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| 01:14.46 | rgr | why would global-auto-revert-mode not be working in .md files? global-auto-revert-ignore-modes is nil. |
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| 02:00.01 | NixZiZ | mason: So I tried to remove it using rmmod and the like. #find / -name 'cdc_acm' doesn't find anything named as such once I unload it. however, sure enough, plug the device back in, and it appears. Checking for "debian exar" brings up an old thread indicating it might be compiled in the kernel: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=804350 |
| 02:00.02 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/804350 in wnpp (open): «RFP: vizzini -- Kernel driver for Exar XR21V1414 USB UART»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2015-11-07; last modified: 2019-06-06. |
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| 02:01.13 | mason | NixZiZ: dask, not underscore: /lib/modules/4.19.0-10-amd64/kernel/drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.ko |
| 02:01.29 | mason | NixZiZ: dash, not dask |
| 02:01.30 | NixZiZ | whoops... thanks for the catch |
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| 02:10.13 | rgr | #+EXCLUDE_TAGS: i org-mode doesn't seem to be working. |
| 02:10.29 | rgr | ignore |
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| 02:17.34 | NixZiZ | mason: Thanks a lot, I have it working now! |
| 02:20.03 | mason | NixZiZ: Awesome. Don't forget to read up on dpkg-divert so that kernel updates don't put it back in place, or at the least take notes so you can re-do this next time. |
| 02:20.25 | mason | NixZiZ: There might also be some slicker blacklist-based way to do it, but I'll leave that for smarter folk to explain, if it exists. |
| 02:21.09 | NixZiZ | honestly this machine is just a shim until I have my Yocto toolchain up :) |
| 02:21.54 | mason | Interesting. New to me. |
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| 02:22.02 | NixZiZ | Thanks for the advice though |
| 02:22.27 | NixZiZ | I definitely have copied the location to a notebook |
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| 02:48.04 | cth | is there a reason one may want to have multiple partitions within one physical disk? |
| 02:48.34 | cth | Windows kinda makes it a part of root navigation, but Linux doesn't have that habit. |
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| 02:49.43 | deltanedas | on debian sid, why is android-sdk-platform-23 the latest available platform? |
| 02:49.45 | dvs | cth, yeah, if you fill and disk it makes the recovery easier |
| 02:49.47 | ryouma | i think it is normally expected to have at least one partition per disk |
| 02:50.01 | ryouma | this is not a requirement but some tools kind of seem to expect it |
| 02:50.28 | ryouma | were you thinking of putting boot root home all on one partition? you can if you want. |
| 02:50.44 | ryouma | but it can make it more annoying |
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| 03:01.53 | cth | this is ridiculous. So I decided to install mint with cinnamon. |
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| 03:03.53 | dvs | ??? |
| 03:04.06 | cth | Inserted flashdrive with it, it loaded me into a live OS. I started installation. And then while it was running, I decided to fool around, not expecting this live CD to be anything special. Opened browser, went to youtube and started watching a movie. With sound. Then I was like: "hmmm". Attached my TV via HDMI, it started working right away, opening as extended desktop in 4k! I switched the audio to it and it worked! I was watching movie on my TV from my |
| 03:04.06 | cth | laptop while it was installing an OS |
| 03:04.31 | cth | ridiculous. |
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| 03:05.51 | cth | and this is for free? Without having to sacrifice my data and dignity to a corporate overlord? |
| 03:05.58 | deltanedas | you can do almost anything on a live usb |
| 03:06.02 | deltanedas | or cd |
| 03:06.02 | cth | Honestly, windows just capitalizes on people's ignorance |
| 03:08.15 | ryouma | or unwillingness to have to re-learn stuff maybe |
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| 03:19.47 | cth | well, Windows makes mistakes. Lately, especially. Users can do less and less there. No ability to disable the antivirus, no ability to stop tracking, to stop Windows from installing its garbage software when nobody asked, etc. |
| 03:20.44 | cth | My wife switched one of her laptops to linux, then I switched one of mine. Now I'm switching the other one. If Linux continues performing as it has been, I believe we'll end up moving all we have to it. |
| 03:21.44 | ryouma | welcome to debian |
| 03:22.35 | deltanedas | apt install fish; chsh |
| 03:22.47 | deltanedas | friendly colorful shell |
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| 03:52.35 | beelzebuzz | zsh |
| 03:52.48 | beelzebuzz | a real shell :D |
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| 04:12.59 | EdePopede | re-learn, that's why it is a bad idea to confront school kids with windows and ms-office in the first place |
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| 04:25.34 | LuxInterior | fish? |
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| 04:28.17 | mason | https://fishshell.com/ |
| 04:29.15 | mason | Now, if you want a REAL shell: https://scsh.net/ |
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| 04:42.29 | deltanedas | the realest shell: gcc -xc - && ./a.out |
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| 05:51.02 | efloid | grrr android only give info for emulator packages for ubuntu. no libvirt-bin ubuntu-vm-builder ia32-libs-multiarch |
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| 05:55.36 | oerheks | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:55.37 | oerheks | https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/HOWTO#Installing_Android_SDK_compat_libraries |
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| 05:58.54 | efloid | ok just following the debian wiki kvm page. hopefully that will satisfy android-studio |
| 05:59.16 | efloid | oerheks: oh thank you! |
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| 06:01.54 | efloid | great. would be nice to create a factoid recommending to install android-studio via snap and use info from that site and also https://wiki.debian.org/KVM#Installation |
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| 06:49.17 | SerajewelKS | is there a way from within linux to tell the system to pretend a SATA disk disappeared? i want to test various storage redundancy failure scenarios including "drive suddenly goes missing." |
| 06:49.54 | SerajewelKS | i may be able to rig something up with qemu to rip a drive out of a running VM but figured if there's something i can do in /proc or /sys, that would be easier |
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| 06:56.05 | jelly | SerajewelKS, yes, you can remove the device with echo 1 > /sys/block/sdX/device/delete, but a SATA disk usually starts misbehaving in ways other than just disappearing from bus |
| 06:56.30 | SerajewelKS | jelly: yep this is just one scenario. thanks, i'll give that a shot. |
| 06:56.32 | Haohmaru | <spooky.jpg> |
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| 07:23.24 | mawst | HAIL! |
| 07:24.24 | Haohmaru | eyeballz mawst |
| 07:24.35 | mawst | :D |
| 07:25.12 | mawst | Like what ya see buddy? |
| 07:25.30 | Haohmaru | do you have any questions? |
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| 07:41.36 | Arrow900 | How do I fix GNOME not showing EOG(Image Viewer) on Default Applications for Photos |
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| 07:47.42 | Arrow900 | nvm changed mimeapps.list and now it shows up |
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| 08:53.45 | jelly | !qotd0 |
| 08:53.45 | dpkg | <scarynetworkguy> yea any book that has the phrase 'Pig-fisting' in it is gonna be good |
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| 08:55.19 | Haohmaru | o_O |
| 08:55.49 | Haohmaru | <ineedaparent.jpg> |
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| 11:38.21 | rdz | hey all. is there way to get a list of initially installed packages, a.k.a packages installed from netinst medium? |
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| 11:39.37 | themill | "initially installed" depends on what you selected at install time and what hardware was detected so it's not that easy |
| 11:40.28 | rdz | themill, i was expecting that set would be different on different installations.. but maybe there is a report somehwere? |
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| 11:42.48 | themill | I normally take a list of dpkg --get-selections at the end of the process; the installer does keep a log but I'm not sure if it keeps a package log like that |
| 11:43.20 | rdz | themill, ok.. thanks |
