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| 00:01.55 | genr8_ | the lower latency faster one is also reporting 128 byte Max Payload, vs a 256 byte |
| 00:02.22 | genr8_ | the 8us/128byte = Crucial P1, and 64us/256byte = Samsung PM961 |
| 00:02.25 | genr8_ | so similar to your setup. |
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| 00:03.03 | amlchief | do you have any speed test results to compare? |
| 00:03.13 | genr8_ | the Crucial is operating at around 500MB/s writes, and the Samsung at about 250MB/s. I know they should be faster than that, and in reverse. |
| 00:03.32 | genr8_ | Im not good at benchmarking SSDs in linux, i just know its not the same as windows. |
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| 00:06.12 | nvz | if you're doing something at the fs level you're not actually measuring the disk |
| 00:06.17 | amlchief | http://paste.debian.net/1164904/ this is samsung on r620 with 2620 v2 cpu. also i remember if i change the cpu to 2680 , the write speed increase to 1.2 gb/s... |
| 00:06.30 | amlchief | nope it's nota bootable disk |
| 00:06.44 | amlchief | inserted just for testing |
| 00:10.17 | genr8_ | with the command you showed: Crucial: 1048576000 bytes (1.0 GB, 1000 MiB) copied, 1.41202 s, 743 MB/s |
| 00:10.34 | amlchief | about same |
| 00:11.13 | amlchief | now i go change boot disk to win 2012 r2 and test using crystalmarkdisk which uses 1M bs as well |
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| 00:12.46 | genr8_ | it could be some kind of filesystem or TRIM thing. |
| 00:13.03 | amlchief | very unlikely |
| 00:13.31 | genr8_ | ok i just did an interesting test |
| 00:14.04 | genr8_ | i have a 14GB unused partition on the samsung SSD, 10485760000 bytes (10 GB, 9.8 GiB) copied, 21.3166 s, 492 MB/s |
| 00:14.26 | genr8_ | wrote directly to the device |
| 00:14.37 | genr8_ | repeating it right after, i got 10485760000 bytes (10 GB, 9.8 GiB) copied, 18.0971 s, 579 MB/s |
| 00:15.01 | amlchief | try trimming it an test again |
| 00:15.19 | genr8_ | how, all i have is fstrim |
| 00:15.29 | amlchief | fstrim -v ./ |
| 00:15.37 | cipherize | fstrim doesn't work if its not a filesystem. |
| 00:15.39 | genr8_ | its not a partition though, that was writing to a raw device. |
| 00:15.42 | amlchief | in the mount point |
| 00:15.43 | cipherize | That's the 'fs' in 'fstrim'. |
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| 00:16.06 | cipherize | amlchief: If he's writing to a device, it's not a filesystem, nor is it mounted. |
| 00:16.17 | genr8_ | cipherize, you caught my drift for once |
| 00:16.17 | amlchief | missed that part |
| 00:16.32 | cipherize | !ops |
| 00:16.32 | dpkg | Please invoke 'dpkg: ops $problem' to call the operators to deal with a specific problem. Misuse of this will lead to a ban. Operators can also be contacted in the #debian-ops channel. |
| 00:16.43 | cipherize | !ops Repeated harassment by genr8_. |
| 00:16.44 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: cipherize complains about a problem (see above) |
| 00:16.55 | genr8_ | lol |
| 00:17.05 | genr8_ | its called an ignore list |
| 00:17.21 | cipherize | genr8_: You're an ass to this entire channel. |
| 00:17.38 | genr8_ | you have no clue what i am |
| 00:17.50 | genr8_ | show proof |
| 00:24.20 | genr8_ | anyway |
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| 00:43.53 | GoddlessMothers | are there living people here presently ? |
| 00:44.10 | sponix | GoddlessMothers: I have a cot in the back |
| 00:44.34 | GoddlessMothers | sponix: aahhhhh *hugg;es the sponix* happy happy :) someone to speak with |
| 00:44.46 | sney | o_o |
| 00:44.52 | GoddlessMothers | sponix: was wondering if you knew much about live usb's ? |
| 00:45.15 | amlchief | there are a lot of people to speak with |
| 00:45.21 | abrotman | There's a Debian live USB .. be more specific |
| 00:45.23 | somiaj | just ask your question |
| 00:45.48 | GoddlessMothers | why not be a bit friendly first somiaj ? the world is busily headed nowhere as is :P |
| 00:46.19 | themill | Or you could just ask your question ;) |
| 00:46.27 | GoddlessMothers | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:46.27 | GoddlessMothers | did a few dnf install's |
| 00:46.35 | GoddlessMothers | there is the question :P |
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| 00:47.10 | abrotman | And which OS is this? |
| 00:47.44 | GoddlessMothers | fedora but the layout using isolinux etc is relatively similar. have done something similar with debian and ubuntu previously. |
| 00:48.06 | GoddlessMothers | grub should always load right ? first thing we should see ? |
| 00:48.11 | abrotman | why not ask #fedora? |
| 00:48.16 | abrotman | or ##linux |
| 00:48.34 | GoddlessMothers | people here have always been more grumpily antisocial :P but helpful :) |
| 00:48.41 | GoddlessMothers | and they dont talk much |
| 00:48.44 | abrotman | Seems like if it worked in Debian before, it might be a Fedora-specific issue |
| 00:48.53 | GoddlessMothers | nods |
| 00:49.37 | cipherize | GoddlessMothers: Remember that Red Hat-alikes boot in SELinux-enforcing mode. I don't know what SELinux attributes are preserved by mksquashfs; if they ARE preserved, and the things that you've added are not correctly labeled, you'll have problems that you won't encounter in Debian. |
| 00:49.39 | GoddlessMothers | heh might be but not a sensible one, initrd's and the like is what grub uses to load shit right ? the uuids that are associated with the final images ? |
| 00:50.51 | GoddlessMothers | ahhhh theres a nasty term, SELinux..... never encountered that before this crap. not part of debian ? |
| 00:51.04 | cipherize | GoddlessMothers: And you should keep this question in #fedora. You didn't even give people five minutes to answer your question before jumping to a channel that isn't for Fedora questions. |
| 00:51.33 | abrotman | (yes, Debian has SELinux) |
| 00:51.40 | GoddlessMothers | cipherize: actually been waiting for like 20 minutes now :P |
| 00:51.51 | cipherize | GoddlessMothers: Timestamps exist. |
| 00:53.39 | cipherize | Your original question was asked in #fedora at 20:41:38 Eastern US time. You whined in #fedora at 20:43:28 (not even two minutes!), joined here at 20:43:45, and asked your off-topic question here at 20:46:27. |
| 00:54.06 | cipherize | GoddlessMothers: The I in IRC does not stand for "instant." ;) |
| 00:55.13 | abrotman | GoddlessMothers: regardless, you're OT here, please take it to the proper channel. This is not it. |
| 00:55.18 | genr8_ | the LiveCD .img most likely has a hybrid bootable sector, which when you uncompress it as an image and recompress it with squashfs, you lose the boot sector |
| 00:56.22 | genr8_ | you would need to do something about that. and idk what. |
| 00:56.54 | genr8_ | look into the scripts of how they generated the .img in the first place |
| 00:57.33 | amlchief | so basically back to my nvme question, just finished the test on windows 2012 on the same machine by just swapping the boot disk: https://i.imgur.com/DLLzp6I.png ( previous linux test: http://paste.debian.net/1164904/ ) |
| 00:58.02 | amlchief | shoul i test on other distros with different kernels and then file a report if its' really a kernel problem? |
| 00:58.28 | genr8_ | sure. i didnt go that far, i just figured it was linux in general |
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| 01:00.19 | somiaj | amlchief: did you try the kernel from backports yet? |
| 01:00.30 | amlchief | no, going to do it now |
| 01:01.35 | somiaj | checking other distros might help, but I don't think the kernel varies that much at this level between distros (except for version). |
| 01:02.21 | amlchief | well i'll test ubuntu , but i need debian anyway for production |
| 01:03.02 | somiaj | might be better to try a fedora livecd or arch vs a debian based distro. |
| 01:03.12 | amlchief | okay |
| 01:03.36 | somiaj | Though I don't see the linux kernel at this level differing that much |
| 01:03.43 | somiaj | (outsdie of version) |
| 01:04.07 | amlchief | any idea about other tests i could perform? |
| 01:04.24 | amlchief | or what should i look for in dmesg |
| 01:04.51 | somiaj | I would just look for info around assigning this block device, usually it states what it is attached to and speeds |
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| 01:12.39 | gxp | Hi. First time here (well, first time on an irc server ever after 1996). Debian user since 2014. Three days ago I decided to jump into "Testing" because I want to collaborate to the project, somehow. I am trying to connect to #debian-next to no avail, though. Is that the correct channel, or is there a better one? TIA. |
| 01:13.13 | sney | !debian-next |
| 01:13.13 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 01:13.15 | cipherize | gxp: It's on a different network. OFTC. |
| 01:14.00 | gxp | Ah, ok. That's the problem. Thanks a lot. |
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| 01:26.18 | genr8_ | somiaj, actually I just checked. the NVME driver is about 30% larger on kernel 5.8 vs 4.19 |
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| 01:27.18 | genr8_ | I assume a lot of fixes have gone into it. And the signatures indicate a lot of it is written by Intel. so our Samsung or Crucial drives may not be taking full advantage of the code. I know on Windows, Samsung has their own NVME driver that improves performance over the Microsoft default |
| 01:29.01 | genr8_ | i'd wager the kernel has more impact over it than the distro |
| 01:29.05 | amlchief | however i performed a test on crucial nvme and it's driver independent on windows (even more performance than samsung) |
| 01:33.36 | genr8_ | true. well just guessing, but even if its not the driver itself, it could be the kernel's internals like overhead, memory allocation, locking/synchronization, interrupts.. that kind of plumbing |
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| 01:37.04 | amlchief | yep. sincerely when i was buying those i was expecting anything to go wrong but the linux :) was sure it would handle them firmly. |
| 01:39.24 | somiaj | Linux often lags on new hardware, though since this is important for the server side, I'm a bit surprised (wonder if RHEL has any enchancments for this) |
| 01:40.55 | genr8_ | normal person cant do much besides change distro or live with it. even 700MB/s is fast enough for me to not care that much |
| 01:43.27 | amlchief | i would go with sata III ssds at 500mb/s in appropriate hot-swappable disk slots if that speed range was acceptable for me. but not the case when you have a considerable amount of vms on the node |
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| 01:54.52 | amlchief | huh had to reformat that drive previously in windows to NTFS and it's giving 100mb/s writes under Linux now (ntfs-3g). Is ntfs-3g known for low speeds? |
| 01:55.35 | nvz | I would strongly advise you NOT to write to ntfs created on windows |
| 01:55.53 | nvz | if you must write to NTFS you should create it using the same linux tools you're going to write it with |
| 01:56.14 | amlchief | it's was just for a quick test anyway, i never use NTFS in real world |
| 01:56.52 | genr8_ | yeah I get around 150MB/s on the NTFS partition vs the 700MB/s raw partition Samsung drive |
| 01:58.40 | genr8_ | i get 120MB/s with 4k blocksize. so thats not terrible |
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| 02:07.59 | genr8_ | whats weird is while thats happening, I can see in linux the device is actually committing either 250 or 500MB/s writes then followed by periods of 0. so the host cache buffer is doing some weird stuff. If i run oflag=direct, it goes 50MB/s :p |
| 02:08.19 | genr8_ | i have no idea how it works but its not ideal in the slighest |
| 02:08.49 | genr8_ | i actually do use NTFS, but with the understanding its even worse than normal |
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| 02:12.12 | ryouma | i like to do tunefs -m 0. but i can't figure out what argument will tell me what the current reserved blocks are. also, i find that if i do tunefs -m 0 twice, it will error the second time. |
| 02:14.25 | ryouma | says it cannot find valid fs superblock the second time but not the first time |
| 02:14.31 | ryouma | (oldstable) |
| 02:17.32 | amlchief | http://paste.debian.net/1164915/ for 5.7.0-0.bpo.2-amd64. I will check the same scenario on arch/fedora live now. |
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| 02:26.22 | somiaj | ryouma: see dumpe2fs to dump all info about a ext? filesystem. |
| 02:26.57 | somiaj | ryouma: also I don't think you want -m 0, as reserved blocks really help if your drive fills up, and to keep it from getting to fraggmented if it is full |
| 02:27.14 | somiaj | though turing it down on big devices does help out |
| 02:27.55 | somiaj | amlchief: maybe check the kernel bugs and see if they have any issues raised about NVMe |
| 02:28.59 | amlchief | btw there's nothing that reports nvme speed in dmesg. the only thing does is a pcie car attached in the other slot: mlx5_core 0000:04:00.1: 63.008 Gb/s available PCIe bandwidth (8.0 GT/s PCIe x8 link) |
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| 02:30.54 | somiaj | amlchief: looking at kernel bug reports, I see this https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=204253 -- don't think it is directly related to you, but it talks about noticing speed differences with the scheduler, maybe see if different i/o schedulers affect speed that much |
| 02:31.19 | amlchief | ah, good idea |
| 02:32.10 | somiaj | amlchief: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=199875 No real info there, but this person reports fedora is way faster than some other linux they dual boot too. So maybe fedora will be faster for you, giving you something you can send the debian kernel team with info. |
| 02:32.25 | somiaj | but that is a ubuntu to fedora comparision |
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| 02:32.33 | amlchief | already downloading it |
| 02:34.06 | somiaj | oh wait I'm backwards, that rreport was fredora was slower... |
| 02:34.43 | ryouma | somiaj: well i think running it corrupted the fs |
| 02:34.59 | ryouma | somiaj: i am getting i/o error. ls shows some lines like -????????? ? ? ? ? ? dus--2020-01-07-Tue-20-23-09 |
| 02:35.09 | ryouma | i thought tunefs -m 0 was harmless |
| 02:35.43 | somiaj | was your drive almost full? I didn't think it would cause that problem. but i/o errors almost sound like hardare and not the file system. |
| 02:36.03 | somiaj | I would unmount that drive or if it is / reboot into single user mode and fsck the file system, see if that can recover things |
| 02:37.16 | somiaj | I don't think setting the reserve space to zero is not recommended, but I don't think it could break things. |
| 02:37.30 | somiaj | arg double negative there. 'not recommended to set reserve space to zero' |
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| 03:12.54 | asterismo_l | what debian version is better, wheezy or jessie? |
| 03:13.25 | asterismo_l | i'm looking for a debian version that would not require any further updates |
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| 03:15.24 | dvs | asterismo_l: neither one is updated anymore. |
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| 03:19.04 | nvz | asterismo_l: wth is that suppose to mean? would not /require/ any futher updates? |
| 03:24.19 | asterismo_l | after installing debian 10 in an old PC with two IDE drives in a RAID1 array, everything went well. After updating the kernel to a newer version, it ran update-grub and it broke grub and now i get the arch-indepenedent ELF magic, whatever that means... so if i install a debian version which wont get any more kernel updates, its fine by me |
| 03:25.01 | nvz | @.@ |
| 03:25.10 | asterismo_l | i remember debian 8 jessie as a great version |
| 03:25.13 | asterismo_l | wheezy too |
| 03:25.15 | asterismo_l | i dunno |
| 03:25.30 | nvz | first of all, you can just not upgrade any package you like, as silly as that may be.. |
| 03:25.45 | nvz | secondly, kernel upgrades do not remove the old kernel, you can just boot the old one |
| 03:26.23 | asterismo_l | on wheezy i get the systemd-free plus right? |
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| 03:26.34 | dvs | yes |
| 03:26.51 | ryouma | somiaj: thanks. all i did was unmap and unmount it, then map and mount it, and it ran fsck by itself. and it said clean. which is sort of amazing. |
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| 03:29.24 | ryouma | somiaj: this particular drive had 255g free |
| 03:29.28 | ryouma | somiaj: that dumpe2fs command printed so muchj out put (free blocks and such) that i had to interrupt it. idk what to look for. the reserved blocks are actually useful for defragmenting? so they are virtual blocks that are allocated to allow contiguity behind the scenes? id didn't know that. i thought they had no effect on fragmentation. maybe i should try 1 instead of 0 or so. |
| 03:31.26 | ryouma | i did not see anything in dumpe2fs about reserved block percent. i saw Reserved block count: 24405786. but this is after running the -m 0, so idk why it would not be 0. |
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| 03:51.40 | asterismo_l | question: i currently have a raid1 array which is an encrypted LVM. i switched to larger drives with dd and so i have the same space, how do i enlarge to the new drives capacity? |
| 03:51.48 | asterismo_l | is there any good tutorial on this? |
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| 03:54.50 | somiaj | ryouma: it might be you don't want to tune2fs a mounted file system |
| 03:56.34 | ryouma | oh... i thought i checked for that in the tunefs man page or someplace and that it was ok to do. |
| 03:57.11 | ryouma | smartctl checks out ok. it is an external drive. the computer itself is flaky, only sometimes booting. |
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| 03:57.38 | ryouma | i am just glad the drive works but dunno if i trust the "clean" that fsck said |
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| 03:57.56 | Voidablazer | is there an apt command that tells me which package provides a specific library or executable? |
| 03:58.11 | ryouma | Voidablazer: apt-file search can sort of do that |
| 03:58.13 | Voidablazer | (library or exe not installed yet) |
| 03:58.40 | ryouma | apt-file update;apt-file search "$@" |
