| 00:00.13 | *** join/#debian diniwed (~gavron@185.253.99.207) |
| 00:00.33 | lenswipe | another, any idea? |
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| 00:19.37 | icypee | hello |
| 00:20.01 | icypee | my mute button on my laptop won't turn off |
| 00:20.08 | icypee | so my mic is forever muted |
| 00:20.12 | icypee | how do i fix this |
| 00:20.13 | icypee | ? |
| 00:24.02 | frotz47 | do you have something like gstreamer-pulseaudio (not exact name) installed? |
| 00:24.30 | icypee | no |
| 00:24.52 | frotz47 | put that in an reboot |
| 00:25.04 | icypee | put it in? |
| 00:25.13 | frotz47 | install it |
| 00:25.32 | icypee | it worked before |
| 00:25.42 | icypee | why does it not work now? |
| 00:25.52 | frotz47 | mine did that until I installed it |
| 00:25.55 | lenswipe | anyone know anything about an error about a missing efi partition? |
| 00:26.06 | *** part/#debian tomyangsh (~Thunderbi@cpe-67-245-126-0.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:26.15 | icypee | what's the package name of the package i should install? |
| 00:28.47 | frotz47 | on buster it is gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio |
| 00:29.04 | petn-randall | lenswipe: That's probably the most vague problem description I've heard today. You need to provide some details for us to make anything out of it. |
| 00:29.34 | petn-randall | !ask |
| 00:29.34 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 00:29.38 | petn-randall | lenswipe: ^ |
| 00:29.45 | lenswipe | yep thanks ive already seen it |
| 00:30.43 | lenswipe | petn-randall, how's this: - i reinstalled my root partition using debootstrap and now my system boots but has no network or EFI partition |
| 00:30.56 | lenswipe | i get kicked into emergency mode |
| 00:31.39 | petn-randall | lenswipe: Ah, ok. Are you booting in EFI mode? If it gets to start grub and the kernel, I don't think you need it. |
| 00:31.43 | lenswipe | i am yes |
| 00:31.51 | frotz47 | was your /boot folder in root? |
| 00:31.56 | lenswipe | frotz47, it was yes |
| 00:32.05 | lenswipe | i have a backup of root, but theres nothing in /boot |
| 00:32.16 | petn-randall | lenswipe: Then your EFI should fail booting anything. |
| 00:32.33 | lenswipe | Well, it first kicked me into a read only filesystem |
| 00:32.33 | petn-randall | Without an EFI system partition, that is. |
| 00:32.41 | lenswipe | to fix that i copied fstab back over |
| 00:32.45 | lenswipe | and crypttab |
| 00:33.00 | lenswipe | now i have a writable filesystem, but no aparently no EFI |
| 00:33.07 | lenswipe | oh, and no network |
| 00:33.09 | lenswipe | so that's fun |
| 00:33.23 | frotz47 | the kernels are always in /boot |
| 00:33.53 | lenswipe | the empty folder on my backup disk disagrees |
| 00:33.59 | lenswipe | also, how come i can boot into something |
| 00:34.09 | lenswipe | surely the system should be unbootable if theres no kernel |
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| 00:34.23 | petn-randall | lenswipe: Is there a reason you are using debootstrap to install? Because you have to do a lot of manual work that the installer would otherwise do. |
| 00:34.45 | lenswipe | petn-randall, i have encrypted lvm and the installer doesn't seem to be able to open LUKS volumes |
| 00:34.46 | petn-randall | Checking and correcting /etc/fstab is just one of several things. |
| 00:35.04 | another | Hi. "I have a problem with _openssh_; I'm running Debian version _10.5_. When I try to do _listen on a vrf_ I get the following output _Routing domains are not supported on this platform_. I expected it to do _start sshd_." |
| 00:35.52 | lenswipe | petn-randall, well, it wasn't my idea |
| 00:35.59 | lenswipe | someone in here suggested it |
| 00:36.00 | frotz47 | lenswipe: where is your vmlinz in the backup? |
| 00:36.09 | lenswipe | frotz47, it's in / |
| 00:36.15 | lenswipe | should i copy it over? |
| 00:36.52 | frotz47 | that should be a soft link to a real one in /boot |
| 00:36.58 | lenswipe | ah shit |
| 00:38.15 | another | lenswipe: you do have en EFI system partition, right? |
| 00:38.15 | petn-randall | another: What do you mean with listening on a vrf? Can you show us your network setup and the sshd config you changed? |
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| 00:39.24 | frotz47 | thats Virtual Routing and Forwarding, heavy stuff |
| 00:39.37 | another | /etc/ssh/sshd_config: ListenAddress 192.0.2.5 rdomain vrf-foo |
| 00:39.42 | lenswipe | another, ....I /did/ |
| 00:40.00 | lenswipe | I can't imagine why I wouldn't still, but who knows |
| 00:40.26 | another | lenswipe: well, where did it go? |
| 00:40.31 | petn-randall | lenswipe: If it still exists, it needs to be mounted at /boot/efi on the system. |
| 00:40.39 | lenswipe | another, damned if i know |
| 00:40.40 | another | `lsblk -f` |
| 00:40.46 | lenswipe | thanks |
| 00:40.56 | lenswipe | the only thing i screwed around with is the root partition |
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| 00:41.40 | petn-randall | lenswipe: If you just copied over /etc/fstab, the UUID might have changed and need to be adjusted. |
| 00:42.11 | ryouma | so this debootstrap thing looks like something where you run it on a running system and it installs a debian under an empty subtree dir of some kind? and then you hanve to fixe a few things like passwords and such and then you can... move it and boot to it, or pivot to it or something? |
| 00:42.21 | frotz47 | lenswipe: if you are using LVM your root and /boot could have been seperate logical volumes |
| 00:42.48 | lenswipe | another, im not seeing any mention of efi in lsblk |
| 00:43.05 | lenswipe | petn-randall, could be. though, im not sure why it would have since i didn't reformat root |
| 00:43.08 | lenswipe | ryouma, yep. |
| 00:43.23 | ryouma | ok |
| 00:43.31 | lenswipe | frotz47, yeah, i have a weird feeling that i didn't put /boot on a logical volume at all |
| 00:43.32 | another | ryouma: pretty much, yeah. i almost exclusively install debian via debootstrap nowadays |
| 00:43.47 | lenswipe | frotz47, but if that's the case...where the hell is it |
| 00:43.52 | ryouma | another: why? |
| 00:44.20 | lenswipe | quick question, the output of lsblk isn't sensitive, is it? |
| 00:44.23 | ryouma | you can use your normal computer while it is installing, accessibility is set up for you already, etc. are the reasons it loks attractive |
| 00:44.31 | lenswipe | i cant imagine it would be but...im fine to dump it into a pastebin, right? |
| 00:44.49 | jmaher | ryouma: i find some thing easier still with the regular installer (e.g. setting up encrypted lvm partitions... ) |
| 00:45.07 | lenswipe | jmaher, well i already have envrypted lvm setup...i was just trying to replace the root partition |
| 00:45.13 | lenswipe | the regular installer doesn't seem to do so well with that |
| 00:45.36 | another | lenswipe: you can't boot EFI w/o an ESP |
| 00:45.45 | lenswipe | another, an ESP? |
| 00:45.52 | jmaher | lenswipe: i decided that was more effort that it was worth at some point and now I just reinstall - I also mess up some efi thing |
| 00:46.05 | jmaher | lenswipe: s/also/always/ |
| 00:46.08 | ryouma | interesting. i thought debootstarap was used by the installer, so it would be the same |
| 00:46.13 | lenswipe | another, ESP? |
| 00:46.19 | ryouma | ohl maybe installer does more |
| 00:46.24 | lenswipe | jmaher, im starting to come to the same conclusion |
| 00:46.29 | another | ryouma: gives me tons of flexibility to setup partitions and encryption the way i like |
| 00:46.48 | ryouma | and debootstrap doesn't do any partitioning? |
| 00:46.53 | ryouma | or encryption/ |
| 00:46.59 | frotz47 | wait... you can't put a /boot partion in a LVM volume because GRUB can't read it. I just remembered that. |
| 00:47.16 | lenswipe | frotz47, sounds about right |
| 00:47.36 | lenswipe | frotz47, is there any way to dump out where all my partitions are? |
| 00:47.57 | ryouma | lsblk is good |
| 00:48.01 | ryouma | blkid is good |
| 00:48.25 | lenswipe | what the shit |
| 00:48.32 | lenswipe | i just dumped out my fstab |
| 00:48.35 | lenswipe | ...it's empty |
| 00:48.36 | petn-randall | lenswipe: ESP is EFI system partition. Where the EFI looks for PE32 executables to boot from (grub). |
| 00:49.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1110] by debhelper |
| 00:49.08 | another | lenswipe: `fdisk -l` look for something that says EFI System partiotion (ESP) |
| 00:49.11 | petn-randall | another: Do you get any other log output when you try to start sshd? Also, how is your vrf set up? |
| 00:49.49 | petn-randall | another: TMK sshd support the Linux implementation of vrf. |
| 00:49.55 | petn-randall | *supports |
| 00:50.34 | lenswipe | another, im booted into a live session right now, will that still show? |
| 00:51.25 | another | Routing domains are not supported on this platform |
| 00:51.26 | another | /etc/ssh/sshd_config line 18: bad routing domain |
| 00:52.02 | petn-randall | lenswipe: Yes, as long as the disk isn't unplugged. |
| 00:52.02 | lenswipe | another, so the fstab on my computer is empty |
| 00:52.09 | another | petn-randall: yep. it does. works fine on my other distro |
| 00:52.11 | lenswipe | i guess that explains why /boot is apparently missing |
| 00:52.26 | lenswipe | it doesn't explain _why_ it's empty though after I copied it over |
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| 00:53.10 | another | here's the code to prove it: https://github.com/openssh/openssh-portable/blob/ea1f649046546a860f68b97ddc3015b7e44346ca/configure.ac#L834 |
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| 00:53.42 | lenswipe | another, found my EFI partition |
| 00:53.55 | kwami | Congratulations Debian users |
| 00:53.58 | lenswipe | it's in /dev/nvme01p1 |
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| 00:54.42 | petn-randall | another: Which Debian release are you running? Then I could check the buildd logs. |
| 00:55.06 | petn-randall | Oh right, was 10.5. |
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| 00:55.42 | kwami | 27 yrs old late 16 Aug 20 |
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| 00:56.35 | another | petn-randall: you mean this? https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=openssh&arch=amd64&ver=1%3A7.9p1-10%2Bdeb10u2&stamp=1580678421&raw=0 |
| 00:57.21 | another | for some reason configure does not find linux/if.h |
| 00:58.42 | petn-randall | kwami: Indeed! That was a few days ago. |
| 00:58.49 | another | lenswipe: if think you need to mount it under /boot/efi |
| 00:59.26 | lenswipe | another, so i just put my fstab file back and rebooted and /boot/efi is there |
| 00:59.33 | lenswipe | however im still getting kicked into emergency mode |
| 00:59.41 | lenswipe | oh and there are kernels in /boot now too |
| 00:59.48 | petn-randall | another: I guess the headers are installed during build time, and thus configure doesn't find them and builds openssh without vrf support. |
| 01:00.13 | frotz47 | grub files too? |
| 01:00.23 | lenswipe | frotz47, probably - what am i looking for? |
| 01:00.38 | lenswipe | oh yeah theres a grub folder |
| 01:00.42 | petn-randall | another: I'd file a bug report against openssh in Debian, asking to update the build dependencies. |
| 01:00.54 | lenswipe | i should stress....grub /is/ working. i get a grub screen and it boots |
| 01:01.09 | petn-randall | another: You can use `reportbug` for that. If you don't want to wait you can simply rebuild the package yourself with the package installed. |
| 01:01.12 | petn-randall | !ssb |
| 01:01.13 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
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| 01:01.39 | petn-randall | another: Roughly like this ^. Just don't use a sid deb-src line, but a buster one instead. |
| 01:02.00 | frotz47 | lenswipe maybe run update-grub |
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| 01:02.08 | lenswipe | frotz47, command not found |
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| 01:02.51 | another | petn-randall: the peculiar thing is that linux-libc-dev is reportedly installed on buildd |
| 01:03.08 | frotz47 | I get grub and grub2 mixed up, don't use often enough |
| 01:03.22 | lenswipe | update-grub2 is also not a thing apparently |
| 01:03.27 | lenswipe | oh, and i have no network so i cant install anything |