| 11:43.41 | rdz | getting a list ot the end of base installation probably makes sense |
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| 11:46.48 | themill | !standard task |
| 11:46.48 | dpkg | methinks standard task is a "task" that should be installed on all machines during the installer stage. It installs packages that are important, required and standard (i.e. "aptitude install ~pstandard ~prequired ~pimportant"). Packages in the <essential> set are always installed. Also ask me about <tasksel>. |
| 11:46.53 | themill | ^^ that covers most of it |
| 11:48.31 | rdz | themill, cool. that's already very helpful |
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| 12:04.23 | Kobaz | having a weird problem with trying to set default mime types: https://dpaste.com/993QQYVQW |
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| 12:25.51 | PETURBG | amavisd-snmp-subagent[1333]: Can't locate NetSNMP/OID.pm |
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| 12:27.04 | PETURBG | latest my frie debian. |
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| 12:44.20 | jelly | judd, file NetSNMP/OID.pm |
| 12:44.26 | judd | Search for NetSNMP/OID.pm in buster/amd64: libsnmp-perl: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl5/5.28/NetSNMP/OID.pm |
| 12:44.37 | jelly | PETURBG, is that package installed |
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| 12:45.03 | PETURBG | i install libnet-snmp-perl |
| 12:45.06 | PETURBG | and reboot again |
| 12:45.17 | jelly | PETURBG, read carefully |
| 12:45.21 | jelly | libsnmp-perl |
| 12:45.34 | jelly | different from libnet-snmp-perl if that exists at all |
| 12:45.57 | PETURBG | so it need to install libsnmp-perl |
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| 12:46.32 | PETURBG | and is it neccesary libnet-snmp-perl |
| 12:48.51 | jelly | I have no idea where libnet-snmp-perl comes from, sorry |
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| 12:51.28 | PETURBG | Process [1514] started: /usr/sbin/amavis-services snmp-responder |
| 12:51.41 | PETURBG | Process [1514] exited (/usr/sbin/amavis-services snmp-responder) after 0.0 s: exit 2 |
| 12:51.51 | PETURBG | how to see it is working |
| 12:52.54 | jelly | are you using Debian or Ubuntu, PETURBG? |
| 12:53.02 | PETURBG | ? |
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| 12:53.24 | jelly | I just noticed you're asking about this in both #ubuntu and #debian channels |
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| 12:53.59 | PETURBG | i only use debian |
| 12:54.37 | jelly | only ask in the right channel for your distro -- different distros can have differences in behaviour, and differences in what the optimal solution would be |
| 12:55.06 | jelly | and I see the "libnet-snmp-perl" suggestion came from someone in #ubuntu |
| 12:55.59 | PETURBG | jelly unknown what you comment. |
| 12:56.16 | PETURBG | jelly i follow this?: https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/msg1697657.html |
| 12:56.28 | jelly | [14:32:51] <PETURBG> nbusrone /usr/sbin/amavisd-snmp-subagent |
| 12:56.28 | jelly | [14:32:56] <PETURBG> amavisd-snmp-subagent[1333]: Can't locate NetSNMP/OID.pm |
| 12:56.42 | jelly | [14:38:18] <nbusrone> PETURBG : i am not good at it but did you install libnet-snmp-perl https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libnet-snmp-perl |
| 12:56.44 | PETURBG | so there is second username |
| 12:57.07 | jelly | [14:35:37] <nbusrone> PETURBG : ? which OS you are runnning ? [14:35:46] <PETURBG> ubuntu [14:35:54] <PETURBG> 18 |
| 12:57.14 | PETURBG | jelly dont lost time. do you know what answer is. |
| 12:57.14 | jelly | so which is it, Ubuntu 18 or Debian |
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| 12:59.53 | jelly | goes to help someone who isn't actively deceitful |
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| 13:00.41 | jelly | PETURBG, if you want my help, be honest and provide true info in the future |
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| 13:08.24 | PETURBG | jelly i dont lie person like you. if you dont want help dont help. but insult person is bad. I tell one time and will not repeat. |
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| 13:10.05 | jelly | PETURBG, I do want to help, and I do not like when people say one OS in one channel second OS in second channel. If that is not lying, I'll apologize. |
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| 13:12.06 | PETURBG | jelly unknown what you are comment. |
| 13:12.19 | PETURBG | someone honest person can comment what is happening: https://pastebin.com/NTEvUUfC |
| 13:13.36 | PETURBG | jelly i receive all day appologize from company calling all day, i receive all day from peoples from streets apologize... and all they are lie. so if every day preson receive lie apologize what is results. |
| 13:14.23 | jelly | Ubuntu is not Debian. You were asking about the same issue in #ubuntu and in #debian |
| 13:14.52 | jelly | PETURBG, do you have two amavis installations, one on Debian, one on Ubuntu, with same problem? |
| 13:15.08 | PETURBG | jelly unknown what you ar comment. you are blocked. you are trolling the same lie again and again. |
| 13:15.48 | *** mode/#debian [+o jelly] by ChanServ |
| 13:16.10 | Haohmaru | so long PETURBG |
| 13:16.42 | *** part/#debian PETURBG (2e1ad4d0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.46.26.212.208) |
| 13:17.27 | jelly | I only ask they be honest, and would have continued in the right channel. But play dumb... eh |
| 13:18.09 | *** mode/#debian [+b $a PETURBG] by jelly |
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| 13:19.14 | oxek | this is the first time I actually see op in #debian |
| 13:19.49 | Haohmaru | aww |
| 13:20.13 | *** mode/#debian [-o jelly] by ChanServ |
| 13:20.24 | Haohmaru | don't be shy jelly |
| 13:20.28 | oxek | I see ops are hiding amongst the rest of us |
| 13:20.45 | Haohmaru | oxek there's also aliens |
| 13:20.50 | Haohmaru | <spooky.jpg> |
| 13:20.53 | jelly | and dogs and cats |
| 13:20.54 | oxek | aliens are old news |
| 13:21.25 | oxek | plus you shouldn't use alien on debian |
| 13:21.29 | Haohmaru | no, these particular ones came recently, they're pretty wtf-ish o_O |
| 13:22.08 | EdePopede | do you behave differently when you see ops around? do you treat them differently from other people? if you can answer both questions with a NO then there's no need for visible ops. |
| 13:22.17 | Haohmaru | jelly i wish the +r be changed to the +q alternative ;P~ |
| 13:23.04 | Haohmaru | wait till ChanServ and debhelper go away, then <party.gif> |
| 13:24.09 | jelly | Haohmaru, I don't know if the spammers are still too active for that, with +r at least the user immediately sees what the problem is |
| 13:25.12 | Haohmaru | with +r it's kinda annoying if you manually identify into NickServ and you have auto-rejoin |
| 13:25.58 | Haohmaru | i think hexchat and/or znc go dumb then, and if i'm on enough +r channels i get excess flood |
| 13:26.09 | jelly | see if your client can use server password for freenode; there is still a race condition, but it's slightly better |
| 13:26.15 | Haohmaru | recently i got k-lined like that |
| 13:26.41 | jelly | hexchat used directly can do that; dunno what I use for znc |
| 13:26.44 | Haohmaru | i *am* using a server password already cuz i connect to znc |
| 13:27.00 | jelly | I mean for the connection from whatever to freenode |
| 13:27.06 | Haohmaru | i use mIRC+hexchat simultaneously connected to znc |
| 13:27.24 | jelly | connnection from hexchat to znc is irrelevant, freenode doesn't see that |
| 13:27.27 | Haohmaru | anyway, since that k-line, i /part-ed most +r channels |
| 13:27.32 | oxek | mirc is still around? Does it work in wine? |
| 13:27.42 | Haohmaru | mIRC is eternal |
| 13:28.15 | jelly | I tried to use hexchat native a month ago when I was on windows, and ended up running an X server and Linux hexchat instead |
| 13:28.21 | Haohmaru | it "recently" dropped support for win98 ;P~ |
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| 13:28.56 | jelly | linux hexchat deals with hidpi on windows much better than native windows app |
| 13:29.00 | Haohmaru | hexchat only annoys me |
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| 13:29.46 | Haohmaru | default settings are not good, it does /who # on join and other such crap |
| 13:30.10 | jelly | I have like 3-4 clients, phone, maybe tablet, laptop, desktops at home and work, everything hexchat except android devices |
| 13:30.51 | Haohmaru | on crapdroid i looked thru the available IRC clients, found one that wasn't horrific, it had a stupid name like yaiic or such |
| 13:31.42 | Haohmaru | that and Hacker's keyboard |
| 13:32.10 | Haohmaru | not because i'm a h4x0r but because normal layout or gtfo ;P~ |
| 13:33.00 | oxek | regarding android, I wish debian would package scrcpy for buster-backports |
