| 00:00.35 | solrize | it looks like there are 3 there now, but the newest one may be the one i just upgraded to without having rebooted yet. i.e. previous one, current one, and one that will run next time i reboot |
| 00:00.48 | solrize | should i reboot and then autoremove again? |
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| 00:01.01 | sney | I agree that the default separate /boot if you're e.g. using luks is a little small, but it's fine if you're only using debian kernels. |
| 00:01.07 | sney | yes, that would be a good thing to try first |
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| 00:01.33 | solrize | ok gonna reboot, bbiab. yes i'm using luks and got a warning that there are just 346k free in /boot |
| 00:02.20 | CyberManifest | how do I remove a public key that isn't showing an id with 'sudo apt-key list' ? |
| 00:03.29 | sney | Warning: apt-key is deprecated. Manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d instead (see apt-key(8)). |
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| 00:04.26 | CyberManifest | mistakenly I was following the guidance of https://www.spotify.com/us/download/linux/ not knowing there was a spotify-client in the default repos |
| 00:04.43 | solrize | rebooted, apt autoremove didn't remove anything. can i manually remove old img? |
| 00:04.49 | CyberManifest | sney: yes I got that warning when adding it using the method from that link, but now I don't know how to remove it |
| 00:05.00 | sney | solrize: yes, if it corresponds to a kernel you don't have anymore, it's safe to delete manually |
| 00:05.17 | sney | CyberManifest: try reading the error message and following its recommendation |
| 00:05.38 | CyberManifest | sney: but I already added it |
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| 00:06.38 | sney | "manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d" means that trusted keys are stored as files in that directory. did you look in there for the spotify key? I'm sure you noticed the full path when you read the output of apt-key list. |
| 00:06.49 | solrize | ok removed old, but very weirdly, after the reboot the /dev/vda1 fs where /boot is is a lot bigger |
| 00:06.58 | solrize | so tons of space now |
| 00:07.46 | solrize | oh wait, wrong machine duh |
| 00:08.55 | CyberManifest | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.56 | CyberManifest | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.56 | CyberManifest | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.58 | solrize | ok removed some now, it helped considerably |
| 00:09.25 | CyberManifest | sney I'm confused http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/man8/apt-key.8.html says to use --keyring filename option but that's still with apt-key |
| 00:09.36 | solrize | why are the luks kernels so much bigger? 62MB vs around 5MB |
| 00:09.42 | grayghost | back again after reinstall ... still would not install wifi :( |
| 00:10.11 | sney | CyberManifest: you seem to have skipped over the part that says "manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d" again |
| 00:10.32 | sney | grayghost: ok, you'll need to install the firmware-atheros package directly then |
| 00:10.51 | CyberManifest | sney: I did a google search that man page link was first result, on that page I did a search for "trusted.gpg.d" and I showed you what it said. |
| 00:11.02 | sney | headdesk |
| 00:11.08 | grayghost | Where was that loacted ... I could not find it |
| 00:11.12 | CyberManifest | sney: so what is it Im skipping over? |
| 00:11.53 | sney | CyberManifest: the warning literally told you what to do. it gave you the name of the directory where those files are stored. the man page is available if you want more information, but ALL YOU NEED TO DO is cd to that directory and add/delete the individual key files. |
| 00:12.09 | sney | grayghost: enable non-free in sources.list, apt update, apt install firmware-atheros |
| 00:12.24 | CyberManifest | sney: perhaps I should ask... please translate: "manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d" what the heck does this even mean? |
| 00:13.01 | CyberManifest | how do I manage... what are keyring files... what the hell is trusted.gpg.d ? |
| 00:13.49 | sney | solrize: vmlinuz files are the kernel. initrd is a compressed ramdisk, it contains the software that the kernel loads first, which then loads the rest of the OS from disk. ~65M is standard for an initrd with or without luks |
| 00:14.01 | CyberManifest | sney: "cd to that directory..." which directory? |
| 00:14.43 | sney | CyberManifest: run 'apt-key list' and read the output. you'll see the full path to that directory, and the filenames for debian's keyring files. from there you should be able to figure out the rest. it's pretty straightforward but you do need to read the words on the screen |
| 00:15.01 | solrize | oh i was looking at vmlinuz. but the initrd on my non-luks machine is around 25MB, wonder what's different. that machine is a headless VM if that matters |
| 00:15.19 | CyberManifest | sney: but you said apt-key is deprecated so why would I issue: 'apt-key list' ? |
| 00:15.34 | solrize | actually i do have luks on that other one but only for a mounted fs if that matters |
| 00:15.35 | sney | CyberManifest: so that you can look at it and understand what I'm trying to explain to you. |
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| 00:15.57 | sney | solrize: that might be a targeted initrd, some versions of the debian installer let you generate a smaller one with only the drivers for that machine's hardware. less portable, but less disk space |
| 00:16.15 | solrize | i see, that's possible. thanks |
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| 00:16.34 | solrize | it's the vm host's template i guess |
| 00:16.49 | sney | ah yeah, hosting providers sometimes do custom stuff as well. |
| 00:16.53 | solrize | also /boot on that system is 20gb |
| 00:17.08 | CyberManifest | sney: why can't I let apt-key remove the file/key in question with the '--keyring filename' option ? I.E. apt-key delete --keyring <filename> |
| 00:17.17 | solrize | anyway thanks for the help, bbl |
| 00:17.51 | sney | CyberManifest: you can, but "deprecated" means that feature will go away eventually, and since you don't already know how to do this, you may as well start with the new method. |
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| 00:18.11 | CyberManifest | sney: as will 'apt-key list' right... ? |
| 00:18.15 | CyberManifest | use it while I can |
| 00:18.57 | CyberManifest | sney: so let me get this straight, the new method involves the user rooting around their directories to remove files |
| 00:19.09 | sney | that's what the message says, yes |