| 01:03.28 | lenswipe | so thats fun |
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| 01:05.25 | another | did you install grub after debootstraping? did you setup network/interfaces? did you install a kernel? |
| 01:05.38 | lenswipe | another, no, no and no |
| 01:05.46 | petn-randall | another: Indeed. Maybe something isn't passed to the configure line properly. |
| 01:06.11 | frotz47 | try grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg (back up grub.cfg first!) |
| 01:06.20 | lenswipe | frotz47, grub-mkconfig : commandnot found |
| 01:06.55 | another | can't run the command if it's not installed |
| 01:07.04 | lenswipe | another, no kidding |
| 01:07.10 | lenswipe | you know what else apparently isn't installed? |
| 01:07.12 | lenswipe | lspci |
| 01:07.30 | petn-randall | Things you need to do with debootstrap ... |
| 01:07.40 | petn-randall | Oh, and it doesn't install kernels, either. |
| 01:07.57 | lenswipe | petn-randall, why would it need to? |
| 01:07.59 | lenswipe | i have them in /boot |
| 01:08.05 | another | lspci is in pciutils |
| 01:08.21 | another | kernel updates? |
| 01:08.38 | lenswipe | for sure, but i shouldnt need kernel updates to get a basic system operational |
| 01:08.50 | petn-randall | lenswipe: /boot only carries the kernel bits to boot, most of it is elsewhere. |
| 01:08.55 | lenswipe | i see |
| 01:09.00 | lenswipe | so...how do i install a kernel? |
| 01:09.07 | lenswipe | can i just copy from my old system backup? |
| 01:09.49 | petn-randall | lenswipe: `apt install linux-image-amd64` most likely. |
| 01:09.57 | lenswipe | petn-randall, i have no network |
| 01:10.05 | lenswipe | cant apt install with no network connection |
| 01:10.13 | petn-randall | Then you need to set it up. |
| 01:10.17 | lenswipe | HOW?! |
| 01:10.17 | kwami | lenswipe use the kernel utils |
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| 01:10.31 | another | are you in a live system? |
| 01:10.33 | lenswipe | another, yes |
| 01:10.47 | another | chrooted into your install? |
| 01:10.49 | petn-randall | lenswipe: Boot a live system, chroot into your installation, and then run those commands. |
| 01:11.19 | lenswipe | another, oh sorry you mean like a live disk |
| 01:11.25 | lenswipe | i thought you meant like the system im working on |
| 01:11.29 | lenswipe | lemme boot into a live env |
| 01:12.04 | kwami | lenswipe: sorry for the interruption, what kind of prob are u facing |
| 01:12.23 | lenswipe | kwami, the short version is that I installed OBS from source and now my system is unbootable |
| 01:12.41 | lenswipe | (ron_burgundy.jpg) |
| 01:13.58 | kwami | did u run update-initramfs to check if theres any changes made on your grub |
| 01:15.56 | another | btw: i recommend grml as a rescue live system |
| 01:18.29 | kwami | are u able to get in at least through the advanced options |
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| 01:19.41 | lenswipe | petn-randall, just ran the apt install linux image |
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| 01:19.49 | lenswipe | petn-randall, should i do the grub thing too? |
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| 01:22.17 | frotz47 | lenswipe: to be safe yes |
| 01:23.04 | another | here's a list of packages you'll likely want to install after debootstrapping: |
| 01:24.18 | lenswipe | frotz47, what's that command again? |
| 01:24.59 | frotz47 | grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg |
| 01:25.28 | another | less locales lvm2 cryptsetup linux-image-amd64 grub-efi-amd64 |
| 01:25.58 | lenswipe | frotz47, cannot find a device for / (is /dev mounted?) |
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| 01:26.58 | lenswipe | frotz47, yikes im getting loads of errors about LC_ALL LC_MESSAGES not ebing able to find my refaul locale or something |
| 01:26.59 | another | did you mount proc, sys, dev ? |
| 01:27.06 | lenswipe | another, nope |
| 01:27.06 | frotz47 | before you chroot you have to mount into where you are chrooting |
| 01:27.16 | frotz47 | mount /dev |
| 01:27.19 | lenswipe | where? |
| 01:28.24 | frotz47 | mount -o bind /dev /mnt/dev if /mnt is your root |
| 01:28.25 | another | mount -t proc proc "$MOUNTPOINT"/proc ; mount -t sysfs sys "$MOUNTPOINT"/sys ; mount -o bind /dev "$MOUNTPOINT"/dev ; mount -t devpts devpts "$MOUNTPOINT"/dev/pts |
| 01:31.08 | another | things you'll likely want to do after debootstrapping: |
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| 01:32.25 | another | set timezone, set locales, config fstab, set hostname, set hosts, config crypttab, config network |
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| 01:38.20 | frotz47 | lenswipe: is this your first debootstrap install attempt? |
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| 02:17.29 | lenswipe | frotz47, yes it is |
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| 02:19.42 | frotz47 | debootstrap is a mostly manual procedure, you will need to do a lot of basic configuration of the system yourself |
| 02:20.52 | frotz47 | it is covered fully in the debian install guide |
| 02:21.31 | frotz47 | too much ground to cover here |
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| 02:59.15 | jakew_ | Any advice for an attempt at cross-grading (i386 to amd64) wherein I get to "apt upgrade" after swapping out dpkg, tar, and apt -- and apt tells me that for just about every package (I mean tons and tons of scrollback of this) that there is a dependency "but it is not installed" when clearly it is installed. I'm tempted to just to apt -f install which seems to want to remove about half the packages on my system and then upgrade the res |
| 02:59.17 | jakew_ | t, and then when that messes things up even more, just reinstall amd64 from scratch. Unless anyone here thinks there's a sane way to sort through this massive amount of dependency problems which apt has presented me with. |
| 03:00.00 | jakew_ | (the steps I'm referring to are in this document: https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading) |
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| 03:06.53 | dvs | !crossgrade |
| 03:06.53 | dpkg | Converting an i386 installation into an amd64 installation in-place is quite difficult. It's much easier to reinstall the system with the new architecture -- ask me about <install debian>. If you've got good backups, plenty of time and are feeling lucky, you can try https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading but really... good backups... |
| 03:07.10 | dvs | ok, I never tried it myself |
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| 03:18.01 | jakew_ | I have backups for sure but -- I guess I might as well reinstall and just copy the relevant part of config over |
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| 03:18.43 | jakew_ | it's about time to clear some stuff out, I think somehow my system is running a weird frankenstein combination of sysv and systemd somehow and it's really confusing and unpleasant |
| 03:19.49 | jakew_ | But it's strange that in that step just after installing apt, tar, and dpkg for amd64, apt thinks somehow that nothing has any dependencies installed |
| 03:21.05 | jakew_ | Oh well. Thanks y'all! |
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| 03:42.11 | lenswipe | hey folks |
| 03:42.15 | lenswipe | update-grub is hanging for me |
| 03:46.12 | b30wulf | got any more info |
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| 03:50.06 | lenswipe | b30wulf, sadly not |
| 03:50.16 | lenswipe | though it did just spit out "Generating grub configuration file" |
| 03:50.23 | lenswipe | so it might not have hung, it might just be slow |
| 03:50.38 | b30wulf | what kind of system is it on |
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| 03:56.49 | lenswipe | what do you mean what kind of system? |
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| 03:56.56 | lenswipe | its a laptop with an SSD and 16G of RAM |
| 03:57.10 | lenswipe | ...but it's using encrypted LVM - which google suggests can make grub take a long time to do its thing |
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| 04:09.28 | lenswipe | b30wulf, right now its saying my disks arent in the udev db |
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| 04:15.47 | Sark | So, I have a bit of a weirdness I don't know how to troubleshoot - the middle mouse button will make the menu appear but it immediately disappears. This happens both for the window options menu and for the configuration menu in xterm when you hold down control and middle click. |
| 04:16.04 | Sark | I'm running Debian current stable. |
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| 04:36.28 | ryouma | what software window? |
| 04:37.14 | ryouma | firefox has a huge bug where if you right click on left side and release the menu will stay but if you do it on the right side there is no room for the menu so it decides to just select wherever the pointer was |
| 04:39.01 | Sark | So, I'm having more than just that problem with menus working - in Chrome, I have the same sort of problem, where I click the three-dots menu and it flickers on the screen and goes away immediately.... sometimes. Some Chrome windows it works - others it does not. |
| 04:39.27 | Sark | The middle click thing - I'm trying to bring up the menu in xterm when you hold control and middle click... it flickers on the screen and immediately disappears. |
| 04:39.34 | Sark | Same thing with the window options menu. |
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| 04:40.19 | Sark | Just by middle clicking on the root window, I should get a window options menu, but it just flickers on the screen for a split second and goes away. |
| 04:41.31 | themill | those are click-and-hold menus not click-and-release |
| 04:41.53 | Sark | Oh, I know. |
| 04:41.56 | Sark | I'm clicking and holding. |
| 04:42.02 | Sark | It just doesn't stay on the screen. |
| 04:42.44 | Sark | It's weird, because I have two Chrome windows open right now. On one, I can click and hold the three-dots menu and it works fine. |
| 04:42.53 | ryouma | it is better for accessibility when a menu can be click once and it sticks there wherehr or not it also clicks and does stuff |
| 04:43.00 | Sark | The other one - doesn't work at all. If I click rapidly on it, I can see it flickering into existence. |
| 04:43.13 | themill | what does "click rapidly" mean? |
| 04:43.31 | Sark | click click click click click click click click click |
| 04:43.56 | Sark | Clicking and holding does not work on one window - it does on another. |
| 04:44.01 | themill | fun |
| 04:44.04 | Sark | And, the middle click menus I can't get to work anywhere. |
| 04:44.14 | Sark | And I *really* need the window options menu. |
| 04:44.30 | themill | I don't have middle click hardware that can click-and-hold so I can't test that; ctrl+click is working fine here in xterm |
| 04:44.41 | Sark | VLC keeps wanting to randomly spawn with the title bar off the screen. |
| 04:44.54 | Sark | And I can't open the window options menu so I can' |
| 04:44.56 | Sark | t move it. |
| 04:45.08 | Sark | Control click works - but there are three different menus. |
| 04:45.09 | themill | Alt+Drag moves windows in most window managers |
| 04:45.29 | Sark | Apparently not in twm. |
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| 04:45.37 | Sark | I usually use the window options menu. |
| 04:45.44 | Sark | But I can't get it to open. |
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| 04:45.58 | themill | I've not really used twm for 22 years so I'm not going to be much more assistance here |
| 04:46.23 | Sark | xterm has a control-middle click menu. |
| 04:46.28 | Sark | But it doesn't work. |
| 04:46.42 | Sark | It flickers on the screen when I release the middle button. |
| 04:47.17 | themill | My recollection is that all these menus are supposed to disappear when you release. |
| 04:47.26 | themill | (Not a design I ever liked) |
| 04:47.26 | Sark | This is correct |
| 04:47.41 | Sark | I mean, I'm happy with the design - I like that style of menu a lot. |
| 04:48.05 | Sark | The left and right click menus work. |
| 04:48.50 | Sark | And the middle click menu works on my other PC, also running Debian current. It's the VT Options menu. |
