good time with vnc even on lan, but it's worth a try |
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| 16:11.39 | abff | mutantturkey: found this https://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/09/21/debian-conffile-configuration-file-managed-by-dpkg/ |
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| 16:14.33 | abff | unfortunately this is very old and a comment says it's not possible to specify these options for specific packages |
| 16:14.40 | abff | that however may have changed in the last decade |
| 16:17.01 | abff | mutantturkey: here's a nicer looking one https://www.bggofurther.com/2018/07/automate-apt-update-and-keep-current-config-files/ |
| 16:17.41 | abff | seems as though since 2010 you now have to add an environment variable that tells apt to run in a non-interactive mode |
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| 16:20.05 | abff | and if I'm not mistaken using this technique you should be able to filter out any packages you don't want updating without interactive mode |
| 16:20.52 | abff | s/don\'t\ want.*out/want to update in/ |
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| 16:27.09 | oxek | where can I see a list of new packages (not new versions of existing packages) entering debian repositories? |
| 16:27.46 | abff | mason: spice over tcp is still faster than both virt-manager's default vnc settings and spice over socket. I guess I'll just stick with that then. It must use some streaming compression thingy that's just more efficient than straight up gl in this mode |
| 16:28.21 | mason | abff: Ah, sorry it's painful, then. :/ |
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| 16:29.41 | abff | I'll live. I'm just using the virts for possible jobs that require windows. If they need me to watch videos or make voip calls I'll just quit lol |
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| 16:34.17 | mutantturkey | abff: yeah thanks1 |
| 16:34.19 | mutantturkey | sudo apt-get -o Dpkg::Options::="--force-confdef" -o Dpkg::Options::="--force-confold" install mypackage1 mypackage2 |
| 16:34.22 | mutantturkey | like tat |
| 16:34.23 | abff | oxek: https://packages.debian.org/experimental/main/newpkg |
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| 16:34.45 | abff | mutantturkey: I think it's more kosher to use apt these days. |
| 16:35.06 | mutantturkey | i don't know what that means |
| 16:35.45 | abff | mutantturkey: I just mean that I believe using the apt command is recommended. |
| 16:35.56 | abff | and that apt-get is being phased out |
| 16:36.02 | mutantturkey | huh, til |
| 16:36.26 | mutantturkey | what a cluster fuck of tools. |
| 16:37.47 | abff | mutantturkey: it's a good thing. imagine updating a library and then deprecating a widely used function of that library. you'd break a million things. incrementing a version number does not always indicate how radically different that piece of software became |
| 16:37.57 | abff | it's more practical to rename it |
| 16:38.09 | abff | then you don't break everyone's scripts at once |
| 16:38.19 | abff | and they can adopt at their own rate |
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| 16:38.29 | abff | more easily that is |
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| 16:39.47 | abff | ,newpkg |
| 16:39.59 | abff | ,help |
| 16:40.00 | judd | (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. |
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| 16:41.32 | abff | T_T now judd is ignoring me |
| 16:41.43 | greycat | judd isn't an infobot; that's dpkg. |
| 16:41.48 | abff | oh |
| 16:42.19 | greycat | although dpkg does not have a factoid named "newpkg" either, so I don't know what you're looking for |
| 16:42.37 | greycat | !nmg |
| 16:42.39 | dpkg | The packaging tutorial (https://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (https://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. https://www.debian.org/devel/ |
| 16:42.40 | greycat | that, maybe? |
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| 16:43.07 | abff | greycat: I was just wondering if there was a bot cmd to point to newpkg because oxek asked about it |
| 16:43.28 | greycat | oh, "newpkg" is the name of a package? |
| 16:43.37 | greycat | not in stable. |
| 16:43.45 | abff | nah it's the name of an rss/html feed of new packages appearing in experimental |