| 03:58.46 | ryouma | then grep |
| 03:59.04 | ryouma | i think you don't need it installed |
| 03:59.51 | Voidablazer | ryouma: what is $@ ? some bash regexp? |
| 03:59.56 | nvz | yes, apt-file is for when things aren't installed |
| 04:00.04 | nvz | dpkg -S will do it for things that are installed |
| 04:00.05 | dpkg | You Fool! will do it for things that are installed is installed! |
| 04:00.11 | nvz | dpkg: shaddup |
| 04:00.11 | dpkg | No, I won't, you shaddup, you |
| 04:00.13 | ryouma | Voidablazer: bash syntax meaning "all args, each quoted" or so |
| 04:00.32 | ryouma | Voidablazer: in this case you put your pattern there |
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| 04:00.47 | Voidablazer | ryouma: oh nice |
| 04:02.41 | gasull | I have Debian 11 for Python development. I need Python 3.7 for a particular project, but Debian 11 comes with Python 3.8. Whats the cleanest way of having Python 3.7 also installed? |
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| 04:07.10 | nvz | ,v python3 |
| 04:07.11 | judd | Package: python3 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.4.2-2; stretch: 3.5.3-1; buster: 3.7.3-1; bullseye: 3.8.2-3; sid: 3.8.2-3; experimental: 3.8.5-1 |
| 04:07.42 | nvz | gasull: you should be using buster, not bullseye.. |
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| 04:08.53 | gasull | nvz: Can I have several Python versions installed? Something like the deadsnakes PPA but for Debian instead of Ubuntu? |
| 04:09.01 | nvz | there is a huge python transition taking place, is one reason python development is going to be hell in testing/unstable, testing is far more complicated due to lag getting fixes and being frozen/slushy at times.. |
| 04:09.14 | ansimita | gasull: check out https://github.com/pyenv/pyenv and its wiki page |
| 04:09.17 | nvz | you should be using some sort of container for this |
| 04:10.18 | gasull | ansimita: I'm using pipenv, which is officially recommended by Python.org, but it requires the Python versions to be installed in the system. |
| 04:11.35 | nvz | yes well officially recommended by Debian and this channel is using stable, we dont support testing/unstable here |
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| 04:12.09 | nvz | and the thing you were just linked to does not require the python version to be installed |
| 04:12.20 | nvz | so you should probably rethink how you do things |
| 04:12.45 | gasull | Yes, that's why I'm asking. |
| 04:13.12 | nvz | you should install stable, or seek help in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net |
| 04:13.14 | gasull | I need Debian 11 for some of my Neovim plugins. |
| 04:13.25 | nvz | you probably don't |
| 04:13.36 | gasull | nvz: OK, thanks. I'll ask in #debian-next |
| 04:13.49 | nvz | and youre probably going to run into all kinds of breakage and just make your life difficult for no good reason |
| 04:15.51 | gasull | nvz: I need Debian 11 for some Neovim plugins I use. And I need Python 3.7 for a particular project. The only way I see to square the circle is Debian 11 with several Python versions installed. |
| 04:16.24 | nvz | I'm willinig to bet it'd have been easier to solve the neovim problem on stable |
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| 04:18.11 | ansimita | gasull: have u tried using the latest neovim appimage on Debian stable instead of the neovim version packaged by Debian? |
| 04:18.31 | nvz | and you'd have python 3.7 already, and wouldnt be facing all kinds of pain of the python and other transitions taking place which will be slower to be resolved in testing |
| 04:18.37 | gasull | nvz: It wasn't possible, because even using apt pinning I needed to upgrade libc6 and a bunch of packages that got pulled with it. |
| 04:18.45 | ansimita | gasull: https://github.com/neovim/neovim/releases/tag/v0.4.4 |
| 04:19.00 | nvz | gasull: idk where you learned these habits of yours but hammering stuff into a system isnt the way to do it |
| 04:19.28 | nvz | you don't just go pull packages that aren't for the system.. apparently you been using ubuntu too long or something |
| 04:19.52 | nvz | there are many other solutions |
| 04:21.05 | gasull | ansimita: I try to avoid having packages that I need to update manually without apt. |
| 04:21.34 | ansimita | gasull: ok |
| 04:21.58 | nvz | you could at the very least if you insist on this due to "having to update manually without apt" have just setup a minimal testing/unstable chroot for neovim and ran it from there |
| 04:22.20 | nvz | and not put your whole system in a potentially broken and unsupportable state for one thing |
| 04:22.44 | nvz | if you couldnt be bothered to just use something like was already suggested, or backporting the package |
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| 04:23.45 | nvz | you are going to be in a world of hurt.. its not going to be just easily upgrading via apt for you in testing with the kinds of things you want to do |
| 04:23.56 | nvz | not with the things that are on the horizon |
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| 04:26.51 | gasull | nvz: I do something similar, since what I'm using is a virtual machine. Maybe I should have said that from the start. |
| 04:27.37 | Nautilus | anyone mind a dumb Q? I'm setting up a laptop to do some remote access while I take a short trip. I googled how to upgrade Strech to Buster and also have teamviewer running now. I can't figure out how to make a desktop icon for the later... tips for search terms or link appreciated. |
| 04:28.09 | nvz | gasull: yes but still you are depending on this virtual machine for your productive development purpose.. you need not break the whole VM for one thing |
| 04:28.21 | nvz | and you need not a whole VM just for this |
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| 04:29.59 | gasull | nvz: Do you have a link where it explains how to set up chroot? I've rarely used chroot. |
| 04:30.54 | nvz | gasull: I could maybe find one, but setting it up involves two packages and they're fairly straightforward I sense you probably have enough know-how that if you install and look at the manpages for these two pakcages you'll get the idea.. debootsrap and schroot |
| 04:32.17 | nvz | gasull: you use debootstrap to install a debian base into a directory, and configure schroot to that directory to run your apps easily. you can then just chroot into that directory and use apt like its a normal system, but there is no overhead of a whole other kernel and dedicated resources, and you need not install an entire system, only what is required for what you need to run in that version |
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| 04:37.07 | gasull | nvz: thank you |
| 04:39.38 | nvz | gasull: http://nvz.farted.net/neovimchroot.mp4 that link is not wgettable, but I just did the whole process and made a video of it |
| 04:40.05 | nvz | gasull: if you wanna wget that use http://debian.boxathome.net:7268/neovimchroot.mp4 instead |
| 04:41.08 | nvz | gasull: in that video in 5 minutes.. and I screwed up a few things.. heh.. so it took longer than it needed to.. but I on buster installed and ran neovim from bullseye |
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| 04:41.41 | nvz | hasn't used debootstrap or schroot in a long time, and never used neovim |
| 04:42.38 | nvz | but the point is, I illustrated by making a video and doing it in such short time, just how easy it is |
| 04:43.09 | nvz | and why I get really annoyed when people put their whole system at risk making it harder for us to support, when there are dead simple alternatives |
| 04:43.24 | ryouma | why does apt-get tell me to use apt autoremove, and then apt-autoremove does not do what it is supposed to do? http://sprunge.us/wsKMqs |
| 04:44.47 | nvz | ryouma: it looks to me like you did the removal of those packages already |
| 04:46.02 | gasull | Nautilus: I believe it depends on your desktop environment: Xfce, Gnome, KDE, etc. Find what's the desktop environment you're using and then ask in the appropiate channel, like #xfce. I don't think the question is offtopic here, but those channels know that kind of stuff better. |
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| 04:47.00 | Nautilus | gotcha, not even sure how to tell. |
| 04:48.01 | Nautilus | ... tell which desktop en |
| 04:48.05 | nvz | if you're asking how to create a desktop/menu entry its not really desktop specific |
| 04:48.11 | nvz | !which de |
| 04:48.11 | dpkg | To figure out which Desktop Environment you are using, open a terminal and type the following command: `echo $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP` see also <which dm> <which x>. |
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| 04:48.54 | nvz | various DE may have their own GUI means of doing so.. but the standard way to create either a desktop icon or menu entry, works across all DEs |
| 04:49.25 | Nautilus | got it, LXDE |
| 04:49.28 | nvz | either is done by creating a .desktop file |
| 04:50.06 | Nautilus | I'd just hoped to right click on desktop and "Create new shortcut" and supply target file field. |
| 04:50.26 | Nautilus | but will look at the couple .desktop files I have |
| 04:50.53 | nvz | yeah on many DE it is that simple |
| 04:51.25 | Nautilus | thanks |
| 04:51.28 | nvz | personally of the 7 you can choose in tasksel I'd recommend only LXQt less than LXDE :P |
| 04:52.14 | Nautilus | I just liked that it seemed minimal, what to suggest? |
| 04:52.42 | nvz | well, its not minimal |
| 04:53.01 | Nautilus | for tasbar / border size ? |
| 04:53.10 | nvz | see the breakdown I did http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/buster/ |
| 04:53.17 | nvz | its more packages, uses more ram.. etc |
| 04:53.21 | nvz | xfce is more minimal |
| 04:53.26 | nvz | mate is comparable |
| 04:53.49 | Nautilus | gotcha, more packages |
| 04:53.51 | nvz | as for the screen realestate, thats totally configurable in most any |
| 04:54.16 | nvz | Cinnamon is similar in default look to the LXDE/LXQt |
| 04:54.35 | nvz | however MATE/XFCE both allow for easily removing the excess panels and shrinking them down |
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| 04:56.16 | nvz | MATE and XFCE are probably the easiest to configure with minimal installed packages, disk and ram usage and such |
| 04:56.21 | gasull | nvz: I just watched the whole video. Thanks. |
| 04:56.29 | Nautilus | probably tried MATE on a distro 10+ years ago, also GNOME and or KDE half that ago. Maybe as an occasional user I should consider those? eg: a UI with more user convenience? |
| 04:57.05 | nvz | gasull: no problem. its a handy thing to know how to do.. schroot will even setup things like the xauth and crap so you can easily run X apps from within the schroot on the "host" xsession |
| 04:57.41 | nvz | gasull: you can always chroot to the target dir and apt install whatever you want and run it with schroot |
| 04:58.37 | nvz | gasull: and you can make as many of those as you like, to keep things cleanly self-contained, and easily duplicate them using just simple cp commands, so you dont screw up your working environment |
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| 05:00.09 | ryouma | no, autoremove did not remove the packages. i then remofed them manually. |
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| 05:03.44 | Nautilus | nvz: thanks for the comparison page |
| 05:04.17 | nvz | Nautilus: yeah, I;d like to put together an automated system to do up something a lil more fancy |
| 05:04.29 | nvz | upon each release |
| 05:05.28 | Nautilus | sounds nice but can understand the work that'd take |
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| 05:07.09 | nvz | less work than doing it manually, but enough work I haven't done it yet :P |
| 05:07.38 | nvz | for the last release I just did the stats, not also the package lists and screenshots |
| 05:07.56 | Nautilus | yeppers on the former. |
| 05:08.09 | nvz | !de usage |
| 05:08.09 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, de usage is The HDD/RAM of the 7 DE on Stretch: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE 3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M. For Buster usage, package lists, and screenshots of the same see http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/buster |
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| 05:10.22 | Nautilus | LXDE 3.0G 180M isn't light in comparison to the others? |
| 05:10.38 | nvz | thats stretch usage |
| 05:10.45 | nvz | compare that to buster on my site there |
| 05:10.48 | nvz | things changed |
| 05:10.50 | Nautilus | oh |
| 05:11.18 | nvz | another reason I really dont care for lx* is cause they use wicd which is notiously unreliable |
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| 05:11.37 | Nautilus | sorry, what wicd |
| 05:11.54 | nvz | ,i wicd |
| 05:11.56 | judd | Package wicd (net, optional) in buster/amd64: wired and wireless network manager - metapackage. Version: 1.7.4+tb2-6; Size: 24.4k; Installed: 35k; Homepage: https://launchpad.net/wicd; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/wicd |
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| 05:12.38 | nvz | its the network management software installed with LXDE and LXQt and its not reliable enough imho to even be in stable |
| 05:13.15 | Nautilus | ohhhh my wifi? yea that's been a bit of a pain |
| 05:15.10 | Nautilus | thanks a bunch |
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| 05:31.02 | nvz | Nautilus: well wicd is an entire network framework, its not only for wifi.. but yeah.. all the other 5 DE use network-manager, only LXDE and LXQt use wicd |
| 05:32.32 | Nautilus | sheesh. Thanks again. |
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| 05:55.16 | bigfluff | so what is 'the debian way' to host a virtual machine? |
| 05:55.29 | bigfluff | virtualbox is outside of debian repos, so i am assuming there is a more accepted method? |
| 05:57.15 | jmcnaught | bigfluff: I use virt-manager, which is a GUI for libvirt, which uses qemu and KVM for virtual machines. |
| 05:58.56 | bigfluff | tabs into apt-install |
| 05:59.41 | jmcnaught | https://wiki.debian.org/KVM |
| 05:59.44 | somiaj | bigfluff: the virtualbox packages from oracle work just fine as well |
| 06:00.18 | bigfluff | jmcnaught: this looks like it will do perfectly |
| 06:00.40 | somiaj | due to oracle policy we cannot support the packages in debian, but many use it. I prefer qemu-kvm as it works great for linux vms and is native in the linux kernel (no thrid party module), but if you need to do various windows vms, virtualbox I think is still better (though my few windows vm run just fine) |
| 06:01.01 | bigfluff | somiaj: yes, was just hoping to have one less repository to deal with + kernel mods etc |
| 06:01.20 | bigfluff | sounds like we are about on the same page :) |
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| 06:09.54 | tohoyn | I get the following error in /var/log/messages: An active wireless connection, in infrastructure mode, involves no access point? |
| 06:10.02 | tohoyn | and my network does not work |
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| 06:12.31 | tohoyn | can you help me with this? |
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| 06:12.44 | nvz | tohoyn: with what exactly? |
| 06:13.02 | tohoyn | nvz: I need to get the network working |
| 06:13.18 | tohoyn | wifi does not start up |
| 06:13.34 | nvz | tohoyn: perhaps you could be more specific? there are many different ways of doing this |
| 06:13.56 | tohoyn | nvz: what information do you need? |
| 06:14.00 | nvz | tohoyn: are you trying to use a desktop environment of some sort? |
| 06:14.23 | tohoyn | I use gnome |
| 06:14.32 | nvz | so network-manager then? |
| 06:14.41 | tohoyn | yes, exactly |
| 06:14.52 | nvz | you are clicking on the little icon and selecting an AP and its not connecting? |
| 06:15.04 | tohoyn | the icon does not appear |
| 06:15.12 | tohoyn | in the status row |
| 06:15.31 | nvz | tohoyn: ok, well the icon not showing up could mean there is a problem with network-manager itself, check systemctl status network-manager |
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| 06:15.42 | tohoyn | wait a minute |
| 06:16.05 | nvz | tohoyn: I can give you a single command to provide all relevant info in a pastebin if you like |
| 06:16.48 | tohoyn | yes |
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| 06:17.15 | nvz | tohoyn: (uname -a;lsusb;lspci;pkexec dmesg|grep firmware;systemctl status network-manager)|nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 06:17.22 | nvz | that should return a url with the output |
| 06:17.46 | nvz | and cover all the basics |
| 06:18.09 | nvz | tohoyn: actually |
| 06:18.17 | nvz | tohoyn: (uname -a;lsusb;lspci -nn;pkexec dmesg|grep firmware;systemctl status network-manager)|nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 06:18.22 | nvz | forgot the -nn on lspci |
| 06:19.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1109] by debhelper |
| 06:19.14 | tohoyn | please wait |
| 06:19.20 | darsie | aliexpess search fails on FireFox 68.11.0esr (64-bit). Works on FF 68.9.0 on android. |
| 06:19.59 | darsie | aliexpress.com * |
| 06:20.16 | nvz | darsie: please apt update and apt upgrade |
| 06:20.20 | darsie | k |
| 06:20.33 | nvz | darsie: I just tried it on buster, which I updated today to 10.6 and its working fine here |
| 06:21.03 | nvz | current version is 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1 |
| 06:21.19 | nvz | ,v firefox-esr |
| 06:21.20 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 68.9.0esr-1~deb8u2; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 78.3.0esr-2; sid: 78.3.0esr-2 |
| 06:22.39 | darsie | topic says 10.5. |
| 06:23.05 | nvz | yes well, updating the topic is beyond my control |
| 06:23.24 | nvz | a point release was just made within the last day or so |
| 06:23.50 | nvz | and I assure you 68.11.0esr is not the current version on any debian release right now |
| 06:24.19 | darsie | yeah, yeah, I saw it's in the upgrade list. |
| 06:24.22 | nvz | I've just launched firefox and went to aliexpress.com and searched and it seems to work fine here |
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| 06:24.33 | darsie | got a new kernel, too. rebooting ... |
| 06:24.36 | tangarora | what is the official way to change the dns server used for name resolution in debian? |