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| 04:49.02 | Sark | I actually genuinely really like the menu interface xterm has. |
| 04:49.07 | Sark | And twm. |
| 04:49.32 | Sark | But I just don't get why middle click doesn't work on this one machine. |
| 04:49.51 | Sark | The Chrome menu thing I've had problems with for years and never been able to figure out. |
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| 04:50.03 | Sark | The three-dots menu in Chrome doesn't work on any of my machines. |
| 04:50.24 | Sark | I've taken to just memorizing the keyboard shortcuts. |
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| 07:17.54 | Deknos | is anyone aware if ansible 2.10 has a chance being in the next debian release next year? |
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| 07:20.19 | fireba11 | Deknos: hm, currently debian testing has ansible 2.9.9 .. nut sure if it'll get another bump |
| 07:21.05 | themill | if it's ready and the maintainers are happy then there's a good chance |
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| 07:21.33 | Deknos | sits here hoping... |
| 07:21.40 | themill | note that the maintainers are pretty good at uploading ansible to backports so you can always get it from there |
| 07:23.15 | jelly | must be very lucky if just one version of ansible can cover all your systems and needs |
| 07:24.43 | jelly | we're using, I think, three right now, some to manage older OSes, some because newer modules are hopelessly broken when older still work bu tneed older ansible |
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| 07:28.55 | themill | tries to be lucky |
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| 09:25.14 | jhutchins | jelly: That's actually good to hear. I thought it was just me, that things that were supposed to work were broken AF. |
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| 09:27.03 | jelly | that's just how software written by developers for developers works these days. Expect no stability |
| 09:28.32 | jelly | need to adjust expectations from how things worked, say, 10 or 20 years back |
| 09:29.02 | nkuttler | or use tools from 10 or 20 years back |
| 09:30.19 | jelly | 1 admin would have managed 20-50 systems back then. Today it's more like 500-1000 |
| 09:30.25 | hegemoOn | hello, do i need to reboot after disabling all hibernate/suspend in systemd ? |
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| 09:30.58 | hegemoOn | https://wiki.debian.org/Suspend#Disable_suspend_and_hibernation |
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| 09:32.52 | hegemoOn | it's written to reboot |
| 09:33.00 | hegemoOn | but i dont know for which case it applies |
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| 09:45.12 | Fromhell | hallo , |
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| 10:01.20 | nvz | there is nothing that requires a reboot |
| 10:02.00 | epitamizer | except kernel panics |
| 10:03.02 | nvz | throws the HHGTTG at epitamizer |
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| 10:10.15 | Fromhell | some one can help ? |
| 10:10.26 | nvz | with what? |
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| 10:11.35 | Fromhell | nvz , i have problem put, command w , and it shows 6 users, but logged only 2 |
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| 10:13.26 | nvz | I don't see any probleem |
| 10:18.37 | Fromhell | what you mean ? |
| 10:19.19 | nvz | what YOU mean? |
| 10:19.55 | Fromhell | why logged 2 user, show 6 ? |
| 10:20.07 | petn-randall | Deknos: Yes, it will be. |
| 10:20.24 | Deknos | <3 |
| 10:20.29 | Deknos | thanks petn-randall |
| 10:20.30 | petn-randall | Deknos: Or any later release if it comes out by then. |
| 10:20.38 | nvz | Fromhell: I'm sure you're aware of the fact you're not speaking clear english, and that you've not provided any output of this command. I have no idea what you're talking about |
| 10:20.55 | nvz | Fromhell: different things are considered login sessions, use of sudo, screen, etc.. |
| 10:21.24 | nvz | the w command shows you exactly how many logins you have.. who it is, what they are running, etc |
| 10:21.36 | nvz | idk what more you want to know |
| 10:21.44 | petn-randall | Deknos: 2.10 has some quite big changes, so it'll take a little longer than usual to package it. But it will definitely be packaged by me before the bullseye release. |
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| 11:11.20 | wrksx_ | hello there |
| 11:11.51 | wrksx_ | I've a remote server that fails to boot |
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| 11:12.37 | wrksx_ | I'm able to start a rescue system (provided by the hoster) and see my partitions, I've been able to chroot into my old root |
| 11:13.16 | wrksx_ | now I need to diagnose what goin wrong, and I don't know how to check what's failing during boot. |
| 11:13.42 | fireba11 | wrksx_: check your (kernel) logs :-) |
| 11:14.03 | wrksx_ | you mean /var/log/kern.log ? |
| 11:14.45 | wrksx_ | fireba11: any help would be apreciated to locate those logs |
| 11:14.50 | wrksx_ | =) |
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| 11:20.15 | wrksx_ | the /var/log/messages only contains messages from UFW |
| 11:24.39 | wrksx_ | Basically there should be boot logs in /var/log/messages, right ? |
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| 11:29.31 | fireba11 | sec, let me check |
| 11:35.09 | wrksx_ | ty |
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| 12:04.23 | petn-randall | wrksx_: You can always use qemu to boot a VM with the physical disks. You should then see any boot failure on screen. |
| 12:04.58 | wrksx_ | petn-randall: omg seems like a very nice solution |
| 12:05.31 | wrksx_ | petn-randall: but can that run in a console? |
| 12:05.43 | petn-randall | wrksx_: sure |
| 12:05.50 | wrksx_ | O-M-G |
| 12:06.11 | wrksx_ | I'll try to have a look at qemu |
| 12:06.37 | petn-randall | wrksx_: Let me look for the exact command, I remember a blog post from several years back. |
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| 12:06.55 | wrksx_ | petn-randall: neat. thanks a lot |
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| 12:09.26 | petn-randall | wrksx_: https://blog.eulinux.org/2018/07/hetzner-install.html |
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| 12:10.04 | petn-randall | wrksx_: It's not the exact blog post I was looking for, but you can see a qemu command there that with some changes will allow you to boot from the disks and get terminal output there, too. |
| 12:10.26 | fireba11 | sorry, am back ... am at work here :-P |
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| 12:10.52 | wrksx_ | petn-randall: wonderful, will look into it. seems promising |
| 12:10.54 | wrksx_ | ty |
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| 12:11.18 | petn-randall | wrksx_: The trick is -nographic, which will disable any video output, and create a serial port in the VM that can be used for a terminal. |
| 12:12.45 | fireba11 | wrksx_: technically kernel.log but messages also contains the boot log |
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| 12:18.05 | petn-randall | *kern.log |
| 12:23.25 | wrksx_ | nothing in kern.log |
| 12:23.48 | wrksx_ | it doesn't even mentionned the reboot I launched |
| 12:23.55 | wrksx_ | mention |
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| 12:25.57 | petn-randall | Then it probably never got past the initramfs stage. |
| 12:26.53 | oxek | in debian, if I install wireguard or zfs, it builds a kernel module and loads it using dkms. Are these modules built deterministically - will the resulting .ko modules have the same hash on every machine? |
| 12:28.27 | petn-randall | oxek: Assuming everything else is the same, I'd guess yes. But AFAIK there's no guarantee for it yet. |
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| 12:28.53 | petn-randall | "reproducible builds" is a release target for bullseye. |
| 12:29.46 | oxek | I know debian tries to do reproducible builds for the packages it distributes - but is that a target for the kernel modules that are built on user systems too? |
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| 12:34.05 | wrksx_ | petn-randall: what's weird is that I expected to be able to find a "System is going to reboot" or some log like this somewhere |
| 12:34.12 | wrksx_ | and I can't find that |
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| 12:37.11 | CrystalMath | i'm finally going to try to completely be rid of devtmpfs |
| 12:37.36 | CrystalMath | this kernel 2.6+ garbage has been a plague in linux for a long time |
| 12:38.06 | jelly | best go back to 1.2.13 |
| 12:38.29 | jelly | who needs nonstatic /dev! /sbin/MAKEDEV ftw |
| 12:39.14 | CrystalMath | yep i have that |
| 12:39.28 | CrystalMath | i need to create /dev/rtc0 though :( |
| 12:39.36 | CrystalMath | until i patch the kernel |
| 12:39.44 | CrystalMath | how sad |
| 12:40.27 | CrystalMath | they killed off 10,135 in kernel 2.6 |
| 12:40.40 | CrystalMath | i'm running 4.19 |
| 12:41.04 | CrystalMath | i'll change the kernel RTC code, to, if CONFIG_DEVTMPFS is not set, create a device for rtn0 at 10,135 |
| 12:41.11 | CrystalMath | *rtc0 |
| 12:41.41 | CrystalMath | my mind is not working yet, though, still waking up |
| 12:42.26 | jelly | huh, I did not notice the major,minor changed |
| 12:42.42 | CrystalMath | yeah now it's 252,0 |
| 12:42.45 | CrystalMath | where 252 is dynamic |
| 12:42.52 | CrystalMath | and changes |
| 12:43.02 | CrystalMath | i figure they need space for a lot of RTCs |
| 12:43.08 | CrystalMath | but why not keep 10,135 |
| 12:43.12 | CrystalMath | to point to the first one |
| 12:43.18 | CrystalMath | for compatibility's sake |
| 12:43.26 | jelly | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 12:43.28 | CrystalMath | i'll have to write a patch myself and apply it to the kernel |
| 12:43.38 | jelly | crw-rw---- 1 root audio 254, 0 2016-04-14 23:25 /dev/rtc0 # Debian 5, 2.6.26 kernel |
| 12:43.47 | CrystalMath | yep |
| 12:43.56 | CrystalMath | this disaster happened a long time ago |
| 12:43.58 | jelly | I don't have any older Debians |
| 12:44.06 | CrystalMath | debian buzz has it at 10,135 |
| 12:44.30 | jelly | (well I do, but they're running custom kernels) |
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| 12:44.54 | CrystalMath | kernel 2.4 was really good |
| 12:45.11 | jelly | who needs a hwclock anyway |
| 12:45.33 | CrystalMath | it's possible for a script to recreate rtc0 dynamically |
| 12:45.35 | jelly | billions of raspberry pies live without it |
| 12:45.50 | jelly | are you going to reinvent udev badly |
| 12:46.10 | CrystalMath | in /sys/class/rtc/rtc0/dev you can find major:minor |
| 12:46.17 | CrystalMath | a tiny script won't be udev |
| 12:46.29 | CrystalMath | it's just a bugfix |
| 12:46.39 | CrystalMath | until the kernel is restored to its 2.4 glory |
| 12:47.06 | CrystalMath | plus, my script will NOT use devtmpfs |
| 12:47.19 | CrystalMath | it will create a real file in the real /dev |
| 12:47.35 | CrystalMath | rm it if it's not good already |
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| 12:49.15 | CrystalMath | jelly: i may also use devtmpfs without udev |
| 12:49.22 | CrystalMath | which is the case now |
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| 12:49.31 | CrystalMath | devtmpfs mounted, but no userspace monitor |
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| 12:58.55 | wrksx_ | petn-randall: do you remember if it's needed to create an image of the disks, or if it's possible to use them inplace? |
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| 13:02.59 | CrystalMath | i wonder, do i really need an initrd |
| 13:04.04 | jelly | which debian release are you targeting |
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| 13:04.41 | CrystalMath | jelly: i'm on buster |
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| 13:06.18 | jelly | I gave up on bootable kernels w/o initrd around wheezy |
| 13:06.51 | jelly | might be doable in theory |
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| 13:08.48 | CrystalMath | jelly: yeah i figure, it's not really necessary |
| 13:08.53 | CrystalMath | as long as ext4 is built-in |
