| 00:00.15 | Mazhive | some one in for a test drive of my preseed file on a vm to get some feedback ? |
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| 00:09.58 | genr8_ | apparently "it's a real 80x25 textmode terminal, so you can't use more than 256 characters. Use framebuffer console if you want real utf-8." |
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| 00:13.15 | A|an | If you intend to install the later version of GnuPG, there is an onboard version of gpg, to verify signatures, does that version need to be removed via dpkg? |
| 00:13.42 | A|an | latest <- later |
| 00:14.46 | genr8_ | it will handle itself |
| 00:15.14 | genr8_ | onboard /usr/bin/gpg is actually gnupg |
| 00:15.23 | genr8_ | ,v gpg |
| 00:15.24 | judd | Package: gpg on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 2.2.12-1+deb10u1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.2.12-1+deb10u1; stretch-backports-sloppy: 2.2.20-1~bpo9+1; buster-backports: 2.2.20-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2.2.20-1; sid: 2.2.20-1 |
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| 00:16.06 | A|an | I just got through installing gnupg_2.2.23 and checked the version...it's the correct version but using an older libgcrypt, not the version I installed... |
| 00:16.11 | A|an | made me wonder |
| 00:16.55 | A|an | why is that? |
| 00:16.55 | genr8_ | its a system lib package thats why. |
| 00:17.00 | genr8_ | ,v libgcrypt20 |
| 00:17.01 | judd | Package: libgcrypt20 on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6.3-2+deb8u4; jessie-security: 1.6.3-2+deb8u8; stretch: 1.7.6-2+deb9u3; stretch-security: 1.7.6-2+deb9u3; buster: 1.8.4-5; bullseye: 1.8.6-2; sid: 1.8.6-2 |
| 00:17.37 | genr8_ | two independent things |
| 00:18.25 | A|an | so...when I generate a key-pair, it will use the new libraries I just installed? |
| 00:19.21 | genr8_ | no, libraries dont work like that |
| 00:19.40 | A|an | gpg --version gpg (GnuPG) 2.2.23 libgcrypt 1.8.4 |
| 00:20.12 | genr8_ | right. cause that library exists in the system folder |
| 00:20.24 | A|an | libgcrypt_1.8.6 is what I installed |
| 00:20.42 | genr8_ | "installed" is relative. doesnt matter unless the system knows about it. |
| 00:20.49 | genr8_ | blame this on linux dynamic libraries and LD |
| 00:20.51 | A|an | great! |
| 00:21.13 | A|an | I didn't have any issues building and installing |
| 00:21.25 | genr8_ | what dir did it install it to ? |
| 00:21.27 | A|an | did make/install checks |
| 00:22.00 | A|an | I didn't check...in the INSTALL readme it did list them... |
| 00:22.02 | A|an | just a sec |
| 00:23.41 | genr8_ | you might just have to re-run "ldconfig" as root to get it to pick it up |
| 00:23.51 | A|an | I guess everything went into /usr/local/bin |
| 00:24.01 | genr8_ | that cant work |
| 00:24.02 | A|an | should I have changed the prefixes? |
| 00:24.12 | genr8_ | no, the lib doesnt go to bin |
| 00:24.23 | A|an | it doesn't mention where the libraries are placed |
| 00:24.27 | genr8_ | look, this is the old system one: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20 -> libgcrypt.so.20.2.4 |
| 00:24.44 | A|an | so...I can assume the libraries are in the proper place? |
| 00:24.51 | genr8_ | no! |
| 00:25.00 | A|an | jesus christ |
| 00:25.37 | A|an | I didn't mess with the makefie |
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| 00:25.50 | genr8_ | it should have printed what it did |
| 00:25.55 | genr8_ | you should find where it put them. |
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| 00:26.44 | A|an | I did save a copy of everything to a textfile |
| 00:26.47 | genr8_ | check /usr/local/lib/ |
| 00:26.51 | A|an | ok |
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| 00:32.47 | genr8_ | I hate this shit. my grasp on it is not ideal, but: they either need to be in /usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ , /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ , /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ , or you need to edit your ld.so.conf file to add the actual /usr/local/lib/dir they're in, then re-run "ldconfig" so it finds them. - or modify your LD_LIBRARY_PATH or LD_RUN_PATH env variables for your user |
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| 00:37.00 | genr8_ | My conclusion is that, since the Makefile uses the system's compilers, the LDFLAGS that are already pre-set, and it links it with the system's /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ dir , then installs it somewhere else. likely to the /usr/local/lib/ root dir, which is not a valid location on debian for LD, it needs the subdir of the Triplet ARCH |
| 00:37.23 | genr8_ | if you run "sudo ldconfig -p | grep libgcrypt" you will see it pointing to the old system's library. Thats likely taking precedence. |
| 00:37.32 | A|an | I was trying to upload the installation notes to pastezone, but too large |
| 00:37.55 | genr8_ | just search for ".so" and look where it went |
| 00:38.11 | sney | !termbin |
| 00:38.11 | dpkg | you can paste to termbin.com from terminal via: cat /path/to/file | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 00:38.20 | genr8_ | or find / -name libgcrypt.so |
| 00:38.27 | genr8_ | or find / -name libgcrypt.so* |
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| 00:42.30 | A|an | I'm not finding it. that's bizarre |
| 00:42.51 | A|an | there were no problems running the installations |
| 00:43.14 | A|an | I'll have to figure this out |
| 00:43.18 | A|an | great |
| 00:44.18 | genr8_ | are you sure you built that lib itself? like I said its two different things. I dont have the source here to investigate for you |
| 00:45.23 | genr8_ | https://gnupg.org/download/index.html |
| 00:45.28 | A|an | found this: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20.2.4 |
| 00:45.46 | genr8_ | thats the old systems one, 1.8.5 |
| 00:46.03 | genr8_ | 1.8.4-5* |
| 00:46.20 | genr8_ | the gnupg downlaod website says it should be 1.8.6 |
| 00:46.26 | A|an | yeah, I buitlt the latest version of libgcrypt |
| 00:46.49 | A|an | that's what I built and installed |
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| 00:47.30 | A|an | I have the entire sequence in a text file...if I can find somewhere to upload it, you can take a look |
| 00:48.14 | genr8_ | !pastebin |
| 00:48.15 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
| 00:50.24 | A|an | https://paste.debian.net/1165198/ |
| 00:51.23 | genr8_ | that shows that you only ran "make", not "make install" |
| 00:51.36 | A|an | https://paste.debian.net/1165199/ |
| 00:51.47 | A|an | part 1 and 2 |
| 00:52.08 | genr8_ | Line 775. Libraries have been installed in /usr/local/lib |
| 00:52.21 | A|an | i ran make, make check, make install, make installcheck, make clean |
| 00:52.49 | genr8_ | they are in /usr/local/lib/ |
| 00:54.44 | genr8_ | do you concur |
| 00:55.58 | A|an | https://i.imgur.com/5ku1jGi.png |
| 00:56.29 | genr8_ | what are the other ones. do "ls -l" and see if those are all from just now |
| 00:56.46 | A|an | yeah, good point |
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| 00:58.26 | A|an | https://i.imgur.com/UxMV53l.png |
| 00:58.47 | A|an | I don't see the version I built |
| 00:59.11 | genr8_ | i do. its called 20.2.6 , the version numbers dont match 1.8.6 , i cant explain the details of why but thats right |
| 00:59.40 | A|an | 1.8.6 |
| 00:59.51 | A|an | ! |
| 00:59.54 | A|an | oh |
| 01:00.09 | A|an | okay |
| 01:00.16 | A|an | so I don't have a problem |
| 01:00.20 | A|an | the joke's on me |
| 01:00.25 | genr8_ | you still need to do something else |
| 01:00.30 | A|an | waht? |
| 01:00.37 | genr8_ | yea |
| 01:01.11 | genr8_ | I would do "nano /etc/ld.so.conf.d/usr-local-lib.conf" and put "/usr/local/lib" inside it - then rerun "ldconfig" as root |
| 01:01.18 | genr8_ | this will create a new file |
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| 01:02.05 | genr8_ | theres more than 1 way forward here, but thats my solution |
| 01:03.47 | genr8_ | it still needs to know how to find them |
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| 01:05.34 | A|an | so it wasn't finding the proper library, correct |
| 01:06.18 | genr8_ | yes. like I said, the /usr/local/lib/ root dir is not automatically valid on debian. only the subdir /usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu is, and it did not put them in that for some reason |
| 01:07.34 | genr8_ | so you could also make that dir and move all those files there. but thats more work than adding the root dir and I dont think it matters. |
| 01:07.46 | A|an | ok |
| 01:08.09 | genr8_ | <genr8_> I would do "nano /etc/ld.so.conf.d/usr-local-lib.conf" and put "/usr/local/lib" inside it - then rerun "ldconfig" as root |
| 01:08.51 | genr8_ | after that, ldconfig should detect that 20.2.6 > 20.2.4 (again that corresponds to 1.8.6 and 1.8.4 for some reason) = and use the new one. |
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| 01:12.11 | Guest4516 | hi |
| 01:12.19 | Guest4516 | how do i get a debian cloak? |
| 01:12.36 | A|an | thanks for the hlep |
| 01:12.51 | genr8_ | I may be wrong on the automatic version upgrade detection. make sure it detects 1.8.6 |
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| 01:13.07 | genr8_ | Guest4516, its a freenode server cloak, not per channel |
| 01:13.18 | Guest4516 | yeah |
| 01:13.22 | Guest4516 | i want one of those |
| 01:13.31 | A|an | acutally, I'm having an issue...i don't seem to have ldconfig installed (but the man page comes up!) |
| 01:13.38 | genr8_ | must be root. |
| 01:13.46 | A|an | I am |
| 01:14.03 | genr8_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:15.31 | A|an | i didn't get a command not found, just a rtn to a new line |
| 01:15.53 | genr8_ | then it ran. it shoulda said generating something |
| 01:15.59 | A|an | i guess i need to fix my environment |
| 01:16.11 | A|an | it didn't |
| 01:16.24 | A|an | is the weird? |
| 01:16.36 | A|an | that <- the |
| 01:17.02 | genr8_ | kinda indicatates you did not edit the /etc ld .conf file properly |
| 01:17.30 | genr8_ | or your system is not what I think it is. Is this actually Debian 10 Buster ? |
| 01:17.46 | A|an | i used vi instead of nano |
| 01:17.50 | A|an | just a sec |
| 01:17.57 | A|an | yes |
| 01:18.02 | A|an | deb 10 |
| 01:18.08 | A|an | 10.5 |
| 01:18.58 | genr8_ | cat /etc/ld.so.conf.d/usr-local-lib.conf should print /usr/local/lib |
| 01:20.01 | A|an | correct |
| 01:20.02 | themill | that should already be in /etc/ld.so.conf.d/libc.conf |
| 01:20.29 | genr8_ | damn thats true |
| 01:20.50 | A|an | for me, ld.so.conf is a file |
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| 01:21.02 | genr8_ | yea, it points to the .d directory |
| 01:21.17 | genr8_ | that explains why nothing was generated... what it doesnt explain is why its not detected still |
| 01:21.24 | A|an | contains: include /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*.conf |
| 01:22.01 | genr8_ | well, run gnupg again see if it says 1.8.4 or 1.8.6 now |
| 01:22.03 | genr8_ | maybe it worked who knows |
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| 01:23.02 | A|an | gpg (GnuPG) 2.2.23 libgcrypt 1.8.6 |
| 01:23.07 | A|an | it's there |
| 01:23.12 | genr8_ | ok good, it worked |
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| 01:23.18 | A|an | <blink-blink> |
| 01:23.36 | genr8_ | i have no idea what caused that to happen but it worked... |
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| 01:23.58 | genr8_ | maybe just re-running ldconfig was all that was needed to begin with |
| 01:23.59 | A|an | I was about to say, how did this fix actually take plane (for future reference) |
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| 01:24.13 | A|an | true |
| 01:24.21 | A|an | it's about the only explanation |
| 01:24.24 | genr8_ | this took way too long lol |
| 01:24.32 | A|an | i need to fix the environement |
| 01:24.38 | genr8_ | im gonna have to up my game for next time |
| 01:24.42 | A|an | yeah, tell me about it lol |
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| 01:24.56 | A|an | i appreciate the help |
| 01:24.57 | A|an | thx |
| 01:25.28 | genr8_ | yw |
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| 01:29.54 | genr8_ | themill, its a good thing you mentioned that. I checked my terminal logs, i meant to read all those files, but it looks like I opened the same .conf file twice by accident and never checked libc.conf |
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| 01:30.25 | genr8_ | definite oops. could have saved 20 minutes |
| 01:31.15 | themill | heh |
| 01:31.23 | themill | "head -n -0 -v /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*" ftw next time |
| 01:32.24 | genr8_ | true |
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| 02:40.21 | willow | building the kernel at step 'fakeroot debian/rules target' what is 'target' supposed to be? amd64? |
| 02:44.13 | epitamizor | could be many things, what was the command you ran? |
| 02:45.01 | willow | epitamizor: up till now i followed all the steps in 4.3 https://kernel-team.pages.debian.net/kernel-handbook/ch-common-tasks.html#s-common-official-vcs |
| 02:45.29 | willow | just want the amd64 kernel |
| 02:46.46 | willow | it says "to build all possible packages for this architecture run fakeroot debian/rules binary" |
| 02:47.11 | willow | i don't understand the section for building for one flavour |
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| 02:48.29 | willow | well i'm justing using 'binary' as the target |
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| 02:50.45 | inerkick | I'm trying to install MagicFountain on my debain machine , it's app image isn't working. I am not sure how to do with the source file the developer provider. Please help https://appimage.github.io/MagicFountain/ https://aztorius.github.io/magicfountain/ My laptop is 32 bit |
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| 02:54.42 | n4dir | inerkick: What means "not working" ? Did you do chmod, as the page says? |
| 02:55.18 | inerkick | yeah. I tried that chmoad a+x ./app.Appimage but it didn't work |
| 02:55.50 | inerkick | n4dir, cannot execute binary file: Exec format erro |
| 02:55.59 | inerkick | i think it's for 64 bit? I am not sure |
| 02:56.23 | n4dir | let me try here, i got 64 bit |
| 02:56.33 | inerkick | he gave the source package, but I don't know how to use it to install |
| 02:56.51 | inerkick | cool. Thanks |
| 02:57.35 | n4dir | downloading will take a bit |
| 02:58.22 | n4dir | source code usually has a "README" file, which tells how to install it. Sometimes "INSTALL" or something like that |
| 02:58.22 | inerkick | no worries. the source package is smaller one |
| 02:58.27 | inerkick | it was around 300kb something |
| 02:58.45 | inerkick | yes, i checked that, but he haven't mentioned what to do in there |
| 02:59.11 | n4dir | Yes, can happen |
| 02:59.52 | inerkick | ### Linux |
| 02:59.52 | inerkick | ```bash |
| 02:59.52 | inerkick | qmake |
| 02:59.52 | inerkick | make |
| 02:59.52 | inerkick | sudo make install |
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| 03:05.40 | willow | no gcc-10 in buster-backports. can i build it from the debian source? |
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| 03:15.08 | longears | Hey guys. I have an HDD image which was created with `dd`. Any way to mount it, knowing that it has `zfs` on it? |
| 03:16.58 | another | loop mount |
| 03:19.58 | longears | Oh, thanks. I remember that it was something obvious, but couldn't remember what. :D |
| 03:20.59 | another | losetup --find --show <image>; mount /dev/... /mnt |
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| 03:23.28 | longears | Aaaand, now it sees the 149G disk with FreeBSD 5.1 on it. :) Has been years since I wanted to get stuff from it. |
| 03:26.37 | dvs | another: you shouldn't have told longears about loop mount!!!! ;-P |
| 03:27.02 | another | hm? |
| 03:27.29 | another | oh. sarcasm. that's original! |
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| 03:30.22 | longears | Heh. :P I haven't been dealing with images for some time. I remembered the loop/bind, but couldn't really remember which one it was and how it was supposed to be used. :D |
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| 03:36.43 | ryouma | i thought you did mount -o loop? |
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| 03:37.00 | ryouma | didn't know you needed losetup |
| 03:38.05 | ryouma | (perhaps it is because zfs works differently from native linux fses?) |
| 03:39.24 | longears | Probably. I just wanted for system to see that image is a block device. Then I can start messing with zfs. `losetup` did the job, so now I'm trying to figure out how to make zfs work on Debian. Going to be a fun evening. |
| 03:40.44 | ryouma | great it worked. (maybe losetup makes a block device wherease mount -o loop bypasses that whole step?) |
| 03:41.29 | longears | I guess so. I remember doing `mount -o loop` with ext[234] devices. |
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| 03:44.26 | another | not sure how well mount loop handles partitions |
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| 03:52.15 | tohoyn | ratrace: hello |
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| 04:01.10 | ryouma | another: what would one mount except for a (presumably file containing a) partition? |
| 04:01.27 | ryouma | (not rhetorical) |
| 04:01.28 | kline\0 | ryouma: a horse |
| 04:02.44 | another | iso images, afaik, do not contain partitions |
| 04:02.58 | kline\0 | ryouma: the man pages suggest that things like NFS shares do not appear as files |
| 04:03.42 | kline\0 | obviously local devices will typically get a device file but things like network shares do not |
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| 04:04.45 | ryouma | ok, i will take it that some things require losetup and some don't, and nfs shares, idk what one does to mount them |
| 04:05.27 | kline\0 | same as normal, just it looks like `knuth.cwi.nl:/dir` |
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| 04:06.53 | another | there's also some qemu tool to create a a blockdevice from a file |
