| 00:00.13 | nvz | in the future we may see more ease in putting anything into such a thing |
| 00:00.35 | nvz | in fact I think some panels like xfce's have applets that can run a command and put its output into the terminal |
| 00:00.56 | nvz | with such a thing it'd be trivial to display the information in question in a panel |
| 00:01.02 | nvz | just not in the notification area |
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| 00:34.07 | sponix | Unit193: you alive ? |
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| 00:55.09 | Unit193 | sponix: Yeah. |
| 00:56.28 | sponix | Unit193: If I backport the latest Firefox ESR from Sid to buster -- will you help me find someone to add it to the repo ? |
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| 00:59.03 | Unit193 | Shouldn't it make it eventually? Also, seems it's failing on i386 as well as others right now. |
| 00:59.43 | sponix | ,v firefox-esr |
| 00:59.44 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 68.9.0esr-1~deb8u2; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.10.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 68.11.0esr-1; buster-proposed-updates: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: |
| 00:59.45 | judd | 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; sid: 78.2.0esr-1 |
| 00:59.58 | sponix | _eventually_ it will make it :P |
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| 01:05.02 | JordiGH | Where does system store journals? |
| 01:06.37 | sponix | JordiGH: for systemd ? or for damn near everything else ? |
| 01:07.16 | JordiGH | y'know what, I'll just strace journalctl |
| 01:07.31 | Unit193 | Either in memory or /var/log/journal/ |
| 01:08.09 | Unit193 | sponix: Heh, and just now a new esr is uploaded. |
| 01:08.35 | sponix | Unit193: you are freaking kidding me -- right ? |
| 01:09.03 | Unit193 | To unstable, but still. |
| 01:09.17 | sponix | Unit193: its been in "Sid" for a bit |
| 01:09.38 | sponix | I'm doing up a VM to see what is required to backport it to Buster |
| 01:09.47 | sponix | Might be way more deps than I want to deal with |
| 01:09.51 | sney | oh hey, 78.3.0esr-1 with an upload date of September 23rd. It's still the 22nd where I am |
| 01:10.07 | sney | now that's timely. |
| 01:10.42 | JordiGH | So what's /run/log/journal? |
| 01:10.46 | JordiGH | I have no /var/log/journal |
| 01:10.54 | JordiGH | I just found /run/log/journal by stracing. |
| 01:11.34 | sponix2ipfw | is it judd or dpkg that does the ssb ? |
| 01:12.06 | sney | sponix: building firefox is a large undertaking. if you succeed in building it for your own purposes, then you'll have it for a while before the rest of us. but ff's maintainer will certainly get it into buster-backports before long |
| 01:12.16 | sney | dpkg does ssb, judd does checkbackport |
| 01:12.16 | dpkg | i don't know, sney |
| 01:12.22 | sney | !botsnack |
| 01:12.22 | dpkg | sney: :) |
| 01:12.46 | JordiGH | Unit193: What made you think it was /var/log/journal ? |
| 01:13.01 | JordiGH | Do I have some weird setup that puts it in /run/log/journal instead? |
| 01:13.11 | sney | it's /var/log/journal here on bullseye. checking buster.. |
| 01:13.41 | sney | and on buster it's /run/log/journal. |
| 01:14.14 | JordiGH | Older version of systemd? |
| 01:14.27 | sney | systemd on buster is older, yes |
| 01:15.17 | derpadmin | aren'nt the systemd logs stored in binary? |
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| 01:15.33 | SerajewelKS | is there some dkms-compatible source for the exfat driver in 5.7 that works on 4.19? |
| 01:15.42 | JordiGH | derpadmin: They ar.e |
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| 01:16.06 | JordiGH | sney: Does journalctl work without root in daredevil? |
| 01:16.13 | SerajewelKS | the fuse exfat driver can barely maintain 2MB/s write throughput and pegs a CPU core while it does |
| 01:17.09 | sney | JordiGH: I don't know what you mean by daredevil, but you still need the systemd-journal group for normal user to access systemd's journal in bullseye, as in buster. |
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| 01:17.26 | JordiGH | Ha, sorry, I meant bullseye. |
| 01:17.34 | JordiGH | My brain did an accidental substitution. |
| 01:17.56 | sney | the main difference is that /run is a tmpfs while /var is not. (by default, anyway.) there may be a justification for that change in bullseye's systemd's changelog. |
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| 01:19.41 | sney | ,v exfat-fuse |
| 01:19.42 | judd | Package: exfat-fuse on amd64 -- jessie: 1.1.0-2+deb8u1; stretch: 1.2.5-2; buster: 1.3.0-1; bullseye: 1.3.0-2; sid: 1.3.0-2 |
| 01:21.16 | sponix2ipfw | Unit193 sney : after seeing the level of involvement to build firefox-esr --- I'm just gonna wait for it to hit the backports. My slightly dated version is working just fine LOL |
| 01:22.15 | SerajewelKS | looks like https://github.com/arter97/exfat-linux is what i want though there is no dkms config. it goes back to 4.9. |
| 01:22.24 | sney | SerajewelKS: not available through the usual debian sources. some modules can be backported from one kernel to another, though it's not a trivial thing. if exfat.ko exists in a late 4.x kernel that might be doable |
| 01:22.43 | sney | it'll be a fun hacky project, if you enjoy that kind of thing |
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| 01:23.13 | SerajewelKS | sney: it looks like the source i just pasted should work, but the dkms package there is for ubuntu, so i can either try that and cross my fingers or i can build it with make. |
| 01:23.57 | sney | a dkms package from ubuntu would probably just work, or at least with minimal modification |
| 01:24.39 | SerajewelKS | that was my thought as well. but adding an ubuntu PPA to debian makes me itch. |
| 01:24.57 | sney | ubuntu PPAs have .dsc files like any debian repo, so you can grab that manually with dget |
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| 01:27.44 | SerajewelKS | i'll just go the "make install" route. the Makefile is simple and only installs the one .ko. |
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| 01:39.30 | SerajewelKS | lol and that driver doesn't even work |
| 01:39.38 | SerajewelKS | exFAT-fs (sdf2): failed to load upcase table \n exFAT-fs (sdf2): failed to recognize exfat type |
| 01:39.41 | SerajewelKS | h'okay then |
| 01:41.46 | SerajewelKS | oh it was a page allocation failure. wtf? |
| 01:44.23 | SerajewelKS | i have 8GB of available memory, how much does this need!? |
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| 01:45.38 | sney | it's a kernel module from a newer kernel backported by one rando on github, it's basically pre-release software and should be considered unreliable |
| 01:45.57 | sney | awesome that it built, though :P |
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| 01:49.24 | JordiGH | jordi@chloe:~$ sudo journalctl -g 'kernel.*memory' |
| 01:49.24 | JordiGH | Compiled without pattern matching support |
| 01:49.27 | JordiGH | :-((((( |
| 01:51.19 | SerajewelKS | sney: it failed over and over then finally mounted *shrug* |
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| 01:53.08 | SerajewelKS | sney: and reads return garbage... heh. so something isn't right here. |
| 01:53.21 | sney | pre-release, some rando, etc |
| 01:53.42 | sney | I see the readme says they "tested" it on 4.19 but that might have stopped at the build success. |
| 01:55.20 | SerajewelKS | file temp.qcow2 -> temp.qcow2: Targa image data - Map 63707 x 65536 x 1 +404 +14403 - top - reserved |
| 01:55.23 | SerajewelKS | uhhhhhh okay |
| 01:55.39 | SerajewelKS | with exfat-fuse: temp.qcow2: QEMU QCOW Image (v3), 4700000000000 bytes |
| 01:55.50 | SerajewelKS | so something is fucky there, not going any further with that |
| 01:55.59 | sney | clearly. |
| 01:56.15 | sney | buster-backports has a 5.7 at least. |
| 01:56.47 | SerajewelKS | i might give that a go, though last time i tried with 5.5 i had USB disconnect issues that i don't have with 4.19 |
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| 01:57.10 | sney | that was 2 whole versions ago. |
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| 02:01.57 | SerajewelKS | indeed. but my backup drives are connected over USB and i don't want my backups failing. with sustained writes on a crypt layer on top of a USB drive, i would suddenly get a USB disconnect and the drive would go offline until replugged. |
| 02:02.10 | SerajewelKS | sounds like a drive problem EXCEPT it was consistent with 5.5 on every device i had available to test |
| 02:03.14 | SerajewelKS | i never found any mention of the issue so i have no idea if it's fixed in 5.7. i also use btrfs and it's strongly discouraged to use a btrfs volume on a newer kernel then go back to an older kernel. |
| 02:04.58 | sney | well that's a zfs feature I would have copied, sheesh |
| 02:06.07 | SerajewelKS | hmm? |
| 02:06.59 | sney | newer zfs versions support more features, but you have to deliberately upgrade your storage pool for them. until you do that, the pool is still usable by the older versions |
| 02:07.09 | SerajewelKS | maybe that's specific to raid5 (which is still very much in development) |
| 02:07.44 | SerajewelKS | btrfs has similar compat flags |
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| 02:15.36 | Unit193 | JordiGH: Depends on if you have persistent logs, like I said. If you don't have that directory, then you don't... |
| 02:16.45 | JordiGH | Unit193: Looks like it just used to be a different dir. |
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| 02:17.15 | Unit193 | sponix2ipfw: Yeah, I wouldn't want to build firefox either, I've done that before. Not something I'm getting near. :) |
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| 03:53.46 | edufmass | Hello, I unziped an app into /opt/appname and I run /opt/appname/bin/app.sh, How to enable to just run app command everywhere? |
| 03:55.18 | edufmass | or anywhere.. I don't speak English very well xD |
| 03:57.14 | sney | this is how I do it: ln -s /opt/appname/bin/app.sh /usr/local/bin/app |
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| 03:59.43 | sney | /usr/local is not touched by apt or dpkg. so anything you put there is not going to conflict with a debian package, as long as it doesn't have the same name (eg 'python') as an important binary. |
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| 04:02.28 | KOLANICH | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=970765 |
| 04:03.28 | edufmass | sney, thank you!! |
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| 04:08.31 | sponix | sney: you use wireguard ? |
| 04:10.07 | sney | not yet. I intend to, but no rush |
| 04:10.23 | sponix | sney: it does seem to perform better than openvpn |
| 04:11.36 | sponix | sney: when you go to approach it, I recommend this guide https://serversideup.net/courses/gain-flexibility-and-increase-privacy-with-wireguard-vpn/ |
| 04:11.44 | sponix | I was LOST trying to follow others prior |
