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| 01:29.11 | xlirate | What is the Chanel and server for sid help? I remember that it isn't here |
| 01:29.55 | nvz | xlirate: irc.debian.org ( irc.oftc.net ) #debian-next |
| 01:30.52 | xlirate | Thankyou. My networking died, I am stuck on a cellphone. Is there a webchat link that I can use? |
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| 01:32.27 | nvz | hmm.. |
| 01:32.46 | Unit193 | irc.oftc.net will verify with TLS, irc.debian.org won't. |
| 01:33.02 | nvz | xlirate: oftc.net seems to have such a thing I guess |
| 01:33.41 | nvz | xlirate: when I went to the website it has a box for a nickname, channel, and a chat button.. so I'd assume there is a built in client on the site |
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| 02:59.22 | jak2000 | hi all |
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| 03:00.37 | jak2000 | if i do: tar -czvf /home/jak/ftp/fie.tar.gz * i get this error: -bash: /bin/tar: Argument list too long then how to do something: tar -czvf /home/jak/ftp/fie.tar.gz A-L* files tat start with A or B o C .. L ? |
| 03:02.34 | somiaj | jak2000: why not just tar the directory you are in, so instead of *, just use ./ |
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| 03:04.48 | jak2000 | testing |
| 03:05.02 | dvs | !test |
| 03:05.02 | dpkg | Test failed. |
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| 03:15.53 | jak2000 | done |
| 03:15.55 | jak2000 | thanks |
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| 03:30.56 | un214 | How do I set my default browser to /usr/local/bin/firefox so that when I click on a link in another GUI program it uses that as the browser? |
| 03:31.11 | un214 | Default browser is currently set to something nonsensical |
| 03:37.34 | oerheks | bing + debian set standard browser gives https://wiki.debian.org/DefaultWebBrowser |
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| 03:47.47 | un214 | oerheks: update-alternatives gets upset when trying to feed it the correct path |
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| 06:17.39 | afidegnum | i want to update the hardware clock but this command doesn't correct the current time: ntpdate uk.pool.ntp.org whats the correct command? |
| 06:20.57 | nickotheus | afidegnum, UTC is not local time ;) |
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| 06:21.29 | nickotheus | afidegnum, you'll need to either fix it in your BIOS or your OS to use one or the other local or UTC |
| 06:22.03 | afidegnum | well, the system is already on, i want to fix the time from the OS and update to the hardware |
| 06:22.03 | beardy | !hwclock |
| 06:22.04 | dpkg | [hwclock] a tool used to set your hardware clock. it's packaged. in package util-linux |
| 06:22.56 | beardy | afidegnum: You want the option --systohc, check the manual. |
| 06:23.40 | afidegnum | hwclock --systohc didn't update the time, how do i set the time first before updating? |
| 06:24.37 | beardy | afidegnum: With ntpdate, like you tried, if you picked a working server it will update your system time. |
| 06:24.54 | afidegnum | ok, can you please suggest a working serve ? |
| 06:24.58 | afidegnum | server |
| 06:26.07 | afidegnum | this did not update, ntpdate uk.pool.ntp.org |
| 06:27.48 | beardy | afidegnum: That's odd, it should. Did you run it as root? |
| 06:28.06 | afidegnum | yes |
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| 06:29.43 | nickotheus | !!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEBIAN !!! Cheers |
| 06:29.57 | nickotheus | oh wait the time is tomorrow ... |
| 06:30.00 | nickotheus | sorry about that |
| 06:30.48 | beardy | afidegnum: Install an ntp daemon instead. Is your clock way off? |
| 06:30.53 | beardy | !ntp |
| 06:30.53 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, ntp is The Network Time Protocol (NTP) is used to synchronize the clocks of computer systems over a network. "aptitude install ntp" is enough to get going and synchronise your clock using the default ntp pool. http://wiki.debian.org/NTP See also <systemd-timesyncd>, <set time>, <pool.ntp> |
| 06:31.12 | afidegnum | yes, way off |
| 06:31.38 | beardy | ntpdate usually handles it, IIRC, but perhaps set your time roughly with 'date --set' first. |
| 06:31.42 | nickotheus | afidegnum, by 5 hours? |
| 06:32.04 | afidegnum | no, by 5 mins, and i have SSL issue with ti |
| 06:32.05 | afidegnum | it |
| 06:32.27 | nickotheus | ah, nvm then |
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| 06:32.56 | beardy | afidegnum: But, try just pool.ntp.org instead of uk? |
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| 06:34.14 | afidegnum | i wish i could ignore but ok, i think something is popping up, sudo ntpq -p returns connection refused |
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| 06:34.19 | afidegnum | what port do i need to activate ? |
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| 06:34.52 | beardy | You firewall localhost? |
| 06:35.03 | afidegnum | no i didn't |
| 06:35.51 | mad_monk | On debian 10 buster - i wish to install linux-headers-4.19.0-5-amd64 , however I see only linux-headers-4.19.0-10-amd64 |
| 06:36.26 | mad_monk | However, if i explore http://ftp.ru.debian.org/debian/pool/main/l/linux-latest/ i can see 19.0-5 |
| 06:36.37 | mad_monk | How can i install linux-headers-4.19.0-5-amd64? |
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| 06:37.55 | jelly | dpkg, tell mad_monk about snapshot |
| 06:38.03 | beardy | afidegnum: ntp 123/udp # Network Time Protocol |
| 06:38.39 | jelly | ,kernels |
| 06:38.40 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.7.0-rc5-686 (5.7~rc5-1~exp1); sid: 5.7.0-2-686-pae (5.7.10-1); bullseye: 5.7.0-2-686-pae (5.7.10-1); buster-backports: 5.7.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.7.10-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-10-686 (4.19.132-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.10-686-pae (4.19.132-1~deb9u2); jessie-backports: |
| 06:38.41 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
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| 06:39.14 | beardy | afidegnum: That is if you are blocking outgoing? "Connection refused" sounds odd though. |
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| 06:39.54 | afidegnum | it's strange i'm having that. i haven't had my firewall active |
| 06:40.52 | afidegnum | beardy: what else do you suggest apart from using ntp to set the time ? |
| 06:40.57 | afidegnum | setting the time manually |
| 06:41.58 | beardy | afidegnum: That, yes, setting it manually, and setting your RTC. |
| 06:42.22 | afidegnum | what's the command? |
| 06:42.25 | beardy | afidegnum: 'date --set' like I said above. |
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| 06:46.35 | afidegnum | sudo date +%T -s "06:45:00" and sudo hwclock --systohc didn't fix the time, this is strange, |
| 06:46.57 | afidegnum | i'm reluctant of shutting down the system and fix from the bios |
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| 08:59.56 | mirrorbird | is there a way to get the estimated space requirements needed to install a package (including its dependencies)? for example, i just ran apt install golang, and it said, "will use 333[ish]MB". i would like to compile a comparison of some related packages+dependencies to see how much space they all require |
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| 09:03.32 | oxek | Which package will download the linux kernel? linux-image-amd64? and what is the equivalent package for x86? |
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| 09:09.27 | mebus | linux-image-i686 ? |
| 09:09.38 | fireba11 | oxek: there are several meta packages for the kernel ... |
| 09:10.10 | oxek | mebus: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=linux-image-i686&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all |
| 09:10.18 | oxek | no results |
| 09:10.48 | oxek | fireba11: I'm looking for the typical metapackage that debian pulls in. |
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| 09:11.12 | mebus | oxek: then I don't know |
| 09:11.39 | mebus | maybe you cannot install it on a amd64 system by default |
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| 09:12.37 | oxek | mebus: the package search is set for all architectures |
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| 09:14.22 | oxek | I think I found it. Is it possibly linux-image-686 ? |
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| 09:17.41 | fireba11 | sounds about right |
| 09:17.54 | fireba11 | haven't used anything except amd64 for years ;-) |
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| 09:18.24 | oxek | same here. That's why I thought it would be i386 or i686 or something like that, not just 686 |
| 09:18.28 | EdePopede | ,v linux-image-amd64 |
| 09:18.29 | judd | Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u7; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u5; buster-backports: 5.7.10-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.7.10-1; sid: 5.7.10-1 |
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| 09:18.46 | EdePopede | afaik i686 is a voice from the past, no more intel vs amd these days |
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| 09:19.10 | oxek | I thought the 'i' was for 'instruction' |
| 09:19.18 | EdePopede | `apt-cache search linux-image` is a good starter |