| 13:33.08 | Haohmaru | anyway, just put one vote for swapping the +r for +q-blahblah |
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| 13:33.53 | Haohmaru | most channels were on +r then switched to +q |
| 13:34.01 | oxek | and one vote to not have +r nor +q, and make me +o, I'll deal with all the spam ;) |
| 13:34.19 | Haohmaru | aww |
| 13:35.01 | oxek | (I don't really want +o, seems like a lot of work) |
| 13:36.37 | Haohmaru | i know a trick: +b *!*@* +e $me |
| 13:36.43 | Haohmaru | works for any kind of spam ;P~ |
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| 13:42.29 | oxek | lol |
| 13:42.39 | oxek | would be a lonely life though |
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| 14:15.01 | Bushmaster | I am seeking a friend, who goes by trek00 |
| 14:15.11 | Bushmaster | can anyone has seen him |
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| 14:18.26 | jelly | dpkg, seen trek00 |
| 14:18.26 | dpkg | trek00 <~trek@dynamic-adsl-84-221-76-212.clienti.tiscali.it> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 101d 19h 1m 14s ago, saying: 'i mean with ipv4 address only but ipv6 enabled kernel'. |
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| 14:19.37 | thorrent | hi all |
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| 14:23.34 | thorrent | I'm not sure you can see my comment :( |
| 14:23.36 | Haohmaru | Bushmaster /msg NickServ info trek00 |
| 14:23.47 | Haohmaru | 4-ish weeks ago |
| 14:26.59 | jhutchins | Any recomendations for (live) music recording hardware? USB input box, mic? Software? |
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| 14:28.50 | jhutchins | thorrent: I don't see any comments by you. Did you have a Debuan support question? |
| 14:29.12 | jelly | thorrent, we can see it in this +r channel just fine |
| 14:29.58 | jelly | jhutchins just pretends he didn't! |
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| 14:32.43 | Haohmaru | jhutchins an adequate soundcard and then audacity maybe? |
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| 14:35.18 | jhutchins | Haohmaru: That might be enough to get started. |
| 14:36.18 | jhutchins | Hm, I actually have electrics that I wouldn't have to mic... |
| 14:37.05 | Haohmaru | there are audio interfaces with both instrument/line inputs and mic inputs |
| 14:37.47 | Haohmaru | which of them work "nice" with linux - i don't know, afaik mine has supposedly a good driver (envy24-based) |
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| 14:38.13 | Haohmaru | there should be a pile of different cards under that one driver alone |
| 14:38.23 | Haohmaru | mine doesn't have mic inputs |
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| 14:46.20 | jhutchins | This one looks pretty good: https://www.presonus.com/products/audiobox-usb-96 |
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| 14:47.02 | jhutchins | Has interesting combined XLR 1/4" inputs. |
| 14:48.07 | Haohmaru | jhutchins no linux mentioned |
| 14:49.35 | genr8_ | theyre usually class compliant, so unless you need some kind of configuration program to run, then its gonna still record audio |
| 14:49.53 | Haohmaru | "usually" ? |
| 14:50.00 | Haohmaru | i'm skeptical |
| 14:50.05 | Haohmaru | mine isn't class compliant |
| 14:50.45 | genr8_ | what is yours |
| 14:50.59 | Haohmaru | m-audio delta 2496 |
| 14:51.41 | *** mode/#debian [+o jelly] by ChanServ |
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| 14:52.08 | *** mode/#debian [-b *!drowsyivy@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-uvwhimdzwsjqkxuc$##fyc] by jelly |
| 14:52.13 | jhutchins | That audiobox is 99.95 (out of stock until Sept.) |
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| 14:53.12 | Haohmaru | there are many sound/midi interfaces for music/audio, but beware that most of them care for crapdows and crApple OSes |
| 14:53.12 | sgo11_ | hi, what is the best way to install KDE Plasma 5.19? I am running debian 10. It's not in the repo. Thanks. |
| 14:55.46 | jhutchins | Haohmaru: Well, like genr8_ said, if it has USB audio out you don't need the fancy software. |
| 14:56.04 | Haohmaru | does it? |
| 14:56.09 | jhutchins | Linux has some pretty good audio options. |
| 14:56.26 | jhutchins | Haohmaru: It looks like the audiobox does. If not, it goes back. |
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| 14:57.01 | Haohmaru | jhutchins i'd ask the support guys |
| 14:57.10 | genr8_ | either way its not a debian question |
| 14:57.13 | jhutchins | If they re-stock it, I might splurge on the kit that has mic, cables, and headphones. |
| 14:57.28 | jhutchins | Left my good headphones at work, they still haven't shipped my stuff. |
| 14:57.48 | jhutchins | Haohmaru: Good thought. |
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| 14:59.45 | genr8_ | whats the bot command to get the package versions from testing/unstable for kde-standard ? |
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| 15:00.38 | jelly | /msg judd versions packagename or v packagename |
| 15:01.11 | jelly | will show versions from all still supported releases if a package exists there |
| 15:01.21 | jelly | ,v coreutils |
| 15:01.22 | judd | Package: coreutils on amd64 -- jessie: 8.23-4; stretch: 8.26-3; buster: 8.30-3; bullseye: 8.30-3+b1; sid: 8.32-3 |
| 15:02.01 | jhutchins | No pre-sale support. |
| 15:02.06 | jhutchins | Sorry, this is OT. |
| 15:02.33 | jhutchins | (Thought I was in a different channel.) |
| 15:02.58 | genr8_ | that didnt exactly give the right version for KDE i was expecting |
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| 15:03.14 | genr8_ | realizing idk the right package name now either.. |
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| 15:05.06 | genr8_ | ,v plasma-desktop |
| 15:05.08 | judd | Package: plasma-desktop on amd64 -- jessie: 4:4.11.13-2; stretch: 4:5.8.6-1; buster: 4:5.14.5.1-1; bullseye: 4:5.17.5-3; sid: 4:5.17.5-3 |
| 15:06.00 | genr8_ | there. KDE 5.17.5 is available. 5.19 is not ready yet unless you compile it yourself which is a dumpster fire. |
| 15:06.21 | g0zzy | Getting very confused about VLC. When i ssh to my Debian box from my phone i get a 'vlc command prompt' . I'm able to use typed commands like pause,play, seek etc. yet i see no mention of this in the docs. Only command line *options* to vlc. Any ideas? |
| 15:07.01 | genr8_ | its a command line version of vlc, its a normal thing. |
| 15:08.01 | jelly | there's an (ex?) debian developer packaging very new Plasma and very new KDE Apps for testing/unstable, somewhere |
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| 15:09.17 | jelly | genr8_, here. I have no idea how well his packages are made. But you're on testing/unstable already so you can take breakage and probably have backups. :-) |
| 15:09.20 | jelly | https://www.preining.info/blog/2020/08/kde-plasma-status-update-2020-08-13/ |
| 15:11.08 | g0zzy | genr8_: How is it invoked? |
| 15:11.45 | genr8_ | cvlc usually |
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| 15:12.05 | oerheks | plasma 5.19 ... something about license fee ? https://www.qt.io/blog/qt-offering-changes-2020 |
| 15:12.13 | g0zzy | I don't get a prompt with cvlc. Just no gui |
| 15:12.25 | genr8_ | I suppose if you have no X connected, it might know that and revert back to command line |
| 15:13.34 | g0zzy | Ah you mean if i _have_ got an X session, then the prompt won't appear? |
| 15:14.28 | genr8_ | likely |
| 15:14.39 | genr8_ | its got a buncha alternative interfaces: https://i.imgur.com/geIZqfd.png |
| 15:14.52 | g0zzy | It certainly would display why i get it with the phone (no X) and not with my laptop (X). But then there should be a way of forcing it |
| 15:14.57 | genr8_ | the regular GUI is the Qt one |
| 15:15.19 | genr8_ | theres for sure a way, i just dont use that option |
| 15:15.23 | genr8_ | its documented somewhere |
| 15:15.44 | g0zzy | Right thanks. You've given me a lead |
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| 15:18.49 | genr8_ | oerheks, unrelated/FUD. |
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| 15:20.11 | genr8_ | https://ev.kde.org/2020/04/06/changes-in-qt-and-the-kde-free-qt-foundation/ |
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| 15:22.36 | genr8_ | thats why this organization exists, to manage license sheit like this |
| 15:23.51 | genr8_ | nobody seems like they understand QT license to begin with, dont break your brain over it. its handled already. |
| 15:23.59 | g0zzy | discovers with some digging and thanks to genr8_ that to get a 'VLC prompt' you can do vlc -I rc |
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| 15:24.57 | genr8_ | yes, ty, now i can know the real command for the thing i half-knew too ;p |
| 15:25.42 | sgo11_ | Plasma 5.19 looks pretty good to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrzauspVx_g I also heard that kde has less memory than gnome and xfce nowadays. Whatever. Any good kde debian repos which support plasma 5.19? |