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| 04:13.00 | sney | sponix: I've been on an ipsec vpn configured on my router since february, and it's extremely reliable, so I'll probably wait until some news from either vendor tells me it's time to switch. regardless, thank you for the link, but I am a retired networking professional. |
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| 04:14.44 | sponix | sney: I only know what networking is needed for server/client/rig administration .... most of which was learned just by "tinkering" |
| 04:15.19 | sney | that is a good place to start. |
| 04:16.02 | sney | and a lot of places will only hire you if you know how to research a solution to an issue that you haven't heard about recently. |
| 04:16.18 | sney | um, but once you get paid for it, you are generally pretty handy with VPNs. |
| 04:17.14 | sponix | sney: I couldn't figure out what config went in what box on the Mobile Android Wireguard app LOL ... So, I hand jammed the config on my rig, and used a QR code generator to scan the config for import :) |
| 04:17.38 | sponix | sney: _now_ I can look at those config boxes though, and see what I should have been entering where |
| 04:18.34 | sponix | have to admit. It took me about an hour and a half to learn how to do the basic configuration of both the server and client -- But most of that time was spent searching to find this guide that was worth a shit |
| 04:18.45 | sponix | research is half the battle though |
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| 04:19.54 | sney | I try to filter the guides and forums out of my search results as much as possible. |
| 04:21.01 | sney | everyone ships a manual of some sort. the more complicated stuff includes examples. the rest is "tinkering" as you said. |
| 04:21.40 | sney | whoever wrote that guide or shot that youtube video had to figure it out too. |
| 04:23.16 | sponix | other guides/examples were either more complicated than they needed to be, or only covered some aspects of what I needed. This one is segmented, but at least all segments coincide |
| 04:23.55 | sponix | linuxbabe.com has some pretty good guides :P |
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| 07:31.15 | jelly | ,v firefox-esr |
| 07:31.17 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 68.9.0esr-1~deb8u2; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.10.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 68.11.0esr-1; buster-proposed-updates: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: |
| 07:31.18 | judd | 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; sid: 78.2.0esr-1 |
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| 07:40.06 | ariejan | Hi. I'm running buster 10.5 in lxc on proxmox. The tmpfs mount for /run/lock is set to 5M which is insufficient for my current samba install. I want to resize this, but my added fstab entry seems to get ignored completely. Any ideas how to change the size of /run/lock? |
| 07:41.51 | ksk | !proxmox |
| 07:41.51 | dpkg | Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial ##proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Get_support |
| 07:42.25 | ksk | ariejan: I can imagine you would need to change that on the host, might be its not "virtulized". |
| 07:42.41 | ariejan | @ksk hmm, good point. I'll look into that. |
| 07:42.43 | nvz | ariejan: the tmpfs are likely setup in early boot stage probably in initrd even |
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| 07:43.04 | ksk | (inside lxc, there is no (additional) kernel) |
| 07:44.51 | nvz | I would imagine you can probably in debian set something like /etc/default/tmpfs and rebuild the initrd but this is all irrelevant in this scenario |
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| 08:02.46 | jelly | ariejan, you can mount -o remount,size=10M /run/lock on the fly to test whether it's going to work at all; I have no idea how limited LXC containers are and whether you're allowed to mount and umount things |
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| 08:16.33 | ksk | You cant, but chances are you can do so from the host (or modify the container itself, so it gets done on startup (via lxc.config) ) |
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| 08:17.59 | jelly | let's see if they say whether they can control the host at all |
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| 09:25.04 | j2mb0 | hey guys, yesterday i was struggling to install audacious of debian testing but with ur help i finally managed to do it after purging the underlaying broken libraries, reinstalling them then installing audacious. thank you again |
| 09:26.02 | j2mb0 | my next problem is trying to install dockbarx, my terminal outputs "depends: python: any(<2.8) but it is not installable. I wonder how to start researching the subject, what does this output mean? |
| 09:28.13 | ksk | !debian-next |
| 09:28.13 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 09:28.48 | ksk | j2mb0: that means that this package needs python in a version prior to "2.8" to run - and that there is no such python available for your debian release |
| 09:28.54 | j2mb0 | i dont think the subject is exclusive to testing |
| 09:29.01 | ksk | !frankendebian |
| 09:29.01 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 09:29.29 | j2mb0 | ksk: and why isnt it installable if it needs older versions? |
| 09:29.36 | ksk | j2mb0: of course it is, stable has different versions of anything, and you -should not- ever encounter such an error in stable. |
| 09:29.58 | ksk | because its dependencies are not fullfillable by apt |
| 09:30.06 | j2mb0 | How can i allow an exception? |
| 09:30.10 | ksk | You cant. |
| 09:30.34 | ksk | You should not "just run testing" btw. Chances are high you already broke your system in various ways. |
| 09:30.56 | j2mb0 | So it could be my system and not the apt sources? |
| 09:31.27 | ksk | !bat |
| 09:31.27 | dpkg | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 09:31.53 | j2mb0 | what output are you looking for? "apt install dockbarx"? |
| 09:31.57 | ksk | eh, nevermind. If you are running testing, you need to go to #debian-next on OFTC network. No need to provide the "BAT" information in here.. |
| 09:32.46 | ksk | Feel free to link the output over there. And no, we would need everything the faqtoid just told you, not just one out of X. |
| 09:33.12 | j2mb0 | i wont be able to enter the channel if it is invite only |
| 09:33.14 | ksk | But I can only repeat myself: If you are not familiar with (Debian) Linux, you should not run testing. |
| 09:33.30 | ksk | j2mb0: read the instructions about debian next again. Hint: Its on another network. |
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| 09:34.06 | Lope | is it possible to add a wifi adapter, connected as a "client" to a bridge, with network-manager? |
| 09:34.07 | j2mb0 | I thought i am familiar with linux dependencies until i realized this problem is infeasible |
| 09:34.24 | j2mb0 | thank you for your help, i will go to OFTC |
| 09:35.32 | ksk | Did you have a reason to go to testing? If not, reinstall :P |
| 09:35.56 | j2mb0 | I cant afford reinstalling right now, my job is more important, but i will consider that |
| 09:36.15 | ksk | Oof², running testing in production is.. |
| 09:36.18 | ksk | !testing security |
| 09:36.18 | dpkg | Security updates in testing are delayed by the normal testing migration *and* may be further delayed by missing dependencies, etc. See https://www.debian.org/security/faq#testing ; «deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main» can be used (but will be empty). |
| 09:36.22 | j2mb0 | An expert friend suggested taking the middle way not stable and experimental but testing :) |
| 09:36.40 | j2mb0 | It is my home computer |
| 09:36.49 | j2mb0 | good advice tho ;) |
| 09:36.53 | j2mb0 | thought* |
| 09:37.04 | j2mb0 | though* omg am confused |
| 09:37.11 | Haohmaru | testing is not for n00bz btw |
| 09:38.33 | Haohmaru | i was recommended to get debian testing, but then i quickly found out that it's like a forest at night... so i went for stable |
| 09:39.11 | Haohmaru | in #debian-next they expect you know wtf you're doing (and i didn't even..) |
| 09:39.55 | ksk | That is true, yes. |
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| 10:22.39 | nevivurn | I mean, the thing is called "testing" for a reason |
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| 10:33.22 | Lope | flatpak remote-ls: "error: GPG verification enabled, but no summary found (check that the configured URL in remote config is correct)" |
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| 10:35.41 | Lope | flatpak remotes shows "flathub system" |
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| 10:36.18 | Lope | apparently I'm supposed to reboot |
| 10:36.21 | Lope | brb |
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| 10:54.55 | Lope | does anybody know how to make flatpak/flathub work? |
| 10:55.07 | Lope | flatpak remote-ls: "error: GPG verification enabled, but no summary found (check that the configured URL in remote config is correct)" |
| 10:55.15 | ksk | !problem |
| 10:55.15 | dpkg | [problem] something that can be solved, fixed or worked around if properly described. A good thorough description of the problem, with detailed steps of how to reproduce the problem, the produced output, and the expected output, is the best start to discuss a problem. |
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| 11:07.31 | NetTerminalGene | ,v firefox-esr |
| 11:07.32 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 68.9.0esr-1~deb8u2; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.10.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 68.11.0esr-1; buster-proposed-updates: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: |
| 11:07.33 | judd | 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; sid: 78.3.0esr-1 |
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| 11:10.15 | ratrace | patience, young padawan |
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| 11:17.09 | Lope | CPU type of a VM, do you get better performance choosing Haswell / Haswell-IBRS / Haswell-NoTSX / Haswell-NoTSX-IBRS? |
| 11:17.34 | ratrace | why emulate? just use native cpu |
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| 11:19.47 | wyoung | Lope: If you emulate it goes sloooooow |
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| 11:20.58 | ratrace | it goes slower than Zootopia sloth bathing in molasses in winter. |
| 11:21.29 | tramplefoot | If you are using QEMU, using an emulated CPU will make it as slow as Bochs |
| 11:21.40 | tramplefoot | And the main argument against Bochs is usually its speed |
| 11:22.30 | ksk | Lope: I dont think you get answers different from what people are saying in ##linux in here.. :P |
| 11:22.51 | ksk | PS: Might be a good Idea to start fresh, with a "I want do do XY" question. |
| 11:23.33 | ratrace | PPS. ksk is right! |
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| 11:48.49 | genr8_ | just pick regular Haswell |
| 11:49.08 | genr8_ | the options arent for speed, they are for mitigating security issues |