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| 09:19.40 | oxek | yeah, I ended up using the commandline for searching, instead of the web interface |
| 09:19.41 | EdePopede | no, the i ALWAYS is apple ;) |
| 09:19.53 | oxek | apple? |
| 09:20.09 | EdePopede | iMac et.al. |
| 09:20.12 | oxek | oh, that apple |
| 09:20.17 | EdePopede | iSpy :) |
| 09:20.37 | oxek | iSpy is an actual product, not from apple though |
| 09:20.41 | oxek | I'm using it |
| 09:20.49 | EdePopede | iSpy with my little eye... don't forget to cover the built-in lens :P |
| 09:20.56 | EdePopede | oops |
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| 09:21.39 | EdePopede | "i spy with my little eye something that starts with a B." â Baldrick |
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| 09:38.36 | oxek | I was wrong, the proper package I was looking for is linux-image-686-pae not linux-image-686 |
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| 12:37.55 | torchinz | hello guys. I am on Debian Buster and am trying to install the driver for graphics card. The issue is, I have an Intel Graphics Card and a GeForce 950m. I could not figure out the method online |
| 12:38.44 | torchinz | the sysinfo is showing Graphics Card as Intel HD 530 |
| 12:38.48 | torchinz | only |
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| 12:42.28 | diogenes_ | torchinz, run: lspci -k | grep -i --color -A 2 'vga\|3d\|2d' | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 12:42.31 | diogenes_ | share the url. |
| 12:42.40 | torchinz | ok, wait |
| 12:43.11 | diogenes_ | torchinz, this one is better: lspci -k | grep -i --color -A 3 'vga\|3d\|2d' | nc termbin.com 9999 |
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| 12:44.00 | torchinz | tried it with the last one: https://termbin.com/6f4d5 |
| 12:44.48 | diogenes_ | torchinz, it's nvidia optimus so what guide have you followed? |
| 12:45.31 | torchinz | I was reading the one here: https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers |
| 12:46.04 | diogenes_ | torchinz, this is the one for optimus cards (intel+nvidia): https://wiki.debian.org/Bumblebee |
| 12:46.54 | torchinz | Question diogenes_ the first line in the guide says that it will use Nvidia for rendering and will display using the Intel driver. |
| 12:47.12 | torchinz | My nVidia card has a 4GB memory, how would Bumblebee use it? |
| 12:47.42 | torchinz | Because the Intel HD 530 will be having 128/256 MB only |
| 12:48.36 | diogenes_ | torchinz, so far, on Debian, optimus cards are being used as follows: intel as the main card for all the main stuff, nvidia only used for heavy graphics demanding applications like games. |
| 12:48.51 | torchinz | and the switch is automatic? |
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| 12:49.30 | diogenes_ | automatic switch is very experimental and only in driver versions 440+ and only on some bleeding aege Distros. |
| 12:49.33 | torchinz | can I configure application to use nvidia? For example, can I force Virtualbox to use the nvidia GPU and not intel, on debian? |
| 12:50.07 | diogenes_ | torchinz, you can for eny application to use nvidia by simply running it with optirun, e.g: optirun steam |
| 12:50.17 | diogenes_ | any* |
| 12:50.18 | torchinz | ah! |
| 12:50.41 | torchinz | Let me try to install bumblebee-nvidia primus and will get back |
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| 12:51.23 | diogenes_ | torchinz, you can even create applications shurcuts with Exec=optirun appname and whenever you lounch them, they open with dedicated graphics. |
| 12:51.44 | diogenes_ | i'd suggest you firs uninstall and purge your current nvidia installation and only then proceed with bumblebee. |
| 12:51.49 | diogenes_ | first* |
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| 12:52.08 | torchinz | diogenes_, I have encountered a step where I have been stuck before the "nvidia-installer --uninstall? |
| 12:52.23 | torchinz | a couple of days ago, i was here regarding the same |
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| 12:52.39 | diogenes_ | something like: sudo apt purge nvidia* |
| 12:52.48 | torchinz | okay |
| 12:53.51 | torchinz | I ran it, it came back :( |
| 12:54.07 | diogenes_ | what came back? |
| 12:54.10 | torchinz | the terminal screen said that there was an nvidia folder that was not empty |
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| 12:54.19 | torchinz | and hence, the purge option did not remove it |
| 12:54.40 | diogenes_ | no problem with that, but the main packages were removed? |
| 12:54.48 | diogenes_ | apt list --installed | grep -i nvidia |
| 12:55.08 | torchinz | I re-ran the purge option, nothing showed up. However, as soon as I ran "sudo apt-get install bumblebee-nvidia primus", the nvidia-installer uninstall?" window came back |
| 12:55.32 | diogenes_ | then run nvidia-installer uninstall |
| 12:56.26 | diogenes_ | i haven't dealed with nvidia in quite some time because i use the default nouveau driver with nvidia optimus and it works quite nicely for my use case. |
| 12:57.23 | torchinz | I got this message that I have dreaded before |
| 12:57.26 | torchinz | "If you plan to no longer use the NVIDIA driver, you should make sure that no X screens are configured to use the NVIDIA X driver in your X configuration |
| 12:57.27 | torchinz | file. If you used nvidia-xconfig to configure X, it may have created a backup of your original configuration. Would you like to run `nvidia-xconfig |
| 12:57.27 | torchinz | --restore-original-backup` to attempt restoration of the original X configuration file? |
| 12:57.27 | torchinz | <PROTECTED> |
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| 12:57.53 | torchinz | sorry diogenes_ got kicked |
| 12:58.08 | diogenes_ | !tell torchinz about pastebin |
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| 12:59.25 | torchinz | sorry: https://pastebin.com/1Xdc4B58 |
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| 13:00.09 | torchinz | I have encountered this before and literally nothing happens when I hit N, or No, or Y, or Yes. |
| 13:00.49 | diogenes_ | torchinz, apt list --installed | grep -i nvidia | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 13:00.51 | diogenes_ | share the url. |
| 13:01.28 | torchinz | https://termbin.com/ccn6 |
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| 13:02.06 | torchinz | FYI: sudo apt-get autoremove removes it and as soon as I start the bumblebee installation, this weird thing pops up again |
| 13:02.18 | diogenes_ | sudo apt purge nvidia-installer-cleanup |
| 13:02.26 | diogenes_ | sudo apt autoremove |
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| 13:02.58 | diogenes_ | then run: ls /etc/X11 | nc termbin.com 9999 |
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| 13:03.59 | torchinz | damn, now I am stuck at this: https://pastebin.com/P8sPwbF8 |
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| 13:04.40 | torchinz | diogenes_, should I reboot? |
| 13:04.44 | diogenes_ | torchinz, because most likely you've got either synaptic opened or in another terminal some commands still run. |
| 13:05.28 | torchinz | diogenes_, I closed the previous terminal (where I was getting the nvidia-installer message) as the Yes/No thing didn't work |
| 13:05.48 | diogenes_ | now try again the command. |
| 13:06.36 | torchinz | same error. as you said, it seems stuck. should I reboot? |
| 13:07.00 | diogenes_ | torchinz, before you reboot, run: ls /etc/X11 | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 13:07.12 | diogenes_ | let's see if there isn't any leftover configs. |
| 13:07.50 | torchinz | https://termbin.com/0a2a |
| 13:09.06 | diogenes_ | torchinz, looks good but for any enevtuality, be ready and prepared that you might get a black screen after you reboot and if you don't know how to troubleshoot, you might end up reinstalling the system, so keep and installation USB drive nearby. |
| 13:09.25 | torchinz | oh |
| 13:09.37 | torchinz | should I reboot now? |
| 13:09.42 | diogenes_ | yes |
| 13:09.54 | torchinz | okay. brb (hopefully!) |
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| 13:14.07 | torchinz | hey diogenes_ , i am back. no black screen so far |
| 13:14.33 | diogenes_ | torchinz, that's great, now try the command again. |
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| 13:17.05 | torchinz | https://pastebin.com/jtm3Uj2m |
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| 13:18.07 | diogenes_ | torchinz, ls /usr/lib/nvidia | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 13:18.48 | torchinz | https://termbin.com/6taw |
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| 13:19.21 | diogenes_ | torchinz, sudo mv /usr/lib/nvidia ~/Documents |
| 13:19.48 | torchinz | done |
| 13:19.56 | diogenes_ | and to make sure all is well, run: lspci -k | grep -i --color -A 3 'vga\|3d\|2d' | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 13:20.28 | torchinz | https://termbin.com/rlqq |
| 13:22.04 | diogenes_ | nvidia modules are still there, that's weird but ok, try the bumblebee guide and we'll see if that works. |
| 13:22.47 | diogenes_ | i've got to go now so maybe someone could assist you further on, if not then come again in a few hours, good luck. |
| 13:23.28 | torchinz | thanks for the help so far, dionysus69 |
| 13:23.36 | torchinz | diogenes_, thanks |
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| 13:30.46 | shtrb | what does "Bad_Blk_Ct_Erl/Lat' mean in smart report ? |