| 00:19.30 | sney | they might add the functionality to apt(1) later or something. I'm not involved with development so I don't know |
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| 00:21.41 | GrayGhost | sney, wifi is now working thanks |
| 00:21.45 | sney | np |
| 00:22.15 | GrayGhost | Client: HexChat 2.14.2 ⢠OS: Debian 10.5 ⢠CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8550U CPU @ 1.80GHz (1.37GHz) ⢠Memory: Physical: 15.2 GiB Total (14.4 GiB Free) Swap: 17.3 GiB Total (17.3 GiB Free) ⢠Storage: 16.2 GB / 190.6 GB (174.4 GB Free) ⢠VGA: 8086:5917 @ 8086:5914 ⢠Uptime: 6m 4s |
| 00:22.40 | GrayGhost | sorry .. did not mean to flood tha chanel |
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| 00:23.19 | CyberManifest | sney according to apt-key list that key is shared with other keys and in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d it only shows the debian releases keys buster,jessie,stretch |
| 00:23.57 | sney | pastebin the output |
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| 00:24.04 | CyberManifest | do I open the file and remove it |
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| 00:25.50 | CyberManifest | sney: which file do I open because I'm on bullseye testing and it's not listed as an option, only buster, jessie, and stretch ? |
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| 00:28.08 | CyberManifest | sney: woah, can't open the file |
| 00:28.19 | CyberManifest | it's all giberish not a standard text file |
| 00:29.21 | CyberManifest | they say to Manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d but don't tell you how |
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| 00:30.26 | CyberManifest | https://termbin.com/pp17 |
| 00:30.37 | CyberManifest | that's in trusted.gpg.d |
| 00:30.57 | CyberManifest | apt-key list still shows spotify |
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| 01:09.43 | CyberManifest | sney: it turns out I needed to remove the key's hex with quotes "" |
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| 03:27.56 | rgr | I've a problem using chmod. when I "chmod 444 .bashrc" and then look at it, its actually 744 . Is this something to do with umask? |
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| 03:33.18 | nvz | rgr: umask is for creating files it has no bearing on manually changing their permissions |
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| 03:34.31 | rgr | thats what I thought. I cant turn off the w flag for myselfin this one directory. Its driving me potty. |
| 03:35.29 | rgr | (I'm auto generating certain config files from an emacs org master file and I want to make them readonly) |
| 03:35.56 | rgr | works fine in my home directory for example. |
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| 03:40.33 | rgr | hmm. seems to be because its through a symlink. |
| 03:40.56 | nvz | yes well symlinks dont have permissions |
| 03:41.06 | nvz | the permissions apply to the file they point to |
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| 03:58.32 | rgr | yes I know. but its not working as expected. "chmod 444 ~/file" is fine were file is a hard file and not a symlink. "chmod 444 ~/symlink/dotfiles/file" and its 644 not 444. Ditto "chmod 444 symlinkedfile" its still 644. |
| 04:00.12 | dvs | rgr, why would you want to change the permissions of a symlink? The permissions will ultimately take on the permissions of the real file. |
| 04:00.35 | rgr | I dont want to change the permissions of a symlink. You cant change the permissions of a symlink. |
| 04:00.56 | rgr | I am changing of a file *symlinked*. |
| 04:02.49 | rgr | I just tried a file and symlink in my home dir and that worked as expected. So its something to do with the directory my files are symlinked into. I shall google some more. |
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| 04:33.35 | Abdullah | debian uses dash as default shell. so which one I should learn? bash or dash? |
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| 04:37.35 | mason | Abdullah: For shell scripting, learn POSIX, which pretty much means Dash. It'll work on a range of shells. Avoid Bashisms, which won't. |
| 04:39.27 | epony | some variant of ksh |
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| 04:43.17 | mason | POSIX will work for ksh too. |
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| 05:42.53 | annadane | while at risk of running into https://xkcd.com/293/, is --recursive about the only option i need for copying my /home dir with rsync? |
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| 05:43.44 | annadane | i should probably just read the man page |
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| 05:54.12 | *** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.5 point release /msg dpkg 10.5; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Stretch has limited LTS support: /msg dpkg stretch-lts ; /msg dpkg 9.13 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 05:54.34 | annadane | ok, i'm doing this again; how can i remove the dot files with rm, rm -r doesn't work |
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| 05:55.48 | annadane | rm -rf /path/to/dir/.* i guess |
| 05:59.43 | GrayGhost | I am new to deb 10 gnome ... want to confighre the pannel |
| 06:00.28 | GrayGhost | instructions say alt plus right click ... does not work ? |
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| 06:03.03 | annadane | forget it, i'm just going to use grsync |
| 06:05.08 | annadane | hey look it's doing it properly. *rolls eyes* |
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| 06:11.08 | annadane | <PROTECTED> |
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| 06:21.23 | annadane | oh it's not recursively copying the directories... cool. :/ |
| 06:22.26 | annadane | unless it's going to fill them in later |
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| 06:31.54 | annadane | yeah it does, nvm |
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| 06:56.03 | shtrb | Would it be safe to restore grub2 from buster on a sid machine when the EFI vars get erased ? |
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| 07:03.12 | nkuttler | shtrb: nothing is safe when messing with grub, or sid |
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| 07:04.07 | Mikurynda | where is tftpd configuration file? |
| 07:04.57 | wuseman | in /etc/default i think |
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| 07:09.11 | Mikurynda | I don't see any file with "fpt" in the name in there |
| 07:09.15 | Mikurynda | ftp* |
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| 07:12.20 | wuseman | Ok |
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| 07:13.25 | Fox | tftpd is configured via inetd |
| 07:13.30 | shtrb | nkuttler, it would be rescuing sid after a problem |