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| 11:58.29 | ix_ | hello, can anyone tell me how to permanently disable a service? I want to disable NTP, because there is an issue with the time (dual boot) |
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| 11:59.34 | nkuttler | ix_: just uninstall it? |
| 11:59.53 | nkuttler | but, systemctl disable <service> |
| 12:00.00 | ratrace | ix_: systemctl disable ntp.service, assuming ntp.service is the service unit for it :: there are several ntpd programs so depends which one you have. |
| 12:00.09 | hmuller | do these images: https://salsa.debian.org/raspi-team/image-specs boot using EFI-stub? |
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| 12:00.35 | ratrace | also, you might wish to systemctl mask <unit> because disable'ing only affects explicit starting; other services may force a dependency start, so "mask" is what you want to completely, fully, prevent it from starting |
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| 12:01.49 | ix_ | ok, how do I uninstall NTP? |
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| 12:03.57 | ratrace | ix_: which program is it? |
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| 12:04.37 | ix_ | @ratrace, how would I know? it is the standard Debian one |
| 12:05.06 | ratrace | ix_: dpkg -l | grep -P "ntp|chrony" |
| 12:05.36 | ix_ | ratrace, nothing |
| 12:05.56 | ratrace | then you're probably running systemd-timesyncd. verify with systemctl status systemd-timesyncd.service |
| 12:06.57 | ix_ | yep, that's the one |
| 12:07.05 | ratrace | well, you can't uninstall that. you can "disable" or better "mask" the systemd-timesyncd.service . assuming you actually want to shoot yourself in the foot and disable an NTP service. clocks drift all the time. |
| 12:07.22 | ratrace | ix_: but eh.... dual boot with windows issues? you can regedit windows to use UTC time |
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| 12:08.30 | ix_ | ratrace, I tried that, I would prefer to just disable NTP on Debian |
| 12:08.59 | ratrace | you probably didn't try it properly if it didn't work. regedit windows is THE way to solve this issue. |
| 12:09.07 | ix_ | so how do I permanently disable systemd-timesyncd |
| 12:09.17 | ratrace | systemctl mask systemd-timesyncd.service |
| 12:09.22 | ratrace | then stop the service |
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| 12:10.47 | ix_ | ratrace, thank you :) |
| 12:11.32 | hmuller | your time will drift, but you can set it manually every time you need accurate time |
| 12:12.00 | ix_ | yes, I know that the clock drifts, I'm fine with it |
| 12:12.18 | ratrace | ix_: in which case you might wish to set your rtc time in debian to localtime |
| 12:12.30 | ratrace | timedatectl set-local-rtc true (I think) |
| 12:12.52 | ratrace | that way, windows time-sync will set rtc clock to localtime, so at least you'll have somwehat correct clock when you boot back from windows |
| 12:13.11 | ix_ | ratrace, my Debian clock is UTC |
| 12:13.31 | ratrace | you'll have to set it to locatime unless you want it off |
| 12:13.44 | ratrace | off = offset by your timezone |
| 12:14.17 | ix_ | ratrace, well, if it thinks that my time is UTC and the BIOS time is UTC, then it will show me BIOS time, which is actually local time |
| 12:15.03 | ratrace | my OCD is screaming, pulling its hair out and screaming, now, btw, so thanks for that. |
| 12:15.10 | ix_ | :) |
| 12:15.11 | hmuller | lol |
| 12:16.01 | dvs | ix_: you want to disable ntp because the BIOS clock keeps getting changed by Debian? |
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| 12:16.12 | hmuller | I stopped dual booting years ago and have forgotten all the quirks |
| 12:16.50 | ix_ | dvs, yep, exactly |
| 12:17.23 | genr8_ | this is a one time fix. BIOS time should be UTC in 2020. |
| 12:17.23 | dvs | ix_: you can set Debian to interpret the BIOS clock as localtime instead of UTC |
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| 12:17.37 | genr8_ | or that. |
| 12:18.00 | ratrace | already recommended with timedatectl |
| 12:18.01 | hmuller | dvs: ratrace: told ix_ that =) |
| 12:18.02 | ix_ | genr8_, I agree, but windows is stuck in the past |
| 12:18.16 | hmuller | lol, yes it is |
| 12:18.18 | ratrace | windows can be regedit'ed to store time in UTC |
| 12:18.21 | genr8_ | Windows knows how to deal with it |
| 12:18.40 | dvs | My Windows is set to interpret the BIOS clock as UTC |
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| 12:19.48 | genr8_ | use "timedatectl" in linux |
| 12:21.06 | ix_ | genr8_, nice, I see that I can tell it to set rtc to local |
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| 12:24.15 | no_gravity | Is there a command like "watch" that does not clear the screen after each output? So you can do "watch uptime" and see kind of a log of the load? |
| 12:24.53 | ix_ | ok, so I did the following: timedatectl set-local-rtc 1 && timedatectl set-timezone mytimezone |
| 12:25.12 | ix_ | it worked beautifully |
| 12:25.20 | RadoS | no_gravity, you can do that yourself in shell-cmds. |
| 12:25.59 | tarzeau | no_gravity: while (sleep 1); do whatever; done |
| 12:26.16 | ix_ | ratrace, how do I unmask a service? |
| 12:26.24 | no_gravity | tarzeau: Awesome! |
| 12:26.39 | ratrace | ix_: with "unmask" :) |
| 12:26.45 | no_gravity | tarzeau: So "watch" is basically this? while (sleep 1); do clear; whatever; done |
| 12:26.53 | tarzeau | if i'd get a dollar for each answer i could stop being employed |
| 12:27.01 | tarzeau | no_gravity: more or less :) |
| 12:27.05 | no_gravity | tarzeau: Cool |
| 12:27.25 | tarzeau | no_gravity: it's a compiled program according to file, i never saw the source |
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| 12:27.41 | ix_ | ratrace, thank you |
| 12:27.45 | tarzeau | no_gravity: watch has many more options |
| 12:28.18 | no_gravity | tarzeau: Sure |
| 12:29.38 | ratrace | !next |
| 12:29.39 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
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| 12:30.07 | dvs | ratrace: you're suppose to do that AFTER they leave. ;-P |
| 12:31.45 | ratrace | maybe it's a hint for them to leave asap now that they've been served :) |
| 12:31.56 | ratrace | "honey, let's go to bed, the guests would like to go home". :) |
| 12:32.09 | dvs | heh |
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| 12:33.33 | Lope | ratrace, selecting Haswell / Haswell-IBRS / Haswell-NoTSX / Haswell-NoTSX-IBRS in KVM is not about emulation. it's about restricting instruction sets. And by doing so one might get better perf because of not needing to do mitigations for those instruction sets. |
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| 12:35.24 | ratrace | Lope: if you want to disable mitigations, then disable mitigations in the guest (and host). adding vt-x traps to instructions is not the way to go |
| 12:37.01 | Lope | ratrace, what do you mean by "traps" surely selecting the instructions just limits what the "cpu" will tell the kernel it has? |
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| 12:37.53 | Lope | ratrace, fair enough though. |
| 12:37.53 | ratrace | Lope: vt-x works by setting "traps" or interrupts where the CPU will hand off execution to a hypervisor-specified function |
| 12:38.11 | ratrace | Lope: without that, the hypervisor would need to run full emulation layer which would nuke the performance |
| 12:38.21 | Lope | ok |
| 12:39.08 | ratrace | also I'm not sure that by disabling specific instructions you actually prevent spectre/meltdown mitigations from running. maybe a small subset of them, but really if you want them off, just disable them. |
| 12:39.29 | ratrace | for linux guests, add "mitigations=off" to kernel command line and bob's your uncle. for windows, google for it, you'll have to regedit some things, but it's doable. |
| 12:39.39 | Lope | ratrace, I wonder why there are 4 variants of Haswell offered by KVM? |
| 12:40.26 | hmuller | is that "uncle=bob" ? |
| 12:40.29 | Lope | mitigations=off sounds cool, but then you better not browse the web in the VM etc. |
| 12:40.55 | ratrace | Lope: the browsers fixed javascript timing precision so it can't be used to xploit spectr or meltdown |
| 12:41.50 | genr8_ | Those variants are hardware instruction capability Mitigations=ON though |
| 12:42.06 | ratrace | and also, I have yet to read about a report of meltdown/spectre being actually used in attack in the wild. they're very hard to pull off, and make sense only for some limited, highly targeted server virtualization circumstances |
| 12:42.34 | ratrace | "wrench security" would be much, much, much cheaper with much better results, for any attacker. |
| 12:42.51 | genr8_ | I anticipate no real difference in setting the flags in the hypervisor vs the guest kernel |
| 12:43.22 | Lope | ratrace, oh, that's cool :) |
| 12:43.28 | genr8_ | cloud providers would want to enable them that way. |
| 12:43.48 | ratrace | genr8_: well some things are done twice, like trampoline and other mitigations in gcc |
| 12:43.54 | genr8_ | where they cant control the guest, and they opt for mitigation instead of speed |
| 12:43.57 | Lope | ratrace, also, a spectre/meltdown attack is probably quite obvious in terms of high CPU usage. |
| 12:44.20 | genr8_ | the retpoline is different than the IBRS hardware instruction provided through microcode |
| 12:44.28 | ratrace | Lope: maybe, maybe not. Have you ever seen one? ;) |
| 12:44.40 | Lope | kind of like when you boot a windows 10 VM and it Windows de(off)ender grinds 8 threads at 100% CPU usage for 15 minutes on every boot. |
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| 12:45.32 | ratrace | Lope: it's much likely to contract something much more efficient, than meltdown/spectre, on windows. |
| 12:45.38 | ratrace | much *more likely |
| 12:45.55 | genr8_ | IBPB+retpoline or IBPB+IBRS Is needed to fully mitigate it |
| 12:46.06 | Lope | ratrace, can't say I have. But it has to hammer the fuck out of CPU registers and whatnot to extract one bit per every few minutes or whatever, so I'm sure that would involve some high CPU usage. |
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| 12:46.28 | Lope | But it's possible some attacks are more efficient. |
| 12:46.41 | genr8_ | people can also have programs not compiled with those retpoline GCC options and youd be out of luck. |
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| 12:47.43 | genr8_ | like I said, those 4 Haswell choices are really for cloud providers who control the hypervisor only. If you control your own OS, you can do other things. |
| 12:48.13 | Lope | genr8_, so would the most secure option be Haswell + TSXoff + IBRS? |
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| 12:48.39 | genr8_ | yes |
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| 12:49.47 | ratrace | Lope: second most secure option is native CPU (no hypervisor shenanigans) with up to date microcode; the first most secure being using a CPU that's not vulnerable in the firrst place |
| 12:49.59 | jelly | Lope, I don't notice 15 minute loads on our virt. enviroment _at all_; it has peg CPU and run for hours-days for us to react |