| 15:26.08 | genr8_ | he linked one <jelly> https://www.preining.info/blog/2020/08/kde-plasma-status-update-2020-08-13/ |
| 15:26.20 | g0zzy | 'rc' == remote control |
| 15:26.34 | genr8_ | ya |
| 15:28.06 | genr8_ | sgo11_, click the "see this post" link. repos are hosted by opensuse but they're for debian because this particular guy made them |
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| 15:29.55 | genr8_ | not sure why unstable is still on 5.17.5 from Feb 14 2020 if testing is also |
| 15:29.59 | genr8_ | they mustve fallen behind |
| 15:30.19 | sgo11_ | genr8_: thanks a lot. Due to the limited of my English and the IRC UI, if nobody mentioned @myname, I don't really know who is talking to who. :) |
| 15:31.02 | genr8_ | ok |
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| 15:32.14 | sgo11_ | that's why I missed the link. ^_^ thanks so much for letting me know. |
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| 15:34.38 | jelly | KDE and Plasme have apparently been behind because of missing build deps (version of Qt 5, and maybe others) |
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| 15:36.17 | jelly | sgo11_, there is no build of Plasma 5.19 for Debian 10 that I know of. Those are only for testing and unstable branches. |
| 15:37.55 | Haohmaru | KDE? less memory than xfce?! really?! |
| 15:38.21 | sgo11_ | jelly: got it. thanks a lot. I am checking the URL you posted. :) |
| 15:38.50 | Haohmaru | how much are we talking here? on lxde i get like under 300MB when i log into the desktop, iirc |
| 15:39.20 | wrksx | On my disk the first partition is 1 1049kB 2097kB 1049kB bios_grub |
| 15:39.49 | wrksx | I guess that's what the computer is booting first ? |
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| 15:43.47 | diogenes_ | the fact tha KDE uses less memory than Gnome or Xfce doesn't make it lighweight at all, it still needs good GPU, kwin still uses a lot of resources (comparing to Xfce). |
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| 15:51.03 | jhutchins | diogenes_: I'd be amazed if KDE used less memory than xfce having used both. |
| 15:51.36 | Haohmaru | same |
| 15:52.12 | Haohmaru | i thought KDE is more like over 600MB |
| 15:54.39 | jhutchins | Haohmaru: I suppose it depends on what components you have loaded, but there aren't even as many components available in XFCE. |
| 15:55.10 | Haohmaru | i generally need programs, not "components" |
| 15:55.37 | Haohmaru | and i use lxde, so not much opinion on xfce besides that it's acceptable too |
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| 15:56.43 | jhutchins | Haohmaru: Well, KDE had a lot of programs integrated with the OS and able to cooperate with each other, like your email address book could support addresses to use in kwrite. |
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| 15:56.57 | jhutchins | xfce has some of that. |
| 15:57.14 | diogenes_ | jhutchins, i only wanted to point out that people put stress on less memory usage mistakenly considering that as a sign of lightweight DE and forgetting about CPU/GPU load. |
| 15:57.28 | jhutchins | That's one of the things that was so horrible about kde4, it had SO MANY MOVING PARTS! |
| 15:58.13 | Haohmaru | meh |
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| 15:58.22 | jhutchins | kmail was trying to run found different databases on four different servers, and another database was trying to index the whole computer including mounted network shares. |
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| 15:59.59 | sgo11_ | The story why I plan to use kde starts from a photo viewer. I have spent a very long time to find a good photo viewer. In the past, I always avoided trying kde apps. I nearly tried all non-kde photo viewers. None of them feels good and none of them supports webp animation. Today, I finally tried "gwenview" and it supports webp animation out-of-box. |
| 16:00.34 | Haohmaru | i like the lxde one |
| 16:00.43 | sgo11_ | Then, I found these two URLs: https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/7phvqp/why_is_kde_given_so_bad_reputation_in_online/ and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrzauspVx_g |
| 16:00.59 | Haohmaru | what i hate is most pdf viewers.. i found a gud one.. qpdfview |
| 16:01.44 | jhutchins | I use geegee, gimp, and imagemagick (actually, the fork) and I think my wife uses gwenview, all on xfce. |
| 16:02.53 | sgo11_ | I think gwenview is the only one which supports webp animation in Linux world. I really tried all photo viewers. I am sorry to skip kde apps in the past. |
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| 16:04.56 | Haohmaru | i don't even know wut webp is |
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| 16:15.22 | jhutchins | https://developers.google.com/speed/webp |
| 16:15.27 | sgo11_ | Many photos I got online these days are webp. If I remembered correctly, it's a google chrome image format. |
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| 16:16.32 | jhutchins | 3x smaller than PNG. |
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| 16:19.50 | wrksx | I have a boot issue, boot sequence hangs when trying to boot from the disk |
| 16:20.15 | wrksx | I'm wondering if my bios_grub could be corrupted |
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| 16:20.28 | wrksx | is this possible to check the content of it? |
| 16:20.41 | wrksx | is it hard to regenerate? |
| 16:20.53 | sney | !fixmbr |
| 16:20.53 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 16:22.37 | wrksx | what does that mean -> run "mount /boot/efi" **on EFI** |
| 16:22.44 | wrksx | thanks sney |
| 16:24.03 | sney | wrksx: it means if debian is running in efi mode, run 'mount /boot/efi'. bios/legacy users don't need to do this |
| 16:24.46 | wrksx | sney: right. I would guess I'm not using EFI but not sure, how could I check this? |
| 16:25.11 | wrksx | It's a debian server on hardware I've never seen and didn't configure the bios |
| 16:25.48 | wrksx | but my fstab do not have anything about /boot/efi |
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| 16:26.14 | sney | most systems made in the past 5 years are efi. you can check for the existence of /sys/firmware/efi, it won't be there on a bios system |
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| 16:27.21 | wrksx | sney: okay, so no firmware means not EFI for sure I guess =) |
| 16:28.28 | wrksx | sney: update-grub will write to /boot and install-grub to my "mbr" partition? |
| 16:28.42 | wrksx | I'm confused with the terminology about gpt mbr and stuff |
| 16:28.55 | wrksx | disks are on gpt partitioning |
| 16:29.06 | sney | mbr isn't a partition, it's the root sector of your disk. but otherwise yes. |
| 16:29.40 | wrksx | so even with gpt you still call it mbr? |
| 16:30.20 | wrksx | fdisk shows that |
| 16:30.24 | wrksx | Device Start End Sectors Size Type |
| 16:30.38 | sney | mbr just stands for "master boot record". it's the boot sector of the primary disk on your system. every disk has a boot sector regardless of what partition table type is used |
| 16:30.41 | wrksx | - /dev/sda1 2048 4095 2048 1M BIOS boot |
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| 16:30.48 | sney | don't paste to the channel please |
| 16:30.56 | wrksx | sorry my mistake |
| 16:31.27 | wrksx | so that sda1, is this the MBR? |
| 16:32.23 | sney | [10:29:06] <sney> mbr isn't a partition, it's the root sector of your disk. |
| 16:32.36 | sney | it's before the partitions. |
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| 16:32.52 | wrksx | okay |
| 16:33.32 | another | it lies in the first 512B of the disk |
| 16:33.55 | wrksx | so install-grub is goin to write to the MBR (first 512B), but not to the sda1 aka bios_grub? |
| 16:34.42 | sney | you seem confused |
| 16:34.47 | wrksx | indeed |
| 16:34.53 | wrksx | very confused |
| 16:35.33 | sney | update-grub will generate the contents of /boot/grub, then call grub-install which will write the bootloader to the MBR. |
| 16:35.40 | sney | this is how grub installs work on bios systems. |
| 16:35.49 | sney | there is no such thing as "sda1 aka bios_grub" |
| 16:36.25 | another | actually, there is |
| 16:36.31 | wrksx | but I have it on my system |
| 16:37.00 | sney | if you installed grub to /dev/sda1 instead of /dev/sda that could explain why your system is not booting. |
| 16:37.18 | another | GPT cleaned up a lot of the mess that was DOS partitioning |
| 16:37.21 | sney | another: not that I'm familiar with, so you can take it from here if the standard that I just covered doesn't work |
| 16:37.47 | wrksx | sney: basically the system was working fine |
| 16:37.49 | mason | What's the overlap between dpkg-reconfigure grub-foo (-efi-amd64 and pc) and update-grub? |
| 16:38.03 | mason | Does the dpkg-reconfigure invoke update-grub or grub-install? |