| 04:07.18 | another | including qcow |
| 04:10.02 | willow | i installed the buster-backports linux-image-5.8.0-0. when i try to install the corresponding headers it says "Error! The dkms.conf for this module includes a BUILD_EXCLUSIVE directive which does not match this kernel/arch" |
| 04:10.54 | willow | the message is from /usr/src/aufs-4.19+20190211/dkms.conf which has line: BUILD_EXCLUSIVE_KERNEL="^4.19.*" aufs is needed for docker so i wonder if docker won't run with the 5.8 kernel? |
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| 05:11.15 | genr8_ | ,v aufs |
| 05:11.16 | judd | No package named 'aufs' was found in amd64. |
| 05:11.28 | genr8_ | cant you install a backport of aufs that matches ? |
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| 05:13.26 | willow | genr8_: aufs-dkms which creates /usr/src/aufs-4.19+20190211/ |
| 05:13.44 | willow | genr8_: unfortunately there's not a bpo version available |
| 05:15.13 | willow | running a docker container now and it's giving errors. i think aufs module needs to be built for the 5.8 kernel for docker to work |
| 05:15.38 | genr8_ | yes |
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| 05:18.15 | willow | also tried the method in sec. 4.3 to build 5.8.10 kernel https://kernel-team.pages.debian.net/kernel-handbook/ch-common-tasks.html#s-common-official-vcs |
| 05:18.34 | willow | everything seems to work until it actually goes to compile and it fails because no gcc-10 |
| 05:18.48 | diabel | Hello eweryone |
| 05:18.52 | diabel | everyone* |
| 05:19.16 | willow | and i think i can't install the sid version of gcc-10 without changing the entire system libc6 abi level |
| 05:20.04 | genr8_ | yea |
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| 05:22.42 | willow | well let me change BUILD_EXCLUSIVE_KERNEL and see what happens |
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| 05:50.01 | willow | too bad i never got bpo 5.7.10-1 to run either. |
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| 08:06.37 | TuxCrazy | I needed this package called OpenBoard on Debian 10. Is it possible to make this available on Debian 10? |
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| 08:07.50 | ksk | ,v openboard |
| 08:07.52 | judd | No package named 'openboard' was found in amd64. |
| 08:07.56 | TuxCrazy | http://www.openboard.ch/index.en.html |
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| 08:08.57 | ksk | TuxCrazy: a) the entity developing it can supply Debian Packags b) you can build your own c) a debian maintainer can choose to integrate it into debian |
| 08:09.22 | ksk | None of these are "ready to use" solutions for you. |
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| 08:09.35 | ksk | If you want to use the software, I suggest going for an *buntu server. |
| 08:09.41 | TuxCrazy | ksk, then, what's the solution, for me? |
| 08:10.03 | TuxCrazy | ksk, you mean I should switch to Ubuntu? |
| 08:10.10 | ksk | that depends on your needs. Use Ubuntu. Dont use the softare. Install from Source. |
| 08:10.36 | TuxCrazy | ksk, ok |
| 08:11.22 | ksk | (( It might be possible to just install the ubuntu .deb on your debian system, but without a solid understanding of Debian GNU/Linux you cannot really tell, so I am totally not encouraging you to do that.. )) |
| 08:11.47 | ksk | (and it can theoreticly end up breaking your system) |
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| 08:11.57 | TuxCrazy | ksk, I tried that. But, couldn't install using that deb file. |
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| 08:12.33 | TuxCrazy | ksk, it showed some dependency related error. |
| 08:13.22 | ksk | ,v qt |
| 08:13.23 | judd | No package named 'qt' was found in amd64. |
| 08:13.47 | ksk | ,v libqt5core5a |
| 08:13.48 | judd | Package: libqt5core5a on amd64 -- jessie: 5.3.2+dfsg-4+deb8u2; jessie-security: 5.3.2+dfsg-4+deb8u4; stretch: 5.7.1+dfsg-3+deb9u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 5.7.1+dfsg-3+deb9u2; stretch-security: 5.7.1+dfsg-3+deb9u2; buster-security: 5.11.3+dfsg1-1+deb10u3; buster: 5.11.3+dfsg1-1+deb10u4; bullseye: 5.14.2+dfsg-6; sid: 5.14.2+dfsg-6; experimental: 5.15.1+dfsg-1 |
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| 08:14.41 | ksk | QT-requirements seem to be fullfilled, so you might be able to install it from source. |
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| 08:18.46 | TuxCrazy | ok |
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| 08:30.51 | afidegnum | ehlo , anyone familiar with cloudflare? for the past 3 days, i tried in vain to make this SSL thing works, with no success... can you please give a hand ? this is the error i'm getting https://dpaste.org/iJOC |
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| 08:34.56 | ksk | afidegnum: and that is related to Debian in which way? Contact CF support.. |
| 08:36.08 | ksk | The error indicates that curl and the server do not have a cipher in common. I would suppose you just have to revert whatever you setup in CF to standard, and it will work.. |
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| 08:42.09 | ratrace | afidegnum: you asked this yesterday, maybe in another channel? you said that wasn't CF but direct connection. did you fix that part? |
| 08:43.26 | afidegnum | it works on direct connection not on SSL |
| 08:43.43 | ratrace | by "direct" I mean bypassing CF servers, and directly to your server's IP |
| 08:44.15 | ratrace | so direct can be SSL or plain http, those are two different things here. You have to give us full details of your problem, otherwise we cannot help. |
| 08:45.05 | afidegnum | ratrace: yes, that's what i did when the SSL seems not to work but when i switched back to SSL, i have a handshake error |
| 08:45.46 | ksk | afidegnum: your sentence does not logically match with what ratrace asked.. |
| 08:45.47 | ratrace | so... right now... your pastebin... is that direct connection to your server, or via Cloud Flare? you're not making that clear. |
| 08:46.28 | afidegnum | ratrace: i have this error when switched to CF ssl |
| 08:46.57 | ksk | afidegnum: and what do you get if you directly connect to your server? Does the handshake work then? |
| 08:47.00 | ratrace | afidegnum: okay, so minimize variables, check one thing at a time. can you make a successful SSL connection to your server directly? |
| 08:47.09 | ratrace | highfives ksk |
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| 08:50.19 | ksk | afidegnum: If you do not know how to directly connect to your server bypassing CF it would be a valid thing to ask ;) |
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| 08:54.02 | afidegnum | connecting directly resutls in the same issue, |
| 08:55.22 | ratrace | afidegnum: so back to the question I asked you yesterday, can you check nginx error log, it should be logging TLS handshake failures and reasons |
| 08:55.43 | ksk | 08:54 < afidegnum> manifest: i have this in my nginx configuration could it also be a factor?: server_tokens off; ssl_protocols TLSv1 TLSv1.1 TLSv1.2 |
| 08:58.12 | ratrace | afidegnum: if you add these options to curl, does it work then? --tlsv1.2 --tls-max 1.2 ? |
| 08:58.35 | afidegnum | ok, let me check |
| 08:59.44 | afidegnum | ratrace: https://dpaste.org/9h7L |
| 09:00.49 | ratrace | yeah your server config is definitely busted. please pastebin: 1) /etc/nginx/nginx.conf 2) whatever file defines the isodec.org server{} stanza 3) entries in /var/log/nginx/error.log associated with this failed connection |
| 09:01.25 | afidegnum | ok, |
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| 09:01.49 | ratrace | afidegnum: also, what's on the client side? which distro and version? which curl version? did you alter /etc/ssl/openssl.cnf cipher lists or something? |
| 09:01.53 | afidegnum | the issue is, i migrated from an old server to a new one and followed the same procedure, everything was working before |
| 09:02.21 | ratrace | afidegnum: same question for "old" and "new" server. distro, version, ... |
| 09:02.22 | afidegnum | using debian stretch, |
| 09:02.32 | afidegnum | both of them |
| 09:02.37 | ratrace | and the client side? |
| 09:03.19 | afidegnum | curl 7.72.0 |
| 09:04.18 | afidegnum | i did not alter any ssl cypher list, at /etc/ssh/openssl.cnf |
| 09:04.30 | ratrace | what distro is that on the client side? |
| 09:04.31 | ratrace | ,v curl |
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| 09:04.32 | judd | Package: curl on amd64 -- jessie: 7.38.0-4+deb8u11; jessie-security: 7.38.0-4+deb8u16; stretch: 7.52.1-5+deb9u10; stretch-proposed-updates: 7.52.1-5+deb9u10; stretch-security: 7.52.1-5+deb9u10; buster: 7.64.0-4+deb10u1; buster-security: 7.64.0-4+deb10u1; bullseye: 7.72.0-1; sid: 7.72.0-1 |
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| 09:04.43 | ratrace | bullseye I assume? |
| 09:04.56 | afidegnum | i'm using arch |
| 09:05.09 | ratrace | ok. so please, the pastebin with those 3 things. |
| 09:05.13 | afidegnum | ok |
| 09:05.46 | Fox | does a curl work localy on the server with --resolve |
| 09:06.55 | afidegnum | Fox: i haven't tried that yet |
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| 09:09.45 | afidegnum | ratrace: nginx.conf: https://termbin.com/rn6p |
| 09:10.24 | afidegnum | conf.d/isodec.conf : https://termbin.com/u23k |
| 09:12.37 | afidegnum | no error outputs on /var/logs/nginx/error.log except: 2020/09/30 10:03:38 [notice] 24599#24599: signal process started |
| 09:12.40 | afidegnum | that's all |
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| 09:13.49 | ratrace | afidegnum: something's not right there. you have two server{} blocks with the same server_name; nginx wouldn't allow that. are you sure nginx is even running? |
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| 09:15.05 | ratrace | and are you looking at the correct error log? apparently you have isodec.error.log as well |
| 09:15.24 | ksk | imho having nginx set to "anything but 1.3" and CF set to "only 1.3" looks problematic (granted, I dont know anything about CF) |
| 09:16.12 | ratrace | ksk: it's debian stretch. tlsv1.3 is unavailable. and <TLS1.0 is very much not recommended; I'd say anything <TLSv1.2 isn't either but that's a much less important issue now |
| 09:17.10 | ratrace | as for CF config... I don't know if that applies to backend connections (eg, CF allowing 1.3 only on the front end, but a wider range on back end), but that's also secondary now if direct connection (bypassing CF) doesn't work yet |
| 09:17.27 | afidegnum | ratrace: nginx is running ok so far, i have restarted several times with no errors. apparent errors were corrected |
| 09:18.11 | ksk | ratrace: you are right, that is different. Here is the list of "origin ciphers" (used to connect to your server): https://developers.cloudflare.com/ssl/origin/cipher-suites/ |
| 09:18.25 | ratrace | afidegnum: you definitelly cannot have two server blocks with the same server_name. check the other error log, it must've complained about that |
| 09:20.07 | ratrace | ksk: right, so one potential problem is limiting ciphersuites to 1.3 but limiting tls to <1.3. according to the pastes, ciphersuites are not explicitly set unless there's another file sourced by nginx where they might be..... |
| 09:20.12 | afidegnum | that's for isodec.error.log: /etc/letsencrypt/live/isodec.org/fullchain.pem |
| 09:20.26 | ratrace | afidegnum: in which case, is there anything in /etc/nginx/conf.d/ that forces ciphersuites list? |
| 09:21.09 | ratrace | afidegnum: what do you meant by "that's for isodec.error.log"? |
| 09:21.31 | afidegnum | you were requesting for nginx error logs for isodec.error.log |
| 09:21.55 | ratrace | yes, so what does that letsencrypt path have to do with that? |
| 09:22.01 | ksk | there is no way an nginx.error log only contains the path you pasted, and nothing else.. |
| 09:22.13 | ksk | !pastebinit |
| 09:22.13 | dpkg | A command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "apt-get install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg 2>&1 | pastebinit". For a list of pastebin sites do "pastebinit -l". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>. |
| 09:23.46 | afidegnum | i was using letsencrypt initially, and later switched to CF on my old server and everyting worked. i just transposed the same configuration to the new server |
| 09:25.22 | efloid | i have the source for aufs which i need to build to match the bpo 5.8 kernel. however "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" fails with error "Unmet build dependencies: linux-kbuild-5.2" |
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| 09:26.29 | efloid | fwiw i have linux-kbuild 4.19 and 5.8 installed |
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| 09:27.55 | ksk | ,v aufs-dkms |
| 09:27.56 | judd | Package: aufs-dkms on amd64 -- stretch: 4.9+20161219-1; buster: 4.19+20190211-1; sid: 5.2+20190909-1.1 |
| 09:27.57 | ratrace | afidegnum: are you going to show us the actual isodec.error.log entries? |
| 09:28.22 | afidegnum | ratrace: there is nothing else is i inspected what could folce the ciphersuites list, |
| 09:28.55 | afidegnum | oh, sorry |
| 09:28.56 | afidegnum | wait |
| 09:29.15 | afidegnum | i didn't see the let's encrypt typo |
| 09:29.55 | afidegnum | ratrace: isodec.error.log https://termbin.com/x0q0 |
| 09:29.59 | efloid | ksk: the issue is that aufs-dkms won't build with buster-backport linux-image-5.8.0-0 |
| 09:30.20 | efloid | ksk: so not able to run docker, etc. using the 5.8 bpo kernel |
| 09:30.41 | ksk | efloid: I see, I am trying to understand the context. Did you take a look at overlayfs already? From what I read its the aufs replacement of sorts |
| 09:31.17 | efloid | ksk: no not yet. if that works that would be great. |
| 09:31.20 | ksk | ps: for docker, you really want to use the upstream packages, not the one coming from debian. |
| 09:31.42 | ratrace | afidegnum: those are 404 not found logged as errors (you can disble 404s going into error log with server wide log_not_found off;) |
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| 09:32.22 | afidegnum | ok |
| 09:32.27 | ksk | efloid: "lsmod | grep overlay" should tell you if its shipped with your kernel. |
| 09:32.40 | efloid | ksk: yes am using download.docker.com/linux/debian |
| 09:32.41 | ratrace | afidegnum: so at this point something tells me you're not actually hitting that nginx with your curl. can you verify that with access.log? does it list your curl requests? maybe even with tcpdump? |
| 09:33.06 | efloid | ksk: yes it's there! |
| 09:33.09 | ksk | efloid: kk. I did not run it with backported kernel, but on sid docker from upstream is doing fine for me. |
| 09:33.20 | ksk | (not saying you should run sid) |
| 09:34.00 | ratrace | the IP in your first paste indicates it's not CF but Hetzner, with rdns of mail.teleconso.com. is that what it should be? |
| 09:34.06 | ratrace | afidegnum: ^ |
| 09:35.17 | ksk | afidegnum: one first thing to check could also be using curl on the server, to connect to the server ( as in "curl --resolve example.com:443:127.0.0.1 https://example.com/" ) -- if that is able to establish an ssl handshake, its a first step.. |
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| 09:36.22 | afidegnum | ratrace: yes, |
| 09:36.48 | afidegnum | that's what is being used initially |
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| 09:37.13 | afidegnum | could that also affect the SSL ? |
| 09:37.30 | afidegnum | ksk: checking |
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| 09:39.08 | afidegnum | ksk: this is strange, curl: (35) Unknown SSL protocol error in connection to isodec.org:443 |
| 09:39.33 | afidegnum | from the client, i have connection refused error to port 443 |
| 09:39.54 | ksk | So, fix your nginx config first. gonna paste some #nginx faqtoids.. |
| 09:40.33 | ksk | afidegnum: see #nginx, having your complete config would be a first step. |
| 09:41.06 | ksk | But in general: Start fresh with your config, only putin some hosts, leave out any ssl_configuration apart from "listen foo ssl" and defining certs, and it should just work.. |
| 09:42.22 | ratrace | afidegnum: also that first server{} stanza with IFs is terribly wrong. if certbot is creating those, I have no words... |
| 09:42.59 | ratrace | remove it anyway because it's in conflict with the second server{} stanza. I think nginx actually takes the _first_ one, complaining about duplicates, so definitely remove it for testing |
| 09:43.19 | ksk | correct. |
| 09:43.44 | afidegnum | i've added that config from ajenti interface, |
| 09:43.47 | afidegnum | i just removed it, |
| 09:44.13 | ratrace | afidegnum: for example, this is what nginx says on nginx -t if you have duplicate server_name stanzas (tested for "localhost"): nginx: [warn] conflicting server name "localhost" on 0.0.0.0:80, ignored |
| 09:44.31 | ratrace | so yeah, it's a warning, not error, nginx starts, but ignores the second stanza. I bet that's your problem here. |
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| 09:50.59 | afidegnum | ok, the issue, is, when switching CF encryption mode tu Flexible, assets pointing via http are blocked. except https, the handshake error is happening on full mode. I have deleted `server{...}` |
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| 09:51.50 | afidegnum | ratrace: did you say the rdns is not correct ? |
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| 09:52.36 | ratrace | afidegnum: I did not. I asked if that IP is the correct one for your testing, and just named the rdns I found on it |
| 09:53.09 | ratrace | afidegnum: also........... FORGET CloudFlare. You first have to test proper connections to your server directly. No CF in between. OK? |
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| 09:53.37 | ratrace | when you've made sure you can connect to your server directly via https, ONLY THEN engange CF.... |
| 09:54.16 | afidegnum | ok |
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| 09:57.12 | afidegnum | is there a way to get/log ssl errors? |
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| 09:58.44 | ksk | afidegnum: You wont get anything more than "ciphers do not match". Also, you did not share your config as advised by ngxbot in #nginx, did you? |