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| 12:50.42 | jelly | disabling hyperthreading works around a nice number of those issues |
| 12:50.48 | genr8_ | thats talking about the hypervisor layer, not the native CPU. |
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| 12:50.56 | Lope | jelly, in this instance I'm just actually running my own linux VM on my linux desktop/laptop |
| 12:51.34 | Lope | jelly, you could monitor for that, but... eh. |
| 12:52.06 | Lope | detecting clients maxing CPU temporarily is pointless though. |
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| 12:52.25 | Lope | my reference to noticing CPU usage was in my context of desktop/laptop use. |
| 12:52.52 | jelly | you'll probably notice temp and/or fan sensors rising |
| 12:53.02 | jelly | or the noise, or laptop getting warm |
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| 12:53.31 | ratrace | Lope: heads up for kernel 5.10+, some devs submit patches that wants to enable L1D flushing mitigations by default ( |
| 12:53.40 | {g} | When a server responds slow, is there a way to figure out if the server itself is slow or the connection to the server? |
| 12:53.52 | ratrace | %s/\(/:(/ |
| 12:54.26 | ratrace | {g}: yes, but that depends on the service |
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| 12:55.41 | {g} | ratrace: Service? It is an apache server. |
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| 12:56.33 | ratrace | so the service is apache |
| 12:56.42 | {g} | Yeah |
| 12:57.18 | genr8_ | yea, i just confirmed, you need to explicitly set the "IBRS" cpu option in qemu to expose that feature to guests. just having a safe CPU does not allow the guest to take advantage of it |
| 12:58.11 | genr8_ | heres a giant guide https://wiki.ubuntu.com/rafaeldtinoco/QEMU-Vulneratilibites_and_Mitigations |
| 12:58.32 | ratrace | {g}: I do that for nginx, but quick google shows me Apache can do that with access logs too. I log response processing time, both total and specifically backend. That, in correlation with client-side (eg in firefox, developer mode, you can see various stages of request), you can get a much better picture of where the problem is |
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| 12:59.59 | genr8_ | actually im wrong again. Theres a feature called "CPU Model Host Passthrough" vs "CPU Named Model" https://qemu.readthedocs.io/en/latest/system/target-i386.html#two-ways-to-configure-cpu-models-with-qemu-kvm |
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| 13:00.04 | {g} | ratrace: I log %D. Not sure if that is of any help. |
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| 13:00.22 | ratrace | {g}: so you get logs showing how much time it took to service the request in total (from connect to close), how much of that was backend, how much of that was web server (up until first byte is sent), etc... |
| 13:00.40 | ratrace | {g}: but of course it is helping. you see exactly how much time particular stages take |
| 13:00.48 | genr8_ | if you are picking the names, you have to explicitly pick the IBRS name. if you are picking "passthrough" then you don't. |
| 13:01.15 | ratrace | for example, if apache does everything with 10msec, but total response time (which includes sending back to the client) is 1000msec, that means 990msec was in the network, sending back |
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| 13:01.25 | genr8_ | "-cpu host" |
| 13:01.29 | {g} | ratrace: You mean the %D number will not go up if the connection to the client is slow? |
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| 13:03.09 | ratrace | {g}: I guess you need mod_logio and %^FB https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/mod_logio.html |
| 13:03.23 | ratrace | yeah, %D is total response time |
| 13:04.39 | {g} | ratrace: So %D will not tell us if its the server or the connection. |
| 13:05.00 | ratrace | {g}: right |
| 13:05.05 | {g} | C'est la vie. |
| 13:05.15 | ratrace | {g}: but mod_logio will |
| 13:05.31 | {g} | A %D value of 20486 is 20 seconds? |
| 13:05.41 | {g} | No, that cannot be. |
| 13:05.50 | ratrace | it's microsecond |
| 13:06.03 | {g} | 1/1000000? |
| 13:06.04 | ratrace | so that's 20msec |
| 13:06.23 | ratrace | (or 0.020 sec) |
| 13:06.26 | {g} | So everything under 1000000 is under a second? |
| 13:06.34 | ratrace | right |
| 13:08.11 | {g} | Nice |
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| 13:10.38 | {g} | Maybe I will just ping some other server to see if the connection to the outer world is ok. |
| 13:11.26 | ratrace | {g}: and keep in mind that ICMP and TCP packets may be treated differently by the network |
| 13:11.51 | ratrace | so you migh want TCP "ping" (eg mtr-tiny can do those), coupled with iperf3 |
| 13:12.21 | {g} | ratrace: Yeah .. what would be the http equivalent of a ping... maybe just "time wget google.com"? |
| 13:12.43 | genr8_ | no |
| 13:12.59 | {g} | Why not? |
| 13:13.00 | genr8_ | it would be one GET request followed by a 200 HTTP OK reponse |
| 13:13.07 | genr8_ | the header only. |
| 13:13.07 | {g} | Sure |
| 13:13.15 | genr8_ | wget would transfer the whole file |
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| 13:13.23 | {g} | genr8_: Well, I think thats fine. |
| 13:13.28 | genr8_ | its not fine. |
| 13:13.53 | ratrace | a HEAD instead of GET would be close enough |
| 13:14.08 | ratrace | you get them headers but no content. them headers should fit into single tcp packet, so there. |
| 13:14.16 | {g} | I think GET is fine to measure if the net is congested. |
| 13:14.34 | genr8_ | its not fine. you dont want the content. |
| 13:14.44 | {g} | genr8_: Why not? |
| 13:14.51 | ratrace | still.. that's higher on the OSI stack so non-network processing is involved in that total time. not quite comparable to lower level ICMP |
| 13:15.26 | ratrace | {g}: and you can't measure network congestion with a single packet. you need flows, and correlate latency with bandwidth with packetloss |
| 13:15.58 | {g} | ratrace: I can run the "time wget ..." multiple times to get a feel. |
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| 13:17.23 | genr8_ | https://ops.tips/gists/measuring-http-response-times-curl/ |
| 13:17.27 | ratrace | {g}: I'd start with mtr and see if there's packet loss |
| 13:17.31 | genr8_ | https://dev.to/yuyatakeyama/how-i-measure-response-times-of-web-apis-using-curl-6nh |
| 13:17.50 | ratrace | doing a wget to a completely different seriver has zero value in measuring congestion to your apache server |
| 13:18.00 | {g} | ratrace: Why? |
| 13:18.20 | genr8_ | curl -o /dev/null -s -w {time_connect}:%{time_starttransfer}:%{time_total}\\n google.com |
| 13:18.56 | ratrace | {g}: because that other server can be 20 more hops away so what _exactly_ are you measuring? congestion _where_? |
| 13:19.09 | genr8_ | https://stackoverflow.com/a/22625150/1177904 |
| 13:19.34 | ratrace | also that curl test is bs. like genr8_ implied, getting back content includes server-side processing time (though HEAD may do that too) and there's no way to isolate it |
| 13:19.35 | {g} | ratrace: Google is probably answering from a CDN endpoint that is close enough to me. |
| 13:19.55 | ratrace | {g}: no. you're doing it wrong. |
| 13:20.00 | genr8_ | its better than wget. |
| 13:20.14 | {g} | ratrace: I want to know if my datacenter is shaping my traffic. For that, I think its fine. |
| 13:20.15 | ratrace | comparing apples to oranges, not controling variables, your metrics are worth zero. |
| 13:20.41 | ratrace | {g}: most certainly isn't. your DC could do _different_ QoS for different routes, eg. to google |
| 13:20.45 | genr8_ | one get request is not gonna tell that |
| 13:20.58 | genr8_ | you said yourself theres CDNs. and different routes. |
| 13:21.18 | {g} | There is always a "could". |
| 13:21.35 | genr8_ | internet exchanges and peering matters also |
| 13:21.52 | ratrace | {g}: but you have no way of knowing that, so your metric in _that_ respect is useles |
| 13:22.18 | genr8_ | you want something like PathPing, or MTR |
| 13:22.22 | {g} | ratrace: Well, then we have different opinions. I think we exchanged our argument.s |
| 13:22.27 | ratrace | eg. wget'ing 100b from google and wget'ing 100b from your own server, the difference in time tells you exactly nothing. |
| 13:23.02 | genr8_ | ratrace is right |
| 13:23.03 | ratrace | {g}: except this is not a matter of opinion but scientific methodology of isolating variables when collecting objective metrics. |
| 13:23.31 | ratrace | if you get 20msec in one and 40msec in the other you have NO other datapoint to tell why there's 20msec difference. |
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| 13:24.24 | {g} | ratrace: If I see that the time to wget google goes up 10x every time I see my pages take 10x longer, I can assume it is because of the network. |
| 13:24.43 | ratrace | {g}: no. it could be due to a situation in your kernel |
| 13:24.49 | ratrace | see? no datapoints to tell the difference. |
| 13:24.54 | ratrace | correlation != causation. |
| 13:24.59 | {g} | If google stays at ~10ms even when my own pages suddenly take 10x longer, I can assume it is not the network. |
| 13:25.18 | ratrace | quite the contrary, it could be the specific route to your server. no datapoint to tell otherwise. |
| 13:25.50 | genr8_ | thats why you want the ICMP ping, not a full HTTP request |
| 13:25.58 | ratrace | {g}: unless you sit on a backbone router, there's probably 5-10 hops between your machine and your server. more if your server is geographically distant |
| 13:26.43 | genr8_ | even if the server is fast, its gonna be way slower than typical network latency |
| 13:27.03 | {g} | Ok, so much about this. Thanks for the nice discussion, guys! |
| 13:27.33 | ratrace | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
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| 13:36.09 | hegemoOn | im just discovering this new nftable stuff for buster |
| 13:36.41 | hegemoOn | what if i just need to have an iptables rule activated at startup |
| 13:36.50 | hegemoOn | do i need to switch alternative to iptables ? |
| 13:37.18 | genr8_ | no |
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| 13:37.55 | ratrace | hegemoOn: by thefault the iptables interface uses nft in the backend, so you can still keep on using the iptables(8) command |
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| 13:38.41 | genr8_ | its backwards compatible |
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| 13:39.22 | genr8_ | you can run the command iptables-legacy without switching the alternatives |
| 13:40.26 | genr8_ | I assume just a single legacy rule will be fine. |
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| 13:41.16 | hegemoOn | ok |
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| 13:42.56 | genr8_ | Also this: https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Moving_from_iptables_to_nftables |
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| 13:43.42 | ratrace | genr8_: what's that ubuntu page actually saying, I'm not sure I get the context of why you posted it. does it mean native cpu in qemu-system won't actually expose all instructions to the guest? |