| 16:44.34 | abff | I just wanted to figure out who the bot was so I could msg it, didn't realise there was more than one |
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| 16:45.08 | greycat | dpkg, newpkg is <reply>https://packages.debian.org/experimental/main/newpkg shows new packages in the <experimental> repository. |
| 16:45.09 | dpkg | greycat: okay |
| 16:45.21 | abff | noice |
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| 16:48.21 | mutantturkey | abff: oh i get it, it's like ifconfig to me though, just anohter tool to keep up with to maintain relevance as a sysadmin |
| 16:48.24 | mutantturkey | that's life! |
| 16:49.19 | abff | indeed, just be thankful you're not a web developer, that's pipeline jumping hell |
| 16:49.29 | mutantturkey | hah true that! |
| 16:49.54 | mutantturkey | the skill of a sysadmin/developer is more in their ability to pattern match, read and understand concepts than it is to build anything |
| 16:50.44 | mutantturkey | i think that's why so many of my programming buddys do things like write embedded code, or work on a toy OS, or play with breadboards, just something they can really focus on programming/logic not knowledge acquisition and application |
| 16:51.40 | abff | chad nerds and virgin geeks ngl |
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| 17:08.30 | mutantturkey | chaff nerds |
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| 17:10.51 | jmd | Can anyone tell me how I can remap my CapsLock key so that it behaves like the Ctrl key? |
| 17:11.14 | mason | jmd: in /etc/default/keyboard, set XKBOPTIONS="ctrl:nocaps" |
| 17:11.37 | greycat | or you can use xmodmap if you're running X |
| 17:12.08 | abff | I use setxkbmap in my .xsession |
| 17:12.15 | jmd | I don't do X |
| 17:12.29 | rgwu | You can use udev |
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| 17:13.07 | jmd | mason: I'll try that one. Will I need to reboot? |
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| 17:13.33 | greycat | read "man 5 keyboard" |
| 17:13.48 | mason | jmd: You should be able to re-run /etc/init.d/keyboard-setup.sh too, and it'll be quickly obvious if it worked. |
| 17:14.12 | greycat | keyboard(5) has a udevadm command you're supposed to run after modifying the file |
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| 17:15.22 | mason | Oh, hrm. That's interesting. Sure enough. |
| 17:15.50 | mason | greycat: That says the udevadm command is just for X. |
| 17:16.28 | abff | oh that's nice that they adopted the xkb options |
| 17:16.28 | greycat | Ah. It says to use "setupcon" for console. |
| 17:16.54 | greycat | I always skip over the "do ___ for console" sections because I live in the 21st century. |
| 17:17.30 | mason | !SNS |
| 17:17.30 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
| 17:18.38 | abff | greycat: X in the 21st century is a travesty tbh. |
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| 17:21.52 | jmd | In the case of Debian, "new" means anything that is less than 24 months old. |
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| 17:23.57 | abff | jmd: thankfully the 21st century started more than 24 months ago :^) |
| 17:25.10 | jmd | But even sid is using some packages from the last century. |
| 17:25.36 | sponix | if you feel you MUST have the latest of everything, there is Arch |
| 17:25.37 | greycat | Out of curiosity, which ones? |
| 17:26.22 | sponix | trying to do current on Debian often causes trouble |
| 17:26.31 | mutante | Maybe things still being used after some time is a hint they are working? |
| 17:27.14 | sponix | mutante: true, it always gets me to see how many times "less" gets updated though |
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| 17:27.48 | oxek | I am trying to make Capslock behave as Esc, in /etc/default/keyboard I modified it to XKBOPTIONS="esc:nocaps" but it does not work (even after rebooting) |
| 17:27.50 | rrn | What has changed in the past 24 months? |
| 17:27.52 | oxek | I think I got the syntax wrong |
| 17:28.05 | oxek | anyone have a link that explains the syntax? |
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| 17:28.09 | rrn | Much of the OS utilizes applied CS concepts from the 1960s... |
| 17:28.10 | greycat | man 5 keyboard |
| 17:28.12 | oxek | 'man keyboard' is of no help |
| 17:28.26 | rrn | maybe some advances in machine learning and quantum computing |
| 17:28.35 | rrn | show me those Debian packages... |