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| 09:59.12 | afidegnum | nginx -t |
| 09:59.13 | afidegnum | nginx: the configuration file /etc/nginx/nginx.conf syntax is ok |
| 09:59.13 | afidegnum | nginx: configuration file /etc/nginx/nginx.conf test is successful |
| 09:59.38 | ksk | nice. Now read again what ngxbot wrote. |
| 10:00.45 | ksk | Should you not want to disclose your config publicly, I suggest getting paid support. Without it we cannot really say anything about your problem. |
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| 10:04.52 | afidegnum | http://paste.debian.net/1165236/ |
| 10:05.03 | afidegnum | ksk: ^ |
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| 10:07.44 | ratrace | afidegnum: that's one giant fail of nginx config. every server stanza is duplicated. you have to stop doing that, or using whatever piece of ... is doing that. |
| 10:08.28 | ratrace | (duplicated = multiple stanzas with same server_name) |
| 10:08.53 | afidegnum | ok, let me locate and try clearing |
| 10:10.11 | ratrace | afidegnum: the proper way to do redirects is to have tiny server{} stanza with return 301 URL; or 302, whatev. no if ($host ...), that's wrong. yes I see now the server_names are commented out, but in that first post you did, they were not.... so check that twice, three times over. nginx -t will complain on duplicates. |
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| 10:13.37 | ksk | thats a 2000 lines nginx config. gosh. |
| 10:13.41 | afidegnum | ratrace: i tried clearning it. i think it's better, http://paste.debian.net/1165240/ |
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| 10:14.40 | ksk | afidegnum: If I asked you, "why did you set sendfile, tcp_nopush" or any other option, do you have a reason? If not, remove them.. |
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| 10:15.43 | ratrace | afidegnum: but you now have server{} blocks with no server_name ... look. disable it all if you can. have only one, testing server {} with proper server_name, certificate, and run against that only. it's very hard and time consuming to go through 1965 lines of your config, 99% of which is not needed for this case. |
| 10:16.23 | ksk | this. just found the server without server_name. See another faqtoid I spawn for you in #nginx regarding nginx matchingorder.. |
| 10:16.28 | afidegnum | ksk: tcp_nopush is autogenerated from Agenti admin panel, not me |
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| 10:23.48 | efloid | ksk: docker is working! set up the overlayfs2 driver per https://docs.docker.com/storage/storagedriver/overlayfs-driver/ |
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| 10:25.54 | ksk | glad to hear that :) |
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| 10:28.12 | centrix | I have a Deb10 in a VM (KVM/QEMU). I can hear sound, but nothing gets in through my microphone. |
| 10:28.22 | centrix | Any help, please? |
| 10:28.32 | centrix | Model: AC97 |
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| 10:29.46 | centrix | Mic and audio work in the host machine normally. |
| 10:31.24 | centrix | May be the VM/QEMU setup, but also my Deb setup. So sorry if missplaced. |
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| 10:45.34 | afidegnum | ratrace: can you please give an example of if-redirect to ssl? replacing the server stanza ? |
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| 10:47.10 | codedmart | How do I debug my computer not waking up from sleep? It has happened twice now where at night my laptop suspends, but then in the morning I can never get it to wake up. I have to hold the power button down to turn off then turn back on. |
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| 10:47.48 | Haohmaru | codedmart do you wait "enough" time until you decide that it won't wake up? |
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| 10:49.17 | codedmart | Haohmaru waited 5 mins moving mouse and clicking spacebar and other keyboard buttons. How long should it take. |
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| 10:49.56 | ansimita | codedmart: maybe check out `man systemd-sleep.conf` and your /etc/systemd/sleep.conf |
| 10:50.20 | Haohmaru | codedmart on some machines, you can't actually wake it up using mice/keyboards, you have to press a button on the computer |
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| 10:50.56 | Haohmaru | i don't know about laptops, but on some machines here, mice/keyboards have no power during suspend, so i have to press the power button to wake it up |
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| 10:52.32 | codedmart | Haohmaru I did try pushing the power button as well with no success. |
| 10:52.45 | codedmart | Well unless I needed to wait longer. |
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| 11:00.33 | Haohmaru | codedmart doesn't it have LEDs with different color that sorta indicate when it's sleeping? |
| 11:00.45 | codedmart | Interesting I just read something about d3cold_allowed for the nvme driver. `cat /sys/bus/pci/devices/0000\:01\:00.0/d3cold_allowed` shows 1. |
| 11:01.00 | Haohmaru | those should react immediately when the machine figures you wanna wake it up, then it may take a long time before it actually comes to life |
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| 11:01.19 | codedmart | Haohmaru not this model does not. This is a 2015 macbook pro. |
| 11:01.28 | codedmart | No LED's at all |
| 11:01.58 | Haohmaru | huh, wut |
| 11:02.07 | Haohmaru | how do you tell that it's "on" then |
| 11:03.56 | codedmart | It the screen and apple logo behind the screen are on basically. My previous model had an LED. |
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| 11:06.49 | dvs | !wb |
| 11:06.50 | dpkg | thanks, dvs. It's good to be back. |
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| 11:47.02 | Haohmaru | codedmart also, i wonder if it really suspends or hibernates |
| 11:47.32 | codedmart | Haohmaru good question I suppose. |
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| 11:48.43 | Haohmaru | waking up from hibernation would take more time.. that would be powering on from a power off state, booting as usual (BIOS/whatever) then debian should see that this is a wake up from hibernation and it'll load previously saved RAM state from disk into RAM and then your session (hopefully) is resumed |
| 11:49.18 | Haohmaru | roughly.. i don't know.. i only use Suspend, and my computers don't have batteries |
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| 11:50.42 | Haohmaru | codedmart you could check out if manual "suspend" works on your machine btw.. log into the desktop, open up some silly text editor and write some "kjashdkajsh" text in it, then do a Suspend, observe what happens, then try to wake it up and see if/how that works |
| 11:51.33 | nvz | codedmart: does it wake back up? |
| 11:52.07 | codedmart | nvz I have not been able to wake it up twice now. |
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| 11:52.45 | codedmart | Haohmaru it is not hibernating. I do know that. In the syslog it showed some suspend messages. |
| 11:52.51 | nvz | my machines which are Lenovo x240 and T440 have to press the power button to wake from suspend.. |
| 11:53.23 | nvz | I think this is just due to the way these core i processors work in that state |
| 11:53.36 | Haohmaru | codedmart if i were you, i'd test manually going to suspend and waking up, as i explained above |
| 11:53.37 | codedmart | nvz Yeah I tried pressing the power button and waiting a few minutes. Nothing. |
| 11:54.12 | Haohmaru | codedmart does the machine happen to have some crapvidia GPU? |
| 11:54.15 | nvz | codedmart: you're currently using stock buster system and kernel? |
| 11:54.28 | nvz | codedmart: and has it ever properly woken before? |
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| 11:55.10 | codedmart | nvz Yes on stock kernel and buster. Yes it has woken before. |
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| 11:55.31 | codedmart | Haohmaru I just tried manually and it went to sleep fine and woke up fine by pressing the space bar. |
| 11:55.57 | Haohmaru | so, there ya go.. that's an interesting clue |
| 11:55.59 | nvz | codedmart: any difference? like it only wakes when you manually suspend, but doesnt when it does it itself based on power mangement? |
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| 11:56.08 | nvz | ah. |
| 11:56.15 | Herve33 | hello |
| 11:56.32 | ksk | afidegnum: google "nginx redirect https" - be aware that "HTTP 301" is *forever*, use 302 for testing. |
| 11:56.32 | Haohmaru | in what conditions does it decide by itself to suspend? |
| 11:57.09 | codedmart | Haohmaru inactivity for a certain amount of time. I haven't looked at what that time is yet. |
| 11:57.27 | codedmart | nvz I am not sure about any differences yet. |
| 11:57.46 | Haohmaru | okay, i was thinking maybe when the battery is low, and what if it fails to complete the suspend cuz power goes out |
| 11:58.01 | nvz | codedmart: you are not sure if it consistantly wakes manually and consistantly doesnt when auto suspending? |
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| 11:58.13 | nvz | goes to read the backlog a bit more carefully |
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| 11:59.37 | nvz | codedmart: sounds to me like the problem isnt it waking, but that its not actually sleeping |
| 11:59.45 | codedmart | nvz I may have mis understood your question. |
| 11:59.47 | nvz | i.e. something is hanging it from reaching the sleep state |
| 12:01.39 | premoboss | hi debian Linux debian 4.19.0-11-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux, videocard nvidia geforge RTX 2070 super. driver nvidia 440. Perfect resolution at 1920x1080. After update/upgrade/dist-upgrade/reboot i got driver at 450, resolution fallin down to 1024x768. any suggestion how to solve and have back 1920x1080? |
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| 12:02.40 | codedmart | nvz Haohmaru: this is the last set of messages from syslog last night before I had to hard powerdown this morning because I couldn't get it to wake up. https://gist.github.com/codedmart/ebc887a9cf18542555cd7c74fdcca223 |
| 12:04.18 | Haohmaru | is that from one of the "working" ones? |
| 12:04.51 | nvz | codedmart: (lsusb;lspci -nn;cat /proc/acpi/wakeup;journalctl|grep -iP "suspend|power")|nc termbin.com 9999 |
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| 12:05.36 | codedmart | Haohmaru No that was from last night. Then when I got on this morning is when I couldn't get it to wake up. |
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| 12:06.33 | nvz | codedmart: I'd also like to know if you have any knowledge of if this does/does not occur consistently in either the case of manual/auto suspend or on battery/ac |
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| 12:07.32 | nvz | codedmart: if you are unsure, then perhaps in addition to the above information a look at your power management data might be useful |
| 12:07.44 | timur_davletshin | shit... FF 78.3 has been rolled out to Debian Stable |
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| 12:08.39 | nvz | timur_davletshin: you say that like its a bad thing |
| 12:08.54 | nvz | personally I wasn't expecting it to happen anytime soon :P |
| 12:09.03 | codedmart | nvz I do not have knowledge yet. Just starting considering this. |
| 12:09.04 | codedmart | https://termbin.com/rbrb |
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| 12:11.18 | nvz | codedmart: my thoughts here is that your system is not actually sleeping.. the software thinks it is for the most part cause it goes through all the motions, but something is keeping it from actually reaching the sleep state. the info you provided should give more clues as to what sorts of hardware you have and what they are set to do in this state |
| 12:12.21 | nvz | I however am really f'n stressed lately, so it may take me more time to make any sense of this info.. so if anyone else notices something, feel free to chime in :P |
| 12:12.48 | codedmart | nvz No worries at all. I appreciate all your help so far. |
| 12:13.20 | codedmart | I don't expect you to solve it for me. I hope your stress level goes down. |
| 12:14.14 | nvz | yeah me too, if only all problems were as trivial as this one :D |
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| 12:15.28 | nvz | codedmart: if you want to help here too.. the commands first two are listing your hardware and ids.. 3rd is listing what the kernel is set to do on the S3/S4 sleep states for various hw, and the 4th is showing what is actually happening.. we're lookin for a smokin gun here as to something that is keepin the system awake |
| 12:17.12 | nvz | codedmart: this may just require some trial and error.. so you may want to explore the unanswered questions and see if you can assure that for the time being that you can either reproduce the issue manually or not |
| 12:17.33 | nvz | codedmart: if you can consistently get it to hang like this manually, then we can just toggle some things until it works |
| 12:18.15 | timur_davletshin | nvz, sure, suddenly everything breaks. No more XUL. |
| 12:19.25 | nvz | timur_davletshin: hmm. you make me fear tryig to reproduce your issue.. but I do have a desktop here I can throw under the bus if you can be more specific about something I could do to see this problem myself |
| 12:19.44 | codedmart | nvz I will see what else I can figure out later possibly. Gotta do some work for now. Thanks again. |
| 12:19.47 | nvz | only really uses FF for netflix and this machine is the one on the living room tv.. :P |
| 12:20.09 | codedmart | Haohmaru: Thanks for your help as well. |
| 12:20.24 | nvz | codedmart: well my thoughts are fwiw, toggling things in /proc/acpi/wakeup to see if they solve the issue |
| 12:20.43 | nvz | codedmart: likely disabling things that are set to enabled.. like the USB or such that may be preventing the sleep |
| 12:21.25 | nvz | codedmart: keep track of this paste you made on termbin and preferably use the same nick when you come back for further assistance |
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| 12:26.27 | nvz | notes pci 0000:00:1c.0: claimed MacBook Pro poweroff workaround [mem 0x7fa00000-0x7fbfffff] and usb: port power management may be unreliable |
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| 12:28.19 | dka- | hello |
| 12:28.25 | dka- | Can I install wireguard vpn on jessie? |
| 12:29.01 | ksk | !wireguard |
| 12:29.02 | dpkg | well, wireguard is an in-kernel layer 3 VPN with a reputation for speed and code simplicity. See https://wiki.debian.org/Wireguard and https://www.wireguard.com/ |
| 12:29.25 | ksk | dka-: jessie is really old. Cant you upgrade? |
| 12:29.53 | ksk | it does not even have LTS support since June 30, 2020. |
| 12:30.01 | dka- | It's 3 production mesos master servers |
| 12:30.05 | dka- | I am worried of an upgrade not going well |
| 12:30.19 | ksk | Welcome to information technology. |
| 12:30.31 | dka- | apt-get update does fail on the 3 hostrs |
| 12:30.37 | dka- | so it's like playing with the devil now |
| 12:30.51 | dka- | W: Failed to fetch http://debian.mirrors.ovh.net/debian/dists/jessie-backports/main/source/Sources 404 Not Found |
| 12:31.18 | nvz | yes well I doubt forcing in a relatively new VPN solution that requires kernel and userland components would be any less painful |
| 12:31.22 | dka- | removing backport from source resolve this issue |
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| 12:31.42 | dka- | nvz, the question then would be: how to upgrade those hosts? |
| 12:32.02 | dka- | apt-get upgrade , then apt-get dist-upgrade ? |
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| 12:32.12 | nvz | dka-: well if you're using backports your plan for upgrade should include removing such things first |
| 12:32.28 | dka- | how can I know what waS installed from backport ? |
| 12:32.42 | dka- | I never touch those servers because they are sensitive to my development |
| 12:32.55 | nvz | dka-: you need to plot out a course for upgrade which includes taking stock of all non-official packages and also what you need on these machines to ensure the target suite has what you need |
| 12:33.26 | dka- | can you define "plot out a course" and "taking stock" ? |
| 12:33.58 | dka- | http://paste.debian.net/1165266/ |
| 12:34.04 | dka- | this is what I have when I run apt-get update |
| 12:34.10 | dka- | -update+upgrade |
| 12:34.37 | nvz | dka-: plotting your course is carefully planning the upgrade, as you are several releases behind now and these are machines you rely on and probably remote.. and taking stock means making a note of all packages you got from backports or third parties so you can remove them to make the upgrade go well, and reinstall them after |
| 12:35.01 | dka- | how do I take stock? |
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| 12:36.12 | nvz | dka-: these sorts of things are described in the release notes.. I'd first further explore your needs to see if this makes sense.. cause first off for wiregaurd your best bet is to get to buster.. and really being current would probably be in your best interest for other reasons |
| 12:36.27 | dka- | after disabling source.list.d/docker.list I am able to apt update, also after disabling backport, I believe now I must remove all things that was installed from over repo |
| 12:36.28 | nvz | dka-: what sorts of things do you have/need on this machine? |
| 12:36.35 | dka- | but I don't feel great cutting the docker process |
| 12:36.57 | nvz | you /need/ to remove all such sources AND packages to ensure a successful upgrade |
| 12:37.34 | nvz | you can't expect backports and 3rd party packages to upgrade smoothly, they are one of the most common problems people incur with dist-upgrades |
| 12:38.00 | dka- | how can I know what was installed on backport ? |
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| 12:38.20 | dka- | do you know apache mesos ? |