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| 07:19.14 | shtrb | ,v grub-efi |
| 07:19.15 | judd | Package: grub-efi on amd64 -- jessie: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; jessie-security: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; stretch: 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u2; buster: 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u2; buster-security: 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u2; bullseye: 2.04-8; sid: 2.04-9 |
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| 07:50.35 | bauen1 | shtrb: rescuing a broken system using an older (but recent) version of grub shouln't be a problem |
| 07:50.44 | bauen1 | but you might want to go about it in a different way: |
| 07:51.38 | bauen1 | use the old grub (from usb or something) to load the kernel and initrd of the sid install, but stop at the initramfs and chroot into your root filesystem, then use what ever you need to fix grub (grub-install) |
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| 07:58.15 | shtrb | bauen1, oh , yes , that would be even better , right |
| 07:59.52 | shtrb | I think I could even just chroot from USB to a broken system and reinstall grub |
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| 08:00.42 | bauen1 | yeah that too (and is a lot easier) |
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| 08:06.59 | afidegnum | what do you suggest for a dummy/fake mail server wehere i can test mail deliveries and read them? |
| 08:07.16 | afidegnum | something simpler instead of installing postfix, courier etc... |
| 08:07.49 | bendem | mailhog |
| 08:08.16 | bendem | single binary, exposes smtp and a web interface to read them |
| 08:08.31 | afidegnum | ok, let me try it |
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| 08:16.48 | jelly | ,v mailhog |
| 08:16.49 | judd | No package named 'mailhog' was found in amd64. |
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| 08:18.07 | annadane | opens jelly's mail |
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| 08:23.12 | bendem | yeah, it's a go program, from what I remember, debian doesn't package go programs yet (or there was really complex problems with licensing) |
| 08:24.46 | jelly | it does, but typically there are build issues and lots of deps to be packaged first |
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| 08:56.47 | hramrach | hello |
| 08:57.13 | hramrach | after installing systemd I cano no longer run sshd because systemd listens on the ssh port |
| 08:57.18 | hramrach | can I disable that? |
| 08:57.37 | hramrach | I removed the ssh socket file but systemd still listens on ssh port |
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| 09:21.39 | jmcnaught | hramrach: how are you starting sshd? What error are you getting? |
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| 09:38.00 | jelly | hramrach, which debian release is this? Are you starting sshd in some other way than the default ssh service? |
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| 10:00.33 | hramrach | I am starting the ssh service. The error is that it cannot bind the address because it is in use, and it is systemd that uses the address |
| 10:00.39 | hramrach | it is Debian 10 |
| 10:01.35 | hramrach | I think the problem is after upgrade from Debian 9 because previously systemd was not needed |
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| 10:11.31 | aaro | hramrach: you didn't answer jmcnaught question "how are you starting sshd?" |
| 10:12.46 | in1t3r | guys issue with the NM and routes. |
| 10:13.26 | in1t3r | So routes showing up additional entry in routing table |
| 10:14.57 | in1t3r | I have configured nm to connect only on the static for the ap then I still have other being used and when checked on the router I have more connections there then from the static |
| 10:16.43 | hramrach | aaro: it was the very first thing I wrote in the reply .. |
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| 10:17.16 | bauen1 | hramrach: _how_ are you starting, are you running /usr/sbin/sshd as root, using sysv scripts or something else ? |
| 10:18.11 | aaro | hramrach: write the command you used to start the service |
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| 10:20.37 | jelly | hramrach, did you reboot after upgrading to Debian 10? |
| 10:21.53 | in1t3r | so checked the connections settings in the /etc/NetworkManager and they are normal checked the settings in the /var/lib/NetworkManager looks kinda normal but after stoping nm and doing a flush of routing table and of the cache once I start nm and connect again to ap its again adding additional entry into routing table. |
| 10:22.07 | jelly | hramrach, pastebin the output of "ps -fe |grep sshd" and "systemctl status ssh.service" and "systemctl status ssh.socket" |
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| 10:23.41 | jelly | hramrach, it vaguely sounds as if you have both ssh.socket and ssh.service enabled -- this is not a default config |
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| 10:25.44 | jelly | ssh.socket unit is disabled by default on our Debian 10 installations |
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| 10:29.56 | hramrach | jelly: I also had tinysshd, and both openssh and tinysshd install a socket - that does nothing until you have systemd |
| 10:30.09 | jelly | ,v tinysshd |
| 10:30.10 | judd | Package: tinysshd on amd64 -- bullseye: 20190101-1; buster: 20190101-1; sid: 20190101-1 |
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| 10:30.33 | hramrach | however, any attempt at disabling those sockets was futile |
| 10:30.43 | jelly | do you need tinysshd? |
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| 10:30.55 | hramrach | until I removed those files systemd would listen on ssh port |
| 10:31.31 | hramrach | no, I wantoed to try switching to tinysshd but never finished that |
| 10:31.53 | jelly | did "any attempt" include masking the problematic systemd units |
| 10:31.53 | hramrach | I removed tinysshd and the ssh socket file and now sshd can start |
| 10:32.36 | jelly | yeah, that might bite you afterwards, you shouldn't need to delete files from /lib |
| 10:32.54 | hramrach | I told systemd to disable the socket which seemed to do something but not stop it from listening on the port |
| 10:33.07 | hramrach | I installed an override so the file won't come back |
| 10:34.02 | jelly | oh well, if you fixed it, good |
| 10:34.29 | hramrach | thanks for help |
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| 10:41.43 | hramrach | is there some way to tell why is systemd listening on a port? |
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| 10:42.41 | hramrach | if it's a sepate daemon it's transparent but the systemd activation hides the service |