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| 13:10.24 | CrystalMath | err, it doesn't really look like i have anything in the initrd... |
| 13:11.10 | CrystalMath | guess i can just get rid of it |
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| 13:12.20 | jelly | remember to have all of the: scsi support, scsi controller, scsi disk (sd), filesystem drivers built in |
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| 13:12.48 | CrystalMath | well they're not in the initrd |
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| 13:13.54 | petn-randall | wrksx_: It works with them in place. So "-hda /dev/sda -hdb /dev/sdb" should do the trick. |
| 13:14.49 | Porkepix | Hello, I would have a question regarding Debian's AWS AMIs. It appears that the default user have a very small $PATH, even when called through sudo, especially it's missing all the sbin variants, is that normal/on purpose? This leads to commands like visudo being not found by default. |
| 13:14.59 | petn-randall | Booting without initrd works in theory, but fails on things like LUKS, lvm or mdraid that need userspace to set things up. |
| 13:15.25 | petn-randall | Porkepix: How are you calling sudo exactly? |
| 13:17.07 | Porkepix | petn-randall: Directly without more arguments for my tests (eg. sudo visudo), as I was doing some debug, the initial problem was encountered through Ansible, with the become blag. I guess this also calls sudo without much more flags (though I could check with verbose flags) |
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| 13:17.50 | jelly | Porkepix, what does sudo sh -c 'echo $PATH' say |
| 13:17.50 | petn-randall | Porkepix: You need to call "sudo -i", or your $PATH won't be updated. |
| 13:18.21 | jelly | but -i is only for the interactive shell |
| 13:18.22 | CrystalMath | jelly: hmm, it really isn't builtin, it seems, it's a modlue, but the cpio initrd.img has nothing inside |
| 13:18.49 | petn-randall | login shell. "interactive" and "login" are, weirdly enough diametrical to each other. |
| 13:19.05 | CrystalMath | perhaps i'm not reading it correctly |
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| 13:19.21 | Porkepix | jelly: /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin, which is the same I have from within sudo -s. Calling sudo -i give me a more complete path, but is not the default Ansible way of doing privilege escalation |
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| 13:19.57 | petn-randall | jelly: https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/50667 |
| 13:20.27 | petn-randall | Porkepix: Are you using command/shell modules, or where is the issue exactly? |
| 13:20.29 | Porkepix | petn-randall: This is, I was doing debug from terminal, but my initial problem is from within Ansible, which use become flags to do privilege escalation. I was quite surprised not to find sbin directories by defaul inside $PATH? |
| 13:20.55 | petn-randall | Porkepix: IMHO that's not surprising at all. |
| 13:21.17 | Porkepix | petn-randall: None of them, it was more something like that: https://mindleaking.org/privatebin/?e8c7f47d4b97eb05#f5+/ligHEPAJtEp+EwUWtlHComMSVbUAgdLKkju+A6o= |
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| 13:21.32 | petn-randall | Porkepix: If you use sudo without any parameters, then your $PATH stays the same, and that doesn't include /usr/sbin/ and /sbin/ |
| 13:21.45 | petn-randall | Porkepix: I agree though that it's counter-intuitive. |
| 13:22.04 | Porkepix | Why not having them by default? |
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| 13:22.26 | petn-randall | Porkepix: Because you need to be root for most of them. |
| 13:22.45 | petn-randall | Porkepix: The solution is to use the full path, which is better from a security standpoint, anyway. |
| 13:23.21 | Porkepix | petn-randall: Yup, but considering those AMIs are shipped with sudo built-in for the main user, it would makes sense to have access to those commands from your $PATH imho |
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| 13:24.13 | petn-randall | Porkepix: That would create habits that work on AMIs, but not on other Debian instances. That would probably create a lot more head-scratching and user support in the long run. |
| 13:24.45 | petn-randall | Porkepix: Look at it the other way: Why would you want autocompletion for commands in /sbin/ that you can't call as normal user, anyway? |
| 13:25.11 | petn-randall | Porkepix: If you want $PATH to be set properly with sudo, you can use the -i flag. |
| 13:25.25 | themill | I have no problems using commands from sbin with "become_method: sudo" in ansible and I don't recall doing anything to make that possible |
| 13:25.27 | Porkepix | It's not only about completion, because here when `sudo visudo` gets called, it only get a command not found error |
| 13:25.40 | Porkepix | And this is without considering any autocompletion |
| 13:26.44 | petn-randall | Porkepix: Ok, but you explicitely requested for your environment *not* to be overwritten by calling 'sudo visudo'. If you want that, run 'sudo -i visudo'. |
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| 13:27.49 | Porkepix | themill: Mmmh, curious. I do have a few flags sets in the ansible.cfg, but none of them seems to mess around $PATH to me |
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| 13:28.37 | f8e4 | hi, how to gunzip the f.zip to a folder ./foo ? |
| 13:28.55 | Porkepix | petn-randall: Nope, I called it that way from my terminal for debug purpose, as seens in the paste above, I let Ansible deal with flags, I didn't specified sudo myself on the command. It's quite strange that themill seems to have it working though |
| 13:29.17 | wrksx_ | petn-randall: can't make it work, reading some more doc and examples... Do you think it makes a diff that my drives have raid configured? |
| 13:29.52 | petn-randall | wrksx_: No. |
| 13:30.07 | Kobaz | sooooooooooooo. i just got amdgpu firmware finally loaded and I can startx as root but not as a user... any tips and tricks? https://dpaste.com/GM4EK9MR2 |
| 13:30.32 | Kobaz | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:31.15 | wrksx_ | petn-randall: just what I though. Basically QEMU hangs, prints nothing. |
| 13:31.16 | wrksx_ | sudo qemu-system-x86_64 -snapshot -m 4G -hda /dev/sda -hdb /dev/sdb -nographic -net none |
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| 13:32.27 | petn-randall | wrksx_: -snapshot won't work, since you're passing blank disks through. |
| 13:33.06 | petn-randall | Porkepix: Do you have ansible pipelining enabled? That interfers with sudo usage. |
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| 13:33.14 | wrksx_ | petn-randall: doc said it makes the process read only |
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| 13:35.03 | wrksx_ | petn-randall: The output of the VM should start directly in my teerminal, no need to use CTRL-A C or any tricks, is that correct? |
| 13:35.31 | petn-randall | Porkepix: Just for science purposes, can you set "-i" here and see if that changed? https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/reference_appendices/config.html#default-become-flags |
| 13:35.50 | petn-randall | themill: sudo behaviour changed between Debian 9 and 10, IIRC. |
| 13:37.09 | themill | petn-randall: indeed; I'm using ansible 2.7 with both stretch and buster remotes with that config. |
| 13:37.39 | oxek | Is the wireless-tools package necessary for anything anymore or can I safely delete it and use the 'iw' package instead? |
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| 13:43.14 | Porkepix | petn-randall: Yes, pipelining is enabled. How can it interfers? |
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| 13:44.37 | Porkepix | petn-randall: As for -i, gonna try, but for a bit more of context, I'm trying to figure out what's specific here. We currently have part of our infrastructure running Ubuntu server, and part running Debian. Ansible is used for a long time on the Ubuntu paart, and all of this works as is. Now trying to add support for the first parts on the Debian part of the infra, and I'm running in this kind of |
| 13:44.39 | Porkepix | specificities |
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| 13:51.59 | Porkepix | (An yes, while /usr/sbin/ can easily be added in front of the command it wouldn't have given the explanation) |
| 13:52.03 | Porkepix | And* |
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| 14:00.00 | petn-randall | Porkepix: Yes, I'm just suggesting -i as a test, not as a solution. |
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| 14:01.10 | petn-randall | Porkepix: https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/reference_appendices/config.html#ansible-pipelining |
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| 14:02.21 | petn-randall | heads out for lunch. |
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| 14:05.40 | macc24 | is it possible to make a package that would build itself from git when there is no official release? |
| 14:05.47 | macc24 | something like -git packages in archlinux |
| 14:07.10 | Porkepix | petn-randall: Enjoy your meal then :) ; thanks for the pointers. Gonna rely on absolute path I guess, though having [/usr[/local]]/sbin in paths would have make sense imho :) |
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| 14:07.44 | Porkepix | (Testing with -i would actually be a little bit more annoying than expected) |
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| 14:08.39 | oxek | during debian installation, I am asked which display manager I want to use by default. The options are gdm3, lightdm, sddm. Which one should I pick? |
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| 14:12.45 | another | which desktop environment are you planning on using? |
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| 14:21.51 | LCRERGO | It is not possible to use musl-clang in debian, without compiling it by hand? |
| 14:23.40 | oxek | another: I don't know yet. I installed them all. |
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| 14:48.28 | no_gravity | I wonder if my coindecide script could have any issues in real life: alias coindecide='if (( RANDOM % 2 == 0 )); then echo Yes; else echo No; fi' |
| 14:48.37 | no_gravity | When I test it, it seems pretty fair. |
| 14:48.47 | no_gravity | But in real life, I've got 165 Heads and 218 Tails from my dice and I am beginning to think it might be borked. |
| 14:51.01 | jelly | how about 10000 or 100000 runs |
| 14:51.28 | jelly | 400 seems a bit on the low side |
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| 14:53.29 | mlxprojects | Hi all, is there any way to use qemu-arm-static for executing another arch binaries within a shell, but without having BINFMT_MISC enabled? |
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| 14:53.32 | no_gravity | jelly: That is what I mean with "when I test it, it seems fair". |
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| 14:54.04 | no_gravity | jelly: I wonder if it could behave unfair under certain conditions. Like the first throw after a reboot. Or the first throw in a new shell. |
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| 15:03.50 | jelly | implementors of $RANDOM in your shell would know. Typically it's a cheap PRNG with good quality. |
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| 15:04.05 | jelly | seeded from who knows what |
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| 15:09.42 | no_gravity | Internet broke. I'm back. Did anyone say something about the coin? |
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| 15:16.31 | jelly | nope |
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| 15:19.18 | no_gravity | I find it hard to imagine how "RANDOM % 2" could be biased, but I might change it just to be on the save side. |
| 15:19.36 | no_gravity | This page gives a p value of 0.0078 for a coin coming up with 218 Tails and 165 Heads: https://www.graphpad.com/quickcalcs/binomial1/ |
| 15:19.49 | AimHere | Can't you just try spamming it a few hundred more times to see if it repeats the issue? |
| 15:20.01 | mason | no_gravity: Historically there was an RNG bug where the least significant bit was predictable and cyclic, so folks would take the next bit for a random coin flip. |
| 15:20.06 | Haohmaru | i think on some of the dumbest LFSRs the lowest bit alternates |
