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| 00:13.31 | sorcerer | ooooooof :( |
| 00:13.51 | sorcerer | "*ERROR* radeon kernel modesetting for R600 or later requires firmware installed" |
| 00:14.00 | sorcerer | ive never installed drivers or firmware before eek lmao |
| 00:15.27 | dvs | !firmware iso |
| 00:15.27 | dpkg | Unofficial <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. |
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| 00:30.20 | sorcerer | dvs are those releases of debian with the firmware included? |
| 00:31.48 | LtL | sorcerer: yes they are. most firmware at least |
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| 01:04.39 | jim | sorcerer, were you gonna try installing debian? |
| 01:05.12 | jim | (on a machine with hardware that might need firmware) |
| 01:05.37 | sorcerer | indeed i am |
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| 01:05.47 | sorcerer | i got the firmware iso installing on that pc now |
| 01:05.50 | ryouma | that's only for when they need the frmwasre to boot right? for say audioi you can do it later i thinik? |
| 01:06.02 | jim | sorcerer, oh, you |
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| 01:06.13 | jim | 'are running the installer already |
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| 01:06.27 | sorcerer | yea i already grabbed the iso and am running the installer |
| 01:06.36 | sorcerer | i just passed the DE selection a lil bit ago |
| 01:07.26 | jim | cool... those "unofficial" installers are so because the firmware is "non free" (generally speaking) |
| 01:07.58 | jim | cg505_, are you in the basement of Evans? |
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| 01:26.22 | RadoS | ratrace, I have no "default install" but my own "minimal", which doesn't contain plymouth. |
| 01:28.07 | RadoS | ratrace, on system A "quiet" makes disappear both kernel messages and service startup, while on system B it affects only the kernel messages but keeps service startup showing. |
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| 01:29.18 | RadoS | Since the OS install is identical, it must be something hardware related... |
| 01:30.49 | RadoS | On A I had to change the default video driver from glamor to intel, because of glamor didn't funtion performantly. |
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| 01:32.21 | RadoS | -of |
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| 01:34.55 | jim | what's a good compositor to try, maybe one that works well with kde? |
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| 02:00.26 | somiaj | jim: kde doesn't come with its own compositor? xcompmgr is the one I know of, but looks comption is a fork which has some additional features (that is what I've used in fvwm) |
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| 02:07.52 | jim | somiaj, actually I'm given to understand that the window manager kwin -is- the compositor (which kinda means I dunno what a compositor is, so my intent is to try ed effects in the DE) |
| 02:08.41 | jim | somiaj, need to pause for about 30 mins |
| 02:09.18 | somiaj | yea some window managers are compositors, others are not, xcompmangr/comption are for window managers that aren't |
| 02:11.38 | somiaj | jim: https://userbase.kde.org/Desktop_Effects_Performance seems to be for kde, under desktop effects -> advanced settings might give you some options and there are some tips on how to configure it correctly |
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| 02:20.01 | Mazhive | it seems there is no answer yet i had it working very strange... i am getting pretty frustrating... now |
| 02:23.05 | somiaj | Mazhive: ghose here with experience with preseed files are a bit low, and I agree some documtation is a bit sparse on them too. Don't they produce a log? That is where I would start debugging. |
| 02:23.15 | Mazhive | i have search the net like crazy and i am getting a headache why it worked and now it is broken |
| 02:24.24 | Mazhive | the preseeed works great but i had some body shutdown the computer while configuring the pxe server and it doesn't work any more |
| 02:24.34 | somiaj | are you using a different install image since before it worked and now that it doesn't work? |
| 02:25.05 | somiaj | So there is an issue with the pxe server after this? |
| 02:25.27 | somiaj | again this is out of my expreience/knowledge, so not much real help I can do except maybe talk about it to see if something comes up you didn't think of yet |
| 02:25.34 | Mazhive | let me explain my pxe server deploys images that pxe serve does not work any more what ever settings i throw on it it just does not work |
| 02:26.40 | Mazhive | i am pulling my hair out at the moment and getting pretty bald right now |
| 02:27.01 | somiaj | And you said the pxe server was shutdown while you were modifing it? |
| 02:27.37 | Mazhive | yes so i had to revert to a an old file which ofcourse was a previous one not working |
| 02:27.50 | somiaj | is the pxe server some service, have you looked at the logs for this service? Checked that it opened up a port (or some method to talk to) on the network? |
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| 02:29.53 | Mazhive | i cant remember pxe server has logs it hands over the services to tftp-hpa after initial dhcp requests |
| 02:29.57 | Lady_Aleena | Hello. What do I run to find out if my system is picking up the microphone's connection? |
| 02:31.00 | Mazhive | and in between that its not working |
| 02:31.15 | Lady_Aleena | I ran lshw, but no microphone listed. |
| 02:31.19 | somiaj | Lady_Aleena: do you have pavucontrol ran |
| 02:31.31 | Mazhive | pxe client gets ip but stops after that |
| 02:31.32 | somiaj | Lady_Aleena: what type of mircophone is it? Is it a usb microphone or attached to your sound card? |
| 02:31.48 | Lady_Aleena | somiaj, yes, it doesn't have it on the input list. It is attached to my sound card. |
| 02:32.09 | Mazhive | it seems the handling of who has to do what gets lost |
| 02:32.13 | Lady_Aleena | somiaj, and it is a cheap microphone that came with one of my old old old computers a long time ago. |
| 02:32.27 | somiaj | Mazhive: Sorry can't be of much more help, maybe someoen with experience with pxe experience can help. Checking back during the week (monday) may also get more users with said exprience. |
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| 02:32.51 | somiaj | Lady_Aleena: well you will see the sound card not the microphone if it is just something you plug into the sound card. |
| 02:33.08 | somiaj | Lady_Aleena: output of arecord -l |
| 02:33.31 | Lady_Aleena | somiaj, in pavucontrol, the only input listed is Monitor of EMU<a very long string>. |
| 02:34.33 | Lady_Aleena | somiaj, http://paste.debian.net/1164817/ |
| 02:34.43 | Lady_Aleena | ^ arecord -l |
| 02:35.29 | somiaj | which card did you plug the microphone into, the intel or audigy? |
| 02:35.48 | Lady_Aleena | somiaj, Audigy |
| 02:36.10 | somiaj | Lady_Aleena: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio/Troubleshooting#Microphone |
| 02:37.02 | somiaj | seems to suggest if you add load-module module-alsa-source device=hw:2,x, where x is 0-4 (I'm seeing four different devices there, I would assume 0, but unsure which audigy device you plugged it into) |
| 02:37.40 | somiaj | but that seems to be suggestions to make pavucontrol (pulse) see the mic if it doen't |
| 02:39.50 | jmcnaught | "pacmd list-sources" should say if pulseaudio recognizes the mic is plugged in (under ports it will say available: yes) |
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| 02:46.38 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, either my eyes are worse than I think or there are no ports listed in pacmd list-sources http://paste.debian.net/1164818/ |
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| 02:49.29 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: weird on mine the built-in card does. Are you also using pavucontrol? What do you have the Audigy set to on the Configuration tab there? |
| 02:49.30 | Lady_Aleena | Should I use `pulseaudio -k ; pulseaudio -D` to restart pulseaudio or something with `systemctl restart ...`? |
| 02:50.04 | jmcnaught | I use "systemctl --user restart pulseaudio" (as user, not as root) |
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| 02:50.37 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, https://imgur.com/69qTr56l.png |
| 02:51.51 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: change it from "Analog Surround 5.1 Output" (which has no inputs) to another profile that has inputs. |
| 02:52.32 | ryouma | what do i run in debian to assign a command to a function key? i want to assign a script that kills firefox to a function key. |
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| 02:53.00 | joepublic | I use autokey for that |
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| 02:55.22 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, give me a moment to test to see if this worked. |
| 02:55.40 | ryouma | joepublic: what package is it in? |
| 02:55.56 | joepublic | maybe autokey-gtk |
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| 03:01.27 | somiaj | ryouma: depends on yoru windowmanager/de, most have a way to do that |
| 03:01.36 | ryouma | somiaj: fluxbox |
| 03:01.46 | ryouma | so i guess not |
| 03:01.51 | somiaj | ryouma: fluxbox will have ways to make keybindings, look it up, no need for some third party app |
| 03:01.55 | ryouma | i noticed there is an xbindkeys amybe it can do it? |
| 03:01.58 | Lady_Aleena | somiaj and jmcnaught, thanks for your help. I still can't get my mic to work, but it is probably tied to all my other audio problems that have followed me since wheezy. |
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| 03:02.07 | nvz | triggerhappy is another solution that works at a lower level and works even outside X |
| 03:02.12 | somiaj | ryouma: http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/docbook/en/html/c296.html |
| 03:02.13 | nvz | ,i triggerhappy |
| 03:02.13 | ryouma | somiaj: ok i ill wlook in the keys file |
| 03:02.14 | judd | Package triggerhappy (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: global hotkey daemon for Linux. Version: 0.5.0-1; Size: 31.2k; Installed: 120k; Homepage: https://github.com/wertarbyte/triggerhappy |
| 03:02.27 | nvz | it also allows different profiles and commands to toggle them |
| 03:02.45 | nvz | configuration is fairly straight forward |
| 03:02.46 | somiaj | Lady_Aleena: maybe try using the intel card instead of the audigy for this? |
| 03:02.51 | Lady_Aleena | I just tried recording something with Audacity, and it didn't record anything. |
| 03:03.27 | Lady_Aleena | somiaj, it is a pita to get behind my computer. I will just drop it. |
| 03:03.37 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: after changing the profile can you show us "pacmd list-sources" again? |
| 03:03.46 | nvz | Lady_Aleena: check your mixer, the recording device must be selected to be fed as input to an application |
| 03:04.19 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, http://paste.debian.net/1164819/ |