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| 06:25.03 | nvz | tangarora: that would likely depend on how you configure your network |
| 06:25.17 | tangarora | my network is static |
| 06:25.26 | tangarora | no gui |
| 06:25.26 | nvz | tangarora: using /etc/netowrk/interfaces ? |
| 06:26.16 | *** mode/#debian [+o themill] by ChanServ |
| 06:26.20 | nvz | you can still be using any number of things without a GUI.. /e/n/i, countless cli/curses frontends for it, network-manager, wicd, etc.. |
| 06:26.21 | tangarora | yes, and setup in bridging mode |
| 06:26.34 | *** topic/#debian by themill -> Current Debian release is buster, 10.6 point release /msg dpkg 10.6; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Stretch has limited LTS support: /msg dpkg stretch-lts ; /msg dpkg 9.13 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 06:26.39 | tangarora | br0 is my interface |
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| 06:26.58 | nvz | I'd say you should be able to set that in the br0 stanza then |
| 06:27.01 | tangarora | this is a kvm server, and it keeps "forgetting" the dns so it cannot update |
| 06:27.34 | tohoyn | nvz: I'm not able to use nc now |
| 06:27.38 | tangarora | dns-nameservers 8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4 is in my interfaces config |
| 06:27.56 | tangarora | Still it forgets... |
| 06:28.04 | nvz | tohoyn: not unless you have wired network |
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| 06:28.13 | tohoyn | nvz: the last line of the output is: Unit network-manager.service could not be found. |
| 06:28.23 | tangarora | and tries to broadcast for dns as stated in the /etc/resolv.conf |
| 06:28.38 | somiaj | dns-nameservers won't do anything without resolvconf (or openresolv) installed |
| 06:28.42 | nvz | tohoyn: you're likely going to need to get network connectivity cause it sounds like network-manager isnt installed |
| 06:28.50 | nvz | tohoyn: dpkg -L network-manager |
| 06:29.10 | tohoyn | wait |
| 06:29.31 | nvz | tohoyn: it should say ii network-manager if its installed |
| 06:29.39 | nvz | tohoyn: dpkg -l network-manager |
| 06:29.44 | nvz | lowercase l.. heh |
| 06:29.52 | nvz | I am distracted |
| 06:30.03 | tangarora | whatever i put in /etc/resolv.conf it gets replaced with nameserver 127.0.0.53 |
| 06:30.32 | tohoyn | nvz: dpkg -L network-manager gives a long listing of files. the package should be installed |
| 06:30.49 | nvz | tohoyn: yeah I made a mistake with the capital L, but if it lists files then its installed |
| 06:30.57 | tangarora | and then: Could not resolve 'archive.canonical.com' |
| 06:31.04 | somiaj | tangarora: might want ot locate what is overriting it, but 'resolvconf' will fix all your issues |
| 06:31.09 | tohoyn | the problem started suddenly when I played with bluetooth |
| 06:31.16 | tohoyn | it worked before |
| 06:31.36 | tangarora | somiaj: resolveconf? |
| 06:31.55 | nvz | tohoyn: ls -l /lib/systemd/system/NetworkManager.service |
| 06:32.48 | tohoyn | wait |
| 06:33.39 | nvz | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1276 Oct 4 2019 /lib/systemd/system/NetworkManager.service |
| 06:34.03 | nvz | if your output significantly differs from that other than the date, then its a problem |
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| 06:34.18 | jmcnaught | tangarora: do you have archive.canonical.com in your sources.list on Debian? Not a good idea. |
| 06:34.28 | somiaj | ,i resolvconf |
| 06:34.29 | judd | Package resolvconf (net, optional) in buster/amd64: name server information handler. Version: 1.79; Size: 72.4k; Installed: 191k; Homepage: http://alioth.debian.org/projects/resolvconf/ |
| 06:34.47 | darsie | I still get this error https://i.imgur.com/55xW8mI.png after aliexpress makes me to 'slide to verify' on FF 68.12.0esr (64-bit). same without plugins. The slider says 'verified', then the error page. |
| 06:34.55 | tangarora | oops! wrong server... |
| 06:34.58 | somiaj | tangarora: that is needed for both dns-nameservers in /e/n/i to work and it locks /etc/resolv.conf and won't let other things overwrite it |
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| 06:35.59 | somiaj | darsie: let the server know about the error, that is a server error, not client. |
| 06:36.17 | tohoyn | nvz: it gives -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1122 elo 19 11:30 /lib/systemd/system/NetworkManager.service |
| 06:36.34 | somiaj | darsie: sometimes it is due to to many cookies on your end, but if clearing you crach doesn't help...but really even if it is due to cookie size on your end, they need to configure their server correctly. |
| 06:36.39 | darsie | somiaj: I already reported it. |
| 06:37.16 | darsie | Works on my FF on android. |
| 06:37.17 | somiaj | darsie: not much we can do to help, I have had a few of my servers do that due to various proxies/settings that just need to be adjusted to deal with headers correctly and so forth. |
| 06:37.59 | darsie | and it works for nvz. |
| 06:38.00 | somiaj | sure it could be that the way the older client is sending information is problemmatic, and they may just not support esr 68 and you'll have to wait for the new esr to make it into stable in that case |
| 06:38.04 | nvz | tohoyn: are you sure you didnt make a typo when doing systemctl status network-manager |
| 06:38.19 | tohoyn | I try that again |
| 06:38.29 | nvz | somiaj: yeah, it works here, sounds more like a local configuration or proxy type issue going on |
| 06:38.31 | somiaj | as I mentioned it could be due to cache/header size/cookies due to their authentication method. |
| 06:39.09 | somiaj | nvz: I have a server that works for most, but ocassinally it would fail for some users, and in all cases it was the server side not dealing with edge cases correctly (and the server logs should say what the error actually is) |
| 06:39.18 | tohoyn | nvz: please wait |
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| 06:39.42 | somiaj | my case is mostly due to openodic and authentication cookies, I had to increase various limits to make it not error out on some users (but it worked fine for most), and sometimes clearing cache/cookies fixes things |
| 06:39.45 | nvz | somiaj: hmm, yeah.. the error is vague and idk what to make of the swipe crap they talk about |
| 06:40.12 | somiaj | the error is server side (though it could be due to client side cookies/cache), but someone with access to the server logs would be needed to track down it in more detail |
| 06:40.43 | nvz | I'd try as a new user or fresh profile in FF or something |
| 06:41.10 | darsie | I keep at empty FF profile for that purpose and tried it. |
| 06:41.42 | somiaj | apache is just a beast, and sometimes edge cases cause it to break for various reasons depending on modules being used, but we can only guess what some third party server is doing. |
| 06:41.57 | jmcnaught | Firefox also has a "Safe Mode" restart with add-ons disabled button at about:support |
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| 06:42.59 | darsie | jmcgnh: "restart with addons disabled"? |
| 06:43.14 | darsie | jmcnaught: |
| 06:44.08 | jmcnaught | Instead of keeping an empty Firefox profile around you can go to about:support in the Firefox address bar, there's a button to restart the browser with add-ons disabled, for troubleshooting purposes. It has a lot of other information on that page as well. |
| 06:44.11 | darsie | still fails |
| 06:46.01 | jmcnaught | aliexpress.com is a huge site that likely has dozens or hundreds of servers, possibly in different geographic areas, possibly different servers for mobile vs. desktop browsers. |
| 06:46.07 | tohoyn | nvz: I get the following response: Unit network-manager.service could not be found |
| 06:46.38 | jmcnaught | tohoyn: what about "systemctl status NetworkManager" (spelled CamelCase)? |
| 06:46.46 | nvz | tohoyn: are you typing exactly what I said? |
| 06:46.55 | tohoyn | jmcnaught: please wait |
| 06:48.13 | jmcnaught | anyways re: aliexpress the server error isn't going to happen for everyone or all browsers, but the problem is still on the server end. |
| 06:48.32 | nvz | the service file /is/ NetworkManager.service but typing systemctl status network-manager shows that service on my system |
| 06:49.09 | jmcnaught | there's a symlink in /lib/systemd/system on buster, not sure if it existed in earlier releases or what release tohoyn is using. |
| 06:49.44 | tohoyn | jmcnaught: that command works |
| 06:49.59 | tohoyn | but I can't use nc termbin now |
| 06:50.12 | sunkan | Why are there so often new kernel versions being released now (like 4.19.0-9, 4.19.0-10, 4.19.0-11)? Is it just me that finds it a bit annoying having to cleanup old kernels as a step in patching a machine or am I doing things wrong? |
| 06:50.13 | nvz | tohoyn: is the service active and running? |
| 06:50.22 | nvz | tohoyn: are there any errors shown at the bottom? |
| 06:50.28 | jmcnaught | tohoyn: you cannot use nc because you have no network connection? |
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| 06:50.48 | tohoyn | jmcnaught: I use a Windows machine now |
| 06:50.48 | nvz | tohoyn: check also dpkg -l network-manager-gnome |
| 06:50.59 | nvz | which is the actual package that provides the icon in the panel |
| 06:52.16 | tohoyn | should I use pastebin |
| 06:52.36 | jmcnaught | tohoyn: "systemctl status NetworkManager" (as root) will tell you current status and most recent few journal entries. You can also "journalctl -u NetworkManager" to look at the journals/logs of just NetworkManager. Look for errors, or pastebin it if you can. |
| 06:52.54 | nvz | jmcnaught: the backstory on this issue is that they say after fooling with bluetooth, idk what that means exactly, their wifi is no longer working and they have no network icon in the panel anymore and got an error in /var/log/messages An active wireless connection, in infrastructure mode, involves no access point |
| 06:53.17 | nvz | for all I know at this point they've not even restarted since this issue had occured |
| 06:54.16 | tohoyn | https://paste.debian.net/1164938/ |
| 06:54.34 | tohoyn | that's the output of systemctl |
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| 07:06.03 | alex11 | sunkan, as far as i know, two reasons, 1) security fixes in a kernel branch 2) new releases in a kernel branch such that the old one can't be supported anymorer |
| 07:06.04 | alex11 | anymore |
| 07:07.31 | alex11 | not that you'd want to support it; even if there were no security fixes i think most people would want an updated kernel in that branch |
| 07:07.44 | alex11 | debian does have non security fixes |
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| 07:08.52 | sunkan | alex11: I'm just used to the stable versions having very rarely not updated the same kernel package previously, now it seems to be that almost for every point release there is a new kernel version. |
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| 07:09.29 | alex11 | i'm not sure how that works out, i assume it's just new upstream releases rather than debian deciding to update it in the point release |
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| 07:10.49 | sunkan | There is probably a good reason for why it is behaving like it is now. But I wonder if there should not be some automatic purging of the 3rd oldest and older kernels. |
| 07:11.24 | alex11 | oh, yeah, i can see it's frustrating if it takes up space and you're not consciously looking out for it |
| 07:11.38 | alex11 | you can run apt autoremove but i can see how you'd forget it (the 3rd kernel) exists |
| 07:12.35 | sunkan | I'm thinking of new linux users as well, they may not be able to understand what to do when /boot becomes full during an update. But hopefully they will have a single / filesystem instead of a separate boot. |
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| 07:15.19 | sunkan | Also if 'apt autoremove' is run before the new kernel is installed it will not recommend a removal. I have a few old installations with small /boot that can't store three kernels at the same time, but I normally update "manually" using aptitude and take care of it there. |
| 07:16.06 | sunkan | But I'm just about to update some machines using ansible and come to think of this again, will be trying the autoremove option there to see how it works. |
| 07:16.22 | alex11 | you can always file a wishlist bug but i'm not sure what the project would decide to do |
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| 07:19.09 | sunkan | I'm a bit skeptical to what the results would be. But I was also wondering if there was some old habit I have that cause the situation to arise, but I guess it is not and I will continue with the procedure as I'm used to. |
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| 07:20.36 | nvz | I too have systems with the same situation, and I've had the errors builting initrd when it gets full.. but I know how to deal with it and manually remove old kernels |
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| 07:21.39 | nvz | it is perhaps a somewhat concerning issue as default settings for using encryption will land you with a rather small /boot thats unencrypted and only large enough for about 3 kernels |
| 07:22.00 | sunkan | I also have no problem dealing with it, but I'm afraid of less experienced people may end up in unnecessary problems. |
| 07:22.50 | sunkan | nvz: Yes, I was about to mention that but was not sure if that was so, but as you say it I agree on that point. |
| 07:23.04 | alex11 | so encrypted LVM in the installer will encrypt everything *but* /boot? |
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| 07:23.22 | sunkan | Yes |
| 07:23.57 | sunkan | And the EFI partition is of course not encrypted either if EFI is being used. |
| 07:25.15 | nvz | sunkan: well to further compound your point about inexperienced users the bootloader no longer by default shows the old kernels, they're in a submenu Advanced boot options for Debian.. or something |
| 07:25.30 | nvz | most users wouldnt even think to look in there to boot an old kernel if the new one failed to fully install |
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| 07:25.45 | alex11 | i think it would be worthwhile adding a prompt to hook into apt if it discovers more than 2 kernels in /boot |
| 07:25.56 | alex11 | saying "hey, you might want to get rid of old cruft by autoremoving" |
| 07:28.15 | sunkan | Agree, although at least 'apt' will mention that autoremove will remove these packages for you if you run it. But I think a real prompt for the kernels specifically could be a good addition to that. |
| 07:28.22 | nvz | or the kernel team could have a check in the scripts postinst to make sure it succeeds and if not, due to out of space.. |
| 07:28.39 | sunkan | Maybe the graphical UI's have different semantics, I rarely use them so I don't know. |
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| 07:39.37 | alex11 | why can't i info tar? i installed texinfo-doc-nonfree and i'm still not getting it |
| 07:40.02 | genr8_ | there already is a facility to remove unused outdated kernels |
| 07:40.11 | genr8_ | i forgot what its called though. its built in |
| 07:40.29 | genr8_ | i think its set to 5 by default though |
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| 07:41.04 | genr8_ | yea /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove-kernels |
| 07:41.24 | genr8_ | DO NOT EDIT! File autogenerated by /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal |
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| 07:42.17 | genr8_ | 4 |
| 07:43.02 | sunkan | It seems that is used to "protect" the two latest kernels from being autoremoved. But is there anything that calls autoremove automatically? |
| 07:43.13 | genr8_ | perhaps not. |
| 07:43.51 | sunkan | I mean it works, but it requires the user to run "apt autoremove" after updating the system. |
| 07:44.06 | genr8_ | it does tell you to do that |
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| 07:48.20 | sunkan | Yes, but it may be easy to miss for someone not used to looking for additional tasks after updating the system. And it is not consistent as with aptitude it does not show, and with apt-get I don't know if it mentions it or not. |
| 07:49.07 | genr8_ | apt-get and apt are nearly identical so it does |
| 07:49.30 | genr8_ | aptitude is meant for doing specific things |
| 07:49.54 | sunkan | Ok, I can also understand that aptitude is more of an advanced tool so may require more knowledge of the user. |
| 07:50.38 | genr8_ | a /boot space check would be more useful |
| 07:51.40 | sunkan | Yes, that may be the main point. If that could be checked in advance it would be possible to inform about removing old kernels before running out of disk space in /boot |
| 07:51.48 | alex11 | i agree though, i recently autoremoved a kernel but i happened to already know it was there |
| 07:51.52 | alex11 | other people might not |
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| 07:55.23 | genr8_ | or maybe its time to stop recommending 256mb boot partitions in the installer, either bump it up to 512 or split the difference with 384 |
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| 07:55.58 | genr8_ | this comes up too often cause people realize they made their too small |
| 07:57.28 | alex11 | i doubt future kernels will get smaller, too |
| 07:58.00 | alex11 | every few years it's worth bumping that size limit up a bit |
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| 07:58.10 | genr8_ | yep |
| 08:00.02 | alex11 | i know the debian install manual has a section of "minimum space you'll need" |
| 08:00.13 | alex11 | if we need a larger /boot those figures have to be updated occasionally |
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| 08:06.53 | genr8_ | i have a ubuntu vm with LVM here with a 1GB boot partition on a 25GB drive |
| 08:07.35 | genr8_ | seems like they just went overkill to noob-proof it |
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| 08:09.38 | alex11 | i do like to think of debian as not just "being for advanced users" |
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| 08:13.35 | genr8_ | a 512mb default minimum makes more sense now knowing that |
| 08:14.04 | genr8_ | that would hold 9 or 10 kernels |
| 08:17.07 | Miles8of9 | why keep 9-10 kernels? Oo |