| 15:20.23 | subcool | Can i have help please. I am havin an issue with a port and a Vbox guest. According to the forums... what i need to do is provide the "proper" path and address of the USB/serial converter im trying to use. But- when i do, it still isnt visable to the Guest OS. Honestly, im pretty sure whats wrong is on my host side. but- any help please. |
| 15:20.27 | greycat | bash's PRNG is *not* one of the better ones |
| 15:20.32 | no_gravity | AimHere: Not if the bias appears on first coinflip after boot or under some other special cicumstance. |
| 15:20.41 | mason | This gives rise to my favourite signature quotes: awake ? sleep : random() & 2 ? dream : sleep; -- Hamlet, Act III, Scene I |
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| 15:20.49 | no_gravity | AimHere: I tried it in a loop of course. Then it was very fair. |
| 15:20.53 | subcool | Ive been following forums like this: https://askubuntu.com/questions/16586/how-to-access-serial-ubuntu-host-serial-port-on-virtualbox-guest-os |
| 15:20.55 | mason | ...implemented across a couple languages. |
| 15:20.58 | no_gravity | AimHere: But my real world manual results make me wonder. |
| 15:21.09 | AimHere | Does sound like the initial random seed might be nonoptimally random |
| 15:21.32 | mason | AimHere: Wasn't about the seed, was about the actual random numbers generated. |
| 15:21.56 | subcool | I need com1 available. And it appears to be on the guest side. |
| 15:22.08 | greycat | If you care *at all* about the quality of your pseudo random numbers, you do not use bash's $RANDOM. |
| 15:22.09 | no_gravity | What was the random device that stalls if the entropy pool is empty? |
| 15:22.27 | greycat | Bash's $RANDOM is fine for playing a random song or something. Not for crypto stuff. |
| 15:22.35 | AimHere | If his record is of numbers being generated on bootup, then that's likely to be a seeding issue - especially if running the random numbers in a script comes up with more plausible results |
| 15:22.36 | greycat | no_gravity: that's obsolete. |
| 15:22.38 | no_gravity | /dev/random or /dev/urandom? |
| 15:22.46 | greycat | please read "man 4 random" |
| 15:23.01 | no_gravity | AimHere: They are generated whenever I feel like I want a random decision for something in my life. |
| 15:23.45 | Haohmaru | use the tail gestures of a semi-annoyed cat as a source of randomness |
| 15:23.56 | Haohmaru | that works well IMO |
| 15:24.28 | AimHere | I like just tossing a physical coin. The time between tossing the coin and it landing will probably clue you in as to which way up you want the coin to land |
| 15:24.38 | AimHere | Then you go with what you want instead of what the coin says |
| 15:25.18 | Haohmaru | once when i threw a cigarette on the ground, it landed on its filter, standing up |
| 15:25.50 | mason | Haohmaru: too much lipstick |
| 15:25.51 | Haohmaru | and once it landed on a tree/bush leaf |
| 15:25.56 | Haohmaru | wut, no |
| 15:26.01 | Haohmaru | >:/ |
| 15:26.57 | petn-randall | Porkepix: Meal was great, thanks :). It should be enough to run `ANSIBLE_BECOME_FLAGS="-i" ansible-playbook -l <your affected debian server> ....` for testing purposes. |
| 15:27.25 | petn-randall | Porkepix: It would be great to know if that's the issue, as the ansible package maintainer I'm always interested in bugs/issues users run into. |
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| 15:53.40 | Porkepix | petn-randall: Thing is, as it's some ansible that's pulled and run as bootstrap-script from the user-data on instance-creation, I would need to commit into master such tests, which I would like to avoid if possible. As for running from the instance, it seems I was unable to reproduce it the same way it was. For the record though, we already have those flags set in ansible.cfg: `become_flags= |
| 15:53.42 | Porkepix | SSH_AUTH_SOCK="$SSH_AUTH_SOCK" -H -S -n` |
| 15:54.12 | Porkepix | :q |
| 15:54.17 | Porkepix | Wops, sorry |
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| 16:01.52 | no_gravity | This might be a shorter way to read one byte from /dev/random: head -c 1 /dev/random |
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| 16:13.32 | Wulf | Good Morning! I'm getting warnings about missing firmware (amd/sev) on boot: https://paste.debian.net/1160392/ ; What is that for and where do I get the firmware? Or can I safely ignore this? |
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| 16:32.59 | diogenes_ | Wulf, from here: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/tree/amd |
| 16:34.33 | sney | ,file amd/amd_sev_fam17h_model3xh.sbin |
| 16:34.39 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 16:34.46 | sney | hrm, they did update the debian package pretty recently |
| 16:34.50 | sney | ,file amd/amd_sev_fam17h_model3xh.sbin --release sid |
| 16:34.55 | judd | No packages in sid/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 16:36.11 | sney | of course, debian's firmware-nonfree is from June 19th and this blob was added a month later. /me shakes fist at hardware vendors |
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| 16:37.03 | sney | Wulf: some firmware blobs are optional. if your system's graphics appear to be working fine, you can ignore the warning |
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| 16:43.06 | petn-randall | Porkepix: I'm glad to hear you're a vim user ;) |
| 16:43.08 | petn-randall | Thanks |
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| 17:12.07 | lenswipe | quick question folks |
| 17:12.24 | lenswipe | ive just done a reinstall with debootstrap and i need to bring the network up |
| 17:12.26 | lenswipe | how do i do that? |
| 17:12.34 | lenswipe | im chrooted into my live env |
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| 17:13.24 | sney | as long as the network devices are available in your chroot, the usual /etc/network/interfaces approach should work fine |
| 17:13.27 | greycat | Then the networking should have been activated in the booted system. Are you asking what files to change inside the chroot so that networking will work once you actually boot the Debian system? |
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| 17:27.42 | Sark | So, I've narrowed my middle click problem being something to do with the actual handling of the middle button itself - I changed the .twmrc file to bind the window options menu to the right button, and it works fine. |
| 17:27.46 | Sark | So it's not a problem with twm. |
| 17:28.07 | Sark | And since the middle click menu thing happens in xterm too, it's definitely related. |
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| 17:28.40 | Sark | So... how is it that Linux handles mice and input devices these days? I'm doing some research, and I keep finding stuff about the way it used to work, but I'm a bit out of the loop with systemd and the current arrangements. |
| 17:28.52 | Sark | Surely there can't be anything really strange happening, it's just a normal, ordinary mouse. |
| 17:29.32 | Sark | Also... there is something wrong with the keyboard bindings too - at one point I crashed twm with a futzed keystroke in the .twmrc file and couldn't get ANY of the menus up - and control-alt-backspace doesn't work. |
| 17:29.41 | greycat | you could use xev to make sure the mouse button events are coming through properly |
| 17:30.56 | Sark | Ah hah! Good idea - and no, they are *not* coming through properly. |
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| 17:31.21 | Sark | When I click the middle button, nothing happens, until I *release* the middle button - then I get two events, one for press and one for release. |
| 17:31.37 | Sark | The left and right buttons work as one would expect. |
| 17:31.43 | greycat | I get the same. Dunno why. |
| 17:31.49 | Sark | And I know it's not the mouse itself, because I've tried two of them. |
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| 17:34.54 | Sark | The other weird thing is that if I click the middle button and hold it down - I can't move the mouse. |
| 17:35.16 | greycat | Same here. I've never tried to do that before -- not sure why I would. |
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| 17:36.05 | greycat | Oh wait, there *is* one time I'd want to do that -- trying to drag windows around inside the FvwmPager. That stopped working a while ago and I never knew why. Now I guess I do, sort of. |
| 17:36.21 | Sark | So, I'm not crazy then! |
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| 17:44.41 | greycat | I found https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=248798 |
| 17:44.47 | greycat | " Xorg not sending middle mouse keypress until after key is released" |
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| 17:46.16 | karlpinc | I can press-and-hold the middle mouse button and move the mouse (xfwm4 I think). But a menu does pop up until I let go. |
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| 17:48.30 | diogenes_ | karlpinc, ? |
| 17:49.38 | greycat | Sadly there was no resolution, and I can't find any other reports. Maybe you should ask in #xorg. |
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| 17:52.55 | Porkepix | <petn-randall> Porkepix: I'm glad to hear you're a vim user ;) // eheh. I get confused sometimes with window focus on the maxis crap $job force onto me. It acts completely unpredictably⦠|
| 17:53.07 | Porkepix | Macos* |
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| 18:00.28 | petn-randall | greycat, Sark, FYI, middle click gives me a click event when pressing down, before releasing it. |
| 18:01.18 | greycat | I wonder what makes it different for me and Sark. I have an actual 3-button mouse, no wheel. Maybe that's relevant? No idea. This is ordinary buster, startx, intel. |
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| 18:02.01 | petn-randall | I have a Logitech g502, which has a mouse wheel and also two extra thumb buttons. |
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| 18:04.40 | Wulf | diogenes_, sney: Thanks, that explains why it's not in debian yet. But still strange that I got that message on the buster kernel 4.19.0.9 which is probably older. |
| 18:05.25 | Wulf | oh, actually that was a slightly different message |
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| 18:07.25 | lenswipe | hey guys |
| 18:07.28 | lenswipe | folks* |
| 18:07.46 | lenswipe | I have a debootstrap'd install and I can't use apt |
| 18:08.00 | lenswipe | I tried installing a desktop with tasksel and that hung so I had to kill it |
| 18:08.30 | lenswipe | after that, if I try and use apt to install anything, it said that the geoclue path wasn't found in the dpkg overrides file |
| 18:08.33 | lenswipe | so i removed that |
| 18:08.39 | lenswipe | then it said it couldn't find the ssl-cert system group |
| 18:09.16 | sney | did you boot into debian or are you still in the chroot environment? |
| 18:09.45 | lenswipe | sney, im booted into debian right now |
| 18:10.13 | sney | then you probably missed a step along the way somewhere. |
| 18:10.14 | lenswipe | i ran tasksel from the chroot |
| 18:10.26 | lenswipe | what did i miss? |
| 18:10.31 | lenswipe | ive been at this since 6 last night |
| 18:10.35 | greycat | Start smaller. Don't run tasksel yet. Can you do basic things like "ping www.debian.org"? |
| 18:10.40 | lenswipe | greycat, yes |
| 18:10.42 | lenswipe | i can ping things |
| 18:10.54 | greycat | OK, then the next step is putting correct lines in sources.list |
| 18:10.57 | Sark | greycat: I also have ordinary three button mice with no wheel. |
| 18:10.57 | greycat | !buster sources.list |
| 18:10.58 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 18:11.01 | lenswipe | i think ive already done that |
| 18:11.14 | greycat | Sark: that sounds like a good thing to mention to #xorg |
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| 18:11.38 | greycat | lenswipe: does "apt-get update" work? |
| 18:11.43 | lenswipe | it does |
| 18:12.16 | greycat | then try installing a single package, ideally something small with few dependencies, like sl |
| 18:12.36 | lenswipe | https://gist.github.com/varqox/42e213b6b2dde2b636ef |
| 18:12.40 | lenswipe | ive been following that |
| 18:12.44 | lenswipe | i cant apt install anything |