| 03:05.39 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: well now it says "available: unknown" under ports, maybe your sound card doesn't to plug detection |
| 03:06.12 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, probably not, the card is ancient. |
| 03:09.21 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, I have so much that doesn't work with my sound system. I have a speaker that won't play, I can't turn the volume below 20%, controlling the volume with my keyboard volume keys locks the button on my taskbar for several minutes, and now the mic won't work. |
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| 03:10.17 | ryouma | somiaj: thank you. is there any intelligence on what mod1...modn do? i get that mod1 is alt, is all. i think i want to assign ctrl alt f12 |
| 03:11.04 | Lady_Aleena | But XFCE doesn't come with its own sound controller like KDE did, so I have to make do with what little sound control I have with the very lackluster pavucontrol. |
| 03:13.12 | ryouma | hmm emacs captures some of these keystrokes... i have to choose something it does not capture? |
| 03:13.39 | nvz | triggerhappy is much lower level, as I said already |
| 03:13.56 | Lady_Aleena | Maybe when the next version of Debian comes out, I will pull the current hard drive out and install a fresh Debian on a new hard drive. |
| 03:14.46 | nvz | in fact if you need something more global and lower level than triggerhappy you're probably going to have to go directly into the kernel itself |
| 03:15.56 | jim | Lady_Aleena, ltns... how are you? |
| 03:18.14 | Lady_Aleena | jim, hello. I haven't been using the command line for much lately, so I've stayed out of Linux and Debian. Right now I am frustrated/annoyed with my system, but when am I NOT frustrated/annoyed with my system? How are you? |
| 03:19.47 | jim | taking a somewhat easy piano class, and a -hard- english class... |
| 03:20.17 | Lady_Aleena | jim, shall we go to offtopic? |
| 03:20.19 | ryouma | nvz: does it need a daemon? there is no man page, so i am just looking at th3e readme and it is not clear what to do to assign e.g. ctrl shift f12 to a command |
| 03:20.33 | jim | sure |
| 03:20.35 | nvz | ryouma: its thd is the executable, and yes its a daemon |
| 03:20.50 | nvz | ryouma: look in /usr/share/doc/ for example configs I believe are included |
| 03:24.04 | ryouma | the 1 and 2 stuff in the examples seem to say that this controls what type of keypress it is. but when you use + to combine them, you still only have one of those. so it is not clear what one would do with one modifier key and one function key. |
| 03:24.23 | ryouma | i read the readme and the examples |
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| 03:42.17 | nvz | I fail to see how this is unclear.. KeyA+KeyB tells it you want it to trigger on those two keys pressed together in combination |
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| 03:42.27 | nvz | the 1 and 2 is about the event, press or release iirc |
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| 03:43.51 | nvz | well 0 is release, 1 is press, 2 is held |
| 03:44.21 | nvz | held is referring to a sort of repeat interval kinda deal not holding as in a modifier |
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| 03:45.41 | nvz | https://github.com/wertarbyte/triggerhappy "For more information, consult the manual pages of "thd" and "th-cmd"." |
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| 03:59.47 | ryouma | no man page in debian |
| 03:59.57 | ryouma | but which key do the numbers refert o? |
| 04:00.00 | ryouma | to* |
| 04:00.17 | nvz | neither, to the entire macro |
| 04:00.21 | ryouma | all i want is shift ctrl f12 to do pkill firefox-esr for example |
| 04:00.28 | ryouma | huh |
| 04:00.37 | nvz | its a whole different field |
| 04:00.41 | nvz | it applies to teh entire line |
| 04:00.56 | ryouma | is 1 good enough? |
| 04:00.59 | nvz | if whatever you specify in the first field is held, its 2 |
| 04:01.39 | ryouma | i could do 1 then but i have to hold for what3ever i have set for xset r? |
| 04:01.39 | nvz | yes if you want it to happen on press |
| 04:01.48 | ryouma | 2* |
| 04:02.12 | nvz | !tias |
| 04:02.12 | dpkg | TIAS is "Try It And See". |
| 04:03.07 | ryouma | ok so sounds like i have to create a file, souce it using an option, and run the daemon, and ... nohup it? and then KEY_LEFTSHIFT+KEY_F122ado kill-firefox in the file? |
| 04:03.48 | ryouma | maybe i can do some kind of <() deal on the command line instead of a file to not keep everything in one place |
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| 04:04.55 | nvz | sighs and installs the package |
| 04:05.22 | nvz | Created symlink /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/triggerhappy.service â /lib/systemd/system/triggerhappy.service. |
| 04:05.26 | nvz | oh would you look at that |
| 04:05.39 | nvz | it even tells you when it installs it that it has installed a service for it |
| 04:05.44 | ryouma | i know nothing about systemd, sorry |
| 04:05.58 | nvz | systemctl status triggerhappy |
| 04:06.07 | nvz | systemctl enable triggerhappy |
| 04:06.16 | nvz | systemctl restart triggerhappy |
| 04:06.20 | nvz | etc.. |
| 04:06.32 | nvz | might wanna learn at least the basics |
| 04:06.44 | ryouma | so now it is even more confusing. the daemon is started upon installation, but i didn't specify the config file for it to read from |
| 04:06.51 | ryouma | which it says is necessary (or so it seems) |
| 04:07.09 | nvz | yes, well thats why you might want to restart the service or look at the status |
| 04:07.15 | ryouma | oh ok in etc |
| 04:07.25 | ryouma | which is reasonable |
| 04:07.37 | nvz | its a GLOBAL hotkey daemon |
| 04:07.43 | nvz | it works outside X or any user login |
| 04:08.35 | ryouma | well here goes nothing i will try that line there |
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| 04:17.18 | ryouma | "Device /dev/input/event5 not suitable." appears in the systemctl status |
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| 04:23.19 | c_nix | netinst of testing cannot locate iso |
| 04:23.26 | c_nix | i see its a recurring error |
| 04:23.31 | c_nix | over the years |
| 04:23.31 | somiaj | ryouma: look at xmodmap, they can be configured to be any key you want, but default alt(meta), shift and ctrl are not mod1-5, though one of them is the windows key by default |
| 04:23.40 | c_nix | wonder why |
| 04:23.48 | ryouma | nvz: i tried putting "KEY_LEFTSHIFT+KEY_F12 2 /root/sh/ado kill-firefox" in triggers.d/kill-firefox, then in case it helps"systemctl restart triggerhappy", then had that ado script write to /root/triggerhappy to show the result, then held down shift f12 for a few seconds. the file was not created. |
| 04:23.52 | somiaj | c_nix: how do you copy the iso to your usb drive? |
| 04:23.57 | c_nix | dd |
| 04:24.01 | c_nix | bs=1M |
| 04:24.07 | c_nix | too big? |
| 04:24.31 | somiaj | I just use cp, it has nicer defaults, but that shouldn't be an issue. That is a common error that one gets when they use tools like unetbootin |
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| 04:24.57 | somiaj | anyways two comments 1) testing support is in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net, and 2) testing is usually best installed using the stable installer then upgrading |
| 04:25.00 | somiaj | !testing installer |
| 04:25.01 | dpkg | Repeat after me: the testing installer is for testing the <installer>, not for installing <testing>. To install testing, do a minimal installation using the <stable> installer and ask me about <stable->testing>. Installer bugs should be filed against the debian-installer pseudopackage. https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ |
| 04:25.12 | c_nix | so devs failed to make proper img? |
| 04:25.39 | nvz | ryouma: and what do you suppose the permissions are on /root/ ? |
| 04:25.40 | somiaj | could be, the testing installer is know to be buggy, though it isn't as buggy as it use to be, it has never been the suggested way to install testing |
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| 04:26.00 | c_nix | i see |
| 04:26.18 | jmcnaught | c_nix: did you copy the image to a partition or directly to a device? |
| 04:26.31 | nvz | ryouma: nobody 10581 0.0 0.0 5080 2720 ? Ss 00:24 0:00 /usr/sbin/thd --triggers /etc/triggerhappy/triggers.d/ --socket /run/thd.socket --user nobody --deviceglob /dev/input/event* |
| 04:26.36 | c_nix | as i said |
| 04:26.38 | c_nix | i did dd |
| 04:26.41 | nvz | ryouma: would you suppose a user called "nobody" |
| 04:26.50 | nvz | has permissions to write the superuser's homedir? |
| 04:27.20 | c_nix | dd ifblabla of=/dev/sd0 (under freebsd) bs=1M |
| 04:27.39 | ryouma | i see |
| 04:27.43 | ryouma | you are fond of socratic dialog :/ |
| 04:28.18 | nvz | ryouma: since you seem to lack the basic knowledge I had given you credit for, lemme let you in on this bit of info.. typically dameons like this that start via systemd have a file to override their defaults.. in /etc/default/ you may want to have a look at /etc/default/triggerhappy |
| 04:28.21 | c_nix | i dunno how to answer it in more details |
| 04:28.56 | ryouma | nvz: doesn't seem to work for /tmp either |
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| 04:29.17 | nvz | ryouma: heh.. who do you think "nobody" is? |
| 04:29.25 | jmcnaught | c_nix: exact commands help, but you should probably bring your testing questions to OFTC network #debian-next channel |
| 04:29.48 | ryouma | nvz: ? |
| 04:30.00 | ryouma | nobody can't write to /tmp? |
| 04:30.08 | ryouma | my deepest apologies for lacking the knowledge you had given me credit for |
| 04:30.10 | c_nix | dd if=boot.img od=/dev/sd0 bs=1M |
| 04:30.16 | c_nix | *dd |
| 04:30.22 | c_nix | *of |
| 04:30.28 | c_nix | not od |
| 04:30.42 | c_nix | was done under freebsd |
| 04:31.23 | nvz | ryouma: try to su nobody |
| 04:31.43 | somiaj | it might just be bad testing images, but the install guide recommends cp as it has nicer defauts, but this shouldn't be an issue. Also make sure you run sync when done |
| 04:31.46 | nvz | ryouma: in fact, think of anything you can do to someone, and try do that to nobody and see how that works out for you |
| 04:32.00 | nvz | its called nobody for a reason |
| 04:32.50 | nvz | ryouma: take my advice, have a look at /etc/default/triggerhappy |
| 04:33.31 | nvz | ryouma: if you want to do something that requires permissions of /somebody/ then dont run it as _nobody_ |
| 04:33.41 | somiaj | nvz: they really don't need that if running fluxbox, and probably should just use fluxbox to make keybindings |
| 04:34.21 | somiaj | ryouma: anyways, I would just use fluxbox's key bindings, no need for a thrid party app just for keybindings |
| 04:34.44 | nvz | somiaj: idk, all I know is I suggested a hotkey system I know to be very flexible and that supercedes most everything.. wms, xsessions, userlogins.. |
| 04:34.59 | nvz | they seemed to indicate that hooking x layers was not sufficing for their needs |
| 04:35.33 | somiaj | Might be nice if you wanted something that is independent of the wm, but in most cases wm bindings give you access to the wm features more directly |