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| 17:29.07 | jmd | Speaking of which, I wonder if gettext is going to be updated in sid now that its over 12 months old? |
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| 17:29.46 | rrn | Now, here is a better question... |
| 17:30.12 | oxek | I also tried XKBOPTIONS="Esc:nocaps", XKBOPTIONS="escape:nocaps", XKBOPTIONS="ESCAPE:nocaps" |
| 17:30.12 | rrn | What fraction of the SLOC count (if any) has undergone correctness-proving? |
| 17:30.13 | oxek | but none worked |
| 17:30.54 | abff | oxek: /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/xorg.lst |
| 17:31.25 | oxek | abff: ah, so XKBOPTIONS="caps:escape" ? |
| 17:32.00 | abff | I use caps:swapescape |
| 17:33.14 | abff | sorry I didn't read what you asked i just pasted the file with every single one that you have obviously read already |
| 17:33.49 | abff | bad form |
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| 17:35.21 | oxek | the syntax is atrocious, I'll see after reboot if it worked |
| 17:36.31 | abff | there are more accurate ways you can do it, but if I remember correctly it's just as confusing |
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| 17:39.19 | abff | jmd: I find comfort in the fact that there's a refined, and discriminant selection process. even unstable is stableaf these days. unlike arch which might break once a month |
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| 17:40.56 | jmd | abff: Sure there's always a compromise between getting the latest software and getting stable software. |
| 17:41.06 | shibboleth | there appears to be a bug in a debian package, with whom should i be talking? |
| 17:41.18 | oxek | shibboleth: with reportbug |
| 17:41.42 | oxek | good luck, it's quite an experience |
| 17:42.07 | shibboleth | maintainer is mait, maitland bottoms |
| 17:42.13 | greycat | !bts |
| 17:42.14 | dpkg | Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, http://bugs.debian.org/ or to go directly to the bug page for a particular package/bug, try http://bugs.debian.org/packagename or http://bugs.debian.org/bugnumber . aptitude install reportbug, and check out <querybts> too. Users of unstable and testing are required to check the BTS. See also <apt-listbugs>, <reportbug>. http://wiki.debian.org/HowtoUseBTS |
| 17:42.35 | jmd | But stuff like gettext 0.20 is generally agreed to be stable and contains important security fixes, is released over a year ago and is not even in sid yet. |
| 17:43.03 | greycat | You may file a wishlist bug "please upgrade to 0.20" if one hasn't already been filed. |
| 17:43.31 | jmd | I think there is one, but like so many bugs they just go to the back of the pile. |
| 17:43.49 | abff | oxek: the man page for reportbug is only 600 lines long how bad could it be |
| 17:44.17 | jmd | And there are a hell of a lot of packages which depend on gettext! |
| 17:44.58 | oxek | abff: my sarcasm detector does not work |
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| 17:46.24 | sponix2ipfw | jmd: is there something in the newer version of it you need? |
| 17:47.31 | jmd | sponix2ipfw: Well it depends on how you define "need". I can live without it, but it's a hell of a nuiscance, not to mention warding of criticism from users. |
| 17:48.29 | greycat | #934738 |
| 17:48.30 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/934738 in gettext (open): «gettext 0.20.2 available»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-08-14; last modified: 2020-06-06. |
| 17:48.39 | jmd | Some of whom have dumped debian for other distros precisely for that reason. |
| 17:48.53 | greycat | Interesting that it's "normal" not "wishlist". |
| 17:49.35 | jmd | Interesting that its not "urgent" |
| 17:49.36 | greycat | ,v gettext |
| 17:49.37 | judd | Package: gettext on amd64 -- jessie: 0.19.3-2; stretch: 0.19.8.1-2+deb9u1; buster: 0.19.8.1-9; bullseye: 0.19.8.1-10; sid: 0.19.8.1-10 |
| 17:50.04 | greycat | Very confusing... message #27 in the bug page says "I've just uploaded gettext 0.20.1-1 for unstable. It may take manual processing frpm ftpmasters because there are two new binary packages." |
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| 17:50.38 | greycat | "I saw that gettext 0.20.1 disappeared from the NEW queue and that it did not appear in Sid. Is there any issue raised by the FTP Master for rejection?" |