| 18:13.39 | greycat | What does "apt-get install sl" do? |
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| 18:14.36 | lenswipe | dpkg unrecoverable error -unknown system group ssl-cert in statoverride file: the system group got removed |
| 18:14.37 | dpkg | You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, lenswipe |
| 18:15.21 | lenswipe | it tells me how to remove that from the statoverride file, but im a bit hesitant to in case it breaks something |
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| 18:15.30 | greycat | um... well, there is a /var/lib/dpkg/statoverride file and mine has 4 lines, but I don't know what they do |
| 18:15.45 | greycat | make a backup copy of it first |
| 18:16.09 | lenswipe | good idea |
| 18:16.29 | greycat | Even if you screw it up, it's not like you need dpkg for booting. So you can just restore the backup copy. |
| 18:16.50 | Sark | greycat: Is your mouse serial, PS/2, or USB? |
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| 18:17.15 | greycat | USB 3-button Logitech mouse, a couple decades old |
| 18:17.18 | lenswipe | greycat, and now i can intall things |
| 18:18.01 | lenswipe | time to reboot and see if i have a working desktop |
| 18:18.36 | Sark | OK - I've posed my question over there... see if I get any response. |
| 18:18.50 | Sark | I'll let you know what I find., |
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| 18:19.11 | lenswipe | greycat, so that's a no |
| 18:19.19 | lenswipe | if I run systemctl start gdm i just get a black screen |
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| 18:19.29 | greycat | you might need firmware for your video device |
| 18:19.48 | greycat | also, is it really "gdm", not gdm3? |
| 18:20.10 | lenswipe | maybe, but i haven't before |
| 18:20.43 | lenswipe | and gdm3 doesn't work either |
| 18:21.01 | inky | people of debian! |
| 18:21.02 | inky | i have updated my friend's old laptop from stretch to bullseye, step by step |
| 18:21.29 | inky | and now bullseye's kernel sees the touchpad in /proc/bus/input/devices |
| 18:21.32 | inky | it is ALPS |
| 18:21.43 | inky | but under X touchpad doesn't work. |
| 18:22.02 | inky | it was working before the upgrade. is there something known that ALPS drivers got removed or something? |
| 18:22.37 | greycat | !debian-next |
| 18:22.37 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 18:23.22 | inky | thanks |
| 18:26.02 | lenswipe | greycat, yep. looks like gnome is broken |
| 18:26.05 | lenswipe | i have just a black screen |
| 18:26.10 | lenswipe | nothing particularly interesting in dmesg |
| 18:27.04 | greycat | Did you check "dmesg | grep -i firmware"? |
| 18:29.33 | lenswipe | i did not |
| 18:29.36 | lenswipe | let me try |
| 18:35.27 | lenswipe | greycat, yeah theres stuff in there about bluetooth firmware and wifi firmware |
| 18:35.31 | lenswipe | nothing about graphics though |
| 18:36.01 | greycat | See if X works at all. Try "startx xterm" (assuming xterm is installed). |
| 18:36.49 | greycat | People who jump straight into GNOME + gdm3 without checking the core functionality first.... |
| 18:37.03 | lenswipe | well i uninstalled xorg a while ago so it wont work right now |
| 18:37.08 | lenswipe | but im re-installing gnome with tasksel |
| 18:37.11 | lenswipe | it did work though for a while |
| 18:37.23 | greycat | oh, you're trying *wayland*? yikes, good luck. |
| 18:37.26 | lenswipe | i ran startx and got to a prompt |
| 18:37.33 | lenswipe | what? no |
| 18:37.40 | lenswipe | i uninstalled it to try re-installling it |
| 18:38.35 | lenswipe | greycat, okay, so startx xterm does indeed work |
| 18:39.39 | lenswipe | i just ran sudo systemctl start gdm |
| 18:39.44 | lenswipe | tty1 is now a black screen |
| 18:39.54 | greycat | there might be some clues in the Xorg.0.log file after gdm3 tries and fails |
| 18:40.07 | lenswipe | where is that? |
| 18:40.11 | greycat | !xorg.0.log |
| 18:40.11 | dpkg | Xorg.0.log is in /var/log/ unless you are on stretch-or-later and running X as non-root. Then it's in ~/.local/share/xorg/ instead. |
| 18:40.32 | lenswipe | hmm |
| 18:40.42 | lenswipe | its saying dell touchpad, dell power button, dell video device: device removed |
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| 18:43.35 | n4dir | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:43.45 | greycat | startx does not start *dm |
| 18:44.11 | n4dir | pretty sure that if i disabled a display manager and then i ran startx it simply put me to the display manager |
| 18:44.27 | n4dir | stopped, if i disabled it worked. duh |
| 18:44.31 | greycat | nope. not in my experience. |
| 18:44.44 | n4dir | then we have to agree about another thing |
| 18:44.46 | lenswipe | n4dir, startx works. |
| 18:45.18 | n4dir | looks to me as if something would be wrong with gdm then. But what that might be i sure wouldn't know. I get rid of such as soon as possible |
| 18:45.27 | lenswipe | n4dir, get rid of what? |
| 18:45.29 | lenswipe | gdm? |
| 18:45.32 | lenswipe | apt purge gdm? |
| 18:45.36 | n4dir | display managers |
| 18:45.39 | greycat | the package is gdm3 |
| 18:45.42 | lenswipe | k |
| 18:45.49 | greycat | that's why I was surprised that "systemctl start gdm" did anything |
| 18:45.57 | lenswipe | its probably an alias |
| 18:46.00 | lenswipe | so i just purged gdm3 |
| 18:46.06 | n4dir | you can just disable it. no need to remove it, as that might well lead into metapackage problems |
| 18:46.59 | lenswipe | so ive removed it |
| 18:47.04 | lenswipe | should i re-install gdm3?# |
| 18:47.29 | greycat | if removing it didn't cause you any grief, then no |
| 18:47.32 | n4dir | not so fast. If you don't run in problems and you don't need it ... your choice |
| 18:47.54 | lenswipe | i do need it |
| 18:48.08 | lenswipe | i need some kind of GUI for a meeting I have in....about an hour |
| 18:48.16 | greycat | but you said startx worked |
| 18:48.30 | lenswipe | startx did work |
| 18:48.37 | lenswipe | X != GDM |
| 18:48.46 | greycat | then you do not need to reinstall gdm3 |
| 18:49.16 | lenswipe | x is not a full desktop |
| 18:49.21 | lenswipe | ooh |
| 18:49.24 | lenswipe | i just re-installed gdm3 |
| 18:49.32 | greycat | gdm3 is just the LOGIN SCREEN |
| 18:49.34 | lenswipe | gdm.service is not active, cannot reload |
| 18:49.37 | greycat | it is not part of your GNOME session |
| 18:49.40 | lenswipe | oh. |
| 18:49.46 | lenswipe | so how do i get a gnome-desktop up and running |
| 18:50.10 | greycat | If you are trying to say "startx xterm worked, but startx with no arguments did not work", then you failed to convey that. |
| 18:50.16 | jmcnaught | I think you need to use GDM if you want screen locking to work correctly in GNOME. Also GDM uses Wayland on buster, not X. |
| 18:50.21 | lenswipe | startx showed me a terminal |
| 18:50.41 | greycat | You have one freaking hour. Are you sure you need to spend it wrestling with bloody GNOME? Can you just use a regular window manager for now? |
| 18:50.45 | lenswipe | greycat, startx xterm worked, startx with no arguments also worked |
| 18:50.53 | lenswipe | greycat, i cant use any fucking window manager |
| 18:50.59 | lenswipe | (sorry, just frustrated) |
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| 18:51.04 | greycat | If it worked, then spend the rest of the hour preparing for your meeting. |
| 18:51.07 | n4dir | for troubleshooting a window-manager is the better choice |
| 18:51.12 | n4dir | i agree with the master. |
| 18:51.19 | lenswipe | greycat, im already prepared - i just need a working computer to run zoom |
| 18:51.26 | lenswipe | can we focus on that rather than arguing about my meeting? |
| 18:51.42 | greycat | install a window manager that isn't part of GNOME, and install whatever browser you use for zoom |
| 18:51.51 | lenswipe | humor me |
| 18:52.01 | lenswipe | how do i get gnome to start and/or get some kind of output about why it wont? |
| 18:52.10 | greycat | whatever window manager you used before gnome existed, would be ideal, since you already know it |
| 18:52.13 | lenswipe | humor me |
| 18:52.14 | lenswipe | how do i get gnome to start and/or get some kind of output about why it wont? |
| 18:52.21 | lenswipe | i didn't. |
| 18:52.25 | lenswipe | gnome is all ive ever used |
| 18:52.29 | greycat | I have no idea how to make GNOME work and I do not care. |
| 18:52.34 | lenswipe | ffs |
| 18:52.34 | n4dir | yikes ... |
| 18:52.37 | greycat | If GNOME were to die in a fire, I would get out the marshmallows. |
| 18:52.59 | lenswipe | greycat, "I don't like this thing, so i wont even help you - go use something i like" |
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| 18:53.01 | lenswipe | very helpful thank you |
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| 18:53.05 | lenswipe | *sigh* |
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| 18:53.18 | jmcnaught | lenswipe: can you show a paste of "journalctl -u gdm" ? |
| 18:53.26 | lenswipe | jmcnaught, sure, one sec |
| 18:54.24 | lenswipe | jmcnaught, "gdm.service: Unit cannot be reloaded because it is inactive" |
| 18:57.04 | jmcnaught | lenswipe: that's it? Did this happen after you cancelled tasksel while it was installing GNOME? |
| 18:57.12 | lenswipe | jmcnaught, yes |
| 18:57.19 | lenswipe | i cancelled tasksel because it hung on 88% |
| 18:57.42 | lenswipe | jmcnaught, i just started the service and gdm is apparently running |
| 18:58.07 | greycat | ... and you didn't think, "Hey, maybe I should finish installing GNOME before trying to run it"? |
| 18:58.37 | lenswipe | greycat, before trying to run what? |
| 18:58.41 | lenswipe | tasksel? |
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| 18:59.38 | jmcnaught | lenswipe: does "journalctl -u gdm" show anything new that that you've started it? |
| 19:00.02 | lenswipe | oof yes |
| 19:00.04 | lenswipe | one sec |
| 19:00.19 | lenswipe | https://gist.github.com/rmainseas/76be20ed8d3b7e33cc82e0a406c74ccc |
| 19:00.52 | sney | has anyone suggested "apt -f install" yet? |
| 19:01.06 | greycat | You have! :) |
| 19:01.31 | greycat | I only just now learned that he was trying to run gdm while GNOME was only partially installed. |
| 19:02.01 | lenswipe | greycat, i re-installed gnome several times |
| 19:02.09 | sney | yeah, because you got derailed by your gnome beef. it's been pretty clear that there was an installation problem this whole time and I'm only like 10% paying attention |
| 19:02.10 | greycat | 14:57 lenswipe> i cancelled tasksel because it hung on 88% |
| 19:02.39 | lenswipe | sney, Right. Question is figuring out what that is |
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| 19:02.54 | lenswipe | greycat, at no point does that imply that I didn't re-install gnome after that |
| 19:03.07 | greycat | *plonk* I'm done. |
| 19:03.07 | sney | lenswipe: what happens when you run "apt -f install"? |
| 19:03.26 | lenswipe | gnome is already the newest version |
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| 19:03.41 | greycat | sney: maybe you're better at mind-reading than I am today. Good luck. |
| 19:03.45 | lenswipe | *sigh* |
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| 19:04.01 | n4dir | again: for troubleshooting the best bet is to use a window-manager. |
| 19:04.07 | jmcnaught | lenswipe: the command was "apt -f install" not "apt -f install gnome" |
| 19:04.14 | lenswipe | oh |
| 19:04.20 | n4dir | also a different user (in other cases). etc. Troubleshooting is a standard routine |
| 19:04.24 | lenswipe | that just says 0 upgraded yada yada |
| 19:04.28 | lenswipe | n4dir, right now im root |
| 19:05.51 | lenswipe | n4dir, tried another user - same thing |
| 19:05.52 | n4dir | but as long you got a display-manager running you can't startx as root, and i think today you can't do it at all anymore |
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| 19:06.13 | sney | maybe try "apt install task-gnome-desktop". depending on where tasksel was in the process when your screen said 88%, that may pick up the pieces. |
| 19:06.22 | greycat | I've done startx as root on current Debian, for testing purposes, but not while a DM was running. |
| 19:06.39 | lenswipe | so i just rebooted |
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| 19:06.49 | lenswipe | i got a quick flash on tty1 then a black screen |