| 04:35.38 | ryouma | i changed tghe /etc/default settings to retain root and it still doesnot work |
| 04:35.54 | nvz | ryouma: did you restart the daemon? |
| 04:36.11 | somiaj | independent: don't message people links. |
| 04:36.38 | ryouma | nvz: yes |
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| 04:37.07 | nvz | ryouma: did you check the status of the daemon, which typically includes its log output? |
| 04:40.59 | ryouma | somiaj: i prefer something that will work when the system is overloaded and keys are almost not working at all, and i like the idea of working in the console also in case i am there and not in x, and also if i switch wm some day, and i like the idea of holdingit down for a bit before it will work (for safety). BUT i will use whatever works at this point. i decided to forget about the to-me-inscrutable modn syntax |
| 04:40.59 | ryouma | and use shift instead, so shift f12 will work (dangerously). i will possibly kill firefox by accident as a result, but it is a start. if i figure out which mod is control, i will add that! thank you for the polite and useful set of tips. |
| 04:41.26 | ryouma | nvz: the status does not include logs. it does have the error message i reported above. |
| 04:42.27 | ryouma | namely Device /dev/input/event5 not suitable. |
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| 04:49.39 | c_nix | ok it seems i cannot make proper boot media under freebsd i rewrite it again and same issue and thats 6 months old image |
| 04:49.51 | nvz | ryouma: seems that the systemd unit doesnt respect /etc/default/triggerhappy |
| 04:50.10 | nvz | ryouma: in my testing setting user there didnt change who it was actually running as |
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| 04:50.29 | nvz | I don't know enough about systemd to tell it to regenerate from the init.d script, but I do know you can manually edit the service file |
| 04:51.03 | ryouma | so it is a bug? |
| 04:51.09 | nvz | ryouma: you can edit /lib/systemd/system/triggerhappy.service and do systemctl daemon-reload and systemctl restart triggerhappy |
| 04:51.24 | nvz | ryouma: might be, not sure.. I'd file it against triggerhappy either way if you care to, yes.. |
| 04:51.33 | ryouma | and then upon a dist-upgrade i would need to edit again? |
| 04:51.38 | c_nix | just avoid systemd - problem solved |
| 04:51.39 | ryouma | i think i will pass if so |
| 04:52.02 | nvz | ryouma: however I tested writing to /pressed after editing the service file and verifying the daemon was actually running as root, and it worked |
| 04:52.13 | nvz | ryouma: I simply used touch /pressed |
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| 04:52.41 | nvz | ryouma: the key still had the effect of the focused app in X, but triggerhappy got it first and did what it was supposed to |
| 04:53.07 | nvz | ryouma: i.e. the key still did what it normally would with whatever was on the screen, but triggerhappy did its part |
| 04:54.39 | ryouma | somiaj: control shift might work; i will try that at some point when i am not exhausted. again thank you. |
| 04:56.51 | jmcnaught | Shouldn't be editing files in /lib/systemd/ they are owned by packages and will be overwritten during upgrades. Files in /etc/systemd/ take priority over files in /lib/systemd/. There's also "systemctl edit foo.service" which opens an editor and saves the file as /etc/systemd/system/foo.service.d/override.conf ("man systemd.unit") |
| 04:58.28 | ryouma | jmcnaught: thanks. too exhausted to try, but have made note that maybe i can edit to get it to work. |
| 04:58.31 | jmcnaught | that override.conf file is a "drop-in", you can use it to override just certain directives instead of replacing the whole file from /lib/systemd |
| 04:58.48 | somiaj | (the only thing I wish systemctl edit did was show the default options so you knew which ones to change -- end up having to read the service in another terminal as well, but the override idea is nice) |
| 04:59.08 | somiaj | maybe have them all commented out so you only uncomment what you want to override |
| 04:59.50 | jmcnaught | yeah I think it would be more intuitive if it opened the unit file in the editor. Saving that (edited) file in /etc/systemd/system/foo.service.d/bar.conf would still work I'm pretty sure. |
| 05:00.46 | somiaj | like only save a diff (though that might be limiting). I understand the power of the overrides, allow system updates to take effect if they aren't overriden, but I find it confusing to use in practice. |
| 05:01.10 | somiaj | hence why I was thinking comments, the editor could strip them out before saving the file. |
| 05:02.13 | jmcnaught | Well you can also use drop-in overrides for systemd conf files like logind.conf, but I just copy the original default logind.conf to /etc/systemd/logind.conf.d/local.conf and edit it there. |
| 05:02.31 | somiaj | jmcnaught: the only reason they don't save the whole file is it allows system updates to take effect if only some small part was override (my understanding) |
| 05:03.14 | ryouma | so it's in sections or something? |
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| 05:04.11 | jmcnaught | So that your local override drop-in is not blanket overriding everything including options you didn't intend to be different from default that have changed in the new version. |
| 05:04.14 | somiaj | ryouma: basically you can only override part of the unit file instead of have to matain your own full unit file. It is a useful idea, just a pain to actually use without knowing systemd inside and out (for knowing what overrides to write out of the box) |
| 05:04.48 | somiaj | not having a copy of the unit file while you are editing just means you need another terminal for most users. |
| 05:05.15 | nvz | filed a bug |
| 05:05.34 | nvz | goes to bed |
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| 05:06.38 | nvz | afaik other daemons respect /etc/default/ when run from systemd #971064 fwiw |
| 05:07.00 | nvz | judd won't be aware of it for awhile, but thats the number in my configurmation email |
| 05:07.44 | nvz | seems like this just wasnt fully updated to work when ran from systemd as it just sorces that /etc/default/triggerhappy from the init.d script which is superceeded by the service file |
| 05:12.46 | jmcnaught | looks like the triggerhappy.service unit file is missing EnvironmentFile=-/etc/default/triggerhappy under the [Service] section, which could of course be put into a drop-in. |
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| 05:47.48 | ryouma | i am still unclear on what /etc/default does (at least, why it isn't just something in /etc/whateverprogram). i understood it at one point, i think. |
| 05:48.20 | ryouma | also, i noticed that there is a magic sysrq facility that is enabled by default on debian there. i wonder if that can be useful in low memory cases? |
| 05:48.43 | ryouma | the url that it points to is a 404 however which is not encouraging: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysrq.txt |
| 05:48.49 | nvz | the files in /etc/default are suppose to be global defaults for things that are started automatically by the system |
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| 05:49.30 | ryouma | why not just have /etc/triggerhappy/global-default-for-daemon.txt? |
| 05:50.07 | nvz | jmcnaught: I wasnt sure how something like that could be achieved in systemd, if you could append the bug report I filed.. if not I'll try remember to test it and look into it later |
| 05:50.22 | nvz | #971064 |
| 05:50.46 | nvz | apparently judd still isnt aware of it yet |
| 05:51.33 | nvz | its been 45min now .. idk what the deal is with judd not seeing newly filed bugs |
| 05:51.40 | somiaj | files in /etc/default were kinda a hack to put configurable stuff for sysv init.d scripts without having to edit the whole script. With systemd there really isn't a need for it, just make a local overide to the unit file. |
| 05:52.10 | somiaj | judd probably only updates the database it uses once a day or so. |
| 05:52.29 | nvz | scraping rather than looking up on demand seems wasteful |
| 05:53.07 | nvz | and the local override thing seems far more complicated than the maintainer putting somehing in /etc/default where people can easily find and modify it |
| 05:53.36 | somiaj | only because that is what many older users are use to, 'systemctl edit unit' and then put the right info is quite simple |
| 05:53.54 | nvz | hmm.. |
| 05:54.37 | somiaj | the only reason to really keep files in /etc/default is if you want a way that works with both sysv and systemd (or other init systems). Some packages will use this, but not all. |
| 05:54.40 | nvz | the nice thing about the stuff in /etc/default is it often has a template and commentary for the kinds of things you'd want to change |
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| 06:32.11 | bigfluff | forgive me debian, as i have sinned |
| 06:33.02 | bigfluff | for some reason my clean install process involves: 1) backing up files, 2) installing a new distribution, 3) regretting #2 and re-installing debian |
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| 08:04.59 | mesaboogie | OS, a.k.a. Win-key |
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| 08:05.16 | mesaboogie | sorry |
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| 08:12.07 | Guest6262 | Debian buster has a GUI-configuration for wake on lan. Technically it should work if i check the magic-box under "Ethernet" in "Editing <connection-name>", right? |
| 08:12.34 | Guest6262 | (with etherwake on the remote machine) |
| 08:13.10 | Guest6262 | (using mate desktop) |
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| 08:19.29 | genr8_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:19.51 | genr8_ | your BIOS has to support it and have the option enabled too |
| 08:21.08 | Guest6262 | genr8_ ok... i'm looking for a manual for my mainboard right now. Are my machines on OSI Layer 2 when they are connected over a modem/router on the same subnet? |
| 08:21.32 | genr8_ | um |
| 08:21.43 | genr8_ | you mean the router is in between them ? |
| 08:22.23 | genr8_ | a router is layer 3, if thats what you're asking. |
| 08:22.36 | genr8_ | a switch is layer 2 |
| 08:23.01 | flayer | if the cable is plugged in on both ends they are connected |
| 08:23.22 | Guest6262 | genr8_ so if my modem has a built in switch they are on OSI 2? |
| 08:23.34 | flayer | yes |
| 08:23.38 | genr8_ | yes |
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| 08:25.17 | Guest6262 | hmm... Scince the only relateable BIOS-Option (Power on by PCI Devices) is enabled i guess it's the router that blocks the magic packets somehow |
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| 08:28.15 | ratrace | RadoS: and both are otherwise Debian Buster installations with systemd? |
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| 08:28.36 | Guest6262 | ratrace the sender is arch |
| 08:28.55 | Guest6262 | oh sry |
| 08:29.00 | genr8_ | well, no, power on by PCI devices doesnt necessarily mean Wake on Lan, it could just be the computer doesnt support it |