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| 11:30.49 | shtrb | [beginning of rant] For the next smartasss (me) , who think he is a though guy and think he can just use a buster debian-installer to fix grub on a sid machine (by chrooting and trying do apt-get install --resintall grub-efi; grub-install;, just bloody don't you must have the same kernel and you must first have a debian installer for testing and your host machine should have the same kernel to reinstall [/end of rant] |
| 11:31.28 | shtrb | lost 45 minutes to download a recent testing installer to fix a sid installation |
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| 11:33.13 | shtrb | bauen1, I should have listened to you to try to load a recent kernel and initrd, however It didn't click to me how I could load a recent kernel and initrd for a debian-installer |
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| 11:34.56 | shtrb|work | sorry for the rant |
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| 12:05.34 | j`ey | anyone know what the #44 is in the boot messages? "(gcc (Debian 8.3.0-6) 8.3.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Debian) 2.31.1) #44" |
| 12:07.18 | hwm4rgs | number of builds iirc |
| 12:07.56 | hwm4rgs | same as in uname -v right |
| 12:08.18 | j`ey | number of builds.. as in it's the 44th release of this kernel? |
| 12:08.57 | hwm4rgs | the kernel generating that message has had its source tree built 44 times |
| 12:09.10 | hwm4rgs | at least that's what i remember from my gentoo days |
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| 12:10.15 | shtrb | will apparmor warnings / errors have any effect on the freeze ? |
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| 12:19.05 | jj5 | are freenode.net and irc.debian.org the same IRC network? i.e. if I'm in #debian on freenode is that the same as #debian at irc.debian.org .. ? |
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| 12:20.34 | shtrb | jj5, no , it's oftc |
| 12:21.03 | shtrb | irc.debian.org == irc.oftc.net |
| 12:22.36 | jj5 | shtrb: excellent. thanks. |
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| 12:27.01 | dka | apt-get update return : N: Repository 'http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease' changed its 'Version' value from '10.4' to '10.5' |
| 12:27.04 | dka | any idea how to fix thios? |
| 12:27.31 | diogenes_ | dka, it's terminal error unfixable. |
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| 12:27.44 | dka | unfixable? |
| 12:27.57 | diogenes_ | dka, yep, no way to fix that :) |
| 12:28.06 | dka | it's linux bro |
| 12:28.16 | shtrb | not true |
| 12:28.31 | dka | I did sudo apt-get -y dist-upgrade |
| 12:28.33 | dka | I 'll see what happen |
| 12:29.05 | shtrb | that warning is normal and expected , because there had been a minor release upgrade we are at 10.5 |
| 12:29.40 | diogenes_ | shtrb, i was joking with him and i also thik the question was not serious. |
| 12:30.05 | shtrb | oh , sorry , I thought you had been serius |
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| 12:38.00 | dka | apt-get dist-upgrade product a lot of : sh: 0: getcwd() failed: Permission denied |
| 12:38.26 | dka | I did run : sudo apt-get -y dist-upgrade |
| 12:38.29 | dka | can i safely ignore? |
| 12:38.53 | dka | I did unmount my drive I was in meanwhile |
| 12:39.01 | dka | I didn't know it needed it to fullfill the command |
| 12:39.05 | dka | should I cancel and start over? |
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| 13:35.31 | shtrb | Does anyone have a clue what "debian : Aug 14 13:09:41 : root : problem with defaults entries ; TTY=tty1 ; PWD=/ ; USER=root " mean ? (got in my local e-mail box) |
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| 13:38.43 | petn-randall | shtrb: Is that a cron mail? The mail headers should provide more info. |
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| 13:40.28 | shtrb | I don't know what had created it, but the title is "*** SECURITY information for debian ***" (I guess pam ?) |
| 13:40.45 | petn-randall | Sound like sudo. |
| 13:40.49 | petn-randall | *sounds |
| 13:41.10 | shtrb | but I had never seen errors mentioning "problem with defaults" |
| 13:42.29 | shtrb | ducking around does point to sudo ,thanks |
| 13:44.35 | shtrb | I even tried to run sudo as user , and don't get that alert. |
| 13:48.21 | genr8_ | serious question: /usr/src/linux-headers-4.19.0-10-common/Makefile Line 6, NAME = "People's Front" |
| 13:48.45 | genr8_ | why is the name of a GeoPolitical Party in my Debian kernel and module makefiles ? |
| 13:48.46 | shtrb | ,v linux-headers-4.19 |
| 13:48.47 | judd | No package named 'linux-headers-4.19' was found in amd64. |
| 13:49.25 | genr8_ | linux-headers-4.19.0-10-common |
| 13:50.27 | shtrb | ,v linux-headers-4.19.0-10-common |
| 13:50.28 | judd | Package: linux-headers-4.19.0-10-common on amd64 -- buster: 4.19.132-1 |
| 13:51.23 | shtrb | genr8_, you should file a bug against it if you find that braking any Debian rule (like diversity , welcoming or DFSG rules) |
| 13:51.54 | shtrb | I'm not saying it go against any rule , just say if you belive it you should file a bug |
| 13:53.09 | genr8_ | If im going to be an unwitting pawn in a geopolitical game until I stumble upon this information by accident and researching what goes into my Kernel, I would like to know more about said party |
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| 13:53.38 | shtrb | There are several People's front out there |
| 13:53.45 | genr8_ | right |
| 13:54.35 | genr8_ | shouldnt Debian be the one to tell me what it means ? this is the opposite of inconsequential |
| 13:54.40 | shtrb | git log -S"People's front" might shed some light regarding that addition |
| 13:55.10 | shtrb | #debian is an irc channel , with many non DD who hangout here. you can ask offically ovr the mailing lists |
| 13:55.14 | themill | genr8_: lots of software releases get names. It's not like Debian is going to change them (or even look at them) |
| 13:57.07 | genr8_ | i get that its above most peoples paygrade but Im going to have to escalate this. the benefit of the doubt is not adequate in this day and age anymore |
| 13:57.39 | shtrb | try over mailing lists |
| 13:58.04 | themill | genr8_: there is nothing to see here. |
| 13:58.35 | genr8_ | your use of that phrase in this scenario raises red flags |
| 13:58.49 | themill | then spend 5s asking google |
| 13:58.57 | genr8_ | i just did man |
| 13:59.29 | themill | then try harder |
| 13:59.36 | themill | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_kernel_names |
