| 00:00.09 | oxek | already done, but don't feed my alias addiction: alias | wc -l gives me 61 results |
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| 00:00.32 | oxek | I know I have a problem |
| 00:00.32 | another | 23 |
| 00:01.09 | oxek | I should learn zsh, it automatically expands aliases as you type them |
| 00:01.11 | oxek | or was that fish? |
| 00:01.20 | another | ok, one more that i use like 20 times a day, every day: |
| 00:01.21 | oxek | either way, it would be good for me |
| 00:01.21 | another | alias cdtemp='cd $(mktemp -d)' |
| 00:01.22 | cluonbeam | I think both do to some extent. |
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| 00:03.04 | jhutchins | So how many systems are you going to log in to that don't have bash, if not as the default shell, then at least as available? |
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| 00:04.28 | jhutchins | When the number of your $HOME directories starts to approach four figures, keeping everything as close to the installed defaults starts to seem like a good idea. |
| 00:05.17 | oxek | ~/dotfiles as a repo on github |
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| 00:08.05 | jhutchins | oxek: You really want to do that 1500 times? What happens when you change companies? |
| 00:08.49 | jhutchins | oxek: Yeah, that's a handy policy for smaller clusters, but that's not where your shell is set. |
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| 00:09.23 | jhutchins | oxek: I know of people who have a shell script on some git server that goes through and does all of their customization. |
| 00:10.15 | jhutchins | Years ago though, I was asked to sit down at a workstation and do a fairly simple task, and I was so used to all of my shortcuts and customizations it took me 15 minutes just to get to the task. |
| 00:11.02 | jhutchins | It depends on what kind of environment you work in. If you're in the industry, three years is a long time. |
| 00:12.19 | jhutchins | Then there was the time I was tasked to do a skills assesment, and the keyboard had been left set to Hungarian. (Didn't get that one.) |
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| 00:36.28 | CyberManifest | can anyone here tell me how to add this key: to my system: https://ftp-master.debian.org/keys/release-10.asc |
| 00:37.07 | CyberManifest | I don't seem to have a grasp on pgp and asc and keyring and such |
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| 00:44.29 | jhutchins | CyberManifest: Unless you've done something strange with your system you shouldn't have to. |
| 00:44.54 | CyberManifest | jhutchins: I'm building a frankenmachine |
| 00:45.08 | CyberManifest | jhutchins: so in a way I have done something strange with my system |
| 00:45.17 | jhutchins | Ok. I was just going to ask how you'd dug this hole, but there it is. |
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| 00:45.49 | jhutchins | Let's try this, it might have a clue: |
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| 00:45.52 | CyberManifest | jhutchins: honestly I don't have any problems presently, I just wish to add that key and in the process learn about it |
| 00:45.52 | jhutchins | !ssb |
| 00:45.53 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
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| 00:46.14 | jhutchins | !key |
| 00:46.14 | dpkg | Install the latest debian-archive-keyring package to get the latest GPG key used to sign the Debian archive. |
| 00:46.26 | jhutchins | Hmm. |
| 00:46.45 | cluonbeam | https://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt#How_to_find_and_add_a_key |
| 00:46.47 | jhutchins | !archive key |
| 00:46.56 | jhutchins | cluonbeam: Thank you. |
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| 00:47.40 | CyberManifest | jhutchins: first I'm not wanting to add back ports, second, I've already installed debin-archive-keyring package but I'd like that Official Key and not the Archive |
| 00:48.01 | jhutchins | There's at least one factoid that has the command string to download and add the key, but I'm not sure what it is and I don't want to spew 20 factoids to find it. |
| 00:48.44 | CyberManifest | !gpg key |
| 00:48.50 | jhutchins | CyberManifest: I know, I was hunting for the random factoid that has both steps. Hit cluonbeam's link. |
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| 00:50.44 | CyberManifest | jhutchins: cluonbeam, again that's in regards to standard archive keys I'd like to add the encrypted key https://ftp-master.debian.org/keys/release-10.asc |
| 00:51.17 | cluonbeam | Read the manual, and follow the steps. |
| 00:51.29 | cluonbeam | Apply what you've learned. Critical thinking. You want to learn, I'm not going to hand you the answer. |
| 00:51.56 | CyberManifest | cluonbeam: that manual refers to specific key numbers and not an encrypted .asc |
| 00:52.24 | cluonbeam | I know exactly what it refers to, but everything you need is in that document. |
| 00:53.01 | CyberManifest | cluonbeam: which man ? |
| 00:53.47 | cluonbeam | Read through the very brief section that you were linked to. There's only two commands listed. |
| 00:53.59 | CyberManifest | cluonbeam: that's a wiki not a man |
| 00:54.10 | CyberManifest | thanks for trying to confuse me more |
| 00:54.21 | cluonbeam | Again, I know that. But "there are two commands listed" means that the man page for ONE of those commands has what you're looking for. |
| 00:54.51 | cluonbeam | You come in here stating that you literally intend to build a frankenbox, which is unsupported in this channel, and that you want to learn. So I'm nudging you as much as you ought to be, and you're complaining. |
| 00:55.03 | cluonbeam | I could take the channel hard-line rules route and say "frankenboxes are unsupported, have a nice life." |
| 00:58.45 | CyberManifest | what an egregious obfuscated mess; also *unsupported* and here I thought there was camaraderie in freedom of choice in the Linux community |
| 00:59.45 | CyberManifest | guess I'll switch to arch where things are easier and better supported and more helpful |
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| 01:00.02 | CyberManifest | Thanks all, have a great day |
| 01:00.02 | cluonbeam | Oh, trust me, do stuff like this and ask for help in #archlinux, you'd better be wearing a fire suit. |
| 01:00.10 | cluonbeam | Good luck. :) |
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| 01:04.55 | dvs | So he quit Debian again? |
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| 01:05.41 | cluonbeam | again? |
| 01:06.34 | dvs | The first time was when someone wouldn't explain how to use roam mode for WPA supplicant step by step. |
| 01:06.42 | cluonbeam | There seems to be a pattern, here. |
| 01:06.46 | dvs | yup |
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| 01:07.45 | cluonbeam | I am giggling like a schoolgirl at the idea that that kind of handholding is going to be offered in #archlinux of all places. |
| 01:07.45 | CyberManifest | For anyone else needing help with the same question I had; I found my answer at: https://serverfault.com/questions/984604/debootstrap-release-signed-by-unknown-key |
| 01:08.02 | cluonbeam | Wow, so you CAN help yourself. Will wonders never cease? |
| 01:08.18 | CyberManifest | cluonbeam: their wiki is a better handholding than the obfuscated mess that debian is |
| 01:08.28 | CyberManifest | cluonbeam: yeah and without a man |
| 01:08.42 | cluonbeam | "obfuscated" == "can't figure out man apt-key" |
| 01:08.55 | CyberManifest | cluonbeam: so again you were less than helpful |
| 01:08.56 | cluonbeam | Or even read it. |
| 01:09.12 | CyberManifest | apt-key is deprecated |
| 01:09.27 | CyberManifest | if says so during use |
| 01:09.30 | CyberManifest | even* |
| 01:10.06 | CyberManifest | cluonbeam: it's obvious you don't have a clue |
| 01:10.36 | cluonbeam | It's obvious we have a very different definition for the word "obvious." ;) |
| 01:10.38 | cluonbeam | Have fun. |
| 01:12.08 | cluonbeam | I figured that that option would have been easier for you to follow than managing a gpg keyring in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d, but... that's what I get for trying to do something nice. |
| 01:13.56 | CyberManifest | that's what you get for assuming |
| 01:16.10 | CyberManifest | I learn by example not by obfuscated instruction that implies assumptions and is disparagingly lacking in completeness |
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| 01:22.13 | oxek | cluonbeam: apt-key should not be used anymore |
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| 01:22.19 | oxek | at least not for adding keys |
| 01:22.26 | cluonbeam | It works in a pinch. |
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| 01:22.48 | cluonbeam | And I wasn't telling him what to use, specifically. I was telling him to READ. |
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| 01:23.12 | oxek | wget the key, cp the key to /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/, done |
| 01:23.24 | cluonbeam | I know. |
| 01:23.29 | oxek | they don't |
| 01:23.34 | cluonbeam | They didn't want to read. |
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| 01:24.30 | oxek | I don't want to read either, but when I end up having to do it, I'd rather save others time by telling them what I learned. |
| 01:24.52 | oxek | this simple 'mechanical' knowledge should be distributed |
| 01:25.00 | cluonbeam | The guy came in demanding to be handheld while stating openly that he was doing something to his system that we don't support. |
| 01:25.02 | oxek | so that people can spend time on 'harder' problems instead |
| 01:25.10 | cluonbeam | The CORRECT path would have been to tell him that what he's doing is unsupported, bye. |
| 01:25.14 | cluonbeam | So, let's move on. |
| 01:25.19 | oxek | oh, I didn't read that far |
| 01:25.35 | cluonbeam | CyberManifest | jhutchins: I'm building a frankenmachine |
| 01:26.06 | oxek | to be fair, what is the best place to ask for help with frankendebians? |
| 01:26.14 | cluonbeam | ##linux? |
| 01:26.22 | oxek | yeah, you're right |
| 01:26.25 | somiaj | most likely no one wants to support that |
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| 01:26.59 | CyberManifest | cluonbeam: I read https://serverfault.com/questions/984604/debootstrap-release-signed-by-unknown-key just fine, I couldn't read what you implied because I couldn't guess what it is that you wanted me to read |
| 01:27.13 | CyberManifest | cluonbeam: you I believe wanted me to read the whole wiki |
| 01:27.25 | CyberManifest | which I don't have time, energy, or comprehension for. |
| 01:27.43 | CyberManifest | cluonbeam: so I don't mind reading when it's meaningful and comprehensible to me. |
| 01:28.57 | CyberManifest | cluonbeam: also I didn't demand anything, I made a request |
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| 01:44.40 | CyberManifest | since apt-key is deprecated what is the gpg equivalent of 'apt-key list' when I do 'gpg --list-keys' it made a pubring.kbx but didn't list any keys even when I ran it a second time... neither did 'gpg --list-secret-keys' |
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| 01:50.43 | rocketmagnet | hi everyone, there is a feature to move a window with the alt key, my debian mate has no settings for this in the shortcuts. how is the other program called where i can change such settings ? they are in a hirarchy like org.gnome. etc but i can't recall the name |
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| 04:42.24 | tramplefoot | i dont know how, but dding an 2.8gb iso takes like 5 seconds, but the usb drive keeps flashing afterwards |
| 04:42.37 | tramplefoot | it has been going on strong for almost 5 minutes now |
| 04:42.50 | genr8_ | cache |
| 04:43.39 | diogenes_ | dirty_bytes |