| 08:29.26 | Guest6262 | ok thx |
| 08:30.37 | genr8_ | you could just plug them in together and find out |
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| 08:35.34 | flayer | get an ethernet pci card |
| 08:35.40 | flayer | trick the bastards! |
| 08:36.16 | Guest6262 | i don't have that much possibilities to do so but i might have to try |
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| 09:50.01 | Jemt | Hi. OpenDKIM fails on reboot, but works fine when restarting it using 'systemctl restart opendkim'. /var/log/mail.err and mail.info contains no errors. Can someone give me a couple of ideas on how to identify the cause of the problem ? |
| 09:50.35 | Jemt | It "feels" like OpenDKIM is being started too early - perhaps something is not ready yet |
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| 10:00.44 | Jemt | Weird. I was able to resolve the problem with OpenDKIM failing on boot by making it start after MariaDB. I simply altered '/etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/opendkim.service' - i added "mariadb.service" to the After parameter: After=network.target nss-lookup.target mariadb.service |
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| 10:02.25 | Jemt | I'm not sure it is wise to modify configuration files owned by the package |
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| 10:52.29 | Franciman | Hi |
| 10:52.42 | Franciman | is there a way to get all the recommended packages for a given package? |
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| 10:56.26 | reith | Hi. if I want install some script in my package that is not intended to be executed directly by user, but shipped services i put in my package, where should i install them? the closest thing i find is to include them in examples which goes to /usr/share/<pkg>/doc/examples but mine actually is not doc related :) |
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| 11:12.21 | NetTerminalGene | shouldn't debian remove old kernels after updating new one? my buster doesn't remove old kernels |
| 11:13.10 | Miles8of9 | just remove them by hand yourself.... i did it this morning |
| 11:13.35 | oxek | NetTerminalGene: sudo apt autoremove |
| 11:13.37 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: no, you'll have to, eg., apt autoremove |
| 11:13.44 | oxek | it keeps two most recent kernels |
| 11:13.53 | ratrace | it's a good thing also, as it allows you to roll back into previous kernel if the new one doesn't boot |
| 11:14.19 | NetTerminalGene | pl |
| 11:14.20 | NetTerminalGene | ok |
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| 11:14.50 | NetTerminalGene | i can't autoremove. long story |
| 11:15.35 | ratrace | I'm curious, why not? |
| 11:15.48 | oxek | in related news, my 512M /boot partition is too small nowadays to hold 3 kernels |
| 11:16.01 | oxek | so probably need to use 1G from now on on new installs |
| 11:16.21 | NetTerminalGene | i upgraded to buster from stretch. now it wants to remove core necessary packages |
| 11:16.44 | oxek | NetTerminalGene: that's unlikely |
| 11:17.03 | NetTerminalGene | it happens, man |
| 11:17.05 | oxek | apt will not remove essential, required, important or standard packages just like that |
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| 11:17.17 | NetTerminalGene | it supposed to |
| 11:17.32 | NetTerminalGene | but it wants to remove |
| 11:17.37 | oxek | can you give us an example package that apt would try to remove if you do apt autoremove? |
| 11:17.57 | NetTerminalGene | gnome-shell |
| 11:18.06 | NetTerminalGene | networkmanager |
| 11:18.17 | ratrace | oxek: weird. I have two kernels, total space used 119M. surely third would be +50% of that? |
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| 11:18.41 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: but OLD versions of them, right? |
| 11:18.54 | NetTerminalGene | no. current ones i think |
| 11:18.56 | oxek | ratrace: I have large initrd due to using lvm + luks with some special stuff |
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| 11:19.20 | flayer | would i need to hang onto old versions of gcc/cpp for any particular reasons? |
| 11:19.43 | ratrace | oxek: oh |
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| 11:20.08 | ratrace | I don't do lvm, just luks + zfs + btrfs, and that comes up to 119M for two kernels/initramfses/configs |
| 11:20.47 | oxek | ratrace: I could probably play around with it to make it smaller, but it's simpler to just make /boot 1G instead |
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| 11:20.59 | oxek | ubuntu makes it 1G now, don't they? |
| 11:21.13 | oxek | or redhat, I forget |
| 11:21.22 | oxek | debian should probably follow |
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| 11:26.43 | another | i've been doing 1G for /boot for a while now. it's way less then 1% of the usual disk size and hard to grow later |
| 11:27.15 | another | except on VMs. those i can grow if necessary |
| 11:27.39 | oxek | NetTerminalGene: do you have task-gnome-desktop installed? |
| 11:28.39 | NetTerminalGene | yes |
| 11:28.51 | oxek | another: I've been thinking of making /boot part of lvm, or making it btrfs instead of ext2 |
| 11:28.53 | oxek | maybe next time |
| 11:29.04 | oxek | NetTerminalGene: that's really strange then |
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| 11:29.57 | another | sure, that's also a way. but i usually have my LVM in LUKS. |
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| 12:33.08 | RadoS | ratrace, correct. |
| 12:33.43 | RadoS | I use the same install routine/package selection for both. |
| 12:35.49 | RadoS | ratrace, it's only this 1 system dropping the service messages, with system C it works OK, too. |
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| 12:37.44 | RadoS | Just for comparison, can anyone see the service startup messages on boot on console with "quiet" boot param to drop the kernel messages? |
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| 12:38.52 | ratrace | shouldn't be possible, as the flag is read by systemd and it supresses its output if it's there |
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| 12:39.55 | RadoS | ratrace, hmm, so seeing them is the bug not missing them?! ;-/ |
| 12:40.18 | ratrace | RadoS: with "quiet" in the kernel command line? I suppose so. |
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| 12:40.26 | RadoS | What would be the correct setup to drop the kernel messages but keep service startup/systemd? |
| 12:41.36 | ratrace | RadoS: you sure you have that flag in correct place? should be on the line linux /boot/vmlinuz/... ro quiet in the grub menu entry, when you edit it with 'e' |
| 12:42.01 | ratrace | OR permanently set via /etc/default/grup, option GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX{_DEFAULT}="quiet" |
| 12:42.33 | RadoS | GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet... |
| 12:42.51 | RadoS | And it is there at boot time. |
| 12:43.26 | RadoS | When I removed it manually once for testing with 'e', the messages appeared (along with kerne). |
| 12:43.27 | ratrace | RadoS: you can silence only the kernel messages with sysctl kernel.printk but I don't know if that's effective within intramfs from the beginning |
| 12:43.44 | ratrace | RadoS: yes, removing "quiet" would start showing kernel and systemd messages on boot |
| 12:43.57 | ratrace | having quiet and still seeing them should not be possible |
| 12:43.58 | RadoS | Maybe I should file ticket. |
| 12:44.38 | RadoS | But I don't want to _lose_ that, but have it "back" for the failing system. :-( |
| 12:45.09 | ratrace | not sure I understand. you want kernel + systemd messages displayed? |
| 12:45.19 | RadoS | No, just systemd, not kernel. |
| 12:45.44 | RadoS | kernel is too noisy, scrolls too fast to be useful to notice problems. |
| 12:46.31 | ratrace | then I think you can remove "quiet" and adjust dmesg/printk log level with loglevel=N kernel command line option |
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| 12:47.24 | ratrace | https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.19/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html?highlight=loglevel |
| 12:47.27 | RadoS | ratrace, even if that's the "right" way to achieve what I want, still it would be nice to have all 3 systems behave consistently. ;-) |
| 12:48.01 | ratrace | RadoS: and all three systems have exactly the same grub menus + sysctl.conf ? |
| 12:48.18 | ratrace | exactly the same, save UUIDs of course, I'm talking kernel options |
| 12:48.19 | RadoS | ratrace, yep, & thanks for the lin. |
| 12:48.53 | ratrace | RadoS: maybe you think you do but you don't really? updated grub and kernel initramfs after changing relevant files? |
| 12:49.04 | ratrace | compared /boot/grub/grub.cfg between them ? |
| 12:49.39 | RadoS | Yes, after you suggested to me removing the "quiet" for crosschecking. |
| 12:50.09 | ratrace | what are other differences between the systems? plymouth installed? which gpu? |
| 12:50.18 | ratrace | efi vs bios/legacy boot? |
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| 12:54.49 | RadoS | all are 32-bit legacy boot, no software difference except for hardware dependencies, which primarily is the gpu: 1 ati OK, 1 Intel(R) 945GM OK, 1 Intel(R) GM45 Express |
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| 12:55.17 | RadoS | ... gm45 express fails. |
| 12:55.47 | RadoS | X was originally running with the glamor driver, which I had to replace with the intel one. |
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| 12:56.52 | RadoS | ... for the gm45 express |
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| 13:00.07 | reith | i'm trying to use substitution patterns in my packee's install file but neither of these directives expand: var/lib/${PKGNAME}, var/lib/${env:PKGNAME}, var/lib/${DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH}. install have `#! /usr/bin/dh-exec` and I exported PKGNAME in rules.. i just see files being installed in /var/lib/${<whatever>} :\ |
| 13:00.18 | reith | s/packee/package |
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| 13:05.27 | ratrace | RadoS: ideally you'd isolate and reproduce the bug. without a consistent reproducer not much can be done |
| 13:06.32 | RadoS | ratrace, reproduce on other systems? |
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| 13:07.08 | RadoS | That's my problem, I don't know how to isolate it... |
| 13:07.55 | RadoS | I don't know enough about the interaction between kernel, gpu, systemd at boot. |
| 13:08.22 | RadoS | gpu being the only relevant difference as far as I can tell. |
| 13:09.50 | ratrace | without that the filing of the bug is.... much less effective |
| 13:11.24 | RadoS | I know, but maybe those maintain each component have a better grasp of which part their component plays in it. |
| 13:11.30 | RadoS | +ing |
| 13:11.42 | ratrace | sure, just saying if you can find a reproducer, that'd be great |
| 13:12.04 | RadoS | That's what I hoped to find here, a clue for it. :-) |
| 13:13.22 | ratrace | RadoS: so to be 100% sure what you're saying, is that with "quiet" on the kernel command line options, you still see systemd and/or kernel prints on boot? |
