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| 00:13.20 | Case_Of | hi, what package could contain perl Mozilla::CA library? |
| 00:15.02 | alexrelis[m] | I'm having a strange problem on my sister's laptop. So I replaced the keyboard and fan recently, and for whatever reason on Debian, the system shuts down a few seconds to a minute after boot. This doesn't happen on Windows. And it doesn't happen when I leave the BIOS settings running. |
| 00:15.17 | alexrelis[m] | And it's not an abrupt shutdown. It's simply a graceful shutdown, almost as if I pressed the power button. |
| 00:15.25 | alexrelis[m] | (But I didn't) |
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| 00:15.52 | gry | are you typing on the keyboard, or doing completely nothing? |
| 00:17.56 | alexrelis[m] | "gry" (https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_gry:matrix.org): nothing. |
| 00:18.39 | alexrelis[m] | Well, sometimes it doesn't turn off to the point where I can type in the username. But then it shuts off soon after. And then there are times where it shuts off when systemd boots. |
| 00:19.42 | short-bike | Anything logged in dmesg ? |
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| 00:22.15 | alexrelis[m] | "short-bike" (https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_short-bike:matrix.org): I'll try but I might have to chroot from another system since it'd keep turning off. |
| 00:22.20 | alexrelis[m] | Lol. |
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| 00:39.26 | gry | why isn't virtualbox extension pack packaged for debian? |
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| 00:39.46 | gry | I'm reading https://www.itzgeek.com/how-tos/mini-howtos/how-to-install-virtualbox-extension.html and not seeing a lot of sense there. |
| 00:40.04 | sney | virtualbox isn't in debian because oracle doesn't cooperate with debian policies |
| 00:40.28 | sney | they have always been snooty about licensing but I think this issue was actually to do with security patches |
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| 00:41.38 | gry | sney: what can I use instead of virtualbox to install another OS .iso as a guest? |
| 00:41.42 | gry | sney: would qemu work? |
| 00:41.43 | sney | virt-manager |
| 00:42.04 | sney | yes, qemu works, virt-manager provides you a gui that actually uses qemu for the actual virtualization |
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| 01:10.05 | alexrelis[m] | KVM/Qemu is honestly better. |
| 01:10.30 | short-bike | +1 to that. |
| 01:10.45 | sney | it's all different interfaces to libvirt, just use what's appropriate in a given situation |
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| 01:15.55 | sney | got the virtualbox factoid updated at least. the old one read too much like an endorsement. |
| 01:15.57 | sney | !virtualbox |
| 01:15.58 | dpkg | Oracle VM VirtualBox is a software virtual machine solution. Not in buster and unlikely to be in any future debian stable releases due to #794466. 3rd party packages are available from Oracle, see https://wiki.debian.org/VirtualBox to install; we recommend <virt-manager> instead. http://www.virtualbox.org/ #vbox on irc.freenode.net. See also <virtualization> |
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| 01:41.12 | somiaj | can't virt-manager manage vbox as well as qemu-kvm (factoid seems a bit weird due to that) |
| 01:42.15 | sney | according to virt-manager.org, virt-manager can manage kvm, xen, and lxc. |
| 01:42.50 | sney | I'm not aware of anything other than vbox being able to manage vbox vms, though various utilities can open/mount vdi files iirc |
| 01:43.15 | wyoung | sney: Last time I messed with that Virtual Box conflicted with other VMs. I am not sure if this is still the case. |
| 01:44.09 | somiaj | guess my memeory was a bit off, I recall when I first started looking at libvirt it could also deal with vbox. |
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| 01:44.27 | somiaj | https://libvirt.org/drvvbox.html |
| 01:44.43 | wyoung | Your knowledge is more recent than mine then |
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| 01:45.07 | somiaj | though I guess virt-manager may not have all of libvirts options in the gui. |
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| 01:46.40 | sney | the main point is that if someone wants a point-and-clicky VM manager in debian, virt-manager should be their first choice, but if they need virtualbox-brand virtualbox, they can go to that wiki link. |
| 01:47.08 | sney | they don't need a oneliner kludge from dpkg explaining how to add a 3rd party repository. |
| 01:48.21 | somiaj | Yup, I just found it strange when I read it, but from someone who just wants an easy to install vm system it is the way to go, though isn't gnome-boxes becomming more popular too? |
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| 01:50.44 | sney | according to popcon, virt-manager is about 4x as popular as gnome-boxes. |
| 01:50.56 | sney | IME they're pretty interchangeable, but the numbers are clear |
| 01:53.38 | ryouma | the only vm thing that i could get to work a few years ago was virtualbox, and with great effort. the big issue was font size. |
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| 01:53.54 | ryouma | (i need very large) |
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| 01:54.34 | sney | the virtualized hardware is definitely limited. I've had significant fights with windows guest OSes due to that |