| 13:46.01 | genr8_ | yes. if you run qemu with the named CPU models, it won't. |
| 13:46.13 | genr8_ | you have to run it with the "Host passthrough" model, aka "-cpu host" |
| 13:47.09 | genr8_ | if you use the names, the non-IBRS is "legacy" and was not updated. a new Name was added for IBRS instruction support. (so as not to break peoples stuff) |
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| 13:49.01 | genr8_ | i didnt expect anyone to actually read the page |
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| 13:51.36 | genr8_ | read the link after that. qemu.readthedocs.io |
| 13:52.46 | ratrace | genr8_: but -cpu host does no filtering afaik, it's native CPU, no emul, no filter, no traps, right? |
| 13:53.00 | genr8_ | yes |
| 13:53.05 | genr8_ | nono |
| 13:53.24 | genr8_ | sorry i misunderstood. -host is still Virtualization |
| 13:53.47 | genr8_ | it just passes ALL the architecture flags directly through |
| 13:53.53 | ratrace | right, that's what I meant. |
| 13:53.59 | ratrace | it still _has_ to be vt-x |
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| 13:55.20 | zerocode | how can i purge file that does not exist and for purge? |
| 13:55.51 | ksk | zerocode: pardon? |
| 13:55.58 | greycat | if the file does not exist, it has already been purged, yes? |
| 13:56.08 | ratrace | is that like a zen question? if a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody around to hear it, did it make a sound? |
| 13:56.21 | genr8_ | ratrace, thats the first thing I thought of too ! |
| 13:56.36 | ratrace | :) |
| 13:56.40 | Haohmaru | ratrace of course it will make a sound |
| 13:56.53 | Haohmaru | unless it's vacuum forest |
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| 13:57.39 | genr8_ | i think its referring to schrodingers tree |
| 13:59.12 | zerocode | greycat yes only tells me to be reinstalled but it's nowhere |
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| 13:59.25 | ratrace | or definition of sound. is it sound only when you perceive the wave, or is wave itself called sound :) |
| 13:59.57 | ratrace | goes offtopic, slingshots around earth, breaks orbit, and lands back on topic. |
| 14:00.37 | genr8_ | zerocode, you need to stop leaving out words in your sentences |
| 14:01.06 | greycat | zerocode: start over. What are you trying to do? What error are you getting when you do it? |
| 14:01.27 | greycat | Don't call things "files" if they are packages. |
| 14:01.57 | zerocode | The package linux-image-5.8.10-zck needs to be reinstalled, but I can't find an archive for it. |
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| 14:02.08 | zerocode | --purge does not find the pkg |
| 14:02.18 | zerocode | and -r and remove |
| 14:02.19 | dupin | I have problems to open thunar |
| 14:02.24 | greycat | Didn't I tell you yesterday to run "dpkg --force-help"? |
| 14:02.33 | greycat | Run that, and read what it says. |
| 14:02.39 | greycat | Then apply the knowledge you have just gained. |
| 14:03.17 | dupin | similar things happened ib the past and with top command I saw I have 2 instances runing |
| 14:05.02 | dupin | now I don´t see thunar when I run top command so I don´t know what to do |
| 14:05.36 | dupin | yes, I tried from terminal but no joy |
| 14:05.44 | zerocode | man dpkg no |
| 14:06.03 | zerocode | --force-all |
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| 14:06.12 | ratrace | dupin: so what's the actual problem? |
| 14:06.23 | greycat | zerocode: show us the ACTUAL ERROR that inspired you to try to purge this package. Then show us the ACTUAL COMMAND that you typed when attempting to purge it, and the ACTUAL ERROR from that command. |
| 14:06.26 | dupin | I cann not open thunar |
| 14:06.37 | ratrace | dupin: try it from command line, see if it complains about anything |
| 14:06.46 | zerocode | there is no --forcehelp |
| 14:06.59 | ratrace | rofl |
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| 14:07.06 | greycat | zerocool: I never said --forcehelp. |
| 14:07.11 | genr8_ | you're right. its --force-help |
| 14:07.31 | dupin | ratrace, it just said it is timed out nothing else |
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| 14:07.42 | greycat | oh, he vanished. |
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| 14:08.05 | genr8_ | good. he has broken brain. purged too many brain cells |
| 14:08.08 | ratrace | I really shouldn't laugh. some people are genuinely dislexyc. not a laughing matter. but I can laugh at their choice to use text-only medium for help? yea, I can, can't I. |
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| 14:08.32 | ratrace | dupin: what has timed out? can you pastebin the actual output? |
| 14:08.33 | ratrace | !paste |
| 14:08.33 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
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| 14:10.08 | dupin | thunar |
| 14:10.08 | dupin | Failed to register: Timeout was reached |
| 14:10.25 | genr8_ | love linux. |
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| 14:10.57 | genr8_ | register with what... why would it say, that would be too easy. |
| 14:11.19 | genr8_ | my first guess is DBUS, second guess is window manager. |
| 14:11.26 | ratrace | dupin: there's a whole lot of results for that error message on google. see if it any of it helps |
| 14:11.36 | ratrace | genr8_: yea dbus probably |
| 14:11.37 | dupin | genr8_, I can not open thunar |
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| 14:11.52 | dupin | so how to fix it |
| 14:11.57 | ratrace | dupin: there's a whole lot of results for that error message on google. see if it any of it helps |
| 14:12.28 | genr8_ | Have you tried turning it off and then on again ? |
| 14:12.30 | ratrace | even bug #929490 |
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| 14:12.31 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/929490 in thunar (open): «thunar: Fails to start with "Failed to register: Timeout was reached"»; severity: important; opened: 2019-05-24; last modified: 2019-05-24. |
| 14:12.37 | dupin | ratrace, tnx I hope I will solve it with that |
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| 14:13.21 | genr8_ | "killall thunar" |
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| 14:15.35 | ratrace | genr8_: so literally the IT Crowd tagline solution :) |
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| 14:16.47 | dupin | genr8_, that command helped tnx for advice |
| 14:16.57 | genr8_ | ayy |
| 14:17.12 | dupin | bye to all of you |
| 14:17.22 | genr8_ | enjoy |
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| 14:22.39 | genr8_ | https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/ <--- giving $5 to anyone who summarizes all 87 sections and 1120 links for me |
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| 14:23.44 | ksk | genr8_: its is complex. |
| 14:24.40 | genr8_ | lol. now I see I may have left "summarize" too open to interpretation |
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| 14:30.40 | ratrace | na na na na! pay up! |
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| 14:32.44 | hegemoOn | interesting, i put a post-up myscript.sh to eth0 definition |
| 14:32.54 | hegemoOn | when i run myscript.sh by hand no issue |
| 14:33.05 | hegemoOn | when it's startup after reboot |
| 14:33.09 | hegemoOn | i goot an error |
| 14:35.25 | genr8_ | is there a hostname in there ? |
| 14:35.35 | ratrace | wonders if hegemoOn is gonna say what error that is, or we have to get our crystal balls out... |
| 14:36.38 | genr8_ | i found out the hard way that hostnames in iptables scripts cant be resolved on startup with no internet connection and cause resolve errors and cancel out the entire script from loading |
| 14:36.49 | jolt | I'm out of batteries on my remote mindreading cap, so I can't help either. |
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| 14:37.07 | fireba11 | jolt: :-D |
| 14:37.14 | genr8_ | tweaks knobs I think im onto something |
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| 14:37.33 | ratrace | wait, is there a reward if we guess it? |
| 14:37.47 | genr8_ | cookie |
| 14:38.17 | ratrace | like, http cookie or the thing cookiemonster is after? |
| 14:38.51 | genr8_ | chocolate one |
| 14:39.12 | genr8_ | google and facebook are the modern 2020 version of cookiemonster |
| 14:39.25 | ksk | genr8_: to expand on that: Have fun starting nginx, if it cannot resolve its upstream hostnames ;) |
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| 14:50.37 | hegemoOn | ratrace:sorry it's about a tc argument |
| 14:51.30 | hegemoOn | i do a "tc class add dev eth0 parent 1: classid 1:9 htb rate 1gbit" |
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| 14:51.41 | hegemoOn | and error is : illagal classid |
| 14:52.09 | hegemoOn | when i run the script after full boot and startup, in a shell, no error reported |
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| 14:53.31 | hegemoOn | genr8_:it's a combination between iptable rule to mark some specific packet and also implement some traffic shapping with tc |
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| 14:55.08 | ratrace | hegemoOn: first thing I'd look at is if a kernel module is missing and needs to be primed before you try that |
| 14:55.47 | hegemoOn | yes |
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| 14:59.55 | match_it | hi all. I'm trying to upgrade the system but there are some pkgs are corrupted - how to force reinstall or remove ? |
| 14:59.58 | match_it | thanks |
| 15:00.37 | match_it | ( phpmyadmin |
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| 15:00.38 | match_it | E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) |
| 15:00.38 | match_it | ( |
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| 15:01.14 | greycat | match_it: find the *first* error. |
| 15:02.16 | ivzhh | did you install any package through a raw deb instead of apt-get? |
| 15:02.31 | genr8_ | make: [Error 1] |
| 15:02.43 | greycat | ,v phpmyadmin |
| 15:02.45 | judd | Package: phpmyadmin on amd64 -- jessie: 4:4.2.12-2+deb8u2; jessie-security: 4:4.2.12-2+deb8u9; stretch: 4:4.6.6-4+deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 4:4.6.6-4+deb9u1; buster-backports: 4:4.9.5+dfsg1-2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 4:4.9.5+dfsg1-2; sid: 4:4.9.5+dfsg1-2 |
| 15:02.46 | *** join/#debian towo` (~towo@unaffiliated/towo/x-4064351) |
| 15:03.11 | greycat | (it's not in buster) |
| 15:03.37 | match_it | ivzhh, I "remember" yes but none of broken |
| 15:03.38 | genr8_ | that would be why :) |
| 15:03.52 | genr8_ | buster removed a lot of packages, that seems to be one of them |
| 15:04.03 | greycat | I'm also really suspicious of how the reported errors are truncated right where any useful information like the package version might appear. |
| 15:05.00 | ivzhh | agree with greycat, may need more error messages |
| 15:05.06 | genr8_ | you could remove the package for now. upgrade the rest of the system. then deal with it later. |