| 13:59.38 | shtrb | genr8_, it's the offical name https://fossbytes.com/linux-kernel-4-19-released-linus-torvalds-back/, however if you belive that name go against DFSG or debian diversity please rise your voice at the mailiing list |
| 13:59.52 | shtrb | themill, I got his point 100% , please be more acceptive to other people views |
| 13:59.54 | themill | or don't |
| 14:00.14 | themill | shtrb: no really, there's nothing to see here. |
| 14:00.20 | genr8_ | ok so its Linux itself not Debian |
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| 14:00.40 | themill | there are no "views" to be had about a pair of random words for a codename that is varied in every single release |
| 14:01.00 | shtrb | themill, if he find it against debian rules he should raise his voice about it |
| 14:01.13 | themill | please don't waste everyone's time |
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| 14:01.35 | genr8_ | shtrb, youve been helpful, thank you. |
| 14:01.41 | genr8_ | themill is an opp. |
| 14:01.41 | themill | there are real problems to fix in the community and real technical bugs to fix |
| 14:03.09 | aaro | the name certainly stands out compared to the other ones like Psychotic Stoned Sheep :D |
| 14:03.34 | shtrb | themill, I would have agreed to you prior diversty and coc in debian |
| 14:04.48 | themill | shtrb: yeah, no. |
| 14:04.51 | shtrb | wasn't 4.19 linux kernel prior Linus torvald's forced vacation ? |
| 14:04.53 | genr8_ | i feel much better knowing its Torvalds authorized |
| 14:06.21 | genr8_ | we can drop it now since this clearly isnt the right venue for this discussion |
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| 14:09.04 | aaro | oh well it actually comes from a movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python%27s_Life_of_Brian#Plot |
| 14:09.37 | shtrb | genr8_, I think it wasn't Linus who authorized it :) but but rather the new leader who took over while Linus had been exiled |
| 14:09.53 | shtrb | hence the very fitting name |
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| 14:12.41 | genr8_ | on further analysis it seems its an inside joke at the expense of the actual CoC itself, which is ironic :P |
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| 14:16.02 | genr8_ | we can talk about something useful instead |
| 14:16.34 | genr8_ | like, "should I keep the 4.19 kernel or try and upgrade it to 5.something" ? |
| 14:18.01 | shtrb | 5 something have many issues , stick to buster |
| 14:18.23 | shtrb | 5.7 has many intellectually chalenged issues for iwlwifi for instance (solved in 5.8) , |
| 14:18.55 | genr8_ | i see those as too new personally, but for instance 5.4.58 is regarded as LongTerm |
| 14:19.24 | genr8_ | do we know enough about 5.4 being OK yet, or same story? |
| 14:19.41 | shtrb | ,v linux-image-5.4 |
| 14:19.42 | judd | No package named 'linux-image-5.4' was found in amd64. |
| 14:19.47 | shtrb | ,v linux-image-5.7 |
| 14:19.48 | judd | No package named 'linux-image-5.7' was found in amd64. |
| 14:20.19 | genr8_ | right, i'd have to build it myself. which then leads me to wonder if I would make a mistake and make things more problematic than doing nothing |
| 14:20.20 | shtrb | Well 5.7 exist in testing , but not 5.4 |
| 14:20.35 | shtrb | genr8_, you can pull it from backports |
| 14:20.49 | genr8_ | hmm ok i havent seen that yet |
| 14:20.53 | shtrb | ,v linux-image-5.7.0-2-amd64 |
| 14:20.54 | judd | Package: linux-image-5.7.0-2-amd64 on amd64 -- bullseye: 5.7.10-1; sid: 5.7.10-1 |
| 14:21.00 | jhutchins | ,kernels |
| 14:21.01 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.7.0-rc5-686 (5.7~rc5-1~exp1); sid: 5.7.0-2-686-pae (5.7.10-1); bullseye: 5.7.0-2-686-pae (5.7.10-1); buster-backports: 5.7.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.7.10-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-10-686 (4.19.132-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.10-686-pae (4.19.132-1~deb9u2); jessie-backports: |
| 14:21.02 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
| 14:21.50 | shtrb | thanks jhutchins , genr8_ you can see that 5.7 allready in backports |
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| 14:39.16 | b-04 | hi to all |
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| 14:39.33 | b-04 | debian 10 runs with ram memory non ecc ? |
| 14:39.42 | genr8_ | yes |
| 14:40.10 | b-04 | thanks |
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| 15:45.32 | Oberon4278 | Is amd64 appropriate for an Intel x64 processor? |
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| 15:46.32 | ax562 | yes |
| 15:47.11 | nevivurn | Oberon4278: yes, x86_64 == amd64 |
| 15:47.30 | ax562 | amd64 was the name given to x64 builds to throw some respect on AMD since they were first with the x64 arch |
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| 15:50.21 | Oberon4278 | Thank you. |
| 15:50.34 | oerheks | amd was the first with hybrid 32+64 bits, intel was the first with 64 bit. |
| 15:53.46 | genr8_ | nobody cares about Itanium |
| 15:54.22 | jrtc27 | oerheks is somewhat misrepresenting it |
| 15:54.27 | jrtc27 | and no, intel were not first to 64-bit |
| 15:54.36 | jrtc27 | DEC had their Alpha well before Intel had IA-64 |
| 15:55.51 | jrtc27 | (and MIPS had the R4k) |
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| 16:02.13 | Oberon4278 | I understand MIT's Lisp machines were ahead of their time as well ;-) |
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| 16:03.26 | Oberon4278 | So I'm installing Debian on an old Dell my dad has given me. I intend to use it for bioinformatics. It's only got 12 gigs of ram and 450 gigs of hard drive space. I think I may be setting myself up for failure here. |
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| 16:06.49 | genr8_ | your desire to learn and the availability to run whatever you can run will outweigh the lack of cutting edge hardware |
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| 16:07.26 | genr8_ | maybe he will buy you a new one if you convince him you made use of that one |
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| 16:08.37 | Oberon4278 | That's a very good point. |
| 16:08.41 | n4dir | bioinformatics do need much RAM? |
| 16:08.52 | Oberon4278 | It's not like I'm going to be doing serious work, it's just going to be learning. |
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| 16:09.37 | Oberon4278 | Honestly I'm not sure. I know the datasets can be quite large, but if that becomes a problem I can always use a SSD as swap space |
| 16:09.39 | genr8_ | theres enough programs it WILL run to learn plenty of stuff |
| 16:10.27 | n4dir | usually 12 gigs are anything but little. |
| 16:10.44 | Oberon4278 | I'm hoping that just having a home lab where I can demonstrate my chops, plus getting a Masters, will be enough to land me a decent job. |