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| 01:57.26 | ryouma | in which? |
| 01:58.58 | sney | in all except hyper-v, really |
| 01:59.16 | ryouma | the main thing i was doing was trying to install debian while running debian. using a pass through something or other to disk. it was able to do that. and i was able to get it to hav its menus and so on use large fonts. |
| 01:59.20 | sney | not specifically to do with font size, but some display issues, and disk or network i/o as well |
| 01:59.59 | Casper26 | I installed firefox 80 in /opt/firefox how can i get it to launch in terminal by just typing firefox? I already removed firefox-esr. |
| 02:00.36 | sney | symlink the firefox binary to /usr/local/bin, is probably what I would do |
| 02:01.42 | sney | mozilla may have an official recommendation on their website. |
| 02:02.35 | Casper26 | Thank you |
| 02:03.10 | ryouma | (installing debian from cd is a burden for me because of the need to physically put the cd in and the bright blue and bright white and the small fonts and the fact that i can't do other things at the same time and so on; i was able to, althought perhaps slighly brokenly, get that to work. it was good, but a lot of effort.) |
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| 02:07.23 | ryouma | it was inspiring though that you could do vm in principle |
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| 02:35.46 | somiaj | Casper26: If you only need it for your single user, a link in $HOME/bin also works. |
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| 02:38.30 | GaiusCaesar | is there an apt -nodepends? |
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| 02:39.15 | sney | that's an oxymoron. |
| 02:39.36 | sney | you can force packages to install sometimes... but usually it breaks something, either now, or later when you least expect it |
| 02:39.50 | sney | if you're having trouble with a missing dependency, check out equivs. otherwise, actually fix the problem. |
| 02:40.23 | GaiusCaesar | yeah, I kludge most things, afai recall --nodepends was a way to install something and not get all the extra libs or so, eg kde app on buster |
| 02:40.27 | GaiusCaesar | kalarm |
| 02:41.36 | GaiusCaesar | it wants 64MB |
| 02:42.22 | somiaj | you want --no-install-recommendeds, but expect some things to not work as a result, there is also an apt.conf option to disable recommends by default (not recommended) |
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| 02:51.42 | GaiusCaesar | ah gracias |
| 02:54.50 | ryouma | there is also the option of periodically purging stuff like htat. here is my amateur script: apt-get -o "Apt::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant=false" purge `aptitude search ~c | db wsv2o` `deborphan ${1:+--guess-all}` |
| 02:55.04 | ryouma | plus autoremove which workssometimes |
| 02:55.40 | somiaj | I think there is some packages that use recommended when it should be suggested, but in general by defaintion most will want recommended packages. |
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| 02:58.03 | GaiusCaesar | only was gonna save me 5M I guess 65 isn't so bad |
| 02:58.47 | GaiusCaesar | just suspicious of Kde bloat |
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| 03:00.48 | fuxxy | I got strace installed on my openwrt device, but there's a perl project to help decode strace. Am I correct in the assumption that I can pipe the strace output to my debian box to the perl script? |
| 03:02.12 | sponix | I didn't know strace was encoded |
| 03:03.38 | fuxxy | it's "encoded" as in escaped C, from my understanding |
| 03:04.23 | sponix | you have something crashing ? |
| 03:06.01 | fuxxy | It's not crashing. It's a closed source program that's hammering my NTP server. I'll keep reading on my own. |
| 03:06.46 | sponix | fuxxy: interesting |
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| 03:12.41 | fling | Is it possible to tell apt to not try installing certain files? |
| 03:12.47 | fling | Or to not fail if write is failed? |
| 03:12.54 | gry | sney: virt-manager is confusing |
| 03:13.04 | gry | sney: how do i connect it to qemu if a qemu vm is not yet running? |
| 03:13.09 | fling | sure, lxd can do virual machines now |
| 03:14.03 | fling | lxc console --type=VGA my-windows-machine |
| 03:14.08 | somiaj | fling: sounds like an XY problem, what issue are you having. If running debian stable things should just work. If you are having trouble with apt, please provide the following information |
| 03:14.12 | somiaj | !bat |
| 03:14.12 | dpkg | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 03:14.13 | gry | fling: are you speaking with me? |
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| 03:14.25 | fling | gry: yes, I suggest trying lxd instead |
| 03:15.13 | fling | somiaj: I want to have few config files mounted readonly and I don't want apt to worry about not being able to rewrite them or to make it to not even try writing |
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| 03:16.25 | sponix | gry: pretty sure on my rig, putting my user in the libvirt and libvirt-qemu groups helped me do things |
| 03:16.43 | somiaj | fling: first dpkg (since that is the actual programing installing) won't overwrite config files unless you give it permission. So if you make modifications to configuration files, dpkg will leave them alone. What config files do you have mounted read only? |