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| 08:17.25 | genr8_ | 4-5 doublesizelarge ones then. |
| 08:18.03 | genr8_ | i think people have large firwmare blobs in the initrd from stupid laptops hardware too. |
| 08:19.01 | genr8_ | it comes up often enough that people run out, idk why |
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| 08:22.47 | genr8_ | you know what I liked from Linux Mint, was the GUI Kernel release fork picker |
| 08:24.31 | Haohmaru | blasphemy |
| 08:24.53 | genr8_ | they get it from Ubuntu i believe |
| 08:25.40 | genr8_ | https://www.linuxmint.com/pictures/screenshots/tina/kernels.png |
| 08:26.17 | genr8_ | also "A warning is shown if a reboot is required after a kernel update." |
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| 08:29.01 | leventel | hey guys, I'm trying to install some private CA certs into my debian 10 container |
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| 08:29.22 | leventel | the host is running on centos |
| 08:30.22 | leventel | I've binded the directory as a volume which contains the certs |
| 08:30.54 | leventel | first I tried /usr/local/share/ca-certificates, but then update-ca-certificates did nothing |
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| 08:31.29 | leventel | so I tried /usr/share/ca-certificates/myCADirectory |
| 08:32.05 | leventel | then added the path of CA files to /etc/ca-certificates.conf |
| 08:32.21 | genr8_ | yeah you need that conf file |
| 08:32.32 | leventel | and during update-ca-certificates I got the warning |
| 08:33.01 | leventel | rehash: warning: skipping root_ca_blahblah.cer.pem, it does not contain exactly one certificate or CRL |
| 08:33.21 | genr8_ | well its not lying to you. it needs to be 1 root cert. not a chain of certs. |
| 08:33.23 | leventel | it seems it the rootCA was installed, but actually it's not working |
| 08:33.54 | leventel | yeah, so those files are working on the centos host, and I'm wondering how should I modify those files |
| 08:34.06 | leventel | yeah, it's not a liar :), I've checked the files |
| 08:34.34 | leventel | but I guess the other intermediates are also needed |
| 08:34.42 | leventel | except those were not included, right? :) |
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| 08:35.02 | genr8_ | the webserver should provide the intermediates |
| 08:35.13 | genr8_ | the root should be all thats placed into the host store |
| 08:35.41 | genr8_ | you'll have to extract the root and make it its own file. use openssl |
| 08:36.30 | leventel | ok, so I shouldn't edit the files with vi |
| 08:36.37 | genr8_ | no |
| 08:36.45 | leventel | :) |
| 08:37.17 | genr8_ | i have this command in my history, its a start. this will print whats inside it. openssl x509 -in /etc/ssl/certs/Cybertrust_Global_Root.pem -inform PEM -text -noout |
| 08:38.39 | genr8_ | i forget what command line options you need to split them up. openssl x509 --help |
| 08:38.46 | sunkan | I noticed that unattended-upgrades can autoremove the old kernel automatically. Had not noticed that before, am not using unattended-upgades that much but for some hosts it is perfectly fine. |
| 08:40.38 | genr8_ | leventel, hmm i dont see the option. time to google stackoverflow |
| 08:41.32 | genr8_ | sunkan, that works then. I always remove u-a myself |
| 08:43.59 | genr8_ | leventel, oh its "openssl pkcs12 -help" gives a useful " -cacerts Only output CA certificates" |
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| 08:48.10 | genr8_ | bah no. idk what it is. |
| 08:48.35 | oxek | sunkan: afaik unattended-upgrades only automatically removes kernels that are older than the two latest ones |
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| 08:49.15 | oxek | /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal |
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| 08:50.23 | leventel | genr8_: thanks for your help, I have to look into this deeper |
| 08:50.42 | sunkan | oxek: That is what happened on the server I looked at, and I have no problem with that. The question as I see it is whether it should happen automatically in more places. |
| 08:51.07 | genr8_ | maybe you can just text editor it. if thats how it came cat'ted together |
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| 08:53.08 | oxek | sunkan: what more places? |
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| 08:54.07 | sunkan | oxek: When updating the linux-image-<arch> causes it to pull in a new kernel maybe? |
| 08:54.52 | sunkan | oxek: I mean in a more general way, and not just prompting the user to run 'apt autoremove' as that may be easily missed by a less experienced user. |
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| 08:56.21 | sunkan | oxek: But as was mentioned a while ago maby some better checks for disk-space in /boot before trying to install a new kernel could be an option. |
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| 08:56.43 | sunkan | s/maby/maybe/ |
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| 09:05.33 | oxek | sunkan: /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal is a postinst script of the linux-image-<arch> package |
| 09:05.39 | oxek | it will be run every time a new kernel is installed |
| 09:05.57 | oxek | irrelevent of unattended-upgrades |
| 09:06.50 | oxek | oh I see what you mean |
| 09:07.08 | oxek | the way it looks, /boot will slowly fill up, yes |
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| 09:07.52 | oxek | I don't know if there's anything that makes sure a newer kernel can be installed if /boot is full of older kernels |
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| 09:10.33 | genr8_ | whats the mechanism that causes apt to call update-initramfs and update-grub ? |
| 09:12.12 | genr8_ | nevermind i found it. theres an /etc/kernel dir with preinst.d postinst.d prerm.d postrm.d and install.d |
| 09:12.29 | genr8_ | a script could be added there to check for space |
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| 09:17.23 | genr8_ | instead of /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal , you could have a preinst.d. nothings actually in that folder. |
| 09:19.21 | genr8_ | im not sure if the pre-inst script returning an error propagates up to apt so the package installation just stops, or if it just means the script failed silently. |
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| 09:20.31 | genr8_ | you should make your own script and contribute it to the community. itll be fun |
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| 09:34.14 | oxek | I wouldn't be surprised if ubuntu/mint already have something |
| 09:34.37 | oxek | there are many users who don't know anything about apt or apt autoremove |
| 09:34.46 | oxek | and /boot is limited |
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| 09:36.05 | Onyx47 | IIRC Ubuntu/Mint limit the number of kernels to 3, and their default /boot size might be larger as well |
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| 09:38.10 | oxek | Onyx47: limit to 3 - does that mean they automatically remove older kernels, or just mark them for autoremoval and expect the user to run apt autoremove? |
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| 09:44.17 | Onyx47 | I think they remove them, at least I don't remember ever having a problem with /boot partition size, nor the ability to select more than 2 kernels back in GRUB |
| 09:44.38 | Onyx47 | not that it has been a good few years since I ditched Mint so I'm working from memory here |
| 09:44.43 | Onyx47 | s/not/note |
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| 10:35.52 | Franciman | Hi |
| 10:36.08 | Franciman | What is the recommended way to update from 10.5 to 10.6? |
| 10:36.12 | Franciman | apt update && apt upgrade |
| 10:36.19 | Franciman | or apt update && apt full-upgrade or? |
| 10:36.28 | ratrace | apt upgrade suffices |
| 10:36.41 | ratrace | (after update) |
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| 10:37.07 | Franciman | thanks |
| 10:37.13 | Franciman | when do I want to use full-upgrade? |
| 10:37.30 | Haohmaru | i think when debian 11 comes out |
| 10:37.38 | ratrace | through major version upgrades, eg 10 to 11 |
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| 10:37.53 | Franciman | ok, thanks |
| 10:38.02 | Haohmaru | yeah, but those usually come with specific instructions.. |
| 10:38.14 | Haohmaru | so don't worry for full-upgrade right now |
| 10:44.14 | themill | The occasional security upgrade needs full-upgrade too btw |
| 10:44.34 | Haohmaru | hm |
| 10:45.01 | themill | It's about allowing apt to remove packages as part of the upgrade process. |
| 10:45.05 | Haohmaru | i mostly use synaptic |
| 10:46.44 | Franciman | oh I see |
| 10:46.58 | Franciman | well now I already ran apt upgrade :P |
| 10:47.07 | Franciman | brb |
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| 10:54.04 | ratrace | why are there even different upgrade actions? under which circumstances would someone want to refuse full-upgrade if that comes as a reuquirement of security or bugfix during a release |
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| 10:56.02 | ratrace | I mean, there's no alternative, not like you have a choice. there's that one upgrade that has to remove a package. you can't get the upgrade without removing the package. so why wouldn't it all be handled by single upgrade action |
| 10:56.04 | themill | Allowing apt to remove packages runs the risk that the solution it picks is "remove almost everything" rather than "upgrade almost everything but keep ths package back" |
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| 10:56.34 | ratrace | themill: sure, but why does it have to be a separate action |
| 10:56.41 | themill | so that you get to choose |
| 10:56.47 | themill | you *have* to be able to choose |
| 10:56.52 | ratrace | choose what exactly? |
| 10:57.05 | themill | Whether removing packages is acceptable or not at that point intime |
| 10:57.09 | ratrace | if an upgrade needs to remove a package, and wants me to full-upgrade, do I have a choice to do the upgrade without removal? |
| 10:57.35 | ratrace | themill: oh but that can be done through a yes/no prompt like we already have if more than one pacakge is to be touched and -y wasn't used |
| 10:57.42 | themill | If you wish to run sid, for instance, you'd typically run "upgrade" then follow that with a "full-upgrade" and decide whether the removal or not is a good idea |
| 10:57.51 | ratrace | the part I don't understand is why it needs to be a separate apt verb |
| 10:58.07 | ratrace | but we already have modifiers like --no-install-recommends |
| 10:58.22 | ratrace | so having full-upgrade instead of apt upgrade --do-full (or whtev) is confusing to me |
| 10:58.37 | themill | there are modifiers for this too; having to type in an essay rather than a separate verb is not welcome when this is needed so much |
| 10:59.03 | ratrace | well how often does one have to run full-upgrade compared to regular upgrade |
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| 10:59.24 | themill | Your argument is a bit like "why does aptitude have -R when --without-recommends is already there, we should get rid of all the short forms" |
| 10:59.32 | ratrace | does the 1.2 seconds needed to type up an --extra-flag justify the confusion with multiple verbs? esp. when there's also difference in verbiage between apt and apt-get.... |
| 10:59.40 | themill | If you're running testing or unstable, daily. |
| 11:00.30 | Haohmaru | can linux be NOT confusing? |
| 11:00.34 | ratrace | I don't think what I'm saying here compares to short vs long flag forms |
| 11:00.34 | themill | There isn't really confusion btw. It's not as complicated as you're making it out to be. |
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| 11:01.15 | ratrace | it's not complicated. once you read the manpage, the difference is understandable. I was just wondering why's there different actions to begin with since conceptually that's just a modifier to otherwies regular upgrade |
| 11:01.25 | ratrace | and apparently new users do find it confusing |
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| 11:02.10 | ratrace | Haohmaru: I'd just like to interject for a moment... |
| 11:02.35 | themill | We'd just end up having to explain that sometimes a security update needs "apt upgrade --some-extra-essay-to-allow-removals" and sometimes it doesn't. The complexity wouldn't be gone. |
| 11:03.08 | ratrace | or have apt upgrade to everything, removals included, and have a --flag that prevents it, since that I thin kwould be exception, rather than a rule |
| 11:03.17 | ratrace | (to prevent a removal for a needed upgrade) |
| 11:03.58 | ratrace | esp. if you run testing and sid, you've signed the contract whre you expect that to happen often :) |
| 11:04.03 | themill | no, that would be very unwelcome. If you're running anything other than (old)stable or you get your pinning wrong, you'd end up with a mess |
| 11:04.15 | themill | also, changing the meaning is a no-go. |
| 11:04.32 | Haohmaru | i hadn't heard that "a security upgrade can require packages to be removed" |
| 11:04.39 | ratrace | now, after all these years, I suppose it's a no go yes, POLA violation and all that |
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| 11:05.01 | themill | Haohmaru: it's not common. I can only think of a handful of cases where that was true from the past couple of decades |
| 11:05.30 | Haohmaru | what i normally do is, i periodically run synaptic, press Reload, then press "Mark all upgrades", then "Apply" |
| 11:05.32 | themill | Most recent one was a java upgrade that forced the java plugin package to be removed as it was no longer supported |
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| 11:06.33 | themill | that was in the 9.8 point release |
| 11:06.48 | Haohmaru | i have the feeling that synaptic is able to mark packages for removal tho, i *think* i might have seen it |
| 11:07.20 | themill | I haven't used synaptic in years, but once upon a time its default action was dist-upgrade. It was great for breaking installations. |
| 11:07.35 | Haohmaru | *shrug* |
| 11:07.45 | ratrace | debian is very fragile, that way |
| 11:07.50 | Haohmaru | i've been using synaptic since early debian9 |
| 11:08.20 | themill | ratrace: well, the protection mechanism you're advocating removing is there for exactly that problem.... |
| 11:08.22 | Haohmaru | used the actual "apt" and stuff mostly for the upgrade to debian 10 |
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| 11:08.57 | Haohmaru | and i've rarely used "apt-get" by hand to install dumb things which i know the names of |
| 11:09.18 | ratrace | themill: thing is, if a I get a package upgrade in stalbe that wants to remove somethign, I'm none the wiser whether I should or shouldn't accept it, and I assume that's what's intended to be |
| 11:09.22 | Haohmaru | most of the time, i wanna browse the stuff and click around and read descriptions and search and see screenshots.. |
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| 11:09.58 | ratrace | of course, I'd test such upgrades before production, but I'd have little datapoint as to whether I should or should not accept it, other than knowing for a fact that some application I use or wrote myself, needs that particular version that's slated for removal |
| 11:10.18 | themill | ratrace: it could also be because of a misconfiguration on your part or something odd with a 3rd party repo or â¦; that's why you read the DSA as it will normally say if special action is required. |
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| 11:45.26 | rootkea | Hi! I just installed Debian 10.6.0 amd64 xfce. But then after installation when I rebooted the machine, Debian boot failed with message "Failed to start Cryptography setup for luks-*". screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/RMfvz6P.jpg |
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| 11:46.23 | rootkea | journalctl -xb shows "systemd-cryptseup: Failed to open key file" followed by "systemd-cryptseup: Failed to activate with key file '/crypto_keyfile.bin': Invalid argument" screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/C8hr5fe.jpeg |
| 11:47.01 | rootkea | A day before yesterday I installed 10.5.0 and on first reboot it showed the same error message. |
| 11:47.28 | rootkea | How do I login in freshly installed Debian? Thanks! |
| 11:47.55 | rootkea | I chose to encrypt /home at the time of installation |
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| 11:48.35 | JyZyXEL | i don't think systemd still supports crypttab keyscript= |
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| 11:50.05 | rootkea | JyZyXEL, As an user I ticked "encrypt" and supplied the passphrase at installation and expected to be welcomed by freshly installed OS... |
| 11:50.24 | JyZyXEL | are you able to manually activate the decryption with --keyfile /crypto_keyfile.bin? |
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| 11:51.30 | rootkea | JyZyXEL, umm how do I do that? FWIW root account was disabled. I enabled it using init=/bin/sh grub parameter and then setting the passwd |
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| 11:54.40 | JyZyXEL | something like: cryptsetup --key-file /crypto_keyfile.bin open --type luks /dev/... lukshome |
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| 11:58.04 | rootkea | JyZyXEL, what is "lukshome"? Is that a random name? |
| 12:00.08 | JyZyXEL | name under which the resulting decrypted device will be mapped to |
| 12:00.54 | rootkea | JyZyXEL, Anyways, I executed that command and it says "Failed to open key file" |
| 12:01.17 | JyZyXEL | does the key file exist? can you read it? |
| 12:01.31 | rootkea | And also `ls -a /` doesn't show crypto_keyfile.bin |
| 12:01.54 | JyZyXEL | well there's (one) of your problems |
| 12:03.11 | rootkea | JyZyXEL, Installer asked me to encrypt or not. I checked "encrypt" and then supplied the passphrase. Clearly something is broken with the installer. |
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| 12:03.51 | rootkea | a. How do I fix this? b. Where do I report this issue (so that no uzer-side fix is needed anymore)? |
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| 12:04.12 | rootkea | s/uzer-side/user-side |