| 04:43.59 | genr8_ | you could probably use the osync flag in dd to avoid that |
| 04:45.11 | tramplefoot | alright will use that next time |
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| 06:13.08 | n4dir | hi. My VGA is: RS482/RS485 [Radeon Xpress 1100/1150] |
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| 06:13.54 | n4dir | and the kernel driver in use is radeon. I got problems with graphics. Some apps start but got a black screen. |
| 06:14.16 | n4dir | http://paste.debian.net/1162818/ |
| 06:15.42 | n4dir | i got non-free enabled and followed the instructions at wiki.debian.org. |
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| 06:18.02 | diogenes_ | n4dir, link fails. |
| 06:18.40 | n4dir | hm. works here. dang. |
| 06:19.28 | kline | works fine here |
| 06:19.50 | n4dir | lspci -k says driver in use is radeon. i added the error message when starting zyn-fusion. |
| 06:19.53 | n4dir | ../src/gallium/drivers/r300/compiler/r300_fragprog_emit.c::emit_alu(): |
| 06:19.56 | kline | diogenes_: come out of your barrel and rejoin the rest of us philosopher-devs |
| 06:20.20 | n4dir | using using a dummy shader instead |
| 06:20.35 | diogenes_ | kline, is that you again Alexander cover the sunlight? |
| 06:21.05 | kline | i should wish to be diogenes |
| 06:21.15 | diogenes_ | :) |
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| 06:22.22 | kline | diogenes_: see also my post from august: https://cmpwn.com/@kline/104761848403680316 |
| 06:23.25 | diogenes_ | lol Socrates looks nice, even after the poison :) |
| 06:24.02 | n4dir | at the top wiki.debian.org mentions three drivers : *mach64 and *video-r128 and *radeon. radeon seems to be used. So i guess i need one of the other two, but how to figure out which one? |
| 06:24.11 | kline | lets make a slight adjustment to the canon and call it nightshade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atropa_belladonna#Cosmetics |
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| 07:08.18 | ym | Hi. I have a little issue with pppd. It starts at bootup ok, journal also says everything is fine - local and remote addresses allocated, but "ip a l dev ppp0" command doesn't shows any addresses allocated and internets aren't pingable. Workaround "systemctl restart networking" works, but I want to figure out, what's the problem. Any suggestions? |
| 07:15.32 | ym | Interfaces configuration is this: |
| 07:15.32 | ym | auto eth1 \ allow-hotplug eth1 \iface eth1 inet manual |
| 07:15.32 | ym | auto rostelekom \ iface rostelekom inet ppp \ pre-up /bin/ip link set eth1 up \ provider rostelekom |
| 07:18.31 | ym | # cat /etc/debian_version |
| 07:18.32 | ym | bullseye/sid |
| 07:19.43 | ym | Don't know how to google it since there is no any error message. |
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| 07:32.00 | shtrb | Good morning , does anyone have a clue how to solve "usb_modeswitch_dispatcher[34997]: Dispatcher for 'usb_modeswitch'; usually run by udev, not intended for interactive operation" message loop ? |
| 07:33.03 | shtrb | sorry wrong channel |
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| 07:39.08 | m3rlin | @ym: did you try this one, https://wiki.debian.org/PPPoE? |
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| 07:43.59 | ym | m3rlin, this is almost my exact config. |
| 07:44.38 | ym | "pre-up /bin/ip link set eth1 up" instead of "pre-up /sbin/ifconfig eth0 up" |
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| 07:49.14 | shtrb | Anyone who still remember udev rules can say if ATTRS{idVendor}=="XXX", ATTRS{idProduct}=="YYYY", RUN+="usb_modeswitch '%b/%k'" is wrong for modern udev/systemd (buster and up) ? |
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| 07:50.49 | m3rlin | I got reference on this, just change 'rostelekom' to 'dsl-provider' |
| 07:51.08 | m3rlin | ym: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=22578 |
| 07:51.11 | m3rlin | try this |
| 07:52.43 | ym | I have "auto rostelekom" in interfaces file. Filename couldn't be the cause of issue. |
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| 07:55.51 | shtrb | ym, didn't see your previous question, but you do know that you might be using networkd and as such that file is not handeld at all ? |
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| 07:56.42 | m3rlin | just replace rostelekom to dsl-provider and try restart network with command '/etc/init.d/networking restart' |
| 07:57.31 | shtrb | ym , https://wiki.debian.org/SystemdNetworkd and systemctl status systemd-networkd to see if you are using it. |
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| 08:01.33 | ym | networkd is inactive. |
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| 08:05.20 | shtrb | ym, if you didn't answer that before , does using pon rostelekom (you should have file /etc/ppp/peers/rostelekom and proper chap-secrets for it) work for you ? |
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| 08:06.57 | ym | I have /etc/ppp/peers/rostelekom and proper chap-secrets for it. The issue is that my configuration works only after systemctl restart networking and not after startup, though logs telling me everything just fine. |
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| 08:08.01 | ym | Will check out one suggestion... |
| 08:10.19 | f8e4 | jmcnaught lol nice |
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| 08:21.35 | ym | Seems like replacing "auto rostelekom" to the top of interfaces file solved the issue I described earlier. Thanks everyone for suggestions. |
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| 09:40.23 | melissa_ | I want the freedom to not install updates for years. If I have my apt sources pointing to testing, and I don't install updates for, say, 3 years, is there a significant chance my system breaks? |
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| 09:42.05 | ratrace | melissa_: all software has bugs, sooner or later. if you're lucky and can run 3 years with no _need_ to apply an update, then all is well. but if (more likely) you end up needing an update, you're setting yourself for big fail unless you run stable. |
| 09:42.19 | melissa_ | And what if I have them pointed to Bullseye, a few more releases come out, and I follow the regular upgrade path of doing apt-get update / system-upgrade and change my sources to the next release until I arrive at the new stable. Is that more or less likely to give problems? |
| 09:42.51 | ratrace | !xy |
| 09:42.51 | dpkg | Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem |
| 09:43.55 | melissa_ | I want to install GNU on a computer that I might not use for years, and then start using again, with little maintenance |
| 09:44.34 | ratrace | you're more likely to achieve that with _stable_ rather than testing |
| 09:45.05 | JPT | If you never connect it to the internet, it is at least /somewhat/ safe to stick with one installation and never update it. |
| 09:45.27 | JPT | If you're going to connect it to the internet, i would always urge you to keep it up to date |
| 09:45.30 | ratrace | as current stable becomes oldstable, 3 years from now you should be able to start usign it again and apply only bugfix and security updates. _sometimes_, but that's rare, they might introduce incompatibilities, esp. over longer time spans, but that's unlikely |
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| 09:46.38 | melissa_ | How so? Because at one point Bullseye will become stable. So if I install that (and point sources to bullseye rather than testing), won't it just take longer until my system gets outdated? |
| 09:47.02 | ratrace | and overtime as oldstable becomes oldoldstable, like today it's still possible to run wheezy or jessie, and there's that "debian LTS" project or whatsitcalled where certain contributors keep maintaining oldoldstable with _some_ security fixes |
| 09:47.24 | ratrace | melissa_: becuse right now bullseye is not stable and it may change until freeze and release in incompatible ways |
| 09:47.46 | ratrace | also, if ou install bullseye _now_ and then reactive that in 3 years, I don't think there will even exist an upgrade path |
| 09:48.09 | melissa_ | I see |
| 09:48.40 | ratrace | most notable upcoming change is depreciation and removal of python2 for example |
| 09:49.10 | ratrace | ("upcoming" in terms of what bullseye will have compared to buster) |
| 09:49.48 | melissa_ | nooo |
| 09:49.52 | melissa_ | don't remove python 2 |
| 09:50.12 | ratrace | it's dead. bereft of life. it ceased to be. it's an ex python. |
| 09:50.41 | nkuttler | python2 is gone from sid |
| 09:50.59 | nkuttler | shouldn't remove it from a stable system though |
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| 09:51.28 | ratrace | well yeah, buster and older releases will continue to have it until heath death of the universe :) |
| 09:51.38 | melissa_ | Why does LTS/Using recommend everyone to add contrib and non-free to their sources? That's a bit disappointing |
| 09:52.20 | gry | link? |
| 09:52.40 | melissa_ | https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using |
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| 09:54.03 | gry | melissa_: it is a wiki, if you sign up <https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using?action=newaccount> then you can edit the page |
| 09:54.07 | ratrace | melissa_: I don't think they specifically recommend to use contrib and non-free, versus not using them at all. That's just an example sources.list |
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| 09:54.41 | melissa_ | Yeah but if people copy/paste that, they will add contrib and non-free even if they didn't have it before |
| 09:55.25 | ratrace | and nothing bad will happen with that. also people should NOT copy&paste from internet into terminals wihtout understanding the code they're pasting |
| 09:55.40 | flayer | i've been doing it wrong all these years! |
| 09:56.05 | melissa_ | So would this upgrade path work? Buster -> LTS, and after June 2024, do an upgrade path to whatever will be stable by that time? |
| 09:56.30 | ratrace | I don't think skipping stable releases is a supported upgrade path |
| 09:56.48 | melissa_ | I mean the regular upgrade path, without skipping any |
| 09:56.55 | ratrace | so you will have to go from buster to bullseye to debian-next-next |
| 09:57.00 | melissa_ | yeah |
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| 09:57.04 | ratrace | in general that works, yes |
| 09:57.11 | melissa_ | Cool |
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| 10:00.47 | brutser | I have put a line in fstab to mount an SD card, this works fine, but when the SD card is not present, it makes boot wait 150 seconds or so for the SD card, is there some way I can tell fstab to not bother when SD card is not there? or should I do this not with fstab if i want this? |
| 10:01.18 | ratrace | brutser: yes, use "nofail" option in the fstab line |
| 10:01.42 | brutser | ah ok :) so nofail says, if it's not there, don't bother? |
| 10:02.00 | ratrace | right |
| 10:02.14 | brutser | ok thanks! |
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| 10:34.48 | jelly | melissa_, LTS is mostly just and extenstion of security support for a release. going with buster and then buster-lts, you still have the usual buster->buster+1 release upgrade path |
| 10:35.20 | jelly | it's not like Ubuntu's LTS that try to support going from one LTS to the next |
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| 10:37.20 | jelly | (and offtopically, ubuntu seem to have some issues with that, going from 18.04 LTS to 20.04 LTS is STILL not ready, even though 18.04.1 was out last month) |
| 10:37.47 | ratrace | *20.04.1 |
| 10:38.06 | jelly | thanks |
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| 10:38.27 | ratrace | but ubuntu always has issues with upgrades. it's a norm more than exception. |