| 15:05.26 | *** join/#debian Sora (~Guest@unaffiliated/sora) |
| 15:05.42 | Sora | is there any point to swap space on a system with a lot of ram? |
| 15:05.56 | ksk | Sora: yes, see https://linuxatemyram.com |
| 15:05.59 | greycat | The package version number probably says something like "ubuntu" in it, which would be why a malevolent person would try to hide it while asking for help in the wrong channel. |
| 15:06.19 | ksk | Sora: Ignore that, gimme a second, wrong link.. |
| 15:06.33 | ksk | Sora: https://chrisdown.name/2018/01/02/in-defence-of-swap.html that one! ;) |
| 15:06.47 | jelly | Sora, sadly yes, the linux kernel is still a bit buggy when there's no swap at all |
| 15:07.00 | jelly | give it just a tiny bit like 64MB or 512MB |
| 15:07.10 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:07.13 | jelly | it helps in corner cases |
| 15:07.15 | cdown | Sora: Swap space and RAM are mostly tangential. Swap itself is more or less essential in any modern operating system, because you need the ability to promote forward reclaim for types of memory which are otherwise locked in |
| 15:07.16 | ratrace | lol! *and this |
| 15:07.44 | cdown | I'd recommend 512M+, more if you happen to have a lot of anonymous slack. |
| 15:07.57 | *** join/#debian AquaL1te (~AquaL1te@unaffiliated/aqual1te) |
| 15:08.07 | jelly | it should not be essential, that pretty much depends on the workload, but Linux is still buggy that way |
| 15:08.10 | ratrace | (not to mention you need swap if you want to hibernate) |
| 15:08.12 | Sora | the system has 488gb of ram and a 500G disk for the base OS, so how much swap? it's hosting vms |
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| 15:08.37 | ivzhh | in most situations, keep a swap is good. only occasion that explicitly disables swap is kubernetes |
| 15:08.42 | jelly | how did you arrive at 488GB and not 512GB? :-) |
| 15:08.51 | Sora | er it has |
| 15:08.54 | ratrace | GiB probs |
| 15:08.58 | cdown | jelly: Hmm, I could only think of completely facetious workloads which it wouldn't be necessary on. |
| 15:09.06 | Sora | 448gb |
| 15:09.07 | Sora | sorry |
| 15:09.07 | jelly | ivzhh, I'm having a lot of trouble with k8s nodes just because they disable swap |
| 15:09.27 | jelly | Sora, dunno, give it 1GB and call it a day |
| 15:09.46 | jelly | some tiny amount just to make kernel algos happy |
| 15:09.54 | genr8_ | id give it 5GB |
| 15:09.57 | ivzhh | jelly, I agree. OOM will be a big trouble. But k8s seems cannot handle the memory stats well on that. |
| 15:09.58 | cdown | jelly: The problem is, if swap gets full, it's the same as having no swap at all. |
| 15:10.00 | genr8_ | 1% |
| 15:10.01 | jelly | why 5? why 1? |
| 15:10.06 | ratrace | yeah, 5G is what I do too |
| 15:10.21 | jelly | cdown, I solve that by regular swapoff -a; swapon -a :-( |
| 15:10.38 | ivzhh | if you make the swap on lvm, then you can adjust later. |
| 15:10.41 | cdown | Sora: The kernel doesn't swap without reason, so if you have space, give it a few gigabytes. If you're space-constrained, then whatever isn't going to result in it filling up and thrashing. |
| 15:10.54 | ratrace | cdown: if swap gets full you need to rethink your configuration, RAM size or (over)commitment policy |
| 15:10.58 | Sora | nah I could give it 128GB or whatever |
| 15:11.01 | Sora | but I don't think there's a reason |
| 15:11.09 | cdown | ratrace: Or you need to rethink your swap amount. |
| 15:11.11 | cdown | jelly: lol, did you know why swapoff -a is so slow? I've still got that on my list to fix |
| 15:11.12 | jelly | because even with vm.swappiness = 1 the thing still manages to fill it up sometimes even if there should never be that much pressure |
| 15:11.12 | ratrace | cdown: no |
| 15:11.19 | cdown | ratrace: Do go on |
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| 15:11.31 | ratrace | cdown: if your system needs to swap in and out at, say, 32G, even with SSDs that's gonna slow down the system significantly |
| 15:11.46 | ratrace | the more swap you give it, the more pain it's gonna inflict in swapstorms |
| 15:11.54 | jelly | cdown, it is absolutely not optimized at all. I suspect the order it goes is basically random, and I/O are page-sized-tiny |
| 15:12.14 | jelly | cdown, it has worked this way since like kernel 2.4 |
| 15:12.17 | ratrace | so, you need swap just to take off the edge and satisfy buggy kernel mechanics that _rely_ on some of it existing. anything else needs changing your RAM size or how much you take from it |
| 15:12.25 | cdown | ratrace: If _that_ happens, it means you don't have enough memory. But there are plenty of other reasons you might run out of swap space. |
| 15:12.30 | cdown | For example, having tons of slack. |
| 15:12.35 | cdown | jelly: Oh, it's way worse than that. |
| 15:12.51 | cdown | jelly: We do an O(n^crazy) walk through each virtual memory area, for each page, with no caching whatsoever |
| 15:12.58 | cdown | That's why swapoff is often CPU-bound |
| 15:13.09 | ratrace | cdown: the only reason you're running out of swap space is that you have less memory than your applications want. |
| 15:13.12 | Sora | so large amounts of swap is actually bad? |
| 15:13.21 | ratrace | there is no other reason. any other reason can be distilled back to that one reason |
| 15:13.29 | jelly | cdown, so it does things in... memory address order? :-) |
| 15:13.39 | Sora | i know this isnt debian but on windows i remember i didn't have enough swap and the system used to run out of memory even though it was only using 50% of the actual ram. dont know if that applies to linux |
| 15:13.41 | cdown | ratrace: That's simply incorrect, I'm afraid. Applications and userspace memory allocators often simply do not know how much they need ahead of time. |
| 15:13.57 | cdown | In some cases that slack can be absolutely humongous, and tremendously cold. |
| 15:14.10 | cdown | jelly: In swap cluster order. Yuck. |
| 15:14.17 | ratrace | cdown: and linux won't do anything about it until the overcommitted memory becomes active pages |
| 15:14.20 | ratrace | so no, I'm not incorrect |
| 15:14.36 | jelly | cdown, then you investigate in a lot more details than I bothered to |
| 15:14.48 | cdown | jelly: Well, I work full time on memory management, I should know how this works :-) |
| 15:14.50 | jelly | I'm just amused by it by now |
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| 15:15.18 | cdown | ratrace: Huh? Active pages have reclaim protection, so that doesn't make much sense. |
| 15:15.29 | genr8_ | what about Idle page tracking ? |
| 15:15.41 | ratrace | cdown: I mean when overcommitted memory becomes active, then kernel will page out _inactive_ to make room |
| 15:15.43 | jelly | cdown, I'm also amused by how much zram+swap makes things better on desktops that already have enough RAM |
| 15:16.23 | ratrace | cdown: or in other words you can overcommit way more than physical RAM (hence the name), because at the end of the day it's all about how many pages are active and what the kernel thinks can page out as inactive |
| 15:16.32 | cdown | ratrace: Ok, but there can be absolutely humongous amounts which are only needed at some tiny fraction of the process lifecycle. |
| 15:16.34 | jelly | except if kernel bits do crazy stuff (nvidia.ko + zram+swap = bad things) |
| 15:16.49 | ratrace | cdown: well, yes |
| 15:17.03 | cdown | ratrace: So your statement that the reason cannot be "you need more swap" is simply incorrect |
| 15:17.16 | ratrace | jelly: or you throw in ZFS into the pot. THEN stuff gets extra crispy, juicy, interesting and mindblowing, at the same time! :) |
| 15:17.16 | dob1 | I am reading sed manual, I don't understand /pattern/d pattern is a regexp? |
| 15:17.17 | cdown | In many cases, slack for workloads can be in the order of tens of gigabytes. |
| 15:17.35 | ratrace | cdown: you mean "need more RAM"? that's what I said |
| 15:17.38 | cdown | And that's production workloads which are already optimised for physical memory allocation. For non-prod, it's definitely a lot worse. |
| 15:17.41 | genr8_ | sed /d is delete |
| 15:17.45 | jelly | ratrace, well ok, ZFS has Solaris VM bits bolted onto Linux, or something |
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| 15:17.53 | cdown | ratrace: 16:13:09 < ratrace> cdown: the only reason you're running out of swap space is that you have less memory than your applications want. |
| 15:18.04 | cdown | ratrace: These applications don't want that memory. Their malloc decided they should get it as part of the pool. |
| 15:18.18 | cdown | And that's often far unrelated to what the developer actually intended. |
| 15:18.23 | ratrace | cdown: by "want" I mean actively used pages |
| 15:18.37 | ratrace | I don't mean malloc 1PB on a 16GB system and use maybe 1GB of it |
| 15:18.55 | jelly | ratrace, then don't look at Gnome app VSS |
| 15:19.08 | ratrace | =) |
| 15:19.12 | jelly | they come close to that |
| 15:19.47 | genr8_ | just say Noo to GNome |
| 15:19.50 | cdown | ratrace: It's simply not true, I'm afraid. Using working set shrinking, we've reduced physical memory workingset by huge amounts with no penalty to memory pressure. |
| 15:20.03 | genr8_ | NO* |
| 15:20.22 | ratrace | cdown: I think we're talking about different things here |
| 15:21.17 | cdown | When I said "if swap gets full, you may need to rethink your swap amount", your reply was simply "no". I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same thing. |
| 15:21.38 | jelly | cdown, if you fix it I will have to buy you a beer, this was annoyed me for a decade or two |
| 15:21.43 | jelly | s/was/has/ |
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| 15:22.09 | ratrace | bottom line of what I'm saying is, if you have swapstorms then the simple asnwer is your applications want more active memory at any given moment than your physical RAM allows so the kernel is busy paging out what it thinks is inactive and paging back in what's faulted on |
| 15:22.22 | cdown | jelly: My swap rework patchset to fix swap behaviour hopefully will be out this half. I just need to make swap shrinking work. |
| 15:22.34 | cdown | I'll let you know when it's posted. I'm hoping around 5.11/5.12. |
| 15:23.30 | cdown | ratrace: Well, you mentioned swap storms a lot later than your original comment ;-) |
| 15:23.31 | ratrace | but anyway, in context of that, the larger the swap, the more pain there will be inflicted in such swapstorm situations. ideally you want only a bit of swap, enough RAM to accomodate active pages at any given moment, and don't overcommit unless you really know what you're doing and that most of overcommitted ram will be inactive and can be paged out in vast amounts. |
| 15:23.45 | jelly | sometimes there are other weird reasons, like NUMA making kernel decide it's faster to swap out than to access RAM connected to the other cpu socket |
| 15:24.10 | jelly | suddently your database fills up only half the RAM on a 2 socket machine, and the rest goes to swap |
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| 15:24.31 | cdown | ratrace: Thrashing is tangential to the page recycling amount, not the swap amount. |