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| 12:38.46 | dka- | Because apache mesos, zookeeper, are running on those host (under docker), and they are the masters of my system |
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| 12:39.03 | dka- | This is what I am using: https://github.com/eBayClassifiedsGroup/PanteraS/ , so basically I only need docker and one nginx front end proxy |
| 12:39.12 | nvz | I have no experience with either those or docker |
| 12:39.22 | nvz | ,v zookeeper |
| 12:39.23 | judd | Package: zookeeper on amd64 -- jessie: 3.4.9-3+deb8u1; jessie-security: 3.4.9-3+deb8u2; stretch: 3.4.9-3+deb9u2; stretch-security: 3.4.9-3+deb9u2; buster: 3.4.13-2; bullseye: 3.4.13-5; sid: 3.4.13-5 |
| 12:39.27 | dka- | but since those are 3 mesos master, if I must remove docker first on one host, I may have issue restoring the state later |
| 12:39.39 | dka- | zookeeper is also within docker (cf panteras link) |
| 12:39.59 | dka- | How can I know the list of package that should be "stocked" |
| 12:40.37 | dka- | how can I see installed backports package? |
| 12:42.17 | nvz | dka-: https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#system-status |
| 12:43.01 | dka- | nvz, bash: apt-forktracer: command not found |
| 12:43.09 | dka- | aptitude also does not exist, apt does |
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| 12:44.28 | dka- | I feel bad about upgrading debian now |
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| 12:44.52 | nvz | dka-: yes, you'd need to install these, they are not base packages |
| 12:45.12 | nvz | I am not familiar with apt-fortracer, but I am familiar with aptitude |
| 12:45.15 | dka- | can I safely apt-upgrade ? |
| 12:45.29 | dka- | I mean, should I run it or is it stupid? |
| 12:45.32 | nvz | aptitude is far more advanced than apt, and also is an interactive pacakge manager |
| 12:45.41 | nvz | dka-: I would not recommend it based on what you've told me |
| 12:45.49 | nvz | dka-: you need a PLAN first |
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| 12:46.46 | nvz | dka-: you need to upgrade twice.. first to stretch, then to buster.. and given that these are production type machines with backports and possibly 3rd party packages I can't recommend you doing this without understanding what I'm telling you and the release notes section 4.2* describe |
| 12:47.08 | nvz | the upgrade process is suppose to go smoothly, but as that section says only from "pure" systems |
| 12:47.22 | dka- | Ok, I am not installing aptitude on the 3 hosts |
| 12:47.23 | nvz | your system is not "pure" that much is clear |
| 12:47.24 | dka- | one is failing with : E: Package 'aptitude' has no installation candidate |
| 12:47.44 | nvz | dka-: thats likely due to stale cache |
| 12:48.02 | dka- | This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or... |
| 12:48.06 | dka- | What's stale cache? |
| 12:48.07 | nvz | dka-: you will want to apt-get update and resolve any repo issues |
| 12:48.16 | ksk | crossposting all day. shalalala. |
| 12:48.27 | nvz | dka-: yes, that the package cache on the system is not current with the mirror its looking to fetch aptitude from |
| 12:48.34 | dka- | https://termbin.com/wryc4 |
| 12:48.41 | dka- | I have no issue with apt-get update |
| 12:48.57 | nvz | dka-: and aptitude still wont install after successful update? |
| 12:49.05 | dka- | yes |
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| 12:49.26 | dka- | https://termbin.com/1b5v |
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| 12:49.37 | nvz | dka-: if thats the output of your update.. you have no official mirror there |
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| 12:49.45 | nvz | dka-: you have only security and volitile |
| 12:49.50 | nvz | you have no main mirror |
| 12:49.52 | ksk | !archive |
| 12:49.52 | dpkg | An archive is a collection of files. 'tar', 'ar', 'cpio' are all archiving tools. This is *not* the same as compression, which is a separate operation. Debian Archives is the repository for old Debian releases, see http://www.debian.org/distrib/archive . For the package archive, ask me about <snapshot>. For old Debian <ISO> files ask me about <cd archive> |
| 12:50.00 | ksk | thats because "Jessie" was moved into archive, no? |
| 12:50.05 | ksk | !jessie archive |
| 12:50.08 | ksk | mhhm |
| 12:50.09 | tohoyn | I installed debian stable from the firmware version. When the system boots it opens a command line interface to grub. how do I boot the system? |
| 12:50.16 | nvz | ksk: irrelevant to the fact they have no actual mirror |
| 12:50.31 | nvz | ksk: they only have updates showing there no actual package mirror |
| 12:50.38 | ksk | mhmkay.. |
| 12:50.46 | dka- | got it thanks, it's fixed now |
| 12:50.57 | nvz | there are 3 repos required, a main one, and two for different kinds of updates |
| 12:51.08 | ksk | tohoyn: that is grub telling you "I was started by bios, but could not find kernel/devices/etc accoring to my config" -- not really a quick fix for that |
| 12:51.12 | nvz | they are missing the regular mirror |
| 12:51.13 | ksk | !grub-repair |
| 12:51.36 | ksk | !fixmbr |
| 12:51.37 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 12:51.44 | ksk | tohoyn: ^ |
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| 12:52.06 | ksk | (it might be there is an underlying problem which prevented grub from being correctly configured during install, hard to tell..) |
| 12:52.08 | tohoyn | ksk: has it something to do with the efi settings in the installation? |
| 12:52.49 | ksk | That might be related, yes. I dont really know anything about UEFI though, kind of just worked for me on my latest machine. |
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| 12:54.06 | dka- | This is the result of the two command to get all the backports package installed, run on the 3 hosts, the last one is having a weird format compare to the 2 first, any clue why? => http://paste.debian.net/1165269/ |
| 12:54.33 | dka- | Are you absolutely SURE that I need to remove DOCKER to perform the upgrade :'[ ? |
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| 12:55.21 | nvz | dka-: nothing looks all that odd to me |
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| 12:55.33 | dka- | yes that's what I am just seeing, it look quite clean |
| 12:55.48 | nvz | dka-: removing docker wouldn't remove your docker containers I wouldnt think |
| 12:55.58 | nvz | dka-: and you'd put it back after you complete your upgrade path |
| 12:56.30 | nvz | thing is anything from backports or such you probably wont need anymore cause the buster version will be newer and you can just install the official package when complete |
| 12:56.32 | dka- | so I am think I am safe to remove nodejs, openjdk-8, ca-certificates-java, but docker-ce, linux-base and linux-image-3.16.0.4 , how can I do that without downtime? |
| 12:56.58 | dka- | removing docker would need to remove docker service and no container will be able to run |
| 12:57.27 | dka- | linux-base (4.5) [Debian: 4.5~deb8u1 3.5] and linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64 (3.16.43-2+deb8u5), why are these installed and is it safe to remove them now? |
| 12:57.40 | dka- | That look like the core |
| 12:57.43 | ksk | dka-: how about getting a consultant? Kind of crazy you seem to be in charge of a production grade system and dont know ansers to these questions :X |
| 12:58.04 | dka- | Well, I am learning. That's how you learn isn't it? |
| 12:58.05 | ksk | dka-: there is "aptitude why $pkg" which tells you why something was installed |
| 12:58.27 | nvz | dka-: well you dont have /many/ things it seems.. and the ones most likely to cause problems from what you shown are things like nodejs which has MANY dependencies and the java crap.. anything you have thats not official has potential to screw up an upgrade, it doesn't necessarily mean it /will/ |
| 12:58.29 | ksk | I suppose it will just not give you anything meaningful on kernel packages. |
| 12:58.41 | ksk | if that are not kernels currently running, you can remove their packages. |
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| 12:59.13 | nvz | dka-: as for the kernel as long as you have something like a linux-image-amd64 metapackage it should result in you getting a new kernel on each dist-upgrade without issue |
| 12:59.28 | ksk | The sane thing to do, imho: Rent three other machines, install software. migrate, upgrade. Kill old machines afterwards. |
| 12:59.46 | nvz | dka-: and there is going to be /some/ downtime regardless as services will be restarted during the process, and you're going to need to make two upgrades to get to buster.. |
| 12:59.47 | ksk | even more so, should you desire to keep the downtimes minimal. Also: Testing, Desaster-recovery? |
| 13:00.16 | ksk | you should also totally reboot after you did a dist-upgrade (or even updated libs, or the kernel) |
| 13:00.46 | nvz | dka-: with a reasonable connection and reasonably fast machine, the upgrades aren't going to take too long.. the main thing that will drag it out is hitting snags cause you got some kinda crap in there that doesnt upgrade cleanly |
| 13:01.10 | dka- | the host with the linux-image runs on 4.11, but dpkg -l | grep linux-image show only 3.16, so they must be in use right? https://termbin.com/f3m45 |
| 13:01.42 | ksk | maybe something in between, that your superiors could manage to find money for: Clone one machine of that cluster, and upgrade it standalone. This way you will notice any upcoming problems before actually upgrading the production cluster. |
| 13:01.43 | dka- | I am thinking to upgrade HOST one by one, so the two other master can keep the state, I believe it will work because the system that run mesos are in docker and will work together |
| 13:02.34 | nvz | dka-: sounds like a good idea.. and thats what I meant by plotting a course.. |
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| 13:02.50 | nvz | you need to /think/ before you /act/ on these things :D |
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| 13:03.30 | ksk | dka-: what do you do though, if that single machine does not upgrade? How do you test inter-machine communication without also updating the other two? Questions after questions :P |
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| 13:04.12 | nvz | ,v openjdk-8-jdk |
| 13:04.13 | judd | Package: openjdk-8-jdk on amd64 -- stretch-proposed-updates: 8u242-b08-1~deb9u1; stretch: 8u252-b09-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 8u252-b09-1~deb9u1; sid: 8u265-b01-1 |
| 13:04.24 | dka- | what do you do though, if that single machine does not upgrade? => well, if it can run docker after failing the update, then that's ok. |
| 13:04.50 | dka- | How do you test inter-machine communication without also updating the other two? => well, the panteras container that run the platform is a fixed ubuntu version image, so it will still be the same system in docker and they should connect together |
| 13:05.02 | nvz | dka-: buster has openjdk11, not openjdk8, do you know what your needs are for openjdk8 on that one machine? |
| 13:05.12 | dka- | I think I don't need openjdk |
| 13:05.17 | dka- | I don't know why it's there at the first place |
| 13:05.25 | nvz | check aptitude why to be sure |
| 13:05.27 | dka- | I checked and apparently it's visualvm that require it, i dont know why it's there |
| 13:06.30 | nvz | dka-: and while I'm not experienced with docker, I think your assessment of that situation is fairly accurate that its the content that matters |
| 13:06.41 | nvz | your containers are compatible now, and won't change |
| 13:07.04 | nvz | ,v docker-ce |
| 13:07.05 | judd | No package named 'docker-ce' was found in amd64. |
| 13:07.13 | nvz | o.O |
| 13:07.13 | ksk | (thats an upstream package) |
| 13:07.17 | nvz | ok |
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| 13:07.32 | ksk | which is fine, dont even try using the debian packages ones :) |
| 13:07.33 | nvz | as long as you disable the source it probably shouldnt snag upgrade |
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| 13:07.47 | nvz | I'd just re-enable the source and seperately upgrade that each step |
| 13:07.49 | dka- | I have disabled the source |
| 13:08.00 | dka- | for docker. But you said I had to remove it still |
| 13:08.07 | nvz | ie on the jessie->stretch and stretch->buster |
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| 13:08.24 | ksk | !jessie->stretch |
| 13:08.25 | nvz | disable the source during the dist-upgrade then upgrade it seperately afterward |
| 13:08.27 | dka- | At what step of the upgrade do i /jessis/buster/ in sources ? |
| 13:08.39 | nvz | dka-: you dont |
| 13:08.43 | dka- | ok |
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| 13:08.57 | nvz | dka-: you do jessie->stretch then stretch->buster |
| 13:09.02 | nvz | thats the way its been tested to work |
| 13:09.06 | dka- | Got it, at what step? |
| 13:09.28 | nvz | its the first step.. of the actual upgrade after the "taking stock" we're doing now |
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| 13:09.51 | ksk | !tell dka- about jessie->stretch |
| 13:10.12 | nvz | thats probably not necessary we're already going over the release notes in real time now |
| 13:10.16 | ksk | (kind of an abstract of what nvz already told you) |
| 13:10.20 | nvz | heh |
| 13:10.39 | nvz | but we've only covered 4.2 |
| 13:10.58 | nvz | need to move on through 4.2.1, 4.2.2, 4.2.3... etc |
| 13:11.27 | nvz | sounds like they already did 4.2.5 |
| 13:11.37 | nvz | but the others are important to avoid snags |
| 13:11.49 | dka- | what version are you referring of? |
| 13:11.53 | nvz | before moving on to 4.3 which is actually changing the sources |
| 13:12.02 | nvz | these aren't versions, they're steps in the release notes |
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| 13:12.14 | nvz | https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#system-status |
| 13:12.32 | nvz | after you do all this, you need to move on to the buster release notes and do it all again |
| 13:12.48 | nvz | but first you need to get to stretch |
| 13:13.01 | dka- | this is the new list of package after removing nodejs: http://paste.debian.net/1165273/ |
| 13:13.06 | nvz | and to avoid issues in doing so, you need to cover the steps in 4.2* |
| 13:13.21 | dka- | I wonder for the bhs host, if I can just apt-get remove linux-base linux-image-3.16.0.4-amd64, how can I tell if it's safe ? |
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| 13:13.42 | nvz | dka-: what does uname -r say on that machine? |
| 13:13.55 | dka- | Linux master-bhs-01 4.11.0-xxxx-std-ipv6-64 #1 SMP Mon May 8 14:47:33 CEST 2017 x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 13:14.17 | nvz | dka-: `if you're running 4.11 then you don't need a 3.16 I would say |
| 13:14.41 | dka- | yeah, but is linux-base suffisient ? https://termbin.com/p5dm |
| 13:14.52 | nvz | dka-: sounds to me like that kernel is however a custom kernel |
| 13:14.56 | ksk | thats not a debian linux kernel nomenclature, but - so it seems you are running a third party kernel |
| 13:15.05 | ksk | Is the box even real hardware, or a VM itself? :o |
| 13:15.10 | dka- | it's real hardware |
| 13:15.17 | sigint | I bet you run a machine from OVH with a custom kernel |
| 13:15.25 | nvz | ,v linux-base |
| 13:15.26 | judd | Package: linux-base on amd64 -- jessie: 3.5; jessie-security: 4.5~deb8u1; stretch: 4.5; bullseye: 4.6; buster: 4.6; sid: 4.6 |
| 13:15.36 | dka- | sigint, yes they are 3 dedicated servers from OVH |
| 13:15.45 | dka- | does it matter? |
| 13:16.04 | sigint | kind of, your kernels don't come from debian |
| 13:16.12 | nvz | your linux-base is at current stretch version from jessie-security |
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| 13:17.09 | dka- | ok but that's super weird, why 1 host does have this linux-base and why the over 2 don't even have a package with linux in it? => https://termbin.com/ol8n https://termbin.com/b1xri\ |
| 13:17.15 | dka- | Sorry, https://termbin.com/b1xri |
| 13:17.25 | ksk | dka-: ask the one who built your image (OVH) |
| 13:17.35 | dka- | The two are the output of dpkg -l | grep linux on the two host that doesn't have a bp linux kernel installed |
| 13:17.48 | ksk | most likelely: They provide a kernel packages, which has "provides: kernel" in it, but dont actually are named "*image*" |
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| 13:18.03 | nvz | dka-: that is my question, why apt-forktracer showed this.. it may be due to pinning.. which you'd know if you moved on to the next steps in teh release notes |
| 13:18.24 | nvz | because it doesnt appear to be an unofficial package yet apt-forktracer tagged it for a reason |
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| 13:20.49 | dka- | no host have pinned |
| 13:21.04 | dka- | cat: /etc/apt/preferences: No such file or directory and cat: /etc/apt/preferences.d/*: No such file or directory |
| 13:21.21 | nvz | dka-: you can figure out which package provided that kernel by locating a file from the kernel like /boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-5-amd64 or such and doing dpkg -S on that file |
| 13:21.39 | nvz | it will tell you which package it belongs to |
| 13:22.16 | dka- | i have in /boot bzImage-4.11.0-xxxx-std-ipv6-64 bzImage-3.14.32-xxxx-grs-ipv6-64 , System.map-3.14.32-xxxx-grs-ipv6-64 and System.map-4.11.0-xxxx-std-ipv6-64 + grub folder |
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| 13:22.19 | sigint | as far as I remember, kernels from OVH are not installed via deb files. They are downloaded and put in /boot directly |
| 13:22.51 | JPT | Depending on your server, ovh kernels may also be fired up through PXE boot |
| 13:23.07 | nvz | dka-: just do dpkg -S /boot/System.map-3.14.32-xxxx-grs-ipv6-64; dpkg -S /boot/System.map-4.11.0-xxxx-std-ipv6-64 |
| 13:23.18 | nvz | dka-: should tell you the package names for those files |
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| 13:23.55 | dka- | it says dpkg-query: no path found matching pattern /boot/System.map-4.11.0-xxxx-std-ipv6-64 |
| 13:24.02 | dka- | for all of them, despite the path is correct |