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| 13:47.56 | davis | hello, I have a debian box which I do not run ssh agent in my .bashrc. It caches my git ssh key. I have another debian box which runs the same OS version but its a new install. It does not. Before I add the ssh key agent to the new box, any idea how my old box does this automatically? |
| 13:48.29 | davis | on the new box, it will pop up an xwindow dialog askig me to confirm my passphrase if that helps. |
| 13:48.45 | bauen1 | davis: perhaps systemds or x11 startup is launching ssh-agent |
| 13:48.51 | bauen1 | *systemds --user instance |
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| 13:50.40 | davis | bauen1: I have an entry in ps list which shows ssh-agent with param gnome-session. Is it builtin to gnome? |
| 13:51.28 | bauen1 | davis: maybe it was "autostarted" by your desktop environment |
| 13:52.31 | davis | bauen1: that must explain it. the old box runs gnome and the new box is just a barebones non x windows box. |
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| 13:59.12 | FlorianBd | On a Raspberry Pi when trying to connect to a remote ssh server I get `Unable to negotiate with X.X.X.X port XX: no matching cipher found. Their offer: aes256-cbc,arcfour` but my `ssh -Q cipher` shows that aes256-cbc is in the list |
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| 14:02.19 | shtrb | FlorianBd, you need to explicitly select them (or enable in hosts) |
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| 14:03.34 | FlorianBd | ah, on server side it shows: `fatal: Unable to negotiate with X.X.X.X port XXX: no matching cipher found. Their offer: chacha20-poly1305@openssh.com,aes128-ctr,aes192-ctr,aes256-ctr,aes128-gcm@openssh.com,aes256-gcm@openssh.com` |
| 14:03.45 | FlorianBd | meaning that my client didn't offer it? |
| 14:04.02 | FlorianBd | shtrb: but how? |
| 14:05.13 | FlorianBd | ah.... -c option |
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| 14:06.48 | shtrb | FlorianBd, either set a config value (hostname IP\n\tKexAlgorithms +... (your list)\n\tCiphers aes256-cbc,arcfour\n) or via -c and -o |
| 14:07.44 | shtrb | FlorianBd, it's also really bad config , you should upgrade your keys |
| 14:10.07 | FlorianBd | shtrb: aes256 is bad? |
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| 14:17.07 | bauen1 | FlorianBd: shtrb: mozilla has a guide on securing ssh https://infosec.mozilla.org/guidelines/openssh.html |
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| 14:18.13 | jelly | FlorianBd, those ciphersets are rather outdated so recent openssh does not use them by default. Is the remote system or the OS running on it 10+ years old? |
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| 14:19.25 | jelly | Their offer: aes256-cbc,arcfour # I mean these. Old. |
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| 14:24.04 | shtrb | jelly, RC4 let that sink in |
| 14:24.16 | shtrb | Sorry , for FlorianBd |
| 14:25.35 | jelly | shtrb, yes. I know. Which is why I wrote what I wrote. |
| 14:27.17 | jelly | might be a piece of network eq. or old BMC |
| 14:27.39 | shtrb | Yeh , I missed the person , I know it is possible hence I said he migt add it in config |
| 14:28.19 | jelly | arcfour might be abandoned but sha256-cbc code is perhaps still there |
| 14:29.08 | FlorianBd | thanks bauen1, jelly :) |
| 14:29.21 | FlorianBd | shtrb: rc4 is on purpose, there's a reason for it ;) |
| 14:29.47 | jelly | ISTR arcfour and blowfish used to be useful when there was lots of data to be trasferred |
| 14:30.21 | shtrb | FlorianBd, honypot ? |
| 14:30.42 | FlorianBd | jelly: and also no CPU modules to take care of the encryption |
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| 14:32.36 | FlorianBd | If VLC in Raspberry Pi OS doesn't have JACK audio output, do I have to compile it manually or there's another way? |
| 14:32.40 | jelly | this was around Pentium III and P4 |
| 14:32.54 | jelly | so late 1990s, early 2000s |
| 14:33.32 | jelly | FlorianBd, if you're using Raspberry Pi OS you'll have to ask in their channel; we only know how actual Debian works and derivative distros change things |
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| 14:33.57 | FlorianBd | hmm, what's the channel? |
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| 14:34.21 | shtrb | Unless he is running debian on rpi 4 |
| 14:34.37 | jelly | there's a #raspberrypi and a #raspbian ... I have no idea whether Raspberry Pi OS is a successor of Raspbian |
| 14:34.49 | FlorianBd | ok thanks! |
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| 14:38.14 | EdePopede | i've seen someone mentioning the name change recently, seems to be so |
| 14:38.44 | jelly | #raspbian topic says fuck all about it |
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| 14:38.58 | jelly | er, "nothing", it says nothing |
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| 14:42.47 | shtrb | It would be so much more fun if there would be a new debian arch for rpis |
| 14:43.21 | jelly | !raspberry pi os |
| 14:43.21 | dpkg | Raspberry Pi OS (previously called Raspbian) is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. https://www.raspbian.org/ |
| 14:43.48 | shtrb | jelly, I'm asking for offical arch like we have for amd64 |
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| 14:45.06 | jelly | fun for whom |
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| 14:45.33 | themill | "what's the point" would be a reasonable question too |
| 14:47.20 | shtrb | so I could 100% trust that everything had passed under the watchfull eyes of DDs |
| 14:47.35 | themill | you can already run debian on the rpi |
| 14:47.49 | shtrb | only 4:-( |
| 14:47.52 | shtrb | and not officially |
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| 14:48.51 | shtrb | just realized his B+ is probably from 2015/6 :D , stuff works for ages ) |
| 14:48.55 | themill | the rpi2 works fine with Debian armhf |
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| 14:52.48 | petn-randall | IIRC some of it does, but not completely. |
| 14:53.07 | petn-randall | Or did that change in the last year? |
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| 14:54.03 | themill | firmware blob is required to boot |
| 14:54.11 | jelly | ignoring hardware and driver and looking just at the insn set, 4 ought to work with arm64, 3 ought to work with armhf, no idea about 2 |
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| 15:21.31 | jelly | .rt jellese 2 |
| 15:21.36 | jelly | oops, ECHAN |
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| 15:51.02 | halt | Are there any "IF This Then That" application for Debian ? A generic aggregator, which I can define things like, if connected to WiFi A then connect VPN B, if Power pluged in and lid closed then run backupscript, or something I just thought of if DND set ( Gnome3 ) then turn off plugin A, B and C. I'm aware of things like ifup.d and etc but was hoping for a more generic solution, as for example the DND set, is something I have not found yet an option for |
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| 15:58.47 | sponix2ipfw | halt: think they just call that Python |
| 16:00.58 | nevivurn | halt: yeah, the usual way to do this is to glue togther whatever components you want with bash/python/etc. scripts. There is far too much variability for a single generic solution to exist. |
| 16:01.12 | shtrb | halt, there are many if-up scripts and even network-manager configs for that |
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| 16:01.53 | shtrb | is going to hell because of if-up |
| 16:02.59 | halt | I see, yeah that's what I do now ( I mean python and etc random script ) , but no my use-cases getting more complex so I need a message bus where all the event goes, like hooks and log message match etc, then something to dispatch the commands, it seams so easy and fundamental that it feels wrong that it doesn't exist, so for example now I wanted to hook up to the event of DND is set, but I see no hook no log no event yet |
| 16:03.51 | shtrb | halt, c.f. dbus but you have already dispatching locations |
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| 16:04.33 | shtrb | halt, etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher |
| 16:05.48 | shtrb | and https://developer.gnome.org/NetworkManager/stable/NetworkManager.html for docs |
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| 16:07.39 | halt | Yeah network I pretty much solved it all, my current task in hand is to make the Gnome3 DND setting actually useful, so turn of some of the extensions which would give me still notifications and maybe even block out some stuff in the hosts file to make sure that I do zone out and don't waist mytime on fun sites |
| 16:08.25 | shtrb | halt , https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts |
| 16:08.48 | halt | That's what I use yes, that's still just the event but the trigger is missing |
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| 16:23.44 | Boodie | Hi everybody: I have been plagued from the day before yesterday with broken package dependencies in Aptitude (only) ... it happened after I tried to install cifs-utils |
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| 16:27.15 | jelly | !bat |
| 16:27.16 | dpkg | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 16:27.19 | jelly | Boodie, ^ |