| 15:24.37 | ratrace | cdown: well I'm a simple sysadmin, not a kernel dev, so it's possible I used slightly..... inappropriate or incomplete terminology. :) |
| 15:24.42 | cdown | s/tangential/proportional/ |
| 15:24.59 | genr8_ | what about this https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/mm/idle_page_tracking.html |
| 15:25.19 | genr8_ | The idle page tracking feature allows to track which memory pages are being accessed by a workload and which are idle. This information can be useful for estimating the workloadâs working set size, |
| 15:25.33 | ratrace | cdown: yes but the more swap there is, then more stuff can be paged out and if all that is suddenly reclaimed.... :) |
| 15:25.36 | genr8_ | The kernel internally keeps track of accesses to user memory pages in order to reclaim unreferenced pages first on memory shortage conditions |
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| 15:26.18 | cdown | genr8_: In general, IPT has been shown to not be super useful. It has really coarse granularity and is pretty delayed |
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| 15:26.47 | cdown | It *can* be useful in some niche circumstances, but in general quicker LRU-based approximations tend to work better |
| 15:26.51 | jelly | Sora, the 50% thing might be a similar NUMA issue if it was on a multi-socket machine? |
| 15:27.12 | genr8_ | ah ok. I have no idea, i just saw it yesterday when I was recompiling my kernel. |
| 15:28.07 | cdown | ratrace: That's not a problem unique to swap. The exact same thing happens with file caches. |
| 15:28.28 | cdown | And both can be inside critical sections. The point is, "if you can't tolerate a #PF, lock that" |
| 15:28.35 | ratrace | sure |
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| 15:29.29 | dob1 | sed '/192\.168\.1\.(215|191)/d' file.txt is valid ? |
| 15:29.50 | jelly | dob1, you need a sed -r to use (...|...) |
| 15:30.06 | greycat | sed -E might be a better choice, more likely to be what POSIX decides to accept in the future |
| 15:30.19 | jelly | much grep. very standard. |
| 15:30.25 | dob1 | ok got it thanks |
| 15:30.33 | genr8_ | rip grep |
| 15:30.49 | greycat | also, sed is a weird choice for this. just use grep -vE |
| 15:31.04 | jelly | (my Debian 6 sed doesn't -E) |
| 15:31.08 | ratrace | I was fed on and raised by pcre! everything else is meh |
| 15:31.08 | genr8_ | maybe he wanted to use -i |
| 15:31.16 | greycat | well he didn't use -i so there |
| 15:31.26 | jelly | maybe it's a minimal example |
| 15:31.33 | greycat | /msg greybot b9 |
| 15:31.34 | ratrace | there's no 's/...' |
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| 15:32.33 | genr8_ | thats what she sed |
| 15:32.34 | jelly | that's a reasonably BENIGN factoid for a greybot |
| 15:32.46 | jelly | hides |
| 15:32.46 | dob1 | greycat, in my example I was missing the -i option |
| 15:32.54 | genr8_ | calt it! |
| 15:33.05 | dob1 | I cannot do this with grep or am I wrong? |
| 15:33.23 | dob1 | yes genr8_ wrote it |
| 15:33.28 | jelly | not without an explicit temp file |
| 15:33.31 | greycat | well see, if you use sed -i then you get a whole *different* rant, but I'll spare you that and just /ignore now. |
| 15:33.34 | Sora | jelly: not multi-socket |
| 15:33.49 | Sora | just windows being wangblows, probably |
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| 15:35.04 | ratrace | under which circumstance would a file change inode but nothing else (mtime, size, shasum, ownership, xattrs)? or maybe that's somethign specific to ZFS (as it's ZFS it happened on, already asked in #zfsonlinux, no answer) |
| 15:35.57 | greycat | first thing that comes to mind: the file was deleted, and then restored from a really comprehensive backup |
| 15:36.31 | genr8_ | my first thought is the xattrs actually were changed, and then changed back. |
| 15:36.53 | genr8_ | wait no that wouldnt work |
| 15:37.00 | genr8_ | ignore that |
| 15:37.18 | genr8_ | greycat is right |
| 15:38.12 | ratrace | that didn't happen. I think it's due to ZFS and what arcane magick it does in the background when the fs is being snapshotted |
| 15:38.30 | dob1 | greycat, I was testing the command before using all the option I need for it... I don't deserve an ignore for this |
| 15:39.13 | genr8_ | for snapshots, it would be the same inode unless it was written over again |
| 15:39.25 | genr8_ | so something had to have been touched. |
| 15:39.34 | ratrace | or in other words, seems like it's not a filesystem agnostic behavior unless it's what greycat said, which isn't what happened, thus it must be zfs specific |
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| 15:40.08 | genr8_ | maybe you 'mv'ed it from one dataset to another |
| 15:40.15 | ratrace | genr8_: now _that_ is possible yes. it's roundcube temp files, and I have AIDE rules that exclude file addition, removal, mtime changes, and today I saw an isolated report that inode, and nothing else, changed on them |
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| 15:40.42 | ratrace | genr8_: no, didn't move them. possibly they were being modified at the time of (hourly) snapshot |
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| 15:51.40 | genr8_ | i wish i knew |
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| 15:52.34 | jelly | !qotd0 |
| 15:52.34 | dpkg | <Aleric> pumpkin0: I noticed that there are a LOT of capacitor on the the motherbord of 1200 micro Farad (6.3 V), that ALL have 'burst open' ;) .. stuff is coming out of it. I now think that it might be a reason for at least extra instability. |
| 15:53.07 | dvs | lol |
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| 15:55.25 | ratrace | sounds like the capacitors were hosting an ampere party and a lot more RSVP'd in |
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| 16:01.33 | jhutchins | Ah yes, the great counterfit capacitor catastrophy. I had one. |
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| 16:57.06 | neilthereildeil | hey guys |
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| 16:57.17 | neilthereildeil | i am testing RAM disk performance |
| 16:57.37 | neilthereildeil | dd if=/mnt/RAMDISK/file of=/dev/zero |
| 16:57.53 | neilthereildeil | 226MB/s off disk, and 235MB/s off RAMDISK, for the same file |
| 16:58.02 | neilthereildeil | why is there only a marginal speed increase? |
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| 16:58.23 | greycat | the file was cached when you did the read-from-disk test |
| 16:58.34 | neilthereildeil | lol |
| 16:58.36 | neilthereildeil | oh |
| 16:58.55 | neilthereildeil | wait, this is a 4GB file and i have 8GB RAM |
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| 16:59.13 | neilthereildeil | after i create the ramdisk, htop shows no space for cache |
| 16:59.22 | neilthereildeil | well, after i copy the 4GB file to the ramdisk |
| 16:59.35 | jelly | neilthereildeil, use conv=odirect to avoid the cache |
| 16:59.44 | neilthereildeil | also, hundreds of MBs/sec is not cache speed. |
| 17:00.02 | jelly | oops, conv=direct |
| 17:00.16 | ratrace | of=/dev/zero? hmmm |
| 17:00.32 | greycat | oh, good catch... |
| 17:00.39 | greycat | that's certainly not *helping* the benchmark |
| 17:00.42 | jelly | and it works! |
| 17:00.45 | neilthereildeil | i couldnt find dev/null... |
| 17:00.52 | greycat | you WHAT |
| 17:00.58 | ratrace | and on that note, I noticed /dev/urandom -> /dev/null is slower than I'd expect it. I could swear I saw it in hundreds of MB/s in previous years, now it's only 80 MB/s on the same computer with 4.19 |
| 17:00.58 | jelly | someone hid it |
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| 17:01.12 | neilthereildeil | ohh wait i see it now |
| 17:01.17 | neilthereildeil | hmm tab completion? |
| 17:01.31 | neilthereildeil | what happens if i wrote to dev/zero rather than null? |
| 17:01.49 | greycat | neilthereildeil: man 4 zero |
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| 17:02.45 | ratrace | so, should be the same. I just thought it's weird |
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| 17:03.30 | neilthereildeil | conv=direct makes fopen inside of dd avoid using bufering? |
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| 17:05.19 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: direct IO skips filesystem pagecache; that said, I don't know if ramdisks are subject to pagecache'ing at all |
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| 17:05.47 | ratrace | but dd'ing to or from the actual disk, definitely IS unless it's direct io. |
| 17:05.52 | jelly | hmm, maybe not, if your source is a tmpfs that resides in VFS anyway so it's kind of hard to skip the VFS |
| 17:06.17 | jelly | ramfs and tmpfs are, I think, basically just write cache without a backend |
| 17:06.36 | ratrace | (well tmpfs can be swap'ed) |
| 17:08.22 | neilthereildeil | whats the difference between ramfs and tmpfs? |
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| 17:09.52 | neilthereildeil | hmm dd with iflag=direct doesnt finish... |
| 17:10.26 | jelly | ramfs is stuck in RAM, tmpfs might end up on swap if needed |
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| 17:13.52 | neilthereildeil | why doesnt dd quit if i use iflag=direct? am i doing something wrong? |
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| 17:15.26 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: for which source file? |
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| 17:35.55 | TuxCrazy | how to install the latest liquorix kernel on Debian? |
| 17:37.15 | jelly | what is liquorix? |
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| 17:37.20 | jelly | !liquorix |
| 17:37.20 | dpkg | Zen is :)(:, or a school of Mahayana Buddhism, or the Zen kernel: a variant of the Linux kernel optimized for desktop systems, including code not present in mainline. Liquorix kernel image packages (http://liquorix.net/) are Zen-based and are not supported in #debian, use #zen-sources on irc.rizon.net instead. http://zen-kernel.org/ Not to be confused with <Xen>. |
| 17:37.58 | TuxCrazy | jelly, thanks. |
| 17:38.14 | jelly | de nada |
| 17:38.41 | jelly | often the bot knows more than people do |
| 17:38.51 | ochi | vaya que si ;) |
| 17:39.24 | jelly | reads curl 'https://liquorix.net/add-liquorix-repo.sh' | sudo bash and shakes head |
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| 17:43.37 | neilthereildeil | ratrace: i copied the 4GB file from the disk into the RAMDISK |
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| 18:05.36 | Streaker | Is this DVD image bootable? https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/debian-10.5.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso |
| 18:05.55 | greycat | Yes. |
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| 18:10.13 | dvs | Streaker: is the install for a laptop? |
| 18:10.32 | Streaker | dvs: no, in a VM. |
| 18:10.48 | dvs | ok |
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| 18:38.16 | sponix2ipfw | TuxCrazy: join me in the MX channel |