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| 10:39.09 | jelly | dunno, 14.04 -> 16.04 and 16.04 -> 18.04 mostly worked. Issues were mostly Gnome upstream changes |
| 10:39.49 | jelly | and canonical giving up on their Unity thing which was rather nice |
| 10:39.50 | ratrace | and more ontopically, I've always had success with debian stable upgrades. there might be issues with backported packages, and third party repos. |
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| 10:40.34 | jelly | oh lenny->squeeze and etch->lenny were rather problematic, and squeeze->wheezy to some extent too |
| 10:41.13 | jelly | last few were okay IF you read the release notes |
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| 10:42.51 | jelly | going sysvinit->systemd from 7 to 8 was a lot less problematic than introducing udev 4->5 |
| 10:43.22 | jelly | 7->8 was mostly upstream stuff, apache 2.2 -> 2.4 changes and such |
| 10:43.54 | ratrace | there's of course more chance of something going wrong, the more diverse you made your installation in term of packages. but for ubuntu, I've had issues with base installation upgrades, ie. install 16.04 -> upgrade -> do-release-upgrade -> boom |
| 10:44.22 | ratrace | wheezy to jessie surprised me too. I was expecting issues due to init change, yes, but it was just fine |
| 10:46.08 | ratrace | I wonder if python2 removall will mess up buster->bullseye upgrade |
| 10:46.48 | jelly | you don't have to remove obsolete packages if you don't want to |
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| 10:47.53 | jelly | I have a nagging suspicion someone will keep python2-* stuff going in a separate repo, using redhat's 2.7 source as base |
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| 10:55.06 | no_gravity | You can configure git diff colors with values like #ff0000 for red etc. But those don't work when inside screen. Any ideas why and how to make them work? |
| 10:56.08 | ratrace | no_gravity: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GNU_Screen#Use_256_colors |
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| 10:57.22 | no_gravity | ratrace: I think my screen is 256 colors by default. Because I can use 0..255 as color codes. But not #ff0000. |
| 10:59.43 | ratrace | no_gravity: and outside of gnu screen it wroks? git diff uses less as pager by default, which may need tweaking for colors |
| 11:00.26 | no_gravity | ratrace: Outside it works, yes. |
| 11:01.01 | ratrace | and you're 100% you have correct $TERM setting? |
| 11:01.27 | no_gravity | ratrace: What do you mean? |
| 11:01.46 | no_gravity | ratrace: Inside screen, "echo $TERM" outupts "screen.xterm-256color" |
| 11:02.42 | no_gravity | ratrace: You can try yourself: git -c diff.color.old='#ffffff #800000' -c diff.color.new='#ffffff #005000' |
| 11:02.43 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/800000 in src:vdr-plugin-prefermenu (closed, sid): «vdr-plugin-prefermenu: FTBFS: Can't open /usr/share/vdr-dev/dependencies.sh»; severity: serious; opened: 2015-09-25; last modified: 2015-11-02. |
| 11:02.53 | no_gravity | ratrace: You can try yourself: git -c diff.color.old='#ffffff #800000' -c diff.color.new='#ffffff #005000' diff |
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| 11:08.13 | ratrace | bots here really are stupid... they should be made to trigger on explicit keywords. bug #... and not just #... dpkg reacting to ! only, not every sentence starting with dpkg (which is rather not uncommon in a Debian support channel with "dpkg2 being the primary package manager) |
| 11:08.49 | ratrace | no_gravity: I'm not 100% sure but I think with 256 color terminals you don't have the option of specifying random rgb value |
| 11:09.10 | no_gravity | ratrace: Why does my terminal outside of screen support it then? |
| 11:09.26 | diogenes_ | Greg Kroah-Hartman said tha Debian runs the world. |
| 11:09.44 | ratrace | no_gravity: I don't know. approximation? or do oyu actually get 4 billion colors? |
| 11:10.35 | no_gravity | ratrace: I would have to make screenshots with slightly different colors and compare them in gimp ... |
| 11:11.21 | no_gravity | Let me do i t... |
| 11:11.24 | no_gravity | Let me do it... |
| 11:11.25 | ratrace | no_gravity: right. well, I don't know. I misread your original question thinking you need just regular color support, but I'm not familiar with supplying full 32-bit range of colors, sorry. |
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| 11:12.47 | no_gravity | ratrace: Looks like it is not an approximation. |
| 11:13.39 | no_gravity | ratrace: No matter how small of a change I apply to the color, the change results in a different color. |
| 11:13.54 | ratrace | okay, so it does support full 32-bit range |
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| 11:14.20 | no_gravity | Yeah. #800000 is #800000 in the screenshot and #800001 is #800001. Tried with a bunch of colors and it worked every time. |
| 11:16.08 | ratrace | no_gravity: try truecolor on in your ~/.screenrc |
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| 11:16.29 | no_gravity | ratrace: I did. No change. |
| 11:16.34 | no_gravity | This might be a quicker test: printf "\x1b[38;2;255;100;0mTRUECOLOR\x1b[0m\n" |
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| 11:17.17 | ratrace | no_gravity: maybe I typo'd. truecolors on (plural) |
| 11:17.30 | no_gravity | ratrace: Yeah, I tried both :) |
| 11:17.42 | ratrace | I don't know then, sorry. |
| 11:17.46 | no_gravity | ratrace: Does this work for you in screen? printf "\x1b[38;2;255;100;0mTRUECOLOR\x1b[0m\n" |
| 11:17.52 | ratrace | I don't use screen, only tmux |
| 11:18.08 | ratrace | (used to use it before, just not any morE) |
| 11:18.12 | no_gravity | I see. |
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| 11:21.06 | ratrace | no_gravity: some sources online suggest truecolor support is in version 5+ . |
| 11:21.09 | ratrace | ,v screen |
| 11:21.10 | judd | Package: screen on amd64 -- jessie: 4.2.1-3+deb8u1; jessie-security: 4.2.1-3+deb8u1; stretch: 4.5.0-6; buster: 4.6.2-3; bullseye: 4.8.0-2; sid: 4.8.0-2 |
| 11:21.57 | no_gravity | ratrace: Someone in #linux says it works for them with the same screen version as mine. |
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| 11:23.38 | ratrace | no_gravity: which terminal? |
| 11:24.42 | no_gravity | ratrace: His or mine? |
| 11:24.49 | no_gravity | ratrace: I'm in mate-terminal. |
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| 11:28.42 | ratrace | no_gravity: is "truecolor" option mentioned in the screen(1) manpage? |
| 11:28.58 | no_gravity | ratrace: Yes |
| 11:29.10 | ratrace | then it has the patches.... sorry, really out of ideas now. |
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| 11:29.16 | no_gravity | \o/ |
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| 11:59.45 | SPARC-Corgi | Anybody know if soft raid/ZFS works on the PPC port? |
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| 12:03.15 | jelly | md raid ought to work on any linux. ZFS, who knows |
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| 12:06.25 | SPARC-Corgi | Meh ppc port is kinda glitchy don't think it would matter much anyways. Probably just gonna try a raid card if I can find one |
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| 12:09.44 | ratrace | ewww hw raid |
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| 12:33.33 | SPARC-Corgi | Wasn't going to use it as hardware raid, just as a way to use modern disks and make building a soft raid worthwhile |
| 12:39.10 | SPARC-Corgi | Lemme tell ya ATA-66 is pretty awful. |
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| 12:41.47 | oiaohm | SPARC-Corgi: ATA-66 was in fact a upgrade over the ATA-33 |
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| 13:15.04 | budlight | ATA-133 was upgrade from ATA-66 |
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| 13:22.34 | main1 | hi |
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| 13:32.22 | blurkis | Would it be wrong to ask a question regarding debian testing here? Or is there a better channel? |
| 13:33.00 | cluonbeam | !testing |
| 13:33.00 | dpkg | Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <bullseye>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and ask me about <testing faq> <buster->bullseye> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical! |
| 13:33.24 | dvs | blurkis, #debian-next on OFTC |
| 13:34.38 | blurkis | dvs: thanks. (But I solved it, for some reason kde started a mysql instance as $user and installing mariadb would not install without me personally killing that instance. |
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| 13:50.12 | n4dir | I got a [AMD/ATI] RS482/RS485 [Radeon Xpress 1100/1150] |
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| 13:50.39 | n4dir | the driver in use is radeon. I read through the wiki page, but can't figure out which driver i need. |
| 13:50.55 | n4dir | I installed what is mentioned there but without sucess |
| 13:51.37 | n4dir | error messages i get are : Compile Error; ../src/gallium/drivers/r300/compiler/r300_fragprog_emit.c::emit_alu(): |
| 13:51.58 | n4dir | Too many ALU instructions. Using a dummy shader instead |
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| 13:58.23 | n4dir | though the output of lspci also also has: 01:05.1 Display controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RS480 [Radeon Xpress 1150] (Secondary) |
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| 13:59.20 | Junicchi | linuxlogo shows i have 128TB ram |
| 14:00.08 | farfaralong | hello |
| 14:00.11 | dvs | O_O |
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| 14:03.32 | Ooze | Uhh I just deleted my fstab by mistake. Can I regenerate it? |
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| 14:04.01 | cluonbeam | Ooze: You could enter 'mount' to see what's currently mounted and rebuild it from that. |
| 14:04.15 | cluonbeam | Ooze: Don't create an fstab line for EVERYTHING listed. Only actual filesystems and swap |
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| 14:05.56 | ElDiabolo | I have 2 desktop systems where I just did an upgrade. On one of the thunderbird is on 68.12.0-1~deb10u1, on the other it is 68.10.0-1~deb10u1. Both are amd64. How can I find the cause. |
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| 14:09.07 | Ooze | Got it, thanks cluonbeam |
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| 14:12.03 | oxek | cluelessperson: isn't 'mount' for listing mounts deprecated? 'findmnt' is the modern tool. |
| 14:12.44 | oxek | from the manpage of mount "The listing mode is maintained for backward compatibility only" |
| 14:13.06 | RoyK | oxek: cat /proc/mounts ;) |
| 14:14.05 | RoyK | oxek: I wonder why they didn't name that lsmnt or something to match the lsxxxxx command naming |
| 14:14.31 | oxek | true, apt-file search says there's no lsmnt yet |
| 14:15.08 | RoyK | IMHO findmnt (which I didn't know) looks like a very good lsmnt candidate without the find- prefix |
| 14:15.13 | oxek | talking of ls tools, I really like lstopo from the hwloc package |
| 14:16.01 | RoyK | that was neat :) |
| 14:17.01 | oxek | there should be a list of neat linux utilities |
| 14:17.17 | oxek | (and a list of what is to be used when, and what is deprecated) |
| 14:17.29 | oxek | haven't seen a source dedicated to just that yet |
| 14:22.56 | ElDiabolo | Ah, found it. security.debian.org sources where missing on one system. |
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| 14:28.06 | ElDiabolo | oxek, There are too many. Generally if you wish there was such a tool in 80% of the cases there is such a tool. |
| 14:29.09 | oxek | unfortunately I always land in the 20% of cases |
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| 14:29.40 | oxek | then I try to create such a tool, but get horrified about how complex the issue is and give up |