| 17:51.15 | greycat | 'Sorry for the late reply. I was asked to write a more detailed copyright notice because the current one is considered not to be "good enough" by one of the FTP masters.' |
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| 17:52.11 | greycat | But apparently it's not that urgent to *you* because you couldn't even bother to read the existing bug report, let alone help the author with the stuff requested at the bottom. |
| 17:52.22 | greycat | s/author/maintainer/ |
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| 17:55.14 | oxek | debian 11 is 2 years away, so there's time |
| 17:56.31 | jmd | gret |
| 17:56.35 | greycat | Probably less than 2 years, but the full freeze date is not determined yet |
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| 17:56.58 | jmd | greycat: It's not that urgent to me, because I have alternatives other than debian. |
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| 17:58.48 | oxek | jmd: what do you use at times when you're not using debian? |
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| 18:02.16 | nvz | yeah I looked into that as well and I couldnt find anything real solid to explain why we're still patching 4 year old gettext source.. the maintainer seems to think as long as there are no bugs that they can't solve there is no reason to update it |
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| 18:02.40 | greycat | nvz: ... or ... you could read the bug report that I linked to and quoted pieces of. |
| 18:02.53 | nvz | oh I read it, here and there :D |
| 18:02.59 | FuzzyByte | nvz: I mean, compatibility is important |
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| 18:03.25 | FuzzyByte | Debian is notknown to be very stable for no reason. |
| 18:03.25 | FuzzyByte | Debian is not known to be very stable for no reason. * |
| 18:03.29 | nvz | the only two things they complain about is lack of bugs and the copyright file |
| 18:03.35 | annadane | in my xfce session and startup, i have 4 entries - "tracker application miner" "tracker file system miner" "tracker metadata extractor" and "tracker store", the first 3 are in /usr/lib/tracker and the last one is a bit different, does anyone have any clue what those are? |
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| 18:08.02 | NetTerminalGene | annadane: i think it is gnome search indexer |
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| 18:08.58 | nvz | personally it seems vague to me.. near as I can tell the version we've been using for the last 4 years or more and all the upstream versions since then have the exact same lisc and copyright notices |
| 18:08.59 | abff | NetTerminalGene: you'd think but /usr/lib/tracker isn't listed in apt-file for the tracker package |
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| 18:09.35 | abff | but it most likely is |
| 18:10.30 | nvz | looks at the upstream 0.19.8.1, 0.20, 0.21, and sees nothing obvious |
| 18:14.44 | nvz | with the exception of the fsf url changing from http to https.. I dont see any difference :P |
| 18:16.48 | jmd | nvz: Normally the release notes should tell you the differences |
| 18:17.13 | jmd | or the NEWS file. |
| 18:17.47 | greycat | 14:10 * nvz looks at the upstream |
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| 18:19.07 | nvz | yeah I'm not seeing anything that the maintainer or ftp master shouldnt have been more specific about somewhere |
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| 18:20.31 | karlpinc | annadane: FWIW, there is this in the IRC backhistory: https://www.linuxuprising.com/2019/07/how-to-completely-disable-tracker.html |
| 18:20.32 | Gerowen | Anybody know what package/firmware I need to install in order to have working graphics on a 10th gen core i3 laptop? |
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| 18:20.55 | karlpinc | Gerowen: You did the install already? |
| 18:21.26 | annadane | it's all good, i was just wondering if it was some weird malware thing |
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| 18:21.42 | annadane | although it's gnome... :P |
| 18:22.17 | Gerowen | karlpinc: Yes got the install working, I can ctrl+alt+f2 into a terminal, just no graphics. |
| 18:22.32 | Gerowen | Added non-free and contrib and installed firmware-linux, which pulls in firmware-linux-nonfree, but still no love. |
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| 18:22.47 | nvz | you will probably need to use backports kernel and firmware and idk if that will even be new enough |