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| 16:32.00 | Boodie | output of apt-cache policy cifs-utils: https://termbin.com/65yg |
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| 16:33.15 | torchinz | I tried running virtualbox with optirun...got this error: https://pastebin.com/XFFqf6T5 |
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| 16:33.53 | Boodie | output of apt-cache-policy: https://termbin.com/2ox6 |
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| 16:43.32 | oxek | which on-screen virtual keyboard in available in debian repos? |
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| 16:49.56 | nkuttler | oxek: there is xvkbd |
| 16:52.01 | oxek | nkuttler: it's hard to find any reviews of this very niche topic. Is that keyboard any good? Or do I simply try them all out and see? |
| 16:52.27 | oxek | is it easy to break debian by installing lots of packages and then uninstalling them? |
| 16:52.39 | nkuttler | oxek: the latter probably. xvkbd is very simple, but it's all i've ever used |
| 16:52.46 | nkuttler | oxek: nah, that should work fine |
| 16:52.58 | greycat | If removing a package breaks something, report the bug so it can be fixed. |
| 16:54.20 | oxek | ok, I'll see what happens |
| 16:54.28 | oxek | I have somewhat recent backups |
| 16:58.17 | Boodie | jelly: in order to provide "1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) ", I can say that I used the aptitude visual interface "ncurses?" and I tried to install cifs-utils. That seemed to work. When I tried to use cifs-utils, the command was not recognised. I went back into aptitude and noticed that the dependencies on the package winbind were not satisfied. I tried to install that package (with aptit |
| 16:58.17 | Boodie | ude) and now I have some 200 broken dependencies |
| 16:58.27 | n4dir | where again would i put an external application which is no single executable but a folder with the executable itself, vcvRack in this case, and a couple of more files? |
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| 16:59.00 | greycat | n4dir: wherever the author/maintainer said to put it |
| 16:59.11 | n4dir | well: he said "somewhere" ... |
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| 16:59.16 | oxek | Boodie: you've been doing this for 3 days now. Isn't it easier to just reinstall? |
| 16:59.23 | n4dir | so i will just leave it in /usr/local |
| 16:59.25 | greycat | Then put it wherever you want. /opt is traditional. |
| 16:59.49 | n4dir | ok, thanks for the confirmation |
| 17:00.07 | Boodie | oxec: the whole system? |
| 17:00.30 | oxek | Boodie: yeah. You can't currently even upgrade the system anyway, due to all the broken dependencies, so it is a broken system. |
| 17:00.50 | oxek | either restore from backups, or start fresh |
| 17:01.05 | Boodie | My goodness ... |
| 17:01.30 | n4dir | installing takes half an hour, compared to repairing for 3 days that seems very comfortable. But that is me |
| 17:01.51 | oxek | I wouldn't normally recommend this, but it is 3 days now you've been dealing with one problem. At some point it becomes a waste of time to try to fix it. |
| 17:02.03 | Boodie | ok, what is the process, then? |
| 17:02.20 | Boodie | I mean to reinstall |
| 17:02.24 | oxek | Boodie: step 1) Make a backup of absolutely everything |
| 17:02.37 | oxek | on external media, on another pc, etc. |
| 17:02.46 | Boodie | my god ... |
| 17:03.18 | oxek | remember hidden files, config files, take screenshots of important settings, etc. |
| 17:03.30 | oxek | step 2) Install debian :) |
| 17:03.37 | Boodie | I can't believe it |
| 17:04.02 | greycat | What can't you believe? |
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| 17:04.19 | Boodie | that i have to reinstall |
| 17:04.49 | greycat | You could provide the information you were asked for, instead of a laundry list of excuses as to why you couldn't even provide the version of Debian you are using. |
| 17:05.08 | Boodie | [buster] |
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| 17:05.14 | greycat | But since you failed to provide even a SINGLE piece of information beyond "I'm using a GUI instead of commands", how are we supposed to help you? |
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| 17:05.31 | SanchoPensa | hey guys! |
| 17:05.53 | SanchoPensa | is it only me, or does whois return no what so ever usable info as of late? |
| 17:06.08 | greycat | Have you considered NOT using that GUI that is obviously not helping you in any way? Did you try the BASICS like "apt-get -f install"? |
| 17:06.22 | nevivurn | SanchoPensa: it works for me, what do you mean by that? |
| 17:06.48 | SanchoPensa | nevivurn: I mean, that it does not return any what so ever usable info anymore as of late. |
| 17:06.49 | MacDada | hi, i'm not sure if this is a right channel, but the problem is about Debian Stretch. I'm having trouble updating sources list on a Debian as Vagrant machine hosted by OSX. How do I fix "Failed to fetch" error? wget on the links works (both at host and guest machines): https://gist.github.com/MacDada/2f2342b07b7d17d63abb691d93968d25 |
| 17:06.53 | Boodie | I don't know how to provide the information you are asking. I am sorry. Probably Debian is beyond my capabilities ... |
| 17:07.13 | oxek | !bat |
| 17:07.14 | dpkg | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 17:07.16 | oxek | Boodie: read that |
| 17:07.19 | nevivurn | SanchoPensa: what do you mean yb "usable info"? The stuff it outputs hasn't changed last I checked. |
| 17:08.29 | oxek | SanchoPensa: most domains are using whois hiding providers now |
| 17:08.51 | SanchoPensa | nevivurn: well, it definitely has, since I last checked. Registrar, registrant, no info, IF you are lucky an IP address, and IF you are lucky some name-servers. But certainly no OWNER, no tech-c address, no nothing. |
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| 17:09.02 | SanchoPensa | oxek: how is that legal? |
| 17:09.12 | oxek | SanchoPensa: why wouldn't it be legal? |
| 17:09.14 | another | most registries are hiding information now due to GDPR et al |
| 17:09.27 | nevivurn | Ah, is it about that? In that case, there is not much whois (or anyone) can do about that. The registar themselves are hiding that info, and only providing it on request |
| 17:09.35 | nevivurn | (from LE and such) |
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| 17:10.02 | SanchoPensa | oxek: because according at least to EU law, a USER must be able to find out, to whom such a page belongs. That's the LAW. |
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| 17:10.24 | oxek | SanchoPensa: yeah. No law says it has to be through whois though. |
| 17:10.45 | another | SanchoPensa: which law? i'm not aware of any |
| 17:11.00 | SanchoPensa | oxek: the law says, there has to be an impressum on the homepage. Which there isn't in the page in question. |
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| 17:11.35 | nevivurn | SanchoPensa: OK, report it and have them rectify it if you believe you found out how all those registrars and website owners are breaking laws that their legal departments wasn't aware of. |
| 17:11.43 | SanchoPensa | another: it is EU Law. If you're a user, you MUST be able to find out, who is operating any arbitrary website. |
| 17:12.19 | greycat | You realize that most web sites are not operated on computers in the EU, right? |
| 17:12.22 | another | as said, i'm not aware of any such EU law |
| 17:12.34 | oxek | SanchoPensa: and the way to do that is you send a lawful request to the domain registrar. |
| 17:12.40 | SanchoPensa | since when do we have that? I remember using whois for the last time maybe some 1-2 months back? |
| 17:12.43 | another | if you're talking about germany specifically.... it's more complicated |
| 17:12.46 | SanchoPensa | WHY do we have that? |
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| 17:13.29 | another | google iana whois privacy |
| 17:13.34 | SanchoPensa | another: hehehe. is there ANYTHING, that isn't more complicated in Germany? But nope, I am talking about any arbitrary European site. |
| 17:13.42 | another | there was a long discussion about it |
| 17:15.05 | SanchoPensa | another: you woudn't by any means be implying, that the privacy protectors WON that discussion for a change? That's be completely new... |
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| 17:16.37 | another | i'm not up-to-date on the whole thing. my last info is: something, something GDPR -> whois is mostly private now |
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| 17:17.49 | oxek | they won not because it is good for privacy, but because it makes their life easier |
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| 17:22.20 | SanchoPensa | 'That means the service may end up being less valuable to brand owners, lawyers, and cybersecurity researchers who utilize WHOIS to perform tasks, like identifying malicious domains or researching infringement claims, for example.' That would be the understatement of the day... |
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| 17:22.48 | SanchoPensa | 25 May of 2018. That's more than 2 years. Why the heck did nobody tell me yet? :D |
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| 17:23.15 | SanchoPensa | oxek: how so? |
| 17:23.30 | chakpapa | Is there a way to globally prevent services from being autoenabled when they are installed in Debian? Kind of like replicating the behavior in Arch |