| 14:29.49 | oxek | (and thus understand why the tool does not exist yet) |
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| 14:32.26 | oxek | ElDiabolo: you might want to check your other repos in sources.list, might be missing buster-updates too |
| 14:33.32 | oxek | imo this is how debian sources.list should look like by default https://0x0.st/i62j.txt |
| 14:33.49 | ElDiabolo | oxek, I just checked my online system, this has security updates :-). |
| 14:33.53 | shtrb | Does anyone have a clue where kdeconnect store it's sms db (even if it store locally) ? tried "find . -name *kdeconnect* -print | grep -vvv hexchat | xargs" which gave me ./.cache/kdeconnect.app ./.cache/kdeconnect.sms ./.config/kde.org/kdeconnect.app.conf ./.config/kdeconnect ./.config/kdeconnect/MACID/kdeconnect_pausemusic ./.config/kdeconnect/MACID kdeconnect_runcommand ./.config/kdeconnect/MACID/kdeconnect_sendnotifications ./.local/share/kpeoplevcar |
| 14:33.53 | shtrb | d/kdeconnect-MACID but none of these location seem to store anything that I could identify as some kind of a db. |
| 14:34.18 | oxek | ElDiabolo: security updates != buster-updates |
| 14:34.22 | oxek | those are two different repos |
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| 14:36.07 | somiaj | buster-updates is more optional than security-updates though, it just gives you access to some packages before they are merged in a point release. |
| 14:36.56 | oxek | 'optional' but if you don't have buster-updates, then you're on old ca-certificates and thus have lots of web breakage due to that major root CA expiration |
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| 15:00.51 | chrisw | Just upgraded a machine to buster, and it seems to now be requesting (and getting) a new ip address via dhcp every few seconds. Any ideas what might have happened and how I could fix this? |
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| 15:10.26 | somiaj | chrisw: what do you use to configure your network? |
| 15:11.11 | chrisw | @somiaj: not sure I understand the question, the dhcp server is a UDMP Pro with a static ip assigned for this device, which was working fine up until the buster upgrade |
| 15:11.22 | chrisw | UDM Pro, even |
| 15:12.00 | chrisw | also just noticed the root fs has come up read only, which isn't ideal... wonder why that might be? |
| 15:12.37 | somiaj | debian provides multiple tools, the interfaces file, network-manager, wicd, and other ways to configure the network. Which one are you using? |
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| 15:13.13 | somiaj | hmm, it could be the read only part of the file system causing the issue since dhcp can't write its lease file. I would track down why that is happening. Did it fail an fsck? |
| 15:13.20 | chrisw | @somiaj - no idea, I'm afraid, had this machine for years, have always just let upgrades do their thing, how would I check? |
| 15:13.22 | somiaj | might want to reboot into a live system and fsck the file system. |
| 15:13.42 | chrisw | dmesg now showing anything obvious for the fs, where else should I be looking? |
| 15:13.46 | chrisw | now -> not |
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| 15:27.56 | chrisw | @somiaj - well, this sounds a lot like the dhcp problem: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=932769 |
| 15:27.57 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/932769 in isc-dhcp-client (open): «general: DHCP request bug when storage lost»; severity: important; opened: 2019-07-22; last modified: 2019-07-31. |
| 15:30.27 | ggherdov | Hello, a few questions on the linux kernel package. (1) Debian Buster (stable) has version 4.19.132-1 from https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/linux . |
| 15:30.28 | ggherdov | Does that mean it's from the upstream stable kernel 4.19.132? ie https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/?h=v4.19.132 |
| 15:30.28 | ggherdov | Question (2): the tracker at https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/linux says that Buster backports has kernel 5.7.10-1~bpo10+1 , but from this other page it seems more like 5.4: https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/kernel/linux-image-5.4.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 |
| 15:30.28 | ggherdov | So is Buster backports on kernel 5.4 or 5.7? |
| 15:31.55 | oxek | ggherdov: uname -a will tell you the actual version |
| 15:31.59 | oxek | backports is 5.7 |
| 15:32.05 | shtrb | ggherdov, yes the value after - is debian package version |
| 15:32.09 | oxek | because backports repo does not get purged of outdated versions |
| 15:32.24 | oxek | the way to get backports kernel is apt -t buster-backports install linux-image-amd64 |
| 15:32.31 | oxek | that will pull in the corrected backported kernel |
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| 15:32.33 | shtrb | ,v kernel |
| 15:32.34 | judd | No package named 'kernel' was found in amd64. |
| 15:32.36 | oxek | (if you are on amd64) |
| 15:32.37 | shtrb | ,v linux-image |
| 15:32.38 | judd | No package named 'linux-image' was found in amd64. |
| 15:32.41 | shtrb | ,v linux |
| 15:32.42 | judd | No package named 'linux' was found in amd64. |
| 15:32.45 | shtrb | facepalm |
| 15:32.50 | oxek | ,v linux-image-amd64 |
| 15:32.51 | judd | Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u7; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u5; buster-backports: 5.7.10-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.7.17-1; sid: 5.7.17-1; experimental: 5.8.3-1~exp1 |
| 15:33.03 | shtrb | thanks oxek , ggherdov ^ |
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| 15:38.37 | ggherdov | ok thanks, stable backports has 5.7 then (I don't have a live system to check). |
| 15:38.37 | ggherdov | Regarding the upstream kernel version corresponding to the deb package: https://packages.debian.org/buster/kernel/linux-image-4.19.0-10-amd64 |
| 15:38.37 | ggherdov | Would it be the upstream kernel tag v4.19 or the tag v4.19.132? |
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| 15:39.03 | oxek | 4.19.132-1 |
| 15:40.40 | ggherdov | oxek: thanks, but in upstream tags are X.Y.Z, you wouldn't find the "-1" part. That's odd |
| 15:40.52 | oxek | ggherdov: that's debian notation |
| 15:40.53 | Miles8of9 | https://packages.debian.org/buster/linux-image-amd64 |
| 15:41.06 | Miles8of9 | 4.19+105+deb10u5 |
| 15:41.50 | oxek | linux-image-amd64 depends on linux-image-4.19.0-10-amd64, and if you do 'apt show linux-image-4.19.0-10-amd64' it will tell you it is 4.19.132 |
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| 15:42.55 | ggherdov | ok, I guess I need to learn a bit more about how the kernel is packaged |
| 15:43.20 | oxek | ggherdov: what more do you need to know? |
| 15:45.26 | Miles8of9 | you need a signed kernel package or the system won't boot... and you can't sign the kernel yourself.. |
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| 15:48.37 | oxek | you only need a signed kernel if you have enabled secureboot on a UEFI system, and you can sign kernels yourself and put your key into the UEFI |
| 15:48.50 | oxek | on a bios system, all of that is irrelevant |
| 15:49.03 | oxek | and a system with disabled secureboot, all of it is irrelevant too |
| 15:52.07 | oxek | tbf secureboot is pointless unless you delete the OEM keys and use your own keys |
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| 16:04.40 | gordonfish | really hates devices with secureboot that can't be (easily) disabled/managed. |
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| 16:17.07 | shtrb | waits for someone to mention coreboot and using QubeOS on metal and debian bellow. |
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| 16:18.44 | ratrace | *atop |
| 16:19.43 | shtrb | I stand corrected |
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| 16:22.43 | chrisw | hmm, systemctl restart networking, why would that make the interface vanish from ifconfig? |
| 16:23.07 | oxek | ifconfig? |
| 16:23.26 | chrisw | @oxek - sorry, I don't understand |
| 16:23.30 | ratrace | ifconfig is deprecated. but a NIC could vanish if it were a virtual one and got downed/reset |
| 16:23.46 | chrisw | okay, so what should I use instead of ifconfig to show a list of interfaces on a host/ |
| 16:23.48 | oxek | random stuff can happen to ifconfig since it has not been updated in 13 years |
| 16:23.51 | ratrace | restarting networking.service does ifdown + ifup |
| 16:24.01 | oxek | chrisw: 'ip' |
| 16:24.07 | ratrace | chrisw: ip from `iproute2` |
| 16:24.17 | oxek | or even better 'ip -color a' |
| 16:24.19 | shtrb | net-tools , and restarting may or may not bring all previous interfaces (only if they are declared in networkd/interfaces) |
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| 16:26.04 | chrisw | @oxek - cool, thanks, ifconfig has always "just worked", so use it, will try and re-train to `ip a` now :-)_ |
| 16:26.45 | shtrb | Is using virt-manager to manage a dozen or so vms on a laptop is a waste of time and I should be using ovirt instead or it's not waste of time /resources ? |
| 16:26.47 | chrisw | hurrah! A real shell, not the crap HP's iLO offers... |
| 16:27.43 | ratrace | shtrb: it's just a frontend to libvirt and qemu. if it works for you and satisfies your needs, no need to use anything else. |
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| 16:28.10 | ratrace | personally I prefer using qemu-system on the command line, but that's just my preference. at the end of the day, it's the same qemu in the background |
| 16:28.13 | oxek | didn't redhat deprecate virt-manager? |
| 16:28.21 | shtrb | I'm using it because it just works, and I'm use to it. but maybe I should be using ovirt (or something else) |
| 16:28.24 | ratrace | oxek: in favor of what? |
| 16:28.32 | oxek | ratrace: some web interface they made |
| 16:28.38 | ratrace | cockpit? |
| 16:28.41 | oxek | yeah |
| 16:28.57 | ratrace | probably not. |
| 16:29.11 | ratrace | cockpit is not a replacement for anything |
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| 16:29.24 | oxek | https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/managing-virtual-machines-rhel-8-web-console |
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| 16:29.49 | oxek | "and the announcement that virt-manager has been deprecated" |
| 16:30.04 | ratrace | cockpit is RH's central server management UI, their answer to Canonical's Landscape. |
| 16:30.22 | ratrace | it's basically a "control panel" for various things, and as such not a replacement for other tools that do the same. |
| 16:30.45 | oxek | well, redhat is gonna use the web console instead of virt-manager now |
| 16:30.56 | ratrace | well if virt-manager is deprecated upstream, and not just in RH, that'd be news to me |
| 16:31.06 | ratrace | *RHEL |
| 16:31.10 | oxek | virt-manager is made by redhat, no? |
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| 16:31.36 | shtrb | back to qemu-system that is :) |
| 16:32.26 | ratrace | oxek: it's their project originally, yes |
| 16:33.07 | oxek | so if they no longer care about it, or provide funding to the devs, it's essentially dead, no? |
| 16:33.17 | ratrace | virt-manager is the defacto linux-native response to virtualbox. cockpit is RHEL specific control panel. if RH abandons it and other distros/contributors don't pick up.... well... |
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| 16:34.24 | ratrace | there'a also GNOME Boxes btw, so gnome distros won't suffer. and nobody cares about KDE =) *runs* |
| 16:34.42 | oxek | no need to run, it really looks like nobody cares about KDE |
| 16:35.04 | shtrb | ratrace seem to forget about the closing of qt anouncment :D |
| 16:35.22 | shtrb | rip qt long ling kt (if that will happen) |