| 13:24.15 | nvz | dka-: then they may not be debian packages they may have been manually installed |
| 13:24.32 | nvz | dka-: for upgrade purposes you need only a metapackage like linux-image-amd64 |
| 13:24.55 | nvz | dka-: however I'd probably want to figure out why this one system has a custom kernel in the first place if it were me |
| 13:25.12 | nvz | could be it has patches for a specific purpose |
| 13:25.27 | nvz | or just some dipstick didn't know what they were doing :P |
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| 13:26.46 | nvz | the one thing I think the rest of you commenting on this need to take stock of, is that apparently these are 3 dedicated servers (baremetal I presume) from the same provider and only one of the 3 has this custom kernel configuration |
| 13:27.25 | nvz | dka-: as for you, I'd think about who else may use/maintain these machines and why they did this on this one machine |
| 13:27.28 | ksk | Sounds like you should ask them that. |
| 13:27.30 | dka- | but the 2 that doesn't use the custom kernel have no kernel |
| 13:27.38 | dka- | I mean no linux-image deb installed |
| 13:27.58 | nvz | dka-: they are all using these same kinda kernels? |
| 13:28.06 | nvz | what is the uname -r across the 3? |
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| 13:28.43 | dka- | All use 4.11.0-xxxx-std-ipv6-64 |
| 13:29.03 | sigint | Note that running a kernel built by OVH probably just means that the person who installed theses servers went through the installation wizzard without changing the default value. |
| 13:29.06 | ksk | that is a customkernel, and all three of them are using it. |
| 13:29.41 | nvz | dka-: if these are all using custom kernels from the provider, I'd check with them and ask them why and what this may mean for upgrades before proceeding, however that kernel should work for stretch and buster I'd imagine as stretch uses a 4.9.0 and buster a 4.19 iirc |
| 13:29.47 | sigint | If the hardware is old enough, running a stock debian kernel is probably better |
| 13:30.12 | nvz | dka-: I'd ask them about just using a stock debian kernel if that would cause any problems |
| 13:30.28 | dka- | what is a stock debian kernel? |
| 13:30.36 | dka- | It's the ovh a custom kernel? |
| 13:30.44 | nvz | the actual linux-image-* packages from Debian |
| 13:30.56 | nvz | that would be pulled in my linux-image-amd64 metapackage |
| 13:31.19 | nvz | which is what you'd normally want for upgrades so the kernel upgrades with the rest of the system |
| 13:32.02 | nvz | the only real problems I forsee with a custom kernel dpkg isn't aware of is if it caused problems with systemd or something.. but that kernel seems new enough to work with stretch/buster if for some reason its required for their hardware |
| 13:32.12 | nvz | or network configuration |
| 13:36.37 | dka- | Ok, I just opened the ticket at OVH, they have no phone standard for dedicated anymore |
| 13:36.53 | dka- | Meanwhile, can I remove the linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64 safely? |
| 13:37.05 | dka- | on the host that is having it for I don't know why |
| 13:37.06 | nvz | dka-: doesnt seem like you're actually using it, so yeah.. |
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| 13:37.37 | dka- | should i reboot after removing it? |
| 13:37.40 | nvz | dka-: for normal upgrades you'd want a metapackage like linux-image-amd64 to ensure the latest kernel is installed |
| 13:37.47 | nvz | dka-: you're not acutally running it, so no need |
| 13:37.47 | dka- | can I remove it with dpkg -r ? |
| 13:38.09 | ksk | use apt to interact with packages, dont use dpkg directly. |
| 13:38.12 | nvz | dka-: would be easier probably with apt.. for dpkg you need the actual package |
| 13:38.13 | dka- | dpkg -r linux-image-amd64; dpkg -r linux-image-amd64; dpkg -P linux-image-amd64; dpkg -P linux-image-amd64 |
| 13:38.14 | dpkg | removes linux-image-amd64; dpkg -r linux-image-amd64; dpkg -P linux-image-amd64; dpkg -P linux-image-amd64 along with a pound of flesh from dka-'s body, then staples dka- back up with a staple gun. |
| 13:38.27 | alex11 | lol |
| 13:38.36 | nvz | dpkg: shaddup |
| 13:38.36 | dpkg | No, I won't, you shaddup, you |
| 13:39.05 | dka- | apt remove linux-image-amd64 linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64 |
| 13:39.05 | dka- | ? |
| 13:39.17 | dka- | that's a scary cmd xD |
| 13:40.21 | nvz | there is no reason to /remove/ linux-image-amd64 |
| 13:40.41 | nvz | thats what you /want/ if you wanna upgrade and have debian stock kernels |
| 13:41.01 | nvz | its just an empty metapackage that pulls in the current debian amd64 kernel |
| 13:41.05 | dka- | sounds ok ? https://termbin.com/1yt2 |
| 13:41.39 | dka- | it does not, remove wants to install xD |
| 13:41.58 | nvz | I'd wait and hear from either OVH or someone who has used their services and knows |
| 13:42.16 | nvz | because installing a new kernel package would change your bootloader |
| 13:42.28 | nvz | and you are currently running a newer custom kernel seemingly manually installed |
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| 13:42.47 | nvz | I have nfc what their bootloader or such setup is at OVH |
| 13:42.55 | ksk | dka-: Seems then the OVH kernel is "running" but debian does not know if it. Since you remove the only kernel it know, it wants to install another one, so you do not end up without a kernel. |
| 13:43.07 | sigint | Former OVH employee here, as I said it is very unlikely that the custom kernel is actually needed. It is just the default because OVH sometimes sells exotic hardware. |
| 13:43.11 | ksk | really out of scope for #debian though, as we do not know how/why OVH set it up this way |
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| 13:43.21 | dka- | I think I upgraded it manually and the 3 host at a time i needed a newer kernel for docker volumes filesystem driver overlay2 |
| 13:43.23 | nvz | removing the metapackage would stop another kernel from being installed |
| 13:43.34 | sigint | The first thing many customers do is installing a stock kernel right after installing the server. |
| 13:43.47 | sigint | And it is actually quite easy: https://askubuntu.com/a/945348 |
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| 13:43.58 | dka- | sigint, ok, but will that work on the old jessie? |
| 13:44.14 | nvz | sigint: yes well these are 3 servers this user has in production use for some time it seems, so they dont wanna wind up in a FUBAR/SNAFU situation |
| 13:44.44 | sigint | nvz, understood but upgrading jessie to buster is a wild ride anyway |
| 13:44.57 | nvz | sigint: do you think we should maybe check some sort of kernel messages, lspci or such to see if they have such "exotic hardware" ? :P |
| 13:45.24 | sigint | even without considering kernels, his servers are likely to need to be started in rescue at some point to fix something |
| 13:45.46 | dka- | sigint, I will gladly get more information on that last comment |
| 13:45.59 | sigint | dka-, about rescue? |
| 13:46.04 | nvz | I've done jessie->buster remotely on my fathers machine |
| 13:46.14 | dka- | why upgrading debian will require a rescue step? |
| 13:46.25 | nvz | if you do it as I been cautioning, as is described int he release notes its doable |
| 13:46.41 | nvz | you just gotta be sure not to hit snags with 3rd party crap |
| 13:47.13 | dka- | in the link you shared from debian, they say to make sure we are using the latest upgrade for all deps before performing the upgrade |
| 13:47.55 | dka- | So the main question is, can I run `apt remove linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64` on the host that has it? I am pretty sure jdk can be removed, so then docker, I can remove it and reinstall it after the upgrade I believe |
| 13:47.58 | nvz | my father had crossover and MS Office on a desktop among other things and I did the jessie->stretch stretch->buster remotely without any major issues |
| 13:48.12 | sigint | dka-, an upgrade from two versions ago can go wrong. More so on 3 different machines running a custom kernel and custom software. |
| 13:48.20 | dka- | So it's pretty safe, I didnd't understood all the mess with the OVH kernel, but you seemed to say that it is compatible with the latest debian already |
| 13:48.35 | sigint | So just be ready to boot your server in rescue IF something goes wrong to fix a thing or two. That's it |
| 13:48.52 | dka- | sigint, well, can jessie, today, install an original kernel ? |
| 13:48.57 | nvz | sigint: you can do the rescue stuff remotely via web on your own? |
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| 13:49.27 | dka- | nvz yes I think, and there's a ssh mode |
| 13:49.43 | sigint | nvz, yes you go to the admin panel and reboot your server from the rescue distro |
| 13:49.47 | nvz | dka-: ah, well my main concern would be that you'd have to wait on contacting staff there |
| 13:49.57 | dka- | I don't know if you have looked at http://paste.debian.net/1165273/ sigint but the system seems quite clean, why the upgrade would go wrong? |
| 13:50.17 | nvz | yeah it looks like a fairly straighforward upgrade path to me |
| 13:50.20 | dka- | Ok we don't know, but I think it is, as nvz said, a common step for all those debian jessie host that needs to upgrade, it should not fail unless ovh hw issue ? |
| 13:50.24 | nvz | you dont have a lot of weirdness there |
| 13:51.09 | nvz | my only conern was noting that the openjdk8 isnt available in buster as we delt with this issue many times in support channels people complaining they coulndt use openjdk11 |
| 13:51.18 | sigint | dka-, I'm not saying it will go wrong. But your plan should not be hopping that it goes right, you need to prepare for plan B. |
| 13:51.20 | nvz | but thats only on one of the 3 systems |
| 13:51.34 | dka- | sigint, got it |
| 13:51.49 | dka- | nvz I think I don't need jdk, I don't know why it's there, probably a mistake |
| 13:52.05 | dka- | all the running services are within docker and jre should be installed in those docker systems not the guest system |
| 13:52.09 | dka- | so I am safe to delete it |
| 13:52.27 | dka- | The one that I am not safe about, is the linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64 |
| 13:52.29 | nvz | so if we got the idea of whats unofficial, checked pinning, disabled 3rd parts sources.. sounds like your close to ready for jessie->stretch |
| 13:52.40 | dka- | Can you please confirm that the apt output for removing this is not wrong? |
| 13:52.42 | nvz | dka-: you need to decide if you're gonna go stock or not for that |
| 13:52.54 | dka- | you mean stock kernel? |
| 13:53.00 | nvz | dka-: if you're gonna go stock you just need linux-image-amd64 on all machines |
| 13:53.01 | dka- | Yeah I will wait for OVH answer first. |
| 13:53.12 | nvz | and I'd kinda recommend for smoothest upgrade you do that |
| 13:53.16 | dka- | Yeah, so apt install linux-image-amd64, reboot, check it's stock, then upgrade? |
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| 13:53.43 | nvz | dka-: yeah if you can install linux-image-amd64 and successfully reboot now, then we know you can get by with a stock kernel |
| 13:54.12 | nvz | dka-: but you /could/ probably also get by with whats already running.. it's just not Debian way(tm) |
| 13:54.20 | dka- | I won't do it before the OVH ticket answer, since we don't know if they are still required. |
| 13:54.23 | dka- | understood |
| 13:54.55 | dka- | can you tell me if `apt remove linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64` output seems acceptable to remove it? http://paste.debian.net/1165284/ |
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| 13:55.12 | nvz | dka-: only concern with stale kernels laying around you're not using is if you have limited space on /boot or such |
| 13:55.46 | dka- | I can't confirm that command myself, since it's written: The following extra packages will be installed: linux-image-3.16.0-11-amd64 linux-image-amd64 AND The following NEW packages will be installed: linux-image-3.16.0-11-amd64 so it does not look like a deletion to me |
| 13:55.59 | nvz | dka-: simply removing it, if its not the running kernel is fine, but removing it without also removing the metapackage, resulting in it installing another kernel would result in changes to the bootloader |
| 13:56.19 | dka- | ok, so I should wait for this one also for OVH answer regarding their kernel |
| 13:56.42 | dka- | All make sens, nvz sigint thanks for these precious information |
| 13:56.45 | nvz | dka-: so if you're not willing to just install the metapackage and go stock, I'd wait to do anything with the kernel or just remove the metapackage also for now |
| 13:57.18 | nvz | if you can confirm either from OVH or by testing it, that stock works, I'd just say install the metapackage on all of em and move on with upgrade |
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| 13:58.17 | nvz | dka-: one other consideration is we started down all this talking about wiregaurd which has both kernel and userland components.. so it may be the case that the custom kernels on there don't even have wiregaurd or that you don't have headers to build wiregaurd stuff |
| 13:58.26 | nvz | dka-: so you'd need a stock kernel anyhow for that |
| 13:59.06 | sigint | The anwser from the support will most likely tell you that the hardware is known to work with the custom kernel and that you're on your own with distro kernels. |
| 13:59.51 | nvz | sigint: do they provide headers or such to build stuff for their kernels? |
| 14:00.21 | sigint | Yes, I think so |
| 14:00.44 | dka- | Do you know sigint where can I find those? |
| 14:00.52 | nvz | but not being debian packaged they're not gonna be dkms and such |
| 14:00.56 | sigint | There is no magic sauce in these kernels, it's just that the're built with support for a super wide range of hardware. |
| 14:01.14 | nvz | so it'd create problems with debian kernel related stuff regardless |
| 14:01.24 | nvz | because it'd lack dkms and such |
| 14:01.43 | nvz | the system is entirely unaware of it |
| 14:01.51 | sigint | I think that everything is there: https://last-public-ovh-kernel.snap.mirrors.ovh.net/builds/ |
| 14:01.53 | dka- | yeah, that's super weird ^^ |
| 14:01.58 | dka- | ty |
| 14:02.22 | nvz | dka-: I'd consider trying a stock kernel and the implications of that |
| 14:02.25 | dka- | that's only 4.19 |
| 14:02.44 | nvz | if you have rescue console and can just as easily boot the old custom kernel.. I dont see what it'd hurt to test |
| 14:03.51 | nvz | though on jessie, the stock kernel is gonna be older than your running kernel |
| 14:04.08 | nvz | stretch has 4.9 and buster has 4.19 |
| 14:04.15 | nvz | you are currently running 4.11 |
| 14:04.22 | s_ | i am running stretch, do I use stretch-backports to bring in from Deb10 |
| 14:04.26 | nvz | jessie is 3.16 iirc |
| 14:04.40 | nvz | s_: no, what are you trying to do? |
| 14:04.53 | nvz | s_: you do not "bring in from Deb10" |
| 14:04.57 | s_ | nvz: im trying to bring in a backport from Debian 10 |
| 14:05.08 | nvz | s_: can you be more specific? |
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| 14:05.30 | s_ | I am looking for a newer python3 |
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| 14:05.37 | nvz | ,v python3 |
| 14:05.38 | judd | Package: python3 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.4.2-2; stretch: 3.5.3-1; buster: 3.7.3-1; bullseye: 3.8.2-3; sid: 3.8.2-3; experimental: 3.8.5-1 |
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| 14:05.54 | nvz | there aren't backports for python3 it seems |
| 14:06.00 | b1ack0p | hi there |
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| 14:06.04 | alex11 | newer python versions isn't something you install from a repository, it messes up the rest of the system |
| 14:06.06 | b1ack0p | how can i check distro version? |
| 14:06.13 | alex11 | there are tools to manage different python versions |
| 14:06.26 | nvz | b1ack0p: for debian? cat /etc/debian_version is one way |
| 14:06.39 | b1ack0p | yep |
| 14:06.54 | s_ | alex11: yeah im aware of the down sides... unfortunately running into build errors on some of the related python pips |
| 14:07.06 | b1ack0p | cool it shows 10.6 |
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| 14:07.11 | b1ack0p | thanks nvz dude |
| 14:07.13 | nvz | s_: are you not willing/able to upgrade to buster? |
| 14:07.15 | s_ | apparently a numpy/scipy build on armhf is not that easy |
| 14:07.23 | s_ | not able unfortunately |
| 14:07.35 | nvz | s_: you could debootstrap a newer release and use schroot perhaps for your needs |
| 14:07.48 | s_ | not nearly enough space |
| 14:07.51 | s_ | interesting idea though |
| 14:07.58 | nvz | s_: dont have 500MB or so? |
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| 14:08.36 | s_ | not really. i mean i was able to strip out enough to clear ~600MB to account for build space |
| 14:08.49 | s_ | but really don't want to leave it with only 100MB space |
| 14:09.15 | nvz | s_: sounds like you got bigger problems than a python version if you can't upgrade and are below 1G freespace |
| 14:09.39 | s_ | i wouldn't say i have problems. perhaps operating in a constrained environment, yes |
| 14:09.48 | nvz | s_: is this your machine or some kinda rented server? |
| 14:10.34 | s_ | its an SBC with an 8GB emmc and armhf achitecture |
| 14:10.52 | s_ | well not just 1 of them. heh |
| 14:11.02 | nvz | ah.. and you can't upgrade cause you are reliant on some kinda kernel? |
| 14:11.33 | s_ | upgrading would require touching it which is expensive at this juncture |
| 14:11.47 | nvz | s_: well there is another option, but still the space contraint is a concern |
| 14:12.31 | nvz | s_: you could probably save additional space by removing all the python3 crap you have now as your stretch system likely isnt reliant on python3 anyhow, most the system stuff is probably reliant on python2 |
| 14:13.17 | nvz | s_: then perhaps try something like https://github.com/pyenv/pyenv |
| 14:13.30 | nvz | s_: to get you a newer python3 |
| 14:13.49 | nvz | s_: since it sounds like you're gonna use pip3 for your python module needs anyhow |
| 14:14.06 | s_ | nvz: yep that is the road i've been on |