| 17:23.38 | greycat | No. |
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| 17:24.03 | chakpapa | Ok |
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| 17:24.58 | SanchoPensa | chakpapa: you can use tools like stacer, tho, to turn them off pretty easily per mouseclick in a decent overview |
| 17:25.35 | chakpapa | SanchoPensa, thanks for the suggestion. Will try it |
| 17:25.46 | SanchoPensa | another: I am currently reading up on that GDPR thang, pretty interesting, as I find! |
| 17:25.53 | SanchoPensa | chakpapa: my pleasure! |
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| 17:30.18 | shtrb | SanchoPensa, and it's not even just the EU, some providers even outside will hide that iformation no matter if you are an EU citizen or not (for no fee what so ever). |
| 17:31.33 | SanchoPensa | shtrb: which is obvious for the reason, that the registrars reside within the EU, therefore of course DO have to comply. |
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| 17:33.21 | SanchoPensa | shtrb: other than that, those registrars would also have to comply with EU law, if they are NOT within the EU. That is, either if the registrant, OR the plaintiff are a EU located entity. You see, facebook, f.ex., also has to comply to EU law. |
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| 17:35.24 | shtrb | SanchoPensa, I'm talking about registers outside of the EU |
| 17:35.59 | shtrb | a US citizen , registering with a US register may get his whois hidden |
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| 17:40.36 | SanchoPensa | shtrb: because it is WAY to complicated, to differenciate, where that registrant is really located. How would you find out, except with a full-sized user-verification? Europeans may register US domains too, you know? Fex., when you plan to expand your enterprise to the US without having a branch there yet. |
| 17:41.10 | shtrb | Privacy at whois had existed prior to GDPR |
| 17:41.29 | shtrb | *Privacy shield |
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| 17:47.38 | shtrb | Anyone here with android with kdeconnect and can say if it is possible to make a call over kdeconnect (pc to android ) ? |
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| 18:03.12 | SanchoPensa | oxek, another, nevivurn, greycat, shtrb: thank you for your assistance and you perspective, ladies and gentlemen, as always very much appreciated! |
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| 18:09.38 | oxek | chakpapa: you can mask the service before installing it |
| 18:09.39 | beelzebuzz | oxek: did you find the options for the pulseaudio plugin btw? |
| 18:09.51 | beelzebuzz | xfce thing |
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| 18:10.14 | oxek | beelzebuzz: did not see any replies to my question |
| 18:10.37 | beelzebuzz | right click the plugin. there is a switch for player control |
| 18:10.58 | oxek | oh wow, that was simple, thanks |
| 18:11.08 | oxek | I can just mark vlc as hidden |
| 18:11.10 | beelzebuzz | sure |
| 18:11.32 | xlirate | I am trying to get an old laptop running buster. I just finished a net install where I asked for lxde. After boot, I am given a blank screen and can ctrl+alt+f2 into a working shell. What steps to I take to get from where I am to a working graphical computer? |
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| 18:12.24 | oxek | beelzebuzz: I didn't even know these options existed. They are not accessible from the main xfce control panel. |
| 18:12.56 | beelzebuzz | you would have to go to panel > items > gizmo's properties |
| 18:13.13 | oxek | yeah, that's not easy to discover |
| 18:13.28 | oxek | now I know, thanks again |
| 18:13.51 | beelzebuzz | not all of the panel plugins have options so some people don't assume that right clicking will show other options |
| 18:13.58 | beelzebuzz | :) |
| 18:14.18 | oxek | that was exactly my case, none of the other panel plugins had any options do I did not assume this one would |
| 18:14.30 | beelzebuzz | cinnamon is kind of non-intuituve like that as well |
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| 18:14.39 | frotz47 | xlirate: what is the laptop? |
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| 18:16.06 | xlirate | An old hp, from the early windows 8 days. The model number has rubbed off. Neofetch says I have an AMD E-300 apu and ~4gm of ram |
| 18:16.31 | xlirate | HP 200 or something |
| 18:16.36 | xlirate | 2000* |
| 18:16.41 | oxek | one day I'll learn how to use i3 and configure it to do what I want. Until then I am stuck with xfce (which is light-ish, but not consistent in behavior), lxde (which is dead), lxqt (which is not finished), gnome (which tries to do everything and thus takes so many resources) |
| 18:17.05 | xlirate | lxde is dead? |
| 18:17.12 | oxek | yeah |
| 18:17.20 | beelzebuzz | oxek: cinnamon and mate too |
| 18:17.21 | oxek | no more development, all resources moved to lxqt |
| 18:17.44 | oxek | beelzebuzz: I'm not familiar with those two |
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| 18:17.54 | beelzebuzz | gnome 2 spinoffs |
| 18:18.18 | oxek | I don't really care about the DEs, most of the time I just want them to stay away and not interfere with what I'm actually doing. |
| 18:18.37 | EdePopede | xlirate, inxi may be also of interest, gives some more info. |
| 18:19.04 | xlirate | Something of note, my home dir is empty |
| 18:19.27 | xlirate | only dot files |
| 18:19.37 | frotz47 | xlirate: try enabling non-free in apt sources, install firmware-linux, and reboot |
| 18:20.29 | beelzebuzz | lxde just up and decided to merge with razorqt to keep lxqt going didn't they? |
| 18:22.10 | oxek | xlirate: do you want it to be empty? |
| 18:22.43 | frotz47 | first there was LXDE-Qt and then the merge with razor-qt to become LXQt |
| 18:22.43 | xlirate | CPU: Dual Core AMD E-300 APU with Radeon HD Graphics (-MCP-) speed/min/max: 781/780/1300 MHz Kernam 4.19.0-10-amd64 x86_64 Up: 15m Mem 183.3/3539.1 MiB (5.2%) Storage 298.09 GiB (1.3% used) Procs: 85 Shell: bash 5.0.3 inix: 3.0.32 |
| 18:23.10 | beelzebuzz | frotz47: i see |
| 18:23.27 | frotz47 | xlirate: home dir will populate when LXDE is first run |
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| 18:23.57 | dvs | xlirate, you definately need firmware-amd-graphics package. |
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| 18:24.08 | xlirate | The firmware seemed to do it |
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| 18:24.27 | xlirate | Thank you for the help |
| 18:24.40 | dvs | np |
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| 18:32.04 | oxek | ok, I just learned there are lots of possibly useful xfce panel items |
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| 18:33.37 | beelzebuzz | :) |
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| 18:39.43 | TimMc | Are there any significant energy efficiency differences between stable and testing right now? Perhaps specific to laptops. |
| 18:41.05 | TimMc | (I'm trying to help my wife decide whether to upgrade Ubuntu or jump to Debian, and if she goes to Debian she really wants to be sure she gets some of the perf improvements that the Ubuntu 18.04 LTS got... we just don't know what those are.) |
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| 18:41.51 | nvz | sounds symptomatic of sns syndrome to me |
| 18:44.06 | mason | TimMc: You'd have to look at kernel change logs and see if anything's noted as improved in the various kernel versions you're considering. |
| 18:44.19 | greycat | or TIAS |
| 18:45.07 | greycat | (or ask the testing channel) (and also remember that you can install a *-backports kernel) |
| 18:45.37 | TimMc | But it's most likely to be a kernel thing? |
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| 18:49.54 | mason | TimMc: Yes. |
| 18:50.26 | srged | booting up my debian lxde and the wallpaper didn;t load, plus all the icons lost their old alignment. whats up |
| 18:52.52 | xlirate | How do I make/let network-manager manage my ethernet? I switched from wicd to nm to maintain parody between my buster box and my sid box |
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| 18:53.31 | TimMc | mason: Thanks, that really helps narrow it down! I didn't even know where to start. :-) |
| 18:53.46 | mason | TimMc: I doubt you'll see a ton of differences. |
| 18:53.55 | TimMc | Between versions? |
| 18:54.05 | mason | Between different vaguely modern kernels. |
| 18:55.13 | mason | TimMc: If your goal is carbon footprint, Windows does a better job than anything Linux can put up. So knowing that you've got a mix of priorities, I'd go with whatever you most want to run. |
| 18:56.52 | TimMc | More about not wanting the laptop to overheat and shut down. :-/ |
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| 18:58.11 | mason | TimMc: If that's a risk, make sure you clean out all the dust, thoroughly. |
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| 19:04.36 | xlirate | I tried to replace wicd with network-manager-gnome, and I lost my ability to connect to the internet. This is the same laptop as above |
| 19:05.45 | srged | booting up my debian lxde and the wallpaper didn;t load, plus all the icons lost their old alignment. what coukld it be |
| 19:05.48 | srged | ? |
| 19:05.54 | greycat | xlirate: so, change it back |
| 19:07.20 | xlirate | Apt install fails because I don't have internet :/ |