| 16:35.33 | shtrb | *long live kt |
| 16:35.49 | ratrace | shtrb: what announcement? apparently I missed something |
| 16:36.16 | JyZyXEL | Qt just lost the maintainer on debian i think it was |
| 16:36.30 | ratrace | that I heard, but that doesn't affect QT in general |
| 16:36.33 | shtrb | ratrace, https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Might-Restrict-New-Releases |
| 16:37.14 | shtrb | and https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=More-Interest-Possible-Qt-Fork |
| 16:37.36 | chrisw | okay, so why would `systemctl restart networking` result in my interface being DOWN in `ip a` output? |
| 16:37.42 | ratrace | oh yes, that.... indeed I forgot about it |
| 16:38.07 | JyZyXEL | "to boost their near-term finances" at the expense of their future it sounds like :P |
| 16:38.16 | ratrace | chrisw: because restarting networking.service does ifdown+ifup. if your NIC is not configured in e/n/i or errors out, that will happen |
| 16:38.46 | chrisw | @ratrace: "your NIC is not configured in e/n/i ", what does that mean? |
| 16:38.52 | chrisw | manual ifup gets it happy again |
| 16:39.08 | shtrb | chrisw, does not have "auto" in /etc/network/interfaces (or something like that) |
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| 16:39.39 | ratrace | chrisw: networking.service controls ifupdown framework which is configured by "e/n/i" which is usual abbrev for /etc/network/interfaces |
| 16:39.41 | shtrb | Many interfaces might be upped by some other tool (like openvpn , virtual machine's ips , sslvpn etc) |
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| 16:41.39 | chrisw | @shtrb - nothing magic here, simple two physical nics, which are still showing as eth0 and eth1, even after the stretch to buster upgrade |
| 16:42.02 | chrisw | (which seems to have gone badly wrong somewhere - the system boots up with a read-only root partition, and I'm still trying to find out why...) |
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| 16:42.53 | chrisw | the read only root file system seems to cause the dhcp client to repeatedly renew its leases, which ends up configurin the UDM pro that's that dhcp server |
| 16:43.23 | ratrace | chrisw: if your rootfs mounts RO, there could be a filesystem corruption issue |
| 16:43.24 | chrisw | I can remount the fs rw just fine, which is also confusing... where/how do I configure the kernel boot command line? |
| 16:43.32 | ratrace | assuming of course it isn't misconfigured |
| 16:43.47 | chrisw | ratrace: don't think so, I suspect a misconfigure from upgrading stretch to buster |
| 16:43.49 | ratrace | chrisw: ah maybe you're missing a fstab entry for / |
| 16:43.53 | shtrb | In order to still have ethX you should have disabled predictable interfaces ( via kernel argument ) , if you have network fs that fail to load you might get into RO case |
| 16:44.14 | chrisw | @ratrace - I don't think so there either, everything is there and fine, just mounted ro |
| 16:44.31 | shtrb | *or via udev rules |
| 16:44.41 | ratrace | chrisw: then comb the logs, I'm sure there's a reason filed there somewhere |
| 16:45.35 | chrisw | @shtrb - I followed the stuff in https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#migrate-interface-names - `echo /sys/class/net/[ew]*` still said eth0 |
| 16:45.57 | chrisw | @ratrace - ideas greatfully received, dmesg and /var/log/message both not showing anything obvious |
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| 16:46.39 | shtrb | chrisw, check your udev rule /etc/udev/rules/*persistent*.rules or cmdline |
| 16:46.43 | chrisw | @shtrb - but, to be clear, no network fs on this host, and eth0 works just fine once I can get the root fs mounted rw |
| 16:46.49 | oxek | I'm surprised redhat has not renamed cockpit yet, it's 2020 |
| 16:47.36 | shtrb | oxek, what's wrong with cockpit ? |
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| 16:47.59 | chrisw | @shtrb - right, that answers that: udev has defs for eth0 and eth1 :-) |
| 16:48.13 | shtrb | chrisw, you can disable it (if you wish ) |
| 16:48.20 | somiaj | chrisw: stil sounds like you need to boot into a live system and fsck your file system first |
| 16:48.49 | ratrace | chrisw: in some cases rootfs is mounted RO by initramfs, I don't remember if it's default or not (I have custom config, so can't check for default), and then one needs a fstab entry to remount rw. if you have that entry, then there must've been an error somehwere which must've been logged |
| 16:49.02 | shtrb | chrisw, and you might have done some systemd magic that might had broken your boot process. |
| 16:49.23 | oxek | shtrb: the name might be offensive to someone |
| 16:49.37 | ratrace | oh it's default in Debian. "ro" is in grub kernel command line options |
| 16:49.55 | somiaj | though sounds like others are trying to se if there is anything in the logs |
| 16:49.59 | chrisw | oxek - it shouldn't be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockpit#Etymology |
| 16:50.00 | shtrb | was too shelterd techperson who didn't get that part in the name. |
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| 16:50.31 | shtrb | chrisw, they are tearing down darwin museum , nothing is sacred anymore |
| 16:50.41 | shtrb | darwin the person, not the OS |
| 16:50.42 | ratrace | shtrb: ? |
| 16:50.49 | chrisw | @shtrb - link? |
| 16:50.49 | oxek | chrisw: most things should be offensive, but some people will still take offense |
| 16:50.59 | somiaj | ratrace: I don't see ro in the default kernel options, or should I look elsewhere than /etc/default/grub |
| 16:51.05 | oxek | I mean most things should not be considered offensive |
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| 16:51.15 | chrisw | @ratrace - okay, so I wonder what changed as part of the stretch to buster upgrade? I did notice some stuff in the console relating to a volume group not being found, but it's still there, just mounted readonly |
| 16:51.48 | ratrace | somiaj: it's in final generated grub.cfg |
| 16:52.16 | chrisw | what's weird is if I run update-grub, I get `/usr/sbin/grub-mkconfig: 253: /usr/sbin/grub-mkconfig: cannot create /boot/grub/grub.cfg.new: Directory nonexistent`, but I boot through a grub menu, so where's that coming from? |
| 16:52.26 | somiaj | oh there it is, yea that is where I found it, so must be something that should be remounting it int he boot process |
| 16:52.46 | shtrb | ratrace, I was wrong , it's was less crazy - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8702867/Natural-History-museum-review-Charles-Darwin-exhibitions-HMS-Beagle-colonialist.html |
| 16:53.16 | ratrace | somiaj: the fstab. I remember missing that entry and the system would boot with RO fs because it never remounts RW |
| 16:53.19 | shtrb | oxek, let us take that to #d-o ? |
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| 16:55.55 | oxek | I never know what's offtopic in here. Debian is a political distribution, so these things matter to debian. |
| 16:56.18 | shtrb | not to spam about it :) |
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| 16:57.17 | chrisw | @somiaj / @shtrb - so, still curious how I can discover where my grub entries are coming from |
| 16:57.23 | somiaj | ratrace: so if you didn't have / in fstab it stays mounted readonly? |
| 16:57.46 | ratrace | somiaj: iirc yes |
| 16:57.49 | chrisw | looking at the start of dmesg, I see [ 0.000000] Command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-4.19.0-10-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/zuul--vg-root ro quiet - where is that coming from? |
| 16:57.50 | shtrb | chrisw, generated via os-probe and grub-update |
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| 16:58.30 | ratrace | somiaj: I ran into that few years ago and remembered to always mention root in fstab (for filesystems that use fstab), but things may've changed since, in newer initramfs-tools |
| 16:59.39 | somiaj | might be if you don't have an fstab entry you need a .mount unit file (Since those are basically equivlant). I have never not had rootfs in fstab, so explains why I havn't ran across such a thing |
| 16:59.55 | chrisw | @shtrb - right, but like I said above, grub-update can't even find the directory it wants to write to... |
| 17:00.27 | somiaj | chrisw: output of ls /boot please (use a patebin) |
| 17:00.43 | ratrace | somiaj: I install debian with debootstrap, and it was in the early testing periods where I ran into that |
| 17:00.54 | MTecknology | I know creating a symlink in this way is the "wrong way", but I also don't understand how libraries work well enough to know how to solve this issue properly- https://dpaste.com/AP5LBNY8U. "steamui.so" requires libGL.so.1 (i386). I have that installed, but it's in a slightly different location because glx-diversions said to stick that file in the alternate location. If I symlink from |
| 17:01.00 | MTecknology | original_path to diverted_path, the library is found. |
| 17:01.02 | shtrb | chrisw, I'm not sure about your setup but : 1. you can info at the UEFI, 2. you may have info already written in /boot |
| 17:01.02 | chrisw | @somiaj : `initrd.img-4.19.0-10-amd64` is all that's in there |
| 17:01.02 | ratrace | and yea, either fstab or a proper .mount (as fstab gets converted to .mount units anyway) |
| 17:01.27 | shtrb | is your /boot also on lvm ? |
| 17:01.30 | chrisw | @shtrb - I'm afraid I don't know what `you can info at the UEFI` means |
| 17:01.32 | ratrace | MTecknology: are you not installing steam from regular debian package? |
| 17:01.32 | somiaj | chrisw: did /boot use to be a seperate partition? |
| 17:01.49 | chrisw | @shtrb - yes, I think /boot is on lvm |
| 17:02.03 | shtrb | chrisw, typo , part of your boot infromation is stored at the UEFI (efivars ?) . |
| 17:02.13 | somiaj | chrisw: and somehow after the reboot /boot isn't being mounted correctly, because you should have more than the init image in there |
| 17:02.22 | chrisw | Not really sure why I'm on lvm, other than that some ancient debian upgrade probably told me I needed to do it |
| 17:02.23 | shtrb | chrisw, I don't know how /boot on lvm can normally boot into a working envoirment |
| 17:02.28 | MTecknology | ratrace: I installed it from the .deb they provided. The reason for the location of that steamui.so file is that /usr/bin/steam unpacks a bunch of stuff in the home directory and executes from there. |
| 17:02.38 | ratrace | MTecknology: "they"? |
| 17:02.48 | MTecknology | steam? valve? |
| 17:03.04 | ratrace | MTecknology: steam is a regular package on debian. use that. it's just a launcher anyway, and it installs latest from valve |
| 17:03.07 | ratrace | ,v steam |
| 17:03.09 | judd | No package named 'steam' was found in amd64. |
| 17:03.18 | chrisw | @somiaj - indeed, something has gone very screwy as a result of the stretch / buster upgrade - that said, this machine has been upgraded for probably a decade at least |
| 17:03.23 | ratrace | ,v steam:i386 |
| 17:03.24 | judd | No package named 'steam:i386' was found in amd64. |
| 17:03.31 | ratrace | oh how do you operate this thing.... |
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| 17:04.18 | ratrace | ,v steam --arch i386 |
| 17:04.19 | judd | Package: steam on i386 -- jessie/non-free: 1.0.0.49-1; stretch/non-free: 1.0.0.54-2; buster/non-free: 1.0.0.59-4; bullseye/non-free: 1.0.0.64-1; sid/non-free: 1.0.0.64-1; experimental/non-free: 1.0.0.66-1 |
| 17:04.50 | chrisw | @somiaj - wait, sorry, I think I'm mistake about /boot being lvm |
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| 17:05.23 | MTecknology | ah, interesting. I didn't have i386 arch available at first. I'll fix that now. |
| 17:05.37 | chrisw | pastebin? |
| 17:05.39 | shtrb | you need to have i386 for steam ? |
| 17:05.44 | shtrb | chrisw paste.debian.net |
| 17:05.50 | ratrace | shtrb: yes, steam is currently 32-bit only on linux |