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| 12:05.04 | ratrace | rootkea: the installer doesn't create a keyfile. your passhprase, that's it |
| 12:05.23 | ratrace | also, for luks, passphrase and keyfile are essentially same thing. you can echo it into a file and use it as keyfile |
| 12:05.48 | rootkea | ratrace, Ah so my passphrase is the issue here? |
| 12:05.51 | ratrace | just be careful you don't echo newline as well, so something like echo -n "yourpassphrase" > keyfile |
| 12:06.28 | rootkea | Okay let me try that |
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| 12:07.29 | ratrace | also I dont recall debian using systemd crypto anything. debian has its own initramfs tools for that, based around crypttab and keyscripts. did anything change there recently? by recently I mean buster and onward? |
| 12:09.47 | rootkea | ratrace, I created /crypto_keyfile.bin as you suggested and then again cryptseup open which succeeded I think since no errors. |
| 12:09.53 | rootkea | Now should I reboot? |
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| 12:10.58 | ratrace | rootkea: try it, but maybe pastebin first your crypttab, fstab and /etc/default/grub |
| 12:11.50 | rootkea | ratrace, success! I just logged in xfce! |
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| 12:12.11 | JyZyXEL | ratrace: systemd handles crypttab entries as well |
| 12:12.50 | ratrace | JyZyXEL: yea I know, but the question is how it's set up. looking at my setups, indeed I have to explicitely shush systemd so initramfs-tools only utilities are used |
| 12:12.50 | JyZyXEL | i think initramfs only opens cryptroot and the targets with "initramfs" option set |
| 12:13.04 | ratrace | ie. luks.crypttab=no in kernel options |
| 12:13.25 | ratrace | JyZyXEL: yes, that's some bug somethign something, but iirc installer does it. |
| 12:13.46 | ratrace | haven't used encryption from installer in a while, I almost always use debootstrap to install debian, so I could be wrong about its defaults. |
| 12:14.04 | ratrace | I do know, as you suggested, that systemd crypttab support is very lacking, esp. with keyscripts |
| 12:14.52 | JyZyXEL | i've been using debootstrap and chroot exclusively for very long also |
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| 12:19.41 | rootkea | ratrace, Here are crypttab, fstab and /etc/default/grub http://paste.debian.net/1164974/ |
| 12:20.07 | JyZyXEL | keyscript=/bin/cat whyy? |
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| 12:21.06 | ratrace | I'm not really sure what constructed that crypttab, I don't recall the installer being that dumb |
| 12:21.21 | JyZyXEL | that crypttab is missing the <key file> column |
| 12:21.48 | JyZyXEL | the third field should be the key file path |
| 12:21.51 | Haohmaru | the cat stole the key |
| 12:21.53 | ratrace | but... rootkea .... if it works now, don't touch it. otherwise you could replace that /crypto_keyfile.bin with none and drop the ,keyscript=/bin/cat option |
| 12:22.03 | ratrace | update-initramfs -u to update |
| 12:22.24 | ratrace | BUT ..... $1M question...... WHERE is that crypto_keyfile.bin located? in unencrypted /boot ? |
| 12:22.33 | ratrace | rootkea: ^^ |
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| 12:24.48 | JyZyXEL | might as well not encrypt in that case |
| 12:25.22 | ratrace | indeedy |
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| 12:27.50 | rootkea | ratrace, I'm sorry but this is not what was intended at all. It doesn't ask for passphrase to decrypt /home. I think explicitly creating /crypto_keyfile.bin bypasses that. |
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| 12:28.59 | ratrace | rootkea: well if you do as I said, removed keyfile and put "none" (no quotes) in the column, and removed keyscript, it's gonna ask for passphrase. might need to add "initramfs" (no quotes) option to crypttab, so it unlocks on boot |
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| 12:29.40 | ratrace | because right now if that keyfile is on a plaintext device like unencrypted rootfs or /boot .... that encryption is completely useless |
| 12:30.41 | ratrace | I missed the part whre you said only /home was encrypted. I alwyas do FDE, not individual partitions, so I can't tell what other traps there are if the installer did _this_ |
| 12:34.59 | oxek | I don't remember the installer having an option to encrypt just /home |
| 12:35.13 | oxek | ubuntu has it though |
| 12:35.48 | ratrace | the plot thickens! |
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| 13:04.41 | bluesmith | hey guys, just installed emacs and wanted to try it out but the built in manual isn't available, how can I fix this? I'm on i386 arch |
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| 13:06.22 | bluesmith | I got this error on the message buffer "user-error: Info file emacs does not exist" |
| 13:06.40 | greycat | ,file emacs.info |
| 13:06.46 | judd | Search for emacs.info in buster/amd64: wml: usr/share/wml/data/logos/logo-xemacs.info; elpa-notmuch: usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/elpa-src/notmuch-0.28.4/notmuch-emacs.info |
| 13:07.00 | greycat | *shrug* I tried |
| 13:07.20 | greycat | ,file emacs.info.gz |
| 13:07.24 | judd | Search for emacs.info.gz in buster/amd64: xemacs21-support: usr/share/info/xemacs21/xemacs.info.gz; emacs-common-non-dfsg: usr/share/info/emacs/emacs.info.gz |
| 13:07.38 | greycat | ok, that looks promising. try installing emacs-common-non-dfsg |
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| 13:14.17 | bluesmith | greycat judd emacs-common-non-dfsg does not exist for my architecture |
| 13:14.24 | greycat | It's probably in non-free. |
| 13:15.00 | rootkea | ratrace, I deleted explicitly created /crypto_keyfile.bin, set <password> to "none" and removed "keyscript=/bin/cat" from <options> as you suggested and now Debian asks for passphrase to decrypt /home on boot! Thanks! |
| 13:15.03 | bluesmith | I only want to use main, guess I'll just get the pdf manual |
| 13:16.09 | rootkea | ratrace, But now I feel like this needs to be reported as we surely don't want user to jump these hoops to login in freshly installed Debian... |
| 13:16.36 | oxek | rootkea: you're the first to report this in a year of debian 10 |
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| 13:17.06 | rootkea | oxek, I can reproduce this with 10.5.0 as well as 10.6.0 |
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| 13:18.22 | oxek | rootkea: can you link the guide you're following to install debian, or do a writeup of the exact steps to reproduce it? |
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| 13:18.50 | oxek | starting from booting the installation cd, with the hard drive being blank |
| 13:19.21 | rootkea | oxek, I just checked "encrypt" while creating /home and supplied the passphrase. Nothing fancy |
| 13:19.47 | oxek | is that the graphical installer or text installer? Expert or default? etc. |
| 13:19.57 | rootkea | default graphical |
| 13:20.08 | rootkea | Click on "Install debian" in live mode |
| 13:20.35 | oxek | using a livecd then? |
| 13:20.37 | oxek | which one? |
| 13:20.40 | rootkea | Oh and I set the partition table to be GPT instead of MBR. That's it. |
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| 13:21.28 | rootkea | oxek, debian-live-10.5.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree.iso and debian-live-10.6.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree.iso |
| 13:21.39 | oxek | ok, I'll test it in a vm |
| 13:21.44 | greycat | -live strikes again, I'm guessing. |
| 13:22.11 | rootkea | oxek, Thank you! :) |
| 13:22.14 | greycat | I do *not* understand why half the people in the damned world think they should install Debian from a -live image |
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| 13:22.31 | ratrace | because they can try it out and browse the net while it installs? :) |
| 13:22.41 | joepublic | probably not realizing just how it's different from real d-i, I suppose. |
| 13:22.43 | dvs | greycat: because they are too lazy to pick the DE manually after a normal install |
| 13:22.56 | ratrace | it's a valid idea. bad only if -live is known to be .... poor for installation |
| 13:23.33 | derpadmin | i'm in the good half I guess |
| 13:24.56 | rootkea | oxek, Please let me know if you want me to reinstall fresh (creating fesh partition table and partitions etc) and write all the steps I take. |
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| 13:25.43 | oxek | rootkea: I'll first see if I can reproduce it myself |
| 13:25.52 | rootkea | Sure :) |
| 13:28.20 | fireba11 | greycat: netinstall ftw :-D |
| 13:29.38 | rootkea | fireba11, I netinstalled on my own machine but this was friend's which I wanted to set up quickly hence the xfce iso instead of standard. :) |
| 13:30.59 | dvs | !win me |
| 13:30.59 | dpkg | Congratulations, dvs! You have won a one way ticket to Gaza! |
| 13:31.08 | dvs | damn! |
| 13:31.18 | ratrace | the installer from ISO doesn't have such options (gpt, keyfile, ...) you have to use manual partitioning to set up encrypted /home only ... is -live using some other installer? |
| 13:31.32 | ratrace | from *netinst ISO |
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| 13:32.31 | rootkea | select "manual partitioning" then create GPT partition table and then create partitions. While creating /home select "encrypt" and set the passphrase. |
| 13:33.14 | ratrace | there aren't such options in the netinst ISO installer. is -live using some other installer? |
| 13:33.54 | ratrace | or maybe that's bullseye and not buster? |
| 13:34.11 | greycat | they said 10.5 and 10.6 |
| 13:34.50 | ratrace | well I'm looking at the 10.5 installer right now. I can't find where to do GPT instead of MBR partitioing.... maybe I'm blind... |
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| 13:35.18 | rootkea | IIRC "create partition table" |
| 13:35.28 | ratrace | I did that, never offered an option |
| 13:35.52 | rootkea | Ah, let me plug the usb again.. |
| 13:36.01 | oxek | it's calamares installer |
| 13:37.11 | ratrace | I had that for lunch day before yesterday :) |
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| 13:37.27 | katyucha | HI |
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| 13:39.22 | ratrace | wellp, I can't see the option to select between GPT and MBR in the netinst installer, graphical or textual mode |
| 13:39.37 | rootkea | ratrace, When I select "New partition table" then "Create Partition Table" dialog appears offering two choices: MBR and GPT |
| 13:39.53 | oxek | I see the options rootkea is talking about, installation is ongoing |
| 13:40.00 | oxek | ratrace: netinstaller will not have this |
| 13:40.05 | ratrace | if -live has that, then it's not the same installer program, at least not with teh same features |
| 13:40.08 | oxek | ratrace: it's only on -live |
| 13:40.15 | ratrace | oxek: I see |
| 13:40.34 | oxek | calamares vs d-i |
| 13:40.52 | ratrace | and also the netinst installer creates sdX_crypt mapped devices. that luks-<UUID> thing ... is also -live specific it seems |
| 13:43.18 | oxek | the installer is very slow... |
| 13:44.02 | rootkea | oxek, It takes quite a time at 26%-27% |
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| 13:44.48 | oxek | I wonder if it's trying to overwrite the entire hdd before encrypting /home |
| 13:45.04 | oxek | didn't give me the option to skip that |
| 13:45.25 | ogo | what is the debian way of installing pycharm (python IDE)? |
| 13:45.58 | ratrace | ogo: I download the tarbal and unpack it in /opt/pycharm/pycharm-version , then symlink pycharm.sh to ~/bin/pycharm |
| 13:46.16 | ratrace | ogo: if you dislike that, you can use the snap, or flatpak if it exists. |
| 13:48.16 | ogo | ratrace, i suppose i wiil try unpacking the tarball, would it then just link the right library paths for already installed python packages? |
| 13:49.18 | ratrace | ogo: to run pycharm, it only needs java and it comes with its own jre. once run, the IDE manages python venvs, lib paths, per project, globaly, etc.... |
| 13:49.37 | greycat | ... java? |
| 13:49.41 | ratrace | java |
| 13:49.48 | ratrace | it's a intellij based IDE |
| 13:50.50 | ogo | ratrace, do you also use pip? |
| 13:51.10 | ratrace | ogo: yes, I manually manage virtualenvs, and I use it in virtualenvs, never ousside |
| 13:53.37 | oxek | rootkea: confirmed, system does not boot properly |
| 13:53.49 | oxek | -live installer is broken when choosing to encrypt /home |
| 13:54.00 | ratrace | brilliant. |
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| 13:54.21 | greycat | !debian-live |
| 13:54.21 | dpkg | The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. NOT recommended for installing Debian. Live images are available from http://www.debian.org/CD/live/ . https://wiki.debian.org/DebianLive #debian-live on irc.debian.org; also see <live login>, <uefi live>. |
| 13:54.35 | oxek | nobody spotted it because nobody uses -live to install debian, and even fewer choose to manually partition and pick encryption for /home |
| 13:54.40 | greycat | you could ask them how to report the bug in the most useful way |
| 13:54.50 | rootkea | oxek, Thanks for confirming! Where does this needs to be reported? |
| 13:55.03 | oxek | probably using reportbug for calamares |
| 13:55.11 | ratrace | or do what greycat said |
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| 13:57.12 | ogo | ratrace, do you ever use apt (or aptitude) to install python libs or do you only use pip? |
| 13:59.02 | ratrace | ogo: only pip. |
| 13:59.24 | ratrace | but that's because we're a python shop, our flagship apps are in python so I need 100% control over the ecosystem |
| 14:00.42 | ogo | ratrace, ah ok. do you recommend your set up for beginner python users? or is it too complex? |
| 14:02.00 | ogo | right now my set up is a mess: i have *.deb python libs, pip libs and even an installation of anacond. all because each tutorial i read suggests a different way |
| 14:02.03 | ratrace | ogo: virtualenvs are better for beginners because they're isolated environments (for python dependencies, libs, paths) |
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| 14:02.19 | oxek | +1 for virtualenvs |
| 14:02.22 | ratrace | one of common beginner mistakes is using pip as root which is a BIG NO-NO |
| 14:02.29 | fireba11 | :-D |
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| 14:02.55 | fireba11 | ratrace: i'd say every use of pip and npm is a no-no but i get your point ;-) |
| 14:03.40 | ratrace | fireba11: pip inside virtualenv is only natural |
| 14:04.03 | fireba11 | guess if you ahve to use it that's the way to do it ... |
| 14:04.19 | ratrace | pip is the defacto package manager for python |
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| 14:22.20 | rootkea | oxek, Done! https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=971266 |
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| 14:27.11 | ratrace | rootkea: cool! |
| 14:28.39 | ogo | ratrace, so i would still need to install deb pacakges python3-venv, virtualenv and python3-virtualenv ? |
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| 14:29.25 | ratrace | ogo: yes, to create and manage virtualenvs. basically you only need `virtualenv`, and it'll pull in what else is needed |
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| 14:30.36 | ogo | ratrace, ok, then should i have .deb package python-pip via apt too? |
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| 14:35.18 | ratrace | ogo: python-pip-whl is pulled in by virtualenv |
| 14:36.23 | ratrace | but `virtualenv` only installs initial pip in the venv. you can then further pip install -U pip to upgrade it from pypi in the venv |
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| 14:37.15 | ratrace | (hence the -whl, that is only the wheel version for using pip inside venv) |
| 14:39.24 | ogo | ratrace, thanx. then i will unpack the pycharm tarball in /opt and after that if i need additional python package i shouldn't use pip from linux command line, i should only use pip from isnide the virtual env. is that right? |
| 14:41.13 | ratrace | ogo: yes. pycharm has the ability to create and install into virtualenvs, from Project settings |
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| 14:41.39 | ratrace | or you can, on the command line, `activate` the venv and use pip directly. it all assumes you know how virtualenvs work... |
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| 14:42.57 | ogo | well no i don't but i will read up on that. |
| 14:43.03 | ogo | thanx for the help |
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| 14:44.53 | ratrace | ogo: please do, but in short, virtualenvs are just directories inside which the python interpreter and its libs and _modules_ are installed. think of it as "chroot" but for python projects. |
| 14:45.24 | ratrace | when you "activate" it, you essentially alter your PATH so that `python` refers to the binary inside that dir, and not the system python binary. that binary inside the venv dir is built to always refer to libs inside that dir |
| 14:46.05 | ratrace | you can link to system python modules with --system-site-packages, but I always prefer to keep them fully isolated, thus --no-system-packages (which is default) |
| 14:46.38 | ratrace | important to note is that a venv is only a PATH alteration, so `python` and any `import` statements in it, will refer to modules in that venv |
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| 14:47.17 | ratrace | that way you can keep multiple python versions and package versions and module versions and everything else, isolated between projects, each in its own virtualenv. now go read about it for all the juicy details and traps |
| 14:47.48 | ogo | yes this is a good starting point. |
| 14:48.04 | ws2k3 | im trying to unmount a filesystem. but i keep getting target is busy im trying to find out which proces this might be. lsof en fuser did not show anything usefull. any other things i could try? |
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| 14:50.47 | ratrace | ws2k3: is it your CWD perchance? |
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| 14:54.47 | ws2k3 | ratrace: hehe no thats not it ^^ |
| 14:55.06 | ratrace | ws2k3: submounts? |
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| 14:56.13 | ws2k3 | ratrace: no as far as i can see no submounts the same block device is mounted on multiple locations but i think that should not matter? |