| 13:13.40 | RadoS | No kernel, just systemd. |
| 13:14.15 | ratrace | RadoS: are those just errors or ALL of them? |
| 13:14.20 | RadoS | ALL. |
| 13:14.49 | RadoS | You know the lines where it says "service name: OK" where OK is in green. |
| 13:15.47 | ratrace | and if you add systemd.show_status=false alongside quiet ? |
| 13:16.06 | RadoS | Haven't tried that yet. |
| 13:16.52 | RadoS | Will do now, rebooting, brb. |
| 13:16.58 | ratrace | RadoS: Service name: "OK"? or [ OK ] service name? BIG difference! the former is openrc |
| 13:17.09 | RadoS | [OK] |
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| 13:17.26 | RadoS | brb |
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| 13:19.33 | RadoS | ratrace, hmm, that killed it. Will it make sense to try on the "offending system" to explicitely set it to true? |
| 13:20.29 | RadoS | will do next time. |
| 13:20.35 | ratrace | RadoS: systemd.show_status is "auto" by default, meaning it observes the existence of "quiet", thus with those two it's possible to show one (kernel or systemd) or both or none, on boot |
| 13:21.02 | cskr | rclone in Debian repositories is 7 versions behind upstream. There is already a bug reported for this at https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=960677. If I am to help package the latest version, what would be the best place to start? |
| 13:21.03 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/960677 in rclone (open): «New release available: 1.51.0»; severity: normal; opened: 2020-05-15; last modified: 2020-07-07. |
| 13:21.36 | ratrace | RadoS: now you could look into your initramfs and see if systemd is started with a --show-status= override somehow, though I don't know which one has the priority, if both commandline and kernel option are added... by some logic, --show-status (explicit) should override implicit |
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| 13:22.18 | ratrace | ,v rclone |
| 13:22.19 | judd | Package: rclone on amd64 -- stretch: 1.35-1+b3; buster: 1.45-3; bullseye: 1.50.2-3; sid: 1.50.2-3 |
| 13:22.37 | oxek | cskr: unlikely to receive a new version in debian-stable |
| 13:22.40 | ratrace | cskr: you could contact the maintainer and ask them |
| 13:22.56 | ratrace | but yes, that's never gonna reach buster, only bullseye |
| 13:23.12 | cskr | oxek: The version in unstable is 7 versions behind upstream. |
| 13:23.22 | ratrace | !debian-next |
| 13:23.23 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 13:23.31 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
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| 13:23.57 | RadoS | ratrace, "look into initramfs"... how? |
| 13:25.15 | RadoS | "initrd /boot/initrd.img-4.19.0-11-686-pae" that's all?! |
| 13:25.17 | ratrace | RadoS: by looking through /usr/share/initramfs-tools/{hooks,scripts} if any package added something to override, but wait, I think there's a simpler way to determine it, just a moment |
| 13:25.57 | cskr | The latest upstream version of rclone is 1.53.1, but the one in unstable is 1.50.2. |
| 13:26.36 | ratrace | cskr: we got that. your optoins are to askn in #debian-next on OFTC, and/or contact the maintainer asking how you can help with a version bump |
| 13:27.05 | cskr | ratrace: Thanks. The channel is invite-only, how do I get invited? |
| 13:27.15 | dvs | cskr: on OFTC!! |
| 13:27.24 | ratrace | RadoS: is there an init= override in the kernel command line? |
| 13:27.57 | RadoS | ratrace, "linux /boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-11-686-pae root=UUID=6df421cd-d290-4987-a189-b25898cf984c ro quiet ipv6.disable=1 net.ifnames=0 |
| 13:29.25 | cskr | dvs: I misread the bot message and thought the channel is invite-only on OFTC. |
| 13:29.36 | ratrace | RadoS: well I don't know then. short of dissecting the initramfs init script (which I'm not willing to guide you through as it's time consuming), I guess you could just file a bug report and at least state that you can override that behavior with systemd.show_status kernel option |
| 13:30.02 | RadoS | ratrace, that already helped a lot, thank you for your patience. |
| 13:30.19 | ratrace | RadoS: so list all the combinations of quiet and systemd.show_status and what happens. |
| 13:30.43 | RadoS | ratrace, which package to assign, kernel or systemd? |
| 13:30.47 | ratrace | systemd |
| 13:31.00 | ratrace | they will reassign if the issue is found elsewhere |
| 13:31.01 | RadoS | Ok, have a nice rest-sunday. |
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| 13:52.36 | cskr | This is sweet! The latest version of rclone just got committed to git repo. |
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| 13:55.19 | ratrace | cskr: so you asked the maintainers and they insta-obeyed? or are you talking about upstream's upstream git repo? |
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| 13:58.09 | Mazhive | guys can some one advise me why this turorial should work while in my case it is not/https://www.theurbanpenguin.com/pxelinux-using-proxy-dhcp/ |
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| 13:58.22 | cskr | ratrace: I'm talking about Debian's rclone repo. I didn't even ask. Either it was just an awesome coincidence or the maintainer is here. The bug got updated after about 3 months just when I happened to ask about it here. |
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| 13:59.25 | cskr | I see that upstream merge commits in https://salsa.debian.org/go-team/packages/rclone/-/commits/experimental/ started over an hour ago, so yeah just a really strange coincidence. |
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| 14:02.57 | ratrace | cool |
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| 15:31.53 | RadoS | ratrace, for the record: systemd.show_status=true achieved what I wanted on the over-quieted system A. |
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| 15:54.08 | Mazhive | oke a fresh vm install just works out of the box yet my configuration is not working i suspect i have a running service that interferes with the dnsmasq not able to hand over the path of the pxelinux.o |
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| 16:11.06 | tralala | I'm trying to install django and I installed python3-django, but it's missning manage.py. Any ideas what package contains it? |
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| 16:12.43 | nkuttler | tralala: what exactly did you install? which command did you use? |
| 16:12.48 | nkuttler | oh wait.. |
| 16:13.11 | nkuttler | tralala: dpkg -L python3-django | grep manage.py |
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| 16:14.12 | tralala | nkuttler, this returns only a tpl file |
| 16:14.46 | nkuttler | tralala: there's django-admin |
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| 16:15.16 | nkuttler | tralala: manage.py is part of a project anyway |
| 16:15.51 | tralala | ah, I see |
| 16:16.04 | tralala | so I have to create a project |
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| 16:18.16 | tralala | thank you nkuttler |
| 16:19.56 | Waxhead | Trying to figure out how to remove grub2 from a system with many disks. I am trying to debug a boot problem and on the server I am using the BIOS is a bit nuts e.g. I can't enter the setup screen and choose boot order. Therefore I would first and foremost like to uninstall grub on all disks except one before trying to restore my beloved mess to it's former glory. So how do I remove grub (and not the partition table) ? |
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| 16:30.48 | jelly | Waxhead, you replace the code with either zeroes, or write dos mbr (compatible) code instead of grub |
| 16:30.52 | jelly | ,i mbr |
| 16:30.54 | judd | Package mbr (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Master Boot Record for IBM-PC compatible computers.. Version: 1.2.1; Size: 21.7k; Installed: 49k |
| 16:31.11 | jelly | ^ /sbin/install-mbr in that package |
| 16:31.13 | Waxhead | jelly: ok so I have to "dd" over grub then |
| 16:31.31 | Waxhead | jelly: ok thanks! I'll check out the install-mbr |
| 16:31.33 | jelly | I'm honestly not sure how you can dd only half a block |
| 16:31.57 | jelly | you could save the partition table, rewrite the block, then put the p.table back |
| 16:32.38 | Waxhead | ok I just want to reverse the effects of grub-install /dev/sdX |
| 16:33.05 | jelly | google says overwriting just the first 440 bytes is enough |
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| 16:34.20 | jelly | dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdXXX bs=440 count=1 # UNTESTED, presumably GNU dd is smart enough to first read the whole sector, and then put back a copy with new values in 440 bytes, and rest unchanged |
| 16:34.48 | jelly | this only applies to DOS MBR partition tables. |
| 16:35.11 | jelly | if you have GPT and the system boots in UEFI, grub is written somewhere else |
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| 16:40.18 | velix | Oh dear. What happens to the servers? |
| 16:40.36 | velix | I'm getting Service Unavailable on https://packages.debian.org/stretch/libfaketime |
| 16:40.56 | velix | I hope it's no DDOS :( |
| 16:42.15 | jelly | velix, there's a point release done this weekend, perhaps the downtime is related |
| 16:42.36 | velix | jelly: Oh okay. |
| 16:42.51 | Waxhead | jelly: no pesky UEFI / GPT ... this is old stuff ;) |
| 16:43.16 | jelly | https://packages.debian.org/source/oldstable/faketime opened for time, a bit slow |
| 16:43.37 | jelly | velix, as linked from https://tracker.debian.org/faketime |
| 16:44.30 | velix | jelly: Sorry, from my location, I'm getting "Service Unavailable" anywhere right now. |
| 16:45.23 | velix | Oh, Debian isn't archived in the Internet Archive :( |
| 16:45.31 | velix | Maybe google cache |
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| 16:46.32 | EdePopede | live always includes nonfree? |
| 16:46.47 | jelly | velix, I don't think packages.debian.org is behind a CDN, so something is interfering with your http(s) access. If you need to grab a .deb manually you can also try snapshot.d.o, eg. https://snapshot.debian.org/package/faketime/0.9.6-7/#libfaketime_0.9.6-7 |
| 16:48.12 | velix | Hmm... I've never seen a library at "\usr\lib\x86_64-linux-gnu\faketime\" only. Shouldn't it be linked to "\usr\lib"? |
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| 16:48.46 | jelly | it shouldn't |
| 16:49.07 | jelly | EdePopede, no |
| 16:49.17 | jelly | !firmware live |
| 16:49.18 | dpkg | Unofficial <live> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for Debian 10 "Buster" as a live OS are available at http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ . See also <firmware images>. |
| 16:49.53 | EdePopede | ah, just found it. on the jigdo page there's an explicit link to nonfree+live. went up the tree from there a bit. |
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| 16:51.50 | jelly | velix, LD_PRELOAD libraries are special and probably shouldn't be in default library path |