| 18:22.49 | greycat | use "dmesg | grep -i firmware" to see what it wants |
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| 18:23.12 | towo` | and asking the same question in #debian on the other network is bad style |
| 18:23.14 | greycat | I would bet it wants some file from firmware-misc-nonfree but who knows? You know. After you check. |
| 18:23.17 | karlpinc | (Can sometimes be easiest to use the unofficial installer with non-free firmware included. See the <firmware images> factoid.) |
| 18:23.20 | nvz | the 10th gen processors are only like 2 months old |
| 18:23.40 | towo` | it's not packaged yet in firmware-misc-nonfree |
| 18:24.09 | towo` | meybe it's in the version from testing/unstable |
| 18:24.20 | karlpinc | !backports |
| 18:24.21 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
| 18:24.54 | towo` | 20190717-2~bpo10+1 |
| 18:25.01 | towo` | not new enough |
| 18:26.44 | greycat | ,v firmware-misc-nonfree |
| 18:26.45 | judd | Package: firmware-misc-nonfree on amd64 -- jessie-security/non-free: 20161130-5~deb8u1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20190717-2~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20200619-1; sid/non-free: 20200619-1 |
| 18:26.53 | greycat | ,checkbackport firmware-misc-nonfree |
| 18:26.54 | judd | Backporting package firmware-misc-nonfree in sidâbuster/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using buster. |
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| 18:43.56 | blurkis | deeply sorry if its offtopic, but is there some GUI for git in debian testing? apt-cache search git seems to not give me anything relevant..? |
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| 18:46.23 | oxek | blurkis: git-gui |
| 18:46.37 | blurkis | oxek: found it just a second ago, but thanks. |
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| 18:54.29 | abff | blurkis: there's also giggle, git-cola, gitg, and codereview via the pip |
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| 19:04.12 | phogg | blurkis: Have you considered magit? |
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| 20:35.38 | blurkis | phogg: git gui did the thrick. I just wanted a simple gui. Git is a bit tricky when you never used any such program. |
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| 20:36.31 | phogg | blurkis: very true. When you're more comfortable you can get a lot of benefit from more involved tools like magit. |
| 20:36.32 | |aaron_ | Hi all. I'm trying to do an unattended installation using the Debian 10 netinst image. For some reason though, the e1000 kernel module isn't getting loaded (or even present in the file system afaict). If I use the attended installer on the same machine the module is loaded and my nic nic works fine? |
| 20:37.38 | |aaron_ | Do I need to specify a certain package in pkgsel/include in my preseed config? |
| 20:42.46 | Antoine- | Hello, I would like to have three partitions. One for my backups, one for my video files (recorded by a camera), and one for my movies. I'd like the movie partition to be mirrored (with LVM). Should I create one large volume group and 3 logical volumes within it or should I create two partitions and one LVM mirrored logical volume? |
| 20:44.49 | jmcnaught | I don't see a reason for more than one volume group. |
| 20:45.02 | jmcnaught | Oh sorry I think I misread. |
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| 20:45.23 | jmcnaught | But I would create one large VG and three logical volumes if it were me. |
| 20:46.16 | karlpinc | Antoine-: I find that managing everything within LVM gives you the most flexibility. This basically means one LVM physical volume per physical drive. There's rarely a reason for more than one volume group. Offhand I can't think of one. |
| 20:46.25 | Antoine- | Ok :). I'm new to LVM. What is the difference between the two setup I describeD? |
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| 20:46.59 | karlpinc | Antoine-: Think of a logical volume as a partition. |
| 20:47.11 | Antoine- | karlpinc: Ok :) |
| 20:47.25 | Antoine- | In case of a disk failure, would one setup be more resilient? |
| 20:47.58 | karlpinc | Antoine-: Presumeably you've two physical drives. Otherwise mirroring does not make sense. |
| 20:48.07 | Antoine- | Between two partitions and one mirrored logical volume and three logical volumes (one mirrored) |