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| 14:14.34 | s_ | nvz: hitting some rough patches with pandas and scipy builds. |
| 14:14.50 | nvz | s_: that is probably my best recommendation for your needs and constraints.. remove python3* from apt, use pyenv to get a new python3.. use pip to install what you need for python3 |
| 14:15.12 | nvz | removing the python3* stuff will free up more space for you to work |
| 14:15.13 | s_ | which are initiated by pip and since there are no wheels, requires toolchain for gcc and fortran, and a bunch of numerical libs, and cython, and still having issues |
| 14:15.18 | s_ | yep I did that |
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| 14:15.34 | s_ | nvz: yeah, agree that's where im at now |
| 14:15.52 | s_ | just trying to see if there is any other option leveraging debian packages... but looks like no |
| 14:16.04 | nvz | s_: na, doesn't seem so for this case |
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| 14:39.33 | teo7 | Hi, i just installed the proprietary nvidia drivers for my 950m, but if i go to open nvidia-settings, it won't open. here's what appears in the terminal: |
| 14:39.47 | teo7 | $ nvidia-settings |
| 14:39.47 | teo7 | ERROR: NVIDIA driver is not loaded |
| 14:39.48 | teo7 | ERROR: Unable to load info from any available system |
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| 14:41.15 | alex11 | did you reboot after installing them? |
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| 14:45.13 | tohoyn | I'm unable to access the console when I boot from the live cd |
| 14:45.22 | tohoyn | alt-f2 does not work |
| 14:45.31 | greycat | if you're in X, it's Ctrl-Alt-F2 |
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| 14:50.16 | s_ | if I am stretch do I use buster-backports ? |
| 14:50.20 | s_ | confused by the naming |
| 14:50.26 | greycat | No. You use stretch-backports. |
| 14:50.53 | fireba11 | so it's actually pretty straight forwared -D |
| 14:51.30 | netcrash | Hello, a good way to get recent packages in debian to have the system more updated like ubuntu is to use the testing version? (for desktop) |
| 14:51.53 | greycat | *sigh* |
| 14:51.57 | dotcom | apt update/ upgrade? |
| 14:52.15 | greycat | If you want ubuntu, just run ubuntu. We choose Debian *because* it is stable, meaning unchanging, well-tested, robust, mature. |
| 14:52.26 | netcrash | got it |
| 14:52.39 | alex11 | you can often get newer versions of packages via other means |
| 14:52.45 | alex11 | without upgrading the whole system |
| 14:52.48 | netcrash | ubuntu comes with a lot of packages that I will have to uninstall like snap |
| 14:52.53 | alex11 | meanwhile debian will give you a base yo build on |
| 14:52.58 | alex11 | s/yo/to |
| 14:53.08 | netcrash | alex11: ok |
| 14:53.18 | alex11 | can you even uninstall snaps in ubuntu? AFAIK that's a huge pain in the ass because it forces it down your throat |
| 14:53.40 | greycat | if there's a specific newer version that you actually need, for an actual *reason* (not just "to have higher numbers"), then you can use a backported package, or upstream |
| 14:54.02 | alex11 | yes, often old software does 99% of what you need |
| 14:54.07 | netcrash | next time you update + upgrade it comes back but I manage to not use it in the system |
| 14:54.10 | alex11 | this gets better over time as the ecosystem gets more mature |
| 14:54.26 | netcrash | ok |
| 14:54.46 | netcrash | makes a point |
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| 15:04.26 | s_ | 99% of what you need doesn't work though. 99% of what you want.. can work with that |
| 15:04.52 | s_ | not meant to be a general complaint |
| 15:04.58 | alex11 | backports takes care of a lot of common issues people have |
| 15:05.24 | s_ | i wonder if python3-pandas is backported to deb 9 |
| 15:05.34 | s_ | on armhf |
| 15:05.56 | dvs | ,v python3-pandas |
| 15:05.57 | judd | Package: python3-pandas on amd64 -- jessie: 0.14.1-2; stretch: 0.19.2-5.1; buster: 0.23.3+dfsg-3; bullseye: 1.0.5+dfsg-3; sid: 1.0.5+dfsg-3; experimental: 1.1.1+dfsg-3 |
| 15:06.06 | greycat | "no" |
| 15:06.08 | alex11 | i think stretch is probably LTS by now so it's less likely to see backports |
| 15:06.34 | greycat | you can also build your own backport packages |
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| 15:07.06 | s_ | greycat: ive been trying. specifically deb9 appears to have python3-pandas but not python3-pandas-lib |
| 15:07.27 | s_ | which is a dependency.. that confuses me--not sure how that happened |
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| 15:08.02 | greycat | judd depends python3-pandas --release buster |
| 15:08.03 | judd | Package python3-pandas in buster/amd64 -- depends: python3-dateutil, python3-numpy (>= 1:1.7~), python3-tz, python3:any (>= 3.2~), python3-pandas-lib (>= 0.23.3+dfsg-3), python3-pkg-resources, python3-six. |
| 15:08.22 | greycat | ,checkbackport python3-pandas-lib --fromrelease buster --torelease stretch |
| 15:08.48 | judd | Backporting package python3-pandas-lib in busterâstretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends-Indep: python3-xarray <!nodoc>. |
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| 15:09.03 | dvs | s_: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/python3-pandas-lib |
| 15:09.27 | greycat | Sometimes backporting is hard or nigh impossible, and I'm not a python guy so I can't offer any advice on that one. |
| 15:10.28 | s_ | dvs: yeah no armhf |
| 15:10.39 | s_ | dvs: but python3-pandas is there |
| 15:11.13 | greycat | maybe just bypassing the debian packaging and using pip...? |
| 15:11.24 | greycat | better ask a python person, though |
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| 15:12.04 | s_ | greycat: yeah im down a whole path of trying to execute a build in various ways |
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| 15:12.25 | s_ | greycat: but i am surprised that python3-pandas is there but a required dependency is not |
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| 15:12.58 | b1ack0p | after updating to 10.6 i realized grub menu colors changed, is it new for new version? |
| 15:13.01 | b1ack0p | or something corrupted? |
| 15:13.51 | b1ack0p | i updated 32bit to 10.6 to another machine and grub colors didnt changed but on other machine which runs 64bit grub colors changed |
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| 15:15.20 | sigint | s_, if your plateform can run containers this is often the sane way to run Python with latest packages |
| 15:16.02 | s_ | heh. yep. i might have to try that, but i don't have a ton of space.. and i shudder to think how old docker is for this thing |
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| 15:16.30 | s_ | above someone suggested debootstrap |
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| 15:25.05 | b1ack0p | did someone noticed any change after updating to 10.6 ? |
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| 15:26.07 | teo7 | alex11: thanks, now it works. But the screen sporadically does graphical glitches. These consist of flickering, until I move the mouse abruptly. I tried to migrate from xorg to wayland, but the latter is blocked by default when installing proprietary drivers. So what can I do? |
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| 15:56.05 | khelair | is there any possible way that somebody could help me find a debian package of xf86-input-synaptics? I'm having trouble locating one and I can't get the touchpad on this new notebook working under debian without it :( |
| 15:56.12 | khelair | sorry, my google-fu is not the best |
| 15:56.46 | greycat | xf86 would be *really* old... aren't they all named xorg-* now? |
| 15:57.06 | greycat | ,info xserver-xorg-input-synaptics |
| 15:57.08 | judd | Package xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: Synaptics TouchPad driver for X.Org server. Version: 1.9.1-1; Size: 214.6k; Installed: 324k |
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| 15:57.27 | otyugh | hey there |
| 15:57.28 | khelair | ah that might explain it |
| 15:58.13 | otyugh | I wonder if there is a way to execute a script at shutdown and eventually make shutdown get dalayed on certain condition, display certain stuff... Any idea ? |
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| 15:58.43 | khelair | and buster is 10.6? |
| 15:59.01 | greycat | buster is 10, yes. current point release is 10.6. |
| 15:59.02 | otyugh | (what I have in mind is how a looot of people get stuck on their system because of a stupid reboot while apt is doing installing) |
| 15:59.20 | afidegnum | hi, from possible diagnosis, i believe my ssl is broken somewhere but i don't know how, i have inspected my nginx configuration settings and everythings seems ok, can you please give a hand ? |
| 15:59.24 | afidegnum | https://dpaste.org/Tfsw |
| 15:59.33 | khelair | thank you, greycat & judd |
| 15:59.47 | Haohmaru | aww, judd |
| 16:00.06 | khelair | um, another quick additional question here.. after installing that package, do I need to modify something in xorg.conf or should it just work? |
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| 16:00.21 | khelair | before I restart X, I mean |
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| 16:01.40 | khelair | ah, looks like it just works. thanks, guise |
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| 16:07.41 | splinterz | Does wayland run as root? |
| 16:08.21 | LtL | splinterz: no |
| 16:09.26 | splinterz | LtL: How to switch from xorg to wayland? |
| 16:09.50 | splinterz | As simple as remove and install within synaptic? |
| 16:10.07 | LtL | splinterz: I couldn't say, sorry. |
| 16:12.36 | splinterz | ok, np i will get to it.. |
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| 16:21.50 | alex11 | i don't even think you can with ncidia |
| 16:21.51 | alex11 | nvifdia |
| 16:21.54 | alex11 | ...i can't type |
| 16:21.56 | alex11 | nvidia* |
| 16:22.36 | alex11 | hmm i guess those were two separate questions, i thought that was the nvidia person from earlier |
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| 16:27.47 | dka- | nvz, I asked the mailing ling ovh for dedicated server and one said: "Que ce soit sous Jessie, stretch ou buster les kernels distributeurs debian officiel fonctionnent sans soucis ", which means official debian kernels works without issue |
| 16:28.01 | dka- | I am still waiting for the official OVH answer |
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| 16:34.04 | nvz | yeah, I studied french.. among other languages :P |
| 16:35.26 | nvz | dka-: I suspect what was said earlier may be the result, that they'll just generically disclaim support for distributions rather than give a definitive answer |
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| 17:00.54 | ctcx | If one has web browser with opened login sessions (gmail, yahoo, twitter, forum...), an IRC client, and an opened terminal session as the root user, *all* running at same time, am I becoming at risk of hacks or exploits? |
| 17:02.02 | greycat | you mean, is there a risk that an exploit of your browser session will be able to inject typed characters into the root shell? REALLY unlikely. |
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| 17:03.11 | kline\0 | ctcx: depends if you're running exploitable software |
| 17:03.21 | Poster | Anytime you run code and/or are connected to any type of network you're running some risk, the scenario you describe, if combined with supported/updated software is pretty unlikely but still possible |
| 17:03.21 | kline\0 | see the latest kensington hack for an example of that |
| 17:03.55 | kline\0 | ctcx: https://robertheaton.com/another-rce-in-kensingtonworks/ |
| 17:05.22 | kline\0 | the only "real" risk, ctcx, i see in your position you posted is that there is a root shell open. if you have an exploitable bit of software running under your user, thats one thing. if it can somehow deduce that you have a root shell just lying around for abuse, that does possible mean it can jump to a higher set of privs |
| 17:05.30 | kline\0 | i dont think thats at all likely though |
| 17:05.52 | kline\0 | but generally its not a bad thing to minimise the time that you have escalated privileges in general |
| 17:06.05 | kline\0 | salutes general general |
| 17:06.18 | ctcx | So the scenario I described, is it really a bad practice which should be avoided like pest? |
| 17:06.37 | greycat | I'd say it's extremely common. |
| 17:06.44 | kline\0 | if you routinely leave an open root terminal around, i would hope to avoid that |
| 17:06.57 | greycat | But kline\0 has a good point -- minimize the time you spend with the root shell open. |
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| 17:07.02 | kline\0 | try to do what you can with sudo, which escalates privs on a per-process level |
| 17:07.26 | kline\0 | in fact, the biggest risk of leaving an open root shell is someone hopping in your seat if you wander off to the toilet, honestly |
| 17:07.34 | ctcx | I do minimize the time I spend as root. Only for few tasks such as updating, etc. |
| 17:07.46 | kline\0 | you should mostly be able to do these without a root shell with sudo |
| 17:08.03 | Poster | always utilize least priviledge (a root shell is the opposite of this), keep software updated, exhibit caution with what you interact with |
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| 17:09.07 | ctcx | So if I'm using gmail in webmail and IRC client, must I close them first before using sudo in a shell? |
| 17:09.23 | greycat | that's just being paranoid |
| 17:09.36 | kline\0 | no, sudo allows you to escalate privs on a per-process level |
| 17:09.59 | kline\0 | meaning that you dont have to routinely leave a long-lived (and possibly abusable) root session around |
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| 17:10.28 | kline\0 | the chances of this being remotely abused are slim, but its simply good practice to try to use sudo instead of a root shell where possible |
| 17:10.49 | kline\0 | if nothing else, it will be useful if you absentmindedly use the wrong terminal and make a mistake |
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| 17:11.28 | kline\0 | if you're in a normal shell, your mistake might kick back because you dont have privs to break something, but if you accidentally plug your mistake into a root shell its much more likely to be able to do harm |
| 17:12.07 | n4dir | you mean besides deleting all your data as user? |
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| 17:12.13 | no_gravity | Hello! Over in #mobian we are trying to pin down the error which wakes up the screen every other moment. |
| 17:12.18 | no_gravity | Any ideas at which logs to look? |
| 17:12.39 | greycat | also relevant here: https://xkcd.com/1200/ |
| 17:13.26 | kline\0 | deleting all your data as a user, thats bad |
| 17:13.36 | n4dir | greycat: lol. Yes. |
| 17:13.37 | kline\0 | deleting everything on the drive is worse |
| 17:14.04 | kline\0 | (esp if it starts trying to walk into mounts like backups that are on other users) |
| 17:14.12 | n4dir | why would that be worse? I can easily reinstall in 20 minutes and re-configure in 20. rsync all the backups back takes at minimum 2 hours |
| 17:14.53 | kline\0 | n4dir: being able to bring back up a system in 40 mins puts you fairly outside the bracket of users who routinely leave loaded guns/open root shells hanging about |
| 17:15.01 | kline\0 | your models are different |
| 17:15.11 | n4dir | and i don't recall in those 15 years i ever forgot i was root at the time and did something harmful related to that |
| 17:15.20 | kline\0 | exactly |
| 17:16.12 | ctcx | Then, are there times when I should use sudo, and others when should be su - ? Or better always sudo? |
| 17:16.15 | kline\0 | but deleting everything as root is strictly as-bad-as-or-worse than deleting everything just you own |
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| 17:17.14 | kline\0 | ctcx: where possible, use sudo. understand that there are times where a root shell is appropriate and dont be afraid to use them, just try not to leave them hanging around |
| 17:17.17 | n4dir | hence the strict recommendation for sudo, as far its me, isn't that convincing. |
| 17:17.43 | kline\0 | n4dir: thats ok, im not trying to convince you |
| 17:17.46 | n4dir | "imho" would be a different thing. |
| 17:18.43 | n4dir | but this sure isn't written in stone |
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| 17:19.16 | ctcx | So even with a root shell, I shouldn't need to forcibly first close gmail, IRC, or others, as long as I don't leave the root shell opened? |
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| 17:19.44 | greycat | Are you just REFUSING to use sudo, or do you truly not understand what we are saying? |
| 17:21.00 | hannes_ | i have a Wheezy server in my hands. how feasible is upgrading that to buster? can i go straight from wheezy to buster or would i need to take intermediate steps? |
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| 17:21.19 | greycat | you have to go step by step. wheezy -> jessie -> stretch -> buster |
| 17:21.33 | greycat | some people prefer to just reinstall rather than attempt 4 upgrades |
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| 17:21.38 | greycat | err, 3 |
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| 17:22.45 | kline\0 | greycat: how common is it that there will be breaking changes that would need to be found and remediated between them? im sure even though my experience in upgrading has been generally good, there are probably a package or two that break because upstream changes over such a long period of time that might be best remediated after spending some time on an intermediate version? |
| 17:22.55 | hannes_ | yikes :D thanks |
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| 17:24.02 | ctcx | Ok, got it. Thanks. |
| 17:25.37 | greycat | Depends on what you've got installed. At least one of those upgrades, for example, may require serious rewriting of apache config files. One of them may break network interface names/configuration if you don't prep for it. |