| 16:51.52 | EdePopede | and just discovered jigdo-16G. ehm, wow. with that other networkless PC doesn't look wrong, but 16G? oomph. |
| 16:52.24 | velix | jelly: Yeah. I'm doing some SSL certificate checking. Thanks for pointing me. |
| 16:52.50 | velix | time traveling in shell is fun |
| 16:53.04 | jelly | velix, there's a handy command line wrapper in "faketime" package |
| 16:53.25 | velix | jelly: Yeah, I'm playing around with several approaches. |
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| 16:54.36 | velix | jelly: hehe, faketime uses /usr/$LIB/faketime/libfaketime.so.1 in LD_preload ;) |
| 16:54.40 | jelly | faketime is also useful if you have a Debian 6 system still installed, the only way to verify and apt-get install packages without completely ignoring gpg sigs |
| 16:54.59 | velix | I'm curious what happens on 2039 :D |
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| 17:00.37 | EdePopede | not sure if this is the cheapest route for me, 21 hops sounds like a bit too much: https://0x0.st/iUeZ.txt |
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| 17:02.52 | EdePopede | jigdo's template files are only on the mirrors? but even if, why would i get repeteadly this one? |
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| 17:06.31 | jelly | number of hops is less important than total throughput and latency |
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| 17:06.55 | jelly | and template files are not that big |
| 17:07.00 | EdePopede | and: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-dvd/ -- it says the file doesn't exist. btw, when did debian switch to https? (yes, it works with http) |
| 17:07.52 | jelly | which particular file fails to exist? |
| 17:07.57 | EdePopede | i tracerouted some of the secondary servers in the country before, the next i could identify from its domain has values around 20ms also |
| 17:08.04 | EdePopede | 1st jigdo |
| 17:08.22 | EdePopede | but works with http, so probably it has only a problem with the protocal |
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| 17:08.37 | jelly | wfm |
| 17:08.39 | jelly | [19:08] ~ => HEAD https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-dvd/debian-10.6.0-amd64-DVD-1.jigdo geometar |
| 17:08.39 | jelly | 200 OK |
| 17:09.36 | EdePopede | so, template appears from the primary server. and the screen is spamed already, nice. |
| 17:10.01 | EdePopede | is this from jigdo? |
| 17:10.35 | jelly | that's from me trying to see whether the file exists. |
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| 17:11.31 | jelly | using /usr/bin/HEAD command. I could have used wget or curl but HEAD is easier to just get http headers |
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| 17:12.31 | EdePopede | ah. yes, checked it with curl -I. file is there, only jigdo wanted plain http |
| 17:12.52 | EdePopede | heh, never used it i think |
| 17:14.06 | EdePopede | i like jigdo. it makes my computer look really fast :) |
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| 17:25.01 | EdePopede | i'd only it would have some indicator. i have no idea if it's 5 minutes from being done or 5 hours. |
| 17:27.13 | jelly | EdePopede, oh, if jigdo only tries plain http and the server redirects you, breaking the download, that's either a bug for www.debian.org (breaking jigdo) or less so a bug for jigdo (not handling redirects and/or https) |
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| 17:29.40 | EdePopede | jelly, i'm following https://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/ - maybe the recent version does it, i'll check it later. jigdo is a bit special usually being from yesteryear having to work with today's infrastructure |
| 17:30.22 | EdePopede | the plan is to check the script anyway. it's a script after all ;) |
| 17:31.18 | EdePopede | a had to add -L to curl myself in a script, when i found out that sometimes there were redirects on some media servers |
| 17:31.25 | jelly | maybe also show actual command line and output |
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| 17:32.33 | EdePopede | i just started it with no parameters, it took the url from the cache: |
| 17:32.35 | EdePopede | jigdo [https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-dvd/debian-10.6.0-amd64-DVD-1.jigdo]: |
| 17:32.36 | EdePopede | File `https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-dvd/debian-10.6.0-amd64-DVD-1.jigdo' does not exist! |
| 17:32.51 | EdePopede | then: $ curl -I https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-dvd/debian-10.6.0-amd64-DVD-1.jigdo |
| 17:32.51 | EdePopede | HTTP/1.1 200 OK |
| 17:32.56 | Mazhive | oke i need a debian specialist .... concerning services or protocols |
| 17:33.10 | EdePopede | so i'd say it may be a protocol issue |
| 17:33.22 | jelly | EdePopede, sounds like a clear-cut bug in for jigdo package |
| 17:33.27 | transhumanist | hi is there any file system that can run, even as a third party add in for windows that would allow me to access rw to by both windows and linux that supports unix permissions? I was looking at ext2 but unfortunately those windows programs wont run on Windows 10, figured I would ask here to get some more abscure ideas, I have exhausted all other avenues |
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| 17:34.05 | EdePopede | jelly: a case for debbugs or oftc? |
| 17:34.53 | jelly | transhumanist, windows has much better and sadly very different ACLs than Linux. Perhaps you can use a network share like samba? |
| 17:35.27 | EdePopede | i'd be concerned about ownership, or does windows support some kind of sane translation table? |
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| 17:35.42 | transhumanist | wil that preserver unix permissions written to by linux software? |
| 17:35.44 | ratrace | jelly: m.... mmmm....... mmmmuch better? |
| 17:35.58 | jelly | there are commercial drivers for ext4 but I suspect they squash all permissions |
| 17:36.18 | transhumanist | got a link jelly? |
| 17:36.52 | transhumanist | not sure what you mean by squash permissions |
| 17:37.44 | jelly | reduce ownerships to a single uid/gid |
| 17:38.00 | jelly | called "squashing" in NFS |
| 17:38.04 | jelly | https://www.paragon-software.com/home/linuxfs-windows/ is one |
| 17:38.05 | transhumanist | ah ok |
| 17:39.11 | jelly | ratrace, yes. NTFS ACL are MUCH more powerful and comprehensive than unix permissions. Even if you include POSIX ACL in the mix |
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| 17:39.37 | Casper26 | Anyone had problem with firefox speedtest being very slow? i upgraded to gig service and speedtest using cli show 960 down in firefox only get 310 down subsequently chrome gets 960 down? |
| 17:39.48 | transhumanist | jelly, do you know when the drive shows up in windows explorer , do they mean windows explorer as a disk? |
| 17:40.08 | transhumanist | 20 bucks seems like an ok price to pay if it does |
| 17:40.25 | EdePopede | done. so roundabout half an hour for ISO-1. |
| 17:40.45 | jelly | they also work differently, NTFS ACL have consistent inheritance. unix permissions only inherit set[gu]id from parent dir as a special case |
| 17:41.21 | jelly | transhumanist, I haven't actually used any of those windows drivers in a decade, sorry |
| 17:41.27 | jelly | just know they exist |
| 17:42.13 | transhumanist | for me as a development environment using OpenNAS-ISCSI-Windows Initiator-WSL2-Debian-Networking- ext4 disk mount, I think preseving the basic permissions would be ok |
| 17:42.31 | transhumanist | the problem is the programs in linux balk at lack of ability to set permissions |
| 17:42.38 | transhumanist | if I use ntfs |
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| 17:43.14 | jelly | there are also commerical ntfs drivers for linux, that have more comprehensive mapping of unix permissions to ntfs |
| 17:43.18 | transhumanist | hell for 20 bucks its worht a try , thanks jelly |
| 17:43.26 | transhumanist | oh really |
| 17:43.31 | sponix | Casper26: if your router has "nat acceleration" you want to turn that ON |
| 17:43.40 | transhumanist | sorry to ask do you know the name? |
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| 17:44.37 | jelly | https://www.tuxera.com/products/tuxera-ntfs-embedded/ |
| 17:44.40 | Casper26 | but speedtest are accurate on everything except firefox works in chrome? |
| 17:45.48 | jelly | transhumanist, used to be "for Linux", and they're the same company that made FUSE-based ntfs-3g, I can't find a better page for Linux than that now |
| 17:46.16 | transhumanist | thank you very much jellly, I think because its just data transfer, that I should stick with EXT4 mount on windows and Linux native , so I will use the first one but thanks for the second link anyway |
| 17:46.24 | jelly | but if you already have a NAS, why not present NFS to both windows and linux VM? |
| 17:46.29 | transhumanist | thanks for the information jelly, you have been very helpful |
| 17:46.40 | transhumanist | because the software needs the unix permissions |
| 17:47.03 | jelly | NFS is a unix native network filesystem. It has unix permissions. |
| 17:47.09 | transhumanist | oh ok |
| 17:47.17 | transhumanist | I thought it was basterized |
| 17:47.42 | jelly | (it is also probabmy much slower than a block device, if you have millions of files you're going to notice) |
| 17:48.05 | transhumanist | which is slower NFS or the other? |
| 17:48.12 | jelly | nfs can be slow. |
| 17:48.18 | transhumanist | good to know, thank yoiu |
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| 17:48.56 | transhumanist | I have had good luck with iscsi and I know it well , so nfs would be a good adventure, but with what you just said , its good to know |
| 17:49.02 | jelly | Casper26, maybe avoid reliance on browser performance completely, and use speedtest-cli ? |
| 17:49.07 | jelly | ,v speedtest-cli |
| 17:49.09 | judd | Package: speedtest-cli on amd64 -- jessie: 0.3.1-1; stretch: 1.0.0-1; buster: 2.0.2-1+deb10u1; bullseye: 2.1.2-2; sid: 2.1.2-2 |
| 17:50.36 | Casper26 | jelly cli works fine but since firefox is my default browser i would like for it to work correctly chrome works out of the box |
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| 17:55.57 | sponix | Casper26: odd, because I have had the speedtest-cli with the broken stats, and the browsers posting accurate ones - you claim the opposite |
| 17:56.13 | Casper26 | yup |
| 17:56.51 | Casper26 | but like i said only happens in firefox chrome works as expected but i dont like chrome |
| 17:57.00 | jhutchins | transhumanist: Once you have gigabit networking, local hardware/performance has much more effect on speeds. My old spinning-rust core2 duo gets nowhere near the speeds my wife's newer SSD system gets. |
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| 17:57.28 | jelly | ,v firefox-esr |
| 17:57.30 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 68.9.0esr-1~deb8u2; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 78.3.0esr-2; sid: 78.3.0esr-2 |
| 17:57.52 | jelly | perhaps wait a bit and see if firefox 78esr makes things better |
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| 18:02.35 | transhumanist | thanks jhutchins, in my case its definitely a bottleneck till I get my new computer |