| 20:48.18 | Antoine- | karlpinc: Yes, I have 3. 2*2TB and one 4TB |
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| 20:48.48 | karlpinc | Antoine-: Regular partitions are a pain to resize and move between physical disks. Logical volumes make both operations easy. |
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| 20:49.10 | Antoine- | Ok :) |
| 20:49.47 | karlpinc | Antoine-: A logical volume, unlike a partition, can also span multiple physical disks. |
| 20:50.07 | Antoine- | If a disk fails and I chose the partition setup, I would lose only the partitions of that disk, right? Now if I chose the three logical volume solution, I could loose all non mirrored partitions, right? |
| 20:50.11 | karlpinc | Antoine-: Anyway, anything you don't mirror can be lost if you lose a disk. |
| 20:50.13 | Antoine- | Since they might span multiple disks |
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| 20:51.42 | Bushmaster | Hi, when I try to create a new directory under my home, it says permission denied, here is the output https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/76nSfSJMvf/ |
| 20:52.30 | sney | Bushmaster: that's not your home, that's just /home |
| 20:52.40 | sney | yours would be /home/bushcat most likely |
| 20:53.03 | mutante | Bushmaster: cd ~ |
| 20:53.27 | karlpinc | Antoine-: There are --alloc choices that say how data is allocated to logicval volumes within a volume group. So you need not have your lv-s spread over multiple physical volumes. Basically, you have control. |
| 20:53.46 | mutante | Bushmaster: 'cd ~' always gets you to your home and 'pwd' tells you where you are |
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| 20:54.08 | cbthree | where can i download debian-10.5.0-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso? |
| 20:54.24 | Bushmaster | interesting sney so / is root and home is one directory under root and then bushcat is my directory where everything is permissible? |
| 20:55.08 | sney | Bushmaster: basically. |
| 20:55.10 | sney | !fhs |
| 20:55.10 | Bushmaster | mutante, I know that, I just did not know my home is actually bushcat and /home is not my home as sney rightly pointed out |
| 20:55.11 | dpkg | Debian follows the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. The filesystem is categorized by purpose, not application. This allows, for example, the easy and efficient deployment of a read-only /usr area across a number of thin clients. See http://www.pathname.com/fhs/ or install the 'debian-policy' package (/usr/share/doc/debian-policy/fhs/*), or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard, or "man hier". |
| 20:56.22 | mutante | Bushmaster: yep, it's made for multiple users |
| 20:57.29 | Bushmaster | mutante, so when I installed my Debian Linux, I created a user account called bushcat and what Linux did is made a permissible directory called bushcat under /home? |
| 20:57.33 | Antoine- | karlpinc: So could I chose to have one logical volume stored on a specific physical volume? This way I could put logical volume 1 on disk 1, lv2 on disk 2 and lv3 (mirrored) on disk 3 and the rest of disk 1 and 2. So if a disk fails, I would lose at most one lv (one of the two not mirrored) |
| 20:57.41 | Antoine- | karlpinc: Does this make sense or not? |
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| 20:58.57 | Bushmaster | I am just trying to get all the concept clear mutante sney so filesystem hierarchy starts with root (/) and right there among other directories like bin, etc, proc etc we have home and that home has nothing to do with my home, my home is bushcat as subdirectory under home which is permissible |
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| 21:00.47 | karlpinc | Antoine-: Yes. You should read the ALLOCATION section of "man lvm" to make sure that you can set policy -- because I've not done it and you'll want to be sure. Failing --alloc, you can always have separate volume groups. I see no reason why a physical volume can't be shared between volume groups. That's the dirt-simple way to ensure no "crossover". But that limits your flexibilty so I'd consider that last. |
| 21:01.03 | mutante | Bushmaster: that's correct. all regular user home dirs are normally under /home/<username> just root has a special location and uses /root for home |