| 19:07.52 | greycat | Sneakernet it. apt-get --print-uris install .... |
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| 19:10.40 | mason | xlirate: Or, set up the network by hand. Good time to learn! |
| 19:11.32 | xlirate | How to I connect to the internet over ethernet manually? |
| 19:11.42 | xlirate | What do I man/google for? |
| 19:11.48 | mason | xlirate: Oh, that's easy. Was getting ready to help you configuse wpa_supplicant. |
| 19:11.56 | mason | xlirate: ip a to see your ip address |
| 19:12.15 | greycat | Ethernet is usually simple if your network has a DHCP server. Just configure /etc/network/interfaces to run dhcp on your eth interface. |
| 19:12.29 | mason | then: dhclient eth0 (or whatever your NIC ends up being if it's not eth0 - enp458xmystic290 or whatever) |
| 19:12.32 | greycat | Then ifup interfacename |
| 19:12.45 | mason | too complex! bare dhclient! |
| 19:12.51 | greycat | mason's way is more ephemeral |
| 19:12.57 | xlirate | enp2s0 |
| 19:12.58 | mason | Definitely. Nothing to undo later. |
| 19:13.06 | xlirate | I am fine with ephemetal |
| 19:13.08 | mason | dhclient enp2s0 |
| 19:13.17 | mason | ephemetalthunder |
| 19:14.03 | xlirate | RTNETLINK answer: File exists |
| 19:14.09 | mason | xlirate: The fun bit is that setting up wifi and wpa isn't all that much more difficult - man wpa_passphrase as an initial pointer |
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| 19:15.17 | mason | hrm, the interwebs say.... sudo ip addr flush enp2s0 |
| 19:15.42 | srged | why did my wallpaper doesnt load up anymore ? |
| 19:16.14 | xlirate | It is back up. That flush did it |
| 19:16.17 | xlirate | Thank you |
| 19:16.45 | xlirate | For how short lived this laptop will be (1 project then into the shredder) I can live with only having ethernet |
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| 19:17.28 | mason | xlirate: Give it away! Lots and lots and lots of kids behind the eightball with remote learning because their families can't afford gear. It can live a good life as a teaching tool. |
| 19:17.53 | xlirate | I plan to, but the hdd and the linux install go in the shreder |
| 19:17.57 | mason | That's fine. |
| 19:18.26 | mason | Well. Or just find a way you trust to wipe the drive. Difficult, certainly. |
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| 19:18.39 | xlirate | I have other drives on my shelf to replace it with |
| 19:18.47 | mason | carbon footprint! |
| 19:18.49 | xlirate | This is a government contract, they have rules |
| 19:19.05 | xlirate | The other drives were reclaimed from dead computers |
| 19:19.16 | mason | kk, that's some karmic balance then. |
| 19:19.26 | mason | anyway, I'm drifting off-topic. Sorry. |
| 19:20.30 | TimMc | mason: Haha yes, blowing out the dust can do wonders. This is for a new (refurbished) machine, though. |
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| 19:30.08 | xlirate | What are the rules about language/expletives in this channel? Colti's quit message is probably nsfw |
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| 19:30.57 | sney | afaik it's never been a big enough problem for there to be a serious rule |
| 19:31.03 | sney | just keep it to a minimum |
| 19:31.07 | xlirate | ok |
| 19:31.10 | greycat | colti's love of barnyard fowl is one of the least offensive things you're likely to see on IRC |
| 19:31.53 | nkuttler | can confirm, source: been around a while |
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| 19:34.48 | xlirate | My thoughts on that mater were that the most prolific members moved off to other tools and only us nerds are left on IRC, but I may be mistaken. I have not been in this game all that long |
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| 19:40.00 | sney | it's kind of true but irc is hard to kill. it's had a little bit of a resurgence in covid times and there aren't many platforms that could truly replace it. most of the contenders need to make money to survive and therefore won't |
| 19:43.14 | nkuttler | i haven't seen a contender that can scale well beyond smallish teams tbh |
| 19:44.55 | sney | yeah that's another problem. irc has so little overhead that here we are in a room with >1000 people and you wouldn't even know it. on slack all of our systems would be chugging even with this low percent of active users |
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| 20:13.24 | genr8_ | Happy 27th Birthday! |
| 20:13.48 | dvs | it's not my birthday! Oh, debian, nvm |
| 20:14.33 | dvs | oh, it should be approaching the linux kernel's 29th birthday soon. |
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| 20:22.18 | mason | Almost time for Carousel. |
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| 20:26.27 | alexusono | or making a run for it |
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| 20:27.28 | xlirate | The same chances as anyone else |
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| 20:45.26 | danielboston26 | hi /ns RESETPASS danielboston26 markdymek@gmail.com |
| 20:45.31 | danielboston26 | whoops |
| 20:45.44 | danielboston26 | no one saw that! |
| 20:46.44 | danielboston26 | i am trying to add debian unstable to my repo however i cannot update apt after doing so it wants the public key for unstable i try to add them but i get a timeout error |
| 20:47.01 | danielboston26 | how do i add unstable to debian stable? |
| 20:47.34 | greycat | !don't break debian |
| 20:47.34 | dpkg | somebody said dont break debian was https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian |
| 20:47.51 | greycat | Do *not* mix stable and unstable binary repositories. |
| 20:49.34 | SerajewelKS | there's like one or two cases in which it's okay but only with suitable pinning and a clear understanding of how to do what you're doing. (for example, that is how you get wireguard on oldstable.) |
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| 20:51.30 | danielboston26 | i am doing pinning but i get your point |
| 20:51.37 | greycat | *plonk* |
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| 20:52.36 | SerajewelKS | well the point is don't do it. if your question is "how do i add unstable to debian stable" then it's unlikely that you are in a situation where you need to do this. |
| 20:52.44 | SerajewelKS | if you were you would be asking a more specific and different question |
| 20:52.55 | SerajewelKS | !xy problem |
| 20:52.56 | dpkg | Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem |
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| 20:54.17 | danielboston26 | well i wanted to use the non esr vesion of firefox |
| 20:55.31 | SerajewelKS | trying to get that from unstable is probably going to upgrade half of your system. i would suspect it will try to pull in a newer libc. |
| 20:55.44 | SerajewelKS | use the release binaries from mozilla if you really want to do that. see https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox |
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| 20:57.38 | sponix2ipfw | danielboston26: does the current branch of Firefox really have advantages? |
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| 21:05.29 | oxek | which package do I need to get ZFS support in debian? I have non-free and contrib enabled. |
| 21:08.08 | sney | oxek: zfs-dkms |
| 21:08.46 | oxek | and that will pull in everything else? |
| 21:08.54 | sney | yes |
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| 21:09.02 | karlpinc | oxek: You might want to see: https://wiki.debian.org/ZFS |
| 21:09.03 | sney | make sure you have your kernel headers as well. |
| 21:09.05 | oxek | thanks |
| 21:09.26 | karlpinc | oxek: (I don't know why, but it recommends pulling in zfs from backports.) |
| 21:09.40 | oxek | (this is not for a root installation, this is just to access some ZFS drives) |
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| 21:11.48 | oxek | can someone explain this line in the output of 'apt show zfsutils-linux': "Breaks: zfs-dkms (>> 0.7.12-2+deb10u2), zfs-dkms (<< 0.7.12-2+deb10u2)" |
| 21:11.56 | oxek | how does the >> << work? |
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| 21:17.15 | sney | they are pretty much greater/less than operators |
| 21:17.16 | sney | !policy |
| 21:17.16 | dpkg | policy is the document that defines how Debian packages should (and must!) interact with each other and with the user to make sure we have a high-quality, stable distribution. You can find it at http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ or in the debian-policy package. Those who fail to understand Debian Policy are doomed to reimplement it, poorly. See also <best practices> <nmg> <mentors>. |
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| 21:21.12 | oxek | but how can it be both less than and greater than the same version? |
| 21:21.49 | oxek | oh, I think I get it, it means the version has to be exactly 0.7.12-2+deb10u2 |
| 21:21.52 | sney | it works with that version only and any other will conflict, yes |
| 21:22.19 | oxek | thank you again for explaining |
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| 22:05.41 | mason | oxek: FWIW, root on ZFS is pretty snazzy. |
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| 22:06.53 | lenswipe | hey folks |
| 22:07.08 | karlpinc | !ask |
| 22:07.08 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 22:08.14 | karlpinc | mason: zfs is pretty snazzy. Too bad the judge ruled that an announcement by a CEO on a blog is not a public announcement or we'd have zfs as free software. |