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| 16:27.13 | uberushaximus | Hello, I'm trying to build wpa_supplicant 2.9 on ubuntu xenial, and I'm getting the following build error https://pastebin.com/raw/dHd6rWwj |
| 16:27.26 | uberushaximus | Config file is here http://ix.io/2u9Y |
| 16:27.57 | uberushaximus | Can someone tell me why -DCONFIG_DRIVER_MACSEC_LINUX -DCONFIG_DRIVER_MACSEC_QCA -DCONFIG_MACSEC is still being set? |
| 16:28.03 | uberushaximus | or where to look? |
| 16:28.44 | diogenes_ | uberushaximus, is this a joke? |
| 16:29.22 | uberushaximus | Not at all, I honestly have no idea why |
| 16:29.55 | uberushaximus | oh, negatives imply it is *not* set |
| 16:30.03 | diogenes_ | uberushaximus, because of 'ubuntu xenial' |
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| 16:30.04 | jmcnaught | uberushaximus: there's a #ubuntu channel that can help you, you're in the #debian channel which only supports Debian not derivatives. |
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| 16:31.30 | uberushaximus | I'll poke at them but as far as debian packaging goes, would the dpkg-buildpackage script look elsewhere to set those config flags? |
| 16:31.48 | uberushaximus | It's not obvious to me but the .config gets set as expected |
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| 16:38.21 | genr8_ | uberushaximus, its the way you're building it with ../src/ as the path |
| 16:38.32 | genr8_ | ../src/drivers/driver_macsec_linux.c:20:39: fatal error: netlink/route/link/macsec.h: No such file or directory |
| 16:38.54 | genr8_ | you need to build it from the correct top level directory so that it can find that path |
| 16:39.47 | genr8_ | Its coded into the code in such a way that ../src/ called from the command line does not translate to finding that path when it #includes inside the .C file itself |
| 16:41.19 | genr8_ | you might also be able to add -I ../src/drivers/ or -I ,,/src/ (most likely manually expanding the dots into full paths yourself) |
| 16:41.41 | genr8_ | its just how you're building it is a path problem |
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| 16:47.29 | ax562 | Curious to what's your thoughts on systemd? |
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| 16:48.41 | sney | ax562: that topic often devolves into stupidity, so unless there's a specific usage question along with it, better not. |
| 16:49.29 | ax562 | sney what do you think of sytemd? |
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| 16:50.26 | sney | I use it, it works. it's no more or less intuitive or transparent than any of the other init systems I've used over the decades. |
| 16:51.09 | ax562 | word |
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| 17:10.54 | n4dir | as far i have followed the main issues people had was not with it being intuitive as an init system, but doing all kind of things init systems didn't do before. one thing and well and such. Else: doesn't matter what i think of it. It is there and won't go away soon. Either BSD variant or one of the rather small distros. |
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| 18:13.28 | Mrbuck | how do I download mysql latest version in debian |
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| 18:15.21 | jelly | Mrbuck, you'd have to get it from mysql.com, but typically you do not typically need "latest" mysql server or client without a good reason |
| 18:15.53 | jelly | so do you have a good technical reason, Mrbuck, and what is it |
| 18:16.16 | Mrbuck | jelly: been using postgresql and suddenly mysql website tiring me as it got so much enterprice things |
| 18:16.20 | greycat | Also, is there a specific reason that you want the increasingly proprietary MySQL rather than Mariadb? |
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| 18:20.22 | Mrbuck | greycat: I need it temporarily one time use |
| 18:20.48 | greycat | well then you go to mysql.com and follow their instructions |
| 18:22.04 | jelly | Mrbuck, if some other app, service or tool says it needs mysql, and the docs are older thana year or two, it is very likely to work with mariadb-server instead |
| 18:23.03 | Mrbuck | jelly: ok I will try thank you |
| 18:23.33 | jelly | "latest mysql" is a rather unusual tech requirement |
| 18:24.06 | Mrbuck | jelly: could be I just asked because there could be any secuirty vulnerabilities in older versions right? |
| 18:24.44 | greycat | Debian doesn't even *ship* mysql in its current release. They switched to Mariadb. The Debian security team keeps it patched. |
| 18:25.17 | Mrbuck | greycat: ok |
| 18:26.11 | jelly | Mrbuck, which is why I specifically asked which _tech_ reason you have; maybe it's a good reason and you really need mysql.com; maybe it's not and installing default-mysql-server from debian will be enough |
| 18:26.26 | jelly | ,v default-mysql-server |
| 18:26.27 | judd | Package: default-mysql-server on amd64 -- stretch: 1.0.2; bullseye: 1.0.5; buster: 1.0.5; sid: 1.0.5 |
| 18:26.36 | jelly | ,depends default-mysql-server |
| 18:26.37 | judd | Package default-mysql-server in buster/amd64 -- depends: mariadb-server-10.3. |
| 18:27.25 | jelly | so, when you ask debian to install "default-mysql-server", you actually get a supported build of mariadb-server 10.3 branch |
| 18:27.47 | Mrbuck | jelly: thanks a lot i got clear idea now |
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| 18:32.58 | melissa_ | If I have a Debian Testing installation and I don't touch it for, say, 5 years, then do a system upgrade, is there a risk that it will break? Bigger or smaller than upgrading from, say, Jessie to Buster? I want a system that is as little maintenance as possible once installed. |
| 18:33.07 | Mrbuck | installation docs on mariadb can help illeterates that helps |
| 18:34.03 | tds | melissa_: latest stable (ie buster) probably makes more sense for that |
| 18:35.08 | greycat | Yes, there is a chance that testing untouched for 5 years could break, because there could have been 2 releases in between. |
| 18:35.39 | jelly | melissa_, question 1) yes, at that point you'd better do a release upgrade to the next closest actual release, then keep doing release upgrades until the latest stable, then upgrade to whatever the current testing would be |
| 18:35.42 | greycat | Your best bet would be to figure out *when* you last touched it, and what that timeline's testing became (say, jessie), upgrade to that release, then go one release at a time from there. |
| 18:36.00 | melissa_ | What makes you say that? I ask because I found it a bit too much effort to upgrade from Jessie to Buster. I had to run 3 cycles of apt-get update, upgrade, dist-upgrade, in addition to do a lot of reading. |
| 18:36.20 | greycat | Or you can wipe it and reinstall. |