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| 17:26.24 | hannes_ | it's a nginx system, i will just try it and revert to backups to tackle a proper fresh install another day if it fails |
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| 17:33.03 | dob1 | the time column in htop, what is? |
| 17:34.27 | greycat | nginx upgrades have been smooth in my experience, but I don't use a lot of its advanced features; about the only thing you might want to do is changing the ssl_ciphers config to disable the obsolete ones |
| 17:34.38 | greycat | and that only matters if you're using TLS |
| 17:35.12 | sigint | dob1, how long your process was actively running (in the R state) |
| 17:36.38 | dob1 | sigint, ah ok, this explain why some of the times are always the same |
| 17:37.28 | hannes_ | dob1: try "man htop" in your terminal, then press / to enter search mode, enter "time", hit enter to search. use "n" to go to the next result. it is a bit technical but the explanation might help you understand it better |
| 17:37.53 | hannes_ | ciphers should be perfect already, that is one part of the system i did not neglect over the years :) |
| 17:38.53 | greycat | I meant ssl_protocols and ssl_ciphers, but cool. If you've already turned off SSL 1.0 and similar, you're ahead of the game. |
| 17:39.29 | hannes_ | yeah i proudly did update that in the past |
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| 17:40.17 | ctcx | So while having gmail, IRC and others opened, I could also run Synaptic for update tasks without much danger? |
| 17:40.24 | greycat | Yes. |
| 17:40.41 | ctcx | Thanks |
| 17:41.50 | hannes_ | you might have firefox refusing to open new tabs if that updated in the background while you were using it but that's not a big issue |
| 17:42.33 | greycat | ctcx was being paranoid about a browser exploit somehow reaching through X11 or Wayland and taking control of other apps |
| 17:43.15 | hannes_ | ah ok |
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| 18:01.27 | Jonas_ | I just ran "apt full-upgrade" on my prod server and at 97% i wants an answer if i want to keep mariadb conffile. I type N and enter and i just get newlines it doesent take my no! |
| 18:01.51 | Jonas_ | Need seroius help |
| 18:02.01 | *** join/#debian dvs (~hibbard@cwv.teksavvy.com) |
| 18:04.25 | jelly | Jonas_, press Control-C |
| 18:04.52 | *** join/#debian phunyguy (~blaahchm@ubuntu/member/phunyguy) |
| 18:05.05 | jelly | Jonas_, and then try to continue with dpkg --configure --pending; apt -f install; apt full-upgrade |
| 18:05.08 | greycat | Or, just for grins, try pressing Ctrl-Q. Maybe you accidentally did a Ctrl-S earlier. |
| 18:05.16 | jelly | hah |
| 18:05.21 | Jonas_ | Nothing happens with Control-C |
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| 18:06.02 | jelly | or right, apt & children ignore SIGINT because reasons |
| 18:06.11 | jelly | Ctrl-Z ? |
| 18:06.33 | walters | what component creates /boot/efi ? |
| 18:06.41 | walters | (and where's the source for it?) |
| 18:06.42 | jelly | Jonas_, when you say newlines, does it mean empty lines are scrolling? |
| 18:06.42 | ratrace | ctrl-d? hey, it quits python shell and some other stuffs :) |
| 18:06.59 | Jonas_ | Ctrl-Z worked as usual. How do i continue then? |
| 18:07.04 | ratrace | fg |
| 18:07.23 | jelly | Jonas_, before doing fg, show us pstree -Apa $$ |
| 18:07.31 | jelly | in a pastebin |
| 18:07.39 | jelly | in that shell |
| 18:07.40 | ratrace | jelly: (you weren't serious about ctrl-z, were you? :) ) |
| 18:08.06 | greycat | why not? |
| 18:08.09 | jelly | ratrace, I was, that one signal is less interruptible than some others |
| 18:08.56 | Jonas_ | https://pastebin.com/WyFyuLH4 |
| 18:09.42 | Jonas_ | jelly yes new empty lines and all other text scrolls up |
| 18:09.45 | Ede|Popede | had to ping my modem yesterday to see if it was back up again. as usual it didn't return for a while, i did already C-z followed by a kill in the past |
| 18:10.28 | jelly | Jonas_, did you have a mysql database with some data before this? |
| 18:11.00 | Jonas_ | jelly yes |
| 18:11.37 | jelly | that /usr/bin/mysql_install_db invocation seems weird but maybe that's normal for a mariadb package upgrade |
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| 18:12.14 | jelly | nothing obvious to safely kill there |
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| 18:13.29 | jelly | ,v mariadb-server-10.3 |
| 18:13.30 | judd | Package: mariadb-server-10.3 on amd64 -- buster: 1:10.3.23-0+deb10u1; bullseye: 1:10.3.24-2; sid: 1:10.3.24-2 |
| 18:14.23 | afidegnum | hi, anyone care to assist on the SSL issue ? |
| 18:14.40 | dvs | !ask |
| 18:14.41 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
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| 18:16.15 | ratrace | afidegnum: how far did you get since this morning? |
| 18:16.29 | afidegnum | for the past 4 days, my server is down due to SSL issue, all configs seems to be correct so far, nginx, cert files, |
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| 18:16.39 | afidegnum | https://dpaste.org/NFsA |
| 18:16.49 | afidegnum | ratrace: i review the nginx configs, |
| 18:16.53 | greycat | "my server is down" is not an SSL issue. |
| 18:16.56 | afidegnum | i regenerated all the ssl configs |
| 18:17.03 | ratrace | afidegnum: did you create one simple server{} vhost, with no others, for a test case? |
| 18:17.26 | afidegnum | when i telnet the domain port, the connection drops |
| 18:17.33 | ratrace | you had a lot of vhosts there and it was hard to read and so many variables in it... so, you need just one simple test case, no php, nothing but a simple html hello world and a ssl setup for it. |
| 18:17.35 | afidegnum | ratrace: i couldn't create |
| 18:17.39 | ratrace | why not |
| 18:17.39 | greycat | you tried to telnet to port 53 ?!? |
| 18:17.52 | afidegnum | i telnet port 443 |
| 18:18.00 | greycat | so NOT the domain port. the https port. |
| 18:18.02 | ratrace | you can't telnet port 443, you need 4-way TLS handshake |
| 18:18.09 | Jonas_ | jelly if i run fg i get back to the install but i cant continue |
| 18:18.12 | ratrace | you _can_ telnet 3-way tcp handshaked port 80 |
| 18:18.46 | afidegnum | ratrace: how do i telnet it ? |
| 18:18.49 | ratrace | afidegnum: and you _can_ use openssl s_client to "telnet" to port 443 |
| 18:19.28 | afidegnum | this is what i'm having so far from this log, https://dpaste.org/NFsA |
| 18:19.30 | greycat | Jonas_: I would imagine that you make a rough guess of how long you should wait before you give up on it. When you feel it's time, go ahead and kill whatever mariadb process is the bottom-most leaf of the process tree. |
| 18:19.57 | ratrace | afidegnum: first things first, why can't you prepare ONE simple server{} vhost for testing? |
| 18:20.36 | afidegnum | vhost, on nginx ? |
| 18:21.02 | ratrace | afidegnum: sharing terminology. I'm talking about a server{} stanza, sometimes called vhost by Apache terms |
| 18:21.09 | afidegnum | yes, ok |
| 18:21.20 | ratrace | so.... ONE server{} stanza, nothing else, prepared with your cert, no other options, pure and simple, for test case |
| 18:21.24 | afidegnum | ok, in the nutshell, this issue is happeningon all the servers |
| 18:21.40 | afidegnum | i checked others and the same is happening there, |
| 18:21.41 | ratrace | start with one test case, and you can go on from there, after you pin point the main issue. |
| 18:21.50 | afidegnum | ok, let me try |
| 18:21.56 | afidegnum | creating an empty server |
| 18:22.24 | ratrace | you can have it return 404; doesn't matter, this is just a test to gete to some kind of valid nginx response. |
| 18:22.30 | ratrace | *get |
| 18:22.32 | afidegnum | ok |
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| 18:23.37 | ratrace | afidegnum: most importantly, your nginx.conf must no source anything else from conf.d or sites-enabled , or anywhere else. just ONE server{} in one http{} |
| 18:24.19 | afidegnum | oh, that's what i was doing |
| 18:24.24 | afidegnum | ok, let me see |
| 18:24.38 | hannes_ | jessie: check! |
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| 18:37.58 | Jonas_ | Greycat and jelly you saved me! I killed the last mysql process and the install script continued!! Many thanks! |
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| 18:39.13 | jelly | it's possible mysqld evne in its mariadb incarnation still fails to die and leaves processed behind so often |
| 18:40.15 | jelly | one would think moving to systemd with its cgroups isolation would make killing leftover process dead simple and easy and service definitions more robust |
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| 18:44.12 | ratrace | jelly: but is it configured that way? |
| 18:44.26 | ratrace | a lot of services on buster don't come fully taking advantage of systemd config options |
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| 18:44.37 | afidegnum | ratrace: http://paste.debian.net/1165322/ |
| 18:45.01 | afidegnum | line 18 |
| 18:45.13 | afidegnum | http://test.gsamx.cf/ |
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| 18:45.38 | ratrace | afidegnum: great. now convert that to :443 ssl, add directives for the cert and key, ssl on. reload nginx. |
| 18:45.57 | afidegnum | ok |
| 18:46.15 | dowwie | what webcam are debian users having good experiences with and would recommend? |
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| 18:50.51 | hannes_ | dowwie: prices are probably still insane but i always had great experiences with logitechs, i.e. Logitech C920 and its successors. widely used in linux-powered projects everywhere |
| 18:51.17 | dowwie | I'm looking at a C920 from target for 70 |
| 18:51.42 | dowwie | hannes_: this is helpful info, though -- thanks for confirming |
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| 18:51.56 | hannes_ | that's a good price, i would wholeheartily recommend it |
| 18:53.42 | afidegnum | ratrace: you are right, this is somehow strange, https://test.gsamx.cf/ |
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| 18:54.21 | ratrace | afidegnum: pastebin curl test please? |
| 18:55.57 | afidegnum | https://dpaste.org/DjbF |
| 18:56.39 | ratrace | afidegnum: right on, so it works. now, you have to enable one by one config file and site (server{}) until it fails |
| 18:57.02 | afidegnum | ok, |
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| 18:59.12 | jelly | ratrace, eh, replacing a buggy init script that I need to fix with a buggy unit that I need to fix doesn't seems like much of an improvement |
| 18:59.56 | ratrace | jelly: where's the bug tho. majority of issues I had was from bad distro defaults. all the units I wrote myself to full systemd functioanlity advantage, works as expected. |
| 19:00.18 | jelly | you had to write them yourself. |
| 19:00.20 | ratrace | (sure there were trials and errors and learning, but eventually...) |
| 19:00.29 | ratrace | jelly: because the maintainer broke it |
| 19:00.53 | ratrace | I'm all for pointing fingers, but lets be real here. systemd doesn't deserve the flak caused by maintaner decisions |
| 19:00.55 | jelly | you could have written init scripts yourself as well |
| 19:01.18 | ratrace | yes, I could. 10x more time spent and debugging around featureless monkeypatched shell scripts |
| 19:01.37 | jelly | after 20 scripts you spend a bit less |
| 19:01.40 | ratrace | you mentioned cgroups. I can already imagine the fun wrangling cgroups manually from shellscripts |
| 19:01.59 | jelly | I wrote socket polling dependency resolving init scripts. |
| 19:02.35 | ratrace | I'd ditch the complexity of systemd back to shell scripts if I could technically achieve the same functionality that I need, and I can't |
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| 19:03.00 | jelly | you know, an init script that returns 0 only when the service is actually UP |
| 19:03.21 | ratrace | you can do that with systemd units |
| 19:03.24 | jelly | rather than "I sent a signal so that something may be starting" |
| 19:03.43 | jelly | I can do it with both. |
| 19:04.16 | jelly | I don't WANT to have to do it with either. |
| 19:04.20 | ratrace | in my case, the functionality I can't do without systemd is named apparmor profiles and all the hardening options we have in units |
| 19:04.28 | ratrace | something like openrc for example can't do that. |
| 19:04.53 | ratrace | last time I checked, s6 couldn't either, but things may've changed since I last checked |
| 19:05.08 | jelly | s6 might be fine one day |
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| 19:05.41 | ratrace | a fully functional alternative to systemd would be awesome, yes. I dislike the complexity of systemd and developer attitude etc... but girl, that thing does the work! |
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| 19:07.30 | afidegnum | ratrace: wow, everything seems to be in order now, i have disabled other hosts inside conf.d and enabled isodec.org |
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| 19:08.25 | ratrace | afidegnum: yeah something in that convoluted spaghetti mess of certbot if($host) abomination and you mentioned a control panel adding its own..... something in there breaks everything. |
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| 19:09.49 | afidegnum | noted :) |
| 19:10.03 | afidegnum | now, moving back to CF |
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| 19:14.29 | whatsthecraic | hi there, how do I know if there is a firewall set? |
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| 19:15.15 | whatsthecraic | Debian 10 |
| 19:18.39 | afidegnum | ratrace: i nearly nuked my server, |
| 19:18.45 | sponix | whatsthecraic: Debian 10 has no firewall setup by default |
| 19:19.51 | jhutchins | whatsthecraic: Ask whoever built the server if they set one up. |
| 19:20.36 | whatsthecraic | I'm trying to connect to a VPS, the ssh connection times out. If it's not the firewall, what else can it be? |
| 19:20.37 | afidegnum | i mean wipe hte server |
| 19:21.07 | sponix | whatsthecraic: could be you don't even have sshd installed |
| 19:21.25 | sponix | OR, it is running on a non default port |
| 19:21.31 | ratrace | afidegnum: that's terrible. please be careful. |
| 19:21.33 | whatsthecraic | then the connection should be simply rejected |
| 19:21.36 | greycat | if sshd isn't installed, you would not get a timeout. you would get an immediate connection refused. |
| 19:21.55 | sponix | greycat: good point |
| 19:22.22 | greycat | if you can ping the box, but you get a timeout on ssh to port 22, then there *is* a firewall somewhere, but not necessarily on the Debian host |
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| 19:22.50 | sponix | whatsthecraic: ufw iptables and nft are the 3 ways I know firewall rules can be done that I am aware of on Debian 10 |
| 19:22.51 | ratrace | whatsthecraic: if there's firewall on the server, it's implemented either with nft or iptables frontend. iptables -L -n and nft list tables (and further listing tables for rules...) would show you that. you can't check like that if there's a firewall in front of the server though. |
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| 19:29.47 | jhutchins | whatsthecraic: The ssh client has a -v option that can tell you more about what's happening. It can be repeated up to 3 times for more detail (-vvv). |
| 19:30.20 | jhutchins | whatsthecraic: You can also use the nmap tool to determine what ports you can reach on the target. |
| 19:30.22 | greycat | you shouldn't need that to diagnose a timeout, though. just "telnet my.ip.add.ress 22" and watch. |
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| 19:31.26 | whatsthecraic | jhutchins: it's a straight timeout: https://gist.github.com/whatsthecraic/cfe19bbd29b1cf6bc9fa0b27df0ce799 |
| 19:31.30 | ratrace | (btw, systemd 243 and onward will be able to run bpf based network traffic filters, so that's one more native way) |
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| 19:32.06 | rocketmagnet | hi everyone |
| 19:32.12 | whatsthecraic | as greycat pointed out |
| 19:32.36 | rocketmagnet | how can i disable global keyboard shortcuts ? i need to disable "alt+mousemoveleft" so i can use blender properly |
| 19:32.56 | rocketmagnet | what's the tool to set the settings of my window system ? i'm using lightdm |
| 19:33.07 | greycat | lightdm is just the login screen |
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| 19:36.20 | rocketmagnet | how do i find the application that allow me to disable global keyboard shortcuts ? |
| 19:36.48 | rocketmagnet | there is an editor where you can settings like this.is.an.example | value |
| 19:36.59 | rocketmagnet | but i can't remember it's name |
| 19:37.05 | rocketmagnet | it's gtk |
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| 19:39.37 | Onyx47 | dconf editor? I think? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, been ages since I dealt with Gnome and derivatives in any extended capacity |
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| 19:55.57 | hannes_ | buster: check! |
| 19:56.52 | hannes_ | oops i skipped stretch, but no issues so far |
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| 20:07.49 | jelly | nooo everything will fail now |
| 20:08.02 | jelly | just you wait, hannes_, just you wait |
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| 20:09.00 | dvs | Armstrong will get you! |
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| 20:10.45 | hannes_ | yeah i regret my words already |
| 20:10.49 | hannes_ | but that's for another day |
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| 20:17.58 | hannes_ | hm, i skipped the mysql -> mariadb upgrade it seems =( |
| 20:19.35 | avri | I've setup a debian server on linode.com and registered a domain name with namecheap.com. I added the hostname to /etc/hosts and restarted the server. I added an A record for a custom server name in linode's DNS management panel. Running 'hostname -f' keeps showing linode's FQDN as li****.members.linode.com. I checked the DNS propagation and |