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| 18:40.36 | GNU\colossus | does Debian 10 for amd64 come with 32bit EFI loader binaries in defaullt install media? |
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| 18:45.15 | sponix2ipfw | Streaker: I normally use the net install image for VMs |
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| 19:29.55 | slanck | does anyone know how to get the virtual address from a struct page on Debian 8? I have been using page_to_virt() that works fine with CentOS but the same operations don't work on Debian 8 |
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| 19:30.54 | slanck | I am trying to do that manually by using gdb: (((unsigned long)(0xffffea0001d31200 - 0xffffea0000000000) >> 6) << 12) + 0xffff880000000000 |
| 19:31.10 | slanck | the command above work on CentOS 7 (3.10) but doesn't work on Debian 8 (3.16) |
| 19:35.10 | nvz | I'm not much of a programmer but that sounds like a kernel thing to me, if not a glibc thing |
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| 19:35.52 | greycat | it definitely sounds like a thing that #debian won't know how to help with |
| 19:36.22 | nvz | yeah well that too :P |
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| 19:38.23 | slanck | alright, thank you. I just thought there could be someone here that could give me any hint |
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| 19:47.49 | HelloShitty | sponix2ipfw: you around ? |
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| 20:31.25 | jelly | GNU\colossus, I think there were some separate images for the old macs requiring 32bit EFI, but it's possible those were added to default installer lately |
| 20:31.31 | ratrace | firefox-esr-78 landed in sid. yay... and stuff. |
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| 20:32.08 | ratrace | 78.3 I mean. "téh next esr bump" |
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| 20:37.29 | KOLANICH | Hi everyone |
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| 20:45.09 | phogg | ratrace: who's bumping Eric Raymond? |
| 20:47.10 | ratrace | perish the thought! I meant the feuerfox! |
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| 21:27.04 | Sora | can someone help please https://i.imgur.com/UfA740N.png |
| 21:27.09 | Sora | trying to install debian to raid-1 |
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| 21:31.02 | hmuller | Sora: what instructions did you use? did you use something similar to: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/SoftwareRaidRoot |
| 21:31.55 | Sora | yes but this menu doesnt appear https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/SoftwareRaidRoot?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=grub-install_sda.png |
| 21:32.08 | Sora | it just says about uefi then tries to install to dummy |
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| 21:35.32 | hmuller | Sora: what does it say instead of the expected? you say something about uefi ... |
| 21:36.34 | Sora | i tried installing manually but i get this error https://i.imgur.com/BtaoQxX.png |
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| 21:37.38 | BadPractice | hey |
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| 21:38.35 | BadPractice | i try to get my pocket book (pb632) to to sync with calibre but calibre does not see it. however it gets mounted like a flash drive |
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| 21:39.54 | jhutchins | !ig |
| 21:39.54 | dpkg | The Installation Guide for Debian 10 "Buster" can be found at https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/installmanual . See also <errata> and <buster release notes>. |
| 21:42.41 | Sora | i don't want to use lvm |
| 21:42.42 | Sora | do i need it? |
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| 21:44.22 | ornxka | The following packages have unmet dependencies: libc6-dev : Breaks: libgcc-9-dev (< 9.3.0-5~) but 9.2.1-8 is to be installed |
| 21:44.42 | ornxka | what do |
| 21:47.23 | jhutchins | ornxka: What did you try to do? How did you try to do it? What did you expect to happen? What happened instead? |
| 21:48.10 | ornxka | dist-upgrade on sid, via apt dist-upgrade, i expected it to complete successfully, instead it complaiend about that |
| 21:48.10 | ratrace | Sora: technically you don't. |
| 21:48.10 | BadPractice | https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118560 mentiones that it might be because the file browser of gnome claims mtp ownership before calibre and calibre is screwed |
| 21:48.22 | BadPractice | can i disable mtp temporarely somehow? |
| 21:48.23 | ornxka | also printed E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages. |
| 21:49.02 | ornxka | oh a bunch of stuff is "kept back" |
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| 21:50.01 | jelly | ,v libgcc-9-dev |
| 21:50.02 | judd | Package: libgcc-9-dev on amd64 -- bullseye: 9.3.0-18; sid: 9.3.0-18 |
| 21:50.21 | jelly | ornxka, which debian release is this supposed to be? |
| 21:50.36 | ornxka | its been so long i dont remember |
| 21:50.49 | jelly | if you're on sid, ask in |
| 21:50.51 | jelly | !debian-next |
| 21:50.52 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 21:51.00 | jelly | tell them all of this: |
| 21:51.01 | ornxka | os-release says bullseye/sid |
| 21:51.01 | jhutchins | BadPractice: you could try installing another desktop like XFCE. |
| 21:51.12 | jelly | !basic apt troubleshooting |
| 21:51.12 | dpkg | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 21:51.32 | jelly | ornxka, what "apt-cache policy" says is more useful. |
| 21:51.44 | ornxka | ah gotch |
| 21:51.45 | ornxka | a |
| 21:52.25 | jhutchins | !debian-next |
| 21:52.25 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 21:52.56 | jelly | yes, no need to show that in less than 5 minute intervals |
| 21:53.18 | jhutchins | ornxka: you may find more people with knowledge of sid packages and problems with them in that channel. |
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| 21:53.35 | jhutchins | jelly: Sorry, missed that you'd already posted it. |
| 21:53.45 | ornxka | ill give it a shot, tyvm |
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| 21:54.26 | jhutchins | jelly seems willing and able to help you, and the information he requested will probably be needed in -next too. |
| 21:54.58 | jhutchins | ornxka: It's pretty much expected that things like that will happen in sid, and the only solution is often just to wait it out. |
| 21:55.05 | ornxka | i was suspecting that |
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| 21:56.32 | jelly | well if you're on sid you're expected to know or be able to learn your way around and maybe fix things in ways that would not be recommended on Debian stable |
| 21:56.59 | jelly | like cherrypicking a snapshot from three days ago and downgrading a couple packages to make things work |
| 21:57.16 | ornxka | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/890453ca/ the information requested, if anyone is interested, ill post it in #debian-next too |
| 21:57.42 | jelly | but we try to avoid talking about those in here, because those solutions can be actively harmful for stable |
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| 21:58.26 | akp55 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:58.32 | adriangrigore | Hi, does anybody have idea what a "*" referer is in an httpd log file? |
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| 22:05.51 | Sora | hmuller this is the error https://i.imgur.com/d5K56k7.png |
| 22:05.54 | Sora | what do I do so it installs properly? |
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| 22:09.49 | hmuller | Sora: you are not expecting to boot other operating systems? |
| 22:09.55 | Sora | no |
| 22:10.22 | Sora | well yes |
| 22:10.23 | Sora | maybe |
| 22:10.27 | Sora | this is a server |
| 22:10.32 | Sora | dl380 g9 |
| 22:10.55 | Sora | does it need it for booting into system utilities |
| 22:12.52 | hmuller | I wouldn't force UEFI then if you expect to boot into those system utilities in the future |
| 22:12.58 | jelly | Sora, does your DL380 not have a hw raid smartarray controller? |
| 22:13.06 | Sora | i cannot use that |
| 22:13.20 | Sora | it does but i need it in passthrough mode |
| 22:13.30 | Sora | can't use both passthrough and hw raid |
| 22:13.43 | jelly | oh, did you already switch to hba mode |
| 22:13.47 | Sora | yes |
| 22:14.04 | Sora | so what do I install as, uefi or legacy? |
| 22:14.18 | jelly | both should work on a Gen9 |
| 22:14.44 | jelly | but I _think_ Gen 9 still defaults to legacy, and that works |
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| 22:15.40 | jelly | you will probably want to use the firmware images, to get the wired ethernet working during the installer run |
| 22:15.44 | jelly | !firmware images |
| 22:15.45 | dpkg | Unofficial <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. |
| 22:16.03 | Sora | ethernet works |
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| 22:16.30 | jelly | oh good. I thought those bnx2x need fw to work properly |
| 22:17.27 | Sora | oh they do for the flexlom |
| 22:17.28 | jelly | never installed linux on a controller in hba mode, it should in theory be very similar to installing on a machine with sata controller and disks |
| 22:17.32 | Sora | but i am using the on-board for installing |
| 22:17.45 | Sora | ok my existing system uses legacy so legacy it is |
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| 22:29.41 | Sora | now i get this error https://i.imgur.com/8iXPbFG.png |
| 22:30.18 | Sora | https://i.imgur.com/jg2PZaP.png |
| 22:30.20 | Sora | why is this so hard |
| 22:34.03 | Sora | is it just not possible to install debian in software raid 1? |
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| 22:43.22 | sponix | why does your OS need raid anyway ? |
| 22:43.58 | sponix | I would just regular ext4 the OS on an SSD and raid extra drives with something like mergerfs or zfs |
| 22:44.13 | Sora | so when the ssd dies my system doesn't die with it? |
| 22:46.57 | sponix | Sorry.. Can't speak from experience on this one. I've never done raid on the OS drives. Never thought my OS was that important |
| 22:47.44 | sponix | I just keep backups of my preferences, config, and data -- keeping a re-install down to a quick and easy task |
| 22:48.18 | Sora | it's not easy to just "reinstall" when the disk is dead and the server is sitting in a datacenter 500km away |
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| 22:54.59 | sponix | Sora: https://blog.sleeplessbeastie.eu/2013/10/04/how-to-configure-software-raid1-during-installation-process/ |
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| 22:55.10 | Sora | i followed that |
| 22:55.13 | Sora | guess we'll try again |
| 22:55.18 | sponix | Sora: that is OLD, but the concepts should be the same |
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| 23:50.41 | Sora | i figured it out |
| 23:50.45 | Sora | this is the correct partition layout https://i.imgur.com/e0bBoKL.png |
| 23:52.22 | dvs | !prize Sora |
| 23:52.23 | dpkg | gives Sora a medal. |
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