| 18:36.36 | jelly | melissa_, what you did there, is, in fact, the least amount of effort |
| 18:37.15 | jelly | or keep upgrading your testing or unstable install fairly often and fix things as they break |
| 18:38.09 | tds | i mean, least amount of effort would probably be putting stable rather than a specific release in your sources.list, and enabling unattended upgrades :D |
| 18:38.29 | tds | you're rather likely to get a broken box one day though ;) |
| 18:38.32 | melissa_ | I see. I've had this problem with Arch in the best and hoped that it'd be more stable on Debian. But I suppose this problem is inherent to rolling release? |
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| 18:40.04 | jelly | tds, no, that will break things horribly |
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| 18:41.27 | jelly | unless unatttended-upgrades has gotten some serious magic in it |
| 18:41.59 | melissa_ | I know this is #debian and all, but would you guys agree then that Trisquel LTS is a more attractive solution for me? |
| 18:42.09 | jelly | melissa_, you can keep using jessie for up to 5 years or so, but will need to do some release upgrades at some point |
| 18:42.51 | melissa_ | what about security updates? |
| 18:43.05 | greycat | !jessie-lts |
| 18:43.05 | dpkg | Security support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures received additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until June 30, 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total. jessie-lts is no longer supported. Ask me about <jessie->stretch> and <stretch->buster>. See https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information |
| 18:43.18 | tds | jelly: oh, ignoring everything else, i suppose apt will get grumpy when the release changes |
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| 18:43.31 | jelly | melissa_, 5 years of them if you only use the packages from the LTS set |
| 18:43.37 | greycat | You can change sources.list to the one on the wiki for the archived releases. |
| 18:43.55 | greycat | Jessie's 5 years are already finished. |
| 18:44.36 | jelly | buster still has about 2 years of Debian Security Team support, and about 2 years of LTS after that probably |
| 18:44.59 | jelly | and if you're rich you can pay for ELTS to get even longer support |
| 18:45.44 | greycat | Did jessie get an ELTS? I haven't heard of it yet. Wheezy was the first, and possibly only one.... |
| 18:46.17 | greycat | Hmm, google gave me https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended which seems to say "yes, it did". |
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| 18:47.09 | jelly | it did. |
| 18:48.02 | jelly | there's a fixed price of about 4kEUR for LTS support per year, and a variable price depending on how many packages you need supported and actually need to be worked on |
| 18:48.36 | jelly | variable price for ELTS, that is |
| 18:51.24 | melissa_ | that's pretty cool |
| 18:52.55 | jelly | it's also "too complicated" for my $work to pay. I'll have to convince them that upgrading a hundred jessie machines also costs money... |
| 18:53.39 | greycat | You "have to" do the upgrade in a couple years anyway, so paying for ELTS is just postponing the upgrade cost. |
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| 18:54.02 | jelly | "or wipe and reinstall" |
| 18:54.23 | jelly | and reinstalling every 7 years is perhaps less painful than every 5 years |
| 18:55.21 | jelly | that said. I found a lenny system in production. Internet facing. |
| 18:55.51 | greycat | only one? :) |
| 18:56.07 | jelly | noone cared until Firefox started refusing TLS1.0 connections |
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| 19:51.36 | angrynapkin | Im not sure if this is the proper place to ask, but I am running a raspberry pi version of debian lite. I wanted a clean install, but I am trying to get my usb web cam streaming to a browser similar to how the octopi raspberry pi image does. I cannot seem to find a decent how-to to get a usb cam to stream its video. I am hoping the pi version of debian is similar enough to a full disto. |
| 19:54.48 | greycat | !lite |
| 19:54.48 | dpkg | Linux Lite is a distribution based on <ubuntu> and Debian. It is not supported in #debian -- please ask questions on their IRC channel, #linuxdistrocommunity on irc.freenode.net, or forums at http://www.linuxdistrocommunity.com/forums/ . Ask me about <based on debian>. |
| 19:54.51 | greycat | Is that what you're using? |
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| 19:56.06 | angrynapkin | https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspberry-pi-os/ this is what I am running |
| 19:56.18 | angrynapkin | says its based on debian buster |
| 19:57.01 | tomreyn | you mentioned "debian lite", though? |
| 19:57.20 | tomreyn | !raspbian |
| 19:57.21 | dpkg | Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. https://www.raspbian.org/ |
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| 19:57.55 | angrynapkin | Sorry, I must be confusing the terms. It says Raspberry Pi OS Lite. |
| 19:58.20 | tomreyn | which was formerly known as "Raspbian", i.e. see above. |
| 19:58.41 | greycat | They changed the name of Raspbian? Geez. |
| 19:58.54 | greycat | Looks like #raspbian still exists, at least. |
| 20:01.35 | angrynapkin | greycat: Ok, thanks. Ill check that channel out. Not sure why, raspberry channel never even occurred to me, lol |
| 20:02.35 | sney | never underestimate the rpi foundation's ability to give new users confusing/misleading information |
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| 20:03.00 | sney | maybe they think it stimulates problem-solving skills. :P |
| 20:03.45 | greycat | well, they're clearly in some sort of transitional state. there's https://www.raspbian.org/ and also https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/raspbian/ with the latter talking about the new OS name, but still having the old OS in its URL |
| 20:03.55 | angrynapkin | So how much of a difference is there between raspberry pi and debian? |
| 20:04.32 | jelly | we don't know |
| 20:05.31 | angrynapkin | Maybe I should have asked....what makes debian debian? Actually, I never really thought about it, but what makes all these distros different? Is it just default installed packages? |
| 20:05.40 | sney | it's only *supposed* to be a rebuild for the original rpi cpu, with some extra stuff to support the pi bootloader, but we don't and can't keep track of any other modifications they may have made |
| 20:07.04 | greycat | A debian package is created by a debian developer, using upstream's original source code, together with the package maintainer's hand-written config files, collected patches, etc. |