| 17:06.08 | chrisw | @shtrb - that doesn't resolve for me, I'm afraid |
| 17:07.23 | shtrb | chrisw, https://paste.debian.net ? |
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| 17:07.48 | chrisw | @shtrb - DNS isn't resolving that address for me |
| 17:08.11 | shtrb | oh , wow , it's really down . |
| 17:09.32 | chrisw | @shtrb - it may or may not be, but the dns entry for it is gone |
| 17:09.34 | MTecknology | chrisw: fyi- in irc land, we follow $nick: $message. Highlights don't always work for twitter-style mentions and if you follow the convention, you can use tab-complete for it. such as mt<tab> |
| 17:10.38 | chrisw | $MTecknology - I'm using Textual on a mac, $-prefix doesn't complete for me, @-prefix does |
| 17:11.00 | shtrb | mac ?!?!?!! |
| 17:11.00 | chrisw | prefixless appears to work too ;-) |
| 17:11.19 | MTecknology | no prefix.. just m, t, <tab> |
| 17:11.22 | chrisw | @shtrb - desktop / laptop, servers are debian for personal, RHEL for my employer |
| 17:11.39 | shtrb | :-( |
| 17:11.57 | chrisw | *shrug* everything bar the macs are systemd now ;-) |
| 17:12.10 | chrisw | okay, anyway, other preferred pastebin? |
| 17:12.20 | shtrb | pastebin.com ? |
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| 17:12.35 | MTecknology | You can still run debian without systemd. |
| 17:12.46 | chrisw | @somiaj - want to ping you fstab and lvmdiskscan |
| 17:13.08 | MTecknology | groans |
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| 17:14.01 | chrisw | @somiaj / @shtrb : https://pastebin.com/iJZ1GKHF |
| 17:14.03 | ratrace | no pastebin.com pls! there's dpaste, bpaste, termbin |
| 17:14.24 | chrisw | ratrace - just doing as shtrb suggested |
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| 17:15.02 | ratrace | right, right. |
| 17:15.10 | chrisw | anyway, bit dismayed to see /boot is ext2 - is that normal?! |
| 17:15.20 | shtrb | ratrace, p.d.n is down :-( |
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| 17:16.05 | ratrace | many orbits ago, people would put /boot on ext2 to... I don't know... save a few cycles of performance once per boot by not haivng a journal there |
| 17:16.10 | chrisw | @shtrb - sorry to be pedantic, but in case anyone is able to fix that, it's missing a dns entry, whether the service is up or down we can't currently tell... |
| 17:16.43 | chrisw | ratrace - plausible then, okay, so how come if I ls /boot, there's just the one kernel image there? |
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| 17:16.53 | chrisw | I definitely see a grub menu with a bunch of entries on it... |
| 17:17.15 | MTecknology | I still put /boot on ext2. I was told journaling is counter-productive for boot things. |
| 17:17.38 | ratrace | MTecknology: you were told wrong |
| 17:18.26 | somiaj | chrisw: almost sounds like your fstab was corrupted during the upgrade, since both / and /boot aren't there, might just need to remount everything properly and fix the fstab file |
| 17:18.28 | shtrb | ratrace, the non ext/fat32 /boot UEFI support is a recent thing |
| 17:18.31 | chrisw | https://bpa.st/5QMA |
| 17:19.38 | chrisw | somiaj - fstab looks fine (well, to me, am I missing something?): https://bpa.st/G36A |
| 17:19.48 | ratrace | shtrb: well if one wants to use ext2 for /boot, that's fine I suppose. the journaling and full features of ext4 don't in any way counter the productivity of /boot |
| 17:20.14 | ratrace | boils down to preference, and not a technical advantage |
| 17:20.49 | MTecknology | ratrace: It turned out to be very easy to get steam:i386 installed, but because I'm running frankian, the nvidia-driver-libs-i386:i386 package it said I should install is proving quite painful. :/ |
| 17:21.14 | MTecknology | The joys of bleeding edge hardware... I have no external monitor support without the nvidia driver from experimental. |
| 17:21.17 | ratrace | wellp... had to be a reason we warn against frankendebians :) |
| 17:21.55 | shtrb | It's a great time to drop all pins , and move to the safety of testing :D |
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| 17:22.29 | ratrace | just slap a big warning sign of "No security updates!" on the entrance :) |
| 17:22.51 | shtrb | ratrace, testing will get the updates via sid |
| 17:22.52 | ratrace | *at the entrance |
| 17:23.04 | ratrace | shtrb: eventually, yes. |
| 17:23.09 | MTecknology | dag nabbit... It looks like there's no 450 version of nvidia-driver-libs-i386:i386. :'( |
| 17:23.11 | shtrb | A week more or so |
| 17:23.41 | ratrace | ,v nvidia-driver |
| 17:23.42 | judd | Package: nvidia-driver on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.152.00-1; buster-backports/non-free: 440.100-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 450.66-1; sid/non-free: 450.66-1 |
| 17:24.05 | MTecknology | ,v nvidia-driver-libs-i386 |
| 17:24.06 | ratrace | ohlol wait, I no longer use nvidia, I gave the GPU to the gaming windows VM =) |
| 17:24.06 | judd | No package named 'nvidia-driver-libs-i386' was found in amd64. |
| 17:24.28 | MTecknology | ,v nvidia-driver-libs-i386 --arch i386 |
| 17:24.29 | judd | Package: nvidia-driver-libs-i386 on i386 -- stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.152.00-1; buster-backports/non-free: 440.100-1~bpo10+1 |
| 17:24.45 | ratrace | yeah buster backports is all about 440.100 |
| 17:25.20 | MTecknology | I guess the solution is to say screw the external monitor and drop back to 440. External monitor support is still pretty janky anyway. |
| 17:25.33 | chrisw | somiaj: So, during startup, I see `Volume group "zuul-vg" not found`, but nothing in dmesg - where might that be coming from? Interesting to see that `/dev/mapper/zuul--vg-root` ends up being mounted, is that double dash significant? |
| 17:26.04 | chrisw | and still, the mystery of where the grub menu that I see during boot is actually coming from?! |
| 17:26.43 | somiaj | well if it can't find your volume group, it won't find the volumes to mount, that coudl be the cause of the issue |
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| 17:27.12 | chrisw | somiaj - okay, but what is it that ends up being mounted then? where does volume group config live? |
| 17:27.14 | RhinoCodes | convice me to use Debian |
| 17:27.30 | somiaj | it could be, names have to match exactly, my lvm knowledge is really limited as I don't use it on my personal systems, and it has just worked on the few servers I have |
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| 17:27.41 | chrisw | RhinoCodes - what is important to you in picking an operating system? |
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| 17:28.14 | somiaj | https://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian -- oh they left so fas |
| 17:28.17 | chrisw | anyone else where know where lvm config lives and what might have gone wrong in the upgrade from stretch to buster? |
| 17:28.19 | shtrb | that was fast |
| 17:28.26 | somiaj | well probably best they go elsewhere if they don't want to stick around and learn. |
| 17:28.33 | chrisw | +1 |
| 17:29.06 | shtrb | The best thing , systemd-homed hopefully will not be enabled in debian |
| 17:29.35 | MTecknology | ,v libnvia-glcore |
| 17:29.36 | judd | No package named 'libnvia-glcore' was found in amd64. |
| 17:29.44 | MTecknology | ,v libnvidia-glcore |
| 17:29.45 | judd | Package: libnvidia-glcore on amd64 -- stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.152.00-1; buster-backports/non-free: 440.100-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 450.66-1; sid/non-free: 450.66-1 |
| 17:29.59 | shtrb | hides in the corner until people would read about systemd-homed |
| 17:30.00 | somiaj | shtrb: who knows, but it will most likely be made optional if it is. |
| 17:30.21 | somiaj | hard to say what the future brings as stuff developes, gets more widely used, or introduces new features users want |
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| 17:31.01 | shtrb | somiaj, I doubt anyone would ask users (the same as it was systemd as a whole ), it would be the Debian community who would decide on that subject |
| 17:32.11 | MTecknology | I'm in aptitude and pressed a key... but I don't know which key. The package is now showing as yellow and "iw". I know the i means install. Does anyone happen to know what the w means? |
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| 17:34.33 | somiaj | shtrb: the debian community includes its users |
| 17:34.44 | MTecknology | (not an easy topic to search...) |
| 17:35.26 | shtrb | somiaj, I think most users can't vote (who are not DM / DDs) |
| 17:35.28 | somiaj | MTecknology: from dpkg, Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend -- it appears @ is triger-awaiting |
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| 17:35.55 | somiaj | shtrb: in the end yes, doesn't mean users aren't listen to, and with bug reports and stuff, users do give input |
| 17:36.08 | somiaj | MTecknology: @=w |
| 17:36.33 | somiaj | MTecknology: I am unfamilar with that status, so can't say more about it, maybe man dpkg has info |
| 17:37.44 | MTecknology | interesting; can you enlighten me to where you found @=w? |
| 17:37.58 | MTecknology | and @=trigger-awaiting? |
| 17:38.19 | somiaj | MTecknology: @ was my typo, I found that Status= line at the top of dpkg -l | haed |
| 17:38.23 | somiaj | dpkg -l | head |
| 17:38.23 | dpkg | ii | head 2.9-1.2 somiaj's private warez collection |
| 17:39.00 | somiaj | I just know that always lists the possible status a package can be in, seems this is related to dpkg-trigger, and that package is installed but waiting some triger to finish configuring |
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| 17:39.16 | somiaj | I haven't seen a package in such a state, so overall I'm unsure what it means. |
| 17:39.38 | MTecknology | Thanks! |
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| 17:39.55 | MTecknology | I assumed I did something wrong when I bumped the key, but I guess it's just normal. :) |
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| 17:40.30 | somiaj | I don't use aptitudes curses enviroment, so unsure about what the keys do there |
| 17:44.44 | MTecknology | The curses interface is super duper fantastic for working out dependency issues. It's a bit confusing at first, but you can select/view one package, then use + to select a specific version, if it shows red, then there's a dependency that needs to be resolved. You can let aptitude try to auto-resolve it or press enter on that version to see package info for that specific version and |
| 17:44.50 | MTecknology | it'll highlight in red the problems. Then you can expand those, choose to install, and if it's red, you can dig even deeper. |
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| 17:53.43 | chrisw | somiaj - well, progress... installed ntfs-3g, which meant I could get the last two mounts in the fstb I posted working, (I'd systemctl mask'ed them...) and now everything comes up rw |
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| 17:55.01 | chrisw | and now /boot looks a lot better too.. |
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| 17:58.51 | gribouille | hi |
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| 17:59.10 | gribouille | I have removed a package. however dpkg tell me that there are still config files for the package. how can I list them? |
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| 18:00.30 | MTecknology | The message that says ~"has files in directory, not removing" should tell you which path. |
| 18:01.36 | Ede|Popede | MTecknology: i used aptitude some years ago, but for dependencies there's also debtree. make it create a graph together with dot and you can even keep them for the next time. |
| 18:01.58 | gribouille | MTecknology, the package was removed a long time ago |