| 14:57.03 | ratrace | dunno, depends I suppose. can you be more precise? what filesystem, what kind of bind mounts are there, etc... |
| 14:58.13 | ws2k3 | ratrace: its a /dev/drbd0 mounted onto /storagegl-bilder |
| 14:58.32 | ws2k3 | ratrace: the /dev/drbd0 is mounted on multiple locations on the fs. but that should not matter i think |
| 14:59.23 | ratrace | oof. zero experience with drbd. can't help with that, sowwy. |
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| 15:01.49 | derpadmin | did you stop drbd before trying to unmount? |
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| 15:02.53 | absinthe_ | hello, is there a way to define tasks that'd execute after a specific package upgrade ? |
| 15:03.32 | ws2k3 | derpadmin: unfortunaly its in production |
| 15:04.56 | derpadmin | ws2k3, I have the feeling the process is using the mount |
| 15:05.08 | derpadmin | this is block level replication... |
| 15:05.24 | derpadmin | can you do a strace of the drbd process |
| 15:05.30 | derpadmin | you might see it there |
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| 15:09.27 | ws2k3 | derpadmin: findmnt --kernel -n --list | grep '\[' |
| 15:09.27 | ws2k3 | /export/nfs4/storageGL-Bilder /dev/dm-0[/storageGL-Bilder] ext4 rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro,data=ordered |
| 15:09.39 | ws2k3 | i think this means its a bindmount |
| 15:10.43 | derpadmin | ah, possible yes |
| 15:10.54 | derpadmin | I rarely use bindbounts... |
| 15:11.02 | derpadmin | *bindmounts |
| 15:12.53 | oxek | on debian, which is the correct file where to set $EDITOR for current user? Probably not ~/.bashrc |
| 15:13.05 | oxek | perhaps ~/.profile ? |
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| 15:14.05 | greycat | Depends on how you log in. ~/.profile only works for shell logins, and MAYBE wayland sessions, because someone told me wayland uses it, maybe possibly. |
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| 15:16.16 | oxek | every distro does this differently, and I can't keep track :( |
| 15:17.09 | codedmart80 | I am trying to use my jaybird bluetooth headphones. I want to use the mic as well. If I use HSP/HFP it seems to work for both, but the audio is horrible. If I select a2dp playback the audio sounds good, but it uses the internal laptop mic. If I select a2dp capture in the mic settings the output goes to the laptop speakers. |
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| 15:19.52 | bluesmith | just installed emacs a while ago and after "apt remove emacs" and autroremove it's still there even after a reboot, why is it not uninstalling or how can I completely remove it? I even reinstalled it and did a purge but nothing changed |
| 15:20.14 | oxek | bluesmith: emacs-gtk |
| 15:20.23 | bluesmith | just emacs |
| 15:20.33 | oxek | I mean, you need to remove emacs-gtk |
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| 15:20.43 | dvs | bluesmith: remove emacs-common ? |
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| 15:22.04 | oxek | `apt depends emacs` and remove all packages that mention emacs |
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| 15:22.14 | bluesmith | removing emacs-gtk worked |
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| 15:22.32 | bluesmith | oxek dvs thanks |
| 15:22.52 | dvs | np |
| 15:23.13 | dvs | that should be illegal!!!!! ;-P |
| 15:24.18 | oxek | interesting question, is it against DFSG to include illegal software in debian? |
| 15:24.38 | greycat | what do you mean by "illegal software"? |
| 15:24.54 | oxek | software under a free license, but considered illegal in some country |
| 15:25.01 | greycat | the non-US section was for that |
| 15:25.07 | greycat | !nonus |
| 15:25.07 | dpkg | Non-US is where we placed software previously unable to hosted within the USA. Changes in legislation mean that post-<Woody>, there is no non-US, so you don't need it for Sarge, Etch, Lenny, Squeeze, Wheezy or later. Ask me about <crypto> and <crypto in main>. Old non-US packages (for slink, potato, woody) are at archive.debian.org. http://wiki.debian.org/non-US |
| 15:25.30 | greycat | if it becomes an issue again, I suppose you'd talk to the Debian developers about reactivating it |
| 15:25.50 | oxek | I remember the old crypto issues |
| 15:26.42 | EdePopede | exporting the PGP book and returning it to digital with the help of volunteers... |
| 15:27.29 | oxek | as a purely hypothetical scenario, imagine it becomes illegal to distribute software that uses the word 'wine' in sweden. What would debian do? |
| 15:27.45 | EdePopede | and now there are 16 DVDs with binaries. btw, i've seen there's a USB-16G image, couldn't see how much of these 16 in included? |
| 15:28.18 | EdePopede | would create a fork named vodka |
| 15:29.04 | ratrace | oxek: define "distribute" :) |
| 15:29.08 | oxek | so would debian rename the package and other references to 'wine', and distribute this version, or would debian say "not our problem" and keep on having 'wine' |
| 15:29.10 | ratrace | also define "distribute in <country>" |
| 15:29.38 | greycat | You have too much god damned free time. |
| 15:29.38 | EdePopede | could debian be forced to block downloads to a particular country? |
| 15:29.39 | oxek | I don't know how to define it well, so I imagine something like those crypto issues in USA back then |
| 15:30.04 | oxek | greycat: got fired last monday, so I have plenty of time |
| 15:30.23 | ratrace | and define "debian" :) do you mean the Foundation? because the Foundation cannot be responsible if someone downloads from, say, USA servers something illegal in their specific country |
| 15:30.46 | EdePopede | reminds me of the discussion on age restricted TV programs. works fine as long the provider uses geo restriction to block general spreading, but having block lists for individual countries? no chance. |
| 15:30.53 | ratrace | they could use a VPN so no technical or reasonable measures could be done by anyone to prevent that. |
| 15:30.55 | oxek | hmm, define debian, I guess whatever is on official debian repositories in main |
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| 15:31.45 | EdePopede | they could cause trouble for those who run the servers in sweden maybe. but more, i don't think so. |
| 15:31.47 | ratrace | oxek: there can be no such obligation or legal requirement |
| 15:32.24 | oxek | ratrace: that's why I said hypothetical scenario where sweden introduces such legislation. Would debian comply or not care? |
| 15:32.45 | ratrace | it's very important to know where does the police come aknockin' . so if Swen is hosting a .se mirror, physically in .se, then police come knockin on his door. |
| 15:33.12 | ratrace | they can't come knocking on a .de mirror door and the Chef can VPN "illegal" stuff from the .de mirror, so you get the point |
| 15:34.07 | oxek | so to take it back to the original question, debian has no issue having illegal software packages in its official repositories, as long as they adhere to DFSG? |
| 15:35.03 | joepublic | still depends on definitions. |
| 15:35.29 | oxek | you're right, I'd need to define it really well, and I don't feel like doing an exercise in formal logic right now |
| 15:35.36 | ratrace | oxek: take it this way. right now many software packages in debian repo are violating a number of patents. who do the trolls come after? |
| 15:35.44 | jhutchins | EdePopede: The laptop has no mechanism to control the TV at all. Casually surfing both the laptop/internet and the TV, I just keep absent-mindedly trying to use the laptop keys instead of the remote. |
| 15:35.46 | joepublic | illegal software. Software that cracks medical equipment to kill children? Probably not ethical, probably not included. Free software that some country frowns upon? Not an issue. |
| 15:36.21 | jhutchins | Similar to when I'm using either my phone or my tablet and the laptop at the same time and try to use touchscreen gestures on the laptop. |
| 15:36.43 | ratrace | oxek: it's not formal logic but jurisdiction. "Debian" is abstract. so one must mean the foundation or whatever the body responsible for hosting repository X, but if you shut it down, it'll just crop up in another domain, in a country where it's not illegal, so round and round we go |
| 15:37.27 | jhutchins | I hate to squash a good discussion, but this should be in #debian-offtopic. It's not Debian support. |
| 15:37.36 | oxek | true, sorry |
| 15:37.37 | joepublic | point taken and thank you. |
| 15:37.37 | EdePopede | jhutchins: then i only hope you took precautions related to the iron ;) |
| 15:37.40 | teo7 | Hi, I'm on Debian stable (then I also tried testing) and the PC audio hears much lower than it did on Windows. In my opinion, about half. My de is gnome, and the audio server pulseaudio, so I tried this guide -> https://wiki.debian.org/PulseAudio?highlight=%28%5CbCategorySound%5Cb%29#Sound_level_is_low_or_suddenly_becomes_too_loud |
| 15:37.50 | ratrace | jhutchins: hashcat can be used to crack medical equipment to kill children. is it illegal? |
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| 15:37.55 | ratrace | (it's in the repos too) |
| 15:38.06 | teo7 | In the paragraph "sound level is low or ..." but adding the line "flat-volumes = no" in that file, nothing has changed. How can I try? |
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| 15:39.31 | EdePopede | ratrace: it is not originally meant for this explicite action. like this package changing your PC into a media center isn't illegal, but that one addon that used torrents to download everything... while as the same time also seeding, how surprising for some of its users :o |
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| 15:40.11 | jhutchins | ratrace: In my logic, the act is illegal, but the software can not be. |
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| 15:40.22 | jhutchins | ratrace: You can not outlaw an idea. |
| 15:40.32 | EdePopede | and all this legal shit has the same effect like time travelling... breaks away all sanity from language while creating really bad headache. |
| 15:40.33 | ratrace | jhutchins: right. and I mistabbed, that was for joepublic. neway, offtopic. |
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| 15:49.11 | asterismo_l | hi, i need help with something |
| 15:49.14 | CtrlC | Hi |
| 15:49.24 | CtrlC | I have a problem wit my microphone not being detected. |
| 15:49.31 | asterismo_l | i have a raid1 disk array that i upgraded to larger disks, with dd |
| 15:49.42 | CtrlC | It is connected through jack. It's a headset mic actually. |
| 15:49.47 | asterismo_l | so the new disks have unused space at the end of each disk |
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| 15:50.45 | asterismo_l | i created partitions at the end in both disks without format, and created a new md array |
| 15:50.58 | CtrlC | I tried adding "options snd-hda-intel model=MYMODEL" to /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf and now there's a headphone mic detected but it doesn't record anything. |
| 15:51.22 | CtrlC | It seems like debian is no longer using alsa-base package. |
| 15:51.39 | asterismo_l | now when i try to format the new array, it says there is no partition table, that i must create one. Will this delete the disk original partition table? |
| 15:51.53 | asterismo_l | will the system be able to boot after that? |
| 15:52.48 | ratrace | asterismo_l: first of all, you did it all wrong. enlarging a raid1 array is done by replacing individual drives one by one. |
| 15:53.09 | ratrace | by replacing I mean using mdadm controls to remove a disk and replace it within a md |
| 15:53.16 | Mazhive | preseed experts available here ? |
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| 15:53.41 | asterismo_l | ratrace, is there any way to fix this? i dont mind if there is a larger md array or two, |
| 15:53.44 | jhutchins | Mazhive: Fellow users available. Some know preseed. |
| 15:53.59 | asterismo_l | the original md array is inside an encrypted lvm |
| 15:54.13 | ratrace | asterismo_l: so now you'll have to provide some pastebins with details: lsblk output, cat /proc/mdstat, for example |
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| 15:54.33 | ratrace | asterismo_l: inside? wait, md _atop_ of lvm? consisting of logical volumes as raid members? |
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| 15:55.39 | Mazhive | jhutchins i am getting some headcache why one preseed line works add a second , the first doesnt seem to work any more and the second one is not applied |
| 15:58.16 | CtrlC | Even when I disconnect the jack it still lists a headset mic! |
| 15:59.05 | asterismo_l | ratrace, https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/SqPjvtj9D4/ |
| 15:59.08 | Mazhive | jhutchins: very frustrating because the check does not seem to regocnize the error so in order to check it i have to run the whole procudere on a vm , the install takes about 10 miuntes so every change i have to wait 10 minutes to see if it is applied |
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| 16:00.13 | asterismo_l | ratrace, https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/7Rg66c7fzX/ |
| 16:01.41 | ratrace | asterismo_l: alright, and md0 is still resilvering. k, better leave it finish so you have redundancy before you start using it. also, backups are assumed. now, what's the problem exactly here? what's "format new array" means? |
| 16:02.14 | ratrace | asterismo_l: and is that Ubuntu? |
| 16:03.09 | asterismo_l | this is the thing, i used to have 2x500GB disks, then i upgraded to 1TB disks, using dd |
| 16:03.26 | ratrace | asterismo_l: post the exact dd command you used, please |
| 16:03.26 | asterismo_l | i did not enlarge the encrypted LVM back then |
| 16:03.36 | asterismo_l | i cannot remember |
| 16:03.50 | ratrace | it's very important to know what _exactly_ you dd'd |
| 16:04.06 | ratrace | /dev/md..., /dev/sd..., /dev/lv...., what? |
| 16:04.17 | asterismo_l | dd if=/dev/olddisk of=/dev/newdisk |
| 16:04.53 | ratrace | that doesn't say anything, in context of whether you dd'd sdX, mdX or lvX "disks" |
| 16:05.02 | asterismo_l | sda |
| 16:05.15 | asterismo_l | and then recreated the raid |
| 16:05.56 | asterismo_l | anyway, the situation is that now i have unused space at the end of each disk, that i tried to format as a new raid1 array |
| 16:06.03 | asterismo_l | that is raid127 shown |
| 16:06.23 | asterismo_l | but i cannot format it to ext because it says there is no partition table |
| 16:06.36 | ratrace | asterismo_l: how are you trying to "format" it? |
| 16:06.37 | asterismo_l | i assume the partition table is the one y cloned from 500GB disks |
| 16:06.52 | asterismo_l | i formatted them using gparted each as no format |
| 16:06.55 | ratrace | you have nested partitions, that's a rather very convoluted setup you have there |
| 16:06.58 | asterismo_l | and created the array |
| 16:07.15 | ratrace | if you want ext4 atop of /dev/md127 you need to mkfs.ext4 /dev/md127 |
| 16:07.20 | asterismo_l | then opened gparted again and selected the new md array and tried to format it |
| 16:07.29 | asterismo_l | this array not need to be encrypted |
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| 16:08.08 | ratrace | but..... I'd stop and rework that entire thing, it's abomination. you have primary partitioning in sdX1 and sdX2. then you joing sdX1 into md, which is partitioned (!!) and then one of those is a LUKS which is actually a volume group |
| 16:08.15 | asterismo_l | mkfs.ext4 that wont break any of the prior partitions right? |
| 16:08.53 | ratrace | mkfs.ext4 /dev/md127 should not touch other devices, like /dev/md0, or the GPT atop of that, or the luks device, or the volume group atop of that |
| 16:09.09 | asterismo_l | the encrypted LVM is what the debian installer did automatically |
| 16:09.32 | ratrace | but you partitioned md which is on partitioned sd{a,b}. that's just..... wrong. |
| 16:09.46 | ratrace | md0* |
| 16:10.36 | ratrace | copy data to backups and reconsider the layout. why do you want two arrays? can you have one mirror atop of which you run luks atop of which you run LVM and then "partition" the LV into whatever you need? |
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| 16:12.51 | tralala | after an upgrade to 10.6 the fan on my intel nuc works non-stop. Before that it was only working when the system was under load. Any ideas how to debug that? |
| 16:12.54 | ratrace | asterismo_l: a saner layout would be: sda1, sdb1 => bios_grub sda2,sdb2 => /boot ext4 sda3,sdb3 => md0 raid1 md0 => LUKS md0_crypt => LVM for lv_root, lv_swap, lv_vm |
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| 16:16.12 | asterismo_l | i'll reconsider the layout |
| 16:16.15 | asterismo_l | thanks ratrace |
| 16:17.24 | zodd | tralala, check the load of the system. Check sensor readings. Check bugreports on related software components |
| 16:17.46 | zodd | problem is now too generic |
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| 16:19.12 | tralala | zodd, the system load seems high given that it's idling. How do I investigate what's causing the load? |
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| 16:19.49 | ratrace | tralala: (h)top run as root will show you the running processes and their states. with htop you can sort by io. also check iotop. |
| 16:20.24 | ratrace | important also to view kernel threads. "load" is a rather complex metric that includes iowait |
| 16:21.01 | greycat | it would help if you gave us actual information, not just "the system load seems high" |
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| 16:21.23 | tralala | ratrace, thank you |
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| 16:21.31 | tralala | greycat, what actual information? |
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| 16:21.40 | greycat | what *is* the actual load average? paste it. |
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| 16:21.50 | tralala | the CPU load is low btw. |
| 16:22.12 | tralala | 19:22:01 up 7:34, 5 users, load average: 0.20, 0.23, 0.24 |
| 16:22.28 | ratrace | tralala: at this point you should be using proper terms. "load (average)" vs cpu%, ... |
| 16:22.31 | greycat | So it's doing something, and has been doing something steadily for 15 minutes. You will want to find out what it's doing. |