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| 19:06.51 | n4dir | what i'd do then is install a window-manager, edit ~/.xinitrc (say exec startfluxbox), and if then startx fails too, some possible reasons (say gnome is the culprit) are excluded |
| 19:07.04 | lenswipe | okay, so i install fluxbox? |
| 19:07.12 | n4dir | but you are in good hands, i just made some sidenotes. |
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| 19:07.38 | lenswipe | btw - i dont have an xinitrc |
| 19:07.39 | n4dir | greycat: thanks for the info, i recall it like that, but the other day i ran into "something" (seems i remembered wrong) |
| 19:07.46 | jmcnaught | lenswipe: you could try uncommenting #WaylandEnable=false in /etc/gdm3/daemon.conf and restarting gdm. |
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| 19:07.58 | jmcnaught | since startx worked |
| 19:08.50 | lenswipe | jmcnaught, okay, so i did that |
| 19:08.55 | lenswipe | now my screen is just flickering |
| 19:08.59 | lenswipe | then it dropped me back to a prompt |
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| 19:09.23 | n4dir | greycat: probably was that problem with running gparted as root which now seems to fail. you were here, but probably don't remember (you offered me some of the business for running gui-admin tools ...) |
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| 19:09.47 | jmcnaught | lenswipe: check the journal again for new messages |
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| 19:10.12 | lenswipe | jmcnaught, i did just get a CPU FIFO pipe error |
| 19:10.27 | nulleip | lenswipe: you are trying to run gdm from inside a chrooted environment? I missed the start of it all |
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| 19:10.33 | lenswipe | nulleip, nope, |
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| 19:11.30 | lenswipe | i did just try installing lightdm to see if that might get things working |
| 19:11.31 | lenswipe | it didnt |
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| 19:12.03 | nulleip | lenswipe: what /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager link points to? |
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| 19:13.22 | lenswipe | nulleip, x-session-manager -> /usr/bin/gnome-session |
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| 19:13.53 | nulleip | lenswipe: and /etc/systemd/system/display-manager.service |
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| 19:16.00 | nulleip | lenswipe: maybe do a `apt-get --reinstall install gdm3` and check if that links to a valid dm service |
| 19:16.14 | lenswipe | nulleip, /etc/systemd/system/display-manager.servi ce -> /lib/systemd/system/gdm3.service |
| 19:16.17 | lenswipe | ive already done that |
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| 19:16.38 | nulleip | lenswipe: ok |
| 19:16.58 | nulleip | lenswipe: its strange since startx works |
| 19:17.12 | lenswipe | ah |
| 19:17.15 | lenswipe | startx doesnt work anymore |
| 19:17.16 | lenswipe | it did work |
| 19:17.20 | lenswipe | i just get command not found now |
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| 19:19.08 | n4dir | for startx? |
| 19:19.19 | lenswipe | okay startx works now |
| 19:19.20 | lenswipe | sort of |
| 19:19.28 | lenswipe | it kicks me back out to the terminal now |
| 19:19.37 | lenswipe | failed to set IOPL for I/O (Operation not permitted) |
| 19:19.55 | lenswipe | sudo startx also kicks me back to the terminal but with no error |
| 19:20.11 | lenswipe | "Waiting for x server to shutdown (II) Server terminated succesfsully (0>) |
| 19:20.31 | nulleip | lenswipe: I think gnome is broken, purge it, remove automatic dependencies and reinstall |
| 19:20.32 | jmcnaught | lenswipe: does "dpkg -l | grep -v ^ii" list any packages with flags like 'iF' or 'iU'? |
| 19:20.42 | lenswipe | one sec |
| 19:20.44 | lenswipe | im just rebooting |
| 19:20.54 | lenswipe | nulleip, gnome? or task-gnome? or gdm3? |
| 19:21.03 | nulleip | lenswipe: all of it |
| 19:21.27 | greycat | 14:48 lenswipe> i need some kind of GUI for a meeting I have in....about an hour |
| 19:21.30 | nulleip | lenswipe: I think it will be best since things got mingled up |
| 19:21.33 | greycat | Half an hour left. |
| 19:21.45 | lenswipe | nulleip, probably, ill give it a shot |
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| 19:23.25 | lenswipe | jmcnaught, nope |
| 19:23.33 | lenswipe | nulleip, should i reinstall all 3 of those? |
| 19:23.37 | n4dir | how long does it take installing a 5 MB big window manager ? ... |
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| 19:24.58 | nulleip | lenswipe: my bet is yes |
| 19:25.01 | lenswipe | nulleip, done that. |
| 19:25.03 | lenswipe | still nothing |
| 19:25.33 | nulleip | lenswipe: you can always install another wm |
| 19:25.39 | lenswipe | nulleip, i tried installing ice-wm |
| 19:25.41 | nulleip | lenswipe: and test it too |
| 19:25.47 | jmcnaught | lenswipe: are you using NVIDIA proprietary drivers? |
| 19:25.47 | lenswipe | how do i use start it? |
| 19:25.50 | lenswipe | jmcnaught, nope |
| 19:26.22 | nulleip | lenswipe: try xfce4 or something lighter and reliable |
| 19:26.30 | lenswipe | fine |
| 19:26.36 | lenswipe | apt install xfce? |
| 19:26.56 | nulleip | xfce4 I think |
| 19:27.18 | lenswipe | its asking me what default display manager it should use |
| 19:27.20 | lenswipe | gdm3 or lightdm |
| 19:27.23 | lenswipe | im guessing lightdm |
| 19:27.49 | nulleip | first install that other wm, then see if it starts with gdm3 |
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| 19:27.57 | n4dir | if you install a wm you need to somehow tell startx which to use. Hence edit ~/.xinitrc (that is: create it) and enter exec icewm-session (or whatever is valid for icewm, ls /usr/bin/*icewm* |
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| 19:28.40 | lenswipe | yep i cant |
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| 19:28.47 | lenswipe | wait nvm |
| 19:28.50 | Pinchiukas | Is unattended-upgrades supposed to be invoked through cron? |
| 19:29.34 | lenswipe | n4dir, yeah cant find icewm |
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| 19:30.17 | greycat | I believe it uses systemd timers. |
| 19:30.30 | nulleip | lenswipe: it is shown on /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ ? |
| 19:30.58 | lenswipe | nulleip, nope. |
| 19:31.34 | nulleip | lenswipe: I mean xfce? run startxfce4, it work? |
| 19:31.56 | greycat | Pinchiukas: yeah, two systemd timers: "apt-daily.timer" and "apt-daily-upgrade.timer" |
| 19:32.01 | lenswipe | server terminated with error |
| 19:32.17 | lenswipe | unable to connect to x server: connection refused |
| 19:33.16 | Pinchiukas | Hmm... How come do I already have a /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades ? :/ |
| 19:33.49 | greycat | well, that's part of apt, not part of cron |
| 19:34.29 | greycat | /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades just has two lines that tell whether the service should be on or off |
| 19:34.40 | greycat | it's up to the systemd timer (or cron) to actually *try* to run the service |
| 19:35.52 | Pinchiukas | I can't find this file with 'dpkg -S' for some reason. Do the install scripts create it? |
| 19:36.38 | greycat | you just said you have it |
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| 19:37.35 | nulleip | lenswipe: `update-alternatives --list x-session-manager` shows what? |
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| 19:38.42 | lenswipe | right now nothing because im considering doing a re-install |
| 19:39.00 | Pinchiukas | greycat: I'm asking why. |
| 19:40.02 | nulleip | lenswipe: `update-alternatives --set x-session-manager startxfce4; systemctl enable lightdm; systemctl disable gdm3` and restart |
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| 19:41.08 | nulleip | lenswipe: unless something is really broken, yes, then only purging things and reinstalling... |
| 19:41.30 | greycat | root@megview4:~# dpkg -S 20auto |
| 19:41.30 | greycat | unattended-upgrades: /usr/share/unattended-upgrades/20auto-upgrades-disabled |
| 19:41.30 | greycat | unattended-upgrades: /usr/share/unattended-upgrades/20auto-upgrades |
| 19:41.30 | Pinchiukas | Looks like unattended-upgrades postinst script creates that file. |
| 19:41.47 | greycat | OK, good, I can log back out. You found it. |
| 19:41.56 | Pinchiukas | greycat: I was looking for the one in /etc. |
| 19:42.14 | lenswipe | nulleip, okay, trying that |
| 19:43.11 | realtime-neil | Why can't I substvar my *.changes file like this: https://paste.debian.net/1160415/ |
| 19:43.16 | lenswipe | nulleip, yep. still nothing |
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| 19:44.36 | sney | realtime-neil: #packaging or #debian-mentors on OFTC is probably a better place to ask, and include what happens when you try |
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| 19:46.14 | nulleip | lenswipe: the weirdest thing is that startx was working, so display driver and etc was fine, assuming you didnt change nothing on xorg part, then, weird |
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| 19:47.01 | greycat | GNOME and gdm3 will try to use super advanced crap, video acceleration, 3d rendering, god knows what. |
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| 19:47.14 | greycat | You might be able to get a regular X session with a regular WM to work but not get GNOME to work. |
| 19:47.24 | greycat | When there is a TIME CRUNCH, why fuck around with the complicated thing? |
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| 19:53.30 | lenswipe | nulleip, yeah - question question |
| 19:53.37 | lenswipe | im in the live environment installer right now |
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| 19:53.56 | lenswipe | if i remove partitions from there - will it actually delete the partitions? or just ignore them? |
| 19:54.11 | lenswipe | i want to write a new system to my root logical volume without touching the other stuff |
| 19:55.33 | fnordbar | Hello. I have a question. Is there a command I can use to check if the permissions of a file is not the one when it was installed? I tried dpkg -V and debsums but this does not show e.g. when the SUID bit was added to a binary. I'm also interested on how to check if new capabilities have been added to a binary. |
| 19:55.56 | greycat | No, Debian does not store file owners/permissions in any kind of separate location. |
| 19:56.34 | mason | fnordbar: You can set up audit rules to track that sort of thing. |
| 19:56.34 | ohnx | .bribe |
| 19:56.39 | ohnx | oops sorry |
| 19:57.08 | fnordbar | Hmm. And how does the package knows how to install a SUID binary? I guess this is then already configured within the package archive as-is. |
| 19:57.18 | mason | fnordbar: yes |
| 19:58.14 | fnordbar | manson greycat OK thanks. That already answers my question. Setting up auditd is already too late if I want to check a already running system and how it was changed. But THX for the help! |
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| 20:00.18 | lenswipe | Well, just tried a re-install and it crashed and burned halfway through |
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| 20:03.22 | fnordbar | manson greycat And I should read the manpage more carefully. dpkg -V says that the only check implemented so far is the md5sum check ;-) |
| 20:03.51 | greycat | !md5sums |
| 20:03.51 | dpkg | Most packages contain the md5sums of all files within the package, and they are stored in /var/lib/dpkg/info/package.md5sums. Use <debsums> to check these hashes for installed packages to find accidentally damaged or delete files. The md5sums are *not* used for preventing malicious file changes; the Packages file contains SHA1 and SHA256 sums for this purpose (ask me about <secure apt>). |
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| 20:12.54 | [E]sc | i'm using dnscrypt-proxy. when i do the browserleaks.com/dns test, it shows multiple servers, ips and locations. does this mean the dnscrypt-proxy is working or not? |
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| 20:17.36 | sney | probably, are any of the results your actual isp and wan ip? |