| 16:38.20 | wrksx | then I had a kernel update, no reboot, then a network driver update (updated grub automatically) then next reboot hangs |
| 16:38.38 | mason | I'm puzzling out some ordering issue in my debootstrap-based install scripting, and doing it from inside a chroot has some odd issues. |
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| 16:38.46 | mason | I need to track it down. |
| 16:39.04 | sney | the grub package's postinst script runs update-grub, which would also be the result of dpkg-reconfigure, as well as anything else in the given grub package's control scripts. |
| 16:39.08 | another | in traditional dos partitioning, grub would install stage 1 to mbr, stage 2 to /boot and stage 1.5 in the unclaimed space between MBR and first partition |
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| 16:39.35 | mason | sney: kk, ty |
| 16:40.37 | another | in GPT it is forbidden to store data in unpartitioned space |
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| 16:41.06 | merethan_w | Hi all |
| 16:41.18 | mason | another: And yet, this happens. I've got an HBA that writes metadata to the end of the disk, trashing the secondary GPT partition. \o/ |
| 16:41.25 | jelly | wrksx, does that tiny partition have a filesystem on it? |
| 16:41.33 | mason | s/partition/& table/ |
| 16:41.55 | merethan_w | Should I use scons as build system? (Reason asking here is because distro packagers encounter a lot of different build systems.) |
| 16:42.26 | another | mason: ... great. |
| 16:42.49 | mason | another: I was excited. Debugging it was interesting. |
| 16:42.56 | jelly | mason, I read that as "I formatted a disk from outside the hw raid and wasn't aware hw raid metadata has to go _somewhere_" :-) |
| 16:43.19 | mason | another: Even more exciting, it only did this in UEFI mode. Legacy, it wouldn't smash the secondary table. |
| 16:44.07 | mason | jelly: That would be my suspicion if this controller were doing hardware RAID, but it's passing through plain disks, or so it says. I mean, clearly it's not quite doing what it suggests. |
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| 16:44.27 | jelly | perhaps a bit too plain. |
| 16:44.30 | mason | I did briefly have to fake out single-disk RAID 0 disks on a controller, but I quickly replaced it. |
| 16:44.47 | mason | s/disks/arrays/ |
| 16:45.06 | sney | that sounds like defective hardware or maybe a driver bug. HBAs shouldn't be adding junk to writes |
| 16:45.21 | mason | Wholly agreed. First issue I've had with SuperMicro. |
| 16:45.42 | jelly | smells like LSI |
| 16:46.25 | sney | I think most of them are LSI on the board, yeah. I've never had meaningful trouble with a LSI SAS but I also haven't used any of the more recent models |
| 16:46.28 | jelly | it's a good thing it only ruined metadata and not data |
| 16:46.47 | mason | That, and my ability to sidestep it by booting in legacy mode. |
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| 16:59.29 | yanmaani | Is there any way to find packages that'd free up space if you did 'sudo apt-get remove X --purge && sudo apt-get autoremove --purge'? |
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| 17:01.28 | sney | !deborphan |
| 17:01.28 | dpkg | deborphan is a package that will tell you what library packages you have installed that nothing's using. If you want remove all packages use 'deborphan | xargs apt-get -y remove --purge', or a nice tool to clean up grown debians. http://deb.li/3qpqF provides a nice guide to several more steps to reclaim big chunks of HDD. Ask me about <debfoster><autoremove><unmarkauto>. |
| 17:02.13 | yanmaani | No, I want the opposite. I want to find what packages I should remove to make the maximum number of orphans. |
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| 17:02.57 | yanmaani | If A depends on B and C, and D depends on C and E, and G depends on X, Y, and Z, then I'd get 1 orphan from removing A or D alone, but 3 from removing G |
| 17:03.06 | petn-randall | yanmaani: Just all packages you don't need anymore? Not sure how your approach is supposed to work. |
| 17:03.06 | sney | iirc there's another utility that shows what suites/metapackages are taking up the most space, but I can't remember the name |
| 17:03.15 | sney | it might be in debian-goodies |
| 17:03.26 | petn-randall | pigz shows only big packages, not orphaned ones. |
| 17:03.40 | sney | pigz, that was it, I think |
| 17:03.43 | yanmaani | Is that with the size of unique dependencies included? |
| 17:03.59 | yanmaani | Because I'm trying to find packages I installed for some one-off thing that had obscene amounts of dependencies |
| 17:04.01 | petn-randall | Wait, it was a different name. |
| 17:04.16 | sney | debianpigs or something like that |
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| 17:04.36 | petn-randall | yanmaani: Then I'd go through the list of manually installed packages, and remove all you don't need anymore. |
| 17:04.54 | petn-randall | yanmaani: If you use aptitude, it'll show you how much space is getting freed directly. |
| 17:05.33 | yanmaani | petn-randall: What's the command for that? "get size of package + size of all unique deps" |
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| 17:07.00 | petn-randall | yanmaani: Run `aptitude`, then "View" -> "New Flat packages list", then filter by manually installed packages by pressing l and then typing "!~M ~i" as filter. |
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| 17:07.20 | petn-randall | yanmaani: Any package you remove with underscore will instantly show you how much space is freed. |
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| 17:07.57 | yanmaani | But then I can't sort by space? |
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| 17:15.00 | petn-randall | no. |
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| 17:16.38 | yanmaani | is there any way to show the total size of the deps of a package? |
| 17:16.55 | yanmaani | Like if you do `apt-get remove --dry-run thunar` it'll list a few packages that will be removed |
| 17:17.01 | greycat | I tried "apt-get -s purge ksh" but it didn't show sizes so I gave up. |
| 17:17.01 | Aristide | Hello yanmaani :) |
| 17:17.20 | Aristide | greycat: apt show yourpackage |
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| 17:17.42 | Aristide | AH total size |
| 17:17.43 | greycat | Aristide: the goal is "how much space will I reclaim if I purge x which depends on y". |
| 17:17.44 | Aristide | Sorry x) |
| 17:17.57 | Aristide | I don't have see « total size » x) |
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| 17:18.36 | greycat | (with the implication that one is using apt autoremove or an equivalent, so that y is also purged) |
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| 17:20.08 | yanmaani | OK, here's an awful oneliner that almost works |
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| 17:20.13 | yanmaani | (aptitude search '~i!~M' -F '%p' | while read i; do echo $(apt-get remove --dry-run "$i" | tr '\n' ' ' | grep 'no longer req.*autoremove' -o | wc -c) : $i; done) | sort -g |
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| 17:20.56 | yanmaani | Using "length of package removal list" as a proxy for "size" |
| 17:21.00 | greycat | starting from aptitude search just sounds like horrible pain to me |
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| 17:22.16 | yanmaani | maybe so but it does the job |
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| 17:22.52 | petn-randall | yanmaani: IMHO it's a bit over-engineered. If you need disk space, just start removing things you don't need. That's good practice from time to time, anyway. |
| 17:23.10 | yanmaani | what, that's far more effort |
| 17:24.01 | petn-randall | I'd say it takes less time than this discussion did. |
| 17:24.09 | greycat | I agree with petn-randall |
| 17:24.58 | greycat | In the past, when disk space was limited, I've followed the basic pattern of "list all the installed packages in descending order by size, and remove the biggest one I can find that isn't needed". |
| 17:25.21 | yanmaani | Yeah, that's what I want to do |
| 17:25.34 | yanmaani | Including the dependencies |
| 17:25.40 | greycat | So do it. You're making life MUCH too damned hard on yourself trying to cobble together this recursive nightmare. |
| 17:25.51 | yanmaani | if package X is 30 kb but has dependencies of 300 MB, that approach won't find it |
| 17:26.12 | greycat | See, you did not understand me. I said what I meant. I did NOT try to carve out some nightmare recursion script. I just removed SINGLE PACKAGES. |
| 17:26.30 | greycat | You are making up a scenario that does not exist. |
| 17:26.48 | yanmaani | What do you mean, doesn't exist? This is a thing that is a problem for me. I have that scenario all the time. |