| 18:02.41 | transhumanist | then the gloves come off |
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| 18:04.10 | Casper26 | jelly it's the same on 78.3.oesr and 80 stable |
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| 18:06.23 | NetTerminalGene | everyone waits 78.3 esr |
| 18:06.42 | *** join/#debian bryceml (~bryceml@104.243.49.127) |
| 18:06.43 | NetTerminalGene | but maintainer is procrastinating |
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| 18:07.27 | somiaj | NetTerminalGene: it is more about security updates, and when there is a need for them for 78.3 in stable |
| 18:10.33 | NetTerminalGene | i will switch to another browser if they don't release tomorrow |
| 18:11.26 | ratrace | which one tho, they're all equally bad |
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| 18:15.19 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: i have brave browser installed here but i don't use |
| 18:15.30 | NetTerminalGene | it is very good |
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| 18:16.19 | nkuttler | ,v exiftool |
| 18:16.20 | judd | No package named 'exiftool' was found in amd64. |
| 18:16.41 | nkuttler | ,v libimage-exiftool-perl |
| 18:16.42 | judd | Package: libimage-exiftool-perl on amd64 -- jessie: 9.74-1; stretch: 10.40-1; buster: 11.16-1; bullseye: 12.06-1; sid: 12.06-1 |
| 18:16.57 | oxek | NetTerminalGene: they will not release tomorrow. Expect sometime in October. |
| 18:17.17 | oxek | we've been over this |
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| 18:23.05 | jelly | velix, packages.debian.org should work better now, thanks for reporting |
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| 18:25.07 | velix | jelly: It was "complaning", not "reporting" ;) |
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| 18:35.41 | Mazhive | good god..... i think i go the issue ... |
| 18:35.49 | Mazhive | got |
| 18:36.00 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: brave? the one that promises privacy but was caught with embedded tracking tokens in some URLs? :) |
| 18:36.42 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: yes |
| 18:37.36 | ratrace | gotcha :) |
| 18:39.00 | Guest88279 | The "bios-time" in a guest machine in virtman is the hosts oses system time, right? |
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| 18:43.51 | Mazhive | jezus.,... i got it ... it seems the firewalld rles got corrupted and had to manually add the ports again i figured it out because a fresh install worked out of the box which does not use a firewall damn.... that toke me some time to figure out ... |
| 18:44.43 | genr8_ | What am I supposed to do when I "cat" a Binary file to my xfce terminal, and it corrupts all the text from then on... https://i.imgur.com/4DrzYqU.png <-- thats a 'ls' command after the binary corruption |
| 18:45.03 | joepublic | typing `reset` can help |
| 18:45.15 | genr8_ | that worked. thanks |
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| 18:55.10 | oxek | is there any terminal emulator that would be safe from this: echo -e "\033(0" |
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| 18:59.27 | Mazhive | kill the terminal with another terminal :) |
| 19:00.00 | password2 | haha |
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| 19:02.43 | password2 | whats the easiest way to upgrade my server to newest debian keeping files and setting? |
| 19:04.12 | oxek | password2: sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade |
| 19:04.58 | password2 | its so old it does not find apt |
| 19:05.37 | oxek | sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade |
| 19:05.45 | password2 | running it now |
| 19:05.55 | password2 | but that won't dist upgrade me? |
| 19:06.02 | oxek | it's the first step |
| 19:07.35 | password2 | ok ran it twice |
| 19:07.47 | *** join/#debian Newami (~Newami@ip70-179-45-125.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 19:07.54 | password2 | sceond time its like 0upgraded , 0 newly installed , 658 not upgraded |
| 19:08.08 | oxek | now comes the sudo apt dist-upgrade |
| 19:08.11 | oxek | hope you have backups |
| 19:08.17 | jmcnaught | password2: did you change sources.list? |
| 19:08.18 | oxek | ehh, sudo apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 19:08.45 | *** join/#debian Onyx47 (~bojan@185-18-61-91.cgn.optinet.hr) |
| 19:08.46 | password2 | jmcnaught, not recenty |
| 19:09.00 | password2 | backups of? |
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| 19:09.11 | jelly | oxek, if there is, it wouldn't be either xterm or vt100 compatible |
| 19:09.12 | password2 | it won't nuke my none primary drive? |
| 19:09.13 | oxek | backups of everything you care about. Always good to have |
| 19:09.16 | *** join/#debian clickyhdd (~clickyhdd@fsf/member/clickyhdd) |
| 19:09.45 | oxek | jelly: that's probably a valid point, yeah |
| 19:09.54 | oxek | still annoying though |
| 19:09.55 | nkuttler | you can't know what you care about until you don't have it though |
| 19:10.08 | jelly | also, it'd break VT100 line drawings in apps |
| 19:10.17 | oxek | nkuttler: such wisdom, rarely seen in here |
| 19:10.19 | KOLANICH | Hi everybody. |
| 19:10.21 | password2 | this is my backups serv |
| 19:10.23 | password2 | :D |
| 19:10.58 | nkuttler | oxek: fwiw, just run reset to ungarble your term? |
| 19:11.04 | jelly | oxek, if you ever see wqqqqqqqqkx instead of line drawings, that means the terminal fails to support those |
| 19:11.20 | oxek | nkuttler: yeah, that always works. Still annoying though. |
| 19:11.47 | nkuttler | and perhaps use a hex editor instead of cat'ing binary files, or whatever you do ;) |
| 19:11.57 | password2 | hmmm |
| 19:12.08 | password2 | idk if is wise to cp my home dir |
| 19:12.32 | *** join/#debian mzajc (~marko@unaffiliated/mzajc) |
| 19:12.47 | password2 | whats a better way? rsync? |
| 19:13.00 | password2 | preferably something thatgives feedback |
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| 19:14.16 | clickyhdd | quit |
| 19:14.19 | clickyhdd | rip |
| 19:14.42 | alexbh | Hi, will this version of Nextcloud be included on DEbian Buster? https://github.com/nextcloud/desktop/issues/876 |
| 19:16.33 | somiaj | alexbh: debian buster is a frozen (well mostly) release, new software or versions is not going to be added. |
| 19:16.55 | *** join/#debian phunyguy (~blaahchm@ubuntu/member/phunyguy) |
| 19:16.57 | somiaj | ,v nextcloud |
| 19:16.58 | oxek | *cough* except for getting rid of scrolling on tty |
| 19:16.58 | judd | No package named 'nextcloud' was found in amd64. |
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| 19:17.19 | jmcnaught | ,v nextcloud-desktop |
| 19:17.20 | judd | Package: nextcloud-desktop on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 2.5.1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.5.1-3+deb10u1; bullseye: 3.0.1-1; sid: 3.0.1-3 |
| 19:17.23 | somiaj | is nextcloud even in debian. That does sound like a targeted fix issue that could be fixed in a point release. |
| 19:18.01 | somiaj | alexbh: file a bug report with the debian BTS about that issue, that does seem like a serious enough bug that if a targeted fix can fix it, it might make it into a point release (but only the fix, not a new version) |
| 19:18.08 | jmcnaught | Nextcloud itself is not in Debian but the desktop client is, and some integration packages for caja, nemo etc. |
| 19:18.26 | somiaj | also note that lists 2.5.0 not 2.5.1, so make sure the bug is also there. |
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| 19:19.45 | alexbh | lets say... I use 2.5 which is not working... but there is a fix on 2.7 and 3.0 (bullseye).... so I dont want to wait until the package 3 is released with bullseye |
| 19:20.02 | somiaj | alexbh: you can build your own backport |
| 19:20.12 | somiaj | ,check-backport nextcloud-desktop |
| 19:20.28 | judd | Backporting package nextcloud-desktop in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13);Build-Depends-Indep: dh-sequence-sphinxdoc. |
| 19:20.28 | oxek | ,checkbackport nextcloud-desktop |
| 19:20.30 | judd | Backporting package nextcloud-desktop in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13);Build-Depends-Indep: dh-sequence-sphinxdoc. |
| 19:21.04 | password2 | oh dang 828GB of data |
| 19:21.25 | somiaj | debian helper is in backports already, so that part should work, unsure about dh-sequence-sphinxdoc though, but that might come with the debian helper from backports, so yea looks like it is possible you could compile a newer version |
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| 19:22.50 | somiaj | alexbh: there seems to be some bugs reported about issues, but I can't seem to find one exactly releated to that issue on github. Something like that might be fixed in buster provided they can do a targeted fix. |
| 19:24.05 | alexbh | ok. so what is the easiest thing I can do? |
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| 19:25.24 | hmuller | have you checked to see if there is a flatpak or snap package? |
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| 19:27.44 | hmuller | I didn't see one in flatpak ... |
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| 19:28.50 | hmuller | whoops, just found it in flatpak, ver 3.0.1 |
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| 19:29.24 | alexbh | in snap not for the client |
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| 19:35.27 | NegativeK | Apologies if already reported/the wrong place, but I'm getting 503s from package search via https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages . Example: https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=default§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=python2 |
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| 19:39.36 | Miles8of9 | debian 10.6 released..??? |
| 19:39.44 | EdePopede | yep |
| 19:39.51 | Miles8of9 | good |
| 19:40.39 | EdePopede | it's irritating to have debian ISOs with yesterday's timestamps |
| 19:41.40 | password2 | oh boi moving this data might take a couple of days at this pace |
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| 19:42.37 | jelly | NegativeK, that search tends to time out when there are lots of results I think; what are you looking for? |
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| 19:44.46 | EdePopede | password2: how are the disks connected? took me about half an hour or less to move 1/10 of that recently. |
| 19:45.01 | NegativeK | jelly: Ahhh; that makes sense. I got it to be sluggish but give a page for a single-result search. |
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| 19:45.43 | NegativeK | Nothing that can't wait a day or a week. I was just going to casually poke around the python2 package. |
| 19:46.36 | password2 | both is sata |
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| 19:49.08 | password2 | rsync is hitting 100% cpu usage |
| 19:49.29 | password2 | well more like 60% |
| 19:49.32 | somiaj | EdePopede: luckly one can install with a 10.5 image just fine. |