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| 21:02.18 | Bushmaster | mutante, so i created a directory under /(root) /home (which is controlled by root ) / home (which is controlled by user) |
| 21:03.04 | Bushmaster | now lets takes a look at that paste mutante https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ttS9DqXnmm/ what is that total 204 right at the top means, surely its not the total number of diectory, so what is it? |
| 21:03.20 | sney | Bushmaster: the Filesystem Heirarchy Standard defines this, and dpkg gave you a link above which describes the whole thing, how it works, what it's for, etc |
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| 21:04.49 | Bushmaster | sney, okay thanks, I am following a book, the book did mention about FSHS but simnply touched it briefly, |
| 21:04.58 | mutante | Bushmaster: that's the total sum of "blocks" used by the files |
| 21:05.32 | Bushmaster | mutante, you mean hard disk FAT or something like that? |
| 21:05.35 | Antoine- | karlpinc: True, I wonder if I could extend those then |
| 21:05.41 | Bushmaster | why on earth I need to know the block |
| 21:05.45 | Antoine- | karlpinc: Thanks a lot for the info. I'll read the manual :) |
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| 21:06.51 | greycat | not "the block". "the number of blocks". a block is a unit of storage from the 1970s. |
| 21:07.03 | mutante | Bushmaster: that's a good question and the answer is "you probably don't anymore". but see for background here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7401704/what-is-that-total-in-the-very-first-line-after-ls-l |
| 21:07.21 | mutante | it's not very meaningful nowadays |
| 21:08.17 | mutante | Bushmaster: what's more meaningful is the output of "du -hs ." inside a dir. that gives you actual disk space in meaningful units |
| 21:08.43 | mutante | like, you know.. Kilobytes, Megabytes |
| 21:08.46 | Antoine- | karlpinc: Is there a use case where multiple volume groups would be needed? |
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| 21:09.48 | |aaron_ | So I'm seeing something similar if I choose 'expert install' and drop to a shell. e1000 module isn't loaded, and there's only a single network driver even present in /lib/modules/${uname -r)/kernel/drivers/net/ethernet, which is cnic.ko |
| 21:11.01 | sney | |aaron_: iirc that stuff is in udebs and loaded dynamically by the installer. there's probably something you have to do to tell it to load the udeb manually |
| 21:11.32 | |aaron_ | sney: Ah thank you thats helpful. What I'm *actually* trying to do is an unattended installation, but that driver doesnt get loaded |
| 21:12.21 | sney | |aaron_: #debian-boot on OFTC might be a good resource |
| 21:12.31 | |aaron_ | Cool I will check there ty |
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| 21:14.27 | Bushmaster | mutante, thanks and greycat yes, I was doing some Java programming to display time, apparently as you rightly pointed out Java has method that invoke time in miliseconds right from January 1970 and the book on Java mentioned what you just said, the time started to count right from the beginning of UNIX epoch in 1970 |
| 21:16.14 | mutante | Bushmaster: right. and 'date +%s' will give you the number of seconds since UNIX epoch started. |
| 21:18.13 | Bushmaster | mutante, i just run the command you provide to find out the size and here is the output https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/F7yYsDYy8X/ Question du is command right, -h is the option and I think h means human readable in gigabyte and what is s? |
| 21:18.47 | sney | sum |
| 21:18.59 | mutante | Bushmaster: s for summarize, show only the total |
| 21:19.13 | mutante | Bushmaster: 'man du' shows you all the other options |
| 21:19.51 | sney | and since 'du' is just a utility for displaying disk usage, it can't break anything. so just try stuff. read about options and test them. best way to learn |
| 21:20.55 | mutante | and yea, that G means Gigabyte here. it should probably use proper unit name GB |
| 21:21.08 | Bushmaster | mutante, thanks a lot, sney thanks for clarifying what du stands for, disk usage, that helps to remember |
| 21:21.57 | Bushmaster | mutante, so to find the space, we must need to be in that directory right? |
| 21:22.29 | mutante | Bushmaster: no, we don't have to. the . at the end meant "in the current directory" but you could instead give it the path to some other dir, starting with / |