| 20:19.36 | avri | everything seems to be fine. What else do I need to do in debian to get the server to learn it has a new hostname? Should I modify resolv.conf? (it currently has search and domain set to members.linode.com, but I read it gets it from DHCP) |
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| 20:20.25 | greycat | debian gets the hostname from /etc/hostname |
| 20:20.42 | avri | so why does it not update for me? |
| 20:20.44 | jelly | !hostname |
| 20:20.44 | dpkg | Use «hostname foo» to set the hostname, $EDITOR /etc/hostname to set it for the next boot (create /etc/hostname if it does not exist) and $EDITOR /etc/hosts to set up local translations for a FQDN. See also 'man 1 hostname', or ask me about <mailname>. http://wiki.debian.org/HowTo/ChangeHostname |
| 20:21.04 | greycat | normally you'd reboot if you altered /etc/hostname, because there are a LOT of daemons out there that may have cached the old value |
| 20:21.31 | greycat | I don't know why people run "hostname -f" at all, ever, for any reason. |
| 20:21.32 | avri | I rebooted many times and it didn't have any effect |
| 20:21.42 | greycat | you run "hostname" and it says...? |
| 20:21.52 | jelly | if there's systemd, hostnamectl might be used and perhaps it saves the value somewhere else? |
| 20:22.03 | avri | li1**-** |
| 20:22.05 | jelly | (but I know it also reads it from the usual debian's place) |
| 20:22.13 | greycat | avri: and is that different from the content of /etc/hostname? |
| 20:22.24 | avri | yes |
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| 20:22.53 | jelly | avri, it is possible your hosting provider installs scripts that read and set hostname from a different source |
| 20:22.54 | avri | the domain name is members.linode.com |
| 20:23.02 | greycat | OK, see jelly's response, or maybe there's a "control panel" thing that's overriding your settings, or maybe it's not Debian. |
| 20:23.10 | greycat | the domain name is NOT relevant |
| 20:23.11 | jelly | so, maybe read linode's docs |
| 20:24.14 | avri | I read https://www.linode.com/docs/platform/manager/dns-manager/ |
| 20:24.43 | avri | and followed the steps, as well as searched google and read various forum Q and A |
| 20:24.51 | greycat | wonders what "dns-manager" has to do with /etc/hostname ... |
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| 20:25.28 | avri | they all seem to point to the fact that I need to have an A record in the DNS for the record I put in /etc/hosts |
| 20:25.39 | greycat | A records in DNS have NOTHING to do with the system's local hostname. |
| 20:26.02 | greycat | A system can have a dozen different DNS names in several different domains, and they might all be different from what's in "hostname". |
| 20:26.11 | jhutchins | avri: You might ask linode support about it. After all, you're paying them. |
| 20:26.18 | avri | also read this: https://www.linode.com/docs/tools-reference/basics/linux-system-administration-basics/ |
| 20:26.39 | avri | jhutchins: I guess you're right :/ |
| 20:26.44 | jhutchins | avri: How/where are you seeing the old hostname? |
| 20:27.05 | avri | it is the default hostname given to a linode node |
| 20:27.08 | greycat | good luck getting straight answers; appaerently the system's local hostname is classified |
| 20:27.22 | greycat | oh, it's a default name? that points toward DHCP... |
| 20:27.40 | greycat | (why would a DHCP assigned hostname be classified secret, though?) |
| 20:28.10 | ratrace | because in the past, if you knew linode internal number, you could haxx it. they had some big vulns there |
| 20:28.21 | greycat | :facepalm: |
| 20:28.25 | ratrace | I'm sure they fixed but..... once burned.... |
| 20:28.49 | ratrace | I left them not because they were haxxed, but because they kept denying it despite overwhelming evidence presented by members. |
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| 20:33.19 | greycat | If linode has some secret crap installed that sets the local hostname to a password that, if revealed, allows the system to be compromised, and cannot be overridden, then my strategy would be: ignore it completely. Just go on with your life having an ugly local hostname. |
| 20:33.30 | greycat | It has zero impact on anything except your shell prompt. |
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| 20:35.14 | avri | so running 'hostname server1' actually set my hostname - where did it make the change and why simply setting it in /etc/hosts didn't do the trick? |
| 20:35.39 | greycat | The local hostname exists in memory. That's all. It is supposed to come from /etc/hostname at boot but apparently your system is not regular Debian. |
| 20:35.52 | avri | hmm |
| 20:35.57 | greycat | It has NO EFFECT on ANYTHING. It's just shown in shell prompts so you know which box you're on. |
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| 20:36.26 | greycat | Some things might write it to log files, or something. |
| 20:36.40 | avri | well... as long as it showed me the old values I figured something must be broken and needs fixing |
| 20:37.11 | avri | I expected the value to change once I modified /etc/hosts and rebooted |
| 20:37.23 | greycat | It's not read from /etc/hosts. |
| 20:37.53 | chriswitt | hello i have trouble using looks with uuid like i already did on another machine. blkid doesn list the device. cryptsetup luksUUID /dev/sdb gives me the uuid. but when i try to use it with cryptsetup luksOpen UUID=6... name i get the error that the uuid is not present in /dev/disk/by-uuid/ |
| 20:40.16 | jelly | chriswitt, so what _is_ present in /dev/disk/by-uuid/ ? |
| 20:40.42 | chriswitt | jelly, other disks but not the ones i need :( |
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| 20:40.51 | Franciman | Hi |
| 20:41.21 | avri | greycat: where is does gethostname() get its value from? |
| 20:41.34 | greycat | from the kernel |
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| 20:41.48 | avri | and the kernel gets it from? |
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| 20:42.17 | greycat | IN DEBIAN, it is set by reading the file named /etc/hostnam at boot time. We have established that your system is not Debian though. At least not in this respect. |
| 20:42.24 | greycat | /etc/hostname* |
| 20:42.49 | greycat | jelly also said there's a systemd alternative thing that may be in use |
| 20:43.02 | greycat | because obviously systemd has to have its tentacles in this, too |
| 20:43.03 | avri | contents of my /etc/hostname is set to "localhost" |
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| 20:46.23 | ratrace | systemd's hostnamectl is just dbus api |
| 20:46.45 | greycat | I have no idea what that sentence means. :( |
| 20:47.08 | ratrace | it's just dbus based api to set /etc/hostname |
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| 20:47.39 | greycat | There's an interesting tidbit in hostnamectl(1): "If a static hostname is set, and is valid (something other than localhost), then the transient hostname is not used." |
| 20:47.39 | ratrace | hostnamectl binary, is using dbus to change and query hostname and other host name-ish bits |
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| 20:48.14 | greycat | apparently "localhost" is a special value here, and earlier, you (avri) stated that you had edited /etc/hostname yourself, but... |
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| 20:48.30 | ratrace | so the "tentacles" are just an api based on good ol' unixy /etc/hostname |
| 20:48.35 | Franciman | Hi, I don't know if any of my messages got through |
| 20:48.46 | Franciman | because the network went off AGAIN GRR |
| 20:49.08 | ratrace | you said "Hi" and then disconnected |
| 20:49.39 | greycat | so, hostnamectl is redundant on Debian, unless the special value "localhost" is in the file? |
| 20:49.40 | Franciman | ok I have a strange issue with network connection. I configured my wlan interface through /etc/network/interfaces and wpa_supplicant |
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| 20:49.58 | Franciman | for 5 days I had no problem. Now today I have this issue: |
| 20:50.20 | Franciman | I start the pc, everything works fine, at some point I am not connected |
| 20:50.20 | ratrace | greycat: "yes, but" |
| 20:50.38 | Franciman | but notice that everything says that I'm still connected to the WiFi (and the WiFi works) |
| 20:50.49 | Franciman | so what the heck is happening? |
| 20:51.05 | jhutchins | Franciman: Welcome to wifi. |
| 20:51.17 | Franciman | lol |
| 20:51.23 | Franciman | but is there a way I can debug what's happening? |
| 20:51.44 | ratrace | Franciman: chances are you're missing firmware |
| 20:51.51 | Franciman | I installed it |
| 20:52.01 | Franciman | firmware-athreus |
| 20:52.16 | Franciman | atheros* |
| 20:52.21 | ratrace | Franciman: so what is "everything" and how does it say you're still connected, but you aren't and how do you know you aren't |
| 20:52.22 | Franciman | (I have a dell xps 13 9380) |
| 20:52.35 | jhutchins | ratrace: He wouldn't have had the connection for five days if he was missing firmware. |
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| 20:52.41 | Franciman | ok, I run ip a |
| 20:52.57 | ratrace | jhutchins: not necessarily. missing firmware could exhibit unexplained disconnects |
| 20:52.59 | Franciman | and the interface is UP and has its IP address and its IPV6 address |
| 20:53.12 | Franciman | dhclient says that it already started |
| 20:53.34 | Franciman | wpa_supplicant doesn't show errors |
| 20:53.40 | Franciman | and the i3statusbar says I'm connected :P |
| 20:53.48 | jhutchins | ratrace: No, firmware either works or it doesn't. There's no 'performance enhancement'. |
| 20:53.58 | ratrace | not in my experience |
| 20:54.27 | Franciman | (one thing to notice is that today I installed libreoffice and transmission-qt) |
| 20:54.33 | jhutchins | It's not like nouveau vs. radeon drivers. |
| 20:55.01 | ratrace | jhutchins: so you're saying if there's firmware missing (and logged as such by the kernel), the nic wouldn't work? |
| 20:55.18 | jhutchins | Franciman: office wouldn't affect the connection, transmission might. |
| 20:55.26 | jhutchins | ratrace: Right. |
| 20:55.33 | Franciman | I purged it and its dependencies |
| 20:55.40 | Franciman | but the problem persists |
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| 20:55.43 | rocketmagnet | gn8 |
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| 20:55.52 | ratrace | jhutchins: I wouldn't be here now if that was the case. my rtl8169 has no firmware installed, kernel's complaining and yet I'm here :) |
| 20:55.53 | jhutchins | Franciman: What do the logs say? |
| 20:55.58 | Franciman | logs of ? |
| 20:56.06 | Franciman | dmesg doesn't say anything |
| 20:56.16 | ratrace | and I've seen that behavior with a few other nics too, at least one wifi |
| 20:56.37 | jhutchins | Intel t1000. |
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| 20:57.29 | jhutchins | ratrace: Sometimes the firmware is for other features on the chipset like bluetooth. |
| 20:57.41 | joepublic | rtl8169 is not, so far as I know, wifi |
| 20:57.52 | ratrace | yeah it's ethernet |
| 20:58.17 | ratrace | but... just... saying the statement about firmware is wrong :) |
| 20:58.59 | Franciman | is it possible that two network management software are competing? |
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| 20:59.04 | Franciman | softwares* |
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| 21:00.29 | Franciman | if I don't start Xorg and use gui software it seems to not disconnect |
| 21:00.46 | ratrace | Franciman: check the journal. wpa_supplicant _should_ complain about dropped connections. I can't remember if it's all kern facility or userland too |
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| 21:01.25 | Franciman | no, it only said: Starting WPA supplicant. Started WPA supplicant. |
| 21:01.30 | Franciman | I checked it |
| 21:02.42 | ratrace | Franciman: you haven't explained how you see it's not connected. you said the nic was up, dhclient running, wpa_supplicant not showing errors, so what's the actual symptom? |
| 21:02.46 | Franciman | ah sorry |
| 21:02.48 | Franciman | well |
| 21:02.52 | Franciman | hexchat disconnects |
| 21:03.02 | Franciman | and if I do ping -c 3 gnu.org |
| 21:03.10 | Franciman | it says: name temporarily not resolvable |
| 21:03.11 | Franciman | AND |
| 21:03.14 | ratrace | could there be a problem elsewhere in the network? access point? some other router? |
| 21:03.16 | Franciman | if I do ping -c 3 8.8.8.8 |
| 21:03.27 | Franciman | it says |
| 21:03.29 | Franciman | wait |
| 21:03.31 | ratrace | !enter |
| 21:03.31 | dpkg | The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel. |
| 21:03.31 | Franciman | I saved the mssage |
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| 21:03.45 | Franciman | yes sorry I have OCD |
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| 21:03.55 | Franciman | i'll try to be less enter-friendly :P |
| 21:03.56 | ratrace | Franciman: it probably says no route to host blah blah.... can you ping your gateway then? |
| 21:04.33 | Franciman | let me try to reproduce the error |
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| 21:06.42 | Franciman | could there be a problem elsewhere in the network? access point? some other router? <- no |
| 21:07.20 | Franciman | ratrace wait I can't reproduce the problem now. But it will happen I know it will |
| 21:07.54 | ratrace | Franciman: so you couldn't ping even your gateway ? |
| 21:08.01 | Franciman | I did not try |
| 21:08.08 | jhutchins | ratrace: My statement was only regarding wifi, that it either works or doesn't. |
| 21:08.16 | ratrace | but then you can't categorically state there's no problem elsewhere in the network (outside your NIC) |
| 21:08.33 | Franciman | ah yes, because I can correctly navigate from other devices |
| 21:08.52 | ratrace | that does not exclude your router losing mappings for your MAC addr |
| 21:09.02 | ratrace | ie. you can't be 100% sure it's not router issue |
| 21:09.21 | Franciman | ok, but I find it unlikely. I should try to ping my gateway to rule it out? |
| 21:09.24 | ratrace | I've seen cheap routers forget NAT translations for some IPs. so some IPs could ping out, some couldn't |
| 21:09.28 | jhutchins | wifi connections/disconnects are usually clearly logged in dmesg. |
| 21:09.41 | ratrace | ^ |
| 21:09.59 | Franciman | it is not. Ah one quirck is that now I see the ip address change from an ipv6 address to an ipv4 |
| 21:10.17 | Franciman | right at the beginning. When I login |
| 21:10.30 | Franciman | maybe there is some ipv4/ipv6 issue? |
| 21:10.50 | ratrace | possibly. that's why you need full analysis when it happens |
| 21:11.37 | Franciman | eheh of course now the problem won't show |
| 21:12.19 | ratrace | Franciman: "I should try to ping my gateway to rule it out" :: if you can ping your gateway but not outside, that's strong indication of the gateway issue. sure, you can "somehow" lose the default route, so your kernel knows how to ping the gateway but doesn't know where to route everything else |
| 21:12.34 | ratrace | but again, you need the full range of tests |
| 21:13.28 | Franciman | I'm sorry but now it does not happen |
| 21:13.52 | ratrace | well, you know what to do if/when it does :) |
| 21:14.25 | Franciman | how can I find my gateway? |
| 21:14.41 | jhutchins | Franciman: WHo's your provider? |
| 21:14.43 | greycat | ip r |
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| 21:14.59 | ratrace | usually "default via" section of `ip r` |
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| 21:15.10 | Franciman | I see this: |
| 21:15.16 | jhutchins | !paste |
| 21:15.17 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
| 21:15.25 | Franciman | yes it's two lines ahah |
| 21:15.30 | ratrace | jhutchins: lolthatwasfast :) |
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| 21:15.41 | Franciman | 169.254.0.0/16 wlp2s0 scope link metric 1000 |
| 21:15.55 | Franciman | 192.168.1.0/24 wlp2s0 proto kernel scope link src 192.168.1.179 |
| 21:16.08 | greycat | that 169.254 is one of those mdns or avahi things, right? |
| 21:16.26 | ratrace | it's a link local addr methinks |
| 21:16.32 | greycat | in any case, you appear not to have a default gateway at all, which is really weird |
| 21:16.47 | Franciman | Franciman: WHo's your provider? <- jhutchins my ISP? Telecom Italia |
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| 21:17.33 | ratrace | link local would be set if an attempt to obtain a routable IP fails, in some cases, but I'm not sure which ones (esp since there's apparently routable 192.168.1.179) |
| 21:17.34 | jhutchins | Franciman: Ah, different. I've had some problems loosing ipv4 lately. Have to reset modem/router/PCs. |
| 21:18.35 | ratrace | Franciman: so if those two lines are all you get from `ip r`, it's possible you can route the gateway but not outside, and something's wrong on your machine as there's no default route, AND there's a link local IP set |
| 21:18.36 | Franciman | well, I'm PRETTY sure it's something in my debian config that is wrong |
| 21:18.44 | ratrace | you can *ping the gateway |
| 21:19.04 | Franciman | maybe I should use network manager, since I'm a noob |
| 21:19.06 | greycat | how does that system even communicate with the outside world without a default route? |
| 21:19.10 | dotcom | Franciman: what do you see when you type ' ip r | head -n 2 ' |
| 21:19.26 | ratrace | greycat: oh good catch, that's the computer they're currently on, right? |
| 21:19.39 | greycat | I have no idea, but I believe they pasted that, not retyped it |
| 21:19.46 | Franciman | ah dotcom I see: default via 192.168.1.1 dev wlp2s0 |
| 21:19.54 | dotcom | Franciman: ping that |
| 21:19.55 | Franciman | oh gosh sorry :P |
| 21:19.55 | greycat | ... why didn't you paste that |
| 21:20.05 | Franciman | I totally didn't see it. God, sorry |
| 21:20.13 | dotcom | np |
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| 21:46.47 | dotcom | greycat: ratrace didnt mean to steal anyones thunder, just thought i could help clarify the default route for Franciman |
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