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| 19:50.18 | password2 | at 80Mb/s i wont get it done unde 3 hours |
| 19:50.29 | EdePopede | are older point releases still available after the new one gets released? |
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| 19:51.01 | jelly | !cd archive |
| 19:51.01 | dpkg | A repository for CD images of older Debian releases is at http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/ [for DFSG free ISOs] or https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/archive/ [for non-free images] |
| 19:51.14 | EdePopede | heh, i have around 25 on this one, 120 or so (at least mc tells me so) on the other PC. really makes a differenfe :) |
| 19:51.19 | EdePopede | ah thx |
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| 19:53.05 | EdePopede | btw, would be nice to have the directory timestamps reflect the release dates :) |
| 19:53.27 | EdePopede | oh, they do, don't they? |
| 19:54.00 | EdePopede | the newer one at least seem to |
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| 20:25.11 | merethan | Hi all. Some unnamed failure occured buring my installation (latest netinst img) of preset package collections (Desktop/Gnome, sshd, Utils). I could redo the step in the installer menu. Any chance files are now duplicated on my disk? |
| 20:26.50 | merethan | Can I grep for an extension, or run a script to check for disowned (not belonging to any package) files? |
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| 20:27.43 | teo7 | hi, i'm trying Debian stable, but installing the drivers for my Nvidia GeForce 950m (with the command "apt install nvidia-driver"), the screen sporadically does graphical glitchs. These consist of flickering, until I move the mouse abruptly. I tried to migrate from xorg to wayland, but the latter is blocked by default when installing proprietary drivers. how can i have a hybrid system running on debian stable? This guide, for Debian 10 |
| 20:27.43 | teo7 | recommends using either the integrated GPU or the dedicated one, but they don't seem optimal solutions to me -> https://wiki.debian.org/NVIDIA%20Optimus |
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| 20:29.39 | somiaj | merethan: Nope, debian packages will just overwrite the old files when a newer (or same) version is installed. |
| 20:30.34 | somiaj | merethan: dpkg -S path/to/file will let you know what package owns a file, but finding file that are not owned by any packages is a bit more work (as in many cases people will have packages outside the debian system in /usr/local, /opt, /home, etc |
| 20:31.01 | merethan | I can omit certain paths such as /opt |
| 20:31.13 | merethan | Install is fresh though, so none are there. |
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| 20:47.16 | merethan | My fresh installation got a bit weirder: I can't start a terminal. |
| 20:48.07 | th_ | open the pod bay doors, hal |
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| 20:49.25 | merethan | Something along those lines. |
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| 20:49.46 | merethan | Any other way I can start gnome-terminal? :P |
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| 20:53.53 | oxek | merethan: switch to a tty and do: DISPLAY=:0 gnome-terminal |
| 20:53.56 | oxek | and then switch back |
| 20:54.30 | merethan | I have tried doing so but didn't work. |
| 20:54.41 | oxek | no errors on tty? |
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| 20:58.02 | th_ | xhost? |
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| 21:18.47 | merethan | I got lazy and installed again, using xfce oxek, th |
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| 21:24.05 | alex11 | which package provides the ncurses development headers? |
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| 21:25.46 | alex11 | never mind; i think it's libncurses-dev |
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| 21:42.30 | jhutchins | Sheesh. The arrow keys on the laptop don't work on the TV menus. The enter key and the mouse don't either. |
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| 22:07.00 | EdePopede | jhutchins: maybe some enter/send thing. can you emulate keypresses? |
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| 23:04.24 | EdePopede | !java |
| 23:04.24 | dpkg | Java is a cross-platform C++-like OO language. Sun, now Oracle, has released most of its Java implementation under the GPL as <openjdk>. There are other implementations packaged; for Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" systems, Sun's JRE/JDK is in <non-free> (for i386, amd64 only). Ask me about <install java>. See also <java alternatives>, <icedtea>, <java ipv6>, <java-package>. http://wiki.debian.org/Java ##java on irc.freenode.net. |
| 23:04.35 | EdePopede | 6? looks like it could need an update |
| 23:06.16 | sponix | !install java |
| 23:06.17 | dpkg | To install the java runtime environment (JRE) to run java programs, install 'default-jre'; to compile java sources, install 'default-jdk'. You will often find additional openjdk-$X-jre or openjdk-$X-jre versions in <backports>. See also <java alternatives>, <java plugin>. |
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| 23:30.24 | amlchief | are there any known reasons on why NVMe disk write speed could be limited to 1.2 GB/s on Linux ? just tested the same drive on w2012 r2 server and got >3gb/s speeds for writes |
| 23:33.33 | cipherize | amlchief: That's not a question that has an easy answer. |
| 23:34.40 | sponix | amlchief: what are you using to test this ? |
| 23:35.00 | amlchief | dd on linux and crystaldiskmark on windows |
| 23:35.50 | amlchief | read speeds have no issues at all |
| 23:36.07 | ratrace | amlchief: at what block size |
| 23:36.13 | amlchief | 1M |
| 23:36.22 | ratrace | on both systems? |
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| 23:37.03 | amlchief | yes |
| 23:37.23 | cipherize | amlchief: What SSD do you have? |
| 23:38.53 | amlchief | I have tested this on 2 ssd's: Crucial P5 1Tb and Samsung 970 PRO NVMe 1 TB |
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| 23:39.13 | amlchief | both disks same issue |
| 23:39.34 | amlchief | on machines dell poweredge R630 and R620 |
| 23:39.45 | ratrace | and also, was windows tested on the same hardware? that limit sounds like within range of single channel ddr3 transfer rate, or a 10GBps NIC |
| 23:39.54 | amlchief | same hardware |
| 23:40.03 | amlchief | same pcie slot |
| 23:40.49 | somiaj | amlchief: Anything in dmesg about what it is detecting the drives as and what speeds it assigns to them? |
| 23:40.53 | cheapie | amlchief: This might be a bit of a stretch, but check if the device is properly negotiating PCIe 3.0 speeds under Linux... I don't see why it wouldn't, but who knows. *shrug* |
| 23:40.58 | ratrace | scratch that about dd3, I missed by an order of magnitude |
| 23:41.02 | somiaj | amlchief: also is this on the stable 4.19 kernel or a newer kernel? |
| 23:41.03 | ratrace | *ddr3 |
| 23:41.51 | cheapie | "lspci -vv" should spew info about it, look for "Speed: 8GT/s" (or 16) under the "LnkSta" section. |
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| 23:42.41 | somiaj | cheapie: won't that just show what the device reports and not what the kernel actually assignmend, maybe lshw would be better to see details about what the kernel is actually using? |
| 23:42.59 | ratrace | amlchief: also what were you dd'ing? /dev/zero? |
| 23:43.19 | amlchief | i'll gather info within 5 min, booting it up. yes it was /dev/zero |
| 23:43.21 | cheapie | somiaj: It'll report what the device says the *current* link state us. |
| 23:43.22 | cheapie | is* |
| 23:43.45 | cipherize | It's possible that your writes were hitting areas of the disk that weren't trimmed. |
| 23:43.48 | somiaj | ahh what the hardware link state is at? I see. |
| 23:43.55 | amlchief | cipherize, i always trim |
| 23:43.59 | amlchief | before tests |
| 23:44.10 | cheapie | somiaj: Yes, whether it's PCIe 1/2/3/4/etc. and also the width. |
| 23:44.28 | cheapie | somiaj: Not to be confused with LnkCap, which should show what the device is *capable* of. |
| 23:45.39 | amlchief | i have also an asus desktop motherboard to perform the same test and as i remember it was same issue, but could confirm |
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| 23:46.00 | somiaj | cheapie: yea I was just thinking what the kernel assigned not what the firmware/bios/pci-e slot assigned. |
| 23:46.34 | cheapie | somiaj: If software somehow switches it to a lower link speed, the hardware *should* then report said new link speed. |
| 23:47.07 | somiaj | cheapie: thanks |
| 23:47.14 | cheapie | You can't just have a PCIe link physically running at one speed and somehow being different to software. |
| 23:47.23 | amlchief | kernel is 4.19.0-10-amd64 |
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| 23:48.28 | somiaj | amlchief: I would still check what the kernel reports, and myabe see if a newer kernel can better deal with NVMe disks. |
| 23:48.47 | dvs | like the one in 10.6! |
| 23:49.05 | ratrace | -10- is the one in 10.6 |
| 23:49.16 | ratrace | oh no, its -11- |
| 23:49.26 | ratrace | reboots |
| 23:49.37 | dvs | boots ratrace |
| 23:49.40 | cheapie | If you're on stable then it might be worth grabbing 5.7.10 from backports. |
| 23:49.53 | amlchief | there was also a similar issue on the same server with normal ssd disks |
| 23:50.04 | cheapie | If you're not on stable, then... you should probably update more often :P |
| 23:50.06 | amlchief | someone reported it blaming the server already https://www.dell.com/community/PowerEdge-HDD-SCSI-RAID/R630-artificial-disk-write-speed-limits-on-SATA/td-p/7699544 |
| 23:50.07 | somiaj | at least to test, as with NVMe still being relativally new, kenernel version could have an effect on things. |
| 23:50.16 | amlchief | but i tested it and on windows ssd speeds are fine still |
| 23:51.25 | amlchief | because i noticed the same on mine, probably there is some problem with this kernel |
| 23:53.46 | genr8_ | ive noticed my NVME performance in general was not great under Debian |
| 23:54.08 | amlchief | anyway, regarding the NVME, i see this in lspci: http://paste.debian.net/1164902/ |
| 23:54.44 | *** part/#debian nulleip (~luiz@189.34.167.63) |
| 23:55.47 | amlchief | not sure how to check actual negotiated speed for nvme, any idea? |
| 23:56.39 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f4ddd00821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:57.00 | amlchief | but from the lspci output i could say the pcie port isn't an issue |
| 23:57.37 | *** join/#debian nulleip (~luiz@189.34.167.63) |
| 23:58.20 | genr8_ | I think it could be the 64 microseconds latency thing |
| 23:58.36 | *** join/#debian waflessnet (~panchito@unaffiliated/waflessnet) |
| 23:58.53 | genr8_ | i have two different drives. |
| 23:59.13 | genr8_ | nvme0: LnkCap:Port #0, Speed 8GT/s, Width x4, ASPM L1, Exit Latency L0s unlimited, L1 <64us |
| 23:59.21 | genr8_ | nvme1: LnkCap:Port #0, Speed 8GT/s, Width x4, ASPM L1, Exit Latency L0s <1us, L1 <8us |
| 23:59.51 | genr8_ | nvme1 goes faster even though its not necessarily a faster drive. |