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| 20:21.52 | Hrym | Hi! I recently upgraded my Buster install to linux 4.19.0-10, and I am suddenly experiencing panics that I think is related to the network. When the computer crashes, it seems to flood my switch with pause messages. Any clues to how to investigate further? I booted 4.19.0-9 in the meantime, and I haven't had a panic - yet. |
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| 20:24.10 | Hrym | If it's the network driver, the hw is an Intel 82579LM. Have been stable until now. |
| 20:25.59 | sney | that's what, igb? those are pretty solid. |
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| 20:26.36 | sney | there's a procedure for investigating kernel regressions, it's a little time consuming but since the failure was introduced between -9 and -10 it shouldn't be *too* bad. |
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| 20:26.55 | sney | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernel/GitBisect |
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| 20:33.33 | Hrym | Thanks for the link, I'll look into that. It's an intel gigabit card on a old Dell workstation. Probably run the prev. kernel a while so to rule out any recent hw failures... |
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| 21:00.44 | [E]sc | sney: it doesn't look like it. although it still found my isp and ip address, just not under the DNS server results. |
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| 21:03.12 | ws2k3 | iptables -A RH-Firewall-1-INPUT -m state â-state NEW -m tcp -p tcp âdport 5666 -j ACCEPT any idea what could be wrong with this line? im getting: Bad argument `â-state' but im not sure why |
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| 21:03.20 | greycat | Does this project involve you editing your resolv.conf file? If so, you might need to take steps to make your changes not get trampled. |
| 21:03.23 | greycat | !override dns |
| 21:03.23 | dpkg | To have dhclient etc not touch /etc/resolv.conf, the best plan is to configure it not to touch that file. See https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf for more details. Note that by ignoring the DHCP-provided DNS servers, you may find that you are unable to use captive portals or surf the web on some network. Beware creating technical debt by doing things like chattr +i |
| 21:04.44 | sponix | ws2k3: your "dashes" in front of it don't look correct when compared with say --dport |
| 21:04.57 | sponix | ws2k3: might double check whatever you are copy/pasting from |
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| 21:33.18 | dD_ | Hi, I have a virtual server with debian and after an upgrade it stopped booting. I'm in with a recovery iso, but I'm really unclear as to what I should do. How do I see why it's not booting? |
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| 21:36.48 | jhutchins | ws2k3: Also, the man page should show you what gets single and what gets double dashes. |
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| 21:37.41 | jhutchins | ws2k3: Typically single dashes are used for abbreviated, usually single-letter arguments, while double dashes are for more spelled out arguments. |
| 21:39.41 | Raito_Bezarius | i'm using ifupdown and I don't understand why but bridges are not created automatically anymore |
| 21:39.46 | Raito_Bezarius | i have to brctl addbr myself them |
| 21:39.53 | Raito_Bezarius | which is causing issue at (re)boot |
| 21:39.59 | Raito_Bezarius | any idea why? |
| 21:41.27 | jhutchins | ws2k3: Actually, I'm seeing examples where it's clearly double dash. |
| 21:42.12 | jhutchins | Raito_Bezarius: Not enough info on what you're doing. Bridges are not part of a standard network setup. |
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| 21:46.45 | Raito_Bezarius | jhutchins: I'm just doing "auto bridgeX\n iface bridgeX inet(6) static [â¦]" |
| 21:46.50 | Raito_Bezarius | in my /etc/network/interfaces |
| 21:47.03 | Raito_Bezarius | This is part of an hypervisor setup, consisting of multiple zones (DMZ, private, WAN) |
| 21:47.12 | Raito_Bezarius | Bridged with VMs & physical ports |
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| 21:48.38 | jhutchins | KVM? |
| 21:48.53 | Raito_Bezarius | Indeed |
| 21:48.58 | Raito_Bezarius | The KVM part looks fine |
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| 21:49.03 | Raito_Bezarius | I'm using Proxmox to be exact |
| 21:49.11 | jhutchins | !proxmox |
| 21:49.11 | dpkg | Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial ##proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Get_support |
| 21:49.20 | Raito_Bezarius | Thanks for this jhutchins |
| 21:49.29 | Raito_Bezarius | I'm not sure it's especially Proxmox-specific |
| 21:49.33 | Raito_Bezarius | But I'll ask there |
| 21:50.06 | jhutchins | Yeah, they'll know what the common setup is. Sorry I don't, I'm familiar with virtualbox on windows. |
| 21:50.16 | Raito_Bezarius | No problem :) |
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| 21:56.25 | abff | proxmox is neat |
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| 22:10.06 | mirrorbird | what e-mail clients do you guys use? |
| 22:10.38 | sponix | I haven't used an email client since Gmail became a thing |
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| 22:11.03 | mason | mirrorbird: mutt |
| 22:13.14 | jhutchins | mirrorbird: I use roundcube because I used to need access from outside my firewall. |
| 22:14.06 | jhutchins | mirrorbird: I've managed a live public mailserver, and it's not something I want to deal with, so miniman configuration, no access to mail ports, and it's got a decent interface. |
| 22:14.27 | jhutchins | mirrorbird: KDE 3.5 had a decent mail client, but they killed everything in 4. |
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| 22:16.50 | mirrorbird | yes mutt is supposedly good/"powerful", whatever that means in a mail client. well i used it once to send a patch. |
| 22:17.13 | mirrorbird | i just want a fast program where i can read mailing lists and also all my own emails |
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| 22:17.39 | mirrorbird | having a relatively sluggish laptop with a small screen, i don't want 5+ gmail tabs open at all times |
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| 22:17.50 | mirrorbird | gmail is so slow :S i mean, the client website. |
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| 22:23.08 | mirrorbird | right now i have claws but there are like 100 000 emails backed up from high volume mailing lists so i'm afraid to open it. not sure what to do about that |
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| 22:26.24 | aaro | ,php |
| 22:26.41 | aaro | ,php7 |
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| 22:33.49 | aaro | , php |
| 22:34.11 | aaro | ,v php |
| 22:34.12 | judd | Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 2:7.3+69; bullseye: 2:7.4+76; sid: 2:7.4+76 |
| 22:34.46 | mirrorbird | ,v network-manager-applet |
| 22:34.47 | judd | No package named 'network-manager-applet' was found in amd64. |
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| 22:36.35 | oerheks | ,v nm-applet |
| 22:36.35 | jmcnaught | mirrorbird: nm-applet is in the package network-manager-gnome |
| 22:36.36 | judd | No package named 'nm-applet' was found in amd64. |
| 22:36.56 | oerheks | good spot jmcnaught |
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| 22:37.40 | mirrorbird | and yet... apt install network-manager-TAB gives me network-manager-applet |
| 22:38.13 | mirrorbird | soon the debian pope will drag me into a dungeon cell and force me to publically reject my beliefs |
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| 22:39.57 | abrotman | Didn't we cover this the other day? |
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| 22:42.10 | mirrorbird | the usual "pff your system is broken it's your fault pff" |
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| 22:43.34 | abrotman | I didn't say that |
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| 22:49.33 | mason | mirrorbird: I've got 54,000 emails in one folder here, 36,000 in another. Mutt is unproblematic with them. I suspect it'd handle 100K just as well. |
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| 22:50.15 | mirrorbird | hmm |
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| 22:50.23 | mirrorbird | mason, what about browsing emails, is it slow? |
| 22:50.31 | mirrorbird | when i open claws it starts the download churn |
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| 22:50.37 | mason | mirrorbird: Browsing meaning reading or ...? |
| 22:50.37 | mirrorbird | maybe i will finally be a mutt-user |
| 22:50.48 | mirrorbird | like, scrolling the endless list of email subjects? |
| 22:51.01 | mason | mirrorbird: It's pretty fast at sorting through things, limiting to various patterns, etc. |
| 22:51.16 | mason | Yeah, it's fine there. Good threading support, good search functions. |
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| 22:52.18 | mason | mirrorbird: One thing I do that at least the version of Mutt I have installed doesn't do by default is add SENDER to the imap headers I keep locally, which makes searching out specific mailing lists pretty trivial, even if they're all in the same bucket. |
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| 23:48.23 | dD_ | Whenever I visit mydomain.com I get a proxy error, but whenever I visit it through www.mydomain.com it redirects to my domain and won't give me any problems. What could the problem be? |
| 23:49.02 | dD_ | (sorry, this is in a debian problem with apache, but would you say I should post this in apache?) |
| 23:49.12 | sney | yeah, some kind of apache vhost issue |
| 23:49.44 | dD_ | thanks |
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| 23:49.57 | sney | and/or perhaps dns? hard to know without seeing configs and specific errors |
| 23:52.13 | dD_ | sney: so it's weird because the error started coming up without having changed anything |
| 23:52.43 | dD_ | sney: tumu.mx |
| 23:52.46 | dD_ | sney: and www.tumu.mx |
| 23:52.57 | sney | you have to remember that the web uses a lot of caches |
| 23:53.07 | sney | so when you make a change it takes a while to be apparent |
| 23:54.22 | dD_ | sney: yeah, i actually just changed my server and took it back while trying to fix it, and i'm pretty sure that i'm seeing the "correct" page |
| 23:54.45 | sney | Reason: DNS lookup failure for: tumumx.com |
| 23:54.49 | sney | sounds like there's a typo. |
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| 23:56.10 | dD_ | sney: where would that typo be? |
| 23:56.32 | Mrbuck | why every major software will have lower version when it comes to debian? |
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| 23:56.47 | mirrorbird | Mrbuck, because it takes time to package it for debian |
| 23:56.50 | sney | !tell Mrbuck about stable |
| 23:56.54 | mirrorbird | and, if you are using stable, it w-- ok |
| 23:57.20 | sney | dD_: probably in your dns records, but maybe in your vhost definition for tumu.mx. there's a redirect to a record that it can't find. |
| 23:57.20 | Mrbuck | mirrorbird: ok |
| 23:57.32 | Mrbuck | and not all software are just stable butt are outdated |
| 23:58.11 | sney | Mrbuck: if you want to use a distro that always has cutting edge versions of everything, there are lots of those. |
| 23:58.18 | sney | debian has different goals. |
| 23:58.32 | sney | if you actually want to know the reasons, you can read debian policy. |
| 23:58.36 | Mrbuck | sney: what goals? |
| 23:58.50 | sney | at the risk of repeating myself, stability |
| 23:59.04 | sney | and before you claim that new versions are stable, sure, maybe they are for you |
| 23:59.26 | sney | but debian is used in a huge broad range of different use cases and thus needs to be more careful. |
| 23:59.32 | sney | !policy |
| 23:59.33 | dpkg | policy is the document that defines how Debian packages should (and must!) interact with each other and with the user to make sure we have a high-quality, stable distribution. You can find it at http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ or in the debian-policy package. Those who fail to understand Debian Policy are doomed to reimplement it, poorly. See also <best practices> <nmg> <mentors>. |
| 23:59.54 | Mrbuck | hmmm |
| 23:59.57 | Mrbuck | ok |