| 17:27.13 | greycat | If there's a 300 MB dependency like "gnome-tetris-bot-music" then you will see it when you list the packages by size, and you'll remove that, and it'll remove gnome-tetris-bot along with it, and voila. |
| 17:27.39 | yanmaani | What if it's split up among 300 small packages with innocuous names like libasdjuid-dev? |
| 17:27.43 | greycat | What is the ACTUAL PACKAGE that you think you can't spot and remove by yourself without a script to identify it for you? |
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| 17:28.31 | frotz47 | yanmaani: removing a package does not mean all the needed dependents will always be removed because another package "x" needs to still have a same dependent so what you want can not be done |
| 17:28.49 | yanmaani | greycat: If I knew that, I wouldn't need the script, now would I? This has happened to me in the past. |
| 17:29.04 | yanmaani | I realize I no longer need "X", delete it, and whoops there goes 300M of deps with it |
| 17:29.07 | beelzebuzz | :D |
| 17:29.07 | greycat | So you THINK the scenario happens "all the time" and yet somehow you cannot recall a SINGLE instance of it. |
| 17:29.21 | yanmaani | frotz47: Right, that's why I'm looking for single dependents |
| 17:29.44 | greycat | Whatever. It's another cultist. "I have a tool I want to use and I'm looking for a problem that will require it." |
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| 17:29.56 | frotz47 | apt-cache showpkg "x" will do that |
| 17:29.58 | yanmaani | I don't have a tool in mind |
| 17:31.32 | yanmaani | frotz47: Will that find unique deps? |
| 17:31.44 | yanmaani | if A and B have 100% common deps, it should come up blank for A/B alone |
| 17:31.58 | frotz47 | it shows reverse ones and direct ones |
| 17:32.14 | frotz47 | just nothing about sizes |
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| 17:56.25 | yanmaani | How do I remove a package and replace it with a newer version? |
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| 17:57.34 | sney | install the newer version. dpkg will do the upgrade for you |
| 17:57.54 | yanmaani | These are separately marked packages, not sure how to call them |
| 17:57.59 | doubletwist | So if you needed a package repo/channel management that supported both .deb and .rpm and it COULDN'T be Katello, what would you use? |
| 17:58.02 | yanmaani | I have clang-6.0 and I'd like to install a newer version |
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| 17:58.21 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 17:58.32 | sney | compilers that have separate names for separate versions can be installed side by side. |
| 17:58.54 | sney | the "active" one (e.g. what runs if you just run 'clang') is usually managed with update-alternatives. |
| 17:59.16 | yanmaani | Hm, so I just get the new one and have it provide the dependencies, then remove the old one separately |
| 17:59.21 | igserrano | How can I trace the running processes when the system freezes? |
| 17:59.30 | mason | doubletwist: There's no good answer. |
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| 18:00.24 | doubletwist | that's dissapointing |
| 18:00.26 | sney | doubletwist: package managers aren't designed to be interoperable. anything you do with >1 package manager on a single system is going to be a kludge. it's 2020, why not containerize/virtualize separate debian and redhat environments? |
| 18:00.28 | petn-randall | igserrano: It really depends what you mean with a frozen system. |
| 18:00.47 | doubletwist | because not everything needs containers |
| 18:00.55 | petn-randall | igserrano: If your system literally freezes and doesn't allow any in- or output, then it's impossible. |
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| 18:02.07 | doubletwist | Spacewalk has been working fine for our *EL based systems (mirroring repos, promoting channels through dev/test/prod). But we need to add some debian-based systems now and I need something to support the same functionality for debian repo mirrors. I'd prefer something that can do both rather than 2 separate systems. |
| 18:02.50 | doubletwist | Katello can but I have other serious issues with Katello in that I can't get it to work and it's got major incompatibilities with oru system (can't even install if a salt minion is installed) |
| 18:03.56 | mason | doubletwist: Spacewalk has been deprecated now. |
| 18:03.57 | petn-randall | doubletwist: spacewalk has only limited support for Debian, so there's not much we can do about that. |
| 18:04.07 | doubletwist | I know. that's why I'm looking for an alternative |
| 18:04.29 | mason | doubletwist: I did the same search since I tend to run a number of systems. It's a space waiting to be filled. |
| 18:04.43 | petn-randall | doubletwist: ansible/chef/puppet? |
| 18:05.23 | doubletwist | petn-randall: those are config management. I already use saltstack. I need a replacement for Spacewalk (package repo mirroring and package channel lifecycle) |
| 18:05.43 | mason | doubletwist: Someone's going to have to write a new one for the purpose. |
| 18:06.11 | mason | I personally think it would be pretty worthwhile, but I haven't had time or inclination to tackle it as yet. |
| 18:06.26 | doubletwist | mason: Yeah. Supposedly that's Katello but after a dozen attempts over 2 years, I have yet to be able to successfully get ANY "theforeman" related system to work in even the most basica capacity. |
| 18:06.39 | igserrano | petn-randall: My system freezes completely, I can only exit by shutdown the hardware. So, how can I identify the problem? |
| 18:07.38 | igserrano | I used Gnome 3, but now with cinnamon I am facing the same issues |
| 18:09.37 | petn-randall | Ah, maybe I don't fully understand the scope of spacewalk. I guess for Debian(-based) OSes you could use something like mini-dinstall for managing private repos. |
| 18:09.51 | mason | igserrano: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Netconsole and I'll see if there's something directly Debian |
| 18:10.52 | mason | igserrano: Oh, heh, looks like there's a netconsole package shipped. That'd be a good start. |
| 18:10.59 | mason | https://packages.debian.org/buster/netconsole |
| 18:11.10 | petn-randall | igserrano: I'd try to log in remotely via ssh or switch consoles via ctrl+alt+F3. It both fails, you have a true freeze and won't be able to debug it that way. |
| 18:13.10 | igserrano | Thanks |
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| 18:32.06 | davidv7_ | when I log in with ssh, do the contents of .profile execute? They should right? |
| 18:32.41 | greycat | Yes, assuming you just do "ssh user@host" and not "ssh user@host some command". And assuming your shell is bash, or some other Bourne family shell. |
| 18:33.09 | greycat | And assuming you don't have a ~/.bash_profile or ~/.bash_login file. |
| 18:33.15 | davidv7_ | because i added a simple echo ".profile got executed" |
| 18:33.19 | davidv7_ | and nothing got printed out |
| 18:33.44 | greycat | Go over the details, one by one. What command did you actually type? |
| 18:34.08 | davidv7_ | ssh user@host |
| 18:34.45 | greycat | what's your login shell on that system? The last field of "getent passwd $LOGNAME" |
| 18:35.05 | davidv7_ | bin bash |
| 18:35.14 | greycat | ls -l .profile .bash_profile .bash_login |
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| 18:35.54 | davidv7_ | .profile exists, bash_profile doesnt, and bash_login doesn't |
| 18:38.00 | davidv7_ | wait a reboot worked |
| 18:38.05 | davidv7_ | im on the right track. |
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| 18:41.57 | davidv7_ | if it runs with a command, the .profile doesn't execute? |
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| 18:42.03 | davidv7_ | i mean, i guess it doesn't i just tried it |
| 18:42.42 | greycat | It was in the first thing I said. |
| 18:43.15 | mason | davidv7_: "man bash" and read "INVOCATION" |
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| 18:44.13 | davidv7_ | ok so it's just /etc/profile that gets launched |
| 18:44.30 | greycat | Wrong. |
| 18:44.59 | greycat | But I feel like I'm being trolled, so ... this isn't likely to last much longer. |
| 18:45.05 | davidv7_ | you're not |
| 18:47.56 | davidv7_ | unless we're counting BASH_ENV im not seeing anything else in the man page |
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| 19:02.25 | mason | davidv7_: Did you read the INVOCATION section? |
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| 19:03.03 | mason | davidv7_: Rather, let me rephrase. Go read it, as it answers your questions. |
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| 19:06.34 | greycat | He's too busy giving vague, inaccurate paraphrases of what he did, instead of showing what he's actually doing, to read documentation. |
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| 19:10.02 | mason | Admittedly, a lot of documentation is so *dry*. |