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| 18:03.37 | MTecknology | You could maybe re-install/re-remove and it should spit out that message again. Otherwise- I'm not sure that it's possible. |
| 18:04.57 | gribouille | MTecknology, you mean it know there are config files, but it doesnt know which ones? |
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| 18:05.38 | gribouille | MTecknology, if I purge the package, it wlil know what files to remove ; there should be a way to get the information |
| 18:06.47 | MTecknology | If you purge it, then it /should/ delete config directories despite custom files. |
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| 18:15.38 | gribouille | if I purge the package foo, dpkg will execute foo.postrm? |
| 18:16.31 | somiaj | correct |
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| 18:25.51 | b1ack0p | hi |
| 18:25.57 | b1ack0p | where can i download Debian 9 ? |
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| 18:29.08 | somiaj | Is it not on the offical mirrors, it should be. |
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| 18:29.23 | somiaj | b1ack0p: I assume you want the netinstall images? |
| 18:29.26 | AimHere | It is on the official mirrors |
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| 18:30.57 | b1ack0p | somiaj: yep |
| 18:31.04 | b1ack0p | i cant find anywhere |
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| 18:32.17 | b1ack0p | this? http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/ |
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| 18:33.32 | b1ack0p | no i cant find iso |
| 18:33.54 | n4dir | https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/9.13.0/amd64/iso-cd/ |
| 18:34.10 | n4dir | not saying "*that* is it, but to me it looks ok, b1ack0p |
| 18:34.54 | n4dir | does that help? |
| 18:35.15 | b1ack0p | https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/9.13.0/i386/iso-cd/ |
| 18:35.18 | b1ack0p | found i guess |
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| 18:35.54 | b1ack0p | i need 32bit thanks n4dir |
| 18:36.48 | n4dir | yeah, hence i asked if that helps, i had the other link handy. Anyway: good luck. |
| 18:41.39 | b1ack0p | n4dir: thanks |
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| 19:06.59 | oxek | this has not had an update in a year https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=794466 |
| 19:07.00 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/794466 in src:virtualbox (open, stretch, buster, bullseye, sid): «virtualbox: might not be suitable for stable releases due to lack of cooperation from upstream on security support for older releases»; severity: serious; opened: 2015-08-03; last modified: 2019-09-28. |
| 19:07.05 | oxek | anyone know if there's been any progress? |
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| 19:08.17 | n4dir | from what i hear it doesn't sound as if VBox would be back in debian anytime soon. |
| 19:08.33 | sney | if there was progress there would be a reply to the thread, most likely. |
| 19:08.54 | oxek | there's this https://people.debian.org/~lucas/virtualbox-buster/ but I might as well get vbox from upstream then |
| 19:09.14 | oxek | plus vbox keeps getting updated in sid |
| 19:09.28 | oxek | so it does not look completely dead in debian, just dead in stable/testing |
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| 19:10.22 | sney | message #215 in that thread covers it pretty succinctly. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=794466#215 |
| 19:11.08 | sney | if Oracle continues to refuse to provide security support for their own previous versions, then those same versions can't have security support in debian stable releases. therefore they wont be in stable or stable+1 |
| 19:11.48 | sney | sid is always unstable so it has some wiggle room. but it'll only ever be in sid. similar to the state of non-esr firefox. |
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| 19:16.18 | oxek | oracle provides support for 6.1 6.0 and 5.2, so there has been progress in that too |
| 19:18.26 | oxek | and... virtualbox installation from oracle repo failed... |
| 19:20.39 | oxek | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 19:20.41 | sney | oracle has a long history of gradually making life harder for free software projects. They did it with virtualbox, they did it with mysql, they did it with java, etc... |
| 19:20.57 | oxek | I know oracle is bad |
| 19:21.34 | sney | the people making those decisions for debian are probably just not very inclined to bend over backwards to package virtualbox. particularly when all of the libvirt/qemu/etc stuff is available without any oracle-isms. |
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| 19:23.05 | sney | nobody knows what the future holds. it could all clear up at some point. we got through the iceweasel thing, for instance. |
| 19:23.16 | sney | but stuff in contrib and non-free is never a priority. |
| 19:23.33 | oxek | virtualbox is still the only vm where I managed to setup shared folders |
| 19:23.46 | oxek | libvirt/etc required samba, and it broke stuff |
| 19:25.48 | sney | rip. send an angry email to oracle about it. debian's stability policy is clear. |
| 19:27.28 | oxek | I'll see if I can get vbox working first |
| 19:27.37 | oxek | something about missing headers, compiling kernel modules, etc. |
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| 19:29.53 | n4dir | probably something like this apt-get install -s linux-headers-$(uname -r) |
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| 19:30.23 | oxek | something like that, except that correct headers are already installed |
| 19:30.35 | oxek | I'm not looking for help with this right now, I think I'll solve it |
| 19:30.44 | oxek | thanks for trying to help though |
| 19:31.19 | oxek | maybe I really should use https://people.debian.org/~lucas/virtualbox-buster/ instead |
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| 20:01.55 | karlpinc | How do I use the apt toolkit on a virtual package (virtualbox) to see what is installed when you ask for it? |
| 20:04.05 | jhutchins | karlpinc: Check the man page, there's an option to do a dry-run. |
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| 20:08.31 | karlpinc | Well, I could use aptitude install.... and if there's depenencies it always asks and I can say no. But that's kinda lame. There must be a way to "just ask". |
| 20:08.51 | oxek | apt -s install |
| 20:09.08 | jmcnaught | karlpinc: "aptitude search '?provides(virtualbox)'" (short for ~Pvirtualbox) will show you which real packages provide a virtual package. It's none for virtualbox on buster for me. |
| 20:09.35 | karlpinc | does not see -s on the apt man page.... |
| 20:09.50 | jmcnaught | A better example is "aptitude search ~Pmail-transport-agent". |
| 20:09.51 | oxek | karlpinc: it will be in the apt-get manpage |
| 20:10.13 | karlpinc | jmcnaught: That's probably the "right" asnwer. |
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| 20:11.00 | karlpinc | oxek: (Why are apt options documented only on the apt-get man page? Or) did you mean apt-get? |
| 20:11.10 | oxek | karlpinc: I did mean apt |
| 20:11.24 | oxek | apt is the user interface to apt-get, apt-cache, etc. |
| 20:11.34 | karlpinc | oxek: Ok. (Just another reason to be unpleased with "apt". ;) |
| 20:12.03 | jmcnaught | Virtual packages are used when there's more than one package that could fill that role (think apache2 or nginx both provide httpd allowing other packages to agnostically depend on 'httpd'. You can't install a virtual package directly, you need to explicitly select one to install. |
| 20:12.03 | karlpinc | oxek: Well, but not aptitude. (I assume.) |
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| 20:12.29 | jmcnaught | aptitude also has -s, --simulate |
| 20:14.36 | karlpinc | Thanks all for the help. |
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| 21:43.18 | oxek | sney: what I said earlier was mistaken - oracle does not provide support for vbox 5.2 nor 6.0, support was ended in July 2020, hence only vbox 6.1 (the latest release) is supported. |
| 21:43.58 | oxek | I can see why that would be an issue for debian |
| 21:44.34 | jhutchins | I thought there was a vbox component or driver or something that wasn't free as well. |
| 21:44.52 | oxek | version 6.0 cut support for 32bit hosts (and that's why the latest 5.2 download is still offered), and 6.1 cut support for software virtualization (hence 6.0 download is still offered). |
| 21:45.11 | oxek | 6.1 will receive long term support |
| 21:45.18 | oxek | so 6.1 could be suitable for debian |
| 21:45.30 | oxek | (no big cuts in functionality are planned) |
| 21:45.47 | oxek | jhutchins: vbox could still be in contrib & non-free |
| 21:45.54 | oxek | just like rar and others |
| 21:45.55 | jhutchins | I was realised that the free VMWare thing wouldn't handle 64b software about five years ago. |
| 21:46.11 | sney | jhutchins: oracle's licenses are always crappy, but if security support is available then it can still be in non-free. but it isn't. |
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| 21:46.40 | oxek | I did not want to bring up the discussion again, I just wanted to correct a mistaken statement I gave earlier |
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| 21:47.08 | sney | and oracle might be saying that they'll LTS 6.1 right now, but we know from experience that they might just change their minds with no warning |
| 21:47.20 | sney | it's not my call but I wouldn't do it |
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| 21:48.13 | jhutchins | I must say running vbox as a host on w10 worked pretty well. |
| 21:48.55 | oxek | vbox is the only "open-source" option on windows, no? |
| 21:49.13 | sney | yeah, the worst thing about oracle is that their software is usually pretty useful. so we can't just disregard them and their products completely. |
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| 21:50.15 | sney | the only windows gui vm solutions I can remember offhand are vbox and hyper-v, so maybe? |
| 21:51.44 | sney | xencenter runs in windows but it's just the management console, the actual server is linux. |
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| 21:56.29 | somiaj | isn't windows WSL or whatever it called an option (not open source) but comes with windows -- though I think it is mostly for chroots/console like setups |
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| 21:58.20 | sney | that's not virtualization. it's more like a chroot |
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| 21:59.28 | somiaj | Yea, not sure what exactly it can do, but depending on the use case, it could be an option. |
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| 22:00.16 | sney | it's a reasonably capable ubuntu userland running natively in windows. it's pretty strange. if you went back to 2005 and told a bunch of linux nerds that was going to happen... lol |
| 22:00.47 | sney | bludgeons himself with an !offtopic |
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| 22:01.02 | somiaj | Well installing debian inside there might almost be on topic. |
| 22:03.33 | dax | it's not just ubuntu, there's a debian (and other distros) for it in the microsoft store too |
| 22:03.56 | dax | dpkg: wsl |
| 22:03.56 | dpkg | https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Microsoft/Windows/SubsystemForLinux, or irc channel #debian-wsl on <OFTC> |
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| 22:06.03 | sponix | One more step towards Microsoft Linux |
| 22:07.13 | sney | I was speculating just recently that with the recent hubris from Mozilla and Google, it might be time for open source Edge |
| 22:07.43 | sney | 90s bill gates eat your heart out, suddenly everyone is using internet explorer and it's by choice |
| 22:08.02 | sponix | lol |