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| 16:22.55 | greycat | Maybe it's doing updatedb or gnome's document indexing or... |
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| 16:24.43 | tralala | this has been going on for hours, so it's not a cron job |
| 16:25.00 | ratrace | a cron job could've started hours ago and not yet finish, in theory |
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| 16:25.13 | greycat | what did top tell you? |
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| 16:26.13 | tralala | %Cpu(s): 6.5 us, 1.6 sy, 0.0 ni, 91.8 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st |
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| 16:27.25 | greycat | look at the actual processes |
| 16:27.38 | vincent- | Is there anyone using systemd-resolved and setting a search domain? On Debian Buster I'm setting "Domains=mydomain.com" in "/etc/systemd/resolved.conf". The output of "resolvectl" shows "DNS Domain: mydomain.com" and it even added a "search mydomain.com" to the "/etc/resolv.conf" (which is by the way a symlink to "/run/systemd/resolve/stub-resolv.conf"). With that, I can ping "myhost.mydomain.com" but I cannot ping just "myhost". The search |
| 16:27.38 | vincent- | domain is not being used to auto-complete the single-label host name. |
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| 16:31.02 | ratrace | vincent-: what does grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf say? |
| 16:31.42 | tralala | greycat, the top cpu users are emacs, Xorg and the strange one is "Web Content" |
| 16:31.52 | ratrace | tralala: that's firefox |
| 16:32.33 | greycat | some browser, at least. gnome, firefox, whatever. and yes, I can absolutely envision a web browser tab churning 0.20 load average for all eternity |
| 16:32.58 | greycat | err, s/gnome/chrome/ |
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| 16:35.18 | vincent- | ratrace, "hosts: files resolve [!UNAVAIL=return] dns" |
| 16:35.46 | ratrace | greycat: hmm I thought firefox specifically named container threads like that, but I can't get it to do that now |
| 16:36.11 | greycat | I'm guessing tralala will know which browser is being used |
| 16:36.20 | tralala | it's firefox |
| 16:37.08 | tralala | I stopped it and the average load is down to 0.11 but the fan is still at full speed |
| 16:37.22 | greycat | give it a few minutes |
| 16:39.23 | ratrace | vincent-: not sure then. systemd-resolved afaik doesn't inject itself before resolv.conf, in fact it configures it as a symlink to a dynamic file in /run, the rest is glibc using /etc/resolv.conf and the "search" directive in it |
| 16:40.32 | tralala | greycat, the thing is that it's blowing cold air, so it seems like the kernel is not controlling it properly |
| 16:40.55 | ratrace | it's mostly never kernel controlling that but bios |
| 16:41.50 | vincent- | ratrace, yep, the /etc/resolv.conf is a symlink to /run/systemd/resolve/stub-resolv.conf. After configuring /etc/systemd/resolved.conf to add my domain to Domains= (and restarting the service), the "search" line gets added to the /etc/resolv.conf (still being a symlink). |
| 16:43.19 | ratrace | vincent-: do you have some definition for non-fqdn "myhost" in /etc/hosts ? |
| 16:43.26 | tralala | ratrace, the thing is that under 10.5 I didn't have the problem and the bios is the same |
| 16:43.57 | vincent- | ratrace, I can see that Fedora has a different value for "hosts" in /etc/nsswitch.conf. And no, I haven't touched /etc/hosts at all. |
| 16:43.59 | greycat | tralala: if you're *dead* set on pinning blame on the kernel, just boot the previous kernel and see if the problem goes away |
| 16:44.43 | ratrace | vincent-: I think various DEs and things configure that. I don't run a DE and mine is files dns mymachines |
| 16:44.53 | tralala | greycat, I'm not, I'm just wondering why it's happening all of a sudden |
| 16:45.26 | ratrace | tralala: and to determine that you need to control variables. booting into previous kernel and doing same post-boot steps is one way to exclude kernel version |
| 16:46.25 | ratrace | that said, for example, I've noticed 50% more IOPS happening during idle times on our servers, after 10.6 update. I have yet to run proper tests to find out what did that as I also upgraded zfs to 0.8.4, so I'll need a test case and controlled variables to pinpoint it |
| 16:47.07 | ratrace | alas, I can't be bothered.... :) it's just an increase in 20 to 30 iops on 5 minute averages during least busy parts of the day |
| 16:48.05 | tralala | greycat, ratrace, thanks for the tips guys |
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| 17:35.21 | lupulo | hi |
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| 17:41.55 | wwilliam | how do i know all the aliases of a server? |
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| 17:42.19 | greycat | You mean DNS CNAMEs? You can't. |
| 17:42.37 | greycat | A CNAME might exist in *any* other domain, and you can't possibly enumerate every domain on the entire planet. |
| 17:43.04 | wwilliam | OK Thank you. |
| 17:43.07 | greycat | If you mean some subset of that question, like "all of the CNAME records defined on that particular DNS server", ask the person who administers that DNS server. |
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| 17:43.59 | greycat | If you meant shell aliases, then it's a totally different answer. |
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| 17:45.53 | wwilliam | I think is the "CNAME records defined on that particular DNS server" Thank you. |
| 17:46.06 | greycat | Are you the DNS admin for that domain? |
| 17:47.51 | wwilliam | No greycat |
| 17:48.15 | greycat | *nod* then you'll have to find the person who is, and ask for their help |
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| 18:04.40 | PaddyF | !kubernetes |
| 18:04.55 | ratrace | no |
| 18:05.56 | wwilliam | Thanks greycat |
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| 18:20.31 | ratrace | SEVEN TEEEEEE EIGHT! YES! |
| 18:21.12 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: switched to 'buntu yet? the fox is here! |
| 18:21.34 | greycat | So now the big question: what broke? |
| 18:21.54 | ratrace | lemme snapshot me rootfs real quick and I'll try-uh. |
| 18:22.25 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: thanks man. downloading right now :D |
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| 18:22.28 | PaddyF | you can do that while the system is running? |
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| 18:22.42 | greycat | LVM and ZFS |
| 18:22.58 | ratrace | btrfs on this machine, but yeah |
| 18:23.58 | greycat | well, it started up, and the tabs I was on appear OK... |
| 18:24.52 | ratrace | so far so good. no complaints about 68'th profile. privacybadger, cookiautodelete are the only to extensions I use, no issues. and most importantly, my network.trr settings I had from before stayed the way I put them, so no DoH for me. |
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| 18:25.18 | ratrace | drm works fine, netflix plays, 'tube plays, 'sall I need :) |
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| 18:27.03 | lupulo | I have found a strange file called .uds/_err.log , do you know the utility? |
| 18:27.18 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: i have just opened. so far so good |
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| 18:28.24 | tomreyn | lupulo: have you had a peek inside? |
| 18:28.33 | tomreyn | sounds like a log file, should be text? |
| 18:28.57 | alex11 | firefox-esr just landed in stable :) |
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| 18:29.25 | lupulo | tomreyn i paste it |
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| 18:30.54 | lupulo | https://justpaste.it/89y5o |
| 18:31.16 | greycat | "I read it, and I concluded ____" |
| 18:31.30 | ratrace | and just two tiny adjustments to the firefox AppArmor profile. it's using cgroups now |
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| 18:32.25 | lupulo | tomreyn how to should i find the execute point of that? |
| 18:32.30 | tomreyn | lupulo: are those \r\n in there verbatim, or did you paste it weird? |
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| 18:32.41 | NetTerminalGene | i will make lock icon green again |
| 18:33.23 | lupulo | tomreyn the first part is import base64,lzma;print(lzma.decompress(base64.b85decode( |
| 18:33.24 | greycat | there appears to be a python program inside this HTML rubbish |
| 18:33.38 | lupulo | the another is the translation from *nix utilities |
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| 18:34.53 | greycat | even in lynx I can't see a raw link anywhere on the entire page |
| 18:35.38 | greycat | how the hell do people choose these paste sites. anyway? "Let's find a brand new one that will piss greycat off even more than all the ones before!" |
| 18:36.14 | ratrace | lol |
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| 18:36.41 | ratrace | !greycatdrink |
| 18:36.41 | dpkg | gives greycat a bowl of milk |
| 18:38.37 | lupulo | the command is /usr/bin/python3 /root/.uds/_err.log > /dev/null 2>&1, but i don't find the procedence |
| 18:38.54 | NetTerminalGene | ,v firefox-esr |
| 18:38.55 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 68.9.0esr-1~deb8u2; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 78.3.0esr-2; sid: 78.3.0esr-2 |
| 18:39.03 | NetTerminalGene | ahha. outdated |
| 18:39.13 | greycat | oh, so you *also* found it to be running? before you found the original file, which is being disguised as a log file? and OMG, it's in /root?!? |
| 18:39.27 | greycat | I would be very, very worried. |
| 18:39.30 | *** part/#debian velix (~velix@unaffiliated/velix) |
| 18:39.34 | ratrace | sounds fishy... esp. with that app key= back to black hexspeak |
| 18:40.14 | greycat | so ... wait ... where did you find the command *with* redirections? those would not show up in ps. |
| 18:40.22 | greycat | there are several pieces of vital information missing here. |
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| 18:41.15 | lupulo | is it possible to get the pid of the calling process? |
| 18:41.20 | greycat | *sigh* |
| 18:41.38 | sponix2ipfw | NetTerminalGene: it is amazing how many people care |
| 18:42.01 | greycat | Is it *running*? Then you get the *parent* from ps. But the parent might be 1, which tells you nothing. |
| 18:42.07 | GenTooMan | ,v linux-image |
| 18:42.08 | greycat | Where did you see the ">/dev/null 2>&1" parts?! |
| 18:42.08 | judd | No package named 'linux-image' was found in amd64. |
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| 18:42.42 | sponix2ipfw | GenTooMan: you want linux-image-amd64 |
| 18:42.50 | greycat | or you want ,kernels |
| 18:42.53 | tomreyn | lupulo: you should indeed answer questions, not just keep asking new ones |
| 18:43.15 | tomreyn | lupulo: here's your code, cleaned up http://paste.debian.net/hidden/c082a4f7/ |
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| 18:43.32 | oxek | oh no, 78esr is here |
| 18:45.04 | oxek | wonder what's broken this time |
| 18:45.30 | greycat | nothing has burst into flames just yet, but it's early |
| 18:45.32 | oxek | there goes rest of my day diffing user.js with whatever has changed |
| 18:46.24 | tomreyn | lupulo: looks like a cross-platform python 3 connect-back shell |
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| 18:46.55 | lupulo | ok thx tomreyn. |
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| 18:53.39 | alex11 | oh god, i'm remembering that firefox now has the "wonderbar" |
| 18:53.46 | tomreyn | lupulo: can you run sha512sum against the file? |
| 18:53.47 | alex11 | that's going to take getting used to for a lot of users |
| 18:54.24 | ratrace | alex11: ? |
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| 18:55.12 | alex11 | one click activates the url bar (as opposed to double clicking in the old firefox) and no, the fact the text is highlighted does not put it in your paste buffer |
| 18:55.14 | tomreyn | lupulo: actually sha256sum |
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| 18:55.51 | greycat | firefox has a wonder bra? |
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| 18:56.01 | NetTerminalGene | sponix2ipfw: care what? |
| 18:56.11 | NetTerminalGene | oxek: yes! |
| 18:56.27 | tomreyn | lupulo: also, i'm interested in how systems get compromised. if you want to share more info, i'm all ears. |
| 18:56.36 | NetTerminalGene | i was using brave all dat |
| 18:56.38 | NetTerminalGene | day* |
| 18:56.58 | NetTerminalGene | now my ccomputer is secure and privacy is tight |
| 18:57.09 | sponix2ipfw | NetTerminalGene: care about the Firefox version |
| 18:57.33 | NetTerminalGene | firefox loves me most |
| 18:57.38 | oxek | what is with this expanding bar? how do I get rid of it? |
| 18:57.54 | NetTerminalGene | oxek: about:config |
| 18:58.15 | NetTerminalGene | i will switch to green padlock |
| 18:58.42 | oxek | 'wc -l user.js' gives me 475, so what's a few more |
| 18:58.52 | NetTerminalGene | i can say that firefox 78 on mozilla ftp has performance and some other issues. this one is fine |
| 18:59.23 | NetTerminalGene | i mean i had downloaded 78 stable version from mozilla |
| 18:59.38 | NetTerminalGene | all their builds are problematic |
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| 19:00.43 | alex11 | meh |
| 19:00.51 | alex11 | i'm skeptical of people who think brave is the answer |
| 19:00.56 | alex11 | but oh well |
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| 19:03.44 | jhutchins | NetTerminalGene: Just a reminder that this channel is for Debian support questions, not rants about browsers. |
| 19:05.06 | codedmart | I installed debian on my macbook pro 2015. The fan has not stopped since I booted. I installed and ran services for acpid, thermald, tlp, and installed powertop and tried to calibrate. |
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| 19:07.52 | oxek | moving firefox discussion (and rants) to #debian-offtopic |
| 19:10.20 | greycat | are you guys talking about this? https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1295653 |
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| 19:21.24 | jhutchins | ,i fancontrol |
| 19:21.26 | judd | Package fancontrol (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: utility to control the fan speed. Version: 1:3.5.0-3; Size: 46.1k; Installed: 100k; Homepage: https://hwmon.wiki.kernel.org/lm_sensors |
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| 19:25.36 | tomjaguarpaw | I'm really confused why 'apt-get update' on buster just pulled in firefox-esr 78.3.0esr-1~deb10u1. Buster used to have version 68. The data on these two pages seems to be inconsistent with respect to which version of firefox-esr should be in buster security: https://packages.qa.debian.org/f/firefox-esr.html https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/firefox-esr |
| 19:27.52 | tomreyn | tomjaguarpaw: the old qa tracker hasn't gotten the update, yet. if you look at the current one you'll notice the change https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr |
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| 19:30.18 | tomjaguarpaw | Thanks. I'm not used to major versions increasing in stable. Did this happen because it was the only way to patch a vulnerability? |
| 19:30.23 | ratrace | tomjaguarpaw: 68-esr is no more, 78-esr is it now, debian upgrades the package when it goes EOL, and that happened these days. |
| 19:30.39 | tomjaguarpaw | Ah, I see. Thank you. |
| 19:31.12 | tomjaguarpaw | I can see that a package having an LTS cadence that is slightly off a Debian release cadence can pose problems! |
| 19:31.21 | greycat | firefox-esr 78 *just* hit buster-security a few hours ago |
| 19:31.30 | greycat | so, documentation may not be updated yet |
| 19:32.07 | tomjaguarpaw | Interesting. It was an artifact of the precise timing of my upgrade then :) |
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| 19:33.04 | JyZyXEL | the package tracker says its in some type of NEW queue for buster-security, waiting for review? |
| 19:33.25 | greycat | obviously out of date |
| 19:33.51 | JyZyXEL | the package tracker also seems out of date: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=firefox-esr |
| 19:34.44 | JyZyXEL | is there something that's up to date? :P |
| 19:34.58 | greycat | your system, if you did apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 19:35.32 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: how did you notice new firefox version update? |
| 19:35.35 | JyZyXEL | im gonna take the entire tomorrow to do profile migrations by hand |
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| 19:37.49 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: I'm subscribed to DSA announcements |
| 19:40.51 | sponix2ipfw | I just got 78 on Buster it is legit |
| 19:41.16 | sponix2ipfw | greycat: thanks for the heads up |
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| 19:43.42 | JyZyXEL | ratrace: it says the subscription policy for it is closed: https://lists.debian.org/debian-admin/ |
| 19:44.00 | greycat | debian-admin != debian-security-announce |
| 19:44.31 | ratrace | JyZyXEL: maybe I'm a dd :) |
| 19:44.31 | JyZyXEL | oh i figured since that was the address on https://dsa.debian.org/ |
| 19:44.40 | ratrace | nah, j/k. debian-security-announce@lists.debian.org is the one |
| 19:45.17 | greycat | "to contact us, mail debian-admin@lists.debian.org." is write-only. you can't subscribe and see what security bugs people are secretly reporting. |
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| 19:46.56 | JyZyXEL | so an unfortunate abbreviation collision with Debian System Administrators and Debian Security Announcements |
| 19:47.01 | greycat | yup |
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| 20:05.29 | magyar | hi, if I enable the ssl module in apache2 does this file being used by the available ssl sites ? ??mods-available/ssl.conf |
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| 20:10.16 | magyar | I'm trying to disable TLS 1.0 and TLS 1.1 using this >> SSLProtocol all -SSLv2 -SSLv3 -TLSv1 -TLSv1.1 but I still see tls1.0 and 1.1 offered as a option |
| 20:10.25 | greycat | mods-available is a directory containing symlinks to config files. Apache reads these to activate modules when it starts up. |