| 19:11.12 | greycat | True. But I told him step by step what to look for, and if he had specific questions, we could answer those. |
| 19:11.31 | greycat | Incredibly false statements like "it reads /etc/profile but not .profile" are not helpful in any way. |
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| 19:20.28 | yanmaani | is `apt-get dist-upgrade --autoremove --purge` safe? |
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| 19:22.28 | davidv7_ | "dry" is not the word i'd use, it's ass if you're not looking up stuff you already understand. like what does: https://pastebin.com/Re3dXSwd even mean? |
| 19:22.48 | davidv7_ | i've read that part like 3 times, and I don't think you understand that it's not something that just click instantly |
| 19:23.09 | sney | yanmaani: basically, just make sure you read the whole list of what apt plans to do before accepting so you don't get any surprises. |
| 19:24.18 | greycat | The first thing you need to know about /etc/bash.bashrc is that it's abnormal. It's a thing that Debian hacked into its versions of bash. Normally no such global file is read. |
| 19:25.05 | greycat | The second thing you need to know about NON-login shells with ssh is that Deian also hacked its versions of bash to do the ssh trick, whereby it tries to determine that your shell is a non-login shell invoked by sshd, and in that case, it will read the user's .bashrc file, which is NOT NORMAL. But Debian does it. |
| 19:25.38 | greycat | But if you had a SPECIFIC question and if you showed what you ACTUALLY did, then there are people here who could answer the question. |
| 19:25.58 | davidv7_ | okay, i'm putting it into context |
| 19:26.54 | greycat | If you were to compile bash yourself from gnu.org sources without any Debian patches, you would not have any /etc/bash.bashrc type files, and you would not get the confusing ssh trick where it reads .bashrc unexpectedly. |
| 19:27.43 | davidv7_ | I'm running a binary command from a source computer( openSUSE tumbleweed desktop), the command is nix-copy-closure, which, so you don't have to read up about it, runs an ssh command with arguments. The command it runs on the TARGET computer, needs to have a shell script sourced before hand, so it knows where to look for the binaries. |
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| 19:28.18 | greycat | where's the Debian part? |
| 19:28.18 | davidv7_ | when i run that command, the shell script doesn't get sourced in time |
| 19:28.22 | davidv7_ | the target is the debian |
| 19:28.45 | davidv7_ | so ssh user@host command -> command doesnt exist |
| 19:28.58 | davidv7_ | because the command needs to be sourced before that gets executed |
| 19:29.15 | greycat | You can source the necessary crap from ~user/.bashrc on the Debian host because of the ssh non-login shell trick that Debian hacked in. |
| 19:29.19 | dasher00 | I always thought the files are used by different types of login shells. |
| 19:30.29 | davidv7_ | sourcing it in .bashrc is the first thing i tried, and it didn't work |
| 19:30.29 | dasher00 | ".bash_profile is read and executed when Bash is invoked as an interactive login shell, while .bashrc is executed for an interactive non-login shell.", |
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| 19:31.03 | davidv7_ | then i tried with .bash_profile -> reboot, removed the bash_profile, and tried /etc/profile |
| 19:31.19 | greycat | When you run "ssh user@host somecommand", bash is not supposed to read ANY FILES from the user's directory or from /etc. None. But Debian hacked it so that it does. Although who knwows, maybe they changed it again. |
| 19:32.20 | greycat | http://paste.wooledge.org/3585 |
| 19:32.27 | greycat | It still works. |
| 19:32.48 | davidv7_ | the plot thickens |
| 19:32.54 | davidv7_ | :/ |
| 19:33.08 | dasher00 | yeah but the command via ssh will be the "non-interactive" so it depends and afaik quite often default shell is /bin/sh not /bin/bash |
| 19:33.16 | greycat | As I said: Debian's bash is hacked to read the user's .bashrc when invoked as a child of sshd even though it's not an interactive shell. |
| 19:33.42 | greycat | dasher00: the user account in question must be correctly configured for the job at hand, which in this case will include setting its login shell to bash. |
| 19:34.46 | greycat | (Don't you just love how the original question was a complete fabrication? I love that SO much.) |
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| 19:38.40 | yanmaani | How can apt run with 0.0B of space? Does it pre-allocate? |
| 19:39.00 | f8e4 | hi, what is simple paint windows like for debian? gimp is f*** usability |
| 19:39.01 | sney | root has some reserved disk space |
| 19:39.23 | yanmaani | f8e4: There's krita, but it may not be what you want |
| 19:39.26 | diogenes_ | sney, gpaint? |
| 19:39.30 | Xunile | Hi all, anyone available for a helping hand ? Got a clean Debian 10 system, setup as a host and 1 KVM guest. Problem is guest can only communicate with host but can't reach anything else. If any veteran around i'm willing to provide a fair fee for your time to help troubleshoot it. Probably need some one good with networking / routing and KVM. It's in routed mode so not bridging to avoid MAC issues in the DC. Thank you |
| 19:39.39 | diogenes_ | sorry f8e4 gpaint |
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| 19:40.30 | sney | Xunile: you don't need to offer people money in this channel. and you probably just need to set up nat with your hypervisor, whichever one you're using. There's probably a manual or howto |
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| 19:40.52 | yanmaani | ah shit it got no space left on device, even though it said it should be good |
| 19:41.31 | f8e4 | diogenes_ oh yes, ty |
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| 19:43.03 | magyar | hi, I'm trying to upgrade stretch to buster and getting these errors >> https://termbin.com/9ii0 |
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| 19:45.21 | sney | magyar: is that what happens when you run 'apt full-upgrade'? |
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| 19:46.07 | Xunile | sney, thank you, i've been struggling for a while with it and life is not making it easier on other parts :( I currently don't have NAT setup to avoid using the prepackaged libvirt network setup. Just though simple routing logic would work in interfaces. |
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| 19:47.39 | Xunile | sney, the section "Routed (brouter)" of this link shows the setup for interfaces: https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/network/net-config-debian/ |
| 19:47.49 | sney | your hypervisor may also have a bridging option so you don't need a separate network segment between host and guest |
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| 19:49.12 | sney | and if this is a hosting provider-specific setup, then you should be talking to them for support. |
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| 19:50.08 | magyar | sney: apt-get update && apt-get upgrade it never gets to apt full-updrade |
| 19:50.29 | sney | magyar: try apt full-upgrade. |
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| 19:51.38 | chr0no2 | cheers :D |
| 19:52.54 | magyar | sney: I get this error >> https://termbin.com/77ze1 |
| 19:53.42 | sney | magyar: please pastebin your sources.list and the output of 'apt policy' |
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| 19:56.48 | greycat | according to judd, apache2-bin on stretch doesn't depend on libcurl* at all, and the buster version depends on libcurl4 instead |
| 19:58.26 | magyar | sney: https://termbin.com/4ltk and https://termbin.com/nefp |
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| 20:00.15 | magyar | my apache version is 2.4.43-1~bpo9+1 |
| 20:00.22 | greycat | Ahhh, backports. Remove it. |
| 20:00.31 | magyar | remove apache ? |
| 20:00.34 | greycat | Don't purge it. Just remove. |
| 20:00.41 | sney | you can install it again once the upgrade is done |
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| 20:00.52 | magyar | got you, let me try that |
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| 20:06.30 | magyar | so backports is not something that should be used |
| 20:06.32 | magyar | ? |
| 20:06.53 | greycat | Backports are fine, but when you do a release upgrade, they may break things, so you may have to remove them first. |
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| 20:07.38 | greycat | Hopefully, the functionality you were looking for in the backport will be present in the regular stable version of the package, so you won't have to do a backport again. |
| 20:10.50 | CyberManifest | backports are confusing, "back" seems regregression instead of upstream |
| 20:11.05 | CyberManifest | feels old |
| 20:11.28 | greycat | It's a backward port of a future release's package to a past release. |