| 22:08.04 | sponix | ikr |
| 22:08.06 | dax | it's based on chromium now anyway, no good reason not to |
| 22:08.47 | sponix | all a matter of who you want to have your data at this point |
| 22:16.58 | jhutchins | Being |
| 22:17.47 | jhutchins | Being "on" the internet and demanding privacy, or nobody PM me, or no unsolicited email, or no clickbait just shows a major misunderstanding of what the 'net is. |
| 22:18.34 | n4dir | because it sucks the way it does today doesn't mean it has to be like that. |
| 22:18.55 | sney | it's like having to trade some liberty for some security. there's always going to be a trade-off, it's just better for us to have some say in the matter |
| 22:19.44 | n4dir | they are not having at something like the freedombox only for the lulz |
| 22:20.53 | jhutchins | Once you open a can of worms, certain processes are irreversible. |
| 22:21.22 | n4dir | it pretty much looks like it, but i am not willing to give an applause to it |
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| 22:23.24 | oxek | there's still torbrowser |
| 22:23.35 | Ede|Popede | it's not even only on the net. filthy companies were calling you at home without being asked to, people getting you out of bed on saturday mornings just to convince you that their religion is the only true thing. and then all the people for whom tar barrels have been invented. |
| 22:23.40 | oxek | (surprisingly not packaged in debian) |
| 22:24.08 | n4dir | Ede|Popede: yup. Besides being filmed all the time. |
| 22:24.28 | sney | !wnpp |
| 22:24.28 | dpkg | For information on packages which are not in Debian but you think should be, check the Work-Needing and Prospective Packages list at http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp (refinable list at http://wnpp.debian.net/). Use wnpp-alert (from the <devscripts> package) to see what packages you are using that are in need of help. |
| 22:24.32 | Ede|Popede | oh, london. but even on busses here now afaik |
| 22:24.40 | n4dir | yup. |
| 22:24.48 | sney | there's probably a conversation in wnpp about why torbrowser isn't in debian. (it may be ongoing) |
| 22:24.53 | n4dir | i wonder when they come up with the idea of filming you at home |
| 22:25.04 | Ede|Popede | google homeview? |
| 22:25.38 | Ede|Popede | could become one of the "it wasn't meant as a blueprint, it was satire!" |
| 22:25.40 | n4dir | it ain't that hard to run tor yourself. The problem is to set up the browser correct (or correctly, i don't know) |
| 22:25.42 | oxek | some people would love google homeview - "hey google, where are my car keys" |
| 22:25.49 | n4dir | lol |
| 22:25.58 | MikeDebian | Hey guys, one of my servers is running linux software raid (mdadm) RAID 1 with 2 HDD disks. I'll soon need to swap this setup to 6 SSD's with RAID 6. Once the RAID 1 is copied to the two SSD's and it is functional, I'll then convert the raid 1 to raid 5 and finally to raid 6 as it seems converting raid 1 directly to raid 6 is not possible. |
| 22:26.06 | Ede|Popede | they promised us rfid tags for such things 2 decades ago |
| 22:26.09 | MikeDebian | However, my biggest doubt at the moment is the best way to clone/copy the current RAID 1 to the new SSD drives. |
| 22:26.15 | MikeDebian | My current though is: on a separate machine, could I simply boot the 2 new SSDs with a debian live cd, install mdadm and all the needed stuff, partition the SSDs exactly like the HDDs are (with the exception of the root partition that might be bigger if I use higher capacity disks), create the RAID 1 and the arrays, format the arrays and then simply scp (or gzip and untar) the original RAID1 content (/boot and /) to this new one? Is this a |
| 22:26.15 | MikeDebian | good approach, will it work? I believe mdadm is not aware of the hardware itself or the disks so once the RAID1 is on the new SSD disks, it should work |
| 22:27.30 | sney | make a backup, create the array, restore the backup to the array. |
| 22:27.34 | phogg | Will it work? Yes, if you do it right (there are some caveats). Is it a good approach? No comment... |
| 22:27.51 | MikeDebian | sney, that's basically what I said, right? |
| 22:28.20 | sney | honestly I kind of gloss over whenever someone pastes a pre-written paragraph into irc |
| 22:29.03 | MikeDebian | it was pre-written cause I wrote this on linux-raid channel and got no replies... what's the problem with that? does that change the question? |
| 22:29.09 | MikeDebian | if you don't to help fine, just leave it |
| 22:29.23 | MikeDebian | don't want* |
| 22:29.44 | MikeDebian | phogg, fantastic reply... |
| 22:29.48 | oxek | sney: found no conversation in wnpp for torbrowser |
| 22:29.52 | oxek | maybe noone asked? |
| 22:30.17 | sney | make a backup, create the array, restore the backup to the array. that is how this is done. if you need to do a dance because you have limited storage or whatever, then that dance you described will probably work |
| 22:30.32 | phogg | MikeDebian: I can't recommend this course of action. I could do it, but there are a lot of ways you could end up with a broken system and data loss. Having a backup is strongly encouraged. |
| 22:30.36 | sney | but if you want to do it right, then make a backup, create the array, and restore the backup to the array. |
| 22:31.08 | MikeDebian | There's no problem about doing the backup and restore (instead of scp) |
| 22:31.43 | MikeDebian | There's really no much different in gziping the data then unzip or use scp |
| 22:31.43 | sney | oxek: if nobody has RFP/ITP'ed torbrowser then that's probably the reason. you seem reasonably technical, why not volunteer and package it yourself? |
| 22:31.58 | MikeDebian | Because the original RAID 1 server will be up and running while I create the new raid 1 on a separate machine |
| 22:31.59 | phogg | MikeDebian: a backup is sometimes as simple as a file copy |
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| 22:32.38 | MikeDebian | phogg, sure, scp... as for real backup's I have another dedicated server that has a complete backup of this main RAID 1 server |
| 22:32.53 | MikeDebian | actually I have 2 backups |
| 22:32.56 | MikeDebian | One local and one remote |
| 22:33.16 | sney | sounds like you're good to go then. |
| 22:34.03 | MikeDebian | sney, thanks for the input. I just wanted to check if there was nothing I was overlooking in the process |
| 22:34.19 | phogg | MikeDebian: bootloader, if needed |
| 22:34.19 | MikeDebian | Cause I don't want to repeat the process multiple times with multiple approaches until I get it right |
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| 22:34.58 | MikeDebian | phogg, hum? |
| 22:35.29 | MikeDebian | Do you mean reinstalling grub on the new SSDs? |
| 22:35.39 | phogg | MikeDebian: if this is your boot disk you may also need space for a boot record or partition, depending on how you boot |
| 22:35.45 | phogg | MikeDebian: yes |
| 22:35.45 | n4dir | software ingen says it would only need python. I am told to run ./waf --configure, but it tells me right away it can't find the module waflib. apt-cache search for it tells me nothing i would understand. |
| 22:35.57 | MikeDebian | phogg, the new SSD disks will be partitioned as the original ones |
| 22:36.06 | MikeDebian | So yes, it will have a boot partition, root partition and swap partition |
| 22:37.09 | MikeDebian | As for grub itself, it won't hurt installing it on the new SSD but when copying /boot partition I assume it work the same way right? |
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| 22:38.36 | sney | n4dir: looks like xmds2 has waflib. I don't know what that is either. also check if your thing's upstream cares if its python 2 or 3 |
| 22:39.03 | n4dir | thanks sney |
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| 22:43.17 | oxek | sney: I really want to do things for debian, I just need to find the time to read and learn all the debian documentation |
| 22:43.41 | oxek | (and sort out issues like not being able to send mails to reportbug.debian.org, not being able to access the wiki, not being able to connect to oftc...) |
| 22:45.51 | sney | you could probably email pabs about all 3 of those things. but I found that doing packaging work myself helped me understand more about how debian works, so I recommend it if that's one of your goals. |
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| 22:46.20 | sney | even just package it for yourself and get familiar with the pieces, before doing anything formal. |
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| 22:47.53 | oxek | I'll get to it, one day |
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| 22:52.06 | karlpinc | oxek: reportbug.debian.org is often slow. It uses greylisting, so if you're using a non-compliant MTA that does not resend, after waiting, on a 400 class response then that'd be the issue. (IIRC) |
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| 22:58.14 | sney | I think my first whack at packaging hexchat took an hour or less. if the program has a sane build system, it pretty much just goes, for personal usage anyway. then you gradually add the everyone-else stuff. |
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| 23:03.02 | MTecknology | ratrace: Since you seem to know a bit about steam on linux. Do you happen to know what it takes to run rockstar games? I grabbed the special proton thingy and used that to install game files and attempt to launch, but it's complaining about not being able to find the rockstar games launcher. I assumed steam would just grab what was needed, but perhaps not that? Do I need to download |
| 23:03.08 | MTecknology | the installer and install via the wine binary inside ~/.steam, or find some way to install via steam app, or ?? ... only asking in here because you seem to know things. I can't find an appropriate channel either... |
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| 23:04.17 | sney | you need to enable the steam beta client and then steam mostly handles itself, but for some games you need to go into the properties and select the specific linux runtime. |
| 23:04.38 | sney | protondb will sometimes have game-specific info and workarounds as well. |
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| 23:07.54 | ratrace | MTecknology: sorry, I wouldn't know about that |
| 23:08.05 | MTecknology | crosses fingers |
| 23:09.06 | MTecknology | Wooo! |
| 23:09.17 | MTecknology | hugs sney & ratrace |
| 23:11.20 | sney | np bud |
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| 23:33.27 | MTecknology | sney: sooooooo close... With the steam beta client, it installed the rockstar launcher. When I try to play rdr2, it launches the rockstar launcher (first time, it asked about linking & cloud saves), but then eventually nothing. I see Launcher.exe and winedevice.exe stay running. There's a rockstar launcher icon that shows up in my system tray. If I right click it, it looks like there |
| 23:33.32 | MTecknology | are three options, but no text is visible. If I click what appears to be the last option, it will exit; the first seems to launch SocialClubHelper, but the rockstar launcher window thingy starts, but never does anything. If I try to close it, it suggests the game is currently running. Trying the second option seems to be for settings. That window opens up just fine until the loader |
| 23:33.38 | MTecknology | screen finishes- then nothing shows. |
| 23:33.41 | MTecknology | (scratch that last bit... it finally showed) |
| 23:34.18 | sney | sometimes it's just p slow |
| 23:34.45 | sney | I think there's a #steamlug on this network for genuine support |
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| 23:44.08 | MTecknology | Ah, thanks for the channel. I'll just keep waiting for it to launch and for an answer in that channel. |
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