| 03:16.49 | gry | sponix: ok :) |
| 03:16.49 | sponix | fling: a config file can be made to be just read only, doesn't need to be mounted on a read only file system for that |
| 03:17.33 | fling | sponix: I know about chattr +i, but the config files will be mounted from another host |
| 03:17.40 | fling | sponix: thanks for the info! |
| 03:17.46 | somiaj | gry: also be careful, are your vms in the user or system uri (there is qemu://user and qemu://system, and virt-manager will use system by default and thus as sponix pointed out you need to be in the proper groups) |
| 03:17.46 | jmcnaught | You only need to be in the libvirt group. |
| 03:18.17 | somiaj | sory qemu:///session (Which is for the user) |
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| 03:18.59 | somiaj | I personally have to set export LIBVIRT_DEFAULT_URI="qemu:///system" to make sure virsh by default access the system (which is what virt-manager uses by default) |
| 03:19.42 | sponix | somiaj: is that better ? |
| 03:19.48 | somiaj | fling: can you give an example of the configuration file a package is trying to overwrite, (just want to make sure it is a config file regerested with debconf) |
| 03:20.38 | fling | somiaj: don't have one yet, still planning. |
| 03:20.46 | fling | I will tell you more if/when I hit an issue. |
| 03:20.52 | somiaj | sponix: My understanding is it is more a management decision. When I first started using vms, I installed with root, so had to change the URI so my user could also access them. |
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| 03:22.03 | somiaj | fling: in general actual config files (if you modify them, so make sure they are different even if just you just put in a comment), dpkg will not overwrite them once the package is installed. It will aks you what to do, and then create a configfile.dpkg (or something like that) with the system one and leave your user one alone. |
| 03:22.22 | somiaj | so just mount the config files after the install of the package (there maybe ways to tell debconf about the config ahead of time, but not certain here) |
| 03:23.02 | sponix | somiaj: hmm, I've always been under the impression from a security standpoint doing things with the least privileged account possible was better. And normally things I put in VMs are to keep them contained. Thus running them as a user in user mode vs system/root |
| 03:23.57 | somiaj | sponix: I think if either root or the user does the work, in the end it is libvirt user's permissions the vm has. It is just a matter of which vms virsh can see. |
| 03:25.05 | fling | somiaj: ok got it |
| 03:25.23 | jmcnaught | libvirt runs the VMs in qemu:///system as the user & group libvirt-qemu, so it gets reduced privileges, but you don't want your user to be in the libvirt-qemu group, only the libvirt group is needed to control libvirt. |
| 03:25.45 | sponix | somiaj: interesting |
| 03:26.01 | somiaj | guess I was mistaken. https://blog.wikichoon.com/2016/01/qemusystem-vs-qemusession.html |
| 03:26.25 | somiaj | seems virt-manager defaults to qemu:///system just because that is what it was doing before qemusessions were worked out. |
| 03:26.57 | somiaj | I was more just pointing out that if the vms are in qemu:///session then virt-manager won't see them by default (though wasn't very clear about that) |
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| 03:29.49 | somiaj | though at least on debian, you don't need the root password to access qemu:///system, being in the correct groups is fine. |
| 03:32.32 | somiaj | (reading that over, I think I ended up using qemu:///system due to networking and setting up the bridge, as that was the easiest way I found at the time) |
| 03:32.58 | jmcnaught | Yeah you're limited to user mode networking with qemu:///session |
| 03:34.02 | sponix | jmcnaught: what "limits" does that impose ? |
| 03:34.06 | sponix | vs system |
| 03:35.47 | jmcnaught | sponix: with user mode networking you will not be able to access the guest from the host. The guest will be able to access the host and the internet, but this wouldn't work for something like learning apache2 in a VM. |
| 03:35.57 | somiaj | sponix: the limits seem to be that you end up having to become root to configure the networking, then the session can access it. |
| 03:39.55 | sponix | will keep this in mind for the next time I give libvirt a go |
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| 04:19.00 | somiaj | jmcnaught: why don't you want to be in libvirt-qemu (currently removing myself form that). |
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| 04:22.04 | jmcnaught | just the principle of least privilege, there's no need to be in the group that libvirt runs qemu processes as. |
| 04:26.09 | somiaj | okay, I think I am just in that group as I fumbled around figuring out what groups I needed, and then have just coppied it over. Thanks |
| 04:26.48 | jmcnaught | On your own system there's probably little risk, my point was more that only libvirt group membership is needed. |
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| 04:29.21 | somiaj | Understood, but would rather limit the groups I'm in if it isn't needed. I have just been using the groups I found that work without to much tought, which is probably poor decision on my part. |
| 04:29.49 | somiaj | well time for a reboot |
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