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| 20:12.07 | greycat | In this case, he was running on stretch, but wanted an apache from buster-as-testing, so he used a backport, from a time before buster was released. Hence the weird dependency. |
| 20:12.27 | CyberManifest | greycat: yeah, but the terminology isn't intuitive IMHO |
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| 20:27.02 | oxek | I know I can prevent an application from updating by doing "apt-mark hold PACKAGE". But this prevents updating indefinitely. What is an easy way of 'skipping' the currently offered upgrade, and only offer an upgrade again once an even newer version of a package is available? |
| 20:27.12 | oxek | do I need to write a whole pinning.pref file for it? |
| 20:27.22 | oxek | or is there a simple command just like "apt-mark hold"? |
| 20:27.32 | greycat | undo the hold when you feel it's safe |
| 20:27.46 | oxek | greycat: that works, but it means I need to remember I created that hold |
| 20:28.08 | oxek | (yes, I know apt shows x packages held back) |
| 20:28.11 | greycat | you'll be told that a package is held, every time you do an apt update, right? |
| 20:28.25 | oxek | yeah, but some packages I want to be held indefinitely |
| 20:28.40 | oxek | for those I already use 'apt-mark hold' |
| 20:28.58 | oxek | it's not a problem if a solution does not exist yet, I was just wondering if I missed anything |
| 20:29.48 | nkuttler | i would never want a held package to be upgraded automatically |
| 20:30.15 | oxek | nkuttler: same, but that's not what I am describing |
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| 20:32.40 | oxek | the scenario is like this. I have app version 1.0 installed. 1.1 is offered, but I know it contains a breaking bug. So I want to stop being offered this broken version, and only be offered a version 1.2, where I can once again decide if I install it or not. |
| 20:33.20 | sney | there isn't a way to do that automatically afaik but the information is available so it's scriptable |
| 20:33.23 | oxek | if I use 'apt-mark hold', it means I will never be offered upgrades again, including for version 1.2, 1.3, etc. |
| 20:33.33 | nkuttler | oxek: so you just want to see *if* there was a new version of the package? |
| 20:33.53 | oxek | nkuttler: yeah, whenever I do 'apt update' |
| 20:34.40 | nkuttler | i see. sounds like a fairly trivial script to write to me, but i have a wrapper for upgrading anyway |
| 20:35.07 | oxek | I know I can work around all this by creating a specific file with pinning instructions that contain the exact broken version. However, that is a lot more work than 'apt-mark hold', so I was wondering if something as easy as 'apt-mark hold' already exists for this situation. |
| 20:35.34 | nkuttler | the easy solution is probably to use stable |
| 20:35.36 | oxek | 'apt-mark hold-this-version PACKAGE' |
| 20:35.57 | oxek | nkuttler: this is more of a question regarding 'apt' functionality rather than debian I guess |
| 20:36.14 | oxek | I use debian, but not all software is available in debian |
| 20:36.26 | oxek | s/debian/debian-stable/ |
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| 20:37.31 | ryouma | doesn't pinning (at least with apt-get and aptitude) allow for excluding specific versions? |
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| 20:39.12 | oxek | ryouma: it does, but it means I need to manually create a specific pinning file with instructions |
| 20:39.50 | ryouma | oh you said that |
| 20:39.55 | oxek | it's a tedious task, and it's something that must have crossed someone's mind already to improve upon (just like creating apt-mark hold instead of some echo dpkg setselections). |
| 20:40.20 | oxek | so I did a search online and did not come across anything like that, and am thus wondering if I missed something obvious |
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| 20:42.41 | ryouma | i think some of this stuff is almost ad hoc, or a bit crufty. apt is new. |
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| 20:42.46 | ryouma | (1) |
| 20:42.57 | ryouma | (or 8, whatever) |
| 20:43.35 | sney | it wouldn't take much to have a script that checked apt policy for a given package and sent an email when a certain minimum version is available, or removed the hold automatically etc |
| 20:43.47 | greycat | I can't imagine it's a *common* need. If you're holding a package, it's usually because you're depending on a specific feature/bug of the old version that newer versions have permanently abandoned. You wouldn't want to just try again when foo-1.2-2 is released which fixes a minor documentation bug in foo-1.2-1. |
| 20:44.48 | greycat | The other case I can imagine doing something like this is if a security update for foo has an accidental bug. In that case, the security team apologizes and releases the next version in a few hours or a day. So you won't even need to keep the hold in place for long. |
| 20:45.27 | oxek | greycat: you are correct, and the issue is that I use 'apt update' to inform me that newer packages exist - I don't manually check on some website that newer versions exist |
| 20:45.40 | oxek | and I know myself - I am very likely to forget about having places this hold |
| 20:45.47 | greycat | so you're one of those filthy #debian-next people? |
| 20:45.56 | oxek | nope, am banned from oftc |
| 20:46.01 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 20:46.03 | oxek | (not my fault, just my IP) |
| 20:47.17 | oxek | thank you for helping, and confirming that I have not missed something obvious. I'll do my workaround. |
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| 20:47.53 | ryouma | iiuc i think your desire is reasonable but has perhaps been relegated to pinning, and as a solution exists, nobody has thought to make it more non-file-based |
| 20:48.03 | oxek | (if only oftc had sasl, then it could let people with registered accounts connect from banned IP addresses) |
| 20:49.14 | oxek | I might make a script that parses 'apt list --upgradable' to extract package name and version and put a pin on it |
| 20:49.35 | oxek | I might even call it 'apt-holdthisversion PACKAGE' :) |
| 20:49.36 | ryouma | pinning is pretty complex (and i am not sure if it matches the man page, or did when i used it ()and i stopped using it by moving to stable |
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| 20:52.10 | jhutchins | Isn't there a way to contact the ops about a ban? oxek can't be the only one with this problem. |
| 20:52.48 | oxek | jhutchins: they know about it, I don't contest it - I'm using a VPN, which shares the IP with many users, and it's very likely some users did something bad to oftc |
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| 20:54.40 | oxek | it's an ok solution to their problem... and if they implemented SASL then they could still let good users through |
| 20:55.10 | oxek | btw I have the same problem with debian wiki - I am banned on it too |
| 20:55.19 | oxek | 403 FORBIDDEN |
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| 20:58.05 | ningu | where are dpkg configuration options stored? like when you do dpkg-reconfigure to reset them, where are they saved? |
| 20:58.48 | ningu | ok I see, it uses debconf |
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| 21:01.33 | beelzebuzz | anyone mind giving me the buster output of "lsb_release -cs"? would be appreciated |
| 21:03.34 | beelzebuzz | assuming it's just "buster" |
| 21:03.38 | oxek | beelzebuzz: yes |
| 21:03.40 | oxek | just buster |
| 21:03.54 | beelzebuzz | thanks |
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| 21:04.20 | oxek | beelzebuzz: whatever you're doing, probably better to parse /etc/os-release |
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| 21:06.33 | beelzebuzz | i'm on arch atm but trying to chop at a debian script. just wasn't sure if that -cs flag was saying something else |
| 21:08.01 | MikeDebian | Anyone familiar with linux bonding mode 4 (LACP: 802.3ad) ? |
| 21:08.36 | oxek | beelzebuzz: The issue is that lsb_release is on its way out |
| 21:08.49 | beelzebuzz | that's fine |
| 21:09.17 | beelzebuzz | not my fault other people are still using it to script stuff :D |
| 21:09.38 | oxek | let them know |
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| 21:17.15 | oxek | this is how I solved my pinning problem https://termbin.com/bubn |
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| 21:25.05 | oxek | will see if it works as I think once a newer version comes out |
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| 21:34.02 | jhutchins | MikeDebian: I just saw something about eperimental two-channel tcp/ip. |
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| 22:29.57 | hassoon | tona: eacher newly created notification container gets a higher z-index tha the previous one |
| 22:30.30 | hassoon | meh |
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