| 21:22.37 | Bushmaster | for example du -hs may not work for all my directory under /home/bushcat |
| 21:22.56 | jmcnaught | ncdu is cool too |
| 21:22.59 | mutante | Bushmaster: du -hs /home/bushcat would work too, from any other dir |
| 21:23.29 | mutante | Bushmaster: just "." is a short cut for "the current dir, whichever it is" |
| 21:24.30 | Bushmaster | mutante, yes it did hers is the output https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/XNKqnh3z5y/ its very powerful command and I like it |
| 21:24.54 | Bushmaster | there is one large directory in my bushcat and its not permissible for some odd reason |
| 21:25.13 | Bushmaster | but I am learning hence I will get into lifting permission once I get to that chapter of that book |
| 21:26.39 | mutante | Bushmaster: first step, use the "ls" command you already know to find out who the owner of that directory is |
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| 21:33.41 | Bushmaster | mutante, your command to figure out time in Milliseconds from UNIX epoch is correct and cool, I just wrote a program in Java to see it matches, and it did , here is the output https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/3HnXCGCkWV/ |
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| 21:35.08 | Bushmaster | mutante, java gives me more accurate result of course, here is the source code I just wrote https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/vndgX6jF4q/ |
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| 21:39.09 | mutante | Bushmaster: 'date +%s.%N' = seconds and nanoseconds echo $(($(date +%s%N)/1000000)) = milliseconds |
| 21:40.32 | Bushmaster | mutante, this whole statement is command? |
| 21:43.27 | Bushmaster | mutante, yes I got it, clever, very clever |
| 21:43.36 | mutante | Bushmaster: 2 commands. date +%s.%N is the first one. I am never sure if adding ' makes it better or worse |
| 21:43.51 | mutante | ok, cool |
| 21:45.25 | Bushmaster | mutante, here is what I got https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/f4qGPH5GNP/ |
| 21:45.47 | Bushmaster | let me rewrite the java statements, to see I can match it with yours |
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| 21:49.22 | Bushmaster | mutante, yes it did, it gives the result in scientific notation where E12 in Java means exponent of 12 for the base 10, or simply 10^12 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/qcHKbPGX7B/ mutante |
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| 21:50.10 | Bushmaster | mutante, almost accurate to your second command with echo |
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| 21:52.23 | mutante | Bushmaster: yep, some milliseconds will always pass while you run it |
| 21:53.38 | mutante | Bushmaster: https://currentmillis.com/ |
| 21:53.39 | Bushmaster | mutante, yes, but I think writing it as java statement is more conceptual and easy for me than to write as command, may be cos I am new to Linux |
| 21:54.30 | Bushmaster | let me check the link |
| 21:55.20 | mutante | Bushmaster: what you are used to feels easier, the other way around for me and I don't have to compile |
| 21:56.19 | Bushmaster | mutante, I like this site, it lists many high level programming language to invoke time from UNIX epoch, wonderful and thanks |
| 21:56.42 | mutante | yw, i gotta go now. ttyl |
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| 21:59.18 | Bushmaster | yes with Java, you do not need to compile, javac is a command that will create a Bytecode which is not a compiled source code, what is does is it then feed that bytecode to JVM or Java Virtual Machine, which you or I do not need to know, and JVM will compile it, since JVM is platform independent and sits right on top of Java, anyone can utlize the java source code from any machines as lon g as they have JVM in it, and almost all OS comes |
| 21:59.18 | Bushmaster | with it, and since it is shield, it remain highly secured and remain better OOP than C++ |
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| 22:29.33 | karlpinc | Antoine-: Never mind. You can't put a pv in more than one vg. |
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| 22:31.02 | karlpinc | Antoine-: You'd use different vgs if you wanted to entirely isolate the storage supplied by _different_ pvs. This might be handy for moving devices between systems. |
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