| 22:08.24 | lenswipe | karlpinc, was that for e? |
| 22:08.25 | lenswipe | me* |
| 22:08.35 | mason | karlpinc: Eh? What blog post is this? |
| 22:08.36 | karlpinc | lenswipe: Sorta. Or anybody. |
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| 22:08.44 | lenswipe | karlpinc, i literally just got here |
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| 22:09.12 | karlpinc | mason: The CEO of Sun Microsystems said Sun was opensourcing zfs, but when oracle bought Sun they didn't want to. |
| 22:09.16 | lenswipe | I followed the instructions here for debian https://obsproject.com/wiki/install-instructions#linux and now my machine won't boot to GUI, and if I try and login via the tty it just kicks me back out to the tty again. |
| 22:09.27 | lenswipe | it also complains about being unable to start the network stack or NTP |
| 22:09.29 | mason | karlpinc: Ah, you're trolling. I see. I took it seriously for a moment. |
| 22:09.37 | lenswipe | i think it's "donald duck"'d |
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| 22:10.14 | karlpinc | mason: I'm serious. (And remarking. I don't know I'd call it trolling.) But I'm not exactly on-topic for support so I'll stop. |
| 22:10.54 | karlpinc | lenswipe: How new is the system? Did you use the unofficial installer images containing non-free firmware or could you be missing firmware? |
| 22:11.56 | lenswipe | karlpinc, fairly new (less than 2 months), it was working until I followed those instructions |
| 22:12.03 | lenswipe | point is - i cant even get in to the system to debug anything |
| 22:12.28 | lenswipe | I'm using LVM, so I'd like to re-install my root partition, but I can't get the debian installer to let me do that# |
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| 22:13.26 | seifferth | lenswipe: Maybe you could chroot into your root system to check what's wrong |
| 22:13.34 | lenswipe | how? |
| 22:13.38 | lenswipe | i cant login |
| 22:13.40 | lenswipe | like...at all |
| 22:13.45 | seifferth | Boot a different OS |
| 22:13.56 | karlpinc | lenswipe: I don't see any OS install instructions on that page. |
| 22:13.57 | lenswipe | might try that |
| 22:14.04 | karlpinc | lenswipe: Boot the installer in rescue mode. |
| 22:14.05 | mason | lenswipe: I love the live media (standard, no GUI) for debugging this stuff. |
| 22:14.05 | lenswipe | karlpinc, i didn't say there were any |
| 22:14.06 | mesaboogie | chroot from LIVE iso USB stick |
| 22:14.23 | lenswipe | mesaboogie, 1. nice username. 2. I tried that- the debian live env cant read LVM |
| 22:14.25 | karlpinc | lenswipe: It will give you an option to chroot. (The debian installer.) |
| 22:14.41 | lenswipe | karlpinc, will it also be able to read my lvm group? |
| 22:14.48 | lenswipe | that's the major issue here |
| 22:14.52 | karlpinc | lenswipe: You have to apt-get install lvm (or some such) on the live system to install lvm so you can use it. |
| 22:14.58 | lenswipe | yeah i did that |
| 22:15.04 | lenswipe | lvscan shows nothing |
| 22:15.21 | lenswipe | literally it just exits with no information |
| 22:15.28 | mesaboogie | encrypted? |
| 22:15.32 | seifferth | lenswipe: I did that sort of stuff frequently with arch linux |
| 22:15.44 | lenswipe | mesaboogie, yes |
| 22:15.49 | karlpinc | lenswipe: I seem to recall the magic lives in "lvchange -ay". Then you can see your lvm stuff. |
| 22:16.13 | another | you gotta open that LUKS container first |
| 22:16.47 | karlpinc | lenswipe: Yes, if you're also encrypted then you must first cryptsetup (iirc). |
| 22:17.10 | lenswipe | karlpinc, yeah, i tried that |
| 22:17.13 | lenswipe | cryptsetup: command not found |
| 22:17.22 | mesaboogie | dm-crypt |
| 22:18.08 | mason | lenswipe: Well. I mean, if you need a command and it's not found, install it. |
| 22:18.19 | mesaboogie | apt install cryptsetup |
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| 22:18.26 | karlpinc | lenswipe: What is your $PATH? /sbin/cryptsetup. (Maybe you did not "su -" to become root with a login shell? Or use the right sudo option?) |
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| 22:18.56 | karlpinc | mesaboogie: If cryptsetup does not exist it is unlikely the disk is encrypted. ;-) |
| 22:19.19 | mesaboogie | but do that from live if it is missing |
| 22:19.22 | lenswipe | karlpinc, the disk is encrypted |
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| 22:20.01 | karlpinc | lenswipe: Did you chroot? We should start from the beginning.... |
| 22:20.15 | lenswipe | E: Unable to locate package lvm# |
| 22:20.38 | lenswipe | ah lvm2 |
| 22:20.54 | mason | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:21.50 | lenswipe | okay. |
| 22:21.54 | lenswipe | debian live env. i have cryptseup |
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| 22:22.42 | seifferth | cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sdXY |
| 22:22.54 | seifferth | maybe add a name for the mapper as such |
| 22:23.07 | seifferth | cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sdXY name |
| 22:23.10 | karlpinc | lenswipe: You may have to read the man page I don't recall the exact command offhand and have to go... Hopefully you'll get help from others. |
| 22:23.12 | seifferth | (if I remember correctly) |
| 22:23.42 | seifferth | Then you should be able to see the decrypted disk under /dev/mapper/ |
| 22:24.01 | seifferth | and mount it as usual |
| 22:24.15 | lenswipe | yes |
| 22:24.15 | seifferth | mount /dev/mapper/DEVICE /mnt |
| 22:24.17 | lenswipe | there it is |
| 22:24.23 | lenswipe | so now it presents as a regular disk? |
| 22:24.42 | seifferth | Yes, it appears as a regular partition under /dev/mapper/ |
| 22:24.54 | seifferth | But only once the luks container is opened |
| 22:25.03 | seifferth | And it will be removed if you run: |
| 22:25.04 | lenswipe | holy hell |
| 22:25.05 | lenswipe | finally |
| 22:25.10 | karlpinc | lenswipe: There's no odd repositories or anything on that page, so it is not clear what broke your system. You might want to give us the info in the <bat> factoid because what you did should not have broken things. |
| 22:25.10 | seifferth | cryptsetup luksClose |
| 22:26.06 | seifferth | karlpinc: Wouldn't life be boring if things only broke when they are supposed to ;) |
| 22:26.24 | lenswipe | so, i assume that i should tell the installer to install on vg-root |
| 22:26.33 | lenswipe | i dont want to nuke my home folder or anything |
| 22:26.35 | lenswipe | just my OS |
| 22:26.58 | seifferth | Do you have a home folder or a home partition? |
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| 22:27.28 | lenswipe | seifferth, it's on a different logical volume |
| 22:27.55 | seifferth | Well, if the home partition isn't mounted, you should be fairly safe, I assume |
| 22:28.09 | lenswipe | Im using the graphical installer in the live environment right now |
| 22:28.18 | lenswipe | i clicked on what as my root partition and told it to instal there |
| 22:28.31 | lenswipe | the only problem is - it's probably going to try and install an entire debian system in there, rather than just the OS |
| 22:28.58 | seifferth | lenswipe: I don't quite get it. Debian is the OS, right? |
| 22:29.15 | mason | lenswipe: This might be a bit of a stretch, but it wouldn't be a horrible thing to learn about debootstrap installs, which should let you get something minimal going to start off. |
| 22:29.19 | lenswipe | yes, but i mean it will try to create a new system like swap, tmp etc in there |
| 22:29.38 | mason | lenswipe: What's your goal again? |
| 22:29.42 | seifferth | You should be able to unselect swap in the installer |
| 22:30.12 | seifferth | +1 for mason's suggestion, btw |
| 22:30.25 | seifferth | debootstrap is a viable option |
| 22:30.26 | lenswipe | mason, TL;DR: OS is FUBAR - nuke system from orbit and re-install debian without killing my LVM setup or home |
| 22:30.43 | lenswipe | seifferth, idd, but right now i want to fix this before tomorrow...this is my work machine and i have things to do |
| 22:31.15 | mason | lenswipe: Do you have back-ups? If I were you, job 1 is making back ups using live media. Then you can reinstall more freely. |
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| 22:31.36 | lenswipe | mason, yes, but they're a little stale...so sort of no |
| 22:31.52 | mason | lenswipe: You can use the live media to take new backups or freshen the ones you've got. |
| 22:32.03 | lenswipe | i did that last time |
| 22:32.10 | lenswipe | i seem to recall it taking 24 hours |
| 22:32.32 | seifferth | How big is your disk anyway? |
| 22:32.38 | lenswipe | 255GB |
| 22:32.40 | lenswipe | it's an SSD |
| 22:32.41 | seifferth | And how stale are your backups? |
| 22:32.44 | lenswipe | its not full though |
| 22:32.47 | mason | lenswipe: Worst case, plug in a USB disk and rsync your stuff over. |
| 22:32.48 | lenswipe | a couple of months |
| 22:32.53 | lenswipe | mason, it was rsync i used last time |
| 22:32.55 | lenswipe | it took 24 hours |
| 22:33.11 | seifferth | You can set options to just update new stuff |
| 22:33.14 | mason | lenswipe: Freshening an rsync-spawned backup will not take nearly as long. |
| 22:33.27 | lenswipe | ic |
| 22:33.35 | lenswipe | another thing is i dont want to lose my LVM setup |
| 22:33.48 | seifferth | No need to |