| 20:11.36 | greycat | err, wait, I got that backwards. mods-available contains the actual config files, ones you're using as well as ones you're not. mods-enabled contains the symlinks to the ones you're using. |
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| 20:15.38 | magyar | greycat: yes, I have the ssl module enabled as well with a2enmod ssl |
| 20:16.21 | magyar | but when I nmap the site for TLS protocol, I see tls1.0 and tls1.1 still being offered |
| 20:17.16 | greycat | you said "using this" -- where did you put that line, exactly? |
| 20:19.02 | PaddyF | is it written somewhere what the debian system admin team suggests to use for mta (still exim?) and httpd (still apache?) without aiming to cause trouble |
| 20:19.09 | magyar | greycat: the file ../mods-enabled/ssl.conf has a line SSLProtocol all -SSLv2 -SSLv3 -TLSv1 -TLSv1.1 within it |
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| 20:19.22 | greycat | so you edited that file? |
| 20:19.29 | magyar | greycat: yes |
| 20:19.47 | magyar | there is example lines for SSLProtocol within it |
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| 20:20.19 | magyar | apache version 2.4.46-1~bpo10+1 |
| 20:20.47 | greycat | https://serverfault.com/questions/848177/how-can-i-disable-tls-1-0-and-1-1-in-apache |
| 20:20.59 | jhutchins | magyar: Did you restart apache? |
| 20:21.21 | greycat | the green-checkmarked answer warns that if there are competing SSLProtocol directives, the first one it finds wins |
| 20:22.01 | magyar | jhutchins: sure did, complete stop, check process, finally start |
| 20:23.45 | magyar | greycat: only one, I |
| 20:23.47 | tomreyn | lupulo: if you ever return, this describes how this system likely got compromised (compomised pypi mirror hosting modified/ malicious "resquests" module): https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fsec.thief.one%2Farticle_content%3Fa_id%3Dede61a57f5ca02205067afec2f5b1678 - the code you shred matches the one seen on the screenshot on "3. Release and persist remote control Trojans" |
| 20:24.09 | magyar | I've grepped for it within the /etc/apache2 dir |
| 20:26.18 | greycat | and how are you checking the TLSv1.0 (etc.) support? |
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| 20:26.43 | jhutchins | There's a web site somewhere that'll scan for it... |
| 20:26.46 | tomreyn | lupulo: the C&C server your system was hooked up to was shut down on or after 2020-09-20 |
| 20:27.07 | lupulo | is posible to find the program or file which launches a program like this one? |
| 20:27.07 | lupulo | [20:38.39] <lupulo> the command is /usr/bin/python3 /root/.uds/_err.log > /dev/null 2>&1 |
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| 20:28.03 | greycat | *sigh* |
| 20:28.07 | greycat | You again. |
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| 20:28.33 | lupulo | ("ISO-8859-1" he doesn't seem asian or african. |
| 20:28.41 | lupulo | sorry |
| 20:28.56 | lupulo | greycat i was listening music and i mismatch the window |
| 20:29.04 | tomreyn | lupulo: you need to disconnect network access to this system, and reinstall, restoring only known safe backups. |
| 20:29.32 | greycat | lupulo: oh, you're not /ignore-ing me? Just regular old ignoring. Interesting. |
| 20:31.17 | greycat | From the last time we had this conversation: (1) Yes, you can see the *parent* of your process with ps, but if that parent PID is 1, it tells you nothing. (2) WHERE did you see "/usr/bin/python3 /root/.uds/_err.log > /dev/null 2>&1" with redirections? |
| 20:32.40 | ratrace | tomreyn: so tl;dr typo squatted pypi supply chain trojan attack? |
| 20:32.46 | lupulo | is it the calling program, greycat i have changed the program to something more suitable, that is the system answer [Done] "/usr/bin/python3 /root/.uds/_err.log > /dev/null 2>&1" |
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| 20:33.29 | greycat | So your SHELL said this to you? That menas YOU ran the program. In your shell. |
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| 20:34.39 | tomreyn | ratrace: yes, looks like it |
| 20:34.44 | greycat | Compare to what happens if you type "sleep >/dev/null 2>&1 &" and then wait a few seconds and hit enter again. |
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| 20:35.00 | greycat | oops, that should be "sleep 1 >/dev/null 2>&1" |
| 20:35.03 | greycat | oops, that should be "sleep 1 >/dev/null 2>&1 &" |
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| 20:35.20 | greycat | I can type it right in my own shell... should have pasted it here. |
| 20:35.46 | greycat | anyway, YOU ran the program. in your shell. |
| 20:37.49 | ratrace | tomreyn: ouch! |
| 20:39.05 | tomreyn | the original article is published at https://security.tencent.com/index.php/blog/msg/160 |
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| 20:48.32 | lupulo | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:48.48 | lupulo | mr robot |
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| 20:55.12 | tomreyn | https://discuss.python.org/t/improving-risks-and-consequences-against-typosquatting-on-pypi/5090 |
| 20:56.52 | lupulo | lzma.decompress is used against the net antivires, isn't it? |
| 20:57.25 | tomreyn | let's move to -offtopic if you have any more questions, after you have taken the affected system offline |
| 20:58.17 | lupulo | ok |
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| 21:02.28 | greycat | tomreyn: so, are you saying that lupulo's problem was caused by running "pip" (or something similar) as root, making a typo in the package name, and getting malicious code as a result, which pip then executed? |
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| 21:06.03 | lupulo | greycat furthermore with word Darwin inside of the malicious code. |
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| 21:08.02 | oxek | is it possible to instruct apt to never add any files to a particular path? Such as never add files to /usr/lib/firefox-esr/browser/features/ on firefox-esr update? |
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| 21:08.39 | lupulo | oxek you could use semanage, sure it works |
| 21:08.57 | oxek | that would require setting up all of selinux, right? |
| 21:09.26 | oxek | I'd prefer a 'debian-native' way of making apt do what I want |
| 21:09.44 | magyar | greycat: nmap --script ssl-enum-ciphers -p 443 mysite.com |
| 21:10.04 | lupulo | oxek it is setup a process control, apt like process, perhaps out of control |
| 21:10.09 | greycat | ok, so you're not getting a cached response from some external website, then |
| 21:10.41 | oxek | to give comparison, arch does it this way: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman#Skip_files_from_being_installed_to_system |
| 21:10.43 | magyar | greycat: nope |
| 21:11.13 | ratrace | oxek: dpkg-divert something something |
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| 21:11.46 | magyar | so I'm not sure what gives and why the setting in /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/ssl.conf is not being used during the load |
| 21:13.50 | tomreyn | greycat: this seems like a realistic scenario. my guessing is as good / bad as yours. |
| 21:14.33 | greycat | tomreyn: *nod* it's really hard to get any details out of this person... |
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| 21:14.40 | ratrace | tomreyn: greycat: it's a very known issue in pypi land, there's been a number of such trojans in the past few years |
| 21:14.41 | magyar | greycat: got it, letsecrypt is doing a sideload |
| 21:14.48 | oxek | ratrace: you're right, dpkg-divert can probably do this, thanks, I'll look into it |
| 21:15.08 | tomreyn | ratrace: that's right |
| 21:15.41 | ratrace | most notable: https://www.zdnet.com/article/two-malicious-python-libraries-removed-from-pypi/ |
| 21:16.15 | ratrace | supply chain attacks are becoming more of a problem in FOSS recently |
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| 21:17.45 | oxek | "Directories can't be diverted with dpkg-divert" from the manpage of dpkg-divert. Pity. |
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| 21:18.53 | ratrace | oxek: ah, bummer |
| 21:19.35 | ratrace | oxek: put an apparmor profile on your firefox to limit the files it sources from there :) |
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| 21:20.03 | ratrace | way easier than selinux, you can really write a few lines of policy just for that |
| 21:20.18 | oxek | yeah, my problem is solvable, I was just looking for an easy way. Putting learning apparmor on my todo list... |
| 21:23.22 | ratrace | oxek: DPkg::Post-Invoke hook in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d./... that checks the dir against allowed files and removes the rest? |
| 21:23.31 | lupulo | oxek you could combine apt-file + apt-get |
| 21:23.41 | lupulo | sure it is a great mix |
| 21:23.58 | Mazhive | what is the difference between the graphical desktop and lxde desktop check marks during install |
| 21:24.05 | ratrace | it's a bit of a broad brush run on every apt run but... maybe there's a way to run that conditionally for specific package |
| 21:24.26 | Mazhive | sorry i meant desktop environment and lxde |
| 21:25.09 | joepublic | Mazhive, `man tasksel` |
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| 21:27.56 | jhutchins | Mazhive: The default desktop is Gnome. lxde is a different desktop environment, with some utilities and default programs that are different. It is lighter and has fewer "features". It is also more configurable, but it may be harder to figure out configuration. |
| 21:28.00 | jhutchins | !lxde |
| 21:28.00 | dpkg | The Lightweight X11 Desktop Environment (LXDE) is available since Debian 5.0 "Lenny". To install, ask me about <install lxde>. https://wiki.debian.org/LXDE https://wiki.lxde.org/en/LXDE:Questions https://www.lxde.org/ #lxde on irc.oftc.net. |
| 21:28.20 | jhutchins | Mazhive: You can install both and compare them for yourself. |
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| 21:28.53 | Mazhive | :) ...so in general its gnome if otherwise selected in the tasksel |
| 21:29.56 | Mazhive | i need super lightweight but yet seemingly possible to dissipear while run a single program |
| 21:30.30 | jhutchins | Mazhive: If NOT otherwise selected. I don't know if you can do both at once in the installer. |
| 21:30.47 | jhutchins | I used gnome once and have never gone back. |
| 21:32.00 | Mazhive | my regular desktop is mate but now i need it to run 1 single program to be functional i need a display manager to draw it on screen. |
| 21:32.03 | n4dir | imho it is better to not install a DE during installation, but after reboot, *if* you want to go more lightweight. |
| 21:32.29 | n4dir | and then, of course, only what you need. If you do tasksel then too, you might just as well do it during installation |
| 21:33.09 | Mazhive | i am working on e preseed config file i am using i to run 1 single program |
| 21:33.21 | n4dir | in your case probably: apt-get install xorg fluxbox <your-one-app). Or something like fluxbox |
| 21:33.38 | Mazhive | fluxbox vs openbox ?? |
| 21:34.06 | n4dir | i prefer fluxbox, as i don't have to fiddle configuring it. But any WindowManager should be fine |
| 21:34.08 | Mazhive | xinit/startx is available i can run it now but the windows are wonky |
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| 21:36.36 | Mazhive | some windows i cant move to see the other underneath...so i need a proper solution |
| 21:36.44 | n4dir | even installing a DE yourself instead with tasksel is much lightweighter. imho, as said |
| 21:37.22 | Mazhive | DE ( gnome ) i presume.. |
| 21:37.32 | greycat | Mazhive: if your "one program" opens multiple windows, you *really* want a window manager. |
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| 21:37.50 | greycat | pick a WM that you can get along with, and go from there |
| 21:38.39 | jhutchins | Gnome, Mate, xfce, lxde are all DEs - Desktop Environments. |
| 21:38.48 | n4dir | hence fluxbox. It's shortcuts are close to a DE, and if you are lucky you get a few apps in the menu |
| 21:39.12 | jhutchins | Mazhive: Sounds like you need a WM but not a DE. |
| 21:39.45 | Mazhive | yes i agree i try fluxbox i have done some minor openbox configs |
| 21:40.16 | n4dir | don't get me wrong: i like openbox, and i used it for quite a while. But if i quickly need a WM ... |
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| 21:41.28 | Mazhive | i need a solution to boot up , easy config to autologin and run the program |
| 21:41.57 | GenTooMan | ,v linux-image-amd64 |
| 21:41.58 | judd | Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u7; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u6; buster-backports: 5.7.10-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.8.10-1; sid: 5.8.10-1; experimental: 5.9~rc6-1~exp1 |
| 21:43.26 | Mazhive | right now i have openbox autologin but the wm(xterm shows up before the program runs.. |
| 21:43.47 | Mazhive | i dont like that.. |
| 21:45.55 | Mazhive | view my boot on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bw1sU_SWIM |
| 21:46.32 | GenTooMan | I am using buster I had an update for the kernel that failed to install "linux-image-4.19.0-11-amd64" but the latest says " 4.19+105+deb10u6" so I'm a little confused. |
| 21:46.40 | greycat | so... uh... you can't use TLSv1.3 in stretch-backports nginx because TLSv1.3 needs openssl 1.1.1 and there isn't a libssl1.1 in stretch-backports and the one in stretch is only 1.1.0l ... correct? |
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| 21:52.28 | greycat | ,checkbackport libssl1.1 --fromrelease buster --torelease stretch |
| 21:52.29 | judd | Backporting package libssl1.1 in busterâstretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch, stretch-backports. |
| 21:52.45 | greycat | ponders |
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| 21:53.22 | GenTooMan | hmm any suggestions on how to limit firefox's memory abusage? I'm kind of sick of it growing endlessly and having to be nuked every 7 days. |
| 21:54.27 | ratrace | cgroups! |
| 21:54.53 | ratrace | also file a bug report. I haven't seen a FF memory leak in ages, esp. none since Quantum |
| 21:56.04 | greycat | maybe one of your extensions is extra leaky |
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| 22:04.44 | GenTooMan | hmm it's really hard to know what for 3 possibilities it is. 1 Firefox is a leaky sieve, likely but not that bad (maybe?) 2 an extension doing something it shouldn't I have a few but I'm judicious and remove them if I find they don't do what I expect them too malingering bits? 3 .js from javascript on websites having to be "fixed" a lot (noscript fixed) creates a memory leak. |
| 22:10.39 | tomreyn | aboout:performance and about:about may help |
| 22:12.45 | lupulo | greycat better than sleep >... strace bash |
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| 22:13.28 | lupulo | a fight between restorer and select and read/write |
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| 22:27.11 | hmuller | debian installer has this at top: (1*installer) 2 shell 3 shell 4- log, how do you switch between? |
| 22:27.50 | greycat | Well, that didn't go well. As I kinda thought... out of memory late in the package build. |
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| 22:34.22 | tomreyn | hmuller: i'm not sure what you're seeing, but try, with [X] being those digits: Ctrl-Alt-F[X] , Ctrl-a-[X], Ctrl-b-[X], Alt-cursor_left/cursor_right |
| 22:34.52 | ChmEarl | hmuller, as tomreyn says, they are tmux key combos |
| 22:35.13 | hmuller | I'm testing an installer on a arm64 device using USB Serial |
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| 22:35.30 | hmuller | I've never used the installer through serial before =) |
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| 22:36.31 | tomreyn | i think tmux uses Ctrl-b-[X] |
| 22:39.57 | hmuller | that switches panes =) |
| 22:40.08 | hmuller | but good catch |
| 22:40.45 | lupulo | please, a good book for system forensic? |
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| 22:56.23 | hmuller | I tried Ctrl-B Ctrl-B # (to send Ctrl-B thru tmux), there's no way to get to that menu over serial |
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| 22:59.42 | tomreyn | hmuller: you'll probably need to hit a specific combo to pass a break sequence through the serial console |
| 23:01.56 | ryouma | is the magic sysrq key available in debian? if so, is it useful when system is not responding quickly to keyboard or mouse? which keys are it? ... ah, never mind, it looks like it won't kill all user processes since etch. |
| 23:01.57 | tomreyn | which one that is will depend on how the controlling end implements it, and there are several different implementations. if you know what you'Re using ont he controlling end, we can try making educated guesses. or you could refer to its manual. |
| 23:02.06 | tomreyn | hmuller: ^ |
| 23:03.58 | hmuller | tomreyn: I'm using this: https://d-i.debian.org/daily-images/arm64/daily/netboot/SD-card-images/ |
| 23:04.22 | tomreyn | ryouma: i think that by default, of this commonly used combo REISUB, only S and B will actually take effect nowadays. but you can reconfigure this if you'Re not worried about the potential security impact. |
| 23:04.45 | ryouma | what do s and b do? ther eis a security impact? |
| 23:04.51 | ryouma | like, it will kill firewall or so? |
| 23:05.14 | hmuller | I looked at instructions here: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/install.pdf.en |
| 23:05.28 | ryouma | sounds like it is degrading as a feature :) |
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| 23:06.34 | tomreyn | ryouma: i haven't followed the full discussion, there can be other reasons besides security (but that is a reason for diabling some of them by default, for sure, such as K) |
| 23:06.35 | hmuller | it looks like it is installing this time, just wanted to be able to get the shell if there was another problem |
| 23:08.15 | tomreyn | hmuller: about the escape sequence, what matters is the software (or hardware/firmware) your serial console runs. |
| 23:12.47 | hmuller | tomreyn: thanks for your input and patience. I will figure that out, as I am certain to bump into it again. |
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| 23:14.54 | hmuller | as a side note, the image did finally install but failed to boot. I was just testing it out. |
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