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| 20:07.34 | greycat | In some cases, a package may be have almost no changes from upstream. In other cases, a huge amount of work has been done. |
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| 20:08.27 | greycat | Most of the derivative distros try to take as many shortcuts as possible, doing very little work of their own, and then punting all their users to #debian for "support". |
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| 20:12.07 | angrynapkin | I can see how that can be frustrating dealing with many requests from non debian users. |
| 20:14.42 | EdePopede | especially if they just don't get it (or don't want to get it) that their derivate just isn't debian and noone here is expected to know what they did to maybe break something that works ootb on debian. |
| 20:15.11 | notahackerlol | no one reads the man page anymore |
| 20:15.25 | notahackerlol | people just expect the answers to be given to them with a quick google search :p |
| 20:15.43 | greycat | Raspbian is actually one of the better derivatives, as far as I can tell, except that they went out of their way to confuse people in the past by calling their thing "Raspbian Debian buster" or something. But with the name change maybe they've decided to clean things up. |
| 20:16.30 | EdePopede | really sounds like a buster flavour just adapted to run on that hardware |
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| 20:16.50 | greycat | notahackerlol: to be fair, most man pages are *awful* at explaining how to do common things. They often don't even have basic examples. |
| 20:17.27 | EdePopede | maybe it would help answering to these folks in old germanic, after all modern english evolutioned from it, right? :) |
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| 20:21.43 | angrynapkin | I agree on the man pages sometimes being difficult to understand. At times it is easier to do a google search and see an example. |
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| 21:56.56 | oxek | what's happening with the chromium package? It is out of date for a month now, with known security issues. |
| 21:57.06 | oxek | I can |
| 21:57.15 | oxek | I can't find any info about it on https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/chromium |
| 22:02.11 | sney | are any of the security issues you're thinking of listed in https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/c/chromium/changelog-83.0.4103.116-1deb10u3 ? |
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| 22:02.45 | notahackerlol | >chromium |
| 22:02.53 | sney | the ~deb10u* version string indicates that patches were added, in this case it looks like a lot of security fixes in deb10u1 |
| 22:03.48 | notahackerlol | chromium tho |
| 22:03.48 | oxek | sney: no they are not |
| 22:04.24 | sney | notahackerlol: #debian is a support channel, if you don't have anything support-related to contribute please chat somewhere else |
| 22:04.26 | oxek | I see they are fixed in debian-experimental though https://tracker.debian.org/news/1166704/accepted-chromium-8404147105-1-source-into-experimental/ |
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| 22:05.25 | sney | oxek: hm, have you checked open bugs for any of the issues you're thinking of? there may be a message from the maintainer explaining what's going on |
| 22:05.58 | oxek | sney: I'm still struggling with navigating the tracker.d.o page. Is there a link to the mailing list on it? |
| 22:06.43 | sney | bugs are listed in the upper-right panel, click any of those numbers to be taken to the list |
| 22:07.18 | oxek | ah, I see it now |
| 22:07.22 | oxek | thanks |
| 22:07.32 | sney | it might also be related to this message about chromium still depending on python2 |
| 22:07.38 | sney | https://qa.debian.org/dose/debcheck/src_unstable_main/latest/packages/chromium.html#1844c066005454a8fa12cd754886dfc9 |
| 22:09.32 | oxek | that bug is from oct 2019 |
| 22:09.43 | oxek | there have been many updates of chromium since then |
| 22:10.02 | sney | what bug? the panel says there are 50 |
| 22:10.11 | oxek | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=942962 |
| 22:10.12 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/942962 in src:chromium (forwarded, sid, bullseye, help): «chromium: Python2 removal in sid/bullseye»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-10-23; last modified: 2020-06-19. |
| 22:10.56 | oxek | it shouldn't affect stable though, python2 is scheduled to be removed only in bullseye, no? |
| 22:10.58 | sney | just because it's been known for a long time that we were getting rid of python2 doesn't mean that everyone was on top of it, unfortunately |
| 22:11.15 | sney | python2 has already been removed in bullseye and sid. so any source packages that still rely on it can't build. |
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| 22:13.59 | sney | new versions of packages are always built and uploaded to sid before they go anywhere else. there may be some rare exceptions but this is the policy. |
| 22:14.33 | oxek | I see, I understand that |
| 22:14.38 | oxek | that would certainly affect chromium |
| 22:15.06 | oxek | does that mean that chromium is essentially abandoned on debian until google fixes python2 dependency? |
| 22:15.24 | sney | not abandoned since it still has a maintainer, but definitely stuck |
| 22:15.37 | oxek | yeah, my english is not best, sorry |
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| 22:17.43 | sney | I'm surprised that a project with google money is this far behind on a transition that everyone knew was coming, but I guess anything's possible. hopefully the patches are coming soon. |
| 22:18.40 | oxek | I think google is committed to supporting python2 on their own for a while |
| 22:19.12 | oxek | until 2023, if I can find the link |
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| 22:22.19 | sney | makes a face |
| 22:23.08 | sney | mozilla layoffs, now this, are we even going to have browsers a year from now? /ot |
| 22:23.22 | oxek | makes sense, they probably have lots of python2 code internally, so they need to support it internally |
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| 22:31.11 | oxek | yeah I can't find that info, maybe I am wrong and am thinking of some other big player committing to supporting python2 internally for a while |
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| 23:20.13 | donofrio | anyone know what server/channel HypriotOS lives? want to see if flash --config will allow static ip setting on my rpi (https://www.tinyurl.com/donofriovines/photos/tech/turing-pi-adventure) that I'm setting up. the console doesn't seem to have a working keyboard (dunno why) |
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