| 22:34.02 | seifferth | Maybe just back up home (how big is home?) |
| 22:34.07 | lenswipe | 90 odd gigs |
| 22:34.14 | lenswipe | 93.1 to be exact |
| 22:35.00 | seifferth | Well, It's your choice, really. Updating the stale backup with rsync is an option. |
| 22:35.28 | lenswipe | how? |
| 22:35.29 | seifferth | Or you just manually copy what you've been working on since the last backup (if that's easy enough, that is) |
| 22:35.54 | seifferth | You should be able to mount your home partition just the way you mounted the root partition |
| 22:36.20 | lenswipe | and then? |
| 22:36.38 | lenswipe | do I have to pass flags to rsync to get it to do an incremental backup? |
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| 22:37.46 | seifferth | I'm never entirely sure about that |
| 22:38.10 | seifferth | I tend to try it out on a directory just before I do it. |
| 22:38.15 | seifferth | Every single time ;) |
| 22:38.23 | mason | rsync -av /my/source/ /my/destination/ |
| 22:38.34 | seifferth | maybe leave the v out |
| 22:38.35 | lenswipe | in the meantime, im in the live environment using the graphical installer in there, which seems to want to install an entirely new system inside my root partition |
| 22:38.51 | mason | seifferth: you leave the v out and you don't see that you've mistargeted it |
| 22:39.02 | seifferth | true |
| 22:39.20 | seifferth | but you leave it in and you don't see errors as clearly |
| 22:39.22 | seifferth | ... |
| 22:39.40 | seifferth | But your point is valid as well |
| 22:40.05 | lenswipe | i cant mount my home dir |
| 22:40.08 | lenswipe | it cant find it in fstab |
| 22:40.25 | seifferth | You have to give it a directory to mount to |
| 22:40.45 | seifferth | mkdir mnthome; mount /dev/mapper/HOME_DIR ./mnthome |
| 22:41.37 | lenswipe | i did that |
| 22:41.43 | lenswipe | im booting back to the instaler |
| 22:41.49 | seifferth | Why? |
| 22:42.06 | lenswipe | because the installer in the live environment doesn't do what i want |
| 22:42.16 | seifferth | Don't worry |
| 22:42.40 | seifferth | You should be able to install a full OS to the root, then modify some parts |
| 22:43.00 | lenswipe | how so |
| 22:43.24 | seifferth | Well, I suppose your LVM setup means that boot and home reside somewhere else |
| 22:43.34 | lenswipe | yep |
| 22:43.38 | lenswipe | and /swap |
| 22:43.47 | seifferth | maybe back up your /etc/fstab |
| 22:43.52 | seifferth | that should contain all of that |
| 22:44.01 | seifferth | probably also /etc/crypttab |
| 22:44.38 | seifferth | Take a look at the two |
| 22:45.00 | seifferth | Do you have crypttab? (I don't for example) |
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| 22:46.03 | seifferth | lenswipe: And also make sure not to format the root partition |
| 22:46.40 | seifferth | I. e. don't create a new filesystem, or the UUID will change and that will break the kernel params in the bootloader config |
| 22:46.41 | alexrelis[m] | Why doesn't Debian accept cash donations? Is there a specific legal reason for this? |
| 22:46.54 | alexrelis[m] | I know I could simply donate to Software in the Public Interest, but I'd prefer to donate to Debian directly. |
| 22:47.28 | mesaboogie | alexrelis[m]: https://www.debian.org/donations |
| 22:47.30 | lenswipe | Ah. |
| 22:47.39 | lenswipe | Is it possible to install without formatting the root partition? |
| 22:48.02 | seifferth | It is (debootstrap) |
| 22:48.13 | seifferth | I'm not entirely sure about the graphical installer |
| 22:48.39 | seifferth | If you would use debootstrap, you could even save your old install |
| 22:48.55 | seifferth | the last time I nuked my os, I simply moved everything from / into /old/. |
| 22:49.06 | seifferth | And then installed a new system to / |
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| 22:49.47 | seifferth | And whenever I found that I had missed something, I could just copy it from /old/SOMEWHERE to /SOMEWHERE |
| 22:51.12 | lenswipe | yeah |
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| 22:51.20 | lenswipe | meanwhile, why can't i work with LVM in ash? |
| 22:51.42 | seifferth | ? |
| 22:52.06 | seifferth | The shell? |
| 22:52.29 | seifferth | You can work with LVM in any shell, I believe |
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| 22:55.30 | seifferth | lenswipe: Well, I'll have to go as well, I'm afraid. |
| 22:55.34 | seifferth | Take a look at https://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap |
| 22:55.46 | seifferth | If I were you, I'd go for: |
| 22:55.57 | seifferth | 1. Move the old system to /old/. |
| 22:56.12 | seifferth | 2. debootstrap a new system to the existing root partition |
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| 22:56.38 | seifferth | *Note: /old should be under your old root, of course, to save time in moving it |
| 22:57.25 | seifferth | 3. Copy some files over: |
| 22:59.54 | seifferth | Good choices here are /etc/fstab (which describes your LVM setup), /etc/crypttab (if it contains something of value), /etc/NetworkManager (might contain WiFi keys that are painful to type in again) and /var/lib/NetworkManager (it took me some time that this is where your NetworkManager's machine id is stored, and if that changed, some routers will want you to reauthenticate) |
| 23:00.36 | seifferth | Maybe also /etc/machine-id (although I can't remember anymore if I actually needed that one or not |
| 23:00.39 | seifferth | ) |
| 23:00.56 | seifferth | /etc/hostname if you care about it |
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| 23:01.28 | seifferth | (That is replace the content in / with that in /old/ |
| 23:02.03 | seifferth | Then you should be able to chroot into your new root |
| 23:02.38 | seifferth | (supposing it is mounted at `/mnt/` just do `chroot /mnt`) |
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| 23:02.48 | seifferth | Within that chroot, you can install packages and everything |
| 23:03.10 | seifferth | Then reboot, see if you missed something (e. g. installing a certain package) |
| 23:03.29 | seifferth | And if you did, go back to the live medium, mount, chroot, install, retry |
| 23:04.39 | seifferth | Also keep an eye out for how `/boot` is handled. |
| 23:05.13 | seifferth | It might be mounted or something |
| 23:05.17 | seifferth | Good luck |
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| 23:15.27 | lenswipe | just tried debootstrap |
| 23:15.34 | lenswipe | failed getting release |
| 23:17.53 | oxek | debootstrap should work, I used it a few minutes ago |
| 23:18.07 | oxek | what command did you run? |
| 23:20.24 | lenswipe | debootstrap stable $(pwd) http://deb.debian.org/debian/ |
| 23:20.40 | lenswipe | along with debootstrap buster $(pwd) http://deb.debian.org/debian/ |
| 23:23.25 | lenswipe | oxek, ^ |
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| 23:23.55 | oxek | lenswipe: is $(pwd) directory empty? |
| 23:24.09 | oxek | debootstrap requires the directory to be empty in order to work |
| 23:24.14 | lenswipe | No, there's an "old" folder in there |
| 23:24.30 | lenswipe | in this case though it's saying it cant get the release file from deb.debian.org |
| 23:24.59 | oxek | weird, deb.debian.org should work |
| 23:25.04 | oxek | are you running debootstrap with sudo? |
| 23:25.19 | lenswipe | yes |
| 23:25.20 | lenswipe | http://termbin.com/mbb9 |
| 23:25.51 | oxek | try https://deb.debian.org/debian/ |
| 23:25.59 | lenswipe | tried that |
| 23:26.08 | lenswipe | im about to try as root |
| 23:26.59 | oxek | I just ran 'sudo debootstrap --arch amd64 --variant minbase stable /stable-chroot/ https://deb.debian.org/debian/' and it all worked |
| 23:27.02 | lenswipe | nope |
| 23:27.10 | lenswipe | huh. ill try that |
| 23:27.57 | lenswipe | aj |
| 23:27.59 | lenswipe | ah |
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| 23:30.03 | oxek | this is the kind of output you should get https://paste.debian.net/hidden/de77e90d/ |
| 23:30.50 | lenswipe | yeah it worked |
| 23:30.59 | lenswipe | i just realized though - it never setup a user |
| 23:31.24 | lenswipe | is the expectation that i provide my own /etc/shadow /etc/groups? |
| 23:31.30 | oxek | nope |
| 23:31.43 | oxek | the expectation is that you chroot into it and do passwd for root and adduser for users |
| 23:31.44 | lenswipe | ?? |
| 23:31.49 | lenswipe | oh |
| 23:31.56 | lenswipe | how do you do that? |
| 23:32.29 | oxek | sudo chroot /path/to/debootstrapped/debian |
| 23:32.35 | another | you also need to setup timezone, hostname, hosts |
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| 23:32.59 | another | network |
| 23:33.01 | lenswipe | can i not copy all this stuff over? |
| 23:33.10 | oxek | you can |
| 23:33.22 | lenswipe | i have my new system in / and my old system in /old |
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| 23:36.05 | lenswipe | and if i copy my /etc/shadow and /etc/password over i shouldnt have to fart around with chroot, right? I could just get my users and groups back |
| 23:36.24 | lenswipe | shadow and groups even |
| 23:37.58 | oxek | depends. Beware of permissions when copying stuff into the new system. The uid,gid numbers will possibly differ |
| 23:42.04 | lenswipe | h |
| 23:42.05 | lenswipe | ah |
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| 23:44.07 | lenswipe | oxek, so, it looks like i have a read only filesystem |
| 23:44.09 | lenswipe | how do i fix that |
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